Upgrade

00:00:08 ◼   ► From relay, this is Upgrade, episode 634 for August 24th, 2026.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Shippaton, Daylight, and Century.

00:00:20 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley, and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Hi, Mike Hurley.

00:00:24 ◼   ► It's almost over, but it is still the summer of fall.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Yep.

00:00:30 ◼   ► This is I mean, this is probably it, right?

00:00:32 ◼   ► Probably it.

00:00:33 ◼   ► This is probably it now.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Like our we continue to expect.

00:00:37 ◼   ► And as we get closer, expect even more that next Monday will be the

00:00:42 ◼   ► draft.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I think probably so, right?

00:00:45 ◼   ► Like we're our best guess is that uh Apple's event is in two weeks.

00:00:52 ◼   ► We don't know, but that's our best guess.

00:00:53 ◼   ► I just had the thought, like, you know, me and you are very busy

00:00:56 ◼   ► right now.

00:00:56 ◼   ► We'll talk about it more next week.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Uh but the thought of the draft prep right now feels horri feels horrible.

00:01:04 ◼   ► That feels like a really big job to do amongst all the other big

00:01:08 ◼   ► jobs.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Funny thing about this time of year is it's a very busy time, but

00:01:13 ◼   ► also there's a lot of moving pieces, which can and we have more this

00:01:16 ◼   ► time, but because we did that to ourselves again.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Yep.

00:01:19 ◼   ► And I was thinking about it, like there's so many moving pieces.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Also, I'll just throw into the mix that um my son is trying to

00:01:26 ◼   ► find a place to live in Oregon, and he's trying to move into a

00:01:30 ◼   ► house with his friends in Oregon, and his lease is up on September 5th.

00:01:36 ◼   ► And uh Lauren and I just keep I mean, we are planners.

00:01:39 ◼   ► We have we put things on the calendar weeks or months in advance.

00:01:44 ◼   ► And we don't know what we're doing on Labor Day weekend because we may

00:01:49 ◼   ► have to go to Oregon and move him.

00:01:52 ◼   ► We may not need to move him if his friends are moving at the

00:01:54 ◼   ► same time.

00:01:55 ◼   ► We may need to put his stuff in storage if he doesn't have a

00:01:58 ◼   ► place to live.

00:01:59 ◼   ► We don't know what we're doing Labor Day weekend, and it is very nerve-wracking.

00:02:05 ◼   ► I will say this though.

00:02:06 ◼   ► Um the smartest thing that anybody ever decided was to put the uh relay

00:02:13 ◼   ► FM St.

00:02:14 ◼   ► Jude podcast a thon at the end of the fundraising cycle instead of the

00:02:19 ◼   ► week after the iPhone came out.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:21 ◼   ► So thank you to all who concerned.

00:02:23 ◼   ► Because it sure helps to know that I'm not going to be in Memphis

00:02:26 ◼   ► for a week until the end of September.

00:02:29 ◼   ► That's a relief to me.

00:02:30 ◼   ► I believe if my memory is serving, that it was a conversation me and

00:02:34 ◼   ► Steven had while standing in the studio during one of the rehearsal days last

00:02:37 ◼   ► year.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Why are we doing this to ourselves?

00:02:39 ◼   ► We we have to we have to do it as a different time.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Originally it was like, let's piggyback on the excitement of the iPhone and all

00:02:45 ◼   ► that.

00:02:45 ◼   ► And now it's just like, why are we stomping on this?

00:02:48 ◼   ► So anyway, I I appreciate that.

00:02:50 ◼   ► It's gonna be a busy time.

00:02:51 ◼   ► It is uh it is also frustrating, yes, as somebody likes to plan to

00:02:54 ◼   ► not exactly know when Apple's event is going to happen, even though we have

00:02:58 ◼   ► some guesses.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Uh, we don't know.

00:03:00 ◼   ► And so we just have to roll with it, and it's a busy time.

00:03:03 ◼   ► And uh and you know, we we get through it.

00:03:07 ◼   ► I mean, the days still pass and we still do what we need to

00:03:09 ◼   ► do, and all of that happens, but it's just a wild ride.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Um and that's one of the reasons the un, you know, we talk about

00:03:16 ◼   ► summer fun and how sometimes there's not a lot going on, although that didn't

00:03:18 ◼   ► happen this summer.

00:03:19 ◼   ► I also love the summer of fun because to me it represents I I

00:03:25 ◼   ► keep calling it the cruise phase after the OSs are released at WWDC and

00:03:29 ◼   ► we're in beta.

00:03:30 ◼   ► There's a period of time where like nothing huge happens.

00:03:35 ◼   ► There's no new Apple product announcements.

00:03:37 ◼   ► We kind of know what's gonna come next, and it's not gonna come next

00:03:41 ◼   ► until September.

00:03:42 ◼   ► And I really like that, and that's why I'm sort of like taking basking

00:03:46 ◼   ► in the in the last summer of fun, possibly right now, because what happens

00:03:51 ◼   ► after the summer of fun is that marching band comes in marching in with

00:03:55 ◼   ► the draft music.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And then we are working hard for like three months.

00:04:03 ◼   ► So it's I again, I'm just enjoying a last little gentle breezes of the

00:04:08 ◼   ► summer of fun one last time.

00:04:10 ◼   ► I have a snow talk question for you.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:04:12 ◼   ► It's summer themed.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Steven wrote in and asked, Did Jason use any tech forward thermometers when cooking

00:04:18 ◼   ► or grilling or barbecuing?

00:04:20 ◼   ► Or does he use an old-fashioned thermometer?

00:04:23 ◼   ► Um, I was actually just grilling last night.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:26 ◼   ► So great timing.

00:04:27 ◼   ► I have a thermopen instant read thermometer, which is my recommendation if you do

00:04:34 ◼   ► not have one.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Get a thermopen instant read thermometer.

00:04:37 ◼   ► It's an instant read thermometer.

00:04:39 ◼   ► You stick it in the meat or whatever.

00:04:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:41 ◼   ► And it tells you the temperature.

00:04:42 ◼   ► I I was using my thermopen actually with when I made um my uh

00:04:47 ◼   ► lemon marmalade that I made uh a few months ago, because you you want

00:04:51 ◼   ► to hit exactly the right temperature basically, and then you take it off the

00:04:54 ◼   ► heat.

00:04:55 ◼   ► And I got I nailed it this time because I realized, you know, I

00:04:58 ◼   ► should probably just stick the instant read in there and do it that way.

00:05:01 ◼   ► And that totally worked.

00:05:02 ◼   ► I do have a combustion smart uh thermometer that you basically stick into the

00:05:08 ◼   ► meat and then you put it out there.

00:05:10 ◼   ► Um, and it I like it, it's expensive.

00:05:13 ◼   ► And the problem is that I've I've destroyed two of them.

00:05:19 ◼   ► Cause I think even though they're supposed to survive the heat, I don't know

00:05:25 ◼   ► if they are as far as it's not.

00:05:26 ◼   ► Eventually the heat the heat will get out.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Also, they um they they lose their battery really fast, so you kind of

00:05:29 ◼   ► like almost always have to charge them right before you use them.

00:05:37 ◼   ► However, I did use it last night.

00:05:38 ◼   ► I charged it right as I put the stakes on and then uh let

00:05:42 ◼   ► it sit there until I flip the stakes, and then I went and got

00:05:45 ◼   ► it and stuck it in.

00:05:46 ◼   ► And that's really cool because it's got like it's an instant read, but it's

00:05:49 ◼   ► like five or six instant read sensors, so we can detect which one is

00:05:55 ◼   ► at the center at the low point and then and then give you, you

00:05:59 ◼   ► know, uh uh an estimate and a readout and stuff like that.

00:06:02 ◼   ► So that I I use that some, but the truth is all you really

00:06:05 ◼   ► need the gadget that you really want, and my kids will tell you their

00:06:08 ◼   ► dead loves a kitchen gadget.

00:06:10 ◼   ► Um is the thermopen, instant read thermometer.

00:06:13 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:06:14 ◼   ► That's what you need.

00:06:15 ◼   ► It changed the way that we cook.

00:06:16 ◼   ► Like everything we were cooking was overdone until we got the thermopen.

00:06:20 ◼   ► Yeah, because you're like, I don't know.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And you, you know, unless you want to cut into it, you're like, I

00:06:23 ◼   ► don't know, is this done or not?

00:06:24 ◼   ► And it works with, like I said, I used it with a lemon marmalade.

00:06:26 ◼   ► It works with just about anything.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Um and you don't have to have the you know, the sensor on the

00:06:33 ◼   ► metal sensor that like runs out with a cord that attaches to something on

00:06:37 ◼   ► the outside of the oven or something like that.

00:06:40 ◼   ► You can literally just, yeah, exactly.

00:06:42 ◼   ► You get or hangs off of a rack.

00:06:44 ◼   ► You can literally just open it, stick this thing in, look at the temperature,

00:06:47 ◼   ► pull it out again, close the door.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Yeah, and uh instant read is the way to go.

00:06:51 ◼   ► So yeah, and thermopen.

00:06:53 ◼   ► They come in fun colors.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Mine's green.

00:06:55 ◼   ► I have a bunch of thermopen stuff that's green or orange, and it's a

00:06:58 ◼   ► lot of fun.

00:06:58 ◼   ► So um highly recommend thermopen.

00:07:01 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question for us to open a

00:07:03 ◼   ► future episode of the show, just go to upgradefeedback.com and send in your Snelltalk

00:07:08 ◼   ► question.

00:07:09 ◼   ► We have some follow-up.

00:07:10 ◼   ► So Joey wrote in and said, for all of the iPhone screen and size

00:07:13 ◼   ► and fizz and like hand issues you've been talking about and one-handed usage recently.

00:07:14 ◼   ► I just want to mention pop sockets are a huge deal for this reason.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And I would like to give a big endorsement.

00:07:24 ◼   ► I would say pop socket's better than ever since it's like using MagSafe, right?

00:07:28 ◼   ► They so you can just connect them by MagSafe so you can take them

00:07:31 ◼   ► off whenever you want to.

00:07:32 ◼   ► PopSocket has a new model, which is like very, very, very thin.

00:07:38 ◼   ► I don't like it as like an OG like purist of the way that

00:07:41 ◼   ► a pop socket should feel in your hand because it has a complete it

00:07:44 ◼   ► has a very different feel.

00:07:45 ◼   ► But if your issue is that it adds bulk to the back of your

00:07:49 ◼   ► phone, they've they've created one which is like super thin now.

00:07:52 ◼   ► Okay.

00:07:52 ◼   ► I'm gonna do a thing that's a very as as people will discover, very

00:07:55 ◼   ► design in California Jason kind of thing.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Yep, which is we're gonna take it back a step.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

00:08:00 ◼   ► So for those who do not know, a pop socket is this little thing

00:08:02 ◼   ► that used to stick and now mag saves to the back of your phone

00:08:05 ◼   ► and it's flat, but you can go boop boop and it pops open, and

00:08:09 ◼   ► you can stick your hand around in between the two sides of it and

00:08:14 ◼   ► use it to hold, and it gives you a better kind of hold, different

00:08:17 ◼   ► kind of grip on your phone because you're holding your your fingers between the

00:08:21 ◼   ► pop socket instead of gripping your hand around the phone itself, right?

00:08:26 ◼   ► Yeah, and even for me, even when the pop socket is closed, it just

00:08:30 ◼   ► gives me another kind of anchor point on my phone.

00:08:34 ◼   ► Um, like I I mean I don't use pop.

00:08:36 ◼   ► I don't use them to be clear.

00:08:37 ◼   ► We have we are covering the entire range of pop socket here from not

00:08:41 ◼   ► to yes.

00:08:41 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Uh I I don't understand how people hold on to a phone without a

00:08:46 ◼   ► case on it and and just gonna able to hold it.

00:08:49 ◼   ► Like I find it uncomfortable.

00:08:50 ◼   ► Like I really love just having something there.

00:08:54 ◼   ► I have my like my thumb on the left side, and I have my

00:08:56 ◼   ► four fingers on the right side, and that's my that's how I got them

00:08:59 ◼   ► all.

00:08:59 ◼   ► That's my grip.

00:09:00 ◼   ► Like an uh like an animal with a pose of thumbs.

00:09:03 ◼   ► Here's my favorite thing.

00:08:59 ◼   ► You could just prop your phone up to watch video.

00:09:06 ◼   ► It's so good.

00:09:07 ◼   ► And like I am a I watch a lot of video and I could

00:09:09 ◼   ► just pop my phone up there and just watch the video.

00:09:12 ◼   ► It's a good time.

00:09:12 ◼   ► So th thank you, um thank you, Joey, for just the it's just a

00:09:15 ◼   ► reminder to everybody out there.

