ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I wanted to actually commend something that I think you might find surprising.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Oh, this is surprising already.

00:00:07 ◼   ► I genuinely don't know where you're going with this, and I'm scared.

00:00:10 ◼   ► Something has been working every single time for me that used to never work.

00:00:16 ◼   ► The most surprising thing is the product it involves, the HomePod.

00:00:21 ◼   ► I have no explanation for this, but for whatever reason, in the last maybe few weeks, maybe month,

00:00:29 ◼   ► when I switch the output of my music app on my phone from the phone to a HomePod,

00:00:36 ◼   ► it now works every time, and it works quickly.

00:00:42 ◼   ► And then when I'm done in the shower or whatever, and I switch the speaker back to my phone,

00:00:47 ◼   ► it also switches immediately and perfectly.

00:00:52 ◼   ► The music does not lose its place, and it works just as well with all of my iTunes-matched,

00:00:58 ◼   ► self-uploaded jam band concerts as it does with catalog tracks from Apple Music.

00:01:03 ◼   ► This has blown me away.

00:01:06 ◼   ► So I wanted to, I spent so much time complaining about how badly the HomePod worked in specifically

00:01:13 ◼   ► this way over so many years that I wanted to actually finally commend.

00:01:17 ◼   ► I don't know why it suddenly works.

00:01:19 ◼   ► I don't remember seeing any release notes to this effect, but recently it started working,

00:01:25 ◼   ► and now it works amazingly.

00:01:26 ◼   ► So whoever at Apple did that, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart.

00:01:32 ◼   ► I will now think about you every time I take a shower.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Hot.

00:01:35 ◼   ► You're very brave to say this on the program, because it could be that nothing has changed,

00:01:40 ◼   ► and you just got an extraordinary lucky, and guess what?

00:01:42 ◼   ► Your luck just ran out.

00:01:43 ◼   ► You jinxed it.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Believe me, something changed, because I assure you, this never worked before.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Like, it would time out.

00:01:53 ◼   ► It would drop.

00:01:53 ◼   ► It would error out.

00:01:54 ◼   ► It would continue on the HomePod, but then the phone would lose it, and so there was no

00:01:59 ◼   ► way to switch back, and the phone would think it was still playing, or it was playing something

00:02:02 ◼   ► else.

00:02:02 ◼   ► It was a disaster for so many years, but for some reason now, it works exactly the way

00:02:08 ◼   ► it was always supposed to work, and it's so much nicer now.

00:02:12 ◼   ► I wish I could say the same about my Sonos Roam.

00:02:15 ◼   ► I have a Sonos Roam 2 now, because my one was just so flaky that I couldn't deal with it,

00:02:19 ◼   ► so I bought a second one.

00:02:20 ◼   ► That's my shower speaker, by the way.

00:02:21 ◼   ► That's why I'm thinking of it.

00:02:22 ◼   ► And boy, does it not work the way it's supposed to.

00:02:27 ◼   ► Half the time, the Sonos doesn't even show up as an airplay choice of places to play to,

00:02:33 ◼   ► which just boggles my mind.

00:02:35 ◼   ► I'm like, what is going wrong there?

00:02:36 ◼   ► That it's just, it's not visible at all?

00:02:38 ◼   ► And so I just, luckily, the Sonos Roam 2 has a Bluetooth mode, so I just switch the hardware

00:02:42 ◼   ► into Bluetooth mode and play to it as a Bluetooth speaker, but yeesh.

00:02:46 ◼   ► And I know you guys love Sonos, and I've never had any of the bigger Sonos ones, but the

00:02:49 ◼   ► itty-bitty little tiny Sonos Roam, it's got the short end of the stick somewhere, and just

00:02:54 ◼   ► had problems since day one.

00:02:55 ◼   ► I love it.

00:02:56 ◼   ► I love the form factor.

00:02:57 ◼   ► I love that it's waterproof.

00:02:58 ◼   ► It is my, continues to be my shower podcast listening speaker.

00:03:02 ◼   ► I love everything about it, except the five minutes I have to spend before each shower getting

00:03:05 ◼   ► it to work.

00:03:06 ◼   ► You know, there is some Sonos news recently.

00:03:09 ◼   ► Well, first of all, I have a Roam 1 and a Move 1, and although I will concede that I almost

00:03:15 ◼   ► never airplay to either of them, on the rare occasions that I do, I don't typically have

00:03:20 ◼   ► this problem, and it seems to me that there are two camps when it comes to Sonos and

00:03:24 ◼   ► AirPlay, and much like there are two camps with CEC.

00:03:27 ◼   ► You're either a unicorn, which it appears I am for both, as I, you know, knock furiously

00:03:32 ◼   ► on wood, or you can't use either.

00:03:34 ◼   ► And that seems to be John's predicament.

00:03:36 ◼   ► So, I'm not sure what to say about that.

00:03:38 ◼   ► However, I will say there's been actually a couple of developments in the Sonos ecosystem,

00:03:42 ◼   ► particularly if you are a Ubiquiti user.

00:03:45 ◼   ► There was a version of Ubiquiti Network, which is like the firmware for, you know, their networking

00:03:52 ◼   ► devices.

00:03:52 ◼   ► And the release video, which I will probably forget to put in the show notes, and I apologize,

00:03:56 ◼   ► but the release video specifically said something along the lines of, for difficult IoT devices,

00:04:04 ◼   ► and they have a video of, like, them using the user interface for the Ubiquiti stuff, and

00:04:09 ◼   ► they specifically zoom in on, like, a Sonos device, as they're saying, for difficult IoT devices.

00:04:15 ◼   ► They have some stuff with, what is it, STP, I believe, or Spanning Tree Protocol?

00:04:20 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right, STP, where that has never cooperated well with Ubiquiti.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Like, Sonos apparently has a very old and slightly custom version of Spanning Tree Protocol, which

00:04:29 ◼   ► my limited understanding means it's how they figure out, like, what the topology of the network

00:04:33 ◼   ► is, or something like that.

00:04:34 ◼   ► I probably have that wrong.

00:04:35 ◼   ► It doesn't matter.

00:04:36 ◼   ► And so, there's been some affordances in Ubiquiti stuff as of late that will let you

00:04:41 ◼   ► turn that on, and supposedly it works better with Sonos stuff.

00:04:45 ◼   ► I tried that with my Arc Ultra and tried plugging it into Ethernet, which previously, Ubiquiti

00:04:49 ◼   ► was like, oh my god, what are you doing?

00:04:52 ◼   ► So, I tried plugging my Sonos, or my Arc Ultra into the Ethernet, and it was, it wasn't, the

00:05:00 ◼   ► Ubiquiti stuff wasn't angry, actively angry about it, but it just wasn't working well.

00:05:05 ◼   ► And that was frustrating, so I took it and put it back on Wi-Fi.

00:05:08 ◼   ► However, this week, there's a new Sonos app update, wherein you can enable or disable Sonos.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Now, I don't know if Marco or John, for that matter, if you're familiar with SonosNet.

00:05:19 ◼   ► Was this like their, like, custom Wi-Fi, like, secondary network they would run on?

00:05:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:24 ◼   ► So, in the defense of Sonos, way back when, when they were brand new, Wi-Fi was terrible

00:05:29 ◼   ► in everyone's house.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Even people with good Wi-Fi effectively had terrible Wi-Fi, because the technology was just

00:05:34 ◼   ► garbage.

00:05:35 ◼   ► And so, what they would do is, they would set up their own, not ad hoc, but, I guess,

00:05:39 ◼   ► semi-ad hoc, or their own, like, peer-to-peer Wi-Fi network that was mostly invisible to anything

00:05:43 ◼   ► but a Sonos device, and that's how they would often communicate amongst themselves.

00:05:48 ◼   ► And that was a brilliant idea 10 years ago, whenever Sonos was new, but...

00:05:53 ◼   ► More than that.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Sonos is much older than you think.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Okay, there you go.

00:05:56 ◼   ► So, 15, 20 years ago, whatever it's been.

00:05:59 ◼   ► So, it was a genuinely brilliant idea then, maybe not so great now, and it causes all sorts

00:06:04 ◼   ► of problems, among other things, with Spanning Tree Protocol, and so, what they have announced

00:06:09 ◼   ► this week is that they will, they have added a switch in the Sonos app where you can turn

00:06:17 ◼   ► off SonosNet for your entire system, and they actually have some, like, knowledge-based documents

00:06:22 ◼   ► or whatever they call their, you know, pulp docs, and they talk about, when should you use

00:06:27 ◼   ► a wireless setup, when should you use a wired setup, what if you have, like, a kind of in-the-middle

00:06:31 ◼   ► situation, which is what I was trying to do.

00:06:33 ◼   ► So, I will link the Knowledge Base article in the show notes, but I have yet to experiment

00:06:39 ◼   ► with this.

00:06:39 ◼   ► I've had an incredibly busy week, one of the busiest weeks I've had in a long time, and so

00:06:42 ◼   ► I haven't messed with this, but I am curious to see if this works at all, because when I

00:06:48 ◼   ► had my Eero system, which I mostly am kind of ambivalent about, the Sonos stuff actually

00:06:53 ◼   ► worked great, wired, wireless, didn't matter.

00:06:55 ◼   ► When I switched to Ubiquity, everything about my networking life got better, except Sonos

00:06:59 ◼   ► stuff, and so I'm waiting for, like, the magic combination to get Sonos stuff to work better

00:07:04 ◼   ► with Ubiquity, and hopefully this is it.

00:07:06 ◼   ► I'll have to follow back up at some point when I can mess with it.

00:07:08 ◼   ► All right, let's do some follow-up.

00:07:13 ◼   ► First of all, I would like to bring us into Formula One corner, where I was finally able to

00:07:21 ◼   ► watch a live broadcast of Formula One on Apple TV.

00:07:23 ◼   ► If you recall, last time we talked about this, I had said that I'd watched a replay or, you

00:07:28 ◼   ► know, a rerun of a race a day or two later, maybe even later that day, and none of the

00:07:34 ◼   ► fancy-schmancy affordances that you can get from F1 TV, you know, F1's bespoke app and

00:07:40 ◼   ► viewing system, none of those affordances seemed to work on replays on Apple TV, and I was very

00:07:44 ◼   ► excited to finally, at some point, be able to watch a race live.

00:07:48 ◼   ► So you can see, like, the multi-view and all that junk, and I finally watched the Montreal

00:07:53 ◼   ► Grand Prix, which was very good and very weird, and I was able to try all this stuff live,

00:07:57 ◼   ► and I will make this very brief, because I know neither of you care at all, and most of

00:08:00 ◼   ► us, most of the listeners probably don't care too much.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Correct.

00:08:03 ◼   ► But suffice to say, I did really like their feature that they had talked about way back

00:08:10 ◼   ► when this was all announced, where you can get the top three drivers.

00:08:12 ◼   ► So imagine on your television, there's a large, like, left of center, but effectively sort of

00:08:19 ◼   ► kind of centered view of the live broadcast of the race, where it's changing cameras all

00:08:23 ◼   ► the time.

00:08:23 ◼   ► And then on the right-hand side, you get three picture-in-picture sort of situations.

00:08:28 ◼   ► I mean, well, I shouldn't say picture-in-picture.

00:08:29 ◼   ► They're not overlaid on the broadcast, but you know what I'm saying, it's like they're

00:08:32 ◼   ► tiled, and so there's three top-to-bottom, and that's the top three drivers, and as the

00:08:36 ◼   ► top three drivers change, it will change the three that are shown on the side, which I thought

00:08:40 ◼   ► was really cool.

00:08:41 ◼   ► I thought that worked really well.

00:08:42 ◼   ► They also had multi-view in the spirit of F1 TV.

00:08:47 ◼   ► However, in the interest, I think, of being simpler, in F1 TV, what you do is you swipe

00:08:53 ◼   ► on the Apple TV anyway, you swipe from right to left on your remote, and you get a list

00:08:59 ◼   ► of all the different views you can have, the telemetry, the lap, the way they are in the

00:09:04 ◼   ► course, like, different tire situations, and all of the onboard videos of all the 22 drivers.

00:09:10 ◼   ► And you can just add and remove them willy-nilly.

00:09:12 ◼   ► Well, the way Apple TV does it is to start, you just select a team.

00:09:17 ◼   ► So you select a pair of drivers.

00:09:19 ◼   ► Once you do that, you can swap out and say, like, have one McLaren driver and one Mercedes

00:09:23 ◼   ► driver, but the way you activate multi-view is you basically select a pair of drivers,

00:09:28 ◼   ► which isn't bad, but was very surprising to me.

00:09:31 ◼   ► However, and John, I know you probably are cheating, which I would be too if I were in your

00:09:36 ◼   ► shoes, because you're looking at our internal show notes, but there was one critical issue

00:09:41 ◼   ► with multi-view.

00:09:41 ◼   ► And John, could you guess what would make me upset or cheat and tell me what made me

00:09:47 ◼   ► upset about the multi-view as I was watching this race?

00:09:50 ◼   ► I'm kind of surprised that this would be upsetting to you, and I'd love for you to explain to

00:09:54 ◼   ► me why.

00:09:54 ◼   ► It would be upsetting to me, for sure, but why you?

00:09:56 ◼   ► So the issue is, they have an affordance to let you know you need to swipe down in order

00:10:02 ◼   ► to get to other multi-view settings, right?

00:10:05 ◼   ► That affordance is a chevron, a down-looking chevron, which is fine, no issues there, except

00:10:12 ◼   ► it never leaves your screen.

00:10:14 ◼   ► And I have John Syracuse's head floating above my head saying, you know, you're going to have

00:10:21 ◼   ► that burnt in after a while.

00:10:22 ◼   ► You shouldn't do that.

00:10:23 ◼   ► And so I'm looking at my OLED TV.

00:10:26 ◼   ► I mean, I know in the span of an hour or two, it's not going to be enough, but I feel like

00:10:30 ◼   ► I'm cringing, I'm dying inside, because there's this freaking down chevron that's just sitting

00:10:36 ◼   ► stationary on the screen.

00:10:38 ◼   ► And my LG OLED is from 2019, I believe, and I've noticed that when I mute it, it has, you

00:10:44 ◼   ► know, a little mute icon that, you know what it does?

00:10:46 ◼   ► It dances up and down the right-hand side of the screen so you don't get burning.

00:10:50 ◼   ► Or if you do, it takes freaking forever, because it's always, you know, it sits at one, like,

00:10:54 ◼   ► Y coordinate for, I don't know, 10 seconds and swaps to a different Y coordinate for

00:10:57 ◼   ► 10 seconds.

00:10:58 ◼   ► This freaking chevron, as far as I could tell, just sits there the entire time, and it made

00:11:02 ◼   ► me so upset.

00:11:03 ◼   ► And so, all in all, this is, I guess, one and a half thumbs up from me.

00:11:08 ◼   ► It is very good.

00:11:09 ◼   ► I still prefer F1 TV, which, again, you get for free.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Well, you get as part of, you know, your Apple TV plus one, whatever situation.

00:11:17 ◼   ► You can link your F1 TV app, or your F1 TV account with your Apple TV account, and that's

00:11:22 ◼   ► how I will probably watch races from now on, or as I have in the past.

00:11:28 ◼   ► But this is worth checking out if you're an American F1 fan.

00:11:30 ◼   ► It was pretty good all in all.

00:11:32 ◼   ► All right, let's talk about reminders.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Matthew Cave writes, why set an alarm-type reminder?

00:11:37 ◼   ► Well, it's because it allows you to set an alarm more than 24 hours in advance.

00:11:41 ◼   ► In my job, I often have deliverables for other countries, leading to tasks that must happen

00:11:45 ◼   ► in the middle of the night.

00:11:46 ◼   ► Previously, I had to set reminders for the night before that told me nothing other than

00:11:51 ◼   ► set an alarm for this time.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Now, I can set it and forget it many days in advance.

00:11:55 ◼   ► Not everyone has this use case or anything similar, but it's extremely useful for me.

00:11:58 ◼   ► This is completely fair, but what's funny to me is that to my ears, Apple, or excuse me,

00:12:02 ◼   ► Matthew is describing the iOS app, or they're on several platforms, do DUE, which is perfect

00:12:09 ◼   ► for this use case.

00:12:10 ◼   ► But I get it.

00:12:11 ◼   ► If that's not for you, that's totally fair.

00:12:13 ◼   ► Well, but if you want it, I don't, I'm sorry.

00:12:15 ◼   ► I don't know if actually, if DUE supports this feature, for a long time, third-party

00:12:18 ◼   ► apps could not have the same abilities as the built-in alarm app in terms of overriding

00:12:24 ◼   ► the silent switch and doing a disturb and things like that.

00:12:27 ◼   ► There is now like an API or an entitlement to do that, but most apps don't do it.

00:12:31 ◼   ► But that is now available to third parties as of, I think, maybe three-ish years ago.

00:12:35 ◼   ► But this is a perfect example of why I never thought of this, because, yeah, if you want

00:12:42 ◼   ► the alarm behavior from the alarm app, it has to be just at the next instance of that time.

00:12:47 ◼   ► So if it is more than 24 hours at a time, can't do it.

00:12:50 ◼   ► So that's a good reason.

00:12:53 ◼   ► All right, so we also talked, I think it was last week, about how you were trying to use

00:12:57 ◼   ► SF symbols in Overcast in the context of a web view, and you were really struggling with

00:13:02 ◼   ► that.

00:13:03 ◼   ► And I don't think any of the three of us were particularly sure why that was such a struggle.

00:13:06 ◼   ► But a friend of the show, Clarko, wrote in and said, the reason you can't use bare text

00:13:10 ◼   ► SF symbols in WebKit is because they're not actually in the system font.

00:13:14 ◼   ► On macOS, you can use them in text if and only if you have the separate SF Pro font installed

00:13:19 ◼   ► from, I guess, the Apple developer site.

00:13:21 ◼   ► And that's nearly impossible to do on iOS.

00:13:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I had no idea.

00:13:25 ◼   ► And this was part of, as I was having AI kind of tell me, are there possible ways to get

00:13:32 ◼   ► the vector data so I could render an SVG into the web view for an SF symbol?

00:13:37 ◼   ► And there were a few different approaches that were suggested to me or generated for me, most

00:13:43 ◼   ► of which did not work, and some of which involve, like, trying to use the system font and, like,

00:13:47 ◼   ► oh, yeah, that doesn't actually work.

00:13:48 ◼   ► Or trying to, like, you know, render it, like, get a list of every code point in the San Francisco,

00:13:54 ◼   ► you know, in the system font, and for some reason they don't appear in the list.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Well, here's why.

