Upgrade

00:00:09 ◼   ► From relay, this is Upgrade episode 635 for August 31st, 2026.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Fitbod, Notion, and Claude.

00:00:20 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley, and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Mike, you know, I don't want to say goodbye to the summer of fun.

00:00:28 ◼   ► So I'm not going to.

00:00:29 ◼   ► We're not doing it.

00:00:30 ◼   ► People who really follow the upgrade lore would be expecting the draft music to

00:00:35 ◼   ► play now.

00:00:36 ◼   ► And don't worry, you'll get your draft music.

00:00:38 ◼   ► You'll get it.

00:00:38 ◼   ► But we've decided that we're not just yet letting go of the summer of

00:00:46 ◼   ► fun.

00:00:48 ◼   ► We're gonna get like half more of one episode of Summer of Fun.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:51 ◼   ► And we'll start out with a Snell Talk question that comes from Alex, who

00:00:55 ◼   ► wants to know if you could spend the day as an Apple employee, Jason.

00:01:00 ◼   ► What is the area of the company that you'd want to work in to

00:01:03 ◼   ► make the biggest change that you'd want to see?

00:01:06 ◼   ► I I feel like I've gotten a version of this question recently.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Um, and I was gonna tell you to change it, and then I thought,

00:01:13 ◼   ► I'll just give a different answer.

00:01:14 ◼   ► There you go.

00:01:15 ◼   ► That's the this is how we make content.

00:01:18 ◼   ► Um so I'm gonna I have to spend the day as an Apple employee.

00:01:23 ◼   ► I doubt there's much change that I can affect, but what I will try

00:01:26 ◼   ► to do is I am going to become the keeper of the TVOS prioritization

00:01:36 ◼   ► list.

00:01:38 ◼   ► Love it.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Because I use my Apple TV every day.

00:01:43 ◼   ► I like my Apple TV.

00:01:45 ◼   ► TV OS is just in stasis.

00:01:49 ◼   ► There's so many things that it should be doing.

00:01:53 ◼   ► And so I just want the job to prioritize a modern take on TV

00:01:58 ◼   ► OS that does better with live content and uh fast channels and other stuff

00:02:06 ◼   ► like that so that you can flip around to what's available live, like so

00:02:11 ◼   ► much stuff is now, and make the app centric model that was kind of

00:02:14 ◼   ► a mistake, uh, fade a little bit further into the background.

00:02:18 ◼   ► And so that's that's what I want to do is I want I just

00:02:20 ◼   ► basically want to parachute into Apple, find TV OS, give it a kick in

00:02:24 ◼   ► the pants, and then I'm out of there.

00:02:26 ◼   ► And I don't know, like lunch at Cafe Max, and then I'm out of

00:02:29 ◼   ► there.

00:02:29 ◼   ► I love it.

00:02:30 ◼   ► I mean, maybe you could also, you know, with this, or maybe this would

00:02:34 ◼   ► be part of it anyway, kind of incentivizing Apple and other companies to do

00:02:38 ◼   ► the deals that they all need to do, and everyone gets everything they want

00:02:41 ◼   ► so we can get things the way we want them.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I'd sneak after lunch.

00:02:45 ◼   ► Oh I'm gonna sneak into so I'm now I'm staying a little longer.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Um I I'm I'm sneaking in, so kick kick uh TV OS in the

00:02:54 ◼   ► pants in the morning, go to lunch, have lunch, maybe walk around the the

00:02:58 ◼   ► ring in on the inside for funsies.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Um and and as a part of that, then I sneak into a an

00:03:07 ◼   ► area where there's like a like a bat phone, like a red phone that

00:03:11 ◼   ► I can I can use to call um Netflix.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Oh.

00:03:16 ◼   ► And I and I'll I'll do my best John Turnus, I guess, which I

00:03:23 ◼   ► don't have one.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Uh he's not a very you haven't heard to hear him on enough earnings

00:03:27 ◼   ► calls yet.

00:03:27 ◼   ► Yeah, eventually we'll find out what what his ticks are and we'll be able

00:03:30 ◼   ► to do it better.

00:03:31 ◼   ► But nobody knows who he sounds like now.

00:03:32 ◼   ► No, it's not gonna matter.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Nobody knows.

00:03:33 ◼   ► I'm gonna be like, hey, it's John Turnis.

00:03:35 ◼   ► It's me, John Turnus, CEO of Apple.

00:03:38 ◼   ► You know, Netflix.

00:03:39 ◼   ► What do I have to do?

00:03:40 ◼   ► Let's make a deal.

00:03:41 ◼   ► I want you, I want you in our TV database.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Uh let's make a deal.

00:03:45 ◼   ► You want to sell Apple TV on inside Netflix?

00:03:44 ◼   ► Let's do it.

00:03:44 ◼   ► We could do that.

00:03:51 ◼   ► Let's make a deal right now.

00:03:52 ◼   ► And my voice is my passport.

00:03:54 ◼   ► This will be a valid uh contractual agreement.

00:03:57 ◼   ► And then jetpack, I'm out of there.

00:03:59 ◼   ► He's out of there.

00:04:00 ◼   ► Yep.

00:04:00 ◼   ► That's the yeah you go.

00:04:01 ◼   ► If you'd like to send in a Snell talk question of your own so

00:04:04 ◼   ► we can open a future episode, please go to upgradefeedback.com and send in your

00:04:09 ◼   ► Snell Talk question.

00:04:10 ◼   ► Now, Jason, we have huge news, massive news.

00:04:14 ◼   ► The biggest news since June.

00:04:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it's huge.

00:04:17 ◼   ► It's huge.

00:04:18 ◼   ► In a time of huge news, some some huge news stands out for its

00:04:22 ◼   ► hugeness, and this is that.

00:04:24 ◼   ► The feeds for design California are available now on the reality.

00:04:29 ◼   ► RSS feeds everybody, the biggest news there could be.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Hey, look, if you're a podcast fan, RSS feeds are a big deal.

00:04:36 ◼   ► It's everything.

00:04:37 ◼   ► Now, please go and subscribe to this show because this Wednesday, September 2nd, is

00:04:45 ◼   ► the launch of Designed in California.

00:04:47 ◼   ► That is when we are going to be publishing our first new episodes of

00:04:51 ◼   ► the show.

00:04:51 ◼   ► Currently, the feeds have everything you've heard so far.

00:04:54 ◼   ► So our original kind of pilot episode that was episode of upgraded in there.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Um, all of the episodes we published through June about the Apple II, they're

00:05:03 ◼   ► also in the feed because we will come back to that story at some

00:05:06 ◼   ► point in the future.

00:05:07 ◼   ► And on Wednesday this week, we're going to be publishing the first two episodes

00:05:11 ◼   ► of the show.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Um, this series, our first series, it's telling the story of Apple's Mac OS

00:05:18 ◼   ► crisis in the 90s that leads to them buying next.

00:05:22 ◼   ► And we're gonna be joined by special guest John Syracusa for this.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Again, you may remember we had John on this show, uh, also to help

00:05:29 ◼   ► us promote the Kickstarter campaign.

00:05:31 ◼   ► That discussion will be episode one, so kind of like setting the stage of

00:05:37 ◼   ► the issue that Apple's in, and then episode two publishes the same day, and

00:05:41 ◼   ► then it continues to roll out from there.

00:05:44 ◼   ► Week by week for a total of seven weeks for that series, unless you

00:05:49 ◼   ► become a member or back the Kickstarter, in which case you'll get, and this

00:05:52 ◼   ► is true, all seven on Wednesday.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Yeah, it is a seven-episode series to begin the show.

00:05:58 ◼   ► How long is it?

00:05:59 ◼   ► How many hours is this series?

00:06:01 ◼   ► It's uh about four hours, I think.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:04 ◼   ► Getting towards five hours, something uh uh around that.

00:06:07 ◼   ► Um so yeah, if you are a Kickstarter backer, uh please check your Kickstarter

00:06:13 ◼   ► messages if you haven't already, because all of the instructions that you need there

00:06:16 ◼   ► uh are there to to be able to go and grab the feeds because

00:06:19 ◼   ► that will all drop on Wednesday, and then for everybody else, it goes weekly.

00:06:23 ◼   ► It doesn't matter if you back the show on or on Kickstarter or not,

00:06:27 ◼   ► please go and check this out.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Like I Yes, please.

00:06:30 ◼   ► I'm so proud of the work that we've done.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Um, this this series is so good.

00:06:35 ◼   ► I've heard it now, I think five times in its entirety, and I enjoy

00:06:38 ◼   ► it every time.

00:06:39 ◼   ► And and I I really want you to give it a go.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Like if you listen to this show and you enjoy me and Jason, it's

00:06:45 ◼   ► more of that.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Like, it's more of us, and we get to tell these wonderful stories about

00:06:50 ◼   ► a company that we all clearly care about, and it's so fun and it's

00:06:55 ◼   ► so informative.

00:06:56 ◼   ► And Jason does such a great job of putting scripts together, and it still

00:07:00 ◼   ► includes so much of the things you love about upgrade.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Like, we're just having fun telling these stories, and I really want people to

00:07:08 ◼   ► listen to this show because I'm so proud of it.

00:07:10 ◼   ► And like we've already started on the next series, and we finished recording, and

00:07:15 ◼   ► I was like, man, this is so good.

00:07:17 ◼   ► And I can't wait for you to hear that one too.

00:07:14 ◼   ► So please go and check it out.

00:07:21 ◼   ► There's B links in the show notes, but you can go to relay.fm slash

00:07:24 ◼   ► designed.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Designer California finally launches this week.

00:07:28 ◼   ► We are so proud of it, and I cannot wait for you to hear

00:07:31 ◼   ► it.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and you can sign up now.

00:07:33 ◼   ► Um either way, you can subscribe for free.

00:07:36 ◼   ► You can subscribe as a member.

00:07:37 ◼   ► If you are a member or are going to become a member or a

00:07:40 ◼   ► Kickstarter Backer, you will be able to click a link and become a member.

00:07:43 ◼   ► That's how that works.

00:07:45 ◼   ► Um and there are two feeds there because there's actually the regular special edition

00:07:49 ◼   ► feed of Designing California for members, as well as uh our second feed, which

00:07:53 ◼   ► we are calling one more thing, which is for our bonus episodes that we're

00:07:57 ◼   ► gonna do for members.

00:07:58 ◼   ► So um sign up for both.

00:08:00 ◼   ► And uh or just or again, if you don't want to pay for a

00:08:04 ◼   ► podcast, you don't have to.

00:08:05 ◼   ► Um, and you'll get a cool second episode of me and Mike talking about

00:08:10 ◼   ► Apple stuff every week for free.

00:08:12 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't have to pay.

00:08:13 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:08:13 ◼   ► Like, it's not like you know, we we were very pleased and very thankful

00:08:18 ◼   ► for the people that are members, but we also want an audience of people

00:08:21 ◼   ► who just listen to the show every week.

00:08:22 ◼   ► Like it's important for the show to grow.

00:08:24 ◼   ► Um, like and for people to find it.

00:08:28 ◼   ► And so uh please check it out.

00:08:30 ◼   ► If you enjoy it, um please share it with friends, like share it on

00:08:33 ◼   ► social media, share it with people who you think might enjoy it too.

00:08:36 ◼   ► Um this is gonna be a big job for us uh over at least

00:08:40 ◼   ► the next year of like trying to get this project out to I think

00:08:44 ◼   ► the a lot more people in the world who might enjoy it.

00:08:47 ◼   ► So um please go please go check it out.

00:08:50 ◼   ► Now, the reason that we did not start with the draft today is because

00:08:55 ◼   ► it is the 31st of August uh 2026, which is Tim Cook's final day

00:08:59 ◼   ► as Apple CEO.

00:09:03 ◼   ► And I think me and you were talking about this last week, I think

00:08:59 ◼   ► after we recorded.

00:09:07 ◼   ► It would be very weird for us to just blow past this.

00:09:10 ◼   ► Like and just not do it.

00:09:12 ◼   ► Um considering we're recording today.

00:09:15 ◼   ► So tomorrow, September 1st, is John Turnus' first day.

00:09:19 ◼   ► So we are right on the the cusp of the Turnus era.

00:09:23 ◼   ► And the end of the Cook era is here.

00:09:32 ◼   ► But I don't think I'm not I don't expect that to happen.

00:09:36 ◼   ► Uh but hey, you never know.

00:09:37 ◼   ► But this is the day we expect it to be.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Uh and I we wanted to kind of mark that.

00:09:42 ◼   ► Um I have some some information I would like to give.

00:09:45 ◼   ► Um I did some research this morning.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Um and I'll and then we can maybe talk about it.

00:09:50 ◼   ► But I thought maybe to kind of set the scene, we could do a

00:09:53 ◼   ► little a very mini history lesson on Tim Cook.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:09:57 ◼   ► Um so Tim Donald Cook, as I found out when uh was a reminder

00:10:01 ◼   ► when me and uh Steven quizzed uh Federico and I onald Cook on Tim

00:10:05 ◼   ► Cook Trivia on Connected last week.

00:10:07 ◼   ► That's why he wears the sailor suit because he's like Donald Duck.

00:10:11 ◼   ► No, no, I get it, but uh I don't think I've I've never seen

00:10:13 ◼   ► him in a sailor suit.

00:10:14 ◼   ► Um maybe he does have one.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Anyway, so Tim joined Apple in 1998.

00:10:19 ◼   ► Uh he was recruited by Steve Jobs.

00:10:21 ◼   ► Uh he was work he'd spent most of his kind of professional career at

00:10:25 ◼   ► IBM, but he was at Compaq for a short time before uh jobs brought

00:10:30 ◼   ► him in.

00:10:30 ◼   ► He joined Apple as a vice president of worldwide operations, and essentially his first

00:10:36 ◼   ► big job was to get rid of Apple's manufacturing.

00:10:40 ◼   ► So Apple was producing a lot of its own stuff.

00:10:42 ◼   ► They had their own factories.

00:10:43 ◼   ► Not for everything, but for some stuff.

00:10:44 ◼   ► Cook got rid of all of that and started to begin contract relationships.

00:10:50 ◼   ► So this was a long-term project, which you know he has continued clearly to

00:10:55 ◼   ► be involved with and is Apple's MO to this day of establishing and maintaining

00:11:00 ◼   ► key relationships, keeping costs to a minimum, finding partners to build their products rather

00:11:04 ◼   ► than building them themselves.

00:11:06 ◼   ► In 2005, Cook became chief operating officer.

00:11:10 ◼   ► And then in 2007, Apple was restructured a little bit.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Wikipedia says that he became chief operating officer in 2007.

00:11:28 ◼   ► And this is when I was doing my research today.

00:11:48 ◼   ► It is.

00:12:15 ◼   ► 15th year as CEO before retiring.

00:12:17 ◼   ► So that was last week, which is wonderful, you know, for him.

00:12:21 ◼   ► Like what a tenure.

00:12:22 ◼   ► And as I I we joked about this during the 50th, but it's like,

00:12:25 ◼   ► what a tenure is Apple's second CEO.

00:12:27 ◼   ► You know, which is very much how the company does.

00:12:31 ◼   ► There was two of them.

00:12:32 ◼   ► There was Jobs and then there was Cook, and that's the end of it.

00:12:35 ◼   ► Don't ask any questions.

00:12:36 ◼   ► Um over Tim Cook's time at Apple, the market cap for the company has

00:12:41 ◼   ► grown from $350 billion to $4 trillion.

