Upgrade

00:00:09 ◼   ► From relay this is Upgrade Episode 600 and 39.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Fitbud, Keeper and Sentry.

00:00:16 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley.

00:00:18 ◼   ► I'm Jason Snell.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hi, Mike Hurley.

00:00:21 ◼   ► I'm my garage right now.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Where are you?

00:00:23 ◼   ► I'm in a hotel room in Memphis, Tennessee.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Um when I got off the plane yesterday, um the the person who was

00:00:31 ◼   ► like on the other side of the door, you know, when they opened the

00:00:33 ◼   ► door.

00:00:34 ◼   ► There's like I guess they're like an attendant or something.

00:00:36 ◼   ► They started singing walking in Memphis.

00:00:38 ◼   ► And it's like, is this your first day?

00:00:40 ◼   ► Is this your is this your first day on the job?

00:00:43 ◼   ► Like I feel like You're not doing this constantly, but yes, I am in

00:00:47 ◼   ► Memphis.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Um I'm in a wonderful hotel that we're in, uh that you'll be in

00:00:51 ◼   ► in a couple of days.

00:00:52 ◼   ► I'll be in tomorrow night.

00:00:55 ◼   ► And we'll talk about why in a moment, but right now we have to

00:00:58 ◼   ► do a snow talk question and it comes from Patrick and Patrick wants to

00:01:02 ◼   ► know, Jason, do you have any go to airplane or airport snacks that you

00:01:08 ◼   ► like to get while traveling?

00:01:10 ◼   ► Oh, this is really interesting.

00:01:11 ◼   ► I'm curious what you have to say

00:01:15 ◼   ► about this.

00:01:16 ◼   ► But I'll also and I'll also say one of my favorite most one of

00:01:19 ◼   ► the most endearing things of the many things that are endearing about our friend

00:01:22 ◼   ► James Thompson is that I discovered when I f I've flown with him a

00:01:25 ◼   ► few times, um, that uh he always gets they're called, I believe, mini cheddars.

00:01:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:33 ◼   ► In the UK.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:34 ◼   ► And he'll get little mini cheddars and then he got extra and we shared

00:01:37 ◼   ► mini cheddars flying to Ireland from Scotland.

00:01:39 ◼   ► That was very very sweet of him.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Um I

00:01:44 ◼   ► uh go to airport snacks.

00:01:46 ◼   ► You know, um I like to travel with some chocolate.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Mm.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Uh dark chocolate is my preference.

00:01:54 ◼   ► I like to have some chocolate with me.

00:01:56 ◼   ► This led to that situation where I kept my bag in Steven's trunk when

00:01:59 ◼   ► we were in Houston and my entire bag filled with molten chocolate.

00:02:03 ◼   ► Yeah, that'll happen.

00:02:04 ◼   ► That'll happen.

00:02:06 ◼   ► We mostly scraped it out.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Oh, and I didn't discover until I was at the airport.

00:02:12 ◼   ► And it was like, oh no.

00:02:14 ◼   ► It was amazing.

00:02:15 ◼   ► Amazing.

00:02:15 ◼   ► Uh I'll never make that mistake again though.

00:02:17 ◼   ► But that's a very California thing.

00:02:19 ◼   ► If like who would even leave chocolate in a car?

00:02:21 ◼   ► It's like somebody from California would leave chocolate in a car in Houston, Texas

00:02:25 ◼   ► in the summer.

00:02:26 ◼   ► Um anyway, so uh chocolate, uh if I don't sometimes I'll just bring it

00:02:31 ◼   ► from home sometimes I will get it there.

00:02:33 ◼   ► I you know, maybe maybe like honey roasted nuts, like a sweeter kind of

00:02:38 ◼   ► nut.

00:02:38 ◼   ► But mostly I think my comfort to have well I have the nuts on

00:02:42 ◼   ► the plane in case I desperately need something and the food on the plane

00:02:47 ◼   ► is no good, right?

00:02:47 ◼   ► Like that that is like I'll I'll have some almonds or cashews or something

00:02:51 ◼   ► just as emergency.

00:02:52 ◼   ► Protein.

00:02:53 ◼   ► Uh also my stomach sometimes if like they serve tea and I've had too

00:02:56 ◼   ► much tea that morning, which sometimes happens on morning flights, stomach gets a little

00:03:00 ◼   ► rumbly and the the the the nuts will happen w help with that.

00:03:03 ◼   ► But but the treat is the is the chocolate generally.

00:03:07 ◼   ► Um that's yeah, I would say that that's my go to.

00:03:09 ◼   ► And then um beyond that,

00:03:12 ◼   ► uh, you know, it's just game planning, what you w are you gonna eat

00:03:15 ◼   ► at the airport or you're gonna eat um on the plane or you know,

00:03:19 ◼   ► how how you the yeah I know I've got places that I know to

00:03:22 ◼   ► go at the San Francisco airport for various things and the Oakland airport.

00:03:26 ◼   ► I've got my my places.

00:03:28 ◼   ► And in fact, coming back from Memphis, I'm going to be sad because I'm

00:03:31 ◼   ► coming back in the morning um after we we do the thing we're going

00:03:34 ◼   ► to talk about.

00:03:35 ◼   ► And uh that's too bad because one of my favorite things about the Memphis

00:03:38 ◼   ► airport is that there is a um there's a like a brew pub right

00:03:41 ◼   ► there where you get a beer and sitting in it in a sit yeah,

00:03:44 ◼   ► you sit in an Adirondack chair looking out at the planes and stuff and

00:03:47 ◼   ► just drink your beer and then go to the gate.

00:03:49 ◼   ► And uh it's not gonna be beer o'clock when I get to the airport.

00:03:53 ◼   ► It's gonna be that place does a really good barbecue sandwich too.

00:03:56 ◼   ► So

00:03:57 ◼   ► there's your top tip for the Memphis.

00:04:02 ◼   ► Yeah, we're we're serving for all your Memphis airport needs.

00:04:05 ◼   ► Like the listen to these guys.

00:04:06 ◼   ► These guys have spent a lot of time in the Memphis Airport, let me

00:04:08 ◼   ► tell ya.

00:04:09 ◼   ► I know the airport.

00:04:10 ◼   ► Uh so what about you?

00:04:10 ◼   ► Do you have a it's not gonna be nuts?

00:04:13 ◼   ► I know that.

00:04:13 ◼   ► Definitely not.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Definitely not gonna be that.

00:04:15 ◼   ► I mean that's the end of the land flight emergent emergency diversion, they have

00:04:19 ◼   ► to take you to Iceland because I'm gonna go to the body.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Yeah, land in Iceland.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Uh reference acknowledged.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Uh I

00:04:24 ◼   ► I will always when I'm at any airport, I will buy a bag of

00:04:29 ◼   ► crisps, chips as you would say, and a chocolate bar.

00:04:32 ◼   ► It doesn't really matter what, it's more about what am I feeling on that

00:04:35 ◼   ► day.

00:04:36 ◼   ► And for when I'm chocolate Traveling, it's rare I eat it on the plane.

00:04:41 ◼   ► I actually just had that bag of chips before we recorded today, because I

00:04:44 ◼   ► had breakfast at seven o'clock this morning and it's now eleven.

00:04:48 ◼   ► So I was like, I wanted to have something small.

00:04:50 ◼   ► So I had them now.

00:04:51 ◼   ► So we usually have them at some point on the trip.

00:04:53 ◼   ► So Yeah, I will say so I I don't other than you know for

00:04:57 ◼   ► Halloween, I don't I don't buy candy, I don't eat candy, but that happens

00:05:02 ◼   ► sometimes, right?

00:05:02 ◼   ► Like sometimes instead of the chocolate bar, a dark chocolate bar, it'll be a

00:05:06 ◼   ► different kind of chocolate bar or one of the like garbage candy bars that

00:05:11 ◼   ► I like, I will occasionally do that.

00:05:12 ◼   ► If I'm ever gonna eat a butterfinger on a day that is not Halloween,

00:05:15 ◼   ► it will be on on an airplane or at the airport.

00:05:18 ◼   ► If I ever buy a package of Skittles, it will be at an airport

00:05:21 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:05:21 ◼   ► I guarantee you.

00:05:22 ◼   ► But that does happen from time to time.

00:05:24 ◼   ► It has been known to happen.

00:05:25 ◼   ► It really is a mood.

00:05:26 ◼   ► I'm like, Am I so sad and bereft of human feelings that I need

00:05:30 ◼   ► to buy Skittles?

00:05:31 ◼   ► And sometimes the answer is yes.

00:05:33 ◼   ► Sometimes.

00:05:34 ◼   ► I am also a ginger ale drinker on planes and I have heard that

00:05:39 ◼   ► this is a thing that people do and I don't know why.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Um, but I am one of those people.

00:05:44 ◼   ► I d I do know why.

00:05:45 ◼   ► Okay.

00:05:46 ◼   ► During the day I will just get a Coke Zero if they've got it

00:05:48 ◼   ► uh or tea.

00:05:50 ◼   ► But in the evening when I don't want caffeine, I always will get a

00:05:53 ◼   ► ginger ale.

00:05:54 ◼   ► The reason is sometimes people's tummies are upset on airplanes 'cause they they they

00:05:59 ◼   ► get that bad tummy on an airplane and ginger is good.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Always feel terrible in the airplane.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Ginger is good for your stomach.

00:06:07 ◼   ► Ginger eases stomach pains.

00:06:09 ◼   ► That's uh it's a uh it's true.

00:06:11 ◼   ► I actually was feeling kinda sick the other day and I just ate some

00:06:14 ◼   ► ginger because I that is a thing I sometimes keep in the house is

00:06:16 ◼   ► candy ginger.

00:06:18 ◼   ► And uh which is not a candy, it is ginger.

00:06:20 ◼   ► That's a good time though, candy ginger.

00:06:22 ◼   ► It is a good time.

00:06:24 ◼   ► I love it.

00:06:24 ◼   ► So anyway, that's that's the you know I should probably bring candy ginger on

00:06:28 ◼   ► an airplane, come to think of it.

00:06:30 ◼   ► If we're ever on an airplane together, please bring some.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I will.

00:06:33 ◼   ► And one of my favorite dark chocolates actually that I can get sometimes at

00:06:36 ◼   ► Whole Foods, it has uh has ginger pieces in it, which is also super

00:06:40 ◼   ► So that's fascinating 'cause this is just one of those things that my body

00:06:43 ◼   ► is asking for more than it is my decision.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Like it it's just a thing that I naturally gravitate towards, but don't really

00:06:50 ◼   ► have ginger ale.

00:06:51 ◼   ► They do always have ginger ale on planes because it's a thing that people

00:06:54 ◼   ► like on planes.

00:06:55 ◼   ► And I've always since I was a kid, I've always uh thought of ginger

00:06:59 ◼   ► ale as a thing you drink on planes.

00:07:01 ◼   ► And sometimes elsewhere, but uh especially on planes.

00:07:03 ◼   ► You know what's a good good a an alcoholic ginger beer?

00:07:06 ◼   ► That is a good drink.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Oh man.

00:07:08 ◼   ► That's a good time.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Anyway, that's enough about I feel like I have to do the Snell Talk

00:07:13 ◼   ► break for Snelltalk.

00:07:14 ◼   ► You know, it's like we haven't got no time for this.

00:07:16 ◼   ► I feel like I have to do it now.

00:07:17 ◼   ► Working as intended.

00:07:18 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question for us to open a

00:07:21 ◼   ► future episode of the show, just go to upgradefeedback.com and send in your Snelltalk

00:07:26 ◼   ► question.

00:07:27 ◼   ► Uh I am in Memphis right now, and you are coming to Memphis because

00:07:30 ◼   ► it is September.

00:07:32 ◼   ► September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Throughout the month of September, we raise money for the kids of St.

00:07:37 ◼   ► Jude and this.

00:07:38 ◼   ► Friday, October second, from twelve PM to twelve A.M.

00:07:42 ◼   ► US Eastern Time on the Relay YouTube channel, we will be live streaming the

00:07:46 ◼   ► podcast a thon for Saint Jude.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Jason will be in.

00:07:49 ◼   ► September thirty second.

00:07:50 ◼   ► September thirty second, aka October the second.

00:07:53 ◼   ► Jason's gonna be here, obviously Steven's gonna be here, Kathy Campbell, Brad Dowdy, Casey

00:07:57 ◼   ► Liss, we're gonna have a great time.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Western themed.

00:07:59 ◼   ► I am currently wearing a piece of my costume, but you can't see it.

00:08:05 ◼   ► Oh Oh no.

00:08:06 ◼   ► So we got that going.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Well I I I have I have taken possession of a a a vintage

00:08:13 ◼   ► shirt thrifted to me by video producer Jamie Snell, who is an inveterate thrifter.

00:08:19 ◼   ► I don't know if that hi Jamie.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Uh I don't know if I've mentioned that, but she is that is her

00:08:23 ◼   ► hobby is thrifting.

00:08:24 ◼   ► And she has she has found a uh a podcast that on appropriate shirt

00:08:27 ◼   ► for me.

00:08:28 ◼   ► I I had to bring her in.

00:08:28 ◼   ► I I said help me here.

00:08:30 ◼   ► I don't even know what I'm doing.

00:08:31 ◼   ► And she came through.

00:08:32 ◼   ► There may be another one coming, and then I bought something dumb that.

00:08:35 ◼   ► I will also bring.

00:08:35 ◼   ► So I've got some some things ready.

00:08:37 ◼   ► And I just want it to be known again, just to make clear, I

00:08:40 ◼   ► do this entire Western themed thing under protest.

00:08:43 ◼   ► But you know, I'll I'll I'll I'm game.

00:08:45 ◼   ► I'll do it.

00:08:45 ◼   ► Sounds like it sounds like for somebody under protest you are protesting very well.

00:08:49 ◼   ► You know, in in that like you are involved.

00:08:51 ◼   ► I'm gonna I'm a team player.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Yeah you are I'm a team.

00:08:54 ◼   ► I grew up in a I grew up in a cow town.

00:08:55 ◼   ► I grew up in a cowboy town.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Yeah and um I look forward to cowboys.

00:08:59 ◼   ► So it's isn't novel to me and in fact kind of not my favorite,

00:09:02 ◼   ► but I am gonna I'm a team player.

00:09:04 ◼   ► I'm gonna I'm gonna do my best.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Let me talk a little bit about why we do this.

00:09:09 ◼   ► So St.

00:09:10 ◼   ► Jude has produced 18 of the world's most highly cited scientists.

00:09:15 ◼   ► So the people that work at Saint Jude, they are cited so often.

00:09:19 ◼   ► In november twenty twenty five, the list of highly cited researchers recognized eighteen Saint

00:09:24 ◼   ► Jude scientists as among the world's most impactful, which is the most in St.

00:09:28 ◼   ► Jude history.

00:09:29 ◼   ► These researchers authored multiple scientific papers, ranking in the top one percent by citations

00:09:35 ◼   ► for their field for roughly ten years.

00:09:38 ◼   ► Citations referred to how often a published research paper is included as a reference

00:09:42 ◼   ► by other investigators in their work, Which is a measure of that research's reach

00:09:47 ◼   ► and influence.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Being on that list indicates the value of research by St.

00:09:51 ◼   ► Jude for scientists worldwide seeking to raise survival rates for children.

00:09:56 ◼   ► It also shows that research from St.

00:09:58 ◼   ► Jude is used and built upon by scientists around the world.

00:10:01 ◼   ► So every dollar invested in St.

00:10:03 ◼   ► Jude multiplies impact way beyond its walls.

00:10:07 ◼   ► And this is one of the many reasons that I am so proud, we

00:10:10 ◼   ► are so proud to support this institution.

00:10:12 ◼   ► While they are a wonderful place in Memphis, their work spreads around the world

00:10:17 ◼   ► for kids to be saved globally.

00:10:20 ◼   ► It's incredible stuff.

00:10:21 ◼   ► It only takes a minute to help give a child with cancer hope for

00:10:25 ◼   ► their a better lifetime.