00:13:58 ◼   ► And then sometimes there's, like, oh, well, you can, if you can figure out the private code

00:14:02 ◼   ► point for each one, like, so it seems like there are possibly workarounds, but they're

00:14:08 ◼   ► terrible.

00:14:09 ◼   ► And the real workaround, which I ended up fully implementing, and it is currently shipped

00:14:14 ◼   ► in the Overcast beta, is just to, like, have a web resource handler that runs locally in

00:14:19 ◼   ► your app that, like, you call a special URL from the markup, and it generates a ping image

00:14:25 ◼   ► that's rendered from, like, a Swift UI renderer of the SF symbol, and it just serves it into the

00:14:30 ◼   ► web view.

00:14:31 ◼   ► So that's what I'm doing now.

00:14:32 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:14:33 ◼   ► And it's not as, like, conceptually pure as putting a nice vector in there, but it

00:14:38 ◼   ► works just fine.

00:14:38 ◼   ► All right.

00:14:40 ◼   ► Vitor writes with regard to SVG, and I don't remember what the context was on this.

00:14:45 ◼   ► Was this?

00:14:45 ◼   ► It was in the SF symbols discussion.

00:14:47 ◼   ► We were talking about, like, you know, could SVG fully encompass everything that SF symbols

00:14:52 ◼   ► can do?

00:14:52 ◼   ► Because Apple has extended SF symbols to have multiple colors and animation and stuff like

00:14:56 ◼   ► that.

00:14:56 ◼   ► And it was the question, can SVG do animation?

00:14:58 ◼   ► And Marcus said, oh, yeah, I can totally do animation.

00:15:00 ◼   ► Well, here's some more on that.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Right, so Vitor writes, yes, SVG can do animation, and way more.

00:15:05 ◼   ► Sarah Drassner has a fantastic talk on that, which is called SVG can do that.

00:15:10 ◼   ► We will link this 40-minute talk on YouTube, which is basically like a demo reel of all

00:15:16 ◼   ► the utterly freaking bananas stuff that SVG can do.

00:15:19 ◼   ► I had no idea that, like, 90% of this was possible on SVG.

00:15:23 ◼   ► Well, because it supports, I think it supports most of CSS.

00:15:26 ◼   ► It's kind of like how, you know, all valid HTML is technically valid markdown.

00:15:31 ◼   ► They're just like SVG.

00:15:32 ◼   ► It's a thing with graphics, but also anything that WebKit can do, we can basically do.

00:15:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it's really bananas.

00:15:38 ◼   ► I'm not saying you necessarily need to watch all 40 minutes of this video, but it was astonishing

00:15:42 ◼   ► to me, all of these demos and all the stuff that SVG can do.

00:15:46 ◼   ► I definitely learned quite a lot about what was possible.

00:15:49 ◼   ► So I want to check it out if you're interested.

00:15:51 ◼   ► All right, then we had talked about at some point, I presume last episode, I don't know,

00:15:56 ◼   ► my mind is melting right now.

00:15:58 ◼   ► I've had a big week.

00:15:58 ◼   ► But we talked at some point about LLMs to run or to at least come up with FFmpeg commands

00:16:05 ◼   ► to losslessly trim video.

00:16:07 ◼   ► And Damien writes, I've been using the app Lossless Cut for the use case of FFmpeg you described,

00:16:12 ◼   ► and I can't live without it.

00:16:14 ◼   ► We will put a link in the show notes to the marketing page, but it is also on GitHub.

00:16:18 ◼   ► Yeah, the context of this was I was talking about, I think in the, maybe it was in like

00:16:23 ◼   ► the Vibe Coded app section of something or whatever, that one of the main things I did

00:16:27 ◼   ► with LLMs, I asked them to do, to make FFmpeg commands for me to losslessly trim stuff.

00:16:30 ◼   ► Since we had that discussion, I did Vibe Code myself a little, basically like a tiny little

00:16:36 ◼   ► toy Mac app that just runs the FFmpeg commands for me, so I don't have to ask a thing to do it,

00:16:42 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:16:43 ◼   ► It'll just, you know, I just make an app and then I can use that.

00:16:45 ◼   ► And then this lossless cut thing is what everyone else is using, which is way more fancy and

00:16:51 ◼   ► sophisticated and much more capable of the tiny little toy thing that I made.

00:16:56 ◼   ► But I will say doing the toy app, it reminded me, and I'm also reminded of this by seeing

00:17:01 ◼   ► Jason Snell make one of his own little apps, Vibe Code one of his own little apps, just how

00:17:07 ◼   ► awful these LLMs are at doing UI on the Mac.

00:17:09 ◼   ► Like they have no idea what they should be doing.

00:17:12 ◼   ► When I, in my little Vibe Coded, like, you know, lossless trimming application, I just

00:17:17 ◼   ► deleted the entire SwiftUI view that was the main view.

00:17:20 ◼   ► I'm like, just, this is, this is beyond repair.

00:17:22 ◼   ► I just, just wrote it myself.

00:17:23 ◼   ► It's like, it's like three text fields and a button.

00:17:25 ◼   ► Like, how can you mess this up?

00:17:26 ◼   ► But it found a way.

00:17:27 ◼   ► Uh, so I just wrote that myself.

00:17:28 ◼   ► Um, and then I spent the rest of the time basically arguing with it about how I wanted the, uh,

00:17:34 ◼   ► the text fields to work.

00:17:36 ◼   ► Again, I should have just done it myself.

00:17:37 ◼   ► But part of this is like experimentation and seeing what the capability of these models are.

00:17:41 ◼   ► Um, cause you know, there's a start in an end timestamp field and I want them to be super

00:17:46 ◼   ► duper flexible and allow me to, yes, write in the exact timestamp with columns between all

00:17:50 ◼   ► the things and fractional seconds and stuff.

00:17:52 ◼   ► But I also want to be able to type things like one minute, five seconds, one M five S with

00:17:57 ◼   ► and without spaces, min, min, sex, sex, you know, like all the, like, I just want to be

00:18:01 ◼   ► able to type anything that I could reasonably think of that I could type into this field and

00:18:04 ◼   ► it should take it.

00:18:05 ◼   ► And also, as I mentioned in an earlier discussion, like I wanted to implement that feature that

00:18:09 ◼   ► all the, uh, the web dev tools have, which is if you put the insertion point in the minutes

00:18:13 ◼   ► field and I hit the up arrow, it should make it go up a minute.

00:18:15 ◼   ► And when it gets to 59, it should wrap.

00:18:17 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:18:17 ◼   ► Like just niceties of the fields.

00:18:19 ◼   ► And I want, when you first click in the field, I want it to select the entire value, but

00:18:22 ◼   ► I've edited the value.

00:18:23 ◼   ► And then I click in the field.

00:18:24 ◼   ► I don't want it to select the entire value, you know, just the basic niceties of a Mac app.

00:18:30 ◼   ► And I think it's a combination of LLMs having no idea how to make a decent Mac app and also

00:18:35 ◼   ► Swift UI and the Mac, just like fighting you every step of the way.

00:18:39 ◼   ► Like the control, the Mac controls and Swift UI, unlike the app kit controls, do not look

00:18:45 ◼   ► and work correctly out of the box.

00:18:47 ◼   ► Like you just, like I want to have a label and a text field, a label and a text field.

00:18:50 ◼   ► And Swift UI is like, I don't know what you're talking about.

00:18:52 ◼   ► Oh, did you mean this, this garbage?

00:18:54 ◼   ► That's nothing like the Mac?

00:18:55 ◼   ► Like, no, that's not what I meant.

00:18:56 ◼   ► Like the defaults in Swift UI for the Mac are wrong and bad.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Anyway, um, I did look at the, I have the lossless cut thing and I'm going to probably

00:19:03 ◼   ► use that from now on because it's so much more capable, but I put my insertion point in the

00:19:07 ◼   ► minutes field and lossless cut, it hit the up arrow and it didn't do what I wanted.

00:19:10 ◼   ► So it just, it just put the insertion point at the beginning of the field, which is the

00:19:13 ◼   ► right thing to do for a Mac text field.

00:19:14 ◼   ► But you know, if your whole app is around trimming to the beginning, the end, maybe add

00:19:18 ◼   ► some niceties.

00:19:18 ◼   ► So I'll probably, maybe I'll use my little trimmer thing too.

00:19:21 ◼   ► Oh, and it's so clear by the way, that the LLMs had seen the source to lossless cut, which

00:19:26 ◼   ► is open source because a lot of the things they implemented in my trimming app use like

00:19:30 ◼   ► words and phrases for particular settings that are exactly from lossless cut.

00:19:33 ◼   ► So yeah, good job LLMs.

00:19:35 ◼   ► I'd like to call this what about corner where we have a couple of entries.

00:19:39 ◼   ► Julian Gamble writes with regard to using a web view in Overcast, isn't it incongruous

00:19:45 ◼   ► to on one hand say that Electron apps are terrible and on the other say that web views in your

00:19:49 ◼   ► app are great because WebKit is amazing technology?

00:19:51 ◼   ► No, it isn't for a couple of reasons.

00:19:53 ◼   ► First of all, Electron isn't WebKit, right?

00:19:55 ◼   ► It's what you want to call them that Chrome uses.

00:19:57 ◼   ► Chrome, not that it matters, but yeah.

00:19:59 ◼   ► I mean, that's fair.

00:19:59 ◼   ► But secondly, I feel like it's quite a bit different to have an entire app running in the

00:20:05 ◼   ► context of the web as opposed to leveraging the web for the things that it's good at in

00:20:10 ◼   ► the context of a native app.

00:20:11 ◼   ► I mean, I don't feel like it's incongruous at all.

00:20:13 ◼   ► If you think about it for more than a moment, I do understand what Julian's saying, but I

00:20:17 ◼   ► don't think it's unreasonable in any way, shape or form.

00:20:20 ◼   ► No, well, because there's a huge difference between using WebKit or Electron or whatever,

00:20:25 ◼   ► you know, using that to render a rich text area versus using it for your entire UI.

00:20:32 ◼   ► WebKit is incredibly good at rendering rich text like that's what it's made for.

00:20:37 ◼   ► That's what it was designed for from the start.

00:20:39 ◼   ► And while you can implement entire application UIs in WebKit, like it is technically possible,

00:20:48 ◼   ► but those tend to be worse in all these different ways than full native UIs using native controls

00:20:54 ◼   ► and native APIs.

00:20:55 ◼   ► it isn't to say it's impossible to make good UI with WebKit.

00:20:58 ◼   ► It's just unlikely.

00:21:00 ◼   ► Like you can try and you're probably not going to succeed.

00:21:04 ◼   ► Whereas if you're trying to render rich text and, and do very, do a lot of advanced things

00:21:11 ◼   ► with text layout, you know, like text with embedded images and stuff around the text or, or, you

00:21:17 ◼   ► know, different having issues like I was talking about last week with text selection between

00:21:21 ◼   ► different text nodes and everything.

00:21:22 ◼   ► WebKit specializes in that.

00:21:24 ◼   ► And as good as WebKit is at that, the native controls are as bad at those things as WebKit

00:21:32 ◼   ► is bad at UIs.

00:21:33 ◼   ► So while it is possible to make good UIs in WebKit, you probably won't.

00:21:39 ◼   ► And while it is possible to make good rich text displaying features with native apps, you probably

00:21:45 ◼   ► won't.

00:21:45 ◼   ► The great thing is native apps give us the option to use both.

00:21:49 ◼   ► You can have native controls for most of your app where the native controls really excel and

00:21:55 ◼   ► you can use WebKit in an embedded web view somewhere where you actually need rich text and the things

00:22:00 ◼   ► that come along with it.

00:22:00 ◼   ► So this is a, this is a, an important distinction, but one that nobody really needs to make as a

00:22:06 ◼   ► purist because you can just use both for what they're good at.

00:22:09 ◼   ► And speaking of a WebKit and Electron apps and LLMs and Vibe coding apps, when you ask them to

00:22:15 ◼   ► make a Mac app, the UIs they come up with look like web UIs down to like having like blue, maybe

00:22:22 ◼   ► it's not always underlined, but like blue clickable text and like, like the conventions of the web

00:22:26 ◼   ► appear and they think, is this a Mac UI?

00:22:29 ◼   ► I'm like, well, I can see why you might think that.

00:22:31 ◼   ► I mean, to be fair, like that's a Johnny Ive Mac UI.

00:22:33 ◼   ► Like that's like Apple has made a lot of Mac UIs that look exactly like that.

00:22:37 ◼   ► And also like Electron apps, obviously a lot of Electron apps look like that as well.

00:22:41 ◼   ► So that's, I mean, it's, you can be forgiven, like maybe the LMs can be forgiven because it's

00:22:46 ◼   ► like the point I was making to Jason, it's like these LMs don't know how to make a good Mac app,

00:22:50 ◼   ► but then again, these days, neither does Apple.

00:22:52 ◼   ► So like, what do you, what do you expect them to learn from?

00:22:55 ◼   ► So we're, we're in a dark time with Mac UIs here, but, but yeah, the first shot out of the

00:22:59 ◼   ► box from LLM, Hey, make me a Mac app with Swift UI.

00:23:01 ◼   ► And it's like, is this what you wanted?

00:23:03 ◼   ► And it looks like a frigging webpage and that's all with native controls, by the way,

00:23:07 ◼   ► like there's multiple layers of this.

00:23:08 ◼   ► There's Electron as the technology.

00:23:10 ◼   ► And there's also like, what does the UI look like?

00:23:12 ◼   ► And they are somewhat connected and that one leads you in a particular direction, but you

00:23:16 ◼   ► can, you can use fully native Swift UI and make a UI that looks like a web app.

00:23:20 ◼   ► All right.

00:23:21 ◼   ► And then continuing the, what about corner, uh, Weimar or something like that, right?

00:23:26 ◼   ► Does John's skepticism about using the move command modifiers in the finder extend to using

00:23:32 ◼   ► the Unix MV command or move command?

00:23:34 ◼   ► If so, why, if not, what do you think is different between the two?

00:23:38 ◼   ► Wouldn't they be built similarly?

00:23:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:40 ◼   ► My objection was to using a modifier in the finder that turns what would be a copy operation

00:23:45 ◼   ► into a move operation.

00:23:46 ◼   ► That's where the danger lies.

00:23:47 ◼   ► It's not just like moving a file within a volume on the finder, because that is just

00:23:50 ◼   ► going to end up doing like essentially a rename system call into the covers.

00:23:53 ◼   ► And like, that's exactly the same as the MV command.

00:23:55 ◼   ► Uh, but it's like when you're doing something across volumes, if you drag a file from one

00:23:59 ◼   ► volume to another, you see the little plus badge appear on your cursor because it's telling

00:24:03 ◼   ► you, Hey, I'm going to copy this.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Uh, and if you hold down command, it will go away.

00:24:06 ◼   ► And I was like, Oh no, actually I'm going to move it.

00:24:08 ◼   ► And copying it is fine.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Obviously moving it is a, basically a two-step operation because it can't actually move it with

00:24:14 ◼   ► the, like, you know, the, the system call that would actually

00:24:17 ◼   ► remove a file because it's a different volume.

00:24:18 ◼   ► It has to first copy it over there.

00:24:20 ◼   ► And then when it's done copying, it has to delete the source.

00:24:23 ◼   ► And at various times the finder has had bugs where that process could mess up where it's

00:24:28 ◼   ► like, I, I've successfully copied it and I've deleted the source.

00:24:30 ◼   ► And you look at the place where it was supposed to copy it and it's not there, but the source

00:24:33 ◼   ► is also deleted.

00:24:34 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying to avoid.

00:24:36 ◼   ► So it's really no connection to the MV command.

00:24:38 ◼   ► I believe the MV command would not work across volume.

00:24:41 ◼   ► So don't quote me on that.

00:24:42 ◼   ► Cause I haven't actually tried it on the Mac or in any, yeah, in any recent Unix for that

00:24:47 ◼   ► matter.

00:24:47 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, don't, don't worry about just like moving a file in the finder by like dragging

00:24:51 ◼   ► it from one folder to another within a volume.

00:24:53 ◼   ► That's perfectly fine.

00:24:54 ◼   ► All right, let's talk about APFS on spinning hard drives.

00:24:57 ◼   ► David, David McKeich writes, I've recently switched back to using time machine.

00:25:03 ◼   ► I've had issues with degrading performance on APFS hard drives in the past.

00:25:06 ◼   ► So I decided to enable defragmentation using the disk util command line tool.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Today, I learned that you can defrag an APFS disk.

00:25:14 ◼   ► I had no idea.

00:25:15 ◼   ► Uh, anyway, uh, there's some, uh, details on this that I think John, you'd like to, to

00:25:20 ◼   ► add.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Yeah, the command is just a disk util APFS defragment and then the disk name and then

00:25:24 ◼   ► enable.

00:25:24 ◼   ► Uh, so you're enabling defragmentation and I think the disk, the man page is okay about

00:25:30 ◼   ► this, but I think what they want you to put in the disk is something like disk three or

00:25:33 ◼   ► disk three S one.

00:25:34 ◼   ► You can get that info from using disk util to list your devices and stuff, but anyway, it's

00:25:38 ◼   ► not particularly friendly, but you can figure it out.

00:25:40 ◼   ► Uh, and the disk util man page says this about the APFS defragment enable feature.

00:25:44 ◼   ► Um, it's manage automatic background defragmentation of user file data.

00:25:50 ◼   ► That's a mouthful, but the point is this is not a command that you run and it does

00:25:54 ◼   ► defragmentation.

00:25:54 ◼   ► This enables quote unquote automatic background defragmentation.

00:25:58 ◼   ► I don't know why it says of user file data as opposed to what, like, is it just saying

00:26:02 ◼   ► that it doesn't do it on the, the read only system volume, but anyway, that feature exists.

00:26:07 ◼   ► I would only use that on, on spinning disks, uh, and not on SSDs, but just FYI, it's there.

00:26:12 ◼   ► All right.

00:26:13 ◼   ► And then we'll also put a link to us and MJ PSI roundup in the show notes.

00:26:17 ◼   ► Uh, David continues.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I've enabled this on two drives, the drive for projects and a backup drive.

00:26:22 ◼   ► And so far, so good.

00:26:23 ◼   ► Does this defrag option really help?

00:26:25 ◼   ► When does it run?

00:26:26 ◼   ► Why is it hidden away?

00:26:27 ◼   ► And additionally, should Apple create a subset of APFS specifically for, for spinning hard

00:26:31 ◼   ► drives to address these issues?

