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563: Peanut or a Banana

 

00:00:00 ◼   ► from relay this is upgrade episode 563 for may 12th 2025 today's show is brought to you by

00:00:17 ◼   ► fitbond factor and ecamm my name is mike hurley and i have the pleasure as always of being joined

00:00:22 ◼   ► by jason snow hi jason hello mike hurley it is a pleasure as always to join you weather is nice

00:00:28 ◼   ► here in london right now we don't have time for that okay let's get to a snow talk question comes in

00:00:33 ◼   ► from jerry who wants to know do events go in your calendar in title case or sentence case or are you

00:00:40 ◼   ► one of those i don't know the all lowercase people or a chaos person um okay so this is a style guide

00:00:47 ◼   ► question which is great what a way to start the show it's a it's a style guide well we just onboarded

00:00:52 ◼   ► a new uh six colors writer glenn fleishman um who's going to be writing a help column for us

00:00:58 ◼   ► over at six colors you can actually you know just email glenn at six colors.com with your questions

00:01:03 ◼   ► and maybe i'll answer them on the uh on the website i'll put a link in the show notes to the post where

00:01:07 ◼   ► you talk all about it yeah and one of his questions for me was title case uh related and style guide

00:01:15 ◼   ► related and i i had that moment where i was like okay honestly the style guide doesn't exist and we

00:01:20 ◼   ► kind of make it up as we go and i generally just do it the way that i think i like it and i probably

00:01:26 ◼   ► should come up with a style guide at some point i ended up doing a google search to see how we've used

00:01:31 ◼   ► it in the past sort of a retroactive style guide and one of the things that i realized is his first post

00:01:37 ◼   ► was in uh in title case which is that you are capitalizing most but not all words in the headline

00:01:44 ◼   ► um and for those who don't know that is a that is a a thing that we don't do on six colors we actually

00:01:51 ◼   ► do our headlines in down style or sentence case where you only would capitalize you know proper the first

00:01:57 ◼   ► word and proper names but not and you know titles and and product names and things like that

00:02:03 ◼   ► but not every word um we live in there where the president of the united states post things typed

00:02:10 ◼   ► himself and they're randomly capitalized so present case it's you need a random number generator for

00:02:19 ◼   ► that anyway i um so so this is all a thing that most people don't care about but the people who do

00:02:26 ◼   ► care about it care about a great deal and a lot of times they're the ones involved in making the thing

00:02:29 ◼   ► you may not even notice it i also had to admit to glenn that the incomparables podcast titles as

00:02:34 ◼   ► relays podcast titles are in title case but six colors is in sentence case why

00:02:40 ◼   ► i mean i have some reasons but they're not interesting does it bother you that you thought

00:02:46 ◼   ► of that like when you realized this was there any part of you that was bothered by it the truth is

00:02:52 ◼   ► i don't mind title case on podcast episodes because it's the episode of a podcast on headlines i always

00:02:57 ◼   ► thought it was a little bit much which is why i decided after years of doing it at mac world that

00:03:02 ◼   ► six colors wasn't going to do it i guess the funny thing though is that even though you use title

00:03:07 ◼   ► case the incomparable website publishes all titles in full all caps it's true that's a design it's a css

00:03:15 ◼   ► thing but they're all there in title case and when they show up yeah exactly which is the most

00:03:20 ◼   ► important thing so two events jerry two events

00:03:24 ◼   ► levels jerry

00:03:27 ◼   ► i'm a pretty i'm a pretty random capitalizer when i'm sending things off that don't matter

00:03:35 ◼   ► so when i looked at my calendar today what i found is that i had some events in all lowercase i had some

00:03:40 ◼   ► events that were in title case and i had some events that were in sentence case i think generally

00:03:44 ◼   ► if i'm not being lazy with the shift key every everything is in sentence case let me tell you

00:03:50 ◼   ► actually i'm gonna i'm gonna out jason snell here i'm gonna out yes okay you i i am often quite

00:03:56 ◼   ► surprised at how how often you write in all lowercase like in a show document and stuff yep yep like very

00:04:04 ◼   ► often and and i because i don't care i'm going in and changing it yeah because i don't care because a lot

00:04:10 ◼   ► of a lot of it is i'm trying to dash something off to get it down and it's not for public consumption

00:04:14 ◼   ► and so i don't care i do that a lot in fact my my email sign off my email signature is generally my

00:04:19 ◼   ► name in lowercase so yeah that is a thing but that that is when i'm i don't care but i think that if i

00:04:27 ◼   ► look at my calendar actually some of the title case stuff is technically like that the title of a thing

00:04:33 ◼   ► so it is there for a reason but it's not again it's only for me and so i i honestly i really don't care

00:04:39 ◼   ► i know there are people there are people who who know a lot about style who care about it in all

00:04:44 ◼   ► their all their works and then there are people like me who know about it and and try to care about

00:04:50 ◼   ► it in public facing things but for private things i do not care at all and as i just detailed even for

00:04:55 ◼   ► the public facing things i don't care enough so that's there yeah uh i am an internalized title

00:05:04 ◼   ► caser especially when it comes for lots of things but with events like i don't even know i'm doing it but

00:05:09 ◼   ► it happens right so like i like it i actually tend to over title case uh some stuff where because

00:05:16 ◼   ► there are certain words i guess like adjoining words where you don't do it i actually use an app

00:05:22 ◼   ► on the mac called pop clip um which pop clip is is an app where you can highlight text uh and do things

00:05:30 ◼   ► with that text and it like it shows up basically like the cut copy paste menu above a text when you select

00:05:37 ◼   ► it like you get on the iphone and one of the pop clip things that i do is i can i can copy the text

00:05:43 ◼   ► um and i and a little uh t appears above it and if i press that t it turns it into title case so i do

00:05:50 ◼   ► that for nice i do that for like um the podcast titles because steven would be really mad if i if i

00:05:56 ◼   ► didn't uh title case them correctly um and i don't like it when steven or anybody goes in and changes

00:06:03 ◼   ► anything on my episodes after i post them so i just try and like make sure that that doesn't happen so

00:06:08 ◼   ► like no one has to worry about going in and doing that uh and so i have that app but anyway i uh but

00:06:14 ◼   ► i also have shared calendars of people who don't do that so that's upsetting to me um when i have

00:06:20 ◼   ► events that are in the lowercase but there's nothing i can do about it because it's not my event i'm not

00:06:23 ◼   ► going to go in and change the title of somebody else's event this was a very fun question from jerry so

00:06:30 ◼   ► thank you for sending this in if you'd like to send in a question of your own just go to upgrade

00:06:34 ◼   ► feedback.com and you can send in your own snow talk question uh we were just talking about six colors

00:06:39 ◼   ► business and glenn who's writing the six colors i want to do a follow-up and give a shout out to

00:06:43 ◼   ► friend of the show dan moran for his amazing run on jeopardy last week which was that's right very fun

00:06:48 ◼   ► congratulations to dan i uh yeah he's he's now um matched glenn in some ways and surpassed him in

00:06:56 ◼   ► others which is really fun um interesting and so we got we got uh we got some jeopardy champions in

00:07:01 ◼   ► the six colors uh area that's pretty cool very good and i i really enjoyed one

00:07:07 ◼   ► uh people who know about jeopardy appreciating what dan did two people americans who do not watch

00:07:15 ◼   ► jeopardy being fascinated to react like i was fascinated to watch them react to what jeopardy is

00:07:22 ◼   ► yeah um and then three for non-americans to react to jeopardy uh because again it is a very specific

00:07:30 ◼   ► thing that i'm so used to and and seeing all of these things like does he if he wins does he come back

00:07:35 ◼   ► tomorrow and it's like yes it is a really weird quiz show it's weird and it's fast and that's the

00:07:41 ◼   ► other thing that people kept saying it's like the pace is so fast i'm like yeah it is it's real fast

00:07:45 ◼   ► i have a question uh did he does dan get to keep all that money like the money that you made even

00:07:52 ◼   ► though he lost is it like is that dan's money that's dan's money congratulations i have it on good

00:07:57 ◼   ► authority that um that uh before they were supposed to squeal about it that uh that a person in dan's

00:08:04 ◼   ► family squealed to a friend of dan's okay said dan made a lot of money but that person made a lot of

00:08:10 ◼   ► money i'm very proud of him but he did a good job that person's not a jeopardy fan so they didn't

00:08:14 ◼   ► understand quite how it works whereas i knew that he went out there for two taping days and day two

00:08:21 ◼   ► he was at disneyland which means that he didn't make it to day two and that meant he was on on day

00:08:29 ◼   ► one and that and i know that they tape again it's these levels i know that they tape monday to friday

00:08:34 ◼   ► yep on a day they tape five episodes on a day and so if dan was at disneyland on tuesday

00:08:40 ◼   ► that meant that he didn't he was on five but he didn't he didn't well he didn't get to monday

00:08:47 ◼   ► yeah he he only got through friday right i didn't know if he won or if he was just out in one but

00:08:54 ◼   ► after he won a couple which he did uh it got to friday and i was like well he's not winning this one

00:08:59 ◼   ► because i saw i i you know he went to disneyland the next day so i know that about it but we put all

00:09:04 ◼   ► together and the answer is so the answer is yes he he made that money amazing um i believe the i

00:09:09 ◼   ► believe that various governments take it right off the top the u.s and and the state of california

00:09:15 ◼   ► and according to glenn you then fill out a form if you're not a california resident and say actually

00:09:20 ◼   ► that's my money yeah and then they give it back to you so uh but yeah that's it's pretty good and i

00:09:26 ◼   ► am looking forward to how he handles his annual uh post that he does on his own personal blog

00:09:32 ◼   ► about how much money he makes from from tech journalism and how much money he makes from

00:09:38 ◼   ► uh uh book you know novel writing and all of that and now he's got this game this you know one time

00:09:44 ◼   ► presumably who knows game show uh income stream also jeopardy does a postseason where they have past uh

00:09:52 ◼   ► champions come and play again so he may come back and play again and have a chance to win more money

00:09:59 ◼   ► which is also pretty cool so i'm i couldn't be prouder also for those who don't know uh two years

00:10:05 ◼   ► ago i uh i tried out for jeopardy for the first time using their quiz a week later they had me do

00:10:12 ◼   ► uh the the retake where they make sure that it's proxy basically so that you weren't cheating a week

00:10:16 ◼   ► later i had an i had an in-person zoom audition with a whole bunch of people and they said okay um for

00:10:22 ◼   ► the next year and a half basically you just have to wait by the phone and we'll call you if we're

00:10:26 ◼   ► interested and i told this to dan it was really sad because dan had been trying to be on jeopardy for

00:10:30 ◼   ► 10 years and he'd never gotten any of those points and i felt really bad because i thought i was going

00:10:35 ◼   ► to just zoom right into jeopardy contestant hood and dan was uh dan was not and then what happened is

00:10:41 ◼   ► they never called me they're extenuating circumstances but also probably they didn't want me

00:10:45 ◼   ► um but uh then dan just did it and the same thing happened boop boop boop and he got on which is

00:10:50 ◼   ► awesome so i don't feel i don't feel guilty at all now now that dan is a jeopardy champion yeah so

00:10:58 ◼   ► yeah that's so good so good it was so fun to watch uh don't ask me how i saw it um and uh just ways

00:11:05 ◼   ► screeners the end of the first episode when he finds out he won i got tear in my eye he will

00:11:11 ◼   ► yeah i don't know if i've ever seen a man so happy to be honest uh it was amazing congratulations dan

00:11:17 ◼   ► we're really proud of you and uh i think it's so cool all right we've got some follow-up okay so

00:11:23 ◼   ► we've got some some questions and some stuff and obviously uh there's a big lawyer up segment again

00:11:27 ◼   ► today because lots of things have continued to happen uh in the world of legal proceedings over

00:11:32 ◼   ► the last week but first comes from matthias who asks given the last couple of weeks how do you think

00:11:37 ◼   ► apple will handle the messaging of wwdc this year is there anything you think that they should do so

00:11:43 ◼   ► we're like less than a month away at this point um wwdc while being you know it's obviously a

00:11:49 ◼   ► developer's conference i know there is typically and has typically been in the past some kind of feel

00:11:55 ◼   ► good developer video that kind of stuff like what what do you think is the right way to handle it this

00:12:00 ◼   ► yeah i think they'll do what they always do which is the people involved in making wwdd

00:12:05 ◼   ► the people involved in making wwdc are people who their job is developer relations and they're the

00:12:15 ◼   ► ones who who care about developers they're the ones who care about developers so the messaging is going

00:12:19 ◼   ► to be the same which is you're very important to us it's going to be the same and i know that apple

00:12:27 ◼   ► is proud enough that it seems extremely unlikely that we're going to get any kind of profession of

00:12:35 ◼   ► guilt for prior bad behavior yeah do what what do i think they should do well the thing is i don't

00:12:42 ◼   ► think they should handle the messaging different i think they need to change their policies and we can

00:12:47 ◼   ► talk about that more in lawyer up again we can talk about that elsewhere but i think this is the problem

00:12:52 ◼   ► is apple has a developer relations team that cares a lot about developers there are a lot of people

00:12:57 ◼   ► internal app generally who care about developers who probably think that developers are being mistreated

00:13:03 ◼   ► by policy but the people handling the policies are doing something different by the way this is not special

00:13:10 ◼   ► to apple um my direct dealings with google that i had when i worked at idg were very similar which is

00:13:18 ◼   ► i was working with engineers they were awesome they're like how can we do this that works for you

00:13:23 ◼   ► and they built a whole thing and then at some point a switch got flipped and the lawyers came in

00:13:27 ◼   ► and everything sucked um that this is very similar to that which is they're the people who really care

00:13:34 ◼   ► and then they're the people in charge of policy and of course people who really care are not holding a

00:13:39 ◼   ► fiduciary responsibility for the company yada yada yada i get the differences i'm not trying to be naive here

00:13:44 ◼   ► but i i do want to say that is there anything i think they should do is change their policies toward

00:13:51 ◼   ► developers so that their messaging doesn't fall flat and that's not a messaging problem it's a policy

00:13:58 ◼   ► problem yeah i agree i think that we should get one of those which has been in the past one week

00:14:03 ◼   ► before wwdc press release interviews here's how we're changing the rules yeah we're changing the

00:14:09 ◼   ► rules in some way and like and again like i feel like uh i'm harsh on them and i don't know how my

00:14:16 ◼   ► opinion comes across sometimes i think they should get i think apple should get something but it shouldn't

00:14:20 ◼   ► be the 30 is my feeling is like the ideal they they should get something and they should also offer

00:14:26 ◼   ► more to developers for the right to take that something i think but they're appealing right now

00:14:30 ◼   ► and so they're not going to say anything or do anything right because they're still fighting

00:14:34 ◼   ► this they're still fighting city hall right i mean that's what's happening the appeal i don't think

00:14:40 ◼   ► that appeal and it has to stay the same have to be the same thing like i think what well i ultimately

