00:00:10 ◼ ► Can you imagine us, any of the three of us or the three of us together, trying to do that
00:00:33 ◼ ► But I think there are clips from the show that could be turned in, like given, leaving aside
00:00:42 ◼ ► But you could take like a two to three minute, you know, one of you two making fun of me or
00:00:46 ◼ ► vice versa and turn that into a TikTok friendly, Reels friendly clip, leaving aside the fact
00:00:57 ◼ ► It wouldn't be funny when you if you're just breezing through your feet and you don't know
00:01:01 ◼ ► any of us and you've never heard our show and you've never heard our banter and you don't
00:01:05 ◼ ► I feel like there isn't any like brief little quick hit that you could put in a clip, even
00:01:10 ◼ ► if it was heavily edited, that would be as like funny or interesting to even come close
00:01:20 ◼ ► back reference to a joke that we made 10 years ago or we're, you know, playing off of something
00:01:24 ◼ ► that we think is funny about each other or whatever, like no one's like if you just breeze through
00:01:29 ◼ ► and you and you see five seconds of, you know, me and John making fun of you, Casey, or like
00:01:43 ◼ ► I bet you, I bet you that somebody listening with talent in a way that none of the three of
00:01:48 ◼ ► us have talent could put together at least a passable, again, leaving aside the lack of
00:01:59 ◼ ► Well, it's a good thing that we are also known for constantly bringing in external talent and
00:02:15 ◼ ► Uh, we spoke last week, uh, slash two days ago in our time about a truly incredible, I think
00:02:45 ◼ ► And so Adam, uh, wrote again after the last episode and said, thank you for your kind words
00:02:58 ◼ ► I have a website with a blog set up, but while I've never used it, it has always been my desire
00:03:06 ◼ ► I have been a, having been a journalist in another era, more recently, my writing skills
00:03:14 ◼ ► Since the three of you were so encouraging, I decided to turn on the blog and create the post.
00:03:26 ◼ ► Moving right along, uh, with regard to Mac asked Mac apps, Ingmar Whitcow writes regarding
00:03:35 ◼ ► Today, I was blown away by how you share files between two Macs when using the screen sharing
00:03:39 ◼ ► You just dragged them out of, or into the screen sharing window to the other Mac, which
00:03:53 ◼ ► And if I wanted to move a file to or from it, I could drag from my, uh, my Mac book pro on
00:04:01 ◼ ► So the desktop desktop from my Mac book pro onto that window and drop it and it will transfer
00:04:06 ◼ ► Or I can drag from the Mac mini's desktop onto my desktop and it will transfer, transfer the
00:04:22 ◼ ► Well, I remember when I discovered that feature many years ago, um, and it was exactly the same
00:04:39 ◼ ► And the second thing I'll add, this is one of my hobby horses that I should maybe formalize
00:04:45 ◼ ► But I think, uh, screen sharing to another Mac and dragging files from the screen sharing
00:04:51 ◼ ► window to your local Mac or from your local Mac into the screen sharing window is actually
00:04:55 ◼ ► easier than using file sharing in the finder because file sharing in the finder is so bad
00:05:08 ◼ ► It's just, it's just why, why isn't just, they really need to like 100% completely overhaul
00:05:15 ◼ ► the UI and apparently the backend for screen sharing between two Macs or for, for a file
00:05:20 ◼ ► sharing between two Macs that are literally in the same room feet from each other connected
00:05:46 ◼ ► I'm like, yeah, but I have to put the username in because I don't want to connect as me.
00:05:58 ◼ ► Doesn't make you, you know, if you've connected to it before, it remembers the thing and just
00:06:06 ◼ ► Uh, but yeah, uh, if you, if you think of something that you think should work in a Mac app, try
00:06:18 ◼ ► Griffey and I asked John to cut it down and I took a look at cutting it down and neither
00:06:30 ◼ ► I cut it down further when you requested it, but I put in, I did put down cut down versions
00:06:36 ◼ ► of this and the other item that was too long that will probably be for next episode, but
00:06:48 ◼ ► So Jason Griffey writes, uh, I'm sorry, this is within the context is the overtime segment
00:07:05 ◼ ► The first thing to know is that libraries get their own copyright exceptions separate from
00:07:20 ◼ ► So under section 108 C, a library can legally make up to three replacement copies of a published
00:07:31 ◼ ► The catch is that digital copies made this way can't be made available to the public outside
00:07:38 ◼ ► There's also section 108 H, which opens things up further in the last 20 years of a works copyright
00:07:53 ◼ ► Section 1201 makes it illegal to circumvent DRM full stop, even to make a copy that section
00:08:02 ◼ ► You have the right to preserve the game, and a separate law makes it a violation to do the
00:08:23 ◼ ► This is the one place the law stops being format neutral because each exemption is argued and
00:08:30 ◼ ► The good news is that libraries, archives, and museums currently have an exemption to break
00:08:41 ◼ ► In 2024, the Software Preservation Network and the Video Game History Foundation petitioned
00:09:05 ◼ ► Every legal privilege I've described belongs to libraries, archives, and museums specifically.
00:09:21 ◼ ► Libraries are community resources with an institutional mandate to preserve things for decades,
00:09:36 ◼ ► The best way to make sure this preservation actually happens is to lavishly fund libraries
00:09:43 ◼ ► There are dozens of gamer librarians out there dying to be able to build an archive of out-of-print
00:09:49 ◼ ► Let me just quickly add that I am extremely lucky, and I know not everyone is, and I've
00:09:56 ◼ ► Where I happen to live has exceptional libraries, and if you are in a place that even vaguely
00:10:11 ◼ ► Oftentimes, the internet is surprisingly good because there's not all that many people all trying
00:10:20 ◼ ► Yeah, last week's example I gave of like that publishers, you know, people, game publishers
00:10:26 ◼ ► are, you know, the companies that make and own the games have some responsibility, and perhaps
00:10:32 ◼ ► we could be convinced that, you know, the things they've made are culturally important, and they
00:10:37 ◼ ► They have the server code that we were talking about, like, oh, even if you have the game,
00:10:41 ◼ ► So they have the server code, they have the game code, they have everything they should.
00:10:44 ◼ ► And I gave the example of like, you know, giving Disney giving their important, culturally
00:10:52 ◼ ► And yes, we, Disney, will save it somewhere, but it's better to also have the Library of
00:10:57 ◼ ► And what I didn't emphasize enough was the companies that own the games have to participate
00:11:04 ◼ ► I mean, this is an example of cracking them with or whatever, but like for server stuff,
00:11:10 ◼ ► So those companies have to give it to somebody and say, you never had access to the server
00:11:19 ◼ ► In my example, I use the Library of Congress, and the important part of that was library.
00:11:22 ◼ ► More important than I had even realized because I didn't know these very specific laws applied
00:11:44 ◼ ► Libraries, as pointed out many, many times on the internet, and it is no less true every
00:11:50 ◼ ► If libraries were proposed today, no one would ever do them because they sound too good.
00:12:12 ◼ ► And I hope eventually they get to the point where it's like, you know, don't make people
00:12:18 ◼ ► They can do like they do with e-books, where they have this, you know, artificial scarcity
00:12:25 ◼ ► But you should be able to do that with video games as well and not have to, you know, go to the
00:12:33 ◼ ► So I guess the answer is support your local library and vote for people who will change
00:12:41 ◼ ► Jason Morley writes, with regard to Marco's overcast servers, you should move most or all
00:12:53 ◼ ► And also, you should get a big boy ATS for the network, firewall and critical equipment.
00:12:57 ◼ ► Walk around and look at what everyone else is doing and you're using and ask the data center
00:13:17 ◼ ► Um, and what I like about, about this advice, uh, is, and everyone's basically saying the
00:13:23 ◼ ► same thing that like the Mac minis having them all and all the other equipment beyond a single
00:13:33 ◼ ► And that, and the whole thing about data center hardware is avoid creation of a single point
00:13:57 ◼ ► So they did raise the price, but they're trying to make it appear as though they didn't until
00:14:08 ◼ ► Like in most States, having those kinds of surcharges is illegal, but anyway, um, so what
00:14:36 ◼ ► All of their modern routers support something called shadow, uh, backup or something like
00:14:39 ◼ ► that, like shadow backup mode, where you can basically have two identical ones and they kind
00:14:45 ◼ ► And if you feed the WAN from the WAN switch into both of those routers and then connect
00:14:49 ◼ ► your switches to both of those routers, uh, they will automatically fail over if one detects
00:15:06 ◼ ► Um, but also all of these, you know, recent Ubiquiti things support a second power input,
00:15:15 ◼ ► They have this weird custom DC connector on the left side, and then they sell basically
00:15:20 ◼ ► a separate power supply that you can plug in that will then power all of those DC connectors
00:15:32 ◼ ► So what I'm going to do is plug all of them with their regular AC cords directly into, you
00:15:58 ◼ ► And then for the switch, I just got a second, you know, smaller switch and I'm going to
00:16:04 ◼ ► plug in half the Mac minis into one switch and half the Mac minis into the other switch
00:16:10 ◼ ► I won't have the switches doing active failover quite because the Mac minis only have one
00:16:15 ◼ ► So that wouldn't really, that would be difficult unless I got like, you know, a second network
00:16:30 ◼ ► is just plug half the Mac minis into, you know, side a and plug half into side B and just see
00:16:36 ◼ ► Um, and hopefully then I wouldn't in that scenario, I wouldn't actually need an ATS for anything.
00:16:40 ◼ ► So I canceled my ATS order, um, which wasn't going to ship for, you know, eight to 10 weeks
00:17:03 ◼ ► of agentic AI through a new feature that offers to change your compromised or easy to guess
00:17:07 ◼ ► passwords for you navigating various websites and generating new high security passwords
00:17:29 ◼ ► This was the feature we talked about a little while ago that when it was first announced
00:17:43 ◼ ► We talked about it many episodes ago of like, whatever it was like a scientific paper or
00:17:46 ◼ ► patent or something about like the tech Apple was using to read screens and understand like
00:17:53 ◼ ► Uh, presumably they're using this technology to basically do what you would do as a human.
00:18:20 ◼ ► I mean, and you, when you have trouble finding and then get frustrated and can't find the
00:18:26 ◼ ► Now it's really weird and sketchy because like, okay, so an agent's going to do this with
00:18:38 ◼ ► Like in the end, it's, there's probably a forgot my password thing with email and blah, blah,
00:18:46 ◼ ► Obviously Jason and Dan decided to do it in the beta just so they could write about it,
00:19:08 ◼ ► Like we're, we are going to try to do the thing that sounds like science fiction, which
00:19:12 ◼ ► is just let the computer wander the website and figure out how to change your password.
00:19:22 ◼ ► You get them in Chrome, you get them in passwords where it'll be like, you have 7,500 passwords
00:19:34 ◼ ► So yeah, I probably got a lot of records in my key chain that are really bad for sites that
00:19:43 ◼ ► Well, enter Golden Gate where it's like, you know, you want me to try to change all those?
00:19:55 ◼ ► But again, I still haven't decided whether I'm going to click that button and say, sure,
00:20:01 ◼ ► I don't think that I would be too keen to try this personally, but I mean, I appreciate the
00:20:19 ◼ ► And then there's a video where you can see that Steve is copying image data from an app
00:20:26 ◼ ► and then using paste item, the paste item context menu or contact menu item in finder to create
00:20:43 ◼ ► And this, I think this was back in an earlier beta of Golden Gate, and I just didn't have
00:20:48 ◼ ► I would copy an image and then I would right click in the finder and there was no paste
00:20:54 ◼ ► The context menu would appear and it would have the expected stuff in it, but no paste item.
00:21:01 ◼ ► Well, so I don't have macOS 27 on any of my computers because I don't trust it and I am
00:21:13 ◼ ► But I can tell you, I think I might be misunderstanding what Steve's trying to say because I, not
00:21:19 ◼ ► always, but oftentimes I can copy something like an image and then paste it on my desktop
00:21:26 ◼ ► So I tried this with a, somebody had sent me an image in messages or perhaps I'd sent an
00:21:31 ◼ ► I don't recall, but one way or another, I copied an image in the messages app in, in macOS 26.
00:21:37 ◼ ► And then I went to my desktop and I made sure the desktop was active and then I just hit
00:21:47 ◼ ► But I do wonder if like messages, when, when an app copies something on macOS and I'm sure
00:21:51 ◼ ► on all the platforms, it puts multiple representation, representations on the pasteboard.
00:21:56 ◼ ► And then when you paste it, the thing you're pasting into can decide which one of these representations
00:22:01 ◼ ► So maybe messages, because a lot of the stuff in messages, like you also get like the download
00:22:11 ◼ ► So I do wonder if there's some temp file that is a URL for, and that when you paste it,
00:22:22 ◼ ► I don't know, I'm just speculating, but the thing this reminded me of is a thing that's
00:22:36 ◼ ► whatever, like in text from a source code file in Xcode, and then you put the input focus
00:22:41 ◼ ► on the sidebar that like lists all your files and you hit paste, you're like, what does it
00:22:57 ◼ ► So I'm going to make a file called name of that class dot Swift because it was Swift code.
00:23:03 ◼ ► So it will create a file intelligently based on the text that was that you pasted into the
00:23:30 ◼ ► But I think there might be some context where it like looks at what it is or maybe just Siri
00:23:34 ◼ ► does that where it looks at the content of it and gives it an intelligent file name, like
00:23:47 ◼ ► But I think with the advent of, you know, agentic stuff running locally or in the cloud, even
00:23:53 ◼ ► being more pervasive in all of Apple's OS is the idea of taking something that is not in
00:23:59 ◼ ► a file, just data, raw data, whether it's text, image data, whatever, and pasting it and making
00:24:04 ◼ ► a file out of that paste becomes a lot more plausible because I think the making a file
00:24:36 ◼ ► Apple is looking to acquire AI chip companies as a part of an effort to reduce its dependence
00:24:43 ◼ ► Apple's own AI server chip, internally codenamed Baltra, B-A-L-T-R-A, had been expected to ship
00:24:49 ◼ ► this year, but has been delayed, according to people said to be familiar with the project.
00:24:54 ◼ ► Apple has historically limited its acquisitions to deals in the hundreds of millions of dollars
00:25:02 ◼ ► Apple signaled a change in financial strategy during its most recent quarterly earnings call
00:25:09 ◼ ► Told analysts the company would no longer target net cash neutral status, a policy under which
00:25:17 ◼ ► Apple did not explain the reasoning behind the change, though the added flexibility could
00:25:29 ◼ ► Presumably, that is not any of the previously rumored or previously confirmed-to-be-used Ultra chips,
00:25:43 ◼ ► This makes me think that maybe they have a plan for a chip they would not ship to customers,
00:25:57 ◼ ► Once you get an actual codename, you're like, oh, this must have either been a project or
00:26:24 ◼ ► that are trying to figure out a way to make a chip that is good at doing the one very specific
00:26:44 ◼ ► And granted, they are tailoring them towards the needs of AI, but they're big and complicated.
00:26:51 ◼ ► We're not going to make a general purpose GPU that's better than what they're doing with
00:27:02 ◼ ► One of the ones that comes to mind is the wafer scale chip companies, where normally you take
00:27:08 ◼ ► like a big circular silicon wafer and you print a bunch of chips on it and then you cut
00:27:27 ◼ ► Like it's, you know, the repeated units, like just like there are in an NVIDIA GPU, just
00:27:39 ◼ ► Because every one of those little chips cost so much money because the wafer costs so much
00:27:43 ◼ ► But there's at least one company out there doing this and saying, actually, the math works
00:28:14 ◼ ► Again, Apple bought PA Semi, which I think was filled with a bunch of like ex-PowerPC people
00:28:30 ◼ ► I think they're looking for the AI equivalent of PA Semi, which is some company with really
00:28:34 ◼ ► good people and really good ideas that is currently undervalued out there in the world doing something
00:28:41 ◼ ► And presumably they would use it to make their own AI server chips so they could be, as the
00:28:47 ◼ ► Again, see the story last episode about apparently they're supposedly still going forward with their
00:28:56 ◼ ► So the dream of Apple servers is still alive in Apple, just not once they'll sell to customers.
