00:01:34 ◼ ► You know, I remember all those boxes, like, because restaurants were just trying to do their best to survive.
00:01:53 ◼ ► Yeah, I guess what made me pause there is it's a question of, like, is it all-time favorite or is it the thing that I use as my go-to, like, if I need a snack during the day?
00:02:16 ◼ ► Or almonds, or we have a trail mix that's got almonds and cashews and, like, dried cranberries or something in it.
00:02:34 ◼ ► I mean, yeah, we try not to, you know, try not to invest a lot in junk food, but for special occasions, maybe that.
00:02:40 ◼ ► Actually, the funny thing is, and this is a perfect segue into our next segment, which is, the funny thing is, our Friday Night Curling League has a tradition of you try to bring in an unusual snack.
00:02:51 ◼ ► So, you go to the store and you stand at the snack aisle and you try to find the weirdest new promotional flavor of Oreo.
00:03:05 ◼ ► Some people live near various, like, a Korean grocery or a more generic, like, Asian grocery in the East Bay, and they will bring in unusual for Americans chip flavors from elsewhere in the world.
00:03:48 ◼ ► That's a thing they do, because I had something else that was like that, that was the two different things where it's like, we're here, and also we made the opposite of this in the other thing, too, right?
00:04:00 ◼ ► A few days ago, I was at the train station, and I saw an ad of KFC that says, featuring gingerbread Pepsi, and I was like, no.
00:04:19 ◼ ► So the Oreo flavor, the weird Oreo flavor that I had, it's actually pretty good, is Selena Gomez.
00:04:53 ◼ ► But also, like, the problem is, and I guess they're probably leaning into it in that way,
00:05:16 ◼ ► The packaging is odd, because it's a pair of Oreo beets on the packaging, and I'm not sure
00:06:37 ◼ ► like 2004 or something, 2006, I guess, about like, and it's basically like the skip, it's
00:06:48 ◼ ► It's cold outside, but it's colder inside, and they're going for gold, and then they have
00:07:06 ◼ ► who did eventually win the first gold medal in U.S. curling history at the Olympics in like
00:07:24 ◼ ► And this is also back when, like, you know, the kids don't remember this, but when Jonathan
00:07:28 ◼ ► Colton was the original, like, I'm going to do, I'm going to make a song every single day
00:07:35 ◼ ► I mean, eventually this music went to YouTube, but originally it was just on his website,
00:07:39 ◼ ► which was where I first went to find this song, but all the links were dead, but then I found
00:07:50 ◼ ► Yeah, it's not, not really stylistically my, my choice, but it's certainly very knowledgeable.
00:07:54 ◼ ► And I think the point, I think the point made in the lyrics is actually really good, which
00:08:02 ◼ ► And it basically says, um, you, it's highlighting the fact that curling is a recreational sport
00:08:13 ◼ ► So I think the song ends that you can, more people curl in Canada than play hockey because
00:08:41 ◼ ► Um, but I guess this is what Jeff wants to do in his retirement, do a little bit of board,
00:08:45 ◼ ► board work, still take, it's nice salary, you know, it's nice, nice, nice way to retire.
00:08:51 ◼ ► Cause it's not, you know, he's not going to be in the, in the Disney mines every day and he'll
00:09:02 ◼ ► And in this case, it's two companies that are kind of linked together in a lot of ways.
00:09:06 ◼ ► Um, and so having a senior executive at Apple, um, retire and then become a board member at
00:09:15 ◼ ► And also it feels like as well that like typically when you're at that level, you, you know, you,
00:09:43 ◼ ► I had just because of the way that Jeff, uh, uh, retired, I kind of got the sense that he
00:09:56 ◼ ► Uh, Apple and Google have announced that they are working together on creating a set of features
00:10:03 ◼ ► Uh, these features are shipping in the Android beta for pixels now, and will come in a future
00:10:17 ◼ ► So, you know, I was doing a bunch of reading today, like for sites to say like, oh, what
00:10:23 ◼ ► And well, nobody knows exactly yet what the process is like, because you can't do what it's meant
00:10:31 ◼ ► Uh, yeah, it's going to be focused on helping you move your data essentially between these
00:10:36 ◼ ► The EU have claimed victory on this saying it is quote, an example of how the DMA brings
00:10:43 ◼ ► I will read from, uh, the, the EU press release on this because it, they go into some detail
00:10:51 ◼ ► Uh, the operating system portability solution, which is a terrible name, uh, will allow users
00:11:00 ◼ ► So when they set up a new device, it will support many types of data, including contacts, calendar
00:11:04 ◼ ► events, messages, photos, documents, wifi networks, passwords, and even data from third party apps.
00:11:16 ◼ ► So it seems somewhat like some of the data that would move from iPhone to iPhone, uh, Android
00:11:31 ◼ ► Um, but interestingly, if this is related to the DMA, which I mean, it clear, I mean, I
00:11:47 ◼ ► Well, they, both sides have tried to do like move to iPhone apps for Android and move to Android
00:11:58 ◼ ► Those were hostile apps where this is the two companies have actually had to have had to
00:12:08 ◼ ► Like moving all your photos is probably essentially been an impossible thing to do until now, um,
00:12:31 ◼ ► Like for Apple, if Apple's confident that it will be able to win over more Android users
00:12:59 ◼ ► One, this show has a lot of interest and intrigue and people want to watch it because it comes
00:13:15 ◼ ► Um, we've seen, there's some numbers that suggest that they've actually had quite a bit of success,
00:13:31 ◼ ► I think that some people who are not in the Apple ecosystem look at Apple TV and are like,
00:13:43 ◼ ► And so obviously there's more of a user base from which to get, uh, higher viewing numbers.
00:14:01 ◼ ► It's a, it's a fascinating, I feel like where I am at least genre bending show, I think is
00:14:26 ◼ ► and announce on the day of the finale that it's, you know, season two is coming in a year or
00:14:35 ◼ ► But, um, because they like to, the theater, the theater of that, but it was a two season
00:14:39 ◼ ► pickup and I believe they've already written season two and they're going to shoot it in
00:14:52 ◼ ► Maybe, I mean, I assume at this point, given the ratings as long as Vince Gilligan wants
00:14:57 ◼ ► to do it, but certainly there's, there'll be a second season and they're shooting it in
00:15:04 ◼ ► It feels like one of those shows that like, I don't know how long you could do it unless
00:15:21 ◼ ► I mean, obviously everybody who's been watching it has been thinking of, but what about this?
00:15:27 ◼ ► And I can imagine that there are going to be some things that set it off in some very different
00:15:38 ◼ ► And if he, if he, you know, if he only has two seasons of story, he'll do two seasons and
00:16:01 ◼ ► If you think of the HBO model, the goal with HBO was always to give you something to prevent
00:16:06 ◼ ► Because HBO, before the world of streaming, HBO was kind of like a streaming service in that
00:16:20 ◼ ► And even if you were locked in and trapped in your cable company, HBO was still optional.
