00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is upgrade episode 626 the june 29th 2026 this episode is brought to you by keeper
00:00:17 ◼ ► century and claude my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by jason snell hi jason hi mike did you know
00:00:29 ◼ ► we are in the summer of betas as well as the summer of fun and i have found that now that apple names
00:00:38 ◼ ► every os after the year after they announced the os that i have completely lost track of what year it
00:00:44 ◼ ► is and i just keep keep saying and writing that it's 2027 now because i am in 27 mode i'm in 27
00:00:50 ◼ ► mode now as far as i'm concerned the new year starts the beginning of june apple says it's 27 now and i
00:00:57 ◼ ► go yes it is it is now 27 maybe we should do that now like we just we just run the calendar from june
00:01:04 ◼ ► to june and we just make model year yeah 27 that kind of stuff uh my the the biggest problem i'm having
00:01:11 ◼ ► is not so much that it is trying to remember i can never remember what the last version of ios was
00:01:19 ◼ ► before 26 before 26 before 26 yeah i know and i was at 18 i'm gonna just say yes because i don't know
00:01:25 ◼ ► and it's also made it significantly more complicated now for me to remember what iphone model it is as
00:01:33 ◼ ► well oh right i'm struggling with both of those it's 17 it's all those numbers what's the and what what the
00:01:39 ◼ ► a series processor is inside it they they have the opportunity to sync them up but they never took it
00:01:44 ◼ ► and i didn't and i wish that they they would and i think we're now too late because they're not going
00:01:49 ◼ ► to do it this year they're not going to do it next year because they're not going to call the iphone
00:01:53 ◼ ► 20 the iphone 28 28 or whatever and so i think 29 i think we're past it i think the closest we have is
00:02:01 ◼ ► 2030 which actually isn't that far away and that might be the closest we have but an iphone 30 sounds
00:02:07 ◼ ► terrible anyway so yeah it's all gone but anyway i have a snow talk question for you jason yoni wants
00:02:13 ◼ ► to know will you be lighting your house for the fourth of july and will the tube man be making an
00:02:18 ◼ ► appearance this weekend i have permanent lights so i just and and the people who make the lights have a
00:02:23 ◼ ► yeah so we will you will you light them with the with the colors you know well i mean yes the the people
00:02:28 ◼ ► who make the lights have a whole patriotic fourth of july set of pre-programmed things that i've put in
00:02:34 ◼ ► but i mean i it's it's lit up most nights honestly oh yeah i program it with various things that's fun
00:02:40 ◼ ► we got we got the pride rainbow going in june very good um we had we have some usa when the usa soccer
00:02:48 ◼ ► team is playing and then uh in the world cup and then uh yeah we're gonna we're gonna do uh third and
00:02:54 ◼ ► fourth of july will be patriotic patriotic observance and um and to answer the second part of the question
00:03:01 ◼ ► um why would i buy an american flag themed tube man if i were not to display him exactly around
00:03:08 ◼ ► independence day why why would i do that yeah so i gotta basically he's why don't you have him up for
00:03:14 ◼ ► the whole world cup well i mean he makes look the blower makes a lot of noise it's kind of annoying
00:03:23 ◼ ► i don't want it up there all the time um so it'll be yeah i'll i'll put him up on the fourth of july
00:03:29 ◼ ► that'll be good mr flag man will be out there flag tube man waving doing patriotic observance of
00:03:35 ◼ ► waving his arms around i would like that feels about right what is a more patriotic observance of america
00:03:47 ◼ ► unpredictable does he have a plan probably not is he actually going anywhere or is he anchored to the
00:03:52 ◼ ► spot he's gonna make a big song and dance about it and really let you know about it and a lot of noise
00:03:57 ◼ ► so we're gonna know generating some noise yeah if you would like to send in a question to help us open
00:04:04 ◼ ► a future episode of the show go to upgradefeedback.com and you can do that jason the final days
00:04:10 ◼ ► remain in the designed in california kickstarter campaign this is the last time of gradients that
00:04:16 ◼ ► we will ask you to go to designed.fm to back our kickstarter campaign despite all of our saying very
00:04:25 ◼ ► nicely that uh we know that we stuck a bunch of extra free content featuring us in your feed but we're
00:04:31 ◼ ► gonna get out of your way now um we did get one angry person who was like why are you sticking all
00:04:37 ◼ ► this stuff in my feed i haven't seen that i you know i meant to mention this i did the mike i did
00:04:42 ◼ ► the mike hurley thing which is it was a really mean comment in the upgrade feedback and i just deleted it
00:04:46 ◼ ► you just got rid of it okay i just got rid of it because i didn't you didn't need to be burdened with
00:04:50 ◼ ► it i saw it it was just a mean person it's like well congratulations um we appreciate everybody's
00:04:57 ◼ ► patience as we said and uh we look suffice it to say we planned a bunch of stuff for the last week
00:05:04 ◼ ► of the campaign because we thought this is the thing that we're going to need to push us over the
00:05:08 ◼ ► top to sixty thousand dollars we're going to need it we're going to need jason's going to need to be
00:05:12 ◼ ► on the talk show and we're going to get daring fireball to chime in because he likes pushing
00:05:15 ◼ ► people over the top and we're going to put john syracuse in a regular episode and get them to talk
00:05:20 ◼ ► about that on atp and we need everybody pushing so that we can get to our goal um which when we met
00:05:25 ◼ ► our goal like on day one um all those plans remained intact so here we are but this is it uh
00:05:32 ◼ ► ends uh wednesday july 1st at at uh 8 a.m pacific yep uh we wanted to give ourselves again
00:05:40 ◼ ► enough time for this episode to get people in right under the under the wire um and then if you want to
00:05:47 ◼ ► wait longer actually post campaign you will be able to buy a membership at full price at full price so
00:05:54 ◼ ► if you want to if you want to get it for ten dollars off which is what it is on the on the
00:05:58 ◼ ► campaign you have until july 1st but after that if you missed it and you're kicking yourself because we
00:06:04 ◼ ► don't have the membership site up at relay yet for the proper once the podcast launches in the interim
00:06:09 ◼ ► there's like a post campaign pledge but it won't be at the at the at the kickstarter campaign
00:06:13 ◼ ► price it'll be ten dollars more yep now i'm just adding a to do that i need to get the uh member
00:06:19 ◼ ► for plans so up before the campaign ends we have someone send people we got a lot of plans there's
00:06:24 ◼ ► a lot of things happening but yes lots of things but anyway thank you for everybody's patience and
00:06:28 ◼ ► the exciting thing is um you're going to get me and mike uh twice a week in the fall and for a year
00:06:35 ◼ ► plus plus uh where we're going to talk about what what do you like to say mike we're going to talk
00:06:41 ◼ ► about what's what's happening on mondays we talk about where we are and where we're going and then
00:06:46 ◼ ► on whatever day let's say wednesday thursday we had a bunch of people write in say there's too many
00:06:51 ◼ ► podcasts on thursday yeah so we haven't decided yet so we'll just say wednesday for now we'll say and
00:06:55 ◼ ► on wednesday we'll talk about how we got here so that's that's the combo that you get from us now and
00:07:00 ◼ ► will be getting from us for upgrading design in california that's the mike hurley marketing prowess
00:07:06 ◼ ► right there and so since we last spoke uh to you all we passed our final stretch goal of 250 000
00:07:14 ◼ ► which is i've i've run out of words just understand that we're incredibly appreciative i don't have words
00:07:20 ◼ ► anymore we didn't have a 250 000 stretch goal our final stretch goal was 200 but we're at 264 now
00:07:26 ◼ ► wait did that happen in in a week since yeah okay i think it happened last monday my gosh okay yeah so
00:07:33 ◼ ► anyway that that means that we're going to do events in san francisco and london yep um and and we're we
00:07:40 ◼ ► got look we're we're working we're we're working hard and planning to work hard for the next year plus
00:07:46 ◼ ► to make this uh really good yeah so and we will fulfill our our promises and also make a good podcast
00:07:52 ◼ ► and just as one piece of follow-up uh so we ask people to write in with suggestions because we have
00:07:57 ◼ ► two feeds that we need to name for members right so the podcast is called design in california we have
00:08:03 ◼ ► the members feed which will have some kind of name like we have upgrade plus and then we're also going to
00:08:08 ◼ ► have a bonus feed where we will publish additional bonus content many people wrote in to suggest one
00:08:15 ◼ ► more thing as a name for the bonus feed we're going to use that because it's that's that's it that's the
00:08:20 ◼ ► name yeah we still need to work out something for the regular members feed chad wrote in and said
00:08:25 ◼ ► designed in california extended kind of like the apple extended keyboard which i thought was fun but
00:08:30 ◼ ► it doesn't work for this show because it won't be extended there isn't going to be bonus content
00:08:35 ◼ ► in the episodes like in the regular episodes right they'll be shorter because they won't have ads in
00:08:41 ◼ ► them and so we're still we're still going to work on that so if anybody has an idea for an so this will
00:08:46 ◼ ► be designing california something right yeah it might and it may just be plus or something people
00:08:54 ◼ ► should write that many people wrote in and said it's it is it's a shame for you to i think someone said
00:08:59 ◼ ► to dangle made in china or assembled in china in front of us and not give it i i agree with you
00:09:05 ◼ ► but we can't call the bucket it's not the name of the show and so like it would be a bit a bit odd
00:09:11 ◼ ► yeah so zoe said se which that is a a pretty good one i like that um yeah and that's um that's what i
00:09:19 ◼ ► use for incomparable is uh we the the members up version of the incomparable is the incomparable
00:09:24 ◼ ► special edition so if you have a suggestion write in with that upgrade feedback.com but please
00:09:30 ◼ ► if you want to support this show if you want to get the membership at a year at discount or any of our
00:09:35 ◼ ► physical rewards we're adding stickers for free to everybody that gets a physical reward so it'll be
00:09:39 ◼ ► like a little sticker pack now that is just as a thank you for helping us get so far um so go to
00:09:44 ◼ ► designed.fm you can back the kickstarter campaign i'm really like you know at some point i i think it
00:09:52 ◼ ► might be fun on the show to talk about like where does this money go like because people have asked these
