ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I have to tell you, I'm having a sad.

00:00:01 ◼   ► Oh, what's going on?

00:00:03 ◼   ► First of all, I have a cold, which is why I sound funny, so let me just get that out right

00:00:07 ◼   ► in front of everything.

00:00:07 ◼   ► Me too, sort of.

00:00:09 ◼   ► But it's summer, you're not supposed to have a seat.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Yeah, my daughter came down with something right before she was going to go to school

00:00:13 ◼   ► and she decided to give it to everybody.

00:00:14 ◼   ► So anyway, here we are.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Similarly, my daughter went to school and shared all those germs with all of us, which

00:00:21 ◼   ► is delightful.

00:00:21 ◼   ► School is the source of all germs, especially when young children go to school for the first

00:00:26 ◼   ► time, like preschool or kindergarten, oh, that's where all viruses come from.

00:00:30 ◼   ► But certainly, it doesn't get that much better as they get through the older grades.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it's so true.

00:00:36 ◼   ► So I'm having a sad because I had a really solid plan for a light redesign of call sheet for

00:00:46 ◼   ► iOS 26.

00:00:48 ◼   ► And the gist of it is, is that I was going to move to the system, in SwiftUI, it's not

00:00:58 ◼   ► searchable, but the system search box and search affordances, which I am not using in call sheet

00:01:04 ◼   ► because you couldn't put them at the bottom of the screen until very recently.

00:01:08 ◼   ► And then I forget why I didn't do it after that.

00:01:09 ◼   ► But I think there was very little control over whether or not it was focused for a while.

00:01:13 ◼   ► They've been chipping away at all these problems over the years, but I've been over the last

00:01:19 ◼   ► few days because I've been real late on starting my work on this because of all the things going

00:01:23 ◼   ► on in my life, which everything's fine, but it's been a lot.

00:01:25 ◼   ► And so I'm really dug in the last few days.

00:01:27 ◼   ► I was feeling really good.

00:01:28 ◼   ► Like the direction in my mind, I'm feeling great about.

00:01:32 ◼   ► I really think that this is going to be awesome.

00:01:34 ◼   ► I'm going to use the system search affordance at the bottom of the screen.

00:01:38 ◼   ► And the only problem with that is, as you navigate into subscreens, you got to like kind of quietly

00:01:44 ◼   ► like re-scaffold a new one of those because each individual screen, each individual view

00:01:50 ◼   ► wants to have its own.

00:01:51 ◼   ► You can't, there's no real idea of a universal search box, but I was like, okay, I think I

00:01:56 ◼   ► can get this.

00:01:56 ◼   ► I think I can get this.

00:01:57 ◼   ► And then as I'm like starting to do the thing that no one should ever do is I'm starting

00:02:03 ◼   ► to try to bend SwiftUI and I'm trying and I'm bending it and I'm bending it and I'm bending

00:02:08 ◼   ► it.

00:02:08 ◼   ► And today, it bends about as well as Tim Cook.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:02:11 ◼   ► And so today I'm pretty sure I heard a crack and that was SwiftUI breaking.

00:02:16 ◼   ► And so I'm having a sad because I really think if I, if I could have done this and before

00:02:23 ◼   ► everyone emails like, yes, I could probably do this in UIKit, but I just simply don't have

00:02:27 ◼   ► the interest in it.

00:02:28 ◼   ► And I was, I was at best a proficient UIKit developer, but all of that has atrophied in

00:02:35 ◼   ► the last few years.

00:02:36 ◼   ► And I'm sure I could figure it out if I really dedicated myself to it.

00:02:39 ◼   ► But I think instead what I'm going to do is I'm going to take a stab at doing a tab

00:02:45 ◼   ► bar based version of CallSheet.

00:02:47 ◼   ► So, because that does to my recollection, and I have to look into this again, that does have

00:02:51 ◼   ► somewhat of a concept of a universal search, but I've heard a lot of the discourse, the capital

00:02:57 ◼   ► D discourse that tab bars are a disaster in iOS right now.

00:03:01 ◼   ► So I got to throw some spaghetti against the wall and see what's going on.

00:03:04 ◼   ► But it's frustrating because I really didn't know what I was going to do about iOS 26 and

00:03:11 ◼   ► Liquid Glass.

00:03:11 ◼   ► And then in working with Ben McCarthy a little bit, they had given me some really great tips

00:03:17 ◼   ► and a lot of these ideas, as most good UI ideas for me anyway, came from Ben.

00:03:22 ◼   ► And, and I really thought that this was going to be great.

00:03:25 ◼   ► And what would happen is you, you would have universal search at the bottom of the screen

00:03:28 ◼   ► always, and there was going to be a little button to the right of it that would toggle between

00:03:31 ◼   ► universal search and searching on only that screen because that, that, uh, there is an

00:03:36 ◼   ► affordance for that today in CallSheet, but nobody ever sees it because you got to drag

00:03:40 ◼   ► down a little bit so that the title comes down the screen a little bit.

00:03:43 ◼   ► And then there's like a second search bar at the top of the screen, which is the system

00:03:47 ◼   ► way of doing it, but it's a little clunky and nobody ever knows it.

00:03:50 ◼   ► And so I get feedback email, not irregularly.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Hey, I wish I could search within this one screen.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Well, you can.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Well, how do you do that?

00:03:56 ◼   ► Well, you got to, et cetera, et cetera.

00:03:57 ◼   ► So, um, I was really, really amped and really, really jazzed and I really, really, really

00:04:03 ◼   ► was excited.

00:04:04 ◼   ► And now I'm sad because I don't think I can do it or really, I don't think I can make

00:04:08 ◼   ► Swift UI do it.

00:04:09 ◼   ► And that makes me sad.

00:04:11 ◼   ► But what's your situation?

00:04:12 ◼   ► I am caught up on, under the radar.

00:04:14 ◼   ► You, you, you were in the, you were in the depths as I currently am apparently, and you

00:04:19 ◼   ► decided that you were going to back off a little bit, which is probably where I'm going to

00:04:23 ◼   ► land.

00:04:23 ◼   ► I'm just walking down the path that you have laid for me a little bit slower.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Uh, but where are you today?

00:04:28 ◼   ► Because you were optimistic last time I heard, is this still true?

00:04:31 ◼   ► It has been a ride.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Uh, yes.

00:04:35 ◼   ► So I started out the summer thinking, well, I'm going to really do a very significant redesign

00:04:41 ◼   ► of Overcast, including, I thought, hmm, I should have universal search using this new

00:04:48 ◼   ► universal search system component at the bottom of the screen.

00:04:51 ◼   ► This doesn't sound familiar at all.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:53 ◼   ► Uh, and I thought I should switch to a tab bar structure because that's kind of, you

00:04:58 ◼   ► kind of need one to make that work well.

00:05:01 ◼   ► Um, and I thought, you know, now's the, I even said under the radar, now's the time for

00:05:05 ◼   ► Overcast to become a tab bar app.

00:05:07 ◼   ► That's where I am right now.

00:05:08 ◼   ► I probably won't be in a week, but that's where I am right now.

00:05:11 ◼   ► So that's, that's where it started.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Uh, and then, you know, where's how it started, how it, how it's going joke here.

00:05:16 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:17 ◼   ► Um, so it quickly became apparent to me over the, the early experiments with tab bar stuff

00:05:24 ◼   ► in the summer.

00:05:24 ◼   ► It quickly became apparent like, oh, this isn't really going to work the way that I want it

00:05:29 ◼   ► to.

00:05:29 ◼   ► And it turns out that trying to get Overcast to use the new, uh, you know, the new liquid

00:05:36 ◼   ► glass tab bar design was both not a great fit for Overcast.

00:05:41 ◼   ► And also the new liquid glass tab bar design has been a buggy mess for most of the summer.

00:05:48 ◼   ► So it quickly became apparent like, oh, I, not only does it, is this not a great fit, but

00:05:53 ◼   ► I can't even really build against this reliably.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Um, and then it became, okay, let me, let me kind of try doing my own thing.

00:06:00 ◼   ► And I tried to, and, and everything I was trying the tab bar stuff, I hated it.

00:06:04 ◼   ► I tried doing my own thing that was just navigation bars, but, you know, using, you know, pulling

00:06:09 ◼   ► in some of the corners and making them mini player float.

00:06:12 ◼   ► So it looks kind of like one of those big floating blobs, like, like the music app and podcast

00:06:15 ◼   ► apps have.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Um, but just without the tab bar, which is, that's, that is roughly what I'm going to be

00:06:19 ◼   ► shipping.

00:06:19 ◼   ► Spoiler, you know, stuff like that.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And I'm like, and I tried all, and I, I was just hating the app as I would adopt it to liquid

00:06:26 ◼   ► glass.

00:06:27 ◼   ► And I was, I was in a bad place and that, you know, two under the radars ago was when I was

00:06:32 ◼   ► in the bad place.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Like it was just like, I was hating everything I was doing.

00:06:36 ◼   ► I was, I was questioning, like, should I even adopt liquid glass at all?

00:06:40 ◼   ► Um, but you know, I also then came around to the idea like, well, people who are going

00:06:45 ◼   ► to be mad about it are going to be mad for a little while.

00:06:47 ◼   ► They're probably not going to be the majority of people.

00:06:49 ◼   ► And that, you know, subset of people will only get smaller over time.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Meanwhile, most people will adopt it and they'll think it looks cool.

00:06:57 ◼   ► And, you know, I'll be the, you know, the old man screaming and, you know, get off my lawn.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Um, so it's like, it's not productive for me to say, I'm just not going to do it then.

00:07:06 ◼   ► So I started finally getting to a place where I got here, the things I'm doing now, it's

00:07:10 ◼   ► a smaller, it's not a redesign.

00:07:12 ◼   ► It's more of a visual refresh of certain screens to make them a little bit, you know, more using

00:07:18 ◼   ► of the system components.

00:07:20 ◼   ► So that looks more glassy system toolbars replacing like, you know, some of the big rows of buttons

00:07:25 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:07:26 ◼   ► And that's, that was going fine until two days ago when beta eight dropped.

00:07:33 ◼   ► And this has been a really rough summer in terms of bugs.

00:07:36 ◼   ► And it's, it's hard when you're developing, cause it's like, you know, when, when you're

00:07:40 ◼   ► building against a certain system component or system behavior and it's buggy or it's, it

00:07:46 ◼   ► causes animation bugs or it causes layout bugs, you can, you know, you can file those bugs

00:07:51 ◼   ► and, you know, look at the sky, spin in a circle, whatever you think might get them fixed.

00:07:55 ◼   ► Um, for the most part, Apple is randomly and occasionally fixing bugs and then sometimes

00:08:02 ◼   ► randomly and occasionally unfixing them in subsequent betas.

00:08:05 ◼   ► So beta eight came out a couple of days ago and so many of my behaviors got like a little

00:08:12 ◼   ► bit worse, like little animation bugs, little like state or layout bugs that weren't there

00:08:18 ◼   ► in previous betas.

00:08:20 ◼   ► This is probably, we're probably very close to the GM build.

00:08:25 ◼   ► It's probably, the GM build is probably the next build, or at least we are so close that

00:08:30 ◼   ► it might as well be, which means any bug you see in, in this beta at this point has a pretty

00:08:37 ◼   ► good chance of shipping to customers as 26.0.

00:08:41 ◼   ► Uh, so I'm to the point now where I'm like, I made my app more modern in a lot of ways,

00:08:47 ◼   ► better in some ways.

00:08:48 ◼   ► And that I'm just dreading the user reactions because I think my app looks pretty good as

00:08:56 ◼   ► an iOS 26 app, but again, not everyone's going to like that look.

00:09:00 ◼   ► I've also made the probably decision that when I adopted things to iOS 26, I also have backported

00:09:11 ◼   ► those layout changes to iOS 18.

00:09:13 ◼   ► I don't know if that was the right idea yet.

00:09:18 ◼   ► And I don't, I mean, maybe I won't even ship it.

00:09:20 ◼   ► Maybe I'll just say the new version requires 26 and then 18 people will never even see it.

00:09:24 ◼   ► But that, that would delay my launch then because I can't really launch something requiring 26

00:09:28 ◼   ► on day one, you know, responsibly.

00:09:30 ◼   ► I'm at a point now where like, I have a lot of self-doubt.

00:09:33 ◼   ► I was expecting to get this into test flight, uh, on Monday and then the beta, beta eight

00:09:40 ◼   ► came out and it broke everything.

00:09:41 ◼   ► I'm like, well, now I can't now back, back into the workshop again.

00:09:45 ◼   ► You know, like I can't, can't ship it in beta yet.

00:09:47 ◼   ► And I've been working on those fixes, you know, for the last couple of days and it's still,

00:09:52 ◼   ► there's still so many weird little layout bugs and little animation bugs.

00:09:56 ◼   ► I'm having to rip out components.

00:09:57 ◼   ► I'm having to undo.

00:09:58 ◼   ► I'm having to comment out iOS 26 changes here and there just cause like, it's not, it's not

00:10:03 ◼   ► shippable yet.

00:10:04 ◼   ► And I don't know when it'll be shippable.

00:10:06 ◼   ► You know, the scaled back version, you know, I'll, I'll hit it on day one.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Like I'll, I'll get something out there.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Um, but it's not anywhere near what I wanted to do.

00:10:16 ◼   ► It is, it isn't even near my scaled back, uh, version because I had to, you know, comment

00:10:21 ◼   ► out so much of it because, because of these bugs, maybe the GM will fix them.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Probably not, uh, if I'm guessing, or at least we'll fix all of them.

00:10:28 ◼   ► So it's going to be kind of a rough fall.

00:10:33 ◼   ► And again, terrified of the, the customer reaction because either way I'm screwed.

00:10:40 ◼   ► If I don't adopt liquid glass, I'll get a lot of negative reviews and negative press for

00:10:45 ◼   ► being old, unmaintained, outdated, stale looking, whatever it is.

00:10:49 ◼   ► But if I do adopt liquid glass, then I'm going to get a lot of negative reviews from people

00:10:54 ◼   ► who just don't like it.

00:10:55 ◼   ► So this is, this is a, a rough summer for iOS development.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Uh, it's, it's very discouraging at this point.

00:11:04 ◼   ► The only motivation that keeps me going through all this is at the beginning of the summer,

00:11:10 ◼   ► when I was waiting for the design to firm up, I worked on some feature underpinnings for

00:11:14 ◼   ► some future features that I'm very excited about, but none of those features are shipping

00:11:19 ◼   ► yet because I had to spend the, the, the latter two thirds of the summer fighting liquid glass.

00:11:24 ◼   ► And that's what exactly what I said would happen when we, when the rumors were ever redesigned.

00:11:28 ◼   ► I, I said this spring, I said, most apps will be able to just do the redesign and most feature

00:11:34 ◼   ► work will have to wait for a while because a redesign is a big deal.

00:11:37 ◼   ► It's a ton of work.

00:11:38 ◼   ► That was right.

00:11:39 ◼   ► Like Casey, how many new features have you been able to add to call sheet this summer

00:11:43 ◼   ► that were not design related?

00:11:44 ◼   ► Uh, a couple because I wasn't working on the design and now, and, and it's my own fault

00:11:49 ◼   ► because now I feel like I am on my, on my heels with regard to the design because I let myself

00:11:53 ◼   ► get distracted with a couple of new features, which was probably not very adult or mature

00:11:57 ◼   ► of me, but I needed it to keep my, you know, morale for lack of a better word up.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:02 ◼   ► I did the same thing.

00:12:03 ◼   ► I just didn't ship them yet because they're not, they're not done yet.

00:12:04 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:12:05 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm, I'm with you.

00:12:07 ◼   ► Like everything is fine.

00:12:09 ◼   ► It's just, it's frustrating and it's tough and it feels like everything is out of your,

00:12:13 ◼   ► out of your control.

00:12:14 ◼   ► And I mean, and then the other tough thing is, you know, what can we do about it?

00:12:18 ◼   ► Well, we can talk about it on the show.

00:12:20 ◼   ► We can file radars, but I mean, the, the, the radars that I've filed are right.

00:12:26 ◼   ► The radars that I've filed, the best I've gotten out of the radars that I've filed is,

00:12:30 ◼   ► Oh, we recognize that as our problem.

00:12:32 ◼   ► We will fix it one day, which is better than nothing for sure.

00:12:37 ◼   ► And I'm very lucky to have gotten any response at all.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:40 ◼   ► But a, a user facing bug that I can't reasonably work around and the response is we'll get to

00:12:47 ◼   ► it one day.

00:12:47 ◼   ► Not reassuring.

00:12:48 ◼   ► No, because, because, you know, Apple's on fire too.

00:12:50 ◼   ► Like there were, you know.

00:12:51 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:12:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:52 ◼   ► You know, I can't even imagine what's going on inside of Apple right now trying to get

00:12:55 ◼   ► these releases out the door on time for the iPhone ship date.

00:12:58 ◼   ► It's got to be total mania over there right now.

00:13:01 ◼   ► But, you know, again, this is, I mean, this is a problem they created.

00:13:04 ◼   ► This is a problem that they, that their leaders foisted upon them.

00:13:08 ◼   ► So it's, it's, you know, it's hard to feel a lot of sympathy for the company as a whole.

00:13:12 ◼   ► I do feel sympathy for like the individual teams who had liquid glass shoved into their,

00:13:16 ◼   ► you know, their timelines and they had to just deal with it.

00:13:19 ◼   ► I do feel bad for them, but the leadership, I think they earned this problem with their

00:13:24 ◼   ► poor decision making.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Like liquid glass should not have shipped this year.

00:13:28 ◼   ► It's so rough.

00:13:29 ◼   ► It's so incomplete.

00:13:30 ◼   ► Even, even setting aside like design choices and maybe thinking that the choices should have,

00:13:36 ◼   ► you know, had more iteration, just the technical part of it.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Like it is not in a great state right before it's shipping to customers.

00:13:44 ◼   ► So it's, I, my hope is that I can get my 26, you know, design refresh out there in a couple

00:13:52 ◼   ► of weeks and then, and it's hopefully not too much bug fixing and work on that in the weeks

00:14:00 ◼   ► after that.

