Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► From Relay, this is Upgrade,

00:00:10 ◼   ► episode 540, recorded December the 2nd, 2024.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's brought to you by Delete.me, Smarter World,

00:00:15 ◼   ► and ExpressVPN.

00:00:16 ◼   ► I am Jason Snell, your usual host,

00:00:19 ◼   ► but I'm not doing all the stuff

00:00:20 ◼   ► that usually is done by Mike Hurley,

00:00:22 ◼   ► because Mike Hurley is on assignment.

00:00:24 ◼   ► And so sitting in for Mr. Michael Hurley today

00:00:26 ◼   ► is our very special guest, Mr. Stephen M. Hackett.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Oh, I got the initial.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:35 ◼   ► I wanted to-- It was fancy.

00:00:36 ◼   ► I wanted to introduce you as I, Stephen M. Hackett,

00:00:38 ◼   ► but that's a little bit weird.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Now I'm inspired, sorry,

00:00:44 ◼   ► I'm gonna make a little baseball tangent here, I apologize.

00:00:47 ◼   ► The Giants radio broadcasters,

00:00:49 ◼   ► John Miller, Hall of Famer,

00:00:52 ◼   ► and Hall of Fame broadcaster, and David Fleming.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Dave Fleming is introduced by John every time

00:00:58 ◼   ► as David B. Fleming.

00:01:01 ◼   ► And it's like it's his dad introducing him,

00:01:02 ◼   ► and it just makes me laugh.

00:01:04 ◼   ► So I thought I'd give you the Stephen M.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Since your middle initial is part of your public persona,

00:01:09 ◼   ► I thought I'd throw it in there.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I really tried when I first started on the internet

00:01:13 ◼   ► to make it really real.

00:01:16 ◼   ► I included it everywhere, but it sort of faded over time.

00:01:19 ◼   ► But we can't talk about baseball,

00:01:22 ◼   ► because we have a Snell Talk question.

00:01:23 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:01:24 ◼   ► Bless you. About baseball.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:01:27 ◼   ► I'm giving Kevin credit for this,

00:01:30 ◼   ► but many, many, many people wrote in about this.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Kevin said, "What will happen to the Snell family jerseys

00:01:38 ◼   ► now that Blake Snell is moving on to the hated Dodgers?"

00:01:41 ◼   ► Okay, do I have to explain what this means to you?

00:01:44 ◼   ► No, I understand.

00:01:45 ◼   ► My context of this is listening to Upgrade.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Okay, so yeah, you know all about it

00:01:50 ◼   ► from listening to a computer podcast about baseball.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Yes, Blake Snell, who is not related to me in any way,

00:01:56 ◼   ► was a Giant for a year.

00:01:58 ◼   ► He signed a two-year contract

00:01:59 ◼   ► that was very clearly only going to be a one-year contract.

00:02:02 ◼   ► And he opted out at the end of the year.

00:02:04 ◼   ► And during this year,

00:02:05 ◼   ► we bought a lot of Snell-branded Giants merchandise.

00:02:08 ◼   ► And now he has signed as a free agent

00:02:09 ◼   ► with the hated Dodgers.

00:02:11 ◼   ► This has had, okay,

00:02:12 ◼   ► so a lot of people have asked about this.

00:02:14 ◼   ► First off, I don't really care,

00:02:16 ◼   ► 'cause the whole point here,

00:02:18 ◼   ► I'm not really a Blake Snell fan.

00:02:19 ◼   ► He's great, he threw a no-hitter for the Giants.

00:02:21 ◼   ► It's awesome. That's right.

00:02:22 ◼   ► I know that from listening to the award-winning

00:02:24 ◼   ► Upgrade program.

00:02:25 ◼   ► Yeah, indeed, indeed.

00:02:26 ◼   ► We're a very popular baseball podcast.

00:02:29 ◼   ► And a very popular podcast

00:02:34 ◼   ► that's also sometimes about baseball,

00:02:35 ◼   ► but they're not connected.

00:02:37 ◼   ► So-- That's a different show.

00:02:39 ◼   ► He's fine, he's fine.

00:02:40 ◼   ► He's an interesting pitcher.

00:02:41 ◼   ► But my prime interest in him is that he has my last name.

