ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Okay, so you have caught us in the middle of doing uh our annual

00:00:04 ◼   ► donations to St.

00:00:05 ◼   ► Jude, which we'll talk more about in a moment.

00:00:08 ◼   ► But this is the time when the three of us get cranky at each

00:00:10 ◼   ► other because we all not outbid but outbid each other in making our donations

00:00:14 ◼   ► to St.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I am ready to oh no, I'd have to continue to donate.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Some of us forgot to prepare for this.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Yeah, well, that's that's none of us.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Some of us is me.

00:00:24 ◼   ► I uh I'm the problem.

00:00:25 ◼   ► It's me.

00:00:26 ◼   ► That's a uh fish song, right?

00:00:27 ◼   ► Yes.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Let's go with that.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Uh Apple Pay.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Let's do Apple Pay.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Is that gonna work?

00:00:34 ◼   ► We're gonna go for it.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Actually, so that's one thing I since I've been on Chrome, Chrome doesn't offer

00:00:39 ◼   ► Apple Pay for web forms.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I don't know if that's something I've missed or just what it just is

00:00:43 ◼   ► limitation.

00:00:44 ◼   ► But I kind of don't miss it because shop pay, link, and Google wallet

00:00:51 ◼   ► pay, whatever, are so much more reliable and faster to do.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Like Apple Pay on the web, it always is like, what's your shipping address?

00:00:58 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't have an address for you.

00:01:00 ◼   ► What's your credit?

00:01:00 ◼   ► Oh, wrong credit card.

00:01:01 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:01:02 ◼   ► Like it's so Apple Pay on the Web is so unreliable for me.

00:01:05 ◼   ► But all these other ones work flawlessly and usually faster.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Yeah, that's not surprising.

00:01:10 ◼   ► All right, I am ready to hit complete donation.

00:01:12 ◼   ► All right, me too.

00:01:13 ◼   ► Marco, you ready to go?

00:01:14 ◼   ► Uh hit it.

00:01:15 ◼   ► All right.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Done.

00:01:16 ◼   ► This is where I find out if my session timed out, waiting for you

00:01:18 ◼   ► two jokers to go through the thing.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Oh, John beat Marco by exactly $70.

00:01:25 ◼   ► And I picked both you fools.

00:01:26 ◼   ► How about that?

00:01:28 ◼   ► So uh Tiff and Marco, $7,007 and 77 cents.

00:01:32 ◼   ► John, well, just Syracusa, $7,077 and seven seventy-seven cents.

00:01:37 ◼   ► And Casey and Aaron List, $7,143.03.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Yeah, you won this year.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Congratulations.

00:01:42 ◼   ► This is the first year you've ever won, Casey.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Look at that.

00:01:44 ◼   ► And that's the exact same I did last year.

00:01:45 ◼   ► So look at it.

00:01:46 ◼   ► It's nice.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I for totally forgot what I did last year, but I just wanted

00:01:48 ◼   ► to do lots of sevens, and apparently so did Marco, but I added one

00:01:51 ◼   ► more seven than he did.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Yeah, last year I did all the sevens, and you guys yelled at me,

00:01:54 ◼   ► so I backed it off this year.

00:01:55 ◼   ► I mean, you can do whatever you want.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Like, we're not stopping you from donating more.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Like it just, you know, it is nice for Casey to get a win

00:02:00 ◼   ► once.

00:02:01 ◼   ► This is this is Casey's first victory in the St.

00:02:04 ◼   ► Jude uh blind donation off that we have every year.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Although I will also say that I think my one best victory was when

00:02:12 ◼   ► I had that weird issue with the ampersand or whatever it was.

00:02:15 ◼   ► That I think it was the first year we did this.

00:02:18 ◼   ► Yes, that's oh yeah.

00:02:20 ◼   ► I I thought I had hit an ampersand.

00:02:21 ◼   ► It probably was user error.

00:02:22 ◼   ► I swear I don't think it was, but logically it was user error.

00:02:26 ◼   ► Casey star Aaron.

00:02:27 ◼   ► Yeah, and then there were stars for all of the donations.

00:02:30 ◼   ► Well, not all of the years, yeah.

00:02:31 ◼   ► Every every listener was like ATP star.

00:02:34 ◼   ► Yep, it was incredible.

00:02:35 ◼   ► And so my failure was really a win for for the children.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I think this is the first year you want.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Don't quote me on it.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Maybe I'm wrong.

00:02:41 ◼   ► It's we've been doing this for a while, but uh yeah.

00:02:45 ◼   ► Hey, so it is September, and I always forget to look up if this

00:02:49 ◼   ► is a national thing or an international thing.

00:02:51 ◼   ► And for that, I apologize.

00:02:52 ◼   ► But I can tell you, at least here in America and potentially worldwide, it

00:02:56 ◼   ► is childhood cancer awareness month.

00:02:58 ◼   ► That is the month of September every single year.

00:03:01 ◼   ► And because it's the month of September, because it's not childhood cancer awareness month,

00:03:04 ◼   ► and because we are all deeply associated with Relay FM, uh, we are joining

00:03:10 ◼   ► Relay FM and slash a part of it.

00:03:13 ◼   ► Anyways, we are trying to raise money for St.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:03:17 ◼   ► So St.

00:03:18 ◼   ► Jude is a research hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, and its business is saving the

00:03:23 ◼   ► lives of children.

00:03:24 ◼   ► And what's really incredible about this is that we are in our eighth year

00:03:28 ◼   ► as the relay community coming together in September for St.

00:03:32 ◼   ► Jude.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Uh here's the thing.

00:03:34 ◼   ► When they opened, before they opened in 1962, child cancer was considered incurable.

00:03:40 ◼   ► Just tough nuts.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Your child's gonna pass away.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Sorry about that.

00:03:44 ◼   ► Today, thanks in part to Better Therapies that St.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Jude has helped develop, more than 80% of U.S.

00:03:44 ◼   ► childhood cancer patients survive, which is incredible.

00:03:52 ◼   ► St.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Jude cares for some of the world's sickest children, regardless of their race, ethnicity,

00:03:56 ◼   ► beliefs, or ability to pay.

00:03:57 ◼   ► And it's because of people like you that that's possible.

00:04:00 ◼   ► So for the last couple of years, uh I've been lucky enough to be

00:04:03 ◼   ► a part of the podcast a thon, which we typically did on iPhone release

00:04:08 ◼   ► day.

00:04:08 ◼   ► This year we're doing it the first Friday in October, which is, I believe,

00:04:13 ◼   ► the 2nd of October from noon uh ATP time until midnight ATP time.

00:04:18 ◼   ► And you can use that as an opportunity to watch me act like a

00:04:21 ◼   ► dumdum.

00:04:22 ◼   ► You can uh send money St.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Jude's way, but you can also do that right now.

00:04:26 ◼   ► And you heard in the pre-show that the three of us did our annual

00:04:29 ◼   ► donations.

00:04:30 ◼   ► Um, we do this because St.

00:04:31 ◼   ► Jude is that important to us and we feel that strongly about it.

00:04:34 ◼   ► So between the three of us, uh based on uh uh John's quick arithmetic,

00:04:38 ◼   ► uh 21,228.57 cents to the uh wonderful people at St.

00:04:43 ◼   ► Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:04:44 ◼   ► So as I was saying, I've been able to go for the last couple

00:04:46 ◼   ► of years.

00:04:47 ◼   ► Uh I think this is gonna be my third podcast-thaton, if I'm not mistaken.

00:04:50 ◼   ► Uh, and I gotta tell you that you can imagine what St.

00:04:53 ◼   ► Jude is like before you go, but actually being there is truly awe inspiring.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And the amount that St.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Jude as an organization cares about their patients, cares about trying to cure cancer

00:05:11 ◼   ► in children, it's astonishing.

00:05:13 ◼   ► And everything that everyone does at St.

00:05:16 ◼   ► Jude is with that unitary I don't know if that's what I'm looking for,

00:05:20 ◼   ► but that's specific mission in mind.

00:05:22 ◼   ► And I told this story on analog this week, and forgive me, but I'm

00:05:25 ◼   ► gonna tell it again here.

00:05:26 ◼   ► Uh, when I went for a like influencer thing a couple of years ago

00:05:29 ◼   ► in April of 2024, um, they just they took us to the pavilion, which

00:05:34 ◼   ► is this building where they uh have the history of St.

00:05:36 ◼   ► Jude and talk about their founders, uh Danny Thomas and his wife.

00:05:39 ◼   ► And they had this like not cork board, but think of it as a

00:05:42 ◼   ► cork board, where and it's set on it, what inspires you?

00:05:45 ◼   ► And they had these blank post-it notes that had already written on it, so

00:05:48 ◼   ► I guess they're not blank, but you know what I mean.

00:05:49 ◼   ► Already written on it says it says, I went to St.

00:05:51 ◼   ► Jude and was inspired by ellipsis.

00:05:54 ◼   ► And there's all of these post-its on this board, right?

00:05:56 ◼   ► And and I talked about this on my blog post a couple of in

00:05:58 ◼   ► a blog post a couple of years ago.

00:06:00 ◼   ► But um, on this board, I noticed a couple that were really striking to

00:06:03 ◼   ► me.

00:06:04 ◼   ► And it says, and it's clearly like uh uh young adult or adult handwriting.

00:06:08 ◼   ► It says, I went to St.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Jude and I was inspired by the lives they saved, including mine.

00:06:14 ◼   ► If that doesn't hit you in the feels, give me one more chance.

00:06:17 ◼   ► I looked over and I saw uh another post-it, and the handwriting was clearly

00:06:24 ◼   ► uh clearly a child's handwriting handwriting.

00:06:27 ◼   ► And it says, I went to St.

00:06:29 ◼   ► Jude and I was inspired by the fact that I will make it, and

00:06:33 ◼   ► there's a little heart drawn under it.

00:06:36 ◼   ► I saw this two years ago.

00:06:39 ◼   ► I've thought about this so often since, and I'm getting a little bit choked

00:06:42 ◼   ► up because that's how incredible this place is.

00:06:44 ◼   ► I wish I was a good enough actor to do that on cue.

00:06:47 ◼   ► I'm not.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Um, St.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Jude is real deal, and yeah, it stinks that we need Saint Jude, that

00:06:53 ◼   ► we haven't solved all these problems already, but we have.

00:06:56 ◼   ► And it's important to note that St.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Jude, their research doesn't stay in America, and their influence doesn't stay in America.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So you might rightfully think, hey, I'm in I'm in Europe or I'm in

00:07:06 ◼   ► Africa or something like that.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Why do I care?

00:07:08 ◼   ► Well, it's because of St.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Jude's and the research they do and the and the treatments that they come

00:07:14 ◼   ► up with, that it is possible for so many people worldwide, so many sick

00:07:14 ◼   ► children worldwide to get through these unbelievably bad diagnoses.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And as a final note from me, and then I'll give the other two

00:07:24 ◼   ► a chance to talk.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Um our dear friend Stephen Hackett, you know, his oldest son, Josiah, was a

00:07:31 ◼   ► St.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Jude patient.

00:07:32 ◼   ► That's how we got involved with it.

00:07:33 ◼   ► And at six months old, Josiah was was um was diagnosed with a really,

00:07:38 ◼   ► really gnarly brain cancer, and Josiah is, I think, 17 today or something like

00:07:43 ◼   ► that.

00:07:43 ◼   ► And Josiah is standing on this earth because of St.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Jude.

00:07:48 ◼   ► I'll say that one more time.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Josiah is alive because of St.

00:07:52 ◼   ► Jude.

00:07:53 ◼   ► And if I can throw five, 10, 15, 20, whatever dollars their way, then

00:07:57 ◼   ► I'm gonna do that.

00:07:58 ◼   ► And I hope you will too.

00:08:00 ◼   ► Now, Marco, we are coming up very quickly, we'll talk about this later, on

00:08:04 ◼   ► a time where a lot of us really enjoy participating in just unadulterated consumerism.

00:08:10 ◼   ► If one were to feel slightly guilty about what could you do to, I

00:08:13 ◼   ► don't know, maybe uh offset that a little bit.

00:08:16 ◼   ► I have big news this year.

00:08:18 ◼   ► The Marco offset is expanding.

00:08:21 ◼   ► Oh, tell me more.

00:08:22 ◼   ► Years ago, uh, I developed in public on this show the Marco offset, which

00:08:26 ◼   ► was uh the way that you can assuage some of your guilt about what

00:08:30 ◼   ► is probably coming up in you know a week-ish.

00:08:34 ◼   ► Um, the iPhone event and a fall full of new product launches.

00:08:38 ◼   ► We all have phones that work for the most part.

00:08:41 ◼   ► Like most people hearing this, you have a phone and it probably works.

00:08:45 ◼   ► And you probably want to replace it, especially once you see the new phone

00:08:50 ◼   ► that's coming out.

00:08:51 ◼   ► Like it's gonna be awesome, especially the one that folds in half, probably.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Like, you know, you're gonna want that.

00:08:55 ◼   ► And it's gonna cost a huge amount of money.

00:08:58 ◼   ► Now, originally I said years ago, to help assuage your consumer guilt that you're

00:09:03 ◼   ► about to buy products that maybe you don't necessarily need, or that you could

00:09:07 ◼   ► get a lower end one, or you could make the one you have last

00:09:11 ◼   ► another year or two before you upgrade.

00:09:14 ◼   ► You can assuage your consumer guilt by simply taking all the extra money that

00:09:19 ◼   ► you spend on top of your iPhone or Mac or whatever purchase above the

00:09:24 ◼   ► base price and donating an equivalent amount to St.

00:09:27 ◼   ► Jude in this campaign.

00:09:29 ◼   ► So that would include things like storage upgrades, Apple Care, the case, you know,

00:09:33 ◼   ► all that stuff that you might add on.

00:09:35 ◼   ► So whatever the base price of the phone was, I said if it's like,

00:09:38 ◼   ► you know, a phone that starts at 999 for that product line, and you

00:09:42 ◼   ► get one all in with tax and Apple Care and everything, you're up to

00:09:46 ◼   ► like 1200 bucks, then take that $200 extra and donate another $200 to St.

00:09:50 ◼   ► Jude.

00:09:50 ◼   ► Because if the fit theory was you can probably spare that little extra bit,

00:09:54 ◼   ► you just tacked it on at the end there, you can probably spare that

00:09:56 ◼   ► and give it to St.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Jude.

00:09:57 ◼   ► And we encouraged you, if you could, to do that.

00:10:00 ◼   ► This year the two expanded uh to a level two and a level three.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Oh, this is something I hand to God know nothing about, and I'm genuinely

00:10:09 ◼   ► very excited.

00:10:10 ◼   ► I got a comment on Mastodon a couple days ago from user John Mullins.

00:10:16 ◼   ► I'm not sure John Mullins was entirely serious.

00:10:19 ◼   ► I'm also not sure, not entirely sure John Mullins wasn't mad at me.

00:10:23 ◼   ► Um but what this user suggested uh is that um basically that I should

00:10:30 ◼   ► feel guilty about my use of AI.

00:10:32 ◼   ► And I know a lot of people out there would agree with that statement.

00:10:36 ◼   ► And what Sean said was, especially with the St.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Jude's campaign coming up, where a hundred dollars can make a huge difference.

00:10:41 ◼   ► We did the Marco offset as well as a max AI offset where people

00:10:44 ◼   ► donate the same amount that they paid for AI costs this month.

00:10:48 ◼   ► Ooh, that's very good.

00:10:44 ◼   ► That's very good.

00:10:51 ◼   ► What I am now declaring is the Marco offset has levels two and three.

00:10:55 ◼   ► Level one is still the baseline.

00:10:57 ◼   ► So when you buy an iPhone that maybe you don't necessarily fully need, and

00:11:01 ◼   ► when you get the really nice one that maybe you don't fully need, and

00:11:04 ◼   ► when you get the nice storage upgrade and the fan and the fancy case

00:11:08 ◼   ► and all that stuff, like that's still the base of the Marco offset.

00:11:12 ◼   ► But level two is that you add on to that whatever you spent on

00:11:18 ◼   ► AI this month.

00:11:20 ◼   ► Level three above that, whatever you spent on AI this year.

00:11:26 ◼   ► This is very good.

00:11:27 ◼   ► I am I fully endorse this.

00:11:29 ◼   ► The $20 a month plan for the one of the AI providers, you know,

00:11:31 ◼   ► you've you're in for you know $240 for the year.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Um, if you're on the hundred dollar a month plan, you're on you're up

00:11:37 ◼   ► for a little bit more, maybe.

00:11:39 ◼   ► So those are the three levels.

00:11:41 ◼   ► Level one is what it's always been, the iPhone price deltas.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Level two is you add on your AI costs this month if you've bought

00:11:47 ◼   ► any AI, and level three is you add on your AI costs for the

00:11:51 ◼   ► year.

