Upgrade

00:00:09 ◼   ► From relay, this is Upgrade episode 632 for August 10th, 2026.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Fitbod, Daylight, and Backblaze.

00:00:20 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley.

00:00:21 ◼   ► I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hi, Mike.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Good to be here.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Summer of fun, you know.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Summer of fun.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Very nice.

00:00:28 ◼   ► This summer has been full of news.

00:00:29 ◼   ► This is this summer reminds me of like the lockdown summers.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Um where there was just so much stuff going on all the time.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Uh, but it well there was some summer of fun because uh, you know,

00:00:41 ◼   ► I was away last week.

00:00:42 ◼   ► It was really nice to have Dan fill in.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Uh I was I was I was really bummed to miss the earnings conversation.

00:00:49 ◼   ► You knew that, and uh I said this to you, but I was I

00:00:52 ◼   ► had that feeling of trying to argue with the uh the episode or like

00:00:56 ◼   ► to be a part of the episode uh while I was listening to it.

00:00:59 ◼   ► You don't get to.

00:01:00 ◼   ► And oh, I guess while we're talking about summer of fun, actually.

00:01:04 ◼   ► Next week's episode, we're going to be recording and releasing on Tuesday.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Right.

00:01:10 ◼   ► It'll be a day late.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Not Monday.

00:01:12 ◼   ► And there's no travel reason to this other than Jason's not here on Monday.

00:01:17 ◼   ► I I'll give you I'll give you the reason.

00:01:18 ◼   ► This is a little bonus uh Snell talk right up at the top.

00:01:22 ◼   ► I will be traveling back from Detroit, Michigan, because one of my other less

00:01:30 ◼   ► popular podcasts is the Magnum Podcast, where David J.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Laura, Philip Michaels, and I watch episodes of Magna PI at random.

00:01:40 ◼   ► And we've been doing that.

00:01:41 ◼   ► That's speaking of the pandemic, that was a kind of our pandemic project, but

00:01:44 ◼   ► we're still doing it.

00:01:45 ◼   ► And it's usually the last home game uh Sunday in August, although they moved

00:01:51 ◼   ► it for reasons.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Uh they there is a thing called Magnum Day at the Detroit Tigers ballpark

00:01:57 ◼   ► where uh there's an entire section of people dressed up in Hawaiian shirts and

00:02:01 ◼   ► Detroit Tiger Cap.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Hats like Thomas Magnum.

00:02:03 ◼   ► And this year, David, Phil, and I are all going Magnum Day at uh

00:02:09 ◼   ► Comerica Park in Detroit.

00:02:11 ◼   ► And we're gonna record an episode while we're there.

00:02:14 ◼   ► Um the three of us have never been in, I don't think David and

00:02:17 ◼   ► Phil have ever been in the same room.

00:02:19 ◼   ► So uh wild scenes, and then we're gonna I think do a meetup with

00:02:24 ◼   ► uh with fans of the podcast afterward, but you know, there's anyway, it's uh

00:02:28 ◼   ► of the of the Magnum podcast.

00:02:30 ◼   ► So um yeah, wild, wild stuff.

00:02:32 ◼   ► So I'm going to go to that, and that's on the Sunday, and then

00:02:35 ◼   ► I'm I'm flying back early Monday morning.

00:02:37 ◼   ► There's no way that we could do the podcast because by the time I

00:02:39 ◼   ► get home, you will be asleep.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Yeah, and so Tuesday, uh one day late.

00:02:43 ◼   ► I look forward to hearing about how that goes for you.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Man, yeah, we see.

00:02:48 ◼   ► I hope I I mean maybe it'll rain.

00:02:50 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:02:50 ◼   ► That would be sad, but we'll still have we'll still have our podcast, pals

00:02:53 ◼   ► and you'll still be dressed as Magnus.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Around PI, so yeah.

00:02:56 ◼   ► I I mean I'm bringing my I I bought a Hawaiian shirt for it.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Good.

00:02:59 ◼   ► So yeah, you know I did.

00:03:01 ◼   ► I have a snow talk question for you.

00:03:03 ◼   ► It comes from Darren who says, I feel like we've heard a lot about

00:03:06 ◼   ► Jason's home over the years, but I don't recall much about his yard.

00:03:10 ◼   ► So there's a bunch of questions you can choose to answer whichever ones you

00:03:13 ◼   ► want.

00:03:13 ◼   ► Is it grassy?

00:03:14 ◼   ► Do you have some kind of exotic California surface?

00:03:17 ◼   ► Is it flat or hilly?

00:03:18 ◼   ► Is there a fence?

00:03:19 ◼   ► Do you have landscaping?

00:03:20 ◼   ► What about trees?

00:03:21 ◼   ► And if we want to make the question more technology focused, what kind of

00:03:24 ◼   ► equipment do you use for yard care?

00:03:26 ◼   ► Is it battery powered or gas-powered?

00:03:28 ◼   ► Oh my, there's a lot of questions here.

00:03:30 ◼   ► I uh live in I live in the flat part of Mill Valley.

00:03:33 ◼   ► My my little teeny tiny house is on a little teeny tiny lot that

00:03:36 ◼   ► is flat.

00:03:36 ◼   ► Our front yard used to be grass, and then it used to be dead

00:03:39 ◼   ► grass, and now it is um not.

00:03:42 ◼   ► It is um there's a gravel path and then there's a bunch of kind

00:03:46 ◼   ► of like um native plants uh that are low water use and some drip

00:03:50 ◼   ► irrigation along with some little trees and a one larger tree that was already

00:03:56 ◼   ► there.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And uh so that's r it's really nice um to not have a lawn

00:04:00 ◼   ► out there and it's uh into instead to have all these other plants and

00:04:02 ◼   ► there's like some citrus trees out there and there's some other flowers and it's

00:04:07 ◼   ► gor beautiful.

00:04:08 ◼   ► Um very happy with how that turned out.

00:04:10 ◼   ► It's lovely.

00:04:10 ◼   ► And the bet and the backyard is uh I have a I have lawn

00:04:14 ◼   ► r just in the backyard, um, a little strip b under the redwood tree

00:04:18 ◼   ► and out to the to the back fence, mostly because I I wanted a

00:04:22 ◼   ► little bit of it because I do on a warm day like going out

00:04:24 ◼   ► there in my little camp chair and sitting in the grass under the tree

00:04:28 ◼   ► and uh working out there.

00:04:30 ◼   ► It's it's a thing I like.

00:04:31 ◼   ► So we we kept that and there's you know, and so there's more water

00:04:34 ◼   ► use back there because we're using the sprinklers.

00:04:36 ◼   ► You know, we have droughts here, so we try to reduce the water use.

00:04:39 ◼   ► I have some electric equipment to take care of it.

00:04:42 ◼   ► I don't have any gas equipment.

00:04:43 ◼   ► My my area of of equipping is so small that that's all that is

00:04:51 ◼   ► required.

00:04:51 ◼   ► It's very tiny.

00:04:52 ◼   ► It's just like I read these reviews of um vacuum cleaners and they're like,

00:04:56 ◼   ► well, you know, that stick vacuum cleaner is nice and all, but there's no

00:04:59 ◼   ► way that the battery is gonna hold out to vi vacuum your entire house.

00:05:03 ◼   ► It's like holds out from my house.

00:05:05 ◼   ► My house is very small.

00:05:06 ◼   ► So my backyard is very small.

00:05:08 ◼   ► So um so yeah, um I guess that's an exotic California service in the

00:05:13 ◼   ► front.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Um flat.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Uh back there's a back fence to my neighbor who I know who's lived

00:05:20 ◼   ► back there about as long as we've lived here.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Um yeah, that's it.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Not uh not too exciting, but yeah, grass in the back and uh and

00:05:27 ◼   ► California uh landscaping in the front.

00:05:31 ◼   ► That's what they call the Mill Valley mullet.

00:05:33 ◼   ► That's that's what that is.

00:05:34 ◼   ► That's it.

00:05:29 ◼   ► That's it.

00:05:36 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question of your own to open

00:05:39 ◼   ► a future episode of the show, uh please go to upgradefeedback.com and send in

00:05:43 ◼   ► your Snowtalk question.

00:05:45 ◼   ► To be clear, the Mill Valley mullet probably is a hot tub in the

00:05:48 ◼   ► back, and we don't have one of those.

00:05:50 ◼   ► Well, there you go.

00:05:50 ◼   ► Aim for it.

00:05:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:52 ◼   ► I have some follow-up.

00:05:53 ◼   ► Joel wrote in and said, update.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Getting the 17 Pro Max to replace my 13 mini has been a great

00:06:00 ◼   ► success.

00:06:01 ◼   ► I had to get a mag safe loop to hold on to, but I'm

00:06:04 ◼   ► not tempted to try and reach for the far edges of the screen anymore.

00:06:08 ◼   ► So good work to Joel.

00:06:09 ◼   ► So last week we had a little mini segment in Ask Upgrade that I

00:06:13 ◼   ► put together.

00:06:14 ◼   ► Do you have a that was all all the 13 mini questions where people

00:06:19 ◼   ► were seeking alternatives?

00:06:22 ◼   ► And one of them that was suggested that was I thought was clever was

00:06:25 ◼   ► what maybe I should just get a Pro Max.

00:06:27 ◼   ► I think Joel suggested this for himself because that will prevent it'll make it

00:06:31 ◼   ► impossible for me.

00:06:32 ◼   ► He was getting like RSI trying to reach across the screen, and now it

00:06:36 ◼   ► it's impossible to do that.

00:06:38 ◼   ► And I I like that kind of like behavioral approach.

00:06:41 ◼   ► And then I had another, I had a big I had my Samsung Galaxy

00:06:44 ◼   ► S-Brain idea.

00:06:45 ◼   ► You did.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Um that as Dan put it, which was maybe you should get a folding

00:06:50 ◼   ► iPhone, um, which I did not advocate for everybody, but I did say it

00:06:57 ◼   ► might work for some people.

00:06:58 ◼   ► Um it won't work for Jasper though.

00:07:00 ◼   ► Can you tell us what Jasper wrote?

00:07:02 ◼   ► Wow, Jasper says I'm an iPhone 13 mini user, and I feel the need

00:07:05 ◼   ► to respond to Jason's iPhone fold idea.

00:07:07 ◼   ► The iPhone the iPhone fold will not just be bigger and harder to use

00:07:11 ◼   ► with one hand when open, it will also be thicker when folded in my

00:07:14 ◼   ► pocket.

00:07:15 ◼   ► I mean does not look appealing to me.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Neither was the iPhone Air when I demoed it at an Apple store recently.

00:07:21 ◼   ► Not sure what I'm gonna do other than put it in a fresh battery

00:07:25 ◼   ► to my mini and hold out as long as I can.

00:07:27 ◼   ► So I wanted to add some context to this.

00:07:29 ◼   ► So the I the iPhone 13 mini is 7.65 millimeters thick.

00:07:36 ◼   ► The Samsung Fold 8 is 9.7 millimeters when folded.

00:07:41 ◼   ► I think that Jasper may be more concerned about this than is go accurate.

00:07:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:47 ◼   ► I don't think you will notice like two millimeters in your pocket.

00:07:53 ◼   ► I d I don't.

00:07:54 ◼   ► I really don't think so.

00:07:55 ◼   ► I think Jasper is more concerned about the thick, the thickness of the two

00:07:59 ◼   ► layers on top of each other than the width.

00:08:03 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:05 ◼   ► It's just different.

00:08:05 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

00:08:06 ◼   ► The the the thickness is there's a two millimeter difference.

00:08:11 ◼   ► Okay.

00:08:11 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:13 ◼   ► Maybe yes, maybe they're saying width instead of thickness.

00:08:15 ◼   ► Is that what you meant?

00:08:16 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:17 ◼   ► This is the point ja the point is Jasper's not satisfied with my answer.

00:08:20 ◼   ► And I think if you have Jasper's attitude, which is this is just not

00:08:23 ◼   ► gonna work, I'm gonna get a new battery.

00:08:25 ◼   ► That's what you should do.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Um and then at some point you're still gonna have to choose.

00:08:29 ◼   ► But and and maybe by then you will be able to try whatever Apple

00:08:34 ◼   ► is offering and find out what is least offensive to you.

00:08:37 ◼   ► But I'm sure like there is no good s answer here.

00:08:39 ◼   ► I do not have a good answer because there is no iPhone mini anymore.

00:08:43 ◼   ► Bottom line.

00:08:44 ◼   ► But I do wonder if the iPhone Air might actually satisfy some people, and

00:08:48 ◼   ► if maybe something like the Pro Max will satisfy some people because it'll just

00:08:52 ◼   ► make them give up and say this is a two-handed phone and kind of

00:08:57 ◼   ► move on, and that that's what it has to be.

00:08:59 ◼   ► But um, but yeah, I I agree.

00:09:02 ◼   ► I think that some people that might actually find that the dimensions of the

00:09:07 ◼   ► folding phone will fulfill satisfy them in a in a weird way, which is

00:09:13 ◼   ► why I thought it was a weird suggestion, but not necessarily a wrong one.

00:09:16 ◼   ► I think is a good suggestion.

00:09:18 ◼   ► Uh we spoke a little bit about um OpenAI's upcoming hardware device.

00:09:23 ◼   ► Mark Gurman has published another report.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Um I've got a few details here.