00:12:44 ◼   ► So what the company the company is worth in the stock market.

00:12:48 ◼   ► Yearly revenue has quadrupled in that time.

00:12:52 ◼   ► Apple's install base has grown to more than 2.5 trillion devices.

00:12:57 ◼   ► The services business was established, which is a $100 $100 billion business on its

00:13:03 ◼   ► own.

00:13:04 ◼   ► There are three new product, major product categories that were introduced under Cook, which

00:13:09 ◼   ► is the Apple Watch, the AirPods, and the Vision Pro.

00:13:13 ◼   ► I wanted to put this in, but it feels a bit reductive at the

00:13:17 ◼   ► same time, because it ignore it's like it ignores the fact that all of

00:13:21 ◼   ► the other products are doing really great.

00:13:23 ◼   ► But these are the new.

00:13:47 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:48 ◼   ► T D Cook.

00:13:49 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:13:50 ◼   ► Yep.

00:13:50 ◼   ► Teddy.

00:13:51 ◼   ► Teddy Cook.

00:13:52 ◼   ► So what are you?

00:13:53 ◼   ► Where are you feeling about this?

00:13:54 ◼   ► You know, it's it's Tim Cook's last day.

00:13:57 ◼   ► He's, you know, stepping away now from this role, uh, haven't looked after the

00:14:01 ◼   ► company for a decade and a half.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Uh yeah.

00:14:04 ◼   ► What do you how are you feeling?

00:14:05 ◼   ► And being before that, even being the person who was doing most of the

00:14:08 ◼   ► heavy lifting while Steve Jobs was getting increasingly ill.

00:14:11 ◼   ► So I mean it's been it's 15 plus yes for him, being the kind

00:14:14 ◼   ► of adult supervision and gatekeeper and whatever else of Apple.

00:14:17 ◼   ► And also the thing of like if the the role of a CEO, he

00:14:22 ◼   ► was probably just doing a lot of that always because jobs is probably most

00:14:26 ◼   ► of the executives around jobs would would were were shouldering some of the responsibilities

00:14:31 ◼   ► that a CEO would typically have.

00:14:33 ◼   ► Yes, I believe strongly that Steve Jobs in hindsight you need to look at

00:14:39 ◼   ► what Steve Jobs did as being he was focused on the stuff that he

00:14:42 ◼   ► cared about and he deputized people to care about all the stuff that he

00:14:45 ◼   ► didn't and there was a lot of stuff he didn't care about.

00:14:49 ◼   ► That's why Steve Jobs is not a great model for a CEO.

00:14:51 ◼   ► Not that he wasn't successful, but because you wouldn't say as a model, right?

00:14:58 ◼   ► You wouldn't say be a CEO like Steve Jobs to most people because it

00:15:01 ◼   ► would be a bad idea.

00:15:02 ◼   ► But it was a perfect fit for his skill set.

00:15:04 ◼   ► And then he deputized other people um I'm reading Ron Johnson's book that's coming

00:15:10 ◼   ► out.

00:15:11 ◼   ► Okay.

00:15:11 ◼   ► Um about retail and it's a similar thing.

00:15:14 ◼   ► It's like Steve Jobs finds somebody who's really great at retail and and recruits

00:15:17 ◼   ► him and says let's collaborate on building a retail store and Jobs was really

00:15:21 ◼   ► involved with that.

00:15:22 ◼   ► But like ultimately he was also letting Ron Johnson build a team and make

00:15:26 ◼   ► it happen.

00:15:27 ◼   ► And and that's I think that's good CEOing, but like even there, I think

00:15:32 ◼   ► he had Tim Cook and and uh and his CFO and you know he

00:15:36 ◼   ► was not as hands on in the same way, which I gotta say, I

00:15:41 ◼   ► I I've been saying this for a long time about Tim Cook.

00:15:44 ◼   ► Every CEO and John Turnus, every CEO brings to the party what they uh

00:15:48 ◼   ► who they are.

00:15:49 ◼   ► Yep.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And there's always gonna be a different emphasis.

00:15:52 ◼   ► It is not a one-size-fits-all position.

00:15:53 ◼   ► You are responsible for the whole company, but there are gonna be places where

00:15:57 ◼   ► you can contribute more and places where you need to think big picture and

00:15:59 ◼   ► rely on the people who are great at those things to contribute more.

00:16:04 ◼   ► And that's part of the job is if you if it's one of those

00:16:08 ◼   ► places, don't overcontribute and micromanage your people who actually know it.

00:16:13 ◼   ► Because just because you've they've made you CEO doesn't mean you know it and

00:16:16 ◼   ► understand it at the level of the people below you.

00:16:18 ◼   ► And I actually think Steve Jobs was generally seems to be a pretty good

00:16:22 ◼   ► at that.

00:16:22 ◼   ► I think Tim Cook was too.

00:16:24 ◼   ► It's just Tim Cook's interests were very different from Steve Jobs' and his skill

00:16:27 ◼   ► set.

00:16:28 ◼   ► Um it's really hard.

00:16:29 ◼   ► 15 years is a long time.

00:16:31 ◼   ► And the narratives, there have been so many narratives over there.

00:16:35 ◼   ► And it's like you can pick, you can say, oh, he was the CEO

00:16:39 ◼   ► when the Mac lost its way in the 2010s and the butterfly keyboard happened.

00:16:42 ◼   ► And, you know, obviously a lot of his stuff uh lately, uh the growth

00:16:47 ◼   ► of Apple in China and everything that goes along with that.

00:16:50 ◼   ► Apple's negotiations with the two different Trump administrations, like there's lots of baggage, there's

00:16:57 ◼   ► a lot of complexity.

00:16:58 ◼   ► 15 years is a really long time.

00:17:01 ◼   ► It's a long time.

00:17:02 ◼   ► So my primary thing, I was thinking about this.

00:17:07 ◼   ► What do I want to say primarily about Tim Cook and his tenure?

00:17:12 ◼   ► What I would say is maybe most important to remember is that I know

00:17:18 ◼   ► Apple is huge now, and that's happened mostly under his reign.

00:17:22 ◼   ► The explosive growth of the iPhone happened after Steve was gone.

00:17:30 ◼   ► To think about Tim Cook is that he was the right person for the

00:17:37 ◼   ► right time to keep Apple going and functioning and succeeding.

00:17:45 ◼   ► And that when we look back and we're like, look at look at Tim

00:17:48 ◼   ► Cook, he's a growth machine, he's an optimizer, he did all the services stuff.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Look at that.

00:17:53 ◼   ► It's easy to lose sight of the fact that Tim Cook was a crisis

00:17:59 ◼   ► CEO whose primary job was to make sure Apple didn't die.

00:18:04 ◼   ► And I know it's hard to think that way now.

00:18:06 ◼   ► And yes, Steve Jobs set him up for success.

00:18:09 ◼   ► But I'm telling you, if you take your mind back to 2012, 20, yeah,

00:18:17 ◼   ► 2012, 2011, 2011.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Um Steve Jobs was considered by most people to be a hundred percent of

00:18:31 ◼   ► Apple's value.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Bottom line.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:34 ◼   ► He was the genius, co-founder, came back.

00:18:36 ◼   ► The moment he got there, everything he touched turned to gold, which is not

00:18:39 ◼   ► true, but that's the that's the narrative.

00:18:42 ◼   ► And he invented everything, which he didn't, but he was really involved, but he

00:18:45 ◼   ► didn't invent everything, right?

00:18:46 ◼   ► It's that classic kind of like he was super important, but but also overstated

00:18:52 ◼   ► we also overstated.

00:18:53 ◼   ► And also like he sold the world on every product, right?

00:18:57 ◼   ► He would stand there and show it to you, and his showmanship would move

00:19:00 ◼   ► ships, right?

00:19:02 ◼   ► Every product except the Motorola Rocker.

00:19:04 ◼   ► Well, um so I think Tim Cook's legacy actually needs to be thought of

00:19:12 ◼   ► in terms of how do you turn Apple from a founder-led company into a

00:19:24 ◼   ► modern more broadly functional, because nobody's gonna replace Steve?

00:19:29 ◼   ► And that's an important point is you can't replace Steve Jobs.

00:19:33 ◼   ► I was so happy that Tim Cook was the guy to replace Steve Jobs

00:19:36 ◼   ► because he was so unlike Steve Jobs.

00:19:38 ◼   ► And the danger would be you'd get somebody who thought he was Steve Jobs

00:19:42 ◼   ► and isn't.

00:19:43 ◼   ► And that would be, and then like I'm just gonna do everything like Steve

00:19:46 ◼   ► did, and that was a mistake.

00:19:47 ◼   ► And so Tim Cook didn't do that.

00:19:49 ◼   ► He um he was a different guy, but you know, he, yes, he was

00:19:54 ◼   ► he was able to take the products like the iPhone that Steve Jobs had

00:20:00 ◼   ► set into motion and allow those teams to move them forward and do bigger

00:20:06 ◼   ► screens and and grow them.

00:20:07 ◼   ► And the that moment where the iPhone 6 came out and the screens got

00:20:10 ◼   ► really big, which was a couple years later, um, that's when the iPhone really

00:20:15 ◼   ► exploded in the market and Apple started on its incredible growth trajectory.

00:20:20 ◼   ► So I I think that I know this is comp complex and squishy, but

00:20:25 ◼   ► I'll just say, like, I think that's Tim Cook's actually biggest legacy is he

00:20:30 ◼   ► needed to make Apple a very different company than it was, because the company

00:20:34 ◼   ► that Apple was was Steve's company.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And although you'd say, well, what do you mean?

00:20:39 ◼   ► Apple is Steve's company is the perfect thing.

00:20:41 ◼   ► It's like not if Steve's that not there anymore.

00:20:43 ◼   ► It's not.

00:20:44 ◼   ► If Steve's not, Steve was the, he was not the only person who did

00:20:49 ◼   ► anything at Apple, but he was the mover in the center, and he was

00:20:53 ◼   ► gone.

00:20:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:54 ◼   ► And how do you survive that?

00:20:56 ◼   ► And I'm telling you, if you asked everybody in 2011 what the fate of

00:21:01 ◼   ► Apple was gonna be, and you gave them five options that went from they're

00:21:05 ◼   ► gonna, they're gonna go down and uh be irrelevant and go out of business

00:21:10 ◼   ► all the way up to what we have today 15 years later.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Nobody would pick the 15 years later that is today.

00:21:18 ◼   ► Even if Steve Jobs had lived, I don't know if you would say that

00:21:24 ◼   ► they would get to where they got.

00:21:26 ◼   ► I yeah, I well, I agree.

00:21:28 ◼   ► I think that I think that that's part of it is the the weird

00:21:31 ◼   ► thing about it is I having okay, talking about design of California.

00:21:36 ◼   ► Having read a lot about Steve at Apple before he left and when he

00:21:40 ◼   ► left, and then at Next, and then when he came back to Apple, that

00:21:44 ◼   ► whole series, I would say Steve is a very particular kind of skill set.

00:21:50 ◼   ► And he he was a he was he had great taste, he was kind

00:21:54 ◼   ► of a product visionary, he was a uh he had an innate understanding of

00:21:58 ◼   ► what Apple should and shouldn't be doing.

00:22:01 ◼   ► Um and that made him great as a turnaround person to fix Apple and

00:22:06 ◼   ► launch all those products, and he navigated that so well and built up such

00:22:10 ◼   ► a great uh collection of collaborators.

00:22:13 ◼   ► But I'm not sure Steve Jobs would have been any good at at taking

00:22:20 ◼   ► the iPhone and saying, now how do we make this a world-spanning product?

00:22:25 ◼   ► I think, in fact, Steve would be off to the next thing.

00:22:28 ◼   ► And the only way Apple would have grown at the same level that it

00:22:31 ◼   ► did if Steve, let's say Steve lived but was low power, kind of sick,

00:22:36 ◼   ► but but able to kind of be there as the executive chairman, he'd be

00:22:40 ◼   ► focused on new products.

00:22:41 ◼   ► I think that's the truth of it.

00:22:42 ◼   ► And and it the best case scenario there is that Tim would be allowed

00:22:46 ◼   ► to take the existing products and make them a huge success, like he did.

00:22:52 ◼   ► Um, so Tim Cook, right person for the right time, I would say.

00:22:56 ◼   ► However, the this cuts the other way too, which is it's 15 years where

00:23:01 ◼   ► you don't have somebody who's really focused on the products and what Apple is

00:23:06 ◼   ► supposed to be at the helm.

00:23:08 ◼   ► And I I I think I think that's okay, but I think that that's

00:23:13 ◼   ► not the only person who should have their hands on the steering wheel.

00:23:18 ◼   ► I think you need to have different people.

00:23:21 ◼   ► I feel like Apple now is at a point, and maybe has been for

00:23:24 ◼   ► a little while, where they are very optimized, but maybe not as focused on

00:23:31 ◼   ► risk taking in new products as they maybe should be.

00:23:35 ◼   ► It's kind of that innovators' dilemma thing, which is like Tim has been really

00:23:39 ◼   ► good at the optimization, but he also the more optimized you get, the more

00:23:44 ◼   ► innovators' dilemma you are, which is you're protecting what you've got and making it

00:23:49 ◼   ► worth more.

00:23:50 ◼   ► But are you doing what's next?

00:23:52 ◼   ► And so John Turnis, maybe because he was in hardware, understands that different aspect

00:23:59 ◼   ► of Apple and is more enthusiastic about doing stuff that Tim Cook would, you

00:24:03 ◼   ► know, it was just not in his nature.

00:24:05 ◼   ► So um, so I I can say simultaneously, Tim Cook deserves way more credit

00:24:09 ◼   ► than I think he's received for for stabilizing Apple and allowing it to proceed

00:24:14 ◼   ► after Steve and get out from under Steve's shadow.

00:24:17 ◼   ► Um, but also that in the long run, you a company like Apple cannot

00:24:23 ◼   ► have that person stay at charge stay in charge.

00:24:25 ◼   ► So he needed to leave.

00:24:27 ◼   ► And I think maybe he even knew that he needed to leave.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:30 ◼   ► You know, going back to what you were saying about when he took over.

00:24:34 ◼   ► Realistically, like if you were to to play it out and think about it,

00:24:38 ◼   ► you got Steve Jobs as the CEO.

00:24:41 ◼   ► You actually wouldn't end up with a less likely person than Tim to be

00:24:45 ◼   ► the one to step up, right?

00:24:46 ◼   ► Like if you just think about who the CEO of Apple is, maybe he's

00:24:52 ◼   ► not the guy you would that would have necessarily been chosen in a situation

00:24:56 ◼   ► where everything was equal, right?

00:24:57 ◼   ► Where there was no risk to jobs.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Right?

00:25:01 ◼   ► Like maybe you would try and find someone who has a bit more product

00:25:05 ◼   ► sense.

00:25:06 ◼   ► Maybe, you know, that that ends up becoming what we think of as the

00:25:09 ◼   ► Apple DNA, right?

00:25:10 ◼   ► The CEO is always a product person.

00:25:12 ◼   ► Like that is a story that you could imagine could have played out from

00:25:16 ◼   ► when jobs came back to now.

00:25:18 ◼   ► It's clearly not who Cook was, but as you say, like what they needed

00:25:23 ◼   ► was a steady hand.

00:25:25 ◼   ► I I we cannot there will be analyses that will come out, yeah, or

00:25:29 ◼   ► have already come out that will say that will focus on, well, they didn't

00:25:34 ◼   ► do another iPhone, which is asinine because there's never gonna be another iPhone.

