The Incomparable

00:00:03 ◼   ► the incomparable number 244 April 2015 [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► uncomfortable i am your host Jason [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► Snelling we're here for another edition [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► of our comic book club we're talking [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► about to limited series 414 Marvel one [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► from DC they're both from the [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► mid-nineties ish both feature art by [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► alex ross I I stopped reading comics [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► after watchman came out because i [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► thought like suddenly all other comics [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► were just about a a pale imitation of [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► the greatness that was watchman and I i [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► also what was going to college and we [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► wanted to pretend that I wasn't act like [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► I wasn't a comic book reader and I [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► didn't know the detailed history of [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► everybody was in the x-men so I in the [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► mid-nineties i discovered marvels on a [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► bookshelf at a at a bookstore on on the [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► shelf and I saw it and I thought oh wow [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► that looks really cool I'm i bought it [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► and that was essentially my reentry in [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► very slowly but that was my reentry into [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► the comics world and a year or two later [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► I saw kingdom come on the understand at [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► a bookstore and we had bookstores they [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► were still in business back in the 20th [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► century and uh and i bought it two and [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► was a it's a very different kind of [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► story from Marvel's but also really [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► interesting same art obviously in that [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► this is alex ross or at least the same [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► artist and a story the likes of which I [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► did not expect from DC comics so I think [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► these are really interesting books that [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► are from other of a time and their of an [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► artist and I think they're worth talking [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► about and you can pick them up and read [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► them because they're self-contained [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► which is also really nice let me [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► introduce the people who are going to [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► talk about this stuff with me tonight [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► Lisa Schmeisser of course always here [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► for comic book club hi Lisa [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► hi it's a pleasure to be here all we [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► have a big big crowd for this comic book [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► club which is great chipset earth is out [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► there hi chip [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► hi Jason hi Lisa hi everybody this hello [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► Jon boy Monty actually also out there hi [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► Monty hi Jason and Lisa and chip [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► ok let's see if we can do this Moises [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► Sierra Leone is out there [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► I'm boys is Jason how are we going to [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► handle all of the truth and justice in [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► these comics I I can't handle the truth [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► but i can't believe it [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► but if it can happen justice stuff so [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► that's okay and and who did I forget [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► perhaps it's erica inside maybe maybe [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► open right [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► confirmed it is Erica and sign hello [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► hello I'm happy to be here and be your [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► non-expert comic book reader that's a [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► that you know as i read kingdom come [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► and I realized that the footnotes are [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► flying right by me and I can't [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► understand a single one of them i had 1i [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► haven't noticed there's there's a whole [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► set of annotations for kingdom come if [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► you want to read it there's somebody who [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► is painstakingly detailed every panel [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► against every sick so you can get every [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► single one of the younger the easter [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► eggs give you one example that why is [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► there a giant penny in the Batcave [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► well there's a reason i don't care what [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► the reason is there's a reason reversion [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► of the Batcave and lost your mind [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► that was easy it's sugar and spice being [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► in a panel that doesn't make any sense [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► one of the biggest arguments for in the [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► annotations is without them I would not [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► have realized that zan and jayna are now [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► waiters at at the local superhero dive [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► bar or that the village people became [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► and superheroes looking at my 1997 [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► vintage trade paperback of kingdom come [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► doesn't all these these footnotes you're [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► talking about on the internet you have [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► to know it has to [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► yeah you're deciding between your screen [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► and and you're in your trade paperback [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► as it were [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► marvel's house wives yeah yeah yeah its [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► current electricity you really want to [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► nerd out I'm I'd and I don't he said I'd [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► probably about five gasps yes indeed one [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► of the reasons I picked these books for [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► the comic book club is because to me [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► they're kind of the flip side of the [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► same question which is what does it mean [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► to live in a world that has both [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► superpowers drill and immortal people [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► and kingdom come [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► tackles this theme from the angle of [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► what are your rights and [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► responsibilities as a superpower being [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► who are you accountable to and marvels [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► tackles it from the angle of what are [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► your rights and responsibilities as a [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► human being when literally the next [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► generation of sentient beings to walk [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► the earth is is busy bursting into [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► flames or or or being x-men or being [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► spider-man all around you so yes the [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► first time you mentioned both is a crime [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► the old guy pretty much off the [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► protective well there's a lot there's a [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► lot of systematically similar about them [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► but there's enough about their approach [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► that's just different enough because one [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► of the things i find fascinating about [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► kingdom come [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► is how heavily weighed in ross mind back [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► catalogues and use them to create a [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► whole raft of new characters and and [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► they essentially invent like a third of [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► the characters in this book are [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► essentially invented a whole cloth with [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► them extrapolating at these characters [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► had kids without this is what they are [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► whereas in Marvel's it's kind of a love [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► letter to Marvel's creative history and [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► and it ends on I find actually have [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► something faintly unsettling note [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► Oh seriously yeah it's it gives you know [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► if you read the two of them like kingdom [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► comes this real catharsis and and by the [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► end of it you can almost see like a [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► freeze frame and then some nineteen [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► eighties ballot will start the credits [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► begin to roll but like Marvel to get the [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► last two pages and like whole whoa yeah [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► this this is happening that's it that's [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► really i think that's also really [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► implementing of the place that both [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► publishers were when these things were [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► coming out DC has always been you know [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► the the gods among us the hall and [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► wonder that sort of thing [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► marvel's always been grounded in reality [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► grounded in New York and things like [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► that so in in in these comics you've got [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► Marvel's which is all which is basically [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► human humans I've you story and Kingdom [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► Come which is a little bit less so [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► because we've got a lot more scenes with [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► those superheroes and things like that [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► so I i see them as representing what [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► each company was trying to do with their [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► comics at the time just done in this [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► amazingly heightened way that only alex [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► ross can do I mean he's the norman [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► rockwell of comics let's start with [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► Marvel's and we'll talk about about [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► these both intern marble marble skirt [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► boosie boo [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► music music music music rai ziac that [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► will conquer Kurt which its promise okay [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► k stands for quality they busiek and [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► Ross made this this this story that is a [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► beautiful piece of art i would say for [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► one but basically marvels [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► for those who don't know is a [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► essentially it's a retelling of some of [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► the core stories from the early years of [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► the marvel universe as seen through the [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► eyes of a photographer or I of the [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► photography I later at yes uh of a [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► photographer through the lens Wednesday [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► of the photographer who is taking [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► pictures of superhumans and in fact [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► creates a book of his photography called [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► Marvel's group whose cover is a mirror [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► image of the cover that we have on the [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► trade paperback of Marvel's this is a [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► four-issue miniseries from Marvel and [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► it's beautiful and it really is a [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► retelling of these major milestones from [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► the initial emergence of the classic [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► marvel heroes before the marvel universe [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► of the human torch and and the [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► Submariner to the emergence of the [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► Fantastic Four the x-men and spider-man [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► the appearance of Galactus all the way [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► through to the death of Gwen Stacy so [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► it's very much about continuity and [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► comic book history but the idea of [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► weaving all of these wild superhero [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► stories together in art that is that is [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► very realistic and with a with the [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► viewpoint always being that of the [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► humans the normal humans who are living [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► in this in this outsized world and I i [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► think i think we should we should start [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► there I I anybody let's let the artist [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► thing that drew me to it I caught my eye [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► I flipped through it and i bought it and [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► I read it and it is it is beautiful i [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► mean i don't know the history of alex [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► ross although I i can spot his work now [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► because it is alex ross once you've [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► developed by for roster like oh wait [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► there in areas but it is it is [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► spectacular and and his takes on these [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► Marvel these classic marvel heroes i [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► like the fact that all i knew it just [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► enough about marvel that I knew what [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► these stories were and I could recognize [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► the people a but you know only the broad [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► strokes and then he's telling us the [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► details from this one character's [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► perspective one of the things I really [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► love about the art is how insanely [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► period-specific he is because he moves [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► all the way from the late thirties to [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► the late 1960s [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► and he's following the same group of [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► characters and you can see the clothes [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► begin to shift over time since you can [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► see how hairdo shift the protagonist [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► wife especially they do a wonderful job [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► moving her from being a war bride to a [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► polyester pantsuit cloud housewife of [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► the nineteen seventies and it's it's [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► plausible and it's believable and you [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► can see the ghost of the woman she was [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► in the thirties and forties so I love [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► that are one of the biggest easter eggs [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► in my opinion in his art is if you look [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► at gwen