00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is upgrade episode 617 for may 25th 2026 today's show is brought to you by century
00:00:17 ◼ ► fitbod and mercury weather my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by jason snow hi jason
00:00:23 ◼ ► hi mike welcome back thank you so much thank you i love being a listener of the show and last week's
00:00:29 ◼ ► episode was especially good uh i want to thank steven and uh interviewee jeffrey yes for for being on the
00:00:37 ◼ ► show it was really good i'm gonna talk a little bit about that in a minute so very excited about
00:00:42 ◼ ► that but there's no time for any of this because i have a snell talk question for you oh i see and
00:00:47 ◼ ► a snell talk question comes from a mar who says when using mac os on a desktop do you keep safari
00:00:53 ◼ ► full screen or do you keep it smaller in size if it's smaller do you have it maxed out vertically
00:00:58 ◼ ► or horizontally oh well first of all this is a very technical question for snell talk we usually
00:01:04 ◼ ► this is this feels like more of an ask upgrade but i'll take it i'll take it i'll take it hey look
00:01:08 ◼ ► this is what am i wanted they wanted this specifically in snell talk yeah okay i i don't run anything
00:01:16 ◼ ► full screen anything yeah i agree ever on my mac never ever ever ever safari is probably
00:01:25 ◼ ► somewhere between a third and a half my screen width wide on my 27 inch display and it's usually
00:01:34 ◼ ► um probably three quarters of the screen tall oh because i like to have like room for other stuff
00:01:42 ◼ ► to move around and i i don't need unless i have to resize the web browser window for it to be
00:01:47 ◼ ► especially bigger or smaller because of something in it i i i'm a big fan of like having windows be
00:01:53 ◼ ► fractional sizes of my screen so i can have discord over there and slack over there and notes over there
00:01:59 ◼ ► and safari over here and like just have them all that's that's why i like using the mac with multiple
00:02:04 ◼ ► windows and all of that so that i mean that's my answer is is generally i'm sure there's a size at some
00:02:09 ◼ ► point i had an automation i think that automatically resized it to the exact right size that i like but
00:02:15 ◼ ► yeah i can't be bothered i i if i if i resize something and then i make a new window and it's
00:02:20 ◼ ► the wrong size i just grab the corner and make it the right size and then i move on with my life
00:02:23 ◼ ► so i have a moom um shortcut to resize a window and it's set on how big i like my safari window to be
00:02:34 ◼ ► and it's about four fifths of the screen that i'm using um but centered you know so there's like
00:02:43 ◼ ► space on either side so i can grab over things if i want it uh but it is full vertical height because
00:02:49 ◼ ► for me safari if i'm in safari i'm not doing stuff but then i have a bunch of other moom shortcuts if
00:02:54 ◼ ► i want to be doing other things i'll throw it over to the side uh it can go you know occupy any amount
00:02:59 ◼ ► of of uh horizontal uh real estate so like i if i need to use safari with other apps i have many
00:03:07 ◼ ► shortcuts to do that um but by and large when i'm using safari i'm just i'm just surfing the web man
00:03:13 ◼ ► you're just scrolling i'm surfing and scrolling okay thank you to amar for that technical snell
00:03:19 ◼ ► talk question yeah very first designated technical snell talk whoa no hang on too soon uh if you would
00:03:26 ◼ ► like to send in a question of your own for a future episode of the show technical or not
00:03:30 ◼ ► go to upgradefeedback.com and send to them we have some follow-up uh so aaron writes in and says
00:03:38 ◼ ► congratulations jason on the emate 300 a word of warning i briefly had a side hustle repairing these
00:03:47 ◼ ► back in 2008 the grease on the hinge clutch springs started drying out in the early 2000s and as a
00:03:55 ◼ ► result the springs would not appropriately adjust and the lid was open or closed and would ultimately snap
00:04:01 ◼ ► and sometimes tear the display cable yes this is a known issue um i kind of don't care um i looked up
00:04:09 ◼ ► i thought oh well you you need to do some work on the springs to make the springs you know make the hinge
00:04:15 ◼ ► work better and then i found a video where somebody explained what you need to do and i got to the point
00:04:19 ◼ ► where he said now you have to desolder these two cables off the board and i thought nope that was it
00:04:25 ◼ ► yeah that's not surprising like in listening to last week's episode it's very funny that you were
00:04:29 ◼ ► just like at the i brought this one tool because at the exact moment anything more than this one tool
00:04:34 ◼ ► was needed i wasn't the one to do it where steve was like oh steve would fill up his truck with tools
00:04:40 ◼ ► and other computers to maybe do open heart surgery on those old macs oh yeah yeah yeah whereas i brought
00:04:45 ◼ ► i brought uh blue scuzzy and whatever else to a keyboard and a mouse and and that's it steven would have
00:04:51 ◼ ► yeah steven would have had but he has more of that stuff than i do that's part of the point here
00:04:55 ◼ ► yes it does work i did reset it i got the power cable for it and reset it and the emate does work
00:04:59 ◼ ► um i don't really have any plans to do anything with it but it does it does function and uh yeah i mean
00:05:07 ◼ ► if i if i did not have a no solder policy or i had a friend who had a uh was very pro soldering we
00:05:15 ◼ ► you know might desolder it and re-solder it and do all of those things but i'm not doing that i'm strong
00:05:23 ◼ ► just strong policy just strong policy against so understand it will remain as it is and hopefully
00:05:28 ◼ ► it will be remain functional i have a question for you because i was not on the last episode so i
00:05:36 ◼ ► couldn't ask it but i think this is actually you you've you've partly answered at least to the emate
00:05:40 ◼ ► but all of the old computers that you have been collecting do you ever boot them up and do anything
00:05:46 ◼ ► with them well i i take pride in the fact that the computers behind me all work and i as i mentioned
00:05:55 ◼ ► last week the only one that i have that's really severely not working is the mac portable so i i i
00:06:02 ◼ ► take pride in the fact that they work but i i so as a part of the 20 max for 2020 project and thereafter
00:06:11 ◼ ► what i decided to do at one point is i wanted to have the ability to boot different versions of os 10
00:06:18 ◼ ► on different machines because i thought that that would be interesting from a historic perspective to
00:06:22 ◼ ► have that and so i do i have a quick silver power mac g4 over here that has a hard drive in it with
00:06:30 ◼ ► partitions for like every os 10 version it boots and uh so i can boot into all of those and i like
00:06:39 ◼ ► having that the truth is the emulation is so good that a lot of like when i i needed a screenshot the
00:06:46 ◼ ► other day and it was much easier to just run an emulator and take a screenshot then figure out one
00:06:53 ◼ ► how to get that thing running on a on an old computer and two then get the screenshot off of it
00:07:00 ◼ ► mm-hmm so um the truth is it's more that vague that i like the idea that they can run um and that they
00:07:09 ◼ ► function than it is that i actually use them for anything okay i mean that's the truth of it it's more
00:07:15 ◼ ► like a little preservation a little just set dressing and a little pride that i i've got some some of them
00:07:23 ◼ ► functioning but the the reality is in most cases if you want to look up what was something that was going
00:07:31 ◼ ► on in mac os in 2009 or whatever 2007 2002 whenever it is um you could probably either emulate it by
00:07:41 ◼ ► running it in you know emulator on your mac or even in a web browser because of infinite mac so uh it's less
00:07:49 ◼ ► it's less useful it's mostly i mean unlike steven i think who who really is collecting them at at a
00:07:56 ◼ ► completely other level i my big motivator was 20 max for 2020 and then building this shelf behind me so
00:08:04 ◼ ► that if i'm on a various podcasts like mac break weekly every week i've got a nice selection of
00:08:10 ◼ ► interesting looking computers behind me that's kind of so it's also just set pieces uh so we're
00:08:16 ◼ ► going to jump back a little bit to um a couple of weeks ago talking about apple and intel and such
00:08:21 ◼ ► henry wrote in and said on the topic of apple's chip strategy i wanted to mention that other apple
00:08:27 ◼ ► products like apple watch airpods potentially smart glasses and the like have chips that aren't on the
00:08:33 ◼ ► most advanced process node these chips could be manufactured by intel and samsung because they aren't as high
00:08:39 ◼ ► volume as the a or m series chips even apple's cellular and wi-fi bluetooth chips could go into
00:08:44 ◼ ► them they don't have to make the most cutting edge chips these are the legacy nodes and it's true
00:08:49 ◼ ► it's true and i expect that they will do that but what i will also say is that doesn't solve the
00:08:58 ◼ ► problem of the a and m series chips all being made in taiwan it can get you started right that like
00:09:04 ◼ ► maybe the beginning of your partnership with somebody else they're producing things that are less
00:09:09 ◼ ► important but the whole point of the discussion we're having and the whole point of doing this
00:09:14 ◼ ► is to do the important chips because that's what actually matters yeah in the long in the long run
00:09:20 ◼ ► you just don't want to have a single source in taiwan for for your most important chips but
00:09:26 ◼ ► this is an absolutely true point that the the older nodes are going to be easier to manufacture elsewhere
00:09:31 ◼ ► it's like the india iphone building strategy right it began with the se then it became the regular phone but
00:09:38 ◼ ► and now they started building the pro phones immediately there so also you know i i want to
00:09:44 ◼ ► point out um i don't think tsmc is building all of apple's chips now anyway right i think they get
00:09:51 ◼ ► chips from other fabs that are running on old nodes that was the whole that's where legacy nodes came to be a
00:09:59 ◼ ► refrain for tim cook is he was talking about the you know getting a wi-fi chip from broadcom or whatever
00:10:06 ◼ ► and wherever they manufacture i know apple does that themselves now but i i actually don't know for a
00:10:11 ◼ ► fact that tsmc is their partner on that and they certainly don't need to be although again it depends
00:10:16 ◼ ► what process they're using and all of that but so this is a good point it just doesn't there's lots of
00:10:21 ◼ ► business they could bring to places that are on older technology nodes they just that part of the
00:10:29 ◼ ► strategy that we're discussing is also just making a more diversified source of iphone and mac chips
00:10:34 ◼ ► so say the apple watch when it gets a new system on a chip is that considered a legacy node
00:10:41 ◼ ► oh i don't i don't know enough about it i mean they don't they don't boast about the apple watch being
00:10:46 ◼ ► on a three nanometer process do they so the answer is probably not yeah so it's like they're probably
00:10:51 ◼ ► using some technology that was used somewhere else at some point that they've now been able to get
00:10:57 ◼ ► into this but yes you say it's not the probably not on the most cutting edge you know all the chips