00:25:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:38 ◼   ► Or if there is, it's not gonna be anytime soon, because that was a

00:25:42 ◼   ► really unique once-in-a-lifetime kind of product category.

00:25:46 ◼   ► Um and they're gonna miss the incredibly unlikely and difficult job he had to

00:25:55 ◼   ► do to keep Apple operating and be a functional company that could still put

00:25:59 ◼   ► out products after Steve Jobs died.

00:26:02 ◼   ► I mean, bottom line, like Steve Jobs dying, if you had asked people in

00:26:06 ◼   ► 2011, they would have said this is it forever.

00:26:09 ◼   ► They've done.

00:26:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:10 ◼   ► They've lost and I'm not sure.

00:26:13 ◼   ► They've lost the inventor and they've lost the charisma, they've lost the market and

00:26:17 ◼   ► they've lost all of it.

00:26:18 ◼   ► Yeah, they're never gonna be able to do it be without him.

00:26:22 ◼   ► And was that inaccurate at the time?

00:26:25 ◼   ► Of course it was.

00:26:26 ◼   ► But that was the perception.

00:26:28 ◼   ► Yep.

00:26:28 ◼   ► And the challenge that Cook had was um to find a way to reassure

00:26:35 ◼   ► people and to keep the company moving forward.

00:26:38 ◼   ► And then, yes, then five years in, it's all about uh explosive growth and

00:26:44 ◼   ► increasing the Apple uh valuation and all of that.

00:26:47 ◼   ► And you I mean, I could argue that Tim could have left after seven

00:26:50 ◼   ► years or ten years, and that would have been fine.

00:26:53 ◼   ► But that first five years, let's say, seven years, was enormous and incredibly important.

00:27:01 ◼   ► And now, did he make mistakes?

00:27:03 ◼   ► It's debatable in that era, but like I I have my opinions about keeping

00:27:10 ◼   ► Johnny Ive around, but I uh I I think that keeping Johnny Ive around

00:27:15 ◼   ► had a lot of caused a lot of long-term issues for Apple, but in

00:27:19 ◼   ► the short term, they had to keep Johnny Ive around because he was the

00:27:23 ◼   ► only person they had left after Steve died that they could point to and

00:27:26 ◼   ► say, see, see, the magic's still here, magic's still here.

00:27:29 ◼   ► There were because if there was anybody else who was conceived of as being

00:27:32 ◼   ► important to Apple other than Steve Jobs, it was Johnny Ive.

00:27:36 ◼   ► So that's why they kept him, even though it was super awkward and probably

00:27:40 ◼   ► led them down some paths that were unfortunate.

00:27:41 ◼   ► I think they did have to do it, and I thought that was a

00:27:44 ◼   ► canny move.

00:27:45 ◼   ► I I wish they could have concluded that relationship sooner and in a better

00:27:50 ◼   ► way, but they, you know, they are still unraveling the legacy of that decision.

00:27:54 ◼   ► But I totally understand why they did it because they needed to send a

00:27:57 ◼   ► signal to the world that there were still creative people working on products at

00:28:00 ◼   ► Apple, and that was keeping Johnny.

00:28:02 ◼   ► If Johnny I've left right after Steve Jobs died, oh m oh that would

00:28:07 ◼   ► have been disastrous.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:08 ◼   ► For perception at least.

00:28:11 ◼   ► Before we wrap this up, um Tim today sent a note to Apple employees,

00:28:18 ◼   ► kind of like a we'll call it a a blog post essentially, where he

00:28:21 ◼   ► kind of references his final day.

00:28:24 ◼   ► It is a little long, but I would like to read it 'cause I

00:28:26 ◼   ► think maybe it'd be nice to to share.

00:28:29 ◼   ► Team.

00:28:31 ◼   ► This is Tim.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Today is my last day as CEO of Apple.

00:28:34 ◼   ► This is a moment I always knew would come one day, and yet it

00:28:37 ◼   ► is still hard to believe as it arrived it has arrived and I am

00:28:40 ◼   ► writing these words.

00:28:41 ◼   ► I love this company and the team behind it.

00:28:44 ◼   ► And I couldn't let this day pass without sending a note to you to

00:28:47 ◼   ► tell you how grateful I am for the outpouring of affection you sent my

00:28:50 ◼   ► way, for the way you've shown up each and every day, and most of

00:28:53 ◼   ► all for the privilege of a lifetime serving as your leader.

00:28:56 ◼   ► The truth is whatever there is to say about my success, I know it

00:29:00 ◼   ► is all because of you.

00:29:01 ◼   ► You have brought out the best in me.

00:29:03 ◼   ► In all my life I have never seen or been with such an extraordinary

00:29:06 ◼   ► team of people before and I and every day I get to see more

00:29:09 ◼   ► examples of that.

00:29:10 ◼   ► There is something truly special about Apple.

00:29:13 ◼   ► I am proud I am most proud of what an annual report could never

00:29:16 ◼   ► capture.

00:29:17 ◼   ► The place is proof that culture triumphs over everything.

00:29:20 ◼   ► We share a belief that we will build that what we build matters and

00:29:24 ◼   ► that we have both the opportunity and the responsibility to leave the world better

00:29:28 ◼   ► than we found it.

00:29:29 ◼   ► That purpose is part of what makes this place extraordinary.

00:29:32 ◼   ► Apple helps nurture it, but I believe it lived in with within each of

00:29:37 ◼   ► you long before you arrived here.

00:29:38 ◼   ► It is what brought you to this company and what continues to drive the

00:29:42 ◼   ► work you do every day.

00:29:43 ◼   ► Together we have created something far greater than any one of us could have

00:29:47 ◼   ► imagined or accomplished alone.

00:29:48 ◼   ► And that's the secret to our success.

00:29:50 ◼   ► We bring out the best in each other.

00:29:52 ◼   ► We lift each other up.

00:29:53 ◼   ► We have made it possible to leave our quote dent in the universe, as

00:29:56 ◼   ► Steve once described it, because of who we are and what we believe, because

00:30:00 ◼   ► of what we value and how we see the world.

00:29:59 ◼   ► How fortunate we are, how fortunate I am.

00:30:05 ◼   ► As you know, I'm not leaving Apple, but I am stepping away from a

00:30:09 ◼   ► role that I have loved deeply.

00:30:10 ◼   ► I will miss the work in ways I can only begin to imagine, even

00:30:14 ◼   ► as I remain completely at peace with my decision.

00:30:16 ◼   ► I will miss leading you and being with you for every step, even as

00:30:20 ◼   ► I take enormous comfort in handing the helm to someone as brilliant and wonderful

00:30:24 ◼   ► and capable as John.

00:30:25 ◼   ► Few people understand what it takes to build products that change the way the

00:30:29 ◼   ► world the way that John does, and I could not be more excited for

00:30:33 ◼   ► his leadership.

00:30:34 ◼   ► I hope you know how much I appreciate you and what an honor it

00:30:38 ◼   ► has been to be your CEO.

00:30:39 ◼   ► Most of all, I hope you will continue to be proud to be part

00:30:43 ◼   ► of this remarkable place that we call Apple and always give it your very

00:30:47 ◼   ► best.

00:30:47 ◼   ► When we bring our whole selves to work with care for one another and

00:30:51 ◼   ► for the people we serve, there is no limit to the profound difference that

00:30:55 ◼   ► we can make.

00:31:00 ◼   ► With all I have and all I am, I am always yours, Tim.

00:31:06 ◼   ► Very beautiful.

00:31:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:08 ◼   ► Very well, last PS, last week I met Pikachu.

00:31:12 ◼   ► I love the Pokemans.

00:31:14 ◼   ► He did meet Pikachu.

00:31:15 ◼   ► I was so happy.

00:31:16 ◼   ► I know, and I just rem immediately remembered him referring to them as Pokemans.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Well, that has been resulted.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Because he's really into it.

00:31:24 ◼   ► And that's that's Tim Cook's legacy, really.

00:31:26 ◼   ► The Pokemon Pokemans.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Probably.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Probably.

00:31:30 ◼   ► Well, thank you, Tim Cook.

00:31:32 ◼   ► Congratulations.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Yeah, complex here.

00:31:35 ◼   ► Complex 15 years of a big company is complex, but um I think big

00:31:39 ◼   ► picture, job well done.

00:31:41 ◼   ► Um, and I think it's a I think there are many times that it

00:31:44 ◼   ► might have been good to go.

00:31:48 ◼   ► I think that he felt like he was he needed to hold hold the

00:31:50 ◼   ► ship together in some troubled times.

00:31:54 ◼   ► Um and uh on to the next one, right?

00:31:59 ◼   ► Like, yeah, let's let's I I can't wait to see what's next.

00:32:04 ◼   ► I'm very excited for a John Tennis coming in too.

00:32:08 ◼   ► So Yeah.

00:32:09 ◼   ► Just gonna be a good time.

00:32:10 ◼   ► It's gonna be an interesting time.

00:32:12 ◼   ► So I'm I'm very excited about that.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I I also appreciated Mark German wrote a a piece where he referred

00:32:17 ◼   ► to um Apple's executive retirement policy as the Hotel California policy.

00:32:22 ◼   ► And for those who don't get it, it's you can check out anytime you

00:32:24 ◼   ► like, but you can never leave.

00:32:26 ◼   ► Um because they don't leave mostly.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Except for Jeff Williams, who's like out of here.

00:32:32 ◼   ► I'm gone.

00:32:32 ◼   ► But pretty much they don't.

00:32:33 ◼   ► Luca Meistry's still showing up one day a week.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Tim Cook, he's still gonna be kicking around.

00:32:38 ◼   ► Well, mystery managed in the cafeteria, right?

00:32:40 ◼   ► It's just some weird thing like that.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Like is that he's in his role now is like according to German, he

00:32:45 ◼   ► comes in like one day a week, but he's still there.

00:32:47 ◼   ► And Phil Schiller, of course, has just is just an Apple fellow now, but

00:32:50 ◼   ► we also know that he runs the Apple events.

00:32:52 ◼   ► So and and maybe the App Store.

00:32:54 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:32:55 ◼   ► I personally don't believe that Schiller works any fewer days than he did before.

00:32:59 ◼   ► I don't I I I yeah, I think he's gone from being there eighty

00:33:04 ◼   ► hours a week to forty hours a week, but that's just a guess based

00:33:07 ◼   ► on he's a he's a committed.

00:33:08 ◼   ► So yeah, hotel California strategy for sure.

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00:35:09 ◼   ► Well, thanks to Fitbud for the support of this show and relay.

00:35:14 ◼   ► Just truly incredible uh real-time follow-up.

00:35:18 ◼   ► This is coming from uh the the sheriff, Mark Gurman.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Apple's Phil Schiller, one of the most visible and influential executives across both the

00:35:27 ◼   ► Steve Jobs and Tim Cook Ero's, a step down from his role leading the

00:35:31 ◼   ► app store and product events.

00:35:32 ◼   ► So it'll be a good idea.

00:35:38 ◼   ► During the ad break.

00:35:41 ◼   ► Congratulations to Phil Schiller.

00:35:42 ◼   ► I guess this is a good idea.

00:35:43 ◼   ► Congratulations to Phil.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Right?

00:35:44 ◼   ► Like this is this is actually it for him now, I suppose.

00:35:47 ◼   ► Except it's I mean, except it's not, right?

00:35:48 ◼   ► So now he's going from 80 to 40 to 20, maybe.

00:35:51 ◼   ► Ah, okay.

00:35:52 ◼   ► Because German says he will still uh he's remaining at the company with his

00:35:56 ◼   ► Apple Fellow title and told employees he'll be working on unspecified initiatives.

00:36:00 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:01 ◼   ► So this is like he's uh he's in the lobby of the hotel.

00:36:05 ◼   ► Yes.

00:36:06 ◼   ► That's where he is.

00:36:07 ◼   ► They're trying to push him out.

00:36:08 ◼   ► That's it.

00:36:08 ◼   ► Oh wow.

00:36:09 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:36:10 ◼   ► That is hilarious.

00:36:16 ◼   ► We did.

00:36:16 ◼   ► And then we made did we make this happen?

00:36:18 ◼   ► Well, we'll have to talk more about Phil Schiller maybe at a at a

00:36:21 ◼   ► later time.

00:36:22 ◼   ► But uh, but oh my god, talk about uh one of the I mean

00:36:27 ◼   ► that really makes Greg Joswiak the old uh hand who knows all the deep

00:36:35 ◼   ► lore.

00:36:36 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I genuinely though, I I just think it's all gonna change

00:36:40 ◼   ► over the next year.

00:36:40 ◼   ► Okay, I really do.

00:36:42 ◼   ► Like and it makes sense too.

00:36:43 ◼   ► Here's my like before we move on to topics.

00:36:46 ◼   ► Here's my thumbnail um take on all the Apple executive stuff, which is Apple's

00:36:50 ◼   ► executive team is really impressive and they did a lot of incredibly impressive things.

00:36:54 ◼   ► The challenge is that Apple got so successful that they all were like they

00:36:58 ◼   ► made a lot of money.

00:36:59 ◼   ► They were loving it.

00:37:01 ◼   ► These people are true believers.

00:36:59 ◼   ► A lot of them are kind of lifers, basically.

00:37:04 ◼   ► The challenge is that most organizations don't have all their executives just stay for

00:37:09 ◼   ► a decade.

00:37:10 ◼   ► And that is healthy in a way because it allows you to cycle more

00:37:14 ◼   ► people through while keeping a kind of cohesive thing.

00:37:16 ◼   ► And this has been a challenge, and we've been looking at it for years

00:37:19 ◼   ► now, where it's like all these people have to go at some point, right?

00:37:24 ◼   ► And yet they've been there so long.

00:37:26 ◼   ► And not even to get rid of them, but like just for natural uh

00:37:30 ◼   ► progression.

00:37:31 ◼   ► And so John Turnus is really that that to me is that moment where

00:37:35 ◼   ► it's like kind of feel like Vanguard's this group of people kind of bound

00:37:39 ◼   ► together in the trauma of losing Steve.

00:37:42 ◼   ► And and I think that they they were so connected.

00:37:46 ◼   ► They could it almost felt like none of them could leave.

00:37:49 ◼   ► Like it is very odd for them all have to remain so public and

00:37:55 ◼   ► in the same roles for so long.

00:37:57 ◼   ► And um, Mark Erman referred to the a lot of them as being like

00:38:00 ◼   ► their billionaires are close to it.

00:38:02 ◼   ► I mean, they the stock options have been very, very good to all of

00:38:05 ◼   ► these people.

00:38:05 ◼   ► Um David Schaub in our Discord says, let them retire.

00:38:08 ◼   ► Here's the thing, though, uh especially about this group of people, is these are

00:38:13 ◼   ► people of the kind of personality where their heart and soul is in Apple.

00:38:17 ◼   ► They feel they helped make Apple.

00:38:19 ◼   ► Apple is what they live for.

00:38:20 ◼   ► Like Phil Schiller.

00:38:21 ◼   ► He's these first on his second retirement.

00:38:24 ◼   ► Phil Schiller's dying for the second time.

00:38:26 ◼   ► Like Phil, I would talk to Phil the spring in New York.

00:38:29 ◼   ► Like, Phil doesn't do this because he needs the money.

00:38:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:33 ◼   ► Phil does it because he loves it and he thinks it matters.

