00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is upgrade episode 613 for april 27th 2026 this episode is brought to you by fitbod mercury
00:00:18 ◼ ► weather claude and steam clock my name is mike hurley and i am joined at full volume by jason snell
00:00:26 ◼ ► i'm at full volume because i'm not recording in the spare bedroom today oh i see yes i i i well not yet
00:00:34 ◼ ► but this may all get erased by breaking news later that you have to we have to record a new version of
00:00:39 ◼ ► the opening in your in your spare bedroom don't wake the baby up hello from surely it can't happen
00:00:44 ◼ ► again upgrade surely surely it can't happen again not for 15 years i have a snail talk question that
00:00:51 ◼ ► comes in from andrew who wants to know jason do you listen to the niche british rest is history
00:00:57 ◼ ► series like the recent 1975 to 78 masterpiece if so do you enjoy them i mean of course i do i listened
00:01:05 ◼ ► to i loved the britain in 1974 series yes and i'll tell you why one of the okay it's the rest is history
00:01:11 ◼ ► one of the reasons that i love the rest is history is because it is storytelling right it is i don't
00:01:17 ◼ ► know if i i assume i haven't said this publicly but um that i realized that they haven't done a
00:01:22 ◼ ► series about the british civil war and tom holland mentioned this great book about the british civil
00:01:26 ◼ ► war the english civil war sorry english civil war i think it was just an english civil war at that point
00:01:31 ◼ ► anyway uh so i got the book i did an interlibrary loan i got the book i was like well i'll just read
00:01:36 ◼ ► this book since they haven't done it and what i realized is this is the sort of book that tom holland
00:01:45 ◼ ► very small print and i uh i i'm not gonna read that i'm not i'm not gonna do that i want tom holland
00:01:51 ◼ ► a trained um historian or dominic sandbrook a trained historian to read about the english civil war and then
00:01:58 ◼ ► uh tell an engaging story about it so this is what i love about the rest is history in fact i might even
00:02:04 ◼ ► say that something like the niche uh rise of margaret thatcher 1975 to 1978 series that they just did
00:02:11 ◼ ► is exactly the kind of thing i like from the rest is history because they're not just telling me a story
00:02:18 ◼ ► but instead of it being a familiar story where i don't know many of the details it's an unfamiliar
00:02:24 ◼ ► story where i know none of the details and other than i mean the very broadest like i know who margaret
00:02:30 ◼ ► thatcher is right but so i know i know where she ends up but um i find that delightful because it really
00:02:37 ◼ ► is about telling the stories and all of the little detail little weird details that they uh that they
00:02:43 ◼ ► sprinkle in along the way especially since this is dominic's area of specialty he knows a lot of very
00:02:49 ◼ ► he's obviously over the course of 20 30 years of of his uh of his professional research into this
00:02:55 ◼ ► there are certain stories that have flagged his interest as like this is a ludicrous story
00:03:00 ◼ ► and he's he talks about all of those stories right because he knows those are the funniest weirdest
00:03:05 ◼ ► stories so i love it that's great storytelling basically britain in the 70s was an absolute
00:03:10 ◼ ► disaster like it was disastrous yeah i didn't realize how bad and so bad it gets so i just i just
00:03:18 ◼ ► listened to the section this morning where the one minister who can't be fired because the the the
00:03:25 ◼ ► majority is too small uh ben um he has a great scheme where he's going to give money to workers who are
00:03:32 ◼ ► living in a factory that has been shut down and they're going to make car radiators and orange juice
00:03:37 ◼ ► yeah in the same factory yeah and there's a moment where they pause and they're like there must be some
00:03:42 ◼ ► reason right why those two things in manufacturing wise and then they move on from it and it's just
00:03:49 ◼ ► like i love those details they're so ridiculous it's amazing yeah so i had previously recommended you know
00:03:54 ◼ ► like when people ask us like what series i had recommended the britain in 74 series where they oh man
00:03:59 ◼ ► this is just setting up the the the year in 1974 where we had three general elections uh in a year um
00:04:08 ◼ ► three of them that is that is imagine a presidential election three times in one calendar year we had
00:04:15 ◼ ► that um it's and i was really hoping i was very much looking forward to them returning to talk about
00:04:22 ◼ ► kind of like the rest of everything that happens because britain only gets worse from this point
00:04:27 ◼ ► turns out um into when margaret thatcher comes in and makes things worse and then kind of controls them
00:04:34 ◼ ► not necessarily in ways that are good for everyone but kind of gets britain back on a path
00:04:38 ◼ ► it definitely puts into context uh the arrival of margaret thatcher right yeah it's like how could that
00:04:44 ◼ ► how could that happen and it's like oh i see yeah um and so i was really looking forward to them
00:04:53 ◼ ► in classic wrestling history style they finished the series now they're going to do more next year
00:04:57 ◼ ► and margaret thatcher is still not the prime minister not the prime minister yeah that's the way to do it
00:05:02 ◼ ► you got to leave them wanting more yeah and i do and i'm looking forward to it it's the best show
00:05:06 ◼ ► yeah it's the best podcast so good so i put links in the show notes to those two seasons if people
00:05:11 ◼ ► want to go check them out if you have a snow talk question of your own that you would like to send in
00:05:17 ◼ ► to help us open out a show or open up a show or do whatever please go to upgradefeedback.com and send
00:05:23 ◼ ► in your snow talk question uh we have some follow-up jason so uh last time the the main important
00:05:29 ◼ ► thing of last week's episode was our apple at 50 draft clearly and we gave people the opportunity
00:05:34 ◼ ► to vote on who would who had the best list and i knew how this vote was going to go but it didn't
00:05:41 ◼ ► go exactly how i thought uh with 75 percent of respondents saying that you had the better list
00:05:48 ◼ ► uh mine was 25 percent i don't think that it's that different you know but sure uh i was picking from
00:05:54 ◼ ► the heart so i'm the real you made you made people have to choose yeah it might be that 75 percent of
00:06:02 ◼ ► people think that i very barely beat you right that's a beautiful way of putting it yeah right
00:06:08 ◼ ► so it's okay that is the case but it doesn't mean that they think it was a blowout it just means that
00:06:13 ◼ ► a lot of people thought i won that's all that means and i don't care because i was picking from
00:06:17 ◼ ► the heart i know i picked too many ipods but you know what i didn't pick up as a printer i didn't
00:06:21 ◼ ► put a printer on my list but somehow we got that on there and i actually have a question that came
00:06:25 ◼ ► in from steve who wrote and it said any apple list about the laser writer is not an apple list
00:06:31 ◼ ► that product and what it catalyzed had an impact on society that rivals the iphone thank you jason i'm
00:06:37 ◼ ► not sure if i agree with that part you know how good that's okay that's why you didn't pick the
00:06:41 ◼ ► laser writer but i did yeah i do you agree with steve's take it had a huge impact it did on on on
00:06:49 ◼ ► the computer industry certainly on society maybe somewhat uh rivaling the iphone i would say probably
00:06:55 ◼ ► i i wouldn't go that far but still pretty good pretty good i appreciated you attempting to see if you
00:07:02 ◼ ► could get to steve's point of view but you couldn't get there i i wanted to see how far down the road i
00:07:08 ◼ ► could go before i said no i can't go any further and that's how far is like impact it did have an
00:07:13 ◼ ► impact on society what's this next part rivals the iphone well what does rivals mean is it no no
00:07:19 ◼ ► uh and obviously we got a bunch of inevitable i can't believe nobody picked this um and i wanted
00:07:26 ◼ ► to just read a couple of these because they're funny to me thomas says i can't believe nobody picked
00:07:30 ◼ ► the emac i can i didn't pick it the emac is weird uh it wasn't even i mean it's interesting and all
00:07:38 ◼ ► but like it's just a g3 imac with a g4 in it kind of and for education but then they sold it and like
00:07:43 ◼ ► whatever i mean again it it you can have it thomas it's on your list it's your number one draft pick
00:07:51 ◼ ► congratulations with my compliments but i i feel like to me the fact that we picked both the g3 and
00:07:58 ◼ ► the g4 is like that's enough we you know the emac i don't know man i don't know if it deserves to be
00:08:04 ◼ ► on there pick the emate instead yeah exactly we picked the emate be happy about it and then eric
00:08:09 ◼ ► wrote and said i'm a bit sad to see the original apple airport not get its place on any lists it
00:08:16 ◼ ► wasn't the first wireless router but it was definitely the attainable wireless access point
00:08:20 ◼ ► as an individual and an inflection point yeah so historically important and i thought about it
00:08:25 ◼ ► the ufo shaped airports the the the um kind of gray one and then the white one yeah were
00:08:32 ◼ ► really impactful and when i was trying to think of apple hardware products that were not
00:08:37 ◼ ► you know computers uh but accessories that's one that i thought about and in the end i just decided
00:08:43 ◼ ► they were so they were kind of unreliable they burned out that i decided it left enough of a
00:08:50 ◼ ► a bad taste in my mouth that i i couldn't pick it but i thought about picking it i'll put it that way i
00:08:55 ◼ ► mean the airport that original airport was so it was groundbreaking but it was also so early
00:09:00 ◼ ► for those who don't remember like the number one mode that you would use to use that airport is you'd
00:09:08 ◼ ► it had a it had a modem in it so you'd plug it into your telephone and when a device came on the wi-fi
00:09:15 ◼ ► and wanted to get to the internet the airport would dial your isp and then you could be on the internet
00:09:21 ◼ ► that's how long ago this was i mean you could also put it on ethernet and i had dsl at this point
00:09:26 ◼ ► but like that was yeah that was that was that it was long ago anyway it was a huge deal but i just
00:09:33 ◼ ► one of the suggestions we got from somebody was the add-on card for airport that added airport to
00:09:39 ◼ ► apple's um early airport capable laptops it didn't used to come built in you had to like lift flip open
00:09:46 ◼ ► the keyboard and slide this card in in order to get wi-fi support on your laptop because who needs only
00:09:53 ◼ ► some people need wi-fi um but we didn't pick either of those things so yeah um i have a couple of things
00:09:59 ◼ ► in the airport so i've put a link in the show notes to the wikipedia page one the original airports the
00:10:04 ◼ ► ufo ones i'd forgotten how big the apple logo was on those and it looks honestly ridiculous uh to me
00:10:10 ◼ ► even though the design was cool at the time and it reminded me of the airport express which was just
00:10:15 ◼ ► basically the very big looking power adapter then that was a cool product that was that's a cool
00:10:20 ◼ ► also also burned out alive but i'm sure i'm sure they all did eventually yeah um and then i had
00:10:25 ◼ ► forgotten that the because in my mind when i think of the airport now i think of that kind of like big