stacy it seems to be modeled [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► after the actress Sheryl Lee and its [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► lower Pole [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► yeah it's laura palmer and there's a lot [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► of Laura Palmer image imagery especially [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► when she's got the water following [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► hundred face and she's smiling and she's [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► on the world and what I always enjoys [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► how seamlessly he he weaves in people [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► who he whose faces he's obviously [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► inspired by and how he can age people up [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► to age them down and put them in a wide [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► variety of different situations it's [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► just a beautiful book to look at you get [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► Edwin Newman in there a one-point which [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► also makes me laugh NBC News anchor [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► Edwin Newman I one of the things that I [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► i find fascinating about marbles is you [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► know that they have this is sliding [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► timescale thing that happens in [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► comic-book continuity Marvel's premise [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► is when the comics written is when [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► things happened [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► yeah and so it is a locked in time the [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► they all emerged in the sixties 45 to [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► set the Submariner and one regular [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► originally namely the timely comics [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► right you're 30 and 40 and then they [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► have to America story from world war two [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► and then everything else from the marvel [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► universe was in that the Lenalee Kirby [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► did coke period in the sixties and then [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► forward forward into the early seventies [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► and that's the so it's all period piece [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► which i really like i like the idea that [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► they're like this is when the stories to [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► resist a history there's no great [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► economy exactly we're gonna tell it like [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► like it is and in the in the back matter [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► he a music it imagines that you know [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► this is all happening simultaneously and [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► he said as he did the research he [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► realized he could weave this stuff [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► together as if it was all happening [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► simultaneously which is kind of a neat [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► neat trick but anyway that not not to [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► not to derail what you were saying Lisa [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► but i just-i I think the period detail [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► is fantastic and and the fact that it's [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► based on when these stories were told [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► that these are 60 [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► stories happening in the sixties not you [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► know mapped into the nineties or [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► something like they could have been I i [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► think that's really important actually [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► and it reflects it actually reflects the [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► way marvel comics was back when these [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► stories were being produced because the [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► sliding timescale came in later and but [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► initially they were almost doing [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► storytelling in real time Peter Parker's [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► a sophomore in high school when amazing [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► fantasy comes out and then a couple of [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► years later he's graduated from high [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► school in real-time practically and then [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► somewhere along the way I think they [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► decided that it's time to get it's time [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► to go with the simpsons model it's time [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► to say that everything that fantastic [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► four number-one happened 10 or 15 years [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► ago regardless of wind right but yeah [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► your point your point is great Jason [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► that this is this is a love letter not [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► only to the old Marvel stories but to [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► the way the old Marvel stories were told [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► something important historically in the [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► the world of music is that this was [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► really his big breakout work as a writer [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► he had been an editor for Marvel writing [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► for Marvel Age which is something that I [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► love picking up back issues of when I [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► was a kid and in in doing the process of [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► the research for this project I think [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► foundationally a lot of what he would [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► bring to other projects like his runs on [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► Avengers and various things that he [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► saved from the clutches of the Marvel [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► bankruptcy era when it was really [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► circling the drain creatively and [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► financially a lot of as big of a comics [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► lovers he already was feelin Marvel's as [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► a historical project is something that [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► really they're really opened up the [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► possibilities what he would be able to [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► do as a creative going beyond the [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► editorial roller marvel it's easy to say [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► but both of these things but especially [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► marvels is it's a love letter continuity [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► you could you could even do ride it as [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► being continuity porn it is literally [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► like what if we stitched everything [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► together and sew it all happen at once [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► but the great thing is you don't have to [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► know all the cognitive it stands by [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► itself though so I'm [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► not so sure about that it's got great [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► bones though because so many of the [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► classic panels turn out to have been [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► pictures he took yeah that's true it is [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► a beautiful conceit right having of the [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► this be the chronicler of the Marvel [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► Universe and him having these amazing [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► shot those are great moment where he [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► scoffs at Peter Parker the stupid kid [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► photographers yeah yeah yeah stupid mean [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► pictures that's better than a couple [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► times [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► oh yeah he rolls his eyes at youngjae [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► jonah Jameson for saying when i run the [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► bugle yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah so Erica [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► had you read this before and do you have [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► much background in the stuff for you [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► somebody who is coming to a a [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► celebration of continuity from a place [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► of not really knowing the continuity got [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► that last one yeah it was ok so so tell [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► me about that i've read a very few very [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► few issues of things in the Marvel [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► Universe but i think it was that must [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► have been all stuff that was either not [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► included here after this because i think [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► i read some powers and yeah this is and [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► all of alias which i loved i think this [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► i think this story essential with other [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► than the last couple of pages the story [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► essentially ends with Gwen Stacy guys [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► that's like what 1974 something like [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► that that that's about right [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► if it's your only off by maybe a year [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► yeah it is really it's the early to [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► mid-70s oh it's a long time ago when the [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► story kind of grinds to a halt [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► so whatever the day three so what did [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► you think of my knowledge [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► you know you can't live in the United [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► States for most of your life without [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► picking up and kind of knowing who some [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► of these characters are so I had heard [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► of the human torch and I know that the [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► Fantastic Four is a thing but i have no [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► idea who those four are or what they do [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► of course that's fantastic though we'll [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► we'll which human torture you told me [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► yes there's the originally they were due [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► to human torch's well I know about this [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► one because that's the 1i read [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► previously i had heard the words human [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► and torch put together but that's about [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► so you didn't notice that there were in [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► fact two different human torch's just in [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► Marvel's this is true home meet okay not [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► the synthetic human torch at the [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► beginning is not the same as the one [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► who's in the Fantastic Four believe it [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► or not [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► and I guess I didn't even really catch [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► that there was it now [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► ok now it's coming back to me that there [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► was a human torch in fantastic four so [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► so Erica doesn't did this story makes [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► sense at all did it was a pocket of to [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► you or was it just like a i'm really [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► curious or ordered it being no sense and [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► was kind of pointless so what how would [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► you get out of it it made great sense to [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► me [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► i I've totally understood i I don't I [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► know that I didn't catch every last [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► little bit and piece you guys got way [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► more depth out of it than I did but even [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► just on the surface it is it is a [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► beautifully told story and it's got that [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► thing that I just love even if i don't [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► know a property I still sometimes just [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► like dipping into the celebratory works [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► of that property so anniversary special [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► of something like when I was young and [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► watching the five doctors i had no idea [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► about most of the stuff that happened in [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► the thing 25 years prepped for 20 years [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► previous to that but i still really love [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► the heck out of it because it was clear [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► that there is a bunch of history that i [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► didn't know about yet and that [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► tantalizes me and makes me more [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► interested in a work so i could tell [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► that there were plenty of gaps in my [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► knowledge but it was just this great [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► sort of nostalgic hug to marvel in [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► general and that just it made me feel [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► warm and fuzzy like i was i was coming [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► into something really late but it was [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► something where everybody is celebrating [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► and I just wanted to be in on the party [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► well I'm coming from that at this from [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► almost the exact opposite perspective [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► when i was when i was really in the [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► Marvel Comics I was painfully into [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► marvel comics I was a footnote reader i [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► was a subscriber to marvel saga Marvel [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► saga which was a series that was [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► basically text pieces with isolated [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► panels that tried to tell the history of [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► every single marvel comic ever produced [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► and putting them all in story [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► chronological order so i should be prime [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► I should be the prime audience for [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► Marvel's because it basically is like [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► Marvel saga with a story i have [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► recovered somewhat uh it's yeah I I was [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► not I did not see I did not seek out the [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► footnotes for either of these of [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► I'm rereading them and I remember how [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► much I used to care about the cottony [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► continuity details of the submariners [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► latest attack on New York and things [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► like that and i think that Marvel's [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► probably relies on that continuity a [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► little too much for my taste [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► I didn't get the same nostalgic feeling [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► that Erica had I was I was like okay I'm [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► a little separated from this stuff now [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► is this hitting me emotionally and it [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► didn't quite so much anymore and i think [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► it relies a little bit on that sort of [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► love the Marvel Universe more than it [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► should interesting so it don't tell me [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► more about that i mean i hit me just [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► right where I think I feel like I knew [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► just enough without knowing enough with [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► the footnote details that it just kind [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► of washed over me and I felt that same [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► kind of warm fuzzy feeling is Erica [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► where I'm like oh yes these are like I [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► konechno Galactus and spider-man and [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► Gwen Stacy and all of that without like [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► marinating in the details a minute maybe [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► maybe it's just because I knew too much [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► and I was embarrassed by it because if i [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► had forgotten that I knew who Betty Dene [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► was Betty Dene the girlfriend of the [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► Submariner back in the day and then she [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► shows up again and I remember and I i'm [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► actually I'm actually a little [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► embarrassed that I know who she was and [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► I'm embarrassed that I'm being fan [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► serviced this podcast is over [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► no no I i had Jerry you chip no III is [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► not being a comic book fan is I i am [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► amazed at at the level of detail I i [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► searched for the kingdom come [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► annotations which are out there and I [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► search for Marvel's annotations because [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► they're actually footnotes in the back [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► and there is a marvel sanitation don't [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► Google the marbles annotation on the [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► internet challenges it's a terrible it's [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► like worse than the one that's in the [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► book there's like yeah I guess there's [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► some stuff from the old Marvel honestly [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► have no idea what's going on so I come [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► on Marvel fans up your game a little bit [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► but but the footnotes and marvels pretty [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► good but they're both wrote that there [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► is a layer to both of these things that [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► is going to reward the gigantic nerd who [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► remembers all that continuity and knows [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► that oh that's a reference to that and I [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► i think that's one of the questions [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► about both of these is can they be [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► enjoyed as works on their own air [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► it seems to say yes oh and and what ship [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► says I almost am starting to wonder now [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► if they can be enjoyed more if you don't [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► know too much about them versus not [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► enough which is make sorry to maybe [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► maybe there's a middle ground actually [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► maybe maybe it works for Erica because [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► she's not been introduced to the [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► minutiae maybe it works for somebody [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► who's still marinating it in it and then [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► there's me sort of in this ambivalent [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► middle stage and i'm having trouble [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► following the story of Phil Sheldon and [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► all that stuff because I'm really [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► engaging with this continuity that used [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► to be important to me and it's not if I [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► could throw in a weird [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► middle middle ground I discovered [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► Marvel's in 1994 as as a youth as a [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► youth I don't know how what is [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► yeah you know one of these miscreants [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► youths it's historically in the world of [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► Marvel events and cool things and all [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► that kind of stuff [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► it follows the trilogy of infinity [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► crossovers Infinity Gauntlet definitely [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► infinity war infinity crusade and I was [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► getting heavily into comics around then [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► and confused by a bunch of that kind of [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► stuff i like some of it and other parts [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► of it drove me totally crazy and then [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► when I got to Marvel's there was stuff [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► that rang a little bit familiar there [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► were bits and pieces of things I you [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► know I knew who the Submariner was I [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► didn't know that much about him I knew [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► he existed and he had wings on his feet [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► and a super-powered speedo I knew about [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► spider-man I knew about various [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► characters that that show up but then [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► there were others like I i eventually [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► figured out and I was confused at first [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► too i thought there was just the one [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► human torch but no there were two human [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► torch's and then I wanted to know about [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► this first human torch i never heard [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► about and I want to know about this [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► character in that character that I've [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► never heard about and it was also get [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► this itself was alex ross his big break [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► into comics coming from a background of [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► the mother is a commercial artist and [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► himself admiring the living daylights [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► out of people like George Peres who by [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► then was very well-known [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► 44 work on on both the both the actual [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► actually at that time I think was mostly [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► DC stuff it would come later that his [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► big Marvel Avengers stuff would come [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► that burning rights and he was big fan [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► of bernie wrightson to he was he was [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► influenced by both the commercial art [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► Norman Rockwell side of things as well [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► as the pop art comic-book sort of thing [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► and in the way that this red introduced [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► a a different feel for comics language [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► that people were used to wear it was [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► lineart with splash color and here there [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► is there is this greater the depth to [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► the imagery there was this piano [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► painterly quality to it that I just have [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► never seen I hadn't read Watchmen at [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► this point even though [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► yeah it had been out for almost 10 years [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► marvel's for me redefined what I [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► conceived as possible within the [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► comic-book form and I think this is what [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► it was this around the time that that [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► Scott McLeod's understanding comics came [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► out I think it's a little earlier than [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► that that was no understand comics was [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► 93 so this is what a cone or is Right [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► couple yeah this is yeah this is [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► actually this was 94 94 was Marvel so [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► this is just the year after and I [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► remember I remember rather clearly [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► around the same general hazy time in my [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► past discovery marvels and Kingdom calm [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► and understanding comics all in the same [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► breath and I was then then I I gained my [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► full powers as the nerd in high school [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► saying no there is a greater level at [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► which comics can tell stories that's [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► like AP comics is what you did there you [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► just said to the entire curriculum for [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► AP comics Advanced Placement common sure [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► i read this stuff about how mark waid [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► who wrote the other one studying comics [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► character back stories and righting [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► himself file cards as a kid and he had [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► these no card boxes full of stuff that [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► he actually pulled from with his new [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► shield series that's out there and I [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► found myself doing a less dedicated [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► version of that mark was the a student I [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► was the like b+ b-minus student [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► ok so I the effort for me it it it [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► engendered this hunger for finding out [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► who all these characters were and I [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► didn't have the benefit of footnotes [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► with [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► with either one of these so it was kind [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► of limited to what I could find at the [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► comic shop or what I could ask the guy [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► with the ready ponytail to show me that [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► he would ensue [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► well I don't know if you really want to [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► read the half and then you'd actually go [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► pull off the shelf or so for me what it [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► is I think what did as somebody who had [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► sort of stopped reading comics is it [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► brought I felt like it [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► it allowed me to let go of the details [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► of the you know ins and outs of we of [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► monthly comics that had sort of [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► frustrated me and take a step back and [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► look at the bigger picture of these [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► iconic stories these things that were [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► just part of the if you read Marvel [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► Comics part of the kind of collective [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► unconscious of marvel that like [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► everybody knew Galactus you know the [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► fantastic 4 etcetera etcetera everybody [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► knew back when Stacy and it all just [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► sort of it happened in the past but it [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► was all there and just to see it [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► portrayed like this it actually made me [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► realize that I had a great deal of [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► affection for this stuff and even though [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► i had sort of put aside and said no no [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► I'm not gonna do that stuff anymore it [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► made me rediscover our a reservoir of [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► love for comics that i didn't realize i [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► still had it for the end for these [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► stories and for the the big picture of [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► it and i think that's how it impacted me [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► I wanted to ask all of you about and [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► this this is also something that [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► attaches to kingdom come [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► the idea behind marvels is at its core a [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► human's I view of super super humans [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► what was it like to be a person watching [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► a world where we're super people walk [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► the earth and on that level I I find it [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► fascinating there that that's that shot [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► of Galactus towering over the city on [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► that on that is that it's a single i'm [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► not sure if it's a single or spread but [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► it is a spectacular piece of art that [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► short sleeves in all [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► yeah well is just uh amazing and there's [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► that there's a spread with the kind of [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► fire in the sky is Galactus arrives and [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► they don't understand what's going on [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► and there's yeah it's a single page of [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► just Galactus towering over everything [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► and you know in my mind that is what [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► Marvel's is about it is about wee wee [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► all the other comics take the main [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► characters being super humans marvels is [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► about the humans looking at the super [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► humans and and an army in our main [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► character loving them and following them [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► and eventually kind of as some of us do [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► when we read comics for a long time [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► getting tired of them and feeling sort [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► of disaffected like they've seen this [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► story before I I you know I i I'm [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► fascinated by Monty you have you you've [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► been you've been kind of quiet you have [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► any thoughts about the humans I view of [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► Marvel's that's what i think is the [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► coolest part of Marvel's is that it [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► portrays will try to portray what it's [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► like to live in a world where a you're [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► having to rebuild the city all the time [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► because as soon as one gigantic threat [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► from outer space it is pushed away [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► another one shows up and I like my [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► favorite part in it is the moment when [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► the narrator whose name I can't pull [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► right now Phil then I love a little [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► Sheldon will just when the sheldon is [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► explaining why his marbles book should [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► be published which is see how excited [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► everybody here in New York is to see the [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► human torch in the distance [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► imagine the people in peoria never see [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► this at all right and is trying to [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► picture a world where you're seeing the [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► superheroes