00:00:00 ◼ ► I have monthly FaceTime calls with a handful of good friends, one of whom is our good friend Underscore.
00:00:06 ◼ ► And once a month, we'll get on FaceTime for like an hour or two and just chit-chat and catch up.
00:00:13 ◼ ► and I noticed my magic trackpad, which is my mouse of choice, was sliding a little bit on my desk.
00:00:21 ◼ ► and the four little feet or whatever they're called, the little rubberized things that it rests on,
00:00:25 ◼ ► you just, you know, rub on them for a second with your hand or with your finger and gets all the gook off,
00:00:30 ◼ ► and then you put it back down, everything's good for another like few weeks, what have you.
00:01:02 ◼ ► and it is itty-bitty, and I should send it to Dr. Drang to do like a forensic analysis.
00:01:22 ◼ ► I have then used that as an excuse to upgrade my lightning magic trackpad and keyboard to not only a USB-C magic trackpad and keyboard, but the black USB-C trackpad and keyboard.
00:01:40 ◼ ► I've got my BlackBook Pro over here with my black keyboard and my black mouse, and I am loving life.
00:01:46 ◼ ► To be clear, like I think almost every nerd wants that excuse to replace the perfectly fine lightning version of these peripherals with the much more convenient USB-C version.
00:01:59 ◼ ► And here I am with a giant supply of Microsoft Precision mouses, all which have a micro USB port on the front.
00:02:15 ◼ ► I got my Fancy Pants Magic Keyboard, right, my black Magic Keyboard, and it looks so good.
00:02:22 ◼ ► It reminds me of the iMac Pro one, which I loved and would actually probably still be using if it wasn't for the case.
00:02:29 ◼ ► It wasn't for the problem that it doesn't have Touch ID, that the iPad Pro one doesn't.
00:02:44 ◼ ► And that difference is, if I look at the lightning keyboard, other than being blinded by how bright it is because the keys are all white or something like that,
00:02:52 ◼ ► the control key in the bottom left-hand corner spans roughly two-thirds of the width of the shift key above it, right?
00:03:00 ◼ ► So in the bottom left corner, there's basically every Mac keyboard, control, option, and command.
00:03:05 ◼ ► And so I don't know when this started, but I have, in the last couple of years, started control clicking to right-click.
00:03:13 ◼ ► I know there are a million other ways to do that, including two-finger taps and so on and so forth.
00:03:20 ◼ ► Whatever reason, I don't know why, I started doing control click like I'm a damn 80s Mac user, right, John?
00:03:36 ◼ ► But nevertheless, the new keyboard, the option key and the command keys were both shrunken ever so slightly.
00:03:42 ◼ ► And instead of the control key being the lower left-hand key on the keyboard, the stupid globe and effing key is in the bottom left-hand corner of the keyboard, and then command, and then option, excuse me, and then control, then option, then command.
00:03:55 ◼ ► And so now, every time I go to freaking right-click, instead I'm function clicking, which does nothing.
00:04:06 ◼ ► I had to get the one with the numeric keypad, even though I don't really use the numeric keypad that often,
00:04:22 ◼ ► I use it to type in numbers, but I didn't realize that they had the FN keyed down by the control.
00:04:28 ◼ ► I have the keyboard that came with my Mac Pro, which, as you noted, does not have a Touch ID key, but it has normal control keys in the corner.
00:04:53 ◼ ► Yeah, I think it was just when they integrated Touch ID, they made those couple of tweaks.
00:04:57 ◼ ► I think my wife's keyboard, she has an extended keyboard, and it has Touch ID, but I don't think they did that to the core.
00:05:05 ◼ ► Well, actually, now that I'm looking at it, if you look at this image, I was not intending for this topic to go on this long, but here we are.
00:05:11 ◼ ► There's, if you go to the shot, if you go to the store, so here, I'll paste this link in.
00:06:00 ◼ ► Okay, if you are looking to, like, replace a click on the mouse, it has to be, for most people,
00:06:16 ◼ ► I think there was a time where, in the default setting, you couldn't pop up a context menu
00:06:24 ◼ ► But I might just disable that key in the keyboard if I had a key like this, because the key next
00:06:28 ◼ ► to the delete key often gets hit accidentally, and I don't want it popping up a context menu.
00:06:34 ◼ ► So I was trying it on Visual Studio Code, which is what's right in front of my face, you know,
00:06:42 ◼ ► But then when I went to Mail, if I'm looking at my list of messages, and I have one of them
00:06:47 ◼ ► selected, whichever one is currently selected, if I hit this little menu button, sure enough,
00:06:51 ◼ ► the context menu comes up with open, send again, reply, reply all, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:07:05 ◼ ► So this, I'm using the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic, and on between the right side, alt and control.
00:07:18 ◼ ► And I just tried, like, you know, if you have something in the UI selected, and you hit the
00:07:41 ◼ ► So I lamented, and then Marco joined in with me, about how I wasn't receiving tap-taps on
00:07:50 ◼ ► And Marco and I were casting about for potential causes for this, and we were talking about maybe
00:07:58 ◼ ► And a lot of the suggestions we got, I didn't actually get that many suggestions via, like,
00:08:08 ◼ ► But a couple of them, it wasn't any one particular person, but a couple of them had me poking
00:08:20 ◼ ► And if you look at a particular contact in iOS, in the contacts app, and maybe this works
00:08:26 ◼ ► I noticed that for ringtone, I had a specific sound for Aaron, which is, you're the best around
00:08:42 ◼ ► And then I have a special vibration for her, which we had talked about, and I had emergency
00:09:01 ◼ ► I don't know why I would have or when I did it, but would you like to guess what the option
00:09:24 ◼ ► Like, was there a time where you didn't just get the thing out of the box, turn that switch
00:09:29 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean, pretty much, if you mean the physical switch, I always immediately set it
00:09:56 ◼ ► Because I thought your thing was like, it seems like you don't get notifications, but it's
00:10:01 ◼ ► So, what it was, the behavior in summary was that, and it was a private conversation just
00:10:15 ◼ ► Uh, but when we were in group text, you know, so, you know, a handful of people together,
00:10:19 ◼ ► then, um, her stuff would poke through based on my focus mode settings, which is what I
00:10:28 ◼ ► So, in summary, Marco, this may or may not help you, uh, but if you go into TIFF's contact
00:10:33 ◼ ► and go down and look at the special settings for both, uh, vibration for, for ringtone and
00:10:41 ◼ ► Now, I did immediately test it and it did seem to tap my wrist when she sent that text.
00:10:52 ◼ ► anyway, going about my day, it seemed like I was missing them again, but I was oftentimes
00:11:20 ◼ ► So, it's not, that's not, whatever your, your theory was about the text tone being set to
00:11:29 ◼ ► Because I, for a while, in order to try to alleviate this problem, a couple of years ago,
00:11:48 ◼ ► And, like, you can't, it sounds like there's, you know, like a nuclear alert going off on
00:12:00 ◼ ► Unfortunately, that, it seems like, again, when you are wearing an Apple Watch, it seems
00:12:06 ◼ ► like that over, like, the Apple Watch, its presence on your wrist tells the phone, don't
00:12:20 ◼ ► Like, there's, um, there's a setting that's been around forever called Prominent Haptic,
00:12:31 ◼ ► to do, if it's going to do, like, the tap-tap, it'll first do a big, like a, like a one-second
00:12:40 ◼ ► I don't, I don't have it set currently, but I used to do that because, like, I always liked
00:12:57 ◼ ► Also, those early, those early taptic engines were also just, I think, less reliable and
00:13:04 ◼ ► Anyway, so that's not, the problem I have with TIFF is not that setting because I have it set
00:13:11 ◼ ► Although, maybe, maybe the Apple Watch doesn't, because the Apple Watch doesn't do that same
00:13:23 ◼ ► I can tell you, the way I have temporarily, at least, worked around this problem is what I
00:13:34 ◼ ► this is probably true on iOS too, but I changed the notifications for messages on macOS to
00:13:42 ◼ ► So, that way, like, if, if there's a message that comes in on the Mac, you know, if, if the
00:13:48 ◼ ► little notification bubble in the upper right corner, you know, normally it would show up
00:13:58 ◼ ► This is how I have calendar notifications, reminder notifications, like, I, this is how I
00:14:27 ◼ ► Anyway, Bart writes, the HP dev Mac asked Mac apps member special is now available as a
00:14:43 ◼ ► And the agent apparently came back with a score of 23 out of 36 where, and there's a whole breakdown
00:14:54 ◼ ► But I thought that this was very funny that Bart turned it on himself and came up with,
00:15:03 ◼ ► I'm assuming they just asked it to summarize the member special, transcribe the member special,
00:15:10 ◼ ► And as I said, when we talked about this member special last week, it's not like we covered
00:15:16 ◼ ► But anyway, some of the things that it called out is that you can't copy and paste to contain
00:15:22 ◼ ► That's the idea of like, if there's something in your app that can be selected and you hit copy
00:15:47 ◼ ► With regard to Ramageddon, Jonathan writes, listening to ATP the last couple of months helped me decide
00:16:04 ◼ ► Instead of like the Marco offset, it's like, hey, did you save some money by buying Macs at
00:16:13 ◼ ► I mean, it's fine if you want to wait to September because that's when we do the, you know, campaign
00:16:21 ◼ ► So whenever, Jonathan, you make that donation for you, since you were the first to come up
00:16:28 ◼ ► an email, reach out and I'll send you a couple of stickers just for Jonathan because they
00:16:33 ◼ ► Shutter Aperture writes, with the skyrocketing cost of memory, do you think Apple will revisit
00:16:45 ◼ ► I don't think, yeah, I don't see this as a thing because their whole shtick, when a lot
00:16:56 ◼ ► I mean, as we said on the earlier program, we talked about this, it would still be unified
00:17:00 ◼ ► The unified adjective in the description is saying that there is not a separate pool of
00:17:13 ◼ ► You could have unified memory and have it be expandable, but Apple won't do that just because
00:17:17 ◼ ► the other things that you get from their current memory thing is you get very short physical
00:17:22 ◼ ► distance between the CPU, GPU, and the RAM, like it's right on the same package with it
00:17:29 ◼ ► And you can do that with expandable RAM too, but it's closer still if you can get, you know,
00:17:40 ◼ ► speeds for less money because the interfaces for doing high speed that are expandable, you
00:17:45 ◼ ► know, but anyway, the main problem is, of course, Apple doesn't have a lot, physically doesn't
00:17:54 ◼ ► Obviously in the laptops, everything's tight and you're like, well, you know, it can be done.
00:17:58 ◼ ► It's like, yeah, but look how much room they dedicate to their expandable memory and then
00:18:13 ◼ ► And the idea that that would help with the RAM crisis, like, oh, buy less, buy less RAM now
00:18:21 ◼ ► But like by the time RAM prices go down to the point where you would actually save money
00:18:28 ◼ ► Like you can just buy your thing on one of those buy now, pay later, or like take out a
00:18:32 ◼ ► loan or something and have all your RAM from day one versus paying for half the RAM and
00:18:44 ◼ ► And I don't think they would say, well, this will really help our customers because then
00:18:47 ◼ ► they could buy cheaper computers from us and then expand them with possibly third party
00:19:01 ◼ ► But so long ago now, I can barely remember when we all used to recommend buying Macs with
00:19:09 ◼ ► And even then, a lot of the appeal of socketed RAM, modular hard drives, a lot of the appeal
00:19:19 ◼ ► for Apple's Macs supporting those was not necessarily about, well, I want to extend the life of this
00:19:30 ◼ ► I want to immediately go get like, you know, crucial RAM or, you know, some third party
00:19:40 ◼ ► I mean, all my old Macs, before they really locked it down, pretty much all my old Macs
00:19:44 ◼ ► had third party RAM in it and it was fine for the reason Marco said, because Apple will always
00:19:51 ◼ ► Yeah, like my first couple Apple laptops, I had my own hard drives in them too because they
00:20:10 ◼ ► Like that, that does hurt customers in a bunch of ways, but it hurts customers in ways that
00:20:15 ◼ ► as John was just saying, like it doesn't really hurt Apple, so they're not going to care.