00:11:03 ◼ ► that are going inside of the the um the airpods or whatever it's not like an a19 pro in there right
00:11:10 ◼ ► it's like it's something different but yeah it's interesting uh an anonymous anonymous question uh answer
00:11:17 ◼ ► oh i've got i've got real time real time follow up apple so thank you thank you to uh david schaub for
00:11:23 ◼ ► sending this the apple silicon a page on wikipedia does list the processes and the latest s series chips
00:11:31 ◼ ► which are for the apple watch are four nanometer process and um the previous s887 s6 were a seven
00:11:39 ◼ ► nanometer process so yes these are legacy nodes and the apple c1 cellular is also on a four nanometer
00:11:49 ◼ ► process for the baseband so so that i mean yes that makes sense right these are on um other older
00:11:56 ◼ ► processes and that's um yes so of course if they're not if they're not using other partners they certainly
00:12:02 ◼ ► could be it just doesn't solve the other problem anyway coming back to an anonymous person wrote and has
00:12:07 ◼ ► said on the recent episode discussing steve jobs in exile you were talking about jobs's motivations that
00:12:13 ◼ ► he was not an enterprise guy i was wondering what you thought about if part of that could be that
00:12:17 ◼ ► although you can get rich selling to the enterprise and to government you're not going to get the
00:12:22 ◼ ► adulation and love from the enterprise and the government and maybe that was what steve really liked
00:12:28 ◼ ► i i i think that what i think that's a little bit of the cart before the horse i i think jobs
00:12:41 ◼ ► conceived of consumer products i think that is how he thought is it also true that what excites him about
00:12:49 ◼ ► that is the idea that the general public is going to use them and love them sure they go together but i i
00:12:56 ◼ ► i don't think it's look we're psychoanalyzing steve jobs now i don't think i don't think which we could
00:13:03 ◼ ► do it um i think he's more motivated by pursuing a vision of making products out of technology that
00:13:13 ◼ ► regular people will like putting them in the kitchen you know putting them in your home putting them on you
00:13:20 ◼ ► in your pocket i think he's more focused on that than he is on how do i get adulation but i do think
00:13:30 ◼ ► they are connected in the sense that yes the ns well it's entirely true i mean the nsa will show you
00:13:36 ◼ ► some love but it's going to be secret love mostly in money um yeah big institutions are are just gonna
00:13:44 ◼ ► i think he's a counter i think he was a counterculture guy very counterculture influenced
00:13:49 ◼ ► guy grew up in the 60s i think he had a suspicion of big institutions and made the mistake in part
00:13:58 ◼ ► because next was kind of designed to not step on apple because apple was you know threatening and suing
00:14:08 ◼ ► steve jobs they ended up in a niche that was exactly the wrong niche for steve jobs's mindset
00:14:14 ◼ ► okay that makes sense uh i just wanted to say you you wrote a review of steve jobs in exile
00:14:20 ◼ ► um on six colors which i'll put in the show notes i realized all i had done is interview
00:14:25 ◼ ► the author on upgrade but i hadn't actually written my review um and this is one where i asked actually
00:14:32 ◼ ► i asked the wall street journal book editor if i could review that too after i finished my
00:14:35 ◼ ► david poe book and he said i i just assigned it so you can't and and so the wall street journal
00:14:40 ◼ ► very nice review of it um so i realized oh geez i need to do that the book's out now so i did write
00:14:46 ◼ ► that last week so so i had been planning to read this book i was interested in it but the interview
00:14:50 ◼ ► i enjoyed so much i started reading it immediately and so i'm i'm working my way through it now um i will
00:14:57 ◼ ► say the the uk or the europe cover i prefer to the us cover i've put a link in the show notes to
00:15:04 ◼ ► at the amazon uk listing but it focuses like color wise much more on the next colors and has a little
00:15:11 ◼ ► cube in there and stuff like oh nice i like i like the cover a lot i don't know why they do that like
00:15:16 ◼ ► why different markets get different covers i'm sure someone could tell me that i'm sure you have many
00:15:22 ◼ ► friends that could tell me that i think comes down to different publishers right and different
00:15:27 ◼ ► publishers and different markets have their method of selling books and they know what works i think
00:15:32 ◼ ► that's kind of how it is yeah and this this this one i just like it i think it shows steve more on the
00:15:51 ◼ ► but i am i am so i was so aware of him as a kid before he returned it's like i i don't i don't know
00:16:02 ◼ ► why you know what i mean like when he came back to apple i was aware of how big a deal that was
00:16:08 ◼ ► but i'd never known i'd never seen him there prior you know like in in kind of the exile years
00:16:15 ◼ ► yeah still was able to capture this allure and i'm looking forward to reading more about that
00:16:20 ◼ ► even though he was failing he still had this allure it is the legend i mean i think a lot of what drove
00:16:27 ◼ ► him and the currency that he was able to spend in being the legendary founder of apple and the legendary
00:16:34 ◼ ► creator of the mac and even though he left before the mac really became successful all the success kind of
00:16:42 ◼ ► accrued to him yeah right like i mean that's the truth is we can talk about a subject for another
00:16:47 ◼ ► time perhaps um jean-louis gasset and john scully and where they took the mac after they kicked steve
00:16:55 ◼ ► jobs out basically i mean he they kicked him to siberia basically and then he quit but um it is ironic
00:17:02 ◼ ► that i think as they made the mac more and more successful it just built the legend of steve jobs
00:17:07 ◼ ► yeah i think that's true um the i think toy story definitely did something like yeah yeah no i mean
00:17:20 ◼ ► the flip side of it right is is pixar where he was successful where he was more hands-off was like
00:17:26 ◼ ► the positive lesson for him while he was getting the crap kicked out of him at next it does uh steve
00:17:32 ◼ ► jobs in exile have anything about pixar in it it's got a little bit okay it talks about it a little bit
00:17:37 ◼ ► sure not not in the incredible detail that it does about next but there are stories about him going
00:17:43 ◼ ► up to pixar and uh ed catmall runs writes the uh the afterward to the book so oh cool i really like
00:17:50 ◼ ► the forward by daniel lewin like that was a really great story so it's very clear that daniel lewin who
00:17:55 ◼ ► was one of the prime movers in um next was also a prime mover in making steve jobs in exile he's a
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00:19:41 ◼ ► it's time for upstream jason snell oh i brought it back it's back everybody downstream downstream died so
00:19:53 ◼ ► upstream could live is where we are so i guess so welcome back to our fallen friend uh apple broadcast
00:20:00 ◼ ► an mls game live on saturday using only iphone 17 pro cameras all of the footage of the game was shot
00:20:10 ◼ ► on iphone assuming that it was airing rigs there's a i saw an instagram reel today where they showed off
00:20:16 ◼ ► some of the production rigs um that they were using i assume it's like the ones they used at the mlb games
00:20:21 ◼ ► that they've had an iphone camera at where it's basically like tied into a breakout box that is
00:20:28 ◼ ► you know mounted with the camera on the tripod and all of that and i'm assuming also similar to some of
00:20:34 ◼ ► the stuff that they've used to shoot the keynotes right where we see an imagery of that where it's like
00:20:39 ◼ ► it essentially looks like a full production camera but there's just an iphone in the middle
00:20:43 ◼ ► you know it's got all the rigging and all the gear like all the gear around it and stuff um apple said
00:20:49 ◼ ► with the cameras positioned throughout the venue the broadcast will deliver pristine video quality
00:20:54 ◼ ► alongside dynamic new perspectives that bring viewers closer to the action made possible by the
00:20:59 ◼ ► small form factor of the iphone jason was this your experience did you watch it i watched some of it
00:21:05 ◼ ► it really is amazing if you look at the the there's the brian tong went and did a tiktok
00:21:11 ◼ ► where he's got like it he shows one of these enormous cameras and then at the back of it there's an iphone
00:21:19 ◼ ► right like so it's it's there as we knew from the mlb thing what they're doing is they're they're
00:21:24 ◼ ► putting it in um the context of modern tv production equipment and then it's just a piece of the puzzle
00:21:31 ◼ ► um it looked perfectly normal to me they had some shots they had camera you know sometimes i don't
00:21:36 ◼ ► know what whether they always have like little gold cameras and all that i think they do i mean the
00:21:40 ◼ ► advantage is that they can put those you know they can put those cameras everywhere but the primary
00:21:45 ◼ ► cameras were probably with really you know the extra optics like that camera that was in the tiktok
00:21:52 ◼ ► video where it's you know it is it's not it's just like when we talk about a movie shot on iphone like
00:21:57 ◼ ► it's not like the iphone is just in somebody's hand and they're in video mode right like it's
00:22:02 ◼ ► there are professional tools that augment it it's just a piece of the puzzle but it's part of their
00:22:06 ◼ ► marketing to do it that way and i think it is impressive that like at its heart the iphone camera
00:22:12 ◼ ► is good enough that it can do broadcast quality with accoutrements right that's that's always the catch
00:22:20 ◼ ► yeah it's like if you can watch this game and don't feel like it looks bad that is an incredible
00:22:28 ◼ ► achievement on its own right like if they can do you're like oh this looks good it's like that's
00:22:33 ◼ ► iphones you know it's and yes they're in all of that gear but it's still an iphone and so i think i think
00:22:38 ◼ ► it is an impressive thing to do i wonder what the goal of this is if there even is one go hey there he
00:22:47 ◼ ► goes uh yeah i think it is just like with the mlb stuff i think it's just like the shot on iphone
00:22:55 ◼ ► with movies the point is to say the iphone camera doesn't have compromises and it's so and it's in
00:23:03 ◼ ► in some ways it is the iphone camera is so pro that you as a regular person don't need to worry about it
00:23:10 ◼ ► it's going to be great yes even though yes all of it is true it's like all these things are on iphone
00:23:15 ◼ ► but obviously if you're a professional cinematographer you're going to have a different
00:23:18 ◼ ► rig etc etc etc all that is true but in the end it boils down to marketing and it boils down to
00:23:23 ◼ ► sending a message of uh of a quality level apple stuff is so good that you could shoot a movie with
00:23:29 ◼ ► it and they have and you could shoot an entire sporting event with it and they have so don't
00:23:33 ◼ ► worry about it you're going to get the best when you get an iphone pro think that's it i think that's
00:23:38 ◼ ► the entirety of the message is you can do all of this it's like when we say pro we mean it and like
00:23:44 ◼ ► this is them kind of putting their their money with their mouth is kind of stuff we know you're not
00:23:48 ◼ ► going to do that dear consumer but you know you you know your phone is the same one that shot that
00:23:55 ◼ ► movie and your phone is the same one that shot that uh soccer match you know it's like when you're
