00:02:31
◼►
So, not only was this guy using Flighty, on, by the way, on an iPhone Air, which is the first time I've seen anyone with an iPhone Air in the wild.
00:02:54
◼►
He had an iPhone Air and some kind of Android something.
00:02:57
◼►
He was kind of alternating between them, and the entire flight, he was using a 13-inch OLED iPad Pro as, like, his main entertainment device.
00:03:07
◼►
So, like, this guy was obviously, like, a nerd of some kind, but nothing compared to the nerd that was sitting behind him, who was also using Flighty here and there.
00:03:15
◼►
Here, I'll send this second picture to the guy.
00:03:20
◼►
So, we're looking at a picture of a gentleman with a Vision Pro on.
00:03:24
◼►
It's hard to tell, you know, you can't really tell if it's an M5 Vision Pro or not, but I can tell you it 100% has the new dual-knit, whatever they call it, headband, which is the Pro Move.
00:03:33
◼►
And this man looks like he is watching a movie and living his best life.
00:03:37
◼►
This is the first time I've seen a Vision Pro being used in the wild outside of, like, Apple events.
00:03:43
◼►
So, this man was using a Vision Pro for the entire flight.
00:03:48
◼►
He was, based on the fact that he was not moving his hands most of the time, I could tell that he was mostly probably just watching a movie or something the whole time.
00:03:56
◼►
But I did see him do the relatively complicated, like, bring up control center and change the volume gesture where, you know, like, you turn your hand upside down.
00:04:51
◼►
But it doesn't strike me as a person who has saved up for two years to buy Vision Pro.
00:04:55
◼►
But, like, in the occasions when I am really amped about getting something and I save my money for it, you bet that me, of all people, has read the manual front-to-back inside and out 13 times before it arrives.
00:05:06
◼►
If you bought it and had a flight, you'd definitely be using it on a flight just like you were trying to set up your new phone on the way to the airport.
00:05:12
◼►
But, yeah, so my – but because you have a third-party case –
00:05:15
◼►
so my theory is either he's a John and has read everything and did everything and even maybe pre-ordered the case or he has either bought both Vision Pros or he at least bought the new strap on day one and then immediately took a flight with it.
00:05:31
◼►
But I got to say, seeing it in the wild, it was a weird look to see on a plane, to be honest.
00:05:38
◼►
But we did find, like, one person in the wild who uses the Vision Pro on an airplane.
00:05:47
◼►
All right, we should do a little bit of shilling.
00:05:52
◼►
Let's talk about the ATP Holiday Store, which is BackBaby at ATP.fm slash store.
00:05:57
◼►
John, can you take us through maybe not every single product, but at least the highlights or the new products for this season, please?
00:06:03
◼►
Yeah, so to start off with the Chicken Hat 2.0, new version of our chicken hat or the reproduction of my really old hat, it's a little bit bigger than the old one.
00:06:10
◼►
The logo's in the middle, but that's not the important part.
00:06:12
◼►
We have some important chicken hat follow-up from Ben Kane.
00:06:15
◼►
Last episode, I was trying to describe the chicken hat for people who'd never heard of it, and I said, well, you know, when you put it on, like, it looks kind of like a triangle on top of your head.
00:06:25
◼►
And when you wear it, it's, like, vertically, you know, it makes, like, a ridge in your head, kind of like the comb on a rooster.
00:06:31
◼►
And I had said, you know, a rooster, I know it's not technically a chicken, but you know what I mean, like the little flappy thing that's on top of the head of a chicken.
00:06:38
◼►
Ben Kane writes, a rooster is, in fact, a chicken.
00:06:40
◼►
Male chickens are roosters, female chickens are hens.
00:07:20
◼►
Other new notable products, we've got an ATP quarter zip, which is proving popular for people who don't like their zippers to go all the way down.
00:07:28
◼►
We have the ugly ATP Tahoe shirt to memorialize Tahoe, which we may talk about in the topic section.
00:07:35
◼►
We have the very popular ATP T568A and T568B Ethernet wiring standard shirts that transform our logo, like to change the six-color apple stripe things in the ATP logo to be the colors of the conductors, the wire jackets in Ethernet connectors.
00:07:51
◼►
According to these two different standards, there's different wires in different orders.
00:08:04
◼►
I can tell you that right now, it's basically two to one, B to A. B is selling twice as much as A right now.
00:08:11
◼►
Now, on that topic, because I always forget which one of these is which.
00:08:14
◼►
So, I went to the Wikipedia page because I personally don't have any experience in working with these wires.
00:08:19
◼►
I've never crimped an Ethernet connector, although I've seen these wires inside them and I'm aware of it conceptually.
00:08:22
◼►
So, I don't know the cultural, you know, I don't know the cultural weight of these different standards, but I'm kind of surprised that it's two to one B to A.
00:08:30
◼►
Here's what Wikipedia has to say on this briefly.
00:08:36
◼►
The 568 standard recommends T568A pinout for horizontal cables.
00:08:40
◼►
This pinout is compatible with one pair and two pair universal service order codes, or USOC pinouts.
00:08:45
◼►
The U.S. government requires it, that is, it requires 568A, in federal contracts.
00:08:50
◼►
The standard also allows only in certain circumstances the T568B pinout, quote,
00:08:55
◼►
If necessary to accommodate certain 8-pin cabling systems, i.e. when and only when adding to an existing installation that uses a T568B wiring pattern.
00:09:03
◼►
In the 1990s, when the original standard was published, the most widely installed wiring pattern in unshielded twisted pair cabling infrastructure was AT&T's 258A Systemax,
00:09:14
◼►
hence the inclusion of the same wiring pattern as T568B as a secondary option for use in such installations.
00:09:20
◼►
Many organizations still use T568B out of inertia.
00:09:25
◼►
So, all you B people out there, 2-to-1, B, are you using B out of inertia?
00:09:31
◼►
Because you're using an existing thing that used the 18-to-258A Systemax standard in the 1990s?
00:09:37
◼►
Why 2-to-1, B? It seems like A is the recommendation.
00:09:40
◼►
I recall from our older conversation that one of these was compatible with, like, telephone system, like, analog telephone system wiring, and the other one wasn't.
00:09:48
◼►
But these two paragraphs from Wikipedia don't tell me which is which.
00:09:51
◼►
But are you still using T568B out of inertia?
00:09:54
◼►
Did you buy the B t-shirt out of inertia?
00:12:35
◼►
I had said that basically using Mac virtual display with my 2019 Mac Pro and my Pro Display XDR basically unretened my display.
00:12:42
◼►
Like, the display was the same as it was in physical space, only now when I'm looking at it in virtual space, it looks like it was no longer a retina display.
00:12:48
◼►
Thomas Cheng was one of many people to write in to point out that Mac virtual display when used with an Intel Mac is only up to 3K resolution.
00:12:56
◼►
And I had said, can you believe this works with Intel?
00:12:59
◼►
Well, apparently it does work with Intel, sort of.
00:13:48
◼►
Going from 3K to 5K does make a significant difference.
00:13:51
◼►
In fact, I was using it with the studio display connected to a Mac studio, fittingly.
00:13:55
◼►
And I did the thing where you're like, I made the virtual display the same resolution as the physical display.
00:14:00
◼►
And I put it directly on top of the physical display.
00:14:03
◼►
You know how, like, it snaps to, like, maybe you don't know.
00:14:06
◼►
When you're moving the virtual display around, it will snap to the vertical surface of the display like it knows that the display is there.