00:20:24 ◼ ► They're not going to change their plans based on what they perceive as short-term pain.
00:20:32 ◼ ► It's too early to say, how long is this, you know, skyrocketing cost of memory and storage?
00:20:44 ◼ ► Apple probably has better insight into it than we do because they're connected to the supply
00:20:49 ◼ ► But if it's only going to be like a few years where this is going to be really skyrocketing
00:20:55 ◼ ► and then supply will catch up to demand, Apple is going to be patient enough to wait that
00:20:59 ◼ ► They're not going to change their entire architecture plans based on pain for a few years.
00:21:09 ◼ ► Jay Peters at The Verge writes, in an interview with the YouTube channel Gamers Nexus, Valve
00:21:20 ◼ ► Gamers Nexus asks, were you able to lock in contracts from memory with the suppliers directly
00:21:34 ◼ ► Those guys, they give us a price every month or something and they say, you can't buy that
00:21:48 ◼ ► Like right now, if you are the manufacturer of a resource that is scarce and very high demand
00:21:54 ◼ ► and it's very difficult for new competitors to come online, yeah, you can dictate terms.
00:22:01 ◼ ► Again, like we were talking last episode, how Apple used to be able to dictate terms to
00:22:05 ◼ ► suppliers because they were like such a powerful buyer with so much volume and they could basically
00:22:18 ◼ ► They have all the power and they can dictate whatever they want to their customers and their
00:22:32 ◼ ► And then with regard to the three big companies that make RAM, Luke James at Tom's Hardware
00:22:38 ◼ ► writes, Samsung, SK Hynix and Micron were sued on June 25th in the U.S. District Court for
00:22:43 ◼ ► the Northern District of California, where 17 plaintiffs accused the three memory makers of
00:22:48 ◼ ► illegally coordinating to restrict DRAM supply and inflate prices that the complaint says have
00:22:58 ◼ ► The complaint argues that the three companies used a coordinated shift toward high bandwidth
00:23:03 ◼ ► memory or HBM, the stacked DRAM that feeds AI accelerators as a cover to curtail production
00:23:11 ◼ ► That contraction in commodity DRAM, the plaintiffs argue, pushed prices to record highs while no
00:23:17 ◼ ► Building a new DRAM fab costs tens of billions and takes years, leaving the incumbents free to
00:23:25 ◼ ► Samsung and SK Hynix have pleaded guilty to criminal DRAM price fixing once before, with
00:23:38 ◼ ► Crime pays, because I can imagine paying that $185 million fine was dwarfed by the profits
00:23:47 ◼ ► Obviously, we do know that, like, there is a non-nefarious explanation if there's suddenly
00:23:52 ◼ ► a new customer with, like, essentially unlimited money buying up all the supply that, of course,
00:23:57 ◼ ► But the fact that two of these companies have pled guilty to price fixing before makes you
00:24:11 ◼ ► And even if they lose, apparently they'll pay a fine that is just, you know, a piddling fee
00:24:19 ◼ ► I mean, the reality is, like, what has probably happened here is probably not like, you know,
00:24:31 ◼ ► It's probably you have a very small number of companies that all were faced with exactly
00:24:36 ◼ ► the same incentive, which is, hey, all this HBM that is being demanded by, like, the AI
00:25:10 ◼ ► But the fact that they pled guilty before means probably someone had a recording of the
00:25:14 ◼ ► smoke-filled room where they said, let's fill pre-fix prices together because you don't
00:25:17 ◼ ► like you settle maybe or you plead out or something like pleading guilty is like, you got
00:25:33 ◼ ► You know, there's probably like how many of the people who were in that smoke-filled room
00:25:50 ◼ ► We were talking about, hey, the feedback that someone sent and say, you can get a Mac mini
00:25:58 ◼ ► It's like, can I get some kind of like cheap, small Mac to tide me over until I can buy the
00:26:02 ◼ ► And I was like, well, I can't do that because I need an eight terabyte SSD and the Mac mini
00:26:09 ◼ ► And Marco was musing, like, if they made the entire Mac mini out of gold, would it be the
00:26:16 ◼ ► I say, like, would the stock, like, you know, 256, 16 gig model be cheaper with a gold case
00:26:25 ◼ ► So AWACS wrote in to say, with an open bottom and an estimated thickness of one and a half
00:26:54 ◼ ► Let's say there are multiple reasons why you don't tend to make gold-cased electronics.
00:27:39 ◼ ► Have you ever put off making a doctor's appointment because it's just kind of a pain to do it?
00:27:43 ◼ ► You either got to go through their big phone system and all the menus and everything, talk
00:27:47 ◼ ► to somebody and read your name over the phone and everything, or you can go fill in their
00:27:51 ◼ ► new web portal thing that they have just converted to again, figure out your login again.
00:28:00 ◼ ► ZocDoc lets you search and compare local in-network doctors and book them quickly and easily at
00:28:07 ◼ ► They have more than 150,000 providers within over 200 specialties across all 50 U.S. states.
00:28:14 ◼ ► You can go on ZocDoc's website to see tons of reviews from real patients and detailed doctor
00:28:36 ◼ ► So you can go through and figure out exactly what doctors are right for you and book them
00:28:54 ◼ ► Head to ZocDoc.com slash ATP to get started and check that appointment off your to-do list.
00:29:33 ◼ ► We have received notice that the Department of Commerce has lifted export controls in Claude Fable 5
00:29:38 ◼ ► and Mythos 5 will be restoring access on July 1, which, as we record this, was yesterday.
00:29:43 ◼ ► Anthropic also said it would re-enable access on AWS, Google Cloud, and Microsoft Foundry soon, but with no set timeline.
00:29:53 ◼ ► After weeks of testing, Fable 5 is no longer vulnerable to a bypassing method discovered by Amazon researchers
00:30:07 ◼ ► However, tightening safeguards came with a trade-off that may cause some benign prompts to be blocked,
00:30:17 ◼ ► Working closely with the government, we trained an improved safety classifier that targets and blocks the behavior described in the report.
00:30:23 ◼ ► Users will be notified if a request to Fable 5 is blocked, and the request will instead be sent to Opus 4.8.
00:30:29 ◼ ► Yeah, this highlights something that someone sent us feedback when I was saying, you know,
00:30:34 ◼ ► the guardrails is, you know, essentially writing sentences to an LLM asking if not to do stuff.
00:30:39 ◼ ► And they're saying, well, no, they use whole separate models, like this classifier model that's trying to determine,
00:30:43 ◼ ► like the other, some other model will look at the input or output and determine if it's dangerous or whatever.
00:31:19 ◼ ► And like what they're doing with Fable, if you have like a monthly subscription to Anthropic or whatever,
00:31:41 ◼ ► When I was using it, I was, it was like, because you have the $20 a month plan, you get to use Fable.
00:31:46 ◼ ► And, you know, it burns through your tokens real fast, but at least you have access to it.
00:31:55 ◼ ► Oh, and I cut out all the parts of the story where Anthrop is like, you know, while we were banned,
00:32:04 ◼ ► Yeah, I think, you know, first of all, on the, you know, plans and pricing, expect this to change every two weeks.
00:32:13 ◼ ► I mean, I was saying, I believe two episodes ago, I said like, oh, don't worry, I'm sure Fable will be back within the next three months.
00:32:24 ◼ ► You know, this stuff is going to be changing and shifting constantly, as with all Frontier AI development.
00:32:31 ◼ ► So, yeah, maybe, maybe by July 7th, which as we record is five days away, you know, maybe they'll, they'll bring it behind, you know, a higher paywall or, you know, make it paper token only or whatever.
00:32:48 ◼ ► Certainly in the long run, this will just be one of the models in the picker for, you know, for the next couple of years.
00:33:01 ◼ ► And on the guardrail front, I do think it's kind of, kind of a farce that like, okay, well, this model, this is too good at doing dangerous things.
00:33:16 ◼ ► So it's like, imagine like, you know, you're, you go to like, you know, some expert, like an expert bomb maker.
00:33:42 ◼ ► It's not, I think they are, they are doing what the government asked them to do, because that was the only way to get this back.
00:34:06 ◼ ► Obviously, the main problem with these coding agents and these quote unquote dangerous things is it's a very symmetrical double-edged sword.
00:34:14 ◼ ► Because if you're writing a program, you want these things to find security problems in your own program so you can fix them.
00:34:22 ◼ ► And that is indistinguishable from find a security problem in this program that I didn't write so I can break into it.
00:34:30 ◼ ► And so it's like, look, do you want us to make our software better or do you want us to be ignorant of the flaws?
00:34:35 ◼ ► Like, these models won't find an exploit in someone else's system, but they also won't find the flaws in your own code.
00:34:40 ◼ ► So we're just trying to mightily to maintain the status quo, which is just never going to work.
00:34:51 ◼ ► Well, and allow the, you know, people, script kiddies to find flaws in anything by typing a two-sentence prompt.
00:34:56 ◼ ► Like, I understand the potential danger, but like, it's, I don't see how this is tenable long-term.
00:35:06 ◼ ► Well, and also, like, this is such a short-term, you know, delay here because suppose Anthropic had really great model research and training to develop this one really special, I guess maybe these two really special models that are really good at finding software vulnerabilities.
00:35:24 ◼ ► And suppose that no one else in frontier AI development was doing this at all or as well as they were.
00:35:36 ◼ ► That only they have developed this amazing technology that gets really good at finding security vulnerabilities.
00:35:48 ◼ ► But like, so, so, obviously the reality is other models either already are this good or are about to be this good.
00:36:02 ◼ ► And they're not going to give a crap about what the government export regulations or whatever are.
00:36:10 ◼ ► So the idea that we are somehow avoiding this, like, security apocalypse of bugs being found and exploited, you know, in mass by controlling this one or maybe these two models, it's a fantasy.
00:36:22 ◼ ► In a very short time, everyone who wants this kind of power is going to have it if they don't already.
00:36:30 ◼ ► So in a very short amount of time, all of the fears of all the bugs being exploited in mass, that's going to happen.
00:36:38 ◼ ► After this one particular dustup settles one way or the other, we're all going to have to face this probably this year or next year at the latest.
00:36:48 ◼ ► This we are going to see a wave of exploits and we are going to have to be very aggressive at patching them and updating things.
00:36:57 ◼ ► This is what I was saying a few months back of, like, this is a really bad time to be holding on to an old OS.
00:37:02 ◼ ► You know, if if you if you're like, you know, if you have like an old device that you are trying to extend the life of that can't get the newest OS's or if you are like, you know, you never wanted to use Tahoe.
00:37:13 ◼ ► So you're sticking with the old, you know, like this is a very bad time generally for security to be refusing to run software updates basically as quickly as they come out.