00:23:59 ◼ ► on a plane it's like is there a doctor on board it's basically like you know you're in the football
00:24:03 ◼ ► stadiums like does anyone have an iphone we need to shoot this game and you'll be like we need an
00:24:07 ◼ ► iphone 17 i'm good i'm equipped and now i can jump in if needed talking about apple and football they
00:24:13 ◼ ► just released a real madrid documentary and immersive video on vision pro um this is a quote from from you
00:24:20 ◼ ► here apple's immersive productions are really benefiting from the larger selection of immersive cameras now
00:24:25 ◼ ► that black magic is apparently cranking out its ursa cine camera in volume do you think there's a
00:24:30 ◼ ► connection here they said there were more than 30 cameras that they used for this and it was mostly
00:24:34 ◼ ► capturing one game okay that's significantly different to what we've seen in other stuff
00:24:39 ◼ ► those early vision pro ones you could tell they had one camera maybe two you could you could you could
00:24:44 ◼ ► tell and they said they had more than 30 um they're all over the the match but they're also like
00:24:50 ◼ ► watching the 90 year old man who's watching at home and they're with the taxi driver who's watching
00:24:56 ◼ ► from his cab and they're with the bar where the bartender is the president of the supporters club
00:25:03 ◼ ► um and like that level of i mean you just they just couldn't do that before because they didn't have
00:25:10 ◼ ► the cameras for it and now they do and it makes a difference in terms of how how something gets shot
00:25:16 ◼ ► and so it shows immersive video having a more moves than it did when there were no cameras to shoot
00:25:24 ◼ ► that said a lot of the moves are very similar it's still a lot of like sports highlights interspersed
00:25:29 ◼ ► with um you know music and inspirational quotes from soccer players as they practice and then they
00:25:36 ◼ ► show them making goals in the game and you know it's you know but the soccer action was great and i think
00:25:43 ◼ ► one of the things i noticed about like there's a there's a high up angle that i thought was actually
00:25:47 ◼ ► really great and understanding kind of soccer tactics in a way that i i don't normally get from
00:25:51 ◼ ► watching on tv um and there are some closer shots where you see again i i don't know if it would work
00:25:58 ◼ ► for live soccer but for highlights like what i always think when i watch high level soccer is the technical
00:26:07 ◼ ► skill of the players is astounding and it's all about like where they put their feet and stuff and if you're
00:26:13 ◼ ► watching a shot that's covering half the pitch it's real hard to see that stuff um and so you're
00:26:20 ◼ ► just like watching little you know little stick figures bobbing around out there and then you see
00:26:24 ◼ ► a detail and you're like these people are so incredibly like that how did that guy get free and the answer is
00:26:30 ◼ ► a wild series of steps to fake out the other person and uh and in immersive that comes through and is
00:26:37 ◼ ► very impressive so there's a bunch of impressive things there but again it's a 20 minute thing
00:26:41 ◼ ► it's about a a match that happened six months ago and and like it's the same old story right which is
00:26:49 ◼ ► it's interesting it's an interesting immersive short sports doc that makes you feel um like you saw this
00:26:57 ◼ ► match which is great but um i keep wondering about actual like live sports and all we've got so far
00:27:04 ◼ ► is the nba demos but but i do think that the big story honestly for me is that you could see that
00:27:09 ◼ ► they had lots of cameras this time like like the kind of camera setup that you would have for a
00:27:13 ◼ ► professional documentary that was normal and the old immersive videos weren't like that because they
00:27:20 ◼ ► like we have a camera to shoot all this or maybe two so yeah and it feels like to get that to get what
00:27:26 ◼ ► we want which is like more kind of more action stuff you need more cameras and so this is you know
00:27:31 ◼ ► the more movies and documentaries and stuff that could be made with people managing 20 30 of these
00:27:37 ◼ ► things the more likely it is to get to a point where somebody could be managing that for a live
00:27:42 ◼ ► production too yes yes for sure i mean that's that's why they were able to do those lakers games is they
00:27:49 ◼ ► had enough of the black it's not quite the same camera because it's black magic live so it's obviously
00:27:54 ◼ ► a different setup for live capture but i'm sure a lot of it is the same kind of pathway the same
00:28:00 ◼ ► camera uh physically and um the more of those there are the more chance that they'll there will be a
00:28:07 ◼ ► an experimental something but the challenge is what we've debated about those lakers games which is
00:28:13 ◼ ► what's the right way to do it and the only way to find out is to try so i hope they try more
00:28:19 ◼ ► a saddle up rumor roundup jason snell yeehaw the sheriff mark german is reporting on some planned
00:28:26 ◼ ► apple intelligence features for ios 27 these include new writing tools which would work similar
00:28:32 ◼ ► to or kind of like a grammary style grammar checker yeah i'm going to read from mark german the system
00:28:39 ◼ ► appears in a translucent menu that slides up from the bottom of the screen and displays original text
00:28:44 ◼ ► alongside suggested revisions and then mark says you can kind of like approve specific changes or
00:28:49 ◼ ► accept them all or say go away uh i would like this this sounds great to me it's all in the details
00:28:56 ◼ ► right because like um because i i have grammarly i pay for grammarly and i do it because i don't have
00:29:02 ◼ ► copy editors and i it is an extra layer between me and the stuff i post and what it finds generally is
00:29:09 ◼ ► this is a correctly spelled word but it's the wrong word because it's a typo and you typed
00:29:13 ◼ ► uh into another word and it knows the context so it'll correct that or you omitted a word here
00:29:29 ◼ ► so you use the wrong tense that happens all the time to me where it's just like i'm not thinking far
00:29:33 ◼ ► enough back in the sentence and it can do that what i like about grammarly is that there's a mode where
00:29:39 ◼ ► it brings up a little box and it lets me step through its suggested changes and go yes no because
00:29:44 ◼ ► there are a bunch of them that i don't agree with um that that it's misreading what i'm doing and i go
00:29:49 ◼ ► no no no yes yes no no no what i don't like is having to play hunt with hunt the underlines and click
00:29:57 ◼ ► on them which is what it wants me to do so and my experience with writing tools and apple's tools is
00:30:02 ◼ ► similar which is this sounds good i hope it's got a ui that makes it usable because that's the trick
00:30:09 ◼ ► is is i need to be able to step through my document using its suggestions and agree or disagree as i go
00:30:17 ◼ ► and do i lose does it lose context if i click out to do a manual edit is it gone or does it stay
00:30:22 ◼ ► all of these are my questions one of the problems with writing tools and i know we talked about this
00:30:28 ◼ ► when it shipped is apple's got a whole like existing spellcheck infrastructure and then they have writing
00:30:33 ◼ ► tools and they do very similar things and they're completely disconnected from each other because they
00:30:38 ◼ ► rushed writing tools onto the platform so it's like you should integrate all of these things into one
00:30:49 ◼ ► so you said about it's all in the details and this one sounds good to me but the details of
00:30:55 ◼ ► this that we have so for the next part don't uh apple apparently want to try and elevate writing tools
00:31:00 ◼ ► even more across the system this time looking to add a write with siri toggle at the top of the keyboard
00:31:06 ◼ ► and a help me write button that can appear when working in a text field this sounds like too much
00:31:13 ◼ ► i think it depends on who you are i am not interested in this and would like to turn it off
00:31:18 ◼ ► already and it's not even uh beta yeah uh but you know maybe some people want this i don't know
00:31:24 ◼ ► i don't know i i'm trying to take the approach with ai based writing stuff that i'm a writer
00:31:31 ◼ ► and so i want to be understanding that a lot of people really struggle with writing and
00:31:39 ◼ ► that technology may help them get their message across in a way that they're not able to do so i
00:31:46 ◼ ► want to be open to it depending on how it's implemented is that it comes back again it comes
00:31:51 ◼ ► down to that um how how do they do it do they do a good job at it is it something that doesn't feel
00:31:57 ◼ ► heavy-handed and annoying or is it just like you know clippy like just getting in your way when you
00:32:02 ◼ ► just want to write something i that i don't know mark reports that apple is also looking to advance
00:32:08 ◼ ► shortcuts of a prompt based approach where the user describes what they want and the system will go
00:32:13 ◼ ► ahead and build it somewhat reminiscent of what our friend federico released last week he's been
00:32:18 ◼ ► basically making this on his own it's called shortcuts playground people should go check it out
00:32:22 ◼ ► there'll be a link in the show notes to that yeah and you know federico was assuming that he could
00:32:26 ◼ ► potentially be sherlocked and that was why he wanted to get out before wwc i wonder about this
00:32:32 ◼ ► like i you know because it's like what happens when people inevitably ask for a thing that shortcuts
00:32:37 ◼ ► just doesn't do like what happens it's just like i can't do that i mean yeah i think so and and then
00:32:50 ◼ ► in like field these days people kind of just get what they want from these tools right like right
00:32:57 ◼ ► if you're like give me an image give me some text like is what is this it's going to give you the
00:33:01 ◼ ► answer shortcuts is a limited system and and you could ask for something that you think is quite
00:33:07 ◼ ► simple but like so for example you could say uh download the audio from a youtube video
00:33:12 ◼ ► it's a thing that people wanted to do with shortcuts for years and have done it in weird and hacky
00:33:17 ◼ ► it seems like something your computer should be able to do for you i don't think shortcuts is going
00:33:22 ◼ ► to give you an answer to that and then at that point how useful of a system is it to people it'd be
00:33:27 ◼ ► interesting well yeah i mean i i think the goal is that especially it'll be for relatively simple
00:33:34 ◼ ► functionality that you could say you know for example this is an automation that i actually use
00:33:39 ◼ ► which is when i connect to my bluetooth shower speaker i would like my phone to go into do not disturb
00:33:48 ◼ ► okay i built that as a shortcut but like it would be better for 99 of users if they could just say hello
00:33:59 ◼ ► shortcuts when i connect to my bluetooth shower speaker i want you to set my focus mode to do not disturb
00:34:08 ◼ ► and when i disconnect i want you to set it back to off yeah and have it do that like i had to figure
00:34:16 ◼ ► that out and i have no problem doing that because i know how to use shortcuts but most people don't
00:34:20 ◼ ► but the functionality is there it's just it's too complex even now so more complex stuff it is going
00:34:26 ◼ ► to say oh i don't think i can do that or i tried and it didn't work and all of that i would think that