00:14:47 ◼   ► what apple is appealing or i would assume that they're appealing is their ability to make their own

00:14:52 ◼   ► rules because like the issue they have right now is their ability to create policy in this area has

00:14:59 ◼   ► been taken away from them and so they can't really make any changes unless this gets appealed i would

00:15:05 ◼   ► assume exactly so i mean there's nothing they can announce that they could enact in the u.s

00:15:09 ◼   ► because they're under a court order to do it the way that they're doing it now in the u.s

00:15:13 ◼   ► which is nothing essentially it the only thing would be if they decided that this would if there

00:15:18 ◼   ► was a real reversal inside apple where culturally they're like oh we really messed this up we need

00:15:23 ◼   ► to change we need to change everything we we do about this they could announce that everywhere

00:15:27 ◼   ► outside the u.s or maybe the u.s and the eu they had a whole new system of rules that they were putting

00:15:33 ◼   ► into place but again probably not a month since the court ruling right like it's probably just not

00:15:39 ◼   ► going to happen so you know that's what what i think they should do is change the the way they walk the

00:15:44 ◼   ► walk and that will allow them to talk the talk uh but i do not during the actual presentation itself

00:15:50 ◼   ► like apple can do whatever developer evangelists should do everything that they're going to do and

00:15:54 ◼   ► in my opinion should work even harder than ever this year sorry it wasn't your fault but you got to work

00:15:59 ◼   ► hard this year i think if you want to try and convince developers that you care about them what i don't want

00:16:04 ◼   ► to see from apple is one of those feel good developer videos about like how great it is to be an apple

00:16:09 ◼   ► developer and how much they care because it it will fall big time flat and i feel like if they do that

00:16:16 ◼   ► they have absolutely missed the mark like it is not the time right now to be like we love our developers

00:16:22 ◼   ► we care about our developers because even if you do it's just not going to land and it's going to be

00:16:27 ◼   ► taken poorly but so i'll be very intrigued to see what they do uh david writes in and asks and says

00:16:35 ◼   ► where was apple's corporate and external counsel when they were trying to figure out how to comply

00:16:39 ◼   ► with the court order if they've been part of the discussion presumably the conversation wouldn't be

00:16:44 ◼   ► discoverable either i get that lots of companies try to hide behind attorney-client privilege but

00:16:49 ◼   ► figuring out how to comply with a court order seems pretty clearly to be on the fair side of why you talk

00:16:54 ◼   ► to an attorney for advice this is a good point this is a similar point that john voye has made on a great

00:17:00 ◼   ► episode of app stories and like the question that i have which i wonder about is

00:17:04 ◼   ► ultimately does the council serve the ceo like if the ceo decides this is what we're going to do

00:17:11 ◼   ► is it the lawyer to just work it out even if they you know they can ignore the advice

00:17:17 ◼   ► corporate counsel like i assume that the way that this works i think this is a great question because

00:17:22 ◼   ► a lot of people are like where is the lawyer and where are the lawyers in all of this but the thing is

00:17:27 ◼   ► i'm pretty sure that apple's high level strategy meetings don't have the lawyers in them so what's

00:17:36 ◼   ► probably happened is they've asked the lawyers for their opinions and so that means two things one you're a

00:17:43 ◼   ► lawyer working for apple and phil schiller says i think we need to comply and there are probably lawyers

00:17:50 ◼   ► who are like well we can do that that will that will eliminate all sorts of risk if we comply fully

00:17:56 ◼   ► with this and then there are people like luca maestri and presumably tim cook who are like but we don't

00:18:02 ◼   ► have to right like this is arguable right we could we could we could act in this other way and it could

00:18:07 ◼   ► be perceived as being and the lawyer can say well i can make the argument that this is perceived as being

00:18:13 ◼   ► following the judge's orders but you know also i have to advise you that it's a riskier path because

00:18:18 ◼   ► the judge if the judge isn't happy the judge can just uh do whatever she wants and we have to follow

00:18:25 ◼   ► her order because she will find us in contempt so you're walking a line there but as a lawyer i can

00:18:30 ◼   ► argue and again the argue the corporate counsel could even say look we think it's a riskier move they're

00:18:36 ◼   ► not going to say look we can see the future and we if you do this uh you're in big trouble they're

00:18:41 ◼   ► going to say look we could we we think this is a riskier path but if you're concerned about the

00:18:46 ◼   ► revenue implications here you can try it um this is and probably what they did in terms of the final

00:18:53 ◼   ► policies that they enabled or that they enacted were probably guided by the council saying yes you need

00:19:02 ◼   ► to do this you need to do this because remember they were abiding by the letter of the law not the spirit

00:19:07 ◼   ► of the law well that is something you look to your corporate counsel to do is does this

00:19:11 ◼   ► abide by the letter of the the judge's ruling i'm sure though somewhere in there they said

00:19:18 ◼   ► this is a much riskier path and in the end you know that's tim cook's call that's that's the you

00:19:27 ◼   ► could you know the the attorney is going to say not say absolutely not you just have to give away all

00:19:32 ◼   ► this money like phil says the the attorney is going to provide a range of options and what the fallout might

00:19:40 ◼   ► be and in the end i mean i don't i i love this question but in the end it comes back to the same

00:19:46 ◼   ► answer which is there are people who are making it very clear what the potential fallout of this is

00:19:51 ◼   ► and tim cook chose to put it push it to the max and take the risk yeah yeah i i figure it's like

00:20:00 ◼   ► you should say right that the lawyer can advise they can go decide they'll come back and tell the lawyer

00:20:04 ◼   ► and then it's the lawyer's job to try and get it past the judge ultimately yeah you're going to look

00:20:09 ◼   ► at project wisconsin or project michigan or whatever it is and make sure that it ticks all the boxes in

00:20:15 ◼   ► as we all saw the least helpful way possible but that it ticks them so we can argue that we complied with

00:20:21 ◼   ► the judge's ruling and that ends up being the the rule because really how much to comply is a policy decision

00:20:28 ◼   ► it's not a legal decision you're just using you know legal advice but i'm sure somebody said you risk

00:20:34 ◼   ► the judge being unhappy with you and they were okay with that risk yep and here we are

00:20:39 ◼   ► uh finally the great news i think the studio has been renewed uh for season two this show is

00:20:46 ◼   ► an absolute triumph uh the i won't spoil it but the final the final episode of the season is

00:20:51 ◼   ► incredible it's just incredible it feels like seth rogan cashed in every favor he possibly had in

00:20:57 ◼   ► hollywood and put together an episode it's astoundingly good i love this show um and i'm so happy that

00:21:03 ◼   ► they that they're bringing it back it's fantastic show um i was traveling last week so i have been

00:21:10 ◼   ► i'm now behind i'm like way behind on everything and there's more coming too murder bot comes out this

00:21:15 ◼   ► week yeah on tv plus yeah i'm intrigued about really looking forward to you know i'm intrigued

00:21:19 ◼   ► about those the stories are are are so good okay um and the trailer suggests that they've gotten the

00:21:25 ◼   ► tone right so i i highly that it's funny that it's a sci-fi uh thing that's got action in it but it's

00:21:33 ◼   ► also very funny and is about people and specifically about this this uh non-person the murder bot who

00:21:40 ◼   ► does not deal well with humans it's great it's so good so i i have high hopes for the tv show

00:21:46 ◼   ► i'm also still enjoying your friends and neighbors that's also really good but the thing that i'm

00:21:51 ◼   ► interested in here like i find interesting i should say here is it feels like they've got the programming

00:21:57 ◼   ► right like yep we're we're hbo in this of like they're rolling it too they're hbo in it not only in

00:22:04 ◼   ► the quality way but in the fact that like severance ended the same studio started murder bot is is

00:22:09 ◼   ► starting the same week the studio is ending like they've got enough content now this is the way

00:22:13 ◼   ► after the strikes and all that that they are rolling it out there's always something to watch on tv plus

00:22:18 ◼   ► yeah that yeah it's really smart you have concurrent things going on but you feel like you've got like

00:22:23 ◼   ► the hbo model right you've you know you've got this one show that is going to be really good so

00:22:28 ◼   ► you wait until the current really good shows over and then you slot it in its place that's right it's

00:22:33 ◼   ► a risky thing to do right because you're you're you're kind of like potentially then holding off

00:22:38 ◼   ► the next big hit if this one doesn't land but if you're confident in it and you you play it out then

00:22:43 ◼   ► great um but yeah i mean uh yeah so that i think i think they're doing good right now i think severance

00:22:48 ◼   ► set them up well and they've capitalized on it i feel like if you're paying attention to apple tv plus

00:22:55 ◼   ► right now you will want to stay subscribed and that has been their exact problem for the last

00:23:00 ◼   ► four years or whatever right of like yes they have a good show and then people leave and severance got

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00:25:20 ◼   ► a thanks to fitbod for their support of upgrade and relay time to lawyer up clunk clunk uh just a top

00:25:29 ◼   ► level thing any more reflections from you about the like 30 percent situation is the best way i can

00:25:35 ◼   ► kind of encapsulate this over the last week somebody said it should have been called the 30

00:25:39 ◼   ► percent solution because that's sherlock conference um it's very good uh you know it is it's a really

00:25:46 ◼   ► sweet solution sweet um no you know i don't know it is we're just in a weird place right now um where

00:25:58 ◼   ► in some ways this is the culmination of a lot of conversations we've had over years

00:26:04 ◼   ► and that this is in some ways i felt weirdly validated by that judge's ruling yeah because i

00:26:14 ◼   ► felt that a judge who does not spend her entire career paying attention to apple and its policies

00:26:20 ◼   ► dug into this situation and essentially said what we've been saying which is this isn't the problem

00:26:29 ◼   ► here is not you protecting your intellectual property the problem here is that you refuse to compete and

00:26:35 ◼   ► you want to capture everything that happens on your platforms and capture all the revenue out of it even if

00:26:41 ◼   ► you're being hostile to your developer partners and to your users because that the thing about i know it's in

00:26:47 ◼   ► our list here but i'll mention it now one of the things that happened here is amazon added a get book

00:26:52 ◼   ► button to the kindle app yep and and while we're talking about a lot of the conversation and we're going to have it

00:27:00 ◼   ► now a lot of the conversation is about apple potentially losing revenue right by by not having

00:27:07 ◼   ► all that stuff captured but apple never got any revenue from amazon for kindle books they never did

00:27:16 ◼   ► because it never made sense it was never something you could do because of the way that the book selling

00:27:21 ◼   ► model works apple taking its cut literally meant that that amazon lost money on every book sale in the

00:27:28 ◼   ► iphone so this is actually a really great example of one of the other things that happens here which is

00:27:34 ◼   ► apple did a consumer hostile thing made it hard to buy books the most logical place to buy a book

00:27:41 ◼   ► if you're a kindle reader is in the kindle app and you just couldn't and why not apple policy and apple

00:27:47 ◼   ► wasn't even making money apple was just making it hard on amazon and amazon's customers on ios it was

00:27:53 ◼   ► it was decreasing the quality of the user experience on the iphone because it didn't because it made a

00:28:01 ◼   ► blanket policy um we could argue because it started its own bookstore where it didn't need a middleman

00:28:07 ◼   ► like this so so that is i think a really great example of how this is more than just apple um choosing

00:28:16 ◼   ► to try and capture as much money as it could it's also about apple degrading the user experience in

00:28:22 ◼   ► order to keep its policies up and and i would say contrary to what apple's product philosophy is

00:28:28 ◼   ► supposed to be so that's part of it um the other thought that i i've been having and i want to know if

00:28:34 ◼   ► you've got any too but i'll throw one more out there that i've been having for the last week

00:28:37 ◼   ► as i listened to lots of people talk about this and write about that you know all of that is going on

00:28:44 ◼   ► the one thing that i i didn't say last week that i wanted to say here is the 30 right like apple's

00:28:52 ◼   ► argument is oh you've treated our intellectual property as worth nothing and that's why it's an

00:28:57 ◼   ► unconstitutional taking and this should be overturned and all of that i would argue that you could say

00:29:02 ◼   ► that the 99 developer fee is you recouping your intellectual property and that maybe the answer

00:29:08 ◼   ► is you should charge a bigger fee to be an apple developer and do it that way yeah um maybe maybe

00:29:13 ◼   ► that's a way you could do it because in the old days it was it was a thousand dollars a year to be

00:29:17 ◼   ► an apple developer but they lowered it in part because they were then they had this uh this tax that they

00:29:22 ◼   ► did on all the transactions which is great i mean i i and maybe that's the answer is that there's a

00:29:27 ◼   ► you know a a small business and student and non-profit fee that's or or is waived and there's

00:29:34 ◼   ► a more expensive thing i don't think it's going to solve this problem but like i do think it's them

00:29:38 ◼   ► recouping their money on their intellectual property and their apis and all of that what what i kept

00:29:44 ◼   ► thinking all week though is why 30 why 30 it's only 30 because steve jobs said it at 30 in the early

00:29:50 ◼   ► days when everybody looked at the 30 and was like well i mean it is pretty full service and that's not a bad

00:29:55 ◼   ► deal and people didn't really realize kind of like how it went and because it was set there they've

00:29:59 ◼   ► kept it there but for a lot of the people who are like who are saying apple and there aren't that many

00:30:05 ◼   ► honestly which is nice saying oh apple is the victim here i'll just say the reason that i don't feel like

00:30:13 ◼   ► apple's argument is very strong is why 30 why not 70 why not 80 why not 90 what's stopping apple

00:30:24 ◼   ► from charging whatever it wants because there's no competition so it's only 30 because they started

00:30:31 ◼   ► at 30 if they started at 50 it would be 50 if they started at 80 it would be 80 and that's the problem

00:30:39 ◼   ► is that it's not a reasonable amount in any circumstance for them to do this it's not amount

00:30:46 ◼   ► and the issue is competition yeah the issue is competition and the degradation of the user experience

00:30:51 ◼   ► those are my two kind of things that i've been thinking for the last week yeah i mean i think

00:30:55 ◼   ► we're basically around the same area i i think in general um it is a bit it's validating because i feel

00:31:05 ◼   ► like we have been on this hobby horse for a long time uh and yeah it's nice a professional agreed with

00:31:12 ◼   ► us yes like it just didn't feel right like it just didn't feel right you know and i've felt very strongly

00:31:20 ◼   ► for you know where i kind of i feel very strongly i sit in these two kind of different camps where

00:31:24 ◼   ► i i kind of feel that like to a degree businesses should be able to do whatever they want like

00:31:32 ◼   ► in essence of how they work with other businesses i feel like you should be able to set your business

00:31:38 ◼   ► terms and and do what you need to do but at the same time i also think that if it comes to harm

00:31:45 ◼   ► customers then you shouldn't be able to do whatever you want right i feel like it should be businesses

00:31:50 ◼   ► work of businesses and they just work it out like for example the idea i've i've often felt like i know