00:16:33 ◼ ► And then they were also like, we can do TV series on Sunday nights and we can have those
00:16:55 ◼ ► And that is the thing that keeps people, in this case, opening the app, finding it valuable,
00:17:22 ◼ ► Because I think if you can really like, I don't know if the Studio and Silo might have overlapped
00:17:28 ◼ ► a bit, but I remember it was like Severance ended and then season two of Silo began immediately.
00:17:50 ◼ ► It may not all be the big zeitgeist buzzy show that some of them have been, but that is
00:18:16 ◼ ► Maybe they're just holding it because they're cowards or something, but they may just want
00:18:22 ◼ ► to re-rack it and put it in there because they do seem to have very much a content strategy
00:18:52 ◼ ► Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, I will say, of Upgradians have been submitting their
00:19:05 ◼ ► But if there's something you feel strongly about, maybe a podcast, an app, a feature, a product,
00:19:11 ◼ ► a news story, whatever it might be, you can go to Upgradeys.vote and there'll be a link
00:19:46 ◼ ► Maybe you've been thinking to yourself, ah, you know, my aunt wants to get me a gift and
00:19:53 ◼ ► Just tell her to go to giverelay.com and she can get you a subscription, gift you a subscription
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00:22:15 ◼ ► Apparently, they will utilize, quote, spliced microtransparent glass to make this work.
00:22:36 ◼ ► The information have previously reported that the iPhone 18 Pro would have no dynamic island
00:22:51 ◼ ► Mark Gurman has says that there will be a dynamic island as we know it, but it would be slimmed down.
00:23:01 ◼ ► What hardware is in the sensor stack that they might be trying to hide under the glass.
00:23:07 ◼ ► And I think the way this works, Apple doesn't want to talk about it, but looking at teardowns and all that.
00:23:18 ◼ ► And then separately, there is the face ID system, which includes a dot projector of infrared dots.
00:23:30 ◼ ► But basically there's a thing that beams out infrared on your face when you do face ID.
00:23:35 ◼ ► And then there's a low resolution, actually, infrared camera in there that is how face ID works, separate from the selfie camera.
00:23:51 ◼ ► The sensor for if you, you know, you hold your phone to your face that the screen turns off.
00:24:00 ◼ ► Maybe like the sensors that they use for brightness detection are also in that part of the phone.
00:24:12 ◼ ► Anyway, so there, if we think about those things, these reports might make more sense that the, if we're talking about face ID, they may be specifically talking about some aspects of that.
00:24:24 ◼ ► Like the IR emitter and the IR camera could maybe get buried, but the selfie camera can't.
00:24:33 ◼ ► I think these can all be kind of accurate that, that you, you could put a bunch of stuff underneath, which allows the one thing that you can't yet put underneath maybe to be much smaller.
00:24:44 ◼ ► Yeah, the, see, there's a few things going on here as well, where there is a, there was a rumor that we've spoken about in the past that there was an underscreen camera that might have been in the folding phone.
00:25:09 ◼ ► I think they've turned that into quite a clever system, but also from talk, you know, from what you're saying, I guess, from what Mark Gurman is saying, you could get rid of some of it, make it smaller.
00:25:24 ◼ ► And that kind of, there's still a kind of cut out in the screen, but yeah, over time, you would hope that some of the stuff is just not going to need to, to, to be completely visible.
00:25:36 ◼ ► I mean, my gut feeling is that they're not going to get rid of the dynamic island and that it's a feature of iOS now.
00:25:47 ◼ ► So if there's a future phone that doesn't have the cut out at all, I think if you start a live activity, the dynamic island will appear right with your live activity running in it.
00:25:58 ◼ ► Even if it doesn't need to be there all the time, covering up a, a dot or a hole or a notch or whatever, like, I think that they can keep the, they can keep the dynamic island on the iPhone if they like it.
00:26:10 ◼ ► And I find, I think it's nice to have a live activity view floating there and have that option for your interface.
00:26:23 ◼ ► Like it doesn't, it doesn't have to be something black on the screen that it must emit from.
00:26:33 ◼ ► If I will say, if they do this, if they put the face ID under the screen, I will be even more upset if then the folding phone is touch ID.
00:26:42 ◼ ► Like if they have found a way to put the face ID stuff under the screen completely on the 18 pro and I'm going to play like double the price and then you have to use touch ID.
00:26:51 ◼ ► I'm going to be so mad because I'm, you know, I'm already angry about the possibility of me paying $2,000 for touch ID.
00:26:59 ◼ ► I like knowing one of the talking points of one of our episodes next September is going to be Mike gets angry about touch ID.
00:27:17 ◼ ► And like, I, you know, I want face ID on that phone and it feels like I'm not going to get it.
00:27:25 ◼ ► Fili Pespasito at Macworld is reporting on some rumors on a new studio display that were found in a build of iOS 26.
00:27:36 ◼ ► So it says we could potentially be getting something at least mini LED and an A19 chip.
00:27:50 ◼ ► It doesn't do anything other than power to display and the stuff that needs to go into that, I guess.
00:28:31 ◼ ► I mean, I'm not sure I sit in front of my Mac thinking, oh, man, I wish I had a ProMotion HDR display here.
00:28:48 ◼ ► But unlike the iPhone, where I think I notice it a lot more on my Mac, I don't scroll through things and I'm not sad that they aren't smoother at scrolling for whatever reason.
00:29:02 ◼ ► So, like, personally, I'm not sure I would rush out as a studio display owner and buy the studio display, too.
00:29:15 ◼ ► I would be very excited about this because it will be interesting to me to see device compatibility and, like, what that looks like.
00:29:49 ◼ ► Similarly, similarly, similarly, Felipe found, just mixed, similarly, what is, I'm off on one today.
00:30:15 ◼ ► Today, it was when I was reminded that the HomePod Mini runs on an Apple Watch processor.
00:30:22 ◼ ► And that the new AirTag will apparently get an improved pairing process, enhanced precision finding, even while the device is in motion.
00:30:39 ◼ ► I mean, sometimes updates are not, a lot of times we judge updates by the Delta, right?
00:30:52 ◼ ► And I think it's fair sometimes to just say they wanted to stop using all the old parts that are running out for the old thing.
00:31:10 ◼ ► Which is, whatever, five years ago, they made their first engineering cut at an AirTag.
00:31:22 ◼ ► Even if it isn't, again, isn't the case that if you've got an, you know, AirTags, throw them all away and get the new AirTags.
00:31:31 ◼ ► It just means that if you go in an Apple store and buy an AirTag, it'll be better than it was.
00:31:42 ◼ ► But I think with the AirTag, I mean, Apple clearly considered privacy with the AirTag, but not to the level that privacy advocate groups wanted.
00:31:58 ◼ ► And I expect that the second generation AirTag will have been developed in a world where they were like, what if we went even stronger?
