ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I had been looking to see whether or not my VIN number for my

00:00:04 ◼   ► Volkswagen had been listed online for sale and it hadn't been.

00:00:07 ◼   ► I've checking every other day or so because I'm me and I like to

00:00:09 ◼   ► know these things.

00:00:09 ◼   ► Why?

00:00:09 ◼   ► Why are you stalking your ex?

00:00:11 ◼   ► Because I'm curious.

00:00:12 ◼   ► There is no good no good can come from this.

00:00:14 ◼   ► It's uh I just find it interesting and I was curious what they were

00:00:18 ◼   ► going to list it for.

00:00:19 ◼   ► And so But but how okay, there's only one way this can go.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Like they're not gonna list it for below what they paid you.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Oh of course.

00:00:27 ◼   ► So they're gonna list it for some amount of money that is above what

00:00:29 ◼   ► they paid you.

00:00:30 ◼   ► And the only thing that can possibly do is make you feel bad that

00:00:34 ◼   ► they didn't.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Well, so on paper, especially when we're talking about me, Yes.

00:00:41 ◼   ► However, however, first of all, I'm needy and I just want to know.

00:00:46 ◼   ► And second of all, I I feel like I had done the best I

00:00:51 ◼   ► could do short of a private sale, right?

00:00:53 ◼   ► I had surveyed a couple of different options.

00:00:55 ◼   ► I kinda sort of and it was my own choice, but I kind of

00:00:58 ◼   ► sort of wanted to do it with a quickness.

00:01:00 ◼   ► And I had and I had done what I thought was best for me

00:01:03 ◼   ► at the time.

00:01:03 ◼   ► And I stand by that.

00:01:04 ◼   ► Now, if I had sold it privately, I'm sure I could have gotten quite

00:01:07 ◼   ► a bit more money, but I didn't want to mess with any of that.

00:01:11 ◼   ► I have no patience for that.

00:01:13 ◼   ► I absolutely did not want to uh have somebody test drive the car, whether

00:01:18 ◼   ► or not I'm in it, but watching them like melt my clutch.

00:01:21 ◼   ► No, thank you.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Uh-uh.

00:01:22 ◼   ► So I did what I think was right for me.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:25 ◼   ► The whole reason to sell to a like a company like that is so

00:01:29 ◼   ► that it's out of your hands.

00:01:31 ◼   ► It's quick, it's done, like you're not getting the best possible price, but you're

00:01:35 ◼   ► at least like not having to deal with any of that.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:01:38 ◼   ► The last thing you should possibly then know is like, so how much profit

00:01:42 ◼   ► are they gonna make off of me?

00:01:43 ◼   ► Like there's just there's no good that comes from that.

00:01:45 ◼   ► Well, I again I think it's fascinating just because I was curious what they

00:01:50 ◼   ► would do.

00:01:50 ◼   ► And I When I sold the BMW to a local like CarMax equivalent, it

00:01:54 ◼   ► was one of those like, We'll beat CarMax prices, but they beat it by

00:01:57 ◼   ► literally a hundred fifty dollars, I believe.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Um, anyways, when I sold it to them, I forget what they listed it

00:02:03 ◼   ► for, but it was, I don't know a couple of grand more than they

00:02:05 ◼   ► paid me, which is what I expected, right?

00:02:06 ◼   ► I mean it was a relatively unremarkable three series and it was relatively high

00:02:11 ◼   ► miles and they sold it presumably for a little bit more than they paid

00:02:15 ◼   ► me.

00:02:15 ◼   ► Per makes perfect sense.

00:02:16 ◼   ► I get it.

00:02:17 ◼   ► Um so I went and at the tip of a friend of mine, I

00:02:22 ◼   ► went to see, okay, how much are they going to sell my car for?

00:02:27 ◼   ► So I I should tell you that I bought the car on the thirtieth

00:02:32 ◼   ► of August in twenty eighteen.

00:02:35 ◼   ► That is almost exactly eight years ago from when I sold it to CarMax.

00:02:39 ◼   ► I sold it on the fourteenth or fifteenth of August in twenty twenty six.

00:02:42 ◼   ► At the end of August in twenty eighteen, I paid I'm looking at the

00:02:46 ◼   ► buyer's order right now.

00:02:47 ◼   ► I paid a shade less than forty thousand dollars, right?

00:02:50 ◼   ► For this brand new 10 miles on the odometer as per the buyer's order,

00:02:54 ◼   ► uh brand new Volkswagen Golf R.

00:02:57 ◼   ► I sold it to CarMax, I think I said, what was it, 26 and

00:03:00 ◼   ► change.

00:03:00 ◼   ► I forget exactly what it was now.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Uh I sold it for 26 and change.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Uh other people had offered quite a bit less than that.

00:03:06 ◼   ► And I felt like I was doing pretty well.

00:03:08 ◼   ► And to be honest, I still do.

00:03:10 ◼   ► CarMax is listing my car for a shade less than $39,000.

00:03:18 ◼   ► I'm sorry, I lied to you a minute ago.

00:03:20 ◼   ► That was the price with taxes.

00:03:22 ◼   ► The actual purchase price, by mistake, was $39,000 was thirty seven five.

00:03:26 ◼   ► So before taxes, thirty-seven five.

00:03:28 ◼   ► It in two thousand eighteen, brand new, CarMax has it listed for a shade

00:03:32 ◼   ► less than thirty-nine thousand dollars.

00:03:34 ◼   ► This car appreciated from their point of view since I bought it.

00:03:38 ◼   ► And I find that Astonishing.

00:03:40 ◼   ► I'm actually not upset about this because I don't think they're gonna sell it

00:03:42 ◼   ► for that much.

00:03:43 ◼   ► But can you fathom?

00:03:45 ◼   ► They're selling it for more than my total purchase price in twenty eighteen.

00:03:49 ◼   ► I am shocked.

00:03:50 ◼   ► Rare cars appreciate.

00:03:52 ◼   ► I guess I didn't think it was that rare though.

00:03:54 ◼   ► I mean it's but it didn't appreciate that much.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Not like they're selling it for, you know, three hundred grand.

00:03:58 ◼   ► But yeah, rare cars appreciate.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Just ask all your nine eleven friends.

00:04:02 ◼   ► We have a couple things to announce.

00:04:04 ◼   ► First of all, there is a new ATP members special.

00:04:08 ◼   ► ATP insider show QA.

00:04:11 ◼   ► John, can you tell us about this, please?

00:04:13 ◼   ► Sure.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Uh one of the uh eternal potential topics we have for uh member specials

00:04:18 ◼   ► is like uh tell us about the history of the show or long-running gags

00:04:22 ◼   ► or whatever because a lot of people haven't listened to the whole show or

00:04:24 ◼   ► maybe if you have you don't remember everything.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Uh and we get a lot of people asking, you know, uh explain this

00:04:30 ◼   ► to me about the show.

00:04:31 ◼   ► What's the deal?

00:04:31 ◼   ► Why is it called accidental?

00:04:33 ◼   ► You know, how did you guys meet?

00:04:34 ◼   ► That type of those type of questions.

00:04:36 ◼   ► And it just so happens that we had a listener write in with a

00:04:39 ◼   ► bunch of questions.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Uh and we just went through those questions because it sort of like focused

00:04:44 ◼   ► us on instead of just doing like the entire history of the show and

00:04:46 ◼   ► everything you ever need to know about it.

00:04:47 ◼   ► We just use those questions as jumping off points with a couple of additions.

00:04:50 ◼   ► And we ended up talking about the whole history of the show and, you

00:04:54 ◼   ► know, uh how it all got started and where it went and some of

00:04:57 ◼   ► the long running gags.

00:04:58 ◼   ► And we just, you know, it's a little bit of everything.

00:05:00 ◼   ► Uh it's a little bit navel gazing, but some people uh wanna know that

00:05:03 ◼   ► stuff because we don't really explain it.

00:05:05 ◼   ► We just do it in the show.

00:05:06 ◼   ► And if you listen enough you can pick it up from like context clues,

00:05:09 ◼   ► but it's sort of hear it from the source.

00:05:10 ◼   ► And you if you're a longtime listener and you already know this stuff, I

00:05:13 ◼   ► think you'll still find stuff in the show that's interesting.

00:05:16 ◼   ► We retell stories that we've told before, but greatly expanded and it was a

00:05:19 ◼   ► lot of fun to do.

00:05:20 ◼   ► So I think it's a good member special.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

00:05:22 ◼   ► It was uh cathartic implies that like something bad had happened, but it was

00:05:26 ◼   ► very cathartic for me to like Re I I can't think of a better

00:05:30 ◼   ► word, but anyway, reconnect with you.

00:05:32 ◼   ► This all sounds terrible.

00:05:32 ◼   ► We're gonna leave it in because here we go.

00:05:34 ◼   ► But I I'm I'm making it sound like I hate the two of these

00:05:36 ◼   ► guys.

00:05:37 ◼   ► I don't obviously, but it was really nice to kind of take a mirror

00:05:41 ◼   ► on the three of us and talk about, you know, how did we get

00:05:43 ◼   ► here?

00:05:43 ◼   ► Because, you know, I'm I'm very proud of the work that the three of

00:05:46 ◼   ► us do.

00:05:47 ◼   ► And I'm very appreciative that you two fellas are continuing to stick it out

00:05:50 ◼   ► with me and vice versa.

00:05:52 ◼   ► And this thing, I don't run time was, but we recorded for something like

00:05:55 ◼   ► two hours.

00:05:56 ◼   ► And um I I thought it was really interesting and really fun.

00:05:59 ◼   ► Uh maybe you, the listener, will like it, maybe you won't, but you should

00:06:03 ◼   ► definitely check it out.

00:06:03 ◼   ► And I wanted to absolutely call out uh Joseph Humphrey who sent all these

00:06:07 ◼   ► uh in the on the twenty first of October twenty twenty five to give

00:06:10 ◼   ► you a hint as to how long it takes for us to get to

00:06:13 ◼   ► things.

00:06:13 ◼   ► But uh thank you to Joseph Humphrey for basically giving us an entire member

00:06:16 ◼   ► special.

00:06:17 ◼   ► All right.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Additionally, there's one more thing to announce, and I promise we're gonna talk follow-up

00:06:21 ◼   ► for a real long time.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Uh we need to talk about that.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Don't worry.

00:06:23 ◼   ► We'll get to the follow up.

00:06:24 ◼   ► Yeah, there's there's plenty there.

00:06:26 ◼   ► Uh we gotta talk about St.

00:06:27 ◼   ► Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:06:29 ◼   ► So let me remind you that September is childhood cancer awareness month.

00:06:34 ◼   ► And because of that, we are trying to raise money for St.

00:06:37 ◼   ► Jude Children's Hospital along with all of our friends at Relay.

00:06:40 ◼   ► If you have any money to scrape together, even a dollar, even $5, that's

00:06:44 ◼   ► great.

00:06:44 ◼   ► It's I shouldn't even I shouldn't say even.

00:06:46 ◼   ► I should say if you have $5 or a dollar or whatever, you should

00:06:49 ◼   ► go to St.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Jude.org slash ATP, S-T-J-U-D-E.org slash ATP.

00:06:53 ◼   ► And the reason you do that is because we, the three of us, really

00:06:56 ◼   ► believe in St.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Jude's mission, which is that no child should die in the dawn of their

00:07:01 ◼   ► life.

00:07:01 ◼   ► And they predominantly concentrate on childhood cancer, but they'll treat all sorts of really

00:07:06 ◼   ► awful illnesses.

00:07:07 ◼   ► So as an example, uh St.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Jude has helped deliver free cancer medicines to children in seven countries with more

00:07:13 ◼   ► to come.

00:07:14 ◼   ► And I bring this up because a lot of times people from the UK

00:07:16 ◼   ► will understandably be like, well, we don't have this problem because we actually have

00:07:21 ◼   ► uh socialized medicine and we're a civilized country.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And first of all, I'm jealous.

00:07:25 ◼   ► But second of all, you might still have this problem.

00:07:27 ◼   ► And even if you personally don't other countries around you may.

00:07:30 ◼   ► So as of April of this year, childhood cancer medicines have been delivered to

00:07:33 ◼   ► seven countries: Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Ecuador, Nepal, Zambia, Jordan, and Moldova.

00:07:38 ◼   ► This effort is a part of the global platform for access to childhood cancer

00:07:42 ◼   ► medicines, a collaboration between St.

00:07:43 ◼   ► Jude, the World Health Organization, and other global partners.

00:07:46 ◼   ► It aims to reach more than 120,000 children in 50 countries in the next

00:07:50 ◼   ► seven years.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Um, the second set of countries has already been announced as El Salvador, Ghana,

00:07:55 ◼   ► Pakistan uh Senegal and Sri Lanka.

00:07:58 ◼   ► So this is an example that St.

00:08:00 ◼   ► Jude is trying to do more than to reach out to more than just

00:08:02 ◼   ► America.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Additionally, we told the story maybe last week, maybe the week before, of one

00:08:06 ◼   ► of your fellow listeners who had a child who was stricken with childhood cancer.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And their child was treated with a regimen that was developed primarily at Saint

00:08:15 ◼   ► Jude.

00:08:15 ◼   ► And they were told that even though they were not anywhere geographically close to

00:08:18 ◼   ► Memphis.

00:08:19 ◼   ► So you should really think about donating to Saint Jude.

00:08:22 ◼   ► You can do that by going to Saint Jude.org slash ATP.

00:08:24 ◼   ► Marco, if you I don't know, maybe on Saturday spent a lot of money

00:08:29 ◼   ► on a phone that perhaps you didn't need, what could you do to kind

00:08:33 ◼   ► of assuage your guilt about your rampant consumerism?

00:08:35 ◼   ► That is such a great question because as you know, in addition to being

00:08:38 ◼   ► childhood cancer awareness month, it's a rampant consumerism season in the Apple enthusiast world.

00:08:44 ◼   ► And so if you just bought a phone to replace a phone that you

00:08:48 ◼   ► maybe could have gotten a bit more time out of, or maybe an Apple

00:08:51 ◼   ► Watch that you could have gotten a little maybe one more year out of.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Um or maybe you're gonna wait for the duo, but you know how much

00:08:57 ◼   ► the duo costs and you know you know how much you don't need to

00:09:01 ◼   ► spend on a phone.

00:09:02 ◼   ► Well, do I have the solution for your guilt?

00:09:05 ◼   ► What you have to do is figure out the Marco offset.

00:09:08 ◼   ► Now, as we discussed in previous episodes, you figure out the base price of

00:09:12 ◼   ► the family of phone that you were getting, uh, and you figure out whatever

00:09:16 ◼   ► your total transaction will be including sales tax, storage upgrades, cases, Apple Care, all

00:09:23 ◼   ► in price.

00:09:24 ◼   ► And that number, the difference between the base and that number, is the level

00:09:28 ◼   ► one Marco offset.

00:09:30 ◼   ► That is your recommended minimum donation to St.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Jude, if you can swing it.

00:09:34 ◼   ► And we figure if you can tack in all those extras when buying a

00:09:37 ◼   ► phone, you probably that's probably an amount you can swing unless you're really strapped.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Now, also, if you want to go a little bit further, what else might

00:09:44 ◼   ► you be guilty about this year?

00:09:45 ◼   ► How about using AI?

00:09:48 ◼   ► Well, do we have the solution for you?

00:09:50 ◼   ► Level two of the Marco offset is, in addition to your iPhone offset that

00:09:55 ◼   ► we just talked about.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Um and so by the way, same thing applies to Apple Watches and even

00:09:59 ◼   ► Macs soon.

00:10:00 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:10:01 ◼   ► Um which could be a significant offset if you get any kind of storage

00:10:04 ◼   ► or RAM upgrades.

00:10:06 ◼   ► Um anyway, level two is you also add on to that whatever you spent

00:10:12 ◼   ► on a paid AI plan this month.

00:10:15 ◼   ► Level three is you add on to that whatever you spent on a paid

00:10:20 ◼   ► AI plan this year.

00:10:22 ◼   ► So if you have a lot of guilt to assuage, we will personally use

00:10:27 ◼   ► our powers, uh um, I guess assigned to us by guilt gods to to

00:10:32 ◼   ► absolve you of your consumer guilt for buying needless Apple products and for using

00:10:38 ◼   ► AI, if you just give those equivalent amounts to St.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Jude this month.

00:10:42 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:10:43 ◼   ► John, anything to add?

00:10:45 ◼   ► Uh I'll just remind everybody that uh the podcast-a-thon is happening, the relay podcast

00:10:50 ◼   ► on is happening.

00:10:50 ◼   ► It's just happening a little bit later this year instead of overlapping with uh

00:10:54 ◼   ► iPhone announcement week.

00:10:56 ◼   ► So stay tuned for that.

00:10:57 ◼   ► Like we'll do these segments in for the whole month of September.

00:11:00 ◼   ► But I think the podcast on is what, the first week of October?

00:11:02 ◼   ► That's right.

00:11:03 ◼   ► It's I think the first or second, I forget the day off the top

00:11:05 ◼   ► of my head.

00:11:05 ◼   ► I'm gonna be there, so I should know, but Casey will be there.

00:11:08 ◼   ► If you wanna see Casey roped into a bunch of terrible games, um this

00:11:12 ◼   ► is the show for you.