00:37:23 ◼ ► And that's going to just be the case for a few years and no amount of guardrails and no amount of government intervention is going to prevent that because the reality is the government and the guardrails don't control every company.
00:37:39 ◼ ► Yeah. And just to be clear, like the whole point of the mythos thing is that they want to give that access to mythos to, you know, designated security people so that they can fix like the flaws and the important things.
00:37:51 ◼ ► Please use our unconstrained model to fix all the bugs before we release the constrained one to the world.
00:37:58 ◼ ► But as Marco points out, like that's that makes some kind of sense as a way to move forward.
00:38:02 ◼ ► Like we don't want to stop the good guys from fixing the problems, but we don't want the bad guys to have the tools.
00:38:15 ◼ ► Like I give them some credit for trying, but the the system around this is like chaotic and haphazard and very silly and probably not motivated by anything except for just power and bribery and personal grudges.
00:38:30 ◼ ► Let's talk Siri AI where Marcus Mendez at 9to5Mac writes, the change in iOS 27 beta 2 makes it more clear how Siri AI should handle requests involving accessing content behind a URL.
00:38:47 ◼ ► So what this means is there's this big, long prompt that you don't get to see and you don't get to modify that the system provides to the AI thing model.
00:38:57 ◼ ► There's what I was looking for to kind of give it the lay of the land of what it's supposed to do.
00:39:01 ◼ ► And this I've seen this and it's like probably five or 10 pages of typewritten text long, if you will.
00:39:08 ◼ ► Well, anyways, this is a new clause in that instruction that you don't get to modify as a user.
00:39:16 ◼ ► When a user provides a URL and asks you to summarize, read, or extract information from it, inform them you cannot access web pages.
00:39:26 ◼ ► Remember, he was looking for like a Wikipedia page with himself on it and found a page and says there's no Wikipedia page for you.
00:39:40 ◼ ► And so now this is like, do not offer follow-up suggestions or do not ask the, you know, you can say, I guess it can say like, hey, I'm not allowed to access URLs, but you can't say, why don't you read it to me?
00:40:02 ◼ ► Presumably, this prevents all sorts of exploits and attacks or whatever, but also makes it vastly less powerful than the other, you know, normal, unconstrained LLMs that will gladly fetch the contents of a URL.
00:40:13 ◼ ► I get most of my, in my coding things, all the time I'm telling it, here's the documentation on the web.
00:40:27 ◼ ► I have my world knowledge thing, which hopefully is somewhat up to date and I've got all my other stuff, but I will not go to an arbitrary URL, read it and do anything with it.
00:40:37 ◼ ► Then, additionally, the workaround that people were using to get through the Siri AI waitlist, apparently that's not going to work anymore, isn't working anymore.
00:40:45 ◼ ► Tim Hardwick in MacRumors writes, Apple appears to have closed the loophole that let Mac users skip the Siri AI waitlist in the latest Mac OS 27 Golden Gate beta.
00:40:53 ◼ ► Many users who are running the second developer beta of Mac OS 27 are finding that the line skipping command does not work for them.
00:40:58 ◼ ► Users who enabled Siri AI this way in the original beta are also reporting that they've been kicked back to the waitlist after updating.
00:41:04 ◼ ► Some users are suggesting alternative methods involving submitting Apple intelligence feedback to accelerate approval, but the claims remain anecdotal.
00:41:12 ◼ ► For what it's worth, I signed up on my iPad and it only took, I don't know, like two or three days to get through the waitlist.
00:41:19 ◼ ► Like, this wasn't particularly egregious and I don't think that's, you know, because anyone at Apple is paying attention to who I am or what I'm doing or anything like that.
00:41:26 ◼ ► Like, I think I'm just another number in the bucket to them and it only took me like 48 to 72 hours or something like that, so it's not that bad.
00:41:34 ◼ ► Yeah, I also got in within, I think about five or six days of joining the waitlist and it's, it doesn't, it wasn't that bad.
00:41:40 ◼ ► Finally, uh, Guy Rambeau, friend of the show, writes, uh, John was wondering if there's any way to tell which model Siri was using for each answer that he was asking to determine why one answer was less accurate or detailed than another.
00:41:52 ◼ ► I'm pretty sure that if you export the Apple intelligence report that's available in system settings, it will include the model that served each request as part of the metadata.
00:42:05 ◼ ► Uh, the other day I was, I was like, you know, in the middle, hold on, Siri just woke up on my phone.
00:42:14 ◼ ► I was looking for, um, information in an email that I, you know, I didn't know what the heck it was.
00:42:19 ◼ ► And I, I, I forget, I forget the exact prompt I used, but it was something like, Hey, what was that?
00:42:24 ◼ ► And, you know, one of those forms and it, you know, took about four or five seconds and then found it.
00:42:40 ◼ ► Um, friend of the show, uh, Lex Friedman has turned himself, I think at one point in his life, he was a software developer and then didn't, wasn't, and now is becoming a software developer.
00:42:49 ◼ ► Again, and, uh, he's made an app called gnome, which I, uh, enjoy, which is a very similar to friend of the show, jelly's a gift wrapped app.
00:42:58 ◼ ► Um, it lets you, you know, curate a list of, um, gifts and, and, you know, copy and paste them in places very easily.
00:43:07 ◼ ► So I, you know, didn't have to pay him the five or eight bucks, whatever it was, which is not egregious by any means, but he was not nice enough to offer before I even asked.
00:43:15 ◼ ► Uh, well, anyways, uh, this happened, I don't know, a while ago that he had sent this code.
00:43:25 ◼ ► And sure enough, I said, you know, Lex Friedman with an E, uh, gave me a code for a, for an app, you know, a month or two back.
00:43:39 ◼ ► And I was doing this in like the, the, you know, clickety clacky typey interface to Siri.
00:43:43 ◼ ► And it had a little link I could click to go in messages to that message, which not only did that work, but it worked quickly because I know going back in time and messages is often fraught with peril, but it actually worked lickety split.
00:44:03 ◼ ► Uh, we were offered, uh, by our friends at Parakeet, uh, and we'll talk about who they are in just a moment.
00:44:10 ◼ ► We were offered to do a little trade sort of scenario where, uh, our friends at Parakeet would make some app icons for us in trade for talking about and critiquing those icons on the show.
00:44:22 ◼ ► And so let me tell you about Parakeet and then we're going to go through each of the three of us have had one or more icons, uh, rejiggered, re reimagined, redone by Parakeet and we're going to discuss them.
00:44:36 ◼ ► Uh, first of all, if you are interested in doing icons or that sort of thing, you should absolutely check out our friends at Parakeet.
00:44:43 ◼ ► Uh, the reason we took this as a kind of spawn con sort of thing is because they, they are friends of ours and we know these folks like Marco, you have had them do icons for you in the past, right?
00:44:52 ◼ ► In fact, Parakeet is a partnership between Louie Mantia and Luca Grafera and Louie Mantia was actually one of the original duo who made the original overcast icon.
00:45:06 ◼ ► And, and in fact, the other part of the duo was Brad Ellis, who I believe made the switch class icon.
00:45:25 ◼ ► So when you go to Louie with an app icon idea, like, you know, I don't, I don't usually have like the most complete ideas.
00:45:39 ◼ ► And, you know, I go to Louie with a cloudy mess of vague directions and he comes back with, okay, you should pick one of these things.
00:45:52 ◼ ► Like every day, whenever he, you know, gives those kind of opinions and directions, like he's right.
00:46:09 ◼ ► Not only do you get an icon, but you get direction that you can use throughout the app.
00:46:14 ◼ ► So if you need help with like, hey, you know, what kind of color scheme should I be using throughout the app?
00:46:36 ◼ ► This is a sponsorship in the sense that, you know, they have traded work for this read.
00:46:49 ◼ ► But it's specifically because it is these specific people in this specific company why we took this deal.
00:46:54 ◼ ► And because we think it'll be fun to actually – because we also haven't shown each other the icons yet that they made.
00:47:01 ◼ ► So we figured it would be fun for the show to reveal our icons to each other and comment on them live.
00:47:23 ◼ ► So that part of the show is just going to be, like, actual show content about these icons.
00:47:33 ◼ ► Because, you know, this summer, everyone's doing new icons for their apps, for the new OSs, because you kind of have to.
00:47:40 ◼ ► And they are incredibly talented at not only any – you know, whatever the icon design is of the time, they're very good at it.
00:47:51 ◼ ► But I can say they are really exceptional at handling liquid glass icons, especially with the new 27 capabilities.
00:48:09 ◼ ► And they're really good for this moment in developers' lives where we just need to keep adding new icons to our apps because Apple keeps changing what it means to be an app icon.
00:48:26 ◼ ► So anyway, if you want to hire Parakeet for your app icons, and I strongly recommend that you do.
00:48:35 ◼ ► But I strongly recommend that you hire them because they are professionals, and they're really good at their job.
00:48:41 ◼ ► As evidenced by the fact that you did hire them to your icon, which you're very happy with, before they ever did the sponsorship.
00:50:06 ◼ ► But I'm going to start with some images that I already uploaded because when I, I've engaged
00:50:11 ◼ ► with other companies to do icons for my apps before, and I always try to preface my engagement
00:50:18 ◼ ► with these various designers by saying, I apologize in advance for what is about to happen.
00:50:26 ◼ ► And it's like, I may have vague ideas, but I have very definite opinions about everything.
00:50:39 ◼ ► It's like, look, I may not be able to do it, but I know what's wrong with the thing you did.
00:50:56 ◼ ► And yes, I got two icons instead of one, considered a finder's fee, since I kind of initiated this
00:51:00 ◼ ► And this is the, in the document, I put this thing, which is this, lots of pictures of this
00:51:11 ◼ ► And maybe it was a real thing that somebody did, but like some design, the story behind
00:51:16 ◼ ► it, or the, you know, anecdote is some design bureau put this in their window as a price
00:51:42 ◼ ► And the idea here is like, look, you're hiring a designer, but it seems like you just want
00:51:54 ◼ ► And I sent this and I said, I'm going to try to avoid this, but be aware, this might be
00:52:00 ◼ ► Because I like every single thing you send, I don't have a problem formulating an opinion
00:52:09 ◼ ► And as I always say, it's like, look, this has to be a, as we would say in the biz, Casey,
00:52:22 ◼ ► There's a certain reasonable amount of time, whether you're paying in ATP sponsorship slots
00:52:34 ◼ ► So I said, it's perfectly fine if we go through a reasonable amount of time and we end up with
00:52:50 ◼ ► And if you can't find something that you like in a year, like, you know, you don't own them
00:53:00 ◼ ► And I did not have any problem finding icons that I like, but I just wanted to throw that
00:53:13 ◼ ► I told Brad exactly what I wanted and he made the, he tore the image out of my head and made
00:53:21 ◼ ► There was an iteration process going back and forth, uh, you know, many iterations or whatever,
00:53:33 ◼ ► Well, if you look at this icon and you know what happened in Tahoe, this icon does not fly
00:53:39 ◼ ► Tahoe requires all icons to fit within a rounded rectangle, rounded edge square that we call
00:53:46 ◼ ► And if your icon does not conform exactly to that outline, Tahoe takes your icon, shrinks
00:54:07 ◼ ► Uh, it's supposed to look like a clear, it's on an angle, first of all, which the real squircle
00:54:14 ◼ ► It basically looks like a, uh, like a, I don't know, half a centimeter thick, a piece of lickable
00:54:24 ◼ ► And my idea is the circle diamond and square kind of represent the icons you're switching
00:54:32 ◼ ► And so as, as I recently said, when I was commenting on the rogue Amoeba's post about, uh, squircle
00:54:41 ◼ ► And if it breaks the bounds, I think, uh, this is the worst thing Apple has ever done design
00:54:51 ◼ ► I think if, if Apple wants all icons to be in the squircle shape, as they tried to promote
00:55:03 ◼ ► do when they transitioned from bit mapped icons, like, you know, very pixelated style in classic
00:55:17 ◼ ► Everyone didn't transition to squircles after Big Sur because some people were like, it's
00:55:22 ◼ ► And I guess, you know, we'll update if it works with our design, but if it doesn't work for
00:55:38 ◼ ► Anyway, I hate this decision that Apple did, but it puts me in a difficult situation, which
00:56:07 ◼ ► Um, but with the advent of 27 and, you know, 15 getting farther in, uh, the rear view mirror,
00:56:13 ◼ ► I knew I was going to need new icons because if I'm going to eventually upgrade to 27, which
00:56:31 ◼ ► The only reason I'm leaving it is because Apple is forcing me and I hate the new icon style.