00:34:30 ◼ ► also i would hope that some of this will motivate apple because there are things that are part of the
00:34:35 ◼ ► system that seem very logical to be automated that apple doesn't allow you to automate and i wonder
00:34:40 ◼ ► if part of this process has also been they run a bunch of testing of these things and they're like
00:34:44 ◼ ► oh geez we really need to add access to that don't we and actually get their own stuff together i think
00:34:49 ◼ ► that would be great so we'll see how it goes but you're right it will be interesting because it's not
00:34:54 ◼ ► going to be able to do it everything the goal is like it can it do some basic stuff to make people
00:34:58 ◼ ► happier because telling them how to build a shortcut and stuff is a lot but if they can just tell the
00:35:06 ◼ ► phone can you do this and have it give them an automation that actually works that's awesome i love
00:35:11 ◼ ► that idea it's like for people like us it's like the reason that federico could build this tool and it
00:35:16 ◼ ► makes sense is that we have an idea of how of what shortcuts is capable of doing right sometimes it
00:35:22 ◼ ► can just be a pain it's like i needed to do this this one thing one time maybe and i could spend 20
00:35:29 ◼ ► minutes setting up the shortcut like it's like i don't really want to do that but it would it'd be
00:35:34 ◼ ► very convenient for me to have this shortcut right now yes and it's like but do i want to go through all
00:35:39 ◼ ► of the things that i have to go through so it's like you can for us it's like this could be a very
00:35:44 ◼ ► good native feature to have as well also apple is working on a feature to let someone generate
00:35:51 ◼ ► wallpapers for their devices powered by image playgrounds okay speaking of image playgrounds
00:35:58 ◼ ► in his power on newsletter mark reported that both genmoji and image playgrounds are going to get
00:36:04 ◼ ► quote a major visual quality upgrade sure and this is actually coming from apple apparently having
00:36:10 ◼ ► improved their own models not just having access to third-party models yeah i my lack of enthusiasm for
00:36:20 ◼ ► the last two minutes has been because i don't like ai generated imagery no i think genmoji is okay
00:36:34 ◼ ► great idea that needs to be much better than it is it doesn't really go the way that you want it to
00:36:38 ◼ ► and so i'm hoping that this model may actually produce better options there that would be good
00:36:45 ◼ ► and i know some i know people use you know procedural or uh ai generated art like i i know they do but
00:36:52 ◼ ► like i don't yeah and i don't like it and i don't like how it looks and i have a hard time being
00:36:57 ◼ ► enthusiastic about it's one of the things i don't like about in addition to llm you know writing
00:37:04 ◼ ► just being not good and being overused also the the imagery is not great and i don't like it but
00:37:17 ◼ ► okay you're using apple's models not not google's models because i bet google's models are better at
00:37:23 ◼ ► this than apple's models are so why are they are they using apple's models really or are those
00:37:28 ◼ ► apple models that they call apple models but they're actually white labeled gemini models i don't know
00:37:33 ◼ ► i i i guess we'll see i just this is i know that this is going to be a real tangent here mike hold on
00:37:41 ◼ ► tight i know that in the papal encyclical about ai released today that the pope said man i i i i don't know
00:37:54 ◼ ► about this and so yeah and so that that sentence i was like what's he talking about yeah yeah okay
00:38:00 ◼ ► one of the things that one of the things the pope said is essentially i know that we can look at ai
00:38:06 ◼ ► and say um that there are ways to use the tools ethically and ways to use the tools unethically
00:38:16 ◼ ► but he also said however if fundamentally the the thing that is creating the tools is unethical we
00:38:27 ◼ ► must consider that most of all that if ai his he you know it's his typical pope saying don't enjoy
00:38:33 ◼ ► things because he's the pope but you know he's saying basically like you know basically you can't
00:38:39 ◼ ► use an unethical tool ethically even if you're trying to use it for good if it's a fundamentally
00:38:45 ◼ ► unethical tool it's unethical um and and so while acknowledging his holiness i will say
00:38:53 ◼ ► i prefer using an unethical tool ethically to using an unethical tool unethically and i just i just find
00:39:01 ◼ ► a lot of this this uh this generated content um gross and like distasteful in a way that saying make me a
00:39:12 ◼ ► make me a shortcut or build me a playlist or write me a python script those are the things that i find
00:39:20 ◼ ► not distasteful but i also want to acknowledge that there is an argument to me to be made that
00:39:27 ◼ ► they are all kind of fruits of a poisonous tree but um but i'm never gonna get hyped about image
00:39:33 ◼ ► playgrounds it's just never gonna happen no i was thinking about this when i was on my vacation last
00:39:40 ◼ ► week i was thinking about image playgrounds as you do as you do i mean some people think about the
00:39:45 ◼ ► roman empire some people think about image playgrounds that's just how it is image playgrounds is my roman
00:39:49 ◼ ► empire like absolutely um i was i was thinking about it having just listened to connected because i was
00:39:56 ◼ ► also not unconnected uh it's true week before last now and um they were talking about image playgrounds
00:40:04 ◼ ► and it was just just and about being advanced they were talking about it with other models which is
00:40:09 ◼ ► apparently another thing right that you know you may be able to put uh gemini in there as well you can
00:40:15 ◼ ► just choose who you want to make your images just there will be a story one day i believe about just how
00:40:24 ◼ ► much of a massive mistake and disaster this tool was because it's just so bad right and it was so bad
00:40:32 ◼ ► quality wise from day one let alone all of the ethical problems with it let alone the thing that
00:40:40 ◼ ► frustrated me the most and continues to is that like its whole proposition is make fake images of people
00:40:47 ◼ ► in your life which is like just like a to me a terrible thing to do and but now they're in it now
00:40:54 ◼ ► and so they're just continuing down this road for god knows how long um sorry pope for gosh knows how
00:41:02 ◼ ► long you know i think the pope might be listening i don't know um so i i don't you know at this i i i i would
00:41:08 ◼ ► love one day to know the story about image playgrounds because i don't think it was a good one no no definitely not
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00:43:26 ◼ ► their support of this show and relay so we are two weeks away from wwdc no no no we are drafting
00:43:38 ◼ ► next week no it can't be uh i had originally set i set a task to do the draft prep you know like to
00:43:47 ◼ ► start building it together i set this task for the 2nd of june that would have been the day after the
00:43:54 ◼ ► draft so that's not the right day to do that i've now set it for tomorrow because i lost a little bit
00:44:01 ◼ ► of track there in in the old calendar so i wanted to you know because because we do the draft and the
00:44:07 ◼ ► draft is what it is it's a game and and we're not necessarily representing what we think and feel
00:44:18 ◼ ► wow i think that wwdc 2024 set a weird precedent that now i kind of feel like i never truly know what
00:44:27 ◼ ► my emotional state will be after wwdc where previously it was always either i'm really excited
00:44:34 ◼ ► or ah there just wasn't what i wanted when wwdc 24 gave me a shell shock feeling and and i'm upset
00:44:43 ◼ ► and angry which is not really a thing that i'd had before and so now i kind of feel like i you know
00:44:50 ◼ ► it's it's nice to kind of where are we are we feeling good what things are we already questioning
00:44:58 ◼ ► maybe have concerns about so overall how are you feeling right now about the wwdc on the horizon
00:45:05 ◼ ► i feel like this is upgrade on hard mode because you're you know you're just asking me for feelings
00:45:10 ◼ ► yeah um oof you know i love them i know i know you do you eat them up i i will say my my wwdc experience
00:45:20 ◼ ► is different from yours and this is because i've been covering it since the 20th century
00:45:25 ◼ ► since the 90s uh and so on one level i i just view it as as coverage time content you know gathering
00:45:40 ◼ ► and writing and recording and i i it it takes me a while to step back from like just it's a lot of work
00:45:48 ◼ ► and then it's also setting my agenda for the next summer and fall and year to think about it
00:45:55 ◼ ► because because another little apple is going to do what it's going to do but if i look back and i say
00:46:13 ◼ ► had to make good on its promises that was the goal right it was make good on our promises because we
00:46:22 ◼ ► failed that the year before okay this year it's more like they have to deliver right they have to
00:46:33 ◼ ► deliver a coherent ai strategy they have to deliver what they failed to deliver in 2024
00:46:37 ◼ ► whereas 2025 was like we need to we need to deliver anything to show you that we will fulfill
00:46:48 ◼ ► ai strategy that they punted on more or less last year yeah you like you're saying about the promises
00:46:54 ◼ ► in 25 it was you've got to deliver on the promises you make here right i think is what you're saying
00:46:59 ◼ ► right like the promises you make at wwc you have to deliver them everything they announced last year
00:47:04 ◼ ► wwdc they shipped because they didn't announce anything that they weren't confident was going
00:47:08 ◼ ► to ship because they wanted to say we're sorry we broke that promise last year yeah but what they
00:47:12 ◼ ► didn't do is fulfill the promises from 2024 and that's what 2026 should be about they need to
00:47:21 ◼ ► deliver an ai strategy i still do not believe their vows yes they're renewing their vows is a
00:47:28 ◼ ► beautiful way to put it because what they're not going to do is ship all the stuff that they
00:47:32 ◼ ► announced in 2024 no i don't i think there were things in there we will never see they will be
00:47:38 ◼ ► memory hold away no never spoken about again the guy in charge of ai in 2024 is gone yes the the person
00:47:46 ◼ ► in charge of the siri team is gone yes there's a there's new people in charge of ai and uh and you
00:47:55 ◼ ► know craig federighi is now officially in charge of this whole kind of like effort i don't expect that
00:48:00 ◼ ► they'll be held to the promises of their predecessors but they will be held to the expectation that they
00:48:06 ◼ ► will make uh important strategic announcements and so on that level i think it'll be interesting and i
00:48:14 ◼ ► think we will want to see what they want what they are willing to promise and i think this comes back
00:48:19 ◼ ► to the conflict between 24 and 25 because 25 is about what's doable and very pragmatic and 24
00:48:25 ◼ ► they got ahead of their skis the problem is i think there's a real risk especially since they always
00:48:32 ◼ ► come out right after google io i think there's a real risk that apple takes it carefully and doesn't
00:48:42 ◼ ► over promise and as a result the the net effect of wwdc is a bit of a disappointment because they're being
00:48:53 ◼ ► too restrained and they're perceived as being behind now on one level that not doing that is what got
00:49:02 ◼ ► them into trouble and into trouble in 24 right like that that this is literally they felt the pressure