00:32:07 ◼ ► And there were rumors previously of you not being able to tamper with the speaker, like they were going to build a tamper-proof speaker.
00:32:20 ◼ ► And so, that's what I expect to see in some of this stuff that is given as a customer selling thing, like precision finding or whatever.
00:32:32 ◼ ► I mean, you talk about what's improved about it, and that can be part of your marketing.
00:32:38 ◼ ► And it really is that, you know, they did this whatever, however many years ago they designed the original.
00:32:50 ◼ ► I mean, that's the thing with a lot of stuff is you've just got to – it's not like a piece of furniture.
00:32:55 ◼ ► And in five years, you have completely new processes that may make that product much better or cheaper to make or whatever.
00:33:12 ◼ ► And so, it's like you want to get off of that processor and get to something that you've got in abundance that you're making at scale right now.
00:33:25 ◼ ► I just wanted to say sometimes we get focused on that when I think it's more like it's just a better AirTag that they're selling now.
00:33:32 ◼ ► And, you know, maybe there will be reasons to upgrade, but it seems to me that it's not entirely about that and it's more about we really should sell it.
00:33:44 ◼ ► Like, we should really sell a modern one of these and not just keep selling the old one.
00:33:57 ◼ ► I don't like that I have to keep changing these batteries and then I have to deal with the batteries.
00:34:01 ◼ ► I would love an AirTag that I could put on an Apple Watch charger and in 45 minutes it's back to full again.
00:34:11 ◼ ► I think that that would make me happy because I don't like having to deal with all these batteries all the time.
00:34:21 ◼ ► Tim Hardwick at MacRumors has put together a list of the MacBook models that we're expecting to see in 2026 and I thought as we're also approaching the end of the year, it would be nice to reflect and look forward as to what we may be expecting to see in 2026.
00:35:04 ◼ ► But then also we have the low cost MacBook, which as a quick refresher, 13 inch display, thin and light, LCD display, A18 Pro chip, USB-C, maybe some colors.
00:35:19 ◼ ► Performance similar to an M1 MacBook Air, maybe a little bit better than that, but using more modern parts and, you know, shape to be determined.
00:35:34 ◼ ► I mean, I think that is the story for me of this product is how much does it cost and what does it look like?
00:35:49 ◼ ► You know, like the first time I heard MacBook powered by an iPhone processor, I was like, oh, I don't know about that.
00:36:17 ◼ ► So, you know, the idea of it going to the iPhone chip, especially at this point, as you say, like, I guess you would know this.
00:36:44 ◼ ► It's more powerful at single processor because it's using a modern core, but it's, it's, it's just about the same in multiprocessor because you're going from an M chip with its cores to an A chip with its cores, but like perfectly respectable.
00:37:00 ◼ ► And in graphics, I think it was very similar, um, perfectly respectable, uh, difference.
00:37:06 ◼ ► So definitely, that's why I keep saying sort of like, think of it as an M1 profile, um, even if the truth is it's so yeah, yeah, here, here are the numbers.
00:37:17 ◼ ► So just using the geek bench numbers as a rule of thumb, um, A18 Pro is, uh, in single core is faster than the M3, right?
00:37:32 ◼ ► It's about as fast as the MacBook Air was, um, at, in its, you know, eight core existence.
00:37:41 ◼ ► It's, it's about the same because although I think it has fewer cores in the, in the A18 Pro, they're also better cores.
00:37:50 ◼ ► And then in terms of graphics, again, it's better than the M1, but not as good as the M2.
00:37:56 ◼ ► So it's, it's, I would say it is M1 class for everything except individual, you know, single core performance.
00:38:03 ◼ ► But a lot of stuff is just, if you're doing one thing, a lot of stuff is just single core performance and that will make it feel snappy enough.
00:38:17 ◼ ► And then the M6 MacBook Pro is also expected to launch either towards the end of 2026 or early 2027.
00:38:27 ◼ ► So this will feature, and the M6 chip generation, um, I would expect this will probably be the Pro model is what we would see here because of everything else in this, uh, computer.
00:38:41 ◼ ► So I wouldn't expect them to launch the M6 base with this, um, the M6 line is a new TSMC process, which will be two nanometers.
00:38:51 ◼ ► Um, and it incorporates all of the, the, the different components more closely together.
00:38:59 ◼ ► Um, the big win for this device would be a, or the big feature is a touchscreen OLED display, uh, thinner and lighter.
00:39:09 ◼ ► Um, apparently Apple are looking to make it thinner and lighter without compromising on battery and they will get gains from the display because the OLED display will use less power.
00:39:24 ◼ ► Um, we'll be looking at a hole punch camera instead of a notch, kind of like a small dynamic island is more what they're looking to do.
00:39:36 ◼ ► So, and German said it might slip into early 2027, although there, there's definitely precedent for it, for them shipping to MacBook Pros in the same year.
00:39:47 ◼ ► But the big thing is this is a new generation of MacBook Pro, um, so the big step forward where they change the, the case and they change the display and all of those things and not just kind of the internals.
00:40:02 ◼ ► I, I don't imagine, even if there is an M6 low end MacBook Pro, I imagine it will look just like the M5 low end MacBook Pro.
00:40:12 ◼ ► I don't think it's going to get all of these improvements because they're going to hold it down on price.
00:40:21 ◼ ► Like, I feel like Apple is, likes to withhold this on that low end model because, you know, they're trying to keep the price down on that.
00:40:37 ◼ ► This might be kind of like what they did when they did the redesign, the Apple Silicon redesign, right?
00:40:52 ◼ ► It's exactly that, that the, you know, it lags the, the bottom configuration of MacBook Pro Apple has decided is important.
00:41:05 ◼ ► Right now it's come all the way back up where, in fact, it exists on a new chip that the higher end models don't even have yet.
00:41:11 ◼ ► But when we reset the clock, when there's a brand new design, I don't think it'll get it.
00:41:20 ◼ ► And with the two in a year, I mean, it seems like realistically the M5 Pro and M5 Max have gotten delayed a little bit, right?
00:41:30 ◼ ► And so, you know, we may see early 25 for these and then late 26 for this MacBook Pro, which was maybe always expected to be a 2026 product.
00:41:54 ◼ ► This is what I'm saying is that it's so weird that we're talking about this MacBook Pro and I have to say it may be 27, right?
00:42:03 ◼ ► And I don't know how much of that is the design and how much of that is the pace of Apple Silicon.
00:42:07 ◼ ► And like, I don't know whether it was always the plan to ship the M5 Pro and Max chips in the spring or whether they wanted them in the fall and they weren't really ready.
00:42:33 ◼ ► That's going to be a big upgrade for a lot of people to drive a lot of MacBook Pro upgrades because it'll have a bunch of new, you know, it looks different.
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00:44:54 ◼ ► This comes with a bunch of different changes across the, well, it's 26, it's all the .2s, right?