00:31:57 ◼   ► that this actually got google in trouble so then this isn't allowed but i've often felt that apple should

00:32:02 ◼   ► be free to do whatever deals it wants to do with any developer i i don't think that i sorry i don't think

00:32:09 ◼   ► every developer should have to be treated equally like i just don't think that's the case um i think

00:32:14 ◼   ► netflix should not be treated the same as timery right like they're they just they should just

00:32:22 ◼   ► shouldn't be treated the same in my opinion when you're more successful you get a little bit of

00:32:27 ◼   ► of bargain and power that that's what i think and then it benefits the user right if if you can get a

00:32:34 ◼   ► netflix subscription on the app store that is beneficial to the end user but the way that

00:32:41 ◼   ► things have gone using amazon as the example that is not beneficial to the end user because the fact

00:32:46 ◼   ► that you can't buy a kindle book in the kindle app is just wrong like it's not weird it's not crazy

00:32:52 ◼   ► it's just wrong you should be able to buy content for the app in the app if it's available on the web

00:33:00 ◼   ► you can buy a paper book in the amazon app yeah using in-app purchase using app using amazon's

00:33:07 ◼   ► purchasing system not apple's purchasing system and it's okay because it's a physical book but you

00:33:13 ◼   ► can't do that with an ebook because apple has decided that all digital content should have a cut

00:33:18 ◼   ► for apple i mean they could decide a different way now i wanted to mention one one thing you said there is

00:33:22 ◼   ► you know basically sort of staying out of apple's apple's business in some ways i think part of the

00:33:27 ◼   ► problem here is that there is a smartphone platform duopoly yeah that's part of the problem it might be

00:33:35 ◼   ► different if apple was selling a kind of like a cult device with eight percent market share and one in

00:33:42 ◼   ► control of its platform also it wouldn't it would probably try harder to be better because it would

00:33:48 ◼   ► not be sitting pretty um but that's not the case we are in a if you want a smartphone you're either

00:33:54 ◼   ► under google's rules or apple's rules uh which is not great and and i i am very open to the argument

00:33:59 ◼   ► that if you build a platform that has an open essentially uh third party software experience

00:34:07 ◼   ► that it's more burdensome on you to allow the third parties to make some choices than uh than what apple

00:34:17 ◼   ► is doing here and i i am actually very much in the belief that that's true that like if you if you make

00:34:23 ◼   ► a widget and you make it all yourself that's fine yeah but if you're benefiting from bringing in other

00:34:29 ◼   ► people to your platform the rules change and apple is that plus so powerful now that i feel like

00:34:37 ◼   ► access to uh to their platform is uh is required and i mean but i've already i'm on the i'm on the

00:34:45 ◼   ► record as saying i think that they need to use the mac model and have an app store and then let people

00:34:49 ◼   ► not use the app store i agree period yeah i i'm i mean i've also said it before too if like i think

00:34:55 ◼   ► once you get to a certain size you lose freedom right and apple is so large you have to lose some

00:35:03 ◼   ► of the freedom that i have otherwise believed that a business should have but i think once you get to

00:35:07 ◼   ► a certain point where you become intrinsically important for a large large swath of society to

00:35:14 ◼   ► operate that's the dma argument yeah you have lost the ability to be able to set any and every rule that

00:35:20 ◼   ► you would like to here's the thing right about this kind of stuff about like my idea of like business

00:35:24 ◼   ► issue it's all gray areas it's all none of this should be set in stone like everything has to be

00:35:30 ◼   ► treated case by case it differs everywhere always all the time none of this stuff is easy right and so

00:35:36 ◼   ► i just feel like apple was at the size and at the scale that they're so important that they can't just

00:35:43 ◼   ► do whatever they want and that is how we've ended up in this scenario so as well as the appeal that apple

00:35:49 ◼   ► have already filed for this entire ruling that judge gonzalez rogers gave them they have also filed an

00:35:57 ◼   ► emergency motion with the ninth circuit court of appeals to pause the ruling until the appeal process

00:36:04 ◼   ► is concluded so they have appealed it to try and get it overturned but now they're saying until that

00:36:10 ◼   ► appeal is completed we don't want to abide by these rules and we want to switch things back to how they

00:36:15 ◼   ► were um apple have i think asked or it's being set that this will be decided before the 28th of may

00:36:22 ◼   ► uh as to whether this will continue and i just i find all this just like just let it go but that's

00:36:28 ◼   ► not how it works but there's just a part of just let it go just let it go but it's not how it works and

00:36:32 ◼   ► it can't work that way i understand i'm not a lawyer and also judges can decide what they want to decide

00:36:37 ◼   ► that's the truth of it but what i would say is it strikes me that this will be a tougher thing for

00:36:41 ◼   ► them to argue because it's punitive about them failing they've been found in contempt and so to say

00:36:47 ◼   ► well we've we've been in contempt but don't do this thing we already implemented make us unimplemented

00:36:52 ◼   ► for a while while we get away with this i get the feeling that judges will probably not be as positive

00:36:58 ◼   ► about the idea of temporarily staying a punitive decision because of a finding of contempt right like

00:37:06 ◼   ► it seems that seems to be again from my little non-lawyer perspective like this is going to be

00:37:12 ◼   ► a tougher argument for them but uh you know it only takes all that needs to happen is that a judge

00:37:17 ◼   ► or a panel of judges just need to agree like if you get the right judges and they they decide that then

00:37:24 ◼   ► that's what it'll be uh so other apps have done some interesting things delta the emulator app

00:37:30 ◼   ► um has now added the ability well then they've yet they're very prominently featuring their patreon

00:37:37 ◼   ► as the way to support the app um so like this is just in the us so if i open the app here in the uk

00:37:42 ◼   ► it doesn't have this it can't have this but if you go to the app and you go to the like the main screen

00:37:46 ◼   ► it's like hey support our development sign up for our patreon but they were told by app review

00:37:52 ◼   ► they still have to include apple's in-app purchase if they're now going to suggest that people should

00:37:57 ◼   ► give them money so they've added i just think i think this is funny i think i think that the the

00:38:03 ◼   ► gang over uh alt store they like to poke at apple uh sometimes sometimes they do it better than others

00:38:09 ◼   ► and i think this is a great one they have included under a button that says alternative payment methods

00:38:15 ◼   ► another screen this is at the very bottom of the settings screen of the app another screen will pop up

00:38:20 ◼   ► which will let you sign up within that purchase a thing that uh they would not have been able to get

00:38:25 ◼   ► approved a couple of weeks ago but i think correct app review are very nervous right now is my feeling

00:38:32 ◼   ► and basically they have they have done the bare minimum and it has worked for them which i think is

00:38:37 ◼   ► fantastic i feel like this is something we mentioned in passing last time which is my understanding is

00:38:43 ◼   ► you still have to offer yes in that purchase in a bunch of places but it doesn't say where so you can put it

00:38:48 ◼   ► in that you know in the back of the closet down in the you know the last screen well but here's the

00:38:53 ◼   ► thing what about kindle though well kindle they're not it's it i think it's different but yes that's

00:39:00 ◼   ► that's the question uh i don't know i don't know the answer here's the thing i don't think that would

00:39:04 ◼   ► have been different right that if before this ruling if amazon did that apple would say give us our

00:39:10 ◼   ► money probably so but amazon are getting through because they're amazon it may be different because it's

00:39:16 ◼   ► it's a reader app it's a different it's got a different kind of thing and they have an existing

00:39:19 ◼   ► storefront on the outside it's a little bit it's a little bit different and that may be all or it

00:39:23 ◼   ► may be that app review is in disarray and they're not going to reject anything now i think they're in

00:39:27 ◼   ► disarray because i i feel like if if amazon would have done this a month ago apple would say give us

00:39:35 ◼   ► our money otherwise they would have done it before now right yeah like i i feel like that this is

00:39:41 ◼   ► there are i'm sure many gray areas but i just i feel like i my feeling looking at what's going on

00:39:47 ◼   ► right now is that app review i've kind of just been told that like we need to let it all through here

00:39:54 ◼   ► we need to be let it all through and smaller developers that they're putting up a block but

00:39:58 ◼   ► bigger ones yeah i know you say that but but they push back on delta right well but they're a smaller

00:40:03 ◼   ► developer i i think that they can can kind of push on them i don't know i i really don't know but he's

00:40:09 ◼   ► the thing i don't know right like it doesn't seem to make complete sense to me the way that they're

00:40:13 ◼   ► going about everything i should also say this ruling is so specific it doesn't solve everything

00:40:19 ◼   ► amazon having a a link to buy a book that opens safari to your amazon screen for that book so that you

00:40:26 ◼   ► can buy it and then go back to the uh the kindle app and get the book is not the ideal

00:40:35 ◼   ► situation no the ideal situation should be like the amazon.com app yeah where if you want to buy

00:40:41 ◼   ► something you just buy it and you never leave the app yeah but that's against the rules because that

00:40:47 ◼   ► hasn't been you know hasn't been uh made illegal i mean there's even a step before that it just opens

00:40:52 ◼   ► a safari view controller window but it can't they can't do that either they do that either even though

00:40:57 ◼   ► the best thing to do is it's like buying something a physical book on the amazon app right where you

00:41:03 ◼   ► just press the button and this is all the residue of apple and the judge like apple get being given

00:41:11 ◼   ► some latitude in their policies by the judge which is why the argument that uh the judge's ruling has

00:41:16 ◼   ► taken away apple's ability to control and monetize their iap and whatever like that's why i again as a

00:41:23 ◼   ► not judge judge would be deeply skeptical of apple's claims because it seems to me like a lot of apple's

00:41:30 ◼   ► proposals were accepted like she didn't say you can't you have to just let people build code in to

00:41:38 ◼   ► charge credit cards she didn't say that she just said you can't you got to let them go out to the web

00:41:43 ◼   ► with whatever link they want and and the policy about no uh no safari web view inside the app

00:41:51 ◼   ► remains right like that that wasn't invalidated so like apple still gets to sort of like control the

00:41:58 ◼   ► way you do this they just don't get to uh outlaw you know non-static links and demand that amazon

00:42:08 ◼   ► audit you know its books and provide kickbacks to apple so we had a lot of discussion last time about

00:42:17 ◼   ► what epic we're going to do about fortnite because they've been saying fortnite's coming back and we

00:42:22 ◼   ► were questioning how what they have done i think it's is even what i said what i thought or i was just

00:42:29 ◼   ► thinking it they would use the app store uh the developer account that they have for distribution

00:42:37 ◼   ► of their alternative app store in europe so they have a new developer account which they're using

00:42:43 ◼   ► for the uh alternative app store and and fortnite and all that the epic game stuff that exists

00:42:49 ◼   ► because of the dma because their old account was gotten rid of right it was disabled by apple as

00:42:56 ◼   ► breach of the term so they'd set up a new one yes so they have confirmed uh on friday fortnite was

00:43:04 ◼   ► submitted to the app store for distribution in the u.s from the eu account so as of recording now

00:43:10 ◼   ► we're waiting to see what happens i want to get a sense from you yes or no does apple approve fortnite

00:43:19 ◼   ► this is going to be one of those questions about whether how much in disarray apple is and i think

00:43:28 ◼   ► this is high profile enough that it's not going to be an app reviewer it's going to be somebody

00:43:31 ◼   ► high up possibly even phil schiller level saying what are we going to do about this my gut feeling is

00:43:38 ◼   ► that epic doesn't have a leg to stand on and that the apple's just going to say no we told you you

00:43:43 ◼   ► you're in violation of our terms and you're only in the eu uh this entity is only able to upload this

00:43:49 ◼   ► thing in the eu uh because of the dma um this entity exists because of the dma in europe in the u.s you

00:43:56 ◼   ► are still under the terms of your old agreement uh because you are a uh you know a subsidiary of the

00:44:03 ◼   ► company that used this very code to break the agreement and so we're not going to let you i think

00:44:09 ◼   ► that is the most likely scenario because it's true if it gets in that says something about how apple is

00:44:16 ◼   ► reeling from all of these rulings right um and that it is trying not to poke the bear but because

00:44:25 ◼   ► the okay the the upside of letting this thing in is it's one less controversy and you get a popular

00:44:35 ◼   ► game on your platform again it's not bad the downside of this is that you're kind of saying

00:44:46 ◼   ► that your ability to keep things out of the app store is lessened and i don't know if they want to

00:44:56 ◼   ► say that so i i i my gut feeling is that they'll just say no this the judge's ruling says nothing about

00:45:03 ◼   ► you being in the app store um and if they say yes it suggests that there is a lot of recriminations

00:45:09 ◼   ► going on at apple right now i think they're gonna let it in um i don't think that it will be an easier

00:45:17 ◼   ► decision i think it will be a decision that they will make because they want to show that they're willing

00:45:23 ◼   ► to play ball right because they've gotten in trouble now and so i think it would show the legal system

00:45:30 ◼   ► that they're willing to change right and they're willing to be better people than they were before

00:45:35 ◼   ► but i think it will come with a statement either from apple or epic which is said that in any scenario

00:45:42 ◼   ► in which the rules change epic have to remove the purchase methods that they put in the app

00:45:53 ◼   ► that's what i that's where i think it will come down to if if they allow it in

00:45:57 ◼   ► said it and it will remain like that you can buy your vbucks on the web

00:46:01 ◼   ► as long as like provided that this remains that's what i think will happen there is this weird scenario

00:46:08 ◼   ► i heard someone say this on a podcast as if this was fact but it's not fact but it was an interesting

00:46:12 ◼   ► thought exercise which was the thing that epic did broke the rules but as of the rules that currently

00:46:20 ◼   ► exist as opposed upon apple it's perfectly legal

00:46:23 ◼   ► now i'm not saying that that means they should let it in

00:46:28 ◼   ► but that's where it gets awkward is that yeah

00:46:31 ◼   ► they broke the rules but this is a different developer account

00:46:36 ◼   ► where they're submitting an app a game which based on the current

00:46:40 ◼   ► rules that have been set forth by the judge is perfectly

00:46:44 ◼   ► legal so is the situation that i mean i don't know what the terms say but if you broke the rules

00:46:52 ◼   ► on one account are you blackballed from ever creating another developer you are but they have

00:46:57 ◼   ► one though but they have one but they would say well this is the thing this is why it's up to them

00:47:02 ◼   ► it's up to apple yeah because there are lots of excuses they could use they could say well you know

00:47:09 ◼   ► they they have a new account and that is a developer in good standing we've decided to treat it that way

00:47:14 ◼   ► and they are in the eu store and we're gonna this is just for the u.s store and

00:47:18 ◼   ► and and like you said this is only because of the rules in the u.s and if those rules change we expect them to follow or be removed

00:47:25 ◼   ► they could do all of that right they could do all of that so

00:47:28 ◼   ► maybe those are all good excuses they could use they could also just say

00:47:33 ◼   ► nothing has changed in terms of the fact that the fact is that epic