00:14:00 ◼   ► So I can then actually get back to working on features that people actually will probably

00:14:04 ◼   ► like, because I'm really excited about doing feature work.

00:14:07 ◼   ► I am not at all excited about dealing with this BS, but this is the nature of development.

00:14:13 ◼   ► Sometimes Apple gives you a whole bunch of work in the summer that you have to kind of

00:14:18 ◼   ► just grind through and, uh, cause if you don't, your customers will be upset.

00:14:22 ◼   ► Uh, but it's not really moving the app forward.

00:14:24 ◼   ► It's just, you know, shuffling deck chairs.

00:14:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:27 ◼   ► I mean, right now I'm, like I said, I'm behind where Marco was, I guess I'm two episodes back

00:14:33 ◼   ► and under the radar, uh, and I, and I'm sad about it, but I'm sure both of us will come

00:14:39 ◼   ► through on the other side and we might have a few bruises, maybe a scar or two, but

00:14:43 ◼   ► we'll, we'll come through it.

00:14:44 ◼   ► But for those of you listening, I beg of you for all of the apps on your phones and your

00:14:49 ◼   ► devices and whatnot, uh, please be gentle, be gentle and be understanding for the love.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Please do what you can to be gentle.

00:14:56 ◼   ► And you know what?

00:14:56 ◼   ► Go out there, leave a nice review for apps that you like.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Cause most people never review what they're using.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Most people it's, they, they, I'm, and I'm the same way.

00:15:05 ◼   ► I hardly ever review anything.

00:15:07 ◼   ► We just kind of use the stuff we use and we, we never even think about leaving a review.

00:15:11 ◼   ► So the only people who leave reviews usually are people who are like really excited and

00:15:17 ◼   ► really mad and nothing, no one else.

00:15:20 ◼   ► So if you're not one of that kind of personality type and you just quietly use stuff like I

00:15:28 ◼   ► do, go out there and just like every day review a new app that like, that you've an app on your

00:15:34 ◼   ► phone that you're like, Hey, you know what?

00:15:35 ◼   ► I do like this app.

00:15:36 ◼   ► This actually, this is a nice app.

00:15:37 ◼   ► I use this regularly, you know, go leave it a review in the app store.

00:15:40 ◼   ► You know, it, like it really, it very much does help.

00:15:43 ◼   ► And it's nice to give developers a bit of a present right now because we're all, I think

00:15:49 ◼   ► we're all running around doing a lot right now and heading into a potentially very bumpy

00:15:55 ◼   ► fall.

00:15:55 ◼   ► On a happier note, mostly, um, it is almost as we record this almost September and we're just

00:16:04 ◼   ► super excited and getting a little bit of head ahead of things.

00:16:06 ◼   ► And we're going to tell you that September is guess what childhood cancer awareness month.

00:16:12 ◼   ► And so that means we are joining our friends at relay, which is ourselves.

00:16:16 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:16:16 ◼   ► Just go with me on this.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Uh, we are joining our friends at relay and we are doing another fundraiser for St. Jude

00:16:22 ◼   ► Children's Research Hospital.

00:16:23 ◼   ► So here's the thing, St. Jude before it opened in 1962, childhood cancer was pretty much considered

00:16:31 ◼   ► incurable.

00:16:32 ◼   ► And today, thanks in no small part to the money that you, you have given to St. Jude

00:16:38 ◼   ► and that St. Jude has spent on research and development.

00:16:41 ◼   ► Now more than 80% of U S childhood cancer patients survive, which is incredible.

00:16:47 ◼   ► Additionally, St. Jude, uh, is willing to, and does take in some of the world's most sick

00:16:53 ◼   ► children in order to help them and hopefully cure them.

00:16:57 ◼   ► They do this regardless of their race, race, ethnicity, beliefs, or perhaps most importantly,

00:17:03 ◼   ► ability to pay.

00:17:03 ◼   ► Maybe that doesn't matter to you because you're not American, but for us, uh, poor Americans,

00:17:08 ◼   ► uh, that makes a big difference because having a child with a catastrophic illness like this

00:17:13 ◼   ► can not only bankrupt your life, but bankrupt you financially.

00:17:17 ◼   ► And that's just no fun.

00:17:18 ◼   ► It's no fun for anyone.

00:17:19 ◼   ► So, uh, as we do every year, we are going to call this to your attention for, uh, today

00:17:25 ◼   ► and in the month of September.

00:17:26 ◼   ► And we are going to ask of you to please scrape together whatever money you can and send even

00:17:32 ◼   ► just five bucks to St. Jude.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Uh, you can do that at stjude.org slash ATP, S-T-J-U-D-E.org slash ATP.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Now we're going to talk later about how Apple has announced when the iPhone keynote announcement

00:17:44 ◼   ► will be.

00:17:45 ◼   ► Marco, if one is in the mood and in, in, in, if somebody is going to be buying a new phone

00:17:52 ◼   ► this year and feeling really guilty about that rampant consumerism, what can one do to

00:17:57 ◼   ► offset that?

00:17:57 ◼   ► What a great question, Casey.

00:17:59 ◼   ► I'd be happy to talk about that right now.

00:18:01 ◼   ► What a surprise that you're asking me this question.

00:18:03 ◼   ► I think you should consider that in, in this fall season, in a mere couple of weeks, Apple

00:18:11 ◼   ► will be announcing new products that you want to buy.

00:18:15 ◼   ► Now, if you've done well in life, you have a little bit of extra money, you might be looking

00:18:20 ◼   ► at the new iPhones or the new Apple watches or the new AirPod Pros that are likely to

00:18:25 ◼   ► be, you know, released in a couple of weeks.

00:18:27 ◼   ► And you might think, you know, my AirPod Pros still work, but boy, those new ones look great.

00:18:33 ◼   ► It's me.

00:18:34 ◼   ► My iPhone still is fine, but man, that new iPhone is so compelling.

00:18:41 ◼   ► I want it so badly.

00:18:43 ◼   ► But I just feel so much guilt about spending money on something I don't need.

00:18:49 ◼   ► Well, let me tell you, nothing cures guilt like donating to a charity.

00:18:54 ◼   ► So here's what you do.

00:18:56 ◼   ► You go buy that iPhone.

00:18:58 ◼   ► You go buy those AirPods.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Enjoy them.

00:19:01 ◼   ► You work hard for your money.

00:19:03 ◼   ► You deserve happiness and new electronics and consumerism and, you know, wasteful, you know,

00:19:09 ◼   ► anti-environmental, just purchasing all sorts of new stuff that you don't need.

00:19:12 ◼   ► You deserve it.

00:19:13 ◼   ► And the way you deserve it is by taking the amount of money that you spent in total from

00:19:19 ◼   ► from the base price of the iPhone.

00:19:21 ◼   ► Whatever you added on top of that for sales tax, shipping, Apple care, cases, storage upgrades,

00:19:28 ◼   ► different tiers of the phone, you know, bigger screen size, whatever it is.

00:19:32 ◼   ► Take the total.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Subtract the base price for that iPhone family.

00:19:37 ◼   ► That difference is the Marco offset.

00:19:39 ◼   ► That difference is your minimum donation to St. Jude.

00:19:43 ◼   ► So what you do is you enjoy your iPhone.

00:19:46 ◼   ► And when you get that charge, you see, you do that subtraction and you go to stjude.org slash ATP.

00:19:52 ◼   ► And you consider at least that amount of a donation.

00:19:56 ◼   ► If you can do more, great.

00:19:58 ◼   ► But that's a nice minimum.

00:20:00 ◼   ► So, you know, for a typical iPhone purchase, you know, maybe you get like the second or third storage tier up.

00:20:05 ◼   ► Maybe you get a case.

00:20:06 ◼   ► You're probably at a couple hundred bucks.

00:20:08 ◼   ► That's a nice minimum donation to consider.

00:20:10 ◼   ► If you're able to spend that money on an iPhone this fall, let's be honest, you probably don't need it.

00:20:15 ◼   ► But if you're willing to spend that, you can easily spend a couple hundred bucks to help St. Jude cure childhood cancer.

00:20:23 ◼   ► So, take that few hundred bucks or whatever your Marco offset is.

00:20:25 ◼   ► That's your minimum suggested donation.

00:20:27 ◼   ► And if you can do more, great.

00:20:29 ◼   ► If you can't do that much, but you can do some, that's great too.

00:20:32 ◼   ► You know, not everybody can actually do it.

00:20:34 ◼   ► We know that.

00:20:34 ◼   ► But whatever you can do, we'd appreciate it.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And you know what?

00:20:38 ◼   ► It would be incredibly convenient if there was a bespoke website exactly for, oh, wait, there is themarcooffset.com.

00:20:45 ◼   ► This was not made by us, but it is incredible.

00:20:49 ◼   ► You can go to themarcooffset.com and figure it out.

00:20:51 ◼   ► And after you calculate your Marco offset, let me remind you, you go to stjude.org slash

00:20:55 ◼   ► ATP to donate.

00:20:56 ◼   ► John, we have kind of been bogarting the show.

00:20:59 ◼   ► Do you have anything to add before we move on to your favorite, which is follow-up?

00:21:03 ◼   ► Yeah, we'll be doing our donations probably next week because we didn't get our acts together

00:21:07 ◼   ► soon enough.

00:21:08 ◼   ► And technically it's not September, so I'm going to give us a pass on this one.

00:21:10 ◼   ► But I was just thinking about it when Marco was describing his thing.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Our donation is kind of like the Syracuse offset because it's like you take the base price of a

00:21:19 ◼   ► Mac Pro and subtract it from what I spent on my Mac Pro system, and that's how much we're

00:21:23 ◼   ► going to donate.

00:21:23 ◼   ► But we'll talk about that next week.

00:21:24 ◼   ► Anyway, our donations are incoming.

00:21:26 ◼   ► We will hope to lead by example.

00:21:29 ◼   ► As many of our listeners have done through these many years, people have donated just huge amounts

00:21:34 ◼   ► of money to St. Jude.

00:21:35 ◼   ► We hope this year will be just as successful as last year.

00:21:38 ◼   ► So please give what you can.

00:21:40 ◼   ► You'll be hearing from us throughout September.

00:21:41 ◼   ► Yeah, and just to wrap this up, I will be, or at least the plan is for me to be at the

00:21:45 ◼   ► podcast-a-thon, which is Friday, September 19th, starting at 12 p.m. Eastern.

00:21:50 ◼   ► It will be myself and all the usual suspects and Brad Doughty as well.

00:21:54 ◼   ► But here's the thing.

00:21:55 ◼   ► Again, one last time, stjude.org slash ATP.

00:22:00 ◼   ► Their tagline for this year is absolutely great.

00:22:03 ◼   ► Help give these kids more tomorrows.

00:22:06 ◼   ► stjude.org slash ATP.

00:22:08 ◼   ► All right, let's do some follow-up.

00:22:10 ◼   ► We talked last week.

00:22:12 ◼   ► Now I'm having another sad.

00:22:13 ◼   ► We talked last week about how there was some evidence that maybe there would be cellular

00:22:18 ◼   ► Macs.

00:22:18 ◼   ► Marco and I were doing the happy dance together.

00:22:20 ◼   ► We celebrated together.

00:22:22 ◼   ► And then an anonymous person wrote in and said the following regarding Felipe Esposito's

00:22:28 ◼   ► articles at Macworld about possible cellular Macs.

00:22:31 ◼   ► I've seen the same code as he's seen, and I don't see cellular Macs.

00:22:35 ◼   ► What I saw were Macs with Apple's Wi-Fi and Bluetooth chip, but no cellular.

00:22:38 ◼   ► I also saw no evidence of an M4 Ultra existing at all, even though the leak code has all chips

00:22:44 ◼   ► up until the M6 lineup.

00:22:45 ◼   ► In case you're curious about the origin of these rumors, Apple ships KDKs, kernel development

00:22:51 ◼   ► kits, for all builds of macOS.

00:22:53 ◼   ► And the one for macOS 26 beta 4 included all the freaking make files they used to build

00:22:58 ◼   ► kernels for all their devices.

00:22:59 ◼   ► They shipped it and took it down fairly quickly, but the damage was done.

00:23:03 ◼   ► See, you should learn from my example.

00:23:04 ◼   ► Remember how excited you guys were about the cellular Mac rumor or whatever, and then you

00:23:07 ◼   ► mentioned the M4 Ultra thing, and I'm like, you know, whatever, show it to me.

00:23:11 ◼   ► See, when you've been burned as many times as I have about Mac Pro rumors, they just roll

00:23:15 ◼   ► right off you.

00:23:16 ◼   ► It's like, it just doesn't affect me at all.

00:23:18 ◼   ► I don't care until they actually ship something, but you got all excited and maybe there was

00:23:22 ◼   ► nothing to be excited about.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Yeah, indeed.

00:23:24 ◼   ► All right.

00:23:25 ◼   ► And then a different anonymous person with regard to accidental Siri activations.

00:23:29 ◼   ► We don't give awards to ATP feedback.

00:23:32 ◼   ► This might get my award for the most bold feedback we've ever gotten.

00:23:38 ◼   ► So with that in mind, anonymous writes, I wanted to bring up something you have hopefully not

00:23:42 ◼   ► experienced, but I sure have.

00:23:44 ◼   ► I've started taking my Apple watch off and putting it on my phone and my phone.

00:23:48 ◼   ► phone in a drawer when I'm having alone time with my partner.

00:23:51 ◼   ► Nothing kills the mood quite like your watch piping up and saying, I didn't quite get that.

00:23:55 ◼   ► And while you're otherwise athletically engaged.

00:23:58 ◼   ► And if that were the worst of it, I probably wouldn't complain, but sometimes the responses

00:24:02 ◼   ► are far more awkward.

00:24:03 ◼   ► The worst part is that I 100% want my intimate aerobics to count toward my exercise totals,

00:24:09 ◼   ► but not at the expense of ending up in a virtual three-way with Siri.

00:24:15 ◼   ► I can only just laugh at how modernity has invaded upon the most basic actions of human

00:24:20 ◼   ► life.

00:24:20 ◼   ► Again, just well done.

00:24:23 ◼   ► Absolutely beautiful.

00:24:25 ◼   ► How long do you think before Apple adds that to the workouts?

00:24:27 ◼   ► I mean, there is an indoor other.

00:24:31 ◼   ► Why does it have to be indoor?

00:24:33 ◼   ► Free your mind, Marco.

00:24:35 ◼   ► I think in this case, listener, I think you got to just give up those numbers.

00:24:39 ◼   ► I think just, you know, go take a walk outside afterwards.

00:24:42 ◼   ► But they've got it in a drawer and it's still like waking up and then interrupting.

00:24:46 ◼   ► So maybe it just needs to be like a little soundproof chamber or like in another room.

00:24:49 ◼   ► Or also, well, first of all, yeah, like is it when you take it off your wrist, it locks.

00:24:54 ◼   ► Does it respond to Siri activations when it's locked?

00:24:56 ◼   ► Well, it's the phone too.

00:24:57 ◼   ► It's the watch on the phone or in the drawer.

00:24:59 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, the phone would do it.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:01 ◼   ► I would say, you know, consider, again, for reducing accidental activations, consider like,

00:25:06 ◼   ► you know, putting, turning back on the word, hey, as part of the hail phrase, you know, that

00:25:12 ◼   ► helps reduce accidental activations.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Or, you know, whatever Apple device that you think you don't necessarily need the voice hailing

00:25:20 ◼   ► on, turn it off.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Because not only does that reduce this problem, but it also makes it more reliable when you

00:25:28 ◼   ► say, hey, thing, it makes it less likely that the wrong device will respond.

00:25:32 ◼   ► So, you know, it is, it's useful to like minimize the number of devices that are even listening

00:25:37 ◼   ► for it.

00:25:37 ◼   ► And then within those devices, turn on the, hey, and we'll reduce that.

00:25:41 ◼   ► But, you know, maybe consider putting the phone further away.

00:25:45 ◼   ► Look, what's, what's going to happen?

00:25:46 ◼   ► It's going to vibrate.

00:25:47 ◼   ► Are you going to want to look at it?

00:25:49 ◼   ► Are you going to want to keep doing what you're doing?

00:25:50 ◼   ► Well, maybe you want it to vibrate, Marco.

00:25:52 ◼   ► I couldn't say it with a straight face.

00:25:54 ◼   ► As soon as I said vibrate, I realized, oh, man.

00:25:59 ◼   ► I'm such a child.

00:26:00 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:26:00 ◼   ► Let these stats go.

00:26:01 ◼   ► You don't need those stats.

00:26:03 ◼   ► You can take a walk and you'll be fine.

00:26:05 ◼   ► Like you don't, you can let those stats go and maybe consider keeping the devices further

00:26:10 ◼   ► away.

00:26:10 ◼   ► I think, yeah, the real issue is just keeping the devices further away.

00:26:13 ◼   ► It's less about the stats and more about the, I didn't get that.

00:26:16 ◼   ► But that's okay.

00:26:17 ◼   ► John, Marco and I were being sad earlier.

00:26:20 ◼   ► We were sad earlier.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Are you sad, angry?

00:26:22 ◼   ► Show me how you feel on this chart.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Are you sad or angry with AppleCare 1 right now?

00:26:28 ◼   ► Nah, I don't know.

00:26:30 ◼   ► I'm feeling better than I was last week because I feel like this whole issue was resolved.

00:26:33 ◼   ► To review, AppleCare 1 is the new warranty bundle thing that Apple has that is incredibly

00:26:38 ◼   ► ill-conceived and that allows you to put multiple devices on a single monthly payment for AppleCare,

00:26:44 ◼   ► but only if those devices belong to a single Apple ID, which is very limiting, and they will

00:26:51 ◼   ► harass you and give you 24 hours notice via email if they detect any of your devices seem

00:26:56 ◼   ► to not be on the Apple ID that they expect.

00:26:58 ◼   ► They will cancel your coverage and refund you, leaving your thing without coverage if you

00:27:02 ◼   ► do not take some action within 24 hours.

