ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I was wearing my beloved ATP Pixels shirt.

00:00:02 ◼   ► So I'm a, are we live?

00:00:04 ◼   ► I didn't hear you.

00:00:04 ◼   ► Yes.

00:00:04 ◼   ► I'm wearing a white undershirt because that's just, I'm an old man.

00:00:09 ◼   ► That's what I do.

00:00:09 ◼   ► And then I was wearing my ATP Pixels shirt.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Don't slack on white undershirts or yourself.

00:00:13 ◼   ► White undershirts are usually the correct undershirt color.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Like occasionally you got to go with a gray, but usually white is like a great overall

00:00:22 ◼   ► all arounder.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Why don't you get gray undershirts?

00:00:23 ◼   ► You're just, you're just complicating your laundry.

00:00:26 ◼   ► You get gray undershirts if in the context that you're wearing it, it might slightly

00:00:32 ◼   ► become visible at the collar and that would look weird against what you're wearing.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Oh, all my undershirts are visible to the collar.

00:00:38 ◼   ► I don't care anymore.

00:00:38 ◼   ► You don't get like the nice deep V-necks?

00:00:40 ◼   ► Like, come on.

00:00:41 ◼   ► No, I don't like V-neck first of all.

00:00:42 ◼   ► And second of all, it's not the V-neck that's the problem.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Even, even the V-necks have a non V around the back of your neck and that's where it's

00:00:47 ◼   ► visible.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Are you wearing your shirts backwards?

00:00:49 ◼   ► Wearing them the right way.

00:00:52 ◼   ► I know I should be in V-necks, but I don't care for them.

00:00:55 ◼   ► And I'm sure I could get over it, but I don't currently care for them.

00:00:58 ◼   ► And I'm wearing, what is this, crew neck or whatever it's called?

00:00:59 ◼   ► I forget what the other option is.

00:01:00 ◼   ► Yeah, just the circle, circle hole.

00:01:02 ◼   ► Yeah, circle hole.

00:01:02 ◼   ► And, and that's what I prefer.

00:01:04 ◼   ► And yeah, I know that's not very trendy, but that's, that's okay.

00:01:07 ◼   ► No, it's fine.

00:01:08 ◼   ► I will tell you though, like if you ever want to switch to V-necks, like I switched to

00:01:11 ◼   ► V-necks for my basic t-shirts and my undershirts a few years ago.

00:01:14 ◼   ► It was like, I lost a bunch of weight with keto and I had been working out and I felt

00:01:18 ◼   ► really good.

00:01:19 ◼   ► I'm like, I'm going to look sexy with like my V-neck shirt.

00:01:21 ◼   ► And I wore, I wore like, you know, one and, and Tip was like, Ooh, you look good.

00:01:25 ◼   ► I'm like, okay, now, now I'm encouraged.

00:01:27 ◼   ► So I, I, you know, and I, I was initially very irritated by like the feeling of where the

00:01:31 ◼   ► V meets the bottom of the V, but like the way that touches my chest.

00:01:35 ◼   ► And I got over it in like a day, like it was, it was a brief irritation after that.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Now I am a shirt universalist after that one brief period of friction and noticing the V

00:01:47 ◼   ► bottom.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Now I can wear any shaped collar and I actually prefer the V most of the time.

00:01:51 ◼   ► And, you know, for regular t-shirts, I think maybe it's, you know, maybe it's a wash either

00:01:54 ◼   ► way, but for undershirts, it's a clear winner because you are so much less likely to see the

00:01:59 ◼   ► undershirt under whatever you're wearing, unless you are drawn and wear giant neck for some

00:02:02 ◼   ► reason.

00:02:02 ◼   ► I feel like it's just a, yeah, for me, it would just be a chest hair display mechanism.

00:02:06 ◼   ► I'm going to see a little bit, a little extra chest hair, just to have the V go down long

00:02:11 ◼   ► enough for it to poke out and say, hello.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess I'm not particularly her suit.

00:02:16 ◼   ► So maybe it's, maybe it's less, uh, less of an issue for me.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Different bodies, different choices.

00:02:21 ◼   ► I was in Memphis last week.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Uh, we were, uh, myself and a few other people, uh, and friends were in Memphis, uh, to go

00:02:30 ◼   ► to St. Jude and that's why we recorded early last week.

00:02:33 ◼   ► Well, anyways, I made a terrible, terrible mistake and I let Stephen Hackett show me the

00:02:40 ◼   ► ubiquity management interface for his whole ubiquity setup.

00:02:44 ◼   ► I must have this in my life.

00:02:47 ◼   ► I don't need it.

00:02:48 ◼   ► I must have this in my life.

00:02:50 ◼   ► And this is going to cause so many problems for me.

00:02:53 ◼   ► I, I know it will.

00:02:54 ◼   ► I know it will, but I needs it.

00:02:56 ◼   ► And so I made a terrible mistake letting Stephen show this to me.

00:02:59 ◼   ► And, uh, you, Marco, this is a gift for future Marco, as I inevitably spend way too much money

00:03:05 ◼   ► on ubiquity stuff that I don't need.

00:03:06 ◼   ► And then somehow find a way to have some sort of problem with it.

00:03:10 ◼   ► And you get to laugh and watch as I fight through all these problems.

00:03:13 ◼   ► So, no, honestly, so I'm going to talk a little bit more about ubiquity later, but honestly,

00:03:17 ◼   ► I don't expect you to have any problems whatsoever.

00:03:20 ◼   ► You'll just have envy every time they release some awesome new switch with fun lighting.

00:03:24 ◼   ► You're like, Ooh, I want that switch.

00:03:26 ◼   ► Like it's, but like, it's just there.

00:03:28 ◼   ► Like once you go ubiquity, you don't tend to go back.

00:03:31 ◼   ► I'll get to, again, I'll get, I'll get into more ubiquity stuff later, but it's just good.

00:03:36 ◼   ► Oh, it's so like watching Stephen, like blow through his network topology.

00:03:40 ◼   ► So you can see that this switch is connected to this switch is connected to this thing.

00:03:44 ◼   ► And that's where the iPad is.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Now, I guess that wouldn't be a switch, but you know what I'm saying?

00:03:47 ◼   ► Like, you know, you can walk down the actual topography of the, of the network.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:03:52 ◼   ► It was so cool.

00:03:52 ◼   ► We can see what the, where the traffic is flowing.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:03:55 ◼   ► This is as someone who has display panels all over his house.

00:03:59 ◼   ► This is my God.

00:04:01 ◼   ► I love it.

00:04:01 ◼   ► You can put the whole thing in your menu bar.

00:04:03 ◼   ► I know.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:04:05 ◼   ► It would be so great.

00:04:05 ◼   ► You're going to rip off your shirt and install a V-neck.

00:04:07 ◼   ► I genuinely don't want to talk about it anymore right now.

00:04:11 ◼   ► And I know we're going to talk about ubiquity broadly later, but over the next few months,

00:04:14 ◼   ► I suspect that I will start poking and prodding Marco and getting some suggestions on what I

00:04:19 ◼   ► should buy.

00:04:19 ◼   ► Cause Stephen has opinions, which I trust and I agree with, but I'd be curious to hear your

00:04:23 ◼   ► two cents as well.

00:04:23 ◼   ► So not today.

00:04:24 ◼   ► This is not for today.

00:04:25 ◼   ► This is another day down the road.

00:04:26 ◼   ► I'd like to talk to you about it.

00:04:28 ◼   ► So those are my problems.

00:04:29 ◼   ► I'm going to be real hangry, potentially tired.

00:04:31 ◼   ► And I've, I've seen the promised land that is ubiquity.

00:04:34 ◼   ► And now I can't go back.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Um, but you know, what isn't a problem is I am going to remember to place an order in

00:04:41 ◼   ► the ATP store, which is back, but not for long.

00:04:44 ◼   ► It is going to end.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Is it the evening of Monday, April 28, John?

00:04:47 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:04:48 ◼   ► Uh, I think I'm just saying it ends on the 28th and I leave it ambiguous.

00:04:52 ◼   ► So people are feel nervous and they have to, uh, not try to do the last minute.

00:04:56 ◼   ► So just pretend it ends at midnight on the 27th.

00:04:59 ◼   ► I don't actually know.

00:05:00 ◼   ► I can look it up in the source code to see the actual date and time, but, but don't like,

00:05:04 ◼   ► honestly, don't wait until that amount of time is remaining.

00:05:07 ◼   ► If you've waited and there's less than 24 hours left with time zones and everything and

00:05:11 ◼   ► what day is it where I am versus what day is it where, where the ATP store is like, that's

00:05:15 ◼   ► why I removed that last day.

00:05:16 ◼   ► It just removes all ambiguity about time zones and worrying about the date line and stuff.

00:05:20 ◼   ► and just, yeah, sale ends on the 28th order before then before the 28th.

00:05:25 ◼   ► If you look at the calendar and it says a number lower than 28 order, this is where I make my

00:05:32 ◼   ► speech that, oh, every year, every sale, it's more than once a year, every sale, there's somebody

00:05:37 ◼   ► in the audience who says, oh, I'm not going to be that person.

00:05:39 ◼   ► There's no way I'm going to forget.

00:05:41 ◼   ► And then, and then a week later I get the toot or the tweet or the skeet or whatever we're

00:05:47 ◼   ► calling it and they say, oh no, oh no.

00:05:50 ◼   ► I didn't think I could be that person.

00:05:52 ◼   ► I'm that person.

00:05:52 ◼   ► I've done it.

00:05:53 ◼   ► I've missed the sale.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Can you bring it back?

00:05:54 ◼   ► Nope.

00:05:55 ◼   ► What about nope?

00:05:56 ◼   ► Are you sure?

00:05:56 ◼   ► What about nope?

00:05:57 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:05:58 ◼   ► That's the deal.

00:05:59 ◼   ► So please go to atp.fm slash store do so post haste because you are running out of time.

00:06:05 ◼   ► This is the last time you're going to be here going to be hearing about it on the show.

00:06:08 ◼   ► I will very quickly start running down the merch until John interrupts me.

00:06:12 ◼   ► We have M3 ultra, the M3 ultra interposer, which I am definitely going to be getting one

00:06:17 ◼   ► of the Mac Pro Believe shirt is coming back in regular and dark forms.

00:06:21 ◼   ► We've got the Pro Max that's come back in light and dark forms.

00:06:25 ◼   ► We've got my beloved, I mean that, ATP Performance shirt.

00:06:28 ◼   ► This is sort of, I don't think it's literally Under Armour, but it's sort of in that direction.

00:06:31 ◼   ► This is my favorite workout shirt.

00:06:33 ◼   ► I love these things.

00:06:34 ◼   ► I'm definitely going to be getting one or two of those to re-up.

00:06:36 ◼   ► We've got ATP 6 colors in a variety of different colors.

00:06:40 ◼   ► We've got the Classic ATP, the Zip Hoodie, the Polo, another one of my personal favorites.

00:06:44 ◼   ► The mug is still there, although we're running low, I think, John.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:06:49 ◼   ► I wish.

00:06:49 ◼   ► I wish we were running low.

00:06:50 ◼   ► Never mind.

00:06:51 ◼   ► No, John, you and me both messed up.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Let's try this again.

00:06:55 ◼   ► John, we're running low, right?

00:06:57 ◼   ► Please buy mugs.

00:06:58 ◼   ► Yes, Casey.

00:07:00 ◼   ► We are running so low that if you don't order right now, you may not get one.

00:07:03 ◼   ► That's what you were looking to say, John.

00:07:04 ◼   ► I heard you.

00:07:04 ◼   ► Supplies are, in fact, limited.

00:07:06 ◼   ► And then, finally, we do have the ATP hat.

00:07:09 ◼   ► So, please, ATP.fm slash store.

00:07:11 ◼   ► This is your one and final chance.

00:07:12 ◼   ► John, what if you wanted to get a little bit of money off the store?

00:07:15 ◼   ► How do you do that?

00:07:16 ◼   ► Yeah, don't forget, if you are already an ATP member, you get 15% off.

00:07:19 ◼   ► Go to your member page and get the code there and then paste it in the checkout process.

00:07:23 ◼   ► If you are logged into ATP.fm, when you go to the store page at ATP.fm slash store,

00:07:27 ◼   ► it should be added for you automatically.

00:07:29 ◼   ► But if you don't see it added automatically, don't click the purchase button.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Go back to your member page, copy and paste it.

00:07:33 ◼   ► It will work.

00:07:34 ◼   ► If you want to become a member to get the discount, it's probably worthwhile if you buy

00:07:38 ◼   ► any significant amount of stuff because it's a good discount and one month of membership

00:07:42 ◼   ► is not that expensive.

00:07:43 ◼   ► So, go to ATP.fm slash join to become a member, get the discount, and then you can buy whatever

00:07:48 ◼   ► work you want at 15% off.

00:07:49 ◼   ► And it will add the surprise hit of this sale is actually the Pro Max Triumph shirt in black.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:56 ◼   ► It's a very popular shirt and we haven't sold it for a while.

00:07:58 ◼   ► I think it's really good because, like I said, it looks, it just looks like a nice design

00:08:02 ◼   ► with nice colors on it from a distance.

00:08:04 ◼   ► It does say Accidental Tech Podcast so everyone doesn't have to ask you what your shirt's about

00:08:08 ◼   ► because if they actually care, they'll look at it and read and go, oh, it's a podcast shirt,

00:08:11 ◼   ► whatever.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And it's just an attractive shirt.

00:08:13 ◼   ► And if people look closer and they're actual nerds, they'll see that those little shapes

00:08:17 ◼   ► and colors aren't just shapes and colors but are in fact the silhouettes of powerful

00:08:19 ◼   ► Max over time.

00:08:21 ◼   ► So, yep, that's a big hit and I'm glad people are buying the Believe shirt still.

00:08:25 ◼   ► So, we'll see what we can do by manifesting that.

00:08:27 ◼   ► And then, as I noted last time, we don't sell the M shirts for the chips forever.

00:08:32 ◼   ► We usually just sell them in the sale after when they are introduced.

00:08:35 ◼   ► So, if you ever want an M3 Ultra shirt, you probably don't want the chip, but maybe you

00:08:40 ◼   ► want the shirt.

00:08:41 ◼   ► If you ever want an M3 Ultra shirt, normal or joke version, now is the time to get it.

00:08:45 ◼   ► Indeed.

00:08:46 ◼   ► So, atp.fm slash store.

00:08:47 ◼   ► And let me remind you, if you do sign up at atp.fm slash join, then you can go ahead

00:08:52 ◼   ► and binge all the bootlegs if you wanted.

00:08:55 ◼   ► You can binge the member specials.

00:08:56 ◼   ► We actually need to, or I think we just did schedule one, didn't we, for this month.

00:09:01 ◼   ► So, there's plenty to listen to.

00:09:03 ◼   ► We've got, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 hours with member specials at this point.

00:09:06 ◼   ► So, there's a lot there.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Way more than that.

00:09:08 ◼   ► No, look at that.

00:09:09 ◼   ► So, go to atp.fm slash store or slash join to do your best.

00:09:14 ◼   ► All right.

00:09:15 ◼   ► I wanted to briefly talk about a absolutely delightful bug reporting experience that I

00:09:21 ◼   ► recently had.

00:09:22 ◼   ► And I should tell you that it was not with Apple, which is why it was delightful.

00:09:26 ◼   ► But on the 5th of February, I finally got sick and tired of a ever so slightly esoteric bug

00:09:34 ◼   ► that I found in the Slack iPad app.

00:09:36 ◼   ► So, I used my iPad Pro, what year was it?

00:09:40 ◼   ► It was like 22 or 23.

00:09:41 ◼   ► It was before it got super duper thin.

00:09:43 ◼   ► And I used it with the original smart keyboard or magic keyboard, whatever it's called, the

00:09:47 ◼   ► cantilevered one.

00:09:48 ◼   ► And that's typically how I use my iPad.

00:09:50 ◼   ► And I noticed that if I was writing a multi-line message in Slack, so, you know, it's three or

00:09:58 ◼   ► four lines long or something like that.

00:09:59 ◼   ► If I used the arrow keys on the smart keyboard to perhaps go back a line or something like

00:10:04 ◼   ► that, instead of arrowing within that text field, what it would do, it would select the

00:10:12 ◼   ► prior message as though I was not in the midst of editing anything.

00:10:16 ◼   ► That's a little difficult to describe verbally.

00:10:18 ◼   ► But if I'm trying to arrow around within the message, instead of treating it as an editing

00:10:22 ◼   ► operation, it's just, it's treated as a selection operation and it's going, you know, up and

00:10:27 ◼   ► down the stack of prior messages.

00:10:28 ◼   ► I reported this on the 5th of February.

00:10:30 ◼   ► I don't have the bug report in front of me, but it was like two or three lines long and

00:10:34 ◼   ► probably a little snarky because I was so fed up with this.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Did you report it from within the app?

00:10:38 ◼   ► Yes, I believe so.

00:10:40 ◼   ► I think I did like help or something like that within the app.

00:10:42 ◼   ► I mean, this was the 5th of February.

00:10:43 ◼   ► What I've done before, my recollection is like, I was looking at, oh, how do you report

00:10:46 ◼   ► a bug in Slack?

00:10:47 ◼   ► And somewhere in the actual Slack app itself, probably on the Mac where I was doing it, there's

00:10:50 ◼   ► a way you find like, oh, help support something.

00:10:52 ◼   ► And it just leads you through the process from within the app to complain about the app itself.

00:10:56 ◼   ► So it's not like you have to go to a website and find a way to find their hidden support

00:11:00 ◼   ► page or something.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Yep, that's correct.

00:11:02 ◼   ► So again, that was the 5th of February I reported it.

00:11:04 ◼   ► It was the bare minimum amount of information to understand what I was saying.

00:11:07 ◼   ► That was the 5th of February.