00:47:36 ◼   ► broke our rules

00:47:38 ◼   ► and it doesn't matter that the rules have changed now they willfully broke our rules

00:47:43 ◼   ► and so

00:47:44 ◼   ► we

00:47:45 ◼   ► are

00:47:46 ◼   ► not

00:47:47 ◼   ► willing to do business with them unless we're legally forced to the downside of that like i said

00:47:51 ◼   ► is

00:47:51 ◼   ► what if that means they're going to be legally forced to because that is bad because then they lose yet another

00:47:56 ◼   ► piece of control

00:47:57 ◼   ► because of their

00:47:59 ◼   ► obstinance so we'll see

00:48:00 ◼   ► i think that it is in there are lots of ways in which this is in good interest to apple to have epic back on the app store

00:48:07 ◼   ► fortnite is the biggest game in the world

00:48:09 ◼   ► that's the number one reason to allow it is just that it's it's a very popular game and you

00:48:14 ◼   ► you should just get it back on your platforms and just sort of like

00:48:17 ◼   ► say okay a lot of water under the bridge they're doing this differently

00:48:21 ◼   ► it's only going to be in the u.s though it's not going to be anywhere else

00:48:24 ◼   ► yep

00:48:24 ◼   ► but

00:48:25 ◼   ► it's a it's a start

00:48:27 ◼   ► and uh analyst firm app figures issued a report last week that apple made 10 billion dollars from u.s app store commissions in 2024

00:48:37 ◼   ► um i'm usually very hesitant to pay much attention to these kinds of reports because i just don't know how you could actually get that number

00:48:44 ◼   ► um

00:48:45 ◼   ► but even as an indicator i just thought it was an interesting thing to consider

00:48:49 ◼   ► uh app figures estimates that four billion dollars of this is games the rest is like app subscriptions

00:48:55 ◼   ► and it was just a thought like how much of this would go away under this scenario if it was half

00:49:01 ◼   ► right let's just imagine it's half um which is still a huge number but five billion dollars of profit

00:49:08 ◼   ► would is quite a lot of money

00:49:12 ◼   ► and i would show it is

00:49:15 ◼   ► it is um

00:49:17 ◼   ► this is where

00:49:18 ◼   ► i so i looked at some of these numbers

00:49:21 ◼   ► and this is where i

00:49:23 ◼   ► understand why apple is behaving this way

00:49:27 ◼   ► and i think this is important

00:49:29 ◼   ► i can disagree with all the details of what apple has done policy wise

00:49:33 ◼   ► but by if you look at the numbers

00:49:36 ◼   ► i think you can understand why

00:49:38 ◼   ► executives

00:49:40 ◼   ► and people in finance

00:49:41 ◼   ► are

00:49:43 ◼   ► concerned

00:49:44 ◼   ► about this

00:49:45 ◼   ► because

00:49:46 ◼   ► 10

00:49:48 ◼   ► if it's true that it's 10 billion dollars

00:49:51 ◼   ► in services revenue

00:49:52 ◼   ► in 2024

00:49:54 ◼   ► just from the u.s

00:49:56 ◼   ► from u.s app store commissions

00:49:58 ◼   ► that's a lot of money

00:50:00 ◼   ► yeah

00:50:01 ◼   ► and you're like oh yes well

00:50:02 ◼   ► but apple

00:50:04 ◼   ► you know

00:50:05 ◼   ► has so much more revenue

00:50:06 ◼   ► that it doesn't matter

00:50:07 ◼   ► well think about it this way

00:50:08 ◼   ► that 10 billion is mostly profit

00:50:10 ◼   ► right

00:50:11 ◼   ► because it's just

00:50:12 ◼   ► they're just skimming

00:50:13 ◼   ► off the top

00:50:14 ◼   ► and you can argue

00:50:15 ◼   ► yeah well we you know

00:50:15 ◼   ► amortize the cost of the internet purchase

00:50:17 ◼   ► people in the world

00:50:18 ◼   ► people working on the frameworks

00:50:19 ◼   ► or whatever

00:50:19 ◼   ► but let's just say

00:50:20 ◼   ► it's basically profit

00:50:21 ◼   ► they did 200 billion

00:50:24 ◼   ► in iphone revenue last year

00:50:26 ◼   ► and if we

00:50:28 ◼   ► ballpark that's like

00:50:30 ◼   ► 75 80 billion dollars in profit

00:50:32 ◼   ► okay

00:50:33 ◼   ► 80 billion dollars in profit

00:50:36 ◼   ► is a lot

00:50:36 ◼   ► don't get me wrong

00:50:37 ◼   ► but

00:50:38 ◼   ► put in perspective

00:50:40 ◼   ► it is not like

00:50:41 ◼   ► the iphone is

00:50:43 ◼   ► 20 30 40 times

00:50:44 ◼   ► as profitable

00:50:45 ◼   ► as the

00:50:46 ◼   ► as the app store

00:50:47 ◼   ► commissions

00:50:49 ◼   ► it's

00:50:49 ◼   ► it's actually not

00:50:50 ◼   ► it's

00:50:51 ◼   ► eight times

00:50:52 ◼   ► as profitable

00:50:52 ◼   ► maybe seven times

00:50:53 ◼   ► as profitable

00:50:54 ◼   ► well when

00:50:55 ◼   ► when you're thinking about that

00:50:56 ◼   ► you start to think

00:50:57 ◼   ► oh wow

00:50:58 ◼   ► apple's most profitable thing

00:50:59 ◼   ► is 80

00:51:00 ◼   ► and then this is 10

00:51:02 ◼   ► and we lose

00:51:03 ◼   ► half or all of that 10

00:51:04 ◼   ► that really hurts

00:51:06 ◼   ► and it does

00:51:06 ◼   ► there's no doubt about it

00:51:07 ◼   ► uh but

00:51:08 ◼   ► but wait there's more

00:51:09 ◼   ► it

00:51:11 ◼   ► because of the google search thing

00:51:12 ◼   ► which is also in jeopardy

00:51:14 ◼   ► that's reportedly

00:51:16 ◼   ► 20 billion dollars

00:51:17 ◼   ► that's also

00:51:17 ◼   ► i would argue

00:51:18 ◼   ► basically pure profit

00:51:20 ◼   ► from google

00:51:22 ◼   ► for search revenue

00:51:22 ◼   ► it is

00:51:23 ◼   ► it's pure profit

00:51:24 ◼   ► what are they doing

00:51:25 ◼   ► what are they doing

00:51:25 ◼   ► look

00:51:26 ◼   ► they will say

00:51:27 ◼   ► that safari

00:51:28 ◼   ► they'll put some percentage

00:51:29 ◼   ► of safari development

00:51:30 ◼   ► against it

00:51:31 ◼   ► and all that

00:51:31 ◼   ► i'm just saying

00:51:32 ◼   ► because

00:51:33 ◼   ► i have to say it

00:51:34 ◼   ► i have to say it this way

00:51:36 ◼   ► because somebody will say

00:51:36 ◼   ► you know that's not true

00:51:38 ◼   ► they have developers

00:51:39 ◼   ► who work on those features

00:51:40 ◼   ► and it's not pure profit

00:51:41 ◼   ► the notes app

00:51:42 ◼   ► is not subsidized

00:51:43 ◼   ► from a deal

00:51:44 ◼   ► from anybody else

00:51:45 ◼   ► right like

00:51:45 ◼   ► it is

00:51:46 ◼   ► pure

00:51:47 ◼   ► profit

00:51:47 ◼   ► by any stretch

00:51:49 ◼   ► of the imagination

00:51:49 ◼   ► if you want to say

00:51:51 ◼   ► it's not really

00:51:52 ◼   ► 30 billion dollars a year

00:51:53 ◼   ► pure profit

00:51:53 ◼   ► from the app store

00:51:54 ◼   ► and search

00:51:54 ◼   ► it's actually

00:51:55 ◼   ► 29.8

00:51:57 ◼   ► okay

00:51:58 ◼   ► i'm gonna round it

00:51:59 ◼   ► back up to 30

00:52:00 ◼   ► 30 billion a year

00:52:01 ◼   ► so apple

00:52:02 ◼   ► made 95 billion dollars

00:52:05 ◼   ► in total profit

00:52:06 ◼   ► last year

00:52:06 ◼   ► 30 billion

00:52:08 ◼   ► was from search

00:52:10 ◼   ► and u.s app store

00:52:12 ◼   ► commissions

00:52:12 ◼   ► as bad

00:52:13 ◼   ► and that

00:52:15 ◼   ► is why

00:52:16 ◼   ► they're worried

00:52:17 ◼   ► and that is why

00:52:18 ◼   ► they're behaving

00:52:19 ◼   ► the way they are

00:52:20 ◼   ► and we can still

00:52:21 ◼   ► say that they're

00:52:21 ◼   ► behaving badly

00:52:22 ◼   ► and also i would say

00:52:24 ◼   ► we're not really

00:52:24 ◼   ► arguing that they

00:52:25 ◼   ► should have nothing

00:52:26 ◼   ► right that's not it

00:52:27 ◼   ► the argument is

00:52:28 ◼   ► they should compete

00:52:29 ◼   ► and that they should

00:52:29 ◼   ► make their products

00:52:30 ◼   ► better and they will

00:52:31 ◼   ► lose some money

00:52:31 ◼   ► but they won't lose

00:52:32 ◼   ► all of it

00:52:33 ◼   ► because they have

00:52:33 ◼   ► a huge home field

00:52:34 ◼   ► advantage

00:52:34 ◼   ► they have so many

00:52:35 ◼   ► different ways

00:52:35 ◼   ► where they're

00:52:36 ◼   ► advantaged

00:52:36 ◼   ► and even in the u.s.