00:29:01 ◼ ► For the record, if anyone at Apple acquisitions or whatever it's called is listening, you know,
00:29:07 ◼ ► we just, I just read that Apple has historically limited its acquisitions to deals in the hundreds
00:29:26 ◼ ► And I cut out the part where it said their biggest deal was Beats for X number of billions.
00:29:33 ◼ ► They've done a couple of pretty big deals, but yeah, they usually mostly buy lots of small
00:29:43 ◼ ► Now, with regard to chip deals, there's actually an announced chip deal from Apple itself from
00:29:53 ◼ ► On July 8th, Apple announced a new multi-year commitment with Broadcom to design and produce
00:29:57 ◼ ► custom silicon components and cutting-edge wireless connectivity technologies for a wide
00:30:02 ◼ ► The new agreement, expected to exceed $30 billion, will lead to the production of more than 15 billion
00:30:30 ◼ ► Apple is one of Broadcom's largest customers, believed to account for about 20% of its annual
00:30:36 ◼ ► Apple's been steadily bringing chip design in-house, such as with its own C1 and C1X cellular modems,
00:30:41 ◼ ► but many of Broadcom's wireless connectivity and radio frequency components remain in use.
00:30:45 ◼ ► Broadcom's chips cover custom radio frequency components, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity,
00:30:52 ◼ ► Apple and Broadcom signed a multi-billion dollar agreement in 2023 covering 5G radio frequency
00:31:05 ◼ ► oh, it's more like trying to bring manufacturing back to the United States, supporting a U.S.
00:31:13 ◼ ► It's been, it's already been like leveraged in that, and that's, I think we cut out parts
00:31:26 ◼ ► On the other hand, as MacRumors points out, isn't Apple kind of making all their own chips
00:31:42 ◼ ► And, like, isn't it, aren't they kind of, isn't Apple kind of like, yeah, we are slowly
00:31:54 ◼ ► know, in the meantime, while we're working on our own chips to replace everything Broadcom
00:31:59 ◼ ► Or, Apple has drawn some kind of line that says, we'll make the cell modem chip because
00:32:11 ◼ ► Like, maybe, I don't know, Bluetooth, or I think that Apple might have a chip that does
00:32:20 ◼ ► And so I do wonder if they're deciding, you know, whatever the Cook Doctrine of own and
00:32:33 ◼ ► Because if we don't think we're ever going to make that, let's strike a deal for the next
00:32:37 ◼ ► X years that Broadcom will sell them to us at a good price because we're 20% of their business.
00:32:43 ◼ ► But, like, the past several years has been a steady march of Apple rolling out chips with a
00:32:48 ◼ ► letter and a number in front of them and slowly replacing all the silicon in all of its devices
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00:35:08 ◼ ► Reading for The Verge in Jess Weatherbed, we now, as of June 24th, know the price of Slate
00:35:14 ◼ ► Auto's affordable American-made electric truck almost a year after the company warned it wouldn't
00:35:21 ◼ ► The no-frills pickup starts at $24,950, matching the revised mid-$20,000 price range it promised
00:35:26 ◼ ► last year after the Trump administration announced it was putting an end to the $7,500 federal
00:35:32 ◼ ► Pre-orders for the Slate Truck are live now, with production scheduled to begin in autumn of
00:35:37 ◼ ► Customers can pay a $300 non-refundable deposit within the next 30 days to lock in a delivery
00:35:45 ◼ ► Yeah, this one just dodged price increase corner because it was actually increased back
00:35:49 ◼ ► when the tax credit was ended, which was dumb, but it's one of the many dumb things happening
00:35:55 ◼ ► Anyway, pretty good on them to come in at, you know, just under $25,000 when their original
00:36:13 ◼ ► It also happens to be a truck, which is kind of dumb, but Americans love trucks, so give
00:36:40 ◼ ► Like, it's a very, very common vehicle need, and people who buy those need them to be cheap,
00:36:50 ◼ ► And that's exactly what Slate is promising, so it could be really interesting, but getting a
00:37:15 ◼ ► It is a small vehicle, and they showed it next to one of those giant $70,000, like, you
00:37:20 ◼ ► know, thing the size of a house, and they said, just pointing out, the Slate has a larger
00:37:34 ◼ ► for people who really should have a sedan or probably a minivan, but want to have a truck
00:37:40 ◼ ► And so they make this huge vehicle with a four-door cab and these terrible, uncomfortable backseats,
00:37:45 ◼ ► and they're like, oh, I guess we have to have a bed so it still looks like a pickup truck.
00:38:16 ◼ ► But lots of sort of like, it kind of reminds me of Marco's talk, uh, last episode about 3D
00:38:21 ◼ ► printing, because honestly, this entire car, the interior looks kind of like it's 3D printed.
00:38:25 ◼ ► And I'm sure people are going to be 3D printing a ton of stuff to augment the interior.
00:38:36 ◼ ► And again, you can customize the back and turn it into like an open top thing, like a Jeep
00:38:40 ◼ ► KC, where you have just a roll cage and open seats or, or like a, uh, you know, like a cap
00:38:47 ◼ ► And it comes in one color, you know, it's like the Ford Model T, you can get any color you
00:39:21 ◼ ► So speaking of car companies and, uh, older car companies in this case, uh, there was a
00:39:31 ◼ ► I didn't capture the date, but put a link in the show notes to the actual newsroom post.
00:39:40 ◼ ► upcoming universal electric vehicle or UEV platform through Apple's new map kit for automotive
00:40:04 ◼ ► They figured, why don't we wait until someone's actually going to use this before we announce
00:40:08 ◼ ► So continuing from the newsroom post coming to Ford's UEV platform in 2027, this integration
00:40:12 ◼ ► will deliver a navigation experience powered by Apple maps directly to the vehicle's displays.
00:40:17 ◼ ► Leveraging Apple's new map kit for automotive SDK, Ford's UEV platform will offer drivers
00:40:22 ◼ ► turn by turn directions using natural language, real time traffic and instant information, intuitive
00:40:26 ◼ ► search featuring detailed place cards and routing options to help users easily find the best
00:40:32 ◼ ► Additionally, Ford UEV drivers will benefit from an intelligent EV routing functionality,
00:40:41 ◼ ► All I hear about from people who are real electric vehicle nerds, and I mean that I think so far
00:40:54 ◼ ► And one of those reasons is it's very important for an electric car to precondition the battery
00:40:58 ◼ ► before it's going to get charged, it needs to know when, the navigation needs to know when
00:41:08 ◼ ► I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, if you know, but I believe that preconditioning the battery is
00:41:14 ◼ ► much more about like heat and like the temperature management of the battery to prepare it for
00:41:19 ◼ ► If you don't precondition the battery and you just pull up to a fast charger, you will still
00:41:25 ◼ ► It just might, you know, it might take a few minutes to like warm it up or, you know, whatever
00:41:30 ◼ ► So what you're doing is like, I believe what you're doing, if you don't precondition the
00:41:44 ◼ ► But that's what Casey saying people complain about is like, that's why you can't just use
00:41:55 ◼ ► entirely on, well, how fast is the charger even connecting to and what is the weather like
00:42:00 ◼ ► But their point still stands, which is there's an there's an integration with the car system
00:42:16 ◼ ► And this is a new technology that Apple has that apparently integrates with at least Ford
00:42:31 ◼ ► Additionally, Ford UAV drivers will benefit from an intelligent EV routing functionality,
00:42:37 ◼ ► Ford will also use road level information from Apple Maps as part of the development of its
00:42:41 ◼ ► next generation Blue Cruise hands-free highway driving capability to deliver a more seamless
00:43:05 ◼ ► once you have an ad revenue stream, you're only one soft quarterly projection away from
00:43:15 ◼ ► I'm sure they probably have deals with the manufacturers of what they will and won't do
00:43:27 ◼ ► If it was a company other than Apple, especially an ad company like Google, if they were doing
00:43:33 ◼ ► this, we would definitely say, well, yeah, they're probably going to have, like, ads and maps
00:43:40 ◼ ► Apple can, the way we see, the way we know Apple today, maybe the John Ternus era will change
00:43:47 ◼ ► The way we see Apple today, we cannot say for sure that they will not junk up any of their
00:44:07 ◼ ► We have already seen that they will throw the user experience out the window to juice services
00:44:14 ◼ ► Like, try using any of their apps without being an Apple One subscriber and getting everything.
00:44:19 ◼ ► You see upsells constantly for their own stuff, even beyond the ads that I was just talking
00:44:46 ◼ ► When it comes to stuff like this, if they are creating new properties within which they
00:45:02 ◼ ► The way that we what we know today with our current level of trust in Apple around this
00:45:07 ◼ ► particular topic, we have to assume that every service that can have ads in it for Apple
00:45:13 ◼ ► eventually will until and unless they show us that they have been thinking different about
00:45:23 ◼ ► And GM, like the whole reason they don't want to let Apple in is like, we want to control the
00:45:29 ◼ ► So, uh, yeah, I'm not sure Apple is any worse than letting Ford control this because you know,
00:45:43 ◼ ► I'm not going to interrogate you further because I don't think I can handle that conversation,
00:45:54 ◼ ► So, uh, continuing our new midsize electric vehicle will be priced around $30,000, said
00:46:01 ◼ ► The map kit for automotive SDK also enables automakers to deliver a cohesive navigation
00:46:05 ◼ ► experience for drivers that is consistent with the look and feel of their vehicles and provides
00:46:17 ◼ ► Apple does not collect users' location details and activity on the vehicle's map in a way
00:46:28 ◼ ► That's kind of doing a lot of work there, I think, because who knows what Ford is going
00:46:33 ◼ ► Also, uh, good for them, good for Ford for saying it'll be around $30,000 because we just
00:46:39 ◼ ► Well, I mean, there's, there's been a, uh, long and storied history of people promising
00:46:53 ◼ ► into Ford's UEV platform, CarPlay will continue to be available on Ford vehicles, providing
00:47:13 ◼ ► I very much interested to see how this looks, you know, aesthetically and how it operates.
00:47:20 ◼ ► Um, but I really hope that this is a further, uh, step in the direction, as much as I snark,
00:47:27 ◼ ► a step in the direction of Rivian and GM and Tesla, hopefully finally getting over themselves
00:47:32 ◼ ► and adding CarPlay because as a wise man once said on CaseyList.com, CarPlay is additive.
00:47:48 ◼ ► But for someone like me that pretty much demands it, that won't buy a car without it, it was
00:47:54 ◼ ► It's also nice to see that Apple maps, Apple maps come a long way since very difficult launch.
00:48:00 ◼ ► Let's say, um, uh, and these days we don't say, Oh, I can't believe Ford's putting Apple
00:48:07 ◼ ► I still think Google apps is better in certain ways, but one place that Apple has really excelled
00:48:25 ◼ ► What like that type of information is easier, at least for me to read on Apple's display than
00:48:33 ◼ ► And also a lot of the native in car mapping things that I've seen on like rental cars and
00:49:03 ◼ ► driving like 3d flying north through thing, but really just the 2d looking down like the
00:49:09 ◼ ► And sometimes Google does things better, but I, in all those tests, I always feel like Google
00:49:17 ◼ ► It's one of the reasons I use Apple maps mostly in my car, even though I think Google still
00:49:24 ◼ ► Like when I use it, you know, just when I'm going in the local area, not because I don't
00:49:29 ◼ ► know how to get there, but just because I want to know when some stupid construction is closed
00:49:35 ◼ ► That's why I have navigation on when I'm driving to places I already know how to get to in my
00:49:39 ◼ ► But it also means that when Apple maps tells me to go a certain way and I know how to get
00:49:48 ◼ ► I guess it's probably like technically shorter or faster or whatever, but there are intangibles
00:49:55 ◼ ► And I think maybe Google uses a little bit more crowdsourcing of like when most people go from
00:50:02 ◼ ► But anyway, I'm, I'm also kind of like Casey would love to see how this looks in because
00:50:07 ◼ ► they described in one section of like, oh, how it's going to like integrated into the vehicle's
00:50:35 ◼ ► I, I just, I want so badly to get a different car and we're not going to turn this into
00:50:44 ◼ ► There's nothing wrong with the car as I sit here today, but I think I'm ready for a full
00:51:00 ◼ ► I would, I would say for whatever it's worth, I, I know that, you know, BMW might be a hard
00:51:05 ◼ ► sell for you, but I think the upcoming, uh, I three, uh, is potentially very interesting.
00:51:23 ◼ ► I suspect Casey, I, as much as you love the eye for, I suspect that new eye three is going
00:51:31 ◼ ► I'm really, we, we, I want to move on because this is not an accidental neutral, but I 100%
00:51:39 ◼ ► The front is real bad, but I don't think I'm going to want to pay 80, $90,000, whatever
00:51:56 ◼ ► I don't think I'm going to be able to get into the, well, I'm, I will not choose to get into
00:52:38 ◼ ► Uh, let's talk Safari 27 and there's a post by Jeremy Keith at adactio, A-D-A-C-T-I-O.com.
00:53:01 ◼ ► Unfortunately, there is a website called archive.org and it's not that one and it's a well-known one.
00:53:14 ◼ ► Because you can see like scientific papers could be at either one because the actual archive.org
00:53:22 ◼ ► You know, I think speaking of silly, I think your pronunciation of letterboxd is silly, but I
00:53:27 ◼ ► think in this case, we need to go that route or take a page out of your playbook and it
00:53:35 ◼ ► So at adactio.com, Jeremy Keith writes the upcoming version of 27 of Safari is looking very
00:53:40 ◼ ► That's not because it's at the cutting edge of the latest web standards, quite the opposite.
00:53:55 ◼ ► We'll put a link to that in the show notes where Jen Simmons says, I hear from when web
00:54:00 ◼ ► developers, that it's challenging when you have to work around a problem in our browser
00:54:10 ◼ ► We put our focus there this year, rather than on implementing a whole lot of brand new ones.
00:54:31 ◼ ► So this was, again, the, the thrust of this WWDC session about web kit was not look at all
00:54:44 ◼ ► adapting a feature or there's some feature that we didn't implement all of or whatever this
00:55:01 ◼ ► And a lot of people watching the session and applauding, because if you're a web developer,
00:55:27 ◼ ► Because web browsers have much more diversity than iOS versions and people do not upgrade
00:55:52 ◼ ► In four years, I'll be able to put this on our website and it will make my life so much
00:56:06 ◼ ► Uh, then there was a contrarian take from Alex Russell and, uh, Alex says basically Safari
00:56:23 ◼ ► It remains a persistent issue for Safari, but how much relief should long suffering web
00:56:30 ◼ ► The best comparative measures come from the communal web platform tests project comparing
00:56:35 ◼ ► the current experimental builds with stable channel releases can illustrate the scale of
00:56:39 ◼ ► change we can expect when the next major version of each browser launches 90% is the minimum
00:56:44 ◼ ► Apple requires across all WPT tests for competitors engines in the EU and Japan, where it has been
00:57:03 ◼ ► It's hilarious by the way, that Apple's thing to make, to discourage people from using alternate
00:57:07 ◼ ► browsers, this whole browser kit thing they made like, Oh, it's for security, blah, blah,
00:57:11 ◼ ► We can't just let you run Chrome because that would be too insecure, which is probably true.