00:10:31 ◼ ► white tower one yeah i'd forgotten that was a time capsule that was the time capsule the the the non
00:10:37 ◼ ► time capsule airports were smaller yeah i just i think of just the little they look like little plastic
00:10:42 ◼ ► mac minis kind of so there you go uh and an anonymous person wrote in and said you'll be pleased to know
00:10:48 ◼ ► that the imac pro continues to live on at apple in every mail room it always makes me smile when i
00:10:55 ◼ ► see them i would love to know what's going on there is that what this means post room yeah this person
00:11:01 ◼ ► had written in and it clearly indicated to me in the language that they spoke because it was more than
00:11:06 ◼ ► this that they were writing in from from uh the uk i believe but it says post room and i and i just i
00:11:11 ◼ ► code switched to mail room uh for you yeah that that makes that makes more sense i was thinking like
00:11:17 ◼ ► is this like post production of video or something like that but in the mail it sounds like a thing
00:11:22 ◼ ► that could totally live in the mail room imac pro though you know we could have just got a 5k imac
00:11:27 ◼ ► yeah i don't know if we needed the pro i don't know it's like when you would see um like tim cook
00:11:33 ◼ ► touring facility isn't it be like imacs running windows like hanging around over the top of robots
00:11:38 ◼ ► and stuff that's where it reminds me of uh now i have a completely unrelated question and this is going
00:11:44 ◼ ► back to us talking about the macbook neo a couple of weeks ago holly wrote in and said with the success
00:11:48 ◼ ► of the macbook neo causing potential shortages of the binned a18 pro do you expect this to impact
00:11:54 ◼ ► other planned product launches that may use the same chip for example could the new apple tv box that have
00:12:01 ◼ ► used that chip as well be delayed it's possible i would think that apple would be planning out their
00:12:05 ◼ ► chip usage for eventualities like this yeah does it need to be an a18 pro could it be an a18 could it be
00:12:12 ◼ ► from some you know an a17 could it be from some other bin like i think they've got options there
00:12:17 ◼ ► so i would i would imagine but it's possible like if they really again i have a hard time believing that
00:12:22 ◼ ► they didn't have a contingency plan for for the macbook neo being a big hit because it certainly was
00:12:27 ◼ ► a real possibility and so i don't think they would be surprised and and that makes me think that it would
00:12:32 ◼ ► be unlikely that they would say oh no we had planned on using all those in this apple tv and now we can't
00:12:37 ◼ ► release it but i don't know maybe it's possible yeah i would think they would be better at planning
00:12:42 ◼ ► than that you know i can't get over how often i'm seeing the macbook neo now just like in videos and
00:12:50 ◼ ► people just using them yeah it's just not a big deal and it's like oh i still really want one jason
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00:15:10 ◼ ► upgrade and relay so obviously we're going to talk more about tim cook today um so on the last episode
00:15:18 ◼ ► we were giving our kind of initial reactions and that was thoughts that we had it was a snap yeah
00:15:24 ◼ ► sudden surprise podcast for those who hadn't read that much into it we were uh we were done and
00:15:31 ◼ ► mike was home and then we and then the tim cook news happened so we got something so we got it together
00:15:37 ◼ ► and i was very happy that we got something together because imagine how hilarious that would have been
00:15:41 ◼ ► uh for that being just sitting out there for a week the draft yeah but here we are so uh after a week
00:15:49 ◼ ► more to think about it how are you feeling now about this is there any areas that are interesting to you
00:15:55 ◼ ► exciting to you concerning where are you i you know i'm kind of interested in it's been interesting to
00:16:03 ◼ ► see everybody's takes on this i find it very funny that there's definitely a certain portion of
00:16:09 ◼ ► the internet i mean it happens every time right it's almost like a rorschach test of the content creators
00:16:19 ◼ ► out there who are like how can i how can i make this be a reason to repeat my worldview again right or or
00:16:27 ◼ ► right like and and i've seen some really amazing takes that are like hey there's going to be a new ceo
00:16:35 ◼ ► at apple so let me complain about my you know personal whatever it is my you know my love of weird chinese
00:16:44 ◼ ► android phones and why they aren't available more broadly uh and making that about john turnus
00:16:51 ◼ ► somehow like okay like there's there's a bunch of those i've seen um i've seen a bunch of uh uh
00:16:58 ◼ ► uh kind of like one last chance to complain about tim cook and his you know his uh his treatment of the
00:17:10 ◼ ► chinese government and of the trump administration which you know fair fair fair do like get your
00:17:16 ◼ ► get your licks in um it's just interesting to see the different reactions that people have to it
00:17:21 ◼ ► um also the the the glee in some areas where it's like oh finally with not with tim cook not there
00:17:29 ◼ ► things will be different which you know i i also think is maybe a little overheated because
00:17:35 ◼ ► there he's first off he's still going to be there uh as the executive chairman and second this is a
00:17:40 ◼ ► many year plan and john turnus has been a major part of apple all this time and while i'm enthusiastic
00:17:46 ◼ ► for the opportunity for change i think it would be a mistake to assume that especially that everything
00:17:53 ◼ ► you've disliked about apple it's it's like alan die again right which is like yes you can be hopeful
00:17:59 ◼ ► for change and think that this is an opportunity for change without kind of loading all of your
00:18:06 ◼ ► personal uh frustrations onto this one change and thinking that this is the one that's going to solve
00:18:12 ◼ ► it because i think you're going to end up disappointed because there's going to be way more continuity
00:18:16 ◼ ► than you would expect so i don't know it's i a lot of it has just been human nature the the spread of
00:18:23 ◼ ► reactions has not been um surprising in fact i i was amused that there was one piece that i saw that
00:18:29 ◼ ► was um that was very much like i'm disappointed that everybody's just been praising tim cook but i'm
00:18:36 ◼ ► going to be critical of him and i thought well did you not look hard for the everybody's been praising
00:18:44 ◼ ► tim cook is not how i would phrase it but sure again get your get your take in which was a that was a
00:18:51 ◼ ► completely different take about about other reasons i did you know i thought that the the guy who wrote
00:18:56 ◼ ► apple in china um wrote an op-ed in the new york times that i thought was kind of interesting where he
00:19:01 ◼ ► was essentially restating his thesis uh which is that you know apple for apple's being successful
00:19:09 ◼ ► also uh built up china's manufacturing capacity i would argue maybe he takes it a little too far when he
00:19:16 ◼ ► makes that argument he he it's much more dramatic to say sort of like apple made china which is not
00:19:22 ◼ ► true but apple helped it's it that is true apple helped but i think he overstates it sometimes i think
00:19:28 ◼ ► i think to make his point more seem more broad and more important um but i i do think that that was
00:19:37 ◼ ► interesting and then of course he also makes the point that i think is really well made in his book that
00:19:40 ◼ ► one of the challenges that is that in in priming apple for success tim cook has also made apple
00:19:46 ◼ ► incredibly vulnerable for in terms of its reliance on china in the supply chain uh its use of chinese
00:19:53 ◼ ► markets to grow the business but you know that's dangerous too in case there's uh something cut off
00:20:00 ◼ ► there and then he made the point i think that i haven't seen anywhere else that he's never that tim
00:20:04 ◼ ► cook is basically doesn't go to taiwan even though taiwan semiconductor is his chip supplier
00:20:08 ◼ ► because it would offend china so he doesn't go i thought that was interesting too so there's some
00:20:13 ◼ ► interesting bits in there that yeah but uh you know i it's been interesting to see the reaction
00:20:17 ◼ ► and i'm i'm glad that we got to be in on the on the on the forefront of that i mean we literally
00:20:22 ◼ ► recorded that right after and then i sat down and i wrote a couple thousand words about it and then i
00:20:27 ◼ ► got to watch everybody else do their thing yeah i think for me i kind of have a few different
00:20:33 ◼ ► feelings going on um i agree with everything you said that right like it is very funny to watch like
00:20:40 ◼ ► all of the hammers and nails that people are using right like yeah you have this hammer and so this is
00:20:46 ◼ ► just a nail for you to to hit on and i think if i am to have a hammer and nail it is that i just like it
00:20:53 ◼ ► when interesting things happen because then we can talk about them like i remember when when this was all
00:20:59 ◼ ► breaking last year um about it seeming like that we were really speeding up towards uh some kind of
00:21:06 ◼ ► retirement message like with the ft thing and then with subsequent reporting from mark german um i was
00:21:13 ◼ ► hoping it would happen because i thought it would be interesting to cover and so i still i mean i feel
00:21:19 ◼ ► like i'm the level of interestingness i actually think is higher than i had imagined like now we're here
00:21:27 ◼ ► it's like oh it's interesting this has happened now we have a few months of speculation and then
00:21:32 ◼ ► things are going to start to change from that point because there will be change like there will not be
00:21:37 ◼ ► rapid massive change to apple like turnus is going to make a mark and then things will slowly start to
00:21:46 ◼ ► change from there but this will absolutely come september 1st be a change an inflection point for the
00:21:52 ◼ ► company because he is he is a person with his own opinions and he is going to have them and like you
00:21:58 ◼ ► know it's like people say like oh he's been there forever you know he's gonna i think you know he he's
00:22:04 ◼ ► gonna just do whatever tim wanted to do and i don't think that is completely accurate like being part of
00:22:10 ◼ ► the machine doesn't mean he agrees with everything that everybody wants to do and now instead of just
00:22:17 ◼ ► being on the team he's now the guy in charge he's now the guy in charge i i think you could probably
00:22:23 ◼ ► say that probably over the last five years to six months or whatever since he became svp to now
00:22:32 ◼ ► he's obviously been increasingly involved as part of his training and run-up to being the ceo
00:22:38 ◼ ► increasingly involved in in this process but still in the end it's tim cook's decision i would say that
00:22:46 ◼ ► um that probably since this probably since december assuming that that's when everything was finally
00:22:53 ◼ ► just decided that any decisions that are kind of long-term decisions that tim cook has been bringing
00:22:59 ◼ ► john turnus into the loop about if he wasn't already and then but but you're right it it it's going to
00:23:04 ◼ ► continue to transition over uh the next few months until september and and then we'll go from there
00:23:11 ◼ ► and there will be there will be change i think it's the question is just sort of like everybody it's very