00:11:13 ◼   ► It's it's really entertaining.

00:11:14 ◼   ► It's just like two you can drop in and drop out all day long,

00:11:17 ◼   ► tons of stuff happening.

00:11:18 ◼   ► Uh and that's a great time to pledge.

00:11:20 ◼   ► If you can't like you hear us talking about it, like yeah, yeah, get

00:11:22 ◼   ► on with the show, whatever, watch the podcast on because at some point you'll

00:11:25 ◼   ► be like, Oh, I guess this is now when I should should pledge.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Yes, very much so.

00:11:28 ◼   ► It is uh Friday, October second from noon, one true time zone until midnight,

00:11:33 ◼   ► one true time zone.

00:11:34 ◼   ► And inevitably, I will do something deeply and woefully embarrassing.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And if you want to share in my shame, you should check it out

00:11:41 ◼   ► and go to the relay YouTube channel and you can find it there.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Uh but again, one last time, Saint Jude.org slash ATP, S T J U

00:11:48 ◼   ► D E dot org slash ATP.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Thank you for bearing with us as we get s through some administrative.

00:11:53 ◼   ► But now let's start follow-up and honestly, we're probably not gonna finish it, but

00:11:57 ◼   ► we're we're gonna see what we can do.

00:11:58 ◼   ► And we're gonna start with friend of the show, Todd Vazier, pointing out that

00:12:01 ◼   ► there's a lot of James Bond homages, did I say that right?

00:12:04 ◼   ► Um, in the iPhone event video.

00:12:06 ◼   ► And Todd writes: the iPhone event video includes references to James Bond films, particularly

00:12:10 ◼   ► the opening shot of Skyfall from 2012, when presenting former CEO Tim Cook, Bond

00:12:15 ◼   ► walking from left to right in profile when introducing new CEO John Turnus, and

00:12:18 ◼   ► James Bond the the James Bond gun barrel title sequence when referring.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Or referencing, excuse me, the new variable aperture featured on the iPhone 18 Pro.

00:12:27 ◼   ► You can see this uh detailed in j in Todd's very brief blog post.

00:12:31 ◼   ► He also has a video comparison, which we will also link in the show

00:12:34 ◼   ► notes.

00:12:34 ◼   ► Uh Todd continues, back in 2018, I documented Uh I as in Todd documented

00:12:38 ◼   ► the heavy influence of Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol from twenty eleven on the twenty

00:12:42 ◼   ► eighteen Apple event introduction as well.

00:12:44 ◼   ► And we'll link that in the show.

00:12:46 ◼   ► I hadn't Skyfall in ages, but when you see the side by side, it's

00:12:49 ◼   ► not just like inspired by an homage to it's shot for shot.

00:12:52 ◼   ► Like Like you gotta watch it.

00:12:53 ◼   ► It's you know, it's really I mean, I I guess maybe they expected it

00:12:56 ◼   ► to be more obvious to viewers, but I only saw that movie once and

00:12:59 ◼   ► I didn't remember it at all.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Yep.

00:13:01 ◼   ► All right, and then I found this absolutely fascinating, but Tech za uh T-E-C-H-Z-H-A

00:13:07 ◼   ► pointed this out to us or pointed us to a post from Apple from

00:13:10 ◼   ► the Hey Apple um Instagram uh ch uh not channel G E Z P

00:13:15 ◼   ► Z account, uh where they have some information about the event video and they

00:13:19 ◼   ► said they filmed in 20 different locations across 38 filming days, which I found

00:13:26 ◼   ► astonishing.

00:13:27 ◼   ► Uh there were two astronauts and eight Roman soldiers, and Kyan Drance was captured

00:13:31 ◼   ► in the backlot used for Seinfeld and Friends uh, which is all interesting.

00:13:34 ◼   ► That was all from Apple, back to tech, whatever.

00:13:37 ◼   ► Uh, and I thought they only filmed for two or three days before the

00:13:39 ◼   ► event to keep everything secret, my uh exploding head emoji.

00:13:42 ◼   ► I agree, tech zaha.

00:13:43 ◼   ► Uh I also thought it was only a few days, and uh I had

00:13:46 ◼   ► no idea it was over a month.

00:13:48 ◼   ► Yeah, anyway, the twenty locations, like Apple Park is one of them for like

00:13:51 ◼   ► the whole rest of the the thing.

00:13:53 ◼   ► So maybe it's thirty seven locations for the uh intro.

00:13:56 ◼   ► I don't know, it could be.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Uh either way, that is astonishing and thank you to Tech Zaha for pointing

00:14:01 ◼   ► that too uh out to us.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Uh we've got some preliminary geekbench scores for the A20 Pro, the M6, and

00:14:07 ◼   ► the M5 Ultra.

00:14:08 ◼   ► The A20 Pro, which is in the iPhone of iPhones 18 Pro.

00:14:12 ◼   ► I need to give you a preamble.

00:14:13 ◼   ► Oh please.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Um so these these pre the preliminary scores is always like, oh, someone connected

00:14:19 ◼   ► a device and ran Geekbench and their device their score got registered.

00:14:23 ◼   ► That's how we see them.

00:14:23 ◼   ► Like their devices are not in everyone's hands.

00:14:25 ◼   ► Sometimes they aren't even in reviewers' hands yet.

00:14:28 ◼   ► But anyway, uh that's how they get up here.

00:14:29 ◼   ► That's preliminary, because there's a lot of variability when people report scores from their

00:14:33 ◼   ► devices depending if their device was hot or cold.

00:14:35 ◼   ► Was it being overclocked?

00:14:36 ◼   ► Was it sitting on an ice pack?

00:14:38 ◼   ► You know, like who knows what else was going on on the device.

00:14:40 ◼   ► So take that with a grain of salt.

00:14:42 ◼   ► And the second thing is, uh, Geekbench has recently changed from Geekbench version six

00:14:46 ◼   ► to geekbench version seven, and their website makes it really annoying to make sure

00:14:50 ◼   ► you're comparing apples to apples.

00:14:52 ◼   ► So for all these scores.

00:14:53 ◼   ► I always tried to find if I can't find a Geekbench seven score for

00:14:57 ◼   ► like an old Mac, I want to compare six to six or seven to

00:15:00 ◼   ► seven.

00:15:01 ◼   ► But that means that the absolute values, just ignore them because you you won't

00:15:05 ◼   ► know whether it's six or a seven value.

00:15:06 ◼   ► So all we're doing is like, okay, if I'm comparing this thing and this

00:15:10 ◼   ► one has to be a six because there's no seven score for it, I

00:15:13 ◼   ► have to find another comparable six.

00:15:14 ◼   ► And then I can compare the two Geekbench six scores and say it's X

00:15:18 ◼   ► percent different from each other, but ignore the absolute values.

00:15:21 ◼   ► If you hear absolute values like, well, that's much lower or higher than I

00:15:23 ◼   ► thought.

00:15:24 ◼   ► It's just because it's a seven score.

00:15:25 ◼   ► I you know, Geekbench is in a difficult transition period here, and it was

00:15:28 ◼   ► really annoying to do this.

00:15:29 ◼   ► But anyway, the percentage differences are the things that we care about.

00:15:33 ◼   ► All right, so the A20 Pro and the iPhone's 18 Pro.

00:15:36 ◼   ► The CPU single core performance is 24% better than the A19 Pro and 11%

00:15:43 ◼   ► better than the previous iOS or iPad OS single core champ, which is the

00:15:47 ◼   ► M5 iPad Pro and it's 260% better than John's Mac Pro, which in the

00:15:53 ◼   ► defense of John Syracusa, he himself added to the show notes.

00:15:56 ◼   ► I am very proud of you.

00:15:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I always want to look that up, you know.

00:15:59 ◼   ► But this is pretty impressive.

00:16:00 ◼   ► Like it's 11% faster than the previous single core champ, which is the M5.

00:16:04 ◼   ► So the phone chip has better single core.

00:16:06 ◼   ► I mean it makes sense because it's a newer super core and blah blah

00:16:08 ◼   ► blah or whatever, but still super impressive.

00:16:10 ◼   ► And yes, 260% faster in single core than my Mac Pro.

00:16:13 ◼   ► It it hurts.

00:16:14 ◼   ► And that's in a phone.

00:16:16 ◼   ► This is a phone chip that is performing at the same level in single

00:16:19 ◼   ► thread performance as a desktop chips.

00:16:21 ◼   ► And like not just desktop chips three years ago, desktop chips this year.

00:16:27 ◼   ► Like the newest one.

00:16:28 ◼   ► It is matching the newest chip that just came out.

00:16:31 ◼   ► That's incredible.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Oh, I should have put an M6 comparison because I do have M6 later,

00:16:36 ◼   ► but I don't know whether the M6 was Geekbench 6 or 7, so I

00:16:38 ◼   ► can't do the direct comparison now.

00:16:40 ◼   ► But yeah, it's no as far as I can see it is matching the

00:16:43 ◼   ► M six like so th you know, there's all these like, you know, preliminary

00:16:46 ◼   ► scores on Geekbench from these chips that are because it it seems as though,

00:16:49 ◼   ► you know, all the review units are out and so people are are see

00:16:52 ◼   ► are testing them.

00:16:53 ◼   ► And the M six matches the single threaded performance of the A twenty pro.

00:16:57 ◼   ► L or rather vice versa, the A twenty pro matches the M six, which

00:17:00 ◼   ► itself, like the M six, is a nice jump over the M five.

00:17:05 ◼   ► So that's really like it it looks like it probably shares the same super

00:17:09 ◼   ► core.

00:17:10 ◼   ► Yeah, the pr we'll get to it in a second.

00:17:11 ◼   ► But yeah, the M6 is a similar percentage faster than the M five.

00:17:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:15 ◼   ► It's incredible to for that to be in a phone.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Yeah, it's astonishing.

00:17:18 ◼   ► So that was all single core, let's talk multi-core.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Core 25% better than the previous iPhone champ, which was last year's A19 Pro,

00:17:27 ◼   ► but it's also 25% less than the M5 iPad.

00:17:30 ◼   ► Yet it is still 20% better than John Smack Pro.

00:17:33 ◼   ► So I mean, as we've said in the past years, the the phones have

00:17:35 ◼   ► been better than my Mac in both single core and multi core.

00:17:38 ◼   ► Remember I have a twelve core Xeon in here or whatever.

00:17:40 ◼   ► Uh yeah, that continues to be the case.

00:17:42 ◼   ► Although they can't compete with the M five just because the M five is

00:17:45 ◼   ► just so much bigger chip.

00:17:46 ◼   ► So when I get when it comes to multi-core, it's but still it's only

00:17:48 ◼   ► a 25% gap.

00:17:49 ◼   ► So it's within shouting distance of an M5 and multi-core.

00:17:53 ◼   ► Astonishing.

00:17:54 ◼   ► For GPU stuff, that was all CPU.

00:17:56 ◼   ► GPU, uh the metal uh benchmark, Almost forty percent better than the previous iPhone

00:18:02 ◼   ► champ, the A nineteen Pro.

00:18:03 ◼   ► Apple's claim well, so it was thirty eight percent.

00:18:05 ◼   ► Apple's claim was a forty percent increase in gaming performance.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Yeah, that can be like sanity check the number because Apple's Apple's publicity claims

00:18:12 ◼   ► is like forty percent increase in gaming forms.

00:18:13 ◼   ► Like, mm, really?

00:18:15 ◼   ► The metal score is 38% higher.

00:18:16 ◼   ► So I'm like, all right, that checks out.

00:18:19 ◼   ► Then with regard to other comparisons, it's 18% less than the M5iPad Pro and

00:18:25 ◼   ► 21% less than John's.

00:18:27 ◼   ► Mac Pro.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Woo, baby.

00:18:29 ◼   ► I'm going out.

00:18:30 ◼   ► This is my this is my final because by the time we record another

00:18:33 ◼   ► episode or two, I will have, you know, retired the Mac Pro and switched

00:18:36 ◼   ► to my M5 Max Max Studio.

00:18:38 ◼   ► So you know, I used this Intel Mac Pro for as long as I

00:18:42 ◼   ► possibly could, and obviously it's been destroyed by phone chips in every possible way.

00:18:47 ◼   ► Except GPU.

00:18:49 ◼   ► The phone chip cannot beat my max 600 watt GPU or whatever the hell

00:18:55 ◼   ► is in there.

00:18:56 ◼   ► I'm still twenty-one percent faster than a phone.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:01 ◼   ► In this one measure.

00:19:02 ◼   ► But I'm just I'm just glad that I didn't see the day where the

00:19:05 ◼   ► phone beat my Mac in single core multi-core and GPU.

00:19:10 ◼   ► Well well, do you have a ship date for your studio?

00:19:12 ◼   ► I don't remember it.

00:19:13 ◼   ► It's coming on the twenty second, supposedly.

00:19:15 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:19:15 ◼   ► That's not bad at all.

00:19:16 ◼   ► No, day one.

00:19:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:17 ◼   ► Uh all right.

00:19:18 ◼   ► So that was all the A20 Pro, right?

00:19:20 ◼   ► Now let's move on to the M6.

00:19:22 ◼   ► CPU, single core performance is 10% better than the M5.

00:19:26 ◼   ► Multi-core performance, 35% better than the M5.

00:19:29 ◼   ► These like year-over-year improvements are astonishing.

00:19:33 ◼   ► I cannot believe we're still seeing this big of a jump every year.

00:19:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:38 ◼   ► M5 Ultra, CPU is the only thing we have.

00:19:40 ◼   ► You missed the GPU for the M6.

00:19:42 ◼   ► That's what I said.

00:19:42 ◼   ► I'm gonna do GPU for M6 first.

00:19:45 ◼   ► Uh the GPU is twenty-five percent better than the M five.

00:19:49 ◼   ► So the jump from M five to M6, a twenty-five percent increase.

00:19:52 ◼   ► And it's interesting that I don't know.

00:19:53 ◼   ► I mean, so Geekbench is the the general uh benchmark disclaimer.

00:19:57 ◼   ► We don't have representative Geekbench is or anything.

00:19:58 ◼   ► It's just a popular benchmark that people use.

00:20:00 ◼   ► God only knows if there's some particular benchmark that suddenly fits into some cache

00:20:04 ◼   ► and gives this big boost or whatever right.

00:20:05 ◼   ► We'll find out with real world uh benchmarks how these things actually do.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Uh but yeah, GPU 25% increase and in a year, multicore 35% increase.

00:20:16 ◼   ► These are pretty big increases for the vanilla, no suffix m chips.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Yep.

00:20:21 ◼   ► Really incredible.

00:20:21 ◼   ► And then finally the M5 Ultra.

00:20:24 ◼   ► The CPU is roughly the same as the M5 Max for single core, which

00:20:29 ◼   ► is to be expected, I think, but multi-core, it's almost 40% better than the

00:20:35 ◼   ► M3 Ultra.

00:20:36 ◼   ► So again, M3 to M5 is an almost 40% increase.

00:20:40 ◼   ► M5 max to M5 Ultra, a 60% increase.

00:20:45 ◼   ► That is astonishing to me.

00:20:47 ◼   ► So again.

00:20:47 ◼   ► M3 Ultra to M five Ultra, uh 40% increase, but M five Max to

00:20:52 ◼   ► M five Ultra, sixty almost sixty percent increase.

00:20:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean you would uh it's tricky, but it's like, hey isn't it

00:20:58 ◼   ► two M five maxes put together?

00:21:00 ◼   ► Shouldn't be a hundred percent increase because you double everything.

00:21:02 ◼   ► And that's where you get into some of the obviously there's overhead of the

00:21:05 ◼   ► you know, the the way they do the interposer and blah blah blah.

00:21:08 ◼   ► But also, are these benchmarks like uh what kind of data dependencies are in

00:21:12 ◼   ► these benchmarks?

00:21:13 ◼   ► Like there's a whole bunch of things that limit the uh exploitable parallelism in

00:21:16 ◼   ► CPU stuff.

00:21:17 ◼   ► GPUs are usually, as they say, embarrassingly parallel and there's not a lot of

00:21:21 ◼   ► in data dependencies slowing things down and stuff.

00:21:23 ◼   ► Whereas finding multi-core CPU benchmarks that really let all the cores go at full

00:21:29 ◼   ► speed is difficult.

00:21:30 ◼   ► So it's hard to say without knowing the details of the benchmark.

00:21:33 ◼   ► You know, is this just a di uh, you know, is the over does

00:21:36 ◼   ► the overhead of the two M five Maxes stuck together continue to just cripple

00:21:39 ◼   ► cripple this chip or is it actually made a little bit worse by the

00:21:41 ◼   ► fact that the benchmark can't actually exploit it?

00:21:43 ◼   ► Again, real world benchmarks are what you care about.

00:21:45 ◼   ► You're running uh real world tests are what you care about.

00:21:47 ◼   ► You're gonna be running benchmarks all day.

00:21:49 ◼   ► You're gonna be doing something with your chip.

00:21:50 ◼   ► So I don't know, like someone who runs a local model uh you know,

00:21:54 ◼   ► doing local LMs or some kind of thing that actually uses all the CBUs,

00:21:57 ◼   ► like a CPU bound rendering thing for in like Blender or something that really

00:22:01 ◼   ► is uh embarrassingly parallel.