00:27:05 ◼   ► So that's the terrible system that AppleCare 1 is.

00:27:09 ◼   ► I tried to sign up for it.

00:27:11 ◼   ► Apple suggested that I sign up devices that don't belong to me, and I did, and then it

00:27:14 ◼   ► pulled them off.

00:27:15 ◼   ► And then I had devices that all belonged to me, and they still kept pulling one off.

00:27:18 ◼   ► So as I said I would, I eventually spent one morning just talking to Apple support and trying

00:27:24 ◼   ► to get this resolved, and I did.

00:27:26 ◼   ► Here is the resolution.

00:27:27 ◼   ► They said that they looked up in their database of known issues or whatever that the thing I

00:27:33 ◼   ► was experiencing, which is we have a Mac here that has multiple accounts on it, and it kept

00:27:38 ◼   ► getting yanked off AppleCare 1.

00:27:39 ◼   ► They said, oh yeah, that's a known issue.

00:27:41 ◼   ► The only current workaround is to not use your Mac like that, as in don't have more than one

00:27:47 ◼   ► account on your Mac.

00:27:48 ◼   ► I believe it's called You're Holding It Wrong.

00:27:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:51 ◼   ► So a lot of, when I posted about this on Mastodon, some people were saying, so they shipped it

00:27:55 ◼   ► with this known issue.

00:27:55 ◼   ► That's usually not what known issue means.

00:27:58 ◼   ► It usually means they shipped it, weren't aware this was a problem, but then very quickly

00:28:02 ◼   ► they realized it was a problem because they work in support, and you get the same complaint.

00:28:06 ◼   ► On that subject, again, my very nice support person, speaking for themselves only and not

00:28:12 ◼   ► for Apple, said that they believe that AppleCare 1 will probably have to be

00:28:17 ◼   ► changed because the current support volume on the AppleCare support line is unsustainable.

00:28:22 ◼   ► I didn't have the heart to tell this person that I'm not sure AppleCare is that your support

00:28:25 ◼   ► volume is unsustainable because presumably they chose the structure of AppleCare 1 because

00:28:32 ◼   ► they feel like that's the most financially viable because the more devices you allow someone

00:28:36 ◼   ► to put into a bundle, the more money they save and the less money Apple makes on AppleCare.

00:28:40 ◼   ► That's the only reason I can think of why they would try to confine AppleCare 1 to a single

00:28:44 ◼   ► Apple ID as opposed to allowing it to be used by an entire family, which would make much

00:28:48 ◼   ► more sense, which is exactly what the support person said.

00:28:50 ◼   ► They're like, I don't know why they didn't put it on family.

00:28:52 ◼   ► Again, I didn't have the heart to explain to them.

00:28:54 ◼   ► Money.

00:28:55 ◼   ► Money is the reason.

00:28:56 ◼   ► Anyway, I don't have any faith that they will change this plan because the fact that they

00:29:02 ◼   ► ship this shows that they don't have enough brain cells to rub together about what makes

00:29:06 ◼   ► a good AppleCare 1 plan.

00:29:07 ◼   ► Anyway, so what's my solution?

00:29:08 ◼   ► The solution offered to me by the helpful support person was cancel AppleCare 1 and then

00:29:13 ◼   ► sign up for plain old AppleCare Plus individually on all your devices.

00:29:17 ◼   ► And I asked, will I be able to sign up for the plans that I had before AppleCare 1?

00:29:22 ◼   ► And the answer was no, because first of all, Apple no longer offers a bunch of plans that

00:29:25 ◼   ► don't have theft and loss protection.

00:29:27 ◼   ► And those plans used to be cheaper.

00:29:28 ◼   ► And second of all, things like my two-year prepaid upfront AppleCare on my one-year-old

00:29:32 ◼   ► phone, I can't get those at all in any form.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Like that's the cheapest way you could get two years of coverage on phone because I change

00:29:38 ◼   ► my phone every two years.

00:29:39 ◼   ► When I re-signed up for AppleCare on my phone, I had to go to the more expensive monthly plan

00:29:46 ◼   ► with theft and loss that's, you know, so on and so forth.

00:29:48 ◼   ► So the upshot is I canceled AppleCare 1.

00:29:51 ◼   ► I'm out of the AppleCare 1 business.

00:29:52 ◼   ► It is turned off everywhere.

00:29:54 ◼   ► I got refunded for it.

00:29:55 ◼   ► And then I re-signed up for regular AppleCare at higher prices than I was paying before to

00:30:00 ◼   ► the tune of an additional $48.03 per year that I am now paying.

00:30:03 ◼   ► And I'm paying that to cover one fewer device because to save money, I left my iPad off AppleCare.

00:30:10 ◼   ► It used to have AppleCare with a prepaid plan.

00:30:12 ◼   ► Now it no longer has AppleCare because otherwise it would have been that I was losing $68.03 per

00:30:18 ◼   ► year.

00:30:18 ◼   ► So this entire fiasco has been a learning opportunity for me and hopefully for you.

00:30:23 ◼   ► My advice is that no one should sign up for AppleCare 1.

00:30:27 ◼   ► And you may be thinking, well, what if I don't have multiple accounts?

00:30:30 ◼   ► What if I'm a single person living alone?

00:30:31 ◼   ► I have all my devices belong to me.

00:30:33 ◼   ► It's so buggy that I have a feeling that even in those situations, there could be problems.

00:30:37 ◼   ► And here's the thing.

00:30:38 ◼   ► If there's any kind of problem, they send you an email and you have 24 hours from the time

00:30:43 ◼   ► they sent the email, not the time you read it, to do something to remedy the situation.

00:30:48 ◼   ► Otherwise, you lose AppleCare coverage.

00:30:50 ◼   ► So many situations where people could be like, oh, you know, it's like a device that

00:30:55 ◼   ► they left somewhere or they went on vacation and they come back.

00:30:57 ◼   ► They don't have warranty coverage or they go on vacation and aren't checking their regular

00:31:00 ◼   ► email and the thing gets pulled off warranty and they drop it in the water.

00:31:03 ◼   ► Like a warranty plan should not be designed like this.

00:31:06 ◼   ► I recommend that nobody do this.

00:31:07 ◼   ► But if you insist on doing it, be sure that you do not have any devices that more than

00:31:12 ◼   ► one Apple ID ever signed into.

00:31:14 ◼   ► And that includes any Mac with multiple accounts, even if they're all quote unquote your account,

00:31:17 ◼   ► like you have a developer Apple ID and a regular Apple ID, that would screw it up.

00:31:21 ◼   ► That would run afoul of this.

00:31:22 ◼   ► So, yeah.

00:31:23 ◼   ► And I really hope that nice support person is right, that the unsustainable support load

00:31:27 ◼   ► of AppleCare one will cause Apple to change the plan.

00:31:30 ◼   ► And if they do, you'll hear about it here.

00:31:32 ◼   ► But it'll take a lot for me to go back onto this plan, considering the thing that was supposed

00:31:37 ◼   ► to save me $18 a month is now costing me $48 a year, more than I was paying before.

00:31:42 ◼   ► Oh, and the thing that they offered me to make up for this bad situation was I can pick any

00:31:47 ◼   ► accessory from the Apple online store for $200 or less.

00:31:50 ◼   ► And I mean, that more than makes up for the difference that I'm losing on this, which is

00:31:55 ◼   ► nice of them, but I don't really need any accessories right now.

00:31:58 ◼   ► My wife picked out a Mophie three in one charger, but it's out of stock.

00:32:01 ◼   ► So I'm not sure what we're going to do on that, because they said, well, you can wait

00:32:06 ◼   ► for it to come back and stop, or you can pick something else.

00:32:08 ◼   ► Maybe I'll just wait until like the iPhone 17s are out and I'll buy a case with it.

00:32:14 ◼   ► And the case will be like $60 instead of $200, but I'll still come out ahead for the year.

00:32:18 ◼   ► Anyway, AppleCare one, thumbs down.

00:32:21 ◼   ► So to be clear, AppleCare one is literally broken on your configuration, and there is no way

00:32:30 ◼   ► they can put you back on the plans you had.

00:32:34 ◼   ► No, I mean, I didn't press that too hard because I know what it's like to be in these companies.

00:32:37 ◼   ► Like, I'm sure they don't have, they literally don't have a way to do it.

00:32:40 ◼   ► Like, because they're, especially for plans that are no longer, like what they should have

00:32:44 ◼   ► just done is like, because I said, instead of letting me pick out a $200 accessory, can you

00:32:47 ◼   ► just give me a $200 gift card or something?

00:32:49 ◼   ► Like I'm looking just for cash reimbursement.

00:32:51 ◼   ► And they said they couldn't do that either.

00:32:52 ◼   ► And also keep in mind, it's not like the unsupportable call volume is all people with

00:32:57 ◼   ► my specific weird problem with multiple accounts on Macs.

00:33:00 ◼   ► The problem, you know, as characterized by the person is that AppleCare one sends you

00:33:04 ◼   ► threatening emails and people get the emails and they don't understand why.

00:33:08 ◼   ► A lot of them are legitimate as in, hey, Apple, not legitimate, but like, hey, AppleCare one

00:33:12 ◼   ► suggested that I put my wife's phone on and that should never work.

00:33:15 ◼   ► And it didn't work.

00:33:16 ◼   ► And people, it's happening to everybody there because Apple's own thing says, sign

00:33:20 ◼   ► up with these devices and people like, great, I'll do that.

00:33:22 ◼   ► And then they get threatening emails and then they call support.

00:33:24 ◼   ► Like that I imagine is a bigger problem than my specific known issue with multiple accounts

00:33:29 ◼   ► on the Mac or whatever.

00:33:30 ◼   ► But the whole, the whole thing is designed badly and people don't understand how it works

00:33:36 ◼   ► because it works in a way that people don't expect.

00:33:37 ◼   ► Including Apple, uh, with regard to trackpad dragging, uh, this was your complaint, John,

00:33:45 ◼   ► last time.

00:33:45 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:33:46 ◼   ► But it was like an ask EDP of like, how do you use the trackpad?

00:33:48 ◼   ► And I realized I had, I had stopped using it the old fashioned way and started using it

00:33:52 ◼   ► the newfangled way, but I don't like the newfangled way.

00:33:54 ◼   ► So I was intentionally going back, said I was going to go back to the old fashioned way.

00:33:57 ◼   ► And a lot of people had some suggestions to things that would help with my annoyance with

00:34:02 ◼   ► trying to do like one finger dragging.

00:34:03 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:04 ◼   ► So many people have suggested, um, three finger drag.

00:34:08 ◼   ► You can find this in system settings, accessibility, pointer control, trackpad options, dragging style,

00:34:14 ◼   ► three finger drag.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Uh, and what that lets you do is when you move three fingers across the trackpad, guess what?

00:34:19 ◼   ► You're going to drag.

00:34:20 ◼   ► I tried this and I was overjoyed.

00:34:23 ◼   ► I had forgotten that this was an option.

00:34:25 ◼   ► I had known at one point and I thought, oh my gosh, this is incredible.

00:34:28 ◼   ► This is going to be so much nicer.

00:34:29 ◼   ► And then I went to flick my three fingers in order to go to a different space because as

00:34:34 ◼   ► we've covered many times on the show, I'm a devout spaces person and I can't do that anymore

00:34:39 ◼   ► because now it's a three finger drag.

00:34:40 ◼   ► And yes, I know I could like rejigger the, uh, the stroke, the, the, whatever I'm thinking

00:34:45 ◼   ► of not hot key, not stroke, but whatever the, uh, gesture, there it is for, uh, for switching

00:34:50 ◼   ► between spaces.

00:34:50 ◼   ► And I think the new default when you turn on three finger drag is to do a four finger drag

00:34:54 ◼   ► for spaces.

00:34:55 ◼   ► But I have years upon years of muscle memory for three finger drag to switch spaces.

00:35:01 ◼   ► And I don't typically have a problem with dragging as it is because I use the faux, you know, the,

00:35:07 ◼   ► the, the bottom left corner, the faux button on the bottom left corner, uh, in order to do

00:35:11 ◼   ► my pointing and clicking.

00:35:12 ◼   ► So I did love this idea for a hot second and then immediately went right back.

00:35:16 ◼   ► But John, have you tried this?

00:35:18 ◼   ► I did.

00:35:18 ◼   ► I found it a little bit awkward to do it first.

00:35:20 ◼   ► And like, there's also like, there's also like three fingers up for like app expose and stuff.

00:35:24 ◼   ► There's a lot of things that want three fingers to, for the gesture.

00:35:27 ◼   ► Um, so there was that little bit of interference.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Um, even though I don't use spaces, I do occasionally use like the expose three fingers up or whatever

00:35:34 ◼   ► thing.

00:35:34 ◼   ► Uh, but there's also drag lock in the same pop-up menu, uh, and drag lock.

00:35:39 ◼   ► I couldn't quite figure out until I read the documentation and they should have like a tool

00:35:42 ◼   ► tip or something, but basically with drag lock, you double tap an item, but then drag without

00:35:47 ◼   ► lifting your finger after the second tap.

00:35:48 ◼   ► I did not figure this out on my own.

00:35:50 ◼   ► I had to read the docs.

00:35:50 ◼   ► Uh, and then dragging continues when you left your finger.

00:35:53 ◼   ► That's the thing with the three finger drag.

00:35:54 ◼   ► People were saying you can three finger drag something.

00:35:56 ◼   ► And if you like hit the edge of the track pad, if you quickly pick up your fingers and move

00:36:00 ◼   ► them and go, it continues the drag.

00:36:01 ◼   ► And then with drag lock, uh, it, uh, it, uh, it locks the drag.

00:36:06 ◼   ► Like you don't even have to quickly reposition or whatever.

00:36:08 ◼   ► So there's lots of accessibility options to essentially deal with the situation where you hit the edge

00:36:13 ◼   ► of the track pad during a drag.

00:36:14 ◼   ► And that was one of the things I was complaining about, or you can just use a mouse.

00:36:18 ◼   ► But anyway, these options are great.

00:36:19 ◼   ► Check them out.

00:36:19 ◼   ► They are buried in accessibility, but they're very useful.

00:36:22 ◼   ► All right.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Apple's blood oxygen feature workaround has now, uh, brought around a new Massimo lawsuit.

00:36:30 ◼   ► So last week we talked about how Apple had, uh, gotten customs and border protection to agree

00:36:35 ◼   ► with them that, oh, well, if you're not showing the blood oxygen reading on the watch, I guess

00:36:41 ◼   ► that's fine.

00:36:41 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:42 ◼   ► And so, uh, CBP said, sure, why not?

00:36:44 ◼   ► And Apple did some software updates to turn all this on and Massimo understandably is not happy.

00:36:50 ◼   ► So reading from Mac rumors, medical technology company Massimo on Wednesday filed a lawsuit

00:36:53 ◼   ► against us customs and border protection in which it challenged the agency's decision to

00:36:58 ◼   ► allow Apple to restore blood oxygen monitoring to its Apple watch models in a complaint filed

00:37:01 ◼   ► August 20 in the U S district court for the district of Columbia.

00:37:05 ◼   ► Massimo said the customs acted unlawfully when it ruled on August one that Apple can import

00:37:10 ◼   ► watches with pulse ox oximetry technology without notifying Massimo.

00:37:13 ◼   ► Massimo said it only discovered the ruling on August 14 when Apple publicly announced it

00:37:18 ◼   ► would be reintroducing the pulse oximetry functionality through a software update.

00:37:22 ◼   ► Massimo claims CBP exceeded its authority when it issued the ruling permitting Apple's redesigned

00:37:27 ◼   ► approach.

00:37:28 ◼   ► It's the problem with talking about any of this, uh, things that have to do with like patents

00:37:32 ◼   ► and lawsuits.

00:37:33 ◼   ► It never seemingly never ends.

00:37:34 ◼   ► So there's always one more lawsuit.

00:37:36 ◼   ► So anyway, I think the situation is still that you can buy Apple watch products that will

00:37:41 ◼   ► do the processing and display off the phone for now, but we'll be sure to let you know if

00:37:47 ◼   ► that changes.

00:37:47 ◼   ► But at this point, they'll still be fighting it out in court when the patents expire in

00:37:51 ◼   ► 2020.

00:37:52 ◼   ► All right, uh, speaking of dumb things, apparently the UK's dumb demand for backdoor into Apple

00:37:58 ◼   ► encryption may be going away.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Uh, Jess Weatherbed at The Verge writes, the United Kingdom will no longer force Apple to

00:38:04 ◼   ► provide backdoor access to secure user data protected by the company's iCloud encryption

00:38:07 ◼   ► service, according to the US Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard.

00:38:10 ◼   ► This announcement follows the UK issuing a secret order in January this year, uh, demanding Apple

00:38:15 ◼   ► provide it with backdoor access to encrypted files uploaded by users worldwide.

00:38:18 ◼   ► In response, Apple polled the ability for new users in the UK to sign up for its Advanced

00:38:21 ◼   ► Data Protection, or ADP, encrypted iCloud storage offering, and challenged the order, winning

00:38:25 ◼   ► the right to publicly discuss the case in April.

00:38:27 ◼   ► Earlier this year, US officials started examining whether the UK order had violated the Bilateral

00:38:31 ◼   ► Cloud Act Agreement, which bars the UK and US from issuing demands for each other's data.

00:38:36 ◼   ► With the order now reportedly removed, it's unclear if Apple will restore access to its Advanced

00:38:41 ◼   ► Data Protection Service in the UK.

00:38:43 ◼   ► The BBC adds, uh, the BBC understands Apple has not yet received any formal communication

00:38:47 ◼   ► from either the US or UK governments.

00:38:49 ◼   ► Quote, we do not comment on operational matters, including confirming or denying the existence

00:38:52 ◼   ► of such notices.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Quote, a UK government spokesperson said.

00:38:56 ◼   ► So when we talked about this, that was the part of the problem with it, is that it, like,

00:38:59 ◼   ► if, uh, the UK issued this order, they would also bar Apple from acknowledging that the

00:39:03 ◼   ► order exists.

