The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Andrew, welcome back to the talk show.

00:00:02 ◼   ► I think you were here a year ago.

00:00:03 ◼   ► I think before the Apple event Was it was it that long ago?

00:00:06 ◼   ► I think so.

00:00:07 ◼   ► But now I've had you here after an Apple event.

00:00:09 ◼   ► But you're fresh off an airplane and I have to tell you of amongst

00:00:13 ◼   ► numerous things that I've written in the last month, the one that has gotten

00:00:17 ◼   ► the most among the most reader feedback was a footnote where I pointed out

00:00:24 ◼   ► about I is it just me or is there this trend trend where no

00:00:28 ◼   ► matter what time of day you fly, everybody keeps the windows all the way

00:00:31 ◼   ► shut and it's you're I read that.

00:00:35 ◼   ► And you're flying in the dark and I kinda I get it early in

00:00:39 ◼   ► the morning.

00:00:39 ◼   ► I totally get it.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I do it.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I fight a window.

00:00:41 ◼   ► But in the middle of the day, I want the sunlight.

00:00:44 ◼   ► I don't.

00:00:44 ◼   ► I it throws me off being in a a dark aluminum tube at the

00:00:49 ◼   ► i it's hard enough to adjust the time zones.

00:00:52 ◼   ► But like when it's twelve noon and you're taken off from the East Coast,

00:00:56 ◼   ► it should not be dark.

00:00:57 ◼   ► Are you what are your thoughts on this?

00:00:59 ◼   ► I'm hit by feedback.

00:01:00 ◼   ► You might not like this, but I think you have a decision you have

00:01:03 ◼   ► a decision to make, okay?

00:01:04 ◼   ► You can be an aisle guy or you can be the window guy in

00:01:07 ◼   ► charge of the window We all know window seat gets the window, aisle guy

00:01:11 ◼   ► has the easy access, and the middle seat gets both armrests.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Right?

00:01:15 ◼   ► So if you are gonna be an aisle guy, you just have to put

00:01:18 ◼   ► up with whatever the window person's up to.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Me personally, I kind of I like the window because I no matter how

00:01:26 ◼   ► long my flight is, unless it's international, I'm moving.

00:01:28 ◼   ► I'm not going to the restroom.

00:01:29 ◼   ► I'm not moving.

00:01:30 ◼   ► I just I'm just locking in and I'm gonna take my laptop out, maybe

00:01:33 ◼   ► my vision Pro, I'm gonna do some work.

00:01:35 ◼   ► So basically I use the window as needed for what I'm trying to do

00:01:39 ◼   ► for work.

00:01:40 ◼   ► So if my laptop doesn't need a window and it's better while I'm to

00:01:43 ◼   ► close that down, I'm closing it.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Yep.

00:01:45 ◼   ► So what I don't like though, hopefully you're not one of these guys.

00:01:49 ◼   ► Are you one of the guys that the people that reach over from the

00:01:53 ◼   ► middle or the try to activate the window?

00:01:56 ◼   ► I had one of those a couple of weeks ago.

00:01:58 ◼   ► I wasn't shocked No.

00:02:00 ◼   ► No.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Sometimes you take what you can get if you book last minute, but the

00:02:03 ◼   ► even so you get what you get.

00:02:04 ◼   ► You get your real estate and the window seat gets the window.

00:02:07 ◼   ► No, that's ridiculous.

00:02:09 ◼   ► That's as bad as if they reached over and like took food off your

00:02:11 ◼   ► tray or

00:02:13 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:02:14 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:02:16 ◼   ► Took the drink off your off your tray and were like, You're not drinking

00:02:19 ◼   ► this, are you?

00:02:20 ◼   ► I mean that's a little presumptuous.

00:02:21 ◼   ► No, and I th I know it's like a weird cultural change though.

00:02:24 ◼   ► I feel like everybody and again I'm not a d a doomer about screens

00:02:29 ◼   ► and everybody's addicted to screens and everybody's down about how much time they spend

00:02:33 ◼   ► on devices.

00:02:34 ◼   ► I get it.

00:02:34 ◼   ► I know and I think about it too and I'm trying to be m

00:02:37 ◼   ► mindful about it and trying to adapt and not get into habits about it

00:02:43 ◼   ► or break some habits about it.

00:02:45 ◼   ► But I do think it's definitely a reflection of that.

00:02:48 ◼   ► It absolutely is.

00:02:49 ◼   ► And that people are not amazed by being thirty eight thousand feet in the

00:02:54 ◼   ► air and getting to see this magnificent earth.

00:02:58 ◼   ► I mean you really do.

00:02:59 ◼   ► I'm an aisle guy, but I've next choice is a window.

00:03:02 ◼   ► I've sat in a window.

00:03:03 ◼   ► And there's always some point on a long flight where you just look out

00:03:06 ◼   ► the window and you're like wow, look at that.

00:03:09 ◼   ► And nobody is amazed by that.

00:03:10 ◼   ► What they are amazed by is the dumbass movie they're watching on their laptop.

00:03:16 ◼   ► And when you're watching a movie, you don't want the window open, you want

00:03:20 ◼   ► you don't want the reflections.

00:03:22 ◼   ► And so you need that contrast.

00:03:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:25 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:03:26 ◼   ► But it is I got so much email about it, mostly from people who

00:03:29 ◼   ► are like, Yeah, I'm annoyed by this, but but nobody everybody sees there's nothing

00:03:34 ◼   ► to be done about it.

00:03:35 ◼   ► So most people are were in agreement with you.

00:03:37 ◼   ► And I remember from years ago when it was a lot rarer to have

00:03:43 ◼   ► a laptop on a flight, right?

00:03:45 ◼   ► And I remember like when I first started flying with a laptop twenty twenty

00:03:49 ◼   ► some years ago, it's y you had to I don't know, like a a

00:03:54 ◼   ► power book of the time would get like two point five hours of battery

00:03:57 ◼   ► life.

00:03:58 ◼   ► So if you're on a five hour flight, you could board, you could read

00:04:02 ◼   ► for a bit, you could wait for the food cart to come down the

00:04:06 ◼   ► aisle, and then take your laptop out and hurry up and do some work,

00:04:10 ◼   ► and then your laptop would be dead by the time you got to like

00:04:14 ◼   ► the Rocky Mountains and then you'd put it away and read for the rest

00:04:18 ◼   ► of the flight and you know, you didn't have to worry about it.

00:04:21 ◼   ► 'Cause you didn't have you didn't like a power or a laptop back then.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Oh yeah, you definitely didn't you didn't have outlets, you didn't have anything.

00:04:28 ◼   ► And it just seemed at the time, sure, I'll close my window because I

00:04:32 ◼   ► don't want the glare on my screen.

00:04:34 ◼   ► But it doesn't me closing my window isn't gonna make the whole cabin dark

00:04:38 ◼   ► because most other people aren't doing that.

00:04:40 ◼   ► And now everybody's in the same boat and everybody with a window seat is

00:04:44 ◼   ► thinking, Well I'm gonna close the window.

00:04:45 ◼   ► And the other thing that I think has happened is that there's a certain

00:04:49 ◼   ► tipping point culturally where even people who aren't acting out of their own self

00:04:54 ◼   ► interest become because they don't want the glare on their screen and their window

00:04:58 ◼   ► seat.

00:04:58 ◼   ► And they kind of get the vibe like, uh-huh, everybody has their windows closed.

00:05:02 ◼   ► I guess I'm supposed to keep mine closed too, right?

00:05:05 ◼   ► There's like a tipping point where it used to be the default was, well,

00:05:09 ◼   ► of course you want this open because you have a window seat.

00:05:11 ◼   ► You wanna look out the window as you're f amazingly thirty some thousand feet

00:05:15 ◼   ► up in the air.

00:05:16 ◼   ► And now it's like the cultural norm, just the vibe in the cabin is,

00:05:21 ◼   ► huh, seems like everybody has a closer is keeping it closed.

00:05:23 ◼   ► I better keep mine closed too.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Even if I want to look high.

00:05:26 ◼   ► 'Cause I often the other thing too, I've seen this is I've seen people

00:05:29 ◼   ► next to me and it they go to open it and I think, Ah,

00:05:32 ◼   ► that's good.

00:05:32 ◼   ► I'm glad he's opening that window or she or whoever and they open it

00:05:35 ◼   ► and they take a peek and then they close it.

00:05:39 ◼   ► I have seen that.

00:05:40 ◼   ► I have done that myself.

00:05:42 ◼   ► But yep.

00:05:42 ◼   ► So I travel a lot.

00:05:43 ◼   ► I just got off but you mentioned I got off a plane today.

00:05:45 ◼   ► I just got off my my forty-sixth flight of twenty twenty-six so far.

00:05:50 ◼   ► And what I have noticed though over the past like two years, or maybe

00:05:55 ◼   ► even post COVID, when we get on the plane, all the windows are already

00:05:59 ◼   ► closed.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like before all the windows used to be open.

00:06:04 ◼   ► So I'm also wondering if it's like people get on a plane and they're

00:06:08 ◼   ► just oh it's supposed to be like this.

00:06:09 ◼   ► It's supposed to be like it's supposed to be all closed.

00:06:12 ◼   ► And if you got on a plane and all the windows were open, would

00:06:15 ◼   ► people close them or just leave them alone?

00:06:17 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a thing I've noticed too and it's something I've gone to Disney

00:06:20 ◼   ► World a lot and I've actually was just in Vegas a couple of weeks

00:06:23 ◼   ► ago and it's like there are certain like Vegas is in August is like

00:06:27 ◼   ► this where i they want it closed because it they want to keep the

00:06:30 ◼   ► cabin as cool as possible in the desert sun.

00:06:33 ◼   ► But now it doesn't really matter where you are or what time of year,

00:06:36 ◼   ► it seems like you board the plane and the windows are closed by default.

00:06:38 ◼   ► And I just shut down.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:40 ◼   ► And uh anyway.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Forty six flights.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Man, oh man, I would that would That's something.

00:06:46 ◼   ► I know, and we still got more to come.

00:06:47 ◼   ► It's about to ramp up.

00:06:49 ◼   ► It is it's been a just a busy couple of days.

00:06:52 ◼   ► We we saw each other at the Apple event, which is I guess two

00:06:55 ◼   ► weeks ago now.

00:06:56 ◼   ► And it was funny, and I told you when I asked you to be

00:06:59 ◼   ► on the show that I've been thinking about it ever since is uh and

00:07:02 ◼   ► let's so let's just talk about it.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Let's talk about that Apple event.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, let's do it.

00:07:06 ◼   ► Um it was I saw you in I actually saw you in Steve Jobs

00:07:10 ◼   ► theater too.

00:07:10 ◼   ► I think I was moving down the the aisle trying to get a seat.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Yep.

00:07:14 ◼   ► But then I ran into you.

00:07:16 ◼   ► They did a weird or they they mix it up every year, but they

00:07:18 ◼   ► had like a a br what they call it?

00:07:21 ◼   ► Briefings and something else content.

00:07:24 ◼   ► A whole different build.

00:07:25 ◼   ► I mean it's a build yeah, content center.

00:07:27 ◼   ► It's content it's a building apparently that they use.

00:07:30 ◼   ► This is an Apple building in the area about twenty minutes from Apple Park.

00:07:34 ◼   ► And they said twenty minutes.

00:07:36 ◼   ► They said right, they said twenty minutes.

00:07:38 ◼   ► See I will be a I'll be a whiny baby on the podcast in

00:07:42 ◼   ► a way that I wouldn't in my writing.

00:07:45 ◼   ► But they said it was about twenty minutes away.

00:07:47 ◼   ► I the couple of times I took the shuttle, it was I don't know,

00:07:51 ◼   ► thirty thirty plus minutes.

00:07:53 ◼   ► Closer closer to I was looking and they were like, Don't please don't share

00:07:57 ◼   ► the location, which is fine.

00:07:58 ◼   ► You agree to this stuff.

00:07:59 ◼   ► It's it's not a secret, but they don't want you to tell people the

00:08:04 ◼   ► exact address.

00:08:05 ◼   ► But I mean you can look on your Yeah.

00:08:08 ◼   ► You can look on your phone and see where you are.

00:08:10 ◼   ► And we were almost all the way to Menlo Park, and I'm not super

00:08:15 ◼   ► familiar with every single area in the valley, but i it it that's not

00:08:21 ◼   ► close to Cupertino.

00:08:23 ◼   ► No, it's not.

00:08:24 ◼   ► It's not.

00:08:25 ◼   ► It was strange 'cause like you said, they didn't wanna they didn't want to

00:08:27 ◼   ► tell you the exact address.

00:08:29 ◼   ► And when I was so I left there and I wanted to come back

00:08:35 ◼   ► And where I was much closer to that than going back to Apple Park

00:08:40 ◼   ► and they were like, Oh no, we can't tell you the address, you have

00:08:42 ◼   ► to go all the way back to Apple Park and take a shutter.

00:08:44 ◼   ► I'm like a two minute Uber away.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Nope, you gotta go all the I gotta go thirty minutes there and thirty

00:08:49 ◼   ► minutes back and orders.

00:08:50 ◼   ► I was like, this is this only Apple would do this.

00:08:52 ◼   ► This is insane.

00:08:52 ◼   ► That's like a video.

00:08:53 ◼   ► I had one right.

00:08:54 ◼   ► It's like the level it's like the level got reset and it's like yeah,

00:08:57 ◼   ► I know where I was, I was so close to the end of the

00:08:58 ◼   ► level and they're like the level over.

00:09:00 ◼   ► You gotta go all the way back to the basers.

00:09:03 ◼   ► And it's like ah, god damn it, this part I already beat this part.

00:09:06 ◼   ► I know.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Terrible.

00:09:07 ◼   ► One thing I noticed about you, by the way, at a c at the

00:09:10 ◼   ► last few Apple events that I've observed and seen you, you don't take the

00:09:14 ◼   ► same strategy that us video people do, which is we try to sit as

00:09:19 ◼   ► far back as possible in Steve Jobs theater so that when it ends, we

00:09:24 ◼   ► can just get up and turn around and get right to the devices.

00:09:28 ◼   ► And you seem to

00:09:30 ◼   ► almost be more Into taking in the whole scene as opposed to let me

00:09:37 ◼   ► get to the devices and check them out right away.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Yeah that's that accurate?

00:09:41 ◼   ► Yeah, no, that's very true.

00:09:43 ◼   ► This time I sat in the front row center.

00:09:47 ◼   ► I I should pull I didn't publ I don't know where to publish the

00:09:49 ◼   ► photos, but I I have some good photos.

00:09:51 ◼   ► I was right above the main camera.

00:09:54 ◼   ► It's sorta like there's theater seating where they put all the media people and

00:09:59 ◼   ► then there's sort of a halfway through you know this, I'm trying to describe

00:10:03 ◼   ► it for the audience.

00:10:04 ◼   ► About halfway into the theater, there's like a fifty yard line and the seating

00:10:09 ◼   ► in front of that is different and better.

00:10:12 ◼   ► It's and it's closer to the stage.

00:10:14 ◼   ► But in between the two seating areas is sort of a well where there's

00:10:19 ◼   ► this whole A V professional rig with big cameras and all sorts of audio

00:10:25 ◼   ► stuff and probably the lighting controls.

00:10:27 ◼   ► I was right above them.

00:10:29 ◼   ► It's and it's sort of the seating is raised.

00:10:32 ◼   ► The part where us in the media get in the back sort of goes

00:10:36 ◼   ► up and that front part is more flat.

00:10:39 ◼   ► And that's And uh so I just went all the way down until an

00:10:42 ◼   ► usher said that with my color badge for the media I couldn't go anymore.

00:10:46 ◼   ► And I looked over to the side and there was still there was a

00:10:49 ◼   ► seat right in the middle and I sat there.

00:10:50 ◼   ► I was actually right in front of Austin Mann, the photographer, and he I

00:10:54 ◼   ► think he was jealous 'cause he wanted to s sit one real closer.

00:10:58 ◼   ► But he likes to sit in the middle too.

00:11:00 ◼   ► Who else was I next to?

00:11:01 ◼   ► Chance Miller, who was just uh on the talk show last month from nine

00:11:05 ◼   ► to five Mac, a few other people But yeah, that's my strategy.