00:14:15
◼►
And then you can size it so that you're looking, like, you know, put pass-through on and everything.
00:18:49
◼►
Like, when Apple says it's limited to 3K, do they mean it's literally limited to 3008 by 1692?
00:18:56
◼►
You know, again, throwing out these casual K numbers for things that are more exact in number of pixels is difficult to understand.
00:19:04
◼►
But it seems like 3K, if judging by Apple's pattern of using 6K for its monitors, it seems like 3K may literally be a direct unwrittening of the 6K display.
00:19:15
◼►
And then Nick wrote to point out, which is something I knew but didn't think of in the heat of the moment, tapping and holding on the X, which if you imagine a Vision Pro window, and you don't have to have Vision Pro to have seen this,
00:19:28
◼►
under the Vision Pro window is a bar that's very similar to the affordance for swiping, you know, like app switching affordance on the phone.
00:19:38
◼►
And to the left of that horizontal bar, there's a circle with an X.
00:19:42
◼►
And Nick writes, tapping and holding the X lets you hide other windows.
00:19:46
◼►
And the context here was John saying there is no window management in the Vision Pro, which is mostly true.
00:19:51
◼►
But Nick reminded me and reminds us that if you tap and hold the X, it'll let you hide every other window.
00:19:56
◼►
Yeah, that goes a long way towards solving my problem, which is like, I don't want all these other windows there, but I also don't want to close them, but I also don't want to move them to the sides, just hide others.
00:20:26
◼►
Why did I never have this problem with ski goggles?
00:20:28
◼►
And the answer is that ski goggles, even though they look very similar and they even have the same kind of like foam around like the part that smushes against your face.
00:20:35
◼►
The thing with ski goggles is the goggles themselves are made of flexible plastic, rubberized plastic, and they bend.
00:20:44
◼►
So whatever size and shape your face is, they curve in kind of a U shape and the strap pulls them against your face and it bends them.
00:20:51
◼►
And then the foam makes up for the lumps of your face and all the other stuff.
00:20:54
◼►
And Vision Pro, obviously the aluminum part is not bending, at least you hope.
00:20:58
◼►
Now, the light shield, in theory, could accommodate this by being more accordion-like, but the light shield seems pretty rigid.
00:21:06
◼►
Like, the light shield will deform a little bit and it does have the interchangeable foamy pads on them.
00:21:12
◼►
But the sort of the gray body of the light shield, I wonder if they made that more accordion-like, more squishy so that pressing it against your face would mold that.
00:21:25
◼►
I guess part of the problem is that in ski goggles, the straps are pulling the plastic thing back on your face, but the straps don't attach to the light shield.
00:21:33
◼►
So there's nothing pulling the light shield back on your face, right?
00:21:36
◼►
Like, that's why I was saying I had little gaps by my temples because nothing is pulling that back on my face.
00:21:41
◼►
Now, obviously the entire metal frame is pushing the light shield against my face, but you don't want that to push too hard.
00:21:45
◼►
So anyway, that's just my thought on the fit of this.
00:21:47
◼►
I think if they make a second version of this, they should consider making the light shield more compliant.
00:21:52
◼►
I'm not suggesting they make the body of it bend, although they should make it out of plastic.
00:21:55
◼►
But I understand making the body of it bend is unfeasible with precisely aligned motorized displays inside there.
00:22:00
◼►
Like, I guess that's not going to happen.
00:22:01
◼►
But that's my thought about fit for another week of wearing this thing.
00:22:06
◼►
We are sponsored this episode by Paka.
00:22:09
◼►
You tried cotton, you tried cashmere, but have you tried alpaca?
00:22:12
◼►
It's softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, and still breathable.
00:22:16
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That is the Paka hoodie, and it's about to be your new go-to layer.
00:22:21
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Paka makes performance apparel from alpaca fiber, one of the world's most sustainable natural fibers.
00:22:26
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Their best-selling hoodie is softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, and breathable.
00:22:31
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So it's lightweight, but still cozy, it doesn't stretch out, it doesn't pill, and it somehow keeps you warm, even when it's cold, and cool when it's hot.
00:22:39
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Basically, it adapts to wherever life takes you.
00:22:42
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The Paka hoodie is built for your real life.
00:22:45
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It's thermoregulating, it's odor-resistant, it's durable and made to last.
00:22:48
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You don't have to baby it, you don't have to, like, specially, like, care for it very delicately.
00:22:53
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You can just treat it like a nice hoodie, because it is a nice hoodie.
00:22:56
◼►
Each one is handcrafted in Peru by artisans who stitch their name right into the tag, so it's really personal, and it's a signature of their quality and care.
00:23:04
◼►
Over 100,000 people have already picked up the Paka hoodie, and it's also, you know, made sustainably and ethically from traceable alpaca fiber, and it supports the communities and artisans in Peru who bring it to life.
00:23:16
◼►
So check it out, they sent me one to review, it's really nice, the fabric feels great, I haven't had too much time to, like, see how it lasts over time yet, but it feels really durable, I don't feel like I need to baby it, like, or, you know, make sure it doesn't, like, touch you or anything, like, it just, it feels good.
00:23:32
◼►
I haven't used alpaca before, but I've heard great things about it, and I was really excited to try it out.
00:23:36
◼►
Right now, when you order your alpaca hoodie, they'll throw in a free pair of their alpaca crew socks, which might be the only thing better than the hoodie.
00:23:42
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They're seriously great, they keep your feet dry, they don't stink, and they're just super cozy.
00:23:46
◼►
And they also have a lifetime guarantee, so Paka dares you to wear these out, and if you actually can, they'll replace them.
00:23:53
◼►
So, level up your hoodie game, this is your sign to do it now.
00:23:56
◼►
Grab your alpaca hoodie and a free pair of alpaca crew socks by heading to go.pakaapparel.com slash ATP, and use code ATP.
00:24:05
◼►
That's go.pakaapparel.com slash ATP, and enter code ATP.
00:24:11
◼►
Thanks to Paka for sponsoring our show.
00:24:35
◼►
A vapor chamber in the iPad Pro is on the roadmap.
00:24:37
◼►
Now, note I said iPad Pro, not MacBook Air.
00:24:41
◼►
Apple is now working on the feature with plans to integrate it as soon as the next round of updates.
00:24:44
◼►
The company's on an 18-month upgrade cycle for the iPad Pro, suggesting that the vapor chamber could be added around spring of 2027.
00:24:51
◼►
A vapor chamber would help distinguish the iPad Air and iPad Pro lines.
00:24:54
◼►
The Air has been drifting further into high-end territory.
00:24:57
◼►
It got a Pro-size 13-inch screen for 2024, and is set to receive an M4 chip next year.
00:25:02
◼►
So that doesn't answer the question about the Air, but it does mention the iPad Pro, quite obviously.
00:25:06
◼►
Yeah, so I think the vapor chamber is particularly useful for devices where you unmove heat, and it has to be really thin.
00:25:15
◼►
Because if you watch that vapor chamber video we linked ages ago, the key feature of the vapor chamber is really, really thin.
00:25:23
◼►
So if you're going to put this in a phone or in an iPad, and the iPad Pro is even thinner than the phone, you want something thin.
00:25:29
◼►
In the MacBook Air, they could just use a thermal pad or, like, you know, maybe there's not enough room for a heat pipe, but, like, they have more options in the MacBook Air.
00:25:36
◼►
That said, no one's going to turn their nose up at a vapor chamber in a MacBook Air, and it's conceivable that the MacBook Air could get thinner over time.
