Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► From Relay, this is Upgrade, episode 566. It is the WWDC 2025 Draft. Today's show is brought

00:00:17 ◼   ► to you by Oracle Squarespace and Delete Me. I am one of your combatants. I am in fact the

00:00:24 ◼   ► Draft Champion. My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by Draft Challenger, Jason Snell.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Hi, Jason. Hi, Mike. Here to fight for Draft supremacy once again.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Well, you can at least try. I have a snow talk question for you.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I said fight for. I didn't say here to get it. I said here to fight for it.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Yeah, you could try to fight for it.

00:00:45 ◼   ► That's the trying. I'm trying. I'm like, here to try. You're like, well, you could try.

00:00:48 ◼   ► I'm like, yeah, I could try.

00:00:49 ◼   ► Joshua, who says, do you think Tim Cook will say something to the effect of we love our developers

00:00:54 ◼   ► during the WWDC opening?

00:00:56 ◼   ► Well, let's see how the draft goes.

00:00:59 ◼   ► You think that could be a pick?

00:01:01 ◼   ► I mean, it could be. It could be.

00:01:05 ◼   ► Thank you to Joshua for sending that snow talk question. And if you'd like to send in a question

00:01:09 ◼   ► of your own, go to upgradefeedback.com. It actually leads nicely into a hype check. Before we start the draft, I want to do a WWDC hype check with you, Jason. How are you feeling? We're a week away from the keynote. Basically, a week and 45 minutes away at the time that we record. How are you feeling about WWDC right now?

00:01:29 ◼   ► It is hard to believe that in a week I will be standing in Apple Park.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it won't be started yet. We'll probably be standing and chatting. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's going to be interesting. I was reading. I was reading the piece that Mark Gurman wrote. He wrote his sort of one week out. Here's everything that I've reported to spoil everything.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Yeah. We'll get to that a little later on. We'll get maybe an upgrade plus.

00:01:56 ◼   ► And one of the things that he mentioned that I hadn't really thought about that I thought was a really a good thing to note, which is two years ago was the Vision Pro. And last year was Apple Intelligence.

00:02:14 ◼   ► And what he said was unlikely to be as dramatic as the last two. And I thought, you know, that's true. That's I think that's actually really true. This year, that's part of what I'm feeling is it is unlikely to be as dramatic as the last two, because the last two were kind of big and interesting for new and weird reasons.

00:02:36 ◼   ► And you could also argue that it was, you know, a product that wasn't ready to ship and then it shipped eventually and nobody really bought it because it was a very different kind of product than and not nobody should have bought it.

00:02:51 ◼   ► And then the other one was a promise to get people to get off their backs about AI that Apple didn't really deliver on. So I could also argue that maybe Apple sees this year as an opportunity to kind of go back to what works for it.

00:03:10 ◼   ► And I think German made that point too. Like you could, you can say, like, we could do the takes now. I feel like we do this every year when we get to this point, which is like, you could do the takes now, which is Apple's going to show off a bunch of stuff that I think it's going to be more comfortable talking about.

00:03:25 ◼   ► OS design that serves their existing kind of like product strategy pretty well. And, and what they're going to deemphasize is the stuff that they're not as strong on. And so the criticism will be Apple's backpedaling on AI or where are they with AI? And they're going to have to deal with that issue. And they're going to have to, you know, they'll contextualize the vision pro as well. Like there's stuff that they got to do, but I do think that part of it is it's going to feel different because it's going to,

00:03:53 ◼   ► I think Apple is going to try to put forward some of its strengths as a company. And yeah, it's going to, so, so I think it's going to be interesting. I don't think it's going to be dramatic. I think it's, I, you know, I'm, I'm viewing this year as a really interesting WWDC year because I am curious how Apple pitches it, which is a very different take than I'm, I want to see what Apple's AI strategy is, or I want

00:04:23 ◼   ► to see what Apple's first headset looks like, right? This is more like how does Apple, you know, describe their vision for their, the design of their operating systems and how does it do damage control about AI and what does it say about what it promises for new features and what it refuses to promise for new features. It's just a really different vibe for me.

00:04:45 ◼   ► I think dramatic is an issue. I would, so the same thing, I would say controversial. I think the last two years were pretty controversial in different ways, right? Vision Pro was controversial because of the price, right? And like, does, even at the time, like, do we want this? Like in the way, the decisions that Apple made led to lots of dunking and, you know, like with the eyes on the front and stuff.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Last year, I was talking to underscore David Smith today and I was talking about WWDC last year and I remember how pleased I was that we had to record on Tuesday because I could not even get my head around what I thought about WWDC last year, which is I've never felt that way before, right?

00:05:32 ◼   ► Where like, I just couldn't gather my emotions to talk about it. Like I, it was like inconceivable some of the things that I saw, I felt like, right? And like the things that they were showing off. I don't think we've got that this year. I don't think it's going to be like either of those this year. I think, I think a redesign, if it is as broad as been suggested, is quite dramatic, but I don't think it is controversial in the same way.

00:06:02 ◼   ► That's true.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Mac power users that you run. Yes.

00:06:35 ◼   ► Right. A little follow out.

00:06:36 ◼   ► It's a really good one. Really good so far. I'm enjoying it. I like that Jason Snow guy. I think he's got a future in this business.

00:06:41 ◼   ► That was a fun conversation.

00:06:43 ◼   ► And you know, I was reflecting on you saying a thing that me and you have spoken about, right? Which is just like, we don't want to talk about all the things that we talk about, but we, there is a responsibility to talk about them because it is the thing that's going on. You can't, I don't feel like it's right to just ignore it. Right.

00:06:59 ◼   ► But we try and do our best. And this year we've tried more than last year to not get into every, like to get mired in everything, but sometimes you can't avoid it. But I am excited for the next at least three months or a couple, you know, to be talking about the way that things look and how that will adjust over the beta period. And that excites me.

00:07:21 ◼   ► And we should be specific. I mean, what you're not saying is I'm, I am really looking forward to praising Apple's design. I think it's more like I'm really looking forward to getting, to getting into the reason, one of the things that motivates us to be enthusiastic about technology, which is things like the shape of a button, a design choice in a user interface.

00:07:45 ◼   ► These are things that I, I love to talk about and debate. And I, you know, you're talking about an aspect of product design and user experience and like choices Apple makes that are puzzling. And you try to understand why they made those choices. And the reason is not to maximize their revenue or to avoid legal complications, but it's because they think in a, in a more pure way, it's a good user experience or, and maybe we don't agree.

00:08:12 ◼   ► Like that is to me, that is the core kind of stuff that attracted me to this field and that I enjoy talking about with you. Uh, and so it's not just sort of like, Oh, let's, let's only have a conversation about the things Apple wants us to discuss. That's not it, but it is like, give us some material that we can work with. That's a little less soul crushing, please. Uh, that would be nice. Thank you.

00:08:36 ◼   ► But I am also interested in the things that they don't show. Like they don't talk about, like what is the, you know, like what is their AI story? And what does that look like for this time period? What do they show? What don't they show? Do they touch on developers in any way? Like, what do we hear about from the people that are there? Like, I'm intrigued about it. And like, similarly, it started already. Uh, there will be no Apple executives at the talk show this year, breaking like a 10 year span.

00:09:06 ◼   ► Um, that occurring. I remember when Phil Schiller came out. Um, there's a funny, quick, funny story about that. Um, we had recorded connected. Me and Steven were in, uh, San Francisco, San Francisco and Federico wasn't there. I don't, I don't think he'd started joining that year. I think that's the case. Or maybe we'd all recorded, but anyway, Steven was back in the hotel and he, you know what? It may have actually been, he was dealing with the edit of rocket or something.

00:09:35 ◼   ► It was either rocket or connected. It was a struggle. And he was like, I'll skip the talk show. And I went with a bunch of others and Phil Schiller came out texting. I'm like, you've got to come here right now. Like I was in the back of the theater because what I had come to realize in the years past is that one of the best things about the talk show at that point is that the bar was open and free. Like instead of sitting down, just go stand at the bar and you can just get as many drinks as you want.

00:10:03 ◼   ► And then calling it a theater is that, that was a venue that was basically like a club. So it was basically just flat. Uh, I don't even know if there were seats.

00:10:11 ◼   ► There were seats, but it was uncomfortable because of that. Like they weren't like good seats. You could just stand and it was fine. Yeah. Um, or maybe there weren't seats. Maybe it was standing and it was like another reason to stand at the back.

00:10:21 ◼   ► I remember standing like squashed in with everyone. I actually think you're right. I think it was all standing. So like I used to stand at the back, stand at the bar, have drinks as well. If you want, you can lean on the bar, hang out. You could chat and you're not interrupting the conversation and listen to Phil Schiller came out and it was like, you got to get to here right now. Yeah. It was so funny, man. That was, that was, that was, that was incredibly exciting.

00:10:39 ◼   ► So that was 2015. That was 2015. Yeah. Um, but, uh, John put tickets, he's still doing the talk show live this year. Tickets went up and I think to his credit, and I respect John a lot for this, just said like, don't expect it. Cause it ain't happening.

00:10:54 ◼   ► He asked and they said no. Um, I wondered if you had any thoughts on that. I mean, this is so similar to, I mean, I have been dealing with this for almost 30 years now of working with Apple. Right. And you, when you're a member of the media and you're working with Apple, I mean, the way I have always approached it is nothing is guaranteed. And I know, and I have people who are like, Oh, come on. Like you're, you're going to Apple park next week. I'm like, I didn't consider that guaranteed until I got the invitation.

00:11:23 ◼   ► And sometimes I have to work for it. Like, you know, there are times that I don't get invited to things and I go to the people I know in PR and I try to make my case and say, I'd really like to go. And yes, do I pull out the, I've been to basically every Apple event since, you know, since 1998. I do. But in the end, like they don't, they don't have to let me in. I've had over the course of my career, I have all sorts of different levels of access appear and disappear and reappear. Sometimes it feels punitive.

00:11:52 ◼   ► I was surprised. I'll tell you where I'm coming from here is I was surprised that everybody read John's announcement as punishment for him writing that piece about something being rotten in Cupertino.

00:12:03 ◼   ► I mean, sometimes it does. So no, just hear me out here. Sometimes it feels punitive. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's not about you. It's about Apple and what their priorities are. Sometimes it is about you. The problem is you never really know. And if you're a professional, you just got to roll with it. Do what you need to do to do your job and let Apple do what it wants.

00:12:30 ◼   ► Um, I, I think, which is what I have had, right? I have. Yeah, I have had, he's a pro. Um, I have had.

00:12:38 ◼   ► Access removed. They'll never tell you, but I have definitely had access removed for reasons that I could intuit that were dumb reasons.

00:12:51 ◼   ► But in the end, like, they don't owe me anything. So they can do what they want and you just got to roll with it. Now others can judge them. And I would argue that it's probably short-sighted for Apple to forego that venue. Um, I, I, not as somebody who is just pro John or, but just thinking of it from Apple's perspective.

00:13:15 ◼   ► I feel like the talk show live was a place for Apple executives to seem a little more human and to get their story out in a slightly, slightly less controlled way, but still in a pretty friendly and understanding setting.

00:13:28 ◼   ► John is a fair interviewer. Like he is, he does a good job. I mean, people call it, say that he should be tougher. And I understand why people say that, but it doesn't work like that. Like you, you can't, you know, you can't just keep asking questions and not getting answers to them. There's not really much point doing that.

00:13:43 ◼   ► I've enjoyed some of the upgrade interviews we've done with Apple people for the same reason. Cause I think it humanizes them and it lets you kind of see Apple as a company full of people who care about the products that they're talking about and that they're creating. And I think that benefits Apple. So I would say that it's short-sighted, but again, they have different priorities. You know, people have complained to us about why didn't you ask the, you know, Tim and Tom about this or this or that.

00:14:06 ◼   ► And just as an aside, I'll say one of your jobs as the host of upgrade or as the host of the talk show live is to have a conversation.

00:14:17 ◼   ► That's interesting. And, and there are some interviews that I've seen where people ask a whole bunch of questions that will not get an answer that everybody knew wouldn't get answered.

00:14:28 ◼   ► And you end up spending five minutes of your time with this very limited access, asking questions that get nothing and benefit no one because there's no answer.

00:14:41 ◼   ► And I know the other side of it is you still got to ask those questions and sometimes you do, but what you try to do. And I think what John tries to do is ask about the issues involved in a way that they're, that they might actually respond so that you could get something that you can glean about how Apple is thinking about an area.

00:15:00 ◼   ► But if you just straight up ask them something, you know, they're never going to touch, you're wasting everybody's time.

00:15:06 ◼   ► And congratulations. You just made your conversation awkward. Like, you know, I did like that. What are we doing here?

00:15:11 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah. No, I will. I will. I mean, also it's true. The last few years have been less informative, I think, than previous years.

00:15:20 ◼   ► And I think that I don't know what caused that, but I know that having Greg Joswiak sitting on stage, it's basically like the cops are there, right?

00:15:31 ◼   ► Like your head of marketing and PR is literally sitting next to you. And if you say anything that's off, even a little, he's going to jump in or give you the side eye.

00:15:41 ◼   ► And, you know, that's his job. But I would say, you know, I think that puts the clamps down a little bit.

00:15:46 ◼   ► And I'm not, I'm not saying the whole thing is a setup to get them to talk about stuff that they're not.

00:15:51 ◼   ► I'm saying that I think that there's benefit Apple gets in these venues and that it's a net positive for them.

00:15:57 ◼   ► And for whatever reason, they've decided either that it's not a net positive for them or they're going to punish one of the people who writes about them because he wrote something fair, but unfavorable about them.

00:16:10 ◼   ► But, you know, as John has handled it, and I think as a professional, how you have to handle it is you're not entitled.

00:16:16 ◼   ► Like other people can complain about it, but John's response is, okay.

00:16:20 ◼   ► I mean, it's their right to say yes or no.