00:26:33 ◼   ► So if you follow the MJ side link, you'll see that a lot of people are reporting that

00:26:36 ◼   ► it does help.

00:26:36 ◼   ► Um, I never ran it on my spinning disk.

00:26:38 ◼   ► I probably should have.

00:26:39 ◼   ► Um, I'm assuming if the command exists, that it actually does something and that it runs

00:26:44 ◼   ► in the background.

00:26:45 ◼   ► And I think the reason it's hidden away is because spinning disks are a legacy thing as

00:26:50 ◼   ► far as Apple's concerned.

00:26:51 ◼   ► And so they're not going to emphasize anything related to them.

00:26:53 ◼   ► I'm, I'm actually kind of surprised that it exists at all, but it probably just exists

00:26:56 ◼   ► from back when they were first developing APFS and they didn't know how fast SSD adoption

00:27:01 ◼   ► would go.

00:27:01 ◼   ► Uh, they didn't have an eye towards that working well on, uh, on spinning disks, but they figure,

00:27:06 ◼   ► well, maybe we should have this defragmentation feature, uh, anyway, maybe it'll help on SSDs.

00:27:11 ◼   ► I'm assuming Apple determined that it doesn't really help at all.

00:27:15 ◼   ► So that's why it's kind of buried in an obscure backwater.

00:27:18 ◼   ► We've talked about APFS features before that technically exists, but have either been abandoned

00:27:23 ◼   ► or just like left in an incomplete state for years and years.

00:27:27 ◼   ► So this may fall into that category, but it is officially supported and it's in the man

00:27:31 ◼   ► page.

00:27:31 ◼   ► So I would feel perfectly comfortable doing it.

00:27:33 ◼   ► And if it helps and makes your spinning disk performance at APFS better than, you know,

00:27:37 ◼   ► go for it.

00:27:37 ◼   ► And again, the reports from the few users I saw reporting on the say that it did help them.

00:27:41 ◼   ► All right, let's talk about AI sentiments.

00:27:44 ◼   ► We talked about this, was this overtime last week?

00:27:46 ◼   ► I believe.

00:27:46 ◼   ► Um, it was like the main topic.

00:27:48 ◼   ► Oh, my bad.

00:27:49 ◼   ► All right.

00:27:49 ◼   ► My bad.

00:27:49 ◼   ► Uh, anyways, we talked about, you know, how everyone is crotchety about AI, which fair,

00:27:53 ◼   ► uh, Nathan writes, one thing y'all might have missed in the long list of AI objections.

00:27:57 ◼   ► Thanks to your self-employment, workplace behavior, imagine, imagine the dumbest, laziest, most

00:28:04 ◼   ► malicious person you've ever worked with now arm them with a tool that can generate mountains

00:28:08 ◼   ► of reports, JIRA tickets, internal documentation, spam, and sprawling poll requests with dozens

00:28:13 ◼   ► of copilot comments, hundreds of change files, thousands of change lines, and a long nonsensical

00:28:18 ◼   ► description.

00:28:19 ◼   ► They bury the rest of us in slop, and the execs applaud it.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Woof.

00:28:23 ◼   ► And Nathan does make me glad that I left that world before LM coding agents came along.

00:28:27 ◼   ► But, uh, a lot of, uh, bad workplace experiences begin with the premise that is, imagine the

00:28:33 ◼   ► dumbest, laziest, most malicious person you ever worked with.

00:28:35 ◼   ► I have no problem imagining that person.

00:28:36 ◼   ► I work with that person.

00:28:37 ◼   ► Technology can enable them to be worse.

00:28:39 ◼   ► Uh, there's lots of those people.

00:28:41 ◼   ► Hopefully I've never been that person, but yeah, that person's going to find a way to make

00:28:44 ◼   ► everyone's life miserable no matter what.

00:28:46 ◼   ► But I can imagine, oh, um, coding agents being an accelerant in particular for developers of

00:28:50 ◼   ► that bent.

00:28:50 ◼   ► I think one thing I wanted to address on, um, on the AI sentiment angle, I think one of the

00:28:57 ◼   ► biggest things to keep in mind when, when, when, when thinking about what do regular people

00:29:02 ◼   ► who are not tech enthusiasts like us, what do they think of AI?

00:29:05 ◼   ► Where are they seeing AI in most of the world?

00:29:09 ◼   ► That's not having fun generating Mac apps with AI.

00:29:12 ◼   ► They're seeing AI make their lives worse in a few ways.

00:29:17 ◼   ► So either if they work in a field that AI is destroying the market for, that's going to

00:29:24 ◼   ► directly impact them in a really big, possibly very negative way.

00:29:28 ◼   ► But also everyday life, when you call a call center, now you're hitting AI agents.

00:29:34 ◼   ► When you try to get customer support, now you're hitting AI agents.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Customer support in general is now being made significantly worse in lots of areas because

00:29:44 ◼   ► now they're putting AI agents in front of, you know, between, between you and getting your

00:29:48 ◼   ► problem solved by somebody who actually has, you know, the power to do it.

00:29:51 ◼   ► I've seen this myself and I'm sure everyone else is seeing it even more than, than I am.

00:29:55 ◼   ► So what most people see about the world of AI is things in their life are being made worse

00:30:03 ◼   ► and they don't necessarily see the upside for them because maybe there isn't one, or at least

00:30:10 ◼   ► maybe there isn't one yet, or maybe there isn't one directly.

00:30:13 ◼   ► So what, what most people are seeing is AI is making my life more annoying or it's making

00:30:19 ◼   ► it harder for me to make a living and they're not seeing the upside.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Also AI is now being added to a bunch of, you know, subscription-based products and then the

00:30:27 ◼   ► prices are going up and the companies are saying, we're now, we're now delivering you so much

00:30:31 ◼   ► more value with our new AI bot that's in our product.

00:30:34 ◼   ► And therefore we need to raise our price.

00:30:36 ◼   ► And the people are like, well, what if I don't want that?

00:30:38 ◼   ► And I don't want to pay them the higher price.

00:30:40 ◼   ► Can I just keep paying the old price and not have your stupid AI that I didn't ask for that

00:30:43 ◼   ► you're shoving in my face?

00:30:44 ◼   ► So I think we really have to be aware of like what most people are actually seeing from quote

00:30:50 ◼   ► AI, like the world of AI that they're seeing.

00:30:51 ◼   ► I think for a lot of people, it's just making their lives harder or more annoying or harder

00:30:58 ◼   ► to make money in.

00:30:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:00 ◼   ► I agree with you.

00:31:01 ◼   ► I think just AI being force-fed to everyone is just not great.

00:31:04 ◼   ► And think about, you know, too, like where is all this value that's being created, where

00:31:09 ◼   ► is it going?

00:31:09 ◼   ► It's going to a few companies at the top.

00:31:12 ◼   ► That's where it's going.

00:31:13 ◼   ► Like there's lots of ways that AI can make individual workers more productive.

00:31:18 ◼   ► It can help small businesses.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Like there's lots of ways that it can help and that it is helping.

00:31:23 ◼   ► But where most of the value now, like so far is going is it's making a few very rich people

00:31:31 ◼   ► even richer.

00:31:31 ◼   ► And that's a pretty bad selling proposition for everyone else whose lives are being made

00:31:37 ◼   ► worse by AI being, you know, destroying their job or being used in places that make their

00:31:44 ◼   ► lives harder to get around in.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Ian Robinson, continuing the AI sentiment chat.

00:31:50 ◼   ► Ian Robinson said, you mentioned legislators mandating that data center construction should

00:31:54 ◼   ► include clean energy production.

00:31:56 ◼   ► Ireland has done exactly that.

00:31:58 ◼   ► I will link to Ireland tells data center developers to bring their own clean energy.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Ian continues.

00:32:03 ◼   ► See also the Irish government leap, which is large energy user action plan program, which

00:32:08 ◼   ► we will also link to in the show notes.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Alright, then we also had a hilarious petapixel, I don't know how to pronounce it, P-E-T-A pixel.

00:32:18 ◼   ► There you go.

00:32:19 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:32:19 ◼   ► Hilarious petapixel article, which was sent to us by Dave Aiton.

00:32:23 ◼   ► This is Michael Zhang writing it.

00:32:26 ◼   ► Someone shared an actual Monet painting as an AI-generated artwork and asked people to explain what makes

00:32:31 ◼   ► the quote-unquote AI image inferior to a genuine Monet piece.

00:32:34 ◼   ► So again, they're baiting people by putting up an actual painting from the actual Monet and

00:32:39 ◼   ► saying, oh, what do you think is wrong with this AI piece?

00:32:42 ◼   ► And the responses are just incredible.

00:32:45 ◼   ► John has been kind enough to curate a few for us.

00:32:47 ◼   ► The first one, there's no cohesion to the depth and color choices.

00:32:51 ◼   ► The reflection of the tree blends into the lily pads with no regard for spatial depth or contrast.

00:32:56 ◼   ► The background lily pad algae amalgam is egregiously vague, like most AI art.

00:33:01 ◼   ► Egregiously vague.

00:33:02 ◼   ► I love that.

00:33:03 ◼   ► The second example, the reflection in AI art is just noise splattered right.

00:33:08 ◼   ► Monet actually understood how light behaves on water.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Third one, slop.

00:33:13 ◼   ► Doesn't look anywhere near like a Monet.

00:33:16 ◼   ► Looks exactly like somebody trying to replicate its style in achieving like 20% of it.

00:33:20 ◼   ► Not as vibrant as Monet's typical choice of colors.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Looks dull.

00:33:23 ◼   ► Finally, as an amateur art enjoyer, the only criticism I can offer is the AI-generated image

00:33:30 ◼   ► does not make me feel anything.

00:33:31 ◼   ► It does not conjure emotion, thought, or wonder.

00:33:33 ◼   ► It's just a colorful wallpaper pattern.

00:33:35 ◼   ► If you look up Monet painting in Google Images, you feel something.

00:33:39 ◼   ► Just incredible work, everyone.

00:33:41 ◼   ► So I put this article in here, not to dunk on people who don't have an encyclopedic knowledge

00:33:46 ◼   ► of every single Monet painting, but just to show that this is an embodiment of the sentiment

00:33:50 ◼   ► about AI.

00:33:51 ◼   ► Because most people aren't art experts, and they don't know every painting, and they don't

00:33:54 ◼   ► know like, you know, not every Monet painting is as good as all the other ones, right?

00:33:58 ◼   ► Like any other human's output, right?

00:34:00 ◼   ► But it's just like, because they were primed with this is an AI image, all of their sort

00:34:05 ◼   ► of vitriol for the basic concept of AI comes streaming out, and they end up, you know, making

00:34:12 ◼   ► fools of themselves by saying that this is like 20% or maybe Monet would agree.

00:34:16 ◼   ► Maybe you say, yeah, this is one of my 20% paintings.

00:34:18 ◼   ► It took me a little while to find this one.

00:34:20 ◼   ► We'll link to a Wikipedia page showing that, yes, this is in fact actually a Monet painting,

00:34:27 ◼   ► a real Monet painting.

00:34:28 ◼   ► And I guess some people didn't like it, but yeah, this is just, this is really just like,

00:34:33 ◼   ► if you tell me it's AI, I'm already going to hate it, and let me tell you why.

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00:36:39 ◼   ► If you'll permit us, there's been some pretty big news in the car world.

00:36:47 ◼   ► And so we're going to do a main show neutral.

00:36:50 ◼   ► And this is in no small part because it has been requested many, many times.

00:36:56 ◼   ► John, your future car has arrived.

00:37:00 ◼   ► The, I'm sure, extraordinarily affordable Ferrari Luce, which is apparently starting

00:37:08 ◼   ► at about the equivalent of $650,000.

00:37:10 ◼   ► So let me just drop here, ATP.fm slash join.

00:37:13 ◼   ► This from the outside.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Nicely done.

00:37:16 ◼   ► No amount of members is going to get us into this car.

00:37:18 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:37:18 ◼   ► You never know.

00:37:19 ◼   ► Don't be defeatist, John.

00:37:21 ◼   ► Don't be defeatist.

00:37:21 ◼   ► If every person in the United States became a member, we'll see how we do.

00:37:25 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

00:37:25 ◼   ► All right.

00:37:26 ◼   ► So here's the thing from my personal opinion.

00:37:29 ◼   ► We'll go through the specs.

00:37:30 ◼   ► But my personal opinion is from the outside, this is an abomination from the inside.

00:37:33 ◼   ► It looks great.

00:37:34 ◼   ► But let's talk about what it is.

00:37:35 ◼   ► All right.

00:37:36 ◼   ► So the specs are, it is a five seat, you know, as you would expect of an average sedan, four

00:37:41 ◼   ► door lift back sedan Ferrari.

00:37:43 ◼   ► I don't, they've never done a sedan.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:37:46 ◼   ► That's not an SUV or something along those lines.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Well, I'm going to debate you on whether this is a sedan, but the, the, the, the Parasangue

00:37:52 ◼   ► is a four door, four seat.

00:37:55 ◼   ► It doesn't have a third seat and it doesn't have a middle seat in the back seat.

00:37:58 ◼   ► So this is their first five seat ever.

00:37:59 ◼   ► All right.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Thank you for the correction, John.

00:38:01 ◼   ► So yeah, this is five seats, four doors.

00:38:04 ◼   ► It's lift back.

00:38:04 ◼   ► But what's interesting is the rear doors open, I guess you could say backwards.

00:38:08 ◼   ► So if you imagine the side of the car where the, the front door opens, like where the,

00:38:15 ◼   ► on the B pillar where the front door opens, that is also where the rear door begins to

00:38:20 ◼   ► open, which is different than almost every sedan that you've ever seen.

00:38:23 ◼   ► I think a lot of Rolls Royces do this.

00:38:25 ◼   ► There's been plenty of cars in the past that do this.

00:38:27 ◼   ► I have a car in my garage that does this.

00:38:29 ◼   ► Oh, that's true.

00:38:29 ◼   ► The I3 does that, doesn't it?

00:38:31 ◼   ► And the Ferrari's own Paris Segway does this.

00:38:33 ◼   ► Ah, there you go.

00:38:34 ◼   ► And also, I think that this was most, perhaps most famously for people of our age, whatever

00:38:38 ◼   ► it was, it was a Lincoln, I think that was in the original Matrix that did this as well.

00:38:43 ◼   ► I want to say it was a Continental.

00:38:43 ◼   ► I probably have that wrong.

00:38:44 ◼   ► It's very common.

00:38:45 ◼   ► It was, it's been common more in the past than, you know, lots of fancy cars have done it,

00:38:49 ◼   ► I think as a throwback to the past, but occasionally, I think the reason the I3 does it is when

00:38:53 ◼   ► you have a rear door that's very, very tiny, it's just easier to have it open that way

00:38:57 ◼   ► and just have one big opening.

00:38:58 ◼   ► Didn't the Honda Element do this as well?

00:38:59 ◼   ► No.

00:38:59 ◼   ► I believe that's right.

00:39:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:01 ◼   ► The Honda Element, I think, doesn't have a B pillar, but anyway, they chose to do that

00:39:03 ◼   ► with their back doors.

00:39:04 ◼   ► They're sort of rear hinged.

00:39:06 ◼   ► Yep.

00:39:06 ◼   ► It has 1,035 horsepower, 730 pound-feet of torque, which is quite a lot for perspective.

00:39:13 ◼   ► If you're not a car person, my Volkswagen has somewhere around 300 horsepower and 300 pound-feet

00:39:19 ◼   ► of torque.

00:39:20 ◼   ► I don't think that's entirely right, but it's in the ballpark.

00:39:22 ◼   ► It is a quad motor, all-wheel drive car.

00:39:25 ◼   ► There is a motor per wheel, which is pretty cool.

00:39:27 ◼   ► I think, what did the original launch edition Rivians have?

00:39:30 ◼   ► It had that.

00:39:31 ◼   ► It was...

00:39:32 ◼   ► They still do.

00:39:32 ◼   ► You can still get a Rivian with a motor per wheel, right?

00:39:34 ◼   ► Yeah, you can.

00:39:35 ◼   ► They used the original one, like the one I had was quad motor.

00:39:38 ◼   ► That was the first batch they sold, I think, were all quad motors.

00:39:42 ◼   ► But then, of course, that's fairly expensive and cumbersome.

00:39:45 ◼   ► And so, they fairly quickly after that launched, like, dual and eventually tri-motor versions.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:39:51 ◼   ► I knew about the tri.

00:39:52 ◼   ► I hadn't realized that the launch edition or whatever it was was quad.

00:39:55 ◼   ► There's a couple other car EVs that also have a motor per wheel.

00:39:58 ◼   ► It is a straightforward thing to do.

00:39:59 ◼   ► It helps you avoid lots of issues with, like, torque vectoring differentials.

00:40:03 ◼   ► I thought you'd just put a motor on each wheel.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:05 ◼   ► It has around 330 miles of range, which is about 530 kilometers, a 122-kilowatt-hour battery, 0-60 in about 2.5 seconds, which is pretty solidly in supercar territory as far as I'm concerned.

00:40:19 ◼   ► Maybe not when you consider electric vehicles, but amongst, you know, gasoline vehicles, that is astonishingly fast.

00:40:25 ◼   ► It is just over 5,000 pounds, which is about 2,300 kilograms.

00:40:29 ◼   ► It can charge as fast as 350 kilowatts and starts, as I mentioned, at about $650,000, but that's unofficial because U.S. pricing has yet to be announced.

00:40:39 ◼   ► So, from the outside, I think the first person I saw say this was Stephen Hackett, if I'm not mistaken, although many people have said it since.

00:40:48 ◼   ► This is like Johnny Ive shipped the Magic Mouse as a car.

00:40:53 ◼   ► And why am I even bringing up Johnny Ive?

00:40:55 ◼   ► I should have explained a little bit.

00:40:56 ◼   ► So, when Ferrari was designing this, they actually contracted Love From, which is Johnny Ive, Mark Newsome, and their whole team, to do basically all of the design for this car, despite the fact that Ferrari has its own in-house design team.

00:41:10 ◼   ► And they have done nearly all the design.

00:41:13 ◼   ► And from the outside, I hate this thing.

00:41:18 ◼   ► It's gotten, I hate it less now that it's been, that I've been sitting with it for several days, but I really, maybe I don't hate it, but I really don't like it, like, a lot, a lot.

00:41:27 ◼   ► John, what do you think about it?

00:41:29 ◼   ► Well, this is where I get to before you're saying, like, calling this a sedan.

00:41:32 ◼   ► When I saw this car, I'm like, oh, it's a Jaguar I-Pace.

