ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I had a really great day yesterday.

00:00:03 ◼   ► As did I, coincidentally.

00:00:05 ◼   ► Casey was visiting New York.

00:00:06 ◼   ► We met up.

00:00:07 ◼   ► We'll talk about wine a little bit.

00:00:09 ◼   ► And then I got to eat half of a pizza for lunch.

00:00:14 ◼   ► We're gonna have to post I get funny you bring this up.

00:00:16 ◼   ► I almost started like posting pictures from yesterday and I thought, you know what?

00:00:22 ◼   ► Let's see how how we handle it on the show.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Uh I am past the state.

00:00:26 ◼   ► I think all three of us, um, well, probably Marco and me more than

00:00:29 ◼   ► John, but uh I uh I'm past the stage where I need to broadcast

00:00:33 ◼   ► every ounce of my life to Instagram and whatnot.

00:00:35 ◼   ► And I do enjoy posting things that are unique and different, but I thought,

00:00:39 ◼   ► you know what, let me let me keep this one close to the vest

00:00:41 ◼   ► and see what we get into on the show.

00:00:43 ◼   ► And so uh I will put a link in the show notes to uh

00:00:46 ◼   ► Marco and I at John's Oblicker before we absolutely destroyed an entire pizza.

00:00:53 ◼   ► And the funny thing about this was uh we we w got to John's

00:00:57 ◼   ► after some shenanigans in the morning, which we'll talk about.

00:01:00 ◼   ► And um and by the way, when your phone is used to navigating by

00:01:04 ◼   ► car, you need to tell it to navigate by foot when you're in New

00:01:07 ◼   ► York City because I I was navigating on Marco or before Marco and I

00:01:11 ◼   ► to walk from somewhere to John's and I think we took the most circuitous

00:01:15 ◼   ► route possible.

00:01:16 ◼   ► We might have walked through another to get to John's.

00:01:19 ◼   ► But in any case, uh eventually like when we were almost there, I realized

00:01:23 ◼   ► oh these were driving directions.

00:01:24 ◼   ► Whoops.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Um But no, we we got there and we were you know having a

00:01:29 ◼   ► happy debate over w should we get the smaller or the larger of the

00:01:32 ◼   ► two sized pizzas.

00:01:33 ◼   ► There was no debate.

00:01:36 ◼   ► It's just always get the bigger pizza.

00:01:38 ◼   ► No nobody ever is like we have s we have way too much pizza.

00:01:42 ◼   ► No, two dollars more to get a bigger pizza.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Of course get the bigger pizza for two dollars more.

00:01:48 ◼   ► And that's what we did and we polished off the entire pizza.

00:01:51 ◼   ► And uh I had no regrets.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Oh now I didn't eat dinner that night because I was still full, but

00:01:57 ◼   ► no regrets.

00:01:58 ◼   ► It was great.

00:01:58 ◼   ► It was a really lovely time.

00:01:59 ◼   ► We had a little bit of time to kill, um, you know, before we

00:02:01 ◼   ► parted ways uh afterwards and we were dragging.

00:02:06 ◼   ► After eating a after eating an entire you know half pizza each.

00:02:10 ◼   ► It was no amount of coffee could have could have kept us very awake

00:02:14 ◼   ► after that.

00:02:17 ◼   ► We have important uh administrative to take care of.

00:02:20 ◼   ► It is time.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Now, let's suppose you're walking in the streets of Manhattan.

00:02:26 ◼   ► Perhaps you are, I don't know, walking in a circuitous route because you forget

00:02:29 ◼   ► that you need to toggle over to walking directions.

00:02:32 ◼   ► And you hear my voice, you hear these dulcet tones say to you, The

00:02:36 ◼   ► ATP holiday store is back, baby.

00:02:39 ◼   ► And if you want to, you should pull over, not block the sidewalk and

00:02:43 ◼   ► go to atp.fm slash store and you will see some genuinely fantastic work, pretty

00:02:51 ◼   ► much entirely done by John Syracuse.

00:02:52 ◼   ► So John, take it away if you please.

00:02:54 ◼   ► What do we have on store or in the store this time?

00:02:59 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Well, so the theme for this year is John is disappointed that Apple doesn't

00:03:03 ◼   ► put out better chips.

00:03:04 ◼   ► Uh so we have a bunch of logo shirts, uh including a leftover logo

00:03:08 ◼   ► shirt that we should have made last uh sale, but we didn't.

00:03:11 ◼   ► So anyway, to start.

00:03:13 ◼   ► Our first two shirts are shirts that we've been talking about for a long

00:03:17 ◼   ► time but haven't done.

00:03:18 ◼   ► Um, if you're familiar with our logo, our show logo, you might be looking

00:03:22 ◼   ► at it now in your podcast player.

00:03:24 ◼   ► Um, it's a combination of the BMW M logo and the Rainbow Six Colored

00:03:29 ◼   ► Apple logo and the initials of our show, ATP accidental tech podcast all in

00:03:35 ◼   ► one logo.

00:03:35 ◼   ► It's, you know, the the stripes, the BMW M-ish stripes, there's six of them

00:03:40 ◼   ► because it's the same colors in the same order as they are on the

00:03:43 ◼   ► old style Rainbow Apple logo.

00:03:45 ◼   ► And we've often talked about our logo and said, and also if you wear

00:03:49 ◼   ► that shirt and someone mistakenly thinks that's supposed to be like a like a

00:03:52 ◼   ► pride flag logo, that's great too.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Another meaning to throw into the thing because we support that, it's great it's

00:03:57 ◼   ► a happy accident.

00:03:59 ◼   ► But we always have the idea, why don't we actually make ATP shirts with

00:04:04 ◼   ► the Pride colors in it?

00:04:05 ◼   ► Because the Pride col Pride flag colors are actually different and in a different

00:04:08 ◼   ► order than the App logo colors, which are different than the BMW M colors

00:04:11 ◼   ► and so on and so forth.

00:04:12 ◼   ► So we have done that this year.

00:04:14 ◼   ► We have a shirt called ATP Pride and it uses I always forgot the

00:04:18 ◼   ► name.

00:04:18 ◼   ► I link to it, I have to look it up again.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Like the the traditional Pride flag, uh with what does it get?

00:04:23 ◼   ► Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple is the order.

00:04:27 ◼   ► And I tried to copy the colors exactly.

00:04:29 ◼   ► And those replace the Apple Six colors logo.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:33 ◼   ► And we have a second shirt called ATP Trans Pride, which uses the Trans

00:04:37 ◼   ► Pride logo, which has fewer colors, but then I just repeated the I think

00:04:40 ◼   ► they repeated on the flag too.

00:04:41 ◼   ► It's like blue, pink, white pink, blue.

00:04:44 ◼   ► Uh it's actually a different uh number of stripes than the other one, but

00:04:47 ◼   ► we made it work.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Uh and I think both these shirts look great.

00:04:50 ◼   ► So now your ATP logo shirt won't mistaken for a pride flag.

00:04:54 ◼   ► It literally is choose the regular pride flag.

00:04:56 ◼   ► I forget what again, I forgot what the name of it is, but it's

00:04:58 ◼   ► like one of the older ones.

00:05:00 ◼   ► And the trans pride flag.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Um, and the I think they come in multiple colors, mostly neutral colors because

00:05:06 ◼   ► they have like rainbow logos on them, but I really like the trans.

00:05:08 ◼   ► Pride uh one that it comes with like a light a light bluish or

00:05:11 ◼   ► even the dark bluish shirt and it seems to go well with the the

00:05:14 ◼   ► the uh light blue and pink and white logos in there.

00:05:17 ◼   ► And of course it's not just t shirts, it's long sleeve shirts and sweatshirts

00:05:20 ◼   ► and pullover hoodies and all the things with those logos on it so those

00:05:23 ◼   ► two shirts, ATP Pride and ATP Trans Pride.

00:05:26 ◼   ► And for these two shirts, we are donating 100% of the profits from the

00:05:30 ◼   ► sales of these two shirts to LGBTQ charities.

00:05:34 ◼   ► So I've chosen shoot charities for this one.

00:05:37 ◼   ► It was very difficult for me to choose charities.

00:05:38 ◼   ► I don't know a lot about this and I'm looking at like charity navigator

00:05:41 ◼   ► and trying to find good things or whatever.

00:05:42 ◼   ► Here's what I came up with.

00:05:44 ◼   ► If I've picked terrible charities, tell me and we'll change them.

00:05:46 ◼   ► But if it's like you prefer a different maybe next time, you know, again,

00:05:50 ◼   ► let us know.

00:05:50 ◼   ► And maybe next time we'll have a one.

00:05:52 ◼   ► But here's what I picked for this one.

00:05:53 ◼   ► Pick two charities.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Again, 100% of the profits from both these shirts going to these charities.

00:05:58 ◼   ► First one is Trans Lifeline.

00:06:00 ◼   ► I'm reading from their website what they have.

00:06:01 ◼   ► They just themselves.

00:06:02 ◼   ► Trans Life Sign is a grassroots hotline and microgrants nonprofit organization offering direct emotional

00:06:08 ◼   ► and financial support to trans people in crisis for trans for the trans community

00:06:12 ◼   ► by the trans community.

00:06:13 ◼   ► So this is like targeted on the ground.

00:06:16 ◼   ► You're if if you are uh you know in crisis, call this number.

00:06:19 ◼   ► They will help you and they will give you money.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And it's like, you know, real kind of grassroots stuff.

00:06:25 ◼   ► The second one is Transgender Law Center.

00:06:27 ◼   ► Again, reading from their website.

00:06:29 ◼   ► They are the largest, the largest trans specific trans-led organization in the United States.

00:06:35 ◼   ► Their advocacy and precedent-setting litigation victories in areas including employment, prison conditions, education, immigration,

00:06:40 ◼   ► and health care protect protect and advance the rights of transgender and gender nonconforming

00:06:44 ◼   ► people across the country.

00:06:46 ◼   ► So my I my thinking behind picking these two is one, it's like a

00:06:50 ◼   ► really, you know, direct on the ground helping individual people thing.

00:06:53 ◼   ► And two, the bigger picture fighting against the terrible laws that are happening in

00:06:57 ◼   ► our country to try to take away rights from trans people.

00:07:00 ◼   ► And you may be thinking, why are they two trans charities?

00:07:02 ◼   ► What happens to generic LGBTQ charities?

00:07:04 ◼   ► Let me tell you, I had such a problem trying to find a non-problematic

00:07:08 ◼   ► generic generic LGBTQ charity, uh, that wasn't like involved in some kind of scandal

00:07:14 ◼   ► or other thing or whatever.

00:07:15 ◼   ► So again, maybe I'll try again next uh time.

00:07:17 ◼   ► But for now I picked those two and I figured it's reasonable because right

00:07:21 ◼   ► now in our country anyway, trans people are the ones getting it the worst.

00:07:24 ◼   ► Everyone getting it bad.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Like the m you know, uh marginalized people are not having a good time

00:07:28 ◼   ► in America, period.

00:07:29 ◼   ► I but trans people are just really like they're they're the subject of half

00:07:33 ◼   ► of the uh ca the political ads and they're like such a tiny fraction

00:07:36 ◼   ► of the population, it's brutal.

00:07:38 ◼   ► So anyway, that's what we're doing with those.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Oh, and by the way, I said we're uh donating a hundred percent of

00:07:42 ◼   ► our profits from these shirts also Cotton Bureau is kicking in two dollars for

00:07:46 ◼   ► each uh shirt sale as well.

00:07:47 ◼   ► So Oh nice I didn't know that.

00:07:49 ◼   ► That's great.

00:07:49 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Um we're not making a cent on those.

00:07:52 ◼   ► They are entirely uh a charity thing, and I think the shirts look great.

00:07:55 ◼   ► Please uh buy them if you can.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Yeah, uh for what it's worth, John has genuinely done a really good job

00:08:00 ◼   ► with both of these and um I we've said this in the past, and

00:08:04 ◼   ► I if I were you, I probably wouldn't believe us, but hand to God,

00:08:07 ◼   ► this is on this is a God's honest truth.

00:08:09 ◼   ► We really don't make a lot from merch.

00:08:10 ◼   ► We really, really don't.

00:08:11 ◼   ► The costs for us are quite a bit higher than you think.

00:08:15 ◼   ► I am fully aware that the cost for you is quite a bit higher

00:08:19 ◼   ► than you would want.

00:08:19 ◼   ► Honestly, it's

00:08:22 ◼   ► like John said, for the small amount that we would have earned off of

00:08:26 ◼   ► these two shirts, We will be giving one hundred percent of that plus the

00:08:30 ◼   ► two dollars from Cotton Bureau.

00:08:31 ◼   ► Thank you, fine folks at Cotton Bureau.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Uh we will donate that and we will follow up about it at a

00:08:34 ◼   ► later date more on terrible profit margins as we go to later products.

00:08:38 ◼   ► Um But yeah, like and again, if you just want to donate to these

00:08:41 ◼   ► charities directly.

00:08:42 ◼   ► It will give them way more money than buying a shirt.

00:08:44 ◼   ► But the shirts are cool and and and for the shirts, like I you

00:08:47 ◼   ► know, I I don't know how many like influencers we have listening.

00:08:50 ◼   ► Steven Robles, if you're listening to the show, I know he wears like one

00:08:53 ◼   ► of our M five shirts or whatever.

00:08:55 ◼   ► I would encourage people to buy one of these shirts and you think, oh,

00:08:59 ◼   ► are you telling them so they can put it on so they can virtue

00:09:01 ◼   ► signal and say how wonderful they are?

00:09:02 ◼   ► No.

00:09:03 ◼   ► The reason you're wearing this is to let more people in the world know

00:09:07 ◼   ► that you are essentially a safe person.

00:09:09 ◼   ► Other people don't know what it means, don't care, whatever it's a logo.

00:09:12 ◼   ► Is that is that about tennis?

00:09:13 ◼   ► Is that about, you know, BMW?

00:09:15 ◼   ► Like no one knows or cares.

00:09:16 ◼   ► But the people who do know and care will see this shirt on you

00:09:20 ◼   ► and hopefully understand that you are a safe person.

00:09:22 ◼   ► And I think that's important.

00:09:23 ◼   ► And also, you know just being seen, right?

00:09:26 ◼   ► People don't know what it is.

00:09:27 ◼   ► Like if you're I that's why I encourage like YouTubers to wear because I

00:09:30 ◼   ► just want it to be out there in the world and for someone to

00:09:32 ◼   ► to come upon it and say, hey, there's someone who recognizes my humanity.

00:09:36 ◼   ► Boy, it's such a low bar.

00:09:37 ◼   ► So it sounds terrible when I say that.

00:09:39 ◼   ► But anyway, yep.

00:09:40 ◼   ► There you go.

00:09:40 ◼   ► There's two products.

00:09:41 ◼   ► All right.

00:09:41 ◼   ► So the next one is a shirt that I should have made last sale

00:09:44 ◼   ► and I didn't.

00:09:44 ◼   ► That's on me.

00:09:45 ◼   ► My bad.

00:09:45 ◼   ► Uh we do shirts for like the M chips because it was like, Can

00:09:48 ◼   ► you believe uh Apple made chips starting with M and we have this BMW?

00:09:51 ◼   ► M based logo.

00:09:52 ◼   ► Now we can combine them together.

00:09:53 ◼   ► Uh that was a happy accident.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Uh but then uh with the MacBook Neo, they put an A chip in

00:10:01 ◼   ► a Mac.

00:10:02 ◼   ► And all these shirts are like Mac chips, right?

00:10:04 ◼   ► Um because I love Macs.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Uh they put an A chip in the Mac.

00:10:06 ◼   ► And hey, our podcast begins with A.

00:10:09 ◼   ► So we are making finally an A18 Pro shirt.

00:10:13 ◼   ► Cause we've had things with the M chips with the Pro thing, and we

00:10:16 ◼   ► had ATP shirt with an A, and now we have an A18 Pro shirt.

00:10:21 ◼   ► We should have had it when the MacBook Neo came.

00:10:22 ◼   ► We did have MacBook Neo shirts.

00:10:24 ◼   ► You know, we had like the ones that were colored like the Neos.

00:10:26 ◼   ► Those are really cool.

00:10:26 ◼   ► But we forgot to make an A18 Pro shirt.

00:10:28 ◼   ► Now we have one finally.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Uh the uh the mistake has been corrected.

00:10:33 ◼   ► Uh as for actual new chip shirts, Apple did come out with new chips.

00:10:36 ◼   ► They're not great, but they exist.