00:23:17 ◼ ► easy to overload all your dreams and hopes and put them put them in a box and think well john turnus is
00:23:21 ◼ ► going to come in and solve all these problems and there is going to be more continuity than you might
00:23:25 ◼ ► expect because he is on the senior management team uh but he will also make changes because he's not in
00:23:32 ◼ ► that same role both of those things can be true um i i think oh i wanted to mention another thing
00:23:37 ◼ ► that i thought was really funny is that there was that one report out there about how like you know
00:23:41 ◼ ► what was he involved with and he was really into the ipad uh stuff yeah and making the ipad more usable
00:23:47 ◼ ► and then but he was also one of the people behind the the touch bar and i've seen that thrown up as
00:23:53 ◼ ► like ah failure the touch bar and i'm just going to say it again he's the hardware guy the touch bar
00:23:58 ◼ ► hardware was kind of impressive the problem with the touch bar was not the hardware it was the fact
00:24:03 ◼ ► that the software group didn't bother with the touch bar yeah and i'm gonna that is a hill i will die on
00:24:11 ◼ ► is that the touch bar could have been better hardware and they could have iterated on it but what i find
00:24:15 ◼ ► interesting about the touch bar is that it was an interesting piece of hardware that was you could
00:24:20 ◼ ► see the software group run away from it like they never did anything to make it better when it could
00:24:27 ◼ ► have been much more interesting they just didn't bother and that to me i thought that was one of the
00:24:33 ◼ ► most visible examples of one port one part of apple just not playing ball with the other part where like
00:24:40 ◼ ► literally you could see the hardware group thought this was worth doing the software group didn't so they
00:24:45 ◼ ► didn't and that was a bad bit of management who you know tim on tim cook's level right that they could
00:24:52 ◼ ► they they shipped a hardware feature on their laptop that their software group didn't want to do anything
00:24:58 ◼ ► with and so it just laid there until they finally got rid of it like i i'm i'm sorry i just and and that's
00:25:04 ◼ ► that to me that's always a sign of of a an argument that is weak is that it's somebody who's just
00:25:09 ◼ ► cherry picking something that they don't really have all the facts about or they want to just use
00:25:14 ◼ ► it because they want to throw that in there at john turnus it's like i that is a much more complicated
00:25:19 ◼ ► story but but sure fine i have two areas that i want to get your your take on for potential areas of
00:25:27 ◼ ► change one is the app store do we think there will be any change to the app store and the kind of the
00:25:34 ◼ ► business of the app store and two do you think there will be any change to how apple events are conducted
00:25:43 ◼ ► app store what i would say is this is an opportunity for a change in policy if a change in policy is
00:25:53 ◼ ► um something that that john turnus wants to do i i think it's very clear and we can go back to all of
00:26:01 ◼ ► those uh court transcripts right it's very clear that phil schiller even made the argument that maybe
00:26:10 ◼ ► they should live up to what steve jobs had said which was we're really just here to cover our own
00:26:16 ◼ ► expenses and once they're making a billion dollars on the app store maybe they should start easing some
00:26:21 ◼ ► of the rules of the app store or some of the their cut of of the revenue from the app store and it's
00:26:25 ◼ ► clearly that somebody whether it was the cfo or whether it was tim cook somebody was like no
00:26:30 ◼ ► maximize revenue that's what we're here to do now which is not what the original idea was as sold by
00:26:35 ◼ ► steve jobs and and schiller was like maybe we should you know say we've got our cut and the rest of this
00:26:41 ◼ ► is to the benefit of our developers now that's a you know that's a decision that if tim cook didn't
00:26:46 ◼ ► make it directly he allowed it to be the decision right if the cfo was like no and tim cook's like all right
00:26:51 ◼ ► i'm gonna go with the cfo here it's still his decision well that's an area where john turnus we
00:26:56 ◼ ► don't know maybe john turnus in the background was like i don't love this this has gotten us like a
00:27:00 ◼ ► lot of the maybe he's making a lot of the arguments we're making which is like is how have we gone down
00:27:06 ◼ ► this path too far have we been too aggressive and are we courting just more trouble yeah from all of
00:27:12 ◼ ► these other groups all these other regulators when we're doing fine and that like like the best thing
00:27:18 ◼ ► here is not to have this hard rule but to to like back off maybe maybe not but i would say that
00:27:26 ◼ ► it's unlikely that tim cook who allowed this decision to happen in the first place is gonna
00:27:32 ◼ ► backtrack but john turnus could say it's a new era and we're gonna make some changes and he has the
00:27:42 ◼ ► ability to do that uh i would say in a way that tim cook is just not gonna do yeah so i i you know
00:27:48 ◼ ► in terms of the app store that's what i think is like there's an opportunity for change here
00:27:53 ◼ ► because the old regime is gone and so the new regime i know it's a lot of the same people but
00:27:58 ◼ ► like the boss is different and this is what i've been saying all along it's a lot easier to get the
00:28:03 ◼ ► new boss to say let's change some things than it is for the old boss to say hey some of those decisions
00:28:07 ◼ ► i made in the past they were bad and i'm gonna change them right it's just it's easier for a new
00:28:29 ◼ ► for all of history because no one's going to give this up like it's it's it's a it's a good
00:28:36 ◼ ► kind of area for governments to attack do you just kind of hold up your hands and be like forget about
00:28:43 ◼ ► it and also if you're a hardware guy you know i mean if he was involved in vision pro say we all know
00:28:50 ◼ ► what happened there like we all saw that developers weren't interested and if you have ideas for new
00:28:57 ◼ ► platforms in the future would it be a good idea to maybe try and make developers a bit happier with
00:29:03 ◼ ► you again you know like there there is this is obviously something that is not lost on them like
00:29:08 ◼ ► i do not believe that apple are not aware of this right because one we're all talking about it all the
00:29:14 ◼ ► time and i know that they pay attention to the media but also they know more than anyone that
00:29:19 ◼ ► developers clearly were not interested in that platform and so what now you can never make another
00:29:25 ◼ ► platform like europe basically it has to be piggybacking on the iphone forever like that's not
00:29:30 ◼ ► that's not a good idea like you need i believe that they need to try and incentivize developers so maybe
00:29:37 ◼ ► you just take this as your time to just do that i don't know also i think i mean because you could
00:29:45 ◼ ► i'm sensitive to the argument that the first thing that the new ceo does is come in and announce a policy
00:29:52 ◼ ► that has the effect of decreasing revenue right yeah i i can understand and i've seen this argument
00:30:00 ◼ ► it's like well they'll never do that because that that's the last thing that the new ceo would want
00:30:05 ◼ ► to do but my counter argument would be you could also say that settling a bunch of lawsuits
00:30:12 ◼ ► reducing friction with the eu solving some political pressure in the u.s and also dealing with this in
00:30:20 ◼ ► other regions creating maybe a single worldwide apple policy that lowers the lowers the tension lowers the
00:30:29 ◼ ► the scrutiny being placed on apple in this moment is also beneficial to apple right that's my counter
00:30:37 ◼ ► argument is that it's not all i would argue in fact that one of the reasons we got here is because
00:30:44 ◼ ► apple's executives over emphasized the value of like app store revenue and some aspects of app store policy
00:30:54 ◼ ► and felt like they were worth more than all the stories in the media all the scrutiny from regulators
00:31:01 ◼ ► like and i don't believe that's true i i think apple makes so much money from so many different areas
00:31:09 ◼ ► that a small reduction not a vacant vacancy of of of of all that revenue a small reduction in one small revenue line
00:31:19 ◼ ► amid all the other revenue lines in exchange for reduced legal encumbrance and scrutiny
00:31:25 ◼ ► and maybe a better relationship with your third-party developers that you're trying to cultivate
00:31:33 ◼ ► maybe that's a better maybe that's a better story but he he may also like we don't know he may also feel like
00:31:40 ◼ ► that's an area that he doesn't have as much power over that like that's not where he wants to spend his
00:31:47 ◼ ► political capital is on um is on app store policy because he's got bigger fish to fry that's also possible
00:31:53 ◼ ► and then what about apple events then in terms of events yeah um again i mean i would say
00:32:09 ◼ ► because phil schiller's in charge of events and what great jaws react thinks because he's in charge of
00:32:14 ◼ ► product marketing they have experimented with a bunch of different ways of doing it i think
00:32:43 ◼ ► to those events and then they're yes they're just playing a video but they also have kind of an in-person
00:33:13 ◼ ► is that the way events are changing for apple is that you're going to see more things like the macbook neo
00:33:30 ◼ ► it was it was an event that happened for press and influencers and things yeah but there was also just a press release and a product video and then they moved on so i i i think that i i doubt there will be much immediate change in that area but i do think that they're always thinking of tinkering with the format because they just want to get the most publicity and exposure but for the new iphone i think the the way they've done it is probably the the way that they want to do it from now on
00:33:58 ◼ ► so tim cook is remaining around right he's while taking the world executive chairman is also involved in
00:34:07 ◼ ► some day-to-day operation of the business right like the political stuff is is a level of day-to-day operation so like he's not
00:34:14 ◼ ► gone um right how long do you think he's do you think this is i mean we'll get to some stuff that he said later on about being long-term but do you think this is
00:34:25 ◼ ► expected to be a long-term post i think he'll be there at least five years at least five okay and so
00:34:33 ◼ ► in that regard what do you think about like is is he gonna actually be able to let go or like is it gonna
00:34:41 ◼ ► be hard for turnus to like the previous he's right there you know the guy's right there well i okay
00:34:49 ◼ ► let me frame this differently if you're the ceo for 15 years yeah and then you've got your protege
00:34:57 ◼ ► that you're going to bring along and now you're going to be the executive chairman are you going
00:35:01 ◼ ► to be able to let it go yeah i think that's a good question is tim cook going to be disciplined enough
00:35:08 ◼ ► to allow john turnus to have the space to be his own ceo while focusing on the areas where he needs to
00:35:13 ◼ ► specifically focus as executive chairman i'm going to say he's going to have no problem with it
00:35:19 ◼ ► because he's tim cook and he strikes me as an incredibly disciplined person who wants to give