00:11:08 ◼   ► And I I and I do I think you and I were talking to

00:11:12 ◼   ► some people on Threads who had just been invited for the first time.

00:11:17 ◼   ► And that's one of my little tidbits of advice.

00:11:20 ◼   ► Not like tons of people ask me for advice on how to attend these

00:11:23 ◼   ► things.

00:11:23 ◼   ► But one of my things to if you've never been there is to consider

00:11:28 ◼   ► that.

00:11:28 ◼   ► That if you might rush in when they open the theater and want to

00:11:32 ◼   ► get as close as possible, which is sort of what I do now.

00:11:35 ◼   ► But it it's considered.

00:11:37 ◼   ► But then you have to realize that when the keynote is over, it will

00:11:40 ◼   ► be several minutes before you get out of the theater.

00:11:42 ◼   ► And in the meantime, the hands on area will be filled up.

00:11:46 ◼   ► It's filling up quickly.

00:11:48 ◼   ► Yes.

00:11:48 ◼   ► And if what you want to do is capture capture B roll footage or

00:11:51 ◼   ► just get some hands on time as much as possible, you want to sit

00:11:55 ◼   ► in the back.

00:11:58 ◼   ► That's always my strategy.

00:11:59 ◼   ► Or back as possible.

00:12:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:01 ◼   ► That's where you were seated.

00:12:03 ◼   ► At the aisle too.

00:12:04 ◼   ► You had an aisle seat.

00:12:05 ◼   ► That's right.

00:12:06 ◼   ► That's right.

00:12:06 ◼   ► I was right there.

00:12:07 ◼   ► I was ready to go.

00:12:07 ◼   ► I'm giving up your secrets.

00:12:11 ◼   ► No, it's definitely true.

00:12:13 ◼   ► What do you w there was a discussion this is t before we talk

00:12:16 ◼   ► about the event itself.

00:12:17 ◼   ► It was sort of a meta discussion.

00:12:18 ◼   ► Mark German had tweeted and German does not get invited to Apple events for

00:12:24 ◼   ► being

00:12:27 ◼   ► Well nobody explains it's Apple, so they don't but one can surmise the reasons.

00:12:33 ◼   ► But Gurman tweeted, Apple's new focus on influencers for events and product quote reviews,

00:12:40 ◼   ► sort of dick quotes around reviews People who say nothing but positive things and

00:12:45 ◼   ► never ask a legitimate question of Apple executives in exchange for free devices, travel

00:12:51 ◼   ► and more is a serious issue.

00:12:52 ◼   ► This echo chamber will lead to mediocrity.

00:12:55 ◼   ► I I I've t actually talked to Mark privately about that.

00:12:59 ◼   ► Surprising to some.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Mark and I get along in person pretty well.

00:13:02 ◼   ► I know what he's getting at there.

00:13:05 ◼   ► The list of people who were invited to Apple events is always it's always

00:13:11 ◼   ► been evolving, right?

00:13:12 ◼   ► And the media is always evolving.

00:13:15 ◼   ► But it's it's uh there is a different crowd that uh it not YouTubers,

00:13:22 ◼   ► it is video is just is now no longer new.

00:13:27 ◼   ► I mean the one of the funniest things I saw in all of the

00:13:30 ◼   ► post keynote thing was I'm already forgetting his name.

00:13:33 ◼   ► Who's the flips in front of Turnus?

00:13:35 ◼   ► I show speed.

00:13:36 ◼   ► I show speed.

00:13:37 ◼   ► So I show speed is an influencer.

00:13:40 ◼   ► And he's this perfect type of guy who I'm talking about.

00:13:43 ◼   ► He's twenty-one years old.

00:13:44 ◼   ► He's got uh I don't know, twenty zillion followers on YouTube and social media,

00:13:50 ◼   ► and he does a lot of live streaming and he posted a video where

00:13:54 ◼   ► he went up to Marquez Brownley to and I guess they'd never met before

00:14:00 ◼   ► and was telling Marquez, Hey man I grew up watching your videos.

00:14:05 ◼   ► I and I'm like, Oh, this is great.

00:14:08 ◼   ► Marquez is getting what I've gotten years ago.

00:14:11 ◼   ► They're grew up peace.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Yes.

00:14:15 ◼   ► Which was also funny.

00:14:17 ◼   ► But the idea that Marquez Brownley is now the veteran who newcomers to Apple

00:14:23 ◼   ► Keynotes are coming up to and saying, Oh, I grew up enjoying your coverage

00:14:28 ◼   ► of these things.

00:14:29 ◼   ► Oh, I loved watching that.

00:14:31 ◼   ► It is funny.

00:14:31 ◼   ► That is funny.

00:14:33 ◼   ► I think it's an interesting discussion, but I do think there's misconceptions, I guess,

00:14:40 ◼   ► when it comes to the approach.

00:14:42 ◼   ► So obviously these Apple events, like event is almost like a key word.

00:14:48 ◼   ► These are events.

00:14:49 ◼   ► Apple is putting on an event.

00:14:52 ◼   ► And unlike WWDC, which is also an event, but really geared towards developers, this

00:14:57 ◼   ► is the one.

00:14:58 ◼   ► This is their big one of the year that the the average person is

00:15:01 ◼   ► going to care about and want to know about.

00:15:04 ◼   ► And so it's it would be a silly strategy not to take advantage of

00:15:12 ◼   ► it's like advertising, right?

00:15:13 ◼   ► And today's advertising just It just happens to be influencers have a lot of

00:15:17 ◼   ► attention.

00:15:18 ◼   ► Like you said, like iShow Speed is on we're never allowed to live stream

00:15:22 ◼   ► these things.

00:15:22 ◼   ► But iShow Speed was in their live streaming all over the place.

00:15:25 ◼   ► He has some special permission.

00:15:27 ◼   ► And when you look at his numbers when he was live streaming It's it's

00:15:31 ◼   ► almost a million people watching this man just walk around.

00:15:35 ◼   ► So I know I saw that.

00:15:37 ◼   ► How would you not how do you not say to yourself, and and by

00:15:40 ◼   ► the way, he's someone who every year would do a live stream about the

00:15:43 ◼   ► new iPhone just on his own, right?

00:15:45 ◼   ► He because he's just interested in it.

00:15:47 ◼   ► So why would you not say to yourself, you know what?

00:15:50 ◼   ► If we're gonna bring in celebrities that love our brand, let's bring this guy

00:15:54 ◼   ► in.

00:15:54 ◼   ► There were some other celebrities there too.

00:15:56 ◼   ► Kiki Palmer was there.

00:15:58 ◼   ► Kid Cuddy was there.

00:15:59 ◼   ► There was people there who are not reporters, who are just like taste makers

00:16:04 ◼   ► or seen as or well-followed celebrities.

00:16:08 ◼   ► Now, that being said, I feel like the word influencer gets kind of it

00:16:13 ◼   ► kind of annoys me because it mixes people up like me, who I'm literally

00:16:17 ◼   ► there to do my job,

00:16:19 ◼   ► to report on what Apple is doing and share that with people who are

00:16:23 ◼   ► interested in that versus the influencer who's, hey, I'm just people just find me

00:16:29 ◼   ► interesting and I just do stuff and people watch me.

00:16:31 ◼   ► That's not me.

00:16:32 ◼   ► But I think what most people don't realize is it's not like everybody that

00:16:37 ◼   ► goes and sits in Steve Jobs theater goes home with an iPhone that day

00:16:40 ◼   ► for free.

00:16:41 ◼   ► Right.

00:16:42 ◼   ► Most people do not leave with an iPhone, whether it's that day or after.

00:16:48 ◼   ► It's actually a a small subset of people that do.

00:16:51 ◼   ► And the majority of people who do are doing it because it's our job

00:16:55 ◼   ► to cover it and we wouldn't be able to do our job properly if

00:16:58 ◼   ► if Apple didn't do that.

00:17:00 ◼   ► So when I read Mark's comment there, it was like I see what he

00:17:05 ◼   ► means but I also it's like I disagreed with half of it because I

00:17:09 ◼   ► think it it told the wrong story to the average person who just would

00:17:12 ◼   ► read his tweet and what they would glean from it, I thought was not

00:17:16 ◼   ► actually accurate.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so too.

00:17:18 ◼   ► And I don't think uh knowing Mark, it is not because Mark is

00:17:26 ◼   ► jealous, right?

00:17:27 ◼   ► Mark knows the score with Apple.

00:17:29 ◼   ► I mean I think if they said, Okay, sure.

00:17:31 ◼   ► You know what?

00:17:32 ◼   ► And I've seen him at Apple events.

00:17:35 ◼   ► The last time I remember seeing him at one was it might not be

00:17:38 ◼   ► the last one he was at, but I just remember very vividly it was

00:17:41 ◼   ► the one for the iPhone ten.

00:17:43 ◼   ► So that would be twenty seventeen, I believe.

00:17:47 ◼   ► And the night before he had leaked shocker leaked had a leak that they

00:17:54 ◼   ► were gonna call it in print iPhone space capital X.

00:18:01 ◼   ► I was like, Oh god, another fucking X.

00:18:04 ◼   ► 'Cause I after all these years of people calling it Mac OS X, are

00:18:09 ◼   ► they gonna when it was stood for Mac OS ten, are they gonna call

00:18:13 ◼   ► call it the iPhone with an X thinking it's ten and wanting you to

00:18:19 ◼   ► say ten and the whole world's gonna say iPhone X.

00:18:22 ◼   ► And Gurman said they were gonna call it ten.

00:18:25 ◼   ► And I said, ah I think if it's an X they actually maybe they

00:18:27 ◼   ► think X is cool and they're gonna tell you to say X.

00:18:31 ◼   ► It's just a spitball, you know, and I guess I guess wrong all the

00:18:34 ◼   ► time.

00:18:34 ◼   ► There's one that I guess wrong right there.

00:18:36 ◼   ► And I remember I ran into German in the lobby, the right but not

00:18:42 ◼   ► the upstairs lobby at Steve.

00:18:43 ◼   ► Jobs Theater after they let us down, but in that uh what turns into

00:18:47 ◼   ► the hands on area afterwards behind the seats.

00:18:50 ◼   ► And I say and you know, we said low and I just said I

00:18:54 ◼   ► I'm thinking X not ten and he just said, Nope, ten.

00:18:57 ◼   ► He knew it.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Somebody had told him.

00:18:58 ◼   ► I was like, Ah shit, why'd I shoot my mouth off?

00:19:01 ◼   ► I knew so I knew before they even announced it, with his certainty, the

00:19:06 ◼   ► just the way that he said it.

00:19:07 ◼   ► But it for years since then he's he has not gotten invitations.

00:19:11 ◼   ► And if he ever did again, they would just invite him and act as

00:19:14 ◼   ► though there was no reason that he hadn't invited for so it would just

00:19:18 ◼   ► land in his own.

00:19:19 ◼   ► That's not why he's saying that.

00:19:21 ◼   ► And there are I don't know, I was told by people who who who

00:19:26 ◼   ► were involved.

00:19:27 ◼   ► I met some people, I forget where what countries or there there's more people,

00:19:31 ◼   ► it seems, from international countries that are going could invited to this event.

00:19:37 ◼   ► This one in particular.

00:19:38 ◼   ► WWDC two, but this one in particular.

00:19:41 ◼   ► And that some of them or all of them had been put up by

00:19:45 ◼   ► Apple in a hotel and maybe their flights were paid or some of them.

00:19:49 ◼   ► Um Uh that's normal.

00:19:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:51 ◼   ► In the Indian international.

00:19:54 ◼   ► It is.

00:19:55 ◼   ► And uh German seems to have picked up on this and others too.

00:20:00 ◼   ► And I it's like a sensitive thing for me they don't pay for anything.

00:20:05 ◼   ► They get like I said like I wrote, like I we get cookies and

00:20:08 ◼   ► coffee, right?

00:20:09 ◼   ► Or they had apple tar trees.

00:20:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:12 ◼   ► And then there's some foods.

00:20:13 ◼   ► It's very nice.

00:20:14 ◼   ► The food over at the visitor center where they have they coordinate off for

00:20:18 ◼   ► the press and have Wi Fi.

00:20:20 ◼   ► They give us free Wi Fi, right?

00:20:21 ◼   ► We get that.

00:20:22 ◼   ► But it's the idea it's it does not it the the domestic press does

00:20:28 ◼   ► not get air airfare or uber fare or any fare.

00:20:33 ◼   ► Right, correct.

00:20:34 ◼   ► You just don't.

00:20:35 ◼   ► And it's that's just the way it is for international.

00:20:38 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:20:39 ◼   ► Seems very normal.

00:20:40 ◼   ► And I guess if somebody wanted me to cover something halfway around the world,

00:20:44 ◼   ► maybe I would take I would disclose it i if I took it.

00:20:48 ◼   ► But I get it.

00:20:49 ◼   ► I think it's just a sign though of the I don't think it's related

00:20:52 ◼   ► to coverage.

00:20:53 ◼   ► And like you said, people don't walk out with free iPhones or even review

00:20:57 ◼   ► unit iPhones.

00:20:58 ◼   ► And Apple is very secretive about how many review units go out.

00:21:03 ◼   ► But you can see on embargo lift day how many there are that come

00:21:07 ◼   ► out and it's not that many.

00:21:09 ◼   ► It still isn't it is and I the other thing too is there's always

00:21:17 ◼   ► been just I don't know celebrities.

00:21:20 ◼   ► I mean that's sort of what influencers are.

00:21:22 ◼   ► Like influencers i in it's definitely not you, right?

00:21:26 ◼   ► But

00:21:27 ◼   ► those exactly yes.

00:21:28 ◼   ► Is more along the lines of a next generation self-made come up through where

00:21:35 ◼   ► the modern mediums mediums plural for young people like him 21 years old coming

00:21:42 ◼   ► up are not TV right it's not broadcast TV, it's social media, it's YouTube,

00:21:49 ◼   ► it it's TikTok, it's whatever you can livestream on.

00:21:52 ◼   ► It's these internet first things.

00:21:55 ◼   ► But their fame and their audience is like for people of older generations, what

00:22:02 ◼   ► you had to be on TV to be that famous before.

00:22:05 ◼   ► Nobody in print was that famous, right?

00:22:08 ◼   ► Walt Mossberg is probably the legend of of legends almost certainly in the the

00:22:14 ◼   ► field of what we do.

00:22:16 ◼   ► And Walt Mossberg is not as famous as iShow Speed, whose name I forgot

00:22:22 ◼   ► five minutes ago.

00:22:22 ◼   ► But not at all.

00:22:23 ◼   ► It's just the nature of print versus visual mediums and the new visual mediums

00:22:28 ◼   ► are that.

00:22:29 ◼   ► And so of course a a company that is looking to stay at the

00:22:34 ◼   ► forefront of attention has got to adapt to that in the same way and

00:22:40 ◼   ► I've I I think I'm aging gracefully in this way.

00:22:44 ◼   ► There was a time when I was the

00:22:48 ◼   ► new the odd person in the green room in the media at Apple events

00:22:53 ◼   ► because I was a blogger.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Uh blogging, yes.

00:22:56 ◼   ► Right.

00:22:57 ◼   ► And that was the word like influencer, like well, you're just a blogger.

00:23:00 ◼   ► For a site that I owned, it wasn't a site with any kind of

00:23:04 ◼   ► roots and print.

00:23:05 ◼   ► I didn't have colleagues.

00:23:06 ◼   ► And it was unusual.

00:23:08 ◼   ► And there were some people in the media who I c you know, they

00:23:13 ◼   ► nobody said anything shitty to me, but there were people who I could tell

00:23:16 ◼   ► didn't, saw that I was younger and didn't want to talk to me.

00:23:20 ◼   ► But I'll tell you who did.

00:23:21 ◼   ► You know who did talk to me?

00:23:22 ◼   ► Walt Mossberg.

00:23:24 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:23:24 ◼   ► Walt.

00:23:25 ◼   ► The first time I was in it was in Moscone.