00:25:44
◼►
So I think it is an appropriate – I think the MacBook Air could use better heat movement.
00:25:51
◼►
I mean, we've seen that with Max Tech, always breaks them open and, like, adds whatever cooling thing they can think of inside there.
00:25:59
◼►
New thermal pads or some other thing, and that just makes such a huge difference.
00:26:02
◼►
And so you're like, there's room to make the MacBook Air spread its heat better.
00:26:07
◼►
And if it's not a vapor chamber, then something would be useful.
00:26:10
◼►
So I think Andy has a good idea, but it seems like Apple is going to put them into the iPad before they get to the MacBook Air, at least according to Garmer's rumors so far.
00:26:20
◼►
Like, you know, we've heard in the past, and I believe this has been verified, that, like, the MacBook Air, because of various, like, safety requirements, laptops can't get above a certain exterior temperature because they'll burn people's laps in certain regulatory requirements.
00:26:36
◼►
But basically, the MacBook Air does not conduct the heat from the processor directly to the exterior casing.
00:26:43
◼►
Instead, it kind of just heats up the, you know, the air cavity inside of the MacBook Air.
00:26:49
◼►
And that's, obviously, that's limiting in certain ways.
00:26:52
◼►
But it doesn't bond the heat directly to the exterior casing.
00:26:56
◼►
I wonder if they would switch to something like, you know, a vapor chamber, what are they moving the heat to?
00:27:04
◼►
Would it just be like, you know, some other larger piece of metal inside the case?
00:27:08
◼►
No, they put it to the case, like, just like they do on the phone.
00:27:11
◼►
Like, the whole point is if they had bonded the SoC to the case, it would make one little hot spot because it's harder for the heat to move through the thick aluminum case.
00:27:18
◼►
The whole point of a vapor chamber is it moves heat real quick from where it's produced to the outer edges, right?
00:27:23
◼►
So if you imagined a MacBook Air-sized vapor chamber, it would solve the problem of the hot spot in the case by not making the heat have to propagate through the relatively thick aluminum of the case and thus forming a really big hot spot that could burn your leg or whatever.
00:27:38
◼►
It would immediately spread it over a way bigger area, and that would solve the problem.
00:27:42
◼►
Like, I think that's – I'm not sure they would bond it to the case.
00:27:45
◼►
They might just have the heat pipe moving it more efficiently to areas where there is cooler air because you still do build up heat inside the case where the SoC is.
00:27:53
◼►
But I think they mostly vent – I have to look at the recent teardowns, but I think they're mostly venting the hot air from the MacBook Air out from, like, the little –
00:28:05
◼►
Like, that's where the fans blow on the ones that have fans.
00:28:09
◼►
Without the fans, I think it's venting out there.
00:28:11
◼►
And back in the day, remember, they used to vent a lot through the keyboard?
00:28:13
◼►
I think they still kind of do, I think.
00:28:15
◼►
Yeah, I think they do too because it's not like they're waterproof.
00:28:17
◼►
But, yeah, any time you can spread heat, I think – and especially since, like, the MacBook Air is – granted, it could make a hotspot or whatever, but it's not – you know, the amount of heat produced by the MacBook Air is much lower than, like, an M4 Max in a MacBook Pro.
00:28:31
◼►
So, I think any kind of spreader would make it suddenly viable to bond that to the aluminum.
00:28:37
◼►
I mean, also, keep in mind, like, the MacBook Air uses the same chips as the iPad Pro.
00:28:42
◼►
It's like, you know, this rumor of it coming to the iPad Pro.
00:28:44
◼►
Kind of – I mean, that would kind of make sense.
00:28:47
◼►
I mean, yeah, if they can spread it among a big enough area that it wouldn't create enough hotspots.
00:28:51
◼►
I do wonder, though – there's also another component here of cost.
00:28:55
◼►
You know, keep in mind, the MacBook Air sells for less than the iPhone Pro.
00:30:25
◼►
Like, you know, as a frequent MacBook Air owner, I've never cared about thermal throttling.
00:30:31
◼►
I've never even noticed it in my eye, including, you know, doing things on it like software development.
00:30:36
◼►
I've just never noticed it, you know, because I think you might notice it if you're doing, like, you know, video encoding every single day.
00:30:43
◼►
Yeah, some kind of batch job with the progress bar where you time and you're like, boy, this used to take 20 minutes, but now it's taking 37, you know.
00:30:49
◼►
But, yeah, unless you're really stressing it for, like, more than a couple of minutes straight regularly, I don't think you would even notice.
00:31:03
◼►
We were talking a lot about Apple's MLS deal and F1 deals in overtime last week, and somehow we all lost sight of the fact that the Apple MLS deal is actually worldwide, but it's for the American Major League Soccer thing.
00:31:19
◼►
I can't think of the word I'm looking for.
00:31:28
◼►
Anyways, reading from Apple's original newsroom post in June of 2022, the Apple TV app will be the exclusive destination to watch every single live MLS match from 2023 to 2032.
00:31:39
◼►
Jake Lee also pointed out Apple put up a billboard in Korea for it, too.
00:31:44
◼►
Sun Hong Min, one of the biggest players in Korea, recently moved to the Los Angeles football club, and Apple was marketing that hard here in Korea.
00:31:52
◼►
And we'll put a link in the show notes to that billboard.
00:31:56
◼►
And as everyone will point out, having the worldwide rights versus the U.S. rights to MLS are basically the same thing, because nobody else in the world cares about MLS.
00:32:04
◼►
At least that's what they all tell us.
00:32:05
◼►
We are sponsored this episode by Claude.
00:32:09
◼►
Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough.
00:32:13
◼►
Claude's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for you.
00:32:19
◼►
Whether you're debugging code in the middle of the night or strategizing your next business move at work, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter.
00:32:28
◼►
So, you know, we know a lot of the kinds of people who, like, can't just walk past a problem without wanting to solve it.
00:36:50
◼►
It is specifically this save files in directory shortcut option with the overwrite file if it exists option makes the files get written there,
00:36:59
◼►
stay there for some period of time, then later it deletes them.
00:37:02
◼►
It's the only thing that, you know, and again, if you just have it run a shell script,
00:37:05
◼►
and the shell script runs like the SIPs command line tool that does image processing stuff that's built into, that's included with macOS, that works fine.
00:37:13
◼►
So, I would say this mystery is essentially solved.
00:37:42
◼►
It could be one of the existing cameras moved there.
00:37:45
◼►
Yeah, this was about me saying, like, people were saying they should make the plateau the same, like, thickness as the camera thing, and that would be too much.
00:37:54
◼►
And they're like, well, you don't have to make the whole plateau thick.
00:37:55
◼►
Just put the camera on the other side.
00:37:58
◼►
They have lines of cameras that aren't in kind of like a three-dot cluster on one side, like, because Apple evolved from their notion that the cameras were in the corner, and they slowly expanded out from the corner until they were more than half the width of the phone.
00:38:11
◼►
But they were still clustered as if they were in the corner, but they weren't.
00:38:16
◼►
So, yeah, Apple could have done kind of a bug-eye thing or a two-in-one thing or spread the three out.
00:38:21
◼►
There's lots of things they could have done to make their phones not wobble, but apparently that is not an important design consideration, at least thus far on their phone.
00:38:28
◼►
And it's not like, oh, they don't want to look like they're imitating the other phones that do that.
00:38:32
◼►
They directly copied the Google Pixel's, like, thing on the back with the iPhone Air.
00:38:37
◼►
So I don't know what they're afraid of.