00:57:21 ◼ ► Oh, and by the way, your browser has to pass this WPT test by at least 90% because we don't
00:57:28 ◼ ► But then you look at the competitive browsers and Chrome is pushing up against 98% and Firefox
00:57:34 ◼ ► So yeah, if there's going to be another browser, if there were, if someone did actually make
00:57:39 ◼ ► an alternate browser for iOS in the EU, it would probably be based on the Chrome you mentioned
00:57:47 ◼ ► It's almost like they put it at 90% to say, well, you have to at least clear the bar that
00:57:51 ◼ ► Well, and I think this, I don't think Safari is ever going to be the browser for people
00:58:08 ◼ ► But there, there was a span in like, you know, like the mid 2000s, 2010s, like there was a
00:58:22 ◼ ► So it was very important to Apple, especially early in the Safari project, but, you know, also
00:58:28 ◼ ► It was very important to Apple for the Mac to succeed that Safari had to be really good.
00:58:55 ◼ ► You know, it was mostly when they were still mostly about the Mac, like before the iPhone
00:58:58 ◼ ► or even in the early days of the iPhone, like they were still mostly, you know, Mac and early
00:59:08 ◼ ► And now Apple is so successful that they are dictating terms to the rest of the world most
00:59:20 ◼ ► And with web standards, what that means is other people are dictating to Apple what Safari
00:59:30 ◼ ► That's just not going to play well with Apple today because Apple doesn't need to listen
00:59:46 ◼ ► A lot of modern web standards, like just because something is declared a standard doesn't mean
00:59:53 ◼ ► It also doesn't mean that the people who declared it a standard aren't doing so for reasons or
01:00:00 ◼ ► for interests that Apple might consider maybe like unfairly biased or invalid or bad ideas
01:00:07 ◼ ► So for instance, if any of these web standards have implications on device security, battery
01:00:14 ◼ ► life, or privacy, Apple's going to have possibly a different opinion on whether they're a good
01:00:23 ◼ ► Also, if any of these web standards try to bring web apps up to levels of functionality that
01:00:31 ◼ ► native apps have that Apple doesn't think web apps should have, Apple's going to have a
01:00:45 ◼ ► But also part of the reason might be they don't think it's a good idea for security or for device
01:00:52 ◼ ► And, you know, again, just because something is declared a standard doesn't mean it's a good
01:00:57 ◼ ► And it doesn't mean that Apple agrees that every standard is is necessary to implement.
01:01:02 ◼ ► You know, I've I've given my own opinions on this and I'm like, you know, podcast quote
01:01:16 ◼ ► Well, behind in what is it behind in a way that Apple agrees is the definite right inevitable
01:01:29 ◼ ► And I as somebody who converted to Chrome earlier this year, I see lots of ways that Safari can
01:01:36 ◼ ► Certainly, though, when I'm using Chrome on my laptop and I see the battery life burning
01:01:52 ◼ ► If Apple does not implement a web standard, some of that is possibly because they don't
01:02:03 ◼ ► But a lot of it could be they're actively choosing that the quote unquote standard that someone
01:02:32 ◼ ► And of course, Google's browser is going to do them because they're the ones who design
01:02:35 ◼ ► And, you know, Apple is going to not be competitive in that game if that's if that's what you're
01:02:42 ◼ ► So if what you want is the web browser that will work on the most websites possible, doing
01:02:55 ◼ ► And again, what and Safari is a great choice for different reasons and different priorities.
01:03:02 ◼ ► Well, when it comes to web standards, nobody is dictating to Apple anything because Apple
01:03:13 ◼ ► And Apple is notorious for throwing its weight around to put the kibosh on the standards that
01:03:19 ◼ ► So it's not as if these standards fall from the sky and Apple's like, oh, another standard.
01:03:31 ◼ ► Well, I think with their market share, which is the next factor, which is like, OK, Chrome is
01:03:36 ◼ ► a problem for an increasing problem for Apple as Chrome becomes so massively dominant in market
01:03:44 ◼ ► And they're just relying on these specific, you know, features and bugs that are in Chrome,
01:03:52 ◼ ► And even if Safari in the cases where Safari is do something doing something correctly, but
01:04:00 ◼ ► So there's been some posts about like, oh, Safari is the new Internet Explorer because it
01:04:05 ◼ ► But no, the one with dominant browser market share is always the Internet Explorer because
01:04:12 ◼ ► And especially as the market share becomes more and more dominant, whatever Chrome does becomes
01:04:20 ◼ ► And yes, there are web standards that they fight about or what they should implement or whatever.
01:04:23 ◼ ► But I think this, you know, the this WWC session about the features implementing is not so much
01:04:29 ◼ ► about features that Apple disagrees with that they're somehow changing your mind about it.
01:04:33 ◼ ► It's almost entirely about and that's why this Alex Russell's post is so snarky and upset
01:05:05 ◼ ► And it's like, well, Chrome, A, had a better implementation out the door and B, Chrome has
01:05:11 ◼ ► And when they found these little bugs in their implementation back in 2021, they iterated and
01:05:33 ◼ ► And actually, there was a minor revision to this standard, you know, three months later
01:05:48 ◼ ► has a 90% or whatever, those tests are always like, not only do you have to implement it,
01:05:54 ◼ ► And sometimes also in a way that doesn't like massacre performance in terms of like computational
01:06:01 ◼ ► There was a couple of things that have been on like this in the past, I forget the particular
01:06:04 ◼ ► technology might have an index DB or something, where Apple had a notoriously bad implementation
01:06:09 ◼ ► And people like there was these warnings among web developers like, yeah, they say the implement,
01:06:17 ◼ ► And there was some battle about that, about index DB versus a different standard or whatever.
01:06:20 ◼ ► But anyway, Apple in this situation, again, they throw their weight around in ways that
01:06:26 ◼ ► I don't quite understand how they have this power and some kind of bureaucratic, like however
01:06:29 ◼ ► the W3C works, because market share wise, they should barely have a say in anything market
01:06:34 ◼ ► They should they should just be out there doing like like you said, what they had to do back
01:06:37 ◼ ► when Safari was being written, which is whatever currently works on the web, we need to make
01:06:54 ◼ ► We have to make Safari do whatever they're doing, even if what they're doing is dumb or
01:07:03 ◼ ► But then it was like just, well, there's a lot of web standards and they keep coming out
01:07:14 ◼ ► And as you noted, do any of these features threaten our app store dominance by making it possible
01:07:20 ◼ ► And Apple is so weird about that because Apple did do the thing where you can put apps on
01:07:30 ◼ ► It's like, well, so clearly someone at Apple at some point thought, hey, this is a cool thing.
01:07:36 ◼ ► It's a website, but it will show up on your on your home screen on your phone like it's
01:08:12 ◼ ► She wishes she had all the money in the world and could support every web standard better than
01:08:29 ◼ ► But before the prerequisite is someone who determines what resources are going to be spent on what
01:08:41 ◼ ► If without that permission, yeah, you can try to sneak it in under the covers and it makes
01:08:52 ◼ ► So you need permission for management and resource allocation to say this year we're going to
01:08:58 ◼ ► be responsive to our customers, responsive to web developers and find out like find out
01:09:10 ◼ ► Because there's a whole bunch of features that we didn't implement or we have implemented or
01:09:25 ◼ ► What Apple wants to know is which are the features that are hurting web developers the most?
01:09:39 ◼ ► Is this Chrome which feature does Chrome have that we don't have or which feature does Chrome
01:09:44 ◼ ► Even if we're quote unquote right, they need to go back to Safari 1.0 mode and say, whatever
01:09:50 ◼ ► is Chrome, whatever Chrome is doing, we need to do exactly that because otherwise that website
01:09:55 ◼ ► It's one of the main reasons I use Chrome and it's one of the main reasons I sometimes encourage
01:10:03 ◼ ► In particular, I always say to do it on government websites, which you would think that would
01:10:07 ◼ ► be the opposite where it's like, well, government, don't they have to support all these web browsers?
01:10:17 ◼ ► So if you're having any, the jankier the website is and it's not working in Safari, try it in
01:10:27 ◼ ► So, you know, I feel for the Safari team because I know the people who are working, actually
01:10:31 ◼ ► working on Safari and WebKit are a hundred percent aligned on everything that Alex is complaining
01:10:38 ◼ ► Like it's great that they get to work at Apple, but I'm sure they argue internally all the time.
01:10:46 ◼ ► And then I don't understand whatever shadowy cabal is that the W3C arguing against the features
01:10:53 ◼ ► Again, sometimes for good reasons about privacy and, you know, battery life or whatever, but
01:11:05 ◼ ► Sometimes someday there'll be a tell all book, but I think there's a lot of people at Apple
01:11:29 ◼ ► but it was clearly someone who is very angry about Apple wanting to continue to be angry
01:11:39 ◼ ► You cannot imagine the anger because it would just stop you from doing anything good on
01:11:49 ◼ ► And this feature is 10 years old and Apple was totally in favor of it and touted it when
01:12:13 ◼ ► There is a blog post over at webkit.org where Saren Yitbarek from Apple writes, in Safari
01:12:20 ◼ ► Technology Preview 247, we're introducing the Safari MCP server, a model context protocol server
01:12:28 ◼ ► The Safari MCP server gives your agent the ability to know how your code actually renders in the
01:12:39 ◼ ► By connecting your agent to a Safari browser window, your agent can emulate what your users
01:12:43 ◼ ► experience, giving it the information it needs to debug more autonomously, like access to
01:12:50 ◼ ► It speeds up your debugging process and lets you stay in the comfort of your terminal, which
01:13:04 ◼ ► If AI is part of your workflow, we think this tool will help make it even more productive.
01:13:09 ◼ ► If you end up giving it a try, or if this is your first time using an MCP server, let us
01:13:35 ◼ ► So I like that part at the end where it's like, you know, MCP, it's for, you know, agents,
01:13:40 ◼ ► MCP basically like exposes the functionality of your application in a programmatic way using
01:13:47 ◼ ► the standards so that agents can essentially puppeteer your app to make it do something.
01:13:56 ◼ ► We added MCP, you know, because we think if you use AI, if AI is part of your workflow,
01:14:01 ◼ ► And if it isn't, that's okay, too, because they don't want to be like, look, we were forcing
01:14:22 ◼ ► But on the flip side of this, this is really like if you're doing web development with some
01:14:27 ◼ ► kind of agent, very often the agent will be like, okay, there's a million libraries for
01:14:32 ◼ ► various languages that will essentially make a headless Chrome using the Chromium, open
01:14:36 ◼ ► And, you know, a headless Chrome, I can run on doing web development, which is HTML, CSS,
01:14:43 ◼ ► And I can all run all of that headless with this headless Chrome thing so that I can actually
01:14:48 ◼ ► execute the page where the JavaScript will execute and there'll be a DOM, you know, like
01:14:55 ◼ ► The next level up from that is, okay, but what if I could control your actual web browser?
01:15:14 ◼ ► And the reason that's important is because in the absence of this, you're just perpetuating
01:15:19 ◼ ► the cycle where someone using a coding agent and they're making a website and the coding
01:15:25 ◼ ► And it's got unit tests and it's got integration tests and it's got end-to-end tests where it
01:15:33 ◼ ► And someone goes to your website for the first time and they go, oh, your website didn't work.
01:15:48 ◼ ► And if they never test in Safari, I mean, this is the same exact problem that humans had where
01:16:04 ◼ ► And so Apple's out there going, please, please, agents and developers, we've made an MCP for
01:16:17 ◼ ► And, you know, if someone writes in their problem description, and by the way, this website should
01:16:21 ◼ ► not only work in Chrome, then maybe the agent will be like, oh, I see you have a Safari MCP
01:16:46 ◼ ► Finally, Federico writes, with regard to this, I asked Codex about comparing Safari's MCP to
01:16:54 ◼ ► The verdict, although Chrome has a richer API with Chrome DevTools when it comes to network
01:16:58 ◼ ► requests, Codex actually preferred Apple's leaner, more direct approach for letting an agent
01:17:09 ◼ ► But yes, you can ask them to show you the pros and cons in the feature lists and so on and
01:17:13 ◼ ► But all this is showing that Apple is apparently, you know, again, putting in a good effort and
01:17:19 ◼ ► And it's just a question of, you know, who will adopt these tools we are laying out before
01:17:36 ◼ ► Hey, so we don't have a whole bunch of ads this week and we thought we'd take a moment to talk
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01:18:05 ◼ ► And that's where we do some topics that just keep sliding down the show notes or we just
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01:19:38 ◼ ► And Pete Ottery writes, Marco, can you share how the reception of transcription in Overcast
01:20:25 ◼ ► I thought I had said something publicly, but let me double down on it or reiterate or whatever
01:20:29 ◼ ► I really love the music notes because a lot of times there'll be, you know, musical beds
01:20:41 ◼ ► The other thing that surprised me that I really like about transcriptions is a lot of times when
01:20:46 ◼ ► I'm getting ready for bed and I'm not like having a conversation with anyone because I'm
01:20:51 ◼ ► I'll pop in an air pod and I use a motorized electric, whatever you want to call it, toothbrush.
01:20:55 ◼ ► And even with an air pod in, unless I make it absurdly loud, it's a little difficult for me to
01:21:00 ◼ ► tell precisely what people are saying because I listen at like 1.7 X or something like that.
01:21:04 ◼ ► However, if I have the transcription running and I'm vaguely looking at it as I'm brushing my
01:21:10 ◼ ► teeth or what have you, it makes it so much easier for my brain to put together what the heck
01:21:15 ◼ ► people are saying. And so I don't have to blare my air pods or air pod. Oftentimes I'm running mono
01:21:20 ◼ ► at that point. I don't have to blare it and I can actually follow along with the conversation at the
01:21:24 ◼ ► speed in which I want to follow along with it. So for me personally, a triple plus would, would use
01:21:29 ◼ ► again. Thank you. 1.7 X. Yeah, that's actually, I was, I took note of that as well. That's actually
01:21:34 ◼ ► faster than I would have guessed. That's a little, that's a little fast. It took a long, long time for me
01:21:40 ◼ ► to get to that point. Yeah. I will like the, I think the fastest show that I run is about 1.6.
01:21:45 ◼ ► but my usual speed for most shows is like 1.1 or 1.2 depending on the show. I just listen to too
01:21:51 ◼ ► many darn podcasts is the problem. I'm over here down in the slowness. Uh, Werner Vingy, I think.
01:21:56 ◼ ► Anyway, um, I'm at 1X. Uh, the only thing I do at more than 1X is WWC videos because Apple's
01:22:03 ◼ ► presentation style makes those people talk so slowly and deliberately that I go 1.25 for all
01:22:12 ◼ ► WWC videos. Yeah, I'm, I'm 1.5 on most of this. Um, so transcription, uh, Casey, I, I think you nailed
01:22:19 ◼ ► the, the biggest use cases that I use it for. Um, basically skimming a show. So that's like,
01:22:27 ◼ ► for me, whenever there is part of a show that I'm trying to skip past, usually it's an ad. Like
01:22:33 ◼ ► if you listen to any big shows, like from big publishers where the ads are all just DAI,
01:22:39 ◼ ► you're basically just hearing radio commercials stuck into podcasts. Like it isn't even, they're
01:22:43 ◼ ► not even a host read. They're just like, here's another ad for ice tea and T-Mobile. Like, Oh God.
01:22:49 ◼ ► So I listened to a few shows that do that. And so it's very easy for me to swipe over the,
01:22:56 ◼ ► the transcript and scroll to the end using the music notes or my little cut icons or a combination
01:23:02 ◼ ► of both. And I can quickly look at the text and say, Oh, tap right there. And boom, I'm right at
01:23:07 ◼ ► the, at the segment, sort of the next segment. I also will occasionally use this even for shows that I,
01:23:11 ◼ ► that I'm not skipping an ad for that. I just kind of want to skip a topic and they don't have chapters
01:23:15 ◼ ► or if they're, if I'm trying to skip part of a chapter, like I don't care about baseball,
01:23:22 ◼ ► I find that the transcripts are a much easier, faster, and better way to skim past something in
01:23:30 ◼ ► a podcast or to find something in a podcast. Or if I, if I have a podcast playing and I realize,
01:23:36 ◼ ► Oh, I zoned out for the last couple of minutes because maybe I was, maybe I was distracted by
01:23:40 ◼ ► something else. I don't want to go back. I will, I will often use the transcript to skim back
01:23:45 ◼ ► to see what did I just miss. And that more, it helps me more easily find the place that I want
01:23:50 ◼ ► to go back to, or to skim back and see what I did just miss. And maybe I don't have to go back.