00:09:28 ◼   ► He says that the device will be shaped like a donut and about the

00:09:31 ◼   ► size of a hockey puck.

00:09:32 ◼   ► It will be positioned by a uh OpenAI as an AI first computer and

00:09:36 ◼   ► will feature moving parts and lights that make it feel alive.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Um indicates that there is more moving parts in this than he was first

00:09:45 ◼   ► uh assuming.

00:09:46 ◼   ► And there was just a line in this article that was just very funny

00:09:49 ◼   ► to me.

00:09:50 ◼   ► The speaker product was designed in collaboration with Johnny Ives Love From Studio.

00:09:55 ◼   ► I've also co-founded a device startup that OpenAI acquired last year.

00:09:59 ◼   ► So if you want the uh keeping arm keeping open AI at an arm's

00:10:04 ◼   ► length from Johnny Ive, this is it, right?

00:10:07 ◼   ► Like I'm still over there, right?

00:10:09 ◼   ► You guys are over here, you know.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Isn't that weird?

00:10:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Isn't that weird?

00:10:13 ◼   ► So it's got they got double Johnny Ive in there.

00:10:14 ◼   ► They got IO and they've got Love From.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Or are they saying, and this is this is a question, or are they

00:10:19 ◼   ► saying that this product maybe predates the pushing together of I.O.

00:10:25 ◼   ► And that this was a a different kind of open AI collab, and therefore

00:10:29 ◼   ► it was always said that Johnny was going to remain at Love From when

00:10:33 ◼   ► this happened, and so maybe their plan was always that like the products would

00:10:38 ◼   ► be a collaboration or could if Johnny was involved, right?

00:10:43 ◼   ► IO moves over to OpenAI.

00:10:44 ◼   ► Johnny continues Love From, they continue to collab together.

00:10:49 ◼   ► But maybe not every device will be a Johnny Ive collab, right?

00:10:54 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:10:54 ◼   ► I am fascinated by this report if only because I'm fascinated by the responses

00:10:59 ◼   ► to this report.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Because like John Gruber wrote a thing where he's like, this isn't a smart

00:11:05 ◼   ► speaker.

00:11:06 ◼   ► This is a friend.

00:11:07 ◼   ► This is a buddy.

00:11:08 ◼   ► It's a droid that you have to carry along with you.

00:11:11 ◼   ► And I mean I looked at it and I thought, oh boy, it's an

00:11:16 ◼   ► Amazon Echo I can carry around with me.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Hooray.

00:11:20 ◼   ► And it has some stuff on it that moves.

00:11:22 ◼   ► So I guess tabletop robot is the wave of the future and Mark German

00:11:26 ◼   ► had it right.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Yeah also I want to point out all of those great designers who Mark

00:11:32 ◼   ► German used as sources now have, you know, many of them now work at

00:11:35 ◼   ► OpenAI so now they're feeding him information from over there instead.

00:11:38 ◼   ► Isn't that nice?

00:11:40 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:11:41 ◼   ► I I look I am a person who is very skeptical about broad adoption

00:11:51 ◼   ► of speech interface for computer use.

00:11:55 ◼   ► I think there are lots of contexts where people are not going to want

00:11:59 ◼   ► to talk to devices.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:01 ◼   ► That that said I also am a believer that having an ambient assistant who

00:12:08 ◼   ► you can call on when you're in a space especially your home to give

00:12:12 ◼   ► you information or act on your requests has some value.

00:12:17 ◼   ► Now, this is a little bit different because it's like supposedly totable, which like

00:12:27 ◼   ► so you've got to make an effort to carry it around, I guess, but

00:12:30 ◼   ► you do get the value out of it.

00:12:32 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:12:32 ◼   ► I I I and they and again, as I said, I think last week,

00:12:38 ◼   ► I also am skeptical of open AI's approach to making it a more conversational

00:12:43 ◼   ► experience because inserting a lot of um silence filling uh-has, and then having like

00:12:50 ◼   ► a sentence that doesn't say anything while the actual queries going on, and then

00:12:54 ◼   ► they fill it in with the actual answer.

00:12:56 ◼   ► So there's like, oh yeah, that's a really good question.

00:12:59 ◼   ► Um, oh, here's my answer, right?

00:13:00 ◼   ► Instead of just ha having a pause.

00:13:03 ◼   ► I find them I find all that trying too hard.

00:13:06 ◼   ► I mean, I I interview people, sometimes people just talk like that.

00:13:09 ◼   ► I know, I know.

00:13:11 ◼   ► I know, but I I find it I I find it trying too hard.

00:13:14 ◼   ► And I I think people should try to not do it.

00:13:16 ◼   ► And and and what the the problem, Mike is uh have you used the

00:13:19 ◼   ► the back and forth live speech thing with it?

00:13:22 ◼   ► I don't like it.

00:13:23 ◼   ► Really?

00:13:23 ◼   ► I don't like it because it's every time, right?

00:13:25 ◼   ► Because it has to fill every time while it's doing its cloud processing and

00:13:28 ◼   ► giving you an answer back.

00:13:29 ◼   ► So every time you go back and forth with this thing, it gives you

00:13:32 ◼   ► a sentence that is content free because it doesn't have an answer for you.

00:13:36 ◼   ► I would prefer more silence.

00:13:37 ◼   ► Yeah, like if I'm talking to a an AI agent, they've become, I feel

00:13:41 ◼   ► like in the last few months, they've become much more keen to just set

00:13:46 ◼   ► like just to show you a spinner, which I'm fine with.

00:13:48 ◼   ► Like I want you to ask, I want you to give me the best

00:13:51 ◼   ► answer you can.

00:13:52 ◼   ► But yeah, the voice modes, they're not gonna be like, please hold, which I

00:13:56 ◼   ► wouldn't mind if they did do that, but I think they don't want that

00:13:59 ◼   ► experience for people.

00:14:01 ◼   ► At some point, the echo would do that, where you'd ask it a question

00:14:05 ◼   ► and you might get a hmm.

00:14:07 ◼   ► Like it's thinking.

00:14:08 ◼   ► Well, Sergeant does it.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Serious does it and it plays a little like sound effect, which I like,

00:14:13 ◼   ► you know, where and and it gives an indication that it's working on things

00:14:17 ◼   ► and it has a spinner.

00:14:18 ◼   ► And I like that rather than it being like, oh yeah, that's a great

00:14:21 ◼   ► question.

00:14:21 ◼   ► Mike, how you been today, by the way?

00:14:23 ◼   ► You know?

00:14:23 ◼   ► How's it going over there in London?

00:14:25 ◼   ► I don't want that.

00:14:26 ◼   ► Anyway, I I while I can roll my eyes at a lot of the

00:14:28 ◼   ► hype that they do, especially with Johnny Ive.

00:14:31 ◼   ► Um, and I think that OpenAI as a company is deeply dysfunctional because they're

00:14:36 ◼   ► doing lots of crazy stuff.

00:14:37 ◼   ► And chasing, like, I mean, just they seem not disciplined and a mess, but

00:14:43 ◼   ► they also have some impressive technology and may end up hitting on something great.

00:14:49 ◼   ► And I mean, Samsung's phone strategy early on was a mess, and then they

00:14:53 ◼   ► found out something important, which was big phones were really good and people like

00:14:56 ◼   ► them.

00:14:57 ◼   ► So, like something very positive could come out of it.

00:14:59 ◼   ► So I'm not gonna say this is gonna be nothing, but I'll also say

00:15:01 ◼   ► that you know, the challenge is you hype out that we're gonna change the

00:15:04 ◼   ► world, and then you've got a little speaker, but we'll see.

00:15:07 ◼   ► That was in the details.

00:15:09 ◼   ► Uh here's some good news.

00:15:10 ◼   ► Apple have raised trade-in values for many products as some devices gaining nearly 30%

00:15:15 ◼   ► increases.

00:15:16 ◼   ► So if you've got a trade-in coming up, they're gonna give you more money

00:15:18 ◼   ► back for it, which I think is great news.

00:15:20 ◼   ► Although I still say Apple's trade-in, they do not give you enough for it.

00:15:24 ◼   ► I think Apple should be trying to beat everyone because they get the most

00:15:28 ◼   ► benefit and it it when they get these products back, but it's not how

00:15:33 ◼   ► it works.

00:15:34 ◼   ► Um and you publish today uh an article, like a news article.

00:15:38 ◼   ► Uh Apple is going to be producing some Friday night baseball games in a

00:15:43 ◼   ► Mersive video.

00:15:44 ◼   ► Yeah, what we thought would happen years ago when the Vision Pro came out

00:15:49 ◼   ► is finally happening.

00:15:50 ◼   ► Apple is going to do um starting at the end of this month.

00:15:54 ◼   ► There are four consecutive Fridays where a baseball game will be live on Vision

00:15:58 ◼   ► Pro, and they're doing it kind of like the NBA, in that there will

00:16:02 ◼   ► be a bespoke announcer team just for the immersive.

00:15:59 ◼   ► It's a different broadcast.

00:16:07 ◼   ► They're not, I think they're not going to have commercials.

00:16:09 ◼   ► I think it's going to be like Sights and Sounds of the Ballpark in

00:16:12 ◼   ► between innings.

00:16:13 ◼   ► And so all very interesting.

00:16:16 ◼   ► And we'll see how it goes.

00:16:18 ◼   ► Unlike the NBA, which was tied to charter cable and the NBA.com app and

00:16:24 ◼   ► all sorts of like complexities about like where you could watch it.

00:16:27 ◼   ► I I watched part of one game and I could never get another game

00:16:30 ◼   ► to play for my from for for my you know sampling.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Um this is all just through Apple.

00:16:35 ◼   ► So if you've got an Apple TV Plus subscription and a Vision Pro, you

00:16:38 ◼   ► can watch these four games in immersive.

00:16:40 ◼   ► And I'm fascinated because I want to know what the creative choices are they're

00:16:46 ◼   ► making, because the basketball court's a lot smaller than a baseball stadium.

00:16:49 ◼   ► And so where are the cameras?

00:16:52 ◼   ► How are they switching between cameras?

00:16:54 ◼   ► Um they said in their release that they're gonna be like um floating graphics

00:16:59 ◼   ► and stuff in the like the graphics will kind of be in the air.

00:17:03 ◼   ► I I don't know.

00:17:04 ◼   ► I I can't wait to see it.

00:17:05 ◼   ► This is all it's all like with everything with the Vision Pro.

00:17:08 ◼   ► This is this is early days.

00:17:10 ◼   ► This is first television broadcast kind of stuff of like figuring out how this

00:17:15 ◼   ► stuff is supposed to work.

00:17:16 ◼   ► So I'm and I love baseball, so I'm looking forward to it.

00:17:19 ◼   ► They're gonna be weekly full games starting on August 28th.

00:17:24 ◼   ► So yeah, I'll be I'll be there's a Giants game, right?

00:17:27 ◼   ► One of them is a Giants game.

00:17:28 ◼   ► There is a two.

00:17:28 ◼   ► There are two Giants games.

00:17:29 ◼   ► There's there's Giants uh there's Giants Dodgers in San Francisco and Giants Dodgers or

00:17:34 ◼   ► no Giants.

00:17:35 ◼   ► Giants Dodgers.

00:17:36 ◼   ► The Giants Padres in San Francisco and Giants Dodgers in LA.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right.

00:17:40 ◼   ► And then they don't they don't have a game the last week of the

00:17:42 ◼   ► season.

00:17:42 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:17:43 ◼   ► Uh the Giants and the Dodgers like long term rivals.

00:17:47 ◼   ► Going back to New York, yeah.

00:17:44 ◼   ► Oh wow.

00:17:50 ◼   ► They were both the National League teams in New York when they were the

00:17:53 ◼   ► New York Giants and the Brooklyn Dodgers.

00:17:54 ◼   ► It goes.

00:17:55 ◼   ► Well, okay.

00:17:55 ◼   ► There's a historic rivalry.

00:17:57 ◼   ► Oh, I love it.

00:17:57 ◼   ► Yes.

00:17:57 ◼   ► So this is what we call a derby game in the UK.

00:18:00 ◼   ► You would call it that, yeah.

00:18:02 ◼   ► The rivalry, except except one of the teams is very, very good and has

00:18:05 ◼   ► won the World Series the last two years.

00:18:07 ◼   ► And the other team is very, very bad.

00:18:09 ◼   ► Let's go, Giants.

00:18:10 ◼   ► Yep.

00:18:11 ◼   ► Always.

00:18:12 ◼   ► Uh Jason was on connected last week.

00:18:14 ◼   ► Um, so you should go listen to that.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Steven stole our format.

00:18:18 ◼   ► So he did.

00:18:18 ◼   ► He still he literally stole questions from Mascot Bad.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And didn't delete them either, which I just thought was really bad practice.

00:18:25 ◼   ► It's like he stole something and didn't close the door behind him and just

00:18:28 ◼   ► made a mess.

00:18:29 ◼   ► So I had to go in and remove them from our feedback system.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:18:32 ◼   ► I expect most of the thieves who rummage through my stuff to clean up

00:18:35 ◼   ► after themselves.

00:18:36 ◼   ► So thanks, Steven.

00:18:37 ◼   ► I mean it they should though.

00:18:39 ◼   ► If they're going to steal from you, they may as well clean up.

00:18:42 ◼   ► It's like it's like somebody broke into your house and used your stuff and

00:18:46 ◼   ► then left.

