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708: Primary, Tertiary, and Third Cousin

 

00:00:00   Back from the beach.

00:00:01   Oh yes, cause school started this week, right?

00:00:03   Yeah.

00:00:04   How's that going?

00:00:05   It's fine.

00:00:07   He says with zero enthusiasm.

00:00:10   Who okay.

00:00:12   Who besides most parents is excited for school to start?

00:00:17   Yeah, no, that's fair.

00:00:18   Yeah.

00:00:19   Teachers generally aren't uh the kids sure aren't.

00:00:23   Um But I mean and I understand as a parent, I understand like, get

00:00:28   out of the house, get back to school.

00:00:30   Like that's that's a perfectly valid thing.

00:00:32   Until I started loving summer for other reasons.

00:00:34   And now I'm like, No, the summer is over.

00:00:38   At least you don't have to go to school.

00:00:40   I I I have to drive every morning towards the school.

00:00:42   I mean it's But you don't have to attend it.

00:00:44   I feel like there's some religion here.

00:00:46   Well, we're at the stage of parenting where um a good degree of involvement

00:00:50   with keeping homework happening um is required.

00:00:53   Oh, where does that come from, Marco?

00:00:54   There's

00:00:57   a lot of the We are indeed in September, which means it is Childhood

00:01:01   Cancer Awareness Month.

00:01:03   Uh we are talking, of course about uh raising money for St.

00:01:06   Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:01:08   You can go to Saint Jude.org slash ATP, S-T-J-U-D-E.org slash ATP to donate some

00:01:14   amount of money to the wonderful, wonderful, wonderful people at St.

00:01:17   Jude uh Children's Research Hospital.

00:01:19   St.

00:01:19   Jude has made it their mission for no child to die in the dawn

00:01:23   of life.

00:01:24   They don't want any children to pass away because of cancer and other, you

00:01:28   know, really, really terrible diseases.

00:01:30   Um, did you know that an estimated 400,000 children worldwide get cancer each year

00:01:35   when St.

00:01:36   Jude opened in 19?

00:01:37   1962, childhood cancer was largely considered incurable.

00:01:41   Since then, St.

00:01:41   Jude has helped push the overall survival rate in the United States from twenty

00:01:45   percent to more than eighty percent.

00:01:48   And St.

00:01:49   Jude won't until no child dies from cancer.

00:01:51   Uh curing childhood cancer is a tremendous undertaking.

00:01:54   St.

00:01:55   Jude needs your help.

00:01:56   Uh, the generosity of donors everywhere, including our wonderful, wonderful, wonderful ATP listeners, uh,

00:02:01   it supports cutting-edge research that saves lives and ensures that families never receive a

00:02:05   bill from Saint Jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food.

00:02:08   Every child deserves a chance to live their best life, to live any life

00:02:12   and celebrate every moment.

00:02:13   When you support Saint Jude, you can help make cures possible for kids with

00:02:16   cancer together.

00:02:17   You and me, listeners we can save more lives.

00:02:20   Uh we had a person write in to ATP.

00:02:23   They did not write in anonymously, but I'm going to read their feedback anonymously

00:02:26   and I've sanitized it ever so slightly.

00:02:29   Uh this person wrote, this is an honest to God email that we, the

00:02:32   three of us got at ATP.

00:02:33   This person wrote, Last December we got the awful news that no family wants

00:02:37   to hear.

00:02:38   Our son was diagnosed with def diffuse B cell non-Hodgkins lymphoma.

00:02:43   We live well outside the Memphis area, so we went to our local pediatric

00:02:46   hospital.

00:02:47   We received amazing care, including the great news early on that the chemotherapy regimen

00:02:51   that would treat our son has been in place for the last fifteen years

00:02:54   after a very successful trial.

00:02:55   Where, Marco?

00:02:57   St.

00:02:57   Jude Children's Research.

00:02:58   That's correct.

00:02:59   Uh the anonymous person continues.

00:03:00   Although the journey was brutal, through God's grace and the proven treatment plan, our

00:03:04   son was declared cancer free in May of this year.

00:03:07   He's back in school and getting stronger every day.

00:03:10   That is an honest to goodness, real life story from a fellow listener to

00:03:15   this very program.

00:03:16   So if you want to support things like this, if you want to save

00:03:20   children's lives, please give a dollar, five dollars, ten dollars, whatever you can give

00:03:26   to Saint Jude at Saint Jude.org, S-T-J-U-D E.org slash ATP.

00:03:30   Now, Marco, we have some breaking, wonderful news from earlier today.

00:03:34   Can you tell us about this, please?

00:03:36   As I discussed last episode, uh, the Marco offset.

00:03:39   Previously was it the the suggested minimum donation for our listeners for St.

00:03:44   Jude that you would basically um take the the amount over the starting MSRP

00:03:49   of the new iPhone and maybe Apple Watch and whatever that you possibly ordered

00:03:54   or about to order or are planning to order uh during this wonderful iPhone

00:03:58   event season.

00:03:58   The difference between the base price and what you actually paid after all the

00:04:02   taxes and add ons and cases and Apple Cares and everything else, storage upgrades,

00:04:05   all that stuff, that was your suggested minimum donation to St.

00:04:08   Jude.

00:04:08   And last episode, I introduced new levels two and three to the Marco offset.

00:04:14   Level two was you also add on to that whatever you spent on AI

00:04:19   this month, because if there's one thing that we need some kind of consumer

00:04:25   absolution from, uh besides rampant consumerism and buying new phones to replace phones that

00:04:31   work, it's AI.

00:04:32   So if you contribute an equal amount that you contributed to AI this month

00:04:36   as part of your Marco offset, um you are absolved from I probably shouldn't

00:04:40   be guaranteeing I mean probably not, but that's okay.

00:04:44   Uh from from the from the guilt of using AI.

00:04:47   Um, if you want even more absolution, level three, is instead of contributing what

00:04:52   you spent on AI this month, contribute what you spent on AI this year.

00:04:57   That is level three of the Marco offset, in addition to the iPhone uh

00:05:01   offset that was already there.

00:05:02   Now, listener Brandon Beckerer uh has a site called themarkoffset.com where Brendan has basically

00:05:10   made a calculator for this in in past years.

00:05:12   Well Brandon wrote to say the Marco offset calculator is live for twenty twenty

00:05:15   six includes the new levels mentioned last week.

00:05:18   So it includes calculation for your your AI use for levels two and three.

00:05:22   So thank you to Brendan Beckerer, and please everyone uh contr consider contributing to

00:05:27   St to Saint Jude in this way, uh if you can.

00:05:29   It really makes a difference.

00:05:30   John, anything to add?

00:05:32   I do not.

00:05:32   Give to Saint Jude.

00:05:33   Uh it's easy.

00:05:34   And just make a part of your annual giving.

00:05:36   Yep.

00:05:37   Uh to any degree, any amount that you can, one last time.

00:05:40   S T G U D E dot org slash ATP.

00:05:42   All right.

00:05:43   So we are skipping follow-up as is as per the rules of the Accidental

00:05:47   Tech Podcast.

00:05:48   We are going to jump straight into day.

00:05:51   The rules of this podcast is it does not begin with the the oh

00:05:53   my god, can I get this?

00:05:54   Can I get anybody on this?

00:05:56   Last time you and Mark would argue with me that there was a the

00:05:58   in front of the name of the podcast, I swear to you there is

00:06:00   not.

00:06:01   Wait, I never argued that.

00:06:02   It was only ever Casey.

00:06:04   I think it was you.

00:06:05   It was definitely not me.

00:06:06   No, there is no the.

00:06:07   There is no.

00:06:08   There never has never been a the.

00:06:09   Cut this out.

00:06:09   This is for bootleg people only.

00:06:11   Please, no the I'm not cutting it out, there's staying in and I but

00:06:14   fine, but like can we get agreement so I'm not taking crazy pills?

00:06:17   There's no the in front of the name of our podcast.

00:06:18   I know sometimes grammatically it makes sense to put the the there and we

00:06:21   do it and blah blah blah, but please.

00:06:22   So wait, so what was I supposed to say?

00:06:23   Due to the rules of accidental tech podcasts, that makes no sense.

00:06:27   Or you can say ATP.

00:06:28   You can always say ATP.

00:06:30   God, you're killing me.

00:06:31   Next thing you're gonna tell me is that it's not the iPhone, it's just

00:06:33   iPhone.

00:06:34   Well no anyway.

00:06:35   See that's a case where we all disagree with Apple.

00:06:36   It's like the the the GIF gift

00:06:38   where we disagree with the creator.

00:06:40   Yeah, I well, what can I tell you?

00:06:42   Well Apple's the one who sa who's saying that like anyway, whatever.

00:06:45   I'm saying this is what we do with our podcast.

00:06:46   Apple can decide their rules for their phone and we can ignore those rules

00:06:49   because we didn't make the iPhone.

00:06:50   I'm not sure I'm not sure we have unity on our own rules, but

00:06:53   that's neither here nor there.

00:06:54   We should, but we totally should.

00:06:56   There's never been a the Well and I I think it's what's what's most

00:06:59   um damning for your case here, Casey, is that there's no the in the

00:07:03   acronym.

00:07:04   It's not T A T P.

00:07:05   There's no the in the show artwork, in the title in the feeds, like

00:07:09   there's it never appears anywhere.

00:07:13   I'm not saying that it it was not an uppercase T H E.

00:07:15   It was a lowercase T H E.

00:07:17   This is silly.

00:07:17   We gotta move on.

00:07:18   I wanna I wanna go to bed before tomorrow.

00:07:20   All right, so uh we have an Apple event event today and it started

00:07:23   with this very cinematic opening scene with everyone telling, like, oh, this is how

00:07:29   you should start something off in a dramatic way.

00:07:31   And it wasn't particularly relevant.

00:07:33   Like it was fine and interesting, I suppose, but I don't know it didn't

00:07:37   I I don't really get why we did that, but it wasn't bad.

00:07:41   Well my first thought uh was that Apple may have too much money because

00:07:45   like these were scenes from like like full budget scenes from uh you know

00:07:49   movies of the genres that they were made.

00:07:51   Granted they were like three second scenes, but it was different setups, different locations,

00:07:55   different actors, different just like how much money do you have to do all

00:07:58   these different setups for like a three minute as you note, pointless, not particularly

00:08:03   related to the technology intro uh intro.

00:08:05   Anyway, it was blessedly short, it was extremely well done.

00:08:08   Man, they have a lot of money.

00:08:09   I mean, but they didn't on writers.

00:08:12   Oh yeah, I mean yeah, it's not gonna like I I think maybe they're

00:08:14   flexing like, hey, you know, we we do we have a uh a premium

00:08:17   television service right now and we uh we fund a lot of really good

00:08:21   television programs so they have access to to all that talent or whatever, but

00:08:24   who knows maybe there's no overlap, but just a lot of money.

00:08:27   And I have to say, and they make this point in the thing that,

00:08:29   you know, oh this was shot on iPhone, blah, blah, blah.

00:08:31   I thought this presentation, I thought it looked really good.

00:08:34   I mean that's not up to the iPhone, right?

00:08:35   It's up to the, you know, the direction and the the lighting and, you

00:08:38   know, the setups and blah blah blah.

00:08:39   But I thought everything in this presentation looked even better than usual, which is

00:08:44   a high bar.

00:08:45   Yeah.

00:08:46   Uh then we got uh Tim at the very end saying, No, no, no,

00:08:50   no or well, like, oh, here's how you start the thing, you're in California,

00:08:53   you follow a car into a tunnel, which is the tunnel leading into Apple

00:08:56   Park, blah blah blah, and then eventually you see a super extreme close-up and

00:08:59   says, No, no, no, it's not me.

00:09:01   That's your guy that's your opener, and then we get uh John Turnus.

00:09:05   I thought if you were going to do a passing of the torch, which

00:09:08   I'm not sure that it was necessary, but if you're going to do it,

00:09:11   I personally felt like this was a very tasteful, very quick, easy way to

00:09:15   do it.

00:09:16   I didn't think they were gonna do it at all.

00:09:17   I thought it would just be like look, we all it's not like it's

00:09:19   a surprise.

00:09:19   This has been a long time coming.

00:09:21   It happened, blah, blah blah.

00:09:22   But they I was surprised it was in there at all.

00:09:24   When I heard his voice, I was surprised.

00:09:26   And I will say that whoever directed this actually got the first the closest

00:09:31   thing to uh a genuine performance uh of emotion from Tim Cook with his

00:09:37   one little line of like no no no not me that's your guy I

00:09:40   don't think he's ever said anything with as much emotion as he said his

00:09:43   one line here.

00:09:44   And I'm gonna mostly chuckle it up to the fact that the director did

00:09:48   enough takes to say, No, we're taking that one, Tim.

00:09:50   You're you're gonna do it one more time and you're gonna have actual feeling.

00:09:55   Uh and he did it uh either that or he's like, you know, he's

00:09:58   got senioritis, right?

00:09:59   And so he's like, I'm outta here.

00:10:00   I finally I can let a tiny amount of emotion show in an Apple

00:10:03   video, and he did for three seconds.

00:10:06   Yeah I I I I thought it was a it was a a very

00:10:09   nice very Apple way to do the handoff.

00:10:13   It's like a a little bit uh overproduced, a little bit stilted, a little

00:10:18   bit content free, but makes you feel slightly good.

00:10:21   It it was the perfect like, you know, Tim Cook and and, you know,

00:10:24   going into you know, Turnus being there and having his first address to the

00:10:29   audience as CEO.

00:10:31   And that was also like it was perfect transitional Tim Cook era style of

00:10:37   like You know, Turnus walked he you see Turnus walking around Apple Park for

00:10:40   a few minutes saying things saying what?

00:10:44   I have no idea.

00:10:46   Like all of the words he said just sounded vaguely good and meant nothing,

00:10:50   but it was exactly what it needed to be.

00:10:52   It was here is here's the new guy.

00:10:54   It was handed on you know, Tim pu passed the baton to John Turnus

00:10:59   and here's the new guy and he's doing don't worry everybody exactly what everyone

00:11:04   expects.

00:11:05   He he's also like I thought Turnus was like a little bit stilted.

00:11:09   You know, he's he's new to this.

00:11:10   You can tell that he doesn't have as much practice doing this as Tim

00:11:14   did, and he will, I'm sure, you know, get a little smoother with time,

00:11:18   but it's like a little bit stilted, a little bit tight and forced and

00:11:23   a lot content-free in that opening address.

00:11:26   But this is Turnus doing Tim Cook's thing.

00:11:31   And eventually, I hope Turnus will start doing his own thing.

00:11:34   That's most likely what's going to happen.

00:11:35   But he has to kind of like, you know, develop into that in in

00:11:38   the public persona and and in, you know, his his own role here.

00:11:42   Um, you know, in the same way that like like the very first season

00:11:45   of The Office US tried to be like the Office UK and it was

00:11:51   weird and kind of bad.

00:11:53   Actually it was very bad at first.

00:11:54   Um you know like you know, Parkson Rec first tried to be the office

00:11:58   and it was also weird and bad until it kind of found its own

00:12:01   style.

00:12:01   Yeah.

00:12:02   I think this is like this is Turnus taking on the Tim Cook style

00:12:06   and it's weird and it's kind of maybe it's not as bad as the

00:12:10   Office US season one, but I'm looking forward to seeing what Turnus's style grows

00:12:15   into as he as he kind of gets his own style here.

00:12:19   Um, because this wasn't it.

00:12:20   What we saw here was just Turnus in a Tim Cook outfit, basically.

00:12:24   But like I I wanna see like how this goes over time.

00:12:28   This is my note on this section.

00:12:29   I just uh said that I thought the uh the director or whoever got

00:12:32   a uh a slight uh an almost a genuine performance out of Tim Cook

00:12:35   where he expressed a tiny bit of emotion for a fraction of a second.

00:12:38   But what he also did was performed uh comfort, enthusiasm, and gusto that uh

00:12:47   uh overshadowed Turnus because he does this little intro and he he gives this

00:12:51   little bit of emotion.

00:12:52   You're like, Tim, I didn't know you could raise your voice in that way

00:12:55   and express emotion with your voice on an Apple video.

00:12:57   I couldn't believe it.

00:12:58   And he was right in your face and he's loud and he's just so

00:13:02   expressive.

00:13:02   And then they cut to Turkey.

00:13:04   Well, it's all relative.

00:13:05   I mean, so expressive for Tim Cook.

00:13:07   Right, but still.

00:13:08   And then they cut to Turnus, who first of all, I think his audio

00:13:11   equalization was messed up.

00:13:12   He's like me in that his voice just recorded straight sounds terrible, so it

00:13:15   needs a lot of help to not sound awful.

00:13:17   He just sounded like muted and like he was talking from inside of a

00:13:21   paper bag and he was just like like Tim just overpowered him of basically

00:13:25   saying, See ya, I'm outta here.

00:13:27   Remember me, that dynamic figure often seen crushing ice and scaling walls like no,

00:13:31   but like right now it seems like you're that guy and then Turnus is

00:13:35   just this little lilting flower.

00:13:36   Now I do think in the rest of the keynote when he got to

00:13:38   do more normal Turnus things that he felt much more comfortable.

00:13:41   So I think he did a fine job.

00:13:42   But this this is my note on this thing.

00:13:45   It makes it seem like Tim Cook was just an amazing figure, which we

00:13:48   know he wasn't he was very, you know, very very state and boring and

00:13:51   just did not express anything.

00:13:53   And then it makes Turners seem a little bit uh limp.

00:13:55   But you know, this I I I like as of the for the rest

00:13:58   of the video, I think he just he was just doing his normal Turnus

00:14:01   stuff that he always does in these videos and he was pretty good at

00:14:03   it.

00:14:04   I thought on the whole Turnus did a good job.

00:14:06   Yes, he stilted.

00:14:07   Yes, he's got a Tim Cook suit on.

00:14:09   But in the grand scheme of things, I thought he did pretty darn well.

00:14:11   Uh I he also spent a little time in this opening montage, if you

00:14:15   will, maybe not montage, but this opening segment, uh talking about kind of his

00:14:20   re-establishing maybe his, maybe Apple's values, kind of the corporate values, the hardware values,

00:14:25   software values.

00:14:25   I don't know that it was necessary, but I don't necessarily begrudge it.

00:14:30   I think it was reasonably quick.

00:14:31   It was reasonable to r kind of set the tone for here's how my

00:14:35   uh tenure is going to be at Apple.

00:14:37   I thought it was pretty good.

00:14:39   Um then they start talking over he starts talking about the intelligent personal hub,

00:14:44   which is what's going to be at the center of everything they do.

00:14:47   Uh I don't know, John, what do you think that intelligent personal hub might

00:14:50   be?

00:14:50   I mean so th there was two parts to this.

00:14:51   One was like, uh, you know, we don't have your stuff and sell it

00:14:55   or whatever, which is fine, but they do show us a lot more ads

00:14:58   than usual.

00:14:58   But anyway, they did that, which is which is fine, like basically saying we

00:15:01   don't have the same business model as other companies.

00:15:03   And then the other part of this little section was essentially a preemptive shot

00:15:07   preemptive shot over the bow of open AI uh hardware, right?

00:15:11   It was basically saying, um, you know, intelligence, blah, blah, your info, blah, blah,

00:15:17   privacy, blah, blah.

00:15:18   And how will you access that information?

00:15:20   What you would s you need something that's always with you and that has

00:15:23   the power to do these things or whatever.

00:15:24   And it's like this whole big giant construction, it's like, and you know what?

00:15:27   Guess what?

00:15:28   The answer is the iPhone.

00:15:30   Not anything anyone else is making.

00:15:32   Like, not a pendant, not a donut not anything like the answer is the

00:15:35   iPhone like wow amazing Apple so you're telling me that the product you already

00:15:39   make is actually the ideal device for AI and I'm not saying they're wrong

00:15:42   like they're probably right right but that was the point they were making hey

00:15:46   other people are making all sorts of AI stuff, but actually uh the phone

00:15:49   is the right answer and we have the best phone.

00:15:51   And you know, it and it's totally preemptive because there's no there's actually no

00:15:54   competing product that is like a threat to the iPhone at this point, but

00:15:57   open AI sure wants there to be one.

00:15:59   So that was the segment of the thing, which is like open.

00:16:01   AI, stay away, the phone's where it's at.

00:16:03   All right.

00:16:03   So yeah.

00:16:04   So uh you know, the John Turnus took a few shots across Google's bow

00:16:07   and said things like, you know, others see your your info as data to

00:16:11   collect and to store.

00:16:12   Apple Intelligence runs on device whenever it can.

00:16:15   Personal intelligence that's actually personal.

00:16:18   iPhone brings powerful AI capabilities together with your personal context on a device that

00:16:21   you have with you all the time.

00:16:22   So we're establishing, okay, here's why the iPhone is important.

00:16:25   I'm sorry, John.

00:16:26   Here's Here's why iPhone is important.

00:16:27   No, that's what Apple does, but we all we do all the opposite.

00:16:30   Just like the GIF GIF person.

00:16:32   Remember, he tells us to say GIF, but we'd all disagree and say GIF.

00:16:34   So that's the Apple situation.

00:16:36   It's George Lucas clause.

00:16:37   Sometimes the creator is wrong.

00:16:38   Yep.

00:16:39   Uh anyway, so yeah, we start with the iPhone eighteen pro and Pro Max.

00:16:43   Uh it's got the A twenty pro.

00:16:46   The highlighted feature is a variable aperture main camera.

00:16:49   Uh it's color matched aluminum and back glass.

00:16:52   So if you think about the uh iPhone's 17 Pro, there's that inset uh

00:16:57   glass section where you would plug uh or snap on like a mag safe

00:17:01   thing and that's a slightly different color than the rest of the frame of

00:17:06   the phone and now they're color matched between the glass and the aluminum.

00:17:09   That's what they say in the thing with the color matching, but we talked

00:17:12   about this when the 17 Pro came out.

00:17:13   It's not like the 17 Pro wasn't color matched.

00:17:16   The problem was there was a texture difference.

00:17:18   So at a certain angle, on the light, it exactly matched the color of

00:17:21   the aluminum.

00:17:22   But if you tilted it just off of that angle, then it didn't more.

00:17:25   So I know what they're saying, like they're just saying it's color match now,

00:17:28   it will look the same in more lighting conditions, but I think all they

00:17:30   did was change the surface treatment so that the scattering effect is similar and

00:17:33   so it looks like the same color in more conditions.

00:17:35   I'll I'll see when I get mine to, you know, tilt it to see

00:17:38   if I can get it to change color or whatever.

00:17:39   But that's that's the upshot here.

00:17:41   I don't think the orange one wasn't color matched.

00:17:43   It was just it was only color match at like one tiny angle uh

00:17:47   of incident light and every place else looked different.

00:17:50   That may be true, but I don't think I've ever looked at either Aaron's

00:17:52   phone or mine and thought, oh, that is perfectly matched.

00:17:55   You I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't recall having seen it.05 degrees

00:17:59   where it is perfectly matched.

00:18:00   But it does.

00:18:01   I'm twirling mine around now.

00:18:02   Like there is a point.

00:18:03   It's just it's a very small point.

00:18:05   It's very narrow.

00:18:06   If you're not exactly on that angle, it doesn't I think it's just because

00:18:10   it's

00:18:11   it's it's the surface treatment.

00:18:13   In any case, that we've got four colors.

00:18:14   We've got black, silver, glacier, which actually looks really good to me.

00:18:17   It's like a very light blue, almost white, and Burgundy, which has a Virginia

00:18:22   Tech Hokie.

00:18:23   Uh, I should probably buy that one if I do end up buying an

00:18:26   18 Pro, but I don't know.

00:18:27   I think the glacier looks really good.

00:18:29   Burg Burgundy is not deep cherry, which everyone was like, oh, it's gonna be

00:18:32   deep cherry or whatever.

00:18:32   And not only is it not called deep cherry, because obviously the names are

00:18:35   difficult to leak, even though the leaks basically got the color right.

00:18:39   I think it is less deep cherry than deep cherry would have been.

00:18:43   Like it is lighter than I thought it would be in Apple's publicity shots.

00:18:47   It is not as deep and dark as a lot of the spy shots

00:18:51   were.

00:18:52   Uh it's a little bit like sort of more metallic-y, brighter and I think

00:18:56   maybe not as strong as the deep cherry ones that I saw in the

00:19:00   spy shots, but maybe also less offensive to people.

00:19:02   My wife loves the color.

00:19:03   She's this is one of her favorite colors.

00:19:04   She's not getting this phone, but she actually does like that color.

00:19:07   So there's one vote for somebody liking the color.

00:19:09   Fair enough.

00:19:10   I think these colors are a lot more muted than the orange was.

00:19:13   Like Oh, definitely.

00:19:15   Based on all the leaks and everything, I was at least expecting the glacier,

00:19:19   the the light blue color.

00:19:20   I was expecting that to be a little more saturated, but like as I'm

00:19:23   watching everyone's YouTube YouTube hands on videos and stuff from the hands on area.

00:19:26   Like I'm seeing these colors in kind of as close to a realistic uh

00:19:29   view as I as I can at this moment.

00:19:31   They all look kind of restrained.

00:19:34   Um the burgundy was a lot more restrained than I thought it would be.

00:19:36   The the blue is, you know, that as well.

00:19:39   They brought back black because everyone wished there was black on the seventeen line.

00:19:43   Um and of course silver 'cause some people like to make no choice.

00:19:48   Um but but ultimately like I I think it says a lot about the

00:19:53   success of the color of the iPhone 17 Pro with the orange.

00:19:58   That like they led the introduction of the of the new Pro iPhone.

00:20:03   They led it with the colors.

00:20:05   That was the very first thing they showed us and talked about about the

00:20:08   new iPhone Pro, which if you look like before the 17 Pro with the

00:20:12   orange one, the colors of the Pro line were like almost an apology at

00:20:18   the end of the pro sec segment that they would have.

00:20:20   Like They would talk about everything else first.

00:20:23   The chip, the camera, the screen, all this stuff.

00:20:25   And then at the very end, it's available in four colors.

00:20:27   They're all different shades of gray.

00:20:29   Good luck.

00:20:29   Um and this is like, wow, we made people care about colors with the

00:20:33   orange phone.

00:20:34   Turns out people like Prophone colors.

00:20:36   It was such a big hit.

00:20:38   We're gonna lead with that this time.

00:20:40   That I think says a lot.

00:20:41   Yeah, I agree.

00:20:42   I just wish that the colors were a little more bold.

00:20:44   Um I think that would have been nicer.

00:20:46   Well and and I think ultimately th it's gonna go in cycles.

00:20:49   If you look at how Apple did colors on the the non pro equipment

00:20:54   over the years, that that's always had, you know, much better color options.

00:20:57   Um they also kind of went in waves of vibrance, I would say.

00:21:03   Colors are fashion.

00:21:04   IPhones are fashion.

00:21:05   You know, we we're we're gonna see later when we get to the Apple

00:21:07   Watch section.

00:21:08   There's a lot of like fashion influence of the colors of the watches going

00:21:11   on right now.

00:21:12   Last year they d they made a splash with the orange one, but not

00:21:15   every year is gonna have like a big vibrant splashy color.

00:21:20   This year, it there they did, I'm sure through lots of research and lots

00:21:23   of analysis of trends around the world, they decided the colors this year are

00:21:27   going to be a little bit more restrained, but a little bit different.

00:21:29   And it's not a new orange, it's Two totally different colors.

00:21:33   Um and I th that's the pattern I would expect to see.

00:21:35   I I just I hope that the bold orange was not like a one-off

00:21:41   that we're never gonna see again.

00:21:42   I because you can already see like with this color line, they're going a

00:21:45   little bit safer.

00:21:47   Like these don't seem as risky.

00:21:49   They definitely seem like they're like stepping back into their their comfort zone, which

00:21:54   in this case is a very bad thing.