01:23:54 ◼ ► So generally speaking, transcripts for me are an assisting technology for skimming through different
01:24:02 ◼ ► parts of a podcast, usually skipping past things I don't want to hear, but even sometimes going back
01:24:06 ◼ ► and seeing what I did just here. And because that's the role of them for me, they work very well,
01:24:12 ◼ ► even though that like from a, from an accuracy point of view, they're still pretty bad, but
01:24:17 ◼ ► for what I'm using the transcript for the accuracy almost doesn't matter at all. Cause I'm not
01:24:24 ◼ ► reading it as a replacement for listening to it. I'm just kind of, I'm using it as a visual
01:24:29 ◼ ► like cue to skim around in it. And now that I'm accustomed to skimming around in a podcast that way,
01:24:36 ◼ ► when I, when I have to like skip it by just the audio skipping, I feel like I'm, I'm a caveman. I'm
01:24:43 ◼ ► like, what, this is the most primitive, awful tool to skip around a podcast using seat controls and
01:24:48 ◼ ► audio. Like now that I'm accustomed to the transcript. So it's, it's painful. Like in when I'm in the car
01:24:53 ◼ ► and I have to like skip around cause I don't have the transcript in the car and that's,
01:24:57 ◼ ► Oh, that's, that's tough. But, uh, but that's, that's the, the use that I find for them is skimming
01:25:03 ◼ ► and from the feedback from people, it's actually, I don't get a lot of feedback about it to be honest,
01:25:07 ◼ ► but the feedback that the little feedback that I do get is pretty positive. That being said,
01:25:12 ◼ ► I think part of why I don't get a lot of feedback is that it is kind of buried in the UI and I don't
01:25:18 ◼ ► know, I don't have any firm plans around this yet. So I don't want to guarantee anything, but at some
01:25:24 ◼ ► point I would like to explore integrating the transcript better into the now playing UI. Like
01:25:30 ◼ ► what I was just saying about how basic seat controls now feel primitive to me. I think there might be
01:25:42 ◼ ► I think the even easier solution there is all these, you know, Instagram reels and TikToks or
01:25:48 ◼ ► whatever, just do the thing where whatever is currently being spoken is shown in little text
01:25:53 ◼ ► that goes to, sometimes they do one word at a time. I'm sure you've all seen them. Like you,
01:25:56 ◼ ► the reason you can watch a reel with your phone muted is because they show the transcript one or two
01:26:00 ◼ ► words at a time with the current word being bold. And sometimes the transcription is not accurate,
01:26:07 ◼ ► essentially the quote unquote now playing screen for whatever short form video you're watching.
01:26:12 ◼ ► So I can imagine a now playing screen in overcast that when I hit play, if I were to glance at it,
01:26:17 ◼ ► I would see the words being spoken flashing two or three words at a time, just constantly underneath
01:26:21 ◼ ► the thing. And if I were to tap on those words, it would take me to the full transcript.
01:26:25 ◼ ► Um, that's, that's just one possibility, but I know what you're saying about seeking in terms
01:26:28 ◼ ► of like, can I get a textual, a visual textual search for seeking instead of the essentially
01:26:33 ◼ ► modeled after, you know, CD players or whatever back forward, you know, skip or whatever buttons
01:26:39 ◼ ► that sounds more ambitious to me than the much simpler one of, uh, just essentially show me the
01:26:45 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean, and the close, that's the way I originally envisioned the UI for this was I w I just
01:26:51 ◼ ► wanted to put a CC, you know, closed caption button on the main screen and you would tap
01:26:56 ◼ ► it and it would stick it over the artwork. I didn't end up doing that for no good reason.
01:27:00 ◼ ► Um, I don't, I don't know why I didn't do that. Um, but that was how I was envisioning this
01:27:05 ◼ ► feature for, for many years. Um, but yeah, I do think that like, yeah, those, those CD player
01:27:11 ◼ ► style controls, we haven't rethought those in a long time. And now that we have this technology
01:27:17 ◼ ► that is way better for skimming through a file, maybe that deserves some rethinking, but that
01:27:25 ◼ ► Well, speaking of not down the road, I hope you mentioned using the, uh, transcript to you
01:27:29 ◼ ► for skimming and for skipping over stuff and going back to where you left off. But you also
01:27:33 ◼ ► mentioned finding things. And every time I go to that screen, I'm like, where's the search
01:27:42 ◼ ► One thing I want to explore with that, um, is, you know, right. All of the search I have
01:27:48 ◼ ► in the app so far is basically old style search. It's like, you know, SQLite FTS, you know, full
01:27:55 ◼ ► text search. It's keyword based, you know, very loosely phrase based. Maybe, um, I'm curious
01:28:02 ◼ ► to explore like the, the on-device foundation model stuff for AI based search basically of like,
01:28:08 ◼ ► now we have better search algorithms that can take things much more abstractly. Like what episode
01:28:15 ◼ ► did John talk about? So-and-so like, you know, like that, that kind of search. I think, I think
01:28:22 ◼ ► They probably do. But also I just want actual text search within the one transcript that I'm
01:28:29 ◼ ► Well, the, the, so my challenge with that though, is the accuracy is not very good. So it might not
01:28:41 ◼ ► I just, I just want a fighting chance. I can try the three different words that it might
01:28:46 ◼ ► be misinterpreted as. I just want to find within the thing. It just, it kills me. It kills me all
01:28:51 ◼ ► the time. Cause I'm like, cause then I do what you're doing, which is like, okay, well the alternative
01:28:54 ◼ ► is how well does my brain work? How fast can I scroll this? Skim, skim, skim, skim. And you're
01:29:00 ◼ ► hoping the, like the, the unconscious part of your brain is going to spot the word Mac pro
01:29:04 ◼ ► in the thing to find the section. And usually it does, but it's like, we have the technology.
01:29:09 ◼ ► We can type MAC space PRO and hope that the transcription worked. And you know, for most
01:29:14 ◼ ► of the times I'm looking for, it does. I didn't complain too much about this at 1.0, but as time
01:29:18 ◼ ► progresses, I'm like, where's my search box? Where's my search box? All the stuff you're
01:29:21 ◼ ► talking about is awesome. Great. Good ideas. I agree. It's harder than this. This is just
01:29:25 ◼ ► literal plain text, substring, no regular expression search. Maybe I'm the only one who
01:29:29 ◼ ► would use it, but when I want it to be there and I find myself resorting to skimming, I do
01:29:33 ◼ ► feel like the caveman you described. Now, don't you all wish you could lobby for your favorite
01:29:43 ◼ ► Oh yeah. All right. Let's move on to our second question. Elijah writes a year ago, John posited
01:29:50 ◼ ► that Apple could under new leadership pursue quote growth the hard way with the Neo Apple
01:29:56 ◼ ► is indeed pursuing Mac growth, but John's Apple turnaround article or post focused on growing
01:30:01 ◼ ► the iPhone ATP six 89 now acknowledged quote, they've been trying to Neo the phone like crazy,
01:30:08 ◼ ► but it's hard to Neo alternatively in ATP number 641. We asked Apple to consider quote, why did
01:30:15 ◼ ► that person choose a Samsung galaxy? Do they have a different feature set? So Elijah says, what
01:30:20 ◼ ► strategy sees Apple winning over Android users, a privacy screen, DX style desktop mode, replaceable
01:30:26 ◼ ► batteries, the current feature set, crash detection, satellite connectivity, find my, et cetera. It
01:30:29 ◼ ► doesn't seem to be doing the trick, nor did the pre Neo $430 iPhone SE. What do you think,
01:30:36 ◼ ► John? Tech nerds who are listening to this episode and tech nerds in general, uh, who are interested
01:30:41 ◼ ► in iOS versus Android or are always like, uh, the, the feature that I love about Android is what iOS
01:30:49 ◼ ► would need to add to win me over there. And the feature is always some nerdy customizable thing
01:30:53 ◼ ► that most Android users don't use. And so even though that's what they want, you know, like, Oh,
01:30:58 ◼ ► some, you know, replaceable batteries or some feature like the privacy screen is obscure or
01:31:01 ◼ ► better configurability or the ability to customize this one thing that I care about. Those are
01:31:06 ◼ ► advantages of Android. And it's why people who want that stick with Android, but it would be,
01:31:11 ◼ ► I would not recommend Apple pursue that strategy to get Android people over because you, all you would get
01:31:16 ◼ ► is that tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of Android users who love that stuff. And honestly, you're
01:31:21 ◼ ► never going to satisfy them because they want, they always want more like they're the Android power
01:31:25 ◼ ► users. Right. Um, but Android is huge and people, you know, half the world buys Android phones and
01:31:32 ◼ ► it's not because of all those things that nerds care about. So really I feel like is essentially
01:31:35 ◼ ► they have to Neo it. They have to do what they did with the Neo, which is like, what's the barrier to
01:31:39 ◼ ► entry? Number one has got to be price. Make a, a phone that is cheaper, but feels expensive.
01:31:46 ◼ ► And Apple's been trying and whatever, for whatever reason, all their various SE phones. And you know,
01:31:51 ◼ ► from, from the five C on Apple has been trying to say, here's an iPhone. It feels like an iPhone. It
01:31:57 ◼ ► looks like an iPhone. It's got the cache of an iPhone. You're going to love it as much. Everyone
01:32:00 ◼ ► who loves an iPhone loves it, but it's so much cheaper that it suddenly enters a price range that
01:32:06 ◼ ► Apple wasn't really competing in before. Now setting aside the price increases with the RAM
01:32:10 ◼ ► and storage apocalypse and all the other stuff, the Neo really was their first, uh, revisiting of
01:32:17 ◼ ► the strategy of, you know, maybe we could sell more Macs if we figured out what people who aren't buying
01:32:23 ◼ ► Macs are complaining about it. And the number one complaint I'm sure was Macs are too expensive
01:32:27 ◼ ► and they did it somehow amazingly without making a Mac that is crappy because the Neo is not crappy.
01:32:35 ◼ ► that's proved hard on the phone. The phone. I just, you know, I think the phone, the margins
01:32:39 ◼ ► are actually probably higher on the phone, but for whatever reason, they haven't figured out the
01:32:43 ◼ ► right formula. Maybe they're afraid on the phone of like cannibalizing because they've, they make a
01:32:47 ◼ ► really good one. They'll cannibalize the other phone sales. Cause unlike the Mac where like people
01:32:51 ◼ ► who are buying the more expensive Macs, like they might not be well-served by a Neo. If you need a
01:32:57 ◼ ► MacBook pro, the Neo is probably not going to get you to switch. Oh, it's so much cheaper. Yeah. But like
01:33:02 ◼ ► it's, it's significantly less powerful and maybe who knows, maybe the Neo is cutting into their,
01:33:06 ◼ ► the sales of the, what were previously the lowest price things like the MacBook air and stuff. But
01:33:10 ◼ ► we'll see what Apple has to say about that, which is probably nothing. And we probably won't be able
01:33:14 ◼ ► to into it from their sales, but still that is a danger. And in the phone in particular,
01:33:23 ◼ ► the RAM and storage and multiple CPUs and local AI, like there's just not a lot of room for
01:33:29 ◼ ► variation in a device that's this small with, with the battery constrained to be what it is. Whereas
01:33:34 ◼ ► laptops at least can get bigger and thicker and desktops can go above that. So, uh, yeah, I think
01:33:39 ◼ ► it is a thing they should continue to try to do. Uh, but I think the, uh, the strategy is to do like
01:33:45 ◼ ► literally what they did with the Neo and not do the thing that every Android nerd listening to ATP
01:33:49 ◼ ► wishes they would do because I'm not saying that it's bad that Android people like that. I'm saying
01:33:57 ◼ ► they would shift market share by like 1%. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, if you look at
01:34:04 ◼ ► why most Android users chose Android, it's almost always about price, especially as you, you know,
01:34:11 ◼ ► if you leave like the super rich countries like the U S and you go other places, like it's even more
01:34:16 ◼ ► about the price. Um, but that's a huge part of it. Like there, there is no significant nerd power
01:34:22 ◼ ► user market. That's choosing Android for, for its nerd power user features like that. For Apple,
01:34:28 ◼ ► that's not significant enough to worth address to be, to be worth addressing at all. If those of you out
01:34:32 ◼ ► there who are in that market and who are yelling right now, I don't have to say there's that there
01:34:36 ◼ ► aren't any of you, but that's not going to make a dent in Apple's numbers. And even the form factor
01:34:41 ◼ ► argument, which is always like, Oh, but Android has this so much more variety. You can get a big
01:34:45 ◼ ► and small and foldable and this and that. And it's like, if only Apple offered more variety,
01:34:48 ◼ ► but like, I think it is secondary. Like you said, Marco, someone's going in there. Like,
01:34:53 ◼ ► I don't want to pay a lot for this phone. And then now when I've decided this is my price range,
01:34:57 ◼ ► Oh, there's a big one and a small one and a folding one. That's nice. But if there wasn't a big
01:35:01 ◼ ► one, a small one, a folding one, they wouldn't say, Oh, now I'm going to look at Apple for twice the
01:35:04 ◼ ► price. No, they would still, they would take whatever they could get. So it is nice that there's more
01:35:08 ◼ ► variety. But first of all, I think Apple has been doing a great job of increasing the variety in the
01:35:14 ◼ ► iPhone line recently. And they're going to do it again with a foldable one soon. So watch out for
01:35:18 ◼ ► that. And maybe the 20th anniversary one, like not that they're one company is never going to give you
01:35:22 ◼ ► all the diversity of the Android space. But for a long time, there was one iPhone and then there was
01:35:27 ◼ ► a couple of them and they were all very similar, just different sizes. And they really have blossomed
01:35:31 ◼ ► lately with the air and even the mini and the foldable one. And, you know, like, I think they're doing a
01:35:36 ◼ ► pretty good job and they could extend that a little bit as long as they're making sure that
01:35:39 ◼ ► they like, you know, when they didn't have a big phone, that was a problem. But I think they're
01:35:43 ◼ ► covering a lot of those bases. But I do think the massive variety in Android only becomes the decision
01:35:52 ◼ ► And even then, like when you look at what most people like, what most Android users are using
01:35:57 ◼ ► looks like, you know, a mid-sized phone, just like Apple's phones. Like it isn't the form factor
01:36:03 ◼ ► that is that is making people choose it. It's almost always price. How would Apple possibly
01:36:09 ◼ ► address that the low price market? And they I think they are addressing it down to the level
01:36:15 ◼ ► they are willing to address it. But or able because like cameras are expensive, you know,
01:36:20 ◼ ► like the screens are expensive. It's tough, right? Like when when people talk about Android having,
01:36:25 ◼ ► you know, worldwide, whatever it is, like 75 percent, whatever the worldwide market share is,
01:36:28 ◼ ► that's not a bunch of people using flagship Samsung and Google phones. It's a whole bunch of people
01:36:34 ◼ ► using some like very inexpensive phones with very inexpensive components that are nowhere near the
01:36:39 ◼ ► cutting edge of what the high end stuff and pretty much every iPhone is offering. That's a market that
01:36:44 ◼ ► I don't think Apple wants to address because the the compromises it would take to address it from
01:36:51 ◼ ► Apple's point of view would be so vast. I don't think they're in it. I think that I think Apple is very happy
01:36:58 ◼ ► taking the percentage of profit in the cell phone industry that they do. Now, that was very different from
01:37:04 ◼ ► the Mac. Like the reason the MacBook Neo made so much something to do is that Apple's share of the PC laptop
01:37:12 ◼ ► market was way lower than their current share of the smartphone market. And I think they must have seen
01:37:19 ◼ ► that as something that like from Apple's point of view, the Neo is not very compromised. They really did a
01:37:25 ◼ ► very like they they really kind of nailed like what can we make for a significantly lower price than our other
01:37:31 ◼ ► stuff that we can still feel proud of. And you look at the Neo like it's cool. I don't think Apple could make
01:37:38 ◼ ► anything that would be a Neo version of the iPhone that would be like half the price of iPhones today,
01:37:46 ◼ ► but still using new components. The Neo that the MacBook Neo, they really had that opportunity because
01:37:52 ◼ ► it was a totally different market. They had totally different trade offs they could make that would save
01:37:56 ◼ ► a huge amount of costs without making what they view as a crappy product. I think to go back to the
01:38:03 ◼ ► question of like, you know, how do you entice Android users? Uh, John stole one of my answers,
01:38:08 ◼ ► which was different form factors. You know, do you want a foldable phone? Well, you can't have a
01:38:12 ◼ ► foldable iPhone. Not yet. Anyway. Um, the only other thing I can think of, which I will be the first to say
01:38:17 ◼ ► is extremely esoteric and nerdy. And I get that and I acknowledge it, but I was trying to think about
01:38:23 ◼ ► like, what would I, what did I covet in the past that Android could do that iPhones couldn't? And the only
01:38:29 ◼ ► thing I could think of is that it is possible, or at least last I heard, it is possible to have like
01:38:36 ◼ ► a TSR in DOS speak. You could have a, a app that has a component that, that still runs, even if the
01:38:43 ◼ ► app isn't running in iPhones and iOS has actually gotten much better about this over time. There's
01:38:48 ◼ ► very few use cases that I can think of that you can't make work with iPhone software today with,
01:38:55 ◼ ► iOS software today or apps today, but that's the only thing that I always thought, man, that would
01:39:00 ◼ ► be cool. Now you, the, the question you should ask me is, well, why would that be cool? Casey? And I've
01:39:05 ◼ ► got no good answer, but that's the only software trick that I can think of that. I knew Android
01:39:10 ◼ ► thing, Android phones could do that, that iPhones can't. And I don't even know why that would be
01:39:15 ◼ ► useful, but I feel like it would be useful, but that's it. And there are some like amazing,
01:39:20 ◼ ► fun capabilities that Android phones have that people love a lot that Apple's just not going
01:39:24 ◼ ► to do. Like, you know, some of the ways that Google's integrating, um, like some of their AI features and
01:39:29 ◼ ► everything, like the ways things like widgets work, like there, there are just some fundamental
01:39:33 ◼ ► differences that people, that many people do just prefer on Android, you know, especially if you're,
01:39:39 ◼ ► if you're heavily into the Google ecosystem, like there's a lot of good reasons for that,
01:39:42 ◼ ► but Apple's never going to make those kinds of changes because that's just not what iOS is.
