00:00:29 ◼ ► Yeah, people might be wondering why the release is late, and the answer is it's an Apple embargo, that's why.
00:00:56 ◼ ► I also have the Cortex wallpaper from being a Relay member of my brother since he enjoys that show.
00:01:11 ◼ ► We have our chat with you and me and Stephen Hackett has a bubbly gray background that is animated.
00:01:22 ◼ ► Yeah, I had one on the one I have about college football with Casey and Stephen, but I think Stephen basically rolled in there and was like, nope, take it out.
00:01:33 ◼ ► Because I had pictures of college football or pictures of us doing college football or whatever, you know, going to a game, and that didn't work out.
00:01:42 ◼ ► My chat with my family has a picture of our front yard in it, and the icon for the family chat is the sign on the house number.
00:01:52 ◼ ► And the Magnum PI podcast I do with David Lohr and Philip Michaels, we have a picture of Hawaii, as you might expect.
00:02:03 ◼ ► So nothing, I haven't been doing a lot of dressing up of my messages, mostly because I find them kind of distracting.
00:02:12 ◼ ► Although I am now going to download one of the upgrade wallpapers and set it as ours and just see what it looks like.
00:02:18 ◼ ► I've never considered wallpapers as a thing to use for this, but I guess this is exactly what they are, you know?
00:02:50 ◼ ► But if you have a question to help us open a future episode of the show, just go to UpgradeFeedback.com and you can send in a Snell Talk question of your own.
00:03:07 ◼ ► A few people have recommended, including you, this article on a website called Dr. Buho.
00:03:28 ◼ ► I did the terminal commands and it actually made things worse for me because now Spotlight can't find most apps that I'm searching for.
00:03:48 ◼ ► If I type in settings or system, all it does is surface for me like deep links into settings rather than actually the settings app.
00:03:57 ◼ ► Our esteemed audio editor, Jim Metzendorf, recommended using Alfred to rebuild the index because they kind of have a custom, like a customized terminal command.
00:04:07 ◼ ► I did that and that also has not worked, although the indexing wasn't complete, but it still wasn't finding these like basic apps from Apple.
00:04:19 ◼ ► This Reddit thread is the problem I'm having during the public beta and it has some additional terminal steps that I may need to try.
00:04:30 ◼ ► They've been writing into me and sending me things on social media that are having the same problem.
00:04:34 ◼ ► I don't, I feel like I don't understand what's going on here for like what is essentially the premier feature of Tahoe, like outside of liquid glass is Spotlight.
00:04:44 ◼ ► And it is, for me, like demonstrably worse than the Spotlight it replaces because it can't even open apps reliably.
00:05:20 ◼ ► I have the same thing where sometimes the clipboard history just vanishes and will never come back until I restart.
00:05:28 ◼ ► A bunch of people have said like they just, the clipboard history has never worked for them too.
00:05:49 ◼ ► My biggest takeaway is all the jokes have been done and have been done way too many times.
00:05:55 ◼ ► If anything, I'm disappointed that it happened so close to our recording time because we also just made jokes that then I put Mastodon and Saw 50,000 times.
00:06:12 ◼ ► Have you had any additional thoughts on Apple and Apple TV and maybe their strategies here?
00:06:35 ◼ ► If you're actually going to have a bunch of home products coming, could you rename it to whatever the name of that line is?
00:06:56 ◼ ► And I know that they've got it in the HomePod too, but you could call all of those things HomePods if you really wanted to, and that would be fine.
00:07:06 ◼ ► But my thought was maybe you could create a brand for your home products and tuck this under there instead of calling it Apple TV.
00:07:24 ◼ ► We might talk about this later on, but Eddie Q was on The Town, one of our favorite podcasts.
00:07:50 ◼ ► Like, yeah, it's confusing in places, but so much of Apple's naming is confusing in places.
00:08:40 ◼ ► Again, this is one of those things where I get frustrated sometimes by a lack of imagination
00:08:45 ◼ ► in people who are like supporters of Apple, where they're like, oh, Apple couldn't do that.
00:08:58 ◼ ► So if they thought that it was in their best interests to create a brand name and a product
00:09:03 ◼ ► line for their home products and rebrand stuff and rebadge it to be HomePod this and HomePod
00:09:12 ◼ ► You might disagree and think it's not worth it and all of that, but I'm always surprised
00:09:22 ◼ ► That was my suggestion anyway, was maybe if you really do have a whole bunch of home products
00:09:27 ◼ ► that you're going to launch here, the best thing to do is to tuck the TV product and the
00:09:36 ◼ ► Like theoretically a doorbell camera or security cameras is coming as well, according to Mark
00:09:47 ◼ ► A name with the word home in it, whether you call it Apple home, you could call it Apple
00:10:00 ◼ ► I just, I feel like something would be good and put it under the home brand, whatever that
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00:11:50 ◼ ► So, last week, Apple announced via selection of press releases a plethora, a smorgasbord,
00:12:19 ◼ ► We have, maybe the Vision Pro is like one of those cheeses that's got like fruit in it,
00:12:48 ◼ ► With a new ultra fast CPU, performance cores, a re-architected GPU, memory bandwidth increases,
00:13:27 ◼ ► But the efficiency cores, which got a boost, I think, last time, didn't get one this time.
00:13:48 ◼ ► So the idea there is that, you know, Apple was like, hey, everybody, we built a neural processor.
00:14:01 ◼ ► Like, basically, the things that they built somewhere else that focus on CPU or GPU for reasons involving the development.
00:14:11 ◼ ► So in the M4, they added the CPU neural accelerators, which the idea there is for machine learning tasks, they will now be faster on CPUs.
00:14:23 ◼ ► So the idea there is, again, if you've got tasks that run on graphics processors that are machine learning tasks, that was one of those areas where Apple felt that they were, I don't know if the right word is vulnerable, but it was like an area that they had not built specific machine learning stuff into the GPU cores.
00:14:45 ◼ ► And they're like, all right, well, okay, we could do some work to make that better then.
00:14:51 ◼ ► So they kind of, again, you saw that like the M4 came through and then the M5 came through with the other part of it.
00:15:02 ◼ ► So in this case, the memory bandwidth on the base M4 to M5, that upgrade, the memory bandwidth is more on the M5.
00:15:10 ◼ ► So all the lower end chips, the M5 chips compared to the M4 generation have more memory bandwidth, which is also great for performance.
00:15:20 ◼ ► So it's that kind of constant rolling iteration that they do where, you know, you look back to the M1 and you realize, oh, the graphics are twice as fast.
00:15:34 ◼ ► So the kind of the year over year improvements are what you would have expected to see, at least of the CPU.
00:16:37 ◼ ► The difference is that in the M1 generation, they came out with the M1s and there was a low-end MacBook Pro.