00:21:56   So I'm I'm hoping they remain uncomfortable and they somebody kicks them back out

00:22:01   of their comfort zone next year and we get, you know, some kind of

00:22:03   you know a little bit more striking color next year.

00:22:06   I think the burgundy is just as saturated as the orange.

00:22:09   Orange is just a brighter color than burgundy.

00:22:10   Burgundy is by its nature a darker color, but it is at least saturated,

00:22:13   just like the black is saturated.

00:22:15   The silver and the glacier are are the typical pale ones that we always

00:22:18   have.

00:22:18   But like, yeah, that burgundy I mean that is I that is as saturated

00:22:21   a burgundy as the orange was, it's burgundy is not as bold a color

00:22:24   as orange.

00:22:25   That's the bottom line.

00:22:26   I I wouldn't I wouldn't, but i the burgundy at least is uh is

00:22:30   a strong color.

00:22:31   And I like I like it for that.

00:22:32   Even though it's my thing, it is like a a statement.

00:22:36   It is a strong color.

00:22:37   It's not but it's just it's not as it's not as vibrant as the

00:22:40   orange, but um but it is it is at least an opinion.

00:22:43   Whereas, you know they went through when they were going through all the different

00:22:45   shades of gray in the in the non sexy way, it was all just

00:22:49   like we're gonna have as little opinion as possible.

00:22:52   Like like last year, like the iPhone Air colors where the iPhone Air came

00:22:56   in three shades of very, very close to white and black.

00:22:59   And it was like and you looked at the three shades of white, you're

00:23:01   like why are these even different colors?

00:23:03   And you know, th that was like we're afraid to make any statement whatsoever.

00:23:06   This is not like that.

00:23:07   This is this is making a statement.

00:23:09   You know, this year, the statement it's making is a little bit more, you

00:23:12   know, low-key than last year's color.

00:23:15   Yep.

00:23:16   Uh the 18 Pro and Pro Max are the same size as 17 Pro

00:23:20   and Pro Max.

00:23:21   The Pro is five grams heavier, the Pro Max sixteen grams heavier.

00:23:24   Uh they also allegedly per Mac rumors have twelve gigs of RAM, same as

00:23:29   the seventeen pro in Pro Max.

00:23:31   By the way, sixteen grams heavier on the Max is a lot.

00:23:34   Well, it's all battery.

00:23:35   Um there was one moment in the video where somebody said uh and blah

00:23:39   blah blah something something the smaller size of the eighteen pro is like did

00:23:44   they make the eighteen pro smaller?

00:23:46   No.

00:23:46   They meant compared to the the folding phone, which we'll in a little bit.

00:23:50   But like I was excited for one moment, but they're literally exactly the same

00:23:53   size.

00:23:53   Uh although they didn't give measurements on the what we all assume is to

00:23:56   be the larger uh camera plateau.

00:23:58   Apple really never gives that type of measurement.

00:24:00   So we'll see uh when we see more videos about Then they made uh

00:24:04   uh they did a little bit of talking about Apple Intelligence and they made

00:24:07   kind of an offhanded point.

00:24:08   Well maybe not offhanded, they highlighted it, but one way or another they said

00:24:11   two and a half billion Siri requests per day.

00:24:14   Uh somebody pointed out, I forget who I saw this that posted this, but

00:24:17   that would that would probably be one and a quarter billion for if it

00:24:20   actually worked the first time.

00:24:21   Dun.

00:24:22   Um and then they noted or I noted that on the little slide that

00:24:26   they put up, they said that the they support or will support Chinese traditional

00:24:31   and simplified, I believe is what it said.

00:24:33   But interestingly, Apple Intelligence is not available in China, or at least won't initially

00:24:37   anyhow.

00:24:38   Well, those languages are spoken in different.

00:24:40   No, no, I know, but it it still struck me as striking, for lack

00:24:44   of a better word.

00:24:44   Aren't they doing something where they have to use like a one of uh

00:24:47   like some China uh uh AI model instead of using the ones that they

00:24:50   have?

00:24:50   Like there's this whole big deal with how they're gonna get Apple intelligence to

00:24:54   China and it involves using entirely different tech stack as usual.

00:24:57   Yep.

00:24:58   Uh they also noted that there will be some server side AI limits, which

00:25:01   we've heard about in the past.

00:25:02   They said increased access will be be will be available in most iCloud Plus

00:25:05   planes.

00:25:06   They keep they keep talking about this.

00:25:07   They've said it a few times that every time they say it, they're hand

00:25:09   wave, hand wave.

00:25:10   All right.

00:25:12   By the way, did you see that they they extended the free satellite SOS

00:25:18   for the iPhone fourteen, fifteen, and sixteen again?

00:25:22   Hey, that's what you want, right?

00:25:23   It's

00:25:24   I believe like I I know I said back then like they're probably just

00:25:28   never gonna let that expire because why like why would they ever let this

00:25:32   emergency life saving thing on an iPhone expire?

00:25:35   Like 'cause one person dies from that and that's a disaster.

00:25:38   Like they would never in a million years do it.

00:25:39   Whereas they would love to keep that going forever for free for every iPhone

00:25:45   that supports it.

00:25:45   That way they can eventually say things like, This person's life was saved by

00:25:50   this feature.

00:25:50   Like they would much rather do that.

00:25:52   So as long as the satellite SOS stuff is not costing Apple a huge

00:25:56   amount of money, which it probably isn't uh just but by volume, uh I

00:26:01   I'm sure it's fine.

00:26:02   Uh I don't know.

00:26:02   I I as we discussed last time, I think there are ways to make

00:26:05   it so it's free for everybody to use, but then like after it saves

00:26:08   your life charge you money and I I don't put it past them to

00:26:10   figure out how to do that.

00:26:12   We are sponsored this episode by 11 Labs and their 11 agents platform.

00:26:18   Now, when I've had to call a customer phone number, you know, you go

00:26:21   through the phone tree, that's really, you know, this primitive thing, you know, press

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00:26:25   Uh you you know, you hear their artificial voices, you have to wait on

00:26:28   hold, you have to enter the same information over and over again or tell

00:26:31   the same information to agents over and over again.

00:26:34   Eleven Labs has this product called 11 Agents, and this is made to solve

00:26:38   this problem.

00:26:38   And I I actually can understand the complexity on the business side at the

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00:26:45   and it's it's just so primitive.

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00:26:53   They're a platform for AI voice and chat agents that actually listen, understand, and

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00:28:03   Thanks to eleven labs and eleven agents for sponsoring our show.

00:28:11   All right.

00:28:11   Let's talk about performance.

00:28:13   They talk about the A20 Pro.

00:28:15   I'll try to run through this quickly.

00:28:16   Uh it is a two-nanometer process, which we expected, a six-core CPU with two

00:28:22   new super cores, which they specifically quoted or said are desktop class.

00:28:27   Uh four new efficiency cores, allegedly 20% faster.

00:28:30   A seven-core GPU with 40% faster graphics performance.

00:28:34   Uh neural accelerators, which mind you are different than the neural engine.

00:28:38   Uh the neural accelerators are two times faster on floating point math.

00:28:42   It has twice the neural engine with 32 total cores and two times the

00:28:46   compute power.

00:28:47   50% increase in memory bandwidth, which I reckon would will make a big deal.

00:28:51   Custom packaging inspired by the M series, they said, with the silicon die side

00:28:55   by side with memory.

00:28:57   Uh the CPU is connected directly to the vapor chamber now for quote dramatically

00:29:01   improved thermal performance.

00:29:02   And what do we call that, Casey?

00:29:04   Uh that's a triplet, right?

00:29:05   Then you watch the meme video.

00:29:06   I try to educate you on your history, but no.

00:29:09   Oh, I'm sorry.

00:29:09   It's Christian Sidram.

00:29:11   Oh what?

00:29:12   Remember the Christian side?

00:29:13   You've already forgotten.

00:29:14   It's three episodes ago.

00:29:15   Give me that Christian side ram.

00:29:16   Uh that's what's inspired by the M series If you look at an M

00:29:19   series SOC, they have RAM next to the SOC.

00:29:22   And now the iPhone does too, which as we said in the past episode

00:29:25   when we were talking about the rumor, that means that the RAM is not

00:29:28   on top of the SOC.

00:29:29   And so you're not trying to cool down a sandwich of RAM and SOC.

00:29:33   Instead, you've got the SOC, and right next to it is the RAM, and

00:29:36   you can put the heat dissipating things right up against the RAM, and most

00:29:39   importantly, right up against the SOC.

00:29:41   Um, and like the uh M6, they doubled the neural engines, so that's just

00:29:47   you know, we're gonna have two of those when once we had one, uh

00:29:50   'cause I guess it pays dividends.

00:29:51   Um they didn't talk too much about the cores, but they both had new.

00:29:54   It's a new supercore, it's a new efficiency core.

00:29:56   So I'm guess these are the better efficiency cores and maybe the same super

00:29:59   cores from the M six, but we'll find that out when people start slicing

00:30:02   these chips open.

00:30:03   Yeah, it does seem like there's a lot of common elements here between the

00:30:07   A twenty pro and the M six, which we would expect.

00:30:09   Like that is what they usually do.

00:30:11   Um but it it seems like the phone chips keep getting closer to the

00:30:14   desktop chips.

00:30:15   Well see the thing like they used to do, the phone chips would have

00:30:17   the chorus first and the M series would have them later, so the phone

00:30:20   would come out and then like the current M series would not have the

00:30:23   same chorus.

00:30:23   But I wonder if they're in sync now.

00:30:25   Uh anyway, the schedules are all weird, so we don't.

00:30:28   But they the way Apple reversed everything, new super cores and new efficiency cores.

00:30:32   Ugh, I just can't keep track of it anymore.

00:30:34   But we'll we'll find out when people uh again slice the tops off these

00:30:37   chips and start looking at the silicon on the actual chips and then we'll

00:30:40   figure out which core is which.

00:30:42   All right.

00:30:43   They have much better thermal design like we were talking about.

00:30:46   Um the vapor chamber has three times the surface area versus the 17 Pro.

00:30:51   It has 80% recycled stainless steel.

00:30:52   It has nano-twin copper material to move heat away from the display.

00:30:56   It's a 40% game versus the 17 Pro and twice as good as the

00:31:01   16 Pro and older.

00:31:02   I can tell you that having been to a football game weekend before last,

00:31:05   I think it was.

00:31:06   Anyway, it doesn't matter.

00:31:07   Having been to a football game where I'm outside for a long time in

00:31:09   the direct sun, uh, I that is like my stress test for thermals on

00:31:13   the iPhone.

00:31:14   And where the, I think the 15, certainly the 14 was like this where

00:31:19   uh after getting in the direct sun for more than a few minutes, you

00:31:23   it the the screen got so d dim and dark that you could literally

00:31:26   barely read it, or at least I could.

00:31:28   The 17 Pro definitely dims itself, but never to the point that it's difficult

00:31:33   to read.

00:31:33   And allegedly the eighteen pro is going to be even better.

00:31:36   So if you're one of those people like me that has had real hard

00:31:40   had a real hard time uh using your phone in direct sunlight, you should

00:31:43   really consider the iPhone 18 Pro, because I think it'll be way, way better.

00:31:47   Yeah, if you look at the pictures of it, like the whole the whole

00:31:50   back of the phone, though it's just one giant vapor chamber.

00:31:52   Instead of like, oh, we put a little vapor changer near where the chips

00:31:54   are.

00:31:54   No, it's just covers the whole back of the phone.

00:31:56   And then the the whatever, the nano twin copper material.

00:31:58   Now, I don't know if past phones also had some kind of heat dissipating

00:32:02   thing behind the entire screen.

00:32:04   But if they did Apple had never touted it before.

00:32:06   And so I have lots of hope that this will help specifically with the

00:32:10   situation where like you were just talking about Casey, where you have a phone

00:32:12   out in the sunlight and sun is going through the screen and bouncing around

00:32:16   there, a little greenhouse effect and heating things up because just from the direct

00:32:19   sunlight on the screen.

00:32:20   Now the entire screen has essentially a heat dissipating thing behind the whole screen

00:32:24   and hopefully that is pulling heat out of there and into the place where

00:32:27   the vapor chamber can uh deal with it.

00:32:29   So I I have high hopes for the cooling capacity of this phone based

00:32:32   on the pictures they showed.

00:32:33   Yeah, and that's kind of thing like like Casey was just saying, like good

00:32:36   thermals in a phone can just make such a difference in everyday capabilities and

00:32:42   annoyances and limitations.

00:32:44   And this is what like part of what I was complaining about last episode

00:32:47   about the iPhone Air, is that the iPhone Air kinda went the other direction,

00:32:50   it has terrible thermals.

00:32:51   Um but the iPhone 17 Pro has great thermals thanks to the vapor chamber

00:32:56   compared to the 16 Pro.

00:32:57   And now they've done an even bigger step in that same direction.

00:33:01   The iPhone eighteen Pro now allegedly, if this is all correct, which it probably

00:33:05   is, has even better thermals than the seventeen Pro did, which was already very

00:33:09   good.

00:33:10   So this should help a lot with the with things like, you know, having

00:33:13   the thing work in the sun, um, working in cars like in the summertime,

00:33:17   uh, and you know, all the way up to things like sustained gaming performance,

00:33:21   which, you know, I'm not really that kind of gamer on my phone, but

00:33:23   a lot of people do that kind of thing.

00:33:24   And it it does matter a lot.

00:33:26   All right the iPhone 18 Pro and Pro Max have the N1, which is

00:33:30   Wi-Fi 7 and Bluetooth 6.

00:33:32   Additionally, according to Mac rumors, and this is a very uh sketchy was the

00:33:37   word that came to mind, that's dramatic, but a very unclear situation for the

00:33:41   thing.

00:33:41   I mean I think that's I think I I believe they're sourcing because they're

00:33:44   basically going off of like the bands like the the the Wi Fi or

00:33:48   not Wi Fi the cellular bands that are supported by the chips and there

00:33:50   is a difference between the eighteen pro and the eighteen pro Max and so

00:33:53   I think this is plausible.

00:33:54   So they are saying that the 18 Pro has the C2 cellular chip, but

00:33:58   the 18 Pro Max does not.

00:34:00   And we'll put a link in the show notes to that.

00:34:02   Uh with regard to the battery, uh, they're saying, in short, a whole heck

00:34:06   of a lot better.

00:34:07   And also you can get half a charge in 15 minutes via a wire.

00:34:11   And five minutes of wired charging gives you six hours of video playback, which

00:34:16   is really darn impressive.

00:34:18   Uh then we got some gaming from Kayan Drance.

00:34:21   I uh went to sleep for a little bit.

00:34:22   But then we talked about the camera.

00:34:24   Still with Kayen.

00:34:25   Uh we, as I mentioned earlier, get variable apertures.

00:34:28   So there's laser-cut blades, each of which is thinner than a human hair.

00:34:32   They made their own specialized polymer composite.

00:34:34   There's new rotor mechanism, a custom design lens, and it's automatic based on the

00:34:39   scene.

00:34:40   In in the dark, you should get up to fifty percent more light.

00:34:42   Night mode will give faster capture.

00:34:45   I've seen a couple of different uh uh people cite different f stop numbers

00:34:50   and the one that seems most consistent is f1.8, but I've seen 1.4 something

00:34:54   in other words.

00:34:54   Yeah, they showed some sample shots that are 1.4.

00:34:56   I mean the F numbers are all weird because everything about this camera is

00:34:59   tiny, the sensor is tiny, the lens is tiny, the distance between the lens

00:35:02   and the sensor is tiny.

00:35:03   Like so I don't know like all all these um measurements that have to

00:35:06   do with photography all have all sorts of weird historical reasons for why they

00:35:10   are what they are.

00:35:11   And it's hard to translate them directly to a phone situation.

00:35:14   But you just have to judge from, you know.

00:35:16   Comparing to other iPhones, which have been roughly the same size, uh, that's where

00:35:20   you can get an idea of the measurements of this.

00:35:22   But the important part is, yeah, that it has an actual mechanical aperture, which

00:35:25   means the hole that lets light in can change size from a big hole

00:35:29   to a smaller hole.

00:35:30   That's That's a thing that is useful in photography.

00:35:33   Every other iPhone up to this point has had different apertures on the different

00:35:37   cameras sometimes, but each individual circle on the back of your phone had a

00:35:40   fixed aperture, which meant the hole that let the light in to the hit

00:35:44   the sensor was always the same size on each one of those circles.

00:35:47   The circles could be different from each other, but it never changed size.

00:35:49   And real cameras have an aperture on them that can change size, and now

00:35:53   so does one of the cameras on the iPhone 18 Pro and Pro Max.

00:35:58   Yeah, now I think there's this is gonna probably be a fairly small deal,

00:36:02   not as not as big of a deal as you think, um, because of

00:36:05   its variability, but so the the four apertures that it supports are f one

00:36:10   point four eight, one 1.8, 2.8, 4.0.

00:36:14   The outgoing iPhone 17 Pro camera has a fixed aperture of 1.78.

00:36:19   So this one, 1.48, is its widest open, which means if the sensor has

00:36:24   remained the same size, which it probably has that means the 18 Pro camera

00:36:29   can let in more light when it's

00:36:31   most of the time that's gonna be what it's

00:36:36   most people shooting most of the time are generally probably going to be shooting

00:36:39   with the lens wide open unless you're trying to achieve certain effects, um which

00:36:43   most people aren't, which is why I'm kind of surprised they even put this

00:36:45   in here at all.

00:36:46   But anyway.

00:36:47   Well I the I the point they made with the narrow aperture is true

00:36:49   because that annoys me with my current phone camera.

00:36:51   If you have a bunch of people who are varying distances from the camera,

00:36:55   but the close one is close to you, it's hard to get them all

00:36:58   in focus with a fixed aperture.

00:37:00   And so being able to narrow it on a sunny day, that's the picture

00:37:02   they show, like people on a staircase, and it's look, the faraway person's face

00:37:05   is also kind of in focus, and so is the close up person because

00:37:08   they narrowed it to F4 or whatever.

00:37:09   That's so that is true that but but I think what what I think

00:37:13   might be a little bit misleading about this, um, if for people who are

00:37:15   thinking about it that way, is that on a very, very small sensor like

00:37:19   this F one point four eight does not mean the same thing as F

00:37:24   one point four on your SLR lens.

00:37:27   Like it does not mean the same thing at all.

00:37:28   It's it's much more I I don't I don't know the math right off

00:37:31   the top my head.

00:37:31   Like I I don't know what the equivalent is, but they're all wildly different

00:37:34   than you think.

00:37:34   But still one point is one point eight is bigger than four.

00:37:37   They're just not the same as that would be on a real camera.

00:37:39   Right.

00:37:40   Um the other thing to to keep in mind here is that again, like

00:37:43   because of the light gathering abilities of these sensors and how tiny they are,

00:37:48   most of the time, again, most of the time the the phone is gonna

00:37:51   run it at the widest open aperture anyway.

00:37:53   Um so if you want that effect of having a lot more depth of

00:37:57   field than you even um normally would have, you're gonna have to have a

00:38:01   lot of light or have it be doing a lot of noise reduction and

00:38:04   blurring up the picture afterwards.

00:38:05   So that it's always a trade off.

00:38:06   Finally I would I would point out that the the aperture blades that they

00:38:10   showed off are

00:38:12   few in number and straight compared to any SLR lens that's worth it.

00:38:17   Yeah, you're not getting good boca bubbles.

00:38:19   Right.

00:38:19   So when the iris of a good SLR lens contracts, it tries to make

00:38:24   the hole in the middle as close to a circle as it can.

00:38:27   Now you see how it works in the video, how it has these blades

00:38:30   that kind of slide in.

00:38:32   So when you know real cameras, like when they design these blades, they usually

00:38:35   have at least eight of them.

00:38:36   This you know, there's only six in this, and they make the blades curved

00:38:40   so that as they squish in it is closer to a circle shape.

00:38:44   And the the nicer the lens is, usually the more blades there are and

00:38:48   maybe maybe the more curved they are.

00:38:49   I don't know at that part, but they at least add blades.

00:38:51   Um and so what you're trying to do is approximate a circle because wh

00:38:55   whatever shape the iris is that results from them closing in, any blob you

00:39:01   have in the background of of the blurry area, any blob like a point

00:39:05   light source especially will take on that shape.

00:39:08   Oh I don't think I knew that.

00:39:10   So you want it to be a circle or you want it to be

00:39:12   close to a circle and if you if you look at like you know

00:39:15   the the comparisons on like lens of like cheaper lenses with fewer blades versus

00:39:19   the more expensive lenses like they'll show you the difference.

00:39:21   It it's pretty apparent.

00:39:22   So to have only six blades and have them be straight, you're not gonna

00:39:27   get the look that you want without some processing.

00:39:31   I mean the blades are tiny though.

00:39:32   That's why Yeah.

00:39:34   Everything about this is so tiny, I don't really blame them.

00:39:36   No, uh agreed.

00:39:37   But that this is all kind of why I think like if what you

00:39:41   want is an SLR look without computational tricks, I don't think this is gonna

00:39:46   bring you as close to that as you might think.

00:39:48   Yeah, I think it's just giving a little bit more flexibility for for the

00:39:52   apertures that are all effectively very tiny holes in like again in the in

00:39:56   the grand scheme of things, how big physics.

00:39:58   Physically speaking, in millimeters is this hole leading to the sensor and how big

00:40:01   is the sensor?

00:40:02   Everything is so tiny.

00:40:03   Having a little bit of flexibility here is good.

00:40:05   I'm I'm looking forward to it, especially, you know, given the manual controls that

00:40:08   we're gonna get to in a second.

00:40:09   If I can actually pick it and have some say over it, I mean

00:40:11   maybe it'll just be like the slider in liquid glass where it's just like,

00:40:14   look, there's only two settings all the way to the left and all the

00:40:16   way to the right.

00:40:16   Why bother in the middle but we'll see what the auto setting does for

00:40:19   me.

00:40:19   Yeah, exactly.

00:40:20   And and I think overall, like this sounds like a a very good camera

00:40:24   upgrade broadly for lots of reasons um mostly in the software, honestly.

00:40:29   The hardware doesn't seem like it's that different.

00:40:31   Um but the larger widest aperture, going from F one point seven eight to

00:40:37   f one point four eight, that will help everything.

00:40:40   That will help low light performance.

00:40:41   Like that's oh that is always a good welcome change.

00:40:45   That's what they were showing off with that video of like, look, it's like

00:40:47   uh lighting a match in a totally dark scene and the match is illuminating

00:40:51   the actress's face.

00:40:51   It's oh shot on iPhone.

00:40:53   Yeah, there you go.

00:40:54   Alrighty.

00:40:55   So we got some discussions about the software, and this is where we start

00:40:58   talking about pro controls.

00:41:00   First of all, there's cinematic effects from regular video after captured, 60 frames per

00:41:05   second.

00:41:05   That's time-lapse in 4K with Adolby Vision.

00:41:08   Uh the audio mix where you select like um not uh not scenes is

00:41:12   the word I'm looking for, but like, oh, I want to focus on what's

00:41:14   in the frame.

00:41:15   I want to focus on the environment, whatever the case may be.

00:41:17   Well you the that m feature is uh now has music support, which is

00:41:21   cool.

00:41:22   So they showed like a couple of jazz musicians playing on the street.

00:41:25   Oh I will say also for the video, like again, this is all shot

00:41:27   on iPhone, blah blah blah.

00:41:29   Uh they really went with HDR in this whole presentation.

00:41:33   I know lots of past presentations have been HDR.

00:41:35   I know because I've struggled to download the stupid HDR version from App HLS

00:41:39   servers because of some kind of bad Akamai uh node near me that refuses

00:41:45   to let me download them.

00:41:46   But anyway, I know they've done HDR a lot and and for I think

00:41:49   for a couple years now.

00:41:51   But having watched this on iPro display XDR, I thought their use of HDR

00:41:56   in these segments was really good.

00:41:58   Like it wasn't like, look, the sun is in your eyes.

00:42:01   Ah everything was just a little bit brighter, a little bit sparklier, a little

00:42:06   bit richer, it looked really good.

00:42:08   And if that was if that's the shot on the iPhone stuff, again a

00:42:10   lot of it has to do with, you know, obviously the people who are

00:42:12   directing the scenes and deciding where to stage them and how to light them

00:42:15   and stuff like that.

00:42:16   But I think their their taste in how to deploy HDR in a video

00:42:20   that is essentially people standing in front of things talking.

00:42:22   I think they did a really good job of that this time.

00:42:25   I'm not sure how much of that to credit the phone for, but the

00:42:28   phone was obviously part of the mix.

00:42:29   And if my if the videos that I take of my family and my

00:42:32   dog and my outdoors and stuff uh could look half as good as their

00:42:36   setups here, I'll be happy.

00:42:37   All right.

00:42:38   So we got the pro controls and camera app.

00:42:40   Uh sorry, third party camera folks.

00:42:43   This is yeah.

00:42:44   It's amazing that they've lasted this long, basically having such a simple camera app.

00:42:48   I mean I know there's lots of little gadgets and buttons or whatever, but

00:42:51   like there's such a huge uh market for third-party camera apps that, like, hey,

00:42:55   you know, there are software controls for all the settings that you would want

00:42:58   on a camera, and we can just expose them to you in an app.

00:43:01   And there's apps that do that.

00:43:02   Uh, you know, obviously the the ones that stand head and shoulders by very

00:43:05   else are pretty popular and have their own technology to go with it.

00:43:08   But finally Apple said, All right, we can do that too.

00:43:11   Like we can we can just put we can just put the white balance

00:43:14   control right in the the the camera interface.

00:43:16   Every other app in the world does it.

00:43:18   Uh now we can do it and we can let you adjust shutter speed

00:43:20   and do like it's like yeah, and I feel bad for those camera apps

00:43:23   like, oh man, we had this market sewn up because Apple just refused to

00:43:26   do it with the built in app.

00:43:27   So basically our app if if our app's the one they find first, well

00:43:31   we have these controls and it's great.

00:43:33   And now the bar has been raised substantially.

00:43:35   Now it's not enough to just say, Hey, I have a third party camera

00:43:38   app that lets you have some more controls because the built in one has

00:43:41   a pretty good interface to a lot of the basic controls that weren't there

00:43:44   before.

00:43:45   Yeah, and I believe they said it was customizable, right?

00:43:47   Did I did I hear that right?

00:43:49   Yeah.

00:43:49   Oh probably in the same way the current one is, where you can kind

00:43:52   of decide what you want to see and how many controls you want to

00:43:54   see and which thing.

00:43:55   But we'll see how it uh it ends up.

00:43:56   Like it's obviously not going to really compete with the high end third party

00:44:00   camera apps that have way more features than this, but it is they're finally

00:44:04   taking a step in that direction, saying it's there's we're not going to hold

00:44:07   back and just give the simplest possible thing.

00:44:09   And arguably they started down that direction when they introduced the camera control and

00:44:12   all that stuff and setting aside how that physical control worked, they have been

00:44:15   adding more stuff to the camera app and now they're continuing in that direction.

00:44:19   So we've got these pro controls.

00:44:20   You can do white balance, they'll show a histogram, you can do the aforementioned

00:44:24   manual aperture, you can do shutter speed, and all of this is also supported

00:44:28   in video.

00:44:29   Uh one of the cooler things that they did talk about that I noticed

00:44:32   or that well that I thought was cool, not I'm not trying to imply

00:44:35   I'm the only person that noticed this.

00:44:36   Um I thought it was extremely cool that they made a specific mention that

00:44:40   for video, and I'm not sure how you enable this, but for video, you

00:44:43   can do focus tracking, which it which means like l they they showed the

00:44:47   example of a kid's soccer game and the kid is running toward the camera.