00:02:44 ◼   ► And if he comes to your team,

00:02:46 ◼   ► there's a whole bunch of Snell-branded stuff

00:02:48 ◼   ► that you get to buy then.

00:02:49 ◼   ► So he spent a year on the Giants.

00:02:52 ◼   ► It allowed me to buy a jersey.

00:02:53 ◼   ► It allowed me to buy a T-shirt.

00:02:55 ◼   ► It allowed me to buy a T-shirt for my daughter.

00:02:57 ◼   ► It allowed me to buy a jersey for my wife.

00:02:59 ◼   ► We all had a good time,

00:03:00 ◼   ► because see, our names remain Snell

00:03:02 ◼   ► and we remain Giants fans.

00:03:03 ◼   ► So it's fine. It's fine.

00:03:05 ◼   ► I'm a little bummed out because he is a good pitcher

00:03:08 ◼   ► that he's on the Dodgers now.

00:03:09 ◼   ► But at the same time, he's also kind of injury-prone

00:03:15 ◼   ► and can't throw for very many innings usually.

00:03:19 ◼   ► So it's a risk for the Dodgers.

00:03:20 ◼   ► They're paying him a lot of money.

00:03:21 ◼   ► They're happy to do that.

00:03:22 ◼   ► So that's fine. That's fine. It's fine.

00:03:24 ◼   ► What's funny now is that my good friend Greg Noss,

00:03:28 ◼   ► the Dodger fan,

00:03:29 ◼   ► he can buy some Snell-branded merchandise and wear that

00:03:31 ◼   ► and go, "Yay, Snell!"

00:03:33 ◼   ► And he has to do that now because he's a Dodger fan.

00:03:35 ◼   ► And that actually kind of delights me.

00:03:38 ◼   ► So that's good.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Also, I hear from the grapevine

00:03:40 ◼   ► that one of his sons works in the baseball industry.

00:03:42 ◼   ► It wouldn't be amazing

00:03:46 ◼   ► if he ended up working for the Giants.

00:03:48 ◼   ► That's all I'm saying.

00:03:50 ◼   ► I'm not saying that he is,

00:03:51 ◼   ► but I mean, wouldn't that be great if he did?

00:03:52 ◼   ► I just would love that you're a loyal Dodger fan

00:03:55 ◼   ► your whole life, and then you get work in the industry,

00:03:58 ◼   ► you work where you need to,

00:03:59 ◼   ► and it's at the Giants that just make me laugh.

00:04:01 ◼   ► Anyway, thank you to everybody who wrote in,

00:04:05 ◼   ► and I got it on social media.

00:04:06 ◼   ► We didn't even mention the other huge Snell news,

00:04:08 ◼   ► by the way, from last week,

00:04:10 ◼   ► which was on the TV show "Star Trek Lower Decks."

00:04:13 ◼   ► I'm a huge "Star Trek" fan, lifelong "Star Trek" fan.

00:04:16 ◼   ► They go to a planet

00:04:17 ◼   ► that's got all these people on it

00:04:18 ◼   ► with a little antenna on their head,

00:04:19 ◼   ► and these little aliens,

00:04:21 ◼   ► and they have to hide out for months.

00:04:23 ◼   ► They have to live there because they get stranded.

00:04:26 ◼   ► And there's always, when you're undercover,

00:04:30 ◼   ► there's always that one snoopy character,

00:04:33 ◼   ► sneaky character who's always looking around for you.

00:04:36 ◼   ► And on the old "Bewitch" TV show,

00:04:40 ◼   ► it was Gladys Kravitz, the nosy neighbor,

00:04:42 ◼   ► who was like, "I think there's witchcraft going on,"

00:04:44 ◼   ► and everybody else thinks she's crazy,

00:04:45 ◼   ► but of course there is witchcraft going on.

00:04:47 ◼   ► It's what the show is about.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Anyway, that guy, the sneaky Snoop guy

00:04:51 ◼   ► in that whole episode who is used as a joke

00:04:54 ◼   ► and a punching bag, his name is Snell.

00:04:57 ◼   ► So...

00:04:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:05:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a big Snell week

00:05:02 ◼   ► around the old Snell household.

00:05:04 ◼   ► So... - The Snelliverse.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - Wild, wild.

00:05:08 ◼   ► Can we talk about the gift of Relay now?

