00:12:14
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If you're Massimo and you believe that you invented this technology properly patented and one of the biggest companies in the world just decided to ignore your patent, so you took them to court, I would be aggrieved.
00:12:23
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And if I won, and then behind the scenes they did a thing, or you think they might have done a thing, and then suddenly they kind of lost, I'd be aggrieved very much so.
00:12:34
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That said, if I were Massimo, I'd also be aggrieved if a judge or a patent official gave a narrow interpretation of our patent that allowed a workaround here.
00:12:46
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And that's the thing is, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know all the details of this case, but is it not, I mean, okay, I'm not going to double negative this.
00:12:55
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I think it's possible that the answer is, if you look at what Massimo patented, Apple's workaround gets around the details of the patent by not processing.
00:13:09
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It's also possible that Apple and its lawyers looked at the patent and said, is there a way we could build something, not just, because before I think the argument was on or off, turn it on or off.
00:13:20
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And they turned it off because they had to.
00:13:22
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Is it possible that in the background they've been looking at it very carefully and saying, let's build a workaround and then just take it to the commission and say, we worked around this issue.
00:13:35
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This new thing does not infringe on all these details here.
00:13:38
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In fact, it does this totally different thing.
00:13:40
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Is it reasonable that they might've done that as a strategy and that the patent people were like, actually, yes, there's no law against it.
00:13:49
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That kind of thing where it's like, this actually does it.
00:14:02
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We had previously spoken about the fact that the government of the United Kingdom wanted to put a backdoor into Apple's iCloud encryption.
00:14:11
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The US government has announced that this will no longer be happening.
00:14:18
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I will also quote from previous writer, friend of the show, Jess Weatherbed at The Verge.
00:14:23
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While it's unclear if the UK would negotiate new terms of Apple that would avoid implicating the data of US citizens, an unnamed US official told the Financial Times that such negotiations would not be faithful to the new agreement.
00:14:36
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So essentially, what it seems like is, while it's the US is kind of presenting it as like, the UK cannot get data of any US citizen, it kind of means the data cannot compel any US company to do this.
00:14:50
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I'm happy that this has happened because the whole thing is absolutely ridiculous.
00:14:53
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I think a key tell for me here going into the future is whether advanced data protection returns to the UK.
00:15:42
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I do wonder if there's an understanding here that something like Apple's not going to turn it back on for people, but it's not going to turn it off.
00:15:55
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And it's just sort of one of these, like, agreement to not compel Apple to do more.
00:16:02
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And it's just going to keep doing what it's doing, which is because before it was going to be compelled to do this.
00:16:07
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And it seems like that's not going to happen now.
00:16:09
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It's just because now I can't turn it back on again.
00:16:14
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And we don't know what is going on here.
00:16:18
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But this is interesting because this sounds like it's very much, look, that U.K. regulation totally overreached, right?
00:16:27
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It basically said, hey, we in the U.K. have decided that we get data everywhere from anyone in the world.
00:16:34
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And in this case, the U.S. government, but it really could have been any government, said, no, that's not going to work for us.
00:16:41
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And I mean, that's good because that shouldn't – I mean, I don't like it for U.K. citizens either, but I certainly don't like it for literally anyone in the world.
00:16:52
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One government says you have to give us all your data anywhere in the world if we ask for it.
00:16:58
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I do think Apple would have probably objected at the exact same way even if they would have just said it was just for U.K. citizens.
00:17:05
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I'm not sure if the American part really affected them too much, but it enabled them to be able to get the U.S. government to kind of like bully their way back through the doors, you know, and kind of get my government to shut up and sit down, which is essentially what happened.
00:17:20
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For listeners who are excited about folder actions in Tahoe, Jason has written an article about them already.
00:17:31
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It's a fun new feature in Tahoe, and what I found is people don't understand how to do it, and that is down to the fact that Apple made it require knowledge of shortcuts, extra knowledge of shortcuts.
00:17:47
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I mean, the way this works basically is that at a time or when a folder has something added to it or changes in it or a file is updated or whatever, it can run a shortcut, and so obviously you need to know something about shortcuts because you have to go in and set the shortcut to run, but the problem is, you know, when it's a folder monitoring for changes, what happens is there's no UI.