00:16:59 ◼ ► If my memory serves me right, at least one of the MacBook Pros, the Pro models came before the standard.
00:17:12 ◼ ► But my point being that in the M4 generation, they seemed to hold the whole MacBook Pro line until they had the M4, M4 Pro, and M4 Max chips.
00:17:25 ◼ ► And the MacBook Pro high-end models are still using M4 generation chips that are faster.
00:18:05 ◼ ► I should probably do that, but it feels like it's, this is a GPU year, is what it feels
00:18:12 ◼ ► And imagine what it's going to be like when, you know, like, the Pro and Max chips are playing
00:18:19 ◼ ► The only thing to watch there is that, you know, sometimes in the Pro and Max chips, they're
00:18:23 ◼ ► doing some different stuff that a lot of the bonus that comes in the base model is that
00:18:30 ◼ ► sometimes they're importing features from the high-end models, like the memory bandwidth.
00:18:34 ◼ ► And I'm pretty sure the memory bandwidth in the M4 Pro and Max is, you know, quite a bit
00:18:42 ◼ ► So the M5 getting better memory bandwidth is good, but that was, I think, a feature that
00:18:48 ◼ ► So some of that is they're just sort of like rolling it down to the lower-end models of chip.
00:19:11 ◼ ► Apple is struggling so much on the AI software side, but Apple is good at creating hardware
00:19:32 ◼ ► And so they want people to do this on device because Apple devices are better for it because
00:19:40 ◼ ► So they really have a kind of a mission reason to do it and also a strategy reason to do it.
00:19:56 ◼ ► What I would say is, yeah, Federico is right, that Apple's like saying, oh, say you're a
00:20:05 ◼ ► college student and you've got all your notes and you're going to use an on-device LLM to
00:20:34 ◼ ► I mean, without getting into, I don't want to get into a lot of details, but like, what's
00:20:40 ◼ ► Like, they're like, you know, what's the scenario where you're on a college campus, you need to
00:20:46 ◼ ► analyze your notes, but your college doesn't have the internet or you're in a wooded grove
00:20:59 ◼ ► That all said, I think what Apple would like, and I do think that this will happen as the
00:21:06 ◼ ► devices become more capable, is that there are apps that have either, either the OS integrates
00:21:13 ◼ ► optional large language models of various kinds and the foundation models get better, right?
00:21:28 ◼ ► If you're on a Mac Studio with enormous GPUs, or if you're on an M5, that's got all these
00:21:33 ◼ ► accelerators, that you're running a more powerful model than is running on an iPhone Air, right?
00:21:45 ◼ ► Like Misty Studio, if you run it, I actually think they did a pretty amazing job of making
00:21:55 ◼ ► It's like me saying, oh, you know, Shortcuts does a pretty good job of being a consumer user
00:22:02 ◼ ► It's like, well, yeah, but also really no, but in the long run, and there are other apps
00:22:09 ◼ ► Now there are, there are lots of packaged apps on the Mac and the iPhone and the iPad where
00:22:15 ◼ ► there's machine learning models running under the surface and you as a user don't really
00:22:22 ◼ ► And if the, if the hardware has the ability to execute those models really well, that's
00:22:29 ◼ ► But the challenge right now is that so much hardware is so bad that, and all the AI companies
00:22:40 ◼ ► So right now the, the core AI world is like more, more GPUs in the cloud and what Apple
00:22:47 ◼ ► would say, and I think some app developers would probably say is, I'd really rather not
00:23:03 ◼ ► I think it would benefit app developers because they would not necessarily have to, you know,
00:23:12 ◼ ► And when you run out of AI credits, you must buy more, even though it's like, but I bought
00:23:22 ◼ ► And if you could run them on device and, and, and just say, oh yeah, this just runs on my
00:23:29 ◼ ► But I would agree with the idea that it's a little premature because, uh, or, or at least
00:23:42 ◼ ► They say the 10 core GPU features a dedicated neural accelerator in each core, delivering
00:23:47 ◼ ► over four times peak GPU compute performance compared to the M4 and over six times peak GPU
00:23:58 ◼ ► So I was talking to him cause he has a review of the iPad pro and he has been, yeah, we're
00:24:16 ◼ ► But Federico has been trying to test some of the stuff based on MLX, which is Apple's like
00:24:52 ◼ ► And that's the key to actually take advantage of the, at least on the iPad pro, it doesn't
00:25:05 ◼ ► And it's like, this is like the perfect encapsulation, I think of Apple and AI right now, which is
00:25:11 ◼ ► like, and it reminds me so much of like the years and years we spent talking about the iPad
00:25:16 ◼ ► pro of like they have incredible hardware that is super capable, but they have none of the
00:25:24 ◼ ► I would say that that, that is true, but also that this is an industry wide phenomenon.
00:25:28 ◼ ► I think that if I'm, if I'm a device maker, if I'm a chip maker, I'm really trying to extol
00:25:36 ◼ ► Because the Sam Altman's of the world want us to build as many data centers as possible and
00:25:46 ◼ ► And if you're Apple, you look at it and say, well, what we would like for privacy reasons
00:25:54 ◼ ► and for strategy reasons, like I said, is that you'd be able to run that stuff on device.
00:26:00 ◼ ► And here's, here's my optimism, which is, I think there are definitely scenarios where the processor
00:26:08 ◼ ► ability to run machine learning models ramps up so quickly that you end up in a, in a case
00:26:27 ◼ ► And if the ambitions, because this is AI we're talking about, if the ambitions, uh, outstrip
00:26:37 ◼ ► And I think this, it fits perfectly with Apple's whole privacy thing, but it's not there now.
00:26:43 ◼ ► And I, and like I said about Misty studio, all things considered, it does a pretty good
00:26:51 ◼ ► But in the end, it's like shortcuts in that it's not really that friendly and what you really
00:26:59 ◼ ► Which is what's Apple's on device kind of like we provide it for you, or there's a plugin architecture
00:27:06 ◼ ► or something strategy for AI, because what they did with Xcode is really interesting with Xcode.
00:27:19 ◼ ► So like you could see a scenario where apps can bring models, or there's a third party installer
00:27:31 ◼ ► So they, they built this nice hardware and, and the other thing we know the travails of
00:27:42 ◼ ► So Apple's chips are designed with the assumption that Apple software will have gotten its act
00:27:49 ◼ ► together and the reason you see that kind of weird disparity between Apple's chip prowess
00:27:58 ◼ ► and their kind of confusion about software is because, you know, they're the, the chip design
00:28:04 ◼ ► thing is just, they're, they're working years ahead and they're flying straight as an arrow
00:28:14 ◼ ► I think you're already seeing Johnny Scroogey and his people adapt to the idea that the
00:28:19 ◼ ► world doesn't just want the neural engine, even though on the PC side, people are talking
00:28:27 ◼ ► They're trying to say, oh yeah, we've got a specialized neural processor, but with these
00:28:31 ◼ ► accelerators, I think they're also adapting to the fact that, you know, a lot of stuff is
00:28:50 ◼ ► This, uh, this MacBook Pro is missing Wi-Fi 7 on Bluetooth 6 and obviously still has no
00:28:56 ◼ ► All of this is so much more painful now that Apple literally make chips to solve all of these
00:29:03 ◼ ► This is the moment where I decided, I was writing my review when I got to this section.