00:10:27 ◼   ► We're inviting the relay community to help us reach our goal of seven hundred

00:10:31 ◼   ► thousand dollars this September.

00:10:33 ◼   ► We're doing really well so far.

00:10:35 ◼   ► Five hundred and twenty-six thousand raised before the podcast is uneven.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Uh this September for Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:10:41 ◼   ► As always, there are multiple ways to support the campaign.

00:10:43 ◼   ► Go to Saint Jude.org slash relay to make a donation.

00:10:47 ◼   ► You can set up a fundraiser of your own and see the awesome incentives

00:10:50 ◼   ► available to donors this year.

00:10:51 ◼   ► And you can also check if your employer will match your donation.

00:10:54 ◼   ► And I will remind you again, the 2026 podcast of Friday, October 2nd.

00:10:59 ◼   ► It's grand finale of the campaign this year for the first time ever.

00:11:02 ◼   ► We'll be running from 12 p.m.

00:11:04 ◼   ► to twelve AM Eastern time on Relay's YouTube channel.

00:11:07 ◼   ► Please come and tune in.

00:11:08 ◼   ► There's a link in the show notes to the YouTube video.

00:11:10 ◼   ► You can click to be reminded.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Uh we'll be posting about it everywhere we can.

00:11:14 ◼   ► Come and join us.

00:11:15 ◼   ► It'll be a great time.

00:11:16 ◼   ► More cures, more hope, more tomorrow's go to saintjured.org slash relay to donate or

00:11:21 ◼   ► start a fundraiser today.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Let's do some follow up, Jason Snell.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Uh a few people wrote into this, but I'm gonna read from somebody who

00:11:30 ◼   ► labeled themselves as not Mark German.

00:11:31 ◼   ► I don't know if it is the person who has previously given us information

00:11:34 ◼   ► as not Mark German, but this isn't information, it's just help.

00:11:38 ◼   ► So this person says Mike mentioned the display on his new iPhone 18 Pro

00:11:43 ◼   ► looked cooler than his previous phone.

00:11:46 ◼   ► This is because Apple is calibrating the 18 Pro displays using Apple's CMF 2026,

00:11:52 ◼   ► a new calibration technology which they first debuted on the studio display XDR.

00:11:57 ◼   ► So it does look different.

00:11:59 ◼   ► So your your phone is cooler but more accurate.

00:12:02 ◼   ► But I don't like that.

00:12:03 ◼   ► I like I like the warmth.

00:12:04 ◼   ► Uh so you know good good for them I suppose, but I I don't

00:12:09 ◼   ► like it.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Uh but I'm at least pleased that I could see it, right?

00:12:13 ◼   ► Like I could actually see the difference.

00:12:15 ◼   ► So I'm not going mad.

00:12:17 ◼   ► Seeing colors.

00:12:18 ◼   ► And also my concern was that there was something wrong with my display, right?

00:12:22 ◼   ► But It wrong to me, but it's it's fine.

00:12:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:12:28 ◼   ► You wrote a I don't know what you would call this impressions post about

00:12:34 ◼   ► first week with the Apple Watch series twelve, not a review because what would

00:12:37 ◼   ► be the point in reviewing it when I've only had it a week?

00:12:40 ◼   ► All the reviews already came out from people who also only had it for

00:12:43 ◼   ► a week, and the two major features that everybody's talking about haven't.

00:12:47 ◼   ► So I wrote about what I've done with by wearing the series twelve since

00:12:51 ◼   ► I got it uh last Wednesday, Thursday, something like that.

00:12:56 ◼   ► And you referenced the d the about doing sleep tracking more.

00:12:59 ◼   ► Um and you were talking about some of the vital stuff.

00:13:01 ◼   ► And I just wanted to I was just following up and asking you, have

00:13:04 ◼   ► you not used the sleep tracking since the vitals stuff shipped.

00:13:09 ◼   ► So when they when they shipped it, I did sleep tracking.

00:13:12 ◼   ► Right.

00:13:13 ◼   ► And I did that for a good, you know, I don't know.

00:13:15 ◼   ► I mean long enough to l I did the sleep apnea check and all

00:13:18 ◼   ► of that, past that.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Um so more than a month.

00:13:22 ◼   ► Probably maybe two months and then I just stopped.

00:13:26 ◼   ► I I decided it was more convenient to take my watch off at the

00:13:29 ◼   ► end of the day and charge it than it was to charge my watch

00:13:32 ◼   ► opportunistically when I take a shower or maybe when I wake up in the

00:13:36 ◼   ► morning.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Um, even though I do appreciate very much the idea of the uh the

00:13:41 ◼   ► silent alarm.

00:13:42 ◼   ► I really like the silent alarm on the Apple Watch.

00:13:45 ◼   ► Um and uh anyway, so I'm back on this.

00:13:50 ◼   ► I'm back Apple, I mean, look,

00:13:53 ◼   ► I'm fine not sleeping with the Apple Watch, but Apple clearly wants me to

00:13:57 ◼   ► sleep with the Apple Watch.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:13:58 ◼   ► And if I'm valuating the Apple Watch, I need to sleep with the Apple

00:14:02 ◼   ► Watch.

00:14:02 ◼   ► So here we are.

00:14:03 ◼   ► I am back uh charging my phone before I go to bed.

00:14:06 ◼   ► I only one night did I forget to put it back or my watch.

00:14:09 ◼   ► Only one night did I forget to put it back on before I went

00:14:11 ◼   ► to sleep.

00:14:12 ◼   ► So I missed one, but the rest of them I've gotten.

00:14:14 ◼   ► I got a really great sleep score today.

00:14:17 ◼   ► Congratulations to me.

00:14:18 ◼   ► Ninety nine.

00:14:18 ◼   ► Nailed it.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Wow.

00:14:20 ◼   ► Um That's good.

00:14:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:22 ◼   ► Look at you.

00:14:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:23 ◼   ► She's so proud.

00:14:23 ◼   ► It yelled at me.

00:14:24 ◼   ► I got a I got a bad score the other like we went over

00:14:27 ◼   ► to a friend's house um and for dinner and and it yelled at me

00:14:31 ◼   ► the next morning, it's like, You went to bed too late.

00:14:34 ◼   ► It was past your bedtime and I'm Yeah, I that's a shame on me

00:14:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I I don't like sleep tracking because I don't like the emphasis that

00:14:44 ◼   ► it puts on bedtime.

00:14:47 ◼   ► Because it that doesn't me going to bed at a certain time does not

00:14:50 ◼   ► dictate as to whether I will get enough sleep or not.

00:14:53 ◼   ► And I feel like Apple's system really likes to wake.

00:14:56 ◼   ► To wait the bedtime of it.

00:14:58 ◼   ► It's Dr.

00:14:59 ◼   ► You're not listening to Dr.

00:15:00 ◼   ► Desai.

00:15:01 ◼   ► Uh there is science that suggests that your sleep is much better with a

00:15:07 ◼   ► consistent bedtime.

00:15:09 ◼   ► And that's why they do the whole thing where they tap you on your

00:15:11 ◼   ► wrist and say, It's bedtime now.

00:15:13 ◼   ► You should go to bed.

00:15:14 ◼   ► I again, does this suggest that I am skeptical of Apple intruding in the

00:15:20 ◼   ► I look, I've been alive for a long time, for more than fifty years

00:15:24 ◼   ► now, I know how to go to sleep.

00:15:27 ◼   ► So I don't need their help.

00:15:29 ◼   ► But I'm doing it.

00:15:30 ◼   ► I'm it I'm doing it.

00:15:31 ◼   ► I don't care so much for the sleep score.

00:15:35 ◼   ► I d I don't care about that.

00:15:37 ◼   ► Um but I like the vital checking and I do like the new readiness

00:15:41 ◼   ► thing.

00:15:42 ◼   ► And I obviously use Sleep Plus Plus and I've and I have for a

00:15:45 ◼   ► long time.

00:15:46 ◼   ► I I do prefer the Sleep Plus Plus style of sleep tracking and the

00:15:50 ◼   ► readiness score that it gives me over apples.

00:15:52 ◼   ► I just don't find that out of a hundred score to be that effective

00:15:56 ◼   ► for me, but I do like their readiness.

00:15:58 ◼   ► Like that is better for me because the score out of a hundred is

00:16:03 ◼   ► is kind of just marking my sleep, but I don't really feel like I

00:16:06 ◼   ► can do anything with it.

00:16:08 ◼   ► Where a readiness score is more helpful.

00:16:10 ◼   ► And I and I have done enough sleep tracking now that I'm getting the

00:16:14 ◼   ► readiness score because I'm on the point two betas.

00:16:17 ◼   ► So I'm I'm getting that.

00:16:18 ◼   ► And it's more helpful for me.

00:16:19 ◼   ► Like and so I I prefer that as a system to just the out

00:16:23 ◼   ► of a hundred sleep tracking.

00:16:24 ◼   ► But I love Apple's Vitals thing.

00:16:26 ◼   ► And the thing that I found the most interesting is my Apple Watch gives

00:16:31 ◼   ► me a sense for if I'm going to be sick.

00:16:34 ◼   ► Now, there's not really much you can do with that, right?

00:16:37 ◼   ► Like it it says to you, Hey, look, there's that are out of whack.

00:16:41 ◼   ► And I have noticed that like that tends to lead to me getting sick.

00:16:46 ◼   ► Now right now my vitals are out of whack, but they tend to be

00:16:51 ◼   ► travel when I travel.

00:16:52 ◼   ► But it will be but this is the thing that like now I know

00:16:55 ◼   ► I'm gonna keep an eye on that over the next couple of days to

00:16:57 ◼   ► see if it calms down or not.

00:17:00 ◼   ► But you know, I yeah, I don't really feel like there's much I can

00:17:02 ◼   ► do with it that but I like knowing that information.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Like I do find that information to be interesting at least.

00:17:11 ◼   ► So I sleep track of it.

00:17:12 ◼   ► I wanted to ask w w how do you charge your your Apple Watch?

00:17:15 ◼   ► Do you have like a uh because they have fast charging now, right?

00:17:18 ◼   ► Um if you have the right cables.

00:17:20 ◼   ► And that helps a lot for me because I can just give it a

00:17:23 ◼   ► little quick top up before I go to bed.

00:17:26 ◼   ► I mean, I I have a an Apple Watch charger at my bedside and

00:17:32 ◼   ► um I put it on there and read my book and then I take

00:17:36 ◼   ► it back off and go to sleep.

00:17:37 ◼   ► And it works fine.

00:17:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:38 ◼   ► Maybe in the morning I do the same thing when I shower and that's

00:17:42 ◼   ► it.

00:17:42 ◼   ► That's all I do.

00:17:43 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:17:44 ◼   ► It's coming out of a it's coming out of a device that is a

00:17:47 ◼   ► mul it's like got USB C and USB A and a couple of plugs

00:17:52 ◼   ► so that I can it's like right under my bed so that I can

00:17:56 ◼   ► um have my iPad charger there as well.

00:17:59 ◼   ► So I don't what it's putting out and I I I don't care.

00:18:02 ◼   ► It works enough.

00:18:03 ◼   ► It's weird though that the the the puck

00:18:07 ◼   ► dictates the speed.

00:18:08 ◼   ► So they have newer the newer Apple Watch puck charges allow for the higher

00:18:15 ◼   ► speed.

00:18:16 ◼   ► If you have a watch that does fast charging but don't have a more

00:18:20 ◼   ► modern charger you don't get the faster speed.

00:18:24 ◼   ► I think I have series I think that's the series ten charger that's back

00:18:27 ◼   ► there, but I'll give it a look.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Which probably means it's fast, but they actually it's got faster again and you

00:18:33 ◼   ► need the new charger, I think.

00:18:35 ◼   ► I think.

00:18:36 ◼   ► Again, I if it if I felt like this was an issue I would

00:18:39 ◼   ► probably care more.

00:18:39 ◼   ► But I are you getting the sense like that I I am I wouldn't

00:18:44 ◼   ► say I am a begrudging Apple Watch reviewer, 'cause I'm not, but I am

00:18:50 ◼   ► not as

00:18:52 ◼   ► I I'm not trying to optimize my Apple Watch usage, right?

00:18:56 ◼   ► Like I've integrated it into my life in a way that works for me.

00:18:58 ◼   ► And so, you know, fair, fair enough.

00:19:01 ◼   ► I I, you know, so I'm using the plug that I was.

00:19:03 ◼   ► I I I like, okay, I'll wear your watch overnight but I'm not changing

00:19:06 ◼   ► the plug out.

00:19:07 ◼   ► That's ridiculous.

00:19:08 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:19:09 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:19:10 ◼   ► But um I may I may do that, but it hasn't bottom line is

00:19:13 ◼   ► it hasn't been a problem.

00:19:14 ◼   ► Sure.

00:19:14 ◼   ► Right?

00:19:15 ◼   ► Like I have I have not finding a time to charge my watch has

00:19:18 ◼   ► not been a problem because charging it when I especially since I used to

00:19:21 ◼   ► take my watch off and then go to sleep, taking my watch off at

00:19:24 ◼   ► bedtime while I'm reading my book and then remembering to when I am done

00:19:30 ◼   ► put the watch back on or when I think of it while I'm reading

00:19:32 ◼   ► is enough time.

00:19:33 ◼   ► And then I'm then if I also charge it in the m in the

00:19:36 ◼   ► morning when I uh wake up or when I shower, i it's just not

00:19:39 ◼   ► a problem at any point during the day.

00:19:42 ◼   ► So I've been talking about with Siri AI and kind of having to ask

00:19:48 ◼   ► it where to remind me of things, right?

00:19:50 ◼   ► We've been talking about that over the last couple of weeks.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Um and I noticed in the messages app, you know, it sometimes pops up

00:19:59 ◼   ► and it's like add to reminders, add to notes, that thing.

00:20:03 ◼   ► My add to reminders now has a to-doist logo.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Oh, interesting.

00:20:10 ◼   ► So it has learned something about you.

00:20:13 ◼   ► It seems to have learned.

00:20:14 ◼   ► And like maybe this is one of the ways that it teaches me.

00:20:16 ◼   ► And it's like I was surprised to see it.

00:20:19 ◼   ► So it's like I don't I don't really know what again, I don't know

00:20:22 ◼   ► what to do with that, but it's like, oh, that's a change that I've

00:20:24 ◼   ► noticed now.

00:20:25 ◼   ► Right.

00:20:26 ◼   ► Um that wasn't the the that case before.

00:20:28 ◼   ► So it's interesting.

00:20:31 ◼   ► I wanted to mention um

00:20:33 ◼   ► there is one audio intelligence feature that is enabled on the Apple Watch right

00:20:37 ◼   ► now.

00:20:38 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:20:39 ◼   ► And it's music recognition.

00:20:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:42 ◼   ► Which is just Shazam, right?

00:20:43 ◼   ► Like the you can use a Shazam app on your iPhone.

00:20:46 ◼   ► There's a music recognition app called music recognition.

00:20:48 ◼   ► I always look for Shazam.

00:20:49 ◼   ► It's called music recognition.

00:20:52 ◼   ► Uh on the Apple Watch that's been there for a while, but it's using

00:20:55 ◼   ► its audio intelligence, which means I think it's that buffer of audio that it's

00:20:59 ◼   ► doing and it detects when music is playing.

00:21:02 ◼   ► And so if you if you scroll or swipe down to the widget stack

00:21:06 ◼   ► and it hears music, that widget appears.

00:21:09 ◼   ► And then if you just if you give it a moment, it identifies the

00:21:12 ◼   ► song right on your wrist without you doing anything other than checking to see

00:21:17 ◼   ► what the song is.

00:21:17 ◼   ► Do you have to enable the widget or does it do it Automatic.

00:21:22 ◼   ► It should do automatic.

00:21:24 ◼   ► Okay.

00:21:24 ◼   ► Because I was my smart stack automatically.

