00:00:00 ◼ ► All right, let me start by saying I'm a little congested, nasally, whatever. It's not because Marco screwed up the editor or anything like that. I'm just ever so slightly under the weather. It's fine. However, I will redeem myself by telling you to, and all of you who are listening, I have found the best website on the internet.
00:00:21 ◼ ► I think of all the various internet clever things, what an amazing winner that site was.
00:00:33 ◼ ► And even if it could work another time, it wouldn't be cool if somebody did it again. It only works once. It only works for the first person to try it. And what a fun, weird idea that was.
00:00:43 ◼ ► Yeah, so for those that aren't familiar, what this was, and jump in and interrupt me when you're ready, but it was like each pixel or something like that was a dollar, and there were a million pixels on the homepage.
00:00:53 ◼ ► So you could buy any number of pixels at a dollar apiece, and over the entire million pixels on the homepage, that's a million bucks. And it's still at milliondollarhomepage.com.
00:01:15 ◼ ► Uh-huh. I found the best website on the internet. Before we started recording, I asked both the boys what model year their cars were. And I asked because I was looking at...
00:01:30 ◼ ► What is the URL? Autocatalogarchive.com. So if you look in the chat, and I'll put it in the show notes, there, John, is the official brochure for the 2014 Honda Accord.
00:01:41 ◼ ► And because it's my favorite of all of Marco's cars, the 2013, is that what we said? 2013 BMW M5. Unfortunately, the M5 catalog is the international one, whereas the Accord catalog, or brochure, if you will, is the American one.
00:01:57 ◼ ► All right. Well, the problem with this website, even though it is the best website on the internet, it is also the slowest website on the internet. Autocatalogarchive.com. It is incredible. And so you can look up all different, like, all the different marks. Is it Marquis? Marks? How do you pronounce it?
00:02:26 ◼ ► That's true. But anyways, very, very good stuff. It is impossibly slow and impossibly disorganized. And yet, this is my new favorite website on the internet. Incredibly good stuff.
00:02:40 ◼ ► All right. We have a lot to do. We are going to do the unthinkable that we do every time there's an Apple event and issue follow up. And we're going to jump straight into topics. John, how are we going to cover this? It's been a busy week.
00:02:51 ◼ ► I can't remember a time when we've had this many products released in this short a period of time. I know it wasn't just one event. It was three days worth of press releases, yada, yada. And I know, like, what they announced was now there's no new product category. They're not transitioning chip architectures. Like, significance-wise, it's not like it's the, you know, iPad or the Vision Pro or the Apple Watch or something.
00:03:10 ◼ ► But boy, is it a lot of products in a short period of time. And the only real, like, hitch to the schedules that the M5 Pro and Max laptops essentially got delayed until spring when they normally would have been back then. But still, even not even not accounting for those, this is a lot of products in a short period of time. So that's why even though this is not a quote unquote Apple event, even though there was an Apple experience, no follow up. And this is just a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff to cover, a lot of goodies all at one time.
00:03:42 ◼ ► Did not finish, yeah, of all the rumored items, because obviously I have, like, the bullet points for all these items and based on the rumors, that was the only one that didn't show up, which is also rare. Normally, like, there's rumors of, like, four or five things. But, like, we know that the top three are the ones that are definitely going to be there and then maybe a fourth or something. And usually the fourth doesn't show up. This time, they all showed up except for the new, presumably A18-powered plain old iPad. But that's a boring product anyway, so nobody cares.
00:04:11 ◼ ► Yeah, it's just, you know, they stuck an M4 on the iPad Air. It's always interesting to see how they save money on these when they put them in a lesser product. So it's got an M4, but it's, you know, it's binned, as they say, in a particular way. So you can get it with an eight-core CPU, which is three P cores and five E cores. And yes, we're going to talk about those later.
00:04:31 ◼ ► But a full M4 is four P cores and six E cores. So it's down one P and it's down one E to save money. The GPU is missing a core. It's nine core instead of 10. And the RAM is 12 gigs, which is an increase over the iPad Air, which only had eight gigs. So that's nice.
00:04:50 ◼ ► Um, you get the N1 and the C1X, which is really nice. Apple's latest chips, you know, for Wi-Fi and stuff. So you get a Wi-Fi 7, you get Bluetooth 6. That's cool. Uh, same size as the iPad Air M3, but a little bit heavier. Uh, and storage is no change. You can go from 128 up to a terabyte. Same colors. Uh, environmental impact statements. I've been, I diffed them for this particular thing. Cause like they say the same stuff all the time, but I'm like, well, what, what new stuff are you doing in the environment? Or have there been any regressions?
00:05:17 ◼ ► So just like the iPad Air M3 is 30% recycled content, a hundred percent recycled aluminum in the enclosure and recycled cobalt in the battery. And the new thing that they've been touting for all their products, and you'll hear it for each one, uh, is manufactured with X percent renewable energy. And the iPad Air M4 is 40% renewable energy, which is nice, I guess. I mean, in the past they would say, we try to use renewable energy, but now they're putting a number on it. So it shows that they're tracking it. So good job, Apple keep, uh, ratcheting that stuff up. Um, and the pricing is unchanged.
00:05:46 ◼ ► And not particularly interesting. Comes in 11 and 13 inch cellular is 150 extra bucks. Pre-order March 4th, available March 12th. You know, like it's, it's a, not an exciting product, but as we always say, every time there's a speed bump, uh, speed bumps are not particularly exciting, but it's so much better than not having them. By all means, speed bump every product. If you don't have a big redesign, just put new stuff in it. And this is, this is, I think is an ideal speed bump.
00:06:09 ◼ ► The M number went up from three to four. It got the N1 and the C1X. So it's got the latest modem chip and the latest wifi chip, the latest wifi standard, the latest Bluetooth standard in Apple's lines, if not in the entire world, right? Thumbs up. Good speed bump.
00:06:23 ◼ ► Yeah. I think the, the iPad air, um, kind of like the, the like base M chip 14 inch MacBook pro, which I have, but it's one of those, it's one of those items that like, it's a, it's a mid range product that we, you know, we talk about maybe once a year when they update it.
00:06:43 ◼ ► And we never think about it again. We never talk about it again, but people out there buy it and it's fine. And it's not like, it isn't the most exciting model in any direction in particular. It's like right down the middle and it's fine. And a lot of people out there buy it and are happy with it. You know, just like me and my 14 inch MacBook pro. Like a lot of people are perfectly fine with this model. It doesn't have the best of everything. It doesn't have the worst or the best of anything. It doesn't have the worst of anything.
00:07:08 ◼ ► The only thing that, that I, I wish they would break down one barrier on the low end iPads. It's face ID. Like I recently, I, I got a recent iPad mini for some testing and it's touch ID of course, cause all iPad minis to date have been touch ID. Um, and it is so it's brutal. Like once you're used to face ID on the iPad pro and the iPad pro is so expensive and has been pushed so high up the line.
00:07:38 ◼ ► Face ID. I think should be table stakes for all iPhones and iPads. And it is for most of them except mid range and low end iPads now. And I think that's the one, the one thing that they push you to pro for that. I wish they wouldn't. Yeah. We have a way for the next redesign, right? Cause this is not really redesigned. This is just an internal bump, but, uh, yeah, but maybe like I, you know, we'll see, like there's rumors of, of the next iPad mini going a little bit higher end with OLED. You know, we'll see like maybe as
00:08:11 ◼ ► And as they get the smaller face ID things, like it might take a while, I think, because there's rumors of smaller face ID stuff in the upcoming iPhones, but that smaller face ID stuff is probably going to be exclusive to the high end iPhones for a while.
00:08:23 ◼ ► Maybe talk about being stingy about face ID. When are we getting a Mac with it? So get in line, I guess, iPad.
00:08:29 ◼ ► But at least like on, on the Mac and on the iPhone, I feel like, you know, on an iPhone, touch ID was not punitive because the way you hold the phone, your thumb is already there. And you were already using the home button on those models constantly. So your thumb is already there. On the Mac, the touch ID button is on the keyboard, right where your hands already are. It's really easy to go hit it all the time.
00:08:53 ◼ ► On the iPad, though, in my experience so far using this, this iPad mini, touch ID is a pain in the butt because you're never already on it. You always have to like reach around for it. And it is very disruptive to the experience and very, it feels very clunky and punitive because like when, when they went from home button iPads, well, again, your hand was already there all the time.
00:09:18 ◼ ► When they went from the home button iPad to touch ID iPads, it was not a step forward. It was, it was just like, we're going to take this thing that you need to do a lot and we're going to make it worse because on the high end model, we made it better with face ID. On these low end models, we don't want to do that. So I, I, I wish they would change that. That's the one thing about the, the non pro iPads that feels punitive. And I'm every time there's an update to the air or the mini or the base model, I hope for that. But so far they have to deliver that. We'll see.
00:09:48 ◼ ► Next up, we have the iPhone 17 E, the 17 E. And, uh, this definitely is fulfilling the promise of the 16 E, uh, which is that it would get updated every year, which is exciting. And they have fixed the one major complaint that most of us had from the 16 E, which is that it actually has MagSafe this year, which is very exciting.
00:10:08 ◼ ► That was the one big fumble in the 16 E. I couldn't believe they did it. They corrected it immediately. So I'm excited that the 17 E exists. Uh, and I'm excited that it has MagSafe because that really made it went from a product that I felt like I couldn't recommend people because I just felt like, like you're spending so much money for this phone. It's not that cheap. Get one with MagSafe.
00:10:26 ◼ ► It opens up this whole world of peripherals and sticking it to magnetic things on your dashboard and all sorts of other, you know, pops and magnetic pop sockets and, uh, holders for cards and all sorts of other great stuff. And it just seemed a shame they didn't have it and they fixed it. So good job, Apple.
00:10:40 ◼ ► Yeah. The 17 E is, is one of these models that like we are talking about it now. We will probably never talk about it again, but it serves an important role in the lineup. And they have done seemingly by all accounts, a pretty good job this time. You know, the 16 E seemed pretty good for what it was, but we all said, except MagSafe. Yeah. Now they've fixed that. This seems like, you know, a nice model that those of us like who tend to buy the higher end phones, we'll see it in the store.
00:11:08 ◼ ► We'll pick it up and be like, Ooh, this is really small and light and simple. This is kind of fun. No camera bump kind of. Right. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. Like we won't be the ones buying it, but a lot of people will. That being said, if you are in this budget category, if you can go $200 more to go from the 17 E to the base model 17, you do get a lot of upgrades for that. So it is kind of worth considering, especially in the area of the screen. Um, you get, you get promotion, you get always on, which like that, that does dramatically change how people use a phone.
00:11:38 ◼ ► So if the screen is important to you, that might be worth it. But otherwise, if you just want the absolute cheapest iPhone of like a new generation, this is a really solid option. And I do like that. They're updating it every year. Seemingly now, um, that's going to be really nice for them. And for people who buy these phones.
00:11:55 ◼ ► Yeah. And we would be talking about it. It's like, and we won't talk about it again. You know why we would talk about it again? If they didn't update it for like three years, because they'd be like, when are they ever going to update the, like, remember the SE would just sit there forever. And we would talk about it because you say, what the hell? Like, are you, are you making this phone or you're not? And you know, this, I feel like putting the number in it and they fulfilled the promise so far of like, we will update this phone. We will put better stuff in it. We will correct our mistakes quickly instead of like, Oh, we made an SE, but the feature set isn't quite right. I'll see you in three years when we try to fix it. Um, so that's great. Uh, it does have an A19 in it with no cores disabled.
00:12:25 ◼ ► Which is cool. Um, the GPU is four core instead of six, which would be full. So they're, they're saving a lot on the GPUs there. It gets the C1X modem, but it does not get the N1, which is interesting. Uh, it just has wifi six, not even six E and it has Bluetooth 5.3. Um, they do mention stuff about in their comparison list of features like next generation portness portraits with focus and depth control. I think that's just a software change because it's as compared to the 16E, which said portrait mode with depth control, but this says next generation
00:12:55 ◼ ► portraits, which I think it's a software thing, but I'm not entirely sure. It might be a 19 powered with like the image processor. Um, speaking of screens, this does have the ceramic shield to front, uh, durability thing, which does, I think make a difference in scratching. So it's good that it gets that even if the screen itself is not much better. Um, it charges faster than the 16E. They say 50% in around 30 minutes. Um, there's no more 128 gig option. It starts at 256. So thank goodness for that. Uh, it's about the same. It is exactly the same size.
00:13:25 ◼ ► 16E and weighs two grams more, uh, comes in black and white and a new color, soft pink, which, you know, black and white are boring, but straight up the middle. It's nice that it comes in one color that is not black and white. I hope they rotate that color. Cause the pink looks fine. It looks good, but maybe you do a blue next year or a red or a green. That's again, with the, with the lowest end, you know, bargain basement phone, you're not going to get that many options, but it's good to see one more, um, environmental stuff, 30% recycled content, 85% recycled aluminum, 100% recycled cobalt in the battery.
00:13:55 ◼ ► A new thing for this year, 55% renewable energy, um, manufactured with 55% renewable electricity on it, not renewable energy. That's across their whole supply chain. So they say, uh, price is 599 for 256, which was the same price as the 16E 128.
00:14:09 ◼ ► So they got rid of the 128, but actually are selling the 256, the same price. They sold the 128, which is nice. Cause sometimes they get rid of the low end config, but they just sell the higher end config at the higher price. Uh, and then the 512 gig is a hundred dollars less than the 512 gig 16E was.
00:14:25 ◼ ► Again, pre-order March 4th available, available March 11th. Uh, pretty good update to the e-phone.
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00:16:28 ◼ ► this is the point in this is the point in which I, as the kids say, crash out a little bit. New displays. And actually, I think all three of us will be crashing out for different reasons, come to think of it. But Apple has released two new displays. They have the studio display, which is basically the same as the one that I'm looking at right now. It has a better center stage camera, quote, now with improved image quality and support for desk view. Cool.
00:16:54 ◼ ► Also, apparently better audio, particularly 30% deeper bass. It is moved up to Thunderbolt 5. So that can be up to 120 gigabits per second, including one upstream Thunderbolt 5 port for the host with 96 watt charging for that host.
00:17:09 ◼ ► And then one downstream Thunderbolt 5 port for connecting high speed accessories or, fascinatingly, daisy chaining additional displays. Very cool stuff. Then there's also two USB-C ports. And we'll be talking more about the distinction between USB-C and Thunderbolt ports later.
00:17:25 ◼ ► The SoC in this is the A19, which is different than the A13. And we'll be talking about the A19 later. It is still $1,600 with standard glass. It's $2,000 when you get the height adjustable stand or $1,900 with nanotexture, which that's a $300 Delta, and thus $2,300 with a height adjustable stand and nanotexture.
00:17:49 ◼ ► $400 for that height adjustable stand is really hurting. Yeah, this is, uh, we had a good throwback, uh, snarky, uh, toot from Jack Wellborn that used our, uh, uh, uh, bluish new banner on an angle. It used to actually be the logo for the show. It was the fav icon for ATP.fm website at a long time.
00:18:05 ◼ ► Early on in the, in ATP, we all attended a WWDC where they updated the Mac Pro with a Mac Pro that they said was new, but it wasn't really new. They, I forget what they did to it. I didn't even think it was a speed bump.
00:18:24 ◼ ► Yeah, here's a new Mac Pro. Like, that's not a new Mac Pro. Well, this, uh, the snark is less, uh, I think, less powerful now that we know that it comes with the A19, because it's not literally the same.
00:18:35 ◼ ► They actually changed the hardware. They didn't change it a lot, but they did change the hardware.
00:18:40 ◼ ► They didn't change the screen part of the hardware, and when you're talking about displays, the screen part of the hardware is a really important part.
00:18:47 ◼ ► Now, I'm not complaining, like, by all means, update the Thunderbolt 5, put an AA19 in it for whatever that does, right? That's good.
00:18:54 ◼ ► Daisy chaining is a cool feature, but the bottom line is this is, like, exactly the same specs as the old studio display, which I believe was from 2022.
00:19:02 ◼ ► It's an old display. It's 600 nits. It's 60 hertz. It's exactly the same resolution. It's exactly the same size.
00:19:09 ◼ ► It is exactly the same price, which is insane, because the price did not make any sense.