00:22:03 ◼   ► So we'll see with real world tests, but it's so weird for this comparison

00:22:06 ◼   ► because you're you have to compare it to the M3 Ultra, which is two

00:22:09 ◼   ► generations older, but it's only thing that's close in terms of the amount of

00:22:12 ◼   ► silicon in it.

00:22:13 ◼   ► Yep.

00:22:13 ◼   ► Really incredible work by Apple's silicon team.

00:22:15 ◼   ► It just it it continues to be just astonishing.

00:22:18 ◼   ► All right, let's talk the C two, the cellular modem.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Joe Rossignal at Mac Rumors writes Apple says the iPhone eighteen pro has a

00:22:25 ◼   ► C two modem worldwide, while the iPhone eighteen pro Max uses the chip in

00:22:29 ◼   ► every country except the US.

00:22:32 ◼   ► Is this American exceptionalism?

00:22:33 ◼   ► I don't know bad.

00:22:34 ◼   ► Anyway, according to a tipster known as It's Pedifu, uh iOS 27 code reveals

00:22:40 ◼   ► that the iPhone 18 Pro Max is equipped with a Qualcomm modem instead of

00:22:43 ◼   ► the C2 chip in the US.

00:22:44 ◼   ► In 2023, Qualcomm announced it would supply Apple with smartphone modems through Twenty Six.

00:22:48 ◼   ► So perhaps Apple is equipping the US version of the iPhone 18 Pro Max

00:22:52 ◼   ► with a Qualcomm modem in order to honor this agreement in a minimum way.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Or maybe they just couldn't facture as many C2s, like it's the I've seen

00:22:59 ◼   ► the theory in a a bunch of places like oh Apple has to ship

00:23:01 ◼   ► Qualcomm chips because they had a contract or whatever.

00:23:04 ◼   ► I don't know that's how contracts work, but it you know, I'm glad I'm

00:23:06 ◼   ► I'll put it this way, I'm glad I'm not getting the Pro Max because

00:23:09 ◼   ► I want the C2 chip because it's presumably, you know, uses less power like

00:23:12 ◼   ► all of Apple's modem chips do.

00:23:14 ◼   ► And uh the pro everyone who's tried the C1 and the C1X have said

00:23:18 ◼   ► it's fine, it's good.

00:23:19 ◼   ► Like so I'm hoping that when I get my iPhone 18 Pro with the

00:23:23 ◼   ► C2, that I will be happy with the Cip and the battery life that

00:23:27 ◼   ► it gives me.

00:23:27 ◼   ► Yep.

00:23:28 ◼   ► Uh flanker writes, so now there's a fancy heat dissip d uh dissipating plate

00:23:33 ◼   ► behind the screen in the iPhone 18 Pro.

00:23:35 ◼   ► How long before this turns into a solar panel to constantly recharge the phone?

00:23:38 ◼   ► I don't know if that's feasible, but man, that sounds really slick.

00:23:41 ◼   ► It's not.

00:23:42 ◼   ► Um so So So i the problem with um with solar charging of small

00:23:48 ◼   ► portable devices um is that you just don't have a lot of surface area

00:23:53 ◼   ► to have a meaningful charge added to modern devices in most real world conditions.

00:23:59 ◼   ► Um there was an episode of John Chidgey's uh podcast Pragmatic back in twenty

00:24:04 ◼   ► fourteen, twelve years ago um, called Watch This Time and Space, episode thirty eight

00:24:09 ◼   ► of Pragmatic, we'll link to it in the show notes.

00:24:11 ◼   ► Um, where he goes over like it it was shortly after the Apple Watch

00:24:15 ◼   ► had come out and he and s and he goes over the question of

00:24:17 ◼   ► like could the Apple Watch basically basically be a solar panel like on its

00:24:20 ◼   ► face the same way there there are other like solar mechanical or solar quartz

00:24:25 ◼   ► watches um that are able to do that like the like the Citizen Eco

00:24:29 ◼   ► Drive series and Seiko has some too like they're able to keep themselves charged

00:24:32 ◼   ► through just the face of the watch having a solar panel kind of under

00:24:36 ◼   ► it.

00:24:36 ◼   ► Um but the di the problem is those watches use very, very little power

00:24:41 ◼   ► to to drive their their mechanisms.

00:24:44 ◼   ► Whereas you if you compare to a modern, you know full color screened device,

00:24:48 ◼   ► like whatever battery is in it, like you're talking about very different amounts of

00:24:52 ◼   ► power.

00:24:52 ◼   ► So um I did some quick research before the show to figure out like

00:24:55 ◼   ► and by that I mean I asked AI, um but to figure out like

00:24:59 ◼   ► roughly what are we talking about in terms of like if the entire face

00:25:02 ◼   ► of the iPhone seventeen Pro was a solar panel, how much energy could it

00:25:08 ◼   ► collect and how much would that charge its battery in reasonable conditions?

00:25:13 ◼   ► And the answer is basically like a few percent per hour, really, like at

00:25:18 ◼   ► most.

00:25:18 ◼   ► And that's if you are not using the phone at all and it's just

00:25:21 ◼   ► sitting like you know on a table flat like with collecting sun.

00:25:25 ◼   ► Um so it's obviously that varies based on where you are and time of

00:25:29 ◼   ► day and sun angle and weather and and stuff like that.

00:25:32 ◼   ► But you're talking about a few percent per hour at most, you know, most

00:25:36 ◼   ► of the time.

00:25:37 ◼   ► So it's not really enough to make a difference.

00:25:42 ◼   ► And that's also ignoring things like, you know, y would it be the back

00:25:46 ◼   ► of the phone?

00:25:47 ◼   ► Like can it then, you know, would you have to make room for the

00:25:49 ◼   ► camera plateau?

00:25:50 ◼   ► If it's front of the phone, it has to obviously go under the screen,

00:25:53 ◼   ► which would significantly reduce the amount of light.

00:25:55 ◼   ► Like there's just all these sorts of practical problems.

00:25:57 ◼   ► But the the fundamental problem is that it's just not a big enough surface

00:26:01 ◼   ► to make a meaningful difference most of the time in most conditions

00:26:04 ◼   ► for the actual amount of power that modern devices use, which is a decent

00:26:08 ◼   ► amount of power.

00:26:10 ◼   ► We are sponsored this episode by Claude.

00:26:13 ◼   ► I have Claude do so much for me every day now.

00:26:16 ◼   ► So just today alone, I had it research a pricing issue with my iOS

00:26:21 ◼   ► app and subscription uh ch uh price changes.

00:26:23 ◼   ► I had it validate the uh validity of a geekbench result that's uh for

00:26:27 ◼   ► the purported new M6 and you know look around and see like do various

00:26:30 ◼   ► factors of it look right?

00:26:32 ◼   ► Are they plausible based on Apple's marketing?

00:26:34 ◼   ► I had it look up the equivalent apertures of all the new iPhone 18

00:26:38 ◼   ► Pros uh lens apertures on the variable uh aperture lens uh and convert them

00:26:42 ◼   ► to thirty five millimeter equivalents.

00:26:44 ◼   ► Um I had it look up what percentage of people around the world sleep

00:26:48 ◼   ► on different types of mattress or surface types, just for a conversation I was

00:26:52 ◼   ► having.

00:26:52 ◼   ► Had it match the DPI of a third party mouse to match the response

00:26:56 ◼   ► rate of a magic mouse, and look up various electrolyte products and see what's

00:26:59 ◼   ► best for my runs.

00:27:01 ◼   ► It's amazing what it can do.

00:27:02 ◼   ► Oh, by the way, yesterday it solved a huge bug in Overcast download that's

00:27:06 ◼   ► taking me months to find.

00:27:07 ◼   ► All that is possible and so much more with Claude.

00:27:10 ◼   ► Claude is the AI for problem solvers.

00:27:12 ◼   ► It's the collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for

00:27:17 ◼   ► you.

00:27:17 ◼   ► Whether you're debugging code at midnight, building a financial model, or strategizing your next

00:27:21 ◼   ► business move.

00:27:22 ◼   ► Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter.

00:27:26 ◼   ► I get a huge amount of value out of Claude code.

00:27:29 ◼   ► This is living right where you already work in your terminal, your IDE, or

00:27:33 ◼   ► the desktop app and the web, even GitHub, and it can read your code

00:27:36 ◼   ► base and take real engineering tasks off your plate.

00:27:39 ◼   ► Writing tests, I love doing that with Claw because I hate writing tests.

00:27:42 ◼   ► Debugging, refactoring.

00:27:44 ◼   ► It can even watch your pull request and fix CI failures while you are

00:27:48 ◼   ► away making coffee.

00:27:49 ◼   ► So it's amazing what you can do with Claude Code and so much more.

00:27:52 ◼   ► This is just scratching the surface.

00:27:55 ◼   ► For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at Claude.ai slash ATP.

00:28:00 ◼   ► That's claud.ai slash ATP.

00:28:03 ◼   ► And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all the features mentioned in

00:28:06 ◼   ► today's Claude.ai slash ATP.

00:28:09 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Claude for sponsoring our show.

00:28:16 ◼   ► Let's talk cameras.

00:28:18 ◼   ► Uh specifically the aperture blades on the iPhone's 18 Pro.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Uh MKBHD says apparently third-party apps will be able to do infinite aperture values,

00:28:28 ◼   ► uh, not just the four preset aperture values that Apple exposes in the camera

00:28:32 ◼   ► app.

00:28:32 ◼   ► That is news to me.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I have not watched his review yet, so that's uh PetiPixel said the same

00:28:36 ◼   ► thing.

00:28:36 ◼   ► I think Apple has told everybody that essentially all the reviewers that even though

00:28:40 ◼   ► we expose for aperture aperture uh sizes, it's adjustable.

00:28:45 ◼   ► So third party apps can pick whichever sizes they want.

00:28:47 ◼   ► And apparently even during video you can smoothly change from one aperture to another

00:28:51 ◼   ► without any stepping in between.

00:28:52 ◼   ► So I'm I'm assuming they're getting this info for Apple now that I've seen

00:28:55 ◼   ► it in two review videos.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Yeah and and I recommend the MPB BHD review.

00:28:59 ◼   ► It 'cause he actually goes and shows like the difference in aperture values and

00:29:03 ◼   ► and how it affects the photos, um, which I thought was very was very,

00:29:07 ◼   ► you know, good to see.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Um I've also seen on um in Petapixel's review They noted that if you

00:29:14 ◼   ► actually open it up to the widest open aperture, the new F1.48, which lets

00:29:18 ◼   ► in more light, you do give a little bit in sharpness.

00:29:22 ◼   ► And not just in the focal plane being shallower, but in the actual sharpness

00:29:26 ◼   ► of the lens that it is less sharp, especially outside of the center of

00:29:30 ◼   ► the frame.

00:29:31 ◼   ► That's true.

00:29:31 ◼   ► That's true of all cameras.

00:29:32 ◼   ► Yeah it's true.

00:29:33 ◼   ► It's very like ever any kind of camera or lens review, you you're gonna

00:29:36 ◼   ► see them measure that and and it'll you know, the better the lens, the

00:29:39 ◼   ► sh the sharper the corners, but you know, it there it there's still always

00:29:42 ◼   ► a trade-off and it's it it's never quite the same across the whole frame

00:29:45 ◼   ► and when you make the aperture smaller the corners sharpen up more.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:48 ◼   ► But you can tell like and and based on some other reviews so far,

00:29:51 ◼   ► it seems like uh Apple software is preferring the F one point eight aperture

00:29:57 ◼   ► much of the time, unless it really needs that extra light, like in in

00:30:00 ◼   ► low light scenes.

00:30:01 ◼   ► Um and that's and they may even mentioned in the in the video, they

00:30:04 ◼   ► said that they had like optimized the f one point eight aperture for most

00:30:08 ◼   ► use.

00:30:09 ◼   ► And so it seems like in most of the time you're not going to

00:30:13 ◼   ► get the benefit of that wider open aperture unless you manually set it, but

00:30:16 ◼   ► you might not want to.

00:30:17 ◼   ► But in low light, it will be very nice.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Although my one complaint about the MKBHD video is when he was trying to

00:30:22 ◼   ► just sem demonstrate aperture on his bazillion dollar like red video camera that he's

00:30:26 ◼   ► being recorded on, he just adjusted the aperture without like changing like the you

00:30:30 ◼   ► know the shutter speed effectively or whatever like the equivalent is on a video

00:30:33 ◼   ► camera.

00:30:34 ◼   ► So it was just the when he made the aperture bigger everything got really

00:30:36 ◼   ► bright and we made the aperture smaller, everything got really dark.

00:30:38 ◼   ► And it's well that's not how you actually use those things.

00:30:40 ◼   ► Other things adjust as well.

00:30:42 ◼   ► I wish he had shown the uh the depth of field changing, because it

00:30:46 ◼   ► probably in the giant lens and sensor he has, he could have demonstrated that

00:30:49 ◼   ► inside a little room.

00:30:50 ◼   ► Uh but whatever, it's not he's not doing a photography tutorial.

00:30:53 ◼   ► But it just made I think it made people seem like, oh, that aperture

00:30:56 ◼   ► thing just makes your pictures too bright or too dark.

00:30:58 ◼   ► It's well, no, that's uh anyway.

00:31:00 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:31:00 ◼   ► Also, like to get a to get an idea of what these apertures are

00:31:04 ◼   ► if you're used to other cameras, um I did the conversion and the the

00:31:08 ◼   ► widest open aperture, F one point four eight, on the iPhone, is equivalent to

00:31:12 ◼   ► F five point two on a full frame sensor.

00:31:15 ◼   ► Oh wow.

00:31:16 ◼   ► And then the narrowest one, F four, on the iPhone, is equivalent to F

00:31:19 ◼   ► fourteen.

00:31:20 ◼   ► So it's F five point two to F fourteen equivalent.

00:31:23 ◼   ► So this is not terrible, but it's certainly like if you're if you are

00:31:28 ◼   ► thinking it's gonna be anything like, you know, a a full frame fifty you

00:31:33 ◼   ► know, nifty fifty prime lens that you got, like it's it's not.

00:31:35 ◼   ► It's not gonna be near that.

00:31:38 ◼   ► It is nice relative to iPhone lenses, um, but you're still in iPhone lens

00:31:42 ◼   ► land.

00:31:43 ◼   ► That's better than I thought.

00:31:44 ◼   ► F5 is b honestly better than I thought the widest open thing would be.

00:31:48 ◼   ► So all right.

00:31:49 ◼   ► Orlando writes: A note about the benefits of the new adjustable aperture in the

00:31:52 ◼   ► iPhone 18 Pro.

00:31:53 ◼   ► Physically stopping down the aperture in bright environments with mixed artificial lighting helps avoid

00:31:58 ◼   ► fast shutter speeds that caused banding or flickering in those sources of those sources,

00:32:03 ◼   ► especially in video.

00:32:04 ◼   ► Yeah, because the I mean, like all iPhone uh cameras ever, it has a

00:32:07 ◼   ► quote unquote electronic shutter in that there's not something mechanical moving in front of

00:32:11 ◼   ► the sensor.

00:32:12 ◼   ► It is all just reading out the sensor in various strips.

00:32:14 ◼   ► And if you have lighting that flickers real fast, like when you read one

00:32:17 ◼   ► row, the light could be the LED light could be off and you read

00:32:20 ◼   ► the next row, the light could be on or a little bit of overlapping.

00:32:22 ◼   ► So you get this weird stripe in your pictures.

00:32:25 ◼   ► Uh and if you read out more slowly, then the LED lights will flicker

00:32:29 ◼   ► 17 times during each row and so it'll all even out.

00:32:31 ◼   ► And that's stopping down means making the hole that the light gets in smaller.

00:32:36 ◼   ► That means changing the aperture to be a high stop, stopping down means changing

00:32:39 ◼   ► the aperture to be a higher value.

00:32:41 ◼   ► I know it's a confusing terminology.

00:32:42 ◼   ► But anyway, there's another possible benefit of you know you doing manual control.

00:32:46 ◼   ► If you take and you get those weird bands, you don't, uh increase your

00:32:50 ◼   ► aperture value, which will make the hole smaller.

00:32:53 ◼   ► Chris Marquot writes, I think a big reason why the aperture blades are straight

00:32:57 ◼   ► and not round is to make good looking starbursts from point light sources.

00:33:01 ◼   ► To amateur photographers, this shouts pro, and these starbursts are easiest to create with

00:33:05 ◼   ► straight aperture blades.

00:33:07 ◼   ► Uh he included a picture from one of Apple's like samples that they showed

00:33:10 ◼   ► in the keynote, which sure enough, someone has an earring and there's a specular

00:33:13 ◼   ► highlight in it, and you get little starburst lines on the specular highlight Py

00:33:17 ◼   ► jersa, it's SLR lounge writes, uh as light passes into your camera through a

00:33:21 ◼   ► small opening, i.e.

00:33:22 ◼   ► a small aperture at a low focal length, it bends around the edges of

00:33:25 ◼   ► the blades and creates the star look.

00:33:27 ◼   ► The number of rays from each star burst is related to the number of

00:33:30 ◼   ► aperture blades in your lens.

