ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Marco, we've covered this on the show before, but hi, it's me and I have no memory. You are using, I almost said iTunes, you're using the music app as your playback app of choice, is that correct?

00:00:10 ◼   ► That makes it sound like I like it more than I do.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Fair.

00:00:14 ◼   ► Yes, I am using it to play music.

00:00:17 ◼   ► All right, here's what I need from you. I need you and me, and I think we probably have some mutual friends that would be interested as well.

00:00:24 ◼   ► And even though this is a terrible idea, it would be an amazing idea. I need you and me and maybe others to work on like a, I guess it would kind of be vaguely similar to a classical music app, but an app for people who are just binging the same like five artists nonstop forevermore. And there's 800 albums per artist.

00:00:44 ◼   ► This is part of the jams app.

00:00:46 ◼   ► I'm telling you, you need to do it.

00:00:48 ◼   ► So here's the thing with the jams app. So this is an app that I intend to make probably with the help of AI at some point. It's one of those apps that like it would never be worth the time to code the whole thing from scratch without something like AI helping.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Because again, like as we've talked about before, like the market for an app that caters to jam band users and jam band users who buy a bunch of the downloaded music and also want an app like this.

00:01:17 ◼   ► We're talking five people like it's every one of those just like it strips it down and down and down further.

00:01:22 ◼   ► And the thing is like there are other music listening apps out there and, and, and, and even like the jam band crowd, um, there's a lot of overlap between like the, the like audio file slash like power user of music crowd and jam band listeners.

00:01:41 ◼   ► So there are already apps. Um, I think is this one called Rune? I think is one of them. Um, there's apps that like specialize in things like, you know, high, high sample rate, lossless playback and go into like fancy DAX and, and DSD and stuff like that.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Like there's all these like high end audio file, um, you know, formats and apps that specialize in catering to those formats.

00:02:04 ◼   ► That world already exists and we wouldn't be any, like anybody who wants that world, we wouldn't satisfy their, their desire.

00:02:15 ◼   ► And, and so like we're, we're going to rule out people who don't care about jam bands.

00:02:20 ◼   ► We're going to rule out people who don't buy all the jam band recordings or otherwise acquire them.

00:02:25 ◼   ► Like people who just want streaming, we're going to rule out people among who's left.

00:02:29 ◼   ► We're going to rule out people who, who actually want like those like high end, you know, high bit rate, audio file, high fidelity, you know, kind of things.

00:02:37 ◼   ► And then we're going to limit it just to people who are on Apple's platforms because, you know, screw that.

00:02:41 ◼   ► And then also then we're, it's going to be like people who, who like our choices and our taste.

00:02:47 ◼   ► And so I think it would be a very small market, which is why it is probably worth doing it with AI,

00:02:54 ◼   ► but probably not any other way.

00:02:56 ◼   ► Well, the reason I bring this up, as you well know, but our listeners may not, is that it is currently goose season.

00:03:02 ◼   ► And I believe you had told me before the show that fish season is coming soon.

00:03:06 ◼   ► And there is a, a really great service called nugs and UGS, uh, that will let you stream or purchase.

00:03:14 ◼   ► I guess you can only stream from nugs actually, but it will let you stream.

00:03:18 ◼   ► I think you can buy downloads.

00:03:19 ◼   ► Maybe you can, but one way or another, you can certainly stream, um, concerts in, in some cases, as they're being aired.

00:03:24 ◼   ► Like I could be watching goose right now, but I'm talking to you two numbnuts.

00:03:27 ◼   ► Uh, and so anyways, you know, as I'm amassing more and more goose shows, as each passing day goes on, I am finding myself more and more in want of a bespoke solution to manage all of this.

00:03:38 ◼   ► And so maybe I can convince you to let me work with you on the jams app or something.

00:03:43 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:03:43 ◼   ► What is the maximum amount you can charge for an app?

00:03:46 ◼   ► Is it a thousand bucks?

00:03:47 ◼   ► If we, if we get, I don't know, a hundred people at a thousand bucks, that math might almost work out maybe.

00:03:53 ◼   ► None of them would pay a thousand bucks for our app.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Based on Marco's description, I feel like you left out the last part, which is that it turns out Marco's taste is different than Casey's taste.

00:04:01 ◼   ► And so now you have to make your own separate vibe code.

00:04:04 ◼   ► So now you really have an audience of one free chap.

00:04:06 ◼   ► And we'd be competing for the search keywords, you know, from, for all six people who would ever search for it.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Um, you know, I am mostly snarking and mostly joking.

00:04:14 ◼   ► However, I will say the thought of you and me in any capacity working on some sort of like actual development project together,

00:04:21 ◼   ► I think would be a beautiful disaster and would make incredible material for the show.

00:04:26 ◼   ► So I'll just put that out there.

00:04:27 ◼   ► That's I, would it be, would it be good for our friendship though?

00:04:30 ◼   ► No, not at all.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Not even a little bit.

00:04:34 ◼   ► It would be so bad.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Somehow, I, you know, I was thinking recently that somehow this show has been going on with 13 years and I'm still dear friends with the two of you idiots.

00:04:42 ◼   ► And yet I think 13 days of Marco and I working on this together, it would be the end of everything.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I think like, you know, there are certain, you know, certain friendships that are, that can be ruined by say becoming roommates or friendships that can be ruined by becoming romantic partners.

00:04:58 ◼   ► And I, I think our friendships between the three of us would be ruined with like shared coding projects.

00:05:06 ◼   ► I mean, in, in your defense, our defense and someone's defense, maybe John's defense, he's done a lot of work in your PHP, my friend.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Yeah, because he took it over.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Cause like if he and I were working together, he would have killed me like two years ago.

00:05:19 ◼   ► That's also very fair.

00:05:20 ◼   ► Or vice versa, because, yeah.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Probably that direction though.

00:05:23 ◼   ► Probably you would kill me.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Well, I can tell you, you probably have a lot more opinions about PHP than I do.

00:05:27 ◼   ► I just want to get the hell out of there most of the time.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Before we derail this entire episode, let me tell you, the listeners, about a couple of fun things we have going on.

00:05:37 ◼   ► First of all, we have, I'm going to do this in reverse order, which John's going to yell at me for.

00:05:41 ◼   ► We have a new member special, uh, we have a new member special ATP dev nuggets of wisdom, which is different from nugs of wisdom.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Speaking of nugs, it might be a different route meaning there.

00:05:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:52 ◼   ► Also fair.

00:05:53 ◼   ► I didn't even consider that.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Uh, anyways, uh, nuggets.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Really?

00:05:56 ◼   ► Wait, you didn't get that?

00:05:57 ◼   ► No, I didn't.

00:05:58 ◼   ► Why a jam band site would be called nugs.

00:06:01 ◼   ► No, never even cross.

00:06:02 ◼   ► Cause I was never in that scene in no small part, because I think if I ever, ever, ever tried it for more than a second, I would never stop.

00:06:08 ◼   ► And so ignorance is lists, my friend.

00:06:11 ◼   ► Anyways, uh, John, tell us about the ATP dev nugs slash nuggets of wisdom.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just what it says.

00:06:16 ◼   ► Uh, as usual, we went in, uh, kind of blind on this one, because this is the first episode like this that we've done.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Uh, we are all developers, uh, and most of our development history is in the days before LLM.

00:06:26 ◼   ► So we have a lot of, uh, things that we've learned over the course of writing all the code that we've written and figured we would do a member special with, uh, you know, tips and tricks or, you know, lessons or, you know, nuggets of wisdom.

00:06:37 ◼   ► And, uh, my idea was to come in with, uh, you know, things that we've learned and that no idea was too small.

00:06:44 ◼   ► Uh, and that even that instruction turned out to have many loopholes.

00:06:48 ◼   ► So you'll see how it went.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Um, there are nuggets and it is some wisdom.

00:06:53 ◼   ► And if people like it, you know, if people like this episode, we will have, we'll probably do another one because we didn't get through all of our lists and there's surely more that we can add.

00:07:01 ◼   ► And even now we're getting follow-up on it and everything.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So, um, if you are a developer for sure, check this out, especially if you want to hear from a bunch of old people who are developers.

00:07:09 ◼   ► And if you're not a developer, maybe you'll learn something about development or just hear us yell at each other.

00:07:13 ◼   ► So, uh, yeah, there you go.

00:07:14 ◼   ► ATP dev nuggets of wisdom.

00:07:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it was fun.

00:07:17 ◼   ► It was fun.

00:07:18 ◼   ► Uh, and yes, it's very small, has very different definitions between the three of us.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And then, uh, we will make our repeat plea for the ATP store.

00:07:26 ◼   ► You can find that at ATP.fm slash store.

00:07:28 ◼   ► If you are in line for coffee, if you are walking the streets of Manhattan, if you're driving, pull over, step out of line, do whatever you need to do and go to ATP.fm slash store and get yourself some sweet, sweet ATP merch.

00:07:41 ◼   ► John, would you like me to do the nickel tour or would you like to?

00:07:44 ◼   ► I will do it.

00:07:45 ◼   ► I just want to remind everybody the sale ends Sunday, April 26th.

00:07:48 ◼   ► This is the second of three shows that we will talk about it on.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Just do it now because if you don't listen to the third show immediately, by the time you hear it, the sale will be over.

00:07:56 ◼   ► So this is it.

00:07:57 ◼   ► This is actually when you should, if you're going to want something to start, get it now.

00:08:00 ◼   ► Um, what we've got is we've got our ATP Neo shirts, which are in the colors of the MacBook Neo, which we'll talk about more in a little bit.

00:08:08 ◼   ► Um, we've got a Mac Pro Memorial shirt, which is just like the Mac Pro Believe shirt.

00:08:12 ◼   ► But instead of saying Believe, it has a birth date and year date on the bottom.

00:08:16 ◼   ► It's very sad where to make Apple executives guilty.

00:08:18 ◼   ► We've got the T568A crossover and B crossover shirts, which are like the T568A and B Ethernet wiring shirts that we sold in a past sale.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Only now there are the fully crossed crossover cable for both of those standards, making the colors even more mixed up, even nerdier than before, even harder to explain to people when you wear it.

00:08:39 ◼   ► I love this so much.

00:08:40 ◼   ► We have, of course, the M5 Pro and M5 Max shirts.

00:08:43 ◼   ► People ask, did you ever sell a plain M5 shirt?

00:08:45 ◼   ► Yeah, we did when the plain M5 was out on.

00:08:47 ◼   ► And then people are like, oh, but I want to get the plain M5 one now.

00:08:50 ◼   ► Well, here's the thing.

00:08:51 ◼   ► We sell these CPU shirts when the CPU, like whatever the sale is after the CPUs came out.

00:08:57 ◼   ► And then we tend not to sell them again, except for the on-demand ones, which you don't want those.

00:09:01 ◼   ► They're not as good, although they are cheaper.

00:09:03 ◼   ► But anyway, someone's like, oh, I just got an M4 Max.

00:09:06 ◼   ► I want, where can I get an M4 Max shirt?

00:09:08 ◼   ► I always say this.

00:09:09 ◼   ► It's like the old cliche of, you know, dress for the job you want.

00:09:12 ◼   ► Buy the shirt with the chip that you want, not the one you have.

00:09:15 ◼   ► Aspirational.

00:09:16 ◼   ► These are aspirational shirts.

00:09:18 ◼   ► Maybe you don't have an M5 Max.

00:09:20 ◼   ► Maybe someday you think you're going to own one.

00:09:21 ◼   ► Get the shirt now because we won't sell it again.

00:09:24 ◼   ► So M5 Pro and M5 Max shirts.

00:09:26 ◼   ► We like to bring back an old shirt.

00:09:28 ◼   ► This time we brought back ATP Pixels, a very popular shirt, which is the colorful ATP logo

00:09:33 ◼   ► rendered in extremely non-retina pixels, big chunky pixels that are very difficult to print,

00:09:38 ◼   ► but we figured out a way to do it.

00:09:39 ◼   ► That's very cool.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Yeah, the Pixel shirt, by the way, I think among all of the like regular-ish ATP shirts we've ever made,

00:09:47 ◼   ► the Pixel shirt might be one of the nicest.

00:09:49 ◼   ► It's a really, like I really enjoy the complexity of the pattern, like the implementation details of it.

00:09:56 ◼   ► It's a very nice shirt.

00:09:58 ◼   ► That's part of why it has almost no profit margin because it has very expensive printing methods to

00:10:04 ◼   ► get all the sharp pixels and all the different colors, but it is worth it.

00:10:07 ◼   ► Like if you just want a fun, nerdy ATP shirt, that's a good one to get.

00:10:11 ◼   ► And fun fact, I made all those little squares.

00:10:13 ◼   ► It's like one of those things where because I'm not a graphics designer, I have no idea how to use the

00:10:18 ◼   ► tools.

00:10:19 ◼   ► So I'm like, well, I can brute force this.

00:10:21 ◼   ► And I did.

00:10:22 ◼   ► They're all little squares.

00:10:23 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

00:10:24 ◼   ► It's terrible.

00:10:24 ◼   ► Someone who knows how to do this would look at the file and say, why didn't you just do X,

00:10:27 ◼   ► Y and Z and just automatically cut up your pattern into squares.

00:10:30 ◼   ► It's like, I don't know how, but anyway, they're squares.

00:10:34 ◼   ► We've got a regular ATP shirt, our hoodie, our polo shirt, which we sell in the warmer weather.