00:09:16 ◼   ► I mean p Mike never forgot about pop sockets, but it's just a reminder

00:09:19 ◼   ► to everybody out there who has this came up because there are a lot

00:09:21 ◼   ► of people with mini iPhones who are like, what do I do?

00:09:24 ◼   ► And we were and and some of them were like, Well, maybe I should

00:09:26 ◼   ► just get a big iPhone because then there's no way I'm gonna be stretching

00:09:29 ◼   ► my hand around it.

00:09:29 ◼   ► If you're having iPhone ergonomic problems, the pop socket, especially since they could do

00:09:33 ◼   ► mag saves, so you don't have to stick it with a sticker to the

00:09:36 ◼   ► back and it will work, you know, through I think through a case or

00:09:39 ◼   ► whatever.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Like, yeah, g give it a look, because that is a solution that a

00:09:43 ◼   ► lot of people love for ergonomic issues.

00:09:45 ◼   ► And I think for a lot of people with the wide phone, it will

00:09:49 ◼   ► be even more helpful because I think that phone is gonna be odd to

00:09:52 ◼   ► hold when it's closed.

00:09:54 ◼   ► Um and so having something to kind of help anchor, I think is gonna

00:09:57 ◼   ► be gonna be really good for people.

00:09:58 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe so.

00:09:59 ◼   ► Uh I mentioned it last time, but it's out now.

00:10:01 ◼   ► Uh my interview with Mark Gurman um on Cortex as part of my state

00:10:05 ◼   ► of the workflow series is out now.

00:10:07 ◼   ► If you want to listen to it.

00:10:08 ◼   ► Uh we I got a lot of nice messages about this one from Friend

00:10:10 ◼   ► of the Show.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Uh yeah.

00:10:12 ◼   ► It was really good actually.

00:10:14 ◼   ► It's been on upgrade a long time ago.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Um so yeah, if you want to go hear a little bit about how

00:10:19 ◼   ► Mark does what he does, uh, you can go and listen to episode 182

00:10:24 ◼   ► of Cortex where I have Mark on the show.

00:10:26 ◼   ► Nice.

00:10:27 ◼   ► Uh the the the sheriff himself.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Uh Jason, you reviewed another new smart home lock.

00:10:33 ◼   ► So you had previously had the Akkara ultra wide band lock and now you

00:10:38 ◼   ► have re replaced it maybe, or at least for this review, with a new

00:10:42 ◼   ► schlag.

00:10:43 ◼   ► Schlager.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I I say I mean they Americans, I think say Schleig, it's Schlage in

00:10:48 ◼   ► German, but whatever it is.

00:10:49 ◼   ► It's a Schlagen Sense Pro, it's um another UWB lock.

00:10:53 ◼   ► So it's one of these where if you've got an iPhone or Apple Watch

00:10:57 ◼   ► made in the last like, I don't know, five years, they've got UWB in

00:11:00 ◼   ► it.

00:11:00 ◼   ► Remember the U1 chip?

00:11:01 ◼   ► Well, what's it for?

00:11:02 ◼   ► Well, this is one of the things it's for, and it means as you

00:11:04 ◼   ► approach your door, it just knows you're there and it unlocks.

00:11:07 ◼   ► It's the I think the platonic ideal of a smart lock in a lot

00:11:11 ◼   ► of ways.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Um, so I bought the Accara.

00:11:14 ◼   ► Um, Schlaga sent me this to review.

00:11:17 ◼   ► So I didn't have to buy another one.

00:11:18 ◼   ► I didn't want to buy another smart lock, but I was curious about this.

00:11:21 ◼   ► And I used to have a uh Schlaga Encode Plus uh before I got

00:11:24 ◼   ► the Accara.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Um and it's good.

00:11:27 ◼   ► It's good.

00:11:28 ◼   ► Uh it's design is really nice.

00:11:30 ◼   ► It's it's much more subtle.

00:11:31 ◼   ► The Accara is kind of a big black slab on the front of your

00:11:34 ◼   ► door.

00:11:35 ◼   ► This one is more like a little plate.

00:11:36 ◼   ► It's still got a number pad that lights up and then you can put

00:11:39 ◼   ► in a code.

00:11:40 ◼   ► You can still do NFC, so you can do tap if you have a

00:11:43 ◼   ► device that does tap uh tap to pay, basically.

00:11:46 ◼   ► You can do tap to unlock if you don't have UWB.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Um it's got instead the old one, the old ones used to do like

00:11:55 ◼   ► it had the holes for a nine-volt battery at the bottom of it.

00:11:58 ◼   ► So if like the battery died and you couldn't get in, you could get

00:12:00 ◼   ► a nine volt battery and stick it there and then it would work, which

00:12:02 ◼   ► I thought like who carries a nine-volt battery around with them.

00:12:05 ◼   ► Now there's just a USB-C underneath it, so you can plug in a USB

00:12:08 ◼   ► cord.

00:12:09 ◼   ► You literally plug in your iPhone and the lock to a USB cord that

00:12:14 ◼   ► you keep in your car, let's say, and that will be emergency power for

00:12:18 ◼   ► it.

00:12:18 ◼   ► The batteries are last a long time, but that that's a nice modern change.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Unfortunately, the battery themselves, unlike the Accara, is just uh four double A's, and

00:12:27 ◼   ► they don't last as long as the Accara battery, and then you're using double

00:12:30 ◼   ► A batteries, which feels really the a rechargeable battery pack, just feels like a

00:12:35 ◼   ► much nicer setup.

00:12:37 ◼   ► Um doesn't do fingerprint, doesn't do key.

00:12:40 ◼   ► I don't really care.

00:12:41 ◼   ► Some people will like that it doesn't do it, doesn't have a keyhole, because

00:12:45 ◼   ► that's a one less thing.

00:12:47 ◼   ► Somebody can pick the key, pick the lock, and uh, and this one doesn't

00:12:52 ◼   ► have that.

00:12:53 ◼   ► So that that's all nice.

00:12:54 ◼   ► It's a good product.

00:12:55 ◼   ► My big issue with it is that the Accara UWB lock, which is the

00:12:59 ◼   ► first on the market, costs like $260, and this costs $400.

00:13:04 ◼   ► So yeah, it's a lot more expensive.

00:13:07 ◼   ► And it doesn't really feel like you get features, right?

00:13:11 ◼   ► Like if anything, it feels like in some spots it has maybe not all

00:13:15 ◼   ► the features, but whether you want them or not, right?

00:13:17 ◼   ► Like you say, it doesn't have to fingerprint.

00:13:19 ◼   ► I don't know if people want that, but it's uh a different feature set,

00:13:22 ◼   ► but you really you're paying for the look.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:13:26 ◼   ► I mean, and it's and I I heard from some people who are just

00:13:28 ◼   ► like, I don't, you know, I this is a company that does locks and

00:13:31 ◼   ► a cara is not, and so I trust them more.

00:13:32 ◼   ► And it's like, I get it.

00:13:34 ◼   ► There are lots of reasons.

00:13:34 ◼   ► Like, I don't, I thought I was gonna have an answer here about like

00:13:38 ◼   ► this one's better, this one's worse.

00:13:39 ◼   ► And in the end, my answer is they're both fine, and one of them

00:13:43 ◼   ► costs way more than the other.

00:13:45 ◼   ► And like if you have a satin nickel front door, because they only it

00:13:49 ◼   ► can only the the Schlager only comes in two colors, black and satin nickel.

00:13:52 ◼   ► They used to have more colors, they used to have like a go a

00:13:54 ◼   ► brass or whatever.

00:13:55 ◼   ► If it matches the style of your door, you probably it's probably worth it

00:13:57 ◼   ► to spend 400.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Mine is like that, because it it's less obtrusive and it matches my door,

00:14:02 ◼   ► and the ACAR is just a big black blob.

00:14:04 ◼   ► It also doesn't look like a keypad lock.

00:14:07 ◼   ► Like, I don't know what I would think this was if I saw it.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Um, but the Akkara is very much like welcome to this Airbnb.

00:14:15 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:14:15 ◼   ► Yeah, this is this is a lot more subtle.

00:14:17 ◼   ► It's like a little uh it's almost like a little trackpad attached to your

00:14:14 ◼   ► door.

00:14:21 ◼   ► But when you touch it, um the numbers come up and you can poke

00:14:24 ◼   ► in the little numbers and get in that way.

00:14:26 ◼   ► That's a way like your dog walker can put in the numbers or or

00:14:29 ◼   ► your house cleaner or your house sitter.

00:14:32 ◼   ► We have a house sitter, and she's got her code.

00:14:35 ◼   ► And all works with home kit and all of that.

00:14:36 ◼   ► So it really is, yeah.

00:14:37 ◼   ► I think aesthetics is actually the biggest thing about it.

00:14:40 ◼   ► Um it's just much more slimline attractive.

00:14:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:45 ◼   ► And maybe that matters to you.

00:14:46 ◼   ► But uh 400 bucks.

00:14:48 ◼   ► It's like for for some people, it's gonna be like, I don't care about

00:14:50 ◼   ► that stuff.

00:14:51 ◼   ► Well, 260 for the Accara will do you then.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Are you gonna stick with the Schlager?

00:14:58 ◼   ► I haven't decided yet.

00:14:59 ◼   ► I I actually have an email in to them about like, you know, we

00:15:03 ◼   ► had a swap, so they sent me in a different one because one of

00:15:06 ◼   ► them wasn't working right, and and uh so I had to take it off

00:15:09 ◼   ► and then put another one on.

00:15:10 ◼   ► So I'm kind of don't want to do it, but like so I ship

00:15:13 ◼   ► that one back.

00:15:14 ◼   ► So my question to the PR person now is, you know, do you want

00:15:17 ◼   ► this back or not?

00:15:18 ◼   ► If they want it back, I'll take it off my door.

00:15:20 ◼   ► If they don't want it back, I may leave it on my door at

00:15:22 ◼   ► least for a while because honestly, I do not want to spend another two

00:15:26 ◼   ► hours after I already just spent two hours swapping locks.

00:15:30 ◼   ► But I like the Accara.

00:15:31 ◼   ► I would be happy to put the Accara back.

00:15:33 ◼   ► I just don't know.

00:15:34 ◼   ► Um, you know, sometimes with vendors it's very funny.

00:15:38 ◼   ► Sometimes they want like with Apple, it's like this too.

00:15:40 ◼   ► Like companies want stuff above a certain value back, but like below a certain

00:15:45 ◼   ► value, they're like, they've already written that product off.

00:15:47 ◼   ► There's nothing they can do with it, and they're like, we don't want it

00:15:49 ◼   ► back.

00:15:50 ◼   ► Just give it away or keep it or whatever.

00:15:51 ◼   ► We don't care.

00:15:52 ◼   ► And I'm unclear where this $400 lock falls into that.

00:15:55 ◼   ► Um, so I don't know.

00:15:56 ◼   ► But I would really like to not take a lock off my door for

00:16:00 ◼   ► a little while, even though I've got the Akara in a bag, and I've

00:16:04 ◼   ► got all I got the boxes here.

00:15:59 ◼   ► So we'll see what they say.

00:16:06 ◼   ► But um I like the Akar fine.

00:16:09 ◼   ► I I just Lauren agrees with me though, that she's like, this one looks

00:16:12 ◼   ► nicer.

00:16:12 ◼   ► It does look winner.

00:16:13 ◼   ► She's not wrong.

00:16:13 ◼   ► It looks a lot nicer.

00:16:15 ◼   ► That's true.

00:16:15 ◼   ► It's true.

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00:17:30 ◼   ► all of relay.

00:17:32 ◼   ► It is time to lawyer up, Jason Snow.

00:17:35 ◼   ► Yeeha!

00:17:36 ◼   ► Nope.

00:17:37 ◼   ► Tong tongue tunk.

00:17:38 ◼   ► It's a country lawyer this time.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Oh, wow.

00:17:41 ◼   ► Okay.

00:17:41 ◼   ► So what is this like a Western theme?

00:17:44 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a Western theme, Mike.

00:17:44 ◼   ► I'm getting into a Western theme.

00:17:47 ◼   ► Lawyer.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Okay, so.

00:17:44 ◼   ► Alright, everybody.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Here we go.

00:17:53 ◼   ► Maybe for the last time.

00:17:55 ◼   ► Okay.

00:17:56 ◼   ► Apple has taken.

00:17:58 ◼   ► No, come on, Jason.

00:17:59 ◼   ► All right.

00:17:59 ◼   ► Let's have faith.

00:18:00 ◼   ► Apple has taken another crack at DMA compliance at the App Store.

00:18:04 ◼   ► And it seems like they may have done it this time.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:09 ◼   ► Get ready, chat.