00:19:24 ◼ ► Those numbers do not make sense for these specs, and they didn't change the screen specs, the thing you look at with your eyeball, so it's an extremely frustrating product.
00:19:33 ◼ ► Now, I think they should still make this product, and I'm sad that the price hasn't changed, and good luck for them selling it in an increasingly competitive market,
00:19:41 ◼ ► where there are many, many options with similar or better specs for way less money, even if they come in cases that don't quite look as nice.
00:19:48 ◼ ► But this product, like, if they had changed the price, I would have been fine with this.
00:20:04 ◼ ► It has an A19S Thunderbolt 5, but, like, not changing the screen is just very upsetting to me.
00:20:09 ◼ ► So this, you know, I continue to not be enthusiastic about the base model studio display.
00:20:21 ◼ ► Like, who, because it seems like if you want a nice monitor that is not the best monitor you can get,
00:20:32 ◼ ► I mean, I guess we still often have, like, you know, lack of integration with Apple's features.
00:20:40 ◼ ► But it's like, but here's, but the price, I just feel like you can't keep the same price without changing the screen part of the monitor.
00:20:50 ◼ ► Like, that's their, I feel like they very often travel with their displays in a Mac Pro-like trajectory where they make bad product decisions and say,
00:20:59 ◼ ► Like, you're not, like, it's not like, as we'll see in a second, it's not like there aren't ways to continue charging ridiculous margins on monitors.
00:21:14 ◼ ► But, like, someone was saying, it's just such a shame that Apple does not make any basic monitors.
00:21:18 ◼ ► As we'll see when we discuss later products, Apple is getting better at making just the basic version of a lot of its products.
00:21:54 ◼ ► About 10 years ago, that panel in the late 2015 27-inch Retina iMac was a 27-inch, 5K, P3, wide color, 500-knit panel, 10 and a half years ago.
00:22:23 ◼ ► So, yeah, it just tells you, like, this is not cutting-edge technology going into this panel.
00:22:33 ◼ ► But, like, okay, at this incredibly premium price point, what you are getting is a very, very, very similar panel and monitor and general image quality and specs to the 10 and a half year old iMac panel.
00:22:51 ◼ ► I think it's a little weird to not be pushing this a little further or at least to not be lowering the price.
00:23:00 ◼ ► Like, if they had made this the basic panel and lowered it to $9.99 or something like that, we'd all been singing its praises.
00:23:06 ◼ ► Like, finally, if you just want a basic monitor, you have a Mac laptop, you want to get an Apple monitor to match it, you don't care about fancy specs, this is the one for you.
00:23:21 ◼ ► I think, generally speaking, I'm not actually that disappointed with this when you ignore the price tag.
00:23:27 ◼ ► But I concur with both of you, particularly, John, that once you look at the price tag, it's like, come on.
00:23:46 ◼ ► But then, it's okay, because you two have a positively ancient monitor sitting in front of you, and there's a new version, and it's better than ever-ish.
00:24:08 ◼ ► Apple has released a new monitor that is an expensive desktop monitor with XDR in the name,
00:24:14 ◼ ► but it is not a replacement for the Pro Display XDR, because the Pro Display XDR is a 6K 30-inch, 32-inch monitor.
00:24:42 ◼ ► It's kind of, it's weird, because now that there's so many more third-party 6K monitors, like, Apple was kind of first to the party with, like, a big fancy 6K monitor, and eventually third parties started releasing them, too.
00:24:55 ◼ ► It's very sad, like, you know, Apple has gone in and out of making very large monitors over their history, and they've always been really good.
00:25:03 ◼ ► And, like, when there's a span where Apple's not making the biggest monitor size, everyone's kind of like, oh, I guess I'll get the third-party one.
00:25:12 ◼ ► What they did release with this, you know, XDR 27-inch looks pretty good for a 27-inch monitor.
00:25:30 ◼ ► It's like, that's the whole thing with monitor sizes, like, in general, the trend across the entire industry, including Apple's product lines, to be honest, has mostly been upward.
00:25:38 ◼ ► Like, Apple did make the 30-inch non-retina cinema display, and then there was a while in the wilderness where they didn't make anything that big again, but then eventually they came back with a 32.
00:25:50 ◼ ► Like, I think they said something to the effect of the studio display XDR replaces the pro display XDR.
00:25:58 ◼ ► So it's not like, oh, we're just surmising this because they stopped selling the pro display XDR, which they have.
00:26:07 ◼ ► So if you read that, you're like, oh, well, that's a clear signal that they're not going to come out with the rumored pro display XDR successor.
00:26:15 ◼ ► I would mostly agree that that is, like, if I had to put money on something, that's what I would put it on.
00:26:19 ◼ ► But if Apple was going to come out with a pro display XDR successor in a year or a WWC in the summer, they would say the exact same damn thing.
00:26:43 ◼ ► They're never going to say, like, oh, don't save your money because we might introduce a new bigger one.
00:27:05 ◼ ► But, like, as we'll get to in a second with the specs on this, the pro display XDR is starting to become the, like, oh, I don't care about image quality.
00:27:12 ◼ ► I just want a lot of pixels, you know, because as the as the image quality improves across the entire industry, the pro display XDR specs look less impressive.
00:27:21 ◼ ► But the number of pixels you get stays just as impressive because there's a lot of them and the screen is big.
00:27:28 ◼ ► I would not want to replace it with one of these, despite the fact that it has better picture quality in a lot of ways.
00:28:11 ◼ ► you do not want to, well, maybe Marco does, but most people don't want to blind themselves,
00:28:28 ◼ ► And most importantly, I would argue, is that this is Apple's first entry, as far as I'm
00:28:46 ◼ ► But no, apparently, 120-hertz refresh rate and adaptive sync, which allows it to vary the
00:29:29 ◼ ► But the color reproduction, it has Adobe RGB color gamut support in addition to P3 wide
00:29:47 ◼ ► If you look at the little triangles on the color area, they're not quite the same, but they're
00:29:58 ◼ ► whatever, I don't remember where I read this, but they leaned into somewhere that it has
00:30:03 ◼ ► DICOM medical imaging presets and the medical imaging calibrator to enable the use in diagnostic
00:30:11 ◼ ► The medical imaging calibrator on macOS is pending FDA clearance, but is expected to be
00:30:18 ◼ ► So that's something that's different, and I don't recall having ever seen before an Apple
00:30:25 ◼ ► It is well calibrated, and they're just trying to get a certification that allows it to be
00:30:28 ◼ ► used in this particular way, because who else is going to buy this monitor at the prices
00:30:39 ◼ ► have, a six-speaker system with force-canceling woofers, and wow, I don't think I realized that.
00:31:12 ◼ ► One is for the host, which allows up to 140-watt charging up from 96 on the non-XDR version.
00:31:20 ◼ ► And then, again, the other one is for downstream with additional daisy-chaining possible.
00:31:25 ◼ ► They distinguish the ports by putting like a dot, like a little bullet, next to the one
00:31:29 ◼ ► that is the charging port, essentially, and the other one is the daisy-chained, like the
00:31:35 ◼ ► So, I mean, there's four ports in the back, so two have lightning bolts, or thunderbolts,
00:31:45 ◼ ► The one that has a lightning bolt and also a dot, that is the charging upstream one, and
00:32:00 ◼ ► Yeah, and by the way, they differentiated that as well, because remember, the other one has
00:32:06 ◼ ► I'm not entirely sure why it needs the A19 Pro, maybe to handle the dynamic backlighting
00:32:11 ◼ ► stuff, because it's the same number of pixels, same, you know, everything, but maybe it's
00:32:18 ◼ ► And then there was a big question from me about, what is the story with regard to Mac support?
00:32:27 ◼ ► So, I think we had talked about, at some point in the past, well, is there enough bandwidth
00:32:44 ◼ ► But there are, like, as you're about to read, the compatibility specs for this are not entirely
00:32:55 ◼ ► I was nervous that my lowly M3 Macs wouldn't be supported, because it's only Thunderbolt 4,
00:33:01 ◼ ► And I had assumed, initially, that, oh, you're going to need Thunderbolt 5 to support 120 hertz.
00:33:10 ◼ ► Studio Display XDR is compatible with the following Mac models with Apple Silicon, sorry, John,
00:33:19 ◼ ► Sorry, anyone who doesn't want to update to Tahoe, this monitor requires Tahoe, presumably
00:33:25 ◼ ► But that's a software choice by Apple, and only supporting Apple Silicon is probably hardware
00:33:31 ◼ ► based, because I imagine the Intel ones might not be able to handle the adaptive sync stuff
00:33:49 ◼ ► So, basically, it's MacBook Pros with asterisks 2020 or later, MacBook Airs 2023, or I'm sorry,
00:34:10 ◼ ► Mac models with M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra, M2, and M3 support the Studio Display XDR at up to 60 Hz.
00:34:32 ◼ ► Yeah, it's confusing, but, like, do read the things, because you don't want to spend the money with this monitor and only be able to drive it at 60 Hz.
00:34:38 ◼ ► Like, if you have, like, an M1 Ultra and you're, like, this really fancy computer that you bought, you know, a Mac Studio M1 Ultra ages ago, you're like, I'm going to get this fancy new monitor, and I'm going to get 120 Hz.
00:34:51 ◼ ► Yeah, so, with the environment, 100% recycled aluminum, standard glass display contains 80% recycled glass, 100% fiber-based box has been extensively redesigned for collapsibility, allowing it to be broken down into smaller pieces that will fit in most household recycling bins.
00:35:29 ◼ ► The pricing, it replaces the Pro Display XDR, and thank God it doesn't cost what the Pro Display XDR did, but it costs a lot.
00:35:59 ◼ ► If you decide to opt for the Visa mount, which is what I would do because I have, you know, my own stands, you save nothing.
00:36:07 ◼ ► It's like when you get, like, an automatic or a stick shift, and they're both no-cost options.
00:36:13 ◼ ► But that's, yes, if you can get a stand or you can get no stand, and there is no savings for that.
00:36:21 ◼ ► First of all, I think it is somewhat unconscionable to have this price and not have, like, an iPhone quality, like, good back camera as the camera.
00:36:29 ◼ ► Because, as far as I can tell, it has the same camera as the studio display, which, granted, is supposedly improved, but it's still 12 megapixel, whatever.
00:36:36 ◼ ► But, like, a $3,000 monitor, I believe there should be room in the margins to put in, like, a good camera from an iPhone, not a really gruddy one.
00:36:48 ◼ ► Like, they're really into center stage because they're not going to have a little motor moving the camera, so they want a wide-angle one.
00:36:52 ◼ ► Like, I don't know what the issues involved are, but it just seems like a little bit of a shame that the camera isn't significantly better.
00:37:02 ◼ ► And the price, although it is somewhat offensive, this is the best big monitor you can buy from Apple, and it is a very good big monitor by the standards of the entire industry.
00:37:15 ◼ ► You can get other monitors with the similar specs for less money, but it's not as if there are other monitors out there that are a million times better than this.
00:37:23 ◼ ► Like, the specs of this, 1,000-nits sustain, 2,000-nits peak, 2,000-nits dimming zones.
00:37:39 ◼ ► In the world of Apple monitors, we call that a win because you're paying the premium, but you're getting a premium monitor that looks really good and has modern specs.
00:37:48 ◼ ► Like, again, 120 hertz, there are ones with higher rates than that, but this is not a gaming monitor.
00:37:52 ◼ ► Like, over 120 hertz is kind of wasted on you scrolling your windows for most of the times.
00:37:57 ◼ ► You're not playing a video game where you want 144 or whatever, or like, you know, 340 or whatever.
00:38:03 ◼ ► So, like, for its purposes, as a color-accurate, high-quality, well-made, Mac-native monitor, the features of this are good, and I give a thumbs up.
00:38:16 ◼ ► It's the highest of the high-end, and I say again, it is still less egregious than the XDR was.
00:38:21 ◼ ► And certainly less egregious than the XDR was two days ago, when it was still for sale with the same specs from, like, six years ago.
00:38:31 ◼ ► Like, it needed to either be price-reduced, which is not a thing that Apple's super into, or discontinued.
00:38:40 ◼ ► Like, bring it back at the same price, like, a higher-end monitor that is essentially like this, but XDR-sized, and just do it at XDR price.
00:38:58 ◼ ► So, I really hope they do that someday, but Apple's statements is them trying to say, we're not going to do that, just buy this monitor.
00:39:07 ◼ ► I don't think I have any justifiable reason for it, but I kind of want it really badly.
00:39:11 ◼ ► I think you would enjoy it, because you, you are a 5K monitor enjoyer, and this is a better 5K monitor than all your other monitors.
00:39:17 ◼ ► But it's just, it's probably too much money for somebody who's already got three perfectly serviceable 5K monitors.
00:39:28 ◼ ► In, in two years, the specs on this will still be pretty good, because this is, again, and not in the gaming realm, 120 hertz and these brightness figures are going to be competitive for several years in the realm of somebody who's looking at windows on their, you know, computer screen and pictures that they take.
00:39:46 ◼ ► Like, outside of the gaming realm, there's not this big brace to, to crank these specs up.
00:39:51 ◼ ► The brightness is going to continue to increase, and it's going to fall behind the competition, probably, but it's going to be competitive for several years.
00:40:01 ◼ ► You can wait two or three years, and it will still be a good monitor in two or three years, and it'll be the same price.
00:40:05 ◼ ► Yeah, I think also, like, you'd have to, you'd have to be concerned, you know, you're a many monitors person, and this would be, like, the promotion especially would be such that this monitor would make your other ones look bad.
00:40:22 ◼ ► Well, that's the thing is, the current studio display is in the middle, and my LG Ultra Mez's are on either side, and so I would do a similar trickle down with, as I would with the Apple TV, where this would go in the center, and the current studio display, or the old, now, studio display, would go to one side, and then I would be down to one LG Ultra Mez.
00:40:40 ◼ ► But I'm not going to lie, for a fleeting moment, I thought to myself, should I get three of these?
00:40:55 ◼ ► I would, I mean, you know, we'll get to this probably in a little while, but, like, I would maybe bank some of this for a new MacBook Pro in a few, maybe, like, six months, you know, like, that kind of, like, when...
00:41:09 ◼ ► Like, when, if that, if those rumors are correct, that those are coming, you know, sooner than normal for an upgrade cycle after the ones that just came out, that is probably something that you're going to want.
00:41:20 ◼ ► And so, if you're, if you're, like, you know, in this budget mindset of, like, all right, I just saved myself from buying a car.
00:41:27 ◼ ► And then, in, you know, eight months, when there's amazing MacBook Pros out, go get one of those.
00:41:38 ◼ ► I know you're grumbly about this, but, like, what are you going to do if you ever have to update your monitor?
00:41:43 ◼ ► I'm mostly just feeling protective of my XDR and in fear of the red line designs that Underscore has, because if it dies, my options are now, try to find a used one on eBay that isn't, doesn't have the same problems.
00:41:56 ◼ ► Or, like, downsizing monitors, and that's just not, that's just not a thing computer nerds are used to, like, getting, like, over time, again, computer nerds are used to their monitors getting bigger.
00:42:12 ◼ ► I don't think I've ever regressed, because once you get used to more screen real estate, it's hard to go back.
00:42:18 ◼ ► And because I am a one-monitor person, not a multi-monitor person, it's just been my one monitor getting bigger and bigger, I would not want to go back to 27-inch.
00:42:26 ◼ ► So I'm just, I'm just sending good vibes to my XDR, say, just hang in there, keep going for probably only one more decade when Apple will release a new monitor that's bigger than 32-inch.
00:42:36 ◼ ► Yeah, that's, that's the thing, like, when you are a user of something that gets discontinued, you know, see also the Mac Pro probably pretty soon.
00:42:47 ◼ ► It's never a good feeling when the only company that makes the product that you use or can use or want to use stops making it, because that tells you, like, your needs don't matter.
00:43:05 ◼ ► It's never a good place to feel, and it's never a good place to have your needs be, because what are you going to do?
00:43:11 ◼ ► So in this case, like, you know, the XDR, it's not going to be easy to find a used XDR or a new one in any kind of reasonable condition within a year, because this was never a high volume product to begin with.
00:43:23 ◼ ► It's not like this was super popular and you'll be, you know, if you wanted, like, a mint, brand new in box, you know, MacBook Air from a few years ago, you'll find them, because they make a ton of MacBook Airs, and they sell a ton of MacBook Airs, and people stock them.