00:44:50   And generally speaking, in the past, it's been kind of hard to get the

00:44:52   phone to stay focused on the kid is there or anything really, as it's

00:44:56   moving closer or further away from the camera.

00:44:58   Um but they said not only will they do focus tracking, so keeping the

00:45:02   focus on this child as they're running closer and further away from the phone,

00:45:06   but also if they exit and then re-enter the frame, That is super cool

00:45:12   and I'm really excited to try that out.

00:45:14   Was this only video or was it also a photo?

00:45:16   Because that's another feature that that like, you know, my my so my real

00:45:20   Sony cameras, uh one of their big selling points is how well they can

00:45:24   latch onto a thing you're trying to photograph and keep the focus on it

00:45:27   and same deal.

00:45:28   Like keeping the focus on the person, even if they turn their head around,

00:45:31   if they turn their head back, it grabs their eye again.

00:45:33   If they're running across the frame, it keeps track of them.

00:45:35   Like same deal.

00:45:36   And it's always amazed me that Apple has not jumped on that faster because

00:45:40   the the SoCs in the in the iPhone are massively more powerful than the

00:45:45   ones that are in these Sony cameras, and yet the Sony cameras are have

00:45:48   a reputation for grabbing focus and not letting go and doing really well in

00:45:51   these situations.

00:45:52   So it's Apple taking some of that If it's for video, it'll be kinda

00:45:55   disappointing.

00:45:56   I was kinda wish they would just bring all my Sony camera controls to

00:45:59   the iPhone plain still image thing.

00:46:01   Again, because the phone has just so much power.

00:46:03   Like I should have no problem just trouncing the Sony in this area, but

00:46:07   so far they haven't been very excited to do so.

00:46:09   And part of it is like, okay, if you're uh taking pictures or video

00:46:14   of your kid playing soccer from reasonable distances, because of what we just said

00:46:18   before about yeah, F one point four blah blah blah, but practically speaking it's

00:46:21   not the same as F one point four on a full frame camera because

00:46:23   everything is tiny.

00:46:24   What that means is all your apertures are tiny.

00:46:27   So at the distance you're videoing your kid, everything in that field is in

00:46:31   focus.

00:46:32   Like it's it's a tiny hole.

00:46:33   Right.

00:46:34   I mean, maybe it's like it's just I I don't think there's like this

00:46:37   this shallow depth of field of like, oh no, I was at f1.4 and

00:46:41   only my kid's nose is in focus.

00:46:43   And if it and if it misses focus on him, then he's just a

00:46:45   blur in the background.

00:46:47   That's not a problem with phone video from normal viewing distances.

00:46:50   So maybe that's why they waited so long to get these fancy focus controls

00:46:54   because it's like, look, just point it in the direction of the kids and

00:46:57   hit record and I'll be fine.

00:46:59   Also, um unless I miss something, it also appears as though All of the

00:47:04   other cameras on the phone are unchanged from the seventeen pro.

00:47:06   Uh it seems like the the front camera, like the you know, the new

00:47:09   square sensored front camera that we got last year, that seems exactly the same.

00:47:13   The Forex camera seems exactly the same.

00:47:15   Like every the the ultra wide, every it seems like Everything else is unchanged.

00:47:20   Um and most likely the sensor on the forty-eight megapixel one or on the

00:47:23   one X forty megap the sensor also seems like it was unchanged because they

00:47:27   didn't mention anything about it.

00:47:28   Um so it seems like the variable aperture uh is the the only change

00:47:34   uh for the camera system this year.

00:47:35   And then these other software controls, which again are useful.

00:47:38   Um, but this is this is a a medium camera upgrade year and it's

00:47:43   much more on the software side than the hardware side.

00:47:45   Yeah.

00:47:45   The only even rumor there was about cameras other than the variable aperture one

00:47:49   being better was that maybe the telephoto would go to ten X, but it

00:47:52   doesn't, so that didn't happen.

00:47:54   Yeah, there was there was this like last minute rumor drop, almost all of

00:47:57   which was wrong.

00:48:00   Uh yeah yeah yeah.

00:48:01   All right.

00:48:02   So there are new uh texture and grain controls in the photo styles thing.

00:48:07   That's that like matrix where you can drag around the little cursory thing and

00:48:10   try to lock in the exact photo style you want.

00:48:12   So now you can do it with with texture in green control.

00:48:15   Uh they did make a bit of a stink about authenticity and they said

00:48:19   they're supporting the synth ID standard, uh which John has helpfully linked for me

00:48:24   in the show notes.

00:48:25   Uh I think that's the right thing.

00:48:26   I know that you had trouble hearing them and I I didn't actually look

00:48:28   at the subtitles, but I'm this is what they were saying.

00:48:30   It is.

00:48:31   So this is something that Google's come up with that I think a a

00:48:34   fair number of people are starting to embrace.

00:48:36   Uh they're talking they're they spoke about Apple reference image where the camera securely

00:48:40   signs the photo data data, excuse me, at pixel level at the time of

00:48:45   capture.

00:48:45   And then private cloud compute creates a reference photo that lives peer to the

00:48:49   edited photo so you can visually confirm what's actually in the shot.

00:48:52   So I guess what happens is it will always uh uh as far as

00:48:56   I can tell anyway, the the original photo will always be there and will

00:48:59   ride along with whatever edits you make to the photo.

00:49:02   I'm unclear about the mechanics of the phone.

00:49:03   I mean that's what happens now.

00:49:04   Like that's that's has always been Apple's photo system is your original remains unmodified

00:49:08   and then your your your all your uh edits are like effects on top

00:49:11   of it.

00:49:11   But what they're saying is not only are we going to continue to do

00:49:14   that, but we're going to sort of sign the original so it can you

00:49:17   can prove that this was captured by Apple's camera and it hasn't this this

00:49:21   original capture hasn't been altered.

00:49:22   Whereas with their other system you can just replace that original behind the scenes

00:49:25   with whatever you want and say, Look, this is what my iPhone took a

00:49:28   picture of.

00:49:28   It's like, Well, was it signed by all the secret key?

00:49:31   I don't know why they're to private cloud compute, but presumably there's some computationally

00:49:34   expensive thing that they don't do on your phone that they'll do at their

00:49:37   leisure on private cloud compute.

00:49:39   But presumably there's some kind of hardware signing thing involving the secure enclave or

00:49:42   whatever and the image processing and the sensor and blah blah blah that makes

00:49:46   it so that you can't fake one of these things.

00:49:48   If you have an image that is signed in this way, you can be

00:49:52   sure that it was uh these are the actual captured pixels from one of

00:49:56   these Apple camera devices.

00:49:58   That's the idea anyway.

00:49:59   Yeah I'm I'm very curio curious to learn over time like How how does

00:50:04   this work?

00:50:05   Why does private cloud compute get involved?

00:50:07   Is there some kind of like registry of the keys or something?

00:50:11   Like what happens if one of the keys gets compromised?

00:50:14   Like like if if a phone's key gets compromised?

00:50:17   I I think it's just because it's computationally expensive.

00:50:19   I don't I think that's why they're going to that's the why they always

00:50:21   go to private cloud compute.

00:50:22   It's not like it's it's because they d don't want to do it on

00:50:26   your phone because it's too much.

00:50:27   Right, but like so i if what they have set up here is basically

00:50:31   a system that um creates a pretty strong incentive for people to be able

00:50:35   to prove something that wasn't really captured by a sensor.

00:50:38   They you know, what happens if one phone's key gets compromised somehow or there's

00:50:43   some hack developed such that people can s you know make it make photos

00:50:49   that aren't real get signed as if they were real.

00:50:52   Um I don't know.

00:50:53   This this could be very interesting in the age of AI and fake everything.

00:50:59   If it all works.

00:51:00   But that's a big if.

00:51:02   I mean, but that's that's the what we do with un all encryption.

00:51:04   Like, yeah, if someone gets some secret key or whatever, you can fix stuff,

00:51:07   but like we have to make an effort in that direction, which is we'll

00:51:09   use the best technology we have, which I mean Apple's pretty good at this

00:51:13   stuff so far and like so far none of their hardware keys have been

00:51:15   leaked in such a compromise everything.

00:51:17   But yeah, that's possible, but it's better than not doing it at all.

00:51:20   Like the alternative is okay, well don't do it at all.

00:51:22   And there's nothing, you know, trying to prove that this thing, you know.

00:51:25   So I I know what you're saying, it's like, oh, you have the system

00:51:27   and people start believing in it, then you can fake things more easily because

00:51:30   people believe in it.

00:51:31   But I think if it's cracked, we'll all know that it's quickly.

00:51:36   Alrighty.

00:51:37   So we got uh told that there's an upgraded dynamic island.

00:51:40   It's smaller.

00:51:41   They did not make much of a big deal of this, which I was

00:51:43   a little surprised about, but now you can have up to three live activities.

00:51:46   And they specifically cited our friends over at Flighty, which I thought was neat.

00:51:50   Then they did a kind of overview of the new features of iOS 27,

00:51:53   which they spoke about back in June.

00:51:56   Uh there's new cases.

00:51:57   There's an updated clear case.

00:51:58   There's new colors for Tech Woven and for silicone.

00:52:01   Uh there's a new wrist strap for iPhone cases and for AirPods Pro.

00:52:05   And the pricing.

00:52:06   So it starts at $1200 for the 256 gig model, which is up a

00:52:10   hundred.

00:52:10   $100 over the 17 Pro.

00:52:12   Also, the 16, 17, 17E and Air are all now $100 more expensive.

00:52:18   Same phones.

00:52:18   They didn't.

00:52:20   Yep.

00:52:21   Then the Max starts at $1,300.

00:52:23   Both of these phones you can get up to two terabytes of storage.

00:52:26   Uh Apple upgrade, it starts at $35 a month for 24 months.

00:52:30   You get twelve hundred dollars off if you trade a 14 or newer.

00:52:34   Uh they introduced briefly Care One Family.

00:52:37   So Apple Care One Family so you can have uh family members on the

00:52:40   same plan.

00:52:41   I think this would have solved a lot of your problems, right, John?

00:52:43   Well I have a section on that.

00:52:44   I didn't realize you'd have that up there, but I had a section on

00:52:46   it lower.

00:52:46   So here's the deal with AppleCare family.

00:52:49   So what they say on their Apple.com slash Apple Care pages They say cover

00:52:53   up to three devices with Apple Care One individual, which is the new name

00:52:56   of what was previous just called Apple Care One.

00:52:57   So now it's Apple Care One individual.

00:52:59   And then they say, or choose Apple Care One family to cover every eligible

00:53:04   device for up to six people.

00:53:05   That's not just like three, you know, the individual has three devices for one

00:53:09   person.

00:53:10   The family is uh every eligible device for six people.

00:53:13   So it seems like if if uh one person owns fifty devices, you're, you

00:53:16   know, anyway.

00:53:17   Um obviously you pay for each device you cover, but anyway.

00:53:20   Um After you sign up, easily add devices straight from your phone or Mac,

00:53:23   including most devices less than four years old and in good working condition, blah

00:53:26   blah blah.

00:53:27   Here's the problem with this plan and the reason I'm still staying away from

00:53:30   it.

00:53:30   Like I I said they should do a family plan, but the problem is

00:53:33   color cover every eligible device for up to six people.

00:53:36   Well how do they identify people?

00:53:40   Because I have a lot of accounts with a lot of different Apple IDs

00:53:44   and like for like dev testing stuff or whatever.

00:53:47   And I'm gonna run out of the six people and I'm not gonna add

00:53:50   first of all, I'm not gonna add my dev testing device to my Apple

00:53:53   family.

00:53:53   I'm even sure if you need to do that.

00:53:54   But second of all, I've already got more than six.

00:53:56   I've got four actual people plus a bunch of test dev accounts.

00:53:59   And granted, they don't have any devices that need to be covered by Apple

00:54:02   Care, but to remind everyone what happened to me last time was if you

00:54:05   have a Mac with multiple accounts, which I totally do, and you ever sign

00:54:09   into an account that is not one of the accounts that is covered under

00:54:12   Apple Care One, they just yank that device off of the thing.

00:54:15   Say, sorry, we saw a different Apple ID on that device.

00:54:17   Now it's not covered anymore.

00:54:19   Um, I have had reports from listeners who said, Hey, I've got Apple Care

00:54:22   one, I log into a whole bunch of different accounts, it never bothers me.

00:54:25   So maybe they changed this, but if they changed it, they didn't say anything

00:54:29   about it.

00:54:29   And when I looked at like the terms of service, like the PDF terms

00:54:32   of service, which is weird they have like a picker, you have to pick

00:54:34   your state that you're in.

00:54:34   Anyway, when I read the language and their Apple Care One terms of service,

00:54:37   it didn't look any different to me.

00:54:38   It looked exactly the same as it was before, where they just say like,

00:54:41   one person, one this, whatever, but the problem with me was always, uh, you

00:54:46   you sign into a different Apple ID?

00:54:47   Well now that Mac belongs to a different person because you switched accounts, and

00:54:51   that person is not part of your Apple Care One family because that's limited

00:54:55   to six and dead And dev tester twenty-two is not part of that six.

00:54:59   And so sorry.

00:55:00   So yeah, I'm staying far away from this because my last experience with it

00:55:03   was terrible.

00:55:04   Apple.

00:55:04   If someone in Apple knows that they have changed this policy and or have

00:55:08   fixed this bug, please tell me.

00:55:09   But last time I pursued this all the way to the end, Apple Apple

00:55:11   said that's just the way Apple Care One works.

00:55:13   No, we can't change it.

00:55:14   If you don't get off Apple Care One.

00:55:16   So that's what I did.

00:55:17   So uh and again, like I said, I've had multiple people say this is

00:55:20   no longer the case, but I don't trust it.

00:55:22   So I'm staying away until I get official word from Apple that I can

00:55:25   log into a different account on my Mac and they won't yank it off

00:55:27   Apple Care One.

00:55:28   Oh, I do get that confirmation.

00:55:29   I am very interested in this.

00:55:31   Oh, I've skipped something uh earlier that I wanted to briefly talk about.

00:55:34   Uh iPhone handoff.

00:55:35   This was in the iOS 27 section.

00:55:37   Uh you can share a single phone number between two phones.

00:55:40   This has been slightly rumored, slightly discovered earlier.

00:55:42   Uh it only supports T Mobile, I think anywhere right now, but they said

00:55:47   that Verizon and EE will be adding support by end of year, which could

00:55:52   be interesting and useful for me in the future.

00:55:54   We'll talk about it a little later.

00:55:56   Uh anyways, so yeah, Apple Care One Family.

00:55:59   Uh you can pre-order this Saturday and launch is September 18.

00:56:03   All right, so then they t talked about the AirPods Five.

00:56:06   Uh, I don't really have much to say about this, but the brief overview

00:56:09   is that it's got uh all the AirPods Five have active noise cancellation, uh,

00:56:14   which is also fifty percent better than it was before.

00:56:16   They claim it's the best ANC in any open-ear design.

00:56:20   Um, they talked about some other features it has that have been common for

00:56:25   a while.

00:56:25   They had a very cheesy demo of live translation, which is very funny, where

00:56:29   somebody walked up to a woman saying like oh, come to our show, it'll

00:56:32   be fun, or something like that.

00:56:33   And she says, Thank you.

00:56:35   Um, it was very weird.

00:56:36   Uh anyways, you get uh for $129, you get the this is the same

00:56:42   price as the previous generation, but that generation didn't didn't have active noise cancellation.

00:56:47   So last time it was 130 bucks for no ANC.

00:56:51   Now it's 130 bucks with ANC.

00:56:54   And then they eventually got backed around to announcing AirPods 5 with wireless charging

00:56:59   case which they wouldn't say the name of it for a strangely long time.

00:57:03   But this includes on-stand volume control, uh, better battery life, and again, a wireless

00:57:08   charging case.

00:57:09   And here it is the same price as before 150 bones.

00:57:12   Uh Uh that is again pre-ordered on Saturday.

00:57:15   Both of these pre-order on Saturday out on the eighteenth.

00:57:18   And they noted that this means active noise cancellation is now standard across the

00:57:22   entire lineup.

00:57:22   John, are you in for a pair?

00:57:24   I already ordered a pair.

00:57:25   I I must have not been pay attention to the RPS V rumors or

00:57:29   maybe the uh on stem volume didn't leak, but that is the killer feature

00:57:32   for me.

00:57:32   Because remember I don't use the pros, so you've been enjoying the little on

00:57:35   stem volume swipey thing, and I haven't had it.

00:57:38   And now I do.

00:57:39   And so like I don't care about the A and C 'cause in general

00:57:41   I don't use noise cancellation on these.

00:57:43   And honestly, the the noise cancellation on the AirPod four, like they're open ear,

00:57:47   like they don't go in your ear hole.

00:57:48   So it's never gonna be great.

00:57:49   They say that it's better.

00:57:50   I'll try it.

00:57:51   I'll see how much better it is, but it does really hurt your battery.

00:57:53   But anyway, that's what I love about these AirPods 5 with wireless charging case,

00:57:58   is that they've got the on sim volume control and they supposedly have better

00:58:02   battery.

00:58:03   And those are all things I want.

00:58:04   I like I said I use the AirPods all all all the time.

00:58:07   Every there's not a day goes by when I don't use these things.

00:58:10   Yep.

00:58:10   And so I'm replacing them with these five.

00:58:12   Uh it's gonna be a a big upgrade for me.

00:58:14   And I as far as I can tell, they're the same shape, which I

00:58:17   like because the current shape fits me.

00:58:19   So I was very happy with this.

00:58:20   It was the first thing that I ordered.

00:58:22   It it's orderable today, not on Saturday, then I misspoke a minute ago.

00:58:25   You can do a pre order or whatever I don't I don't know.

00:58:26   Like you I I I I did a I did a double tap on

00:58:30   the side button with Apple Pay, so something happened.

00:58:32   Oh, my bad.

00:58:32   Then I guess you can order today and they'll am I right to say

00:58:35   they're out on the eighteenth or am I making that up?

00:58:36   Uh I didn't look what the ship date was, but probably Now John, did

00:58:40   you order the AirPods five or did you order what was first called this

00:58:44   version?

00:58:45   And then eventually was renamed AirPods Five with Wireless Charging Case.

00:58:50   Which remember like last year we they they did the same thing with like

00:58:54   the AirPods Four or whenever that maybe two years ago, whatever it was, AirPods

00:58:57   Four and then they had like the AirPods Four with active noise cancellation.

00:59:00   It's like this is two different products, and they just refuse to really name

00:59:05   the second one.

00:59:06   Just call it like AirPods Five Plus.

00:59:10   Yeah.

00:59:10   Or like it's uh it's a different product between the base AirPods and the

00:59:15   pros.

00:59:16   Just give it a real name.

00:59:18   Because that they have to keep dancing around it when they present it.

00:59:21   I'm sure it causes lots of confusion when people try to buy it.

00:59:24   What a weird thing they keep doing with just insisting that this is just

00:59:29   it's the same product.

00:59:30   Well, except for this version.

00:59:31   This version of AirPods 5 with wireless charging case with different capabilities.

00:59:37   Come on.

00:59:38   It's physically different on the outside now.

00:59:40   At least last time they were physically the same on the outside.

00:59:42   But this on the outside is the physical outside appearance is also different, in

00:59:46   addition to the inside being different.

00:59:47   When when I bought this on the phone app, I was using the Apple

00:59:49   Store phone app.

00:59:50   Um, you have to tap on AirPods Five.

00:59:52   You're like, but I don't want the five.

00:59:54   I want the five with whatever.

00:59:55   Like, but you have to tap on five.

00:59:57   And then you have two choices within the five, which is like it's like

01:00:00   the bin CPU and then on bin CPU, it's like AirPods Five or AirPods

01:00:04   Five with wireless charging case.

01:00:06   And then it says in little bullet points, also it has a volume control.

01:00:09   Also, it has better battery on.

01:00:11   Like anyway.

01:00:12   It's a different product.

01:00:13   Just call it something else.

01:00:15   AirPods 5, AirPods 5 Plus, AirPods.

01:00:19   Five Pro.

01:00:20   Done.

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01:02:14   Apple Watch Series 12.

01:02:16   Uh they made a big stink about health and fitness and their new health

01:02:20   sensing system.

01:02:22   Uh there's uh different physical sensors on the back of the Apple Watch.

01:02:26   Uh there's increased area for the electrodes, redesigned photodiodes, uh larger, more efficient, more

01:02:31   power efficient uh green LEDs.

01:02:33   And this leads to accurate heart rate measuring all day long, every five seconds

01:02:38   which is like a sixty X increase or something like that.

01:02:40   Yeah.

01:02:41   This is hu so this I think by by introducing this new sensor array,

01:02:46   and they talked a lot about you know they they said that they did

01:02:48   a new study where that showed that Apple Watch now has the most accurate

01:02:52   heart rate sensing in a wearable.

01:02:54   Like between that and this kind of more continuous background heart rate monitoring, this

01:03:00   is really gonna compete if it works, a lot better with like the garments

01:03:05   and the you know, th that kind of wearable of the world um in

01:03:09   a lot of those areas.

01:03:10   I think this is great, especially like the background heart rate now being taken

01:03:15   every five seconds instead of I guess every 15 minutes or whatever that would

01:03:18   be.

01:03:19   Um that's a big difference.

01:03:21   That's a really big difference.

01:03:23   Um, you know, and it's it ha it samples HRV every five minutes, which

01:03:27   is also like a huge increase from where it was before this is much

01:03:32   closer to continuous heart rate all day.

01:03:35   Like that's basically what this is.

01:03:37   Like that's very, very close to what this is.

01:03:39   And that, if they choose to use the data this way, which that's, but

01:03:43   if they choose to use this data in this way, they could do things

01:03:47   like it's basically always tracking a workout in some form.

01:03:51   So like if you forget to start your workout, or if you forget to

01:03:54   stop your workout, or if you get forget to resume your workout after you've

01:03:56   paused it for a while they now will have more data that they can

01:04:00   kind of patch in to make up for that.

01:04:03   Um they can probably also, if they choose to use this, have better sensing

01:04:08   for things like the workout detection things of like, did you did you start

01:04:11   a walk outside?

01:04:12   Like maybe that feature can get better with this new data.

01:04:15   There's all sorts of potential for

01:04:18   all of the heart monitoring and related features of the Apple Watch to get

01:04:23   significantly better now that they're gonna have way more frequent data when you're not

01:04:27   in a workout.

01:04:28   So that I think could be very, very promising for you know general Apple

01:04:32   Watch usefulness over time.

01:04:34   And um you know, to to also have this new sensor that promises to

01:04:38   be more accurate.

01:04:40   That's very, very promising.

01:04:42   I hope this pans out the way it sounds like it it could.

01:04:45   Yep.

01:04:45   It sounds really, really good.

01:04:47   Uh they did this comparison where they led to the conclusion that they are

01:04:50   they we only we are the best uh and most accurate wearable.

01:04:54   Uh they did this by apparently comparing to an ECG chest strap as a

01:04:57   reference, which I mean, fair enough.

01:04:59   Um they talked about all sorts of different health stuff.

01:05:01   I I honestly it I was paying attention, but it was so much so

01:05:05   fast that I think I need to have some time with the redesigned health

01:05:08   app, which uh is not coming until later this year.

01:05:11   But one of the things they said is they're going to do a readiness

01:05:14   like score from zero through 10, which is your body's capacity to take on

01:05:18   the day.

01:05:18   So basically, hey, we think you're exhausted, maybe take it easy.

01:05:21   Or, oh, you slept great.

01:05:23   You should go run a marathon, or whatever the case may be.

01:05:26   This is uh such a great gamification of health, like literally gamification, like when

01:05:30   you have video game characters where you have abilities on cooldown, and it's oh

01:05:33   your your meters are fully charged, right?

01:05:35   Like this is basically you're starting the day and it's like, you know, like

01:05:38   what was it?

01:05:39   Like good to go or like go for it is like you're you know,

01:05:41   all your meters are fully charged versus like maybe take it easy, maybe you

01:05:45   know, and so this this goes great with the other gamification that they add,

01:05:49   which is health age, which I know lots of apps and stuff have done

01:05:52   this, but it's like, you know, what everyone wants to hear is like you're

01:05:56   thirty years old, but you have the heart of a twenty year old.

01:05:59   Like everyone wants to hear that.

01:06:00   No one wants you're thirty years old, but you have the heart of a

01:06:03   sixty five year old.

01:06:04   Uh and unfortunately, if this feature is accurate, both of those are possibilities.

01:06:08   So everyone wants to hear that they're younger than they think they are, but

01:06:11   I guess finding out that you have the heart of an eighty year old

01:06:13   when you're forty is Telling you something and maybe go to the doctor, but

01:06:16   uh that's another one of those sort of like gamified stats of like, you

01:06:19   know, what uh what are my character stats?

01:06:22   Uh how full are my meters?

01:06:23   Uh that's what these things are telling you in theory.

01:06:26   And this is also the the readiness score and and all this stuff, this

01:06:30   is following a lot of broader trends in the fitness wearable market.

01:06:34   Like this is exactly the kind of thing that like whoop bands and aura

01:06:38   rings and all these other wearables that have had you know had some success

01:06:41   recently.

01:06:41   Um this is the kind of thing they do Their apps analyze their data

01:06:45   and they tell you basically all of these same things.

01:06:48   And that's a large part of why people like them.

01:06:50   Like people buy these by these other wearables for all sorts of other reasons,

01:06:54   but this is these are all very popular features of them.

01:06:57   So as Apple, you know, we we got the rumor uh a few shows

01:07:00   ago that that larger Apple Watch rethinks are in the works and they're looking

01:07:05   to maybe rethink some of the lineup and expand them and and go into

01:07:08   new markets and stuff um you know over the next few years, but none

01:07:12   of that was going to be ready yet in time for this.

01:07:14   This kind of shows like they're taking a step towards that.

01:07:17   They I think they're realizing that they are honestly losing ground to a lot

01:07:22   of these other wearables.

01:07:23   Like As I said back then, um, you know, a few weeks ago and

01:07:26   we talked about it, look around at how many like young people are wearing

01:07:30   Apple watches and it seems like the numbers going down.

01:07:33   Like it seems like no one's wearing an Apple Watch that I'm seeing like

01:07:37   below age twenty-five.

01:07:39   Well young people are healthy or think they are anyway.

01:07:41   Yeah, but but it it does seem like I'm seeing a lot of whoop

01:07:45   bands and aura rings and I I'm not seeing the Apple Watch seem to

01:07:50   grow.

01:07:51   Um so they do need to move into these markets.

01:07:53   And this, you know, the hardware probably is not ready yet for them to

01:07:57   start doing that.

01:07:58   But I'm glad to see them like starting to take this competition seriously by

01:08:01   doing a lot more of these software features and by working on the basics,

01:08:05   things like the heart rate accuracy like to you know, to try to compete

01:08:08   better with the rest of the market.

01:08:10   So this is all kind of playing into that story, I think.

01:08:13   So I'm glad to see it.

01:08:14   Yeah.

01:08:15   So like I said, there's a lot of health stuff.

01:08:17   Um and I tried so hard to keep up and I I couldn't.

01:08:21   So uh we're gonna mostly skip over that.

01:08:23   Uh they talked about some new Apple intelligence stuff for the watch specifically, uh

01:08:27   and especially audio intelligence.

01:08:29   This includes sound recognition, so your Apple Watch will know uh if there was

01:08:33   like a doorbell in the background, for example they also talked about live rewind,

01:08:38   which lets you see a transcript of the last 15 seconds of conversation around

01:08:42   you.

01:08:42   You do this by double pressing the digital crown.

01:08:45   Um, they had this as the way they demoed this is a waitress or

01:08:49   you know, a s supposed waitress rattling off today's specials at a restaurant at

01:08:54   just an astonishing pace, which of course, uh but it was very contrived and

01:08:58   very funny to me.