00:18:10 ◼   ► We may have done it.

00:18:11 ◼   ► We finally, we've finally done it.

00:18:13 ◼   ► So the biggest takeaway is they're simplifying things, I would say.

00:18:19 ◼   ► There's still complexity, of course, but there is an overall simplification.

00:18:25 ◼   ► And it seems like they're focusing on a, I think, more understandable set of

00:18:30 ◼   ► rules to get their cuts.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Like one of the big things, I could spoil it.

00:18:35 ◼   ► The core technology fee still exists, but only in very specific circumstances where that

00:18:40 ◼   ► was something that was incredibly uh uh confusing.

00:18:42 ◼   ► And it did remind me in doing this, the last proposal that they made

00:18:47 ◼   ► for where they introduced the core technology fee, where it was previously called the

00:18:52 ◼   ► Core Technology Commission, I think.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

00:18:56 ◼   ► That version with the you know what?

00:18:58 ◼   ► I think it was originally called the Core Technology Feed, then they changed it

00:19:01 ◼   ► to Core Technology Commission.

00:19:03 ◼   ► That version of their DMA rules never shipped.

00:19:07 ◼   ► They never did it.

00:19:08 ◼   ► Like they were like, it's happening, and they never did it.

00:19:12 ◼   ► It never happened.

00:19:13 ◼   ► And it's because immediately the EU was like, no, stop it.

00:19:18 ◼   ► And so they've gone back to the drawing board, they've gone back to the

00:19:21 ◼   ► negotiating table.

00:19:23 ◼   ► This is where we are.

00:19:24 ◼   ► So one of the key things here is that this set of rules that

00:19:28 ◼   ► I'm about to talk about, previously, developers had to opt in to these business

00:19:29 ◼   ► terms, they were called.

00:19:35 ◼   ► You could stay on the old ones or go to the new ones.

00:19:38 ◼   ► But now all European developers will be automatically opted into these new terms from

00:19:43 ◼   ► October 1st.

00:19:44 ◼   ► And that is because if you don't want to take part in alternative app

00:19:49 ◼   ► marketplaces or external payments or anything, your situation actually is better than before.

00:19:55 ◼   ► So it's why not roll everyone into it, right?

00:19:57 ◼   ► I think they're able to do that, and they've just got these new terms.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Where previously you would have had to have made decisions, right?

00:20:03 ◼   ► Like if you had enough downloads, maybe you're gonna have to pay fees, you

00:20:05 ◼   ► have to do auditing and all this kind of stuff.

00:20:07 ◼   ► So then maybe you opt in, but now that's not the case.

00:20:10 ◼   ► So the biggest news here is that the standard commission for publishing an app

00:20:15 ◼   ► in the app store has been reduced to 26% from 30% if you use

00:20:20 ◼   ► Apple's in-app purchase system, and it will continue to be 15% for subscription renewals

00:20:26 ◼   ► and for developers in one of their various programs, right?

00:20:30 ◼   ► They have like a suite of programs that you can be a part of

00:20:33 ◼   ► if you're a special enough developer.

00:20:35 ◼   ► They have the small business program, but they also have the mini-apps program and

00:20:38 ◼   ► the readers app program and the video app program, it'd be 15% for them.

00:20:43 ◼   ► It's 20% for if you want to use alternative payment processing.

00:20:48 ◼   ► So you want to remain in the app store but use payment processing from

00:20:50 ◼   ► somewhere else, that's 20%.

00:20:53 ◼   ► Or 10% if you're in one of the programs.

00:20:55 ◼   ► If you link out to complete purchases, right?

00:20:58 ◼   ► So you're let's say let me think of a let's say you're a Kindle,

00:21:04 ◼   ► right?

00:21:04 ◼   ► And you want to have a link out.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Right.

00:21:07 ◼   ► You have to pay Apple 15%, 10% if you're in the programs.

00:21:13 ◼   ► And now the core technology fee remains as a per install fee of 5%

00:21:18 ◼   ► for any sale of digital goods or services for transactions made outside of the

00:21:21 ◼   ► app store if you're using an alternative marketplace or web distribution.

00:21:27 ◼   ► That's the base, it's basically a yeah, you you owe Apple 5% for the

00:21:33 ◼   ► money you make from your app if it's not in the app store.

00:21:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:36 ◼   ► And the other ones, the the alternative payment processing, that's if you remain in

00:21:40 ◼   ► the app store, but you want to have alternative payment processing.

00:21:42 ◼   ► Um and then you've got the the main ones.

00:21:45 ◼   ► So like the the I think the biggest news, uh oh, sorry, it's the

00:21:49 ◼   ► commission now.

00:21:49 ◼   ► Uh it's called the Core Technology Commission.

00:21:51 ◼   ► I wrote Core Technology fee in my notes here.

00:21:53 ◼   ► It's the core technology commission.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Um, this I think the biggest news here is you get a bit of

00:21:59 ◼   ► a discount, right?

00:22:00 ◼   ► If you're a developer in the EU now, you go from a 30% to

00:22:02 ◼   ► 26%, which is nice, I suppose.

00:22:06 ◼   ► Like I don't think it's huge, but that's a nice thing.

00:22:09 ◼   ► One of the things that was always so frustrating to us when looking at

00:22:12 ◼   ► this stuff, going back all the way to the beginning of the DMA was

00:22:16 ◼   ► the reporting requirements that Apple would make you do, where they are basically wanted

00:22:21 ◼   ► you to open the books.

00:22:22 ◼   ► And I was reading in the news about this, you know, I was reading

00:22:25 ◼   ► Apple's press release, and then I was reading all of the reports, and I'm

00:22:28 ◼   ► like, hmm.

00:22:30 ◼   ► There's a lot more that you would have to prove to Apple now than

00:22:34 ◼   ► you did before, because we didn't have this like link out requirement.

00:22:38 ◼   ► And like, so like what's going on here?

00:22:40 ◼   ► How did I know?

00:22:41 ◼   ► And so I went to the uh developer website and dug through some of

00:22:45 ◼   ► the stuff, and I want to read to you, this is a little bit

00:22:48 ◼   ► long, but I think it's interesting.

00:22:50 ◼   ► The reporting requirements if you opt in to any of these kind of like

00:22:54 ◼   ► alternative systems.

00:22:56 ◼   ► So for purchases of digital goods or services on the App Store that don't

00:22:59 ◼   ► use Apple's in-app purchase, you're responsible for the collection and remittance of any applicable

00:23:05 ◼   ► taxes for sales processed by an alternative payment provider.

00:23:09 ◼   ► You're also required to track and send Apple a report of all alternative payment

00:23:14 ◼   ► transactions for applicable commission fee calculation and collection purposes.

00:23:18 ◼   ► Required reporting includes refunds, corrections, renewals, one-time purchases, and transactions that don't result in

00:23:25 ◼   ► a purchase.

00:23:26 ◼   ► That's unbelievable, that last one.

00:23:28 ◼   ► This report will need to be provided monthly within 15 days following the end

00:23:33 ◼   ► of the calendar month.

00:23:34 ◼   ► Please note that Apple has audit rights pursuant to the terms and conditions in

00:23:39 ◼   ► the Apple Developer Program license agreement.

00:23:41 ◼   ► This allows Apple to review the accuracy of a developer's record of digital transactions

00:23:46 ◼   ► as a result of the entitlement, ensuring the appropriate commission has been paid to

00:23:50 ◼   ► Apple.

00:23:51 ◼   ► Failure to pay Apple's commission could result in the offset of proceeds owed to

00:23:55 ◼   ► you in other markets, removal of your app from the App Store, or removal

00:23:59 ◼   ► from the Apple developer program.

00:24:01 ◼   ► That part of the end, wild to me.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Like if they think you're not giving them all their money, they'll just take

00:24:06 ◼   ► your money.

00:24:07 ◼   ► And it's like we'll take it from somewhere else.

00:24:09 ◼   ► And then lastly, developers who distribute their apps via alternative distribution, including those who

00:24:15 ◼   ► operate marketplaces, are responsible for reporting their transactions or digital goods and services to

00:24:20 ◼   ► Apple.

00:24:21 ◼   ► All transactions subject to the Core Technology Commission must be reported, including transactions that

00:24:26 ◼   ► didn't result in a completed sale.

00:24:28 ◼   ► That part of the that part, the you gotta tell us the transactions that

00:24:33 ◼   ► didn't report in a sale.

00:24:34 ◼   ► I'm a little bit like, why is that your business?

00:24:37 ◼   ► Uh they may have analytics that suggest what the volume is, and so you

00:24:42 ◼   ► need to say, you know, they I don't know, but Apple may know you

00:24:46 ◼   ► got a hundred thousand referrals, and you say you only got 80,000 sales the

00:24:53 ◼   ► rest.

00:24:57 ◼   ► I was wondering if it was a bit like, hey, you're not doing a

00:24:59 ◼   ► good enough job of converting, but get your rates up, buddy.

00:25:02 ◼   ► That's money, that's our money.

00:25:04 ◼   ► So, I mean, again, it's like you can do all this stuff, right?

00:25:07 ◼   ► So you can do alternative payment processing, you'll get a six percent discount, which

00:25:14 ◼   ► you know.

00:25:14 ◼   ► I've heard a lot of people talking about the now, I've read something from

00:25:17 ◼   ► Ben Thompson a little bit, but he was on on Dillering and in his

00:25:20 ◼   ► daily update was saying, you know, about six percent, between six to ten percent

00:25:23 ◼   ► is kind of like the cost of using a credit card provider once you've

00:25:27 ◼   ► considered the fees and also refunds and all the stuff you lose.

00:25:31 ◼   ► So essentially, let's just say that let's just let's just say for the sake

00:25:35 ◼   ► of it that six percent is how much it, you know, you you would

00:25:38 ◼   ► that's how much that would cost.

00:25:41 ◼   ► The difference is six percent between that and using alternative payment processing, and then

00:25:46 ◼   ► you have I would say quite a big cost in your hand from a

00:25:49 ◼   ► bookkeeping perspective, if you're a big enough business, of you would need someone to

00:25:54 ◼   ► do this work, provide this documentation to Apple, deal with Apple.

00:26:00 ◼   ► They have continued to create a scenario where I think it's just not worth

00:26:05 ◼   ► it, right?

00:26:06 ◼   ► To do.

00:26:09 ◼   ► It's hard to say.

00:26:10 ◼   ► It's really hard to say.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Unless you're a massive company, I think.

00:26:14 ◼   ► It it feels to me, it feels to me like this entire thing is

00:26:19 ◼   ► the EU basically saying forget about it.

00:26:21 ◼   ► We've given up.

00:26:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:22 ◼   ► It feels like that.

00:26:23 ◼   ► Forget about it.

00:26:24 ◼   ► More like, and a more like give us something that we can use to

00:26:28 ◼   ► declare victory, which they did declare, right?

00:26:30 ◼   ► Like, we protected consumers and this is great, without actually doing much of what

00:26:36 ◼   ► they meant to do.

00:26:38 ◼   ► Um of these things are good.

00:26:41 ◼   ► I I still get bugged by the fact that if you want to if

00:26:46 ◼   ► you want to offer your app for external download, you have to prove that

00:26:51 ◼   ► you're you know, you you have to get done in Bradstreet Street to verify

00:26:55 ◼   ► your business or something.

00:26:57 ◼   ► It's gotten a little bit easier though.

00:26:59 ◼   ► So yeah, but not but it's still like you you still gotta prove.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Like, if I if I wanted to release an app, I would either need

00:27:07 ◼   ► to pay for a Dun and Bradstreet audit or pay for an accountant to

00:27:11 ◼   ► prove that I was whatever to put up like literally to put up a

00:27:14 ◼   ► free app, yeah, I would have to do that.

00:27:17 ◼   ► So now it there used to be that there was like a bunch of

00:27:20 ◼   ► stuff you had to do.

00:27:21 ◼   ► Oh yeah, you had to have like a million dollars in the bank and

00:27:23 ◼   ► stuff, right?

00:27:23 ◼   ► So but now if you're if you want to operate an app marketplace or

00:27:28 ◼   ► have um uh an app on the web.

00:27:31 ◼   ► Not a billion, a million, just a million euro in it.

00:27:33 ◼   ► Just a million.

00:27:34 ◼   ► Uh we all have that.

00:27:35 ◼   ► You gotta meet a moderate financial stability bar as scored by Dun and Brad

00:27:38 ◼   ► Street.

00:27:39 ◼   ► Any developer knows how horrific uh a process that is.

00:27:41 ◼   ► Yeah, a publicly traded or owned by a publicly traded company have received venture

00:27:46 ◼   ► funding from an established investment firm.

00:27:48 ◼   ► That's my favorite one.

00:27:49 ◼   ► I don't even understand that.