00:05:11 ◼   ► I think we should do that.

00:05:12 ◼   ► You are a Relay co-founder,

00:05:14 ◼   ► so you wanna let people know the magic stuff

00:05:16 ◼   ► that you and Mike have hatched up for this holiday season?

00:05:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, let's do it.

00:05:20 ◼   ► So giverelay.com is where you wanna go.

00:05:24 ◼   ► You can use the code 2024holiday though,

00:05:27 ◼   ► if you go through the link in the show notes

00:05:29 ◼   ► or on the website.

00:05:30 ◼   ► So what's the deal?

00:05:31 ◼   ► 20% off all annual memberships from now until December 18th.

00:05:36 ◼   ► So for upgrade, that means you get upgrade plus,

00:05:39 ◼   ► which is longer ad-free episodes each and every week.

00:05:44 ◼   ► I love the upgrade plus segments, they're so good.

00:05:46 ◼   ► But you also get access to the Relay members Discord

00:05:50 ◼   ► and tons of bonus content,

00:05:52 ◼   ► like two monthly members only shows,

00:05:55 ◼   ► a newsletter, some wallpapers, a bunch of cool stuff.

00:05:58 ◼   ► And yeah, giverelay.com.

00:06:00 ◼   ► So if you already have a membership

00:06:02 ◼   ► to like another Relay show and you wanna add upgrade,

00:06:04 ◼   ► you can do that or you can gift it to somebody else.

00:06:07 ◼   ► So say you've got maybe a roommate who listens to upgrade,

00:06:09 ◼   ► y'all do it together and they wanna become a member,

00:06:12 ◼   ► or maybe you're like me and I think like Jason,

00:06:16 ◼   ► I think a lot of us who are nerdy

00:06:17 ◼   ► were kind of hard to shop for.

00:06:19 ◼   ► Just send that link to your aunt who drew your name

00:06:22 ◼   ► for the Christmas gift giving family extravaganza

00:06:26 ◼   ► and they can hook you up.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Giverelay.com through December 18th, 20% off and let's do it.

00:06:32 ◼   ► And this week on upgrade plus,

00:06:33 ◼   ► we're gonna talk about Thanksgiving stuff.

00:06:35 ◼   ► So that's right.

00:06:36 ◼   ► And when there's always something,

00:06:37 ◼   ► there's a whole other segment of the show

00:06:38 ◼   ► that happens after we say goodbye.

00:06:40 ◼   ► It's not like connected Steven where we do it before,

00:06:42 ◼   ► we do it after, it's like an after.

00:06:45 ◼   ► It's fine, connected just is very interesting

00:06:47 ◼   ► 'cause you talk about like video games and well,

00:06:50 ◼   ► Mike and Federico talking about video games

00:06:51 ◼   ► and you cry to yourself, I guess.

00:06:53 ◼   ► That's right.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Or just show up 15 minutes late, I don't know.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Yeah, how that works.

00:06:58 ◼   ► Yeah, we do connected, we do pro show at the beginning

00:07:01 ◼   ► and then we pick titles at the end,

00:07:03 ◼   ► kind of a little bit of both.

00:07:04 ◼   ► Yeah, a little bit of both, that's true.

00:07:05 ◼   ► There's the title picking at the end.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Last week's title was an all time classic.

00:07:10 ◼   ► It was.

00:07:11 ◼   ► In how nonsensical it is and how much Mike laughed

00:07:13 ◼   ► when he saw it as a title suggestion.

00:07:14 ◼   ► That was a really good one.

00:07:17 ◼   ► And I'll also point out that in your list of scenarios

00:07:22 ◼   ► in which you might give the gift of relay,

00:07:23 ◼   ► I liked how they got increasingly less likely

00:07:26 ◼   ► as you went along.

00:07:27 ◼   ► I was waiting for the like, let's say you're in space

00:07:29 ◼   ► and okay, what will happen then?

00:07:32 ◼   ► Anyway, lots of reasons to give the gift of relay

00:07:35 ◼   ► or have someone give it to you.

00:07:37 ◼   ► RSS cannot be held back by the bounds of gravity.

00:07:41 ◼   ► No, or probability, quite frankly, it's not powerful.

00:07:44 ◼   ► RSS is define gravity.

00:07:46 ◼   ► Should we do some follow up?