00:10:39 ◼   ► It's got a collar on it and embroidered ATP logo.

00:10:41 ◼   ► And of course, our hat.

00:10:42 ◼   ► One other thing people are asking about how the Neo sales, the colors are doing because

00:10:49 ◼   ► we have like a indigo, blush, citrus, and silver to match the MacBook Neo colors.

00:10:54 ◼   ► What are, I don't know if either one of you guessed, seen it.

00:10:58 ◼   ► If you've looked at the sales figures, don't say anything, but you haven't looked at the

00:11:01 ◼   ► sales figure.

00:11:01 ◼   ► What is your prediction for like ratios of the colors that are available?

00:11:04 ◼   ► All right.

00:11:04 ◼   ► I have not looked at the sales figures.

00:11:06 ◼   ► I'm going to guess the blue one.

00:11:08 ◼   ► I'm guessing blue is number one and then it outsells that whatever's number two, two to

00:11:12 ◼   ► one.

00:11:13 ◼   ► And number two, I would guess probably is the, the lemon color one.

00:11:18 ◼   ► Citrus, please.

00:11:21 ◼   ► Casey, you got anything?

00:11:22 ◼   ► So I didn't see numbers.

00:11:24 ◼   ► However, I will say that I, we, we get emails once, once we've crossed the threshold of,

00:11:30 ◼   ► oh, this will be printed by Cotton Bureau.

00:11:31 ◼   ► And I feel like the Neo one came in just lickety split.

00:11:35 ◼   ► So clearly.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Marco would have seen that email too.

00:11:37 ◼   ► So it's kind of cheating.

00:11:38 ◼   ► Oh, I don't read those emails.

00:11:39 ◼   ► So I knew that the Neo was selling the best.

00:11:42 ◼   ► I would say, I think Marco just said this as well, by a factor of two, maybe even three

00:11:47 ◼   ► to one would be my guess.

00:11:48 ◼   ► Cause I haven't seen numbers.

00:11:49 ◼   ► I just know that it.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Wait, are you talking about Neo versus the other shirts or the colors within Neo?

00:11:53 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, I'm sorry.

00:11:54 ◼   ► I misspoke.

00:11:54 ◼   ► I think Indigo is probably two, maybe even three X over the others.

00:11:58 ◼   ► I would say Neo is probably second.

00:11:59 ◼   ► God, I did it again.

00:12:00 ◼   ► I would say Citrus is probably second.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:02 ◼   ► I'd say pink number three.

00:12:03 ◼   ► And then silver, I would say silver's third and blush is fourth.

00:12:08 ◼   ► I'm kind of surprised that you two didn't make the prediction I thought you would make,

00:12:12 ◼   ► which is that, you know, the sort of stereotypical, like when, when someone who, uh,

00:12:19 ◼   ► is like us is buying an iPhone or something, we just get the gray one or the black one.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Right.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Well, but I figured like, if you're going to have like, if, if, if one of these colors

00:12:27 ◼   ► was just black, I think that would outsell by, by a pretty good margin.

00:12:31 ◼   ► But like is Indigo your stand in for that?

00:12:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:33 ◼   ► In the same way, like with the iPhone 17 that they made like the dark blue one to, for people

00:12:37 ◼   ► who really want like just the boring gray or black one.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Anyway, um, as you know, with these, like these sales where we take a bunch of orders and then

00:12:43 ◼   ► they print the shirts, you have to order a certain number of them before they print the shirts.

00:12:47 ◼   ► And what Casey was talking about is when we crossed the threshold of like now enough people

00:12:51 ◼   ► have ordered this, that we're actually going to print it.

00:12:53 ◼   ► We get an email when that happens.

00:12:54 ◼   ► And so that's where he was getting the info from.

00:12:56 ◼   ► Um, and I can tell you the number required to print one of these shirts is not high.

00:13:00 ◼   ► It's 12, 12 people need to buy a shirt for it to get printed.

00:13:04 ◼   ► If fewer than 12 people buy the shirt or pre-order the shirt, they'll just get their money refunded

00:13:09 ◼   ► and the shirt will not be printed because it's not worth the time for the printing company to

00:13:12 ◼   ► do that because of the scale of things.

00:13:14 ◼   ► Uh, here's the thing.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Uh, Indigo is the most popular as Casey noted because that email came first and they're, they're

00:13:20 ◼   ► not that distant from each other.

00:13:21 ◼   ► The second place is citrus and it is, I don't think it's double, but it's, you know, it's,

00:13:25 ◼   ► it's a pretty big gap.

00:13:26 ◼   ► All right.

00:13:26 ◼   ► But here is the shocker.

00:13:28 ◼   ► We are a week into the sale.

00:13:30 ◼   ► You know how many silver shirts we've sold?

00:13:32 ◼   ► One.

00:13:34 ◼   ► Oh, wow.

00:13:35 ◼   ► Holy jamolis.

00:13:37 ◼   ► We have sold one silver shirt.

00:13:40 ◼   ► Nobody wants that.

00:13:42 ◼   ► I mean, I granted it is the color that is the least accurate to the laptop.

00:13:45 ◼   ► So that's true.

00:13:46 ◼   ► I said, I said it in the, the, the description, I think when I, when I was posting, tooting about

00:13:50 ◼   ► it or whatever, that it's, I thought it felt like it was more important to get the same

00:13:54 ◼   ► shirt from the same manufacturer for all the colors rather than having one be an entirely

00:13:57 ◼   ► different shirt.

00:13:58 ◼   ► And this is the close, this is the best gray that they had to match the silver one, but it's

00:14:02 ◼   ► also very neutral in plain and kind of gray scale.

00:14:04 ◼   ► So I'm like, yeah, maybe people will pick it just because they don't want a brightly colored

00:14:07 ◼   ► shirt.

00:14:07 ◼   ► Indigo is the most popular and Indigo blush and citrus are all going to be printed because

00:14:12 ◼   ► more than 12 people have ordered them.

00:14:13 ◼   ► Although sometimes not much more than 12 silver one shirt.

00:14:17 ◼   ► So whoever, if you're out there and you ordered ATP, Neo and silver, you're not going to get

00:14:22 ◼   ► your shirt unless 11 other people buy that shirt.

00:14:25 ◼   ► I'm not encouraging people to buy it because hey, if you don't want a gray shirt, don't

00:14:28 ◼   ► get the gray shirt.

00:14:29 ◼   ► But I'm just warning that one person who ordered the silver shirt, it's not looking good for

00:14:33 ◼   ► you.

00:14:33 ◼   ► Maybe change your order to Indigo.

00:14:36 ◼   ► It's very popular.

00:14:39 ◼   ► A reminder that ATP members get 15% off.

00:14:42 ◼   ► So if you are a member, go to your member page, get your discount code for 15% off.

00:14:45 ◼   ► If you're not a member, it's worthwhile for you to sign up and get 15% off because you can

00:14:50 ◼   ► make up the cost of one month of membership easily by ordering a couple of things.

00:14:54 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:14:55 ◼   ► And you don't have to cancel after the month is over.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Just put it out there.

00:14:59 ◼   ► You have a lot of specials like ATP Dev Nuggets of Wisdom that you can check out as well.

00:15:03 ◼   ► All right, let's do some follow up.

00:15:06 ◼   ► First of all, Marco made what I presume was just an off-the-cuff judgment call, which given

00:15:11 ◼   ► the information you had made perfect sense.

00:15:13 ◼   ► And oh boy, did we get feedback about it.

00:15:15 ◼   ► So Marco, would you like to handle this?

00:15:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:19 ◼   ► So when I was talking about in the after show, I was talking about the Suunto watch I was

00:15:22 ◼   ► trying as compared to Garmin watches for sports and fitness watches.

00:15:27 ◼   ► And I referred to Suunto as a young or as a new company, which I think was generally accurate

00:15:35 ◼   ► for their presence in the sport watch market relative to Garmin, I think.

00:15:41 ◼   ► However, everyone wrote in to tell me that Suunto was actually founded in 1936.

00:15:52 ◼   ► They made like compasses at first and then dive computers later.

00:15:56 ◼   ► So eventually, like they did get to the like the like the modern smartwatch.

00:16:01 ◼   ► But the actual company itself is like 100 years old.

00:16:06 ◼   ► So whoops.

00:16:08 ◼   ► So Henry Sivanen writes, on the last episode, Marco referred to Suunto as a younger company

00:16:12 ◼   ► relative to Garmin.

00:16:13 ◼   ► According to the Finnish language Wikipedia, Suunto was founded in 1936, making it 53 years

00:16:17 ◼   ► older than Garmin.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Suunto started making dive computers in the 80s.

00:16:19 ◼   ► The first PC connectivity for those was in the early 90s.

00:16:22 ◼   ► And Suunto introduced a wrist computer in 2004.

00:16:25 ◼   ► We'll put a link to English language Wikipedia in the show notes.

00:16:28 ◼   ► And then Fugu writes, the only thing Suunto seems to have done later than Garmin is to

00:16:32 ◼   ► release a GPS watch in 2012.

00:16:34 ◼   ► The Garmin watch from 2003 already had GPS.

00:16:37 ◼   ► However, it's quite possible that the current Suunto software stack is much younger than Garmin's,

00:16:42 ◼   ► which seems to be much more fragmented.

00:16:44 ◼   ► All right.

00:16:45 ◼   ► Last episode, we were talking about color spaces and we were gushing about Eric Portis' really

00:16:51 ◼   ► great webpage about that, which is linked in the prior show notes.

00:16:55 ◼   ► We were talking about Bartosz Szymanowski's, hopefully I got that close, and basically everything

00:17:02 ◼   ► that he has ever done is incredible.

00:17:04 ◼   ► And John, you had made an off-the-cuff comment about how there was a really good thing that

00:17:10 ◼   ► you had seen recently that you probably couldn't put your finger on.

00:17:12 ◼   ► Well, Ben Landsberg figured it out.

00:17:15 ◼   ► This is what both John and myself were thinking of.

00:17:17 ◼   ► It's ASCII characters are not pixels, a deep dive into ASCII rendering by Alex Hari, which

00:17:23 ◼   ► we'll put a link to that in the show notes for sure.

00:17:26 ◼   ► And if I remember, I'll put the other links back in as well.

00:17:28 ◼   ► Yeah, that's less of an explainer, more of like I was doing the software project and here

00:17:32 ◼   ► is how I progressed through the project.

00:17:34 ◼   ► It's really fun.

00:17:35 ◼   ► Again, with lots of interactive examples and explaining like the reasoning and the different

00:17:40 ◼   ► things that Alex tried to do this somewhat fanciful and whimsical thing.

00:17:45 ◼   ► that he's doing, which is basically like, can you render things using only ASCII characters,

00:17:49 ◼   ► which is something that you're very familiar with if you're a Unix nerd from way back, but

00:17:53 ◼   ► people are still doing it.

00:17:55 ◼   ► All right, is Apple running low on the BINN 18 Pros?

00:17:59 ◼   ► Uh-oh.

00:18:00 ◼   ► Joe Rossingall from MacRumors writes,

00:18:03 ◼   ► The all-new MacBook Neo has been such a hit that Apple is facing a, quote, massive dilemma, quote,

00:18:07 ◼   ► according to Taiwan-based tech columnist and former Bloomberg reporter Tim Kulpan.

00:18:12 ◼   ► Kulpan says the MacBook Neo is selling so well that Apple's supply of the BINN 18 Pro chips

00:18:18 ◼   ► with a five-core GPU will run out before the company is able to fully satisfy demand for the laptop.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Apple's initial plan was to have suppliers build around five to six million MacBook Nios

00:18:27 ◼   ► before ceasing production of the model with the A18 Pro chip, Kulpan said.

00:18:31 ◼   ► But it sounds like demand is so strong that Apple might run out of the A18 Pro chips

00:18:34 ◼   ► before the second-generation MacBook Neo with an A19 Pro chip is ready next year.

00:18:39 ◼   ► A18 Pro chips are manufactured with TSMC's N3E process,

00:18:43 ◼   ► and Kulpan said that the N3E production lines are currently operating at maximum capacity.

00:18:48 ◼   ► As a result, Apple may have to pay a premium to restart A18 Pro chip production for the MacBook Neo,

00:18:54 ◼   ► which would lower its profit margins.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Alternatively, Apple could reallocate some of its chip production that was originally planned for other devices,

00:18:59 ◼   ► but the cost would still be higher than what Apple paid for its initial batch of A18 Pro chips

00:19:04 ◼   ► that were presumably binned.

00:19:05 ◼   ► In either case, Apple would have to disable a GPU core in these chips

00:19:10 ◼   ► just to ensure that they have only a five-core GPU like all the other MacBook Neo units sold to date.

00:19:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not sure that's the case.

00:19:16 ◼   ► So the binned one, this is like a way to, you know, make lemonade out of lemons.

00:19:22 ◼   ► So you're making a bunch of A18 Pros.

00:19:23 ◼   ► Some of them have a bum GPU.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Why don't we just save them?

00:19:26 ◼   ► We'll just put those off to the side.

00:19:28 ◼   ► Don't throw those away.

00:19:29 ◼   ► We might find a use for those, and they use them in the MacBook Neo.

00:19:32 ◼   ► So all the ones with the bad GPU core they can use in the MacBook Neo.