00:27:50 ◼   ► Have a completed financial audit by a licensed accountant, or are a government entity

00:27:54 ◼   ► educational institutional nonprofit.

00:27:56 ◼   ► So still there is a bar, which should there even be a bar, but

00:27:59 ◼   ► there is a bar, but the bar is easier to achieve now than it

00:28:02 ◼   ► was before.

00:28:03 ◼   ► But I agree with you that like kind of having to do any of

00:28:06 ◼   ► this feels a little bit ridiculous for just wanting to offer an app on

00:28:10 ◼   ► the iPhone.

00:28:11 ◼   ► Like but you gotta get done a breadth street if you're a developer anyway.

00:28:14 ◼   ► So if you want to offer it anywhere.

00:28:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I um so so that part of it, like again, I it it

00:28:22 ◼   ► all feels like it's minor concessions.

00:28:25 ◼   ► It does feel like uh this is kind of a win for Apple.

00:28:28 ◼   ► I also wonder if Apple is going to now be able to use this

00:28:32 ◼   ► and point at it and say, look, the EU is satisfied with this.

00:28:35 ◼   ► Why don't we just make this the deal everywhere and get everybody else off

00:28:38 ◼   ► their backs, or whether that's not going to be allowed.

00:28:40 ◼   ► It's still not the same as other places have done, though, right?

00:28:43 ◼   ► I think like in Japan, they have a completely different rule of rules for

00:28:47 ◼   ► linking out.

00:28:48 ◼   ► I know.

00:28:48 ◼   ► I that is the one that frustrates me the most.

00:28:50 ◼   ► That that bugs that bugs me the most because that that is literally the

00:28:54 ◼   ► EU apparently saying it's okay.

00:28:56 ◼   ► Steering is fine after all, apparently, right?

00:28:59 ◼   ► Like unbelievable.

00:29:00 ◼   ► The fundamental lack of competitiveness of you used the Kindle example of the fact

00:29:04 ◼   ► that Apple can build a bookstore and sell books direct, but but Amazon can't

00:29:11 ◼   ► be because they have to pay their entire profit to Apple for being in

00:29:16 ◼   ► the app store.

00:29:17 ◼   ► And what Apple said what Apple basically says is you're using our APIs and

00:29:23 ◼   ► the app store itself, and that is worth 15% right there.

00:29:28 ◼   ► And so that's what you're gonna give us is 15% of every single transaction.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Yep.

00:29:32 ◼   ► And like I mean, that's so that's super anti-competitive, yeah, which I thought was

00:29:37 ◼   ► the problem here.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Uh giving giving I mean, Apple is happy to give you a discount on

00:29:42 ◼   ► stuff in exchange for allowing them to continue to have reduced competition, right?

00:29:47 ◼   ► What a deal for Apple.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:49 ◼   ► I love, I love the fact that the EU has said you can make

00:29:54 ◼   ► an app store and not be Apple, and that you can, I think more

00:29:58 ◼   ► important, because I hate, I hate the alternative app store.

00:30:00 ◼   ► I'm just gonna say it.

00:29:59 ◼   ► I hate alternative app stores.

00:29:59 ◼   ► Sorry to Riley at Alt Store.

00:30:05 ◼   ► I mean, in it's fine.

00:30:07 ◼   ► I hate the solution to the app store being a monopoly, being other gatekeepers.

00:30:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:14 ◼   ► I hate it.

00:30:15 ◼   ► Everyone should just be able to down uh put their software up for download

00:30:19 ◼   ► like a Mac.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Download software.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Here's my app.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Go get it and pay me.

00:30:23 ◼   ► And like that is what software always was before the app store.

00:30:28 ◼   ► A lot of software is still like that.

00:30:30 ◼   ► I hate that.

00:30:30 ◼   ► I hate that even now you need to kind of like confirm that you're

00:30:33 ◼   ► a decent whatever in order to do that, but at least you can do

00:30:36 ◼   ► that in the EU.

00:30:37 ◼   ► So that's something.

00:30:39 ◼   ► Um and for small businesses, there's more opportunity here.

00:30:43 ◼   ► It it's just this is this is competition, but it's like super managed competition

00:30:49 ◼   ► at a level that the goal is to make it Apple's goal is to

00:30:54 ◼   ► make it as unappealing as possible to compete with Apple.

00:30:59 ◼   ► Like, why even bother?

00:31:00 ◼   ► Just give up.

00:31:01 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's the that I I get what you're saying, and I know

00:31:04 ◼   ► you're gonna agree with me when I say it is.

00:31:06 ◼   ► I'm happy that alternative app marketplaces exist.

00:31:09 ◼   ► I'm unhappy that it is really the only way for a small or independent

00:31:15 ◼   ► developer to put an app on the app store that's not through Apple.

00:31:19 ◼   ► That's my point is they're like, oh, you know, there's a middleman taking my

00:31:23 ◼   ► money, and I want to just go direct to customers and in comes Epic,

00:31:27 ◼   ► and they're like, good news, everybody, we've saved you.

00:31:29 ◼   ► We're the middleman now.

00:31:30 ◼   ► It's like, no, I don't want you, I don't want a middleman.

00:31:34 ◼   ► I just want to sell my software.

00:31:36 ◼   ► So at least that's so that's why I was always frustrated by it.

00:31:39 ◼   ► It's like, great, just go get some VC investment, and then now now you

00:31:43 ◼   ► can offer your own.

00:31:44 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:31:45 ◼   ► Step one, put a million euros in the bank.

00:31:44 ◼   ► Um, which is again not quite what's going on here, apparently.

00:31:51 ◼   ► So yeah, I I what was it all for?

00:31:54 ◼   ► It does feel like the EU just was tired of fighting and it's new

00:31:57 ◼   ► people in charge of the EU uh stuff, and they've gone up.

00:32:00 ◼   ► This isn't their fight.

00:32:01 ◼   ► They've given up, and it feels like now the EU have given up so

00:32:07 ◼   ► they can say, look what we made them do, and really you didn't make

00:32:11 ◼   ► them do anything.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Yeah, no, that that that's the di give up and declare victory.

00:32:14 ◼   ► It's a classic uh refuge of a lot of politicians.

00:32:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like, oh, what you gave was four percent.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Which look, it is an amount of money that for some developers in Europe,

00:32:24 ◼   ► you just got a four percent raise.

00:32:26 ◼   ► Congratulations.

00:32:27 ◼   ► Like, that is great news, but it should be more than this.

00:32:32 ◼   ► Like, when this all kicked off, I was like, great, there's not gonna be

00:32:35 ◼   ► a fee anymore, right?

00:32:37 ◼   ► It's like, no, that is not at all what is happening.

00:32:40 ◼   ► I get like I I just feel like we did not get to a

00:32:44 ◼   ► point here that is in any way satisfying.

00:32:49 ◼   ► I can really it's just been a confusing slog for years to get to

00:32:58 ◼   ► it's a four percent difference, and oh, you can link out now, but you've

00:33:01 ◼   ► got to pay gotta pay your tax percent to the tax man, you know?

00:33:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Uh Ben Thompson uh did something fun on Shotecari, where in looking at the

00:33:12 ◼   ► the different kind of percentage tiers that Apple's offering here has created what he

00:33:18 ◼   ► believes is this is what Apple thinks their implied value is for each part

00:33:23 ◼   ► of the chain.

00:33:24 ◼   ► So I'll just read this and you can you can go read his post

00:33:27 ◼   ► it supposedly it goes into more detail about how he gets here, but it's

00:33:30 ◼   ► understandable.

00:33:31 ◼   ► With the the fees that they're charging, the commissions that they want to charge,

00:33:35 ◼   ► Apple is implying that the value of their APIs is 5% of an app's

00:33:40 ◼   ► revenue, app store distribution is worth 10%, in-app payment is worth 5%, and in-app

00:33:48 ◼   ► purchase with their payment processing is 6%.

00:33:51 ◼   ► So just being able to use the in-app payment API is five is worth

00:33:55 ◼   ► 5% of your revenue, and the payment processing part is worth 6%.

00:34:00 ◼   ► I just thought that was an interesting like little calculation of like Apple have

00:34:05 ◼   ► been asked essentially to come up with a set of numbers.

00:34:08 ◼   ► Like this is an actual set of numbers they've been they've been asked to

00:34:11 ◼   ► come up with, and they've come up with them.

00:34:13 ◼   ► You know, we're talking about you know you're saying they might use this elsewhere,

00:34:16 ◼   ► they may try and use this calculation with Judge Gonzalez Rogers.

00:34:20 ◼   ► Maybe they're like, let's go back to the table now because we've actually we

00:34:23 ◼   ► have some we have done some work of some description now in another place

00:34:29 ◼   ► to try and suggest what the numbers are, and oh by the way, the

00:34:33 ◼   ► EU said this is okay, as you were mentioning.

00:34:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:37 ◼   ► So what do you agree now, Judge?

00:34:39 ◼   ► Which yeah.

00:34:40 ◼   ► Big Daddy EU says it's fine.

00:34:42 ◼   ► So it's just this doesn't enable any competition at the in the end of

00:34:46 ◼   ► the whole thing.

00:34:47 ◼   ► No, I mean, okay, I uh I don't disagree with Apple saying we provide

00:34:52 ◼   ► you with APIs and that the app store has value.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:55 ◼   ► I don't disagree with that.

00:34:56 ◼   ► I agree, yes, of course it does.

00:34:58 ◼   ► I my biggest issue, and I know what's going on here because it's about

00:35:03 ◼   ► in-app purchases of consumables and games, which are an enormous profit center for everybody

00:35:08 ◼   ► in the app store.

00:35:10 ◼   ► But what bugs me about it is the idea that like because we provided

00:35:14 ◼   ► you with the APIs and because we provided you with the app store, we

00:35:14 ◼   ► now you now owe us everything you else you do with that app.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Like that's all fruits of our tree, and therefore everything that happens that's beneficial

00:35:28 ◼   ► to you after that is also because of us, and you need to give

00:35:32 ◼   ► us our cut.

00:35:32 ◼   ► And that bugs me, and it leads to see this this is I am

00:35:38 ◼   ► not a lawyer, so I'm very much not a judge.

00:35:41 ◼   ► But like the thing I keep coming back to is what about areas of

00:35:47 ◼   ► um of Apple kneecapping its competitors in fields that it's in.

00:35:54 ◼   ► So areas where Apple doesn't have to pay the fee and can build a

00:35:58 ◼   ► business model and books is the example, but there are others where I think

00:36:06 ◼   ► the personally not a lawyer.

00:36:08 ◼   ► I think the existence of Apple Books and the Apple Books store means that

00:36:14 ◼   ► uh anybody who's selling books via a link out shouldn't have to pay.

00:36:18 ◼   ► Because Apple has chosen to compete in that business, I think Apple needs to

00:36:26 ◼   ► be restrained from preventing competition.

00:36:29 ◼   ► The same for Spotify.

00:36:31 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Because Apple chooses to compete in that area.

00:36:34 ◼   ► Because that's that's the stuff that really bugs me.

00:36:36 ◼   ► I d I'm not as bugged by the things that bug um the guy

00:36:42 ◼   ► from Epic, right?

00:36:43 ◼   ► Like I I I I'm not bugged as much by that because I I

00:36:47 ◼   ► think that there is I understand Apple's argument here to a certain extent, but

00:36:52 ◼   ► what I don't like is all the ways Apple leverages it to prevent competition.

00:36:57 ◼   ► Um that's where it that's where it really goes over the edge to me.

00:37:00 ◼   ► So that that's the that's the stuff that bugs me is if Apple's gonna

00:37:03 ◼   ► compete, it can't use its claim of value add to bar other entities from

00:37:11 ◼   ► competing with it in areas Apple chooses to compete in.

00:37:14 ◼   ► If Apple chooses not to compete in an area, I feel different about it.

00:37:18 ◼   ► I really do, but that is that's the part that really really stops me.

00:37:22 ◼   ► Because I I think it is fair.

00:37:23 ◼   ► I think obviously payment processing has value, APIs have value, the app store certainly

00:37:30 ◼   ► has value.

00:37:31 ◼   ► Um we could argue about what that value is.

00:37:34 ◼   ► I would argue that the value of the app store, um, if you don't

00:37:38 ◼   ► spend money on ads, maybe isn't what Apple thinks it is.

00:37:42 ◼   ► And that my I could argue that App Store distribution itself is not does

00:37:45 ◼   ► not have the value that Apple thinks it does.

00:37:48 ◼   ► There's no argument it doesn't anymore.

00:37:50 ◼   ► Right?

00:37:50 ◼   ► That you're being kind.

00:37:51 ◼   ► It used to be it doesn't mean anything anymore.

00:37:54 ◼   ► No, this is this is what my argument would be.