00:11:51 ◼   ► And that should be your suggested minimum St.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Jude donation if you can swing it.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Now, these are wonderful ways to assuage us of things that maybe we feel

00:12:00 ◼   ► a little bit guilty about in some way, to do something good with some

00:12:04 ◼   ► extra money.

00:12:05 ◼   ► And uh, and as Casey was saying, it's an amazing organization, they do amazing

00:12:11 ◼   ► work, and we talk about it every year, and and you might like get

00:12:16 ◼   ► used to it after a while.

00:12:17 ◼   ► You might think, like, yeah, I've heard the pitch, yeah, I know.

00:12:20 ◼   ► They cure a bunch of childhood cancer, they treat a bunch of childhood cancer,

00:12:23 ◼   ► and no one pays for it.

00:12:24 ◼   ► Like none of their patients or their families pay a dime, including things like

00:12:28 ◼   ► lodging and travel and all the care around it.

00:12:29 ◼   ► And you might get tired of hearing that every year.

00:12:35 ◼   ► And you might stop for a moment understanding how amazing that is.

00:12:40 ◼   ► But every one of those statements, like that's a huge deal.

00:12:45 ◼   ► It's a remarkable achievement.

00:12:48 ◼   ► It is a huge amount of work.

00:12:50 ◼   ► It's a huge amount of money.

00:12:52 ◼   ► And the impact they have on not only the patients and the patients' families,

00:12:57 ◼   ► but the entire world of cancer research broadly around the world, as Casey was

00:13:02 ◼   ► saying, uh, it's it's just a massive impact.

00:13:04 ◼   ► So this is this is not to be forgotten or taken lightly.

00:13:09 ◼   ► They really do incredible work, and it's a really great place to donate money

00:13:14 ◼   ► to.

00:13:14 ◼   ► So please consider one of the Marco offsets or more if you want.

00:13:18 ◼   ► Um if you can swing it, this is this is a good way to

00:13:21 ◼   ► swing it.

00:13:22 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:13:22 ◼   ► Yeah, it's worth worth reiterating, like you mentioned that no one gets a bill.

00:13:25 ◼   ► It's not like uh there are certain patients that pay for it and certain

00:13:29 ◼   ► patients that don't, like college where some people pay tuition, some people get scholarships.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Nobody pays for it.

00:13:33 ◼   ► None of none of the patients ever pay a dime for anything.

00:13:36 ◼   ► And how do they do that?

00:13:37 ◼   ► How does an organization treat people for cancer at great expense, paying all the

00:13:40 ◼   ► doctors and scientists and and all the hospital like how do they do that?

00:13:44 ◼   ► All of their money comes from people giving it in donation drives like this.

00:13:47 ◼   ► As I've said before, is this the best system for providing health care?

00:13:50 ◼   ► No, but it's what we have.

00:13:52 ◼   ► And if you can help, you know, if you're gonna put your money towards

00:13:56 ◼   ► helping some uh kids survive cancer, it's a great use of it.

00:13:58 ◼   ► And I would also recommend, as I always do, to perhaps start thinking of

00:14:04 ◼   ► yourself as a person who gives to charity, especially if you didn't think of

00:14:08 ◼   ► yourself that way in years past.

00:14:09 ◼   ► Maybe you were a college student, maybe you were young, adult and broke and

00:14:12 ◼   ► didn't have a lot of money, but maybe you're later in life now and

00:14:14 ◼   ► you do have a little of money.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Once you start changing your mindset and actually start budgeting this, like you know,

00:14:22 ◼   ► this my donation is part of my annual budget.

00:14:25 ◼   ► Like it there are other things that can move and change, and maybe I

00:14:27 ◼   ► spend a little more on this and a little less on that.

00:14:29 ◼   ► But this domation remains a fixed percentage or a fixed amount or whatever.

00:14:34 ◼   ► Like I I planned for this during the year, and it took me a

00:14:36 ◼   ► long time to come around to like, oh, is it just like a magnanimous

00:14:39 ◼   ► wonderful thing I'd do every year, or is it just no, this is just

00:14:42 ◼   ► part of your annual expenses because it's a good thing to do.

00:14:45 ◼   ► And you know, when once you reach a certain level of success and have

00:14:48 ◼   ► a certain amount of savings and income and are comfortable enough, you should start

00:14:52 ◼   ► looking outwards and say, What can I do to help other people?

00:14:54 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be money, you can volunteer, do other things, whatever.

00:14:57 ◼   ► But one of the things you can do is give to St.

00:15:00 ◼   ► Jude during childhood cancer awareness month.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Now is the time to do that.

00:15:03 ◼   ► Try to start thinking of yourself as someone who does that as part of

00:15:07 ◼   ► their just normal life.

00:15:08 ◼   ► Uh it's you'll you'll benefit from it, and the recipients are from your money

00:15:12 ◼   ► definitely will.

00:15:13 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:15:13 ◼   ► And you know, you brought up a moment ago, what if you don't have

00:15:16 ◼   ► a ton of money?

00:15:16 ◼   ► Well, you can absolutely help St.

00:15:19 ◼   ► Jude and other charities in other ways.

00:15:21 ◼   ► Uh, you can set up your own fundraising, like fundraiser of your own that's

00:15:24 ◼   ► kind of a child of the uh relay fundraiser and come up with your

00:15:28 ◼   ► own little like milestones and stuff like that.

00:15:31 ◼   ► And a lot of people have done this over the last couple of years

00:15:33 ◼   ► with relay, and they've been very, very successful.

00:15:35 ◼   ► You can also just ask a friend, you know, say, hey, you know, it

00:15:38 ◼   ► it would be really cool if you sent five, ten, twenty bucks to St.

00:15:41 ◼   ► Jude or something like that.

00:15:42 ◼   ► Find the friend who's spending $200 a month on AI and tell them about

00:15:45 ◼   ► the Marco offset levels, you know, exactly.

00:15:48 ◼   ► Use the guilt to your advantage.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And like, and if you can't afford it, fine.

00:15:51 ◼   ► Like, but if you can give five bucks, give five bucks.

00:15:53 ◼   ► Like, if that's the level you can do it, every bit counts.

00:15:56 ◼   ► Like, this is the whole point of this pledge drive.

00:15:58 ◼   ► The whole point of it being a big month is that a thousand people

00:15:59 ◼   ► giving five bucks is five thousand dollars.

00:16:02 ◼   ► That's how math works.

00:16:03 ◼   ► Yep.

00:15:59 ◼   ► I cannot reiterate what John said enough.

00:16:06 ◼   ► Don't feel bad if it's two dollars, five dollars.

00:16:08 ◼   ► That's awesome.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Please do it.

00:16:10 ◼   ► And also for those of you who are in the technology industry and maybe

00:16:13 ◼   ► have employers that are uh conducive to doing this sort of thing.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Please check out as you donate that there's also options for employer match.

00:16:20 ◼   ► Uh this has gotten easier and easier to do during the donation process over

00:16:23 ◼   ► the last year or two.

00:16:24 ◼   ► So please check that out.

00:16:25 ◼   ► And uh we will be talking about this for the remainder of the month.

00:16:28 ◼   ► Uh, it won't go quite as long as it did today.

00:16:30 ◼   ► Uh, but I wanted to do one quick final thing.

00:16:32 ◼   ► I wanted to call out uh Guillaume Moran.

00:16:36 ◼   ► I hope I got that close to right.

00:16:38 ◼   ► Uh Guillaume has been the leader for the last several years on the leaderboard

00:16:43 ◼   ► for the largest donation.

00:16:44 ◼   ► Again, five dollars is great.

00:16:46 ◼   ► Don't let me dissuade you, but I do want to recognize people who go

00:16:49 ◼   ► above and beyond.

00:16:49 ◼   ► And Guillaume this year donated by themselves $12,718.28 cents.

00:16:56 ◼   ► And that is truly incredible.

00:16:57 ◼   ► It makes our pitally donations our donations seem piddly by comparison, but we still

00:17:02 ◼   ► did it because it's important.

00:17:04 ◼   ► So thank you to go to Guillaume.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Thank you to all of you for even thinking about donating.

00:17:08 ◼   ► And one more time, if you please, Saint Jude.org slash ATP, S-T-J-U-D-E.org slash ATP.

00:17:16 ◼   ► All right, we uh we have something that was that's a little embarrassing to

00:17:19 ◼   ► talk about, John.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Uh we made a bit of an oops.

00:17:22 ◼   ► What happened?

00:17:23 ◼   ► Do you know the reference in the show notes there before you watch the

00:17:26 ◼   ► video?

00:17:26 ◼   ► I certainly did not.

00:17:27 ◼   ► I've seen like three episodes of Seinfeld in my entire life.

00:17:29 ◼   ► Uh uh, Marco, do you recognize it?

00:17:31 ◼   ► I wasn't looking at the show notes at all.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Lose fooled me, Jerry.

00:17:37 ◼   ► Uh bring any bells?

00:17:38 ◼   ► Nobody, we'll put a link in the show notes.

00:17:39 ◼   ► It's a Seinfeld reference, trust me.

00:17:41 ◼   ► Anyway, continue.

00:17:42 ◼   ► Yeah, so uh we spoke uh last week about Daniel Luce's uh chart that

00:17:48 ◼   ► that they that they they had noticed about how long it takes for different

00:17:52 ◼   ► chips, different Apple chips to transcribe audio.

00:17:55 ◼   ► And we all thought it was real.

00:17:57 ◼   ► I personally thought, oh, I just didn't see wherever this came from.

00:18:00 ◼   ► But this is clearly a honest to goodness Apple chart.

00:18:04 ◼   ► And Daniel wrote in to say, sorry, to be clear, that was fake.

00:18:09 ◼   ► There's no audio transcription comparison on Apple's website.

00:18:12 ◼   ► I meant it just as an inside joke for fans of the show, not

00:18:14 ◼   ► to trick you guys.

00:18:15 ◼   ► I also almost made a chart comparing gaming performance on the M5 Ultra to

00:18:18 ◼   ► the Mac Pro 2019 with 12 core CPU as another ridiculously specific comparison.

00:18:22 ◼   ► That would have tipped me off, but real honestly, the real tip off was

00:18:25 ◼   ► the fact that it said long form audio transcription, because Apple would never say

00:18:28 ◼   ► long form audio transcription as audio transcription.

00:18:30 ◼   ► There's no difference between long form and regular form.

00:18:33 ◼   ► They just they do a benchmark and how long does it take to transcribe

00:18:35 ◼   ► X seconds of audio?

00:18:36 ◼   ► So that should have been the giveaway.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Our bad.

00:18:39 ◼   ► Daniel was not trying to fool us, but he did.

00:18:42 ◼   ► Yep.

00:18:43 ◼   ► Whoops.

00:18:44 ◼   ► Fooled me, Jerry.

00:18:46 ◼   ► Watch the clip.

00:18:46 ◼   ► It's a good clip.

00:18:47 ◼   ► I did.

00:18:47 ◼   ► It was a good clip.

00:18:48 ◼   ► Uh all right.

00:18:49 ◼   ► And then also Apple kind of sort of fooled us all.

00:18:51 ◼   ► Uh Joe Rollsignal at Mac Rumors writes Apple's press release for the new Mac

00:18:56 ◼   ► Studio with M5 Max and M5 Ultrachips last week initially stated that the computer

00:18:59 ◼   ► had, quote, next generation SSD architecture built on PCIe Gen 6, quote.

00:19:04 ◼   ► However, Apple removed the PCIe six mention from the announcement shortly after it was

00:19:08 ◼   ► published.

00:19:08 ◼   ► Whoops it upsies.

00:19:10 ◼   ► Apple is yet to respond to our request for comment, but it seems like

00:19:12 ◼   ► the company simply made a mistake in the press release, as it is much

00:19:14 ◼   ► more likely that the new Mac Studio supports the PCIe 5.0 standard.

00:19:19 ◼   ► What a wild mistake.

00:19:20 ◼   ► I mean, we did say PCIe Gen 6, I think, on the last episode,

00:19:22 ◼   ► so we noted it, but like, is that a typo?

00:19:26 ◼   ► Because the five is next to the six key?

00:19:28 ◼   ► Did they plan to do PCIe six and then change their mind six months

00:19:29 ◼   ► ago or a year ago?

00:19:33 ◼   ► Like, wow, what a what a strange thing to get out in a press

00:19:36 ◼   ► release.

00:19:37 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, I think they basically just did the same thing they

00:19:40 ◼   ► say with all of them, like all the M5s, they always say, and the

00:19:43 ◼   ► storage is faster than the M4.

00:19:44 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, the M5 is the M5 things are faster than the M4

00:19:47 ◼   ► for reasons we went into when they first released all the M5 things.

00:19:50 ◼   ► The studio Mac Studio is surely the same.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Uh, but I believe those were all PCI5.

00:19:55 ◼   ► So it would be weird if the studio was PCI Gen 6.

00:19:59 ◼   ► When we get those into our hands, we can confirm this, but uh Apple

00:20:03 ◼   ► made a little mistake there, it seems like.

00:20:05 ◼   ► All right, John, can you remind me what is a Siri blob?

00:20:08 ◼   ► If you're using Golden Gate uh on a Mac, you will know the Siri

00:20:11 ◼   ► blob because you'll just be using your computer, and your pointer will be over

00:20:15 ◼   ► some text, a text field, or I think sometimes even like just static text

00:20:18 ◼   ► that happens to be selectable, and all of a sudden, a tiny circular Siri

00:20:23 ◼   ► blob, you know, the gray, new gray marble looking Siri Siri orb that does

00:20:28 ◼   ► a glowy thing inside it, that will appear floating next to where your pointer

00:20:32 ◼   ► is.

00:20:32 ◼   ► And you're like, what the hell is that?

00:20:33 ◼   ► And you'll move your cursor and it will disappear.

00:20:35 ◼   ► And you'll see it again.

00:20:36 ◼   ► You'll be just using your computer, and then the blob will appear.

00:20:38 ◼   ► You're like, what is that?

00:20:40 ◼   ► It's like the Siri, like, click on this and it will help you write

00:20:43 ◼   ► whatever you're about to write.

00:20:44 ◼   ► But like, you're not even gonna write you haven't even placed the insertion point

00:20:48 ◼   ► yet.

00:20:48 ◼   ► It's just like, hey, is there some text near here that you might possibly

00:20:51 ◼   ► be able to put your insertion point into?

00:20:53 ◼   ► Here's a Siri blob.

00:20:54 ◼   ► It's annoying.

00:20:55 ◼   ► Um, and last episode, uh, we had some feedback about how to supposedly turn

00:20:59 ◼   ► that off, but it was minutes before the show was on the air, and

00:21:01 ◼   ► I hadn't actually tried it.

00:21:02 ◼   ► So now I have a more precise instructions on how to do it, and

00:21:05 ◼   ► I have some results of trying it.

00:21:07 ◼   ► So it is on Golden Gate.

00:21:08 ◼   ► System prefer uh system settings, sorry, screen time, content and privacy, and then when

00:21:13 ◼   ► you go into screen time and then content and privacy, on that screen, there's

00:21:14 ◼   ► an item called Content and Privacy with a toggle switch on it.

00:21:20 ◼   ► You gotta turn that switch on, and then after you turn that switch on,

00:21:24 ◼   ► scroll down on that same page, find the Siri line item, click into that,

00:21:28 ◼   ► and there you will see the thing that says writing assistance, and you want

00:21:31 ◼   ► to turn that switch off.

00:21:33 ◼   ► And I tried this, and it mostly banished the blobs, but I think not

00:21:39 ◼   ► everywhere.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Maybe like if an app was still running when I turn the switch off,

00:21:43 ◼   ► like put it this way I'm seeing fewer blobs, but I'm not convinced that

00:21:47 ◼   ► it turned it off entirely.

00:21:48 ◼   ► But I have tried it, and again, we're only on beta eight, so maybe

00:21:50 ◼   ► it's buggy or whatever.

00:21:51 ◼   ► But I'll keep you updated on this because you may not care about the

00:21:54 ◼   ► Siri blob now, but when you upgrade to Mac OS 27, you're gonna care

00:21:58 ◼   ► about the Siri Blob.

00:21:59 ◼   ► Yeah, they're everywhere.

00:22:00 ◼   ► And in addition to the uh the Siri menu item and context menus.

00:22:04 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, you can't get rid of that.

00:22:06 ◼   ► Oh, geez, it's all over the place.

00:22:08 ◼   ► There's these little Siri blob fix, Marco.

00:22:11 ◼   ► No, not yet.

00:22:11 ◼   ► I haven't.

00:22:12 ◼   ► Well, try it so that we can compare results because like I said, I

00:22:14 ◼   ► think it has mostly banished them, but I think I've still seen the one

00:22:17 ◼   ► or two.