00:19:35 ◼   ► I don't know if that is the entire source of their A18 Pros,

00:19:38 ◼   ► or if they also took a bunch of fully working A18 Pros and disabled one of the GPU cores.

00:19:43 ◼   ► But either way, when you buy a MacBook Neo from Apple, you get an A18 Pro.

00:19:47 ◼   ► One of the GPU cores is either disabled or didn't work to begin with.

00:19:51 ◼   ► Okay, so that's the deal.

00:19:52 ◼   ► If they're running out of those chips, yeah, it kind of sucks for them now.

00:19:56 ◼   ► They have to start up the manufacturing line and start making more of them,

00:19:59 ◼   ► and that costs them money, and they got to take capacity from other things

00:20:01 ◼   ► and all that other stuff, and it lowers their margins.

00:20:04 ◼   ► But they could also just say, okay, well, when we start up the line now,

00:20:09 ◼   ► you will take all the ones that have all the working GPU cores,

00:20:14 ◼   ► and then just update the Neo spec to say, now when you buy a MacBook Neo,

00:20:18 ◼   ► it's like a rev, you know, not a rev2 or whatever, but like a second version of it,

00:20:21 ◼   ► where now all the GPU cores work.

00:20:23 ◼   ► It just seems like a waste to take a perfectly working six GPU core thing

00:20:27 ◼   ► and disable one of them, and people are like, well, you can't do that

00:20:30 ◼   ► because then the people who bought the first one with the core that didn't work,

00:20:33 ◼   ► they're going to be mad.

00:20:33 ◼   ► It's like it happens all the time.

00:20:34 ◼   ► Apple releases a new revision of a product that has some spec slightly better.

00:20:38 ◼   ► That's life.

00:20:40 ◼   ► You buy the product you buy, and if in the future a slightly better version

00:20:44 ◼   ► of that product comes out, you can't say, but I bought one last year,

00:20:47 ◼   ► and it only had five GPU cores, and now you're selling it for the same price with six.

00:20:50 ◼   ► Well, that's technology for you, so they could do that,

00:20:53 ◼   ► or they could pull forward the A19 Pro product or whatever.

00:20:56 ◼   ► So all I can say is this is a good problem to have.

00:20:59 ◼   ► They made a product that everybody loves.

00:21:01 ◼   ► It's selling like hotcakes so much so that even their probably very accurate,

00:21:05 ◼   ► usually very accurate planning, underestimated the demand.

00:21:09 ◼   ► You'd rather have this than the opposite problem,

00:21:11 ◼   ► which is you buy a HomePod on its last day for sale,

00:21:14 ◼   ► and it turns out it was manufactured three years ago,

00:21:16 ◼   ► and those are all the HomePods they ever manufactured.

00:21:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I think, though, like, you know, in this case, you know,

00:21:21 ◼   ► if they do have to make more A18 Pros, I'm like, yeah, if they have to, they will.

00:21:25 ◼   ► They'll work it out with TSMC, and yeah, they might eat a little bit of margin,

00:21:28 ◼   ► but they'll work it out.

00:21:30 ◼   ► I think whether they, you know, hardware disable one of the GPUs,

00:21:35 ◼   ► even if it would have worked, or whether they do this kind of, you know,

00:21:38 ◼   ► quieter revision where they just all of a sudden now they have six core GPUs,

00:21:42 ◼   ► I don't think it really matters either way because the difference of that one GPU core

00:21:48 ◼   ► is not a huge difference.

00:21:49 ◼   ► We're not talking about, like, it'd be different if, like, you know,

00:21:51 ◼   ► the number of PCORs on the CPU was cut in half.

00:21:55 ◼   ► That's not the case here.

00:21:57 ◼   ► This is five of six GPUs or six of six GPUs.

00:22:01 ◼   ► They scale almost perfectly proportionally, so you can figure out the, you know,

00:22:04 ◼   ► the math on that, you know, what is that, like a 16% drop or difference in performance?

00:22:09 ◼   ► It's not a huge difference here, so I think in reality, whichever one of these they do,

00:22:15 ◼   ► it shouldn't and probably won't be, like, a big deal to basically anybody.

00:22:19 ◼   ► The one thing they can't do, or probably, not can't do,

00:22:22 ◼   ► the one thing they probably shouldn't do is manufacture a bunch of new ones

00:22:26 ◼   ► and then just put them into the NEOs, whether they have five or six,

00:22:31 ◼   ► because then you don't know what you're going to get.

00:22:33 ◼   ► And, you know, people are always waiting to, you know, file class action lawsuits again to Apple, right?

00:22:38 ◼   ► So if you decide that you're going to do the six, then they all have to have six,

00:22:42 ◼   ► and you need to update it on your spec page and say it's a new revision of the MacBook Neo.

00:22:45 ◼   ► They all have six now, right?

00:22:47 ◼   ► Because no one can really sue you about that.

00:22:49 ◼   ► You just made a better version of a product later.

00:22:51 ◼   ► But if you don't update the specs at all, but some of them have six and some of them have five,

00:22:56 ◼   ► I don't know if it would be a valid lawsuit,

00:22:58 ◼   ► but I can almost guarantee you somebody would sue and say,

00:23:02 ◼   ► oh, I paid the same price as this person and they got six and I got five

00:23:05 ◼   ► and the spec page says five, doesn't say anything about six.

00:23:07 ◼   ► What's the deal, Apple?

00:23:08 ◼   ► Someone would definitely sue over that.

00:23:09 ◼   ► Again, I don't know if they would win or if that is even remotely valid,

00:23:12 ◼   ► but people love to sue Apple over stuff like that.

00:23:15 ◼   ► So that's the only path they really can't take.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Any other path is open to them, including disabling the working ones

00:23:21 ◼   ► or just selling all the Mystic score.

00:23:22 ◼   ► I'm guessing they would actually just disable the working one to make it five

00:23:26 ◼   ► because I think that is the less problematic version of that.

00:23:30 ◼   ► And there's a lot of precedent for that in the chip business.

00:23:32 ◼   ► Well, you wouldn't waste the ones with only five then

00:23:35 ◼   ► because if you disable the other ones, then you can use every chip.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Well, not every chip, any chip, every chip with five or six you can use.

00:23:40 ◼   ► But if you only use the six ones, the ones with five,

00:23:43 ◼   ► like what are you going to save them for?

00:23:44 ◼   ► Is there going to be another product that's going to want a five GPU?

00:23:47 ◼   ► I'm saying like I think the best course of action, if they need to manufacture more A18 Pros,

00:23:52 ◼   ► I think the best course of action is basically lock them all to five GPUs

00:23:57 ◼   ► and continue to have the product be described and performing the same way.

00:24:02 ◼   ► And there is a lot of precedent for that.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Like back in the old days, there were all these hacks about like overclocking certain Celerons

00:24:09 ◼   ► because I believe Intel had a kind of a similar issue where like they were selling the Celeron

00:24:17 ◼   ► as like their discount chip, but their manufacturing at that time was pretty good.

00:24:22 ◼   ► And so they didn't really have enough like crappy, low performing stuff or whatever it was.

00:24:28 ◼   ► Like their production was so good that they had to basically like soft limit the chips

00:24:33 ◼   ► just to make enough of them to sell.

00:24:36 ◼   ► And your luck in overclocking the chip was kind of in part due to just like

00:24:41 ◼   ► however good yours happened to be above the spec they were actually selling it at.

00:24:45 ◼   ► I bet they got sued by somebody about that too.

00:24:47 ◼   ► I doubt it.

00:24:49 ◼   ► But because like people can sue for anything.

00:24:51 ◼   ► I'm not saying they won the case, but like that's the type of thing that someone would

00:24:54 ◼   ► sue over and say that shouldn't be a random lottery, you know.

00:24:57 ◼   ► Yeah, but it performed to what they advertised it as.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:25:01 ◼   ► I know.

00:25:01 ◼   ► I'm not saying they won the lawsuit.

00:25:02 ◼   ► I'm just saying that's exactly the type of thing people sue about.

00:25:05 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Lisa.

00:25:09 ◼   ► Lisa makes interesting and great mattresses.

00:25:12 ◼   ► Mattresses that are a combination of materials that you wouldn't have thought,

00:25:15 ◼   ► but work together extremely well.

00:25:17 ◼   ► So for example, Lisa was kind enough to send a mattress to us

00:25:21 ◼   ► and Michaela was in desperate need of a mattress after the cheapo Amazon one we got her

00:25:25 ◼   ► when she moved to a big bed was no good.

00:25:28 ◼   ► And so we landed on the natural hybrid mattress.

00:25:31 ◼   ► And this is really cool because among other things, it has breathable organic cotton

00:25:35 ◼   ► and moisture wicking New Zealand wool, which provides cool and comfortable slumber.

00:25:39 ◼   ► And let me tell you, when the mattress showed up, I thought, you know what?

00:25:42 ◼   ► I'm going to sleep on it for a few nights in a different bed and I'm going to see what I think.

00:25:47 ◼   ► And it is really good.

00:25:49 ◼   ► I've really enjoyed how comfortable it was.

00:25:51 ◼   ► I'm very picky about my mattresses.

00:25:53 ◼   ► And to be honest with you, I wasn't sure if I was going to like it.

00:25:55 ◼   ► And I really, really did.

00:25:56 ◼   ► It's really quite good.

00:25:58 ◼   ► You know, Lisa in general has a lineup of all sorts of different kinds of mattresses.

00:26:01 ◼   ► And so many, in fact, that I would advise taking the Lisa sleep quiz.

00:26:05 ◼   ► And you can find your perfect mattress match in just under two minutes.

00:26:09 ◼   ► Their mattresses are meticulously designed and assembled in the United States for exceptional quality.

00:26:13 ◼   ► And they back it all up with free shipping, easy returns, and a 120-night sleep trial.

00:26:18 ◼   ► It's really good stuff.

00:26:20 ◼   ► They've been awarded many times, for example, Best Hybrid and Best Memory Foam Mattresses by Wirecutter.

00:26:25 ◼   ► And they've been featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress provider.

00:26:28 ◼   ► So if you are interested, and you should be, like I said, I got the natural hybrid mattress,

00:26:34 ◼   ► but there's a zillion other options you can try.

00:26:36 ◼   ► And what you can do is go to Lisa.com for 20% off select mattresses,

00:26:40 ◼   ► plus get an extra $50 off the promo code ATP, exclusive for our listeners.

00:26:44 ◼   ► That's L-E-E-S-A.com, promo code ATP, for 20% off select mattresses, plus an extra $50 off.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Support our show and let them know we sent you after checkout.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Lisa.com, promo code ATP.

00:26:56 ◼   ► Thank you to Lisa for sponsoring the show.

00:26:59 ◼   ► All right.

00:27:03 ◼   ► With regard to Apple IDs and pass keys, Vitor writes,

00:27:06 ◼   ► the situation is even more bananas than you described last episode.

00:27:11 ◼   ► Apple added a pass key to my account without my consent with my original Apple ID email.

00:27:15 ◼   ► I've since changed that email, but every time I need to log in,

00:27:18 ◼   ► they still push me to do so with the pass key associated with the old email.

00:27:22 ◼   ► There's no way to remove or update that pass key.

00:27:24 ◼   ► I'm not alone with this problem, and we'll put in one link to Reddit,

00:27:27 ◼   ► the Apple Help subreddit, and a second link, in this case, to the pass key subreddit,

00:27:32 ◼   ► where Apple claims, or so claim somebody on Reddit,

00:27:35 ◼   ► that the fix would be made soon, two years ago.

00:27:39 ◼   ► Whoops.

00:27:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't quite understand the problem here,

00:27:42 ◼   ► but clearly it is a real problem of, like, Apple creating pass keys for you,

00:27:45 ◼   ► but they're, like, like everything else having to do with Apple IDs or Apple accounts,

00:27:48 ◼   ► that it's not normal.

00:27:49 ◼   ► It's its own special, unique snowflake that works differently than all the other stuff,

00:27:54 ◼   ► so I guess it won't show up in the passwords app.

00:27:56 ◼   ► And again, surprise, Apple implemented a supposed, you know,

00:28:00 ◼   ► sort of quality of life convenience feature,

00:28:02 ◼   ► where now you can change your Apple ID email.

00:28:03 ◼   ► I bet that won't cause any problems,

00:28:05 ◼   ► just, like, transferring purchases and all the other things they do that it seemed,

00:28:09 ◼   ► they seemed like a good idea until you actually try to use it,

00:28:12 ◼   ► and it turns out, you know, oh, I did, I used that feature where you could change your Apple ID email,

00:28:15 ◼   ► and now you're forever prompting me for a pass key I no longer have access to, apparently.

00:28:19 ◼   ► So, yeah, that whole system is so creaky.

00:28:21 ◼   ► Talk about, you know, again, making a John Turner's to-do list or whatever.

00:28:25 ◼   ► It's like, jeez.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Just there's so many parts of Apple that have not faced any competition in so long,

00:28:32 ◼   ► and they have not gotten any better, that are just filled with garbage,

00:28:35 ◼   ► and the Apple ID system is one of those.

00:28:37 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, especially around pass keys, around developer accounts being separate,

00:28:42 ◼   ► like, all of those conditions.

00:28:43 ◼   ► And it's funny, because, like, you know, the developer account issue is, like,

00:28:46 ◼   ► this is, like, every Apple developer hits this issue.