00:45:09 ◼ ► I want to start by talking about iPadOS because iPadOS has had to continue to see more big change.
00:45:37 ◼ ► Because in addition to making it easy to drag out two things and make the equivalent of split view, you can drag out of the dock and make a slide over.
00:45:47 ◼ ► And then for people who like to switch apps in slide over, you can drag out of the dock onto your slide over and it'll switch to that app.
00:45:55 ◼ ► So you can be like running notes and want to put mail and slide over and you just drag the mail icon out of the dock and drop it on where the notes app is running and slide over and it switches to mail.
00:46:08 ◼ ► If you liked dragging things out of the dock to do multitasking on the iPad, they put that back.
00:46:14 ◼ ► And I've seen people say, you know, I wonder if they're reacting to feedback and all of that.
00:46:19 ◼ ► And I'm sure there's some aspect of that, but I also kind of wonder if this was just, we can't do that for people.
00:46:25 ◼ ► 0.0 and we'll get to this in 0.1 and we'll get to this in 0.2, that they just couldn't have it all there.
00:46:33 ◼ ► So, you know, we've come to here to the end of the year and we have a very complex system, not complicated, but complex system on iPadOS now.
00:46:45 ◼ ► Like, yeah, there are a lot of ways to manage your windows now, which I think is very good.
00:46:58 ◼ ► I would say that this addition has kind of made it easier to manage windows in general.
00:47:05 ◼ ► Like, it kind of felt like you had to, you know, you drag something out of the dock before.
00:47:16 ◼ ► But now, kind of wherever you're dragging it, it makes a square in the shape, essentially, like a rough shape of what the window is going to look like.
00:47:26 ◼ ► It'll tell you whether it's going to snap it to half or whether it's just going to put a window on the screen, depending on the feedback you get.
00:47:33 ◼ ► So, if you're running in horizontal mode, in landscape mode, you'll see it change from a wide rectangle, which is like a window, and then you kind of move over to the left or the right far enough.
00:47:53 ◼ ► And so, if you use it regularly, you'll know, oh, this is where I drop it, and now it'll go straight into that left half.
00:48:17 ◼ ► Every now and then, I would be doing something on the iPad, and I'd be like, you know what I should do is put this in slide over so I can just kind of refer to it.
00:48:40 ◼ ► I just generally let the windows be where I want them to be, and whatever layers I want them to be, and whatever place on the display I want them.
00:48:54 ◼ ► Although, I will say, dragging things out of the dock is a thing I like to do with iPad multitasking.
00:49:15 ◼ ► Like, if you're a stage manager user like me, somebody asked, by the way, that they want to hear about how I use stage manager.
00:49:22 ◼ ► At some point next year, I will do a segment on the show where I talk about how and why I use stage manager on my devices.
00:49:32 ◼ ► So, I do want to talk about that, but I want to kind of really map it out and talk about it properly and what I like about the system.
00:49:39 ◼ ► But, like, for example now, if you press Command-W to close a window, it just sends it over to the stage view.
00:49:50 ◼ ► Like, it doesn't actually close it, which I find a very – that just feels like a bug.
00:50:08 ◼ ► I think hide as a command on iPadOS just doesn't need to be there because Command-W is fine.
00:50:22 ◼ ► I mean, they're doing it because that's what it is on the Mac, and they kind of want these to be the same in both environments, I think, is why.
00:50:33 ◼ ► Because my issue is Globe isn't used for any of the other windowing things in this way.
00:50:46 ◼ ► I'm constantly pressing Command-H, which I had internalized, and it's just hiding it where previously it used to take me to the home screen.
00:50:59 ◼ ► But the way I would expect, as a Mac user, for it to work on iPad is, if I do Command-H, the window goes away.
00:51:07 ◼ ► But either it's retrievable somewhere, or if I open that app again, the window comes back where it was.
00:51:23 ◼ ► And then if I bring that back, it's like I'm launching the app, and that window doesn't come back unless – it behaves like an iPad app.
00:51:32 ◼ ► Because in window management, the difference on the Mac anyway between Command-H and Command-W is Command-H is, I don't want to see you right now, but when I bring you back, you come back right where you were.
00:51:49 ◼ ► So if you're in a text editor and you've got a file open, and you do Command-W, the file is not open anymore.
00:52:11 ◼ ► I could say, I don't know about the window in mobile, but with Stage Manager, it doesn't work like that.
00:52:19 ◼ ► With Stage Manager, if you then say select, say Slack, I've said Command-H on Slack, it will then just open it in a new stage again.
00:52:30 ◼ ► Because I can see that what they've actually done is minimize it to the stage view, which just is not at all either of the things that you're looking to do in that scenario.
00:52:52 ◼ ► That, like, if Command-Q is what you do when you're done with your work, then maybe it should just say, okay, I know what you want here.
00:53:02 ◼ ► And I would imagine that unless you have multiple windows open, Command-Q in the same app, Command-Q and Command-W are identical, and Command-H also may be identical, right?
00:53:28 ◼ ► Because it's, like, it's very strange, because all of the other windowing shortcuts are launched...
00:53:55 ◼ ► Like, I'm moving them around with my cursor, because, like, that just makes the most sense to me.
00:54:00 ◼ ► I think our discussion here shows you the challenges that Apple is trying to work through.
00:54:05 ◼ ► And I think they definitely feel pressure from people who are thinking of the iPad desktop environment, essentially, as similar to the Mac desktop environment.
00:54:18 ◼ ► Especially if you're going back and forth, having the keyboard shortcuts kind of behave the same way is preferable to having them be different.
00:54:27 ◼ ► Like, that's why the Command Q would be there at all, because that concept is sort of pointless.
00:54:34 ◼ ► I think it's just closing it like you would if you switched apps in full screen mode, right?
00:54:42 ◼ ► But you've got the added complexity of Stage Manager and the whole concept of, like, what is this thing?
00:54:55 ◼ ► And conceptually, the problem is, conceptually, that's a little different than it is on the Mac.
00:55:03 ◼ ► So, I think there's maybe some hope that some of your complaints might lead or might be realized in the future, just because this seems like it's still in flux.
00:55:13 ◼ ► And one of the most interesting things to me, for obvious reasons, is the changes in the podcast app in 26.2.
00:55:21 ◼ ► So, there's kind of two key areas that they're changing, but both are being enabled by the transcripts that Apple Podcasts make.
00:55:38 ◼ ► So, Apple is encouraging people to add chapters via the many ways in which you can do it, via MP3 metadata, which is what we do for this show.
00:55:48 ◼ ► Or you can put them in the RSS feed, in text, or in the description, in text, like you put time codes or whatever.
00:56:08 ◼ ► And what is also interesting, I was kind of poking around, you can tell what Apple thinks is a chapter, even for shows like ours.