00:18:47 ◼   ► They didn't take it.

00:18:48 ◼   ► They just used it all.

00:18:49 ◼   ► So it's like there's like empty peanut butter jars and stuff like that.

00:18:51 ◼   ► Okay, that makes sense.

00:18:52 ◼   ► Yes.

00:18:53 ◼   ► Because he consumed it all for a podcast.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:55 ◼   ► No.

00:18:56 ◼   ► But then he didn't clean up after himself either.

00:18:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:58 ◼   ► Did not.

00:18:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Also, I got to experience what it's like to be on connected when you

00:19:02 ◼   ► guys have a surprise for your co-hosts.

00:19:04 ◼   ► Because that that segment just said hold for Steven.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Yeah, hold for Steven.

00:19:08 ◼   ► With nothing in it.

00:19:09 ◼   ► That's what the document says.

00:19:10 ◼   ► When someone has a surprise, it says hope for something.

00:19:13 ◼   ► Or there was one time, I don't remember what this was, where I had

00:19:16 ◼   ► a surprise and I didn't want I really didn't want them to know there

00:19:19 ◼   ► was even a surprise.

00:19:19 ◼   ► So I put a fake I outlined a fake topic.

00:19:22 ◼   ► Oh.

00:19:23 ◼   ► And then just threw that out and and ambushed them with something.

00:19:26 ◼   ► I don't remember.

00:19:29 ◼   ► It may be.

00:19:27 ◼   ► It may have been a quiz or something, yeah.

00:19:31 ◼   ► Who could tell?

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00:21:32 ◼   ► It's time to lawyer up, Jason Snell.

00:21:35 ◼   ► Klunk clunk.

00:21:36 ◼   ► So I have a lawyer up t-shirt.

00:21:38 ◼   ► So we we have uh I'm today I'm wearing my Ruby Roundup t-shirt, but

00:21:41 ◼   ► we also have a lawyer app t-shirt.

00:21:43 ◼   ► They're available uh on our Cotton Bureau store.

00:21:45 ◼   ► And I really like that t-shirt.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Um but sometimes I'm wearing it when I'm outside, and I'm like, what do

00:21:50 ◼   ► people think is happening here?

00:21:51 ◼   ► This is the man walking around with a t-shirt that says lawyer up on

00:21:55 ◼   ► it.

00:21:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:56 ◼   ► That is weird.

00:21:57 ◼   ► So there's been a lot of movement in the last week in the Apple

00:22:00 ◼   ► and OpenAI trade secrets case.

00:22:02 ◼   ► Um I'm gonna try to do my best here to give like a real

00:22:07 ◼   ► high-level view of all of this stuff.

00:22:09 ◼   ► If you want to dig into anything anymore, Jason, please feel free.

00:22:12 ◼   ► Um, but I I don't know how useful it is to try and give

00:22:16 ◼   ► tons of information about what's going on here because it's not really uh I

00:22:21 ◼   ► I I think that everything's gonna change.

00:22:23 ◼   ► Um, but anyway, Apple asked for a preliminary injunction, uh basically saying they would

00:22:28 ◼   ► like to bar two former employees uh and open AI uh open AI and

00:22:33 ◼   ► OpenAI, I should say, from accessing, acquiring, using, or disclosing alleged confidential information as

00:22:39 ◼   ► it moves ahead of its trade secrets case.

00:22:42 ◼   ► Um, and they've also asked for expedited discovery to take place along with depositions

00:22:46 ◼   ► for Tang Tan and Chiang Liu, who we spoke about last time, along with

00:22:51 ◼   ► another OpenAI employee, Yu Tang Yu Ting Piang Peng, and another unnamed employee that

00:22:56 ◼   ► is not named in the soup.

00:22:58 ◼   ► So there are four people that I want to depose.

00:23:01 ◼   ► They have also asked that OpenAI should not be permitted to quote develop, release,

00:23:06 ◼   ► and benefit from products used and developed with the benefit of Apple's trade secrets.

00:23:11 ◼   ► So essentially, my read on this is uh we want to stop them from

00:23:15 ◼   ► releasing any products before they do.

00:23:17 ◼   ► For whatever reason.

00:23:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:19 ◼   ► By the way, you mentioned um Yu Tang Peng, that's Alyssa Peng.

00:23:23 ◼   ► That's um who the person who is alleged to be on the inside at

00:23:27 ◼   ► Apple working with him and getting documents out and then left and then left

00:23:32 ◼   ► to go to OpenAI.

00:23:33 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's who that is.

00:23:35 ◼   ► And then there's somebody else who has not been named in the lawsuit at

00:23:38 ◼   ► all that they they want to also depose, whoever that might be.

00:23:41 ◼   ► Umblished a blog post saying that Apple was quote getting it wrong, that the

00:23:48 ◼   ► preliminary injunction was based on false information and completely unnecessary because we do not

00:23:53 ◼   ► have nor want any of their trade secrets.

00:23:55 ◼   ► In this blog post, which was really weird to just publish a blog post

00:24:01 ◼   ► to try and say that this lawsuit was the was a bad one.

00:24:06 ◼   ► Um they outlined some of the areas that they believe Apple had failed and

00:24:10 ◼   ► shared an export of heavily redacted messages between Chiang Liu and an unnamed Apple

00:24:16 ◼   ► employee.

00:24:17 ◼   ► Maybe this was Alyssa Peng, I don't know, right?

00:24:19 ◼   ► Or somebody else.

00:24:21 ◼   ► Um with these messages, like it's like you can read it, it's formatted like

00:24:25 ◼   ► um an iMessage conversation.

00:24:27 ◼   ► Uh, but they're really hard to read because everything just says redacted Apple information.

00:24:32 ◼   ► Um, but with these messages, they're attempting to highlight Apple's poor security practices, right?

00:24:38 ◼   ► That like allowed a bunch of information to get out, and that Chiang Liu

00:24:42 ◼   ► was trying to give it back.

00:24:44 ◼   ► This is their PR smoke screen trying to appeal to the public that was

00:24:47 ◼   ► nothing like their actual legal response, right?

00:24:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:51 ◼   ► Which is odd.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Um, and as I was reading through, I read all the messages as best

00:24:56 ◼   ► as I could because it's really hard to read because you there's kind of

00:24:59 ◼   ► no information.

00:25:00 ◼   ► And my what I took away from it was I don't s this doesn't

00:25:04 ◼   ► seem to refute the stuff that they were talking about.

00:25:07 ◼   ► This blog post is a mistake.

00:25:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:09 ◼   ► This blog post does not serve anything other than to try and like scream

00:25:12 ◼   ► into the wild that um you know don't listen to them, but it also

00:25:17 ◼   ► muddies everything up, which I guess benefits them in some ways.

00:25:19 ◼   ► My read on this when it came out was this feels like this blog

00:25:25 ◼   ► post was mandated by a high-ranking open AI executive who said, I'm really angry,

00:25:31 ◼   ► we gotta say something.

00:25:32 ◼   ► And so they put this together, but it's I like I don't I think

00:25:37 ◼   ► it's a mistake.

00:25:38 ◼   ► I think it's uh kind of an ego trip.

00:25:40 ◼   ► I think it's them kind of shouting into the into the wind.

00:25:43 ◼   ► And the irony is that their very good law firm was preparing lots of

00:25:48 ◼   ► legal refutations to respond to the suit that I think do a better job,

00:25:54 ◼   ► but I think somebody at OpenAI couldn't help themselves and was like, no, we

00:25:58 ◼   ► and and also consider the path that they've taken here.

00:26:01 ◼   ► First they gave it gave like a one sentence statement, and that wasn't any

00:26:05 ◼   ► good to anybody.

00:26:06 ◼   ► It was like, this is baseless, and we don't needed your trade secrets.

00:26:09 ◼   ► And then they did like a two second sentence statement.

00:26:12 ◼   ► And then that wasn't good enough.

00:26:14 ◼   ► So now there's a a blog post about this.

00:26:17 ◼   ► That is saying a lot of things that it's like, what do you mean

00:26:21 ◼   ► we took your secrets?

00:26:22 ◼   ► Your secrets were just laying there for us to take, which doesn't say you

00:26:26 ◼   ► didn't take them, right?

00:26:27 ◼   ► Like, and and you having unclean data practices is not a defense, I think.

00:26:36 ◼   ► Anyway, they they did finally make a legal defense, which is which is great

00:26:39 ◼   ► because I think the blog post is um dumb.

00:26:42 ◼   ► Yep.

00:26:43 ◼   ► On the Waveform podcast, they they they read this, and I just have to

00:26:46 ◼   ► read it myself because I thought it was just so funny.

00:26:48 ◼   ► So this is just an example of one of the messages.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Awesome.

00:26:51 ◼   ► I was thinking redacted Apple information for redacted Apple information and redacted Apple information

00:26:56 ◼   ► for redacted Apple information.

00:26:58 ◼   ► But since redacted Apple information was pushed back, then it should get redacted Apple

00:27:02 ◼   ► information also.

00:27:03 ◼   ► What's the point?

00:27:04 ◼   ► Like, what are we doing?

00:27:06 ◼   ► Like, and I get you should redact it, right?

00:27:07 ◼   ► But like what are we doing?

00:27:09 ◼   ► Like, is that really gonna do anything for anyone?

00:27:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:11 ◼   ► All of your questions about open AI receiving redacted Apple information are answered by

00:27:16 ◼   ► my redaction of Apple information.

00:27:20 ◼   ► It's like I I also I I don't remember where I heard this.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I'm listening to a lot of podcasts.

00:27:24 ◼   ► Maybe just on the verge cast.

00:27:26 ◼   ► Like this this blog post is uh like an example of a company that

00:27:32 ◼   ► is too online.

00:27:34 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:27:35 ◼   ► They're just like, here's this thing.

00:27:37 ◼   ► Like, there's no there's no context for it.

00:27:39 ◼   ► It's like ah, they're getting it wrong.

00:27:41 ◼   ► Like, what are you doing?

00:27:41 ◼   ► Like, this is yeah.

00:27:43 ◼   ► Don't do this before you've filed the actual legal stuff.

00:27:47 ◼   ► File the legal response first.

00:27:49 ◼   ► There's somebody who who is who lacks the larger perspective who's like, we gotta

00:27:54 ◼   ► get out there with this thing.

00:27:55 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:27:55 ◼   ► And just don't.

00:27:56 ◼   ► And and and I think also, look, open AI's behavior shows a lot of

00:28:02 ◼   ► of a lack of discipline.

00:28:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:05 ◼   ► And this is one of those examples where this blog post, I feel like

00:28:09 ◼   ► if there were disciplined communications professionals who had authority and would be listened to,

00:28:17 ◼   ► they would be like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:28:14 ◼   ► Don't do this.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Yep.

00:28:22 ◼   ► But OpenAI is much more of a naked id running around than it is

00:28:31 ◼   ► a disciplined corporation, especially for a company of its size and value.

00:28:36 ◼   ► And that this is why are we surprised by that.

00:28:38 ◼   ► Honestly, that is that is why Apple's accusations, which seem on their face to

00:28:44 ◼   ► be really kind of wild about what open they allege OpenAI to have done.

00:28:48 ◼   ► That's why I give them more credence than I would otherwise have done, because

00:28:54 ◼   ► I can see a scenario where it's the wild west inside of OpenAI and

00:28:59 ◼   ► they're making questionable decisions and saying, ah, yeah, this is, I mean, one of

00:29:06 ◼   ► their arguments is this is industry standard industry practice.

00:29:09 ◼   ► And like, I have no doubt that they thought that it was fairly standard

00:29:14 ◼   ► industry practice, right?

00:29:15 ◼   ► It doesn't mean it's legal.

00:29:16 ◼   ► Like we don't, we don't know, but like, so I I'm more likely to

00:29:20 ◼   ► believe that open AI might be a little fast and loose with their trade

00:29:24 ◼   ► secrets and they're asking Apple to bring Apple employees to bring in stuff or

00:29:30 ◼   ► planning.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Actually, one of the things that they they said that did make me laugh

00:29:33 ◼   ► a lot, I think this might have been been in the legal case, uh,

00:29:36 ◼   ► the legal filing, was they said, why, yes, our our our guy did take

00:29:42 ◼   ► the entire document of Apple's um employee offboarding procedure.

00:29:47 ◼   ► And because Apple alleges they took that document in order to warn everybody who

00:29:51 ◼   ► was going to get hired by OpenAI about how to avoid all of Apple's

00:29:56 ◼   ► things.

00:29:57 ◼   ► OpenAI's legal brief says something like, we just took that so that we could

00:29:59 ◼   ► remind people of their responsibilities to Apple so they could do the right thing.

00:30:07 ◼   ► And I'm like, sure.

00:30:10 ◼   ► Sure.

00:30:10 ◼   ► We we we we stole that document to remind people not to steal documents.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Come on.

00:30:15 ◼   ► So anyway, I mean it's just I think open AI.

00:30:18 ◼   ► I'm not look, I'm not saying open AI is actually wrong here.

00:30:23 ◼   ► They may well be right, but I'm more inclined to believe that open AI

00:30:27 ◼   ► is kind of a mess and that they make rash decisions that parts of

00:30:32 ◼   ► the organization might not even know about and that they might think are fine,

00:30:35 ◼   ► because as you said, maybe a little too online, maybe a little too valley

00:30:38 ◼   ► culture.