00:29:09 ◼ ► I need to write this now that Apple makes, uh, a chip that's in iPads and iPhones that connects
00:29:37 ◼ ► And I, I understand that this is a, a minor update and there's supposedly a major MacBook
00:29:47 ◼ ► Um, which makes me wonder if that's the case, if we will actually see MacBook Pros in the spring
00:29:59 ◼ ► I think they're holding, they're holding off that like they're, they're, they're holding
00:30:12 ◼ ► Whether they're coming or not, whether there's a, an M5, uh, pro MacBook Pro in the spring
00:30:22 ◼ ► That won't, again, Apple can do whatever it wants, but yeah, this is a case where they didn't
00:30:33 ◼ ► Apple has built a chip that does Bluetooth six and, and wifi seven, and they didn't put it
00:30:41 ◼ ► So your Mac, your MacBook Pro, your professional Macintosh laptop can't connect to wifi as fast as
00:30:50 ◼ ► an iPad or an iPhone and the C one X is here now and that the, the, the iPhone air has it.
00:31:18 ◼ ► I think I tried to, I tried to boil it down as much as possible to say in my review, tethering
00:31:24 ◼ ► to a phone is not a cure-all and Apple's been offering cellular iPads since the very beginning.
00:31:37 ◼ ► Because also tethering is like, it doesn't, if your answer is tethering, then you're not
00:31:51 ◼ ► I really don't want to get into the tethering argument again, because people are like, again,
00:31:55 ◼ ► it's that same thing, which is like, you don't need tethering because Apple doesn't offer
00:31:58 ◼ ► They decide they need to defend Apple not offering, but it's like, well, if you don't need tethering,
00:32:05 ◼ ► Cellular, like, well, I have cellular, the iPad has cellular because you said tethering.
00:32:23 ◼ ► Like tethering is a great fallback, but like, why has Apple been offering cellular iPads
00:32:39 ◼ ► I pay $20 a month for my iPad cellular plan because I really, really, really am happy when
00:32:47 ◼ ► I'm using my iPad in a place without Wi-Fi out in the woods doing some ML models to have
00:32:54 ◼ ► And that was, I mean, again, if you're using that laptop in Missy Studio out in the woods
00:33:23 ◼ ► Why did they do just, I know we don't know, but like, do you think it makes sense to just,
00:33:47 ◼ ► It may be like how many M4 chips they've got and how many M4 Airs they're building and whatever
00:33:54 ◼ ► Also, if they're doing anything other than just a straight up slap a new chip in it for
00:34:12 ◼ ► They chose to put it, I, you know, part of it is, I think that they, that this, this MacBook
00:34:33 ◼ ► Well, and, and also I could argue that if you're staging a rollout for your next chip and you're
00:34:39 ◼ ► very proud of how great your chips are, being able to show it off on Mac OS, unlike last
00:34:45 ◼ ► time where they didn't talk about Mac performance with the M4 and we had to wait until there was
00:34:58 ◼ ► So we can talk about now, ironically, performance is identical across these systems, but at least
00:35:15 ◼ ► Like after a period of time with the touch bar, it seemed like they, and you were touching
00:35:20 ◼ ► Like it seemed like they kind of wanted to get rid of it, but couldn't because of commercial
00:35:31 ◼ ► For a long time, it didn't make sense of why you'd even call it a MacBook Pro because it
00:35:37 ◼ ► The MacBook Pros were the higher end models and they're like, we also have this MacBook Pro
00:35:43 ◼ ► And it was, yeah, and, and we, we speculated that one of the reasons they kept it around
00:35:51 ◼ ► They would have, they wanted to buy a MacBook Pro because the MacBook Pro is a professional
00:36:12 ◼ ► that's a lot lower than $2,000 because that's where those higher end models were starting.
00:36:22 ◼ ► However, I do take some umbrage at the idea that this is still that because with the M3
00:36:34 ◼ ► And with the M4 generation, the MacBook Pro was parallel to the MacBook Pro higher models in
00:36:57 ◼ ► And the more powerful these base model chips get, the more I actually have to ask the question,
00:37:04 ◼ ► And there are going to be people up there at the high end who really, really have needs.
00:37:08 ◼ ► But like the more capable you make the base model chip, if you're Apple, the less necessary
00:37:16 ◼ ► Not that they aren't necessary for certain tasks, but I do think that the base models are
00:37:25 ◼ ► But now I think we're asking them for the Mac too, which is like, I'm not sure how many people
00:37:39 ◼ ► And it's got the display, you know, and maybe the answer is that with the M6 generation,
00:37:43 ◼ ► this thing's going to stick around like this and the M6 generation, which is going to be
00:37:48 ◼ ► way more expensive to build and it's going to have OLED and it's going to have a touch screen.
00:37:52 ◼ ► Like maybe what's happening here is that we've been in this product cycle long enough that
00:37:56 ◼ ► the low end product has finally joined its high end buddies because the margins are okay.
00:38:02 ◼ ► And then we're about to enter a new cycle where it loses the high end buddies again and they
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00:40:43 ◼ ► It is, like, theoretically with iPadOS 26, having more memory bandwidth, and I think even for
00:41:07 ◼ ► The M5 power is only relevant in the sense that if you're coming from an old iPad, it will
00:41:42 ◼ ► Although I used the M1 a little bit and, you know, it's chunky and it's a little bit slow
00:41:58 ◼ ► It's about that when it comes time for you to buy a new iPad Pro, if you choose that, if
00:42:17 ◼ ► This is, this is something that it means the next time you look, it'll be better than the
00:42:51 ◼ ► Like, if you're upgrading to anything other than an M4, which is, like, probably most iPad
00:43:02 ◼ ► Coming from the M1, looking at that M1 that I have in my house and then comparing it to
00:43:19 ◼ ► Like, I, the big things are actually not the M5 because, again, it is incrementally better.
00:43:44 ◼ ► I have a Wi-Fi 7 router that I bought specifically when Apple started adding a Wi-Fi 7 to their products
00:44:13 ◼ ► I tested on one carrier, which was AT&T, and I tested in one location, which was the harsh
00:44:26 ◼ ► I am in a dead zone for T-Mobile and Verizon here, but we do have a couple of bars of AT&T.