00:11:08 ◼   ► I want to say it was afternoon or maybe even evening, Eastern time.

00:11:13 ◼   ► But less than two hours later, let me repeat that for you.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Less than two hours later, I got an acknowledgement of my bug report and they said, you're right.

00:11:24 ◼   ► We've reproduced it.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Less than two hours later, I got receipt and reproduction acknowledgement.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Amazing.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Then they disappeared.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Perfectly reasonable.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I don't expect this to be fixed yesterday.

00:11:39 ◼   ► It's not really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

00:11:42 ◼   ► No worries.

00:11:43 ◼   ► So 5th of February, there's a tiny bit of back and forth as they confirmed and so on and so

00:11:46 ◼   ► forth.

00:11:47 ◼   ► 21st of April, yesterday as I record this, they sent me a message that said, hey, it's fixed.

00:11:53 ◼   ► Would you mind trying it out?

00:11:54 ◼   ► And guess what?

00:11:55 ◼   ► It was fixed.

00:11:56 ◼   ► And I tried it out and it was fixed and it was great.

00:11:58 ◼   ► Two months, two and a half months.

00:12:00 ◼   ► Done.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Imagine that.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Imagine that.

00:12:03 ◼   ► How cool.

00:12:04 ◼   ► Well done, Slack.

00:12:05 ◼   ► I just wanted to share.

00:12:06 ◼   ► One of the other major points here is that this was not a crash or data loss bug.

00:12:09 ◼   ► No.

00:12:10 ◼   ► No.

00:12:10 ◼   ► It's not like a P1.

00:12:12 ◼   ► No.

00:12:12 ◼   ► This is destroying my data.

00:12:14 ◼   ► The app doesn't work.

00:12:15 ◼   ► I can't run it.

00:12:16 ◼   ► It's like the lowest possible priority of a bug in a feature that is very obscure, that

00:12:21 ◼   ► you have a workaround for, that's just kind of annoying, and still it got acknowledged and

00:12:26 ◼   ► miraculously also fixed.

00:12:28 ◼   ► And this gets back to our long discussion about ratios of like, how many users do Slack

00:12:33 ◼   ► have?

00:12:33 ◼   ► You know, how many support people do they hire?

00:12:35 ◼   ► How many of all the users of Slack actually report bugs?

00:12:38 ◼   ► How many of those bugs are actually real?

00:12:40 ◼   ► And whatever the ratios are, Slack has arranged their money and time such that they can, and

00:12:46 ◼   ► this is my experience too, I've reported bugs to Slack, they can acknowledge the bugs

00:12:50 ◼   ► and give you an idea of whether or not they're thinking of fixing them and then actually fix

00:12:55 ◼   ► them.

00:12:56 ◼   ► I didn't keep this kind of meticulous track of the various bugs that I've reported, but

00:12:59 ◼   ► in general, they have been either fixed or if they were like design bugs, they would

00:13:03 ◼   ► say we have a feature in upcoming release that will address your concern in some way or whatever.

00:13:07 ◼   ► So good communication, good finding and fixing of bugs, and kudos to them for not throwing

00:13:14 ◼   ► everything except for P1 bugs into a giant black hole.

00:13:17 ◼   ► Yep.

00:13:17 ◼   ► Couldn't agree more.

00:13:18 ◼   ► Jay Mullins writes, with regard to third-party storage, I swapped out an M4 Mac Mini's 512 gigabyte

00:13:24 ◼   ► SSD for a 2 terabyte third-party SSD, and I haven't had any issues.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Read and write is the same.

00:13:30 ◼   ► I would have bought my Mac Mini with a 256 gig SSD had I known at the time that a 2 terabyte

00:13:35 ◼   ► third-party upgrade was a real thing.

00:13:37 ◼   ► So then apparently, John, you had asked which particular specimen Jay Mullins had gotten,

00:13:43 ◼   ► and Jay wrote back, I ended up rolling the dice with AliExpress and provided a link, which

00:13:48 ◼   ► we will put in the show notes.

00:13:49 ◼   ► As I load it right now, it is $130 for, I can't tell what size this is.

00:13:56 ◼   ► Oh, a half-terabyte SSD.

00:13:58 ◼   ► One terabyte is 160.

00:14:00 ◼   ► Two terabyte is 280, and so on and so forth.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Pretty, pretty good.

00:14:04 ◼   ► So it's significantly cheaper than the Apple thing.

00:14:06 ◼   ► This is getting back to all of our things about the French company that redid the circuit

00:14:11 ◼   ► boards, and that Eiboff company we talked about last time, and AliExpress is a whole bunch of

00:14:14 ◼   ► these.

00:14:15 ◼   ► I agree that it's kind of rolling the dice, because you're like, ah, is this going to work?

00:14:19 ◼   ► Is this company reputable or whatever?

00:14:21 ◼   ► But I'm happy to hear someone have a success story, because you just saved so much money.

00:14:26 ◼   ► And again, I don't know what their return policy is or whatever, so it may just be rolling

00:14:30 ◼   ► the dice.

00:14:30 ◼   ► But there are an increasing number of options for storage, and this is really making me,

00:14:35 ◼   ► like I said, consider this for whatever my next Mac may be.

00:14:39 ◼   ► Some of these companies still haven't rolled out their Mac Studio products, but they're all

00:14:43 ◼   ► promising them.

00:14:44 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah, options seem to exist.

00:14:47 ◼   ► Again, you can't vouch for their reliability and how well they're going to work over the

00:14:51 ◼   ► long term or whether they work at all or what their return policy is.

00:14:54 ◼   ► But I love it when I hear somebody save hundreds and hundreds of dollars by buying third-party

00:14:57 ◼   ► storage.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Couldn't agree more.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Stephen Merrill writes, I'm not sure why Marco said that the USB-C charging case for

00:15:04 ◼   ► AirPods Pro wouldn't work with AirPods Pro Mark 1, or in my case, Mark 2.

00:15:08 ◼   ► I've been using one with mine for more than a year now, and Stephen provided a link to MagSafe

00:15:14 ◼   ► charging case USB-C for AirPods Pro 2nd Gen, which is $100, which is not cheap.

00:15:22 ◼   ► But nevertheless, apparently it should work.

00:15:24 ◼   ► Yep, my bad.

00:15:26 ◼   ► All right, then I should put in a disclaimer.

00:15:29 ◼   ► We're going to be talking about a Hacker News link to Reddit, so this is going to be grumps

00:15:34 ◼   ► all the way down.

00:15:35 ◼   ► But nevertheless...

00:15:35 ◼   ► Here on the Accidental Positivity Podcast, we would never complain about anything.

00:15:39 ◼   ► Touché, touché.

00:15:42 ◼   ► Cursor, the IDE, their support apparently has hallucinated some things, and it caused a

00:15:47 ◼   ► whole bunch of people to get upset.

00:15:48 ◼   ► So ScaredPelican on Hacker News writes, summarizing a Reddit post, Cursor, the magical AI-powered

00:15:54 ◼   ► IDE, started kicking users off when they logged in from multiple machines.

00:15:57 ◼   ► Naturally, people thought this was a new policy, so they asked support.

00:16:00 ◼   ► Support told everyone that this was quote-unquote expected behavior under their new login policy.

00:16:05 ◼   ► One problem, there was no support team.

00:16:07 ◼   ► It was an AI designed to mimic human responses.

00:16:09 ◼   ► That answer, totally made up by the bot, spread like wildfire.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Users assumed it was real, because why wouldn't they?

00:16:14 ◼   ► It's their own support system.

00:16:15 ◼   ► And within hours, the community was in revolt.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Dozens of users publicly canceled their subscriptions, myself included.

00:16:21 ◼   ► This is one of the most surreal product screw-ups I've ever seen.

00:16:24 ◼   ► Not because they made a mistake, but because the AI support system invented a lie, and nobody

00:16:29 ◼   ► caught it until the user base imploded.

00:16:30 ◼   ► Whoops-y-dupsies.

00:16:32 ◼   ► So Cursor is one of these Vibe Coding, I don't know if they consider themselves a Vibe Coding

00:16:37 ◼   ► product, but their name is always in the conversation when we discuss Vibe Coding, especially with

00:16:41 ◼   ► people who are essentially non-coders or have limited coding experience but want to do something

00:16:45 ◼   ► complicated.

00:16:45 ◼   ► You can use AI to help you with these IDEs, integrate it so you're not copying and pasting,

00:16:50 ◼   ► but you're still just like talking to the LM while your code is in an ID-like environment.

00:16:54 ◼   ► And Cursor is one of those companies.

00:16:56 ◼   ► And companies like this, you would imagine, are big on LLMs and say, hey, we're a new

00:17:01 ◼   ► company, we're a small company, we've got this LLM-based product, what else can we use

00:17:04 ◼   ► LLMs or maybe we can use them to answer easy support questions?

00:17:06 ◼   ► Maybe they'll be at the other end of our support email so we don't have to answer them and just

00:17:10 ◼   ► provide answers for us.

00:17:11 ◼   ► This being Hacker News and Reddit, there is the conspiracy theory that actually there's

00:17:16 ◼   ► no LLM involved and this was an actual policy change and then they thought better of it

00:17:20 ◼   ► when everybody canceled another blaming it on the LLM, which would be fun.

00:17:23 ◼   ► Throw the core technology of their entire business under the bus to save face when you make a

00:17:28 ◼   ► bad policy decision.

00:17:30 ◼   ► So we're not sure what the situation really is, but I just want to say that this does bring

00:17:37 ◼   ► to mind the exact attitude I see in lots of companies that are very enthusiastic about LLMs.

00:17:46 ◼   ► I feel like their enthusiasm rapidly has outrun the capabilities of LLMs and so they will

00:17:52 ◼   ► say, oh, why would we ever hire a support person?

00:17:55 ◼   ► The LLMs can handle that, we'll train them on our knowledge base of our products and then

00:18:00 ◼   ► we'll just have them answer the emails and they can do a great job of that.

00:18:04 ◼   ► And that's not how LLMs work.

00:18:07 ◼   ► I mean, you know, not to bash on Siri some more, but lots of people in the sport of bashing

00:18:12 ◼   ► on Siri are asking it questions and leveraging Apple's supposed product knowledge.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Like Gruber has done a couple of these where it's like, you know, Apple touted the fact

00:18:20 ◼   ► that they have trained Siri on their products.

00:18:23 ◼   ► And so you can ask it, how do I do this with my iPhone or whatever?

00:18:25 ◼   ► Yeah, you can ask it.

00:18:27 ◼   ► And it just makes up stuff and tells you the wrong thing sometimes.

00:18:29 ◼   ► Sometimes it doesn't.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Sometimes it gets it right.

00:18:31 ◼   ► But, you know, other times it's just like, do this, do that, go here, do that.

00:18:34 ◼   ► And like, that doesn't exist.

00:18:35 ◼   ► And that's wrong.

00:18:36 ◼   ► And so I really question the value of something like this because maybe it's valuable not to

00:18:42 ◼   ► have to answer every support email.

00:18:43 ◼   ► But how do you calculate the net value of giving wrong answers to people?

00:18:48 ◼   ► It could be small in which I guess they just write back and maybe they get through to a

00:18:52 ◼   ► human and they're just slightly annoyed.

00:18:53 ◼   ► Or it could be big and that the LLM gives wrong answers and, you know, and says that

00:18:58 ◼   ► they are the right answers to something that causes a whole bunch of people to cancel their

00:19:02 ◼   ► subscriptions to your service.

00:19:04 ◼   ► So I would say maybe this was a poor choice of where and how to deploy LLMs.

00:19:09 ◼   ► We need some kind of a better framework for this.

00:19:13 ◼   ► But basically, if, you know, as discussed with programming, if it's if it's deployed in

00:19:17 ◼   ► a scenario where you were going to check its work anyway and you have an easy way to check

00:19:20 ◼   ► its work, that's probably good.

00:19:21 ◼   ► And you can tolerate mistakes.

00:19:23 ◼   ► If it's deployed in a place where you're not going to be paying attention to what it's

00:19:26 ◼   ► doing and it could be lying to your customers, not so good.

00:19:29 ◼   ► And if you think, well, we'll just get a better LLM that doesn't make mistakes, we'll

00:19:32 ◼   ► let you know when someone makes one of those.

00:19:34 ◼   ► But so far, it does not exist.

00:19:35 ◼   ► All right.

00:19:36 ◼   ► Then the New York Times had a post with regard to Elon Musk and leadership in this post is

00:19:43 ◼   ► titled America is learning the wrong lesson from Elon Musk's success.

00:19:47 ◼   ► This is by Adam Grant, who is an organizational psychologist at UPenn, reading a few quotes

00:19:53 ◼   ► from the article.

00:19:54 ◼   ► The evidence is clear.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Leadership by intimidation and insult is a bad strategy.

00:19:58 ◼   ► Belittling people doesn't boost their productivity, but diminishes it.

00:20:01 ◼   ► In a study of nearly 700 NBA players, those who had an abusive coach perform worse for the

00:20:05 ◼   ► rest of their careers, even after they left the team.

00:20:08 ◼   ► Disrespect doesn't just demotivate.

00:20:10 ◼   ► It also disrupts focus, causing costly mistakes.

00:20:13 ◼   ► In a medical simulation, professionals and neonatal intensive care teams had to diagnose a potentially

00:20:18 ◼   ► life-threatening condition and then respond rapidly with the correct procedures.

00:20:21 ◼   ► Right beforehand, some of them were randomly assigned to hear a visiting expert disparage

00:20:25 ◼   ► their work.

00:20:25 ◼   ► Briefly insulting physicians and nurses was enough to reduce the accuracy of their diagnoses by

00:20:29 ◼   ► nearly 17% and the effectiveness of their procedures by 15%.

00:20:32 ◼   ► So you heard it here first.

00:20:34 ◼   ► Be nice to your doctors.

00:20:36 ◼   ► Take it from a review of over 400 studies across 36 countries with nearly 150,000 people

00:20:41 ◼   ► in the face of workplace aggression.

00:20:42 ◼   ► People are less productive, less collaborative, and more inclined to shirk their responsibilities.

00:20:46 ◼   ► Abusive bosses break confidence and breed resentment.

00:20:49 ◼   ► And ruthless, haphazard downsizing can cause the highest performers, the ones who have the most

00:20:54 ◼   ► and best opportunities elsewhere, to jump ship.

00:20:57 ◼   ► Denigrating people is not a path to accomplishing meaningful goals.

00:21:00 ◼   ► It reflects a lack of self-control and a shortage of emotional intelligence.

00:21:03 ◼   ► Hear, hear.

00:21:04 ◼   ► This is related to our recent discussions about leadership styles and yelling at the Siri team

00:21:09 ◼   ► and Steve Jobs and, you know, mobile me and yelling at that team.

00:21:13 ◼   ► And, you know, again, taking the wrong lessons from people who are successful and thinking

00:21:16 ◼   ► everything they do is something that should be imitated and whether or not they succeed despite

00:21:21 ◼   ► their things.

00:21:22 ◼   ► This whole topic is very much on both sides.

00:21:25 ◼   ► It's, in fact, very much tempting.

00:21:28 ◼   ► It causes people to view it based on how they feel about it.

00:21:34 ◼   ► So on the yelling at people side, if you are a customer and you're using a product and it's

00:21:39 ◼   ► bad, you feel like, boy, I wish someone would yell at the people who made this.

00:21:42 ◼   ► Like the satisfaction of feeling like I'm annoyed by this product.

00:21:45 ◼   ► How can I find the people responsible and make them feel bad?

00:21:49 ◼   ► It's just, you know, revenge or like, you know, hoping that someone is held accountable or however

00:21:55 ◼   ► you want to phrase it.

00:21:56 ◼   ► It emotionally feels good to think that this thing that is annoying you or doing a bad thing

00:22:01 ◼   ► or has deleted your data or whatever your problem is, you feel like those people need

00:22:04 ◼   ► to be punished.

00:22:05 ◼   ► That desire to punish wrongdoing, right?

00:22:07 ◼   ► That's an innate personal thing.

00:22:09 ◼   ► If you are, in fact, a manager of people, very often you feel like people aren't doing a

00:22:16 ◼   ► good job and they're not listening to me.

00:22:17 ◼   ► Maybe I should yell at them to let them know that I'm serious, to make them tough, to toughen

00:22:24 ◼   ► them up, all sorts of, you know, sort of authoritarian instincts that we have when dealing with other

00:22:30 ◼   ► people, especially if you're in charge of them or fancy yourself as being in charge of

00:22:34 ◼   ► them.

00:22:34 ◼   ► That's a form of leadership.

00:22:35 ◼   ► So leaders feel like they should do it because especially men leaders, they have to be tough

00:22:39 ◼   ► and macho and there's all sorts of cultural and emotional things that lead to that.

00:22:44 ◼   ► And then on the other side of it, the people say, oh, you should be nice to people because

00:22:48 ◼   ► being nice to people is nice.

00:22:50 ◼   ► And I feel like when I see people getting yelled at, I feel empathy for them.

00:22:55 ◼   ► And I say, please don't yell at those people.

00:22:57 ◼   ► That's not nice.

00:22:57 ◼   ► It's making them feel bad.

00:22:58 ◼   ► That's how people view this issue on all sides.

00:23:02 ◼   ► Whatever your opinion is, there is some emotionally fulfilling, deeply rooted lizard brain motivation

00:23:09 ◼   ► to support your opinion.

00:23:11 ◼   ► And that's why you need, you know, it's like, how do you tell?

00:23:15 ◼   ► All right.

00:23:15 ◼   ► So we have all these conflicting opinions and different emotions.

00:23:18 ◼   ► How do we tell which one is true?

00:23:20 ◼   ► Science.

00:23:21 ◼   ► That's how we try to tell whether things are true or not.