00:16:24 ◼   ► And none of us are entitled to any level of access or connection with Apple.

00:16:29 ◼   ► And, you know, Apple does what it wants.

00:16:32 ◼   ► So, I mean, it could be as simple as Apple knows the knives are out this year.

00:16:38 ◼   ► And it doesn't think that anything can be gained from taking the blows from anybody in any venue.

00:16:43 ◼   ► That's entirely possible that we will see nothing outside of presentations from Apple this year because they know how controversial this is going to be.

00:16:52 ◼   ► And they just don't see it.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Or it could be that somebody in PR has a bee in the bonnet about that one piece from Gruber.

00:16:59 ◼   ► And they're like, why are we helping him?

00:17:00 ◼   ► Get him out.

00:17:01 ◼   ► We'll find out, right?

00:17:02 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:17:02 ◼   ► That happens too.

00:17:03 ◼   ► I think it's a short-sighted move.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Like, I think if you're deciding not to do this because you're upset about the way that the community is upset with you or you're aware of that and you think that's a risk, don't hide.

00:17:20 ◼   ► It's an opportunity to turn it around, isn't it?

00:17:22 ◼   ► This is your opportunity to talk to the community.

00:17:25 ◼   ► When you do something like this, you're putting the wall up.

00:17:28 ◼   ► And I think that that is the exact wrong thing to be doing from my perspective.

00:17:32 ◼   ► But, of course, I would say that.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Not knowing what they might be very specifically worried about, I would say broadly, I think that's a venue that helps them and doesn't hurt them.

00:17:43 ◼   ► And that them not going to it seems like it's actually a net negative for Apple.

00:17:50 ◼   ► But, again, they may have some other reason for doing it.

00:17:55 ◼   ► Or if it is really just to lash out, it's self-defeating.

00:17:59 ◼   ► If they really hated John, they wouldn't invite him to the keynote either.

00:18:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:02 ◼   ► Right?

00:18:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I expect that I'll be very close to John Gruber in a week's time, right?

00:18:07 ◼   ► Like, as we sit down.

00:18:08 ◼   ► I think it is what you're saying, where they think that, oh, there's nothing for us to gain here.

00:18:12 ◼   ► It's like, I understand why you would think that, but I think it is the wrong approach.

00:18:17 ◼   ► Unless they've replaced it with something and we just don't know what it is yet.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And, like, maybe they want to talk to someone else.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Like, I don't know.

00:18:24 ◼   ► And we'll find out how the week goes.

00:18:26 ◼   ► We'll find out.

00:18:27 ◼   ► Because they did another interview last year.

00:18:29 ◼   ► They did.

00:18:30 ◼   ► And that was in the Steve Jobs Theater.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:33 ◼   ► And that, so that was on their venue with their invite list.

00:18:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:38 ◼   ► They could do that again.

00:18:39 ◼   ► And if they do that again, I think that's interesting.

00:18:41 ◼   ► That wasn't made publicly available, though, was it?

00:18:44 ◼   ► It wasn't.

00:18:45 ◼   ► No.

00:18:45 ◼   ► Well, this thing, it was just for the press to see.

00:18:47 ◼   ► So, you know, it's possible.

00:18:49 ◼   ► My prediction is that they're not going to do any of that.

00:18:51 ◼   ► But who knows?

00:18:54 ◼   ► All right.

00:18:54 ◼   ► All right.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Let's get to the draft.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Okay.

00:18:56 ◼   ► These are the rules.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Remember, we have a different rule set for WWDC, which was brought in last year.

00:19:01 ◼   ► It was a wave of genius by Jason.

00:19:02 ◼   ► And here we are.

00:19:03 ◼   ► So, for WWDC, there are 14 rounds with 28 overall picks.

00:19:09 ◼   ► Yeah, baby.

00:19:10 ◼   ► The picks are chosen from a predetermined list of choices, which we have agreed would

00:19:14 ◼   ► be verifiable on screen and not ridiculously obvious in our opinion.

00:19:17 ◼   ► Each host must draft at least one pick from each of the following categories.

00:19:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I went easy here.

00:19:33 ◼   ► I thought about doing two from each.

00:19:34 ◼   ► But this is the information we have even of guessing what's going to be at this event is

00:19:42 ◼   ► it feels very much tougher.

00:19:45 ◼   ► And so, I kind of backed off.

00:19:47 ◼   ► We do have to spread five picks around.

00:19:49 ◼   ► And then we also have an other category.

00:19:51 ◼   ► And all of the rest of the picks can come from wherever.

00:19:54 ◼   ► But we've got to do one at least about redesign, iOS, iPad, Vision, and AI.

00:19:58 ◼   ► Yeah, we have picks that are for macOS, WatchOS, StageCraft, everything.

00:20:02 ◼   ► But they're not defined picks that we need to make.

00:20:06 ◼   ► Yeah, not mandatory.

00:20:07 ◼   ► The winner of the previous draft gets first pick.

00:20:09 ◼   ► That is me.

00:20:10 ◼   ► For an item to count in scoring, it has to be announced on stage or on a slide during the

00:20:15 ◼   ► presentation itself.

00:20:16 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett will adjudicate, in case of a scoring stalemate, there are no partial points

00:20:20 ◼   ► awarded.

00:20:21 ◼   ► The points awarded on the episode are final.

00:20:23 ◼   ► They will be finalized during the scoring segment of next week's show.

00:20:27 ◼   ► In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question.

00:20:29 ◼   ► The challenger gets the pick of the tiebreaker question.

00:20:33 ◼   ► The champion has to go over, under, or whatever it is we choose for the tiebreaker question,

00:20:39 ◼   ► whatever Jason picks.

00:20:41 ◼   ► The winner becomes draft champion, displays the champion pennant.

00:20:44 ◼   ► The loser becomes draft challenger and displays the challenger pennant.

00:20:49 ◼   ► If you would like your own upgrade draft tee, you can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:20:55 ◼   ► Today, Jason, I added some new styles of t-shirt and colors because I wanted to do that.

00:21:01 ◼   ► I also, because I was there, I made a Lawyer Up t-shirt.

00:21:04 ◼   ► So there is now a Lawyer Up t-shirt if you want that because I wanted it.

00:21:09 ◼   ► And so there are more colors in our t-shirts.

00:21:11 ◼   ► We should look into the possibility if we have any sort of summer of fun themed stuff that we

00:21:15 ◼   ► can put on the on-demand store.

00:21:17 ◼   ► That might be nice.

00:21:18 ◼   ► That's a good idea.

00:21:19 ◼   ► We should look at that.

00:21:19 ◼   ► But yeah, we have, we have, there's a Lawyer Up t-shirt, a Rubber Roundup t-shirt, two upgrade

00:21:25 ◼   ► logo t-shirts and a draft t-shirt.

00:21:27 ◼   ► Cotton Bureau, who we work with, they have this new premium heavyweight t-shirt, which I love.

00:21:34 ◼   ► And I wanted some upgrade t-shirts in that, with that t-shirt.

00:21:38 ◼   ► So you can go get those, add some new colors.

00:21:40 ◼   ► That's at upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:21:42 ◼   ► These are all on demand.

00:21:43 ◼   ► You can buy them at any time.

00:21:44 ◼   ► So go and check them out.

00:21:47 ◼   ► In 2025, there's been just one draft and it was one that we did, the Paternick draft,

00:21:52 ◼   ► which I want and continue my challenging reign.

00:21:55 ◼   ► Apple did surprising things with the MacBook Air and therefore you want a draft.

00:21:59 ◼   ► Correct.

00:22:00 ◼   ► Correct.

00:22:00 ◼   ► Hey, look, often it's like that.

00:22:03 ◼   ► Often that's how it goes.

00:22:05 ◼   ► That one was funny because it's literally Apple, that was the reason, is Apple did some surprising

00:22:10 ◼   ► things to me, to the MacBook Air, and that was it.

00:22:12 ◼   ► And then we waited for you to come back.

00:22:15 ◼   ► They did some surprising things to the iPad Air where they wrapped it when we weren't expecting it.

00:22:21 ◼   ► It's true.

00:22:21 ◼   ► It's true.

00:22:22 ◼   ► We have drafted for WWDC nine times.

00:22:26 ◼   ► Jason has won four of those and I have won five of those.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Jason, what is the tiebreaker question?

00:22:33 ◼   ► The tiebreaker question, as always, is the complete length of the presentation from start to finish.

00:22:41 ◼   ► This is not the countdown or anything like that, but it's when the video starts that does whatever

00:22:46 ◼   ► probably wacky comedy segment they start with and ends when they say goodbye and they have

00:22:52 ◼   ► the credits and the credits end.

00:22:54 ◼   ► And then that's the end.

00:22:56 ◼   ► In past years, last year it was an hour 43.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Two years ago it was 2.06.

00:23:02 ◼   ► 2022, it was 1.48.

00:23:07 ◼   ► 2021, it was 1.46.

00:23:10 ◼   ► And Mike, I'm going to make you choose over or under one hour and 46 minutes.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Under.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:22 ◼   ► All right.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Now there's a, so this is the thing.

00:23:24 ◼   ► There's only been one in the last four years under 1.46.

00:23:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:29 ◼   ► It was last year when they had Apple intelligence.

00:23:32 ◼   ► And, and the thought is there's less, right?

00:23:36 ◼   ► I would be really surprised if it was longer, uh, because of Apple, who knows, but I'm going

00:23:43 ◼   ► with under, under an hour and 46.

00:23:45 ◼   ► That's my, uh, choice.

00:23:48 ◼   ► So, all right, that's our tiebreaker.

00:23:50 ◼   ► Uh, if you would like to score along, uh, with us next week, you can go to upgrade.cards.

00:23:55 ◼   ► Thank you to Zoe Knox, who puts together those wonderful interactive scorecards, so you can

00:24:00 ◼   ► score along with us.

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00:25:14 ◼   ► So now begins the WWDC draft.

00:25:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:20 ◼   ► All right.

00:25:20 ◼   ► What do you think is going to happen, Mike?

00:25:22 ◼   ► I know.

00:25:22 ◼   ► For my first pick, I'm going to go with Apple renames the new OSes to a calendar year.

00:25:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:31 ◼   ► That is my first pick.

00:25:32 ◼   ► I'm not picking from one of the mandatory categories.

00:25:35 ◼   ► This has been one of the big pieces of news in the last week.

00:25:39 ◼   ► This is a Mark Gurman joint, as many of the picks will be, I'm sure.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Mark Gurman joints.

00:25:44 ◼   ► So this is the idea that it will be, I guess, iOS 26 would be the assumption.

00:25:49 ◼   ► It would be really weird if they called it iOS 25 because the operating system will only

00:25:54 ◼   ► be available for like two or three months before the calendar change is over.

00:25:57 ◼   ► This is fantastic.

00:25:59 ◼   ► I'm super happy about this if it happens because I have this year in preparing for things had

00:26:05 ◼   ► to Google too often what is the current version of iOS because I just can't remember anymore.

00:26:10 ◼   ► You made a great joke that I'm going to steal for you, which is I think on Blue Sky maybe

00:26:15 ◼   ► or on Mastodon.

00:26:16 ◼   ► You said, I've been waiting for this for iOS 18 years, which I thought was fantastic.

00:26:20 ◼   ► I actually originally made that joke in our chat between you and me and Steven.

00:26:25 ◼   ► And then I liked it enough that I recycled it on social media.

00:26:31 ◼   ► That's when you know it's good.

00:26:32 ◼   ► I mean, I've been saying this for years that they should call the iPhones this and maybe

00:26:36 ◼   ► they will.

00:26:37 ◼   ► Maybe this is just the beginning of that.

00:26:39 ◼   ► It's possible.

00:26:41 ◼   ► This is a thing that Mark Gurman is very sure about.

00:26:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:46 ◼   ► And so the question would be why do we think this is not obvious?

00:26:51 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:26:52 ◼   ► This seems pretty big and it's marketing and we have to trust Mark Gurman.

00:26:56 ◼   ► In some areas I do trust him and I think he's probably right here, but I didn't feel certain

00:27:02 ◼   ► enough about this to let it completely fall off the track.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Rumor does not mean obvious and we've spoken about this before.

00:27:07 ◼   ► One of the hardest things to get right is the marketing.

00:27:09 ◼   ► This can change at any point.

00:27:11 ◼   ► All they have to do is just change some logos on slides.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Like it doesn't, this is not set by any means, but I think it would be fascinating and I really

00:27:20 ◼   ► want it to happen.

00:27:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:23 ◼   ► All right.

00:27:23 ◼   ► Well, we will see.

00:27:24 ◼   ► That was my also first pick.

00:27:27 ◼   ► It feels like a good gimme.

00:27:29 ◼   ► I don't know why, but.

00:27:30 ◼   ► It does.

00:27:31 ◼   ► It does.

00:27:31 ◼   ► It does.

00:27:31 ◼   ► Okay, Mike, I am going to go with a design pick.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Oh.

00:27:37 ◼   ► And I am going to pick new design features differently shaped icons.

00:27:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:27:50 ◼   ► That's all.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Differently shaped icons.

00:27:53 ◼   ► Can you just, just for the sake of conversation and also just to like define this pick differently

00:27:58 ◼   ► to what, like to squares.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Differently to what they currently are, which is the familiar round rack.

00:28:04 ◼   ► So we could be talking circles.

00:28:06 ◼   ► They could be squares with pointy edges.

00:28:08 ◼   ► It could be circles.

00:28:09 ◼   ► It could be, they could be lots of stuff, right?

00:28:12 ◼   ► Yes.

00:28:12 ◼   ► I just think differently.

00:28:14 ◼   ► And features, by the way, I should also define as not necessarily only that, right?

00:28:23 ◼   ► But like that, that is one of the things you can do with the new design.

00:28:26 ◼   ► You might even be able to make the icons different shapes, including a familiar shape.

00:28:31 ◼   ► But I'm putting this down as they will, they will mess with the icon shape.