00:37:56 ◼   ► The implied so Ben says the implied value of app store distribution is 10%

00:37:59 ◼   ► of an app's revenue.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Total revenue, not just what you pay for the app.

00:38:02 ◼   ► Yeah, the total ongoing in a purchase subscription revenue of an app is 10%

00:38:08 ◼   ► of the app store.

00:38:09 ◼   ► And what I would say to that is what you said, which is the

00:38:13 ◼   ► truth is the implied value of app store distribution is almost zero.

00:38:18 ◼   ► And Apple makes its money because now in order to get noticed, you have

00:38:22 ◼   ► to pay for ads in the app store.

00:38:24 ◼   ► Yep.

00:38:24 ◼   ► So they've devalued the the app store itself by doing that.

00:38:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:29 ◼   ► Now maybe, maybe what they should do is say, we need 10% of your

00:38:32 ◼   ► revenue, but you'll get credits for ads as a part of that.

00:38:35 ◼   ► I don't know, something like that.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Right?

00:38:37 ◼   ► We're gonna take 10%, but you can use the first 5%.

00:38:40 ◼   ► You said something about APIs, right?

00:38:42 ◼   ► Like having a value.

00:38:43 ◼   ► And yeah.

00:38:44 ◼   ► This is like X code and maintaining and building an entire third party.

00:38:48 ◼   ► I agree to a point.

00:38:49 ◼   ► Like I don't believe it is a percentage value of your overall revenue.

00:38:54 ◼   ► I agree, right?

00:38:55 ◼   ► I agree.

00:38:55 ◼   ► And Apple proves it themselves because they maintain APIs on the Mac and do

00:39:01 ◼   ► not require that you right.

00:39:02 ◼   ► So like the I know the thing that is so unbelievable about these arguments

00:39:06 ◼   ► is it's as if there are two companies inside Apple.

00:39:11 ◼   ► There is one that maintains the open platform and one that maintains the closed

00:39:15 ◼   ► platform, and they try and forget that the other exists.

00:39:18 ◼   ► It's unbelievable.

00:39:20 ◼   ► Hey, your your guy is out there writing that, you know, the Mac is

00:39:23 ◼   ► the model and pointing to that article I wrote.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Like Apple has a whole business model that makes sense, and they just don't

00:39:28 ◼   ► want to use it for lots of reasons, and I get why lots of

00:39:32 ◼   ► millions and millions of reasons.

00:39:34 ◼   ► But um, yeah, it it's very silly because in the end, also let's just

00:39:39 ◼   ► say it, Apple benefits greatly from the existence of third-party apps on its platforms.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Without third-party apps on Apple's platforms, it would not be much of a platform.

00:39:46 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:46 ◼   ► So there is a quid pro quote there.

00:39:48 ◼   ► Apple is not building APIs for third-party apps out of the goodness of its

00:39:53 ◼   ► heart.

00:39:54 ◼   ► Mac OS and iOS are not open source Linux distributions, right?

00:39:58 ◼   ► Like you you can't use them on products that Apple doesn't make, right?

00:40:05 ◼   ► Like so we mentioned uh in our Discord that many of us pay $99

00:40:11 ◼   ► a year to be in the Apple developer program.

00:40:12 ◼   ► That's the one that I always kept coming back to, and I know why

00:40:15 ◼   ► they don't want to do it.

00:40:15 ◼   ► They don't want to do it because they want everything to be a percentage

00:40:17 ◼   ► of revenue, because they want to capture revenue.

00:40:19 ◼   ► And if you're thinking about small developers, they pay less.

00:40:22 ◼   ► Big developers pay more.

00:40:24 ◼   ► I keep thinking like the other way they could have approached this is to

00:40:27 ◼   ► say for commercial developers, for developers of uh above a certain point, the Apple

00:40:29 ◼   ► developer program is either a much larger network.

00:40:37 ◼   ► Or a classic that you'll if you've ever shopped for software that has an

00:40:41 ◼   ► enterprise tier, they'll be like, would you like $99 a year?

00:40:45 ◼   ► Would you like $999 a year?

00:40:47 ◼   ► Or for our enterprise customers, call us.

00:40:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:50 ◼   ► Call us.

00:40:51 ◼   ► We can't.

00:40:51 ◼   ► If you have to ask what the price is, you can't afford it.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:54 ◼   ► And they could do that.

00:40:55 ◼   ► They could do it that way, but they've chosen but they don't want to

00:40:58 ◼   ► do it that way because that's a that that is a a different conversation

00:41:02 ◼   ► than saying we just put up a toll booth and take all your revenue.

00:41:06 ◼   ► Or you know, take a percentage of all of your revenue.

00:41:09 ◼   ► So they don't want to do that.

00:41:10 ◼   ► Anyway, I I don't deny that there Apple has has creates some value here,

00:41:14 ◼   ► but there are a lot of these things that bug the crap out of

00:41:17 ◼   ► me.

00:41:17 ◼   ► And that's just, you know, this is I Apple's opinion of the value it

00:41:23 ◼   ► creates in its ecosystem is um higher than my opinion of the value it

00:41:28 ◼   ► creates in its ecosystem.

00:41:29 ◼   ► That's the bottom line.

00:41:31 ◼   ► But the EU is done.

00:41:33 ◼   ► The EU just is just wants this to be over, clearly.

00:41:35 ◼   ► They they don't want to fight, you know, the old people who were there

00:41:39 ◼   ► wanted to fight this, and in today's political uh climate and whatever you know

00:41:44 ◼   ► is going on in the EU, the people there now do not want to

00:41:48 ◼   ► fight anymore.

00:41:49 ◼   ► You know I love Conspiracy Corner with these things, showing a conspiracy corner.

00:41:53 ◼   ► Let's do it.

00:41:54 ◼   ► This has been resolved, right?

00:41:56 ◼   ► Seems seems to be all of a sudden.

00:41:58 ◼   ► Well, Apple and the EU are trying to work together on app on Syria

00:42:02 ◼   ► AI, right?

00:42:03 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Do you think anything could be related?

00:42:05 ◼   ► Like, why don't you actually why don't we all come to the table here,

00:42:09 ◼   ► come to an agreement, and then maybe it will help you get this other

00:42:12 ◼   ► thing that you're looking for?

00:42:13 ◼   ► I think I don't I don't know if it's a quit necessarily a quid

00:42:18 ◼   ► per quo like that, but I think there is definitely this is a maybe

00:42:21 ◼   ► Apple is more incentivized.

00:42:23 ◼   ► Let's all work.

00:42:23 ◼   ► I think it's let's all work together.

00:42:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:26 ◼   ► There's new leadership at the EU, there's new leadership at Apple.

00:42:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Let's all work together to move forward and find a solution here.

00:42:33 ◼   ► Let's settle all family business.

00:42:36 ◼   ► Let's move ahead.

00:42:38 ◼   ► Let's find a way to make this work that works for everybody.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Um I do think that's going on here.

00:42:44 ◼   ► I'm not sure it's it's like you want the Siri AI stuff, you have

00:42:48 ◼   ► to deal with this.

00:42:49 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:42:49 ◼   ► But like I do think it's part of a larger piece, which is let's

00:42:52 ◼   ► be friends.

00:42:53 ◼   ► Let's work.

00:42:53 ◼   ► Let's let's let's find a way.

00:42:56 ◼   ► And it's and then that's politics one-on-one.

00:42:58 ◼   ► Let's find a way for you to make it look like you're doing a

00:43:01 ◼   ► good job while we get to do our business.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:04 ◼   ► What did they say?

00:43:05 ◼   ► The commission welcomes Apple's changes to their business terms, which follow a close dialogue

00:43:10 ◼   ► between the commission and Apple after the commission issued a non-compliance decision.

00:43:14 ◼   ► You think they're compliant?

00:43:16 ◼   ► Whatever.

00:43:16 ◼   ► There's also a bunch of other bits and bobs for child's uh safety, which

00:43:20 ◼   ► it's not really interesting, I think, but they they did some other bits and

00:43:23 ◼   ► bobs too.

00:43:24 ◼   ► But maybe it's the last time we talk about the DMA on this show.

00:43:29 ◼   ► And I think that would be the win for everyone if we don't have

00:43:33 ◼   ► to talk about this anymore.

00:43:34 ◼   ► Remember DMA today?

00:43:36 ◼   ► That was a segment before it became lawyer up.

00:43:38 ◼   ► Yep.

00:43:39 ◼   ► But we had to expand because everybody else got involved.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Sorry, let me add them.

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00:45:17 ◼   ► Rummer roundup time.

00:45:20 ◼   ► No.

00:45:20 ◼   ► What's okay?

00:45:21 ◼   ► What's the story for this?

00:45:22 ◼   ► Clip club, clip club, clip club.

00:45:23 ◼   ► Oh, it was a horse.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Oh, I thought it was the gavel.

00:45:26 ◼   ► That makes sense.

00:45:29 ◼   ► I guess that's the um theme of today's episode of the summer of fun.

00:45:32 ◼   ► Is uh mix up it's all mixed up.

00:45:35 ◼   ► Who knows what's gonna happen?

00:45:36 ◼   ► We have one more sound effect to go today.

00:45:38 ◼   ► Who knows what you're gonna swap in instead of not me, that's for sure.

00:45:42 ◼   ► He's got he's got fifteen minutes to think of it uh irrespective of the

00:45:46 ◼   ► video last week that leaked showing the airpods of a camera Mark Goman is

00:45:51 ◼   ► reporting that nothing has changed on the timeline for this project uh product which

00:45:55 ◼   ► is still intended for a 2027 release just thought I'd share that's a little

00:45:59 ◼   ► detail.

00:46:00 ◼   ► It sounds like uh I think he even offered an explanation that it's like

00:46:03 ◼   ► there's a branch that was incorrectly brought in yeah for the future product this

00:46:09 ◼   ► is not imminent uh nice little detail there.

00:46:13 ◼   ► Yeah like in general that like the the somebody asked in power on I

00:46:17 ◼   ► can bring this up actually if you give me a second because I didn't

00:46:19 ◼   ► actually include this in in my notes today but if you give me a

00:46:23 ◼   ► second to deal with uh Bloomboy Bloomberg's sign in process which I really wished

00:46:28 ◼   ► it would just remember uh and let's let me stay signed in then I

00:46:31 ◼   ► can I can tell you what he said.

00:46:32 ◼   ► Yeah because somebody wrote in an asked like how did all these products leak

00:46:36 ◼   ► all at the same time um and he says the release candidate version which

00:46:42 ◼   ► is about as close as you can get uh to the end of of

00:46:45 ◼   ► Tahoe 26.7 included references uh da da da da da sorry as Apple prepares

00:46:51 ◼   ► software updates for launch it pulls together different development branches containing various features fixes

00:46:55 ◼   ► and other assets in this case it appears an internal branch containing material related

00:47:00 ◼   ► to an unreleased hardware inadvertently got merged into the public branch destined for the

00:47:04 ◼   ► public.

00:47:05 ◼   ► In other words something that was supposed to remain inside of Apple got tangled

00:47:08 ◼   ► up with shipping software.

00:47:10 ◼   ► I mean in this one even worse than it would be or should have

00:47:13 ◼   ► been in just the shipping version of this release because it includes a product

00:47:17 ◼   ► that's not even shipping this year, right?

00:47:19 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:47:19 ◼   ► Like the idea that Macs and iPhones are in Tahoe in 26.7 Tahoe, not

00:47:24 ◼   ► wild, but the fact that there are assets for a product that isn't even

00:47:28 ◼   ► going to come out this year.

00:47:29 ◼   ► Yeah is the really weird part.

00:47:31 ◼   ► And we got more from it too.

00:47:33 ◼   ► So there was more more more spelunking happening over the intervening days.

00:47:38 ◼   ► We have some more details on the home hub product.

00:47:40 ◼   ► Julie Clover at Mac Rumours is reporting on how this device will work with

00:47:45 ◼   ► widgets.

00:47:45 ◼   ► So here's some of the things I feel like we got this one.

00:47:47 ◼   ► I feel like we figured this one out.

00:47:49 ◼   ► The idea that you would use I think you said on this show that

00:47:53 ◼   ► running widgets on the Mac Yeah was a precursor feels like it might be

00:47:59 ◼   ► the method that they use where you get your iPhone widgets not just Mac

00:48:03 ◼   ► widgets your iPhone widgets project onto the Mac.

00:48:06 ◼   ► That was a feature that they added that that would be a way you

00:48:09 ◼   ► could get widgets onto the home hub because that they're projecting from your iPhone

00:48:13 ◼   ► to the home hub and that's what Julie Clover says is happening.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Yeah because before that we were like oh is it going to be like

00:48:18 ◼   ► CarPlay right like that was like the closest link that people could consider for

00:48:21 ◼   ► how a product like this could work.