00:56:25 ◼ ► So, like, for example, last week's Snell Talk discussion in Apple Podcasts' transcript of the episode says, curling media question.
00:56:35 ◼ ► And so that, if we did not provide our own transcripts, that is what the chapter would have been.
00:56:47 ◼ ► So, I have some podcasts that I listen to that don't have chapters in them, which is upsetting to me.
00:56:59 ◼ ► And one of the reasons that a lot of podcasts don't is because they use dynamic ad insertion.
00:57:08 ◼ ► They could add some basic ones, even if they're just using, like, text timecodes or whatever in the description.
00:57:15 ◼ ► But they're not doing that, probably for some CMS reason, because there are stacks and stacks of issues that can result in people doing things in interesting ways.
00:57:31 ◼ ► So, if you listen to a show, like a membership show, like, so I, again, I pay for the Verge, so I get the ad-free version of the Verge.
00:57:41 ◼ ► If I listened to that feed in Apple Podcasts, I would be able to get the transcripts, but in Overcast, I can't, you know.
00:57:53 ◼ ► So, you're not going to get those automatic chapters, because the transcripts are only available in shows that are publicly available.
00:58:05 ◼ ► If you want to supply your own transcript, instead of having Apple do it, you can actually put in the RSS feed.
00:58:10 ◼ ► Here is the VTT file, which is a subtitles file that we're going to use as the transcript for this episode, and it's timecoded and all of that.
00:58:23 ◼ ► And frustratingly, even though Apple won't transcribe a private podcast, a member edition, and we can do a transcript, and we could put it in the RSS feed, Apple Podcasts won't show it, which frustrates me a lot.
00:58:41 ◼ ► Pocket Casts, I think, does, because I do it for the Incomparable Special Edition for members.
00:58:52 ◼ ► But that's the thing that frustrates me is like, okay, you don't have to transcribe my member podcast.
00:58:58 ◼ ► You could probably figure out that it's identical across all these different subscribers and do that.
00:59:03 ◼ ► But if you don't want to do it, I did it, maybe let my people see it, but they don't do that.
00:59:12 ◼ ► But then with the transcripts, so you've got the chapters, also with the transcripts, they're starting to pick out things that you mention and put links to those things.
00:59:22 ◼ ► So the key one is if you mention another podcast in your show, in line with the transcript, they will highlight the podcast that is mentioned, which I think is awesome.
00:59:35 ◼ ► And then you can just press a button to go to the show or press the plus and you can follow the show.
00:59:41 ◼ ► So, for example, in last week's episode, we mentioned the rest is history, and the show was in the transcript.
00:59:50 ◼ ► It's like right there at the moment that we mention it in the chapter where we're talking about them winning the podcast of the year, which the Apple transcript named that one Apple of the Year, which is hilarious.
01:00:12 ◼ ► And then also they're in line, but also on the episode page, it mentions there's like a section like things mentioned in this episode.
01:00:18 ◼ ► And there's other podcasts that are mentioned in the show will get added in there as well.
01:00:28 ◼ ► And I think it's incredibly clever, however on earth they're doing this, that I can just say the rest is history.
01:00:53 ◼ ► Be sure to listen to The Incomparable Mothership available where you get your podcasts.
01:01:11 ◼ ► There is also going to be some level of automatic linking via the transcripts that you can...
01:01:23 ◼ ► But apparently, if you mention stuff that is on Apple's services, so Apple News, Apple TV, that kind of stuff.
01:01:49 ◼ ► And it is possible, if you go into the Apple Podcasts backend, you can manually link these things.
01:02:01 ◼ ► But I have yet to see an example of it being in the transcript or seemingly based upon the conversation.
01:02:10 ◼ ► I do wonder, for all of these things, if one of the things that's going on here is it's trying to judge if it's a substantial mention.
01:02:29 ◼ ► So I wonder if, you know, right, if we spam it like we did a few minutes ago, if it's like, well, yeah, but those are all just in passing.
01:03:01 ◼ ► And I think it's showing the potential power that you have available to you once you have a tech complete transcript and an understanding of what is in the transcript to do stuff with it.
01:03:20 ◼ ► So I will say I've just gone back to the Apple TV draft episode and it has pulled out the podcasts that we mentioned in the episode downstream.
01:03:35 ◼ ► But I think it's their intent to do that, but they're obviously not doing it or not doing it for all podcasts yet.
01:03:42 ◼ ► This is a consequence of them turning on this feature where they are going and transcribing every, you know, popular or semi-popular and ultimately every podcast.
01:03:52 ◼ ► They're throwing lots of cloud CPU time at a transcription engine to build these things out and put them in their database.
01:03:59 ◼ ► The nice thing is since they, since they know what the podcast is, they transcribe it once and then everybody gets it right.
01:04:06 ◼ ► Like everybody who subscribes to the rest is history gets the one transcript of that episode and the same for us.
01:04:11 ◼ ► And they do some ad sensing stuff, which is really amazing for, um, things that have dynamic ads in them.
01:04:16 ◼ ► They can kind of map where the content is so that like, if you get a different ad and then they come back to the host, the transcript picks up where the host speaks.
01:04:38 ◼ ► I was talking to somebody who was involved with Apple podcasts and this, you know, they're not talking about future features, but the implication I got from that conversation about the transcripts was that Apple was viewing the transcripts as a feature that unlocks a lot of other features.
01:04:57 ◼ ► Because now they kind of understand the content of the podcast, and this is a great example of them trying to do that.
01:05:04 ◼ ► We spoke about this before, and I've had some conversations with people inside of Apple about some of the clever stuff that they're doing.
01:05:10 ◼ ► Like how they're using, like their model is trying to make decisions about the transcript based on information that it can glean.
01:05:27 ◼ ► And something I find fascinating, I don't know how they've done this, but so that, you know, I shared some images of you just so you could see what I was looking at.
01:05:35 ◼ ► So in last week's episode of Connected, I said the line, I had to immerse myself in all of this news for Upgrade this week.
01:05:55 ◼ ► Now, there are obvious ways that it can know, and they're clearly doing some of that work to link me to these two shows that when I say Upgrade on Connected, I am probably referencing this show.
01:06:10 ◼ ► And like, I'm sure that they have to do more work to be like, because obviously I can say the word Upgrade and I'm not talking about this show.
01:06:26 ◼ ► Yeah, my gut feeling when I first saw that it gets Mike Hurley right almost all the time.
01:06:32 ◼ ► Although when I say goodbye to you at the end of the show, Jamie pointed out that it almost always transcribes as my Curley.
01:06:52 ◼ ► But the thing is, they're probably, when they run the transcript, they're probably passing a load of metadata, including the description of the show, which includes our names in it.
01:07:03 ◼ ► They have a thing that they do where they're like people in Apple Podcasts, where there's like, they're identifying who hosts are, which probably also allows them to cross-reference with other shows and put that in there.