00:35:26 ◼ ► his successor the space to learn the job and so that's the difference there right it's like i think
00:35:31 ◼ ► it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say i don't know about this setup but i think about tim cook and
00:35:35 ◼ ► everything we know about tim cook and i i just don't think tim cook is going to be meddling in
00:35:41 ◼ ► john turnus's business i think he will they will be clear boundaries about like what he needs to
00:35:46 ◼ ► care about as a board member as the executive chairman of the board versus what the ceo will be doing and
00:36:00 ◼ ► is the job of the board is not to be the micromanager of the ceo or the executive director
00:36:09 ◼ ► in our case it it's not it's to be you know representing the shareholders due diligence advice
00:36:17 ◼ ► but it's not like the org chart go you know the the board is a human being that the ceo reports to
00:36:26 ◼ ► that's not that's not quite how it works and i think that i i just have a great deal of confidence
00:36:30 ◼ ► that part of this is all about tim cook giving john turnus the best runway being available for advice
00:36:37 ◼ ► but i just can't imagine that tim cook is like yeah i'm going to micromanage that guy i'm really going
00:36:41 ◼ ► to be in charge i just i can't see it yeah no it's a really good point about the discipline you know
00:36:45 ◼ ► it's like how i i wonder though like you know what it will feel like for turnus and also that there
00:36:49 ◼ ► are elements where it's going to be odd right he wants to make a change but then turnus has to go
00:36:53 ◼ ► sell it to india and china it's like what is what is that going to be like you know but i guess that's
00:36:58 ◼ ► the same as anybody working for the ceo which tim is going to have this strange role where he is the
00:37:04 ◼ ► executive chairman of the board but is also kind of like an a member of the team depending on what is
00:37:11 ◼ ► needed of him at any one time but yes i i think you've made a really great point that tim cook made
00:37:18 ◼ ► that decision so he's going to stick by it and then it's just up to john turnus to be able to
00:37:24 ◼ ► feel confident enough in himself that he will be able to tell tim what he's doing and what he's not
00:37:28 ◼ ► doing yeah and also let's be clear when they make that announcement that says tim cook is going to
00:37:35 ◼ ► still be involved in dealing with you know global issues etc etc and when donald trump comes out we miss
00:37:42 ◼ ► this part right like oh yeah day yeah and set and says oh i'm gonna miss tim apple cook all the all the
00:37:49 ◼ ► more but i'll still but he'll still be around and i'll still talk to him like this is what this is
00:37:54 ◼ ► literally the message apple is sending and i've seen people say like oh can can john turnus we may
00:38:00 ◼ ► get to some of this later can john turnus really avoid dealing with all the political issues and all
00:38:04 ◼ ► that it's like well this is this is what apple's setting up here is this announcement is very
00:38:08 ◼ ► literally like world leaders continue to call tim cook that's what it is and if they call john turnus
00:38:14 ◼ ► they're going to get tim cook right it's going to be like can i speak to john turnus yeah this is tim
00:38:18 ◼ ► yeah that's going to be it right like that's what how it's going to be yeah for those for those world
00:38:23 ◼ ► leaders that that's his bailiwick and you know that not only is that meant to insulate turnus but it's
00:38:29 ◼ ► also so when when i hear people say oh yeah but what's going to stop uh donald trump from calling up
00:38:34 ◼ ► john turnus the answer is going to be because donald trump doesn't want to talk to john turnus
00:38:38 ◼ ► he has a personal relationship with tim cook tim and he knows tim cook and he knows tim cook's the
00:38:46 ◼ ► i agree and i you know like i'm seeing it on his code he mentioned too i do i'll point this out again
00:38:52 ◼ ► i do think people are over indexing on trump in this scenario like it's not just him it's no it's
00:38:59 ◼ ► it's china it's every country around the world it's india yes and it is it is all of that where
00:39:06 ◼ ► because cook has got those relationships yes and that that is i mean trump is is the one that's
00:39:11 ◼ ► especially for americans the most visible but there are there are lots and that is a whole part of the
00:39:16 ◼ ► business that honestly not only does cook have the contacts there but it would take years more for
00:39:22 ◼ ► turnus to get up to speed with him and i'm sure that's part of the deal but like that's one of the
00:39:27 ◼ ► reasons this is happening is that tim cook can take that load when he's learning other stuff
00:39:32 ◼ ► and then gradually he will learn it over time so that he can take it over for from tim it's like in
00:39:37 ◼ ► 15 years time if john turnus has had a good stewardship of the company and has built relationships with the
00:39:44 ◼ ► world leaders i expect this to go exactly the same for the next person because this it's relationships
00:39:50 ◼ ► and apple has the ability to manage these relationships effectively and it's like i as the
00:39:57 ◼ ► leaders change i don't expect him to continue working with new people but for as long as they
00:40:03 ◼ ► remain and in some parts of the world that could be a very long time for some of these people
00:40:07 ◼ ► it makes sense to have some some level of continuity for a period of time until turnus is like
00:40:14 ◼ ► in that world too and it's also like if you have the ability to not have to give him everything to
00:40:21 ◼ ► deal with on day one then yeah you should do that that's the whole idea here this episode is brought to
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00:42:39 ◼ ► so we've got some additional reporting uh obviously happened after we spoke last week so mark german has
00:42:49 ◼ ► shared some quotes from an all hands meeting that um the outgoing and incoming ceos did together at apple
00:42:56 ◼ ► so tim shared that he was quote healthy and plans to serve as executive chairman for a long time
00:43:03 ◼ ► so uh the idea of sharing the healthy part is interesting right it's like they didn't mention
00:43:11 ◼ ► this really anywhere and yeah i can't remember which podcast i was listening to i've listened to lots
00:43:15 ◼ ► of them now uh but saying that like this seems to maybe have been something they wanted to get out
00:43:20 ◼ ► there because it wasn't mentioned and maybe they didn't need to think about that but now tim is saying
00:43:25 ◼ ► like don't worry i'm all good um he also said i'll be here to offer my knowledge and experience and be
00:43:31 ◼ ► a sounding board anytime i'm called upon apple will be my top priority it's who i am at my core and i
00:43:37 ◼ ► can't imagine it any other way yep sounds about right yeah on the political side he said this is an area
00:43:44 ◼ ► where we've built relationships over multiple years and a decade plus and i think i can help with that
00:43:49 ◼ ► and i'll probably help on some other things that is so nebulous right like ah some other stuff
00:43:55 ◼ ► i'll be i'll be doing web objects i'll be adjusting the the what is it i'll be in cafe max
00:44:01 ◼ ► checking the pizzas out you know i'll be looking at uh you know the the machining on the factory
00:44:07 ◼ ► and i'll be popping up i'll be popping up yeah uh this is a quote from mark garman cook was asked
00:44:14 ◼ ► why he decided now was the time to step down he said he desired the best ever transition which means
00:44:20 ◼ ► that the business had to be going great the product map the roadmap had to be incredible
00:44:24 ◼ ► and for turners to be ready for the role he said he wanted the transition to be a textbook succession
00:44:30 ◼ ► plan the best in the world and i hope that business schools and so forth are writing about it
00:44:34 ◼ ► yep this is what i've been saying yeah you're right tim tim cook wants the best transition and and i'll
00:44:42 ◼ ► just say you know he didn't get it and he wants it and i get why like i i totally get it uh and that's
00:44:48 ◼ ► what they're going for here is tim cook didn't want to stick around because keep in mind every year
00:44:55 ◼ ► i mean reasonably let's just view it this way every year he stays as ceo is one fewer year maybe that
00:45:01 ◼ ► he can be uh in a mentorship executive chairman role and i think he doesn't want to make it that like
00:45:07 ◼ ► well i'm gonna stay longer and then i'm just gonna say later and disappear after a year like he doesn't
00:45:14 ◼ ► want that also there's the other thing here is turn us to be ready for the role right like you also
00:45:23 ◼ ► don't want it to be that tim cook says i gotta go i i got a thing and john turnus was like well wait
00:45:29 ◼ ► i'm not ready right you want to hit the timing right where things look good and you think the guy who's
00:45:35 ◼ ► going to take the seat is is ready for it because if you wait too long he's going to be impatient
00:45:41 ◼ ► maybe he'll even go somewhere else who knows or be unhappy um so you got to get the timing right
00:45:47 ◼ ► and part of the timing is is he ready i i don't get the sense from anyone here that john turnus
00:45:52 ◼ ► isn't ready for this job because if he wasn't they would just wait and do it later right like
00:45:59 ◼ ► they're doing it now because i think now is the optimal time and i if there's anybody who's focused
00:46:04 ◼ ► on the optimal it's tim cook but and that readiness may have also been kind of functional of like all
00:46:09 ◼ ► right we've made the decision now let's have john spend some time with every team you know like
00:46:14 ◼ ► let's have him go and really understand what's going on in deirdre o'brien's team and let's go have
00:46:19 ◼ ► him really understand you know like just spending that time now right between now and september there
00:46:24 ◼ ► may be a bunch of that going on yeah exactly yeah so that there'll be bits and bobs that they can do
00:46:29 ◼ ► without causing too much attention and then some that they will do from now but like start having
00:46:34 ◼ ► this guy and also like his overall visibility has changed right where like as you mentioned with the
00:46:41 ◼ ► neil but even before then he's giving more interviews and he is being the person speaking
00:46:47 ◼ ► about products more so like giving him a bit more experience in this world but also visibility amongst
00:46:53 ◼ ► the media etc right so like he is kind of becoming more of a a public presence such and then john turnus
00:47:03 ◼ ► said he was especially excited to be stepping into the role at this moment he said because i am telling
00:47:08 ◼ ► you we are about to change the world once again i'm not exaggerating when i say this is the most
00:47:24 ◼ ► right like as we spoke about before you you you if you're tim cook a great time to do this is if
00:47:31 ◼ ► there's about to be a bunch of change if they've got some products that they're really excited about
00:47:35 ◼ ► and that can be hardware and software and should be right that like if they've really cracked apple
00:47:40 ◼ ► intelligence and are feeling good about that excellent time to do it and if they have a bunch
00:47:44 ◼ ► of iphones or macs on the horizon that they think are really good also a great time to do it and so
00:47:49 ◼ ► turnus may be correct this might be the most exciting time possible for him to have done this
00:47:55 ◼ ► which coincides with it's also the exact perfect time to make the transition sure i will also say