00:38:39
◼►
I still think they need to reconsider the camera arrangement.
00:38:42
◼►
But, yeah, I mean, hell, they don't need to make a camera.
00:38:46
◼►
They just have to put a nub over there.
00:38:47
◼►
Like, as I said, just put in some kind of, like, little nub or kickstand or ridge or who knows.
00:38:54
◼►
Like, I guess people don't care about their phones wobbling because I guess they're holding them most of the time.
00:38:57
◼►
Instead of putting them on the table, but oh, well.
00:39:00
◼►
Well, and also, like, most phone cases will just put a huge lip around the camera bump and level it out anyway.
00:39:05
◼►
So, like, most people use cases on their phones, and most phone cases remove this problem from being a problem anymore.
00:39:11
◼►
I don't think most phone cases do remove it.
00:39:52
◼►
We were telling Marco about how fantastically huge the Cheesecake Factory menu is because for some miraculous reason, Marco has never been to the Cheesecake Factory.
00:40:00
◼►
We recommend that he goes just to see the menu because it is so huge.
00:40:04
◼►
Now that he's a restaurant owner, he can appreciate what it must take to have a menu this big.
00:40:09
◼►
And Marco said, well, surely a lot of this stuff is frozen.
00:40:12
◼►
Like, there's no way you can have all this stuff available and not have stuff, you know, frozen.
00:40:16
◼►
Yeah, so we found—I don't know who pointed this out, I'm sorry, but somebody pointed to the Daily Meal website, which reads,
00:40:24
◼►
despite the fact that a long menu is usually a red flag that the food at a restaurant is pre-made and reheated, the opposite is the case of the Cheesecake Factory.
00:40:30
◼►
All 250 menu items or more are made from scratch every day with fresh ingredients.
00:40:36
◼►
But the same can't be said for the cheesecakes.
00:40:38
◼►
All the cheesecakes are delivered to the restaurant frozen and then defrosted before serving to customers.
00:40:42
◼►
There's no name associated with this because a lot of people sent this in.
00:40:44
◼►
And there's a lot of Cheesecake Factory fans out there who wanted to defend the honor of the Cheesecake Factory and say, no, it's not frozen.
00:40:52
◼►
And how excellent is it that a place called the Cheesecake Factory has all fresh food except the cheesecake, which made it a factory?
00:40:58
◼►
Well, so if you go through the history of the thing, it started with somebody who was making cheesecakes in their basement,
00:41:02
◼►
and then she was making the cheesecakes for the restaurant until it became, like, untenable for her to do it.
00:41:07
◼►
But anyway, frozen or not, the cheesecake at the Cheesecake Factory is good.
00:41:11
◼►
If you like cheesecake, they make good cheesecake.
00:41:14
◼►
So I'm not going to besmirch the frozen cheesecake.
00:41:41
◼►
The company is readying a revamped MacBook Pro with a touch display for late 2026 or early 2027.
00:41:50
◼►
The new laptops will feature OLED displays and will retain a full trackpad and keyboard.
00:41:54
◼►
The new machine's code name, K114K116, will also have thinner and lighter frames and run the M6 line of chips.
00:41:59
◼►
For the revamped MacBook Pro, Apple is retiring the notch.
00:42:02
◼►
In its place, the company will adopt a so-called hole punch design.
00:42:05
◼►
This will be similar in concept to the dynamic island on the phone.
00:42:08
◼►
The company has also developed a reinforced hinge in screen hardware to prevent the display from bouncing back or moving when touched, a common drawback of the existing touch PCs.
00:42:17
◼►
Because of the price of your components, the new 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pros are likely to cost a few hundred dollars more than the current versions.
00:42:23
◼►
As of now, Apple isn't actively developing additional touchscreen Macs.
00:42:27
◼►
Instead, it's waiting to see the market's reaction to the touch version of the MacBook Pro.
00:42:30
◼►
Earlier, Mark Gurman had written in a different article, Apple is investigating the idea of bringing cellular connectivity to the Mac.
00:42:38
◼►
Cellular connections are unlikely to come to the Mac before 2026 when Apple is planning a second-generation modem that includes support for faster speeds.
00:42:45
◼►
So this is a lot of existing OLED MacBook Pro rumors.
00:42:48
◼►
Like, again, the OLED MacBook Pro was originally rumored for this year.
00:42:51
◼►
Then they said it's actually going to be pushed next year.
00:42:53
◼►
So the rumors continue to say next year is the OLED year.
00:42:56
◼►
When we were talking about the M5 MacBook Pro, just the plain M5 one, I was saying this generation of M5 MacBook Pros will probably be your last chance to get this design because the new design is coming.
00:43:07
◼►
And it looks like the new design is going to be different in many, many ways.
00:43:13
◼►
Being thinner, maybe, you know, do you like the current trade-off in terms of size, weight, and battery life?
00:43:17
◼►
Will the thinner ones be better because of better battery chemistry?
00:43:59
◼►
This is the biggest change since the Apple, since these new, it's not the Apple Silicon ones because the first Apple Silicon ones look like the Intel ones.
00:44:05
◼►
But since whatever we're calling this new design, the kind of boxy ones that we've had for the, well, I guess, M2 through M5,
00:44:11
◼►
this will be the end of the line, seems like, for that design in the beginning of an all-new design with a lot of different potential trade-offs.
00:44:18
◼►
I'm not saying you should buy these because the new ones are going to be bad.
00:44:21
◼►
Maybe the new ones are going to be great and you should wait.
00:44:23
◼►
All I'm not saying is it's going to be a change.
00:44:25
◼►
And I find this fascinating because we've been waiting for touch Macs for ages, not because we're dying for them.
00:44:38
◼►
There was another rumor I didn't put in here of, like, the exact technology they're using to put the touch-sensitive thing in the OLED display.
00:44:44
◼►
It's some new tech that embeds the touch layer inside the OLED so it's not as thick and yada yada, whatever.
00:44:50
◼►
I don't, there's no rumors about software related to the touch thing, but, and I don't, I'm not predicting they should do this.
00:45:10
◼►
But how many times have you seen somebody who's accustomed to touch using a laptop and they just want to scroll a webpage and they reach out and do it.
00:45:18
◼►
Our dialogue comes up and it's just easier for them to just stab the okay button with their finger instead of hit the thing.
00:45:22
◼►
It's a thing that people do and that it's perfectly possible to do with Mac OS.
00:46:15
◼►
But I will, I will say that I have literally, I have literally pinched to zoom paper, print paper more than once, more than once, multiple, many times over my life.
00:46:25
◼►
I have literally put two fingers down on like a magazine page and pinch to make the text bigger.
00:46:38
◼►
And even if all it is, is scrolling and zooming, that would go a long way.
00:46:44
◼►
Because like the reality is, again, no matter what we think as nerds, this is what people are used to with every other device.
00:46:51
◼►
Every Windows PC of any, you know, note has had a touchscreen or at least had a touchscreen option for many years now.
00:47:00
◼►
And they added it because like the PC ecosystem is so diverse, someone's going to try everything.
00:47:04
◼►
And once somebody tried it and they're like, people, but first of all, people didn't object to it.
00:47:08
◼►
And second of all, once it becomes like a thing that you have and, you know, your competitor has, but you don't, you're like, well, maybe we should add that too.
00:47:14
◼►
And people just got used to it being there.
00:47:18
◼►
Now, was Windows redesigned to be a touch interface?