00:28:48 ◼   ► And the login process for a developer is so awkward,

00:28:52 ◼   ► because you have to first, like, hit cancel,

00:28:54 ◼   ► no, I don't want to use my pass key for my personal Apple ID,

00:28:57 ◼   ► and then log in for the developer, use the password,

00:29:00 ◼   ► and then if it prompts you for 2FA,

00:29:01 ◼   ► then you have to, even if the machine that you're on is trusted,

00:29:06 ◼   ► it will put up the dialog box with the six-digit code,

00:29:10 ◼   ► and the input box on the website that you're logging into

00:29:14 ◼   ► is centered perfectly in the middle of the browser window,

00:29:16 ◼   ► well, then the six-digit code dialog box is centered in the middle of the screen.

00:29:21 ◼   ► So it covers up.

00:29:23 ◼   ► If your browser window is centered on your screen,

00:29:24 ◼   ► then the code that pops up covers up where you have to enter it.

00:29:28 ◼   ► So you have to drag the code window off to the side a little bit

00:29:31 ◼   ► to be able to then re-access on the page the six-digit codes.

00:29:35 ◼   ► You can type it in, which it went on autofill.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Like, it's the worst experience.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Like, Apple has made logins so much nicer for everyone else except Apple.

00:29:44 ◼   ► It's very, very weird.

00:29:46 ◼   ► And you're forgetting my favorite game,

00:29:47 ◼   ► which now I find myself doing unconsciously,

00:29:49 ◼   ► which is, you know, when it sends me the little, you know,

00:29:53 ◼   ► Apple ID login thing that shows the map,

00:29:55 ◼   ► it'll send it to my phone or whatever,

00:29:56 ◼   ► and it'll say, you know, allow, deny,

00:29:58 ◼   ► and it shows the little map.

00:29:59 ◼   ► I'm like, yeah, that's me.

00:30:00 ◼   ► I hit allow.

00:30:01 ◼   ► After hitting allow, it then shows the six digits.

00:30:05 ◼   ► But sometimes, as I've complained about in the past,

00:30:07 ◼   ► sometimes it will show the six digits for a fraction of a second

00:30:09 ◼   ► before they disappear.

00:30:10 ◼   ► So now, when I hit that allow,

00:30:12 ◼   ► I prime my brain to memorize the six digits as they flash on the screen.

00:30:17 ◼   ► Because sometimes, as I've said when I was setting things up,

00:30:20 ◼   ► sometimes there's just no way to do, like, it will never stay, you know,

00:30:23 ◼   ► unless it comes up on my phone, I hit allow,

00:30:25 ◼   ► the six digits appear, and they immediately disappear.

00:30:27 ◼   ► And I have to memorize them in that fraction of a second that they appear,

00:30:30 ◼   ► so I get good at it.

00:30:31 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

00:30:32 ◼   ► Ridiculous.

00:30:33 ◼   ► All right.

00:30:34 ◼   ► And then finally for tonight,

00:30:35 ◼   ► some updates with regard to stealing television.

00:30:37 ◼   ► This is the overtime discussion we had in 679 about the super box

00:30:43 ◼   ► and the other ways that people are stealing TV.

00:30:45 ◼   ► And Nye Hughes writes,

00:30:47 ◼   ► this reminded me of a Guardian article that suggests,

00:30:50 ◼   ► in the UK at least,

00:30:51 ◼   ► modded Amazon Fire TV sticks are being used to log keystrokes

00:30:54 ◼   ► and passwords to enable fraud.

00:30:56 ◼   ► A recent survey, this is from the article,

00:30:58 ◼   ► a recent survey from B Streamwise,

00:31:00 ◼   ► a UK initiative established to counter the problem,

00:31:02 ◼   ► found two out of every five people who used illegal streaming were defrauded.

00:31:06 ◼   ► They lost an average of almost 1,700 pounds each as a result.

00:31:11 ◼   ► Whoopsie-dipsies.

00:31:12 ◼   ► The potential for fraud happens the minute you connect the dodgy stick,

00:31:15 ◼   ► or so it's called,

00:31:16 ◼   ► with a laptop or a TV,

00:31:18 ◼   ► according to Rob Shapland of Psionic Cyber.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Quote,

00:31:22 ◼   ► alongside the stream of TV or sports,

00:31:25 ◼   ► will also install some malware onto your computer

00:31:27 ◼   ► and give the criminal direct access to your computer

00:31:29 ◼   ► so that they can use it as if they were sitting there,

00:31:31 ◼   ► he claims, says, whatever.

00:31:32 ◼   ► Quote,

00:31:34 ◼   ► or they can install key loggers,

00:31:35 ◼   ► which will record any password you are typing.

00:31:37 ◼   ► So when you're accessing online banking,

00:31:38 ◼   ► it will record your banking passwords.

00:31:39 ◼   ► You are essentially volunteering to have your laptop hacked in many cases.

00:31:42 ◼   ► Whoopsie-dipsies.

00:31:43 ◼   ► And then additionally,

00:31:45 ◼   ► there was a Krebs on Security article

00:31:47 ◼   ► where Brian Krebs writes,

00:31:48 ◼   ► Ashley, an engineer at Census,

00:31:49 ◼   ► a cyber intelligence company,

00:31:51 ◼   ► found that the Superbox devices

00:31:52 ◼   ► immediately contacted a server

00:31:54 ◼   ► at the Chinese instant messaging service Tencent QQ,

00:31:56 ◼   ► as well as a residential proxy service called Grass.io.

00:32:00 ◼   ► Also known as GetGrass.io,

00:32:03 ◼   ► Grass says it is a decentralized network

00:32:05 ◼   ► that allows users to earn rewards

00:32:06 ◼   ► by sharing their unused internet bandwidth

00:32:08 ◼   ► with AI labs and other companies.

00:32:09 ◼   ► Quote,

00:32:10 ◼   ► buyers seek unused internet bandwidth

00:32:12 ◼   ► to access a more diverse range of IP addresses,

00:32:14 ◼   ► which enables them to see certain websites

00:32:15 ◼   ► from a retail perspective,

00:32:16 ◼   ► the Grass website explains.

00:32:18 ◼   ► By utilizing your unused internet bandwidth,

00:32:21 ◼   ► they can conduct market research

00:32:22 ◼   ► or perform tasks like web scraping to train AI.

00:32:25 ◼   ► I would just love to meet,

00:32:26 ◼   ► I think the person who wrote this copy

00:32:27 ◼   ► did such a good job

00:32:28 ◼   ► because it's like,

00:32:29 ◼   ► okay, here's what we're doing.

00:32:31 ◼   ► We need to appear to be legitimate people.

00:32:33 ◼   ► So we're going to come

00:32:34 ◼   ► and do your legitimate people's internet connection.

00:32:36 ◼   ► So basically we'll be indistinguishable

00:32:37 ◼   ► from legitimate people.

00:32:38 ◼   ► Basically we want to turn people

00:32:39 ◼   ► into a giant bot that we can control.

00:32:40 ◼   ► All right, now you write copy for that

00:32:42 ◼   ► and make it sound not nefarious.

00:32:43 ◼   ► They want to access

00:32:45 ◼   ► a more diverse range of IP addresses,

00:32:47 ◼   ► which enables them to see certain websites

00:32:49 ◼   ► from a retail perspective.

00:32:51 ◼   ► They did it.

00:32:52 ◼   ► They did it.

00:32:54 ◼   ► You made it not sound terrible,

00:32:55 ◼   ► but it is.

00:32:57 ◼   ► It's really terrible.

00:32:57 ◼   ► It sure is.

00:32:59 ◼   ► So finally from Krebs on security,

00:33:01 ◼   ► it may be that many Superbox customers

00:33:04 ◼   ► don't care if someone uses their internet connection

00:33:06 ◼   ► to tunnel traffic for ad fraud

00:33:07 ◼   ► and account takeovers.

00:33:08 ◼   ► For them-

00:33:08 ◼   ► Oh, I forgot about ad fraud.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Yeah, making it seem like people

00:33:10 ◼   ► are clicking on ad banners.

00:33:11 ◼   ► They're coming from legit IP addresses.

00:33:14 ◼   ► For them, it beats paying

00:33:16 ◼   ► for multiple streaming services each month.

00:33:18 ◼   ► My guess, however,

00:33:19 ◼   ► is that quite a few people

00:33:20 ◼   ► who buy or are gifted these products

00:33:21 ◼   ► have little understanding

00:33:22 ◼   ► of the bargain they're making

00:33:23 ◼   ► when they plug them into an internet router.

00:33:24 ◼   ► Some of the other,

00:33:26 ◼   ► I didn't pull the quotes,

00:33:27 ◼   ► but some other sections of the same article,

00:33:29 ◼   ► I believe it was the Krebs article,

00:33:30 ◼   ► talk about how they use some sort of hack.

00:33:33 ◼   ► I'm outside my comfort zone,

00:33:34 ◼   ► but basically they force a device

00:33:37 ◼   ► that's already on your local network

00:33:39 ◼   ► to crash or what have you.

00:33:41 ◼   ► Again, my terminology is wrong.

00:33:42 ◼   ► And they will then slurp up that IP address

00:33:45 ◼   ► so it looks even more legitimate

00:33:47 ◼   ► to your own network.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Like, it's crazy

00:33:49 ◼   ► some of the shenanigans these things do.

00:33:51 ◼   ► Basically, do not touch.

00:33:52 ◼   ► And then finally, with regard to this,

00:33:54 ◼   ► David Brownman writes,

00:33:56 ◼   ► the DocNet Diaries podcast

00:33:57 ◼   ► did a pretty detailed episode

00:33:59 ◼   ► on the cybersecurity side of the Superbox,

00:34:01 ◼   ► and we'll put a link to that in the show notes.

00:34:03 ◼   ► Yeah, so we did touch on this in the overtime

00:34:05 ◼   ► that there's, you know,

00:34:06 ◼   ► lots of these boxes are shady

00:34:07 ◼   ► and people claim that the software on them

00:34:09 ◼   ► is attacking people or whatever,

00:34:10 ◼   ► but this is like a concrete study

00:34:12 ◼   ► from the UK saying that people

00:34:14 ◼   ► are getting their money stolen for real,

00:34:15 ◼   ► like immeasurable large amounts

00:34:18 ◼   ► by using these products.

00:34:19 ◼   ► And, you know,

00:34:20 ◼   ► the attraction of getting TV for free

00:34:23 ◼   ► is apparently enough

00:34:24 ◼   ► to keep people coming back,

00:34:26 ◼   ► but they're bad news.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Indeed.

00:34:29 ◼   ► All right.

00:34:29 ◼   ► Let's talk topics.

00:34:31 ◼   ► And maybe I should have poured a drink

00:34:33 ◼   ► for this episode

00:34:33 ◼   ► because we got to talk about ads

00:34:35 ◼   ► in Apple Maps, baby.

00:34:36 ◼   ► For real this time.

00:34:38 ◼   ► So Emma Roth,

00:34:39 ◼   ► the Verge wrote,

00:34:40 ◼   ► I don't know,

00:34:40 ◼   ► I think a few weeks ago

00:34:41 ◼   ► as we record this,

00:34:42 ◼   ► Apple will soon allow businesses

00:34:44 ◼   ► to buy advertisements

00:34:45 ◼   ► in its Maps app.

00:34:47 ◼   ► In an announcement on Tuesday,

00:34:48 ◼   ► Apple says ads may appear

00:34:50 ◼   ► at the top of your search results

00:34:51 ◼   ► in Maps,

00:34:51 ◼   ► as well as in a new

00:34:52 ◼   ► suggested places list.

00:34:54 ◼   ► They will arrive in-app

00:34:55 ◼   ► in the US and Canada

00:34:56 ◼   ► this summer.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Marco,

00:34:58 ◼   ► if you wouldn't mind,

00:34:59 ◼   ► would you prepare your bleep gun?

00:35:01 ◼   ► Because this is such

00:35:03 ◼   ► fucking bullshit

00:35:04 ◼   ► and I hate it so much.

00:35:05 ◼   ► I haven't even seen it

00:35:06 ◼   ► and I hate it.

00:35:07 ◼   ► Oh,

00:35:07 ◼   ► it makes me so mad.

00:35:08 ◼   ► It makes me so mad

00:35:10 ◼   ► because I,

00:35:11 ◼   ► and I think many like me,

00:35:12 ◼   ► came to Apple

00:35:14 ◼   ► because we were so used

00:35:16 ◼   ► to getting PCs

00:35:17 ◼   ► filled with bullshit malware,

00:35:20 ◼   ► just overflowing with it

00:35:22 ◼   ► everywhere.

00:35:23 ◼   ► By the way,

00:35:24 ◼   ► on that topic,

00:35:25 ◼   ► and I know this is not

00:35:26 ◼   ► in the notes of this week

00:35:26 ◼   ► and maybe we'll talk

00:35:27 ◼   ► about it next week,

00:35:28 ◼   ► but there was a recent interview

00:35:29 ◼   ► that Jaws and Ternus

00:35:31 ◼   ► did with Tom's hardware

00:35:32 ◼   ► and they were,

00:35:33 ◼   ► they were fielding

00:35:34 ◼   ► a bunch of softball questions

00:35:35 ◼   ► about like what's great

00:35:36 ◼   ► about Apple products

00:35:37 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:35:37 ◼   ► And,

00:35:38 ◼   ► and they went through

00:35:39 ◼   ► everything that's great about it,

00:35:40 ◼   ► but then they were on

00:35:40 ◼   ► to the next question

00:35:41 ◼   ► and ATP style,

00:35:42 ◼   ► one of them,

00:35:43 ◼   ► I forget who it was,

00:35:43 ◼   ► says,

00:35:43 ◼   ► oh yeah,

00:35:44 ◼   ► and also,

00:35:44 ◼   ► don't forget,

00:35:45 ◼   ► Macs aren't loaded up

00:35:46 ◼   ► with bloatware.