01:39:47 ◼ ► It isn't how iOS works. It isn't Apple style. It isn't iOS style. So they're never going to win
01:39:51 ◼ ► over those people. But again, like those people, I, I don't think Apple has a chance of winning them
01:39:56 ◼ ► over no matter what Apple does. Cause that's, that's not what those people are looking for.
01:40:00 ◼ ► So instead, if Apple were to focus on growing the iPhone market significantly, it would basically
01:40:05 ◼ ► entirely need to be about price. And again, we, as we talked about, like, I don't think,
01:40:14 ◼ ► something that Apple wants to sell. And we can get to that. It's just because phones are still
01:40:18 ◼ ► kind of cutting edge. Like we're still in the phase where like everyone can essentially make
01:40:22 ◼ ► their phones a little bit better every year, even if it's only just like slightly better screen
01:40:25 ◼ ► technology, slightly better cameras, slightly better, uh, you know, uh, battery life or whatever.
01:40:35 ◼ ► still like getting better. Like I think everyone, whatever the economic turn, it was like this,
01:40:40 ◼ ► the phones are not, haven't completely satisfied the market because everyone has the complaints
01:40:44 ◼ ► like, Oh, my phone died. I wish everyone would love their bat, their phone to be a little bit
01:40:47 ◼ ► lighter for the battery to last a little bit longer for the screen to be a little bit brighter and for
01:40:51 ◼ ► it never to be slow. We're not quite there yet. Whereas with laptops, uh, especially before the
01:40:56 ◼ ► dawn of local AI, which most people are still at this point, not really using it, it does web
01:41:01 ◼ ► browsing. You can run a spreadsheet, you can watch a movie on it. It's everything is fine. Like,
01:41:05 ◼ ► and even the battery life has gotten pretty amazing. So they're, but laptops are closer,
01:41:08 ◼ ► closer to satisfying. And as laptops approach that kind of like, well, we're, we're starting to be
01:41:14 ◼ ► able to satisfy most people's needs. It created this section of the curve where it's like, well,
01:41:20 ◼ ► you can make a laptop with a phone chip and most people will find it extremely satisfactory.
01:41:24 ◼ ► We might get there with phones with advances in technology and solid state batteries and so on
01:41:28 ◼ ► and so forth. Or eventually the flagship phones are so good that you see this little section
01:41:32 ◼ ► underneath. It's like, you know, we can make a phone for half the price that most people would
01:41:37 ◼ ► find entirely satisfactory. We're just not there tech wise with phones because they are so miniaturized
01:41:42 ◼ ► and so demanding and they're on the cell network and we use them all day. Like they're, they are not
01:41:48 ◼ ► quite yet completely fulfilling all of our needs. We're still advancing on them. It's, it's just,
01:41:53 ◼ ► it's, it's just a younger product, right? We couldn't make these kinds of phones at all.
01:41:57 ◼ ► Not too long ago, whereas the laptop has been around much longer. So watch for that. This is not a
01:42:01 ◼ ► thing that is unchangeable forever. Maybe sometime in our lifetime, technology will exist to make a
01:42:08 ◼ ► phone that is satisfying in the way that the Neo is satisfying, uh, for significantly less money.
01:42:17 ◼ ► All righty. And then finally for ask ATP in the past, you have mentioned that it is recommended that
01:42:24 ◼ ► you create a separate Apple account for doing development. My question is, how does one go about
01:42:28 ◼ ► doing this? When I go to sign up for a new account, I'm required to provide an email address and phone
01:42:32 ◼ ► number. My phone is already linked to my existing Apple account. So it is not valid. I asked at the
01:42:36 ◼ ► Apple store and they didn't know I hit up the Apple support app and it says it's Apple's policy for every
01:42:40 ◼ ► Apple account to be linked to a phone number for quote security and recoverability quote. How does one go
01:42:44 ◼ ► about actually creating a separate account apart from inventing a time machine to go back in time
01:42:47 ◼ ► before you were required and associated phone number? I don't have any good answer for this. I genuinely am
01:42:54 ◼ ► not sure. Well, let's revisit the premise here, which is, uh, creating a separate Apple account for
01:42:58 ◼ ► doing development there. I think a lot of the reasons the particular people of our age and our circles
01:43:04 ◼ ► do this is because we have a time machine, which is called being old. And we had Apple IDs a long time
01:43:11 ◼ ► ago. Uh, a lot of us have Apple IDs that were not email addresses. My Apple original Apple ID was not
01:43:17 ◼ ► an email address. It was just a username with no at sign in it whatsoever. Uh, eventually Apple made us
01:43:22 ◼ ► change all those to email addresses. But because we had that from way back in the day later when the
01:43:28 ◼ ► Apple ID system was, you know, becoming more advanced, you could create an Apple ID with your phone number
01:43:33 ◼ ► because you had whatever your cell phone number and your old Apple ID that maybe didn't even have a
01:43:37 ◼ ► phone number. Maybe you had your home phone number or something. It was like, it was just still there.
01:43:40 ◼ ► So now you had two Apple IDs and a lot of us in that situation with two Apple IDs made the decision
01:43:46 ◼ ► that we're going to do development on one and the other one will be like our home thing or whatever.
01:43:50 ◼ ► So, and then we, then it's kind of like a, you know, back solving and say, well, since I had two
01:43:53 ◼ ► of them, I decided to use one for that or whatever. But setting that aside, the reason someone might
01:43:57 ◼ ► still want to do this today, in my opinion, and maybe you two have different opinions, uh, is that
01:44:02 ◼ ► the account for your apps is so fraught because you never know what the heck Apple's going to do
01:44:10 ◼ ► related to the app store that you kind of want to isolate the evil to, and I know Apple did all this
01:44:16 ◼ ► stuff behind the scenes now to say, oh, you think that's a separate app already, but we know you're
01:44:20 ◼ ► the same person using both of them. So this is not foolproof, but it's just one extra layer of defense
01:44:24 ◼ ► where someday they wake up and decide your app is banned. And in fact, it's banned so hard that your
01:44:30 ◼ ► whole Apple ID is banned. Then that won't destroy all your iTunes, the movies you bought on iTunes or
01:44:35 ◼ ► whatever, like the separating your personal from your business in general is a good practice.
01:44:40 ◼ ► Uh, and that's why I still recommend to people that I say, look, I'm not going to lie to you. It's
01:44:45 ◼ ► going to be a hassle. Juggling two Apple IDs is a hassle, especially since Apple still does not let
01:44:49 ◼ ► you log in with a passkey with the second Apple ID that you're not going to join your Mac. Please,
01:44:52 ◼ ► somebody fix that. Um, it's going to be a hassle, but it having that separation is nice because I would
01:44:58 ◼ ► never want like my family photo library, everything I've ever bought from Apple, all of my various iCloud
01:45:05 ◼ ► sync notes and stuff, my family plan, blah, blah, blah, that we're in a family, blah, blah, blah,
01:45:09 ◼ ► personal Apple ID. And then my apps developer Apple ID. The only thing that developer Apple ID does is log
01:45:17 ◼ ► into App Store Connect and, you know, register for WWDC and do all that stuff. Is that separation really
01:45:23 ◼ ► saving me? Apple knows that I have both of these accounts. If they banned it and wanted to ban it so hard,
01:45:27 ◼ ► they would probably ban my other one too, but I'm hoping that it provides a little bit of
01:45:30 ◼ ► compartmentalization. So that's why I do it. That's my opinion on why a second Apple ID might
01:45:34 ◼ ► be useful before we get into how you make one. What do you guys think of that? Do you have two Apple
01:45:38 ◼ ► IDs? Do you think it's a good idea? Well, there's a huge other reason to do it, which is if you have
01:45:43 ◼ ► a company entity to put it on, to tie it to. Oh, that's right. Yes. Marco coming with this one for
01:45:47 ◼ ► sure. Yeah. So, um, if you are developing apps under your own personal name, um, then that's fine.
01:45:54 ◼ ► Uh, but it's very commonplace in the U S at least, I don't know how other countries work,
01:45:58 ◼ ► but in the U S it's very commonplace for people to do their side businesses or main businesses in
01:46:09 ◼ ► corporation, like what, you know, something like that. This is how I've always done my businesses.
01:46:13 ◼ ► They've always been in LLCs. This makes a lot of things a lot easier, but if you have a company that
01:46:19 ◼ ► you are developing the apps under, and you want to be taxed through that LLC or whatever
01:46:23 ◼ ► it is, you're going to need a, a company account, a company, Apple ID and a company developer account.
01:46:29 ◼ ► If you ever intend to make any money from it, obviously talk to your, talk to an accountant
01:46:34 ◼ ► or whatever, but like having an LLC in the U S is not that hard, not that expensive and not that
01:46:39 ◼ ► difficult for tax, you know, stuff. So that's generally what many people do and what I recommend.
01:46:44 ◼ ► But anyway, in that case, you can't use your personal Apple ID. You have to have a second
01:46:49 ◼ ► Apple ID for the LLC or whatever. That's why you would do it. Um, as to what the people at the Apple
01:46:56 ◼ ► store and Apple support app said, uh, they don't know they're delightful. They mean, well, they can't
01:47:01 ◼ ► answer questions like this. Like this is not within their expertise. They kind of esoteric. Although
01:47:07 ◼ ► before you go on, there's one point that you, I thought you were going to make that you didn't,
01:47:10 ◼ ► which is, Hey, guess what? If you ever want to sell one of your apps, well, a lot easier when
01:47:16 ◼ ► it's confined to its own Apple ID with the whole, like you've done this more than, uh, you know, I've
01:47:20 ◼ ► never done this at all, but I've heard you talk about it. Like, I think that makes that easier as
01:47:23 ◼ ► well. Right. And that's a little bit outdated. Um, there they, Apple has over the years developed
01:47:28 ◼ ► methods to be able to transfer ownership of an app to a different developer account. When they first did
01:47:34 ◼ ► it, there was a bunch of restrictions. Like if it had ever used iCloud, it couldn't do it. I believe
01:47:38 ◼ ► that none of those restrictions are still true. I believe not even the bundle one. If it's ever
01:47:42 ◼ ► been used in a bundle, you can't do it. Uh, I don't know about that one, but, um, over the years,
01:47:46 ◼ ► they, they have made it more possible to move apps to a different developer account. Um, that being
01:47:52 ◼ ► said, you are right. It is easier to just buy the developer account, but, um, I've, I think in most
01:47:58 ◼ ► cases, most lawyers, um, when you're buying a business, most lawyers don't buy the business entity.
01:48:06 ◼ ► They buy the assets of the business entity. So like if I wanted to sell overcast, no one is going to
01:48:12 ◼ ► come by and say, I'm going to buy overcast radio LLC from you. They're going to say, I'm going to
01:48:22 ◼ ► the Apple ID and asset though. Well, but the Apple ID is for that business entity. I know,
01:48:27 ◼ ► but you can change what Apple ID is. Like I had a person, I had a non-business Apple ID that I
01:48:31 ◼ ► converted to a business ability. Presumably I could convert it back. I don't, I wouldn't guarantee
01:48:35 ◼ ► that. Um, what I have heard is that the process of changing the business entity or even the name of
01:48:42 ◼ ► the business entity on an Apple ID is incredibly difficult to get Apple to actually do.