00:07:48 ◼   ► That was a wicked reference you were making there.

00:07:52 ◼   ► We were defining gravity for a moment.

00:07:54 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:07:55 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:07:55 ◼   ► You wanna handle follow up?

00:08:00 ◼   ► This is weird.

00:08:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I can do follow up.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Okay.

00:08:05 ◼   ► I'll drive through follow up.

00:08:06 ◼   ► So Apple Watch plus emergency calls.

00:08:09 ◼   ► So y'all were talking about like going for a run

00:08:11 ◼   ► and leaving your phone behind,

00:08:12 ◼   ► something I know that you do quite often.

00:08:15 ◼   ► And a gradient Doug wrote in,

00:08:18 ◼   ► "Isn't it the case with the cellular Apple Watch

00:08:21 ◼   ► "that you can call emergency services

00:08:23 ◼   ► "even if you don't pay a monthly fee

00:08:25 ◼   ► "to your cellular provider?"

00:08:28 ◼   ► So in doing some homework for this,

00:08:30 ◼   ► I'll tell you it's actually kind of confusing,

00:08:32 ◼   ► but Apple says that emergency SOS

00:08:36 ◼   ► requires a cellular connection on the Apple Watch

00:08:40 ◼   ► or wifi calling with an internet connection

00:08:44 ◼   ► from a nearby iPhone.

00:08:46 ◼   ► So I think I know what this is referring to.

00:08:49 ◼   ► So legally in the US at least,

00:08:51 ◼   ► I can't speak for other countries,

00:08:53 ◼   ► but in the US legally,

00:08:55 ◼   ► if you have a device that has a cellular radio in it,

00:08:59 ◼   ► it needs to be able to call 911 essentially.

00:09:03 ◼   ► Right.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Even if, I mean, basically even if it's not,

00:09:07 ◼   ► doesn't have an active plan on it,

00:09:09 ◼   ► but the real reason that that law is there

00:09:11 ◼   ► is so if you're in an area like my house,

00:09:14 ◼   ► honestly, my house is like this,

00:09:16 ◼   ► where you have Verizon and you come to my house,

00:09:19 ◼   ► guess what?

00:09:20 ◼   ► You're not getting a signal at my house.

00:09:21 ◼   ► My house has no Verizon or T-Mobile,

00:09:23 ◼   ► it only has AT&T and you have to walk like down the block

00:09:26 ◼   ► and then the Verizon shows up.

00:09:27 ◼   ► So if you're in a place or you're just out,

00:09:29 ◼   ► you're in the woods somewhere,

00:09:30 ◼   ► but there is one cell tower.

00:09:32 ◼   ► So it's not, you don't have to go to satellite.

00:09:34 ◼   ► You don't have to fall back to satellite.

00:09:35 ◼   ► And this is the difference.

00:09:36 ◼   ► If you're looking at your phone and it says AT&T,

00:09:38 ◼   ► you're like, "Oh, I'm on AT&T."

00:09:40 ◼   ► And then you go out further into the woods

00:09:42 ◼   ► and it says emergency SOS,

00:09:44 ◼   ► but it doesn't say satellite.

00:09:45 ◼   ► And then you go further out into the woods

00:09:47 ◼   ► and it shows the satellite.

00:09:48 ◼   ► That interim step, it can see a cell tower.

00:09:52 ◼   ► It just can't see your cell tower.

00:09:54 ◼   ► And by law, if you need to call 911,

00:09:59 ◼   ► the fact that you're not a T-Mobile subscriber

00:10:02 ◼   ► is not gonna get in the way of saving your life.

00:10:04 ◼   ► Right, it will roam to AT&T to make the call effectively.

00:10:09 ◼   ► So what I don't know is,

00:10:10 ◼   ► so the Apple Watch absolutely has to do that,

00:10:12 ◼   ► I think, legally.

00:10:13 ◼   ► You have to be able to make an emergency call

00:10:15 ◼   ► from a cellular Apple Watch, even if you don't have a plan.

00:10:18 ◼   ► Here's the thing though.

00:10:20 ◼   ► I'm not sure whether if you fall

00:10:24 ◼   ► and you have the automatic fall detection,

00:10:28 ◼   ► do I need to call for help thing if it calls 911

00:10:33 ◼   ► in that case or not?