00:48:01 ◼ ► apple always says that the pipeline they have is the most exciting and amazing one ever wouldn't you say
00:48:06 ◼ ► jason that every year is more exciting than the last i think that they would i think that that's that's
00:48:12 ◼ ► the the case and i see people it's like oh what does he mean it's like well he means that he's
00:48:16 ◼ ► saying positive things about the future to wall street and to everybody else but you know maybe
00:48:21 ◼ ► he's also thinking about that folding the possibility is there though right stuff even the stuff we know
00:48:26 ◼ ► about suggests that the possibility could be there that like if they can actually nail those products
00:48:31 ◼ ► and make them all really good you know like this year's iphone next year's iphone which could both
00:48:36 ◼ ► be big deals and touchscreen macbook pros and some home stuff whatever's going on with the macbook neo
00:48:45 ◼ ► whatever's going on with the macbook like there is a possibility in which that could be accurate just
00:48:49 ◼ ► based on what we know and so it's exciting to hear him say it we also have more information from mark
00:48:56 ◼ ► german about johnny shruji and kind of the position that he is in now as chief hardware officer so
00:49:02 ◼ ► apparently following up from his previous reporting at the end of last year johnny shruji
00:49:06 ◼ ► approached tim cook to say that he was considering leaving apple after feeling burned out from leading
00:49:11 ◼ ► the silicon team which has been a very big job very relentless work and also there's a lot of reporting
00:49:16 ◼ ► about like in sorry there's a lot of reporting in mark's piece about shruji being quite a hard leader
00:49:23 ◼ ► and so maybe if you're yeah that is tiring maybe on him um that that and apparently that people said
00:49:29 ◼ ► maybe it might be some people that are surprised with the change in leadership from turnus to shruji
00:49:40 ◼ ► um and so apparently cook offered him quote a massive new compensation package and he brought a role as
00:49:46 ◼ ► apple's first chief hardware officer that job which combines shruji's old role and turnus's current
00:49:53 ◼ ► oversight of hardware engineering this is what mark says effectively makes him the number two
00:49:58 ◼ ► executive at apple now when i read that i was like all right mark come on but then i started thinking
00:50:04 ◼ ► about it right so in tim's era the ceo is number one and the chief operating officer is number two which
00:50:13 ◼ ► is pretty standard for a business but i was thinking that like well to tim the most important person other
00:50:22 ◼ ► in him is the person running operations because that's who he is as a person to john turnus
00:50:28 ◼ ► is the person running hardware the second most important person at the company it's like from that
00:50:35 ◼ ► perspective i could see it but just in general i don't agree right like but yeah well being in charge
00:50:44 ◼ ► of apple silicon and hardware does i think functionally make you the second most important person at apple
00:50:51 ◼ ► because of what you're in charge of but that's more about the details of the contents not about the
00:51:05 ◼ ► like no way um so okay like sure it is a it is a major it is a major role but there's no doubt
00:51:17 ◼ ► about it we we don't need to count like any q's job is also important so it's great job so jobs right
00:51:23 ◼ ► jobs is important is incredibly important to apple so absolutely they're all important they're all they're
00:51:29 ◼ ► important to me but apple leadership page it is a cheap it is a c-suite position which we've we keep
00:51:36 ◼ ► talking about it is that is an important deal i don't know what that says about the future
00:51:40 ◼ ► um and i really hope that shruji is in this not following the same route that johnny took when he got his
00:51:49 ◼ ► c-suite position so we'll see so johnny shruji is going to be splitting the new hardware organization
00:51:56 ◼ ► into five distinct teams uh into his new role so we have five leaders that we have names for all of
00:52:02 ◼ ► them so tom mariab tom was picked by turnus to succeed him so he will take the role as head of
00:52:10 ◼ ► hardware engineering but this now goes into johnny shruji did this but this role will not report to
00:52:16 ◼ ► the ceo anymore right repeat report to the chief hardware officer who reports to the ceo yep we have
00:52:23 ◼ ► stri santhanam who will head up the silicon team so you assume you know this is like shruji's right
00:52:30 ◼ ► hand person right yeah to kind of take this on friend of the show tim malay will run platform
00:52:37 ◼ ► architecture yay tim has been on the show multiple times tim yes standing invitation to return
00:52:44 ◼ ► whenever you like tim tim's brother listens to upgrade right yeah so so brother malay you can tell
00:52:50 ◼ ► tim that he is a standing invitation to return but but we're also tim has been very present for a long
00:52:56 ◼ ► time uh in apple keynotes um as the person who tends to explain the chip and what it can do yes uh we
00:53:03 ◼ ► then have zhong jian zong jian zong jian chen who will be in charge of advanced technologies i don't
00:53:10 ◼ ► know what that means i don't know and donny nordhughes who will run program management i also don't know
00:53:16 ◼ ► what that means yeah that's okay but that's this is not my area of expertise uh the other ones i can work
00:53:22 ◼ ► out this is these two that's why exactly exactly so i clearly cannot do this job so there we go we have
00:53:28 ◼ ► we have people now we can't really do much with that but it's interesting to have those names they're
00:53:32 ◼ ► names that we now have in the rolodex as such so that is all the additional information that we have
00:53:39 ◼ ► uh i have some questions that i want to get to from upgradians about about tim but i wanted to ask
00:53:45 ◼ ► any additional areas of speculation that you may have ah so you know my one and i'm going to say it
00:53:52 ◼ ► again i said it last time i say it again i'm going to keep saying it forever i think there will be more
00:53:56 ◼ ► c-suite positions in the future that is my my thing that i think is going to happen because it would be
00:54:01 ◼ ► very strange to me to just have johnny seruji elevated um because that is going to start hurting
00:54:07 ◼ ► some feelings if that's the case um but what about you do you have any other areas that you you wanted
00:54:13 ◼ ► to touch on um i want to say that when you've got hardware ascendant in the organization and the head
00:54:20 ◼ ► software has not been promoted and that there's been some issues on the software side that i would
00:54:26 ◼ ► say there's a spotlight on craig federighi and he has to execute especially the gemini integration
00:54:35 ◼ ► siri kind of thing but we also know that like those home products that john turnis likes so much
00:54:42 ◼ ► have been held up because of software issues now now i think you could argue that it was because of
00:54:49 ◼ ► ai issues that were really the responsibility of john gian andrea who is gone now because of that
00:54:56 ◼ ► and that that's not on federighi but it's on federighi to deliver and i would say i don't i don't know
00:55:03 ◼ ► because i don't have inside information about this but i would say that if federighi is not on the hot
00:55:09 ◼ ► seat i would say what i said the spotlight is on him and i do think he needs to deliver because
00:55:17 ◼ ► i think in an in an area where you've got this incredible hardware and these incredible chips
00:55:25 ◼ ► and at least for those of us who look closely we feel like the software side is just not operating on
00:55:32 ◼ ► the same level yeah as the rest of apple's business from that perspective you would think that the person
00:55:38 ◼ ► in charge of software would be scrutinized now i don't know right like i what the personal relationships
00:55:48 ◼ ► are and what the strengths are uh that craig federighi brings to the table and and how he's perceived and
00:55:54 ◼ ► like all of that i don't know and so it's a complex issue but i would just say as an outsider i look at that
00:56:02 ◼ ► and say i think i feel like craig federighi as a person and also the software organization as a whole
00:56:07 ◼ ► feels like is going to be under a lot of scrutiny but i also feel like the ai reset where the ai
00:56:14 ◼ ► stuff was kind of happening off on the side and now it's been integrated into the organization i feel
00:56:19 ◼ ► like um that hits the reset button a little bit but still it's super it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't
00:56:27 ◼ ► erase what's gone on before so yeah i think that that's going to be an issue my kind of my optimist's
00:56:34 ◼ ► take on this in the way that i could imagine this going uh is that the 27 operating systems deliver
00:56:41 ◼ ► i think they should be able to deliver because they will be using models that everybody knows are good
00:56:49 ◼ ► and apple just has to implement them correctly so i'm assuming that they deliver and i believe that
00:56:55 ◼ ► if they do and they're received well then craig federighi is elevated to chief software officer
00:57:00 ◼ ► by the end of the year that that's what i think will happen but it is it's predicated on it working
00:57:07 ◼ ► but i think it will work i do i i as we stand here right now i've been a bit a big debbie downer about
00:57:14 ◼ ► apple intelligence i think for for good reason for the last couple of years but i believe that they
00:57:21 ◼ ► will that they will be able to pull something together this year i still don't think that the
00:57:26 ◼ ► things that we saw at wwdc 2024 will ship uh because i think that they were completely fake
00:57:33 ◼ ► things created with hope um but i think that they in the meantime will have had some some features that
00:57:39 ◼ ► do work and that will work well and they will implement them correctly across the operating systems
00:57:45 ◼ ► but the wwdc 24 stuff i just don't know if it's feasible at all and so i'm not expecting that to
00:57:52 ◼ ► to occur but i just think if if federighi can actually pull some stuff together and change the
00:58:01 ◼ ► perception of apple in ai i think that will be a bit of a win for him but we'll have to see yeah we'll
00:58:08 ◼ ► see the the other thing that came out of german's report that i thought was interesting is mike rockwell
00:58:12 ◼ ► who launched the who who got the vision pro to ship and now i see people saying like oh he's no good
00:58:17 ◼ ► he did the vision pro it's like he got that product out the door i think that's a miracle um mike rockwell
00:58:23 ◼ ► is on the he's been tasked with siri right but also the report from german is that like he's been
00:58:30 ◼ ► angling for like a promotion and maybe like a cto kind of role i don't know quite what's going on there
00:58:38 ◼ ► but this is this is an interesting example where you've got some people who are well thought of
00:58:42 ◼ ► um who are in kind of nebulous positions and have been given tasks to perform and it i don't know
00:58:49 ◼ ► whether it's a power struggle or whether i don't know quite what's going on here but that's the other
00:58:53 ◼ ► thing to watch because like mike rock if siri integration goes well is rockwell the one whose
00:58:58 ◼ ► reputation is burnished by that yeah and can they keep him do they want to keep him because it's the
00:59:03 ◼ ► again it's the alan die thing it's like you know does his opinion of his prowess match that of