00:33:31 ◼   ► The reason I looked up all this stuff is because I had thought and

00:33:36 ◼   ► was uh was confirmed as I looked up this stuff that there is still

00:33:40 ◼   ► some debate about the thing that Marco said last time, which is like straight

00:33:43 ◼   ► aperture blades versus rounded and how many blades and how much it and how

00:33:46 ◼   ► much that specifically affects Starburst.

00:33:49 ◼   ► Not like the the the bokeh bubbles, which I think is much easier to

00:33:52 ◼   ► just show.

00:33:52 ◼   ► But the Starburst, like, okay, but like the number of blades being the number

00:33:56 ◼   ► of rays, sure, but if the blades are curved versus straight, how much uh

00:33:59 ◼   ► difference does that make?

00:34:00 ◼   ► So Uh that's you know, I I pulled the SLR lounge one of just

00:34:04 ◼   ► saying here's someone straight up saying the thing that Orlando or no that Chris

00:34:07 ◼   ► was saying, which is like, uh yeah, a number of blades, uh uh sh

00:34:12 ◼   ► straight edges make more starbursty things than rounded edges.

00:34:16 ◼   ► Then uh we have Effortless Easy in Reddit's R Photography, uh who made a

00:34:22 ◼   ► quick comparison image between two aperture types and the effect on Starburst, nine straight

00:34:25 ◼   ► blades versus seven rounded blades.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Uh there is a link in the show notes where you can check out

00:34:29 ◼   ► the image of like a uh cruise ship, I think it is.

00:34:32 ◼   ► And there's a very bright light on the front of the cruise ship and

00:34:35 ◼   ► you can see the straight versus rounded uh starburst.

00:34:38 ◼   ► And the rounded one still has a starburst, but it's a little bit different

00:34:41 ◼   ► Starbucks.

00:34:42 ◼   ► I didn't count the little rays around it, but yeah.

00:34:44 ◼   ► And the final thing we'll link here is a thread from the DP Reviews

00:34:47 ◼   ► forum where it's just a bunch of foreign people debating this topic.

00:34:50 ◼   ► Does it matter they're straight?

00:34:51 ◼   ► Does it matter that are rounded?

00:34:52 ◼   ► Does it matter how many there are?

00:34:53 ◼   ► It's again specifically related to Starburst, which is a thing that some people are

00:34:57 ◼   ► kind of obsessed about and most like lens reviews and camera reviews and stuff

00:35:00 ◼   ► like do a thing on Starburst.

00:35:03 ◼   ► I I'm never found myself being particularly interested in them.

00:35:06 ◼   ► I wish they could be eliminated entirely.

00:35:07 ◼   ► But if you're going for something artsy, uh it's good to know what the

00:35:10 ◼   ► the Starburst performance characteristics are.

00:35:13 ◼   ► And if you want Starburst, Starburst with your iPhone camera, uh, I guess make

00:35:16 ◼   ► that hole a little smaller.

00:35:18 ◼   ► Yeah, in both of these cases it appears as though the number of rays

00:35:21 ◼   ► from the starburst is just twice the number of Averture blades, which might have

00:35:24 ◼   ► something to do with it.

00:35:25 ◼   ► Um but also like yeah, A I would consider these both flaws.

00:35:30 ◼   ► But I understand like, you know, sometimes you could sometimes you can use flaws

00:35:32 ◼   ► for artistic effect.

00:35:33 ◼   ► But B, I think the rounded one unquestionably looks better.

00:35:37 ◼   ► If you're gonna have one, I I like the rounded one looks like more

00:35:41 ◼   ► of like the the dreamy look that I think most people would be going

00:35:44 ◼   ► for.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Well th those are big, like real cameras.

00:35:46 ◼   ► Like look at the Apple one.

00:35:47 ◼   ► I think Apple the Apple one is a great use of Starburst.

00:35:49 ◼   ► There They're extremely thin and extremely sharp because again, the actual like equivalent aperture

00:35:54 ◼   ► of t the the tiny iPhone thing is such that they're gonna look a

00:35:57 ◼   ► lot more like the nine straight blades than the seven rounded ones or whatever.

00:36:01 ◼   ► But I think it is artful in this picture.

00:36:03 ◼   ► Little sparkle on the the person's person's earring, I think that looks nice.

00:36:06 ◼   ► Uh whereas those cruise ship ones look terrible.

00:36:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:08 ◼   ► The other thing I point out is that, you know, if you are using

00:36:10 ◼   ► this to capture like point light sources, there's a pretty good chance you're capturing

00:36:14 ◼   ► this in low light.

00:36:15 ◼   ► Uh 'cause that's when you would most often see point light sources is in

00:36:19 ◼   ► low light, and if you're stepping down the iPhone lens to the equivalent of

00:36:24 ◼   ► F fourteen in low light, you're gonna have some serious noise to deal with.

00:36:29 ◼   ► Gotta hold it real still.

00:36:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:31 ◼   ► Oh yeah yeah.

00:36:32 ◼   ► All right.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Uh also from MKBHD uh video review.

00:36:36 ◼   ► Uh we'll put a timestamp link in the show notes, but there's some interesting

00:36:40 ◼   ► comparisons between the section of the screen that has face ID behind it and

00:36:45 ◼   ► the section that does not.

00:36:46 ◼   ► Again, I didn't watch this yet.

00:36:47 ◼   ► I apologize.

00:36:48 ◼   ► I didn't.

00:36:49 ◼   ► But John, can you tell me about what's going on here?

00:36:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:51 ◼   ► Last episode I talked about how I could see the little spot on the

00:36:54 ◼   ► iPhone Duo where there was the camera thing behind the screen because like they

00:36:59 ◼   ► they uh omit some pixels that are in front of it so the camera

00:37:02 ◼   ► can actually see.

00:37:03 ◼   ► And of course the iPhone 18 Pro and Max do the same thing, but

00:37:07 ◼   ► with not with the camera, but with the face ID IR sprayer.

00:37:11 ◼   ► So I think it's a little bit less noticeable.

00:37:13 ◼   ► And you can kind of see why in these pictures they were just directly

00:37:16 ◼   ► from the review, we got like a microscope or something.

00:37:19 ◼   ► Especially if you look at the like the bottom picture in our notes here.

00:37:21 ◼   ► Again, we'll have a timestamp length because you can look at it, but the

00:37:23 ◼   ► super zoomed in one, you can see the pattern of sub pixels on the

00:37:26 ◼   ► phone and their weird pentile pattern of the R, the G, and the B

00:37:29 ◼   ► and these little diamond shapes.

00:37:31 ◼   ► And then when you get over into the region where the FaceTime IR sprayer

00:37:35 ◼   ► is up in the corner of the phone, you can see they just omit

00:37:38 ◼   ► like these zigzagging strips where there's no sub pixels.

00:37:41 ◼   ► There's nothing there.

00:37:42 ◼   ► That's where the IR is coming out of.

00:37:44 ◼   ► It's in between all these things.

00:37:45 ◼   ► If you look at the area where the IR camera is not, there's no

00:37:49 ◼   ► place for the IR rays to come out.

00:37:51 ◼   ► But where they are, uh it's like it's like a little zigzag pattern.

00:37:54 ◼   ► And the zoomed out one, you're like, okay, now that I know that's there

00:37:57 ◼   ► and I look, can you see it like around the twelve on this clock

00:38:00 ◼   ► thing?

00:38:00 ◼   ► Oh yeah, there's a little circle that's a little bit darker.

00:38:03 ◼   ► I would assume that they would drive the pixels a little bit harder within

00:38:06 ◼   ► that circle, but maybe they're not.

00:38:08 ◼   ► Like maybe that's too hard to do.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Like in other words, if you have fewer sub pixels, drive them a little

00:38:12 ◼   ► bit brighter so the overall appearance is that's there's not a dim circle.

00:38:16 ◼   ► But uh once I get my phone I'll definitely be looking for this.

00:38:18 ◼   ► But anyway, like I said, I think it is less noticeable than the camera

00:38:23 ◼   ► in the duo, because the camera in the duo is a visible light camera

00:38:26 ◼   ► and I think that just needs more holes in the pixels for the light

00:38:29 ◼   ► to go in than an IR one needs for the IR to go out.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Yeah, makes sense.

00:38:33 ◼   ► All right, let's talk iPhone Duo.

00:38:36 ◼   ► Uh I don't I had an epiphany just before I sat down to record.

00:38:40 ◼   ► Uh I was trying to do something on my phone with iPhone mirroring and

00:38:43 ◼   ► I was trying to monitor something that was going on, and it occurred to

00:38:47 ◼   ► me, what is gonna happen for iPhone mirroring with the duo?

00:38:50 ◼   ► Like will you be able to switch between the exterior and interior screens?

00:38:54 ◼   ► Uh Uh w will you only get one or the other?

00:38:57 ◼   ► I'm I I don't think we can solve this problem right now, but I'm

00:38:59 ◼   ► just very curious to know how is that gonna work.

00:39:02 ◼   ► I think they'd let you switch between them.

00:39:04 ◼   ► What they should really do is make it a three D model that you

00:39:05 ◼   ► can like open and close, but I bet it'll just I bet it's it'll

00:39:08 ◼   ► just be like a switch where you you know you hit the switch and

00:39:10 ◼   ► it does a little opening animation and you see the inner screen or you

00:39:13 ◼   ► have it closed, but we'll see.

00:39:15 ◼   ► Are you excited to get iPhone mirroring when you finally have an Apple Silicon

00:39:18 ◼   ► Mac?

00:39:19 ◼   ► No, I have uh iPhone mirroring now, don't I?

00:39:21 ◼   ► I don't think you do.

00:39:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:22 ◼   ► I never use it, but I'm pretty sure I have it.

00:39:24 ◼   ► Yeah do you Casey, do you use it a lot?

00:39:26 ◼   ► I wouldn't.

00:39:27 ◼   ► I use it probably a few times a week.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Um generally speaking, my phone is on my person, so if I'm using it

00:39:33 ◼   ► on my computer, I could grab my phone.

00:39:35 ◼   ► In this case, I was trying to monitor something that has an app but

00:39:38 ◼   ► doesn't have like a website or anything.

00:39:40 ◼   ► And so I was gonna leave it up on one of my screens to

00:39:43 ◼   ► just kind of glance at from time to time.

00:39:44 ◼   ► As it turns out, something was going on where it kept timing out, and

00:39:47 ◼   ► so I'm sure what was going on there.

00:39:49 ◼   ► But I I use it from time to time.

00:39:51 ◼   ► I I I definitely would miss it if it was gone, but it wouldn't

00:39:55 ◼   ► like shatter my world or anything like that.

00:39:56 ◼   ► I'm guessing you barely use it, Marco.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Yeah, so the problem is I will occasionally like you know get a notification

00:40:02 ◼   ► forward to my Mac and I'll click it and it'll try to open iPhone

00:40:04 ◼   ► mirroring And the problem is I use iPhone mirroring infrequently enough that every time

00:40:10 ◼   ► it has to authenticate itself again.

00:40:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Don't don't get John started on that sort of issue.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:15 ◼   ► And I'm just like, ah forget it.

00:40:16 ◼   ► Like every time like it's like, okay, I have to go unlock the phone

00:40:18 ◼   ► or type on it's like, forget it.

00:40:20 ◼   ► I'll just take out my pocket and do this.

00:40:21 ◼   ► So it just it's it it's one of those areas where like Apple's over

00:40:25 ◼   ► security around this feature makes it so that I just never use it.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Yep, I hear you.

00:40:30 ◼   ► Anyways, uh moving on.

00:40:32 ◼   ► There is no action button on the i iPhone Duo, and we couldn't remember

00:40:35 ◼   ► if we actually called that out as an as an item on the last

00:40:38 ◼   ► episode, but we're saying it now.

00:40:40 ◼   ► That bums me out.

00:40:41 ◼   ► Uh my action button is the flashlight, which I'm pretty darn sure.

00:40:44 ◼   ► I stole that idea from Marco, which I might have even made fun of

00:40:47 ◼   ► you for when I initially heard it.

00:40:48 ◼   ► And let me tell you, once I did it, it was amazing.

00:40:51 ◼   ► Yeah, it's

00:40:53 ◼   ► so uh so I'm sad about that.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Now I am glad that it does continue to have the camera control, less

00:40:58 ◼   ► because I I almost never use camera control for the like slidey action, but

00:41:02 ◼   ► I love using it not only to launch the camera app, but also sometimes

00:41:05 ◼   ► to actually snap a photo.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Uh so I'm glad that it still has camera control, but I am bummed

00:41:09 ◼   ► about no action button.

00:41:10 ◼   ► It's so weird 'cause the action button is so small.

00:41:12 ◼   ► I know room is tight on the duo and they don't have a lot

00:41:15 ◼   ► of room for stuff and the sides are shorter.

00:41:16 ◼   ► Like I understand why it's like let's let's economize on buttons, but I I

00:41:20 ◼   ► almost kind of think that like they could just made the camera control smaller

00:41:23 ◼   ► and use the room.

00:41:25 ◼   ► Use the room that they say it because the action button is so tiny.

00:41:28 ◼   ► I mean maybe is it bigger on the seventeen?

00:41:30 ◼   ► On my sixteen, the the action button is the tiniest button ever.

00:41:32 ◼   ► I'm like, find a place for that, but we'll save the next version.

00:41:35 ◼   ► Well that's the problem.

00:41:36 ◼   ► It's like on on what edge?

00:41:38 ◼   ► Like if it's on the top edge it's competing with volume, which I guess

00:41:40 ◼   ► it does on the I know, but like put it somewhere.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Like like this that's the problem with the folding phones is like well you

00:41:45 ◼   ► have to pick an edge and whatever edge you pick is gonna be inconvenient

00:41:48 ◼   ► for somebody in some situation, like the volume buttons being on the top and

00:41:50 ◼   ► bottom, which I think we also didn't mention, you just have to pick an

00:41:54 ◼   ► edge.

00:41:54 ◼   ► Uh and you know people will make it that's that's the that's the beauty

00:41:56 ◼   ► of the action button is like, well what if there's some function that there's

00:41:59 ◼   ► a button for, but the way I use the phone, it's me to get

00:42:02 ◼   ► to that button.

00:42:03 ◼   ► The action uh button would be like okay well I'll just configure the action

00:42:07 ◼   ► button to do that thing, even though there's already a button that does that.

00:42:09 ◼   ► Like having the action button be the camera shutter because the way you hold

00:42:12 ◼   ► your duo, it's more convenient for you to hit that than the camera button.

00:42:15 ◼   ► So that's why I think it would have been useful.

00:42:17 ◼   ► Just so kind of like a a another option for people, uh, because like

00:42:21 ◼   ► we don't I don't think even Apple knows like how are people gonna hold

00:42:24 ◼   ► this and use it and what's gonna be convenient and not.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Like they made their best guess where they put the buttons now, but uh

00:42:29 ◼   ► you know, once this thing gets out into the wider world, we'll see.

00:42:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:32 ◼   ► Uh I think we were trying to theorize what was going to happen with

00:42:35 ◼   ► keyboards on the duo, particularly when you're on the internal screen.

00:42:38 ◼   ► I can never keep their official terminology straight.

00:42:41 ◼   ► I apologize.

00:42:41 ◼   ► But anyway, uh the duo does indeed have a split keyboard when you have

00:42:45 ◼   ► it uh open split.

00:42:47 ◼   ► So you are using the internal screen.

00:42:48 ◼   ► John, where do you remember where the screenshot came from?

00:42:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I wish I would have been able to find a source for it.

00:42:53 ◼   ► I just I screenshotted it.

00:42:54 ◼   ► It was probably from a video, but I think it's this is an I

00:42:56 ◼   ► think an official Apple video, but there's official Apple media that show yes, it

00:43:00 ◼   ► does indeed have an iPad style split Cooper.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Although not the iPad style, iPad used to actually have like a like a

00:43:06 ◼   ► gap between the split where you could see the screen in some iterations, but

00:43:09 ◼   ► this is a straight across the bottom of the screen, but the it's split

00:43:12 ◼   ► because like half of the keys are close to your left thumb and half

00:43:15 ◼   ► of the keys are close to your right thumb and then there's just a

00:43:17 ◼   ► big alley around the crease where there's nothing.

00:43:20 ◼   ► Yeah, this is one of the parts I'm most curious about, like it having

00:43:23 ◼   ► the duo in use, how weird is it that the keyboard can basically be

00:43:29 ◼   ► three different sizes.

00:43:31 ◼   ► Uh like I think just gut feeling wise, I would think that would really

00:43:35 ◼   ► bother me.

00:43:36 ◼   ► And that this is like I've never used the touch keyboard very much on

00:43:40 ◼   ► iPads for this reason.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Like 'cause it's always like a different size than my phone and like not

00:43:44 ◼   ► what I'm used to.

00:43:45 ◼   ► So this though, I mean this is a smart way to do it in

00:43:47 ◼   ► that they can probably keep the keys like the same sizes and distances apart

00:43:52 ◼   ► in both orientations of the inner screen, but then it would be different on

00:43:57 ◼   ► the outer screen.

00:43:59 ◼   ► So I don't like I don't Yeah, I mean it's it's like timing on

00:44:01 ◼   ► an iPad.