00:39:05 ◼   ► And so we're always like, how are we ever going to know whether this is still in effect

00:39:10 ◼   ► or whether it has been withdrawn or whatever?

00:39:12 ◼   ► But here we have an announcement from someone in the US government.

00:39:15 ◼   ► Unfortunately, announcements for people in the US government, this was announced on X of

00:39:18 ◼   ► all friggin' things, is not that reliable.

00:39:21 ◼   ► So I was looking for some confirmation other than a post on X from an unreliable person in

00:39:25 ◼   ► our current terrible government.

00:39:26 ◼   ► And then the BBC does not help by saying, well, if this is a thing that happened, we

00:39:32 ◼   ► couldn't tell you about it anyway.

00:39:33 ◼   ► But it seems like maybe that ridiculous demand is not going to take effect, which I think is

00:39:41 ◼   ► a good thing, but I can't be entirely sure, because how can you be sure about anything these

00:39:45 ◼   ► days?

00:39:45 ◼   ► Lots of, there's secrecy combined with unreliability.

00:39:49 ◼   ► I wish I could believe what, uh, these, uh, terrible government officials would say.

00:39:53 ◼   ► And I wish there were not gag orders associated with everything having to do with this kind

00:39:58 ◼   ► of thing.

00:39:59 ◼   ► So I still don't feel great about this whole thing, but I think this is potentially good

00:40:04 ◼   ► news.

00:40:04 ◼   ► I mean, I would hope so.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Cause this, this thing that the UK wanted was pretty, pretty bananas.

00:40:10 ◼   ► So, uh, if it really is going away, I think that's good for everyone involved.

00:40:14 ◼   ► We shall see.

00:40:15 ◼   ► All right.

00:40:16 ◼   ► Uh, with regard to the studio display two and potentially having an A19 pro chip, a couple of

00:40:22 ◼   ► very interesting points that were sent to us, uh, Daniel Luce writes, uh, reminder that

00:40:27 ◼   ► the A13 in the current studio display has 64 gigs of storage, which is the lowest amount

00:40:33 ◼   ► of storage Apple ever bundled with an A13.

00:40:35 ◼   ► The A19 pro will be the iPhone 17 pros chip.

00:40:38 ◼   ► And there are rumors that the iPhone 17 pro will start at 256 gigs of storage.

00:40:42 ◼   ► That's the same today as the starting storage capacity for the iMac.

00:40:45 ◼   ► Oh boy.

00:40:46 ◼   ► I joked to like, Hey, how is that a monitor with an A19 pro?

00:40:49 ◼   ► How is that not an iMac?

00:40:50 ◼   ► And I said, well, you know, it doesn't have an SSD, but I forgot.

00:40:52 ◼   ► Of course it does have storage for the OS.

00:40:54 ◼   ► I mean, 64 gigs.

00:40:55 ◼   ► Isn't really big enough to be an SSD for a Mac, but it's overkill to boot whatever the

00:41:00 ◼   ► heck the thing is running from the display.

00:41:02 ◼   ► And yeah, if the A19 pro has 256 gigs of storage in the monitor and the iMac also starts at

00:41:09 ◼   ► 256, so what a world.

00:41:13 ◼   ► And then Fabian Hausler writes, it is possible that Apple is using differently binned chips

00:41:17 ◼   ► for the display that otherwise would have gone into the bin.

00:41:20 ◼   ► Apple usually only disables CPU or GPU cores on their chips for most consumer devices.

00:41:24 ◼   ► On the A18 pro, these only take up about 24% of the total chip area.

00:41:28 ◼   ► If the defect occurs anywhere else, the neural engine, display controller, IO controller, memory

00:41:32 ◼   ► controller, et cetera, the chip would be unsuitable for a phone, but it might still be used for

00:41:36 ◼   ► display.

00:41:37 ◼   ► I do want, isn't the display used the neural engine and stuff though for like the center stage

00:41:42 ◼   ► thing, like I'm wondering if it really is using, I see where they're going with this.

00:41:45 ◼   ► Like maybe there's some part of the chip that is not used at all inside the monitor, but

00:41:49 ◼   ► the neural engine is probably not it.

00:41:51 ◼   ► The IO controller is probably not it, not the memory controller.

00:41:54 ◼   ► The display controller, probably not.

00:41:57 ◼   ► I mean, like I'm not sure which part you can accept, but I could imagine them using an

00:42:01 ◼   ► SOC with like multiple GPU cores that are dead instead of just like one or whatever.

00:42:07 ◼   ► So yeah, maybe reusing what would otherwise be parts that were useless does

00:42:12 ◼   ► make a lot of sense.

00:42:12 ◼   ► With regard to Apple's hide my email feature, Timothy Martin writes, you accurately described

00:42:17 ◼   ► how conventional hide my email works when you go to settings and create a specific hide my

00:42:20 ◼   ► email address for use.

00:42:21 ◼   ► However, if you sign in with Apple to create an account and choose to hide your email when

00:42:26 ◼   ► creating that account, it has an additional benefit.

00:42:28 ◼   ► It will only accept emails from domains owned or provided by the developer of that app or

00:42:32 ◼   ► service or website.

00:42:32 ◼   ► So if they sell or share your email, they are breached, et cetera.

00:42:35 ◼   ► The provided email address is entirely useless to anyone else.

00:42:38 ◼   ► It sounds great, right?

00:42:39 ◼   ► Well, maybe not.

00:42:40 ◼   ► David Beck writes, hide my email.

00:42:42 ◼   ► Such a bad idea.

00:42:43 ◼   ► A while back, I got fed up with all the spam I get and decided to switch email addresses

00:42:46 ◼   ► and use it for everything.

00:42:47 ◼   ► It seems like a great idea until you realize it's tied to the domain it's used with.

00:42:50 ◼   ► And if some other server tries to send to that address, it just silently gets discarded.

00:42:55 ◼   ► There's no way for you even to see that something was blocked.

00:42:58 ◼   ► Sometimes it fails immediately because the site uses separate domains for their site and

00:43:01 ◼   ► for sending emails.

00:43:02 ◼   ► Sometimes it'll work until one day the site changes providers.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Sometimes most things will work, but certain features send from another domain.

00:43:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:08 ◼   ► I think Icon Factory was complaining that one of their Kickstarters had this problem because

00:43:11 ◼   ► lots of people signed up with it for hide my email, but then said they were never getting

00:43:15 ◼   ► any of the Kickstarter emails.

00:43:16 ◼   ► The same type of thing.

00:43:17 ◼   ► Like the idea that when you sign up for an account on a website that all email will come

00:43:23 ◼   ► from that website's domain is not always the case.

00:43:25 ◼   ► Like with Kickstarter versus like the, the domain of Icon Factory that is running the

00:43:30 ◼   ► Kickstarter, like with a platform thing, or even just plain old websites that sometimes

00:43:33 ◼   ► have you sign in through one domain, but land on the actual website on a different domain.

00:43:38 ◼   ► And again, this like maybe would be a thing that people could deal with if they had visibility

00:43:42 ◼   ► into it.

00:43:42 ◼   ► Like as David points out, like the emails just get silently blocked and you just, you just

00:43:46 ◼   ► think you never see them.

00:43:47 ◼   ► You have no way to go dig them out and retrieve them.

00:43:49 ◼   ► You don't have a way to say, Oh, and for this email also allow this domain.

00:43:52 ◼   ► And it's just so, so, uh, non-transparent and so feature poor that it's not the type

00:44:00 ◼   ► of thing that I would want to use.

00:44:01 ◼   ► And we got, these two things are representative of the feedback we were getting people, uh,

00:44:05 ◼   ► reminding us about the, the two different kinds of hide my email, the one that's restricted

00:44:09 ◼   ► to a domain and the one that's not.

00:44:10 ◼   ► And then lots of people saying they like it, but the restrictions, the domains is too harsh.

00:44:15 ◼   ► And other people saying, I'll never use it again because it messed up something XYZ where

00:44:19 ◼   ► I wasn't getting emails and I didn't realize it.

00:44:21 ◼   ► So I'm not a fan, but some people do find it useful.

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00:46:34 ◼   ► So we've gotten some news that on September 9th at 1 p.m., one true time zone or 10 a.m.

00:46:42 ◼   ► Pacific time, there's going to be a Apple event, presumably to release the iPhone's 17.

00:46:49 ◼   ► I did not get an in-person invite, which is not surprising.

00:46:52 ◼   ► I presume you guys did not either.

00:46:53 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:46:54 ◼   ► I'm really in with Tim right now.

00:46:56 ◼   ► I'll be front row.

00:46:57 ◼   ► I'll be right next to Al Gore.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:47:00 ◼   ► This was not surprising, but nevertheless, it would be fun to do that sometime.

00:47:03 ◼   ► I've never been able to do that.

00:47:04 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:47:04 ◼   ► I would love to.

00:47:04 ◼   ► All right.

00:47:06 ◼   ► So there is an interactive logo on Apple.com, which is like a – I think they're trying

00:47:11 ◼   ► to imply it's a cool blue Apple logo, and as you mouse around it or click it, it'll –

00:47:16 ◼   ► I think it's supposed to look like a thermal camera, like you're appointing a thermal camera

00:47:19 ◼   ► at something to see the hot parts go to red and then to white for the hottest part, and

00:47:25 ◼   ► then the cool parts are black to blue.

00:47:27 ◼   ► Yep.

00:47:27 ◼   ► So Sam Henry Gold wrote, I reverse-engineered Apple's thermal logo effect.

00:47:31 ◼   ► It's a 3.js shader that combines four inputs, a video texture heat map, a mouse-driven heat

00:47:37 ◼   ► map, an Apple logo mask, and a thermal-style color palette.

00:47:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:39 ◼   ► You can move your finger or cursor around on the Apple logo, and it's interactive, and you

00:47:44 ◼   ► can move around the heat thing.

00:47:45 ◼   ► But yeah, the tea leaf reading for this one is – I think it's mostly having to do with

00:47:52 ◼   ► the rumored vapor chamber cooler on the new fancy iPhone 17s, I guess maybe just the Pro

00:47:58 ◼   ► and the Pro Max, that they're actually doing something that's more significant than they

00:48:03 ◼   ► have in the past to try to keep these things cool, which will be great for Casey, who's

00:48:07 ◼   ► always complaining about the sun making his phone turn up.

00:48:09 ◼   ► Now, I want to set your expectations, Casey.

00:48:11 ◼   ► Like, I am excited that they are doing something more than just, you know, putting some piece

00:48:16 ◼   ► of metal to dissipate heat or like a thermal pad or whatever.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Vapor chamber cooling sounds cool.

00:48:20 ◼   ► It's a –

00:48:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:22 ◼   ► It's like Marco's non-working air conditioning.

00:48:24 ◼   ► It's like a phase change thing, and the phase change pulls heat away from it, right?

00:48:27 ◼   ► Anyway, that'll be great.

00:48:29 ◼   ► But I'm not entirely sure that's going to help with your screen thing.

00:48:34 ◼   ► I always feel like the phone and the sunny thing is because, like, the screen is essentially

00:48:38 ◼   ► a greenhouse.

00:48:39 ◼   ► It, like, gathers the light, and then it bounces all inside – around inside there, and it overheats.

00:48:43 ◼   ► It's not going to hurt.

00:48:45 ◼   ► I think it will be better – maybe better than it is now.

00:48:47 ◼   ► But yeah, I think you may still – you know, if it lasts twice as long, would you be satisfied?

00:48:54 ◼   ► No.

00:48:54 ◼   ► You'd be like, oh, it still turns off.

00:48:56 ◼   ► And now it turns off after two minutes instead of one minute.

00:48:58 ◼   ► So I just want you to not get your hopes up too much.

00:49:00 ◼   ► But anyway, I'm excited about the cooling stuff.

00:49:03 ◼   ► The other guess was, like, this has to do with the thing we're going to talk about in a second,

00:49:06 ◼   ► which is, like, the colors of the phones or maybe the case colors or something.

00:49:09 ◼   ► But I'm going with thermal imaging, which is weird.

00:49:11 ◼   ► A weird thing to emphasize.

00:49:13 ◼   ► The tagline is awe-dropping instead of jaw-dropping, AWE-dropping.

00:49:18 ◼   ► I guess they could only be talking about the iPhone 17 Air, the really thin one.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Does it kind of crappy battery life?

00:49:27 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:49:27 ◼   ► This – as usual, this iPhone event, like, every single thing has leaked.

00:49:31 ◼   ► We'll have maybe more of an event preview next week and our traditional iPhone 16 exit interview.

00:49:37 ◼   ► But for now, just be aware of September 9th as expected.

00:49:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:41 ◼   ► This looks – I'm excited.

00:49:42 ◼   ► Like, the iPhone event is always – it's such a hallmark of the entire Apple year.

00:49:49 ◼   ► I am not excited about the imminent release of iOS 26, as discussed earlier.

00:49:55 ◼   ► Just as a developer, that's going to be a bumpy ride.

00:49:59 ◼   ► But I am very excited for the new iPhones.

00:50:02 ◼   ► I think the rumored iPhone Air sounds really cool.

00:50:08 ◼   ► And I don't know if I'm going to want one, probably.

00:50:12 ◼   ► But I don't – like, there's going to be a lot of trade-offs there, so I'm not sure.

00:50:16 ◼   ► Marco, did you see the rumor about the possible bumper case?

00:50:19 ◼   ► For the iPhone Air?

00:50:20 ◼   ► I did.

00:50:21 ◼   ► That actually sounds really cool.

00:50:22 ◼   ► Like, I mean, I get where that rumor would come from because for people who don't remember

00:50:26 ◼   ► AntennaGate, a bumper case is a case that – they still make them for phones.

00:50:29 ◼   ► But it was big with the AntennaGate thing because the iPhone 4 had a case that would, like,

00:50:32 ◼   ► go around the sides only but leave the back entirely uncovered.

00:50:38 ◼   ► That's actually good for heating and cooling.

00:50:40 ◼   ► And if you have a thin phone, that's good to, like, maintain the feeling of thinness

00:50:45 ◼   ► because if you put a case on it, suddenly it becomes thicker and it's not as exciting.

00:50:48 ◼   ► So this would just make the edges thicker but make the whole middle of the phone thin.

00:50:53 ◼   ► So we'll see if that rumor ends up being true.

00:50:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:55 ◼   ► I mean, in practice, I never liked the iPhone 4 bumper case.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Of course, I got the free one.

00:51:01 ◼   ► Thanks, Steve.

00:51:03 ◼   ► But I didn't like it because, like Apple's silicone cases, it added a lot of friction going

00:51:09 ◼   ► in and out of pockets.

00:51:09 ◼   ► And I just – I couldn't bear it.

00:51:12 ◼   ► It was too annoying.

00:51:13 ◼   ► So I could just use the phone without a case and eventually had, like, this, like, leather

00:51:16 ◼   ► stick-on back that I got on it and it was fine.

00:51:18 ◼   ► For this – in this case, it would be presumably a lot thinner than that.

00:51:22 ◼   ► And we have, you know, a decade or so of materials advances.

00:51:26 ◼   ► And so maybe –

00:51:27 ◼   ► I think it would still be grippy, though.

00:51:29 ◼   ► Like, don't you think it would still be just as grippy?

00:51:31 ◼   ► Yeah, it would probably still be silicone.

00:51:33 ◼   ► So, you know, probably.

00:51:34 ◼   ► But who knows?

00:51:35 ◼   ► But anyway, that sounds fun.

00:51:36 ◼   ► I'll tell you.

00:51:37 ◼   ► I mean, again, we don't know anything about these phones yet.

00:51:39 ◼   ► And I don't want to get too much into it now since we'll know in, like, a week.

00:51:42 ◼   ► We don't know anything about these phones.

00:51:43 ◼   ► We know everything about these phones.

00:51:44 ◼   ► What do you want to know?

00:51:45 ◼   ► Ask me a question.

00:51:45 ◼   ► Well, OK.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess there are a lot of leaks for iPhones that almost always prove to be 100% right.

00:51:52 ◼   ► But I guess I think the iPhone Air could be very interesting because I would expect that it's going to be a lot lighter weight.

00:52:02 ◼   ► And that will just feel so good in a pocket.

00:52:05 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:52:06 ◼   ► As you've heard me talk about over the years, I always get excited whenever a new iPhone is actually lighter weight than the outgoing one, which doesn't happen very often.

00:52:15 ◼   ► Part of what I liked about the iPhone mini was that it was so much lighter.

00:52:20 ◼   ► Well, this one's going to be sized between the Max and the Pro.

00:52:24 ◼   ► So it's even bigger than your current phone, length and width-wise, if not thickness.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:29 ◼   ► So that's why it sounds interesting.

00:52:32 ◼   ► I want to see what they did here.

00:52:34 ◼   ► You know, the iPhone Pro, I buy an iPhone Pro every time or almost every time.

00:52:41 ◼   ► And it's great.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I know what to expect from it.

00:52:44 ◼   ► I don't necessarily use all the Pro features, but I like a lot of them.

00:52:48 ◼   ► If the iPhone Air loses too much of the Pro-ness, then I probably wouldn't like it.

00:52:55 ◼   ► One of the things I'm curious about is how they decide on 120 hertz on the screen.

00:53:01 ◼   ► You know, right now, only the Pro phones have 120 hertz.

00:53:06 ◼   ► Rumor is the Air has promotion.

00:53:07 ◼   ► I know.

00:53:08 ◼   ► See, that's the thing.

00:53:09 ◼   ► Like, so are you mainly just giving up battery life and additional cameras, which are not small things by any means.

00:53:19 ◼   ► Like, those are big considerations.

00:53:21 ◼   ► But if that's the main trade-off is, like, you save a bunch of weight and it feels great in the hand, maybe.

00:53:27 ◼   ► And it doesn't have the Pro-SoC.

00:53:28 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:53:30 ◼   ► Well, but, like.

00:53:31 ◼   ► I don't think you'll care about that.

00:53:32 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:53:32 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:53:33 ◼   ► I think you should get it and try it for the show and then return it if you don't like it.

00:53:36 ◼   ► I would probably keep it.