00:30:39 ◼   ► Valley culture, it's like, oh, this is a standard procedure in Silicon Valley, is

00:30:43 ◼   ► not a defense because Silicon Valley does a lot of things standard that are

00:30:48 ◼   ► bad and maybe illegal.

00:30:50 ◼   ► So it's just standard.

00:30:52 ◼   ► I I'm not sure that's the argument that you think it is.

00:30:55 ◼   ► And that's what disappoints me when I see people saying this is just sour

00:30:59 ◼   ► grapes by Apple because it's mad that they're hiring their people.

00:31:02 ◼   ► As I said, like the first time we talked about this when this case

00:31:04 ◼   ► broke, is part of what Apple's doing here, trying to create a chilling effect,

00:31:09 ◼   ► trying to um make it so it's uh more difficult for open AI to

00:31:15 ◼   ► recruit people from Apple.

00:31:16 ◼   ► We're watching you.

00:31:18 ◼   ► Make people at Apple think, oh, I don't know if I want to even

00:31:20 ◼   ► step in on step in it with OpenAI.

00:31:23 ◼   ► Is that part of what Apple's doing here?

00:31:25 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:26 ◼   ► And is it great that California in California, you can't prevent people from taking

00:31:30 ◼   ► their knowledge and their skills to another job?

00:31:34 ◼   ► That is great.

00:31:34 ◼   ► And if, and that aspect of this, I'm against because those people should just

00:31:40 ◼   ► if they can get a better job, more fulfilling job, doing something into AI

00:31:44 ◼   ► when they I understand when they probably just been designing iPhone iterations for the

00:31:48 ◼   ► last 10 years, and now this is going to be more exciting, and they

00:31:50 ◼   ► get to go back and work with Johnny Ive, asterisk, you know, dotted line

00:31:54 ◼   ► to Johnny Ive, whatever it is, and Tang Tan and all of those other

00:31:59 ◼   ► people.

00:31:59 ◼   ► Great.

00:32:00 ◼   ► Like that's I'm willing to stipulate all of that.

00:32:04 ◼   ► However, I do think I'm not satisfied by people saying, oh, that's all this

00:32:10 ◼   ► is.

00:32:11 ◼   ► When what Apple's saying is it's not just that, it's also a plan to

00:32:17 ◼   ► extract information to bootstrap OpenAI's hardware system.

00:32:22 ◼   ► And like, as much as I am a believer in people leaving Apple to

00:32:27 ◼   ► go to OpenAI or wherever else for a better job to ply their trade

00:32:30 ◼   ► and do great work.

00:32:32 ◼   ► I also am a believer that there is a level beyond which trade secret

00:32:40 ◼   ► law suggests you can't go.

00:32:41 ◼   ► Now, maybe trade secret law is so porous and ill-defined, and that Apple has

00:32:45 ◼   ► not done enough to show that these are trade secrets that it will all

00:32:49 ◼   ► fall apart.

00:32:50 ◼   ► It's entirely possible.

00:32:51 ◼   ► But like I refuse to believe that permissive hiring laws in California mean exfiltrating

00:33:00 ◼   ► company secrets is allowed, right?

00:33:02 ◼   ► There's a line there somewhere.

00:33:03 ◼   ► I don't know where that line is.

00:33:04 ◼   ► And a lot of the legal, the Quintamanual filing, um, that's the law firm

00:33:08 ◼   ► that they're using, very good law firm.

00:33:10 ◼   ► Um my sister-in-law used to work there.

00:33:13 ◼   ► Uh high power litigators.

00:33:15 ◼   ► The these are this is serious, this is serious, right?

00:33:17 ◼   ► OpenAI has found a good law firm to represent them.

00:33:20 ◼   ► But a lot of the arguments are sort of like, well, Apple says that

00:33:23 ◼   ► it's a trade secret, but they haven't said what.

00:33:26 ◼   ► And, you know, Apple, I think that's fair because Apple's whole filing is kind

00:33:31 ◼   ► of like we don't even know.

00:33:34 ◼   ► But we found the pipeline.

00:33:29 ◼   ► So we would like to investigate here.

00:33:37 ◼   ► And we'll see where that goes.

00:33:38 ◼   ► But like I'm willing, I think there's a lot of this, like it's just

00:33:42 ◼   ► complicated, but but I have a level of skepticism about OpenAI's practices here that

00:33:46 ◼   ► I think a lot of other people, I'm I'm disappointed that they don't have,

00:33:49 ◼   ► which is like, you know, look beyond Apple having sour grapes about their people

00:33:54 ◼   ► being hired.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Did OpenAI cross a line and create a system where they could remove information?

00:34:01 ◼   ► And was the reason that they did it because OpenAI says, no, no, no,

00:34:04 ◼   ► we don't want their trade secrets.

00:34:05 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:34:06 ◼   ► Were there people who felt the pressure to build hardware at OpenAI who are

00:34:10 ◼   ► like, God, it would be really good if we had that documentation from back

00:34:14 ◼   ► when I was at Apple?

00:34:15 ◼   ► Or in the most to me, damning individual item, the the claim that they

00:34:21 ◼   ► represented themselves as having Apple's authorization by going to a supplier for some sort

00:34:26 ◼   ► of metal related finishing thing.

00:34:29 ◼   ► Because again, that is just these are red flags to say they're trying to

00:34:33 ◼   ► grab stuff because they want stuff at Apple that they know is there that

00:34:36 ◼   ► would help them do their jobs.

00:34:37 ◼   ► And like that's the limitation here, I think, if they're trade secrets.

00:34:41 ◼   ► Like, let's just think of this like from a from like a very kind

00:34:44 ◼   ► of like simple first principle of this company level, right?

00:34:50 ◼   ► Open AI or Chat GPT was built upon the whole scale theft of content

00:34:57 ◼   ► on the internet.

00:34:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:59 ◼   ► Do I believe that this company may want people to download thousands of documents

00:35:05 ◼   ► to feed into a model to help them build their products?

00:35:09 ◼   ► Yes, I do.

00:35:10 ◼   ► Like I of course just a very simple level, I believe that this is

00:35:15 ◼   ► very probable because I do not believe that the leadership of this organization cares

00:35:22 ◼   ► about this kind of like ownership of information, because their entire foundation is built

00:35:29 ◼   ► upon this like whole-scale theft of everything that's on the internet, taken without people's

00:35:33 ◼   ► consent and used in ways that were not uh that were and used against

00:35:38 ◼   ► the consent of people who would have otherwise given a different uh answer if

00:35:42 ◼   ► they were asked.

00:35:44 ◼   ► And then they have continued since the point that this lawsuit came out to

00:35:50 ◼   ► kind of show who they are, of like these like wild swings and like

00:35:55 ◼   ► just not seeming very like put together does not fill me with confidence that

00:36:00 ◼   ► everybody knows exactly what is happening all the time inside of this organization.

00:36:04 ◼   ► The whole culture is move for move fast, break things, ask permission later after

00:36:10 ◼   ► you've already done it.

00:36:11 ◼   ► Like taking like like taking all the information on the internet and using it

00:36:14 ◼   ► to build your model that gives you an enormous, you know, enormous valuation built

00:36:19 ◼   ► on the backs of all the content that wasn't really yours to begin with.

00:36:22 ◼   ► Um, and and so when they say, look, that that legal filing is very

00:36:28 ◼   ► much like show us the trade secrets, which on one level, from a legal

00:36:34 ◼   ► perspective, I think is actually a very powerful argument.

00:36:36 ◼   ► Because it's that it's them saying, look, this is very specifically under trade secret

00:36:41 ◼   ► law, which is tricky.

00:36:42 ◼   ► Trade secrets have to be very specific and specifically established, and we are going

00:36:47 ◼   ► to question whether what Apple is making trouble about here and accusing us of

00:36:52 ◼   ► is actually a trade secret.

00:36:55 ◼   ► I could also take the other side, I mean, and both of these things

00:36:58 ◼   ► are true, by the way, both of these things are true.

00:37:00 ◼   ► The other side is that what they're really arguing is hey, so we stole

00:37:07 ◼   ► a bunch of documents from Apple.

00:37:09 ◼   ► Are they, if they're not trade secrets, what you gonna do about it?

00:37:13 ◼   ► Right?

00:37:13 ◼   ► I mean, that's kind of the argument that Quinn Emanuel's filing makes is this

00:37:18 ◼   ► is all, I mean, it's that classic standard industry practice.

00:37:20 ◼   ► It's like people bring stuff, Apple, and then there's the sophistry of like, oh,

00:37:24 ◼   ► and Apple failed to secure their cloud storage, which is like, okay.

00:37:29 ◼   ► I mean, if I forget to lock the safe and you come in and

00:37:32 ◼   ► steal all the stuff out of the city.

00:37:35 ◼   ► I mean, it can't be it can't be a crime then, which is no,

00:37:37 ◼   ► it's still a good thing.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Stephen's stealing the Snelltalk questions, really.

00:37:41 ◼   ► It is, it is just like Stephen Hackett.

00:37:43 ◼   ► He is, he should just go work at OpenAI.

00:37:47 ◼   ► There is a pattern of behavior here.

00:37:49 ◼   ► Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna wake up one day and the relay CMS is

00:37:51 ◼   ► gonna be blanked and all our Google Docs are gonna be empty and Steven's

00:37:54 ◼   ► gonna be gone.

00:37:55 ◼   ► And OpenAI will be publishing loads of podcasts, and we'll be like, oh, now

00:37:58 ◼   ► we know that.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Yeah, so that that's that's my issue with it is I I am fascinated

00:38:03 ◼   ► by the fact that they're making a technical legal argument while not really denying

00:38:07 ◼   ► the idea that um that exfiltrating documents, like because to me that's the the

00:38:13 ◼   ► core of this is it was there a conspiracy to move lots of important

00:38:17 ◼   ► valuable documents outside of Apple?

00:38:19 ◼   ► And I wonder what's the legality of that, and is it gonna be ultimately

00:38:24 ◼   ► because what what Apple's trying to do is pin this on open AI and

00:38:27 ◼   ► make open AI stop.

00:38:28 ◼   ► And I wonder if in the end, where we may end up is that

00:38:31 ◼   ► they can't prove that open AI as an organization did this, but they are

00:38:35 ◼   ► gonna be able to hang a bunch of former Apple employees out to dry

00:38:39 ◼   ► for personal behavior instead of it being to proving that it's sort of a

00:38:44 ◼   ► systematic thing.

00:38:45 ◼   ► Although the argument that it goes to Tang Tan, who is in charge, he

00:38:44 ◼   ► basically speaks for OpenAI.

00:38:52 ◼   ► So I don't know, but it's just very funny that that's the argument.

00:38:54 ◼   ► Is like, yeah, well, I mean, we took a bunch of stuff, but like,

00:38:57 ◼   ► was it a trade secret?

00:38:58 ◼   ► Yeah, let's say, like, even in a scenario though, where they just hang this

00:39:00 ◼   ► on, let's imagine they hang it on Tang Tan.

00:39:03 ◼   ► It still brings the products into question, though, right?

00:39:06 ◼   ► Like, if if they're able to say that even if it was one lone

00:39:10 ◼   ► individual acting against our wishes, like he's still the head of the hardware, and

00:39:14 ◼   ► so any hardware was built on the back of trade secret.

00:39:17 ◼   ► I have to believe that, and this is where I I think I maybe

00:39:21 ◼   ► side with some of the people who are skeptical about Apple here.

00:39:24 ◼   ► It's when I think of what do you want us to do?

00:39:29 ◼   ► Like, what do you want a court to do if it finds that this

00:39:33 ◼   ► happened?

00:39:34 ◼   ► And I have a hard time imagining that in the end open AI, a

00:39:40 ◼   ► court is gonna open order open AI to forego certain methods of hardware development

00:39:49 ◼   ► or pathways of production for their hardware.

00:39:55 ◼   ► In the end, I I'm really skeptical.

00:39:58 ◼   ► I I I know we've talked about this a lot.

00:40:00 ◼   ► I'm generally skeptical uh that US courts are ever gonna basically say to some

00:40:05 ◼   ► corporation, um, make your products a different way.

00:40:08 ◼   ► Like that that that it happens, but it doesn't happen that often.

00:40:11 ◼   ► And and so that makes me think that in the end, what does Apple

00:40:14 ◼   ► want here?

00:40:15 ◼   ► They want the chilling effect.

00:40:17 ◼   ► They want a little revenge.

00:40:18 ◼   ► They want to embarrass Open AI, and they want to slow them down.

00:40:21 ◼   ► And I think that's probably true that Apple views them as a an increasingly

00:40:26 ◼   ► dangerous enemy because they, in their view, have sort of stolen their team and

00:40:29 ◼   ► their knowledge, which, you know, boo hoo on a certain level.

00:40:35 ◼   ► But on another level, like, so then you use you you you catch them

00:40:39 ◼   ► in what you think is questionable behavior and you use that to maybe rein

00:40:44 ◼   ► them in, maybe stop the flow, and also maybe slow them down and burden

00:40:47 ◼   ► them at a time when they want because the th this is the other

00:40:51 ◼   ► thing is if they're moving fast and they're trying to do all this stuff,

00:40:55 ◼   ► and it's and and my theory is really a lot of it is about

00:40:57 ◼   ► expediency.