00:52:37 ◼   ► where the judge

00:52:38 ◼   ► is very angry

00:52:39 ◼   ► with them

00:52:40 ◼   ► they're still

00:52:41 ◼   ► allowed to do

00:52:41 ◼   ► things like

00:52:42 ◼   ► push the

00:52:43 ◼   ► push it into safari

00:52:45 ◼   ► instead of allowing

00:52:46 ◼   ► them to build

00:52:46 ◼   ► it in the iap

00:52:47 ◼   ► so they've got

00:52:48 ◼   ► lots of advantages

00:52:49 ◼   ► there if they

00:52:50 ◼   ► want to compete

00:52:50 ◼   ► but you can

00:52:52 ◼   ► see why

00:52:52 ◼   ► they're worried

00:52:53 ◼   ► because if

00:52:54 ◼   ► they lose

00:52:55 ◼   ► all

00:52:55 ◼   ► which they're

00:52:56 ◼   ► not

00:52:56 ◼   ► i mean

00:52:57 ◼   ► even if

00:52:57 ◼   ► they're ordered

00:52:58 ◼   ► to not do

00:52:59 ◼   ► business with

00:52:59 ◼   ► google

00:53:00 ◼   ► and take

00:53:01 ◼   ► money from

00:53:01 ◼   ► google anymore

00:53:02 ◼   ► for search

00:53:02 ◼   ► search is

00:53:04 ◼   ► valuable

00:53:05 ◼   ► and they will

00:53:06 ◼   ► make that money

00:53:06 ◼   ► back with their

00:53:07 ◼   ► own advertising

00:53:07 ◼   ► or with another

00:53:08 ◼   ► partner or set

00:53:09 ◼   ► of partners

00:53:09 ◼   ► they will get

00:53:10 ◼   ► that money

00:53:10 ◼   ► back

00:53:10 ◼   ► so it's not

00:53:11 ◼   ► going to be

00:53:12 ◼   ► 30 billion

00:53:12 ◼   ► maybe but it

00:53:13 ◼   ► will be a lot

00:53:13 ◼   ► of money

00:53:14 ◼   ► but let's

00:53:14 ◼   ► just say

00:53:14 ◼   ► it's nothing

00:53:15 ◼   ► they will

00:53:15 ◼   ► make money

00:53:16 ◼   ► back

00:53:16 ◼   ► yeah

00:53:16 ◼   ► well it won't

00:53:17 ◼   ► be right

00:53:18 ◼   ► so it won't

00:53:19 ◼   ► be 30 billion

00:53:19 ◼   ► but it won't

00:53:20 ◼   ► be zero

00:53:21 ◼   ► it will be

00:53:22 ◼   ► somewhere in

00:53:22 ◼   ► between

00:53:22 ◼   ► but just to

00:53:23 ◼   ► put it in

00:53:23 ◼   ► perspective

00:53:24 ◼   ► it's a third

00:53:25 ◼   ► of their

00:53:26 ◼   ► profit

00:53:27 ◼   ► is this

00:53:28 ◼   ► because it's

00:53:30 ◼   ► so profitable

00:53:31 ◼   ► it's basically

00:53:32 ◼   ► you know

00:53:33 ◼   ► there's no

00:53:34 ◼   ► overhead

00:53:34 ◼   ► this is just

00:53:35 ◼   ► it's a free

00:53:36 ◼   ► money coming

00:53:37 ◼   ► in

00:53:38 ◼   ► so that's why

00:53:39 ◼   ► they're worried

00:53:39 ◼   ► i get it

00:53:40 ◼   ► i get it

00:53:40 ◼   ► i also think

00:53:41 ◼   ► though that

00:53:42 ◼   ► they protest

00:53:43 ◼   ► too much

00:53:43 ◼   ► and they say

00:53:44 ◼   ► oh

00:53:44 ◼   ► 30 billion

00:53:45 ◼   ► we're gonna

00:53:46 ◼   ► lose it all

00:53:46 ◼   ► and it's like

00:53:46 ◼   ► no you're not

00:53:47 ◼   ► i just don't

00:53:48 ◼   ► believe you are

00:53:49 ◼   ► i believe if you

00:53:49 ◼   ► work hard

00:53:50 ◼   ► and are clever

00:53:51 ◼   ► you will keep

00:53:51 ◼   ► a lot of that

00:53:52 ◼   ► money but you're

00:53:52 ◼   ► gonna have to

00:53:53 ◼   ► work more than

00:53:53 ◼   ► you do now

00:53:54 ◼   ► for it

00:53:54 ◼   ► i know that's

00:53:55 ◼   ► hard but

00:53:55 ◼   ► it's 30

00:53:56 ◼   ► billion dollars

00:53:56 ◼   ► you could work

00:53:57 ◼   ► for it

00:53:57 ◼   ► but even if

00:53:58 ◼   ► you lost it

00:53:59 ◼   ► you still have

00:54:00 ◼   ► 65 billion dollars

00:54:01 ◼   ► of profit a year

00:54:02 ◼   ► yeah

00:54:03 ◼   ► that is a lot

00:54:04 ◼   ► of money

00:54:04 ◼   ► like what are

00:54:05 ◼   ► you doing

00:54:05 ◼   ► with that

00:54:06 ◼   ► like you know

00:54:07 ◼   ► like what

00:54:08 ◼   ► are you doing

00:54:08 ◼   ► with it

00:54:09 ◼   ► i would say

00:54:10 ◼   ► i would say

00:54:11 ◼   ► that that is

00:54:11 ◼   ► one of the toxic

00:54:12 ◼   ► things about this

00:54:13 ◼   ► this kind of money

00:54:14 ◼   ► is you just

00:54:14 ◼   ► get used to

00:54:15 ◼   ► having this

00:54:15 ◼   ► free money

00:54:15 ◼   ► coming in

00:54:16 ◼   ► and it's like

00:54:17 ◼   ► well we can

00:54:18 ◼   ► make our 80

00:54:18 ◼   ► billion if we

00:54:18 ◼   ► consider the

00:54:19 ◼   ► iphone and

00:54:19 ◼   ► the app store

00:54:20 ◼   ► the same thing

00:54:20 ◼   ► which to a

00:54:21 ◼   ► certain degree

00:54:21 ◼   ► they are

00:54:22 ◼   ► um you know

00:54:23 ◼   ► it makes an

00:54:24 ◼   ► 80 billion dollar

00:54:25 ◼   ► profit 90

00:54:26 ◼   ► billion dollars

00:54:26 ◼   ► well that's

00:54:27 ◼   ► way better

00:54:28 ◼   ► so hooray for

00:54:30 ◼   ► it why would

00:54:30 ◼   ► we ever forgo

00:54:31 ◼   ► that whereas

00:54:32 ◼   ► somebody else

00:54:32 ◼   ► might argue

00:54:33 ◼   ► you're already

00:54:34 ◼   ► making 80

00:54:35 ◼   ► billion dollars

00:54:36 ◼   ► a year

00:54:36 ◼   ► on iphones

00:54:37 ◼   ► it's okay

00:54:39 ◼   ► it's fine

00:54:40 ◼   ► to not make

00:54:41 ◼   ► 90

00:54:41 ◼   ► it's fine

00:54:42 ◼   ► it's totally

00:54:43 ◼   ► like what are

00:54:43 ◼   ► you even

00:54:44 ◼   ► spending on

00:54:44 ◼   ► it's not

00:54:45 ◼   ► it's not

00:54:45 ◼   ► make 80

00:54:46 ◼   ► instead of 90

00:54:46 ◼   ► it's make 85

00:54:48 ◼   ► instead of 90

00:54:49 ◼   ► or 87

00:54:49 ◼   ► instead of 90

00:54:50 ◼   ► it's not

00:54:51 ◼   ► make 80

00:54:53 ◼   ► instead of 90

00:54:53 ◼   ► but still

00:54:54 ◼   ► it's 80

00:54:55 ◼   ► billion dollars

00:54:56 ◼   ► in profit

00:54:56 ◼   ► and i get

00:54:57 ◼   ► why if you're

00:54:57 ◼   ► a cfo

00:54:57 ◼   ► if you're

00:54:58 ◼   ► somebody who's

00:54:59 ◼   ► interested in

00:55:00 ◼   ► keeping wall

00:55:01 ◼   ► street happy

00:55:01 ◼   ► having a

00:55:03 ◼   ► a whole year

00:55:05 ◼   ► where your

00:55:05 ◼   ► year over

00:55:06 ◼   ► years are

00:55:06 ◼   ► way down

00:55:07 ◼   ► because you've

00:55:07 ◼   ► lost this

00:55:08 ◼   ► revenue stream

00:55:09 ◼   ► i get why

00:55:10 ◼   ► you hate that

00:55:11 ◼   ► but as an

00:55:12 ◼   ► outside observer

00:55:13 ◼   ► i look at that

00:55:13 ◼   ► and say

00:55:14 ◼   ► you know

00:55:14 ◼   ► you'll probably

00:55:15 ◼   ► be okay

00:55:16 ◼   ► and if you

00:55:17 ◼   ► fight

00:55:18 ◼   ► and if you

00:55:19 ◼   ► work hard

00:55:19 ◼   ► and if you

00:55:20 ◼   ► compete

00:55:20 ◼   ► it's not

00:55:21 ◼   ► gonna go

00:55:22 ◼   ► like because

00:55:23 ◼   ► there's a lot

00:55:23 ◼   ► of this argument

00:55:24 ◼   ► is like oh

00:55:25 ◼   ► if apple's ever

00:55:25 ◼   ► allowed to compete

00:55:26 ◼   ► they're gonna

00:55:27 ◼   ► get nothing

00:55:28 ◼   ► it's like well

00:55:29 ◼   ► in their current

00:55:29 ◼   ► policies if they

00:55:30 ◼   ► stay the same

00:55:31 ◼   ► maybe

00:55:32 ◼   ► but that's not

00:55:34 ◼   ► gonna happen

00:55:34 ◼   ► they're gonna

00:55:34 ◼   ► compete

00:55:35 ◼   ► and they've got

00:55:36 ◼   ► a lot of

00:55:36 ◼   ► advantages as the

00:55:37 ◼   ► platform owner

00:55:37 ◼   ► so they're still

00:55:39 ◼   ► gonna make a lot

00:55:39 ◼   ► of money from

00:55:40 ◼   ► this even if

00:55:41 ◼   ► it's not

00:55:41 ◼   ► all of it

00:55:43 ◼   ► we're talking

00:55:45 ◼   ► about the google

00:55:45 ◼   ► thing just a

00:55:47 ◼   ► couple of things

00:55:47 ◼   ► real quick

00:55:48 ◼   ► eddie q took

00:55:48 ◼   ► the stand

00:55:49 ◼   ► in google's

00:55:50 ◼   ► antitrust case

00:55:51 ◼   ► last week

00:55:51 ◼   ► and came

00:55:52 ◼   ► and from that

00:55:54 ◼   ► came a few

00:55:54 ◼   ► pieces of news

00:55:55 ◼   ► god i love

00:55:56 ◼   ► i love that

00:55:57 ◼   ► guy he just

00:55:57 ◼   ► doesn't care

00:55:58 ◼   ► incredible i love

00:55:58 ◼   ► him q testified

00:55:59 ◼   ► that in april

00:56:00 ◼   ► 2025 apple

00:56:02 ◼   ► saw a decline

00:56:02 ◼   ► in google searches

00:56:03 ◼   ► in safari for

00:56:04 ◼   ► the first time

00:56:05 ◼   ► ever this led

00:56:06 ◼   ► to q they're

00:56:07 ◼   ► mentioning that

00:56:07 ◼   ► apple was

00:56:08 ◼   ► looking uh

00:56:09 ◼   ► into ai

00:56:10 ◼   ► search as

00:56:11 ◼   ► future alternatives

00:56:12 ◼   ► as this was

00:56:13 ◼   ► kind of you

00:56:13 ◼   ► know he was

00:56:14 ◼   ► indicating that

00:56:17 ◼   ► this might be a

00:56:18 ◼   ► reason why that

00:56:19 ◼   ► it was happening

00:56:20 ◼   ► and it said

00:56:21 ◼   ► that they've

00:56:21 ◼   ► been in

00:56:22 ◼   ► discussion with

00:56:22 ◼   ► perplexity

00:56:23 ◼   ► anthropic and

00:56:24 ◼   ► open ai

00:56:24 ◼   ► is potentially

00:56:25 ◼   ► putting them

00:56:26 ◼   ► in a search

00:56:26 ◼   ► engine partners

00:56:27 ◼   ► in the future

00:56:27 ◼   ► google stock

00:56:29 ◼   ► fell they did

00:56:30 ◼   ► damaging control

00:56:31 ◼   ► um damage

00:56:32 ◼   ► control and

00:56:33 ◼   ► you know google

00:56:34 ◼   ► had like oh

00:56:35 ◼   ► overall queries

00:56:36 ◼   ► from apple

00:56:37 ◼   ► devices are going

00:56:38 ◼   ► up probably

00:56:38 ◼   ► partly because

00:56:39 ◼   ► and if you use

00:56:40 ◼   ► google on your

00:56:41 ◼   ► on your iphone at

00:56:42 ◼   ► the moment but

00:56:42 ◼   ► it is it's

00:56:43 ◼   ► it's maddening

00:56:44 ◼   ► every time you do