00:18:10
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You're basically – your shortcut is given a list of changes, and then that's it, and then Apple walks away, which means – so my article is basically like, how do you deal with this?
00:18:24
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And the answer is you have to do a repeat loop that repeats for each item in the list and then acts on it or tests it or whatever, and so you need to know how to put in a repeat loop.
00:18:38
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So I have some screenshots for that, and then you can filter because it will – the other thing is, like, if you're like, I need this – if this particular kind of file is added to my downloads folder, I want to act on it.
00:18:51
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You have to either add a filter step at the very top, filter files that says, you know, it has to be – and then you set up a set of rules.
00:19:00
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The extension is markdown or MD or whatever, or you can do an if statement inside the loop that says, if this file has attributes of whatever, then perform this action, otherwise don't.
00:19:18
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But, you know, I think there are people who could build a fairly simple shortcut to do what they want, but what they have to do is build their own filtering interface.
00:19:27
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This is something that if you use something like Hazel, it comes with a filtering interface for all of this.
00:19:33
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You set it up and say, then do this thing.
00:19:35
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And that's why you would – that's a reason to use a third-party utility like Hazel, even though Apple has provided this, because, you know, to do it in shortcuts, you need to add all of those extra little bits.
00:19:47
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And then the extra wrinkle here that Dan Morin found is it acts on subfolders by default.
00:19:53
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So if you pick a folder, any change to anything inside that folder or a folder inside that folder or a folder inside a folder inside a folder also kicks off.
00:20:03
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And then trying to find a way to say, no, no, no, not subfolders is actually really hard.
00:20:11
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And we had a couple different ways where we tried to deal with it.
00:20:13
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I mean, my opinion is some of this stuff should probably just be built by Apple when you set up an automation.
00:20:22
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And so my piece in six colors is sort of some basic guidelines to how to get that up and running because it's a really cool feature, right?
00:20:28
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I mean, the idea that if a file just ends up somewhere on your Mac, your Mac does something to it, and that it's an OS feature, you don't have to install third-party software, that's pretty powerful.
00:20:38
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Or a little less complex, but the idea that you can set a shortcut to run at a particular time or whatever, that's also really nice.
00:20:46
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And that's been available on iOS for a while, but not on the Mac until Tahoe.
00:20:50
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This episode is brought to you by our friends over at FitBot.
00:20:55
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00:22:06
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I get the instructions, but I can also watch the video shot from multiple angles to make sure I'm doing it in the right way.
00:22:11
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All of this is important because your muscles, they work together.
00:22:14
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When they're in concert, the entire musculoskeletal system, that's what you're looking for.
00:22:19
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You don't want to overwork some muscles.
00:23:02
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Bloomberg is reporting that Apple is currently boosting manufacturing capability in India to prepare for manufacturing the majority of this year's US iPhones in the country.
00:23:12
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Depending on the reporting that I've read, it dictates how much is being said is being made here.
00:23:22
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Some reports say it's all US iPhones, and Apple have kind of hinted towards that.
00:23:26
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But other reports, including this Bloomberg one, go a little softer on it, which I think might be maybe the more accurate way to look at it.
00:23:32
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They might not all be made in India, push comes to shove.
00:23:35
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But I think ideally for Apple, they would much prefer to get the majority of them made there.
00:23:42
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This is significant because it's the first time that all four iPhones will be produced in India at the original time of release.
00:23:50
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So Apple will have a lot of phones made in India and have for some time, I think, had even like, you know, the new iPhone comes around, the base one, and it will be made in India to start with, and it will be used in different places.
00:24:01
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But for all of the phones, including the Pro phones, to be made in India on day one is a big deal.
00:24:07
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Bloomberg sources indicate that around half of the iPhones produced in India will be by the Tata Group over the next two years.
00:24:15
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This is another interesting thing because it shifts them away from Foxconn and China.
00:24:20
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So both things are the diversification, right?
00:24:23
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So like we're always talking about diversifying from China.