00:35:47 ◼   ► That was their point

00:35:49 ◼   ► that like,

00:35:49 ◼   ► unlike the competing PC products,

00:35:51 ◼   ► the products that compete

00:35:52 ◼   ► with the MacBook Neo,

00:35:53 ◼   ► when you get a Mac,

00:35:54 ◼   ► it's not filled with like,

00:35:55 ◼   ► you know,

00:35:55 ◼   ► like you said,

00:35:56 ◼   ► a bunch of crappy software

00:35:57 ◼   ► that you don't want

00:35:58 ◼   ► that's thrown a bunch

00:35:59 ◼   ► of stuff in your face

00:36:00 ◼   ► and I felt like reaching

00:36:00 ◼   ► through the YouTube screen

00:36:02 ◼   ► and saying,

00:36:02 ◼   ► but it is,

00:36:03 ◼   ► increasingly it is.

00:36:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:05 ◼   ► Have you seen the defaults,

00:36:06 ◼   ► the doc?

00:36:08 ◼   ► God,

00:36:08 ◼   ► I just had my,

00:36:09 ◼   ► blue screen.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Obviously when it's Apple stuff,

00:36:11 ◼   ► that's not an ad,

00:36:12 ◼   ► that's Apple stuff.

00:36:13 ◼   ► No,

00:36:13 ◼   ► I know,

00:36:14 ◼   ► exactly,

00:36:14 ◼   ► but like the default.

00:36:15 ◼   ► The new version of Pages.

00:36:16 ◼   ► So I actually have seen

00:36:17 ◼   ► the default doc

00:36:18 ◼   ► because,

00:36:19 ◼   ► when I was setting up

00:36:21 ◼   ► 48 Mac minis

00:36:22 ◼   ► without doing any kind

00:36:23 ◼   ► of MDM,

00:36:24 ◼   ► one of my steps

00:36:25 ◼   ► was taking all of those

00:36:27 ◼   ► out one by one.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Whoosh.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Whoosh.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Whoosh.

00:36:29 ◼   ► You can automate that

00:36:30 ◼   ► by just deleting the,

00:36:32 ◼   ► changing the P list.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Well,

00:36:33 ◼   ► I didn't know that

00:36:34 ◼   ► at the time.

00:36:34 ◼   ► I didn't want to ask you

00:36:35 ◼   ► because then it would

00:36:35 ◼   ► spoil the bit.

00:36:36 ◼   ► So I did it.

00:36:37 ◼   ► I,

00:36:37 ◼   ► every single,

00:36:38 ◼   ► for 48 Mac minis,

00:36:41 ◼   ► one of my setup steps

00:36:42 ◼   ► was dragging out

00:36:43 ◼   ► all like,

00:36:43 ◼   ► you know,

00:36:44 ◼   ► 15 of the doc icons

00:36:45 ◼   ► out of the doc,

00:36:46 ◼   ► except for,

00:36:46 ◼   ► did you get really good

00:36:47 ◼   ► at figuring out

00:36:48 ◼   ► where the remove thing

00:36:49 ◼   ► appears?

00:36:49 ◼   ► Yeah,

00:36:49 ◼   ► because it's not,

00:36:50 ◼   ► you know,

00:36:50 ◼   ► you have to go up

00:36:51 ◼   ► a little bit,

00:36:51 ◼   ► like,

00:36:52 ◼   ► you know,

00:36:52 ◼   ► it can't just be like,

00:36:53 ◼   ► you know,

00:36:53 ◼   ► the first pixel.

00:36:54 ◼   ► You got to go up

00:36:55 ◼   ► like,

00:36:55 ◼   ► you know,

00:36:55 ◼   ► 200 pixels up.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Remember when it used

00:36:57 ◼   ► to have the poof?

00:36:57 ◼   ► Yeah,

00:36:58 ◼   ► exactly.

00:36:58 ◼   ► Well,

00:36:58 ◼   ► and it still makes

00:36:59 ◼   ► the same sound.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Those are the days.

00:37:00 ◼   ► And that's just,

00:37:01 ◼   ► anyway,

00:37:03 ◼   ► sorry to derail you,

00:37:03 ◼   ► Casey.

00:37:04 ◼   ► No,

00:37:04 ◼   ► no,

00:37:04 ◼   ► no,

00:37:04 ◼   ► not filled with bloatware.

00:37:05 ◼   ► I'm not sorry.

00:37:06 ◼   ► So,

00:37:08 ◼   ► anyways,

00:37:09 ◼   ► you know,

00:37:09 ◼   ► so many of us,

00:37:10 ◼   ► and I think especially

00:37:11 ◼   ► those of us who had grown

00:37:12 ◼   ► up with PCs,

00:37:13 ◼   ► like Marco,

00:37:13 ◼   ► like me,

00:37:14 ◼   ► came to Apple

00:37:15 ◼   ► because especially

00:37:16 ◼   ► circa,

00:37:17 ◼   ► you know,

00:37:17 ◼   ► mid-2000s,

00:37:18 ◼   ► my recollection,

00:37:19 ◼   ► maybe I'm just looking

00:37:20 ◼   ► with rose-colored glasses,

00:37:21 ◼   ► but my recollection was

00:37:22 ◼   ► I had been using PCs

00:37:24 ◼   ► for so long,

00:37:25 ◼   ► they were utter crap.

00:37:26 ◼   ► They were crap

00:37:27 ◼   ► in ways that I knew

00:37:28 ◼   ► and crap in ways

00:37:29 ◼   ► that I didn't even

00:37:30 ◼   ► understand yet.

00:37:30 ◼   ► And they were crap.

00:37:31 ◼   ► And then finally,

00:37:33 ◼   ► and John,

00:37:34 ◼   ► I mean,

00:37:34 ◼   ► the timeline may not

00:37:36 ◼   ► be exactly right,

00:37:36 ◼   ► but the way I recall it

00:37:37 ◼   ► is that it was around

00:37:39 ◼   ► the mid-aughts

00:37:39 ◼   ► that Mac OS X

00:37:42 ◼   ► was really starting

00:37:42 ◼   ► to get its junk together.

00:37:43 ◼   ► Now,

00:37:43 ◼   ► you could argue

00:37:44 ◼   ► it was great

00:37:45 ◼   ► from the beginning,

00:37:45 ◼   ► but it was like

00:37:45 ◼   ► properly good

00:37:46 ◼   ► at this point.

00:37:47 ◼   ► And so,

00:37:48 ◼   ► I moved to the Mac

00:37:49 ◼   ► and I think it was 2008,

00:37:50 ◼   ► if I'm not mistaken,

00:37:51 ◼   ► maybe it was 2007.

00:37:52 ◼   ► No,

00:37:52 ◼   ► it was 2007.

00:37:53 ◼   ► And it was such

00:37:55 ◼   ► a breath of fresh air.

00:37:56 ◼   ► Everything worked.

00:37:57 ◼   ► It was intuitive.

00:37:59 ◼   ► It was beautiful.

00:38:00 ◼   ► There was no garbage.

00:38:01 ◼   ► I didn't have to

00:38:02 ◼   ► put my wrist

00:38:03 ◼   ► on an Intel inside sticker

00:38:04 ◼   ► for the rest of time

00:38:05 ◼   ► and just watch it

00:38:07 ◼   ► peel away slowly,

00:38:08 ◼   ► but surely.

00:38:09 ◼   ► And everything

00:38:10 ◼   ► was so amazing

00:38:11 ◼   ► and so wonderful.

00:38:12 ◼   ► And I feel like

00:38:14 ◼   ► in the last five,

00:38:15 ◼   ► maybe ten years

00:38:15 ◼   ► in particular,

00:38:16 ◼   ► all of that goodness

00:38:18 ◼   ► has gone away

00:38:19 ◼   ► in various

00:38:20 ◼   ► different ways.

00:38:21 ◼   ► Software isn't as stable

00:38:24 ◼   ► as it was.

00:38:25 ◼   ► The Apple software

00:38:25 ◼   ► isn't as stable

00:38:26 ◼   ► as it was.

00:38:26 ◼   ► And it does

00:38:28 ◼   ► so many things.

00:38:29 ◼   ► And I think

00:38:31 ◼   ► Apple is spread

00:38:32 ◼   ► so thin

00:38:33 ◼   ► that they lose

00:38:34 ◼   ► track of things.

00:38:35 ◼   ► Like we were just

00:38:36 ◼   ► lamenting a moment ago,

00:38:37 ◼   ► like Apple IDs.

00:38:38 ◼   ► But I feel like

00:38:39 ◼   ► the software's been

00:38:40 ◼   ► spread so thin,

00:38:41 ◼   ► there's so many

00:38:42 ◼   ► edge cases

00:38:42 ◼   ► that Apple

00:38:42 ◼   ► no longer conquers.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Now,

00:38:44 ◼   ► in the defense of Apple,

00:38:45 ◼   ► it's also gotten

00:38:45 ◼   ► way more complicated,

00:38:46 ◼   ► which is hard.

00:38:47 ◼   ► It's very hard.

00:38:48 ◼   ► But it doesn't

00:38:49 ◼   ► just work anymore.

00:38:51 ◼   ► and that bums me out.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Additionally,

00:38:54 ◼   ► the search for

00:38:56 ◼   ► ever more money

00:38:57 ◼   ► and ever more services

00:38:58 ◼   ► revenue

00:38:58 ◼   ► means that

00:38:59 ◼   ► instead of just

00:39:00 ◼   ► being a company

00:39:01 ◼   ► that makes their money

00:39:02 ◼   ► off of hardware,

00:39:03 ◼   ► now they have to

00:39:04 ◼   ► make their money

00:39:05 ◼   ► off of recurring revenue

00:39:06 ◼   ► from me paying them

00:39:07 ◼   ► for things

00:39:08 ◼   ► that sometimes I think,

00:39:09 ◼   ► yes,

00:39:10 ◼   ► they deserve money

00:39:11 ◼   ► for this.

00:39:11 ◼   ► And sometimes I'm like,

00:39:12 ◼   ► what is going on here?

00:39:13 ◼   ► For example,

00:39:13 ◼   ► iCloud storage.

00:39:14 ◼   ► I should probably

00:39:15 ◼   ► pay them

00:39:15 ◼   ► for some amount

00:39:16 ◼   ► of iCloud storage,

00:39:17 ◼   ► but should that

00:39:17 ◼   ► iCloud storage

00:39:18 ◼   ► still be 5 gigabytes

00:39:19 ◼   ► in the year 2026?

00:39:22 ◼   ► I think not.

00:39:23 ◼   ► And it's just frustrating

00:39:26 ◼   ► that this is

00:39:26 ◼   ► yet another example.

00:39:28 ◼   ► This is yet another example

00:39:30 ◼   ► of things just getting

00:39:32 ◼   ► ickier

00:39:32 ◼   ► and getting more

00:39:34 ◼   ► Windows-like.

00:39:35 ◼   ► And honestly,

00:39:35 ◼   ► I haven't used Windows

00:39:36 ◼   ► in over a decade.

00:39:37 ◼   ► And it is,

00:39:39 ◼   ► I genuinely wonder

00:39:40 ◼   ► at this point,

00:39:41 ◼   ► is Windows

00:39:43 ◼   ► less garbaged up

00:39:45 ◼   ► than Apple stuff?

00:39:46 ◼   ► No,

00:39:46 ◼   ► Windows is getting worse.

00:39:47 ◼   ► They're putting ads

00:39:48 ◼   ► in the start menu and stuff.

00:39:49 ◼   ► All right,

00:39:49 ◼   ► well,

00:39:49 ◼   ► that makes you feel

00:39:50 ◼   ► a little bit better.

00:39:50 ◼   ► And this is part

00:39:52 ◼   ► of the shame of it.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And this is kind of

00:39:53 ◼   ► part of what I was hoping,

00:39:54 ◼   ► what I was trying to get at

00:39:55 ◼   ► with my letter to John Ternas

00:39:57 ◼   ► blog post.

00:39:57 ◼   ► Apple is getting

00:39:59 ◼   ► significantly worse

00:40:01 ◼   ► in certain ways

00:40:02 ◼   ► in areas that are

00:40:03 ◼   ► very important to us.

00:40:04 ◼   ► But no one else

00:40:07 ◼   ► is getting better at it.

00:40:08 ◼   ► It's not like Windows

00:40:09 ◼   ► is amazing at this.

00:40:11 ◼   ► Yeah,

00:40:11 ◼   ► Windows is worse

00:40:12 ◼   ► than it's ever been

00:40:12 ◼   ► at this,

00:40:12 ◼   ► arguably.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Industry-wide,

00:40:16 ◼   ► there is a slow

00:40:17 ◼   ► process of,

00:40:19 ◼   ► I won't use

00:40:21 ◼   ► Cory Doctorow's word

00:40:22 ◼   ► necessarily,

00:40:22 ◼   ► because I don't think

00:40:23 ◼   ► it quite fits here,

00:40:23 ◼   ► but there's a slow

00:40:25 ◼   ► process of just

00:40:26 ◼   ► erosion of respect

00:40:29 ◼   ► for users' time,

00:40:31 ◼   ► attention,

00:40:32 ◼   ► and resources.