00:23:28 ◼   ► I don't know if it was a Macworld or if it was a WWDC,

00:23:32 ◼   ► but it was the first time where in addition to a press pass I

00:23:36 ◼   ► had a briefing after the keynote and they're like, Go over there and then

00:23:40 ◼   ► you wait and it was over on the side of Moscone and I felt

00:23:44 ◼   ► a little out of place.

00:23:45 ◼   ► I was like, I don't even know if I'm the right place.

00:23:47 ◼   ► And it's like, oh no, you're in the right place.

00:23:48 ◼   ► And it's well what do I do now?

00:23:49 ◼   ► And they're like you just wait and then it'll come get you.

00:23:51 ◼   ► And I'm like, all right.

00:23:53 ◼   ► And Walt Mossberg was there.

00:23:54 ◼   ► I was like, holy shit, Walt Mossberg's here.

00:23:56 ◼   ► And Walt was probably waiting.

00:23:57 ◼   ► Oh well in fact I know he was.

00:23:58 ◼   ► He was waiting to talk to Steve.

00:24:00 ◼   ► Jobs.

00:24:01 ◼   ► I was not waiting to talk to Steve Jobs.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Wow.

00:24:04 ◼   ► But Walt was, I'm sure, and Walt came up to me and or I

00:24:08 ◼   ► introduced myself first, but he knew who I was and he just ah, I

00:24:12 ◼   ► love your work.

00:24:13 ◼   ► I think you're doing a great job.

00:24:14 ◼   ► And it we talked for a bit and was just so gracious.

00:24:19 ◼   ► He didn't have to be like that.

00:24:20 ◼   ► And there were other people who definitely weren't, but I w always remember that.

00:24:23 ◼   ► It's just a I don't know.

00:24:25 ◼   ► It sounds like such a Uh Kinard.

00:24:29 ◼   ► But the it's a change it's the media landscape is always changing.

00:24:32 ◼   ► And it would be ridiculous if Apple didn't.

00:24:36 ◼   ► Well I mean it's but it's also not it's not supposed to be just

00:24:41 ◼   ► a press conference.

00:24:42 ◼   ► That's really the thing.

00:24:43 ◼   ► Apple's not trying to put on a press conference.

00:24:45 ◼   ► They're trying to put on a pop culture event that everybody if you don't

00:24:49 ◼   ► hear from it or if you don't care, if you don't care about consumer

00:24:52 ◼   ► electronics, you are gonna hear about it from the red carpet when John Turnis

00:24:56 ◼   ► is there.

00:24:57 ◼   ► You're gonna hear about it from celebrities who are there.

00:25:00 ◼   ► They wanna make sure everybody or as many people as possible know that something

00:25:05 ◼   ► just happened today.

00:25:07 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's the hard thing.

00:25:09 ◼   ► And I would like to write about it some year.

00:25:12 ◼   ► I don't about this year already, but uh it's it's so hard to keep

00:25:15 ◼   ► up for me at least at the pace that I'm able to write stuff.

00:25:19 ◼   ► It's so hard to write about the actual announcements uh i and t to

00:25:25 ◼   ► write about the event separately in a way that I would like to sort

00:25:29 ◼   ► of describe what it's like.

00:25:31 ◼   ► And that's why I'm glad to have a podcast where I can talk about

00:25:34 ◼   ► it.

00:25:34 ◼   ► But it is and I there is this whole other debate about hey, should

00:25:39 ◼   ► Apple go back to live on stage keynotes?

00:25:42 ◼   ► And Meta just had a very good one.

00:25:44 ◼   ► I did watch you at your suggestion, but I wanted to talk about it

00:25:48 ◼   ► with Ben Thompson on Dithering for what's going to be tomorrow's episode two.

00:25:53 ◼   ► And it's what Meta did is exactly what a people some people are w

00:25:58 ◼   ► hope Apple would do, which is go back to a traditional here's a stage,

00:26:03 ◼   ► here's the CEO of the company in live in front of a couple hundred

00:26:07 ◼   ► people in the media and some employees who were gonna do the clapping and

00:26:12 ◼   ► talk about things and do demos with products in your hand or on your

00:26:16 ◼   ► face if their glasses in front of the people mixed in with pre recorded

00:26:21 ◼   ► videos that you showed to people.

00:26:23 ◼   ► Which Steve Jobs always did, right?

00:26:25 ◼   ► And I Steve always did a fun thing and I always like he always

00:26:29 ◼   ► did it.

00:26:29 ◼   ► He would be like, Hey, we shot a we made a commercial about this

00:26:32 ◼   ► or we made a video about this.

00:26:34 ◼   ► Would you like to see it?

00:26:35 ◼   ► Remember that?

00:26:36 ◼   ► He'd always say, Would you like to see it?

00:26:37 ◼   ► And everybody would Yeah, and then and then people would clap and he'd be

00:26:41 ◼   ► like, Oh, okay, well then play the video.

00:26:43 ◼   ► Was there any chance that he was not going to play the video?

00:26:46 ◼   ► But he would ask.

00:26:47 ◼   ► He would always ask.

00:26:49 ◼   ► And then they'd play a video.

00:26:51 ◼   ► You know, and that's where we got to know Johnny Ive as outsiders, right?

00:26:55 ◼   ► Because Johnny Ive does not like I think once or twice he did appear

00:26:58 ◼   ► on stage or was in a stunt where he took a phone call from

00:27:02 ◼   ► Steve or something.

00:27:03 ◼   ► But for the most part Johnny Ive wasn't comfortable, didn't want to be on

00:27:06 ◼   ► stage live and would do those often parodied voiceover things talking about the design.

00:27:14 ◼   ► And pronouncing aluminium.

00:27:17 ◼   ► But the thing that gets lost though is people say, I wish Apple would

00:27:19 ◼   ► go back to that.

00:27:20 ◼   ► These pre recorded things are boring.

00:27:23 ◼   ► And I get it if you think they're boring, but Apple I know what

00:27:26 ◼   ► Apple and I know you know that Apple and I know that YouTube changed

00:27:29 ◼   ► the way they count the views, but a lot of fucking people watch their

00:27:33 ◼   ► videos.

00:27:34 ◼   ► Right?

00:27:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:35 ◼   ► And I think it's who are the people saying is boring?

00:27:38 ◼   ► It's probably people like us who would rather see demos, right?

00:27:42 ◼   ► But the average person is what Apple's doing is giving you a show.

00:27:45 ◼   ► They're giving you a a a an entertaining commercial.

00:27:48 ◼   ► Right.

00:27:49 ◼   ► But visually stimulating.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Yep.

00:27:51 ◼   ► And but the thing that is so hard to get across, because nobody really

00:27:55 ◼   ► writes about it.

00:27:55 ◼   ► And you can see it if you watch the day of and the hands-on.

00:27:59 ◼   ► But the whole thing is a a live event, right?

00:28:03 ◼   ► It is like the premiere of a movie and there's hundreds of people there.

00:28:08 ◼   ► And there's a buzz in the air and there's jostling and a crowd.

00:28:14 ◼   ► And it is a thing, right?

00:28:17 ◼   ► It is electric.

00:28:18 ◼   ► And that is partly the way it's always been, but it's also sort of

00:28:23 ◼   ► different now, and it's a bigger deal, right?

00:28:26 ◼   ► I did not know who iShow Speed was before this happened.

00:28:29 ◼   ► I really didn't but now that I find out that there was a guy

00:28:33 ◼   ► in the hands on area doing backflips with a million people watching him as

00:28:37 ◼   ► he did it at the same time.

00:28:39 ◼   ► I'm like that feels right.

00:28:41 ◼   ► It feels like an area where yes, I don't know who all these people

00:28:45 ◼   ► are.

00:28:46 ◼   ► I don't some of them are speaking Chinese.

00:28:49 ◼   ► Obviously don't know who they are.

00:28:51 ◼   ► But some of them you can see sometimes, see people who are live streaming.

00:28:54 ◼   ► And again, they obviously have some kind of special special dispensation from Apple to

00:28:58 ◼   ► do that, right?

00:28:59 ◼   ► I'm not allowed to live stream.

00:29:01 ◼   ► You're not I mean I could do it, but then I maybe I then

00:29:04 ◼   ► I don't stop getting invited.

00:29:05 ◼   ► But some people are permitted to and you can just kind of tell whoever

00:29:09 ◼   ► they are if they're permitted to.

00:29:10 ◼   ► There's a lot of people watching this live right it is a cultivated thing

00:29:16 ◼   ► and it does it gets the buzz generating right the live event aspect of

00:29:23 ◼   ► it and it's just it's hard for people outside who aren't there to sort

00:29:28 ◼   ► of understand what that's like.

00:29:31 ◼   ► I did think we might see some sort of hybrid this time, just because

00:29:38 ◼   ► we've got a new CEO.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Maybe he wants to do something a little different.

00:29:42 ◼   ► And the the guess I had was if they're wanting to introduce a foldable.

00:29:47 ◼   ► You know how they always do all those those cool transitions when they're doing

00:29:50 ◼   ► their show.

00:29:52 ◼   ► Unfold Unfolding into the theater, like on the screen and he's walking out and

00:29:57 ◼   ► I care and he's holding it.

00:29:58 ◼   ► Like the way Steve Jobs would hold it back in the day holding it

00:30:01 ◼   ► in his hand, everybody taking photos as he's and here we are, we're back

00:30:03 ◼   ► live.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Would have been interesting to see because I almost did feel like

00:30:10 ◼   ► Turnus has an amazing personality, very different from Tim Cook, but it also felt

00:30:16 ◼   ► like he's just playing he's just playing Tim Cook's role in in this video.

00:30:21 ◼   ► That it didn't feel like his.

00:30:23 ◼   ► It just felt like he stepped into someone else's place as opposed to having

00:30:28 ◼   ► his own

00:30:30 ◼   ► methodology of doing it.

00:30:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:33 ◼   ► And I don't know how much of that is just well, they're part of

00:30:37 ◼   ► the seamless most seamless CEO transition ever is making every change one little click

00:30:46 ◼   ► at a time and nothing's I mean, this is what I think is that

00:30:50 ◼   ► there Tim Cook was on board with this John Turnus now that he is

00:30:54 ◼   ► the CEO is on board with this I do think it is

00:31:00 ◼   ► definitely Turnus's call.

00:31:02 ◼   ► Like I know uh Cook is now chairman of the board and that's an

00:31:06 ◼   ► unusual and unprecedented situation for a new CEO of Apple.

00:31:10 ◼   ► But this whole th everything is unprecedented, right?

00:31:13 ◼   ► The the modern history of Apple started Starts with Steve Jobs coming back to

00:31:17 ◼   ► the company, right?

00:31:18 ◼   ► And I'm interested in the that prehistoric period from the eighties and the nineties

00:31:25 ◼   ► before that.

00:31:26 ◼   ► And I do think that some of that

00:31:29 ◼   ► DNA is still in the company.

00:31:31 ◼   ► But in terms of it's like an A you know B C A D,

00:31:36 ◼   ► like year zero of modern Apple is December nineteen ninety six when they made

00:31:42 ◼   ► the deal to buy next.

00:31:44 ◼   ► And nineteen ninety s right.

00:31:47 ◼   ► It's it's not it just isn't worth

00:31:50 ◼   ► trying to draw a line through that period, right?

00:31:54 ◼   ► And so you've really just got Steve Jobs and then Steve Jobs got sick

00:31:59 ◼   ► and he was going to be the chairman if he had been able to

00:32:02 ◼   ► stay ahead of the cancer after he stepped down as CEO.

00:32:06 ◼   ► But he didn't.

00:32:06 ◼   ► He was gone I think it was August when he m said, I can't

00:32:10 ◼   ► that day has come, can't do this anymore and by end of October he

00:32:14 ◼   ► was dead.

00:32:15 ◼   ► So there hasn't been the opportunity for the ex CEO to remain as chairman

00:32:20 ◼   ► of the board before.

00:32:21 ◼   ► But I do g I g very much have the impression that Tim Cook

00:32:23 ◼   ► knows that if you're CEO, you've got to be left alone to be the

00:32:26 ◼   ► CEO You cannot have the chairman breathing down your neck.

00:32:30 ◼   ► No.

00:32:30 ◼   ► And I think Tim Cook has plenty of stuff to keep him busy, right?

00:32:33 ◼   ► Somebody joked, somebody observed, I forget what country they were from.

00:32:37 ◼   ► So it was like Australia or something, but like somebody from like the Prime

00:32:40 ◼   ► Minister of Australia or some other country was there and Tim Cook was showing

00:32:44 ◼   ► them around campus like last Saturday and they're like, The guy just got the

00:32:48 ◼   ► job and he's already working weekends.

00:32:50 ◼   ► Oh, that's funny.

00:32:51 ◼   ► Wow.

00:32:51 ◼   ► I mean good.

00:32:52 ◼   ► Let him handle those things though.

00:32:53 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:32:54 ◼   ► But I could see that.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Like, did this current Apple keynote format evolve to fit Tim Cook's style?

00:33:00 ◼   ► I think yes.

00:33:02 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:03 ◼   ► And so is it going to evolve to fit Turnus' style?

00:33:08 ◼   ► Yes, I think.

00:33:09 ◼   ► So I do think it will change.

00:33:11 ◼   ► But I don't think I I don't think changing it significantly out of the

00:33:15 ◼   ► get go was ever considered.

00:33:17 ◼   ► And especially for the iPhone event, right?

00:33:20 ◼   ► This next month

00:33:22 ◼   ► right?

00:33:22 ◼   ► Do you I everybody anticipates an October event or announcements of some sort.

00:33:28 ◼   ► You never know what they'll do for these October things.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Will it

00:33:43 ◼   ► Yeah, or like the Neo event in March which was awesome.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Really one of the best events they had, like a one off event in

00:33:50 ◼   ► a weird warehouse space that they just took over and built a thing.

00:33:54 ◼   ► And Turnus spoke at that one, right?

00:33:57 ◼   ► Although I don't think they broadcast that, right?

00:33:59 ◼   ► That but something like that, but maybe broadcast his actual remarks, right?

00:34:06 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:07 ◼   ► I would love to see them do something like that.

00:34:09 ◼   ► And I kind of think they want to too right?

00:34:12 ◼   ► And so the one they're least likely to screw with is going to be

00:34:16 ◼   ► the September iPhone event, right?

00:34:18 ◼   ► That it's it's like their Oscar.

00:34:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:21 ◼   ► And it's yeah, it's if you go back on YouTube and look at like

00:34:24 ◼   ► the nineteen seventy seven Oscars and I don't know, Johnny Carson's hosting or Bob

00:34:28 ◼   ► Hope or somebody like that, you're like, Holy shit, this does like for me,

00:34:32 ◼   ► I was like I don't know, four years old at the time.

00:34:34 ◼   ► And it's like it brings back some vibes 'cause I remember like being a

00:34:38 ◼   ► little kid and not even knowing what these award shows are, but my mom

00:34:41 ◼   ► and dad would be watching them or whatever, and it's like, Oh my god,

00:34:43 ◼   ► this is amazing.

00:34:44 ◼   ► And it is different.

00:34:45 ◼   ► It's nothing like the modern day Oscars.

00:34:48 ◼   ► But that's there was no year in between where it was like, oh wow,

00:34:51 ◼   ► they totally changed how they did the Oscars.

00:34:53 ◼   ► It just evolved over time.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:56 ◼   ► And I think the iPhone event will be like that.

00:34:58 ◼   ► And the other thing about the the invitees is I've heard and maybe I

00:35:02 ◼   ► heard it from you.

00:35:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:35:05 ◼   ► But what I've heard is that they've made room to invite a broader range

00:35:12 ◼   ► of influencers and media people by inviting fewer employees to sit in the theater

00:35:20 ◼   ► for the keynote.

00:35:21 ◼   ► That was me.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Yeah, that was so it was yeah.

00:35:23 ◼   ► So basically for this event in particular for whatever reason, Maybe just because it's

00:35:28 ◼   ► their first foldable.

00:35:29 ◼   ► It's I mean when again I was talking about this to other people, really

00:35:32 ◼   ► this is the only the second time in the history of the iPhone that

00:35:35 ◼   ► we're really seeing a new way to use an iPhone, right?

00:35:39 ◼   ► It was the home button era and then it was the iPhone ten with

00:35:42 ◼   ► the gesture era and this is only the second time, so the second change.