00:41:35 ◼   ► If you don't know what a Jaguar I-Pace is, picture a Waymo in your head, because Waymo uses the Jaguar I-Pace as the foundation of its Waymo cars in San Francisco.

00:41:43 ◼   ► I think they have used a couple of different cars, but I think the most common one on the street these days is the Jaguar I-Pace.

00:41:50 ◼   ► The Jaguar I-Pace is not a sedan, okay?

00:41:52 ◼   ► It is not really an SUV.

00:41:55 ◼   ► It's kind of like a crossover thing.

00:41:57 ◼   ► I really need to sort of codify this in some way, because I instinctively know it when I look at these vehicles, but I think maybe one of the measurements would be, like, distance from the top of the front wheel arch to the top of the hood.

00:42:09 ◼   ► You know, maybe the points where the windshield intercepts.

00:42:13 ◼   ► But anyway, the I-Pace looks like a very sleek four-door SUV-ish kind of thing.

00:42:19 ◼   ► It doesn't look like a sedan.

00:42:20 ◼   ► It's too upright and tall to be a sedan.

00:42:23 ◼   ► And the Ferrari Luce is similar that I don't, especially since you don't really get an idea from these pictures how big it is.

00:42:31 ◼   ► To give you an idea, if you're a car person and you look at this and you haven't seen the videos already, the wheels are 24 and 23 inches.

00:42:38 ◼   ► Oh, my God.

00:42:39 ◼   ► They don't look like that in the picture, because if you think this is like a sedan, rearrange your measurements, because that's a 24-inch wheel on the back.

00:42:47 ◼   ► And now look at it and think, if that's a 24-inch wheel, how high is this thing?

00:42:50 ◼   ► Now, it is lower than the Purra Sangue, which is Ferrari's quote-unquote SUV, but I wouldn't call this a sedan.

00:42:57 ◼   ► But these days, like every sedan, like even like the Toyota Crown, I look at it and I'm like, are you still a sedan?

00:43:02 ◼   ► I'm not sure, because everything's got to be tall and upright and look like an SUV.

00:43:06 ◼   ► But yeah, it totally looks like an I-Pace, which is not a terrible thing to imitate, because I think the I-Pace is actually a reasonably attractive vehicle.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:14 ◼   ► In fact, I think the I-Pace is significantly better looking than this Ferrari.

00:43:18 ◼   ► Yes.

00:43:18 ◼   ► I mean, it is less Johnny Ive than this Ferrari, for sure, but this car does not particularly appeal to me.

00:43:24 ◼   ► There's a couple of areas where I feel like Johnny really blew it, or the team really blew it on this.

00:43:29 ◼   ► One question I had that I didn't see answered in any of the interviews, and granted, I didn't see all the interviews.

00:43:34 ◼   ► We'll link to the ones that we talk about here, and we'll talk about a couple of them in more depth.

00:43:38 ◼   ► But in the ones I looked at, I didn't see anyone ask them the question.

00:43:42 ◼   ► I think I know the answer, but I would love to see them answer it, which is, did Ferrari come to love from and say, you have to make a four-door, five-seat vehicle?

00:43:52 ◼   ► Or was that a decision of love from?

00:43:54 ◼   ► Because I feel like that changes things a lot.

00:43:57 ◼   ► I'm assuming Ferrari came to them, because the way Ferrari revealed this car is they said, here is our battery with motors and wheels and suspension and nothing else.

00:44:07 ◼   ► Remember when they showed that?

00:44:08 ◼   ► Oh, yes.

00:44:09 ◼   ► Was that different from when Johnny Ive showed only the dashboard?

00:44:12 ◼   ► Right.

00:44:12 ◼   ► That was different.

00:44:13 ◼   ► And then later, they showed only the dashboard, and we talked about it on this show, and we're going to talk about it again here.

00:44:17 ◼   ► But they revealed the fully entire interior, but not inside anything, just disembodied, like, here's the wheel.

00:44:22 ◼   ► Here's the, like, it was just the pieces of it.

00:44:24 ◼   ► We're just floating around, so now we get to see them in context with the whole rest of the interior.

00:44:28 ◼   ► I believe the word you're looking for, John, is deconstructed.

00:44:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:31 ◼   ► And then, finally, they revealed the entire thing.

00:44:34 ◼   ► So I'm assuming that Ferrari said, you have to make a four-door, five-seat thing.

00:44:38 ◼   ► And by the way, here's the measurements, because we've got the, like, the, you know, the battery, the motors.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Like, Lovefram didn't design that.

00:44:45 ◼   ► That's Ferrari's engineering that came up with that.

00:44:47 ◼   ► They said, here are your constraints.

00:44:49 ◼   ► Now, build a car on top of this, which, as one of the points was made in one of the interviews, like, it's pretty much a blank canvas because of the way EVs are.

00:44:56 ◼   ► It's like, well, you've got a big, long, flat floor because of that battery.

00:44:59 ◼   ► There's no tunnel or anything.

00:45:00 ◼   ► So, like, whatever you want to do car-wise on top of this, you only have a very few hard points that you have to meet.

00:45:06 ◼   ► You've got the top of the suspension geometry.

00:45:08 ◼   ► You've got the wheelbase.

00:45:09 ◼   ► And that's basically it.

00:45:10 ◼   ► You can do anything you want.

00:45:11 ◼   ► They could have made it lower.

00:45:12 ◼   ► They could have made it taller.

00:45:13 ◼   ► They could have made it longer.

00:45:14 ◼   ► They could have made it shorter in terms of overhangs and stuff, right?

00:45:17 ◼   ► And maybe they even could have adjusted the wheelbase.

00:45:19 ◼   ► But if that's the design brief, which is you're going to make a four-door electric Ferrari with five seats, what they came up with, as everyone has pointed out, as The Verge and its typical blunt headlines pointed out, here's what their headline said.

00:45:36 ◼   ► Johnny Ives' Ferrari looks nothing like a Ferrari.

00:45:38 ◼   ► I said this about the interior.

00:45:40 ◼   ► I said that when we saw the pieces of the interior, this doesn't look like a Ferrari interior.

00:45:44 ◼   ► It looks like an interior that Johnny Ives' company would make.

00:45:47 ◼   ► They put Ferrari badges on it and stuff.

00:45:49 ◼   ► And the car is similar.

00:45:51 ◼   ► And to Ferrari's credit slash, I don't know, as way of explanation, this is not a, Ferrari is pitching this as this is not a mistake.

00:46:02 ◼   ► That the idea was make this car and don't worry about what Ferraris look like.

00:46:08 ◼   ► This is like a separate thing.

00:46:10 ◼   ► In fact, going so far as having the C, I believe the CEO of the company was saying, if you love internal combustion Ferraris, don't buy this car.

00:46:17 ◼   ► Because, because duh, I mean, like, you know, but the point is, they're not saying, hey, do you love internal combustion Ferraris?

00:46:22 ◼   ► Well, you're going to love this EV.

00:46:23 ◼   ► The CEO is saying, no, you won't.

00:46:25 ◼   ► You won't love this.

00:46:26 ◼   ► Not, it's not the thing.

00:46:27 ◼   ► And their designer made the point in one of the interviews that we're going to link to, which is a somewhat fair point, but on the other hand, not quite fair.

00:46:34 ◼   ► He said, well, in Ferrari, we don't make cars that look like each other.

00:46:40 ◼   ► And that's not true of a lot of car makers.

00:46:42 ◼   ► I mean, not to pick on Volvo, but look at Volvo.

00:46:44 ◼   ► If you look at Volvo's entire lineup, you'll see a family resemblance.

00:46:48 ◼   ► Like some of them might be fraternal twins.

00:46:51 ◼   ► They look very similar.

00:46:53 ◼   ► Design elements from a given like design language of Volvo are spread across the entire line.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Whereas if you look at every individual Ferrari model, yeah, there is commonality.

00:47:02 ◼   ► And in fact, I would say more so now than there used to be, but every individual car, it's like its own shape, its own thing.

00:47:09 ◼   ► And so I said, well, this one's just another one.

00:47:11 ◼   ► It's also its own shape.

00:47:12 ◼   ► That's true.

00:47:13 ◼   ► It doesn't borrow from other cars just the same way.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Like the, you know, the, the SF90 doesn't borrow from the, the F430 or whatever.

00:47:20 ◼   ► But this one, like one of these things is not like the other.

00:47:23 ◼   ► You line up the entire Ferrari, um, car lineup, including the Pura Sangue, which is this existing four door, four seat, quote unquote SUV.

00:47:31 ◼   ► That it looks very similar to this in terms of proportion and shape, but it looks nothing like it if you put them next to each other.

00:47:38 ◼   ► So this is intentionally outside the realm of Ferrari.

00:47:41 ◼   ► It's an EV.

00:47:42 ◼   ► It's not trying to be an internal combustion engine.

00:47:44 ◼   ► It's not trying to look like a Ferrari.

00:47:45 ◼   ► And in that regard, it has succeeded in not looking like a Ferrari because it does not look like a Ferrari.

00:47:51 ◼   ► And as, as for whether it looks good or not, I have my picks for which aspects of it I like the least.

00:47:57 ◼   ► But, uh, what, what are your least favorite parts of the outside of this car?

00:48:00 ◼   ► I, I have to say, I don't, I don't hate it as much as everyone else does.

00:48:07 ◼   ► Um, but those, the doors, oh no, the doors are bad.

00:48:14 ◼   ► That's like, to me, like that's, that's the one big problem I have with it is those, those backwards opening doors.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Because I have like Tiff, my wife's car has those backwards opening doors and it makes the car so annoying to get in and out of.

00:48:32 ◼   ► If anyone's in the backseat, like anyone, like it's, you have to like, you know, squeeze around like, oh, you go in.

00:48:38 ◼   ► No, you go ahead first and you go in, like if you're, if you're between, like if you're parked in a parking lot, a regular parking lot, like with, you know, spots that line up, you know, that way.

00:48:47 ◼   ► Like squeezing around the door to get the backseat door open and get it like, it's such a pain in the butt.

00:48:52 ◼   ► And I think, okay, well, why did they do that?

00:48:55 ◼   ► And I look at the shape of the car and I'm like, it didn't need that.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Like it almost, I think it would have been better off just as a two door car.

00:49:01 ◼   ► Well, this is a really big car.

00:49:03 ◼   ► Like that's the thing that I was trying to get across with the size of the wheels.

00:49:06 ◼   ► Like I know the I3 is tiny in the back, the little rear hinge back doors are also tiny, but there is tons of interior space in this car.

00:49:13 ◼   ► These doors, this door is big, but to your point, if you want to see this, we'll link various links in the notes where you can see pictures of it.

00:49:21 ◼   ► But a lot of them shows the overhead view of the car with all four doors open.

00:49:25 ◼   ► And the point Marco is making is if you look at that picture, you can see that the aperture for the front and rear passenger is narrow and both the front and rear passenger have to go through that little narrow opening.

00:49:37 ◼   ► That's what you're talking about.

00:49:38 ◼   ► Like, oh no, you first.

00:49:39 ◼   ► Now you, why are you saying that?

00:49:40 ◼   ► If they were normal opening doors, the person going in the front door would have their little place where they go.

00:49:44 ◼   ► And the person opening the back door would have their little place where they go.

00:49:47 ◼   ► And they would both open their doors simultaneously and they would both get into the car.

00:49:49 ◼   ► But here that when you open the doors, you're creating one slightly narrower passage that both people have to pass through to get to their entrance into the car.

00:49:58 ◼   ► And that is silly.

00:50:00 ◼   ► It's not as dumb as the Falcon wing doors on the Model X.

00:50:03 ◼   ► And I'm sure it is inspired by the various Bentleys that Johnny Ive owns and stuff.

00:50:07 ◼   ► And by the way, for his obsession with symmetry, because, hey, look from above.

00:50:11 ◼   ► It looks nice and symmetrical, doesn't it?

00:50:12 ◼   ► But it's worse.

00:50:13 ◼   ► It's worse than regular doors.

00:50:14 ◼   ► I also, I do not like what they have done to the front face.

00:50:21 ◼   ► Like, the way it kind of, like, it's, like, almost inset a little bit.

00:50:25 ◼   ► Like, I don't.

00:50:26 ◼   ► That's not a lot.

00:50:27 ◼   ► There are parts of the front, especially, like, the way, like, how the, the way that the dashboard slopes down into, like, the hood area.

00:50:37 ◼   ► There are parts of it that actually remind me a lot of the BMW i8.

00:50:40 ◼   ► And, and I actually, I think the i8, while it was a very weird car, I think it's actually very striking and very cool.

00:50:48 ◼   ► The i8 is way better looking in this car.

00:50:50 ◼   ► But, yes, I have to agree.

00:50:51 ◼   ► Like, you can see, like, it's, it's going for a similar style there.

00:50:56 ◼   ► But I think the i8 does a much better job of it.

00:50:58 ◼   ► And the way the taillight section is kind of, like, inset also, it, it almost feels like somebody took a Ferrari and stuck a really weird body kit around it.

00:51:09 ◼   ► And, I don't know, I, the other thing, though, is that it is very, very clear to me that, as you were saying, this is a Johnny Ive designed car.

00:51:19 ◼   ► This is not a Ferrari in any way, shape, or form.

00:51:23 ◼   ► I actually think parts of this are very cool looking.

00:51:26 ◼   ► And the interior definitely looks better than the exterior, no question.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Yes, 100%.

00:51:32 ◼   ► Like, the interior, I think, is very nice.

00:51:34 ◼   ► And I would like much of that or all of that in, in a car of mine.

00:51:39 ◼   ► But, yeah, the exterior, it just looks like, yeah, this, this is what Johnny Ive has been trying to do for, like, 15 years, was design this car and Ferrari let him do it.

00:51:51 ◼   ► And for all the good and bad that comes with a Johnny Ive that's, you know, in, in this, in his fully developed form with no one to hold him back anymore, this is what happens.

00:52:02 ◼   ► And there's a lot of good there, and there's a lot of bizarre and weird there.

00:52:07 ◼   ► And I do, I don't want to gloss over the fact that much of it, though, is very good.

00:52:12 ◼   ► I do like a lot of this.

00:52:13 ◼   ► And, in fact, if this was, you know, suppose this was just, like, you know, a high-end BMW or Mercedes.

00:52:21 ◼   ► You know, if this was, like, a $90,000 EV from a luxury brand, that would be, you know, competing with, like, you know, the former Model S and, you know, like, the BMW iX and stuff like that.

00:52:31 ◼   ► Like, yeah, that would actually be a pretty compelling option.

00:52:36 ◼   ► But where it is now, trying to be a Ferrari, trying to embody Ferrari spirit and design, and, you know, priced as a Ferrari-priced vehicle, I don't quite know who this is for besides Johnny himself.

00:52:52 ◼   ► Oh, I can tell you who it's for, but we'll get to that in a little bit.

00:52:55 ◼   ► Casey, what's your least favorite exterior aspect?

00:52:57 ◼   ► I think the turbine-style wheels, which you see sometimes, they are freaking terrible.

00:53:04 ◼   ► You were talking about the aero ones, the ones that are, like, dinner plates.

00:53:07 ◼   ► Like, that's kind of the problem.

00:53:08 ◼   ► The curse of EVs is if you get the wheels, the wheel covers that cover the entire wheels, it's better for your mileage, but they look worse.

00:53:15 ◼   ► Yes.

00:53:15 ◼   ► Yeah, like the Tesla Model 3 ones, I can't envision them just off the top of my head, but I remember thinking they were not good, but not nearly as offensive as these are.

00:53:23 ◼   ► It's pretty bad.

00:53:24 ◼   ► I also don't like that there's a grab handle on the front, like, not literally, of course, but, like, you know, where the Ferrari logo is, there's a gap beneath the Ferrari logo where the body isn't, if that makes sense, on the front.

00:53:36 ◼   ► So, like, where there would be a hood, there's, like, a floating sort of situation.

00:53:41 ◼   ► It has a front and rear wing.

00:53:42 ◼   ► It's the same thing in the back as well.

00:53:44 ◼   ► It's basically got a full-width front wing and a full-width rear wing.

00:53:47 ◼   ► I don't mind it as much in the back.

00:53:48 ◼   ► In fact, I don't think the back looks that bad, but I really dislike basically everything going on in the front.

00:53:53 ◼   ► I'm not as offended by the rear doors.

00:53:55 ◼   ► I don't disagree with what you two were saying with it being difficult or more difficult for ingress and egress.

00:54:00 ◼   ► I don't debate that.

00:54:02 ◼   ► But from an aesthetic point of view, I don't really mind them opening the way they do.

00:54:06 ◼   ► I don't care for the weird panel in the front doors, like the black panel that's hanging out for some reason.

00:54:12 ◼   ► I'm sure there's a reason for it, but I don't know why.

00:54:15 ◼   ► But on the exterior, I just, I really don't care for it.

00:54:20 ◼   ► I extremely don't care for it as a Ferrari.

00:54:24 ◼   ► And I don't think I particularly care for it as anything nicer than, like, a Kia.

00:54:28 ◼   ► And I don't love it.

00:54:31 ◼   ► I don't know what I think also about the windshield wipers.

00:54:35 ◼   ► They made a big deal in one of the videos that I watched.

00:54:38 ◼   ► They made a big deal about the fact that the windshield wipers park vertically rather than horizontally.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Why?

00:54:44 ◼   ► There was a reason that I can't recall.

00:54:46 ◼   ► I think it's...

00:54:46 ◼   ► I can tell you why as well.

00:54:47 ◼   ► So this is one of my pet peeves with what very expensive cars are doing with their windshield wipers these days.

00:54:52 ◼   ► So the windshield wipers, when they are not windshield wiping in their at-rest position, they are positioned on the A-pillars.

00:55:00 ◼   ► That means vertically on the left, far left and far right edge of the windshield.

00:55:05 ◼   ► That's where they sit, straight up on the edges of the windshield, going from the top to the bottom of the A-pillars.

00:55:10 ◼   ► The reason that they explained why they're there is because, as Marco mentioned before, like, that the windshield slopes down underneath the front wing, essentially.

00:55:20 ◼   ► It's not clear to me, because I haven't seen enough things, whether the windshield glass ends and then another piece of glass continues, or whether it's one continuous piece of glass, or whether it's glass and metal.

00:55:28 ◼   ► But either way, the shape defined by the windshield continues all the way to the nose of the car underneath the front wing.

00:55:35 ◼   ► And therefore, if the windshield wipers rested where they do on a normal car, horizontally, there's no place to hide them from the wind.