00:10:38 ◼   ► M5 Ultra and M5 Ultra Interpo Interposer shirts are here.

00:10:43 ◼   ► I remember how excited I was about the uh original Interposer shirt, but now

00:10:47 ◼   ► my description of it is that Apple just can't stop sticking Max chips together.

00:10:51 ◼   ► Maybe maybe a little bit snarky, but we've always had that shirt of like

00:10:55 ◼   ► the two maxes, like one is rotated and connected to the other one, right?

00:10:58 ◼   ► Max Max.

00:10:59 ◼   ► Anyway, so we do have M5 Ultra and M5 Ultra interposer shirts.

00:11:02 ◼   ► We always like to bring back one shirt from the past that we've sold

00:11:05 ◼   ► in past sales.

00:11:07 ◼   ► And this time we're doing the ATP graffiti shirt which I think we only

00:11:10 ◼   ► sold one other time and is actually one of my favorite shirts.

00:11:13 ◼   ► Uh my kids have a couple of these.

00:11:14 ◼   ► I love it when they wear them.

00:11:15 ◼   ► They seem to wear them a lot.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Maybe it's not that recognizable.

00:11:18 ◼   ► But anyway, it's the ATP logo, but drawn in palms, graffiti, like the palm

00:11:23 ◼   ► handheld the their graffiti uh handwriting recognition.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Like they would have a little guide telling you how to do it, like

00:11:29 ◼   ► start with your pencil here and draw like this.

00:11:30 ◼   ► So we're doing the ATP graffiti shirt again, and again it's not just shirts,

00:11:34 ◼   ► it's long sleeve sweatshirts, all that other stuff.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Then of course we have the ATP logo shirt.

00:11:38 ◼   ► We have the ATP zip hoodie, and the zip hoodie has expanded for the

00:11:41 ◼   ► first time this year so it's a good year to buy zip hoodie.

00:11:43 ◼   ► But you've always sold and it's a very nice, like soft black zip hoodie

00:11:47 ◼   ► with an embroidered ATP logo uh on like the left chest.

00:11:50 ◼   ► And my kids have these and they use them all the time.

00:11:52 ◼   ► They're great.

00:11:53 ◼   ► Uh and it's black because this is the rainbow logo.

00:11:55 ◼   ► It kind of clashes with some stuff.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Well, this time we have, first of all, two new weights.

00:11:59 ◼   ► One or two new weights of we have a a medium weight and a

00:12:01 ◼   ► heavyweight.

00:12:02 ◼   ► I think the medium weight might be same as normal weight.

00:12:03 ◼   ► But anyway, we definitely have a new heavyweight weight of this.

00:12:05 ◼   ► So you can get a thicker one if you want it.

00:12:07 ◼   ► And you can get it in like grayish, bluish, white.

00:12:11 ◼   ► It's just like it's like Apple products.

00:12:12 ◼   ► It's like they're they're not really strong colors because because the really strong colors

00:12:16 ◼   ► would clash with the with the ATP logoose has got so many colors in

00:12:19 ◼   ► it, right?

00:12:19 ◼   ► But you can get a white one and you can get a gray and

00:12:22 ◼   ► like kind of like a coral greenish blue and a bunch of the point

00:12:26 ◼   ► is you can get ATP zip hoodies in different colors and different now.

00:12:29 ◼   ► So please check out that product.

00:12:30 ◼   ► Now finally the bad news.

00:12:33 ◼   ► The ATP polo, the cost, the cost to us, the cost of that polo

00:12:37 ◼   ► blank shirt before we put our embroidered logo on it, has gone up astronomically.

00:12:42 ◼   ► Just I don't even know if we're gonna even sell this again, but I

00:12:45 ◼   ► figured because we just we found out of this late breaking, it's uh oh,

00:12:48 ◼   ► the price got so first of all, the price to you is going up

00:12:50 ◼   ► by a lot too.

00:12:52 ◼   ► But also, I cut the profit margins down to basically zero on this shirt,

00:12:57 ◼   ► and this may be the last time we sell it because it costs so

00:12:59 ◼   ► much money just for the blank shirt before we even put a logo on

00:13:02 ◼   ► it, before there's any kind of profit.

00:13:03 ◼   ► So um our profits on the ATP polo shirt, if you buy it with

00:13:08 ◼   ► the member discount, are measured in cents per shirt.

00:13:12 ◼   ► Cents.

00:13:12 ◼   ► And the only reason you did that is because I didn't want to have

00:13:15 ◼   ► a a a dollar amount that was like fractional.

00:13:17 ◼   ► I wanted to have an integer number of dollars and I didn't want to

00:13:19 ◼   ► lose money in every shirt.

00:13:21 ◼   ► So if you ever wanted an ATP polo shirt, you should probably buy it

00:13:26 ◼   ► now and give us the, you know, handful of uh nickels and dimes that

00:13:29 ◼   ► we're gonna make on each one because we may never sell it again because

00:13:32 ◼   ► the price is just so high.

00:13:33 ◼   ► It is our fanciest shirt, as the description says.

00:13:35 ◼   ► It is very nice.

00:13:36 ◼   ► I have a couple of them, but boy, I don't know what happened with

00:13:39 ◼   ► their price structure, but it is gone.

00:13:41 ◼   ► I don't think they use RAM in the shirts or something.

00:13:43 ◼   ► It's gone up by a lot.

00:13:45 ◼   ► Uh so yeah, get your polos while you still can.

00:13:47 ◼   ► This may be the last time they're ever sold.

00:13:49 ◼   ► And finally we have the ATP hat, which is just a baseball hat with

00:13:51 ◼   ► the embroidered ATP logo.

00:13:52 ◼   ► All right sorry I took so long.

00:13:54 ◼   ► Those are the shirts.

00:13:54 ◼   ► That's store.

00:13:55 ◼   ► Store will be open for three weeks.

00:13:57 ◼   ► If you are an ATP member, remember to go to log into ATP.fm, go

00:14:01 ◼   ► to your member page and get your ATP member discount code that will give

00:14:05 ◼   ► you 15% off everything in the store.

00:14:07 ◼   ► If you're not a member, just become a member, get the discount, and then

00:14:09 ◼   ► cancel.

00:14:10 ◼   ► It's a good thing.

00:14:10 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:14:11 ◼   ► You do this every time.

00:14:13 ◼   ► No, you do not have to cancel.

00:14:15 ◼   ► I mean you can cancel.

00:14:16 ◼   ► You can you can also not cancel.

00:14:17 ◼   ► We encourage you, well, Marco and I, two-thirds of ATP, encourage you to not

00:14:22 ◼   ► cancel.

00:14:22 ◼   ► People do it all the time.

00:14:23 ◼   ► It's we see it happen.

00:14:25 ◼   ► We get a bunch of membership bumps.

00:14:26 ◼   ► People buy from the store and then they cancel, which is fine.

00:14:28 ◼   ► Like get the discount.

00:14:29 ◼   ► It's good.

00:14:29 ◼   ► Also, gift memberships, that's also on the ATP.fm slash store page.

00:14:33 ◼   ► If you want to ask for a gift membership so you don't have to

00:14:36 ◼   ► pay for your own membership, you want to ask for it for the holidays,

00:14:38 ◼   ► you can do that here as a link that you can copy and give

00:14:40 ◼   ► people and say, Here, click this link and buy it for me.

00:14:43 ◼   ► You can buy gift membership from somebody else, another nerdy person in your life

00:14:46 ◼   ► you think might be want to be an ATP member.

00:14:48 ◼   ► That's linked from this page as well.

00:14:50 ◼   ► ATP store, again, you'll hear about this two more times and then the store

00:14:53 ◼   ► will be gone and Casey will yell at you.

00:14:55 ◼   ► That's exactly right.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Yep.

00:14:57 ◼   ► So again, I will say this briefly.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Every single time somebody reaches out and says, Oh no, oh no, I'm the

00:15:05 ◼   ► one.

00:15:06 ◼   ► I did it this time.

00:15:07 ◼   ► It really happens every time.

00:15:09 ◼   ► Like Casey does this whole spiel because and it sounds like it's a joke

00:15:13 ◼   ► and it's not.

00:15:14 ◼   ► It actually really happens every time.

00:15:17 ◼   ► People do write in and joke to us about it, but then there's the

00:15:20 ◼   ► legitimate people who are like, I know ha ha funny, but it actually happened.

00:15:23 ◼   ► Yep.

00:15:24 ◼   ► So be it be not that person.

00:15:26 ◼   ► I almost said be that person.

00:15:27 ◼   ► Don't be that person and instead go to atp.fm slash door.

00:15:31 ◼   ► Thank you to John for sponsoring the show.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Uh all right, let's start with some follow-up.

00:15:37 ◼   ► Uh we need to talk about the home view and there's been a lot

00:15:41 ◼   ► of like snarking and chuckling and also uh theorizing about: hey, when was this

00:15:48 ◼   ► thing, this hardware built?

00:15:51 ◼   ► And according to Mark German uh finished units have been sitting boxed up in

00:15:54 ◼   ► warehouses for the better part of a year waiting for software to catch up.

00:15:58 ◼   ► Whoopsi doopsies.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Yeah, love love that uh concrete info.

00:16:01 ◼   ► Although when we get the hardware, presumably there's usually like some way to tell

00:16:04 ◼   ► from like the serial number or something to know, but yeah, that's that's gotta

00:16:08 ◼   ► hurt.

00:16:08 ◼   ► I mean it makes sense though.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Like when you look at the hardware, like it is basically like regular Apple,

00:16:14 ◼   ► you know, as I as I kind of described as like, you know, the

00:16:16 ◼   ► Apple stock colors of aluminum.

00:16:18 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, it's

00:16:20 ◼   ► an aluminum ra you know, bezeled screen on top of a home pod subwoofer.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Like that's yeah, they could have made that years ago and apparently they did.

00:16:29 ◼   ► Um and yeah, the hard part was the software and Siri.

00:16:33 ◼   ► So that

00:16:34 ◼   ► This is, you know, a little bit interesting, but really not very surprising at

00:16:38 ◼   ► all.

00:16:39 ◼   ► Uh Paul Hearing writes, I was surprised at how expensive HomeView is.

00:16:42 ◼   ► It's almost four times the cost of an Amazon Echo Show 8, which lists

00:16:46 ◼   ► for $149, but is almost always on sale somewhere for around eighty bucks.

00:16:50 ◼   ► I couldn't believe those prices.

00:16:51 ◼   ► So I looked up some prices and we will link to what I looked

00:16:54 ◼   ► up.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Again, Amazon changes prices all the time.

00:16:55 ◼   ► So maybe by the time you follow these links, the prices will be different.

00:16:58 ◼   ► But this is what I looked up.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Or it could be that because you're the person following these links, maybe it'll

00:17:02 ◼   ► change the price for you.

00:17:04 ◼   ► But what John found was the Echo Show 5 was $100, Echo Show 8,

00:17:08 ◼   ► $200, Echo Show 11, $250, Echo Show 15, $350.

00:17:14 ◼   ► John, do you know enough about these to give me the two two second

00:17:17 ◼   ► overview on what the differences are.

00:17:18 ◼   ► I mean I think the numbers are basically just screen size.

00:17:20 ◼   ► So in that case, like with a five inch screen, the Echo Show five

00:17:23 ◼   ► is closer.

00:17:24 ◼   ► But like it j it really just shows the whole the range that uh

00:17:27 ◼   ► Amazon Echo Echo Show is their Amazon Echo thing with a screen on it.

00:17:31 ◼   ► They have four models that span from a hundred to three fifty.

00:17:34 ◼   ► And so Apple still is kind of they're at the high end of that

00:17:37 ◼   ► range, but they're in the range, they're in the mix.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Now granted you're gonna say, okay, well the well, Amazon's three hundred fifty dollar

00:17:42 ◼   ► one has a 15-inch screen, and Apple's $300 one has like a five inch

00:17:46 ◼   ► screen or a six-inch screen.

00:17:47 ◼   ► That's not close.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Well, I still think it is a pretty reasonably priced product.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Again, maybe because they did build them a year ago back when uh all

00:17:55 ◼   ► the components cost less.

00:17:57 ◼   ► But we'll see if the price suddenly increases if they actually sell through all

00:18:01 ◼   ► the home views that they made, which is uh not a sure thing given

00:18:05 ◼   ► how long it took them to try to sell through the big home pods.

00:18:08 ◼   ► And we had some interesting thoughts genuinely interesting thoughts about um wall mounts and

00:18:13 ◼   ► pricing and whatnot.

00:18:14 ◼   ► So M VK writes, My theory is that if the wall mount was priced

00:18:18 ◼   ► less than the tabletop version, people would buy it to save money but never

00:18:21 ◼   ► mounted.

00:18:21 ◼   ► The majority of units in the wild in that scenario would be flat on

00:18:24 ◼   ► tables or stood up with janky cheap hardware and never hung.

00:18:27 ◼   ► So including a base speaker for quote unquote free ensures the majority of them

00:18:31 ◼   ► that get sold will actually look good in homes.

00:18:34 ◼   ► I can't decide I waffle back and forth if I think this is one

00:18:37 ◼   ► hundred percent right or one hundred percent wrong.

00:18:39 ◼   ► I don't think Apple cares how it looks in your home because no one's

00:18:41 ◼   ► gonna you know, I was like, Oh, someone comes over and see that they'll

00:18:44 ◼   ► think it's junky, but like, man, people do all sorts of stuff with Apple

00:18:46 ◼   ► hardware as it is.

00:18:47 ◼   ► But it's an interesting theory.

00:18:48 ◼   ► I mean We'll we'll get one more theory and then I'll give my what

00:18:51 ◼   ► I think is the more obvious uh answer.

00:18:53 ◼   ► But anyway.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I think this is more of a justification than a reason.

00:18:56 ◼   ► I I think it's like it's an it's a post hoc like, well, we

00:19:00 ◼   ► want to capture as much money as possible from professional installers and high end

00:19:03 ◼   ► builds.

00:19:04 ◼   ► Um well all this is also a reason that this might be a decent

00:19:07 ◼   ► idea.

00:19:08 ◼   ► So Ben O'Matic writes, if the wall-mounted model was even fifty dollars less, Amazon

00:19:12 ◼   ► would explode with cheap base units, with speakers, with a mount and a USB-C

00:19:16 ◼   ► connector.

00:19:16 ◼   ► My guess is that Apple doesn't want to incentivize a market that'll result in

00:19:19 ◼   ► lots of cheap off-brand versions of the product on countertops and in social media

00:19:23 ◼   ► feeds.

00:19:24 ◼   ► I think that Amazon's still going to have tons of uh amounts for these

00:19:27 ◼   ► things because remember the ones that Apple commissioned from like Schneider Home or whatever

00:19:30 ◼   ► are insanely expensive.

00:19:32 ◼   ► So you're still gonna see all that stuff.

00:19:33 ◼   ► But yeah, there's lots of theories about how if they made them a different

00:19:36 ◼   ► price, everyone would buy them one without a base.

00:19:37 ◼   ► But I'm not sure about that because I think people like the speaker, I

00:19:40 ◼   ► mean the speaker part of it.

00:19:41 ◼   ► And if they know they're getting one with it's it's so clearly doesn't have

00:19:45 ◼   ► any place for a big speaker in it.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Uh anyway, like I think they're just the same price because that's just an

00:19:49 ◼   ► Apple thing to do, right?

00:19:51 ◼   ► I mean I it it's it's kind of amazing that uh that's not true

00:19:54 ◼   ► of some Apple products, like they for for a a lot of the past,

00:19:58 ◼   ► you know, monitors with and without the like you complained about, didn't the the

00:20:01 ◼   ► Visa mount was the same price as the one without it, but then Apple

00:20:04 ◼   ► adjusted it.

00:20:05 ◼   ► It's rare when Apple does actually make that kind of adjustment.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Usually it's this is the price of the product and you can get the

00:20:10 ◼   ► wall mount or not, and yeah, the cost to us is different, but we

00:20:13 ◼   ► don't pass that on to you.

00:20:14 ◼   ► And that's the Apple way.

00:20:16 ◼   ► All right.

00:20:16 ◼   ► Jan or Jan probably, Weddekind writes, Weddekind.

00:20:19 ◼   ► I'm so sorry.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Just pick one of those and hopefully it worked right.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Uh the best thing about the home view is the dozen Chinese copies that

00:20:26 ◼   ► will drop very soon, probably with OLED and a Linux variant, so we can

00:20:30 ◼   ► tinker with Home Assistant.