01:07:14 ◼ ► And there might even be a bio block where it's like, Mike Hurley is also the host of Connected or whatever, or also the host of Upgrade.
01:07:23 ◼ ► They are getting that context and then running the transcript and the chapter engine and the extraction of media for links.
01:07:39 ◼ ► Because you can't, you can't use the word upgrade on a random podcast to talk about a software upgrade and have it linked to the Upgrade podcast.
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01:09:53 ◼ ► We had an ask upgrade question that I thought would actually fit quite nicely in this discussion.
01:09:57 ◼ ► So Logan wrote in and said, considering the advancements in 26.2 in the podcast app, it got me thinking, why hasn't Apple focused on video podcasts?
01:10:08 ◼ ► While it technically supports video, no major podcast is releasing through Apple podcasts.
01:10:17 ◼ ► I think this is a great question and I think maybe video podcasts doesn't fit Apple's strategy.
01:10:27 ◼ ► Yeah, the irony is that Apple podcasts has supported video podcasts since the beginning.
01:10:30 ◼ ► But what Spotify has done, for people who don't know, I mean, we post our podcast to YouTube, right?
01:10:51 ◼ ► Because Spotify expects that the audio that goes with your video version is essentially identical to your audio version.
01:11:03 ◼ ► So if we were to upload upgrade in video format to Spotify, you wouldn't get the audio edit that is carefully being done by Jim Metzendorf.
01:11:14 ◼ ► If you would be getting the audio from the video edit that Jamie is doing, which is more cheap, you know, it's not on Jamie.
01:11:24 ◼ ► We are more focused on just having it be kind of expediently make sure the cuts happen where the cuts happen.
01:11:31 ◼ ► But like she's not and we don't expect her to do like dialogue trimming, take out this little bit of crosstalk.
01:11:43 ◼ ► Because it's coming from Riverside, which does a decent job considering, but it's not our local recordings that Jim Metzendorf is using.
01:11:52 ◼ ► So right now the way it works on Spotify, just so people understand this, if we uploaded upgrade to Spotify, you wouldn't hear, even if you're not using video, you wouldn't hear our audio edit.
01:12:03 ◼ ► You would hear our video edit, which we are not going to do to the level of our audio edit because we are primarily an audio podcast.
01:12:14 ◼ ► So Spotify basically says, if you do video, you're a video podcast and we'll just use the audio of your video.
01:12:25 ◼ ► Like, I think if you're producing video, you're probably just pulling the audio out of the edit and you're publishing that audio.
01:12:33 ◼ ► The reason they do this is because they have an incredible feature where you can seamlessly switch between the audio and the video at any time.
01:12:50 ◼ ► If you're listening to a show and then someone mentions something, you can just jump back 10 seconds, turn the video on, see what they said, and then just turn it off again.
01:12:58 ◼ ► But yes, it doesn't work for shows that produce in a way that is considered to be odd today.
01:13:04 ◼ ► Genuinely, I would imagine you could say this to an engineer at Spotify and they were like, never even considered it.
01:13:16 ◼ ► And if we uploaded our video and we didn't have that feature, you couldn't toggle back and forth because the audio wouldn't track because it would be off because the edits are different.
01:13:51 ◼ ► Which means that if we really wanted to go down that path with Spotify, we would have to get an editor who is comfortable editing audio and video simultaneously.
01:14:04 ◼ ► We'd probably need to do a bunch of, like, download the video files, which would take longer.
01:14:21 ◼ ► My gut feeling is that Logan is right and that Apple has kind of fallen asleep at the switch.
01:14:27 ◼ ► And that there is this big trend toward having podcasts with video versions, and they're just kind of not there.
01:14:33 ◼ ► And I get why podcast app is different than YouTube, but Spotify shows that you can also say, actually, podcast and video are now kind of the same for some podcasts.
01:14:48 ◼ ► And maybe we should just let you switch on the video if we want to, and that Apple is kind of leaving a trend in podcasting behind by ignoring it.
01:15:04 ◼ ► The asterisk is if you do a membership through Apple Podcasts, they do host the member version.
01:15:36 ◼ ► And they'll do whatever they need to do to compress it and alter it dynamically or whatever it needs to do.
01:15:47 ◼ ► This is, for me, the reason they are not in this business is because they are not willing to do the hosting.
01:15:55 ◼ ► It has always, you know, I think that there is part of this is that they do decide to kind of stay out of it.
01:16:03 ◼ ► Part of it is they just, I don't think, could get the internal sign-off to be able to turn themselves into a hosting platform.
01:16:15 ◼ ► And it doesn't make sense for their business in the way that it makes sense for YouTube and Spotify's business.
01:16:21 ◼ ► Because YouTube and Spotify will let you do this and will take the cost because they want to put ads on that content.
01:16:30 ◼ ► So, they would essentially be taking on what could be a massive cost for no revenue coming in for them as a business.
01:16:48 ◼ ► If you subscribe to a video RSS feed, of which there are very few now, but used to be many.
01:17:02 ◼ ► But it's for members because, and this is the other part of this, if you host it yourself, it is incredibly expensive to host video.
01:17:13 ◼ ► And so, that's why podcasts, even if they offered this feature, podcasters, I mean, probably if they offered this feature, there would be a host out there that would have it.
01:17:26 ◼ ► If Apple merged podcasts together and said, upgrade can have a video feed, but you have to serve the video.
01:17:37 ◼ ► I mean, I imagine they would go out with a partner like Libsyn or somebody like that and say, we've got a video plan for you.
01:17:43 ◼ ► That you can upload to, but it's extra expense because it's a huge amount of data that's getting transferred at that point.
01:17:51 ◼ ► But at the same time, it does, it is not strategic for Apple, other than the sense that maybe Apple Podcasts then feels like it's missing the zeitgeist of podcasts.
01:18:11 ◼ ► I think that they are perfectly happy being, you know, the main place that people get audio podcasts.
01:18:19 ◼ ► My other idea was that they do something like, you can tell where the YouTube video is for your podcast and they'll put in a player in a WebKit view or something like that.
01:18:34 ◼ ► Do they want to be, you know, definitive wherever podcasting goes, including into video?
01:18:48 ◼ ► I would just say, though, that it does, the danger there is that podcasting shoots off in this other direction and Apple never goes there.
01:19:03 ◼ ► Now, there are many reasons that people produce video versions of their podcasts, which, again, is not Apple.
01:19:11 ◼ ► Apple don't care about building an algorithmic suggestion engine to that degree, right?
01:19:28 ◼ ► Like, this kind of, like, push to video, people think that this is, like, the new way and the only possible way that podcasting can be successful into the future.
01:19:38 ◼ ► It's just, this industry has found so many weird and wonderful ways that it goes to as people are trying to unlock that next $10 million, right?
01:19:49 ◼ ► And, you know, for a while, it was just bundle up a bunch of shows, put some celebrities on them, and someone will buy your podcast company.