00:21:26 ◼   ► And and it wasn't I couldn't get it to work, but I didn't know

00:21:29 ◼   ► that it was called music recognition.

00:21:31 ◼   ► I was looking for Shazam.

00:21:32 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

00:21:32 ◼   ► And I just opened the app now and it had that like the handshaking

00:21:36 ◼   ► privacy thing.

00:21:37 ◼   ► So maybe I had to accept that.

00:21:39 ◼   ► And so now I'll I'll try that out as well.

00:21:42 ◼   ► So um that's 'cause it it is um it's very effective.

00:21:45 ◼   ► I was watching I think Ted Lasso and I yeah what's this song and

00:21:49 ◼   ► I I thought oh I could do this on the watch and I scrolled.

00:21:51 ◼   ► And it was almost instantaneous because I think here's the thing I think the

00:21:55 ◼   ► problem with Shazam is you get a moment where you hear a song.

00:21:59 ◼   ► It's probably a moment where the song is really recognizable and also maybe in

00:22:02 ◼   ► the environment you're in especially if you're in like a cafe or something, it's

00:22:05 ◼   ► a moment where it's clear enough for you to hear it.

00:22:08 ◼   ► And then you're like, oh, I should open my phone or go to the

00:22:11 ◼   ► what's the name of it?

00:22:12 ◼   ► It's music recognition or Shazam on the phone.

00:22:14 ◼   ► And now and you hold it up and like the the song's fading out,

00:22:17 ◼   ► people are talking, and maybe you miss it.

00:22:19 ◼   ► Um, and because it's using the buffer, I believe it's using the buffer, it

00:22:23 ◼   ► feels like it's using the buffer, it is listening, so it's probably caught.

00:22:29 ◼   ► What twigged you to wanting to know it?

00:22:31 ◼   ► It's probably able to, and I think that's why it's probably faster, is that

00:22:35 ◼   ► it's able to not just process from the moment you say, why don't you

00:22:38 ◼   ► process, but it can process backward a little bit.

00:22:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:40 ◼   ► And the result is it's fast and effective and it's really nice.

00:22:44 ◼   ► Um, and my big complaint is I would love on the watch to be

00:22:49 ◼   ► able to say, can you log

00:22:51 ◼   ► the music you hear here?

00:22:53 ◼   ► Give me a list until until I leave until the st a time is

00:22:58 ◼   ► over and put that in a list somewhere 'cause I've absolutely had that happen

00:23:01 ◼   ► recently where we were in a cafe in Portland and Laura and I were

00:23:06 ◼   ► really liking the playlist and Lauren's like, this is exactly the kind of music

00:23:08 ◼   ► I want w to listen to on a plane because it was like Sunday

00:23:12 ◼   ► morning early.

00:23:13 ◼   ► So it was like real vibe electronic kind of music.

00:23:16 ◼   ► Really good.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Um of for that mood.

00:23:20 ◼   ► And um

00:23:23 ◼   ► like zero seven and oh I forget what else is on there.

00:23:26 ◼   ► I I I I sort of started to build a playlist based on the

00:23:28 ◼   ► ones that I did recognize.

00:23:30 ◼   ► Apparently in the Shazam app on the iPhone, you can do that.

00:23:33 ◼   ► You can say start logging and just leave your iPhone out.

00:23:36 ◼   ► But again, my watch is out and my iPhone is in my pocket and

00:23:40 ◼   ► it wouldn't be nice on my watch to say, you know what, why don't

00:23:42 ◼   ► you log until again, until I leave here or for half an hour or

00:23:46 ◼   ► whatever it is.

00:23:47 ◼   ► I think that's a feature they should add, but it it does apparently exist

00:23:50 ◼   ► in the iPhone version.

00:23:51 ◼   ► But Um it's a it's smart.

00:23:53 ◼   ► So we can we can debate listening to people, but capturing logging songs in

00:23:58 ◼   ► a place where you want to know what the song is, I like it.

00:24:01 ◼   ► I think they I think they did a good job.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Uh and bad news follow up to last week's follow-up.

00:24:06 ◼   ► A GM spokesperson confirmed to Joanna Stern that they have not changed their car

00:24:10 ◼   ► play plans for electric vehicles.

00:24:12 ◼   ► The announcement that we spoke about last week was just for their gas pickups,

00:24:16 ◼   ► which have always supported car play.

00:24:18 ◼   ► They have no change of plan for EVs supporting carplay.

00:24:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:24:22 ◼   ► We we have to do this follow-up, but I will say there's the other

00:24:25 ◼   ► story, which was about the Cadillac EV that is apparently keeping CarPlay.

00:24:31 ◼   ► Um uh and and that was a sign that th this policy may not

00:24:38 ◼   ► be clear.

00:24:39 ◼   ► And I'm just gonna say it.

00:24:41 ◼   ► I don't believe them.

00:24:42 ◼   ► Yeah I don't think I think they are still in the process.

00:24:46 ◼   ► I I I I I agree.

00:24:47 ◼   ► I think that I think there's no policy now to give up and put

00:24:51 ◼   ► CarPlay on all their EVs going forward.

00:24:54 ◼   ► But I will make a prediction, which is that they are in the process

00:24:57 ◼   ► of giving up.

00:24:58 ◼   ► I think I think the Cadillac announcement was the one where they're like, We've

00:25:02 ◼   ► listened to customers, where it's like, Well, if you listen to customers, you're gonna

00:25:07 ◼   ► give this policy up because and and like I said last week, one of

00:25:11 ◼   ► their arguments was we don't want it to take over the interface, but they've

00:25:14 ◼   ► done this innovative thing where it doesn't take over the interface, it goes in

00:25:18 ◼   ► a window like everybody else.

00:25:20 ◼   ► So I think they are.

00:25:21 ◼   ► I think this is all part of the process where there's internal struggle and

00:25:25 ◼   ► a struggle about how to com communicate it.

00:25:27 ◼   ► And they probably have some products in the pipeline that don't have this, and

00:25:30 ◼   ► they don't want to get ahead of themselves because then they're going to have

00:25:33 ◼   ► to say, Except for these, these are bad.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Don't buy our cars.

00:25:36 ◼   ► They don't do that.

00:25:37 ◼   ► But, you know, mark my words.

00:25:39 ◼   ► The The avalanche has already begun.

00:25:42 ◼   ► It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

00:25:45 ◼   ► That's a reference.

00:25:46 ◼   ► No one will get.

00:25:47 ◼   ► Someone will get it.

00:25:48 ◼   ► They'll send me a note.

00:25:50 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Fitbud.

00:25:54 ◼   ► When you're looking to change your fitness level, it can be hard to know

00:25:57 ◼   ► how to get started.

00:25:58 ◼   ► And that is why Fitbud is such a fantastic tool for helping you really

00:26:02 ◼   ► build a fitness plan that is just for you.

00:26:04 ◼   ► It's also super affordable too, which I love.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Everyone has their own path to personal fitness, which is why Fitbod uses data

00:26:11 ◼   ► to make sure they customize things to suit you perfectly.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Fitbod is going to be adapting as you're doing your workouts.

00:26:16 ◼   ► It's going to improve alongside with you and make sure that everything remains challenging.

00:26:21 ◼   ► This will push you to make the progress that you're looking for because you

00:26:24 ◼   ► will see the best results when a workout program is tailored to your unique

00:26:28 ◼   ► body, experience, environment, and goals.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Fitbod stores this in your Fitbud Gym profile and it tracks your muscles and

00:26:34 ◼   ► and it looks at how they're improving.

00:26:36 ◼   ► It tracks your fatigue, it tracks your recovery, it helps design that well-balanced workout

00:26:41 ◼   ► routine because things will be better when it's all working together.

00:26:43 ◼   ► You don't overwork or underwork muscles.

00:26:46 ◼   ► You will get bad bad results that way.

00:26:48 ◼   ► It's gonna negatively impact your results.

00:26:49 ◼   ► So they make sure that they build this plan which is also going to

00:26:52 ◼   ► mean that you're not going to get bored because you're going to be getting

00:26:55 ◼   ► new types of workouts, new types of circuits, that kind of stuff which is

00:26:58 ◼   ► what I love because it keeps me engaged from doing the same exercises all

00:27:01 ◼   ► the time.

00:27:02 ◼   ► I can find that to be boring.

00:27:03 ◼   ► I like that Fitbod mixes it up.

00:27:05 ◼   ► Uh you can be sure you're learning new movements the right way thanks to

00:27:08 ◼   ► more than 1,000 demonstration videos.

00:27:11 ◼   ► Their app is super easy to use, so you see these videos, and you

00:27:14 ◼   ► can also see the exercises really easily there too.

00:27:16 ◼   ► You can stay informed with their progress tracking charts, weekly reports and sharing cards.

00:27:21 ◼   ► This will let you keep track of your achievements and personal bests and share

00:27:24 ◼   ► them with your friends and family.

00:27:25 ◼   ► Fitbot also integrates with your Apple Watch, your Wear OS Smartwatch, and other apps

00:27:29 ◼   ► you might use like Strava and Apple Health.

00:27:32 ◼   ► Personalized training of this quality can be expensive.

00:27:35 ◼   ► Fitbod is only $15.99 a month or $95.99 a year, but you can get

00:27:39 ◼   ► $25% off your membership by signing up today at fitbod.me slash upgrade.

00:27:44 ◼   ► So go now and get your customized fitness plan at fitbod.me slash upgrade.

00:27:50 ◼   ► Once again, that is fitbod.me slash upgrade and you'll get twenty-five percent off your

00:27:54 ◼   ► membership.

00:27:54 ◼   ► Well thanks to Fitbud for the support of this show and relay.

00:27:58 ◼   ► Rumour Rumor roundup time, Jason Snell.

00:28:01 ◼   ► I guess ye ha.

00:28:02 ◼   ► You gotta get ready for a bunch of things.

00:28:05 ◼   ► You gotta get ready for it.

00:28:06 ◼   ► Yeehaw.

00:28:07 ◼   ► Yeehaw indeed.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Uh Mark Gurman is at Bloomberg is reporting that Apple is advancing their plans

00:28:12 ◼   ► to build a screenless fitness tracker.

00:28:15 ◼   ► He says that they have been exploring the category, developing prototypes as well.

00:28:20 ◼   ► It now has the backing of several senior executives at Apple, so it's being

00:28:24 ◼   ► moved forward to what is called the technology investigation stage.

00:28:29 ◼   ► If the work continues to be positive, we would expect to see something maybe

00:28:33 ◼   ► in twenty twenty eight.

00:28:35 ◼   ► I gotta pause and on that timeline.

00:28:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:38 ◼   ► So this is a thing I think we talk about a lot and have

00:28:42 ◼   ► spoken about a lot.

00:28:42 ◼   ► We spoke about a lot with the smart glasses thing, which we'll in a

00:28:46 ◼   ► little bit too.

00:28:46 ◼   ► So there's also something in uh a later report about this.

00:28:50 ◼   ► I know it's hard to build products.

00:28:52 ◼   ► Like I understand that.

00:28:54 ◼   ► And And the problem that Apple has is specifically difficult because every product they

00:28:59 ◼   ► make is put under the microscope, right?

00:29:02 ◼   ► It's under intense scrutiny from the public, um and has to be ready to

00:29:07 ◼   ► be potentially sold in immense volume, right?

00:29:10 ◼   ► I I understand how that creates complications,

00:29:16 ◼   ► but that's a real long timeline for a product category that they they understand

00:29:22 ◼   ► the majority of how to make something like this.

00:29:25 ◼   ► It's it's not like a brand new area for them, you know?

00:29:29 ◼   ► And right.

00:29:30 ◼   ► Like I smart glasses would be harder because that is a

00:29:34 ◼   ► very different form factor to fit your technology inside of.

00:29:40 ◼   ► But they know how to make a good band and they know how to

00:29:42 ◼   ► put sensors in a puck.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Yeah, and they've got a whole framework for it with Apple Health.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:49 ◼   ► So I I yes, we we talked about this with regard to the glasses

00:29:54 ◼   ► and I did a little rant, which again, I like you said, I know

00:29:58 ◼   ► it's hard.

00:29:59 ◼   ► I know they have to build at volume.

00:30:01 ◼   ► I get it.

00:30:02 ◼   ► But I feel like and I know that Apple today is not the Apple

00:30:06 ◼   ► of 25 years ago.

00:30:08 ◼   ► But I feel like the company

00:30:12 ◼   ► needs

00:30:14 ◼   ► And this is like this is like a note for John Turnus, right?

00:30:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:18 ◼   ► And for Johnny Scruggy as the head of hardware.

00:30:21 ◼   ► It feels like Apple needs a way to move fast.

00:30:27 ◼   ► And I see no evidence that Apple knows how to move fast anymore.

00:30:32 ◼   ► And part of that is their size.

00:30:33 ◼   ► I get it.

00:30:36 ◼   ► But uh the size of the company and the size of the market, that

00:30:39 ◼   ► if they put out a product, they're gonna sell millions and millions of them

00:30:41 ◼   ► and they've gotta source the

00:30:44 ◼   ► They gotta figure out where they're getting the parts from and they gotta figure

00:30:47 ◼   ► out how they're manufacturing.

00:30:48 ◼   ► Like I get that it's more complicated than it was in the past, but

00:30:52 ◼   ► there are gonna be times, if there aren't, where you're gonna need to move

00:30:56 ◼   ► fast and you're gonna need to challenge your people like how do we build

00:30:59 ◼   ► this product in 12 months?

00:31:01 ◼   ► And if the answer everybody gives you is, well, it's impossible in 12 months,

00:31:04 ◼   ► I would say maybe you do need to challenge those people and see what

00:31:08 ◼   ► happens.

00:31:09 ◼   ► And maybe if they say twenty-four months and you say twelve months, it turns

00:31:13 ◼   ► out that they can do it in twelve months.

00:31:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:15 ◼   ► Maybe it takes them 15 months, maybe it takes them 18 months.

00:31:18 ◼   ► But anything that shaves off of the 24 months would be good.

00:31:22 ◼   ► And so like I don't wanna I don't wanna be that person who's like,

00:31:25 ◼   ► oh that just fix this bug or add this feature.

00:31:27 ◼   ► It's an easy fix.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Cause I d I know it's hard.

00:31:29 ◼   ► I know it's hard.

00:31:31 ◼   ► But I think this is a skill Apple needs to have, not for every

00:31:35 ◼   ► product, but in its toolbox to get a a crash project out the door

00:31:41 ◼   ► yep quickly.

00:31:43 ◼   ► And not quickly like next month, but quickly like in the next year, let's

00:31:47 ◼   ► say.

00:31:48 ◼   ► And the reason I mentioned twenty five years is you and I are producing

00:31:52 ◼   ► a series that is gonna come out and design in California next month, which

00:31:56 ◼   ► is about the origins of the iPod.

00:31:58 ◼   ► Yep.

00:31:58 ◼   ► Which is turning twenty-five this fall.

00:32:02 ◼   ► And

00:32:04 ◼   ► the iPod,

00:32:06 ◼   ► put it this way.

00:32:08 ◼   ► Um John Rubenstein

00:32:11 ◼   ► and Jeff Williams are in Japan in January, I think.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I think it's January, meeting with

00:32:21 ◼   ► vendors.

00:32:22 ◼   ► Yep.

00:32:22 ◼   ► And they meet with maybe it's February, I don't meeting and they meet with

00:32:25 ◼   ► Toshiba,

00:32:28 ◼   ► who shows them this weird little hard drive that is way smaller than a

00:32:33 ◼   ► laptop drive and holds five gigs.

00:32:36 ◼   ► And they've been thinking of doing a music player.

00:32:40 ◼   ► And literally John Rubinstein goes outside and calls Steve Jobs and says, I need

00:32:45 ◼   ► you to write me a check for you remember what it was?

00:32:48 ◼   ► A billion dollars?

00:32:50 ◼   ► No five five A hundred million, I think.

00:32:52 ◼   ► Fifty a hundred million dollars.

00:32:54 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:32:54 ◼   ► A lot of money.