00:44:31 ◼ ► Um, and it was really interesting because on AT&T in my backyard, all the caveats necessary,
00:44:40 ◼ ► what I found was that the download speeds on average on the M5, on the C1X, were a little
00:45:07 ◼ ► I added AT&T onto it, onto my account, paid that extra money for you, the listener and the
00:45:45 ◼ ► Uh, it was, it's an enough effort to review all these products without spending a day driving
00:46:16 ◼ ► And I tested them all identically at the same time in the same location, the whole thing
00:46:22 ◼ ► And it was consistently, I mean, again, the individual tests using UCLA speed test were
00:46:34 ◼ ► So, uh, it felt a little slower to download things, not a lot, just a tiny bit and way faster
00:46:49 ◼ ► So, um, and I've heard positive things from people with the iPhone air as well, which uses
00:46:58 ◼ ► I think that that's one of the things I haven't had a chance to really test the battery life.
00:47:10 ◼ ► That's my report on fast charging as I plugged it in and I, I came, it was, it was perilously
00:47:38 ◼ ► So when Apple releases a new MacBook Pro and an iPad Pro on the same day, it has always
00:47:43 ◼ ► and continues to ask the inevitable questions of how these two devices compare to each other.
00:47:53 ◼ ► There was a time when it seemed like Apple viewed the iPad as the future of the computer
00:48:00 ◼ ► It's ironic that today at a moment when the Mac seems to have come back to the center of
00:48:05 ◼ ► Apple's computing universe, the iPad feels the closest it's ever been to fulfilling that
00:48:11 ◼ ► It's better this way because the iPad can be as much of the Mac as it needs to be to fulfill
00:48:45 ◼ ► And so now there just isn't so much of an argument that the iPad just doesn't have the software
00:48:56 ◼ ► And you're able to take advantage of the software that's already been there in a way that just
00:49:14 ◼ ► And it's, it's especially good at a time when they are essentially sharing so many of their
00:49:27 ◼ ► I think that's the conundrum here, the weird ironic twist that I tried to get across in
00:49:33 ◼ ► that section of the review is the iPad finally feels like it is fulfilling what we've been
00:49:55 ◼ ► The new multitasking, the background processing, all of these nice features that they've added.
00:50:00 ◼ ► And they've added a bunch over the last few years, but 26 really knocked it out of the park.
00:50:04 ◼ ► And yet there was a time when we all looked at the iPad Pro and thought Apple thinks this
00:50:19 ◼ ► Apple does not think that the iPad has to carry the burden of being the replacement for the Mac.
00:50:53 ◼ ► It's not a Mac menu bar, but it is a menu bar that does some things the Mac menu bar does that are nice.
00:51:16 ◼ ► and apply it in an iPad context that makes sense without the burden of having to fulfill the needs
00:51:29 ◼ ► And I think that frees the iPad to be itself, but also weirdly frees it to pick and choose what it takes from the Mac conceptually
00:51:40 ◼ ► without this overhead of like, we must rethink the Mac for the future because this is the future of the Mac.
00:51:50 ◼ ► And the fact that I could write a review of an iPad now without having the obligatory paragraph of disappointment,
00:52:16 ◼ ► oh, but Apple is making pro hardware, but they let themselves down because the software can't match it.
00:52:24 ◼ ► And it doesn't do this basic video export and it doesn't do like, and it's not completely gone.
00:52:47 ◼ ► This is the first time that I can look at an iPad Pro and reasonably not say, but what about?
00:52:56 ◼ ► And this is also great at a time when we may be getting touchscreens on the Mac, right?
00:53:03 ◼ ► Like to say that these devices are separate, they're on their own pathways, they're similar, they share from each other.
00:53:09 ◼ ► It's important at a time when we then just want to go, well, why don't you just put iPadOS in this thing?
00:53:14 ◼ ► And yeah, so the answer is going to be, I can almost predict when they do those touchscreen Macs in a year,
00:53:19 ◼ ► they're going to say exactly a version of what I just said about the iPad, which is the Mac's its own thing.
00:53:24 ◼ ► The Mac can learn things from the iPad, but what the Mac is not trying to be is an iPad.
00:53:28 ◼ ► It's trying to learn from the iPad lessons we've learned over 10 years or over 15 years on the iPad
00:53:39 ◼ ► Because I think that's where we are, is that the iPad and the Mac are kind of facets of each other,
00:53:57 ◼ ► The only thing I'll say remaining is what I said earlier about how Apple's chips make the,
00:55:22 ◼ ► but especially in the iPad line where the Mac, first off, the iPad Pro is so expensive.
00:56:06 ◼ ► The reason you get an iPad Pro is because it's the best, because it's nice, because it's thin,
00:56:21 ◼ ► So, you pay the money because it's really nice, but I would argue you don't pay because
00:56:33 ◼ ► And this is an interesting little thing, where the iPad Air is basically the iPad Pro experience
00:56:47 ◼ ► So, that's an interesting feature as well, where Apple has decided, we're going to just
00:57:00 ◼ ► It's got the best screen and the best processor, and it is in the most dynamic case, super thin.
00:57:35 ◼ ► I don't think there's any, okay, somebody will come at me with an edge case, but I would
00:57:45 ◼ ► Air is the iPad that people who really love the iPad and want to use it should use, unless
00:57:51 ◼ ► you look at the price of the iPad Pro and you're like, yeah, I can pay that for something that's
00:57:57 ◼ ► I think that the world is full of products where if you pay more, you can get the nicer
00:58:01 ◼ ► Um, I just don't think that the iPad Pro any longer has this sort of like, I need to pay
00:58:21 ◼ ► I think I will buy an iPad Pro because I love the iPad Pro and I love the iPad enough that
00:58:25 ◼ ► paying more for niceness makes sense for me because I use it so much and I want it to be
00:58:33 ◼ ► But just to put it in context, as a practical person who gives buying advice from time to
00:58:50 ◼ ► It's Magic Keyboard isn't quite as nice as the one on the Pro, but it's perfectly nice.