all the time I think that's [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► really interesting and it's something [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► heard music went on to do i think even [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► more interestingly in more detail with [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► Astro City there's a there's a page [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► where in the background there there i [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► think it might even be when he's talking [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► to the editor who's sort of turning him [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► down to the book it but definitely there [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► are there are a few of these things wear [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► out the window there are just flying [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► people passing by like on their way [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► somewhere or to a fight or fighting or [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► whatever but it it it's somewhat subtly [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► simple message that this is a world [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► where you know you look at your window [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► and there's people flying by because [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► there are super people everywhere [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► yeah and I just like say that although i [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► think Alex crosses are is beautiful and [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► i can't imagine how long this thing took [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► to create [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► aight with every panel being an oil [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► painting [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► sometimes I feel like his art is a [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► little static like it doesn't really [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► look like people are moving but here it [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► works because so much of it is a [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► photographer's view right yet it's [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► supposed to be a still shot of giant man [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► posing up there right since he uses so [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► much photographic reference which if you [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► get the trade paperback you can see the [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► examples of it it does feel sometimes [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► like you're watching you know it you're [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► looking at a photograph [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► yeah and if you talk about scott mccloud [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► I mean there's the the idea of the [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► impression of movement between panels [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► and in this I think you're right it [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► works because this is a story about a [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► still photographer and so yeah sort of [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► the conceit is you know we're seeing [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► still moments from dynamic if they ask [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► and there's also this heightened not the [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► sort of heightened realism more so than [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► in kingdom come on if you look at the [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► superhero costumes in Marvel's you see [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► all the wrinkles yes my name is Michael [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► spiderman spiderman looks almost [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► amateurish which makes kind of sense [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► it's a teenager who sewed his own [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► costume and things like that there is [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► something about this art that is not [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► just static but it is almost hyper [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► representational yeah and I sometimes I [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► want that and sometimes I want you know [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► Bruce Timm or mike pair of X Batman [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► adventures you know that sort of thing [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► yeah where you where you at the [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► simplicity the other end of the scott [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► mccloud spectrum but for this this is [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► great [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► yeah I feel like his art is beautiful [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► not necessarily dynamic but in this [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► context it's perfect [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► I do feel in kingdom come could stand to [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► be a little more dynamic it still looks [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► like they're posing have been here for [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► me and it helped to help to ratchet up [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► the nostalgia factor because in a way i [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► felt like i was looking through a photo [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► album the history of the life of Marvel [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► it really is a genius concede to have it [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► through the eyes of photographer because [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► it's so perfectly fits the style of the [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► art and the composition of the frames [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► it's it's just a lovely way to reinforce [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► that all the way through it also does a [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► great job of covering the fact that this [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► is his first [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► sequential art work of you know of this [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► scale or anything anything remotely this [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► epic in scope you know beyond a little [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► bit of work that he had done and I I you [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► know call me controversial the arts [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► beautiful controversial am you want to [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► thank you thank you i will accept my [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► plot its its its iconic and the thing [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► that that number of us are pointing to [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► is it's not particularly dynamic there [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► are some really amazing shots within [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► this their memorable but looking back on [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► it and i've ever visited a couple of [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► times over the years there there are [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► very few bits that really are just [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► indelible in my mind there more of those [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► i would say with kingdom common as time [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► goes on [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► there's still the painterly the single [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► snapshot kind of field to the way that [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► his visual storytelling works but you [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► know it does evolve and get a little bit [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► more dynamic a little bit more to where [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► you you feel the illusion of the [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► sequential are moving you forward much [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► more pronounced and stuff like Earth X [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► number of years later but if if anything [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► i have my friends who say oh man alex [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► ross i just wish Alex Ross would do [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► everything I don't I think there's a [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► very specific type of storytelling that [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► his art is very beautifully attuned to [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► like this like these massively oversized [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► single prestige edition things that DC [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► did they did one for Superman they [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► didn't refer Batman they do refreshes am [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► that is some of the best shows Mr that's [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► ever been done [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► they did a really great Wonder Woman 12 [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► i think there might have been one or two [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► others [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► this I think is is a great encapsulation [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► of if if this type of storytelling is [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► good for you then the things that alex [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► ross art is on is the sort of thing that [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► you can take but i don't think any of us [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► can can really necessarily go man I [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► remember entire pages of this art the [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► way that we do something with dave [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► gibbons are from watchmen well I can but [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► on [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► you only a pet only because there's [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► panels that's an entire page that I [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► happen to like that panel right like he [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► does a good splash panel [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► I don't know I've had a lot of effort [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► kingdom come a few times and so there's [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► a few panels i remember pretty [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► explicitly just because the imagery [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► struck me one way around here I'm saying [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► I'm saying Marvel specifically well not [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► as much as kingdom come [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► the giant man shot i think but again [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► that's because it's a giant panel hug [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► when Stacy holding her face up yeah [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► right to the in the rain with her hands [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► up around her up its that's and just the [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► quality of life in that panel is is [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► practically translucent and every time I [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► see it I'm just struck and how he [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► managed to capture the experience of the [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► Sun shower [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► yeah that though the ones that he sells [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► giclee prints for a giant pile of money [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► at San Diego of like those though [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► they're there much fewer of those and [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► morals than there are in kingdom come [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► Thy I feel like I feel like with [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► Marvel's every panel is essentially a [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► cover and the kingdom come I feel like [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► he dialed it back a little bit and it's [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► a little more it feels a little more [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► sequential but I don't mind that [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► actually think maybe I prefer it but I [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► think Marvel is the perfect place for [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► that right [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► the whole idea of Marvel's is everything [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► is happy that is happening that we are [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► showing you is iconic this is the photo [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► album [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► that's exactly right of that I want to [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► mention by the way that there's that [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► there's that scene where Phil is in the [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► Daily Bugle office and spider-man climbs [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► up the outside the building and that's [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► that's the moment where you see him [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► close up and he's got the kind of [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► wrinkly outfit and I remember that was [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► the first time after years of reading [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► spider-man from when I was a little kid [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► that I thought experiments costume is [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► kind of weird because like this is at a [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► realistic depiction of it and it's [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► problematic and I remember thinking of [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► this very panel when I went and saw the [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► toby mcwire spider-man in 2002 and end [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► and noticed how they tried to deal with [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► how you depicted actual human being [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► wearing the spider-man costume because [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► it's kind of hard and it is kinda not [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► again that's why i like the x-men was [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► like we'll put them in leather jackets [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► forget about the costumes and and it [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► really worked for me in that Bay in it [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► which is kinda fast because it's trying [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► to apply some real world [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► textures and physics to these things [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► that were so totally not that and that's [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► why I think Marvel's work so well as a [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► comic book entirely composed of of [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► covers essentially one of the [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► interesting mood things that he did it [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► was the first time that I remember [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► seeing the x-men and finding them kind [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► of terrifying and they were directed as [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► monsters all me yeah i mean that this is [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► glowing red devil Hugh who in the first [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► appearance of the x-men in Marvel [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► signers never look creepier than marble [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► yeah and that valuable because I've [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► always thought that's one of the weakest [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► parts of the x-men that they're in a [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► world with the Fantastic Four and the [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► Submariner and all these other [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► superheroes and spider-man but mutants [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► are feared yeah what do you care if I [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► guys a mutant or got it from cosmic rays [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► or gamma radiation [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► yeah it for us the comic reader it makes [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► the the anti-mutant hysteria and the [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► riding and all that stuff seemed [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► absolutely nonsensical and I think [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► that's I think that's part of the point [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► a story the characters look exactly the [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► same unless you get the until they're [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► bathed in the light and all that other [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► was your backstory tell you did you were [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► bitten by something with their array of [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► some sort or were you just born this way [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► if you're born this way we hate you if [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► it was a ray you're fine it's fine but [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► then I think that Marvel's did a pretty [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► good job of under of explaining why [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► people are feeling that way with her gut [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► reaction because if it's a genetic [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► change those mere be clearly the one [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► yeah they're going to be taking over the [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► world whereas if it's just a good old [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► you know he was being got some some [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► superpowers they're going to protect [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► other human beings with there's still [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► one of us in an amazingly gutsy thing [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► that