00:44:02 ◼   ► It's we're and like and I suspect, I mean, 'cause I mean I guess

00:44:05 ◼   ► this is part of what we'll see like when we have these devices and

00:44:08 ◼   ► actually have time to use them, but like, are you gonna wanna type much

00:44:12 ◼   ► on the outer screen given that it's so short and you're probably not gonna

00:44:15 ◼   ► have a lot of space above the keyboard to see what you're typing into?

00:44:19 ◼   ► I don't I don't know.

00:44:20 ◼   ► I it it the it all remains to be seen how this device will

00:44:23 ◼   ► actually be used by everybody.

00:44:24 ◼   ► And and I think everyone's gonna be forced to kind of like like relearn

00:44:31 ◼   ► how to physically use a phone uh in a in a bunch of different

00:44:34 ◼   ► ways while getting used to it.

00:44:36 ◼   ► It's so funny to me because I I'm going to get one of these.

00:44:39 ◼   ► We talked about that before.

00:44:40 ◼   ► Um, I waffle a lot between being sad about the camera and, you know,

00:44:46 ◼   ► the now the action button.

00:44:48 ◼   ► But when I get past that, when I allow myself to actually be enthusiastic,

00:44:52 ◼   ► I am really excited to try this.

00:44:53 ◼   ► And I am really excited for something that is genuinely new in the world

00:44:57 ◼   ► of iPhones.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Yes, Android people, we hear you, we know.

00:45:00 ◼   ► But in the world of iPhones, I'm genuinely excited to try something new.

00:45:05 ◼   ► And even if this isn't for me, which who knows, but even if this

00:45:09 ◼   ► isn't me, I think it's gonna be super neat to have something just wildly

00:45:13 ◼   ► different to play with for a while.

00:45:14 ◼   ► And I'm getting ever more excited for it as time goes on.

00:45:18 ◼   ► Now, remind me of this when I try to take a zoomed in shot

00:45:20 ◼   ► of my children and can't, but uh I am I am genuinely getting really,

00:45:25 ◼   ► really excited for this.

00:45:26 ◼   ► And I think it's a really, really interesting time.

00:45:28 ◼   ► There's gotchas, there's a lot of compromises, as we talked about.

00:45:32 ◼   ► There's a lot of, yeah, but I I I feel like to offset some

00:45:36 ◼   ► of my fetching and complaining from last episode, I genuinely am really excited for

00:45:41 ◼   ► this.

00:45:41 ◼   ► I don't know, Marco, you're in for one you had said.

00:45:44 ◼   ► Are you feeling the same?

00:45:45 ◼   ► Are you just dreading it?

00:45:46 ◼   ► I know from the developer point of view it sucks.

00:45:48 ◼   ► We're gonna put that aside for now.

00:45:49 ◼   ► But from a user point of view, I'm getting really, really amped for it.

00:45:53 ◼   ► You know, we we got a we got a piece of feedback sometime that

00:45:55 ◼   ► was basically like, Why are we so negative on the duo?

00:45:58 ◼   ► And I thought were we that negative on the duo?

00:46:00 ◼   ► But I but I think like I I really am speaking from two different

00:46:04 ◼   ► parts of my uh butt, I guess.

00:46:06 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:07 ◼   ► Um like from from the developer side, I'm really irked at how Apple is

00:46:13 ◼   ► handling this.

00:46:15 ◼   ► Um but from the user side.

00:46:17 ◼   ► I am really excited about this new device.

00:46:19 ◼   ► Like I I I think

00:46:21 ◼   ► I think it's gonna have a a bit of a slow start on the

00:46:25 ◼   ► software side from for as I said last time, like for everybody, for Apple's

00:46:28 ◼   ► software and for our software it's gonna be a year of safe area inset

00:46:33 ◼   ► bugs and betas and non-updated apps.

00:46:36 ◼   ► Uh but

00:46:37 ◼   ► from a physical device perspective, like imagine what this opens up, no pun intended.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Uh nice.

00:46:45 ◼   ► There is so like, first of all, even just the basics of like taking

00:46:48 ◼   ► a selfie, you can now use the best camera on your phone to take

00:46:53 ◼   ► a selfie because you can see yourself on the on the outer screen.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Like there There's there's so many assumptions or as I was saying earlier, patterns

00:47:02 ◼   ► about using phones that that this changes, or at least gives you the opportunity

00:47:07 ◼   ► to change.

00:47:07 ◼   ► Not to mention, like, you know, as you you know, as you open it

00:47:11 ◼   ► up, you have a way bigger screen than any other phone has ever or

00:47:15 ◼   ► than any any other iPhone has ever offered.

00:47:17 ◼   ► I know Andro Android people are like on fire.

00:47:19 ◼   ► They didn't of this like well set that aside.

00:47:23 ◼   ► Any other iPhone has ever offered.

00:47:25 ◼   ► Um so that that opens up lots of potential for software, for different use

00:47:31 ◼   ► cases.

00:47:32 ◼   ► I'm actually very excited about the Apple Pencil support.

00:47:36 ◼   ► Uh well tell me more.

00:47:38 ◼   ► Well, uh first of all, uh just from an app development perspective, I want

00:47:42 ◼   ► to make my uh note-taking app for it at some point.

00:47:45 ◼   ► Oh, breaking news.

00:47:46 ◼   ► You didn't tell us this.

00:47:47 ◼   ► I I wish as I've said recently, you you did when was where was

00:47:51 ◼   ► I when that happened?

00:47:51 ◼   ► I I do not remember you saying that.

00:47:53 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:47:53 ◼   ► I mean nothing was stopping you from making that app for the iPad except

00:47:56 ◼   ► for your hatred of the iPad iPadway drum to the iPad because like you'll

00:48:00 ◼   ► be on your couch and you know, people who like iPads are like, Oh,

00:48:04 ◼   ► when I sit on my couch and read through my news for the day,

00:48:07 ◼   ► I like to do it on my iPad and you're like iPad i my

00:48:09 ◼   ► pad.

00:48:09 ◼   ► It's in the drawer.

00:48:10 ◼   ► I don't care.

00:48:10 ◼   ► But you'll have your phone.

00:48:12 ◼   ► And maybe when you're there, you're like, you know, I'm gonna read a long

00:48:14 ◼   ► article.

00:48:15 ◼   ► And actually it's nicer to read this long article if I open up my

00:48:18 ◼   ► phone into uh, you know, the open mode and put it in portrait orientation

00:48:21 ◼   ► and now I can make the text bigger and it's I can read more

00:48:24 ◼   ► at once.

00:48:25 ◼   ► So maybe you'll end up as like a uh an accidental iPad mini user

00:48:29 ◼   ► after do doing this.

00:48:30 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:48:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean but you know a lot of people like I've I've heard

00:48:33 ◼   ► a lot of people say uh Um that they that, you know, why don't

00:48:37 ◼   ► an iPhone Pro and an iPad mini and you know it's it's like the

00:48:40 ◼   ► similar price to just get both of those things.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Um and it's because I don't want two different devices.

00:48:46 ◼   ► The whole appeal of this is that it's one device that is always with

00:48:49 ◼   ► you in your pocket.

00:48:51 ◼   ► Now, you know, I do think uh obviously there's downsides.

00:48:54 ◼   ► You know, there's the the camera systems are are worse in a lot of

00:48:58 ◼   ► ways.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Um there's, you know, I'm sure the speakers are gonna be worse.

00:49:01 ◼   ► Thicker and heavier.

00:49:02 ◼   ► Yeah it's obviously y significantly thicker and heavier, um, which I will not like

00:49:07 ◼   ► at all in the summertime and you know, in shorts it's gonna be ridiculous

00:49:10 ◼   ► bouncing around in my pocket.

00:49:11 ◼   ► But there is a lot opened up by this.

00:49:14 ◼   ► Like there are so many tasks, you know, because I am over the age

00:49:19 ◼   ► of thirty-five.

00:49:20 ◼   ► Um I don't there are some tasks that I'm just like, I'll just wait

00:49:23 ◼   ► till I get to my computer for this because the phone screen is too

00:49:26 ◼   ► small to do this comfortably.

00:49:27 ◼   ► Uh or maybe I'll you know, I want to open up multiple tabs and

00:49:30 ◼   ► go back and forth or have bouncing bounce between different things and like, yeah,

00:49:33 ◼   ► some of that won't change you know, if I'm researching a major purchase, I'm

00:49:36 ◼   ► probably doing that like mostly on a computer.

00:49:39 ◼   ► Um, but there are a lot of tasks that I attempt to do on

00:49:44 ◼   ► my phone that would just be a lot easier um if I had, you

00:49:48 ◼   ► know, something else, um, you know, with a bigger screen.

00:49:50 ◼   ► And and this the duo will be able to bridge that gap, not for

00:49:54 ◼   ► all tasks, but for many tasks.

00:49:56 ◼   ► Even something as simple as like You know, there are some times where I

00:50:01 ◼   ► want to bring a laptop somewhere because, you know, if I'm gonna be if

00:50:06 ◼   ► I'm going somewhere like overnight, but I don't know like um is my server

00:50:11 ◼   ► gonna explode in the middle of night and I'm gonna I'm gonna have to

00:50:13 ◼   ► like SSH into something and fix it?

00:50:15 ◼   ► These days I just bring a Mac.

00:50:17 ◼   ► I bring I bring my travel laptop because oh well, no big deal.

00:50:20 ◼   ► But there are some situations where I could just bring this and I might

00:50:26 ◼   ► be okay, especially if I get one of those dumb little pocket keyboard things

00:50:29 ◼   ► that like folds up, you know, like yeah, there's all sorts of of ways

00:50:33 ◼   ► to make this work uh as like a little mini workstation.

00:50:36 ◼   ► And people have been doing this with iPads for years but I just don't

00:50:40 ◼   ► like the iPad.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Uh I I want to like the iPad, but I don't know.

00:50:44 ◼   ► But there are parts of the iPad I like, and I wish I liked

00:50:49 ◼   ► the rest of the iPad enough to always have one with me, but I

00:50:52 ◼   ► don't and one of those parts is the Apple Pencil.

00:50:56 ◼   ► I love using the Apple Pencil, even though I'm not an artist at all

00:50:59 ◼   ► and I hardly ever handwrite any notes, but when I do, I like having

00:51:04 ◼   ► that.

00:51:04 ◼   ► I like, you know, earlier today I I like I was having a conversation

00:51:07 ◼   ► and I wanted to quickly doodle some graphs, like just some basic, like, you

00:51:11 ◼   ► know, shapes of like, okay, you know, a linear curve, an exponential curve.

00:51:14 ◼   ► And I grabbed my remarkable tablet, powered it on, and you know, took it

00:51:18 ◼   ► out like it w it was great for that purpose, but like if I

00:51:22 ◼   ► had this, yeah, I could just take that out and I could even I

00:51:26 ◼   ► mean it's big enough I could just doodle it with my finger even.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Like that's step one is like you don't even need the apple pencil for

00:51:31 ◼   ► for like Sharpie on a post it note type granularity.

00:51:34 ◼   ► You know, you could do that with your finger.

00:51:36 ◼   ► Um but with you know, with this size screen, like if you have an

00:51:40 ◼   ► Apple pencil on this size screen, that's about the s that's almost as big

00:51:45 ◼   ► as a lot of like pocket notebooks that people use.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Uh or it's actually bigger.

00:51:49 ◼   ► It's a mole skin, it's bigger than the field notes.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Like so that becomes like an a a potentially interesting digital notebook before that

00:51:58 ◼   ► you know so there are things like that that I'm interested in and that

00:52:02 ◼   ► I think could be could be you know good markets to get into or

00:52:05 ◼   ► at least good tools for you know for me to use myself.

00:52:08 ◼   ► So there's all sorts of stuff like that.

00:52:10 ◼   ► Like part of what is daunting from a developer point of view is that

00:52:15 ◼   ► it's not just a bigger iPhone.

00:52:17 ◼   ► It's a smaller iPhone that becomes a much bigger iPhone that can also be

00:52:21 ◼   ► a laptop sort of clamshell mode or a tent and all these different other

00:52:25 ◼   ► like shapes that it can be in, all of those both open up possibilities

00:52:30 ◼   ► as a user and a developer, and also create burdens as a developer to

00:52:36 ◼   ► very, very quickly make your app not suck in all these different positions and

00:52:40 ◼   ► stuff that it that it might end up in.

00:52:43 ◼   ► And we have, you know, no time to do it and literally still no

00:52:47 ◼   ► tools to do it.

00:52:48 ◼   ► So it is totally, I think, a consistent view to say both this sucks

00:52:53 ◼   ► as developers right now.

00:52:55 ◼   ► And also as users, this is very exciting.

00:52:58 ◼   ► And I can't wait to get my hands on one.

00:53:00 ◼   ► And I'm trying my hardest to, you know, do whatever it takes to get

00:53:04 ◼   ► one on day one as soon as we can.

00:53:06 ◼   ► Um, but between now and then it's gonna be absolute hell as a developer.

00:53:10 ◼   ► I mean the two things are related.

00:53:11 ◼   ► The reason it sucks as a developer is also the exact same reason why

00:53:14 ◼   ► it's exciting as a user, because in theory you're gonna get to try all

00:53:17 ◼   ► sorts of new things in apps.

00:53:18 ◼   ► Unfortunately, you're developer apps and you have to make all those new things.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:21 ◼   ► And I see a lot of commentary going around with people basically trying to

00:53:26 ◼   ► rationalize why this sucks.

00:53:28 ◼   ► And that's a very healthy human response.

00:53:30 ◼   ► Because the response is first of all, it's really expensive, so you don't you

00:53:35 ◼   ► don't you're trying to just Disregard it so that you don't have to consider

00:53:38 ◼   ► buying it because it's really expensive, or you don't have to feel bad that

00:53:41 ◼   ► you can't or won't buy it because it's expensive.

00:53:43 ◼   ► So their typical response, disregard it.

00:53:47 ◼   ► Find some way to say, ah, it's not it, it's I don't that that's

00:53:49 ◼   ► that thing sucks.

00:53:50 ◼   ► Um Secondly, there will be parts of it that suck because it's the first

00:53:55 ◼   ► version.

00:53:55 ◼   ► Like I'm sure there's always gonna be like visible crease lines after a relatively

00:54:00 ◼   ► short time.

00:54:00 ◼   ► I'm sure there's gonna, you know, you're gonna be able to notice some of

00:54:03 ◼   ► those underscreen camera, you know, dim areas and stuff like that.

00:54:06 ◼   ► There it is gonna be physically odd in certain ways.

00:54:09 ◼   ► It is gonna suck for left handers at least for a little while.

00:54:12 ◼   ► I'm sure there's eventually gonna be software toggles, but like there there will there

00:54:15 ◼   ► will be parts of it that do suck, but there's also a lot of

00:54:19 ◼   ► promise here and it doesn't all suck.

00:54:22 ◼   ► And at some point down the road, they'll they'll make one with better cameras,

00:54:27 ◼   ► and they'll make one that yeah adds an action button somewhere for John.

00:54:30 ◼   ► And so like at some point down the road, many of these things will,

00:54:34 ◼   ► you know, be improved in, you know, in future versions.

00:54:38 ◼   ► Um but this first version, like, it's there's a lot of reasons for people

00:54:44 ◼   ► to love this thing, I bet.

00:54:45 ◼   ► And the reactions from people who have tried folding phones of this size are

00:54:49 ◼   ► very, very good.

00:54:51 ◼   ► And so I think it's gonna be a hit.

00:54:53 ◼   ► It's just gonna be a hit it that's gonna be pretty small relative to

00:54:57 ◼   ► the rest of the iPhones.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Like, you know, people are saying it's like a like a two percent global

00:55:03 ◼   ► industry for foldables so far, or global market share for foldables.

00:55:07 ◼   ► And so if this if this ends up being two percent of all iPhones

00:55:10 ◼   ► sold, first of all, I think it'll probably be more than that.

00:55:12 ◼   ► But I don't think it's gonna be a ton more than that.

00:55:15 ◼   ► And that's that would still be a lot of units.

00:55:18 ◼   ► But if you want to say it sucks, you'll still find ways that that

00:55:22 ◼   ► you can say that because it's gonna be a low percentage of market share.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Uh but I think every single person who buys this thing is gonna have

00:55:29 ◼   ► a very, very good chance of loving it.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Because that's what typically happens in foldables.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Like people who get into foldables tend to love them.

00:55:37 ◼   ► And I think this is way better than the Android ones in almost every

00:55:41 ◼   ► way.

00:55:42 ◼   ► So I think it's going to be a big hit.

00:55:44 ◼   ► I think they're going to be back ordered for months and it's going to

00:55:48 ◼   ► be very difficult to get.

00:55:50 ◼   ► And that's because it's going to be a big hit.

00:55:53 ◼   ► Very, very curious and excited to see how this lands from a um from

00:55:59 ◼   ► from you know a a market share perspective because I I think it is

00:56:03 ◼   ► likely it's going to extremes.

00:56:05 ◼   ► It will either be a gener a giant hit, like you said, or it'll

00:56:07 ◼   ► be an iPhone Air.

00:56:09 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:56:10 ◼   ► There is no way that this ends up selling as little as the iPhone

00:56:14 ◼   ► Air.

00:56:15 ◼   ► I'm telling you.

00:56:15 ◼   ► It's not even gonna it's gonna blow the iPhone Air out of the water.