00:38:37 ◼   ► And like, I think that's true for a lot of them.

00:38:41 ◼   ► Do you think Eddie Q, Eddie Q doesn't need the money?

00:38:43 ◼   ► Eddie Q loves it and he thinks it matters.

00:38:46 ◼   ► And that's the challenge, right?

00:38:48 ◼   ► Is that how do you, how do you say goodbye?

00:38:50 ◼   ► And I do wonder if Tim is look, Tim is a model, and I

00:38:53 ◼   ► think Phil is a model of we'll let you.

00:38:58 ◼   ► You're so maybe type A, you're so focused on this that you just can't

00:39:02 ◼   ► ever let it go.

00:39:03 ◼   ► Jeff Williams, again, we applaud him for saying, I'm gonna actually retire.

00:39:07 ◼   ► But um creating the Hotel California situation that says, like, yeah, why don't you

00:39:14 ◼   ► allow your lieutenant to become your job, but then take some pieces of it

00:39:18 ◼   ► and keep your hand in because you don't want to let it go completely.

00:39:22 ◼   ► That's not a bad strategy.

00:39:24 ◼   ► And it has the great advantage of keeping those older heads who know the

00:39:28 ◼   ► lore and know the history around because that is important, and you'd hate to

00:39:34 ◼   ► lose all of that.

00:39:35 ◼   ► So um, but anyway, yeah, I've got um, I mean, Phil, Phil's been doing

00:39:41 ◼   ► a long time.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Phil deserves this is what I say about all these, all these people.

00:39:44 ◼   ► And it's what I say about Tim Cook.

00:39:46 ◼   ► We can even put a button on on the Tim Cook thing again and

00:39:49 ◼   ► say, I think I said it on upgrade a few weeks ago, but like,

00:39:52 ◼   ► I just want Tim Cook to be able to have fun and and have

00:39:56 ◼   ► a good time.

00:39:57 ◼   ► And like he bought that mansion in Palm Springs, and it's like, I want

00:40:03 ◼   ► I want Tim Cook to have a to have a pool party.

00:40:05 ◼   ► I actually had a dream about Tim Cook last night.

00:40:07 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:40:07 ◼   ► Where he appeared, but he had he had like a big letterman beard.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Oh, that would be a good one.

00:40:11 ◼   ► And I was like, I was like, oh, retirement Tim Cook is doing the,

00:40:16 ◼   ► he's like David Letter.

00:40:18 ◼   ► He's just like, and he was like sunglasses, big Letterman beard, and he's just

00:40:21 ◼   ► like more wearing like a Hawaiian shirt, and he's relaxed.

00:40:24 ◼   ► And like, I want like I I think it would be a shame if

00:40:28 ◼   ► they were so focused on Apple and their work that they didn't allow themselves

00:40:34 ◼   ► uh retirement to have a good time and relax a little.

00:40:38 ◼   ► So I hope they all get there, but I think it it one of

00:40:41 ◼   ► the reasons they've stuck around is because this is their life and they love

00:40:45 ◼   ► it.

00:40:45 ◼   ► Yeah, and I get it.

00:40:48 ◼   ► All right, before we get to the draft, Apple released new Macs, or at

00:40:52 ◼   ► least New Macs.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Well, not released.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Apple has shown announced new Macs on Tuesday last week.

00:40:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:59 ◼   ► So that is uh Mac Mini with either an M6 chip, the first time

00:41:04 ◼   ► we've seen the M6 or the M5 Pro.

00:41:06 ◼   ► And then also the M5 Max and M5 Ultra Mac Studios.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Uh you got the you got information about this.

00:41:15 ◼   ► You wrote about it uh on six colors.

00:41:17 ◼   ► Yep.

00:41:17 ◼   ► Um, I guess kind of a couple of highlights, right?

00:41:20 ◼   ► The M6 chip is the first two nanometer chip.

00:41:23 ◼   ► Um this is potentially the chip that Apple's gonna jump over, according to Mark

00:41:28 ◼   ► Gurman.

00:41:29 ◼   ► Uh well, the it's the chip family Apple's gonna jump over.

00:41:32 ◼   ► They they wanted to rev the M5 to the M6, but they according to

00:41:36 ◼   ► Mark German decided to take a jump after that rather than building out the

00:41:41 ◼   ► M6 Pro and Max and go to an M7 generation next year.

00:41:45 ◼   ► Um, it is really an interesting chip though, even as a base model, and

00:41:50 ◼   ► I think the most interesting thing about it, if you haven't been following this

00:41:53 ◼   ► closely, is not only is it a 12 core CPU in a base chip,

00:41:58 ◼   ► which is wild, right?

00:41:59 ◼   ► It's like, oh yeah, this is my MacBook Air with my 12 core CPU,

00:42:02 ◼   ► but the way they've designed it, remember last in the M5 generation.

00:42:06 ◼   ► Remember, remember they had they had those chips that they said, you know, we

00:42:09 ◼   ► said these were performance cores, they're actually supercores.

00:42:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:12 ◼   ► Um, and then they also had performance cores that were different, and it was

00:42:16 ◼   ► very confusing, but they were all in different chips.

00:42:14 ◼   ► In the M6, they're all in there.

00:42:19 ◼   ► There are three different core styles in the M6.

00:42:24 ◼   ► And they've decided apparently that one of the more efficient ways to handle performance

00:42:31 ◼   ► on Apple's OS is by having three different kinds of chips.

00:42:35 ◼   ► The efficiency cores, which are really good at low power CPU cores in the

00:42:40 ◼   ► chips.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Okay, so the efficiency cores, um, they're good at low power and great for

00:42:47 ◼   ► background tasks and just kind of like bubbling away in the background, keeping your

00:42:50 ◼   ► computer running, but not working too hard, saving power, saving battery.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Performance cores are good at multi-threading.

00:42:59 ◼   ► So a lot of apps uh running multiple apps at once, running apps that

00:43:03 ◼   ► have a lot of different threads that are running.

00:43:06 ◼   ► That this is your uh your geekbench multi-core score comes out of this.

00:43:11 ◼   ► The idea that you're you're running how how fast can this thing run if

00:43:16 ◼   ► I really need to run a lot of stuff at once.

00:43:18 ◼   ► The per the there are four performance cores, and it will run all the

00:43:21 ◼   ► cores, but the four performance cores are designed to work really well on multi-threaded

00:43:25 ◼   ► stuff.

00:43:25 ◼   ► And then there are two super cores, and the super cores are optimized for

00:43:29 ◼   ► single threaded, they are super fast at running uh give it a thread.

00:43:35 ◼   ► So if you have a task, and this is all scheduled by the system.

00:43:38 ◼   ► So if you have a task that is incredibly beefy, that is just on

00:43:42 ◼   ► a single thread, the system scheduler will put it on a super core and

00:43:46 ◼   ► it will crank.

00:43:46 ◼   ► And so you will get your you will get your best single core geekbench

00:43:51 ◼   ► score out of that.

00:43:52 ◼   ► So they've decided that it this is the way they want to build it,

00:43:55 ◼   ► is they want some performance, they want some multi-thread, and they want some single

00:43:58 ◼   ► core performance, and then by the system uh choosing how it uses those cores,

00:43:59 ◼   ► you get the best balance of power saving and power at once.

00:44:09 ◼   ► The M6 also has two neural engines, which is interesting.

00:44:16 ◼   ► Buy one, get one.

00:44:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I find that really interesting that instead of like in improving performance of

00:44:23 ◼   ► the neural engine, they just put in a second.

00:44:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Throw it in there.

00:44:27 ◼   ► The 12 core GPU also has a neural accelerator on every core rather than

00:44:31 ◼   ► just one.

00:44:32 ◼   ► I feel like it's interesting you see this, like it feels like they're doing

00:44:35 ◼   ► a lot.

00:44:36 ◼   ► I mean, they're getting a lot of AI performance, local AI performance out of

00:44:39 ◼   ► this.

00:44:39 ◼   ► Some some of the quoted AI performance boosts in the M6 is due to

00:44:43 ◼   ► the fact that Apple is comparing it with the Mac Mini to the M4.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Sure.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Because they did a bunch of neural accelerator stuff in M5 generation, but the

00:44:51 ◼   ► Mac Mini didn't have an M5.

00:44:53 ◼   ► So they can do some comparisons to the previous Mac Mini.

00:44:56 ◼   ► Right.

00:44:56 ◼   ► That when they when they upgrade a system that had an M5, they're not

00:44:59 ◼   ► going to be able to make those claims.

00:45:01 ◼   ► They're going to have to compare it to the M5 Air when they put

00:45:04 ◼   ► it in the M6 Air, assuming they do, that sort of thing.

00:45:07 ◼   ► But yeah, they're they're pushing ahead with this is the thing too.

00:45:11 ◼   ► They've had the neural engine for a long time, but then they realize that

00:45:13 ◼   ► there's still a bunch of stuff where people just want to run AI stuff

00:45:16 ◼   ► on GPUs.

00:45:16 ◼   ► And so they're like, all right, okay, we will make our GPUs better at

00:45:19 ◼   ► AI stuff too.

00:45:20 ◼   ► But it's interesting if the M7 generation is supposed to be the AI generation.

00:45:24 ◼   ► Like what what here do they push, you know, to to get to get

00:45:29 ◼   ► to that.

00:45:29 ◼   ► Um, so that's going to be interesting.

00:45:31 ◼   ► How much of that is in the Pro and the Max versus the base

00:45:33 ◼   ► model?

00:45:34 ◼   ► We'll have to see, right?

00:45:35 ◼   ► Because that's the clearly the the the limiter.

00:45:37 ◼   ► I think the big bummer of all of this is, you know, not only

00:45:41 ◼   ► is it more expensive, that the the the mini now starts at $8.99.

00:45:45 ◼   ► Wow up from $7.99.

00:45:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:44 ◼   ► But then you have to remember that $7.99 is the price they raised it

00:45:50 ◼   ► to.

00:45:44 ◼   ► From $4.99.

00:45:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:53 ◼   ► And so overall, the uh it's 50% more expensive at the base than the

00:45:58 ◼   ► M4 Mini was when it was introduced in March of last year.

00:46:02 ◼   ► So in a short period of time, the um the Mac Mini has gone

00:46:07 ◼   ► from being what, I think $5.99.

00:46:10 ◼   ► Yeah, $599, $2599 to being $8.99.

00:46:14 ◼   ► And like, I get it.

00:46:17 ◼   ► We all know why.

00:46:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:18 ◼   ► But I I was I was saying this um over the weekend, I was

00:46:23 ◼   ► talking, I think it's actually to Dan for Six Colors, because we were in

00:46:27 ◼   ► person at WorldCon in Orange County.

00:46:29 ◼   ► Um, and we did a live Six Colors podcast in a secret lobby beneath

00:46:33 ◼   ► the lobby of the Hilton.

00:46:34 ◼   ► Anyway, um the feels to me, and I talked about this with Andy on

00:46:40 ◼   ► Mac Break Weekly too.

00:46:41 ◼   ► I I I feel like I know why it's $8.99, but the Mac Mini

00:46:46 ◼   ► at $599, uh and I know this is all kind of like squishy and

00:46:51 ◼   ► perceptual, but like that felt like if not an impulse buy, it felt like,

00:46:58 ◼   ► you know, I could use a new Mac Mini.

00:47:01 ◼   ► That I a new base model Mac Mini, you know, good enough for Marco.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Like I I could use one of those, and I you know, the one

00:47:08 ◼   ► I've got is fine, but like I could use one.

00:47:10 ◼   ► I'm gonna pop it in there.

00:47:11 ◼   ► Six six ninety nine, five nine, five ninety nine.

00:47:13 ◼   ► Like, yeah, great, great, great.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Let's pop it in there.

00:47:16 ◼   ► And eight ninety nine doesn't feel like that.

00:47:18 ◼   ► I I mean, I think that that's it.

00:47:19 ◼   ► When you're when you're dealing with prices like this, it it goes from being,

00:47:23 ◼   ► if not an impulse buy, a fairly easy sell.

00:47:26 ◼   ► This is a good deal.

00:47:27 ◼   ► Uh why don't you just get one?

00:47:28 ◼   ► To being like, say 99.

00:47:31 ◼   ► I think that's just where we are kind of meets the Mac mini's current

00:47:29 ◼   ► moment.

00:47:35 ◼   ► Like I I would expect more people are buying Mac minis at the moment

00:47:39 ◼   ► to do AI stuff on than anything else.

00:47:42 ◼   ► I'm not sure they're buying the base model, but you know, maybe buying the

00:47:46 ◼   ► base model.

00:47:47 ◼   ► Like whatever, right?

00:47:48 ◼   ► It just well, and here's the truth.

00:47:50 ◼   ► So we got it, we got a it might even be an ask upgrade,

00:47:53 ◼   ► but I could like pull it up here, which is the question is, you

00:47:55 ◼   ► know, what does this say about affordability versus what they're doing with the MacBook

00:47:59 ◼   ► Neo?

00:48:00 ◼   ► And my answer is what is a desktop Mac for?

00:48:03 ◼   ► Because the truth is, again, three-quarters of the Macs that are sold are laptops.

00:48:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:07 ◼   ► Apple's affordability story is the MacBook Neo.

00:48:10 ◼   ► It's not the Mac Mini.

00:48:12 ◼   ► And it has been the Mac Mini in the past.

00:48:14 ◼   ► I wanted to say it's not the Mac Mini.

00:48:16 ◼   ► It's never been the Mac Mini, but that's not true because desktops used to

00:48:19 ◼   ► matter more, but they don't matter as much now.

00:48:21 ◼   ► And you're right, it is meeting the moment.

00:48:23 ◼   ► It's unfortunate because there are a lot of people who view still view the

00:48:26 ◼   ► Mac Mini through a different lens where it's sort of like this is the

00:48:29 ◼   ► little cog that I can buy and stick into my workflow somewhere and it's

00:48:32 ◼   ► $6.99 or $5.99 or whatever.

00:48:34 ◼   ► Like it's it's cheap.

00:48:35 ◼   ► Um that is not happening right now.

00:48:37 ◼   ► But you're right, it is meeting the moment in another way, which is who's

00:48:41 ◼   ► buying a desktop Mac.

00:48:43 ◼   ► A lot of it it's servers and AI stuff.

00:48:45 ◼   ► And it is that is where it's been successful.

00:48:48 ◼   ► I I would imagine that when this all blows over, that Apple will try

00:48:51 ◼   ► to get a base Mac Mini back down in price, because I'm sure they're

00:48:54 ◼   ► not satisfied with their cheap desktop being $8.99, but this is where we are

00:48:59 ◼   ► right now.

00:49:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like my feeling on it right now is you know, you as

00:49:05 ◼   ► Apple, you could you can approach this in two ways, right?

00:49:08 ◼   ► You can continue pushing the Mac forward and putting up the price, or you

00:49:13 ◼   ► can stop, right?

00:49:14 ◼   ► Like you can you can stop pushing the Mac forward and just somehow try

00:49:18 ◼   ► and protect the price.

00:49:19 ◼   ► I don't know how you do that, but those are your two options, right?

00:49:21 ◼   ► You at the moment.

00:49:22 ◼   ► They're just taking the punch now.

00:49:23 ◼   ► They know they can't do it right now.

00:49:24 ◼   ► So they're not.

00:49:25 ◼   ► At the moment, you have to just continue and you have to put up

00:49:28 ◼   ► the prices because that's just the the way that it is.