music does in this story is he has [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► phil Sheldon pick up a brick and hit [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► Iceman and has with Elijah he is he is [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► part of his part of the right i think [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► that scene happens and x-men like one or [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► 2i might be imagining that but I think [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► he's done like a flash man where he is [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► inserted his character into a [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► pre-existing seen i'm pretty sure that [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► is the case the memory is fuzzy but that [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► sounds right and she and feel shame for [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► Sheldon is no saint in this in this [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► story not like not like Norman McCay [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► Shelton is literally every man he's got [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► his good parts bigotries Sheldon has to [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► have to make peace with the fact that he [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► was a big it out of fear at some point [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► yeah yeah I i do enjoy a lot the fact [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► that they find a the mutant girl and [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► they take her in and then the fact that [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► she then runs off that was hard and [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► there's no and there's no real [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► resolution to that she runs off [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► yeah she's not a famous character or [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► anything so you don't know what happened [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► it's actually called back to an [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► excellent story from the nineteen [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► sixties i believe and unfortunately i [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► can't remember if the story ends with [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► the child killed by a mob and the x-men [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► get to her too late or if they rescue [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► her in the nick of time but that child [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► that was in the basement is actually [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► meant to be a famous mutant type thing [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► and and obviously an analogue for the [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► civil rights movement at the same time [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► to where the question is what kind of [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► people persecuted child just because [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► they look different [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► Maggie mutant has a has a has a page on [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► has a wicked Marvel wikipedia Marvel [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► wiki page lyrics so apparently we did we [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► did she did she did have other adventure [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► after she left those buildings a the [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► basement the adventures of Maggie the [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► mighty mutant yeah i don't think coming [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► after secret wars 2015 now exactly uh [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► the the one thing that i read into this [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► story and I don't know how intentional [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► it was but I remember a lot of [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► commentary over the years about the than [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► day that Gwen Stacy died being a real [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► turning point for Marvel and Marvel [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► publishing and I see the I read this [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► story as a bit of a criticism of where [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► the comic-book storytelling has gone [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► since the time of the marvels Gwen Stacy [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► dies that breaks Phil shelled and and [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► he's through he's through with Marvel's [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► and through that and then this wonderful [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► last page where he where he encounters a [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► nice normal ordinary boy Danny catch the [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► second heroes right [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► who is one of the most aggressively [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► nineties aggressively effed up [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► commercial and if you take our pictures [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► with young mr. catch here a nice normal [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► ordinary boy that's actually pretty darn [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► cutting yeah no that's nice but I look [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► it up I was like I bet that kid ended up [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► being something horrible i looked like [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► that okay yeah i'm a big fan of the [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► garage of meaningless cameos yes my [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► favorite to our bill lumpkin who's [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► laying around willy lumpkin the mailman [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► and ask for yeah he's great he's dating [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► Phil's girl when phil has could like [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► reluctance to marry in a world with [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► Marvel's and so I guess you like it [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► going to waggle this year's I wonder [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► stupid Willie lumpkin I just love that [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► they went to the trouble of calling that [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► guy out and also for some reason Popeye [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► is in this really yes vision an issue 11 [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► of the characters that is just being [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► interviewed is clearly pie is not a [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► Squinkie I and a corncob pipe nice [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► there are there a couple of follow-up [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► pieces that I i I'll of mentioning this [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► kind of stuff [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► partly especially in this case because [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► one of them is is kind of a well it's a [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► warren ellis book and I love everything [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► warren ellis does everything he destroys [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► and in a few years later I actually [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► might have been the next year [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► Warren Ellis did a book called ruins was [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► a to issue thing that was basically a [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► parody of Marvel's Phil Sheldon's back [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► once again and but everything is going [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► terribly wrong like it the the first [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► issue has Captain America Iron Man [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► spider-man and the Hulk and like all the [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► heroes laying all a Kimbo on the ground [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► you know it beating the crap but it's [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► basically Marvel's but totally dystopian [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► and and i love it its it's kind of [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► insane and I feel like nobody remembers [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► that it exists of the Amazon reviews are [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► merciless oh it's because people love [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► Marvel so much ruins just ruins it for [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► some people and now they did they did a [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► proper quote-unquote sequel featuring [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► the art of uh a painter style artist [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► that i'm a big fan of from books that he [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► worked on that I'm sure that if i look [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► back on them now they're probably was [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► not much substance in there at all but [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► Jay anacleto did Marvel's i have the [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► camera again written by Kurt music and [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► again Phil Sheldon is back with a [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► vengeance and so care about Phil Sheldon [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► I don't decide I look I think it's great [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► that there's an every man who frames the [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► story because it does come when you get [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► to find out what happened Aggie know I [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► care more about fulfillment i do about [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► what's his name who's not even a [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► character in kingdom come [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► uh-huh mhm I want to take a moment for [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► an elseworlds tail imagine a world a [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► dark world full of spam viruses bounced [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► email this is the world of kingdom come [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► oh and also our world let's also imagine [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► a world without spam viruses or bounced [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► email this is the dream of Phil Shelton [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► in Marvel's maybe but if he is dreaming [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► that he's dreaming about mail route who [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► is sponsoring this episode of the [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► uncomfortable mail route stops that evil [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► stuff the spam viruses and bounced email [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► from reaching your inbox indeed from [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► reaching your mail server at all mail [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► route lives in the cloud you sign up [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► change your MX records for your domain [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► two-point mail route and then all the [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► inbound mail for your domain comes to [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► mail route servers mail route service [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► process it make sure that it's not spam [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► or viruses or bounced email pulls all [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► that stuff out and then delivers only [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► the legitimate email that you want and [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► need to receive to your mail server and [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► then into your inbox traffic and load on [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► your mail server goes down the junk [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► never reaches you [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► you don't have to maintain the [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► hardware/software all happens up in the [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► cloud mail routes servers very easy to [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► set up super reliable is trusted by [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► large organizations like universities [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► and corporations I find as a regular old [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► desktop user from the interface to be [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► super easy [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► I i really enjoy using it i like [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► checking on what spam I didn't get [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► that's actually kind of a blast and if [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► you're an email administrator or an IT [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► professional they built all the tools [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► with your in mind they've got an API for [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► easy account management their support [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► for ldap Active Directory TLS male [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► bagging outbound relay everything you'd [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► want from the people handling your mail [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► you can start a risk-free trial without [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► any credit card necessary it's simple [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► and effective is no reason not to try it [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► every listen to the incomparable can [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► receive ten percent off of mail route [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► for the lifetime of the account go to [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► mail route dot net / smell right now to [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► sign up and thank you so much to mail [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► route for sponsoring the uncomfortable [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► alright let's let's move on talking [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► about kingdom come I am I i will put it [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► out there i am somebody who is vaguely [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► aware of DC mythology and read some DC [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► comics but I was always much more of a [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► Marvel guy and so coming up on kingdom [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► come as i did I thought well this is [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► this looks cool you know thumbing [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► through it at Barnes & Noble or whatever [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► and i bought it and I realized as i read [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► that there were so many layers of [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► reference to characters that I knew [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► nothing about but I knew the basics [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► enough sort of like what erica was [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► saying about about marbles I knew enough [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► about Superman Batman Wonder Woman and [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► Green Lantern the flash and things like [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► that captain marvel that I could that I [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► could get it [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► what I really loved about it and this is [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► this kingdom come has much more of a [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► story Kingdom Come is the story of a [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► future it's it's the I think it's the [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► early 21st century whoo [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► we're superheroes anybody the old-school [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► superheroes behind for a while and there [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► are new school superheroes like from the [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► nineties who have emerged in their awful [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► we know that was here at 19 terrible [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► you're going to do something [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► just use your ears everywhere to their [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► awful and so the world is coming on to [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► hell and likewise we are seeing that you [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► know it's not a great place for regular [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► humans it's really more the superhumans [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► are just kind of flying around fighting [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► each other for fun [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► so there's that whole kind of meta level [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► and then and then one woman goes and has [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► a talk with Superman and says you know [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► this is crap we need to deal with it bad [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► things have happened they blew up you [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► know nuclear you know they they split [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► captain atom into and he made a nuclear [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► explosion and pointed and poisoned the [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► Midwest the US and it's very bad you [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► need to do something about it and so [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► there's that this is a this book with a [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► story but what is fascinating about this [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► is as DC calls in elseworld it's like [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► not in continuity it's a it's a future [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► time and and these characters are these [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► iconic characters are allowed to be [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► iconic and and and there are [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► consequences and and you can tell abroad [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► story within this a broad this is like a [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► but we'll get to that it was a lot of [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► story