00:53:38 ◼   ► I mean, it's, but, like.

00:53:39 ◼   ► Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:53:41 ◼   ► Marco should do what, John?

00:53:43 ◼   ► Get it and try it for the show and return it if you don't like it.

00:53:46 ◼   ► How'd that work out for your Vision Pro?

00:53:47 ◼   ► What are you talking about?

00:53:49 ◼   ► I never, I never want.

00:53:50 ◼   ► You two, with two people, two of the three bought it for the show and didn't like it enough to keep it or keep it in their closet.

00:53:56 ◼   ► Prosecution rests, your honor.

00:53:57 ◼   ► Well, no.

00:53:58 ◼   ► Well, where are your Mac Pros?

00:53:59 ◼   ► Oh, nobody wants that.

00:54:01 ◼   ► There's literally nobody that wants that.

00:54:02 ◼   ► Only one of us has to buy a Mac Pro, apparently.

00:54:04 ◼   ► Uh-huh, uh-huh.

00:54:05 ◼   ► Anyways.

00:54:06 ◼   ► Sorry, carry on.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Yeah, so anyway, I think it's going to be really interesting.

00:54:09 ◼   ► We'll talk more about this once we actually know more about it, John.

00:54:12 ◼   ► But I think it'll be very interesting.

00:54:16 ◼   ► I like mixing it up sometimes.

00:54:18 ◼   ► Like when I did use the iPhone Mini for that one year that I did.

00:54:21 ◼   ► But that was, I really liked the Mini.

00:54:25 ◼   ► It was really cool in a number of ways.

00:54:26 ◼   ► And yeah, it was limited in many of these same ways.

00:54:29 ◼   ► It had worse battery life than the bigger phones.

00:54:31 ◼   ► It didn't have the Pro camera system.

00:54:33 ◼   ► It didn't have, you know, some of the Super Pro features.

00:54:36 ◼   ► But the difference between the Pro features and the regular features, I think, was a little

00:54:39 ◼   ► bit smaller then.

00:54:40 ◼   ► Like that was before promotion, before the always on screen.

00:54:42 ◼   ► Like do we know, does it have always on screen?

00:54:44 ◼   ► Do we know that?

00:54:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

00:54:46 ◼   ► So that's what I want to see with this.

00:54:48 ◼   ► It's like, how many of the Pro features does the Air have?

00:54:52 ◼   ► That's the question.

00:54:54 ◼   ► And we know some of those from the rumors.

00:54:57 ◼   ► Not all of them.

00:54:58 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Also, how much better does the Pro camera get?

00:55:02 ◼   ► You know, right now I've had, you know, the 16 Pro?

00:55:07 ◼   ► Yeah, the 16 Pro, you know, been using it for a year.

00:55:10 ◼   ► The 5X lens is kind of useful and it does.

00:55:14 ◼   ► And the pictures from it are pretty bad.

00:55:16 ◼   ► So I both of those things I kind of knew going in were very likely.

00:55:20 ◼   ► Both of those things proved to be correct.

00:55:22 ◼   ► If I lose the 5X lens, I'm going to have, you know, less reach.

00:55:27 ◼   ► But also, those pictures are bad.

00:55:30 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:55:33 ◼   ► If they make the Pro phones a lot better in those areas, maybe I would stick with the Pro

00:55:40 ◼   ► phone and just get whatever the orange rumored color is because, I don't know, it looks kind

00:55:45 ◼   ► of bronze to me.

00:55:46 ◼   ► Yeah, it's hard to tell.

00:55:47 ◼   ► The colors are hard to rumor see, right?

00:55:49 ◼   ► And by the way, the latest breaking, and I would say kind of shaky, not maybe that reliable

00:55:54 ◼   ► rumor is that the Pro Max will have like a zoom camera with a moving element with a moving

00:56:03 ◼   ► lens element inside it.

00:56:04 ◼   ► And I forget what the range was.

00:56:06 ◼   ► I think it was like 5X to 8X or something like an actual inside the camera, a periscope

00:56:11 ◼   ► lens where there's an actual optical element that moves from left to right or whatever to

00:56:15 ◼   ► change it.

00:56:15 ◼   ► And that would only be on the Pro Max.

00:56:17 ◼   ► But I'm having a hard time buying that, but we'll see.

00:56:19 ◼   ► That was like two days ago rumor.

00:56:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I think for me, the idea of the iPhone Air sounds really, really good.

00:56:26 ◼   ► And I'm going to be so in on it.

00:56:28 ◼   ► And then I'm going to see, oh, the camera system is way not as good.

00:56:32 ◼   ► And that'll be me noping right out of it.

00:56:35 ◼   ► That doesn't even sound good to me.

00:56:36 ◼   ► I don't want it.

00:56:38 ◼   ► The length and the width are more important.

00:56:39 ◼   ► Actually, that's true, too.

00:56:40 ◼   ► The size of the camera, like looking at it head on, is more important to me than the

00:56:45 ◼   ► thickness.

00:56:45 ◼   ► I do not want to sacrifice the battery life.

00:56:47 ◼   ► And I want all those cameras.

00:56:48 ◼   ► So I have no desire for the Air whatsoever.

00:56:51 ◼   ► But we'll see how many other people do because it's, you know, as Marco said, if you're dying

00:56:56 ◼   ► for a new phone form factor, we don't get those that often.

00:56:59 ◼   ► Presumably, we're going to get them in the next few years with the foldable phone and the

00:57:03 ◼   ► whatever 20th anniversary phone.

00:57:05 ◼   ► Like, there's going to be lots of new phone form factors.

00:57:08 ◼   ► And the Air is just the start of that.

00:57:10 ◼   ► So if you're dying to try something new, this is a good year to check it out.

00:57:13 ◼   ► But me, first, I'm not even getting a phone this year.

00:57:15 ◼   ► But I'm anyway, none of these new form factors appeal to me.

00:57:19 ◼   ► I still like the ProFone.

00:57:20 ◼   ► I think also one thing that might.

00:57:22 ◼   ► So for me, like, again, it isn't about the thinness of the Air for me, probably.

00:57:26 ◼   ► I think what I would notice the most about holding it would be the weight.

00:57:29 ◼   ► But we don't know what's going to happen to the weight of the ProFones either.

00:57:33 ◼   ► It fluctuates a lot year to year.

00:57:35 ◼   ► And didn't they say new material?

00:57:37 ◼   ► Yes.

00:57:38 ◼   ► What did they say this year?

00:57:39 ◼   ► Aluminum?

00:57:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:40 ◼   ► Well, it's not titanium anymore.

00:57:42 ◼   ► They're just using aluminum.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Yeah, which is great.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Aluminum's lighter.

00:57:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:46 ◼   ► I would imagine the weight on the Pros is not going to be that different.

00:57:48 ◼   ► I don't know what the rumors of that are, but I'm just guessing based on the size of

00:57:51 ◼   ► the thing that it's probably going to be very similar.

00:57:54 ◼   ► So aluminum cased phones typically are lighter than the titanium ones.

00:57:59 ◼   ► Also, aluminum tends to be lighter in this kind of use than glass.

00:58:04 ◼   ► The back of the ProFones is rumored to have less glass and more aluminum than it used to.

00:58:10 ◼   ► So there could actually be a decent weight savings.

00:58:14 ◼   ► Now, did they just spend that on more stuff in the phone?

00:58:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:18 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:58:18 ◼   ► Bigger battery.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Like, that's probably, they probably just spent the weight savings from the case materials

00:58:24 ◼   ► on guts of the phone, which, you know, for many phones or many configurations, that probably

00:58:30 ◼   ► is the right call.

00:58:31 ◼   ► Like, most people who use iPhones would love extra battery life.

00:58:35 ◼   ► So if they can, you know, shave a few grams off the case weight and then just make a slightly

00:58:40 ◼   ► bigger battery, that's probably the right move most of the time.

00:58:42 ◼   ► That was one of the rumors, by the way, when we were asking, like, what are they going to

00:58:45 ◼   ► do with that giant camera mesa that now spans the full width of the phone?

00:58:48 ◼   ► Like, what are they putting under there?

00:58:49 ◼   ► And the answer was that they're, one of the possible answers was, because we don't know

00:58:53 ◼   ► what the internet looks like exactly, was that they're able to slide more of the battery up

00:58:56 ◼   ► to where they couldn't before, because now the elements that would have been in the way

00:59:00 ◼   ► of the battery can basically live in the giant camera mesa.

00:59:03 ◼   ► So that would be a good use of that space.

00:59:05 ◼   ► Like, what are they wasting all the space for?

00:59:06 ◼   ► Other than making it so your phone is slightly less wobbly by having to go all the way across,

00:59:10 ◼   ► it'll still be wobbly because the lens is still poking out on one side and on the

00:59:13 ◼   ► other.

00:59:13 ◼   ► But anyway, they can use their, one theory is they use that case, use that space in the

00:59:18 ◼   ► case to extend the battery further up, which would be great.

00:59:20 ◼   ► Again, people love more battery life.

00:59:22 ◼   ► I would love more battery life, but more than anything else, I want better thermals.

00:59:26 ◼   ► And I know you're right, John, I know you're right, that the better thermals will be better,

00:59:30 ◼   ► but not enough better.

00:59:31 ◼   ► But yeah, like, if you think about it, it is a really difficult challenge with the sun beating

00:59:35 ◼   ► down on your phone to be able to control that with a phone that's like inside a case

00:59:41 ◼   ► in your hand, it's, it's difficult, but like maybe better screen technology, like maybe

00:59:45 ◼   ► OLED will help with that.

00:59:46 ◼   ► I'm not sure if that, maybe it'll make it worse.

00:59:48 ◼   ► Actually, I don't even know how, like dealing with the heat of, first of all, dealing with

00:59:52 ◼   ► the light of the direct sun, which means that your screen has to be on like maximum brightness,

00:59:55 ◼   ► which is terrible for heat.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:57 ◼   ► And then just dealing with the heat of the sun heating up your phone.

01:00:00 ◼   ► Like if you'll leave your phone, uh, strapped to the dashboard of your car and the sun is

01:00:04 ◼   ► beating down on it through the windshield of your car.

01:00:06 ◼   ► Like it's, it's a difficult challenge, but yeah, I'm Apple doing something in this area

01:00:11 ◼   ► with the vapor chamber cooling is a great step in the right direction.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Yeah, very much so.

01:00:15 ◼   ► So we've also got some other leaks, uh, speaking of things that we know nothing about, right,

01:00:21 ◼   ► Marco?

01:00:21 ◼   ► Uh, we've got some other leaks.

01:00:23 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:00:23 ◼   ► So this one, like the phone rumors are solid.

01:00:25 ◼   ► We've had the designs down to the millimeter.

01:00:26 ◼   ► This thing you're about to read is late breaking and people are still expressing some skepticism

01:00:32 ◼   ► about.

01:00:32 ◼   ► So keep that in mind as you listen to this.

01:00:34 ◼   ► All right.

01:00:35 ◼   ► So allegedly they're reading for Mac rumors.

01:00:38 ◼   ► Apple is designing new tech woven cases for the iPhone 17 with photos of some of the alleged

01:00:44 ◼   ► case colors shared by leaker, my Jin Boo.

01:00:46 ◼   ► Uh, they claim that the cases will include metallic buttons for improved tactile feedback,

01:00:51 ◼   ► a camera control button, MagSafe compatibility, and two small holes at the bottom for attaching

01:00:54 ◼   ► a crossbody strap or accessories.

01:00:56 ◼   ► The cases appear to be for the iPhone 17 pro models that are rumored to have a horizontal

01:01:01 ◼   ► camera bar given the size of the camera cutout.

01:01:03 ◼   ► But Boo says the tech woven cases will be available for all of the iPhone 17 models.

01:01:07 ◼   ► It is unclear as of yet if the cases are real, but we will find out in less than a month when

01:01:11 ◼   ► Apple unveils new iPhone 17 models.

01:01:13 ◼   ► Let me tell you, if these are fakes, they are incredible fakes.

01:01:16 ◼   ► They, they, they got me if these are fake.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:19 ◼   ► This is replacing fine woven, which was the, their terrible idea for a, uh, leather free, uh,

01:01:24 ◼   ► premium case that, uh, picked up stains and was not durable.

01:01:28 ◼   ► And I look at these cases, what do you think they're made out of from looking at these pictures?

01:01:32 ◼   ► Well, it, I'll tell you, it looks very similar to cases that already exist on the market that

01:01:38 ◼   ► have like fat, like one of the things, like the peak design ones.

01:01:41 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:01:41 ◼   ► I was going to say like the peak design, uh, phone cases have a like tech fabric on them.

01:01:48 ◼   ► That is great.

01:01:49 ◼   ► It's sturdy.

01:01:50 ◼   ► It looks good.

01:01:51 ◼   ► It feels good.

01:01:52 ◼   ► It has kind of like a weave it here.

01:01:54 ◼   ► I got one right here, right here.

01:01:55 ◼   ► Let me see.

01:01:55 ◼   ► I'll pull it up.

01:01:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:56 ◼   ► Like it, it's, it looks very similar, honestly.

01:02:00 ◼   ► Like the, I think the, the, um, peak design one has a bit, has a finer grain on the weave

01:02:05 ◼   ► compared to this.

01:02:06 ◼   ► It's like fine woven.

01:02:07 ◼   ► It is, it is finer woven.

01:02:11 ◼   ► Um, but you know, materials like that, like, you know, cloth based or fabric based materials

01:02:16 ◼   ► that are strong enough to be pretty decent phone cases do exist and they've been made

01:02:22 ◼   ► by other companies for a long time.

01:02:24 ◼   ► So I don't doubt that this could like, that this could exist.

01:02:28 ◼   ► Um, the only thing that gives me a little bit of pause on whether I think this is real

01:02:34 ◼   ► or not is in the side picture where it shows the buttons.

01:02:39 ◼   ► It's on a little off center.

01:02:41 ◼   ► They're not aligned.

01:02:42 ◼   ► They're a little like crooked on like, like the orange one, the green, like you, the buttons

01:02:47 ◼   ► are a little crooked and I've seen that on cheap cases.

01:02:51 ◼   ► I've seen that on Apple cases though, to be fair.

01:02:53 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

01:02:54 ◼   ► And presumably these aren't production ones, but yeah, like these do look very plausible

01:02:58 ◼   ► as third party cases.

01:02:59 ◼   ► They also look vaguely plausible as first party.

01:03:02 ◼   ► And I say that because we are in a post fine woven world.

01:03:05 ◼   ► I'm not sure I would have believed that Apple, I remember we, I think we had, we, we talked

01:03:09 ◼   ► about the fine woven rumor on the show with the same kind of like, uh, unsurety about it,

01:03:14 ◼   ► but not only did they nail it, they even got the name.

01:03:16 ◼   ► So, and again, this is not the same source of these rumors.

01:03:19 ◼   ► So I'm not giving them any more credence, but I, I having seen that Apple will ship something

01:03:24 ◼   ► like fine woven, I can't entirely dismiss these out of hand.

01:03:27 ◼   ► No, honestly, I think with the, with the exception of those crooked buttons, I think these look

01:03:32 ◼   ► very good and very plausible.

01:03:34 ◼   ► Uh, I don't know, you know, I don't know if they're real or not, but you know, a few things

01:03:38 ◼   ► jump out at me.

01:03:39 ◼   ► Like number one, like the rim that goes around the camera opening, that looks exactly like

01:03:44 ◼   ► some of the cases Apple has made recently.

01:03:46 ◼   ► Um, the colors are current fashionable colors in Apple's current style, the general design

01:03:54 ◼   ► of the case, the shape, how the fabric wraps around it.

01:03:57 ◼   ► It isn't like a plastic bumper around with fabric only in the back, like, like what Peak

01:04:01 ◼   ► Design does.

01:04:01 ◼   ► It's like the fabric wraps all around so the corners can wear away for you.

01:04:05 ◼   ► Um, you know, that's very Apple-like too.

01:04:08 ◼   ► The Apple logo placement makes sense.

01:04:11 ◼   ► It's probably, you know, matching the phone.

01:04:13 ◼   ► It's tastefully done here.

01:04:15 ◼   ► I think these are probably real.

01:04:18 ◼   ► Uh, and, and I think if they are real, it looks pretty good and they might actually be

01:04:24 ◼   ► pretty nice.

01:04:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:26 ◼   ► I mean, I, we'll see what happens, but, uh, if they've learned from their mistakes, which

01:04:31 ◼   ► one would hope Apple has, then this could show some real potential.

01:04:34 ◼   ► So I forget if the, I got to click through to the thing to see, do they show, I know where

01:04:38 ◼   ► they show it in the ones we're about to look at, but do they show the lanyard strap thing

01:04:41 ◼   ► in photos here?

01:04:41 ◼   ► No.

01:04:42 ◼   ► Uh, well, anyway, well, the rumor does say that they're supposed to have lanyard strap

01:04:46 ◼   ► things in the corner and so do the next cases we're going to look at here.

01:04:49 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:50 ◼   ► Uh, actually, no, I didn't click through to my Jin Boo's website.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Let me do that real quick.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:55 ◼   ► No, it doesn't look like it, but no, I don't see it.

01:04:57 ◼   ► All right.

01:04:58 ◼   ► Moving on, as John just alluded, there's also liquid silicone, which are the new silicone

01:05:03 ◼   ► cases again by my Jin Boo.

01:05:05 ◼   ► Uh, allegedly the liquid silicone cases have a soft surface velity finish with the potential

01:05:09 ◼   ► for two variants.

01:05:10 ◼   ► One with a liquid glass effect, providing an opaque and satin texture and one without this

01:05:14 ◼   ► effect.

01:05:15 ◼   ► It includes a rubber lanyard implemented as an integrated feature with the addition of multiple

01:05:19 ◼   ► dedicated holes for attachment.

01:05:21 ◼   ► So this one does show the little corner, like, you know, two little holes where you'd thread

01:05:25 ◼   ► something in and out.

01:05:26 ◼   ► And presumably that's connected to something more sturdy than just a piece of silicone because

01:05:30 ◼   ► Apple silicone case is always a shred.