00:23:25 ◼   ► And obviously, science is conducted by humans who have biases and emotions, but it's the

00:23:29 ◼   ► best tool that we have because if they make mistakes, future people can come up and show

00:23:33 ◼   ► that they made mistakes and so on and so forth.

00:23:35 ◼   ► Anyway, studies.

00:23:37 ◼   ► If you, you know, rather than picking the answer that you think is the one that makes you feel

00:23:43 ◼   ► better, whether you're predominantly an empathetic person who thinks people shouldn't be yelled

00:23:47 ◼   ► at or you're predominantly an authoritarian person who thinks people who do bad things should

00:23:50 ◼   ► get yelled at.

00:23:51 ◼   ► We can study it and find out and it's not close, like it's not sort of a hairline thing,

00:23:56 ◼   ► different realms, places where people would even the people who are strongly in favor of

00:24:01 ◼   ► empathy would never have guessed things like that.

00:24:03 ◼   ► If you're an NBA player and you had an abusive coach at any point in your career, it screws

00:24:08 ◼   ► your whole career for years afterwards.

00:24:10 ◼   ► Like that is a surprising result.

00:24:13 ◼   ► Doctors like who cares if a visiting expert says something bad?

00:24:18 ◼   ► Why would you get so measurably worse at your job because someone just said something mildly

00:24:22 ◼   ► bad about like just it's really, it's really fairly conclusive.

00:24:27 ◼   ► And it's not to say that you should, you know, never hold people accountable or say whatever

00:24:32 ◼   ► they do is fine or whatever.

00:24:34 ◼   ► That's again, that's the, the other side of the lizard blame saying, so you're saying I

00:24:37 ◼   ► shouldn't yell at people and people should do whatever they want, right?

00:24:39 ◼   ► All it's saying is that being abusive to people, although it might feel good in the moment

00:24:43 ◼   ► or might seem cathartic from the outside does not actually produce results.

00:24:47 ◼   ► So do you care about the actual performance of results or do you just care about feeling

00:24:51 ◼   ► good about the situation?

00:24:52 ◼   ► And again, that goes on the flip side too.

00:24:54 ◼   ► Do you care about just feeling good about being nice about people to people or do you

00:24:57 ◼   ► care about results?

00:24:57 ◼   ► It could be argued that if these studies went the other way, people who are empathetic would

00:25:02 ◼   ► still say, okay, well, it gets better results, but that's not worth destroying people for,

00:25:04 ◼   ► which is the point we've made on many past episodes that like the end all be all is not

00:25:10 ◼   ► the productivity of your employees and success of your company.

00:25:13 ◼   ► Human lives actually matter and you shouldn't grind up humans as a process of doing that.

00:25:16 ◼   ► But anyway, you don't have, the good thing is in this case, you don't have to make that

00:25:20 ◼   ► hard choice.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Not being a jerk to your employees actually makes them perform better.

00:25:23 ◼   ► So please do that.

00:25:25 ◼   ► We were sponsored this episode by Notion.

00:25:29 ◼   ► Notion combines your notes, docs, and projects into one space that's simple and beautifully designed.

00:25:35 ◼   ► I'm very impressed by Notion.

00:25:37 ◼   ► There is so much functionality, but it's so clean and nice.

00:25:40 ◼   ► So, you know, there's a lot to like unlock there if you want to, if you want to add more

00:25:45 ◼   ► power.

00:25:45 ◼   ► But if you don't want certain power features, they don't get in your way.

00:25:48 ◼   ► They don't like clutter things up.

00:25:49 ◼   ► It's a great product.

00:25:50 ◼   ► I really have been very impressed from what I've seen and tried from Notion.

00:25:53 ◼   ► And, you know, these days there is no shortage of helpful AI tools out there, but using them

00:25:58 ◼   ► usually means like switching back and forth between stuff.

00:26:00 ◼   ► With Notion, you can now leverage AI and all of its power right inside Notion across all

00:26:06 ◼   ► your notes and docs without jumping between your work and a separate AI tool.

00:26:09 ◼   ► Notion is your one place to connect teams, tools, and knowledge.

00:26:13 ◼   ► So you are empowered to do your most meaningful work.

00:26:17 ◼   ► And now the fully integrated Notion AI helps you work faster, write better, and think bigger,

00:26:21 ◼   ► doing tasks that normally would have taken you hours in just seconds.

00:26:25 ◼   ► It is so powerful.

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00:26:28 ◼   ► You can write faster by letting Notion AI handle drafting.

00:26:30 ◼   ► You can brainstorm with it, or you can turn your messy notes into something more polished.

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00:26:39 ◼   ► Notion AI does all this and more, freeing you up to do the real deep work.

00:26:44 ◼   ► It's used by over half of Fortune 500 companies, and teams that use Notion end up sending less

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00:27:03 ◼   ► Once again, that is a free trial.

00:27:05 ◼   ► Try Notion for free when you go to notion.com slash ATP.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Notion for sponsoring our show.

00:27:12 ◼   ► In the show notes, in our internal show notes, there's a line item labeled Marco's new TV.

00:27:22 ◼   ► But I have a real strong suspicion that this is John living vicariously through Marco and

00:27:29 ◼   ► still trying to tell him what to buy.

00:27:30 ◼   ► So Marco, did you buy a new TV?

00:27:32 ◼   ► Of course not.

00:27:33 ◼   ► My restaurant opened this weekend.

00:27:35 ◼   ► How am I going to buy a new TV?

00:27:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:27:36 ◼   ► There's plenty of time to do this.

00:27:38 ◼   ► We talked about it.

00:27:38 ◼   ► When?

00:27:39 ◼   ► We covered it pretty well last week with a couple of follow-up items.

00:27:45 ◼   ► I mean, in all fairness, you're right.

00:27:47 ◼   ► There is time to buy a new TV.

00:27:49 ◼   ► So yes, I could have placed an order on Amazon.

00:27:51 ◼   ► But if I had done that, which I have not for this reason, it would just be sitting in a

00:27:55 ◼   ► box for like a month.

00:27:56 ◼   ► Like, what am I going to do?

00:27:57 ◼   ► Plus, you're waiting for everyone to test the Bravia 2.

00:28:00 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:28:00 ◼   ► Yes, that was it.

00:28:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:02 ◼   ► I was considering the Bravia 2.2.

00:28:04 ◼   ► I mean, it hasn't actually shipped to people, so they can't test it yet.

00:28:07 ◼   ► So in the last episode, I referenced Arting's new glare testing.

00:28:10 ◼   ► In this episode, I just want to put in the show notes the link to that video if you want

00:28:14 ◼   ► to watch it to show that there's so much more to deciding whether an anti-glare coating

00:28:20 ◼   ► actually works or what it actually does or whether you benefit from it at all.

00:28:24 ◼   ► And then the next one is a point I was trying to make last time but didn't do a very good

00:28:27 ◼   ► job at, so I have a timestamp link to a video here.

00:28:30 ◼   ► It's talking about brightness.

00:28:31 ◼   ► And whenever we talk about this, you know, the upshot is always mini-LED can get brighter

00:28:36 ◼   ► than OLED, and Mark was concerned about that because he's got a bright room.

00:28:38 ◼   ► And this is the point I was trying to make last time about brightness.

00:28:43 ◼   ► When we say mini-LED TVs are brighter than OLED TVs, it's because OLED TVs cannot maintain

00:28:50 ◼   ► the same brightness across the entire screen.

00:28:52 ◼   ► So when they measure them during testing, they'll say, we'll make a little rectangle in

00:28:57 ◼   ► the middle of the screen that is only 10% the size of the entire screen.

00:29:00 ◼   ► They call that a 10% window, and they measure the brightness there.

00:29:03 ◼   ► And sometimes maybe an OLED can get up to like 4,000 minutes, which is like really high.

00:29:06 ◼   ► It's like the highest, you know, that's plenty, right?

00:29:09 ◼   ► But then when they take that 10% window, it's just a white rectangle, it's 10% of the screen,

00:29:14 ◼   ► and they make it 100% of the screen.

00:29:16 ◼   ► The brightness doesn't go from like 4,000 down to 3,000.

00:29:19 ◼   ► It goes from like 4,000 down to 300.

00:29:21 ◼   ► It's a big, big drop because of power and heat concerns.

00:29:25 ◼   ► That's a limitation of the OLED technology.

00:29:28 ◼   ► But unless you're watching that one scene in The Matrix where Neo's there in the big white

00:29:32 ◼   ► empty room where you're watching a Johnny Ive video, I guess, most of the time your screen

00:29:35 ◼   ► is not 100% white.

00:29:36 ◼   ► And so that usually doesn't come up in actual viewing.

00:29:39 ◼   ► On the flip side of that, mini-LED TVs, because they have different backlight regions, when they

00:29:45 ◼   ► have a scene that has a bunch of different things in it, but with like some bright highlights,

00:29:48 ◼   ► even though mini-LED TVs can get super, super bright, like if you do just a big white square

00:29:53 ◼   ► over the whole screen, they can just blow your eyeballs out.

00:29:56 ◼   ► If you have a bunch of highlights below an otherwise normal looking image, mini-LED TVs generally

00:30:04 ◼   ► don't crank up those highlights to the same brightness as they can at the full screen.

00:30:09 ◼   ► And that's because if they did, you would get blooming halos around them because the

00:30:13 ◼   ► highlight may be some shiny thing on the edge of someone's shoulder or something, but the

00:30:17 ◼   ► backlight behind it is like a one and a half inch by one and a half inch square.

00:30:20 ◼   ► So if you crank up that tiny highlight to be 4,000 nits, you're going to see this giant

00:30:25 ◼   ► bloom behind it because the LCD panel cannot stop that incredibly bright backlight from bleeding

00:30:31 ◼   ► through.

00:30:31 ◼   ► And all of these mini-LED TVs have computers controlling them and sensing, oh, how high

00:30:36 ◼   ► can I safely turn up this backlight to make the highlight highlighty, but without causing

00:30:40 ◼   ► blooming?

00:30:41 ◼   ► And modern mini-LED TVs are good at that in that they don't have a lot of blooming, but

00:30:45 ◼   ► they sacrifice overall brightness.

00:30:46 ◼   ► So this timestamp link to this video showing the LG G5 shows a situation in which a normal

00:30:52 ◼   ► looking image is actually brighter on the OLED G5 than it is on a mini-LED TV because the

00:30:59 ◼   ► G5 is only being asked to crank up the brightness on a few highlighty areas, and it can do that

00:31:04 ◼   ► because it has per-pixel lighting control.

00:31:06 ◼   ► Whereas the mini-LED TV showing the exact same image has to tone down its backlight because

00:31:12 ◼   ► otherwise it will have blooming and hails and stuff.

00:31:15 ◼   ► It's not to say every scene is going to be like that.

00:31:17 ◼   ► Again, that scene in the Matrix where all the guns come flying and that's going to be brighter

00:31:21 ◼   ► on a mini-LED TV, but all this is to say is that the LG G5, which is out now, and if Marco

00:31:28 ◼   ► had to buy a TV right now, now, now, I would say that's the one he should get because he's

00:31:32 ◼   ► had LG OLEDs and he's like them, and the Sony one isn't, you can't actually buy it yet.

00:31:36 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:31:37 ◼   ► It's very bright for an OLED, and in some situations, a very bright OLED is actually brighter than

00:31:45 ◼   ► a very bright mini-LED TV because it doesn't have to worry about blooming.

00:31:48 ◼   ► So that's the point I would add.

00:31:50 ◼   ► So Marco, if you're going to panic buy something which doesn't sound like you are, get an LG G5.

00:31:53 ◼   ► If you can hold out, please hold out until people test the LG G5 versus the Sonya Bravia

00:31:59 ◼   ► 8 Roman numeral 2.

00:32:01 ◼   ► And once they do that test, then you'll know which one to get if you're set on OLED, which

00:32:06 ◼   ► it seems like you are.

00:32:07 ◼   ► And to be clear, there's two different TVs that are on the approval list to be replaced

00:32:14 ◼   ► in the following year.

00:32:16 ◼   ► One of them is at the beach where reflection and performance in a bright room is incredibly

00:32:22 ◼   ► important.

00:32:23 ◼   ► The other one is, you know, back at home where that's almost not important at all.

00:32:28 ◼   ► So there are actually different criteria for the two TVs.

00:32:31 ◼   ► Both of them, I want to be OLEDs around the 65-inch range.

00:32:36 ◼   ► But, you know, it's for the most part, the reflectivity is like the number one thing at the beach because

00:32:43 ◼   ► that really does control a lot of when we can use that TV.

00:32:47 ◼   ► Yeah, the Samsung S95F is kind of still in the mix.

00:32:51 ◼   ► I hate that TV because the lack of Dolby Vision and their bad processing, but it is the only

00:32:55 ◼   ► one of the high-end TVs that even attempts to have a really fancy anti-glark coating.

00:32:58 ◼   ► I personally am very against it, but depending on return policy, you could give that a try.

00:33:03 ◼   ► I feel like it's just going to make it worse, not better.

00:33:05 ◼   ► And I feel like getting the maximum brightness is really your go-to.

00:33:08 ◼   ► So that's why I would pick for the beach TV, whatever has the maximum brightness, which

00:33:13 ◼   ► is why I'm leaning towards the G5.

00:33:14 ◼   ► But anyway, it's a tricky situation, but we'll find out if and when you ever get your

00:33:19 ◼   ► head above water to consider stuff like that, maybe in the fall.

00:33:22 ◼   ► All right.

00:33:23 ◼   ► With regard to Apple's self-service repair program, Sky of Leedy writes, I had an M1 MacBook Pro

00:33:30 ◼   ► with water damage.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Ben, there.

00:33:31 ◼   ► Rather than paying $300 AppleCare accidental damage fee, I paid $13.20 plus sales tax with

00:33:38 ◼   ► free shipping to have a replacement lid angle sensor sent to me with a potential for $5.72

00:33:43 ◼   ► of credit.

00:33:44 ◼   ► After returning the defective lid angle sensor, the total cost to me was $8.56 with a maximum

00:33:49 ◼   ► of $14.28 ever leaving my bank account.

00:33:52 ◼   ► I was not required to pay a $1,000 deposit for a bulky Pelican case, which I then had to

00:33:56 ◼   ► return to a post office.

00:33:57 ◼   ► I was not required to purchase any screws, tools, or accessories.

00:34:01 ◼   ► The only packaging I received contained the lid angle sensor.

00:34:04 ◼   ► I used my wife's iFixit toolkit to perform the entirety of the repair.

00:34:07 ◼   ► I didn't need to go to an Apple store or have my SSD erased.

00:34:10 ◼   ► Total time to disassemble, reassemble, and run the system configuration tool was 25 minutes.

00:34:14 ◼   ► I would like to dispel the myth that the self-service repair program is user hostile.

00:34:18 ◼   ► This is a fantastic program, literally the gold standard for ordering spare parts, and I don't

00:34:22 ◼   ► believe Apple has gotten anywhere near the amount of praise they deserve for it.

00:34:25 ◼   ► This is another example where the Mac has many advantages.

00:34:28 ◼   ► Part of the reason they give you those giant Pelican cases and everything for the iPhone

00:34:32 ◼   ► is because you can't just open an iPhone with a screwdriver.

00:34:34 ◼   ► You need lots of tools, and if you want to do it without breaking the case or shattering

00:34:39 ◼   ► the glass in the back, and then you have to reassemble it and put the adhesives in, and

00:34:42 ◼   ► you know, yada yada.

00:34:43 ◼   ► MacBooks, much to our chagrin, are not waterproof, and so it's easier to open and close them.

00:34:50 ◼   ► If you have successfully diagnosed it and the lid angle sensor is the only thing you need,

00:34:53 ◼   ► yeah, you can do a quick repair, provide you're comfortable opening the thing and closing it,

00:34:56 ◼   ► and provided the part you need to replace doesn't require disassembling the entire thing, which

00:34:59 ◼   ► can be the case, depending on where the part is.

00:35:02 ◼   ► In the case of water damage, I do question whether that is the only part that needs to

00:35:06 ◼   ► be replaced and how far the water has traveled and what other parts might be corroding in there,

00:35:10 ◼   ► but you know, that's true when you send it out for repair as well.

00:35:13 ◼   ► But anyway, this is just a positive report where if you think that the self-repair program,

00:35:17 ◼   ► you should just ignore it entirely because they always, you know, make you prepay for

00:35:21 ◼   ► $1,000 worth of tools.

00:35:22 ◼   ► If you have a Mac that can be open with a screwdriver, they don't make you do that.

00:35:25 ◼   ► All right, let's talk topics.

00:35:27 ◼   ► And over the last week or so, maybe it was a little more than a week ago, there was a Mark

00:35:33 ◼   ► German report that, well, let me just read it.

00:35:36 ◼   ► I'm told that iPadOS 19 will focus on productivity, multitasking, and app window management with an

00:35:41 ◼   ► eye on the device operating more like a Mac.

00:35:43 ◼   ► It's been a long time coming with iPad power users pleading with Apple to make the tablet

00:35:47 ◼   ► more powerful.

00:35:48 ◼   ► Uh, okay.

00:35:50 ◼   ► I mean, that sounds great on the surface, but what does that really mean?

00:35:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:54 ◼   ► So this, this passage here is like, well, was there more to it?

00:35:56 ◼   ► Was there more detail?

00:35:57 ◼   ► You would think so based on the like multi-page length articles that this two cents description

00:36:02 ◼   ► has spawned in the week since it came out.

00:36:04 ◼   ► Every site's like going, you know, they're just back on their BS as they say about, oh,

00:36:09 ◼   ► iPad, you know, what's their problems?

00:36:11 ◼   ► They're going to fix it.

00:36:12 ◼   ► This is going to be the year.

00:36:13 ◼   ► Like there, there's more discussion in the German post about this, but it's mostly just

00:36:18 ◼   ► him talking about the history of people being dissatisfied or like, there's not a lot of

00:36:22 ◼   ► information here.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Um, but it's enough to get people's juices flowing on this.