here love story that's just [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► summarized because there's too much [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► story to actually tell but you know and [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► there's it from page one there is a [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► whole biblical overlay of the you know [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► the end times and revelation Kingdom [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► Come is the name of the thing and it you [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► know a clash with the super humans and [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► the the super humans and the [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► supervillains essentially and then the [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► humans who are also not that great [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► it's a fascinating piece of work in the [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► art is beautiful by alex ross all the [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► way if it does feel different in and [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► more rough than the lavish stuff that's [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► in Marvel's and I felt like if that was [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► the if if Marbles was the nostalgic [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► family family album of pictures then [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► this was sort of like a bunch of news [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► cutting slept together or newsreels or [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► I what I find interesting about kingdom [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► comes it's basically a really its you [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► mentioned there's them the framing [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► devices that you have a minister who's [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► asked to run around the universe with [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► the specter yes and help the specter sit [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► in judgment but what this really is is a [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► family AKA thumbnail version of the [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► story might well be [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► Jesus akc been having of Superman [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► ya know because it's because it's [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► literally like one of the first times [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► you see Jesus there's there's a panel [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► where Superman's got long hair and you [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► know it's holding your cross beam on his [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► shoulders and the Christian imagery ya [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► could not be more blatant if you had [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► like a group of hippies singing [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► preparing the way of water underneath [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► him the gist of that the gist of the [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► story is is will Jesus / Superman step [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► up and do what is necessary with the the [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► power she has been given and then at the [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► very end there's kind of a [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► bait-and-switch when no surprise [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► surprise Captain Marvel is your [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► sacrificial lamb all along and Superman [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► is is in Superman like there's a heavy [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► emphasis on the man portion of Superman [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► by the end of the by the end of the [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► kingdom come [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► and the information there is that he's [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► finally come to terms with the man part [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► of Superman and that's what's going to [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► make it more effective super super being [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► by the end of it whereas diana is pretty [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► much just unrepentantly I'm worshiped [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► from beginning to end of the story [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► no there's not a whole lot of character [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► development for anyone other than anyone [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► other than Superman this is basically [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► the whole book is about the battle for [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► Superman soul where he had effectively [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► dropped out of public life ten years [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► earlier when he was horrified by people [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► like yeah it's okay to kill super [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► villains and it didn't want Lois Lane [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► was killed by the Joker yeah but he then [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► you're gone yeah megog my god kills the [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► Joker and Superman like that's not how [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► it's supposed to work and he drops out [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► of public life on the public was like [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► why can't we kill super villains already [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► if the nineties if ya stream yeah yeah [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► let's get this book this book feels like [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► a reaction to the content the comics of [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► the nineteen nineties and that it'sit's [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► the struggle for the soul of Superman [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► can be seen as metaphorical that way i [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► just find the religious imagery through [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► this whole thing incredibly striking [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► because it suggests that there's [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► different ways to worship these these [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► people and then the question is how did [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► the gods respond to the worship that is [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► they do and they've the guy named Magog [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► like that yeah Bible you're gonna be [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► good right yeah all of this weather the [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► gods are actually do it or whether they [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► should be God's in the first place I [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► mean it is this is this is angry god [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► stuff this is not warm and fuzzy prayers [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► for healing kinds of stuff then [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► the they don't become worthy of normal [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► humans trust until the end of kingdom [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► come when they when they take their [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► masks off and stop wearing the uniform [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► you could argue that the story too is [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► that the old gods the the you know the [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► the superheroes that we know [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► left left the world right to to their [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► own to its own devices and now we're [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► having that debate of while things got [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► really bad when we laughed doing later [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► do we reengage here do we re-enter and [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► they do and they say we're taking over [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► and that does not go well write like all [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► the all the villains are upset the UN is [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► upset and even the humans who have been [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► heroes are upset and that's a [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► fascinating split the split between [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► batman bruce wayne has got it is the [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► heroes just booked more you really like [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► and he's wonderful but but he's human [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► and and he's got sort of the human [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► heroes with him and then there are the [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► godlike heroes and they are they are on [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► opposite sides ish for a long time which [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► is fascinating [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► damn i do also enjoy how commendable you [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► know what this is like a landowner [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► problem i got grab you at seventy [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► percent of the of their surface to deal [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► with some away and you know you'll be [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► able to jail here i think it's [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► interesting that actually Batman doesn't [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► take as bigger role as i keep kept [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► expecting him to like a lot of big d [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► stories boil down to Superman arguing [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► with Batman person man vs Batman don't [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► justice or but in this one it's really [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► more Superman arguing with Wonder Woman [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► uh-huh and then Batman happening to come [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► along at the end and solve everything [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► the deus ex Batna yeah wonder woman is [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► so interesting [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► this version of that carries so [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► interesting in this she doesn't let him [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► know that she's essentially been kicked [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► out of her llanera yeah uh and stripped [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► of all of her you know royalty and [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► things like that in it you know she [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► becomes up later and she's got the [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► god-kind of godlike attitude and she is [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► also more like those other heroes and [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► that she's like we've got to do whatever [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► we can to win this whereas Superman is [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► very much like [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► almost Hamlet like in his in decisions [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► about well I mean you know what I wanted [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► to be good but you know I don't want to [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► do anything bad to make it good and [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► she's like let's just kill those guys [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► and it's fascinating that the push and [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► pull between those two characters to as [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► they're also obviously attracted to each [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► other [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► yeah yeah it's it's a more about the [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► death of at first they perceive the [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► problem Superman Wonder Woman perceive [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► the problem as it's this new generation [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► of kids who don't know morality you know [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► there is there is right and there is [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► wrong and it's easy to tell the [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► difference and then we discover [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► throughout the story that the problem is [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► not these kids it the problem is your [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► approach to the solution it is superman [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► and wonder woman are taking a Mike takes [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► right up approach this thing and you get [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► into even bigger balls than the ones [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► that they thought they were solving if I [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► can if I can interject with that was [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► something that I feel location [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► preference purpose with the words focus [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► on become I don't Jason I just a little [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► bit of origin story of Kingdom Come [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► itself because i think it's directly [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► relevant to this you know the the the [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► the old gods making way for the new gods [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► and realizing the new gods are not so [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► great and going well we should come back [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► and clean this stuff up this story was [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► was originally pitched as an outline by [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► alex ross while he was working on [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► Marvel's he wanted to do something like [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► this with DC but he didn't know DC [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► continuity as well he pitched it to [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► let's see who is it too is it was it [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► James Robinson famous for for his [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► legendary run on starman along with a [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► bunch of other stuff and he he pitched [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► this thing that was similar in scope and [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► theoretical you know dramatic [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► implications to something like watchman [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► or an alum or project that got pitched [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► years before called twilight of the [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► superheroes that never turned into [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► anything but that has been its its [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► corpse has been well plundered by [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► especially kingdom come from which it [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► took some very very direct [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► inspiration but loads of other things [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► that would follow in DC history where [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► the general concept was was this you [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► know what what happens you know when [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► when some big catastrophic thing like [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► this is going to happen and it was it [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► was something that just kind of [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► dissolved in terms of of Moore's take on [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► it but but bits of it especially [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► especially the notion of dealing with [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► the conflict between the older and [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► younger generations of superheroes and [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► how to deal with super villains and [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► putting some some This Is It this is the [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► last one this is the big epic final [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► ragnarok level event where everything [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► goes to hell and they eventually ended [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► up hearing with Mark way because mark [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► waid as i mentioned earlier had these [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► note card boxes full of full of files on [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► all of these comic book characters as a [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► kid and knows all of this stuff [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► encyclopedia CLE and if you look at this [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► and then you look at Earth x which ross [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► did with Marvel few years later with [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► with jim courier you see the difference [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► when he's paired with somebody like Mark [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► Waid and when he's given more free rein [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► to just kind of go nuts and that one [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► kind of falls falls apart of the ends [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► about what I like so much about this is [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► yes there's loads of continuity porn all [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► over it but it ties together really [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► nicely even if like me still years later [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► you're realizing go scot-free is a guy [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► called mister miracle and he's a thing [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► is a character [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► ok what's he all about it here and there [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► you go see [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► clever clever comic-book names but it's [TS]