00:20:31 ◼   ► To be clear, this is not my pseudonym.

00:20:34 ◼   ► I did not write this, but I agree with this sentiment.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Yeah, that's interesting that like this the one of the effects that Apple has

00:20:40 ◼   ► is regardless of what uh whether or not what Apple has done is a

00:20:44 ◼   ► good idea, is it a good idea to have a little Archer D2 with

00:20:47 ◼   ► it with an arm and a screen on it?

00:20:49 ◼   ► Doesn't matter.

00:20:50 ◼   ► If Apple does it.

00:20:52 ◼   ► People will copy it because it looks like Apple.

00:20:55 ◼   ► And so you hope the thing that Apple does turns out to be a

00:20:57 ◼   ► good idea so that the copies are good products, but very often the copies

00:21:01 ◼   ► are just like Apple in all of the good and bad ways.

00:21:04 ◼   ► And if Apple does something stupid, then you have a million stupid copies remains

00:21:07 ◼   ► to be seen if the home pod form factor or the the home I

00:21:11 ◼   ► did it again.

00:21:12 ◼   ► The home view form factor is in fact the right size and shape for

00:21:15 ◼   ► that.

00:21:15 ◼   ► But either way, there will be copies.

00:21:17 ◼   ► Jimmy writes, quote, who's going to have a hole in their kitchen island to

00:21:22 ◼   ► snake a USB-C cable down?

00:21:24 ◼   ► Quote.

00:21:25 ◼   ► Me.

00:21:25 ◼   ► And Jimmy provided a very helpful image where there is one of those like

00:21:30 ◼   ► desk grommets.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Is that the word I'm that has a what appears to be an iPad

00:21:35 ◼   ► uh on a mount coming uh being powered by power that runs through the

00:21:38 ◼   ► grommet in one of the is that the twelve south dingus that you can

00:21:42 ◼   ► charge, like the travel dingus, something like that.

00:21:44 ◼   ► Anyway, the we'll put a link in the show notes of the picture.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Uh but yeah, sure enough, in a grommet through the kitchen table.

00:21:50 ◼   ► Well yeah, so it's it looks like there's like marble or some kind of

00:21:53 ◼   ► stone on one half and then wood on the other, and thankfully they put

00:21:55 ◼   ► the hole in the wood half.

00:21:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:21:57 ◼   ► Now that being said, like I I I assume this was kind of a

00:21:59 ◼   ► dig at John Gruber's review where he he pointed out like No one ever

00:22:03 ◼   ► has a hole in their kitchen island for this.

00:22:05 ◼   ► Uh we said that on the show.

00:22:06 ◼   ► I thought we said it as well.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Everybody said it.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:09 ◼   ► And I think like it is true that most most kitchen islands don't have

00:22:15 ◼   ► holes in the middle of them.

00:22:16 ◼   ► And one of the biggest reasons why, I mean, besides the fact that, you

00:22:18 ◼   ► know, people tend to not have new kitchen islands installed that often.

00:22:22 ◼   ► And so it's it's not something that you gotta that, you know, every couple

00:22:25 ◼   ► of years you have to reevaluate your needs.

00:22:27 ◼   ► Uh but also um, you do have to worry about like what if liquids

00:22:32 ◼   ► spill and pour into that, what are they pouring into?

00:22:35 ◼   ► And is it going to damage anything?

00:22:37 ◼   ► Are you going to be able clean it?

00:22:38 ◼   ► Is it going to be a problem?

00:22:40 ◼   ► And so yeah, most of the time it people don't design things.

00:22:44 ◼   ► This way.

00:22:44 ◼   ► So it is a valid complaint of like how you can plug this thing

00:22:47 ◼   ► in.

00:22:47 ◼   ► But I also think like most people are not going to have the home

00:22:51 ◼   ► view in the middle of an aisle.

00:22:53 ◼   ► That's kinda like a weird position.

00:22:54 ◼   ► They're going to have it like, you know, w when you look at where

00:22:57 ◼   ► do people put Amazon Echoes and stuff they put 'em like against the wall.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Oh, yeah first of all, they put them where the outlets are, um, but

00:23:02 ◼   ► they put 'em like in the corner or on the part of the island

00:23:06 ◼   ► that that touches the wall or whatever.

00:23:07 ◼   ► It's it's not something that it that you know people, despite the weird Apple

00:23:11 ◼   ► commercial, like are gonna be swiveling around all the time.

00:23:14 ◼   ► Like I think mostly it it goes like in a corner or against a

00:23:17 ◼   ► wall.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:17 ◼   ► As I alluded to last time, I think it is currently against code in

00:23:22 ◼   ► at least some states in the US to have outlets on the side of

00:23:24 ◼   ► kitchen islands that used to be allowed and I think they changed it.

00:23:27 ◼   ► I might be wrong about that, but there's there's a bunch of electrical issues

00:23:30 ◼   ► rel let's just say uh electrical issues related to kitchen islands and where they

00:23:34 ◼   ► get power and like you said what it what's going on underneath the kitchen

00:23:37 ◼   ► island.

00:23:38 ◼   ► Yeah but I believe uh it was explained to me when we we did

00:23:40 ◼   ► a kitchen renovation a few years ago and um we were actually told specifically

00:23:44 ◼   ► that they can't put an outlet on the side of the island anymore uh

00:23:47 ◼   ► because apparently the rationale that this electrician said was that um people can like

00:23:52 ◼   ► if you walk by it and you accidentally pull something like you if you

00:23:55 ◼   ► hit the outlet and you pull something off the counter that's electrically powered, um,

00:23:58 ◼   ► that can be bad.

00:24:00 ◼   ► And typically the codes are designed to avoid hazards like that.

00:24:04 ◼   ► All right.

00:24:05 ◼   ► Uh we have a couple more notes with regard to the home pod.

00:24:08 ◼   ► Uh there now I did it.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Home view uh Derek Martin writes, I was surprised to see that the home

00:24:13 ◼   ► view screen doesn't have identical dimensions to the duo screen because they're so close

00:24:18 ◼   ► and and it could save developers time and money.

00:24:20 ◼   ► I'm with you on it seems like it would have been similar, but I

00:24:23 ◼   ► don't really think it's gonna save developers much time 'cause there really is no

00:24:26 ◼   ► third party story for this.

00:24:28 ◼   ► It's not a it's not an app platform, like CarPlay already adapts to a

00:24:31 ◼   ► bunch of different shapes.

00:24:32 ◼   ► So I get I get the idea, like if it was one point four

00:24:34 ◼   ► by one instead of one by one.

00:24:36 ◼   ► But I think it being square definitely is the design they were going for

00:24:39 ◼   ► with the little cute factor.

00:24:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:41 ◼   ► But also like the so much of the UI is widgets and you know

00:24:46 ◼   ► things that are things that are basically like you know which is n in

00:24:49 ◼   ► new contexts.

00:24:50 ◼   ► And the developer story for this, I mean first of all, I I the

00:24:54 ◼   ► reason I laughed is that a Apple does not care to save developers time

00:24:58 ◼   ► and money.

00:24:59 ◼   ► Ever.

00:24:59 ◼   ► That's also true.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Apple will prioritize what's the coolest version of this product we can make.

00:25:05 ◼   ► Period.

00:25:05 ◼   ► And developers, do what you gotta do.

00:25:07 ◼   ► Like that's that's it.

00:25:09 ◼   ► But uh anyway.

00:25:11 ◼   ► The main developer story here is widgets, and there is a small square category

00:25:17 ◼   ► of widget.

00:25:17 ◼   ► The same one that on your iPhone, if you do like, you know, the

00:25:19 ◼   ► smallest widget size, it's like it's you know two by two square uh icons.

00:25:23 ◼   ► That size is what's shown in standby mode.

00:25:27 ◼   ► And developers, like that's the only thing we can really do.

00:25:30 ◼   ► And it seems to be using that same kind of system.

00:25:33 ◼   ► And so they just they just blow that size up and show it at

00:25:37 ◼   ► lar at larger, you know, pixel densities and render large but it's still that

00:25:41 ◼   ► k that class of widget being shown here.

00:25:44 ◼   ► Those widgets are square.

00:25:46 ◼   ► And so Apple can very easily tile, you know, a two by two grid

00:25:49 ◼   ► of them and do whatever they want over there.

00:25:51 ◼   ► So I think there's a lot of things they're taking advantage of with like

00:25:54 ◼   ► yeah doing a square screen for a bunch of square widgets that are both

00:25:57 ◼   ► theirs and third party.

00:25:58 ◼   ► Um and as for the car play API side of things, car play screens

00:26:02 ◼   ► have never been fixed resolutions and sizes.

00:26:04 ◼   ► They've always varied and been kind of like, you know, a a a general

00:26:08 ◼   ► you know class of interaction that like, well, you can expect to have a

00:26:12 ◼   ► r approximately this minimum size, but it can also be massive, uh, or it

00:26:16 ◼   ► can be different shapes and have different capabilities, and CarPlay itself is is fairly

00:26:20 ◼   ► adaptive to different sizes.

00:26:22 ◼   ► So in in this particular case of the home view, uh these concerns were

00:26:27 ◼   ► not that significant.

00:26:28 ◼   ► Finally from Rick Allen, will Marco be adding car play support to unforgetful so

00:26:33 ◼   ► it will sh wor uh show up and work on the home view?

00:26:36 ◼   ► This reading this in the show notes earlier, uh, is the first time I've

00:26:40 ◼   ► ever considered this.

00:26:41 ◼   ► I don't know if Apple would let a reminders app apply for the CarPlay

00:26:47 ◼   ► entitlement and get it.

00:26:48 ◼   ► 'Cause like you not everyone can actually make car play apps.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Reminder.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Look out for that pothole.

00:26:53 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Like you so you have to apply for the special car play entitlement and

00:26:58 ◼   ► then you have to agree to a bunch of conditions, you know, things like

00:27:01 ◼   ► you're not going to like kind of wedge a game into it so people

00:27:05 ◼   ► would be distracted while driving like by playing your text adventure, like through CarPlay

00:27:09 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Like you have to like agree to certain terms that you're gonna be, you

00:27:12 ◼   ► know, reasonably safe and and not try to get around restrictions and stuff like

00:27:15 ◼   ► that.

00:27:16 ◼   ► Um but Apple is, I believe, human reviewing all of those.

00:27:19 ◼   ► I think.

00:27:20 ◼   ► They they at least used to be, and I think they still are.

00:27:22 ◼   ► So I don't think they would let that in.

00:27:25 ◼   ► But if they did, not a bad idea.

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00:29:18 ◼   ► All right, let's talk Apple TV.

00:29:20 ◼   ► Uh we had some discussion with regard to the price history.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Uh John, can you tell me about this YouTube link, please?

00:29:27 ◼   ► Yeah, um I had a recollection of this but didn't remember the details, so

00:29:30 ◼   ► I looked it up afterwards and here we are.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Uh in an at the Apple event in March 2015, I forget what kind

00:29:36 ◼   ► of event it was, but I don't think it was like a major one.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Uh at that event, Apple lowered the price of the Apple TV from $99

00:29:44 ◼   ► to $69.

00:29:45 ◼   ► I had totally forgotten that it was that low.

00:29:48 ◼   ► I was gonna guess that they had lowered it to $99.

00:29:50 ◼   ► No, they lowered it to $69.

00:29:52 ◼   ► So that $69 in March 2015 is equivalent to $100 today, roughly.

00:29:57 ◼   ► So still pretty cheap.

00:29:58 ◼   ► Uh and this was the third generation Apple T V, basically the one before

00:30:02 ◼   ► the Apple T V H D was introduced in September of twenty fifteen.

00:30:05 ◼   ► So it was kind of the end of life of the non the pre

00:30:08 ◼   ► H D Apple T V, but it was still that same black puck.

00:30:11 ◼   ► I think it was a different uh uh you know it was like flatter

00:30:14 ◼   ► and squatter or whatever.

00:30:15 ◼   ► But anyway, just to give you an idea of how far we've come for

00:30:18 ◼   ► Apple TV prices.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Again, I'm not counting like the weird other one that ran like Mac OS

00:30:24 ◼   ► 10.4 variant or whatever.

00:30:26 ◼   ► I'm talking about the little black puck thingy, you could get it for sixty-nine

00:30:29 ◼   ► dollars in twenty fifteen.

00:30:31 ◼   ► Uh Glenn Feischmann made a chart of all of them, including uh inflation adjusted

00:30:35 ◼   ► numbers and the actual price adjustments and absolute values, and it's fascinating to look

00:30:39 ◼   ► at, although a little bit confusing, but we will link it in the show

00:30:41 ◼   ► notes.

00:30:42 ◼   ► And John, just as a reminder, what's the price of the current uh Apple

00:30:45 ◼   ► TV remote by itself?

00:30:47 ◼   ► It's not sixty-nine dollars, but it's close.

00:30:49 ◼   ► It's fifty-nine dollars.

00:30:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:51 ◼   ► Fifty nine fifty-nine dollars for the remote.

00:30:54 ◼   ► All right.

00:30:55 ◼   ► Uh microphones.

00:30:56 ◼   ► There's some new Farfield microphones in the Apple TV box itself and Jason writes,

00:31:00 ◼   ► Have fun trying to Apple TV to answer any of your questions without the

00:31:04 ◼   ► four home pods nearby hijacking the Siri requests with the grimacing emoji.

00:31:08 ◼   ► 'Cause that's the picture they show they always show like, Oh, you're Apple T

00:31:11 ◼   ► V and the four home pods.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Good good luck talking to the little black box.

00:31:15 ◼   ► Uh that is true.

00:31:16 ◼   ► However, uh if you're a learned individual, you don't home pods in your house

00:31:21 ◼   ► and you don't have to worry about this.

00:31:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:23 ◼   ► And and to be clear, according to Apple, and a lot of the time

00:31:28 ◼   ► this works, Apple's devices will coordinate with each other so that they don't all

00:31:33 ◼   ► answer.

00:31:33 ◼   ► They will figure out who's supposed to answer.

00:31:35 ◼   ► They will pick the quote unquote best one and that one will answer.

00:31:38 ◼   ► That's how it's supposed to work.

00:31:40 ◼   ► Sometimes it does work that way.

00:31:42 ◼   ► But if you have a lot of Apple devices, you know it doesn't always

00:31:45 ◼   ► work that way.

00:31:46 ◼   ► For example, if you say, hey Dingus, to your phone that's on the desk

00:31:49 ◼   ► in front of and you ear a home pod three rooms away answer, you

00:31:54 ◼   ► know that this system remains imperfect.

00:31:57 ◼   ► Indeed, it does.

00:31:58 ◼   ► All right, with regard to Av one, which uh the following is via Michael

00:32:02 ◼   ► Barnes, among others, uh, the new Apple TV has AV1 hardware decoding thanks to

00:32:06 ◼   ► A18 SOC.

00:32:07 ◼   ► Here's the feature comparison of the second, third, and fourth gen Apple TV models

00:32:11 ◼   ► from Rebit Reddit, uh Rebit.

00:32:13 ◼   ► It's Ribbit and Reddit put together.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Uh anyway, from Reddit.

00:32:16 ◼   ► All right, so then with that in mind, we can look at the announcement

00:32:19 ◼   ► dates for uh the last few generations of Apple TV, starting from the oldest,

00:32:23 ◼   ► April twentieth of twenty twenty-one, then April eighteenth of twenty twenty-two, a scant five

00:32:29 ◼   ► hundred and forty-six days later.

00:32:32 ◼   ► Then after that, October thirteenth of twenty twenty-six, one thousand four hundred and fifty-six

00:32:41 ◼   ► days later.

00:32:42 ◼   ► My word.

00:32:42 ◼   ► That's the thing that stood out to me on this chart.

00:32:44 ◼   ► The chart was basically saying who, you know, which things have Av one, hardware

00:32:47 ◼   ► decoding or whatever, but also had the release dates.

00:32:48 ◼   ► And it's like, boy, yeah, those are stretching out a lot, aren't they?

00:32:51 ◼   ► It's really not great.

00:32:53 ◼   ► Uh it's also worth noting that YouTube and Netflix both desire to two and

00:32:57 ◼   ► do encode things in A V one.

00:32:59 ◼   ► Now will this get sent to the Apple T V?

00:33:01 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:33:02 ◼   ► But that is what they use at or that they at least vend that

00:33:05 ◼   ► to other devices.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what people are excited about A V one because it's like, hey,

00:33:09 ◼   ► better picture quality with the same bandwidth or sometimes better picture quality with even

00:33:13 ◼   ► lower bandwidth.