00:48:23 ◼   ► But yeah so it would essentially be pulling widgets from your iPhone like there's

00:48:28 ◼   ► not going to be a native app store on this product which is absolutely

00:48:31 ◼   ► the right move but then it's like if you know if how how is

00:48:35 ◼   ► it all going to work?

00:48:36 ◼   ► How's it all going to tie together?

00:48:37 ◼   ► So Julie says all users in the home will be able to see widgets

00:48:41 ◼   ► installed in the home hub but content in those widgets will only be visible

00:48:45 ◼   ► when the primary linked device is in the home for privacy protection.

00:48:49 ◼   ► I don't know what that means.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Can I set a timer?

00:48:51 ◼   ► Can I see timers?

00:48:52 ◼   ► Right?

00:48:53 ◼   ► When I'm at home information can I turn on on and off lights when

00:48:57 ◼   ► the the the person connected to this device is not there.

00:48:59 ◼   ► Like it's yeah.

00:49:00 ◼   ► I'm gonna be really intrigued to see how it handles a lot of this

00:49:04 ◼   ► stuff.

00:49:04 ◼   ► Well so I think the idea would be the there will be base functionality

00:49:09 ◼   ► that's in the product, including home app essentially and stuff.

00:49:13 ◼   ► And then the widgets were that you choose that are projected from your phone.

00:49:14 ◼   ► So when you go away, those widgets go away, but the base functionality remains.

00:49:23 ◼   ► I think that's the idea.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Well, Julie's saying you we the widgets stay, but you just don't see the

00:49:27 ◼   ► content in those widgets.

00:49:28 ◼   ► Well, yeah, okay.

00:49:29 ◼   ► Fine.

00:49:30 ◼   ► So they don't the widgets get grayed out and they don't update because you're

00:49:33 ◼   ► gone.

00:49:33 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:49:34 ◼   ► I mean, and also it's like I've got to assume you can have more

00:49:37 ◼   ► than one person, right?

00:49:39 ◼   ► And then how does that work?

00:49:41 ◼   ► That's the question.

00:49:42 ◼   ► And well, although we've read I mean that they they may do voice or

00:49:46 ◼   ► face recognition.

00:49:49 ◼   ► Where they're like, oh, it's you, you get your widgets now.

00:49:53 ◼   ► Oh, it's you, you get your widgets now.

00:49:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:55 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:49:56 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:49:57 ◼   ► And also a smart stack will automatically rotate through widgets to show relevant information

00:50:01 ◼   ► throughout the day.

00:50:02 ◼   ► Um so interestingly, right?

00:50:04 ◼   ► A lot of this sounds very watch OS-y, right?

00:50:06 ◼   ► Some of this stuff here.

00:50:07 ◼   ► They got a bit of Mac OS, bit of Watch OS.

00:50:09 ◼   ► But then Felipe Esposito over at Engadget is saying there will be a face

00:50:13 ◼   ► gallery for this device, like we have on the Apple Watch, but it's running

00:50:17 ◼   ► a variant of TV OS.

00:50:18 ◼   ► So it's a bit of everything.

00:50:20 ◼   ► We've got a bit of Mac, we've got a bit of watch, we've got

00:50:22 ◼   ► a bit of TV in this product.

00:50:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:27 ◼   ► Yeah, it's uh right, because it's the it's the like home OS.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Also Felipe Esposito, like me, appears to have retired from Macworld.

00:50:35 ◼   ► That's interesting.

00:50:36 ◼   ► Yes.

00:50:36 ◼   ► Yes.

00:50:37 ◼   ► I think from 9 to 5 to Macworld to Engadget.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I believe was the move there.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:50:43 ◼   ► Well, that's because Macworld retired its uh freelance.

00:50:47 ◼   ► I think is what happened there.

00:50:49 ◼   ► Uh yeah, so you've made the joke and it's just clicked with me.

00:50:53 ◼   ► Yep.

00:50:53 ◼   ► Should we congratulate Felipe on their retirement?

00:50:55 ◼   ► We don't see that on the first man of one of my favorite things.

00:50:58 ◼   ► That was so funny.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Great run, Jason Snell.

00:51:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:01 ◼   ► Put your feet up.

00:51:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I can just, I'm not working on anything anymore.

00:50:59 ◼   ► No, he's done.

00:51:06 ◼   ► Uh in power on this week, Mark Gurman shared some of what he has

00:51:10 ◼   ► been hearing from people at Apple about their experiences with the folding iPhone.

00:51:15 ◼   ► This is a fascinating report from Mark.

00:51:18 ◼   ► Like, because we're waiting for the here's what's coming, right?

00:51:22 ◼   ► Like it's literally.

00:51:24 ◼   ► I mean, there's kind of nothing new in his newsletter.

00:51:28 ◼   ► It's really just how I talked to some people who have used it who

00:51:33 ◼   ► shared their impressions of how it feels to use it.

00:51:38 ◼   ► Which is a fun thing.

00:51:40 ◼   ► Yeah, it's not invalid, but it's just fascinating that it's not like here's what's

00:51:44 ◼   ► coming next.

00:51:44 ◼   ► It's like, hey, I talked to three people who used it and they said

00:51:47 ◼   ► it was really cool.

00:51:48 ◼   ► I still expect the here's what's coming post is just yet to be yet

00:51:51 ◼   ► to be.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Of course.

00:51:53 ◼   ► Well, yeah, I mean, he's already reported most of it, but yeah, he'll he'll

00:51:56 ◼   ► round it back up and that'll that'll happen.

00:51:58 ◼   ► But yeah, he talked to people who use the folding phone, which is great

00:52:00 ◼   ► because the only people who've used it are inside Apple.

00:52:02 ◼   ► So what did they say?

00:52:04 ◼   ► Having spoken to several people have used the upcoming foldable phone, I couldn't be

00:52:08 ◼   ► more excited.

00:52:09 ◼   ► People who have tried the Apple model like how it fits in a pocket,

00:52:12 ◼   ► the feel and durability of the advanced hinge mechanism, and the new iPad like

00:52:17 ◼   ► app layouts that take advantage of the larger internal display.

00:52:21 ◼   ► I'm told the foldable iPhone excels as a camera viewfinder, but there is a

00:52:25 ◼   ► significant omission.

00:52:26 ◼   ► It lacks a telephoto camera.

00:52:28 ◼   ► So I'm excited, but it's still a mixed bag because I'm not excited about

00:52:33 ◼   ► the things that it will lack, but I am I'm excited about the the

00:52:38 ◼   ► possibility.

00:52:39 ◼   ► Like, what is uh I you know, I know what an iPad like app

00:52:42 ◼   ► layout is, but I'm intrigued.

00:52:43 ◼   ► Like, how does it feel to use like in in a phone like this?

00:52:47 ◼   ► Um there's a lot of excitement here.

00:52:49 ◼   ► And and I'm I am happy that Mark is so excited, you know, because

00:52:53 ◼   ► maybe it will mean good things for all of us.

00:52:55 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it's it's it's great because we we know the people.

00:52:58 ◼   ► I mean, I know somebody at Apple who every time there's a new product

00:53:01 ◼   ► announcement, they text me and they're like, I've actually been using this for the

00:53:05 ◼   ► last year and it's great, right?

00:53:06 ◼   ► Like because they can't say, they just can't say.

00:53:09 ◼   ► So I'm sure that Mark has a lot of people like that who who

00:53:12 ◼   ► can't say but said so anyway, because that's he's Mark German.

00:53:17 ◼   ► Speaking of, Mark German also shared that Apple stores are preparing to make some

00:53:23 ◼   ► physical interior changes to prepare for new home product uh displays.

00:53:28 ◼   ► So, like, you know, like um uh uh a display of products.

00:53:32 ◼   ► Saying home and display right now is a little confusing because of the product

00:53:36 ◼   ► I'm about to talk about, but like physical displays in stores that are gonna

00:53:40 ◼   ► be changed.

00:53:41 ◼   ► This is the quote the scale of the retail changes suggests something is coming.

00:53:44 ◼   ► The long anticipated home hub with a display.

00:53:47 ◼   ► The plan modifications appear to be too expensive to solely uh be about routine

00:53:51 ◼   ► updates to existing products, like say like a new home pod mini, uh new

00:53:55 ◼   ► TV.

00:53:55 ◼   ► It's more than that.

00:53:56 ◼   ► And so he believes that what he's hearing from people who are responsible for

00:54:01 ◼   ► dealing with merchandising changes inside of an Apple store.

00:54:05 ◼   ► It's suggesting that this is a significant product launch, which makes me really excited

00:54:10 ◼   ► that it seems like it's all coming together now, that for realsies this time,

00:54:14 ◼   ► we're actually going to get the home pod of a screen this year.

00:54:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:18 ◼   ► Apple home strategy on top of it, right?

00:54:21 ◼   ► And that that's a longer retail changes.

00:54:23 ◼   ► Like, like even if they don't announce it all now, Gurman has said that

00:54:27 ◼   ► a lot of this stuff is coming and that this is a thing that

00:54:29 ◼   ► John Turnus has been especially behind, the idea of pushing more into home products.

00:54:35 ◼   ► And so you've got to have a configuration inside Apple Retail to show off

00:54:40 ◼   ► your home products.

00:54:42 ◼   ► Yep.

00:54:42 ◼   ► Very, very exciting.

00:54:44 ◼   ► Um less exciting.

00:54:46 ◼   ► Mark Girlman is reporting that uh Apple has cut jobs across multiple teams in

00:54:51 ◼   ► the company.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Around two hundred people are impacted by this.

00:54:54 ◼   ► There appear to be three key areas of impact, and I'm doing a lot

00:54:58 ◼   ► of reading today, but I want to read this in full because it was

00:55:00 ◼   ► very confusing to me when I tried to sum it up, so it really

00:55:03 ◼   ► is best for me to just read it.

00:55:05 ◼   ► So the there are three areas.

00:55:07 ◼   ► One of these areas is in the Siri team, and this reshuffling is tied

00:55:11 ◼   ► to an upcoming AI-infused version of the assistant that we know about Siri AI,

00:55:16 ◼   ► which is built on a new technical architecture.

00:55:18 ◼   ► That shift requires a change in the necessary expertise, prompting the company to eliminate

00:55:23 ◼   ► a small number of existing roles, reallocate resources, and create new positions supporting the

00:55:28 ◼   ► updated Siri.

00:55:29 ◼   ► To me, this sounds like people that were as part of old Siri or

00:55:34 ◼   ► people that were in the Apple Intelligence series that were working in a completely

00:55:39 ◼   ► different field that they don't need anymore, they've removed those roles because they're they're

00:55:43 ◼   ► moving on to people who have different understandings and requirements for handling the architecture

00:55:48 ◼   ► that they have rather than the one they thought they were gonna have.

00:55:51 ◼   ► That's the argument is there's a lot of people doing old Siri, yeah, and

00:55:55 ◼   ► now we're in the new Siri era.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Uh also Apple is laying off employees in its intelligence systems experience, a team

00:56:03 ◼   ► within its software engineering organization responsible for some AI features on its devices.

00:56:08 ◼   ► The changes reflect an effort to reorganize work on AI powered capabilities.

00:56:14 ◼   ► As more groups bring AI functions to apps, features, and services, Apple is realigning

00:56:14 ◼   ► teams to match priorities and accelerate development.

00:56:22 ◼   ► This sounds like to me, there were people who were responsible for machine learning

00:56:26 ◼   ► stuff, but now they want every team to be responsible for machine learning.

00:56:30 ◼   ► It does sound a little like that.

00:56:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:32 ◼   ► It's what's interesting about this is this is not a re-org, this is a

00:56:36 ◼   ► layoff.

00:56:37 ◼   ► So the spin is, well, we have to move, you know, the the the

00:56:41 ◼   ► roles are different.

00:56:43 ◼   ► But either that's just the excuse for the layoff, or they just think that

00:56:50 ◼   ► even if they're gonna post jobs, they think that a lot of the people

00:56:53 ◼   ► that they have on are doing jobs that are not appropriate.

00:56:57 ◼   ► And I don't I don't know the difference.

00:56:59 ◼   ► The question is like if you are a person working on this team and

00:57:03 ◼   ► you're told that your job has been eliminated, is your job like eliminated and

00:57:07 ◼   ► goodbye?

00:57:08 ◼   ► Or is it um we also posted a bunch of new jobs we are

00:57:12 ◼   ► you're encouraged to apply?

00:57:14 ◼   ► Because like they didn't it layoffs are not you got transferred to a new

00:57:18 ◼   ► job.

00:57:19 ◼   ► Layoffs are like this skill set is not what we need anymore.