00:22:18 ◼   ► You can't banish the one in the context menus.

00:22:19 ◼   ► I think uh speaking of Gear Rambo from last week, I think uh he

00:22:22 ◼   ► looked into it to see if there was like some private API or private

00:22:25 ◼   ► not private API, but private like internal Apple feature key or something to turn

00:22:29 ◼   ► it off, and he couldn't find one.

00:22:30 ◼   ► So I'm hoping somebody does, or I'm hoping they backtrack on that.

00:22:32 ◼   ► But what we're talking about is that when you pull up a context menu

00:22:35 ◼   ► in Golden Gate, there is like a new bar at the top of the

00:22:39 ◼   ► pop-up context menu for like hey, and you might want to do Siri stuff

00:22:42 ◼   ► here, and maybe I would do, and maybe I don't, but I sure as

00:22:45 ◼   ► hell, don't want to see that on top of every single context menu that

00:22:47 ◼   ► pops up.

00:22:48 ◼   ► Yeah, all right.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Uh John, you are you know, I don't know how to introduce this.

00:22:54 ◼   ► I totally blew screen.

00:22:55 ◼   ► There's something I forgot to say last episode.

00:22:57 ◼   ► Last episode of the Mac Studios were introduced, and I talked about what I

00:22:59 ◼   ► was gonna buy and what I had ended up ordering.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:02 ◼   ► And one thing I just simply forgot to say, which I think is important

00:23:05 ◼   ► to note, is how happy I was that the Mac Studios were introduced last

00:23:11 ◼   ► week or whatever.

00:23:12 ◼   ► Because I fully believed that they weren't going to be introduced until an October

00:23:16 ◼   ► event, and they weren't going to ship until December, and I wouldn't have mine

00:23:19 ◼   ► until 2027.

00:23:20 ◼   ► And so for all my hemming and hawing and getting my tied me over

00:23:23 ◼   ► Mac and all that other stuff, I am extremely happy and relieved that they

00:23:28 ◼   ► announced the new Mac Studio in end of August, beginning of September, and not

00:23:32 ◼   ► at a date where I wouldn't get one until January.

00:23:35 ◼   ► So I just want to do express my gratitude there.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Because that was my that was honestly that was my overriding feeling when these

00:23:40 ◼   ► things were announced.

00:23:41 ◼   ► Like, I cannot believe it.

00:23:42 ◼   ► Like it's it's the first good news I've had of Apple in so long.

00:23:45 ◼   ► Like it's always like, oh, there's more delays and the new series not ready

00:23:48 ◼   ► and RAM costs more and storage course, but it's just a bit bad news

00:23:51 ◼   ► after bad news for like the past year, especially for me because I'm waiting

00:23:54 ◼   ► for a new computer.

00:23:55 ◼   ► Oh, the Mac Pro's cancelled, uh just bad, bad, bad.

00:23:58 ◼   ► Finally, one thing went my way, and I just wanted to acknowledge that a

00:24:01 ◼   ► good thing happened, and I was happy about it.

00:24:03 ◼   ► And I am happy for you.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Let's talk about a bad thing that might happen to me.

00:24:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:24:07 ◼   ► So you had mentioned that you were planning, or you I guess you have

00:24:10 ◼   ► bought a four terabyte SSD, which you're already bursting at the seams of your

00:24:14 ◼   ► existing one, and you had made uh mention that hey, maybe you'll move your

00:24:18 ◼   ► photo library to an external SSD.

00:24:20 ◼   ► Surely that will solve all your problems, right?

00:24:23 ◼   ► Right?

00:24:24 ◼   ► Got a lot of questions from people saying, Can you do that?

00:24:27 ◼   ► Can you put your photo library on an external disk in Apple photos?

00:24:30 ◼   ► Does it allow you to do that?

00:24:32 ◼   ► Uh and so there are some answers.

00:24:34 ◼   ► So, first of all, from Apple, they have a document called uh Text Support

00:24:38 ◼   ► document called Move Your Photos Library to Save Space on your Mac.

00:24:42 ◼   ► And uh the relevant text is make sure that your external storage device, such

00:24:45 ◼   ► as the USB drive or Thunderbolt drive, is formatted for Mac, either APFS format

00:24:44 ◼   ► or Mac OS extended journal format.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And the published date on this is June 16th, 2026.

00:24:54 ◼   ► So it's not an ancient document, okay?

00:24:56 ◼   ► So they tell, and there's more to the document, they tell you here's make

00:24:59 ◼   ► sure you do this, make sure you do that, here's how you do it,

00:25:01 ◼   ► blah blah blah.

00:25:02 ◼   ► So Apple seems to say this is a supported configuration.

00:25:05 ◼   ► Now, Apple says a lot of things, and just because the technote says publish

00:25:08 ◼   ► June 16th, 2026, that could be an eight-year-old tech note that someone fixed a

00:25:11 ◼   ► typo in in June.

00:25:12 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:25:13 ◼   ► Um, but then a lot because lots of people are like, you can't do

00:25:16 ◼   ► that at all.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Other people were like, I tried that and it didn't work.

00:25:18 ◼   ► The most concrete thing I've seen a feedback on this so far is from

00:25:22 ◼   ► Lawrence Feynman who says, I use an external drive for my photos library on

00:25:26 ◼   ► numerous desktop Intel Macs.

00:25:27 ◼   ► It worked okay.

00:25:28 ◼   ► This is no longer the case.

00:25:30 ◼   ► Apple's enhanced spotlight-based photo search only indexes the system photo library when stored on

00:25:35 ◼   ► internal Mac storage.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Non-system libraries in any library on external storage are excluded from indexing.

00:25:40 ◼   ► So this makes some sense to me because we talked about how like Apple

00:25:44 ◼   ► intelligence wouldn't work if you booted Mac OS from an external drive.

00:25:47 ◼   ► Not sensing that I understand the technical reason for it.

00:25:49 ◼   ► We've speculated, but we don't actually know, or I don't know anyway.

00:25:52 ◼   ► Um but with the like the not AI power, but anyway, the the fancier

00:25:58 ◼   ► spotlight search where you can type in like pictures of fences in photos and

00:26:01 ◼   ► it will find you pictures of fences.

00:26:03 ◼   ► Supposedly, if you have your uh photos library on an external drive and it

00:26:07 ◼   ► is your system photos library, you cannot use that search people feature.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Now, this is not a deal breaker to me because I have another computer

00:26:14 ◼   ► two feet away from me that has the photos library on the main internal

00:26:16 ◼   ► drive, and I can do the search there if I really want to.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I can also do the search on my phone where it also works somehow.

00:26:21 ◼   ► If it really doesn't work on one of my photos libraries' external drive, I'm

00:26:26 ◼   ► gonna be annoyed and I'll probably file feedback to say, hey, what the hell?

00:26:28 ◼   ► Make it work.

00:26:29 ◼   ► I don't understand why this would be the case, but it is not a

00:26:29 ◼   ► deal breaker.

00:26:33 ◼   ► Uh otherwise, if it works on an external drive, as Apple's document says it

00:26:36 ◼   ► does, I'll be okay.

00:26:37 ◼   ► And I by the way, I have that external drive, it's sitting on my

00:26:39 ◼   ► desk right now.

00:26:40 ◼   ► I plugged it in and tried it, it works fine.

00:26:42 ◼   ► It's just sitting here waiting for my computer to arrive, hopefully on September 22nd.

00:26:46 ◼   ► I actually have some additional info on this particular topic about photo libraries on

00:26:50 ◼   ► external drives.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Um because it just so happened by coincidence that this past week, I was

00:26:56 ◼   ► finally tired.

00:26:57 ◼   ► So uh on my travel laptop, it has a one terabyte internal drive.

00:27:03 ◼   ► And because I am an I'm an app developer and Xcode keeps, you know,

00:27:07 ◼   ► stomping all over the drive and dropping 80 gig directories everywhere and stuff like

00:27:12 ◼   ► that.

00:27:12 ◼   ► Um I ever since this beta um season with Golden Gate, I I keep

00:27:17 ◼   ► running out of disk space.

00:27:18 ◼   ► And by I have, you know, iCloud photos on there, my photo library doesn't

00:27:21 ◼   ► fit, obviously, but I just have it on optimized storage, and it's just my

00:27:24 ◼   ► travel laptop.

00:27:25 ◼   ► Who cares?

00:27:26 ◼   ► A long time ago, I discovered that if you put your photo library on

00:27:33 ◼   ► a um a size constrained sparse bundle file.

00:27:37 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:27:39 ◼   ► You could you could do what Apple should have done years ago, which is

00:27:43 ◼   ► you could give it a specific size limit.

00:27:46 ◼   ► Because optimized storage does not mean you get to choose the size limit.

00:27:50 ◼   ► It means Apple tries to automatically determine the size limit.

00:27:54 ◼   ► What this means in practice is you're constantly running out of disk space and

00:27:57 ◼   ► you have no control over it.

00:27:59 ◼   ► And so what I I decided, you know, the the modern version of that,

00:28:03 ◼   ► um, that a little bit better than a sparse bundle, is using an additional

00:28:07 ◼   ► APFS volume because APFS allows you to split your internal drive into multiple volumes,

00:28:13 ◼   ► and you could they can be dynamically sized or you can tell one restrict

00:28:14 ◼   ► to this size, um, which by the way I learned that you can't do

00:28:21 ◼   ► after you've created the volume.

00:28:23 ◼   ► You have to delete the entire volume and everything on it and recreate the

00:28:27 ◼   ► entire volume and move everything back to it uh if you actually want to

00:28:31 ◼   ► change the size quota of it, which is ridiculous.

00:28:34 ◼   ► But anyway.

00:28:35 ◼   ► And speaking of speaking of changing sizes, by the way, I was doing the

00:28:38 ◼   ► thing that you described earlier where you make a disk image and put your

00:28:40 ◼   ► photo library on it.

00:28:41 ◼   ► Uh for my uh it's complicated because my wife has the real photo libraries,

00:28:44 ◼   ► that's the one with originals, but I have the same photo library because everything

00:28:47 ◼   ► is shared now.

00:28:48 ◼   ► Anyway, on my personal account I have optimized storage turned on because that's not

00:28:51 ◼   ► the real copies of stuff, even though on the same computer in my wife's

00:28:54 ◼   ► account, there's all the permanent copies.

00:28:55 ◼   ► Anyway, and I was using a disk image and I picked a size for

00:28:58 ◼   ► it.

00:28:59 ◼   ► And I found out what happens.

00:29:00 ◼   ► If you pick a size that photos decides, yeah, that's just not big enough

00:29:03 ◼   ► for me.

00:29:04 ◼   ► Because photos will throw up a thing and say, yeah, I've been using this

00:29:06 ◼   ► disk image, but I've just decided I'm I'm not syncing anymore because there's not

00:29:10 ◼   ► enough room.

00:29:10 ◼   ► I'm like, well, evicts some stuff, man.

00:29:12 ◼   ► It's optimized storage.

00:29:13 ◼   ► It's like, no, I'm just not doing it.

00:29:14 ◼   ► So I had to resize the image, and I can tell you you can

00:29:17 ◼   ► resize a disk image, unlike an APFS volume after the fact.

00:29:20 ◼   ► So I expanded my disk image to be a little bit bigger.

00:29:23 ◼   ► So that's the one one, the one advantage I think of putting your photos

00:29:26 ◼   ► library on a confined disk image is that if and when Photos throws up

00:29:29 ◼   ► his hands and says, no, it's too small, I can't do anything anymore, you

00:29:31 ◼   ► can expand it to give more breathing room.

00:29:33 ◼   ► Because like Marco said, if you just give it unlimited space, it will fill

00:29:36 ◼   ► your entire drive and you have no space for anything.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Yeah, and and there's all these features in Mac OS that are that have

00:29:41 ◼   ► like you know, purgeable disk space that try to be automatic.

00:29:45 ◼   ► And when you need space, we'll re we'll reclaim it for you.

00:29:48 ◼   ► They don't work at all.

00:29:50 ◼   ► Like I they are awful.

00:29:52 ◼   ► Every every one of those features fails in multiple ways.

00:29:56 ◼   ► Like the iCloud drive ones or you know, store your desktop and documents on

00:29:59 ◼   ► iCloud drive.

00:29:59 ◼   ► All that means is you will always be out of disk space.

00:30:04 ◼   ► And also, none of the files you create will ever actually be there, including

00:30:07 ◼   ► ones that you just created or were just working with.

00:30:11 ◼   ► Like every one of those feats, like all those features are better off not

00:30:14 ◼   ► being used or being somehow worked around in other ways.

00:30:16 ◼   ► Um but anyway, this feature in particular of you can put your photo library

00:30:21 ◼   ► on another AP of S volume that is size limited.

00:30:24 ◼   ► So I did that.

00:30:25 ◼   ► I made it, I gave it a 128 gig volume out of my terabyte

00:30:29 ◼   ► because it was it was well into the 300s before that.

00:30:32 ◼   ► I was like, I don't need that much on here.

00:30:35 ◼   ► And so anyway, 128Ks I can say is enough for it to sync.

00:30:40 ◼   ► It is fine, it is syncing just fine.

00:30:42 ◼   ► However, this library isn't searchable in spotlight due to its location.

00:30:47 ◼   ► So even an even another volume on your internal SSD, it won't do it

00:30:54 ◼   ► even then.

00:30:55 ◼   ► So, John, A, this is our moment to be loud and to try to

00:31:00 ◼   ► convince them otherwise.

00:31:01 ◼   ► But B, John, this is your next app.

00:31:05 ◼   ► Someone's already make that.

00:31:06 ◼   ► I think they have like isn't the Iris app uh index your photo library?

00:31:09 ◼   ► No, that's not running.

00:31:11 ◼   ► It's an app.

00:31:11 ◼   ► I I paid for it a while ago and I've already forgotten the name

00:31:13 ◼   ► for it, but I think it's called Iris.

00:31:15 ◼   ► I will look into it.

00:31:15 ◼   ► It is when I'm in this situation, I have a look for solutions.

00:31:18 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:31:18 ◼   ► That's not your app.

00:31:19 ◼   ► Your next app is fooling the system photo library into thinking it's talking to

00:31:24 ◼   ► its own volume and it's actually being proxied off some to some other drive.

00:31:29 ◼   ► That's that's such a you app.

00:31:32 ◼   ► It's about file systems, it's about saving disk space.

00:31:35 ◼   ► Like that's so that's that's right in your wheelhouse.

00:31:38 ◼   ► And photos, you love photos.

00:31:40 ◼   ► I think somebody also did that.

00:31:41 ◼   ► Didn't we talk about that when we were talking about booting uh macOS from

00:31:45 ◼   ► an external drive and convincing someone did a hack to convince Mac OS that

00:31:49 ◼   ► the your external drive is really an internal drive, and I said I didn't

00:31:52 ◼   ► want to need to go anywhere near that.

00:31:53 ◼   ► And that wasn't even something I wrote.

00:31:55 ◼   ► So that's a little bit too sketchy for me.

00:31:57 ◼   ► Oh, I I know there's no way you would do this, but it would

00:31:59 ◼   ► be so amazing if you did.

00:32:00 ◼   ► Like that's and it and it it fits it fits your your, you know,

00:32:05 ◼   ► all of your attributes in so many ways.

00:32:06 ◼   ► Like it is super nerdy.

00:32:08 ◼   ► It has to do with these low-level like file system access things that nobody

00:32:12 ◼   ► would trust anyone else but you to do correctly.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Uh you would be incredibly stressed out about it all the time, and you

00:32:17 ◼   ► would be incredibly careful.

00:32:19 ◼   ► I don't trust myself to do that correctly.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:21 ◼   ► Um, but and and it would it would have a relatively small market that

00:32:25 ◼   ► would be very difficult to reach, but it would be high value to those

00:32:30 ◼   ► people who it's for.

00:32:31 ◼   ► I'm more likely to just spend my time uh filing feedbacks and complaining about

00:32:34 ◼   ► it on the show until it gets fixed a decade from now.

00:32:37 ◼   ► Plus, think about like it talk about a growth business right now.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Something that saves major internal SSD.

00:32:45 ◼   ► I already made it up to saves disk space.

00:32:47 ◼   ► That's what you should have done.

00:32:47 ◼   ► You should have run hyperspace on your one terabyte drive when you're running out

00:32:50 ◼   ► of space.

00:32:51 ◼   ► That's not gonna that believe me, that's not gonna save me from a 300

00:32:53 ◼   ► gig photo library.

00:32:54 ◼   ► You don't know until you try it.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Run it.

00:32:56 ◼   ► All right, I'll run it now.

00:32:58 ◼   ► Make sure you uh follow, follow my tips for finding more space.