00:56:44 ◼   ► a google search

00:56:45 ◼   ► and like hey

00:56:46 ◼   ► download our app

00:56:46 ◼   ► and the button

00:56:47 ◼   ► to download the

00:56:48 ◼   ► app is continue

00:56:50 ◼   ► so bad like

00:56:51 ◼   ► google i know

00:56:52 ◼   ► why they're doing

00:56:53 ◼   ► it but it's

00:56:53 ◼   ► terrible um

00:56:54 ◼   ► yep and i

00:56:56 ◼   ► feel like it's

00:56:56 ◼   ► been well

00:56:57 ◼   ► pointed out

00:56:57 ◼   ► across the

00:56:58 ◼   ► internet that

00:56:59 ◼   ► eddie gave

00:57:00 ◼   ► this piece of

00:57:00 ◼   ► information because

00:57:01 ◼   ► he wanted to

00:57:02 ◼   ► suggest that

00:57:02 ◼   ► apple and the

00:57:03 ◼   ► apple google

00:57:03 ◼   ► partnership is

00:57:04 ◼   ► not as

00:57:04 ◼   ► devastating to

00:57:05 ◼   ► competition as

00:57:07 ◼   ► people think

00:57:08 ◼   ► um but

00:57:09 ◼   ► nevertheless this

00:57:09 ◼   ► is very

00:57:10 ◼   ► interesting i

00:57:11 ◼   ► think yeah

00:57:12 ◼   ► google slicing

00:57:13 ◼   ► it the way they

00:57:14 ◼   ► did is

00:57:15 ◼   ► fascinating because

00:57:16 ◼   ► a lot of

00:57:16 ◼   ► people said okay

00:57:17 ◼   ► well these can

00:57:18 ◼   ► both be true

00:57:19 ◼   ► they are both

00:57:19 ◼   ► true eddie eddie

00:57:21 ◼   ► is shooting from

00:57:21 ◼   ► the hip but

00:57:22 ◼   ► he's basically

00:57:22 ◼   ► look our

00:57:23 ◼   ► safari referrals

00:57:24 ◼   ► you think eddie

00:57:24 ◼   ► q is not

00:57:25 ◼   ► keenly aware of

00:57:26 ◼   ► the growth of

00:57:27 ◼   ► safari referrals

00:57:28 ◼   ► to google given

00:57:29 ◼   ► the the 20

00:57:30 ◼   ► billion dollars

00:57:30 ◼   ► he's keenly

00:57:31 ◼   ► aware of it

00:57:31 ◼   ► so he says

00:57:32 ◼   ► that and

00:57:33 ◼   ► google's google

00:57:34 ◼   ► stock goes down

00:57:34 ◼   ► they're like no

00:57:35 ◼   ► no no no no

00:57:35 ◼   ► it's fine

00:57:36 ◼   ► if you know

00:57:37 ◼   ► from a certain

00:57:38 ◼   ► point of view

00:57:38 ◼   ► it's fine

00:57:39 ◼   ► the if you

00:57:40 ◼   ► consider all

00:57:41 ◼   ► queries on

00:57:42 ◼   ► those devices

00:57:43 ◼   ► we weren't

00:57:44 ◼   ► down and

00:57:45 ◼   ► it's like oh

00:57:46 ◼   ► well that's

00:57:47 ◼   ► because you are

00:57:48 ◼   ► pushing people to

00:57:49 ◼   ► your google app

00:57:49 ◼   ► and people

00:57:50 ◼   ► are using

00:57:51 ◼   ► you know

00:57:51 ◼   ► they're using

00:57:52 ◼   ► uh uh

00:57:53 ◼   ► ai you know

00:57:55 ◼   ► google and

00:57:55 ◼   ► google gemini

00:57:56 ◼   ► and whatever

00:57:56 ◼   ► and there are

00:57:57 ◼   ► other things on

00:57:57 ◼   ► the device that

00:57:58 ◼   ► are not coming

00:57:59 ◼   ► from safari

00:57:59 ◼   ► and like they

00:58:01 ◼   ► obfuscated that

00:58:03 ◼   ► in a way that i

00:58:04 ◼   ► think is probably

00:58:05 ◼   ► true

00:58:05 ◼   ► yes but it's

00:58:07 ◼   ► like what you're

00:58:08 ◼   ► saying is you

00:58:09 ◼   ► replace it with

00:58:10 ◼   ► the things that

00:58:10 ◼   ► don't make you

00:58:11 ◼   ► any money

00:58:12 ◼   ► which is the

00:58:13 ◼   ► problem

00:58:13 ◼   ► yeah so

00:58:15 ◼   ► whereas eddie q

00:58:17 ◼   ► just cares about

00:58:17 ◼   ► the money he

00:58:18 ◼   ► gets because

00:58:18 ◼   ► you know the

00:58:18 ◼   ► way the the

00:58:19 ◼   ► deal works is

00:58:20 ◼   ► that i believe

00:58:20 ◼   ► is basically

00:58:21 ◼   ► just it's

00:58:22 ◼   ► like selling

00:58:23 ◼   ► like the

00:58:24 ◼   ► other the

00:58:25 ◼   ► other month

00:58:25 ◼   ► and i don't

00:58:25 ◼   ► know why

00:58:26 ◼   ► somebody clicked

00:58:27 ◼   ► on a referral

00:58:28 ◼   ► link on six

00:58:29 ◼   ► colors to

00:58:29 ◼   ► amazon um

00:58:31 ◼   ► in a product

00:58:32 ◼   ► that i was

00:58:32 ◼   ► mentioning in

00:58:33 ◼   ► passing and

00:58:34 ◼   ► then seemed to

00:58:35 ◼   ► make a large

00:58:36 ◼   ► purchase in the

00:58:37 ◼   ► same session

00:58:37 ◼   ► and my amazon

00:58:39 ◼   ► i got an

00:58:39 ◼   ► enormous amount

00:58:40 ◼   ► of money for

00:58:41 ◼   ► amazon uh

00:58:43 ◼   ► that month

00:58:43 ◼   ► it's a little

00:58:44 ◼   ► like that right

00:58:45 ◼   ► it's like you

00:58:46 ◼   ► know there

00:58:47 ◼   ► there's no big

00:58:48 ◼   ► novelty check for

00:58:48 ◼   ► 20 billion dollars

00:58:49 ◼   ► that comes to

00:58:50 ◼   ► apple from google

00:58:51 ◼   ► every month or

00:58:51 ◼   ► every year it's

00:58:53 ◼   ► every single

00:58:54 ◼   ► search is a

00:58:56 ◼   ► little bit of

00:58:56 ◼   ► money and it

00:58:57 ◼   ► adds up that's

00:58:58 ◼   ► how it works and

00:58:58 ◼   ► so q knows that

00:59:00 ◼   ► count and he

00:59:01 ◼   ► knows what's

00:59:01 ◼   ► going on there

00:59:02 ◼   ► but the thing i

00:59:03 ◼   ► want to say about

00:59:04 ◼   ► eddie q is

00:59:04 ◼   ► these are not

00:59:07 ◼   ► the reason we

00:59:08 ◼   ► read these as

00:59:08 ◼   ► like calculated

00:59:09 ◼   ► apple pronouncements

00:59:10 ◼   ► and they're not

00:59:10 ◼   ► quite and he's

00:59:11 ◼   ► not a loose

00:59:12 ◼   ► canon but

00:59:13 ◼   ► what he's

00:59:13 ◼   ► doing is in

00:59:13 ◼   ► the context

00:59:14 ◼   ► of this uh

00:59:16 ◼   ► this court

00:59:17 ◼   ► interaction he's

00:59:20 ◼   ► saying things in

00:59:22 ◼   ► a very specific

00:59:22 ◼   ► way so like

00:59:23 ◼   ► when he talks

00:59:26 ◼   ► about it going

00:59:26 ◼   ► down what he's

00:59:27 ◼   ► saying is it's

00:59:27 ◼   ► not a it's not

00:59:28 ◼   ► a sure thing in

00:59:29 ◼   ► fact there's a

00:59:30 ◼   ► trend here because

00:59:31 ◼   ► it went down for

00:59:31 ◼   ► the first time he's

00:59:32 ◼   ► trying to say you

00:59:33 ◼   ► know we are in a

00:59:34 ◼   ► transition point and

00:59:35 ◼   ► when he talks

00:59:35 ◼   ► about other

00:59:36 ◼   ► alternatives he

00:59:38 ◼   ► says well you

00:59:39 ◼   ► know yeah it's

00:59:41 ◼   ► of course we're

00:59:43 ◼   ► talking to others

00:59:44 ◼   ► because we want

00:59:44 ◼   ► to always do

00:59:45 ◼   ► that and we

00:59:45 ◼   ► want to offer

00:59:46 ◼   ► that he's not

00:59:46 ◼   ► saying we're out

00:59:47 ◼   ► of business with

00:59:48 ◼   ► google he's

00:59:48 ◼   ► saying you know

00:59:49 ◼   ► we are always

00:59:50 ◼   ► discussing this

00:59:51 ◼   ► with partners so

00:59:52 ◼   ► don't make this

00:59:53 ◼   ► seem like it's a

00:59:54 ◼   ► it's a fixed

00:59:54 ◼   ► deal it's always a

00:59:57 ◼   ► moving target and

00:59:58 ◼   ► then the key thing

00:59:59 ◼   ► is then they're

01:00:00 ◼   ► like you know

01:00:02 ◼   ► about the future

01:00:03 ◼   ► and he says hey

01:00:04 ◼   ► it's the tech

01:00:05 ◼   ► industry you know

01:00:06 ◼   ► we had we had

01:00:07 ◼   ► ipods and then

01:00:08 ◼   ► you know then we

01:00:09 ◼   ► had iphones we

01:00:10 ◼   ► have iphones now

01:00:11 ◼   ► but it doesn't

01:00:12 ◼   ► mean we're going

01:00:12 ◼   ► to have them in

01:00:13 ◼   ► a decade and

01:00:14 ◼   ► everybody's like

01:00:14 ◼   ► eddie q said the

01:00:15 ◼   ► iphone might not

01:00:16 ◼   ► exist in a decade

01:00:17 ◼   ► it's like well

01:00:17 ◼   ► that's not what he

01:00:18 ◼   ► was saying he

01:00:19 ◼   ► was saying things

01:00:20 ◼   ► happen in the tech

01:00:22 ◼   ► industry and it

01:00:23 ◼   ► moves life comes at

01:00:24 ◼   ► you quick so to

01:00:25 ◼   ► speak and so you

01:00:27 ◼   ► know he's making

01:00:28 ◼   ► the argument that

01:00:29 ◼   ► that a lot of the

01:00:31 ◼   ► classic court rulings

01:00:32 ◼   ► in the tech industry

01:00:33 ◼   ► happen after it's

01:00:34 ◼   ► over and they're

01:00:35 ◼   ► trying to regulate

01:00:36 ◼   ► the thing that's

01:00:37 ◼   ► already over and

01:00:38 ◼   ► and that that this

01:00:40 ◼   ► is already a moving

01:00:41 ◼   ► target and yes it is

01:00:42 ◼   ► all self-serving but

01:00:44 ◼   ► he's not wrong i

01:00:45 ◼   ► still can't believe

01:00:46 ◼   ► that he said that

01:00:47 ◼   ► though i can't

01:00:47 ◼   ► believe that eddie

01:00:48 ◼   ► q apple executive

01:00:50 ◼   ► took the stand and

01:00:51 ◼   ► said you may not

01:00:51 ◼   ► need an iphone 10

01:00:52 ◼   ► years from now it's

01:00:53 ◼   ► just like i'm not

01:00:54 ◼   ► saying he's wrong

01:00:55 ◼   ► he's right it's a

01:00:57 ◼   ► wild thing for it

01:00:58 ◼   ► to hear from apple

01:00:59 ◼   ► say in public it's

01:01:00 ◼   ► just like an

01:01:01 ◼   ► incredible thing to

01:01:02 ◼   ► say i just in the

01:01:03 ◼   ► context of it it's

01:01:04 ◼   ► not that it's not

01:01:05 ◼   ► that crazy because

01:01:06 ◼   ► he's like things

01:01:06 ◼   ► move fast anything

01:01:07 ◼   ► could happen and

01:01:08 ◼   ► it's self-serving it

01:01:09 ◼   ► is completely self-serving

01:01:10 ◼   ► if you're the giant in

01:01:11 ◼   ► the industry to say

01:01:12 ◼   ► any day now we could

01:01:13 ◼   ► just be knocked off

01:01:13 ◼   ► our perch but he's

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01:03:05 ◼   ► of this show and all of