00:28:36 ◼   ► Do you, I mean, there's no way of really answering this now, but do you have any sense

00:28:42 ◼   ► of why they would do this?

00:28:43 ◼   ► Like, why do you think they would do this?

00:28:44 ◼   ► Change the look, make it feel fresh, give people options.

00:28:48 ◼   ► I, I, my, my gut feeling is it's a customization thing and that you'll be able to do things

00:28:54 ◼   ► with icons and that there'll be more flexible for users.

00:28:57 ◼   ► And it won't necessarily be that Apple has mandated that all icons be circular or something

00:29:02 ◼   ► like that, but that they be, you know, that what we may be hearing about icons being different

00:29:06 ◼   ► is more of a, you customize the look to make it how you want to look taken even further.

00:29:12 ◼   ► I kind of feel like maybe a little bit of what macOS used to be like, which is like,

00:29:17 ◼   ► hey, you can do whatever you want now.

00:29:19 ◼   ► Like these are just PNGs.

00:29:20 ◼   ► You just, however it comes out is how it comes out.

00:29:22 ◼   ► Maybe so.

00:29:23 ◼   ► That'd be fun.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Maybe so.

00:29:24 ◼   ► I will say this was not on my shortlist, this one.

00:29:28 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:29:28 ◼   ► Because.

00:29:29 ◼   ► I feel like that was the, the, the strongest signal of all of the design rumors.

00:29:33 ◼   ► So that's the one I went with.

00:29:34 ◼   ► The reason I didn't pick it is it was the same reason that I, that I didn't necessarily

00:29:39 ◼   ► think they would do the dark mode changes the way that they did them, but they did do them

00:29:44 ◼   ► this way.

00:29:44 ◼   ► So I'm, I'm probably going to be wrong here too, which is just, I think it can be difficult

00:29:48 ◼   ► for, for Apple to try and mandate to brands what they should do with their brand, but you

00:29:53 ◼   ► know, it's a choice.

00:29:55 ◼   ► Yeah, they did it.

00:29:56 ◼   ► So you're probably right.

00:29:56 ◼   ► They did it with making every icon green and, and, and people that haven't, can't see our

00:30:01 ◼   ► list of redesign options, guessing features of a redesign is really hard, which is good

00:30:07 ◼   ► because we haven't seen it.

00:30:08 ◼   ► We haven't seen anything yet, which is good.

00:30:10 ◼   ► This is literally the one I liked the best of that whole list and we have to pick one.

00:30:17 ◼   ► So there it is.

00:30:18 ◼   ► All right.

00:30:18 ◼   ► I'm going to, I'm going to pick my redesign one now because we're in it because I moved

00:30:23 ◼   ► it up.

00:30:23 ◼   ► So we might as well talk about it.

00:30:24 ◼   ► So my redesign pick is that the new design sees floating tab bars in Apple's apps.

00:30:31 ◼   ► They tried to do this once, right?

00:30:33 ◼   ► For the Safari tab bar.

00:30:34 ◼   ► This is the Safari floating tab bar.

00:30:36 ◼   ► So like the tab bars at the bottom of an application, you know, when you go like say a music where

00:30:41 ◼   ► you're going between like for you and new, like these will now be floating elements that

00:30:46 ◼   ► you see UI go behind, right?

00:30:49 ◼   ► And they just float on the top and they're not like attached to the sides of the screen

00:30:53 ◼   ► anymore.

00:30:53 ◼   ► They're kind of just these like little things that flow on top of the UI and that the UI

00:30:58 ◼   ► goes behind them and kind of glassy.

00:31:01 ◼   ► They kind of did this on the iPad, but it's not there on the iPhone.

00:31:03 ◼   ► On what app?

00:31:07 ◼   ► On a bunch of, a bunch of their apps, including music on the iPad.

00:31:11 ◼   ► There is a floating tab bar.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Oh, that's the thing that goes at the top.

00:31:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:15 ◼   ► That's not at the bottom on the iPhone.

00:31:16 ◼   ► I think there are places where they have this little thing, but I think that this is going

00:31:22 ◼   ► to be a more significant thing across the system where you see it.

00:31:26 ◼   ► You've changed the pick from what it was in the document.

00:31:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:29 ◼   ► New design sees floating tab bars in iPhone apps.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:32 ◼   ► Well that, you know, okay.

00:31:33 ◼   ► I'm still sticking with what I'm saying.

00:31:34 ◼   ► Because they're already, they're already in iPad apps.

00:31:37 ◼   ► And it shouldn't have been in the pick document.

00:31:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:39 ◼   ► No, no.

00:31:39 ◼   ► I think this is a better, I mean, you specified it.

00:31:41 ◼   ► I'm just kind of making it on your specification.

00:31:44 ◼   ► We know what this is.

00:31:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:45 ◼   ► I think that this is something that they tried to do in a specific way that did not work.

00:31:51 ◼   ► And since there's been lots of designers that have given their interpretation of how this

00:31:57 ◼   ► could be done, I think this is going to be a pretty key part of app design, including like

00:32:04 ◼   ► the standard tools that you see in SwiftUI are all going to look like this.

00:32:08 ◼   ► Like, I think this is going to be one of the big things in the redesign.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:13 ◼   ► I see what you're saying.

00:32:14 ◼   ► I just wanted to specify, like, obviously the iPad stuff is there and it's not new.

00:32:19 ◼   ► We're looking for something new involving floating tab bars as a concept.

00:32:23 ◼   ► So I think that that's, that's it.

00:32:24 ◼   ► We get it.

00:32:25 ◼   ► We get what this is.

00:32:25 ◼   ► With the iPad thing, though, you don't, I mean, I'm just, just checking.

00:32:28 ◼   ► You don't see the content behind, right?

00:32:30 ◼   ► Like it just sits on top.

00:32:32 ◼   ► No, I think you do see some content behind as it scrolls up the top.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:37 ◼   ► I mean, this is helped by the fact that nobody uses that on iPad.

00:32:41 ◼   ► Like it's, so that didn't work.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Other than Apple, but yeah.

00:32:43 ◼   ► Yeah, that, that, that didn't, that didn't really work.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Okay.

00:32:46 ◼   ► I am going to go with another, uh, Mark Gurman rumored feature that I continue to think, you

00:32:54 ◼   ► know, again, is not obvious and I'm not sure it's going to happen, but there's going to be

00:32:59 ◼   ► a lot of that in this draft because it is the squishiest, weirdest draft I've, I've had in a

00:33:04 ◼   ► while, I think, um, I'm going to choose AI based power or battery management feature.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Is this a category pick for you?

00:33:12 ◼   ► This is my iOS official pick.

00:33:17 ◼   ► Um, cause that's where we slotted it.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Yep.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Um, and the idea here is as Mark Gurman has reported it is that Apple is trying to use some new stuff

00:33:34 ◼   ► to optimize power and battery management and it's machine learning or AI, you can call it whatever

00:33:40 ◼   ► you want.

00:33:40 ◼   ► But the idea there is that it's, it's got a new system that allows devices that are running

00:33:44 ◼   ► this new OS to last longer or be put in a mode where they last longer and that they will extol the

00:33:50 ◼   ► virtues of that.

00:33:51 ◼   ► The danger here to me is that they have this feature and they're not going to talk about it

00:33:56 ◼   ► until the new iPhones come out this fall.

00:33:58 ◼   ► But Mark Gurman seems really high on this as a feature.

00:34:01 ◼   ► And I kind of like, I like the idea of Apple saying, look what we do for you.

00:34:06 ◼   ► We've got a smarter, cause right now they've got low, low power mode, right?

00:34:10 ◼   ► That's it.

00:34:11 ◼   ► So this is, this is something that might not even be on by default, but it's the, we have

00:34:15 ◼   ► a smarter feature that lets you intelligently use less battery life and maybe they turn it

00:34:20 ◼   ► on by default and it's like, seriously, you won't notice it's watching in the background

00:34:26 ◼   ► and all of our phones get an extra, you know, whatever percent battery life.

00:34:30 ◼   ► So that's, that's the idea there.

00:34:32 ◼   ► The potential too, is if there is a phone coming out this year of a smaller battery in the iPhone

00:34:39 ◼   ► air, this will be a part of a feature that will be really needed for that product if the

00:34:44 ◼   ► battery is actually with a lower capacity.

00:34:46 ◼   ► So it makes a lot of sense.

00:34:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:48 ◼   ► But it's a, it's a thing you could still talk about now and, and make some hay with

00:34:54 ◼   ► because it's an AI feature that is actually, I think Apple's best kind of AI feature, which

00:35:00 ◼   ► is a super targeted functionality that is aided by machine learning algorithms, right?

00:35:06 ◼   ► Like it's what we would have just called a machine learning feature a few years ago.

00:35:09 ◼   ► Yes, exactly.

00:35:10 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:35:11 ◼   ► I don't think you're having a conversation with the battery.

00:35:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:15 ◼   ► They can say AI or ML or whatever they want, but we know what it is.

00:35:17 ◼   ► They'll say AI, Jason.

00:35:18 ◼   ► They'll say AI.

00:35:19 ◼   ► Don't you worry about that.

00:35:20 ◼   ► Apple intelligence is watching your battery.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Apple intelligence is saving you battery life.

00:35:25 ◼   ► I am actually now going to make my, uh, Apple intelligence, uh, category pick.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:35:31 ◼   ► And say developers get to use Apple's models in their apps.

00:35:37 ◼   ► Uh, so this has been another, another, another Mark Garman joint.

00:35:41 ◼   ► I mean, this to me is maybe the best story they could tell, uh, at WWDC this year around

00:35:50 ◼   ► Apple intelligence to say, Hey, developers, all of you out there who we want to impress and

00:35:57 ◼   ► get you on board with our technologies this year, you're all trying to find ways to integrate

00:36:03 ◼   ► AI in some way.

00:36:04 ◼   ► Well, what if we give you a free environmentally conscious way of using our on-device models

00:36:10 ◼   ► to power simple features of your applications?

00:36:13 ◼   ► You know, like there are many, like, for example, like let's say you use a to-do, to-do application

00:36:20 ◼   ► and you would like to, uh, categorize some, like say like what happens in the reminders app,

00:36:25 ◼   ► right?

00:36:26 ◼   ► Like, and a reminder does this on its own using its own machine learning, right?

00:36:29 ◼   ► You know, where you have like a shopping list and it can put them into the categories.

00:36:33 ◼   ► What if I said, you could, as a to-do list application maker, you could now do this thanks to ample

00:36:38 ◼   ► intelligence and that can just be inside of your application.

00:36:40 ◼   ► Or what if, you know, you, you make a read it later app and you would like to add a summary

00:36:46 ◼   ► to the top of every article.

00:36:47 ◼   ► That's the best example.

00:36:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:49 ◼   ► Anybody, cause you know, mail does that now, but like any app could, uh, hand some content

00:36:55 ◼   ► to the model and say, give me a summary to put in this, in this view, in my app.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Like that's great.

00:37:00 ◼   ► And, and we can talk about the state of Apple's models.

00:37:02 ◼   ► I suspect that they've gotten better behind the scenes.

00:37:05 ◼   ► Who knows what they're going to ship, but, um, regardless of that, not letting app developers

00:37:10 ◼   ► have access to it is bad.

00:37:11 ◼   ► So I think this is a great feature and I hope it happens.

00:37:14 ◼   ► Yep.

00:37:14 ◼   ► Oh boy.

00:37:18 ◼   ► Um, it's already getting tough.

00:37:20 ◼   ► It's already getting tough.

00:37:22 ◼   ► Oh man.

00:37:22 ◼   ► This is good.

00:37:22 ◼   ► This is going to be, this is what we want with the draft.

00:37:25 ◼   ► You, you, you, you always say this to me, like you want to draft, but there's not a

00:37:29 ◼   ► lot of information beforehand.

00:37:30 ◼   ► We are, we've got maybe one or two more picks, which could be gleaned from rumors and then

00:37:35 ◼   ► we're just in it.

00:37:36 ◼   ► We're just, we're just in it.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:39 ◼   ► In the spirit of that, I'm going to make my vision OS pick right now, Mike, which is scrolling

00:37:44 ◼   ► with your eyes.

00:37:46 ◼   ► Really?

00:37:46 ◼   ► Okay.

00:37:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:49 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:50 ◼   ► Scrolling with your eyes.

00:37:50 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:51 ◼   ► I mean, Mark Gurman says it's happening.

00:37:52 ◼   ► I don't know what it means.

00:37:54 ◼   ► I, my guess is that it's not as weird as we think it is, but it might be weirder than

00:37:59 ◼   ► we think it is.

00:38:00 ◼   ► I just, I feel like they're going to have to make some vision OS announcements and Mark

00:38:04 ◼   ► Gurman is pretty on board with this and it, it will in practice probably not be as big a

00:38:11 ◼   ► deal as it seems like it might be, but you got to mention something with vision OS, right?

00:38:16 ◼   ► So I'm going to pick scrolling with your eyes.

00:38:21 ◼   ► Uh, my next pick is going to be my iPad OS pick.

00:38:24 ◼   ► Okay.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Uh, iPad desktop mode with menu, a more Mac-like design.

00:38:31 ◼   ► I don't even really think this is going to happen, but if I, if I have to make an iPad OS

00:38:37 ◼   ► pick, this is the one I'm going to make.

00:38:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:41 ◼   ► Well, that, um, that's a, that was probably going to be my pick.

00:38:47 ◼   ► And I thought, I don't know how positive I feel about this.

00:38:50 ◼   ► This is look, we've talked about this a lot on this podcast.

00:38:54 ◼   ► And, and in the context of drafts is really where it comes to a head, which is, are you

00:38:59 ◼   ► doing this?

00:38:59 ◼   ► Cause you want it because you think it would be interesting if it happens or because you

00:39:03 ◼   ► think it's actually going to happen.

00:39:05 ◼   ► And let me tell you when it's a thing that you've been deep down in for a long time, it

00:39:10 ◼   ► becomes very hard to tell.