00:43:40 ◼ ► This is never a high-stocked, high-volume product, especially after six years of being out.
00:43:46 ◼ ► And so, if you want an XDR and you don't already have one, it's going to be hard to get one.
00:43:52 ◼ ► You know, you might be able to get one this week, maybe, but, like, otherwise, it's going to become difficult.
00:44:05 ◼ ► And the answer is, like, I guess either get one of the third-party ones, which, as an Apple user, is always going to provide an inferior experience and an uglier case and an uglier, you know, situation, or downsize to this one.
00:44:20 ◼ ► So, spend, you know, $3,500 to have what you will perceive as a monitor that is better in some ways, but worse in some pretty significant ones.
00:44:35 ◼ ► And, you know, if I eventually have to replace them, I would probably, with a heavy heart, get this monitor.
00:44:51 ◼ ► If you had bought a Pro Display XDR last week, the one you got was probably manufactured three and a half years ago.
00:45:03 ◼ ► And the used market is like, it's tough because I think a lot of the ones you would find would be like things that were used in like video editing studios or VFX houses or like other things like that that have essentially been used in a professional environment.
00:45:15 ◼ ► They get kind of beat up, you know, things that have been in and out of a Pelican case a lot because those are the ones that are going to end up going on the market.
00:45:21 ◼ ► Individual people are going to keep them until they die and then they're going to, you know, get recycled or whatever.
00:45:27 ◼ ► It's like, oh, well, you know, some Hollywood studio had a whole bunch of these and they just swapped in a bunch of new monitors.
00:45:43 ◼ ► And so, yeah, finding and especially if they have some kind of flaw in them, like the red line happens after X number of years.
00:45:48 ◼ ► If that's been sitting in a box in a warehouse for three and a half years and you buy it, quote unquote, new, it could have the exact same, you know, problem with the red line or whatever other components are going to fail.
00:46:04 ◼ ► So if you had to if your XDRs, both of you died today, Marcos, you said you would hold your nose and get a new XDR.
00:46:14 ◼ ► I would thoroughly research the 6K options and see if there are any of them that I could tolerate the appearance of probably.
00:46:23 ◼ ► Yeah, I would I would wait a week, see what John found out about the other 6K options and then figure something out.
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00:48:54 ◼ ► It supports up to two external displays, each of which can be either 6K at 60 hertz like your ancient pro display XDR or 4K at 144 hertz.
00:49:21 ◼ ► And so anyways, and then new with the environmental stuff is that it's manufactured with 50% renewable electricity.
00:49:30 ◼ ► Pricing, $1,100 for 16 gigs RAM, half terabyte SSD, a core GPU, which is down $100 from the M4 with half terabyte SSD, which is stunning.
00:49:47 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean, so this pricing is like, as we'll see when we get to the Neo, obviously, this was released a day before the Neo, but it's like, this is definitely leaving room for a lower priced computer below it.
00:49:56 ◼ ► So it is cheaper to get into a 512, but you could get into any MacBook Air for $100 less.
00:50:06 ◼ ► And we're not going to go into this much pricing detail with the other computers, because I feel like once you get up into higher amounts of pricing, it gets more difficult.
00:51:04 ◼ ► As I said when we discussed this ages ago, like Apple, we don't know the details of Apple's
00:51:08 ◼ ► deals, but very often they have made deals where they lock in a price for a certain volume
00:51:16 ◼ ► And it is plausible that every computer that we're talking about today still benefits from
00:51:27 ◼ ► They will have to eventually negotiate new deals for new periods of time for new RAM at
00:51:36 ◼ ► Not necessarily to those changes to be reflected in the RAM upgrade prices, but for Apple to shift
00:51:46 ◼ ► We don't talk about their earning calls, but they always talk about what their margins are.
00:51:56 ◼ ► So when they say, oh, our margins were like 50% or whatever, it doesn't mean they have 50%
00:52:04 ◼ ► It just means overall across the entire things they sell, phones, services, you know, Apple
00:52:22 ◼ ► But I would imagine that if, you know, next year at this time, if RAM prices have not come
00:52:27 ◼ ► back to sanity, we're going to be looking at products and trying to figure out where Apple
00:52:39 ◼ ► because of their long-term deals and because of when these might have been manufactured.
00:52:43 ◼ ► So, you know, looking, looking at the MacBook Air M5, it looks a lot like the MacBook Air
00:53:15 ◼ ► The innovative design combines two dies into a single system on a chip, which includes a
00:53:20 ◼ ► powerful CPU, scalable GPU, media engine, unified memory controller, neural engine, and
00:53:29 ◼ ► It includes six of the highest-performing core design, now called Super Cores, that are
00:53:35 ◼ ► Alongside those cores are 12 all-new performance cores optimized for power-efficient multi-threaded
00:53:44 ◼ ► So, performance cores are now Super Cores and efficient cores are now performance cores,
00:54:14 ◼ ► So, here, well, first of all, I'll just do this clarification from Andrew Cunningham from
00:54:17 ◼ ► Ars Technica, who says that Apple's spec pages still draw a distinction between the efficiency
00:54:39 ◼ ► Whatever the most powerful cores are inside a line of chips, Apple now calls them Super
00:54:59 ◼ ► core, called the performance core, which is not the same as the efficiency cores in the
00:55:11 ◼ ► The big ones are called Super Cores in the M5, but the little ones have two different names.
00:55:16 ◼ ► Now, does that mean that the little cores in the M5 are different than the little cores in
00:55:27 ◼ ► The names themselves don't make any sense, but having these three names, Super, Efficiency,
00:55:40 ◼ ► And I think the reason they're different is, as we noted when we talked about the M5 chip,
00:55:49 ◼ ► We were talking about it in TSMC terms as a S-O-I-C-M-H siliconon, I forget what it stands
00:55:57 ◼ ► Anyway, TSMC has a tech where you can take multiple dies and put it onto a thing and make
00:56:02 ◼ ► a chip out of it, and we were talking about how that's better because you can make a bunch
00:56:24 ◼ ► Whole M5 line has the super cores, which, fine, is a renaming of the most powerful cores, but
00:56:30 ◼ ► the M5 has the efficiency cores that presumably are similar to the efficiency cores in the M4
00:56:35 ◼ ► And the M5 Pro and M5 Max have essentially better efficiency cores, which are bigger and more
00:56:42 ◼ ► It's Apple, they really messed up the naming, but what they're going for is name different
00:57:00 ◼ ► We just kept calling them efficiency cores, but we always understood within the context of
00:57:11 ◼ ► And as Jason Snell pointed out, every time you talk to an Apple executive for years, and
00:57:15 ◼ ► at WWDC, they would say this, like, I've heard people say this to me in person, literally.
00:57:25 ◼ ► If you don't like people calling them that, because they were like, oh, I want to be on
00:57:28 ◼ ► Like in every WWDC session where that shows you how to use, like, core affinity and stuff
00:57:39 ◼ ► Like, I get where Apple is coming from, but it's like, we didn't choose the names, Apple.
00:57:45 ◼ ► But again, the ARM nomenclature for the first chips it did is Big Little, where big is an
00:57:54 ◼ ► But like, it's a marketing thing with the tech behind it, because they don't want people to
00:58:00 ◼ ► And as we'll see when we start looking at what's in these chips, the renaming also makes
00:58:19 ◼ ► And having the CPU and GPU as like separate dies, I get Apple didn't release pictures of
00:58:51 ◼ ► Yeah, that's, I really am curious to see those once those start coming out on Geekbench and
00:58:54 ◼ ► stuff, because what they have done is a dramatic drop in the number of performance cores on the
00:59:08 ◼ ► Well, it's actually, you can read Apple's base, like, overall performance claims before
00:59:25 ◼ ► The GPUs, up to four times the peak GPU compute for AI compared to the previous generation, and
00:59:34 ◼ ► That 4X1 is the biggest number they've thrown at, because otherwise, like, 30%, 15%, like,
00:59:39 ◼ ► it's a generation, you know, the M5 is faster than the M4 in the usual amount, which is good,
00:59:45 ◼ ► Four times, that is a big thing, presumably due to improvements in the, I forget what they
00:59:52 ◼ ► call it, like the neural whatever crap that they put into their GPU cores in the previous
00:59:59 ◼ ► Yeah, they put some processing stuff in each GPU core that is useful for doing, like, machine
01:00:06 ◼ ► And I'm, and I guess they improved that in, or I don't know if they improved it or have
01:00:12 ◼ ► But anyway, Apple is making big claims about the GPU compute performance compared, and when
01:00:17 ◼ ► they say previous generation, they mean, like, I'm assuming they mean, like, the M5 Max
01:00:21 ◼ ► So that's a big number, and that is significant because if you think about where, what kind
01:00:26 ◼ ► of CPU, or, you know, what kind of GPU bound workloads are people doing these days, AI is
01:00:33 ◼ ► So, I mean, we'll have to see what the benchmarks bear out and how realistic that 4X number is,
01:00:41 ◼ ► Yeah, for the most part, like, the regular base model M4 to the regular base model M5, it
01:00:48 ◼ ► was a very similar thing of, like, yeah, about 15% faster CPUs and GPUs got better depending
01:00:56 ◼ ► And so we're seeing roughly the same claims here, about 15% faster multi-thread CPU performance.
01:01:07 ◼ ► You know, the number of performance cores, sorry, excuse me, the number of large cores has
01:01:15 ◼ ► gone substantially down in these higher chips, and the number of smaller cores has gone substantially
01:01:21 ◼ ► So, it's kind of like a flatter design, so to speak, of, like, you know, the difference between
01:01:31 ◼ ► Only benchmarks and use will be able to tell us, like, if that makes a significant difference
01:01:38 ◼ ► But it is curious that, like, it's a radically different balance of power, so to speak.
01:01:50 ◼ ► And 10 performance cores versus the M4 Pro, which was eight performance, so now there's five
01:02:19 ◼ ► So, you know, it's really just total inversion, and that's why the naming makes sense, because,
01:02:25 ◼ ► look, when we talk about, like, power cores versus efficiency cores, like, what do we actually
01:03:10 ◼ ► Another way you can make them bigger is you can add more cache, more L1 cache, and stuff
01:03:36 ◼ ► But the question always is, for a given workload, when you're sending something through like a
01:03:55 ◼ ► And at that point, if you had sent that same load through a quote unquote efficiency core,
01:03:59 ◼ ► it would have been just as fast or maybe even faster if the pipeline is shallower or something
01:04:04 ◼ ► So you never quite know what the trade-offs are of like, should I send this to the bigger
01:04:10 ◼ ► core and waste time running through that machinery if it's not going to take advantage of most
01:04:19 ◼ ► I think what they did is made the smaller cores bigger enough so that it makes more sense to
01:04:34 ◼ ► And I think the way they did that, and we'll have to wait for a die shot to see if this theory
01:04:38 ◼ ► bears out, is that they made the little cores big enough to essentially be the best choice
01:04:44 ◼ ► for almost everything you do and only really, really specialize the bigger cores for jobs
01:04:51 ◼ ► that are actually going to use all the machinery they have, that need the more sophisticated branch
01:04:54 ◼ ► prediction, that need the deeper pipeline, that need the extra execution units, that need the
01:05:11 ◼ ► And so we'll see, like, especially we'll see what like the performance, the power numbers,
01:05:19 ◼ ► If they were able to flip this arrangement going from twice as many big to little to twice as many
01:05:23 ◼ ► little to big and still get a performance increase, that I think says to me that they have made the
01:05:38 ◼ ► So they got three extra cores, similar power envelope, I would hope, and better performance.
01:05:44 ◼ ► So I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt now and say this total inversion of big to little
01:06:01 ◼ ► Like, their whole deal is we can figure out how best to serve the workloads that people
01:06:05 ◼ ► actually use our Macs for and then make a chip that does that better than the previous one.
01:06:09 ◼ ► I think my major concern here, assuming that they have kept performance good, you know,
01:06:15 ◼ ► when you need it, which, you know, the benchmarks or as the quoted metrics suggest that they probably
01:06:21 ◼ ► have, we'll see what happens with the benchmarks, but there was a side effect that I'm not sure
01:06:26 ◼ ► was intentional, but there was a side effect of having the low power cores be very low power.
01:06:33 ◼ ► And that is that, you know, if you recall back in the days of everyone having these Intel Mac laptops,
01:06:39 ◼ ► you would sometimes get one core at, you know, being used 100% by some background process,
01:06:47 ◼ ► whether it was, you know, MD worker indexing, Dropbox, like, you know, whatever, you know,
01:06:52 ◼ ► Chrome's weird updating things, like, whatever it was, like, you would often get a case where some
01:06:57 ◼ ► kind of common app on the Mac or common background service would use 100% CPU, like, forever.
01:07:03 ◼ ► And back on those old laptops, what that would do is make your laptop run hot, have crappy battery
01:07:08 ◼ ► life and have the fans kind of running all the time, because it's some one thing in the background
01:07:17 ◼ ► When we moved to Apple Silicon, and we had these, these, like, small low power cores as one of the
01:07:22 ◼ ► options in the chip, Mac OS was very smart about how to dispatch things to them. And one of the things
01:07:26 ◼ ► that Mac OS did was, as I think, everything running in the background would run only on the low power
01:07:33 ◼ ► cores. A side effect of that is that when you would have one of those, like, runaway 100% CPUs,
01:07:39 ◼ ► which background processes, it was only running on these low power cores. And they just didn't,
01:07:45 ◼ ► they were so small on low power, that even if you were maxing one out forever, it would have almost
01:07:51 ◼ ► no noticeable effect on battery life, heat or fan noise. If they make the smaller cores bigger,
01:07:59 ◼ ► I hope they've somehow accounted to keep that still be the effect, like, maybe background processes
01:08:06 ◼ ► still get, you know, lower maximum thermal use, maybe, you know, maybe that maybe the background
01:08:10 ◼ ► processes still, you know, get their wattage limit or CPU usage over time, maybe they're running at a
01:08:16 ◼ ► lower clock speed when they're in the background. Who knows, there's all sorts of advanced things they
01:08:20 ◼ ► can do with power management now. But I hope that that effect of limiting the damage done to the user
01:08:27 ◼ ► experience by runaway background processes, I hope that is maintained now that the smaller cores have
01:08:34 ◼ ► gotten bigger. I mean, I think they've gotten bigger, maybe in terms of transistor count. But remember,
01:08:45 ◼ ► Oh, versus the M3, I guess. I forget if this one, well, we don't know, because this is the new,
01:08:52 ◼ ► I don't know if the process is the same N3 whatever as the M5, because it is the chiplet thing.
01:09:00 ◼ ► I don't, I don't actually know. I don't know if there, if there is like an N3 letter that I don't
01:09:05 ◼ ► know that it applies to the chiplet thing. But anyway, we'll see when they cut the dye thing off
01:09:13 ◼ ► Not, not like to two nanometer, obviously. These are all three nanometer. I'm just saying,
01:09:17 ◼ ► is it N3P versus N3, whatever. Um, but we'll see because they do, they did go from four to 10 of
01:09:24 ◼ ► these. So I bet they're still pretty small. Um, and who knows if my theory about them being bulked up
01:09:30 ◼ ► to, to be good for the majority of tests is correct. It could be that they were already best for the
01:09:34 ◼ ► majority of tests. And they just learned that by like low, you know, seeing real world usage on the
01:09:39 ◼ ► M4s. Again, we'll see when they, they, someone slices these chips open and we'll, they'll map out
01:09:43 ◼ ► like here all the different cores and we can just physically measure them. Do they look about the
01:09:46 ◼ ► same size as the old efficiency cores? Are they a little bigger? How much bigger? Also, there may
01:09:51 ◼ ► be improvements in parts of the efficiency cores that can be turned off. As you said, there's clock
01:09:55 ◼ ► throttling and everything, but like, you know, as we see, the specs say the performance is better.