00:58:55 ◼ ► So that's the other thing I would say is that like, this is a product that the Pro is out
00:59:26 ◼ ► Because when they changed the size in the M4, they came out with this new one that's got
00:59:43 ◼ ► But just to be clear in terms of pure functionality, if you're trying to save some money, the iPad
01:00:09 ◼ ► Whether you're live streaming, recording a podcast or producing training videos, Ecamm gives you
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01:03:31 ◼ ► So, this is coming from the M2 Vision Pro, which if I remember rightly was released kind
01:03:42 ◼ ► I want to read the ways that Apple are talking about what the M5 does for the Vision Pro,
01:04:11 ◼ ► Apple, this reveals that there are places where Apple was reducing the capability of the Vision
01:04:18 ◼ ► Vision Pro to below what some of the hardware was capable of because the processor couldn't
01:04:27 ◼ ► And they wouldn't have ever said it at the time, but now that there's a faster one, now
01:04:32 ◼ ► So, they say that the pass-through is more responsive and that they can also increase the frame rate
01:04:51 ◼ ► If you would have told me or asked me what is the refresh rate on the Vision Pro, I would
01:05:11 ◼ ► I don't think what we can say is, oh, well, get ready for the 120 hertz or frames per second
01:05:22 ◼ ► I think this is that in certain areas where they felt they had the power to go up more in
01:05:29 ◼ ► But it's hard for me to tell just wandering around my house with the Vision Pro in my head
01:05:39 ◼ ► But they say that it's better, and I think I probably believe them because it was good,
01:05:48 ◼ ► And then the other thing that's really interesting is the resolution, which is the other thing
01:05:54 ◼ ► is that they weren't rendering at the full capability resolution of those displays, which if you
01:05:59 ◼ ► think about it, we already knew because foveated rendering, which is what's happening in the
01:06:02 ◼ ► The whole idea there is those Sony screens are capable of rendering or, you know, at full
01:06:24 ◼ ► But what seems to have happened is that with the M5, all of that foveated rendering in the
01:06:32 ◼ ► area where you're looking, foveated rendering, the idea there is basically like your brain
01:06:36 ◼ ► and your eyes don't register your peripheral vision with a level of clarity as where you're
01:06:57 ◼ ► And the rest of it is rendered at lower quality, which if you've ever taken a screenshot in
01:07:01 ◼ ► a vision pro, you'll see, you can see where you were looking because that part is clear
01:07:08 ◼ ► And, and it's a frustration if you're taking screenshots, because you have to go into developer
01:07:14 ◼ ► When you go into developer mode and it stops foveated rendering, everything gets choppy
01:07:20 ◼ ► So anyway, the M5 apparently renders the higher resolution foveated rendering portion higher
01:07:38 ◼ ► But what you're saying is it's actually the part that you're looking at is now rendered
01:07:45 ◼ ► Is the way that Apple says 10% more pixels on the custom micro OLED displays, whatever.
01:08:04 ◼ ► I think part of it is probably that it's a higher resolution or that they've expanded the
01:08:11 ◼ ► So it's further out so that more of your peripheral vision right around that, that area of attention.
01:08:25 ◼ ► I think they are fully rendering or as much as possible, fully rendering the Mac virtual display.
01:08:38 ◼ ► I think what they found is that the way people use the virtual display, they notice the foveated
01:08:44 ◼ ► They notice unlike on my Mac where, you know, I'm looking right at the center of my, my studio
01:08:50 ◼ ► display, but I know that the thing off to the side is perfectly crystal clear, even if my
01:08:56 ◼ ► I think they found that with the Mac virtual display, it felt a little fuzzy and that some
01:09:19 ◼ ► If you have the power to max them out, they don't have the power on these chips to max them
01:09:46 ◼ ► You know, a lot of the complaints about the virtual display are it's fine, but it's not
01:09:57 ◼ ► My guess is the virtual display is clearer in where you're looking and it's probably clearer
01:10:11 ◼ ► So it's not like, it's just, it's fascinating cause it's, it's about a chip limitation, not
01:10:18 ◼ ► about a display limitation, which is actually answers one of the questions about why put
01:10:40 ◼ ► They talk about that, that the M5 is so much more energy efficient that the battery life
01:10:48 ◼ ► Now, Mike, I know the question everybody's asking is, should I upgrade from my M2 Vision
01:11:09 ◼ ► And so there was a fairly easy slip stream to just put this in here, but it does have benefits.
01:11:14 ◼ ► And I have seen some of them, but, you know, reviewing three products over a weekend, it
01:11:31 ◼ ► We, should we talk about, you want to talk about the new headband, which is available to
01:11:39 ◼ ► So this is essentially what looks like two of the solo knit band, which is the iconic band
01:12:01 ◼ ► I have used, I look, I used the 3D printed thing with another knit band on top of my head.
01:12:18 ◼ ► One of the reasons it's better than either of those is because it's a single piece, not
01:12:26 ◼ ► You adjust it, the tightness on the back of your head, and then you pop it out a little
01:12:41 ◼ ► They kept the 3D knitted material, which I thought would be the first thing that they'd
01:13:11 ◼ ► The idea is it's making you feel tired primarily because it's so heavy on the front of your head
01:13:22 ◼ ► And so what they've done is they put weights on the back to counterbalance it so that it's
01:13:27 ◼ ► pulling down on your body a little bit more, but it's not pulling forward where your body
01:13:34 ◼ ► I'd say I have not spent enough dedicated time with it to say, how does it feel after five
01:13:40 ◼ ► Uh, I'd like to do that at some point, but I could say it feels really good and the weight
01:13:57 ◼ ► So it's a little more balanced because this has been like the, the controversy over the
01:14:06 ◼ ► Cause like the technical specs just show that the weight is increased, but like they did give
01:14:15 ◼ ► Flexible fabric ribs embedded with tungsten inserts that provide a counterweight for additional
01:14:38 ◼ ► In the, in the ribbing so that everything is a little more balanced, which is actually a
01:14:56 ◼ ► Cause like, I like the Belkin one a lot too, but the adjustment experience is, it's a little
01:15:03 ◼ ► Like if you want to do it often, but it's the best, it's absolutely the best strap that
01:15:16 ◼ ► And having the single control to tighten the two different dimensions of it, you can, you
01:15:24 ◼ ► And the elasticity of it is really nice because part of the challenge with a vision pro, if
01:15:28 ◼ ► you have a non, a not really very elastic band is when it goes on, um, you then have to adjust
01:15:41 ◼ ► And there's less I'm finding so far, I don't have to do as much adjustment when I put it on
01:15:47 ◼ ► as I used to, because it's just kind of like elastic enough to let me slide it over my head.
01:16:07 ◼ ► So you could just buy a PSVR two if you wanted, uh, especially if you have a PS five, I mean,
01:16:33 ◼ ► So wait, is the current shipping version, does it support, at least your one does the M five
01:16:54 ◼ ► And if you have a PS five, I would recommend considering whether you want to just buy a PS
01:16:58 ◼ ► VR two, because if you have a PlayStation five, this is the upgrade official, uh, uh, recommendation.
01:17:03 ◼ ► If you have a PlayStation five, you should buy the PS VR two because $250 for these two
01:17:20 ◼ ► Also, if you're a, uh, if you're a PC gamer, the PS VR two works as a VR headset for PC
01:17:46 ◼ ► Like if you, if you do eye tracking with the vision pro and then you're looking at something
01:18:01 ◼ ► I think the pickleball game is actually still in test flight, but it's going to come out.