00:32:55 ◼   ► A lot of money.

00:32:56 ◼   ► Because they want to buy the entire production run of this hard drive.

00:33:01 ◼   ► That was early 2001

00:33:05 ◼   ► and the iPod shipped in November of 2001.

00:33:08 ◼   ► Again, different time, different scale, different volume, different I get it, but they took

00:33:14 ◼   ► a product from parts and an idea.

00:33:17 ◼   ► They had a software, they had an OS that they had to get, th

00:33:21 ◼   ► which they didn't make themselves, a UI to put on top of it, an

00:33:24 ◼   ► entire industrial design.

00:33:25 ◼   ► They had Johnny Ive had to choose the right shade of white.

00:33:29 ◼   ► This is like a real trailer for design in California, but like they did

00:33:33 ◼   ► it in less than a year from conception to shape.

00:33:36 ◼   ► It was February they went.

00:33:38 ◼   ► I just checked our script and it was ten million was the amount of

00:33:41 ◼   ► money that we have.

00:33:41 ◼   ► Ten million.

00:33:42 ◼   ► Write me a check for ten million on Steve Jobs, of course.

00:33:44 ◼   ► The thing you always want to hear when you ask somebody, can you write

00:33:47 ◼   ► me a check for ten million?

00:33:48 ◼   ► is yes, I will do that.

00:33:50 ◼   ► So so they went from February finding the hard drive to shipping the product

00:33:53 ◼   ► built around the hard drive in November.

00:33:56 ◼   ► And I know it's not 2001.

00:34:00 ◼   ► And I know Apple has changed.

00:34:01 ◼   ► Again, I want to be as understanding as possible before I say you gotta

00:34:06 ◼   ► be able to make products faster than this.

00:34:08 ◼   ► You just you just you need to have in your tool set the ability

00:34:12 ◼   ► to make a crash pro program happen because you don't wanna get caught years

00:34:19 ◼   ► behind the curve on something that you realize is super important.

00:34:22 ◼   ► And all the glasses stuff is like that.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Like it's gone so far that there Apple is working on a compromise to

00:34:31 ◼   ► the metaglasses that is just an audio product.

00:34:35 ◼   ► I think and meta has backed off of their product to release another product

00:34:40 ◼   ► that's an audio like even the reactions to the reactions are happening faster than

00:34:44 ◼   ► Apple's reactions.

00:34:45 ◼   ► It's it just seems like

00:34:49 ◼   ► They need

00:34:51 ◼   ► again, not for everything, but they need the ability to move fast when they

00:34:55 ◼   ► decide they need to.

00:34:57 ◼   ► I think I think you almost want to do something like this just as

00:34:59 ◼   ► a test.

00:35:00 ◼   ► Like let's see if we can build the skills to do this.

00:35:03 ◼   ► What would what would happen if we tried to make a product?

00:35:06 ◼   ► It really feels like a product where you could do that test.

00:35:09 ◼   ► Because it is by design a simplified version of a thing you already make.

00:35:15 ◼   ► Yeah, you've got all the parts here.

00:35:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Right?

00:35:17 ◼   ► I mean really it's like can you take a small relatively small team and

00:35:21 ◼   ► say, using what we've got on Apple Watch and Apple Health, can you do

00:35:25 ◼   ► me can you do a fitness band?

00:35:27 ◼   ► And rather than having it go through prototype and technology investigation, we've done that.

00:35:31 ◼   ► Now I want you to get a product that we could start to manufacture

00:35:34 ◼   ► by the end of the year.

00:35:35 ◼   ► What would happen?

00:35:36 ◼   ► Uh not this, not in September, but like by the end of next year

00:35:39 ◼   ► or by the middle of next year, something like that.

00:35:41 ◼   ► What a product we could ship

00:35:43 ◼   ► in the fall of twenty twenty seven.

00:35:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:47 ◼   ► And w I I would love again, you almost want to do it just

00:35:52 ◼   ► to learn what the production issues are.

00:35:55 ◼   ► Are are we too slow or are we just right?

00:35:58 ◼   ► Even if it's a disaster, you'd learn something, right?

00:36:00 ◼   ► So I I feel like this is some it's just a skill they gotta

00:36:04 ◼   ► they gotta be better at this.

00:36:04 ◼   ► They're too slow.

00:36:06 ◼   ► And I I feel like, you know, it it is we are being harsh,

00:36:10 ◼   ► but the reason we're being harsh is because of this story that we have

00:36:15 ◼   ► just looked at in great detail.

00:36:17 ◼   ► And like when you hear all of the story about how they put the

00:36:21 ◼   ► iPod together so quickly, with what must be stated.

00:36:25 ◼   ► Infinitesimal resources compared to what they have at their disposal today.

00:36:30 ◼   ► It kind of makes you wonder like, are you too stuck in your bureaucracy

00:36:37 ◼   ► that you can't move forward.

00:36:40 ◼   ► Also, I will say, I don't know if John Turnus is the problem or

00:36:44 ◼   ► the solution here, because John Turnus is a product of Apple's hardware development group.

00:36:47 ◼   ► Maybe he looks at it and says, no, no, no, no, no.

00:36:50 ◼   ► The way we get Apple products the way we like them is by taking

00:36:53 ◼   ► several years to build a lot of time.

00:36:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:55 ◼   ► Or we don't know.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Or maybe John Turnus, now that he's the CEO, looks at it and is

00:36:59 ◼   ► like, Yeah.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Finally, you know.

00:37:01 ◼   ► Why we need to step it up.

00:37:03 ◼   ► We need to try this.

00:37:04 ◼   ► I hope that's it.

00:37:05 ◼   ► I I like I said, I don't know what the right time time span

00:37:08 ◼   ► is for something like this, but I would hope that John Turnus and Johnny

00:37:11 ◼   ► Shroogie in his new role would have a conversation that would be something like,

00:37:16 ◼   ► Why don't we try to create the skill to do a product faster for

00:37:22 ◼   ► the ones where we really need to do it faster.

00:37:25 ◼   ► Like not all of them need to be on this track.

00:37:28 ◼   ► Maybe there's another way that we could learn from and maybe learn, take some

00:37:32 ◼   ► of the stuff we learn and put it into our other process so that

00:37:36 ◼   ► it's a little more nimble too.

00:37:37 ◼   ► This is why I perked up so much when Mark German reported that they

00:37:40 ◼   ► were gonna ditch the high level M six chips and go to the M

00:37:43 ◼   ► seven.

00:37:44 ◼   ► It's like, oh, Apple going off path as some do some.

00:37:47 ◼   ► Showing some like nimbleness in the developer.

00:37:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:51 ◼   ► You love to see it.

00:37:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:53 ◼   ► More of that, please.

00:37:55 ◼   ► As we spoke about previously, this screenless fitness tracker is a area of focus

00:37:59 ◼   ► for Eddie G.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Q, who is a fan of the Whoop Band, and has been and this

00:38:04 ◼   ► is something that's been progressed significantly since he took over the health team.

00:38:08 ◼   ► I like this because it's like I like the idea of an executive of

00:38:13 ◼   ► a particular point of view pushing pushing something forward.

00:38:16 ◼   ► I d I just think that that is that feels good to me, right?

00:38:19 ◼   ► Like there are good ways and bad ways of doing something like this, but

00:38:23 ◼   ► I like that he's like, no, we should be doing this.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Like, come on, let's go over there and do this.

00:38:28 ◼   ► Like I don't want to hear these excuses anymore We're we're going and doing

00:38:31 ◼   ► this.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Um, a product like this kind of thing, I think also enforces

00:38:37 ◼   ► and is a good thing for what they're doing with the health app.

00:38:41 ◼   ► The health app is pushing into the areas that companies like Whoop and the

00:38:47 ◼   ► Ura Ring and all of these companies are in.

00:38:49 ◼   ► So it's like we were talking about earlier readiness, but also the health age,

00:38:52 ◼   ► the fact that you can upload and they they actually really encourage you to

00:38:58 ◼   ► give them blood test results and stuff like that to to kind of build

00:39:01 ◼   ► out your longevity scores and stuff.

00:39:03 ◼   ► Like these are things that these more hyper Hyper-focused fitness and health tracking devices

00:39:10 ◼   ► really encourage, and it's been their point of differentiation against Apple, which was more

00:39:14 ◼   ► focused around the activity rings.

00:39:17 ◼   ► But clearly, someone, maybe Eddy Q, maybe others, have liked the experience that companies

00:39:23 ◼   ► like Woop provide so much that they've decided they're going to start pushing more

00:39:26 ◼   ► aggressively um into some of these more niche areas of health.

00:39:31 ◼   ► Yeah, which they which I mean that's great.

00:39:33 ◼   ► It's just very funny that you know they've got all the pieces here.

00:39:36 ◼   ► They just need to decide.

00:39:37 ◼   ► Might the other thing that I've railed about recently, so I won't go over

00:39:40 ◼   ► it again, but you and I have talked about that um it feels like

00:39:45 ◼   ► Apple's attitude when they ship the Apple Watch is there will be no other

00:39:47 ◼   ► wearable but the Apple Watch on your wrist.

00:39:50 ◼   ► No the you know that the the the only possible form that this could

00:39:54 ◼   ► take is is a is a full-on Apple Watch.

00:39:57 ◼   ► And like I don't know culturally why that happened, but um it's bizarre and

00:40:03 ◼   ► wrong.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Like not everyone wants an Apple Watch.

00:40:07 ◼   ► Could we you've got the pieces.

00:40:09 ◼   ► If people keep telling you, and I keep hearing from people, like I don't

00:40:12 ◼   ► want an Apple Watch.

00:40:13 ◼   ► I like my watch.

00:40:14 ◼   ► I do wear a fitness band, or I want a fitness band, or I'd

00:40:17 ◼   ► be interested in a fitness band.

00:40:18 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, maybe listen to that.

00:40:21 ◼   ► That not one size does not fit all.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Not everybody wants an Apple Watch.

00:40:25 ◼   ► So what are you going to do about it?

00:40:26 ◼   ► And for years it seems like Apple's answer was nothing.

00:40:30 ◼   ► Buy an Apple Watch or or or else.

00:40:33 ◼   ► And uh that's dumb.

00:40:35 ◼   ► So I'm glad that's someone else needs another excuse to tell somebody at Apple.

00:40:40 ◼   ► You've also got customers like me where I want to wear an Apple Watch

00:40:44 ◼   ► most of the time but sometimes I wanna nicer watch.

00:40:49 ◼   ► But then I would also have the fitness ban for that.

00:40:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:40:52 ◼   ► So I would buy, hey, I'll buy two products.

00:40:55 ◼   ► What do you think of that?

00:40:56 ◼   ► One customer, two products.

00:40:57 ◼   ► Like I think that is also a thing where people would sometimes want one

00:41:01 ◼   ► or the other depending on what they're doing.

00:41:04 ◼   ► Because I would very easily wear a band that's just like a nice cloth

00:41:08 ◼   ► bracelet that's gonna sit very nicely under a shirt and wear a watch that

00:41:12 ◼   ► I like, but I don't need that every day.

00:41:15 ◼   ► So then I could end up with hey, two products of the same customer.

00:41:18 ◼   ► We know you love that.

00:41:19 ◼   ► So uh incredible.

00:41:20 ◼   ► Imagine the possibilities.

00:41:22 ◼   ► Uh in this report, Mark Gurman says that work on Apple's AI AI pendant

00:41:26 ◼   ► has been postponed.

00:41:27 ◼   ► I think that they're probably gonna wanna wait to see how the watch features

00:41:31 ◼   ► and these camera airpods and stuff kind of land with people maybe before pursuing

00:41:37 ◼   ► a very AI focused device.

00:41:39 ◼   ► 'Cause I just don't know what customer appetite's gonna be for this kind of

00:41:43 ◼   ► stuff.

00:41:44 ◼   ► Right.

00:41:44 ◼   ► You would assume that that AI pendant would do all the things that are

00:41:47 ◼   ► in the Apple Watch.

00:41:48 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:41:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Or that like, could it really do anything that the Apple Watch couldn't?

00:41:55 ◼   ► Like

00:41:56 ◼   ► realistically?

00:41:57 ◼   ► So I well again, but you know, not everyone wants to wear an Apple

00:42:01 ◼   ► Watch, so maybe, but it doesn't feel as pressing a a product need.

00:42:05 ◼   ► It doesn't.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Honestly.

00:42:06 ◼   ► And And the report uh this this report also closes out with another mention

00:42:10 ◼   ► of a big redesign coming for the Apple Watch in twenty twenty seven, which

00:42:14 ◼   ► we've heard before from Mark, and you know, maybe this is the one that

00:42:17 ◼   ► breaks ban compatibility, that kind of stuff.

00:42:20 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:42:21 ◼   ► But how many times have we heard about a watch redesign that's never come?

00:42:25 ◼   ► Flat edge watch design, remember that?

00:42:28 ◼   ► Oh boy, was that a rumor.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Yeah sure.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Uh in Power On this week, Mark Homer's newsletter, he also, uh, in kind

00:42:34 ◼   ► of in the context of talking about Meta's new VR glasses product that they

00:42:38 ◼   ► showed off last week.

00:42:39 ◼   ► Um, he shares that Apple's Vision team is working on a new version of

00:42:43 ◼   ► the Vision Pro.

00:42:45 ◼   ► There are four concepts that they're working on right now.

00:42:48 ◼   ► The new design with kind of with new ideas that offload some computing from

00:42:53 ◼   ► the headset itself, which is what Meta has done.

00:42:55 ◼   ► They've put all of the computing in the puck and have made essentially a

00:42:59 ◼   ► pair of safety goggles, is what it looks like.

00:43:02 ◼   ► And it's very light and that's just where the screens are.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Um but no matter what Apple decides on, the company knows they need to

00:43:09 ◼   ► find ways to make the product both cheaper and lighter if they want to

00:43:13 ◼   ► produce something that people will actually buy.

00:43:16 ◼   ► They're exploring different materials like plastic and titanium to reduce weight.

00:43:21 ◼   ► But no matter what, the focus from the company in general right now is

00:43:25 ◼   ► on smart glasses, which are still on track for next year.

00:43:28 ◼   ► But they're they have something bubbling.

00:43:30 ◼   ► It seems like maybe they have something bubbling again with vision where maybe it

00:43:33 ◼   ► wasn't bubbling so much um in in recent history.

00:43:38 ◼   ► So yeah, so that's where they are right now with all that stuff.

00:43:42 ◼   ► Sure.

00:43:42 ◼   ► I mean the the the meta thing is interesting because it's lower one of

00:43:46 ◼   ► the things they've done is they made the screen lower quality than the Vision

00:43:50 ◼   ► Pro.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Um, but

00:43:53 ◼   ► it's all about getting the price down and it's still not cheap, but it's

00:43:56 ◼   ► way cheaper than the Vision Pro.

00:43:58 ◼   ► It's like a price or something like that.

00:44:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:01 ◼   ► It does feel like even even this product of a lighter, cheaper Vision Pro,

00:44:07 ◼   ► I'm not sure all the pieces are there for it to make sense.

00:44:09 ◼   ► Cause I look at the meta product, I'm like, well, this is interesting.

00:44:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:13 ◼   ► But is this even a product that anybody's gonna want?

00:44:17 ◼   ► Or do you really want something, you know, even cheaper and and that we

00:44:23 ◼   ► just like the tech is not is not there.

00:44:25 ◼   ► Like when John Turnus was quoted as saying, like it's the early days of

00:44:28 ◼   ► c personal computers a little bit.

00:44:29 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, the tech is not there the to make it at the

00:44:33 ◼   ► weight and the price they would like.

00:44:34 ◼   ► That said, I do keep coming back to the idea that um Apple refused

00:44:40 ◼   ► for design reasons, I guess, to put they've got the big battery, but they

00:44:43 ◼   ► refuse to put the compute on uh the external blob.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Or any compute.

00:44:48 ◼   ► Not even all of it, but like any of it.