00:49:31 ◼   ► And my feeling, you know, kind of like comparing, say, the Mac Mini and

00:49:35 ◼   ► the MacBook Neo, is I would like Apple to charge as much money as

00:49:39 ◼   ► they possibly can for the Mac Mini to protect the price of the MacBook

00:49:42 ◼   ► Neo.

00:49:43 ◼   ► Like make the people that want to buy three of these to run codecs

00:49:49 ◼   ► perplexity computer and and claw code on it in a room somewhere, make them

00:49:54 ◼   ► pay $900 each and then protect the price of the MacBook Neo for actually

00:49:59 ◼   ► the people that need a cheaper Mac.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Like, because if this is where it's going right now, I just say go

00:50:04 ◼   ► ahead and do that.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Like that that would be my preference.

00:50:07 ◼   ► Like and you make make the people that are making this more expensive, make

00:50:10 ◼   ► them pay for this and keep and protect other people.

00:50:14 ◼   ► That would be my preference on the way that these things are going right

00:50:17 ◼   ► now.

00:50:17 ◼   ► But we also have the uh ultra, so we finally have uh uh M5

00:50:22 ◼   ► Ultra, so we have a new Ultra chip.

00:50:24 ◼   ► Um with this, Apple has introduced next generation ultra fusion technology to form a

00:50:32 ◼   ► quad die architecture for the first time.

00:50:34 ◼   ► This is enabling them to give up to 26 CPU cores, 80 GPU cores,

00:50:39 ◼   ► and a max RAM of $512 gigahythes.

00:50:42 ◼   ► This computer is very expensive.

00:50:44 ◼   ► It starts at five thousand four hundred and ninety-nine dollars.

00:50:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it's two, it's two M5 Macs uh together in the chiplet is basically

00:50:51 ◼   ► how it works.

00:50:51 ◼   ► M5 maxes, M5's Mac uh Maxes.

00:50:56 ◼   ► Anyway, uh it's an ultra, you're doing the ultra thing.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Um and the 512 is like they're not even selling it yet, and it

00:50:59 ◼   ► will cost a fortune.

00:51:06 ◼   ► I think they're not selling it yet because they're using all the RAM that

00:51:09 ◼   ► they need to buy the systems that are gonna have a higher volume, which

00:51:11 ◼   ► is the ones that don't cost whatever that's gonna cost.

00:51:14 ◼   ► It's probably one of the reasons why it's like a three or four month

00:51:17 ◼   ► uh four-week lead time on order against before you get it, right?

00:51:20 ◼   ► It also is elevated.

00:51:22 ◼   ► The Mac Studio was already kind of like headed there.

00:51:24 ◼   ► The original Mac Studio was not that like that.

00:51:26 ◼   ► I mean, I have one, I bought one, but we are in we are

00:51:30 ◼   ► in Mac Pro territory when it comes to the Ultra.

00:51:32 ◼   ► This is Mac Pro territory, and as ridiculous as these prices seem, I am

00:51:37 ◼   ► telling you, there are people who want to do um local AI who are

00:51:42 ◼   ► going to buy multiple highest end uh M5 Ultra Max Studios and connect them

00:51:48 ◼   ► via Thunderbolt and build a cluster like the one that Apple showed at WWDC

00:51:54 ◼   ► because as local AI performance goes, it is gonna be amazing, but yeah, it's

00:52:03 ◼   ► gonna be people and companies who are buying it because it's gonna cost like

00:52:07 ◼   ► a hundred thousand dollars.

00:52:11 ◼   ► But you know, for them, they'll be like, that's actually a pretty good deal.

00:52:14 ◼   ► And that's just how it's weird right now.

00:52:15 ◼   ► But that's the that product is getting elevated out of regular consumer talk.

00:52:21 ◼   ► And and that's you know, it's just a different, it's an opportunity for Apple

00:52:25 ◼   ► to make a lot of profit margin on very high end.

00:52:28 ◼   ► And sometimes Mac Pro was like this for a while too.

00:52:32 ◼   ► Sometimes that's what the product is.

00:52:33 ◼   ► It's not like not all products are for us, people.

00:52:37 ◼   ► They're for people with you know, they're they're for companies that have very specific

00:52:41 ◼   ► applications, and that is kind of where Mac Studio and M5 Ultra is, and

00:52:44 ◼   ► that's fine.

00:52:46 ◼   ► Like they tech companies love the AI revolution in part because it's created a

00:52:54 ◼   ► market at the super high end for very high and high profit margin systems

00:52:59 ◼   ► at a in an era where so much of what even a high-end user

00:53:05 ◼   ► used to need to accomplish can be done by what are essentially consumer products.

00:53:09 ◼   ► Like MacBook Air is a perfectly good HD video editor.

00:53:15 ◼   ► So like Apple is left saying, and that this was one of their examples.

00:53:18 ◼   ► People are like, oh, it's all AI examples.

00:53:20 ◼   ► That's not true.

00:53:20 ◼   ► Apple still does creative examples when they roll these products out.

00:53:23 ◼   ► But these days their their creative examples are like real-time rendering of enormous 3D

00:53:28 ◼   ► spaces and 8k color correction and division DaVinci Resolve.

00:53:34 ◼   ► Like they have had to push it to the limit because their less capable

00:53:38 ◼   ► computers are more than capable enough to do lots and lots and lots of

00:53:42 ◼   ► formerly kind of pro system only jobs.

00:53:45 ◼   ► So how do you sell an expensive system with a lot of margin?

00:53:48 ◼   ► And AI comes along and you're like, oh, thank goodness.

00:53:51 ◼   ► There's a thing we can do.

00:53:52 ◼   ► So that's what Apple's doing.

00:53:54 ◼   ► Yep.

00:53:55 ◼   ► So we're happy there's more Macs.

00:53:58 ◼   ► It's interesting that they've announced them at the time that they did.

00:54:02 ◼   ► Obviously, they I don't know if they ever would have played a part in

00:54:04 ◼   ► the September event, but they're not there.

00:54:07 ◼   ► I think they're held over from June.

00:54:08 ◼   ► They probably ship them out.

00:54:10 ◼   ► Yeah, because it also it's like is there gonna be another event?

00:54:13 ◼   ► Maybe maybe, right?

00:54:15 ◼   ► And that's when we'll probably get if we're going to get the new MacBook

00:54:19 ◼   ► Pro this year, it would be later in the year, but who knows?

00:54:22 ◼   ► But yeah, this this absolutely feels like the product that we were waiting for

00:54:26 ◼   ► that is just taking a while for them to get it all together again.

00:54:29 ◼   ► But I'm happy that they're doing it.

00:54:31 ◼   ► I mean, it's to say the prices are just upsetting, but I'm I'm happy

00:54:29 ◼   ► that they're just going to continue.

00:54:36 ◼   ► And I hope that when this current moment changes that prices will come down

00:54:41 ◼   ► again.

00:54:41 ◼   ► Um, but in the meantime, here they are.

00:54:47 ◼   ► Jason, it is September, essentially.

00:54:49 ◼   ► It is.

00:54:50 ◼   ► September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:54:54 ◼   ► For the eighth time, the relay community is coming together in support of St.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Jude for ch for childhood cancer awareness month.

00:55:02 ◼   ► Every year, for so many years now, uh, we have come together and raise

00:55:06 ◼   ► money as a community.

00:55:07 ◼   ► Uh, we're knocking on the door of five million dollars raised uh in that

00:55:11 ◼   ► time, which is truly an unbelievable statistic, and we are all so grateful for

00:55:17 ◼   ► the support that uh our audience, our community shows uh each and every year

00:55:21 ◼   ► that has gotten us to raising so much money for the kids of St.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Jude.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Before St.

00:55:26 ◼   ► Jude opened in 1962, childhood cancer was largely considered incurable.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Today, thanks in part to better therapies that are developed at St.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Jude, they've helped to more than 80% of US childhood cancer patients are surviving,

00:55:40 ◼   ► which is an incredible, incredible statistic.

00:55:42 ◼   ► It's actually flipped in that time period, um, where it's gone from 2080 to

00:55:47 ◼   ► 8020.

00:55:48 ◼   ► It's it's unbelievable.

00:55:49 ◼   ► And this is, you know, St.

00:55:51 ◼   ► Jude, it is their care for some of the world's sickest children, regardless of

00:55:55 ◼   ► their race, ethnicity, beliefs, or ability to pay is what's making the difference.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Is patients receive customized care that they need to treat childhood cancer and other

00:56:03 ◼   ► life-threatening diseases, no matter what barriers they face.

00:56:06 ◼   ► Because of supporters like you, Saint Jude can provide children with cutting edge treatments

00:56:11 ◼   ► not covered by insurance.

00:56:13 ◼   ► We've mentioned this before, but you know, the thing that kind of pulls us

00:56:16 ◼   ► all together is the fact that they saved Stephen Hackett's son, Josiah.

00:56:21 ◼   ► They saved his life from when he was a little baby.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Um he had a brain tumor, and Saint Jude have gotten him to the

00:56:27 ◼   ► you know, he's I think he's 16 now.

00:56:30 ◼   ► Like 17, maybe I'm 17.

00:56:33 ◼   ► The kid's a man, you know, and that that is thanks to Saint Jude.

00:56:37 ◼   ► Like, and Josiah is just one of the greatest people I've ever had the

00:56:42 ◼   ► pleasure of meeting.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Um, and and seeing him and seeing the care that St.

00:56:48 ◼   ► Jude had for him and his family is what is what brought us all

00:56:53 ◼   ► in to wanting to raise money.

00:56:55 ◼   ► But then over these years, um, as I've been uh St.

00:56:59 ◼   ► Jude so many times now, you've been joining us too so many times as

00:57:03 ◼   ► well, Jason.

00:57:04 ◼   ► Now I feel like my purpose for St.

00:57:06 ◼   ► Jude is just extended to helping all of these children, you know.

00:57:10 ◼   ► Like at first, we were very focused on like we want to thank Saint

00:57:13 ◼   ► Jude and give back to them for saving Josiah.

00:57:16 ◼   ► But now I've I've seen so many stories and I've spoken to so many

00:57:20 ◼   ► families and so many doctors and so many patients that now it just feels

00:57:25 ◼   ► like it just a drive that I have to use our incredible platform and

00:57:31 ◼   ► uh speak to our wonderful audience to encourage them to give money every year

00:57:36 ◼   ► because it makes a massive difference to these families and to these children.

00:57:43 ◼   ► This September, you can help St.

00:57:45 ◼   ► Jude give kids with cancer hope for more tomorrow's.

00:57:48 ◼   ► We're inviting you as the relay community to help us reach our goal of

00:57:52 ◼   ► $700,000 this year for childhood cancer awareness Month.

00:57:56 ◼   ► As always, there are multiple ways to support the campaign.

00:57:59 ◼   ► Go to Saint Jude.org slash relay and make a donation.

00:58:03 ◼   ► Your donation can unlock some great reward rewards.

00:58:05 ◼   ► Donations, uh donors, I should say, making an individual gift of sixty dollars or

00:58:09 ◼   ► more will be able to redeem a digital bundle of campaign themed warpers in

00:58:13 ◼   ► Mac OS Screensaver.

00:58:15 ◼   ► Donors making a gift of a hundred dollars or more can redeem the 2026

00:58:19 ◼   ► Western themed sticker pack.

00:58:21 ◼   ► The theming this year made by Jelly, our wonderful friend, is truly amazing.

00:58:27 ◼   ► Just go to Saint Jude.org slash relay just to look at the art this

00:58:32 ◼   ► year.

00:58:32 ◼   ► It is fantastic, and then of course, make a donation.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Give them more tomorrows.

00:58:37 ◼   ► Go to Saint Jude.org slash relay to donate or start a fundraiser today.

00:58:48 ◼   ► It is time for the draft.

00:58:52 ◼   ► Oh, it is.

00:58:53 ◼   ► It is the band.

00:58:53 ◼   ► The marching band has been has marched in.

00:58:56 ◼   ► We have ushered out the summer of fun.

00:58:59 ◼   ► And now the sun sets on the summer of fun.

00:59:02 ◼   ► Goodbye, and uh and here we are.

00:59:06 ◼   ► It's draft time.

00:59:07 ◼   ► It's draft time.

00:59:08 ◼   ► These are the rules for the September 2026 draft.

00:59:13 ◼   ► There are 13 rounds, 26 overall picks.

00:59:18 ◼   ► The draft will be split into two categories.

00:59:21 ◼   ► We have eight iPhone picks and five other picks.

00:59:25 ◼   ► The draft champion gets first pick.

00:59:27 ◼   ► That is Jason as the reigning defender.

00:59:30 ◼   ► Draft Champion.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Items are chosen from a predetermined list of choices.

00:59:34 ◼   ► We have agreed they could be verifiable on screen and not ridiculously obvious.

00:59:39 ◼   ► For an item to count, it must either be clearly announced on stage or

00:59:43 ◼   ► on a slide during the presentation.

00:59:45 ◼   ► Our friend Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in case of a scoring stalemate.

00:59:49 ◼   ► There are no partial points awarded.

00:59:51 ◼   ► The points awarded on the episode of final and finalized during the scoring segment.

00:59:56 ◼   ► In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question.

00:59:58 ◼   ► The draft challenger, which is me, gets the pick of the dra of the

01:00:01 ◼   ► tiebreaker question, and the draft champion has to give an answer.

01:00:06 ◼   ► The winner becomes the draft champion and will display the champion pennant.

01:00:10 ◼   ► The loser becomes the draft challenger and displays the challenger pennant.

01:00:15 ◼   ► I will say, like, since we, you know, obviously we did the show on

01:00:17 ◼   ► YouTube.

01:00:18 ◼   ► Um the the video version of this show really enforces the the fact that

01:00:25 ◼   ► like because the pennants existed for a long time.

01:00:28 ◼   ► But you get the opportunity uh behind me, always it says the word challenger.

01:00:33 ◼   ► And behind you, it says the word champion.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Champion.

01:00:37 ◼   ► Until it changes.

01:00:39 ◼   ► You can play along at home during the keynote using our interactive scorecard.

01:00:43 ◼   ► You can find that over at upgrade.cards that is made and maintained by the

01:00:47 ◼   ► wonderful Zoe Knox, who is a moderator in our Discord.

01:00:50 ◼   ► And you can buy your own draft tea.

01:00:52 ◼   ► I am wearing mine proudly today by going to upgrade your wardrobe.com and you

01:00:57 ◼   ► can support the draft whenever we play it.

01:01:01 ◼   ► So far this year, there have been three drafts.

01:01:05 ◼   ► There was a draft of the ages because we hit episode who even knows,

01:01:09 ◼   ► what, 600?

01:01:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:09 ◼   ► And I won that.

01:01:12 ◼   ► Then Jason finally brought the draft challenger pennant back home to Mill Valley by

01:01:19 ◼   ► winning the expensive.

01:01:20 ◼   ► I feel like my challenger side of my pennant is like sun faded now.

01:01:25 ◼   ► It was just out there so long.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Oh, really?

01:01:28 ◼   ► Uh yeah, okay.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Uh uh, so you won the this was the MacBook Neo event.

01:01:33 ◼   ► You won the draft for that.

01:01:34 ◼   ► We knew something was coming.

01:01:35 ◼   ► We did the draft.

01:01:36 ◼   ► The New York experience.

01:01:37 ◼   ► And you successfully defended WWDC.

01:01:40 ◼   ► So Jason is our current draft champion.