00:09:57 ◼ ► kinds of questions because for us a lot of it is going into making the show better but it will make
00:10:01 ◼ ► more sense for us to talk about that down the line when we can show you the things that we're doing
00:10:05 ◼ ► yeah but the fact that we have had such incredible support means that this is a project that can grow
00:10:12 ◼ ► past what we had originally hoped it could be and and i think you're going to see that in the effort
00:10:18 ◼ ► that we put in so thank you so much to everybody who has shown their support for us um it really means
00:10:24 ◼ ► this is a lot this will not be the last time we talk about design in california that's for sure but
00:10:34 ◼ ► should we do a little details jason uh i think my answer is perfect so 27.2 betas dropped during the
00:10:45 ◼ ► recording of the show last week and there's a series of refinements there isn't any kind of
00:10:49 ◼ ► groundbreaking thing in in this beta i would say that overall the performance of the operating i'm
00:10:57 ◼ ► using ios only is is very strong still like i i it doesn't feel like i'm using a beta honestly except
00:11:03 ◼ ► i have this random bug sometimes where the keyboard doesn't appear oh the keyboard is broken are you
00:11:10 ◼ ► having that too okay on the ipad the keyboard to open sideways sometimes it sticks that's the part
00:11:19 ◼ ► that kills me i used to have this as a bug like six months ago and it's back now in the betas where
00:11:22 ◼ ► you tap a key and then you let your finger come up and it stays tapped and it just sits there and the
00:11:29 ◼ ► entire device is is just paused while we find out what is going to happen to that key and if it's a key
00:11:36 ◼ ► with a um with a an accent underneath it then the accents pop up and that's the big reveal is that
00:11:43 ◼ ► it's going to be an accent instead but it's like yeah the keyboard there's lots of keyboard bugs that's
00:11:47 ◼ ► what i've discovered this time on the ipad certainly but um but generally um my my solution was actually
00:11:53 ◼ ► to install a couple third-party keyboards so that if i get really desperate and i'm in one of those
00:11:58 ◼ ► keyboard traps i will just switch to a third-party keyboard for a while and forget that i'm forget my
00:12:03 ◼ ► pain of the of the actual keyboard but generally yeah it works it works fine it works uh it works
00:12:08 ◼ ► pretty well i've got on my i got on all my devices at this point it's on my phone wow it's on my ipad
00:12:14 ◼ ► and it's on my mac so about your apple watch um and it's on my apple watch so you're doing the whole thing
00:12:19 ◼ ► the whole thing i'm all all the way in no time to wait gotta do it writing tools were added in 27.2
00:12:27 ◼ ► because they didn't exist uh in point in the point one beta the first beta uh so now there is a little
00:12:35 ◼ ► siri icon or write with siri prompts in the keyboard all the time which i think might be a little
00:12:40 ◼ ► aggressive um the amount that it shows what i haven't gotten yet is any kind of ui for good grammar
00:12:51 ◼ ► checking now there is an option to proofread text in the write with siri ui but i have not seemed to
00:12:58 ◼ ► be able to get it to work yet like it looks like it does something but then it doesn't offer me any
00:13:04 ◼ ► suggestions well isn't that a beta for you yeah and so it's this is what i want it still isn't doing it
00:13:11 ◼ ► but i still have my fingers crossed that i'm going to get it uh because it will i'm just gonna have to
00:13:16 ◼ ► wait and see how it goes and the one note that i have about uh i'm continuing to use siri ai a lot
00:13:23 ◼ ► like i'm using it a lot and i have been nothing but impressed so far um it is falling for some of the
00:13:32 ◼ ► typical traps that a lot of llms fall for um like i had to look up uh something idina wanted me to look
00:13:41 ◼ ► something up for her and i just asked siri ai and it gave me a list of companies that provided a
00:13:45 ◼ ► service we needed and she looked into a bit more she's like i can't find anything online about this
00:13:51 ◼ ► company one of the companies except for a blog post that they wrote giving a list of the top five
00:13:58 ◼ ► companies to provide that service where they put themselves at the top it's like this isn't a siri
00:14:02 ◼ ► problem that is an lm problem because that article was written to trick the ai right because ai's love
00:14:08 ◼ ► a list of a list and so they you know and it's like oh this one's the best it's like yes says the
00:14:13 ◼ ► company you know but that kind of stuff is like it just is what it is but overall i've been really
00:14:20 ◼ ► impressed and like i i asked it a question today that i so simple but i know old siri would not give
00:14:27 ◼ ► me i wanted because you know the kickstart is counting down right and i wanted to confirm the
00:14:32 ◼ ► time and it said like 56 hours left and so i asked what is the time 56 hours from now and it gave me the
00:14:39 ◼ ► answer that is the kind of thing that i know old siri would just be like here's the time right now
00:14:44 ◼ ► um and so i i continue to be impressed with the simple stuff and also some of the more complex stuff
00:14:50 ◼ ► i think it's uh i think it's really good i think it's really good yeah yeah um similarly it's i mean
00:14:56 ◼ ► it's a work in progress but um but i think it's going pretty well one of the things on the mac that
00:15:02 ◼ ► i've noticed is so they are apple is in a multi-year process that they aren't talking about but it's very
00:15:09 ◼ ► clear about where they're trying to sort of reform the mac menu bar which is funny because they should
00:15:14 ◼ ► have done it when they put the notch in the hardware and i think it is yet another thing we could put in
00:15:19 ◼ ► the list of disconnections between the hardware and software groups at apple like the touch bar being this
00:15:25 ◼ ► amazing invention of the hardware group and the software groups like yeah we're not interested
00:15:29 ◼ ► in that yeah it's just like you can't do that you can't manage it that way it's actually one of those
00:15:33 ◼ ► things about john turn is being put in charge though i think that's not going to happen again right
00:15:37 ◼ ► because he's got he got burned by it multiple times where they made hardware and then the software
00:15:41 ◼ ► people basically didn't care yeah so when they did the notch in the in the laptop screens they should
00:15:47 ◼ ► have had proper menu bar management built into the operating system now that they've got a clipboard
00:15:52 ◼ ► history it's the next one on the list of like why can you not do why are there all of these utilities
00:15:57 ◼ ► like bartender and there are many others now that allow you to manage your menu bar especially after
00:16:04 ◼ ► apple want people want developers to put more things in the menu bar right yes and so part of this is that
00:16:11 ◼ ► there's a new thing in control center for menu items that can live in control center or they can live in the
00:16:18 ◼ ► menu bar and that's that's the way forward but the problem is so many apps don't use that system
00:16:23 ◼ ► and apple has not supplied as far as i can tell a a simple way for people who have an existing menu
00:16:30 ◼ ► bar item to say can you make that be a thing that also fits the control center system because that would
00:16:36 ◼ ► solve this because then apple people don't know this i wrote about it last year like you can create
00:16:41 ◼ ► multiple icons in your menu bar using base apple os base mac os stuff and then put different items in
00:16:50 ◼ ► it from the control center or you can put them in the menu bar so they built a menu bar manager
00:16:54 ◼ ► that allows you to put things on the menu bar or allows you to put things in a sub menu off of the
00:16:59 ◼ ► menu bar but every menu bar item made before last year doesn't work with it but even if even with this
00:17:06 ◼ ► system i would still want things in my menu bar and it is a constant frustration to me that they're
00:17:11 ◼ ► hiding behind the notch yeah so so this this goes further so um one of the nice features of a lot of
00:17:18 ◼ ► these menu bar managers is the ability to create a collapsed area to the left of your key items so that
00:17:25 ◼ ► you can either mouse over or do a keyboard shortcut or click on an expander and see all of them but then
00:17:30 ◼ ► otherwise they go away um so in mac os 27 in golden gate there is at least some management of the menu
00:17:41 ◼ ► bar now happening involving things that are going to be hidden under the notch okay they have started
00:17:47 ◼ ► to make that a priority i would say how many years has it been five years too late five years that they've
00:17:55 ◼ ► been like yeah you know the notch is there whatever um so that's good but my other note here is it has
00:18:02 ◼ ► broken every menu bar based app to a certain degree and all the menu bar managers are broken
00:18:07 ◼ ► so like i'm using an app called melt um which is a um it's a melt i think it's called melt um
00:18:19 ◼ ► and it's it's a it's a fork of ice um yeah yeah it's it's called melt it's a fork of ice which was
00:18:28 ◼ ► a menu bar manager that was a free alternative to bartender that seems to have been abandoned but melt
00:18:33 ◼ ► has gotten picked up because it's open source and they're working on that and they are working on a
00:18:37 ◼ ► fix now they have a beta what running that runs on golden gate but like it broke um or is it thaw
00:18:45 ◼ ► maybe it's thaw there's melt and there's thaw yeah thaw is the one i'm using that's the one i'm using
00:18:49 ◼ ► okay thaw uh t-h-a-w and it's good and they're working on a beta that will fix it so so this is
00:18:56 ◼ ► just an example where like you can see like where apple touches the os sometimes those are the things
00:19:02 ◼ ► that just totally break for third-party apps and it's fine it's a beta third-party apps are going
00:19:07 ◼ ► to break don't get mad about it i see i see people getting mad about it and it's like don't get mad
00:19:11 ◼ ► about it you're in a beta things will break but i think it's interesting that i like that apple is
00:19:17 ◼ ► giving attention to the mac menu bar i wrote about this last year and said it's one of the unique
00:19:22 ◼ ► things about the mac they should pay attention to it they should care about it they should put some
00:19:27 ◼ ► modern os effort into a thing that's basically been laying there for 20 years great are they doing then
00:19:33 ◼ ► that that like what is the management options oh you know you're asking me the thing that i don't
00:19:39 ◼ ► actually know the details of because i haven't investigated it i think it does a little expand
00:19:44 ◼ ► collapse thing okay where if you if things are going to collide to the menu bar but they're making
00:19:49 ◼ ► an attempt to make it that the the notch doesn't break excellent your stuff because i i just but it's