01:08:59   You know, you can just ask the server to repeat the specials just That

01:09:03   is something you could do.

01:09:03   And and by the way, it's a 15-second cap.

01:09:07   It's not gonna fit.

01:09:08   When's the last time?

01:09:09   Like, if you're at a restaurant and they're reading off some, you know, some

01:09:12   lengthy specials, let's say, it's not gonna fit in fifteen seconds.

01:09:16   I assure you.

01:09:17   Like it's less.

01:09:18   Marco, what do you even know about restaurants?

01:09:20   Fifteen seconds is long for specials, but I well so here's the other thing.

01:09:23   It's a transcript either, it's a summary.

01:09:25   That's true.

01:09:25   It is not i I sh I did say transcript, and I think that

01:09:27   might be inaccurate.

01:09:28   I think you're right, John.

01:09:29   It's a summary of Well no, I I think the 15 second uh one,

01:09:33   I think that I'll double check the the white paper.

01:09:34   I think that one actually is a transcript.

01:09:37   Um, but it's the Siri recap feature, which we'll probably get to in a

01:09:40   second.

01:09:40   That's the summary.

01:09:41   Yes, yes, yes that's well either way, when they showed the little demo, remember

01:09:45   you're looking at this on a watch screen.

01:09:47   So fift can you imagine scrolling through fifteen seconds of speech on a watch

01:09:51   screen and trying to get something out of it?

01:09:53   It's not ideal.

01:09:53   Yeah, fair.

01:09:54   Definitely not.

01:09:55   And then as Marco just brought up, there's Siri Recap, which is basically in

01:09:59   the same way that the heart rate stuff was like a screw you to

01:10:01   the whoop band, Siri Recap is a screw you to like the little pendants

01:10:05   that everyone seems to think are very cool.

01:10:07   So what this is is uh high-level notes of your conversations.

01:10:10   You review them in the Siri app.

01:10:13   You can enable it always or on a schedule.

01:10:15   You can turn it on or off via control center.

01:10:17   The audio is not recorded or stored, I think.

01:10:20   Uh the audio cannot be accessed by anyone, including Apple.

01:10:24   The speakers are not identified.

01:10:25   And I didn't get a chance to read this.

01:10:27   It sounds like Marco, you at least got a chance to skim it.

01:10:29   But there's actually a okay, there you go.

01:10:31   So there's a white paper that talks about the privacy implications of all this.

01:10:35   Since Marco, you read it, can you give us any notes from that or

01:10:38   is it not really that interesting?

01:10:39   All right.

01:10:39   So the everyone is reacting to this and I think it is warranted.

01:10:46   So the way this works, the way Apple has designed it, is audio is

01:10:51   recorded on the watch in a special area of the SOC that is isolated

01:10:55   from the rest.

01:10:56   So they so like the operating system and the rest of the SOC doesn't

01:10:59   have access to the audio data.

01:11:01   It is signed.

01:11:02   It is encrypted and signed.

01:11:03   It is then sent off the watch to your iPhone over Bluetooth.

01:11:08   The iPhone SOCs from 16 from iPhone 16 Pro forward.

01:11:13   Um the iPhone SOCs also have one of those similar exclaves that isolates the

01:11:19   audio, can decrypt the one with like a key pair thing from the phone

01:11:22   or from the watch.

01:11:23   And so basically, so the watch records audio but can't read it, sends it

01:11:27   to the phone, the phone reads the audio and transcribes it on the phone.

01:11:30   Because I guess they don't want to burn the watch's battery, burn the transcription

01:11:33   model on the watch.

01:11:34   And the phone obviously can have better models anyway.

01:11:37   So then the phone summarizes it using local Apple intelligence.

01:11:42   To cut it down to about half of its length and try to enforce

01:11:46   some kind of guardrails on whether this is a transcript of a conversation we

01:11:49   want to keep or record at all.

01:11:52   Then it sends it to private cloud compute, which does an even more involved

01:11:57   summarization and safety guardrail check.

01:12:00   And it sends it to private cloud compute along with a bunch of context

01:12:05   data, the same way they send Siri AI requests.

01:12:08   So you know that your personal context about things like where you are, what's

01:12:12   going on around you, that kind of stuff.

01:12:14   It sends all that to private cloud compute, and then that generates basically an

01:12:19   even denser and more filtered summary of what is being said around you.

01:12:24   And then those are kept for seven days and everything is local and end-to-end

01:12:28   encrypted, similar to other iCloud, you know, sensitive data like your keychain and your

01:12:31   health data and stuff like that.

01:12:33   So that's how this works.

01:12:36   And they s they're saying they are filtering out things like personal identifiers and

01:12:42   and you know that kind of sensitive information.

01:12:45   But that is all a lot of guardrails and a lot of safeties and

01:12:49   a lot of technical hoops jumping through to protect your privacy for something that

01:12:53   is fundamentally an invasion of privacy.

01:12:57   There are lots of ways that you could see this going wrong.

01:13:01   Um, they they're very careful to say that the audio is not accessible to

01:13:06   anything, anywhere anybody, anytime.

01:13:09   But the topics of what you talked about are.

01:13:12   And there's lots of situations that you can imagine where that is first of

01:13:18   all pretty sensitive.

01:13:20   Second of all, possibly dangerous to the people in the conversation.

01:13:25   Third of all, possibly um violating people's trust around you by them not realizing

01:13:31   that you have a device on your wrist that is taking notes on your

01:13:35   criminal effing conspiracy.

01:13:37   Um there's a lot of potential problems with this.

01:13:42   And honestly, I don't know why Apple is inviting the flames onto themselves for

01:13:49   this.

01:13:50   Like, why would they want to turn the Apple Watch into something that everyone

01:13:55   is going to be as suspicious about as the Meta Ray Band glasses?

01:13:59   That's what they're doing with this feature.

01:14:02   And I and they're you know rumored to be doing the same thing with

01:14:04   the AirPods with the cameras.

01:14:05   And I think this model of what we're seeing here is actually probably a

01:14:10   pretty good indicator of what the AirPods Pro with cameras are going to do

01:14:14   themselves which is they're probably gonna do the same thing not only with audio,

01:14:17   but also with video of like they're taking video probably, they're probably not going

01:14:23   to make those recordings of the video available to anything, but they will probably

01:14:27   analyze the content of what's going on around you and take notes and allow

01:14:31   you to review those notes.

01:14:33   That's that's my guess.

01:14:34   Uh but anyway, going back to the Apple Watch, think about the kind of

01:14:37   the kinds of things they can record here.

01:14:39   Sensitive personal conversations.

01:14:41   Sensitive work conversations.

01:14:44   Things that are risky.

01:14:45   Things like, for instance, like coordinating, scheduling, and discussing an abortion.

01:14:50   There's a lot of states where that is not a safe thing to be

01:14:53   on a record somewhere.

01:14:54   Uh what about if you are queer and you live somewhere where that is

01:14:59   illegal or very dangerous, um, and you have any record of that whatsoever, there's

01:15:05   a lot of situations where Apple is is considering that, well, this is all

01:15:09   secure and no one's ever gonna get to it.

01:15:11   What if your spouse knows your passcode?

01:15:14   That's pretty common.

01:15:16   What if someone else is looking in looking at your phone and you don't

01:15:20   necessarily know that they're looking at your phone?

01:15:23   There's a lot of untrusting relationships out there or a lot of things that

01:15:27   you think are no big deal and it's no big deal for someone to

01:15:30   have access to this, but then they they get access to it or they

01:15:33   see something that maybe you didn't think they would see or that maybe you

01:15:35   didn't even know they were gre they could see.

01:15:38   This just seems like it's an incredibly dangerous foot gun to use AI to

01:15:46   speak, which I know I know I didn't invent the term foot gun, but

01:15:48   it uses it a lot, which is fun.

01:15:49   Um but I don't know why they're taking this on.

01:15:53   I don't think the value is just so massive that it's worth

01:15:59   the possible reputational damage and heat of this.

01:16:04   In the same way, I I said similar things when they launched the AirTag,

01:16:07   because the AirTag also kind of seemed like, Wow, this is a really big

01:16:10   risk of like privacy, reputational problems and and stuff like that for for a

01:16:14   pretty small product, honestly.

01:16:16   And I think this is the this is the next level of that.

01:16:19   This is Apple putting a feature into every series twelve and ultra four Apple

01:16:26   Watch that I think is going to really make people hate them.

01:16:30   It's gonna invite problems.

01:16:32   It's going to be used in criminal cases.

01:16:35   It's going to be used for persecution.

01:16:36   It's going for domestic surveillance and spying on people.

01:16:40   It's going to be used for harm.

01:16:42   Now it's also going to be used for good.

01:16:44   And you can think of lots of like useful things about this, but does

01:16:49   that overcome the harm of even with what they've done?

01:16:54   Of like it is privately recorded and the audio is never sent anywhere or

01:16:59   or readable by anything, and you're only seeing transcripts and summaries of transcripts, high-level

01:17:04   topical summaries, but like but even a high-level topical summary could contain sensitive information.

01:17:11   And I do think it is a violation of trust of the people around

01:17:15   you to use something like this.

01:17:19   And I just I do not see this ending well for them.

01:17:22   Did they talk about the uh activation situation with this?

01:17:26   Is this a thing that you have to opt into?

01:17:28   Is it on all the time?

01:17:29   Do you have to activate it and turn it on?

01:17:31   If you do turn it on, how long does stay on?

01:17:33   Do they cover any of that?

01:17:34   Yeah, it's so it's there's a switch in control center on the watch.

01:17:36   Uh just like a in a regular icon on control center.

01:17:39   You can turn it on and off whenever you want and you can have

01:17:41   it um gated to certain areas.

01:17:43   You can say only have it on when I'm at work is the example

01:17:45   they use.

01:17:46   So it seems like it has some kind of geofense capability where you can,

01:17:49   you know, use it here or don't use it here, but you know what's

01:17:52   gonna happen.

01:17:53   People are just gonna leave it on.

01:17:54   Like that's that's what's going to happen.

01:17:55   And even even if they don't, even if you say, fine, just use it

01:17:58   at work, how does your employer feel about that?

01:18:00   How do all of your coworkers feel about that?

01:18:02   Like there's there's just a lot of potential giant red flags on this that

01:18:08   just make me wonder why they put this in here.

01:18:11   I think it's because this is the trendy AI thing to do.

01:18:15   This is perhaps because Silicon Valley is its own little bubble that doesn't really

01:18:19   understand reality a lot of the time.

01:18:21   Um, I think it's because that this is this is a very much keeping

01:18:24   up with the Joneses sort of feature.

01:18:25   I don't particular way with any particular thing you just said, but I think

01:18:29   that Apple feels like this is table stakes, and so here they are.

01:18:33   My my guess is this is a shot at open AI.

01:18:37   'Cause like th yeah, there's a bunch of like dumb little startups trying to

01:18:40   make stuff like this.

01:18:41   No one's buying them.

01:18:42   It isn't like Apple is catching up with the rest of the world here,

01:18:45   because the rest of the world largely has said we don't care about these

01:18:47   kinds of products.

01:18:48   Um but which is why not everyone's wearing them all the time.

01:18:52   Um so I could see like if if there was some like you know

01:18:56   AI necklace that was taking off that everybody was buying and using in their

01:18:59   work meetings, I could totally see Apple saying, Okay we're gonna do that for

01:19:04   the Apple Watch and neutralize that market.

01:19:05   But that market doesn't exist.

01:19:07   It's it it's not there.

01:19:08   People keep saying it's going to be there, like the next big thing, like

01:19:11   you know, m the metaverse, and it's not there.

01:19:13   Like no nobody wants it.

01:19:15   Um so Apple kind of walked in here as if that market was already

01:19:19   there.

01:19:19   So that's why I think maybe maybe OpenAI was going in this direction with

01:19:24   one of their products.

01:19:24   And so Apple, as we know, is pretty annoyed at OpenAI's hardware efforts.

01:19:29   So maybe that it influenced this and and possibly um blinded them to some

01:19:36   of the realities of what this means and and what this might mean for

01:19:38   them.

01:19:39   Um I hope that's not the answer.

01:19:40   I I hope they had a better reason than that.

01:19:42   But uh at this moment I'm not really seeing it.

01:19:46   Maybe they're thinking of it as an accessibility thing or whatever, but it definitely

01:19:48   wasn't that way.

01:19:49   You know, a a more aptly way to do this, and obviously that it's

01:19:53   not the what they chose to do, but a more aptly way to do

01:19:55   this with the with the pieces they have is uh make it iPhone only,

01:19:58   uh, and require the proximity sensor on the front of the iPhone to not

01:20:04   be sensing anything in front of it.

01:20:06   Right.

01:20:06   So then basically you're requiring the screen to be like unobstructed and then put

01:20:10   some kind of graphic on the screen that's like a giant red siren rotating.

01:20:14   So that basically it becomes much, much harder to surreptitiously record anybody because if

01:20:19   you can't have your phone in your pocket, you can't have your phone face

01:20:21   down on the table, you have to have it somewhere where there's like a

01:20:24   clear shot from the screen out into the world.

01:20:27   And you could still use it that way, but like that would be acknowledging

01:20:29   the main problem with this, which as you said is Mark was like, do

01:20:32   people know?

01:20:33   Like people are gonna look at you and say, Oh, you have an Apple

01:20:35   Watch, are you recording me?

01:20:36   Which is exactly the meta Ray Ban problem.

01:20:38   Oh, it's got a line on it, you'll always know, blah, blah, blah.

01:20:40   Oh, yeah, really?

01:20:41   Um, if it's if it can be hidden at all, it's uh you don't

01:20:44   notice someone's you don't think their watch is recording you.

01:20:46   And maybe an AI pen it'll be more obvious, but you know what's more

01:20:48   obvious than a watch?

01:20:50   A phone screen up on the table with a graphic on it that's going

01:20:53   with a giant ear going, We're listening, we're because there's These products are useful

01:20:58   in like work contexts and stuff like that.

01:21:00   But the problem is, okay, but what about the whole rest of the context?

01:21:03   And geofencing's not gonna cut it.

01:21:05   And like you s you don't want to be suspicious of these things in

01:21:08   other contexts.

01:21:09   And if it's just a built-in feature of the watch, that makes every watch

01:21:13   suspect.

01:21:14   Whereas if it's something that people just use at work in a very obvious

01:21:18   way, uh, you know, and maybe the the phone proximity sensor is not a

01:21:20   great idea, but like something like that, you know, where the egg or the

01:21:23   donut has a a flashing light on it that can't be disabled or something,

01:21:27   and the egg or the donut is harder to hide.

01:21:29   I don't know.

01:21:29   It's it's difficult, uh, but like I feel like we're in s still in

01:21:32   the early stages of adapting society to these technologies.

01:21:37   Kind of in the same way when like photography first became a thing, we

01:21:40   had to establish societal norms and eventually laws about when it is and isn't

01:21:44   okay to take a photograph of strangers.

01:21:47   Um, I'm not saying we have the perfect situation for that, but it took

01:21:50   a long time from the advent of photography to the current situation now where

01:21:53   we don't view cameras as this giant invasion of privacy we because we have,

01:21:57   again, laws and social norms about when it is and isn't appropriate to use

01:22:01   them.

01:22:01   And you can still be creepy with a camera and blah blah blah, but

01:22:03   nobody knows any of that stuff for this stuff.

01:22:05   Forget about laws.

01:22:05   We don't have any laws about anything because we can't pass laws anymore in

01:22:08   this country.

01:22:08   But correct.

01:22:09   Um but for like s societal norms, this technology is all too new.

01:22:13   We have no idea, like I mean the the norm of the meta ray

01:22:16   bands is don't do it because you look like a creep.

01:22:18   But what what's the social norm if once the Apple Watchers can do it?

01:22:21   We'll we'll figure this out.

01:22:22   But I agree with you, Marco.

01:22:23   This is probably not the final form and it's probably a bad idea.

01:22:27   And why are they doing it?

01:22:28   I yeah, I think it's like it's pressure and open AI and it's like,

01:22:32   well we can do it and everyone else is doing it, so we should

01:22:34   try to do it too.

01:22:35   And probably a bad call.

01:22:37   Yeah.

01:22:37   And then if you think about like think about all the contexts now that

01:22:41   like in you know, six months from now, all the different types of workplaces

01:22:46   and societal places and situations where they're no longer gonna allow people to wear

01:22:51   Apple Watches.

01:22:52   And now think about the same thing happening to AirPods within a year.

01:22:55   Like that's why I think these features are are dangerous to the product in

01:22:58   the sen if in lots of ways, but also in the sense of like

01:23:02   you're giving more workplaces and and venues and things, you're giving more places reasons

01:23:08   to ban people from wearing these devices and using these devices there.

01:23:12   And that is is not good for the products.

01:23:14   You know, if you're wearing an Apple Watch for health monitoring or for the

01:23:19   many, many different utilities that it offers, you don't want to have to take

01:23:23   it off when you go to work because now your workplace has a policy

01:23:25   that nobody can wear Apple Watches because they're recording everybody all the time.

01:23:29   Same thing, like they're if they're pushing the AirPods as health aids, like the

01:23:33   hearing aid features of AirPods are amazing.

01:23:36   The hearing protection, like this is all the last thing Apple should be pushing

01:23:39   for is any reason to make it societally unacceptable to wear AirPods.

01:23:46   But yet, if they launch the camera AirPods, they're gonna do exactly that.

01:23:50   And and again, this is that same thing for the Apple Watch.

01:23:53   I worry about that for these products because these are products that have amazing

01:23:57   value the more you wear them and in the more places you wear them.

01:24:01   And the last thing Apple should be doing is giving businesses and things reasons

01:24:06   to ban them.

01:24:07   I think they could do the air I don't know what they're gonna with

01:24:09   the AirPods one, but I think they could do the AirPod line in a

01:24:11   way better way because uh first of all, d don't have it be a

01:24:15   camera but have it be like an IR sprayer or something so there's never

01:24:17   any visual data or whatever.

01:24:19   And second of all, have the only function of it be what's in front

01:24:22   of you right now I will speak a summary of it to you.

01:24:25   Like what kind of bird is that?

01:24:26   What kind of car just went by?

01:24:27   Who am I talking to?

01:24:29   So there's never any permanent record of anything.

01:24:31   There's no quote unquote recording of anything.

01:24:33   It is entirely some kind of sensor sees what's in front of me, AI,

01:24:38   blah, blah, blah, real time, speaks into my ears and that's it.

01:24:41   No data retention whatsoever.

01:24:43   I think that would be privacy preserving, it would be good for accessibility and

01:24:46   it would let people identify birds and remember people names.

01:24:49   Yeah, I mean that like th i when you when you hear the stories

01:24:52   of how much blind people can be can benefit from the meta ray band,

01:24:56   because it's a way for something with AI sensibilities to look at the world

01:25:00   around them, tell them what's around them, and keep their hands free because their

01:25:04   hands are probably busy with a dog, a cane, object, something else.

01:25:08   Like that's why it's so game changing for blind people with the Ray Bans.

01:25:11   The AirPods with the cameras would have presumably similar value and probably even more

01:25:17   value.

01:25:18   Because they c they would probably have way longer battery life.

01:25:21   They would cost less money.

01:25:21   So like that's And they wouldn't be sending your video to a data center

01:25:24   in some country where someone can look at it.

01:25:26   Yes, exactly.

01:25:27   So that's possibly very helpful.

01:25:28   Um but again, like if there's any creepy features that are there, they're gonna

01:25:35   get a stigma associated with them and it's going to harm all those use

01:25:39   cases.

01:25:39   So Apple has to be very careful with the features they develop around this.

01:25:43   And this Apple Watch feature suggests to me that they're not being careful enough.

01:25:47   All right.

01:25:47   Uh we gotta hurry this along.

01:25:49   So there's a new SOC, uh, there's some new colors, space gray, black, light

01:25:53   gold, and dark bronze.

01:25:55   Uh the aluminum has ceramic shield two, which you knew from the iPhone's uh

01:25:59   seventeen pro.

01:26:00   Uh there's two new polished titanium finishes, Radiant Gold and Natural, which are which

01:26:05   is 100% recycled titanium.

01:26:07   It's one new finish.

01:26:07   The gold is the gold is lighter gold.

01:26:10   Fair enough.

01:26:11   Uh there's also ceramic in pearl white and night blue.

01:26:14   This all starts for an aluminum GPS model at four hundred bones.

01:26:17   You can pre-order today, available on the eighteenth of September.

01:26:20   Uh the Liszt family is in for so far.

01:26:23   One of the uh Apple Watch uh aluminum, uh the forty-four, whatever, forty-six millimeter

01:26:28   aluminum for me to replace my series ten.

01:26:31   I thought about going ultra, but I just don't think I need it.

01:26:34   I just don't think it's necessary for me.

01:26:35   So I'm in for one.

01:26:37   Uh once I get a chance to get Erin in front of the Apple

01:26:40   store, you know, like app or whatever, we're gonna order one for her.

01:26:43   Uh what did you guys buy, if anything?

01:26:46   I I'm getting um no pro iPhone this year.

01:26:50   Uh for the first time ever.

01:26:52   I'm just talking watches.

01:26:53   Slow down, kid.

01:26:54   I'm just talking watches.

01:26:55   We passed the phones already.

01:26:56   You didn't a Well, but there's one more phone to go.

01:26:58   There's one more thing Marco.

01:26:59   I didn't say anything about that.

01:27:01   There's actually one more thing.

01:27:02   Um but I for the for the watches, um I I didn't buy a

01:27:06   watch last year, uh so I'm rocking a series ten.

01:27:09   Uh I am gonna upgrade to the series twelve 'cause I want that ceramic.

01:27:13   They I had the ceramic back forever ago uh I believe it was the

01:27:17   series five was the last ceramic one they did.

01:27:19   Back then it was an addition that cost twelve hundred dollars.

01:27:22   Um so for now it only being nine hundred dollars is actually a reasonable

01:27:27   price for what it is.

01:27:28   It's about it's like I think it's slightly more than the titaniums or th

01:27:31   or the same price as titanium.

01:27:32   So that's honestly great news to me.

01:27:35   The thing with s the thing to know about ceramic, and I it looks

01:27:38   this way on the new ones too, uh the

01:27:42   bezel around the screen, there's like a slight gap between the screen crystal and

01:27:48   where the ceramic starts, like the curvature of it, like it juts out slightly.

01:27:52   So the this like the crystal mound on top is slightly smaller than the

01:28:00   ceramic base it's sitting on.

01:28:01   So if you care about that kind of detail, like when I had the

01:28:04   Series five, I noticed that and I didn't like it.

01:28:07   And this this one looks like it has the exact same um design.

01:28:11   The ceramic is also very slightly larger in footprint, probably for that reason.

01:28:15   And the ceramic is heavier than titanium.

01:28:17   Uh so it's something to know.

01:28:19   The other thing with ceramic is that it will make it so that any

01:28:22   watch band you have that has the like the shiny polished metal lugs will

01:28:28   look wrong.

01:28:29   Um so it it does restrict your band choice somewhat in that there is

01:28:34   no like matching metal finish for the ceramic.

01:28:37   Um one other thing to know, for some reason the dark blue ceramic is

01:28:41   heavier than the white ceramic.

01:28:43   I don't know why.

01:28:44   Um Yeah, it's not by a lot, it's like one gram or a gram

01:28:47   and a half, but for some reason the blue is heavier.

01:28:50   And the white, I'm not entirely sure, is white.

01:28:55   Like I I was I was watching all the YouTube videos from the hands

01:28:58   on area trying to figure out like eggshell.

01:29:00   Yeah, like they're calling it the the the band they sell that matches it

01:29:03   is called Sand.

01:29:05   Um and it's it's it's definitely some kind of off-white uh but the question

01:29:09   is how far off I guess?

01:29:12   Um so that also could make it a little bit more difficult to match

01:29:15   with straps.

01:29:16   Uh so we'll see how that goes, uh but I'm I'm looking forward to

01:29:20   it for um you know more for novelty sake.

01:29:23   Like the the regular series Apple Watch has looked so similar for so long.

01:29:29   Uh I'm ready for some novelty in its design.

01:29:33   And that's and I've I've enjoyed wearing an ultra for most of the summer,

01:29:36   in part because of the novelty of the design, and in part because I

01:29:40   like the big screen.

01:29:41   I'm hoping the white ceramic will will kind of tide us over design wise

01:29:44   on the regular series so it doesn't seem so boring and so played out

01:29:48   until we get some kind of you know different hardware redesign, which is again

01:29:52   rumored for next year.

01:29:53   Um the other thing I'll I'll say is on the Ultra uh four We're

01:29:58   not there yet.

01:29:59   Oh, sorry.

01:29:59   We'll be able to do that.

01:30:00   But to be honest, there's almost nothing to say, so carry on.

01:30:02   Although although Marco, I will say, um are you going to order your ceramic

01:30:06   watch without seeing it?

01:30:07   Are you going to wait till you see it in person to pick which

01:30:09   one you want?

01:30:09   I just ordered it because in the videos it looks pretty bright white.

01:30:13   Um you got the white one?

01:30:15   Yeah, I got the white one.

01:30:16   And I and I went back to the smaller one.

01:30:18   Um so for the for the last few months I've I've kind of gone

01:30:22   between um the small one, the big one and the ultra at different times.

01:30:26   I'll spend like a few weeks with each one, mostly testing out UIs and

01:30:29   stuff, but then you know also kind of seeing how it fits in my

01:30:32   life.

01:30:32   The I w I would wear the Ultra year round if it didn't suck

01:30:36   so badly when you have a long sleeve over it or a jacket cuff.

01:30:40   Like anything with like a cuff sleeve or a jacket, the way it goes

01:30:43   over that ultra, just it's so clumsy like getting it over the that thick,

01:30:48   bulky, sharp-edged watch.

01:30:50   But all summer, I love the old jerk, 'cause I'm not I don't have

01:30:52   a jacket or a long sleeve shirt, so that's great.

01:30:54   Um but in the winter I like something that that's sleekier and goes under

01:30:56   a sleeve better.

01:30:57   So for me that's the regular one.

01:30:59   And I I like the small one.

01:31:02   It's just so light and and like unobtrusive on my wrist.

01:31:06   It feels like I'm you know like I'm I'm my I'm waving my arms

01:31:09   around ridiculously right now.

01:31:10   It just feels like I can like wave my arms and if they're all

01:31:13   they're all lightweight and mm I'm I'm free, free as a bird.

01:31:16   Um so I like that.

01:31:17   Um so we'll see we'll see how that goes.

01:31:19   Um the ultra, let's might as well cover that now.

01:31:21   Ultra four.

01:31:22   Uh longer battery life.

01:31:24   Uh seems the same otherwise.

01:31:26   You know, the new SOC.

01:31:27   So it has the new software features and the new sensors on the back.

01:31:30   Longer battery life for some reason.

01:31:32   Uh Uh which seems probably mostly related to the SOC.

01:31:35   And they ruined some of the band colors.

01:31:38   That's about it.

01:31:39   Like so all of the the watch bands this year, the um the ultra

01:31:46   I think the best band for the Ultra is the Ocean Band.

01:31:48   It's the silicone band with like the bumps and the like the ridged loops

01:31:53   and you can like pick any slot and you know, stick it in and

01:31:56   kind of buckle it down.

01:31:57   And they made for some reason they turned these wonderfully colored ocean bands previously

01:32:02   into this like translucent garbage color.

01:32:06   And they it's three different garbage colors that are all translucent.

01:32:09   They look terrible in the pictures.

01:32:11   I'm hoping they look

01:32:14   it look better in real life.

01:32:15   It looks horrendous.

01:32:17   So I think they might have temporarily ruined the ocean band.

01:32:20   Uh but that which would be a which would be a shame because it

01:32:22   is the best ultra band.

01:32:23   But the rest of the lineup, everything is very earth toned, which is very

01:32:28   in right now.