00:33:00 ◼   ► If you don't find a lot, it shows a find more link that I

00:33:02 ◼   ► hope people click on.

00:33:03 ◼   ► I'm sure nobody has ever seen that link.

00:33:05 ◼   ► No.

00:33:06 ◼   ► No, because if it does I I forget what it is, but I set

00:33:08 ◼   ► a threshold and like it doesn't seem like it finds a lot of savings,

00:33:10 ◼   ► it has some tips for finding more, which is basically uh allow it to

00:33:13 ◼   ► scan more places and allow it to to uh find to scan all file

00:33:16 ◼   ► types.

00:33:17 ◼   ► Oh, I can't scan.

00:33:17 ◼   ► Uh volume is owned by another user.

00:33:19 ◼   ► The volume slash is owned by another user.

00:33:21 ◼   ► You can scan it, but it's just telling you you're not gonna be able

00:33:24 ◼   ► to uh why can't I scan my Macintosh HD, John?

00:33:29 ◼   ► Should I I pick a different?

00:33:28 ◼   ► Should I just do my home directory?

00:33:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:33 ◼   ► I mean, you didn't read the message.

00:33:35 ◼   ► No one reads dialogue boxes.

00:33:36 ◼   ► Dialogue box doesn't say you can't scan.

00:33:37 ◼   ► It says, hey, I'm just letting you know the directory you picked is owned

00:33:40 ◼   ► by another user because it is slash is on by root or whatever.

00:33:43 ◼   ► Uh and so anything I find in there that's not owned by you, I

00:33:46 ◼   ► won't be able to reclaim.

00:33:47 ◼   ► But obviously it will find things that are owned by you, and mostly they're

00:33:49 ◼   ► in your home directory.

00:33:50 ◼   ► So yeah, pick your home directory.

00:33:51 ◼   ► You save me 600 megs.

00:33:53 ◼   ► Well, check your settings now.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Are you are you looking at all file types?

00:33:56 ◼   ► Do you have a minimum file size set?

00:33:57 ◼   ► Do you have all the switches turned on to scan photo libraries, scan libraries,

00:34:00 ◼   ► all that stuff?

00:34:01 ◼   ► You know, I think maybe you should just drive your computer over to John's

00:34:04 ◼   ► house.

00:34:04 ◼   ► Just turn just there's like two setting screens.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Just flip all the switches.

00:34:08 ◼   ► Flip flip flip flip.

00:34:09 ◼   ► All right, yeah, looking inside packages, allow photos, allow cloud, allow live.

00:34:14 ◼   ► And uh and do the file types thing in the other screen where you

00:34:17 ◼   ► say allow all file types.

00:34:18 ◼   ► Allow fun.

00:34:20 ◼   ► Yes, you want that.

00:34:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:34:24 ◼   ► I should I should have put a uh telemetry on how many people turn

00:34:27 ◼   ► that off.

00:34:28 ◼   ► Yeah, you probably should have to be honest.

00:34:30 ◼   ► All right, maybe maybe we move on, or are we still gonna Marco scan

00:34:34 ◼   ► is gonna take a while once he flips all those switches?

00:34:36 ◼   ► All right, let's see.

00:34:37 ◼   ► Uh AMX and SME.

00:34:39 ◼   ► So ARMs, I'm sorry, this is from Shaq Ron.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Apple's ARM architectural license requires that any extensions they create to the ISA be

00:34:46 ◼   ► submitted for standardization and that they transition to the standard when released.

00:34:49 ◼   ► SME is the ARM standardized version of AMX.

00:34:52 ◼   ► I didn't have any way to confirm this, but I'll take Shakron's word for

00:34:55 ◼   ► it.

00:34:55 ◼   ► I didn't make sense.

00:34:56 ◼   ► Uh it explains the facts before us, which is they came out with AMX

00:35:00 ◼   ► and then eventually AMX was sunset in exchange for SME, and maybe that's part

00:35:03 ◼   ► of the deal of their license that you can make up all sorts of

00:35:05 ◼   ► weird extensions, but you have to work to get them standardized, and when they

00:35:08 ◼   ► are, you gotta switch to the standard.

00:35:09 ◼   ► And that seems like something ARM would put in their contracts because they don't

00:35:12 ◼   ► want a sort of uh forking and bifurcation of their instruction set as everyone

00:35:16 ◼   ► adds their own custom instructions.

00:35:18 ◼   ► All right, I wanted to quickly uh re-enter Vision Pro corner.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Uh last this past Friday, Apple did their first Friday night baseball that had

00:35:27 ◼   ► immersive video.

00:35:28 ◼   ► Uh so you could put on your Vision Pro and you could be in

00:35:32 ◼   ► Yankee Stadium.

00:35:32 ◼   ► And I'm not here to pass judgment on the Yankees or the Red Sox.

00:35:35 ◼   ► Uh, I'm not much of a baseball person myself, but I wanted to at

00:35:39 ◼   ► least experience what this was all about.

00:35:41 ◼   ► Uh, I will say there's an excellent episode of dithering about this.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Can I just say, how did Ben Thompson not watch this?

00:35:48 ◼   ► Don't even get me started.

00:35:48 ◼   ► Oh, I haven't heard that dithering episode.

00:35:50 ◼   ► He didn't even watch it.

00:35:51 ◼   ► No.

00:35:51 ◼   ► No, but he he was basically like, yeah, this means I was right.

00:35:54 ◼   ► I don't even need to watch it.

00:35:55 ◼   ► Like, yes, you definitely need to watch it.

00:35:57 ◼   ► You absolutely do.

00:35:58 ◼   ► This is what you've been talking about for years.

00:36:01 ◼   ► I don't think Ben listens to our show, but he needs to watch it.

00:36:03 ◼   ► And he probably is right.

00:36:05 ◼   ► Like, but of all people, that's that's like if Apple released a new Mac

00:36:09 ◼   ► Pro and John's like, I don't need to buy it.

00:36:11 ◼   ► Meh.

00:36:13 ◼   ► Yeah, so uh to give a little bit more context.

00:36:16 ◼   ► So there have been other immersive things, many of them.

00:36:18 ◼   ► And Marco was on the uh journey with me of watching most of them,

00:36:22 ◼   ► at least at first, and then Marco kind of gave up on it.

00:36:25 ◼   ► And I've been continuing with it.

00:36:27 ◼   ► And one of the things that Marco and Ben, Ben more than Marco, but

00:36:30 ◼   ► both of them seem to think very strongly, is that when you're in an

00:36:34 ◼   ► immersive environment, and to recap, that means you can twist your head and your

00:36:38 ◼   ► perspective will change, right?

00:36:40 ◼   ► Well, Ben especially seemed to think that you should really should not be cutting

00:36:44 ◼   ► to different cameras barely ever.

00:36:46 ◼   ► And I think Marco, you were closer to Ben's perspective, maybe not quite as

00:36:49 ◼   ► hardliner.

00:36:50 ◼   ► No, I was I was totally with him in the in that, like, you

00:36:52 ◼   ► know, like the what Apple kept producing and and releasing on the Vision Pro

00:36:56 ◼   ► is like a a lot of things that had a bunch of quick cuts.

00:36:59 ◼   ► And so you because you were like in the environment, like you're looking at

00:36:59 ◼   ► 180 degree field of view video that in 3D, so you really feel like

00:37:07 ◼   ► you are there, and you just kept getting teleported around almost, and it was

00:37:11 ◼   ► very disorienting and hard to follow stuff.

00:37:13 ◼   ► And so what Ben was saying, and I believe I've made the same case

00:37:16 ◼   ► was like just have a fixed camera.

00:37:19 ◼   ► Like go like have a fixed camera in a good seat at an event,

00:37:23 ◼   ► whether it's uh a sporting event or a concert or whatever, and just sit

00:37:28 ◼   ► you there and don't even have like announcers at like just it make it

00:37:32 ◼   ► just put you in the event in 3D, hearing the audio of being there,

00:37:38 ◼   ► looking from a fixed position, and that will and that simulates the feeling of

00:37:42 ◼   ► being there, which is amazing.

00:37:43 ◼   ► And that's something that only something like the Vision Pro can do.

00:37:46 ◼   ► Like you can't get that on a you know a big TV screen, you

00:37:50 ◼   ► can't get that on YouTube, like you can only get that from the Vision

00:37:55 ◼   ► Pro, which is a great way in theory to lay some groundwork that might

00:37:59 ◼   ► sell some Vision Pros someday.

00:38:02 ◼   ► Yeah, and so uh with the Yankees thing, uh first thing I wanted to

00:38:06 ◼   ► quickly call your attention to is that they have uh in F1 speak, they

00:38:11 ◼   ► have a race in 30, which is to say they have a 10-minute recap

00:38:14 ◼   ► of the game.

00:38:15 ◼   ► I don't personally have any interest in watching a three-hour baseball game, particularly with

00:38:18 ◼   ► the Vision Pro on my face, uh, but they do have a 10-minute version,

00:38:21 ◼   ► which I very much recommend.

00:38:23 ◼   ► Um, I think that that's gives you basically the gist of it.

00:38:27 ◼   ► I can also say that at one point, uh, spoilers for a game, a

00:38:30 ◼   ► baseball game from a week and a half or a half a week ago,

00:38:33 ◼   ► uh, there was a home run at about an hour and 10 minutes into

00:38:35 ◼   ► the broadcast.

00:38:36 ◼   ► So if you wanted to just see something exciting happen, you can see that.

00:38:39 ◼   ► But what was interesting about the broadcast was that generally speaking, from what I

00:38:42 ◼   ► saw of it, when one team was batting, you were positioned basically right in

00:38:46 ◼   ► front of their dugout.

00:38:44 ◼   ► And so you have a view of one side of the field.

00:38:50 ◼   ► But and I liked that a lot, but I will say when there were

00:38:53 ◼   ► deep balls into outfield, maybe it's just my own eyes, but it was hard

00:38:57 ◼   ► to see where they went.

00:38:59 ◼   ► Now, what was nice was Apple had like a floating jumbotron and like stats

00:39:03 ◼   ► board thing kind of up above the field so you could tune into the

00:39:07 ◼   ► 2D broadcast as something was happening in the distance.

00:39:10 ◼   ► Overall, I did very much like this.

00:39:12 ◼   ► And I mostly agree that in this context for sports, I mostly agree with

00:39:18 ◼   ► Ben and Marco that cutting less frequently is the correct approach.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Now I think for different sports and different fields and different uh arenas, cuts

00:39:28 ◼   ► make more or less sense.

00:39:30 ◼   ► So when there's a you know, pop fly into the outfield, maybe it does

00:39:33 ◼   ► make sense to cut to an outfield camera.

00:39:36 ◼   ► And they would do that, you know, occasionally for replays.

00:39:38 ◼   ► But even during the the meat of the game, it would be neat to

00:39:41 ◼   ► see that, I think.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Uh whereas I think in the basketball presentations, it makes a lot more sense

00:39:46 ◼   ► to me to just park that camera somewhere, preferably mid-court and don't freaking touch

00:39:51 ◼   ► it unless you're doing like a replay or something.

00:39:52 ◼   ► Well, we talked about this one when we're when I still had the your

00:39:54 ◼   ► vision pro here and I watched that basketball game, and it's the same problem

00:39:57 ◼   ► you just identified, and everyone who's talked about this game has identified, which is

00:40:00 ◼   ► if you have a stationary camera uh and you see that stationary, you see

00:40:04 ◼   ► the video that stationary camera is getting in your headset, uh, you are uh

00:40:08 ◼   ► subject to the uh decreased resolution as you move towards the edges because that's

00:40:14 ◼   ► just the way it is.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Uh what you would want to do with current tech is you would want

00:40:18 ◼   ► to have a camera, like not just one camera with like a big fish

00:40:21 ◼   ► eye lens on it, but like a set of cameras that covers whatever the

00:40:25 ◼   ► field of view is gonna be, even if it's 180 degrees, but covers it

00:40:28 ◼   ► all at the maximum center resolution of the vision pro and then when you

00:40:32 ◼   ► turn your head in the vision pro rather than you just looking at the

00:40:36 ◼   ► fuzzy edge of the single capture from the camera what you'd be looking at

00:40:39 ◼   ► is the highest resolution center of whatever camera was facing in that direction you

00:40:43 ◼   ► know what I mean so your experience as a user would same vision pro

00:40:47 ◼   ► the same hardware no different hardware but what you're saying is like the video

00:40:51 ◼   ► signal that is coming to you is not a single video signal that's stretched

00:40:54 ◼   ► out across your field of view because when they do that when they stretch

00:40:57 ◼   ► that across your field of view when you turn your head you're looking at

00:41:00 ◼   ► the the highest resolution part of those sensors the highest resolution part of your

00:41:03 ◼   ► eyes is looking at the lowest resolution part of the video and that is

00:41:07 ◼   ► the weakness for balls in the outfield and I was always saying with the

00:41:09 ◼   ► basketball game oh yeah the the tip off at half court you got a

00:41:14 ◼   ► great view of that but the baskets are both in the lowest resolution part

00:41:17 ◼   ► of the field of view because they just have single camera.

00:41:20 ◼   ► So no technology change on the viewing side same old vision pro, same field

00:41:24 ◼   ► division but on the on the recording side they need multiple cameras that can

00:41:29 ◼   ► capture the entire field of view in full resolution and then they do basically

00:41:32 ◼   ► do foveated streaming kind of where you like turn your head and it says

00:41:35 ◼   ► oh you're looking over here now we're gonna give you camera four from that

00:41:39 ◼   ► same tripod that has the full resolution view of the outfield so when you

00:41:43 ◼   ► look at the outfield suddenly you can see the ball when you look back

00:41:45 ◼   ► to the home plate in your peripheral vision the ball is fuzzy or invisible

00:41:48 ◼   ► you know what I mean but that's you know that's we don't have that

00:41:51 ◼   ► yet and I know it's there's not a lot of cost to justify it

00:41:54 ◼   ► but I'm saying like with current technology that's what they need to do to

00:41:57 ◼   ► make this experience better.

00:41:58 ◼   ► And as I said when I was talking about the basketball game and I

00:42:00 ◼   ► mentioned football games, sport dependency is is a thing because although Ben wants is

00:42:06 ◼   ► because he loved live sports, he wants the experience of doing live sports.

00:42:08 ◼   ► And lots of people like live sports and they want that experience.

00:42:11 ◼   ► But I'm not even sure most people would prefer live sports, especially for something

00:42:15 ◼   ► like the NFL, because you just get such better view on television than you're

00:42:18 ◼   ► if you're in the nosebleed seats at a stadium.

00:42:20 ◼   ► And I know it's a whole experience and the smell and the people and

00:42:22 ◼   ► whatever, but you're only getting some of that in a headset.

00:42:24 ◼   ► So while being like courtside in an NBA game may be an unparalleled way

00:42:29 ◼   ► to watch a basketball game, being in the nosebleeds at an NFL game is

00:42:32 ◼   ► not better than watching it on TV if you really care about what's happening

00:42:35 ◼   ► in the game, just because the field is so big and you're so far

00:42:37 ◼   ► away from it.

00:42:38 ◼   ► So there's definitely a place for this.

00:42:40 ◼   ► But my my stance on what Ben wants is you want the experience of

00:42:44 ◼   ► live sports, and so do a lot of other people, and they should provide

00:42:46 ◼   ► that, but that's not the thing that every single person wants.

00:42:49 ◼   ► So I think Apple or whoever still has to figure out okay, when when

00:42:54 ◼   ► for the people who don't want a live sports experience, what do we give

00:42:57 ◼   ► them?

00:42:57 ◼   ► Um and for the live sports things, like you should uh talk about this,

00:43:00 ◼   ► Casey, how you felt about it.

00:43:01 ◼   ► They have like a screen floating in the air over the outfield.

00:43:04 ◼   ► Like, can you imagine if you could, for example, look to the outfield and

00:43:08 ◼   ► then do a pinch gesture with your hand to magically zoom in on what

00:43:10 ◼   ► you want to look at and suddenly suddenly now you have a high-res view

00:43:14 ◼   ► of the right fielder?

00:43:15 ◼   ► Nobody else does, but you do.

00:43:16 ◼   ► Like that's you know, the technology is there to do much cooler things than

00:43:20 ◼   ► what they have here.

00:43:21 ◼   ► And same thing with the Jumbotron.

00:43:22 ◼   ► Can you move it around?

00:43:23 ◼   ► Can you have stats on the side, like the F1 app?

00:43:25 ◼   ► But like there's fertile ground for doing cool things here.

00:43:28 ◼   ► It's just we're really at the the baby stages of all this.

00:43:32 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think that there's like you said, a lot of room for

00:43:34 ◼   ► improvements.

00:43:35 ◼   ► Um, I probably would have repositioned the jumbotron.