01:05:32 ◼   ► So hopefully this is got a more sturdy frame in there.

01:05:35 ◼   ► Again, questionable origins on these rumors, but it does look very Apple-ish.

01:05:39 ◼   ► This is essentially just a silicone case.

01:05:41 ◼   ► I've been interested in this rumor.

01:05:43 ◼   ► It's been going around for like a couple of weeks now.

01:05:45 ◼   ► I'm interested in this rumor because of the word liquid being put into it as, you know,

01:05:49 ◼   ► presumably a tie-in with liquid glass.

01:05:50 ◼   ► I'm like, what is it that makes this silicone liquid silicone?

01:05:54 ◼   ► How is it not just a silicone case?

01:05:55 ◼   ► And the text of this, uh, summary does not give me any more information.

01:05:59 ◼   ► One with a liquid glass effect, providing an opaque and satin texture and one without the

01:06:04 ◼   ► effect.

01:06:04 ◼   ► What?

01:06:05 ◼   ► Like, is it see-through?

01:06:07 ◼   ► Like, is it partially see-through?

01:06:09 ◼   ► Does it have like swirling?

01:06:10 ◼   ► Is it like hyper color shirts where you like, you put your hands on it that changes color?

01:06:14 ◼   ► Like, I don't, you know, I'm, I'm interested to see if they're, if this brand, if assuming

01:06:18 ◼   ► these are real, do they try to brand the cases to match liquid glass by putting the word

01:06:24 ◼   ► liquid in and somehow making the silicone cases liquidier?

01:06:28 ◼   ► Anyway, these are all closed in the bottom cases.

01:06:29 ◼   ► So the only other interesting things about them is the idea of a lanyard strap, which,

01:06:32 ◼   ► um, do you remember, maybe you don't, uh, back in the day, the iPod touch had the little,

01:06:38 ◼   ► um, circle in the back bottom corner.

01:06:40 ◼   ► You'd press it in and it would pop up like a little toadstool and you could wrap a little

01:06:44 ◼   ► string around there and then put it.

01:06:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:47 ◼   ► The idea of attaching a string to your phone, I think is more plausible now than it has ever

01:06:51 ◼   ► been given the massive popularity of pop sockets and other things like that.

01:06:55 ◼   ► But I'm not entirely sure that that corner is going to hold up like again, especially Apple

01:07:01 ◼   ► silicone cases, which are, uh, notorious for, uh, breaking apart on re-entry after a few years

01:07:07 ◼   ► and just having pieces of them peel off.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Not sure.

01:07:09 ◼   ► I want to trust the corner of one of those cases to, uh, hold my phone, but we'll see.

01:07:14 ◼   ► These are two, uh, you know, setting aside all the things that, uh, have been massively leaked

01:07:18 ◼   ► these case rumors.

01:07:20 ◼   ► I'm always looking at a scance and going, it's plausible.

01:07:23 ◼   ► Like Marco said, it's plausible.

01:07:24 ◼   ► The pictures look plausible, but when it comes to cases, uh, you never know.

01:07:29 ◼   ► So in a post-fine war room world, I can't, uh, rule anything out.

01:07:32 ◼   ► Also, I, so, you know, whether they call it liquid silicone or not, I mean, that's,

01:07:38 ◼   ► it's kind of a weird name.

01:07:39 ◼   ► It is weird.

01:07:40 ◼   ► Why would it be liquid?

01:07:41 ◼   ► Typically, if you see liquid coming out of any kind of plastic material, that's a very

01:07:45 ◼   ► bad sign and you should throw it away.

01:07:47 ◼   ► You don't want it to be like wet.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Right, exactly, but, uh, but, you know, sure, Apple has funny names for things sometimes.

01:07:54 ◼   ► Um, what's interesting is that if this, you know, however it is worded, maybe in a weird

01:07:59 ◼   ► way through some translation, um, it sounds like they, they have maybe a new surface texture

01:08:06 ◼   ► or a new surface finish.

01:08:08 ◼   ► Maybe the silicone, maybe these new silicone cases are less pocket grippy.

01:08:14 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, hope springs eternal.

01:08:16 ◼   ► I don't think, but okay.

01:08:19 ◼   ► I mean, look, it's a stretch, I know, but they're saying it has like a new finish, a

01:08:23 ◼   ► new texture.

01:08:24 ◼   ► Maybe that's it, because that, that has always been the biggest downside of the silicone.

01:08:28 ◼   ► Like, the silicone cases are great in many other ways, but that, that grippiness going

01:08:33 ◼   ► in and out of pockets has always held them back from a lot of people.

01:08:36 ◼   ► Um, so look, it, this could be great.

01:08:39 ◼   ► Um, also, I think if the rumored or if the, you know, the pictures that accompany this rumor

01:08:44 ◼   ► are accurate, I think these colors look great.

01:08:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:47 ◼   ► I hope this is real.

01:08:49 ◼   ► You know, I, I am typically caseless these days, but the Apple silicone cases, if they

01:08:54 ◼   ► don't have that, you know, the, the major pocket friction problem are otherwise great.

01:08:59 ◼   ► So I'm, I'm kind of crossing my fingers in this one.

01:09:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:02 ◼   ► Silicon cases have usually come in pretty good colors.

01:09:03 ◼   ► The phones don't, but the silicone cases usually have one or two really good colors.

01:09:07 ◼   ► The difficulty with like the grippiness factor is obviously when it's in your hand, you want

01:09:11 ◼   ► it to be grippy.

01:09:12 ◼   ► When you're sliding into your pocket, you want it to not be grippy.

01:09:14 ◼   ► It's hard to find that correct middle ground.

01:09:16 ◼   ► If you go too slippery, I feel like it's, the case will get dinged more in the court of public

01:09:21 ◼   ► opinion than if you go too grippy.

01:09:23 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:23 ◼   ► So I think that's why they keep leaning in that direction.

01:09:26 ◼   ► I just wish they could make those cases not fall apart.

01:09:27 ◼   ► But anyway, I don't buy them because not because I don't like the feel like I actually do enjoy

01:09:32 ◼   ► silicon feel like leather better, but silicon, I don't mind, but they're all closed

01:09:36 ◼   ► in the bottom.

01:09:36 ◼   ► So I can't, they're, they're not to my preference.

01:09:38 ◼   ► I will say that the fine woven case, or sorry, tack woven cases, the colors are good, but

01:09:43 ◼   ► they're very, very muted.

01:09:44 ◼   ► Whereas as you guys have said, the silicon cases, I think are just genuinely good colors.

01:09:49 ◼   ► So we'll see what happens, but I don't know.

01:09:52 ◼   ► I don't know what I'm going to do this year since I've gone through like 94 screen protectors.

01:09:56 ◼   ► I don't know if having a case would potentially improve that.

01:10:00 ◼   ► I think you should have a case.

01:10:02 ◼   ► People have been sending, by the way, saying, Hey, those screen protectors are not meant to

01:10:05 ◼   ► be hit from like the edge.

01:10:06 ◼   ► So they're meant to be used with a case and that would save you from shattering them.

01:10:10 ◼   ► So maybe you should try that.

01:10:11 ◼   ► Yeah, but I don't want a case.

01:10:12 ◼   ► Like I know, I know I should have one.

01:10:15 ◼   ► How about you just don't want a screen protector then and just deal with the scratches on your

01:10:18 ◼   ► screen that you're going to inevitably put there?

01:10:19 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:10:22 ◼   ► All right.

01:10:22 ◼   ► With regard to the iPhone 17 or no, excuse me, 18.

01:10:27 ◼   ► Is that right?

01:10:28 ◼   ► Actually?

01:10:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess it is right.

01:10:29 ◼   ► I didn't even realize we were talking about 18.

01:10:31 ◼   ► The iPhone 17 is old news, Casey.

01:10:32 ◼   ► My bad.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Yeah, because we know everything there is to know, right, John?

01:10:34 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:10:35 ◼   ► All right.

01:10:36 ◼   ► So with regard to the 18, reading from Mac rumors, an established Chinese leaker has pushed

01:10:41 ◼   ► back against recent rumors suggesting that Apple plans to eliminate the camera control

01:10:44 ◼   ► button from the iPhone 18, instead claiming the company is working to simplify the component

01:10:48 ◼   ► to reduce costs.

01:10:49 ◼   ► According to Weibo leaker Instant Digital, the camera controls pressure sensitive modules for

01:10:54 ◼   ► the iPhone 18 series currently remain in trial production.

01:10:56 ◼   ► However, Apple is reportedly removing the capacitive sensor from the current dual sensor design

01:11:00 ◼   ► and opting instead to rely solely on pressure sensing to achieve all button functions.

01:11:04 ◼   ► Instant Digital says Apple's revised approach is similar to designs found in devices like

01:11:08 ◼   ► the Oppo X8 Ultra and Vivo X200 Ultra, where pressure sensors alone can recognize light taps,

01:11:13 ◼   ► firm presses, and sliding gestures.

01:11:15 ◼   ► The leaker suggests cost concerns are driving the change, noting that the current solution

01:11:19 ◼   ► is genuinely very expensive for Apple and is generating costly after-sales repairs.

01:11:24 ◼   ► Yeah, so I mean, this rumor is a rumor by extension of saying camera control essentially unchanged

01:11:31 ◼   ► in the 17s, but in the 18s, things might be looking to cheap out.

01:11:35 ◼   ► I guess, well, this probably would have been better for next week for exit

01:11:38 ◼   ► interview for the 16, I'm not sure we'll all have more to say about the camera control,

01:11:41 ◼   ► but it's interesting to know that they are thinking about cutting costs there while still

01:11:47 ◼   ► putting it on the 16s and apparently the 17s, and they still want it on the 18s, just if

01:11:51 ◼   ► it could be a little bit cheaper, please.

01:11:52 ◼   ► Well, and I mean, that is one way to look at it, you know, the kind of, you know, cynical

01:11:56 ◼   ► like, you know, expense angle.

01:11:59 ◼   ► But the way I would look at it is the camera control is way too complicated.

01:12:02 ◼   ► Like, the moment it was released, we all said, this is way too complicated and fiddly and

01:12:07 ◼   ► like, it is kind of remarkable that it shipped the way it did when that seemed to be pretty

01:12:13 ◼   ► common feedback.

01:12:14 ◼   ► And it's shipping again on the 17s.

01:12:16 ◼   ► Well, yeah, because they, you know, they don't change things that quickly with the iPhone.

01:12:18 ◼   ► But, you know, if they took the feedback last fall to say, hmm, people are, people don't

01:12:24 ◼   ► really need all this complexity.

01:12:25 ◼   ► And what really serves most of the value here is just making it a button.

01:12:29 ◼   ► What it sounds like they're doing is basically making it a button.

01:12:33 ◼   ► But it's still with all the same functionality.

01:12:35 ◼   ► The rumor is it will still do all the things that just, they can eliminate one kind of sensor.

01:12:39 ◼   ► They used to have pressure sensor and capacitive.

01:12:41 ◼   ► They said, we think we can keep all the same functionality, but just have pressure sensitive

01:12:46 ◼   ► and not have capacitive.

01:12:47 ◼   ► I mean, but what, aren't there like, don't you like press a little bit and like swipe

01:12:51 ◼   ► back and forth?

01:12:52 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:12:53 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:12:53 ◼   ► That's, that's exactly what the, it's a rumor, but the rumor claims that they can maintain

01:12:58 ◼   ► all the same functionality with just pressure sensors because, and they're, they give comparisons

01:13:02 ◼   ► to these phones that are not familiar with the Oppo X8 Ultra and the Vivo X200 Ultra that

01:13:07 ◼   ► do similar things.

01:13:08 ◼   ► But maybe, you know, maybe not.

01:13:09 ◼   ► So they say they support sliding gestures with just pressure.

01:13:12 ◼   ► So I, again, I don't see how that could be possible, especially when you have a case over

01:13:15 ◼   ► it where like the current cases, like the one I have now is like sort of capacitive conductance.

01:13:21 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:13:21 ◼   ► Like it knows when I'm touching it because I'm touching the case and the case is touching

01:13:24 ◼   ► the button or whatever, but you know, it's a rumor.

01:13:27 ◼   ► So we'll see how this turns out.

01:13:28 ◼   ► This iPhone 18, not this year, next year.

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01:15:31 ◼   ► Okay, let's do some Ask ATP, especially since we may or may not have time for it next week.

01:15:35 ◼   ► Phil Hurst writes, what are the key differences between snapshots and backups?

01:15:38 ◼   ► Can you rely on snapshots as backups for or for retaining versions and recovery of files, but

01:15:44 ◼   ► obviously not as a backup against drive failure as it's usually on the same drive?

01:15:47 ◼   ► Follow-up, do snapshots change following the application of hyperspace to a disk?

01:15:52 ◼   ► So snapshot is definitely not a backup.

01:15:55 ◼   ► It is just sort of a retaining of a past state of your drive on your drive.

01:15:59 ◼   ► And even if macOS offers a way to manually create snapshots and then make sure that those snapshots

01:16:06 ◼   ► are never deleted, which I'm not sure whether it does or not, but even if it did, I would

01:16:10 ◼   ► not trust that as a backup because as Phil noted, backups are for when you have a problem

01:16:16 ◼   ► where you lose all your data, you can get it back.

01:16:18 ◼   ► And one of those problems might be the failure of the volume that your data is on.

01:16:22 ◼   ► Snapshots are on the same volume.

01:16:24 ◼   ► So it is, you know, don't make backups on the same, putting them on the same drive mechanism

01:16:29 ◼   ► is bad.

01:16:29 ◼   ► Putting them on the same volume on the same drive mechanism is also bad.

01:16:33 ◼   ► So yeah, not an ideal strategy.

01:16:35 ◼   ► That said, I think in most normal people's encountering of snapshots, they were all temporary

01:16:41 ◼   ► and maybe purged by the system at any time.

01:16:42 ◼   ► So it's even less of a backup if you're not finding a way to manually create and preserve

01:16:46 ◼   ► them forever.

01:16:47 ◼   ► And then finally, you wouldn't want to manually create and preserve them for any period of

01:16:51 ◼   ► time of backups because you're just hogging space on your main drive.

01:16:53 ◼   ► You know, essentially it's like having your backups on your drive.

01:16:56 ◼   ► Now it's not the same thing as doing a complete backup because obviously all the parts that

01:16:59 ◼   ► are in common, you'd only pay for once.

01:17:01 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah, don't, don't use snapshots as a backup.

01:17:04 ◼   ► Snapshots are important to making backups.

01:17:06 ◼   ► For example, Time Machine takes a snapshot and then backs up that snapshot.

01:17:10 ◼   ► So it has a internally consistent point in time snapshot of the whole disk instead of having

01:17:15 ◼   ► to start copying and then by the time it gets to the end of the copy, the disk is changed.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Right.

01:17:19 ◼   ► So they're good and they're a good important part of Time Machine, but they're not the same

01:17:22 ◼   ► thing as backups.

01:17:23 ◼   ► And as for do snapshots change following the application of hyperspace?

01:17:27 ◼   ► They have nothing to do with each other.

01:17:29 ◼   ► Anything you do to your disk, whether it's using hyperspace to save space, which is my app for

01:17:36 ◼   ► saving space on your drive without having to delete any files.

01:17:39 ◼   ► It's pretty cool.

01:17:40 ◼   ► Or if you're just doing work, I'm making some files, I'm moving the files around, I'm renaming

01:17:45 ◼   ► things, I'm deleting things.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Anything you do your disk, that's also not changing any of your snapshots.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Snapshots are frozen in a point in time.

01:17:52 ◼   ► But later, when there is a snapshot, that snapshot will look different than it would

01:17:56 ◼   ► have had you not made those changes.

01:17:58 ◼   ► That's true of any changes.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Running hyperspace, writing files, reading files, deleting files, anything you did to

01:18:03 ◼   ► your disk, when you take a future snapshot, will reflect the current state of your disk.

01:18:07 ◼   ► And yes, hyperspace does change the current state of your disk.

01:18:10 ◼   ► So there you go.

01:18:11 ◼   ► All right.

01:18:12 ◼   ► Good deal.

01:18:13 ◼   ► Did we get through that entire thing without you saying file system once?

01:18:15 ◼   ► Yes, we did.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Wow.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Can you say it for me?

01:18:17 ◼   ► No.

01:18:20 ◼   ► My voice is my passport.

01:18:21 ◼   ► I can't believe I didn't say it either, but you know, there you go.

01:18:24 ◼   ► You know what I've always loved to hear you say?

01:18:25 ◼   ► File system and passport.

01:18:28 ◼   ► File system and passport.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Now Marco can get these jokes.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:18:30 ◼   ► Hooray!

01:18:31 ◼   ► All right.

01:18:32 ◼   ► Dan writes, why does the modern Finder take a thousand years to move, copy, or delete batches

01:18:37 ◼   ► of thousands of files?

01:18:38 ◼   ► It didn't used to be this way.

01:18:39 ◼   ► I've had an empty trash Finder progress window open for about 20 minutes to delete several terabytes

01:18:44 ◼   ► of local data.

01:18:45 ◼   ► And it's only up to 748 out of thousands of files.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Even moving files to a different directory takes so long these days that I often skip

01:18:52 ◼   ► to the command line to speed things up.

01:18:53 ◼   ► I'm afraid to delete so much data at the command line, though, on modern macOS because it might

01:18:57 ◼   ► complicate its known inability to tell how much free space is available.

01:19:00 ◼   ► What do you do, John?

01:19:01 ◼   ► So the first thing I'm going to say to Dan is do not worry about doing it from the command

01:19:04 ◼   ► line.

01:19:04 ◼   ► It will not complicate macOS' ability to know how much free space is available.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Like, it won't make it any better, but it also won't make it any worse.

01:19:12 ◼   ► So do not be afraid of doing stuff from the command line other than just, you know, fat

01:19:15 ◼   ► fingering it and screwing yourself up.

01:19:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:16 ◼   ► Either way, it has no idea how much free space you have.

01:19:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:19 ◼   ► Like, it's not helping.