01:01:43 ◼   ► This is our 11th September draft.

01:01:45 ◼   ► Doing this a long time.

01:01:46 ◼   ► Not as long as Tim Cook was CEO, but close.

01:01:48 ◼   ► So we have done 10 so far.

01:01:49 ◼   ► Jason has won six, and I have won four.

01:01:52 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:01:53 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:01:54 ◼   ► We have a tiebreaker.

01:01:56 ◼   ► Okay.

01:01:56 ◼   ► As we uh want to do.

01:01:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna choose event runtime.

01:02:01 ◼   ► Okay.

01:02:02 ◼   ► I today went through the last six events and looked at their runtime.

01:02:09 ◼   ► Uh very quickly.

01:02:12 ◼   ► An hour and twelve minutes to 2025, and I'll go back put an hour

01:02:15 ◼   ► and 40, hour and 38, hour and 22, hour and 35, one hour and

01:02:20 ◼   ► 19, one hour and four minutes in 2020.

01:02:23 ◼   ► I thought about clicking that video just to see, and I was like, that's

01:02:26 ◼   ► gonna be sad.

01:02:26 ◼   ► I don't want to see that.

01:02:27 ◼   ► I'm gonna get sad.

01:02:28 ◼   ► I'm gonna get sad if I see that.

01:02:30 ◼   ► So I was thinking, Jason, I had to really put some thought into this.

01:02:34 ◼   ► I'll tell you my number and I'll tell you how I got here.

01:02:36 ◼   ► So I'm setting the over under an hour and thirty-five minutes.

01:02:39 ◼   ► Oh wow, okay.

01:02:41 ◼   ► Now I really went back and forward on this one a bit today because

01:02:45 ◼   ► it's like, well, there are less iPhones potentially in this than normal because we're

01:02:51 ◼   ► dropping some, but we're adding in a folding phone, and they're gonna want to

01:02:55 ◼   ► spend a lot of time on that.

01:02:57 ◼   ► Sure.

01:02:57 ◼   ► And we also reckon maybe home stuff.

01:03:03 ◼   ► Maybe home stuff.

01:03:05 ◼   ► And so it's like, are you gonna do all of that?

01:03:07 ◼   ► And and it's gonna be a new CEO.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Are they gonna do anything different?

01:03:12 ◼   ► So I'm like, well, I'm going on the longer side and I'm going for

01:03:16 ◼   ► an hour and thirty-five minutes.

01:03:18 ◼   ► So I lost this draft so many times in a row that I um

01:03:24 ◼   ► I just reflexively look at the overunder running times and try to decide what

01:03:28 ◼   ► I would set the overunder at.

01:03:30 ◼   ► Yep.

01:03:31 ◼   ► And so I did that this time, not even thinking of the fact that,

01:03:33 ◼   ► oh, Mike's gonna set it.

01:03:35 ◼   ► I don't even have to worry about it.

01:03:37 ◼   ► Um just to be clear here, you're setting it at 135.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:41 ◼   ► Which is longer than all but one of the previous six fall events.

01:03:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:48 ◼   ► That is bold.

01:03:49 ◼   ► Yeah, man.

01:03:50 ◼   ► That is bold.

01:03:51 ◼   ► I think I think it's gonna be a lot of stuff.

01:03:54 ◼   ► Okay.

01:03:54 ◼   ► I I I don't disagree.

01:03:56 ◼   ► I I um I would say that the number I was gonna pick is

01:04:00 ◼   ► lower, so I'm gonna say under.

01:04:02 ◼   ► Just for record's sake, what was your number?

01:04:06 ◼   ► What would you have picked?

01:04:07 ◼   ► 125.

01:04:08 ◼   ► So not that much different.

01:04:10 ◼   ► Not that much.

01:04:10 ◼   ► You were also thinking this is on the longer side.

01:04:14 ◼   ► I I think longer than the 111 and the 118, but I don't I

01:04:18 ◼   ► I didn't think it would be, you know, up in the 138 range.

01:04:21 ◼   ► So I'm gonna go under.

01:04:23 ◼   ► Um, I might have said it too far under, but I get I get

01:04:26 ◼   ► an extra 10 minutes because you set it a little higher.

01:04:28 ◼   ► So I'll take it all.

01:04:29 ◼   ► I'll take the I'll take the under.

01:04:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Well, we'll see.

01:04:35 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:04:37 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Notion.

01:04:39 ◼   ► There are things, there are lots of things that AI can replace, but teamwork,

01:04:43 ◼   ► it isn't one of them.

01:04:44 ◼   ► Nobody wants a future where every company is one founder of a fleet of

01:04:48 ◼   ► agents.

01:04:48 ◼   ► Who would want that?

01:04:49 ◼   ► Uh, it might be efficient, but work has always been about more than just

01:04:54 ◼   ► the work.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Nothing can replace the feeling of figuring something out with your team.

01:04:58 ◼   ► And that's what the folks at Notion are building, and that is why it

01:05:03 ◼   ► is so great.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Now let me tell you, Notion is becoming more and more and more of

01:05:08 ◼   ► my life.

01:05:10 ◼   ► We are using it at Design in California to plan out the all of

01:05:16 ◼   ► the series that we're doing.

01:05:17 ◼   ► It is allowing us to, you know, Notion at the moment are talking about

01:05:21 ◼   ► think together.

01:05:21 ◼   ► Like that's like a thing that they're focusing on.

01:05:23 ◼   ► And I would say that Notion is absolutely helping me and Jason do that.

01:05:28 ◼   ► We're able to plan out the shows that we're uh wanting to produce and

01:05:31 ◼   ► the series that we're wanting to produce.

01:05:33 ◼   ► Um, then we're able to we also got a bunch of like just like

01:05:36 ◼   ► documents in there that we're sharing, you know, like these are expenses and that

01:05:39 ◼   ► kind of stuff.

01:05:40 ◼   ► But then also I'm taking transcripts of our episodes and I'm saving them in

01:05:45 ◼   ► Notion, and then I can use Notion's AI features to search through those transcripts

01:05:50 ◼   ► for later date because it's also like this knowledge base where we're able to

01:05:54 ◼   ► save things for the future, and it's allowing us to connect together and really

01:05:58 ◼   ► like work out how we want to plan out our show.

01:06:00 ◼   ► So Notion is unparalleled for this.

01:06:02 ◼   ► Notion is the AI workspace where your team's knowledge, projects, and agents can all

01:06:06 ◼   ► come together in one place.

01:06:07 ◼   ► Teams using Notion move faster, cut friction and costs by consolidating tools, and stay

01:06:13 ◼   ► aligned.

01:06:14 ◼   ► In Notion, your documents, your meetings, projects, and more all live in one connected

01:06:19 ◼   ► system where your AI has the context that it needs to help you do

01:06:22 ◼   ► your best work, is seamlessly integrated, infinitely flexible, and beautifully easy to use.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Because everything lives together.

01:06:30 ◼   ► Notion has the context that it needs to answer your questions straight away, automate

01:06:34 ◼   ► your busy work and keep things moving.

01:06:36 ◼   ► It's AI that is designed to strengthen teamwork, not replace it, which I love.

01:06:41 ◼   ► We have over a hundred million users.

01:06:43 ◼   ► Notion is trusted by 98% of the Forbes Cloud 100, 95% of the top

01:06:44 ◼   ► 50 AI companies, including OpenAI, Cursor Lovable, and more.

01:06:52 ◼   ► I use Notion for so I am in so many Notion teams now because

01:06:57 ◼   ► it it's just so helpful for me to be able to get my work

01:07:00 ◼   ► done.

01:07:00 ◼   ► Learn more about how Notion can support your business at Notion.com slash upgrade.

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01:07:07 ◼   ► Notion.com slash upgrade.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Or you can just click the link in the show notes and you can

01:07:10 ◼   ► try out Notion today.

01:07:12 ◼   ► And when you use the link, you support the show.

01:07:14 ◼   ► Our thanks to Notion for their support of upgrade and all of relay.

01:07:19 ◼   ► It's time for the first round for the first iPhone picks in the draft.

01:07:25 ◼   ► Jason, what do you got?

01:07:26 ◼   ► I'm gonna start, use my champion's discretion with the first pick to pick something

01:07:31 ◼   ► that's a little bit, I think, on the easy side, which is iPhones powered

01:07:34 ◼   ► by new two nanometer chip.

01:07:35 ◼   ► Okay.

01:07:36 ◼   ► Boasting about the new A series chip, which just got you know trumped by

01:07:41 ◼   ► the M6, stupid M6 stealing its thunder.

01:07:44 ◼   ► But I think it's gonna be a two nanometer chip, and they're gonna boast

01:07:47 ◼   ► about it, and that's my choice.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Alright.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Uh I had that pretty high up.

01:07:51 ◼   ► I didn't have that at the top, but now I'm looking at my list.

01:07:54 ◼   ► So we have this list that we share, and then me and Jason kind

01:07:56 ◼   ► of whittle it down.

01:07:57 ◼   ► I have a list, and now I've looked at my top pick and I

01:08:00 ◼   ► don't feel confident in it anymore for some reason.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Uh but here we are, and so maybe I'll pick something else.

01:08:06 ◼   ► Oh.

01:08:07 ◼   ► No, I'm just gonna go for it because I I think it will happen.

01:08:09 ◼   ► One iPhone color contains the word blue.

01:08:12 ◼   ► That is my first round pick.

01:08:15 ◼   ► That's what I'm going for.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Wild stuff.

01:08:17 ◼   ► Wild stuff.

01:08:18 ◼   ► You're just you're on the blue train now.

01:08:19 ◼   ► You're a blue believer.

01:08:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:21 ◼   ► I blue lever.

01:08:23 ◼   ► I do think that they will.

01:08:24 ◼   ► Like we've seen like that light blue one.

01:08:26 ◼   ► I do think they'll have it.

01:08:27 ◼   ► I think it will have the word blue in it.

01:08:28 ◼   ► I'm less convinced about the purple one and and the name that's out there

01:08:29 ◼   ► for that.

01:08:35 ◼   ► I don't know if you're gonna pick it, but Dark Cherry, that is also

01:08:39 ◼   ► a potential pick.

01:08:39 ◼   ► Is like they're gonna call it Dark Cherry.

01:08:42 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:08:42 ◼   ► I don't I don't I actually don't like that name.

01:08:44 ◼   ► If they do call it Dark Cherry, it's like I is there light cherry?

01:08:49 ◼   ► Like what do we do?

01:08:49 ◼   ► Why do they just call it cherry?

01:08:51 ◼   ► Why is it dark?

01:08:52 ◼   ► Well, there's bright cherries and then this would be dark.

01:08:54 ◼   ► I mean it dark cherry is so close to my joke about mid midnight

01:08:57 ◼   ► lemon.

01:08:58 ◼   ► Yes.

01:08:59 ◼   ► Oh my gosh.

01:09:00 ◼   ► It's it's just lit like look it's like a color, but dark.

01:09:03 ◼   ► You know, call it black forest.

01:09:05 ◼   ► That would be a fun name, right?

01:09:07 ◼   ► Forest.

01:09:08 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a fun name.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Uh just uh behind Pete behind the scenes, our our list of items that

01:09:12 ◼   ► we're picking from includes three iPhone color items.

01:09:15 ◼   ► One iPhone color contains the word cherry, one iPhone color contains the word blue,

01:09:19 ◼   ► and somehow cosmic orange returned.

01:09:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I that felt to me like just like a wish casting for you.

01:09:25 ◼   ► It's just a joke.

01:09:25 ◼   ► I'm just making jokes in there.

01:09:27 ◼   ► I enjoyed it.

01:09:27 ◼   ► There's a f there's a few jokes in there.

01:09:29 ◼   ► I felt them.

01:09:30 ◼   ► All right, I am gonna I'm gonna break the seal on folding iPhone.

01:09:38 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:40 ◼   ► Um, and I am so what this means that I'm saying we're gonna get

01:09:44 ◼   ► a folding iPhone.

01:09:46 ◼   ► And I'm gonna say that our folding iPhone supports split view.

01:09:55 ◼   ► Which seems natural, logical, right?

01:09:58 ◼   ► Split view on that wide screen in the inside that you'd be able to

01:10:03 ◼   ► put two apps on it, one on the left and one on the right.

01:10:05 ◼   ► Yep.

01:10:07 ◼   ► Yeah, that was high up on my list.

01:10:09 ◼   ► I think that that this to me feels like the obvious thing that will

01:10:14 ◼   ► happen with there's a lot of question about what is going to go on

01:10:14 ◼   ► inside of that folding display.

01:10:20 ◼   ► Yeah, what is happening in there?

01:10:22 ◼   ► But at this time, this feels like the one we can kind of take

01:10:24 ◼   ► a lock on.

01:10:25 ◼   ► Like if you've if you've been paying attention to the tools available for developers,

01:10:28 ◼   ► Apple is very focused on apps that resize, that is essentially split view, right?

01:10:33 ◼   ► Like it feels very much like the way they've done things in the past.

01:10:37 ◼   ► Feel very confident about that.

01:10:40 ◼   ► My second round pick, I'm going for something where I feel like Apple just

01:10:44 ◼   ► can't help themselves with Apple brands the folding iPhone display.

01:10:51 ◼   ► Oh, I was so happy when I put this in here.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Perfect.

01:10:54 ◼   ► Yeah, really good suggestion.

01:10:56 ◼   ► They love giving a name.

01:10:58 ◼   ► They can't help it.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And they will do this.

01:11:01 ◼   ► They will do this.

01:11:07 ◼   ► They won't be able to help themselves.

01:11:09 ◼   ► There's no world in which they're because we know that Apple's going to do

01:11:17 ◼   ► for the folding iPhone that they all the thing they always do, right?

01:11:22 ◼   ► They are obviously late to this party, right?

01:11:25 ◼   ► Compared to their main competitor.

01:11:28 ◼   ► And even some of their not main competitors.

01:11:31 ◼   ► Like this is something they have come to very light.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Yes.

01:11:34 ◼   ► They are going to try to show why they have made the best one.

01:11:40 ◼   ► And part of that will be talking about the display that they're using and

01:11:43 ◼   ► all of the technology that they're using to make the display look good in

01:11:46 ◼   ► the inside.

01:11:47 ◼   ► And so there's no way that we get out of this without being named

01:11:51 ◼   ► something.

01:11:53 ◼   ► Yeah, it's too bad they've used liquid retina because they could use that here.

01:11:56 ◼   ► It would be great.

01:11:57 ◼   ► Extra liquid retina.

01:11:58 ◼   ► Because it's like so liquid you can bend it.

01:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:01 ◼   ► Um yeah.

01:12:03 ◼   ► I I that's why I put it on there.

01:12:05 ◼   ► I just I I I had fun making this list because I I built

01:12:08 ◼   ► more of this list than I normally you build it.

01:12:10 ◼   ► I built it, and then I usually just insert my dumb ideas, and here

01:12:13 ◼   ► I just went all in on the dumb ideas.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Um and that one made me laugh because I'm like, of course they're gonna

01:12:18 ◼   ► be of course they're gonna be.

01:12:19 ◼   ► Yep.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I've won points in games or drafts before with this exact yeah, yeah.

01:12:25 ◼   ► No, it's good.

01:12:25 ◼   ► It's good.

01:12:26 ◼   ► I'm gonna go again, a little bit boring, and also this is your bummer

01:12:29 ◼   ► pick, but I'm gonna pick it so you don't have to, which is folding

01:12:32 ◼   ► iPhone, touch ID button only.