00:35:46 ◼   ► So it was a bigger deal than typical and they wanted to get more

00:35:51 ◼   ► media slash influencers slash celebrities in there.

00:35:54 ◼   ► So the only way to do that would be to lessen the number of

00:35:59 ◼   ► Apple employees, right?

00:36:01 ◼   ► Because you can't they're not gonna magically grow the size of the Steve Jobs

00:36:05 ◼   ► Theater, which different from W W D C where they're doing it outside and

00:36:10 ◼   ► you could just throw some more chairs out there somewhere.

00:36:13 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:13 ◼   ► You have th a couple thousand people, it seems like thousands, right.

00:36:16 ◼   ► This is Yeah.

00:36:17 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:17 ◼   ► What is the Steve Jobs theater?

00:36:19 ◼   ► I looked it back up when they announced it.

00:36:21 ◼   ► Apple Newsroom said a thousand people.

00:36:24 ◼   ► And I don't I take it that's roughly.

00:36:26 ◼   ► And they've re-jiggered the seating slightly since it opened, but I'm gonna say a

00:36:30 ◼   ► thousand people, give or take.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Okay, so if you typically would have twenty five percent Apple employees and seventy

00:36:36 ◼   ► five percent media, maybe you lessen that to fifteen percent Apple employees or something.

00:36:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know what more attention.

00:36:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:43 ◼   ► And I could tell there was a lot of new people there, a lot

00:36:46 ◼   ► of new faces.

00:36:47 ◼   ► Yeah, and so that's my bigger takeaway from and where I think German is

00:36:51 ◼   ► wrong is I don't think there's any decrease in the number of whatever your

00:36:57 ◼   ► your idea of who the r right people are to be invited, people who

00:37:01 ◼   ► if they get time to talk to Apple executives on or off the record

00:37:05 ◼   ► will ask hard questions or interesting and probing questions.

00:37:10 ◼   ► People who really are are going to say more than wow a real a

00:37:14 ◼   ► new iPhone.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Right?

00:37:16 ◼   ► People who are going to actually evaluate it with a critical eye.

00:37:20 ◼   ► I don't think they've ever I don't think they've turned the dial down on

00:37:24 ◼   ► that type of invitees in order to make room for cheerleaders or people who

00:37:32 ◼   ► are just enthusiastic.

00:37:34 ◼   ► I think they've added that without decreasing the other mix by taking away seats

00:37:39 ◼   ► that previously went to Apple employees.

00:37:41 ◼   ► Yes, I think that's I think that's accurate.

00:37:43 ◼   ► And I think in Okay the the truth is I think if they had

00:37:49 ◼   ► it to do all over again, they would at least double the size of

00:37:52 ◼   ► Steve Jobs Theater.

00:37:53 ◼   ► Right?

00:37:54 ◼   ► A thousand seats seems big.

00:37:55 ◼   ► And it's I just linked yesterday as we record to that fourteen or sixteen

00:38:01 ◼   ► year old recording of the the Antenna Gate press conference, which was in Apple's

00:38:07 ◼   ► old town hall.

00:38:08 ◼   ► Town hall held, I think, a hundred and twenty five people.

00:38:12 ◼   ► Somebody told me the h the the seed count once.

00:38:15 ◼   ► And I think it used to only hold a hundred and it was like

00:38:19 ◼   ► around that time, like when the iPhone became after the iPhone shipped and it's

00:38:26 ◼   ► it's becoming a big hit and uh things it was starting to head in

00:38:31 ◼   ► this direction where it would be hard to f hard to make the cut

00:38:34 ◼   ► for a thousand seat place.

00:38:36 ◼   ► They redid the seats in the town hall and they made them like what

00:38:41 ◼   ► when airlines do.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Like when they're like, We're gonna add two more rows we're gonna add two

00:38:45 ◼   ► more rows to the cabin and it's like, ah Christ.

00:38:48 ◼   ► And it's like all of a sudden there's no room for your knees in

00:38:51 ◼   ► your seat.

00:38:52 ◼   ► And at that AntenneGate press conference it's part of it was that was so

00:38:58 ◼   ► unusual and literally put together the day before.

00:39:02 ◼   ► I re I wrote it was on a Friday and it was a Thursday

00:39:07 ◼   ► and somebody from Apple PR called me to see say, Hey, I think we're

00:39:11 ◼   ► gonna do an event tomorrow.

00:39:13 ◼   ► I think they even told me what it was about, which is that just

00:39:15 ◼   ► tells you how unusual it is.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Okay.

00:39:18 ◼   ► About this antenna situation.

00:39:21 ◼   ► Could you make it?

00:39:22 ◼   ► And I was like, I'll try, you know, and I booked a flight and

00:39:25 ◼   ► literally at like eleven thirty A.

00:39:27 ◼   ► M.

00:39:27 ◼   ► East Coast time I had no idea and by three I'm at the airport

00:39:31 ◼   ► getting on a flight to SFO.

00:39:33 ◼   ► But the the town hall if you look at that video, it was only

00:39:36 ◼   ► like maybe two thirds or three quarters full.

00:39:38 ◼   ► There were like at least a quarter of the seats were empty.

00:39:41 ◼   ► That would not happen today.

00:39:42 ◼   ► No, not at all.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Twenty twenty two days after the release of the iPhone eighteen pro, or let's

00:39:48 ◼   ► say the duo right?

00:39:49 ◼   ► 'Cause the duo is the better compare, the one that everybody's excited.

00:39:53 ◼   ► Twenty two days after the duo comes out, they have to hold an emergency

00:39:57 ◼   ► press conference because there are reports that if you hold it wrong, it loses

00:40:02 ◼   ► cell reception, there would not be uh seventy five people at that event.

00:40:10 ◼   ► That would be that would be full.

00:40:11 ◼   ► I mean that's the biggest story.

00:40:13 ◼   ► And so I think coming from app old Apple campus where the hundred to

00:40:18 ◼   ► hundred twenty five seat theater is like, Oh, that's too small and they made

00:40:22 ◼   ► the Johnny Ivan, the architects are like, We'll make this grand Steve Jobs theater

00:40:26 ◼   ► and it'll be a thousand seats and I think they thought that'll be a

00:40:29 ◼   ► lot.

00:40:30 ◼   ► I think g d given the iPhone event, it's at least that event every

00:40:35 ◼   ► year.

00:40:36 ◼   ► If they could have a bigger room, they could they would take it.

00:40:39 ◼   ► But they don't have a bigger room.

00:40:41 ◼   ► So it's a thousand and that's it.

00:40:43 ◼   ► And so I think conversely, I think the weird thing is as Apple's own

00:40:47 ◼   ► headcount of employees has grown and continues to grow and there's more people who

00:40:52 ◼   ► work at Apple than ever, it's easier I think for them to say we're

00:40:57 ◼   ► gonna have fewer employees there because it was already at the point where only

00:41:00 ◼   ► a tiny sliver of Apple employees could possibly get in there.

00:41:04 ◼   ► Right.

00:41:05 ◼   ► Oh right.

00:41:06 ◼   ► Certainly.

00:41:06 ◼   ► Right, of course.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Right.

00:41:07 ◼   ► If you're not one of the executives who's uh in the keynotes sometimes and

00:41:12 ◼   ► gets to sit in the first few rows, you're probably not gonna get to

00:41:15 ◼   ► watch live.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And you're just watching a video anyway, really.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Right.

00:41:19 ◼   ► And it's not to take anything away from them, but if the point is

00:41:22 ◼   ► getting atten like the point of this event is to get attention on things.

00:41:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:26 ◼   ► Doesn't help.

00:41:27 ◼   ► As someone like maybe you worked on you're one of the people who worked

00:41:30 ◼   ► on moving the variable aperture, right?

00:41:32 ◼   ► You're one of the just the team that worked on the variable aperture.

00:41:36 ◼   ► It's cool to be able to be there and see the reception of it,

00:41:39 ◼   ► but you yourself are not accomplishing the ultimate goal of getting attention on the

00:41:44 ◼   ► event on the devices, so you're spendable in that sense.

00:41:50 ◼   ► The other thing that was weird, have you ever been I presume you have,

00:41:52 ◼   ► 'cause it's been open for a bit.

00:41:54 ◼   ► They have that weird not weird, but unusual new building, the observatory.

00:41:59 ◼   ► Which is over there.

00:42:00 ◼   ► It's close to the Steve Jobs Theater by tr by it's supposed to be.

00:42:05 ◼   ► And they've had press things in there.

00:42:08 ◼   ► And then I was wondering f w you I told earlier in the show

00:42:11 ◼   ► when I was talking about the place where they took us to in a

00:42:13 ◼   ► shuttle over in Menlo Park half an hour away.

00:42:17 ◼   ► Why didn't they do this over in the observatory?

00:42:19 ◼   ► But it turns out the observatory was where they after the hands on area

00:42:23 ◼   ► where they took all of the sort of celebrity types.

00:42:27 ◼   ► They did use the observatory, but it wasn't for the media.

00:42:31 ◼   ► It was

00:42:33 ◼   ► for social type things.

00:42:35 ◼   ► And last year they used the observatory as a hands on area for is

00:42:40 ◼   ► seventeen.

00:42:41 ◼   ► But camera in particular, I remember.

00:42:44 ◼   ► Yes.

00:42:45 ◼   ► I think it was a mixture of this is my guess.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Way more people this year being invited, so the observatory will be more cramped.

00:42:52 ◼   ► And secondly, they were setting up for an evening event which they've never done

00:42:56 ◼   ► before and maybe they didn't want us to see.

00:42:59 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:42:59 ◼   ► What was going on?

00:43:00 ◼   ► Let's just get these guys over there and leave 'em there all day.

00:43:04 ◼   ► I know.

00:43:04 ◼   ► If but if it keeps going in this direction, by next year they're gonna

00:43:07 ◼   ► uh uh put hoods over our heads and blindfold us.

00:43:10 ◼   ► Right.

00:43:11 ◼   ► And we're gonna wake up and they're gonna tell us we uh we can't

00:43:14 ◼   ► tell you what state you're in.

00:43:16 ◼   ► All right, let me take a break and then we can talk about the

00:43:18 ◼   ► actual stuff that they announce.

00:43:20 ◼   ► And I'm gonna talk to you about our good friends at Notion.

00:43:24 ◼   ► Hey, are you worried you listener of the show?

00:43:28 ◼   ► Is it is it occurred to you uh do you have just a little

00:43:32 ◼   ► bit of uneasiness about hey, is are companies making AI products trying to replace

00:43:37 ◼   ► human beings?

00:43:38 ◼   ► Some companies are talking like that.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Notion definitely is not.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Teamwork is something that is fundamental to what Notion is meant to to work

00:43:49 ◼   ► with.

00:43:50 ◼   ► It's for actual people on teams.

00:43:52 ◼   ► And yes, there's AI in Notion right now.

00:43:56 ◼   ► But it is not about like helping a one person company whose employees, quote

00:44:04 ◼   ► unquote, are an army of uh AI agents.

00:44:08 ◼   ► That's not Notion.

00:44:09 ◼   ► If that's the way that is an interesting area of AI, that's not notions

00:44:14 ◼   ► game.

00:44:14 ◼   ► Notions game is companies and teams full of actual people who are trying to

00:44:20 ◼   ► use software to collaborate and Notion is a great tool for that.

00:44:24 ◼   ► It is the AI workspace where your teams, knowledge, projects, and agents all come

00:44:31 ◼   ► together in one place.

00:44:33 ◼   ► Teams using Notion, move faster, cut friction and costs by consolidating tools and stay

00:44:42 ◼   ► aligned.

00:44:43 ◼   ► In Notion, your documents, your meetings, your projects, all of that stuff lives in

00:44:48 ◼   ► one place in a connected system where the people on your team have access

00:44:53 ◼   ► to them and can query them and search for them and ask questions about

00:44:57 ◼   ► them.

00:44:58 ◼   ► And the AI that you're using can do stuff like that too.

00:45:01 ◼   ► But it really is about teamwork.

00:45:04 ◼   ► Learn more about how Notion can support your business at Notion.com slash talkshow.

00:45:12 ◼   ► That's all lowercase letters.

00:45:15 ◼   ► Notion, N-O-T-I-O-N, Notion.com slash talk show to try Notion to get today.

00:45:23 ◼   ► And when you used that link, you are supporting our show.

00:45:26 ◼   ► Notion.com slash talk show.

00:45:30 ◼   ► What do you think about the actual announcements?

00:45:32 ◼   ► What's your takeaway two weeks later?

00:45:35 ◼   ► It's well it's interesting because with the announcement of the iPhone Duo,

00:45:44 ◼   ► you kind of that's where all the attention shifts to.

00:45:48 ◼   ► So I think a lot of the other announcements that were made kind of

00:45:53 ◼   ► got quickly overshadowed by that one.

00:45:57 ◼   ► But I think everything everything was solid.

00:46:00 ◼   ► We had the AirPod, which

00:46:04 ◼   ► the one thing that confuses me is why do they even have the two

00:46:07 ◼   ► different models that are only separated by twenty dollars?

00:46:10 ◼   ► I so they did that with the AirPods four and they did it again

00:46:14 ◼   ► with AirPods Five.

00:46:15 ◼   ► So A, if they did it again, I guess the answer is people buy

00:46:19 ◼   ► the cheaper one too?

00:46:20 ◼   ► I I

00:46:22 ◼   ► and that they somehow are convinced that if they only offered the one with

00:46:26 ◼   ► the charging case that the some of the people who buy the cheaper one

00:46:31 ◼   ► wouldn't the extra twenty bucks.

00:46:33 ◼   ► I tried to ask in my briefing and I got one of those like

00:46:37 ◼   ► a like uh I could see the look in their eyes that was like,

00:46:41 ◼   ► We're not gonna answer that one.

00:46:42 ◼   ► When they had if the words coming out of their mouth was different people

00:46:45 ◼   ► have different needs and where they're both great products, blah blah blah.

00:46:49 ◼   ► But it really this is something where I I feel like I would like

00:46:53 ◼   ► to be in the Apple store and every time somebody tries to buy the

00:46:56 ◼   ► AirPods five For $129.

00:47:00 ◼   ► I want to shake them and say, here, I'll just give you twenty bucks.

00:47:03 ◼   ► Here.

00:47:03 ◼   ► Take twenty dollars and buy the other one.

00:47:05 ◼   ► I swear to God.

00:47:07 ◼   ► Pay it forward.

00:47:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Because it's such a better product.

00:47:12 ◼   ► Right.

00:47:12 ◼   ► You're getting an hour more battery.

00:47:14 ◼   ► You're getting the charging case that can go wireless.

00:47:17 ◼   ► Yep.

00:47:17 ◼   ► And you're getting the volume on the stems, right?

00:47:21 ◼   ► You can squeeze the stems on the entry model, but you can't raise and

00:47:25 ◼   ► lower the volume.

00:47:25 ◼   ► And that's crazy to me.

00:47:27 ◼   ► I mean, I forgot that there are AirPods that don't have volume on the

00:47:31 ◼   ► stem.

00:47:32 ◼   ► I mean that's how how long I've been using the AirPods Pro and it's

00:47:35 ◼   ► so great.

00:47:36 ◼   ► Like why what how do you lower the volume otherwise?

00:47:38 ◼   ► What do you need to talk to C I mean I don't no matter

00:47:40 ◼   ► how good Siri gets, I don't tell Siri to raise and lower the volume.

00:47:43 ◼   ► That seems stupid.

00:47:44 ◼   ► I just put my finger there.

00:47:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I take your phone like an animal.

00:47:47 ◼   ► Yeah, so I don't get the volume button.

00:47:49 ◼   ► I d but it somebody must be buying it because they did it two

00:47:52 ◼   ► generations in a row.

00:47:53 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:47:54 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:47:54 ◼   ► But the cool the the best part of that announcement, I mean obviously they

00:47:57 ◼   ► sound great, but noise cancellation came to the entry level.

00:48:03 ◼   ► And so what we really saw there was a price drop, if you think

00:48:07 ◼   ► about it, versus what you had to pay on AirPods four to get that

00:48:11 ◼   ► feature versus AirPods Five, especially in the current day and age with how the

00:48:15 ◼   ► pricing of technology items, like this is a real price drop, right?