00:47:24
◼►
But like the PC manufacturers didn't have to like, it was like, well, we can't put touch on our laptops until Windows is radically redesigned so that everything is accessible with your fingertip.
00:47:35
◼►
They just made, they just put touch screens on it and people started using them.
00:47:38
◼►
And it's like the market has decided that this is a desirable enough feature to justify what I assume is the fairly minimal cost for the touch layer to be added to the screens of laptops.
00:47:47
◼►
And the reality is like most people out there in the world, especially as you go younger or more novice, most people assume that every screen is a touch screen and they will try to touch it.
00:47:57
◼►
And if it doesn't work like a touch screen, they're going to either think it's broken or they're going to think it's not as good as things that are touch screens.
00:48:04
◼►
So you have huge market pressure to do it.
00:48:06
◼►
And, you know, it's one of those cases where we, I think, have talked a lot about like, you know, purity and like what John was just saying, like waiting until we can redesign everything to do it right, which would be a terrible idea for macOS.
00:48:18
◼►
But, you know, like waiting until the perfection is possible.
00:48:21
◼►
And this is the thing that Apple, Apple and us, but, you know, Apple often gets stuck in this kind of thinking of, you know, they can't just pinch those and do something imperfect.
00:48:32
◼►
They wait until they can do something perfectly.
00:48:35
◼►
And in the meantime, they don't address it at all or have something horribly broken, you know, like the because the perfect is the enemy of the good.
00:48:41
◼►
And sometimes they compromise on their perfect pure vision.
00:48:45
◼►
For instance, slowly turning the iPad Pro into a laptop, which is what they have done.
00:48:51
◼►
Like the iPad, it used to the iPad originally was like you pretty much only were intended to use it in portrait orientation unless you were watching some video and you could rotate it.
00:49:01
◼►
And remember the first keyboard for the iPad that came out with the iPad one that was portrait.
00:49:07
◼►
And then everyone was like, hey, you know, this thing actually can work if you just turn it to its side and put a bigger keyboard on the bottom.
00:49:15
◼►
And then eventually Apple made the iPad Pro and made their own keyboard that held it to the side.
00:49:20
◼►
But still the camera was on the wrong side and the logo on the wrong side and everything like they were like they were insisting.
00:49:25
◼►
This is this is an everything device, but mainly a portrait device.
00:49:42
◼►
Now they have resizable windows and like the finder kind of sort of and they have the dock kind of sort of like they've turned it into a laptop.
00:49:50
◼►
All of this was in complete violation of their pure idea, the pure design, the pure ethos.
00:50:00
◼►
And it made the product generally better for everyone because either you didn't have to use that stuff and you could keep using it the way you always were or you could use it the way you actually wanted to like like more of a laptop.
00:50:11
◼►
And it turns out the iPad is a pretty good laptop for a lot of people.
00:50:14
◼►
And so I think thinking about touch on the Mac, we should think about it the same way.
00:50:20
◼►
The Mac is not going to be a great touch screen device, probably ever, just the same way that Windows PCs aren't great touch screen devices.
00:50:27
◼►
But a lot of people want that and are assuming that will be there and are disappointed when it's not there or they have bad experiences because it's not there and they try it and it fails.
00:50:36
◼►
And so even though we don't want fingerprints all over our screens, similarly to how many iPad users don't want or use any of the multitasking features and never connect the keyboard to their iPads.
00:50:47
◼►
There are so many people who want their MacBook Pros or their MacBooks to have touch screens and assume they will and have bad experiences because they don't that it's it should be there.
00:50:59
◼►
It's it has reached the point of popularity and user pressure now that they should have touch screens.
00:51:03
◼►
I mean, it reached that point a while ago.
00:51:11
◼►
And I think when Apple executives always talked about this, they've even back when Steve Jobs was still alive, I think he said similar things like, oh, your arm gets tired, having your arm up, touching a Mac, touch Macs are no good.
00:51:22
◼►
But obviously with laptops, especially if you're literally using it on your lap, the screen isn't out in front of your eyeline like an ergonomically correct desktop display.
00:51:46
◼►
And I don't know how they'll spin it, but it's like all I'm saying is I think that this doesn't mean that like the new Apple display, which they'll come out with someday, I swear, will be a touch screen.
00:51:56
◼►
Because look, in the PC world, there is not a huge number of desktop displays that are touch displays because it is tiring to have your finger up like that.
00:52:04
◼►
Now, I'm sure there are some and especially if you have like a drafting table style touch PC, that's a different ball of wax.
00:52:13
◼►
But Apple has never really made one of those.
00:52:16
◼►
Although if they made one of those, it should probably run iPad OS or something.
00:52:18
◼►
But like if they do it, what I'm saying is if they do this with laptops, I would imagine, as the article says, although God knows how he could possibly know this, like, oh, they're going to they're going to do it on the laptops and then just wait and see.
00:52:29
◼►
And if people like it, maybe they'll expand it out or whatever.
00:52:32
◼►
But yeah, laptops first makes perfect sense for putting the touch on things.
00:52:36
◼►
And again, it will be fun to see how they market this.
00:53:48
◼►
Originally when I put this in here, it was like these, this German article was like other Macs in development, MacBook Air, Mac Studio, Mac Mini, just not even a mention of the Mac Pro from German.
00:53:58
◼►
But then Brendan Shanks to the rescue.
00:54:01
◼►
Brendan Shanks writes new and Xcode 26.1 beta three.
00:54:05
◼►
This is a, I believe a constant CPU family underscore arm underscore Hydra.
00:54:11
◼►
H-I-D-R-A, which is listed as H-1-7-G.
00:54:15
◼►
We discussed that, uh, which is apparently an island.
00:54:25
◼►
It's not the multi-headed beast of Greek myth versus H-Y-D-R-A.
00:54:28
◼►
Anyway, um, this was supposedly the, uh, uh, code name for a, uh, uh, Apple Silicon chip that has not been released.
00:54:36
◼►
That is potentially a large beefy chip that would be suitable for a Mac Pro, even though German's not even mentioning that.
00:54:43
◼►
It's like, oh, here's some, the Mac rumors for the next year.
00:54:46
◼►
They're going to update these Macs and those Macs and those, not even a mention of the Mac Pro, not even like no news in the Mac Pro or Mac Pro, you know, like just nothing just doesn't even get mentioned.
00:54:54
◼►
Maybe the product is canceled, but then in the new beta of X code, a constant sleep sneaks through that mentions the rumored code name of a chip.
00:55:03
◼►
That as far as we know has not shipped is not one of the M5 chips slated for the, uh, MacBook Pros.
00:55:09
◼►
Uh, it could be a Mac Pro ship, or it could just be the beefy chip that they ship in the next Mac studio and the Mac Pro really is dead.
00:55:17
◼►
Who knows what will happen, but here I am out here trying to sell those Mac Pro Believe shirts, uh, wearing mine in my heart every day.
00:55:25
◼►
We are sponsored this episode by Skims.
00:55:30
◼►
Now I, like many of you, I probably, I wear underwear.
00:55:34
◼►
In fact, I would say I wear underwear almost every day.
00:55:38
◼►
And Skims is now making underwear for men.
01:17:21
◼►
Cellular and tethering have been really unreliable to the point where I'm frequently having to reboot the iPhone to get cellular data to keep working.
01:17:33
◼►
And that's oftentimes happening when I'm tethering with a laptop.
01:17:38
◼►
So I don't know if tethering is somehow,
01:17:40
◼►
like I don't know if it's like a Tahoe bug that's breaking the phone cell connection
01:17:44
◼►
or if the phone has a broken tethering implementation.