01:18:21 ◼ ► It's like the life of a vision pro owner, especially if you're a vision pro owner who covers this
01:18:34 ◼ ► So, so, but that said, once you get it all set up, like it is a very familiar experience to me
01:18:42 ◼ ► as someone who has a quest three and I had a quest two, um, of course the, the quest two and three experiences is just like $500 or whatever.
01:19:14 ◼ ► Um, but, uh, when it was all working, the idea that I'm swinging a hand controller around in actual space, it was able to be much more precise than if I'm just hanging around with my hand.
01:19:25 ◼ ► Cause I, there's a ping pong game, table tennis game for the vision pro, and you got to use your hand and it's got hand tracking.
01:19:32 ◼ ► Uh, and I, I try, I've tried and tried to play it and you can precisely position sort of like where you want the paddle.
01:19:38 ◼ ► Um, but then like I did, that's for the forehand and then I do the backhand and the paddle's not in the right place anymore.
01:19:47 ◼ ► And I would start to hold my hand out because I think that sometimes I would swing my hand back and the cameras would lose track of where it was.
01:19:55 ◼ ► Um, so I'm kind of in unnatural positions and by the way, uh, 11 table tennis for the quest is so great.
01:20:13 ◼ ► So I get these controllers and I started using the table tennis app on the, um, on the vision pro.
01:20:18 ◼ ► And I think, oh no, it turns out, turns out Mike, it's not that the hand tracking was making that app bad.
01:20:31 ◼ ► Cause even with that, even with these, it was not close to being the quality of the game on the quest three.
01:20:38 ◼ ► So it leads me to believe that maybe that app is just not very good at, at, at tracking.
01:20:44 ◼ ► Maybe I'm sorry to that app, but like even with a hand controller, the quests one is better.
01:20:56 ◼ ► And then I tried the beta of the pickleball app and I will tell you when it was working and there were a couple of quirks when it was working, nailed it.
01:21:08 ◼ ► It was just as delightful as any of those quest ones with the graphics you would expect from the vision pro.
01:21:27 ◼ ► So I think there's some potential here again, no one who wants hand controllers and games should buy a vision pro.
01:21:34 ◼ ► You should buy a quest, but if you have a vision pro maybe, and in the long run, if Apple thinks that this is a direction they might want to go, this is a good test case.
01:21:50 ◼ ► And if you want to play table tennis on, uh, against in a virtual world, you should get a quest three.
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01:24:19 ◼ ► Like how were they going to handle being the not only the broadcast partner essentially but also the streaming partner of F1?
01:24:29 ◼ ► Like how would that work and you know because F1 has its own streaming service and it has works with ESPN.
01:24:39 ◼ ► Those are the things we were talking about and not only will they have available on Apple TV the races and the whole the whole practice and everything the whole kind of content of the racing weekends.
01:24:51 ◼ ► They're also going to continue to offer with Formula One F1 TV premium which is all of this but also a ton of technical stuff which we can get into.
01:25:06 ◼ ► But the way it's going to work is you can only now subscribe to F1 TV premium by having an Apple TV subscription.
01:25:19 ◼ ► You are just a standard Apple TV subscriber and then you also if you're in the this is all in the US get access to F1 TV premium as well.
01:25:35 ◼ ► And in fact people who are subscribers to F1 TV in the US received an email saying here's what's happening.
01:25:41 ◼ ► Your subscription will continue until it renews after this time which is whatever March or something of next year at which point your your subscription will no longer renew and you will need to sign up for Apple TV to watch.
01:25:55 ◼ ► So if you've got another year on your subscription you'll have it for the year you'll have F1 TV premium for the year.
01:26:00 ◼ ► But whenever it lapses it won't auto renew and instead you will be directed to go to Apple and subscribe to Apple TV.
01:26:10 ◼ ► And so yeah this is a premium streaming product that is being rolled in to what Apple is doing.
01:26:22 ◼ ► And they are providing the access to F1 TV premium for everybody in the United States who's a TV subscriber.
01:26:31 ◼ ► And what this does by continuing to allow and kind of encourage F1 TV premium it solves a lot of the hang-ups that I've had about how Apple are going to make this work.
01:26:42 ◼ ► Like for example on F1 TV premium you can choose from any of the 22 onboard driver cameras and watch them in like quad boxes and all this kind of stuff.
01:26:54 ◼ ► Like it just felt like a lot more technical lift than maybe Apple would want to do and that they may just on Apple TV just want to show what ESPN would have shown.
01:27:11 ◼ ► What I would say is why would Apple duplicate what the event the partner Formula One has built?
01:27:25 ◼ ► Why would you say well we're going to rebuild that all in a different app and we're going to like why when you're when they're your partner just like MLS is Apple's partner.
01:27:37 ◼ ► So why rebuild that thing when the vent you know the vendor the partner already has it they built it.
01:27:42 ◼ ► So they basically said yep we're going to hand that to you as part of this deal and that's why and you're like well therefore they're foregoing revenue and they are foregoing revenue.
01:28:08 ◼ ► MLS you have to if you want to see all the MLS games you have to buy the MLS season pass.
01:28:14 ◼ ► In this case you just get it if you're an Apple TV subscriber you just get F1 and you get F1 premium you get it all so you can just watch the race or you can dive into the app and and do the super fan stuff with all the data and it's just all covered if you're an Apple TV subscriber.
01:28:30 ◼ ► And I want to just you know because in case people don't know there are a bunch of different plans for F1 TV right.
01:28:37 ◼ ► The only one that gives you races now is F1 TV premium there was something called F1 TV Pro actually no sorry F1 TV Pro and premium both exist.
01:28:47 ◼ ► They are the only ways to get races F1 TV Pro is going to go away because it was just HD it wasn't 4K.
01:29:02 ◼ ► So if you were just signed up for this you're doing great because you could just get Apple TV now which I think would be cheaper for you over a year.
01:29:11 ◼ ► Now if you were watching on ESPN and you're you know you because you were signed up to ESPN anyway and you didn't have Apple TV well now you have an additional cost right you're going to have to sign up for Apple TV.
01:29:24 ◼ ► But like there is also another tier which I've seen a lot of people talk about which is F1 TV which is like $30 a year but that is just data like you don't get any feeds that I can sign up for F1 TV even though we have Sky and all I get is you get like live telemetry data and some like original documentaries and stuff but that there's no races in that.
01:29:51 ◼ ► Yeah you can it's like the digital add-on of bonus content it's not the live stuff so so yeah this is it's really interesting there are lots of questions out there.
01:30:03 ◼ ► Will Carroll on downstream last week said that he had heard now he said he didn't think the announcement would come Friday and then it did you know emailed me and he was like well got that wrong but he also had heard that they were already moving ahead and hiring people to like announcers.