01:20:10 ◼ ► And so, like, people just get, the podcasting industry, people just get very excited because everybody wants it to be bigger than it is.
01:20:16 ◼ ► And, like, everyone should really just be happy with the size that it is because it is a business that works really well for a bunch of very specific reasons.
01:20:24 ◼ ► And the more we give away from the RSS underpinning of this industry, the more we will lose, not gain, is my kind of overall thesis.
01:20:36 ◼ ► I'll throw out another idea here, which is, I think that what's one of the things that's happening is that, especially for, like, celebrities, is that podcast is now a synonym for a talk show you distribute yourself.
01:21:02 ◼ ► But there was a time when, like, every podcast was a very expensive scripted podcast about true crime or whatever.
01:21:08 ◼ ► And now, I think the hot podcast format is conversations like we have, which is awesome, actually, because we are not making the money and do not have the audience that the rest is history has.
01:21:30 ◼ ► Now, Conan O'Brien's strategy, you know, he's got multiple cameras in the studio, but, you know, it's cameras around a table in a studio.
01:21:43 ◼ ► Stephen Colbert, when it was announced that CBS was going to cancel him at the end of next year's season in the spring, everybody was immediately saying, well, you know, do a podcast.
01:21:57 ◼ ► It's like, I mean, it's do a show on the internet, but now the context for that is do a podcast because that's, I think, so I think that's where it is right now as people think of it that way.
01:22:08 ◼ ► The good thing is, and there is a good thing here, is I believe that so many people love podcasts because they're trapped in their cars or trapped somewhere where they can't watch TV, but they can listen to the radio.
01:22:34 ◼ ► I do watch some clips of, like, Conan's podcasts and stuff like that, and watching that stuff on YouTube is fun, but, like, it's not just the only way that people consume podcasting, and I think that's good.
01:22:46 ◼ ► I think having the video is fine, but, so what I like about it is Conan O'Brien has a podcast, and he may be comfortable.
01:22:56 ◼ ► With the video, like, this is like when I'm on Twit, you know, Leo comes from a TV background, and so he, I think, feels that the video version is the definitive version, but a whole lot of people never see the video version.
01:23:23 ◼ ► So, you know, I don't know what that means for the future of podcasting, but I think what I like about it is it shows that conversational podcasting in audio form is viable, even if some of the big stars with big budgets also do video at a much higher level than we do.
01:23:41 ◼ ► So that's, it's an interesting idea, but I think Logan, Mike got to the big, the big issue here is it's not aligned with Apple strategy, and Apple doesn't host video files or podcast files of any kind other than some membership files.
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01:25:19 ◼ ► Oh, I mean, well, you get a good meal in you, and then you're not drifting toward the treats or the snacks, as we said earlier.
01:25:47 ◼ ► And that's been useful, and we just got a box last week, and Lauren's been taking them to work, and she works on Thursday nights.
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01:27:13 ◼ ► I would like to mention, you know, we're going to be doing the holiday special next week.
01:27:21 ◼ ► So if you have any specific holiday questions you'd like us to answer on next week's show,
01:27:30 ◼ ► Roy asks, Jason mentioned during episode 593 that Apple tried to hire him a decade ago.
01:27:37 ◼ ► In my three or four years of listening to Upgrade, I don't think I've ever heard this story.
01:28:05 ◼ ► One was back when I worked at IDG, and they approached me about something, and that didn't go very far.
01:28:15 ◼ ► And then after I left in that first year that I was out on my own, you go out on your own, and I don't know about anybody else.
01:28:22 ◼ ► But for me, every time somebody mentioned a job opening in that first year, I was like, hey, a job.
01:28:36 ◼ ► I got approached by a person who works in editorial, which is very funny, thinking about Apple as an editor and a journalist, that they have an editorial group.
01:28:57 ◼ ► When they have picks of featured apps, they work with developer relations, but there's a separate group that is doing content for the App Store.
01:29:13 ◼ ► And so I think the concept there was, we want a lead editor for the Mac App Store to do the content for the Mac App Store.
01:29:46 ◼ ► I remember at WWDC, actually, that year, the first WWDC, I was there on my own instead of with Macworld.
01:30:03 ◼ ► And I'm like, well, I'm going to be open to this because I don't know how this independent thing is going to go.
01:30:10 ◼ ► I think I talked about this on Free Agents back in the day that I did with David Sparks.
01:30:19 ◼ ► And so what I did was I tried to calculate out what did I, what would it take for me to go to a corporate job
01:30:31 ◼ ► And keep in mind, at this point, it would take almost, at some point in the last 10 years,
01:30:37 ◼ ► that number has increased beyond a point that any reasonable company would hire me, right?
01:30:45 ◼ ► Because like you would, to leave all of this behind for a corporate job would take an enormous sum of money
01:30:59 ◼ ► Um, what I found out with this job, which was early on, was, um, they having done it for having,
01:31:06 ◼ ► having been in this job for six months or a year, what they were going to offer was less
01:31:22 ◼ ► But I was looking at it and thinking, and I don't even know if Lauren had a full-time job at this point.
01:31:28 ◼ ► I think she didn't, she was still looking for a full-time job so that we could get benefits and stuff like that.
01:31:36 ◼ ► Um, when it's not going to benefit me financially, it's just going to be back in the maw of a, of a corporation.
01:31:43 ◼ ► And since it's Apple, it means that I essentially would need to cease all of my other stuff that I do, which I didn't like.
01:31:58 ◼ ► I had a great staff of people at Macworld, many of whom did not work in our office and it didn't matter.
01:32:29 ◼ ► And I had somebody I used to work with at IDG who worked at Amazon and he suggested in a meeting somewhere about creating a new position to do content in the context of, of, of Amazon and the homepage of Amazon.
01:32:49 ◼ ► And he suggested me and we lined up an interview or a series of interviews in Seattle for me.
01:32:53 ◼ ► I was going to fly into Seattle for a day on Amazon's dime, do a bunch of interviews and then fly home.
01:32:59 ◼ ► And, um, literally the day before they called and said, we're canceling, which I think, I think my friend's suggestion got to somebody who was like, I don't want that job to be hired.
01:33:15 ◼ ► And it was like, they are going to need to pay me so much money for me to leave my career behind and move my family to Seattle.
01:33:26 ◼ ► And not that there isn't a price, but like I said, I feel, I, I, I rapidly came to realize that my price was so high again, that nobody should pay it.
01:33:41 ◼ ► Like you could pay me a million dollars a year and I would probably do it probably depending on what it was, but you shouldn't pay me a million dollars a year.
01:33:53 ◼ ► You should hire somebody else who you can pay a fraction of that to get the same thing.
01:33:59 ◼ ► And my, my skills are very specialized in many ways now in terms of my areas of expertise.
01:34:11 ◼ ► The good news is, um, I told the hiring person at Apple, um, I know somebody who'd be perfect for this role because Dan Frakes got laid off from Mac world and he did Mac gem.