01:09:59 ◼ ► The battery specs say that this performs about the same as the M4 one. So I'm optimistic that,
01:10:06 ◼ ► I mean, it's not going to, it's not going to be a big, impressive thing. This is just like a
01:10:13 ◼ ► that tech transition at the same time as maintaining our normal year over year improvements while also
01:10:19 ◼ ► doing this complete inversion of the ratio of our big cores to our little cores? And according to
01:10:25 ◼ ► everything Apple has released, they're basically saying they've done it. We'll wait to see what
01:10:28 ◼ ► the benchmarks are. All right. The GPU is either. Actually you skipped the 18 core one was this is
01:10:33 ◼ ► the interesting thing. These come in 15 and 18 core. Um, and the 18 core is just with everything
01:10:38 ◼ ► enabled direct. It's six super and 12 performance. And so instead of being like the M4 was,
01:10:43 ◼ ► 10 big, four little, and this is six big, 12 little again, total inversion, but the 18 cores
01:10:49 ◼ ► are the ones with everything working. GPU 16 core or 20 core with enhanced shader core with second
01:10:55 ◼ ► generation dynamic caching and hardware accelerator accelerated mesh shading. There is 307 gigabits
01:11:02 ◼ ► per second memory bandwidth. This will become relevant soon. This is up 12 and a half percent over
01:11:06 ◼ ► the M4 pros, 273 gigabits per second. For external displays, you can do three, each of which can be
01:11:13 ◼ ► 6k at 60 Hertz or 4k at 144 Hertz, or you can do two in a variety of different combinations. I'm not
01:11:20 ◼ ► going to read out and it supports up to three external displays over a single thunderbolt port.
01:11:33 ◼ ► Yeah, I guess even my third party ones, but yeah, but the display is the port continues to be really
01:11:37 ◼ ► good. And the two display support is weird because you have to pick like one of these monitors and
01:11:42 ◼ ► then one of these other set of monitors. So it's like mixing, but the bandwidth is what it is. You're
01:11:46 ◼ ► just slicing and dicing. How much bandwidth do you have with display stream compression to just,
01:11:50 ◼ ► but the point is this is what we're reading you now is the M5 pro. Remember really good display
01:11:56 ◼ ► support because the M5 pros, as we noted before, when Apple said the M5 pro and the M5 max feature
01:12:02 ◼ ► new 18 core architecture, guess what? The M5 pro and the M5 max are basically the same except for GPU
01:12:09 ◼ ► core. So it's going back to the M1 and M2 generation when the pro and the max, the pro was just the max
01:12:14 ◼ ► with some GPU cores lopped off. Now this is not, I don't think it's a lopping off thing. We'll have to see
01:12:18 ◼ ► what, you know, again, cause that the whole architecture is different with separate dyes
01:12:21 ◼ ► inside the package and stuff, but that's the upshot that the pro, this is a good pro year. If you don't
01:12:27 ◼ ► care about GPU, the pro has all the same goods as the max essentially, uh, modulo binning, uh, and you
01:12:35 ◼ ► just have fewer GPUs inside there. Yeah, that's, this is a great, like, I mean, geez, I've been really
01:12:39 ◼ ► been, uh, eating some crow on this, on my pro opinions the last couple of weeks, but like, this is
01:12:49 ◼ ► were buying today, um, and if the amount of RAM I wanted was available in the pro, I would buy the
01:12:57 ◼ ► pro. No question. How much RAM do you want? Well, all of it. We'll get to that when we get to the
01:13:02 ◼ ► computers. We're still just doing the SOCs, but anyway, uh, the max, it only comes in 18 core. So
01:13:07 ◼ ► that's just, you know, market segmentation. They could make it with, you know, the 15 core in it,
01:13:14 ◼ ► it's six big cores, 12 little ones. There's no wondering which one you're going to get. All
01:13:18 ◼ ► the maxes have everything working. You do get a choice in the GPU. You can get the, uh, even
01:13:24 ◼ ► bigger that is that the pro has a 20 core, 16 core or 20 core GPU. The max has 32 or 40. Those are
01:13:31 ◼ ► your two choices. So the big, the big GPU thing has twice as many cores as the pro. Again, if you don't
01:13:36 ◼ ► care about GPU, the CPU parts are the same if you get them like not the non-binned ones. Um, so yeah,
01:13:42 ◼ ► good year, uh, memory bandwidth, memory bandwidth, interestingly, varies based on the number of GPU
01:13:48 ◼ ► cores. I don't know if it's related to the GPU, GPU cores. It might be, but because they need to be
01:13:53 ◼ ► fed, but it might just be a segmentation. But anyway, the M5 max, all the CPU cores always work,
01:13:58 ◼ ► but when you pick how many working GPU cores, what you want, if you get the 32 GPU core one,
01:14:03 ◼ ► you get four 60 gigabytes per second, which is 12.2% increase over the similarly been 32 core M4
01:14:10 ◼ ► maxes GPU. And if you get the 40 core GPU, you get 614 gigabytes, which is again, 12.5% over the 40
01:14:17 ◼ ► core M4 maxes GPU. So be aware of those differences there. And the display support is just ridiculously
01:14:24 ◼ ► good. Um, this, this is the only one that says just native display port 2.1 speeds. I don't think
01:14:30 ◼ ► they said display port stuff for the other ones, but anyway, um, four displays, you can do four 6k
01:14:37 ◼ ► displays if Apple sold them. Um, or, you know, two displays varying, right? It's a huge amount of
01:14:42 ◼ ► display bandwidth. You won't have any problem with this supports up to four external displays over a
01:14:47 ◼ ► single Thunderbolt port. Uh, it's pretty amazing. It's a pretty beefy GPU for what we'll, as we will
01:14:52 ◼ ► see is a laptop GPU, uh, good chip. Yeah, this is really impressive. Uh, I'm not in the market for a
01:14:58 ◼ ► new MacBook pro and let me tell you, I priced one and it was over $6,000 the way I would probably
01:15:03 ◼ ► build it, which is a lot. Um, but the thing that, the thing that I'm very curious about, and we don't
01:15:09 ◼ ► necessarily need to cover this now, but I wonder if I would want to pick a max, which is what I've had.
01:15:15 ◼ ► I had an M1 max and M3 max right now, but I want to pick the max for the increased memory bandwidth.
01:15:19 ◼ ► And I don't, maybe not. No, not for what you do with it. Absolutely not. Fair. All right. Well, that answers
01:15:24 ◼ ► that. Well, that's why it's a good year for people who do not care about GPU. This is the year to get
01:15:28 ◼ ► the pro because it's back at the old days where you're all you're, all you're giving up. If you don't get
01:15:32 ◼ ► the bin one is you're giving up GPU that you aren't going to use anyway. And Hey, that's less heat and
01:15:36 ◼ ► everything. So it's, it's a win. I mean, the real question when with picking, I guess we'll get to this
01:15:40 ◼ ► maybe a little bit later, but the real question with picking these is like, will, how much will this
01:15:49 ◼ ► how much will it matter for AI stuff? Cause that's obviously like a major thing going on right
01:15:54 ◼ ► now. I'm sorry, everybody. Yes, I'm talking about it. And so, you know, there's a question of like,
01:15:58 ◼ ► well, what if I wanted to run local models? What we have seen so far is that while we can run local
01:16:06 ◼ ► models on some of the higher end max, if we shove enough RAM into them for a million dollars,
01:16:11 ◼ ► that's not really a mainstream thing. That's not really a thing that most of us need to do or will do
01:16:16 ◼ ► or will be able to do in a way that is competitive with what the, what the big server side models are
01:16:22 ◼ ► able to do for us. Will that change over the course of owning your next laptop? If you're looking to
01:16:28 ◼ ► buy one of these, I don't think anybody can really say, uh, but like how much are you willing to throw
01:16:34 ◼ ► down, you know, thousands of dollars for really high specs that you might end up barely using because
01:16:40 ◼ ► what you're mostly using your big grunt CPU power is like happening in data center somewhere.
01:16:45 ◼ ► Yeah. I would bet against it. I mean, there is a possibility because these companies are highly
01:16:49 ◼ ► motivated to reduce the cost of inference. So basically, can we get a way to run models with
01:16:56 ◼ ► less power, like less CPU power that would, they're, they're highly motivated to do that because it saves
01:17:01 ◼ ► them a lot of money, right? If there is a breakthrough in that area, if they say, Oh, we've found a way to run
01:17:07 ◼ ► models that work like our current ones, but use half the RAM or something like that is the only way that you
01:17:12 ◼ ► should, that you will be, get the benefits of like future benefits of running local models. Cause right now,
01:17:18 ◼ ► unless you already know that you want to run, if you're, you know, if you're not already running local models,
01:17:23 ◼ ► don't buy a machine for the purposes of running local models. Cause if you buy this machine today, right now,
01:17:29 ◼ ► models are just getting bigger and bigger and harder and harder to run locally. If you're talking about the
01:17:34 ◼ ► lead bleeding edge models, if you care about the bleeding edge models, don't run them on your
01:17:38 ◼ ► laptop, right? And you have to run them in a server because you just, a lot of them, you just literally
01:17:42 ◼ ► can't run because you're not going to have enough memory, right? So unless there's a breakthrough in
01:17:45 ◼ ► that, or unless you're very interested in running small local models, again, you're probably already
01:17:50 ◼ ► doing that. So if you're not currently running local models, do not buy an M5 Mac pro based on your
01:17:59 ◼ ► ability to run local models, because if you're not already doing it in the future, it's, you're just going to be
01:18:03 ◼ ► less likely to do it because the models are just going to get bigger and more demanding. And
01:18:07 ◼ ► honestly, if you know, most people probably should be using the bigger models because they're just
01:18:12 ◼ ► more capable and you don't want to run them yourself. Like they're so demanding. Like there's a reason
01:18:17 ◼ ► those, you know, those GPUs that they're running them on costs like 60 grand or whatever. And there's
01:18:21 ◼ ► multiple ones. You don't want to be doing that yourself unless you're already doing it. Cause if
01:18:26 ◼ ► you're already doing it, then, you know, and what you should probably do is get like an M5 pro Mac
01:18:29 ◼ ► mini or something someday. Cause that's what you want. It's like maximum bang for small amount of buck or
01:18:34 ◼ ► whatever. So yeah, I wouldn't like, it's just, I just feel like we're, it's such early stages is like, okay,
01:18:41 ◼ ► maybe you can run like some local model today, but in three years, that local model is going to be garbage.
01:18:46 ◼ ► Like, what do you care? Yeah. All right. The M5 pro and the M5 max both support, uh, memory
01:18:51 ◼ ► integrity enforcement, which we've talked about on and off over the last few months. Yeah. And it was,
01:18:55 ◼ ► that was introduced with the A19 series and the M5 and just clarifying all the whole M5 family supports
01:19:00 ◼ ► it. And, and the, everything before that in the M family does not. All right. The M5 pro and M5
01:19:06 ◼ ► max MacBook pros 14, 16 inches, just as before the M5 pro, you can get the 15 core CPU, 16 core GPU
01:19:14 ◼ ► with 24 or 48 gigs of Ram. You can get the 18 core CPU, 20 core GPU at 24, 48 or 64 gigs Ram,
01:19:22 ◼ ► which is new. That was what forced my hand on the max in the past is that I always wanted 64 gigs Ram.
01:19:28 ◼ ► And now I wouldn't have to, to, to both of your points earlier, uh, John Gruber pointed out that this
01:19:34 ◼ ► means the price for a MacBook pro with 64 gigs of Ram, if that's your main concern, hello, dropped by over
01:19:40 ◼ ► by $800 year over year. Last year, you needed to buy one of the high end M4 max chips to get the 64 gigs.
01:19:46 ◼ ► That's very good news. However, it comes with an SSD of one, two or four terabytes, no half terabyte
01:19:58 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean, this is the thing, like Apple does have to sort of segment these, like, I, you know,
01:20:02 ◼ ► again, doing 24 and 48, like, all right, well, 24, 48 and 64, like the segmentation makes some sense,
01:20:10 ◼ ► but like the SSD is really not particularly related to the SOC in a way that explains the lack of an eight
01:20:16 ◼ ► terabyte. It's just market segmentation. And then the M5 max you can do with a 32 core. Do you get 36 gigs
01:20:25 ◼ ► of Ram and you will like it for the 40 core? You can do 48, 64 or 128 gigs of Ram SSD in two, four or
01:20:32 ◼ ► eight terabytes. And then between the two of them, all of them share the same screen, which is unchanged
01:20:38 ◼ ► for the M4 pro and max a thousand nits, uh, up to 1600, uh, peak on HDR, 120 Hertz nano textures, 150 bucks
01:20:45 ◼ ► has the N1 with wifi seven and Bluetooth six, uh, size and weight is unchanged ports unchanged. Uh,
01:20:52 ◼ ► battery is largely unchanged, although slightly different, uh, amounts of video streaming and
01:20:58 ◼ ► wireless web, which is their, you know, ridiculous, uh, metrics. Yeah. And mostly like, so the, the,
01:21:02 ◼ ► the M5 pro gives you two more hours of video streaming. So that's, I mean, that's a measurable
01:21:07 ◼ ► increase over the M4 pro, right? So that's, that's reasonable. M5 max is down an hour with wireless
01:21:13 ◼ ► web and down an hour with video streaming. So that's interesting. Um, and the, the battery sizes are
01:21:18 ◼ ► unchanged on these models. The 14 inch is still 72.4 watt hour for both of them, I believe. So
01:21:23 ◼ ► it seems like basically a wash, but again, I want these, these, the numbers that Apple always gives you
01:21:28 ◼ ► with battery is like, we don't know how you perform these tests. What the heck is wireless
01:21:31 ◼ ► web? Like, what are you doing? So as usual, battery testing, well, I'm sure we'll be all over the place,
01:21:37 ◼ ► but, uh, it will be instructive to see how these new, uh, uh, we keep saying chumplet architecture.
01:21:42 ◼ ► It's probably the wrong term, but it's, it's a nice way to visualize more than one die inside the
01:21:47 ◼ ► package. How will they behave in terms of thermals, battery life to Marco's point? How does the change
01:21:53 ◼ ► in ratios of big to little cores affect things? You're not going to tell from looking at these
01:21:57 ◼ ► battery numbers. We'll have to wait for people to test them. All right. And then the microphone
01:22:01 ◼ ► quotes, voice isolation and wide spectrum microphone modes for enhanced voice clarity in audio and video
01:22:06 ◼ ► calls. Oh yeah. You skipped over the 16 inch battery. It's interesting that the 16 inch battery is exactly
01:22:11 ◼ ► the same for the M five pro, but the 16 inch battery is plus two hours on wireless web and plus one hour
01:22:18 ◼ ► on video streaming for the max. I don't understand. Like they didn't change the battery size at all.
01:22:22 ◼ ► So why does the max and the 14 inch go down an hour and the max and the 16 inch goes up an hour?
01:22:28 ◼ ► Like it's, it's very weird. I just, I don't quite understand if they had changed the battery sizes.
01:22:32 ◼ ► This would make sense to me, but I mean, it's the same, it's the same chip in a 14 inch and a 16 inch
01:22:38 ◼ ► laptop. And it seems to get different performance. All right. The environment story is basic,
01:22:42 ◼ ► most largely the same as the M four pro and max. However, new is that it's made with 45% recycled content
01:22:48 ◼ ► and manufactured again with 50% renewable electricity. The price for the M five pro and
01:22:53 ◼ ► M five max starts at $1,700 for the 14 inch and $2,700 with 16 inch. I had to set check that like
01:23:00 ◼ ► three times. I'm like, this has to be wrong. I must have the wrong windows open. How can the starting
01:23:04 ◼ ► price for the M five pro and M five max be exactly the same? And the answer is, I think that they're just
01:23:08 ◼ ► like, it's not apples to apples because they're, you know, different number of cores are disabled,
01:23:13 ◼ ► different amount of RAM. Like the base configs are different, but I believe, I mean, triple check
01:23:18 ◼ ► me. They, they both start at $1,700, whichever chip you pick pro or max. Um, that does seem a little
01:23:26 ◼ ► bananas to me on the 16 inch, maybe on the 14 inch. Are you sure? Cause I'm seeing it triple check me,
01:23:31 ◼ ► it might be wrong. I'm seeing it say M five pro is from 23, 49 M five max is from 37, 49. Yeah.
01:23:44 ◼ ► All right. Maybe I'm, maybe I did it wrong. That's why I doubted myself. I'm going to do it. I'm going
01:23:48 ◼ ► to check it. Yeah. I think he did. Cause it's, it's like, it's like $1,300 for the max.