00:40:33 ◼   ► Motivated by

00:40:34 ◼   ► the possibility

00:40:35 ◼   ► of making more money.

00:40:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:40:36 ◼   ► And even,

00:40:37 ◼   ► and if it's,

00:40:38 ◼   ► the reality is,

00:40:39 ◼   ► like,

00:40:40 ◼   ► in many industries,

00:40:41 ◼   ► their margins

00:40:42 ◼   ► get super squeezed,

00:40:43 ◼   ► and they get

00:40:44 ◼   ► desperate.

00:40:44 ◼   ► And they start

00:40:46 ◼   ► doing things

00:40:47 ◼   ► that are crappy

00:40:47 ◼   ► because they kind

00:40:49 ◼   ► of have to

00:40:49 ◼   ► to make any money

00:40:50 ◼   ► at all.

00:40:51 ◼   ► And the really sad

00:40:52 ◼   ► thing is,

00:40:52 ◼   ► that's always been

00:40:54 ◼   ► Apple's competitors.

00:40:54 ◼   ► That's never been

00:40:55 ◼   ► Apple's situation.

00:40:56 ◼   ► Apple,

00:40:57 ◼   ► I mean,

00:40:57 ◼   ► not never,

00:40:57 ◼   ► but, you know,

00:40:58 ◼   ► certainly not in the

00:40:59 ◼   ► modern era.

00:41:00 ◼   ► Apple's modern era

00:41:01 ◼   ► is,

00:41:02 ◼   ► they have more money

00:41:03 ◼   ► than they know

00:41:04 ◼   ► what to do with.

00:41:05 ◼   ► They don't need

00:41:06 ◼   ► to become desperate

00:41:08 ◼   ► to find ways

00:41:09 ◼   ► to make 0.5%

00:41:11 ◼   ► more money.

00:41:11 ◼   ► They can just

00:41:13 ◼   ► make better products.

00:41:13 ◼   ► Look,

00:41:14 ◼   ► we were just talking

00:41:15 ◼   ► about the MacBook Neo

00:41:16 ◼   ► doing really well,

00:41:18 ◼   ► like,

00:41:19 ◼   ► blowing away

00:41:19 ◼   ► expectations

00:41:20 ◼   ► because they made

00:41:22 ◼   ► a really good product

00:41:22 ◼   ► and people like it.

00:41:23 ◼   ► It fits the market well,

00:41:24 ◼   ► it's there

00:41:26 ◼   ► at a good time,

00:41:26 ◼   ► you know,

00:41:27 ◼   ► the opportunity

00:41:27 ◼   ► to take market share

00:41:28 ◼   ► from PCs right now

00:41:30 ◼   ► is really huge

00:41:31 ◼   ► for lots of reasons.

00:41:32 ◼   ► And so,

00:41:32 ◼   ► what a great product.

00:41:33 ◼   ► Look at the success

00:41:35 ◼   ► of the iPhone 17 Pro.

00:41:36 ◼   ► They made the cool orange one

00:41:38 ◼   ► and it's a great product.

00:41:40 ◼   ► They, like,

00:41:40 ◼   ► so they had this cool color

00:41:41 ◼   ► that did the marketing

00:41:43 ◼   ► for them largely

00:41:43 ◼   ► and then they made

00:41:45 ◼   ► this amazing pro phone

00:41:46 ◼   ► that took what we wanted

00:41:48 ◼   ► about iPhones

00:41:48 ◼   ► and removed certain pain points,

00:41:50 ◼   ► made things better,

00:41:51 ◼   ► like,

00:41:52 ◼   ► it's just,

00:41:52 ◼   ► the iPhone 17 Pro

00:41:53 ◼   ► is an amazing product.

00:41:55 ◼   ► Look at the modern Macs.

00:41:56 ◼   ► The modern Macs

00:41:57 ◼   ► beyond just the Neo.

00:41:58 ◼   ► They're amazing.

00:42:00 ◼   ► They're so amazing

00:42:01 ◼   ► you can't even buy

00:42:02 ◼   ► the desktops anymore

00:42:03 ◼   ► right now

00:42:03 ◼   ► because they're all sold out.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Like,

00:42:05 ◼   ► the modern Mac lineup

00:42:07 ◼   ► is so good.

00:42:08 ◼   ► There is not a single

00:42:10 ◼   ► bad laptop

00:42:11 ◼   ► that Apple sells anymore.

00:42:12 ◼   ► What a thing

00:42:13 ◼   ► to be able to say

00:42:14 ◼   ► after, you know,

00:42:15 ◼   ► some of the kind of

00:42:15 ◼   ► mid-2010s

00:42:17 ◼   ► kind of years

00:42:18 ◼   ► there got kind of bad.

00:42:19 ◼   ► But,

00:42:20 ◼   ► what an amazing state

00:42:22 ◼   ► the products are in

00:42:23 ◼   ► and they can make

00:42:24 ◼   ► more money

00:42:24 ◼   ► by expanding

00:42:26 ◼   ► the market

00:42:27 ◼   ► of those products

00:42:28 ◼   ► or by making people

00:42:29 ◼   ► upgrade

00:42:30 ◼   ► when they're

00:42:30 ◼   ► compelling upgrades.

00:42:31 ◼   ► And they do.

00:42:32 ◼   ► That is still

00:42:33 ◼   ► how they make

00:42:33 ◼   ► most of their money.

00:42:34 ◼   ► They can even have

00:42:35 ◼   ► this whole thing

00:42:36 ◼   ► called services

00:42:37 ◼   ► even though

00:42:38 ◼   ► what services

00:42:39 ◼   ► makes most of us

00:42:40 ◼   ► money from

00:42:40 ◼   ► is rents

00:42:41 ◼   ► and, you know,

00:42:41 ◼   ► but let's,

00:42:42 ◼   ► we'll put that aside

00:42:43 ◼   ► for this particular

00:42:44 ◼   ► part of this discussion.

00:42:45 ◼   ► You know,

00:42:46 ◼   ► services

00:42:47 ◼   ► makes tons of money

00:42:48 ◼   ► based on

00:42:49 ◼   ► delivering

00:42:51 ◼   ► additional

00:42:52 ◼   ► revenue sources

00:42:53 ◼   ► to their products

00:42:54 ◼   ► most of which

00:42:55 ◼   ► don't annoy

00:42:57 ◼   ► or badger

00:42:58 ◼   ► or harass

00:42:59 ◼   ► their users.

00:42:59 ◼   ► Most.

00:43:01 ◼   ► And then they

00:43:03 ◼   ► started selling ads

00:43:04 ◼   ► first in the app store

00:43:05 ◼   ► and, you know,

00:43:07 ◼   ► now coming to Maps.

00:43:08 ◼   ► And there's a few

00:43:10 ◼   ► things about this

00:43:11 ◼   ► that irritate me greatly.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Number one,

00:43:13 ◼   ► it's just not

00:43:15 ◼   ► that much money

00:43:16 ◼   ► relative to

00:43:17 ◼   ► the services category.

00:43:19 ◼   ► especially since

00:43:19 ◼   ► Apple's really bad

00:43:20 ◼   ► at selling ads

00:43:20 ◼   ► against anything.

00:43:21 ◼   ► Well, see that,

00:43:22 ◼   ► yeah, that's,

00:43:22 ◼   ► that's the second part

00:43:23 ◼   ► that annoys me.

00:43:24 ◼   ► So, like,

00:43:24 ◼   ► is there,

00:43:24 ◼   ► what is the potential

00:43:25 ◼   ► upside for Apple?

00:43:26 ◼   ► Not what is the

00:43:27 ◼   ► potential upside

00:43:27 ◼   ► for Google

00:43:28 ◼   ► because Apple's

00:43:28 ◼   ► not Google.

00:43:29 ◼   ► Yeah, the second

00:43:30 ◼   ► part of this

00:43:31 ◼   ► that annoys me

00:43:31 ◼   ► is that

00:43:32 ◼   ► I have been

00:43:33 ◼   ► an Apple search

00:43:34 ◼   ► ads customer

00:43:35 ◼   ► since search ads

00:43:37 ◼   ► launched.

00:43:37 ◼   ► I actually,

00:43:37 ◼   ► I just paused

00:43:38 ◼   ► my search ad

00:43:39 ◼   ► campaign

00:43:40 ◼   ► for the first

00:43:41 ◼   ► time in years

00:43:42 ◼   ► just about a month

00:43:43 ◼   ► ago because I'm

00:43:44 ◼   ► mad at them.

00:43:45 ◼   ► But the Apple

00:43:46 ◼   ► search ads

00:43:47 ◼   ► product

00:43:47 ◼   ► is

00:43:48 ◼   ► awful.