00:55:41 ◼   ► On a normal car, there's like a cowl where the windshield wipers kind of tuck into a little cowl when they're not windshield wiping, so the airflow goes over them and doesn't hit them.

00:55:49 ◼   ► And so they needed some place, because if they put the windshield wipers there, they would be directly in the airflow that is coming under the front wing.

00:55:55 ◼   ► And then on their way up, the smooth glass over the top of the car, they would hit these gigantic windshield wipers.

00:56:00 ◼   ► So instead, the windshield wipers are vertical, so they're not in the airflow that is going to smoothly go over the windshield and through the back of the car.

00:56:07 ◼   ► They're still in the airflow over the A-pillars, but the A-pillars are already there, so they're kind of hiding in that position.

00:56:11 ◼   ► It looks weird.

00:56:12 ◼   ► It looks weird when they're moving.

00:56:14 ◼   ► And I really, the trend I don't like is windshield wipers that are vertical when not in use.

00:56:21 ◼   ► The one that kills me the most is one of my favorite cars, one of my, like, money, no object, what car would you want?

00:56:26 ◼   ► The GMA T50 has one of those windshield wipers that is vertical when not in use, and it's dead in the center of the windshield, just straight up.

00:56:36 ◼   ► What?

00:56:37 ◼   ► When it's a sunny day, that's just vertically straight up in the center of the windshield, right in your field of view, and it's just like, no, no thanks.

00:56:45 ◼   ► I don't like that.

00:56:46 ◼   ► Please stop it.

00:56:46 ◼   ► But yeah, this one, they hit it by the A-pillars.

00:56:49 ◼   ► And I think it screws up the look of the car, because you're always looking at these giant windshield wipers, whereas if they had an integrated little cowl, when it's not raining, you wouldn't even see the windshield wipers.

00:56:57 ◼   ► They'd be hidden away.

00:56:58 ◼   ► But I'm looking at a picture of a GMA T50, and the windshield wipers are horizontally where you would expect them to be, like center mounted.

00:57:05 ◼   ► Maybe I'm thinking of the T33.

00:57:07 ◼   ► I might be off.

00:57:07 ◼   ► One of the GMA cars has a vertical windshield wiper.

00:57:10 ◼   ► Or it might be the T50S or something like that.

00:57:13 ◼   ► Check the T33.

00:57:14 ◼   ► No, it looks like the T33.

00:57:15 ◼   ► I think you're right about that.

00:57:15 ◼   ► I must have been taking the T33.

00:57:16 ◼   ► That is freaking terrible.

00:57:18 ◼   ► Yeah, my bad.

00:57:19 ◼   ► T33 is also, I think that's why, T33 is the car I'd probably rather have, because, oh, the central seating position on a T50 is great.

00:57:25 ◼   ► It's annoying to get in and out of, so I'd probably actually want a T33, but it's got the windshield wiper there.

00:57:29 ◼   ► Yeah, that would kill it for me.

00:57:30 ◼   ► That's like, you know, that's even worse than no car play, as far as I'm concerned.

00:57:33 ◼   ► Here's my take on the exterior of this car.

00:57:34 ◼   ► I agree with what Marco said, that the back of the car looks weird, because it looks like there is, like, a Ferrari 360 or, like, this car 8.

00:57:44 ◼   ► They, I mean, again, you'll have to look at the images to get what this looks like.

00:57:49 ◼   ► But it's like, here's the back of a car, but it's, like, hollow.

00:57:52 ◼   ► And inside it is another little car screaming to get out.

00:57:54 ◼   ► And they emphasize this in some of the design videos.

00:57:56 ◼   ► The official design videos from Ferrari is like, look, we have this kind of, like, the part that is in black, like, this is a two-tone type of thing.

00:58:03 ◼   ► Like, the body is, like, red in these examples, and, like, the canopy is black, and so is the roof is black.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Take off the red part.

00:58:10 ◼   ► And what you have is just this smooth kind of black lozenge that slopes really, really low down on the front and really, really low down on the back.

00:58:16 ◼   ► And then put the red part onto the car, and the red part forms the front wing and the back wing and some side cladding on it or whatever.

00:58:24 ◼   ► So they're emphasizing, like, there's an inner car and an outer car.

00:58:27 ◼   ► And I think in the front, maybe that's okay, although from the side it does look like a literal open mouth.

00:58:33 ◼   ► Like, you can see from the side, the front of this car, the silhouette of this car has a C-shaped mouth at the front that you can see.

00:58:40 ◼   ► Like, literally, there's just nothing there.

00:58:41 ◼   ► It's just, it's a little mouth.

00:58:43 ◼   ► And then the back, it looks like, that's their Nanta Ferrari.

00:58:46 ◼   ► Like, those two, four circular headlights, the 4030 had them and the 360 had them.

00:58:50 ◼   ► I'm not sure if it's been, you know, but that's a Ferrari-ism.

00:58:53 ◼   ► There, that is probably the only part of this car that looks like a Ferrari.

00:58:56 ◼   ► If you're following it at night, you'd be like, oh, is that a Ferrari?

00:58:58 ◼   ► Because you see the headlights.

00:59:00 ◼   ► That's like a signature headlight pattern.

00:59:03 ◼   ► I think it was Casey mentioned the black thing behind the front wheels.

00:59:07 ◼   ► This, I feel like, is one of the worst things on this entire car.

00:59:11 ◼   ► I believe this is a real vent.

00:59:13 ◼   ► It's to relieve pressure from the front wheel wells.

00:59:15 ◼   ► Lots of cars have these.

00:59:16 ◼   ► I'm sure you can think of lots of cars that have things there.

00:59:20 ◼   ► The worst sin of this particular black thing.

00:59:22 ◼   ► Well, first of all, it's, they've emphasized it by not making a body color.

00:59:26 ◼   ► So it stands out more.

00:59:27 ◼   ► And I mean, I can't tell if this is just a trick of the images.

00:59:31 ◼   ► I think it's not a trick.

00:59:32 ◼   ► I think it's a real thing.

00:59:34 ◼   ► Look at it in a dead-on side view.

00:59:36 ◼   ► That black vent thing is not perpendicular with the ground.

00:59:43 ◼   ► It is tilted forward, which means that were you to draw a line from the front of that to

00:59:49 ◼   ► the back of that, it would point upwards, not exactly horizontal.

00:59:52 ◼   ► In other words, when the car is speeding along the road, what you want are like speed lines

00:59:58 ◼   ► that are windswept that are exactly parallel to the ground in the direction of travel.

01:00:02 ◼   ► But this thing leads your eye, not in the direction of travel, but slightly up, like it's tilted

01:00:08 ◼   ► so that it is equidistant from the front cut line for the front door.

01:00:11 ◼   ► But that's not what you want to do.

01:00:12 ◼   ► You want something that makes the car look fast and streamlined.

01:00:14 ◼   ► You don't want it to be canted forward.

01:00:16 ◼   ► You want it to be, look like the wind has shaped it.

01:00:19 ◼   ► What a, what a terrible mistake.

01:00:22 ◼   ► Like it makes the whole front of the car very awkward.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Like I just feel like going to Photoshop, taking that and going like, move it back, rotate

01:00:28 ◼   ► it and just.

01:00:29 ◼   ► That's the least of this car's problems.

01:00:32 ◼   ► It is one of the worst things because this is such a common design element on tons of

01:00:36 ◼   ► tons of cars.

01:00:37 ◼   ► And they found a way to screw it up that I've never seen anyone do before.

01:00:40 ◼   ► Like this, this is emphasized a few times in the interviews, even from Ferrari people.

01:00:45 ◼   ► And I'm like the, the Ferrari's head designer, I forget what his name is.

01:00:49 ◼   ► It makes the point when he's sitting there with Johnny, I have one of the interviews that

01:00:52 ◼   ► like, and don't forget, this is the first car you've ever designed.

01:00:56 ◼   ► It's like, we can tell we can, don't forget you're not car designers.

01:01:00 ◼   ► Like, yeah, no, I know.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Like good.

01:01:02 ◼   ► It's a good for, it's amazing.

01:01:03 ◼   ► First try.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Like, like they're, they're world-class designers, but they're not car designers.

01:01:07 ◼   ► And this car they've designed doesn't look like it was designed by car designers.

01:01:11 ◼   ► And the final thing I'll say for the outside is, because again, we had seen the insider.

01:01:15 ◼   ► We're going to talk about the interior in a little bit, but I don't think I'll say about

01:01:17 ◼   ► the outside is, um, this is not unprecedented territory.

01:01:23 ◼   ► A storied sports car brand wants to make an electric vehicle and it's going to be four doors

01:01:28 ◼   ► to show an example of how you actually do a good job at this Porsche Taycan.

01:01:33 ◼   ► It's from Porsche.

01:01:35 ◼   ► They're known for two door sports cars.

01:01:37 ◼   ► They made a four door electric vehicle and a looks like a Porsche.

01:01:43 ◼   ► B looks really good and C is sporty and fast in a way that Ferrari claims they could not

01:01:50 ◼   ► accomplish.

01:01:51 ◼   ► It's like, no, we couldn't, we couldn't make this a sports car.

01:01:53 ◼   ► Like, yeah, no, you totally could have Porsche did it.

01:01:56 ◼   ► It's there.

01:01:57 ◼   ► Like it's amazingly fast.

01:01:58 ◼   ► It's like, just it's, it is.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And granted that the Taycan has tiny back seats that are not comparable to this and we'll get

01:02:04 ◼   ► to who's going to buy this thing and why.

01:02:05 ◼   ► Right?

01:02:05 ◼   ► Like, so I see maybe it didn't fulfill the design brief, but if you're wondering, can you

01:02:08 ◼   ► do this?

01:02:09 ◼   ► Can a storied sports car brand make an EV and have it be four door and have it be sporty

01:02:15 ◼   ► and fast and desirable?

01:02:16 ◼   ► Yes, they did it.

01:02:17 ◼   ► So it just really burns me up that they decided to go the Johnny Ive direction with this is because

01:02:22 ◼   ► Johnny Ive did not.

01:02:24 ◼   ► I mean, granted that wasn't the goal of this car, I think.

01:02:26 ◼   ► But if you were Ferrari, like as many of the stories about this pointed out, the one time

01:02:32 ◼   ► CEO Ferrari said Ferrari will never make an SUV, also said Ferrari will never make an EV.

01:02:37 ◼   ► He is no longer the CEO of Ferrari.

01:02:39 ◼   ► The new CEO said, hell yes, we're going to make both of those things.

01:02:42 ◼   ► And so they are.

01:02:43 ◼   ► But yeah, I think the exterior of this, it reminds me of Johnny Ive.

01:02:48 ◼   ► It also reminds me that Johnny Ive is not a car designer.

01:02:50 ◼   ► It's not awful, but boy, could it be a lot better.

01:02:53 ◼   ► It's not great.

01:02:55 ◼   ► It's really not great.

01:02:56 ◼   ► I would, maybe not awful, but it's right.

01:02:59 ◼   ► It's towing the line of awful.

01:03:01 ◼   ► It is really freaking bad.

01:03:02 ◼   ► Yeah, and MKBHD had a good slam on this where he posted on threads, Ferrari Luce review on

01:03:09 ◼   ► autofocus coming soon.

01:03:10 ◼   ► And the image he attached to it was a Nissan Leaf because it looks kind of like the Ferrari,

01:03:15 ◼   ► but the Nissan Leaf is kind of ugly.

01:03:18 ◼   ► But that's, I mean, I really think Ferrari is not going to be happy with that post.

01:03:24 ◼   ► That is not what you want to see.

01:03:26 ◼   ► I mean, people have been doing the same thing by showing the Luce in profile next to a Prius,

01:03:31 ◼   ► which again, I don't think you have the scale right because the Prius is way smaller than

01:03:34 ◼   ► this car.

01:03:34 ◼   ► But yeah, it doesn't look like a Ferrari and people aren't looking at it and going, well,

01:03:38 ◼   ► it doesn't look like a Ferrari, but boy, isn't it sexy?

01:03:40 ◼   ► No, they're not saying that.

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01:05:29 ◼   ► That being said, I really like what I've seen of the interior.

01:05:33 ◼   ► Yes.

01:05:34 ◼   ► I feel like this is Johnny Ive doing the things that Johnny Ive should be doing.

01:05:39 ◼   ► And interestingly, it's a lot of tactile buttons.

01:05:43 ◼   ► There's a lot of physical affordances, which I also love.

01:05:47 ◼   ► Well, we did, remember, Casey, we did talk about this on the show.

01:05:50 ◼   ► I know, I know.

01:05:51 ◼   ► But you can reiterate, but I just want to remind you, this is not something we didn't

01:05:54 ◼   ► know.

01:05:54 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I know.

01:05:55 ◼   ► And I mean, it was weird seeing it deconstructed in that San Francisco loft or whatever it was.

01:05:59 ◼   ► But seeing it all put together now, I think it looks really great.

01:06:02 ◼   ► I think they've got a lot of smart, good touches.

01:06:04 ◼   ► And since we've already talked about it, I don't have too much to add that we didn't already

01:06:08 ◼   ► say.

01:06:08 ◼   ► But I think this looks really, really good and really, really smart and a good balance of

01:06:13 ◼   ► touchscreen versus not.

01:06:14 ◼   ► Maybe not perfect, but pretty darn good.

01:06:17 ◼   ► I think I have no notes on this interior.

01:06:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I think, yeah, maybe there's some minor things I would quibble with.

01:06:24 ◼   ► But I think what this shows is, I actually would really like a Johnny Ive interior, you

01:06:30 ◼   ► know, physical.

01:06:30 ◼   ► I mean, you know, please let somebody else do the software.

01:06:32 ◼   ► But like, I would love, like, this actually looks really nice in a lot of ways.

01:06:37 ◼   ► And I'm hoping, you know, obviously, this is going to make some waves.

01:06:43 ◼   ► I don't think this is going to be a big deal.

01:06:44 ◼   ► But I think it's going to make some waves in, like, the car design world.

01:06:47 ◼   ► And it's going to make people say, huh, and, you know, discount it or whatever.

01:06:51 ◼   ► But some people are going to say, hmm, maybe that's a good idea.

01:06:53 ◼   ► And some people are going to think it's cool.

01:06:55 ◼   ► And what I hope happens is that maybe this gets some other car designers at some other

01:07:02 ◼   ► companies to finally realize, hmm, maybe physical controls can be cool again.

01:07:10 ◼   ► Because right now, we've gone so far in the other direction.

01:07:13 ◼   ► And we have all these, like, totally minimal, all screens, everything's on the tuck screen

01:07:20 ◼   ► vehicles, especially in the EV world.

01:07:22 ◼   ► Every time I have to go into a menu to change my fan speed, I'm just like, this is not the

01:07:28 ◼   ► right solution to this problem.

01:07:30 ◼   ► You know, like, I'm hoping that maybe, maybe this will just tilt the influence a little

01:07:36 ◼   ► tiny bit back towards more knobs and buttons for common controls, because that is just better.

01:07:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:44 ◼   ► We talked about this whole interior on the past program that hopefully will be in the show

01:07:48 ◼   ► notes.

01:07:48 ◼   ► I don't have anything particularly new to say about the specifics there.

01:07:51 ◼   ► I'll just reiterate a few things, which is that I think going with a rounded rectangle

01:07:57 ◼   ► for the instrument cluster, the center screen, and both aspects of the central, like, armrest

01:08:05 ◼   ► area is a little bit of Johnny Ive punting.

01:08:07 ◼   ► I know you like rounded rectangles, dude.

01:08:08 ◼   ► Just like, come on, there's other shapes in the world.

01:08:10 ◼   ► Seeing the rest of the design, like, that connects those pieces that we saw disembodied, the rest

01:08:15 ◼   ► of the design seems fine.

01:08:17 ◼   ► I think the, um, I mean, this really emphasizes one of my, uh, complaints from the, the, uh,

01:08:24 ◼   ► earlier episode about the interior and that, um, you know, really a big central iPad with

01:08:28 ◼   ► a handle to point it.

01:08:29 ◼   ► That's your best idea for the middle thing.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Now that you see where it, where it plugs into the dash of the car, it just emphasizes

01:08:35 ◼   ► even further because the physical, uh, switches for like the climate control and stuff, setting

01:08:42 ◼   ► sign that there are toggle switches that could probably stab people when they have little

01:08:44 ◼   ► guards in them for safety reasons, but still not a great idea.

01:08:47 ◼   ► Um, it makes this whole point of like, look, you know, if the passenger wants to use the

01:08:51 ◼   ► screen, they can point it towards them.

01:08:52 ◼   ► And the driver wants, they can point it towards them.

01:08:53 ◼   ► I don't want to be fighting over the screen, going back and forth.

01:08:56 ◼   ► One way to solve this problem is to have the climate, physical climate controls, which I

01:09:00 ◼   ► give a thumbs up to, to have those physical climate controls in a fixed position in the

01:09:05 ◼   ► center console of the car that's equally reachable by the driver and passenger.

01:09:08 ◼   ► That's what most other well-designed cards do, but here they put it on the iPad, which

01:09:12 ◼   ► means that if you're yanking that iPad back and forth, the climate

01:09:14 ◼   ► controls are going back and forth.

01:09:15 ◼   ► So if the driver is looking something on the screen or whatever, like navigation, because

01:09:20 ◼   ► the instrument cluster doesn't really have the same, it's not all one screen.

01:09:23 ◼   ► So if you, if you have the big navigation screen up, the driver wants to point it towards them,

01:09:26 ◼   ► but now the passenger wants to adjust the climate control.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Maybe they want to point it back towards them.

01:09:29 ◼   ► And now you're fighting over the screen again, solve that problem, put them in a fixed position.

01:09:32 ◼   ► They're easier to find.

01:09:32 ◼   ► They're easier to reach.

01:09:33 ◼   ► Just, they don't need to be on the screen, but he was so wedded with, oh, the screen's going

01:09:37 ◼   ► to have all the stuff like that.

01:09:39 ◼   ► The steering wheel is for input and that central screen is for output, except for when it's

01:09:42 ◼   ► for input, but also there's this weird lozenge cavity where you can put stuff in the middle.

01:09:47 ◼   ► It's like this little cave where you do the phone charging and stuff.

01:09:49 ◼   ► I just, some aspects of this, same aspects of interior I complained about before I continued

01:09:54 ◼   ► to complain about.

01:09:55 ◼   ► The rest of it that I didn't see, like the door and the interior and the top of the dash

01:09:59 ◼   ► and stuff, that's all reasonable.

01:10:01 ◼   ► I don't know, I think the door pockets are that reasonable, but you know, it's fine.