01:03:07 ◼   ► relay rumor round up

01:03:09 ◼   ► time yeah as part of

01:03:12 ◼   ► court proceedings a

01:03:13 ◼   ► couple of weeks ago the

01:03:14 ◼   ► case that we were just

01:03:15 ◼   ► mentioning sundar

01:03:16 ◼   ► pachai said that he's

01:03:17 ◼   ► hopeful that gemini will

01:03:18 ◼   ► be integrated into the

01:03:19 ◼   ► iphone this year just

01:03:21 ◼   ► like chat gpt is a quote

01:03:23 ◼   ► from bloomberg pachai said

01:03:24 ◼   ► he held a series of

01:03:25 ◼   ► conversations with tim

01:03:27 ◼   ► cook across 2024 and he

01:03:29 ◼   ► hopes to have a deal done

01:03:30 ◼   ► by the middle of the

01:03:30 ◼   ► year totally happening

01:03:31 ◼   ► for wwdc

01:03:33 ◼   ► it's interesting that this

01:03:36 ◼   ► took a year to do though

01:03:37 ◼   ► because craig fitter he

01:03:39 ◼   ► called gemini out or

01:03:40 ◼   ► google out on stage at the

01:03:42 ◼   ► talk show and it's taken

01:03:43 ◼   ► the mismanount of time to

01:03:44 ◼   ► get that deal done or

01:03:46 ◼   ► maybe this was a thing

01:03:47 ◼   ► they always thought they

01:03:48 ◼   ► would do in the future

01:03:48 ◼   ► but i think they always

01:03:50 ◼   ► thought they would do it

01:03:51 ◼   ► in the future i think

01:03:51 ◼   ► that they've had so much

01:03:52 ◼   ► ai stuff going on and

01:03:54 ◼   ► going wrong that they at

01:03:55 ◼   ► some point probably said

01:03:56 ◼   ► we're not going to even

01:03:57 ◼   ► get this in until the next

01:03:59 ◼   ► version of ios and then i

01:04:01 ◼   ► think they all agreed to

01:04:01 ◼   ► this and didn't sign

01:04:03 ◼   ► anything so that if they

01:04:04 ◼   ► were asked in court about

01:04:05 ◼   ► it they could say well

01:04:06 ◼   ► we're hopeful but we

01:04:07 ◼   ► haven't signed anything yet

01:04:08 ◼   ► and then you know they'll

01:04:09 ◼   ► sign a thing and i because

01:04:11 ◼   ► this sounds like this is

01:04:12 ◼   ► in the bag

01:04:12 ◼   ► the first thing that sundar

01:04:14 ◼   ► did when he left the

01:04:15 ◼   ► courtroom that day was

01:04:16 ◼   ► complete the docusign link

01:04:17 ◼   ► that he was sitting in

01:04:18 ◼   ► that's right sp it's in

01:04:20 ◼   ► there now according to

01:04:22 ◼   ► mark german apple has

01:04:24 ◼   ► been working with

01:04:24 ◼   ► anthropic to integrate its

01:04:26 ◼   ► clawed sonnet model into

01:04:27 ◼   ► xcode to create a quote

01:04:29 ◼   ► vibe coding tool that is

01:04:31 ◼   ► being distributed internally

01:04:33 ◼   ► uh here's the thing i'm

01:04:34 ◼   ► going to do a bit of

01:04:34 ◼   ► follow-out i don't really

01:04:35 ◼   ► understand what vibe

01:04:36 ◼   ► coding is federico does

01:04:37 ◼   ► we're going to ask him to

01:04:38 ◼   ► explain it to me on uh

01:04:39 ◼   ► connected this week great

01:04:41 ◼   ► that'll be good i have a

01:04:42 ◼   ► basic idea of what it is

01:04:44 ◼   ► but like i don't really

01:04:45 ◼   ► know anyway so but this is

01:04:46 ◼   ► a tool that would help

01:04:47 ◼   ► developers more easily

01:04:48 ◼   ► write and edit codes with

01:04:50 ◼   ► vibes with their own

01:04:51 ◼   ► vibes on the side of xcode

01:04:53 ◼   ► uh it's unknown at this

01:04:54 ◼   ► point if apple would

01:04:55 ◼   ► distribute it out to the

01:04:56 ◼   ► public or if it's just

01:04:57 ◼   ► gonna remain internal but

01:04:59 ◼   ► what i thought was

01:05:00 ◼   ► interesting about this is

01:05:01 ◼   ► it is an example of uh

01:05:02 ◼   ► the craig fiderigi

01:05:03 ◼   ► mandate that that had

01:05:05 ◼   ► been said uh to have a

01:05:07 ◼   ► code inside of apple that

01:05:08 ◼   ► they were considering

01:05:09 ◼   ► using things uh from

01:05:11 ◼   ► other ai partners where

01:05:12 ◼   ► they can kind of the

01:05:13 ◼   ► removing the not

01:05:14 ◼   ► invented here kind of

01:05:16 ◼   ► mentality that apple

01:05:17 ◼   ► would have on this

01:05:17 ◼   ► yeah it does make me

01:05:19 ◼   ► wonder there there were

01:05:20 ◼   ► other reports about that

01:05:21 ◼   ► that they they had that

01:05:22 ◼   ► xcode with the code

01:05:23 ◼   ► assistant thing that they

01:05:25 ◼   ► actually did show i was i

01:05:27 ◼   ► saw it yep gruber saw it

01:05:28 ◼   ► john vorhees saw it dan

01:05:30 ◼   ► morin saw it and uh that

01:05:32 ◼   ► hasn't really shipped and

01:05:33 ◼   ► maybe it won't

01:05:35 ◼   ► uh if they're doing that i

01:05:38 ◼   ► don't think so okay i don't

01:05:41 ◼   ► think it did so it's very

01:05:44 ◼   ► interesting that they're

01:05:45 ◼   ► like ah now we're using

01:05:46 ◼   ► claude and it works a lot

01:05:47 ◼   ► better yeah oh yeah yeah

01:05:51 ◼   ► and apple has advantage

01:05:52 ◼   ► the the whatever corpus

01:05:53 ◼   ► they've got of swift code

01:05:55 ◼   ► for example they could work

01:05:57 ◼   ► with partners to have that

01:06:00 ◼   ► be part of the training set

01:06:01 ◼   ► for future models and then

01:06:04 ◼   ► integrate those models which

01:06:05 ◼   ► might be a way for them to

01:06:06 ◼   ► do it too

01:06:07 ◼   ► that's wild you know i just

01:06:10 ◼   ► assumed that that came out

01:06:12 ◼   ► swift assist that's why

01:06:14 ◼   ► this this went by me

01:06:15 ◼   ► because i would not assume

01:06:17 ◼   ► that swift assist was ai in

01:06:20 ◼   ► xcode like to me swift

01:06:22 ◼   ► assist sounds like here's

01:06:24 ◼   ► your new way to do table

01:06:26 ◼   ► views like you know like in

01:06:27 ◼   ► my mind it's just like it

01:06:28 ◼   ► just flies straight out right

01:06:29 ◼   ► like i don't even really pay

01:06:30 ◼   ► attention to that i had just

01:06:32 ◼   ► assumed because this wasn't

01:06:33 ◼   ► one of the ones that we were

01:06:34 ◼   ► talking about i guess apple

01:06:35 ◼   ► didn't like actually say like

01:06:39 ◼   ► maybe this wasn't the ones

01:06:41 ◼   ► where they were like i know

01:06:42 ◼   ► we're just not we just ain't

01:06:43 ◼   ► gonna do that it's not there

01:06:44 ◼   ► it's not there and then

01:06:46 ◼   ► mark german reports that

01:06:47 ◼   ► internally they're now using

01:06:48 ◼   ► claude instead i'm like

01:06:49 ◼   ► hmm hmm what does that what

01:06:51 ◼   ► does that mean what does that

01:06:53 ◼   ► mean

01:06:54 ◼   ► uh there has been in last week

01:06:57 ◼   ► what i consider to be a weird

01:07:00 ◼   ► flurry of rumors detailing

01:07:01 ◼   ► apple's 2027 product lineup from

01:07:04 ◼   ► multiple sources everyone's

01:07:06 ◼   ► talking about not this year's

01:07:08 ◼   ► iphones not next year next

01:07:11 ◼   ► year's the year after that

01:07:13 ◼   ► 2027 so the information

01:07:15 ◼   ► reported that the 2027 iphone

01:07:18 ◼   ► will be all display with the

01:07:19 ◼   ► front camera and face id being

01:07:21 ◼   ► moved to under the screen this

01:07:23 ◼   ► iphone will be the 20th

01:07:25 ◼   ► anniversary iphone um so maybe

01:07:28 ◼   ► they're going big on it you

01:07:29 ◼   ► know i had to thought maybe this

01:07:31 ◼   ► week or maybe last week they

01:07:32 ◼   ► locked the design for the 27

01:07:34 ◼   ► iphone could be that's why i'm

01:07:36 ◼   ► double x double x yeah double

01:07:38 ◼   ► x oh god please no uh maybe is

01:07:41 ◼   ► there a different way to make

01:07:43 ◼   ► the number like to to represent

01:07:44 ◼   ► the number 20 maybe they could

01:07:46 ◼   ► go for like arabic numbers or

01:07:47 ◼   ► something you know because they

01:07:48 ◼   ► did like our numbers are the

01:07:50 ◼   ► arabic numbers okay well our

01:07:51 ◼   ► numbers are arabic numbers

01:07:52 ◼   ► done what's the roman numerals

01:07:54 ◼   ► double x double x is fine no

01:07:55 ◼   ► triple x you don't want to do

01:07:56 ◼   ► they've done arabic they've done

01:07:57 ◼   ► roman numerals there's another set

01:08:00 ◼   ► that's in the apple watch which

01:08:01 ◼   ► now i now feel silly oh yeah well

01:08:03 ◼   ► i apologize they're not going to

01:08:04 ◼   ► do that because it's not it would

01:08:06 ◼   ► still be 20 that's not going to

01:08:07 ◼   ► happen we only do arabic numerals

01:08:10 ◼   ► and roman numerals here okay well

01:08:12 ◼   ► anyway uh okay the information say

01:08:16 ◼   ► that to help apple get to this 20

01:08:18 ◼   ► 27 iphone the 2026 iphone 18 pro

01:08:22 ◼   ► models next year will feature the well

01:08:25 ◼   ► you know what actually the 2027 iphone

01:08:28 ◼   ► won't be the iphone 20

01:08:29 ◼   ► or will it

01:08:32 ◼   ► remember what they did with the

01:08:35 ◼   ► iphone 10

01:08:36 ◼   ► they're gonna do it again yeah i guess

01:08:40 ◼   ► they could because the iphone 10

01:08:41 ◼   ► followed the iphone 8

01:08:43 ◼   ► yeah it did didn't it there was no

01:08:45 ◼   ► nine

01:08:45 ◼   ► they're gonna do it i'll call in it

01:08:47 ◼   ► here they're gonna do it

01:08:48 ◼   ► they're gonna do it

01:08:50 ◼   ► well that was a quick turn by mike

01:08:52 ◼   ► there

01:08:52 ◼   ► no you are and i agree with you i this

01:08:55 ◼   ► wasn't my thing you say that and i

01:08:56 ◼   ► agree with you um that the 2026

01:09:00 ◼   ► 2026 iphone 18 pro will feature

01:09:02 ◼   ► under display face id of a cut out for

01:09:04 ◼   ► the selfie camera and then the next

01:09:06 ◼   ► year they get rid of that camera so

01:09:09 ◼   ► then mark german echoed this uh in a

01:09:12 ◼   ► report on bloomberg and said that it

01:09:14 ◼   ► would be quote a mostly glass curved

01:09:17 ◼   ► phone i don't know what curved means

01:09:20 ◼   ► i don't know man what is curved what

01:09:22 ◼   ► was it like a banana like what is what

01:09:25 ◼   ► is a curved iphone now like there's

01:09:28 ◼   ► been you know some android phones like

01:09:30 ◼   ► samsung phones have had kind of like

01:09:33 ◼   ► a glass and it goes around the edges

01:09:35 ◼   ► you know like like so you can see on

01:09:37 ◼   ► the edge of the phone but like right is

01:09:40 ◼   ► that what they're gonna do is that

01:09:41 ◼   ► what a curved phone is or is it

01:09:44 ◼   ► more comfortable so it's got kind of

01:09:45 ◼   ► like a a curve so it's like thicker at

01:09:48 ◼   ► the edges and is it shaped like a

01:09:49 ◼   ► peanut like like it ramps down i don't

01:09:51 ◼   ► know like it's got a peanut or a

01:09:53 ◼   ► banana that's like a little waist in

01:09:55 ◼   ► the middle like what's going on what

01:09:57 ◼   ► are they doing over there we'll find

01:09:58 ◼   ► out only two years to wait soon uh so

01:10:02 ◼   ► as well as this uh we should see

01:10:05 ◼   ► foldable a second generation of a

01:10:07 ◼   ► foldable phone most likely but maybe

01:10:09 ◼   ► the first one it's due for debut in

01:10:10 ◼   ► 2026 but it should be about 27 uh

01:10:13 ◼   ► mark german is also expecting apple's

01:10:15 ◼   ► first smart glasses similar to the

01:10:17 ◼   ► meta ray-bans it will be a focus on

01:10:19 ◼   ► audio camera and apple intelligence for

01:10:21 ◼   ► this product airpods to have a camera

01:10:23 ◼   ► llm powered siri and quote a tabletop

01:10:27 ◼   ► machine with a robotic arm that would

01:10:30 ◼   ► feature an ai system of its own

01:10:32 ◼   ► personality obviously robotic arm all of

01:10:36 ◼   ► this in the great future of 2027

01:10:38 ◼   ► um okay great mark german is also

01:10:43 ◼   ► reporting that apple is continuing to

01:10:45 ◼   ► push their work on custom chips for

01:10:47 ◼   ► their devices in a few new areas so one

01:10:50 ◼   ► chip is for the aforementioned smart

01:10:52 ◼   ► glasses because they're going to need

01:10:53 ◼   ► something that is quite different for

01:10:55 ◼   ► this uh they apparently they're taking

01:10:56 ◼   ► the base the apple watch system on a

01:10:59 ◼   ► chip is where they would take their

01:11:00 ◼   ► base from which makes sense but they

01:11:02 ◼   ► want to make a product that is even

01:11:04 ◼   ► more performance efficient and has a

01:11:07 ◼   ► greater battery life or like what

01:11:09 ◼   ► would take less battery power because

01:11:12 ◼   ► that's going to be quite complicated to

01:11:15 ◼   ► get a device to operate all day like

01:11:18 ◼   ► that um especially a device that for

01:11:20 ◼   ► many people who will be wearing it's

01:11:22 ◼   ► not like the apple watch uh if you take

01:11:24 ◼   ► off your glasses to charge maybe you

01:11:26 ◼   ► can't see anymore um which is more

01:11:29 ◼   ► complicated than just hey i'm just

01:11:31 ◼   ► gonna throw my apple watch on the

01:11:33 ◼   ► charger

01:11:34 ◼   ► it allows them potentially to also

01:11:36 ◼   ► come into a market late after meta's

01:11:37 ◼   ► been there for a while with some

01:11:39 ◼   ► features that make people say it was

01:11:43 ◼   ► worth the wait even if it isn't worth

01:11:44 ◼   ► the wait you know building custom

01:11:47 ◼   ► silicon that allows them to maybe

01:11:48 ◼   ► surpass something that meta's doing

01:11:49 ◼   ► uh in some way it's it's like an

01:11:52 ◼   ► excuse to say well we were late but

01:11:54 ◼   ► look at how awesome we are now yeah i

01:11:57 ◼   ► think they should just ship something

01:11:58 ◼   ► now but yeah they don't listen to me

01:11:59 ◼   ► they absolutely should um it would

01:12:02 ◼   ► also be controlling the quote multiple

01:12:03 ◼   ► cameras planned for the glasses um i

01:12:06 ◼   ► guess maybe one on each side i don't

01:12:08 ◼   ► know why i don't know and then this

01:12:10 ◼   ► product is on target for mass

01:12:11 ◼   ► production this chips i should say is on

01:12:14 ◼   ► target for mass production either the

01:12:15 ◼   ► end of this year sorry 2026 or early

01:12:18 ◼   ► 2027 um depending on the timing for

01:12:22 ◼   ► this product i could imagine them

01:12:23 ◼   ► announcing this uh in the fall of 26

01:12:26 ◼   ► even if they're planning to ship in 27

01:12:28 ◼   ► risky you know but i think of the

01:12:31 ◼   ► apple watch right did this for the

01:12:32 ◼   ► apple watch now it's in september it

01:12:34 ◼   ► came out in march yeah vision pro when

01:12:37 ◼   ► you've got a brand new product you can

01:12:38 ◼   ► pre-announce it so and i just feel like

01:12:40 ◼   ► this is a product that would benefit

01:12:42 ◼   ► from being uh the iphone presentation

01:12:45 ◼   ► because it's where most absolutely

01:12:46 ◼   ► absolutely absolutely is an iphone

01:12:49 ◼   ► accessory is the way this product is

01:12:50 ◼   ► going to run yep 100 percent uh while

01:12:53 ◼   ► developing this product so the one

01:12:54 ◼   ► which is essentially the meta ray-ban

01:12:56 ◼   ► competitor apple still continues to push

01:12:59 ◼   ► hard being led by tim cook pushing

01:13:01 ◼   ► aggressively uh to try and develop ar

01:13:04 ◼   ► displays for either this product or a

01:13:06 ◼   ► future product uh they want to beat

01:13:08 ◼   ► meta to market yeah and i think this is

01:13:11 ◼   ► this is the start of why i like the

01:13:14 ◼   ► vision pro as a concept is they have

01:13:17 ◼   ► learned a lot with a vision pro and it

01:13:18 ◼   ► sounds like they're going to keep

01:13:19 ◼   ► making vision pro but they're also like

01:13:22 ◼   ► the lessons you once you put a screen on

01:13:25 ◼   ► these glasses whenever that is i think

01:13:28 ◼   ► the lessons you learned with the vision

01:13:29 ◼   ► pro start to come into uh play where you

01:13:33 ◼   ► know because the goal is to learn with

01:13:35 ◼   ► the vision pro from that direction and

01:13:37 ◼   ► then be able to apply it in a much light

01:13:39 ◼   ► more lightweight kind of way

01:13:41 ◼   ► um if you've got sensors if you're doing

01:13:43 ◼   ► gestures whatever it is that you're

01:13:44 ◼   ► doing how you display information um

01:13:48 ◼   ► hopefully you know that that's the

01:13:50 ◼   ► purpose of doing all of this r&d and

01:13:52 ◼   ► putting these products out there is that

01:13:53 ◼   ► there there is a place they want to go

01:13:55 ◼   ► with this stuff that uh you can't get

01:13:58 ◼   ► to right now with modern technology but

01:13:59 ◼   ► they're working they're working to to

01:14:01 ◼   ► get there and who else i mean who else

01:14:04 ◼   ► is doing it met is doing it that's about

01:14:06 ◼   ► it right so if you want that future to

01:14:09 ◼   ► exist you you can it's there for the

01:14:11 ◼   ► taking if you spend the money

01:14:13 ◼   ► and apple's also developing new chips

01:14:16 ◼   ► for the apple watch and airpods for

01:14:18 ◼   ► controlling cameras in both of these

01:14:21 ◼   ► devices by 2027 uh and then for the mac

01:14:26 ◼   ► got the m5 coming in 2026 uh to go in the

01:14:31 ◼   ► ipad pro uh the m6 and m7 are in

01:14:35 ◼   ► development along with a quote more

01:14:38 ◼   ► advanced mac chip in development

01:14:41 ◼   ► okay what that means uh apple's also

01:14:44 ◼   ► working on a dedicated ai server chip

01:14:46 ◼   ► rather than uh mac the mac chips they're

01:14:49 ◼   ► currently using

01:14:49 ◼   ► sure makes sense because they're using

01:14:53 ◼   ► those customized ones right um or

01:14:55 ◼   ► yeah well they're building max they're

01:14:58 ◼   ► building devices that are running the

01:15:00 ◼   ► private cloud compute that are using

01:15:01 ◼   ► existing mac chips and they will build a

01:15:04 ◼   ► a custom uh server chip instead but but

01:15:08 ◼   ► right now they're just using mac chips

01:15:09 ◼   ► because we have lots of things that

01:15:10 ◼   ► they don't need on those servers

01:15:11 ◼   ► because uh they got them they made

01:15:14 ◼   ► them um yeah also i mean m5 in 2026 i

01:15:18 ◼   ► imagine that we're going to get m5

01:15:19 ◼   ► macbook pros in the fall not in 2026 but

01:15:22 ◼   ► we'll see yeah i'm currently trying to

01:15:24 ◼   ► log into bloomberg uh which is always a

01:15:26 ◼   ► thing because you can just never log in

01:15:28 ◼   ► bloomberg will just never let you stay

01:15:30 ◼   ► logged in because i'm wondering when as

01:15:32 ◼   ► soon as i read that i was like i'm not

01:15:34 ◼   ► sure that i wrote that down correctly

01:15:35 ◼   ► i i would say jason i really got

01:15:37 ◼   ► confused today about what year we're in