00:49:11 ◼ ► you're you know it's not a positive outcome to say apple announced a bunch of things that they're
00:49:19 ◼ ► willing to ship in the fall but they're not interesting right like they need to show that armed
00:49:26 ◼ ► with their gemini partnership and two years of rethinking this that they're going to do
00:49:33 ◼ ► appley stuff with ai that will allow their platform to be relevant and again they're not
00:49:42 ◼ ► necessarily going to be i mean people will judge them however they will but like in the end it's their
00:49:47 ◼ ► customers who need to judge them is it useful is it the thing i want am i looking longingly over
00:49:52 ◼ ► at what's happening on android or is this all just a lot of yelling but in reality my iphone does
00:49:58 ◼ ► everything i want and i'm happy with it you're right they don't have to match what google does but they
00:50:04 ◼ ► do need to use ai technology in places that make the experience better and that's going to be an
00:50:11 ◼ ► interesting balance for them to walk i think yeah i i feel like this year is is is the real apple
00:50:21 ◼ ► right like this is the actual one 2024 was a bit of a fake out they generate they gave us the name and
00:50:28 ◼ ► and not really much else and this year is like okay we gave you a year off now what what are you
00:50:36 ◼ ► bringing to the table yeah and siri i mean that's the other thing is that yes that siri at the center of
00:50:46 ◼ ► this they need to fix it and they and and what does that look like and um and again they're going to
00:50:51 ◼ ► make promises so there will be skepticism there will and there should be anytime apple says we made siri
00:50:57 ◼ ► better everybody should be like really i'll see i'll believe it when i see it but they have to do it
00:51:03 ◼ ► they have to have a unified strategy they need to here's the thing 2024 was panic they panicked
00:51:11 ◼ ► they were late they felt they were late they slapped a bunch of stuff together that wasn't up
00:51:15 ◼ ► to their standards the stuff that did ship felt slapped on a bunch of stuff didn't ship it was a
00:51:20 ◼ ► disaster okay they took the loss 25 was about repairing people's uh trust in them a little bit
00:51:28 ◼ ► that they're like we get the message we need to deliver what we promise 26 really is you've had two
00:51:34 ◼ ► years what you need to give us is well thought out functionality not a new collection of slap
00:51:43 ◼ ► together features and that's one of the things that i will definitely be looking for is does this feel
00:51:50 ◼ ► coherent in a way that 24 didn't because i'm telling you we we can over focus on the stuff that didn't ship
00:51:58 ◼ ► the stuff that did ship wasn't very good it was very standalone not well integrated you had a bunch
00:52:05 ◼ ► of things that were running alongside of other things that were very similar like the writing tools thing
00:52:09 ◼ ► because they didn't have time to integrate everything they didn't have time for a big plan
00:52:14 ◼ ► they just slapped it in there because it was a thing they thought they could ship i i want to see
00:52:19 ◼ ► what they do when they've had at least a little bit of time to actually think about this and that and
00:52:25 ◼ ► that there are new people in charge who are thinking about this as a high level and thinking
00:52:28 ◼ ► sort of like what can we do as apple to use this technology to create things that people want
00:52:33 ◼ ► so i want to see a lot less panic i want to see a lot more thoughtfulness and utility i don't want
00:52:40 ◼ ► them chasing the edge cases that the cutting edge ai companies are doing i want them solving for
00:52:49 ◼ ► iphone problems using ai tools where it's relevant to fix things that their customers want to have fixed
00:52:59 ◼ ► and that means siri working better it does and and having a more familiar interface to do text
00:53:06 ◼ ► conversations and all that with siri like yes it's that um it's the the shortcuts generation is a great
00:53:13 ◼ ► example that solves an issue which is this is an incredibly automatable platform but it's also just
00:53:20 ◼ ► a phone like nobody really wants to do programming on their phone even in shortcuts but if i tell it what
00:53:27 ◼ ► i want it to do and it's capable of doing it that's pretty cool right like i could see a lot of people
00:53:34 ◼ ► not not everybody but more than the tiny fraction of people who use shortcuts and shortcuts becomes like
00:53:40 ◼ ► an infrastructure for this higher level a one level even further abstracted but that gets more users
00:53:46 ◼ ► that's a victory but that's in general that's what i want to see is i want to see them i want to see
00:53:52 ◼ ► features that make sense as a user not that makes sense in order to placate critics in the industry or in
00:54:00 ◼ ► the investment community who don't really actually understand what apple is all about and are just hoping
00:54:07 ◼ ► that apple like there's so many people who just want apple to act like everybody else and this has
00:54:12 ◼ ► always been the case and apple doesn't succeed when it acts like everybody else it succeeds when it acts
00:54:17 ◼ ► like apple but that's the question is is it going to do that has does it have a good appropriate apple
00:54:24 ◼ ► response to the last two years in terms of the progression of ai okay so there is this technology that
00:54:31 ◼ ► exists great how do you integrate it into the operating systems in a way that feels natural
00:54:38 ◼ ► helpful and as you say cohesive overall right it's like okay great you have this technology
00:54:44 ◼ ► but what are you actually going to do to enable your users to have a better experience with it
00:54:49 ◼ ► because as you say the tools that they have shipped they're disjointed they're so disjointed
00:54:54 ◼ ► it wasn't a strategy no no they called it apple intelligence but it was a it was like a an umbrella
00:55:00 ◼ ► term for a bunch of stuff that they just jammed in there at the last minute out of desperation
00:55:05 ◼ ► and they need to turn the page and you know they need to show a thoughtful set of features and my
00:55:14 ◼ ► concern is that they won't my concern is that they're still going to be kind of like just
00:55:18 ◼ ► you know firing a hot dog cannon at the os and like there's a hot dog over there and there's one
00:55:26 ◼ ► over there and like i don't want that i want them to think about it all like this new this mark german's
00:55:32 ◼ ► report about the grammar checker and it's all that well you need to revisit your entire writing stack
00:55:37 ◼ ► and have the grammar checking and spell checking and all of that be in one interface with you know
00:55:43 ◼ ► and and be thoughtfully constructed a team needs to have built that whole thing instead of well we've
00:55:49 ◼ ► got this thing laying around that's been there for 15 years and now we're going to jam this other thing
00:55:53 ◼ ► over here like you can't do that you shouldn't that's not what the apple experience should be like
00:55:58 ◼ ► so really it's like how yeah how fearful are they or how concerted have they been now i you know what
00:56:12 ◼ ► however i will say and i know i've been talking about this about staff turnover in general at apple
00:56:18 ◼ ► but like never underestimate the power of having new people in charge and if like mike rockwell
00:56:23 ◼ ► and craig federighi who did not have as much control over this two years ago as they do now
00:56:33 ◼ ► they have the opportunity to say you know we're going to step up we know what happened that was
00:56:41 ◼ ► wrong and we're going to fix it and we're committed to fixing it and they have the credibility i would
00:56:45 ◼ ► think within the organization to tell the people working on this okay turn the page let's do this
00:56:50 ◼ ► right this time so i i have i have some optimism because there's new people in place along with some
00:56:58 ◼ ► do you think i mean our conversation so far has basically been all ai yeah that's what this year
00:57:10 ◼ ► is right like i i'm not really expecting much other big stuff yeah i think i i think the best way to
00:57:20 ◼ ► think of this is and the german report suggests this is imagine this being the proverbial snow leopard
00:57:28 ◼ ► year right this is a year where what they seem to be trying to do reportedly is look at performance
00:57:36 ◼ ► look at stability fix some bugs make some improve some nice quality of life improvements around the
00:57:44 ◼ ► and finally roll out like how they're going to use ai technologies in ways that fit with their platform
00:57:59 ◼ ► um i think wwdc is going to be a lot less interesting to you although i will point out again
00:58:06 ◼ ► snow leopard had like hundreds of features yeah big ones they don't talk about that like there will be
00:58:12 ◼ ► little bits like i'm fascinated to give you one example and it is ai related but like spotlight and
00:58:24 ◼ ► a proper rethink of how all of that kind of type in a box and find things works on your on your computer
00:58:34 ◼ ► could be really good it could also be really bad but it could be really good so we'll see i mean look
00:58:43 ◼ ► i don't think they're going to do anything but refine liquid glass on ios yes i hope that they
00:58:48 ◼ ► i hope that they do some cleanup on the mac right because the mac really just kind of needs to be
00:58:53 ◼ ► cleaned up the mac is a mess um but i i think you know liquid glass is still going to be there but i
00:59:01 ◼ ► think that they they are trying like everybody else yells and they're like i hate it and they're like
00:59:07 ◼ ► well we're not going back so a competent qualified designer and the designers are new too right
00:59:13 ◼ ► will say what makes you hate it what about it do you hate what about makes it harder for you
00:59:18 ◼ ► to do what you want to do and they take those and they internalize those and they figure out how to
00:59:22 ◼ ► make changes not to throw away liquid glass but to make changes to the design so that it it sands off
00:59:29 ◼ ► all of those rough edges so that things are they solve the problem right you're not you're not
00:59:34 ◼ ► the the the recommended solution which is don't do liquid glass that's not going to happen it's not
00:59:40 ◼ ► helpful but if they've listened to the reasons why people feel that way and they can make that better
00:59:46 ◼ ► so that it's a more functional design system you know that's what i would expect to see is that
00:59:52 ◼ ► when apple unveils kind of like big new initiatives usually you know it's like oh here's the thing and
01:00:01 ◼ ► we're going to use it and then maybe the next year developers get to use it like that's that's like a
01:00:07 ◼ ► pretty standard thing that they do classic do you think that if they have a big ai initiative that
01:00:15 ◼ ► they will take this approach or do you think there might be more developer involvement this year
01:00:20 ◼ ► because of kind of the quote-unquote delay of it all i think that exactly what you just said because
01:00:26 ◼ ► we've known and developers have known about the app intense strategy and i am kind of assuming that
01:00:33 ◼ ► that continues to be the strategy is app intense is basically the new version of scriptable apps on
01:00:41 ◼ ► the mac back in the apple script days app intense is i'll give you an example bb edit 16 just came out
01:00:47 ◼ ► yep and the old bb edit shortcut support was really not anything it's very apple scriptable but not very