01:10:05 ◼   ► I like that there's a footwell gap underneath the, uh, the center console and the rear seat.

01:10:10 ◼   ► So the center rear seat passenger can fit their feet in there.

01:10:12 ◼   ► I don't like that that thing juts out so that the center rear seat person gets it into their

01:10:16 ◼   ► shins.

01:10:16 ◼   ► But you know, uh, you win some, you lose some.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Um, the main thing I think about when I see this interior, oh, I forgot the steering wheel

01:10:23 ◼   ► that I also complained about that has a flat bottom.

01:10:25 ◼   ► I was reminded of this today.

01:10:26 ◼   ► I was watching a review of the, uh, the Chevy Bolt, the Chevy's $30,000 EV.

01:10:32 ◼   ► It's like they're, you know, one of the cheapest EVs you can get extremely inexpensive for an

01:10:37 ◼   ► EV, a very small, inexpensive car.

01:10:39 ◼   ► And I was looking at the steering wheel.

01:10:41 ◼   ► I'm like, oh man, Chevy, you didn't, you didn't.

01:10:42 ◼   ► Yeah, they did.

01:10:43 ◼   ► It's a Chevy Bolt has a round steering wheel, except it's very bottom.

01:10:47 ◼   ► They're like, you know what?

01:10:48 ◼   ► It's a little bit flat.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Just like they're just flat enough so that you can just flat enough to be annoying when

01:10:53 ◼   ► the wheel slips through your hands.

01:10:54 ◼   ► Like why Chevy?

01:10:55 ◼   ► But I believe Chevy, if you can't put the zero to 60 in seven seconds, $30,000 EV, you

01:11:02 ◼   ► can have a round steering wheel.

01:11:03 ◼   ► Please, somebody.

01:11:04 ◼   ► Anyway, um, I promise as someone with a flat bottom wheel, I am not saying that you shouldn't

01:11:11 ◼   ► prefer a circle, but that's all I'm saying.

01:11:14 ◼   ► I'm not saying it's terrible.

01:11:15 ◼   ► I'm just saying like, why, like why make it a little bit worse?

01:11:17 ◼   ► Why?

01:11:17 ◼   ► I get it.

01:11:18 ◼   ► It's like, cause it's race cars have like, I understand the lineage, but it's become an

01:11:22 ◼   ► epidemic.

01:11:22 ◼   ► People need to come back to round steering wheels.

01:11:23 ◼   ► You're not, especially in this car.

01:11:24 ◼   ► It's so vast inside.

01:11:26 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Anyway, here's what I think this interior will do.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And I could have said this before with when we saw just the interior by itself, but seeing

01:11:33 ◼   ► it all together is to emphasize it further.

01:11:35 ◼   ► Um, I doubt there will be another car interior, including another car interior from Ferrari

01:11:41 ◼   ► that has the level of fit and finish that this interior has simply because that's, that's

01:11:47 ◼   ► what Johnny Ive does.

01:11:48 ◼   ► And guess what?

01:11:48 ◼   ► His budget was apparently 650 grand, right?

01:11:51 ◼   ► like, but you have to keep the car below a million go Johnny.

01:11:55 ◼   ► You will not see in like, even in Ferraris, even a million dollar Ferraris, just help look

01:12:01 ◼   ► at any of the existing Ferraris that are more expensive than this one.

01:12:04 ◼   ► The switches don't look as good.

01:12:05 ◼   ► The switches don't feel as good.

01:12:07 ◼   ► The hardware is not like this thing is made like a, like a Swiss watch because that's what

01:12:12 ◼   ► he wanted to do.

01:12:13 ◼   ► And he had the budget to do it.

01:12:15 ◼   ► And you will not see that again.

01:12:16 ◼   ► And this is not a lesson I think car makers will take from this because look at a Rolls

01:12:20 ◼   ► Royce or Bentley interior.

01:12:21 ◼   ► They have nice interiors, but their switches are not as good as the switches in this car.

01:12:26 ◼   ► Like, like nothing, like this is a level of fit and finish for interior mechanical stuff

01:12:33 ◼   ► that no one else is going to do.

01:12:35 ◼   ► They probably shouldn't do it.

01:12:36 ◼   ► They probably can't do it because who has the budget for this?

01:12:39 ◼   ► Probably only Ferrari and a $650,000 car.

01:12:42 ◼   ► But this is an important moment in time to say, like, especially if they don't contract

01:12:47 ◼   ► with them to do like future versions of this car or whatever, watch Ferrari decontent this

01:12:51 ◼   ► interior, man.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Like watch them just go, okay, well, we don't need the cutouts in the screen.

01:12:54 ◼   ► We can get the switch a little bit cheaper from a different vendor.

01:12:56 ◼   ► That stupid glass shift knob.

01:12:58 ◼   ► We don't need that.

01:12:59 ◼   ► The thing where the color goes out of the key into that.

01:13:00 ◼   ► We don't need that.

01:13:01 ◼   ► Like watch it get decontent decontenting on a 650 grand car.

01:13:05 ◼   ► It will happen because no car maker wants to put this much money into the interior.

01:13:09 ◼   ► And the only reason it happened here, this is a moment in time.

01:13:12 ◼   ► Where a person with massive power was given the reins of a company with huge history.

01:13:17 ◼   ► And they said, basically, make the car for us.

01:13:20 ◼   ► Here's the four wheels, the chassis, and the battery.

01:13:22 ◼   ► Everything else, you can more or less do what you want.

01:13:24 ◼   ► And he did.

01:13:25 ◼   ► And his company did it.

01:13:27 ◼   ► And some of the most talented designers ever to work in the world, some of the most talented

01:13:30 ◼   ► designers from Apple made an interior where the individual elements are amazing.

01:13:36 ◼   ► Cohesively, altogether, I don't think it's a amazing car interior, but it's sure better

01:13:40 ◼   ► than a lot of other ones, just like in broad strokes.

01:13:42 ◼   ► But in the individual, on the close-up, let's zoom in on the switch and feel it.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Let's see how, like, it's without equal.

01:13:48 ◼   ► I don't think I've seen it.

01:13:49 ◼   ► Like, again, I don't think I've seen a Rolls Royce or a Bentley that has switch gear that

01:13:53 ◼   ► is as nice as this.

01:13:53 ◼   ► The only question I have is, and I have this question about my Pro Display XDR stand as

01:13:58 ◼   ► well.

01:13:58 ◼   ► Sometimes in a very expensive Apple hardware, like my literal $1,000 stand that is holding

01:14:06 ◼   ► up this monitor, it has aluminum rubbing against aluminum as part of the mechanism.

01:14:12 ◼   ► And I don't think that feels or sounds good.

01:14:15 ◼   ► It's very precise.

01:14:16 ◼   ► It's very expensive.

01:14:17 ◼   ► It's very smooth.

01:14:19 ◼   ► There's no play in it.

01:14:20 ◼   ► You know, you push it and it stays where you want it to go.

01:14:23 ◼   ► But it doesn't feel that nice.

01:14:26 ◼   ► It doesn't feel, first of all, it's not lubricated, which is part of it.

01:14:29 ◼   ► It's not like, you know, polished steel over polished steel with, like, oil between it or

01:14:34 ◼   ► something.

01:14:34 ◼   ► It doesn't feel like that.

01:14:35 ◼   ► It feels a little scrapey.

01:14:36 ◼   ► And I look at the air vents, which look very cool.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Like, you twist this solid, you twist this machined aluminum thing and this machined aluminum

01:14:45 ◼   ► air vent thing turns, which, again, I think is not the best way to regulate airflow because

01:14:50 ◼   ► it is not very granular.

01:14:51 ◼   ► But it looks cool.

01:14:53 ◼   ► And that mechanism, as cool as it is, I see them using it and I'm like, that sounds like

01:14:58 ◼   ► my Pro Display XDR stand.

01:14:59 ◼   ► And it's not as pleasing as you would think of it.

01:15:01 ◼   ► I might be wrong because I haven't touched this car and I might just be imagining things,

01:15:04 ◼   ► but I think aluminum rubbing on aluminum is not that great.

01:15:06 ◼   ► And Johnny apparently disagrees with me.

01:15:08 ◼   ► But anyway, this interior is, you know, it's probably singular.

01:15:13 ◼   ► And it's worth like, if you ever encounter one of these, you should ask the citizen and

01:15:18 ◼   ► play with the switches because that is a thing you will never be able to do in any other car.

01:15:22 ◼   ► And that is probably its greatest strength.

01:15:25 ◼   ► And I'm with Marco that I hope other people see this and say, hey, we should have physical

01:15:30 ◼   ► controls in our car.

01:15:30 ◼   ► But it's not as if this is unknown.

01:15:32 ◼   ► Every carmaker for the past decade should know, yeah, people are rebelling against having

01:15:37 ◼   ► only touchscreens.

01:15:38 ◼   ► But the countervailing force is, but it's so much cheaper to not do that and screw the users.

01:15:43 ◼   ► That's exactly it.

01:15:44 ◼   ► Like, because that's the reason why Tesla started that way.

01:15:48 ◼   ► And the reason why everyone copied them is because it is cheaper.

01:15:51 ◼   ► What Tesla had to do when they started was figure out how to sell a very, very expensive battery

01:15:59 ◼   ► in a car that looked like it was as expensive as gas cars.

01:16:04 ◼   ► You know, they had to, like, match the price of this very expensive battery to the market

01:16:08 ◼   ► of whoever, you know, whatever car they could fit in, which meant they had to basically sell

01:16:14 ◼   ► a $100,000 car that mostly had the parts of a $30,000 car.

01:16:20 ◼   ► And so they had to find a lot of different ways to, you know, some might say cheap out.

01:16:26 ◼   ► They would probably say simplify or reinvent.

01:16:28 ◼   ► But they had to do everything else about the car very, very cheaply.

01:16:32 ◼   ► And they did.

01:16:33 ◼   ► And it worked.

01:16:33 ◼   ► Well, look at the rest of the industry.

01:16:35 ◼   ► Now, everyone is like, oh, the futuristic EVs.

01:16:39 ◼   ► Now, everything should be screens.

01:16:41 ◼   ► Everything's on the touch screen.

01:16:42 ◼   ► Look how elegant and minimal and simple it is.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Yeah, it's also cheap.

01:16:47 ◼   ► What tends to happen in, like, you know, corporate America is whatever is cheaper, they'll find

01:16:54 ◼   ► a way to sell it to you with marketing.

01:16:56 ◼   ► So they sell it as minimal and futuristic and everything.

01:16:59 ◼   ► But the reason is because it's cheaper.

01:17:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:02 ◼   ► And to be clear, this interior is not cheap.

01:17:04 ◼   ► This is the opposite of cheap.

01:17:05 ◼   ► Even their screens are ridiculously expensive because they punch all these holes in them and

01:17:08 ◼   ► putting these incredibly expensive little controls in them.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Money is no object for this interior.

01:17:11 ◼   ► To your point before, Marco, about, like, maybe people will see this and start using

01:17:16 ◼   ► physical controls.

01:17:17 ◼   ► I think the aspect where this helps move in that direction is to the extent that this interior

01:17:23 ◼   ► is well-received by the automotive press and that this car and this car's interior become

01:17:32 ◼   ► known as cool.

01:17:34 ◼   ► Because you can say all that you want, like, oh, users are demanding that you have more

01:17:38 ◼   ► physical controls and they'll grudgingly kind of sort of add them back.

01:17:40 ◼   ► But if this car can help nudge physical controls in the direction of cool, that's where it will

01:17:47 ◼   ► help.

01:17:47 ◼   ► I'm not sure it can.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Maybe it can't because, A, no one will ever see this car in B, it's not actually that cool

01:17:52 ◼   ► looking.

01:17:52 ◼   ► The inside looks kind of dorky.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Oh, I forgot to mention on the outside.

01:17:54 ◼   ► My real fear for this was that it would look like a lot of the fan renders of what the

01:17:58 ◼   ► Apple car would look like.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Like, just like this big sort of, like, Volkswagen bus lozenge that you can't tell if it goes

01:18:03 ◼   ► forward or backwards.

01:18:04 ◼   ► And luckily it doesn't look like that.

01:18:05 ◼   ► So it could have been worse.

01:18:06 ◼   ► But yeah, the inside still looks like, do-do-do, I'm not a Ferrari.

01:18:10 ◼   ► I'm just like a, you know, it looks like a Fiat interior or a mini interior or something

01:18:15 ◼   ► like that.

01:18:15 ◼   ► Like, it has such a strange character.

01:18:17 ◼   ► So I'm not sure if this will advance the cool, but the fact that it isn't a Ferrari

01:18:19 ◼   ► maybe will.

01:18:20 ◼   ► So maybe people will imitate that a little bit more.

01:18:24 ◼   ► The things that we'll link in here are, they gave a bunch of, they gave press a tour of

01:18:31 ◼   ► the car stationary where they could just walk around and go in it and film stuff.

01:18:34 ◼   ► Although MKBHD's non-driving tour, which we'll link to in the notes, he complained the whole

01:18:40 ◼   ► time about the stupid, like, camera on a gimbal they forced him to use.

01:18:44 ◼   ► He wasn't allowed to use his own equipment and the stupid camera on the gimbal had a mind

01:18:47 ◼   ► of its own and kept looking at the wrong thing.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Love to see him be cranky about having to use their crappy tools.

01:18:51 ◼   ► And what a dumb decision that was by Ferrari to not let him use his own equipment.

01:18:55 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

01:18:56 ◼   ► There's also the Cleo Abram interview with Johnny Ive and Ferrari's chief designer, Flavio Manzoni.

01:19:01 ◼   ► This was painful and it was not Cleo's fault.

01:19:04 ◼   ► I don't, I think, I watched it after hearing you complain about it, Casey, and I thought it

01:19:10 ◼   ► was not as bad as, I mean, Johnny Ive does occasionally go off into the mode where he is saying words

01:19:15 ◼   ► that don't mean anything, which is fine.

01:19:17 ◼   ► That's his thing, like whatever.

01:19:18 ◼   ► That's most Johnny Ive.

01:19:20 ◼   ► But Flavio Manzoni was fun and a little bit spicy.

01:19:24 ◼   ► The only thing I'll for Cleo, Cleo had lots of good questions.

01:19:27 ◼   ► I'm not familiar with her work, but she had lots of good questions in this interview.

01:19:30 ◼   ► She's also not a car journalist, so kudos for her to doing such a good job.

01:19:33 ◼   ► My only note to Cleo is maybe don't include the parts where the people you were interviewing

01:19:37 ◼   ► say how wonderful you are.

01:19:38 ◼   ► Just let your wonderfulness shine through.

01:19:39 ◼   ► You don't need to put the clips of them saying it in the video.

01:19:41 ◼   ► You can just save them for yourself.

01:19:43 ◼   ► Now, I think the thing that bothered me is, and I don't know if this is a design thing,

01:19:46 ◼   ► I don't know if this is an Apple design thing, but the two of them particularly, Johnny, were

01:19:52 ◼   ► so high on their own supply.

01:19:54 ◼   ► They were just, it was like watching them fart and go, like it was just ridiculous how much

01:20:03 ◼   ► they're like, we're changing the world, not a direct quote, but we're changing the world

01:20:07 ◼   ► with this.

01:20:08 ◼   ► It's amazing.

01:20:08 ◼   ► And it's like, I get that this is basically marketing.

01:20:11 ◼   ► I get that they're of course going to talk it up, but like, cheesy peasy, keep your feet

01:20:16 ◼   ► on the ground, fellas.

01:20:17 ◼   ► My word.

01:20:18 ◼   ► Like, it's a car.

01:20:19 ◼   ► Johnny Ive has never had a foot on the ground.

01:20:21 ◼   ► I thought it wasn't as bad in that regard as some of the other things I've seen from Johnny

01:20:24 ◼   ► Ive.

01:20:25 ◼   ► For example, the open AI bar thing was worse than this.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Oh, that was the pinnacle of bad.

01:20:29 ◼   ► Right.

01:20:30 ◼   ► Golly.

01:20:30 ◼   ► And I thought Johnny was pretty constrained in what he said.

01:20:33 ◼   ► And actually that, yeah, I'm willing to the Cleo Abrams interview.

01:20:36 ◼   ► It's 45 minutes long, but it's worth at least scrubbing the parts where they have the interview.

01:20:40 ◼   ► One of my favorite parts was when Johnny gets into the car with Cleo and they're talking

01:20:45 ◼   ► to each other about the car.

01:20:46 ◼   ► Johnny's in the driver's seat, which I thought was interesting.

01:20:49 ◼   ► I feel like if you're, if you're doing the interview, I guess you let him sit in the

01:20:52 ◼   ► driver's seat, but then you don't get to play with the wheel.

01:20:54 ◼   ► Anyway, here's one of the things he said, and this will lead me into the next segment

01:20:58 ◼   ► here, which is, uh, I forgot what the question was.

01:21:02 ◼   ► The question that was asked was, but Johnny's response was for some reason, just because

01:21:07 ◼   ► the power source is electric, there is some assumption that the interface should be digital.

01:21:11 ◼   ► And that's a huge leap.

01:21:12 ◼   ► And I think it's presumptuous.

01:21:14 ◼   ► And this, that is 100% true.

01:21:16 ◼   ► We talked about it many times in the show.

01:21:18 ◼   ► When people are making an EV, when car makers are making EV, especially when EVs were new,

01:21:22 ◼   ► something goes off in their brain and says, well, this is an EV.

01:21:25 ◼   ► It's got to be futurey and weird.

01:21:26 ◼   ► And we can't just do normal stuff because it's an EV.

01:21:28 ◼   ► And there's some excuse for that in the early days because you have to get people excited about

01:21:33 ◼   ► EVs and they damn well better look futurey because why else is someone going to buy it?

01:21:36 ◼   ► But we're well past that point now.

01:21:37 ◼   ► So Johnny highlights that point, which leads me to my EV stupidity checklist, which I should

01:21:44 ◼   ► formalize.

01:21:45 ◼   ► This is incredible.

01:21:46 ◼   ► I'm obviously cheating because I'm looking at our internal show notes.

01:21:49 ◼   ► We're not going to put all this listing in the external show notes, the ones that you

01:21:53 ◼   ► all can see, but I am so excited for this.

01:21:55 ◼   ► This is incredible work.

01:21:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:56 ◼   ► And this is the thing.

01:21:57 ◼   ► Whenever EVs come up, every car review, this is not just like a thing that every car review

01:22:01 ◼   ► will look at and note these things, but I don't see enough people saying, hey, it's

01:22:05 ◼   ► no longer okay when car makers make an EV to just give them a pass on the stupid things

01:22:10 ◼   ► that they do.