00:33:14 ◼   ► It's better codec, yada yada.

00:33:15 ◼   ► So that's why people that's why you might care that your Apple EV has

00:33:18 ◼   ► Av1.

00:33:19 ◼   ► But it only matters if either you're using some app like Infuse or something

00:33:23 ◼   ► that can you know, read A V one files and decode it on the

00:33:26 ◼   ► hardware, or if big services like YouTube, Netflix, and other streamers actually start somehow

00:33:32 ◼   ► detecting that you have AV1 hardware decoding and start sending you an A V

00:33:36 ◼   ► one encoded stream that it looks better than the previous streams.

00:33:39 ◼   ► But who knows if they'll even do that.

00:33:40 ◼   ► That's kind of up to Apple to coordinate with them.

00:33:43 ◼   ► And it's debatable whether anyone would even know.

00:33:45 ◼   ► But eventually, I don't know, let's say 20 years from now, they'll all have

00:33:49 ◼   ► AV1R under coding.

00:33:51 ◼   ► And then uh you know, streaming services can all switch to it.

00:33:54 ◼   ► All right.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Uh John, there are a lot of very, very grumpy nerds that Apple did

00:34:00 ◼   ► not include the thing that they must include in the new Apple TV.

00:34:05 ◼   ► How could they not, John Syracusa?

00:34:07 ◼   ► Uh and Andrew Hagland was one of the people who uh was curious about

00:34:12 ◼   ► what does this even mean?

00:34:13 ◼   ► So Andrew writes, What do you mean when you say that the new Apple

00:34:16 ◼   ► TV does not have audio pass-through?

00:34:18 ◼   ► And I will add as a corollary, why do we care?

00:34:22 ◼   ► So, I thought you were gonna jump in there, but you didn't and that's

00:34:25 ◼   ► fine.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Uh I will move right along and tell you that Caleb Dennison uh has

00:34:29 ◼   ► a YouTube short, I think.

00:34:31 ◼   ► It's uh what whatever it is, it's a short YouTube video, uh, where Caleb

00:34:34 ◼   ► explains.

00:34:35 ◼   ► And Caleb says the Apple TV 4K has always taken a bitstream audio signal

00:34:40 ◼   ► from streaming services or your personal media collection and converted it into a signal

00:34:44 ◼   ► that is ready to be amplified by your receiver or a TV or a

00:34:48 ◼   ► soundbar.

00:34:49 ◼   ► The problem is that when Apple does the conversion, it's tripping out a bunch

00:34:52 ◼   ► of information that from the audio signal, which prevents your receiver or soundbar from

00:34:55 ◼   ► having certain kinds of control over it.

00:34:57 ◼   ► It can affect receiver and soundbar dialogue normalization features, so you know, bringing up

00:35:02 ◼   ► the volume of dialogue and only dialogue, for example, or how channel levels can

00:35:06 ◼   ► be adjusted.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And a lot of users report that Apple's audput doesn't sound as dynamic, punchy,

00:35:10 ◼   ► or interesting as the output from other streaming devices.

00:35:13 ◼   ► Audio pass-through, or lossless audio pass-through, allows the signal to go straight through the

00:35:18 ◼   ► Apple TV 4K to your soundbar, soundbar or receiver.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Where you have more control and sometimes get better sound.

00:35:24 ◼   ► And that's why A V nerds are upset about it continuing to not be

00:35:28 ◼   ► there, because they probably have a fancy receiver, or at the very least, some

00:35:32 ◼   ► kind of sound bar or some other equipment that they bought because of its

00:35:35 ◼   ► features, because of the control it gives them over the sound or whatever.

00:35:38 ◼   ► Regular people who are just connecting their Apple TV to the TV and don't

00:35:41 ◼   ► any external speakers don't care about this.

00:35:42 ◼   ► But yeah, the the audiovisual nerds are like, come on, give us pass-through because

00:35:47 ◼   ► they don't want the Apple TV doing this role.

00:35:49 ◼   ► They have other equipment that they want to use for that purpose that they

00:35:52 ◼   ► bought for that purpose.

00:35:53 ◼   ► It should just be a software change.

00:35:54 ◼   ► It should roll at any time they want, but yeah, they're annoyed that it

00:35:57 ◼   ► doesn't exist.

00:35:58 ◼   ► I mentioned it last episode a couple times, but didn't explain what it was.

00:36:01 ◼   ► And Caleb Dennison is one of my favorite uh teams TV reviewer uh people

00:36:06 ◼   ► who recently went independent after quite a struggle, so check out his channel.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Finally for follow-up, Apple says the iPhone Duo has re a replaceable cover layer,

00:36:14 ◼   ► as they call it, above the display.

00:36:16 ◼   ► Uh Joe Rosignal at Matt Mac Rumors writes in a recent interview with content

00:36:20 ◼   ► creator Angelica Siliani Fendi, uh Apple's vice president of hardware engineering Kate Bergeron revealed

00:36:26 ◼   ► that the iPhone Duo's nanotexture cover layer above the inner display can be removed

00:36:29 ◼   ► and replaced.

00:36:30 ◼   ► Quote, it's actually replaceable, which is a really nice thing for the customer that

00:36:34 ◼   ► you can peel off that layer and get a new one, said Bergeron.

00:36:37 ◼   ► To be clear, Kate Bergeron is not saying that one of us will peel

00:36:41 ◼   ► this off.

00:36:42 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:36:43 ◼   ► You do not want to do that.

00:36:44 ◼   ► That's very bad.

00:36:45 ◼   ► So So continuing from uh Joe, in the US customers who purchase Apple Care

00:36:49 ◼   ► Plus coverage for the iPhone Duo can get the cover layer replaced for nineteen

00:36:52 ◼   ► dollars according to Apple's website.

00:36:53 ◼   ► The cost to replace the cover layer without coverage has yet to be disclosed,

00:36:56 ◼   ► or at least at the time of writing of that.

00:36:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's fifty bucks.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I was gonna say I thought we had seen a price since then.

00:37:02 ◼   ► Anyways, the cover layer helps to hide the crease in the middle ofner display.

00:37:06 ◼   ► Burger on said Apple did a quote significant amount of engineering work, quote, to

00:37:11 ◼   ► ensure that this layer remains in good condition for as long as possible, but

00:37:14 ◼   ► customers will have the option to replace it if it wears down or the

00:37:16 ◼   ► crease becomes more visible over time.

00:37:18 ◼   ► It'sn't mentioned in the keynote, but when we're talking about it before, especially when

00:37:22 ◼   ► the rumors about using it with the stylus came out, it's like, all right,

00:37:25 ◼   ► so it's a matte surface and it's bending and you can use it with

00:37:27 ◼   ► a stylus.

00:37:28 ◼   ► What is gonna happen in terms of wear and tear on that surface?

00:37:31 ◼   ► Because it can't be a piece of glass like on the nanotextured iPad because

00:37:35 ◼   ► it bends.

00:37:35 ◼   ► Oh I mean it is like it's a very thin piece of glass.

00:37:37 ◼   ► You know what I mean you know what I mean.

00:37:38 ◼   ► It's can't be like a a rigid piece of glass that doesn't bend.

00:37:42 ◼   ► And so what is this gonna be like in terms of durability?

00:37:46 ◼   ► And the answer is that it's just a wear item.

00:37:47 ◼   ► It's like brake pads, right?

00:37:49 ◼   ► You you you know, it you use it and if it starts getting scuffed

00:37:53 ◼   ► or messed up, you can replace it and relatively cheaply.

00:37:57 ◼   ► Again, if you Apple Care Plus, uh you have Apple Care Plus, twenty dollars.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Can you think of any repair to any Apple product, even with Apple Care

00:38:04 ◼   ► Plus, that costs twenty dollars?

00:38:05 ◼   ► That's pretty cheap.

00:38:06 ◼   ► And without Apple Care Plus, I believe.

00:38:08 ◼   ► I believe it is fifty bucks.

00:38:10 ◼   ► Um of course if you have to replace the entire screen, that's a thousand

00:38:13 ◼   ► bucks.

00:38:14 ◼   ► So yeah, uh it's good that it has a wear layer on top, but

00:38:17 ◼   ► it but keep in mind that because it has a wear layer, that probably

00:38:20 ◼   ► means that layer will in fact wear.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Wear.

00:38:23 ◼   ► That being said though, like the the reviewers, like some some of the reviewers

00:38:26 ◼   ► have tested the durability of that layer, and it seems pretty good.

00:38:31 ◼   ► Like it's not obviously it's not invincible, nothing is, but it it seems like

00:38:35 ◼   ► from the test so far that it is it is seemingly better than people

00:38:39 ◼   ► think.

00:38:39 ◼   ► It's it isn't just like a piece of plastic.

00:38:41 ◼   ► Like it's it seems like a technical.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Well yeah, it like it isn't like an eight dollar Amazon screen protector.

00:38:47 ◼   ► It actually seems like it's you know pretty pretty sturdy.

00:38:50 ◼   ► All right.

00:38:51 ◼   ► So Marco, what were you doing yesterday out of curiosity?

00:38:55 ◼   ► I was at an iPhone duo, I believe it was called a creator showcase?

00:38:59 ◼   ► Was that

00:39:01 ◼   ► right.

00:39:01 ◼   ► It was an event that Apple put on in Manhattan uh, that where they

00:39:05 ◼   ► invited a bunch of people from the press and a bunch of developers, uh,

00:39:10 ◼   ► and the the developers it was like it was kinda like a mini keynote

00:39:14 ◼   ► situation where like it's like, you know, these developers have been you know, we

00:39:17 ◼   ► brought them in from various companies, you know, people like Netflix, M L B,

00:39:21 ◼   ► The New York Times, like, you know, you know, high profile or in in

00:39:24 ◼   ► a few cases some indie developers, and they've they've had a few weeks with

00:39:27 ◼   ► duo units to develop and make really cool versions of their apps on them.

00:39:31 ◼   ► And then so they invited members of the press to come basically walk around

00:39:35 ◼   ► and handle the iPhone duo ahead of time uh of the uh of the

00:39:39 ◼   ► official release tomorrow um and, you know, play with these f you know, fun

00:39:45 ◼   ► apps that that these companies had made and have the com have representatives from

00:39:48 ◼   ► the companies like kind of give little tours and show off their apps and

00:39:51 ◼   ► and kinda you know, basically like exactly I I think you know Apple used

00:39:55 ◼   ► the word showcase.

00:39:56 ◼   ► I think the sh showcase is a perfect word for it.

00:39:58 ◼   ► It was like a demo event where we got to walk around.

00:40:00 ◼   ► Casey and I got to actually like, you know, handle the iPhone Duo and

00:40:03 ◼   ► use it um in this, you know, somewhat limited way, but still like it

00:40:07 ◼   ► we got to actually hold it and see it and you know.

00:40:09 ◼   ► So that was that was really cool.

00:40:10 ◼   ► And uh and of course as I mentioned earlier, Casey and I got to

00:40:13 ◼   ► see each other, which was also really nice.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Yep.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Um not at a jam band concert this time.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Um although next time it will be again.

00:40:20 ◼   ► Yeah, we'll make up for it really quickly.

00:40:22 ◼   ► So don't worry.

00:40:22 ◼   ► Um, but uh it was really fun.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Uh it was a really cool event.

00:40:26 ◼   ► Um and we got to handle the duo and that was also really fun.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:30 ◼   ► So um I have a ton of thoughts, all of which are extremely poorly

00:40:37 ◼   ► considered because while we did go around to all these like stations um to

00:40:42 ◼   ► kind of try all these different apps and whatnot, uh it we weren't being

00:40:47 ◼   ► monitored in the sense that like we could do whatever we wanted with these

00:40:49 ◼   ► phones within reason, but I at least for for the two of us, I'm

00:40:53 ◼   ► sure I can speak for Marco in saying that like we didn't want to

00:40:55 ◼   ► just sit there and like go screwing around with other people's apps as somebody's

00:40:58 ◼   ► like trying to engage with us about their particular app.

00:41:01 ◼   ► So we got to play with the duo some I folded and unfolded it

00:41:04 ◼   ► a zillion times.

00:41:05 ◼   ► Um I got to have a look at it.

00:41:07 ◼   ► The the f the reactions I'm having today are based on what happened yesterday

00:41:12 ◼   ► morning and tomorrow morning, in less than twelve hours, in theory.

00:41:17 ◼   ► I will have my iPhone, oh, spoiler alert, but in I will have my

00:41:20 ◼   ► iPhone duo in my hand.

00:41:21 ◼   ► So now I'm ahead and John's very angry at me.

00:41:23 ◼   ► My bad.

00:41:24 ◼   ► But um but uh suffice to say, th these these thoughts are poorly considered,

00:41:29 ◼   ► and I am reserving the right to completely change my mind.

00:41:32 ◼   ► But with that said, um the device from a hardware perspective is extremely cool.

00:41:41 ◼   ► It is extremely, extremely cool.

00:41:43 ◼   ► It's heavy, but not in an off-putting way, or at least I didn't think

00:41:47 ◼   ► so.

00:41:48 ◼   ► And Marco, please interrupt me if you have thought.

00:41:49 ◼   ► Oh, I have lots of thoughts.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Don't worry.

00:41:51 ◼   ► You get you get through your surf yours first.

00:41:53 ◼   ► Don't worry.

00:41:53 ◼   ► Um so I was it was heavy, but not in a uh burdensome way.

00:41:59 ◼   ► It it felt like sturdy for lack of a better word.

00:42:02 ◼   ► Uh on the topic of weight, by the way, I don't if we get

00:42:04 ◼   ► to the other iPhone Doer reviews we'll have this, but I was surprised a

00:42:07 ◼   ► couple of them pulled out the actual weight in grams of the iPhone Duo,

00:42:11 ◼   ► which I hadn't really compared to the other phones.

00:42:13 ◼   ► It's not actually that much more than the uh iPhone Pro Max.

00:42:19 ◼   ► Or maybe it was slightly less.

00:42:21 ◼   ► I forget.

00:42:21 ◼   ► We'll look it up.

00:42:22 ◼   ► But it it's it's in the ballpark of the Pro of of the the

00:42:24 ◼   ► Pro Max, which surprised me 'cause I just assumed it would be so much

00:42:28 ◼   ► heavier than their Pro Max.

00:42:29 ◼   ► But yeah, uh as with anything with the perception of weight, if you make

00:42:33 ◼   ► a very small thing that weighs the same amount as a very large thing,

00:42:35 ◼   ► the large thing feels lighter and it that's definitely an effect here.

00:42:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:38 ◼   ► Well and also like, you know, the it is heavier than the max.

00:42:40 ◼   ► It's like two hundred and fifty something grams, grams of and the max is

00:42:43 ◼   ► um somewhere and the pro the pros like two twenty something and the max

00:42:46 ◼   ► is kinda somewhere in the middle.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Um but those kind of weight differences, you know, going from like two hundred

00:42:50 ◼   ► and twenty something to two hundred and fifty something, that matters a lot.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Like especially i in perceptual feel.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Um and for something that you're holding in your hands and is bouncing around

00:43:01 ◼   ► in your pockets, like it that those differences matter a lot.

00:43:05 ◼   ► You know, like we're we are, as we'll talk about later, we are somewhat

00:43:08 ◼   ► close to what we expect to be an event where we're gonna have lighter

00:43:12 ◼   ► laptops uh announced.

00:43:13 ◼   ► And if laptops shrink by, you know, 10 or 15% in weight, that's very

00:43:18 ◼   ► noticeable.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Like it it it matters.

00:43:20 ◼   ► It matters a lot.

00:43:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:22 ◼   ► So the weight I didn't find bad.

00:43:24 ◼   ► The hinge, um, the operation of the hinge, using the hinge, absolutely and reviewers

00:43:30 ◼   ► have clocked this as well.

00:43:31 ◼   ► Absolutely a two-handed thing.

00:43:33 ◼   ► I don't suspect that that's something that people will be able to do um

00:43:38 ◼   ► with one hand or at least not easily.

00:43:40 ◼   ► But don't don't hear what I'm not saying.

00:43:42 ◼   ► It's not hard to use the hinge.

00:43:45 ◼   ► It's just um calibrated for lack of a better word, that you're gonna need

00:43:49 ◼   ► two hands to do it.

00:43:50 ◼   ► Weight update, iPhone Duo, two hundred and fifty-four grams, iPhone eighteen pro max two

00:43:57 ◼   ► hundred and forty nine.