00:19:55 ◼ ► broken everything in the meantime i stopped using a menu bar manager because they all kept breaking
00:20:00 ◼ ► and now i just suffer through when i'm using my mac in uh laptop mode because when i've got my studio
00:20:05 ◼ ► display i don't have so many menu bar icons that it's a problem but when i'm using it on my mac every
00:20:11 ◼ ► time i start a timer in timery timery just disappears it's just gone it's just gone uh because it's too
00:20:18 ◼ ► large for the for the for the preview that i have like for the yeah my um swift bar is behaving weirdly
00:20:24 ◼ ► um it works but it's you know it lives in the menu bar and it's behaving weirdly um but it's a uh yeah
00:20:33 ◼ ► it's it's i'm glad they're giving it attention but but again i have to say it like one it's great that
00:20:42 ◼ ► you've got this new system based on control center but at least for this first year nobody's using that
00:20:48 ◼ ► system like nobody's using that system and and i wonder if there is either a third-party opportunity
00:20:55 ◼ ► here or really for apple to find a way to allow classic menu bar items menu extras i think they're
00:21:03 ◼ ► called to be used in that way because then you've got menu bar management built into the os and you can
00:21:11 ◼ ► take a lot of your things that you need to look at occasionally but not all the time and you could
00:21:15 ◼ ► stash them in a sub menu and then you're you're not having that huge menu up there it may not be
00:21:20 ◼ ► technically possible but like that's that's my frustration is that is that they're very slowly
00:21:24 ◼ ► building this out i'm glad they are but it's happened way too late given the existence of the notch
00:21:30 ◼ ► and um it is breaking things in the meantime so that's my number one this that's this week's
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00:24:08 ◼ ► so last week on monday we spoke about the possibility of apple raising their prices and on thursday
00:24:16 ◼ ► they raised those prices yeah they did uh you probably don't need us to go into detail on this
00:24:23 ◼ ► now no um but essentially prices have been raised on a basically all product lines except the iphone and
00:24:30 ◼ ► apple watch anywhere from 15 to 50 percent yeah yeah but like yes airpods is another major max max
00:24:38 ◼ ► ipads apple tv vision pro all home pods home pods yeah uh so the it tracks anywhere from 15 to 50 percent
00:24:46 ◼ ► for the price increases depending on the product a couple of headlining ones the macbook neo is now
00:24:52 ◼ ► 6.99 to start um many macs and ipads up by hundreds of dollars some more and the apple tv has been
00:25:00 ◼ ► increased in price by up to 50 percent yeah here's apple's full statement the consumer electronics
00:25:07 ◼ ► industry is facing an unprecedented challenge the rapid extent expansion of ai data centers has created an
00:25:13 ◼ ► extraordinary surge in demand for memory and storage we have never seen a component price increase this much
00:25:20 ◼ ► this quickly we have shielded our customers from these increases so far but we have now reached a
00:25:25 ◼ ► point where we need to begin raising prices on a number of products including today's increases for
00:25:30 ◼ ► ipad and mac we know this is not welcome news and we are working tirelessly to find solutions
00:25:36 ◼ ► there is i've started you're probably seeing this too but there is now a sentiment in wider media
00:25:41 ◼ ► that apple are being greedy and should cut into their profits to bear the brunt further have you seen this
00:25:47 ◼ ► much yeah sure um this is so i'll put a link in the show notes to a verge piece where they're kind of
00:25:55 ◼ ► making the comments on that they're kind of making the argument that argument and it is an argument that
00:26:02 ◼ ► is harder to defend considering the many record quarters that apple has experienced right like it's hard
00:26:07 ◼ ► to suggest that they couldn't cut their profit down a little bit couldn't couldn't is it's true they could
00:26:16 ◼ ► yeah i so yeah these these price increases stink nobody likes them although you could argue that given
00:26:26 ◼ ► inflation apple's been holding the line against price increases for five years at least that's that is a
00:26:31 ◼ ► choice that they decided to make right yes they could have been raising prices all along here and
00:26:36 ◼ ► they didn't but they finally are like okay we got to do it because they really like having stable prices
00:26:39 ◼ ► and having the the game be they increase their margins they maintain their margins even with the
00:26:45 ◼ ► stable prices because as they release products they have ways of like releasing some more expensive
00:26:50 ◼ ► products and changing the skews and there's games they play but they can't play that game anymore so
00:26:54 ◼ ► they did this uh or they won't play that game anymore it's reached a breaking point i i would boil down
00:27:00 ◼ ► this argument though this argument is i think is embedded in the idea that this is temporary but this
00:27:07 ◼ ► is this is a long-term change and it it doesn't just have to do with the ram prices but it also has to do
00:27:13 ◼ ► with inflation and the cost of technology and there may be a time when it's different but it's not going
00:27:18 ◼ ► to be for the next few years i i i'm not being cynical here i i want to i want to just take a step
00:27:26 ◼ ► back and say this is actually just the argument that apple products should cost less and apple should
00:27:32 ◼ ► make less profit that's the argument this is not an argument about in this in this economy right
00:27:38 ◼ ► in this economy you raise prices but you're so profitable this is a this is a an extraordinary
00:27:44 ◼ ► circumstance you should eat the margins and keep your products what they where they are even though
00:27:50 ◼ ► it'll eat your margins and could they yes could they yes but i would argue that the actual argument
00:27:57 ◼ ► being made here is apple products should just be cheaper than they shouldn't make as much money
00:28:02 ◼ ► and that's a valid argument they could choose to do that but what i would say is and they did for a bit
00:28:10 ◼ ► we think and they did and they did because they know it's better if the product the prices are stable
00:28:16 ◼ ► yeah but all the people in charge at apple are compensated with stock and this is a this is a
00:28:28 ◼ ► eating into your margins is not a thing that the stock market approves because stock market likes
00:28:34 ◼ ► the profile of apple is it's very profitable with high margins yeah if you have tuned in look i watch
00:28:40 ◼ ► financial television half an hour every quarter the half an hour before apple's results drop i watch
00:28:45 ◼ ► cnbc or bloomberg and oh those people love the profit margin number boy do they love it and on the call
00:28:54 ◼ ► on the earnings call afterward the analysts oh they love the profit margin number so much and the cfo loves
00:28:59 ◼ ► the profit margin there was a cfo exchange a year ago so it was luca maestri with an analyst who was
00:29:05 ◼ ► like hey i think this is a record profit margin for you and you could hear luca maestri break open a big
00:29:11 ◼ ► grin he was like thank you for noticing oh my god it was an enormous record profit margin for us so
00:29:19 ◼ ► very hard to get those people to ultimately say and and again i think this is how i would put it
00:29:25 ◼ ► they've been holding the line because they could do it in their model and it wouldn't kill their margins
00:29:32 ◼ ► and it allows them them to benefit from prices that they're comfortable with the fact that they did
00:29:37 ◼ ► this this break it's about that it's about the fact that if they if they continue to eat it they feel
00:29:43 ◼ ► like at this point they're breaking their traditional um margin numbers and that it's going to hurt their
00:29:49 ◼ ► long-term uh profit margin and they're not willing to do that so could they of course they could but
00:29:55 ◼ ► again i think it's not a realistic argument because the people in charge it is the argument to say
00:30:01 ◼ ► apple should just make less money and like apple's a profit seeking business that's publicly owned
00:30:12 ◼ ► affordable in fact i don't know how you felt this last week i'm like oh wow i hadn't felt i'll put it
00:30:20 ◼ ► this way i hadn't felt the apple is apple products are always way more expensive than you want them to be
00:30:29 ◼ ► vibe in a while and i didn't realize it i didn't realize it at the time there was a time five years
00:30:37 ◼ ► ago even when they would come out with a product and you're like oh i mean i want it but it's so
00:30:42 ◼ ► expensive oh and it's been a while that i felt that way in the era of a 999 or even 1099 i think the last
00:30:50 ◼ ► time i felt that way is when they came out with the m2 macbook air maybe so that was 2021 yeah but even
00:30:56 ◼ ► that computer was so impressive it was like it was so impressive but it was also but it was also like
00:31:01 ◼ ► 1299 instead of 999 and that hurt but like this last week when i look at those prices i i think i did not
00:31:09 ◼ ► think to myself this is outrageous i've never seen prices like these on apple products actually what i
00:31:14 ◼ ► felt was oh i've got that old feeling back now of everything apple makes being a little too expensive
00:31:20 ◼ ► for me and for my preference i think they got like sneakily affordable over time in a lot of areas i think
00:31:27 ◼ ► that's exactly it is that by holding the line as long as they did and and like the macbook neo is a
00:31:33 ◼ ► great example apple loved it apple benefited from feeling more affordable they reached users and they
00:31:39 ◼ ► reached customers that they couldn't reach before i i will say i do still think 699 is still a very
00:31:44 ◼ ► good starting price like every every to be clear the macbook neo at 699 based on a year ago would be a
00:31:52 ◼ ► bummer it wouldn't even be a bummer it would be okay i think a lot of people thought it would be 699
00:31:56 ◼ ► yeah but all of its competition is going up in price too yeah because everything's going up in
00:32:03 ◼ ► price period so it's going to be 699 is a bummer but like the the products that's going up against
00:32:08 ◼ ► are all going to go up in price or down in quality or they already have jason or they already have
00:32:12 ◼ ► apple hasn't hasn't done it until now yeah it's it's it's interesting right like i have i have had that
00:32:21 ◼ ► feeling in the last few days of like oh i remember what this used to be like like i'm looking at the
00:32:26 ◼ ► prices now of ipads and especially the ipad pro like i don't i don't know like the ipad prices right now
00:32:38 ◼ ► are just way too high they are way too high and i don't know what's going to happen there like the ipad pro
00:32:46 ◼ ► what it starts like 1200 now or something yeah it's like that's too much so my look when this all
00:32:52 ◼ ► is over because some i think some of what they're doing here is prioritizing products based on the