01:22:11 ◼   ► Like it's well past time to say, stop doing these things.

01:22:13 ◼   ► They're bad and stupid.

01:22:14 ◼   ► And it gets, you know, it's even worse if your car is $650,000 car because then you kind

01:22:19 ◼   ► of can't use cost as your excuse.

01:22:20 ◼   ► So here we go.

01:22:21 ◼   ► Doors.

01:22:22 ◼   ► We know that on EVs, you got to screw up the doors.

01:22:26 ◼   ► They kind of already did that.

01:22:26 ◼   ► We talked about it with the rear hinge doors.

01:22:28 ◼   ► Like that is one aspect of screwing it up.

01:22:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:31 ◼   ► Number, the number one thing is like it, when, when someone, a guest approaches the door that

01:22:35 ◼   ► you're picking up somewhere, will they be able to figure out how to open it?

01:22:39 ◼   ► Yep.

01:22:39 ◼   ► And so that's the first item.

01:22:41 ◼   ► Exterior door handles are readily accessible.

01:22:43 ◼   ► Yes or no.

01:22:44 ◼   ► And guess what?

01:22:45 ◼   ► The, uh, the, uh, Luce does an okay job.

01:22:49 ◼   ► I think if someone came up to this car, they'd have a decent shot, especially in daylight of

01:22:53 ◼   ► finding where the handles are because they are centrally located.

01:22:57 ◼   ► They have cut lines on them.

01:22:59 ◼   ► So they're obviously handles as the many reviews point out the way they're designed.

01:23:04 ◼   ► They may collect snow and ice, but it's Johnny's first car.

01:23:07 ◼   ► Maybe he didn't think about winter.

01:23:08 ◼   ► See San Francisco, right?

01:23:10 ◼   ► Maybe he didn't think about snow and ice, but it does have handles that you can see with

01:23:14 ◼   ► your eyeballs.

01:23:15 ◼   ► And that are clearly, they have to be the only things that are handles because like,

01:23:19 ◼   ► where else would you do?

01:23:19 ◼   ► So I think I'm giving him a, a, a, a thumbs up on that one.

01:23:22 ◼   ► You did it.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Okay.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Thumbs down, unfortunately on physical door opening mechanism.

01:23:27 ◼   ► Basically the question is if I find the handle on the car and I pull on it, does it physically

01:23:34 ◼   ► make the door open?

01:23:35 ◼   ► That's important for two reasons.

01:23:37 ◼   ► One, software bugs should not cause you not to be able to get into your car.

01:23:41 ◼   ► How many people with EV owners, EV reviews say for some period of time, I could not get

01:23:47 ◼   ► into my car because even though I pressed the button or pulled the handle or whatever, that

01:23:50 ◼   ► all that handle does is actuate a switch that sends a signal where some software is supposed

01:23:54 ◼   ► to unlock the door and it's not doing it for some reason.

01:23:56 ◼   ► Just this week, I was watching a review on a current EV.

01:24:00 ◼   ► That's like, this company's like ninth EV.

01:24:01 ◼   ► I forget which one it was.

01:24:02 ◼   ► It might've been a Volkswagen or something.

01:24:03 ◼   ► And they were saying at one point they, they had to stop the review because they couldn't

01:24:07 ◼   ► open the driver's side door.

01:24:09 ◼   ► They had the key.

01:24:10 ◼   ► They had everything.

01:24:11 ◼   ► Everything was fine.

01:24:11 ◼   ► But when they pulled on the little thing that's supposed to open the door, all it was doing

01:24:15 ◼   ► is hitting a switch and that switch was not opening the door.

01:24:17 ◼   ► If you can make it a hundred percent reliable, sure, go for it.

01:24:21 ◼   ► But obviously we can't as a society make a hundred percent reliable.

01:24:25 ◼   ► So therefore I'm going to say make the door opening mechanism either entirely physical from

01:24:31 ◼   ► the outside or it's software.

01:24:34 ◼   ► But then if you pull farther on that very same handle, it's physical.

01:24:37 ◼   ► And the Luce fails on this on the exterior and the interior, because now we can see what

01:24:43 ◼   ► the interior door handles look like.

01:24:45 ◼   ► And guess what they look like?

01:24:46 ◼   ► A circular, beautifully machined button that's probably incredibly satisfying to hit, but

01:24:52 ◼   ► is nevertheless a button.

01:24:53 ◼   ► I don't even know if there's a physical way.

01:24:55 ◼   ► And for the both the interior and the exterior handles, there is also the safety aspect, which

01:25:02 ◼   ► is if you're trapped in a car and need to get out, is there a physical way for you to get

01:25:05 ◼   ► out?

01:25:05 ◼   ► Or if someone is trying to get you out of a car from the outside and your car has just

01:25:09 ◼   ► crashed, is there a physical handle that they can open?

01:25:11 ◼   ► Again, physical handles can get stuck to like it's not a guarantee, but there have been too

01:25:16 ◼   ► many situations where someone is in an accident and either they can't get out or someone can't

01:25:20 ◼   ► get to them because of an electronic gremlin or malfunction or whatever, whereas physical

01:25:23 ◼   ► door handles give you a more fighting chance.

01:25:26 ◼   ► And it's not because they're inherently superior.

01:25:27 ◼   ► It's because we've been making physical door handles on cars for what, a hundred and something

01:25:31 ◼   ► years.

01:25:32 ◼   ► We've gotten really good at it.

01:25:34 ◼   ► We've just started making electronic handles for doors and we suck at it.

01:25:38 ◼   ► And so that's, I'm not saying you can never do this, but I'm saying have a physical, have

01:25:43 ◼   ► it like the ones where it's like it's electronic, but then if you keep pulling that exact same

01:25:46 ◼   ► handle, it's physical, do that until you can get the electronics 100%.

01:25:49 ◼   ► That's all I'm saying.

01:25:50 ◼   ► And speaking of the word affordance, which Casey uses correctly most of the time, but occasionally

01:25:56 ◼   ► not, I thought I would put the link to the definition in Wikipedia here, use it in this

01:26:00 ◼   ► very episode.

01:26:01 ◼   ► I think like three or four times every time you use it, I'm like, wow, I'm racking up

01:26:03 ◼   ► your percentages.

01:26:04 ◼   ► You got it right.

01:26:05 ◼   ► I think one or two thirds of the time in this episode.

01:26:07 ◼   ► Great.

01:26:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:09 ◼   ► Affordance, according to this Wikipedia definition is in design, affordance refers to the possible

01:26:14 ◼   ► actions that an actor can readily perceive.

01:26:17 ◼   ► So Marco just hit the nail on the head when he said, when someone walks up to a car, the

01:26:22 ◼   ► affordance is, can that person readily perceive that they can open this door?

01:26:27 ◼   ► In other words, do they see a handle?

01:26:29 ◼   ► Does something say, oh, I know when I walk up to this car, I have to pull on that to open

01:26:34 ◼   ► this door.

01:26:35 ◼   ► That is a readily perceived thing that lets you know what your possible actions are.

01:26:41 ◼   ► This is a door I can open.

01:26:42 ◼   ► And one of the examples you always give in these design books is like, uh, doors that

01:26:46 ◼   ► are like, you know, push pull doors where the push side has a flat plate is like, Hey, I

01:26:51 ◼   ► know I should push this door because it's got a flat plate and saying, shove the palm in your

01:26:55 ◼   ► hand against this plate and you will push the other side of the door would have a pull handle

01:26:59 ◼   ► where it's like a little, you know, hook shaped handle.

01:27:01 ◼   ► It's saying this is not for pushing, grab this handle and pull it.

01:27:04 ◼   ► Those are affordances because you look at them and you know what you can do with the door.

01:27:09 ◼   ► And that's why when you put someone puts a door in backwards and they have the push

01:27:11 ◼   ► plate on the pull side that it confuses people, that's an affordance.

01:27:15 ◼   ► This car has exterior affordances and it's door handles.

01:27:18 ◼   ► I think if you look on the outside and you see that little part with a little cut line,

01:27:22 ◼   ► it's clear that it probably wants you to pull it interior, no affordance.

01:27:26 ◼   ► You have to know where the button is.

01:27:27 ◼   ► And this drives me, this drives everyone nuts.

01:27:30 ◼   ► Who's who's in my car because just like the exterior, you also have to figure out how do

01:27:36 ◼   ► I get out of this car?

01:27:38 ◼   ► Which I think from like an emergency perspective should be even more obvious and not by a small

01:27:44 ◼   ► amount.

01:27:44 ◼   ► Like that should be significantly regulated and required to have like a common recognizable

01:27:51 ◼   ► fast mechanical mechanism to get out of a car.

01:27:55 ◼   ► That's incredibly important for safety.

01:27:57 ◼   ► And you think you wouldn't think you need to legislate because you're like, well, we've

01:28:01 ◼   ► been making door handles for like, again, a hundred years or more.

01:28:04 ◼   ► Like we know how to do it.

01:28:06 ◼   ► It's a solved problem.

01:28:06 ◼   ► And to that end, there was even a Saturday Night Live sketch where we'll link in the show notes

01:28:10 ◼   ► about this very it was the angle on it was like you're out for a night of fun and then

01:28:15 ◼   ► you call an Uber to take you home and you can't get out of the Uber.

01:28:18 ◼   ► And the driver's like, just just push.

01:28:20 ◼   ► And you're like, oh, no, that's that's the window.

01:28:21 ◼   ► Like, and part of the part of the song lyrics is this was a solved problem.

01:28:27 ◼   ► Like and it's not because like, oh, old people can't figure out newfangled door handles.

01:28:31 ◼   ► It's like there have been decades and decades and generation of generation of door handles.

01:28:35 ◼   ► Every generation, one after the other, my generation, my parents generation, my grandparents

01:28:39 ◼   ► generation, all of them with all the cars they ever owned, figuring out how to get out

01:28:43 ◼   ► of the car using the handle has not been a problem.

01:28:46 ◼   ► Like we solved it.

01:28:47 ◼   ► We know how to we know where to put the handle.

01:28:49 ◼   ► We know how to shape them.

01:28:50 ◼   ► So people know when they look at them, what they need to do to them.

01:28:52 ◼   ► They're mechanical.

01:28:54 ◼   ► They open the door.

01:28:55 ◼   ► EVs come and everyone loses their minds and they're like, nope.

01:28:58 ◼   ► Can we hide a button somewhere?

01:29:00 ◼   ► Guys, guys, this is a solved problem.

01:29:04 ◼   ► You're not adding to the wow factor of your car by having electric door popper hidden in some

01:29:09 ◼   ► place.

01:29:09 ◼   ► And then this I think in the backseat, this one has the thing where it's like I just said where

01:29:13 ◼   ► it's like a physical thing where you pull it up a little bit and opens it and you keep

01:29:16 ◼   ► pulling and it's physical.

01:29:16 ◼   ► But even that is well hidden in the interface.

01:29:19 ◼   ► It should be way more obvious.

01:29:21 ◼   ► There should be an affordance for opening a door.

01:29:24 ◼   ► I don't know why people are forgetting how to do this.

01:29:26 ◼   ► So I'm going to give them a thumbs down on the interior where they totally screwed up by

01:29:30 ◼   ► having a button on the exterior.

01:29:31 ◼   ► I give them, I don't know, some some sideways because they kind of sort of did.

01:29:35 ◼   ► I can't tell if the exterior ones are physical at all.

01:29:37 ◼   ► I think they're entirely electronic, but I'm not entirely sure.

01:29:40 ◼   ► And I can just say like as an owner of a car with an interior button to open doors, there

01:29:46 ◼   ► is nothing more embarrassing than when I have to apologize for the design of my car to every

01:29:52 ◼   ► new passenger who is ever in it as they struggle to figure out how to get out of my car because

01:29:58 ◼   ► the design is stupid because they had to go and redesign door handles, not only on the outside,

01:30:04 ◼   ► but also on the inside.

01:30:06 ◼   ► And continuing on that vein, the charge port, EVs obviously have a charge port.

01:30:12 ◼   ► And one thing they love to do is come up with the most ridiculous possible mechanism for

01:30:17 ◼   ► revealing the charge port.

01:30:19 ◼   ► Really complicated mechanisms where like the door goes in and slides up to a hidden cavity

01:30:24 ◼   ► and comes down.

01:30:25 ◼   ► It's like, again, this problem has been solved.

01:30:27 ◼   ► I know you have electrons and not gasoline, but in the end, it is a hole inside of your car

01:30:33 ◼   ► where you stick a thing with a little door over it.

01:30:36 ◼   ► We've solved that problem a million times over.

01:30:39 ◼   ► Like, and this is the type of thing where like I've had physical, like the thing that goes over

01:30:44 ◼   ► the gas, what, you know, what do you call it?

01:30:46 ◼   ► Gas port.

01:30:47 ◼   ► I keep, I'm so instant.

01:30:48 ◼   ► Yeah, the gas hole, the gas hole.

01:30:50 ◼   ► That's right.

01:30:51 ◼   ► That's right.

01:30:52 ◼   ► I've had that get stuck on physical mechanisms.

01:30:53 ◼   ► It's not like physical mechanisms can't get stuck, but we've had so many years to perfect

01:30:59 ◼   ► the design of that mechanism that it's pretty reliable and pretty cheap.

01:31:02 ◼   ► But when an EV comes out, they're like, no, we can't have that open physically.

01:31:06 ◼   ► It has to be an electric mechanism.

01:31:09 ◼   ► And I think through the decades that we've had any kind of electrical mechanism in cars

01:31:15 ◼   ► for like some tiny little thing that used to use physically, but we're going to make it

01:31:18 ◼   ► move by a motor.

01:31:19 ◼   ► Those things are more likely to fail.

01:31:21 ◼   ► Now we've gotten good at some of them.

01:31:22 ◼   ► Electric windows and electric seats are close to as reliable as their physical counterparts.

01:31:27 ◼   ► Not exactly, but close.

01:31:29 ◼   ► But the charge ports that open electronically, especially the ones that have like a capacitive

01:31:33 ◼   ► surface that they want you to swipe or something on the outside of the car, a lot of the ones

01:31:37 ◼   ► have like, run your finger along this little fin and it will open the charge port.

01:31:41 ◼   ► It's like, no, stop.

01:31:42 ◼   ► Don't.

01:31:42 ◼   ► Don't.

01:31:43 ◼   ► Like, make it so you go push in the corner of it and it pops out.

01:31:46 ◼   ► Or make it a physical popper.

01:31:47 ◼   ► Like, I know it feels cheaper in your $650,000 car, but resist.

01:31:51 ◼   ► Ferrari fails here.

01:31:52 ◼   ► The Luce does not have a physical charge port door opening and closing mechanism.

01:31:56 ◼   ► It's all electronic.

01:31:57 ◼   ► Boy, I hope that software never bugs out.

01:31:59 ◼   ► And I hope that electronic motor and mechanism always works.

01:32:03 ◼   ► And given the incredible craftsmanship and Ferrari's car assembly process, I do not have

01:32:08 ◼   ► a lot of faith.

01:32:08 ◼   ► Going to the interior, on the controls, turn signal stalks do not exist in this car.

01:32:17 ◼   ► Another solved problem.

01:32:18 ◼   ► I know lots of cars have the buttons for turn signals in the steering wheel.

01:32:21 ◼   ► Some people even like it better, but I'm going to take the bold, brave stance that stalks

01:32:26 ◼   ► are, in fact, the best solution for signaling turns.

01:32:30 ◼   ► I know there's a debate about, like, should it turn with the wheel versus should it be in

01:32:34 ◼   ► a stationary position?

01:32:35 ◼   ► It's the same debate for the paddles.

01:32:36 ◼   ► But the thing about stalks is not only are they always in the same position, they're huge

01:32:41 ◼   ► and you can hit them in a million different places.

01:32:43 ◼   ► Buttons are small and much smaller targets.

01:32:47 ◼   ► And you can't, like, you can't just, like, whack them with your fingertips or throw your

01:32:50 ◼   ► hand up.

01:32:50 ◼   ► Like, stalks, man.

01:32:52 ◼   ► The turn signal stalk is an amazing design from an ergonomic perspective.

01:32:55 ◼   ► Any car that abandons them is either going for the F1 race fantasy, which I guess kind

01:33:00 ◼   ► of this is what they're going for, because Formula One cars and other race cars have an increasing

01:33:03 ◼   ► amount of controls on the steering wheel.

01:33:05 ◼   ► It's because you're a race car driver and you can't take your hands off the wheel.

01:33:07 ◼   ► But man, turn signal stalks.

01:33:09 ◼   ► They are better than buttons on the steering wheel.

01:33:13 ◼   ► And also EVs, when they do have buttons on the steering wheel, it's like, all capacitive.

01:33:17 ◼   ► But then we can make just one clean sheet of plastic.

01:33:20 ◼   ► Oh, I hate it.

01:33:21 ◼   ► And everything can be capacitive and haptic.

01:33:23 ◼   ► I hate it so much.

01:33:24 ◼   ► Thumbs up to the Ferrari here, because guess what?

01:33:27 ◼   ► Johnny Ives is like, no, every one of these buttons is going to cost as much as a Volkswagen

01:33:30 ◼   ► and I'm putting 1,000 on the steering wheel.

01:33:32 ◼   ► All right.

01:33:33 ◼   ► So physical buttons, all of that steering wheel.

01:33:36 ◼   ► Good job, Johnny.

01:33:36 ◼   ► Climate controls.

01:33:38 ◼   ► Physical controls for temperature and fan speed.

01:33:41 ◼   ► Car manufacturers refuse to do this now that they've tasted the sweet, sweet honey of touch

01:33:47 ◼   ► screens for everything.

01:33:48 ◼   ► They're like, no, like they're always in the same place.

01:33:51 ◼   ► We just leave them on the screen all the time.

01:33:52 ◼   ► It's like, that's not a physical button, dude.

01:33:54 ◼   ► But the Luce, physical controls for temperature and fan speed.

01:33:57 ◼   ► Granted, they're dumb toggle switches that are poking out of the screen waiting to stab you,

01:34:01 ◼   ► but they are physical.

01:34:02 ◼   ► And another one that Luce gets right, direct physical control for airflow and direction.

01:34:08 ◼   ► If you want the air to blow to a different place in your car, can you reach out to

01:34:11 ◼   ► the air vent and point it where you want?

01:34:12 ◼   ► Or do you have to go through the touch screen and look at a 3D model of your car and drag

01:34:17 ◼   ► your finger on it?

01:34:18 ◼   ► One of those things you can do while you're driving without taking your eyes off the road.