00:43:38 ◼   ► I mean, not to say that it needed to be repositioned, but just to

00:43:41 ◼   ► make it a little more comfortable for me.

00:43:42 ◼   ► Isn't it annoying that you couldn't move it though?

00:43:43 ◼   ► Like what the hell?

00:43:44 ◼   ► I was I wouldn't say go so far as to say annoying, it was

00:43:47 ◼   ► lightly off-putting.

00:43:48 ◼   ► Um, but I think what you're describing, and what you make a great point

00:43:51 ◼   ► is you ever seen the um, I want to say it's called like Matterport

00:43:55 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:43:56 ◼   ► It's these 3D like walkthroughs for like real estate where they have these like

00:43:59 ◼   ► circles where you can click on that circle and it'll show you a different

00:44:04 ◼   ► perspective at the same time.

00:44:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:06 ◼   ► Yes, yes, exactly.

00:44:07 ◼   ► Exactly right.

00:44:08 ◼   ► Uh street.

00:44:08 ◼   ► But anyways, yeah, they need something like that for this, you know, where you

00:44:13 ◼   ► can pinch to your pinch to effectively click, if you will, on the outfield,

00:44:17 ◼   ► and it'll to your point, it'll zoom you into the outfield.

00:44:19 ◼   ► But no, I think this was really, really good.

00:44:21 ◼   ► I think they are making steps in the right direction.

00:44:24 ◼   ► I can absolutely see that if these were teams I really cared about, this

00:44:29 ◼   ► would have been an amazing experience.

00:44:31 ◼   ► And you do kind of feel like you're there.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I mean, you're it would for good and for better and for worse.

00:44:36 ◼   ► You see all the uh you see over your shoulder, like all of the

00:44:39 ◼   ► uh sunflower shells getting spit onto the grass from the dugout.

00:44:44 ◼   ► And you see the people walking in and out of the dugout, and you

00:44:46 ◼   ► see the the lights in Yankee Stadium so much clearer than when you would

00:44:50 ◼   ► when what you would over a TV broadcast.

00:44:52 ◼   ► Like, as someone who really enjoys live sports, this is this is extremely cool.

00:44:55 ◼   ► And on dithering, they made the interesting point.

00:44:57 ◼   ► I think they called it like they didn't they had a funny name for

00:44:59 ◼   ► it that wasn't like FaceTime, it was like ShareTime or something like that, where

00:45:02 ◼   ► they were saying how cool would it be if, you know, say me and

00:45:05 ◼   ► John could sit courtside at say the US Open or something like that and

00:45:09 ◼   ► see our uh avatars, I forget what they call them now, um, but our

00:45:13 ◼   ► our fake people, you know, as adjacent to each other, so we could hear

00:45:17 ◼   ► each other and talk to each other, but we're still watching the same live

00:45:20 ◼   ► event in immersive video.

00:45:22 ◼   ► And that that was the point they were making on dithering, and I could

00:45:24 ◼   ► not agree more.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Uh it was still incredibly impressive.

00:45:27 ◼   ► Again, I was watching it on replay, but this was available live, which is

00:45:30 ◼   ► extremely cool.

00:45:31 ◼   ► And I really hope they do more with this and try new experiments and

00:45:34 ◼   ► continue with this.

00:45:35 ◼   ► I know we got some news recently.

00:45:37 ◼   ► We'll talk about it and probably overtime, but we've gotten some news recently that

00:45:40 ◼   ► a lot of stuff uh with Vision Pro is in a little bit of

00:45:43 ◼   ► turmoil potentially, but man, uh I don't put the Vision Pro on often.

00:45:44 ◼   ► I know I make this speech every time.

00:45:48 ◼   ► I don't put the Vision Pro on often, but every time I do, I'm

00:45:51 ◼   ► like, damn, this is the future.

00:45:53 ◼   ► It's just heavy.

00:45:55 ◼   ► And low resolution and expensive and has no software.

00:45:59 ◼   ► I mean, that's the thing.

00:45:59 ◼   ► Like I I think it it would be wise for Apple to keep leaning

00:46:03 ◼   ► into things like this.

00:46:05 ◼   ► Because what, you know, it's very, very clear that the market for this kind

00:46:09 ◼   ► of thing in software is basically only specialized industrial and and uh enterprise applications.

00:46:17 ◼   ► Like and and that is a market for sure.

00:46:19 ◼   ► Like you can see like the history of, you know, the Microsoft had the

00:46:21 ◼   ► HoloLens.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Like there is a market for like specialty applications of this.

00:46:27 ◼   ► That's not really anything Apple ever caters to in their other product lines.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Like, and and I think they're not really well suited to that market.

00:46:33 ◼   ► Um, that's much more of a Microsoft market, and even Microsoft ended up canning

00:46:37 ◼   ► HoloLens because it wasn't it wasn't like a profitable enough market for them.

00:46:40 ◼   ► But if the Vision Pro is going to succeed in software, it's in those

00:46:45 ◼   ► areas.

00:46:46 ◼   ► It's not gonna be general purpose computing.

00:46:48 ◼   ► However, there's another way this product can succeed.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Uh well, there's two.

00:46:53 ◼   ► There's games, which Meta pretty much dominates, and I don't think Apple is would

00:46:57 ◼   ► ever make a product that would compete with games for lots of reasons.

00:47:00 ◼   ► Um, and the other one is content.

00:47:02 ◼   ► And like that's that's the other, like if you want to get consumers to

00:47:06 ◼   ► buy this who aren't like performing specialized surgery, like through you know, like just

00:47:12 ◼   ► regular consumers to buy a a VR headset, like a high-end VR headset.

00:47:17 ◼   ► That's gonna be content plays like this.

00:47:20 ◼   ► It's gonna be things like live sports, concerts, theater, like you know, d live

00:47:26 ◼   ► experiences, live spectacles, and sports, probably the biggest one.

00:47:29 ◼   ► And yeah, as as we're saying, there are some challenges.

00:47:33 ◼   ► Like I I think you're you're both right that the resolution of both the

00:47:38 ◼   ► lenses and the and the screens and the video itself does not lend itself

00:47:43 ◼   ► well to sports where you need to see fine details across wide fields of

00:47:48 ◼   ► view, like baseball.

00:47:49 ◼   ► Um, so that that does kind of make sense.

00:47:53 ◼   ► That you know that that's that's a bit of a problem.

00:47:55 ◼   ► Uh, basketball is better, as you were saying, even though despite the fact, you

00:47:59 ◼   ► know, the that the the baskets themselves, which kind of an important part of

00:48:02 ◼   ► the game, uh, are uh are kind of blurry on the edges there.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Um, and there's ways you can make this a little bit better.

00:48:07 ◼   ► Like, for instance, sit a little further back.

00:48:09 ◼   ► Like, that's that for many of these sports, that's actually it's like it's less

00:48:13 ◼   ► of a wow factor, but it's actually a better overall experience.

00:48:18 ◼   ► In the same way that like you don't usually want to sit in the

00:48:20 ◼   ► front row of a movie theater either.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Like the the actual best experience of a movie theater is not in the

00:48:24 ◼   ► front row.

00:48:25 ◼   ► Um I think there's a lot here, there's a lot of potential here, but

00:48:31 ◼   ► I also think it's very obvious that we are like 10 years too early

00:48:34 ◼   ► for it.

00:48:35 ◼   ► That the the screens are just not high resolution enough, the video feeds are

00:48:40 ◼   ► just not high resolution enough, the hardware, the rest of the hardware to support

00:48:45 ◼   ► it is still big and heavy and has terrible battery life, and like we

00:48:49 ◼   ► are just 10 years too early.

00:48:52 ◼   ► And I don't know how we're gonna get from here to it being good,

00:48:57 ◼   ► because I don't see how it's worth anybody continuing this product line, but but

00:49:02 ◼   ► if it gets good, it's gonna be a ways off.

00:49:05 ◼   ► And I think this shows that it can be good.

00:49:08 ◼   ► The the potential exists, but we're just not there.

00:49:12 ◼   ► Speaking of sitting in the front row of movie theaters, did either of you

00:49:15 ◼   ► go to see the Odyssey and IMAX?

00:49:18 ◼   ► I haven't seen it at all.

00:49:19 ◼   ► Of course I haven't seen it.

00:49:20 ◼   ► Oh, by the way, real-time follow-up 30 gigs, John.

00:49:22 ◼   ► So I went from 600 megs to 30 gigs of reclaimed space from hyperspace.

00:49:26 ◼   ► And I wonder why why.

00:49:28 ◼   ► First of all, that that's not enough, but I appreciate it anyway.

00:49:31 ◼   ► Why does your default mode suck so badly compared to the everything on mode?

00:49:37 ◼   ► I've been conservative, being safe.

00:49:39 ◼   ► And also uh the the semi-psychological part of it.

00:49:42 ◼   ► So obviously the conservatism is just like look, don't go wandering through people's library

00:49:45 ◼   ► folders and photos folders because if you screw them up, people will be mad.

00:49:48 ◼   ► So be conservative to begin with.

00:49:49 ◼   ► And if again, I have the thing where if you don't find a lot,

00:49:52 ◼   ► there's the little find more thing.

00:49:54 ◼   ► And the second aspect of it is people do feel kind of good about

00:49:58 ◼   ► themselves when they like tweak an app to make it perform better.

00:50:00 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:50:01 ◼   ► Like now they go into settings and they flip a couple switches and they

00:50:04 ◼   ► make decisions about do I want to search my photos library or do I

00:50:06 ◼   ► want to do this?

00:50:07 ◼   ► It makes them feel more like a power user.

00:50:09 ◼   ► So it's those two things combined.

00:50:10 ◼   ► They hit the Nas.

00:50:11 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:50:12 ◼   ► Anyway, um the reason I bring up the IMAX thing and Odyssey and the

00:50:16 ◼   ► Odyssey because I did I did go see it um eventually in the uh

00:50:20 ◼   ► the one 4K laser IMAX projector that's in New England, um, which was a

00:50:24 ◼   ► bit of a drive for me.

00:50:26 ◼   ► But before I went to it, because I'm seeing it late, I saw it

00:50:29 ◼   ► like uh I don't know, like last week or whatever.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Um the two people I know who uh saw it both told me it

00:50:36 ◼   ► was so loud.

00:50:37 ◼   ► So you know what I did when I went to the movie?

00:50:39 ◼   ► I brought earplugs with me.

00:50:42 ◼   ► It's the first time wearing earplugs in a movie theater, and let me tell

00:50:45 ◼   ► you, it was really loud.

00:50:46 ◼   ► And this stupid IMAX doesn't do like assigned seating.

00:50:50 ◼   ► It's like the first movie I've gone to without a signed seating in forever.

00:50:52 ◼   ► So I had to just like get there early and like fight with people

00:50:54 ◼   ► to get a seat, and so I was a little bit closer than I

00:50:57 ◼   ► wanted to, but man, was it loud!

00:50:59 ◼   ► Like with the earplugs in, I felt like it was loud.

00:51:02 ◼   ► So anyway, gracious.

00:51:05 ◼   ► We are sponsored this episode by Zoc Doc.

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00:52:44 ◼   ► The Tim Cook Exit Interview.

00:52:46 ◼   ► Uh, we already did it.

00:52:44 ◼   ► We did it in episode 688 entitled A Company Man.

00:52:50 ◼   ► Starts at about an hour and eight minutes.

00:52:52 ◼   ► Uh, we've also talked about it in many episodes before.

00:52:54 ◼   ► And since then, we'll put a link to the sh in the show notes

00:52:57 ◼   ► to the episode on our website, to the episode in Overcast with a timestamp

00:53:00 ◼   ► link.

00:53:01 ◼   ► Uh go check that out if you're interested.

00:53:02 ◼   ► And as I said last week, uh Tim Cook has not done anything in

00:53:05 ◼   ► between then and now that's worth talking about other than uh raising uh prices

00:53:10 ◼   ► of a couple of the uh services on his way out the door.

00:53:13 ◼   ► All right, and speaking of people on their way out the door, uh Phil

00:53:16 ◼   ► Schiller, former ATP guest, Phil Schiller, uh, has apparently stepped down from his role

00:53:22 ◼   ► leading the app store and product events.

00:53:24 ◼   ► Sorry, I'm reading from Mark Erman.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Schiller was Apple's senior vice president of marketing until leaving that job in 2020.

00:53:30 ◼   ► While he is dropping his last two major responsibilities, Schiller's remaining at the company

00:53:33 ◼   ► with his Apple Fellow title and told employees he'll be working on unspecified initiatives.

00:53:37 ◼   ► Emma Roth at the Verge writes, Schiller initially joined Apple in 1980 eighty-seven.

00:53:41 ◼   ► Marco and I were five, and became the company's head of marketing in 1997

00:53:46 ◼   ► when we were 15.

00:53:47 ◼   ► He helped launch the App Store alongside Steve Jobs in 2008, but only started

00:53:51 ◼   ► heading up the app store in 2015.

00:53:53 ◼   ► Over the years, Schiller has played a role in the development of many of

00:53:55 ◼   ► Apple's products, including the phone, iPad, uh, and Max, and has presented several of

00:54:00 ◼   ► them at the company's launch events.

00:54:01 ◼   ► In recent years, Schiller has started stepping away from some of these responsibilities as

00:54:05 ◼   ► he relinquished his role as senior vice president of marketing to Greg Joswiak in

00:54:08 ◼   ► 2020.

00:54:09 ◼   ► This is the longest goodbye ever.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Really, he's just slowly working his way off campus.

00:54:17 ◼   ► One job responsibility at a time, but never actually leaving.

00:54:22 ◼   ► Not that I'm in a hurry for him to leave, but man, can you

00:54:25 ◼   ► just keep dropping responsibilities and keep recollecting your paycheck?

00:54:28 ◼   ► I should have done this when I had a job, right?

00:54:29 ◼   ► I I think this is actually a possibly very big deal.

00:54:35 ◼   ► So, first of all, you know, Phil Schiller is the oldest of old school

00:54:39 ◼   ► Apple.

00:54:40 ◼   ► Like he's so hardcore Apple.

00:54:42 ◼   ► He's been there forever.

00:54:44 ◼   ► Uh and I think he is he's one of the last executives left with

00:54:50 ◼   ► that with like the old Apple experience and philosophy and mentality.

00:54:55 ◼   ► And also, but he's been there forever, but there's lots of people who've been

00:54:58 ◼   ► there forever.

00:54:58 ◼   ► He's been there forever at the highest levels of the company, like right next

00:55:02 ◼   ► to Steve Jobs.

00:55:03 ◼   ► Like he wasn't there, you know, like people have been there for a long

00:55:05 ◼   ► time but just have been in low-level positions.

00:55:07 ◼   ► He's been right in the thick of it practically his entire career.

00:55:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:10 ◼   ► And and I like Phil for a lot of reasons.

00:55:12 ◼   ► I mean, you know, he has engaged with me and and with our show

00:55:16 ◼   ► over the years, and so of course that helps.

00:55:18 ◼   ► It's been very meaningful for me in my career.

00:55:20 ◼   ► Like when I first heard from Phil, uh, you know, in response to a

00:55:24 ◼   ► blog post I wrote years ago, and you know, later on, like I like

00:55:28 ◼   ► when I when I wrote uh what the hell was that?

00:55:30 ◼   ► Functional high ground.

00:55:31 ◼   ► There you go.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:31 ◼   ► When I wrote that, um, I actually had a phone call with Phil uh

00:55:35 ◼   ► later that day, and that meant a huge amount to me.

00:55:37 ◼   ► And then the whole elephant in the room thing at the live talk show,

00:55:41 ◼   ► like I basically I I think you know, Phil and I go back a

00:55:44 ◼   ► ways.

00:55:44 ◼   ► And so I I do feel honored at how much uh attention Phil has

00:55:50 ◼   ► given me over the years as somebody who is so important at Apple.

00:55:54 ◼   ► Um and so maybe that colors my view of him a little bit, but

00:55:56 ◼   ► I am very fond of Phil, even though I don't agree with him on

00:55:59 ◼   ► everything.

00:56:00 ◼   ► And I think he like there's a certain culture of California executives.

00:56:07 ◼   ► And California executives, first of all, tend to think I'm a I'm an a-hole.

00:56:12 ◼   ► Um, and maybe they're right.

00:56:14 ◼   ► Um certainly many of our listeners might agree, especially some people on the Reddit's,

00:56:18 ◼   ► I'm sure.

00:56:19 ◼   ► But um there's like there's like a California attitude of being maybe like indirect,

00:56:25 ◼   ► insincere, um, you kind of can't tell what they think of you.

00:56:30 ◼   ► Phil is not that.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Phil is East Coast.

00:56:34 ◼   ► You can always pretty much tell what he thinks of you.

00:56:37 ◼   ► He I think is pretty direct and pretty honest.