00:44:50 ◼   ► And like and and the the the the com the computing stuff is on

00:44:54 ◼   ► the blob on meta's in addition to battery, it's like if you're gonna have

00:44:59 ◼   ► a a side blob, why would you not put more stuff in the blob

00:45:04 ◼   ► and off of your head so that you could put it in a pocket

00:45:07 ◼   ► or something.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Plus the idea that we've talked about before of like, or maybe you make

00:45:13 ◼   ► it that it's driven by optionally driven by a different Apple product.

00:45:17 ◼   ► And maybe that's a Mac or maybe it's a thing that you buy for

00:45:21 ◼   ► the device, but that it it could be either one.

00:45:24 ◼   ► Maybe it's even driven by, I don't know, an iPad or a or an

00:45:27 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:45:29 ◼   ► But um I don't know.

00:45:31 ◼   ► I I it just like all the stories where m everybody says, Oh, John

00:45:35 ◼   ► Turner's was down on the Vision Pro as a product, it's like, well, I

00:45:38 ◼   ► mean, he should have been, 'cause it's too heavy and it doesn't make sense.

00:45:41 ◼   ► The tech is really amazing, but like it there's not a product there yet

00:45:44 ◼   ► and there may not be for years.

00:45:46 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:45:47 ◼   ► I'm glad they're noodling with it and thinking about it, but I I still

00:45:50 ◼   ► wonder if the answer is gonna be, yeah, Meta's doing this thing, but even

00:45:54 ◼   ► that is too expensive and doesn't really make sense and the quality is lower.

00:45:58 ◼   ► Maybe it's a good thing to do.

00:46:00 ◼   ► I do think like I I I would love a

00:46:05 ◼   ► light,

00:46:07 ◼   ► small, packable, wearable on an airplane

00:46:12 ◼   ► device that lets me watch movies really nice.

00:46:16 ◼   ► Have you ever tried those X Real glasses?

00:46:20 ◼   ► X reels?

00:46:21 ◼   ► I haven't.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Because I hear nothing but good things from people that use those.

00:46:26 ◼   ► And that is exactly what your That's what those are.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:31 ◼   ► And they don't

00:46:32 ◼   ► as one of their sets.

00:46:35 ◼   ► Um so and they're all like USB C, so you can like plug them

00:46:39 ◼   ► into basically anything and it and they'll work.

00:46:42 ◼   ► So I mean, I feel like I agree that the meta product is interesting,

00:46:47 ◼   ► but it's still not there.

00:46:49 ◼   ► But it feels like that form factor wise is closer to whatever there is

00:46:53 ◼   ► than the Vision Pro.

00:46:55 ◼   ► Right?

00:46:55 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like it's com it looks like it's comfortable to wear on your

00:46:59 ◼   ► face rather than being really heavy.

00:47:02 ◼   ► And it's way cheaper.

00:47:03 ◼   ► And so we'll see what they end up doing with this, if anything.

00:47:10 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Keeper.

00:47:13 ◼   ► We're always switching devices from phones to laptops to a different computer, maybe for

00:47:18 ◼   ► work.

00:47:18 ◼   ► And every time you're stuck typing in variations of passwords that are barely memorable,

00:47:23 ◼   ► that friction disappears the moment you start using Keeper.

00:47:26 ◼   ► It remembers, fills in, and just works whatever you're logging in from.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Keeper is a password manager that creates strong, unique passwords for all of your

00:47:35 ◼   ► accounts, stores them securely in one place, and logs you in automatically across all

00:47:39 ◼   ► of your devices.

00:47:40 ◼   ► So you never have to remember, guess, or worry about getting locked out of

00:47:44 ◼   ► your accounts today.

00:47:45 ◼   ► This is a life changing technology if you're not do using keeper or if

00:47:50 ◼   ► you're like why come on this is like right there for you all your

00:47:53 ◼   ► passwords saved everywhere you want to be.

00:47:55 ◼   ► Whether you're running a household or a business, the same system extends to your

00:47:59 ◼   ► whole team.

00:47:59 ◼   ► You control who has access to what, share logins securely, and keep data protected

00:48:04 ◼   ► without adding extra work to anyone's day.

00:48:07 ◼   ► It doesn't feel like extra security and that's the point.

00:48:09 ◼   ► Auto fill, face ID, fingerprint login.

00:48:12 ◼   ► It's fast enough that protection's happening in the background whether you're at your desk

00:48:16 ◼   ► or on your couch.

00:48:17 ◼   ► From individuals to families to growing companies, keepers, the password manager, millions turn to

00:48:22 ◼   ► when they want their accounts actually locked down tight.

00:48:25 ◼   ► I really like their how they embrace two factor codes and that's all built

00:48:29 ◼   ► in so it's very easy to generate two factor codes, which is that extra

00:48:32 ◼   ► layer of security, but then you're not having to get text messages or emails,

00:48:36 ◼   ► you can do them with keeper so you can get what you need to

00:48:40 ◼   ► be able to have that extra layer and log in really easily.

00:48:43 ◼   ► And they have autofill for all this taken care of with the keeper fill

00:48:47 ◼   ► technology on every platform.

00:48:48 ◼   ► This is a must have for me.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Right now keeper is offering our listeners 60% off personal or family plans by

00:48:55 ◼   ► going to keeper security.com slash upgrade pod.

00:48:58 ◼   ► This awesome offer is only available because you listen to this show.

00:49:02 ◼   ► That is K-E-E-P-E-R security dot com slash upgrade pod for sixty percent off your

00:49:09 ◼   ► personal or family plan.

00:49:10 ◼   ► And if you're running a team at work, check out keeper's business plans.

00:49:14 ◼   ► Just make sure you use our link so that they know we sent you

00:49:16 ◼   ► one last time that is keeperscurity.com slash upgrade pod, and the link is in

00:49:21 ◼   ► the show notes.

00:49:21 ◼   ► Our thanks to Keeper Security for their support of this show and relay.

00:49:26 ◼   ► You wrote an article that I enjoyed uh a couple of days ago, um

00:49:31 ◼   ► which is imagining the next MacBook Neo is the is the idea.

00:49:36 ◼   ► And I thought we could have fun with charts.

00:49:39 ◼   ► He loves the charts.

00:49:40 ◼   ► And I thought we could maybe uh just use this as a a time

00:49:43 ◼   ► to also kind of like Check in on the Neo a bit and kind

00:49:47 ◼   ► of talk about where it is and where it could go.

00:49:50 ◼   ► So it's been about six months actually since the Neo came out.

00:49:54 ◼   ► So it came out in March.

00:49:55 ◼   ► Um and so, you know, we're less than half a year in.

00:50:00 ◼   ► Uh I think undoubtedly, even at this point, that product is a hit product.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Like Apple knocked it out of the park.

00:50:06 ◼   ► They created a product that people wanted.

00:50:08 ◼   ► Um, it had a great launch and there's there's always a whole setup of

00:50:13 ◼   ► them in Apple stores and I always see people there.

00:50:15 ◼   ► When I was buying my when I bought my iPhone, I went to the

00:50:18 ◼   ► Apple store on launch day, someone next to me was buying a MacBook Neo.

00:50:21 ◼   ► I'm like, today?

00:50:23 ◼   ► Today's the day you're buying it?

00:50:24 ◼   ► But that they wanted that that green MacBook Neo so they did it.

00:50:27 ◼   ► Um the starting configuration for the MacBook Neo is six hundred and ninety nine

00:50:32 ◼   ► dollars now or five ninety nine of an education discount, which is kind of

00:50:35 ◼   ► the real price of that product, really, uh, for a lot of people that

00:50:38 ◼   ► are buying it.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Um, and that gives you a 256 gigabyte SSD, eight gigabytes of RAM, powered

00:50:44 ◼   ► obviously by the A eighteen pro chip.

00:50:46 ◼   ► You bump it up by a hundred and you get touch ID and the

00:50:49 ◼   ► five twelve SSD.

00:50:50 ◼   ► So this is a hundred dollars more than when it started, right?

00:50:53 ◼   ► Um Um but I still stand by it being competitive because of the market.

00:50:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:50:58 ◼   ► So compared to what is out there, this product is very cheap.

00:51:02 ◼   ► I mean I don't know if you've been seeing much of this Google book

00:51:07 ◼   ► thing.

00:51:08 ◼   ► Have you has this come across your your world?

00:51:10 ◼   ► So there Google has created another operating system called Google Book OS, and they

00:51:15 ◼   ► have a bunch of products that are Google Books, and it's essentially Android like

00:51:21 ◼   ► a version of Android as a desktop operating system and they're like twelve hundred

00:51:26 ◼   ► dollars.

00:51:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:28 ◼   ► When you can go get a seven hundred dollar Mac, like I don't understand

00:51:32 ◼   ► who that customer is, really.

00:51:34 ◼   ► Like

00:51:35 ◼   ► this is a real computer.

00:51:38 ◼   ► It's not an Android or iOS-based computer.

00:51:41 ◼   ► This is a real computer.

00:51:43 ◼   ► It looks great, has the features you want, and you can get it for

00:51:46 ◼   ► $700.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Um It's interesting that Apple has not made any other changes to its availability

00:51:53 ◼   ► or pricing.

00:51:54 ◼   ► Like months ago we were talking a lot about what are they gonna do?

00:51:58 ◼   ► This product's been such a hit.

00:52:00 ◼   ► How are they gonna support this product?

00:52:01 ◼   ► We were wondering if they were gonna take one of them off the market.

00:52:04 ◼   ► Yeah, the report is that they ended up deciding they were just going to

00:52:06 ◼   ► pay T S M C to make more chips for it, more A seventeen

00:52:10 ◼   ► Pro chips for it so that they could keep selling it, which they've apparent

00:52:13 ◼   ► done.

00:52:14 ◼   ► Which is interesting, but they just keep selling it.

00:52:15 ◼   ► Because it's like now they've had to pay a higher price for the chips

00:52:19 ◼   ► and they're paying a higher price for the RAM and it only went up

00:52:23 ◼   ► by a hundred.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Which I think is like obviously this product has a smaller amount of RAM

00:52:28 ◼   ► than a lot of Apple's other products, right?

00:52:30 ◼   ► Like even the phone.

00:52:31 ◼   ► The A seventeen has eight gigs of RAM.

00:52:34 ◼   ► The A seventeen has eight.

00:52:36 ◼   ► The A eighteen and A nine or the sorry the A eighteen has eight

00:52:39 ◼   ► gigs of RAM.

00:52:40 ◼   ► The A nineteen and A twenty have twelve.

00:52:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:44 ◼   ► So going to a new processor will cost them.

00:52:48 ◼   ► Right, obviously.

00:52:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:49 ◼   ► So maybe they were able to, you know, put that price up to that

00:52:53 ◼   ► level, but it's actually not as big of a hit in the RAM department

00:52:57 ◼   ► and maybe they've been able to absorb some of the cost of having to

00:53:01 ◼   ► pay a lot of money for chips, right?

00:53:04 ◼   ► Like as we mentioned before, chips that were for this product essentially supposed to

00:53:07 ◼   ► be free.

00:53:08 ◼   ► Like that was that was the idea for this product.

00:53:11 ◼   ► Is these are chips that that just didn't didn't get put in iPhones.

00:53:16 ◼   ► Uh so exactly.

00:53:18 ◼   ► So you uh I think were kind of encouraged to write this because now

00:53:22 ◼   ► we have two more pro chips that have come out, right?

00:53:25 ◼   ► Since the one that's in this machine.

00:53:26 ◼   ► Right.

00:53:27 ◼   ► And and and you know, new iPhones, you don't normally think new Macs, but

00:53:32 ◼   ► now we have to.

00:53:33 ◼   ► The A twenty pro and last year's A nineteen Pro are on deck to

00:53:38 ◼   ► be in the MacBook Neo in the future.

00:53:41 ◼   ► And so, you know, obviously the A twenty pro is much more accomplished than

00:53:47 ◼   ► the A nineteen pro.

00:53:48 ◼   ► And so the question is just, one, are they gonna just go to the

00:53:53 ◼   ► A nineteen pro and what does that look like?

00:53:55 ◼   ► You know, next year when they when they revise the Neo, or would they

00:54:00 ◼   ► go to the A twenty pro?

00:54:01 ◼   ► I think it's less likely that they will.

00:54:03 ◼   ► I think that they'll use the year old chip and not the few months

00:54:07 ◼   ► old chip.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Um but I wanted to look at performance on both of them and then

00:54:10 ◼   ► just you know, again, just kind of dream on it a little bit.

00:54:13 ◼   ► Just kind of imagine what are the what do those presumably next two generations

00:54:17 ◼   ► of MacBook Neo look like in terms of performance.

00:54:20 ◼   ► Um, starting with the fact that they'd have twelve gigs of RAM, presumably, because

00:54:24 ◼   ► that's what the A nineteen and A twenty have.

00:54:26 ◼   ► So more memory, which is probably good.

00:54:29 ◼   ► And and then we look at the chips and it's just funny, like the

00:54:33 ◼   ► A nineteen Pro Not super inspiring.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Honestly.

00:54:38 ◼   ► It's still

00:54:40 ◼   ► basically in the ballpark of an M one for CPU and around like M

00:54:44 ◼   ► two or M three, which are very close to each other in terms of

00:54:47 ◼   ► GPU.

00:54:47 ◼   ► So it's not it it really is just sort of like kick the can

00:54:51 ◼   ► down the road a little bit.

00:54:52 ◼   ► You still got something that's basically uh M one ish in the form of

00:54:57 ◼   ► the Neo, which remember we all sort of think the Neo is essentially the

00:55:01 ◼   ► replacement for the M one MacBook Air, which they were still selling.

00:55:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:05 ◼   ► Um, it's when you get to the A twenty where you uh you perk

00:55:08 ◼   ► up 'cause there's a big I mean there's a big change.

00:55:10 ◼   ► The A twenty pro

00:55:13 ◼   ► is about M2 CPU performance, so up A generation in a way that the

00:55:19 ◼   ► A19 Pro is not.

00:55:22 ◼   ► And

00:55:24 ◼   ► GPU-wise, it's like M4.

00:55:28 ◼   ► Like so it feels much more contemporary which is again probably why it won't

00:55:34 ◼   ► happen.

00:55:34 ◼   ► But I could see a scenario where they don't do the A nineteen and

00:55:39 ◼   ► they go to the A twenty.

00:55:40 ◼   ► But it probab it probably won't happen for a year, but

00:55:45 ◼   ► If it did, I mean that that an A twenty A twenty pro is

00:55:50 ◼   ► gonna be good in a Mac.

00:55:51 ◼   ► I guess that's my my real overarching point and why I wanted to write

00:55:54 ◼   ► the story is I look at the A twenty pro numbers and I think

00:55:56 ◼   ► that would actually do that would play pretty well in a MacBook Neo.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Yeah, and it's like

00:56:01 ◼   ► you've also got the neural improvements, right?

00:56:03 ◼   ► Like and again, I don't I don't know how much the Neural Engine stuff

00:56:07 ◼   ► really plays into the average customer's use case on a day to day basis.

00:56:11 ◼   ► But I think it's probably not it's only going to be more over time

00:56:14 ◼   ► though.

00:56:14 ◼   ► Is Is what I do feel, right?

00:56:15 ◼   ► But like I think GPUs are gonna be even more though, and the GPU

00:56:18 ◼   ► is

00:56:20 ◼   ► push the GPU.

00:56:21 ◼   ► The neural accelerators, right, inside of the cores, which the obviously the A eighteen

00:56:25 ◼   ► pro does not have in the way that the A twenty pro does have.

00:56:28 ◼   ► So like there are additional benefits there for technology that will come down the

00:56:33 ◼   ► line, right?

00:56:34 ◼   ► I feel like Apple and others are gonna start to build more stuff that

00:56:37 ◼   ► relies on this on this technology because they have it available to them.

00:56:42 ◼   ► So you could do more things with it.

00:56:44 ◼   ► Um it's wild, right, that like I'm I'm using uh my uh what do

00:56:49 ◼   ► I have M five?