00:56:18 ◼   ► I I think you're gonna granted, that's like blowing like, you know, a little

00:56:21 ◼   ► toy bathtub tugboat out of the water.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Like it's it's a pretty small target.

00:56:25 ◼   ► But the iPhone Air, as I mentioned, I don't want to be too cruel

00:56:29 ◼   ► to it, but the iPhone Air has very little reason for almost anyone to

00:56:33 ◼   ► choose it over the other iPhone iPhones.

00:56:35 ◼   ► Whereas the iPhone Duo has substantial reasons for people to choose it.

00:56:39 ◼   ► So I I think it's going to do great.

00:56:41 ◼   ► Yeah, we'll see.

00:56:41 ◼   ► But I I just wanted to say because uh irrespective of feedback, I feel

00:56:46 ◼   ► like I was so shell-shocked by the developer story, which as of today is

00:56:51 ◼   ► still not getting better.

00:56:52 ◼   ► There's a new version of X code, not including the simulator for the iPhone

00:56:56 ◼   ► Duo, but that was amazing.

00:56:57 ◼   ► So the the news drops today.

00:56:59 ◼   ► X code twenty six point two beta release.

00:57:01 ◼   ► Like, wait, what?

00:57:01 ◼   ► We were waiting for twenty six point one.

00:57:03 ◼   ► What happened?

00:57:04 ◼   ► And then we go and look and f and at least Apple had the

00:57:06 ◼   ► courtesy on the download page to have a big gray box that basically says

00:57:10 ◼   ► this is not the one you're looking for if you're looking for duo development.

00:57:13 ◼   ► It's like, okay.

00:57:14 ◼   ► Um, so we have twenty six point zero, we have twenty-six point two beta,

00:57:19 ◼   ► twenty-six point one beta, still to come sometime later this month.

00:57:24 ◼   ► Well twenty-seven, right?

00:57:25 ◼   ► Sorry, twenty-seven, yes.

00:57:26 ◼   ► Um still to come.

00:57:28 ◼   ► So we still don't even have a simulator to try this with, let alone,

00:57:33 ◼   ► you know, be able to adjust our apps to actually try any of this

00:57:37 ◼   ► stuff.

00:57:38 ◼   ► So yeah, the developer story for this is incredibly fumbled.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Like it's gonna be a mess.

00:57:45 ◼   ► And I'm still substantially irked as a result of what they're because like honestly,

00:57:51 ◼   ► I think I think if they're never going to do this, but I think

00:57:54 ◼   ► a fair thing for Apple to do would be to not allow App Store

00:58:00 ◼   ► reviews from the iPhone Duo for the first three months.

00:58:03 ◼   ► Uh years ago they changed the policy for beta.

00:58:06 ◼   ► They used to allow reviews from betas.

00:58:08 ◼   ► They and years ago they s they realized like what was happening was people

00:58:12 ◼   ► would install the developer beta one on their phone on day one.

00:58:15 ◼   ► Some app would not work on beta one because the developer hadn't had access

00:58:19 ◼   ► to the beta until that day.

00:58:21 ◼   ► And the person would go one star in the app store.

00:58:23 ◼   ► So Apple realize, okay, this is unfair to developers.

00:58:27 ◼   ► So you can't you can no longer leave App Store reviews or ratings on

00:58:30 ◼   ► beta versions of iOS.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Well, I think for a similar reason, and again, they're never going to do

00:58:37 ◼   ► this, but I think for a similar reason, they shouldn't review apps on the

00:58:41 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:58:42 ◼   ► Duo when developers have had almost no time to adopt to it either.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And uh again, they're not going to do this.

00:58:48 ◼   ► But it would be great if they like just disallowed those reviews for a

00:58:51 ◼   ► few months.

00:58:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:52 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:58:53 ◼   ► I'm sure it won't be a little bit more.

00:58:54 ◼   ► There's no chance.

00:58:57 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Granola.

00:59:00 ◼   ► Maybe you're like me and you are perhaps a little bit overconfident about your

00:59:05 ◼   ► memory.

00:59:05 ◼   ► And maybe you think, oh, surely I'll remember that important action item from that

00:59:09 ◼   ► meeting with my boss and my boss's boss.

00:59:11 ◼   ► Or maybe what really happens is it goes in one ear and out the

00:59:15 ◼   ► other.

00:59:15 ◼   ► And I'm not proud of that, but let's be honest, that's how I am.

00:59:17 ◼   ► Well, what you can do is have something on your side to help you

00:59:21 ◼   ► with this.

00:59:22 ◼   ► And that something could be granola.

00:59:24 ◼   ► Granola is an AI-powered notepad that makes your meeting notes useful.

00:59:27 ◼   ► It captures what happens in your meetings and turns it into clean structured notes

00:59:31 ◼   ► with decisions and action items pulled out and made easy to find.

00:59:35 ◼   ► So I did the unthinkable.

00:59:37 ◼   ► Not only did I have a meeting just for y'all but I did the

00:59:41 ◼   ► unthinkable unthinkable and I solicited John Syracuse to have a meeting with me.

00:59:45 ◼   ► And we did.

00:59:46 ◼   ► And we had this meeting on Google Meet.

00:59:47 ◼   ► We had it with granola.

00:59:48 ◼   ► And what we talked about was ATP member specials, what we think we should

00:59:51 ◼   ► do what we think we shouldn't, how we can improve ideas.

00:59:54 ◼   ► And to be honest with you, it was actually very productive.

00:59:56 ◼   ► But I'm here to tell you that having granola in the room was really

01:00:00 ◼   ► nice because not only did it capture a full-on transcript, but at the end

01:00:04 ◼   ► of the meeting, it came up with notes about what it thought we should

01:00:08 ◼   ► do or take and take note of.

01:00:10 ◼   ► And it did a really, really good job.

01:00:11 ◼   ► So uh it came up with headings such as secret weird thing, and I

01:00:16 ◼   ► don't want any more, but we did talk about a secret weird thing.

01:00:18 ◼   ► And it doesn't have like a single list of bullets, it even has bullets

01:00:23 ◼   ► and sub-bullets.

01:00:24 ◼   ► It has markdown style headings with you know the hash mark at the front.

01:00:28 ◼   ► It did a really good job.

01:00:29 ◼   ► And at the very end, it calls out next steps and it assigns them

01:00:33 ◼   ► to each of us.

01:00:34 ◼   ► It's really, really slick and really well done.

01:00:37 ◼   ► So once you try granola on a first meeting, it's hard to go without.

01:00:41 ◼   ► You can try it totally free.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Head to granola.ai slash ATP.

01:00:45 ◼   ► That's G-R-A-N-O-L-A.ai slash ATP to get your time back.

01:00:50 ◼   ► Go to granola.ai slash ATP and try it on your next call.

01:00:54 ◼   ► Thank you to Granola for sponsoring the show.

01:01:00 ◼   ► All right, let's talk uh some other videos.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Uh Tom's Guide's Mark Spoonower and Tech Radar's Lance Ulanoff interviewed uh Turnus and

01:01:10 ◼   ► Jaws in two parts.

01:01:11 ◼   ► Like one of them was on the Tom Scott YouTube, one of them was

01:01:13 ◼   ► on Tech Raiders Utah YouTube.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Um and Thomas Rickert at the verge quoted Jaws from that interview.

01:01:21 ◼   ► Uh we'll put a link to both parts in the show notes.

01:01:23 ◼   ► I believe this is from part one.

01:01:25 ◼   ► Uh Jaws said, people knew through leaks that we were working on a foldable,

01:01:29 ◼   ► said Jaws.

01:01:30 ◼   ► Unfortunately, they got the aspect ratio and a lot of coincidental instances instances of

01:01:35 ◼   ► people finding that an interesting aspect ratio by P and now I'm sorry, reading

01:01:39 ◼   ► from Thomas Ricker, by people Jasmine, Samsung, Huawei, and Xiaomi, all who all announced

01:01:44 ◼   ► foldables with similar apps aspect ratios ahead of Apple.

01:01:47 ◼   ► What did remain a secret in the is the folding nanotext text.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Textured display unique to the iPhone Duo.

01:01:52 ◼   ► Now quoting Jaws again.

01:01:53 ◼   ► What I'm super proud of, we kept it secret.

01:01:56 ◼   ► We put the extra security on it.

01:01:57 ◼   ► We didn't.

01:01:59 ◼   ► We had a very funny code name, which I won't repeat, which had nothing

01:02:02 ◼   ► to do with it.

01:02:03 ◼   ► First of all, Mark German, get on that we gotta we gotta know what

01:02:05 ◼   ► this code name was.

01:02:06 ◼   ► Right?

01:02:07 ◼   ► Poor Jaws.

01:02:08 ◼   ► He's out there being like, look, every millimeter of this phone hardware leaked.

01:02:13 ◼   ► Uh, but with this one piece of the hardware that we kept secret and

01:02:17 ◼   ► we're so proud that we kept uh the matte coding on the screen.

01:02:21 ◼   ► Secret.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Like, okay.

01:02:23 ◼   ► By all accounts, it's great coding.

01:02:24 ◼   ► Like people who have seen it Take your victory where you can get them,

01:02:27 ◼   ► but like uh you know, it's so thoroughly leaked that as as the as

01:02:32 ◼   ► Thomas noted, the competitors had enough time to make their own copycat phones and

01:02:36 ◼   ► release them before Apple's phone was out.

01:02:37 ◼   ► And if they show what they should be proud of, and they did talk

01:02:39 ◼   ► about it in the interview, was like we kept the software secret.

01:02:41 ◼   ► So they did do that.

01:02:42 ◼   ► Um uh obviously the supply chain for software is considerably narrower than the supply

01:02:48 ◼   ► chain required to make a hardware product like the iPhone Doo, which is why

01:02:51 ◼   ► all these things leak like crazy.

01:02:52 ◼   ► But I just like seeing Jaws out there saying, Yeah, we we put extra

01:02:55 ◼   ► secrecy on it.

01:02:56 ◼   ► It's like, okay, well uh if you had put that extra secrecy on on

01:02:59 ◼   ► the phone hardware, do you think that would have helped?

01:03:01 ◼   ► The answer is no.

01:03:02 ◼   ► There's no stopping it.

01:03:03 ◼   ► Like unless you're gonna make all the phones yourself at Apple Park.

01:03:06 ◼   ► Um every every phone you make is gonna leak down to the millimeter now

01:03:10 ◼   ► and forever.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Sorry, Jaws.

01:03:12 ◼   ► I will say broadly, um I really enjoyed this interview um for two reasons.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Number one, I have the same shirt as Jaws.

01:03:20 ◼   ► You would.

01:03:21 ◼   ► I was proud of myself for spotting it.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Um number two and it's a great shirt.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Um number two

01:03:27 ◼   ► it was really great seeing John Turnus in this interview.

01:03:31 ◼   ► Like now being CEO of Apple, you have a you have a CEO doing

01:03:37 ◼   ► interviews about the products where he shows personality

01:03:43 ◼   ► and opinions and deep knowledge of the details of the product.

01:03:49 ◼   ► This these are things we never got from Tim Cook.

01:03:52 ◼   ► And yes, everyone's being very kind to Tim.

01:03:55 ◼   ► Oh, he's not the kind not the kind of leader.

01:03:56 ◼   ► And that's true, he wasn't, and he was what we needed at the time,

01:03:58 ◼   ► and blah blah.

01:03:59 ◼   ► Yes, that's true.

01:04:00 ◼   ► It's really great and refreshing to have somebody now in that position who is

01:04:05 ◼   ► showing personality and points of view and explaining product decisions in ways that Tim

01:04:11 ◼   ► Cook never did and probably never could.

01:04:14 ◼   ► Because that again, that wasn't the kind of person he was.

01:04:17 ◼   ► It's great, it's refreshing.

01:04:19 ◼   ► And

01:04:20 ◼   ► you know, we we're only seeing the very, very first couple of moments of

01:04:26 ◼   ► Turnus's uh tenure here.

01:04:28 ◼   ► And again, we we don't know how he's gonna feel on issues that might

01:04:31 ◼   ► be more controversial to us, but at least this part really shows this is

01:04:36 ◼   ► a product person.

01:04:38 ◼   ► He knows about the products.

01:04:40 ◼   ► He has that very deep knowledge.

01:04:41 ◼   ► In a similar way, like I've always been very impressed in interviews by cr

01:04:45 ◼   ► of Craig Federighi, because Federighi also You know, despite being like a high level

01:04:50 ◼   ► executive, Federighi knows very deep details about a lot of the software and a

01:04:56 ◼   ► lot of the like the the algorithms and the decision making and and the

01:04:59 ◼   ► d like he he knows deep stuff because Federighi is a nerd first.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Like he's an engineer who happened to rise into the rise through the ranks.

01:05:08 ◼   ► And John Turnus is also like he is that engineering mind.

01:05:13 ◼   ► He knows the hardware details like the little thing he said about like the

01:05:17 ◼   ► the moving parts about the iPhone, um aperture blades, like you can tell he

01:05:22 ◼   ► knows deeply what's going on in these products.

01:05:25 ◼   ► And for a company that the products are everything um except for the services.

01:05:32 ◼   ► But the products are the main thing.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Uh that's really great.

01:05:36 ◼   ► And I w I'm so happy to see this.

01:05:38 ◼   ► And I'm not I'm not that surprised because we've seen Turnus do interviews actually

01:05:43 ◼   ► even with Jaws to these same people like last year.

01:05:46 ◼   ► Like I've so it's it's not like not like we've never seen him before,

01:05:50 ◼   ► but to know that this is the CEO of Apple now and and I

01:05:54 ◼   ► think he's also he's gaining confidence and he's he's kind of letting loose a

01:05:58 ◼   ► little bit more and you're able to see like more of his personality.

01:06:03 ◼   ► And so far I really like what I see.

01:06:05 ◼   ► Yep, I agree wholeheartedly.

01:06:07 ◼   ► I mean, I I don't have any particular complaints about Tim Cook particularly from

01:06:12 ◼   ► a personality.

01:06:13 ◼   ► Well, let me try that again.

01:06:14 ◼   ► But I'm saying uh Tim was always going to be guarded.

01:06:16 ◼   ► That I feel like that's just who Tim is based on no facts, but

01:06:19 ◼   ► that's the vibe I get.

01:06:21 ◼   ► And Tim, I think, has taken his media training very seriously.

01:06:24 ◼   ► Uh as we spoke about last episode, the way he delivered his one or

01:06:28 ◼   ► two lines in the in the intro keynote, I thought were more personality that

01:06:32 ◼   ► that we got out of Tim than we did in the fifteen years prior.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Um, there's been a couple of flashes of exception.

01:06:37 ◼   ► I think one of you cited the uh, you know, get out of the

01:06:40 ◼   ► stock or I forget exactly what he said.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Um, but like, you know, if if you don't believe in vi environmental stuff,

01:06:45 ◼   ► this stock isn't you or something like that.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Um, but I feel like Turnus is way more a human than Tim is.

01:06:53 ◼   ► And that is so refreshing and exciting.

01:06:55 ◼   ► And and I am really here for, you know, who is this person?

01:07:00 ◼   ► I feel like Tim, as much as we snark and joke about our idiot

01:07:04 ◼   ► president who called him Tim Apple, I kinda get it because he kind of

01:07:08 ◼   ► is Tim Apple, you know?

01:07:10 ◼   ► Like there's so little Tim outside of his, you know, relationship with Apple.

01:07:14 ◼   ► And I feel like we're already getting a sense that Turnus, while clearly media

01:07:19 ◼   ► trained, is willing to by comparison anyway, wear his heart on his sleeve and

01:07:24 ◼   ► be more of a human being than Tim ever was.

01:07:26 ◼   ► And I'm really here for it.

01:07:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like in this interview Turnus was very similar to how he

01:07:31 ◼   ► was when he wasn't CEO.

01:07:32 ◼   ► So in other words, having two days into the job or whatever being CEO

01:07:36 ◼   ► has not changed him, 'cause he totally did this interview, not as I am

01:07:39 ◼   ► the Apple CEO, but just as the same John Turners you've seen do these

01:07:42 ◼   ► interviews for years.

01:07:43 ◼   ► And which means he was relaxed and he was casual and you did see

01:07:46 ◼   ► his personality because you always saw that from him.

01:07:48 ◼   ► So it's nice to see, first of all, that he didn't like, well, now

01:07:51 ◼   ► that I'm the CEO, I have to act differently.

01:07:52 ◼   ► He didn't feel that at all.

01:07:53 ◼   ► He didn't actly.

01:07:54 ◼   ► But I will say speaking of Federigi, uh, one of the things I will

01:07:58 ◼   ► miss from and I know this was never really in the cards, but like

01:08:00 ◼   ► let's say Federigi had become CEO.

01:08:03 ◼   ► Federigi remains the only senior executive from Apple, maybe with the possible exception of

01:08:10 ◼   ► Schiller occasionally, who's kind of on his way out the door, and sometimes Jobs,

01:08:14 ◼   ► but f but Federigi the most.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Uh he does the thing that back in the day only Steve Jobs would

01:08:20 ◼   ► do, in that Steve Jobs would offer up information to the press because he

01:08:26 ◼   ► felt like it.