00:59:12 ◼ ► management and i don't know but um but he seems you know he seems based on reports like a pretty
00:59:19 ◼ ► remarkable person but that doesn't necessarily mean that he was brought in as a fixer in two areas
00:59:25 ◼ ► right so they must think of him well right it's like you are a fixer right but if he comes in and
00:59:31 ◼ ► says well i'm really disappointed if i'm not given a c-suite position then you're like well i'm sorry
00:59:35 ◼ ► and that might be enough to make him leave even if they like him like that's always the challenge with
00:59:39 ◼ ► this sort of thing but this is another reason why i i hope for and can imagine larger executive change
00:59:47 ◼ ► like by creating these new roles like seruji has you just created five team leads now like you can
00:59:54 ◼ ► create new roles for people to get increased visibility in the organization and move up
01:00:00 ◼ ► right so that like sure in 10 years time friend of the show tim millay is the chief harbor officer
01:00:06 ◼ ► right or or whatever it might end up being i think that you apple needs to the people that are on that
01:00:14 ◼ ► leadership page have been on that leadership page forever yeah they have to start creating new people
01:00:18 ◼ ► that could could move in or they end up leaving and that's not great for the future of the organization
01:00:24 ◼ ► when you have somebody new in john turner's in place maybe that creates opportunity to kind of start
01:00:29 ◼ ► moving people out and up without firing people right like that maybe don't need to be fired except for
01:00:35 ◼ ► the fact that you want to have some fresh faces and so we can we can start kind of laying the groundwork
01:00:41 ◼ ► i've got some questions alan wrote in and said to either of you see an official biography of the
01:00:47 ◼ ► infamously private tim cook ever being produced if so is there someone you would see him trusting to
01:00:53 ◼ ► write that story like steve jobs did of walter isaacson it seems wild that someone who can make the case for
01:00:58 ◼ ► the greatest ceo of all time might go down in history as essentially an enigma i'm gonna say i i think that
01:01:05 ◼ ► before all is said and done there will be a semi-official if not official tim cook book
01:01:10 ◼ ► but it will be it won't be a cookbook i mean by definition it will be a cookbook but it's not
01:01:16 ◼ ► gonna be recipes from tim you're gonna have a storm i'm gonna tell you what it's gonna be it's gonna be
01:01:22 ◼ ► this is my prediction it is going to be a lessons learned my life and my challenges and how that it's
01:01:34 ◼ ► gonna be a business book that's what i'm gonna that that's that's what i'm gonna say it is it's gonna you're
01:01:39 ◼ ► gonna the people who yearn for a like a heartfelt biography about like tim cook and his you know
01:01:46 ◼ ► his life and and and i think you will be disappointed because i do think it's gonna be that the the when i
01:01:54 ◼ ► think of what's the book that tim cook participates in it's gonna be like apple university for tim cook
01:02:00 ◼ ► it's gonna be tim cook and how lessons from his life informed his understanding of business that's
01:02:07 ◼ ► my prediction and i will eventually be that so bad because look everything we know about tim is that
01:02:14 ◼ ► there really isn't much else to say and like and that seems to be the choices of his life that he cares
01:02:20 ◼ ► about work he cares about business he seems to put his entire being into that well and when he shares
01:02:27 ◼ ► biographical information it's often in the context of either a business understanding or a core value
01:02:35 ◼ ► that is applied to the business and so i can i can see a whole book that's about that so not just like
01:02:41 ◼ ► how i learned about this thing that made me think that it's great to not have any uh you know excess
01:02:48 ◼ ► inventory in the channel right it is also like you know in the south i learned this lesson that is important
01:02:55 ◼ ► and it's why i'm committed to this uh particular set of values like i but i can see that as a that kind
01:03:03 ◼ ► of a book that that's what i predict logan wrote in and says as stated in his community letter tim cook
01:03:10 ◼ ► is famous for getting up every morning and reading emails from customers tim's email is public information
01:03:15 ◼ ► but turnus's isn't as of now do you think that john turnus will make his email public so he can continue
01:03:20 ◼ ► this direct line of customer feedback people are just gonna gonna um email all possibilities of
01:03:27 ◼ ► turnus and see what they he's going to get john at apple.com i'm sorry for whoever has that yeah you're
01:03:33 ◼ ► going to lose that email address right by the way i i'm i'm pretty confident that that there is a staff
01:03:40 ◼ ► who is the gatekeeper to the email and then passes the email to tim because i've seen a lot of people
01:03:45 ◼ ► say oh you think that they they've only feed tim good stuff but no no he also sees the bad stuff it's
01:03:51 ◼ ► yeah they also feed him the bad stuff yeah he still has he is not reading the fire holes of email
01:03:56 ◼ ► no he's going to tim at apple.com it's a curated subset but he sees a spread of all of it clearly
01:04:03 ◼ ► there will be a you know ceo at apple.com or john at apple.com that will be go go into the executive
01:04:11 ◼ ► assistant pool and will be curated and passed to john turnus uh or his uh either that or the first
01:04:20 ◼ ► time he appears at the iphone event his little credit will say john turnus ceo don't email me
01:04:27 ◼ ► don't email me don't want one of those no because the thing is this is a this will continue because it's
01:04:33 ◼ ► not a tim cook thing jobs did it too like this is a i think time on a tradition now that like
01:04:40 ◼ ► essentially it's possible to receive an email from the ceo of apple like it you know they they wrote
01:04:47 ◼ ► them differently but it's it's possible like it is a thing that can happen and will continue to happen
01:04:54 ◼ ► so i expect that there will be a john at apple.com email address probably and an anonymous person wrote
01:05:03 ◼ ► in and says is it delusional to think that turnus would not get dragged into the politics even with
01:05:08 ◼ ► cook taking ownership no because they won't let it i mean that that i i i think i don't think it's
01:05:15 ◼ ► delusional i think that they are going to make a concerted effort to not that that tim cook is going
01:05:20 ◼ ► to be the voice of that and and people might try but i don't think they're gonna succeed
01:05:25 ◼ ► interesting see i think that i think that he will and he should be i don't i think it's ridiculous to
01:05:32 ◼ ► think that that he won't be involved like he's not going to be interfacing maybe what is the dragged into
01:05:39 ◼ ► is it i mean like i got an email today that dragged john turnus into politics because i got an email today
01:05:45 ◼ ► from the union that represents the people at the closed uh towson maryland uh apple store that was
01:05:52 ◼ ► the first unionized apple store and they they're apple shutting it down along with a couple other
01:05:56 ◼ ► stores yep and they are doing like a a press conference and they the entire like angle that
01:06:03 ◼ ► of their story pitches as apple undergoes an executive transition is it time for apple's
01:06:10 ◼ ► new executive team to change the way it handles its workers right like it's obviously it's a very
01:06:17 ◼ ► self-serving it's from the union but but um so that's it is that dragged into well then i guess
01:06:22 ◼ ► i mean are people going to be able to point at politics and point at john turnus sure but i would
01:06:26 ◼ ► say in terms of apple's engagement with it apple has the ability to just not engage with john turnus
01:06:32 ◼ ► over that stuff and engage with other people if if putting a picture of john turnus up and pointing at it
01:06:37 ◼ ► saying see shame politics then sure but like i i would say that there is a real power in in controlling
01:06:47 ◼ ► where your executives go and what they say and who says it and i think apple is going to be pretty
01:06:52 ◼ ► disciplined about that for a while i think i'm looking at it more from the functional side not from
01:06:57 ◼ ► the world side like of people like pointing like like for example if xi jinping is meeting with tim cook
01:07:05 ◼ ► and he's like i would like john turnus to be there too they're not gonna like say no right like they'll
01:07:12 ◼ ► manage it the best that they can but ultimately yeah maybe he goes along but he doesn't really do the
01:07:16 ◼ ► talking tim does the talking okay i i consider their possible a scenario in which he is involved as he
01:07:23 ◼ ► should be as the ceo of the company but not in that he's the person necessarily dealing with it in the
01:07:30 ◼ ► same way that he wouldn't be dealing with the application of new hr procedures which would be
01:07:36 ◼ ► deirdre o'brien's role to do but it's not like he's not going to know about it if it's something he needs
01:07:40 ◼ ► to know about that's kind of what i'm getting at more but like i guess the dragged in part seems to
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01:10:02 ◼ ► we have uh some rumor roundup jason so uh mac world is reporting that a source in the supply chain has
01:10:13 ◼ ► shared with them the color options for the pro iphone this year well that's exciting we have light blue
01:10:20 ◼ ► it's described as somewhat similar to the current mist blue color of the base iphone 17
01:10:26 ◼ ► dark cherry described as a deep wine-like red not a bright fruit punch style red silver this is
01:10:36 ◼ ► described as similar to the iphone 17 pro's silver and white design and a dark gray um so i've also
01:10:42 ◼ ► pulled some of this information from nine to five mac who have an image as well that they've kind of made
01:10:46 ◼ ► like a render so well i have to say goodbye to our friend orange it looks like but i personally i like
01:10:55 ◼ ► the look of that that light blue that looks really fun i like the look of that if that's the way it looks
01:10:59 ◼ ► like a real color i mean we'll see how it looks like in person and i the the uh dark cherry
01:11:05 ◼ ► i'm sorry that that feels very much like the classic color not a color yeah from apple it's like
01:11:12 ◼ ► it's a red tinted black yeah whereas the light blue is uh at least in this concept in this image
01:11:22 ◼ ► and we should say mac world got this right last time same writer got this right last time so um
01:11:26 ◼ ► that that looks like something that's that's noticeable and that you'll be like oh that's the
01:11:31 ◼ ► new iphone blue i see yep yeah i uh i dig the blue i agree with you that the the i just i'm just not
01:11:39 ◼ ► a fan of that that kind of purpley reddish winish color it's just not for me but it feels like what
01:11:45 ◼ ► the blue was for this year's phones this past year's phone 17 right where it was like very dark
01:11:52 ◼ ► so it's like a hint of a color i'm happy to bring it back essentially a black phone i think that was a
01:11:58 ◼ ► a bit of a miss from the lineup like just to have silver i think they should have also had a darker
01:12:03 ◼ ► color but not at the expense of there being two colors so two colors two neutrals i think that's
01:12:09 ◼ ► a great lineup and i'm excited about the blue i'll miss the orange but i'm happy to get something
01:12:20 ◼ ► uh mark goman has also shared that he expects the touchscreen macbook pro will most likely ship in early