01:48:46 ◼ ► No, I went through it. It is difficult, but it is possible to do it. Maybe it only goes in one
01:48:51 ◼ ► direction. I don't know because I only went from not business entity to business entity on my developer
01:48:55 ◼ ► account. And that was incredibly painful and dumb and took a really long time, but it did happen
01:48:59 ◼ ► eventually. Yeah. So anyway, I think the idea of like having it be separate so that people can buy
01:49:05 ◼ ► your app more easily. First of all, I think is a little optimistic for most people, but also like
01:49:09 ◼ ► I think many acquisitions, if you, if that does happen, many acquisitions don't work that way
01:49:13 ◼ ► anyway, because they'll want to make their own new thing. Did you hand off the, uh, the Instapaper
01:49:17 ◼ ► Apple ID or no? You know, I don't remember how we did that. Honestly, because they like, they didn't
01:49:23 ◼ ► buy the LLC. They set up their own new company and we transferred everything over. I don't remember
01:49:27 ◼ ► what we did for the developer account to be honest. I think you might've given them the Apple ID
01:49:31 ◼ ► because I think that was, could have moved before transfers. Yeah, it probably was. And, and I don't
01:49:34 ◼ ► think Instapaper used iCloud for anything. Um, so I might've been able to do, or maybe iCloud didn't
01:49:39 ◼ ► exist than I remember back then. Yeah. I don't know. But, uh, anyway, as you were getting to
01:49:44 ◼ ► for, for like, how do you register another one? I came into this problem as well. I forget. I think
01:49:48 ◼ ► I had complained about it on the show when I was like, I want to make an Apple ID for testing
01:49:52 ◼ ► purposes. I know you can make sandbox Apple IDs a lot easier, but I like, I wanted to make
01:49:55 ◼ ► a real Apple ID. It wasn't for like app testing purposes. I think this was me trying to like
01:49:58 ◼ ► do macOS 10 testing or something. And I wanted to have other Apple IDs that I could do stuff
01:50:02 ◼ ► with. And for a while, I, again, I think I complained about it on the show. I just literally
01:50:07 ◼ ► could not create an Apple ID. Like it just, I couldn't do it. I was getting errors or like
01:50:12 ◼ ► it asked me for stuff that I didn't want the phone number thing. Like, Oh, they want a phone
01:50:15 ◼ ► number for you. Like one of the answers in the old days was like, Oh, get a Google voice
01:50:18 ◼ ► number. But I don't think they're handing them out anymore. And I think Apple rejects Google
01:50:21 ◼ ► voice numbers. Like that basically like synthetic voice over IP voice numbers and things like
01:50:26 ◼ ► Apple's requirements for what it takes to open an Apple. We call an Apple ID. Sorry. They're
01:50:31 ◼ ► called Apple accounts. Now Apple's, you know, what does it take to, to open a new Apple
01:50:35 ◼ ► account and will it actually work on whatever system you're trying to do it on? Those answers
01:50:39 ◼ ► change all the time. And to Marco's point, asking somebody quote at Apple about it, whether it
01:50:43 ◼ ► is customer support or an AI chat bot or a person in a retail store, I wouldn't trust anything
01:50:50 ◼ ► they say because it's not a part of the business they interact with frequently. Like they're
01:50:57 ◼ ► Apple ID. Sure. That'll work because you've got all the information available and you're just
01:51:03 ◼ ► day. Uh, but if you're trying to open multiples, yeah, I don't know, get a burner phone, use
01:51:08 ◼ ► your landline. If you still have one, I think that's how I ended up doing things. I have landline
01:51:12 ◼ ► number and a cell phone number. Like it's difficult, but it is possible. And if you do it the other
01:51:18 ◼ ► order that I did it, don't do it the way I did it, which is come in with an Apple ID. There's
01:51:22 ◼ ► ancient and it's not even an email address. And then just add a regular quote unquote, regular
01:51:26 ◼ ► Apple ID at me.com or no itools.com or whatever the hell it was. And now I have two. Yay. Instead,
01:51:31 ◼ ► start by creating a business entity thing. And if you create a business entity, I can tell you,
01:51:36 ◼ ► if you're going to sell things through the app store, we all have to have a phone number associated
01:51:39 ◼ ► with our business. That is not our other number. Cause if you want to sell in the EU, they demand,
01:51:42 ◼ ► uh, you know, a phone number and you probably don't want your home phone number posted on
01:51:46 ◼ ► the app store in the EU. So it's kind of like this whole sort of big windup of like make an LLC,
01:51:54 ◼ ► get a mailing address for the LLC. That's not your home address. Get a telephone number for
01:51:58 ◼ ► the LLC. That's not your home telephone number. And then once you've gathered all that and done
01:52:01 ◼ ► all that stuff, then you should probably be able to sail through the Apple account creation process
01:52:06 ◼ ► because you're creating a business account from day one with business info. You've got your
01:52:10 ◼ ► DUNS number, you've got all your address and your phone number, and you got everything ready to go.
01:52:14 ◼ ► I've never actually done that, but I imagined it's got to be easier than what I ended up doing,
01:52:19 ◼ ► which was having a weird old personal Apple ID and watching it evolve over the years until I
01:52:27 ◼ ► if you want to have a phone number that you can use for your business, you don't have to have like a
01:52:32 ◼ ► whole separate cell phone plan. Like you could, you could have like a cheap VoIP plan or you,
01:52:38 ◼ ► maybe you could get like some kind of like, you know, one of those like very low use emergency
01:52:41 ◼ ► only cell phone things. Like my phone number costs me $9 a month. Yeah. Like you can do stuff like
01:52:46 ◼ ► that. You know, you can get like, you know, PO boxes at a UPS store as your address or,
01:52:51 ◼ ► you know, whatever, like, I don't think Apple will let you do a PO box. Oh, okay. Well,
01:52:54 ◼ ► but I'm sure like when they were doing the EU thing, whatever it was where everyone had to get
01:52:57 ◼ ► an address, I think you're not allowed to use a PO box. So you do have to like, again, there,
01:53:01 ◼ ► there are companies that will do this for you if you pay them. Yeah. Many times though, like if you
01:53:06 ◼ ► form an LLC through an accountant, um, many times the accountant will let you use their office
01:53:12 ◼ ► address as the LLC process address. Be careful for that though. If they move or retire, it screws with
01:53:16 ◼ ► stuff. True. Yeah. But anyway, so there's, you have options, but that's, that's generally like the way
01:53:21 ◼ ► to do it. Um, and as for, I did want to very quickly go on a totally different tangent. Us,
01:53:27 ◼ ► I would love the Ternus era of Apple to reconsider the flow of the stores. The experience at a modern
01:53:39 ◼ ► Apple store is so crappy in so many ways because the stores are built with the structure and assumption
01:53:49 ◼ ► of a time that has long passed that like, this will be a place that people will explore our
01:53:56 ◼ ► products and talk to a genius and it'll be so nice. And like Apple stores basically are DMVs that look
01:54:07 ◼ ► That's see, that's the problem. Like the Apple store functionally is the DMV now, but they are
01:54:14 ◼ ► still seemingly in denial about that. And so they don't, they don't work as well as DMVs do.
01:54:20 ◼ ► Right. Um, and, and yeah, sorry for non-US people. That's the department of motor vehicles. It's the,
01:54:30 ◼ ► Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah. So like Apple stores have tons of people who are fighting for
01:54:37 ◼ ► appointments to get their broken phones fixed. Like that is the basic, the most common thing people are
01:54:42 ◼ ► there for is like my phone broke or died. I need a new one or I need you to fix it or whatever.
01:54:46 ◼ ► And you need to tell me it's going to be extraordinarily expensive. And I didn't buy the
01:54:50 ◼ ► iCloud storage and I didn't buy the Apple care. And you're going to tell me how horrible that is.
01:54:53 ◼ ► And it's going to suck. Most people in the Apple store are sitting around looking sad about their
01:55:00 ◼ ► broken phones, waiting in cues that are not apparent to them that I think have a pretty high,
01:55:07 ◼ ► like forgetting rate of like you, like you get forgotten because everyone's just identified
01:55:11 ◼ ► by the color of the shirt they're wearing. Another person comes in with a blue shirt and forget it.
01:55:15 ◼ ► Right. Or it's like, Oh, go, go over there and talk to Sam. Who the heck is Sam? And Oh,
01:55:19 ◼ ► it's that personal blue shirt. Yeah. All seven of them. Like, and, and you go and it's like,
01:55:24 ◼ ► and people, all the blue shirts are like standing around hovering, appearing to be doing nothing.
01:55:36 ◼ ► fundamental denial about what they actually need to be today. Just in terms of sheer volume,
01:55:43 ◼ ► like they need a lot more stores. They need a lot more capacity for appointments and genius
01:55:49 ◼ ► appointments are also never served on time. Like they're always late. So you, if you have an
01:55:54 ◼ ► appointment at 1230, you go at 1230, you're going to be there till two. The whole system is straining
01:55:59 ◼ ► under load. It seems like Apple is not maybe aware or acknowledging that. And the experience as a
01:56:08 ◼ ► customer, like I now dread having to go to the Apple store for something, unless I'm just buying
01:56:12 ◼ ► something and picking up real quick. But like, if I have a service need, I dread going there. Not
01:56:16 ◼ ► because the people are bad. Cause they're not, the people are very nice. And I, I've, I've always had
01:56:21 ◼ ► good experiences with like, once I actually get a person, it's, it's always very pleasant and
01:56:25 ◼ ► they're, they're very good, but they don't have the capacity they need. And the way they organize
01:56:31 ◼ ► their traffic and manage their traffic is also terrible from the customer point of view. Like,
01:56:36 ◼ ► so I don't know how much they have to change here to make this significantly better, but what they have
01:56:42 ◼ ► now has not scaled well at all to its current level. And I, and I hope, I hope at some point in this
01:56:50 ◼ ► new era of leadership at Apple, I hope they think of addressing that somehow. And I don't know what
01:56:55 ◼ ► that looks like. It could just be, you need to order, you know, open a lot more stores. Um, but I
01:57:00 ◼ ► think some basics like a queue that people can actually see and kind of know where they are and
01:57:06 ◼ ► know, and, and, you know, be able to figure it out more easily, I think would be a pretty big help.
01:57:12 ◼ ► Yeah. We've been complaining about the lack of lines at Apple stores for so long now, it's hard to
01:57:15 ◼ ► believe it's going to change, but I want to rewind quite slightly before that tangent, just to hear from
01:57:21 ◼ ► Yes, I have one that is my personal stuff. And I don't, I'm going to use that one for fast text.
01:57:27 ◼ ► It was so darn long ago. I think I did, but everything else is under a different Apple ID.
01:57:31 ◼ ► That's held by my LLC, just like you described. I don't think it has an associated phone number
01:57:37 ◼ ► because I think I made it long enough ago. Like you were saying that it didn't need one,
01:57:40 ◼ ► but I echo what you two were saying that it, if you were looking to make money from your app,
01:57:47 ◼ ► and even if you're just looking to release your app, but especially if you're looking to make money,
01:57:51 ◼ ► I can't recommend enough getting a completely separate Apple ID. Treat that as its own entity.
01:57:57 ◼ ► Never the two shall meet just like you would, at least in the United States with like a business
01:58:01 ◼ ► checking account versus a personal checking account. You want very clear lines between the two just to
01:58:09 ◼ ► if you're going to have an LLC in the U S give it its own bank account, it makes everything so much
01:58:13 ◼ ► easier because then it's like, what is business expense? Everything that was charged with this
01:58:17 ◼ ► account. Yep. It's very, very simple. Very easy. Thanks to our sponsor this episode, Squarespace.
01:58:23 ◼ ► And thanks to our members who support us directly. You can join us at ATP.fm slash join. One of the
01:58:29 ◼ ► many perks of membership is ATP overtime, our weekly bonus topic this week on overtime,
01:58:34 ◼ ► we're going to be talking about some new rumors about the iPhone 18 family coming up. Um,
01:58:40 ◼ ► didn't make it in the full show. So we're going to talk about it in the, in overtime. You can join
01:58:51 ◼ ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm. And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them.
01:59:07 ◼ ► And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S. So that's Casey Liss,
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01:59:57 ◼ ► beach trip and i was curious uh because i was ribbing you earlier about that it shouldn't take
02:00:02 ◼ ► you long to pack because you have so little space to pack into and insofar as your cars are tiny
02:00:07 ◼ ► um and i was curious have you seen the trunk of an accord it's not that tiny have you seen the
02:00:13 ◼ ► back of aaron's car um so everything's small compared to a bus right well and then we put
02:00:18 ◼ ► a toolie on top uh anyway uh so when you go on a trip john and this does not necessarily mean the
02:00:23 ◼ ► beach so i was i was curious like when you pack for a regular trip say you're going to the midwest
02:00:28 ◼ ► to visit family how do you what do you pack how do you pack what do you what is your approach and then
02:00:33 ◼ ► i'm especially interested to hear what is your approach for the beach and i think that the
02:00:38 ◼ ► difference between you and i i'm going to wager is that we tend to bring a ton and a great example
02:00:44 ◼ ► of this i think we've talked about this in the past is that we bring our own beach chairs to the beach
02:00:49 ◼ ► and my understanding is you typically stay in the same house every year and you know that they have
02:00:53 ◼ ► beach chairs there and so you don't bring beach chairs and that that in of itself is a ton of
02:00:58 ◼ ► space but i think there's a lot more to it than that so when you go on a trip what are you bringing
02:01:03 ◼ ► are you bringing a ubiquity travel router john are you bringing a sonos rome like i tend to do
02:01:09 ◼ ► what are you bringing when you go on a trip and especially a beach trip well the additional context
02:01:13 ◼ ► that will add uh comparing my packing to casey's was i believe at one point casey posted a picture
02:01:18 ◼ ► of the back of his cavernous volvo suv i think i just shared that with you privately i don't think i
02:01:23 ◼ ► posted it publicly and the stuff that was in there that we were looking at beach chairs doesn't even
02:01:28 ◼ ► begin to describe the category of things that was in the back of this car that i would never take on
02:01:33 ◼ ► a trip with me i i don't remember the specifics if you want to enumerate some of the things that
02:01:38 ◼ ► our jaws were dropping about casey oh gosh i i'm trying to remember i'm also trying to find the
02:01:42 ◼ ► photo because what we do is so i here's one of the things that i remember i think you had like
02:01:46 ◼ ► essentially uh cases of drinks whether it's soda or whatever not just like one two liter bottle of
02:01:54 ◼ ► soda or something but like a case of soda from like costco like from like a warehouse store
02:01:58 ◼ ► yep we're gonna pack that and bring on the trip beach chairs food like and we would look at this and say
02:02:04 ◼ ► you know casey wherever you're going on vacation you can buy soda they have it there it's there already
02:02:10 ◼ ► you can get it you do not need to like think about like the bulk and weight and potential danger
02:02:16 ◼ ► of a case of soda as a choice to put in the back of your car to go on a trip it's like on every axis
02:02:23 ◼ ► of choosing things to pack in your car it is like bad wrong no don't do this absolutely not and he's got
02:02:29 ◼ ► it in there just so much stuff now look you got a big car hey you know and you've got you've got a
02:02:34 ◼ ► roof rack on top of the cavernous car and you want to i'll send you a picture of that in a second yeah
02:02:39 ◼ ► you do you because obviously you you bought the giant car at least you're using the giant car
02:02:43 ◼ ► even even more so using the giant car because is it is your car three row i forget it is yes all
02:02:49 ◼ ► right so you got but you're putting down the third row when you're going assuming that's right yes yeah
02:02:52 ◼ ► right but anyway it's huge and you've got the roof rack which you could probably barely reach
02:02:55 ◼ ► because the car is so big you do you but anyway i'm not an suv person i don't have one i've never
02:03:01 ◼ ► owned one i just do sedans the accord sedan is a quote-unquote full-size sedan and the trunk is big
02:03:06 ◼ ► but it's a sedan the trunk is only big compared to the small to mid-size suvs that people think have a
02:03:12 ◼ ► lot of room in them but actually when you open up the trunk the back the headrests are like two inches
02:03:16 ◼ ► from the window glass because they the entirety of that car has been taken up with space for the
02:03:21 ◼ ► passengers and they have the little truncated back and they're like i've got a big suv i got
02:03:25 ◼ ► a lot of storage space like no you don't my accord's trunk is bigger but anyway when i pack
02:03:30 ◼ ► uh this is a thing that i i'm sure marco has already starting to realize in case he will realize soon if
02:03:35 ◼ ► he hasn't already uh if you have children as they get older the amount of stuff you have to pack
02:03:42 ◼ ► decreases yes you would think it would increase like oh they're getting bigger aren't their clothes
02:03:46 ◼ ► bigger all these big teenage boy jeans are taking them all this room no babies their crap takes up so