00:56:36 ◼   ► a that the the the core conceit of this [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► potentially being the big final story [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► for all of these characters is something [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► that when when I discovered it where I [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► just kind of grabbed DC stuff here and [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► there it was it was phenomenal i didn't [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► know anything about then Captain Marvel [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► now called shazam I'd never seen him [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► that didn't know that existed and he [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► played a major role in this [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► thing and then I decided well maybe I [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► should I should look into who this [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► character is he traveled in a Winnebago [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► and the seventies voices you may have [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► missed that but you watch the kids TV in [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► the in the seventh member he traveled [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► with his friend mentor in a Winnebago it [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► is a mark waid certainly is a extremely [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► interested in thinking about the idea of [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► Superman and what it what life Marvel [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► Comics doesn't have Superman they don't [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► have a really uh Superman india they [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► have some characters were kinda like [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► that now but not not one of their their [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► lead characters is not the all-powerful [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► kind of being that Superman can be and [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► Mark weight is definitely fascinated by [TS]

00:57:48 ◼   ► him and you see the kingdom come this is [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► essentially like Lisa said the story of [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► what Superman going to do and what [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► decision that mean essentially making [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► this decision like do we all die or do [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► we live and the world is ruined and [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► there's a third option which is the [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► captain marvel blows up the thing and [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► many of them died but not all of them [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► and that's that somehow it gets resolved [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► in the end it but everybody loses that's [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► how yes well I mean so Marcus wrote [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► irredeemable which i recommend to people [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► i think it's a really interesting comic [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► and it lasted for 37 issues and it tells [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► the whole story but irredeemable is [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► essentially mark waid saying what if [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► Superman went bad one day and it's it's [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► great but it is very clear that this is [TS]