00:43:49 ◼   ► The only thing

00:43:51 ◼   ► holding it up

00:43:51 ◼   ► as being anything

00:43:52 ◼   ► that is worth

00:43:53 ◼   ► anyone ever

00:43:53 ◼   ► spending money

00:43:54 ◼   ► on is that

00:43:55 ◼   ► there are still

00:43:56 ◼   ► a lot of people

00:43:56 ◼   ► in the apps

00:43:56 ◼   ► that are searching

00:43:57 ◼   ► for things

00:43:57 ◼   ► and now they've

00:43:58 ◼   ► created this

00:43:58 ◼   ► awful situation

00:43:59 ◼   ► for all of us

00:44:00 ◼   ► which is

00:44:01 ◼   ► if you don't

00:44:02 ◼   ► buy like

00:44:03 ◼   ► your own name

00:44:04 ◼   ► and your own

00:44:04 ◼   ► keywords

00:44:04 ◼   ► everyone else

00:44:05 ◼   ► will buy them

00:44:06 ◼   ► and you will

00:44:06 ◼   ► have to fight

00:44:07 ◼   ► and now you

00:44:08 ◼   ► have to pay

00:44:08 ◼   ► Apple extra

00:44:09 ◼   ► just to get

00:44:10 ◼   ► to your own

00:44:10 ◼   ► customers

00:44:11 ◼   ► that you were

00:44:11 ◼   ► already going

00:44:12 ◼   ► to get before

00:44:12 ◼   ► and

00:44:13 ◼   ► they're still

00:44:15 ◼   ► taking their

00:44:15 ◼   ► 30%

00:44:16 ◼   ► of course

00:44:17 ◼   ► of all your

00:44:17 ◼   ► in-app purchases

00:44:18 ◼   ► and stuff

00:44:18 ◼   ► so it just

00:44:19 ◼   ► feels a lot

00:44:20 ◼   ► like double

00:44:20 ◼   ► dipping

00:44:20 ◼   ► but it's

00:44:23 ◼   ► a crappy

00:44:24 ◼   ► ads product

00:44:25 ◼   ► and it makes

00:44:26 ◼   ► the app store

00:44:27 ◼   ► worse

00:44:28 ◼   ► for everybody

00:44:29 ◼   ► except Apple

00:44:29 ◼   ► Apple makes

00:44:31 ◼   ► a little bit

00:44:31 ◼   ► more money

00:44:32 ◼   ► from that

00:44:32 ◼   ► great

00:44:33 ◼   ► good job

00:44:33 ◼   ► everything else

00:44:34 ◼   ► is worse

00:44:35 ◼   ► it's worse

00:44:35 ◼   ► for customers

00:44:36 ◼   ► it's worse

00:44:37 ◼   ► for most

00:44:38 ◼   ► developers

00:44:38 ◼   ► and it's

00:44:39 ◼   ► mostly just

00:44:40 ◼   ► a way

00:44:40 ◼   ► for big

00:44:41 ◼   ► companies

00:44:41 ◼   ► to pour

00:44:42 ◼   ► a bit

00:44:42 ◼   ► more money

00:44:42 ◼   ► into Apple's

00:44:43 ◼   ► pocket

00:44:43 ◼   ► with high

00:44:44 ◼   ► bids on

00:44:44 ◼   ► keywords

00:44:44 ◼   ► and now

00:44:47 ◼   ► they're bringing

00:44:47 ◼   ► that same

00:44:48 ◼   ► benefit to

00:44:48 ◼   ► Maps

00:44:49 ◼   ► great

00:44:50 ◼   ► adding ads

00:44:51 ◼   ► in places

00:44:52 ◼   ► like this

00:44:52 ◼   ► to make

00:44:53 ◼   ► reasonably

00:44:54 ◼   ► small amounts

00:44:55 ◼   ► of additional

00:44:56 ◼   ► revenue

00:44:56 ◼   ► sells out

00:44:58 ◼   ► the user

00:44:58 ◼   ► experience

00:44:59 ◼   ► yes

00:45:00 ◼   ► a little

00:45:00 ◼   ► bit

00:45:01 ◼   ► yes

00:45:01 ◼   ► it sells

00:45:02 ◼   ► it out

00:45:02 ◼   ► because

00:45:02 ◼   ► what Apple

00:45:03 ◼   ► what their

00:45:04 ◼   ► actions say

00:45:05 ◼   ► here is

00:45:06 ◼   ► it matters

00:45:07 ◼   ► less to us

00:45:08 ◼   ► to have

00:45:08 ◼   ► a great

00:45:09 ◼   ► high-end

00:45:10 ◼   ► premium

00:45:10 ◼   ► user

00:45:11 ◼   ► experience

00:45:11 ◼   ► we would

00:45:12 ◼   ► rather make

00:45:13 ◼   ► 1% more

00:45:13 ◼   ► money

00:45:13 ◼   ► and they

00:45:14 ◼   ► have

00:45:14 ◼   ► seemingly

00:45:15 ◼   ► run out

00:45:15 ◼   ► of ideas

00:45:16 ◼   ► to make

00:45:16 ◼   ► 1% more

00:45:16 ◼   ► money

00:45:17 ◼   ► in other

00:45:17 ◼   ► ways

00:45:17 ◼   ► I guess

00:45:18 ◼   ► or they

00:45:18 ◼   ► just don't

00:45:18 ◼   ► care

00:45:19 ◼   ► and this

00:45:19 ◼   ► is like

00:45:19 ◼   ► the hallmark

00:45:20 ◼   ► of the

00:45:20 ◼   ► Tim Cook

00:45:21 ◼   ► era

00:45:21 ◼   ► is like

00:45:22 ◼   ► product

00:45:23 ◼   ► direction

00:45:23 ◼   ► by numbers

00:45:24 ◼   ► and there's

00:45:26 ◼   ► a place

00:45:26 ◼   ► for numbers

00:45:27 ◼   ► try the new

00:45:28 ◼   ► version of

00:45:28 ◼   ► numbers

00:45:29 ◼   ► oh my god

00:45:29 ◼   ► oh that's

00:45:31 ◼   ► a whole other

00:45:31 ◼   ► don't even

00:45:32 ◼   ► get me

00:45:32 ◼   ► started

00:45:33 ◼   ► on that

00:45:34 ◼   ► oh I'm

00:45:34 ◼   ► so mad

00:45:35 ◼   ► about that

00:45:35 ◼   ► but again

00:45:37 ◼   ► but that's

00:45:37 ◼   ► that's actually

00:45:38 ◼   ► a similar

00:45:39 ◼   ► problem here

00:45:39 ◼   ► it's like

00:45:40 ◼   ► nothing is

00:45:41 ◼   ► sacred to them

00:45:41 ◼   ► anymore

00:45:42 ◼   ► in the user

00:45:43 ◼   ► experience

00:45:43 ◼   ► they are

00:45:44 ◼   ► willing to

00:45:45 ◼   ► put promos

00:45:45 ◼   ► which are

00:45:46 ◼   ► ads

00:45:46 ◼   ► and actual

00:45:48 ◼   ► ads

00:45:48 ◼   ► all over

00:45:49 ◼   ► their products

00:45:50 ◼   ► now

00:45:50 ◼   ► there is no

00:45:52 ◼   ► more premium

00:45:53 ◼   ► experience with

00:45:53 ◼   ► Apple products

00:45:54 ◼   ► because now

00:45:55 ◼   ► it's all full

00:45:55 ◼   ► of ads

00:45:56 ◼   ► because

00:45:56 ◼   ► what are you

00:45:57 ◼   ► gonna do

00:45:58 ◼   ► where are you

00:45:58 ◼   ► gonna go

00:45:59 ◼   ► there's

00:45:59 ◼   ► nowhere else

00:46:00 ◼   ► so they can

00:46:01 ◼   ► now make

00:46:01 ◼   ► 1% more

00:46:02 ◼   ► money from

00:46:02 ◼   ► you

00:46:02 ◼   ► old Apple

00:46:04 ◼   ► wouldn't

00:46:05 ◼   ► have done

00:46:06 ◼   ► that

00:46:06 ◼   ► you know

00:46:07 ◼   ► you don't

00:46:08 ◼   ► I don't like

00:46:08 ◼   ► to invoke

00:46:08 ◼   ► Steve Jobs

00:46:09 ◼   ► that often

00:46:09 ◼   ► I know

00:46:09 ◼   ► there were

00:46:10 ◼   ► a couple

00:46:10 ◼   ► of cases

00:46:10 ◼   ► where Steve

00:46:11 ◼   ► Jobs

00:46:11 ◼   ► floated the

00:46:11 ◼   ► idea of

00:46:12 ◼   ► putting ads

00:46:12 ◼   ► in different

00:46:12 ◼   ► places

00:46:12 ◼   ► but

00:46:13 ◼   ► under

00:46:14 ◼   ► previous

00:46:15 ◼   ► leadership

00:46:15 ◼   ► Apple

00:46:17 ◼   ► would not

00:46:17 ◼   ► have been

00:46:18 ◼   ► putting ads

00:46:18 ◼   ► in the places

00:46:19 ◼   ► they're putting

00:46:19 ◼   ► ads now

00:46:20 ◼   ► because I

00:46:21 ◼   ► think the

00:46:21 ◼   ► previous

00:46:22 ◼   ► leadership

00:46:22 ◼   ► had more

00:46:22 ◼   ► appreciation

00:46:23 ◼   ► for a

00:46:24 ◼   ► premium

00:46:24 ◼   ► user

00:46:24 ◼   ► experience

00:46:25 ◼   ► and when

00:46:26 ◼   ► you start

00:46:27 ◼   ► being managed

00:46:27 ◼   ► as you know

00:46:28 ◼   ► just bean

00:46:29 ◼   ► counter

00:46:29 ◼   ► only numbers

00:46:30 ◼   ► matter

00:46:31 ◼   ► and nothing

00:46:31 ◼   ► else matters

00:46:32 ◼   ► if this thing

00:46:33 ◼   ► can increase

00:46:34 ◼   ► numbers by

00:46:34 ◼   ► 5%

00:46:35 ◼   ► why wouldn't

00:46:35 ◼   ► we do it

00:46:36 ◼   ► obviously we

00:46:36 ◼   ► must do it

00:46:37 ◼   ► because the

00:46:37 ◼   ► numbers will

00:46:37 ◼   ► go up

00:46:38 ◼   ► that is a

00:46:39 ◼   ► pretty rapid

00:46:41 ◼   ► path to

00:46:42 ◼   ► mediocrity

00:46:42 ◼   ► and that's

00:46:44 ◼   ► never been

00:46:45 ◼   ► what has

00:46:45 ◼   ► made Apple

00:46:46 ◼   ► stand out

00:46:47 ◼   ► they have

00:46:48 ◼   ► certainly had

00:46:49 ◼   ► many mediocre

00:46:50 ◼   ► products and

00:46:51 ◼   ► services and

00:46:51 ◼   ► times in the

00:46:52 ◼   ► past no

00:46:52 ◼   ► question but

00:46:53 ◼   ► where Apple

00:46:54 ◼   ► succeed

00:46:55 ◼   ► needs is

00:46:56 ◼   ► making nice

00:46:57 ◼   ► products with

00:46:58 ◼   ► nice experiences

00:46:59 ◼   ► and ads

00:47:00 ◼   ► don't have a

00:47:01 ◼   ► place in that

00:47:01 ◼   ► and I wish

00:47:02 ◼   ► Apple's leadership

00:47:03 ◼   ► would realize

00:47:04 ◼   ► where their

00:47:04 ◼   ► own success

00:47:05 ◼   ► comes from

00:47:05 ◼   ► like you said

00:47:06 ◼   ► before like

00:47:07 ◼   ► it's not

00:47:07 ◼   ► you were saying

00:47:08 ◼   ► like have they

00:47:08 ◼   ► run out of

00:47:09 ◼   ► idea other

00:47:10 ◼   ► ways to make

00:47:10 ◼   ► money it's not

00:47:11 ◼   ► that they've

00:47:11 ◼   ► run out of

00:47:11 ◼   ► other ideas

00:47:12 ◼   ► for incremental

00:47:13 ◼   ► revenue or

00:47:14 ◼   ► other ideas

00:47:14 ◼   ► to innovate

00:47:15 ◼   ► it's that

00:47:15 ◼   ► in addition to

00:47:17 ◼   ► those ideas

00:47:18 ◼   ► these ideas

00:47:18 ◼   ► which used

00:47:19 ◼   ► as you noted

00:47:19 ◼   ► used to be

00:47:20 ◼   ► get shot

00:47:20 ◼   ► down

00:47:20 ◼   ► no longer

00:47:21 ◼   ► get shot

00:47:22 ◼   ► down and

00:47:22 ◼   ► that is the

00:47:22 ◼   ► dysfunction

00:47:23 ◼   ► in the

00:47:23 ◼   ► organization

00:47:24 ◼   ► someone in the

00:47:25 ◼   ► org is always

00:47:25 ◼   ► going to say

00:47:26 ◼   ► hey we can

00:47:27 ◼   ► make more

00:47:27 ◼   ► money if we

00:47:28 ◼   ► did this

00:47:29 ◼   ► that would

00:47:29 ◼   ► annoy users

00:47:30 ◼   ► slightly

00:47:30 ◼   ► but what are

00:47:30 ◼   ► they going to

00:47:31 ◼   ► do like

00:47:31 ◼   ► that idea

00:47:32 ◼   ► will always

00:47:33 ◼   ► exist will

00:47:33 ◼   ► always be

00:47:34 ◼   ► presented is

00:47:34 ◼   ► always compelling

00:47:35 ◼   ► it's a compelling

00:47:37 ◼   ► business case to

00:47:38 ◼   ► Apple because you

00:47:38 ◼   ► can say look

00:47:39 ◼   ► I can show you

00:47:39 ◼   ► how this will

00:47:40 ◼   ► make us more

00:47:40 ◼   ► money it will

00:47:41 ◼   ► make us more

00:47:41 ◼   ► successful in

00:47:42 ◼   ► this way and

00:47:43 ◼   ► what the what

00:47:44 ◼   ► Apple needs to

00:47:45 ◼   ► do and what

00:47:46 ◼   ► they're getting

00:47:46 ◼   ► less good at

00:47:47 ◼   ► doing is

00:47:48 ◼   ► saying yes

00:47:49 ◼   ► yes but

00:47:50 ◼   ► our brand

00:47:52 ◼   ► promises that

00:47:53 ◼   ► we don't do

00:47:53 ◼   ► crap like

00:47:54 ◼   ► that and

00:47:54 ◼   ► long term

00:47:55 ◼   ► even though

00:47:55 ◼   ► your idea

00:47:55 ◼   ► will make

00:47:56 ◼   ► a little

00:47:56 ◼   ► money now

00:47:56 ◼   ► it will

00:47:57 ◼   ► erode that

00:47:58 ◼   ► brand promise

00:47:59 ◼   ► the value

00:47:59 ◼   ► proposition

00:48:00 ◼   ► it will

00:48:00 ◼   ► in the long

00:48:01 ◼   ► run it will

00:48:02 ◼   ► make us less

00:48:02 ◼   ► money it's the

00:48:03 ◼   ► exact opposite

00:48:03 ◼   ► of the thing

00:48:04 ◼   ► that made

00:48:04 ◼   ► Apple successful

00:48:05 ◼   ► which is do

00:48:06 ◼   ► the difficult

00:48:06 ◼   ► thing that

00:48:07 ◼   ► everyone thinks

00:48:07 ◼   ► is a dumb

00:48:08 ◼   ► idea because

00:48:08 ◼   ► if you do

00:48:08 ◼   ► it long

00:48:09 ◼   ► enough or

00:48:09 ◼   ► hard enough

00:48:09 ◼   ► and it

00:48:10 ◼   ► makes users

00:48:10 ◼   ► happy you

00:48:10 ◼   ► will make

00:48:11 ◼   ► more money

00:48:11 ◼   ► than them

00:48:11 ◼   ► in the long

00:48:12 ◼   ► run and

00:48:13 ◼   ► Apple does

00:48:14 ◼   ► still fight

00:48:15 ◼   ► that they're

00:48:15 ◼   ► not saying yes

00:48:15 ◼   ► to every one

00:48:16 ◼   ► of those

00:48:16 ◼   ► ideas but

00:48:17 ◼   ► they're saying

00:48:17 ◼   ► yes to way

00:48:18 ◼   ► too many of

00:48:18 ◼   ► them in

00:48:19 ◼   ► particular saying

00:48:20 ◼   ► yes to like

00:48:20 ◼   ► their own

00:48:21 ◼   ► internal things