00:32:58 ◼ ► ones that they think are important it's also why the iphone hasn't been dealt with yet which is
00:33:02 ◼ ► interesting yeah um i think i think the ipad is not super important to apple right now and that
00:33:08 ◼ ► they're okay with people not buying the ipad pro and they've got them and they're available but
00:33:15 ◼ ► when this surge of of component pricing ends you are going to have to have that moment if you're apple
00:33:23 ◼ ► where you look at something like the ipad and say oh ipad sales are in the tank uh ipad pro sales are
00:33:31 ◼ ► really bad ipad air sales are off what happened and you look at the pricing and you're like yeah these
00:33:36 ◼ ► are overpriced we can't do it and then they and then you maybe cut the price but that's not going
00:33:42 ◼ ► to happen until you're in a place where all of the ram kind of circulates freely and at a good price
00:33:50 ◼ ► uh because that's because that's the that's the pressure the downward pressure on price and part is
00:33:54 ◼ ► like if you can't sell it because it's too expensive nobody's buying it because it's just a bad deal
00:33:59 ◼ ► you gotta i mean two things are going to happen one is they're going to look at the price
00:34:03 ◼ ► and two is they're going to look at the the tech inside it and it may be that there's like an
00:34:07 ◼ ► expensive component that they thought that they were going to use in the next ipad pro and they're
00:34:10 ◼ ► like we can't do it yep we just can't do it yeah because i was thinking about that when you were
00:34:14 ◼ ► saying about like you know thinking about the earnings calls and stuff and it's like yeah your
00:34:19 ◼ ► profit margin is great to keep but what if you end up losing more money from lost sales like then was
00:34:25 ◼ ► it good to keep the margin like this is the the tightrope walk that the people in apple's finance
00:34:31 ◼ ► team have to be dealing with right now like trying to model out like will we still make money if we
00:34:38 ◼ ► drop if we increase the prices because we will definitely drop well will we drop some sales how
00:34:43 ◼ ► much will we drop that must be incredibly complicated to work out right yeah i don't know i don't know um
00:34:51 ◼ ► it's i think the other way they could go with some of the high-end products they just say look
00:34:59 ◼ ► high-end products exist to be awesome and so we're going to make them awesome and they're going to be
00:35:06 ◼ ► expensive and that that you know and then what you're going to see is the the ipad airs of the world
00:35:12 ◼ ► will be their focus on that yeah and that's okay like i think we all assume that that oled
00:35:17 ◼ ► macbook pro is going to be a high-end more expensive product anyway like that is one strategy is if you
00:35:24 ◼ ► want to look cool and cutting edge with the latest tech you put it in your i mean this has been apple
00:35:29 ◼ ► all along you put in your very expensive product and everybody else is like oh i want it but it's too
00:35:33 ◼ ► expensive and it's like that's okay that's okay because eventually that stuff will come down
00:35:37 ◼ ► and then there are some people who will buy it and then your focus is more on the mid-range because
00:35:42 ◼ ► it's more affordable now the ipad air is also very expensive but it's not seven hundred and forty
00:35:46 ◼ ► nine dollars time i mean it's it's ipad pro expensive old school ipad pro expensive so i don't know it's
00:35:54 ◼ ► um it's really interesting uh as a challenge for them but but i just want to say for people who are
00:36:07 ◼ ► hurt sales it's not necessarily going to hurt revenue because the revenue is going to go up
00:36:12 ◼ ► but the sales will go down but they don't even report sales figures anymore they only report revenue
00:36:17 ◼ ► numbers so maybe it'll look okay on their bottom line but they will know that sales are down and that
00:36:23 ◼ ► the buying cycle has been elongated and in the long term that's not good for them they know that
00:36:28 ◼ ► so i wouldn't say like apple blindly put up the price right that's not what they did they know the
00:36:36 ◼ ► they know the ramifications of this no i think you can tell that because they tried to hold it
00:36:41 ◼ ► yeah and this and this is the breaking point in fact in fact what we're getting now is the shock
00:36:46 ◼ ► it's like bending bend bend bend bend until it snaps that's what happened here because also what should
00:36:52 ◼ ► be baked into these prices is some element of forecasting so they don't do it again right like
00:37:00 ◼ ► i feel like i feel like in the last few days i'm getting i'm seeing different headlines almost every day
00:37:07 ◼ ► for how long this situation could last for and it seems to either extend a contract but the trend line is
00:37:15 ◼ ► it's going to take this is going to take longer than you think for the ram prices to come down
00:37:19 ◼ ► but apple should have built into the price increases some level of we do this now and we can hold it for
00:37:27 ◼ ► x amount of time like you don't want to do this again this year say because that's not good but they
00:37:36 ◼ ► they also have no control over it right like if if prices multiply by another five times in a couple of
00:37:42 ◼ ► weeks what are you going to do i i my guess is that what they've done here is try to make their best
00:37:47 ◼ ► guess about a price that they can keep fixed yeah right yeah because they don't like to change prices
00:37:53 ◼ ► so it's probably a price they want to keep fixed and they're building in more margin than is necessary
00:38:01 ◼ ► because they anticipate more pain right and and so they're trying to do that also i think it's very
00:38:10 ◼ ► hard not to look at the home pod and apple tv prices and not think that they're pricing those
00:38:14 ◼ ► because that they know what the next one's going to be priced at yeah that they may be trying to price
00:38:19 ◼ ► it towards where it's going i would be shocked if there was an appreciable amount of margin recovery
00:38:27 ◼ ► required we'll put it for the apple tv and the home pod i i just i'm really skeptical not making more
00:38:33 ◼ ► apple tv right like surely they have all the ones they're going to need well i actually do i think
00:38:39 ◼ ► that that's one of the things that i think is going on here is that they've made all of the ones that
00:38:44 ◼ ► they're going to make and they're on to the next one and they're pricing those products because they
00:38:48 ◼ ► know what they're going to have to price the next one at um and i actually think that with the iphone
00:38:53 ◼ ► it's a very similar thing they're probably i mean the iphone 17 they're still going to make because
00:38:59 ◼ ► it's probably not going to be replaced until the spring but like they're stopped they're not making
00:39:04 ◼ ► iphone 17 pros anymore probably right they they're they're moving on to the 18 pro um and maybe that
00:39:10 ◼ ► gives them a little bit of latitude now i don't know i that i don't know but but the apple tv and the
00:39:15 ◼ ► home pod it sure feels to me like there's a new version of both of those coming that's apple intelligence
00:39:20 ◼ ► capable and they know what and and some new products too and they know what those prices are
00:39:26 ◼ ► going to have to be now and so these adjustments are almost like yeah that's what apple tv has to
00:39:32 ◼ ► cost now because the next one's going to cost that when you mentioned the iphone they didn't touch the
00:39:36 ◼ ► iphone why do you think they didn't do that do you think i don't know i i think i think they will
00:39:46 ◼ ► i do think they will kind of have to right i think maybe the economics are a little bit different and
00:39:53 ◼ ► maybe they feel like they can hold off until the fall for that one maybe it's just the most important
00:40:01 ◼ ► product yeah but do you want to announce the new iphone and that starting price is 200 more than the
00:40:09 ◼ ► like is that the way you want to introduce the iphone 19 i don't know and here's that's the
00:40:15 ◼ ► argument price it's yeah i don't know it seems interesting to me that they did it in two waves
00:40:22 ◼ ► i feel like now if you're going to do it now's the time to do it but maybe they're hoping for some kind
00:40:27 ◼ ► of magic between now and then like i don't know what it might be well actually i don't know if this
00:40:33 ◼ ► will help but my analysis last week spot on the financial times is reporting that apple is lobbying
00:40:39 ◼ ► the trump administration for an exemption to buy and use ram from chinese manufacturers so apple
00:40:46 ◼ ► specifically want to buy ram from a company called cxmt which is a company on the pentagon's blacklist
00:40:53 ◼ ► because of ties to the chinese military so it's actually not illegal for apple to buy ram from these
00:41:05 ◼ ► them into america or elsewhere and also reputational risk if they do it without working with the government
00:41:11 ◼ ► and apparently at according to the financial times apple started this effort a month ago working with
00:41:17 ◼ ► the government to try and say like we want to do this let us do this and this is this was your i mean
00:41:24 ◼ ► this is your take that the deal with like we're gonna we're gonna let intel we're gonna work with intel
00:41:28 ◼ ► yeah is they're trying to do a quid pro quo here of like look we're gonna do more american stuff but
00:41:34 ◼ ► right now we have a memory challenge and let us work with these guys yeah um i think one of the issues
00:41:38 ◼ ► too because so apple tried this a few years ago right and 2022 yeah and both parties in congress were
00:41:46 ◼ ► like you can't do this and a lot of the issue it's not even just the chinese military i think a lot of the
00:41:50 ◼ ► issues is is it is a it is viewed as a government propped up company and therefore doesn't one of
00:42:00 ◼ ► the big challenges with a lot of international trade stuff is you're not playing fair because your
00:42:05 ◼ ► government is making this product is subsidizing the making of this product it's not a it's not an
00:42:11 ◼ ► actual uh competitive company it's a company that you're like a great example of this is that for
00:42:18 ◼ ► years the u.s um yelled a lot about airbus the french-based airplane manufacturer obviously the
00:42:30 ◼ ► boeing their prime competitor is in the u.s and a lot of those arguments i remember seeing about
00:42:35 ◼ ► airbus were airbus gets subsidies from europe and from the european governments and therefore it's not
00:42:41 ◼ ► a it and so that they would say we are going to have sanctions on airbus because it's not fairly
00:42:48 ◼ ► competing with boeing you're you're propping it up and that that ruins the competition i get the sense
00:42:54 ◼ ► that that's part of the argument here is that this is this is not just a chinese company that makes ram
00:42:59 ◼ ► it's a company funded by the chinese military and government that makes ram but also look the u.s