02:03:51 ◼ ► much room and then toddlers it shrinks a little bit because you don't need so much stuff for them and it
02:03:55 ◼ ► shrinks and it shrinks so now that both of my children are essentially adults although sometimes
02:03:59 ◼ ► i forget about that um and sometimes they do as well they actually have less stuff but still we've
02:04:05 ◼ ► had these accords which actually have grown a little bit over the life of the kids we've gone trips in
02:04:09 ◼ ► civics back when we just had a civic but eventually i got accords we'd go on family trips and we would
02:04:13 ◼ ► find a way to wedge all that crap in there and also when we just had one kid it was easier than packing
02:04:19 ◼ ► for two kids and anyway so it all worked out we always fit everything in no roof racks no nothing
02:04:24 ◼ ► it just all goes in the trunk but what that means is no beach chairs one beach chair would make it so we
02:04:28 ◼ ► can't pack one like because that's not because it's just it is a poor choice for packing it is not dense
02:04:35 ◼ ► it is uh incompressible in various dimensions that are bad for packing in the trunk of a sedan
02:04:40 ◼ ► so no beach chairs we do bring a beach umbrella um and just because they don't have them where we
02:04:47 ◼ ► are we always bring them and their sticks and they can mostly fit in so it's not too bad so let me
02:04:50 ◼ ► stop you right there just very very briefly i'm genuinely curious about this so if you were to go
02:04:56 ◼ ► to a different beach house which i know you would not do by choice but like let's say the owners of
02:05:00 ◼ ► this beach house decide they're not going to rent it or what we've been to different beach houses over
02:05:05 ◼ ► the years it's not always been the same one okay so how do you know if you need to bring a chair
02:05:09 ◼ ► i'm genuinely asking well when you rent a beach house usually they'll tell you like whatever
02:05:12 ◼ ► amenities they have like sometimes they have bicycles you can use and they'll say if they
02:05:16 ◼ ► have beach chairs or whatever um and so yeah like we just you know you you know what you're walking
02:05:21 ◼ ► into and if they don't say anything one way or the other guess what you can buy beach chairs when
02:05:25 ◼ ► you're there oh and often you can just leave them at the house and if you come back i'm way too uh i was
02:05:31 ◼ ► going to say cheap but let's go with frugal to do that well that's this is the ultimate cheapness
02:05:34 ◼ ► because it's like well think of the other thing casey i don't know if you've run into this if you
02:05:37 ◼ ► really you know if you rent a house especially a beach house but any kind of house i would imagine
02:05:42 ◼ ► this is like we were doing this days before airbnb or whatever um when you go there if it's like a
02:05:47 ◼ ► house house and you plan on cooking in the kitchen which we do because again see like we're not going
02:05:51 ◼ ► to go out to restaurants all the time it's like i'm kind of trying to keep it as low budget as
02:05:55 ◼ ► possible family vacation you know every single pot and pan in that place is going to be garbage you
02:06:00 ◼ ► know every knife is going to be so dull that you could not cut anything with it is just
02:06:04 ◼ ► it's just it's like a safety knife for a child and so what do we end up doing we go to the store
02:06:09 ◼ ► we buy a cheap pancake pan a cheap knife from the supermarket that is a thousand times sharper than
02:06:15 ◼ ► any other knife in the house and we put it in a particular drawer and we just leave it there and
02:06:19 ◼ ► guess what when we come back next year it's still there and it's still better than all the other knives
02:06:23 ◼ ► and if it's not go buy another 12 dollar knife from the supermarket like they have things there so
02:06:29 ◼ ► yeah we will you know how what are you going to do if there was no beach chairs we would go to the
02:06:34 ◼ ► store and buy a beach like we're going to beach places they sell beach chairs right but we've never
02:06:38 ◼ ► had to do that we've had to had to buy uh utensils and pans uh sometimes so we've never had to buy beach
02:06:44 ◼ ► chairs umbrellas just don't seem to be applied so we bring ours with us but yeah all the stuff we have
02:06:49 ◼ ► fits into the trunk of our car for four people for a week's vacation at the beach uh it does involve a
02:06:54 ◼ ► beach umbrella and sometimes an inflatable air mattress if we're really trying to you know
02:06:57 ◼ ► pack lots of kids into houses although these days as the kids all become adults no one wants to sleep
02:07:02 ◼ ► on air mattresses so we bring them less uh it's just clothes you know the stuff you want to bring
02:07:07 ◼ ► with you toiletries um my family apparently uh finds every pillow in the entire universe unsatisfactory
02:07:15 ◼ ► no matter where it is same but i don't bring a pillow because i don't have room for it okay to be
02:07:20 ◼ ► clear casey these pictures you just sent include such items as a watermelon you're calling you're
02:07:27 ◼ ► hauling a watermelon fans like you you know you can go to a grocery store when you get there but
02:07:33 ◼ ► now you can't get this watermelon well you can't get a costco watermelon which is like one third the
02:07:37 ◼ ► cost of the one at the grocery store i see i see cans of pringles i see a roll of paper towels i see
02:07:41 ◼ ► multiple fans i see a la croix a case of la croix a huge case of bottled water bottles yes bottled water
02:07:49 ◼ ► why so so the thing i'm understanding better we've had a little bit of this conversation in years past
02:07:55 ◼ ► i'm understanding better that i'm not saying i'm right let me just make it plain right now i'm not
02:07:59 ◼ ► saying i'm right but the approach that aaron and i take is that the only thing that we buy or things
02:08:06 ◼ ► that we buy when we get there are things that are particularly challenging to transport so typically
02:08:11 ◼ ► we'll go to the beach and i'll know just hear me out oh watermelons it's so perfect so easy to
02:08:16 ◼ ► transport no well it is easy to transport it's just there but like milk and oj and eggs and things like
02:08:23 ◼ ► that that we're not going to bring from home but you would basically everything else we bring if you
02:08:28 ◼ ► could just wait until you find a refrigerated compartment you're like we're bringing the milk
02:08:30 ◼ ► we would if we had a refrigerated compartment and truth be told we do bring a cooler with
02:08:35 ◼ ► some things in it but i will always go to the store and get like milk oj eggs you know some of
02:08:40 ◼ ► those sorts of things yogurts whatever um but basically everything else we bring you know whatever
02:08:46 ◼ ► whatever like uh beach drinks that we have uh bottled water which i 100 understand you're exactly
02:08:53 ◼ ► right we could buy that at the beach but it's like eight times the cost of what it is at costco
02:08:56 ◼ ► child-sized shovels complete with uh solid wooden handles yeah i mean the kids rolls of toilet paper
02:09:02 ◼ ► and paper towels and another fan oh well because you want the the noise from the fan fan for each
02:09:07 ◼ ► person yeah but it's the pillow thing with my family we have a four-person family and three of the
02:09:11 ◼ ► people in that four-person family insist on bringing their own pillows sometimes they want to bring two
02:09:16 ◼ ► pillows and so it's a bit excessive the good thing about the pillows well the good thing used to be
02:09:20 ◼ ► about the pillows is like look they're the last thing that goes in and guess what you can squish them
02:09:24 ◼ ► into pretty much any spot because they're pillows but then but then some of them got on the memory
02:09:28 ◼ ► foam pillow kick and those much more dense and you just harder to get those into the spots where you
02:09:32 ◼ ► want to wedge them but anyway i tolerate the pillow thing especially since worst case you can say oh you
02:09:37 ◼ ► really want the pillow that's on your lap for the whole drive because there's no other place for it
02:09:41 ◼ ► right and it's not so bad to have a pillow on your lap but it does make you hotter and i can't convince
02:09:44 ◼ ► them not to bring i don't bring any pillows i just use whatever pillows they have there and somehow i
02:09:48 ◼ ► survive but they all have to bring their pillows i am extremely picky about pillows i think we've also
02:09:53 ◼ ► talked about this in the past uh i tend to sleep with my arm under the pillow so you know it's like
02:09:57 ◼ ► mattress arm pillow head and because of that i like a just paper thin pillow it's absurd how thin i would
02:10:04 ◼ ► prefer my pillows to be but you know what for that week i just steal by the way enjoy your rotator cuff
02:10:10 ◼ ► problem later oh i'm sure you're right i i have no doubt they have those uh those beds that i always
02:10:14 ◼ ► see those like fake instagram ads for where it has like a place to tuck your arm you ever see those yeah
02:10:18 ◼ ► yeah i do notice that you're apparently only bringing two chairs that will change too because
02:10:23 ◼ ► eventually you're going to be like hey why did mom and dad get chairs and we don't oh no no no we do
02:10:27 ◼ ► have four chairs i don't think they were pictured you're right but we do eventually end up with four
02:10:31 ◼ ► chairs in here you can bring a whole living room set like why why stop this the thought technology we
02:10:37 ◼ ► had for this year was the they were selling at costco costco is our jam oh they were selling at costco
02:10:41 ◼ ► these instacrate things not a sponsor or anything like that i see it there but you can fold these to
02:10:46 ◼ ► nothing when you're not using them and then they become a fairly stable crate when you do need them
02:10:51 ◼ ► so like i put all of my technology into one of those crates uh we brought although we we always bring
02:10:56 ◼ ► and almost never use the switch to the base for pro controllers we have an apple tv which we do use all
02:11:03 ◼ ► the time um we have what else do i have in there uh a power strip is there a sonos setup hiding in there
02:11:09 ◼ ► there are two sonos which is big and a sonos rome which is small because again like a like a
02:11:16 ◼ ► casey being the the guy from ponyo who's got to spritz the water in front of him he needs music
02:11:20 ◼ ► wherever he goes otherwise he dries out we're gonna have to do that for a member special otherwise i'm
02:11:24 ◼ ► never gonna watch that movie but um anyways we and we bring like paper plates and the reason we bring
02:11:29 ◼ ► paper towels is because we get them cheap at home and it just kills me to spend five x what i would
02:11:34 ◼ ► have spent at home to get all these things we could just as easily bring because we don't have a
02:11:38 ◼ ► little baby car and i'm saying that actually not to insult you i genuinely mean that because like you said
02:11:43 ◼ ► earlier because we have the space as with attics as with homes we fill up the space because why not
02:11:49 ◼ ► and then in the tuli which is the roof racky thing i'm probably pronouncing it incorrectly we have like
02:11:54 ◼ ► the the all the beach stuff one of the fans uh one of the rolls of paper towels etc etc so i was just
02:12:00 ◼ ► curious so it sounds to me like and i'm not snarking at all you with the exception of the beach umbrella
02:12:05 ◼ ► in the pillows basically the only thing you're bringing is clothes and very little else is that fair to say
02:12:11 ◼ ► well i mean so tech wise uh just to touch on that i don't yeah i don't have a travel router i don't do
02:12:16 ◼ ► all that crap although the house we're at doesn't have great uh internet but it's gotten better over
02:12:20 ◼ ► the years but um i do i have been bringing the apple tv for many years whatever whatever my uh lowest
02:12:26 ◼ ► ranked demoted apple tv is i bring um it because i take lots of pictures and i want to show them
02:12:33 ◼ ► you know even just to just use it to airplay to the tv to show the pictures i've taken on the world's
02:12:38 ◼ ► crappiest tv with terrible contrast where none of my colors look right i every year i go there and
02:12:42 ◼ ► hoping this is the year they'll have got a new their tv is so old it pains me so much i do always make
02:12:47 ◼ ► sure the motion smoothing is turned back off but like this tv is so old and terrible this please let
02:12:52 ◼ ► this be the year they fix their tv but anyway um that's why it doesn't have airplay built in which a
02:12:56 ◼ ► lot of the modern ones do and also when the kids were little it's you know you can pick up put you can
02:13:01 ◼ ► put their shows on that even for the adult sometimes if there's some series like oh you gotta watch this
02:13:05 ◼ ► new show stranger things i've never heard of it oh good you know we apple tv's here i can go to my
02:13:10 ◼ ► netflix and i'll show it to you you can watch the first episode get you addicted so when you go back
02:13:13 ◼ ► home you watch you know that type of thing that's the only real tech we bring obviously every you know
02:13:18 ◼ ► casey would like strap a 65 inch tv to the roof of his car to bring exactly why not he's got the roof
02:13:22 ◼ ► oh i 100 percent would if i could you've got actually didn't you say john one i think it was
02:13:27 ◼ ► like last year the year before didn't you say that you were like on the precipice of buying a new tv for
02:13:32 ◼ ► this place if i remember i was like it would be so cheap and it would just be so much but it's like
02:13:36 ◼ ► why like just do it just they're so cheap you can buy a 300 walmart tv would be better than this thing
02:13:41 ◼ ► please just it's terrible um occasionally other people bring stuff like uh my brother has brought the
02:13:46 ◼ ► his uh quest headset which is the only reason i got to try that so the whole family tried that out this
02:13:50 ◼ ► is before the vision pro um but yeah there's not a lot of technology going it's mostly just
02:13:54 ◼ ► everybody and their stuff but of course every individual person in our family has because we're
02:13:58 ◼ ► adults now their iphone their ipad their laptop all their chargers and their cables all you know
02:14:03 ◼ ► that's just like your personal technology stuff that's but that's in their stuff every person has
02:14:07 ◼ ► a personal bag so every kid has their personal backpack which used to be a cute little kid
02:14:12 ◼ ► backpack but now is a gigantic one you know so that's and since i'm driving the car i don't have my
02:14:16 ◼ ► backpack with me and my backpack goes in between the the two kids in the seats because you know i
02:14:21 ◼ ► can't put it at my feet like they do but yeah it's mostly just uh you know clothes and uh sunscreen
02:14:27 ◼ ► and uh you know hairbrushes and toiletries and all the other stuff like that and we do bring towels with
02:14:33 ◼ ► us even though the houses offer towels we like to have our own and we do bring like a beach blanket but
02:14:36 ◼ ► here's the thing looking at the back of your packing your giant cavernous car and your roof rack
02:14:40 ◼ ► and everything the tip i will give if you do not have a gigantic car like this because i'm looking at what
02:14:45 ◼ ► you're putting in your back here i would never choose the things the containers that you have
02:14:50 ◼ ► put your belongings in to go including the instacart thing and i'll tell you if you're out there and you
02:14:55 ◼ ► do not have a giant box shaped cargo place in your huge suv soft containers no carry-on luggage no away
02:15:04 ◼ ► look i love away luggage i have a bunch of it they were sponsored the show way back in the day but i
02:15:08 ◼ ► honestly like their stuff no luggage nothing rectilinear nothing hard and rectangular because the way you get
02:15:20 ◼ ► duffel bags squishy things and yes the packing cubes use the packing cubes but then put the
02:15:26 ◼ ► packing cubes into duffel bags because you'd be surprised how much you can squish a duffel bag
02:15:31 ◼ ► and another duffel bag next to it and get things in and then the pillows that all the kids want
02:15:36 ◼ ► wedged on top and that weird uneven space in the top of the trunk of a sedan where there's like oh
02:15:40 ◼ ► nothing will fit there pillows will fit there and at the very end you put the hats on top
02:15:44 ◼ ► because the hats you don't want to squish and also pro tip uh when you're going on the ferry the bag
02:15:50 ◼ ► that has your lunch in it it's got to be easily accessible at the very very edge of the trunk so
02:15:54 ◼ ► you can just open that trunk yank out the bag and go up and test it if you yank out the the lunch bag
02:15:59 ◼ ► for the ferry and every other thing in the trunk expands to fill that space immediately you failed
02:16:04 ◼ ► reset you need to have it so you can take the thing out and put it back in when you're done
02:16:09 ◼ ► um yeah it my my trunk is packed i always do pack it because like casey said you fill the space that
02:16:14 ◼ ► you have and i've developed strategies over the years uh we'll see how we go this year uh we might
02:16:20 ◼ ► have a couple of challenges because people want to bring more stuff but you know i'm always fighting
02:16:25 ◼ ► back against that it's like we don't need that much stuff we just need what we know we're going to
02:16:29 ◼ ► use when we're there and if we find out we don't have something we can always go buy it and and the
02:16:34 ◼ ► place we're going is not like a beach town or like a tourist trap type of thing it's actually one of
02:16:40 ◼ ► the less tourist trap the areas on uh the east end of long island if if there can be said to be such a
02:16:44 ◼ ► thing so i it's not like uh going to bermuda or something wherever everything costs uh astronomical
02:16:50 ◼ ► prices we could just that's fair go to a plain old stop and shop and it's just the same prices in the