00:24:27
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This is also diversifying manufacturing partner because even in India, the other half of those phones will be made by Foxconn factories in India.
00:24:36
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But this is actually them breaking away even from Foxconn.
00:24:40
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So I find that interesting too, that like they're working with another manufacturer as well as taking themselves out of one country.
00:25:02
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Tariffs might be a part of this, although how exempt is Apple and what does it matter and what are the tariffs in China versus the tariffs in India for Apple, which is a different question.
00:25:28
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However, I would say that the Trump administration's focus on American manufacturing and the sort of scattershot tariff thing that just kind of clouds global transactions certainly provides Apple reason, but also cover to diversify its manufacturing outside of China.
00:25:53
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And so, again, I think that this plays to Apple's benefit in the long run, because I think even if Apple doesn't, like if you were to say, oh, yeah, but they've spent all this money building things in China or in India to get out of China, and it turns out that the tariffs are the same or the tariffs are worse in India or whatever, would Apple regret it?
00:26:15
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I think Apple got too single-sourced from China, and even though China is and will remain a major portion of Apple's production system, because Apple really does have a global production system, I think Apple will be very happy if in 10 years there are, you know, five or six countries where they're making iPhones.
00:26:39
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And that it's just like we make them all over the world, different parts, because then if something happens in one of them, and this is why, I mean, this came up and gave them some cover during COVID, right?
00:26:48
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Because there were some COVID shutdowns where Apple like lost the ability to make Macs for a little while because of a particular area in China that had a COVID outbreak and a factory shutdown.
00:26:57
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China shut down differently to a lot of the world, like very, very aggressively for a long time.
00:27:04
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So from a geopolitical standpoint, but also from a logistical standpoint, it's a thing that plays into Apple's hands.
00:27:12
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I mean, if that Apple in China book taught us anything, it's that Apple has some pretty exacting standards.
00:27:19
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And if they are happy with the output coming out of India, that means that they have, this is what happened in China, is Apple's exacting standards created knowledge and capacity in China for building phones.
00:27:35
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And then, you know, now they also build other phones and other stuff that they've learned from Apple.
00:27:40
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That's probably what's been going on in India, right?
00:27:43
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Because like, I don't think anybody's going to take a phone out of the box that was assembled in India and go, oh, the glass is sideways and it's the wrong, it's two different colors.
00:27:52
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And like Apple's standards are so high that what they're doing is instead they're forcing these factories to be, because Apple's there, right?
00:28:01
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It's not just like they let Tata build it and this is the lesson of Foxconn is Apple's really running that factory and determining what comes out of it and setting the bar where they feel it needs to be set.
00:28:13
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And that ends up benefiting the knowledge base in India to do electronics manufacturing like this in the long run.
00:28:43
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No, but it's, like I said, it is both geopolitical reality and also providing pretty good cover for Apple to make changes that will benefit it in a long run.
00:28:52
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They were always going to do this, right?
00:28:54
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Because it's like there's a lot of benefit to it.
00:28:56
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But, like, would they have made the iPhone 17 Pro in India for the U.S. in 2025?
00:29:03
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No, they would be much less aggressive.
00:29:05
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So what I wonder is, while I agree with you, I don't expect quality to be an issue, I wonder if availability will be an issue.
00:29:12
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Like, will there be, you know, will they be able to produce them at the exact same quality level, at the exact same volumes as the Foxconn plants in China can?
00:29:24
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And when Bloomberg hedges here, I think that is one of the things that may happen, is they're building as many as they can in India, and the rest of them, to fill demand, will come from China.
00:30:04
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You know, and like, I'm sure it's not as simple as that, but I also expect that it is simpler than I would have, than you would naturally assume, considering how complex these things are.
00:30:14
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So, there is an interesting thing about tariffs, because if you've been paying attention to the news, like, at the moment, India is one of the hardest-hit tariff countries by the US, right?
00:30:24
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There's, like, over 50% or something like that.
00:30:31
◼►
So, it seems that, as of right now, iPhones will still have a tariff, if they're being made in India, but it's the base tariff, which is lower than China's base tariff.