00:40:58 ◼   ► These people feel under immense pressure to ship products quickly, and maybe they cut

00:41:03 ◼   ► some corners, then one of the ways that Apple fights back is by slowing

00:41:08 ◼   ► it all down, throwing sand in the gears with uh all of these legal

00:41:13 ◼   ► issues.

00:41:13 ◼   ► Because in the end, I I'm really dubious that open AI is going to

00:41:18 ◼   ► be precluded from releasing products it wants to release.

00:41:21 ◼   ► I think it's just far more likely that it's gonna be slowed down, maybe

00:41:26 ◼   ► maybe they'll have to change some things, maybe they'll have to pay some money

00:41:29 ◼   ► to Apple, maybe you know, I I don't know, maybe some of these other

00:41:33 ◼   ► employees will have be in some legal trouble.

00:41:35 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:41:36 ◼   ► And and so on that level, I do think that there's some truth in

00:41:39 ◼   ► it.

00:41:39 ◼   ► That I think if I had to rank them, I would say one is

00:41:43 ◼   ► probably one is probably the chilling effect.

00:41:47 ◼   ► Number one motivation of Apple is probably let's make everybody think twice about going

00:41:53 ◼   ► to open AI.

00:41:54 ◼   ► Well, and and also chilling to other AI companies, right?

00:41:58 ◼   ► Like don't you all think you can start doing this, right?

00:42:01 ◼   ► Like they they probably want to do that.

00:42:03 ◼   ► It's like a little refresher about taking our documents.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Don't.

00:42:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:06 ◼   ► And if you're gonna take our people, we can't stop you, but you you

00:42:09 ◼   ► don't you can't take our documents.

00:42:11 ◼   ► Two, I would say, in the in the hierarchy of motivations here for Apple

00:42:15 ◼   ► is revenge.

00:42:16 ◼   ► I I really is lashing out.

00:42:14 ◼   ► I think it's I think it's a classic Steve Jobs kind of thing.

00:42:20 ◼   ► It's it's you hurt us, we're gonna hurt you.

00:42:23 ◼   ► I I I think that's part of it.

00:42:25 ◼   ► I I just I can't it it's part of it.

00:42:27 ◼   ► And then three is maybe we slow them down a little.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:31 ◼   ► Which is like part of two, right?

00:42:33 ◼   ► Like I mean obviously No two two is not principled.

00:42:38 ◼   ► Two is I mean or it's entirely principled.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Three it's strategic.

00:42:41 ◼   ► It's like well this will slow them down.

00:42:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:43 ◼   ► Because they're gonna have to pay the price because the that's the idea is

00:42:46 ◼   ► they're they they they misbehaved a little and this is gonna offset their advantage

00:42:51 ◼   ► a little bit and that's right.

00:42:52 ◼   ► Two is um these guys are jerks and we want to make them hurt.

00:42:56 ◼   ► I think they're a little different.

00:42:58 ◼   ► But and and I I do think that's part of it.

00:42:59 ◼   ► And they see them as a threat, right?

00:43:01 ◼   ► They obviously see them as a threat.

00:43:02 ◼   ► Like in one way or another.

00:43:03 ◼   ► They're either a threat because they can compete with us or a threat because

00:43:06 ◼   ► they're taking our people right and it's like that is threatening.

00:43:09 ◼   ► I don't know how you lose hundreds of people who are your experts at

00:43:12 ◼   ► hardware design and not think that they're gonna threaten the iPhone.

00:43:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:16 ◼   ► Uh while we're on this into lawyer up there's not really much to say

00:43:19 ◼   ► on the on this right now but Apple has filed a legal complaint in

00:43:22 ◼   ► the UK against the government's request to get backdoor access to encrypted user data

00:43:27 ◼   ► in the advanced data protection system again.

00:43:30 ◼   ► So this is this happened a while back um and then advanced data protection

00:43:36 ◼   ► got kind of turned off from new sign ups um in the UK because

00:43:40 ◼   ► the government wanted a backdoor then the US government got real mad uh because

00:43:46 ◼   ► they were like, How dare you want information about our citizens?

00:43:49 ◼   ► And so the UK was like, We're sorry, big brother, we'll we won't do

00:43:52 ◼   ► that anymore.

00:43:53 ◼   ► Uh and then a few months later refiled it, requesting access to everyone except

00:43:56 ◼   ► Americans data.

00:43:58 ◼   ► Thanks.

00:43:58 ◼   ► Uh, and then so the problem with talking about this is that the what

00:44:07 ◼   ► the government is asking for, what Apple can provide, and the court proceedings where

00:44:13 ◼   ► Apple is saying, like is filing to say we don't want to do this

00:44:18 ◼   ► is all purposely secret.

00:44:20 ◼   ► Like, and no one's allowed to talk about it.

00:44:22 ◼   ► So we don't really know what's going on other than the fact that something

00:44:25 ◼   ► is going on.

00:44:26 ◼   ► But at least this time, Apple have said they've they've mounted a legal challenge.

00:44:31 ◼   ► So I don't really know what to think about all this, and I'm very

00:44:34 ◼   ► disappointed uh in it all to be honest.

00:44:37 ◼   ► But and and I'm also personally very annoyed because I turned off advanced data

00:44:41 ◼   ► protection because they said I would that everyone will be offboarded, and then that

00:44:44 ◼   ► didn't happen, and now I can't turn it back on again.

00:44:47 ◼   ► That's right.

00:44:48 ◼   ► So bummer for me.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:52 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Daylight.

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00:46:30 ◼   ► Room around up time.

00:46:33 ◼   ► In his power on newsletter this week, Mark German shared some considerations that Apple

00:46:38 ◼   ► is making on the future of the Apple Watch.

00:46:41 ◼   ► He starts by saying the main change coming this year is a new processor

00:46:46 ◼   ► with increased performance for the uh Apple Watch series 12 and Ultra 4.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Be 12, right?

00:46:53 ◼   ► The 11 right now.

00:46:54 ◼   ► Twelve is this year's one.

00:46:57 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Let's just say that.

00:46:59 ◼   ► It doesn't matter.

00:46:59 ◼   ► This is this is not the one I have and the one that yeah,

00:47:02 ◼   ► 1200.

00:47:02 ◼   ► The 2026 Apple Watch, of course.

00:47:04 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Apple Watch 27.

00:47:07 ◼   ► He says that a ceramic case may return for the series line in the

00:47:11 ◼   ► next year or two, which has me very excited.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:47:15 ◼   ► It's the only truly good looking Apple Watch was the Apple Watch Series 3,

00:47:19 ◼   ► White Ceramic.

00:47:21 ◼   ► Oh, baby.

00:47:21 ◼   ► I'll be very happy.

00:47:23 ◼   ► I will move away from the Ultra back to the series line if they

00:47:26 ◼   ► bring out a ceramic watch again.

00:47:28 ◼   ► Oh man.

00:47:29 ◼   ► Uh Mark says that the Apple Watch is currently being considered with multiple avenues

00:47:29 ◼   ► of future for the product.

00:47:37 ◼   ► So things like a version with no display, quote, different types of screens.

00:47:43 ◼   ► I don't know what that means.

00:47:44 ◼   ► New sizes, round screens have been considered, but less likely.

00:47:49 ◼   ► More premium models beyond Hermes and Ultra and more affordable ones too.

00:47:55 ◼   ► Basically, it feels like everything is on the table, which makes me feel like

00:48:00 ◼   ► leadership shakeup has happened, right?

00:48:03 ◼   ► In the Apple Watch team.

00:48:04 ◼   ► Leadership has changed all over the place, right?

00:48:07 ◼   ► This feels like a, hey, who's got an idea?

00:48:11 ◼   ► Because this thing needs some work, is how this feels to me.

00:48:14 ◼   ► If they're like, all of this stuff is on the table.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Wasn't this Jeff Williams baby for a long time?

00:48:19 ◼   ► It was, yep.

00:48:20 ◼   ► And he retired.

00:48:21 ◼   ► And now we got John Turnus as CEO.

00:48:24 ◼   ► And then there's been the health changes, which obviously leads in, right?

00:48:26 ◼   ► Like you've got to imagine health and Apple Watcher.

00:48:29 ◼   ► Eddie Q, right?

00:48:30 ◼   ► Is in charge of uh health stuff.

00:48:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:33 ◼   ► Let me jump ahead real quick because there's a fascinating quote about Eddie Q.

00:48:37 ◼   ► So apparently Apple are feeling the pressure on wearables with an increase in options

00:48:41 ◼   ► from competition.

00:48:42 ◼   ► Smart rings and fitness bands.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Talk about that in a minute.

00:48:44 ◼   ► This is a direct quote from the Bloomberg article.

00:48:46 ◼   ► It has ambitious long-term plans to overhaul its health app under the leadership of

00:48:51 ◼   ► Eddie Q, who took over the responsibilities last year.

00:48:54 ◼   ► He's known as an avid fan of Whoop and Ura Rings and is looking

00:48:58 ◼   ► to better respond to shifting cust consumer tastes and the growth of AI-powered health

00:49:03 ◼   ► and wellness.

00:49:04 ◼   ► Is he known as an avid fan of these competitive products?

00:49:08 ◼   ► I I didn't know this about according to Mark Griman, he is.

00:49:11 ◼   ► I mean, so what is Eddie wearing a whoop band as well as, or

00:49:14 ◼   ► instead of an Apple Watch?

00:49:14 ◼   ► I mean, what wouldn't be the worst thing?

00:49:18 ◼   ► People at Apple should probably be understanding the competition.

00:49:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I hope he is, because they could learn some things, like a version

00:49:25 ◼   ► of the Apple Watch with no display, which would make me so happy.

00:49:29 ◼   ► I would love this.

00:49:31 ◼   ► I I think this is one of those areas where maybe Apple has suffered

00:49:37 ◼   ► from the idea that uh everything like the the original Apple Watch conception was

00:49:45 ◼   ► very much like it's like an iPhone on your wrist and it's gonna have

00:49:48 ◼   ► apps and all those things.

00:49:50 ◼   ► And I think the problem with that is that you end up in this

00:49:53 ◼   ► scenario where everything looks like it needs to be an Apple or an iPhone

00:49:57 ◼   ► on your wrist.

00:49:58 ◼   ► And the Apple Watch is not allowed to be, or or the product category

00:50:04 ◼   ► is not allowed to be more varied than that.

00:50:06 ◼   ► And this is the thing that I know you and I have hammered on

00:50:08 ◼   ► a lot, and I like my Apple Watch and all, but like if Apple

00:50:11 ◼   ► Health is important and the health sensors are important, why are you making everybody

00:50:16 ◼   ► wear a full-on Apple Watch on their wrist?

00:50:18 ◼   ► Why would you not want to note that people have wanted other kinds of

00:50:24 ◼   ► wearables to do health stuff that aren't a watch for ages now?

00:50:29 ◼   ► And I I get the sense there have not been, let's put it this

00:50:33 ◼   ► way, there have not been a lot of reports that Apple has tried those

00:50:36 ◼   ► things and decided that they weren't weren't worth releasing.

00:50:40 ◼   ► That that I've never seen a report that said, you know, Apple did a

00:50:43 ◼   ► band uh essentially an Apple Watch without a without a screen or without a

00:50:47 ◼   ► the full-on Apple screen, and um they shelved it, they decided it wasn't good

00:50:52 ◼   ► enough or that it I I've never seen a report like that.

00:50:55 ◼   ► No.

00:50:55 ◼   ► I feel like it became dogma that they're just gonna do the Apple Watch.

00:51:00 ◼   ► That's their that's their health solution.

00:51:01 ◼   ► We make computers.

00:51:02 ◼   ► That's what we make.

00:50:59 ◼   ► No, yeah, no better solution exists.

00:51:05 ◼   ► And like the the only the closest they've come is putting temperature sensors sensors

00:51:10 ◼   ► in the AirPods, right?

00:51:12 ◼   ► And like, okay, that's fine, but it has a heart rate sensor now too,

00:51:17 ◼   ► right?

00:51:17 ◼   ► The AirPods.

00:51:18 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

00:51:19 ◼   ► Sorry, temperature and and heart rate.

00:51:21 ◼   ► Um, I don't understand this.

00:51:24 ◼   ► I don't understand why you wouldn't say we we've done so much for with

00:51:30 ◼   ► miniaturization, and Apple Health is so important that we're gonna be able to build

00:51:34 ◼   ► other products that will give us important information about you that will serve you

00:51:39 ◼   ► in addition to the Apple Watch or instead of the Apple Watch, because not

00:51:44 ◼   ► I mean, not everybody wants to wear an Apple Watch.

00:51:46 ◼   ► That's the bottom line, is not everybody does.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Some people have other watch preferences.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Well, how do you reach them?

00:51:52 ◼   ► And Apple's like, we don't, because they should be wearing an Apple Watch.

00:51:56 ◼   ► It's like, well, or you could also make a product using your incredible hardware

00:52:01 ◼   ► skills and the everything that you built over the Apple over the more than

00:52:04 ◼   ► decade with the Apple Watch to build something that is low profile, has no

00:52:09 ◼   ► screen, or has a a teeny tiny thing that is basically not a screen,

00:52:14 ◼   ► so that it doesn't scan as a watch, so they can wear that and

00:52:18 ◼   ► not wear a watch or wear that in addition to a watch.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Why not?