01:08:27 ◼   ► Inside information that he would have like fired other employees for revealing if he

01:08:30 ◼   ► felt like talking about it, he would because he's Steve Jobs.

01:08:33 ◼   ► He's this like who's gonna tell him no?

01:08:35 ◼   ► And so he did it all the time.

01:08:37 ◼   ► You'd you know it'd be some interview and Jobs would go off on some

01:08:40 ◼   ► tangent and he would say, yeah, when we did X, we did Y and

01:08:42 ◼   ► Z and Q.

01:08:43 ◼   ► And like if anybody else had said that, instant firing.

01:08:45 ◼   ► But Jobs could say, because what the hell?

01:08:47 ◼   ► Federigi does that.

01:08:48 ◼   ► When he tells stories about software, he always reveals infos that has never been

01:08:53 ◼   ► revealed anywhere else.

01:08:54 ◼   ► And it's mostly just of interest to nerds or whatever.

01:08:56 ◼   ► But like, d he's not pre-clearing all that with people.

01:08:59 ◼   ► He just he's just like, yeah, when we did this, we thought of this

01:09:01 ◼   ► and we did that and we tried this.

01:09:02 ◼   ► And it's like that's not that's not the media playbook.

01:09:05 ◼   ► Like d Craig, don't we don't tell them anything about our process or what

01:09:09 ◼   ► we did or whatever.

01:09:11 ◼   ► He's always doing that.

01:09:11 ◼   ► And he gets away with it because it's like e details that only nerds

01:09:14 ◼   ► care about, right?

01:09:15 ◼   ► Turnus is not like that.

01:09:17 ◼   ► Turnus, in all his past interviews and presentations, usually does not uh accidentally or

01:09:23 ◼   ► intentionally tell you some detail about their process.

01:09:27 ◼   ► I feel like everything Feder uh everything Turnus ever says about a product is

01:09:31 ◼   ► something that has already been uh cleared as a talking point.

01:09:35 ◼   ► And that is not going to change when he's CEO.

01:09:36 ◼   ► If anything, you would think it would go in the other direction, but it

01:09:38 ◼   ► seems to be just the the same.

01:09:40 ◼   ► But that is one of the things I really enjoy about Federigi is that

01:09:42 ◼   ► he for whatever reason he feels like uh he has the authority to reveal

01:09:48 ◼   ► you know minor internal details of their process of creating software because he's the

01:09:52 ◼   ► head of software guy.

01:09:54 ◼   ► And And I guess no one ever yells at him, so he's like I'll

01:09:56 ◼   ► just keep doing that.

01:09:56 ◼   ► So I do enjoy that about him.

01:09:58 ◼   ► I agree.

01:10:00 ◼   ► All right, moving right along, let's talk uh iPhone side dock, friend of the

01:10:04 ◼   ► show, Steven Robles points out that, you know, people are saying that th this

01:10:08 ◼   ► is the first time the iPhone dock is on the right, but they're getting

01:10:10 ◼   ► the iPhone six plus, which would in landscape put the dock on the right.

01:10:14 ◼   ► I mean it kept the dock where it was, but it would rotate all

01:10:16 ◼   ► the di all the icons.

01:10:17 ◼   ► I'd totally forgotten about this because I obviously never had one of these big

01:10:20 ◼   ► phones.

01:10:20 ◼   ► This was I guess this was their notion of how to do big phones

01:10:23 ◼   ► in the iPhone 6 Plus.

01:10:24 ◼   ► What does it do now on the Maxes when you rotate it?

01:10:26 ◼   ► It just it just doesn't rotate, right?

01:10:28 ◼   ► The springboard doesn't rotate.

01:10:29 ◼   ► I understand the question and I don't have one within arm's reach to try

01:10:32 ◼   ► it, but I'm not sure.

01:10:34 ◼   ► Yeah I believe springboard only rotated like on that first version.

01:10:37 ◼   ► Um and but but now you still on the on the plus phones you

01:10:41 ◼   ► and I believe on the air too, you still have like if you rotate

01:10:44 ◼   ► things like Apple Mail, you'll you get the sidebar.

01:10:46 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:47 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:47 ◼   ► But like I think the reason they don't Springboard is because it basically it

01:10:50 ◼   ► moves everyone's icons.

01:10:51 ◼   ► I will once again point out that all the people who are like railing

01:10:54 ◼   ► against spatial interfaces, guess what the iPhone home screen is, man.

01:10:58 ◼   ► It's a spatial interface.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And if you move those icons, like if you rotate them and all of

01:11:02 ◼   ► a sudden they rearrange like they do on the iPad, it is extremely jarring

01:11:06 ◼   ► because people remember where they are by their position and appearance.

01:11:11 ◼   ► All right.

01:11:12 ◼   ► You feel better, John.

01:11:14 ◼   ► Uh also from Stephen Robles, uh he put together a short video showing how

01:11:20 ◼   ► yes, the duo does support MagSafe, that the we know that's been stated after

01:11:24 ◼   ► the keynote, but that may not be as great as we think it will

01:11:28 ◼   ► be.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And so his comparison was a couple of things.

01:11:31 ◼   ► First of all, the iPhone Air and the way the camera plateau interacted, where

01:11:36 ◼   ► where where it was in relation to the MagSafe thing.

01:11:38 ◼   ► But more importantly, Steven got a pre-release version of I forget who it was,

01:11:42 ◼   ► but somebody's case for the duo.

01:11:44 ◼   ► So this is a reasonable stand-in for what the duo will be like and

01:11:49 ◼   ► was pointing out that a lot of Magsafe accessories, for example, batteries or wallets,

01:11:53 ◼   ► are going to be just too darn too darn tall for the duo.

01:11:57 ◼   ► And so anything that's bigger than like a pop socket, you might need to

01:12:01 ◼   ► replace or not use at all because there's just not enough surface area on

01:12:05 ◼   ► the back of the duo to support something as big as a wallet or

01:12:08 ◼   ► a battery or something like that.

01:12:09 ◼   ► There's not so much that they can support, it's just that they like the

01:12:11 ◼   ► circle where the magnets are, fine.

01:12:13 ◼   ► Line up the circle where the magnets are.

01:12:14 ◼   ► Maybe that will fit.

01:12:15 ◼   ► If you're lucky, when you line up the two circles with the magnets, it

01:12:18 ◼   ► won't because you'll be sitting on top of the camera plateau because it's so

01:12:21 ◼   ► short and squat.

01:12:22 ◼   ► But let's say y you know it does lay flat on the circle.

01:12:26 ◼   ► Is the rest of that magnetic device within the borders of the phone or

01:12:29 ◼   ► is some part of it sticking out?

01:12:30 ◼   ► It's like the this comparison was to the um the Apple MagSafe battery pack

01:12:34 ◼   ► that was Only for the air, because if you took it and put it

01:12:37 ◼   ► on another phone and like hung off the bottom of the thing or whatever.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Um yeah, that's just a fact of life.

01:12:41 ◼   ► Like MagSafe compatible.

01:12:43 ◼   ► It was easy to say that and make that a reality when the phones

01:12:47 ◼   ► were more or less the same proportion and it was just like a big

01:12:50 ◼   ► one and a small one.

01:12:50 ◼   ► You could make like, for example, a wallet accessory that worked on any iPhone

01:12:54 ◼   ► with MagSafe, but the duo is just such a different aspect ratio and size

01:12:59 ◼   ► that I think there's just gonna have to be duo specific accessories.

01:13:02 ◼   ► You know, like don't don't just buy a magSif accessory assuming it will fit

01:13:05 ◼   ► on the back of your duo.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Like either measure it or, you know, have a good return policy.

01:13:11 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:12 ◼   ► Uh with regard to face ID, Pedro Fernandez writes: I don't think I've heard

01:13:15 ◼   ► you mention it, but the iPhone Duo, if for the iPhone Duo to have

01:13:18 ◼   ► face ID besides the challenge of fitting the hardware on such a thin device,

01:13:21 ◼   ► it would require twice the hardware in an already expensive device.

01:13:25 ◼   ► Only if you want it to be able to work open and closed, which

01:13:27 ◼   ► uh there are there are features of the phone that only work open and

01:13:30 ◼   ► only work closed.

01:13:31 ◼   ► Close.

01:13:31 ◼   ► So yeah, that but yeah, that's it's gonna be a challenge.

01:13:34 ◼   ► Hopefully they uh they make this a surmountable challenge.

01:13:37 ◼   ► Unlike the apparently unsurmountable challenge of putting face ID on a Mac.

01:13:41 ◼   ► We just don't have enough room in the desktop Mac monitors to put face

01:13:45 ◼   ► ID scanner.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Sorry, it can't fit.

01:13:47 ◼   ► It's impossible.

01:13:48 ◼   ► But maybe on this incredibly thin phone in version three or four they'll have

01:13:51 ◼   ► face ID.

01:13:52 ◼   ► And if they only put it in one spot, that's better than nothing.

01:13:54 ◼   ► And honestly, like I feel like most of the time you're phone, wouldn't it

01:13:58 ◼   ► start in a folded state?

01:14:00 ◼   ► So don't you want to unlock on the folded one?

01:14:01 ◼   ► I guess people want to take it out of their pocket, open it up,

01:14:03 ◼   ► and start using it.

01:14:04 ◼   ► It's like but wait, you didn't face ID yet.

01:14:06 ◼   ► So yeah, twice the hardware would be great, but uh we'll see.

01:14:09 ◼   ► Yeah, this is one of those things like in thinking about what is another

01:14:12 ◼   ► face idea, this never crossed my mind.

01:14:14 ◼   ► I never even realized like, oh yeah, they would need two of them.

01:14:18 ◼   ► Or would they?

01:14:19 ◼   ► Like I said, maybe they just put it in one place, right?

01:14:21 ◼   ► Nah, they wouldn't.

01:14:22 ◼   ► They would they would they would either put it both places or in either

01:14:24 ◼   ► place.

01:14:25 ◼   ► Oh speaking of the interview and speaking of the duo, uh, there was a

01:14:28 ◼   ► segment of that I think it was the the Turnus Jaw's interview where the

01:14:31 ◼   ► the interviewers asked about like what about left-handed people?

01:14:33 ◼   ► Isn't gonna be awkward?

01:14:34 ◼   ► Like the stuff that Marco talked about last episode.

01:14:36 ◼   ► Uh people who use their form of the left hand.

01:14:37 ◼   ► To be clear, Marco is not left handed.

01:14:39 ◼   ► He just uses his phone with his left hand and the duo is ill-suited

01:14:42 ◼   ► to that.

01:14:43 ◼   ► And everyone's like, you know, like we said last week, why don't they flip

01:14:45 ◼   ► it like the Apple Watch or whatever?

01:14:46 ◼   ► There are problems with that as well.

01:14:48 ◼   ► But right now, Apple doesn't.

01:14:49 ◼   ► So that was the question posed to them.

01:14:51 ◼   ► And I forget the analogy, but it was something like, uh you know, look,

01:14:55 ◼   ► we don't make like left-handed cars, right?

01:14:58 ◼   ► Like like I mean it's setting aside right-hand drive and stuff, like within the

01:15:00 ◼   ► country, we just put the steering wheel on one side and whether you're lefty

01:15:03 ◼   ► or righty, uh back in the days of stick shift, you're using this stick

01:15:06 ◼   ► shift with your right hand with left-hand drive or whatever.

01:15:09 ◼   ► The gas pedal is always on the right.

01:15:10 ◼   ► It doesn't matter if you're righty or lefty, right?

01:15:11 ◼   ► And the the brake is always to the left of the gas pedal.

01:15:14 ◼   ► Um even on right hand drive, the brake is to the left of the

01:15:16 ◼   ► gas pedal.

01:15:17 ◼   ► So they they had other examples too.

01:15:19 ◼   ► I forget what they were.

01:15:20 ◼   ► I'm just remembering a car one, but like that there are products that are

01:15:23 ◼   ► just they're just made the way they're made and your handedness is, you know,

01:15:27 ◼   ► you have to you just have to pick and this is just the way

01:15:29 ◼   ► this product works.

01:15:30 ◼   ► And that's easy to say, the hegemony of the right handed people, right?

01:15:34 ◼   ► But uh I mean I guess that's I guess that's their uh their answer

01:15:37 ◼   ► for now until and unless they have the version of iOS that uh allows

01:15:41 ◼   ► you to flip it and mirror it.

01:15:42 ◼   ► But as a lot of people pointed out, when you do flip and mirror

01:15:44 ◼   ► it, lots of controls are in really weird places, including things like the cameras

01:15:48 ◼   ► and stuff that are like now on the bottom instead of the top, and

01:15:51 ◼   ► the the volume buttons are in weird places.

01:15:53 ◼   ► So I think I think Margaret was more right in that people will essentially

01:15:56 ◼   ► adapt to this.

01:15:57 ◼   ► I wish I could remember their other analogy, but they were giving analogies of

01:15:59 ◼   ► like devices that are directional that people just get used to.

01:16:04 ◼   ► I guess, you know, again, cars is the only one I could think of,

01:16:07 ◼   ► but I'm sure there are more.

01:16:08 ◼   ► All right.

01:16:09 ◼   ► Let's talk Apple Pencil support.

01:16:10 ◼   ► I know we talked about this a little bit just a moment ago, but

01:16:13 ◼   ► let's talk some more.

01:16:14 ◼   ► Uh Julie Clover over at Mac Rumors writes, it's likely the iPhone Duo doesn't

01:16:17 ◼   ► support The Apple Pencil Pro because there's no magnetic surface for the for charging

01:16:21 ◼   ► the pencil.

01:16:22 ◼   ► The Apple Pencil Pro charges magnetically when connected to a compatible iPad, while the

01:16:25 ◼   ► Apple Pencil with USB C charges with a USB-C port hidden behind a sliding

01:16:29 ◼   ► cap.

01:16:30 ◼   ► Then uh Gruber points out, charging is the least of the problems because the

01:16:34 ◼   ► duo doesn't have a magnetic have the magnetic attachment for the pencil pro, there's

01:16:38 ◼   ► no way to even pair a pencil pro.

01:16:41 ◼   ► Yep.

01:16:41 ◼   ► And Steve Trouton Smith uh also adds in, yeah.

01:16:44 ◼   ► Also let's not forget that the USB C Apple Pencil doesn't have pressure sensitivity,

01:16:49 ◼   ► so the artists are likely posting their already, excuse me, posting their disappointed reactions.

01:16:54 ◼   ► I feel like this backs up the German report that they were planning to

01:16:57 ◼   ► create a bespoke Apple pencil for the iPhone.

01:16:59 ◼   ► Duo that later got cancelled and perhaps the USB C version is the fallback.

01:17:03 ◼   ► I think they should just make a standalone universal pairing or charging dock for

01:17:07 ◼   ► the Apple Pencil Pro and be done with all of this nonsense nonsense, just

01:17:12 ◼   ► like the AirPods case to which Gruber also added, uh, the bottom line is

01:17:16 ◼   ► that Apple's entire pencil compatibility story remains a mess.

01:17:20 ◼   ► True that.

01:17:21 ◼   ► Well, they do a teardown of this thing.

01:17:23 ◼   ► We'll probably be able to see if this rumor about, oh, they plan to

01:17:25 ◼   ► spend special pencil is true because there's probably like the little places for where

01:17:29 ◼   ► the magnets would go.

01:17:29 ◼   ► I forget whether there was some recent device where you could see where they

01:17:32 ◼   ► meant to put uh the the magnets or things for a pencil or whatever

01:17:35 ◼   ► where they just weren't there.

01:17:37 ◼   ► Uh but if that's not there.

01:17:38 ◼   ► Was that the sixteeny with the magsafe magnets, maybe?

01:17:42 ◼   ► I thought maybe it was an iPad, but I don't remember.

01:17:44 ◼   ► Anyway, like if you know, if it's not a decision that was made four

01:17:47 ◼   ► years ago, we'll be able to see evidence of it.

01:17:49 ◼   ► But um, you know, the third parties will surely make stubby little pencils that

01:17:53 ◼   ► are a better fit for the iPhone Duo.

01:17:55 ◼   ► I do wonder if there's attach them to it.

01:17:58 ◼   ► I'm sure third parties will come up with something clever, but if there actually

01:18:01 ◼   ► are little magnets in the edges, that would be great.

01:18:03 ◼   ► But yeah, Apple's pencil strategy is just so so weird.

01:18:07 ◼   ► Like the feature sets are different.

01:18:08 ◼   ► The way they pair is different.

01:18:10 ◼   ► They made that pencil.

01:18:10 ◼   ► It's like look, it doesn't have like no silly cap, no plug, it's magic,

01:18:14 ◼   ► and it goes in the outside of your iPad.

01:18:15 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, but if you're if you don't have an iPad and you

01:18:18 ◼   ► want to use that pencil, you've got a problem.

01:18:20 ◼   ► I mean I don't even think that thing would fit on the side of

01:18:23 ◼   ► like where the where like the magnets are would even fit on the side

01:18:25 ◼   ► of the duo.

01:18:26 ◼   ► So maybe they'll sort this out depending on how popular the pencil actually turns

01:18:30 ◼   ► out to be with the duo.

01:18:31 ◼   ► But right now it just kind of feels like they punted by saying it

01:18:34 ◼   ► supports the cheap kind of pencils that don't have uh pressure sensitivity.