01:32:28   This is what I was talking about earlier.

01:32:30   Browns, beigees, this is all very, very in.

01:32:34   Which honestly, I'm not a fan of this trend.

01:32:37   It's very hard for me to buy nice shirts this year for as a

01:32:39   result 'cause everything is different colors of beige and brown, which do not look

01:32:43   good on me and are impossible to match to each other or anything else.

01:32:46   But that's what's in fashion.

01:32:47   So that's what the Apple Watch is.

01:32:49   The Apple Watch is trying to keep up with fashion.

01:32:51   Lots of browns, lots of earth tones, lots of soft grays and you know

01:32:56   beigas and stuff like that.

01:32:57   So that's why they're doing all these colors the way they are.

01:33:00   Uh we'll see how these look in practice and you know it's gonna be

01:33:04   it's gonna v look very much of this year and then next year we'll

01:33:08   have different colors and we'll s we'll get it roll the roll the dice

01:33:11   again.

01:33:12   iPhone or excuse me, Apple Watch Ultra Four, uh eight hundred bones, you can

01:33:16   pre-order it today, available the eighteenth of September.

01:33:19   Now you circle back to the the series twelve watch for a second.

01:33:21   Uh I don't wear an Apple watch, so this is not particularly relevant to

01:33:24   me.

01:33:25   But I will say that my expectations were so low for what the series

01:33:28   twelve watch would be, and you know, physically speaking it is what you thought

01:33:31   it just looks like every other watch, and I knew there would be a

01:33:33   new SOC, but I have to say, when they got done with that Series

01:33:36   12 presentation, I'm like, this is the best Series X, whatever Apple Watch they've

01:33:42   introduced in years.

01:33:43   Because first of all, they did actually change the hardware with the new SOC

01:33:46   and it has, you know, fancy features and more neural engines and stuff like

01:33:49   that.

01:33:49   Like finally, um, it has that whole like the back sensor thing.

01:33:53   That's a small thing.

01:33:54   Like that's the whole watch is basically a screen, an SOC, a battery, and

01:33:58   that thing on the back.

01:33:59   And they 100% change the thing on the back in large ways that maybe

01:34:02   That make it better.

01:34:03   And so I feel like this is kind of like a what we used

01:34:06   to think of like an S generation phone.

01:34:07   Oh, it looks the same on the outside, but everything about it is better.

01:34:10   Um, and then all the software features, setting aside the privacy invasion stuff, the

01:34:14   other software features they had, I just think this is the best the biggest

01:34:18   leap over the series N minus one phone that they've had in years.

01:34:22   And again, I don't I don't even care about the phone or the watch.

01:34:25   No, I think I said phone.

01:34:26   I don't even care about the watch.

01:34:27   I don't wear the watch.

01:34:28   But I think this is a great one.

01:34:29   So if you are waiting for like when is the right time to buy

01:34:32   an Apple Watch, if you have any interest in them, I think the series

01:34:35   twelve is a really good time, especially if you like the current design, because

01:34:38   someday in theory they will change the design.

01:34:40   But that time is not this year, and this seems like a really, really

01:34:44   good Apple watch series, whatever watch, uh both in hardware and software.

01:34:49   And I think in the choices that you have of finishes, setting aside the

01:34:52   earth tone bands, I do like the polished titanium versus like the matte ones.

01:34:56   I think ceramic is cool.

01:34:58   Uh I was very impressed.

01:34:59   This is like it's the uh most improved or exceeded expectations thing on this

01:35:04   keynote for me is the Apple Watch series twelve.

01:35:07   Yeah, it it looks like a a nice all around update.

01:35:11   It depends a lot on how good those new sensors are.

01:35:15   If they are as good as they sound, if they really do provide like

01:35:19   nearly continuous heart rate monitoring all day, and the heart rate monitoring is more

01:35:22   accurate and better HRV and all those like you know readiness features.

01:35:26   And all the software features that tie into it to give you the little

01:35:28   scores and the gamification that build off the new stuff.

01:35:31   Like I just think it's a it's a great total package.

01:35:33   Yeah.

01:35:34   One other little thing I noticed when I was doing the spec comparisons, um

01:35:38   the uh previous Apple Watch series eleven um is listed as having GPS.

01:35:43   The Apple Watch Ultra has precision dual frequency GPS, which is L one and

01:35:47   L five, as I discussed back with my um my Sunto and Garmin segments.

01:35:51   Um the Apple Watch Series 12 now says precision L one GPS,

01:35:57   which is possibly the same thing as the old one.

01:36:01   Like cause L the the dual frequencies are L1 and L5.

01:36:05   The old Apple the Series 11 had L1.

01:36:07   Series 12 now says precision L1.

01:36:11   What does that mean?

01:36:12   Is it actually different?

01:36:14   I don't know.

01:36:14   But it it still isn't dual frequency, which honestly does surprise me because every

01:36:19   modern iPhone every modern Android phone, every Apple Watch Ultra, and every Sunto and

01:36:25   Garmin watch, you know, above a certain level, they all have dual frequency GPS

01:36:30   these days.

01:36:31   And the the regular series Apple Watch for it's still not to have that

01:36:35   is a little weird to me and a little unfortunate.

01:36:38   But anyway, that's a that's hopefully a minor thing.

01:36:41   And yes, I agree with John that this does look like potentially a very

01:36:46   strong update if those sensors are as good as Apple says they are.

01:36:51   We are sponsored this week by Quince.

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01:38:50   Yeah, so that's the entire press.

01:38:52   Oh, wait.

01:38:54   One more thing.

01:38:55   But the way first of all, what a move for John Turners to have

01:38:58   to use one more thing in his first keynote.

01:39:01   Um But that but he kinda soft played it.

01:39:03   He said, but actually there is one more thing.

01:39:06   Which is like the the butt actually I think really softens it.

01:39:10   Like I you know, this is maybe this is, you know, Turnus's style.

01:39:14   We'll see, but it was it was a little I thought it was like

01:39:18   a little bit fumbled in that way.

01:39:21   Well, the the whole one more thing phenomenon is totally undercut by the amount

01:39:27   that phone stuff leaks.

01:39:29   The ideal one more thing is I didn't even know Apple was working on

01:39:33   anything like this.

01:39:34   Obviously, that'll probably never happen again except for maybe with the Mac Pro that

01:39:37   no one cares about to leak.

01:39:38   But yeah, hell, even that will probably leak.

01:39:39   But like this thing, we knew every millimeter of this device before it was

01:39:44   released, so it's not like anyone was shocked.

01:39:46   Like, is the presentation over?

01:39:48   No, we know it's not over.

01:39:49   Well, to be fair, we knew everything about the hardware.

01:39:53   We really didn't know anything about the software.

01:39:55   Yeah yeah, yeah.

01:39:56   But I'm saying like it's not like the one more thing is like, what

01:39:59   do you mean you made an X?

01:40:01   Like we know it's a folding phone, just say it, right?

01:40:04   Anyway, it it it is it is uh uh kind of silly in in

01:40:07   the age where everything in this thing leaks.

01:40:08   But yeah, so the software stuff was all, you know, it's harder to leak.

01:40:11   Uh although sometimes that stuff leaks too, but this time a lot of it

01:40:13   was hidden.

01:40:14   Right.

01:40:15   So we get the iPhone duo.

01:40:19   Uh he uh turn us did a lead in with a bunch of uh

01:40:22   different quotes about it, none of which

01:40:25   And so I I will say that our all of our predictions have being

01:40:28   Ultra because Ultra was a stupid name and Apple likes to do stupid names.

01:40:31   Apple's like, oh, we always do stupid names.

01:40:33   Let's do a sensible one.

01:40:35   What do you think of that?

01:40:36   And they did.

01:40:37   It's a sensible name.

01:40:38   That's the reason one of the main reasons I thought they would never do

01:40:41   it is because it made too much sense.

01:40:43   And also the Surface Duo.

01:40:44   Everything's like, oh, Microsoft Surface Duo.

01:40:46   It's it's fine.

01:40:47   iPhone Duo and Surface Duo, I feel like, are not going to be in

01:40:50   conflict.

01:40:50   Anyway.

01:40:51   No one knows what that is.

01:40:52   The precedent here is obviously the PowerBook Duo.

01:40:54   Uh, have either one of you ever seen this device in person?

01:40:57   Uh doesn't Steven have one, I believe, that I think I've seen, if I'm

01:41:00   not mistaken.

01:41:01   Yeah, so when I when I worked in um uh I don't know what

01:41:05   the heck I was, a computer lab attendant in in college.

01:41:08   There was someone there was a professor who had a computer lab and I

01:41:10   took care of the computers there.

01:41:12   Doing retrospect backups to tape from the various Macs, they had a Next Cube

01:41:17   that uh Richard Greenblatt would use sometimes, and the professor had a PowerBook Duo,

01:41:22   which was an incredibly thin, incredibly light laptop from the nineties.

01:41:28   I think it was like four pounds in the nineties.

01:41:30   Like this is unprecedented.

01:41:32   And it was so small and thin because it had nothing in it.

01:41:34   There was no floppy drive.

01:41:35   Can you imagine a laptop with no floppy drive?

01:41:37   No optical drive.

01:41:39   Uh it was just a screen and a trackball, not a trackpad, and a

01:41:43   and a not even full-size keyboard, but it was incredibly thin.

01:41:45   Okay.

01:41:46   But it was useless because it's only good for portable stuff on the go.

01:41:50   Um, so it had a thing called the duo dock, which was like a

01:41:54   little garage that you shove it into.

01:41:56   It goes into a little slot.

01:41:58   And when you slot it into that thing, sitting on top of it would

01:42:01   be your big CRT monitor.

01:42:03   And when you shoved it in there, that box would have a floppy drive,

01:42:07   potentially another hard drive inside there, uh networking and all the peripheral connections that

01:42:12   you didn't have on the tiny laptop.

01:42:14   I think the box also had an FPU in it, a floating point processing

01:42:17   unit.

01:42:18   So the floating point unit was in the dock and not and you're like,

01:42:21   how can it use the floating point unit?

01:42:23   It's not even it's like things were slower back then.

01:42:25   You could do it.

01:42:25   Um and so the idea was you're an important uh professor on the go.

01:42:29   You've got the thinnest laptop anyone has ever seen.

01:42:31   It's a status symbol, but you've also got a full powered computer when you

01:42:35   get back to your desk because you slide it into that.

01:42:37   Needless to say, this trend did not catch on.

01:42:39   But boy, was this amazing technology at the time, totally weird.

01:42:42   And I think it is ample precedent for Apple resurrecting the duo name.

01:42:47   Not quite the same thing, two screens versus a computer that is both a

01:42:51   laptop and a not laptop at the same time.

01:42:53   But I give this name a big thumbs up.

01:42:56   It makes perfect sense.

01:42:56   That has none of the awkwardness of ul ultra.

01:42:58   We're not arguing about, but his cameras aren't as good as the other ones.

01:43:01   How is this the ultra?

01:43:02   It saves the ultra potentially for the all glass 20th anniversary phone.

01:43:06   I don't know what's going on.

01:43:07   Maybe Jaws was out that day and they said he's out sick.

01:43:10   We're just gonna call the duo.

01:43:11   Don't tell him until launch.

01:43:12   Uh but yeah, iPhone Duo.

01:43:14   I approve of the name, even though I just because this name had been

01:43:18   out there forever, but nobody was picking it.

01:43:19   Everyone like, Yeah, duo, they're not gonna do fold because of Samsung, probably.

01:43:23   It's probably just gonna be Ultra because Apple's stupid with names and Apple came

01:43:27   out of nowhere and did a sensible name.

01:43:29   Congratulations.

01:43:30   By the way the PowerBook Duo was the first desktop laptop.

01:43:34   So I think that was I I'm literally using that configuration.

01:43:37   Not quite in the same way you think of it, though.

01:43:39   It's literally it goes inside the desktop.

01:43:44   It was cool to have like an eject, like had an in in like

01:43:46   a motorized inject mechanism, like it would go and like you know you know,

01:43:50   because you'd shove it in, but it you didn't have to like shut like

01:43:52   a it was like soft closed doors kind of.

01:43:54   It was really cool.

01:43:55   Also horrendously expensive if you want to look at the prices and translate from

01:43:58   like 1990, whatever money, just it's terrifying.

01:44:01   Uh $6,200 today.

01:44:03   Woof.

01:44:03   There you go.

01:44:04   Oh, is that just for the laptop or for the Docker box?

01:44:06   Well, it was listed as uh $2,610.

01:44:09   For just the laptop?

01:44:11   I think weren't they sold together?

01:44:12   No.

01:44:13   I don't think so.

01:44:14   Uh-huh.

01:44:14   Okay, forgive me, I'll need more time.

01:44:16   And also don't forget the CRT that's the keyboard and mouse.

01:44:19   Keyboard's 200 bucks in 1990's money.

01:44:21   Alright, I'm not doing all this.

01:44:23   It was expensive.

01:44:24   Suffice to say, a lot of money.

01:44:26   All right.

01:44:26   So Molly and Steve talk about the design.

01:44:29   Uh the physical design is roughly what everyone expected.

01:44:33   It's two cameras.

01:44:34   It's roughly about down to the millimeter.

01:44:37   Okay down to the millimeter, whatever one expected.

01:44:39   Um, but the software design took me by surprise for sure.

01:44:43   Uh there is a right mount dock, both opened and closed.

01:44:48   There's right mount toolbar.

01:44:50   Uh the status indicators for Wi-Fi and cellular are now a circle where in

01:44:56   the inside shows you the Wi-Fi like fan looking thing, and the bottom of

01:44:59   the circle shows the commensurate number of dots to indicate your cellular connection.

01:45:04   Um There's all sorts of oddities with regard to software.

01:45:07   We're going to come back to it in a little bit, but clearly they

01:45:10   did the Apple thing, which I mean complimentary in a complimentary way in this

01:45:14   case, of really asking themselves, do we need things to be the way they

01:45:21   are?

01:45:21   Do we need the dock to be on the bottom?

01:45:23   What if we put it somewhere else?

01:45:24   Do we need to have a separate Wi-Fi indicator and cellular indicator?

01:45:28   Can we combine them?

01:45:30   A lot of this is very, very different.

01:45:32   And uh I no matter how hard we try to paint you a word

01:45:35   picture, I d I think it's best served for you to take a look

01:45:39   at least at this portion of the video or somebody's recap on like YouTube

01:45:42   or TikTok or what have you and see the way the software is on

01:45:46   this phone because it is start starting startlingly different than than just, hey, let's

01:45:51   put iOS on a phone with two screens.

01:45:54   It's way different than that.

01:45:55   And this is all in service of, as they began this part of the

01:45:58   presentation, all of this software stuff that we're going to talk about even more

01:46:01   is in service of making an interface on a phone that is shaped the

01:46:07   way this is.

01:46:07   And so that's why they started with, why did we make it this kind

01:46:11   of squat way?

01:46:12   Why don't other people do where they take two regular looking phones and connect

01:46:15   them side to side and put a hinge on it.

01:46:17   Uh and they explained.

01:46:18   They said we don't do that because that's kind of a waste of space

01:46:21   because the things people might want to do with a big screen, if you

01:46:24   want to watch like letterbox uh, you know, video from a television show or

01:46:27   movie, it's a massive waste of space.

01:46:29   It sometimes can be not much bigger than a phone turn sideways.

01:46:32   So what are you using all the other space for?

01:46:34   And like it just it just doesn't work out size-wise to be, you know,

01:46:37   it is you don't get all the benefits.

01:46:38   So like we started from we want it to be this aspect ratio when

01:46:42   it's then you can use it in portrait and in landscape.

01:46:45   And in both of those modes, you get maximum benefit from having a big

01:46:49   screen because you don't have so such wasted space above and below Letterboxd video.

01:46:53   And in portrait, it's like a little iPad and we know how useful that

01:46:55   form factor is.

01:46:56   So they started from that shape.

01:46:58   And then I they I what I would say the Apple thing they did

01:47:01   was, okay, given that we've decided that this is the shape it's gonna be,

01:47:05   it's gonna be short and squat and weird and it's you know it's gonna

01:47:07   be like this.

01:47:09   Now, what are all the possible ways that we can make an interface on

01:47:14   a thing that folds that is this shape?

01:47:16   And they did all of them.

01:47:17   They're they like what can you think of?

01:47:19   Brainstorm, put it on the whiteboard.

01:47:20   How could we how could this imagine they have like a physical wooden model.

01:47:23   It's just the shape with a hinge like we all had, or the you

01:47:26   know, the people who 3D printed them.

01:47:28   Given this shape, hardware, what can we do with software?

01:47:31   And they just thought of every possible good idea they could and implemented them

01:47:36   all and it's very impressive.

01:47:39   It is so much for developers to do though.

01:47:43   Oh god.

01:47:43   Well a good thing you'll have the f seven years that it took Apple

01:47:46   to develop this for you to update your app.

01:47:47   Oh my God.

01:47:48   So let me just now that we're on this topic, let me just outline

01:47:51   for people what we're talking about here with the reality of app development.

01:47:56   Okay.

01:47:57   All the work that we were talking about with iOS 27 having like a

01:48:01   res a simulator that allows you to resize your app.

01:48:04   That was one part of making your app work on the duo.

01:48:09   That was not the hard part.

01:48:11   That was not the hardest part.

01:48:12   And that was not most of the work.

01:48:15   Because what the duo does is as we're saying, it's it moves critical and

01:48:21   and you know key navigation elements like toolbars and tab bars.

01:48:26   It moves them to be you know vertical first of all.

01:48:31   But not all of them.

01:48:32   But not yeah.

01:48:32   And not all the time.

01:48:33   Right.

01:48:34   It m it makes them vertical much of the time.

01:48:37   On the side of your app, it changes the safe area ratios completely in

01:48:42   addition to the the aspect ratios of the screens, and by the way, there's

01:48:45   lots of different aspect ratios to account for you know resizing of the apps

01:48:49   and in different split views and everything like that.

01:48:52   So critical parts of how apps are built are dramatically restructured.

01:48:58   And it isn't just restructured in one way.

01:49:01   There's like six different modes your app could be in, all of which lay

01:49:06   out the controls differently.

01:49:08   For app developers to even start working on that.

01:49:13   First of all, we we need Xcode 27.1, which doesn't exist yet.

01:49:18   So this phone is coming out in about a month and a half.

01:49:23   And for us to start developing our apps to account for all of its

01:49:28   ridiculous new moves of the interface requires an SDK that Apple says will be

01:49:33   available, quote, later this month.

01:49:35   So we can't even start yet.

01:49:39   And what we will have to do to make our apps use these new

01:49:44   UI paradigms correctly without breaking, let alone to start like being good with them.

01:49:51   I'd say it's six months of work for most apps, maybe a year.

01:49:55   So I think the reality of what the app situation on the duo is

01:50:01   going to be like, first of all, every developer needs to buy one of

01:50:05   these.

01:50:06   And uh and it's a lot of money, so for small developers, that's gonna

01:50:09   be a burden.

01:50:10   I I know that.

01:50:11   I'm not minimizing that, but if you have an iPhone app, you're gonna have

01:50:15   to buy one of these because you're gonna have to test with it.

01:50:17   You're gonna have to handle it.

01:50:18   You're gonna have to see how things are reachable.

01:50:20   And I have a whole thing about that in a second.

01:50:22   But this is something where the simulator is not gonna be enough.

01:50:24   You're gonna you're gonna want the physical device to design your apps on and

01:50:28   test them.

01:50:28   But the amount of work this is.

01:50:31   It isn't like adding another size of iPhone.

01:50:35   It is a way more involved process than that.

01:50:38   You're gonna see a lot of apps that are going to need complete redesigns

01:50:42   to work with this, or to at least take advantage correctly without like weird,

01:50:45   you know, letterboxing and stuff like that.

01:50:47   You're gonna see a lot of that.

01:50:49   And so the reality of owning this phone for the first year is gonna

01:50:53   be most of your apps are not gonna be updated for this for months.

01:50:56   Uh I would say maybe by next summer y you know, y that might

01:51:02   be finally like everything will kind of look and work correctly.

01:51:05   Uh but it's gonna be a while.

01:51:08   And for app developers, this is just

01:51:12   i you know, yes, it's exciting as Apple fans, but to have this level

01:51:17   of change and to have less than a month and a half to do

01:51:22   it and to not even give us the tools to do it on day

01:51:25   one, that's a real slap in the face.

01:51:28   Like, and I'm I'm I'm excited about the hardware in most ways, except for

01:51:31   one really giant one.

01:51:32   I'm excited about the hardware in most ways.

01:51:34   However, as a developer, this is a huge middle finger to us.

01:51:39   Like they could not have prepared us less well for this and given us

01:51:44   less time.

01:51:45   Yep.

01:51:45   I I I wanna reiterate or or you know, double I don't think double

01:51:49   down on um using that right.

01:51:50   But nevertheless, I want to double down, so to speak, on what Marco just

01:51:53   said, you know, uh we don't even have access to the current simulator.

01:51:58   I know Marco said that a minute ago.

01:52:00   I want to reiterate that.

01:52:01   They haven't released the version of Xcode that has a simulator for the iPhone

01:52:05   Duo.

01:52:06   And they've said it's coming later this month.

01:52:09   Now, admittedly, that could be by the time this very episode is released, but

01:52:13   realistically Right.

01:52:14   Technically it could be tomorrow.

01:52:15   But probably won't be realistically.

01:52:16   Though probably not for at least a week or two.

01:52:18   And we only have what, like six weeks until this thing is in people's

01:52:22   hands.

01:52:22   This is a real raw deal for app developers, and that is a real

01:52:28   bummer.

01:52:28   And my ask of all of you who are listening to the show, if

01:52:32   you're even considering buying an iPhone duo, or perhaps have people in your life

01:52:35   who are buying an iPhone duo, I beg of you to give grace to

01:52:39   especially teams of, I don't know, one uh that not only need to spend

01:52:45   two to three thousand dollars on this phone, but then need to spend days

01:52:49   to months to weeks to you know or days to weeks to months to

01:52:52   get it working right.

01:52:53   I know I I'm just said, but I I cannot stress enough.

01:52:56   I agree with him wholeheartedly.

01:52:57   This is a lot.

01:52:58   It's not just two screens, it's several different layouts in several different configurations.

01:53:04   You also well, so one of the cool things that the software does now

01:53:07   I'm jumping ahead, but one of the cool things the software does is it

01:53:09   lays lets you know or lets developers know what the state of the hinge

01:53:13   is in such a way that you can react to the fact that the

01:53:16   phone is slightly closed, but not fully closed.

01:53:19   The idea here is you move some of the important things out of the

01:53:22   crease area because that's going to be harder to touch.

01:53:25   So that's a different mode.

01:53:27   Uh John, I think you put in the show notes a tweet from or

01:53:30   a toot from Rafa that that indicates some of these, and we'll put that

01:53:33   in the show notes.

01:53:34   There's a lot here.

01:53:36   There's a lot here.

01:53:37   And it this is not just, oh, it's your iPad app, but smallish.

01:53:41   No.

01:53:42   No, no, no, no, no.

01:53:43   It's way, way more than that.

01:53:46   And this is going to take a lot of time and we are all

01:53:48   going to get bombarded with one star reviews and it's gonna suck.

01:53:51   Yeah.

01:53:51   Cause also keep in mind, like again, this isn't just new screen sizes.

01:53:55   Because it changes how controls are laid out, because it ch it dramatically changes

01:54:00   safe areas, which is you know, so the the for the for most of

01:54:04   iPhone recent history, there's been safe areas around the top and around the bottom.

01:54:09   The one on the bottom is around the home indicator, around the top it's

01:54:11   around the the island.

01:54:12   And the idea of the safe area is it's it's like a layout guide

01:54:15   that tells your app you can you can render like background and scrolling content

01:54:18   behind these, but don't controls behind them.

01:54:20   And they're and you know, Swift UI and AppKit or an UI kit, you

01:54:24   know, they they inset the controls to stay away from the safe areas.

01:54:27   Well now there are safe areas on the left and right, sometimes.

01:54:31   And and so what's going to what what the reality of app app development

01:54:36   and app usage for the next year.

01:54:38   It's gonna be similar to when the iPhone 10 first came out and introduced

01:54:42   that safe area around the home indicator on the bottom, where for the for

01:54:47   like two years after the iPhone 10 came out, they were There were frequently

01:54:51   still bugs in apps where some control would end up laying itself out under

01:54:56   the home indicator.

01:54:57   And as a user, like you were just you had to like very carefully

01:55:01   try to tap around it or you would might have just restart the app,

01:55:04   you know, to get it to work right.

01:55:06   It's gonna be another two years of that, but with stuff on the r

01:55:09   on the left and right, because so many app developers have never considered the

01:55:13   possibility of a left and right safe area, even though it's in the API

01:55:17   the whole time, but not The the safe areas were always zero on the

01:55:20   left and right.

01:55:21   So there's probably a lot of app bugs that are going to result from

01:55:24   this all of a sudden being a thing that the apps have to have

01:55:27   to lay out their UIs around.

01:55:29   So the the type of work this is, it's a huge amount of work.

01:55:33   It's also gonna be just months of bugs in apps and months of broken

01:55:39   or non-ideal layouts.

01:55:41   It's gonna be a ton of work.

01:55:44   And so again, like going into this phone, I do think this is potentially

01:55:47   very interesting, but it's gonna be very much like a beta for a while.

01:55:52   And by the way, iOS itself probably will also have a lot of those

01:55:57   bugs because that's what it does too.

01:55:58   Like Like whenever Apple does new stuff with the safe areas, lots of their

01:56:02   own apps also have these bugs.

01:56:04   So I would totally expect similar levels of bugginess with the built-in system controls

01:56:09   and system apps as well.

01:56:10   Apple's not immune to this problem.

01:56:12   So it's gonna be a beta.

01:56:14   Like treat this phone like a beta for at least the first few months,

01:56:17   uh which it might be that that long be that long before you can

01:56:20   get one because of the rumors of it being very low production and it's

01:56:24   probably it's probably gonna be very hard to get.

01:56:26   But um anyway, before I move on from the uh fundamental design of this

01:56:30   thing.

01:56:31   So it is touch ID, not face ID.

01:56:33   Uh Touch ID is in the the the slide the side button, like the

01:56:36   sleepwake button in in that area on the right side.

01:56:39   Um they they were careful to point out that you can enroll multiple fingers

01:56:43   and also you can unlock with your watch, which yes, you've been able to

01:56:46   unlock your phone with your watch for a long time.

01:56:47   They're obviously trying to remind people, hey, Touch ID is not that bad.

01:56:51   Remember, oh we we uh we made it a little bit less bad with

01:56:54   all these other things.

01:56:55   Anyway, um we'll see how that proves to be.

01:56:59   The one thing that I am concerned about with this with using this phone,

01:57:04   because I am I am gonna get one so that I can develop with

01:57:06   it and I'm gonna try to live with it for a few weeks at

01:57:08   least, but I hold my phone in my left hand and I keep my

01:57:12   phone in my left pocket.

01:57:14   This phone looks like it is very badly designed for holding it left-handed.

01:57:20   The touch ID button is going to be in the wrong spot.

01:57:22   I guess I'll enroll like my index finger on my left hand, but that's

01:57:26   one problem.

01:57:27   But the entire UI is made to be used with your right thumb holding

01:57:34   the phone in your right hand.

01:57:35   It's a shame they can't do the Apple Watch flip over, you know what

01:57:38   I mean.

01:57:39   If you could ho maybe you could hold the entire photography, but then the

01:57:42   then the touch ID buttons in the wrong spot.

01:57:43   Like it Yeah, I know.

01:57:44   But like like uh I mean you also have the problem of the uh

01:57:46   the the camera sensors and live activity and blah blah blah.

01:57:49   But like it's they're they're almost close to being able to pull an Apple

01:57:52   watch and say, just use it lefty.