00:58:29 ◼   ► a subject that is near and dear to mark [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► waid heart and he likes to he likes to [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► talk about one of the great attractions [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► of Kingdom Come is that because it's set [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► outside of continuity can tell a story [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► and it can make changes in these [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► characters and they can have development [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► in age and this is sort of old grumpy [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► Batman instead of you know younger [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► grumpy Batman that we usually see and it [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► said that's all that's all kinda [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► fascinating one of course seven years [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► later wait got a chance in continuity to [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► redefine Superman with the well until [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► they wiped away all of continuity the [TS]

00:58:58 ◼   ► the really great canonical modern [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► retelling of the Superman myth with with [TS]

00:59:05 ◼   ► birth right birth on which they lifted [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► from like crazy for that man of steel [TS]

00:59:08 ◼   ► movie that the [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► that being on an episode of the [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► incomparable taught me i really did hate [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► that one [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► hiren I remembered you know everything [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► when I got a tweet from somebody so I [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► finally some and steel wow you guys are [TS]

00:59:21 ◼   ► right it's terrible my getaway but thank [TS]

00:59:25 ◼   ► you for the reinforcement years later I [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► was so scarred by it that intervention [TS]

00:59:29 ◼   ► had to take place for me to realize my [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► true feelings about it that I was trying [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► to push for the mac want to push away [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► one of the inciting moments in still in [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► Marvel's Civil War comic event is a [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► group of superheroes hat making a [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► mistake that leads to a large loss of [TS]

00:59:44 ◼   ► innocent life [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► one might say that marquel and American [TS]

00:59:48 ◼   ► alarm might have actually might have [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► read this it brings that to mind when i [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► read kingdom come this time I was like [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► oh you know that's kind of how the whole [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► civil war thing start [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► that's that's the 1i Reds [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► that's that's the 1i Reds [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► the war for the first time like wait a [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► minute yeah really familiar interesting [TS]

01:00:04 ◼   ► but if you know the idea that [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► superheroes when left to their own [TS]

01:00:07 ◼   ► devices might make some super mistakes [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► and the kill a bunch of innocent people [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► is it's an interesting thing to explore [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► i wanted to mention the ending which my [TS]

01:00:16 ◼   ► understanding is is not in the car [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► original comics and only in the [TS]

01:00:19 ◼   ► collection which is the one year leaving [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► the one year later and along where [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► they're in plant on the planet hollywood [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► of superhero god I love that besides [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► allah i love the purpose of the [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► restaurant and menu cracks me up to but [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► today's special is the power girl [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► chicken sandwich [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► yeah it's like that is bad if I could [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► interject for just a second that i read [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► this because I couldn't find my uh my i [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► have the original press teach comics and [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► but I couldn't find them in time so i [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► got this off of comiXology and included [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► with issue for is the one year later [TS]

01:00:54 ◼   ► things so i'm not sure it i think it may [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► have been part of the original I don't [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► think I don't think I i think it was [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► included in reprints & and the digital [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► versions that have existed go off of the [TS]

01:01:06 ◼   ► reference it's got my favorite thing in [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► it which is the spot on drink choices [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► for Superman Batman Wonder Woman water [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► and coffee [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► it's like right my interview I gotta [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► keep your comments so i gotta say the [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► epilogue is my favorite thing in the [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► whole comic i love it i love everything [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► about i love the fact that there's days [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► that there are superheroes eating at the [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► superhero themed restaurant because one [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► woman really just wants to see how crazy [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► this place would be and then people [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► dressed in all the costumes of all the [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► superheroes and ended things on the menu [TS]

01:01:36 ◼   ► are hilarious and that man just wants a [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► steak well-done and he doesn't care what [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► the theme is he just wants to steak [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► well-done it comes medium and Superman [TS]

01:01:44 ◼   ► makes it will then was he yes he like [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► moves his dad glasses if you just use [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► eyes glared for a moment and it's [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► delightful i love it so much I mean like [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► more than the mean the story is [TS]

01:01:56 ◼   ► interesting and you know operatic and [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► has religious metaphors forever and all [TS]