01:17:48
◼►
This is also all to say that that was all only with the betas of 26.1.
01:29:46
◼►
anti-marco armen s-i-r-a-c-u-s-a-s-y-r-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a-c-u-s-a. It's accidental. Accidental. They didn't mean to. Accidental. Accidental. Tech podcast. So long.
01:30:06
◼►
All right, John. So you've had some more time with, I'm going to call it your Vision Pro, at least for now. And I was wondering, have you done any other things with it? You said in the main show that you tried another attempt at Mac virtual display and that went better. Have you done any of the other stuff? And one of the things I was most curious about, and maybe this will be a short conversation if you haven't done it yet, but when we talked a few months ago, there was that Bono documentary, one-man show thing, not documentary, like a one-man show.
01:30:36
◼►
That came out and they had the same source material, but they treated it two very different ways. And there's a non-immersive version where it's just him on stage by himself chatting and talking to you slash at you. But the immersive version is way, way, way different with lots of animations and stuff. Have you had the time to at least watch a portion of the immersive version of the Bono thing?
01:31:01
◼►
When I talked about my experiences with the M2, with Casey's M2 Vision Pro, one of the things I left out was a lot of the stuff that I had already done with it, just because it's kind of some of the same things that you guys had already done. And one of those was watching a lot of the content.
01:31:14
◼►
And so, yes, I did watch the immersive version of the Bono thing, not the whole thing, but I scrubbed around and watched it because I'd seen the whole thing before and I didn't want to sit through the whole thing again.
01:31:23
◼►
And it is very different. Like they really do spend a lot of energy embellishing with graphics and stuff.
01:31:29
◼►
Now, I'm not sure if it adds much to the experience.
01:31:32
◼►
It's like it's certainly there's lots of more visual flair and lots of interest and makes it makes it so there's more things for you to look at than just like the guy's face talking or whatever.
01:31:42
◼►
But I'm not sure how successful it is artistically as an interesting experiment, but I feel like the like the boring like non-Vision Pro, you can just watch it on your television version, gets you most of that experience and maybe less distracting.
01:31:55
◼►
So I wasn't that big of a fan of that.
01:31:57
◼►
I did watch not all the other content.
01:32:00
◼►
In fact, one of the things that I realized I forgot because Steve Trout and Smith's got a Vision Pro now and he's going through some stuff and I forgot to try like the Disney immersive environments.
01:32:08
◼►
Like there's one for Alien Earth, which I just talked about in a recent rec diffs and there's like Star Wars-y ones and like there's some Marvel stuff.
01:32:22
◼►
But I did watch like a lot of the that that one line of immersive content with the demos and she's like, where's all the immersive content?
01:32:36
◼►
Surprisingly, one of the ones I found most affecting was the the Highline one where the woman is walking on a tightrope above thing.
01:32:45
◼►
And I'm not particularly scared of heights, but I feel like that that was an effective use of a thing that is you don't get as big an effect.
01:32:52
◼►
On a flat screen as you do in a 3D appearance.
01:34:40
◼►
So it was just shot like a documentary.
01:34:42
◼►
We're like, OK, the cameras were on the sidelines watching the motorcycles go by.
01:34:46
◼►
And the cameras were on the guy when he was in, you know, getting ready in his trailer and talking, you know, to his coaches and everything like that.
01:34:53
◼►
And the reason I found compelling was when I thought it was like a good story of, you know, this underdog athlete, it's a French rider.
01:34:59
◼►
A French person has not won this French Grand Prix in like 70 years.
01:35:04
◼►
And how is, you know, is he going to do it?
01:35:06
◼►
And he he keeps falling and he's having problems.
01:35:09
◼►
And, you know, like it's it's it's underdog type sports story.
01:35:12
◼►
One of the things I found most interesting about it was to get an up close look at those motorcycles, because that interests me.
01:35:19
◼►
Yeah, like like you're because you're like the cameras are like inches from these motorcycles.
01:35:23
◼►
Because you can and I guess it's part of the 3D is like it feels like it's really there because you've got the 3D camera.
01:35:28
◼►
But these motorcycles are amazing looking.
01:35:29
◼►
I'm more interested in these than I am at F1 cars at this point, maybe because I know more about F1 cars than I do about the motorcycles.
01:35:35
◼►
But like just how they're put together and how they differ from like a road bike, like these racing bicycles and like the equipment that he puts on.
01:35:42
◼►
And like just I found that fascinating and super interesting.
01:35:46
◼►
And that and I think I would have found that just as fascinating outside the Vision Pro.
01:35:52
◼►
just a flat 2D thing, because, again, it wasn't really taking much advantage of the immersive thing.
01:35:58
◼►
Maybe when you're up close to the motorcycle.
01:36:06
◼►
Again, not nothing to do with the Vision Pro-ness, just to do with the like short film.
01:36:11
◼►
Like it's very challenging to make a compelling short film.
01:36:13
◼►
And I think that one was like, yeah, like just I don't I don't know if it was scripted well and the number of events took place and the characterization and just it didn't all work that well.
01:36:22
◼►
If you have a fear of being submerged in water, maybe you'll find it more affecting.
01:36:26
◼►
But the Metallica one, I watched all of that one.
01:36:28
◼►
I am not a Metallica fan, but I feel like I know what it's like to be on a Metallica concert now.
01:36:33
◼►
And I think job done short film, right?
01:36:35
◼►
Like it may like if you're ever wondering what those shows are like, this is feels like what they're like, you know, like it gave me that experience.
01:36:44
◼►
And it let me see the band performing.
01:36:47
◼►
It was a little bit of the production, a little bit hokey with sort of over dramatizing and slow-mo pans on the person's face backstage when they're probably bored out of their mind.
01:36:56
◼►
But you get to see how the band performs, how they're, you know, what what what what do people like about Metallica?
01:37:03
◼►
I think it conveys that again, I don't like particularly like Metallica, but I you watch this and you understand what people like about Metallica.
01:37:14
◼►
And before you move on from that, the moment that Marco and I talked about a lot when the James Hetfield, I think is the singer's name is like right in the face of the fan.
01:37:40
◼►
Did that affect you in any way, shape or form?
01:37:43
◼►
Or are you just kind of like, yeah, whatever?
01:37:44
◼►
Yeah, no, I remember you guys talking about it and I wasn't looking for it.
01:37:48
◼►
But when it came up, I'm like, oh, that must be the thing they were talking about because it was affecting.
01:37:51
◼►
And here's the thing about all these little short films.
01:37:53
◼►
The hard part is not the Vision Pro part.
01:37:56
◼►
The hard part is making a compelling short film.
01:37:58
◼►
That moment is compelling outside the Vision Pro.
01:38:01
◼►
The reason you're reacting to that is because it's one of the more affecting moments in the short film and other parts are less so.
01:38:06
◼►
So like it's kind of like any type of thing where there's a technology, you know, like the movie with like the, you know, the trains coming out of the screen with the first moving pictures.
01:38:13
◼►
Like you can do that once or twice, but eventually it's like, OK, well, show me a compelling story.
01:38:17
◼►
I'm no longer interested in in the the fascinating medium of the moving picture.
01:38:21
◼►
Now you got to actually write a good script, get good actors.
01:38:24
◼►
And, you know, like I feel like Vision Pro, these little demo things demonstrate that because very quickly the Vision Pro-ness takes a backseat to.
01:38:32
◼►
Is this a thing that I find interesting to watch?