01:15:39 ◼   ► yeah he says as early as the end of this

01:15:42 ◼   ► year for the m5 to the macbook pro and

01:15:44 ◼   ► ipad so it's the rare 2025 report i meant

01:15:47 ◼   ► to say by 2026 because that's that weird

01:15:49 ◼   ► like how you know as early as early as

01:15:52 ◼   ► m5 in 2025 before 2026 uh sure i failed to

01:15:58 ◼   ► log into bloomberg time and the war

01:16:02 ◼   ► street journal reported today make you do

01:16:04 ◼   ► the captures did they make i just didn't i

01:16:06 ◼   ► just gave up because you bloomberg is like

01:16:08 ◼   ► oh show me bicycles click on motorcycles

01:16:10 ◼   ► show me traffic lights i'm like what are you

01:16:12 ◼   ► doing i have a password and a username i'm

01:16:17 ◼   ► gonna set look what why do these websites

01:16:18 ◼   ► make me log in as often as i have to log

01:16:20 ◼   ► in like why why it's amazing like i i have

01:16:23 ◼   ► no problem paying you i want to pay you i

01:16:25 ◼   ► want to support your work because i uh is

01:16:28 ◼   ► it a great expense for you because i use

01:16:30 ◼   ► your work to inform my work but just

01:16:33 ◼   ► remember my login please please i know

01:16:37 ◼   ► bloomberg is the worst i i also sometimes

01:16:38 ◼   ► get in the space where bloomberg shows that

01:16:40 ◼   ► i'm logged in but won't show me the content

01:16:42 ◼   ► it's like i'm logged out but i am but

01:16:44 ◼   ► it's got hi jason at the top i'm like

01:16:45 ◼   ► what are you doing you're not allowed to

01:16:47 ◼   ► see this no you can't see this no i just

01:16:49 ◼   ► come on the wall street journal is

01:16:52 ◼   ► reporting today that apple is considering

01:16:53 ◼   ► raising prices of the iphone this year

01:16:55 ◼   ► because of tariffs but does not want to

01:16:58 ◼   ► blame the tariffs uh here's the thing uh

01:17:02 ◼   ► the super high tariffs are on hold right

01:17:04 ◼   ► the 125 percent tariff got put on hold

01:17:07 ◼   ► today uh but there are still tariffs i

01:17:09 ◼   ► think a 30 percent tariff in china yeah

01:17:14 ◼   ► it was 20 percent plus the 10 though

01:17:15 ◼   ► isn't it like because the 10 is for

01:17:16 ◼   ► yeah i don't know here's the thing the

01:17:18 ◼   ► tariff thing is confusing but even this

01:17:24 ◼   ► thing that was announced today is a 90 day

01:17:26 ◼   ► thing so the situation is no one knows

01:17:29 ◼   ► what's going on with tariffs so you have

01:17:30 ◼   ► to think about what you're going to do in

01:17:32 ◼   ► a world where they might come back and or

01:17:34 ◼   ► in a world that you're paying more than

01:17:36 ◼   ► you were before so apple is considering

01:17:39 ◼   ► what they might do in that but of course

01:17:43 ◼   ► you're not allowed to say it's because

01:17:45 ◼   ► of the tariffs because then the president

01:17:47 ◼   ► gets real mad at you so you have to

01:17:49 ◼   ► increase it for like who knows why just

01:17:52 ◼   ► stop like we're just increasing it uh the

01:17:54 ◼   ► wall street journal is reporting that the

01:17:56 ◼   ► majority of iphone 18 pro and 18 pro max

01:17:58 ◼   ► models will still be made in china with the

01:18:01 ◼   ► majority of all other models moving to

01:18:03 ◼   ► india the indian supply chain is not

01:18:05 ◼   ► capable of producing more complex models this

01:18:08 ◼   ► is exactly what me and you were considering

01:18:10 ◼   ► would be the case last week when we spoke

01:18:12 ◼   ► about it exactly because what tim cook was

01:18:14 ◼   ► actually saying when he said like oh in you

01:18:17 ◼   ► know obviously in the next quarter these

01:18:18 ◼   ► models are going to be made uh in india is

01:18:21 ◼   ► what these are older phones then so they're

01:18:24 ◼   ► more used to the production but for the

01:18:26 ◼   ► state of the art they still need to be made

01:18:28 ◼   ► in china right and so the more expensive

01:18:31 ◼   ► phones will probably get more expensive with

01:18:33 ◼   ► the next round and they're gonna say hey the

01:18:36 ◼   ► new iphone pro is amazing and it starts at

01:18:39 ◼   ► 1299 instead of 999 that they're gonna try and

01:18:44 ◼   ► say its features which i just think feels

01:18:46 ◼   ► tricky because they haven't done this in

01:18:48 ◼   ► previous years but i guess apple's just gonna

01:18:50 ◼   ► hope that everybody knows this is just what

01:18:52 ◼   ► the world is and they can just get away with

01:18:54 ◼   ► i think the question also is what is that price

01:18:58 ◼   ► outside the u.s because it could be lower so will

01:19:04 ◼   ► it be will it be 1299 in the u.s but not in

01:19:08 ◼   ► great britain well or what you can do if you're

01:19:13 ◼   ► smart enough which i hate that this is but this is

01:19:16 ◼   ► happening more you don't put it up that much in

01:19:19 ◼   ► america you put it up everywhere by a smaller

01:19:22 ◼   ► amount and then overall you make the money

01:19:26 ◼   ► yeah and your your your your margins are less

01:19:30 ◼   ► and if you really want to uh not upset the

01:19:35 ◼   ► american government then you put the price up

01:19:38 ◼   ► everywhere right you just like prices up

01:19:39 ◼   ► everywhere tariffs schmaris who knows so now

01:19:42 ◼   ► to be fair the iphone 16 pro right now is from

01:19:48 ◼   ► 999 pounds

01:19:50 ◼   ► which is 1299 us dollars yep so you're right

01:20:01 ◼   ► they could totally just leave it where it is

01:20:04 ◼   ► in the uk because the uk is already very

01:20:10 ◼   ► expensive oh but no but i don't think they

01:20:11 ◼   ► would do that i think they will put it up

01:20:13 ◼   ► here too and they would just take the

01:20:15 ◼   ► overall increase across the world to kind

01:20:19 ◼   ► of bump them up they could they could but

01:20:21 ◼   ► they don't necessarily have to they could

01:20:23 ◼   ► they could go 999 in the u.s and the uk or

01:20:27 ◼   ► they could say you're right or they could

01:20:28 ◼   ► say it's 1099 in the u.s um and 1099 in

01:20:34 ◼   ► the uk something like that too and then it's

01:20:37 ◼   ► the same everywhere yeah i don't know i don't

01:20:40 ◼   ► know this is the this is the real question

01:20:42 ◼   ► um that's the real question is is how will

01:20:46 ◼   ► they do this but you're right they what they

01:20:48 ◼   ► won't what they don't want to do is be

01:20:50 ◼   ► perceived as taking a shot at the

01:20:54 ◼   ► administration which is that's what they

01:20:56 ◼   ► don't want to do unbelievably weird it is

01:21:00 ◼   ► but what else should i expect but like

01:21:02 ◼   ► yeah i don't need to get into it it's not

01:21:06 ◼   ► important but it's just like this is where

01:21:08 ◼   ► we are right now you do a thing and then but

01:21:11 ◼   ► you can't talk about why you're doing the

01:21:13 ◼   ► thing because even though it's but everybody

01:21:15 ◼   ► knows but everybody knows yeah what are we

01:21:17 ◼   ► doing yeah what are we doing nothing good

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01:24:04 ◼   ► and relay

01:24:05 ◼   ► let's finish out with some ask upgrade questions

01:24:08 ◼   ► didn't get to do any last week gabriel writes in and says i'm thinking

01:24:13 ◼   ► about replacing my old kindle with a kobo besides reading books i'd

01:24:17 ◼   ► also like to keep up with my rss feeds is this possible jason with kobo

01:24:22 ◼   ► no no i my recommendation i it is it's very frustrating i wish that they would do

01:24:33 ◼   ► something like that um the only thing that's close to this on the kobo is that

01:24:39 ◼   ► they've got a thing that's integration uh with um uh what is it it's one of the

01:24:46 ◼   ► relater services that's not instapaper it's the other one it's you know anyway

01:24:53 ◼   ► whatever it's got integration with one of the relater services so you can add it's

01:24:58 ◼   ► pocket right it's pocket

01:24:59 ◼   ► so it you can go to a web page and click a link and it'll

01:25:07 ◼   ► add it to pocket and then you can go on the kobo to pocket and your articles are

01:25:12 ◼   ► there but that's not how i use rss and i i wish they would do this i there was that

01:25:19 ◼   ► great uh verge cast interview with the ceo who said that he he understood that need

01:25:24 ◼   ► and like wouldn't it be nice if there was a way to feed content from the outside into

01:25:31 ◼   ► kobo more directly he agreed but i just i'm not sure it's a priority for them so what i will

01:25:38 ◼   ► say is if you are an e-ink enthusiast who would like something more powerful than a kindle or a

01:25:45 ◼   ► kobo you could buy an android powered e-ink device like the ones from books and it's not it's more work

01:25:54 ◼   ► but there are android rss readers that that will integrate with um the e-ink in a way where it's

01:26:05 ◼   ► decent to read it in e-ink because the big thing what you want is you don't want to scroll because

01:26:09 ◼   ► e-ink frame rates are bad so you want it to be able to like honor your page turn button and have

01:26:14 ◼   ► that turn the page it's not great and i'll tell you i've got a lot of books readers here and i don't do

01:26:19 ◼   ► this i read my rss on my ipad every morning because of this i wish it was better i really do

01:26:25 ◼   ► um i will keep trying but like you rss on an e-ink reader it's just it's an extra step right now and

01:26:32 ◼   ► i wish i wish it weren't but that's unfortunately where we are right now uh yoni writes in and says

01:26:39 ◼   ► mike as a fellow new dad i'm struggling to manage all the photos i could take of my son how are you

01:26:45 ◼   ► handling the photos that you take sharing them with your wife and friends and family are you using a

01:26:50 ◼   ► shared library or shared icloud album what is the hurley way i made a shortcut last night

01:26:55 ◼   ► actually to to count how many photos i've taken this year um last year i took like 3 800 photos

01:27:04 ◼   ► this year i've taken 1 800 photos so i'm taking lots of photos of my baby uh i take photos of my baby

01:27:11 ◼   ► all day all the time what i don't want to do is manage a uh icloud library or we're family i'm not

01:27:19 ◼   ► interested in that so adina and i we have a shared photo library for the pic like we just have a shared

01:27:24 ◼   ► photo library so the pictures that we're both taking we're both getting right and so we both leave sharing

01:27:29 ◼   ► on as default for any pictures that we take and we get them that way that's great for the two of us

01:27:34 ◼   ► um there was like family drama a while ago because of a shared photo library you know like someone's

01:27:44 ◼   ► it was just ridiculous so that oh no moment was like i don't want to be in this uh so we're not doing

01:27:49 ◼   ► this what i did do is i bought my mom an aura frame uh we and we bought one for adina's mom too we bought

01:27:57 ◼   ► a two-pack which is a genius idea but i'm one for two family members and that's how i am that's how i

01:28:05 ◼   ► am mostly giving the photos to the person other than my wife in my life who wants the pictures the

01:28:09 ◼   ► most which is the grandmas other members of the family would just send select images whatever i

01:28:16 ◼   ► actually think that's fine i think that like my brothers don't need a constant stream or really want

01:28:21 ◼   ► a constant stream of photos in the way that my mom what does uh and the aura frames are super nice i'd

01:28:27 ◼   ► seen them on a bunch of podcasts uh as ads and i looked it up and i was looked up wire cutter and

01:28:33 ◼   ► they're also you know as well as being uh endorsed by many podcasters who've received them it's also

01:28:38 ◼   ► like the wire cutter pic is now like aura frames i was very surprised at just how much this digital

01:28:45 ◼   ► photo frame looks like a photo frame like it just looks like a photo frame they're super thin

01:28:51 ◼   ► uh they're really nice looking and the the screens are very nice they're like matte screens like they look

01:28:56 ◼   ► really good and jason their app is unbelievably good you uh you can go into the app and upload

01:29:03 ◼   ► whatever you want it supports live photos which i just thought was great as like a feature but my

01:29:10 ◼   ► favorite thing is you can go into the photos app select a bunch of images they have a share extension

01:29:15 ◼   ► to just send them to the frame and from the share extension you can choose do i want it to go to

01:29:21 ◼   ► both frames attached to the account which is both of our mom's frames or just the one super good like

01:29:28 ◼   ► i i wish they would sponsor because i loved it like i i was blown away at how good an experience the

01:29:36 ◼   ► aura frame was this is the main way i would recommend dealing with this like i my mom appreciates that way

01:29:44 ◼   ► more and then i also send her pictures too right so like i will send her pictures that i like but then

01:29:50 ◼   ► i'll also upload the aura to the aura frame and like she can just she just sees them all the time and

01:29:56 ◼   ► she absolutely loves it and same with like adina's mom she they they both love these things so i really

01:30:02 ◼   ► recommend these uh for gifts for family members so because it has been a big hit um with uh with our

01:30:10 ◼   ► grandparents uh patrick writes in and says that the news that the uh i feel like pouring it out for

01:30:19 ◼   ► the home pod hardware thing was mostly finished but was waiting on software is it fair to say that

01:30:25 ◼   ► apple's software division is letting down the hardware division the same story uh was rumored to have

01:30:30 ◼   ► happened for the vision pro and overall it seemed like apple hardware is hitting home runs where apple

01:30:35 ◼   ► software can't seem to find the ball which is quite a mean metaphor i think at the end but

01:30:40 ◼   ► yeah it does feel like that's the case though right that apple is executing on its hardware

01:30:45 ◼   ► better than it is on its software maybe the company is just set up in such a way that that makes it

01:30:53 ◼   ► easier for them to do i don't know but there does seem to be something going on if i were an apple

01:30:59 ◼   ► executive i would definitely be especially if i was involved in the hardware side i would definitely have

01:31:05 ◼   ► noticed that the hardware people are just going by leaps and bounds going forward and executing

01:31:13 ◼   ► and software is struggling to catch up with them and i'm starting to wonder like what's that dynamic

01:31:19 ◼   ► like are the hardware people really mad at the software people now like because they should be like

01:31:24 ◼   ► they built apparently they built a whole product because they were they were told that it was going to hinge on

01:31:30 ◼   ► all of this kind of personal uh siri control and they never shipped and the product is ready

01:31:37 ◼   ► that is the most stark example but i feel like that we've seen this before that they are just yes this

01:31:44 ◼   ► is the answer is this is this sums up this moment in apple which is their hardware execution has never

01:31:50 ◼   ► been better and their software execution i'm not going to say it's never been worse that's not true

01:31:55 ◼   ► but it is substantially behind the hardware execution yeah i mean look at the ipad that that's the story

01:32:02 ◼   ► of the ipad too right it's been the story of the ipad for ages now although some of that is policy right it's not

01:32:06 ◼   ► all it's not like they can't do it it's that they won't do it but the net result is that the software

01:32:11 ◼   ► has been has been outpaced by hardware for a while now and uh that's where we are yep

01:32:17 ◼   ► john wrightson says the tv os user profiles do anything at all with third-party apps like disney

01:32:23 ◼   ► or amazon it would be great if my kids or partners tv shows did not appear in my personal up next

01:32:29 ◼   ► so to expand on this a little bit tv os you probably don't know tv os has profiles you can

01:32:36 ◼   ► choose between different users and it will show different apps it's like a different it's actually

01:32:41 ◼   ► one of the only products apple makes other than the mac that has a built-in system for profiles that

01:32:48 ◼   ► multiple users can use them there is an api called tv user manager that does this so disney could

01:32:58 ◼   ► integrate their profile system you could link your disney profile with your apple profile so if you

01:33:04 ◼   ► switch between profiles it would change the up next queue the story of tv os i mean lots of apple's

01:33:10 ◼   ► platforms but tv os in a nutshell is there are features available but nobody cares to use them

01:33:16 ◼   ► like i think tv os actually suffers from this way more than even the vision pro or any other platform

01:33:23 ◼   ► of like there's stuff that can be done but nobody wants to do them it's not in anybody's interest to

01:33:30 ◼   ► do them like netflix in the up next queue for example like it's just it does not serve most of these

01:33:36 ◼   ► companies to really take advantage of all the things that the system offers this is one of them and it

01:33:41 ◼   ► would be great right that you would come and you would turn on your profile and all of your shows

01:33:46 ◼   ► are in your up next queue you go to your kids and then all of their shows are in your up next queue and

01:33:50 ◼   ► things don't cross pollinate but that it doesn't i have not seen any examples of people actually

01:33:57 ◼   ► companies actually using this api but it does exist if you would like to send in a question of your own

01:34:03 ◼   ► for us to answer on the show as best we can go to upgradefeedback.com you can also send us in your

01:34:09 ◼   ► follow-up and questions there too i would like to thank our members who support us with upgrade plus

01:34:14 ◼   ► if you would like longer ad free versions of the show each and every week go to getupgradeplus.com

01:34:19 ◼   ► you can find us on youtube by searching for upgrade podcast we're there in video glory if you

01:34:23 ◼   ► would like that i'd like to thank ecamm factor and fitbod for their support of this week's episode

01:34:29 ◼   ► but as always most of all thank you for listening we'll be back next time until then say goodbye jason

01:34:34 ◼   ► snow goodbye mike hurley