01:12:35 ◼ ► yeah it's funny because he's been hedging i mean honestly right from the beginning when he was talking
01:12:40 ◼ ► about this he said it could be as early 27 it's steven and i on the liftoff podcast always used to
01:12:47 ◼ ► joke that whenever anybody talked about a mission that was probably headed for for q4 what we would
01:12:53 ◼ ► always say is q4 is q1 like q4 is q1 it's just so easy to push those back um and since the beginning
01:13:01 ◼ ► german was like maybe ended they're targeting into the year but it might be next year so clearly it was
01:13:07 ◼ ► one of those things where it's like even the faintest gust of wind would send it over the edge
01:13:23 ◼ ► interesting and or really good uh to have a touchscreen mac um and so i'm waiting but i would
01:13:32 ◼ ► love i would love to have a little bit more ram and a little bit more storage than i do in my macbook
01:13:37 ◼ ► air um my m2 macbook air which is also it's uh it's feeling its age it's showing its age a little bit
01:13:43 ◼ ► a computer so i really would like i'd like it a lot and i would also uh so in my i've been going
01:13:49 ◼ ► through this ongoing um disaster of backups which i've been chronicling on the connector podcast
01:13:54 ◼ ► and so i now have a my old mac pro my m1 macbook pro i've been running um as a to do some backups and
01:14:04 ◼ ► to back up my uh dropbox account and stuff like that and i have remembered how much i enjoy a high
01:14:19 ◼ ► wow finally getting your money's worth there well i know because i'm not plugged it into the studio
01:14:23 ◼ ► display no no so i look forward to eventually being able to have a laptop that can drive my studio
01:14:31 ◼ ► display xdr correctly as well that'd be nice yeah so uh that will be yeah i'm excited about all of that
01:14:37 ◼ ► but then it'll be so funny that i'll finally have the display specs that i want but then it will be a
01:14:43 ◼ ► touchscreen that will just be closed uh whenever i'm at the studio but i do use my mac i've been using
01:14:48 ◼ ► my mac more and more at home recently rather than my ipad for work stuff like i use my ipad for all kinds
01:14:55 ◼ ► of things but for a while i was using my ipad pro for any kind of work stuff but now i have this feeling
01:15:02 ◼ ► of like i'm just gonna get my macbook out of my bag it's just i i know i'm just gonna be able to do
01:15:08 ◼ ► whatever i need to do easier and quicker using the macbook um and so i've just been i've been jumping for
01:15:14 ◼ ► that like love my ipad pro use it for all kinds of stuff but if it's a work thing of any description i just
01:15:25 ◼ ► macbook neo you know like every time well you know macbook neo you know so every time every time there's
01:15:33 ◼ ► any kind of i was like you know macbook neo it's a macbook pro macbook neo you know macbook pro could
01:15:39 ◼ ► i'd be bringing the macbook pro home every day but i could just use the macbook neo right
01:15:44 ◼ ► a long time ago we had discussed apple suing john prosser over the manner in which prosser leaked
01:15:52 ◼ ► information about ios 26 which was essentially allegedly i'll say allegedly paying someone to
01:16:00 ◼ ► break into a roommate's iphone and that roommate worked to apple and uh show john prosser information
01:16:07 ◼ ► and pay them for it uh and then we'll also follow it up by talking about process seeming
01:16:13 ◼ ► lack of cooperation with the court this seems with this case continues and this um inconsistent
01:16:21 ◼ ► cooperation over this lawsuit can also seems to be continuing so mac rumors is reporting that
01:16:26 ◼ ► recent filings suggest that prosser is only partially cooperating quote while he has provided some
01:16:33 ◼ ► responsive materials he has failed to fully respond to certain requests and has not responded at all to
01:16:40 ◼ ► others apple's lawyers are essentially asking the judge to force prosser to explain why he is not
01:16:46 ◼ ► being forthright and provide the documentation process co-defendant michael ramacchiotti appears to be
01:16:54 ◼ ► continuing to do all that has been asked of him thus far and it looks like a potential settlement is on
01:17:01 ◼ ► the cards between him and apple because of this i'll also say jay peters at the verge had a really good
01:17:07 ◼ ► feature story about the whole ordeal so if you're like trying to catch up with what's going on here
01:17:12 ◼ ► uh peters and also peters spoke to prosser of certain times uh to try and get um information which
01:17:19 ◼ ► process seems to be like i would say maybe in in a way that feels accurate the type of person he portrays
01:17:27 ◼ ► himself on his youtube channel is like saying things that aren't at all backed up in what is going on in
01:17:34 ◼ ► the court filings of like it's like oh i'm fully cooperating but then apple and the court are saying
01:17:40 ◼ ► that he isn't so i i still like at the time like struggle to get my head around this because it
01:18:11 ◼ ► process videos and like you know for the research for this article and he's like you can see
01:18:16 ◼ ► that while he continues to to to do the leaks the process in which he is reporting appears to have
01:18:21 ◼ ► adapted a little bit that like he is trying to hedge a little bit more so maybe he's trying to
01:18:26 ◼ ► at least not pulling these exact tricks but i find this a fascinating story to keep track of
01:18:44 ◼ ► saying i i did have a thought about him continuing to post stories about apple rumors which is
01:18:50 ◼ ► one of the things apple i think wants to try to do is get him to stop reporting about apple
01:18:58 ◼ ► yeah one that was one of the things apple was was seeking right was to right to force him to stop so
01:19:04 ◼ ► i do wonder if one of the pieces of advice assuming he's got you know actual legal counsel one of the
01:19:11 ◼ ► pieces of advice is you need to continue to post what you post so that we can and again not a lawyer here
01:19:20 ◼ ► but i just i wonder if it's so that we can say this is part of your profession this is part of your your channel
01:19:28 ◼ ► this is your business that you've built and that that um it's active and that you are continuing to do it
01:19:36 ◼ ► and that you know to make the argument essentially like don't take this active part of his business away
01:19:42 ◼ ► like to to make the argument that saying never report about apple anymore is going to do more
01:19:46 ◼ ► damage to his business than is justified because fundamentally it's a big question it's a big thing
01:19:52 ◼ ► to ask to say um in the united states where we have a first amendment to say we want to bar this person
01:19:59 ◼ ► from their speech and having it be in his business and an act of publishing that is happening on an
01:20:07 ◼ ► ongoing basis i wonder if that's like the maybe even the lawyer saying you need to keep posting
01:20:12 ◼ ► because you need to stay keep your business active because that's part of our argument or the the the
01:20:19 ◼ ► concern here is that this guy is like posting through it and is not getting good advice so i guess we'll find
01:20:30 ◼ ► out but it is it is very weird also given the the the other defendant who seems to you know arguably have
01:20:38 ◼ ► done the had the worst behavior here is the one i mean maybe that's why that's the one who's like
01:20:43 ◼ ► going to apple and trying to negotiate a settlement and all of that but i it is it is a little bit weird
01:20:49 ◼ ► and i appreciate j peter's at the verge checking in about it but it's a very strange situation yeah like
01:20:56 ◼ ► there was this one part again like i've i've had i had to do a bunch of google in this morning to try
01:21:01 ◼ ► and understand some terms right but there was this one part in in j peter's article that i find
01:21:07 ◼ ► okay i don't understand how the law works but a clerk entered a default against the process earlier that
01:21:14 ◼ ► month after he repeatedly failed to respond to apple's complaint the company said in a filing that
01:21:19 ◼ ► process had been served personally in july 29th 2025 had missed the august 19th deadline apple gets to
01:21:25 ◼ ► continue its case against prov process and ramakiyoti only now process can't participate in his own
01:21:31 ◼ ► defense yeah we talked about this before and i think that there's this this idea that they will be able
01:21:39 ◼ ► to move the court to set aside a that default judgment and that they will engage in the case but it is a
01:21:46 ◼ ► very weird situation that you that you let it get to that point and that it still seems kind of unclear
01:21:51 ◼ ► about what's going on with his defense of yeah this and that it's like okay so that happened and you're
01:21:57 ◼ ► like oh we're gonna try and get him to push that aside but also we're not still fully not participating
01:22:02 ◼ ► i just all of it to me it's just like it just feels it just feels so disastrous the whole thing
01:22:08 ◼ ► and like i agree with what you're saying about like um there being a first amendment and you know
01:22:14 ◼ ► maybe he's he's continuing to pause for that reason but like from apple's perspective it's like
01:22:19 ◼ ► they obviously see what he does as something different because of the methods in which it came
01:22:28 ◼ ► and from their perspective they just want to stop him right like they just right but this is the thing
01:22:34 ◼ ► is there's there's what he did and there's the harm that it caused and that you could argue that's
01:22:38 ◼ ► illegal i'm personally skeptical of the idea that you you run from that to this person is barred from
01:22:46 ◼ ► performing their act as a journalist yeah which you know we can we can debate it but like let's just
01:22:53 ◼ ► say that john prosser is a journalist we might not like him we might not like what he does whatever
01:23:00 ◼ ► but let's say it like that is a to me a very different argument the idea that and that's what
01:23:07 ◼ ► what in the original reports about this jumped out at me is apple wants him to never write about apple or
01:23:12 ◼ ► report about apple ever again i'm like i don't know like i don't think the law barring a person from
01:23:21 ◼ ► speaking i'm i'm really really skeptical about that because that gets to whole like freedom of speech
01:23:29 ◼ ► issues that are separate from did he induce these people to break their contracts and and potentially
01:23:37 ◼ ► even pay them to induce them to break these contracts to do things that you mean that that's not legal
01:23:43 ◼ ► but that's not necessarily the same as saying and now this person is barred from a whole area of
01:23:47 ◼ ► speech that that's like another another aspect of it not lawyers just saying as a journalist i find that
01:23:53 ◼ ► troubling yeah it's a mess it is absolutely a mess and i i'm still every time this pops up every few
01:24:02 ◼ ► months i still can't believe that it's continuing and and that it hasn't been resolved yet i can't i
01:24:07 ◼ ► can't believe that john prosser doesn't seem to be portrayed as being an active participant in these
01:24:11 ◼ ► affairs that's the part that really gets me exactly it's like that's the part that baffles me it's not
01:24:15 ◼ ► that there are lawyers jousting about this in court but that john prosser then is sort of mentioned as
01:24:22 ◼ ► being like well you know maybe he'll be involved or not which is i don't know what's going on there but
01:24:28 ◼ ► i guess eventually we'll find out yeah and like my favorite part um in in j peter's is uh piece is