00:52:21 ◼   ► And as for the ring thing, I mean, I don't know if you look

00:52:24 ◼   ► at Aura, if Apple is actually envious of that business, or if it thinks

00:52:29 ◼   ► that that business is exactly the kind of niche hardware business that it doesn't

00:52:33 ◼   ► want to be in, which is a smart ring.

00:52:35 ◼   ► But again, I don't recall the stories where Apple has really looked in it

00:52:41 ◼   ► and looked into it and seriously considered it and thought that they shouldn't do

00:52:44 ◼   ► it, which is what they should decide.

00:52:44 ◼   ► Like they should decide whether it they should make a ring or not.

00:52:49 ◼   ► Not what I feel like the vibe that I get from Apple is, which

00:52:53 ◼   ► is Apple Watch or nothing, which I think is foolish.

00:52:56 ◼   ► So if they're rethinking all of these things, that's great.

00:52:59 ◼   ► I don't think you need to throw the Apple Watch out.

00:53:01 ◼   ► I think the Apple Watch is great.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Like it's it's a perennial.

00:53:03 ◼   ► Keep it around.

00:53:04 ◼   ► I love mine.

00:53:05 ◼   ► But boy, there are other options here.

00:53:08 ◼   ► If you really care about health and not the Apple Watch, you say you

00:53:11 ◼   ► care about health and not just the Apple Watch.

00:53:13 ◼   ► Maybe some other health products.

00:53:16 ◼   ► I I feel like there's something going on where somebody got really mad about

00:53:19 ◼   ► wearables home and accessories, right?

00:53:22 ◼   ► Because it feels to me like this whole category is now in a place

00:53:27 ◼   ► where there's a bunch of new stuff coming or potentially coming, where they looked

00:53:31 ◼   ► at the wearables home and accessories category and said, this is completely stagnant.

00:53:34 ◼   ► Because there's home stuff.

00:53:36 ◼   ► And even there's like AirPods, the experiments with like, are we gonna put cameras

00:53:40 ◼   ► in there and things like that?

00:53:42 ◼   ► And the and the uh and the glasses, are they gonna do those?

00:53:45 ◼   ► And now also this question about the Apple Watch.

00:53:48 ◼   ► It feels like that that maybe that was a category that really, like you

00:53:51 ◼   ► said, had a real was drift without a lot of leadership and a lot

00:53:56 ◼   ► of uh vision, and maybe now it's got more a vision or it's trying

00:54:00 ◼   ► to find one, which is good news.

00:54:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I would love just to have a fitness ban from them

00:54:06 ◼   ► that has all of the senses, right?

00:54:08 ◼   ► So like it's it does all the health tracking stuff, but also has full

00:54:12 ◼   ► detection, car crash detection, like those kinds of things.

00:54:16 ◼   ► Sure.

00:54:16 ◼   ► But just none of the things that I need a screen for.

00:54:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:54:20 ◼   ► Like I don't want apps.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Um, I I don't need it to tell me the time.

00:54:24 ◼   ► I because I want to wear a regular watch.

00:54:27 ◼   ► I wouldn't mind if maybe it had a tactic motor and it could just

00:54:31 ◼   ► alert me for specific notifications I really care about, just like it's tapping you,

00:54:37 ◼   ► so you should look at your phone now.

00:54:38 ◼   ► I can make a I can make a pitch here too, which is once

00:54:42 ◼   ► you've got um airpods, like I mean, but you'd have your phone with you

00:54:48 ◼   ► anyway.

00:54:48 ◼   ► You got your phone with you.

00:54:49 ◼   ► You use AirPods, it's talking, it's talking to your phone, it'll alert you, your

00:54:52 ◼   ► phone will alert you.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Yeah, it it's just it doesn't need to you don't need to have a

00:54:56 ◼   ► full-on watch to have a health experience like that.

00:54:59 ◼   ► I would also say I would love um the option to wear a band

00:55:06 ◼   ► for sleep tracking, because I'm not I don't like I decided I don't like

00:55:09 ◼   ► wearing my watch uh at night, it's too much.

00:55:13 ◼   ► But I'd I'd wear a band.

00:55:15 ◼   ► And then you could do stuff like you could set like an alarm and

00:55:18 ◼   ► have the band tap you awake, but it would be much smaller, and I

00:55:22 ◼   ► could have my Apple Watch charging overnight and wear the band to sleep and

00:55:28 ◼   ► then swap them in the morning.

00:55:29 ◼   ► Like I could I think that yeah, I I don't I don't understand why

00:55:34 ◼   ► Apple looked at this and said we're gonna do one product and it's never

00:55:38 ◼   ► gonna change and there will be never there will never be anything else in

00:55:41 ◼   ► this category.

00:55:42 ◼   ► But that seems to be the last decade.

00:55:44 ◼   ► And also Mark notes that there is a feeling that with Siri AI in

00:55:49 ◼   ► wearables, right, which they're making work with the watch with Watch OS, it gives

00:55:52 ◼   ► them more avenues to try new things and call them AI devices as well

00:55:56 ◼   ► as fitness devices.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Like, you know, like in this it's in the screenless wearable, right?

00:56:01 ◼   ► Put a microphone in there, let me talk in my ideas into it, right?

00:56:04 ◼   ► Like, why not?

00:56:05 ◼   ► You know, like the processing's all happening on the phone anyway, and so you've

00:56:10 ◼   ► just let it do its thing.

00:56:11 ◼   ► So I think this is really interesting, and I'm I've I'm really excited about

00:56:15 ◼   ► this because I want to see them do more, you know.

00:56:18 ◼   ► Like it's I was we were talking about this a couple of weeks ago

00:56:21 ◼   ► with a watch redesign.

00:56:22 ◼   ► And for me, I just feel like the Apple Watch is stagnated for like

00:56:27 ◼   ► five, six years.

00:56:28 ◼   ► Like, it just doesn't feel like they've pushed this device into different areas, and

00:56:34 ◼   ► so I'm very excited about the possibility.

00:56:36 ◼   ► I don't mind the Apple Watch not changing on its own, because for example,

00:56:42 ◼   ► um talking to Stephen Hackett, right?

00:56:45 ◼   ► Like, he's got like a Casio or something.

00:56:48 ◼   ► I don't even know.

00:56:48 ◼   ► He's got he's got a he's got a watch that has looked the same

00:56:51 ◼   ► for decades.

00:56:53 ◼   ► They sell all sorts of watches that have looked the same for decades.

00:56:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:57 ◼   ► The Apple Watch series, as it's currently constituted, is perfectly nice.

00:57:03 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be the only thing they do.

00:57:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:05 ◼   ► Right?

00:57:06 ◼   ► It just doesn't have to be the only one.

00:57:10 ◼   ► So, yeah.

00:57:12 ◼   ► Uh, in this newsletter, Mark also shares that Apple feels very confident in the

00:57:16 ◼   ► future of the iPhone fold.

00:57:18 ◼   ► They're expecting to revise it annually, and the third version is expected to have

00:57:22 ◼   ► slightly larger screens, so they're already planning this product out.

00:57:26 ◼   ► Great.

00:57:27 ◼   ► I look forward to the summer Samsung announcement with a larger screen in 2028

00:57:31 ◼   ► that then leads to the Apple announcement that fall.

00:57:34 ◼   ► This is what they get to do.

00:57:35 ◼   ► They're gonna make the displays.

00:57:37 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:57:38 ◼   ► I will say, like, you know, the reviews for that phone are making me

00:57:44 ◼   ► so excited about the folding iPhone because everyone that's tried that folding Samsung is

00:57:49 ◼   ► like, oh wow, this one, this form factor's fantastic.

00:57:52 ◼   ► Like people are really excited about this form factor for for whatever reason, and

00:57:56 ◼   ► it feels like one of these things, like you kind of got to use

00:57:59 ◼   ► it to understand it, because it seemed like nobody understood why Samsung would make

00:57:59 ◼   ► this.

00:58:04 ◼   ► And like a lot of the talk was like, oh, they're just doing it

00:58:07 ◼   ► to cover off Apple.

00:58:08 ◼   ► But now it turns out maybe they did it because the form factor's really

00:58:11 ◼   ► nice.

00:58:12 ◼   ► Really nice.

00:58:12 ◼   ► It gets just a nice shape and size.

00:58:14 ◼   ► So very excited.

00:58:16 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:58:16 ◼   ► Beats Beats reports about people 3D printing plastic folding iPhones.

00:58:21 ◼   ► Yeah, and being like, it's like an actual phone.

00:58:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:25 ◼   ► And this is kind of rumor roundup and follow-up.

00:58:27 ◼   ► Uh apparently, according to Mark Goman, Apple was considering an option for the Apple

00:58:33 ◼   ► upgrade program, where your device arrived with all of your data preloaded, which was

00:58:39 ◼   ► something we spoke about a few months ago, like the idea of why can't

00:58:42 ◼   ► Apple do this.

00:58:43 ◼   ► But apparently it was considered to be an optics issue from privacy that you

00:58:47 ◼   ► would be shipping somebody's phone with all their personal information on it in a

00:58:50 ◼   ► box somewhere.

00:58:51 ◼   ► Even though this is a solvable problem.

00:58:53 ◼   ► I imagine that it was encrypted data that would be only decryptable by you

00:58:57 ◼   ► entering in your Apple ID password, at which point it would decrypt it all.

00:59:02 ◼   ► I'm sure that's what they were thinking, but they were still like, people aren't

00:59:05 ◼   ► going to understand that.

00:59:06 ◼   ► And and then it's going to become like a whole thing.

00:59:08 ◼   ► And so they decided not to do it.

00:59:09 ◼   ► But I still think that's a shame.

00:59:10 ◼   ► I think as an opt-in, like absolutely they should do this.

00:59:13 ◼   ► But anyway.

00:59:30 ◼   ► With different parts of the work cross-functionally with different parts of the company.

00:59:34 ◼   ► And also during her career at Apple, Legros helped manage product delivery, development schedules,

00:59:39 ◼   ► and coordination across engineering teams to ensure they remained aligned.

00:59:45 ◼   ► I think it'll be interesting to see where Legros fits on the leadership page.

00:59:49 ◼   ► And if there are going to be other changes on September 1st.

00:59:52 ◼   ► Because remember, Suruji will be chief hardware officer.

00:59:55 ◼   ► And so where does this person fit?

00:59:57 ◼   ► And what else is he going to do?

00:59:58 ◼   ► It's exciting times.

00:59:59 ◼   ► It's so close.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Sure feels like she's um like his uh fixer, his enforcer, his feels like

01:00:07 ◼   ► that, right?

01:00:08 ◼   ► Big I I want you to help me deal with big issues across the

01:00:13 ◼   ► company and making sure that the sort of like CEO level, so she's almost

01:00:18 ◼   ► like his lieutenant for big picture stuff, which is really interesting.

01:00:25 ◼   ► And somebody obviously that he relied on.

01:00:28 ◼   ► Uh we all made the Big Bob Mansfield reference to.

01:00:31 ◼   ► It's the coming out of retirement kind of.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I need you.

01:00:34 ◼   ► The CEO at Apple needs you and we need your help.

01:00:37 ◼   ► It also could be that like she felt like she had done everything that

01:00:40 ◼   ► she could, and now suddenly the guy she worked with is the CEO, and

01:00:43 ◼   ► he's like, I got some new stuff that's real important.

01:00:46 ◼   ► You want to come back?

01:00:46 ◼   ► And she was like, All right, okay.

01:00:47 ◼   ► I'll do that.

01:00:48 ◼   ► Just when I thought they was out.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Yeah, no, they pull they pulled her right back in.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Speaking of, actually, Ted Lasso's back.

01:00:56 ◼   ► So you wrote a review of episode one of Ted Lasso.

01:01:00 ◼   ► I wrote a review of the first five episodes.

01:01:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Well, you can't say that, right?

01:01:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:07 ◼   ► Well, no, I mean, this is look, Apple's embargo for this was really unclear,

01:01:11 ◼   ► but the fact is, all the TV critics write a non-spoilery review of the

01:01:17 ◼   ► episodes that they've seen.

01:01:19 ◼   ► And I mean, I specifically call out characters who are not in episode one,

01:01:23 ◼   ► so I mean, you tell me.

01:01:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:25 ◼   ► But I I I'm not gonna give away like everything that happens, but I

01:01:27 ◼   ► can give I'm I am giving impressions about the first half of the season

01:01:31 ◼   ► because I've seen the whole first half of the season.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Me too.

01:01:34 ◼   ► This I I'll read a quote from your Six Calls Post.

01:01:37 ◼   ► Uh I've seen the first half of the season.

01:01:39 ◼   ► I'm happy to report that though the teams have changed, this is still Ted

01:01:43 ◼   ► Lasso through and through.

01:01:44 ◼   ► Thematically the first three seasons are about Ted's journey about Ted's journey's running in

01:01:48 ◼   ► running away from a dissolving marriage.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Season four a whole new set of themes begin to emerge.

01:01:54 ◼   ► And saying about the three seasons, you know, Ted Lasso's season four is more

01:01:59 ◼   ► in tone with Ted Lasso season one, I feel like, than anything else.

01:02:03 ◼   ► Sure.

01:02:04 ◼   ► But especially because it's building right like we're building a new squad.

01:02:08 ◼   ► Uh but I think that that is to say that this is as good

01:02:12 ◼   ► as the show has been, I think like as good as it is good.

01:02:16 ◼   ► This show is also at that level.