01:23:53 ◼ ► All right. Shop. I'm going to go 14 inch. As Casey was saying earlier, like they really have
01:23:59 ◼ ► restricted a lot of the high memory and SSD configurations to the max chip. Even like if you
01:24:06 ◼ ► want the eight terabyte SSD, you can't just get a max. You have to get like the highest
01:24:13 ◼ ► like it's just, everything is like you, you have to really max out the processor to get the
01:24:19 ◼ ► most Ram or maybe I was just clicking on the wrong things. All right. Set that aside. That's
01:24:23 ◼ ► not true. All right. Well, do we, do we want to reboot this whole thing then? No, you can leave
01:24:26 ◼ ► in my mistake. Like I swear I checked it like three times. You know what it is? They've changed
01:24:30 ◼ ► the product configurator. There was a story about this a while of like how you don't pick like
01:24:37 ◼ ► made like the clicking of like, you know, you have to like pick a color first or we won't
01:24:40 ◼ ► let you pick anything else. Now pick a screen. It won't let you pick anything else. When you
01:24:44 ◼ ► get down to the chip section, they have these sort of collapsing set of round racks. And I
01:24:47 ◼ ► think they've bamboozled me because when you click on the chip, like there's another rectangle
01:24:51 ◼ ► that appears where you have to pick like the number of cores and stuff. And I just think I
01:25:01 ◼ ► All right. So yeah. So basically there, the max is, as you said, super duper expensive,
01:25:06 ◼ ► but the Ram upgrades seem to be price same as before. Same basic story as before. We don't
01:25:15 ◼ ► Like, like when you go to a higher Ram level, you're paying the same ridiculous prices you
01:25:18 ◼ ► were always paying. They just seem less ridiculous now because Ram prices are really high everywhere.
01:25:23 ◼ ► But the point is Apple didn't actually increase their Ram upgrade prices. They were so ridiculous.
01:25:28 ◼ ► Unless they were able to absorb the changes or they locked in their prices before and they're
01:25:34 ◼ ► And I think what's interesting about this too, is like, you know, Apple historically does not
01:25:39 ◼ ► change these prices during the lifetime of that product. So what they, you know, by keeping the
01:25:45 ◼ ► prices the same, what they are communicating is not only probably is this, you know, a, a, a comparable
01:25:58 ◼ ► it's becoming a better buy, but also Apple seems most likely to expect that they will not have to
01:26:04 ◼ ► change this price at all, at least until the next MacBook pro comes out. That's impressive. You know,
01:26:10 ◼ ► given the current environment, you know, we, we always hear that Apple establishes long-term
01:26:15 ◼ ► relationships with suppliers and they guarantee themselves a certain amount of stock and certain
01:26:19 ◼ ► good price terms and everything. But we've also been hearing recently, and I think this is probably
01:26:24 ◼ ► true that Apple is no longer like the darling customer of some of the big chip fabs and memory
01:26:30 ◼ ► suppliers and things, because all of these component orders coming in from all the AI companies, you know,
01:26:37 ◼ ► they, they're like all of a sudden like the new good customer for TSMC. And, and like, you know,
01:26:43 ◼ ► like Nvidia is buying a whole bunch of chips from TSMC and you know, everybody making their own AI
01:26:48 ◼ ► accelerators. Like they're all buying a bunch of chips from TSMC. Everyone's buying a bunch of memory
01:26:52 ◼ ► from the memory companies besides Apple now. So like Apple is no longer necessarily like the only
01:26:58 ◼ ► or the biggest significant customer to the fabs and the component suppliers. So you would think based
01:27:04 ◼ ► on all of that, you would think that Apple would not be able to get as good of terms from everybody
01:27:10 ◼ ► for them, for their supplies and their pricing and their availability and everything as they are
01:27:13 ◼ ► accustomed to getting. So either they still are getting great terms or they just think like it
01:27:20 ◼ ► will be able to weather whatever temporary blip there is. And then, you know, in a few years when
01:27:25 ◼ ► things are more calm, maybe, you know, we'll, we will absorb it. But that's, none of that is what
01:27:39 ◼ ► Because like, again, because like the long-term contracts, the fact that these, these, these
01:27:43 ◼ ► are products are still well within a reasonable window of a long-term contract. And if any company
01:27:48 ◼ ► on earth has room in its RAM margins to absorb a RAM increase, it's Apple because their prices have
01:27:53 ◼ ► been like, we did the math on it a while ago. It was like 6.5 times market prices or something.
01:27:59 ◼ ► Like they had room, they had room in there. And you know, I mean, if I, I just think these,
01:28:05 ◼ ► these products, this generate, even though they're being released now, these have been in the pipeline
01:28:10 ◼ ► for a while. I just think these don't, these are, we don't see a reflection of the, of the changes that
01:28:15 ◼ ► you just described, Marco, in these products. Um, and, and if they do need to like, again, with like
01:28:20 ◼ ► the OLED models, if they do need to, uh, absorb that cost somewhere, I feel like they'll shave the
01:28:25 ◼ ► cost somewhere else and leave their RAM prices somewhere. We'll see. And this is another
01:28:28 ◼ ► quite slightly baffling one. The storage prices have gone down a little bit, which is only baffling
01:28:33 ◼ ► because we're in the weird world of Apple, like everywhere else in the industry, of course,
01:28:36 ◼ ► storage prices go down year over year because you can get bigger SSDs for less money over time.
01:28:40 ◼ ► Cause that's how technology progresses, right? Not an Apple land. They just keep the same prices
01:28:44 ◼ ► forever and ever. The only reason the prices change is like eventually one of the sizes falls
01:28:48 ◼ ► off the end because it becomes too embarrassing even for Apple to ship. And that did happen. Like
01:28:52 ◼ ► they dropped some of the lower configs, but here on the MacBook Pro, M5 Pro and M5 Mac MacBook Pros,
01:28:57 ◼ ► a config with a one terabyte SSD is now $100 cheaper than it used to be. And going from one
01:29:01 ◼ ► to two is $200 cheaper than it used to be. And going from two to four is $200 cheaper than it used
01:29:06 ◼ ► to be. And this is also true for the M5 MacBook Pro, not just the M5 Pro. And I think they adjusted
01:29:12 ◼ ► those storage prices as well. So storage prices went down slightly. Again, their storage prices are also
01:29:18 ◼ ► ridiculous. And like, you know, going from one terabyte to two terabytes is not a $200 increase
01:29:25 ◼ ► in most scenarios, but you know, uh, we, we accept those prices because it's the only, we have no other
01:29:32 ◼ ► choice and it's nice to see them go down. So as, as Casey found, if you spend a while in that
01:29:37 ◼ ► configurator clicking on these round racks and watching things collapse and whatever and build
01:29:41 ◼ ► the computer of your dreams, it will cost the price of your nightmares, I guess it's not going to work
01:29:48 ◼ ► out well for you, especially since Apple does. I mean, they have to have some reasonable number
01:29:52 ◼ ► configs. They drive you towards stuff. Like again, if you get the M5 max, no, there's no bend option
01:29:56 ◼ ► for you. You get the one with everything enabled and you pay for it and you have no choice. And if you
01:30:01 ◼ ► want a larger amount of Ram, tough luck, you can't get the lower power CPU. If you want that extra
01:30:05 ◼ ► about a Ram, you got to, you know, so that's just the way it is. And honestly, I think the
01:30:09 ◼ ► configurability of in particular, the M5 pro and M5 max Macbook pros is pretty okay. There are a lot
01:30:16 ◼ ► of options, but no, there's not infinite options. You can't, you know, as we surmise like, Oh, if
01:30:20 ◼ ► there's a chiplet architecture, they can mix and match the CPUs and GPUs. Yeah. Apple can mix and match
01:30:25 ◼ ► them, but it's not like it's going to be a configurator where you pick how many cores and they
01:30:28 ◼ ► manufactured on demand for you or something. They just picked a bunch of configs that they think fit the
01:30:32 ◼ ► lineup and they spread them out. And I think it is reasonable. And maybe the most egregious thing
01:30:37 ◼ ► is like limiting of the Ram on the, on the, the, the chips with less GPU, but they kind of always do
01:30:41 ◼ ► that. But in the grand scheme of things, it is a better year than normal because the pro chip has
01:30:51 ◼ ► Yeah. So if you need or desire an eight terabyte drive, you are looking at $6,250 fun. My goodness.
01:31:05 ◼ ► I mean, and to be clear, like these, this is like top of the line performance, top of the line,
01:31:13 ◼ ► everything like, you know, they, this is a laptop, but you know, this is exactly the kind of thing I use
01:31:19 ◼ ► a laptop as a desktop for. Like I have a high spec'd MacBook Pro, you know, mine's the M3 generation.
01:31:29 ◼ ► Um, but if you are trying to have like a Mac pro, so to speak, this is a really good way to do it for
01:31:37 ◼ ► most people. And so that's what we're talking like when, when you, when you look at like, what did it
01:31:42 ◼ ► cost to spec out like an iMac pro or, you know, other Mac pros before they were what, whatever the
01:31:48 ◼ ► heck the monster of there is now. Um, you know, it was always in like, you know, if you, if you wanted
01:31:53 ◼ ► the highest Ram config, the highest processor config, the highest storage config, you were always like,
01:32:00 ◼ ► you know, five to $7,000 like that, that's always roughly where that got you. Um, so for what this
01:32:06 ◼ ► is getting us, I don't think this pricing is unprecedented and necessarily even unreasonable.
01:32:13 ◼ ► Um, it's just, this is a very high end product and we're talking about very high end resource levels,
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01:34:14 ◼ ► And then finally we have what we all were expecting the low cost MacBook with a name that we weren't
01:34:25 ◼ ► expecting until yesterday when it was leaked. Uh, but that's okay. Uh, it was leaked, uh, yesterday.
01:34:32 ◼ ► Like I said, there's a article at Mac rumors, which we'll link, uh, also Buck points out that, uh,
01:34:38 ◼ ► Cupertino and Apple have kind of sort of stolen a name of a surface. The surface Neo is an unreleased
01:34:45 ◼ ► dual touch screen two in one PC that was unveiled by Microsoft on October 2nd of 2019. Whoopsie doopsie.
01:34:52 ◼ ► I mean, I think at this point, I think if they, I think they're allowed to steal a name that's
01:34:59 ◼ ► usually you see like Apple, you know, for better or for worse, mostly for setting naming trends,
01:35:05 ◼ ► like pro and max, which suddenly appeared on every other thing in the universe, Apple, Apple started
01:35:09 ◼ ► using them, not because they're good names, but just because Apple essentially made them
01:35:12 ◼ ► have good values associated with them by naming their products. So then, yeah, but in this case,
01:35:18 ◼ ► they're bringing Neo is, you know, has been in product names for ages, even yes, even before the
01:35:22 ◼ ► matrix. Um, and it is again, but, uh, if this trend catches on and people start calling their
01:35:29 ◼ ► products in the, Oh, I think people will attribute it to Apple, but other people have been out there
01:35:32 ◼ ► first. It's just a question of like when Apple does it, it seems cool. And people copy it.
01:35:35 ◼ ► All right. So what do we got a 18 pro the CPU is six cores to performance, but not super right.
01:35:44 ◼ ► Because it's only in the M five and everything except for the M five pro and max, the old name
01:35:49 ◼ ► still apply. All right. So two performance for efficiency, that is not bins. The GPU is five
01:35:56 ◼ ► core, which six core would be unbinned. There is no fan, John, uh, the benchmarks with the iPhone 16
01:36:03 ◼ ► pro max as a stand in, uh, pretty good. I mean, John, how would you like to, there's a lot of numbers
01:36:08 ◼ ► in our show notes here, but so like the iPhone 16 pro is the max is the stand in because it's got the
01:36:12 ◼ ► same thing. It's got an 18 pro and I picked the pro max instead of the pro figuring like it's the
01:36:17 ◼ ► biggest. So it's the closest analog to a laptop because I don't know there's more room inside it
01:36:20 ◼ ► or whatever. So we'll have to see what the actual benchmarks are, because for all we know, it is
01:36:24 ◼ ► clocked higher. It has better cooling and that we don't know. We don't, we don't, but the using just
01:36:28 ◼ ► the phone pro max is a stand in, which I think is a reasonable kind of like conservative estimate of
01:36:34 ◼ ► how this chip is going to perform in the laptop scenario, assuming they didn't really screw up the
01:36:38 ◼ ► cooling. Uh, here's what it looks like. Uh, single core CPU is 19% slower than an M5, 30% faster than
01:36:47 ◼ ► an M1 and 90% faster than the M2 ultra and the Mac pro. Oh, so not even your Mac pro. No, this is the
01:36:56 ◼ ► current Mac pro. It is 19% faster in single core than the current $7,000 Mac pro that you can buy right
01:37:05 ◼ ► now at apple.com. This, the, the Mac book pro Neo has 19% faster, single core performance.
01:37:12 ◼ ► That's amazing. And it is, it is 2.5 times faster than the single core performance of my Mac pro.
01:37:16 ◼ ► Cause I know you want to know that just FYI multi-core. It is 1% faster than the M1 or 1% slower.
01:37:24 ◼ ► Again, the caveat with a geek bench stores, if you look them up, geek bench has like a leaderboard
01:37:29 ◼ ► and I like pulled from that. But if you look at individual results, they vary all over the place.
01:37:33 ◼ ► Cause I don't know people are putting their things on ice packs or like, who knows? Like
01:37:36 ◼ ► the numbers always vary by a few percent. So don't like, when I say 1% faster, just assume
01:37:40 ◼ ► it's like, it's a wash. But these are the numbers that I pulled out of the top charts. Right. So
01:37:44 ◼ ► I have the exact numbers here in the document, but you know, who knows how exactly they are?
01:37:47 ◼ ► Because again, it varies. Um, it's two times slower in multi-core than the M5. It's 2.5 times
01:38:06 ◼ ► Yeah. And my Mac pro is 20% faster in multi-core. So go my Mac pro. Uh, it's ridiculous. Uh, GPU
01:38:14 ◼ ► wise, it is 2.2% slower than the M1. So I would call that a wash. It is 2.3 times slower
01:38:26 ◼ ► four times slower than my, uh, Radeon pro Vega two. So Jason Snell has some, has some charts
01:38:31 ◼ ► that we'll link. You can see his numbers are slightly different than mine. Cause again, when
01:38:35 ◼ ► you look up geek bench stuff, there's lots of individual, there's you, you run the geek
01:38:38 ◼ ► bench app and you upload your results to the website and tons of people doing that. You get
01:38:43 ◼ ► wildly varying numbers, depending on what was going on in their system, what temperature things
01:38:50 ◼ ► like, I don't know how they do it. They average it or something. They've published like top
01:38:54 ◼ ► charts where, you know, organized by machine and CPU. And that's where I was pulling mine
01:38:59 ◼ ► from. And I don't know if Jason's numbers are slightly different, but here's what it boils
01:39:02 ◼ ► down to. This thing for single core is actually better than the M1. And for multi-core and GPU,
01:39:09 ◼ ► it's about the same as the M1. So if you want to characterize, what is it going to be like
01:39:13 ◼ ► to use a Mac with the A18 Pro? The specs say from geek bench, which again is just a benchmark
01:39:19 ◼ ► or whatever that the specs say that it should be roughly like using an M1 that is a little
01:39:25 ◼ ► bit peppier in single core and single core does make a difference for people just doing, you
01:39:30 ◼ ► know, dorking around on their computer and doing stuff because the, you know, the main thread
01:39:33 ◼ ► in your application, the thing you're interacting with, that's probably that one single thread
01:39:38 ◼ ► is probably going to be in a power core because it's an interactive thread and all this other
01:39:46 ◼ ► than it is in the M1 by, by a significant amount. 19% is not like within the range of variability
01:39:52 ◼ ► of geek bench scores. So that's good. Now there are some unknowns as we get to more of the specs
01:39:57 ◼ ► of here, like, okay, but there's more to an SOC's performance than just CPU, GPU, single core,
01:40:02 ◼ ► multi-core. Like there's more to it than that. There's more of the whole system performance.
01:40:05 ◼ ► So we'll have to wait until somebody gets one of these and starts actually benchmarking
01:40:09 ◼ ► it to know, because the phone is not a good stand-in in other ways, but just pure CPU benchmarks.