00:31:08
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It appears from the reporting, from what I've been reading, they will pay something, but it's not going to be as high as you would imagine.
00:31:15
◼►
And, but as you mentioned, all of this is just, like, the perfect shield for Apple from a political standpoint.
00:31:22
◼►
Because it's one of these things, it is politics, right?
00:31:49
◼►
China has been an incredible partner to Apple, but they need to have more than one place that can make these phones at the level that they need them.
00:31:58
◼►
China loses some leverage there, but I think even China has to understand that it's just how it is.
00:35:43
◼►
And so, like, why did they stop making leather?
00:35:45
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Because they had environmental reasons and okay.
00:35:48
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Why did they start making fine woven, which will now be tech woven?
00:35:53
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The answer is because they wanted another thing that wasn't silicone, that felt more premium,
00:35:59
◼►
so they could sell it at that high price, which is a huge margin.
00:36:03
◼►
And so, that's the reason for fine woven, and that'll be the reason for tech woven, is they really want another material that they can sell as a premium because they make a huge amount of money and per unit a huge profit on selling these things because they got the Apple logo, and it's an upsell when you're in the store, and it's just business.
00:36:22
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And I would wager that most, well, not most, many upgrade users, a much higher percentage of upgrade listeners than in the general public are savvy, and they're finding, like, the cool case that they can get that's a pretty good deal, or it's got really good materials.
00:36:39
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But I would say most people, it's just like, they go in the Apple store, they buy a phone, and they're like, yeah, I want the pink one, and then get the case, and they're done until they buy another iPhone in five years.
00:36:50
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So, it's a place for Apple to take that $1,000 iPhone purchase and make it an $1,100 iPhone purchase and add another $80 to their profit on that sale.
00:37:01
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So, that's why the wovens, the woven family of materials, Mike, the woven, it's not a color way, material way, exists.
00:37:33
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It remains to be seen how tech woven would hold up, but Majin Buu says they, quote, resist glossing and maintain a consistent appearance even after weeks of use.
00:37:51
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But, look, they've had two years, and they know that fine woven was not really well received, and they've been trying to make something better.
00:37:58
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I'm sure one of the things they've been trying to address is all of the issues with fine woven.
00:38:34
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Mac Rumors is reporting via Leaker Digital Chat Station that the design of the iPhone 17e could change when it's expected to be released next year.
00:38:47
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The notch would be replaced with Dynamic Island.
00:38:49
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It would have an A19 chip and a refresh to the industrial design, which Mac Rumors speculates could maybe mirror the iPhone 15 design, which would be in line with how the 16e is modeled on the iPhone 14.
00:40:46
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And we even see it in our download numbers and in web traffic.
00:40:52
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The iPhone event is huge in a way that other Apple events are not because it's the iPhone and it's the biggest product by far that they sell.
00:41:00
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It's not the same as these other products.
00:41:05
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You could do it twice a year and get that attention, global product attention twice a year.
00:41:09
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You could have two totally separate commercial rollouts, marketing rollouts on TV and at sporting events and stuff like that.
00:41:18
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And if you're going to add models every year, so you're releasing six phones a year, which would be the 18 Air, 18 Pro, 18 Pro Max, 18E and 18 Fold.
00:41:42
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And then also, because they are still going to be iPhone events, you can slot in other products and have them be seen by more people, right?
00:41:52
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Instead of doing a bunch of press releases for some Macs or whatever, or instead of like saying, hey, everyone, come watch this iPad event.
00:42:00
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It's like, oh, hey, no, we have another Apple event.
00:42:02
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Everyone knows there's going to be iPhones at that event.
00:42:05
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And also there'll be other products too.
00:42:07
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And that might help them kind of make those a little bit more interesting as well, because it will be, I will be fascinated to see exactly how in this world, Apple sells the iPhone 18 when we know everything about what it will have six months before.
00:42:40
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But the fact is, you know, I don't watch as much sports in the spring as I do in the fall, but I, I can tell you, like, I've seen Apple market the 16E.
00:43:20
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Like that, Apple's doing this all, all year round.