01:30:19 ◼ ► So we we will see my guess is I feel strongly about this and we'll talk about why in a second when we talk about ADQ that what Apple will not do is what ESPN did which is just take the Sky feed and run it.
01:30:35 ◼ ► Yeah and that's because not to be mean but this matters to Apple and I don't think it mattered to ESPN ESPN cared so that's why they let it go content that they took somebody else's well and when it was on they they they did bid for it but a fraction of what Apple bid for it and like they cared so little about the content that they just took the Sky feed even though the Sky feed has all sorts of details about watch this on Sky and press the red button.
01:31:02 ◼ ► yeah like the Sky broadcasting team is great but the there was too much junk in the ESPN broadcast made for Sky yeah and it's irrelevant to ESPN so Apple's not going to do that Apple is going to make a broadcast that is for Apple you know and and and I would say also something we talked about last time that I want to I want to mention again here this is a test of Apple's relationship with F1.
01:31:32 ◼ ► because Apple has broad ambitions and the beauty of this is Apple on its own home territory of the United States is all in with Formula One the whole product is an Apple product they are the partners Apple and Formula One if it goes well if they experiment and try stuff if they if they like it as other international territories come available for rights.
01:32:00 ◼ ► this is one way for Apple to add territories over time if they want to and if F1 wants to and they want to pay the money to expand this because this is US only but like who's to say that the rights in Mexico or in Australia or something come up and Apple's like we'll bid for that because they will have at that point they will have built the infrastructure and the relationship and then they're just expanding to new territories.
01:32:28 ◼ ► you know if they go to Mexico they have to add a Spanish language fee but it's like they can do that they can hire they do that for most of MLS actually.
01:32:34 ◼ ► So I think it's really interesting because it's a five-year deal it's an experiment but it's also the flowering of the relationship that began with that movie and like we'll see where it takes them because you know maybe they won't expand the relationship or maybe this is the start of something bigger.
01:32:54 ◼ ► We'll just have to see but I think that that I think Apple's got that in the back of its mind is if this goes well why will we not just keep picking up territories and and expanding that we're the global you know maybe not everywhere.
01:33:09 ◼ ► I looked it up I think I think they reported about 1.3 billion dollars in media revenue last year Formula One did so like could Apple pay 1.5 billion dollars for all rights all over the world.
01:33:22 ◼ ► yeah but they they're right now those rights are all coming up one by one and they have to outbid local broadcasters and that may not happen and they may not have any desire to do that but it wouldn't surprise me if they do that going forward if this works out for them.
01:33:36 ◼ ► honestly I'll be flabbergasted if they don't take the UK rights like the works from sky like it would be very odd to me and they come up in 29 so it's you know it's kind of like halfway through their agreement or whatever.
01:33:48 ◼ ► I'll give you a couple of like pieces of information that I think you're interested in which are like going on to the stuff I was saying in past episodes.
01:33:55 ◼ ► So by keeping F1 TV around Apple can have their own commentary team and those commentary team can be seen good bad or whatever it doesn't matter because in F1 TV you can get F1 TV's commentary team.
01:34:09 ◼ ► exactly like but also in F1 TV you can choose the sky feed so if you love if you watch on ESPN and love Martin Brando and David Crofty like I do you can just go to F1 TV and switch to their audio so you can listen to them.
01:34:26 ◼ ► It's been interesting like on threads like the F1 TV commentary team are like we're not going anywhere like the people keep because like it seemed you know I guess for now I want to make a prediction.
01:34:39 ◼ ► to just put it on record here I think Apple will hire Will Buxton to do part of their commentary so if you have ever watched Drive to Survive Will Buxton is essentially the narrator he used to work at F1 TV he clearly wanted to be in commentary but F1 and F1 TV didn't put him on commentary permanently they have a different team.
01:35:02 ◼ ► Buxton left F1 and went to IndyCar and he is one of the commentary people for IndyCar and he obviously has always wanted to do F1 I reckon Apple are going to bring him in and he will be part of their broadcast team because he is known by the American audience now in sports racing and worldwide because of Drive to Survive.
01:35:22 ◼ ► I think he would be a very good person because if you've seen Drive to Survive which is most F1 fans you are familiar with Will Buxton you know him like even though he is in IndyCar now he's still in Drive to Survive as kind of like the the the face of the show like from a narrator from a narrator like he kind of like draws the lines between the stories during the documentary so he would be my bet as someone that they're gonna they're gonna bring him for the team.
01:35:51 ◼ ► I'm fascinated to see what that broadcasting looks like and just in general like Apple has said like production information is coming later.
01:36:00 ◼ ► If you look at what Apple did with Major League Baseball what they did is they took an off the shelf this is why EDQ called and we'll talk about this podcast in a minute but he called it an experiment with Major League Baseball what they did is they took an off the rack baseball broadcast they literally took MLB network broadcast.
01:36:20 ◼ ► They so their partner their league partner handled the production and then what they did is they tweaked it because they wanted to experiment.
01:36:27 ◼ ► I think this might be a an interesting model for F1 as well which is like we've got we're partners you've got a turnkey thing that you do for races you've got your international feed you've got your cameras the way this works is it's not like every every broadcaster has its own cameras right.
01:36:46 ◼ ► There are the camp it's like the Olympics there are the cameras at the track and then you may have some specific cameras if you think about whatever your country's Olympic coverage is you know how like there's the coverage of the sport and then there's like the shot of the announcers and there's the shot of the person down at the pool interviewing the swimmers.
01:37:02 ◼ ► There's like in America NBC's got the shot of the people down at the pool but like the swimming cameras are not NBC's cameras those are the Olympics pool cameras.
01:37:24 ◼ ► You don't you don't have 20 different sets of cameras you have one set of cameras and then you can have your extras.
01:37:30 ◼ ► So the question for me is going to be what does Apple push on because with Major League Baseball they changed the they reduced the compression of the video.
01:37:38 ◼ ► They were they were worried about you know they set their own you know they wanted the good color and they wanted it to it to look really nice and they did their graphics.
01:37:48 ◼ ► They had them in Apple style and they added stats that like Apple felt like were good for its audience to have this extra sort of dynamic stats package that they did and they pushed in some production areas.
01:37:59 ◼ ► Not only did they do the thing where they added iPhones to the broadcast the last couple weeks of the year but they added a more they were more aggressive with drone footage on Friday nights and they claim you know they were the first one to get the okay from MLB from their partner that they could take their drone onto the field not during play but like at the end of an inning the their drone could go over the stadium and show it from above and then leave.
01:38:28 ◼ ► And like that needed to be worked out with their partner but those were all ways where they were trying to experiment with enhancing so Friday Night Baseball felt a little bit different and a little bit better.