01:00:54 ◼ ► shortcutsable but the new version of bb edit has a bunch of app intense in it and the the app intense
01:01:01 ◼ ► are functions of the program that just get offered to the system which means that siri and
01:01:08 ◼ ► shortcuts and anybody else can use process lines containing sort lines they don't even need to open
01:01:15 ◼ ► up a bb edit window in fact it if bb edit it's not open and you run a shortcut that is using one of those
01:01:20 ◼ ► app intense you don't even see bb edit run it it does launch hidden but you don't see it it just
01:01:26 ◼ ► uses the code in bb edit to hand off this job and bb edit does this great because bb edit in addition to
01:01:32 ◼ ► being a text editor is a great text utility hands it back to you and and then you move on um that's
01:01:39 ◼ ► that's the promise of app intense is that is that app developers are also kind of like bringing their
01:01:44 ◼ ► features into the system which gives the system more power it solves one of your problems that you
01:01:49 ◼ ► mentioned mike where you said what if we run up against shortcuts not being able to do something
01:01:53 ◼ ► well if it's smart enough to understand that you've got bb edit installed then it says oh i do know how to do
01:01:58 ◼ ► that let's use that and i'll use i can use that feature from bb edit or any other app that does this so
01:02:05 ◼ ► i think that's the answer is that is that because they were laying a lot of this groundwork for
01:02:09 ◼ ► developers i'm sure there will be some new areas but because they're laying all this groundwork for
01:02:13 ◼ ► developers and also because i think they're aware that there's a lot of scrutiny of them rolling out
01:02:18 ◼ ► features that are only privileging first-party apps in places like europe that they will be i think
01:02:24 ◼ ► it will be a more open for developers story than it is some years yeah because obviously we had the
01:02:30 ◼ ► if you say i have the app intense that nothing really happened with um you know like action
01:02:34 ◼ ► across apps and that kind of stuff but also the foundation models are a thing that have existed
01:02:40 ◼ ► and private cloud compute is a thing that exists i would like to see you know developers get access
01:02:47 ◼ ► to private cloud compute but more importantly significant updates to the foundation models so these are
01:02:53 ◼ ► things that can be run on device that developers can take advantage of to do interesting things in their
01:02:57 ◼ ► apps right that is that is true foundation models which which it sounds like are not going to be
01:03:03 ◼ ► based on google's models but these are the on-device models but we'll see what their story is and we'll see
01:03:07 ◼ ► what their story is with private cloud compute but it is true one of the things to follow up on is
01:03:12 ◼ ► you can do app you have access to apple's models in shortcuts but app developers don't have access to
01:03:20 ◼ ► apple's models apple's you know private cloud compute i think they have access to the on-device models but
01:03:25 ◼ ► not private cloud compute and probably what they need is a payment method right that they'll probably be
01:03:32 ◼ ► like an api charge for apps that want to use private cloud compute because that's a tangible resource
01:03:37 ◼ ► and if you want to use it and it's like it's there on every system which is not the case
01:03:43 ◼ ► like because the model with open ai and stuff like that is that i mean mostly it's you want to use that
01:03:49 ◼ ► feature you need to log in with your open ai account this would be like they do with weather kit
01:03:54 ◼ ► where yep if you want to use an apple model you know you build that into your subscription fee for
01:03:59 ◼ ► your app and you apple will send you a bill every quarter or whatever for your api usage
01:04:05 ◼ ► of all your users and you just have to build that into the economics of your app and they should do
01:04:10 ◼ ► that i hope they do that the only way i think they don't do that is if the future of private cloud
01:04:15 ◼ ► compute is in flux a little bit where they're like we don't really know if we want to let people have
01:04:20 ◼ ► that because is it going to stick around or is it really going to be kind of is it hosted only on
01:04:25 ◼ ► google's servers or is it on our servers too and what there's there's some lack of clarity there that
01:04:30 ◼ ► might be a problem but but i hope so because i mean private cloud compute actually is very helpful in
01:04:36 ◼ ► some of my shortcuts that i'm writing and for me it's free which is even better so yeah i hope developers
01:04:42 ◼ ► have access to it even if they have to pay some so we you know we're talking about 24 a lot obviously
01:04:49 ◼ ► and and trust do you think apple will do anything differently with either demos as part of the
01:04:59 ◼ ► presentation or demos afterwards because they know that everyone is going to be looking at them
01:05:07 ◼ ► and saying yeah but really though especially the media they will you know if apple show off new
01:05:13 ◼ ► features coming to ios 27 that are incredible whiz bang ai model features no one everyone's going to
01:05:21 ◼ ► say in their articles yes but do we really know yes i think they might change stuff i think they're
01:05:28 ◼ ► going to say this is you know they're probably saying their presentations this is actually running
01:05:33 ◼ ► yep and then i think in their briefings and stuff like that i think that they're going to give more
01:05:46 ◼ ► um i think they'll do some of that just to reassure people but i would not be surprised if
01:06:00 ◼ ► yeah that would think you know it would not be a surprise to me if if people leave their briefings
01:06:07 ◼ ► and they're like i did it they gave me a phone and i did it you know yeah to kind of really kind of
01:06:12 ◼ ► like hammer home you know don't do something that's going to break it but a guided kind of thing yes
01:06:17 ◼ ► in fact federico's going right yes so i would be shocked if federico isn't given the opportunity to
01:06:27 ◼ ► tell a generative shortcut builder to do something yes that would it would be surprising wouldn't it
01:06:36 ◼ ► if he did not get the ability to say it would be i mean it's possible that that's like oh you know but
01:06:41 ◼ ► they don't want to say oh that's not working yet if they promise that feature if that feature doesn't
01:06:46 ◼ ► exist then they won't show him that feature but if that feature exists i have a hard time imagining
01:06:51 ◼ ► that either he will be able to do it or they will have an sit with him and an ipad and do it while he
01:06:58 ◼ ► can watch it happening right i i feel like that that is they got to do more of that because they know
01:07:03 ◼ ► they do because they know they need to prove that this is stuff that's actually functional even if
01:07:08 ◼ ► it's in beta i also think that a lot of this stuff they're going to lean towards shipping it in the
01:07:13 ◼ ► first developer beta even if it's weird and buggy because i think they're going to lean more toward
01:07:18 ◼ ► it's okay if it's weird and buggy it's worse if it's not there yeah yeah let's just show we have
01:07:25 ◼ ► something yeah in the developer betas they will often like well it's not really there in in in
01:07:30 ◼ ► developer one but it's there in beta two or beta three and i i'm sure there will be some of that
01:07:34 ◼ ► but i think that they want to yes after 24 i think they're inclined to show people that it's real
01:07:40 ◼ ► do you think expect any hardware this year i don't no max i never i never do okay i don't think given
01:07:48 ◼ ► the state of affairs in the world i think i think it's unnecessary and no i mean they got enough to
01:07:54 ◼ ► talk about i don't think they need i mean it would be a nice distraction i suppose but like i don't
01:07:59 ◼ ► know i mean they could they could do some new macs and stuff but i guess wwdc if they want to make
01:08:04 ◼ ► developers happy and they have the ability they can announce the you know high-end mac studios and
01:08:10 ◼ ► stuff but it sounds to me like they have a hard time getting the chips so maybe they shouldn't
01:08:17 ◼ ► what do you think's gonna happen do you think they're gonna have any kind of torch passing one way
01:08:24 ◼ ► or another are they gonna acknowledge this is tim going to have a thing where it's like this is the
01:08:29 ◼ ► last one i think i don't think that i think tim and john turnus and craig federighi will come on stage
01:08:37 ◼ ► at apple park and before the video to say hi to the crowd assuming it's staged like it is it has been
01:08:52 ◼ ► it's possible tim will say something about this is you know i've been doing this for for all this time
01:08:59 ◼ ► and this is my last one but it's still going to be the same video regardless it's going to be
01:09:03 ◼ ► it's going to be this is tim we got a bunch of great stuff let's get into it and that they will make
01:09:09 ◼ ► they will make a point of having john turnus be involved somewhere yeah in that video yeah even
01:09:15 ◼ ► though he's you know the hardware guy he's also now the new ceo guy maybe they do it together they
01:09:20 ◼ ► do the intro together i could imagine them doing something together intro or outro or or whatever
01:09:27 ◼ ► kind of just be like hey everybody like just you know i don't know if it's important but show the
01:09:32 ◼ ► united front of it all right you know like we're all good i will say if if they could swing it in terms
01:09:38 ◼ ► of availability the best thing to do is announce mac studios and maybe mac minis using m5 because
01:09:44 ◼ ► that's a thing that john turnus could do yes and it would be a message to developers uh and they could
01:09:51 ◼ ► talk they boast about the ai performance on those systems i just don't know if they can ship them so
01:09:56 ◼ ► yeah we'll see i mean you know saying that thing for john john turnus can do anything now like they
01:10:01 ◼ ► don't need to do max to have turnus as a part of this he's going to be the ceo in three months
01:10:07 ◼ ► yeah yeah but i as ceo i don't think he wants to eat craig federighi's lunch right like craig needs
01:10:13 ◼ ► to do a bunch of software stuff no i mean like he he can appear in some portion of the keynote
01:10:19 ◼ ► without there needing to be hardware like he can show up at the beginning at the end or or whatever
01:10:25 ◼ ► i don't know i just don't know what that is maybe maybe but but an easy way to get him in
01:10:29 ◼ ► would be to announce some new hardware i just don't normally i would say it actually sounds
01:10:34 ◼ ► pretty good as a time to introduce since they aren't out yet to introduce the mac mini and the mac
01:10:39 ◼ ► studio uh or at the very least the mac studio at this because that's a developer product basically
01:10:46 ◼ ► um and it's got a good ai story but do they have them if they do then having john turnus be involved in
01:10:54 ◼ ► that way is easy that's an easy answer um but yeah i'm sure i'm sure we'll see him and and maybe
01:11:07 ◼ ► i would be really disappointed if tim does not acknowledge it that is his last one yeah i think that would be a shame
01:11:16 ◼ ► i i think it's more likely than not that he will yeah i think that'd be a real shame i think this is
01:11:22 ◼ ► my last wwdc as ceo it's you know such an honor to talk about this you know at the beginning or the
01:11:27 ◼ ► end but i think that'll be it it'll be a little bookmark a little tag something like that
01:11:32 ◼ ► there's a button on this are you eager excited interested like what is your overall kind of feeling