01:57:53   Yeah, but like I I think if you are a left hand phone user,

01:57:58   I think this is gonna possibly be terrible, but we'll see.

01:58:02   I I I hope they thought of that or have some kind of you

01:58:05   know maybe it's not as bad as I think, but like when I I

01:58:08   have my little 3D printed mock-up of it here from months ago and like

01:58:11   if I when I'm holding the three three D printed mock up in my

01:58:14   left hand, my thumb cannot reach those side buttons on the right.

01:58:17   Like it just it's not gonna reach.

01:58:19   So I don't know.

01:58:20   This this could be really bad.

01:58:21   You gotta come around the other side like uh like you're going around the

01:58:24   neck of a guitar and use like your pointer finger to get at those.

01:58:28   Uh yeah, no, f for lefties this could be rough.

01:58:30   And I wonder if there'll be some sort of software toggle to move the

01:58:34   like navigation bar and all that stuff that's currently on the right hand side

01:58:37   to the lefty.

01:58:38   Yeah, but then you're gonna break my layouts that way too.

01:58:40   No actually it already does that for if you have um if you have

01:58:43   it open and you have a left right split and you have a le

01:58:46   one app one app on the left, one app on the right, then the

01:58:49   app on the left gets its navigation stuff put on the left.

01:58:51   Oh there you go yeah the question is whether it'll do that when it's

01:58:54   well they might have not shown everything.

01:58:55   Although speaking of like this being abated and everything, given my many, many years

01:59:00   experience with plain old iPhone and before that iPod touch rectangles and their ability

01:59:06   to relay out the screen when I rotate to to from between landscape and

01:59:10   portrait and various apps and how buggy that has been for the entire decade

01:59:15   of the iPhone.

01:59:17   I look at this and I'm like, oh man, this is like that times

01:59:20   a thousand.

01:59:21   Because it's not rectangle rotating vertical to horizontal.

01:59:24   It's like, all right, what angle is it at?

01:59:26   How open is the hinge?

01:59:28   Is it one app or two?

01:59:30   Like I sh I can I'm looking every demo they gave looked beautiful and

01:59:34   perfect with all their built in apps and it's like they call them poses.

01:59:37   Here's all the different poses this device can be in.

01:59:39   It can be portrait or landscape or closed or closed landscape or closed portrait

01:59:44   or half open portrait or half open landscape or like it's like wow.

01:59:47   There's a lot of poses and they would transition between all of them.

01:59:50   Look how smoothly we transition between all these.

01:59:52   Starting from like the cool effect where when you open it up, it makes

01:59:55   it look like the top is transparent and you're looking through to the thing,

01:59:57   all the way down to like rotate it and bend the hinge and put

02:00:00   it in landscape.

02:00:01   And everything was beautiful in these in these videos, which I assume had simulated

02:00:04   images on the screen, but I couldn't really tell because I've heard that the

02:00:07   screen is actually kind of matte finish, so maybe it was real.

02:00:09   But anyway, wow, that's a lot of opportunities for like, oh, you know, when

02:00:13   you rotate the phone, like, oh, it didn't, or some half part of the

02:00:16   UI rotated and some other part didn't and it's like, or you ever see

02:00:19   it like you're trying to watch a video and the video will be poking

02:00:22   out of the side because it's not rotating.

02:00:24   Like, if we can't get basic rotation right at this point, how is anything,

02:00:28   including Apple's apps, going to be as perfect as it was in this video?

02:00:31   Like the ideas are all great, but I'm really, really worried about just the

02:00:36   basics of implementation involving not just accelerometers, but now also hinge sensors and all

02:00:42   of that working together with the app.

02:00:44   So we'll see.

02:00:44   Like the the video made it look beautiful and perfect, but I know from

02:00:49   experience with regular phones that it's not going to be the case.

02:00:52   And this is just with Apple's built-in apps, which have had the most time

02:00:54   possible to get it right.

02:00:56   Uh that was one of the questions everybody had is like, what will your

02:00:59   app look like if you don't update it to understand the iPhone Duo?

02:01:04   And Apple has videos for that.

02:01:06   We'll link to Apple's.

02:01:07   They gave like a developer playlist of like six WWC style sessions to tell

02:01:10   you what stuff that you need to know about the phone.

02:01:12   And in that, You'll see screens that says, Hey, if your app is built

02:01:16   uh it was built using something before the iOS 27 SDK, guess what?

02:01:21   It's going to look like just a phone app, like a vertical rectangle, shoved

02:01:26   right in the middle of this crease when you have the thing open which

02:01:28   is like the worst possible place for it.

02:01:30   I mean I guess granted you probably won't bend it, but like and then

02:01:33   when you have it closed, yeah, that whole right side where all the tool

02:01:36   bars will be, that's empty.

02:01:37   Like basically your phone app is just a ph if you built with the

02:01:40   iOS 27 SDK, your phone app is still just a phone app, but when

02:01:44   you have the thing fully open, it's more like a wide phone app.

02:01:46   And that's the only thing we could do with the simulator that we had,

02:01:49   like now, like the IO the the Xcode 27 simulator.

02:01:52   You could try your app wide and not wide, wide and not wide.

02:01:55   All of those is not how you want your app to look.

02:01:57   It's going to be disappointing to you.

02:01:59   But more importantly, someone who just spent two grand or more on a phone,

02:02:02   it's going to be disappointing to them because they're like, I spent two grand

02:02:05   on this phone and when I open up the screen, all I do is

02:02:07   I see a light up a set of pixels.

02:02:09   That's like the same size or smaller than my old phone screen sitting in

02:02:12   the middle of a sea of blackness.

02:02:14   And they don't it's because that app hasn't been updated yet or whatever, but

02:02:17   it it'll be really disappointing because it's like, What what benefit am I getting

02:02:21   out of this two thousand dollar phone?

02:02:22   In fact it's worse than a regular phone because it's shorter.

02:02:25   And I have fewer pixels lit up, and there's this giant waste of space

02:02:28   around it.

02:02:28   So this is, I mean, it's developers and like, oh, you have to update

02:02:32   my app and people will be mad at your apps or whatever.

02:02:34   But mostly it's Apple because customers are going to be disappointed if they get

02:02:39   this expensive thing and like the only apps that look decent are Apple's built

02:02:43   in ones for a pretty long time.

02:02:46   Yeah.

02:02:47   That all being said, and I think all three of us, myself included, are

02:02:50   being kind of, you know, m uh uh downers at the moment, but the

02:02:55   hardware does look extremely cool.

02:02:57   I'm still unconvinced I would want this as a full-time daily phone, although th

02:03:01   currently that's probably my plan, at least for a little while, to live with

02:03:05   it and see how it feels.

02:03:07   But the hardware seems to be very slick.

02:03:09   Um, they talked about how they have a variable torque hinge.

02:03:12   Uh when it's open, it is the thinnest iPhone ever.

02:03:16   Uh they made brief mention of something being in the camera plateau just like

02:03:20   the iPhone Air, and then later they were showing like mocked up internals of

02:03:24   the phone and it looked like the CPU was kind of dead center.

02:03:27   So I'm not entirely sure which one of these is real or maybe I

02:03:30   misunderstood.

02:03:30   Oh I you skipped over the FaceTime camera and I want to give a

02:03:33   comment.

02:03:33   Oh sorry, yes.

02:03:34   The FaceTime camera is under the screen, as the rumor said.

02:03:37   Um and later in the video they showed how it's underscreen, but b uh

02:03:40   if they showed like, oh here's what it looks like.

02:03:41   Actually we leave out like a whole bunch of the the the sub pixels,

02:03:45   you know instead of having RGB, RGB, or whatever pattern that they have, they

02:03:48   leave out a bunch of them, basically making it like a like a window

02:03:51   screen so that more light can get through to the camera.

02:03:54   Uh earlier in the video, when they were showing, I guess it must have

02:03:58   been not simulated image.

02:03:59   I guess it must have been must have been the real image on the

02:04:01   phone.

02:04:01   And they were showing images of the the iPhone duo and unfolded mode or

02:04:05   whatever.

02:04:06   Uh I thought like, wow, this what a weird uh you know mistake for

02:04:11   Apple.

02:04:12   Usually so careful they had dust on their sensor when they took this video.

02:04:16   Cause there was cause there was a little telltale, slightly darker circular region, which

02:04:21   is what it looks like when you have dust on your camera sensor.

02:04:24   Uh but and then I was like, maybe it's not dust on the sensor

02:04:27   of Apple's, maybe it's a smudge on my Pro Display XDR, which I never

02:04:30   touch.

02:04:30   I'm like, How is that possible?

02:04:32   Did someone come into my house and touch my screen?

02:04:34   But then they scroll the worst crime someone can commit against you.

02:04:37   Yeah.

02:04:37   Yeah.

02:04:38   It is, it would be terrible.

02:04:39   But then they like scrolled the iPhone off the screen like take all the

02:04:42   valuables, just don't do that.

02:04:43   Like like the iPhone, like the iPhone that they were showing a picture of,

02:04:47   like lifted up and like they they they basically they moved the camera so

02:04:50   it was pointing down.

02:04:50   And when that happened, the smudge moved with the phone.

02:04:55   I'm like, that wasn't dust on the sensor.

02:04:57   And that's not a smudge on my screen.

02:04:59   Because in both of those cases it shouldn't have moved.

02:05:01   Dust on the sensor should move and smudge on my screen shouldn't the iPhone

02:05:04   moves in the in the frame.

02:05:06   What that was was the clearly visible circular section of the screen that the

02:05:11   face ID camera is behind.

02:05:14   And if I could pick it up in Apple's video, I have to think

02:05:18   that's gonna be visible to the naked eye looking at this phone.

02:05:21   Which is pretty disappointing.

02:05:23   Like the whole point of putting it under the screen is I don't want

02:05:25   some portion of the screen that I can't use and also I don't want

02:05:28   to like see it's like it's invisible, it's be it's gone.

02:05:30   I guess you can still use that portion of the screen, but if if

02:05:33   that portion of the screen is essentially a dimmer circle because it's it literally

02:05:37   has fewer light up pixels in that area than the rest of the screen.

02:05:41   That is another disappointing technical limitation of how they chose to do this phone.

02:05:45   I'd almost rather have just the plain old like dynamic island cutout thing just

02:05:49   make that bigger because at least that's an honest like look, we had to

02:05:52   make this so that the camera could see out of it.

02:05:54   But instead they did this underscreen thing.

02:05:56   And in the video, in Apple's own video, it's not look good.

02:06:00   So I'm a little worried about that.

02:06:01   I mean I think the r the reality is like you know you you're

02:06:04   gonna see the the cr the crease after a while too.

02:06:07   Like You didn't see the crease in the video.

02:06:09   You didn't but like you know, most of the hands on videos so far

02:06:12   have basically said like yeah you do kinda see it.

02:06:15   Um and you know we don't know how this is going to age over

02:06:18   time.

02:06:18   Like you'll you'll probably see it more over time.

02:06:21   So I I think the reality of using this kind of device is like

02:06:26   you're not gonna have a perfect uninterrupted span of screen.

02:06:30   And you don't already with today's phones.

02:06:31   Like you know, you have the cutouts for the camera and the dynamic island

02:06:34   islands of link.

02:06:35   It's fine.

02:06:37   You kind of you get used to it, you stop seeing it.

02:06:39   That's probably gonna happen here too.

02:06:41   It you know, you will eventually notice the crease if you don't notice it

02:06:44   on day one, like you'll notice the crease, you'll notice the the dim little

02:06:47   circle where the camera's under the screen and you'll notice it for a day

02:06:51   and then you'll stop noticing it.

02:06:52   It'll be fine.

02:06:53   Well the thing is with the with the dynamic island, I don't live activity

02:06:57   around it.

02:06:58   But with the thing under the screen, there could be content under that.

02:07:01   And so I'm forced to look at it to read the content or to

02:07:04   watch the thing that's over there and now I'm forced to see that stupid

02:07:06   smudge.

02:07:06   I don't know.

02:07:07   Well we'll see how it looks in person.

02:07:08   John, this is the liquid glass era.

02:07:09   There could be content under everything.

02:07:10   There usually is.

02:07:11   It's f it's but but we're spotlighting your content.

02:07:15   Our controls float over your content, but like be careful, don't put your stuff

02:07:18   under there because you won't be able to get to it.

02:07:20   But you can see it sort of, but it's blurry, but uh it's like

02:07:22   it's just not a great idea.

02:07:23   Although I I also will point out that like, you know, we always talk

02:07:25   about the um signals Apple sends to developers about upcoming changes and obviously when

02:07:30   they have the simulator and the touch stuff and we're like, you know, uh

02:07:33   well the touch stuff for touch max.

02:07:34   But anyway, the simulator being wider for wider phones, and we're like, Yeah, that's

02:07:37   for the that's for the um the foldable phone obviously, and we were right,

02:07:41   although there was much more to it than that, as we already said.

02:07:43   Uh but one of the other things that is so clearly for the foldable

02:07:47   phone that I don't think a lot of people clocked, but that people have

02:07:49   been complaining about for at least a year now, maybe more, I forget when

02:07:52   they started doing this, was The new uh like toolbar arrangement where you don't

02:07:57   get to pick where the your toolbar items are.

02:07:59   You just get to say like this is the primary one and this is

02:08:02   the tertiary, second from left, second most important third cousin one, and you're like

02:08:06   you give them all these semantic names and it's like, why don't you let

02:08:10   me lay them out?

02:08:11   This is the first one, the second one, the third one, the fourth one.

02:08:13   And when the overflow just give me an overflow menu, and Apple's like, no,

02:08:16   just tell us the role they provide.

02:08:18   And that was 100% for this stupid phone, because what they do is they

02:08:22   take your toolbar and they say, okay, your primary and secondary are gonna be

02:08:25   here.

02:08:26   Unless your primary is a wide button, then that's gonna be on the top,

02:08:28   in which case you're gonna have your primary and tertiary and third cousin on

02:08:31   the right.

02:08:32   Like they split up the things in your toolbars according to their roles and

02:08:37   put them where they think they should go.

02:08:38   Sometimes they're top, sometimes on their side, sometimes they're top of the side, sometimes

02:08:41   they're the bottom of the side, sometimes they're on the left, sometimes they're on

02:08:43   the right.

02:08:44   And if you had a toolbar API that said, tell me what goes in

02:08:47   in position one, two, three, and four this would never work.

02:08:50   So those semantic positions that have been driving developers uh up the wall for

02:08:55   such a long time is like, I don't have enough control over my toolbar,

02:08:58   just tell me where things should go.

02:08:59   Apple should have said, you're gonna have even less control of your toolbar pretty

02:09:02   soon, so get used to it.

02:09:04   Oh, and if you did a custom toolbar, good luck.

02:09:08   I mean, honestly, this is this is part of why I'm I'm dreading all

02:09:11   the work that I have to do now, because I have done a lot

02:09:14   of custom work here and there.

02:09:16   Like because when i i this is this is the the a story as

02:09:19   old as Apple development time, uh that like Apple gives you these stock widgets

02:09:25   and controls and everything that work as long as you're making like, you know,

02:09:30   the ice cream stand WBC developer sample app.

02:09:33   And then the moment it interacts with the real world, you're like, oh well,

02:09:37   hmm, it doesn't really fit this need I have or this use case or

02:09:40   this condition in the real world.

02:09:42   So I have to start doing a little bit of customization or workarounds or

02:09:47   something or reimplementations of certain things.

02:09:50   And then Apple goes and does something like this and it breaks all of

02:09:53   that.

02:09:53   Like this is just the cycle of Apple development.

02:09:55   But the reality is that you do often have to do that kind of

02:09:59   stuff to make a good app.

02:10:01   So this constant cycle always exists.

02:10:04   Like one of the one thing about about this current you know, what I'm

02:10:08   seeing here, like we've been hearing for a while in the iOS stuff styles

02:10:11   have been for a while.

02:10:12   Pull stuff away from the edges.

02:10:14   Why?

02:10:16   Okay, well, n for a while we thought the reason was they were gonna

02:10:19   do that rumored twentieth anniversary phone that that was like all glass curving around

02:10:23   the screen would curve around the edges.

02:10:24   And they still are.

02:10:25   And they yeah they might still be doing that, we'll see.

02:10:27   But um we thought it was for that.

02:10:29   It's also for this because now they're saying, Oh, we're gonna put controls on

02:10:32   the left and right edges.

02:10:33   So therefore you can't have UI that goes all the way to the edge

02:10:36   because it won't look right or it'll it'll go under the controls or it'll

02:10:39   get cut off or weirdly.

02:10:40   So but at the same time now we have to we have to design

02:10:44   our UIs to pull everything in from the edges.

02:10:46   Except to do that requires the whole UI to be narrower and to waste

02:10:52   space on the left and right that we weren't wasting before, which means when

02:10:56   you render one of those on display Zoom on an on a smaller phone,

02:11:01   it's not gonna fit.

02:11:03   So it's gonna be very difficult for us to develop and design the same

02:11:06   UI to work on, say, an iPhone 13 mini or an iPhone SE with

02:11:12   display zoom on to have that same UI fit and work on a modern

02:11:18   iPhone Duo that you have to pull everything away from the edges.

02:11:20   I mean that's what they're trying to do with those flexible toolbars and stuff

02:11:23   like they tried to show it is like look basically the the place you're

02:11:26   gonna get to draw is going to be similar to a traditional iPhone proportion.

02:11:29   It's just that all your toolbars that you used to have on the top

02:11:32   and bottom we've chucked to the four winds to the sides but some items

02:11:35   are still on the top.

02:11:36   Like it's they're like look if you just used our standard controls and you

02:11:39   didn't try to do anything custom and you did it just the way we

02:11:41   did it, your app's actual content should still roughly be phone proportion.

02:11:47   It's just that phone proportion thing is gonna be that rectangle is gonna be

02:11:51   moved all over the place and all the things that you had on top

02:11:53   and bottom are now gonna be squirming all around the sides of your phone.

02:11:56   But you don't have to worry about that because if you follow their APIs

02:11:58   and use standard controls, that'll all be taken care of.

02:12:00   But like you said, Marco, nobody is only using or most most app developers

02:12:04   are not only using standard controls in the standard way with no customization, because

02:12:08   that would be a very boring app.

02:12:09   No, and in fact Apple discourages that.

02:12:11   Like what wins ADAs?

02:12:14   It's nothing that has like really blo you know bogstandard controls.

02:12:18   It's all h rich custom designs.

02:12:20   So like Apple encourages developers to go custom and to make very, you know,

02:12:26   very, you know, elaborate custom rich design.

02:12:29   That's what I was saying.

02:12:30   Like Apple encourages this.

02:12:31   They they push for it and the market rewards it.

02:12:35   And so i for them to keep to keep saying, like, oh well, if

02:12:38   you use standard controls, you get all these behaviors for free, but don't use

02:12:41   standard controls that much.

02:12:42   Like it you know, it does create this this friction.

02:12:45   But anyway, um it's gonna be so much work.

02:12:48   And I'm sure we'll get to a place where it's where it's good eventually,

02:12:51   but it's it's a lot of work to do in a very short time.

02:12:54   Yeah.

02:12:54   I mean, like we did with the iPhone 1.

02:12:56   There was a long time where there was like non-iPhone 10 savvy apps and

02:12:59   it's some of those stragglers or whatever, but we eventually did get over the

02:13:02   hump.

02:13:02   So I just I do want to give lots of credit for the very

02:13:05   thoughtful, really good software designed to fit this hardware.

02:13:09   I don't know if the hardware is any good.

02:13:11   I don't know this is the right shape per phone.

02:13:12   I don't know if it's carry.

02:13:14   People like it, blah, blah, blah.

02:13:15   But but again, starting from the premise that the phone is this shape and

02:13:17   has a hinge here, amazing job on the software.

02:13:21   Just really clever thoughtful, and like I said, they did everything.

02:13:24   Like when I saw them turning it upside down like a little tent and

02:13:27   it turns into an alarm clock, I'm like okay, now you're just showing off.

02:13:29   Like they're just I mean, we haven't we should continue on because there's so

02:13:32   many cool things they do with this software wise with their own apps to

02:13:35   show like the things that move.

02:13:37   Uh they did a lot uh with the software like you were saying they

02:13:42   specifically said they took advantage of liquid glass in order to make this work

02:13:45   um they uh like i said have the status bar basically is a circular

02:13:49   widget in the corner Um you can have two so home screen pages at

02:13:53   once side by side.

02:13:54   You can have two apps side by side.

02:13:55   If you tap the little knuckle handle, whatever you call it, thing in the

02:13:58   center between the two apps, you can link them together as one unit, even

02:14:02   if it's two different apps.

02:14:03   Um Jaws eventually came up in the dark as always and said that the

02:14:07   the interior display is a 7.6-inch super retina XDR display, 50% larger than the

02:14:14   Pro Max and 80% larger over the Pro.

02:14:17   The outer display is 5.4 inches, which is 90% of the uh pixels of

02:14:23   the iPhone 18 Pro.

02:14:25   They said that later this year it will work with the Apple pencil with

02:14:29   USB-C.

02:14:30   BC.

02:14:31   So I have a a second gen Apple Pencil Pro, the one that only

02:14:36   ever charges via magnets on my iPad Pro.

02:14:39   That will not work with this, I don't think, but rather the uh one

02:14:43   that you can plug in via USB-C by I think it's like a little

02:14:47   section near the top that you kind of open up.

02:14:49   I I've never actually had one.

02:14:50   Um that will later this year work with either display interior or exterior, which

02:14:55   is kind of cool.

02:14:56   Yeah.

02:14:56   That is really like finally an an iPhone sort of an iPhone with Apple

02:15:01   Pencil support.

02:15:02   That's really cool.

02:15:03   If you see a stylist, they blew it.

02:15:05   Yeah.

02:15:05   Yeah, right.

02:15:06   This excites me.

02:15:07   Like I cause I again, like I I love the idea of the Apple

02:15:10   Pencil and I love using it sometimes.

02:15:12   I just am not really an iPad person.

02:15:13   I I almost never have an iPad with me.

02:15:16   Um so this is very promising.

02:15:17   Also, this type of pencil, the USB-C one, um, I most people don't know.

02:15:22   There's an there's an entire world of very inexpensive Apple pencil compatible pencils from

02:15:29   other brands that like that work exactly the same now as the Apple Pencil

02:15:34   like natively with every modern iPad and they cost like 25 bucks.

02:15:38   Like they're they're way cheaper than Apple's.

02:15:40   They're all over Amazon.

02:15:41   There's a bunch of different brands that make them.

02:15:42   And so if this works the same way, which I it probably does, um,

02:15:47   because they're all USB C and you you plug 'em in to sync them

02:15:49   and then then that's it.

02:15:50   They synced, they're done.

02:15:52   Then this will probably work just fine with those two, which means there will

02:15:57   be a rich third party ecosystem of like little stubby pencils that will work

02:16:02   with the duo.

02:16:03   That'll be great.

02:16:04   Uh so I I think this this could be very exciting.

02:16:06   Um for lots of lots of different use cases for the for the pencil.

02:16:10   That this could be this could be wonderful.

02:16:12   So uh one of the things they mentioned when they went over the screens

02:16:15   uh and like their construction and all the different layers and how they fold

02:16:19   and how they're fighting the crease and blah blah blah was they talked about

02:16:21   the very top layer, uh, which

02:16:25   I forget what they described as some kind of polymer material, blah, blah, but

02:16:28   basically the top layer that that you touch with your finger is plastic.

02:16:32   Some special exotic kind of plastic, but plastic.

02:16:35   Uh not glass.

02:16:36   Uh even though other layers of the thing of the sandwich may be glass.

02:16:39   And that is relevant to the stylus because presumably they picked a plastic that

02:16:44   is harder than the tips on their own stylus or whatever but I but

02:16:48   if you're looking for a way to potentially mar your screen, using a stylus

02:16:53   with force on it, especially around the crease area, is probably a strong candidate.

02:16:57   So I do wonder how that's gonna work out.

02:16:59   Um that's also one of the reasons that maybe um I I don't know

02:17:02   if it's one of the reasons, but it makes sense to me that this

02:17:04   screen would be have a kind of a matte finish to it, kind of

02:17:07   like the paper like covers that they have for iPads or the nanotexture iPad,

02:17:10   and that if you are going to draw on it with a pencil, it's

02:17:13   not as much fun to have a slick glass thing with a smooth plastic

02:17:16   thing sliding over it.

02:17:17   And so yeah, this is nanotextured plastic, laser etched nanotextured plastic that hopefully your

02:17:24   stylist won't mar up.

02:17:26   Yep.

02:17:27   They have speakers on the top and the bottom.

02:17:29   Like we said, no face ID, but touch ID, which bums me out.

02:17:33   I get it, but it bums me out.

02:17:35   The colors are star white and night sky.

02:17:39   They talked a lot about how it's very robust, very stiff, uh, that they

02:17:43   have a million layers on the display on the interior.

02:17:46   Uh there's ceramic shield on the back and ceramic shield two on the front.

02:17:51   It's also IP sixty-eight rated for dust and water resistance, which is a maximum

02:17:56   depth of six meters for up to thirty minutes, uh, which is the same

02:18:00   as the iPhone 18 Pro.

02:18:01   This is a I think a pretty vast improvement from all the Android ones,

02:18:04   which are not at all this robust.

02:18:06   I found this shocking because as we all know with the foldable phones, or

02:18:09   maybe you don't if you haven't thought about it, there's a region of the

02:18:12   screen that is in the middle at the crease that is not like affixed

02:18:16   permanently to something because it has to bend and and it can't crease, you

02:18:19   know, the fold the phone folds completely shut.

02:18:22   But you can't have a crease like that bends on itself to that degree

02:18:25   with the screen.

02:18:26   You need some kind of curve radius and so the phone always has the

02:18:29   the the hinge always has a place for the screen to go so it

02:18:32   can curve more gently and not snap in half or break, which means there's

02:18:36   an air gap for the screen to go into.

02:18:39   And how do you water seal something that has an air gap?

02:18:42   Well there must be a part where the screen joins the rest of the

02:18:45   phone and becomes affixed to it again and that has to be water sealed

02:18:49   that crease and same thing on the other, and that has to be sealed,

02:18:51   and the hinge itself has to be sealed.

02:18:53   And obviously, sealing up the parts where like the batteries and the SOCs are,

02:18:56   they know how to do that.

02:18:56   It's like a phone, but that screen interface to the rest of it.

02:18:59   I'm amazed that they were able to pull this off, and it makes me

02:19:02   even more angry that all their laptops die if you put a tiny bit

02:19:05   of water on them, Casey.

02:19:06   But like the the fact that this has and I looked it up the

02:19:10   thing.

02:19:10   Like according to their spec pages, this has the same waterproofness as an iPhone

02:19:14   18 Pro, which is amazing for a full folding phone.

02:19:16   So I hope someone YouTube but both tries out uh if they can scratch

02:19:20   the screen with an Apple pencil and also puts this thing in a cup

02:19:23   of water and see how that does.

02:19:24   I mean I believe them, but it's like a a another amazing technical feat.

02:19:27   And like I said last time when we were talking about the iPhone Air

02:19:29   exit interview, I also imagine that using what they learned from the air, that

02:19:33   this thing is incredibly stiff and incredibly sturdy, but you can bet, even though

02:19:37   I'm buying one of these, that I will go to the Apple store as

02:19:40   soon as they have them and play with it extensively.

02:19:42   You should buy one, but I know I'll convince you.

02:19:44   No, never.

02:19:45   Never.

02:19:46   This is your job, John.

02:19:47   It's not my job to buy everything that Apple releases.

02:19:50   That's not the job of a critic.

02:19:51   The job of a critic is not to buy everything that Apple releases.

02:19:53   Don't Casey, don't worry.

02:19:55   The job John's job is to buy the things we don't buy.