00:56:50 ◼   ► Yeah the M five MacBook Air now and we are coming from the M2

00:56:53 ◼   ► MacBook Air Yeah.

00:56:54 ◼   ► I I want to correct you.

00:56:56 ◼   ► Okay A twenty pro is based on the M six architecture.

00:57:00 ◼   ► They're the same architecture.

00:57:02 ◼   ► Uhhuh.

00:57:02 ◼   ► And the GPU cores in the A twenty pro have the GPU accelerators in

00:57:06 ◼   ► them.

00:57:06 ◼   ► They yeah.

00:57:07 ◼   ► They do.

00:57:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:08 ◼   ► That's what I said.

00:57:08 ◼   ► That's so the phone the phone's got it.

00:57:11 ◼   ► Okay.

00:57:11 ◼   ► Cause I I I read that as as they don't, but they they do.

00:57:14 ◼   ► So that that there are a lot of GPU benefits to going uh up

00:57:18 ◼   ► as well.

00:57:19 ◼   ► More than the neural engine.

00:57:20 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah I I meant compared to maybe maybe I misspoke, but I meant

00:57:24 ◼   ► that like the the the A twenty has would have so much more potential

00:57:30 ◼   ► than the A eighteen does, right?

00:57:32 ◼   ► This like what's currently in the Mac.

00:57:34 ◼   ► Certainly.

00:57:35 ◼   ► Certainly although it's still, you know, we're still talking more like an M four

00:57:40 ◼   ► versus an M two or three.

00:57:41 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean that that's it we bring the I mean, the real

00:57:44 ◼   ► issue for Apple is like the cost, because that's a brand new two nanometer

00:57:48 ◼   ► process chip.

00:57:49 ◼   ► So it probably costs too much.

00:57:50 ◼   ► Probably not, you know.

00:57:51 ◼   ► And so next year we'll see the 19, which will be okay.

00:57:54 ◼   ► But I mean, that was part of my point here is that 18 to

00:57:58 ◼   ► 19, A18 Pro to A19 Pro, is not super exciting.

00:58:03 ◼   ► Um, it's better.

00:58:05 ◼   ► It's much better on the GPU side, but it's like but then you look

00:58:09 ◼   ► at the A twenty and you're like, oh, right, like, oh, I can see

00:58:11 ◼   ► where this is going.

00:58:12 ◼   ► Because the A twenty is a is a much more impressive story.

00:58:16 ◼   ► Yeah, and I you know, I I know what you mean about cost, but

00:58:19 ◼   ► I guess the thing about the MacBook Neo is just like how did they

00:58:22 ◼   ► pl make the plan for it, right?

00:58:24 ◼   ► Like what if the plan was always they were gonna do the A twenty

00:58:27 ◼   ► pro and then they just scale that chip production in such a way that

00:58:31 ◼   ► maybe it benefits, right?

00:58:32 ◼   ► Like that's the thing we just there's just no way of knowing that.

00:58:35 ◼   ► And I mean I'll throw out there too, the seventeen did really well.

00:58:39 ◼   ► The s iPhone seventeen.

00:58:41 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:58:42 ◼   ► So the question is did I have a lot of full line did incredibly

00:58:44 ◼   ► well.

00:58:45 ◼   ► So the question is one, did do they not have a lot?

00:58:49 ◼   ► Or two, because it was so successful, they do have a lot of bin

00:58:53 ◼   ► chips that they have they you know that that that actually helps the price

00:58:56 ◼   ► of of the chips because they had to scale and that at at the

00:59:00 ◼   ► scale maybe they have more of these affordable chips to go in the MacBook

00:59:04 ◼   ► Neo.

00:59:04 ◼   ► I don't I don't know.

00:59:05 ◼   ► I think yes, I think it's fun to dream on the A twenty MacBook

00:59:09 ◼   ► Neo, but uh realistically next year's MacBook Neo will be an A19.

00:59:13 ◼   ► I'm gonna ask a question that I think is stupid, but I want to

00:59:16 ◼   ► ask it anyway, because it popped into my head, which is like

00:59:19 ◼   ► is the Neo always gonna have an A-chip?

00:59:22 ◼   ► Like, why could it not have an M chip in it?

00:59:24 ◼   ► But could they put an L three in this or something instead?

00:59:29 ◼   ► I I I think mostly it comes down to production lines more than anything

00:59:32 ◼   ► else.

00:59:32 ◼   ► If they had a if they had a production line going that was running

00:59:35 ◼   ► on an old chip or they had a bunch of old chips binned, they

00:59:38 ◼   ► could probably do that.

00:59:39 ◼   ► But my guess is that there's just some fundamental things about the iPhone production

00:59:43 ◼   ► that make the Neo make sense for it because they've got those chips that

00:59:45 ◼   ► they're making that are lesser.

00:59:46 ◼   ► You're always gonna have more chips, right?

00:59:49 ◼   ► You're always gonna have more.

00:59:50 ◼   ► As long as the iPhone is using A chips instead of M chips, there

00:59:53 ◼   ► will always be a lower profile chip.

00:59:56 ◼   ► And so as long as the iPhone's not using M chips, right?

00:59:59 ◼   ► Which really, when you think about the A versus the M at this point,

01:00:02 ◼   ► they're obviously very similar.

01:00:03 ◼   ► The A the A20 Pro and the M6 are very, very, very close together.

01:00:07 ◼   ► But the M six has more of stuff than than the A twenty pro

01:00:12 ◼   ► is.

01:00:12 ◼   ► So on that on that level, it kinda makes sense that the MacBook Neo

01:00:16 ◼   ► always gets the the slim down because it's the MacBook Neo's existence shows you

01:00:22 ◼   ► that it you know, taking stuff stuff off of the M, which gives you

01:00:26 ◼   ► an A, is what the Neo is all about.

01:00:29 ◼   ► It's just one step down from the base.

01:00:32 ◼   ► So the M six.

01:00:33 ◼   ► So I mean they could, but I I I don't think they would make

01:00:36 ◼   ► it that.

01:00:36 ◼   ► I think that I think they're more likely to have this strategy.

01:00:40 ◼   ► I think it emerged from the strategy of using the iPhone chips, honestly.

01:00:43 ◼   ► It seems to me.

01:00:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:44 ◼   ► Most likely.

01:00:44 ◼   ► I agree.

01:00:45 ◼   ► It's just I it just popped into my head as a thought right?

01:00:47 ◼   ► Because it's like, what is the goal of this computer, you know, like ultimately?

01:00:51 ◼   ► And and can it be served by s doing something else?

01:00:56 ◼   ► My my my understanding anyway is you know They finish their run of M4s

01:01:01 ◼   ► and then they stop making the M4.

01:01:04 ◼   ► And so you would you would again be on this thing where it's just

01:01:08 ◼   ► because it's an older chip, like if you don't if you don't if you're

01:01:12 ◼   ► not paying to make them, you don't You only have a certain amount.

01:01:15 ◼   ► I mean they cost what they cost.

01:01:16 ◼   ► I think that's the challenge there is that is that production wise, they want

01:01:20 ◼   ► to be on to the next thing.

01:01:21 ◼   ► And the beauty of the using the A series is it gives you another

01:01:25 ◼   ► skew, basically, another product to put in a Mac at the low end, that's

01:01:31 ◼   ► in production or just left production.

01:01:33 ◼   ► I think that's probably what it's about.

01:01:35 ◼   ► So going back to the Neo, where thinking about a Neo two, I wanted

01:01:38 ◼   ► to touch on a few areas where I could see some improvement for this

01:01:42 ◼   ► product and we can wonder if they will do it yet or if it's

01:01:45 ◼   ► gonna maybe come down the line.

01:01:47 ◼   ► I think I think the thing that is th should be fixed s first

01:01:51 ◼   ► is the webcam.

01:01:53 ◼   ► So the Neo has the ten ATP FaceTime HD camera compared to say the

01:01:58 ◼   ► twelve megapixel center stage camera that the other laptops have.

01:02:03 ◼   ► I figure that's if you're gonna make a hardware improvement, that's probably the first

01:02:07 ◼   ► one that you make the Daniel, right?

01:02:09 ◼   ► Like that's gonna have the biggest impact for the user experience having a better

01:02:14 ◼   ► webcam?

01:02:16 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:02:17 ◼   ► Sure.

01:02:18 ◼   ► Sure.

01:02:18 ◼   ► People people would like it if it was nicer.

01:02:21 ◼   ► Um the question again, it all comes down to price and what you're willing

01:02:24 ◼   ► to do.

01:02:25 ◼   ► Apple has shown, I think, that there are moments where um they are more

01:02:31 ◼   ► generous with specs than you think.

01:02:32 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:02:33 ◼   ► And so

01:02:36 ◼   ► I think I think FaceTime camera is probably

01:02:42 ◼   ► number one.

01:02:44 ◼   ► And I might put a I might put another USB port.

01:02:50 ◼   ► That's a good one.

01:02:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:51 ◼   ► Or on the other side or something like that.

01:02:53 ◼   ► That like another USB port.

01:02:56 ◼   ► I I I would probably put on the list as a nice to have

01:02:59 ◼   ► as well, so that you can charge and plug some stuff in.

01:03:02 ◼   ► Although most people, you know, two ports is is plenty.

01:03:05 ◼   ► The fact that they did the work to have there be two ports there.

01:03:07 ◼   ► Um, but you know, that that might be a nice to have.

01:03:10 ◼   ► I I agree though, I think that in terms of appreciation, the the webcam

01:03:15 ◼   ► is probably number one for the users of the MacBook Neo.

01:03:18 ◼   ► Or maybe they could put MacSafe on it.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Right.

01:03:20 ◼   ► So you could I mean maybe I I don't know what the cost of

01:03:23 ◼   ► that is.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:24 ◼   ► And you know, but it's possible depending on the chips, because it comes down

01:03:27 ◼   ► to like what's getting power, what's doing data.

01:03:30 ◼   ► My understanding is that getting two USB Ports off of it itself was kind

01:03:33 ◼   ► of hard to engineer it that way off of a phone chip.

01:03:36 ◼   ► But then the new phone chips are more capable than that.

01:03:39 ◼   ► And then it's all about keeping the price envelope.

01:03:41 ◼   ► But like if MagSafe

01:03:45 ◼   ► plus two ports one on either side, was something they could do that wasn't

01:03:50 ◼   ► expensive.

01:03:50 ◼   ► Great.

01:03:51 ◼   ► But it may just be like it's a a nice again, I feel like

01:03:54 ◼   ► there's a line below webcam.

01:03:57 ◼   ► It I think you're right.

01:03:58 ◼   ► I think it's clearly the feature that makes the most sense to upgrade on

01:04:01 ◼   ► the whole computer.

01:04:03 ◼   ► Um

01:04:04 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense to put Thunderbolt on this thing, right?

01:04:07 ◼   ► Nope.

01:04:08 ◼   ► Totally irrelevant.

01:04:09 ◼   ► Uh totally irrelevant.

01:04:10 ◼   ► Two other things that I think the customer base would like, and it's just

01:04:13 ◼   ► about when they could do them.

01:04:14 ◼   ► One is a touch screen.

01:04:15 ◼   ► I think that people would like that.

01:04:17 ◼   ► But I think we're a long way away from that, right?

01:04:20 ◼   ► Like many, many, many.

01:04:21 ◼   ► But here's the next thing.

01:04:22 ◼   ► It'll be in every other laptop before.

01:04:24 ◼   ► What about a fifteen inch MacBook Neo?

01:04:29 ◼   ► Depends on uh kinda depends on how expensive the MacBook Air is.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:33 ◼   ► I feel like.

01:04:35 ◼   ► Like, sure, they could do it, but then, you know, what is that what

01:04:40 ◼   ► does that one cost?

01:04:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:41 ◼   ► And now you're getting close to MacBook Air.

01:04:44 ◼   ► And is that one of those things you hold down?

01:04:46 ◼   ► It's like, look, if you want a bigger screen, because the MacBook Air exists,

01:04:49 ◼   ► right?

01:04:50 ◼   ► That's the thing about the MacBook Neo is the MacBook Neo has to be

01:04:53 ◼   ► designed in some ways in opposition to the MacBook Air.

01:04:56 ◼   ► It's Everything you give up to get it cheaper.

01:05:00 ◼   ► And size is one of those.

01:05:01 ◼   ► So yes, maybe they could add any of these things, but I think it

01:05:04 ◼   ► comes down to that price calculation and also doing too much to be too

01:05:07 ◼   ► much like the MacBook Air.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Because it's not the MacBook Air.

01:05:10 ◼   ► We we we we start to put things in and it becomes the MacBook

01:05:13 ◼   ► Air and then it costs ten ninety nine.

01:05:15 ◼   ► So well I mean you have have to be limited there.

01:05:17 ◼   ► There's a lot of space between six ninety nine and twelve ninety nine.

01:05:21 ◼   ► There's space.

01:05:23 ◼   ► That's true.

01:05:25 ◼   ► Like, but I don't know.

01:05:26 ◼   ► I mean it this is one of those things of I don't know we

01:05:29 ◼   ► can never know.

01:05:29 ◼   ► How popular is the fifteen inch MacBook Air, right?

01:05:32 ◼   ► I think that's the question to answer whether this makes any of the things.

01:05:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:36 ◼   ► I never remember that the fifteen inch MacBook Air exists.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Like I never ever think about this computer.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Um But if you know it's just one of those things where it's I

01:05:45 ◼   ► I know that people like big screens.

01:05:47 ◼   ► That's obviously a bigger screen laptop.

01:05:48 ◼   ► If you live on your laptop, you never you're always on your laptop, use

01:05:53 ◼   ► it as your TV right?

01:05:54 ◼   ► Like which is what people are using this computer for, right?

01:05:57 ◼   ► Like this people that have the MacBook.

01:06:00 ◼   ► It is the screen in their life.

01:06:01 ◼   ► And I and I just wonder, right?

01:06:03 ◼   ► You gotta do some research, you gotta look at the MacBook Air numbers and

01:06:06 ◼   ► you gotta look at the expense of

01:06:12 ◼   ► While we're in this corner, let's just we've spoken about it before, but Mac

01:06:17 ◼   ► Neo, like a little Mac Mini Neo, does that do you think that makes

01:06:20 ◼   ► any sense to do?

01:06:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:23 ◼   ► Um

01:06:25 ◼   ► I used to say absolutely not.

01:06:30 ◼   ► Now what I would say is I don't think MacNeo makes sense.

01:06:33 ◼   ► I don't making another death I mean, n talk about a niche of a

01:06:36 ◼   ► niche.

01:06:37 ◼   ► A another desktop Mac.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Like the Mac Mini is not niche enough for you.

01:06:41 ◼   ► You want to have another one down there too.

01:06:43 ◼   ► However,

01:06:45 ◼   ► given the 50% increase in the price of the Mac Mini,

01:06:50 ◼   ► What I'm gonna say is,

01:06:52 ◼   ► what if the Mac Mini could start at $4.99 again?

01:06:58 ◼   ► But it had an A chip in it, and it was essentially it starts

01:07:02 ◼   ► as the Mac Neo, but it's it's the Mac mini, right?

01:07:06 ◼   ► But it starts with an A chip and then it goes to an M

01:07:08 ◼   ► chip and then it goes to an M pro chip and you have three

01:07:11 ◼   ► chip options.

01:07:12 ◼   ► And that allows you, could could they engineer it so that either of those

01:07:16 ◼   ► chips could go into the Mac mini, tiny Mac mini case.

01:07:19 ◼   ► And that would get their starting price, which you know matters to Apple, down

01:07:24 ◼   ► lower on a chip that's capable, maybe like the A twenty pro.

01:07:28 ◼   ► That doesn't seem out of bounds to me as a but that's how I

01:07:33 ◼   ► would do it.

01:07:33 ◼   ► That's how I would pitch it.

01:07:35 ◼   ► I don't see there being another Mac model.

01:07:37 ◼   ► No, this actually makes a lot more sense to me.