00:36:27 ◼   ► They're like, oh, iPadOS.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Yes, it annoys me.

00:36:30 ◼   ► And it should be better.

00:36:30 ◼   ► And it should be more like the Mac and multitasking and window management.

00:36:33 ◼   ► And there's no details.

00:36:34 ◼   ► And so everyone is just mapping their hopes and dreams onto it.

00:36:37 ◼   ► Uh, but here's the thing.

00:36:38 ◼   ► Like we know, uh, well, we know we, we have heard, uh, the, uh, rumors, uh, that have been

00:36:44 ◼   ► reiterated from multiple sources about the big OS redesign that we've just discussed on past

00:36:48 ◼   ► shows.

00:36:48 ◼   ► So it seems like if OS is going to change in some significant way, maybe it's not just, I

00:36:54 ◼   ► mean, that's what the reports have said.

00:36:55 ◼   ► We've been talking about the glass appearance or anything, but it's not just about, oh, it works

00:36:59 ◼   ► exactly the same, but everything looks different.

00:37:01 ◼   ► Every one of the rumor reports has been like, and also there's some rethinking of how the

00:37:06 ◼   ► UI works, not just how it looks.

00:37:07 ◼   ► And so this fits right in with it.

00:37:10 ◼   ► Is this the year that everyone's hopes and dreams for iPadOS, uh, you know, are fulfilled?

00:37:16 ◼   ► Or is this just the, what, seventh time that, uh, there've been rumors that iPadOS is finally

00:37:22 ◼   ► going to fix all the things that annoy people about it.

00:37:24 ◼   ► And, uh, what we'll get instead will be like whatever the, uh, you know, something equivalent

00:37:28 ◼   ► to stage manager where it's like, good effort.

00:37:31 ◼   ► I see what you're trying to do.

00:37:32 ◼   ► But in the end, the people who are dissatisfied with it continue to be dissatisfied.

00:37:35 ◼   ► What we have seen from iPadOS over the years is seemingly just a profound identity crisis.

00:37:42 ◼   ► iPadOS tries to serve a bunch of different markets, has never really been able to break well out

00:37:50 ◼   ► of its like kind of single tasking, casual user market and has tried a bunch of things to, to, you

00:37:56 ◼   ► know, to try to, try to make it more productive.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And none of them have ever really had, you know, any kind of like follow through, um, you know, much

00:38:03 ◼   ► refinement happening.

00:38:04 ◼   ► It'll get a burst of attention in some, you know, some big update that will rethink multitasking or window

00:38:11 ◼   ► management or file management.

00:38:12 ◼   ► And then it won't be touched for like three years.

00:38:15 ◼   ► And then the next thing will be tried.

00:38:17 ◼   ► Then the next method, oh, well, that was all wrong.

00:38:19 ◼   ► Now we're going to do this.

00:38:20 ◼   ► You know, we had, you know, slide over, then we had split screen, you know, then we, that

00:38:25 ◼   ► now we have, you know, stage manager and we have all these different things that keep getting

00:38:29 ◼   ► tried to make window management good or useful or, or usable on the iPad.

00:38:34 ◼   ► And every single time the same thing happens, it confuses the crap out of casual users and

00:38:40 ◼   ► they ask to turn it off.

00:38:41 ◼   ► If, you know, if you have anybody in your life where like you're their tech person, um,

00:38:44 ◼   ► and they have like an iPad as their main computer, usually you will hear like, I got it into

00:38:48 ◼   ► this weird, how do I, how do I turn this off?

00:38:50 ◼   ► My, I personally, like I've run into problems where like I will accidentally have dragged a

00:38:55 ◼   ► Safari tab on the iPad in the wrong way.

00:38:57 ◼   ► And now I have two Safari windows and I have no idea how to close.

00:39:00 ◼   ► Like there's like all these different, you know, accidental multitasking problems.

00:39:04 ◼   ► Then the power users are super into it for about 30 seconds.

00:39:09 ◼   ► Then they hit all the, all the friction with it that, that prevents it from being power

00:39:13 ◼   ► useful the way they want.

00:39:15 ◼   ► They're not super satisfied with it, but they're like, well, at least it's better than what we

00:39:18 ◼   ► had before, but it's a little bit different, a little bit better in some ways, a little

00:39:20 ◼   ► bit worse in other ways.

00:39:21 ◼   ► And then, you know, a few years later, they're like, well, I'm going back to the Mac.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Like we, we've seen this pattern over and over again and we have no reason to believe this

00:39:30 ◼   ► will be any different.

00:39:30 ◼   ► Um, we'll see, maybe it will, but it seems like Apple has always wanted the iPad software

00:39:39 ◼   ► wise to be as capable as it is hardware wise.

00:39:43 ◼   ► And it just seems like they're not, I don't know if they're not willing to make the kinds

00:39:49 ◼   ► of changes and open up things in the kind of ways that that would actually be necessary

00:39:53 ◼   ► to achieve that.

00:39:54 ◼   ► Or if they're not able to in the sense that like, you know, maybe they've tried a lot of

00:39:59 ◼   ► more advanced features and it has just been too confusing for casual users on the iPad because

00:40:04 ◼   ► iPads aren't laptops.

00:40:07 ◼   ► They don't work the way PCs and Macs do.

00:40:09 ◼   ► They don't have the same input mechanisms.

00:40:12 ◼   ► They don't have the same input precision.

00:40:13 ◼   ► People use them differently and expect them to work differently.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Maybe there just isn't a good way, you know, in the same way that like, as we talked about

00:40:23 ◼   ► before, like there really is no amazing text input mechanism on a tablet.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Like you can kind of hack it with keyboards or on screen things or handwriting recognition

00:40:31 ◼   ► or all these different ways to do it.

00:40:32 ◼   ► But like tablets, fundamentally, they don't have amazing text input and text manipulation

00:40:36 ◼   ► capabilities compared to laptops.

00:40:38 ◼   ► It just it's kind of a hindrance of the form factor.

00:40:41 ◼   ► And they're a lot better at other things.

00:40:43 ◼   ► You know, they're much better at like pen input and touch input and things like that.

00:40:47 ◼   ► But like text inputs kind of rough on tablets and it always has been.

00:40:50 ◼   ► Maybe multitasking is the same way.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Like maybe productivity multitasking are just better in the PC form factor and maybe trying

00:40:58 ◼   ► to make a tablet more into a laptop or, you know, a Mac.

00:41:02 ◼   ► Maybe that's just really can't be done very well.

00:41:05 ◼   ► So far, all the evidence we've seen so far is that not only has Apple not ever done it,

00:41:09 ◼   ► no one else has either.

00:41:11 ◼   ► That just might be the reality of tablets.

00:41:12 ◼   ► But if Apple's taking another crack at it.

00:41:15 ◼   ► All right, cool.

00:41:16 ◼   ► Let's see what happens.

00:41:17 ◼   ► Let's see if it's good.

00:41:18 ◼   ► If it doesn't confuse casual users.

00:41:21 ◼   ► If it gives power users what they need.

00:41:23 ◼   ► And if they actually like have any kind of follow through to refine it over time.

00:41:28 ◼   ► So far, all three of those have failed every single time they've tried to do this on the

00:41:32 ◼   ► iPad.

00:41:33 ◼   ► But just because they've never done it before doesn't mean they can't do it.

00:41:36 ◼   ► I just think it's much more likely they won't do it.

00:41:38 ◼   ► It's so tough, right?

00:41:40 ◼   ► Because as we've said so many times over the years, and it's probably never been more true

00:41:45 ◼   ► than now.

00:41:45 ◼   ► The iPad hardware is phenomenal.

00:41:49 ◼   ► I mean, it's basically the same guts as a MacBook Air, if you just look at it broadly.

00:41:53 ◼   ► And it's obviously capable of so much more than the software allows for.

00:41:58 ◼   ► And on the one side, I would love to have better control over windowing and window management

00:42:04 ◼   ► and so on while using the iPad.

00:42:07 ◼   ► And I would love to be able to do something that looks more like proper multitasking.

00:42:12 ◼   ► You know, I would love to be able to run a Daemon for some reason.

00:42:15 ◼   ► I don't even know specifically why or what in particular I would like.

00:42:19 ◼   ► How about a clipboard manager?

00:42:20 ◼   ► Actually, that's a great example.

00:42:22 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:42:22 ◼   ► That's a great example, a clipboard manager.

00:42:24 ◼   ► So it's got to be running always to sniff out what you put on your clipboard.

00:42:27 ◼   ► But, you know, I would like to be able to opt into that.

00:42:30 ◼   ► And iOS doesn't really have, or excuse me, iPadOS doesn't really have an affordance for

00:42:34 ◼   ► that right now, but it could.

00:42:34 ◼   ► Maybe it will in June.

00:42:36 ◼   ► And another example, I think it was on Upgrade that I heard either Jason or Mike talking about

00:42:41 ◼   ► how, you know, when you run Final Cut Pro or whatever it's called on

00:42:45 ◼   ► an iPad and do an export, you have to leave it foregrounded because eventually it'll get

00:42:49 ◼   ► killed as you're doing the export if you don't, which is kind of bananas, right?

00:42:52 ◼   ► And so I would love for these things to be improved.

00:42:56 ◼   ► I would love to have terminal access on my iPad, not even necessarily to mess with the iPad's

00:43:02 ◼   ► like file system or whatever, but just to have that tool set available to me.

00:43:06 ◼   ► And yes, I'm aware of ISH and I can remote into other machines, but it'd still be nice if

00:43:10 ◼   ► there was a first party solution for all that.

00:43:12 ◼   ► And again, like window management would be great, particularly when I'm using the iPad

00:43:15 ◼   ► with a mouse and keyboard, which is how I tend to typically use it.

00:43:18 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:43:20 ◼   ► I don't really see a lot of the things that I want, which is really just make it more like

00:43:24 ◼   ► the Mac.

00:43:25 ◼   ► I don't see, I don't see a lot of those things that I want really happening.

00:43:28 ◼   ► And I think that's probably for the best, even if selfishly it's a bummer, because then

00:43:35 ◼   ► it's not really an iPad anymore.

00:43:36 ◼   ► It's just a tablet version of Mac OS, which again, selfishly sounds amazing.

00:43:40 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, like it sounds like what you want, which I think I admit I also want

00:43:45 ◼   ► is make the Mac a little bit more hardware like the iPad.

00:43:50 ◼   ► So leave it as Mac OS, but maybe add a pen input mechanism, maybe add cellular, you know,

00:43:57 ◼   ► like maybe make like a smaller than 13 inch model, you know, like they're what I think

00:44:02 ◼   ► what a lot of power users are asking for really is it might be easier to make the Mac closer

00:44:09 ◼   ► to what they want iPad wise than to make the iPad more like the Mac.

00:44:14 ◼   ► Yeah, we agree.

00:44:15 ◼   ► And we're, we're saying the same thing here.

00:44:16 ◼   ► But I mean, in principle, like you said a moment ago, heck yeah, let's see what they have to

00:44:21 ◼   ► offer.

00:44:21 ◼   ► I mean, it can't hurt, but how many times we've been burned by this?

00:44:25 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not expecting much, but Hey, if we could finally, finally have iPad OS really

00:44:33 ◼   ► flexing its muscles and really operating on the hardware that it's, it's been blessed with,

00:44:39 ◼   ► like that would be incredible, but I don't know.

00:44:42 ◼   ► I don't, I don't expect it to happen.

00:44:43 ◼   ► And in the flip side of this is to argue with myself and argue against what I want.

00:44:48 ◼   ► One of the things that is great about iPad OS is its simplicity.

00:44:52 ◼   ► And while that stinks for power user or someone who has power user dreams, because I'm not

00:44:58 ◼   ► even sure that I am an iPad power user.

00:45:00 ◼   ► I just have dreams of being able to accomplish some things on it that I can't currently it,

00:45:04 ◼   ► that would make it that much worse for, for people who are not super duper tech savvy.

00:45:09 ◼   ► So is that, is that juice worth the squeeze?

00:45:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:12 ◼   ► I think that's part of what we've seen Apple struggle with, like that.

00:45:15 ◼   ► They haven't been willing to sacrifice the simplicity of iPad OS or the iPad product in

00:45:21 ◼   ► service of power user needs.

00:45:24 ◼   ► Which is why that I think they keep coming up with solutions for doing more than one thing

00:45:28 ◼   ► at the same time on the iPad that are actually way more complicated than they are on the Mac.

00:45:33 ◼   ► Like, you know, even Marco getting into a situation where it's like, how do I get out of this situation?

00:45:36 ◼   ► I didn't mean to do this.

00:45:37 ◼   ► It's not immediately obvious.

00:45:38 ◼   ► I didn't mean to split Safari into two things.

00:45:40 ◼   ► Now I have two of them.

00:45:41 ◼   ► How do I get one?

00:45:42 ◼   ► That's why people ask to have those, to have those features turned off.

00:45:44 ◼   ► Why is that a problem?

00:45:45 ◼   ► It's a problem because Apple has thus far been unwilling to make the basic interface, uh, less

00:45:57 ◼   ► simple.

00:45:57 ◼   ► Um, part of like, even as something as simple as like, Oh, I, I made this situation.

00:46:03 ◼   ► How do I undo it?

00:46:04 ◼   ► There's not closed boxes on the top of every window.

00:46:08 ◼   ► There's no like window ornamentation like that.

00:46:11 ◼   ► Like there is on the Mac.

00:46:12 ◼   ► That is a simplification that people who just do one thing at a time appreciate because it

00:46:17 ◼   ► doesn't look like a computer with like a window, uh, zoomed to full screen.

00:46:22 ◼   ► There's no window borders.

00:46:24 ◼   ► There's no window controls.

00:46:25 ◼   ► There's no resizing handles that they like.

00:46:27 ◼   ► It just, it is very simplified.

00:46:29 ◼   ► That's one of the reasons people like phones because it makes more sense there.

00:46:31 ◼   ► It's a very small screen, but in tablets, it's a simplified interface.

00:46:35 ◼   ► But as soon as you want to do anything like more, you know, have more than one thing running

00:46:40 ◼   ► at the same time or whatever, Apple's like, can we come up with a way to let people do

00:46:44 ◼   ► that, but without dirtying up the interface with stuff that people who want a simple interface

00:46:49 ◼   ► don't care about.

00:46:50 ◼   ► And they keep trying, but they always refuse.

00:46:54 ◼   ► They won't do the obvious thing so far, which is fricking window controls on it.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Cause then when Marco makes two of those things, even if he doesn't know how he did

00:47:01 ◼   ► it, he can just hit the little red, you know, close box on the one that he wants to close

00:47:05 ◼   ► and it will go away.

00:47:06 ◼   ► Or just like any kind of like standard language like we have on the Mac or any other windowing

00:47:12 ◼   ► interface where people know how to close windows.

00:47:15 ◼   ► They know how to move them.

00:47:16 ◼   ► They know how to resize them.

00:47:17 ◼   ► They know what it means to close a window versus minimizing a window versus hiding a window.

00:47:21 ◼   ► Like that vocabulary we have on the Mac.

00:47:24 ◼   ► It's consistent across the whole thing.

00:47:25 ◼   ► Closing window is not the same as hiding one.

00:47:27 ◼   ► Hiding one is not the same as minimizing it.

00:47:29 ◼   ► Resizing a window you can do from all the edges and like, and scrolling.

00:47:33 ◼   ► Like once you learn that every, everything on the Mac opens up to you.

00:47:37 ◼   ► Now it's like, okay, well, there's fancier things.

00:47:39 ◼   ► You can have all these keyboard commands to rearrange windows for you.

00:47:41 ◼   ► So you don't have to do them manually.

00:47:42 ◼   ► And you can have keyboard commands to close all the windows with command option W or just

00:47:46 ◼   ► even learning command.

00:47:47 ◼   ► But the whole point is that's just like advanced ways to speak in the vocabulary that you've

00:47:52 ◼   ► already learned.

00:47:53 ◼   ► And it is a more complicated vocabulary than a simple non-multitasking iPad.

00:47:57 ◼   ► And thus far, Apple has not been willing to bring that set of sort of complimentary, comprehensive

00:48:05 ◼   ► operations to the iPad, because the only way you can bring them in a way that works as well

00:48:10 ◼   ► as the Mac is to dedicate interface to them.

00:48:13 ◼   ► And Apple's, I bet anytime anyone brings it up, like you really want window controls on

00:48:18 ◼   ► the top of every single rectangle on your iPad.

00:48:20 ◼   ► It's not an iPad anymore.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Now, why don't we just do macOS, which is the point you two are getting at, right?

00:48:23 ◼   ► And so they've just been holding the line, but still they've been like, but power users

00:48:27 ◼   ► want to do stuff.

00:48:28 ◼   ► And it's like, okay, now it's just, it's like mystery meet gesture navigation.

00:48:31 ◼   ► There's nothing visible on the screen telling me this.

00:48:33 ◼   ► Maybe there's a three dot menu, but you're not sure what's going to be under there until

00:48:36 ◼   ► you look at it.

00:48:37 ◼   ► There's the little, there's the doc, there's the little floating thumbnails, there's the split,

00:48:40 ◼   ► there's slide over.

00:48:41 ◼   ► And it's just, it's a fairly extensive vocabulary, but it's not comprehensive and

00:48:45 ◼   ► it is not obvious and learning it is difficult.

00:48:48 ◼   ► And even once you learn it, it doesn't give you essentially, it's not composable.

00:48:52 ◼   ► It doesn't say now that I've learned this basic vocabulary, the iPad, I can do anything.

00:48:55 ◼   ► Nope.

00:48:55 ◼   ► You can't.

00:48:56 ◼   ► There's limits on everything.

00:48:57 ◼   ► How many things, how many apps can you have open?