00:48:22 ◼   ► like what this

00:48:22 ◼   ► part of the

00:48:23 ◼   ► org says we

00:48:24 ◼   ► need to you

00:48:25 ◼   ► know do

00:48:26 ◼   ► upsells inside

00:48:27 ◼   ► the iWork

00:48:28 ◼   ► applications because

00:48:29 ◼   ► that's the only

00:48:29 ◼   ► way people will

00:48:30 ◼   ► pay for this and

00:48:30 ◼   ► we need to do

00:48:31 ◼   ► this and we

00:48:31 ◼   ► need to put

00:48:32 ◼   ► like we need

00:48:33 ◼   ► to advertise

00:48:34 ◼   ► the you know

00:48:35 ◼   ► new Apple care

00:48:35 ◼   ► plans inside

00:48:37 ◼   ► system settings

00:48:37 ◼   ► because I know

00:48:39 ◼   ► the people who

00:48:39 ◼   ► are writing

00:48:40 ◼   ► system settings

00:48:40 ◼   ► they don't care

00:48:41 ◼   ► about that but

00:48:41 ◼   ► this part of

00:48:42 ◼   ► the org cares

00:48:42 ◼   ► about selling

00:48:43 ◼   ► Apple care and

00:48:44 ◼   ► we need a way

00:48:44 ◼   ► to sell okay

00:48:45 ◼   ► hey we're all

00:48:45 ◼   ► Apple here

00:48:46 ◼   ► same team

00:48:46 ◼   ► so let's do

00:48:47 ◼   ► it and that's

00:48:47 ◼   ► what they're

00:48:47 ◼   ► saying yes to

00:48:48 ◼   ► they're saying

00:48:48 ◼   ► yes to you

00:48:50 ◼   ► know letting

00:48:51 ◼   ► themselves advertise

00:48:52 ◼   ► their own crap

00:48:52 ◼   ► everywhere which is

00:48:53 ◼   ► already terrible

00:48:54 ◼   ► and then in these

00:48:55 ◼   ► cases like search

00:48:55 ◼   ► ads and map

00:48:57 ◼   ► ads they're saying

00:48:57 ◼   ► we can get money

00:48:58 ◼   ► from third parties

00:48:59 ◼   ► here too because

00:48:59 ◼   ► we have all these

00:49:00 ◼   ► customers we have

00:49:00 ◼   ► their eyeballs

00:49:01 ◼   ► they're doing

00:49:01 ◼   ► something related

00:49:02 ◼   ► to maps they're

00:49:03 ◼   ► in the app store

00:49:03 ◼   ► searching like you

00:49:05 ◼   ► said Marco it's a

00:49:05 ◼   ► it's a win for

00:49:06 ◼   ► Apple they think

00:49:07 ◼   ► because it's like

00:49:08 ◼   ► look we annoy the

00:49:09 ◼   ► user and we suck

00:49:11 ◼   ► more money from

00:49:12 ◼   ► developers and we

00:49:12 ◼   ► annoy the developers

00:49:13 ◼   ► so everything is

00:49:15 ◼   ► worse the only

00:49:16 ◼   ► arguable possible

00:49:17 ◼   ► user benefit is

00:49:18 ◼   ► if you're searching

00:49:19 ◼   ► for an app you

00:49:20 ◼   ► get to see some

00:49:21 ◼   ► possible alternatives

00:49:22 ◼   ► to that app like

00:49:23 ◼   ► if it's a really

00:49:23 ◼   ► well-known app you

00:49:24 ◼   ► would otherwise

00:49:24 ◼   ► never find the

00:49:24 ◼   ► alternatives that is

00:49:25 ◼   ► the only benefit I

00:49:26 ◼   ► can think of for

00:49:27 ◼   ► that for the user

00:49:27 ◼   ► but mostly it's a

00:49:28 ◼   ► it's a it's a net

00:49:29 ◼   ► negative for everybody

00:49:30 ◼   ► but I was like yeah

00:49:31 ◼   ► but we make more

00:49:31 ◼   ► money so yeah that's

00:49:33 ◼   ► the problem they

00:49:33 ◼   ► keep saying yes to

00:49:34 ◼   ► that and then this

00:49:34 ◼   ► the ads and maps

00:49:35 ◼   ► like I don't even

00:49:37 ◼   ► think of all the

00:49:38 ◼   ► things they could do

00:49:38 ◼   ► this is that

00:49:40 ◼   ► egregious other than

00:49:40 ◼   ► the fact that they're

00:49:41 ◼   ► going to do a

00:49:41 ◼   ► terrible job at it

00:49:42 ◼   ► except for the

00:49:44 ◼   ► fact that as far

00:49:46 ◼   ► as I know I don't

00:49:47 ◼   ► this is is this a

00:49:48 ◼   ► rumor I think it's a

00:49:48 ◼   ► rumor I don't know if

00:49:49 ◼   ► it was announcement

00:49:49 ◼   ► or when I was

00:49:50 ◼   ► announcement announcement

00:49:51 ◼   ► from Apple but

00:49:51 ◼   ► anyway we don't know

00:49:52 ◼   ► the details but here's

00:49:53 ◼   ► the thing so you're

00:49:54 ◼   ► going to put ads and

00:49:55 ◼   ► stuff at very least

00:49:57 ◼   ► allow people to pay

00:49:59 ◼   ► money to make the

00:50:00 ◼   ► ads go away how

00:50:01 ◼   ► about the people who

00:50:02 ◼   ► are already paying

00:50:03 ◼   ► you for let's say the

00:50:04 ◼   ► Apple one bundle

00:50:05 ◼   ► because like I'm not

00:50:07 ◼   ► saying oh it's fine

00:50:08 ◼   ► Apple put ads

00:50:09 ◼   ► everywhere and just

00:50:10 ◼   ► make people pay to

00:50:10 ◼   ► get rid of them

00:50:11 ◼   ► but if we have to

00:50:12 ◼   ► live in this world

00:50:12 ◼   ► if we're gonna have

00:50:13 ◼   ► these ads forced on

00:50:14 ◼   ► us like to Casey's

00:50:15 ◼   ► point if I'm already

00:50:16 ◼   ► paying you like the

00:50:17 ◼   ► maximum amount a

00:50:18 ◼   ► person can pay you

00:50:19 ◼   ► like I buy your most

00:50:20 ◼   ► expensive Apple one

00:50:21 ◼   ► bundle that you want

00:50:22 ◼   ► me to get I buy all

00:50:23 ◼   ► your products or

00:50:23 ◼   ► whatever is there no

00:50:25 ◼   ► way that me paying

00:50:27 ◼   ► money will make ads

00:50:28 ◼   ► go away anyway I

00:50:29 ◼   ► would pay to get rid

00:50:30 ◼   ► of search ads in the

00:50:31 ◼   ► app store if I could I

00:50:32 ◼   ► would certainly pay to

00:50:33 ◼   ► get rid of ads in

00:50:34 ◼   ► Apple Maps even though I

00:50:34 ◼   ► mostly use Google Maps

00:50:35 ◼   ► like and I'm not

00:50:37 ◼   ► saying like obviously

00:50:38 ◼   ► the number of people

00:50:39 ◼   ► who are gonna pay to

00:50:39 ◼   ► make ads go away is

00:50:40 ◼   ► tiny like we know

00:50:41 ◼   ► we have we have a

00:50:42 ◼   ► podcast where people

00:50:43 ◼   ► pay to make the ads

00:50:43 ◼   ► go away most people

00:50:45 ◼   ► don't like it but we

00:50:45 ◼   ► get that but like just

00:50:48 ◼   ► let let that's it's

00:50:49 ◼   ► such an easy out for

00:50:50 ◼   ► them to continue to be

00:50:51 ◼   ► crappy like again I'm

00:50:52 ◼   ► not saying this is the

00:50:53 ◼   ► solution but hey Apple

00:50:54 ◼   ► if you want to continue

00:50:55 ◼   ► to erode your your

00:50:56 ◼   ► own value you would

00:50:58 ◼   ► just you would silence

00:51:00 ◼   ► more of Casey's cursing

00:51:01 ◼   ► if you just at least

00:51:02 ◼   ► allowed allowed the

00:51:04 ◼   ► relative handful of

00:51:05 ◼   ► people who are willing

00:51:06 ◼   ► to pay not to see ads

00:51:07 ◼   ► to let them do that

00:51:08 ◼   ► they would grumble

00:51:09 ◼   ► about it and they

00:51:09 ◼   ► would be pissed but it

00:51:10 ◼   ► would make them slightly

00:51:12 ◼   ► more quiet than the

00:51:13 ◼   ► current case of just

00:51:14 ◼   ► like we don't care how

00:51:14 ◼   ► much money you give us

00:51:15 ◼   ► there's no escape from

00:51:16 ◼   ► these ads yep couldn't

00:51:18 ◼   ► agree more it's just

00:51:20 ◼   ► this is the sort of

00:51:21 ◼   ► thing now I'm showing a

00:51:23 ◼   ► lot of biases and I'm

00:51:24 ◼   ► bringing a lot of my

00:51:25 ◼   ► own priors as Merlin

00:51:26 ◼   ► would say to the table

00:51:27 ◼   ► but I've always found

00:51:29 ◼   ► it frustrating that it's

00:51:33 ◼   ► in my mind I filed it

00:51:35 ◼   ► as a West Coast thing

00:51:36 ◼   ► that there are no

00:51:37 ◼   ► decisions made there's

00:51:38 ◼   ► only A-B testing I know

00:51:40 ◼   ► I'm being hyperbolic and

00:51:41 ◼   ► I know it's not quite

00:51:42 ◼   ► that simple but I feel

00:51:43 ◼   ► like everything is A-B

00:51:44 ◼   ► tested and everything is

00:51:46 ◼   ► about numbers and at

00:51:47 ◼   ► some point you have to

00:51:49 ◼   ► understand that there is

00:51:51 ◼   ► there are things that are

00:51:52 ◼   ► unmeasurable and there

00:51:54 ◼   ► are things that are just

00:51:55 ◼   ► a vibe and the vibe that

00:51:57 ◼   ► I get from Apple these

00:51:59 ◼   ► days and I don't think

00:52:00 ◼   ► I'm alone is that oh

00:52:02 ◼   ► they're just as shitty as

00:52:04 ◼   ► everyone else except just

00:52:06 ◼   ► a teeny bit less so if

00:52:08 ◼   ► Windows is an 11 Apple is

00:52:10 ◼   ► an 8 or a 9 but that's

00:52:12 ◼   ► still shittier than it

00:52:14 ◼   ► needs to be and I'm sorry

00:52:15 ◼   ► that I don't have more

00:52:16 ◼   ► grown-up language or maybe

00:52:17 ◼   ► less grown-up language to

00:52:19 ◼   ► express my feelings but I'm

00:52:20 ◼   ► so frustrated that this is

00:52:25 ◼   ► what this is and there's

00:52:27 ◼   ► nowhere else to go I think

00:52:28 ◼   ► that's the other problem

00:52:29 ◼   ► like yes I suppose I

00:52:30 ◼   ► could make this the year

00:52:31 ◼   ► of Linux on the desktop for

00:52:32 ◼   ► me but I don't want to do

00:52:33 ◼   ► that nobody really wants to

00:52:34 ◼   ► do that please don't

00:52:35 ◼   ► redeem me even NPM throws

00:52:36 ◼   ► ads at you now they're

00:52:37 ◼   ► not really ads but like

00:52:38 ◼   ► hey these projects need

00:52:39 ◼   ► funding because they've

00:52:41 ◼   ► got you at the prompt and

00:52:42 ◼   ► how else are you going to

00:52:43 ◼   ► discover that the software

00:52:44 ◼   ► you're that you've been

00:52:45 ◼   ► using for free forever

00:52:45 ◼   ► needs funding like I

00:52:47 ◼   ► think I don't begrudge

00:52:48 ◼   ► NPM that but I'm just

00:52:49 ◼   ► saying like everybody that

00:52:50 ◼   ► the idea has always

00:52:52 ◼   ► existed which is right

00:52:53 ◼   ► where the person's using

00:52:54 ◼   ► your software can we put

00:52:56 ◼   ► ads there someone will

00:52:58 ◼   ► always have that idea

00:52:59 ◼   ► the idea is not new what

00:53:01 ◼   ► is the difference now is

00:53:02 ◼   ► people who would

00:53:03 ◼   ► formally say of course I'm

00:53:04 ◼   ► not in my command line

00:53:05 ◼   ► Unix utility I'm going to

00:53:07 ◼   ► put an ad like I

00:53:08 ◼   ► understand open source

00:53:09 ◼   ► needs funding but this is

00:53:10 ◼   ► not the way to do it but

00:53:11 ◼   ► eventually the generation

00:53:13 ◼   ► that grew up in the

00:53:14 ◼   ► current environment gets

00:53:15 ◼   ► to control open source

00:53:16 ◼   ► projects and said oh yeah

00:53:17 ◼   ► totally we should put that

00:53:18 ◼   ► into NBM and so now it's

00:53:19 ◼   ► there yeah and I think

00:53:20 ◼   ► like what what irritates me

00:53:22 ◼   ► about Apple doing it and

00:53:24 ◼   ► this is granted this is

00:53:25 ◼   ► less about maps now now I'm

00:53:26 ◼   ► talking about the platform

00:53:27 ◼   ► is like if inside of an

00:53:30 ◼   ► app like maps they put

00:53:32 ◼   ► ads okay well we can use

00:53:35 ◼   ► different apps and yeah I

00:53:36 ◼   ► mean the other ones have

00:53:38 ◼   ► ads too but at least they're

00:53:40 ◼   ► better so you know whatever

00:53:42 ◼   ► there's different options for

00:53:44 ◼   ► mapping apps you can make

00:53:45 ◼   ► your own mapping app if you

00:53:46 ◼   ► really want to nobody can

00:53:48 ◼   ► really anyway but you know

00:53:50 ◼   ► you know what I mean but when

00:53:52 ◼   ► the system has ads in places

00:53:55 ◼   ► that are required to interact

00:53:57 ◼   ► with or privileged things like

00:54:00 ◼   ► the settings app having promos

00:54:02 ◼   ► for all of Apple's upsells and

00:54:04 ◼   ► crap the app store having ads

00:54:07 ◼   ► when you are looking to buy to

00:54:08 ◼   ► get software in the only way you

00:54:09 ◼   ► can get software on your iOS