01:38:38 ◼ ► I think and I think they've been trying to do some of that in MLS it's harder because MLS is so many games at once Formula One is not so many games at once it's these events I so I would imagine they will be and are already talking to Formula One about how do we make the Apple broadcast of this.
01:38:56 ◼ ► Which includes Apple's own announcers and possibly some even interactive elements because they too can let you press the red you know press the button.
01:39:06 ◼ ► Like they how will they push that part forward not F1 TV they don't have to touch F1 TV it is what it is but they can take their their kind of mainstream broadcast and make it their own in a way that ESPN you know didn't bother with it wasn't worth it to them to just not take Sky.
01:39:24 ◼ ► Yeah so it will be interesting because some of this stuff as I said before like if they may if they are if they have F1 make some changes everybody will benefit from them even if it's not on Apple right.
01:39:35 ◼ ► I think that's also probably the case right if they're truly partners Apple may push F1 on some things that then everybody benefits from.
01:39:42 ◼ ► So like if they do like lower compression because I have like ultra HD I pay for but like the cameras on the track side they're not that high quality like when they go to like the pre and post race interviews and stuff like that with the Sky team.
01:39:58 ◼ ► It's way higher quality imagery so maybe they push them on that you know you're saying like F1 is very forward focused they we already have drones that follow the cars around.
01:40:10 ◼ ► And maybe they do push them on the graphics because I mentioned before the graphics like baked into the feed but maybe everybody just gets the because F1 just make the graphics.
01:40:18 ◼ ► But if Apple's like hey what if they look like this and look like this then everyone will get that right.
01:40:26 ◼ ► Maybe or there'll be a good partner and they'll provide Apple with a graphics light version of the feed that Apple puts its own graphics on and then that's the place where Apple can experiment with graphics.
01:40:39 ◼ ► So the question is like what's the push and pull of that because I would imagine this may not stay the case for five years.
01:40:46 ◼ ► But right now I would imagine this is how do we make this the best partnership everywhere everywhere.
01:40:50 ◼ ► And if you talk I know we this is an Apple focused podcast but like if you talk to people in the sports world about partnering with Apple they're like whoa it's Apple they make the iPhone they're one of the biggest companies in the world.
01:41:00 ◼ ► They're our partner now Apple brings a kind of a cache and and and they also have a global reach and lots of money.
01:41:06 ◼ ► So if you're Formula One you're like this is interesting like let's see where this partnership takes us which probably takes us to Eddie Q on the town.
01:41:16 ◼ ► And his money quote which is we'd like to own a sport end to end he talks about baseball was an experiment MLS is much closer.
01:41:25 ◼ ► This was before the F1 partnership was revealed MLS is everywhere end to end right it's globally F1 is US but it is end to end they own it.
01:41:35 ◼ ► If you want access to that starting next year you will need to be an Apple subscriber and we've been talking about this for years.
01:41:43 ◼ ► This is so clearly their strategy is they don't want pieces Matt Bellany asked them about asked him about do you want part of the NFL you're part of the NBA.
01:41:54 ◼ ► And he's like no I don't I want it all even when they were bidding for college rights because they bid for the Pac-12 football they wanted the whole conference right like they wanted it all of that little subset they wanted it all.
01:42:14 ◼ ► I think they I think I think I think Apple ideally if everything goes well thinks that eventually they will buy all the global F1 media rights.
01:42:25 ◼ ► Yeah I think that that should be like I expect that that is what they're looking for but it's like well we can't right now so why don't we just start with the territory that matters most to us and see how it goes.
01:42:38 ◼ ► That's the thing is if they say starting in 2027 Australia and New Zealand will be Apple and you know and you know pick and Japan.
01:42:47 ◼ ► Okay like that that may happen it may not be everywhere because everybody's rights are timing out at different times to this is not the case in some sports.
01:42:58 ◼ ► They've tried to time the right so that they all go at once but this is a legacy of kind of international media rights all the I believe all the F1 deals sort of like are all over the place.
01:43:07 ◼ ► It's also like based on the fact of like the interest in F1 has changed over time so like ESG never had a long window because it just wasn't of important to them.
01:43:16 ◼ ► But Sky have wanted to like take it a huge chunks at a time because it is important to them.
01:43:23 ◼ ► So we'll see but it is the beginning I mean unless you say F1 the movie was the beginning but now that with the sports rights is the beginning of a very interesting relationship that could potentially have global ambitions.
01:43:34 ◼ ► Because of the movie like they built a relationship I actually saw a quote I don't know if you spoke about it on this show or not.
01:43:44 ◼ ► Eddie was at a motorsport conference and he referenced that the CEO of F1 Stefano Dominicali him and Eddie Q are close personal friends which is hilarious.
01:44:00 ◼ ► By the way my theory on this like Eddie being on the town and then Eddie going to this motorsport conference they wanted to announce this before now and couldn't.
01:44:09 ◼ ► Like there was like a bunch of things that happened and then this happens like this doesn't make any sense in this order like why you would do this.
01:44:18 ◼ ► My bet like I get what you're saying about like the graphics I really think that Apple will push F1 to improve stuff and then it will kind of work in the reverse to how it's worked with Sky for years.
01:44:29 ◼ ► Where now what Apple wants everyone else gets where it has always been what Sky wanted the rest of the world got because I think F1's preferred partner is going to become Apple and they're just going to make it as simple as they can which is like here are our graphics everybody gets them here's our feed everybody gets it because it's just how the sport works.
01:44:49 ◼ ► It's weird like that also I should say that I mentioned like you buy the rights in Mexico and you add a Spanish feed there are a bunch of broadcasters streaming broadcasters who already do multiple streams like I said MLS offers multiple language streams.
01:45:09 ◼ ► Amazon with Prime Video there's a Spanish stream in addition to an English stream so Apple may push on that too to broaden it out and then yeah if they add Canada rights they will add a French stream the French MLS teams have a French audio as well so I feel like Apple's ambitions are global and maybe or maybe not that may or may not work out here but I think the ambition is global.
01:45:33 ◼ ► I would be shocked if Apple didn't think that this was going to be a start of many countries having F1 rights be in Apple.
01:45:40 ◼ ► Yeah because to me owning a sport end-to-end doesn't mean just one geographical location.
01:45:48 ◼ ► In there like if a network owned all of the NBA in the US they would feel like that was end-to-end but Apple doesn't think that way.
01:46:05 ◼ ► Certainly Apple and Netflix are there are not that many streaming services that are available in almost every region in the world but Apple is and Netflix is.
01:46:28 ◼ ► Well let me tell you go to getupgradeplus.com because I want to talk about the news of video podcasts on Netflix.
01:46:35 ◼ ► So I think if you've enjoyed this conversation of TV and all this kind of stuff you're going to love it.
01:46:43 ◼ ► You can send in questions for next week though by going to upgradefeedback.com sending your follow-up as well.