00:48:59 ◼   ► How many things can you do at once?

00:49:00 ◼   ► Which apps can run in the background?

00:49:03 ◼   ► Yeah, that's another point.

00:49:05 ◼   ► I know that drags out much longer, but another point that I think usually gets lost in this

00:49:09 ◼   ► although YouTube both touched on it as well is it's not just about how can I arrange things

00:49:14 ◼   ► on screen to be doing stuff.

00:49:15 ◼   ► It's like setting all that aside.

00:49:17 ◼   ► Pretend it's still, there's no, no quote unquote multitasking.

00:49:19 ◼   ► It's just one thing on the screen at the same time.

00:49:20 ◼   ► What about the capabilities?

00:49:22 ◼   ► What about, uh, you know, uh, audio routing or like you said, clipboard managers or file

00:49:27 ◼   ► management, simple capabilities, what kind of apps are even possible to have?

00:49:33 ◼   ► What kind of apps can be on the iPad to enhance the experience of the iPad, setting aside the

00:49:38 ◼   ► interface, setting aside multiple, multiple windows or rearranging things or doing power

00:49:43 ◼   ► user stuff?

00:49:44 ◼   ► Because I would argue that like, even though a clipboard manager seems like a power usery

00:49:48 ◼   ► feature, once it is standard across every platform, which I hope it will be sometime in

00:49:52 ◼   ► my lifetime, it will no longer be viewed as a power user feature.

00:49:54 ◼   ► I mean, I guess it used to be that copy and paste was a power user feature on the phone

00:49:57 ◼   ► because it didn't exist.

00:49:58 ◼   ► Oh, people don't need copy and paste.

00:49:59 ◼   ► That's a, that's an advanced feature.

00:50:01 ◼   ► No one's going to want to copy and paste on their phone.

00:50:02 ◼   ► They totally will.

00:50:03 ◼   ► They did.

00:50:03 ◼   ► They do, uh, clipboard managers are similar, but like we'll never get to that point.

00:50:07 ◼   ► If iPad OS is constrained by not being allowed to do things like do a final cut export in the

00:50:14 ◼   ► background because it doesn't have enough RAM or whatever the limitation is, or let even the

00:50:19 ◼   ► most trivial, completely sandbox, completely constrained, cannot connect to the network,

00:50:23 ◼   ► cannot talk to the file system, cannot export.

00:50:24 ◼   ► Like you can make a clipboard manager that is totally fenced in and absolutely secure because

00:50:30 ◼   ► it only has to do a very simple job.

00:50:32 ◼   ► You could, you could end to end encrypt the contents of the clipboard.

00:50:36 ◼   ► So the app can't even see it.

00:50:37 ◼   ► You could build it into the OS, but that's not what we're really asking for.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Anyway, um, yeah, I, you know, I'm the one with the Mac pro shirt, so hope springs eternal.

00:50:45 ◼   ► Uh, I, I'm not dying for advancements in iPadOS because I'm not an iPadOS power user, but a

00:50:52 ◼   ► lot of other people are.

00:50:52 ◼   ► And I, I see Apple struggle.

00:50:54 ◼   ► They can't bring themselves to sacrifice simplicity.

00:50:57 ◼   ► And to Casey's point, maybe they're right not to sacrifice that simplicity, but it's like,

00:51:03 ◼   ► it's just, it's, it's painting itself into a narrower, narrower corner as a, you know,

00:51:08 ◼   ► a $1,500 device for artists.

00:51:11 ◼   ► I'm sure it's amazing because it's extremely powerful, has a great screen, has great pen input.

00:51:15 ◼   ► Uh, but that's not a huge market, uh, as a thing that is as powerful as a Mac in hardware,

00:51:20 ◼   ► but is one 18th is powerful in software.

00:51:22 ◼   ► It is unsatisfying.

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00:53:16 ◼   ► Earlier this week, a couple of days ago, I wrote a post called foot guns and what kind of started

00:53:29 ◼   ► this post was some news about Synology, which we'll talk about in a minute.

00:53:32 ◼   ► But it occurred to me that a lot of the things that I really enjoy, like the technology things

00:53:38 ◼   ► that I really enjoy in my life, um, I have been a vocal advocate for evangelist of, and

00:53:45 ◼   ► then sometimes it's taken a turn.

00:53:48 ◼   ► Um, the, the examples I went into in, in this post, uh, are Eero, which is a former sponsor.

00:53:55 ◼   ► As far as I know, they're not a future sponsor.

00:53:57 ◼   ► I am still, as we sit right now, I am talking to you via an Eero, you know, home network.

00:54:03 ◼   ► It, I still use it.

00:54:04 ◼   ► I still pretty much like it actually quite a bit, but over the years, um, it's been getting,

00:54:10 ◼   ► uh, junkified or, uh, I will try not to use this word.

00:54:13 ◼   ► So Marco doesn't have to bleep it every three seconds, but it's been in shitified, uh, which

00:54:17 ◼   ► if you're not familiar, there's a link we'll put in the, in the show notes where, uh, this

00:54:22 ◼   ► is a term coined by Corey Doctorow, uh, which is basically everything gets crappier over

00:54:26 ◼   ► time, usually for reasons that are not good for users.

00:54:28 ◼   ► And that's kind of what it boils down to.

00:54:30 ◼   ► So Eero, they've decided that they would really like this thing.

00:54:33 ◼   ► Let me know if you two have heard of this before services revenue, and they really want that.

00:54:39 ◼   ► And so they've been pushing their Eero plus, which is a subscription service that I do think

00:54:43 ◼   ► is good, but it's, it, it solves problems that I don't personally have.

00:54:49 ◼   ► It has like ad blocking and one password and things that I take care of on my own.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Right.

00:54:54 ◼   ► And actually I didn't talk about one password in my blog post, former sponsor.

00:54:57 ◼   ► Uh, I could not have been a bigger one password fan.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Uh, and then it seemed like they decided they wanted to concentrate more on enterprise users

00:55:03 ◼   ► and less on home users like myself.

00:55:06 ◼   ► And I'm still running one password seven because the last time I tried one password eight, which

00:55:11 ◼   ► admittedly was like a year ago.

00:55:12 ◼   ► Now it was a mess.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Uh, it went to be an electron app, which it doesn't immediately disqualify it as good, but

00:55:17 ◼   ► close.

00:55:18 ◼   ► Uh, and last I'd used it, it was a disaster.

00:55:21 ◼   ► I bet it's better now, but it was a mess.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Also, I'm seeing one password on, I forget who it is, but on somebody's F1 car.

00:55:28 ◼   ► And I feel like if the software I'm using is also featured on a formula one race car, then

00:55:32 ◼   ► maybe our, our, uh, our needs and wants are not aligned as they once were.

00:55:37 ◼   ► Uh, but nevertheless, going back to my blog post, uh, Sonos is another great example.

00:55:41 ◼   ► We've talked about that on and off over the last couple of years.

00:55:44 ◼   ► I could not be a bigger fan of Sonos in April of 2024.

00:55:48 ◼   ► And in the same way as with Eero, where I'll say, well, if somebody will ask me, oh, what

00:55:52 ◼   ► Wi-Fi router should I get?

00:55:53 ◼   ► Uh, Eero, but you need to know that they're going to try to upset you a lot.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Well, what speakers should I get?

00:56:01 ◼   ► Sonos, but you need to be aware that their app has been a little up and down over the

00:56:08 ◼   ► that's probably putting it, putting it mildly, but a little up and down over the last year.

00:56:12 ◼   ► And generally speaking, my Sonos stuff does work great.

00:56:14 ◼   ► And I cannot tell, I know I've said it six times on the show.

00:56:17 ◼   ► I said it in my blog post.

00:56:18 ◼   ► I'll say it again, taking a portable speaker in your hand and walking from one corner of

00:56:22 ◼   ► my house to the other, all the way outside where that portable speaker is perfectly in

00:56:27 ◼   ► sync with the three other speakers that it comes in contact with during that, you know,

00:56:31 ◼   ► 30 second journey.

00:56:32 ◼   ► It's incredible.

00:56:33 ◼   ► I don't know how they do it.

00:56:34 ◼   ► I really don't get it.

00:56:34 ◼   ► But the thing is, Eero, Sonos, they used to be the recommendation.

00:56:40 ◼   ► What Wi-Fi router should I get?

00:56:42 ◼   ► Eero.

00:56:42 ◼   ► Next question.

00:56:43 ◼   ► What speakers should I get?

00:56:44 ◼   ► Unless you're John.

00:56:45 ◼   ► Sonos.

00:56:46 ◼   ► Next question.

00:56:47 ◼   ► And it just, it's not that case.

00:56:50 ◼   ► It's not the case anymore.

00:56:51 ◼   ► It's, well, Eero, but it was Sonos.

00:56:55 ◼   ► And then what really set me off was my beloved Synology.

00:57:00 ◼   ► And if you recall, in 2013, Synology was kind enough to send each of us a DS1813+, which

00:57:07 ◼   ► is basically an eight-bay network-attached storage.

00:57:10 ◼   ► They filled mine.

00:57:12 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure they filled your guys' as well with like three terabyte hard drives.

00:57:15 ◼   ► Somehow, I think John's are all still working.

00:57:17 ◼   ► Is that still true, John?

00:57:18 ◼   ► Yep.

00:57:19 ◼   ► They're spinning right now.

00:57:20 ◼   ► 12 years on, I still, I cannot believe that you have one.

00:57:23 ◼   ► 12-year-old hard drives have never been turned off on all the time, and a UPS in my basement

00:57:27 ◼   ► is still going strong.

00:57:27 ◼   ► I cannot believe.

00:57:28 ◼   ► I mean, I do believe you, but I cannot believe that.

00:57:30 ◼   ► But anyway, if you're the kind of person that needs or wants network-attached storage in

00:57:36 ◼   ► your life, which admittedly is a very small subset of people, it used to be, in my personal

00:57:41 ◼   ► opinion, what network-attached storage should I get?

00:57:44 ◼   ► Synology, next question.

00:57:45 ◼   ► Well, this week, they decided to make a change.

00:57:49 ◼   ► And we had been hearing rumblings about this for like a year or two, but they decided to

00:57:52 ◼   ► make a change.

00:57:53 ◼   ► So I'm going to read from Ars Technica.

00:57:54 ◼   ► Actually, we discussed it on the show probably more than a year ago, and it wasn't just that

00:57:59 ◼   ► they were thinking of doing it.

00:58:00 ◼   ► They had done it, but it's cut there, as you've described what they did in a second, this has

00:58:05 ◼   ► been a program that they've been rolling out in pieces.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Like, I think they did it in a limited capacity, then they're doing more of it.

00:58:11 ◼   ► So it's not actually a news story, but it's coming up again because they are expanding the

00:58:17 ◼   ► scope of this decision.

00:58:18 ◼   ► And at the time we discussed it, we discussed it as a bad decision that we didn't like.

00:58:22 ◼   ► But it was like, well, but it only affects X, Y, and Z, and maybe it won't be that bad,

00:58:27 ◼   ► or maybe they'll change their mind.

00:58:28 ◼   ► But here we are, I think, at least over a year later, and they are continuing to move in that

00:58:32 ◼   ► direction.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:33 ◼   ► So reading from Ars Technica, Synology has confirmed and slightly clarified a policy that

00:58:37 ◼   ► appeared on its German website earlier this week.

00:58:39 ◼   ► Its plus-tier devices, starting with the 2025 series, will require Synology-branded hard

00:58:47 ◼   ► drives for full compatibility, at least at first.

00:58:49 ◼   ► Quote, Synology-branded drives will be needed for use.

00:58:52 ◼   ► In the newly announced Plus series, with plans to update the product compatibility list as

00:58:56 ◼   ► additional drives can be thoroughly vetted in Synology systems.

00:58:59 ◼   ► A Synology representative told Ars by email, again, quoting, extensive internal testing has

00:59:04 ◼   ► shown that drives that follow a rigorous validation process when paired with Synology systems are

00:59:08 ◼   ► less at risk of drive failure and ongoing compatibility issues.

00:59:11 ◼   ► Quote, I have some thoughts on this.

00:59:13 ◼   ► Let me keep plowing through, though.

00:59:14 ◼   ► Without a Synology-branded or approved drive in a device that requires it, NAS devices could fail

00:59:19 ◼   ► to create storage pools and lose volume-wide deduplication and lifespan analysis, Synology's

00:59:25 ◼   ► German press release stated.

00:59:26 ◼   ► Similar drive restrictions are already in place for the XS Plus and rack-mounted Synology models,

00:59:30 ◼   ► though workarounds exist.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Synology also says it will later add a, quote, carefully curated drive compatibility framework

00:59:35 ◼   ► for third-party drives that users can submit drives for testing and documentation.

00:59:41 ◼   ► Uh, drives that meet Synology stringent standards may be validated for use, offering flexibility

00:59:45 ◼   ► while maintaining system integrity, they said.

00:59:46 ◼   ► Synology Plus models purchased prior to the 2025 series will continue to support third-party

00:59:51 ◼   ► drives at their current level.

00:59:52 ◼   ► Devices in the J and value series are also not affected.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Third-party drives using systems prior to the 2025 models can be migrated into newer models

00:59:59 ◼   ► without restrictions.

01:00:00 ◼   ► All right, that really pisses me off.

01:00:02 ◼   ► I'll come back to that.

01:00:03 ◼   ► Um, what they're saying is that, hey, Synology drives, branded Synology drives work best.

01:00:11 ◼   ► Okay, fair.

01:00:13 ◼   ► But everything else could be crap and we're going to, and we're going to neuter it because

01:00:17 ◼   ► of it.

01:00:17 ◼   ► All right, let's pump the brakes here.

01:00:20 ◼   ► Like that's, I don't get that at all.

01:00:22 ◼   ► And then the best part of all is, let me read that last sentence again.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Third-party drives using systems prior to the 2025 models can be migrated into newer models

01:00:29 ◼   ► without restrictions.

01:00:29 ◼   ► So which one is it then?

01:00:31 ◼   ► Is it that they don't work or that they do work?

01:00:34 ◼   ► This smells to me, and maybe I'm misunderstanding.

01:00:37 ◼   ► It could be I'm misunderstanding.

01:00:38 ◼   ► But this smells to me like, we would like more revenue, please.

01:00:43 ◼   ► And then they pull the lever.

01:00:45 ◼   ► And that is their right.

01:00:46 ◼   ► They are a business.

01:00:47 ◼   ► They are a group of people that are together to make money.

01:00:50 ◼   ► I get that.

01:00:52 ◼   ► But here it is.

01:00:54 ◼   ► They're taking something that I would not, as you three or you two, excuse me, I'm the

01:00:58 ◼   ► third, as you two well know, as all three of us know, I would not and do not shut up

01:01:03 ◼   ► about how much I love my Synology because it's true.

01:01:06 ◼   ► And yet now, hand on heart, I have already started thinking about, all right, when my

01:01:12 ◼   ► year-old Synology, maybe it's two years old, one or two-year-old Synology eventually dies,

01:01:16 ◼   ► hopefully in 10-plus years.

01:01:17 ◼   ► What am I going to do to replace it?

01:01:19 ◼   ► And it occurred to me that I think the only thing that would really stink for me is trying

01:01:24 ◼   ► to replace Synology Drive, which we've talked about over the last couple of months, or excuse

01:01:28 ◼   ► me, a couple of weeks as a replacement sort of kind of for Dropbox.

01:01:31 ◼   ► But everything else, I can just get, let's say, I don't know, Marco, Ubiquity, what is it,

01:01:37 ◼   ► UNAP?

01:01:38 ◼   ► I forget the name of their network-attached storage.

01:01:39 ◼   ► But I can get one of those, and that would be just fine.

01:01:42 ◼   ► I could move my Docker containers to some other device somewhere.

01:01:46 ◼   ► That would be just fine.

01:01:48 ◼   ► The only thing I'd miss is Synology Drive, and I'm sure I could find a workaround.

01:01:51 ◼   ► So sitting here today, me, the most enthusiastic Synology person that I know, I'm telling you

01:01:59 ◼   ► that the one I bought a year or two ago is likely to be my last.

01:02:02 ◼   ► And that just feels crappy.

01:02:05 ◼   ► And I feel like their search for more revenue, and I don't know if I really made this point

01:02:10 ◼   ► as eloquently as I should have on the blog post, but that's neither here nor there, this

01:02:14 ◼   ► company that had other devout fans, not unlike myself, has shot themselves in the foot because

01:02:21 ◼   ► they just want to eke out a little bit more revenue.

01:02:23 ◼   ► And what are these bespoke Synology drives from everything that I've been able to dig

01:02:27 ◼   ► up?

01:02:27 ◼   ► And I haven't looked too hard.

01:02:28 ◼   ► They're like Western Digital or whatever drives that have been relabeled and may have custom

01:02:34 ◼   ► firmware that Synology writes, but they're basically the same as everything else.

01:02:38 ◼   ► So I just, I don't get it.

01:02:40 ◼   ► And it's so frustrating because all of these things are companies I loved so much.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Dropbox is another great example.

01:02:45 ◼   ► I gave up on Dropbox forever ago, but they used to be the darling of nerds like us.

01:02:51 ◼   ► And then they just got crappier and crappier and crappier.

01:02:53 ◼   ► And don't make me bring up the E word.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I'll do it.

01:02:56 ◼   ► Evernote.

01:02:57 ◼   ► Everyone loved Evernote for a solid 10 minutes.

01:02:59 ◼   ► And then it got awful.

01:03:01 ◼   ► It got so bad.

01:03:03 ◼   ► And it's just foot guns upon foot guns upon foot guns.

01:03:06 ◼   ► It's in shitification on shitification on shitification.

01:03:09 ◼   ► It's so bad and it doesn't have to be this way.

01:03:13 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be this way.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And it makes me so mad.