01:40:15 ◼ ► That's how I would characterize the A18 Pro is it's M1-ish. Um, RAM is eight gigs. There's
01:40:22 ◼ ► no choice. No other option. It's just eight gigs is eight gigs. Uh, you got to save money
01:40:27 ◼ ► somewhere, but like, I imagine that the main reason it's eight gigs is I don't think the A18 Pro
01:40:32 ◼ ► can handle more than 18, eight gigs. I don't think it's ever shipped with more than eight gigs. I
01:40:38 ◼ ► don't, I guess they didn't modify it. Like, so I'm guessing, I mean, not saying they wouldn't have
01:40:42 ◼ ► gone eight gig anyway, but they did just bump everybody up to 16, including the M1 MacBook Air.
01:40:48 ◼ ► Uh, they bumped up that configuration as well and not the Walmart one, but, um, this has eight gigs and I
01:40:54 ◼ ► don't think they're trying to do it to be stingy. I just think like you can't do more than that with
01:41:00 ◼ ► the A18 Pro. The A19 Pro I think can do 12. Yes. So I suspect if you do see a bump in this, like next
01:41:07 ◼ ► year or the year after or whatever, next time they make a new MacBook Neo with an A19 Pro in it, I bet
01:41:13 ◼ ► it will have 12 and not 16, but we'll see. But like, if you're disappointed about the RAM, I think it is a
01:41:19 ◼ ► side effect of Apple deciding to make a low cost MacBook and essentially being forced to use one
01:41:28 ◼ ► of the chips that already exists. And that chip was never really designed to be a Mac chip. So
01:41:32 ◼ ► either doesn't support more than eight gigs or it's difficult to get it to support more than eight
01:41:36 ◼ ► gigs. And that topic will come up in a little bit when we talk about more things, memory bandwidth,
01:41:40 ◼ ► 60 gigs per second, which is one 10th as fast as the top spec in five max to characterize that,
01:41:47 ◼ ► but it is 12.5%, uh, slower than the M1. So it is again, ballpark, how much memory bandwidth does this
01:41:55 ◼ ► have? It has M1 ish memory bandwidth, a little bit less, a little bit less. Um, SSDs is a real wildcard
01:42:01 ◼ ► for me and benchmarks. Yeah. So it comes to a 256 or 512 with some important differences. We'll get
01:42:05 ◼ ► through in a second. I don't know what the SSD speeds are going to be like. Cause honestly,
01:42:08 ◼ ► I don't know what the SSD speeds are like in phones. And I imagine the A18 pros interface to
01:42:15 ◼ ► storage is the bottleneck here. Like however fast an A18 pro can talk to storage. That's how fast this
01:42:22 ◼ ► is going to go. Even though max, like any of the M chips are probably designed with faster storage,
01:42:26 ◼ ► especially like the modern ones are designed with faster and faster access to storage, whether it's
01:42:32 ◼ ► higher clock speed or wider buses or both, we'll have to see what the SSD performance is like
01:42:38 ◼ ► on the A18 pro. Cause I don't know how to, how to like handicap that. So like if your workload,
01:42:44 ◼ ► uh, depends a lot on, you know, big sequential reads of high bandwidth stuff, maybe it won't perform
01:42:50 ◼ ► like an M1 for you, but if it doesn't need to do that and it's just like CPU bound, it should perform
01:42:56 ◼ ► kind of like an M1 to you. I mean, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you know what RAM
01:43:01 ◼ ► is, if you know what memory bandwidth is, and if you know what SSD performance is, this is probably
01:43:09 ◼ ► not a computer that's really targeted at you. Uh, and that's fine. Like when you look at like, you
01:43:15 ◼ ► know, this is, this is a, an iPhone chip performing very competitively, like in, in certain ways, very
01:43:23 ◼ ► competitively. Um, and in certain ways, of course it's restricted and lower, but that really says a lot
01:43:28 ◼ ► about the iPhone. It's like the, the iPhone can do a lot here. Like if, if the power that we're
01:43:34 ◼ ► carrying in our pockets every day is enough to run like a, uh, a somewhat competitive, like entire
01:43:42 ◼ ► laptop, that's amazing. It's also kind of amazing to think like if you like, you know, build and run
01:43:48 ◼ ► from Xcode on this computer to an iPhone 17 pro, the phone that you're running it on is going to be
01:43:57 ◼ ► faster than the computer you're building it with. Well, keep in mind that if you buy one of the new
01:44:01 ◼ ► displays, either one, it has a more powerful SOC. Oh gosh. Because the studio display has an A19 and
01:44:09 ◼ ► the studio display XDR has an A19 pro and this is an A18 pro. So yes, if you buy this and attach it to
01:44:14 ◼ ► one of those external monitors, which it will drive, um, yeah, your monitor has a better SOC.
01:44:20 ◼ ► I wonder if it has more RAM too. Yeah, but you could buy like seven of these for the cost of one
01:44:24 ◼ ► of those monitors. Yes, that, that is definitely true. All right. So size wise, if you were hoping
01:44:29 ◼ ► for the return of the MacBook one, and yes, many people point out the MacBook Neo is an anagram of
01:44:33 ◼ ► MacBook one. Uh, it doesn't have one port, which we'll get to in a little bit, but B, this is not
01:44:38 ◼ ► a ridiculously skinny laptop. It is essentially MacBook air sized. It is actually 1.5 millimeters
01:44:44 ◼ ► thicker than the MacBook air. And it is six millimeters, uh, less wide and eight millimeters
01:44:50 ◼ ► less deep, but it is actually thicker. So it is not a skinny little thing. It is not a wedge. It is not
01:44:55 ◼ ► smaller than that. But just again, think of this as essentially MacBook air sized a little bit smaller.
01:45:00 ◼ ► Um, the weight is exactly the same as the MacBook air. So if you wanted a two pound thing, this ain't it.
01:45:06 ◼ ► It's 2.7 pounds. Okay. I have some questions about the weight because, okay, this is roughly the same
01:45:13 ◼ ► size computer as the MacBook air. It's a little bit smaller. Yeah. A little bit, but it barely
01:45:18 ◼ ► smaller. It is thicker. Yeah. But so it's a roughly a MacBook air 13 inch sized computer. It is exactly
01:45:25 ◼ ► the same weight as the MacBook air. It has many of the same types of things in it as a MacBook air,
01:45:31 ◼ ► except it has a much smaller battery and batteries are heavy. Why is it the same weight?
01:45:40 ◼ ► I, my guess, here's my guess. Um, one of the rumors that they talked about this Apple alluded to it
01:45:46 ◼ ► vaguely in their video is that they have come up with a less expensive way to make a aluminum unibody
01:45:51 ◼ ► chassis. And it's possible that less expensive way does not remove all the material that could
01:45:57 ◼ ► be a move re removed for the most efficient weight. That's my guess. Oh, so like thicker aluminum,
01:46:03 ◼ ► basically. Yeah. Like, cause like when you're the more expensive one, like, you know, there's a bunch
01:46:08 ◼ ► of aluminum there that's not serving a role structurally and removing every ounce of that may require more
01:46:12 ◼ ► machining and precision and so on and so forth. And whatever the new technique is that I don't remember
01:46:17 ◼ ► the details of the rumors or this is just rumors of like, they've found a way to make a unibody
01:46:22 ◼ ► aluminum construction for less money than like the M1 MacBook air. That's my only guess. Cause
01:46:27 ◼ ► you're right. The battery is less. That's a pretty good guess. Um, the, the display, no notch, which I
01:46:32 ◼ ► like, like, I feel like that's an advantage over the MacBook air. I mean, it's because they have big
01:46:37 ◼ ► bezels around the screen. Like that's what it comes down to, but you know, no notch. If you didn't like
01:46:41 ◼ ► the notch, just don't have one. Um, it's a 13 inch IPS LCD, uh, as opposed, I think the MacBook
01:46:47 ◼ ► air is 30.6 inches. Uh, the resolution it's 219 pixels. The resolution is actually less than the
01:46:54 ◼ ► MacBook air. It's 24 0 8 by 15 0 6 versus 25 60 by 16 64. It is also by the way, significantly less
01:47:01 ◼ ► than the iPhone 16 pro max that this came from the iPhone 16. Remember the iPhone 16 pro max is 3X
01:47:08 ◼ ► instead of 2X. The iPhone 16 pro max is 28 68 by 13 20 at 460 PPI. So if you're worried, like, how is
01:47:14 ◼ ► this phone chip going to drive the display? It has so many pixels. Don't worry about it. The phone that it
01:47:19 ◼ ► came from has more pixels. That's awesome. It's 500 nits. Uh, it's only sRGB. So no P3, no true tone,
01:47:26 ◼ ► no ambient light sensor. Uh, the ports, this is where the a 19, uh, 18 pro comes in again. It has
01:47:33 ◼ ► one USB three that does 10 gigabits per second for charging and display port, but it can do one display
01:47:38 ◼ ► at four. I guess it can't do a 6k. It has one external display at 4k at 60. So it couldn't do the 6k
01:47:42 ◼ ► display, but it can do the 4k display. It can't do the 5k display either, which is a bummer anyway.
01:47:46 ◼ ► And then the other port, thank God it has more than one. So it is not a MacBook one. The other port,
01:47:51 ◼ ► which is also USB C is USB two at 480 megabits per second. And why, why the hell does it have
01:47:57 ◼ ► a USB three port and a USB two port? Because that I think is what the a 18 pro can support. I think
01:48:06 ◼ ► Gruber mentioned this in one of his things I've, or someone, he, he, he said in his piece that he
01:48:10 ◼ ► actually asked somebody in Apple PR and they, they basically said like, it was really hard to even
01:48:14 ◼ ► get that port in there. They could like the, in other words saying like, normally they expect to
01:48:19 ◼ ► have one port as a phone chip. So you have one port in the phone, right? Just to get the second USB
01:48:25 ◼ ► port at all. I think they probably had to add like another USB controller somewhere to the board and
01:48:29 ◼ ► wire it in. And that was a pain. And so, yes, Apple did this to themselves, but like, again, when the
01:48:35 ◼ ► a 18 pro was made there, I don't think there was any expectation that this ship would appear in a Mac.
01:48:39 ◼ ► It is ill suited to be in a Mac based on the peripheral stuff. And so it is disappointing.
01:48:45 ◼ ► I mean, come on USB two, like what century is this? It's ridiculous, but would you rather only have
01:48:50 ◼ ► one port? I sure as hell wouldn't. So there is the good port, the quote unquote good port, which is
01:48:55 ◼ ► only USB three at 10 gigabits. And then there is the horrendously slow port, but it's still better to
01:49:01 ◼ ► have two ports because there is no mag safe. These two ports are it. Well, you know, charge in one of
01:49:05 ◼ ► them connect a peripheral and another when the a 19 or a 20 or whatever powered version of the
01:49:13 ◼ ► MacBook Neo comes out. I'll bet these changes are less bad or I'm hoping in the future. Apple says,
01:49:19 ◼ ► OK, if this product is a hit, we need to make chips that we know will work in this. This is a
01:49:23 ◼ ► disappointing technical thing, but it's not because Apple is being mean to you or being cheap. I just
01:49:29 ◼ ► think they didn't have a way to do this because this was never designed to be a Mac chip. And people
01:49:34 ◼ ► think that manifests like, oh, it was never designed to be a Mac chip. Its performance will be bad. It's
01:49:37 ◼ ► not the performance. It's stuff like this, like how many ports can you support? How many external
01:49:41 ◼ ► displays? Because those are not important things for a phone that has one hole in the bottom of it
01:49:47 ◼ ► and generally doesn't spend a lot of time hooked up to external displays. So it is what it is.
01:49:52 ◼ ► Headphone port, it does have that. It doesn't support high impedance headphones like the MacBook Air
01:49:57 ◼ ► does. Again, no mag safe. Also, the headphone port placement is a little odd. It's really far down.
01:50:03 ◼ ► Like it's very close to your wrists. Yeah, I want to see what the inside of this thing looks like.
01:50:07 ◼ ► I mean, the speakers are weird, too. The speakers are side firing and they're towards the front.
01:50:11 ◼ ► Yeah, they're also. Yeah, they're right there, too. It's yeah. So I'm I really I think what we are
01:50:16 ◼ ► seeing here with some of these decisions is like, you know, Apple went all out designing this from
01:50:21 ◼ ► scratch to be significantly less money. And there's all this stuff like, you know, like case design
01:50:27 ◼ ► that we don't even really think about as like possible ways to save weight because we don't know
01:50:31 ◼ ► how to manufacture of this kind of stuff. But there's all sorts of little details like this that are like
01:50:42 ◼ ► Yeah, I wonder if the side firing speakers like like because if you're gonna like if you're gonna save money on the speakers,
01:50:47 ◼ ► maybe use fewer speakers, lower quality speakers, but having them be side firing and towards you to like sort of bounce off
01:50:53 ◼ ► the surface like I like I feel like the placement is very intentional to essentially make the speakers sound better
01:50:58 ◼ ► like for if we're gonna use these speakers and we're gonna put them in this laptop actually shooting them out of the sides
01:51:04 ◼ ► from the front is the best way to do it because if we had put them like facing up and bouncing off the screen or whatever
01:51:13 ◼ ► and is actually the best place to put these speakers which are presumably less expensive and fewer speakers.
01:51:19 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean we'll see because like I because what I'm I got I got out my old M2 MacBook Air here
01:51:23 ◼ ► and I'm pretty sure it's fire speakers at the screen hinge, right? Like out of the screen hinge towards the screen.
01:51:30 ◼ ► But like one of one of the major differences between the MacBook Air and the 14-inch MacBook Pro
01:51:40 ◼ ► It's like it's such a difference and I wonder like are they like from from the reviewers that that were there at Apple's event today
01:51:46 ◼ ► You can't hear anything in that room. Yeah, but so far the impression is the speakers are decent, you know
01:51:50 ◼ ► Like for what they are. Yeah, I think the comparison is like compared to the speakers you would get in a similarly placed PC laptop. They're better
01:52:00 ◼ ► The arrangement inside of these maybe that maybe that's one of the things they were able to do with a smaller battery
01:52:06 ◼ ► Is move the speakers into the wrist rest because before like the battery would be under that entire palm rest area
01:52:12 ◼ ► I know the batteries are pretty the speakers are pretty skinny like in the iFixit teardowns
01:52:16 ◼ ► Like even the MacBook Pro they're skinny. I don't want to wait to see when people tear this down
01:52:24 ◼ ► I'm i'm guessing this layout is very intentional and other positions would be worse but
01:52:52 ◼ ► Put it in the other one. I don't think they're labeled in any way. They just they look identical
01:53:02 ◼ ► It has wi-fi 6e and bluetooth 6 so that the standards are you know fine. It's not wi-fi 7, but whatever
01:53:24 ◼ ► It's a little green light that you know turns on next to the camera when the camera is recording instead
01:53:36 ◼ ► I don't know about the security implications of that because the apple used to brag about how
01:53:40 ◼ ► There's no way in software. You can disable the green light. Obviously, there's definitely a way in software where you can disable the thing in the menu bar
01:53:47 ◼ ► I would presume although maybe a system integrity protection and all sorts of stuff presents it tries to stop that but we'll see
01:53:58 ◼ ► Does not support spatial audio with dynamic head tracking and air pods, which is fine with me because I hate that feature
01:54:09 ◼ ► Um, the battery as marco said is 36.5 which is 32 percent smaller than the macbook air is 53.8
01:54:16 ◼ ► So that is a big read because again, this is the same size computer and there's essentially a third less battery in it
01:54:21 ◼ ► So that is big and why is there a third less battery in it a because it seems like they could for power and be
01:54:27 ◼ ► Smaller batteries cost us money. I mean, that's what it comes like that's what it comes down
01:54:36 ◼ ► Yeah, we'll say if it's thicker it could be like millimeters, but we'll see we'll see what it looks like when they tear it down
01:54:56 ◼ ► The battery life still seems acceptable. So 16 hours for video streaming and 11 hours for wireless web
01:55:02 ◼ ► But again, if you were hoping this was going to be either an ultra thin laptop or a laptop that had insane battery life
01:55:19 ◼ ► So that 20 watt charger will supply i'm assuming will supply power to this thing as fast as it is willing to take it
01:55:26 ◼ ► So don't bother trying to get a higher wattage charger. It seems like it's not going to charge it any faster
01:55:48 ◼ ► And as apple says lock and wake your screen and power your laptop on and off with the lock key
01:55:58 ◼ ► And as many people pointed out if you're buying these for schools, for example touch id is pointless in schools for the most part
01:56:03 ◼ ► Unless it's a one-to-one program and even then I don't think the kids are going to register their fingerprints or whatever
01:56:07 ◼ ► So it is not unreasonable to lack touch id as someone who's sitting in front of a computer that right now that does not have touch id
01:56:20 ◼ ► Anyway for if you want the basest of base models the 256 gig version of of this macbook neo
01:56:46 ◼ ► It does indeed move like like in the olden days when the trackpad used to move when you press them
01:57:04 ◼ ► Um, i've seen people say that it also doesn't support force touch. I'm not sure what they mean
01:57:12 ◼ ► Or do they mean like the thing where you press hard and it knows that you're pressing harder?