00:43:22
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I think, I think that's one of those cases, the iPhone, and the reason I keep saying that the iPhone event is the biggest event of the year and all of that is because I think in our community, the iPhone doesn't have the stature that it has in the world.
00:43:34
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And we just think of it as being sort of like another Apple product.
00:43:37
◼►
And the truth is it's, it's the Apple product.
00:43:39
◼►
And so like they're, they're marketing it all the time and doing a second rollout makes a lot of sense to me.
00:43:44
◼►
And also, I mean, let's be honest here.
00:43:47
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If they're going to do six phones a year, even if the e-phone is going to be in the spring, five new phones in September, not only is that huge and hard for Apple from a manufacturing standpoint, but obviously from a marketing standpoint, it's, you're flooding the zone.
00:44:04
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From retail, you make, it's harder for the retail store to, to handle everything.
00:44:09
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It's like, it becomes really, it just also just imagine the event itself is just getting longer and longer and longer.
00:44:17
◼►
Like it, it allows them to be able to let the pro phones and the folding phones to breathe a bit too, that they can spend more time talking about.
00:44:26
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The people who really, really, really want to be on the cutting edge, the pro and the fold phones will be the ones that they care about.
00:44:32
◼►
And for people who don't care so much, it coming out in the spring is fine, right?
00:44:38
◼►
Because those are, those are more people.
00:44:41
◼►
And I know there are, these are generalizations and there are people who are like, well, I always get a phone every couple of years and I always do it in the fall where, when it's the new one, but I never get the pro phone.
00:44:49
◼►
And it's like, okay, I mean, that, that will happen, but I think there is a less, it's a less committed, uh, first off, phones get bought all year round.
00:45:00
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They are not annual purchases for almost anybody.
00:45:03
◼►
I know there are people out there who are on the annual plan and all that, but like the bulk of people, it's many years and they're not doing it in the fall, uh, necessarily.
00:45:12
◼►
And putting them out in the spring, it's just not a big deal.
00:45:15
◼►
I don't think we may think, oh, well, that makes them an afterthought in the spring, but I don't think the world thinks that.
00:46:08
◼►
And I have to imagine that even though Apple is obviously designing phones all the time, including for many years out, I have to imagine getting to final production ramp.
00:46:22
◼►
Taking a big chunk of that and moving it to a different time of year, probably in the long run will make things easier.
00:46:41
◼►
Like if you're, if you're sort of like every six months turning over a portion of your production line, you might actually be able to keep, uh, your staffing levels more static because you don't have a big bump where you need to bring people in.
00:46:53
◼►
Instead, they're sort of working all year round.
00:46:56
◼►
I don't know enough about that stuff, but I've got to think three and three is better than, than four in one.
00:47:03
◼►
It's like, we both know enough people at Apple that like September for them is hellish, even though it happens every year.
00:47:12
◼►
It's because you've still got to push, like everything is going to hit this hard deadline.
00:47:19
◼►
So removing some, removing some of it and like moving it out and like you have less assets to create, less of this, less of this, it will make it that little bit easier.
00:47:29
◼►
Less testing to do, you know, you will, you'll be testing half the models then instead of all of the models then to make sure that they're working with the OS that you're putting on them.
00:47:40
◼►
So I've got to think, I'm sure there are some complications, but like, yeah, it makes a whole lot of sense to do it this way.
00:47:46
◼►
I think for the bigger picture, uh, as, uh, what was it, uh, Jason in the discord said, and I think that he, he said this really well, the people buying these phones aren't connected to the iPhone cycle.
00:47:56
◼►
My wife's last two phones were bought in the summer with full knowledge.
00:48:08
◼►
And that's when I, when I say the iPhone is sold all year round, that's what I mean is like, we're going to get the next set of results are going to, and this last set that we just had, I mean, we are in the desert of iPhone and they still sell a load of iPhones because most people don't care.
00:48:22
◼►
They're upgrading from a phone so old that they don't need to wait three months.
00:48:27
◼►
They drop their phone, the screen shattered.
00:50:03
◼►
Well, now after having Z-Biotics pre-alcohol, I felt much better and can have the drink that I want to have.