00:48:19 ◼   ► You get this feature for much less than you did just the day before

00:48:23 ◼   ► on the AirPods 4.

00:48:24 ◼   ► So I thought that was I thought that was great.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Apple Watch, I'm just going order of what I thought was exciting.

00:48:29 ◼   ► I'm not trying to take over.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Yeah yeah.

00:48:31 ◼   ► Uh but Apple Watch.

00:48:33 ◼   ► I it I didn't see As aside from the audio intelligence feature, which I

00:48:37 ◼   ► think is the most controversial thing they did.

00:48:40 ◼   ► And interesting.

00:48:42 ◼   ► Right.

00:48:42 ◼   ► And it's and it's not out yet even in beta.

00:48:45 ◼   ► So it's all we you and I with review units and access to the

00:48:50 ◼   ► betas that are develop we still can't talk about it.

00:48:53 ◼   ► We don't have it, yes.

00:48:54 ◼   ► I did I was happy to see the return of the ceramic finish.

00:48:58 ◼   ► I was a big fan of that.

00:48:59 ◼   ► Yeah, that's nice.

00:48:59 ◼   ► What was it?

00:49:00 ◼   ► Series three ver three through five, I think it was.

00:49:02 ◼   ► Back then called the Apple Watch Edition, which they did not bring back that

00:49:05 ◼   ► name.

00:49:06 ◼   ► I forgot that.

00:49:06 ◼   ► Weird name anyway.

00:49:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:08 ◼   ► But so but it almost felt like we have to do something unique and

00:49:11 ◼   ► different this time because there's not much change to the hardware itself.

00:49:16 ◼   ► So that that's one thing that they did.

00:49:18 ◼   ► I thought the finishes this year are really good.

00:49:20 ◼   ► The gold looked really good.

00:49:21 ◼   ► The bronze I thought was really nice on the aluminum.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Putting ceramic shield two on the aluminum watches to me, Ceramic Shield two was

00:49:29 ◼   ► like the the unsung hero of the iPhone 17 line.

00:49:32 ◼   ► Like after, I don't know, a week or so of babying iPhones for years,

00:49:39 ◼   ► I would always have these micro scratches on there.

00:49:41 ◼   ► And the 17 Pro after a year today.

00:49:45 ◼   ► It's as if it was just taken out of the box.

00:49:47 ◼   ► So if you ever bang your Apple Watch on a door jam as you're

00:49:51 ◼   ► walking by or whatever and get micro scratches on it, I think that problem

00:49:55 ◼   ► is solved this year.

00:49:56 ◼   ► So that's very nice.

00:49:57 ◼   ► But I am interested to see how it the audio intelligence is going to

00:50:02 ◼   ► be received by the general public, especially with

00:50:08 ◼   ► the

00:50:09 ◼   ► at least the online backlash of meta's glasses.

00:50:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:13 ◼   ► And the the whole feeling of surveillance that people are worried about?

00:50:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:20 ◼   ► Is that a general population worry or is that an online echo chamber worry?

00:50:25 ◼   ► I'm just curious where that goes.

00:50:27 ◼   ► How do you feel about those features though?

00:50:29 ◼   ► I'm okay with them.

00:50:30 ◼   ► And I did just I had a short piece on Daring Fireball that I

00:50:34 ◼   ► could probably just summarize.

00:50:35 ◼   ► But I think I'm glad to see Apple doing it, and it seems thoughtful,

00:50:40 ◼   ► and they didn't spell this out.

00:50:42 ◼   ► But then when I had a follow-up call with Apple, the product marketing people

00:50:47 ◼   ► for the review unit of the watch, I asked about it.

00:50:50 ◼   ► And it was my formulation, but they said that that is a good point

00:50:54 ◼   ► and we do think of it that way, which is that my question to

00:50:57 ◼   ► them was, Well, how come these features you have to have the watch to

00:51:01 ◼   ► do?

00:51:02 ◼   ► Why can't my phone i putting aside the larger question of are these good

00:51:06 ◼   ► ideas and are people comfortable with them anyway.

00:51:09 ◼   ► Why can't the phone do this?

00:51:11 ◼   ► The phone has microphones.

00:51:12 ◼   ► The phone, if anything, probably has better microphones than the watch.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Phone has a better processor, bigger battery.

00:51:19 ◼   ► Why doesn't the phone list listen to for these things.

00:51:22 ◼   ► And then I thought about it, and it's that the watch is a trusted

00:51:27 ◼   ► device once it's on your wrist and unlocked, and it remains trusted until you

00:51:32 ◼   ► take it off.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Right?

00:51:33 ◼   ► You put it on in the morning.

00:51:35 ◼   ► You either type in your code or you unlock it with your watch and

00:51:39 ◼   ► now the the watch is unlocked until you take it off.

00:51:44 ◼   ► Whereas your phone is only in a trusted state when the screen's on, right?

00:51:49 ◼   ► And it's like you forget that with face ID.

00:51:52 ◼   ► And we could talk about it we'll talk about that with t with the

00:51:54 ◼   ► duo in a bit, but the lack of face ID.

00:51:58 ◼   ► But with the phone, it's all day, every day.

00:52:01 ◼   ► It is going you don't really think about it because I I don't think

00:52:04 ◼   ► about it, even though I'm talking about it right here.

00:52:06 ◼   ► But it's like I forget about it.

00:52:08 ◼   ► Is it's face ID for me is so seamless that I don't think of

00:52:13 ◼   ► my phone as being locked and unlocked and locked and unlocked and locked and

00:52:16 ◼   ► unlocked.

00:52:17 ◼   ► But it is.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Dozens and dozens of times a day it goes from locked and totally locked

00:52:24 ◼   ► out of anybody who picks it up can't do anything to I look at

00:52:28 ◼   ► it and as soon as I look at it it's unlocked and now it'll

00:52:31 ◼   ► show me private information.

00:52:33 ◼   ► And so the phone really isn't a good device to be listening to conversations.

00:52:37 ◼   ► In my example, just not even being creepy, but like I leave my phone

00:52:41 ◼   ► in our kitchen all the time.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I that's a place where I just I have a spot on the counter

00:52:46 ◼   ► and there's chargers and conversations take place in the kitchen when I'm not in

00:52:52 ◼   ► the kitchen.

00:52:53 ◼   ► My phone should not be recording and transcribing those conversations, right?

00:52:58 ◼   ► They're almost certainly innocuous.

00:53:00 ◼   ► It's my wife and son here or whoever else might be a guest in

00:53:03 ◼   ► the house.

00:53:04 ◼   ► But I'm not there.

00:53:05 ◼   ► So it shouldn't listening.

00:53:06 ◼   ► Definitely.

00:53:07 ◼   ► I think everybody I don't want it to be listening.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Or what if I am a creeper, I shouldn't kind of surreptitiously or leave

00:53:16 ◼   ► or hide my phone in a room and have it listen and transcribe or

00:53:22 ◼   ► summarize conversations when I'm not there.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Right.

00:53:26 ◼   ► And your watch won't do that either because for you to leave your watch

00:53:30 ◼   ► in a room or put it in a desk drawer or whatever and try

00:53:33 ◼   ► to do that, if the watch is off your wrist, it won't do any

00:53:37 ◼   ► of these things.

00:53:38 ◼   ► It's only when it's on your wrist.

00:53:40 ◼   ► So I think that's a little bit more thoughtful than people are who whose

00:53:44 ◼   ► knee jerk reaction is, Oh, this is creepy and perverted and whatever are thinking.

00:53:49 ◼   ► And that's the point.

00:53:51 ◼   ► My comparison is to air tags, right?

00:53:53 ◼   ► Everybody when Apple announced AirTags is like, oh, I don't know if anybody should

00:53:56 ◼   ► make this this device.

00:53:58 ◼   ► That technology was coming one way or the other.

00:54:01 ◼   ► And it would be better it was better for Apple to come out with

00:54:03 ◼   ► a privacy minded version than for some other company to come out with one

00:54:08 ◼   ► that didn't have any of the privacy controls.

00:54:10 ◼   ► And AI transcription listening devices are they're here already, but they're going to be

00:54:17 ◼   ► everywhere soon.

00:54:18 ◼   ► And so and whether that's good or bad, it's irrelevant.

00:54:22 ◼   ► They are coming, whether Apple shipped them or not, or and whether Apple could

00:54:26 ◼   ► cancel the watch features and say, you know what, we heard, we listened, we're

00:54:30 ◼   ► gonna postpone these features for a year and maybe they they save for a

00:54:34 ◼   ► year and it never comes back.

00:54:35 ◼   ► They're still coming.

00:54:36 ◼   ► They're just gonna come from other companies.

00:54:38 ◼   ► And I think that's gonna be worse.

00:54:40 ◼   ► That's

00:54:41 ◼   ► Apple being able to kind of lead the way and set the example of

00:54:45 ◼   ► here's the proper way to do this.

00:54:46 ◼   ► And that was a good point you made because even if I can unlock

00:54:50 ◼   ► my phone and I can hand it to you, unlocked, and then you can

00:54:55 ◼   ► continue using it, I can't unlock my watch and then hand it to you.

00:55:00 ◼   ► No.

00:55:00 ◼   ► Even if I wanted to.

00:55:02 ◼   ► The second it comes off.

00:55:03 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:03 ◼   ► The second it comes off your wrist, it is no it locks itself.

00:55:06 ◼   ► So I have to unlock it for you and put it there's no way

00:55:09 ◼   ► to transfer it in the unlocked state from one person to another

00:55:14 ◼   ► which goes along with the point you just made that it really is the

00:55:18 ◼   ► when it comes to a trusted state of any device that you have, that

00:55:22 ◼   ► that would be the one that you would know.

00:55:26 ◼   ► It's on that person.

00:55:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:29 ◼   ► And it's like people aren't thinking about this, but the watch has had the

00:55:32 ◼   ► voice memos app for years.

00:55:34 ◼   ► I don't even know how many years.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Right?

00:55:37 ◼   ► And you could like if you have the ultra, you can just like set

00:55:39 ◼   ► it to the action button, right?

00:55:41 ◼   ► And you could just have the action button start a recording.

00:55:44 ◼   ► And so anybody, especially if they're wearing long sleeves and can cover the watch,

00:55:49 ◼   ► their watch might be voice memoing right now.

00:55:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:52 ◼   ► And the phone too.

00:55:53 ◼   ► The phone is had it for and it does a transcription of everything and

00:55:56 ◼   ► you can put your phone face down.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:58 ◼   ► So

00:56:00 ◼   ► you know, in the media nobody carries dedicated voice recorders anymore.

00:56:04 ◼   ► Whenever there's like an on the record briefing or a meeting or something like

00:56:07 ◼   ► that.

00:56:08 ◼   ► Everybody just puts their phones out and points 'em towards the person who's being

00:56:12 ◼   ► recorded and it's just a tabletop full of r reporters' phones all recording.

00:56:17 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:56:18 ◼   ► You have no idea if somebody's If it's not on the tabletop or it's

00:56:22 ◼   ► face down and you can't see the screen, you have no idea whose phone

00:56:25 ◼   ► is recording.

00:56:26 ◼   ► And and that's not putting all of everybody's concerns to rest, right?

00:56:30 ◼   ► But I'm saying the idea that they've introduced the ability for the watch to

00:56:35 ◼   ► record and transcribe is that's the wrong way to think about it.

00:56:39 ◼   ► That's been here for years.

00:56:40 ◼   ► These new features.

00:56:42 ◼   ► And I they're parsing Apple is parsing words a little, but I see the

00:56:47 ◼   ► point.

00:56:47 ◼   ► And I do think And I think they could have done a better job

00:56:50 ◼   ► explaining it technically.

00:56:51 ◼   ► When they say with the live rewind, what's it is that what it's called?

00:56:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:56 ◼   ► Fifteen second one.

00:56:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:56:58 ◼   ► And they say that it doesn't record.

00:57:00 ◼   ► But it's like, well, if it doesn't record, how in the world does it

00:57:03 ◼   ► go back fifteen seconds to get a transcript?

00:57:05 ◼   ► And I think that the techni I think I don't know this, nobody at

00:57:09 ◼   ► Apple has confirmed it, but I think it's effectively in a buffer and it's

00:57:13 ◼   ► never it never touches permanent storage in the device.

00:57:18 ◼   ► Correct.

00:57:18 ◼   ► And that buffer is in the secure enclave.

00:57:22 ◼   ► Exclave.

00:57:22 ◼   ► Exclave.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Yeah, or whatever they call it.

00:57:28 ◼   ► Because the s the secure enclave is on is in an area that can

00:57:33 ◼   ► be accessed.

00:57:33 ◼   ► So the exclave is like it's totally outside of everything.

00:57:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:38 ◼   ► So it never touches permanent storage, even a bite of it.

00:57:42 ◼   ► And it's only in what's effectively RAM, like if the watch powers down, it's

00:57:47 ◼   ► gone.

00:57:47 ◼   ► And there's only fifteen seconds worth of buffer space for it in the secure

00:57:51 ◼   ► exclave.

00:57:52 ◼   ► And because it's a secure exclave, no app on the system or rogue app

00:57:58 ◼   ► could be like if you figured out a way to a super common way

00:58:03 ◼   ► to for these exploits is you send somebody an iMessage that's malformed and it's

00:58:09 ◼   ► got like an image that triggers a bug in the the JPEG parser and

00:58:14 ◼   ► now you've overwritten memory.

00:58:16 ◼   ► And I know that Apple has spent years sandboxing the image, but that that

00:58:19 ◼   ► has been a traditional path to a zero day.

00:58:22 ◼   ► You send somebody a bad I formatted I message, corrupts memory.

00:58:27 ◼   ► Nothing that could happen there can ever poke through the secure exclave.

00:58:31 ◼   ► Yes.

00:58:31 ◼   ► So correct it still can't get the last fifteen seconds of audio.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Even though if it could get it, which it can't, it would only be

00:58:38 ◼   ► fifteen seconds anyway.

00:58:39 ◼   ► So it really is kind of secure.

00:58:42 ◼   ► It's that feature in particular, to me, uh once you really think about it,

00:58:47 ◼   ► I can't see any reason to object to it other than the fact that

00:58:50 ◼   ► I feel like fifteen seconds is probably too short.

00:58:53 ◼   ► So it's sort of not that people worried that it's a privacy invasion, it's

00:58:58 ◼   ► that I'm not quite sure that the times when I n might need that.

00:59:02 ◼   ► 'Cause you g I'd have to add for me at least three or four

00:59:05 ◼   ► seconds of remembering, oh, I could I can double click this on my watch.

00:59:09 ◼   ► I've already seconds by remembering to go back, so I'm only getting ten or

00:59:13 ◼   ► eleven seconds.

00:59:14 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:15 ◼   ► And I asked them too, is it fifteen seconds of because it's meant for

00:59:19 ◼   ► spoken word.

00:59:19 ◼   ► So I was like, is it the last fifteen meg seconds of spoken word

00:59:23 ◼   ► that I heard?

00:59:23 ◼   ► Or is it fifteen seconds of real time?

00:59:25 ◼   ► So in other words, if you said something to me 14 seconds ago, will

00:59:29 ◼   ► I only hear one second of that and then fifteen seconds and then fourteen

00:59:32 ◼   ► seconds of dead air?

00:59:33 ◼   ► And the answer was yes.

00:59:34 ◼   ► It was it's just fifteen seconds of time passing.

00:59:37 ◼   ► So it really isn't just saving anything.

00:59:40 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:40 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:41 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:41 ◼   ► That is a good that's a very good question.

00:59:42 ◼   ► I didn't think about that.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Somebody who's talking slowly and pausing between answers.

00:59:47 ◼   ► You don't have thirty seconds of time for fifteen seconds of text.

00:59:50 ◼   ► You get fifteen seconds, period.

00:59:52 ◼   ► And the other thing with the other feature, the what are they calling the

00:59:55 ◼   ► one with the transcripts?

00:59:57 ◼   ► I forget the name, but someone that summarizes it summari it listens and summarizes

01:00:02 ◼   ► the portion of the day that you have it enabled.

01:00:06 ◼   ► Right.