00:56:38 ◼ ► So now go make an icon that I love in a style that I hate while like, like abandoning an
00:57:00 ◼ ► I'm like, I said, I'm, I always say, I just, I'm open to almost any idea, like throw it out
00:57:05 ◼ ► And what I said in most of my design engagements for icons, I'm like, let's just start with
00:57:18 ◼ ► Uh, and here's the problem when you work with really talented designers, they're so good.
00:57:47 ◼ ► Like, I don't know how, I honestly don't know physically speaking what they're doing on their
00:57:57 ◼ ► They were so fast and like high quality, very fast work coming out with like iterations.
00:58:03 ◼ ► And we went through so many iterations and I, and I asked them as I always do, like, can
00:58:08 ◼ ► And they said, yes, like, as long as I don't like use them or show them to the world, I just
00:58:15 ◼ ► If you look at my icon, my crappy Tahoe version of this was just make it a white squircle
00:58:32 ◼ ► They're like, hey, dummy, if you do a head on one, they're like, here's how a professional
00:58:55 ◼ ► Because like, no matter how the rest of this goes, at the very least, that icon is already better
00:59:03 ◼ ► And then of course I had them tweak that a thousand ways to Sunday to try different variations.
00:59:15 ◼ ► I drew the menu bar icon for my app because my app doesn't even show in the doc by default.
00:59:23 ◼ ► And the menu bar icon is a squircle with the diamond from the middle of the app icon in there.
00:59:35 ◼ ► So we could just do a diamond and a squircle because the diamond doesn't break the bounds.
00:59:53 ◼ ► And the innovation here was, can we get the whole, like, a diamond and a squircle thing,
01:00:10 ◼ ► And here is, after many, many, many, many revisions and iterations, here is the icon that I'm using.
01:00:18 ◼ ► Now, you might look at this and say, it's one of those things like, oh, that's not such a great idea.
01:00:35 ◼ ► What it is, is it looks like you took my old icon, rotated it so it's a diamond, and put it on a squircle background.
01:00:52 ◼ ► But now the squircle is the diamond, because if you take the squircle and you rotate it 45 degrees, it's like a diamond shape.
01:01:12 ◼ ► And so there are some constraints I put on my design, which was, and I think this one helped, and maybe my users will not appreciate this, but I was pretty adamant about this.
01:01:26 ◼ ► And the reason this is relevant is because, as we've stated before, these .icon files, this format that Apple came up with, it's a bunch of resources and a recipe.
01:01:46 ◼ ► It's like, I take your ingredients, I assemble them, I composite them, I apply your layer effects, and then I, you know, eventually render as a bitmap that keeps the memory somewhere or whatever, right?
01:02:20 ◼ ► Because I'm hoping, and maybe I'm wrong with this, but I'm hoping that they're not going to change the rendering of these icons every single year.
01:02:49 ◼ ► And by the way, one of the reasons they use these recipes for them is so they can have the different icon themes, which is separate from the system theme.
01:03:06 ◼ ► And there's dark, which is a dark icon theme, which you can have regardless of what the system theme is.
01:03:11 ◼ ► And then there's clear, which sucks all the color and life out of your icon and makes it clear.
01:03:20 ◼ ► And the reason it can do that is because it just takes the ingredients, the layers and the effects, and then it composites them.
01:03:30 ◼ ► And you can tweak the dot icon file lets you tweak, oh, this change in dark mode, use this specular value.
01:03:52 ◼ ► Well, I didn't want to also have, but, like, by the time we were done, I'm like, you know, we spent all that time figuring out how to do this icon.
01:04:05 ◼ ► And so there was lurking in the various iterations this icon, which is basically the same as that icon, but with a dark background.
01:04:23 ◼ ► Like, you can make the entire, like, groups, like, in Icon Composer, you can have an entire group toggle on or off.
01:04:33 ◼ ► Anyway, the dark mode that Parakeet did actually fits in better with dark mode because they did, like, an inverted thing where, like, the shapes are light and the thing is dark or whatever.
01:04:45 ◼ ► So what I'd end up doing was in the About box for Switch Glass, if you're in dark mode, you see this icon.
01:04:55 ◼ ► I don't think I've finished yet, but I'll probably also make it so that if you click the icon, it will switch to the old Brad Ellis one as well because I just still just love that icon.
01:05:02 ◼ ► So, anyway, that's Switch Glass, solved an incredibly difficult problem in an icon that just looks amazing and I'm very happy with.
01:05:09 ◼ ► And you'll be glad you don't get to see the, you know, 10 or 20 versions of the same icon that we went through before we arrived at this.
01:05:29 ◼ ► Front and center, I made the icon for because it did not require me to actually draw anything.
01:05:34 ◼ ► My idea for the front and center icon, you know, to remind everyone, front and center is the app that I have that restores the window layering behavior from classic macOS where when you click on a window that belongs to a different app, it will not just bring that window to the front.
01:06:07 ◼ ► It makes it so that when you click a window in another app, all the windows will come to the front and you can toggle the mode.
01:06:11 ◼ ► So you go back to the what I call the modern mode, which is the default mode for macOS.
01:06:18 ◼ ► And so the icon for front and center I decided was going to be three square platinum windows, like classic macOS style, macOS 8 style, Copeland style, if you will, windows that say front and center.
01:06:32 ◼ ► The back window says front, the middle window says and in the title bar and the front window says center in the title bar.
01:06:36 ◼ ► And these are pixel for pixel exact incarnations taken from screenshots from Mac emulators.
01:06:46 ◼ ► I'm kind of surprised Apple let me have this icon because technically every pixel of this was drawn by Apple.
01:06:53 ◼ ► It's in the past and having a pixel exact icon in macOS 10 doesn't really fit because it scales and everything gets blurry.
01:07:00 ◼ ► So I made basically like all the different sizes of this icon so that all the edges are sharp square pixels.
01:07:07 ◼ ► Like none of them are scaled in the pre Tahoe days, the days before the dot icon format.
01:07:12 ◼ ► You had like dot ICNS resources, which said, give me your 16 by 16, your 32 by 32 by 64 by 64.
01:07:22 ◼ ► And as someone was pointing out on Mastodon recently, I actually have custom versions for 16 by 16 and 32 by 32 that don't look like the big icon because that was the idea with icons was like if your icon, they used to be 32 by 32 max.
01:07:37 ◼ ► But like if your icon at 16 by 16 or 8 by 8 is unreadable when you try to scale it, draw a different icon at that size.
01:07:44 ◼ ► And so my tiny icon just has one window and my really tiny icon just has like the title bar stripes.
01:08:04 ◼ ► But I desperately need a new icon because these cascaded overlapping windows do not fit in a squircle.
01:08:12 ◼ ► And once again, I made my own Tahoe icon, which was three overlapping windows and it looked terrible.
01:08:38 ◼ ► And so again, within 30 seconds was like, here's your app icon, but done by professionals.
01:09:09 ◼ ► This icon is an interesting case study because, well, the other thing that I threw in here
01:09:14 ◼ ► was like, you know, in classic Mac OS, my favorite desktop picture, the desktop background
01:09:21 ◼ ► wallpaper, as I say, in current parlance, because Windows won that war, was a particular shade
01:09:33 ◼ ► And also like in classic Mac OS, the progress bars were this color and the folders were not
01:09:40 ◼ ► But the progress bars and the folders are also kind of like a bluish purplish type of thing.
01:09:47 ◼ ► And so their idea was, let's do like a like a liquid glass style classic Mac OS window.
01:10:02 ◼ ► And the stripes from from a liquid glass when from a classic Mac OS window, but it's rendered
01:10:08 ◼ ► Unlike the switch glass icon, where you can make that switch glass icon the size of a billboard
01:10:15 ◼ ► This one, as you make it bigger and bigger, you say, those window controls are pretty rudimentary,
01:10:21 ◼ ► And believe me, at various points, I said, can we make those window controls more detailed
01:10:28 ◼ ► And we went through several iterations of that and it was all a bad idea because the thing about
01:10:41 ◼ ► Even though it looks gorgeous at big sizes, much of the design of the switch glass icon
01:11:04 ◼ ► So their first instinct was correct, which is we really have to simplify these window controls
01:11:27 ◼ ► And so I'm really happy with this icon because like the other one, this went through so many iterations of me shrinking it down and shrinking it down.
01:11:41 ◼ ► I would just build them all in Xcode, 10, 10 apps all lined up and I'd just be scaling them and the icon view slider and thing.
01:11:47 ◼ ► And then I had them, I had them all on the dock and I would scale the dock and I would look at them.
01:11:51 ◼ ► And it was like, it was like the 31 shades of blue thing from Google, only a human powered and not, uh, not metrics driven.
01:11:56 ◼ ► It's just me staring at them of like, which of these 10 versions that look exactly the same to the casual observer is the best one.
01:12:03 ◼ ► Uh, and yes, that was probably tedious for them, but, uh, and it was difficult for me too, but like eventually I, uh, circled on this one.
01:12:21 ◼ ► It looks like an icon, but like, as you make bigger in Tahoe, some of the effects aren't quite as good or whatever.
01:12:26 ◼ ► Anyway, so the final thing I'll say about this is, uh, I can't, I'm not going to use it.
01:12:40 ◼ ► Like Parakeet gave me 26 versions of these icons because again, the 20 Xcode 26 refuses to read dot icon files from 27 if they use any of the new features.
01:12:53 ◼ ► Uh, and I could just, you know, again, they gave me ones that work in 26 by removing the 27 only features and stuff, but I don't want to do that.
01:13:01 ◼ ► So I'm not actually going to deploy these icons until I can do my first build with Xcode 27, which usually happens like the week they go GM or whatever.
01:13:10 ◼ ► So my apps will continue to have hideous icons in 26 because they're my own drone ones.
01:13:15 ◼ ► And I will also get the maximum amount of time where the people on a Mac OS 15 earlier see the, uh, old icons that I liked.
01:13:21 ◼ ► Um, cause I did like, you know, the, even though I didn't really draw my icon with the layered windows, I did like it.
01:13:27 ◼ ► So even though I love these icons, they will not be on my apps until I can build with Xcode 27.