01:03:16 ◼   ► I'm not sure if you're applying Cory Darkestorm accurately here, but it's clear that you're

01:03:21 ◼   ► upset about what they did.

01:03:22 ◼   ► But like it reads to me as someone who's spent a lot of my career dealing with enterprise stuff

01:03:28 ◼   ► is that they've essentially decided that the Casey market, home nerds who want to do cool

01:03:34 ◼   ► things with Synologies, is not where they want to concentrate.

01:03:37 ◼   ► Instead, they want to concentrate on the enterprise market.

01:03:39 ◼   ► And I can tell you, in the enterprise market, what they're doing is so incredibly mild.

01:03:43 ◼   ► Like anyone who's in the enterprise market would say they're doing it wrong.

01:03:47 ◼   ► It's like, why are you letting people use any drives?

01:03:49 ◼   ► Why is this like a multi-year rollout strategy?

01:03:51 ◼   ► Why are you like allowing existing products to keep using their drive?

01:03:55 ◼   ► Like, why are you doing that?

01:03:56 ◼   ► Like, just go.

01:03:57 ◼   ► If you want to be in the enterprise market, you just have to make them buy the stuff from

01:04:00 ◼   ► you.

01:04:01 ◼   ► And in the enterprise world, it's exactly like you said.

01:04:03 ◼   ► Oh, if you buy our storage solution, you have to buy the storage from us.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Obviously, it's not just like a plug and play where you find the cheapest price for

01:04:09 ◼   ► your, you know, solid state storage or your spinning disks and you plug them into our things.

01:04:13 ◼   ► Companies that do that do exist that try to have a competitive advantage.

01:04:16 ◼   ► But the enterprise company is like, this is small potatoes for an enterprise.

01:04:20 ◼   ► And if you buy from us, we guarantee it.

01:04:21 ◼   ► And it's part of our $50,000 year support contract and yada, yada.

01:04:25 ◼   ► And yeah, Synology does not manufacture hard drives.

01:04:28 ◼   ► This is some other company that manufactures hard drives that they buy, put a big sticker

01:04:32 ◼   ► on.

01:04:32 ◼   ► And like you said, maybe do some firmware tweaking or whatever, or have a validation procedure.

01:04:36 ◼   ► And Synology has been trying to walk that line of like, okay, but we'll, we'll also certify

01:04:41 ◼   ► third-party drives and we'll have a compatibility list.

01:04:43 ◼   ► I think last time we talked about this, we pulled up the compatibility list web page.

01:04:46 ◼   ► Depending on which Synology sort of, you know, machine that you're talking about, its compatibility

01:04:53 ◼   ► list may contain lots of third-party drives or no third-party drives or some, um, having

01:04:59 ◼   ► a validation procedure and sort of drives that are, you know, uh, certified to work or whatever,

01:05:05 ◼   ► all of that is good.

01:05:06 ◼   ► The problem comes down when you say, okay, but also the other drives we're going to like

01:05:11 ◼   ► not let you use.

01:05:12 ◼   ► And how are we going to not let you use them?

01:05:14 ◼   ► We're going to remove features.

01:05:15 ◼   ► feature X in our product senses that you don't have a certified drive.

01:05:19 ◼   ► We're not going to enable that feature.

01:05:21 ◼   ► And it's like, if you're going to, if you're going to like, that's an uncomfortable middle

01:05:24 ◼   ► ground, either you go full enterprise and there's no such thing as third-party storage, or you

01:05:28 ◼   ► say, well, here are our certified drives.

01:05:30 ◼   ► But then if you're a hobbyist, you know, go nuts, do whatever you want.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Uh, but you're on your own.

01:05:35 ◼   ► That's what, you know, hobbyists would probably say, fine, let me do that.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Cause it's been the case in the past and I've been fine with it.

01:05:41 ◼   ► Like, so just let me, you know, enable all the features, right?

01:05:44 ◼   ► If they're, if it's, if they're able to work at all, which they probably are like the duplication

01:05:49 ◼   ► doesn't depend on the hard drive mechanism.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Just let me use them.

01:05:51 ◼   ► Don't try to coerce me into buying your drives.

01:05:54 ◼   ► And of course, you know, on the revenue front, why do enterprise companies act like that?

01:05:59 ◼   ► You can make a lot more money from enterprises than from individuals because enterprises are

01:06:03 ◼   ► less sensitive to the massive markup that they put on their quote, Synology branded drives.

01:06:08 ◼   ► If you peel off that sticker and see what drive it is and go buy that drive from another retailer,

01:06:13 ◼   ► it's way cheaper.

01:06:15 ◼   ► And of course, that's a place to get higher margins.

01:06:18 ◼   ► We see that in all our businesses.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Why does Apple charge so much for the SSDs?

01:06:21 ◼   ► Because, you know, they're soldered into the computer and you have no choice to buy it

01:06:25 ◼   ► from them.

01:06:25 ◼   ► So they can put huge markups on them.

01:06:27 ◼   ► And so Synology is trying to make it.

01:06:28 ◼   ► So you have no choice or little choice than to buy Synology branded stuff from them.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And your other your other choices are actually it's kind of similar in that, like, your needs

01:06:40 ◼   ► and tastes as a hobbyist have diverged from the products for different reasons.

01:06:45 ◼   ► So Eero is an interesting case where you noted that the services they're offering with Eero

01:06:49 ◼   ► Plus, you do yourself with other, you know, things that other things that you do as a hobby.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Most people, even home users, which I feel like are Eero's target market, aren't going to

01:07:01 ◼   ► run a pie hole.

01:07:02 ◼   ► No, no, definitely.

01:07:03 ◼   ► Definitely.

01:07:04 ◼   ► And and if and the reason we recommend Eero is like recommend Eero and, you know, the

01:07:09 ◼   ► come ons are annoying, but like you can just ignore them.

01:07:11 ◼   ► I can tell you as a very happy Eero customer, I had forgotten this program exists until you

01:07:16 ◼   ► complained about it because I'd never have to see it.

01:07:18 ◼   ► Why would I ever see it?

01:07:19 ◼   ► I'd see it when I launched the Eero app.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Do I ever launch the Eero app?

01:07:21 ◼   ► No.

01:07:21 ◼   ► Casey's launching the Eero app because he wants to see the Ubiquity app that shows him all

01:07:24 ◼   ► the diagrams and stuff.

01:07:25 ◼   ► But I'm not doing that.

01:07:27 ◼   ► I don't care about that.

01:07:28 ◼   ► All I care is, does the does the Wi-Fi work and is it fast?

01:07:32 ◼   ► And so the plus program actually, I feel like is a plus, huh?

01:07:36 ◼   ► For me recommending Eero because I'll recommend an Eero.

01:07:39 ◼   ► I would never recommend that you do the plus thing.

01:07:41 ◼   ► But at the sometime they say, I keep getting ads and it's annoying.

01:07:44 ◼   ► Is there some I'm running an ad blocker on my Mac, but it doesn't exist on my iPad.

01:07:48 ◼   ► Is there a thing or whatever?

01:07:49 ◼   ► And it's like, you know, if you like if you're paying for an ad blocker for your Mac and

01:07:53 ◼   ► you're paying for an ad blocker on your phone or iPad and then people in the house have PCs

01:07:57 ◼   ► and you don't know what to do about ad blocking there or whatever, you could just buy an Eero

01:08:00 ◼   ► plus subscription and ad block for your whole house.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Here's how much it costs.

01:08:04 ◼   ► Does that appeal to you?

01:08:04 ◼   ► And if they say yes, it's so easy for them to do.

01:08:07 ◼   ► But it's just like boop.

01:08:08 ◼   ► Now, you know, it's a lot easier than setting up a pie hole and dealing with all those problems.

01:08:12 ◼   ► And if they don't want to deal with it, do you think normal people are launching the

01:08:16 ◼   ► Aero app to look at it like ever?

01:08:17 ◼   ► No, that's fair.

01:08:19 ◼   ► That's fair.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Once Wi-Fi works, it's fine.

01:08:22 ◼   ► And Sonos is a similar situation where if you had if you had just bought your very first

01:08:27 ◼   ► Sonos when they screwed up the app, would you have noticed that they screwed up the app?

01:08:31 ◼   ► Maybe because it was really screwed up.

01:08:33 ◼   ► But like a lot of the time when it's like, oh, they haven't restored the features that

01:08:36 ◼   ► used to exist.

01:08:37 ◼   ► If you don't know what features used to exist, you just think this is what Sonos is.

01:08:41 ◼   ► And maybe you didn't notice that the app had lost 50 percent of the features because

01:08:46 ◼   ► you're just happy that the speakers sound good and they play audio when you play through

01:08:50 ◼   ► them and you're done.

01:08:51 ◼   ► That's the difficulty with running any kind of company and having customers, especially

01:08:56 ◼   ► if you spent a lot of your history trying to satisfy a certain class of customers and

01:09:00 ◼   ► then you decide to move on to a different class of customers because it can make you more

01:09:03 ◼   ► money or for whatever reason.

01:09:06 ◼   ► Like, again, Aero moving more towards these sort of, you know, I don't know if they're

01:09:10 ◼   ► going more towards, but like very concentrated on the non tech nerd audience.

01:09:14 ◼   ► You don't want to deal with this stuff.

01:09:16 ◼   ► We'll do it for you.

01:09:17 ◼   ► I think in that sense, it makes sense for them to come out with a service of like, well, what

01:09:21 ◼   ► if people want to do like whole house ad blocking and security stuff?

01:09:24 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't need to do that through Aero.

01:09:26 ◼   ► There's a million other ways you can do that, but no one is going to figure that out.

01:09:28 ◼   ► It's better to have one thing that does it all.

01:09:30 ◼   ► If Apple made a Wi-Fi router, I would want Apple to have an equivalent of Aero Plus as

01:09:36 ◼   ► part of like their services thing, maybe as part of Apple One or as I call it Plus, because

01:09:41 ◼   ► that's exactly why you want a company to do this.

01:09:43 ◼   ► Like you don't want to say, OK, we'll set up this device and connect it to this and set

01:09:45 ◼   ► up that.

01:09:46 ◼   ► And then when you have a problem with this, then you run your own DNS server.

01:09:48 ◼   ► And it's like, like, just do it all for me and make the parts that I don't need optional.

01:09:55 ◼   ► That's the best we can hope for.

01:09:56 ◼   ► But that's not the same market as people who want to see the traffic flow through their

01:10:01 ◼   ► network and, you know, potentially run fiber in their house one day or whatever.

01:10:05 ◼   ► And it seems like from, you know, Marco, we'll talk about this later, that Ubiquity is actually

01:10:09 ◼   ► moving in the other direction where it used to be, oh, you need to be super tech nerd to

01:10:12 ◼   ► set this up.

01:10:12 ◼   ► I think they see a market opportunity to say, well, you know, we're our tech and our products

01:10:18 ◼   ► are so good now that if we just put the right interface on them, we can start grabbing

01:10:23 ◼   ► customers from Europe because actually it's not that much more complicated to set up our

01:10:27 ◼   ► stuff.

01:10:28 ◼   ► So maybe a little bit more and even just knowing what to buy is more complicated or whatever.

01:10:31 ◼   ► But like I also say is that you you list this as like foot guns as in these companies are

01:10:37 ◼   ► shooting themselves in the foot.

01:10:38 ◼   ► I think they're shooting your foot.

01:10:40 ◼   ► I'm not sure they're shooting themselves in the foot because I look at this and I see

01:10:47 ◼   ► this is competition.

01:10:48 ◼   ► This is people moving where the money is, where the market is.

01:10:51 ◼   ► And when one company makes one move, like Eero running out the plus thing that's annoying

01:10:57 ◼   ► the tech nerds, Ubiquity is there to say this is actually a competitive market.

01:11:00 ◼   ► There are other choices.

01:11:01 ◼   ► Can we steal some of those customers by shoring up some of our weaknesses to get Casey to come

01:11:06 ◼   ► over to ours?

01:11:07 ◼   ► Because he's he's close.

01:11:08 ◼   ► He doesn't want to deal with all the Ubiquity stuff.

01:11:09 ◼   ► But like but now Eero is annoying him and doesn't give him enough things and doesn't want

01:11:12 ◼   ► to pay for plus.

01:11:13 ◼   ► Can we get Casey over here?

01:11:14 ◼   ► And I feel like in the NAS, I mean, get ready for the email in the NAS market as Synology

01:11:19 ◼   ► tries to move more enterprise and says, oh, you got to buy our storage at a massive markup.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Believe me, there are other NAS companies out there like, aha, these people who were stuck

01:11:27 ◼   ► on Synology for so long, we're like you didn't want to buy us before because we were a little

01:11:30 ◼   ► bit too nerdy.

01:11:31 ◼   ► But now we sense weakness and Synology is betraying people like Casey.

01:11:35 ◼   ► Can we get him?

01:11:36 ◼   ► And Ubiquity again, you know, they had a NAS type product.

01:11:38 ◼   ► If it can do what Synology did for Casey, they can steal him away.

01:11:43 ◼   ► And so even though this is a story of frustration and annoyance and feelings of betrayal, I think

01:11:48 ◼   ► it's also a story of the good things about having markets that are actually competitive.

01:11:54 ◼   ► And most of these are competitive markets.

01:11:56 ◼   ► NAS, Wi-Fi routers, in-home speakers, maybe less so there.

01:12:02 ◼   ► But none of these have like a giant gatekeeper that is controlling everything about them.

01:12:07 ◼   ► And so as you know, there's turmoil and we are getting our hearts broken by companies

01:12:12 ◼   ► that we love.

01:12:13 ◼   ► But I feel like it's an opportunity for other companies to become the new companies that we

01:12:16 ◼   ► love.

01:12:16 ◼   ► And also to remember, like I said, like I love Eero.

01:12:19 ◼   ► I don't think I'm ever going to get Ubiquity unless Eero does something really terrible.

01:12:24 ◼   ► And just because a product isn't for you doesn't mean it's not for other people.

01:12:27 ◼   ► So I will continue to definitely recommend Eero to everybody.

01:12:30 ◼   ► I'll continue to not recommend Sonos because my experience for them has been terrible.

01:12:33 ◼   ► But that's how we all recommend things on our personal experiences.

01:12:37 ◼   ► You know, what works for you may not work for everybody else.

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01:14:34 ◼   ► If you don't mind me possibly angering you, I think it's not that big of a deal that Synology

01:14:47 ◼   ► is requiring their own drives now, and here's why.

01:14:50 ◼   ► So, first of all, I did some quick research to try to figure out, okay, well, how much

01:14:56 ◼   ► more expensive are the Synology drives or what different options are there?

01:14:59 ◼   ► Like, how bad is this really if you're buying new?

01:15:02 ◼   ► If you're getting a new Synology and you need to figure out what you're going to put into

01:15:06 ◼   ► it, what are we talking about here?

01:15:07 ◼   ► Basically thinking, like, maybe for you, since you are so in love with everything else about

01:15:14 ◼   ► Synology, maybe the solution is to spend the extra $30 on the drives or whatever.

01:15:19 ◼   ► You know, because, like, you love everything else.

01:15:21 ◼   ► Like, is it really worth, like, maybe this is a foot gun of your own.

01:15:25 ◼   ► Maybe, like, is it really worth, like, biting off your nose to spite your face, whatever that

01:15:29 ◼   ► thing is, like, you know, is it really worth, like, giving up everything else you like about

01:15:33 ◼   ► Synology to avoid spending a small amount more per drive when you replace them?

01:15:37 ◼   ► Yeah, depending on how much it is.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Although, to your point, I forgot to make this point earlier.

01:15:40 ◼   ► This has not dissuaded me from buying Synology as my next NAS.

01:15:45 ◼   ► If my everyone ever dies, I'm almost certainly going to pay for the stupid proprietary Synology

01:15:52 ◼   ► drives, which are really just remass drives.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Because, from my perspective, it does everything that I want it to do already.

01:15:59 ◼   ► And, I mean, I'm an Apple customer.

01:16:01 ◼   ► I buy their computers despite the fact that everything in them is marked up so high.

01:16:06 ◼   ► I mean, again, looking at their price, right?

01:16:08 ◼   ► So, like, it really just depends on, you know, where you are in relation to where they are.

01:16:14 ◼   ► And I don't like the fact that they're requiring these drives.

01:16:16 ◼   ► But, honestly, it does actually save me a step, which is, oh, now I've got to research drives

01:16:21 ◼   ► and figure out what the best price performance and reliability is for the storage that I want

01:16:26 ◼   ► on my new Synology.

01:16:27 ◼   ► And, again, I don't endorse the move, but it has not dissuaded me from getting a Synology

01:16:34 ◼   ► with my next NAS.

01:16:35 ◼   ► And the thing is, like, when you look at the pricing, so I just did some quick Amazon

01:16:38 ◼   ► searches, like, you know, what are Synology charging?

01:16:40 ◼   ► And then, you know, what are equivalent, like, you know, WD Red Pros or, you know, whatever.

01:16:44 ◼   ► And it's hard to figure out, like, you know, what exact drive are they using?

01:16:47 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the problem.

01:16:48 ◼   ► You have to find out the actual mechanism they're using because even though you decide to get

01:16:51 ◼   ► the same storage, sure, and it's not that much more expensive, but they might be using

01:16:54 ◼   ► worse drives under that sticker.

01:16:55 ◼   ► Yeah, but whatever it is, like, when you look, when you compare, like, so I can't find a good

01:17:00 ◼   ► comparison for their higher-end Enterprise series.

01:17:03 ◼   ► But their Plus series, like, they're kind of, like, you know, mid-range price drives,

01:17:07 ◼   ► they look a lot like WD Red Pros, but maybe, you know, maybe it's something else.

01:17:10 ◼   ► But the pricing, when you look at WD Red Pro, it's almost the same.

01:17:14 ◼   ► It's maybe, like, 10 or 20 bucks more in some cases.