01:12:35 ◼   ► Touch ID.

01:12:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:37 ◼   ► Sorry.

01:12:38 ◼   ► I know.

01:12:39 ◼   ► I sorry.

01:12:40 ◼   ► You know, you get used to it.

01:12:41 ◼   ► I I when I've been test when I tested iPads that use touch ID,

01:12:45 ◼   ► like iPad Air, you get used to it, but you also get used to

01:12:50 ◼   ► just flipping open your device and having it open, right?

01:12:54 ◼   ► You know, that I I have this in here.

01:12:56 ◼   ► I don't know if you've gonna pick it, but I'm just gonna mention here

01:12:58 ◼   ► because we've been talking about like this isn't my pick, by the way.

01:13:01 ◼   ► You know, like how many cameras is it gonna have?

01:13:03 ◼   ► Is it gonna touch ID or not?

01:13:04 ◼   ► Rumors are resurfacing again as to whether this thing has mag safe or not.

01:13:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:09 ◼   ► And I feel like if this thing has two cameras, touch ID and no

01:13:12 ◼   ► mag safe, I'm I'm gonna be struggling.

01:13:15 ◼   ► Like it's gonna be rough for me.

01:13:18 ◼   ► And we know we know from the iPhone um uh S E or the

01:13:23 ◼   ► iPhone uh E.

01:13:24 ◼   ► The 16E had no magsafe.

01:13:27 ◼   ► It didn't have mag safe, it had it had wireless charging, but it didn't

01:13:30 ◼   ► have mag safe.

01:13:31 ◼   ► And then they brought it up.

01:13:32 ◼   ► It's like what a weird area.

01:13:33 ◼   ► So, yeah, yeah.

01:13:35 ◼   ► What a weird thing.

01:13:36 ◼   ► Would that what that would be?

01:13:38 ◼   ► Because it's gonna be, you know, there's gonna be.

01:13:39 ◼   ► You know there's gonna be a spec.

01:13:41 ◼   ► And we may or may not draft it.

01:13:43 ◼   ► You know there's gonna be a spec on the folding phone where we're like,

01:13:46 ◼   ► really?

01:13:47 ◼   ► What?

01:13:44 ◼   ► And magSafe would be that.

01:13:50 ◼   ► Like touch ID, I'll be upset about, but I'll get it.

01:13:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:54 ◼   ► Because I I guarantee the way they would deal with this is it if

01:13:59 ◼   ► they do this.

01:13:59 ◼   ► It doesn't have MagSafe.

01:14:00 ◼   ► It does have wireless charging.

01:14:02 ◼   ► The case had magnets in it.

01:14:04 ◼   ► Like that, I feel like is the way that they go around this.

01:14:07 ◼   ► And I just case man, that would work.

01:14:09 ◼   ► What is a case for a folding phone look like?

01:14:12 ◼   ► Uh you just they're separate pieces.

01:14:14 ◼   ► Ah, two-piece case.

01:14:16 ◼   ► That you do a front case and a back case.

01:14:18 ◼   ► Okay.

01:14:19 ◼   ► That's how Samsung do it.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Okay.

01:14:21 ◼   ► Okay.

01:14:21 ◼   ► And then they'll they'll put magnet on that.

01:14:24 ◼   ► But Touch ID, sorry.

01:14:26 ◼   ► You're gonna be sad.

01:14:27 ◼   ► I'm gonna be sad.

01:14:28 ◼   ► I actually think I would be more sad if they don't have MagSafe than

01:14:32 ◼   ► I would even be for the Face ID.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Because that would just be like, well, now how do I charge the phone?

01:14:36 ◼   ► How am I charging it?

01:14:39 ◼   ► So we'll find out.

01:14:40 ◼   ► If ever there was a phone that that you want to not plug in,

01:14:43 ◼   ► it's this, right?

01:14:45 ◼   ► Because it's so thin that it's gonna have a little tiny like USB port

01:14:47 ◼   ► somewhere.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Like, nah, just lay it down.

01:14:50 ◼   ► I'm here for the the stories that this phone is gonna create.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Um my next pick.

01:14:56 ◼   ► So while we we want this thing to be an iPad on the inside,

01:15:00 ◼   ► it's not going to be, right?

01:15:02 ◼   ► I feel that we feel it's gonna be iPhone apps.

01:15:05 ◼   ► Mark German reported this weekend that they they did test an Apple pencil for

01:15:09 ◼   ► it, but that it probably wasn't gonna ship with it.

01:15:12 ◼   ► But I'm hoping that Apple has some interesting stuff going on with this device

01:15:19 ◼   ► that kind of makes it fun and interesting and cool to use.

01:15:23 ◼   ► So I'm picking Apple introduces new features for apps running on the folding iPhone's

01:15:29 ◼   ► internal display.

01:15:29 ◼   ► It's a very long pick.

01:15:32 ◼   ► Now, what does this mean?

01:15:34 ◼   ► I'm hoping that they have some some things we haven't seen in iOS before

01:15:38 ◼   ► that enable the usage of these kinds of applications.

01:15:42 ◼   ► Maybe some kind of multitasking buttons, right?

01:15:44 ◼   ► Maybe some fun ways and easy ways to swap the apps around.

01:15:47 ◼   ► Maybe we've got some pairs finally, like stuff like this that make using that

01:15:53 ◼   ► internal display different to how we've used an iPhone before.

01:15:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:59 ◼   ► When I wrote this pick, I was thinking also about just uh, you know,

01:16:02 ◼   ► maybe some APIs that they couldn't even talk about a WWDC that are like,

01:16:08 ◼   ► oh, apps are going to be able to do this thing.

01:16:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:10 ◼   ► And then all the developers will be like, oh no, I gotta do that.

01:16:13 ◼   ► But um that that just to yeah, to to the I my idea was

01:16:18 ◼   ► very vague, but it was sort of like ease the and there is a

01:16:22 ◼   ► corresponding external display pick as well of like what are they gonna do?

01:16:25 ◼   ► Because both of these displays are a little unusual, certainly on an iPhone, they're

01:16:29 ◼   ► very unusual.

01:16:29 ◼   ► Are there gonna be affordances that they offer so that apps behave a little

01:16:33 ◼   ► differently?

01:16:34 ◼   ► Like, and and I would even say like for apps might also mean like

01:16:40 ◼   ► reachability, right?

01:16:41 ◼   ► That's a feature for apps because it like has to move your app on

01:16:45 ◼   ► the screen so that you can reach the thing.

01:16:46 ◼   ► That was a weird, but that is a that is a feature that's an

01:16:49 ◼   ► affordance like this that I would say is in the ballpark.

01:16:51 ◼   ► So we'll see.

01:16:52 ◼   ► It's like do they literally say, and with the folding iPhone, you can have

01:16:58 ◼   ► split view.

01:16:59 ◼   ► All right, next, moving on.

01:17:00 ◼   ► Like, like my point is they're gonna have other things, right?

01:17:03 ◼   ► Is is my thinking.

01:17:04 ◼   ► I don't know what they are, but I would be surprised if that was

01:17:08 ◼   ► like, hey, two apps side by side.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Now let's show you the camera.

01:17:12 ◼   ► So we'll see.

01:17:13 ◼   ► Yeah, we'll see.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Um my next pick.

01:17:15 ◼   ► I'm actually gonna go back to the the new chip, presumably A20 or E20

01:17:20 ◼   ► Pro, but that new chip that's gonna come out, that two nanometer I picked

01:17:23 ◼   ► chip.

01:17:24 ◼   ► And I'm thinking just it's the spirit of the age, Mike.

01:17:29 ◼   ► Apple will make a specific boast about on device AI performance in their new

01:17:35 ◼   ► chip.

01:17:36 ◼   ► Huh.

01:17:38 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:17:39 ◼   ► I think this is a I think this is a gimme.

01:17:42 ◼   ► I think this is a layup, honestly.

01:17:43 ◼   ► Because do they talk about on device AI performance with the iPhone?

01:17:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:49 ◼   ► Yeah, they're gonna and and in the context of Siri AI, right?

01:17:53 ◼   ► To say, to say, oh, the neural engines here, it's so much better.

01:17:59 ◼   ► It responds better, it's got this capability, it's got those enhanced voices, or maybe

01:18:03 ◼   ► even another feature.

01:18:04 ◼   ► But I just feel like new chip, two nanometer, what's a money phrase is

01:18:08 ◼   ► better AI performance.

01:18:10 ◼   ► Even if it's just like 2x better AI performance than the the A19 Pro.

01:18:14 ◼   ► Yeah, like even if it doesn't mean anything, it sounds great, and it says

01:18:17 ◼   ► we're on top of AI.

01:18:19 ◼   ► So I I'm just I'm gonna put down a chip here that they got

01:18:22 ◼   ► a new chip, they're gonna boast about AI performance because why would they not?

01:18:28 ◼   ► All right.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Fourth round, that was the fourth round of my fourth round pick.

01:18:32 ◼   ► Apple makes a specific claim about how there's essentially no crease on the folding

01:18:38 ◼   ► iPhone.

01:18:40 ◼   ► Oh, another one of my favorites that I wrote.

01:18:43 ◼   ► Because you can picture it, right?

01:18:44 ◼   ► Which is that we've had all of these stories about creases and them trying

01:18:48 ◼   ► to avoid the crease and how they finally, it was like they're gonna make

01:18:51 ◼   ► it creaseless.

01:18:52 ◼   ► And then there was that great story that was like, well, how do you

01:18:55 ◼   ► define creaseless, right?

01:18:56 ◼   ► So what are they gonna say?

01:18:58 ◼   ► And and again, it might that's why it says essentially in parentheses there is

01:19:03 ◼   ► that do they pretend do they not say anything about it?

01:19:08 ◼   ► Or do they say, you know, the big problem with holding phones is a

01:19:12 ◼   ► big ugly crease in the center.

01:19:13 ◼   ► But we built this amazing thing, and you won't, you know, you can't even

01:19:17 ◼   ► tell.

01:19:18 ◼   ► It's it's just it's will they say crease?

01:19:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:19:21 ◼   ► I can imagine like seamless flatness.

01:19:25 ◼   ► Yeah, like they're gonna say something to imply how great that screen is.

01:19:31 ◼   ► How smooth and level, and you'll never even know that it folded or whatever

01:19:35 ◼   ► it is.

01:19:35 ◼   ► That's what they're going for.

01:19:37 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:19:39 ◼   ► It is day, it's a dangerous game, too, right?

01:19:41 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:19:42 ◼   ► Because it could, it it could uh backfire.

01:19:45 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:19:48 ◼   ► Oh wow.

01:19:48 ◼   ► Okay, so we're in the second half of the iPhone picks.

01:19:53 ◼   ► This is where it gets harder.

01:19:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:58 ◼   ► Um I am gonna make something that's almost a stagecraft pick, but it's about

01:20:06 ◼   ► the iPhones, so it counts.

01:20:09 ◼   ► Which is we anticipate that what they will not do in this event is

01:20:17 ◼   ► announce the iPhone 18 or 18 plus, if it or if it exists.

01:20:25 ◼   ► The new kind of like what we think of as the base model iPhone.

01:20:28 ◼   ► That this is gonna be a pro-only iPhone event.

01:20:32 ◼   ► And so the question is, what do they say about that?

01:20:37 ◼   ► And so I'm gonna make the pick.

01:20:39 ◼   ► They will say nothing.

01:20:40 ◼   ► They will not mention that the iPhone 18 isn't coming out.

01:20:44 ◼   ► They won't, they might mention the iPhone 17 and say, look, at our great

01:20:44 ◼   ► product now line now.

01:20:49 ◼   ► We've got the iPhone 17 and we've got the iPhone 18 Pro.

01:20:52 ◼   ► And like all of your questions about where the iPhone 18 is are answered

01:20:57 ◼   ► by my iPhone 17 t-shirt, right?

01:21:00 ◼   ► Like I just forget it.

01:21:03 ◼   ► So that's I never never bet against Apple not announcing future products, but I

01:21:07 ◼   ► I just if they joke about it, then I lose this pick.

01:21:11 ◼   ► But like I think they're just going to stare at us and be like,

01:21:17 ◼   ► what do you mean?

01:21:19 ◼   ► We don't, you know, no, there's no 18.

01:21:22 ◼   ► It's 18 Pro.

01:21:23 ◼   ► That's what we're doing.

01:21:24 ◼   ► So yeah, that's that's my that's my choice is they will say nothing about

01:21:29 ◼   ► the fact that they've omitted several popular phone models from uh new product versions.

01:21:35 ◼   ► Yep.

01:21:39 ◼   ► I'm gonna I'm gonna make a pick.

01:21:41 ◼   ► I'm gonna have this pick, but I will ask a clarification pick uh question

01:21:45 ◼   ► for it anyway.

01:21:46 ◼   ► Okay.

01:21:46 ◼   ► Um my pick is for round five, at least one new photo-related operating system

01:21:52 ◼   ► feature is added to iOS beyond what we've already seen.

01:21:55 ◼   ► Okay.

01:21:56 ◼   ► So that's my pick.

01:21:57 ◼   ► If they have the variable aperture hardware, and there's buttons in the software to

01:22:05 ◼   ► control it, does that count?

01:22:10 ◼   ► Oh.

01:22:11 ◼   ► I would say if it's just buttons to control it or like an auto,

01:22:16 ◼   ► I would say maybe no.

01:22:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:18 ◼   ► But if it enables a mode, right?

01:22:22 ◼   ► Like what if it enables like a deep, you know, deep uh a depth

01:22:29 ◼   ► mode or something.

01:22:30 ◼   ► That's great.

01:22:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I like that.

01:22:31 ◼   ► I like that.

01:22:33 ◼   ► Where it's like you flip this in and the aperture changes and it and

01:22:37 ◼   ► it looks different.

01:22:37 ◼   ► I would give it to you.

01:22:38 ◼   ► But I feel like if all it is is just saying if it's like

01:22:41 ◼   ► all happening automatically, or maybe there's a thing that is like, you know, it

01:22:45 ◼   ► shows that it's different or whatever, I don't think it would matter.

01:22:48 ◼   ► But if it if that new hardware feature enables like a new photographic mode

01:22:52 ◼   ► of some sort, maybe if it was anything else.

01:22:56 ◼   ► New things in like, oh, we have this new set of pro features and

01:22:59 ◼   ► da-da-da-da-da.

01:23:00 ◼   ► But I also think it might be more anything else.

01:23:02 ◼   ► Like I think they may show off more than that.

01:23:04 ◼   ► Because they tend to anyway, right?

01:23:05 ◼   ► Like I agree.

01:23:06 ◼   ► Things like photographic styles to come now.

01:23:09 ◼   ► So this feels like a good pick to me.

01:23:11 ◼   ► Did they hold something back from WWDC that's in iOS 27 that's on these

01:23:17 ◼   ► phones?

01:23:18 ◼   ► And if they did, then that picked up.

01:23:21 ◼   ► And also the the folding phone, the cameras are gonna be it's weird, right?

01:23:27 ◼   ► Like the cameras are not necessarily in all the spots you expect them to

01:23:30 ◼   ► be physically all the time, and they might do some stuff there.

01:23:34 ◼   ► Like I think it's the pixel phones.

01:23:36 ◼   ► They have this feature where um it will show animations on the outside screen

01:23:43 ◼   ► to capture a child's attention to get them to look at the camera.