01:19:20 ◼   ► It's not hurting.

01:19:20 ◼   ► It is what it is.

01:19:21 ◼   ► And as we've discussed in past shows, it's not like this is some kind of bug or there's

01:19:24 ◼   ► some easy solution that Apple needs to implement.

01:19:26 ◼   ► It's just complicated.

01:19:27 ◼   ► It's just because of snapshots and all that stuff, it's just complicated to express the

01:19:32 ◼   ► actual state of things to people in a way that makes sense.

01:19:35 ◼   ► It was much simpler when the disk was just like, you know, you have X amount of space

01:19:38 ◼   ► and Y amount of stuff and you could add and subtract and it all made sense.

01:19:41 ◼   ► That's not the world we live in.

01:19:42 ◼   ► This world is better in most ways, but in that one way, it is more difficult to know how much

01:19:48 ◼   ► free space you have.

01:19:48 ◼   ► So, oh, well, anyway, I put this item in here.

01:19:52 ◼   ► I think this came in today, which is a rarity because most of these things in ASCII to be

01:19:55 ◼   ► here for months or weeks or whatever, because I just encountered this problem today.

01:20:00 ◼   ► And when I saw what I thought, I didn't quite understand what was going on.

01:20:04 ◼   ► I'm like, yeah, it's probably just me.

01:20:06 ◼   ► Who knows?

01:20:06 ◼   ► Whatever.

01:20:07 ◼   ► But then Dan wrote it and I'm like, no, I'm going to have to file this one because I feel

01:20:09 ◼   ► like this might be well, I should test it in Tahoe first.

01:20:11 ◼   ► Honestly, this might be another like too many windows type thing.

01:20:15 ◼   ► So what Dan is talking about, and I think everyone here has noticed, especially like developers.

01:20:19 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, the new Xcode beta came out.

01:20:21 ◼   ► So you throw out the old Xcode beta and put in the new one and then you go to empty trash.

01:20:25 ◼   ► And it's like emptying trash and starts counting up files.

01:20:29 ◼   ► Thousand, two thousand, three thousand, ten thousand.

01:20:31 ◼   ► It's like preparing to empty trash to buy.

01:20:33 ◼   ► There's a lot of files in these trash because, of course, the Xcode beta.app is filled with

01:20:37 ◼   ► just thousands and thousands of files.

01:20:39 ◼   ► So it counts up, it counts up, it counts up.

01:20:41 ◼   ► Then it goes, OK, now I'm deleting them.

01:20:43 ◼   ► And you see this progress bar and it's like moving along real slow.

01:20:47 ◼   ► Like the full progress bar is like 90,000 files or something.

01:20:50 ◼   ► That's like 100, 150, 157.

01:20:53 ◼   ► You're like, oh, my God.

01:20:54 ◼   ► Why is this taking so long?

01:20:56 ◼   ► Which is why it's been my habit to, you know, command backspace the old Xcode into the trash

01:21:02 ◼   ► and then go to the terminal and do RM minus RF very carefully on the, you know, tilde slash dot trash directory,

01:21:08 ◼   ► and it deletes it so much faster.

01:21:11 ◼   ► RM deletes the Xcode from the trash so much faster than anything trash does.

01:21:15 ◼   ► It's not even funny.

01:21:16 ◼   ► I've been doing this for years, but fine, whatever.

01:21:17 ◼   ► That's a known issue.

01:21:19 ◼   ► Today, what I was doing was refreshing my folder full of favorite images that I use for this Apple screensaver.

01:21:26 ◼   ► Apple screensaver, Apple's photo screensaver has the ability to say, hey, we'll show like an album of photos from your photos library

01:21:33 ◼   ► and one of our like floating photos screensavers things.

01:21:37 ◼   ► I'm like, great.

01:21:38 ◼   ► Could you use my favorites collection in photos?

01:21:41 ◼   ► And it says, ha, ha, ha.

01:21:42 ◼   ► You have too many photos.

01:21:43 ◼   ► I give up.

01:21:43 ◼   ► So I'm like, OK, because it just it can't handle.

01:21:48 ◼   ► I have 200,000 photos, which I and I have maybe 20,000 favorites and it just doesn't work.

01:21:54 ◼   ► So what I do is I export from Apple photos apps, like not full size, but the quote unquote large size, like used to be JPEG, but now he compressed images into a folder, just a plain folder on my desk called favorites.

01:22:09 ◼   ► It's in user shared photos favorites.

01:22:11 ◼   ► And I export all 20,000 photos at a slightly smaller size because they're just going to be shown on the screensaver and the little floating image thing.

01:22:17 ◼   ► They're going to be shrunk anyway.

01:22:18 ◼   ► And then I point the photo screensaver at that folder and I say, forget about the photo library.

01:22:23 ◼   ► You can't handle it.

01:22:23 ◼   ► It's too much for you.

01:22:24 ◼   ► Just use the photos that are in that folder.

01:22:27 ◼   ► But what it means is periodically I have to go and say, OK, last time I exported my favorites, it was this such and such a date.

01:22:33 ◼   ► Now I need to select all the favorites from that date on and export those and add them to the folder.

01:22:38 ◼   ► So I was doing that today.

01:22:40 ◼   ► I exported 1,900 new favorites for the folder and I exported them into a folder on my desktop.

01:22:45 ◼   ► It took a while for photos, but it's got, you know, it's compressing a bunch of RAWs into Heek or whatever, like fine.

01:22:51 ◼   ► It fills the folder with 1,900 new photos.

01:22:54 ◼   ► There are about a few hundred K each compressed, right?

01:22:58 ◼   ► And then I'm like, OK, I got to copy this over to my wife's computer because I have the same setup over there.

01:23:05 ◼   ► And so I mount her thing on the desktop and I drag the folder over there and it's like copying, you know, 1,900 files.

01:23:12 ◼   ► And it was going so slow.

01:23:14 ◼   ► It was like one, two.

01:23:18 ◼   ► I'm like, how many hours is 1,900 seconds?

01:23:21 ◼   ► Because it seemed like they're going about one in a second.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Like, it was like, what is going on here?

01:23:26 ◼   ► What could it possibly be doing?

01:23:27 ◼   ► I, it was still saying estimating time remaining.

01:23:30 ◼   ► It never gave me a count, but I feel like it would have been way too long.

01:23:34 ◼   ► And I left the room, like, I'll probably be done by the time I go do something.

01:23:37 ◼   ► I came back in and it had progressed like 9% of the way through the progress where I'm like, oh, F this.

01:23:43 ◼   ► I hit the little X thing and waited.

01:23:45 ◼   ► It takes forever to stop too.

01:23:46 ◼   ► And it just did rsync, like three seconds.

01:23:49 ◼   ► It was like three seconds, which was like, I thought I had typed the command wrong because I just like rsync, blah, blah, blah, blah, return.

01:23:56 ◼   ► It was like return.

01:23:57 ◼   ► Oh, it's on an empty line up.

01:23:58 ◼   ► There's my prompt again.

01:23:58 ◼   ► I'm like, wait, maybe I typed it wrong.

01:23:59 ◼   ► Nope.

01:24:00 ◼   ► It copied them all.

01:24:01 ◼   ► It was only like a gig of data.

01:24:04 ◼   ► It was so fast.

01:24:06 ◼   ► So I think there's something terribly, terribly wrong with the finder when it comes to multi-file operations.

01:24:11 ◼   ► Some things like duplicating huge files are instant because of the magic of space-saving clones and APFS.

01:24:16 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:24:20 ◼   ► But like, what is the finder doing?

01:24:23 ◼   ► It has always been slow and pre-flying, but I have never seen this kind of slowness.

01:24:27 ◼   ► This is the kind of slowness that like makes me give up and not do it.

01:24:31 ◼   ► Like the speed comparison of emptying the trash with Xcode in it versus RM minus RF-ing the trash with Xcode in it.

01:24:37 ◼   ► That's always been pretty extreme, but both of them get done eventually.

01:24:41 ◼   ► But copying less than 2,000 files from one Mac to another in the same room in the house connected by gigabit Ethernet should never take this long.

01:24:48 ◼   ► As evidenced by me doing rsync.

01:24:50 ◼   ► And no, it wasn't doing an rsync where it was like, oh, maybe you already had all the files there, so it didn't have to copy.

01:24:54 ◼   ► No, it was rsyncing them into a new empty folder on your desktop.

01:24:56 ◼   ► It copied all those files nearly instantly from the command line, and I think it was going to take like 30 minutes to an hour by my estimates.

01:25:04 ◼   ► I have no idea what it was doing.

01:25:05 ◼   ► Dan, thank you for putting this bee in my butt.

01:25:08 ◼   ► If this still happens in Tahoe, I'm going to have to file another one of my you've broken macOS by not accounting for people who have lots of stuff.

01:25:16 ◼   ► Wow, that was a journey I was not expecting.

01:25:18 ◼   ► I wasn't expecting it until today either.

01:25:21 ◼   ► Sam Hunt writes, how do you think the rise of AI will affect Apple's 2030 goal to make all Apple products carbon neutral?

01:25:27 ◼   ► It seems to me that AI will use a lot more power over the lifetime of an Apple device, especially with many tasks being on device.

01:25:33 ◼   ► You know, this is a great point, and maybe there's an obvious answer to this that I'm not seeing.

01:25:37 ◼   ► But I will say that one of the advantages of Apple being so all in on Apple Silicon is that it is considerably more efficient than most of its peers, like power efficient.

01:25:47 ◼   ► And that means it's sometimes in some ways slower, but it's also the power use is comparatively quite a bit less, and that is working in their favor.

01:25:57 ◼   ► But I don't have a good answer for this.

01:25:59 ◼   ► And maybe they just say, oopsie doopsies, we're not going to be carbon neutral after all.

01:26:02 ◼   ► Or maybe they'll just buy a million of those offsets, which I think we've all decided are kind of BS.

01:26:06 ◼   ► Is that right?

01:26:07 ◼   ► I mean, they're not BS, but they're like there's there's qualities of carbon offsets of how much how much BS are they legitimate or are they totally BS or there's somebody in between.

01:26:17 ◼   ► But yeah, like I just I don't think they're going to give up on 2030 goal.

01:26:22 ◼   ► They seem pretty committed to it.

01:26:23 ◼   ► AI is not going to help.

01:26:25 ◼   ► Let's put it that way.

01:26:26 ◼   ► It's going to make their life a lot harder.

01:26:29 ◼   ► I think when they came up with this 2030 plan, they didn't expect AI to be what it is now.

01:26:34 ◼   ► Remember, they're running stuff server side with their private cloud compute.

01:26:37 ◼   ► I don't know if they're accounting for that as part of their stuff.

01:26:41 ◼   ► But as you noted, Casey, they're also running lots of stuff on device and that's using more of people's energy as well.

01:26:46 ◼   ► Maybe if they just put bigger batteries in, I don't like I think it's got to hurt them.

01:26:52 ◼   ► And I haven't heard them address it directly, but it seems like this 2030 thing is just like it's really important to the company and they're just going to make it happen no matter what, including, as you noted, Casey, perhaps buying even more slightly more shady carbon offsets to claim victory.

01:27:08 ◼   ► And there's a story maybe we'll get to in some future episode about I think it's Germany saying that Apple can't call its devices carbon neutral anymore for reasons that are not yet specified.

01:27:16 ◼   ► But carbon neutrality is difficult to measure and AI is not helping.

01:27:21 ◼   ► And on the topic of AI and being and using a lot of energy, there's lots of stuff going around about, you know, how much energy uses, how much like water it uses, what the environmental impact of all these things, so on and so forth.

01:27:34 ◼   ► The reason I am much more chill about this than I am about Bitcoin, which I think, you know, is a complete waste of energy and resources, is that despite AI using tons of resources, it does do some useful things.

01:27:51 ◼   ► And I tried to choose those words carefully, like, I think Bitcoin does pretty much no useful things except for crime.

01:27:59 ◼   ► But again, I don't think that's something that people should be there.

01:28:02 ◼   ► Oh, man, we're going to get so much email.

01:28:04 ◼   ► You're not wrong, but we're going to get so much email.

01:28:06 ◼   ► How about email us on the blockchain?

01:28:07 ◼   ► Yeah, email us on the blockchain.

01:28:09 ◼   ► Yeah, we'll definitely see it.

01:28:10 ◼   ► Perfect.

01:28:10 ◼   ► AI does some useful things.

01:28:13 ◼   ► And so we expend energy all the time on things that we find useful, heating and cooling our homes, all of the data centers that make up the quote unquote cloud.

01:28:25 ◼   ► When we use websites, where are those websites that are running somewhere in a data center that requires cooling and water and so on and so forth.

01:28:31 ◼   ► And yes, I get the argument that, OK, well, but AI uses two orders of magnitude more energy per unit time spent by a human.

01:28:39 ◼   ► But if it does something useful, historically, we as humans have said, if we're if we're getting use out of something, if there is utility in it, we will continue to refine it and enhance it.

01:28:51 ◼   ► And we will.

01:28:52 ◼   ► It is essentially worth the energy.

01:28:54 ◼   ► Now, it would be great if we could have had in general better ways to make energy with less carbon pollution, more renewable energy, more solar, so on and so forth, like fusion energy someday when we're all dead.

01:29:05 ◼   ► Like we're always doing that.

01:29:08 ◼   ► But like what I want to see is the the energy use, the ways we're finding to generate energy should be put towards things that are useful to humanity.

01:29:16 ◼   ► And obviously, this AI stuff, people argue it's not useful enough to be worth the cost, but I think there's enough useful things in it that we should find a way to expand our energy budget to encompass that in the same way that we have expanded our energy budget to encompass the massive amount of data centers that did not exist before the dawning of the Internet and popular culture that do exist now and take huge amounts of energy because we all find the utility of the Internet is worth it.

01:29:45 ◼   ► And while we're spending energy there, one would hope that we're taking energy away from other areas like, you know, electric cars or LED light bulbs or more solar.

01:29:55 ◼   ► And like it was a couple of news stories last summer is like on certain days during the summer, the entirety of California was powered by like renewable energy.

01:30:03 ◼   ► Or if you look at the explosion of solar in China, right?

01:30:06 ◼   ► Those, you know, we were talking about before using like spending the weight gains on giving more battery.

01:30:13 ◼   ► We should be making gains in energy generation everywhere, despite our current government trying to stop that as hard as they possibly can because it's filled with idiots.

01:30:21 ◼   ► And we should be spending those gains on new useful things that we otherwise would not be able to do because we use energy.

01:30:27 ◼   ► Now, none of this helps Apple with the 2030 goals, to be clear, because their whole thing is carbon neutral within the realm of one device.

01:30:32 ◼   ► They're not looking at the whole globe.

01:30:34 ◼   ► So they've got their work cut out for them.

01:30:35 ◼   ► But my stance on AI and energy use is if it's a use, if it's doing useful things for us, we should find a way to power it.

01:30:44 ◼   ► If it's not doing anything useful, except for allowing people to commit crimes, then maybe we should not allow it.

01:30:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I think also, you know, AI is a new way for devices to use a bunch of processing power to try to be smart for us.

01:31:00 ◼   ► This is not the first way we've done this.

01:31:04 ◼   ► It's just the most recent and maybe most intensive.

01:31:07 ◼   ► But even before these new AI, you know, tools that Apple's building into their software to run locally, even before all that, we were using ML.

01:31:16 ◼   ► We were using machine learning.

01:31:17 ◼   ► We were using, you know, other forms of heavy computation to analyze stuff on your phone to do things for you to try to be smart.

01:31:26 ◼   ► Don't forget the GUI.

01:31:27 ◼   ► When the GUI was introduced, you're like, you're using all your computing power to show pretty pictures.

01:31:32 ◼   ► What a waste.

01:31:33 ◼   ► And again, it wasn't at the same scale as AI.

01:31:36 ◼   ► I get that.

01:31:36 ◼   ► It's a significant difference in scale.

01:31:39 ◼   ► I totally get that.

01:31:40 ◼   ► But the GUI was slammed for exactly the same.

01:31:43 ◼   ► And it's true.

01:31:43 ◼   ► How much of the computing power in the original Macintosh is dedicated to the GUI versus, quote unquote, doing actual stuff?

01:31:48 ◼   ► It's like 90% power in the GUI.

01:31:51 ◼   ► We got several of these emails, too, about liquid glass, which on the one side, I'm like, come on.

01:31:55 ◼   ► But on the other side, well...

01:31:57 ◼   ► It doesn't help.

01:31:58 ◼   ► Yeah, when you're talking about something on the scale of the iPhone, everything matters.

01:32:03 ◼   ► You're talking about like, all right, try to offset the energy use or try to provide it via renewable means for billions of devices out there.

01:32:11 ◼   ► Yeah, that's going to be hard.

01:32:13 ◼   ► That's not a small problem.

01:32:16 ◼   ► And every little bit helps.

01:32:17 ◼   ► Even something like, you know, using plug-in wire charging instead of wireless charging because it's more efficient.

01:32:23 ◼   ► Like, that can help a ton, too.

01:32:25 ◼   ► There's all sorts of things like that that can help.

01:32:28 ◼   ► Having every new iPhone, despite being migrated over from an old iPhone, reset the screen dimming behavior.

01:32:36 ◼   ► So it dims like four seconds after you stop touching it every single time you change phones.

01:32:42 ◼   ► Like, that's not an accident.

01:32:44 ◼   ► Apple does that because it helps them in various ways.

01:32:47 ◼   ► It probably helps their, you know, their green initiative.

01:32:50 ◼   ► It definitely helps the perception of the battery life of their phones.

01:32:53 ◼   ► So it helps them in lots of ways.

01:32:55 ◼   ► And I guarantee you that's why that's always been the case.

01:32:57 ◼   ► Everything matters.

01:32:58 ◼   ► But where AI is starting from is not the phone was sitting around doing nothing.

01:33:04 ◼   ► They've already accounted for the phone having background processing for things like photo indexing and, you know, deciding when to run certain tasks and analyzing the power use.

01:33:16 ◼   ► Like, there's already been lots of those background tasks on phones.