01:17:16 ◼   ► Some of them are exactly the same.

01:17:18 ◼   ► And it's funny, I just bought a Ubiquiti storage device, the big, the camera NVR, the recorder

01:17:29 ◼   ► for the security cameras, which is basically a four-bay enclosure where they run some software.

01:17:33 ◼   ► And Ubiquiti has their own drives, too.

01:17:36 ◼   ► Oh, really?

01:17:36 ◼   ► I don't think you have to use them, but I did buy their drives.

01:17:42 ◼   ► Because when you look at the prices, compare them to, again, WD Red Pros or, you know,

01:17:46 ◼   ► whatever your brand of choice is for NAS drives, it was about the same price.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Or it was, like, you know, 10 or 20 bucks more.

01:17:51 ◼   ► And it saves you a research step.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Now you don't have to worry, you're getting the wrong drives.

01:17:54 ◼   ► Right.

01:17:55 ◼   ► And so, and I see from their perspective, like, from the company's perspective, I actually

01:18:01 ◼   ► see why they would do this.

01:18:02 ◼   ► Because it is probably a headache when you have a customer who's, like, you know, they buy your

01:18:08 ◼   ► thing, and then they buy a whole bunch of, like, crappy consumer-grade drives, and then

01:18:12 ◼   ► maybe some of them die, or they don't perform quite right, or they don't, or maybe the vibrations

01:18:16 ◼   ► in the enclosure, like, kind of tweak them or whatever.

01:18:18 ◼   ► Like, you can kind of see why, from a company's perspective, like, supporting all that actually

01:18:23 ◼   ► is messier, and actually is more expensive.

01:18:25 ◼   ► And if you look at the price of these drives, I don't think they're making that much on them.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Like, they might be making a little bit, and maybe the higher-end ones, again, I wasn't

01:18:33 ◼   ► able to find a direct comparison for, like, their Enterprise series, which do look like they

01:18:38 ◼   ► might have fatter margins.

01:18:39 ◼   ► But their, like, their regular Plus series looks about the same pricing as consumer drives

01:18:45 ◼   ► from, you know, directly from the brands.

01:18:46 ◼   ► So I don't think it's necessarily all about revenue here.

01:18:50 ◼   ► It might just be about support and control.

01:18:53 ◼   ► And, you know, controlling that surface area.

01:18:55 ◼   ► Because, like, you know, I think most people who are going to buy a brand-new Synology are

01:18:59 ◼   ► not trying to bring in a whole bunch of old 4-terabyte drives to work with it.

01:19:03 ◼   ► They're probably looking also to buy drives at the same time.

01:19:06 ◼   ► So for them to offer this, I definitely think they should offer it.

01:19:10 ◼   ► But then to have them make it the only choice, I don't think is as destructive as you might

01:19:15 ◼   ► think.

01:19:15 ◼   ► And, you know, because the reality is, like, hard drives, like, you know, Synology's last a

01:19:19 ◼   ► long time, as we know.

01:19:20 ◼   ► By the time you're ready to replace your Synology, it's probably no longer worth occupying bays

01:19:26 ◼   ► with some old, you know, 4 or 8-terabyte drive when you can get 24-terabyte drives today.

01:19:31 ◼   ► You know, you're better off buying a smaller Synology and just putting two new 24-terabyte

01:19:35 ◼   ► drives in it if you wanted to.

01:19:36 ◼   ► Or, you know, get a bigger one, leave some empty bays, and just, you know, get the big

01:19:40 ◼   ► drives that are available today.

01:19:42 ◼   ► And most customers who are buying them are probably buying storage at the same time.

01:19:46 ◼   ► So if you see, like, well, the Synology official drive is only 10 or 20 bucks more than a WD

01:19:51 ◼   ► Red or whatever, like, it's like, okay, then that's not that bad of a situation.

01:19:54 ◼   ► Yeah, you're convincing me.

01:19:56 ◼   ► And just very quickly, when I did get the new Synology, which, again, was, I think, a year

01:20:00 ◼   ► or two ago, it's a 1621-plus, I believe.

01:20:03 ◼   ► So it's two fewer bays.

01:20:05 ◼   ► And that's exactly what I did, was I bought bigger drives and fewer of them.

01:20:07 ◼   ► And I actually have one or maybe even two bays open right now.

01:20:10 ◼   ► It's exactly what you said.

01:20:12 ◼   ► No, you're both convincing me that maybe the sky isn't falling as bad as I thought it was.

01:20:17 ◼   ► It's still disheartening.

01:20:19 ◼   ► And I stand by that.

01:20:21 ◼   ► But I do take both of your points that maybe this is not 100% bad, and maybe there is some

01:20:27 ◼   ► upside to it.

01:20:28 ◼   ► And I wanted to briefly come back to my blog post, because I got myself sidetracked and

01:20:31 ◼   ► didn't mention that I feel like the opposite of this, the opposite of the, well, you know,

01:20:36 ◼   ► Sonos, eh, but Eero, eh.

01:20:38 ◼   ► The opposite of that is the M4 MacBook Air.

01:20:41 ◼   ► It used to be, well, what Mac should I, or even what computer should I buy?

01:20:45 ◼   ► Well, I strongly recommend it back.

01:20:47 ◼   ► But depending on what you're doing with it, well, you might want to get the MacBook Air,

01:20:50 ◼   ► the M3 MacBook Air, whatever it was, M2, I forget.

01:20:53 ◼   ► It doesn't matter.

01:20:53 ◼   ► You might want to get the MacBook Air, but, well, if you really want a better screen.

01:20:57 ◼   ► And now, unless there's, you have some really weird needs or use cases, what computer do

01:21:04 ◼   ► I get, Casey?

01:21:04 ◼   ► The $1,000 M4 MacBook Air.

01:21:06 ◼   ► And if you have a little extra money, get a little more RAM.

01:21:08 ◼   ► And if you have even more extra money, get a little bigger SSD.

01:21:10 ◼   ► But honestly, the $1,000 MacBook Air is the answer.

01:21:13 ◼   ► And that, to me, is the opposite of all these other foot guns, even though I do take your

01:21:21 ◼   ► points that maybe they're not so foot gunny after all.

01:21:23 ◼   ► But this is the opposite, right?

01:21:26 ◼   ► I don't know what the opposite of a foot gun is.

01:21:27 ◼   ► But it's fit for market.

01:21:28 ◼   ► Because when we're recommending people, we're like, oh, you are a person who doesn't have

01:21:33 ◼   ► computers as a hobby.

01:21:34 ◼   ► You just need a computer to do basic things.

01:21:35 ◼   ► And we like to have a product that is a good fit for that market.

01:21:39 ◼   ► Because that's the question we mostly get asked, because most customers are not, you

01:21:42 ◼   ► know, computer enthusiasts.

01:21:43 ◼   ► They just need a computer to do stuff with.

01:21:44 ◼   ► It's so great to have one that we feel like is a good fit for that market.

01:21:48 ◼   ► And we can, you know, unequivocally recommend.

01:21:50 ◼   ► Although I would quibble, I would say it's more important to get more SSD space than more RAM,

01:21:53 ◼   ► because I think 16 is plenty.

01:21:54 ◼   ► But anyway, we've talked about that over the years.

01:21:57 ◼   ► Like when Apple has had products that are a good fit for the mass market that we can recommend

01:22:03 ◼   ► as tech nerds that we can recommend.

01:22:04 ◼   ► Because people ask us, you know about computers, what computer should I get?

01:22:07 ◼   ► We love to be able to have a product that exists that is a good fit.

01:22:10 ◼   ► And your whole post is about a bunch of products that are no longer as good a fit for you as

01:22:16 ◼   ► they used to be.

01:22:17 ◼   ► And sometimes it's in crappy ways, right?

01:22:19 ◼   ► You know, like I think you put in this thing about, you know, a sentence about them being

01:22:24 ◼   ► greedy and everything.

01:22:25 ◼   ► As people who sell products, we have all heard all of our products be condemned because we

01:22:30 ◼   ► are greedy for asking for too much money for them.

01:22:33 ◼   ► It's impossible to sell something without having people yell at you to say that you're greedy.

01:22:38 ◼   ► As you noted, they're just trying to be a business and be successful.

01:22:41 ◼   ► But it does not feel good when a business, you know, drifts away from you.

01:22:44 ◼   ► And Synology has such a long history of that.

01:22:46 ◼   ► And like the price differences, it's not just the price thing.

01:22:48 ◼   ► Like if you're a hobbyist, part of your hobby is the excitement of carefully researching hard drive

01:22:54 ◼   ► mechanisms to find the best bang for the buck based on what your specific needs are.

01:22:58 ◼   ► Are you running a video recorder that's going to constantly be writing huge amounts of data?

01:23:02 ◼   ► Or are these disks mostly idle and it's got lots of tiny files?

01:23:05 ◼   ► Is there a sale on a particular drive?

01:23:07 ◼   ► Is there some mechanism that is, you know, in the world of hard drives?

01:23:10 ◼   ► If you go to storagereview.com, it's like, is there some hard drive spinning hard drive mechanism

01:23:14 ◼   ► that is like, wow, this is the sweet spot.

01:23:16 ◼   ► It's an amazing performer.

01:23:18 ◼   ► The price is low.

01:23:18 ◼   ► The reliability has been great.

01:23:20 ◼   ► This is like, you know, a drive for all time.

01:23:23 ◼   ► It'll be on the leaderboard for a while.

01:23:24 ◼   ► And we'll remember those days.

01:23:25 ◼   ► It's like that's part of the hobby is finding that drive, which will be significantly better

01:23:30 ◼   ► performing or significantly cheaper or both than what Synology offers.

01:23:33 ◼   ► But if that's not your hobby, it saves you a decision.

01:23:36 ◼   ► Like Marco wasn't didn't really have the time or didn't want to research exactly which drives

01:23:41 ◼   ► would be best for his Ubiquity video recording station.

01:23:43 ◼   ► Just just get whatever Ubiquity says, because presumably it will work, you know, and you're

01:23:48 ◼   ► just you offload that decision to them in exchange for money.

01:23:51 ◼   ► People do that with Macs all the time.

01:23:54 ◼   ► We do that with Macs sometimes grudgingly because we know that we could get cheaper

01:23:59 ◼   ► storage if we were allowed to.

01:24:01 ◼   ► Oh, there's no sometimes about it.

01:24:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:03 ◼   ► Every time I have to upgrade a spec on Apple's website on a computer I'm buying, it's grudgingly

01:24:08 ◼   ► like every time it's with a heavy heart.

01:24:11 ◼   ► Well, I mean, sometimes it's like, well, well, the SoC, it's like, well, it's not like I can

01:24:14 ◼   ► buy that anywhere else.

01:24:15 ◼   ► Apple is the only company that makes this SoC and it's amazing SoC.

01:24:18 ◼   ► Like if you were trying to do local models and you need 96 gigs of unified memory and

01:24:22 ◼   ► Apple's prices are insane.

01:24:23 ◼   ► It's like, well, what are your alternatives?

01:24:24 ◼   ► There's that NVIDIA thing or whatever.

01:24:26 ◼   ► But yeah, because we are tech nerds, we we know that there are better options, sometimes

01:24:30 ◼   ► obvious better options.

01:24:32 ◼   ► But from the perspective of a non-tech nerds, they're like, thank goodness I don't have

01:24:36 ◼   ► to think about that.

01:24:36 ◼   ► Thank goodness this decision has been made for me, presumably in a way that the company vouches

01:24:41 ◼   ► for and, you know, it'll support all the features or whatever.

01:24:44 ◼   ► But like, but if you are a hobbyist, they're taking away part of your hobby by saying you

01:24:48 ◼   ► don't get to do that activity where you get to save money, feel smart, have fun and have

01:24:53 ◼   ► a better product in the end because we're requiring you to use our drives if you want all the features.

01:24:57 ◼   ► That's what they're taking away from hobbyists.

01:24:59 ◼   ► So I don't think it's exactly the same as and poopification, which is a nice way of

01:25:02 ◼   ► saying that and poopification is more like, let's just make it worse for everybody so we

01:25:06 ◼   ► can extract all the money from the world.

01:25:07 ◼   ► I feel like this is just more of a changing what your target market is, maybe changing to

01:25:12 ◼   ► a target market that is more lucrative and, you know, that we generally frown upon because

01:25:17 ◼   ► we see like it just, you know, you're fleecing big companies for lots of money.

01:25:20 ◼   ► But there are some okay reasons for why that market is like that, because what companies

01:25:25 ◼   ► mostly care about is, you know, cynically having someone to blame when something goes wrong.

01:25:30 ◼   ► But really, the reason they pay, you know, $100,000 a year for the support contracts or whatever

01:25:34 ◼   ► is because the business is not about storage.

01:25:37 ◼   ► And so you have to pay ridiculous, you know, money to EMC to deal with your storage things

01:25:42 ◼   ► that you're running on prem.

01:25:43 ◼   ► But ABS would say just don't do that anymore and pay us to do it, which will cost you even

01:25:46 ◼   ► more.

01:25:46 ◼   ► But anyway, it's worth it for the company to throw money at that problem because they

01:25:52 ◼   ► don't care about the minutia of storage.

01:25:54 ◼   ► They just want it to work.

01:25:55 ◼   ► And when it doesn't work, they want someone they can call 24 hours a day to fix it.

01:25:58 ◼   ► And if they have to pay 10 times as much as that storage is, quote unquote, really worth

01:26:03 ◼   ► if you were to assemble it yourself and had a team of people, you know, like the math works

01:26:08 ◼   ► for them.

01:26:08 ◼   ► And, you know, you'll have to decide, Casey, when the time, if and when the time comes, which

01:26:12 ◼   ► again, I don't think should be anytime soon.

01:26:14 ◼   ► You just bought a new Synology, does the math work for you at that time?

01:26:17 ◼   ► This kind of like the situation you're going to be in with Ubiquity, you seem attracted to

01:26:22 ◼   ► it because it's cool.

01:26:23 ◼   ► And that is a big plus in the plus column.

01:26:25 ◼   ► And so when it comes time, like, do you when it comes time to change, you need to change

01:26:29 ◼   ► your network at all?

01:26:29 ◼   ► No, but I want to because this is cool and it's your hobby.

01:26:32 ◼   ► And so suddenly Ubiquity is looking good, even though your existing system is nothing technically

01:26:36 ◼   ► wrong with it.

01:26:37 ◼   ► And it's not like Eero is punching you in the face about the plus thing.

01:26:40 ◼   ► But every time you launch that app, there's the come on.

01:26:42 ◼   ► And it's like, well, if you're launching the app at all, maybe Ubiquity is for you.

01:26:46 ◼   ► So I feel like this is this is a great post because it really just does outline the path.

01:26:51 ◼   ► We all travel as tech enthusiasts trying to find the product that is the right fit for

01:26:56 ◼   ► us.

01:26:57 ◼   ► And it's an emotional roller coaster.

01:26:59 ◼   ► Like I've demonstrated that, like, you could be so enthusiastic and so excited whether it's

01:27:04 ◼   ► a great product for you or whether it's a great product for all the people who ask you

01:27:08 ◼   ► about it.

01:27:08 ◼   ► And when that changes, it feels like betrayal.

01:27:11 ◼   ► But like I said, I'm heartened by the fact that a lot of these products have competitors

01:27:16 ◼   ► and I relish them competing with each other to try to, you know, wherever there's a hole

01:27:22 ◼   ► left in the market, someone should swoop in and try to fill that hole and take that money

01:27:25 ◼   ► that some other company doesn't want to take.

01:27:27 ◼   ► Yeah, but I think it's important, though, to try to, like, try to make sure that when

01:27:31 ◼   ► you are, you know, like, you know, not biting off your nose, just bite your face, whatever

01:27:35 ◼   ► that.

01:27:35 ◼   ► So I know I'm getting it wrong.

01:27:37 ◼   ► I think it's cutting off.

01:27:37 ◼   ► There you go.

01:27:38 ◼   ► But like, I feel like it's, you know, when you're making these kind of decisions, it can

01:27:43 ◼   ► be so easy to get wrapped up in something that you just you just can't bear.

01:27:47 ◼   ► It's like, oh, I just I just can't bear to, you know, to spend Apple storage prices or

01:27:51 ◼   ► whatever.

01:27:51 ◼   ► And, you know, for everything we buy, like there are there are potential risks for that

01:27:56 ◼   ► that kind of that kind of feeling and resistance.

01:27:58 ◼   ► Some people reach that point with the things that appear in settings on their phone that

01:28:02 ◼   ► are come on for Apple TV.

01:28:03 ◼   ► Yeah, they just can't bear that.

01:28:04 ◼   ► And they switch to Android.

01:28:05 ◼   ► Everyone has their own line.

01:28:07 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:28:07 ◼   ► Right.

01:28:07 ◼   ► And no company is immune to giving us those kind of things.

01:28:11 ◼   ► Like there's a whole bunch, you know, about being an Apple fan, for instance, there's a

01:28:15 ◼   ► whole bunch that you kind of have to suck up with Sonos.

01:28:19 ◼   ► Sonos stuff, you know, even before the app debacle and everything, Sonos stuff was great,

01:28:24 ◼   ► but God, is it expensive?

01:28:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:26 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:28:26 ◼   ► So you have to you have to get over that.

01:28:28 ◼   ► And there are certain, you know, there are certain features or priorities like, you know,

01:28:33 ◼   ► people who are like true audio files mostly don't go for Sonos.

01:28:37 ◼   ► Yeah, they turn their nose up at it because they have a whole different hobby.

01:28:39 ◼   ► And they have different priorities and different needs and different things that they like just

01:28:44 ◼   ► can't stomach or I just can't get past, you know, X, Y, Z.

01:28:47 ◼   ► Right.

01:28:47 ◼   ► And so every one of these things that we're a fan of and that we use has that kind of list.