01:57:27 ◼ ► It was like where you get what do you what is that bound to by default is like dictionary lookup or something or
01:57:31 ◼ ► On words, it's a dictionary lookup. I forget what it is in other places, but yes, I'm doing it right now, you know
01:57:54 ◼ ► Is pink enough that even I a person who has a hard time seeing pinks can tell you it's pink
01:57:58 ◼ ► Indigo sort of like the macbook airs midnight color lightened up a few notches and citrus is a bright yellow gold that nobody's going to mistake for some other apple laptop
01:58:30 ◼ ► There's no green. That's my disappointment, but you know, uh, the colors are visible to the naked eye
01:58:39 ◼ ► It is kind of funny like if you configure the like if you go into like the macbook compare
01:58:42 ◼ ► Specs page on their on their website and you set up like a macbook neo a macbook pro and a macbook air
01:58:58 ◼ ► It's like, you know, if you if you look at like cars, you know, the really really cheap car model of a model line
01:59:05 ◼ ► Is like only available in white right and then like, you know, you go a little bit higher and it's like, okay, you can get a few more colors here
01:59:14 ◼ ► The the macbook lineup is the opposite like the nicer the mac computer is the fewer color options you have
01:59:29 ◼ ► And the color coordinated keyboards and feet like it's it's kind of hard to sell tell in the pictures because as people point out
01:59:34 ◼ ► Like white balance adjusting of your eyes wise you're like well all the keyboards are white, aren't they?
01:59:39 ◼ ► Laptop has a pink keyboard the the citrus or yellowish citrus laptop has a citrus keyboard
01:59:45 ◼ ► It's easier to tell on the indigo one because that's very dark and you can see that it has a darker keyboard
01:59:48 ◼ ► But and also the rubber feet that are on the bottom. They're not black all the rubber feet on the macbook air
01:59:56 ◼ ► So they match so that's a nice touch. That's where some of the money went and as jason snell points out
02:00:00 ◼ ► The apple logo on the back of the screen is not a shiny logo, but it's like embossed like inset
02:00:06 ◼ ► And the the the shiny logos the way those are done and apple talks about this a lot in their videos
02:00:21 ◼ ► Material that shiny thing is inlaid into there and they have to make it obviously like a wood inlay
02:00:28 ◼ ► This the hole to the thing you're putting in the hole. So it's seamless so you don't see a gap around any part of it
02:00:33 ◼ ► Oh my god, and that's hard to do and they do it. That's how they make that. Yeah, I don't know if I knew that
02:00:41 ◼ ► But I remember they had a video about it because what they have to do like they're you know
02:00:49 ◼ ► And then they have the shiny apple logos that are going to them and there's variability and they essentially have to match up pairs
02:00:59 ◼ ► You know like because that's that's what you have to do because there are tolerances and they want them to fit exactly
02:01:03 ◼ ► And it's not like you you know, so you just have you get a very but you get a distribution curve of
02:01:07 ◼ ► The holes and you get a distribution curve of the inserts and then you just match them up and that is time consuming and expensive
02:01:17 ◼ ► Carve away a little bit of material and there's your apple logo and that's why these are not shiny but are instead inset
02:01:23 ◼ ► I would assume that is a cost saving measure and not so much the cost of the shiny insert
02:01:28 ◼ ► But the cost of like the time and labor to do that expensive and it's computer control like the matching
02:01:33 ◼ ► It's not humans like holding it up and trying to put it in or whatever, but like that's expensive
02:01:49 ◼ ► Uh, and it's it shows all the different colors really well and and the way they like edited it with the vfx and stuff
02:01:57 ◼ ► Environment on this one 60% recycled content the highest percentage of any apple product 90% recycled aluminum 100% recycled cobalt in the battery
02:02:11 ◼ ► For the 256 no touch id model or 499 for education and for the one with touch id and a 512 gig ssd. It's 699
02:02:25 ◼ ► But like when we have that big long session of like where can you remove price from this thing?
02:02:31 ◼ ► They could place we didn't even think of like did you think removing the indicator light from the from the camera?
02:02:37 ◼ ► Apparently that saves money because you don't have to deal with that circuitry. You don't have another light
02:02:44 ◼ ► I don't think we would have guessed that but in hindsight it makes some sense because in some context
02:02:56 ◼ ► Everything they could you know, just they didn't just get it from one big place because again the like the soc
02:03:01 ◼ ► Like how much cheaper are we talking about this or how much cheaper is an a team pro than an m1?
02:03:10 ◼ ► You need to get the cost from everywhere and they got it from everywhere and I think unlike the 16e the cost they removed here
02:03:25 ◼ ► This makes it a garbage laptop the closest I would come to say is the one that may be regretful is the uh
02:03:34 ◼ ► But that really feels like apple probably was like oh, I wish we didn't have to do this because you know that the niceness of the trackpads
02:03:39 ◼ ► Is one of the defining characteristics of an apple laptop. It just feels so nice. It works so well
02:03:57 ◼ ► It opens up a little gap and maybe a crumb from your scone falls onto the trackpad and it goes
02:04:08 ◼ ► I do wonder how many people are going to be taking these apart and finding crumbs in that part of the computer
02:04:14 ◼ ► But now they're going to be under the trackpad too because it opens up a little crack when you click it or whatever
02:04:20 ◼ ► The limitations inherent in the a18 pro which i'm not going to say is an apple's fault because they made this computer
02:04:45 ◼ ► And there's nothing apple could really do about it short of not short of not rolling out this computer until it has an a
02:04:57 ◼ ► Yeah, I I think this is a really solid computer for people who don't care about computers and I think that comes across very dismissive and I don't mean it that way at all
02:05:20 ◼ ► Okay, and I think like you had said john most of the trade-offs I made I think make a lot of sense
02:05:27 ◼ ► It would bum me out to have this computer as a primary computer, but I tell you what as a like
02:05:37 ◼ ► This would fit the bill pretty nicely and if you price out an m or a modern ipad pro with keyboard because for me
02:05:46 ◼ ► It's like two or three times the price. Well, I guess you wouldn't have to have you're gonna have one of these in each room, right?
02:05:52 ◼ ► I mean you wouldn't have to have an ipad pro to be fair, but to have an ipad with a nice keyboard with the cantilevered keyboard
02:05:57 ◼ ► The keyboard alone is like 400 bucks. Somebody said this on on mass. Yeah, 350. I think something like that's ridiculous
02:06:10 ◼ ► I mean my yeah, I believe that and it was I think it was at the bottom of gruber's post to like
02:06:28 ◼ ► I get okay fair less less so on the ipad pro much more so on the magic keyboard like like the magic keyboard
02:06:39 ◼ ► But yeah, that doesn't have a lot of computing power in the keyboard and it's just a plastic and then it's not even like they're super durable because
02:06:45 ◼ ► At various times the ipad keyboards have like fallen apart after several years. So that's a tough product
02:06:53 ◼ ► To to think about this because the apple is rolling out this line of low-cost laptops and fun colors
02:06:58 ◼ ► They're trying to go down market. We can we feel like we can feel the laptop at a lower price that is still a good product and here
02:07:18 ◼ ► They just you know, they gave it to walmart to sell when they stopped sort of selling it themselves
02:07:23 ◼ ► Here are some comparisons here are the ways in which the neo is better than the m1 macbook air
02:07:46 ◼ ► It is 50 cheaper than the walmart one for the 256 gig model and you can actually buy it and it's in stock
02:08:07 ◼ ► I think maybe they're just going to sell through them because walmart will be selling the neo
02:08:22 ◼ ► It has true tone with an ambient light sensor its screen is 0.3 inches bigger diagonally and it has about a half a million more pixels
02:08:51 ◼ ► It's just that they took what was essentially the best macbook air that they had ever introduced when the m1 came out
02:09:09 ◼ ► As a massively depreciated ev for the multiple years old and you tell you can tell like when you look at the m1 macbook air
02:09:30 ◼ ► That is a big difference in terms of bandwidth and usability if you care about the ports p3
02:09:38 ◼ ► Well, it wasn't always a walmart laptop when it was introduced having p3 color was table stakes for what was then the highest end macbook air ever made
02:09:48 ◼ ► Um, but time marches on that's why the neo has a better camera than this thing does right
02:10:01 ◼ ► So like it's not a slam dunk in either direction. It depends on what of those things you care about
02:10:17 ◼ ► It had a case redesign. Yeah, that's right and the macbook air m2 and forward case feels fantastic
02:10:23 ◼ ► It is delightful to pick up and hold. I think it is a huge tactile upgrade from an anesthetic upgrade from the m1 family
02:10:33 ◼ ► I kind of like the wedge like I see arguments for both because I do have I have you know
02:10:50 ◼ ► But I do kind of like the wedge in some ways and to be clear and you know the the neo is not identical to the macbook air case
02:10:56 ◼ ► It is a little bit thicker, you know, so yeah, it's a little it's a little bit different
02:10:58 ◼ ► It's roughly it's similar. It's the biggest difference is like it's 13 inch screen versus 13.6
02:11:13 ◼ ► It looked old it felt old it was old and I always had that kind of that question in my mind of like
02:11:20 ◼ ► How long first of all how long are they going to be selling this and then second of all like could could you tell someone
02:11:32 ◼ ► Like I was always worried about that kind of thing where like this is now a current production model. It's a new model
02:11:37 ◼ ► Well, that's that's a that's the thing that people worry about with the a team pro as well
02:11:41 ◼ ► Like obviously it's a concern with the m1 especially since the n1 doesn't have like all like the uh
02:11:45 ◼ ► The more advanced neural engines and various other things in the gpu cores and crap like that
02:11:48 ◼ ► But people are worried already about the a team pro they're like how long will mac os support?
02:11:54 ◼ ► The a team pro because even though it is a newly introduced computer it is an older chip and it's not really designed to be a mac chips
02:12:04 ◼ ► But like is there going to be like two versions of mac os for now from now they're going to be like, oh, yeah
02:12:17 ◼ ► So the reason I think it's not a slam dunk because like I said the the m1 is your used your used luxury car
02:12:32 ◼ ► That the neo has one hour better battery life because I always think of the m1 as having amazing battery life
02:12:50 ◼ ► And so and of course you've had many efficiency gains and in both the physical design of the chip and also like the the like, you know
02:12:56 ◼ ► Cleverness of the chip like, you know, like the the efficiency of the cores is is higher now, too
02:13:08 ◼ ► Um, and I and I think by the way and for anybody out there thinking like should I get this instead of a macbook air for my like, you know
02:13:18 ◼ ► Little like lacks of niceties that I think you might notice if you are accustomed to other macs
02:13:29 ◼ ► But if you're coming from other macs the lack of certain things like if you've always had backlit keyboards and you suddenly don't like that kind of thing
02:13:43 ◼ ► Is the lack of the ambient light sensor because what that means you open this thing up no matter where you are and boom
02:13:48 ◼ ► It blasts you with like whatever your screen setting was when you were in brighter light when you know
02:14:05 ◼ ► This to pcs in the similar price range people keep saying this is apple trying to take on chromebooks
02:14:11 ◼ ► I don't think that's significant chromebooks don't cost six hundred dollars no and and like if you're going to try to tackle chromebooks in schools
02:14:31 ◼ ► Integration with google's classroom crap. Yeah, like there's a lot of other factors that schools
02:14:42 ◼ ► So it is partly about cost not entirely about cost and apple is to be fair apple is not mentioning education
02:14:47 ◼ ► In the marketing for this product anywhere that i've seen like they have education pricing for all their computers like just because they
02:14:55 ◼ ► They're at their videos are not like we see a children everyone every child will have one of these now
02:15:00 ◼ ► They're just trying to sell it to consumers. Yeah, exactly like they're they're going to sell it to students
02:15:12 ◼ ► But not by the school the school is going to keep doing whatever the school was doing before
02:15:16 ◼ ► um, sir, you know, i'm sure you know, like like when when our kid was when we were living on fire island
02:15:25 ◼ ► Um, the fire island school was very well funded and so every kid gary every kid there got a macbook air
02:15:35 ◼ ► I'm sure many of those will switch to these because they're a lot cheaper. That's great
02:15:38 ◼ ► But if you know for schools that were already buying the 200 chromebooks, they're not going to these but anyway overall like I think
02:15:59 ◼ ► Was an experiment I think and as we've discussed like that was never designed to be a super cheap
02:16:07 ◼ ► That was designed to be a medium cheap computer that was never designed to be a super cheap computer
02:16:16 ◼ ► This is a total shift in strategy. This is very much like the approach apple took with the iphone 17e
02:16:20 ◼ ► Versus the old se's which were like regular iphones that were kind of cut down after the fact
02:16:47 ◼ ► 5 so this is yeah, wasn't it just a 5 with a plastic case like that was the only it wasn't just a 5 with the plastic case
02:16:53 ◼ ► But the plastic case is the whole phone like they really it's a really was significant redesign for a cheaper phone
02:17:16 ◼ ► Well, we want it to be like five or six hundred dollars, but there's no way it'll be that cheap
02:17:20 ◼ ► It'll be seven or eight hundred dollars and no it's six hundred dollars like that's great
02:17:28 ◼ ► Over time i'm sure we'll see these like get you know put on sale here and there 50 bucks off
02:17:33 ◼ ► Oh this weekend costco has it for 100 bucks off like, you know, we're gonna see that kind of stuff
02:17:38 ◼ ► That's amazing and this is going to expand the market share of max and for for people who
02:17:44 ◼ ► For people who would never have considered a mac when it was a thousand eleven hundred dollars
02:17:51 ◼ ► Many more of them will consider it at six hundred dollars or on sale on black friday at five hundred dollars and like
02:18:04 ◼ ► Start you know over time. I guess inflation will eventually push this price up but like
02:18:19 ◼ ► Um, like you know, it starts out at a certain price then like it fluctuates here and there with updates
02:18:47 ◼ ► So this is and and the walmart one was kind of like apple kind of like dumping old stock
02:18:53 ◼ ► Quietly through some other brand like they did like they didn't want to touch it like brand wise
02:18:59 ◼ ► They didn't want people to know about it. Really. They just kind of were kind of quietly dumping the stuff over here
02:19:06 ◼ ► Whatever the sales of the m of the walmart m1 macbook air were which were probably not terrible
02:19:11 ◼ ► Um, but whatever those sales were it's going to be much more now because now it's going to be available through
02:19:20 ◼ ► Like all their resellers all of the apples all of apple's own stores and direct channels their website like they're going to be promoting it
02:19:29 ◼ ► Like the the m1 macbook air the apple never promoted apple like wanted that as quiet as possible
02:19:34 ◼ ► This they are loudly promoting so a lot of people are going to see this they're making a splash the colors
02:20:01 ◼ ► The only other thing i'll say is I wish they would do a mac mini like this like a really really cheap mac mini
02:20:06 ◼ ► That is not quite as mainstream a product like as a lot of jason has been pointing this out
02:20:11 ◼ ► Like the mac mini had previously held the crown for the cheapest mac in terms of absolute dollar numbers
02:20:22 ◼ ► You have to buy it doesn't even come with a mouse and a keyboard let alone a screen like it is not a complete system
02:20:29 ◼ ► I think it was like 4.99 was the lowest it ever was just selfishly like, you know, so many people buy mac minis
02:20:37 ◼ ► File servers or you know more recently running ai agents or whatever but like there's a lot of people who like if if your mac mini
02:20:49 ◼ ► Give me a weird mustard colored mac mini because people put their mac minis where they're not even visible
02:21:02 ◼ ► First of all, I believe it will be perceived as the smallest laptop because people don't notice a thickness change of
02:21:08 ◼ ► Hat one and a half millimeters, but they do notice length and width wise and I know we're like, oh, it's a smaller screen 13 inch versus 13.6
02:21:14 ◼ ► But that makes the laptop physically smaller and if you're the one the type of person who's like
02:21:24 ◼ ► Like you're in the market for something like the neo anyway, because you're like i'm not a computer person
02:21:31 ◼ ► It'll it will so clearly be the most attractive to you product in the store because you're like
02:21:43 ◼ ► It's like going into a car lot and seeing a cute pink convertible and that one costs less than all the other cars
02:21:49 ◼ ► All the other cars are giant silver four-door sedans. You're like, why would anyone buy one of those?