01:13:36 ◼ ► And like I said, I will probably add Easter eggs so that you can like click on the icons in the app somewhere to see my old versions.
01:13:47 ◼ ► It's Apple's fault and I'm mad at Apple for doing this to me, but I am glad to have beautiful icons made by professional designers that I'm really happy with.
01:14:08 ◼ ► And if you recall, uh, the original call sheet icon is, uh, what, what I asked them to take a look at.
01:14:21 ◼ ► And there, I will put a link in the show notes to jelly's, um, write up that he did a couple of years ago now about the, uh, the, the evolution of the icon.
01:14:50 ◼ ► You mentioned like the things that I couldn't make with that, whatever French band that I can't pronounce because it's so weird.
01:15:08 ◼ ► It's like, you know, when you put red on blue, just like the 3d effect, like it makes your eyes
01:15:11 ◼ ► really, I think my favorite thing about this is that the magnifying glass circle is not centered on the icon.
01:15:54 ◼ ► I get, I didn't even realize jelly and I were having a FaceTime call, uh, like a week ago.
01:16:05 ◼ ► I think my favorite thing about this also is like, even in the blog post, the rectangle
01:16:09 ◼ ► graphic that you put behind it is also like random colors that do not go with the colors.
01:16:20 ◼ ► We were on a FaceTime call like a week or two ago, as I was talking about earlier in the
01:16:24 ◼ ► And, uh, they pointed out to me, did you ever notice there's a second magnifying glass?
01:16:32 ◼ ► It's like you designed by like, you know, the magic wand tool in Photoshop to just select
01:16:45 ◼ ► So my marking orders for, for Louie and Luca were, Hey, I really like the, the, the way
01:16:55 ◼ ► And I love the way it looks, but I feel like at this point it's looking a little bit dated.
01:17:03 ◼ ► So I'd love, you know, a, a refreshed, a spick and span version, if you will, of, of that
01:17:10 ◼ ► And your, did your instructions include anything having to do with like make it liquid glassy,
01:17:18 ◼ ► I could look up, I'd have to find the conversation, but I can look up what I told them, but it was,
01:17:26 ◼ ► I think it makes sense to do something liquid glassy, particularly around the magnifying glass
01:17:49 ◼ ► It is absolutely infuriating when a company hires you to bring your expert advice and expertise
01:18:07 ◼ ► But oftentimes I would come into some other company and be like, Hey, I'm here to do X,
01:18:12 ◼ ► And they say, and they would say to me, great, but you need to do it in exactly this way,
01:18:32 ◼ ► I think it's, it's really fun to have these little like nods to different movies and different
01:18:37 ◼ ► And like the joke that he made, which we were talking about just a week or two ago about,
01:18:44 ◼ ► Uh, I, I think that was hilarious, but, but it's a very busy icon by my instruction, but
01:19:02 ◼ ► Um, this is basically a modernized, simplified, uh, liquid glassified version of the call sheet
01:19:10 ◼ ► Uh, I don't know when I'm going to deploy it, but this, it is my intention to make this the
01:19:14 ◼ ► I intend to leave the existing icons because, you know, there's a zillion icons in there
01:19:23 ◼ ► Then my friend Stee, uh, I'll put a link to his writeup about the icons that he had done.
01:19:30 ◼ ► And we went back and forth a fair bit about, you know, what do we do with regard to the like
01:19:38 ◼ ► And one of the things I said to them was, you know, like, like I said a moment ago, I like
01:19:44 ◼ ► But one hill I am looking to die on is I don't want to lose sight of having at the very least
01:19:59 ◼ ► And they came up with, um, cuts for both pride and the trans version of it as well, which I'll
01:20:07 ◼ ► Um, and I think that these also look absolutely great and they keep with the spirit of what
01:20:20 ◼ ► it, but before I do, I will tell you that I opened these in icon composer, which is the
01:20:28 ◼ ► And there are one, two, three, four, six different portions of different, like, I don't know what
01:20:43 ◼ ► But the highlights in the magnifying glass, there are six individual highlights to make
01:20:51 ◼ ► And this is the sort of thing you get from a professional designer and, you know, Louie and
01:20:57 ◼ ► And about the only thing that we bickered is too strong a word, but bickered about was their
01:21:10 ◼ ► Originally they had them kind of, the top one in particular was kind of hanging off the
01:21:17 ◼ ► I mean, it can't be hanging off the corner, uh, outline because then you get in squirrel
01:21:26 ◼ ► And I think it was probably because I don't have a copy of that icon in front of me right
01:21:33 ◼ ► I'm doing a poor job describing it, but physically that's where it would have been if this was
01:21:37 ◼ ► And we worked a little bit on like bringing it in and we decided, you know what, it makes
01:21:41 ◼ ► more sense to have the rivets where they are now, such that it fits the icon better, even
01:21:51 ◼ ► And I was like, if anything, they deferred to me more than they should have, because I was
01:22:04 ◼ ► Like they would just implement it in two seconds and then I would see it was a bad idea.
01:22:10 ◼ ► But like, I was totally open to anything that, I mean, the entire design of my archive, I did
01:22:20 ◼ ► The only difference is like when they show me something, I immediately know what I don't
01:22:24 ◼ ► And that is difficult to hear if you're not, you know, if you're not, if you're not a professional
01:22:44 ◼ ► But yeah, it does, you know, it, it can be a tiring to hear that every single thing you
01:22:51 ◼ ► And I try to emphasize like already, like with their first iteration, like already, I would
01:23:05 ◼ ► So I think my executive summary of the call sheet icon is what if you took jelly's icon,
01:23:10 ◼ ► And what if you made that, but what, what if like Apple, or in this case, former Apple designers
01:23:21 ◼ ► So, uh, I'm all ears on what you two have to say about it, or if you don't have much to
01:23:39 ◼ ► And we did, by the way, we did a member special where we critiqued our home screen icons, which
01:23:45 ◼ ► So if you want to hear us critique Marco and Casey's old icons, there is a member special
01:23:53 ◼ ► Like I think, you know, it's, it is a common tragedy when icons are redesigned to like throw
01:23:59 ◼ ► away all the old personality and just have some kind of simple, you know, blob or swoosh or
01:24:06 ◼ ► You know, this, this keeps pretty much all of the personality minus the text, which, and
01:24:23 ◼ ► I, I even have the, the maybe slightly hot take that I think you can use the rainbow pride
01:24:35 ◼ ► I mean, it depends on how you want to brand it because that was, that was one of the concerns
01:24:44 ◼ ► our branding as expressed by our icon and the, your default icon, despite having variations
01:24:59 ◼ ► And I also kind of like, I like the idea of someone going in and making the choice to use
01:25:10 ◼ ► Cause, cause I don't use your default icon either, by the way, like that's part of what
01:25:14 ◼ ► makes it fun is that because your icon lends itself so well to variations, it allows personalization.
01:25:25 ◼ ► Um, I personally use the Apple six colors one, uh, and they did make a, I did, I'm not going
01:25:32 ◼ ► And so that will be, please put that in cause it's what I choose, but it allows you, that's
01:25:41 ◼ ► Like, you know, making, like having the pride one be like a special thing, it makes it more
01:25:52 ◼ ► And you know, there's lots more like there's a, I don't know if there's an official website,
01:26:11 ◼ ► and I said, you know, look, what I'm asking for, I guess is just a modernized version of
01:26:16 ◼ ► the current clapperboard icon, but really, you know, go to town, do whatever you think is
01:26:26 ◼ ► And it was interesting because Louie Lucas said to me, you know, while that would be fun
01:26:30 ◼ ► and all, you don't want to give up on the, I feel gross saying this, but the brand recognition
01:26:37 ◼ ► And you don't want to throw that away, which is what Marco, I think was saying a moment ago.
01:26:46 ◼ ► And we, they did look at keeping some text on there and we, the three of us quickly concluded,
01:26:54 ◼ ► And in the, the colors on the clapperboard can be one of those sort of, if you know, you
01:27:03 ◼ ► First, I'm jealous of you because you have what I wish any of my icons had, which is if
01:27:08 ◼ ► you want to use the new refraction effect in the 27 OSs, you need to have something behind
01:27:18 ◼ ► And so like, look at the Apple maps icon in iOS 27, they put a little clear refracty thing
01:27:23 ◼ ► around it because the background is like whatever, like a, you know, whatever Apple's map tiles
01:27:32 ◼ ► We tried with my icons, but like, because of the, again, because of the branding coherence and
01:27:54 ◼ ► So I'm jealous that your, your actual icon branding fits so well with 27, but I will say
01:28:03 ◼ ► I think the, um, like the specular highlight effect and the, like the, the chromatic effect
01:28:09 ◼ ► and everything around the magnifying glass are way overdone at giant sizes, but then shrink
01:28:21 ◼ ► Because if you, if you engage a professional designer, they'll do what you tell them to
01:28:25 ◼ ► Don't tell them to do like, you know, my instinct looking at this big icon was like, Oh, it has
01:28:42 ◼ ► And they'll, you know, they'll do what you ask, but you can ask for things that are wrong
01:28:55 ◼ ► So whatever they're happy with, but my advice to you is you should do what Casey has done
01:28:58 ◼ ► Or I don't know, maybe that's how it's didn't bother him, but like, I think this looks,
01:29:08 ◼ ► And especially for an iOS app, there's not even a way really in like the home screen to
01:29:48 ◼ ► So what I asked for with overcast is basically like, just like a little tweak for iOS 27.
01:29:58 ◼ ► You know, Louie's done all the tweaks or most of the tweaks over time in, in the, the 12,
01:30:14 ◼ ► Not only does this new icon for overcast, which I think I'm going to use, I'm like 90% sure
01:30:22 ◼ ► Not only does it have like perfect updates for the 27 glass refraction looks and everything
01:30:28 ◼ ► like impeccably done, but he has changed the outline color of the tower circle from black
01:30:43 ◼ ► It's the very, the very first day he showed me, I hated it and I'm like, this is, this is
01:30:49 ◼ ► going to need some time because it was just, you know, I've been looking at the same color
01:31:03 ◼ ► I think this, this little tweak of shifting that circle from black to dark blue, I think
01:31:14 ◼ ► And every, and this is like, again, like when you work with a good designer, they will come
01:31:23 ◼ ► And, and I don't say yes to all of them, but I thought this was a really cool new direction.
01:31:31 ◼ ► I'm, I'm going to live with it for a little while on my devices and see like how I like
01:31:45 ◼ ► Louie and Brad at their previous, um, Pacific helm company, like years, years and years and years
01:31:50 ◼ ► Um, and then over time I've had both Brad and Louie at different times, tweak it for different
01:31:56 ◼ ► Like, you know, like when the Apple watch, uh, became a thing, you know, a couple of years
01:32:03 ◼ ► I had Louie help me with, uh, with, with an update for the, you know, little tweaks here
01:32:13 ◼ ► He literally just unsolicited, sent me when he was just like, here, here, I tried this.
01:32:24 ◼ ► Um, so yeah, so it's been, it's been, you know, Louie, Louie and Brad, you know, over the years.