01:38:35
◼►
You know, and you can make interesting little short things and you can also make ones that just feel kind of flat.
01:38:41
◼►
And what I find is that very quickly I started judging all these based on how much I would like them if I was just watching them on a TV.
01:38:50
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Even like I said, even the Highline one, I think that's good, even if you're not in a Vision Pro.
01:38:54
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Now the Vision Pro-ness adds to it, but that can only be an ad.
01:38:59
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It can't make up for, you know, a bad script, a bad story, bad editing or whatever.
01:39:04
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And the other thing I'll add in all this content that I'm watching so far, I haven't watched the parkour one.
01:39:10
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So far, fingers crossed, zero motion sickness.
01:39:31
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You know, I got to say, I am not prone to motion sickness, but, and I can't remember a specific example of a particular moment, but there's been times, particularly in flight, where not that I've been motion sick, but I've had a little bit of like maybe light vertigo where I'm kind of like-
01:39:45
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In flight as in you're on an airplane wearing the Vision Pro?
01:39:55
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And I mean, this will happen to, or like, I think during Submerged, if I recall correctly, we talked about this,
01:40:01
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that there was a moment where the camera's moving and it's, it's just kind of off-putting, not, I'm making it out to be worse than it is, but it's a little bit off-putting because your body expects to feel.
01:40:12
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And all the feelings that you associate with your body moving because the camera's moving, but you're stationary and yet your body's expecting a feeling it's not getting.
01:40:22
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And it's, it's, again, it's a lightly off-putting.
01:40:25
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And, and I feel like I've gotten that from time to time when doing like flying scenes, which is weird to say, to hear you say that you're unaffected by it because you're, you're affected by everything.
01:40:52
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Um, but you know, like, you know, I, my memory of these and my ranking of them has nothing to do with the, the, how well they take advantage of the vision pro.
01:41:01
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And I, you know, you guys talked a lot about like, what's too much cuts, what's not enough or whatever.
01:41:06
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I, you're right that like cutting too much doesn't lend itself well to the vision pro, but also again, if these were flat 2d, bad editing is bad thing, right?
01:41:15
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Like, like it's, it's, uh, it's difficult to, to pull this off with or without the 3d cameras.
01:41:21
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Um, and it's a challenge to make compelling content yet.
01:41:23
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So I haven't seen every single thing, but I've seen a lot of the stuff and I will go back and watch the rest of it just because each one of them, I feel like, you know,
01:41:30
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I'd like to see someone, you know, and I don't blame like the submerged people or anything.
01:41:34
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I was like, it's new technology that let's, let's figure out what we can do.
01:41:40
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Like I think a lot of the shot design and editing and submerged does not work, but someone's got to try it to find that out.
01:41:46
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You know, it on paper, it looks like it might be compelling in practice.
01:41:50
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Uh, having shallow depth of field, uh, is not really great inside the vision probe because your eyes try to focus on the part that they can't focus on.
01:41:57
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And it's never going to come into focus.
01:41:59
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That's, that's the part that gives me, I think a little bit of motion sickness, like, or at least like eye strain or like some version of it.
01:42:06
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Like I, like whenever I, whenever I try to focus on something that, that is no, that is not in focus and I can't focus on it, that messes with my feelings.
01:42:17
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We talked about this when we were, before the vision bro came out about like having variable focal and the various technologies to do that.
01:42:22
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But that doesn't exist in the vision pro it's a fixed focal distance.
01:42:25
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Um, and so when anything's out of focus, it will never be in focus.
01:42:28
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Um, and the way that manifested not for motion sickness, but for like eye crossingly headache inducing annoyingness.
01:42:37
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It's on the moto GP one people talk in French and they have subtitles and this is, I don't know if it's an inherent problem of the vision pro, but the choice they made to deal with this was difficult because here's the thing with the subtitles.
01:42:49
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The subtitles are on the screen as like a tinted black rectangle with white text on it or whatever.
01:42:55
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Uh, you're watching the vision pro you're watching these guys.
01:42:57
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They're walking around by the motorcycle or they're sitting on a couch talking to each other.
01:43:00
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He's riding on a stationary bike or whatever.
01:43:02
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And he's talking and the subtitle stuff appears very, very often the subtitle stuff in like picture space on the screen was not at the depth.
01:43:26
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Like it looks like it's floating between this guy and that guy or like two feet in front of the couch, but it's not there.
01:43:32
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I have to like to look at these subtitles.
01:43:35
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They're overlaid on top of everything.
01:43:36
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I have to focus on whatever the fixed focal distance of the display is, but my eyes would try to focus on not the fixed focal distance of the display, but like further into the image where it looks like that thing is hovering in the space of the 2d image that's behind it.
01:43:52
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And it would make me essentially go cross-eyed and double vision on.
01:43:55
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I couldn't read the subtitles because I kept double visioning.
01:44:07
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They are at the fixed focal distance of the display and you have to focus on them there.
01:44:14
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Even though looking at that part of the picture, which by the way, you can see through the little subtitle thing, right?
01:44:18
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Even though focusing on that part of the picture, like Marco said, would require you to focus on a distance that is not the same as the focal distance of the vision pro.
01:44:26
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And so you're getting that Marco when you just see a blurry version in the, you know, on the screen, I'm getting it trying to read the subtitles.
01:44:33
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And that's a difficult problem because it's so convincing that the subtitles are there floating in the scene that it causes my eyes to pick the wrong focal distance.
01:44:42
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So maybe I could get used to it or maybe they could put the, put the subtitles lower down or make them opaque or I don't know, like make them go edge to edge.
01:44:52
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So they, so it's so clear that they couldn't possibly be floating, floating between the ottoman and the couch, you know, like it's a tricky problem to have, but it's something I didn't, I didn't think of before.
01:45:02
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Subtitles in a fixed vision, fixed focal length VR subtitles.
01:45:06
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Your brain might think they are not where they are and you might get double vision.
01:45:10
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Yeah, it's very, when, when you're, I don't know if it's just like me or my eyes or like the way my eyes work.
01:45:19
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I don't know what it is, but like when I, like in real life, in regular life, as I have needed reading glasses for up close focus over the last, you know, three, three to four years, when I am not wearing reading glasses or progressives, and when I try to look at something up close that, that I can't get sharp, it causes similar kind of like eye strain.
01:45:39
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Like I, and I think people who have lived with imperfect vision for their whole lives, maybe, maybe they're more used to it than I am and maybe it doesn't have the same, you know, effect or noticeability for them.
01:45:50
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But for me, it's like really uncomfortable and I start getting like headaches and eye strain and, you know, like it's, it's very uncomfortable for me to be unable to focus on something that, that I'm trying to read or, or look at.
01:46:04
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Um, and so I switch to glasses whenever possible or avoid doing those things, you know, close up when I can't in the vision pro, nothing is ever that much in focus.
01:46:15
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And I have the reading inserts for it.
01:46:17
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They don't seem to make a difference for the distance that it's rendering things at.
01:46:21
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And it's because of, as we were mentioning earlier, all of those different layers of image processing and slight, you know, softening or sampling or warping that are occurring to make all the optics work in the vision pro.
01:46:35
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Nothing in the vision pro is super sharp to my eyes.
01:46:38
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Some things are more than others, but like nothing is really, really sharp all the time.
01:46:44
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And when I'm watching immersive video, that is made even more obvious to me.
01:46:49
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And part of that's just because immersive video oftentimes is not shot super high resolutions or not delivered at super high resolutions yet because everything is so young around it.