00:43:58 ◼   ► It is a five gram difference.

00:44:01 ◼   ► Oh that's really not much.

00:44:02 ◼   ► But then what's the and then what's the regular size Pro?

00:44:05 ◼   ► two hundred eleven.

00:44:06 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:44:06 ◼   ► See that's that's a Substantial

00:44:10 ◼   ► because the the Pro Max does always feel heavy, but is entirely about how

00:44:13 ◼   ► like big is it in like a a length and width, you know what

00:44:16 ◼   ► I mean it's just perception.

00:44:17 ◼   ► It's uh but that you know, perception is reality when it comes to does

00:44:21 ◼   ► this feel heavy or not.

00:44:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:23 ◼   ► Uh the hinge was great.

00:44:25 ◼   ► The crease in on the inside display.

00:44:30 ◼   ► It is there, but in my personal opinion, all of us, including me, fretting

00:44:36 ◼   ► about the crease was misplaced angst and and agita and uh nervousness.

00:44:42 ◼   ► I think the crease is a nothing burger.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Now, will it be worse in a year?

00:44:46 ◼   ► Maybe, but the video reviewers seem to say otherwise.

00:44:48 ◼   ► We'll no Absolutely.

00:44:50 ◼   ► It'll be worse in a year.

00:44:51 ◼   ► Absolutely it will.

00:44:52 ◼   ► Okay, that's fair.

00:44:53 ◼   ► But will it be way worse?

00:44:55 ◼   ► Will it be noticeably worse?

00:44:57 ◼   ► Yes.

00:44:57 ◼   ► I'm so convinced.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:45:01 ◼   ► We'll get to the reviews.

00:45:02 ◼   ► I've watched a lot of reviews about this and that seemed very the the

00:45:06 ◼   ► very common consensus conclusion.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Now, will it be bothersome?

00:45:09 ◼   ► No, probably not.

00:45:10 ◼   ► That's what I'm driving at.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Yeah, like like it's it's not like it's like, oh, I can't use this

00:45:14 ◼   ► because, like, first of all, folding phones have existed for years and years, and

00:45:17 ◼   ► people use them with horrendous creases in them.

00:45:19 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:45:20 ◼   ► Like it's not it doesn't stop you from using the phone, especially if you

00:45:23 ◼   ► arrange the images on it and don't crease, which we know Apple doesn't put

00:45:27 ◼   ► things in the crease, right?

00:45:28 ◼   ► It'll be fine.

00:45:29 ◼   ► But speaking of wear items, the screen itself is a wear item with respect

00:45:34 ◼   ► to the crease.

00:45:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:35 ◼   ► But I it's also going to be a lot like your phone's battery life,

00:45:39 ◼   ► where it's not going to change overnight.

00:45:41 ◼   ► It's going to be a gradual shift towards less good over the course of

00:45:46 ◼   ► the you know the years that you own this phone.

00:45:48 ◼   ► Well I think it's also kind of like driving a new car off the

00:45:50 ◼   ► lot where the depreciation happens in a really big chunk the second you drive

00:45:54 ◼   ► it off the lot and then gradually after that.

00:45:56 ◼   ► A lot of the reviewers have shown that when you take it out of

00:45:59 ◼   ► the box, it's a perfect.

00:46:01 ◼   ► If you open and close it twenty times, noticeable decrease.

00:46:04 ◼   ► And then it's gradual slope from there.

00:46:07 ◼   ► Really?

00:46:07 ◼   ► I that's interesting.

00:46:08 ◼   ► I I yeah.

00:46:10 ◼   ► I can't confirm nor deny, but I I what I gle I mean I

00:46:14 ◼   ► watched all the videos that you linked and we will link in the show

00:46:16 ◼   ► notes.

00:46:17 ◼   ► And what I got from that was, yeah, you might notice it.

00:46:20 ◼   ► And I'm sure John would notice it, but you know, Captain Super Sense over

00:46:23 ◼   ► here.

00:46:24 ◼   ► But for a regular person, I I d I I really don't think it'll

00:46:27 ◼   ► be much.

00:46:27 ◼   ► But you know what?

00:46:28 ◼   ► We don't need to continue to bicker about this because we'll know in a

00:46:30 ◼   ► year.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Um the thing uh the the dis the displays, the outer display, the fidelity

00:46:35 ◼   ► of the outer display was great.

00:46:37 ◼   ► The fidelity of the inner display probably even better.

00:46:41 ◼   ► I'm now maybe numerically and like um if you look at the specs, maybe

00:46:44 ◼   ► I'm wrong about that, but it's it looked wonderful.

00:46:47 ◼   ► Um I thought they both looked great.

00:46:49 ◼   ► The anti-glare mat, whatever they're calling it thing on the inside was great.

00:46:54 ◼   ► However

00:46:55 ◼   ► the thing that put me off the most about the iPhone Duo, and I'm

00:47:00 ◼   ► not sure if it's the particular apps I was looking at, if it was

00:47:03 ◼   ► this impeccable lighting in this Apple space that we were in, uh, which was

00:47:07 ◼   ► gorgeous, by the way, just absurdly pretty.

00:47:10 ◼   ► But nevertheless, um, I don't know what it was.

00:47:13 ◼   ► And Marco, when I finally shut up and give you a chance to talk,

00:47:15 ◼   ► I'm curious what your two cents are.

00:47:18 ◼   ► But the um not whole punch, but the the the FaceTime camera that's on

00:47:22 ◼   ► the big display, the one that's under the display, the not whole, but hole

00:47:27 ◼   ► for that was very, very visually loud to me.

00:47:32 ◼   ► Astonishingly so.

00:47:33 ◼   ► I think I'm overblowing it a bit, and I'll admit that.

00:47:36 ◼   ► But I was expecting to barely be able to see it.

00:47:38 ◼   ► And oh baby, I saw it.

00:47:40 ◼   ► In conversely, I was expecting to be able to crease.

00:47:43 ◼   ► Eh, if you look just right, you can see it.

00:47:46 ◼   ► And if you're running your finger across the center of the screen, later.

00:47:48 ◼   ► Screen laterally, you can feel it.

00:47:50 ◼   ► But otherwise, to me, the crease was 100% a nothing burger.

00:47:55 ◼   ► But the camera on the in on the big display, that was so noticeable

00:48:01 ◼   ► that I found it Very off-putting.

00:48:04 ◼   ► And you know why that was noticeable?

00:48:06 ◼   ► Because there's no mat there, among other things.

00:48:08 ◼   ► That's right.

00:48:08 ◼   ► The n the nanotexture mat stuff stops at the camera.

00:48:11 ◼   ► So like there's nothing they can do about it there because basically like they've

00:48:14 ◼   ► intentionally made a surface texture difference.

00:48:18 ◼   ► They have to do it because the the camera can't see through the wavy

00:48:20 ◼   ► plastic, right?

00:48:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Or it would be all distorted.

00:48:23 ◼   ► So like in any lighting condition, in any situation, it's like you can tell

00:48:27 ◼   ► matte versus shiny and the camera hole is shiny and the rest of the

00:48:30 ◼   ► screen is matte and there's not you can do about that.

00:48:33 ◼   ► Yeah, and I mean I I'm sure over time I would get used to

00:48:36 ◼   ► it.

00:48:36 ◼   ► I if you were to go back to when we first got the notched

00:48:40 ◼   ► phones, I bet you I was whining and moaning about how noticeable the m

00:48:43 ◼   ► the notch was and now well now they're they're holes rather than notches.

00:48:46 ◼   ► But you you you get what I'm driving at.

00:48:48 ◼   ► Well now they're trying to put content like there was never any content behind

00:48:50 ◼   ► the notch because it's not screen, but now they're putting content there.

00:48:53 ◼   ► But like yeah, that I I do wonder if they'll revisit that, but it

00:48:56 ◼   ► seems like it's an intractable problem because you can't distort the light that goes

00:49:01 ◼   ► to the uh the camera.

00:49:03 ◼   ► Sure.

00:49:03 ◼   ► But what I'm wondering is over time will I just stop seeing it?

00:49:07 ◼   ► Oh yeah, probably.

00:49:08 ◼   ► I mean I like you can get the same experience just by looking at

00:49:11 ◼   ► all the reviews.

00:49:11 ◼   ► Like when you first see it, you'll see it in the reviews too, but

00:49:14 ◼   ► then eventually you'll stop paying attention to it.

00:49:15 ◼   ► Like it yeah.

00:49:16 ◼   ► I am I mean, maybe it'll be like you'll you'll constantly think something is

00:49:19 ◼   ► on that part of the screen and try to wipe it off, but eventually

00:49:21 ◼   ► you get used to it.

00:49:21 ◼   ► And speaking of that and speaking of the nanotexture.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Um, that's one of the things a lot of reviews talk about is like

00:49:26 ◼   ► all nanotextures, um, how much does it hold on to finger grease essentially?

00:49:31 ◼   ► And how hard is it to get off?

00:49:33 ◼   ► And yeah, it's just easier to get grease off a glossy surface.

00:49:36 ◼   ► It's impossible, it's just just like any other nanotexture on any other Apple device,

00:49:40 ◼   ► especially the nanotexture touch devices like the iPads, and maybe the upcoming uh MacBook

00:49:44 ◼   ► Pros would touch it in in a week or so.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Um, it's gonna take a little bit more effort.

00:49:49 ◼   ► Uh the fingerprints may show up more and it takes a little bit more

00:49:51 ◼   ► effort to dig that finger grease out of the grooves.

00:49:54 ◼   ► Uh with regard to software, uh again, I barely played with any of this

00:50:00 ◼   ► stuff.

00:50:01 ◼   ► I had like a couple of minutes with each of these different stations.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Um without question, there were pieces of software that Marco and I tried that

00:50:10 ◼   ► were better than others.

00:50:11 ◼   ► Um, a couple of examples of ones that I thought were really, really great.

00:50:14 ◼   ► Um, the Netflix app is extraordinary.

00:50:18 ◼   ► It's extremely well done.

00:50:20 ◼   ► All of the press that it's getting, all the hype that it's getting, to

00:50:23 ◼   ► my eyes, 100% earned.

00:50:25 ◼   ► Now, to be fair, the one of the develop really the developer of all

00:50:29 ◼   ► these updates is a is a friend of mine.

00:50:31 ◼   ► So I am biased but I genuinely believe that it is just incredible the

00:50:35 ◼   ► work that he and they have done.

00:50:37 ◼   ► Um I also thought Fantastical, while more subtle, was really well handled and it

00:50:42 ◼   ► was great to meet.

00:50:43 ◼   ► Is it Michael?

00:50:43 ◼   ► Is that right yeah Michael Simmons.

00:50:45 ◼   ► Yeah it was great to meet him.

00:50:46 ◼   ► I'd never met him before.

00:50:47 ◼   ► Um and so it was good to see that.

00:50:49 ◼   ► Those were my personal favorites.

00:50:51 ◼   ► Um with regard to using the phone um again I only had a couple

00:50:55 ◼   ► minutes with it and I wasn't doing too much with iOS proper and was

00:50:58 ◼   ► mostly just you know working or messing with these apps.

00:51:01 ◼   ► But having messed with it a bunch in the simulator made it feel reasonably

00:51:07 ◼   ► natural.

00:51:08 ◼   ► But I didn't

00:51:10 ◼   ► really pass any strong judgment as to whether or not I would get used

00:51:14 ◼   ► to it.

00:51:15 ◼   ► And I did not not once lock or unlock a phone.

00:51:19 ◼   ► And I suspect that all the whining and moaning that all these reviewers are

00:51:24 ◼   ► doing about no not not having face ID, I bet you I will be

00:51:28 ◼   ► leading that charge next week after having spent a little bit of time with

00:51:32 ◼   ► my phone.

00:51:32 ◼   ► Um so I all in all, my impression I think I could summarize is

00:51:39 ◼   ► this.

00:51:39 ◼   ► And I and I'm really excited to hear what Marco has to say.

00:51:42 ◼   ► Cause honestly, we actually didn't talk too much about this when we were together.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Um my impression, especially having digested it a little bit as I was digesting

00:51:50 ◼   ► my half a pizza is that digesting on your sleep.

00:51:55 ◼   ► If you think about the Vision Pro, right?

00:51:57 ◼   ► And just hear me out here.

00:51:58 ◼   ► If you think about the Vision Pro, it's extraordinary hardware and honestly, it's extraordinary

00:52:03 ◼   ► software.

00:52:04 ◼   ► But even though we thought it would be super useful and and in and

00:52:10 ◼   ► you know you could you could do good things with it.

00:52:13 ◼   ► Did we I feel like this Well, I I feel like there was a

00:52:16 ◼   ► window of time where at least I thought it.

00:52:18 ◼   ► Um and and and despite all that, I don't think the Vision Pro ended

00:52:24 ◼   ► up being that way, right?

00:52:25 ◼   ► Like the Vision Pro was compromised, and that was okay because you saw what

00:52:30 ◼   ► they were going for, but it wasn't particularly useful.

00:52:33 ◼   ► And I say that as someone who still enjoys Vision Pro the every couple

00:52:38 ◼   ► of times I put it on in a year.

00:52:39 ◼   ► But anyway, um, so the Vision Pro compromised, not that useful.

00:52:44 ◼   ► The iPhone Duo by contrast, is compromised, for sure.

00:52:51 ◼   ► But

00:52:52 ◼   ► not only is it useful, and I think having the inner display is useful.

00:52:59 ◼   ► And I think being able to go two up on the inner display, it's

00:53:03 ◼   ► very intuitive and useful.

00:53:06 ◼   ► So yes, it's compromised, but unlike the Vision Pro, it's useful, like potentially really

00:53:12 ◼   ► freaking useful.

00:53:14 ◼   ► And so the thought of having something that useful and just different,

00:53:21 ◼   ► maybe for the sake of being different, which I would normally poop all over.

00:53:24 ◼   ► But in this case, I think.

00:53:25 ◼   ► I we are all so thirsty, and I feel like all three of us,

00:53:28 ◼   ► maybe Marco more than anyone, have been banging this drum for a while.

00:53:31 ◼   ► But it's so fun to have something different and fun again.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And actually, um, there's something that we're gonna talk about in the post show

00:53:41 ◼   ► tonight that I think really really relates to this because I saw something yesterday,

00:53:45 ◼   ► something unrelated yesterday, that is really, really fun.

00:53:49 ◼   ► And it's cool to have fun back.

00:53:53 ◼   ► We are not the only ones saying this.

00:53:54 ◼   ► I know Jason Snell has been saying this a lot, for example, but having

00:53:58 ◼   ► this thing that is not only fun but useful.

00:54:01 ◼   ► Compromised, perhaps, but nevertheless is interesting and fun and different and exciting.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Now, I'm conveniently slipping is slipping under the rug that it's two thousand effing

00:54:16 ◼   ► dollars.

00:54:16 ◼   ► I'm slipping under the rug that you can't

00:54:18 ◼   ► Half the price of the Vision Pro with any accessories.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Uh you know, I I'm sleeping under the rug that nobody can get their

00:54:24 ◼   ► hands on these, which we'll talk about later.

00:54:26 ◼   ► But it's so Vision Pro didn't have that problem.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Uh but it's it's so great to have Apple kind of maybe moonshot is

00:54:37 ◼   ► a bit dramatic, but doing a moonshot or taking a moonshot.

00:54:40 ◼   ► And I'm so here for it.

00:54:42 ◼   ► And would I recommend the phone to an average consumer?

00:54:46 ◼   ► I don't at two thousand dollars, probably not.

00:54:49 ◼   ► But the good and bad news is I feel like I need it for

00:54:52 ◼   ► both of my jobs.

00:54:53 ◼   ► And so I'm going to be getting one.

00:54:55 ◼   ► And will I keep it?

00:54:57 ◼   ► Probably.

00:54:58 ◼   ► Will I keep it as my carry phone?

00:55:00 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:55:01 ◼   ► Tomorrow we're going to a football game and I hope to bring this with

00:55:04 ◼   ► me as my phone.

00:55:05 ◼   ► And let me tell you, I don't

00:55:08 ◼   ► But it ain't gonna be fun at 2X.

00:55:10 ◼   ► So you're gonna set it up on the car ride over?

00:55:12 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I wanna that's I preference acknowledged.

00:55:15 ◼   ► Uh no, I'm actually as we speak, I'm using an Apple Thunderbolt cable directly

00:55:19 ◼   ► plugged into my Mac, doing a backup of my iPhone 17 Pro to my

00:55:24 ◼   ► Mac, so hopefully I can do that, a restore from that tomorrow.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Hope you aren't on the 27.2 beta on that phone.