01:32:31 ◼ ► Um, and now, you know, Louie and Luca, I've, I, I've, you know, work with them through this
01:32:37 ◼ ► text message, you know, through this iMessage chat that we've had, which by the way, working
01:32:41 ◼ ► through iMessage is such a delight when you're doing it, like going back and forth with, oh, here's
01:32:48 ◼ ► And it's so much faster than like going through emails or zoom meetings, like, you know, months
01:33:11 ◼ ► Um, so first you're in the same situation as me and that you don't have, um, refracting
01:33:25 ◼ ► So you get the, like, especially this is an example of like at 1024, this looks gorgeous
01:33:30 ◼ ► with like the, the specular highlights on the bottom of the little rings and they're like
01:33:35 ◼ ► These are all effects that I know from icon composer, but like, uh, unlike a call sheet
01:33:39 ◼ ► and unlike, uh, my front and center icon, the bigger you make this one, the more the details
01:33:48 ◼ ► You don't have a shape that goes over the top of another shape that intersects it that you
01:33:53 ◼ ► So if, if refraction is actually turned on any of these shapes, you would never be able to
01:33:59 ◼ ► Cause I think the, I was going to say like this, this, the, the bones of this icon, like
01:34:03 ◼ ► the, the original design of circle radio tower signals orange, like it's so strong and it's
01:34:20 ◼ ► I don't mind it when, you know, when I saw it, I noted that it was blue, but like, yeah,
01:34:26 ◼ ► Cause as you noted, it's like, you know, the whole cliche of like teal and orange or whatever
01:34:32 ◼ ► It does change the branding a little bit, but it also changes it from more of like a, uh,
01:34:53 ◼ ► Honestly, I don't, when I, when you actually see it on device, you don't, you don't have
01:35:02 ◼ ► Shrunken down, comparing it to the current icon, the, the circle part of it is not the part
01:35:10 ◼ ► The thing I noticed is at the bottom of the little, uh, things fade a little bit, but that's
01:35:14 ◼ ► Uh, you know, I have my opinions and, and honestly, like I said, with a vast majority of my opinions,
01:35:25 ◼ ► So that could be, I actually did a few of those back and forth with, with the next icon where
01:35:34 ◼ ► I mean, maybe they already know cause they've either already seen it or have more experience.
01:35:42 ◼ ► And then you have to be honest with yourself and say, just because I asked for it, like,
01:35:57 ◼ ► And most of my changes made things worse, but you have to, if you're honest about that,
01:36:02 ◼ ► And, and with overcast, I want it to be really careful because not only does, you know, you know,
01:36:13 ◼ ► I mean, you know, there have been tweaked, you know, little tweaks over time, but they've
01:36:26 ◼ ► Like, so it doesn't need to be like a whole new, you know, like the way Instagram changed
01:36:35 ◼ ► It just needs like little tweaks to move forward over time with system conventions and minor
01:37:04 ◼ ► It's a, it's a reminders database front end that's simplified, focused on people who snooze
01:37:14 ◼ ► People who snooze a lot and if it's not reminding them constantly, like every day, like if you
01:37:19 ◼ ► dismiss the, the alert for reminder and it never reminds you again, like that thing will
01:37:23 ◼ ► You know, it's, it's an app for, for forgetful people and for ADHD and, you know, people, people
01:37:29 ◼ ► whose brains work like mine, which is we need a lot of gentle reminding all the time about,
01:37:55 ◼ ► That's, that'll be my backup name in case, because I've run into any trademark problems.
01:37:59 ◼ ► Anyway, I gave them the brief and I'm like, all right, I developed this app on the flight
01:38:11 ◼ ► I love like the lava flows coming off of the, the, you know, all the volcanoes and then that
01:38:17 ◼ ► There's all these like dark brown and black, like lava flows of different, you know, all
01:38:26 ◼ ► You know, I looked up like, well, you know, what, what is the, the volcano that the Kona
01:38:35 ◼ ► And I went back and forth, like before I, before we even had this thing, I was, I was going back
01:38:49 ◼ ► And so I'm like, all right, what about a sunrise over the volcano that Kona coffee grows on?
01:38:56 ◼ ► And I even briefly, I'm like, oh, what about my old peace icon, which is a sunrise, which
01:39:02 ◼ ► I, I forget whether Louis or Brad made it, but it was one of their icons back in the day.
01:39:09 ◼ ► And I was like, all right, maybe I can involve the peace sunrise with this volcano, maybe with
01:39:29 ◼ ► You can keep the name, you can keep the volcano, but you probably don't want that name with a
01:39:44 ◼ ► First, I was like, all right, what about a coffee leaf, like a coffee, because I visited
01:39:59 ◼ ► I forget, it's Mount, I forget which mountain it is, but it doesn't really have a distinct
01:40:18 ◼ ► All the different other metaphors, like one of the things that I considered was a forget
01:40:35 ◼ ► And so like there was, there were all these different metaphors and ideas that I was trying
01:40:45 ◼ ► And finally, you know, within, within, you know, a day, uh, Louie and Luca came up with,
01:40:57 ◼ ► So I also, I also told them, by the way, I'm like, I'm using this color, this dark red as
01:41:20 ◼ ► app, I was saying like, it just constantly reminds you of things that you don't forget.
01:41:41 ◼ ► And it's just, it was so hard to come up with anything that wasn't already taken in the
01:41:53 ◼ ► And I was like, oh, actually, I love that also because I love Fire Island and I would love
01:42:02 ◼ ► So I showed the picture and actually I didn't realize Luca grew up on Long Island and they've
01:42:07 ◼ ► So this actually is styled somewhat evocative of the Fire Island lighthouse with the stripe.
01:42:14 ◼ ► It's interesting that you couldn't get talked out of your dark red, but it's like, what if
01:42:26 ◼ ► And second of all, I like the idea of retaking red because red and reminders means overdue.
01:42:34 ◼ ► And if you work the way I work, you always have just a wall of red statuses in reminders.
01:43:04 ◼ ► And they also had the idea of what if we tie in the visual identity to Overcast's icon also.
01:43:11 ◼ ► And that's why it has the circle with a tower in the middle with something coming out of the tower,
01:43:22 ◼ ► And this shape, it goes, you know, all the different color modes, like the monochrome icon modes, the dark mode, like they just nailed this.
01:43:36 ◼ ► Not only are they really great artists, but they're really good at coming up with branding and concepts, too.
01:43:55 ◼ ► And then at the once we decided the direction to go, they're like, OK, we're going to draw this up for you.
01:44:12 ◼ ► Because even even their rough drafts, like whatever they were like, you know, crapping out with no time were amazing.
01:44:20 ◼ ► But then, you know, of course, you know, then the final one has all the nice specular highlights.
01:44:30 ◼ ► And I and I showed it to a few people and everyone I showed it to was like, oh, yeah, that's it.
01:44:35 ◼ ► I gave them a very difficult problem in the sense that I really didn't know what I was looking for.
01:44:39 ◼ ► And I gave them way too many things to pick and they guided me correctly into something that was simpler and nicer and a better logo.
01:45:01 ◼ ► I mean, you could have asked for that and they would have done it for you if that's what you wanted.
01:45:03 ◼ ► But it's like, man, you think it's a crowded it's a crowded icon field if you're going to do checkmarks or line items.
01:45:08 ◼ ► No matter how you abstract them, no matter how you think you're stylizing them or being clever.
01:45:13 ◼ ► Well, but and to be clear on that point, though, like like one one thing that Louie pointed out during the process, because I was saying, like, please don't make it look like a checkmark is everything else is a checkmark.
01:45:22 ◼ ► And he was like, well, most people are only going to have like one of these types of apps installed.
01:45:28 ◼ ► Like you're not really the users don't really care if it was like a checkmark or not, because they aren't seeing a wall of checkmark apps on their devices.
01:45:39 ◼ ► But I mean, look, let's be honest, like app store search is not something that was ever great.
01:45:44 ◼ ► But in its current form where it's just filled with ad slots and, you know, they're only going to turn that up.
01:45:58 ◼ ► But with search ads and then increasing the search ad load and increasing the search ad size, Apple has destroyed organic discovery in the app store.
01:46:06 ◼ ► So no one is going to find this app by just searching for apps like ADHD reminders or whatever.
01:46:14 ◼ ► It's it's going to all have to be paid marketing or, you know, social or referral marketing.
01:46:18 ◼ ► So I know better than to think than than to presume that the app store is going to do anything for me for this because they won't.
01:46:36 ◼ ► Apple makes a bunch of money from app store search ads, and I don't think they're going to want to turn that off.
01:46:43 ◼ ► They're going to only crank it up over time because every single this is the problem of services revenue every single time that there is a bit of a soft corner on the horizon.
01:46:58 ◼ ► And when you already have an ad system in place, you can say, what if we just add an add more ads?
01:47:03 ◼ ► What if we just crank up the ad load a little bit like that's always a knob that is sitting right there.
01:47:15 ◼ ► So anyway, but Louie was good to point out like the sea of checkmarks is not as bad of a thing to avoid as I was assuming it is, because I was thinking of it as a big grid of apps on the app store.
01:47:27 ◼ ► It's all checkmarks, but no one ever sees that and no one's going to see my app in that anyway.
01:47:31 ◼ ► What people see this is on their home screens like that's so that matters a lot more than whatever everyone else is doing.
01:47:44 ◼ ► So at the very least, if you differentiate your icon from the reminders app icon helps it stand out.
01:47:48 ◼ ► I mean, I guess people can hide or delete that one, but like I'm not sure everybody does.
01:48:08 ◼ ► I think the circle branding is a really good idea and I would have thought of that for the reminders icon.
01:48:23 ◼ ► You're like, oh, it's light and it's like a reflecting and lens and surely we can do something with that.
01:48:31 ◼ ► And it would just kind of muddy things up a little bit and it would like mess with your branding because the only things the light intersects with is a circular ring.
01:48:36 ◼ ► And you don't want to like refract that because that messes with the circle and then the inside part, which I think would just look muddy or whatever.
01:48:42 ◼ ► I would have 100 percent gone with the rusty brownish or more maroonish colors of the actual fire and lighthouse, which I know has been repainted several times.
01:48:52 ◼ ► And I don't I honestly don't even know exactly what color it is now, but it's black and white.
01:48:57 ◼ ► Put a link to the Wikipedia page where you can see a picture of it from some time in the past.
01:49:00 ◼ ► The roof of the building has always been kind of maroon and then the lighthouse itself has kind of been brownish, but there's a little bit of a reddish tint, especially at sunset.
01:49:07 ◼ ► I totally would have done that with the color of this because I'm so nostalgic for the fire on lighthouse.
01:49:15 ◼ ► And since you love this dark red color, this is the icon you wanted and that's what you got.
01:49:19 ◼ ► The blue, I would have definitely iterated 30 times in that blue because I got how many how many backgrounds that we have for like shades of gray for my stupid icon.
01:49:31 ◼ ► It's kind of a sky blue, but maybe more of like a baby blue or like a there's some flower that's this color blue that I don't know the name of like and so that I probably would have chosen a different color, but it does go well with the red.
01:49:48 ◼ ► Yeah, overall, like the idea of this and how much better it stands out from the other icons and the thing I like the most about it is the the expansion of the light like you're, you know, cartoon representation of a lighthouse like the let's make the light rays look like they're a cone going outwards.
01:50:04 ◼ ► Right, because that's kind of like what when you were talking about the idea behind the app and everything, the idea of a conical shaped light illuminating things and alerting and saying you've got stuff to do that is expressed by the by the like I'm holding my arms out.
01:50:19 ◼ ► Now as I talk about that is expressed by like the the spreading cone of light, and I also particularly like the white square coming right at you say yes, you yes, you have things to do like coming right into your face.