01:00:06 ◼   ► And but it will also not summarize what it considers to be sensitive conversation.

01:00:15 ◼   ► Whatever that means.

01:00:15 ◼   ► They didn't Yeah, and it's like I am I'm the the the Joanna Stern

01:00:21 ◼   ► in me that's trying to think of the most absurd way to test features

01:00:27 ◼   ► is already thinking like what kind of pretend conversation could I have to see

01:00:33 ◼   ► if it'll summarize it that is completely inappropriate or will it record if I

01:00:38 ◼   ► pretend to talk about a medical crisis, is that what it considers to But

01:00:44 ◼   ► I don't know if it's wouldn't you want if you're talking to a doctor?

01:00:47 ◼   ► Like that the one thing I've heard from multiple people is they would love

01:00:51 ◼   ► to have this for times that they go to talk to a doctor and

01:00:53 ◼   ► it's like even if you're not having a crisis per se, it's like what

01:00:57 ◼   ► the hell was my doctor saying about the it was like the they were

01:01:00 ◼   ► talking about my blood work and they said some number was not a problem

01:01:04 ◼   ► and I don't need medication but it was like just above the point where

01:01:08 ◼   ► maybe they would prescribe medication and I forget what the number was.

01:01:12 ◼   ► And it's like I would love to get a a transcript of that so

01:01:15 ◼   ► I could remember exactly what it was.

01:01:17 ◼   ► And yes, you can just call your doctor and say that, but I who

01:01:19 ◼   ► does that, right right.

01:01:22 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:01:23 ◼   ► And what if you and I have a conversation where we pretend to be

01:01:26 ◼   ► talking about robbing a bank?

01:01:28 ◼   ► Right.

01:01:28 ◼   ► Or or if you and I are having an argument.

01:01:30 ◼   ► Is that what it would be like what's sensitive?

01:01:32 ◼   ► It's Yeah.

01:01:34 ◼   ► We have to see it in action because I really do wonder

01:01:37 ◼   ► if you're meeting with your doctor, you want accurate I don't know how much

01:01:41 ◼   ► of a I want a summary, but I want a transcript.

01:01:44 ◼   ► And it's like giving you a transcript.

01:01:46 ◼   ► So

01:01:47 ◼   ► Yeah, how detailed is that summary?

01:01:49 ◼   ► Where does it c how yeah, exactly.

01:01:51 ◼   ► How useful is the summary when you can't refer to well, let me see

01:01:56 ◼   ► what exactly the doctor said when they were talking about this section.

01:02:00 ◼   ► So I'm curious.

01:02:01 ◼   ► Yeah, and so I I think it's a great idea.

01:02:04 ◼   ► I think Apple is in a good position to be the ones to sort

01:02:08 ◼   ► of start introducing features like this into daily life and make people comfortable with

01:02:13 ◼   ► it.

01:02:14 ◼   ► I d my my concerns aren't that this is not private.

01:02:19 ◼   ► I think it is I think Apple is it's as far as I can

01:02:22 ◼   ► tell, they have thought through all the actual privacy issues.

01:02:25 ◼   ► So I think it actually is private.

01:02:27 ◼   ► But that doesn't mean most people will perceive it as private, right?

01:02:32 ◼   ► It's the perception that matters.

01:02:35 ◼   ► And honestly, that just going back to the Antena Gate thing, that was honestly

01:02:40 ◼   ► the whole thing with in hindsight.

01:02:41 ◼   ► Clearly that was the problem with the antenna gate.

01:02:44 ◼   ► The iPhone four did not have a fundamental flaw with the antenna.

01:02:48 ◼   ► It had a minor flaw with the antenna.

01:02:50 ◼   ► And it it really was only evident in a situation with low signal strength

01:02:57 ◼   ► to begin with.

01:02:58 ◼   ► Low signal strength plus quote unquote holding it the wrong way and it would

01:03:03 ◼   ► drop from low but usable to lost signal.

01:03:08 ◼   ► But it was the perception that had them call us call call me from

01:03:13 ◼   ► across the country to hold a press conference to address it, because the perception

01:03:17 ◼   ► was they just released a fancy new phone and it can't make a phone

01:03:20 ◼   ► call.

01:03:21 ◼   ► And that perception matters.

01:03:24 ◼   ► And if Apple released a new feature that transcribes meetings throughout your day or

01:03:30 ◼   ► conversations throughout your day and gives you a useful AI summary of them at

01:03:34 ◼   ► the end of the day, and it really is private and thoughtful.

01:03:38 ◼   ► But the perception is anybody wearing an Apple Watch is listening to you and

01:03:42 ◼   ► recording everything you say to them while they're wearing the watch.

01:03:45 ◼   ► That's a problem.

01:03:46 ◼   ► That is a problem.

01:03:47 ◼   ► But again, you already kind of solved for that with the fact that voice

01:03:52 ◼   ► recording has been something on the watch and the phone for years and this

01:03:58 ◼   ► is doing less than that.

01:03:59 ◼   ► This is just summarizing.

01:04:01 ◼   ► And so it's not recorded.

01:04:03 ◼   ► It's weird, but there was no backlash when the voice recorder was added.

01:04:07 ◼   ► But the backlash

01:04:09 ◼   ► because of AI.

01:04:10 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:10 ◼   ► You can have a five year old Apple Watch right now that is way

01:04:14 ◼   ► more privacy invasive than the brand new series twelve with this feature once the

01:04:18 ◼   ► feature comes out.

01:04:19 ◼   ► But the other thing too is one of those things is every Apple Watch

01:04:22 ◼   ► from more than three or four feet away looks the same, right?

01:04:25 ◼   ► It or at least looks like the the same generation.

01:04:28 ◼   ► It looks like an Apple Watch.

01:04:29 ◼   ► So if everybody starts thinking I don't think it's gonna happen, and I think

01:04:33 ◼   ► cameras are different, and I think that's why came out with the glasses that

01:04:37 ◼   ► don't have cameras, period.

01:04:39 ◼   ► I think as as much as people stood up at attention with this whole

01:04:44 ◼   ► feature when it was announced in the keynote, the fact that it's just recording

01:04:48 ◼   ► audio doesn't trigger the same reaction in people that cameras do, right?

01:04:54 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:55 ◼   ► But I also think there's the Apple has the I don't wanna say I

01:05:00 ◼   ► think it's well earned.

01:05:01 ◼   ► Their reputation of privacy is well earned.

01:05:04 ◼   ► But I think

01:05:05 ◼   ► there's a sense within the company

01:05:09 ◼   ► that they think everybody knows this.

01:05:14 ◼   ► Yes.

01:05:14 ◼   ► Whereas Andrew.

01:05:16 ◼   ► Yes.

01:05:16 ◼   ► You know what I'm saying?

01:05:17 ◼   ► If we just say, hey, we have this feature and it's private, we don't

01:05:20 ◼   ► have to say anything more than that.

01:05:21 ◼   ► We just put the Apple logo with the little lock and thing at the

01:05:24 ◼   ► top and right.

01:05:25 ◼   ► But I think a lot of people just don't believe big tech.

01:05:30 ◼   ► And they think ever they think your iPhone listens to you all day and

01:05:34 ◼   ► puts ads in front of you and that that's the perception.

01:05:38 ◼   ► Whether it's true or not, that's perception.

01:05:39 ◼   ► So you have to go in with, okay, here's what the average person thinks.

01:05:43 ◼   ► We need to be more explanatory.

01:05:45 ◼   ► Almost the way Steve Jobs said a long time ago about privacy.

01:05:48 ◼   ► Tell people what you're doing tell and then tell them again and then tell

01:05:50 ◼   ► 'em again.

01:05:51 ◼   ► Right?

01:05:51 ◼   ► Be super clear about it.

01:05:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:53 ◼   ► Versus we've earned this reputation, we don't say much about it.

01:05:57 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think part of that I don't think it's cockiness, but I

01:06:00 ◼   ► do think it is the fact that it people at Apple, some of the

01:06:05 ◼   ► people in the product marketing who I talk to about the watch, I've been

01:06:08 ◼   ► talking to since the first watch.

01:06:10 ◼   ► It's not just that they've been at Apple that long, but I know people

01:06:13 ◼   ► who've been working on Apple Watch now for twelve generations.

01:06:17 ◼   ► And they get used to it and they know the focus the hyper vigilant

01:06:22 ◼   ► focus they have on privacy at the company.

01:06:25 ◼   ► And they know that everybody else they work with at Apple has that same

01:06:30 ◼   ► hyper vigilant focus on privacy.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And everybody knows that people at other companies have less of a focus on

01:06:39 ◼   ► privacy, right?

01:06:40 ◼   ► And but I think what app people at Apple from being in st in

01:06:45 ◼   ► Apple for so long and thinking and knowing in their bones that Apple is

01:06:49 ◼   ► a different company with a different priority of or different order of priorities compared

01:06:55 ◼   ► to other companies, they completely lose track of what you were saying, which is

01:06:59 ◼   ► that in the real world, regular people they know the difference between Apple and

01:07:03 ◼   ► Meta and Google and Amazon, but they think they're all in cahoots together and

01:07:08 ◼   ► that the same people who are at Google today are probably working at Apple

01:07:12 ◼   ► next year and then they're working at Meta the year after that and then

01:07:15 ◼   ► they're working at Amazon and then they're back to Google and they're just they're

01:07:19 ◼   ► all the same and they all do the same things and they're all listening.

01:07:23 ◼   ► They that's ha that is how people think.

01:07:25 ◼   ► It really is.

01:07:27 ◼   ► If they think your Facebook app or your Instagram app is showing you ads

01:07:32 ◼   ► based on something you just talked about, your iPhone is right.

01:07:35 ◼   ► It's your iPhone that's listening to you.

01:07:38 ◼   ► Yes.

01:07:38 ◼   ► And so they just see it as it's one big

01:07:43 ◼   ► industry that's just slurping up all your data.

01:07:46 ◼   ► Yeah and it's the industry.

01:07:48 ◼   ► Right.

01:07:48 ◼   ► At the same time, Apple probably better than any other company.

01:07:52 ◼   ► It probably is part of what makes Apple Apple and makes Apple

01:07:56 ◼   ► more worthy of attention in my book is that they're more aware.

01:08:01 ◼   ► They're not just aware in a scornful way, like, oh, you're a dummy, so

01:08:07 ◼   ► we're gonna make a product for you as a dummy.

01:08:10 ◼   ► They they it's with respect that they're like, You're we're gonna treat you as

01:08:15 ◼   ► an intelligent person and we just but we know that you don't know anything

01:08:19 ◼   ► about how computers work and you shouldn't need to.

01:08:23 ◼   ► You've got your own life and your own interest and if you would like

01:08:25 ◼   ► to learn about how computers work, that's great.

01:08:27 ◼   ► We that's everybody here at Apple did.

01:08:30 ◼   ► But if your interest is somewhere else you shouldn't have to know how this

01:08:34 ◼   ► works, but we're still gonna make a product that respects your intelligence and is

01:08:40 ◼   ► design will do all the hard work at their best with their best products

01:08:44 ◼   ► and they pull it off.

01:08:45 ◼   ► But they even with their worst products that don't it's what they were trying

01:08:49 ◼   ► for is to present to the user an experience that doesn't make them understand

01:08:53 ◼   ► how it works.

01:08:55 ◼   ► But at the same time that Apple is aware of that, they don't really

01:08:58 ◼   ► think about it from the other side that if they don't understand how it

01:09:00 ◼   ► works that you cannot e explain in technical detail how it's not possible for

01:09:07 ◼   ► Instagram to listen to you because the secure I think it's this time the

01:09:12 ◼   ► secure enclave makes sure that the green light goes on if the microphone is

01:09:17 ◼   ► on.

01:09:17 ◼   ► There's no

01:09:19 ◼   ► your battery will be destroyed if everything that you Yes.

01:09:24 ◼   ► I've had this conversation with extended family members multiple times.

01:09:27 ◼   ► And they enjoy it.

01:09:28 ◼   ► And I think I explain it to them well.

01:09:30 ◼   ► And they it's the best sense they've ever gotten of what I do and

01:09:34 ◼   ► maybe what what has given me a career.

01:09:37 ◼   ► But like I've said, the scariest part isn't Like when they talk, and again,

01:09:42 ◼   ► it comes up at family gatherings.

01:09:43 ◼   ► I'm guessing it's happened to you.

01:09:45 ◼   ► I'm just about anybody who listens to this show or watches any of your

01:09:50 ◼   ► videos, is you know your family members think the phones listen to you.

01:09:53 ◼   ► And what I've said is As creepy as that would be if your phone

01:09:57 ◼   ► was just listening to the conversations you were having about it and then using

01:10:00 ◼   ► the transcription of those conversations to then serve you ads, that would be incredibly

01:10:06 ◼   ► inefficient.

01:10:07 ◼   ► And what they're actually doing is so complicated.

01:10:10 ◼   ► That it's actually creepier, but it's not listening to you.

01:10:14 ◼   ► It isn't listening to you.

01:10:16 ◼   ► But by what right.

01:10:18 ◼   ► By what you do when you go to the website where you buy root

01:10:24 ◼   ► beer.

01:10:25 ◼   ► You love some edgy little independent brand of root beer and you go there

01:10:29 ◼   ► and you buy it, but they put pixels on the site from a thousand

01:10:33 ◼   ► partners, including Facebook.

01:10:36 ◼   ► And then Facebook picks it up from that and then And that they know

01:10:40 ◼   ► that people who like root beer and who also watch this movie, there is

01:10:44 ◼   ► a c for whatever reason, people who are interested in rewatching the Matrix trilogy

01:10:50 ◼   ► over and over again and who buy craft cane sugar root beer

01:10:55 ◼   ► also really I don't they don't they have no idea why, but there is

01:10:59 ◼   ► a very strong correlation to wanting to buy uh Japanese blue jeans.

01:11:03 ◼   ► And they're gonna show you an ad for Japanese blue jeans.

01:11:06 ◼   ► And sometimes something weird like that's gonna happen.

01:11:09 ◼   ► You're like, I don't know how this happened.

01:11:11 ◼   ► I just told m my wife that I was thinking about getting these goddamn

01:11:14 ◼   ► Japanese blue jeans.

01:11:15 ◼   ► And th the son of a the thing must be listening to me.

01:11:18 ◼   ► And it's not.

01:11:19 ◼   ► It's actually creepier and more complex, but it's not listening to you.

01:11:23 ◼   ► And you can explain to them that it is technically impossible to turn the

01:11:27 ◼   ► microphone on without that light coming on and if y and that if y

01:11:30 ◼   ► even somebody who opened the phone and tried to disconnect the light, the microphone

01:11:35 ◼   ► would stop working.

01:11:36 ◼   ► It really is uh it's cryptographically uh guaranteed.

01:11:40 ◼   ► It's like the Farside cartoon where the guy's yelling at his dog to saying

01:11:44 ◼   ► and all the dog hears is blah blah blah blah ginger, blah blah blah

01:11:48 ◼   ► blah ginger.

01:11:49 ◼   ► All they hear when you explain it is blah blah blah blah iPhone blah

01:11:53 ◼   ► blah blah blah listening.

01:11:56 ◼   ► That's it.

01:11:56 ◼   ► Or or what they hear is oh you are brainwashed by your own industry.

01:12:02 ◼   ► We really know how they're obviously listening to us, right?

01:12:04 ◼   ► So I think we're wrong.

01:12:05 ◼   ► We oh, you're just gullible.

01:12:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:07 ◼   ► So what I have found works in that regard is by saying that what

01:12:11 ◼   ► they actually do is creepier.

01:12:14 ◼   ► If you understood it and that I barely understand it, but that it is

01:12:18 ◼   ► creepier, that's what resonates.

01:12:20 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm not saying, hey, the whole tech industry is on your side and

01:12:24 ◼   ► doesn't creepy things.

01:12:26 ◼   ► Right.

01:12:26 ◼   ► You're saying it's actually worse than what you think.

01:12:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:29 ◼   ► Right.

01:12:29 ◼   ► And if you talk to people who work in the ad tech industry, they

01:12:33 ◼   ► honest to God, if they could have recordings of what you talk about all

01:12:37 ◼   ► day, they wouldn't.