02:19:58   I guess.

02:19:58   Uh I mean, well, I I there's a million places I can go go

02:20:02   from here, but I will walk away.

02:20:03   Uh hey, so Craig came up and uh he had a bunch of things

02:20:07   to say, including that there is a new minimalist wallpaper view on the lock

02:20:10   screen where basically everything gets out of the way and you just see a

02:20:12   giant wallpaper.

02:20:14   Um, you can do two-up split view multitasking, like I was saying.

02:20:18   You can also launch a second window of the same app if supported.

02:20:20   The example they gave is two Safari windows.

02:20:23   Uh, like I said earlier, you can tap on the divider to pair apps

02:20:26   for a kind of spaces like experience.

02:20:28   Uh you can pin a video to the top while multitasking.

02:20:32   Hand to God, I'm not kidding.

02:20:33   This looks so hot because there's so many times I want to do two

02:20:37   things at once.

02:20:37   And one of them is just have a video, not literally in the background

02:20:40   but figuratively in the background.

02:20:42   And this lets you pin the video to the top and you still have

02:20:45   plenty of space down below.

02:20:47   Genuinely excited for this.

02:20:48   Um we had talked about earlier you can use in very di uh various

02:20:52   different orientations or what they call poses you could do a tent you can

02:20:55   do an L including with a video in the like vertical portion of the

02:20:59   L or this the L being like a laptop if you will uh the

02:21:02   a video on the quote unquote laptop screen and the controls where the keyboard

02:21:06   would be uh they were very excited about Netflix, which gave a demo of

02:21:10   their edits to their app that supports this.

02:21:12   Yeah, Netflix will won't do anything for the Vision Pro, but make a foldable

02:21:15   phone and Netflix is there.

02:21:17   Indeed.

02:21:18   Uh speakers will react to the position of the hinge to try to make

02:21:21   things sound right, including when things are uh partially folded.

02:21:25   Um iOS, like I said earlier, will try to move junk away from the

02:21:28   crease wherever possible.

02:21:29   Uh you can do standby even when you're not charging.

02:21:32   If standby is when you put your phone in in a landscape position, but

02:21:36   it only turns on when the phone is charging.

02:21:38   In this case, you can do standby even when it's not charging, when it's

02:21:41   like tent mode, if you will.

02:21:43   Uh this makes for a very good bedside clock, including they made brief mention

02:21:46   but I don't think they showed it, of wake up with a gentle glow.

02:21:50   Um, so this could wake you up by just brightening the screen over time,

02:21:54   which is uh the way I I don't typically wake up to an alarm,

02:21:58   but when I do, that's how I wake up is there's a light next

02:22:00   to my bed that glows v very nicely.

02:22:03   Um, and that is much less jarring than, you know, your wrist vibrating or

02:22:08   an alarm playing.

02:22:09   Um they brought Johnny Sruji out for the display.

02:22:13   It's so weird.

02:22:13   I'm like, what?

02:22:14   Wait, what chip is he gonna talk about?

02:22:15   Yeah exactly.

02:22:16   No, he's not talking about chips now.

02:22:17   He's the head of all hardware.

02:22:18   Okay.

02:22:19   Oh that's why oh that's why you're confusing, right?

02:22:22   Like why is he out there?

02:22:23   But like he got elevated to be like hardware guy and hey, this is

02:22:26   hardware.

02:22:26   That's right.

02:22:28   So always on HDR 120 hertz display with P3, thousand nits typical, sixteen hundred

02:22:33   nits for HDR, three thousand nits outdoors, one knit minimum brightness.

02:22:38   This is all the same as the iPhone

02:22:43   The resolution, the interior resolution is 1878 by 2670 at 430 ppi.

02:22:50   The outer resolution is 1398 by 2034 at 460.

02:22:55   PSI almost said PSI PPI, which is 30 PPI better.

02:23:00   It's interesting this is the PPI difference.

02:23:01   I'm I'm not quite sure why they chose to do that.

02:23:03   The outer screen is just so much easier because it's flat, it doesn't bend,

02:23:06   it's got ceramic shield on it.

02:23:07   So it's

02:23:09   like all the things that the inner screen is not, the outer screen can

02:23:12   be.

02:23:12   And I just for whatever reason they picked a different PPI, which is also

02:23:16   weird because like they again they show the the little opening animation.

02:23:19   It makes it seem like the cover of the book, so to speak, is

02:23:22   transparent and that when you're opening it up you can see the un the

02:23:25   screen underneath.

02:23:26   Like they did it's all an illusion.

02:23:27   This is kind of like the uh when the uh back of uh an

02:23:31   orange uh iPhone uh 17 Pro looks like the same color as the surrounding

02:23:35   thing for From one particular angle, this illusion that they show looks really cool.

02:23:39   From any other angle, it's probably if it's like watching someone do like a

02:23:42   uh a scene in the volume at ILM, uh but you're not looking from

02:23:46   the right perspective and all the background looks wacky.

02:23:48   So we'll see how that looks.

02:23:49   But yeah, it they have to match that and they're matching a four sixty

02:23:52   PPI front screen to a four thirty PPI back screen to maintain that illusion.

02:23:56   So a little weird, but I mean I guess it makes sense.

02:23:59   So they have a perceptually flat matte surface.

02:24:02   Uh I did see a handful of videos, uh Tyler Tyler Stallman put something

02:24:06   that I'd seen on Instagram.

02:24:07   Uh I don't think I'll be able to find a link for the show

02:24:09   notes, especially since I think it's means it'll disappear.

02:24:12   But from what I could tell from video, so asterisk, double asterisk, dagger, double

02:24:18   dagger, it did look like the crease did disappear visually.

02:24:23   Now, my understanding is you can still feel it, but it sure looked like

02:24:26   it just disappeared.

02:24:27   This is very TBD.

02:24:29   Don't take that as fact.

02:24:30   I've not seen one in person.

02:24:32   We will see.

02:24:33   But I was impressed.

02:24:34   That was the whole pitch of the top layer.

02:24:36   Was like, hey, the crease is gonna be there and we can't stop it,

02:24:39   but we're gonna put this fuzz that's another I guess the other reason of

02:24:42   the matte texture.

02:24:43   We're gonna put this thing above it that's gonna diffuse the light because the

02:24:46   the way you pick it up, if you've seen lots of reviews of these

02:24:48   folding phones is you get a specular highlight at the crease, right?

02:24:50   It's like that the light gathers there, reflects as a little curve portion.

02:24:54   You get a specular highlight, it makes it super obvious.

02:24:56   And they're like, This screen, no specular highlights.

02:24:59   Everything is diffuse.

02:25:00   We're gonna put But this the and and you know the the the plastic

02:25:02   rumpily laser coated thing on the top of it also may have a crease

02:25:06   in it, but because it's so diffuse, because it is so matte, it dampens

02:25:11   down, it spreads the specular highlight that would highlight ha highlight where the crease

02:25:15   is over a larger area.

02:25:17   I think that's the idea.

02:25:18   And I that's why I believe, especially with a brand new model that they

02:25:20   just put out in front of the press, that it might actually not be

02:25:23   possible to see the crease with the naked eye, especially if the screen is

02:25:26   bright.

02:25:26   You know what I mean?

02:25:27   So they talked a lot about how they made all this work.

02:25:29   Like I was saying, there's a gazillion layers to the screen, um, with a

02:25:33   diz a gzillion different materials involved.

02:25:36   Um, but one way or another, they do their best to try to make

02:25:40   this look and feel as good as possible.

02:25:42   The A20 has a display engine with the dual display support and under-camera display

02:25:48   support.

02:25:49   Um, it has a uh 35% higher sustained performance over an iPhone 17 Pro,

02:25:55   not the 18.

02:25:56   It has the C2 cellular modem, which they specifically cited, and this is the

02:26:01   first time in an Apple cellular modem, 5G millimeter wave in the US, which

02:26:05   is a feature that I absolutely love.

02:26:08   Didn't I was fairly convinced that it was never coming to an Apple modem,

02:26:11   partially because I don't think anyone uses it, including me anymore.

02:26:15   But man, when you have it, it's incredible.

02:26:17   Um the C2 was supposed to be way way more efficient, uh faster uploads,

02:26:21   et cetera.

02:26:21   Uh the duo is eSIM only worldwide.

02:26:24   There are two batteries.

02:26:25   There's one on each side of the phone that uh operates seamlessly as one.

02:26:30   You get 31 hours of video playback on the inner display, 44 on the

02:26:33   outer display because it's smaller, less to illuminate, 24 hours of usage per charge,

02:26:38   50% charge in 20 minutes by wire, five hours of video on the outer

02:26:42   display after five minutes of charging.

02:26:44   Conspicuously absent from the keynote, which got me very nervous, was any mention of

02:26:49   MagSafe whatsoever.

02:26:51   They did say that one of the that the back of the closed uh

02:26:55   the when it's closed, that the back is ceramic shield one, which would No,

02:26:59   that's got MagSafe.

02:27:00   It's the notes somewhere.

02:27:01   I'm getting there, darn it.

02:27:02   So they the the fact that it's glass on the back made me think

02:27:06   maybe it has MagSafe, or maybe that's just for, you know, cellular and and

02:27:10   radio and whatever.

02:27:11   Uh but no, it does turn out as John ruined for me, but that's

02:27:15   all right.

02:27:15   Uh it does indeed have MagSafe.

02:27:17   Although I did see somewhere that it's specifically sites in like the comparison that

02:27:21   you can use I forget these specifics, but it's like you can use uh

02:27:25   shoot.

02:27:25   All right, where is it?

02:27:26   I can't find it either.

02:27:27   I don't know if it's in there somewhere.

02:27:29   All right, well uh oh there we go.

02:27:30   I see it.

02:27:31   Uh so MagSafe wireless charging up to twenty five watts with a thirty watt

02:27:34   adapter or higher.

02:27:35   Compatible with MagSafe cases, wallets, wireless chargers, and more.

02:27:39   Although I don't I think that's wrong.

02:27:40   I think the duo is not compatible with wallets, if I recall correctly.

02:27:44   I think I copied and pasted that from their comparison page.

02:27:46   So maybe the compare page is wrong, but it seemed like it had the

02:27:49   same kind of entry as everything else.

02:27:50   Yeah maybe I've got it wrong.

02:27:51   I don't just go do a little investigation.

02:27:54   But the point is we had heard, okay, no face ID, true, bums me

02:27:58   out but we'll see how the touch ID is.

02:28:01   Uh that we had heard uh no mag safe really bummed me out because

02:28:06   I almost never plug in my phone anymore.

02:28:08   Uh that turns out to be not true, which I'm excited about.

02:28:11   And the other thing we heard was that the camera situation was as compared

02:28:14   to the Pro anyway, not going to be stellar.

02:28:17   And let me tell you, that is correct, and I am very sad about

02:28:20   it.

02:28:21   There is a fusion main camera which has the fake 2x zoom where they

02:28:26   do a crop of the uh full frame.

02:28:28   Uh it does do 4K 120 frames per second video, no variable aperture, no

02:28:33   Apple reference image support.

02:28:35   The zoom levels are half uh one in 2x as compared to the pro

02:28:39   which is half one, two, four, and eight.

02:28:42   This means there is no telephoto.

02:28:43   There's a uh ultra wide and a main camera.

02:28:46   There's no telephoto.

02:28:47   And your boy is not happy about it, y'all.

02:28:50   Not happy.

02:28:51   What are you gonna do?

02:28:53   Uh but that's all right.

02:28:54   It's fine.

02:28:54   Oh, it doesn't have pro raw either.

02:28:56   The selfie camera is also lesser.

02:28:58   It's uh twelve twelve megapixel center stage instead of eighteen on the eighteen pro

02:29:02   on max.

02:29:03   That's right.

02:29:03   Uh the interior camera, the underscreen camera is not nearly as good.

02:29:07   Although it does have the dual dual capture FaceTime thing, which is nice.

02:29:10   Yes.

02:29:11   So uh we're jumping ahead ever so slightly, but that's totally fine.

02:29:14   Uh it does dual capture and FaceTime, so you can do uh dual capture

02:29:17   like when you're recording video but you can also do duo face time which

02:29:21   is where the uh you you're you're holding it open and you're seeing the

02:29:26   other person and yourself and at the same time the Back display, what would

02:29:32   normally be the outer display, is showing the remote person so that somebody else

02:29:37   that's not you, that's looking at the back of your phone, can also participate

02:29:42   in what's going on, which is very, very slick.

02:29:44   I'm curious to see, maybe they showed it and I just didn't.

02:29:46   I'm curious to see what this looks like on the other side of the

02:29:49   call.

02:29:49   Do you get two views?

02:29:51   Two like do you get both the view of me and the view of

02:29:54   Marco in front of the back camera?

02:29:56   I I I don't know.

02:29:57   But I mean I think ultimately like the the dynamics of having a screen

02:30:03   that can face the same way as the back cameras, that's gonna sell a

02:30:08   lot of these in lots of different ways.

02:30:10   Because think about like they showed it for two seconds in the video, but

02:30:14   being able to take a selfie using the best camera on the phone is

02:30:19   a huge advantage of foldables.

02:30:22   Because the back you can use the back camera while looking at a screen

02:30:26   and you can see what it's taking.

02:30:27   Like that changes so much about taking pictures.

02:30:30   So that like I think a lot of people are gonna buy the folding

02:30:35   phones and and stick with them forever for that reason alone.

02:30:40   And they showed it y it's also its own stand, which goes great with

02:30:43   the feature they have where like it waits for everyone to be looking at

02:30:46   the camera and staying still to take the picture so you don't have to

02:30:48   use timers or anything.

02:30:49   But it is its own stand.

02:30:50   You just put it into a little L shape, you point it where you

02:30:52   want, everyone gathers in front of it, the smart software waits until everybody is

02:30:55   looking at the camera and takes the picture.

02:30:57   Like this is what I think, I think they like thought of everything.

02:30:59   They had the thing where like you're taking a picture of a little kid,

02:31:01   so it shows a little animation of Snoopy on the screen that they can

02:31:04   see to make them smile.

02:31:05   So it just just every good idea that they had they put into this

02:31:08   phone software wise.

02:31:09   Yep.

02:31:10   Uh yeah, that's called KidQ, where they show Snoopy or perhaps other things on

02:31:14   the outer display such that the kid is very amused and smiles.

02:31:17   Uh we mentioned the smart take thing, which is where it it will hit

02:31:20   the shutter on its own once it thinks everyone is ready.

02:31:23   Uh, the they have a couple of cases.

02:31:25   They have an iPhone Duofolio with an integrated kickstand.

02:31:29   I can't decide if this is the least appealing case I've ever seen or

02:31:33   the most clever case I've ever seen.

02:31:34   I mean kudos for them for just saying, look, we're gonna we're gonna try

02:31:37   it.

02:31:37   We're gonna do cases.

02:31:38   Like we know third parties are gonna do them.

02:31:40   So would Apple do a case?

02:31:41   Yeah it it reminds me of like the f the the original iPad case

02:31:44   where like Apple's like we think the iPad might need a case.

02:31:47   How's this?

02:31:47   And everyone was like, Nope, that's not it, but could try.

02:31:50   I look at these and I'm like, uh, is that it?

02:31:52   I don't know.

02:31:53   It's it's something.

02:31:56   They also have a duo case which has two parts that wrap around each

02:31:59   half.

02:32:00   Starting price, as we all pretty much expected, two grand for two hundred fifty

02:32:04   six eight.

02:32:04   That's better.

02:32:05   That's better than a lot of the people I that saw saw the predictions,

02:32:07   like, oh, how much is this gonna cost?

02:32:09   I mean they got it one nine nine nine nine, right?

02:32:11   That is I think the lowest uh end of any of the predictions I

02:32:14   saw.

02:32:15   It was like maybe they'll get it for two thousand dollars.

02:32:17   And everyone's like, no, it's not even gonna start under that, it's gonna be

02:32:19   more.

02:32:20   So kudos for Apple for again beating expectations for the base price of what

02:32:25   this very expensive phone would be.

02:32:27   Yeah, and I think I think that makes it pretty reasonably competitive with the

02:32:31   other folding phones on the market.

02:32:32   Like they're all in the same price range.

02:32:35   And if you know for Apple to be shipping like their, you know, their

02:32:38   top of the line implementation of these ideas for Apple prices and for it

02:32:42   to be competitive is is pretty impressive.

02:32:44   Yeah, so it's uh it'll go up to two gigabytes, but again, two grand

02:32:47   for two hundred and fifty six gigs.

02:32:49   Pre-orders start on October 16.

02:32:52   They are available on the 23rd.

02:32:55   Uh, and that was the entire presentation.

02:32:57   I'm gonna circle back in a second to more phone stuff.

02:32:59   But what we did not see in this presentation, which I am not happy

02:33:03   about.

02:33:04   There's no new Apple TVs.

02:33:06   Hopefully they're gonna do some like home oriented presentation sometime in like October.

02:33:10   Or it's a press release product.

02:33:11   Or press release product.

02:33:12   I'd they could do it with like the I the uh the home pod

02:33:15   with the screen thing, this would fit right in there.

02:33:17   Yeah, I don't think there was ever any chance of Apple TVs being this

02:33:20   event because the the pattern they've followed for many, many years is like the

02:33:24   iPhone event in early September is iPhones and Apple Watches and basically nothing else.

02:33:31   And then later.

02:33:32   I guess AirPods in this case stupid.

02:33:34   And then later on in the fall, there's the October event, and that's more

02:33:37   if there's any Macs, iPads, and home products, they go in that event.

02:33:42   So that I would expect absolutely Apple TV, if they do their like home

02:33:47   dock thing, like if that makes it into this year that's rumored, um, that

02:33:50   I would expect to be in the October event as well.

02:33:53   Um so that's that was never gonna happen this time, Casey, sorry.

02:33:57   I know.

02:33:57   I my intellectually I know that but damn it, I want a new one.

02:34:00   But don't worry.

02:34:01   We're gonna be very busy over the next month changing our entire apps around

02:34:04   Seriously.

02:34:05   So don't worry.

02:34:05   It'll the time will fly by, I assure you.

02:34:08   That's very true.

02:34:09   Uh so let's go back.

02:34:10   Uh first of all the chatroom seems to be very crotchety about the fact

02:34:13   that nobody's gonna buy this phone.

02:34:14   Obviously, I don't know, but let me tell you, I really think that this

02:34:18   is gonna sell better than any of us, including me, expect, in no small

02:34:22   part because anyone who does any sort of the like prototypical content creation, so

02:34:27   like Instagram, TikTok, something like that, this phone seems tremendous for that.

02:34:32   I'm not saying like shooting a commercial with this phone.

02:34:35   No, you're gonna get an 18 Pro for that.

02:34:37   But if you're doing more casual now, pr it could be professional, but yet

02:34:41   uh uh seemingly casual camera.

02:34:43   Yeah, exactly.

02:34:44   I I'm trying not to be derogatory, but yes, that's what I'm as an

02:34:48   influencer creation device.

02:34:50   This seems to be Freaking perfect.

02:34:54   Actually, I'm gonna say this about the influencer thing of this.

02:34:56   Here's the role this fast in the influencer world.

02:34:59   They're gonna shoot it on their Sony whatever Z whatever, but they'll be holding

02:35:03   this phone in the whole video.

02:35:04   No, that could be.

02:35:06   That's how it's gonna work.

02:35:07   That is because it's a status item.

02:35:08   Like I mean the the saving grace that this has is the reports are

02:35:12   that they're uh first of all, that they're not manufacturing a lot of them

02:35:16   and that the manufacturing is going slower than expected.

02:35:19   So maybe they'll sell every single one of these they could make, and we

02:35:21   just don't know how many that's gonna be.

02:35:23   Uh but yeah, like I think they're Apple's presentation of this device, why would

02:35:28   you want this?

02:35:29   Having not touched the thing with my hands, I don't even have a model.

02:35:32   From what I saw in the video, I'm like, okay, they have a compelling

02:35:35   case because like and I was amazed in the ad that they didn't show

02:35:38   some of the most compelling stuff.

02:35:39   Like, show the thing where where the person you're taking a picture of can

02:35:43   tell you that they're not frame red and to move.

02:35:45   Show the thing where it's entertaining a kid and take like take show the

02:35:48   thing where it's a like a little laptop where the video controls for once.

02:35:51   Do not dim the entire video image so it can show a giant pause

02:35:55   button in the middle and take three seconds after you hit play to go.

02:35:58   One, two, three.

02:36:00   Okay now on dim.

02:36:01   All the controls can be away from the video like they were in Quick

02:36:04   Time Player Seven, back in the days when our controls didn't of our content.

02:36:08   Well, those days are back again with the iPhone Duo.

02:36:11   Like this is a an easy phone to sell in ads.

02:36:15   Not so easy once they see the price tag, but I think it will

02:36:18   be perceived as a luxury high-end good, even if it turns out that most

02:36:22   people don't use a phone in this aspect ratio.

02:36:24   We'll see how that goes, because again, Samsung's out there with their there were

02:36:27   copycat phone and the same aspect ratio.

02:36:29   But until this phone and the Samsung one, I don't think there were a

02:36:32   lot of foldable phones in this particular dimension.

02:36:35   So it's kind of an unknown.

02:36:36   But I don't, you know, yes, it's

02:36:39   even more so elsewhere in the world.

02:36:41   But I feel like this is kind of like, you know, it's a high

02:36:44   end product that not a lot of people are gonna buy.

02:36:47   Uh and you know, the the the the bigger question is follow up phones,

02:36:52   the the the duo two, duo three, do in in the future.

02:36:55   Do they keep making this?

02:36:57   Do they, you know, does it eventually become a mass market product?

02:37:00   Is it always just gonna be a high end?

02:37:01   Like how is this gonna go in the future?

02:37:03   But for the very first one, I think they'll probably sell most of what

02:37:06   they can make.

02:37:07   Oh, I think they're gonna have no problem selling.

02:37:09   I think they're gonna sell Literally every single one of them, I think they're

02:37:12   gonna be back ordered for months.

02:37:14   Yep, agreed.

02:37:15   I want to go back to something you said about aspect ratio.

02:37:17   I meant to bring this up earlier and I forgot.

02:37:18   Something that occurred to me is that even though I do mostly like the

02:37:22   size of my iPhone 17 Pro, not the Pro Max, with 17 Pro.

02:37:26   First of all, I am deeply committed to using it with a pop socket

02:37:29   because I just feel like it's too big for my hand anyway.

02:37:31   It's too big to use without.

02:37:33   But I cannot reach past the top, like I cannot reach the top quarter

02:37:38   of this phone, maybe maybe third, third to quarter of this phone.

02:37:42   And yes, I know that the the pull down reachability, whatever you call it,

02:37:45   thing exists, but I can't reach the top of the screen.

02:37:48   I suspect, hope that I will be able to reach much more of the

02:37:54   exterior screen, the outer screen on the duo, than I can on any phone

02:37:58   I've had for the last several years.

02:38:00   And that is genuinely exciting to me.

02:38:02   Now, that also doesn't, I'm not acknowledging the fact that they've also moved a

02:38:05   lot of the things that I would need to reach closer to my thumb

02:38:08   as a righty.

02:38:09   But even still, even if stuff is is still lingering at the top of

02:38:13   the screen, I suspect I'm gonna have a much better time single handing this

02:38:16   phone than I have in a long time.

02:38:18   Now I could be wrong, maybe the the extra width will ruin this idea,

02:38:21   but sitting here, ignorance is lists.

02:38:23   Uh, and I I think this could be a lot better.

02:38:26   And I'm really, really stoked for that.

02:38:27   You know, they didn't show, speaking of things reaching things, maybe they showed it

02:38:30   in one of the the WWC style developer videos, but like uh in open

02:38:34   book mode, whatever that mode is called, in landscape, do they do like a

02:38:37   split keyboard like the iPad used to have?

02:38:39   I uh I that's another thing I meant to bring up.

02:38:41   Thank you.

02:38:42   I don't think they ever showed a keyboard.

02:38:44   No, I I think text input is gonna be a big question mark on

02:38:47   this.

02:38:47   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:38:48   One thing I've always I've always hated using the on-screen keyboard on iPads, even

02:38:53   iPad minis.

02:38:54   Yep.

02:38:55   Because it like the size of it is just it's like it's it's just

02:38:59   wrong.

02:38:59   It's not what my thumbs are used to on the phone, but it's too

02:39:02   small to use like a real keyboard.

02:39:04   Like it just it it never felt right to me.

02:39:07   And I think that's going to be a challenge for this phone because basically

02:39:13   However you're gonna use this phone, you're gonna have at least two different sizes

02:39:18   of the on screen keyboard.

02:39:19   Because if you use it closed, that's gonna be one size of the keyboard.

02:39:23   But then if you open it, even if you hold it in portrait opened,

02:39:27   it's gonna be way wider.

02:39:29   So you're gonna constantly be shifting between different physical sizes of the on-screen keyboard.

02:39:35   That I think is gonna be weird and maybe not good.

02:39:39   That's why I think maybe in landscape that they'll bring back the split keyboard

02:39:41   I don't did that ever go away in iPad or do people just not

02:39:44   use it anymore?

02:39:45   Um I th I think it's gone, but it was I mean, it wasn't

02:39:48   good because again, even then, like you're changing you're changing the physical layout of

02:39:52   it.

02:39:52   So even if you move the on screen keys into you know different rows

02:39:56   set set apart from each other, you're still changing the physical layout of the

02:40:00   keyboard between different orientations.

02:40:02   So I I think that's gonna be maybe a tough thing for people to

02:40:05   get over.

02:40:05   Well and this becomes popular, people will carry this with them much more than

02:40:08   they would ever carry an iPad because it does fold and can fit in

02:40:11   their pocket.

02:40:12   So maybe people will become accustomed to typing in landscape like they did on

02:40:16   those um sidekick, hip top sidekick things or like I think people will get

02:40:21   used to any form factor if they use it enough.

02:40:23   I think the outer screen, like the the book closed screen, that's fine.

02:40:26   That's just a phone keyboard, you'll fine with that.

02:40:28   But if people end up texting with this thing opened in portrait or landscape,

02:40:31   I think people will get used to whatever form they put it in.

02:40:34   I I imagine most people will be messaging with the thing closed, but we'll

02:40:38   see 'cause 'cause like when it's when it's closed, the screen is pretty short.

02:40:42   And so I I think like you're not gonna be able to fit a

02:40:46   lot of your content above the keyboard when it's closed?

02:40:50   I mean it's like the original i it's not it's still bigger than the

02:40:51   original iPhone I think there's plenty of room to see text messages.

02:40:54   Yeah, but it like my my guess is what's going to happen is people

02:40:58   people who you get this are going to end up unfolding it and using

02:41:02   it open for almost all messaging, just because they're they will want the keyboard

02:41:06   to be like one size that they're used to and they'll want more space

02:41:09   to actually see what they are what they are texting, you know?

02:41:13   So all in all, I I feel like this device, the iPhone Duo, is

02:41:18   an exercise in compromise, which is what we all expected.

02:41:21   You know, we don't have face ID, but we have a pretty solid touch

02:41:24   ID in theory.

02:41:25   Uh we don't have the world's greatest cameras, but we have decent ones.

02:41:30   Uh the the hinge sounds like it's good.

02:41:32   The crease sounds like it's mostly disappeared.

02:41:35   The matte screen is gonna be really nice, especially in like sunshine.

02:41:39   That should be really great.

02:41:40   Uh there's a lot of pluses and a lot of minuses, but I have

02:41:43   to say In a lot of ways, this does seem like a a return

02:41:48   to form for Apple insofar as it's well considered.

02:41:52   It seems like they've done their best job, as we were talking about earlier,

02:41:56   in making in in re-examining all their priors and saying, does the dock need

02:42:00   to be on the bottom?

02:42:01   Does does the toolbar need to be at the top?