01:50:34 ◼ ► I went back and forth a few times with them, you know, like tweaking the shapes a little bit here and there.
01:50:38 ◼ ► And you know, there was never there was never any friction going back and forth with them on stuff like they're, you know, they're professionals.
01:50:44 ◼ ► And and so it wasn't there was none of that kind of like that, like, you know, difficult artist dynamic, you know, like there's none of that like attitude.
01:50:58 ◼ ► There was even, you know, at one point I said, hey, let's try it without the circle just being the lighthouse, you know, full.
01:51:03 ◼ ► Full size of the icon and they whipped it together like, oh, yeah, actually, now that you show us that you're right, that is worse.
01:51:18 ◼ ► I think my favorite part of it, as silly as it sounds, might be the circle branding that to tie it in with Overcast.
01:51:24 ◼ ► I really think that's a clever idea that I don't think I would have come up with, but I love now that I see it.
01:51:30 ◼ ► And like when you see these icons, you know, near each other, it just they just look right together.
01:51:37 ◼ ► One of the to wrap this up, one of the things that I said in my like proposals for icons that I always say in all my proposals, the icons are just going to sound wrong or possibly rude.
01:51:47 ◼ ► But it is how I think about the process is that the icon should be better than the app.
01:51:51 ◼ ► Oh, it is like like, you know, whatever you think your app does and how great you think it is or whatever.
01:51:58 ◼ ► You always want an icon that looks like, well, that looks like it's an icon for an even better app than yours.
01:52:02 ◼ ► That is the sign of a good icon where the icon is better than the app where you're like the app is good and I like it and all.
01:52:08 ◼ ► But man, that icon makes it seem like this is going to be the best app in the universe.
01:52:11 ◼ ► And it's like, well, don't you want you don't want them to do that because they're going to be disappointed because your app is not as good as the icon.
01:52:19 ◼ ► Like that's that's why I tell people like, oh, I don't want to spend all this money because if you if you actually pay and don't have a podcast where you give sponsorship slots for your icons like we do,
01:52:26 ◼ ► If you actually pay for your icons like I did for, you know, hyperspace, for example, you're like, oh, that seems like so much money.
01:52:34 ◼ ► Like everyone, you know, you have to have your obviously app has to serve a need and be useful and blah, blah, blah.
01:52:43 ◼ ► But if you only have a very limited amount of money, spend it on the icon icon is so important.
01:52:51 ◼ ► I'm like, that's that that app's OK, but the icon makes it seem so much better than it actually is.
01:52:58 ◼ ► I want your icon to be better than my app, which is not hard because my apps aren't that complicated and amazing.
01:53:04 ◼ ► And the second thing I'll say is and this is the sign of a successful engagement with a designer of any kind is, you know, I guess, you know, it has to fulfill the needs of the thing you're designing or whatever.
01:53:29 ◼ ► It's like, oh, yeah, I should be happier with my icon than I am with yours because those are your icons.
01:54:07 ◼ ► And Tim Hardwick over at MacRumors reports, in macOS Tahoe 26.4, Apple introduced a new security
01:54:14 ◼ ► pop-up that warns Mac users when they paste a command into the Terminal app that could be
01:54:22 ◼ ► That support document and this MacRumors article will both be linked in the show notes.
01:54:26 ◼ ► The support document is called, if your Mac blocks a Terminal command, paste or script.
01:54:37 ◼ ► Scammers use these channels to instruct people to paste malicious commands into Terminal to
01:54:43 ◼ ► This alert helps make sure that you aren't tricked into running a command that you didn't
01:54:47 ◼ ► I think this is interesting that they say specifically, if you don't regularly use Terminal.
01:55:01 ◼ ► This is going to be another annoyance where it's like constantly in my face, warning me
01:55:22 ◼ ► And it also makes me think, okay, well then how is this actually saving me from anything?
01:55:26 ◼ ► Is this security feature actually useful if it's like, oh, I don't want to bother people
01:55:32 ◼ ► I think one of the other things they use to determine whether they should bother you with
01:55:39 ◼ ► Like whether you have Xcode installed as another signal in their formula for should I warn
01:55:49 ◼ ► thinking is the people who are the most vulnerable, the people who don't regularly use a terminal,
01:55:57 ◼ ► How many times have all of us pasted in curl, pipe, you know, curl URL, pipe bash because
01:56:15 ◼ ► of the trustworthiness of some website and the potential consequences of deleting our entire
01:56:20 ◼ ► And we just roll the dice and figure, look, if this website really was malicious and someone
01:56:25 ◼ ► had replaced this install script with a script that exfiltrates all of my data, I probably
01:56:54 ◼ ► Scammers often encourage pasting texts into terminal to try and harm your Mac or compromise
01:56:59 ◼ ► These instructions are commonly offered via websites, chat agents, apps, files, or a phone
01:57:06 ◼ ► Yeah, I like that they try to tell you, like, maybe you're talking to someone on the phone
01:57:27 ◼ ► Because nobody, like, if you don't use a terminal, you don't know what the command is doing.
01:57:30 ◼ ► It's just giving you, hopefully, a microsecond of pause to say, maybe think about this again.
01:57:39 ◼ ► And obviously, the scammers will explicitly direct you, oh, your computer may say this,
01:57:46 ◼ ► Because the social engineers know what they're facing, and they will instruct you that this
01:58:05 ◼ ► If your Mac shows a malware-detected paste-blocked or malicious script-blocked alert, these alerts
01:58:16 ◼ ► And so the difference here is the dialogue says, your copy and paste was blocked because it
01:58:32 ◼ ► But once they find out, hey, this website has been, you know, compromised, and their, you know,
01:58:40 ◼ ► curl URL pipe bash thing now contains malware, hopefully they can quickly add that to the database.
01:58:47 ◼ ► And then if you go and paste it, let's say, you know, eight hours or 24 hours after the
01:58:57 ◼ ► Like, whether it is a compromised, legitimate website or like an obvious malware website with
01:59:01 ◼ ► a URL that looks like a legitimate one but isn't because they have a domain name with like
01:59:09 ◼ ► Terminal they're looking at and comparing about their list of known malware that I hope they're
01:59:16 ◼ ► There's actually, um, there's a story that came out, uh, just today about the Opera web
01:59:27 ◼ ► And this is, this is like the multiple layers of protection, like adding it to terminal.
01:59:33 ◼ ► Um, every little bit of this helps any place where there is an app, uh, or an operating system
01:59:40 ◼ ► or some sort of subsystem where it's in a position to potentially keep track of a list of known
01:59:53 ◼ ► Every time I paste them, it's like this, it's two microseconds, the, the amount of grief
02:00:01 ◼ ► So I heartily endorse this feature, both for the reason I said earlier that I've never had
02:00:06 ◼ ► And the other reason, which is if I ever do do something stupid, I have some chance that
02:00:18 ◼ ► When I was watching WWDC sessions, I think where I saw it first, a couple of people mentioned
02:00:29 ◼ ► something that we, Apple platform developers have been doing manually for many years, which
02:00:37 ◼ ► Um, uh, when Xcode does stuff and builds your app and everything, it has a folder that I don't
02:00:44 ◼ ► It's like a library application support Xcode or library developer Xcode somewhere in your
02:00:49 ◼ ► There is a directory called derived data that Xcode fills with, I would assume intermediary
02:00:54 ◼ ► products of building or anyway, it's like it says data derived from the stuff that you're
02:00:59 ◼ ► Um, and sometimes when you're using Xcode, like your build starts failing or your app won't
02:01:06 ◼ ► And the folk wisdom is, Oh, just delete the contents of your derived data folder and then just rebuild.
02:01:13 ◼ ► And for you, for since, you know, for years and years, uh, uh, Xcode has had a command,
02:01:32 ◼ ► Well, experience has shown that sometimes you hit command shift K and you hit, you hit command
02:01:56 ◼ ► And so in Xcode 27, Apple essentially relented and said, we know everyone is deleting their
02:02:05 ◼ ► So we're going to put a menu command in addition to the existing command shift K command, a new
02:02:10 ◼ ► command that I forget what it's called, like delete derived data or something like that,
02:02:15 ◼ ► And rather than you manually typing an RM command or dragging a thing to the folder or whatever,
02:02:22 ◼ ► And this was a topic of conversation and commentary, sort of like off script commentary, many of
02:02:36 ◼ ► And this kind of reminds me of the sync now button or whatever in messages on Mac OS, where
02:02:43 ◼ ► like if you have iMessage syncing to the cloud messages, I believe is the first app Apple has
02:02:47 ◼ ► made in ages where they added a button that when you click it, it does the syncing like
02:02:54 ◼ ► And that was the whole idea behind syncing and the lack of those buttons is, oh, you should
02:03:14 ◼ ► And it's trying to do what it thinks the right thing to do is saving your battery or waiting
02:03:28 ◼ ► We tried to make a completely transparent system where you would never have to worry about when
02:03:49 ◼ ► Is it like the elevator door close button where it just makes us feel better by disabling
02:03:59 ◼ ► Like the door close elevator button, if it makes people feel better, it's still kind of
02:04:06 ◼ ► So I do still have suspicions about the sync button, but I'm pretty sure it does something
02:04:19 ◼ ► Is it giving up on the notion that like we know there's something wrong with Xcode sometimes
02:04:41 ◼ ► and deleting derived data fixes it, it's very often a sign that something is screwed up about
02:04:52 ◼ ► You haven't expressed a dependency that exists between some submodules such that when you run
02:04:57 ◼ ► a parallel build, if you get lucky and thing that depends on the other thing happens to go
02:05:02 ◼ ► for, you know, the thing that you depend on goes first and then the thing that depends on it
02:05:08 ◼ ► But because builds happen in parallel and you can't guarantee timing, sometimes when you
02:05:19 ◼ ► And that's because you haven't correctly expressed the dependency in your project and you've just
02:05:31 ◼ ► And so I think this is an even more powerful sign where Apple saying, even though this probably
02:05:41 ◼ ► We still know that there are lots of people who are going to delete the contents of their
02:05:48 ◼ ► And even though it's kind of like wrong, like I'm sure that's why this feature hasn't been
02:05:57 ◼ ► And even if it is wrong, shouldn't we just make our app helpful to our users, even though
02:06:05 ◼ ► And that, I think, is one of the most hopeful signs from Apple software design department that
02:06:11 ◼ ► I've seen in years right up there with the sync button and messages where they are willingly
02:06:16 ◼ ► giving us a feature, even when, you know, the problem is not their fault, just to try to
02:06:28 ◼ ► I think the next iteration of this is, hey, please find all the dependency problems in our
02:06:34 ◼ ► So I give delete derived data a thumbs up, even though it's it's probably still highlighting
02:06:50 ◼ ► It's frequent enough that it annoys me every time I do it, because then I have to, you know,
02:06:54 ◼ ► I typically can get by with what I need by doing what is a command shift K or whatever we talked
02:07:14 ◼ ► This is not even like this is a thing like I've used the the app DevCleaner, which is a fun
02:07:20 ◼ ► It's like a little app for the Mac that basically like helps you clear out and find like huge
02:07:51 ◼ ► But yeah, this basically integrates, you know, some some of that functionality is Xcode.