01:46:56
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Uh, but also part of that is just like the screens and the realities of it and the optics of things not being fully in focus.
01:47:02
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And so when I'm watching that immersive video, so often I'm feeling that same eye strain feeling that as I'm, as if I'm trying to read my phone without my glasses on and I can't quite get it sharp.
01:47:14
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And it really throws me off and it makes me feel like kind of unwell and certainly unpleasant.
01:47:20
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And I don't know if I'll ever be able to solve that problem.
01:47:23
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That might just be how my eyes react to that kind of thing.
01:47:26
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Maybe this will just never work for me.
01:47:30
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Uh, I, I think the eye strain you're talking about, like it's, it's less familiar to me because I'm nearsighted, which means I can't see things far away.
01:47:37
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Uh, and when you can't see things far away, there is no thing that my, my understanding, at least my experience and some optometrists can write in and tell me if I'm wrong about this, uh, is that there's nothing the muscles that squish your eyeball can do to make you see things far away.
01:48:11
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Uh, if you're looking at something that's up close, what you're trying to do is have those muscles in your eye, squish your eyeball so that it can focus on the things that are closer to you.
01:48:21
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And as you get older, uh, your lens gets less flexible because it gets harder and yellowed and gross and just like the rest of your body.
01:48:29
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Um, and, and the lens doesn't squish as much, but damned if your muscles in your eye won't try to squish it.
01:48:37
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And that's, I feel like that eye strain feeling.
01:48:40
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I can get that by either putting on my distance contacts or putting on my distance glasses and trying to look at my phone screen.
01:48:45
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And my eyes are like, come on, squish those frigging lenses just a little bit more and you'll be able to focus.
01:48:53
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And it's never going to happen because you're old and lenses just aren't going to squish like that anymore.
01:48:59
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And you get eye strain, uh, if that's happening inside the vision pro, like maybe I don't know what the solution is, but like I, I went back and forth on this back when the vision pro came out and also for this M2 one to figure out what I was going to do with my contact lenses and stuff.
01:49:14
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Um, I'm pretty sure Apple recommends, according to all the texts that I could find, they use your distance glasses prescription in the vision pro, which makes me think Marco that you should not be using any kind of lenses.
01:49:26
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If you don't need a glasses to drive, if your distance vision is uncorrected, then you shouldn't have any lenses in the vision pro.
01:50:04
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And I, and it seems like it's a combination of like low resolution of the signal and also, you know, the optics of not having everything in the scene be in focus.
01:50:15
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And, and it just, it never looks good to me.
01:50:18
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It always looks a little bit soft, a little bit blurry or a lot blurry if I'm trying to look around the scene more.
01:50:24
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And all it, like the only way I can watch immersive video on the vision pro without having really bad eye problems or motion sickness or other things is if I diligently never look at the periphery.
01:50:37
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If I only look straight ahead and never look around the scene, which is really hard because you can see the whole scene.
01:50:44
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So I always want to look, Hey, what's over there?
01:50:46
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Like it's really hard to not look around.
01:50:49
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And to be clear, what you're talking about is moving your eyeballs, not moving your head.
01:51:03
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But, but the problem is the video itself is not shot with the edges of the scene in focus, but you can see what's there sort of.
01:51:10
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And it's just, that comes down to what the, what the video content is.
01:51:13
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But like I was saying, when I was comparing the iPad to the vision pro, I can tell that the vision pro has less dots per degree than the iPad held at the distance close to my face that I, in my retina iPad.
01:51:24
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You know, like it looks softer, but I, I mean, TV looks softer before it was HD as well.
01:51:32
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Like 720p versus 1080 versus 240 or whatever standard def was.
01:51:36
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I, I like softer video video with less information bothers me less.
01:51:43
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It seems like what your eyes are constantly trying to make those sharper as if, as if you have like your distance glasses on and you're trying to read your, as if you were trying to look at your phone without your reading glasses.
01:51:53
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Right. And you're like, if I just, if my eyeballs just squish a little bit, surely that becomes sharper, but like you're never going to add more pixels to that display.
01:51:59
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And maybe your vision is good enough to really see the limitations of them.
01:52:03
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I, I, again, I see the softness as well.
01:52:05
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Like I said, with Mac virtual display, I see how much less crisp it is than the actual display, but I also see how much more crisp it is in the 3k display on the Intel thing.
01:52:15
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But my eyes are not saying if only you squish more, that will get sharper.
01:52:19
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It's just, I'm accepting of the, the resolution that it is.
01:52:22
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Um, and, and speaking of Steve Trouten-Smith, who's got his as well, he's like, I don't think they need to add any more pixels to these display.
01:52:29
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They need to more, add more pixels to these display.
01:52:31
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Like it's not pressing, but like technology should march on in the next few decades.
01:52:35
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If they can add twice or four times as many pixels to these displays, first of all, field division has to get bigger.
01:52:42
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Like the FOV, I forget what it is, but it is narrow and that could be much better.
01:52:47
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And second of all, even within the existing FOV, we need more pixels.
01:52:51
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Like, I think you should be able to get it so that it is the same number of pixels per degree as a retina display at normal viewing distances.
01:52:58
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And even then I would say you could go a little bit farther if you wanted to make it look more realistic than a retina display.
01:53:04
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Because let's be honest, even though you, I can't see the retina pixels, kind of see them a little bit if you get real close.
01:53:11
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So do you have, I'm sorry, maybe you said this and I missed it.
01:53:18
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I'm working on that, but I currently do not have them.
01:53:20
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So I'm, I'm, uh, you know, knowing that I have to do vision, uh, that my distance vision, I am trying to cobble together.
01:53:28
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A set of distance vision contact lenses from old and new contact lenses that I have hanging around because unfortunately my eyes are, my eyes are different from each other.
01:53:35
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And my actual real current contact prescription intentionally has one eye for distance and one eye for up close, which sounds terrible, but it's better than not being able to read your phone with your contacts.
01:53:44
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And believe me, and your brain gets used to it.
01:53:46
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Um, so I'm cobbling together a slightly inaccurate, uh, prescription with contacts, which means every time I want to use the vision pro, I have to put in contacts because as soon as I'm done using the vision pro, I need to take those out.
01:53:58
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Because I cannot use a computer or a phone with those contacts.
01:54:01
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And so it's kind of a, it's kind of an ordeal to use the vision pro, which is, uh, you know, if, if, and when I get lens inserts, that will go a long way towards making it easier just to pop on the vision pro.
01:54:11
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What I will say though, is I've become very good at using the vision pro without contacts in like I take off my glasses and I put on the vision pro and it's as blurry as hell in there.
01:54:21
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It's like, you know, 20, 350, 24, like whatever my vision is like without them.
01:54:26
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But if you know what the UI looks like and you know, can sense changes in like saturation and brightness, like I can actually use the UI.
01:54:34
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The problem is like, when I was trying to like, I was trying to test the, like hold down on the X button thing that, uh, that, uh, who was it?
01:54:54
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Maybe like if, because I knew what it was supposed to say beforehand, I could believe that.
01:54:58
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And then, you know, I could select the option and do it or whatever.
01:55:01
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So I don't recommend using the vision pro that way, but let's be honest.
01:55:04
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If I take off my glasses and walk around the house, it's a very similar experience.
01:55:09
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So, uh, uh, sitting here now, what a week and a half, two weeks in or whatever it's been, uh, vision pro quote unquote ownership, uh, granted the price was incredible.
01:55:20
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So the price was right for you, but do you, uh, on a broad level, and I'll probably ask you this again in a couple of weeks.