00:57:22 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:57:24 ◼   ► Mark actually got a statement um from someone on Apple who basically says it's

00:57:29 ◼   ► half and half.

00:57:30 ◼   ► So we will create new roles as part of this change.

00:57:33 ◼   ► It will also impact a limited number of existing roles.

00:57:36 ◼   ► So like some people will get new jobs, some people won't, and some of

00:57:40 ◼   ► the jobs that we're laying people off for, those that they just don't exist

00:57:42 ◼   ► anymore.

00:57:43 ◼   ► They don't exist anymore.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:45 ◼   ► Finally, the company is largely shutting down a Vision Pro team focused on gaming

00:57:50 ◼   ► for the headset and reducing the size of a unit responsible for producing the

00:57:54 ◼   ► immersive video content.

00:57:56 ◼   ► The changes are described to employees as an effort to realign priorities based on

00:58:00 ◼   ► how customers are using the device and to better direct resources towards other future

00:57:59 ◼   ► products.

00:58:06 ◼   ► Um and also Mark says that they're essentially going to start relying on outside

00:58:11 ◼   ► companies to make content and make even less of it themselves.

00:58:14 ◼   ► So on the content point, yeah, the the idea here, I think is I

00:58:20 ◼   ► I mean, spending less money on some of this Vision Pro stuff makes sense

00:58:24 ◼   ► because the it's not really a product.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Um they were doing a bunch.

00:58:28 ◼   ► There was a time when all immersive video was coming from Apple.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Um also they you they do can contract with third parties, but they've also

00:58:36 ◼   ► made a bunch of stuff themselves.

00:58:37 ◼   ► I think I think now that the black magic cameras are out there, I

00:58:41 ◼   ► think um maybe it makes sense that Apple doesn't need to kick start that

00:58:45 ◼   ► part that it's already started, and that there are other ways other than employees

00:58:49 ◼   ► to do that.

00:58:50 ◼   ► Even if they take that money and spend it on third parties generating content

00:58:55 ◼   ► uh to a certain degree, they don't necessarily need Apple employees to produce immersive

00:59:02 ◼   ► content.

00:59:02 ◼   ► That that um it's no longer being done with hand built tools that only

00:59:07 ◼   ► are made by Apple.

00:59:09 ◼   ► Blackmagic has a solution now, people are making stuff.

00:59:12 ◼   ► The gaming one, I don't even know what to make of this.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Is there gaming on the Vision?

00:59:18 ◼   ► I mean, I know it works with the Sony hand controllers, and I've got

00:59:21 ◼   ► a couple of games for it, and there are some other games on it.

00:59:23 ◼   ► The way I choose to read this, and I don't know, but the way

00:59:25 ◼   ► I choose to read this is they at the launch there was kind of

00:59:29 ◼   ► this half-hearted effort to do some um some games that were part of Apple

00:59:38 ◼   ► Arcade, and to get some like convinced some game designers to do some games

00:59:43 ◼   ► on the platform, but like it doesn't as long as it's 3500 bucks, none

00:59:47 ◼   ► of it makes any sense, nor do I see lots of examples of the

00:59:53 ◼   ► efforts of the gaming people for the Vision Pro.

00:59:58 ◼   ► So, like, yeah, it's not a path forward.

01:00:02 ◼   ► It's clearly not a path forward.

01:00:04 ◼   ► So I I just I'm surprised it's it that there were people working on

01:00:08 ◼   ► it at all, because there's kind of no story there.

01:00:10 ◼   ► There could have been evangelists, right?

01:00:12 ◼   ► Yeah, could have been people attempting to try and get games to join the

01:00:16 ◼   ► platform and it wasn't working.

01:00:18 ◼   ► It's just not, I mean, until they've got a much more affordable product with

01:00:23 ◼   ► a better story.

01:00:25 ◼   ► Not that you can't play games on the Vision Pro, but it's right now

01:00:28 ◼   ► it is just I mean, there are very few, and there's and you really

01:00:32 ◼   ► have to buy the really have to buy the Sony controllers to even get

01:00:37 ◼   ► there, and like it's just not viable.

01:00:39 ◼   ► It's not gonna be if there's ever an area where it's not gonna be

01:00:42 ◼   ► viable for you know, until they're like they do another product, which they're not

01:00:47 ◼   ► gonna do for years if ever, um it's not gonna be viable.

01:00:52 ◼   ► It's just not a it's not an area that they should be focused on.

01:00:55 ◼   ► So makes sense.

01:00:57 ◼   ► And finally, Mac Rumors is reporting that according to Leika Ice Universe on Weibo,

01:01:02 ◼   ► the 18 Pro Max will exclusively feature a variable aperture lens on the main

01:01:08 ◼   ► camera this year.

01:01:08 ◼   ► There have been talks of variable aperture coming to the Pro Line, and it

01:01:12 ◼   ► may just be on the Pro Max because of it needs a bigger camera

01:01:17 ◼   ► bump or more space inside.

01:01:19 ◼   ► If this is the case, the iPhone lineup comparison chart this year is going

01:01:24 ◼   ► to be unhinged between all the devices and all their different features.

01:01:28 ◼   ► Right?

01:01:29 ◼   ► This one has this and this one has that.

01:01:31 ◼   ► Yep.

01:01:32 ◼   ► This one folds.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Yep.

01:01:33 ◼   ► This one has touch ID.

01:01:29 ◼   ► This one has face ID.

01:01:35 ◼   ► It's gonna be it's gonna be it's gonna be quiet the time.

01:01:38 ◼   ► That's why they have to s hold a couple phones back for next spring,

01:01:42 ◼   ► because it's too comp too complex otherwise.

01:01:44 ◼   ► Too complex.

01:01:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

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01:03:39 ◼   ► It is time for some ask upgrade questions.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Sometimes you just don't know the answer.

01:03:47 ◼   ► You don't know what to do.

01:03:49 ◼   ► Your friends Mike and Jason might have good advice for you.

01:03:55 ◼   ► Just ask upgrade.

01:03:58 ◼   ► And you'll get what you need.

01:04:00 ◼   ► It's ask upgrade.

01:04:03 ◼   ► Beautiful.

01:04:04 ◼   ► Really good.

01:04:05 ◼   ► Live Jingle in.

01:04:07 ◼   ► Lyrics by me.

01:04:08 ◼   ► Lyrics by you.

01:04:09 ◼   ► Well, this time, music by you.

01:04:11 ◼   ► Yeah, performed by me.

01:04:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:12 ◼   ► Music by you.

01:04:13 ◼   ► Leon asks, how long will it take before we see the first John Turner's

01:04:19 ◼   ► product?

01:04:19 ◼   ► And what do you think it's going to be?

01:04:22 ◼   ► It will be in two weeks.

01:04:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:26 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

01:04:27 ◼   ► Like we we can talk about like well who really and what and all

01:04:30 ◼   ► that.

01:04:31 ◼   ► But it's like, first off, he's been doing hard in charge of hardware for

01:04:33 ◼   ► a long time.

01:04:33 ◼   ► They're all Turner's products.

01:04:35 ◼   ► That's the trick.

01:04:36 ◼   ► Right?

01:04:36 ◼   ► And then, and then otherwise it's like, what happens when he's the CEO or

01:04:40 ◼   ► his products?

01:04:41 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

01:04:41 ◼   ► That's just how it is.

01:04:42 ◼   ► What happened?

01:04:43 ◼   ► Well, I think what people are reacting to is like the story was, right,

01:04:48 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch was the first Tim Cook product because it was a

01:04:52 ◼   ► major initiative launched under his time.

01:04:55 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:56 ◼   ► But we the the challenge there is is the folding phone, which he was

01:05:00 ◼   ► a champion of.

01:05:01 ◼   ► But they're like, well, but Tim Cook also, yeah.

01:05:04 ◼   ► But uh the these these designs, these products have many parents.

01:05:09 ◼   ► It's a big organization, and it's a game people sometimes play where they're like,

01:05:13 ◼   ► oh, that was really more of a Steve Jobs thing.

01:05:15 ◼   ► Tim Cook shouldn't take credit for that.

01:05:17 ◼   ► Uh if you're asking more broadly, like what is the definitive, or I mean,

01:05:23 ◼   ► you have to go beyond like a John Turnus product.

01:05:28 ◼   ► It could be the folding phone.

01:05:29 ◼   ► It could be the home products initiative.

01:05:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:34 ◼   ► It could be something else.

01:05:35 ◼   ► I think it's a mixture of that.

01:05:36 ◼   ► I I I I agree with what like I agree with everything you're saying.

01:05:39 ◼   ► And I think it is different to Tim Cook because they will just make

01:05:43 ◼   ► so one of the things that me and Mark Gurman spoke about, we actually

01:05:46 ◼   ► spoke about this in the members segment of the Cortex episode, but I will

01:05:48 ◼   ► spoil it here, even though you know you should consider it.

01:05:51 ◼   ► He was it's stuff that he said before, but we were in a conversational

01:05:54 ◼   ► style.

01:05:55 ◼   ► He was saying, like, the reason you know, it's the thing we know, but

01:05:58 ◼   ► it's happening now because they specifically want the story to be he is the

01:06:04 ◼   ► face of the folding iPhone.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Like they they lined everything up, and and also says, you know, the next

01:06:10 ◼   ► year, he said he is he believes is gonna be like one of the

01:06:13 ◼   ► most exciting times in Apple's history for products.

01:06:16 ◼   ► It's like this has all been lined up to give him the perfect launch

01:06:20 ◼   ► pad as CEO.

01:06:21 ◼   ► And so it will be that, but then also we're gonna I guarantee we're

01:06:25 ◼   ► gonna go wow, Apple's being weird.

01:06:27 ◼   ► Look at all these home products, right?

01:06:29 ◼   ► That will excite us as like they're also releasing a bunch of esoteric interesting

01:06:33 ◼   ► hardware alongside the big blockbuster stuff, right?

01:06:38 ◼   ► We're gonna get new MacBook Pros, we're gonna get the 20th anniversary iPhone next

01:06:42 ◼   ► September.

01:06:42 ◼   ► Like it's all this stuff in the first year as well as maybe they're

01:06:47 ◼   ► gonna do some home sensors and a camera and a home pod of a

01:06:49 ◼   ► screen on it and like the new Apple TV is gonna be weird and

01:06:52 ◼   ► like it's maybe they're gonna do a sound button, you know, like all this

01:06:54 ◼   ► stuff.

01:06:55 ◼   ► So we're gonna everyone's gonna say, look how exciting hardware is now we've got

01:06:59 ◼   ► the hardware CEO.

01:07:00 ◼   ► This is all planned out.

01:07:01 ◼   ► This is what they wanted to do.

01:07:03 ◼   ► So the answer is it's very different to Tim Cook, I think, honestly that

01:07:08 ◼   ► the where we all like oh here we go Tim Cook.

01:07:11 ◼   ► It's the Apple Watch where John Turnus is like everything because he was been

01:07:14 ◼   ► doing it for years.

01:07:16 ◼   ► Patrick asks do you think this is another turn's question.

01:07:19 ◼   ► We're so close by the way like I know it's funny I was thinking

01:07:23 ◼   ► about like oh what can we do for Tim Cook retiring but like it's

01:07:26 ◼   ► gonna happen next week and we're gonna do the draft.

01:07:28 ◼   ► So it's like buy Tim I I guess.

01:07:30 ◼   ► Do you do you think Turnus is walking into a tough compare for future

01:07:34 ◼   ► quarterly earnings with price increases and shifting iPhone schedules could that uh could it

01:07:39 ◼   ► impact his first quarter being down year over year?

01:07:43 ◼   ► I mean anything could happen we don't know because the the price things are

01:07:47 ◼   ► going to change although I will remind you that price increases do tend to

01:07:52 ◼   ► counteract revenue drops by creating more revenue because the price went up.

01:07:57 ◼   ► And they're also going to introduce a really expensive iPhone that I think a

01:08:01 ◼   ► lot of people will buy.

01:08:02 ◼   ► They are I don't know I w I I don't think it might happen.

01:08:07 ◼   ► I I'm not I mean I first off I d I don't know if

01:08:10 ◼   ► I care because I'm not an investor um but I sorry investors I think

01:08:14 ◼   ► that there are some vagaries of this based on the market and how weird

01:08:17 ◼   ► everything is right now and the memory stuff.

01:08:20 ◼   ► I if if everything else was equal, we could have a conversation about it.

01:08:25 ◼   ► But with the price of components and stuff, I feel like we can't even

01:08:28 ◼   ► talk about it.

01:08:28 ◼   ► It's gonna be you know, it's gonna be an interesting ride for him, but

01:08:32 ◼   ► I don't um you know the the downside, I'll tell you this.