01:28:51 ◼   ► And I think it's as tech people, we do ourselves a disservice the more of those things we can't

01:28:58 ◼   ► bear, because a lot of times that can prevent us from actually accepting the product that's

01:29:04 ◼   ► best for us.

01:29:05 ◼   ► And that would give us a better day to day ownership.

01:29:07 ◼   ► Like, you know, if you think about, for instance, like if you really hated Apple storage prices,

01:29:13 ◼   ► one solution you could do when buying a new MacBook is you can just get an external drive and like

01:29:19 ◼   ► Velcro it to the back of the thing and just plug it in and leave it there all the time.

01:29:21 ◼   ► Like you can do that.

01:29:22 ◼   ► We have done that.

01:29:23 ◼   ► Like we had a laptop in our house that was like that for a long time.

01:29:26 ◼   ► Like and one of the way one of the reasons you can do that is you literally can't afford

01:29:31 ◼   ► Apple's pricing.

01:29:31 ◼   ► And that's understandable.

01:29:32 ◼   ► If you're in that situation, I totally get it.

01:29:35 ◼   ► But another reason you might do that is you could afford it.

01:29:38 ◼   ► You just don't want to pay because it's like ideologically, you know, that's too much to

01:29:41 ◼   ► pay for X terabytes of storage or whatever to have it built in.

01:29:45 ◼   ► That's some nose biting territory, right?

01:29:47 ◼   ► And again, that's because it's like, well, OK, if you did just pay Apple for the terabyte

01:29:52 ◼   ► or whatever, that is brief pain.

01:29:55 ◼   ► But if you can otherwise afford it a month after you buy it, you're not going to think about

01:30:00 ◼   ► that anymore.

01:30:01 ◼   ► But you would always have that hard drive Velcro to your laptop lid.

01:30:04 ◼   ► So like when you if you if it comes time for you to buy a new Synology and you got to pay

01:30:09 ◼   ► an extra 20 bucks for the hard drives in it.

01:30:11 ◼   ► OK, you're going to grumble and you're going to hate that for one day.

01:30:15 ◼   ► And then the entire next 10 years that Synology runs, you will not think about that.

01:30:21 ◼   ► Like and but if you if you instead bid off that Synology to replace it with something that

01:30:26 ◼   ► was different, a different product that would take your hard drives or that would save you

01:30:30 ◼   ► 40 bucks, you might like that.

01:30:32 ◼   ► My that product might be worse for you in most other ways in its lifetime.

01:30:36 ◼   ► But you you would have forgotten about the hard drive purchases like a month in, whereas

01:30:41 ◼   ► that product will be worse forever.

01:30:43 ◼   ► And so you have to ideally as a tech person, you have to be able to look at things as objectively

01:30:48 ◼   ► as you can and be like, look, is it really going to be worth me having a worse experience

01:30:53 ◼   ► for the next X years of owning this product in exchange for swallowing some pride or some

01:31:00 ◼   ► grumbling about something being too expensive or too proprietary or too locked in up front.

01:31:05 ◼   ► And for many people, you know, they might make a different choice, but if it's something

01:31:11 ◼   ► that like you use every day and it otherwise fits your needs very well, a lot of times it

01:31:16 ◼   ► can be worth it to just say, you know what, I'm just going to suck it up and that's and I'm

01:31:20 ◼   ► just going to pay the Apple the stupid Apple price or I'm just going to buy the stupid Synology

01:31:23 ◼   ► drive because the overall product experience is better having done that for my actual for my

01:31:29 ◼   ► ongoing needs and preferences.

01:31:31 ◼   ► You told a story on the show a long time ago and it was about you RVing with friends.

01:31:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:40 ◼   ► When I rented the RV and depleted the resources on my planet in like two seconds.

01:31:43 ◼   ► Well, there's that, but no, that's not exactly where I'm going with this.

01:31:47 ◼   ► You recounted an exchange.

01:31:49 ◼   ► I don't recall if you had the exchange privately with gray and maybe that's why I didn't remember

01:31:53 ◼   ► it or it didn't register with me until you told the story.

01:31:56 ◼   ► But when you told the story, it blew my mind.

01:32:00 ◼   ► And what you said was, I think you were talking privately with gray, but one way or another

01:32:04 ◼   ► and jump in if you want to interrupt.

01:32:05 ◼   ► That's totally fine.

01:32:06 ◼   ► But you were talking to gray about how, Oh, it's going to be like 50 or a hundred dollars

01:32:09 ◼   ► for them to clean the wastewater tank or empty the wastewater tank when you're done with

01:32:14 ◼   ► the RV.

01:32:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:15 ◼   ► It's like, it's like you, you, you can clean, you can empty it yourself.

01:32:18 ◼   ► And if you don't, there's like a hundred dollar fine.

01:32:20 ◼   ► Right.

01:32:21 ◼   ► And gray said to you, is it something along the lines of, is that really a fine or is that

01:32:25 ◼   ► just what it costs?

01:32:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:26 ◼   ► He's like the, a fine is just a price.

01:32:28 ◼   ► Right.

01:32:29 ◼   ► And that blew your mind or at least it did at the time.

01:32:31 ◼   ► And that blew my mind.

01:32:35 ◼   ► And I think about that more often than I should probably publicly admit, because that really

01:32:41 ◼   ► does change your perspective.

01:32:42 ◼   ► And I think one of you, I don't recall which one of you was, might've been Marco a few

01:32:46 ◼   ► minutes ago, basically said the same thing about the Synology drives that ultimately it's

01:32:51 ◼   ► just that the price is the, is a little bit more expensive than it was.

01:32:55 ◼   ► Stop thinking of it as a punishment.

01:32:56 ◼   ► You know, I'm talking to myself now, you know, stop thinking of it as a punishment.

01:32:59 ◼   ► Stop thinking of it as a regression and just understand that you're going to be buying

01:33:04 ◼   ► new drives anyway.

01:33:04 ◼   ► Like you did say Marco, and those drives are just going to be a touch more expensive than

01:33:08 ◼   ► they were.

01:33:09 ◼   ► And that's just the fee for getting the thing you like.

01:33:11 ◼   ► And I got myself wrapped around the axle.

01:33:14 ◼   ► I mean, I stand by the blog post, although I certainly didn't think of it very differently

01:33:16 ◼   ► now after talking to the two of you than I did, you know, a couple of days ago.

01:33:19 ◼   ► But ultimately I need to reframe my perspective such that it's, if I, if, and when I do choose

01:33:27 ◼   ► to replace the Synology, which presumably won't be for a long time.

01:33:29 ◼   ► And, you know, maybe I will go go ahead and get one anyway.

01:33:32 ◼   ► I need to reframe the perspective, my perspective, not as, oh, I'm being punished, but rather

01:33:36 ◼   ► this is just, this is the fee now.

01:33:38 ◼   ► That's just the way it is.

01:33:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:33:39 ◼   ► This is just the price.

01:33:40 ◼   ► Well, you can think, I mean, I think it is proper to frame it as either a punishment or

01:33:44 ◼   ► a regression.

01:33:44 ◼   ► What you should not think of it as is a betrayal because that makes it seem like personal,

01:33:48 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

01:33:49 ◼   ► And it feels like a betrayal.

01:33:50 ◼   ► Like I, like it's not, that's what it feels like.

01:33:52 ◼   ► I'm not saying it doesn't feel like, cause it absolutely does.

01:33:55 ◼   ► But that's a way to frame it kind of like the thing before about, uh, should I yell

01:33:58 ◼   ► at my employees or not?

01:33:59 ◼   ► Like basing it on, on your feelings versus, uh, you know, let's say, uh, some more, uh, uh,

01:34:06 ◼   ► concrete measurable things besides just how you feel about it feels like a betrayal and it

01:34:10 ◼   ► is a regression in, in the things that you care about.

01:34:13 ◼   ► And it, and it can also feel like a punishment and it is kind of like a punishment, but it's,

01:34:17 ◼   ► it just, it isn't actually a betrayal that they, you, there was actually the relationship

01:34:21 ◼   ► that you imagined between you and the company Synology did not actually exist.

01:34:24 ◼   ► And it was just a matter of you being a fit for their market at a certain point.

01:34:27 ◼   ► And the whole thing, like a fine is a price.

01:34:29 ◼   ► It's kind of like the, uh, this reminds me of the, uh, uh, it's, it's like the, the rich

01:34:34 ◼   ► dude equivalent of self-care, which is a, you know, which is a thing, a useful, positive thing

01:34:40 ◼   ► of like learning how to take care of yourself and not just like, you know, putting your nose

01:34:44 ◼   ► to the grindstone and never taking a second thought about, uh, how am I doing?

01:34:48 ◼   ► Am I getting enough sleep?

01:34:49 ◼   ► Is it okay for me to occasionally do something nice to myself or whatever?

01:34:53 ◼   ► And like anything, uh, especially things that are trends on, uh, social media or whatever,

01:34:57 ◼   ► you can take that to the extreme.

01:34:59 ◼   ► And, you know, self-care can become a way of life where all you ever do is buy little treats

01:35:04 ◼   ► for yourself and give yourself vacations and breaks and always tell yourself that whatever

01:35:07 ◼   ► you're doing is perfect.

01:35:08 ◼   ► Uh, the correct strategy is probably somewhere in the middle.

01:35:13 ◼   ► You don't want to constantly be beating yourself up and never rewarding yourself and never taking

01:35:17 ◼   ► a moment to care for yourself.

01:35:18 ◼   ► On the other hand, you don't want to excuse everything you ever do and just spend your entire

01:35:22 ◼   ► life doing little treats.

01:35:23 ◼   ► And it's the same thing with like a fine is a price.

01:35:25 ◼   ► Uh, if you follow that to its logical conclusion and you're not fabulously wealthy, you will

01:35:29 ◼   ► run out of money.

01:35:30 ◼   ► So don't do that.

01:35:32 ◼   ► Like actually do be smart about buying things.

01:35:35 ◼   ► Oh, well, you know, uh, the Porsche is, uh, you know, a little, uh, black badge on the

01:35:39 ◼   ► back costs $15,000 extra, but you know, I'll treat myself really have to, you know, it's,

01:35:46 ◼   ► it's both of those sides have, uh, have pulls to them that can pull you in either of those

01:35:51 ◼   ► directions and finding the right balance is tricky.

01:35:54 ◼   ► Right.

01:35:54 ◼   ► And so maybe Casey, we're trying to pull you more in the direction of like, like Marco

01:35:58 ◼   ► said, uh, momentary pain that hopefully you can afford 10 years from now when you replace

01:36:02 ◼   ► your technology in exchange for a lifetime of ownership that you find more satisfying

01:36:06 ◼   ► against your feeling of betrayal and your need to retaliate and say, well, that's, um, you

01:36:11 ◼   ► know, you, you put an ad for Apple TV plus in settings.

01:36:14 ◼   ► I'm never using an iPhone again.

01:36:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:36:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:36:16 ◼   ► I, that's not a line I would draw, even though that ad annoys me just like it annoys everybody

01:36:20 ◼   ► else.

01:36:21 ◼   ► You do have to kind of take that measurement and the same thing of like, well, it costs

01:36:25 ◼   ► a little bit more, but treat yourself.

01:36:26 ◼   ► I, I just bought a Mac book air with 32 gigs of Ram, right?

01:36:30 ◼   ► Like that's, I'm prone to it as well, but you know, when it comes time to spec up my next

01:36:36 ◼   ► replacement for my computer, like I, I kind of did that with my Mac pro, uh, but I didn't

01:36:41 ◼   ► go whole hog with it.

01:36:42 ◼   ► I didn't get the super expensive video card.

01:36:44 ◼   ► Cause I just, you know, but I had my old computer for 10 years.

01:36:47 ◼   ► So it's, it's always that push and pull, but I, I'm sure people hear this like, oh, treat

01:36:51 ◼   ► yourself.

01:36:51 ◼   ► It's a great attitude to have for people who have tons of money.

01:36:53 ◼   ► Uh, it doesn't matter how much money you have.

01:36:55 ◼   ► You should always keep that impulse under some kind of control and make a decision that makes

01:37:00 ◼   ► sense for you.

01:37:00 ◼   ► Because, you know, like I always say, any, any amount you don't spend on your extra

01:37:04 ◼   ► Synology drives that are taking you away from your hobby you enjoy, you can put into something

01:37:07 ◼   ► else like replacing your air with a ubiquity system because it makes you happy.

01:37:10 ◼   ► So hopefully Casey will come to a conclusion, come to decisions that make him happy, not just

01:37:17 ◼   ► in the short term, but also in the longterm.

01:37:18 ◼   ► And thankfully I think he has many options here.

01:37:20 ◼   ► Uh, I do not envy the amount of NAS based email we're about to get, but you know, Casey, you

01:37:26 ◼   ► asked for it.

01:37:26 ◼   ► And, and also be, you know, before we move on from, you know, the, the fee being the price

01:37:31 ◼   ► kind of thinking, like it is also worth disclaiming like that kind of thinking is not always like

01:37:36 ◼   ► the entire picture.

01:37:37 ◼   ► So for instance, like if you're putting it, putting mercury into a river, don't have that

01:37:40 ◼   ► right.

01:37:41 ◼   ► Like, you know, as you were saying, like, you know, when rich people start thinking, it's

01:37:44 ◼   ► like, okay, well like parking in a handicapped spot, you're going to be fined for that.

01:37:48 ◼   ► Like there's other reasons you shouldn't.

01:37:50 ◼   ► You're also doing a terrible thing, right?

01:37:52 ◼   ► Like sometimes there's other factor in like, but getting a Synology branded drives is not

01:37:57 ◼   ► as bad as parking in a handicapped spot.

01:37:58 ◼   ► Let's not throw away all value judgments and think everything is just an exchange of value

01:38:03 ◼   ► and price price up.

01:38:03 ◼   ► But like, but paying someone else to clean the tank from your RV, like that, I don't even

01:38:08 ◼   ► understand why that's a fine.

01:38:09 ◼   ► I feel like it should just be an option of like, do you want to pay us to clean it yourself?

01:38:12 ◼   ► It's a hundred dollars.

01:38:13 ◼   ► I'm like, yes, please.

01:38:14 ◼   ► A hundred dollars.

01:38:14 ◼   ► Clean the tank out.

01:38:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:38:16 ◼   ► Or like when, you know, if you return a rental car and you don't fill it up with gas,

01:38:18 ◼   ► they'll just charge you for 10 times the price of the gas.

01:38:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:38:21 ◼   ► They'll charge you.

01:38:22 ◼   ► And yeah.

01:38:22 ◼   ► And it's probably, it's not the best value in the world.

01:38:25 ◼   ► Like they usually will charge you much more than it would cost you to do it yourself.

01:38:27 ◼   ► And if you're in a rush, you're like, okay, well look now, if my alternative is possibly

01:38:31 ◼   ► missing this flight, okay, I'll pay the 25 bucks or whatever, you know, like, so there

01:38:35 ◼   ► are, there's a lot of situations in life where like, obviously sometimes a fine is, you know,

01:38:40 ◼   ► because you're doing something terrible that has external.

01:38:43 ◼   ► And the fine should probably be higher for putting mercury in the river.

01:38:45 ◼   ► Right.

01:38:46 ◼   ► Like if you have like, you know, external factors that are awful that like, you know, you're

01:38:49 ◼   ► parking a handicap spot or you're polluting the world, like, yes, that needs to be more

01:38:53 ◼   ► of a deterrent, not just rich people being able to buy their way out of problems.

01:38:57 ◼   ► But if it's a situation of you just need to pay too much money for an extra terabyte

01:39:02 ◼   ► in your laptop, okay, that's just, that's just a price at that point.

01:39:05 ◼   ► It's okay.

01:39:05 ◼   ► Well, now you can decide like that might be worth it to me or not.

01:39:08 ◼   ► Yep.

01:39:09 ◼   ► Thank you to our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Delete Me, and Notion.

01:39:13 ◼   ► And thanks to our members who support us directly.

01:39:15 ◼   ► You can join us at atp.fm slash join.

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01:39:27 ◼   ► If you want to hear it too, join us atp.fm slash join.

01:39:30 ◼   ► This week on Overtime, we are talking about the rumors that Apple is working on some kind

01:39:36 ◼   ► of AI doctor or AI health coach based feature for some future release.

01:39:41 ◼   ► We're going to talk about that in Overtime today.

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01:39:53 ◼   ► Thank you so much.

01:39:54 ◼   ► And we'll talk to you next week.

01:39:55 ◼   ► Now the show is over.

01:40:00 ◼   ► They didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental.

01:40:06 ◼   ► Oh, it was accidental.

01:40:07 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:40:09 ◼   ► John didn't do any research.

01:40:11 ◼   ► Marco and Casey wouldn't let him.

01:40:13 ◼   ► Cause it was accidental.

01:40:15 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:40:16 ◼   ► Oh, it was accidental.

01:40:18 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:40:19 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at atp.fm.

01:40:25 ◼   ► And if you're into Mastodon.

01:40:27 ◼   ► You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.

01:40:33 ◼   ► So that's Casey Liss.

01:40:35 ◼   ► M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T.

01:40:39 ◼   ► Marco Arment.

01:40:40 ◼   ► S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S.

01:40:45 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:40:47 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:40:48 ◼   ► They didn't mean to.

01:40:51 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:40:52 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:40:53 ◼   ► Tech podcast so long.

01:40:57 ◼   ► Before we get to the after show, if you're still here, I just want to make one last plea.

01:41:03 ◼   ► This is the last show you're going to hear about the store.

01:41:05 ◼   ► You made it through the whole episode.

01:41:06 ◼   ► You heard us talk about all this stuff.

01:41:08 ◼   ► You made it all the way to the after show.

01:41:09 ◼   ► You might be the kind of person who might be interested in buying something from the store,

01:41:13 ◼   ► but maybe you didn't get around to it.