01:12:38 ◼   ► They're like, We don't need that.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Do you know how much work that would be?

01:12:40 ◼   ► You know how much space that would take up?

01:12:42 ◼   ► Why would we want that?

01:12:44 ◼   ► We don't need that.

01:12:45 ◼   ► It would be the least efficient way to serve you targeted ads.

01:12:49 ◼   ► It's it but that's the world Apple's up against.

01:12:52 ◼   ► Apple doesn't do it, but that's the world people people are in.

01:12:57 ◼   ► The other thing I want us before we move on from Apple Watch, the

01:13:01 ◼   ► other thing that I'm wondering about with these features is I'm just honestly wondering

01:13:05 ◼   ► how well they'll work at a technical level.

01:13:08 ◼   ► Because I do think Siri AI is very good on the phone and on

01:13:13 ◼   ► the Mac.

01:13:14 ◼   ► And I do think that w their plan they announced at WWDC totally works.

01:13:19 ◼   ► I think it is a step change forward.

01:13:21 ◼   ► They have cut up to baseline modern L L M.

01:13:27 ◼   ► That's the bar.

01:13:28 ◼   ► Right?

01:13:28 ◼   ► It's not anywhere close to the frontier.

01:13:30 ◼   ► It is not gonna blow anything away that you're if you're used to the

01:13:34 ◼   ► leading edge models from ChatGPT and Claude and they never said it was, right?

01:13:39 ◼   ► It does what they said and it is baseline competent and can answer amazingly

01:13:45 ◼   ► interesting questions based on your email and your iMessages and your Apple notes and

01:13:51 ◼   ► whatever other apps publish their data in a way that can be indexed.

01:13:55 ◼   ► And you can just ask questions like, hey, what was the serial number of

01:13:58 ◼   ► my iPhone series iPhone 16 that I bought two years ago because I want

01:14:02 ◼   ► to get the refund from Apple's AI refund thing and it'll just tell you

01:14:05 ◼   ► your serial number if it's in your email.

01:14:07 ◼   ► That stuff works.

01:14:09 ◼   ► I don't think Siri just regular Siri works very well on Apple Watch.

01:14:13 ◼   ► Any I still don't think it does.

01:14:15 ◼   ► It is slow.

01:14:16 ◼   ► I don't think you can have conversations.

01:14:20 ◼   ► It does not seem to me to be a good AI device just for

01:14:24 ◼   ► regular Siri, and yet now they're saying in it which so it the watch

01:14:29 ◼   ► still hasn't, in my experience.

01:14:33 ◼   ► And they're saying it's gonna give me daily summaries of every conversation I've had

01:14:36 ◼   ► that is that it but only the interesting ones.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Right.

01:14:40 ◼   ► So it puts your summaries into the Siri AI app.

01:14:45 ◼   ► So you can open your phone and see.

01:14:47 ◼   ► So I guess I'm I didn't ask this question, but I'm curious.

01:14:50 ◼   ► Is the phone doing any of this work?

01:14:53 ◼   ► Or is it just

01:14:56 ◼   ► I think the phone must be doing the transcription, but they don't talk about

01:14:59 ◼   ► that.

01:14:59 ◼   ► They don't explain it.

01:15:00 ◼   ► I think they should.

01:15:01 ◼   ► I think they should draw a diagram honest to God, Ed Like the diagrams

01:15:04 ◼   ► from W D C, right?

01:15:06 ◼   ► Yeah, like dub dub dub D C or the way that like I remember

01:15:10 ◼   ► Phil Schiller doing one with one of the iPhone cameras where they talked about

01:15:13 ◼   ► the focus pixels on the sensor.

01:15:15 ◼   ► And he was like this might be a lot of detail for this type

01:15:18 ◼   ► of event, but I love this stuff and I think you want to know

01:15:20 ◼   ► it.

01:15:20 ◼   ► And uh He spent like two minutes talking about a a new sensor technology

01:15:24 ◼   ► that let them get a sharper image.

01:15:27 ◼   ► I give us some diagrams of how this works.

01:15:29 ◼   ► But I don't know.

01:15:30 ◼   ► I'm just show me when it I'll believe it when I see it that

01:15:33 ◼   ► this works well.

01:15:34 ◼   ► Right, right.

01:15:35 ◼   ► That's a good point.

01:15:36 ◼   ► I do agree.

01:15:36 ◼   ► Siri i is so much better, but I have you not seen any regressions

01:15:41 ◼   ► in any i any areas?

01:15:43 ◼   ► Like in recent weeks?

01:15:46 ◼   ► Yeah, like I guess for me the two regressions is if you ask it

01:15:51 ◼   ► something that old Siri was good at, turn this light on, right?

01:15:55 ◼   ► Uh old Siri would turn it on within a second or half a second.

01:15:59 ◼   ► And new Siri has to it's almost like are you setting this to the

01:16:02 ◼   ► cloud?

01:16:02 ◼   ► Like what are you doing?

01:16:04 ◼   ► Private cloud compute.

01:16:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:05 ◼   ► And the other one was a specific use case that I would use often

01:16:09 ◼   ► is if I know I have a password in my password manager app, say

01:16:15 ◼   ► Google Password or Samsung, whatever.

01:16:17 ◼   ► Old Siri, I can say what's my Google password?

01:16:19 ◼   ► Because I want to copy and paste it into a website or try to

01:16:21 ◼   ► log it.

01:16:22 ◼   ► What's my Google password?

01:16:22 ◼   ► It'll and it'll open the passwords app to the Google password.

01:16:26 ◼   ► So I can literally just tap and copy it instantly.

01:16:29 ◼   ► And now it's like, oh I don't know what that is.

01:16:30 ◼   ► Why are you asking me?

01:16:31 ◼   ► Uh this is something that Old Cree was an expert at.

01:16:34 ◼   ► Right.

01:16:35 ◼   ► Right, because they probably put passwords on a list of, hey, don't touch this

01:16:39 ◼   ► app, right?

01:16:39 ◼   ► It's sort of like the whole problem with the journal app.

01:16:42 ◼   ► I I'm fascinated by the journal app even though every single step of the

01:16:46 ◼   ► way and every single word I've ever typed into the Apple journal app, I've

01:16:50 ◼   ► thought this is a bad idea to put anything I care about into this

01:16:54 ◼   ► app because this is not a good app.

01:16:57 ◼   ► But I like the idea of it.

01:16:58 ◼   ► I like the presentation of your journal entries as sort of a personal social

01:17:02 ◼   ► feed rather than a three panel thing like the actual notes app.

01:17:08 ◼   ► But Apple Journal is not indexed by the new Siri AI thing because it's

01:17:13 ◼   ► like, oh, that's because it's

01:17:15 ◼   ► maybe that's what some people want.

01:17:17 ◼   ► I would like everything I put in the app to be indexed by Siri,

01:17:21 ◼   ► right?

01:17:21 ◼   ► I everything on my phone.

01:17:22 ◼   ► There's nothing on my phone that I don't want Siri to index.

01:17:26 ◼   ► I would like it to see the passwords.

01:17:29 ◼   ► But I think they don't want to s I think it's 'cause they don't

01:17:31 ◼   ► spook people.

01:17:32 ◼   ► They don't want to spook they're like, oh, Siri never looks inside your journal.

01:17:35 ◼   ► Maybe it will eventually, right?

01:17:37 ◼   ► And right now it doesn't have access to health right?

01:17:39 ◼   ► That's the big new thing coming out and the health update that's in beta

01:17:44 ◼   ► right now is re re architecting the health app.

01:17:48 ◼   ► And maybe it's like they're double crossing the T's and double dotting the I's

01:17:52 ◼   ► just to make sure

01:17:54 ◼   ► that everything Siri does related to your information and health is by the book.

01:17:59 ◼   ► When that when you say, Hey, what's the door code for my garage?

01:18:04 ◼   ► I forget, and it's gonna say your blood pressure was one forty one over

01:18:08 ◼   ► and it's like what that's not what are you talking about?

01:18:10 ◼   ► How are you s you're not supposed to say that out loud?

01:18:13 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:18:14 ◼   ► But it's I just don't want to see new series not able to do

01:18:17 ◼   ► stuff that old series could do.

01:18:19 ◼   ► The bad series can do this.

01:18:20 ◼   ► The slowness is a real thing and I think it's because you say stuff

01:18:23 ◼   ► and it's like, oh I know you're talking to me.

01:18:25 ◼   ► And it's like it does so much more process.

01:18:28 ◼   ► So when you do ask it a complex thing and it does take a

01:18:31 ◼   ► few seconds to chew on it and you're like, I'll give you a few

01:18:35 ◼   ► seconds to find the serial number to a phone I bought two years ago.

01:18:38 ◼   ► Sure.

01:18:38 ◼   ► Right.

01:18:39 ◼   ► But when you say turn the lights on in the kitchen

01:18:42 ◼   ► you don't you shouldn't need to Exactly.

01:18:44 ◼   ► What are we waiting for?

01:18:45 ◼   ► And I think what's happening I don't know, I'd have to guess.

01:18:49 ◼   ► I don't know I just feel like it doesn't even determine that it's a

01:18:53 ◼   ► simple request until it's done something more complex to make sure it's not more

01:18:59 ◼   ► complex.

01:19:00 ◼   ► But then the truth is now it takes five seconds to turn the lights

01:19:03 ◼   ► on and off.

01:19:04 ◼   ► And that's always I think old Siri was still slow compared to Alexa.

01:19:08 ◼   ► We actually had an Alexa in our kitchen for years just because it was

01:19:13 ◼   ► instant, right?

01:19:14 ◼   ► And I'd I put I always every year I always had the I think

01:19:17 ◼   ► I still do actually.

01:19:17 ◼   ► I think I put the Alexa I plug it back in when we have

01:19:19 ◼   ► Christmas trees.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Because b my wife likes to have multiple Christmas trees throughout the house and

01:19:24 ◼   ► plug them in with an Alexa power adapter and you tell Alexa to turn

01:19:30 ◼   ► them off and it is like hitting a light switch.

01:19:33 ◼   ► It is before the word is out of your mouth, they're on or they're

01:19:36 ◼   ► off.

01:19:37 ◼   ► And which is exactly what you want.

01:19:39 ◼   ► And with Siri, yeah, not so much.

01:19:41 ◼   ► But overall it's good.

01:19:42 ◼   ► I think there I also I was wondering if this is what you're talking

01:19:45 ◼   ► about.

01:19:46 ◼   ► I also think that as the beta has turned into release and now the

01:19:50 ◼   ► world is using it, it seems a little worse than it did over summer.

01:19:55 ◼   ► I bet that could totally just be my own personal anecdot.

01:19:59 ◼   ► I asked a question, I forget what it was.

01:20:01 ◼   ► It is so good to and I know people who are you you have

01:20:04 ◼   ► all their email and Gmail uh and ask Gemini have been getting this for

01:20:09 ◼   ► for years or a while.

01:20:11 ◼   ► But asking Siri for something in my email, thousands and thousands of messages is

01:20:17 ◼   ► so much better than any search of my email I've ever had.

01:20:21 ◼   ► It's even better than the search it i in Gmail itself when you type

01:20:26 ◼   ► just a query because you can say what it was about.

01:20:29 ◼   ► Who's the person who told me the weird story about the the whatever I

01:20:35 ◼   ► don't know.

01:20:36 ◼   ► They told me a story that they saw somebody on the BART train with

01:20:40 ◼   ► a weird color iPhone and then they're like, Oh, that was so and so

01:20:43 ◼   ► who told you a story in twenty fourteen about the this and it's like,

01:20:47 ◼   ► There's the email.

01:20:48 ◼   ► That's amazing.

01:20:49 ◼   ► It really is.

01:20:50 ◼   ► But I you know, it's weird.

01:20:51 ◼   ► I don't he feel like part of the hey, now it meets the bar

01:20:55 ◼   ► for what people expect is the fact that in the real world it doesn't

01:20:59 ◼   ► seem like people are amazed, right?

01:21:01 ◼   ► It just feels like people aren't complaining.

01:21:04 ◼   ► Which is I think the best that Apple could hope for.

01:21:08 ◼   ► But I think I've also heard you talk about this too, where it's like

01:21:11 ◼   ► you're s you've been so trained to not ask Siri to do certain things

01:21:18 ◼   ► that you forget to try

01:21:21 ◼   ► doing it again because now we'll actually do it.

01:21:23 ◼   ► And we've been using this since again beta over the summer.

01:21:27 ◼   ► Everyone else has only had access to this for what a few weeks.

01:21:31 ◼   ► So there they are where we were a few months back where

01:21:36 ◼   ► they're used to it.

01:21:37 ◼   ► I really mean it.

01:21:38 ◼   ► They need an ad campaign that is the the gist of it is seriously,

01:21:43 ◼   ► try Siri again.

01:21:45 ◼   ► I s they really do.

01:21:46 ◼   ► And they're up the last of us again and this time she can actually

01:21:50 ◼   ► do series commercials that they are not gonna do that.

01:21:53 ◼   ► They're definitely not going to bring her back.

01:21:56 ◼   ► They don't remind people of that.

01:21:57 ◼   ► But what do you let's uh talk about the iPhone eighteen pro before before

01:22:02 ◼   ► moving on.

01:22:03 ◼   ► All right.

01:22:05 ◼   ► I saw one of the videos you had where you asked your audience what

01:22:08 ◼   ► people want next most in the next phone.

01:22:12 ◼   ► And I was totally unsurprised by the Clear number one answer, which was which

01:22:19 ◼   ► was battery life.

01:22:20 ◼   ► So and it was I actually did this poll two separate times.

01:22:23 ◼   ► I did a general poll just I didn't say iPhone, I just said what

01:22:26 ◼   ► your next phone, so whoever whatever phone you use, what would convince you to

01:22:30 ◼   ► upgrade and it was fifty I think it was like fifty-two percent of people

01:22:33 ◼   ► said battery.

01:22:34 ◼   ► And then the day before the iPhone event, I said, what would you want

01:22:37 ◼   ► to hear Apple announced tomorrow that would make you want to upgrade?

01:22:41 ◼   ► And again, it was over fifty percent.

01:22:43 ◼   ► Battery.

01:22:44 ◼   ► And I actually was surprised personally because I assumed if it's my audience, they

01:22:49 ◼   ► were gonna want some more whizbang, interesting, flashy feature.

01:22:55 ◼   ► But no, it was like just give me as much battery life as possible

01:22:59 ◼   ► and I'm all in.

01:23:00 ◼   ► And that's what Apple did.

01:23:01 ◼   ► That's what Apple did this year.

01:23:03 ◼   ► Yep.

01:23:04 ◼   ► And it is the simplest

01:23:08 ◼   ► bore boringest to talk about spec to improve.

01:23:12 ◼   ► It's like, oh, now the battery lasts longer.

01:23:14 ◼   ► And everybody goes, yeah, that's good.

01:23:16 ◼   ► Right.

01:23:16 ◼   ► And it's like, but tell me about that variable aperture.

01:23:18 ◼   ► How do the blades move?

01:23:20 ◼   ► How are they not fragile?

01:23:21 ◼   ► Right?

01:23:21 ◼   ► How is that and what we want to ask all these other questions about

01:23:24 ◼   ► all these other things.

01:23:26 ◼   ► And in some ways I even want to talk about the colors more.

01:23:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:23:29 ◼   ► And y what people care about is battery life.

01:23:32 ◼   ► And that's what they did.

01:23:33 ◼   ► If you look at their stats, it's weird because they came up with a

01:23:38 ◼   ► new battery.

01:23:39 ◼   ► I don't claim a use case number.

01:23:41 ◼   ► Typical use case number.

01:23:42 ◼   ► And yeah.

01:23:44 ◼   ► But they just invented it this year.

01:23:46 ◼   ► And I it's good for the future because their typical use case test, whatever

01:23:52 ◼   ► that involves, next year we'll be able to compare year over year and two

01:23:56 ◼   ► years from now.

01:23:57 ◼   ► But this year when you go to Apple dot com slash iPhone slash compare,

01:24:03 ◼   ► that typical use case number doesn't show up because there's nothing to compare it

01:24:07 ◼   ► against because there's no they didn't have that they didn't go back and run

01:24:12 ◼   ► that test with old iPhones.