00:55:30 ◼   ► No, I am not.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Good.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Because I don't think you'd be able to install it onto the 27.1 uh

00:55:35 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:55:35 ◼   ► Uh, no, I'm not, but yeah, because that's a good point.

00:55:38 ◼   ► Um but yeah, so I am super excited for this.

00:55:41 ◼   ► I'm not convinced I'm gonna like it or love it.

00:55:43 ◼   ► There's which maybe one day Marco and I'll stop talking, we can get to

00:55:47 ◼   ► the reviews, but um there's a lot in the reviews that scares well scares

00:55:51 ◼   ► us dramatic, but scares me.

00:55:52 ◼   ► Um and I'm worried about touch ID or excuse me, I'm worried well, I'm

00:55:56 ◼   ► worried about touch ID slash lack of face ID.

00:55:57 ◼   ► I'm worried about the lack of the Forex camera.

00:56:00 ◼   ► Um, but man, it is so cool and fun to see Apple shooting their

00:56:06 ◼   ► shot again.

00:56:07 ◼   ► I think I'm done now.

00:56:08 ◼   ► I will come sure I'm come up, I'll come up with something more to

00:56:10 ◼   ► say in a second.

00:56:11 ◼   ► But Marco, take it away.

00:56:12 ◼   ► What are your impressions?

00:56:14 ◼   ► I liked the comparison to the Vision Pro, and I'll tell you what.

00:56:17 ◼   ► Where I think it's different.

00:56:19 ◼   ► Using the word compromised was a very good word for the Vision Pro.

00:56:24 ◼   ► The iPhone Duo, from what I can tell so far, I wouldn't say it's

00:56:30 ◼   ► a compromise.

00:56:31 ◼   ► I would say it's a trade-off.

00:56:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:36 ◼   ► Okay.

00:56:36 ◼   ► A compromise kind of suggests like there was no good version of this possible.

00:56:41 ◼   ► So here's like here's something we had to we there's like you know the

00:56:44 ◼   ► the the less good version that we had to ship because we couldn't ship

00:56:48 ◼   ► a better one.

00:56:49 ◼   ► The iPhone Duo, from what I can tell so far, is not a compromised

00:56:55 ◼   ► product.

00:56:55 ◼   ► It's a product that m that takes some much more opinionated trade-offs to get

00:57:02 ◼   ► some extremes than the other phones do.

00:57:05 ◼   ► You know, with the iPhone Duo, if that product is right for you,

00:57:10 ◼   ► what you want is the absolute biggest screen that you can fit in your

00:57:15 ◼   ► pocket somehow.

00:57:17 ◼   ► And literally everything else about it has had to be adjusted to achieve that

00:57:24 ◼   ► trade-off.

00:57:24 ◼   ► It's not necessarily a compromise.

00:57:26 ◼   ► It's like this is the trade off.

00:57:27 ◼   ► It's like well if you want the biggest screen in your pocket possible, it's

00:57:31 ◼   ► probably gonna be a little bit heavy or it has to be thick 'cause

00:57:35 ◼   ► you have to fold it in half or whatever.

00:57:36 ◼   ► And then it's okay, well if you have a folding and a half screen,

00:57:38 ◼   ► you need a screen on the outside also so you can use it while

00:57:40 ◼   ► it's so that you then you need another screen.

00:57:42 ◼   ► Now you need more battery, you need more costs, you need more components, you

00:57:45 ◼   ► need more complexity.

00:57:46 ◼   ► Okay.

00:57:46 ◼   ► Like that all follows from that.

00:57:48 ◼   ► But if what you want fundamentally is I want to carry in a pocketable

00:57:53 ◼   ► size the largest screen I possibly can, then this is a product for you.

00:57:58 ◼   ► The Vision Pro, I never thought like this is a product with an audience

00:58:04 ◼   ► that absolutely must buy it.

00:58:05 ◼   ► The duo the audience that must buy it is is is obvious.

00:58:09 ◼   ► It it definitely exists.

00:58:11 ◼   ► It is not even that small.

00:58:13 ◼   ► It's not.

00:58:14 ◼   ► But it's not it's not no one.

00:58:16 ◼   ► It's not like, oh well, somebody in some enterprise might use this.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Like, no, I know a lot of people, regular people, who will want this

00:58:23 ◼   ► and who would, you know, if they can if the if the price if

00:58:25 ◼   ► they can swing the price, like who would absolutely love this.

00:58:29 ◼   ► So what they've made in the in the duo, as far as I can

00:58:32 ◼   ► tell so far, anyway, I haven't lived with this phone.

00:58:34 ◼   ► I've played with this phone.

00:58:36 ◼   ► So I have not used it as my own.

00:58:39 ◼   ► I have not set up touch ID.

00:58:41 ◼   ► I have not set up my you know, my my apps, my Apple ID,

00:58:45 ◼   ► my iCloud, like none of those.

00:58:47 ◼   ► So it's hard to really say, you know more than what the reviewers are

00:58:50 ◼   ► saying, or even the same, because we the reviewers have all been able to

00:58:53 ◼   ► live with it for like, you know, well, five or seven days or whatever.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Um, we have not.

00:58:57 ◼   ► I did put one in my pocket.

00:58:59 ◼   ► I kind of looked around, like looked around whistling, but I did put one

00:59:02 ◼   ► in my pocket to see like how does this feel in the pocket?

00:59:05 ◼   ► It's frickin' heavy.

00:59:07 ◼   ► That's how it feels.

00:59:08 ◼   ► Um it did not feel as clunky as I expected it to feel in

00:59:13 ◼   ► a pocket in terms of size, uh, but boy is it heavy.

00:59:17 ◼   ► Um but again, the trade-offs you're making here are you want the absolute biggest

00:59:24 ◼   ► screen possible.

00:59:26 ◼   ► And when you see that big screen,

00:59:31 ◼   ► it's fantastic.

00:59:33 ◼   ► Now, the trade-offs to get there, these are some really weird new things to

00:59:38 ◼   ► get used to.

00:59:38 ◼   ► Um, one thing I noticed, the the very first thing I noticed when I

00:59:41 ◼   ► when I first picked one up, besides the fact that it's heavy, is that

00:59:45 ◼   ► the outside screen and the inside screen look totally different from each other.

00:59:52 ◼   ► And not just because of the size and you know, obviously one's you know

00:59:55 ◼   ► half of the other.

00:59:56 ◼   ► The because they have such radically different surface treatments and you know trims around

01:00:03 ◼   ► them, the outer it's this is uh this will kind of sound like a

01:00:05 ◼   ► mullet joke.

01:00:06 ◼   ► The outer screen is all Phil Schiller and the inner screen is all John

01:00:11 ◼   ► Turnus.

01:00:12 ◼   ► The outer screen, it's the the Schiller era aesthetic.

01:00:16 ◼   ► Everything is like shiny and like so you have the the very, you know,

01:00:20 ◼   ► the glass screen, the the the glossy glass finish on the screen.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Around it you see the high polished titanium edge.

01:00:27 ◼   ► You know, very very it's very similar to the iPhone Air.

01:00:31 ◼   ► Uh if you've seen an iPhone Air outside of a case, um, or you

01:00:34 ◼   ► know, the older Prophones where they had the polished stainless steel band like the

01:00:38 ◼   ► in the in the teen in the early teens in the profone era.

01:00:40 ◼   ► Um it's that look.

01:00:42 ◼   ► It looks high polish, high fingerprint, but high, high polish, glossy, shiny

01:00:50 ◼   ► fancy.

01:00:52 ◼   ► And then you open it up and the inside is this beautiful matte screen

01:00:59 ◼   ► surrounded by a very thin, unnoticeable you know, matte black bezel.

01:01:05 ◼   ► It's a completely different look.

01:01:07 ◼   ► And whenever I was switching between those two screens, I would notice, like literally

01:01:12 ◼   ► every time I'd close it, I'd like, oh, the outside screen is so shiny.

01:01:16 ◼   ► And then you open it up, it's like this screen is so nice and

01:01:18 ◼   ► usable.

01:01:19 ◼   ► Like in it it was just these these two contrasts in one product.

01:01:24 ◼   ► And that's kind of a microcosm of the whole product.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Like the experience of using the outer screen is is pretty weird.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Uh and i I found it pretty unpleasant.

01:01:35 ◼   ► Um like I if you read John Grewer's review, he he really hated the

01:01:39 ◼   ► experience using the outer screen, and I think I agree with most of that.

01:01:43 ◼   ► Um I really did not like using the outer screen much at all, but

01:01:48 ◼   ► again, it's a trade-off.

01:01:50 ◼   ► To get the inner screen to be as amazing as it is requires the

01:01:55 ◼   ► outer screen to be kind of crappy uh in terms of usability.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And they have achieved that.

01:02:03 ◼   ► The thing is, the way I use a phone, I don't think this is

01:02:07 ◼   ► gonna be the right phone for me.

01:02:08 ◼   ► The way I use a phone is first of all, a lot of one-handed

01:02:11 ◼   ► on the go walking around kind of use.

01:02:14 ◼   ► And it's just not gonna be good for that.

01:02:16 ◼   ► Um I think it's gonna be hard for a lot of uh I'll look

01:02:21 ◼   ► I'll just say, you know, men, um a lot of people who don't carry

01:02:23 ◼   ► their phone in bags who are used to carrying their phone just in a

01:02:26 ◼   ► pants pocket,

01:02:28 ◼   ► I think I think they're not going to necessarily understand the appeal of this

01:02:32 ◼   ► phone to people who do carry bags.

01:02:35 ◼   ► People who carry bags and who carry their phone in bags usually, The in

01:02:40 ◼   ► pocket size matters a lot less.

01:02:43 ◼   ► The weight has a little more tolerance 'cause, you know, it's in a bag.

01:02:47 ◼   ► It's it th twenty thirty grams in a bag don't really matter that much

01:02:51 ◼   ► um compared to how you know, in a pocket.

01:02:53 ◼   ► Um and a lot of times it's a two handed operation to get the

01:02:58 ◼   ► phone out anyway, and so to have a second step where you're like unfolding

01:03:02 ◼   ► it to get this amazing interior screen, no big deal.

01:03:05 ◼   ► It's not adding that much to the to the total uh action being taken

01:03:10 ◼   ► there.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Whereas if you're having your phone just in your pants pocket all all day

01:03:13 ◼   ► long, that it's it's the the outside screen is gonna be more important and

01:03:17 ◼   ► the clunkiness of the unfolding is going to be m sni you know relatively

01:03:21 ◼   ► more of a burden to you.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Uh Um, so

01:03:25 ◼   ► I can see this having very different opinions based on who's talking about it,

01:03:30 ◼   ► who's using it.

01:03:31 ◼   ► It's not for me, I don't think, but it is really, really cool.

01:03:35 ◼   ► And every time I looked at that screen The inside screen.

01:03:40 ◼   ► For even honestly, no, even the outside screen.

01:03:42 ◼   ► As I said, like the outside screen is beautiful.

01:03:45 ◼   ► I just don't like using apps on it.

01:03:47 ◼   ► Especially when you bring the keyboard up, it really takes up a lot of

01:03:50 ◼   ► the screen.

01:03:51 ◼   ► However, I did notice that typing on that keyboard was very pleasant because it's

01:03:59 ◼   ► wide.

01:04:00 ◼   ► So you do get a lot more like key size.

01:04:04 ◼   ► In the same way, like if you if you're like a usually like a

01:04:06 ◼   ► regular-sized phone person and you try out a max for a little while, one

01:04:09 ◼   ► of the things you notice when going to a bigger screen iPhone is, oh,

01:04:12 ◼   ► the typing is nicer once you get used to it because you have more

01:04:15 ◼   ► space.

01:04:16 ◼   ► Maybe it's less error-prone.

01:04:18 ◼   ► You have that with this going going to the duo from a pro phone,

01:04:22 ◼   ► the keyboard feels very spacious on the outside screen.

01:04:26 ◼   ► One challenge is kind of as I expected, I think, during the duo announcement,

01:04:31 ◼   ► the problem is you can have the keyboard on on three different sized screens,

01:04:36 ◼   ► basically, you know, outside screen, inside portrait, and inside landscape.

01:04:40 ◼   ► Tech technically four if you add also the like half split view, but no

01:04:42 ◼   ► one's And.

01:04:44 ◼   ► And don't forget tent.

01:04:45 ◼   ► Oh God.

01:04:45 ◼   ► But like you okay let me just get out of get out of the

01:04:47 ◼   ► way first.

01:04:48 ◼   ► I don't see any reason why anybody would ever hold the phone in like

01:04:51 ◼   ► book view where it's slightly bent, but you're landscape.

01:04:55 ◼   ► Like that's not gonna be a thing anybody does so don't worry about that.

01:04:58 ◼   ► Just the way you use this phone is either closed, open portrait, or open

01:05:01 ◼   ► landscape.

01:05:02 ◼   ► All the other things are gonna be like a fun gimmick here and there

01:05:05 ◼   ► occasionally, but no one's gonna do it for that much time on a regular

01:05:08 ◼   ► basis.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Um but

01:05:10 ◼   ► portrait, landscape, and front are all three very different keyboard sizes.

01:05:16 ◼   ► So for me, I was like, I got used to typing on the front

01:05:19 ◼   ► one just enough.

01:05:20 ◼   ► And then when I open it up to either of the inside ones, they're

01:05:23 ◼   ► totally different sizes.

01:05:25 ◼   ► And don't forget there's split variants of the inside ones too.

01:05:27 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:28 ◼   ► That's only if you if you bend it.

01:05:29 ◼   ► But like I think yeah, you can toggle split and non-split with a key

01:05:32 ◼   ► on the keyboard.

01:05:33 ◼   ► Of course you can.

01:05:35 ◼   ► So yeah.

01:05:37 ◼   ► Everything about it is weird, but the whole time I was using like I'll

01:05:41 ◼   ► be honest, when I was using the Vision Pro, the very first few times

01:05:44 ◼   ► I was using the Vision Pro, it all just felt like friction to me.

01:05:47 ◼   ► Everything about the Vision Pro was like, oh God, this is this is a

01:05:51 ◼   ► compromise or this is not this is not good.

01:05:54 ◼   ► This is like Division Pro.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Everything was like, maybe someday this might be good for someone, but not me

01:05:59 ◼   ► and not today.

01:06:00 ◼   ► The duo is like, oh no, I don't think it's right for me, but

01:06:04 ◼   ► it's really cool.

01:06:05 ◼   ► I really like it.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:06 ◼   ► And it's already right for a lot of people today, exactly as it is,

01:06:10 ◼   ► with all of its shortcomings and trade offs.

01:06:12 ◼   ► So I was I really enjoyed using the duo.

01:06:16 ◼   ► I am I I am getting one.

01:06:18 ◼   ► Uh we'll get to that in a minute, but I I don't think I'm

01:06:22 ◼   ► gonna live with it as my daily carrier phone for the whole year and

01:06:25 ◼   ► beyond.

01:06:26 ◼   ► Um I don't think so.

01:06:28 ◼   ► But I could look, because I haven't used it myself as my phone yet.

01:06:32 ◼   ► I can't really know that.

01:06:34 ◼   ► Um, but it is really, really nice at what it tries to do.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Is it perfect?

01:06:41 ◼   ► No, of course not.

01:06:43 ◼   ► But it's really nice today for what it is today.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Not some promise of the future, not a bunch of content snacks saying this

01:06:51 ◼   ► is what someday this might become.

01:06:53 ◼   ► No, it's really great today.

01:06:56 ◼   ► You can't get one, of course but it's that's that's a problem, but it's

01:07:02 ◼   ► very cool.

01:07:03 ◼   ► Uh and that inside screen is so gorgeous

01:07:08 ◼   ► and so nice to use and so honestly, the inside is also so nice

01:07:13 ◼   ► to hold.

01:07:14 ◼   ► Cause again, like what John said earlier about the weight discussion, the phone feels

01:07:18 ◼   ► like a brick in your pocket, but when you open it up and you're

01:07:21 ◼   ► handling it like a little iPad, it feels weightless.

01:07:24 ◼   ► Yeah it gets lighter when you open it.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Yeah, the that is honestly the perception because you're holding a much thinner thing.

01:07:31 ◼   ► And so you're like oh well, yeah, like per square foot here, you're like

01:07:34 ◼   ► per per visible square foot of this thing, this weighs very little.