01:11:41 ◼ ► for wwdc do you have one because i'll say i'm excited i'm excited like i am every year i look
01:11:46 ◼ ► forward to this pick similarly for the for for you where you say like it sets your year i have that
01:11:53 ◼ ► feeling but mine comes from the like being generally enthusiastic i was like i am excited for what i am to
01:12:02 ◼ ► be excited about for the next three months like i like that about wwdc right it's like setting what
01:12:10 ◼ ► can be my tone sometimes it i am excited to be annoyed you know what i mean like i'm excited
01:12:17 ◼ ► about the fact that i will be angry about image playgrounds for the next three months right that
01:12:21 ◼ ► was 24 but then last year i was really excited about liquid glass i thought it looked great i thought it
01:12:27 ◼ ► was going to be really interesting it was really interesting and i'm i this time i am very excited about
01:12:38 ◼ ► sticky and kind of in-depth conversations that we will have between june and september of like
01:12:49 ◼ ► how good is this stuff what does it do is it worthwhile like these are the kinds of things that
01:12:55 ◼ ► that i'm eager about kind of going into wwdc yeah no i get it it gives us a lot to talk about and i we
01:13:02 ◼ ► really do prefer talking about the details of things that exist and not sort of imagining what might be
01:13:07 ◼ ► the strategy that leads to things that might exist so having some reality will be great but you know it's
01:13:14 ◼ ► it's the same story that i said before which is for me i approach every one of these as a
01:13:20 ◼ ► as a content challenge as a work challenge because it's been my job for so long i think about
01:13:27 ◼ ► you know here we go we're gonna go into the grind i'm gonna you know i'm gonna go down to the south bay
01:13:37 ◼ ► a bunch of logistics i'm gonna see people i got a bunch of briefings presumably i don't have my
01:13:43 ◼ ► calendar but i assume so uh we got to find a time to record upgrade um like i and then what happens
01:13:52 ◼ ► later in the week and then i have the added logistics of at the end of that week i'm going
01:13:57 ◼ ► to oregon for my son's college graduation so there's a lot going on and so i'm thinking a lot of it is about
01:14:06 ◼ ► just plans of you know where am i going what am i doing how do i get the work done how do we get
01:14:13 ◼ ► everything we need to do um and then and then after it's over it's definitely picking up the pieces of
01:14:19 ◼ ► like what does this all mean you know that week after i'm down there for a couple of days the rest of
01:14:24 ◼ ► the week wednesday and thursday it's a lot of watching videos because there's a lot to be gleaned
01:14:28 ◼ ► from those developer videos that get released that have offer way more details about what is going on than what
01:14:35 ◼ ► was said in any of the videos on stage so then you're and then you're like your brain is kind of
01:14:40 ◼ ► like processing everything because it's so it's overload in the day the day of and then for me i'll
01:14:48 ◼ ► get briefings and there'll be even more information overload from that and then there's the videos and
01:14:54 ◼ ► so for the rest of the summer for our one post uh post keynote episode the following week
01:15:01 ◼ ► you know you're starting to process what you've seen and then that is a process that lasts all over
01:15:07 ◼ ► the summer so yeah i'm looking forward to it because i like that whole thing but i think going into it
01:15:12 ◼ ► it's very hard for me to express anything other than the kind of like it's not even trepidation it's just
01:15:18 ◼ ► like prep it's it's like getting down to business i i i have tried to compartmentalize all of that
01:15:24 ◼ ► you know planning and anxiety and and all of that as you know i it's part of the job so i will i will
01:15:34 ◼ ► feel more enthusiasm when we're talking about it afterward yeah me too i think yeah as a footnote
01:15:40 ◼ ► for me too as well last year at wwdc i had just started working with crossford on widget smith and
01:15:47 ◼ ► pedometer this year i'm very involved now and so i have additional things that i will be looking for
01:15:56 ◼ ► as a quote-unquote developer as part of a development company that will be exciting and interesting to me
01:16:03 ◼ ► alongside of everything else so that i'm i'm pretty eager about like if a wwdc from that lens
01:16:11 ◼ ► as well of like there are things that i will care about will pay much more attention to than i would
01:16:16 ◼ ► have any other year yeah i think that's interesting you and steven having this other secret life
01:16:24 ◼ ► perspective about developing well you're developing perspective yes developing perspective but yeah i mean
01:16:31 ◼ ► i am excited for that too because there will be like i'm sure there'll be sessions that i will watch
01:16:37 ◼ ► that i otherwise wouldn't have cared about because there'll be something marketing related or you know
01:16:42 ◼ ► things they're doing for the app store and all that kind of stuff that will be of genuine interest to me
01:16:45 ◼ ► now that i wouldn't have really thought or given too much of a look at prior because it just wasn't my
01:16:51 ◼ ► world yeah and that that i think as long as we you know we disclaim where need be but like it gives
01:16:58 ◼ ► you a different perspective that you can bring to the show which is also kind of fun yeah yeah
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01:19:23 ◼ ► of relay it is time for some ask upgrade questions first one comes from holly who wants to know
01:19:32 ◼ ► this is kind of going back to conversations that you and steven were having uh last week about the
01:19:38 ◼ ► original sin of the the apps of like of apple in the app store what if apple were to split how it
01:19:45 ◼ ► handled app store apps my proposal would be that games continue with the firm 30 cut of all revenue and
01:19:51 ◼ ► a requirement to use the app store but all other apps get reduced to 10 and have the ability to be
01:19:57 ◼ ► listed externally after security review by apple this keeps 90 of apple's app store revenue still
01:20:03 ◼ ► lets them hold a firm position against epic this separates the iphone as a gaming platform from its
01:20:08 ◼ ► computing platform i mean this feels very much like the john gruber argument i've seen him make a
01:20:14 ◼ ► similar argument um i don't know i i think we're too far down the road now i think apple's saying but
01:20:20 ◼ ► wait we're actually just a games platform not only is the the group that's pushing this the most uh
01:20:26 ◼ ► the company that makes games but i think that i think it's too far gone i think i think the argument
01:20:32 ◼ ► is if it's unfair it's unfair regardless of it doesn't segmenting out one kind of app doesn't
01:20:40 ◼ ► change the fairness of it i think it's too late there was a time that this could have worked that time
01:20:47 ◼ ► has long since passed and i think if we if they had done it this way after they hit the magical phil
01:20:54 ◼ ► shillabillion the shillian uh never do that again uh after they hit that level i think if they would
01:21:01 ◼ ► have done something like this we would be having different kinds of conversations sure and i think
01:21:07 ◼ ► it would not have affected apple to a significant i think even if they did this now it would not
01:21:12 ◼ ► affect them to a significant degree i think the vast majority of money the app store brings in is
01:21:18 ◼ ► game related revenue it must be just because of the way that games monetize they monetize completely
01:21:24 ◼ ► differently to other types of apps and you know what for some reason people pay that money where they
01:21:29 ◼ ► don't pay it for regular apps they will pay coins and gems and all that kind of stuff so like you know
01:21:36 ◼ ► this this is a model that would probably have worked but they needed to make that decision like 10 years
01:21:42 ◼ ► ago they didn't yeah yeah i agree prem writes in and says given how well max are doing as machines to
01:21:50 ◼ ► run ai agents like claude code codex and such do you think apple may release any new features to make
01:21:57 ◼ ► them run better in the next version of mac os i'll broaden this question out in case it's a little
01:22:02 ◼ ► too specific jason which is can you imagine apple providing mac specific features to help them be
01:22:09 ◼ ► better for coding agents in some way or you know these like agents or computer use agents do you think
01:22:15 ◼ ► apple may in like focus on the mac as the ai platform honestly the mac is so successful at
01:22:22 ◼ ► this already i i would imagine that if if anthropic or open ai is coming to apple and saying look we have
01:22:28 ◼ ► a problem where our popular coding agents have this one thing that they can't do because the there's an
01:22:33 ◼ ► os limitation that that apple would probably be like let's fix that right but i'm not sure that's a
01:22:39 ◼ ► feature for the end user because this has been successful i would say what i want to look for
01:22:44 ◼ ► here is apple's story about this and i know i mentioned this on a podcast i'm not sure if it was
01:22:50 ◼ ► this one or not but like there was a um a friend of mine who was observing who's vibe coding apps and
01:22:58 ◼ ► observing that xcode is completely inscrutable and uh this was an actual friend of mine not me although i
01:23:04 ◼ ► will say i tried to vibe code a mac app last week in an afternoon and it's stunningly was it worked
01:23:12 ◼ ► but x i mean most of my questions to to claude were how to use xcode because xcode is impenetrable
01:23:23 ◼ ► and so i think obviously number one is apple should continue and their developer team has been doing
01:23:29 ◼ ► this i've gotten some really good briefings from the developer team at wwdc over the years
01:23:33 ◼ ► and outside of it about what they're doing with coding stuff like they want xcode to be super
01:23:40 ◼ ► integrated with whatever models you want to use and they're going to continue that i think they're
01:23:45 ◼ ► going to be very aggressive on that front but i think they need an easy mode for xcode because
01:23:53 ◼ ► it is so powerful to use these agents to build mac apps and maybe even ios apps in xcode right
01:24:02 ◼ ► um but xcode is hard yeah i'm a i'm a long time mac user friends and i look at xcode and i have
01:24:11 ◼ ► no idea what i'm even looking at and i have i have had developer friends walk me through where you have
01:24:16 ◼ ► to click and like it doesn't make any sense there's no logic to this it is so weird where you do things in
01:24:22 ◼ ► xcode and so that's what i think like the number one you know what like i bet that is if if if you
01:24:28 ◼ ► ask to develop that open logic right you said like logic pro and be like you use this edit podcast it's
01:24:35 ◼ ► like i don't know what to do man and that's why garage band exists and i'm not i'm not saying they
01:24:39 ◼ ► need to create you know uh a playgrounds version of the app although they could do that but i'm saying
01:24:44 ◼ ► what if you built a mode into xcode or okay or you build a separate app but it needs to be able to do
01:24:53 ◼ ► everything xcode can do which is why you probably just need to build a mode into xcode that is more
01:24:59 ◼ ► because the bar the bar has lowered on who can use xcode now yeah who can develop apps now and who
01:25:06 ◼ ► wants to use xcode that has really broadened because now there are people that want to build
01:25:13 ◼ ► apps for themselves and they want them to be iphone apps and they have to use xcode for that at some