02:16:54 ◼ ► stop and shop everywhere and it's fine that's the thing like like what do you like how much are you
02:16:58 ◼ ► buying such that a grocery store wouldn't be fine like price wise like i know costco is cheaper but
02:17:06 ◼ ► like u.s grocery stores are pretty inexpensive still well if you're in a tourist trapty town i mean you
02:17:13 ◼ ► live in one marco like your grocery stores are not cheap because guess what you're trapped on this
02:17:16 ◼ ► little island and you're gonna pay our prices yeah but that's because you can't drive to one here like
02:17:20 ◼ ► right well i think like vacation towns where it's like hey everyone who's in this town is uh is on
02:17:26 ◼ ► vacation here the little local market is going to be expensive well yeah but it's again like when you
02:17:32 ◼ ► have a car and regular road you can just drive 15 minutes to the nearest regular grocery store like
02:17:37 ◼ ► i think you might be more than 15 how close is the closest regular grocery store to you when you go on
02:17:42 ◼ ► these trips uh usually 10 to 15 minutes it's it's not that burdensome then you have no excuse then yeah
02:17:47 ◼ ► no no i don't but i think ultimately like you know you mentioned a couple times like you fill the space
02:17:51 ◼ ► you have like i i've i've now owned a lot of different sized vehicles um you know from the
02:17:57 ◼ ► bmw 3 series probably at the smallest to the review which is the largest i have found when i take my
02:18:03 ◼ ► large trips like especially like you know going upstate for christmas or whatever like when i take
02:18:07 ◼ ► my large trips i fill them up no matter how big or small they are when i when i've had a smaller
02:18:12 ◼ ► vehicle we fill it to the gills and we somehow fit it all in when i have a big vehicle that i think this
02:18:19 ◼ ► will be so much easier at christmas christmas comes i fill it to the gills and i'm like i can't
02:18:23 ◼ ► believe i filled this giant new vehicle or whatever and i've been i've been thinking about this recently
02:18:27 ◼ ► as i am thinking you know whenever this lease is up for my ix i i'm planning on going with a smaller
02:18:33 ◼ ► vehicle next time and one of the thoughts i've had has been like can i go down to a smaller vehicle like
02:18:38 ◼ ► is that going to make family trips difficult or whatever and and i just have to keep reminding myself
02:18:44 ◼ ► like no it'll be fine i've had smaller vehicles it was fine i'll bring less stuff because i'll have to
02:18:50 ◼ ► bring less stuff and it will be fine and i think here like as much as we make fun of you casey like
02:18:56 ◼ ► you are filling the space you have uh and if you ever had to have less space or chose to have less space
02:19:08 ◼ ► to it to add to this but you couldn't bring you couldn't bring a a case of bottled water did we
02:19:14 ◼ ► get the count on that because when we say case of bottled water i'm not sure we're giving you the
02:19:17 ◼ ► right idea one two three four five six seven eight eight times maybe 40 bottles of water in there what
02:19:23 ◼ ► do we think i mean we use most of it because i'm sure you do so we're gonna say a costco kirkland
02:19:28 ◼ ► bottled water 40 bottles pack it in the trunk and there's soda see did you see the diet cokes
02:19:32 ◼ ► hanging out on the left side of that just leaning over there shoved in there another diet coke wedged over
02:19:36 ◼ ► over the watermelon well it has to keep the watermelon from rolling no that was something
02:19:39 ◼ ► different over the watermelon i forget what that was but just any fizzy drink that could possibly
02:19:43 ◼ ► leak and or explode sure throw it in there well i mean these beaches are direct shot for us one of
02:19:49 ◼ ► them is like through the cape charles is like three hours the other one we go to is like five or six
02:19:52 ◼ ► hours but there's no turns along the way what i know what i mean by that is it's not like we're
02:19:57 ◼ ► leaving the car for hours on end on a ferry or something like that like oh yeah well it's i don't i
02:20:02 ◼ ► don't trust any uh any carbonated sugary drink in the trunk of a car but you know so far it's worked
02:20:08 ◼ ► out for you so far and and i do think like oh you'll always fill the space i would have real difficulty
02:20:13 ◼ ► filling casey's car without the roof rack because i just don't think we have that much stuff that we
02:20:16 ◼ ► want to bring to the beach like i said the beach specific stuff is like sunscreen which is small i'm
02:20:22 ◼ ► bringing marco's japanese sunscreen this time to try it out hey and uh some you know a beach blanket a
02:20:28 ◼ ► towel um towels umbrella uh you know that's just there's not there's not much stuff like we're not
02:20:34 ◼ ► bringing a volleyball court but i got a casey we'll probably back that like so i think honestly if we
02:20:38 ◼ ► went on a regular beach vacation with your car casey we would have real trouble filling it that's fair
02:20:42 ◼ ► do you what is your or let me rephrase you said an umbrella is your shade of choice at the beach
02:20:48 ◼ ► does long island has long island gotten into the shibumi thing are you familiar with this i do not
02:20:54 ◼ ► recognize the name brand but i can tell you the variety of things that people have had on beaches
02:20:58 ◼ ► to give them shelter from the sun and wind is uh very high there's lots of different things that
02:21:04 ◼ ► exist including some things that other people in my extended family bring with them i've never been
02:21:08 ◼ ► into them but i know they exist various balloony windbreakery hut type things what is a shibumi
02:21:15 ◼ ► so a shibumi the idea is let the wind work for you not against you and what it is it's basically a
02:21:23 ◼ ► giant piece of like um what's the material that like a parachute or like or something like that
02:21:28 ◼ ► would be made out of ripstop nylon there you go and uh what it is is it's you put like a tent style
02:21:35 ◼ ► like collapsible post through the front of it and then it connects to a bag or the carrying case
02:21:41 ◼ ► becomes a bag that you fill with sand and you put that in the front and so you aim it into the wind
02:21:47 ◼ ► such that it's trying to blow away from the bag of sand that's in front of it but the combination of
02:21:52 ◼ ► a bag of sand and all the wind gives you a pretty giant uh shade that you can sit under and what's
02:21:58 ◼ ► really great about it is this thing when it's collapsed is very small in ways nothing and this
02:22:04 ◼ ► is this was i'd seen these for years at cape charles and i always thought like oh this seems like it's
02:22:09 ◼ ► got to be a gimmick and then i would see more of them and more of them and more of them and then uh
02:22:13 ◼ ► when we went to sunset beach last year with our friends here in town um they got one and so i finally
02:22:20 ◼ ► got to like try it out and put it up and take it down with them and i was like oh my god this is the
02:22:23 ◼ ► best thing i've ever seen and they're not cheap and i'm sure there's knockoffs that maybe are just as
02:22:27 ◼ ► good but shibumi are uh incredible if you're a beach person we'll put a link in the show notes these things
02:22:33 ◼ ► for my money this is incredible and i cannot imagine going to the beach without it now it's funny i would
02:22:39 ◼ ► expect to have seen a lot of these because we can see the beach from like upstairs yeah to here and so and
02:22:46 ◼ ► one of the great fun things to watch here is like sitting at breakfast with coffee in the morning
02:22:51 ◼ ► on the deck looking out and seeing all the dads setting up these ridiculous contraptions like for
02:22:57 ◼ ► the more like trying to stake out a good spot you know eight in the morning on the beach and you see
02:23:03 ◼ ► you see all the dads setting up their stuff you know you see the lifeguards are out digging and digging up
02:23:06 ◼ ► their stuff and then like there's like four or five dads thinking like they are they're living for this
02:23:12 ◼ ► moment all year long they get to play with all their gear and setting stuff up and staking out the
02:23:17 ◼ ► great spot and so i see a pretty big variety of shade contraptions i have not seen these um i'm very
02:23:25 ◼ ► surprised they started in i'm not surprised because the reason i was giving these a thumbs down is
02:23:30 ◼ ► i just don't think long island beaches have the consistent wind to make these viable it's just too
02:23:37 ◼ ► oh we do it fluctuates too much directionally like even if it's steady at speed is steady
02:23:42 ◼ ► the direction fluctuation is enough to make this troublesome i've seen these on the beach i've seen
02:23:47 ◼ ► people have them and i've seen the failure case which is like well you want it to always be sort
02:23:52 ◼ ► of stable and rippling in that position but like first of all stable and rippling in the position
02:23:56 ◼ ► directed to the wind like a weather way in vain would be assuming the wind doesn't change direction
02:24:00 ◼ ► which i think it does frequently and assuming it is steady also sometimes means the shade is in a weird
02:24:05 ◼ ► place so then you start doing the thing where everyone does a scutching as the sun changes to
02:24:09 ◼ ► today because if you're spending the whole day at the beach you're scutching and you're following the
02:24:12 ◼ ► shade around whereas if you do one of the other systems including umbrellas you can adjust the
02:24:16 ◼ ► umbrella and you don't have to move your seats so that is handy but the second is the flappy thing
02:24:20 ◼ ► like if the wind dies or changes direction or it goes in a weird direction or a gull comes down and
02:24:26 ◼ ► starts attacking you and stuff it's just i just don't feel this is well supported enough the technology
02:24:30 ◼ ► of very light material and a bag that it comes in that you fill with sand is well worn and there's lots of
02:24:34 ◼ ► sort of various little tent cave hut things that are like this that are a little bit more reliable i
02:24:40 ◼ ► think this has the wow factor but i i wouldn't i wouldn't put my stake on this for a long island
02:24:45 ◼ ► beaches specifically maybe it works better in things with steadier wind and constant wind direction for
02:24:51 ◼ ► people who are not going to be on the beach all day long yeah what what we see the most of here is
02:24:56 ◼ ► whatever like tommy bahama umbrella costco is selling this year like that that's number one
02:25:02 ◼ ► like number one most common and you can always tell like oh yeah that's you can see like there's like
02:25:06 ◼ ► one or two old ones that's oh that's last year's design but for the most part the vast majority of
02:25:12 ◼ ► people have whatever costco umbrella is this year i think i think i've if you've seen the picture maybe i
02:25:18 ◼ ► posted on my instagram of like it might have actually even been fire island beach uh of just like the
02:25:23 ◼ ► beach from the distance and it just looks like a bunch of umbrellas live there like just it's you
02:25:27 ◼ ► can walk across the tops of the umbrellas especially when you're back in a distance at all the umbrellas
02:25:31 ◼ ► are like foreshortened into a single line and it's just so colorful and pretty and yeah like you said
02:25:35 ◼ ► like whatever the colors were the years they bought them and i don't know if people buying them like
02:25:39 ◼ ► immediately that year because we are beach umbrellas we've been using for decades now so sometimes you
02:25:43 ◼ ► get some really old designs in there well they just don't last very long is the problem so like
02:25:47 ◼ ► ours are still going strong i guess they don't make them like they used to well that's definitely
02:25:51 ◼ ► true but uh yeah so you see a lot of tommy bahama costco umbrellas and then every day there's usually
02:25:57 ◼ ► like three of those giant tent things that somebody has four poster tents sometimes the four or the ones
02:26:04 ◼ ► that are like triangles where it's like like you have like two up front and then they kind of just
02:26:08 ◼ ► slants down into like down to the sand like a lean to kind of looking yeah like there's a lot of those
02:26:13 ◼ ► and those are the ones that that the 8 a.m dads are usually trying to set up is like some giant
02:26:17 ◼ ► thing that like it's way too big like our beach isn't that big here and people bring these tremendous
02:26:23 ◼ ► things and not realizing like all right you know in in two hours the tide is going to be under that tent
02:26:28 ◼ ► well hopefully the umbrella line makes it so they can't set up anything that close to it but
02:26:33 ◼ ► let me to go back just a half step you had said what happens if there is no wind uh let me introduce
02:26:39 ◼ ► you to the incredible thought technology or really just technology technology that is the shibumi
02:26:44 ◼ ► wind assist tm which is two smaller bags that have clips on them and you fill the smaller bags with
02:26:52 ◼ ► sand and clip them to the other end of the shibumi so other families kids can trip over that line and
02:26:57 ◼ ► yell at you and take down your thing that's right yes because it really like anything that has a line
02:27:01 ◼ ► going out to either a stake or a sandbag extending that far from the place that you staked out on a
02:27:06 ◼ ► crowded beach on a weekend in long island the kids are going to trip over that and it's going to be
02:27:09 ◼ ► bad i just i'm not a shibumi fan i'm not convinced i'll see if they're if they're uh if they become
02:27:14 ◼ ► more prevalent uh and in my experience i've seen a couple of them and i thought they were novel but i
02:27:19 ◼ ► don't see a lot of them so i'm like oh that must have died but you know maybe their marketing is going
02:27:23 ◼ ► to bring them back especially if you look at like the the amount of surface of like area that you are
02:27:29 ◼ ► taking up versus the amount of shade that is created like this this is made for very large
02:27:36 ◼ ► beaches that are not very crowded because like here we're way too crowded here on our small beach here
02:27:41 ◼ ► so like here an umbrella is about as large as most people want to be because if you're setting up this
02:27:47 ◼ ► kind of thing and even if you get there in the morning and can stake this out people will hate you
02:27:50 ◼ ► you're taking up too much space you're taking up tons of room to create a very small square of shade
02:27:57 ◼ ► really um for you know two people and that you can only walk into most easily through the one big
02:28:03 ◼ ► aperture defined by the arc because you try to walk into it from the sides you're ducking down and it's
02:28:07 ◼ ► messing up and it doesn't really want you to walk into it from the back it's just it's just not a
02:28:11 ◼ ► great idea not a fan well i think that's because you are on crippled beaches that that are too small
02:28:17 ◼ ► you mean the best beaches in the world those beaches oh wow of course john that's of course
02:28:21 ◼ ► i've forgotten that there's nowhere that counts in the entire world except long island you think the
02:28:26 ◼ ► best beaches in the world are long island's beaches you know i haven't been to all the beaches in the
02:28:30 ◼ ► world but i have been to bermuda which everyone bragged about and i said you know what i'd prefer
02:28:34 ◼ ► to be on long island beach bermuda beaches are nice but the water is too warm the sand is weird
02:28:39 ◼ ► oh my god the water the water is too warm water is too warm you that's i said it feels like a bathtub
02:28:45 ◼ ► all right i i do not want to get in an argument with you so i'm just going to plow forward
02:28:49 ◼ ► but i will say look i love long island i love long island beaches i love fire island even more but
02:28:55 ◼ ► to call these the best beaches on any metric absolutely do i totally i totally believe it
02:29:00 ◼ ► there they are my favorite beaches in the whole world i think they're some of the best that's
02:29:03 ◼ ► different that's they're all i think also think they're some of the best people marco uh is not
02:29:08 ◼ ► really a beach person as we have established he lives near the beach but he's not so much a fan of
02:29:12 ◼ ► being on the beach and swimming in the water so yeah but because our beach isn't actually that
02:29:16 ◼ ► great to swim in if i'm honest and there are beaches that are like when you go to the caribbean
02:29:20 ◼ ► like they're really nice i understand i understand maybe hawaii would convince me i haven't been to
02:29:25 ◼ ► hawaii was also really nice they could compete very nice beaches in hawaii have you been to bermuda
02:29:29 ◼ ► uh no you should they have very nice beaches but i prefer long island beaches and i actually think
02:29:34 ◼ ► the long island beaches are better on what metrics i have to know besides the water being colder
02:29:40 ◼ ► i think they're more pretty i think they're more fun to be at i think they're more fun to sit on the
02:29:44 ◼ ► sand all day uh and go in the water and come back out and have a nice lunch and play in like because
02:29:50 ◼ ► the bermuda beach is the water the water is not refreshing when you're hot and you want to go in
02:29:54 ◼ ► the water to cool off and the water is 85 degrees it sucks what and the the beach sand being so fine and
02:30:00 ◼ ► pink is beautiful but it's it's not as good to play beach volleyball on one day one day before you die
02:30:06 ◼ ► which hopefully is not for a long time i i want to hear you acknowledge that cars other than hondas
02:30:12 ◼ ► exist and are good and ferraris and ferraris and that i like them too i also like bmws i like a lot
02:30:20 ◼ ► of cars the cars are not a problem i i and honestly one of the things like i didn't think about this when
02:30:24 ◼ ► i moved here but cape cod beaches actually are the closest i've found to uh long island beaches in
02:30:30 ◼ ► terms of me liking the aspects of them the cape cod beaches i think are not as nice but they're really