00:56:40 ◼   ► And that's something that I again I I don't get a lot of that

00:56:45 ◼   ► from a lot of the Apple people, because most of them are you know,

00:56:49 ◼   ► more West Coast culture, and that's just the West Coast culture does not really

00:56:52 ◼   ► understand the East Coast culture and vice versa uh as well as it might

00:56:56 ◼   ► seem, just despite being in the same country.

00:56:58 ◼   ► And because Phil is East Coast, uh I think I've always gotten along well

00:57:03 ◼   ► with him and understood him, I think a little bit better than than you

00:57:07 ◼   ► know the other executives.

00:57:08 ◼   ► Phil is an honest straight shooter, and he cares a lot about the product.

00:57:15 ◼   ► And when he was head of marketing, I don't know how much involvement he

00:57:17 ◼   ► has now, but when he was head of marketing, he really advocated for very

00:57:23 ◼   ► good product decisions from everything I've heard in in lots of ways.

00:57:26 ◼   ► Like I've heard lots of stories about like input that Phil had or things

00:57:29 ◼   ► Phil was pushing for.

00:57:30 ◼   ► We even saw like in the in that app store trial, the when in

00:57:34 ◼   ► some of the epic uh discovery processes, like the emails from Phil to the

00:57:37 ◼   ► other other executives, like he seemed to be on the right side of a

00:57:40 ◼   ► lot of issues and and have his head in the right place.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Overall, like he he's been, I think, a very good force in the company.

00:57:48 ◼   ► But there have been areas that we disagree on.

00:57:51 ◼   ► There's Phil has a little bit of an edge, like a little bit of

00:57:55 ◼   ► a of a sharp prickliness.

00:57:57 ◼   ► And as an East Coaster, I love that about him.

00:57:59 ◼   ► The very first email he ever sent me, it was it was while I

00:57:59 ◼   ► was doing Instapaper.

00:58:05 ◼   ► And he ended it by saying, I also want to thank you for creating

00:58:09 ◼   ► Instapaper.

00:58:10 ◼   ► It is a great app, well deserving of its four and a half star

00:58:13 ◼   ► rating.

00:58:15 ◼   ► And that's the that's just the most amazing.

00:58:17 ◼   ► Like, because first of all, it's like, wow.

00:58:19 ◼   ► And he and he said he has it on his iPhone and iPad.

00:58:22 ◼   ► So, like, first of all, wow, Phil Schiller uses my app.

00:58:25 ◼   ► What an honor.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Second of all, it's well deserving of its four and a half star rating.

00:58:30 ◼   ► I think he just meant that nice and you just took it that he

00:58:33 ◼   ► was talking about the half star.

00:58:34 ◼   ► I don't think that was him being prickly.

00:58:35 ◼   ► He did, but that's the thing.

00:58:37 ◼   ► Like he he always means it nice, but like there's that little tiny like,

00:58:41 ◼   ► this is a great compliment, but I just might have stepped on one of

00:58:44 ◼   ► those little one-by-one flat Legos.

00:58:46 ◼   ► You know?

00:58:47 ◼   ► So, and but that's Phil.

00:58:49 ◼   ► He's honest, he's direct, and I love that about him.

00:58:53 ◼   ► But he also has been all this time running the app store.

00:58:59 ◼   ► And I've also heard stories about, you know, his his role there, his leadership

00:59:06 ◼   ► there, and him being pretty much like the the driving force behind or the

00:59:11 ◼   ► the final authority of a lot of controversial app store decisions over the years.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Things like policy, what you know, what's allowed, what's not.

00:59:19 ◼   ► That's that all goes to Phil.

00:59:21 ◼   ► Like the the r the the toughest decisions, the the real edge case rule

00:59:25 ◼   ► enforcement things or the the the high-level policies.

00:59:29 ◼   ► From my understanding, that was mostly Phil.

00:59:32 ◼   ► The App Store under Phil has been mostly good, but a little prickly.

00:59:37 ◼   ► And that that makes a lot of sense.

00:59:40 ◼   ► So for Phil to be giving up the App Store, I think that might

00:59:44 ◼   ► be a really big deal.

00:59:46 ◼   ► Now, I'm not expecting tomorrow for Apple to open it wide up, wide open

00:59:51 ◼   ► and say, all right, everyone do whatever you want in the App Store.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Like, no, I don't, I I don't think that is a reasonable thing to

00:59:57 ◼   ► expect here.

00:59:58 ◼   ► I don't think they're likely to change the commission when not legally forced by

01:00:03 ◼   ► some jurisdiction.

01:00:04 ◼   ► Like I don't think we're likely to see big changes like that that are

01:00:08 ◼   ► going to impact their ability to make tons of money.

01:00:11 ◼   ► Because that's the reality is they make tons of money from it, and their

01:00:15 ◼   ► their you know, growth story with the services business kind of needs that.

01:00:18 ◼   ► So I don't think that's on the table.

01:00:22 ◼   ► But I do think that a change in app store leadership at this level,

01:00:25 ◼   ► at the Phil level, is probably going to result in over the next, I

01:00:31 ◼   ► don't know, six months to a year.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I think we're gonna start to see budging or bettering of things in other

01:00:38 ◼   ► areas that for whatever reason Phil was like a hard liner on some of

01:00:42 ◼   ► those decisions, whether it's stuff like what you're allowed to do, like rule-wise, maybe

01:00:47 ◼   ► a little bit of flexibility where we didn't have flexibility before, maybe like a

01:00:51 ◼   ► a rule that's kind of been vague, will start to be interpreted a different

01:00:54 ◼   ► way.

01:00:55 ◼   ► I think that's the that's the level of thing that we're likely to see

01:00:58 ◼   ► here.

01:00:59 ◼   ► That's why I think this is a really big deal.

01:01:01 ◼   ► As an app developer, that that makes me, you know, similar to like the

01:01:04 ◼   ► CEO exchange, it kind of makes me both excited and nervous because Phil, all

01:01:09 ◼   ► these years running the app store has been, you know, the the devil you

01:01:12 ◼   ► know, and when you change that up, like, well, you don't really know.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Like, who what are we gonna get with the new leadership, whoever that is?

01:01:19 ◼   ► Um, is it gonna be better in ways that we care about, or is

01:01:22 ◼   ► it actually gonna get worse?

01:01:23 ◼   ► Like, we don't actually know that yet.

01:01:25 ◼   ► Um, but that's why I think this is a really big deal.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Because I think most people weren't aware necessarily of Phil's role in the app

01:01:32 ◼   ► store.

01:01:29 ◼   ► And now that role is changing.

01:01:36 ◼   ► So that I think could be a big deal.

01:01:38 ◼   ► But ultimately, setting the app store aside, um, if this really is Phil's ultimate

01:01:44 ◼   ► final retirement from the company, which I don't I uh it doesn't sound like

01:01:47 ◼   ► it is.

01:01:48 ◼   ► He's got one more step at least because he's still he's gonna work on

01:01:51 ◼   ► unspecified projects, but he's basically given up the two responsibilities that he had.

01:01:55 ◼   ► So now he has zero responsibilities except for unspecified.

01:01:58 ◼   ► Right.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And knowing Phil, I bet he's still gonna be working like crazy, but I

01:02:02 ◼   ► did want to take this chance while he is still probably there, to honor

01:02:07 ◼   ► all the work he has done there because again, I think he does so

01:02:11 ◼   ► much work behind the scenes on so many products across the company that most

01:02:15 ◼   ► people don't know about.

01:02:16 ◼   ► A lot of what we love about Apple products, Phil had input in those

01:02:20 ◼   ► decisions, and he pushed for a lot of the right decisions.

01:02:24 ◼   ► So he he has had an amazing career at Apple.

01:02:28 ◼   ► Again, I will always be fond of him because he he kind of brought

01:02:31 ◼   ► me into the the Apple PR world in a way that that no one

01:02:35 ◼   ► else there has before or since.

01:02:37 ◼   ► And I and I think he I think he really believes in and pushes

01:02:43 ◼   ► for most of the best things that we love about Apple products.

01:02:47 ◼   ► I I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

01:02:49 ◼   ► And you know, I I don't know that some of the crummy decisions around

01:02:53 ◼   ► the app store were him.

01:02:54 ◼   ► I mean, I feel like we learned in Discovery for the Epic thing that

01:02:58 ◼   ► he was trying to pump the brakes on some of the commissions that they

01:03:02 ◼   ► charge us uh once they hit like a billion dollars in revenue or something

01:03:05 ◼   ► like that.

01:03:05 ◼   ► I'm getting the details wrong, I'm sure, but you get the idea.

01:03:08 ◼   ► Um I thought that we had seen emails where he was like, you know,

01:03:11 ◼   ► do we really need any more money from developers?

01:03:13 ◼   ► Like, aren't we good now?

01:03:14 ◼   ► Yeah, we did.

01:03:15 ◼   ► Like that that's part of what came out in that trial.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Like and the answer was yes, they didn't need more money.

01:03:19 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:03:20 ◼   ► He was uh overruled in that decision, asked and answered.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Yeah, Tim Cook says yes, we do need more money.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Uh sit down, Phil.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Now I've I've never had the pleasure of meeting him in person, but obviously

01:03:29 ◼   ► we interviewed him in episode 317, which was March 15th of 2019.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Uh, without hyperbole, I really mean this hand on heart.

01:03:36 ◼   ► Uh one of the coolest and best moments of my entire career was I

01:03:39 ◼   ► forget exactly what question I asked Phil, but it was at the end we

01:03:41 ◼   ► were just kind of goofing off.

01:03:42 ◼   ► We were still on air, but we were kind of goofing off.

01:03:44 ◼   ► And I'd asked Phil something car-related, and he started rattling off a couple of

01:03:48 ◼   ► cars that I was like, yeah, okay, I know what that is.

01:03:50 ◼   ► And then he went deep into the weeds about, I think Porsche's, I might

01:03:53 ◼   ► have that wrong, but I got the floor wiped with me because he was

01:03:58 ◼   ► just like, Oh, you think you know cars, sir.

01:04:00 ◼   ► And he wasn't being a jerk about it.

01:04:02 ◼   ► It was just, oh no, no, no, no, no.

01:04:04 ◼   ► You sweet summer child, Casey, let me tell you about cars.

01:04:07 ◼   ► And it was incredible.

01:04:09 ◼   ► One of the coolest moments of my entire career.

01:04:11 ◼   ► I genuinely mean that.

01:04:12 ◼   ► And so, Phil, I don't think you listened to the show.

01:04:14 ◼   ► I'm not sure you ever did, other than perhaps the episode you were on.

01:04:18 ◼   ► But if you ever, ever, ever want to come back, I don't care if

01:04:20 ◼   ► you're an Apple employee or not, we don't even need to talk about Apple.

01:04:23 ◼   ► I'll talk to you about car stuff again.

01:04:24 ◼   ► I don't care.

01:04:25 ◼   ► If you ever want to come back, the uh the offer is there.

01:04:27 ◼   ► You you are we are ready and waiting.

01:04:29 ◼   ► Yeah, we're saying this is like as a Phil Exit interview, but again, he

01:04:32 ◼   ► hasn't actually exited yet.

01:04:33 ◼   ► He's on his way.

01:04:34 ◼   ► Anyway, um, yeah, he could do the Chris Latner thing and leave Apple and

01:04:37 ◼   ► then come on the show.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Uh, my favorite part of that uh that interview, by the way.

01:04:40 ◼   ► You should listen to him.

01:04:41 ◼   ► I'm not sure how good a job we did interviewing him, but at the

01:04:44 ◼   ► end, where he was a little bit loose, he did give us some fun

01:04:46 ◼   ► stuff, which was uh retelling the story of uh how Steve Jobs uh made

01:04:50 ◼   ► him jump off a tower onto a stage holding uh the first uh uh

01:04:54 ◼   ► Apple laptop with Wi-Fi to show that uh it didn't have any wires attached

01:04:57 ◼   ► to it.

01:04:58 ◼   ► And you can hear in his retelling of the backstage story of like uh

01:05:01 ◼   ► Steve Jobs telling him, Hey, we're gonna have you jump off this thing and

01:05:04 ◼   ► trying to get him to sign like an insurance waiver and him basically saying,

01:05:07 ◼   ► I'm not signing that.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Listen to that story again and think back to Marco's description of him of

01:05:11 ◼   ► being a nice, friendly guy who's also got a little bit of an edge.

01:05:14 ◼   ► I think you'll hear it in the story.

01:05:15 ◼   ► Yeah, oh yeah.

01:05:16 ◼   ► It's it's solid, solid fill for sure.

01:05:18 ◼   ► I I really not I mean I'm saying this as though the man has

01:05:21 ◼   ► passed away, and uh, God willing, far from it.

01:05:22 ◼   ► But he hasn't even left Apple.

01:05:24 ◼   ► I know, I know.

01:05:25 ◼   ► I but I really wish I had the opportunity to meet him at some

01:05:27 ◼   ► point.

01:05:28 ◼   ► I'm sure he would have no freaking clue who I was, but it would

01:05:31 ◼   ► be it would be really great to shake his hand and thank him for

01:05:33 ◼   ► all the incredible work that he has done.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Like it wasn't the the iPod click wheel his, if I'm not mistaken.

01:05:38 ◼   ► I mean, just incredible, incredible work over an impossibly long career.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Well, if I see him in town, I'll tell him you say hi.

01:05:44 ◼   ► That's true.

01:05:44 ◼   ► He is from Boston, isn't he?

01:05:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:46 ◼   ► So last last time we we said when when he when he moved to

01:05:50 ◼   ► Apple Fellow and and left his marketing role to Jaws, Johnny I we were

01:05:54 ◼   ► saying, like Johnny I like went to the sky and we were like, Phil

01:05:57 ◼   ► got promoted to the roof.

01:05:58 ◼   ► Like he was like still like near the building, on the building, you know.

01:06:01 ◼   ► What where is he now?

01:06:02 ◼   ► Like in the visitor center?

01:06:04 ◼   ► He's just haunting the campus like a ghost.

01:06:06 ◼   ► You just walk around the corner and there he is with Sage advice.

01:06:10 ◼   ► Because like unspecified projects is I mean, that could be that could be something

01:06:13 ◼   ► like you know, whatever the next car project is, or that could be like

01:06:16 ◼   ► feeding the ducks in the duck pond in the middle.

01:06:18 ◼   ► He's working on the new pizza boxes for Cafe Max.

01:06:20 ◼   ► There you go.

01:06:22 ◼   ► All right.

01:06:23 ◼   ► Uh let's do some actual exit interviews for the hardware.

01:06:28 ◼   ► So the event is next week.

01:06:30 ◼   ► It is when is it?

01:06:31 ◼   ► I don't even know.

01:06:32 ◼   ► It's like Wednesday.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Ninth, Wednesday, yeah.

01:06:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:34 ◼   ► Because of the Labor Days on Monday.

01:06:35 ◼   ► That's right.

01:06:35 ◼   ► So it's Wednesday next week.

01:06:36 ◼   ► So let's do the iPhone 17, 17 Pro, 17 Pro Max, and iPhone Air

01:06:40 ◼   ► Exit Interviews.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Uh, first of all, we should note the rumor is that the iPhone 17

01:06:44 ◼   ► isn't really exiting quite yet.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Allegedly, we're just getting the pros and the fold uh next week.

01:06:50 ◼   ► But do you I don't remember?

01:06:52 ◼   ► Is the air supposed to come next week too?

01:06:54 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

01:06:54 ◼   ► That's kind of it's been rumored to probably be in the spring with the

01:06:58 ◼   ► others.

01:06:58 ◼   ► Um so it doesn't seem like the air is keep is being updated yet.

01:07:02 ◼   ► Yeah, there is another air coming.

01:07:03 ◼   ► We're just not sure of the day.

01:07:04 ◼   ► But yeah, we'll we'll we'll exit interview all of them, even though again, uh

01:07:08 ◼   ► it's certainly the iPhone 17, if the rumors are to be believed, is not

01:07:10 ◼   ► exiting.

01:07:11 ◼   ► And maybe the air is also not exiting, but they will exit eventually.

01:07:13 ◼   ► Uh yeah, for me, so I have an iPhone 17 Pro.

01:07:16 ◼   ► I have it in whatever the flavor of blue is from this past year.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Um I really love this phone a lot, and uh I don't have too

01:07:26 ◼   ► much to say about it, or at least I don't think I do, but

01:07:28 ◼   ► a couple of things I wanted to call out.

01:07:29 ◼   ► Uh I am brutal on my phones as we've learned over the years.

01:07:33 ◼   ► I have went from never shattering a phone to shattering like two or three

01:07:37 ◼   ► in a row.

01:07:37 ◼   ► Um I went through something like seven screen protectors on the last phone on

01:07:42 ◼   ► my iPhone 16 Pro.