00:39:12 ◼   ► It's like, I can't tell, which is why I'm glad you made this pick.

00:39:15 ◼   ► I can't tell if I believe that this is going to happen.

00:39:18 ◼   ► Mark Gurman has said he is our premier source for Apple information.

00:39:22 ◼   ► Mark Gurman has said that without a doubt, this is going to happen.

00:39:26 ◼   ► And I, I kind of don't believe it only because I've been hurt before and I don't want to be

00:39:34 ◼   ► hurt again.

00:39:34 ◼   ► Right.

00:39:35 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:39:38 ◼   ► I want to believe, I want to believe that we're going to get a Mac desktop or an iPad

00:39:42 ◼   ► desktop mode.

00:39:42 ◼   ► That's more Mac like, and that has a menu bar.

00:39:44 ◼   ► I want to see it.

00:39:45 ◼   ► I would be, that would be one of the highlights of WWDC.

00:39:48 ◼   ► If we finally got a bunch of things that make us think, Oh, what does make us rethink what

00:39:55 ◼   ► Apple thinks the iPad is for?

00:39:56 ◼   ► That would be great to talk about.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Great to think about giving us something to talk about, right?

00:40:01 ◼   ► That we love talking about.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:04 ◼   ► What does the iPad mean now that it has a menu bar?

00:40:06 ◼   ► Like, what does that say about Apple's ambitions?

00:40:08 ◼   ► That would be amazing.

00:40:10 ◼   ► And yet part of me, just it, there's just,

00:40:12 ◼   ► a little part of me that's just saying, it'll never happen.

00:40:16 ◼   ► So I'm glad you picked it.

00:40:19 ◼   ► And I will say like Zoe has brought this up in the discord.

00:40:23 ◼   ► We've had somebody who's been persistently writing interconnected under the name, not Mark

00:40:27 ◼   ► Gehrman, that has been giving us information about this for ages.

00:40:31 ◼   ► And so he's like, I want that person to be vindicated.

00:40:34 ◼   ► And so do I, because that would be incredible.

00:40:36 ◼   ► If really, we could have been breaking this news in some form for months, because they reported

00:40:43 ◼   ► on this before Mark Gehrman did.

00:40:44 ◼   ► And we thought it was a joke from this person.

00:40:47 ◼   ► Yeah, right, right.

00:40:48 ◼   ► But we'll find out.

00:40:50 ◼   ► I would love it.

00:40:51 ◼   ► I wouldn't love it because then I'm going to end up buying a magic keyboard, which I don't

00:40:54 ◼   ► really want to buy.

00:40:55 ◼   ► I know.

00:40:56 ◼   ► But I don't have one because I don't like how big and heavy it makes my iPad.

00:40:59 ◼   ► I like that my iPad is incredibly thin and light.

00:41:02 ◼   ► Yep.

00:41:03 ◼   ► But I don't know why I could use track pads, but you know, the experience is going to be

00:41:06 ◼   ► best with the magic keyboard.

00:41:07 ◼   ► So I would end up in that spot.

00:41:10 ◼   ► Well, with you picking that exciting iPad pick, I'm going to then pick a much more boring pick

00:41:16 ◼   ► that I think is definitely going to happen, which is a new Apple Pencil related feature

00:41:22 ◼   ► is announced.

00:41:23 ◼   ► Is it a reed calligraphy pen, Mike?

00:41:26 ◼   ► It might be.

00:41:27 ◼   ► Mark Gehrman can't stop talking about the reed calligraphy pen.

00:41:32 ◼   ► But you know what?

00:41:33 ◼   ► It's a feature.

00:41:35 ◼   ► This is one of those things where reed calligraphy pen for me is what robotic arm is for you.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Because what is a reed calligraphy pen?

00:41:46 ◼   ► Like, I don't know what that thing is that Mark keeps saying, but he keeps saying it.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:53 ◼   ► I have a theory, by the way.

00:41:54 ◼   ► And I don't know if this is related to what Apple's thinking or what Mark Gehrman's thinking

00:41:59 ◼   ► about the calligraphy pen that he keeps calling it a reed calligraphy pen.

00:42:03 ◼   ► Because a calligraphy pen is a thing, and there isn't a tool like that in the Apple Pencil.

00:42:07 ◼   ► So they could make one, and that would be cool.

00:42:08 ◼   ► Yeah, but reed calligraphy is incredibly specific when it's probably just a calligraphy pen.

00:42:16 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:16 ◼   ► I have, I have, here's my, here's my wacky, unlikely to be true, where my brain went about this.

00:42:23 ◼   ► Which is, when Steve Jobs was at Reed College, he took a calligraphy class, and that's what taught him about the importance of fonts.

00:42:32 ◼   ► And so when I hear reed calligraphy, I think that's a Steve Jobs reference.

00:42:38 ◼   ► I'm broken that way.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:40 ◼   ► I mean, it does mean, like, you take a piece of bamboo and you cut it in half.

00:42:44 ◼   ► That's not what they mean.

00:42:46 ◼   ► No.

00:42:46 ◼   ► They mean Steve Jobs.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:48 ◼   ► It's a Steve Jobs salute.

00:42:49 ◼   ► Let's just go with it.

00:42:50 ◼   ► It's a Steve calligraphy pen.

00:42:51 ◼   ► I mean, is that a better answer than reed calligraphy pen as a new feature of the iPad?

00:42:55 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:42:56 ◼   ► Whatever.

00:42:56 ◼   ► All right.

00:42:59 ◼   ► I get, I get any new Apple Pencil related feature here, though.

00:43:02 ◼   ► I'm just want to, I'm putting, I'm putting some chips down on the Apple Pencil, right?

00:43:05 ◼   ► Some OS feature that features the Apple Pencil in some way.

00:43:09 ◼   ► That's all.

00:43:09 ◼   ► But I think it's the reed calligraphy pen, if I'm picking.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:14 ◼   ► I guess my, my thought on this is usually they keep that for when they have new iPads, but we don't expect new iPads this year.

00:43:22 ◼   ► They did math notes.

00:43:22 ◼   ► So they may, they may just do it, do it here.

00:43:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:25 ◼   ► That would make sense.

00:43:26 ◼   ► If they have nothing, if they don't have an iPad thing to show, they might just do it here.

00:43:30 ◼   ► But yeah, math notes.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Love it.

00:43:31 ◼   ► All right.

00:43:32 ◼   ► My fifth pick is.

00:43:35 ◼   ► In the UK localization, is it called math notes?

00:43:38 ◼   ► It's actually not, you know, although it should be.

00:43:42 ◼   ► Well, that's because math notes is hard to say.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Yeah, because it sucks.

00:43:44 ◼   ► That sucks.

00:43:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:45 ◼   ► It's actually math note.

00:43:47 ◼   ► Just do one of them.

00:43:48 ◼   ► What?

00:43:49 ◼   ► You only get one.

00:43:49 ◼   ► Attorneys general?

00:43:51 ◼   ► You only get one.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Only get one.

00:43:54 ◼   ► Apple announces a partnership with Google for AI features is my fifth pick, where this

00:44:00 ◼   ► isn't so much based on a rumor.

00:44:01 ◼   ► It's based on something Sundar Pichai said and what Craig Federighi said a year before.

00:44:06 ◼   ► Also, friend of the show, one true John John Voorhees sent me a link this morning, which I

00:44:11 ◼   ► don't completely agree with, but I thought was an interesting take, which I will share here.

00:44:15 ◼   ► So, there was an article this morning that Samsung is getting ready to sign a deal with

00:44:20 ◼   ► perplexity for some AI features in their version of Android.

00:44:25 ◼   ► But the interesting thing about that is Google and Samsung have a very big partnership with

00:44:31 ◼   ► Gemini.

00:44:32 ◼   ► And what John said is, well, what if they've done this because Apple and Google are about

00:44:37 ◼   ► to start working more closely together, which I thought was a good take from John Voorhees,

00:44:43 ◼   ► which, because I was quite surprised to read this perplexity news because of just how

00:44:50 ◼   ► integrated Google and Samsung are right now.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Potentially, Google and Apple are about to start working together again, maybe.

00:45:01 ◼   ► I don't know, though, but I at least think we're going to see Gemini get the same treatment

00:45:07 ◼   ► that OpenAI get.

00:45:09 ◼   ► I think that that is the likely scenario, is not that Google is all in on this.

00:45:14 ◼   ► Because, again, that would be, I mean, I know we live in this world now.

00:45:18 ◼   ► Like, both of the smartphone platforms use Gemini.

00:45:23 ◼   ► Like, that seems not going to be legal, right?

00:45:28 ◼   ► Well, I mean, they all use Google, though, right?

00:45:30 ◼   ► Like, they all have Google embedded in them in some way.

00:45:33 ◼   ► It's all there, right?

00:45:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:45:36 ◼   ► I mean, but that's a problem that's led to legal issues.

00:45:39 ◼   ► I feel like the truth is going to be that Google is going to be, well, Google as a search is

00:45:46 ◼   ► a choice.

00:45:46 ◼   ► I think Google being an AI source in the iPhone is a thing that will happen.

00:45:51 ◼   ► I don't think it's going to be like an exclusive where only Google gets access to certain parts

00:45:56 ◼   ► of the OS.

00:45:57 ◼   ► I think it's going to be that Google will be plugged in, like ChatGPT is plugged in, like

00:46:02 ◼   ► other partners might be plugged in.

00:46:04 ◼   ► And that it's like, all comers, right?

00:46:07 ◼   ► Anybody can do it.

00:46:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:08 ◼   ► Will be the pitch, I think.

00:46:11 ◼   ► There is a potential that, like, maybe both ChatGPT and Gemini are here, but also they have

00:46:20 ◼   ► more access to the system than they do currently.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Like, and that this might be like a slow rolling where, hey, any AI provider can contact us and

00:46:29 ◼   ► we can look at it.

00:46:30 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:46:31 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:32 ◼   ► I'm going to stick with Apple Intelligence.

00:46:37 ◼   ► And I am going to go with, oh, this is one that I didn't have on my list.

00:46:45 ◼   ► I think I overlooked it and I'm going to pick it, which is, I'm switching right as we talk.

00:46:50 ◼   ► I'm going to go with AirPods Live Translate.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Okay.

00:46:53 ◼   ► Which is a feature, again, reported on a lot that it's out there.

00:46:59 ◼   ► Everyone does this, too.

00:47:01 ◼   ► I think the fact that everybody else does this, the idea that you'll be wearing AirPods and

00:47:05 ◼   ► they'll be listening and they'll be translating it in your ears into your language is a thing

00:47:11 ◼   ► that, yeah, it's been demoed elsewhere.

00:47:12 ◼   ► It's a thing that should be on the AirPods.

00:47:14 ◼   ► If this is a good time to do it, you say, and it also, an AirPods feature announced in

00:47:19 ◼   ► beta is awesome.

00:47:20 ◼   ► And you know why, Mike?

00:47:22 ◼   ► It's because we'll spend the entire summer having the endless conversations of how you

00:47:26 ◼   ► force a software update on AirPods.

00:47:28 ◼   ► That's my favorite thing to discuss in the summer is how you force a beta firmware onto AirPods.

00:47:34 ◼   ► Just keep tapping.

00:47:36 ◼   ► Just turn them off and on and put them in and out and figure it out and then magic happens.

00:47:43 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:47:44 ◼   ► Anyway, live translation feature for AirPods.

00:47:46 ◼   ► That's my pick.

00:47:48 ◼   ► All right.

00:47:48 ◼   ► For those that are keeping track so far, we have both picked from the redesign category.

00:47:53 ◼   ► Jason has picked an iOS pick.

00:47:56 ◼   ► We've both picked an AI thing.

00:47:59 ◼   ► Jason has picked Vision OS and we've both picked iPad OS.

00:48:03 ◼   ► So I still have to pick Vision OS and iOS in the category.

00:48:09 ◼   ► So you've done all your category picks now, right?

00:48:13 ◼   ► Redesign iOS, iPad OS, Vision OS, AI.

00:48:15 ◼   ► I think you've done them all.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Looks like.

00:48:17 ◼   ► I have not.

00:48:18 ◼   ► And that, I will say, Jason, was my plan.

00:48:21 ◼   ► I'm not.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Oh, good.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Good, good, good, good.

00:48:23 ◼   ► I'm not going to be tricked here.

00:48:23 ◼   ► Although my iOS pick was the one that you picked.

00:48:27 ◼   ► I was going to pick the AI-based power management figure, but I was trying to push some of them

00:48:31 ◼   ► off to later in the game.

00:48:32 ◼   ► Let's see if this gameplay pays off for me.

00:48:34 ◼   ► We will.

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00:50:40 ◼   ► All right.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Round six now of the draft.

00:50:44 ◼   ► Here's a feature that I want to exist.

00:50:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:50:56 ◼   ► AI coaching in the health or fitness app.

00:51:02 ◼   ► So, I have long been frustrated with Apple's health app because it has so much data about

00:51:12 ◼   ► me, but does such a terrible job of telling me what to do with that information.

00:51:18 ◼   ► Amen.

00:51:19 ◼   ► Like, their training load feature.

00:51:22 ◼   ► I don't understand what it is attempting to tell me.

00:51:27 ◼   ► What does well above mean?

00:51:29 ◼   ► Is that good or is it bad?

00:51:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:32 ◼   ► I know what it's trying to do, but it basically is a feature for people who are extremely serious

00:51:38 ◼   ► athletes.

00:51:39 ◼   ► But it just, I just think that like, it's not, it doesn't, and this is the same as like the

00:51:43 ◼   ► trend information.

00:51:44 ◼   ► Like, they have so much information and they will say to me like, hey, this has changed over

00:51:50 ◼   ► the last 10 weeks.

00:51:51 ◼   ► And like, I asked myself, is this good?

00:51:54 ◼   ► Like, is this a good change?