01:07:39 ◼   ► Could take it.

01:07:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:40 ◼   ► This makes a lot more sense to me.

01:07:42 ◼   ► The the starting price of the Mac Mini includes an A chip because it

01:07:45 ◼   ► doesn't matter, right?

01:07:47 ◼   ► Like which is right the story that the I think the the MacBook Neo

01:07:50 ◼   ► was shown.

01:07:51 ◼   ► It absolutely does not matter because a a base

01:07:54 ◼   ► of some products it it is absolutely enough powerful.

01:07:57 ◼   ► So I will ask one more.

01:07:58 ◼   ► I Mac, what about the iMac?

01:08:00 ◼   ► Put an put an A chip in the iMac?

01:08:03 ◼   ► Again, this this would be my question is

01:08:07 ◼   ► how is Apple feeling about A chip supply?

01:08:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:10 ◼   ► And how is Apple feeling about the prices of their computers right now?

01:08:13 ◼   ► Because the iMIP The iMac, just like the Mac Mini,

01:08:17 ◼   ► could probably have a cheaper version that's powered by the the A an A

01:08:22 ◼   ► chip.

01:08:22 ◼   ► They could probably do that.

01:08:24 ◼   ► And there's an argument to be made that like with the MacBook Air, you

01:08:29 ◼   ► You've got so much power in your base system at uh of this type,

01:08:33 ◼   ► and it really doesn't need to be that powerful

01:08:37 ◼   ► for a lot of people.

01:08:38 ◼   ► And you could save money and p you you could lower the price and

01:08:41 ◼   ► you could have a better starting price.

01:08:42 ◼   ► I don't know how aggressive they want to be about this, but if Apple

01:08:45 ◼   ► wanted to get aggressive and respond to the fact that all the prices have

01:08:48 ◼   ► gotten up, one way you could get aggressive is by taking the iMac and

01:08:52 ◼   ► starting it with an A chip inside for um for two, three, four hundred

01:08:56 ◼   ► dollars less.

01:08:56 ◼   ► Yep.

01:08:57 ◼   ► Um obviously it would have fewer ports and it would be it would be

01:09:00 ◼   ► a much l a lesser computer.

01:09:03 ◼   ► Um although you can do Thunderbolt on an A twenty pro, right?

01:09:07 ◼   ► Um you could.

01:09:08 ◼   ► And uh same with a Mac mini.

01:09:10 ◼   ► Um it it's just a matter of will.

01:09:13 ◼   ► Like

01:09:14 ◼   ► laptop is the most important category.

01:09:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:17 ◼   ► Everything after that is like you could.

01:09:20 ◼   ► Um do you want to spend the time and effort doing it, or do

01:09:23 ◼   ► you just want to focus on the Mac on the laptop?

01:09:25 ◼   ► Do you want to potentially eat into your Mac mini sales?

01:09:28 ◼   ► Because now people are just gonna buy the A twenty Mac Mini and you're

01:09:30 ◼   ► not gonna make as much money if you don't have the margins right.

01:09:33 ◼   ► Um, maybe, but like they could.

01:09:35 ◼   ► I I I think it's not unreasonable right now, especially given pricing, to look

01:09:40 ◼   ► at the iMac and the Mac Mini and say, you could make a cheaper

01:09:44 ◼   ► one driven by an A chip and uh there would not be riots, right?

01:09:48 ◼   ► Like it the Mac the the MacBook Neo is not a thing that u

01:09:52 ◼   ► appeals to most people who listen to the upgrade program for themselves because they

01:09:55 ◼   ► are computer focused people who want that power.

01:09:58 ◼   ► But like it's fine for most uses.

01:10:03 ◼   ► Um so you could totally use that same strategy on the iMac and the

01:10:08 ◼   ► Mac mini if you wanted to.

01:10:09 ◼   ► I don't know if they want to.

01:10:11 ◼   ► That that I don't know.

01:10:12 ◼   ► I don't I I I feel like the decision seems possible, but the actual

01:10:17 ◼   ► decision would be based on lots of data that only people inside Apple know

01:10:21 ◼   ► for sure.

01:10:22 ◼   ► And they would and it would have to be a will too.

01:10:24 ◼   ► It would be like, do we want to do this to the iMac and

01:10:27 ◼   ► the Mac mini?

01:10:28 ◼   ► Do we want to try this?

01:10:29 ◼   ► But if they feel real pressure, I th I think the reason I I'm

01:10:32 ◼   ► willing to entertain this is if they feel real pressure

01:10:36 ◼   ► on the pricing thing.

01:10:38 ◼   ► This would be a solution.

01:10:41 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Sentry.

01:10:44 ◼   ► Most AI tools help you write code, but SIA by Sentry is built for

01:10:48 ◼   ► when it breaks breaks.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Sia is Sentry's AI debugging agent and because it's built right into Sentry, it

01:10:54 ◼   ► has your full context.

01:10:55 ◼   ► All your errors, your traces, your logs and replays, and your code all in

01:11:00 ◼   ► one place.

01:11:01 ◼   ► So when something goes wrong, it finds the root cause and opens a pull

01:11:05 ◼   ► request before you even see the alert.

01:11:08 ◼   ► It also reviews your PRs against real production failures so bugs don't ship in

01:11:12 ◼   ► the first place.

01:11:13 ◼   ► Other AI tools guess, see a knows why your app is broken and how

01:11:18 ◼   ► powerful this is for developers.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Because when you get a bug report or you or you know something's going

01:11:24 ◼   ► wrong in your app, you want to get it fixed as quickly as possible

01:11:27 ◼   ► so you can get back to making the features you care about.

01:11:30 ◼   ► You're working on the things that are new and exciting for you.

01:11:33 ◼   ► So having Sia there for you with Sentry, it's absolutely got what it needs

01:11:38 ◼   ► to be able to indicate and help you fix the issues that are popping

01:11:43 ◼   ► up.

01:11:43 ◼   ► Because there's always gonna be issues, so why not have something on your side

01:11:46 ◼   ► that can help you take care of them?

01:11:48 ◼   ► Join millions of developers at companies like Anthropic and Disney Plus who use Sentry

01:11:53 ◼   ► to move faster.

01:11:54 ◼   ► Try it free at S E N T R Y dot IO and tell

01:11:57 ◼   ► them that we sent you.

01:11:58 ◼   ► They have a free dev plan and listeners of this show can use the

01:12:01 ◼   ► code UPGRADE26 to get $100 in Sentry credits if you're a new user.

01:12:06 ◼   ► That's S E N T R Y dot IO and the code UPGRED26.

01:12:10 ◼   ► A thanks to Sentry for their support of this show and all of Relay.

01:12:14 ◼   ► It is time for some ask upgrade questions.

01:12:20 ◼   ► Patrick says, I've always loved the size of the iPad mini, but I feel

01:12:24 ◼   ► that iPad OS is just not scaled correctly to the mini screen size and

01:12:28 ◼   ► resolution.

01:12:29 ◼   ► Now that Apple has actually put forth some effort into properly supporting an iOS

01:12:33 ◼   ► device of a similarly sized display with the iPhone Duo, do you think there's

01:12:37 ◼   ► any chance we could see a future version of the iPad Mini running the

01:12:41 ◼   ► version of iOS that we see on the inner displays of the iPhone Duo?

01:12:45 ◼   ► I could see arguments for or against, but I'm curious what you think of

01:12:49 ◼   ► this idea.

01:12:51 ◼   ► No.

01:12:54 ◼   ► And why?

01:12:55 ◼   ► Sorry, Patrick.

01:12:57 ◼   ► No.

01:12:57 ◼   ► No, because there's no reason to it.

01:12:59 ◼   ► The stuff that's happening on the duo on the inside is basically stuff because

01:13:03 ◼   ► it's folding display and it's an iPhone.

01:13:06 ◼   ► It's it's lesser.

01:13:08 ◼   ► The iPad mini doesn't need to be lesser.

01:13:10 ◼   ► The iPad mini is fine.

01:13:11 ◼   ► It's it does all the things that the iPad does, which is more than

01:13:15 ◼   ► you can do.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Like

01:13:17 ◼   ► I I could see an argument of like, well, what if you wanna make

01:13:20 ◼   ► a a simpler um side by side multitasking systems like I guess they could

01:13:25 ◼   ► do that, but like are they gonna rip out iPad OS for one iPad

01:13:29 ◼   ► and say, well this iPad doesn't run iPad OS?

01:13:31 ◼   ► Or are they gonna make some sort of like weird hybrid where like some

01:13:34 ◼   ► iPads also get some things that are on the duo.

01:13:37 ◼   ► I don't think it makes any sense.

01:13:38 ◼   ► So I d I don't I don't see any arguments for this.

01:13:41 ◼   ► I I actually just don't think it makes sense.

01:13:44 ◼   ► Uh sorry.

01:13:45 ◼   ► No, I don't disagree with you.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Because also you can kind of run an iPad in a dumb mode, right?

01:13:51 ◼   ► Like just single app or split view and they've kind of made that a

01:13:55 ◼   ► little bit better.

01:13:56 ◼   ► Like you're not gonna use stage manager or fully resizing windows very often on

01:14:00 ◼   ► an iPad mini 'cause it's just not the display for that.

01:14:02 ◼   ► So just don't do it, right?

01:14:04 ◼   ► Like like just use it in like side by side split view and you'll

01:14:09 ◼   ► be fine.

01:14:10 ◼   ► Um I see the point that Patrick is making but it it does It

01:14:14 ◼   ► doesn't make sense to take it just doesn't make any sense to det to

01:14:18 ◼   ► take an iPad and not have it run iPad OS.

01:14:20 ◼   ► I agree.

01:14:21 ◼   ► In the same way that the iPhone Duo doesn't run iPad OS either.

01:14:24 ◼   ► They just changed iPhone OS iOS to support this this style of interaction.

01:14:30 ◼   ► Right.

01:14:31 ◼   ► Like literally the only thing that argues for this is what if you could

01:14:39 ◼   ► make the side-by-side uh multitasking a little bit easier.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Which if they wanted to add that to to I mean they took it

01:14:48 ◼   ► out, but if they wanted to add something like that back to iPad OS,

01:14:51 ◼   ► that would be fine.

01:14:52 ◼   ► 'Cause 'cause the gestures for and the iPhone Duo that I've seen look really

01:14:56 ◼   ► good.

01:14:56 ◼   ► Like it just looks like it's done really well.

01:14:58 ◼   ► So maybe they bring some of that back into iPad OS to kind of

01:15:02 ◼   ► make that a better experience if you wanna if you wanna do that.

01:15:06 ◼   ► Uh Amar asks, with the iPhone Duo, do you think Apple should adopt a

01:15:10 ◼   ► strict approach to developer adoption.

01:15:12 ◼   ► For example, give developers until December twenty twenty six, and any update or new

01:15:18 ◼   ► app sent to the App Store after that must target twenty seven point one

01:15:22 ◼   ► with proper duo support.

01:15:28 ◼   ► No.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Okay.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Sorry.

01:15:30 ◼   ► Why?

01:15:31 ◼   ► Let me elaborate on my nose again.

01:15:34 ◼   ► Um Apple really wants the iPhone Duo to go well and holding a gun

01:15:40 ◼   ► to the head of developers

01:15:43 ◼   ► is um a bad idea.

01:15:46 ◼   ► They want apps they don't want the duo to launch and have apps not

01:15:49 ◼   ► run.

01:15:49 ◼   ► That's ridiculous.

01:15:50 ◼   ► They they can't do it.

01:15:51 ◼   ► They will use as much of the uh the carrot and the stick as

01:15:55 ◼   ► they can.

01:15:56 ◼   ► But um I I'll just remind you the iPhone ten had apps that didn't

01:16:00 ◼   ► launch right in it for months afterward.

01:16:03 ◼   ► And they they eventually it got there.

01:16:05 ◼   ► But like they do they will set this at some point.

01:16:08 ◼   ► I think Amar is just saying we do it s sooner than you would

01:16:11 ◼   ► normally.

01:16:11 ◼   ► Sure, but again, you know, you just

01:16:17 ◼   ► You can't I mean, first off, they didn't give developers anything until like mid

01:16:21 ◼   ► September on this mid to late September.

01:16:24 ◼   ► They need time.

01:16:25 ◼   ► There's a lot here.

01:16:27 ◼   ► I just don't I just don't see it.

01:16:28 ◼   ► I and I don't think they should do it.

01:16:30 ◼   ► No.

01:16:31 ◼   ► Their relationship with developers is tenuous enough already and they want the iPhone Duo

01:16:35 ◼   ► to be successful but they d also don't want to like I I just

01:16:39 ◼   ► I it seems incredibly counterproductive to me.

01:16:42 ◼   ► Yeah yeah I I do agree with you though.

01:16:44 ◼   ► Like I think at some point this will be enforced.

01:16:48 ◼   ► I don't think they need to make it much sooner than they would normally

01:16:51 ◼   ► have done that, right?

01:16:53 ◼   ► That like like at some point you will have to use 27.1 or a

01:16:57 ◼   ► version of Xcode to submit your applications, which means that it has to build

01:17:02 ◼   ► on the duo.

01:17:03 ◼   ► Whether it runs well or not is a different scenario.

01:17:06 ◼   ► Um, but I I think where Amara was coming from with this question is

01:17:11 ◼   ► looking at things like liquid glass and vision pro of like stuff that developers

01:17:18 ◼   ► have been dragged into supporting in some cases.

01:17:22 ◼   ► Where I feel like in you know looking in the same places like on

01:17:26 ◼   ► on on Mastodon or places like that, I feel like I'm seeing much more

01:17:30 ◼   ► excitement for iPhone Duo development than I saw for either Liquid Glass or Vision

01:17:35 ◼   ► OS.

01:17:35 ◼   ► Like I think people are encouraged and excited and interested to build for this.

01:17:40 ◼   ► So I think that they're gonna have less of a problem

01:17:44 ◼   ► Like it feels like this is a product that people are excited about more

01:17:48 ◼   ► than they feel like they are forced to deal with.

01:17:54 ◼   ► Also th there will come a time when Apple obviously will enforce um Mazoe

01:17:58 ◼   ► points out like in the spring, Apple will enforce iOS twenty seven regardless.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Maybe maybe point one, maybe just twenty seven, like this will happen.

01:18:07 ◼   ► But um right now is not that time and and

01:18:13 ◼   ► I just I I keep stumbling on the idea idea of like

01:18:18 ◼   ► Apple is Apple gonna get tougher on developers about dragging their feet to support

01:18:22 ◼   ► feet to support the duo?

01:18:24 ◼   ► And it's like a lack of duo support at launch is gonna be Apple's

01:18:27 ◼   ► fault, not developers' fault.

01:18:28 ◼   ► It's just it's Apple's fault.

01:18:30 ◼   ► A lack of duo support in apps all until the end of the year

01:18:34 ◼   ► will be Apple's fault.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Developers seem kind of interested, but it seems like it's gonna be a heavy

01:18:38 ◼   ► lift and they got a late start.

01:18:41 ◼   ► Yep.

01:18:42 ◼   ► So I I just I can't even imagine.

01:18:45 ◼   ► I I'll I'll put it this way.

01:18:46 ◼   ► If Apple did this, I would think it was outrageous because this is not

01:18:51 ◼   ► a developer adoption problem.

01:18:52 ◼   ► This is an Apple Failure.

01:18:55 ◼   ► I think that the launch of the duo will go less smoothly than it

01:19:02 ◼   ► could have if Apple had done more for developers in advance than they did.

01:19:06 ◼   ► Like shipping the SDK on day one of announcement instead of a couple weeks

01:19:11 ◼   ► later.

01:19:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:12 ◼   ► So it's all on Apple now.

01:19:14 ◼   ► And the time will come when Apple will say, okay, you need to do

01:19:16 ◼   ► 27 now.

01:19:17 ◼   ► But that's down the road.

01:19:20 ◼   ► Like Apple Apple's Gotta give developers some.