00:43:06 ◼ ► both parties are are not immune from saber rattling about the chinese communist party or the chinese
00:43:13 ◼ ► military or china in general and so that's what's going on here i i do wonder if if uh donald trump
00:43:19 ◼ ► doesn't care because remember he he he has a very weird relationship with china where he's often
00:43:25 ◼ ► belligerent toward them but also talks about how great she is so go figure and if tim cook comes to
00:43:33 ◼ ► him and is like i'm let's so much of what trump does is transactional if he views this as a deal which is
00:43:39 ◼ ► i'm getting apple to invest in intel which we which the government owns a part of now um and it's going
00:43:45 ◼ ► to be about american manufacturer we can let them have the chinese chips and put like i said last
00:43:51 ◼ ► week i think put some restrictions on it like only for phones in china or not for phones in the u.s or
00:43:58 ◼ ► however you want to do it but it they're they're they need a solid now because because in 2022 crisis
00:44:04 ◼ ► they wanted to do this and sell these phones only in china and the american government just last part of
00:44:09 ◼ ► the same thing was like you cannot do you cannot allow right because you're going to be giving money
00:44:13 ◼ ► two and and propping up this company yeah so it's a it's a real challenge but you you did call it it
00:44:19 ◼ ► was it was cook mentioning it like it seemed so out of character right for him to just because it felt
00:44:25 ◼ ► to me like i'm reading that article that that was something that he brought up like it wasn't really a
00:44:33 ◼ ► question it just felt to me like maybe it's like you know someone slipped the report or a note but like
00:44:38 ◼ ► ask about chinese ram he's like oh great question like it seemed so strange for him to just be like
00:44:48 ◼ ► exchange to me just in the way that it read and and then with the intel yeah it just seemed like this
00:44:54 ◼ ► was a thing that was going to happen and i reckon they'll get some it will work i reckon it will work
00:45:01 ◼ ► i don't know exactly what the shape of it will be but i think that we're in times where deals can be
00:45:08 ◼ ► made and also we're in this like unprecedented weirdness it's like you know i can imagine cook
00:45:14 ◼ ► being like well we won't sell as many iphones and you know that's not good for our economy like it's
00:45:20 ◼ ► going to be weird but we're in a very strange time so i uh i consider myself one of the lucky ones
00:45:27 ◼ ► i bought a macbook air the day the day before the price increase was announced i i'm going to take
00:45:33 ◼ ► some credit this i feel like i talked you into this oh absolutely you did for this reason so this is an
00:45:38 ◼ ► upgrade plus last week i was talking about some issues i'm having with my m2 macbook air that i felt like
00:45:42 ◼ ► it was getting really slow and creaky and was causing me issues and i was getting very frustrated with it
00:45:47 ◼ ► but i was trying to hold out for the macbook pro the touchscreen macbook pro and you basically said
00:45:53 ◼ ► you don't even know if you're going to like that machine which is true it might not be what i want
00:45:57 ◼ ► and turns out there's there's more truth in that that we'll get to yeah later and then you also said
00:46:04 ◼ ► uh if you buy that computer now the value will probably only go up so if you trade it in you you'll be
00:46:11 ◼ ► fine and uh i i bought a computer that went up 400 pounds in value the next day nothing holds its value
00:46:19 ◼ ► better than a device you buy for one price and then they raise it by 400 pounds and you know what's so
00:46:24 ◼ ► funny too like i did a comparison and like because i had an m2 right i paid essentially pretty much the
00:46:32 ◼ ► same amount of money for a vastly better spec to machine because the starting price of the m2 was more
00:46:38 ◼ ► expensive than the starting price of the m5 when i bought it yeah and so like i ended up getting like
00:46:43 ◼ ► i think two terabyte ssd and 36 gigabytes of ram uh i'm gonna have a great time with that computer
00:46:49 ◼ ► jamie's um some we bought my daughter who's going to be editing all the video for designing california
00:46:56 ◼ ► and loves it i i mentioned her last week and said that she loves it when we mentioned her on the show
00:47:01 ◼ ► and she texted me while she was editing the show and said yes i do i love it so hi jamie
00:47:05 ◼ ► there she is again uh she got a 15 inch m4 refurb uh 16 terabyte or 16 gig ram uh one terabyte drive
00:47:19 ◼ ► good deal good deal my my uh my book have will not arrive with me into august oh no no it's yeah it's
00:47:28 ◼ ► gonna take forever it'll take a while it might it might they might get it faster than that but like
00:47:32 ◼ ► it will see sometimes i order things like they'll refurb for jamie i was like it'll be a couple of
00:47:37 ◼ ► weeks and then they're like nope it'll be tomorrow okay all right whatever also the evening of the
00:47:44 ◼ ► price increase i got a text from my mom i had promised that i would get her an apple tv she just moved and
00:47:50 ◼ ► she's using like a this like chinese set top box thing like like dvr it's terrible it's really bad and i
00:47:59 ◼ ► said to her like because she was really very frustrated it's like i'm gonna buy you an apple
00:48:03 ◼ ► tv i'm gonna set you up and you'll just watch everything on demand like you're gonna have a
00:48:06 ◼ ► better time and she sent me a message and she was like i can't wait for you to to sort this apple tv
00:48:11 ◼ ► out for me because i hate this thing i was like oh my god the price just went up by 50 but i went to
00:48:17 ◼ ► amazon they hadn't changed the prices yet yeah got one at the old price so i feel like the luckiest
00:48:23 ◼ ► man alive walking i wonder how many people like went to costco the day the announcement happened
00:48:27 ◼ ► and picked up a macbook neo or a macbook air before they got to relabel the prices yep i don't i do not
00:48:33 ◼ ► know how i got that price at amazon without them having changed it um just as a side note i've been
00:48:38 ◼ ► thinking about this before we move on like i think the next couple of years are gonna be weird
00:48:46 ◼ ► like the yeah i i you know like i feel like there is going to be a new kind of like cloud over new
00:48:56 ◼ ► hardware that didn't exist right that like it's going to be way more expensive we're going to be
00:49:02 ◼ ► talking about price of stuff more than we have which is i think is a necessary but somewhat frustrating
00:49:08 ◼ ► kind of conversation to have and i also see a world where a lot of our audience keep their devices for
00:49:16 ◼ ► longer than they would have before and so the utility of talking about new stuff maybe diminishes a little
00:49:23 ◼ ► bit like we're obviously going to do it because it's interesting and exciting to talk about the new
00:49:28 ◼ ► products but i can just i i kind of see that there will be a need that we will meet of talking more
00:49:37 ◼ ► about software like the balance of hardware and software on the show might shift a little bit
00:49:43 ◼ ► sure and and i also hope that tech companies in general put more effort into their software over
00:49:53 ◼ ► the next few years to make their products nicer to use for longer for their customers because this is
00:49:59 ◼ ► a thing where customers are not going to be able to upgrade on the same cycles that they would have
00:50:03 ◼ ► wanted to before will not be willing to and so yeah i i can imagine i hope that for the general tech
00:50:09 ◼ ► industry that people focus on this but i just it will be a focus of mine over the next while in
00:50:16 ◼ ► thinking about the like the production of this show that we try and bring more more software into the
00:50:22 ◼ ► conversation than we would have before it's kind of like a thing i've been thinking about i think it's
00:50:25 ◼ ► going to be a necessary component of coverage so it'll be summer of fun for the next two years
00:50:32 ◼ ► do we need do we need like a is dongle town a place where you go when the prices are high or
00:50:44 ◼ ► something like that is there a concept there some kind of software related town net like a mountain
00:50:50 ◼ ► the old dongle town upgrade yeah but i feel like there's there's a different place right like dongle
00:50:56 ◼ ► oh interesting dongle town is is where you go when you need hardware right like that's the whole point
00:51:02 ◼ ► of it because you have less oh oh did you know here's a little fun fact about dongle town since we're
00:51:07 ◼ ► talking about where it was it's actually built it's on it's by the sea obviously yeah but it's it's built
00:51:20 ◼ ► i didn't know that yeah military base what an interesting choice so maybe there's like a like
00:51:29 ◼ ► a px on the on the install base where you can get bargain uh hardware and software something yeah you
00:51:35 ◼ ► know what that we're working on lower here it's like there's a t-shirt in there somewhere that's
00:51:44 ◼ ► yeah conveniently located near dongle town very super convenient for this yeah so this actually
00:51:51 ◼ ► places dongle town probably closer to san diego it's probably more like north san diego county near
00:51:56 ◼ ► camp pendleton except it's actually in the installed base there you go this episode is brought to you by
00:52:03 ◼ ► our friends over at century most ai tools will help you write code but seer from century is built for
00:52:11 ◼ ► when it breaks it is their ai debugging agent seer is built right into century because of this it has
00:52:20 ◼ ► full context of your errors your traces your logs your replays and your code all in one place so when
00:52:26 ◼ ► something goes wrong it finds the root cause and opens a pull request before you even see the alert
00:52:33 ◼ ► it will also review your pull requests against real production failures so bugs don't ship in the first
00:52:38 ◼ ► place other ai tools will guess but seer knows why your app is broken a thing that i am learning more
00:52:48 ◼ ► about people that are using uh ai in their code and just like ai in general right the more context
00:52:53 ◼ ► an agent has the better it is at performing the task and the fact that century has all of this
00:53:00 ◼ ► information that it can provide to its agent is super helpful for finding these issues and also from
00:53:05 ◼ ► developers that i'm talking to like i'm understanding the value that many people are seeing in having
00:53:10 ◼ ► these tools available to them like to be able to make fixes to their apps that they weren't able to
00:53:15 ◼ ► understand before but having this sit alongside your production all the time is only going to make you
00:53:22 ◼ ► faster so i think it's a very interesting tool that century have built you can join millions of developers
00:53:28 ◼ ► at companies like anthropic and disney plus who use century to move faster try it free at s-e-n-t-r-y