01:24:57 ◼ ► this episode is brought to you by steam clock a lot of mobile apps get the job done but they aren't exactly
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01:26:14 ◼ ► it's time to finish out on some ask upgrade questions this first one comes in from mark who says do you ever
01:26:25 ◼ ► imagine yourself being in a similar situation as someone like mark german where you have a secret
01:26:30 ◼ ► source in apple supply chain and you were the one breaking the rumors that everyone's talking about
01:26:35 ◼ ► are you comfortable with your level of analysis where you break down the possibilities of the
01:26:39 ◼ ► rumors and come up with your own theories well i want to say well i mean mark german has more than
01:26:47 ◼ ► supply chain sources he's got cupertino sources yeah big sources across and he cultivates sources and he's
01:26:52 ◼ ► got multiple sources and he puts a lot of work into it and i think that's an important part of
01:26:57 ◼ ► understanding what mark german does is he's putting in the work to do this he's not a passive receiver of
01:27:04 ◼ ► information this program sometimes passively receives information but mark german is a uh is a reporter who is
01:27:13 ◼ ► dealing with sources and checking and double checking with other sources and things like that so it's a
01:27:18 ◼ ► high level thing that i am not interested in doing and have not been interested in doing in my career and so
01:27:23 ◼ ► i uh do not imagine myself in that situation that's not a role i am interested in playing
01:27:30 ◼ ► yeah i was i was thinking how you just uh posted a podcast about somebody who does this i actually just
01:27:36 ◼ ► came up yeah so i will promote this so just episode of cortex today so we have jason schreier
01:27:42 ◼ ► uh jason schreier is mark german for video games yeah so at bloomberg schreier works at bloomberg um
01:27:54 ◼ ► mark german is who he is mostly for apple schreier is the entire video game industry so like
01:28:01 ◼ ► imagine someone who is connected in every tech company and that is who jason schreier is for video
01:28:07 ◼ ► games like if you care about video game news you you come across jason's work because people talk to
01:28:13 ◼ ► him and so this was a lot of my conversation with him was kind of asking what it is like to have this
01:28:21 ◼ ► kind of trust and to work with sources and it was really interesting to hear his process so if you're
01:28:27 ◼ ► you're intrigued about what it is like for somebody who has this kind of sourcing and how they manage
01:28:34 ◼ ► all of that you can go listen to it but it informed to me it underlined to me why i would not want to be
01:28:39 ◼ ► this person i would not want to have to think about my as jason called it upsec as much as he does
01:28:50 ◼ ► um that you are dealing with information that could mean that people lose their jobs that could mean that
01:28:58 ◼ ► people are in really tough situations and you have to handle that and handle the trust and handle it all
01:29:03 ◼ ► very responsibly that seems horrifying to me um and also it feels like a level of work that i am not
01:29:10 ◼ ► interested in like i care more about talking about things that have happened or information that is
01:29:16 ◼ ► received by others than being someone who has to try and cultivate and break that news that's just not
01:29:21 ◼ ► what i'm interested in um i i care more about what we do and it just seems like i don't know it just
01:29:27 ◼ ► seems very very stressful in a way that i wouldn't want to deal with yeah i mean it's a choice um and
01:29:32 ◼ ► it's not a choice that i think either of us are interested in making no so yeah it's fun it's fun
01:29:37 ◼ ► when something comes in over the transom but like yeah yeah breaking scoops and uh cultivating secret
01:29:43 ◼ ► sources and like no i'm not i like it as the occasional time that's that nine to five mac writes an article
01:29:50 ◼ ► about a thing we said you know like that's fun for me uh everything else is like i don't know man
01:29:56 ◼ ► that seems hard yeah macho writes in and says what do you think about apple rebranding any chips for
01:30:02 ◼ ► the neo as maybe a new n series chip i could see them coming out and saying the neo was so successful
01:30:09 ◼ ► we're making chips for them they're still just been a series chips but they could call it whatever they
01:30:13 ◼ ► want do you think they could do this i mean they could do this um macho wants to know if they would
01:30:17 ◼ ► do it and i mean again the marketing power of apple is incredible they can do whatever they want it
01:30:23 ◼ ► doesn't solve any of their problems with ben chips though no um i i don't think they will do something
01:30:29 ◼ ► like this i think they've got enough labels and i think apple's been pretty good at labeling chips what
01:30:33 ◼ ► they are and not sticking fake labels on them to call them things that they're not so i think they'll
01:30:38 ◼ ► just kind of continue doing what they're doing but they could i mean if they found value in it they would
01:30:42 ◼ ► do it do you think that they pay any mind to the like to people saying like oh you know this just
01:30:50 ◼ ► this is an iphone chip and it can do all of this and the ipad can't do you think you care about that
01:30:55 ◼ ► kind of criticism no no like it's not what their product is i think i think there is a very small
01:31:01 ◼ ► group of people who will make statements like that yeah but um i don't think the people in the market
01:31:07 ◼ ► who are buying these products care yeah that's fair uh phil writes in and says my current ipad is an
01:31:12 ◼ ► eight-year-old ipad pro that i exclusively use for travel i'm thinking about replacing it with a
01:31:18 ◼ ► macbook neo since i like the idea of having a full mac with me when i travel but i need something that
01:31:23 ◼ ► will let me download streaming shows and movies for offline viewing for example on a plane without wi-fi
01:31:28 ◼ ► netflix and the like do not support this they don't allow downloads except on mobile devices
01:31:34 ◼ ► is there a way i could do this or should i just stick with an ipad stick with an ipad i think for
01:31:39 ◼ ► this very specific use case if that is that important to you then that's what you're gonna have to do
01:31:45 ◼ ► the the they won't let you do it on desktop because they're afraid that you're gonna crack the drm and
01:31:49 ◼ ► pirate it and stuff so you got to use the ipad or you get used to buying a bunch of stuff from
01:31:55 ◼ ► from the apple tv app and just like watching that on your mac which you could do you know it's not
01:32:00 ◼ ► going to be a netflix straight show no right no it's not going to be so you have to change the
01:32:06 ◼ ► things you're doing but yeah it's like it depends on what are the most what is actually the most
01:32:10 ◼ ► important thing to you like is the idea of having a full computer within your travel is that more
01:32:14 ◼ ► important than downloading this content but if the downloading of content is that important and you
01:32:20 ◼ ► have no choice because they don't let you do it it's just uh the the app versions only will they do
01:32:25 ◼ ► that yep uh logan writes in and says if apple launches an ai-based siri chatbot as has been
01:32:32 ◼ ► rumored do you think that they would block it from presenting information say like rumors of upcoming
01:32:37 ◼ ► products if you ask claude or gemini it will tell you all of the rumored features but i doubt apple would
01:32:43 ◼ ► want siri being a spokesperson for features that they don't want public in the first place
01:32:47 ◼ ► i don't know i mean they apple apple blocks some stuff and pre-codes some things into siri and
01:32:54 ◼ ► there's still going to be like a layer here where apple is controlling what goes to and from and filters
01:32:59 ◼ ► things out so i don't know maybe it is an interesting question it's like the the actual question here is
01:33:07 ◼ ► like i don't know but there is the the broader question of how apple is going to tune gemini's
01:33:18 ◼ ► responses and and what they will and will not allow like the guardrails as such and like will this be
01:33:26 ◼ ► part of the guardrails like it's going to be interesting to see like this was something we wondered about with
01:33:32 ◼ ► apple intelligence but it just turned out that apple intelligence just wasn't capable enough that there
01:33:36 ◼ ► really was much you could have to worry about in the end um but now they will be dealing with something
01:33:42 ◼ ► quite different and like what what that's going to look like is going to be interesting yeah yeah i
01:33:47 ◼ ► mean they'll they'll make some attempts but i don't know my guess my guess here is that they they won't
01:33:52 ◼ ► do a lot of this stuff because everybody's looking for the gotchas from apple but like it's not like you
01:33:58 ◼ ► can't go into safari and search and read things like that apple doesn't want you to see because
01:34:03 ◼ ► apple's not going to intercede there and i think this is probably one of those areas but you know
01:34:08 ◼ ► they do they are they are kind of customizing what the siri guardrails are and and we will have to see
01:34:16 ◼ ► what those are and finally darren says assuming that the macbook pro that supports touch comes out at some
01:34:23 ◼ ► point what is the over under and whether they'll also support apple pencil do you think there could be
01:34:30 ◼ ► any special features that you may get if using an apple pencil or do you think a mac specific version
01:34:35 ◼ ► could be released i am going to say i'm not going to give you an over under i'm going to say they're
01:34:41 ◼ ► not and i got two reasons one is the incredible thinness of the top uh plane of a laptop really
01:34:51 ◼ ► reduces what can fit in there and two you can't detach the screen or even fold it back real far
01:34:59 ◼ ► and the ergonomics of reaching over the keyboard to write on the screen with the apple pencil are lousy
01:35:12 ◼ ► the setup that works for the pencil it would be weird no it's like too much pushing against it it'd
01:35:20 ◼ ► be too much wobbling well and you're pushing against the screen it's gonna what it's gonna fold back
01:35:24 ◼ ► yeah uh where like a tap is very different as you push on it yeah i just i just don't see it
01:35:30 ◼ ► ergonomically unless they completely rethink how um macbook pro ergonomics works which i don't think
01:35:36 ◼ ► they'll do and i also just think from a product market perspective once the macs support touchscreens
01:35:43 ◼ ► they need to keep some reasons for the ipad and like the ipad having the pencil is like a good thing
01:35:48 ◼ ► that it can do sure that if you care about that you still have that world available to you that i don't
01:35:54 ◼ ► think that an apple pencil support on the macbook pro makes sense and also let's just get touchscreen
01:35:59 ◼ ► dealt with first before we start putting styluses in as well if you would like to send in a question
01:36:06 ◼ ► of your own or if you have any feedback or follow up for this week's show please go to upgradefeedback.com
01:36:11 ◼ ► thank you to our members who support us with upgrade plus uh this week jason let's get an update
01:36:17 ◼ ► on jeopardy from you because i know there's been a lot going on still an update on jeopardy all right so
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01:36:32 ◼ ► podcast i would like to thank fitbod mercuryweather claude and steam clock for their support of this