01:07:38 ◼   ► Um, it is a remarkable feeling to to you know to hold it and

01:07:43 ◼   ► to use it in uh in the open state.

01:07:46 ◼   ► And even though there's all these different trade-offs and shortcomings and the apps are

01:07:50 ◼   ► still, you know, gonna be spotty for a while, and there's gonna be lots

01:07:52 ◼   ► of bugs.

01:07:53 ◼   ► I found bugs already, even in the demo phones.

01:07:55 ◼   ► There you know, there were bugs in certain apps, a lot of animation bugs,

01:07:58 ◼   ► rotation bugs, like all sorts of weird stuff.

01:08:01 ◼   ► But again, this is all like really th there's a lot going on in

01:08:04 ◼   ► this software.

01:08:04 ◼   ► There's a lot a lot of things have changed, a lot of new stuff,

01:08:07 ◼   ► a lot of unfinished stuff.

01:08:09 ◼   ► But it is it is something great today.

01:08:13 ◼   ► Uh I think they I think it is going to be a hit.

01:08:16 ◼   ► And And I think it's gonna be a very polarizing reaction from people in

01:08:21 ◼   ► the same way that like when we went from the regular sized, you know,

01:08:25 ◼   ► like like the mid sized iPhone when they added the the plus and the

01:08:29 ◼   ► max phones, the Those were polar those were polarizing too.

01:08:33 ◼   ► Because a lot of people were like, oh my God, I want the biggest

01:08:36 ◼   ► string I can possibly get.

01:08:37 ◼   ► This is amazing.

01:08:38 ◼   ► A lot of other people were like, why would anybody want their phone to

01:08:41 ◼   ► be that giant?

01:08:42 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

01:08:43 ◼   ► Well the the iPhone Duo takes takes that a huge leap in that same

01:08:49 ◼   ► direction of like, okay, well now we're gonna add way more screen space with

01:08:54 ◼   ► way more trade offs and a lot of people are gonna be like, that's

01:08:58 ◼   ► stupidest thing ever or how could they flub you know, detail X that I

01:09:02 ◼   ► care about or whatever?

01:09:03 ◼   ► But then a lot of other people are gonna be like, Yes, I need

01:09:06 ◼   ► that.

01:09:07 ◼   ► I want that.

01:09:07 ◼   ► I want the biggest screen I can get.

01:09:10 ◼   ► And it's gonna depend a lot on how you use your phone, how you

01:09:14 ◼   ► carry your phone, what's important to you.

01:09:17 ◼   ► You know, some of the most impressive I I think maybe the most impressive

01:09:20 ◼   ► demo that we saw was there was a team there from the Instagram Edits

01:09:25 ◼   ► app.

01:09:26 ◼   ► What was really nice about edits was like they, you know, they kind of

01:09:29 ◼   ► they were describing how like when you're editing a video, you know, you have

01:09:33 ◼   ► like the you know, the the preview on one half and like you know,

01:09:35 ◼   ► the timeline stuff and the controls and, you know, different parts of it.

01:09:38 ◼   ► And that's kind of thing like you you can see like if that's something

01:09:41 ◼   ► that you do if you edit video with with one of these tools, this

01:09:44 ◼   ► is a game changer.

01:09:45 ◼   ► Like if you're if you're like a a video person, a content creator, you're

01:09:48 ◼   ► doing this kind of stuff on your iPhone, you're gonna want this for all

01:09:51 ◼   ► of that because it's like i i it it it makes your your main

01:09:55 ◼   ► like iPhone thing that you do all the time a lot better.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Um or, you know, if you if you try if you fly a lot

01:10:03 ◼   ► and you wanna just like have this thing up on a trade table and

01:10:06 ◼   ► like helping to, you know, amuse you on the on the plane or show

01:10:08 ◼   ► some video or something, I can see that being amazing too.

01:10:11 ◼   ► Um there's so many use cases.

01:10:13 ◼   ► I I mean just e even if you just like edit spreadsheets or documents

01:10:18 ◼   ► on your phone, a lot if if you use your phone as your main

01:10:21 ◼   ► computer or as your most commonly used computer, which most of us honestly do,

01:10:26 ◼   ► uh, I can see this being amazing.

01:10:28 ◼   ► Because what it what is better than having a ton of screen space for

01:10:32 ◼   ► that kind of use for almost any kind of document based workflow, almost any

01:10:36 ◼   ► kind of productivity work, a big screen is is always better for that.

01:10:40 ◼   ► So I think it's again, it's gonna be a hit.

01:10:44 ◼   ► It's not gonna be the most popular iPhone by a mile.

01:10:48 ◼   ► Um for lots of reasons.

01:10:50 ◼   ► Even if they could make enough of them, it wouldn't be the most popular

01:10:52 ◼   ► iPhone.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Um, but I think it's gonna be a hit, and I think they have

01:10:56 ◼   ► done something really great here.

01:10:58 ◼   ► It's not perfect.

01:10:59 ◼   ► Version two will be a lot better, probably.

01:11:02 ◼   ► Like whether that's you know whether it's like next year or that's more of

01:11:05 ◼   ► like an S thing and then maybe it may be two years from now.

01:11:07 ◼   ► Yeah, it probably really needs face ID.

01:11:09 ◼   ► And it probably needs better cooling and boy could really use better cameras.

01:11:14 ◼   ► Um and maybe they can do some of those things, maybe they can't but

01:11:17 ◼   ► it's right now, the version for sale right now, while not perfect, is great.

01:11:24 ◼   ► John, any questions?

01:11:26 ◼   ► Uh no, I'm probably gonna go check it out when it arrives in stores

01:11:29 ◼   ► tomorrow.

01:11:30 ◼   ► But uh before then all I did was watch reviews.

01:11:32 ◼   ► But before we get to that, we should talk about uh your pre-orders.

01:11:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:36 ◼   ► So um w the pre-orders were for us at eight AM uh last Friday

01:11:42 ◼   ► and uh day or two before then I got a text from our friend

01:11:47 ◼   ► Jelly who said, Hey, you know our uh monthly FaceTime.

01:11:52 ◼   ► You see what's going on then?

01:11:54 ◼   ► I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

01:11:55 ◼   ► And then I looked at my calendar.

01:11:57 ◼   ► Oh oh we were supposed to get on the call at eight AM and

01:12:01 ◼   ► so Jelly was like What do you want to do, bud?

01:12:05 ◼   ► So I said, How about uh we get on the phone a little bit

01:12:08 ◼   ► early and uh when when the time comes, you know, we'll pause for a

01:12:11 ◼   ► second and uh take care of it.

01:12:12 ◼   ► So uh as Jelly was talking, I was listening, but I was doing the

01:12:17 ◼   ► force refresh dance on the app store.

01:12:19 ◼   ► Uh I've heard people tell me that's actually not helpful.

01:12:22 ◼   ► I don't know or not.

01:12:23 ◼   ► I never like force quit apps apps other than this.

01:12:27 ◼   ► Um but that's what I did.

01:12:29 ◼   ► Um my pro tip, which I shouldn't share because I should keep it for

01:12:33 ◼   ► myself, but my pro tip is I have always, always had a better experience

01:12:39 ◼   ► using my iPhone on cellular.

01:12:41 ◼   ► I don't know if that's a Richmond, Virginia thing.

01:12:43 ◼   ► I don't know Fios thing.

01:12:45 ◼   ► I don't know what it is.

01:12:47 ◼   ► But um I can tell you that for me, being on cellular on my

01:12:52 ◼   ► phone for like dub dub tickets way back when for phones.

01:12:56 ◼   ► It's all that's always the best I've ever done.

01:12:58 ◼   ► And so I was doing the force refresh dance or and or force force

01:13:01 ◼   ► quit dance and I had done the pre-pre-order, you know, the night before or

01:13:06 ◼   ► what have you.

01:13:06 ◼   ► And And um and I was able to, I think it was eight oh

01:13:10 ◼   ► one.

01:13:10 ◼   ► I got in, I said, Yes, I'll take it.

01:13:13 ◼   ► Uh do you want to do pickup?

01:13:14 ◼   ► Uh uh sure.

01:13:15 ◼   ► Yes, uh when?

01:13:17 ◼   ► Immediately, you know, like eight AM on Friday.

01:13:19 ◼   ► And by some miracle I was able to lock it in and get it

01:13:22 ◼   ► through.

01:13:23 ◼   ► I was once I saw that it let me in, it was 30 seconds

01:13:28 ◼   ► maybe before I was done.

01:13:30 ◼   ► Um and so I have 8 a.m.

01:13:32 ◼   ► pickup uh tomorrow as I as I record this.

01:13:36 ◼   ► White, which I don't think I've ever done a white phone before, but I

01:13:39 ◼   ► don't know maybe having uh Marco's stupid 3D print has like incepted me into

01:13:43 ◼   ► wanting white.

01:13:44 ◼   ► Well, you saw both of them in you know yesterday.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I didn't take that close of a look at it to be honest.

01:13:49 ◼   ► And I honestly I think I would have been happy with either.

01:13:51 ◼   ► But I don't know.

01:13:51 ◼   ► Something about this I was thinking about this actually because I knew one of

01:13:54 ◼   ► you would ask me.

01:13:55 ◼   ► Um I think because it's so different than anything else I've had, I kind

01:13:58 ◼   ► of wanted it to be a different color too, which maybe that's silly, but

01:14:01 ◼   ► that's Honestly, I think the white is obviously the better looking version.

01:14:07 ◼   ► Like it is I think it's way better looking than than the the the

01:14:10 ◼   ► navy.

01:14:11 ◼   ► And that like the navy is not bad looking, but the white's great looking.

01:14:14 ◼   ► And I think and I would agree with that.

01:14:15 ◼   ► Like the contrast it this is a phone that looks really good with contrast

01:14:19 ◼   ► and the white really accentuates what it is, the contrast between it, like it's

01:14:25 ◼   ► just it th you know, you see it when you see like the two

01:14:27 ◼   ► halves, you see like the white half against it, like it just yeah, the

01:14:30 ◼   ► white looks fantastic.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Yeah, uh, so that's what I did.

01:14:34 ◼   ► Uh 512, uh 512 gigabytes and again, day one delivery.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Um our friend Tyler, or at least Marco and my friend Tyler, um, who

01:14:44 ◼   ► is our occasional concert companion, amongst other things.

01:14:47 ◼   ► Uh he also did the same thing and he had as he was checking

01:14:50 ◼   ► out, he was telling me uh as he was checking out, it kept saying,

01:14:53 ◼   ► No, you actually you can't do a pickup because that slot is filled.

01:14:56 ◼   ► And so um he he told me that basically what he did was he

01:15:00 ◼   ► tried like eight, eight fifteen, eight thirty or whatever I forget the delineations, but

01:15:03 ◼   ► you know what I'm saying.

01:15:04 ◼   ► And then he failed a couple of times so it's like, ah, screw it,

01:15:07 ◼   ► noon or something like that, you know, in order to like give himself a

01:15:10 ◼   ► little more buffer and so he's gonna be there a a couple hours after

01:15:13 ◼   ► a few hours after me.

01:15:15 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, I was able to luck out.

01:15:17 ◼   ► Um so then I finished my FaceTime call with Jelly and this was right

01:15:20 ◼   ► at the beginning of the call so I wasn't off the call for another

01:15:22 ◼   ► like hour, hour and a half.

01:15:23 ◼   ► And then I, you know, came up for air, if you will, and um

01:15:27 ◼   ► started looking at the internet and oh people were not happy.

01:15:32 ◼   ► People were not happy.

01:15:33 ◼   ► And I was blissfully ignorant about it for like sixty to ninety minutes.

01:15:37 ◼   ► Um I I I would love to hear uh John's story and then Marco's,

01:15:42 ◼   ► please.

01:15:42 ◼   ► My story?

01:15:43 ◼   ► What is my story?

01:15:43 ◼   ► I'm not bothering one of these phones.

01:15:45 ◼   ► I know I'm just I'm just messing with you.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Marco had a Although I did see I did see people complaining about it

01:15:48 ◼   ► and I you know, it's happened to me.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Like it's just I don't know what it is, the CDN luck of the

01:15:52 ◼   ► draw like when do you get let into the Apple store?

01:15:54 ◼   ► And for an in-demand product, being let in sixty seconds later can mean a

01:15:59 ◼   ► lot.

01:16:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it really can.

01:16:01 ◼   ► And that's the other thing actually that reminds me that some people were saying,

01:16:04 ◼   ► oh it was 805, it was 807 or something like that for me and

01:16:07 ◼   ► or you know for these other people and for me I'm almost sure it

01:16:10 ◼   ► was eight oh one and I don't know I guess got lucky with the

01:16:12 ◼   ► caches I guess.

01:16:13 ◼   ► But anyway, Marco how'd it turned out?

01:16:15 ◼   ► Less well.

01:16:17 ◼   ► Yeah I'm sorry.

01:16:18 ◼   ► Um so there is an there's a new program that we heard about um

01:16:22 ◼   ► from the Apple store business reps.

01:16:24 ◼   ► Don't even get me started.

01:16:26 ◼   ► It's I believe it's called Get Ready, the same thing that like you can

01:16:28 ◼   ► do in advance on your phone, but like the it's like the business rep

01:16:32 ◼   ► version of this.

01:16:33 ◼   ► Now

01:16:34 ◼   ► The Apple store business reps are the nicest people.

01:16:39 ◼   ► Like I've dealt with them over the years through, you know, through various stores

01:16:43 ◼   ► around New York.

01:16:44 ◼   ► Like I've dealt with them for a long time.

01:16:46 ◼   ► They are the nicest people.

01:16:48 ◼   ► They do whatever they can for you.

01:16:50 ◼   ► The thing is they can't do that much for you sometimes.

01:16:53 ◼   ► And i in the same way that like, you know, when we're when I

01:16:56 ◼   ► was talking about how when I was doing the MDM stuff and you know

01:16:59 ◼   ► for all my my server setups, you could tell like the the MDM and

01:17:02 ◼   ► and like business admin side, like the IT side of of Apple, you can

01:17:07 ◼   ► tell they don't really get the resources they need from like the other departments.

01:17:11 ◼   ► And that's kind of why a lot of the Apple business stuff is is

01:17:14 ◼   ► difficult and more difficult than it needs to be, or more limited than it

01:17:17 ◼   ► needs to be, because it seems like the rest of the company just doesn't

01:17:20 ◼   ► what they need.

01:17:21 ◼   ► That's how the business reps are too.

01:17:23 ◼   ► It's very clear to me that over the years, the business reps have

01:17:30 ◼   ► lost their abilities to do things uh very well for people in in a

01:17:33 ◼   ► lot of cases.

01:17:34 ◼   ► They don't have a lot of tools at their disposal and they don't have

01:17:38 ◼   ► a lot of resources at their disposal.

01:17:40 ◼   ► Um so I submitted the order through the business rep.

01:17:43 ◼   ► 'cause 'cause what we were told at first was if you submit it through

01:17:47 ◼   ► the business rep, the it will automatically be submitted right when the store opens

01:17:51 ◼   ► at minute zero and your order will be, you know, right there right right

01:17:56 ◼   ► up front.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Now, I got a phone call from my business rep a few days beforehand

01:18:01 ◼   ► saying, Hey, I'm I've heard some rumblings.

01:18:04 ◼   ► I don't think you should count on this because it's cause supply's gonna be

01:18:07 ◼   ► so constrained just in case, you should probably try to place an order yourself

01:18:12 ◼   ► at opening time also.

01:18:14 ◼   ► And we'll submit both and you know, if if we gotta cancel one, we'll

01:18:17 ◼   ► cancel one, no problem.

01:18:19 ◼   ► Okay, great.

01:18:19 ◼   ► So that's what I did.

01:18:21 ◼   ► Because I had the business one, I was like, well, let me and my

01:18:26 ◼   ► you know, Tiff has decided she wants one too.

01:18:28 ◼   ► And so I'm like and she has she hasn't had an upgrade in a

01:18:30 ◼   ► couple of years.

01:18:31 ◼   ► Like, all right, it's that's that's perfectly reasonable.

01:18:33 ◼   ► So I I set up Tiff's order first in my phone like as my

01:18:37 ◼   ► like you know my get ready one on my app store version on my

01:18:40 ◼   ► phone.

01:18:40 ◼   ► Um and then I I you know configured mine to be like a short

01:18:43 ◼   ► time after that that I could just go in and like fill out a

01:18:45 ◼   ► couple more things, do it again and go.