00:53:35 ◼ ► dot i-o and tell them that we sent you they have a free dev plan the listeners of this show can use the
00:53:40 ◼ ► code upgrade 26 to get a hundred dollars in century credits if you're a new user our thanks to century
00:53:46 ◼ ► for their support of this show and relay rumor roundup time jason snow on thursday last week
00:53:54 ◼ ► saddle prices are going up mike oh no and it's and you know it costs more to feed a horse than ever
00:54:01 ◼ ► than ever before than ever before poor mark he reported last week on thursday that apple will
00:54:06 ◼ ► be skipping the most powerful m6 chips in favor of jumping right to m7 according to marks yeah wild
00:54:15 ◼ ► yeah according to mark's sources m6 will only be available in its entry-level base chip products
00:54:22 ◼ ► right so like the iMac the Mac no m6 no m6 pro no m6 max no m6 ultra just an a base m6 and we'll go in the
00:54:30 ◼ ► machines that you would expect a macbook air uh everything that has an m5 yeah yeah maybe an
00:54:37 ◼ ► ipad maybe an ipad yeah maybe ipad pro an ipad pro for sure these products could start arriving the m6
00:54:44 ◼ ► products could start arriving this year the next pro max chips would be m7 pro and m7 max that will come
00:54:54 ◼ ► in 2027 at some point right these chips are said to have a stronger focus on uh ai capabilities which
00:55:01 ◼ ► is why apple is looking to fast track m7 and just skip m6 on one level i am fascinated by this because
00:55:10 ◼ ► of the chaos of it right it's like seems like such a break and if mark german's story is right that they
00:55:14 ◼ ► that they planned on doing an m6 and then they scrapped it and said the stuff in m7 is too good
00:55:21 ◼ ► they're reading the room they're like this is the fallout of of all those mac minis becoming ai machines
00:55:28 ◼ ► right is their realization of like oh we need to press this and they look at the m6 generation they're like
00:55:35 ◼ ► it's it's really not that great the m7 the m5 is great and the m7 is great and the m6 is kind of in
00:55:40 ◼ ► between why do why do we not just skip it and move and move everything ahead to the next one because the
00:55:46 ◼ ► next one because they know several generations out right so i think that's interesting if that's what
00:55:50 ◼ ► happened also potentially they're like maybe we're not going to sell that many m6 pro macbook pros
00:55:57 ◼ ► it may take it may take some time that's true we got we got some anonymous feedback from somebody who said
00:56:02 ◼ ► that mark german is full of it essentially and that they were never going to do an m6 pro or max
00:56:08 ◼ ► and that that was never the plan for the macbook pro with the touch screen i mean i had two reactions
00:56:15 ◼ ► that doesn't make sense to me that doesn't make sense i have two reactions to me i would love
00:56:20 ◼ ► confirmation of that from people who know because a random anonymous person could be anything and then
00:56:23 ◼ ► my second thing was i was like john gruber is that you because i know gruber's like down on german and
00:56:29 ◼ ► i'm like john is that you are you are you in the feedback form again you could text me it's okay
00:56:36 ◼ ► you could you know how to text me um but uh but assuming that it is true which i'm going to assume
00:56:43 ◼ ► for now unless unless told by um sources who know otherwise i like i like the idea that apple
00:56:50 ◼ ► and johnny sruji are are so dynamic in this moment that they're like you know the world has changed
00:56:58 ◼ ► when we made the m6 plans things were different we've got m7 we're really feeling really good about
00:57:03 ◼ ► it let's make a break here especially since we know that apple within apple there's a lot of
00:57:11 ◼ ► responsibility between like the the chip people and the hardware people we're like you know you don't ask
00:57:16 ◼ ► for a chip and then not ship it in the product right you know you don't you don't do that if
00:57:20 ◼ ► you're a hardware person you don't you don't demand a chip from the chip people and then say never mind
00:57:24 ◼ ► because that's you're letting them down they want everybody to be in sync making this chip decision
00:57:29 ◼ ► has impact on other hardware because we've been talking for the last six months or whatever about
00:57:36 ◼ ► what mark german's been reporting about the oled touchscreen macbook pro being the m6 generation macbook pro
00:57:42 ◼ ► which can't happen if there's no m6 pro and max processors which is why mark german posted this
00:57:49 ◼ ► story on thursday i think last week and everybody's like what about the laptop and then on friday he had
00:57:53 ◼ ► that story which is they're gonna apparently do the touchscreen oled macbook pro as an m5 and then as an m7
00:58:01 ◼ ► which again interesting right but i think it shows you how apple feels like from a chip perspective
00:58:10 ◼ ► they have an advantage that they want to press here and that's what i like about this decision is
00:58:15 ◼ ► not that it says oh boy apple's in disarray they killed the m5 pro and max no no it's the way it's
00:58:22 ◼ ► spun and the way that i would read it is apple would really rather go straight to m7 because m7 is going
00:58:27 ◼ ► to be great and so they're just going to get there they're going to they're going to they're going to
00:58:31 ◼ ► pay a little bit of a price now in order to jump straight to m7 that's interesting yeah and i feel like
00:58:36 ◼ ► this is part of the thing that i always want to see them exhibiting with the chip design which is
00:58:41 ◼ ► like if you're in complete control of it make decisions that you otherwise wouldn't make and
00:58:48 ◼ ► one of those decisions could be the world is changing the industry is changing demands on some of our
00:58:55 ◼ ► products are changing so we should accelerate the chip that will meet the change because why wait
00:59:02 ◼ ► like if you know the m7 chip is going to do a better job of what people want to be doing on
00:59:07 ◼ ► these machines right now especially when these machines are more expensive so they're potentially
00:59:13 ◼ ► could see that would want higher need from some market segments bring these chips we're talking about
00:59:20 ◼ ► macbook pro and max studio here and then also keep in mind while macbook pro would be interesting
00:59:25 ◼ ► because you get these new body macbook pro with the same chips that it has currently which is a little
00:59:29 ◼ ► weird but it's not unprecedented and they could do it and the oled and and a touchscreen make it
00:59:35 ◼ ► interesting regardless right but the other part of this is the max studio which is the one that
00:59:42 ◼ ► really i mean mac mini and max studio are the ones that people are really interested in haven't been
00:59:46 ◼ ► updated yet so they've got a whole other generation to come for those products where they go to m5
00:59:53 ◼ ► including according to mark german m5 ultra is going to happen yeah on the max studio yeah so
01:00:00 ◼ ► they're going to have an ai story in m5 generation they don't need and then they'll go to then they'll
01:00:06 ◼ ► jump to m7 the next year year and a half and that that works yep mark did say is i think this is
01:00:12 ◼ ► hilarious really in this in a very macabre way the m5 ultra which they will still bring out they're still
01:00:18 ◼ ► planning on bringing out for the mac studio had been tested to be able to support up to 768 gigabytes of
01:00:25 ◼ ► ram now it's just like no they're not gonna do that that's not happening oh my god it will cost a million
01:00:32 ◼ ► dollars per machine uh mark does say so you know this is the the m7 chips would be introduced in quote
01:00:40 ◼ ► relatively quick succession after the m6 basically at some point in the first half of 2027
01:00:52 ◼ ► between now and the end of the year and then m7 like new base chips in the first six months i mean
01:00:58 ◼ ► they've done stuff like that before i mean they could they could but yeah imagine getting a mac an m6
01:01:04 ◼ ► macbook air in the fall and then an m7 macbook air in the spring well unless i think they've done this
01:01:09 ◼ ► before where they might just not update the m7 base until later in the year right so like you take
01:01:17 ◼ ► the m well yeah you could also take the m6 and put in the macbook air and take the m7 and put in the
01:01:22 ◼ ► macbook pro base model yeah or you and then you could do an m7 macbook air refresh in the fall again
01:01:28 ◼ ► like they don't have to go in order like sometimes they go in in weird order like that right and you
01:01:33 ◼ ► ultimately end up with an m7 ipad pro and an m6 yeah there was one where they did the ipad pro got
01:01:40 ◼ ► a base chip and then they brought out the pro max chips and then he didn't put that base chip into
01:01:45 ◼ ► something later on i don't remember what one this was where you know they do this kind of stuff they
01:01:49 ◼ ► have the ability to do that so the pro max versions of the m7 would come later in 2027 so it's all over
01:01:58 ◼ ► the place and then an m7 ultra in 2028 it might actually mean that you're going to get that oled
01:02:03 ◼ ► touchscreen macbook pro this fall after all and that then a year later you would get the m7 a year year
01:02:09 ◼ ► and a half later either late 27 or early 28 you'd get the the m7 version of it because mark says that
01:02:14 ◼ ► the the touchscreen macbook pro is still on track for the end of this year or the beginning of 2027
01:02:19 ◼ ► yeah yeah and if it's using the existing m5 chips that would strike me as being more more doable if
01:02:26 ◼ ► this is all um if this is all happening so you know we're we're we're taking mark german's word
01:02:31 ◼ ► his track record's been pretty good um especially about these kind of plans i think that most of his
01:02:38 ◼ ► reports have ended up being accurate so again i i'm much more confident about mark german as a reporter
01:02:44 ◼ ► it follows a common sense logic to me yeah right like i can see the chain of events that result in
01:02:51 ◼ ► this and there is a somewhat hopeful thinking from me of that they would do this kind of thing because
01:02:57 ◼ ► i think it's the right thing to do yeah you shouldn't just be kind of like nailed to a march that you
01:03:04 ◼ ► continue just because like we have to have an m6 pro because we have an m6 yeah the idea here is
01:03:13 ◼ ► it takes years it takes years to plan chips yeah and and the danger is that you get so far ahead
01:03:18 ◼ ► that you miss the moment and i think that's what happened right like apple look at wwdc you saw it
01:03:23 ◼ ► apple is happy to show off and boast about this fact that agents are running on mac minis and mac studios and
01:03:30 ◼ ► they had that demo experience where they had the four mac studios with a terabyte of collective memory
01:03:38 ◼ ► running ai models and that price just went up by ten thousand dollars right you can't buy it
01:03:43 ◼ ► i mean you can't you can't buy those those are ones you actually can't buy but they had them as a demo