01:07:43 ◼   ► Uh for this one, it has never ever been in a case, and I

01:07:47 ◼   ► have yet to shatter it, and we are coming up on the end of

01:07:51 ◼   ► its service life.

01:07:52 ◼   ► That's me knocking on wood.

01:07:54 ◼   ► Um, I have yet to shatter it.

01:07:56 ◼   ► I did get a couple of gouges in the screen, which I'm not sure

01:07:58 ◼   ► how that happened, but here we are.

01:08:00 ◼   ► But I am very satisfied that I went almost the entire year with Narya

01:08:04 ◼   ► scratch on it, and now I have a couple of scratches on the upper

01:08:06 ◼   ► left.

01:08:07 ◼   ► Uh, but I never shattered it.

01:08:08 ◼   ► Uh I I have dropped it now, not as brutally as I have some

01:08:12 ◼   ► other.

01:08:12 ◼   ► No, that's not true.

01:08:13 ◼   ► I dropped it on concrete once or twice.

01:08:14 ◼   ► So yeah, really good work on the ceramic shield 2 or whatever they're calling

01:08:18 ◼   ► it.

01:08:18 ◼   ► I forget the marketing name for it.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Um, I'm a little unhappy that there's a couple of scratches, but given the

01:08:24 ◼   ► the way this thing has been treated, uh really a maybe even a plus

01:08:28 ◼   ► for the ceramic shield.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Uh really, really good work there.

01:08:31 ◼   ► The aluminum uh has chipped in a couple of spots, but I don't really

01:08:35 ◼   ► mind it to be honest.

01:08:36 ◼   ► I think of it kind of like a patina.

01:08:37 ◼   ► Um the other thing that really chap my bottom around the 15 and 16

01:08:41 ◼   ► pros, if memory serves, was the thermal throttling.

01:08:45 ◼   ► Uh and I mean that not only in terms of speed, but especially in

01:08:47 ◼   ► terms of screen brightness.

01:08:49 ◼   ► And as someone who goes to football games in the fall and late summer,

01:08:54 ◼   ► um using your phone outside can really suck because you know you you have

01:08:59 ◼   ► it get hot and then you can barely see the screen because it's cranked

01:09:03 ◼   ► the brightness to like negative 100%.

01:09:06 ◼   ► And this phone is not impervious to that, but thanks to the vapor chamber,

01:09:11 ◼   ► I think it's called, uh, it definitely does a lot better than any iPhone

01:09:14 ◼   ► I've had in years.

01:09:16 ◼   ► So I'd say B to B plus for the thermal throttling in this phone

01:09:20 ◼   ► and A to A plus for the screen or ceramic shield.

01:09:22 ◼   ► Uh, I have a couple of thoughts about the air that are kind of

01:09:25 ◼   ► tangential, but with regard to the 17 Pro, Marco, you also have a 17

01:09:29 ◼   ► Pro if I remember correctly.

01:09:30 ◼   ► Uh, but John, this is the last year was not your year, is that

01:09:33 ◼   ► right?

01:09:34 ◼   ► Yeah, my wife has a 17 Pro though, and really the only uh exposure

01:09:37 ◼   ► I have to it is is you know, she she uses phones differently than

01:09:41 ◼   ► I do.

01:09:41 ◼   ► She has like massive cases, she has like the wallet cases, like the magnetically

01:09:45 ◼   ► attaching wallet case with like a like an air tag type thing embedded in

01:09:48 ◼   ► it.

01:09:48 ◼   ► It's just she's got a lot of stuff on our phone.

01:09:51 ◼   ► Her phone is big and heavy, and you could like bludgeon someone with it.

01:09:53 ◼   ► It's the same 17 Pro in there, it's not a Pro Max, it's just

01:09:56 ◼   ► a Pro, but I compare it to my 16 Pro, and her thing is

01:09:59 ◼   ► just way bigger.

01:10:00 ◼   ► But and she plays Pokemon Go on it all the time.

01:10:02 ◼   ► So my exposure to it is when I borrow her phone or pick it

01:10:05 ◼   ► up or hand it to her or whatever, to basically feel how hot it

01:10:07 ◼   ► is.

01:10:08 ◼   ► And you would think you wouldn't be able to feel any heat through all

01:10:10 ◼   ► that stuff, but my subjective impression of handling my wife's phone for the past

01:10:15 ◼   ► year because she got it on launch time, is that the vapor chamber did

01:10:14 ◼   ► help.

01:10:20 ◼   ► Um, I'm not sure that if it helped her battery life because she's again

01:10:22 ◼   ► she's very rough on these batteries and she has lots of charging solutions and

01:10:25 ◼   ► stuff like that.

01:10:26 ◼   ► Uh but she and the other the other thing I will measure it by

01:10:29 ◼   ► is has she had complaints?

01:10:31 ◼   ► Is she constantly saying my phone battery's dying or it's doing a weird thing

01:10:35 ◼   ► or it's getting too hot?

01:10:36 ◼   ► And the answer is no, she hasn't complained to me anything about her phone.

01:10:38 ◼   ► So I give the 17 Pro a thumbs up.

01:10:41 ◼   ► I think the vapor chamber actually did do something, and the rumor is that

01:10:44 ◼   ► the phone that I'm getting this year, the 18 Pro will have an even

01:10:47 ◼   ► bigger vapor chamber.

01:10:48 ◼   ► So thumbs up for cooling.

01:10:50 ◼   ► My experience using the 17 Pro for the past year.

01:10:54 ◼   ► I just love this phone.

01:10:57 ◼   ► It is awesome.

01:10:59 ◼   ► I have no major complaints about the 17 Pro that I think are actually

01:11:02 ◼   ► related to it.

01:11:04 ◼   ► My my only complaint is that tethering just doesn't work for me for more

01:11:08 ◼   ► than like two minutes.

01:11:09 ◼   ► Um, and so I've been carrying around this hot spot for a year because

01:11:12 ◼   ► I haven't wanted to go to an ATT store and have them like fix

01:11:15 ◼   ► my whatever sim is causing that severe problem.

01:11:18 ◼   ► But um, but otherwise, like I love my 17 Pro.

01:11:23 ◼   ► I got the orange one, which was the right choice.

01:11:26 ◼   ► Um, it is the best iPhone color I've ever had.

01:11:30 ◼   ► It is I think I think it's the best color it's ever been offered

01:11:33 ◼   ► in the Pro line.

01:11:34 ◼   ► And I think the sales of the 17 Pro back that up.

01:11:37 ◼   ► It's been a huge hit, and when you look around the world, you see

01:11:41 ◼   ► some of the dark blue ones, uh a very small handful of the silver

01:11:45 ◼   ► ones, and a ton of the orange ones.

01:11:48 ◼   ► Everyone chose orange, and I think the orange being such a good color played

01:11:53 ◼   ► a significant role in the 17 Pro's sales, which by all accounts have been

01:11:58 ◼   ► very, very strong, even stronger than Apple expected by by most accounts.

01:12:02 ◼   ► So I think it is no question that objectively having this be an awesome

01:12:06 ◼   ► color was a good idea and helped the iPhone a lot and just made

01:12:09 ◼   ► it a great, fun, awesome new release.

01:12:13 ◼   ► And then functionality wise, the cameras are great.

01:12:17 ◼   ► The 4X is like finally the right distance for that camera to be.

01:12:22 ◼   ► The 8X mode where it's where like you know Optica or it uh digitally

01:12:26 ◼   ► samples the 4X middle section actually is usable.

01:12:31 ◼   ► The stabilization of it is also perfect.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Like I've never had a problem with blurry shots on the 4X or 8X

01:12:37 ◼   ► distances.

01:12:37 ◼   ► I use those, I use the 4X all the time, and it actually provides

01:12:42 ◼   ► a significantly different point of view than the 1X.

01:12:45 ◼   ► Um so I I do find frequent uses for it.

01:12:48 ◼   ► The battery life has been awesome on it.

01:12:51 ◼   ► And I I don't I don't have the max, I just have like the

01:12:53 ◼   ► you know, the medium-sized one, the regular size one.

01:12:56 ◼   ► Um it's been great.

01:12:58 ◼   ► I don't think I've ever seen the battery below 25%.

01:13:01 ◼   ► Uh it's just been awesome.

01:13:04 ◼   ► Cooling wise, the vapor chamber for me has been way better than previous phones.

01:13:09 ◼   ► Like, if anything, I I think that was one of the worst things about

01:13:11 ◼   ► the 16 Pro line.

01:13:13 ◼   ► Uh, that it it it was the 16 Pro was pretty good, but it

01:13:16 ◼   ► got really hot and thermally throttled all the time.

01:13:19 ◼   ► The 17 Pro with the Vapor Chamber, it really needed it, and it performs

01:13:22 ◼   ► great.

01:13:22 ◼   ► It delivered.

01:13:23 ◼   ► Overall, I really I can't say anything bad about this phone.

01:13:28 ◼   ► Like when I got it, you know, I I also did originally get an

01:13:31 ◼   ► iPhone Air.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Um, I ended up returning it, and then a couple months ago for beta

01:13:36 ◼   ► season, I ended up buying a a uh renewed, refurbished iPhone Air Um for

01:13:41 ◼   ► a test phone for this summer.

01:13:43 ◼   ► And so I've had some more time with the air.

01:13:45 ◼   ► I'll get to that when we get to the air.

01:13:44 ◼   ► But when I was deciding to go with the Pro, what I said last

01:13:44 ◼   ► year was I wanted the Pro because I want to know that whatever situation

01:13:55 ◼   ► I'm in, I'm not going to regret the phone I have.

01:13:59 ◼   ► Whatever situation I'm in, I know I'm going to have enough battery life.

01:14:02 ◼   ► I'm going to have the best cameras I can have with me.

01:14:05 ◼   ► It's not going to throttle under heat or whatever.

01:14:08 ◼   ► It's going to be the best iPhone that it can be in every situation.

01:14:12 ◼   ► And the iPhone 17 Pro has delivered.

01:14:15 ◼   ► It has been that the entire year.

01:14:18 ◼   ► This phone has been great.

01:14:20 ◼   ► It has been so great that honestly, I don't think I'm going to upgrade.

01:14:25 ◼   ► Which I know that to the rest of the reasonable world, they're like, why

01:14:30 ◼   ► the hell do you upgrade every year, you crazy lunatic?

01:14:33 ◼   ► Um, but the the fact is I have upgraded every year, and I I'll

01:14:37 ◼   ► say it's for the show.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Um, but it's not of course it's for me.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Like we all know that.

01:14:42 ◼   ► Like I it it's fine if not if we don't all get you know

01:14:45 ◼   ► the newest phones.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Uh John has never gotten the phone every year, and the show has gone

01:14:49 ◼   ► on.

01:14:49 ◼   ► It's been fine.

01:14:50 ◼   ► Um but honestly, between the the new colors that are rumored, honestly not doing

01:14:56 ◼   ► much for me, um, and the or and I love the orange, but also

01:14:59 ◼   ► this phone just is so good.

01:15:02 ◼   ► I we'll see what, you know, whatever the 18 Pro has, maybe I'll convince

01:15:06 ◼   ► myself I need it, but um You will.

01:15:09 ◼   ► I I ultimately uh honestly I think I'm just gonna get the foldable as

01:15:12 ◼   ► and and you know try that for a while for for development design purposes,

01:15:15 ◼   ► which actually is important.

01:15:16 ◼   ► But um, but I I think I will probably end up switching back to

01:15:19 ◼   ► this after I use the foldable for a little while.

01:15:22 ◼   ► Um, if I had to guess now at this point.

01:15:24 ◼   ► Uh but I love the 17 Pro.

01:15:27 ◼   ► It has been remarkably good.

01:15:30 ◼   ► And here I am a year in thinking I don't see any reason why

01:15:29 ◼   ► I would replace this phone at all.

01:15:36 ◼   ► Yeah, the the new color uh has me a little bit nervous.

01:15:39 ◼   ► I do think the the 18 Pro, they picked one color for it, and

01:15:43 ◼   ► it's it's it I don't think it was a particularly controversial color.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Like it was bold enough that it's gonna stand out and make people notice

01:15:49 ◼   ► it, but it wasn't like, oh, I can't look at that.

01:15:52 ◼   ► It's like a traffic cone or it's like green neon.

01:15:55 ◼   ► It was it was a crowd pleaser, okay?

01:15:57 ◼   ► Like it was it was I think it was tasteful and bright.

01:16:00 ◼   ► It was just walk that line.

01:16:02 ◼   ► The rumors of the new color being like a deep cherry, and maybe all

01:16:06 ◼   ► right.

01:16:06 ◼   ► I will admit that I do not have my finger on the pulse of

01:16:08 ◼   ► what colors are in fashion.

01:16:09 ◼   ► Okay, so maybe for all I know, deep cherry is gonna make the world

01:16:12 ◼   ► go wild.

01:16:13 ◼   ► But it's not making Marco go wild, it's not making me go wild either.

01:16:15 ◼   ► So maybe for the old man set, it's not as popular as the orange

01:16:20 ◼   ► was.

01:16:20 ◼   ► So maybe they're changing tactics.

01:16:21 ◼   ► We'll see how it sells.

01:16:22 ◼   ► But uh, but yeah, that the the 17 Pro definitely is a milestone in

01:16:27 ◼   ► the iPhone.

01:16:27 ◼   ► It's the year they decided to give the Pro Phone a color.

01:16:30 ◼   ► Yeah, and uh to I forget which one of you said it, but to

01:16:32 ◼   ► one of your points, uh, I see the orange one everywhere.

01:16:37 ◼   ► And I would have hoped that the the message that Apple received from that

01:16:42 ◼   ► is hey, we should embrace colors in the friggin' pro phones.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Well, they're doing one color this year, the rumor is so they're not decreasing

01:16:51 ◼   ► it, but they're also not increasing it.

01:16:52 ◼   ► I mean, I think the other reason you see the orange everywhere is obviously

01:16:55 ◼   ► it does stand out.

01:16:55 ◼   ► And also, if you got an orange phone, you're less likely to put a

01:16:58 ◼   ► case on it or less likely to put it have like it not a

01:17:01 ◼   ► clear case on it because all those silver and black phones that are out

01:17:04 ◼   ► there, they're all in just giant cases, and you don't have no idea what

01:17:06 ◼   ► color they are.

01:17:07 ◼   ► Yeah, but I mean, uh what are they doing that you said like a

01:17:10 ◼   ► wine color or something like that?

01:17:11 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I mean, again, we just have rumors and pictures, but it looked

01:17:14 ◼   ► like a deep cherry kind of thing.

01:17:16 ◼   ► And again, I I maybe it's in fashion and everyone's gonna go gaga for

01:17:20 ◼   ► it, but for me, it's not as straight up the middle crowd pleasing as

01:17:23 ◼   ► a really nice orange.

01:17:24 ◼   ► Or a really nice red or something.

01:17:25 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:17:26 ◼   ► Like it's just like one of the sort of basic colors as opposed to

01:17:30 ◼   ► a subtle mix of purplish, reddish, deep kind of yeah, I don't know.

01:17:34 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:17:35 ◼   ► I think this one is like a little bit more like metallic flaky.

01:17:37 ◼   ► Again, all we have are spy shots, so who knows what the real color

01:17:40 ◼   ► will look like.

01:17:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I just I I think something more vibrant like that orange is the

01:17:44 ◼   ► right or way to go, but here we are.

01:17:45 ◼   ► Uh I don't have an iPhone Air.

01:17:47 ◼   ► I've handled an iPhone Air a handful of times over the last year.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Um I'm curious to hear Marco's thoughts.

01:17:52 ◼   ► But one thing I will say is that from those that I know that

01:17:55 ◼   ► have one, and I know a handful of people with one, it does not

01:17:58 ◼   ► seem like for them anyway, the camera or the battery were near as much

01:18:04 ◼   ► an issue as I would have expected.

01:18:06 ◼   ► That is that doesn't mean that the camera and the battery are not an

01:18:08 ◼   ► issue at all.

01:18:09 ◼   ► Just that it seems from the people I know with iPhone Airs, they make

01:18:14 ◼   ► it work, and it's not nearly as burdensome as I would have thought.

01:18:17 ◼   ► Now, Marco, I don't think you've ever properly used the air as a carry

01:18:20 ◼   ► phone, but tell me what was your experience one way or the other.

01:18:23 ◼   ► I used it as a carry phone for I think like two or three

01:18:27 ◼   ► days when I first got it.

01:18:29 ◼   ► And I and then I got a pro instead and switched it to the

01:18:31 ◼   ► pro.

01:18:31 ◼   ► But um the air, so the air, I think the main problems with the

01:18:38 ◼   ► air are that it makes some pretty big compromises in areas that people care

01:18:43 ◼   ► a lot about for benefits in areas that people don't care a lot about.