01:24:13 ◼   ► Including simple to do.

01:24:15 ◼   ► Right.

01:24:16 ◼   ► Including ones that they're still selling that are still current, like the iPhone uh

01:24:21 ◼   ► seventeen regular and the iPhone seventeen E and the iPhone Air.

01:24:25 ◼   ► But they do they have video and they call it video streaming or something,

01:24:30 ◼   ► which I guess is do you have the video already on the phone or

01:24:33 ◼   ► are you d watching a Netflix video that is network pulling the video and

01:24:39 ◼   ► streaming it.

01:24:40 ◼   ► But it's a slight hit to battery life.

01:24:42 ◼   ► The iPhone 18 Pro is 15% longer.

01:24:47 ◼   ► It's like I forget the exact numbers, but it's like forty versus thirty five

01:24:53 ◼   ► hours.

01:24:53 ◼   ► Something like that.

01:24:54 ◼   ► But it both of them work out to fifteen percent longer and then the

01:24:58 ◼   ► iPhone eighteen that that's the Pro Max.

01:25:01 ◼   ► 15% longer and the pro is ten percent longer, but ten percent longer on

01:25:07 ◼   ► the eighteen.

01:25:07 ◼   ► This is my favorite stat of the year, single favorite stat

01:25:11 ◼   ► 18 pro regular now has longer battery life than last year's seventeen Pro Max.

01:25:18 ◼   ► Ten percent improvement was a Right, which is huge literally huge if you don't

01:25:23 ◼   ► like the Pro Max phones.

01:25:24 ◼   ► It was hard to kill a pro max battery seventeen pro max last year.

01:25:28 ◼   ► So Yeah.

01:25:29 ◼   ► Yep.

01:25:29 ◼   ► And that for my review, I spent most of my time with the 18

01:25:33 ◼   ► Pro Max Burgundy.

01:25:35 ◼   ► I named it Ron Burgundy in my pocket.

01:25:39 ◼   ► Just to I was like, oh, I haven't used I haven't used one of

01:25:41 ◼   ► these for a couple of years.

01:25:42 ◼   ► I should spend a week with an eighteen Pro Max.

01:25:45 ◼   ► It is huge.

01:25:46 ◼   ► I do not like it in my pocket.

01:25:48 ◼   ► I do not like it in my hand.

01:25:50 ◼   ► And the battery life

01:25:53 ◼   ► never ever f and this is while testing it and purposefully shooting more photos

01:25:57 ◼   ► and videos and stuff than usual and the battery never drops below fifty percent.

01:26:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:05 ◼   ► I'm out shooting videos with this thing like during the review period trying to,

01:26:10 ◼   ► you know, test and it's like I didn't pay attention to the days where

01:26:13 ◼   ► I was trying to keep it on the charger to get Siri to finish

01:26:16 ◼   ► indexing everything, right?

01:26:18 ◼   ► 'Cause it goes faster if you have it plugged in.

01:26:20 ◼   ► On the days where I'm using it normally, like I'm shocked that I'm ending

01:26:24 ◼   ► the day in the thirties thirty percentage area with battery life because I'm literally

01:26:29 ◼   ► morning till night using I'm traveling.

01:26:31 ◼   ► I don't have access to plugging it in.

01:26:33 ◼   ► I'm not plugging it in on purpose.

01:26:34 ◼   ► I'm shooting 4K video.

01:26:36 ◼   ► I'm shooting a bunch of pictures and it's just not dying.

01:26:39 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the spec you were looking for.

01:26:42 ◼   ► This is your year.

01:26:44 ◼   ► I have a my main iPhone profile, whatever you want to call it, when

01:26:49 ◼   ► my bet you know, and then I can back it up to iCloud and

01:26:51 ◼   ► set up a new phone and restore from the backup and get all the

01:26:54 ◼   ► apps and everything set up the way it was on my other phone.

01:26:57 ◼   ► I think it's several years now I've had a shortcuts automation where when my

01:27:02 ◼   ► battery life hits I even forget the number if it's thirty or thirty five.

01:27:07 ◼   ► I I think I de D uh used to be thirty five and now

01:27:09 ◼   ► it's thirty 'cause it I was like, I don't even need this.

01:27:12 ◼   ► But it hits thirty percent and then it turns on automatically low power mode.

01:27:17 ◼   ► Yellow thing in control center.

01:27:20 ◼   ► And with my personal iPhone seventeen pro

01:27:24 ◼   ► most days I like watching TV at right before bed, it's around eleven thirty,

01:27:30 ◼   ► midnight, I'm ready to go to bed and I look and the battery is

01:27:34 ◼   ► yellow Because it that that's kicked in and turned on.

01:27:38 ◼   ► But it's it's at thirty percent or twenty five, thirty percent.

01:27:42 ◼   ► Almost never in a whole year, no matter what I do, does it go

01:27:45 ◼   ► below twenty percent, no matter how busy I am in a day.

01:27:49 ◼   ► With and then ever since after I published my review with a week where

01:27:53 ◼   ► I s mostly use the eighteen pro Max, I've switched to the eighteen pro

01:27:57 ◼   ► review unit.

01:27:58 ◼   ► It doesn't trigger the shortcut.

01:28:00 ◼   ► It's it doesn't reach thirty or thirty five percent.

01:28:04 ◼   ► Any day.

01:28:05 ◼   ► I don't think it's it clicked once.

01:28:07 ◼   ► It's 10% by Apple Specs, but it seems, I don't know, even better than

01:28:10 ◼   ► that.

01:28:11 ◼   ► It's yeah, and this is a thing that everybody cares about.

01:28:16 ◼   ► Every single iPhone.

01:28:17 ◼   ► There are very few things that everybody cares about.

01:28:19 ◼   ► There are, oddly enough, people who do not care about the camera 'cause they

01:28:23 ◼   ► don't never take pictures.

01:28:24 ◼   ► There are people there there were people who did not care about the retina

01:28:28 ◼   ► screen.

01:28:28 ◼   ► They're like, I don't really care.

01:28:29 ◼   ► I don't see the difference.

01:28:30 ◼   ► And it's maybe that's crazy the eye doctor.

01:28:33 ◼   ► But the one thing everybody cares about is if their iPhone dies and it

01:28:37 ◼   ► doesn't work because the battery's at zero, they care.

01:28:40 ◼   ► And

01:28:41 ◼   ► it is a boring stat.

01:28:43 ◼   ► And if you improve ten to fifteen percent every year, it compounds and within

01:28:49 ◼   ► four years it's fifty percent more battery life.

01:28:52 ◼   ► And that's huge.

01:28:53 ◼   ► And if most people only upgrade every four years, they're getting a phone that

01:28:59 ◼   ► starts with fifty percent longer battery life and their old phone that they'd used

01:29:04 ◼   ► for four or five years probably had a worn out battery anyway.

01:29:07 ◼   ► And so if there's no other difference that they notice, what they notice is

01:29:12 ◼   ► my phone was dying every day by the time I went to bed and

01:29:15 ◼   ► now my phone has tons of battery life every day.

01:29:18 ◼   ► And it's a huge upgrade.

01:29:20 ◼   ► And that's all they care about.

01:29:21 ◼   ► Yeah, for them.

01:29:22 ◼   ► But yeah, especially like you said, people hold them to the phones multiple years.

01:29:25 ◼   ► Which leaves me totally unrelated, but I always thought it was funny how people

01:29:28 ◼   ► like us in the who would upgrade annually complain how lightning has been around

01:29:33 ◼   ► for so long, ten years this lightning port is going away.

01:29:36 ◼   ► Whereas the average person probably only owned two iPhones that had a lightning fork

01:29:40 ◼   ► because they you know what I mean?

01:29:41 ◼   ► So to them it was like 'cause I remember the backlash.

01:29:43 ◼   ► Why does Apple always change the port from every they always change the ports?

01:29:47 ◼   ► Yeah, two iPhones ago it was this and now it's right.

01:29:50 ◼   ► It's so funny.

01:29:51 ◼   ► It's just the different echo chambers that we're in.

01:29:56 ◼   ► The other thing that I do think that that's battery life focus has shown,

01:30:00 ◼   ► and it is kind of true, and I think it plays into the fact

01:30:04 ◼   ► that the iPhone Air has not sold well by anybody's measure.

01:30:09 ◼   ► There's apps that keep track of which phones people use and and they don't

01:30:14 ◼   ► advertise it.

01:30:15 ◼   ► It's I hope that with the iPhone Air two that's supposedly coming in spring

01:30:20 ◼   ► that they do advertise it and that adding a second camera will give it

01:30:25 ◼   ► I because I think it is a absolutely terrific device.

01:30:28 ◼   ► And I do think in my testing with it, battery life is very good.

01:30:33 ◼   ► And it is lasts all day for me.

01:30:35 ◼   ► Maybe not where thirty percent doesn't kick in, right?

01:30:38 ◼   ► It's like yeah, it's more like you kind of use the whole battery to

01:30:41 ◼   ► get through the day with the air.

01:30:43 ◼   ► But it's so nice.

01:30:44 ◼   ► But I just think common people who don't know anything about technology know that

01:30:49 ◼   ► the battery has to be smaller.

01:30:51 ◼   ► Right?

01:30:51 ◼   ► It does.

01:30:52 ◼   ► It's just common sense.

01:30:53 ◼   ► Of course.

01:30:53 ◼   ► Right?

01:30:54 ◼   ► It's like if you pick up a flashlight, like just the a basic run-of-the-mill

01:30:59 ◼   ► drugstore flashlight.

01:31:00 ◼   ► As soon as you pick it up, you know if it has the D

01:31:03 ◼   ► cell batteries in it or not, because it is it's too light.

01:31:07 ◼   ► You pick up the air and you pick up an iPhone Pro, either size,

01:31:11 ◼   ► and you just know there's

01:31:14 ◼   ► one.

01:31:15 ◼   ► And that is what people think.

01:31:16 ◼   ► They think, Well, I want this.

01:31:17 ◼   ► And for years, in that era when Johnny Ive was there and they were

01:31:21 ◼   ► making the iPhones thinner and thinner every year, leading up to I think the

01:31:25 ◼   ► thinnest ever was like iPhone 6 up until the air, which is now the

01:31:30 ◼   ► thinnest.

01:31:30 ◼   ► And now the duo, which will be the thinnest when it's unfolded.

01:31:34 ◼   ► And and there was the other gate, which is I think was actually more

01:31:39 ◼   ► of a significant gate scandal than antenna gate, bend gate, right?

01:31:45 ◼   ► Bend gate.

01:31:45 ◼   ► Oh god.

01:31:46 ◼   ► Right?

01:31:46 ◼   ► With I think it was the iPhone six.

01:31:48 ◼   ► Where if you put it in your butt pocket and sat on it, the

01:31:51 ◼   ► whole phone would bend.

01:31:52 ◼   ► And everybody was like, we've been screaming at you for years, just make the

01:31:56 ◼   ► goddamn things thicker by putting a bigger battery in 'em, because we want a

01:32:00 ◼   ► bigger battery anyway, and we'll take the the hit to weight and thickness to

01:32:05 ◼   ► have a better battery.

01:32:06 ◼   ► And and eventually Apple did listen, they started making the iPhones thicker instead of

01:32:12 ◼   ► thinner as they added cameras and camera bumps and other things and But I

01:32:17 ◼   ► think that the basic evolution and the forking of the lines and the pro

01:32:22 ◼   ► and non pro have shown that it really is true.

01:32:27 ◼   ► The people outside Apple who were yelling, just make it thicker and heavier and

01:32:32 ◼   ► put a bigger battery in it.

01:32:33 ◼   ► That's why it's so many people buy iPhone Pro models.

01:32:36 ◼   ► It really is.

01:32:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:38 ◼   ► Right?

01:32:39 ◼   ► It is.

01:32:39 ◼   ► It's even compared not just talking iPhone Air, which is ridiculously thin and is

01:32:44 ◼   ► sort of conspicuously lightweight.

01:32:46 ◼   ► I mean just compared to, hey, should I buy an iPhone Seventeen or a

01:32:52 ◼   ► seventeen pro last year.

01:32:53 ◼   ► I'm gonna get the one that looks like it has a bigger battery.

01:32:56 ◼   ► And if you look at the tech specs, it says it has more battery

01:32:59 ◼   ► life.

01:33:00 ◼   ► And I think there's a lot of people who don't care too much and

01:33:02 ◼   ► they're like, Oh, the camera's better and the screen's better and you get a

01:33:04 ◼   ► promotion display and they're like, shut up.

01:33:06 ◼   ► I just want the battery and I'll pay the ridiculous price for this.

01:33:09 ◼   ► Right.

01:33:10 ◼   ► Right.

01:33:10 ◼   ► Battery, battery, battery.

01:33:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:33:13 ◼   ► That's it.

01:33:14 ◼   ► They could have shut up.

01:33:15 ◼   ► They absolutely could have just said the battery is long life is longer.

01:33:18 ◼   ► And then John Turnis could have dropped the mic and walked off the stage.

01:33:21 ◼   ► And all these people then tech press would be like, Oh my God, this

01:33:25 ◼   ► is ridiculous.

01:33:26 ◼   ► I can't believe this guy, you know, bring back Tim Cook.

01:33:28 ◼   ► And out in the real world people would be like, Yeah, I'll buy that.

01:33:31 ◼   ► Cheering.

01:33:31 ◼   ► They mean cheering.

01:33:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:33:34 ◼   ► But I mean there there are other things about this phone though, like the

01:33:37 ◼   ► A twenty, which is sits between an M3 and an M4 in some benchmarks,

01:33:42 ◼   ► which is just absurd to carry around in your pocket, right?

01:33:47 ◼   ► And then the variable aperture camera which I don't know

01:33:52 ◼   ► maybe you have a different opinion.

01:33:53 ◼   ► I don't know that the variable aperture is such a huge deal.

01:33:57 ◼   ► I think it's more the huger deal is that the main camera now takes

01:34:02 ◼   ► in even more light

01:34:05 ◼   ► and they're okay with doing that because they can now adjust the amount of

01:34:10 ◼   ► light that comes in.

01:34:11 ◼   ► Because it would be too much it I don't think it would be appropriate

01:34:15 ◼   ► for that to be the main camera if you couldn't reduce the amount of

01:34:20 ◼   ► light that goes into it for the situations that require it.

01:34:23 ◼   ► So I think really the main feature is when that thing is wide open,

01:34:28 ◼   ► the amount of light that can get into the camera is such a big

01:34:31 ◼   ► improvement versus last year.

01:34:33 ◼   ► 50% more, which yeah results in just better photography overall.

01:34:37 ◼   ► Yeah, the way I I I remember at some point I learned how the

01:34:40 ◼   ► F stop numbers work and why they're on such a weird scale where going

01:34:47 ◼   ► from F two point eight to f four point oh is one stop and

01:34:52 ◼   ► then the next stop is f eight and it's like what?

01:34:55 ◼   ► And then you go from F one point eight to F one point four

01:35:00 ◼   ► and you're like, Whoa, well that's almost nothing, right?

01:35:02 ◼   ► And you're like, No, no, no, that's full stop.

01:35:04 ◼   ► And it's like, Oh that's double?

01:35:06 ◼   ► Oh, F one point eight to one point four?

01:35:08 ◼   ► And then you're like, Well, what about the F one point two?

01:35:11 ◼   ► That's now that's just a little and you're like, No, no, that's a five

01:35:14 ◼   ► thousand dollar lens from Canon.

01:35:15 ◼   ► Right.

01:35:16 ◼   ► The F one point two.

01:35:17 ◼   ► And it's and I've an idiot.

01:35:19 ◼   ► I fucking bought it a long time ago.

01:35:21 ◼   ► And I did love it.

01:35:22 ◼   ► But it the goddamn thing was As heavy as a brick, the fifty millimeter

01:35:26 ◼   ► F one point two lens.

01:35:27 ◼   ► It wasn't five.

01:35:28 ◼   ► It was like I don't know, fifteen hundred or two thousand dollars.

01:35:31 ◼   ► But it was a full stop difference from F one point four, which is

01:35:35 ◼   ► double the light.