01:23:46 ◼   ► Which is like a really fun little feature that's in their camera app.

01:23:50 ◼   ► But also they might do some intra like weird stuff about like this what

01:23:57 ◼   ► is going on when you're using these phones and like the cameras and like

01:24:02 ◼   ► this display, that display, you know, like so.

01:24:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I I expect there's gonna be some stuff um across the devices.

01:24:09 ◼   ► There is there there is gonna be some stuff.

01:24:11 ◼   ► I think you nailed it.

01:24:12 ◼   ► Stuff will be had by stuff will be had.

01:24:14 ◼   ► Um, but again, like what you just picked.

01:24:21 ◼   ► I feel like this tends to happen, and there's a lot of movement in

01:24:26 ◼   ► this area right now.

01:24:28 ◼   ► So I'm gonna say new satellite connectivity features on iPhone.

01:24:34 ◼   ► Okay.

01:24:35 ◼   ► What are they?

01:24:38 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:24:39 ◼   ► Tell me.

01:24:40 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:24:41 ◼   ► Emergency calls with a partner.

01:24:44 ◼   ► Um there's a lot of action right now in terms of satellite connectivity.

01:24:49 ◼   ► Carriers are doing it.

01:24:51 ◼   ► There are satellite constellations that are out there that are all trying to like

01:24:55 ◼   ► connect to phones.

01:24:57 ◼   ► It might not be you might only have to support certain carriers or whatever,

01:25:00 ◼   ► but like just as they said, oh, now we now you can text.

01:25:04 ◼   ► Uh uh, and it's not just emergency anymore.

01:25:08 ◼   ► I just feel like there's something going on with satellite, and that this is

01:25:12 ◼   ► the time where Apple would say, here's a great new satellite thing that you

01:25:16 ◼   ► can do.

01:25:16 ◼   ► And it might even be like a variant on what exists already, but it

01:25:20 ◼   ► would be a new satellite-based connectivity feature of some kind.

01:25:24 ◼   ► Because I I feel like they're usually up for one, and now is the

01:25:27 ◼   ► time to do it.

01:25:29 ◼   ► I have no, it's just vibes.

01:25:31 ◼   ► I'm kind of going on vibes, but like there's a lot of heat in

01:25:34 ◼   ► this area, and this is the iPhone event.

01:25:36 ◼   ► So if they're gonna do it, now's the time.

01:25:39 ◼   ► I'm gonna go in a completely different direction uh for my sixth round pick.

01:25:43 ◼   ► Claim of improved iPhone battery life.

01:25:46 ◼   ► Oh, this is good.

01:25:48 ◼   ► I think this is a good pick.

01:25:49 ◼   ► I think this is a good pick.

01:25:50 ◼   ► Either as a result of your two nanometer chip that you mentioned earlier, right?

01:25:55 ◼   ► Maybe there's some efficiency there.

01:25:56 ◼   ► There's also a pick that maybe one of us will pick before this is

01:25:59 ◼   ► over, but I'll spoil it now about them using the C2 modems in more

01:26:02 ◼   ► devices.

01:26:03 ◼   ► And maybe one or both of those in some of you know, maybe in

01:26:07 ◼   ► the Pro Phone or whatever.

01:26:08 ◼   ► Um the fact that, you know, apparently these phones are gonna get a little

01:26:12 ◼   ► thicker, right?

01:26:13 ◼   ► Maybe they put a bit a little bit more battery in there, a little

01:26:16 ◼   ► bit more efficiencies.

01:26:17 ◼   ► Um I I can imagine it's always good if they can do it, and

01:26:20 ◼   ► I think they're always trying, so that some of the stars could align this

01:26:24 ◼   ► year for even more battery life in your iPhone.

01:26:28 ◼   ► I think that's a pretty good pick, because just the new chip will allow

01:26:32 ◼   ► them to make a claim that the battery life goes up.

01:26:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:35 ◼   ► And I think that that will I think they will like that.

01:26:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:38 ◼   ► They will say that.

01:26:39 ◼   ► I think that's a good pick.

01:26:40 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:26:41 ◼   ► Two picks to go.

01:26:43 ◼   ► Man.

01:26:44 ◼   ► I did suggest we do a lot of iPhone picks because it makes the

01:26:47 ◼   ► later picks a little weird.

01:26:48 ◼   ► I'm into the danger zone now.

01:26:50 ◼   ► Like if some of the things that I have in my list, it's like

01:26:53 ◼   ► these are things I would pick, but most of them is like I've I've

01:26:56 ◼   ► picked multiple things that all contradict each other, and it's about which one do

01:27:01 ◼   ► I feel in the moment.

01:27:02 ◼   ► Uh I am I'm gonna go with a color czar pick here.

01:27:09 ◼   ► Oh wow.

01:27:10 ◼   ► And I'm gonna say the folding iPhone comes in monochrome colors.

01:27:14 ◼   ► Okay.

01:27:15 ◼   ► Silver, white, black, gray.

01:27:18 ◼   ► Okay, but not a not a like a nice color that is a color.

01:27:22 ◼   ► Okay.

01:27:23 ◼   ► Keeping it bland for the first gen.

01:27:25 ◼   ► That's my that's the was out that day.

01:27:28 ◼   ► They just, you know, start start it simple.

01:27:32 ◼   ► Keep it, keep it plain.

01:27:33 ◼   ► That's my that's my theory.

01:27:37 ◼   ► Alright.

01:27:46 ◼   ► Okay.

01:27:46 ◼   ► Folding iPhone is the thinnest Apple device ever.

01:27:51 ◼   ► Uh that was my other, that was my other pick, actually, right there.

01:27:54 ◼   ► I was going back in five and fourth.

01:27:56 ◼   ► Uh it is entirely possible that the folding iPhone will be claimed as being

01:28:03 ◼   ► the thinnest Apple device ever.

01:28:05 ◼   ► Over the 13-inch iPad Pro.

01:28:06 ◼   ► Of course, this is when it's open, right?

01:28:08 ◼   ► Like is and that's how they'll talk about it is when it's open.

01:28:11 ◼   ► Obviously, not when it's closed.

01:28:12 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:28:14 ◼   ► I mean it's when it's closed.

01:28:16 ◼   ► No, it can't be.

01:28:17 ◼   ► Yeah, probably not.

01:28:18 ◼   ► It can't be.

01:28:19 ◼   ► You wouldn't be able to open it.

01:28:20 ◼   ► No.

01:28:21 ◼   ► It'd be like taking two pieces of paper as well.

01:28:24 ◼   ► They're gonna make a claim.

01:28:25 ◼   ► Thinnest.

01:28:26 ◼   ► The 13-inch iPad Pro, by the way, is the winner on this.

01:28:30 ◼   ► It's 5.1 millimeters.

01:28:32 ◼   ► The uh iPhone Air is 5.6.

01:28:36 ◼   ► Yes.

01:28:38 ◼   ► Right?

01:28:38 ◼   ► Isn't that amazing?

01:28:40 ◼   ► That the iPhone, the iPad Pro is thinner than the iPhone Air.

01:28:43 ◼   ► The iPad Pro is on the phone.

01:28:44 ◼   ► That was a pick last year.

01:28:45 ◼   ► Yeah, it's unbelievably thin.

01:28:47 ◼   ► And this phone would feel fantastic if it was if it was thinner than

01:28:51 ◼   ► that.

01:28:51 ◼   ► Like if it was like five millimeters when open, that would feel really, really,

01:28:55 ◼   ► really nice.

01:28:56 ◼   ► So I hope so.

01:28:58 ◼   ► Final pick in the iPhone round.

01:29:00 ◼   ► What'd you call it, Jason?

01:29:02 ◼   ► Wow.

01:29:03 ◼   ► I don't like it at all.

01:29:06 ◼   ► I got a lot of numbers here.

01:29:07 ◼   ► I'm not gonna lie, the low numbers in in my final ones there.

01:29:11 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:29:12 ◼   ► Man.

01:29:13 ◼   ► Um all of these are kind of like, yeah, they're they're shots in the

01:29:17 ◼   ► dark.

01:29:18 ◼   ► Aren't I a little stinker kind of picks?

01:29:22 ◼   ► Oh.

01:29:24 ◼   ► Do I want to be a bummer?

01:29:27 ◼   ► Do I want to be a bummer?

01:29:28 ◼   ► I'm gonna be a bummer.

01:29:30 ◼   ► Here we go.

01:29:29 ◼   ► Okay.

01:29:32 ◼   ► iPhone Pro models starting price is $200 or more above previous generation.

01:29:40 ◼   ► Can I just hit you with my final round pick, please?

01:29:43 ◼   ► Yes.

01:29:44 ◼   ► iPhone Pro model starting price is 100 to 199 more than the previous generation.

01:29:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:55 ◼   ► We'll go.

01:29:56 ◼   ► Which do we think?

01:29:58 ◼   ► Which do we think?

01:29:59 ◼   ► I would I put I put them this way because I wasn't sure.

01:30:02 ◼   ► And now I'm just being like, yeah, they're just gonna be like, who cares?

01:30:06 ◼   ► It's going up.

01:30:07 ◼   ► 200.

01:30:08 ◼   ► That's it.

01:30:09 ◼   ► So what what's your what's your uh reason for optimism there?

01:30:14 ◼   ► Samsung and Google.

01:30:17 ◼   ► Okay.

01:30:17 ◼   ► They've gone up by 100, by and large, on their starting models.

01:30:22 ◼   ► Um does that really say anything?

01:30:25 ◼   ► Not really.

01:30:27 ◼   ► But I think it indicates maybe, you know, where the industry is.

01:30:32 ◼   ► I think it does also make it difficult to go up much more.

01:30:38 ◼   ► Yep.

01:30:38 ◼   ► So you're saying you're you're basically saying it's gonna be $11.99, and I'm saying

01:30:42 ◼   ► it's gonna be $12.99.

01:30:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:30:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:30:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:30:46 ◼   ► I just I have that moment of like, Apple's just gonna do it.

01:30:49 ◼   ► Like they they're just gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna push it again.

01:30:52 ◼   ► Like they they've they have not pushed it.

01:30:54 ◼   ► It is sitting there at that price.

01:30:57 ◼   ► They it was up.

01:30:58 ◼   ► It it's been up in the past, but they haven't done it at all

01:31:01 ◼   ► until now, right?

01:31:02 ◼   ► They haven't raised that price.

01:31:04 ◼   ► Maybe they won't raise it at all.

01:31:05 ◼   ► That was a pick, neither of us picked.

01:31:06 ◼   ► I just feel like they're just gonna go all the way.

01:31:09 ◼   ► They've got they got lots of other iPhones out there, and this is the

01:31:15 ◼   ► pro model, and that they're gonna push it.

01:31:14 ◼   ► But I don't know.

01:31:19 ◼   ► This is a real coin flip here between your pick and my pick.

01:31:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:22 ◼   ► It's this, it's I would not want to be the person making this decision,

01:31:27 ◼   ► right?

01:31:28 ◼   ► Because there is like a I mean, it's going to go up, right?

01:31:34 ◼   ► There is an amount that it can go up and people will accept it.

01:31:38 ◼   ► There's an amount that it can go up and people will not.

01:31:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:41 ◼   ► And how does this affect any sales?

01:31:44 ◼   ► Like it's so I can't even I there are people who have been kept

01:31:49 ◼   ► awake at night for months trying to work this decision out because this is

01:31:53 ◼   ► unbelievably complicated.

01:31:55 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:31:56 ◼   ► Oh, I I agree.

01:31:58 ◼   ► Um yeah, my my my argument is basically like this isn't the base iPhone

01:32:03 ◼   ► price at all.

01:32:04 ◼   ► There are all sorts of other phones, the 17s that are down there at

01:32:08 ◼   ► other prices, and that this is the pro phone.

01:32:10 ◼   ► Isn't this the seller though?

01:32:12 ◼   ► Like the pro.

01:32:13 ◼   ► Isn't this where they make their money?

01:32:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I I don't know.

01:32:18 ◼   ► Does that mean that you need to make more money?

01:32:20 ◼   ► Or does it mean that's the right thing?

01:32:20 ◼   ► You are you are you are saying they're gonna they're gonna ask for more

01:32:26 ◼   ► money, but not too much, and I'm gonna say they're gonna ask for too

01:32:29 ◼   ► much.

01:32:29 ◼   ► I don't imagine a world that they ask for nothing more.

01:32:33 ◼   ► I can't see that.

01:32:34 ◼   ► I can't picture that.

01:32:35 ◼   ► But I think they're gonna try, I believe they're gonna try to keep it

01:32:40 ◼   ► below that 200 mark.

01:32:41 ◼   ► And I actually do think it will be more around the 100 mark.

01:32:45 ◼   ► Okay.

01:32:46 ◼   ► Maybe we'll find out why the leasing program exists.

01:32:49 ◼   ► Maybe so.

01:32:52 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Claude from Anthropic.

01:32:56 ◼   ► Claude is the AI for problem solvers, it's the collaborator that understands your entire

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01:33:13 ◼   ► Talking about actually uh your business moves.

01:33:16 ◼   ► So I recently uh started listening to the Acquired podcast.

01:33:21 ◼   ► Um, it's you know it it is a podcast that is about the history

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01:33:31 ◼   ► They have a really interesting business model, and I wanted to know more about

01:33:34 ◼   ► it.

01:33:34 ◼   ► So I asked Claude to put together a report for me that kind of

01:33:37 ◼   ► explained where they came from, how they got to where they are, and like

01:33:40 ◼   ► what has made them successful so far.

01:33:42 ◼   ► And it was fascinating to read through and to think about.

01:33:45 ◼   ► It's like I'm thinking about where we're gonna go with designing California and how

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01:35:47 ◼   ► It is time for the other draft picks.

01:35:51 ◼   ► This includes literally everything else that we could possibly want to pick is in

01:35:56 ◼   ► this round.

01:35:57 ◼   ► There are five of these.

01:35:59 ◼   ► Everything but I will start us with the Apple Watch, and I will say

01:36:03 ◼   ► ceramic.

01:36:04 ◼   ► I'm now MC.

01:36:05 ◼   ► You had your bummers from me.

01:36:06 ◼   ► I gave you your bummers.

01:36:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:36:08 ◼   ► Now I'm gonna make Mike happy.

01:36:10 ◼   ► Ceramic Apple Watch option.

01:36:12 ◼   ► Man, and Mark said over the weekend it's gonna be we're gonna have a

01:36:16 ◼   ► white one, Jason.

01:36:18 ◼   ► I am gonna be so happy.

01:36:21 ◼   ► I am gonna be so happy if they bring that white ceramic apple.

01:36:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I'll I'll take this point and you'll like it.

01:36:28 ◼   ► Is what I'm saying.

01:36:29 ◼   ► I want you to get this point.

01:36:29 ◼   ► Jason, this was my round one pick too.

01:36:33 ◼   ► I know.

01:36:33 ◼   ► Because I just want to be true.

01:36:29 ◼   ► I just want it to be true.

01:36:37 ◼   ► Oh man, I will.

01:36:38 ◼   ► I mean, I'll miss the battery life from the ultra, but see you, buddy.

01:36:43 ◼   ► I'm off.

01:36:45 ◼   ► No problem here.

01:36:46 ◼   ► I'll charge that thing twice a day if I need to.

01:36:51 ◼   ► My first round pick.

01:36:53 ◼   ► John Turnus has a major role in unveiling at least one product.

01:36:58 ◼   ► Oh.