01:18:48 ◼   ► It's an interesting statement phone.

01:18:51 ◼   ► In the way that, like, you know, I I thought like the Cybertruck was

01:18:55 ◼   ► an interesting statement vehicle design, but that doesn't mean I want it.

01:19:00 ◼   ► You know?

01:19:00 ◼   ► And so the like I'm glad that Apple did the air because all of

01:19:05 ◼   ► their other phones were kind of fitting the same mold, making similar trade-offs and

01:19:11 ◼   ► just kind of you know different sizes and price tiers of of this of

01:19:14 ◼   ► the same kind of thing.

01:19:16 ◼   ► And the air is way out there in a whole different, you know, continuum.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Like it it does not follow the same trade-offs as their other phones.

01:19:24 ◼   ► The problem is it follows trade-offs nobody wants.

01:19:27 ◼   ► So the air significantly sacrifices the battery, the cameras, and also the performance, which

01:19:36 ◼   ► I know that's less of a thing that matters to most people, but the

01:19:39 ◼   ► air thermal throttles, when you do anything, it has no cooling whatsoever.

01:19:46 ◼   ► No chill.

01:19:47 ◼   ► The like the little island in the back that has the camera and everything

01:19:50 ◼   ► that also houses a huge amount of the circuitry, that's why it's so thin.

01:19:53 ◼   ► Um that little the island area gets so hot when it does anything that

01:19:59 ◼   ► it turns out to do things very slowly.

01:20:02 ◼   ► Even simple things like you know, just like processing photos you've shot with the

01:20:06 ◼   ► one camera.

01:20:07 ◼   ► Um, or you know, like doing the migration is like it takes forever on

01:20:11 ◼   ► the air because it's just thermal throttling constantly because it does not have the

01:20:16 ◼   ► vapor chamber.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Uh there are rumors that the next air might gain some kind of vapor

01:20:20 ◼   ► chamber.

01:20:20 ◼   ► It badly needs it.

01:20:21 ◼   ► I hope those are true.

01:20:22 ◼   ► Thermal throttling aside, the main compromise to the air are that, yeah, the battery

01:20:27 ◼   ► life is not amazing, but although Casey's right, it was not as bad as

01:20:31 ◼   ► most people expected it to be.

01:20:33 ◼   ► Um, in part because they gave the air the Apple design cellular modem, which

01:20:37 ◼   ► the pro doesn't get.

01:20:39 ◼   ► Um, but that and it is apparently a pretty big savings.

01:20:42 ◼   ► So that helps.

01:20:44 ◼   ► The biggest thing with the air is the camera.

01:20:46 ◼   ► Now, it has one camera, it is the 1x camera, and they do it

01:20:51 ◼   ► it can focus a little bit closer minimum focus distance than the 1x camera

01:20:55 ◼   ► on the pros, so it's not exactly the same camera.

01:20:57 ◼   ► So it does sort of make up for some of the loss of the

01:21:01 ◼   ► macro focusing by not having the wide.

01:21:04 ◼   ► Um, but it still doesn't have much close-up focusing ability, and it doesn't have

01:21:10 ◼   ► the wide, and it doesn't have a zoom.

01:21:12 ◼   ► And that's just a that's a pretty big set of compromises for people.

01:21:16 ◼   ► And if people want, you know, a phone with like you know, simpler cameras,

01:21:20 ◼   ► usually they go for like one of the cheaper ones that's like smaller and

01:21:23 ◼   ► cheaper.

01:21:24 ◼   ► Um if you want a phone that's very like lightweight in your in your

01:21:30 ◼   ► hand or in your pocket, the base model 17 is I think a better

01:21:35 ◼   ► overall balance of things for most people.

01:21:37 ◼   ► Um if you want a phone that is that has a big screen, you're

01:21:41 ◼   ► probably gonna want the max or the or the regular pro.

01:21:45 ◼   ► Um, and so the air kind of sits in this weird middle ground where

01:21:50 ◼   ► they're like, all right, what if we made a really thin phone?

01:21:53 ◼   ► It's like, okay, well, nobody really cares about the thinness.

01:21:56 ◼   ► But we made it really light.

01:21:58 ◼   ► Okay, well, that's you're getting somewhere, but you already make the 17, that's that's

01:22:01 ◼   ► pretty light, and the the E, that's pretty light too.

01:22:05 ◼   ► The air is big.

01:22:06 ◼   ► It's like, okay, so it's harder to hold because it's wide, hmm.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Okay.

01:22:10 ◼   ► It feels good, but it is wide.

01:22:12 ◼   ► It's like almost as big as a max phone, like footprint-wise.

01:22:16 ◼   ► So, okay.

01:22:16 ◼   ► And we're gonna make your battery life mediocre to bad.

01:22:20 ◼   ► Oh.

01:22:21 ◼   ► Okay.

01:22:21 ◼   ► And oh, and we're gonna take away all your cameras and just leave one.

01:22:25 ◼   ► That's okay.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Okay.

01:22:28 ◼   ► So the problem is no one who's buying a phone gives a crap how

01:22:29 ◼   ► thin it is.

01:22:35 ◼   ► They want the best cameras that they can afford.

01:22:38 ◼   ► They want the biggest battery they can afford.

01:22:41 ◼   ► That's what people buy phones for.

01:22:43 ◼   ► No one buys a phone saying I want it to be the thinnest phone

01:22:46 ◼   ► on the market.

01:22:46 ◼   ► They used to back well, the Motorola Razor was groundbreaking.

01:22:50 ◼   ► That used to matter a lot.

01:22:52 ◼   ► That doesn't matter now.

01:22:54 ◼   ► And uh, oh, and as as Neil58 in the chat points out, way worse

01:22:58 ◼   ► speakers on the iPhone Air, too.

01:23:00 ◼   ► Another thing that people actually care a surprising amount about because people end up

01:23:03 ◼   ► watching a lot of video and having a lot of speaker phone calls on

01:23:06 ◼   ► their phones, uh listening to music out loud, playing podcasts out loud.

01:23:09 ◼   ► It's actually a pretty common thing to use a speaker on a phone.

01:23:12 ◼   ► So the air was a really interesting experiment, industrial design-wise, aesthetically, that they just

01:23:20 ◼   ► made a product that nobody really wants.

01:23:22 ◼   ► And that's why if you look at anything that tries to estimate iPhone Air

01:23:28 ◼   ► sales, whether it's you know the analytics firms that like look at having people

01:23:32 ◼   ► buy stuff in Apple stores versus like you know, apps that can report device

01:23:36 ◼   ► type usage, like I see in my own stats.

01:23:39 ◼   ► Um, the air is so little in sales compared to anything else.

01:23:45 ◼   ► Like, no one bought the air, no one is buying the air, no one

01:23:50 ◼   ► will buy the air.

01:23:52 ◼   ► The upcoming uh folding phone is supposed to inherit a some of these trade-offs,

01:23:59 ◼   ► but I th but it sounds like they've done a better job of it.

01:24:01 ◼   ► And and the difference there is that the folding phone is going to offer

01:24:05 ◼   ► a lot in return for those trade-offs that people do care about.

01:24:09 ◼   ► You know what people love?

01:24:11 ◼   ► Giant screens on their phones.

01:24:12 ◼   ► They that's been proven.

01:24:14 ◼   ► People want the biggest screen they can possibly get and they will pay for

01:24:17 ◼   ► it.

01:24:18 ◼   ► And that for sure, like that's gonna get people to the ultra or the

01:24:21 ◼   ► fold, whatever it's gonna be called.

01:24:23 ◼   ► Um, so if you tell those people, well, the battery life might only be

01:24:26 ◼   ► okay, and you might give up one camera, there's still this huge plus that

01:24:31 ◼   ► the that the fold of the foldable will give them that will be a

01:24:34 ◼   ► compelling thing.

01:24:36 ◼   ► The air doesn't have one of those.

01:24:37 ◼   ► The air just is all the trade-offs, and the pluses just aren't that big

01:24:41 ◼   ► and aren't things that most people really care about.

01:24:44 ◼   ► To save people from uh to save Marco from the feedback, we're gonna hear

01:24:48 ◼   ► Marco saying that no one wants a thin phone.

01:24:49 ◼   ► He doesn't mean literally no one.

01:24:51 ◼   ► I mean, we know people who got it because it's so thin and they

01:24:53 ◼   ► love it.

01:24:54 ◼   ► And as I said when that phone was introduced, one of the reasons that

01:24:58 ◼   ► it is that weird size where it's like almost as big as a max,

01:25:02 ◼   ► is because you need to make it that big if you want it to

01:25:04 ◼   ► be that thin and have a decent battery because every little extra bit of

01:25:07 ◼   ► screen you have there is presumably more than offset by the extra battery you

01:25:10 ◼   ► get for being behind it.

01:25:12 ◼   ► What I want to say about the air is I want to give kudos

01:25:15 ◼   ► to the engineering effort where Apple sort of triumphantly uh returned to the thin

01:25:21 ◼   ► phone game and created a thin phone that is so durable that as we

01:25:27 ◼   ► saw when the YouTubers tried to test it, you cannot bend the thing with

01:25:31 ◼   ► human hands.

01:25:32 ◼   ► Like that's true.

01:25:33 ◼   ► I know it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, people shouldn't be

01:25:35 ◼   ► abusing their phones that way, and the product is the product, who cares how

01:25:38 ◼   ► bendable it is?

01:25:39 ◼   ► But from the same company that made the iPhone 6 that would bend when

01:25:42 ◼   ► you looked at it sideways, they made this thing, which is like like a

01:25:46 ◼   ► miracle slab.

01:25:48 ◼   ► You know, it's it looks beautiful, it feels great, it feels premium, and you

01:25:51 ◼   ► cannot bend it.

01:25:52 ◼   ► So kudos to the team that did that.

01:25:54 ◼   ► The team that did that is not responsible for the entire product.

01:25:56 ◼   ► They didn't decide what the iPhone Air was gonna be, they didn't decide it

01:25:58 ◼   ► was gonna have one camera or whatever.

01:26:00 ◼   ► They're just the team that says, hey, we're making a thin phone, you don't

01:26:03 ◼   ► get to design this product, your job is to make it so it doesn't

01:25:59 ◼   ► bend, and they did it.

01:26:07 ◼   ► So I want to give that team a big thumbs up.

01:26:09 ◼   ► And the fact that they're making a second one makes me think that either

01:26:12 ◼   ► they're just recouping tooling costs of like, look, we've already paid up front for

01:26:16 ◼   ► the all the stuff to make one of these, so we're going to make

01:26:18 ◼   ► another one no matter what.

01:26:19 ◼   ► But it does make me hope that again, what is that?

01:26:22 ◼   ► I've already forgotten carbon silicon batteries, like the next jump in battery uh um

01:26:27 ◼   ► composition to give a little bit more power, that they could potentially shrink it

01:26:31 ◼   ► down and maybe get some more of like, oh, it's it's light and thin,

01:26:34 ◼   ► but it's actually not that small.

01:26:36 ◼   ► I'm not advocating for the return of the mini, but I hope they keep

01:26:38 ◼   ► pursuing this because as technology increases, all of the bad parts that Marco was

01:26:43 ◼   ► talking about will start to be less bad.

01:26:47 ◼   ► Maybe you can fit two cameras on it eventually.

01:26:49 ◼   ► Maybe the battery life isn't as bad anymore, you know.

01:26:51 ◼   ► Like uh, and I don't know.

01:26:52 ◼   ► Like, I I think it is a viable option.

01:26:55 ◼   ► I do think that the 20th anniversary phone that's all glass and blah blah

01:26:58 ◼   ► blah, like that's gonna really throw a monkey wrench into the air's possible role

01:27:02 ◼   ► as pointing towards the future, but uh again, the the ultra slash folding phone

01:27:07 ◼   ► uh will have a lot in common with the air in terms of the

01:27:10 ◼   ► you know the design and uh manufacturing that Apple developed to make things thin

01:27:14 ◼   ► because the sides of the fold are gonna be even thinner, I would imagine.

01:27:18 ◼   ► And of course, there's two of them, so you put it together, the phone

01:27:20 ◼   ► will be thick, but those individual pieces are gonna be thin.

01:27:22 ◼   ► So here's hoping they've uh gotten even better at it.

01:27:25 ◼   ► J just to just to reiterate like something that I think most most people

01:27:28 ◼   ► who are buying at the high end don't really appreciate.

01:27:31 ◼   ► If what you want is a phone that feels noticeably light in your hands

01:27:35 ◼   ► and is lighter to handle, get the base model iPhone 17.

01:27:40 ◼   ► Because it is almost as light as the air.

01:27:42 ◼   ► It's a very small difference between between those two.

01:27:44 ◼   ► Both of them are well under the weight of the 17 Pro.

01:27:47 ◼   ► So if that's what you want, the iPhone 17 does a better job of

01:27:44 ◼   ► it.

01:27:51 ◼   ► It's cheaper.

01:27:53 ◼   ► Uh well, at the moment.

01:27:55 ◼   ► Um we'll see what happens with pricing uh next week.

01:27:59 ◼   ► That that's remains to be seen.

01:28:01 ◼   ► Um and the 17 is kind of an interesting case because it is it

01:28:04 ◼   ► is a continue and the air, both continuing to be sold.

01:28:07 ◼   ► So we'll see if they get price raises or not compared to the new

01:28:10 ◼   ► models, which will almost certainly have them.

01:28:12 ◼   ► Um but the iPhone 17 is almost as light.

01:28:17 ◼   ► It's smaller in the hand, $200 cheaper, it has better cameras, better battery life.

01:28:26 ◼   ► Like, there's a lot about the iPhone 17 that's like, well, it it you

01:28:31 ◼   ► should probably buy that instead of the air if what you're looking for is

01:28:35 ◼   ► a lighter phone.

01:28:37 ◼   ► I want to say for the iPhone 17, I think this is probably the

01:28:41 ◼   ► best no suffix iPhone that they have ever made.

01:28:44 ◼   ► Now, obviously, because it's newer or whatever.

01:28:45 ◼   ► I'm saying, like, in the time that they've made it, because it it really

01:28:48 ◼   ► just it came at a time when that phone with the specs that they

01:28:52 ◼   ► gave it and its surrounding phones make it the kind of thing where it

01:28:55 ◼   ► was it was like the MacBook Air phones back in the day when with

01:28:58 ◼   ► the 2011 MacBook Air, where just said you need a Mac, just get the

01:29:00 ◼   ► MacBook Air.

01:29:01 ◼   ► Everybody who was looking for a phone, I'm like, I didn't have to have

01:29:03 ◼   ► to ask them anything about what they wanted, so just get the iPhone 17.

01:29:06 ◼   ► The only thing I would say is look, if the iPhone 17 is still

01:29:08 ◼   ► expensive, then you can look at the 17e.

01:29:10 ◼   ► But the default was go to the iPhone 17.

01:29:12 ◼   ► I bought two of them.

01:29:12 ◼   ► I bought one for each of my kids.

01:29:13 ◼   ► Hopefully, the last phone I'll ever buy any of them.

01:29:16 ◼   ► Um, we'll see how that goes.

01:29:17 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, the iPhone 17 is what an amazing phone.

01:29:20 ◼   ► Because most people don't pay the extra for the Pro or the Air or

01:29:23 ◼   ► the even the Macs, you're just like, what is the cheapest I can get

01:29:26 ◼   ► an iPhone for?

01:29:27 ◼   ► And the 17E is the answer, or like older models, obviously, but the 17,

01:29:30 ◼   ► I'm just like, there's a new iPhone, the number is one more than last

01:29:33 ◼   ► year.

01:29:33 ◼   ► I don't care about suffixes.

01:29:29 ◼   ► What a great phone that is.

01:29:36 ◼   ► Like, it just everything said about it.

01:29:37 ◼   ► It's like the perfect size, the perfect weight, it looks nice, it came in

01:29:40 ◼   ► fun colors.

01:29:41 ◼   ► Like, it just uh I will definitely have fond memories of the plane 17.

01:29:45 ◼   ► It was definitely a good year.

01:29:47 ◼   ► Uh, it's gonna be big shoes for the plane 18 to fill sometime in

01:29:50 ◼   ► the spring.

01:29:50 ◼   ► And also this the the plane 17 brought the plane phone line up to

01:29:55 ◼   ► always on display and promotion.

01:29:57 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:29:58 ◼   ► It was the year that like they that they took a bunch of things

01:30:01 ◼   ► they'd been using for market segmentation and say now is the filing year.

01:30:04 ◼   ► Finally the year that we dropped them.

01:30:06 ◼   ► So that's why you could recommend it whole hard.

01:30:07 ◼   ► You didn't have to ask questions.

01:30:08 ◼   ► Oh, do you care about the screen being on all the time?

01:30:09 ◼   ► Do you have a book?