01:18:47 ◼   ► So I was there right at minute zero with TIFT order ready to go.

01:18:52 ◼   ► The App Store app did not open on time.

01:18:54 ◼   ► Of course.

01:18:55 ◼   ► It didn't open until five minutes later.

01:18:58 ◼   ► Um and I c and I was I had Safari open on my desktop,

01:19:01 ◼   ► I had Chrome open on my desktop and I had the Apple Store app

01:19:04 ◼   ► on my phone, refreshing all of them.

01:19:05 ◼   ► The pages on on Safari and Chrome on the desktop eventually switched to a

01:19:10 ◼   ► kind of concert like, you know, stay on this page and we'll let you

01:19:12 ◼   ► in in a you know when your slot in the queue opens up.

01:19:16 ◼   ► Uh guess what?

01:19:17 ◼   ► Those never let me in.

01:19:19 ◼   ► Uh that that literally never occurred.

01:19:22 ◼   ► If I would have trusted that page and just stayed there until it let

01:19:25 ◼   ► me in, I would not have gotten an iPhone duo ever.

01:19:28 ◼   ► Um Fortunately, I didn't trust those pages because you're n never trust those pages.

01:19:32 ◼   ► They they work on Ticketmaster, maybe.

01:19:34 ◼   ► They do not work on Apple.

01:19:36 ◼   ► So So I got in, uh, you know, kept refreshing the app about five

01:19:40 ◼   ► minutes later, I got in uh through the app on my phone.

01:19:42 ◼   ► So this is roughly what time?

01:19:44 ◼   ► Eight oh five.

01:19:45 ◼   ► Oh, okay, okay, okay.

01:19:46 ◼   ► Um got in, submitted TIF order real fast, and even then, five minutes in,

01:19:51 ◼   ► which was as soon that it was within seconds of the store being available

01:19:56 ◼   ► and actually opened to me.

01:19:58 ◼   ► It was already delayed to um the second week of November, I believe.

01:20:02 ◼   ► First or second week of November.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Okay.

01:20:04 ◼   ► So that's already like a two week delay.

01:20:06 ◼   ► I quickly go back and I submit mine.

01:20:09 ◼   ► Mine's a month late.

01:20:10 ◼   ► Then eventually about uh 92 minutes after the store opens, I get the confirmation

01:20:17 ◼   ► from the business rep channel, and that one has a date of January twenty-sixth

01:20:22 ◼   ► from other people who I've asked in different reports online, as far as I

01:20:25 ◼   ► can tell, that might be true of every business order for the iPhone Duo

01:20:30 ◼   ► that they all might have gone in.

01:20:31 ◼   ► I don't the business reps for this.

01:20:33 ◼   ► It's w you know, whatever system they were submitting through, it just didn't put

01:20:37 ◼   ► in the orders and it seems like all of them are like I d

01:20:41 ◼   ► I don't I I haven't heard of anybody getting a duo through a business

01:20:45 ◼   ► rep earlier than January.

01:20:47 ◼   ► Like, so the way this order went

01:20:52 ◼   ► I I have to say, I was mad.

01:20:54 ◼   ► At least the business rep had the you know the foresight to call me

01:20:57 ◼   ► and warn me, like, hey, don't this order.

01:21:00 ◼   ► But okay, so Apple has this business system that just didn't work.

01:21:04 ◼   ► Like flat out didn't work too bad.

01:21:06 ◼   ► Literally the thing it promised, you'll be there right at the beginning, was just

01:21:10 ◼   ► false.

01:21:11 ◼   ► Like it just failed completely to do the like it's like you had one

01:21:15 ◼   ► job, you didn't.

01:21:16 ◼   ► Okay.

01:21:17 ◼   ► Secondly, the app never opens on time for for my area, whatever that means.

01:21:24 ◼   ► And and I've and I've been in different areas and it it seems like

01:21:27 ◼   ► it's always kind of random.

01:21:28 ◼   ► I'm sure it's you know various CDN propagations and things like that, but the

01:21:32 ◼   ► internet has solved this problem.

01:21:33 ◼   ► Ticketmaster doesn't have this problem.

01:21:35 ◼   ► Only Apple has this problem.

01:21:37 ◼   ► This is a solvable and solved problem.

01:21:40 ◼   ► I did everything right, in two different ways, and still got screwed by their

01:21:46 ◼   ► system because it didn't behave the way it advertises that it will behave.

01:21:52 ◼   ► I know this is a very privileged position that I'm trying to order multiple

01:21:57 ◼   ► foldable phones, trying to get any of them here so I can do my

01:22:00 ◼   ► job.

01:22:01 ◼   ► But every part of this rollout has been in a way that makes it

01:22:07 ◼   ► more difficult for developers to do our jobs.

01:22:09 ◼   ► We literally did everything right.

01:22:11 ◼   ► We were there And the system wasn't ready.

01:22:14 ◼   ► It didn't let us in, but it let some people in.

01:22:17 ◼   ► Because literally as soon as the system opened, dates had slipped two weeks.

01:22:21 ◼   ► And a bunch of people did get first day orders.

01:22:24 ◼   ► So it wasn't that the store didn't for anybody until eight oh five.

01:22:27 ◼   ► The store didn't for me till eight oh five.

01:22:29 ◼   ► And that kind of thing, like again, I know this sounds whiny and um

01:22:33 ◼   ► but it's just that kind of thing, random failures to random people who are

01:22:39 ◼   ► doing the right thing and doing exactly what you ask them to do is

01:22:43 ◼   ► incredibly frustrating because the system ultimately, from from our point of view, is unfair.

01:22:50 ◼   ► I am perfectly fine to wait in a line.

01:22:52 ◼   ► I'm an American and I'm a New Yorker.

01:22:55 ◼   ► And we are good at those things.

01:22:56 ◼   ► We are good at waiting in lines.

01:22:58 ◼   ► We're not we're not British.

01:22:59 ◼   ► They they really mastered it, but we're close.

01:23:02 ◼   ► But here, it's like the Apple store, there is no line.

01:23:06 ◼   ► It's just chaos and it's random.

01:23:08 ◼   ► And that's just really frustrating because we do everything right and we still just

01:23:13 ◼   ► randomly lose.

01:23:15 ◼   ► Not because we were behind in line, but because the line just broke for

01:23:20 ◼   ► us and the solution was too bad.

01:23:23 ◼   ► I I know, I recognize it's a tough situation, but there are so many

01:23:27 ◼   ► ways that they could handle it better.

01:23:29 ◼   ► Like and number one would just be make their system actually fair.

01:23:32 ◼   ► Like make it actually open the same time for everyone and make the make

01:23:37 ◼   ► those cues work.

01:23:39 ◼   ► That would make it feel even though it would still be difficult and you

01:23:42 ◼   ► know, sometimes you'd still have bad luck, at least it would feel fair.

01:23:46 ◼   ► Whereas this system just feels unfair.

01:23:50 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Quince.

01:23:53 ◼   ► So it's definitely getting chilly here in Richmond, and that means it's a great

01:23:57 ◼   ► time to figure out, hmm, maybe I should refresh my wardrobe a little bit

01:24:01 ◼   ► and add something new, change things out, or whatever the case may be.

01:24:04 ◼   ► And let me tell you, if you are in that mood, if it is

01:24:07 ◼   ► the time of year where you should think about these sorts of things, and

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01:24:38 ◼   ► So you're paying for high quality, not brand markup.

01:24:41 ◼   ► Now Quince uh just recently was kind enough to send us a little bit

01:24:45 ◼   ► of money to spend and another great thing about Quince is that it's not

01:24:48 ◼   ► just for dudes.

01:24:49 ◼   ► Uh they have men's and women's stuff, they have baby and kid stuff.

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01:24:56 ◼   ► stuff to travel with, and so on.

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01:24:58 ◼   ► But regardless, uh, we ordered a few things for Michaela, including an organic cotton

01:25:03 ◼   ► long-sleeve fit-and-flare pocket dress.

01:25:05 ◼   ► Actually, we did basically the same dress in two styles.

01:25:07 ◼   ► One of them has these adorable little kitty cat heads on it.

01:25:10 ◼   ► The other one is like nothing but uh like a fall-colored flowers and stuff.

01:25:15 ◼   ► And again, they have pockets.

01:25:17 ◼   ► They are really adorable, and Michaela is super duper excited.

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01:25:45 ◼   ► Thank you to Quince for supporting the show.

01:25:51 ◼   ► Let's talk about duo reviews.

01:25:53 ◼   ► Uh I've watched the ones that John has linked uh and we and I've

01:25:57 ◼   ► put all these links in the show notes.

01:25:58 ◼   ► Uh John, do you want to give us a nickel tour about what you

01:26:00 ◼   ► found interesting about each of these?

01:26:02 ◼   ► Yeah I have a meta topic after watching all these reviews.

01:26:04 ◼   ► I picked out some of the uh the better reviews that I saw.

01:26:07 ◼   ► This is not all the ones that I read or watched, but this is

01:26:09 ◼   ► some interesting ones.

01:26:10 ◼   ► And I came o I came away with an interesting notion that I was

01:26:15 ◼   ► talking about a little bit on past episodes and that is that like this

01:26:19 ◼   ► is this is the season where I discover Chinese YouTube.

01:26:24 ◼   ► Apparently um we talked about HTX Studio last time and a couple episodes ago.

01:26:30 ◼   ► Uh big YouTube channel that is now doing English language stuff.

01:26:33 ◼   ► And in this one I found another one that uh the the channel name

01:26:37 ◼   ► is like Tim Pan, but I think it might also be from a company

01:26:40 ◼   ► call Media Storm, another um YouTube channel and I looked at their channel and

01:26:45 ◼   ► they like had 72,000 subscribers, but then I went to their Chinese channel and

01:26:48 ◼   ► they have a million.

01:26:49 ◼   ► So again, it seems like uh, you know, Chinese YouTube channels or Chinese video

01:26:53 ◼   ► content creators coming over and doing English language versions for English speaking audience when

01:26:59 ◼   ► they're already just massive in China.

01:27:01 ◼   ► And I bring this up because MKBHD, which uh I think uh I also

01:27:06 ◼   ► had the season where I discovered MKBHD many years ago of like who is

01:27:09 ◼   ► this person?

01:27:11 ◼   ► Anyway, we've heard from now.

01:27:12 ◼   ► Um, he has been uh, you know, I think he's like one of the

01:27:16 ◼   ► biggest, if not the biggest, English language, you know, just American YouTuber who talks

01:27:21 ◼   ► about tech stuff and reviews, phones and things like that.

01:27:23 ◼   ► And you know, even coming in as late as we did to his fame,

01:27:27 ◼   ► we all got to see him kind of travel a little bit of the

01:27:29 ◼   ► journey from like independent content creator to someone who's got a media empire and

01:27:33 ◼   ► is running a company and gets invited to all the Apple events and interviews

01:27:36 ◼   ► Tim Cook and has fancy cameras and stuff like that.

01:27:39 ◼   ► And part of the journey has been like um

01:27:43 ◼   ► watching the things that Marquez gets excited about, like getting the fancy red digital

01:27:47 ◼   ► cameras and a robot arm so you can swoop the camera down and around

01:27:51 ◼   ► the new iPhone or Samsung phone or whatever and make these cool intros with

01:27:56 ◼   ► motion graphics.

01:27:56 ◼   ► And I just remember how excited he was like every time they'd come up

01:28:00 ◼   ► with a new video of just like the intro, sort of like, you know,

01:28:03 ◼   ► intro uh graphic animation and cool camera shots and everything that would lead into

01:28:09 ◼   ► his video about whatever product he's talking about.

01:28:11 ◼   ► Uh and so that's the context I'm as someone who watches, you know, the

01:28:15 ◼   ► biggest uh, you know, America, US based tech YouTube video content channels, which is

01:28:21 ◼   ► for me is a very straight line continuation of me watching computer chronicles on

01:28:25 ◼   ► uh PBS after school and everything.

01:28:27 ◼   ► Like I've always just been craved video content for tech and now there's tons

01:28:30 ◼   ► more of it, so it's great.

01:28:32 ◼   ► Then enter these Chinese YouTube things.

01:28:34 ◼   ► We already talked about HTTP Studio and like to the thing about HBM uh

01:28:37 ◼   ► memory um and I forget what their other video oh the the weird table

01:28:42 ◼   ► thing and everything that we didn't know if it was real or if it

01:28:44 ◼   ► was AI.

01:28:44 ◼   ► And I was saying the production value on the on their uh HBM video

01:28:47 ◼   ► was amazing.

01:28:48 ◼   ► The Tim Pan Media Storm video, same deal.

01:28:51 ◼   ► And I'm watching these videos and I'm like, my jaw is like on the

01:28:55 ◼   ► floor.

01:28:55 ◼   ► I'm like They have what look like extremely expensive, fancy, well done motion graphics

01:29:04 ◼   ► everywhere.

01:29:05 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:29:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:06 ◼   ► Like top notch production.

01:29:08 ◼   ► Like like Marquez is like, I'm excited about this new intro I made with

01:29:11 ◼   ► my ho Jillion Dollar robot arm and camera and it's like how about you

01:29:14 ◼   ► do that for every shot?

01:29:15 ◼   ► At first I was watching and I'm like, are they AI generating these?

01:29:19 ◼   ► Cause this looks like it's so expensive.

01:29:21 ◼   ► Like I could not believe how well done it was.

01:29:23 ◼   ► It was it like it was clever.

01:29:26 ◼   ► It was like it wasn't just like flash for the sake of flash.

01:29:29 ◼   ► Like the gr on screen graphics would help explain and emphasize the point.

01:29:33 ◼   ► And there was just so much of it.

01:29:35 ◼   ► And I'm just seeing dollars raining from the sky.

01:29:37 ◼   ► And there was this point this point in the Tim Pan uh iPhone duo

01:29:41 ◼   ► review where he was talking about like, uh, you know, when I forget what

01:29:45 ◼   ► it was, like some some other new phone came out, and um and the

01:29:48 ◼   ► people at his company, here's what the breakdown was of like, did they want

01:29:52 ◼   ► the new phone or whatever?

01:29:53 ◼   ► Maybe it was the air, like not a lot of people wanted the air.

01:29:55 ◼   ► And then he compared with like this year when we had like the getting

01:29:58 ◼   ► company phones for everybody, how many people wanted the the duo?

01:30:02 ◼   ► And it was a huge percentage uh like that wanted the duo.

01:30:05 ◼   ► But they didn't just give percentages in the little, of course, motion graphic, you

01:30:09 ◼   ► know, 3D rendered chart they have.

01:30:11 ◼   ► They gave hard numbers.

01:30:12 ◼   ► And the hard numbers were 140 people wanted the duo, 18 wanted the 17

01:30:16 ◼   ► wanted the 18 Pro, and 41 wanted the Pro Max.

01:30:18 ◼   ► That's 198 people.

01:30:22 ◼   ► And so I was like, okay, wait a second.

01:30:25 ◼   ► Is the company that makes this YouTube video made up of 200 people?

01:30:30 ◼   ► Is that why it looks like this?

01:30:33 ◼   ► Like I don't quite understand the economics or whatever, but here I'm here I'm

01:30:37 ◼   ► here to say that Maybe that's not all they do?

01:30:39 ◼   ► Like maybe maybe it's a company it's like yeah, maybe it's like a a

01:30:42 ◼   ► production company.

01:30:43 ◼   ► Yeah, like maybe it's just a totally different company and they do this on

01:30:45 ◼   ► the side.

01:30:45 ◼   ► Maybe he's doing this independent and he has a day job, but all I'm

01:30:49 ◼   ► saying is these

01:30:51 ◼   ► Chinese YouTube channels that are making English language versions for our English speaking audiences

01:30:58 ◼   ► are amazing.

01:31:00 ◼   ► Like just phenomenally like so much money is on the screen.

01:31:04 ◼   ► I think the videos are well done.

01:31:06 ◼   ► I think they cover lots of points that other people don't.

01:31:10 ◼   ► They do extensive testing of everything.

01:31:13 ◼   ► Every test something, it's like, but of course we know somebody who has a

01:31:15 ◼   ► an x-ray machine, and we know somebody who has this device, and we know

01:31:18 ◼   ► somebody who has that or whatever.

01:31:19 ◼   ► That just so much good information, so much motion graphics, well executed, it is

01:31:25 ◼   ► is blowing my mind how good the Chinese YouTubers are.

01:31:29 ◼   ► I don't understand the economics.

01:31:30 ◼   ► I don't understand if every are each of these people also the MKBHD equivalent