01:34:21 ◼   ► The other one you cannot and is stupid.

01:34:22 ◼   ► Luce gets this right every one of its air vents.

01:34:25 ◼   ► You grab it with your hand and you point it where you want it to go and you twist it to

01:34:28 ◼   ► change the airflow.

01:34:29 ◼   ► Good job, Johnny.

01:34:30 ◼   ► Glovebox.

01:34:32 ◼   ► I can't believe I have to say this.

01:34:33 ◼   ► Can you open the glove box without using the touch screen?

01:34:37 ◼   ► I know people who aren't car people like, what are you talking about?

01:34:39 ◼   ► You have to use the touch screen to open the glove box?

01:34:41 ◼   ► How dumb is that?

01:34:42 ◼   ► I agree.

01:34:42 ◼   ► So many cars do this.

01:34:44 ◼   ► Tesla did it first, I think.

01:34:45 ◼   ► Like so many of these things that everyone's like, yeah, the glove box should have no way

01:34:49 ◼   ► to open it except through the touch screen.

01:34:51 ◼   ► That's a great idea.

01:34:52 ◼   ► It's not.

01:34:53 ◼   ► Don't do that.

01:34:54 ◼   ► Luce, you can open the glove box without using the touch screen.

01:34:58 ◼   ► I had to put a thumbs down in this category for them though because I think the way you

01:35:03 ◼   ► open the glove box without using the touch screen is by pressing a button that fires an

01:35:06 ◼   ► electronic actuator.

01:35:07 ◼   ► Most likely.

01:35:08 ◼   ► You don't need to do that, Johnny.

01:35:09 ◼   ► Just design a really cool opening mechanism.

01:35:10 ◼   ► Like a physical opening mechanism.

01:35:12 ◼   ► Yeah, but then you have to have like a locking mechanism too.

01:35:14 ◼   ► That's why they do it.

01:35:15 ◼   ► I think it's for the locking.

01:35:16 ◼   ► Yeah, no.

01:35:17 ◼   ► Remember the glove boxes used to have a key lock on it?

01:35:19 ◼   ► Like you can do physical locking things too.

01:35:21 ◼   ► Yeah, but does this car even have a key?

01:35:23 ◼   ► Yeah, they used to have actual keys.

01:35:25 ◼   ► Well, no, but it doesn't have like a jiggy jaggy piece of metal.

01:35:28 ◼   ► I don't believe.

01:35:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm saying old cars used to have that.

01:35:30 ◼   ► But anyway, if you want to make the glove box lockable, then you just have an electronic

01:35:34 ◼   ► locking mechanism that can lock it.

01:35:35 ◼   ► But in the common case, it probably should be open and it should have a physical switch.

01:35:39 ◼   ► The rear view.

01:35:40 ◼   ► Does the rear view mirror exist?

01:35:42 ◼   ► Again, you would think this is not a question you'd have to ask.

01:35:44 ◼   ► But it does.

01:35:46 ◼   ► The Luce has a rear view mirror.

01:35:48 ◼   ► All right.

01:35:48 ◼   ► Thumbs up.

01:35:49 ◼   ► What do other EVs have?

01:35:50 ◼   ► They say, well, this is an EV.

01:35:52 ◼   ► We don't have a rear view mirror.

01:35:53 ◼   ► You know what we have?

01:35:54 ◼   ► We have a screen in the place where the rear view mirror should be.

01:35:58 ◼   ► And you can use that instead.

01:36:00 ◼   ► Some cars going as far as to have this is the next item.

01:36:03 ◼   ► Does the rear window exist?

01:36:05 ◼   ► And Volvo's like, we don't need a rear window.

01:36:06 ◼   ► We've got a camera out the back.

01:36:08 ◼   ► And where the rear view mirror is, we've got a screen.

01:36:11 ◼   ► So why do we even need that back window?

01:36:13 ◼   ► And so they just cover it up.

01:36:14 ◼   ► And what is that one?

01:36:15 ◼   ► There's the EX40 or something.

01:36:16 ◼   ► I don't.

01:36:17 ◼   ► I know what you're talking about.

01:36:18 ◼   ► I don't remember which one.

01:36:19 ◼   ► One of the current Volvos.

01:36:20 ◼   ► Or maybe it's a Polestar.

01:36:21 ◼   ► I forget which one.

01:36:21 ◼   ► I think it's a Polestar.

01:36:23 ◼   ► Again, not 100% sure.

01:36:24 ◼   ► Maybe it's the Polestar 4.

01:36:25 ◼   ► Anyway, no rear window.

01:36:26 ◼   ► But the Luce has a rear view mirror.

01:36:29 ◼   ► And it has a rear window.

01:36:30 ◼   ► And actually a reasonably sized rear window for a Ferrari.

01:36:34 ◼   ► So, I mean, sometimes you can't have it because it's like there's the engine behind you and

01:36:38 ◼   ► you're a low slung car or whatever.

01:36:39 ◼   ► But they have both those things with thumbs up.

01:36:40 ◼   ► And by the way, the reason why screens with current screen technology will never be as

01:36:45 ◼   ► good as a rear view mirror is because when you're driving and you're focusing on the cars

01:36:50 ◼   ► out in front of you and you glance in your mirror to focus at the cars behind you, a mirror

01:36:55 ◼   ► will allow you to have your focal distance that is like 50, you know, 20 yards away.

01:37:00 ◼   ► You'll be able to maintain that 20 yards in front of me.

01:37:03 ◼   ► And then when I look in the mirror, because it is a mirror reflecting light rays and not

01:37:06 ◼   ► a screen, I don't have to focus on the distance from my eyeball to the mirror screen.

01:37:11 ◼   ► Because if it was a screen, it would be like, okay, my eyes have to go from 20 yards to three

01:37:15 ◼   ► feet, 20 yards to three feet.

01:37:16 ◼   ► But because it's an actual mirror, I can say 20 yards in front and then I can look in the

01:37:20 ◼   ► mirror and focus on 20 yards behind me because of the way mirrors work with light and the

01:37:26 ◼   ► way screens do not work.

01:37:27 ◼   ► So yes, rear view mirrors are superior to screens.

01:37:31 ◼   ► And on that same category, side view mirrors exist.

01:37:34 ◼   ► Luce's got them.

01:37:36 ◼   ► It's got mirrors on the side of the car.

01:37:38 ◼   ► And again, you may be asking, doesn't every car have that?

01:37:40 ◼   ► Not if you're an EV, because if you're an EV, you're like mirrors are so passe.

01:37:45 ◼   ► And in fact, they impede the airflow.

01:37:47 ◼   ► Let's have tiny pinhole size cameras that we use.

01:37:51 ◼   ► And then we'll put screens on the interior just inside the interior where the side view mirrors

01:37:56 ◼   ► would be, uh, that's illegal in the U S.

01:37:59 ◼   ► So the U S models don't get that, but everywhere it's legal.

01:38:01 ◼   ► They're like, no, yeah, the U S models will get the mirrors, but everywhere else gets this

01:38:04 ◼   ► stupid thing.

01:38:04 ◼   ► Luce didn't do that.

01:38:06 ◼   ► They have actual side view mirrors.

01:38:07 ◼   ► Although I have to say, I have to give Volvo some extra negative bonus points because, um,

01:38:12 ◼   ► well, I think it's one of their recent models.

01:38:14 ◼   ► They decided that the, uh, the side view mirrors, rather than having the mirror change angle inside

01:38:20 ◼   ► its little thingy, you know, as you adjust the mirror so you can see where you want,

01:38:24 ◼   ► they make the entire little pod thing.

01:38:26 ◼   ► Oh, gross.

01:38:27 ◼   ► Rotate.

01:38:28 ◼   ► Like, like, like the mirror is fixed in, in a little pod.

01:38:32 ◼   ► And then when you adjust the mirror, the whole little pod moves.

01:38:35 ◼   ► And I'm like Volvo, the whole point in having the mirror move and not the exterior is so you

01:38:40 ◼   ► can wind tunnel test your little stationary pods and make them optimal.

01:38:44 ◼   ► And then people can adjust the mirrors within that fixed thing by moving the little pod.

01:38:48 ◼   ► You're changing the aerodynamics of the car based on the height of the driver.

01:38:52 ◼   ► I don't know what people are doing, but anyway, Luce had a side view mirror.

01:38:56 ◼   ► So thumbs up.

01:38:57 ◼   ► And then I have a bonus checklist just for Johnny Ive.

01:39:00 ◼   ► One, which we knew, we knew this because we saw the interior, but does the car have cup holders?

01:39:07 ◼   ► And I feared Johnny Ive car who'd be like, you shouldn't be drinking in your car.

01:39:11 ◼   ► You shouldn't have cup holders.

01:39:12 ◼   ► But this car does indeed have cup holders.

01:39:14 ◼   ► In fact, it has machined aluminum $10,000 cup holders, but it does have cup holders.

01:39:19 ◼   ► So good job, Johnny.

01:39:20 ◼   ► I know it was tough for you.

01:39:21 ◼   ► I bet you probably said, what if the car didn't have cup holders?

01:39:24 ◼   ► But someone said, no, we need cup holders.

01:39:26 ◼   ► Two, adjustable headrests.

01:39:29 ◼   ► This is the adjustable monitor stand of cars.

01:39:32 ◼   ► The Luce does not have adjustable headrest height.

01:39:34 ◼   ► I guess it just assumes everyone's the same height.

01:39:35 ◼   ► A lot of Ferraris and a lot of sports cars, when you get the sports seats, they don't have

01:39:39 ◼   ► an adjustable headrest height.

01:39:41 ◼   ► It's just a one piece seat for, you know, for a lightweight or whatever.

01:39:44 ◼   ► And as far as I can tell, the only seat option in the Luce has a non-adjustable headrest

01:39:51 ◼   ► height.

01:39:51 ◼   ► I couldn't tell if the little cushion slides up and down, but I don't think it does.

01:39:54 ◼   ► And as someone who is taller and who has a wife who is shorter, I can tell you the adjustable

01:40:00 ◼   ► headrests are really important for safety because if my wife adjusts the headrest for

01:40:04 ◼   ► her and then I get into the car, if I get hit from behind, that headrest is going to snap

01:40:09 ◼   ► my neck because it's going to meet like the middle of the middle of my neck and not actually

01:40:13 ◼   ► stop my head from going back.

01:40:14 ◼   ► And the same thing with me.

01:40:15 ◼   ► If I put the headrest where I needed to go, her head's going to miss the headrest entirely

01:40:18 ◼   ► and like hit the metal poles that are holding it up.

01:40:20 ◼   ► So adjustable headrests is an important safety consideration.

01:40:23 ◼   ► But just like Apple monitors don't have adjustable height stands, this car does not have

01:40:27 ◼   ► adjustable headrests.

01:40:28 ◼   ► And then finally, I don't know that these are called, but you know, on the little grab

01:40:32 ◼   ► handles over the rear doors, they're usually this chintzy little plastic handles that are,

01:40:37 ◼   ► you know, that flap down.

01:40:37 ◼   ► I mean, you let go of them.

01:40:38 ◼   ► They flap back up into the roof.

01:40:39 ◼   ► They've been on cars for my entire life.

01:40:41 ◼   ► Um, the ones on the Luce are obviously machined aluminum tubes that are again, probably horrendously

01:40:47 ◼   ► expensive, incredibly strong.

01:40:48 ◼   ► You could probably hang children off of them.

01:40:50 ◼   ► They're amazing looking, but one thing they don't have is that little tiny hook where you

01:40:55 ◼   ► hang your dry cleaning?

01:40:55 ◼   ► Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:40:57 ◼   ► Probably because Johnny thought, I've got these beautiful aluminum tubes.

01:41:00 ◼   ► Why would I mess them up with a little hook?

01:41:02 ◼   ► I'll tell you why, Johnny.

01:41:02 ◼   ► When you get your dry cleaning, where the hell are you going to hang it?

01:41:04 ◼   ► I mean, I just hang it from the handle because here's the thing.

01:41:08 ◼   ► I never do, I never get one shirt dry cleaned.

01:41:11 ◼   ► I always wait until there's like a whole bag of shirts that's waiting to go to the cleaners

01:41:16 ◼   ► for three months.

01:41:17 ◼   ► Then I bring them all there at once.

01:41:18 ◼   ► And so I'm always coming out of the cleaners with like 12 shirts.

01:41:22 ◼   ► So they never fit on those dumb little hooks anyway.

01:41:25 ◼   ► So I always just hang them off the whole handle.

01:41:27 ◼   ► Almost every car has them and you can't, you can't hang them off the bar thingy because

01:41:31 ◼   ► then you have to like twist the hanger.

01:41:32 ◼   ► So it is perpendicular to the direction of the clothes.

01:41:34 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:41:35 ◼   ► It doesn't matter.

01:41:35 ◼   ► It's, it's a risk I'm willing to take.

01:41:37 ◼   ► Yeah, that's probably not a big deal.

01:41:39 ◼   ► And honestly, when you hang clothes there, it really reduces the visibility in your car.

01:41:42 ◼   ► You should probably lay them flat in your trunk.

01:41:43 ◼   ► But it's interesting that he decided again, for purity of design, I know every car has

01:41:49 ◼   ► these, but I don't like it.

01:41:50 ◼   ► Look at these beautiful aluminum tubes.

01:41:52 ◼   ► So overall, a pretty good score on the interior.

01:41:54 ◼   ► Like I said, this is, this is probably the, the most expensive feeling, uh, most carefully

01:42:00 ◼   ► designed car interior that will literally ever exist.

01:42:02 ◼   ► And it's not to say that it is the best because I have lots of complaints about it, but I

01:42:06 ◼   ► believe it is an amazing moment in time when someone, uh, with very particular tastes and

01:42:12 ◼   ► tremendous skills was given an unlimited budget to do what they wanted with the car interior.

01:42:15 ◼   ► And then they came up with this, not a great car interior, but on the micro level aspects

01:42:20 ◼   ► of this will probably never be equaled.

01:42:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:42:23 ◼   ► I mean, again, I really, really like the interior.

01:42:25 ◼   ► It is not flawless, but I like it a lot from what I can tell, uh, the exterior though.

01:42:30 ◼   ► Woof.

01:42:30 ◼   ► Oh, and I forgot to mention, so who's, why does this car exist?

01:42:33 ◼   ► Who's going to buy it?

01:42:34 ◼   ► Um, setting aside, uh, Ferrari strategy of like, we're going to let someone else design this

01:42:40 ◼   ► car and it doesn't look like any of our Ferraris.

01:42:42 ◼   ► Like it's clear that's what they wanted to do and that's what they got, but what's going

01:42:45 ◼   ► to happen with this car.

01:42:46 ◼   ► I would imagine at least what they hope is going to happen is as, as their lead designer

01:42:51 ◼   ► pointed out in a couple of the interviews, you know, what is Porsche's best-selling car?

01:42:55 ◼   ► It's not the 911.

01:42:56 ◼   ► I can tell you that it's their SUV.

01:42:58 ◼   ► The SUV is as soon as Porsche decided to make an SUV that became their best-selling car.

01:43:02 ◼   ► Not by a little bit, not like it sells a little bit more than like the 911.

01:43:05 ◼   ► Like they are basically an SUV company that also sells the 911 on the side, right?

01:43:10 ◼   ► Uh, the Per Sangue, the Ferrari SUV, it's Ferrari's best-selling car.

01:43:14 ◼   ► I mean, even, even Ferrari is not immune to what everybody wants.

01:43:20 ◼   ► And what everybody wants is not a two-seat sports car.

01:43:22 ◼   ► Even at this price class where you think it doesn't matter for these people, they're paying

01:43:25 ◼   ► half a million dollars for a car.

01:43:26 ◼   ► Surely they're not going to want an SUV.

01:43:28 ◼   ► Nope, they do.

01:43:29 ◼   ► They want a Ferrari SUV and that's what they buy.

01:43:31 ◼   ► And so this car is for the people, most people who buy Ferraris, they have a stat of like,

01:43:35 ◼   ► who buys Ferraris?

01:43:36 ◼   ► It's people who already own Ferraris to the extent that sometimes, in fact, frequently, Ferrari

01:43:41 ◼   ► will not let you buy one of their cars unless you have bought several of their

01:43:44 ◼   ► their cars previously.

01:43:45 ◼   ► So if you want like an F80, you can't just go and buy an F80.

01:43:49 ◼   ► They'll be like, what other Ferraris have you bought from us?

01:43:51 ◼   ► We'll see if we're going to let you buy this car for $2 million, whatever the hell the F80

01:43:56 ◼   ► costs.

01:43:56 ◼   ► I forget.

01:43:57 ◼   ► So this car, say you own a bunch of Ferraris, but you're not going to, you can't take your like, you know, SF90 to go get groceries or whatever.

01:44:06 ◼   ► It's just like, it's not convenient.

01:44:07 ◼   ► There's not a lot of luggage space.

01:44:09 ◼   ► What if you want to go on a trip?

01:44:09 ◼   ► What if you want to take people with you?

01:44:11 ◼   ► What if you just want a driving around town car, but you're also horrendously wealthy?

01:44:15 ◼   ► You probably want something that's kind of like an SUV and EVs are great too.

01:44:19 ◼   ► This is that car.

01:44:21 ◼   ► If you just want a normal car, but all your other cars are Ferraris and you don't want to get a Mercedes or a BMW or whatever.

01:44:29 ◼   ► Ferrari now has something for you to buy.

01:44:30 ◼   ► And I think fulfilling that purpose, it fits people well.

01:44:34 ◼   ► Three adults can go in the backseat and not feel cramped.

01:44:37 ◼   ► I'm sure it drives nicely and smoothly, and it is much more comfortable and convenient than any other Ferrari, including their, their, uh, you know, the Purra Sangue, the internal combustion SUV.

01:44:48 ◼   ► And the interior is going to look impressive to rich people because it is right.

01:44:54 ◼   ► And that's who I think who's going to buy this car, people who want a four-door EV, but also are the type of person who owns Ferrari.

01:45:02 ◼   ► So here you go.

01:45:03 ◼   ► And the fact that it doesn't look like any of their sporty cars probably won't be too much of a hindrance as long as they don't think it's ugly because you're just looking for a car to like take your friends to the movies or go run an errand or something.

01:45:14 ◼   ► And honestly, if you get this into color other than red, this will probably blend in with the rest of like the Teslas and other stuff that's on the road.

01:45:21 ◼   ► It certainly won't stand out as much as like a Taycan would because that looks like a sporty Porsche because it is.

01:45:25 ◼   ► So that's, that's what I think this car is for.