00:51:56 ◼   ► Like, what is the change?

00:51:58 ◼   ► And so, I have been for months and months and months wearing a Whoop band.

00:52:02 ◼   ► You may have seen it if you watch our video.

00:52:03 ◼   ► The Whoop band that I have, like, I'm not sure about it.

00:52:07 ◼   ► Like, Whoop as a company, at least with the version that I have, it seems like the function

00:52:12 ◼   ► is focused way more around very athletic people.

00:52:16 ◼   ► They actually have a new version, which seems to cater a bit more to the type of person

00:52:22 ◼   ► I am, where I just want to know about my health.

00:52:24 ◼   ► And I'm considering changing.

00:52:25 ◼   ► There's been a bunch of controversy with Whoop, but like, whatever.

00:52:27 ◼   ► But one of the things they have in the app, like, they do do a much better job of saying

00:52:33 ◼   ► there's, it's like, you, this happened to you overnight, so you may feel good or bad today.

00:52:40 ◼   ► Like, they'll tell you that in the morning in the application.

00:52:43 ◼   ► And I really like that feature, but they also have an AI chat inside of the app where

00:52:49 ◼   ► I can ask it questions about what's going on with me.

00:52:51 ◼   ► And that's fine, whatever.

00:52:53 ◼   ► What I want is Apple to just take all the information it has about me from my Apple Watch and tell

00:53:00 ◼   ► me clearly in plain English what it means.

00:53:04 ◼   ► And if Apple intelligence has to be the way that I get that, fantastic, because I just want

00:53:10 ◼   ► that information.

00:53:11 ◼   ► So I really hope that this is something that they have.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:53:15 ◼   ► So it's a wish casting pick.

00:53:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:17 ◼   ► But it is out there.

00:53:18 ◼   ► It's a feature that has been reported as existing or being worked on.

00:53:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:23 ◼   ► That may be a WWDC or may not be.

00:53:25 ◼   ► This is a thing that Mark Gurman called AI doctor at one point and people lost their minds,

00:53:30 ◼   ► but I don't think it is that.

00:53:31 ◼   ► I don't think it is.

00:53:32 ◼   ► I think there is an AI doctor and that's a different feature.

00:53:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I know because you put it as two picks.

00:53:39 ◼   ► I think this is not two features.

00:53:42 ◼   ► This is the same feature you get.

00:53:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:53:45 ◼   ► I don't think it is, but maybe.

00:53:47 ◼   ► I mean, it's a tabletop robot, Mike.

00:53:51 ◼   ► You never know.

00:53:51 ◼   ► I'll just tell you, I'm going to do to you what you do to me every time, which is I'm going

00:53:57 ◼   ► to get really excited about a pick and then you say, I didn't even have that on my list.

00:54:01 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:01 ◼   ► Because I didn't even have that on my list, but you know, I want it to exist too.

00:54:07 ◼   ► I do.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Sometimes you care about a sound subsystem in iPadOS.

00:54:12 ◼   ► Sometimes you care about AI coaching, you know?

00:54:15 ◼   ► I'm going to make what we have called a meta pick, a stagecraft pick.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:23 ◼   ► And it's a gamble, but I can't, I don't think they can not do this.

00:54:31 ◼   ► My sixth pick in the draft, I am picking.

00:54:34 ◼   ► Apple explicitly acknowledges falling short in its AI promises.

00:54:41 ◼   ► Pick number six?

00:54:41 ◼   ► Wow.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Wow.

00:54:44 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:45 ◼   ► I don't think, I don't think they can not address it.

00:54:48 ◼   ► I think they will say, my guess is it'll be something like, we have a bunch of great Apple

00:54:54 ◼   ► intelligence announcements.

00:54:55 ◼   ► We recognize we haven't shipped some of our features that we promised you last year.

00:55:00 ◼   ► We are confident that we're going to have them shipping this fall.

00:55:04 ◼   ► It might be that simple, but I think they're not, I don't think they can go through the whole

00:55:08 ◼   ► presentation, not mentioning that they promised features last year and didn't deliver them.

00:55:13 ◼   ► I'm not expecting an apology, although an apology would certainly count here.

00:55:17 ◼   ► I'm expecting an explicit acknowledgement that they fell short in last year's promises

00:55:22 ◼   ► in some way.

00:55:23 ◼   ► And it could be, like I said, as simple as we realize we didn't ship these in time for this

00:55:29 ◼   ► year, but they're coming in the fall or something like that.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Like they'll put their positive spin on it, but I don't think they can, and maybe I'm wrong,

00:55:36 ◼   ► but I don't think they can pretend that everything's fine when they talk about Apple intelligence.

00:55:42 ◼   ► I think they need to at least acknowledge that some of the features that they announced were not shipping.

00:55:47 ◼   ► And especially because I expect they will mention that they are going to be shipping this fall.

00:55:53 ◼   ► So it might be as coy as like, they took a little bit longer than we expected.

00:55:58 ◼   ► And everybody who's there watching the video in person will be like tittering, right?

00:56:02 ◼   ► Like, hee hee hee.

00:56:03 ◼   ► But something.

00:56:04 ◼   ► I just, I think they have to.

00:56:06 ◼   ► I think they cannot.

00:56:09 ◼   ► It will not be a surprise to me if they just ignore it.

00:56:13 ◼   ► But I am going to bet that they can't completely ignore it.

00:56:18 ◼   ► And they have to at least tip their hat to it.

00:56:20 ◼   ► I agree with your logic.

00:56:22 ◼   ► But I don't think I could assume that they would do it.

00:56:27 ◼   ► The reason for me why I'm unsure about this.

00:56:31 ◼   ► I don't think they can talk about these features again until they can tell you they know they're coming.

00:56:35 ◼   ► And I'm not convinced they know they're coming.

00:56:38 ◼   ► That's that's my thing.

00:56:40 ◼   ► There is some reporting.

00:56:41 ◼   ► I mean, I think I think they have said and German has said that the goal is to ship those features in the fall.

00:56:47 ◼   ► Oh, I'm sure that those features in the fall.

00:56:49 ◼   ► Jason, the goal was to ship them last fall.

00:56:51 ◼   ► I know.

00:56:52 ◼   ► I know.

00:56:52 ◼   ► I know.

00:56:52 ◼   ► But well, no, the goal was never to ship them last fall.

00:56:54 ◼   ► Someone had a goal.

00:56:56 ◼   ► The goal was to ship them this spring and then they failed at it.

00:56:59 ◼   ► I think App Intense is a good example where that that is a feature.

00:57:03 ◼   ► I don't know about like personal context and knowing your mom is flying in and stuff like that.

00:57:07 ◼   ► But I feel like App Intense is a thing that they will probably commit to.

00:57:12 ◼   ► If it's just App Intense, I could see that skipping the keynote.

00:57:17 ◼   ► It could be.

00:57:19 ◼   ► It could be.

00:57:19 ◼   ► But again, I'm just I'm just putting down that when they break the seal on Apple intelligence,

00:57:23 ◼   ► they're going to have to acknowledge in the most spinny way possible, acknowledge that

00:57:29 ◼   ► they that they didn't ship all of it and that that that's the you know, basically what we're

00:57:33 ◼   ► saying is, are they going to flinch?

00:57:34 ◼   ► Are they going to flinch?

00:57:35 ◼   ► Are they going to wink?

00:57:36 ◼   ► Are they going to sweat a little or are they going to pretend that everything is great and

00:57:40 ◼   ► they did everything right?

00:57:41 ◼   ► And we'll see.

00:57:42 ◼   ► Here's here's the thing that I can imagine happening.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Right.

00:57:44 ◼   ► And now Apple intelligence.

00:57:46 ◼   ► Our customers love the features that we shipped last year and then move on.

00:57:51 ◼   ► Right.

00:57:51 ◼   ► Like that's it.

00:57:53 ◼   ► And they didn't happen.

00:57:54 ◼   ► I can't see it.

00:57:54 ◼   ► I can't see it.

00:57:55 ◼   ► I can't see that.

00:57:58 ◼   ► I hope you're right.

00:57:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:01 ◼   ► Pick number seven.

00:58:03 ◼   ► New features for Genmoji.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:11 ◼   ► What are those new features, Mike?

00:58:15 ◼   ► Well, okay.

00:58:16 ◼   ► So the pick is new features for Genmoji.

00:58:18 ◼   ► That's the pick, right?

00:58:19 ◼   ► Yep.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Here's what I think.

00:58:21 ◼   ► I could imagine there are maybe new ways to make them.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Maybe they get kind of more like an image playgrounds, you kind of think.

00:58:30 ◼   ► You can give it a bit more direction than you currently get.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Maybe you can choose some styles.

00:58:35 ◼   ► I could imagine a scenario where they're animated in some way and maybe they do things.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Again, don't fully know.

00:58:45 ◼   ► Maybe you would be able to have a bit more of a construction in the way that you do it.

00:58:50 ◼   ► Maybe you can pick two emoji that actually exist and say, combine these for me and make it do this.

00:58:57 ◼   ► I think Genmoji is maybe the only thing that they made that I can imagine got some traction because of the way that they implemented it.

00:59:07 ◼   ► And so I could imagine them pushing that one a little bit further this year.

00:59:12 ◼   ► If they touch any of the existing Apple intelligence features at all, I think Genmoji could be the one that gets some updates.

00:59:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:19 ◼   ► I mean, it's a good, I don't know if I've seen anything about this, but I think that it's-

00:59:23 ◼   ► No, this is a Mike thinks this.

00:59:25 ◼   ► This is where we are in the draft.

00:59:27 ◼   ► Talking about Apple revising existing Apple intelligence features from last year with improvements that are probably based on model improvements, I think is a good approach.

00:59:40 ◼   ► I think that that's a good approach.

00:59:43 ◼   ► There may very well be things like that that are not really rumored that Mark Gurman doesn't necessarily have a lot of vision into because they are probably coming from a group that's doing other stuff and, you know, he's going to miss things.

00:59:56 ◼   ► And I think so Genmoji is a good feature.

00:59:59 ◼   ► So having it, having them sort of double down on that and add more features to it and improving it via the model, I think that's a good guess.

01:00:08 ◼   ► I'm specifically saying here just for this, it's not like there are improvements and then that's it.

01:00:15 ◼   ► Like there has to be some new stuff you can do with Genmoji you can't currently do.

01:00:18 ◼   ► That's my pick.

01:00:19 ◼   ► Okay.

01:00:20 ◼   ► I'm going to pick an incredibly boring pick.

01:00:23 ◼   ► Love it.

01:00:23 ◼   ► This is my, I believe in Mark Gurman pick.

01:00:26 ◼   ► This is a feature that is so minor, but I think it's real.

01:00:32 ◼   ► I think he can't stop talking about it.

01:00:35 ◼   ► And I think it will be pitched actually in an interesting ish sort of way.

01:00:40 ◼   ► And that is captive Wi-Fi sync.

01:00:43 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:00:44 ◼   ► So boring.

01:00:45 ◼   ► I know.

01:00:46 ◼   ► I know it's so boring, but I, but he won't stop talking about it.

01:00:49 ◼   ► And I think, I think this is a feature that is there and that they will say at least in passing.

01:00:55 ◼   ► And the idea is it's already really great that your devices and you can share with friends how to log into a very, you know, a Wi-Fi password, right?

01:01:07 ◼   ► Like you can share that.

01:01:08 ◼   ► The idea behind captive Wi-Fi sync is if you have to connect to Wi-Fi and then there's a page that comes up and you have to log into that.

01:01:16 ◼   ► What this feature will allow you to do is you do that once and all your other devices will be able to do it, which is very interesting.

01:01:23 ◼   ► I think especially for Apple TV.

01:01:26 ◼   ► So I think this might actually be an Apple TV feature, but it's a, but it's also an ecosystem feature.

01:01:34 ◼   ► If you do it in one place, it will log you in to the captive portal everywhere, which is a nice bit of functionality.

01:01:40 ◼   ► I don't think they're going to do a whole, let's talk about Wi-Fi, captive Wi-Fi sync.

01:01:45 ◼   ► But this, German's level of certainty that this is happening leads me to believe that it will be mentioned.

01:01:53 ◼   ► This might even be on a slide, but I feel like it's going to happen.

01:01:57 ◼   ► So I'm going to put it in my list.

01:01:59 ◼   ► All right.

01:02:03 ◼   ► So we're on to pick eight.

01:02:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:07 ◼   ► I'm going to do my iOS pick now.

01:02:10 ◼   ► Okay.

01:02:11 ◼   ► Which is refinements to the lock screen design in iOS.

01:02:14 ◼   ► Is this, I feel like this was literally something that we did last year and it's still here.

01:02:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:21 ◼   ► But my thought is.

01:02:23 ◼   ► More refinements.

01:02:24 ◼   ► It's a redesign, right?

01:02:27 ◼   ► If they're going to do a redesign, we're going to touch the lock screen design is something.

01:02:31 ◼   ► Because the lock screen is, is a, is a good, right?

01:02:34 ◼   ► It is good.

01:02:35 ◼   ► People like it.

01:02:36 ◼   ► They did.

01:02:37 ◼   ► They've done a good job over the years of updating it.

01:02:39 ◼   ► If they're going to redesign the system, I think like the home screen would get some changes.

01:02:44 ◼   ► The lock screen should get some changes too.

01:02:47 ◼   ► So this is, this is my question, which is if they do a whole redesign of the OS, but the lock screen might look a little different, but functionally isn't any different.

01:02:59 ◼   ► You don't get this pick, right?

01:03:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:01 ◼   ► You've got to be able to do something different with it than what you can currently do.

01:03:04 ◼   ► Right.

01:03:04 ◼   ► That might be like.

01:03:05 ◼   ► Because we know what it can do now.

01:03:07 ◼   ► Let's imagine, here's a thing that, that they could do that they don't do.

01:03:11 ◼   ► Use Apple intelligence in some way to create a lock screen wallpaper for you, right?