01:03:47 ◼ ► um and they're very proud of it but let's be clear it was an accident it was it was a byproduct of
01:03:56 ◼ ► apple's investment in uh its chip technologies and building these systems with lots of really
01:04:03 ◼ ► interesting on board capabilities but it was an accident uh and if they're looking at their chip
01:04:09 ◼ ► uh future right and they're looking at the m5 m6 m7 generations the m5 isn't even out yet and they're
01:04:14 ◼ ► like how do we get on top like we've got and and now they've made adjustments and they're like m7 is
01:04:20 ◼ ► actually going to kill it for all of these uses but it's it's like three generations out this is this is
01:04:27 ◼ ► how you have to do it you have to be willing to make calls like this if you're going to be working
01:04:31 ◼ ► years out because otherwise you're not you're not able to turn the ship fast enough and so this is the
01:04:35 ◼ ► downside i suppose that's why i'm so enthusiastic about this conceptually is like i know you work out
01:04:42 ◼ ► years ahead but if in this case you're like no no no no we need to jump to this now and we can pull it
01:04:48 ◼ ► ahead a little bit by just foregoing the the one that was in the middle here let's do it and they did it
01:04:54 ◼ ► and you know if that's the case i think that's encouraging because it shows that they're going
01:04:58 ◼ ► to jump on this one because they see an advantage there of uh moving on from the the max there have
01:05:05 ◼ ► also been a flurry of reports signaling that the folding iphone is on track for september after some
01:05:11 ◼ ► previous concerns of delay so there's two reports from the elect one is that there have been problems
01:05:17 ◼ ► with the development of the hinge mechanism but these have now been resolved this has allowed the device
01:05:22 ◼ ► to go into test production which is the final step before mass production and that samsung display
01:05:28 ◼ ► have been given the approval by apple to start the production of the oled display apparently the order
01:05:33 ◼ ► that has been made is for three million panels for delivery this year okay so we're looking at still
01:05:42 ◼ ► september for this we have some element of a estimate for maybe what apple thinks it could sell or hopes it
01:05:48 ◼ ► could sell uh but we'll see how that goes yeah considering it is the summer of fun i wanted to
01:05:58 ◼ ► mention something here we want to jump on a bandwagon to free the icons jason yes so here at the upgrade
01:06:05 ◼ ► podcast we want to use our time in the summer of fun to fully endorse a movement spearheaded today by
01:06:11 ◼ ► rogue amoeba to free mac os icons from the squirkle jail so this this happened in tahoe where we lost the
01:06:20 ◼ ► the like inconsistent shapes of mac os icons they all put got if you had an inconsistent shape you were
01:06:27 ◼ ► shoved inside of a gray box yeah and in golden gate there have been some tweaks to some icons and
01:06:35 ◼ ► some of them have a little bit more detail in them again that they they'd lost so they look a little
01:06:40 ◼ ► bit better but we want them to break free of their boxes again i'm going to read from pork of us at
01:06:45 ◼ ► rogue amoeba apple's prohibition on shapes is a step backwards for both usability and creativity in app
01:06:52 ◼ ► icons icons are now harder to distinguish because they're no longer allowed to be distinctive but
01:06:58 ◼ ► there's no technical reason for it apple could and should once again allow icons to take on a wide
01:07:04 ◼ ► variety of shapes we want to agree and endorse this message yeah i also there was a um a link
01:07:11 ◼ ► made by um march and witchery at uh at uh unsung blog great blog by the way aries luna um
01:07:22 ◼ ► and he wrote that he wrote about this and and really made the case that the mac should be able
01:07:30 ◼ ► to burst out of the squircle like that there's actually some delight mac icon designers got really
01:07:36 ◼ ► good at just having things like pop out the edges and that's what was frustrating about tahoe is if you
01:07:41 ◼ ► went outside the edges at all your your whole icon including the box that was already there got put in
01:07:48 ◼ ► another box so then you got a box in a box which is the worst of all so like rogue amoeba's little
01:07:54 ◼ ► microphone in audio hijack pushed out the side uh automator robot's head pushed out the top and the
01:08:01 ◼ ► little pipe he's carrying pushed out the side it was cute very threatening um he's going to kill you
01:08:07 ◼ ► with a pipe no it's plumbing it's plumbing so um martin says this is a uh this is this is a thing they
01:08:15 ◼ ► should probably allow which i agree i think that they should probably allow it um i wonder if there
01:08:20 ◼ ► are technical things they did in the icon foundation that make it harder but yes uh forcing those gray
01:08:25 ◼ ► boxes is the worst it was the worst in tahoe it remains the worst um and what paul kafas has made
01:08:32 ◼ ► the point is like if you then do like an icon style that like takes away all the color or whatever
01:08:37 ◼ ► you know what are you left with like you can't differentiate on shape you have to differentiate
01:08:41 ◼ ► on the shape of the thing in the box instead of the shape and the the box breaks the silhouette so
01:08:49 ◼ ► you can't look at a silhouette anymore you have to then scan the box and it makes a lot of apps look
01:08:54 ◼ ► exactly the same uh even if they're full color but especially if you can't even differentiate based
01:08:59 ◼ ► on color which not everybody can do including yours truly but some of the time but like that's a good
01:09:04 ◼ ► point and then his other point that i thought was good and you really should be on somebody at apple's
01:09:09 ◼ ► wish list is right now we have friends who do this james thompson does this with p calc
01:09:14 ◼ ► lots of fun apps let you choose different icons right you can set custom icons in the app
01:09:22 ◼ ► for that app which lets you do stuff like color code like i've got a my um carrot weather is orange
01:09:29 ◼ ► um i've got some that are like six colors rainbows and stuff and and um martin's suggestion is
01:09:36 ◼ ► there ought to be an api for that from apple that lets you like when you're editing your home screen
01:09:42 ◼ ► scroll through all the available custom icons and pick one it's like that's such a good idea
01:09:48 ◼ ► it's such a good idea that why am i going into the settings of various apps and out of context
01:09:54 ◼ ► picking a custom icon and then going back and looking at it wouldn't it be better if i could
01:09:59 ◼ ► style my lock screen from the lock screen editor like oh that's actually a pretty good idea so there's
01:10:07 ◼ ► work to be done uh on all fronts but certainly on the mac it would be nice if there was a little more
01:10:11 ◼ ► freedom because the system just shaming apps with a gray box is just the worst and all the
01:10:18 ◼ ► apps look the same you know have the same shape icon now and it's just not on the mac it is really
01:10:23 ◼ ► not necessary so i'm glad we could bring it up again everybody file your feedbacks maybe we'll get
01:10:29 ◼ ► this addressed next year but probably not this year but no i think it's worth i think it's worth i think
01:10:35 ◼ ► it's worth talking about as apple is um bringing because apple's doing a lot of work on icons and that's
01:10:40 ◼ ► great but i think this is one of those cases where they need to rethink some of the things they're doing
01:10:43 ◼ ► this episode is brought to you in part by claude from anthropic claude is the ai for minds that don't
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01:11:49 ◼ ► then be able to take that image and have it not be a gif but have it be a web p video thing to be able to host
01:11:59 ◼ ► on the web and be viewable on the web i tried many ways to make this work and then eventually i worked
01:12:06 ◼ ► with claude and i built a little mac app i now have a mac app that can do this i have a and it just it it
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01:12:19 ◼ ► built it with xcode and like you know to run well it it did all the work for me and i was able to build
01:12:25 ◼ ► and run it in xcode and i now have this app on my mac i have tons of adjustments it was making
01:12:30 ◼ ► suggestions to me like would you like to be able to do this like to be able to do that it really was
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01:13:08 ◼ ► that is claude.ai slash upgrade a thanks to claude for their support of this show and all
01:13:18 ◼ ► ashley wrote in and said i've been thinking of the commentary of the snow leopard like 27 os releases
01:13:27 ◼ ► mike said that ai focus could have given them the cover to do it so that apple focusing on siri ai
01:13:33 ◼ ► right was was one of the thing then you know they can in the background from an organizational
01:13:37 ◼ ► perspective and then everybody can go fix their bugs because they have this other big feature that's
01:13:41 ◼ ► out there they don't need to work on our os features that's the the context right that ashley's
01:13:45 ◼ ► getting it but ashley says what do you think of the idea that these performance improvements are
01:13:50 ◼ ► actually enabled by apple developers using ai tools these are exactly the kinds of bite-sized
01:13:56 ◼ ► features that i think a good engineer with good coding and model agents could just churn through
01:14:01 ◼ ► i think it's all related i think it's a very good point i think yeah i think it's all related i think
01:14:07 ◼ ► um the ai focus allowed apple to take the pressure off of everybody else to focus on performance and bug
01:14:18 ◼ ► fixes i think apple also prioritized bug fixes and performance issues that were going to be
01:14:24 ◼ ► required for the ai features to do their job right there's a lot of knock-on effects where
01:14:29 ◼ ► they're fixing spotlight so that siri ai can use it but also we all get to use it um but yeah let's
01:14:37 ◼ ► throw it in the mix because i think it's it's reasonable that part of this may be um that the
01:14:44 ◼ ► tools now the ai based tools that are whatever is allowed by apple engineers anyway to use
01:14:50 ◼ ► are um this is a thing they're good at is finding bugs highlighting bugs and performance issues and in
01:14:56 ◼ ► fact there was just um our friend marco arment just wrote about this that he um used i believe
01:15:05 ◼ ► previous sponsor claude um current recent sponsor like minutes minutes ago yeah um and basically said
01:15:14 ◼ ► here are four long-standing bugs that i haven't been able to fix look at my code and make some suggestions
01:15:19 ◼ ► and he says that in like 70 lines of code he was able to address those bugs that he said were so
01:15:26 ◼ ► subtle that he couldn't see him he wrote the code he couldn't see the bugs and so it's not a stretch