02:21:54 ◼ ► Like it's a cute pink convertible and like well, you don't understand the cute pink convertible
02:22:04 ◼ ► It's just me and like my backpack and I want to go off to school and this is half the price
02:22:12 ◼ ► For the people who are in the market for this. It's not like they're like, oh, I guess I have to guess this one
02:22:25 ◼ ► Computers don't understand is like can you imagine someone not only not caring about computer specs
02:22:30 ◼ ► But finding them a detriment and not understanding what anyone would ever pay for that like
02:22:39 ◼ ► And if you sit there and explain to them like the differences that we just went through like here
02:22:51 ◼ ► That's like they don't like even though there is a difference with the haptic trackpad and like the ambient light sensor
02:22:56 ◼ ► If they're not used to having a haptic trackpad and an apple quality haptic trackpad and ambient light sensor on their pc laptops
02:23:09 ◼ ► You know, this is the great thing about the neo and the great thing about chromebooks for google
02:23:17 ◼ ► As they become older professionals and maybe like, you know, this is my third apple laptop
02:23:24 ◼ ► They're they're gonna notice. Oh, no, this trackpad is actually a little bit nicer and oh having an ambient
02:23:29 ◼ ► They won't know an ambient light sensor is but like oh, this one doesn't blast my eyes out like
02:23:32 ◼ ► Just like getting a bigger screen you will because you become more accustomed to the better thing
02:23:36 ◼ ► But people could spend years just using the neo and be perfectly satisfied with it until and unless
02:23:42 ◼ ► Their needs change or their budgets change. So I think this is going to be an extremely successful product assuming there are no
02:23:51 ◼ ► No gates I guess like trackpad gate where all the trackpads break because apple's not used to making ones that move or like some crap like that
02:23:59 ◼ ► you know going down like I think the m1 macbook air walmart has probably been really successful apple
02:24:11 ◼ ► And they are and I think this will be I think so will sell incredibly well and people are asking like who is this who can use this?
02:24:34 ◼ ► Some major that wouldn't require lots of computing power. My son was a computer science major and as part of his classes
02:24:43 ◼ ► And with an 8 gig machine if you're running like a linux vm plus running a bunch of python stuff locally
02:24:57 ◼ ► I'm saying he couldn't use it, but i'm saying the m4 m2 macbook air was a better fit for his needs
02:25:01 ◼ ► But that's only because he was a computer science major doing computer science crap on his computer pretty much anyone else
02:25:07 ◼ ► Can you write four years worth of papers on this? Yes. Can you browse the web forever on this? Yes
02:25:11 ◼ ► Can you do all your email like it will do all those things because you remember when you're thinking about this?
02:25:21 ◼ ► The best most powerful macbook air available and people bought it and loved it and are still buying it today all these years later
02:25:28 ◼ ► So think of it like that. Don't think of it like oh, how can I ever use a laptop with the phone chip?
02:25:33 ◼ ► like I think you know, and this is this is the beauty of this, you know, when you see those uh cost curves like how much things cost over the past like several decades
02:25:40 ◼ ► It's usually shown to show you the health care line like it's inflation adjusted dollars like
02:25:44 ◼ ► Percentage of your annual annual income like how what is how is the relative price of these things change?
02:26:00 ◼ ► Has gone through this floor because back when my parents were young buying a tv was like buying a new car
02:26:10 ◼ ► Because you can get a you can get a pretty big flat screen tv for a couple hundred bucks, right?
02:26:21 ◼ ► Leverage that but what's happening slowly, but surely is and we've seen it with smartphones is that
02:26:30 ◼ ► Basic web browsing and word processing has just been getting cheaper and cheaper because the demands of basic web browsing and word processing
02:26:38 ◼ ► Although especially web browsing has has increased it has not increased as fast as computing power has increased and I would argue for like
02:26:45 ◼ ► Basic word processing and like even like image editing that is kind of like flatlined and that most people
02:26:51 ◼ ► Never need to do any more sophisticated image editing setting aside ai stuff, which is a whole other thing
02:26:56 ◼ ► Uh, then they can do on on any recent laptop and the same thing we're text editing like you're typing and spell checking
02:27:10 ◼ ► You know as gruber was pointing out they apple used to claim and I think they were correct
02:27:20 ◼ ► They still can't but the low end of the pc market has gone so far down that there is now room below the macbook air for another computer
02:27:36 ◼ ► But like you could see someone arguing saying yeah, but it's really close right and it's still nicer
02:27:44 ◼ ► No, i'm never going to ship a mac without an ambient light sensor and a haptic trackpad now that those things exist
02:27:49 ◼ ► But I mean if whoever that was who was doing that whether it was steve jobs or somebody else
02:27:56 ◼ ► Deciding to take advantage of essentially the dividend of computing power outpacing a lot of common tasks
02:28:02 ◼ ► And go down market with the mac and I think they're going to sell a lot of them. I think it's a good idea
02:28:14 ◼ ► I think the the world has changed a lot in recent years and one of the realities that many many people like us maybe
02:28:22 ◼ ► Maybe fail to see or appreciate fully is that for most people their phone is their main computer or their primary
02:28:28 ◼ ► You know or their best computer or their most used computer and might have more pixels than this computer
02:28:37 ◼ ► Is basically what can people do on their phones and instead of thinking about this as like a cut down
02:28:47 ◼ ► It's a phone with a keyboard trackpad and big screen and that's great and a giant battery
02:28:52 ◼ ► Yeah, exactly and that's and that's going to be wonderful like that because that actually is what most people need and use and then also
02:29:00 ◼ ► Things moving so much into like cloud-based ai computing powering all the like where the cutting-edge stuff is right now
02:29:23 ◼ ► Are not happening with a lot of local resource processing because because there's no one has a local computer with that much ram like
02:29:30 ◼ ► You know, you can't have like hundreds of gigs of ram or whatever like that just the the compute needed to do the current hot thing
02:29:36 ◼ ► Which is ai that just doesn't exist doesn't exist on a desktop doesn't exist in a laptop
02:29:43 ◼ ► That's you know, there are lots of useful local models and apple does run them and they do useful things
02:29:50 ◼ ► of a battery-powered laptop currently that it's all server-side and your point about thin clients is true
02:29:56 ◼ ► Although I did see a thread recently of someone describing how the clawed terminal command line application works and showing the usage the
02:30:08 ◼ ► There's no reason that a thin client that uses a terminal input that just does a text, you know curses style text display
02:30:13 ◼ ► That should be able to be incredibly thin because it's just like I send text to the server
02:30:23 ◼ ► But the stats they showed were not low because they had found this very convoluted way to do a command line application
02:30:33 ◼ ► But they're they're like they're running a react app behind the scene and rendering to a 2d backing buffer and pixel pixel diffing it
02:30:44 ◼ ► Anyway, the point is they were showing like gigs of memory usage for what is essentially a node js app or whatever language it's written in
02:30:50 ◼ ► That just sends http requests to a server and gets responses and spits them because you you've all used it like it's a text
02:31:03 ◼ ► In theory and technically you are correct. I'm not sure current software practices are taking full advantage of the thinness of the client right now
02:31:16 ◼ ► Yeah, you know, they're they're going to chatgpt.com and or you know, or using their other, you know, other browser-based coding agents or whatever
02:31:24 ◼ ► Yeah, and or they're like, you know, even even people who will be using coding agents. Oh, by the way, um xcodes coding agent support does not work with 8 gigs of ram
02:31:38 ◼ ► Yeah, you can you can run the codex app also like codex has a gui app which i've actually been using
02:31:42 ◼ ► Um, and it's it does pretty much what the xcode thing does, but I think honestly a little bit better
02:32:00 ◼ ► But also that was never really rumored for this release this was always rumored to be a lower cost
02:32:11 ◼ ► Possibly, you know, we none of us have this thing yet, but it sure looks like they delivered really well on that product brief
02:32:24 ◼ ► Um, because you know everything is about cost saving this thing, but there's there's two options
02:32:34 ◼ ► Obviously that saves cost because you don't need to make lots of variety of these although apple
02:32:38 ◼ ► Has does have to make the colors and whatever ratios they have to kind of guess about that
02:32:45 ◼ ► Someone who doesn't care about computer specs now does not have a million decisions to make to buy this
02:32:54 ◼ ► Even if they don't know the differences between the cheap one and the expensive one if they don't care
02:33:00 ◼ ► Like there's literally one choice besides color and that choice is a hundred dollar difference
02:33:06 ◼ ► Like oh if you if they say why is this one hundred dollars more you start talking about and they're like, oh, never mind
02:33:26 ◼ ► Uh, you put together the six hundred dollar family of iphone device or excuse me of apple devices
02:33:32 ◼ ► The iphone 17e is six hundred dollars the ipad air with m4 is six hundred dollars and the macbook
02:33:38 ◼ ► macbook neo is six hundred and that is a tiny phone a medium-sized tablet and a kind of small laptop
02:33:50 ◼ ► Sort of spreading their products across the entire range of shapes and sizes it costs and also a testament to apple
02:34:02 ◼ ► Obviously and the iphone 17e I don't think is the cheapest phone because you can still buy like older models for less maybe but like
02:34:12 ◼ ► And all those products that we've listed here are all new newly released this week and are all pretty good
02:34:21 ◼ ► Factor delete me and masterclass and thanks to our members who support us directly you can join us at atp.fm
02:34:39 ◼ ► Uh, sorry john, uh, and it's extra topics extra extra things that we couldn't get to in a regular outline
02:34:45 ◼ ► This week in overtime. We're talking about apple's new video podcast support in apple podcasts
02:34:55 ◼ ► Um, and we're people who listen to podcasts or watch podcasts, which is probably most of you
02:35:00 ◼ ► Um, so here you can tune in atp.fm slash join to hear over time and get all of our other membership perks
02:35:48 ◼ ► So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-N-S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-
02:36:30 ◼ ► One is break containment, which is what Casey basically said, which is like, so you're on
02:36:52 ◼ ► So if you're on social media, like a Mastodon, you have people who follow you and they, they
02:36:57 ◼ ► Breaking containment means enough people retuted it or whatever that now people who have no idea
02:37:03 ◼ ► who you are and do not follow you and don't know anything about you start to see this post
02:37:21 ◼ ► There's like these little clusters, like little cities where it's like, well, here's all these
02:37:26 ◼ ► But then there are these bridges to these other circles to like, you know, I don't know what
02:37:30 ◼ ► Mastodon look like, but like the Linux people over here and the Apple people over here and
02:37:34 ◼ ► like whatever, like whatever groups they're divided up into the people in the U S here and
02:37:42 ◼ ► And it only takes like the right few people to like retweet something to cross from one
02:37:47 ◼ ► of those clusters to another, that all of a sudden a bunch of people who don't normally
02:37:54 ◼ ► And then the second phrase is context collapse, which we'll link to the Wikipedia page for the
02:37:58 ◼ ► specifically the definition in social media, which is, um, I gotta look at the Wikipedia,
02:38:03 ◼ ► but my, my definition of it is like, it's kind of like the same as breaking containment
02:38:14 ◼ ► it, like you, you think, you know, what audience you're speaking to, but when something breaks
02:38:30 ◼ ► But basically what it comes down to is people are seeing your stuff and they don't have the
02:38:39 ◼ ► They don't know that you're on a podcast where you just talked about the thing that you tooted
02:38:55 ◼ ► And so I experienced both of these just before we came to the show and it was for this toot
02:39:01 ◼ ► I mean, I, I mostly spent my time in Mastodon, but I do occasionally also post things to Blue
02:39:08 ◼ ► And often I usually have to edit it because Blue Sky's limit is slower than my Mastodon
02:39:12 ◼ ► So I have to squish things down a little bit, but like the post was what I just said in the
02:39:18 ◼ ► That was, uh, the A18 Pro and the MacBook Neo is 19% faster than the M2 Ultra and the Mac
02:39:35 ◼ ► absurd that they're still selling the Mac Pro with an M2 Ultra in it, but they're still selling
02:39:41 ◼ ► it for $7,000 when the MacBook Neo, the super duper low cost, cheapest Mac, blah, blah, blah,
02:39:56 ◼ ► What I'm trying to do is shame Apple into canceling the Mac Pro because it's embarrassing at this
02:40:19 ◼ ► And then Apple's like, nope, we're going to, we're going to sell it to the day it gets replaced
02:40:23 ◼ ► So anyway, you know, my audience saw this and was like, Oh, John complaining about the Mac
02:40:30 ◼ ► It is kind of embarrassing that it's still got the M2 Ultra and it is, you know, I'm usually
02:40:34 ◼ ► making fun of my Intel Mac Pro, which is, you know, horrendously slow by modern standards,
02:40:43 ◼ ► They're still selling it with a straight face and the MacBook Neo is statistically significantly
02:40:50 ◼ ► Now, as I said, in the specs of the show, it is smaller, slower in multi-core than the M2
02:41:02 ◼ ► But any, like, I don't have to explain this to quote unquote my audience on Mastodon because
02:41:12 ◼ ► They all know it's meant in jestiles and it's funny, it's absurd to think about these type
02:41:16 ◼ ► No one who follows me, you know, they're aware of the situation with the Mac Pro and my opinion
02:41:23 ◼ ► And if to the extent that they care about the Mac Pro at all, it's probably only as a proxy
02:41:31 ◼ ► But when something breaks containment and has context collapse, people start responding
02:41:39 ◼ ► First one that I found puzzling that I, for a while, I was like, did I make a mistake or
02:42:32 ◼ ► Like, is it just, you know, it's an anagram of MacBook one, but it looks a lot like PRO.
02:42:54 ◼ ► People who have no idea who I am or anything about Apple or anything don't have no idea what
02:43:01 ◼ ► Second thing is context collapse where a bunch of people were real angry thinking that what
02:43:07 ◼ ► I was saying is you should buy a MacBook Neo instead of a Mac pro because it's more powerful.
02:43:28 ◼ ► What I'm not saying is the MacBook Neo just came out and it's more powerful than the Apple's
02:43:34 ◼ ► Hey, Apple's most powerful computer is not the Mac pro and be no way in hell am I saying
02:43:47 ◼ ► You need to know my Mac pro enthusiasm, which you would never guess because who is a Mac pro
02:43:57 ◼ ► And lots of people were complaining about both of these things, both breaking containment,
02:44:12 ◼ ► Like, I don't know, a hundred retuits, but the people will get like a hundred thousand retuits.
02:44:19 ◼ ► We used to destroy Twitter for you because once people who have no idea who you are seeing it
02:44:27 ◼ ► So in this case, like the number of people who were so mad about this, first of all, people
02:44:38 ◼ ► I made the mistake of responding to one person and saying that it is actually similar to the
02:44:48 ◼ ► So anyway, I thought this was a good short instructive after show to just let people, you
02:44:53 ◼ ► know, people who are not familiar with this phenomenon, which is probably young people.
02:44:59 ◼ ► If something you write online or post online, some Instagram thing or whatever breaks containment
02:45:05 ◼ ► out of your little circle, you'll know it because you'll start to get replies from people that
02:45:11 ◼ ► Not necessarily worse or more hostile, but just like that, that seem confusing to you because
02:45:18 ◼ ► And it's because they don't know what your deal is because they don't have any context.
02:45:30 ◼ ► The reason I do that is I try to gauge, like, where do I get, where do I get more like people
02:45:47 ◼ ► I like everything about it, but I'm always like, well, Blue Sky is like 10 bazillion times bigger
02:46:07 ◼ ► But Mastodon is a tiny little backwater compared to the size of Blue Sky or Threads or obviously
02:46:18 ◼ ► see if people are going to engage with things and what kind of things are, you know, work
02:46:28 ◼ ► And it's still for for me, usually not particularly fun, but it's also not particularly dangerous.
02:46:33 ◼ ► It would have been much worse for me if I was anyone other than, you know, an old white