01:03:16 ◼   ► That would be a refinement to the lock screen function.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

01:03:21 ◼   ► That doesn't exist right now.

01:03:22 ◼   ► Sure.

01:03:22 ◼   ► Based on, based on your text, whatever.

01:03:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I would give you that.

01:03:25 ◼   ► That, that's like.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Okay.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Here's what I'll say.

01:03:27 ◼   ► I just.

01:03:28 ◼   ► Because it may be an easier way to put this.

01:03:29 ◼   ► There has to be something new in the customized area of the lock screen, right?

01:03:35 ◼   ► So when you go into the, like, I'm going to the lock screen and I'm going to customize it, there's got to be some options there that don't currently exist.

01:03:43 ◼   ► Is that.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Okay.

01:03:44 ◼   ► We'll call it new, new, new way to customize lock screen design in iOS.

01:03:47 ◼   ► From a, from a clearing up perspective, that, that would get better get us where I am.

01:03:51 ◼   ► Not like, oh, look, the clock looks different.

01:03:54 ◼   ► So I get that one.

01:03:55 ◼   ► That's not what I'm talking about.

01:03:55 ◼   ► That's a different typeface because it's using the new typeface that's used everywhere or whatever.

01:03:59 ◼   ► Like, no, that's not it.

01:04:00 ◼   ► That's not it.

01:04:01 ◼   ► Okay.

01:04:03 ◼   ► That's my iOS pick.

01:04:04 ◼   ► Just, I'm not sure I said that.

01:04:06 ◼   ► That's my iOS pick.

01:04:06 ◼   ► So I still, I still have a vision OS pick to do.

01:04:09 ◼   ► And then I've done all my five.

01:04:11 ◼   ► Okay.

01:04:12 ◼   ► I am going to grab something that I wasn't intending to, but I liked, I'm inspired by your Genmoji pick.

01:04:18 ◼   ► I'm going to pick image playgrounds updated to create much improved images.

01:04:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:24 ◼   ► This is literally, surely their image generation model got better.

01:04:28 ◼   ► Right?

01:04:29 ◼   ► Right?

01:04:30 ◼   ► Right?

01:04:31 ◼   ► I made an, I made an image playgrounds image a few days ago to troll someone, which is all I, anyone really could use it for.

01:04:40 ◼   ► And I just looked at it and I was like, what is, what is going on here?

01:04:43 ◼   ► I think it was you.

01:04:44 ◼   ► I think I was trolling you specifically or Steven, one of the two of you.

01:04:48 ◼   ► It's basically all I ever do with it is just send one to our group chat.

01:04:52 ◼   ► It's so bad, man.

01:04:54 ◼   ► It's just so bad.

01:04:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:55 ◼   ► It's so bad.

01:04:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:00 ◼   ► My next pick.

01:05:01 ◼   ► Apple announces a partnership with an AI provider other than Google or OpenAI.

01:05:07 ◼   ► This, I think this is, is risky, but super intriguing and may happen.

01:05:14 ◼   ► I want it to happen.

01:05:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:16 ◼   ► I think I put this in there.

01:05:17 ◼   ► Yeah, you did.

01:05:18 ◼   ► I think it's, I think it's a, a thing that could happen and we really just don't know.

01:05:21 ◼   ► Here's what I think this is.

01:05:23 ◼   ► This is anthropic for Xcode.

01:05:27 ◼   ► That's what I think this is because Swift Assist never shipped.

01:05:31 ◼   ► They just, it didn't ship and they've not spoken about it.

01:05:36 ◼   ► And we have heard that internally they're using Claude in Xcode.

01:05:42 ◼   ► So maybe this is something that gets out there.

01:05:46 ◼   ► Is that a public facing feature?

01:05:48 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:48 ◼   ► That's, that's the question.

01:05:50 ◼   ► I think you get this pick if they mentioned that in China, they're adding somebody else's

01:05:56 ◼   ► LLM.

01:05:56 ◼   ► Yeah, which they've not done.

01:05:57 ◼   ► But I also could imagine that it's not just Google, right?

01:06:00 ◼   ► And that like perplexity gets in or somebody else.

01:06:03 ◼   ► So that's, that's what I'm going with.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I think that's a good pick.

01:06:07 ◼   ► I just don't, again, I think it's just a coin flip.

01:06:09 ◼   ► I think it's probability.

01:06:10 ◼   ► It's, I don't, I think it could very well happen.

01:06:13 ◼   ► I don't know if it will happen.

01:06:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:15 ◼   ► There's a, there's a pick somewhere else that maybe one of us will make or one of us

01:06:18 ◼   ► won't, but there is a possibility that they add AI search to Safari.

01:06:24 ◼   ► And if they do that, they've got partnerships left, right, and center at that point.

01:06:27 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:30 ◼   ► For sure.

01:06:30 ◼   ► Okay.

01:06:32 ◼   ► I'm going to go back to vision OS, believe it or not, which I've scrolled with my eyes.

01:06:36 ◼   ► Oh man, he's going to take, I know you're going to take, I'm in trouble.

01:06:40 ◼   ► No!

01:06:41 ◼   ► This is, this is, I did see where it's the spoilers for what I'm about to say, Mike.

01:06:45 ◼   ► I am going to say at least one, this is a great one.

01:06:51 ◼   ► You put it in there.

01:06:52 ◼   ► At least one first party vision OS app that was, uh, that was previously an iPad app.

01:06:57 ◼   ► So, so to explain this, when Apple shipped the vision pro and vision OS, there are a whole

01:07:02 ◼   ► bunch of Apple apps.

01:07:03 ◼   ► They didn't bother making run on vision OS.

01:07:05 ◼   ► They're like, yeah, it's iPad compatibility layer.

01:07:08 ◼   ► That's enough.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Which is, I think in a real indictment.

01:07:10 ◼   ► I mean, I know that it was hard.

01:07:12 ◼   ► They had to launch a whole product, but like, it's a real indictment that some of those apps

01:07:15 ◼   ► did not get converted.

01:07:16 ◼   ► So what I'm saying is they will mention or show on a slide or whatever, that at least

01:07:22 ◼   ► one of Apple's apps that's not currently a vision OS app, native vision OS app on vision

01:07:28 ◼   ► OS, but is an iPad emulation will become a native, uh, vision OS app.

01:07:33 ◼   ► I left it too long.

01:07:34 ◼   ► It was going to be my next pick and it was going to be my vision OS pick.

01:07:37 ◼   ► I left it too long.

01:07:38 ◼   ► And now I'm in trouble.

01:07:40 ◼   ► All right.

01:07:40 ◼   ► Now you're in trouble.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Because I need, and I have to make my vision OS pick now.

01:07:43 ◼   ► You don't.

01:07:46 ◼   ► Or I could keep picking.

01:07:48 ◼   ► I mean, I have to pick it now in case you take one of the other two that I think could

01:07:53 ◼   ► happen.

01:07:55 ◼   ► I have more than two, but like, if I don't go for it now, I'm, I'm, I'm just.

01:07:59 ◼   ► This is why we do the mandatory picks.

01:08:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:00 ◼   ► I'm making it worse and worse for myself.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:08:03 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:08:04 ◼   ► There.

01:08:04 ◼   ► Okay.

01:08:05 ◼   ► So I have two picks that I'm currently trying to decide between.

01:08:09 ◼   ► One of them is something I think can happen.

01:08:14 ◼   ► One of them is something that had been previously rumored, but hasn't happened.

01:08:19 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:08:22 ◼   ► And I think the reason that it was previously rumored and hasn't happened might be why it

01:08:27 ◼   ► still won't happen.

01:08:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:29 ◼   ► I, so let me say about this little list that people can't see, but like on our list of vision

01:08:33 ◼   ► OS, I actually think, because we don't know a lot about vision OS.

01:08:35 ◼   ► I think there are a large number of things on this list that could happen, but not, none

01:08:41 ◼   ► of them we're certain will happen.

01:08:43 ◼   ► Right.

01:08:44 ◼   ► We, we basically came up with a list with the obvious things you could do to improve vision

01:08:48 ◼   ► OS, but which ones did they do?

01:08:51 ◼   ► We don't know.

01:08:52 ◼   ► So it is on that level.

01:08:53 ◼   ► It is a pure kind of informed guessing game that, that is in the absence of people like

01:08:59 ◼   ► Mark Gurman would be what the entire draft was like.

01:09:01 ◼   ► All right.

01:09:01 ◼   ► So, you know, you take a chance.

01:09:03 ◼   ► Here's what I'm going to go with.

01:09:04 ◼   ► I'm not going to go with the one that was previously rumored and I'm going to try and

01:09:07 ◼   ► use some logic here.

01:09:08 ◼   ► So one of the vision OS two updates included the ability for you to access the home controls

01:09:15 ◼   ► and the control center controls with a hand gesture.

01:09:18 ◼   ► Yes.

01:09:19 ◼   ► The fact that they added that in tells me that there's been time spent since vision OS one

01:09:24 ◼   ► where they've had to rethink how you use the operating system.

01:09:27 ◼   ► And they were like, this one's so good.

01:09:29 ◼   ► We're going to ship it now.

01:09:31 ◼   ► But I don't think that would be the only one.

01:09:33 ◼   ► So my vision OS pick is new hand gestures for controlling vision OS.

01:09:41 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:42 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:42 ◼   ► Hand gestures.

01:09:43 ◼   ► That is, yeah, that's the logical, they did it last year.

01:09:46 ◼   ► Would they do more of that?

01:09:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:48 ◼   ► So I think it's, I think it's possible, you know, the longer you use this thing, the maybe

01:09:54 ◼   ► the more thoughts you have and like, maybe there's a different way to do window management

01:09:59 ◼   ► with some kind of gesture that we've, that they've not thought of until now.

01:10:03 ◼   ► So that's, that's what I'm going to go with something about navigating or using the system

01:10:07 ◼   ► in some way with a new gesture.

01:10:09 ◼   ► And like, so to put it into context, the gesture is if you hot, like you hold your hand out

01:10:13 ◼   ► and pinch your, your, your, uh, if you hold your hand out, you get this little circle that

01:10:19 ◼   ► appears.

01:10:19 ◼   ► And if you tap, it will take you home.

01:10:21 ◼   ► If you turn it over, um, you can then access the control center.

01:10:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:26 ◼   ► It gives you the time.

01:10:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:27 ◼   ► We can hold, you can access control center.

01:10:29 ◼   ► It's very, very clever.

01:10:30 ◼   ► It's actually a really nice addition.

01:10:31 ◼   ► Uh, design.

01:10:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:33 ◼   ► It's really good.

01:10:34 ◼   ► Uh, I think that's good.

01:10:36 ◼   ► I think that's a good thing to hope for.

01:10:38 ◼   ► And I had it on my list of possibilities.

01:10:41 ◼   ► All right.

01:10:41 ◼   ► So I've now hit all of my required categories too.

01:10:45 ◼   ► Great.

01:10:45 ◼   ► I've done with the categories.

01:10:47 ◼   ► Great.

01:10:47 ◼   ► I've got to say, I think that took longer than last year to get, to get all the categories

01:10:51 ◼   ► done.

01:10:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:52 ◼   ► That's good.

01:10:53 ◼   ► I like it.

01:10:53 ◼   ► All right.

01:10:55 ◼   ► I'm going to go back to Apple intelligence related items.

01:10:58 ◼   ► And I, I mentioned this earlier as a thing that could trigger my explicitly acknowledged as

01:11:03 ◼   ► falling short pick.

01:11:04 ◼   ► I'm going to mention it here because I think this is a feature that they, that they like,

01:11:07 ◼   ► and they're going to mention, even though it's more of a developer thing and it'll definitely

01:11:11 ◼   ► happen in the state of the union.

01:11:12 ◼   ► I think it will get mentioned in some way on a slide or in a conversation about Apple

01:11:17 ◼   ► intelligence, which is app intense.

01:11:19 ◼   ► I think app intense are going to be mentioned.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Okay.

01:11:21 ◼   ► And that's my pick is app intense mentioned app intense is really interesting.

01:11:24 ◼   ► It is this really aggressive expansion of what you could do with shortcut stuff in third

01:11:29 ◼   ► party apps.

01:11:30 ◼   ► They really want to evangelize people on it, not because of shortcuts necessarily, but because

01:11:35 ◼   ► that allows Apple intelligence to also use features of apps.

01:11:39 ◼   ► And it's a thing that many third party developers are like, I don't know if I want to do that.

01:11:43 ◼   ► So one of the ways that Apple, you know, one of Apple's priorities needs to be to

01:11:49 ◼   ► encourage and evangelize the use of app intense.

01:11:52 ◼   ► So if it says, Oh, we're going to, this fall, we're going to do all this expanded app intense

01:11:56 ◼   ► stuff.

01:11:56 ◼   ► It's going to be great.

01:11:57 ◼   ► That's what I think they're going to do.

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01:13:50 ◼   ► So now we're in the home stretch.

01:13:54 ◼   ► Yeah, we are.

01:13:55 ◼   ► Number 11.

01:13:57 ◼   ► Yes.

01:13:58 ◼   ► Okay.

01:13:59 ◼   ► So I'm going to do a redesign.

01:14:01 ◼   ► I'm going back to the redesign here.

01:14:04 ◼   ► So one of the ways in which people customize their phones is with their wallpapers.

01:14:12 ◼   ► It's like the key indication that you are making of what you want your phone to look

01:14:17 ◼   ► like, right?

01:14:18 ◼   ► There's been a lot of conversation about translucency with the design and vision OS and

01:14:27 ◼   ► there's a lot of really wild things that people are suggesting for how your apps can look

01:14:32 ◼   ► translucent and it will take the colors from the world.

01:14:34 ◼   ► No, I don't think it's taken the colors from the world.

01:14:36 ◼   ► I don't even really know if I think it's translucent.

01:14:39 ◼   ► What I think is going to happen is that the apps that you use will be able to take colors

01:14:45 ◼   ► from your wallpaper and put that into the apps.