01:19:23 ◼   ► And I agree with you, Mike.

01:19:24 ◼   ► Um

01:19:25 ◼   ► the developers seem excited about it.

01:19:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:27 ◼   ► It's a new iPhone, but it's an iPhone, right?

01:19:29 ◼   ► There's gonna it's gonna be a fun thing for them to play with that's

01:19:33 ◼   ► a probably a phone that they're actually interested in, a lot of them developers.

01:19:36 ◼   ► And And that will sell even if it's a small fraction of overall iPhone

01:19:40 ◼   ► sales, it you know, it's gonna sell better than a Vision Pro or some

01:19:45 ◼   ► other of these other things that they might um more slowly adopt.

01:19:48 ◼   ► If you are an indie app developer, I think you have an opportunity

01:19:52 ◼   ► here that you don't tend to always have where there will be people buying

01:19:57 ◼   ► this phone and they will want apps that look cool or have fun experien

01:20:02 ◼   ► on that device.

01:20:03 ◼   ► And so there is an opportunity here.

01:20:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:07 ◼   ► And not they they'll want apps that will not be as uh somebody I

01:20:10 ◼   ► know who uh who will remain nameless referred to as the Shame Rectangle,

01:20:16 ◼   ► which is where you launch a non-duo savvy app on a duo and it

01:20:19 ◼   ► launches sort of in the center with space around it.

01:20:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:24 ◼   ► And you're like, oh, it's one of these apps.

01:20:27 ◼   ► Like developers don't want to be in the shame rectangle, right?

01:20:30 ◼   ► They don't.

01:20:31 ◼   ► No, they don't they d they don't.

01:20:32 ◼   ► So they're motivated.

01:20:33 ◼   ► They're motivated to at least and I think the challenge here is there's give

01:20:37 ◼   ► and take.

01:20:38 ◼   ► A lot of them are motivated to at least get it brought up in

01:20:40 ◼   ► a decent way and then to start to noodle on all the ways that

01:20:44 ◼   ► they can make it better.

01:20:45 ◼   ► Yep.

01:20:46 ◼   ► It's gonna take time, but I think they are motivated to do it.

01:20:48 ◼   ► And I do feel like I'm seeing a lot of people say the thing

01:20:51 ◼   ► that I feel like I see very often and it's funny you keep seeing

01:20:54 ◼   ► seeing it where people are like, Don't develop custom UI.

01:20:57 ◼   ► Just avoid custom UI in your apps as much as possible and you will

01:21:02 ◼   ► just have a better experience.

01:21:03 ◼   ► Now, of course some apps require it, which, you know, that because that's the

01:21:08 ◼   ► app that you're making.

01:21:09 ◼   ► But again, it's thinking that the more kind of standard controls that you can

01:21:13 ◼   ► use you will just have a better time as a developer.

01:21:17 ◼   ► Like it would your job will be easier and nicer if you're not trying

01:21:20 ◼   ► to hack things too much.

01:21:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:23 ◼   ► Eric Reitziner says, I've been hearing people accept that the iPhone Duo is just

01:21:28 ◼   ► too thin for face ID, which is why it doesn't have it.

01:21:30 ◼   ► But the iPad Pro is thinner and manages to have face ID and true

01:21:34 ◼   ► depth systems without any issue.

01:21:36 ◼   ► I understand that there's more area to work with in an iPad but I

01:21:39 ◼   ► feel like this means the thinness isn't limiting factor.

01:21:42 ◼   ► And if Apple could if if Apple had the will, they could get face

01:21:45 ◼   ► ID on the iPhone too well, so why don't they?

01:21:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:49 ◼   ► I mean Eric, you're right.

01:21:53 ◼   ► You're right in a technical and pedantic way, which is the best way of

01:21:57 ◼   ► being right, which is it's not about the thin.

01:22:00 ◼   ► It's about

01:22:02 ◼   ► space.

01:22:03 ◼   ► I think space is the problem.

01:22:04 ◼   ► It's

01:22:05 ◼   ► because because the thinness well the thinness requires, yeah, you could do it.

01:22:10 ◼   ► You can do it.

01:22:11 ◼   ► But the device is so thin that whatever you do there, that's all that's

01:22:15 ◼   ► there, right?

01:22:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:16 ◼   ► And that means some other thing has to be somewhere else.

01:22:19 ◼   ► And they're like, they're trying to get battery in there they're trying to get

01:22:22 ◼   ► processing in there, they've got issues with the screen.

01:22:25 ◼   ► They've got two screens with different orientations, right?

01:22:31 ◼   ► So do you need to do two-phase IDs?

01:22:35 ◼   ► And if that's true, now you've got to take more space in this very

01:22:38 ◼   ► small item.

01:22:39 ◼   ► So you're right, it's not the thinness, it's what can they pack in this

01:22:43 ◼   ► thing and what does it cost, right?

01:22:45 ◼   ► Because we know that the face ID stuff does cost.

01:22:48 ◼   ► It is more expensive.

01:22:49 ◼   ► There are a bunch of sensors.

01:22:51 ◼   ► The standard face ID, it's blasting out little IR dots that it has to

01:22:55 ◼   ► read.

01:22:55 ◼   ► Like there's a lot of there's like so there's the projector and the camera.

01:22:58 ◼   ► There's all this stuff going on there.

01:23:00 ◼   ► So they can get it in there, but it costs and they gotta fit

01:23:04 ◼   ► it in, which means there's gonna be a trade off with something else.

01:23:07 ◼   ► So and they might have to do it times two because they may want

01:23:10 ◼   ► if you're gonna do it, you may need to have it facing out on

01:23:13 ◼   ► the small screen and also facing out on the big screen when it's unfolded

01:23:16 ◼   ► and like now you now you've got two, unless they can come up with

01:23:19 ◼   ► some clever kind of like reverso face ID system where it looks one way

01:23:24 ◼   ► and then it looks the other way.

01:23:25 ◼   ► And oh but so I understand why they didn't do it.

01:23:30 ◼   ► Um I do wonder, this is a Mike conspiracy theory thing.

01:23:35 ◼   ► I do wonder if

01:23:38 ◼   ► with the we know that because of the the underscreen stuff that they're doing

01:23:41 ◼   ► with the face ID on the 18 Pro.

01:23:45 ◼   ► And we we now know that that they've changed the algorithm a little bit

01:23:49 ◼   ► and they use some other facial recognition in addition because it's it's uh a

01:23:54 ◼   ► little less effective when it's under the screen.

01:23:57 ◼   ► So it feels to me like maybe they are progressing in ways to do

01:24:01 ◼   ► face ID differently, that may be a different combination of sensors that still gives

01:24:06 ◼   ► them the acceptable security that they want.

01:24:09 ◼   ► And if that's true, maybe the answer is they're also engineering this for not

01:24:13 ◼   ► just those iPhones, but for the duo so that they can get to a

01:24:16 ◼   ► point where if they've got an outward facing camera and maybe a sensor that

01:24:21 ◼   ► they can put somewhere that's cheaper, they can do something that they consider good

01:24:25 ◼   ► enough for face ID.

01:24:27 ◼   ► But um but again, these like imagine like a big whiteboard or a big

01:24:34 ◼   ► spreadsheet with all the components and the volume.

01:24:37 ◼   ► And it's like Apollo 13, right?

01:24:38 ◼   ► Where they're like, well, if you flip this switch, the power goes off.

01:24:41 ◼   ► So you need to turn this off and then turn this on.

01:24:44 ◼   ► And then can we turn this on?

01:24:45 ◼   ► No, then the there's too much power then.

01:24:47 ◼   ► So then you need to turn this on and then this off.

01:24:49 ◼   ► And then you can turn that on.

01:24:51 ◼   ► That's what they do when they're designing something especially like the duo, where they

01:24:54 ◼   ► have limited volume, uh, they have a price tag that they're trying to that

01:24:58 ◼   ► that they're trying to not go over so that they get their margins.

01:25:01 ◼   ► Like it's complicated.

01:25:02 ◼   ► So but but Eric is right.

01:25:03 ◼   ► It's not the thinness, it's all of the rest of it yeah that makes

01:25:08 ◼   ► this including and I want to say this again two screens either of which

01:25:13 ◼   ► could be fa pointed at your face so maybe you have to do two

01:25:17 ◼   ► like and that's like it no now we've doubled the problem here.

01:25:20 ◼   ► So I think they could do it.

01:25:22 ◼   ► I think they could do it.

01:25:23 ◼   ► I think they want to do it.

01:25:25 ◼   ► But and you know, so I I guess we'll see.

01:25:28 ◼   ► But I'm sure they're working on it.

01:25:30 ◼   ► I'm sure it I'm sure they d are not happy that it uses touch

01:25:34 ◼   ► ID.

01:25:34 ◼   ► I think that was just a a a thing they realized they had to

01:25:37 ◼   ► do.

01:25:37 ◼   ► They had no choice.

01:25:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I I will also just say again, um, so far still the face

01:25:43 ◼   ► ID in the eighteen pro is not as good as the seventeen pro.

01:25:47 ◼   ► I am putting my passcode in more and more than I have before.

01:25:51 ◼   ► Um it's it's interesting.

01:25:52 ◼   ► I'm sure it's gonna get better.

01:25:53 ◼   ► I do feel confident in that, but it's absolutely noticeable that I am face

01:25:59 ◼   ► ID is failing for me more than it did before.

01:26:02 ◼   ► Which is a shame.

01:26:03 ◼   ► So the infrared camera for people who know the the infrared there is a

01:26:06 ◼   ► camera on the iPhone eighteen Pro that is under the screen.

01:26:10 ◼   ► It's not you know, there is an underscreen camera there.

01:26:13 ◼   ► Um, it's not just the duo.

01:26:15 ◼   ► The underscreen camera is an IR camera used for face ID, but that and

01:26:19 ◼   ► they they've had to spread the pixels out a little bit.

01:26:21 ◼   ► There's a little area where if you look real close you can see that

01:26:23 ◼   ► the Pixels are a little bit spread out, um, not as dense, and it's

01:26:28 ◼   ► not as effective.

01:26:29 ◼   ► So they also use the camera, but that means it's new algorithm and you

01:26:32 ◼   ► know you're seeing maybe the results of that.

01:26:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:35 ◼   ► Which yes, I imagine they will tighten that up.

01:26:38 ◼   ► And but like that shows you that they're on the case because I think

01:26:42 ◼   ► they realize like face ID is great and all, but it requires so much

01:26:46 ◼   ► hardware.

01:26:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:48 ◼   ► And maybe they need to find another approach so that they can have a

01:26:53 ◼   ► uh a cutoff iPhone and a or or reduce in the case of the

01:26:58 ◼   ► eighteen, reduce the size of the dynamic island and maybe it's like a future

01:27:03 ◼   ► um uh iPhone duo as well.

01:27:06 ◼   ► Last question in our iPhone duo ask upgrade today.

01:27:09 ◼   ► And we have more.

01:27:10 ◼   ► We're getting so many questions about it, which is great.

01:27:12 ◼   ► Everyone so excited about it.

01:27:13 ◼   ► I can't.

01:27:13 ◼   ► Uh Aiden says, I've always been a believer that version two will will be

01:27:17 ◼   ► better than the first version of something.

01:27:19 ◼   ► And that's how me and my partner are approaching the duo.

01:27:22 ◼   ► However, having seen no air two, I'm slightly nervous about this approach.

01:27:26 ◼   ► I appreciate the air was a bit of proof of concept, but do you

01:27:29 ◼   ► think it's a duo two next year?

01:27:32 ◼   ► And good news, Aiden.

01:27:34 ◼   ► Mark German says the duo the the air two is coming in the spring,

01:27:37 ◼   ► and I would imagine we'll get a duo two next fall as well.

01:27:40 ◼   ► I I don't think they're l gonna let that one go.

01:27:43 ◼   ► I don't think we'll get an air three, maybe.

01:27:46 ◼   ► Um, but I feel confident that there will be a duo three.

01:27:50 ◼   ► Like I think that this is just a thing now.

01:27:53 ◼   ► At this point, yeah.

01:27:54 ◼   ► I I I think I think that's probably right.

01:27:56 ◼   ► And I do think there'll probably be a duo two next fall.

01:27:59 ◼   ► Um just because they're they're putting like yeah, they're putting their whole operation behind

01:28:06 ◼   ► this thing.

01:28:06 ◼   ► And I think with some good reason.

01:28:09 ◼   ► Um so so yeah, I think we'll get the air two.

01:28:12 ◼   ► They just moved it just like the eighteen to the spring they moved it

01:28:16 ◼   ► without telling anybody, but I think that's happening.

01:28:18 ◼   ► And then the duo two in the fall, I think, will happen alongside whatever

01:28:22 ◼   ► iPhone 19 Pro, iPhone 20.

01:28:27 ◼   ► Who knows?

01:28:27 ◼   ► iPhone Ultra?

01:28:28 ◼   ► Uh who knows about that but I I I would put um I I'm

01:28:34 ◼   ► not a betting person, so I would not put money down um or invest

01:28:38 ◼   ► in a prediction market.

01:28:40 ◼   ► Uh anyway, I think it'll happen.

01:28:42 ◼   ► I I I have I have very little doubt that there will be a

01:28:44 ◼   ► duo two next fall.

01:28:46 ◼   ► If you'd like to send in a question for us to answer on a

01:28:49 ◼   ► future episode, uh just go to upgradefeedback.com and you can send in your ask

01:28:53 ◼   ► upgrade question.

01:28:54 ◼   ► You can also send us in your follow-up or any feedback that you might

01:28:59 ◼   ► have there as well.

01:29:00 ◼   ► Uh on Design in California this week, uh, our episode features the final demos

01:29:05 ◼   ► and pitches that both B and Next give to a special team that Apple

01:29:10 ◼   ► assembles to help them make their final decision of which operating system will be

01:29:16 ◼   ► the future of the Mac.

01:29:17 ◼   ► This is a great episode.

01:29:19 ◼   ► It's real Shark Tank situation happening, real shark tank.

01:29:23 ◼   ► Uh we'll tell you who the sharks are.

01:29:26 ◼   ► I think this is my favorite episode of the series.

01:29:30 ◼   ► I think was this one.

01:29:31 ◼   ► It's really, really good.

01:29:32 ◼   ► And it's a very important, like lifelong business lessons to be uh some learnings

01:29:37 ◼   ► as they say to be taken away.

01:29:39 ◼   ► Good learnings about always being at your best.

01:29:42 ◼   ► Yep.

01:29:43 ◼   ► Uh and what happens when you're not.

01:29:45 ◼   ► Uh I wanna thank our members who support this show with Upgrade Plus.

01:29:48 ◼   ► You can go to getupgradeplus.com and get longer ad-free versions of this show each

01:29:53 ◼   ► and every week.

01:29:53 ◼   ► If you want to find a video version of the show, just go to

01:29:56 ◼   ► YouTube and look for the upgrade podcast.

01:29:58 ◼   ► I want to thank our sponsors again.

01:30:00 ◼   ► That is the fine folk over at Fitbod, Keeper, and Sentry for helping support

01:30:04 ◼   ► this episode.

01:30:05 ◼   ► But as always, I want to thank you for listening.

01:30:07 ◼   ► Don't forget saintjude.org slash relay to make your donations.

01:30:10 ◼   ► And don't forday from twelve p.m.

01:30:15 ◼   ► to twelve AM US Eastern time.

01:30:17 ◼   ► We'll be hanging out on the uh relay for Saint Jude Podcast of Thorn

01:30:21 ◼   ► for twenty twenty six.

01:30:22 ◼   ► Until then and until next time when we will hopefully be recording this episode

01:30:28 ◼   ► in person.

01:30:29 ◼   ► Should hopefully should be next week's episode.

01:30:31 ◼   ► Fingers crossed.

01:30:32 ◼   ► Should be.

01:30:33 ◼   ► Knock on wood.

01:30:33 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:30:34 ◼   ► Uh until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell.

01:30:36 ◼   ► See you tomorrow, Mike.