01:34:23 ◼ ► Which was all about Mac software and utilities and things like that highlighting Mac software, literally what the job of the Mac app store is.
01:34:46 ◼ ► And I don't know if my recommendation led to that or if it happened completely independently, but like, it was very funny.
01:34:57 ◼ ► I remember this being a very stressful time for me because I didn't want Jason to, to leave, uh, and, and go to Apple.
01:35:05 ◼ ► Remember when I was, I remember when I was talking about maybe teaching at the graduate school of journalism at UC Berkeley.
01:35:13 ◼ ► And that would have been a time commitment where we would have had to like change when we do upgrade and a whole thing.
01:35:18 ◼ ► And then, and then it's very similar situation where I was talking to them and, uh, the problem was that they had had an instructor drop out.
01:35:57 ◼ ► I mean, that's the, that's the truth of it is when you go out on your own scary early days, I don't know if this is for you.
01:36:02 ◼ ► It is scary and you, and I think there is always a calculus, which is I can build this on my own, but if somebody comes with a better opportunity, maybe I'll do that.
01:36:47 ◼ ► Do you think they could have set themselves up differently to other companies to mitigate this issue?
01:36:55 ◼ ► I mean, Apple was asked this question in the quarterly and they said they weren't worried about it.
01:37:06 ◼ ► They, they, they don't have like a separate memory chip, but they, they still have to have the memory chips.
01:37:13 ◼ ► Um, but Apple traditionally has spent a lot of time with long-term contracts where they're basically locking in prices in, in, in exchange for guaranteeing volume to the supplier.
01:37:25 ◼ ► And, um, they said they weren't really worried about it, about the volatility in it because they had, they had taken care of it.
01:37:42 ◼ ► And if this situation does not resolve itself, I've put a link in the show notes in case you, if you want to know more about it.
01:37:50 ◼ ► But like, very, it's just one of those things that reminds me of like COVID stuff where it's like a bunch of things have come together and have resulted in an issue.
01:38:01 ◼ ► If, if it turns out that over the course of five years, the price of Ram goes from 10, whatever's to 20.
01:38:27 ◼ ► And then what usually happens is if it's so expensive, everybody kind of rushes in to fulfill demand, to lower the price, because that's kind of how the market dynamic works.
01:38:43 ◼ ► If there's a fundamental thing that happens that changes the world, of course, they'll have to deal with it.
01:38:53 ◼ ► So I think if the question is about fluctuations, I think Apple has said, we'll ride it out.
01:39:00 ◼ ► Um, and then long-term will be a fun, I'd say long-term will be fundamental for everybody, right?
01:39:05 ◼ ► Like in the long term, if something doubles in price, every single supplier, every, of every single device that has RAM or whatever in it will have to deal with it.
01:39:25 ◼ ► And James wrote in and says, you've mentioned not wanting to speculate too much about Apple employees, personal lives, their health or careers.
01:39:32 ◼ ► Where do you think the line is between gossip or unfounded speculation and reporting on current Apple news and rumors?
01:39:54 ◼ ► So we might say Tim Cook, you know, seems like a person who might stick around, but also Tim Cook's in his mid sixties and things like that.
01:40:01 ◼ ► But the truth is, I think we approach a lot of this stuff from the angle of what does this mean for Apple going forward?
01:40:16 ◼ ► But it's not, it's not like, I would say gossipy in the sense of, did you hear that so-and-so is doing this thing or going to this place?
01:40:36 ◼ ► And I think as well, this, this came up because of the report from Mark Gurman about a tremor, right?
01:40:42 ◼ ► And I think we kind of touched on it because it was in the news, but like specifically so, but that we did not want to go into detail on it or speculate on it ourselves.
01:40:50 ◼ ► Like, but it is a thing that was in an important report and feels like something that should be mentioned if it's in that report.
01:40:56 ◼ ► And I would argue the CEO, the health of the CEO of Apple is relevant to a certain point, right?
01:41:05 ◼ ► There was literally a scandal about Steve Jobs's health, about if Apple had lied or hidden away the details of his health.
01:41:16 ◼ ► And the feeling was that at some level, a public company has to disclose the status of their, especially their CEO, co-founder and CEO.
01:41:36 ◼ ► But there is that moment where it's like, but this is relevant in ways to the operation of the company.
01:41:47 ◼ ► Like it's private, but at the same time, if you are an executive at a publicly traded company, I'm sorry, your whole life is not private.
01:41:59 ◼ ► And so things you would otherwise say it's none of your business, it is kind of your business.
01:42:04 ◼ ► Things that could impact your ability to be able to do your job need to be disclosed because it could affect the stock price, which could affect people's savings, right?
01:42:22 ◼ ► But like, you know, we're not going to sit here on this show and we don't and talk about what we think about Tim Cook's love life, right?
01:42:31 ◼ ► Also, what I think we do, and you can see it from when we report, when we do like rumor roundup and all of that,
01:42:47 ◼ ► But I feel like we do a pretty good job of trying, trying to diagnose that report, right?
01:43:11 ◼ ► If there's a weird report from somewhere, Ming-Chi Kuo, we're like, his sources in the supply chain are good.
01:43:16 ◼ ► And so we lay, there's more credence to that than there is for some like random rumor posted on a Chinese social media site
01:43:30 ◼ ► And second, if it is worth mentioning, it is worth mentioning with the details of where it came from.
01:43:34 ◼ ► And I think that's important too, as part of it is, you know, does this, does this stuff hold water basically?
01:43:43 ◼ ► And then you can judge, we will discuss it, but I want to always bring to the table like our level of trust or confidence in it.
01:44:04 ◼ ► The other thing I would say is, I, the other place that this comes into effect is, you know,
01:44:19 ◼ ► The things that are not about their role as an Apple person, uh, rapidly, that, that's when I feel like it's rapidly getting it personal.
01:44:30 ◼ ► So if you decide to write a thing that says someone, Phil Schiller made this decision, you better know for a fact that it's Phil Schiller.
01:44:39 ◼ ► You should say Apple made this decision and Phil Schiller rolled it out or whatever it is.
01:44:45 ◼ ► And then also it's the, it's the getting too personal about like Alan Dye's Instagram, right?
01:44:54 ◼ ► And I get a sense that people are using Alan Dye's interest in the fashion industry as a way to get at him.
01:45:02 ◼ ► Like, oh, he's not one of us, or he's, he's interested in all this stuff that, and you don't have to be interested in fashion,
01:45:08 ◼ ► but like, I think it's irrelevant to his job as a designer at Apple and now meta it get, it got a little too personal in my opinion.
01:45:17 ◼ ► So, you know, think about them as people at a public company who have roles and may be visible.
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01:45:48 ◼ ► If you'd like to actually see the video version of this show that we spoke about earlier on, you can go to YouTube.