01:14:50 ◼   ► So you will see like a tint of a color from your wallpaper inside of applications.

01:14:58 ◼   ► So it's not necessarily translucent.

01:15:00 ◼   ► There might be a bit of that too.

01:15:02 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:15:03 ◼   ► But my pick is that there will be like certain color tints or hints and things like that taken

01:15:10 ◼   ► from your wallpaper in the applications that you use.

01:15:13 ◼   ► So if I've got a green background, there's going to be a little subtle kind of green things

01:15:17 ◼   ► in my apps.

01:15:18 ◼   ► And if I've got a blue background, there's going to be a little subtle blue things.

01:15:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:20 ◼   ► That sort of thing.

01:15:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:22 ◼   ► Android has been doing this for years.

01:15:23 ◼   ► It's their material design thing.

01:15:25 ◼   ► You only see this if you use a Google Pixel, really.

01:15:29 ◼   ► But they have a thing where like you can customize it, but by default, it will start to like, you

01:15:35 ◼   ► know, it will show certain controls, widgets and stuff like that.

01:15:39 ◼   ► And inside of applications, it will take the colors of your home, your home wallpaper.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Okay.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Well, I'm going to go, this is more stagecraft, but he did it last year.

01:15:55 ◼   ► And so I'm going to, I'm going to appeal to consistency on the part of Apple and say that

01:16:00 ◼   ► before we get into all the OS details, Tim can't help himself and he's going to plug Apple

01:16:05 ◼   ► TV plus.

01:16:06 ◼   ► This might be a good time to do it because Apple TV has been on a real tear this year.

01:16:10 ◼   ► Right.

01:16:10 ◼   ► Right.

01:16:11 ◼   ► I mean, last year he was just like, before we get started, I want to talk about Apple TV

01:16:15 ◼   ► plus.

01:16:15 ◼   ► It's really awesome.

01:16:16 ◼   ► Here's a trailer.

01:16:17 ◼   ► And then they just did the rest of the event.

01:16:18 ◼   ► It's like, I mean, do that again.

01:16:20 ◼   ► Maybe, I don't know if he will or not, but he did it last year and it would not be a bad

01:16:24 ◼   ► time to do it.

01:16:24 ◼   ► And they're on a roll.

01:16:25 ◼   ► So, and they did, it was a combination of like stuff that they had done that was really

01:16:29 ◼   ► hot and also the new stuff that they were going to be coming out with in the fall.

01:16:33 ◼   ► So they had a lot to go with there.

01:16:35 ◼   ► And I think it's, I, yeah, I, I, Tim plugs Apple TV plus.

01:16:38 ◼   ► Let me just get a clarification point because they might do this.

01:16:41 ◼   ► If they show a trailer for the F1 movie and say it's coming to theaters, does this

01:16:46 ◼   ► count?

01:16:46 ◼   ► Oh, that is, that is a good question.

01:16:50 ◼   ► I would say this doesn't count because the call to, call to action there is go to the

01:16:55 ◼   ► movies, not subscribe to Apple TV plus.

01:17:00 ◼   ► Oh, that, that is a, that is a real question.

01:17:04 ◼   ► Cause we know that they're going to really flog F1.

01:17:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:07 ◼   ► Right.

01:17:07 ◼   ► I feel like if they, I'm going to keep it, I'm going to keep it because what it suggests

01:17:12 ◼   ► is if all they do is plug F1, I don't get it.

01:17:14 ◼   ► But if they plug a bunch of stuff that they're working on, including F1, or even he shows

01:17:19 ◼   ► an F1 trailer, he says, and of course all of our great stuff on TV plus, that's enough.

01:17:22 ◼   ► Like the idea here is that TV plus as a service gets mentioned in the middle of the developer

01:17:26 ◼   ► keynote as a, you know, not as a mention in a slide deep in, but like as Tim saying, you

01:17:33 ◼   ► know, so much great stuff, we've won so many awards and the F1 movie is coming like plugs

01:17:37 ◼   ► Apple TV plus is really all I'm going for here.

01:17:39 ◼   ► I'm not saying shows a trailer or anything that specific, but like takes a moment out

01:17:43 ◼   ► of the developer keynote to talk about his TV service.

01:17:46 ◼   ► But if they just show a trailer for the movie and they're like, go to the movies, see the

01:17:51 ◼   ► movie, that doesn't, then I don't get it.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Cool.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Then I don't get it.

01:17:54 ◼   ► All right.

01:17:56 ◼   ► Although if he says, go see it in the movies and then later it'll be on Apple TV plus,

01:18:01 ◼   ► I'm going to take it.

01:18:02 ◼   ► Yeah, that counts.

01:18:02 ◼   ► But I, if they, if he does that, that's a mistake.

01:18:06 ◼   ► I think it's very possible.

01:18:06 ◼   ► If he does that, he has made a mistake.

01:18:08 ◼   ► In theaters, see it in theaters.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Absolutely.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:12 ◼   ► Yep.

01:18:12 ◼   ► I think that that would be a mistake if he's like, goes, Hey, look, go to the movies or

01:18:17 ◼   ► just wait.

01:18:17 ◼   ► It's like, Oh no, Tim, you've messed up.

01:18:19 ◼   ► You've messed up.

01:18:20 ◼   ► No one's going to go.

01:18:21 ◼   ► All right.

01:18:22 ◼   ► Oh boy.

01:18:24 ◼   ► We're at the point now where I have 13 items and I don't feel confident about any of

01:18:32 ◼   ► them.

01:18:32 ◼   ► So like I make my own little list, right?

01:18:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Same.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:36 ◼   ► My confident items are gone.

01:18:38 ◼   ► I had 14 of them.

01:18:41 ◼   ► They're all gone.

01:18:41 ◼   ► So in power on this weekend, Mark Gurman spoke about using Apple intelligence to create shortcuts.

01:18:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:51 ◼   ► So I'm going to pick that shortcuts can be created with AI assistance.

01:18:55 ◼   ► I don't even know what that means.

01:18:57 ◼   ► That, that is interesting because, because he did, he did this interesting thing, which

01:19:04 ◼   ► I think points to his maybe lack of knowledge of exactly what Apple's going to do, where he

01:19:08 ◼   ► knows certain features are in the mix for this cycle.

01:19:12 ◼   ► And it used to be that features in the mix for this cycle would either be in or out for

01:19:21 ◼   ► WWDC, but what Mark Gurman has reported is Apple got so burned last year that they're not going

01:19:28 ◼   ► to announce some features that might still be in the cycle, right?

01:19:31 ◼   ► That they will announce features that they have a high likelihood of shipping in the fall.

01:19:36 ◼   ► And then, and if there's a feature that might make it in the winter or the spring, I think

01:19:41 ◼   ► this is good.

01:19:41 ◼   ► They are not going to announce it, but it might still happen later.

01:19:46 ◼   ► And this is one of those features where he's like, they're working on this, you know, being

01:19:51 ◼   ► able to generate shortcuts from a prompt so that, you know, it's, you know, it's automation

01:19:58 ◼   ► with guidance.

01:19:59 ◼   ► They're working on that.

01:20:01 ◼   ► That might be a feature this year.

01:20:03 ◼   ► It's, he said, probably not something they're going to announce, but who knows, right?

01:20:07 ◼   ► He doesn't even seem to know.

01:20:09 ◼   ► So, um, interesting feature.

01:20:12 ◼   ► Yes, for sure.

01:20:13 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:20:14 ◼   ► Oh, I enjoy analyzing your picks and then I turn around and I have to make picks.

01:20:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:22 ◼   ► It's fun to just talk about other people and then you're on the hook, you know?

01:20:26 ◼   ► I am going to say, so here's the thing.

01:20:29 ◼   ► There is all this talk about how there's going to be an Apple game app.

01:20:33 ◼   ► And we put in a couple of things that are the names of it.

01:20:37 ◼   ► Although I'm not convinced that either of those is actually the name of it.

01:20:40 ◼   ► I have a wild theory about what they're going to do.

01:20:43 ◼   ► That isn't one of our choices.

01:20:45 ◼   ► Um, should I tell you that now?

01:20:48 ◼   ► Should I do that now?

01:20:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:49 ◼   ► I mean, is this, are you actually making a pick or you just want to talk about something?

01:20:53 ◼   ► I am making a game pick.

01:20:55 ◼   ► I'm making a game related pick.

01:20:56 ◼   ► Okay.

01:20:57 ◼   ► So the rumor is Apple's going to do a whole new app about games.

01:21:00 ◼   ► And it's basically what used to be in game center when it was an app, but also other stuff

01:21:06 ◼   ► like that, that for whatever reason, it's not just, it's not just Apple arcade on the Mac.

01:21:10 ◼   ► They're going to be like things that are outside and it's games.

01:21:12 ◼   ► It's not just things that are in Apple arcade.

01:21:14 ◼   ► It'll be things that are out of Apple arcade.

01:21:16 ◼   ► And, um, what's it going to be called was one of the things that we had in our picks.

01:21:21 ◼   ► And there's Apple, it'll be called Apple games.

01:21:24 ◼   ► And I put in, it'll be called game center, which is a name they already use.

01:21:30 ◼   ► I think that those are both quite possible, but it occurred to me this morning that the

01:21:38 ◼   ► other way they could go is they could call it Apple arcade.

01:21:42 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:21:43 ◼   ► And rename the service Apple arcade plus.

01:21:47 ◼   ► Oh, Jason, that's genius.

01:21:49 ◼   ► Right.

01:21:50 ◼   ► That's really good.

01:21:51 ◼   ► Cause I, uh, we were talking about it on connected last week and I said Apple games and I thought

01:21:58 ◼   ► to myself, Apple arcade is a great name, but they already use it.

01:22:01 ◼   ► I didn't think about, yes, like the TV, there is Apple TV and Apple TV plus news plus is inside

01:22:09 ◼   ► Apple news.

01:22:10 ◼   ► So you call create Apple arcade and say, now our service inside the arcade app is called arcade

01:22:17 ◼   ► plus.

01:22:17 ◼   ► Unless Jason, they make it Apple games and Apple games plus, but they could also do that.

01:22:22 ◼   ► Now that all said, I am not confident in any of those.

01:22:26 ◼   ► So I'm going to pick something slightly different, which is they are going to announce whatever

01:22:30 ◼   ► this thing is.

01:22:31 ◼   ► And as a part of that, a game developer is heard from.

01:22:35 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

01:22:36 ◼   ► So someone's going to be like, Oh, I love, I love Apple games.

01:22:40 ◼   ► Okay.

01:22:40 ◼   ► I, I, we were so happy to make our game for Apple or make our Apple has done so many great

01:22:46 ◼   ► things for game developers.

01:22:47 ◼   ► That's, that's my conceptual pick here is that maybe it'll be in a different context altogether,

01:22:51 ◼   ► but this is what's motivating.

01:22:52 ◼   ► It is we will, there will be somebody who is not an Apple person who will be seen in perhaps

01:22:57 ◼   ► a montage that, that is a developer at the developer conference, who is a game developer who has

01:23:04 ◼   ► something to say is heard from like, not is just seen, but that we hear them say something.

01:23:09 ◼   ► And, you know, again, this is like a classic game demo on stage kind of pick, but I just

01:23:15 ◼   ► feel like there's a lot here.

01:23:16 ◼   ► I'm not comfortable at least in round 12 to put that down for what the name is.

01:23:22 ◼   ► Uh, but I am comfortable that there's going to be a game something.

01:23:24 ◼   ► So that's my, that's my proxy is a game developer is heard from.

01:23:27 ◼   ► All right.

01:23:30 ◼   ► We're in the final two picks now.

01:23:31 ◼   ► Maybe they're, maybe they're crying for help.

01:23:33 ◼   ► Like, I don't know how to help stop.

01:23:36 ◼   ► But, uh, heard from is all I, I know the content is unclear.

01:23:40 ◼   ► Uh, all right.

01:23:45 ◼   ► I'm going to make a pick that good.

01:23:48 ◼   ► It's a draft.

01:23:49 ◼   ► It's helpful.

01:23:50 ◼   ► Uh, iPad windows can be moved around freely.

01:23:54 ◼   ► Woo.

01:23:56 ◼   ► Okay.

01:23:58 ◼   ► Well, the whiff of desperation in here.

01:24:03 ◼   ► Okay.

01:24:04 ◼   ► Let's be clear here.

01:24:04 ◼   ► iPad windows can be moved around freely.

01:24:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:07 ◼   ► What you mean is currently, even though you can move windows around a little more freely

01:24:13 ◼   ► than you could before, there are still cases where the windowing sort of like pushes them

01:24:19 ◼   ► into various locations.

01:24:20 ◼   ► You can't fully overlap them in the way that you might on Mac OS.

01:24:23 ◼   ► You, there's still an element of snapping, um, and all of this kind of stuff.

01:24:28 ◼   ► And like, so what you're saying is they will show or talk about free movement of windows

01:24:33 ◼   ► as a feature in the keynote.

01:24:35 ◼   ► And one of the reasons that I think that this could happen is vision.

01:24:39 ◼   ► OS has no problem with this.

01:24:40 ◼   ► I know.

01:24:41 ◼   ► Right.

01:24:42 ◼   ► You can do this.

01:24:43 ◼   ► No problem on vision.

01:24:44 ◼   ► OS.

01:24:44 ◼   ► So Apple is not completely against the idea of overlapping windows because they have created

01:24:52 ◼   ► a platform since they created stage manager on iPad, where you can do this.

01:24:56 ◼   ► So let's just get it done.

01:25:00 ◼   ► If anything, yeah, it would be easier to handle this on iPad OS and on vision OS, because on

01:25:09 ◼   ► iPad OS, like you have the dock right there, you know, so you can like click on the dock

01:25:13 ◼   ► and you bring the windows up on vision.

01:25:15 ◼   ► where you have to find them.

01:25:16 ◼   ► You have to like, go find them.