00:50:09
◼►
The final days of summer are here for you to enjoy.
00:50:12
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A thanks to Z-Biotics for the support of this show and Relay.
00:50:51
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Mark Gurman is giving some more detail about the 2026 and 2027 iPhone line, so the one that we're expecting.
00:51:01
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Yeah, he did a little roundup in his newsletter.
00:51:02
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A lot of it previously reported, but he has some new details in there.
00:51:05
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Yeah, there's some stuff that, as you say, is new, but also there are some things that I trust more when Mark says them.
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One of them being, the iPhone folder is going to jump straight to it, Touch ID instead of Face ID.
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This was another rumor which I was very disappointed about.
00:51:32
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Like, if the iPhone Air has Face ID, to me, there's kind of no excuse.
00:51:38
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I think, so my guess here, I know you don't care, but I'm just going to say, my guess here is, they looked at the size and cost of doing the complete Face ID module on the inside and the outside of this.
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Because it's got to be both directions, and we're like, we cannot do that.
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I bet they want to get there, but like, or we could do a single Touch ID button on the side and use it, whether it's open or closed, and save space and save money.
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And that's why it's going to cost $2,000 instead of $3,000.
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There was a Google, I want to say a Nexus phone, that had a fingerprint reader on the back, and I would literally pick it up, and I just learned to pick it up with my index finger in that place, and it became invisible, right?
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I'm sure there were some very technical reasons why.
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You're going to ask me to spend more money on an iPhone than I've ever spent, maybe even twice the price of the other iPhone that I would buy, and then I end up with Touch ID, which, I don't care what you say, we all know is set to be an inferior experience.
00:54:52
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It would feature the C2 modem, which, quote, will be the company's first cellular chip with capabilities approaching the latest from Qualcomm.
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I'm not sure if he knows anything here other than the fact that it's the C2 and that he's previously reported that they're on a path to make a—you're not going to believe this, Mike.
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I actually don't believe it's possible.
00:55:12
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And Apple have recently switched to a new screen approach that would diminish the crease on the inside display.
00:55:18
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Yeah, it sounds like they were trying to use this technology that was a little less accurate and created a little more of a gap and diminished the crease on the inside, or made the crease maybe a little bit more.
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And the question is, not covered in that article, is why were they trying to use that sort of cell technology instead?
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My guess is they were trying to save on thickness or save on price or both.
00:55:44
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Yeah, and they realized that wasn't good enough.
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And I think that that's a case where Apple probably just said, no, we've got to use the more presumably expensive technology because it solves—it makes the touch more accurate.
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It brings the screen closer to the surface, and it reduces crease.
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And if that means that our price has to go up by $100 or $200, they said, so be it.
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I'm just absolutely just shooting from the hip.
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My expectation is this is a newer thing, too, because in the last year, there have been some pretty big leaps in the screen technology for these phones.
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I think this is maybe like a newer way of doing it, which is basically making a folding version of the current screens that we have rather than a folding-first screen, which it might have been before.
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But either way, I know we said this a few months ago, but this is why it's happening now, is that the tech has gotten to the point now.
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And I think this is a great sign in some ways of Apple saying, no, no, no, no, we're going to do it the good way.
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Because Apple is now confident that they can make a product that they can stand behind and that they're excited about.
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And that's one of the reasons I'm excited about it is I think it's going to be really good.
00:57:39
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I mean, I'm very excited about this product, especially because Federico Vattici, your compatriot from Connected, just did a little Mastodon thread today where he was talking about he likes to use other products so that he can get a sense of where Apple's ahead and behind.
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And he was talking about tablet stuff because he said, look, Apple's behind in AI, right?
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He's like, my judgment, like you can look at all the other players.
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You can't say that they're not behind.
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But he said, on tablets, everyone has given up.
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And I can just tell, you know, I can tell you from my experience using various Android-based e-reader tech in the last couple of years, Apple is so much further ahead.
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It's not going to sell in volume, but it's going to be really, really good.
00:58:47
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And one of the reasons why is that we talk about Apple investing 10 years in something like the Vision Pro and hoping for a product at the end of it.