01:33:19 ◼   ► So I don't think having AI used, honestly, reasonably sparingly for not that many features, I don't think that's going to be massively different from any other, you know, new feature, new application.

01:33:34 ◼   ► application they've added to the phones over time.

01:33:36 ◼   ► It might be.

01:33:37 ◼   ► I could be wrong.

01:33:38 ◼   ► But, again, they're not coming from nothing here.

01:33:40 ◼   ► So it's not like they all of a sudden have to offset, like, everything.

01:33:43 ◼   ► I think you're right about on device.

01:33:45 ◼   ► Like, the easy way to think about this on device is, look, the batteries in our phone are not getting astronomically larger.

01:33:51 ◼   ► So it's pretty clear that the additional battery drain from Apple intelligence stuff is not that big.

01:33:58 ◼   ► Because if it was, our battery life would be destroyed.

01:34:00 ◼   ► Because the battery size increase that came along with the advantage of Apple intelligence was not significant.

01:34:06 ◼   ► And yet we're all using our phones with Apple intelligence on it, and it's not that bad.

01:34:10 ◼   ► It could get worse in the future, but, like, they're going to be limited by how much energy can you put in a battery on a phone.

01:34:15 ◼   ► And until there's some kind of breakthrough, there's not going to be this huge difference.

01:34:19 ◼   ► Now, the server side is where there's the biggest problem.

01:34:21 ◼   ► This is what most people are complaining about, to be fair.

01:34:23 ◼   ► Because in a data center, you want higher utilization.

01:34:27 ◼   ► Like, you don't want things sitting idle.

01:34:29 ◼   ► If you have some server that's running AI stuff in a data center, in general, you want that hardware to be optimally utilized, as in whatever, like, 80% usage or whatever you think is the sweet spot between, like, heat generation and whatever.

01:34:41 ◼   ► You don't want it to be idle, okay?

01:34:44 ◼   ► Because it is true that doing anything in AI can take orders of magnitude more power than doing the same thing non-AI.

01:34:52 ◼   ► So, for example, doing a Google search in the pre-AI days versus doing anything with ChatGPT.

01:34:58 ◼   ► Both things may respond to you within a second, right?

01:35:01 ◼   ► But you spent 10, 100, 1,000 times more energy doing the ChatGPT answer than you did doing the Google query.

01:35:10 ◼   ► So, if you spread that across an entire data center that used to be doing simple, you know, simple queries, doing, like, something for iCloud Drive or something that doesn't require a lot of computation, and you have an equally sized data center that is now doing AI stuff at orders of magnitude more energy, that's where you start to see all these horror stories about, like, look how much more energy he's using or whatever.

01:35:31 ◼   ► But, like, it's concentrated in one place.

01:35:35 ◼   ► On-device is not going to be like that, again, unless we have some kind of breakthrough in battery power, because it just can't be.

01:35:40 ◼   ► You can't use 10, 100, or 1,000 times more energy from your phone.

01:35:43 ◼   ► The battery will last, you know, an hour, and the phone will not be satisfactory.

01:35:48 ◼   ► So, I wouldn't worry about on-device in terms of, like, we're destroying the environment, although, see Marco's thing of, like, yeah, but every little bit multiplied by a billion does add up.

01:35:57 ◼   ► But it is a problem for Apple for their 2030 goals, but I don't think it's a problem for humanity.

01:36:00 ◼   ► The data centers may be a problem for humanity, but, again, see previous week where we were talking about ChatTPD5 and OpenAI suddenly getting kind of interested in being able to do inference more cost-effectively, because all that energy costs money, you know?

01:36:14 ◼   ► And so, I feel like we're burning a lot of energy on the early days of AI, and hopefully we will get better at this.

01:36:20 ◼   ► We will get better at doing AI at about the same speed as we use more and more energy with AI.

01:36:26 ◼   ► So, you know, I'm pretty optimistic about the energy use impact of AI, as provided we continue on our current accelerating path towards less carbon generation from creating electricity, which, again, our country is fighting against because we're bad, but the rest of the world is marching forward on.

01:36:46 ◼   ► And hopefully we won't be bad forever.

01:36:48 ◼   ► Yes.

01:36:49 ◼   ► All right.

01:36:49 ◼   ► Thank you to our sponsors this week, Delete.me and Sentry.

01:36:54 ◼   ► And thanks to our members who support us directly.

01:36:56 ◼   ► You can join us at atp.fm slash join.

01:36:59 ◼   ► One of the many perks of ATP membership is ATP Overtime, our weekly bonus topic.

01:37:05 ◼   ► This week on Overtime, we're going to be talking about a rumored five-year roadmap for Apple's Vision and smart glasses products.

01:37:13 ◼   ► So, this could be really interesting.

01:37:14 ◼   ► You can hear that and more by joining atp.fm slash join.

01:37:19 ◼   ► Thank you, everybody.

01:37:19 ◼   ► We'll talk to you next week.

01:37:21 ◼   ► Now the show is over.

01:37:26 ◼   ► They didn't even mean to begin.

01:37:28 ◼   ► Because it was accidental.

01:37:30 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:37:32 ◼   ► Oh, it was accidental.

01:37:33 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:37:34 ◼   ► John didn't do any research.

01:37:37 ◼   ► Marco and Casey wouldn't let him.

01:37:39 ◼   ► Because it was accidental.

01:37:41 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:37:42 ◼   ► Oh, it was accidental.

01:37:43 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:37:45 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at atp.fm.

01:37:50 ◼   ► And if you're into mastodon, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.

01:37:59 ◼   ► So, that's Casey Liss.

01:38:00 ◼   ► M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T.

01:38:04 ◼   ► Marco Arment.

01:38:06 ◼   ► S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A.

01:38:11 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:38:12 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:38:14 ◼   ► They didn't mean to.

01:38:16 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:38:18 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:38:19 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:38:20 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:38:21 ◼   ► So long.

01:38:23 ◼   ► I don't think I put political in the after show, but just before we came on the air, I saw

01:38:31 ◼   ► Jeff Atwood post that he had sold one of those new electric mail trucks.

01:38:35 ◼   ► What did he say?

01:38:36 ◼   ► But he said, a friend sent me this photo from a walk, and it's a nice reminder of progress

01:38:40 ◼   ► showing one of the incredibly ugly but still electric new mail trucks.

01:38:44 ◼   ► I didn't want to be that guy, but sometimes it's my turn to be that guy, so I had to reply

01:38:49 ◼   ► to him with a link to a story from August 17th that says the current administration is trying

01:38:56 ◼   ► to make a U-turn on the federal commitment to electric vehicles for the Postal Service

01:38:59 ◼   ► because electricity is bad, and we should not have electric vehicles, and we should go back

01:39:03 ◼   ► to diesel or whatever the hell.

01:39:04 ◼   ► So there is nothing that is good in this world that our current government will not

01:39:08 ◼   ► try to put a stop to and reverse.

01:39:10 ◼   ► Sorry for that pessimism, but it really is just so true.

01:39:15 ◼   ► It's difficult over here.

01:39:16 ◼   ► It's not just liquid glass.

01:39:18 ◼   ► Yeah, we're in a bad place, and it's getting worse, and it's going to take a lot of time

01:39:25 ◼   ► and a lot to clean up, but I do think we will eventually clean it up.

01:39:30 ◼   ► It's hard to see a way out right now, but...

01:39:34 ◼   ► And that's the thing.

01:39:34 ◼   ► And the Democrats are just...

01:39:37 ◼   ► As far as I can tell, they're just sitting there.

01:39:39 ◼   ► They'll die, too, eventually.

01:39:40 ◼   ► Well, in all fairness, that's what the Democrats do best, is they just sit there.

01:39:44 ◼   ► They're great at that.

01:39:46 ◼   ► Believe me, I'm not a huge fan of the Democrats in absolute terms.

01:39:49 ◼   ► They're just the only functioning governing party we have.

01:39:54 ◼   ► There are some good ones out there.

01:39:55 ◼   ► They're just not in charge.

01:39:56 ◼   ► Right, exactly.

01:39:57 ◼   ► Hopefully, there'll be some kind of turnover, and eventually, well, things will get better.

01:40:00 ◼   ► But it just boggles my mind.

01:40:02 ◼   ► This is all kind of centralized around...

01:40:04 ◼   ► Well, on my vacation, I got to see the big wind turbine blades.

01:40:09 ◼   ► I've taken pictures of them a few years running now.

01:40:11 ◼   ► They're all set up in, like, New London and being taken out to the water to be set up.

01:40:16 ◼   ► And those wind turbine farms were also stopped by the government because electricity through wind is bad.

01:40:23 ◼   ► Kills the whales or something.

01:40:25 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:40:26 ◼   ► Anyway, like, it's just...

01:40:27 ◼   ► Like, we can't...

01:40:29 ◼   ► It's just so frustrating to see things that were, like, put in motion, paid for, nearly completed,

01:40:34 ◼   ► and someone comes out and says,

01:40:35 ◼   ► No, we don't want electric cars.

01:40:37 ◼   ► We don't want electric mail trucks.

01:40:39 ◼   ► We don't want wind turbines.

01:40:40 ◼   ► We don't want any of that.

01:40:41 ◼   ► We need to go back to coal.

01:40:43 ◼   ► And it's just like,

01:40:44 ◼   ► Oh, my God.

01:40:45 ◼   ► What?

01:40:45 ◼   ► What?

01:40:46 ◼   ► And then I have to update the liquid glass, too?

01:40:49 ◼   ► On top of it?

01:40:50 ◼   ► I didn't give...

01:40:53 ◼   ► By the way, to get this back on TechTops,

01:40:54 ◼   ► I didn't give my liquid glass thing because you guys were going on for a while at the beginning.

01:40:57 ◼   ► But, like...

01:40:57 ◼   ► Us?

01:40:58 ◼   ► Yeah, my plan was always for Tahoe, as I just have Mac House.

01:41:03 ◼   ► My plan was always not to change any of my UIs like you guys were planning on doing.

01:41:08 ◼   ► Like, not to liquid glassify them, to use the new controls or whatever, but to simply make my existing apps look and work more or less how they do now with liquid glass.

01:41:20 ◼   ► I wasn't going to use the UI fallback, whatever that is, like UI compatibility, blah, blah, blah.

01:41:23 ◼   ► I was going to compile in the new SDK.

01:41:25 ◼   ► I was going to use any new APIs that are available, add features as appropriate, like add the new glass material to switch glass because, you know, it's liquid glass.

01:41:31 ◼   ► Makes sense, right?

01:41:32 ◼   ► But I wasn't going to like, oh, now I'm going to add a toolbar.

01:41:35 ◼   ► I'm going to use the search.

01:41:36 ◼   ► I'm not going to do any of that.

01:41:37 ◼   ► And just doing that, doing essentially no UI changes, just make it work with liquid glass, I feel like I'm barely going to make it by the skin of my teeth.

01:41:45 ◼   ► And my apps are simple.

01:41:46 ◼   ► And so Casey's like, yeah, last week I looked into changing call sheet.

01:41:49 ◼   ► I'm like, what?

01:41:50 ◼   ► That's...

01:41:52 ◼   ► You started so late, Casey.

01:41:54 ◼   ► No, I did.

01:41:54 ◼   ► You started way too late.

01:41:55 ◼   ► I started the day after WWDC banging my head against these five dinky apps and every beta that comes out, like Marco said, every beta that comes out, I go back through my screens like, well, they broke this.

01:42:04 ◼   ► Oh, here, this is broken a new way.

01:42:05 ◼   ► I've never seen that before.

01:42:06 ◼   ► What the hell is this?

01:42:08 ◼   ► I don't even have time to file the bugs anymore.

01:42:10 ◼   ► Like, they're breaking things in ways that I can't even understand how they're breaking.

01:42:13 ◼   ► They're breaking things in ways that are making me go back to my Sequoia versions, like the versions that are on the App Store, and say, was this always broken?

01:42:22 ◼   ► I'm like, no, it works fine in Sequoia.

01:42:24 ◼   ► And it's 100% broken in time, like code that I did not change, that has not changed in any way, that used to work and now doesn't anymore.

01:42:31 ◼   ► And I'm like, I don't even know how to file this as a feedback request.

01:42:35 ◼   ► It's just, it's exhausting.

01:42:37 ◼   ► And I'm doing nothing.

01:42:38 ◼   ► I'm doing absolutely nothing.

01:42:40 ◼   ► Like, I just, it should just be like, it looks the same as it always did, right?

01:42:43 ◼   ► That should have been no work for you.

01:42:44 ◼   ► And it's like, no, I've been working on it every single day since WWDC.

01:42:48 ◼   ► So I feel for you guys, but like, yeah, this, I think this is going to be a, it's making me fearful of upgrading my, my other devices to like, because I'll have to deal with everyone else's app.

01:43:01 ◼   ► And like, like I said, it's not, it's not their fault.

01:43:04 ◼   ► It's not the developer's fault that these apps don't work.

01:43:07 ◼   ► Apple's just breaking stuff.

01:43:08 ◼   ► And regardless of the whole, like, oh, well, they usually only have eight betas.

01:43:11 ◼   ► And that's probably the last one.

01:43:12 ◼   ► Like, that's not what we should be worried about.

01:43:14 ◼   ► We should worry about the calendar, the events on September 9th.

01:43:17 ◼   ► Like there's a deadline, like there's, they're going to ship these phones that, yeah, the pizza box things updates, the OS either way, like whatever OS is ready to go on the little pizza box things in the Apple stores and like September 15th.

01:43:30 ◼   ► Like that's what we're getting.

01:43:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:43:32 ◼   ► I mean, this is like, you know, you say like you're out of time to, to file bugs.

01:43:36 ◼   ► It wouldn't matter.

01:43:38 ◼   ► It's too late.

01:43:38 ◼   ► Like whatever.

01:43:40 ◼   ► No, it's, it's too, it's too late.

01:43:41 ◼   ► But like I've had things that are breaking that are like, I need this to be fixed within the next year, please.

01:43:45 ◼   ► Otherwise like people are like, Hey, why is your app broken?

01:43:47 ◼   ► And I'm like, Tahoe broke it.

01:43:48 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:43:49 ◼   ► I don't know why it doesn't work.

01:43:50 ◼   ► It's the same damn code.

01:43:51 ◼   ► I can't fix it.

01:43:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:43:52 ◼   ► Like any, at this point, like any significant bug that you still see will be lucky if it's fixed in 26.1.

01:43:59 ◼   ► It might even be like 26.2, 26.3.

01:44:02 ◼   ► I'm going to be lucky if these are fixed two years from now.

01:44:04 ◼   ► Like it's the type of thing, like some bugs that I like fought with and like, you know, like, like graphical glitches, like you're talking about graphical glitches.

01:44:12 ◼   ► It's even worse than Mac OS because I have like an app kit window that has a NS hosting view inside it with a Swift UI view.

01:44:18 ◼   ► And like the way wind, like literal windows on Mac OS interact with the views that have Swift UI views inside them when those things resize and how they like the timing between the app kit window resizing versus a Swift UI thing resizing being slightly off and stuff.

01:44:32 ◼   ► And that behavior is 100% change and it's changed in a way that I can't get it to look right in Tahoe, period, no matter what I do.

01:44:38 ◼   ► But it works fine using my existing code on the old OS.

01:44:42 ◼   ► And it's like, I don't even know how to file that.

01:44:45 ◼   ► Like that's never going to be fixed.

01:44:46 ◼   ► My app is just going to be janky from now on until Apple does something to magically fix it.

01:44:51 ◼   ► I did file a bunch of bugs on this years ago and they never got fixed.

01:44:55 ◼   ► And I just found workarounds.

01:44:56 ◼   ► I guess I'll just have to try to find workarounds in Tahoe.

01:44:58 ◼   ► But like I spent, I spent the past week trying to find workarounds for like window resizing, view resizing jank in Tahoe.

01:45:06 ◼   ► And I could not find a way to make it not janky.

01:45:09 ◼   ► So guess what?

01:45:10 ◼   ► It's going to be janky in Tahoe.

01:45:11 ◼   ► Not great.

01:45:13 ◼   ► Yeah, it's we're in for a rough fall.

01:45:17 ◼   ► And, and, you know, and you're right, like on the Mac, your odds of getting bugs fixed are much lower and take much longer timelines.

01:45:25 ◼   ► You know, we're lucky here in iOS land, me and Casey, like we're lucky that like iOS bugs do tend to get fixed significantly faster.

01:45:32 ◼   ► Yeah, because there'll be some important app like, you know, like Netflix or Facebook or I don't know, some app that Apple cares about will have the bug and they'll fix it.

01:45:39 ◼   ► But that's why I'm saying my timelines are years.

01:45:40 ◼   ► Like, will this be fixed in the, in the next two major releases?

01:45:43 ◼   ► If, and with, with Mac bugs, it's years, if ever, like many Mac bugs are just never fixed and we just have to deal with it.

01:45:50 ◼   ► Yeah, or they just become irrelevant because like the thing that you had the bug in goes away, like so much stuff in Mac OS went away.

01:45:56 ◼   ► Like there are things like there are constants and appearances and settings that just simply do nothing now because liquid glass has no concept of that thing.

01:46:02 ◼   ► And so you could just change these attributes and it's like, no, it doesn't change anything about it because that whole thing's gone.

01:46:07 ◼   ► And that's happened for years.

01:46:08 ◼   ► Like, you remember all the brush metal stuff, all that stuff still in Mac OS and you can set it, but you're never going to see brush metal, obviously.

01:46:14 ◼   ► Right. And so if you had any bugs about the brush metal appearance, they're all fixed because those attributes do nothing now.

01:46:20 ◼   ► Gracious. It's not fun out there, y'all. It's not fun out there, but you know what?

01:46:25 ◼   ► In a couple of weeks, we're going to be able to be distracted by consumerism, which I know is not great, but, but I feel like all three of us need a little distraction in that regard.

01:46:33 ◼   ► I bet you do too.

01:46:34 ◼   ► Yeah. The AirPods, put it this way, the AirPods pro three, which I know you're looking forward to.

01:46:39 ◼   ► There's no visible UI on them.