01:25:17 ◼   ► And so let's just get it done.

01:25:21 ◼   ► Okay.

01:25:23 ◼   ► Sounds good.

01:25:24 ◼   ► I, uh, remember when I said I wasn't super confident in any of those game names.

01:25:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:25:29 ◼   ► I'm just going to pick that.

01:25:30 ◼   ► It's called Apple games.

01:25:31 ◼   ► So you had this great idea and you're just not doing it.

01:25:36 ◼   ► Well, we don't, I mean, can I change, can I add a pick right now?

01:25:41 ◼   ► To say that it's called Apple arcade.

01:25:45 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

01:25:45 ◼   ► Cause it's, it's great.

01:25:46 ◼   ► Okay.

01:25:46 ◼   ► It's great.

01:25:47 ◼   ► Let's do it.

01:25:47 ◼   ► Cause now it'd be hilarious to me if it's called Apple games, I'll be super happy.

01:25:52 ◼   ► Oh man.

01:25:52 ◼   ► I'll be super happy.

01:25:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:25:54 ◼   ► But no, I like my idea is so wacky that I think I have to pick it.

01:25:57 ◼   ► So I think it's a great idea.

01:25:58 ◼   ► I think, I think you need to pick it because it's a good idea and it, and if it's right,

01:26:03 ◼   ► you need those being right.

01:26:04 ◼   ► Here's the, here's the thing is Apple games.

01:26:06 ◼   ► The, my argument for Apple games is that arcade is cutesy and it covers, it feels like arcade

01:26:11 ◼   ► games and it's old style, whereas games is super straight.

01:26:14 ◼   ► But also, but the reason I think they'll call it Apple games is because this is the

01:26:18 ◼   ► way that is music, TV, news, games.

01:26:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:22 ◼   ► That's why I think they'll call it Apple games.

01:26:24 ◼   ► I'm going to keep it as Apple games.

01:26:25 ◼   ► I'm not going to pick Apple arcade.

01:26:27 ◼   ► If it's called Apple arcade, I'll be so happy.

01:26:29 ◼   ► That's fine.

01:26:30 ◼   ► I will.

01:26:30 ◼   ► If it's called Apple arcade and they rename the service to arcade plus, I will take a victory

01:26:34 ◼   ► lap.

01:26:35 ◼   ► Even though I did.

01:26:36 ◼   ► You will get a first in upgrade.

01:26:38 ◼   ► I'll steal this from a kind of funny game show now.

01:26:41 ◼   ► You'll get a tip of the cap.

01:26:42 ◼   ► That's what you'll get.

01:26:43 ◼   ► You'll get the first ever tip of the cap for that pick in the, in the draw.

01:26:46 ◼   ► I demand credit.

01:26:48 ◼   ► Final pick.

01:26:49 ◼   ► Final pick.

01:26:50 ◼   ► Oh, this is rough.

01:26:53 ◼   ► Do I want to make another vision?

01:26:58 ◼   ► OS pick.

01:26:59 ◼   ► Like this is where all my vision.

01:27:00 ◼   ► OS picks are now.

01:27:03 ◼   ► How much time are they going to spend on vision?

01:27:05 ◼   ► OS really?

01:27:06 ◼   ► You know, like that's the question.

01:27:08 ◼   ► I mean, that's real complicated, right?

01:27:10 ◼   ► Cause like vision.

01:27:12 ◼   ► OS is the platform where they could make the most change because it's newest, but like what

01:27:17 ◼   ► for the 50,000 people that are using it of any regularity, like how much time are they

01:27:23 ◼   ► really going to like, there are things that they might do to vision.

01:27:25 ◼   ► OS that they just don't talk about in the keynote, but like that they actually put in vision.

01:27:30 ◼   ► OS 26, which is hilarious.

01:27:32 ◼   ► As I thought that we'll go from two to 26.

01:27:34 ◼   ► Stalling.

01:27:36 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:27:37 ◼   ► He's stalling.

01:27:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:38 ◼   ► But you know what?

01:27:40 ◼   ► This, if they do it, they'll put it on the bento slide.

01:27:43 ◼   ► So I'm just going to do it.

01:27:45 ◼   ► Dream pick.

01:27:46 ◼   ► Here it is.

01:27:46 ◼   ► They need to do it.

01:27:47 ◼   ► Support for VR hand controllers.

01:27:49 ◼   ► Yay.

01:27:51 ◼   ► They really should do this.

01:27:53 ◼   ► I hope that happens.

01:27:53 ◼   ► You should actually turn this into a games platform.

01:27:56 ◼   ► It's a third party API for hand controllers.

01:27:59 ◼   ► Support.

01:27:59 ◼   ► Even if you can't work with PlayStation.

01:28:02 ◼   ► For whatever reason, even though PlayStation desperately need to get rid of their stock

01:28:07 ◼   ► of the PSVR 2, you should have, as you said, an API so people could just make these things

01:28:13 ◼   ► and we can all have a good time playing Beat Saber or whatever fake Beat Saber will get

01:28:18 ◼   ► on Vision Pro.

01:28:19 ◼   ► Jason, I turned on my Vision Pro last week.

01:28:22 ◼   ► I have not turned it on since the baby was born.

01:28:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:27 ◼   ► And I was trying out the Bono immersive movie.

01:28:32 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes.

01:28:33 ◼   ► Technically very impressive.

01:28:36 ◼   ► Yes.

01:28:37 ◼   ► I'm not a huge U2 fan, so it wasn't for me.

01:28:39 ◼   ► But this is great because it is like an actual feature length thing, which includes lots of

01:28:45 ◼   ► immersive content and even the kind of like, even when they're just showing things on a

01:28:50 ◼   ► screen, they have like immersive things that are happening.

01:28:52 ◼   ► It is really good.

01:28:54 ◼   ► It's just not necessarily my kind of thing.

01:28:57 ◼   ► But I turned it on and I went to the app store and the what's new still includes what if.

01:29:05 ◼   ► It's not a great scene in the Vision OS app store.

01:29:08 ◼   ► It's not.

01:29:09 ◼   ► It's not a lot going on.

01:29:11 ◼   ► It's real quiet.

01:29:12 ◼   ► But if you have a Vision Pro, like we always say, whenever Apple adds anything immersive,

01:29:17 ◼   ► you should always at least check it out.

01:29:19 ◼   ► And this one is yet another interpretation of an interesting thing that you can do with

01:29:26 ◼   ► immersive video content.

01:29:28 ◼   ► Like, okay, they've done another one, but can we get any of them to do frequently?

01:29:33 ◼   ► The answer to that seems to be no.

01:29:35 ◼   ► But we can keep seeing new interesting ways in which someone could produce content like this.

01:29:40 ◼   ► A friend of the show who shall remain nameless wrote in, sent me a picture at a used tech and

01:29:48 ◼   ► book store where a Vision Pro is for sale for $16.99.

01:29:53 ◼   ► That's a deal.

01:29:55 ◼   ► What's your final pick?

01:29:59 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:30:03 ◼   ► An AI company representative is heard from.

01:30:07 ◼   ► I'm doing more heard from picks.

01:30:08 ◼   ► More SageCraft picks.

01:30:10 ◼   ► The idea here is that as part of some partnership somewhere, we will get in the video somebody

01:30:16 ◼   ► from one of these sterling new tech titan AI companies talking about something about their

01:30:24 ◼   ► AI and working with Apple.

01:30:26 ◼   ► So the idea here is there's a thing from Sam Altman.

01:30:29 ◼   ► There's a thing from Sundar Pichai or some other person at Google or somebody at perplexity or

01:30:35 ◼   ► whatever, whatever.

01:30:36 ◼   ► Just that as part of their new, we're going to be more open.

01:30:41 ◼   ► We've added partners, all of that, that somebody from the outside, I mean, honestly, lends a little

01:30:48 ◼   ► credibility to Apple's AI story.

01:30:52 ◼   ► It's StageCraft, right?

01:30:53 ◼   ► Like they could choose to do it or not.

01:30:54 ◼   ► And so it really is.

01:30:56 ◼   ► But I'm left with StageCraft picks at this point.

01:30:59 ◼   ► So I'm going to I'm going to go back to the StageCraft.

01:31:01 ◼   ► They didn't do it last time with OpenAI.

01:31:04 ◼   ► But I see where you're coming from of like now, if they want to make themselves look like

01:31:11 ◼   ► they're a place for partnerships, maybe now's the time.

01:31:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:16 ◼   ► All right.

01:31:17 ◼   ► That's the draft.

01:31:17 ◼   ► We're done.

01:31:18 ◼   ► That's the draft.

01:31:19 ◼   ► Upgrade.cards is where you can follow along.

01:31:21 ◼   ► Oh, man.

01:31:22 ◼   ► Let's talk something about real quick.

01:31:24 ◼   ► So last year in Upgrade Plus, we created the California Bear Trophy.

01:31:27 ◼   ► Yes.

01:31:28 ◼   ► California Bear Trophy was, let's guess the guess the name.

01:31:31 ◼   ► And we were going to do it again because last year we tied because the rules were not well

01:31:36 ◼   ► thought out and we ended up tying.

01:31:38 ◼   ► So we were going to do this year the California Bear Trophy again.

01:31:42 ◼   ► The problem is.

01:31:43 ◼   ► We've tightened up rules.

01:31:43 ◼   ► The problem is Mark Gurman has recommended, as Seth said, it's going to be Mac OS Tahoe,

01:31:49 ◼   ► which was one of my picks from last year.

01:31:51 ◼   ► I think I went with Lake Tahoe, but I went with Tahoe because it's one of the only places

01:31:55 ◼   ► I knew about.

01:31:55 ◼   ► Plus, because I thought, I said, because I thought they could do, you know, interesting.

01:32:00 ◼   ► You've got like summer and winter as you're kind of like, you know, your wallpaper looks

01:32:05 ◼   ► because you've got like the skiing, but you've also got the, I believe that it's good in summer

01:32:09 ◼   ► and winter there.

01:32:09 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:32:10 ◼   ► It is.

01:32:11 ◼   ► Yes.

01:32:11 ◼   ► So we have that now.

01:32:12 ◼   ► So we're going to continue with the California Bear Trophy, but we have a new game, which

01:32:18 ◼   ► we will work out during Upgrade Plus.

01:32:20 ◼   ► Yes, that's right.

01:32:22 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right.

01:32:23 ◼   ► We'll cover what we didn't pick.

01:32:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:25 ◼   ► What we wish we'd picked and the California Bear Trophy will be contended in Upgrade Plus.

01:32:30 ◼   ► In a new game.

01:32:31 ◼   ► Jason's been working on something.

01:32:33 ◼   ► We'll find out what that is.

01:32:34 ◼   ► Go to getupgradeplus.com.

01:32:35 ◼   ► You can sign up.

01:32:36 ◼   ► You can get this extra content.

01:32:37 ◼   ► We have extra content each and every week for listeners of the show, along with no ad breaks

01:32:42 ◼   ► if you subscribe to Upgrade Plus.

01:32:44 ◼   ► And thank you to everybody that does that.

01:32:46 ◼   ► If you'd like to send us in your feedback, follow up and questions, go to upgradefeedback.com.

01:32:51 ◼   ► Thank you to our members who support us each and every week with Upgrade Plus.

01:32:54 ◼   ► You can find this show on YouTube by searching for Upgrade Podcast.

01:32:58 ◼   ► I would like to thank Delete Me, Squarespace and Oracle for the support of this show.

01:33:01 ◼   ► So next week, as is usual with the WWDC post keynote episode, we will record as soon as

01:33:09 ◼   ► we can after the keynote and get the episode out as soon as we can for you all.

01:33:14 ◼   ► As also, it always is.

01:33:15 ◼   ► We're not entirely sure of when everything is going to be going out, but we are confident

01:33:19 ◼   ► this year that we will have an episode on Monday, right?

01:33:23 ◼   ► That's the plan.

01:33:24 ◼   ► That's the plan.

01:33:25 ◼   ► Something could go wrong, but the plan now is to fairly soon post keynote do an episode

01:33:30 ◼   ► of Upgrade.

01:33:30 ◼   ► If anything changes, we post on the social media so you can find us on your social platform

01:33:35 ◼   ► of choice.

01:33:35 ◼   ► And if you're wondering, hey, where's the show?

01:33:37 ◼   ► If there's a delay, we will post about it.

01:33:39 ◼   ► But the plan is to get an episode recorded on Monday and release.

01:33:44 ◼   ► On Monday in the US.

01:33:46 ◼   ► It will definitely be Tuesday in the UK.

01:33:48 ◼   ► I feel confident about that part.

01:33:51 ◼   ► It will be Tuesday in the UK.

01:33:52 ◼   ► And it will be clear that Adina is going to have some extra childcare next week.

01:33:58 ◼   ► Because coming.

01:33:59 ◼   ► That's grandma in Romania.

01:34:02 ◼   ► So Mike's not going to be a deadbeat.

01:34:04 ◼   ► We're not making Mike be a deadbeat dad.

01:34:06 ◼   ► It's all in the works.

01:34:07 ◼   ► Not entirely.

01:34:08 ◼   ► I mean, I won't be there.

01:34:10 ◼   ► That's what grandparents are for, though.

01:34:12 ◼   ► But grandma will be.

01:34:14 ◼   ► Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade.

01:34:16 ◼   ► Don't forget, you can buy a t-shirt by going to UpgradeYourWardrobe.com.

01:34:20 ◼   ► There's a link in the show notes if you want to buy yourself a fun draft t-shirt.

01:34:23 ◼   ► And you can celebrate the draft next time it happens.

01:34:25 ◼   ► Which, I mean, may be another three months from now.

01:34:28 ◼   ► So you've got some time on your hands.

01:34:29 ◼   ► Thanks for listening.

01:34:31 ◼   ► We'll be back next week.

01:34:32 ◼   ► Say goodbye, Jason.

01:34:32 ◼   ► Goodbye, Mike Hurley.