01:02:17 ◼   ► I don't think it exceeds the way Ted Lasso season one made me feel

01:02:21 ◼   ► but I think it's impossible to do that considering like the time in which

01:02:24 ◼   ► we were watching that show.

01:02:26 ◼   ► But it has a lot of all of the things that I love about

01:02:30 ◼   ► Ted Lasso are in this except for there is a character that is added

01:02:35 ◼   ► to the season that I'm not supposed to like but the amount that I

01:02:39 ◼   ► dislike this character is reducing my enjoyment of the show.

01:02:43 ◼   ► Like I I I really really dislike this character and every time they're on

01:02:47 ◼   ► the screen I'm annoyed about the fact that they're on the screen.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Is this Coach Alice?

01:02:52 ◼   ► No I love Coach Alice.

01:02:53 ◼   ► Okay.

01:02:54 ◼   ► I love Coach Alice.

01:02:55 ◼   ► This is a character that's introduced like a couple of episodes in um and

01:02:59 ◼   ► I I really really dislike the the portrayal of this character.

01:03:04 ◼   ► Okay.

01:03:04 ◼   ► Um, well, I I coach Alice I wanted to mention.

01:03:07 ◼   ► So this is Tanya Reynolds, who was in sex education as the um the

01:03:10 ◼   ► girl who writes the fan fiction about like aliens having sex with her.

01:03:14 ◼   ► Um seen this show, so that is an incredible just random thing to pull,

01:03:19 ◼   ► but okay.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Oh, I mean, well, that's that's sex education for you.

01:03:22 ◼   ► It's great, great show.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Um Hannah Warningham is in it too.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Um, so and and Jillian Anderson for Pete's sake.

01:03:30 ◼   ► Anyway, um she's great because what I said in the piece is um this

01:03:38 ◼   ► could have been like uh gooey love fest where it's like we got the

01:03:43 ◼   ► band back together, it's a reunion show, everybody's having a good time.

01:03:46 ◼   ► And that character is important because that that character is there to make trouble,

01:03:51 ◼   ► basically, and to make it not happy and to make them have to figure

01:03:55 ◼   ► out how they're gonna approach with the women's team.

01:03:59 ◼   ► And that is necessary.

01:04:01 ◼   ► You need you need to have some lessons for Ted.

01:04:06 ◼   ► You need to have some opportunity for growth.

01:04:08 ◼   ► You he he wants to be her mentor and doesn't understand how to do

01:04:13 ◼   ► that, which is good.

01:04:15 ◼   ► Yes.

01:04:16 ◼   ► So I really I I I like that character.

01:04:18 ◼   ► And she she gives opportunities for Tedisms, right?

01:04:23 ◼   ► Little little lessons of like pieces of wisdom.

01:04:26 ◼   ► Also true uh that he can he can impart.

01:04:29 ◼   ► My my other note in the in the piece is that I I love

01:04:32 ◼   ► Roy Kent.

01:04:32 ◼   ► I love Brett Goldstein.

01:04:34 ◼   ► Um I I think he feels the least integrated, like so much of it

01:04:39 ◼   ► is perfectly natural because it's still at Richmond and it's still the Richmond football

01:04:42 ◼   ► club, but now we're looking at the at the at the women's club, and

01:04:46 ◼   ► the meds club is still there, but like all we really ever see of

01:04:49 ◼   ► it is that Roy Kent appears from time to time.

01:04:51 ◼   ► It's almost like he's in a cameo from a different show.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Yeah that is happening in parallel.

01:04:56 ◼   ► He keeps walking into the bar and the audience cheer.

01:05:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:01 ◼   ► And and my feeling is that's such a strong character that he either needs

01:04:59 ◼   ► to be more in or less in than he is.

01:05:06 ◼   ► But I I get why he's there because Brett Goldstein is under contract and

01:05:11 ◼   ► uh it's a very popular character.

01:05:14 ◼   ► I also appreciate the irony that this character has been relegated to being about

01:05:20 ◼   ► his relationship with Keely.

01:05:23 ◼   ► Yeah, because that what I like the turn about there that this is this

01:05:29 ◼   ► is uh the manager of the men's team, but on this show, all we

01:05:33 ◼   ► care about is is his relationship status.

01:05:35 ◼   ► It's good, actually, which is what women what female characters it happens to them

01:05:39 ◼   ► all the time.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Yeah, so that that Roy Kent is is getting that too.

01:05:42 ◼   ► At the same time, I'm like I love seeing Roy Kent again, but I

01:05:46 ◼   ► don't know why he's there.

01:05:47 ◼   ► He feels extraneous.

01:05:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I know what you mean.

01:05:50 ◼   ► It is weird, but I I do I do like I like the journey

01:05:55 ◼   ► that his character is going on.

01:05:57 ◼   ► Like it, but yes, it does sometimes feel like he is shoehorned into the

01:06:01 ◼   ► show.

01:06:02 ◼   ► Like, where's the rest of the team?

01:06:04 ◼   ► Or you just see someone running away in the distance, and here's Roy, you

01:06:07 ◼   ► know, here's Roy.

01:06:10 ◼   ► Don't worry about it.

01:06:11 ◼   ► And in fact, I think I think what I'd like more is if they

01:06:14 ◼   ► had leaned more into the idea that Roy is on his own show, like

01:06:17 ◼   ► referencing kind of a subplot that's happening on the show that you're not seeing

01:06:22 ◼   ► would actually be kind of funny.

01:06:24 ◼   ► Yes.

01:06:25 ◼   ► But they don't really do that.

01:06:26 ◼   ► It's more like he he runs into Keely and everything's really awkward.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Like one episode, he comes in and he's wearing an eye patch, you know.

01:06:32 ◼   ► It's like, why is he wearing that eye patch?

01:06:34 ◼   ► Like, no, you know, don't worry about it.

01:06:36 ◼   ► Well, or or or worse, you know, Beard says, Oh yeah, that thing that

01:06:41 ◼   ► and then he's like, Yeah, that thing.

01:06:42 ◼   ► It's such a thing.

01:06:42 ◼   ► And we're like, what thing is that?

01:06:44 ◼   ► And it's like, you'll never know.

01:06:45 ◼   ► Cause it's a good thing.

01:06:44 ◼   ► That would be a really doesn't exist.

01:06:47 ◼   ► I mean, also just like there's a the reason that he's in the show

01:06:50 ◼   ► is because like he's producer, right?

01:06:52 ◼   ► He makes the show, right?

01:06:52 ◼   ► Like Brad Goldstein's one of the creators of the team.

01:06:54 ◼   ► So like there's it's easy to have him on.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Plus, he is obviously a fan favorite character, right?

01:06:59 ◼   ► I think that's it.

01:07:01 ◼   ► If Roy Kent was not in the show, people would would be like, Where's

01:07:04 ◼   ► Roy?

01:07:04 ◼   ► Like it would it would be a deal.

01:07:06 ◼   ► And so they they pick the right person to keep on.

01:07:08 ◼   ► But yeah.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Every second Roy is not on screen, people are asking, where's Roy?

01:07:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:12 ◼   ► I'm loving it.

01:07:13 ◼   ► Like I'm I'm I'm really enjoying it.

01:07:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:15 ◼   ► I I was relieved because again, I was I was screamed that this was

01:07:19 ◼   ► gonna be um, yeah, they they they're trying to just trying to make this

01:07:23 ◼   ► happen and it's not gonna happen, and they were done, and I wish they

01:07:26 ◼   ► would have stopped.

01:07:27 ◼   ► And I I've seen a bunch of sort of very cynical uh takes on

01:07:30 ◼   ► it that are like, why are they doing more of this?

01:07:33 ◼   ► They finished, and it's like, I mean, you know that they're very popular, like

01:07:39 ◼   ► series of books where a book finishes and then they do another book later,

01:07:43 ◼   ► and then they do another book after that.

01:07:45 ◼   ► This is kind of like that.

01:07:46 ◼   ► But some people are like over it.

01:07:48 ◼   ► It's like whatever.

01:07:49 ◼   ► I read one review was amazing.

01:07:51 ◼   ► I read a review that was basically like uh Ted Lazar was never very

01:07:54 ◼   ► good and it still isn't.

01:07:54 ◼   ► I'm like, who is this for?

01:07:56 ◼   ► What is that review for?

01:07:57 ◼   ► Who are you trying to communicate with other than you know, yourself?

01:08:02 ◼   ► Uh but anyway, I so I I had trepidation about it.

01:08:04 ◼   ► I was like, can they really re um redo this and have it be

01:08:08 ◼   ► good again?

01:08:09 ◼   ► And uh it made me laugh and I enjoyed it, so I'm you know,

01:08:13 ◼   ► I'm through five episodes.

01:08:15 ◼   ► I'm very positive about it.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Me too.

01:08:17 ◼   ► Uh I'm I'm loving it.

01:08:19 ◼   ► Uh there's a couple more, actually, I think, Jason on the on the screen,

01:08:22 ◼   ► is which I've watched too.

01:08:23 ◼   ► So well, we'll have to get we'll have to get to be good, but

01:08:25 ◼   ► I've only seen through five still.

01:08:27 ◼   ► But we'll get back to it.

01:08:29 ◼   ► Screen the ways of the Apple TV screeners app are mysterious.

01:08:29 ◼   ► Yeah, it's uh very mysterious.

01:08:36 ◼   ► Sometimes, Jason, sometimes it doesn't look like there's an episode, but if you just

01:08:40 ◼   ► tap the thing at an episode place, so you just never know.

01:08:43 ◼   ► You never know.

01:08:44 ◼   ► And other times it looks like you've got all the shows, but if you

01:08:47 ◼   ► tap any of the shows you don't have you don't have them, it dies.

01:08:50 ◼   ► Yes.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Crash.

01:08:52 ◼   ► Fascinating.

01:08:53 ◼   ► Mysterious ways.

01:08:56 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Backblaze.

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01:09:54 ◼   ► It is time for some ask upgrade questions.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Nihao wrote and then asks.

01:10:00 ◼   ► I seem to remember you talking about the Spider-Man comics that you've loved, and

01:10:04 ◼   ► I want to know where you recommend starting.

01:10:07 ◼   ► Uh I I would give two points that I would like to recommend for

01:10:11 ◼   ► people, and I believe that we agree at least on one of them.

01:10:15 ◼   ► The ultimate the original Ultimate Spider-Man run from Brian by Michael Bendis from 2000

01:10:22 ◼   ► and through 2009.

01:10:24 ◼   ► Yep.

01:10:24 ◼   ► Is my favorite overall kind of Spider-Man?

01:10:28 ◼   ► I have all of those as hardcovers.

01:10:29 ◼   ► I have the whole whole run.

01:10:30 ◼   ► It's brilliant.

01:10:31 ◼   ► It's a shelf on my bookshelf, yeah.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Absolutely brilliant.

01:10:34 ◼   ► It's a modern retelling and recasting of the classic Spider-Man mythos.

01:10:40 ◼   ► So instead of it being spun out by various writers over the course of

01:10:43 ◼   ► 30 years from the 60s and having all, you know, it it's kind of

01:10:47 ◼   ► ungainly and a mess.

01:10:49 ◼   ► And then from that movies took little bits.

01:10:52 ◼   ► This is like a retelling, a masterful retelling by the same one writer, Brian

01:10:57 ◼   ► Michael Bendis, and I think only two artists over the course of a decade

01:11:01 ◼   ► telling a lot of the same beats of the Spider-Man mythos in a more

01:11:07 ◼   ► kind of modern context, and it's really, really good.

01:11:10 ◼   ► Yes, really good.

01:11:12 ◼   ► And and yeah, it is like the the classic, like he's a kid, right?

01:11:17 ◼   ► Like it's Spider-Man's a kid, and you're going to do it all over again,

01:11:20 ◼   ► and some of the characters aren't who you think they are or don't act

01:11:24 ◼   ► the way you think they're gonna act, really good.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:11:27 ◼   ► And um that's where Miles Morales comes from, by the way, is that comes

01:11:31 ◼   ► out of that series.

01:11:32 ◼   ► So that's where um Miles Morales from the uh Spider-Veries is his origin is

01:11:38 ◼   ► in the ultimate ultimate Spider-Man.

01:11:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:42 ◼   ► Um there is also a run on the amazing Spider-Man by Nick Spencer.

01:11:46 ◼   ► I'll have links to these in the show notes.

01:11:48 ◼   ► They're good writer, Nick Spencer.

01:11:50 ◼   ► The this run, it's it's a more adult Spider-Man, and some of the issues

01:11:56 ◼   ► of this are just unbelievably good.

01:12:00 ◼   ► Uh it this is a really, really good uh run of Spider-Man that I

01:11:59 ◼   ► recommend uh to people.

01:12:06 ◼   ► I recommend it in this order.

01:12:07 ◼   ► I recommend Ultimate, then Amazing Spider-Man, because they're they're dealing with different things.

01:12:12 ◼   ► Um yeah, I recommend both of those Spider-Man rules.

01:12:16 ◼   ► Yeah, um, and and my other Spider-Man recommendation is not Spider-Man, it's Invincible from

01:12:22 ◼   ► Image Comics by Robert Kirkman.

01:12:24 ◼   ► Now a popular Amazon Prime video show.

01:12:27 ◼   ► It is Invincible is a love letter to uh teenage superhero angst comics, of

01:12:35 ◼   ► which the prime example is Spider-Man.