01:08:37 ◼   ► The upside of a tough compare is that the next year it's not so

01:08:42 ◼   ► tough a compare.

01:08:43 ◼   ► Yep.

01:08:43 ◼   ► You have a great compare.

01:08:45 ◼   ► And look, the thing is, from their perspective, again, it's like they have a

01:08:49 ◼   ► story to tell, right?

01:08:50 ◼   ► Like if it is down year of year, well, of course it's down year

01:08:53 ◼   ► over year.

01:08:53 ◼   ► Yeah, it's component pricing, 100-year flood, etc.

01:08:56 ◼   ► And we moved iPhones to next year.

01:08:58 ◼   ► You know, they're gonna be able to say that.

01:09:00 ◼   ► We're gonna have, you know, the rest of the i the rest of the

01:09:04 ◼   ► best ever iPhone lineup is gonna ship next year, and then we're gonna have

01:09:07 ◼   ► a great Q1 to or whatever one it ends up being.

01:09:11 ◼   ► So, like they know how to tell this story.

01:09:13 ◼   ► Also, his first results are right, are like what October based on I it's

01:09:24 ◼   ► I mean, I just don't think it's gonna be that big a deal.

01:09:26 ◼   ► No, he's gonna have some iPhone things and then he's gonna have a holiday

01:09:28 ◼   ► quarter.

01:09:29 ◼   ► I think it'll probably be fine.

01:09:30 ◼   ► It'll be fine.

01:09:30 ◼   ► And they've you're right, they have a story if it's not.

01:09:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:33 ◼   ► Uh Mark Rotten said, Can you confirm the status of Apple Script and Automator

01:09:38 ◼   ► in Mac OS 27?

01:09:40 ◼   ► I have some scripts and folder actions that would have been converted to shortcut

01:09:44 ◼   ► workflows and automations if Apple scripts and automator are compromised or feeling like they're

01:09:49 ◼   ► going away.

01:09:50 ◼   ► Uh everything's fine.

01:09:51 ◼   ► Nothing changes, nothing changes.

01:09:53 ◼   ► Automator actions still work.

01:09:55 ◼   ► Um Apple script still works.

01:09:58 ◼   ► Uh shortcuts, adds uh, you know, short scut says some of the shortcuts automation

01:10:05 ◼   ► stuff broke and then got fixed in the betas.

01:10:07 ◼   ► Like, but yeah, it's all just it's all still there.

01:10:10 ◼   ► Nothing, no changes, no changes.

01:10:13 ◼   ► Good stuff, good stuff.

01:10:14 ◼   ► This next question is a little bit of a longer question, but it's interesting.

01:10:14 ◼   ► Comes from Bronce.

01:10:19 ◼   ► With the previous on and off talk through the years of should Apple build

01:10:23 ◼   ► a search engine of their own or not.

01:10:25 ◼   ► It occurs to me now with Siri AI and some of the conversations you

01:10:29 ◼   ► were having last week about doing deals with publishers.

01:10:32 ◼   ► Do you think that Apple could potentially one day replace Google or at the

01:10:36 ◼   ► very least add Siri AI as one of the default Safari search options, similar

01:10:41 ◼   ► to how they have Bing and DuckDuckGo?

01:10:44 ◼   ► Are they building enough plumbing where they could realistically offer their own search engine

01:10:49 ◼   ► everywhere they need it?

01:10:50 ◼   ► They have a search engine already.

01:10:55 ◼   ► As long as they're getting billions of dollars from Google, no.

01:10:59 ◼   ► Yep.

01:11:00 ◼   ► I guess the other thing would be if the world changes in terms of

01:11:05 ◼   ► how people use search engines.

01:11:07 ◼   ► Because if everything in the Safari search box becomes a query that's like an

01:11:14 ◼   ► AI query, then maybe things change and they auto-detect that it's a query and

01:11:19 ◼   ► suggest Siri as a place to do it.

01:11:22 ◼   ► I think what they're assuming is that they're just gonna take a lot that

01:11:26 ◼   ► Siri is just gonna take a lot of questions that used to go in

01:11:30 ◼   ► the search box and they're gonna go to Siri AI instead, and that they

01:11:33 ◼   ► don't need to put it in the context of the web.

01:11:35 ◼   ► Because if you think about it, that makes sense for Google because Google is

01:11:39 ◼   ► a a website, right?

01:11:41 ◼   ► But like for Apple, those questions don't go in your search box in Safari.

01:11:46 ◼   ► They go in Siri in Spotlight in that box.

01:11:51 ◼   ► So they don't need to put it in your web browser.

01:11:53 ◼   ► They're putting it at a higher level.

01:11:54 ◼   ► They're putting it at a system-wide prompt that you can talk or type to.

01:11:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:58 ◼   ► So in that, in that sense, I think it's probably not necessary.

01:12:03 ◼   ► And then also as long as um Google is paying, not a thing that's

01:12:07 ◼   ► going to happen.

01:12:08 ◼   ► But they don't need to.

01:12:09 ◼   ► If if you're asking like because search is becoming AI queries.

01:12:15 ◼   ► That's the thing.

01:12:17 ◼   ► And so my on one level what my answer would be is this has

01:12:20 ◼   ► already happened, but it's not in Safari.

01:12:22 ◼   ► It's at the top level.

01:12:23 ◼   ► On my Mac I have this today.

01:12:24 ◼   ► I do command space and I type a query out and it's going to

01:12:29 ◼   ► ask Apple's cloud services and be processed by an AI thing and it's going

01:12:33 ◼   ► to give me results back.

01:12:34 ◼   ► I have been more and more and more pulling from the dynamic out of

01:12:39 ◼   ► my iPhone and just typing my question into my iPhone rather than going to

01:12:43 ◼   ► Google.

01:12:43 ◼   ► Yeah you don't need Safari for that that that is it's not what Safari

01:12:47 ◼   ► is for.

01:12:48 ◼   ► And sometimes it's like I'm doing something on my phone and I have a

01:12:51 ◼   ► question.

01:12:52 ◼   ► Why would I leave the app that I'm in open safari and Google it

01:12:55 ◼   ► when now I can just I could just ask my iPhone like what from

01:12:59 ◼   ► wherever I am.

01:13:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:01 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:13:02 ◼   ► So I think on that level we're all kind of already there.

01:13:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Like the other day I was I was reading I was reading something that

01:13:10 ◼   ► someone had written me about MP3s and I wanted to I was trying to

01:13:14 ◼   ► date something for myself and I wanted to know when Justin Timberlake's Crimea River

01:13:19 ◼   ► was released.

01:13:20 ◼   ► Because I can see it in my Siri AI has search history and was

01:13:23 ◼   ► able to find out is in November 2002.

01:13:26 ◼   ► But here's the thing that I would like Apple to to to try and

01:13:30 ◼   ► get a bit better at, I don't need to all these conversations saved.

01:13:34 ◼   ► I want them to do a bit of a better job of like if

01:13:36 ◼   ► I ask a question and get an answer and that's the end of it,

01:13:39 ◼   ► it's not a bit of a back and forth, and it's just a one-liner.

01:13:42 ◼   ► You can maybe just get rid of that for me.

01:13:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Um that away.

01:13:47 ◼   ► They have the ability to automatically clear out your Siri AI search history, but

01:13:44 ◼   ► I don't want to do that.

01:13:52 ◼   ► I actually like having some quick queries in there for a long time.

01:13:55 ◼   ► But some stuff I don't need to be kept in uh forever.

01:13:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the the challenge there is that there is this like you

01:14:02 ◼   ► I I uh I want to go back to that answer.

01:14:04 ◼   ► What was that answer?

01:14:05 ◼   ► And so you don't want to immediately discard those.

01:14:08 ◼   ► But you see, something like the question when did Justin Timberlake release Crimea River?

01:14:13 ◼   ► Um I would just ask that again, wouldn't I?

01:14:16 ◼   ► Right?

01:14:16 ◼   ► I think it does.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Although I will also I will I want to give props for this.

01:14:21 ◼   ► The transcription said release crime river.

01:14:25 ◼   ► Ah.

01:14:26 ◼   ► And it worked it out.

01:14:27 ◼   ► It's good, man.

01:14:28 ◼   ► Figured it out.

01:14:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:30 ◼   ► And I got a picture of Justin Timberlake wearing uh a tuxedo uh as

01:14:33 ◼   ► well.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Crime river, what a classic.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Crime river by Justin Timberlake.

01:14:37 ◼   ► This is gonna ruin the world tour.

01:14:40 ◼   ► Uh the final question today comes from Omar who says, Why is changing the

01:14:44 ◼   ► country associated with your Apple ID basically an impossible task?

01:14:48 ◼   ► Does Apple never expect its users to move to another country?

01:14:52 ◼   ► To do this, Apple wants you to cancel all your subscriptions, so you lose

01:14:55 ◼   ► everything you had in Apple TV, music, app store, and spend every cent in

01:14:58 ◼   ► your account.

01:14:59 ◼   ► The current requirements for doing this is basically Apple saying, Yeah, it's best if

01:15:03 ◼   ► you create a new account.

01:15:04 ◼   ► I think the reason for this is pretty simple.

01:15:07 ◼   ► Actually, I think it's twofold.

01:15:09 ◼   ► One half is write steals, right?

01:15:11 ◼   ► And the other half is the infrastructure that the app store was built on

01:15:17 ◼   ► was iTunes, which was also going back to Wright Steals.

01:15:20 ◼   ► And I just think it's just too complicated for them.

01:15:23 ◼   ► Everything's too tied in together, and the motion Picture association and the recording.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:29 ◼   ► One said you can't do this.

01:15:33 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I I think that's Apple, you know, Apple could obviously if this

01:15:37 ◼   ► was a larger problem, but there's only so many people who move countries.

01:15:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:41 ◼   ► They would deal with it.

01:15:42 ◼   ► But instead, the easiest solution is to say make a different account for your

01:15:45 ◼   ► new country.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:46 ◼   ► And I know that stinks, but there are rights issues that are region by

01:15:53 ◼   ► region, and they have to deal with those.

01:15:56 ◼   ► So I know it stinks, but that's I I don't think Amar wanted an

01:16:00 ◼   ► answer here because this feels very much like just a complaint.

01:16:02 ◼   ► And that's fine.

01:16:03 ◼   ► We get a lot of those, I'll be honest.

01:16:05 ◼   ► This one, this one I I thought it was interesting because I I the

01:16:08 ◼   ► answer I have, I think is a funny one, right?

01:16:10 ◼   ► Which is just it's rights deals is the problem.

01:16:12 ◼   ► Well, it is it is.

01:16:13 ◼   ► It is.

01:16:13 ◼   ► You're you're your move, yeah.

01:16:15 ◼   ► Your subscription is being paid in US dollars, let's say, and then you're going

01:16:20 ◼   ► to an EU country where it's going to be in Euro, and like the

01:16:24 ◼   ► subscription price can be different.

01:16:27 ◼   ► The uh vendor may even be different.

01:16:30 ◼   ► It depends on who's selling what in what region.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Like you can't, that's the problem.

01:16:34 ◼   ► I think a lot of people don't change, right?

01:16:38 ◼   ► So they, you know, people move from the US to the UK, they keep

01:16:40 ◼   ► their US app store and they just keep running it.

01:16:43 ◼   ► Um, even when they move, they still kind of retain a small financial history

01:16:50 ◼   ► in the country they're coming from.

01:16:51 ◼   ► Um like we had this with with Adina and like she kept her Romanian

01:16:55 ◼   ► uh account for a long time, and eventually we had to do the very

01:17:00 ◼   ► arduous process of of rebuying all of our apps, re-downloading all of our apps

01:17:04 ◼   ► because she wanted to to kind of get off that.

01:17:06 ◼   ► But it's a bit of a nightmare.

01:17:08 ◼   ► Yep.

01:17:09 ◼   ► If you would like to send us a question of your own, or if

01:17:11 ◼   ► you have any feedback or follow-up, thank you so much.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Go to upgrade feedback.com.

01:17:14 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our members who support us with upgrade plus.

01:17:19 ◼   ► This week we're going to talk about the fact that Jason played Big Walk,

01:17:22 ◼   ► which I am very excited to hear uh his thoughts on.

01:17:24 ◼   ► If you would like longer ad-free versions of the show each and every week,

01:17:28 ◼   ► go to getupgradeplus.com.

01:17:30 ◼   ► Uh you can find us on YouTube by searching for the upgrade podcast.

01:17:34 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors for this week's episode.

01:17:36 ◼   ► That is the fine folk over at Sentry Shipaton from Revenue Cat and Daylight.

01:17:41 ◼   ► But most of all, I want to thank you for listening.

01:17:44 ◼   ► We'll be back next week.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Probably with a draft.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Goodbye, Mike Hurley.