02:07:58 ◼ ► It's it is very rare for me to have a problem that is not solved by either cleaning the build
02:08:06 ◼ ► Yeah, my main use of delete derived data is with betas because my luck with betas building
02:08:20 ◼ ► But when things are buggy and broken and betas of Xcode on beta OSes, delete derived data is
02:08:38 ◼ ► So maybe I'm, you know, cleaning it out as a matter of course, because DevCleaner actually
02:10:10 ◼ ► So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T, Marco Arman, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-
02:10:40 ◼ ► than i have i don't think there's i know you're snarking i don't think there's anything to know
02:10:45 ◼ ► i will say that if you haven't listened to the new album um you should do so of course i have
02:10:50 ◼ ► in fact so i what what uh what i've been told in my household is that uh the the music of my
02:10:58 ◼ ► bands that i like is more tolerable when it's their studio recordings than when it's their
02:11:02 ◼ ► live recordings um and so the the day i was told that i immediately started playing in the car
02:11:09 ◼ ► the new album which i it's big modern right that's the new album yes yes i'm trying to it's very yellow
02:11:14 ◼ ► um yes yeah so that and i believe that was immediately regretted by uh the other members
02:11:21 ◼ ► of the family but uh but yes i i do like the new album a lot yeah so um i would i would check that
02:11:27 ◼ ► out again like listen to it on the way down or something uh my personal favorites if you're
02:11:31 ◼ ► listening uh you know for those of you who are perhaps not as familiar with goose i i really enjoy
02:11:39 ◼ ► it's very inspired by 80s but not straight 80s if that makes any sense like it's got some of that
02:11:46 ◼ ► vibe from the 80s but it's not like oh this could have been recorded you know 40 years ago or whatever
02:11:51 ◼ ► uh good to be they often do a very extended and very good jam on there in fact one of my favorite
02:11:57 ◼ ► jams of the year so far is a good to be um from i think uh florida maybe i'd have to look it up
02:12:03 ◼ ► uh and torero which i did hear in virginia beach and is also uh excellent so those are my three
02:12:09 ◼ ► favorites off the new album um no it's exactly what you what you expect like when we went um it was
02:12:15 ◼ ► great when we went in october now there's obviously a little bit newer newer and different material when i
02:12:21 ◼ ► went a few weeks ago um i think we talked about on the show but we were in the general admission section
02:12:26 ◼ ► which very glad i tried very glad to never do that again because i'm old for that now i am way too old
02:12:33 ◼ ► for that oh yeah i always buy seats yep yep and uh suffice to say that marco is returning to virginia
02:12:38 ◼ ► to go uh with me to see fish i see fish jeezy peasy he would he would have loved that next year we'll see
02:12:44 ◼ ► fish together yeah we'll see you need one more year of goose before you're ready for that right
02:12:50 ◼ ► right uh but anyway but uh we we worked together uh we actually were on the phone with each other
02:12:55 ◼ ► trying to figure out which one of us had the better seats and it turned out that i almost got the marco
02:12:59 ◼ ► seats from from uh when we saw them in richmond which is to say the very front row of the seated
02:13:04 ◼ ► section but behind all the lunatics in general admission so uh no i'm i'm very much looking forward
02:13:10 ◼ ► to you going uh depending on what i'm doing this evening um i might be able to actually sit down
02:13:15 ◼ ► and watch it because again as we've talked about numerous times i won't belabor this but uh if you
02:13:20 ◼ ► go to nugs.net you can pay for a subscription and you can uh actually watch live broadcasts of many bands
02:13:27 ◼ ► including but not limited to goose um and so uh i will hopefully be able to see some of that show
02:13:33 ◼ ► tonight and certainly within 48 hours of it being done uh you and i can go and either grab it from nugs
02:13:40 ◼ ► or you know grab it from band camp or whatever so i'm very much looking forward to it to the degree
02:13:44 ◼ ► you can share what is the transit scenario to get you there are you training the whole way
02:13:49 ◼ ► no i'm i'm literally taking i'm taking a ferry in like an hour to ferry to the to the mainland john
02:13:56 ◼ ► um and then uh just driving for you know yeah driving two hours to new jersey that's the mainland
02:14:03 ◼ ► new jersey sure okay is this is an outdoor it's like a i don't know the venue is it an outdoor thing
02:14:10 ◼ ► uh i don't actually i wanted to look that up before i left it's a pnc arts center i forgot i think it's
02:14:16 ◼ ► indoor oh no it's outdoor yeah well that bring bring your fancy sunscreen oh yeah oh that's true well i
02:14:22 ◼ ► mean it does start at seven so it's i'm not going to need that much sunscreen but i'm still out of
02:14:27 ◼ ► so maybe you don't need it but like yeah i wonder if it's going to be because it's it's hot
02:14:30 ◼ ► hot today at least up here it's hot yeah that's what that's why the reason i was going to look up the
02:14:33 ◼ ► venue before i left is like do i wear do i bring pants if it's maybe like a big indoor air conditioned
02:14:38 ◼ ► thing maybe i'd bring pants but no i'm bringing shorts it's it's a shorts kind of venue and this
02:14:42 ◼ ► time i'm not going to have my pocket in my front shorts your wallet you mean yeah oh yeah right
02:14:45 ◼ ► sorry did you get your replacement wallet yet or is it still coming i sure did i i got my new
02:14:50 ◼ ► i should link to it in the show notes um dream of the 90s is still alive marco you have a wallet
02:14:54 ◼ ► chain i don't think that was ever your style but you know maybe it could be slim fold that's it it's
02:15:01 ◼ ► the slim fold wallet um yeah i will link to it this is this is the one i got the um the micro tyvek but
02:15:08 ◼ ► otherwise the microsoft shell is what i've been using all these years tyvek your wallet is made of house
02:15:13 ◼ ► wrap yeah the tyvek just is even lighter weight but here the the soft shell is like the the more
02:15:18 ◼ ► normal looking one i like this because it still allows me to carry like some cash which i don't
02:15:26 ◼ ► use a lot of cash during the rest of the year but on fire island a lot of things here use cash and when
02:15:30 ◼ ► you go to europe you like to give hundreds of dollars to the pickpockets yeah well you know you have to
02:15:34 ◼ ► support the local economy anyway these wallets are great because they um they weigh nothing and i think
02:15:42 ◼ ► this is originally from dan provost of studio neat i think i heard about it from him first this is a
02:15:47 ◼ ► fantastic kind of minimal very lightweight wallet um i very much enjoy it what color is yours orange
02:15:54 ◼ ► well so i actually did i got myself the orange one of the of the microsoft shell also because i figure
02:16:00 ◼ ► like i think it's a limited edition so i wanted to get that but the tyvek one i'm using currently is the
02:16:04 ◼ ► reddish one the um the red pattern uh to go back a brief step to goose uh because that's all i ever talk
02:16:10 ◼ ► about these days um i noticed because i follow them on instagram and they had i either posted or
02:16:16 ◼ ► reposted that i believe was pnc uh the pnc center had said because of the heat you can bring i think it
02:16:24 ◼ ► was up to two water bottles for a sum total of a gallon of water it's gonna be big lines in the bathroom
02:16:31 ◼ ► right i don't know what it is in sensible units it's probably a few liters but like a lot of water can come
02:16:38 ◼ ► with you in order in order to survive yeah especially because like i mean look not only
02:16:42 ◼ ► is it a concert it's a jam band concert so there's a good deal of drug use going on and many of those
02:16:47 ◼ ► drugs make you very thirsty so i i think that's probably very good advice also it's gonna go on
02:16:52 ◼ ► for a long time yeah oh yes yeah i mean honestly if i were you i really would bring at least one
02:16:57 ◼ ► large water or you may double check my math on this but i would bring a large water bottle because
02:17:01 ◼ ► it is going to be toasty for sure have you ever seen the i saw somebody the other day here at the
02:17:06 ◼ ► beach with one of those like around the neck personal i guess air conditioners or fans yes it's like a fan
02:17:14 ◼ ► or something yep yep a little neck air conditioner yeah does that do anything oh they they do but they're
02:17:19 ◼ ► like the ones that cool you also tend to be heavy because they have to be powerful and they need
02:17:24 ◼ ► batteries and so it's like it's a trade-off like do you want a heavy thing on your shoulders and
02:17:27 ◼ ► around your neck in exchange for the cooling uh i don't know it it looked like something that was
02:17:32 ◼ ► really not worth the the size and bulk but i i mean maybe they maybe it's one of those like
02:17:37 ◼ ► secret gadget hacks that you just that work really well and no one really talks about it but it did not
02:17:43 ◼ ► look that way i mean you just need someone else you just need your your uh assistant to hold it uh
02:17:49 ◼ ► you know so it's pointing at your neck and then you just spritz some water on it you know whatever
02:17:52 ◼ ► it takes to stay cool but yeah for what it's worth aaron got me uh for christmas i think it was
02:17:57 ◼ ► kind of as a gag gift but kind of not it's a fan that has two belt clips on it just hear me out
02:18:05 ◼ ► hear me out has two belt clips on it one of which is facing like the u of the belt clip is facing
02:18:10 ◼ ► upward and the u of the belt clip the other one is facing downward so you can fan your feet no hold on
02:18:15 ◼ ► so on either side of the fan there's you know there's a clip and the idea is you clip one side
02:18:21 ◼ ► to your shorts or whatever and the other side gets clipped to your shirt so what this does is it
02:18:27 ◼ ► blasts air up your back huh i probably look like a complete freaking moron on the one or two times
02:18:34 ◼ ► i've ever used this but it is delightful because you're getting cold air blown right up your back
02:18:40 ◼ ► or perhaps your front if you wanted to put it there or whatever uh but it is incredible the difference it
02:18:46 ◼ ► makes even if it's just blowing warm air the fact that the air is moving really really helps can you
02:18:51 ◼ ► mount it upside down and blow air into your pants you probably could yeah i don't see any reason why
02:18:54 ◼ ► not um you i will see if i can dig up a link for the show notes no promises but uh that actually
02:19:00 ◼ ► works far better than you would think it would okay that's and and i feel like too like yes you
02:19:05 ◼ ► probably do look ridiculous but when it's that hot fashion is out the window like right shorts are
02:19:11 ◼ ► already a pretty significant fashion compromise you do what you got to do when it's when it gets
02:19:17 ◼ ► that hot it's like all right you know and and also like especially in this context like at a jam band
02:19:21 ◼ ► concert you're not going to be the least fashionable person in any row don't worry yep i think i did find
02:19:27 ◼ ► i don't have it next to me but i'm pretty sure i found it for the show notes uh i just linked it in
02:19:31 ◼ ► the chat room as well uh so you can check that out it again i probably not not doing the world's
02:19:35 ◼ ► greatest job describing it but you can sort of kind of get the gist as you look at all these
02:19:38 ◼ ► different pictures um actually one of them is shown as like having it around the neck which i
02:19:43 ◼ ► don't recommend but you can see that there's um if you look at like the fourth image they show three
02:19:48 ◼ ► different wearing styles and the one i'm talking about is basically having your shirt tucked into it
02:19:53 ◼ ► so that you're blowing air up your shirt it's actually really nice i love the the picture of the
02:19:57 ◼ ► guy holding the delivery box unimaginable cooling effect look how happy he is yep so much like how happy
02:20:06 ◼ ► is to have this photoshopped onto him yeah yeah right oh yeah yeah i like the fake photoshop uh sweat on
02:20:13 ◼ ► the left hand side of this image as well yeah also he's dripping sweat but his shirt looks pretty dry