01:25:18 ◼ ► point yes and so they're now complicated you know for for lack of a better term essentially a vibe code
01:25:24 ◼ ► mode of xcode right it's like just make this simple or build it so that the tool that i'm already using
01:25:30 ◼ ► can just talk to xcode and do what needs to be done in the background right maybe maybe it's a
01:25:35 ◼ ► helper app that is like the super friendly maybe it's a mode in xcode i don't know but i feel like
01:25:39 ◼ ► that's the thing they need to lead into if there's anything they need anything they can do to make
01:25:42 ◼ ► kind of agentic stuff on the mac work better then great if they want to build some of that themselves
01:25:48 ◼ ► then great but um i think that the mac's already being been seen as a pretty good platform for all of
01:25:55 ◼ ► that kind of stuff but that's the one that that has come up to me a few times is that apple's
01:25:59 ◼ ► developer tools are incredibly opaque and a lot of people are out there trying to create software
01:26:05 ◼ ► for for apple's platforms using these tools and the and it ends up being that the hardest part is
01:26:13 ◼ ► just dealing with xcode so maybe there's something there that could be addressed amarr wrote in and
01:26:18 ◼ ► this is the person who asked the technical snail talk question as well uh they see they had an ask
01:26:23 ◼ ► upgrade already i couldn't put them in twice do you think the random nature of when apple releases a
01:26:27 ◼ ► new m series chip and an and an even more random nature of which device gets it first and which
01:26:33 ◼ ► device doesn't even get it at all is a problem with apple having complete control i would have hoped for
01:26:39 ◼ ► a more predictable release cadence instead you get an m3 ultra when an m4 has been out for half a year
01:26:45 ◼ ► and you get an m5 on an ipad when even the mac studio doesn't have it okay i don't think it's a
01:26:50 ◼ ► problem and i don't think that this is accurate sorry um i do think that apple's release cadence
01:26:56 ◼ ► is pretty predictable they do they do one and then two and then three and then four and then five
01:27:01 ◼ ► the m3 ultra is a weird use case but i mean what i would say is nobody almost nobody cares
01:27:07 ◼ ► it's an incredibly weird thing that happened it may happen again yeah but it's the it's the exception
01:27:13 ◼ ► that proves the rule because saying m5 on an ipad when even the mac studio doesn't have it i mean
01:27:22 ◼ ► i i feel sometimes like every and i understand the the motivation here which is everybody wants
01:27:28 ◼ ► everything really neat and clear but the fact is apple can't literally ship every chip and every
01:27:34 ◼ ► computer that uses that chip at once they can't so they have to pick and sometimes it's about
01:27:39 ◼ ► availability of the chips or availability of the hardware designs but like in general when you're
01:27:45 ◼ ► in the m5 era everything that's going to ship new is going to have an m5 in it if if you know it's at
01:27:50 ◼ ► the level that it uses that chip um they also roll down like the you know ipad air with an m4 in it
01:27:57 ◼ ► because it used to have an m3 it's last year's chip because it's i just i don't think it's that big
01:28:01 ◼ ► a deal the new stuff all gets it eventually they choose where it comes first sometimes that ipad comes
01:28:07 ◼ ► first sometimes a mac comes first you got the macbook pro at m5 but no macbook pro high-end at m5
01:28:16 ◼ ► because that high-end m5 chip wasn't out yet and then it came out and they all updated i think if
01:28:21 ◼ ► you view it as a wave of products and chips that get released i think it actually is pretty predictable
01:28:28 ◼ ► and at a pretty understandable cadence they seem to really want it to be kind of every year it's not
01:28:34 ◼ ► always quite that but they're kind of viewing it as a model year thing because it's going along with
01:28:39 ◼ ► their a series development and sometimes maybe it's more like 18 months but i think it's perfectly
01:28:44 ◼ ► reasonable the m3 ultra is a weird outlier it is an outlier on the flow chart it's also an outlier
01:28:52 ◼ ► as a chip it's just very weird and but i i think it's the exception that proves the rule that they're
01:28:58 ◼ ► actually pretty um straightforward about how they do this and if you're sweating the details of well
01:29:04 ◼ ► but why is it why is it one and not the other and why are mac studio and mac mini still at m4 even
01:29:09 ◼ ► though there's an m5 out now i think you're sweating unnecessarily and i think most people don't care
01:29:15 ◼ ► and also most importantly it's not possible they they literally can't make all the chips make all the
01:29:22 ◼ ► computers and then ship them at once it just takes and that's why anytime apple tries to get their
01:29:28 ◼ ► product house in order it it takes time and it's never quite perfect because yeah one wave crests and
01:29:37 ◼ ► ends and then the new wave comes in and it's always going to be a little bit messy yeah i think
01:29:43 ◼ ► when the intel to apple turns when like the intel to apple silicon transition happened i think that
01:29:50 ◼ ► there were people that were hoping it would be very orderly and like in a way that made sense to them
01:29:58 ◼ ► right if like okay so one everything gets it and then we go to m2 and everything gets it but it just
01:30:04 ◼ ► as you said it just doesn't there are many reasons why it doesn't work like that and because all of the
01:30:12 ◼ ► computers aren't ready or they don't feel it's necessary right like we don't need to revise
01:30:18 ◼ ► the imac with every chip generation it's just not necessary right and so like there are things that
01:30:26 ◼ ► don't fit a spreadsheet super clearly but that's just kind of the way that it goes but i do i can see
01:30:34 ◼ ► that there were people that hoped that apple being in full control of its silicon would have given
01:30:41 ◼ ► them that reality but it's just there are many reasons not just because it's intel of why that
01:30:47 ◼ ► was the case yes how soon we forget that this is so much more i'm going to just come back to these
01:30:52 ◼ ► phrases a predictable release cadence than it was when you had max using intel chips yes so much more
01:30:59 ◼ ► predictable an anonymous person wrote and said after listening to upgrade today i went out for an
01:31:05 ◼ ► evening walk several miles in i heard the faint sound of upgrade playing again the cause of the
01:31:10 ◼ ► noise was revealed when a tandem bicycle zoomed past loudly broadcasting the part snow talk where jason
01:31:16 ◼ ► discussed mac se hard drive disposal does jason ever play podcasts over a speaker while walking or biking or
01:31:23 ◼ ► is he strictly a headphones man what is this question did this happen i don't think this happened i i don't
01:31:29 ◼ ► know man i i don't know why you would like to create a weird story that then leads to their
01:31:36 ◼ ► question i don't know why you'd write this if it didn't happen my favorite thing is that this person
01:31:41 ◼ ► felt that they needed to ask a question as well to get this read out like there was no question needed
01:31:48 ◼ ► why is it a tandem bicycle you see the fact that it's a tandem makes me believe this story is real
01:31:55 ◼ ► because i don't think that's how they get you that that's how they get you they put an unbelievable
01:32:01 ◼ ► detail in there to believe it you don't need it to be a tandem for me dear upgrade listener who listens
01:32:07 ◼ ► to upgrade on a speaker on a tandem bicycle please write in yes if who are you okay now look i don't
01:32:15 ◼ ► know how we could prove this but if you did that i know you listen every week right like if you listened
01:32:24 ◼ ► out loud on a tandem bicycle to the show you are listening to this show all the way to the end like
01:32:32 ◼ ► you are in it to win it we need proof of this i don't know how if you could take a picture of a tandem
01:32:42 ◼ ► bike with the show i work in front of it i'll believe it that's enough who has tandem bikes i i
01:32:48 ◼ ► yeah i want to know more about this yeah my answer is now now that we've done that i'm going to insult
01:32:53 ◼ ► the person that we just asked to help us because i'm going to say no of course i don't play podcasts
01:32:57 ◼ ► over a speaker when i'm out in public i use headphones but i will say for safety reasons you
01:33:05 ◼ ► shouldn't cover your ears with headphones when you're riding a bicycle i guess you could use those
01:33:09 ◼ ► like bone conduction i guess they're good for that because then your ears aren't covered i will um when
01:33:15 ◼ ► i'm on roads with my bike i have one headphone in and the other one not although honestly with
01:33:20 ◼ ► transparency mode and i in in airpods it doesn't really matter i i don't hear any better with them
01:33:25 ◼ ► out of my ears but um but yes for safety reasons don't do that so what i will say though yes
01:33:32 ◼ ► maybe the one scenario on a bike where you would listen to something out loud is a tandem because
01:33:38 ◼ ► you are sharing the experience of another person yeah get yourself a bike companion who wants to
01:33:44 ◼ ► listen to upgrade with you while you bike places incredible right like i just i need to know more
01:33:49 ◼ ► about this so please please explain please please explain but if we're again as another it's another
01:33:55 ◼ ► angle to this this is not the tandem angle which is if this is true can you imagine being this person
01:34:04 ◼ ► that you've just listened to the podcast and you're out for a walk and a tandem bike goes by also
01:34:09 ◼ ► listening to the show now that's weird right that is weird that's really weird i would be really
01:34:15 ◼ ► like unsettled if that happened to me uh fantastic if you would like to send in a question of your own
01:34:23 ◼ ► or you've got any follow-up or feedback for the show please go to upgradefeedback.com i would like
01:34:28 ◼ ► to thank our members as well as upgrade plus uh go to getupgradeplus.com you get a longer ad free
01:34:34 ◼ ► show every week on this edition we're going to share some information about something that we're working
01:34:40 ◼ ► on that we're very excited about that everyone's going to know about next week yes or maybe in the
01:34:46 ◼ ► coming days but upgradeians are going to hear about it from our mouths uh upgrade plusians will hear
01:34:52 ◼ ► about it from our mouths that's right that's not what they're called but okay yes what would they be
01:34:56 ◼ ► called then i don't know subscribe to upgrade plus yes upgradians plus upgradians plus upgradians plus
01:35:02 ◼ ► upgradians plus maybe it's just the people who listen to that part of the show on their tandem bicycle
01:35:06 ◼ ► you can find us on youtube if you would like to watch us uh by going to the upgrade podcast uh
01:35:12 ◼ ► on youtube or searching for you know you'll see that we're wearing matching shirts today
01:35:15 ◼ ► two two person podcasts are kind of like the tandem bicycle of the ears or the mind or something yes
01:35:21 ◼ ► tandem bicycle of the mind we are we are a tandem bicycle of the mind podcast form yeah of the mind
01:35:27 ◼ ► i feel like we have to keep getting the of the mind tandem bicycle of the mind that is this podcast
01:35:32 ◼ ► uh i would like to thank our sponsors for this week's episode that's mercury weather fit bod
01:35:37 ◼ ► and our friends over at century as well uh but most of all thank you for listening we'll be back next