01:18:39 ◼   ► We sell you one of those.

01:18:40 ◼   ► Uh good luck.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I I think what we'll see is third party w I mean the

01:18:45 ◼   ► funny thing is like the the very first Apple pencil with the happy to

01:18:50 ◼   ► see you slash you know popsicle stick uh charging method.

01:18:53 ◼   ► Um that actually would work very well today with USB C because like I

01:18:59 ◼   ► mean obviously you know you would you could engineer one that doesn't comes off

01:19:02 ◼   ► and gets lost or that rolls away.

01:19:05 ◼   ► Uh but um thanks, Johnny.

01:19:07 ◼   ► I've but um you know I I'm sure third party 'cause I as I

01:19:10 ◼   ► mentioned last time, like third party pencils exist on Amazon for like twenty five

01:19:14 ◼   ► bucks and they're they're all just USB C.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Um but if they had the USB C uh I guess plug instead of

01:19:22 ◼   ► the socket, they could theoretically like plug into the bottom of the iPhone and

01:19:27 ◼   ► charge up a little bit to be usable.

01:19:29 ◼   ► Um and you know, same thing with the iPad.

01:19:31 ◼   ► Like it would it would have all the same problems as the the that

01:19:34 ◼   ► original pencil, um, you know, with the exception of the cap loss, but you

01:19:39 ◼   ► could have it with you and have nothing else with you, and you could

01:19:41 ◼   ► charge it with your phone.

01:19:43 ◼   ► And so this is this seems like an obvious third party opportunity for now.

01:19:46 ◼   ► And then maybe down the road, like you know, they're they did a lot

01:19:49 ◼   ► in this version one of the iPhone Duo.

01:19:52 ◼   ► I suspect that there's there's there's a lot that can be added later in

01:19:56 ◼   ► subsequent versions.

01:19:57 ◼   ► I mention earlier, like, yeah, they're probably gonna add better cameras at some point.

01:19:59 ◼   ► You know, they're probably g figure out if they want to do face ID

01:20:02 ◼   ► at some point.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, th it wouldn't surprise me if there's like an iPhone duo,

01:20:08 ◼   ► you know, two or three down the road that supports a new pressure sensitive

01:20:13 ◼   ► smaller Apple pencil at that moment, like that they would launch, you know, coincident

01:20:17 ◼   ► with it.

01:20:18 ◼   ► Um until then, this will be a third party opportunity that I think will

01:20:21 ◼   ► be very popular.

01:20:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I d I don't think the pencil will be that popular, but if

01:20:25 ◼   ► it turned out to be insanely popular, they could always do the palm slash

01:20:28 ◼   ► handspring thing and have the little pencil slot right into the device in a

01:20:31 ◼   ► hole.

01:20:32 ◼   ► That would that's so anti-Apple, they would never do that, but it would be

01:20:34 ◼   ► funny.

01:20:35 ◼   ► What was amazing about that is that it was always with you.

01:20:39 ◼   ► Like yeah, you're right.

01:20:40 ◼   ► They would they would never in a million years do it would just be

01:20:43 ◼   ► such a waste of space.

01:20:43 ◼   ► People don't use it enough.

01:20:44 ◼   ► It's so awkward.

01:20:45 ◼   ► It's terrible like there's a million reasons why it's a bad idea, but what

01:20:47 ◼   ► I having used those devices, it was convenient.

01:20:49 ◼   ► It was you always had the pencil and it wasn't magnetically stuck to the

01:20:52 ◼   ► side or But through a loop in the case you had to put on

01:20:54 ◼   ► it.

01:20:54 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:20:55 ◼   ► And like it's funny, like you know, all the devices now that use like

01:20:59 ◼   ► all the e ink tablets that use styluses all the time, like as their

01:21:03 ◼   ► primary or only input method, you know, they they follow modern design principles of

01:21:07 ◼   ► like the device should be super thin.

01:21:09 ◼   ► And so none of them have the pen in a slot, but they all

01:21:14 ◼   ► have to then have some kind of ridiculous contraption to keep it held onto

01:21:19 ◼   ► it somehow.

01:21:19 ◼   ► And so some of them do the magnetic thing like the iPads, which of

01:21:23 ◼   ► course it falls off constantly.

01:21:24 ◼   ► And then they have to have a case that like has a strap that

01:21:27 ◼   ► wraps around it to keep it on there.

01:21:29 ◼   ► Or some of them will have like a loop that you have to put

01:21:31 ◼   ► it like none of them have solved this problem well, but nobody wants a

01:21:36 ◼   ► device that's super thick.

01:21:37 ◼   ► And and also, like, you know, the the styluses that would go into your

01:21:40 ◼   ► palm pilot were very skinny.

01:21:42 ◼   ► Incredibly uncomfortable.

01:21:43 ◼   ► Like there's there's good reasons not to do it.

01:21:45 ◼   ► Yeah, and they I mean they were only like probably about five inches long,

01:21:48 ◼   ► but they were also like just super skinny.

01:21:50 ◼   ► Part of that was to fit in the body, whereas now everybody wants their

01:21:54 ◼   ► styluses to be the same width as a pen or a pencil and this

01:21:58 ◼   ► and you know, nice and long so it if the weight feels right and

01:22:00 ◼   ► everything.

01:22:01 ◼   ► So there's lots of reasons why this is a difficult and generally unsolved problem.

01:22:06 ◼   ► Uh but there is there is no graceful solution.

01:22:10 ◼   ► And certainly for Apple to have a pencil with a duo, there's gonna be

01:22:13 ◼   ► no graceful solution there either.

01:22:15 ◼   ► But I think it'll be high value enough that many people who like the

01:22:20 ◼   ► same kind of people who would carry around a field notes notebook today, you're

01:22:24 ◼   ► carrying a pen somewhere, you're you know, it maybe a little pocket pen or,

01:22:27 ◼   ► you know, something.

01:22:28 ◼   ► I think the is going to carry a separate pen in their pocket for

01:22:32 ◼   ► this.

01:22:33 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:22:34 ◼   ► Uh there was something spotted uh by Benjamin Mayo over at 925 Mac.

01:22:38 ◼   ► Blogger Nicholas Lelouch uh went digging in the iPhone Duo settings during his hands-on

01:22:43 ◼   ► time with the device, he found a curious new option in the display settings

01:22:46 ◼   ► called Shift Left Edge.

01:22:48 ◼   ► When enabled, this setting adds a bit of black border to the left side,

01:22:51 ◼   ► essentially adding a fake bezel on the outside screen, pushing content away from the

01:22:55 ◼   ► folding edge.

01:22:56 ◼   ► The description for this setting in the iPhone Duo software says that it quote

01:23:00 ◼   ► moves content when you are using a case that partially covers the left edge

01:23:03 ◼   ► of the outer display of your iPhone.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Hello all screen twentieth anniversary iPhone.

01:23:07 ◼   ► Everyone's getting used to safe area insets at non-zero values on their left and

01:23:11 ◼   ► right how are they gonna put cases on a phone that has a wraparound

01:23:14 ◼   ► screen?

01:23:15 ◼   ► Ding ding ding ding ding.

01:23:16 ◼   ► I hope they I mean if they don't do this, they totally should, which

01:23:19 ◼   ► is like I've always wished they did something like they get like no bezels,

01:23:22 ◼   ► uh the screen goes edge to edge.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Now the screen even wraps around a little bit.

01:23:25 ◼   ► But what if I want a case?

01:23:26 ◼   ► Now the screen is hidden under the case.

01:23:28 ◼   ► Well, good news.

01:23:29 ◼   ► There should be something in settings that you can hit that takes the picture

01:23:31 ◼   ► and just squishes it in so it's not under your case anymore.

01:23:34 ◼   ► Because look, if the screen uh begins exactly where the case ends, that's an

01:23:41 ◼   ► edge-to-edge screen.

01:23:42 ◼   ► Like I'm great with that.

01:23:43 ◼   ► So I know they did it on this one because it's like look, well,

01:23:45 ◼   ► it's it's folding and it's like kind of like at a sharp angle on

01:23:48 ◼   ► the hinge side, and it's almost impossible to put a case on it without

01:23:52 ◼   ► it blocking some pixels.

01:23:53 ◼   ► So they built it and you or everyone's gonna deal with safe area insets

01:23:56 ◼   ► on the left and right on this phone anyway.

01:23:58 ◼   ► So they put this option in there to move it and it just basically

01:24:01 ◼   ► shoves the screen in, cuts off some pixels and because that's where the case

01:24:04 ◼   ► goes.

01:24:05 ◼   ► I hope.

01:24:05 ◼   ► I hope Apple doesn't think this is just a hack we had to do

01:24:08 ◼   ► for the first generation iPhone duo.

01:24:10 ◼   ► I hope they also decide like a much smaller version of this would be

01:24:14 ◼   ► incredibly beneficial to our edge to edge all screen twentieth anniversary phone that kinda

01:24:20 ◼   ► sorta goes over the edges a little tiny bit.

01:24:22 ◼   ► It's a good thing I didn't design a brand new app that has edge

01:24:25 ◼   ► to edge table cells.

01:24:26 ◼   ► Oh crap.

01:24:29 ◼   ► Yeah, you and I are not gonna have a fun few weeks.

01:24:31 ◼   ► Once you're doing safe area insets on all four sides, the only thing about

01:24:34 ◼   ► next is safe area regions where it's not just insets and this is like

01:24:37 ◼   ► rectangles cutting into your app.

01:24:39 ◼   ► All right.

01:24:40 ◼   ► Don't give them any ideas, John.

01:24:41 ◼   ► Oh yeah, speaking of that, um speaking of uh my app that I'm working

01:24:45 ◼   ► on.

01:24:45 ◼   ► Like, um, you know how the um in Mac OS uh things avoid the

01:24:49 ◼   ► dock, right?

01:24:50 ◼   ► Like the the Windows and the whole operating system and mission control and everything

01:24:54 ◼   ► knows where the dock is so they don't put stuff behind it most of

01:24:56 ◼   ► the time.

01:24:57 ◼   ► I'm like, private API babies, can I do that?

01:24:59 ◼   ► Uh unfortunately the answer is that Mac OS supports one dock like region like

01:25:07 ◼   ► that.

01:25:08 ◼   ► And it's for the doc.

01:25:09 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, if only this API gave multiple regions you know what I

01:25:13 ◼   ► mean?

01:25:13 ◼   ► Like a bunch of rectangles, but it's essentially one safe area inset and it

01:25:16 ◼   ► is only where the official macOS stock is.

01:25:19 ◼   ► There is no way to give it multiple rectangles or regions or anything.

01:25:22 ◼   ► Like so hopefully that isn't coming for you folks over on the iOS side

01:25:25 ◼   ► anytime soon.

01:25:26 ◼   ► But yeah, once they have Saferry insets everywhere and you adjust your apps for

01:25:30 ◼   ► it, Apple is free to do this with any of their phones.

01:25:34 ◼   ► We are sponsored this episode by ZocDoc.

01:25:37 ◼   ► It is so easy to put off making doctor's appointments.

01:25:40 ◼   ► I'm an expert at procrastination in life in general.

01:25:43 ◼   ► And this is one of those things like I've gone like, you know, a

01:25:46 ◼   ► couple years sometimes without getting my annual physical or I'll wait too long at

01:25:50 ◼   ► you know if I get prescribed something I won't follow up because it's such

01:25:52 ◼   ► a pain to book up a doctor's appointment and everything.

01:25:55 ◼   ► So Zoc Doc fixes this problem.

01:25:57 ◼   ► Zoc Doc lets you search and compare high quality in-network doctors easily and across

01:26:03 ◼   ► over 200 specialties and across all the time.

01:26:06 ◼   ► All 50 states.

01:26:07 ◼   ► They have over 150,000 providers in their directory, and they have tons of reviews

01:26:12 ◼   ► from real patients and detailed profiles of each doctor so you can find and

01:26:16 ◼   ► choose the right one for you.

01:26:18 ◼   ► You can see actual appointment openings and click to instantly book a visit.

01:26:22 ◼   ► And these appointments usually are within 24 to 72 hours, so you can get

01:26:25 ◼   ► really quick appointments, even score same-day appointments.

01:26:28 ◼   ► And ZocDoc is all free to use.

01:26:31 ◼   ► Look, your health matters, and taking care of yourself shouldn't be complicated.

01:26:35 ◼   ► So if you are ready to be seen, head to ZocDoc.com slash ATP to

01:26:40 ◼   ► get started and check that appointment off your to-do list.

01:26:43 ◼   ► That's ZocDoc spelled Z O C D O C dot com slash ATP.

01:26:49 ◼   ► Zocdoc.com slash ATP.

01:26:52 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Zoc Doc for sponsoring our show.

01:26:58 ◼   ► All right, let's talk iOS 27 omissions.

01:27:01 ◼   ► Uh as noted in Steven Robles's iOS 27 review, the automatic agentic password changing

01:27:08 ◼   ► feature is not in the initial 27 release.

01:27:10 ◼   ► Uh Stephen also noted that the suggested action mini bubbles and messages also aren't

01:27:15 ◼   ► twenty seven dot oh.

01:27:16 ◼   ► Yeah, the agentic password thing, we talked about that on a past show of

01:27:19 ◼   ► like uh people who had tried it and said it had like a low

01:27:22 ◼   ► single single digit percentage success rate.

01:27:25 ◼   ► So that feature I guess was not ready for prime time.

01:27:27 ◼   ► I do wonder if it will ever come out.

01:27:29 ◼   ► Like what is going to change between now and 26.2 that's going to bring

01:27:33 ◼   ► it from a six percent success rate to something that people would actually want

01:27:36 ◼   ► to use?

01:27:36 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:27:37 ◼   ► You think it's gonna be air powered?

01:27:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:39 ◼   ► I mean, like it always seemed really uh um uh aggressive and uh optimistic

01:27:45 ◼   ► that it was going to work.

01:27:46 ◼   ► Uh because and Apple had all those papers and everything about like how they

01:27:49 ◼   ► have uh research on training models to understand user interfaces and stuff, which is

01:27:53 ◼   ► essentially what's required to like navigate a website and uh use it like a

01:27:57 ◼   ► human would to find where you can go in and change your password and

01:28:00 ◼   ► stuff.

01:28:00 ◼   ► It's a hard problem.

01:28:01 ◼   ► It's just uh ambitious is the word I was looking for.

01:28:04 ◼   ► It just always seemed like a very ambitious feature, so I'm not shocked that

01:28:06 ◼   ► it didn't 27.0.

01:28:09 ◼   ► All right.

01:28:09 ◼   ► Uh photo libraries and external drives.

01:28:12 ◼   ► Uh Mike Brogan writes, for what it's worth, I'm working with someone that has

01:28:15 ◼   ► their photos library on an external drive.

01:28:17 ◼   ► They see that message in preferences about the library not being searchable in spotlight.

01:28:21 ◼   ► I wish Apple was clearer on what this means as searching the library in

01:28:24 ◼   ► the Photos app for objects, places, people, etc.

01:28:27 ◼   ► all works fine.

01:28:27 ◼   ► I can search for quote unquote mountains, and boom, I get all sorts of

01:28:30 ◼   ► results.

01:28:31 ◼   ► And then Jason uh apparently has some other information.

01:28:35 ◼   ► Uh Jason Snell, I'm sorry.

01:28:36 ◼   ► He's got the answer.

01:28:37 ◼   ► He's got the answer for Mike, because Mike was wondering what the whole deal

01:28:39 ◼   ► is there.

01:28:40 ◼   ► Jason's got the definitive answer.

01:28:41 ◼   ► As he pointed out to me over messages, he does write a how to

01:28:44 ◼   ► use Apple Photos book every year, so he knows this stuff.

01:28:46 ◼   ► Jason writes, Spotlight and Photos search are not the same.

01:28:49 ◼   ► Searching s for stuff inside photos is not spotlight.

01:28:52 ◼   ► It certainly has been the case that searching photos is fine on an external

01:28:55 ◼   ► drive until they broke it.

01:28:56 ◼   ► My main library isn't it?

01:28:57 ◼   ► Once they broke it not until Excuse me, unless they broke it.

01:29:00 ◼   ► That's a very important difference.

01:29:01 ◼   ► Thank you for catching that.

01:29:02 ◼   ► Uh my main library has been on an external drive for ages, says Jason.

01:29:06 ◼   ► So this is good news for me, 'cause that like the whole like, oh,

01:29:08 ◼   ► your library's not searchable because X, Y, and Z, they're talking about spotlight search,

01:29:13 ◼   ► like Command F and Finder, find images, blah blah whatever, which I never use

01:29:17 ◼   ► to look through my photos.

01:29:19 ◼   ► So I'm this is good news for me that like on an external drive,

01:29:22 ◼   ► yes, you will see this message, but all it means is that your photos

01:29:25 ◼   ► won't come up in spotlight but I don't I don't even want my photos

01:29:28 ◼   ► in spotlight results.

01:29:29 ◼   ► If I ever want to find my photos, I'm gonna launch the photos app

01:29:31 ◼   ► and then I'm gonna type mountains, pictures of fences, whatever, like whatever and as

01:29:36 ◼   ► long as that works, I'm good.

01:29:37 ◼   ► So I'm happy with this.