01:12:38 ◼   ► It is very clearly a Spider-Man esque uh story, even though Invincible is more

01:12:44 ◼   ► Superman like in his powers, but it's about family and sadness and relationships and

01:12:50 ◼   ► betrayal and also lots of punching and flying and capes.

01:12:53 ◼   ► And that's a complete like Ultimate Spider-Man, a completed series.

01:12:58 ◼   ► Um I I think the Amazon Prime show is actually really great too.

01:13:02 ◼   ► I've only heard good things about that show.

01:13:04 ◼   ► Great show, really good adaptation.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Um, but Invincible Kirkman, while he was doing The Walking Dead, also was doing

01:13:10 ◼   ► Invincible, and it's like the two different sides of his personality where there's this

01:13:14 ◼   ► like black and white, dark, awful uh apocalyptic story, and then this brightly colored

01:13:21 ◼   ► love letter to superhero comics, and I love it.

01:13:24 ◼   ► I also have the complete run of Invincible on my bookshelf because I love

01:13:27 ◼   ► it so much.

01:13:28 ◼   ► I read like half of Invincible.

01:13:30 ◼   ► I think I like read and caught up and then just fell off.

01:13:33 ◼   ► I was very thankful for Invincible because I was reading The Walking Dead and

01:13:36 ◼   ► at one point just had to tap out.

01:13:39 ◼   ► Like there's this rough.

01:13:41 ◼   ► Yeah, it it's the same point that made people tap out in the show.

01:13:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:48 ◼   ► Right?

01:13:48 ◼   ► And it's just it gets Walking Dead gets to a point and it's like

01:13:52 ◼   ► I I don't know how anyone can continue with this.

01:13:56 ◼   ► And I got to that point in the comics, couldn't do it anymore, and

01:13:59 ◼   ► then went to Invincible.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Because I really liked the way that uh he tells stories, but he just

01:14:05 ◼   ► went to the just goes too far.

01:14:06 ◼   ► Walking Dead goes too far.

01:14:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:08 ◼   ► Like also, by the way, in the comics, that is so much worse than

01:14:12 ◼   ► it is in uh the TV show.

01:14:14 ◼   ► Like thankfully they they didn't do everything on the TV show that they did

01:14:19 ◼   ► in the comics.

01:14:20 ◼   ► It is I can't I just can't believe the places that it went to.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Um Logan writes in the section two weeks ago about upgrading now versus waiting

01:14:30 ◼   ► until September is really making me think.

01:14:32 ◼   ► On the one hand, the idea of the fold is really intriguing to me

01:14:36 ◼   ► as often as I wish I had an iPad mini for things like reading

01:14:39 ◼   ► on social media and having the fold meet that need would be great.

01:14:43 ◼   ► On the other hand, coming from a 15 pro, which I could stick with

01:14:46 ◼   ► for another year or two easily, getting a 17 Pro that will last me

01:14:49 ◼   ► another three to four years with a price bump seems like a good idea.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Help.

01:14:54 ◼   ► I think if you have choice slogan, then just wait.

01:14:57 ◼   ► Like if if if it you could afford the potential many thousands of dollars

01:15:04 ◼   ► of iPhone fold, I would say don't upgrade and just wait it out.

01:15:09 ◼   ► Like, yeah, you might pay more if you're gonna then upgrade to the 18

01:15:12 ◼   ► and and that will suck, but you you know, it's like I would I

01:15:17 ◼   ► would wait.

01:15:17 ◼   ► I would wait.

01:15:18 ◼   ► I would wait too because the other thing is there will be a bunch

01:15:24 ◼   ► of refurbed used 17 pros out there.

01:15:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:27 ◼   ► And if you if the if the fold doesn't do it for you or

01:15:31 ◼   ► is too expensive or whatever, you could do a kind of like a partial

01:15:37 ◼   ► upgrade to a 17 Pro, which is a really good phone, even if the

01:15:41 ◼   ► 18 Pro is out for probably a reasonable price as a used or refurbed.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:48 ◼   ► And uh and maybe that's the way you do it if you don't like

01:15:52 ◼   ► the fold after all.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Uh Mike writes in and says, what is your current launcher setup?

01:15:58 ◼   ► And what are your thoughts on Siri AI being integrated into Spotlight on the

01:16:02 ◼   ► Mac so far?

01:16:04 ◼   ► I struggle to use it to remember to use it because I just don't

01:16:09 ◼   ► think in those terms, but it's been okay so far.

01:16:12 ◼   ► I um my current status is I have spotlight on command space and I

01:16:16 ◼   ► have launch bar on command shift space.

01:16:19 ◼   ► Um I mostly don't use launch bar.

01:16:23 ◼   ► Actually, and this is my note for Apple, and I should probably find a

01:16:26 ◼   ► utility that does this, but my most used reason to use launch bar is

01:16:32 ◼   ► that launch bar will insert an emoji when you type the name of the

01:16:37 ◼   ► emoji.

01:16:38 ◼   ► You literally just type grimace and hit return and the grimace emoji goes where

01:16:43 ◼   ► your cursor is.

01:16:44 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

01:16:44 ◼   ► And I know there's like Rocket, but that one is.

01:16:48 ◼   ► But that's like with cold like colon expansions and stuff like Slack.

01:16:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I I I like well what I don't like is that Rocket then

01:16:58 ◼   ► pla happens in contexts where I don't want it, but then I tell it

01:17:01 ◼   ► not to be there, and then it's not available in other contexts.

01:17:03 ◼   ► And command, you know, command space or command shift space and typing and hitting

01:17:07 ◼   ► return is perfect.

01:17:09 ◼   ► It's a better way, I like it better than using Rocket.

01:17:12 ◼   ► And so maybe there's another utility out there that just does that, or maybe

01:17:14 ◼   ► I'll just keep using Launch Bar as an emoji launcher.

01:17:18 ◼   ► But I my my note to Apple is Spotlight should insert emoji.

01:17:22 ◼   ► That's my note to Apple.

01:17:24 ◼   ► Spotlight should insert emoji.

01:17:26 ◼   ► But anyway, um, I'm mostly just using Spotlight and it's fine and it works

01:17:30 ◼   ► pretty well.

01:17:30 ◼   ► And when I use the Siri AI stuff with it, it works.

01:17:33 ◼   ► It's just that mostly I don't think about that.

01:17:36 ◼   ► But sometimes I do, and I use it, and it works pretty well.

01:17:39 ◼   ► Not perfect, but pretty well.

01:17:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:42 ◼   ► I don't know if in in Rocket maybe you can like uh change the

01:17:49 ◼   ► like the thing they use to bring it up.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Maybe that would be helpful to you.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Um I can't find the Rocket Preference pane because I hit it from menu

01:17:58 ◼   ► bar, and now I just can't open the purpose.

01:18:00 ◼   ► Of course.

01:18:00 ◼   ► I just can't do it.

01:18:01 ◼   ► So got that going on for me.

01:18:03 ◼   ► I need a good menu bar utility, but I'm waiting now.

01:18:06 ◼   ► I I figure I don't know.

01:18:07 ◼   ► They're all broken.

01:18:08 ◼   ► Well, I'm not using um Tahoe, and I know that Tahoe has some function,

01:18:15 ◼   ► so I'm just kind of just gonna wait and see what that's all about.

01:18:17 ◼   ► Like, and I don't want to.

01:18:19 ◼   ► And it doesn't matter.

01:18:21 ◼   ► I mean, not really.

01:18:21 ◼   ► It's it's just gonna be a good one.

01:18:23 ◼   ► Well, I know they're all broken in Golden Gate, so I don't want to

01:18:26 ◼   ► get too um attached to one.

01:18:28 ◼   ► Anyway, that's a that's a problem for another time.

01:18:30 ◼   ► I use Spotlight, I'm happy with Spotlight, and I've started using Pay Spot 3

01:18:34 ◼   ► uh for clipboard um to instead of spotlight clipboard or anything else.

01:18:38 ◼   ► Oh, I'm still using launch bar for clipboard right now.

01:18:42 ◼   ► And David wants to know I was curious if you had seen or had

01:18:45 ◼   ► any comment on Jamie Ding winning on Who Wants to be a Millionaire.

01:18:50 ◼   ► I don't.

01:18:50 ◼   ► I didn't watch it, uh, but I saw that he was on, and I'm

01:18:54 ◼   ► a big fan of Jamie.

01:18:55 ◼   ► And um was that was that for charity?

01:18:57 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:18:57 ◼   ► I was switching something anyway.

01:18:59 ◼   ► Uh he won with Ben Affleck.

01:19:00 ◼   ► I is I don't know how Charity Millionaire works.

01:18:59 ◼   ► I assume that it all goes to charity.

01:19:06 ◼   ► I think it all goes to charity.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Usually it's like two really famous people.

01:19:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:11 ◼   ► I bet Jamie got paid something to be there.

01:19:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Although maybe he donated it to charity because he is that kind of guy.

01:19:18 ◼   ► I love Jamie.

01:19:19 ◼   ► He's great.

01:19:20 ◼   ► And it's not a surprise that you won millionaire, right?

01:19:22 ◼   ► Like it's not surprising.

01:19:24 ◼   ► Not surprising.

01:19:25 ◼   ► He's he knows everything.

01:19:26 ◼   ► Jamie, we I learned this on my tape day.

01:19:28 ◼   ► Jamie Ding uh learns everything.

01:19:30 ◼   ► Oh, I have a but I have a related.

01:19:32 ◼   ► I'm gonna do a little pre-announce here.

01:19:33 ◼   ► All right.

01:19:34 ◼   ► Which is um I'm gonna pre-announce a segment that you're gonna see in the

01:19:38 ◼   ► relay St.

01:19:39 ◼   ► Jew Podcast-a-thon this year.

01:19:41 ◼   ► Which is Glenn and Dan and I are gonna play a game that is

01:19:46 ◼   ► similar to but legally distinct from Jeopardy.

01:19:50 ◼   ► Who's is this like who's the best?

01:19:52 ◼   ► Who's actually the best?

01:19:53 ◼   ► You put him off against the game.

01:19:54 ◼   ► Well, it's just one game.

01:19:55 ◼   ► So you know, it's just one game.

01:19:58 ◼   ► We did a practice last week using this um online uh Jeopardy.

01:20:04 ◼   ► Shite Shmeavity tool.

01:20:06 ◼   ► Well, it's called Jay Party.

01:20:07 ◼   ► Okay.

01:20:08 ◼   ► Totally different.

01:20:09 ◼   ► J Party.

01:20:10 ◼   ► Get it?

01:20:11 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:20:12 ◼   ► And we are we uh it works great, actually.

01:20:15 ◼   ► It was a lot of fun to play a game of Jeopardy.

01:20:17 ◼   ► And um, to be full disclosure, um, Dan won.

01:20:21 ◼   ► Dan won.

01:20:22 ◼   ► Dan won.

01:20:23 ◼   ► I was close.

01:20:23 ◼   ► I made it, he had to answer right in in uh in final.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Uh Glenn was also present, although Glenn knew it turns out knows everything about

01:20:32 ◼   ► gardening.

01:20:33 ◼   ► I had no idea.

01:20:33 ◼   ► There's a gardening category, and he he killed it.

01:20:35 ◼   ► But uh that was just a sample based on an old Jeopardy game.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Uh, but we have a custom board created to by a a listener who

01:20:43 ◼   ► is also a trivia host who used to be a writer for a trivia

01:20:48 ◼   ► podcast and came to us and said, I would love to write a Jeopardy

01:20:52 ◼   ► like, legally distinct uh set of questions for you guys to play.

01:20:57 ◼   ► And I said, why don't we do that for St.

01:20:58 ◼   ► Jude's?

01:20:59 ◼   ► So we're gonna record that in advance, and then all of us in Memphis

01:21:02 ◼   ► will get a 30 minute break when that runs, but um, which is great.

01:21:06 ◼   ► And I think people will love it.

01:21:08 ◼   ► And uh I look forward to it.

01:21:09 ◼   ► So that's a little forward promotion of Jeopardy related items, is that we're finally

01:21:13 ◼   ► going to get the throwdown between me and Dan and Glenn.

01:21:17 ◼   ► I can't wait.

01:21:19 ◼   ► I can't wait to see that.

01:21:20 ◼   ► Can't wait to see that.

01:21:21 ◼   ► I can't wait to play it.

01:21:22 ◼   ► That's gonna be good times.

01:21:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:24 ◼   ► If you would like to send us your feet, I'll put a link in

01:21:27 ◼   ► the show notes by the way, to the winning moment.

01:21:28 ◼   ► Uh I did watch the winning moment.

01:21:30 ◼   ► It's pretty cool.

01:21:31 ◼   ► Uh of uh Jamie Ding on Millionaire.

01:21:34 ◼   ► Uh you can send us your feedback, your follow-up, your questions over at upgradefeedback.com.

01:21:40 ◼   ► I would like to thank our members who support us who have upgrade plus.

01:21:43 ◼   ► You can get longer ad-free versions of the show each and every week.

01:21:46 ◼   ► You can find a video version of this show on YouTube by searching for

01:21:49 ◼   ► upgrade podcast.

01:21:51 ◼   ► I would like to thank our sponsors of this episode.

01:21:53 ◼   ► That's the fine folk over at Fitbod Daylight and Backblaze.

01:21:57 ◼   ► But most of all, as always, I would like to thank you for listening.

01:22:00 ◼   ► Until next time, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Goodbye, my curly.