02:42:03   You know, and so on and so forth.

02:42:04   Um, the animation when you open it, I I I forget if we even

02:42:08   brought this up, but the animation when you open this, where you see kind

02:42:10   of like a a fuzzy bit, like a reflected fuzzy bit on the left

02:42:13   hand side is your that was genius.

02:42:15   That that is Apple at their best.

02:42:18   Exactly.

02:42:18   Incredible.

02:42:20   So like is it dumb?

02:42:22   Kind of, but it's incredible.

02:42:25   I think that adds so much to it.

02:42:27   And that, that animation, as you're opening it, is the apple that the three

02:42:32   of us, and probably most of you listening to this show, that's the apple

02:42:35   we want.

02:42:36   That is the apple we want.

02:42:37   And I am so excited to see even a glimmer of that apple.

02:42:43   That's what I'm talking about.

02:42:44   So we were uh Marco and I particularly are very embittered, very grumpy, grumpy,

02:42:50   very offended about the way the developer story is on this phone.

02:42:54   Oh, it's a mess.

02:42:54   It's a mess for us.

02:42:55   I stand by everything the both of us were saying.

02:42:57   Yeah.

02:42:57   But I wanna end uh I wanna turn that frown upside down to end

02:42:59   with and say, I don't know I I will be buying one of th

02:43:03   that's the next thing I was gonna ask is what are you guys doing?

02:43:05   I will be buying one.

02:43:06   Marco said he will be buying one.

02:43:07   I will at least attempt to use it full time.

02:43:09   I don't know if I'll stick with it or not, but I don't think

02:43:13   that this is something I want necessarily, but I am genuinely excited to try

02:43:18   it out.

02:43:19   And I think a lot of the reason I'm excited to try it out

02:43:21   is because not only is the hardware different, which in and of itself is

02:43:24   novel, but the software is so different.

02:43:26   And again, taking off my developer hat and putting on my user hat, that's

02:43:29   really exciting.

02:43:30   And let me tell you.

02:43:32   I am not huge into the selfie, but I and I don't FaceTime that

02:43:37   often.

02:43:38   But man, some of the things that they're doing around this, and we don't

02:43:41   rehash the last half hour, but it's so clever and so cool.

02:43:45   And the fact that this thing is so versatile.

02:43:47   I mean I would argue this is the most versatile iPhone ever.

02:43:50   And I think that there's so much to like about this.

02:43:54   Even if you're not in the market for a folding phone, which gr me,

02:43:58   the user, I'm not in the market for folding phone.

02:44:00   Me, the developer is unfortunately, but me the user, not really.

02:44:04   Uh but even if you're not in the market, I think there's a lot

02:44:06   to be excited about.

02:44:08   And I genuinely think price be damned, I think like Marco said a few

02:44:12   minutes ago, this is going to sell like crazy.

02:44:15   And I'm not even just talking developers.

02:44:17   I think this is gonna sell and sell a lot.

02:44:19   So I'm in for one.

02:44:21   Marco, you said you're in for one.

02:44:23   If you have any other thoughts, I'm happy to hear it.

02:44:26   Yeah, I mean I again I th I think for developers of iOS apps,

02:44:30   I think it's your hands on one of these um because uh it there's

02:44:35   there's no way that the simulator is going to give us the real world

02:44:39   experience of handling and using the device.

02:44:41   It it can get close, it can help us work out the bugs of

02:44:45   you know getting our crap away from the sidebars and figuring all that stuff

02:44:48   out.

02:44:48   Like the you know it can it can help us develop like you know

02:44:51   the the functional part of the UI but it's not gonna help us develop

02:44:55   a great design.

02:44:56   Like it it's not gonna help us be able to test how how things

02:44:59   handle, how things look, how things work, what makes a good a a good

02:45:03   design on the duo.

02:45:04   Like we don't really know yet.

02:45:05   Um so I think for developers it's important to have this.

02:45:08   As a user, I don't think this will stick for me.

02:45:15   Um I I think the the compromises in some of the weird sizing of

02:45:20   it, the text input, the, you know, not as good cameras, not as good

02:45:24   speakers.

02:45:24   Like I think a lot of that stuff is going to irritate me.

02:45:28   Even beyond all that, it's heavy.

02:45:30   It's it's gonna feel like a brick in my pocket.

02:45:32   And uh even though it is a smaller brick th in some dimensions, but

02:45:35   it's it's thick and heavy.

02:45:37   And I think I I love a lightweight phone and so I don't see

02:45:41   myself using it full time to be honest, but um I I see a

02:45:46   pretty strong reason for me to have one for as a developer.

02:45:49   Do you plan to trial it full time at all?

02:45:51   Yeah, my plan is basically like I'll get it as soon as I can

02:45:54   get it and 'cause I I'm as I mentioned, I'm not getting an eighteen

02:45:56   pro.

02:45:57   Uh I'm sticking with my seventeen pro for the time being.

02:45:59   So um as soon as I can get my hands on a duo, like

02:46:02   I'm gonna try to order it on day one and see what the ship

02:46:04   dates are.

02:46:05   You know, I'll try there right at the beginning, even though it's gonna be

02:46:07   like isn't it like three in the morning or something?

02:46:09   But I honestly don't know.

02:46:11   Uh we'll have we'll have to look it up.

02:46:12   But um I'm gonna try to be there on day one, but we'll see.

02:46:17   In the meantime, I'll happily keep using my orange phone.

02:46:19   Fair enough.

02:46:20   John, I presume you are not in for duo.

02:46:22   You've all but said that already.

02:46:23   So what is the Syracuse family purchasing for this fall?

02:46:27   Yeah, I'm just getting a 18 pro for myself.

02:46:30   Um and I will say that if I if I had an iOS app,

02:46:33   I would probably get this phone just because like like Marco said, like this

02:46:36   is such a big change.

02:46:38   There There's no way to avoid getting this phone.

02:46:42   If you want if you want your app to take advantage of it.

02:46:45   If you don't want your app to take advantage of it because you're like,

02:46:46   oh my app, I don't care.

02:46:47   Like it's not, you know, it's it's people who buy this phone are not

02:46:51   gonna buy my app or I'm whatever, then fine.

02:46:53   But like this is kind of one of those things it's like getting an

02:46:55   ARM Mac.

02:46:56   Like if you you know, I had the the D T K when uh

02:46:58   when Macs went to ARM, right?

02:47:00   If you have Mac apps and you know, obviously the the ARM Mac DTK

02:47:05   thing was cheaper than two thousand dollars or whatever, but like it's kind of

02:47:08   one of those things you have to do just to make sure your app

02:47:10   works right and work out all the problems or whatever.

02:47:12   So I would do wonder how what percentage of the people who buy this

02:47:16   phone are gonna be developers?

02:47:18   Because I mean it is very expensive but like if you are an iOS

02:47:21   developer and you want your app to take advantage of this, you have to

02:47:26   buy the hardware.

02:47:27   Um that's not me.

02:47:27   I don't s app, so I'm not getting it.

02:47:30   I showed it to my wife and she m I I don't think she

02:47:34   quite understands like why anyone would want a phone like this, but I if

02:47:37   I could somehow get her to watch that portion of the presentation, I think

02:47:40   she would like, oh, that is kind of cool.

02:47:43   Um I fear her deciding that she wants it 'cause it's a very expensive

02:47:46   phone, but next year will be her year.

02:47:48   So when she gets her new phone, if she wants to get a fold

02:47:50   next year or duo or whatever, duo two or whatever's out then, that may

02:47:54   be the introduction of the duo into household, especially if Pokemon Go takes advantage

02:47:58   of the screen.

02:47:58   I was gonna say like could you Remy run two Pokemon Go instantly instances

02:48:02   side by side.

02:48:02   Oh no, you have to yeah I think you have to be signed in

02:48:04   in two different accounts.

02:48:05   Maybe uh if she can do that, she's definitely getting this phone.

02:48:08   Um she's right now she's just she's salivating it my uh the pristine battery

02:48:13   in my uh 16 pro because she's gonna get this phone goes to the

02:48:16   Pokemon mines after I get my new one.

02:48:18   I mean technically she could run three instances of it, you know, one on

02:48:21   the battery.

02:48:22   Yeah, exactly.

02:48:23   And burn the battery down three times as fast.

02:48:25   She would totally do that if that is supported by the app.

02:48:27   But hey, you know, it's uh up to the company that's making it to

02:48:30   do that.

02:48:31   Um, and I I think I tried to describe that opening animation two times

02:48:35   earlier.

02:48:36   May like that's what I was talking about when saying they they're trying to

02:48:39   make it look like the front of the book, the cover of the book

02:48:41   is made of glass and you could see through it.

02:48:43   That's getting at, right, Casey?

02:48:44   Yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean like again, I th I think that effect

02:48:47   only works dead on, but uh I'm definitely gonna try that out.

02:48:50   It I mean, it's kind of like I can see how they came up

02:48:53   with that, but like I think back to the original iPhone with like the

02:48:55   slide animation.

02:48:56   That works from any angle, but it's much less impressive.

02:48:58   And this is like way more impressive, but only works if you're looking dead

02:49:02   onto the phone.

02:49:02   But maybe you're always looking dead onto the phone when you open it.

02:49:04   Who knows?

02:49:04   And it just seems strikes me that the kind of thing that they might

02:49:07   change.

02:49:07   Kind of like the ripple effect in dashboard.

02:49:09   They're like, all right, that's enough of that.

02:49:11   Um but we'll see how long this lasts.

02:49:13   And also if it that is at all stuttery, it kind of ruins the

02:49:16   illusion.

02:49:16   So we'll see how that goes as well.

02:49:18   But boy did this phone demo well.

02:49:20   Um and then on the C2 chip in the thing with millimeter winner and

02:49:23   everything, I was kind of upset when because the rumors were that the like

02:49:27   this would get the C two, but that the the the eighteen pro would

02:49:30   not.

02:49:31   But it turns out that was only half right.

02:49:32   The eighteen pro gets the C two, which means it has the, you know,

02:49:36   lower power, blah blah blah, and also millimeter wave.

02:49:38   So it's like the no compromise.

02:49:40   You've got the phone that I'm getting will have the Apple, hopefully good Apple

02:49:45   cell radio that still has a millimeter wave, even though I've never actually used

02:49:48   it.

02:49:48   So it's like no compromises on features and lower power.

02:49:51   But for whatever reason the Pro Max doesn't.

02:49:53   I wonder if they just couldn't fab capacity or something, or they just had

02:49:56   some deal with Qualcomm or they had to buy Qualcomm chips for something.

02:49:59   Like it's it's mysterious.

02:50:00   I wonder if anyone will get an Apple on the record saying why that

02:50:03   split exists, but searching Apple's websites like again, that's that's for Mac rumors.

02:50:08   I can't even confirm that that's entirely the case.

02:50:10   I believe it, it probably is, but Apple is not touting the fact that

02:50:14   one of the 18 phones doesn't have the C2 in it.

02:50:18   But but yeah, like they did everything they could with the hardware and software

02:50:21   of this phone to give it the best possible chance.

02:50:23   The compromises it has are compromises that are necessary from a technological perspective.

02:50:29   At this price, I will say.

02:50:30   Because if they wanted to make this a four thousand dollar phone, it probably

02:50:33   could have had better cameras.

02:50:34   You know what I mean?

02:50:35   But like within the realm of how they targeted this product, I think the

02:50:38   hardware and software team seem to have done a good job assuming that the

02:50:42   software actually works the way the demo showed it working.

02:50:45   Uh and we'll see how that goes because especially with stuff like this where

02:50:50   there hasn't been a long beta period where iPhone Duo uh users have been

02:50:54   testing iOS twenty-seven beta out in public.

02:50:57   No, then no one has been testing iOS twenty-seven on this phone except for

02:51:00   Apple employees.

02:51:02   Uh and that is a way smaller group than all the developers in the

02:51:05   world.

02:51:05   So expect a little bit of a bumpy road.

02:51:08   Best case it's like the iPhone ten was.

02:51:10   Uh worst case it's like the iPhone ten times three.

02:51:14   I I think I mean there is one difference though.

02:51:16   First of all, I I am extremely um extremely optimistic.

02:51:20   I think they're gonna sell as many of these as they can make.

02:51:23   I think it's gonna be way beyond developers who buy it.

02:51:26   I think it's gonna be a a significant hit within the category.

02:51:29   Now, that being said, they're gonna sell a hundred times more iPhone Pros than

02:51:35   this, but this will be a hit relative to other foldables, and I th

02:51:40   I definitely think it will substantially outsell the iPhone Air from this past year.

02:51:44   Like I think it will be it'll be a hit, but it will still

02:51:47   be, you know, probably less than ten percent of of the sales.

02:51:50   Um but that that would still be a hit.

02:51:52   However, what makes it different from the iPhone X from the developer point of

02:51:58   view is that the iPhone X was the Pro Phone of that year.

02:52:02   And it was what all future iPhones would be like, and we knew it.

02:52:07   So there was a huge volume of customers, both there in year one, and

02:52:13   we knew coming down the pipe, so that we had a huge incentive to

02:52:17   update our apps to m to make them ideal on that device.

02:52:22   Whereas we're gonna have that with this device because this is not the Pro

02:52:25   phone of this year.

02:52:26   It will not be the biggest selling phone of this year or probably any

02:52:29   year.

02:52:30   And the future is not gonna be all foldables.

02:52:33   So this is gonna be a a new device family that we have to

02:52:38   accommodate, but it's not gonna be the one with the most people in it.

02:52:42   So that might actually slow down development efforts to adopt to its screen for,

02:52:48   say, big companies.

02:52:49   Like, you know, I can imagine this is gonna be the kind of thing

02:52:51   that like, you know, Google Docs, for instance, like they're gonna take forever.

02:52:54   Like it, you know, that that kind of app where a company has to

02:52:58   justify it, it might not have the the volume to to motivate that kind

02:53:03   of development yet.

02:53:05   All right.

02:53:05   Anything else we want to talk about from the event today?

02:53:08   Oh, they gave uh Golden Gate a release date.

02:53:10   It's on the 14th.

02:53:12   Yay.

02:53:12   Cool.

02:53:13   I'm excited about it.

02:53:14   Um this is a question for you two.

02:53:16   Uh real-time uh question on the air.

02:53:18   Uh is the Xcode RC can you submit to the App Store from that?

02:53:21   Yes.

02:53:22   All right.

02:53:22   Well then I got some work to do this week.

02:53:24   Yeah, we yeah I think we all have a lot of No, I d

02:53:27   I mean I just have to submit my already done uh tested macOS twenty

02:53:31   seven builds of my apps.

02:53:33   I honestly, so I I had mentioned um somewhere else, I think it was

02:53:37   here, I'd mentioned that like I had not done any um overcast UI work

02:53:41   to lay out for the new phone yet.

02:53:44   I am so glad I didn't because this changes everything.

02:53:48   Like it it wasn't just resizing the app.

02:53:50   It's like, oh, move all the toolbars, change the way sheets work, add rotation

02:53:56   support, which Overcast has never had.

02:53:58   Like it's a tremendous undertaking.

02:54:01   Like oh geez.

02:54:02   Okay, so it yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be some work.

02:54:05   But at least now I know what I'm aiming for.

02:54:07   And maybe someday Apple will give me the tools to do it.

02:54:09   All right, thank you to our sponsors.

02:54:11   This episode Quince, Factor, and 11.

02:54:14   Labs.

02:54:14   And thanks to our members who support us directly, you can join us at

02:54:17   ATP.fm slash join.

02:54:19   One of the many perks of membership is ATP overtime, our weekly bonus topic.

02:54:23   Here you are, nearly three hours into this episode, and just think you could

02:54:27   have even more of us.

02:54:29   Because you this is not enough.

02:54:31   You need more of us.

02:54:32   You can hear more of us every week by joining as a member, ATPFM

02:54:36   slash join.

02:54:36   This week on overtime, we're gonna be talking about Apple's new business terms for

02:54:41   the EU, which sounds so delightful and simple.

02:54:43   Um I'm sure it will be.

02:54:44   Well you can hear us talk about that uh by joining.

02:54:47   Hv.fm slash join.

02:54:48   Thanks everybody.

02:54:49   We'll talk to you next week.

02:54:53   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, cause it was

02:54:59   accidental.

02:55:00   Accidental Oh it was accidental.

02:55:03   Accidental John didn't do any research, Marco in Casey wouldn't let him.

02:55:09   Cause it was accidental.

02:55:11   Accidental It was accidental

02:55:14   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm And if you're into Mastodon

02:55:22   You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L I S S So that's K C Lis

02:55:30   M-A-R-C-O A-R-M-N-T-Marco Go Armin, S-I-R-A-C, USA C recusa, it's accidental, accidental.

02:55:44   They didn't mean to accidental accidental check Tech podcast so long.

02:55:53   Quick after show update on my app Jetty that I talked about a couple

02:55:57   episodes ago that puts dock-like things all around the edges of your screens.

02:56:01   And last time I talked about it, I said I had this weird weird

02:56:04   scheme where I was gonna have like uh a free version on the App

02:56:06   Store and then if you have the App Store version installed and you download

02:56:09   the Pro version, uh the Pro version will sense that you have the free

02:56:13   version or not the you it'll sense that you have the App Store version

02:56:16   and then just run for free because you've already paid through the App Store

02:56:19   um and that is a scheme that since then lots of developers have written

02:56:22   to me and said, Oh, I do that now and Apple actually hasn't yelled

02:56:25   at me about it.

02:56:26   And some people are like, oh, not only do I do it, but inside

02:56:28   my app I tell people to go download the Pro version and Apple hasn't

02:56:31   stopped me.

02:56:32   Uh Um, again, that doesn't

02:56:35   stop me because there's no consistency in the app store, but at least it

02:56:38   is something that people have done and not gotten yelled at.

02:56:41   Technic from a technical perspective, it's easy to do, I've already done it.

02:56:43   Um, but my news is that I've, you know, and I said like a

02:56:47   ATP members will could be on the test flight and all the other stuff,

02:56:50   like I did with my other apps and like Casey did with his apps.

02:56:52   So I've been doing that and ATP members have been joining the test flight

02:56:55   and doing stuff and I have a Slack and we're getting bug reports and

02:56:58   doing all the things, right?

02:56:59   And during that process, what I pretty pretty quickly discovered is that

02:57:05   as I was like fixing bugs and adding features, like I would do like

02:57:09   the release notes of like, okay, in this test flight build, I added X,

02:57:12   Y, and Z, and you know, put you know, doing your release notes for

02:57:15   your test flight builds.

02:57:16   Um And I kept realizing that like often when I was uploading the test

02:57:21   site build, I didn't write because I hadn't actually changed anything in the Mac

02:57:26   App Store version of the app because every single feature I added was only

02:57:30   in the Prover.

02:57:32   Because you can't do anything in the Mac App Store.

02:57:35   Everything is oh private API this and no, you can't do that.

02:57:38   And I tried to get like seven different entitlements that would've let me do

02:57:42   things, and Apple was like, Rejected, rejected, rejected.

02:57:44   Your app doesn't need this.

02:57:45   Your app doesn't need this.

02:57:46   You can't this, your app doesn't No, there's no appeal process.

02:57:48   You can't, you can't have it, can't have it.

02:57:49   It's like why even have these entitlements?

02:57:51   Like you know, just it if I wanna like oh my god, just some

02:57:56   of the entitlements is getting rejected for us.

02:57:57   Like if an app like this can't have it, if an app like this

02:58:00   where you can put like a folder in a doc and click on it

02:58:02   and open the folder and put things into it.

02:58:03   If I can't have the entitlement that lets me do that with arbitrary folders,

02:58:06   then what app deserves it?

02:58:08   Because you can put arbitrary folders in a dock-like thing and I think Apple's

02:58:10   attitude is don't make a dock-like thing.

02:58:13   So I pretty quickly came to the decision.

02:58:16   This is not going to be in the Mac App Store.

02:58:18   I still have the same project where there's, but I cannot like an uh

02:58:24   an uh an app like this that is any good, that has the features

02:58:27   that I want it to have, the features that I've written for it, cannot

02:58:30   be in the Mac app store.

02:58:31   So I basically stopped the test flight.

02:58:33   I took it off the member page at ATP.

02:58:35   If you ATP.fm, if you go there, you'll see I don't even mention the

02:58:38   test flight.

02:58:38   All I say is hey, do you want to be on the Jetty Pro

02:58:41   Beta?

02:58:41   Uh send me an email and I'll add you to a list.

02:58:43   And I just, you know, then you can download the beta and you can

02:58:46   test it or whatever.

02:58:47   So I'm all in on Jetty Pro, which is fun because the first fact

02:58:51   item will be why is it called Jetty Pro?

02:58:53   Where's non-pro?

02:58:54   Someday maybe there will be a non-pro because in theory I could do a

02:58:58   lot of these things in the Mac App Store if Apple would get let

02:59:01   me have the entitlements, which they're currently not, because I literally got rejected for

02:59:04   every every single entitlement I asked for.

02:59:07   And also, if they fulfill the feedbacks that I filed over the past five

02:59:11   to ten years asking for features that they don't provide that they totally should.

02:59:15   Uh but in pro, I don't have to worry about that.

02:59:17   I just use the private APIs and they can't stop me.

02:59:20   Um so that's my plan.

02:59:22   But of course oh you're going to have this thing outside the Mac App

02:59:24   Store how are you gonna deal with payments?

02:59:26   Well, I took a wild diversion off into figuring how to do payments outside

02:59:29   the Mac App Store.

02:59:30   I actually implemented it twice, once on Fast Spring, which was by far the

02:59:35   easiest to set up and the most full featured, and I highly endorse and

02:59:38   recommend it because everything else was like a nightmare to even get into.

02:59:42   Um, but after that, I decided that I'm going to rip all that out

02:59:47   and redo it with a combination of Revenue Cat and Stripe, mostly because I'm

02:59:52   so familiar with Stripe.

02:59:53   And I didn't think I could use Stripe because it doesn't provide all the

02:59:56   functionality I need, but it turns out a combination of Revenue Cat, which is

02:59:59   also very well established and used by lots of developers, combining Revenue Cat with

03:00:04   Stripe in a way that Revenue Cat blesses and describes on their website and

03:00:08   has examples of Mac apps that do it.

03:00:10   I'm like, okay.

03:00:11   So it was a pain and I wasted a lot of time.

03:00:13   And I totally ripped out.

03:00:15   I made a new branch for just Revenue Cat and ripped out the Fast

03:00:17   Spring bring stuff and replace it with Revenue CAD and Stripe, and that is

03:00:20   my plan.

03:00:20   And as always, like the payment part is the most terrifying and complicated part

03:00:24   of the whole stupid app.

03:00:25   Because if you screw it up, it's bad.

03:00:27   So yeah, that's the state of things.

03:00:29   Jetty Pro, if you're an ATP member and you want to beta test Jetty

03:00:32   Pro, there's instructions on your member page.

03:00:34   It's still gonna be a while 'cause the app is still kinda rough.

03:00:37   Uh but boy am I adding lots of features and calling lots of private

03:00:40   APIs.

03:00:42   I'm very happy for you.

03:00:43   Honestly, this uh I I know this I know you know there's some downsides

03:00:46   to not being in the Mac app store, but I think for the kind

03:00:49   of apps that you make, I think it is good for you to get

03:00:54   set up outside of there because you can do so much good without sandboxing

03:01:00   and without, you know, being banned from using private APIs and stuff like that.

03:01:03   I I think I think it makes sense for John Syracusa to have direct

03:01:07   sales of apps that do deep system things.

03:01:09   Yeah.

03:01:09   Get getting the first one for sale outside the Mac app store is so

03:01:13   much harder than the second one.

03:01:14   Yeah, of course.

03:01:15   Yeah, yeah.

03:01:16   Like everything has to be done for the first one.

03:01:18   And by the way, I tried Paddle and Paddle was like talk to the

03:01:21   hand.

03:01:22   Paddle's like Paddle's like, show me your product page and your your refund policy

03:01:27   and your terms of service.

03:01:28   I'm like, I don't have a product page, my product isn't yet.

03:01:30   And they're like, no, we're not gonna talk to you.

03:01:32   Screw you.

03:01:32   Like their onboarding process was so hostile.

03:01:35   I was like, Okay, well then fine.

03:01:37   Like they they made it seem like you already had to have a product

03:01:39   for sale to get a product for sale with paddle.

03:01:42   And I'm like, well, this is chicken egg.

03:01:43   Like, I don't understand bootstrap this.

03:01:44   And they just kept rejecting me and sending me through this thing and it's

03:01:47   like, sorry, we looked at your website and there's no product there.

03:01:50   I'm like well, of course there's no product there, it's not released yet.

03:01:52   I tried to putting up a fake page, like, this is what the product

03:01:54   will be like, and they're like, nope, sorry.

03:01:56   So anyway, Fast Spring was great.

03:01:59   I recommend it.

03:02:00   Uh Revenue Cat plus Stripe, uh, if you're familiar with those things.

03:02:03   Revenue Cat is is more modern and nicer than Fast Spring was, and Stripe

03:02:07   is Stripe, but I'm just happening to be familiar with it.

03:02:09   So yeah, I'll I'll end I'll embark on that terrifying part when I finally

03:02:13   get to the point where I think I have an app that is close

03:02:15   to finished.

03:02:15   But right now I'm still in the development part where I'm using private APIs,

03:02:19   there are certain things that just don't work on the Mac.

03:02:23   It's just

03:02:25   terrifying like the most recent one was like, you know how you can label

03:02:28   folders and they they turn colored, right?

03:02:30   And also in like twenty six and twenty seven you can put little symbols

03:02:33   on folders.

03:02:33   Do you any use those features in the Finder?

03:02:35   I don't, but I know what you're talking about.

03:02:37   Yes.

03:02:37   But anyway, you can do that.

03:02:39   Uh and if you have private APIs, you can figure out like what they're

03:02:43   supposed to look like, which by the way, the Mac OS doc does not

03:02:46   do.

03:02:46   If you put a labeled uh folder into the doc on uh macOS 26

03:02:50   or 27, the doc doesn't care what the hell your label was, it will

03:02:53   not show it.

03:02:53   One of the reasons they don't is because there's no API to show it.

03:02:56   Ah, but there's APIs, fine.

03:02:57   So I get get the private APIs to do that.

03:03:00   But there is a bug where if you have a folder in iCloud Drive

03:03:04   and you label it as like red, about a half a second later it

03:03:07   changes back to gray.

03:03:09   Uh unconditionally.

03:03:10   No matter what what color you set it to, you set it to red,

03:03:13   changes to gray.

03:03:15   Okay.

03:03:16   Uh and you're like, okay, but how does the finder not show it is

03:03:19   gray?

03:03:19   Because the metadata is gray.

03:03:21   Okay.

03:03:21   It says gray.

03:03:22   But the finder doesn't well it turns out the finder has its own database

03:03:25   off to the sides that remembers it's supposed to be yellow.

03:03:28   Oh my god.

03:03:29   Like what the like how does that stand for two releases?

03:03:33   Like how like how does any you once you start using private A APIs,

03:03:36   you're like, how does anything work in this operating system?

03:03:38   First of all, you realize where they're private, and second of all, that's no

03:03:40   way to run an OS.

03:03:42   Okay, well we we have a bug where the metadata on the folder will

03:03:45   always be gray, but we want the finder to show it as yellow because

03:03:47   the user selected as yellow.

03:03:48   So finder, have an off-to-the-side database where you keep track of which folder is

03:03:51   supposed to yellow, even though the folder totally says gray.

03:03:53   And when you look at the folder.

03:03:55   Oh, and by the way, if you turn off network access, if you unplug

03:03:57   your LAN cable, so one of my testers found this out, it stays yellow.

03:04:01   But as soon as you connect to the network again, gray.

03:04:05   Weird.

03:04:06   Anyway, that's what I've been doing.