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Well, Apple's invested 15 years in the iPad.
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And although the iPad's got issues, lots of issues, wow, is it going to pay off with this thing, I think.
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Not a lot of people are going to buy that first model.
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But the idea that you got an iPhone and then you open it up and you got an iPad and it's one device and then you close it up and put it back in your pocket as your phone.
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Man, that's, there is, I can see the use cases for that, right?
00:59:44
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Real-time follow-up, because I was going here, because I know that Mark German had said something in the article about like, he expects it to be super popular, which we agree with.
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He updated it to say that it will feature four cameras, one on the front, one on the inside and two on the back.
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Neil asks, you arrive at the airport for a weekend break and realize you don't have your AirPods with you.
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You're facing a flight and two days without your favorite podcasts.
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Do you, A, buy a new pair of AirPods at the airport, B, buy a cheaper pair of Bluetooth headphones, or C, resolve to read more instead and learn for the next time?
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I don't remember how we got to two, but I know that we got to three because I ordered some AirPods Pro, yeah, the original AirPods Pro, and they ended up, I got them with an engraving on them, and they ended up getting lost in the mail, and I then got a replacement pair, and then the original pair arrived.
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We have a thing in the UK called Center Parks, which is a bit kind of like outdoorsy and adventure-y, and I want to do stuff like that with her.
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One is we did a bunch of cruises for Macworld back in the day when my kids were little.
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That's that – you know, that's the thing of like you saying about people taking you to – you know, asking us to go to, I don't know, New Zealand or whatever.
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You used to do the Macworld cruises, so you know, you got something.
01:51:40
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Anyway, well, I mean, it was – we got the discount rate, but it wasn't – it wasn't nothing.
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We went to the Baltic for a cruise, and that was – that was the – that's the cruise I recommend to people who have not taken a cruise.
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It's the only cruise I would do again, really, I think, in the world is that one.
01:51:57
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But that was amazing because it was Copenhagen, Helsinki, Stockholm, St. Petersburg, and then north coast of Germany, and also Gotland out in the middle of the Baltic, the little Swedish island that's out there.
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And it was spectacular, and it was like a little sample.
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We'd never been to that part of the world before, so it was a little sampler of all these amazing things around the Baltic Sea.
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They had a little 4th of July thing on the ship as we were sailing out of St. Petersburg, and to be in Russia on the 4th of July was amazing.
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We have a picture of us with the little American flags in Russia on a boat.
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And the kids – Julian was just a baby, but Jamie had a fun time, and that was awesome.
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It was truly a beautiful time of year.
01:52:50
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Oh, and the sun never – the sun went down, but, like, it's that super north latitude thing where the sun, like – you're like, oh, the sun's about to set.
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And then you realize the sun's mostly going sideways, and it takes, like, hours, and the sunset lasts forever.
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And it really is just barely under the horizon at 2 a.m. or whatever, and then it comes – just amazing.
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The weather was perfect, never got rained on, it was clear, just never going to be replicated, and a great place with us and our kids.
01:53:16
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And then, secondarily, I will say we used to have a, every year, Camp Grandma and Grandpa, where Lauren's parents would take our children for a week.
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And we left them there, and we went and had no children for a week, which was a nice vacation for all.
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Because, although it leads to a very weird thing where we'll be – the whole family will be somewhere, and I'll say, oh, I've always wanted to go somewhere.
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And my kids will be like, we went there.
01:53:46
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I'm like, how did you go there if I haven't been there?
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And the answer is, Grandma and Grandpa took us there.
01:53:51
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And they took them – they're like, when did you go to Legoland?
01:53:54
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When did you go to the Wild Animal Park?
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It's like, oh, Grandma and Grandpa again.
01:54:03
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So, they loved that, and I loved that they got that experience with their grandparents, that they will always remember spending a lot of quality time with their grandparents in a way that, like I said, I had my, you know, couple childhood visits to my grandmother in her apartment in Pennsylvania, but that was about it.
01:54:19
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So, it's great that they got to experience that.
01:54:21
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And Andrew asks me, Mike, where do you hope to someday take your kid for a summer vacation?