01:15:34 ◼ ► um to say that apple developers might also be using ai tools to analyze and and for people who are like
01:15:42 ◼ ► frustrated about like do i want ai writing code and all of that first off i think there's an argument to
01:15:47 ◼ ► be made i would make it the one thing that computers are good at is writing code for computers like
01:15:52 ◼ ► that's actually a real good use of them but even if you take the writing code part out and say it's the
01:15:58 ◼ ► analysis of the code find my bugs find my potential performance issues and then have a a trained
01:16:06 ◼ ► sophisticated engineer fix them but that you could use the ai to find them to spot them
01:16:13 ◼ ► much faster if not like making something that was impossible for somebody like marco to see
01:16:24 ◼ ► for a writer yeah i mean well especially if you're you're not using it to write sentences you're using
01:16:30 ◼ ► it to to find the bugs so i to answer ashley's point i i wouldn't be surprised if that is also part of
01:16:35 ◼ ► what's going on here i think it all is happening sort of together but it wouldn't it would not surprise me at
01:16:40 ◼ ► all if that is one of the ways that apple's developers can use ai tools is spot the bugs
01:16:46 ◼ ► um you know you get a feedback about something and you can't reproduce it and you basically say
01:16:52 ◼ ► here's the feedback and here's the code to somebody like claude and say how can this happen
01:16:57 ◼ ► it is what analyze this and have them say ah yes there is a bug in this line that does this and if you
01:17:05 ◼ ► change it to this it will work and then the developer that you know the programmer looks at and
01:17:08 ◼ ► there's like oh that's what it is and then they and then they're off that's huge that's a huge
01:17:13 ◼ ► productivity saver tom writes in and says everyone originally assumed that apple was going to white
01:17:20 ◼ ► label the gemini models from google and that they were paying a billion dollars for it now that we know
01:17:25 ◼ ► that instead they did some form of distillation of the gemini models or other google frontier models to
01:17:31 ◼ ► create the apple foundation model are the room and there and the rumors that anthropic said no
01:17:36 ◼ ► uh to the same ask is the thinking that google could have agreed this to do this to simply to hurt their
01:17:43 ◼ ► competition sure it does seem like apple got a very good deal here in in what they were able to do
01:17:50 ◼ ► yeah that was the competition obviously they're also going to be in google's data centers so that's a part
01:17:56 ◼ ► of the deal that we maybe didn't understand at the time um sure google google wants to like apple's a good
01:18:05 ◼ ► partner because it gives google's technology another place to be it blocks out at google's competitors
01:18:10 ◼ ► from potentially working with them um i mean it's all i i don't i think it's too simplistic to say
01:18:20 ◼ ► google agreed to this simply to hurt them google agreed to this for a lot of reasons but part of
01:18:25 ◼ ► competition is winning the contract and boxing out your competition and i've been saying here for
01:18:31 ◼ ► a couple years now that like if i'm open ai the last thing i want is for google to control
01:18:39 ◼ ► 100 of smartphone ai and what they're doing with apple is not control but it's like google is the
01:18:47 ◼ ► partner there that's why open ai is so grumpy about apple right now is that you know it's it's tough
01:18:53 ◼ ► in the smartphone context you've got gemini on android and yet there are others there but like that's the
01:18:59 ◼ ► platform owner and then you've got apple stuff that is also powered at least to some degree by gemini
01:19:04 ◼ ► on all the apple stuff in terms of the smartphone market that's it this is probably one of their
01:19:09 ◼ ► motivators to hiring all of those hardware people to build their own whatever's that they're building
01:19:14 ◼ ► with johnny ive and company and all those former apple designers and uh engineers is one way you
01:19:22 ◼ ► i mean this is the problem with the duopoly of of android and iphone is if you're open ai
01:19:28 ◼ ► what do you do your competitor is one of your prime competitors is a platform owner and they've got the
01:19:39 ◼ ► other platform owner as a partner and and so you know we we all have opinions about johnny ive and
01:19:47 ◼ ► johnny ive's weird sam altman video where they had coffee in san francisco and all of that but like
01:19:52 ◼ ► i understand from a strategy perspective why you look at that and say if they've got this hold on
01:20:00 ◼ ► the smartphone our only possible approach on hardware is to either do our own smartphone or break the
01:20:11 ◼ ► smartphone yeah and so that's why they're doing what they're doing i don't know if they'll succeed at it
01:20:15 ◼ ► i'm skeptical but that's why they're doing the situation has gotten worse for open ai since
01:20:21 ◼ ► they made that arrangement right because now google and apple are so close it's like google is just
01:20:27 ◼ ► they're in all the platforms now like you know in in all the smartphones they're just that's the one
01:20:36 ◼ ► yeah rob writes in and says will the impasse around introducing apple intelligence features
01:20:44 ◼ ► to the eu affect the sale of rumored homepod devices or other siri dependent hardware in the eu
01:20:57 ◼ ► yes to the extent that that that these new products rely on talking to for example an iphone
01:21:13 ◼ ► siri ai in the eu yep but only some apple devices are gatekeepers that are under the dma
01:21:21 ◼ ► others aren't these devices aren't so they could they could use siri ai out of the box they are
01:21:27 ◼ ► not gatekeeper devices they could use it out of the box if you've got an apple tv that could be
01:21:33 ◼ ► used as a home hub and has more power but some of these will probably have power too it's not a
01:21:37 ◼ ► gatekeeper product i think the ipad is the ipad not a gatekeeper product i think it's not i think it
01:21:43 ◼ ► is now i think oh is it now i think that was one that they came on maybe maybe wrong because the mac
01:21:48 ◼ ► isn't like the mac will have siri ai because it's it's not a gatekeeper so my my guess is that the way
01:21:56 ◼ ► this is built is either that it's going to be resident on device and the most it's going to do
01:22:00 ◼ ► is look at your icloud or something um or it will have some features that will require a paired apple
01:22:06 ◼ ► device and those might not work yeah but that others will um and that it will be a lesser but not
01:22:15 ◼ ► incomplete device because remember again these devices can have siri ai however if they have to
01:22:21 ◼ ► talk to your iphone and get it to search your spotlight and this is all how they're built right
01:22:26 ◼ ► like how can there be a personal context at all or is the most that it can do to sync you know i mean
01:22:35 ◼ ► maybe maybe there are ways that it could be built to get some good information maybe all it's really
01:22:42 ◼ ► doing is asking the calendar for data like it's a smart watch or something and then that from the iphone
01:22:46 ◼ ► that might be allowed maybe yeah but like that's that's to me that's how this product can exist in
01:22:51 ◼ ► the eu is that it's primarily its own product talking to apple servers and it can do that without using
01:22:58 ◼ ► the gatekeeper product with that feature turned on but it's all about how they've created it right
01:23:02 ◼ ► like that's that's the ultimate thing it's like in theory yes it can work because tv os or home os or
01:23:10 ◼ ► whatever is not a gatekeeper so what i would say about that is if i have a home screen product in
01:23:16 ◼ ► my house and it's paired to somebody's phone and that person walks out the door it's got to still
01:23:20 ◼ ► work right it's got to still work so i think that there are ways that it would be structured so that
01:23:26 ◼ ► it would be functional without an iphone with apple intelligence on it yeah yeah and logan writes in
01:23:33 ◼ ► and says i've always been somebody that deletes my texts emails notes etc when i'm no longer needed
01:23:38 ◼ ► however the new search in siri makes me think it might be beneficial to archive emails and keep
01:23:43 ◼ ► texts forever would you recommend keeping these so siri has better context or am i thinking too much
01:23:49 ◼ ► about this i think you're thinking the exact right amount about this yeah you shouldn't delete things
01:23:55 ◼ ► anymore basically it's yeah siri will know more about you the less information you delete the more you
01:24:01 ◼ ► give it the more it knows well i think i think the real thing is when no longer needed here like if a
01:24:07 ◼ ► thing is truly disposable dispose of it disposing of it is fine but i'll point out cloud storage
01:24:12 ◼ ► is available our storage on our devices is available um i yes if you want to use these new features and
01:24:20 ◼ ► have a siri that can search through all of your old stuff and tell you things you've got to you got
01:24:25 ◼ ► to keep those things around that's the that's the bottom line of it and and i have i had a moment
01:24:31 ◼ ► my moment which is similar is that i started using gmail and i stopped filing um my email i used to file
01:24:39 ◼ ► my email i used to auto filter it or then transfer it to various mailboxes and stuff yeah and i realized
01:24:46 ◼ ► that with gmail if i need to find something i just search for it and i just gave up i just gave up it's a
01:24:51 ◼ ► little like that you're going to need to embrace the idea that you need to leave a track record behind
01:24:56 ◼ ► if you want to be able to use these features whether it's spotlight or siri ai to um search your track record
01:25:03 ◼ ► so my recommendation to you logan and to other people just stop deleting things don't create the mental
01:25:09 ◼ ► overhead in your life of should i keep that message just stop deleting stuff just let it build up
01:25:14 ◼ ► and you'll be able to take the benefit like i is it like the amount of information that an individual
01:25:21 ◼ ► message takes up is not that much now what i will say there is a problem with apple's devices and
01:25:26 ◼ ► message attachments which i think that they need to get better at like removing the attachments
01:25:32 ◼ ► a bit more like that needs to be a bit smarter because i have a very large i message database on my mac
01:25:38 ◼ ► like which i don't need ask the reason i know this is because of how much issue i've been having with storage
01:25:43 ◼ ► on my mac right so i need a new one because i have hundreds of gigabytes of i message attachments that
01:25:48 ◼ ► i'm not sure i need access to all the time um but they're there uh and i and i always get so nervous
01:25:54 ◼ ► anyway we don't need to worry about that for now but just stop deleting stuff just just let it build up
01:25:59 ◼ ► it's just text on a computer it can handle it if you would like to send in a question for us to answer
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