00:10:35 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:10:36 ◼   ► 'Cause that's a specific feature of fall detection.

00:10:39 ◼   ► I would hope that it would, but I honestly don't know.

00:10:42 ◼   ► And the reason I mentioned this in the scenario is,

00:10:45 ◼   ► not everything is a 911 call.

00:10:48 ◼   ► I guess, when I fell, I fell and bruised my ribs

00:10:51 ◼   ► while running a couple of years ago.

00:10:53 ◼   ► And I didn't call 911, I called my wife and I said,

00:10:57 ◼   ► "I fell, I bruised my ribs.

00:10:59 ◼   ► "I think that's all it is.

00:11:01 ◼   ► "I can walk, I didn't hit my head.

00:11:03 ◼   ► "I wanted to let you know,

00:11:04 ◼   ► "but I'm just gonna walk home and go to the ER."

00:11:07 ◼   ► And that's what I did.

00:11:08 ◼   ► So that's a call that you wanna be able to make,

00:11:12 ◼   ► which is why I feel like

00:11:13 ◼   ► if you're gonna have a cellular Apple Watch,

00:11:14 ◼   ► you should probably put it on your plan.

00:11:16 ◼   ► That's not a 911 call,

00:11:17 ◼   ► but I think it's true that maybe somebody can write in,

00:11:21 ◼   ► we'll have future follow-up about this.

00:11:22 ◼   ► Nothing like follow-up about follow-up about,

00:11:25 ◼   ► that's the best.

00:11:27 ◼   ► It's finally aged follow-up times two,

00:11:30 ◼   ► but I don't know whether the fall detection

00:11:32 ◼   ► triggers it or not.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Yeah, Apple's documentation is a little confusing there.

00:11:38 ◼   ► When I experienced the,

00:11:40 ◼   ► you've been in a car accident and your device is calling 911,

00:11:44 ◼   ► my phone and watch were with me

00:11:46 ◼   ► and the watch was going off, right?

00:11:49 ◼   ► 'Cause it's on your person.

00:11:50 ◼   ► And if the car crash detection,

00:11:52 ◼   ► it tries to get your attention

00:11:54 ◼   ► and you basically have to stop it from calling.

00:11:58 ◼   ► Right, yeah, which I had to do when I fell,

00:12:01 ◼   ► when I was running, I had to say, no, no, no, please.

00:12:03 ◼   ► Well, actually it was a moment of like,

00:12:05 ◼   ► well, I didn't hit my head, so I'm gonna say no to this.

00:12:08 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm conscious and I understand what's going on.

00:12:11 ◼   ► But yeah, otherwise it triggers.

00:12:14 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:12:15 ◼   ► These are all weirdly overlapping features

00:12:18 ◼   ► and that's even before you get to the satellite stuff.

00:12:21 ◼   ► Right, because that's my other question is

00:12:22 ◼   ► if you take a big fall with your iPhone

00:12:25 ◼   ► when you're in satellite land,

00:12:26 ◼   ► does it do an emergency satellite transmission then?

00:12:31 ◼   ► I don't know if it does.

00:12:33 ◼   ► Oh, you would have to hold it up to the sky

00:12:35 ◼   ► so you probably can.

00:12:37 ◼   ► It's, yeah, you're right.

00:12:38 ◼   ► They all overlap in weird ways,

00:12:40 ◼   ► but it's complicated.

00:12:45 ◼   ► David Schaub in our chat room

00:12:46 ◼   ► is just pasted in an Apple support link

00:12:48 ◼   ► with the one word description, complicated.

00:12:51 ◼   ► It's complicated is the answer here.

00:12:54 ◼   ► Yeah, just like Avril Lavigne said.

00:12:57 ◼   ► But it's good to--

00:12:59 ◼   ► Come on, you just let that go by?

00:13:01 ◼   ► The people on the YouTube version will see me

00:13:05 ◼   ► give you a look.

00:13:06 ◼   ► I'm just gonna let it go by though.

00:13:10 ◼   ► Yeah, anyway, so that's the deal here is yes,

00:13:12 ◼   ► if you buy a cellular Apple Watch

00:13:14 ◼   ► and don't put a plan on it

00:13:15 ◼   ► and you're somewhere and you need help,

00:13:16 ◼   ► you will be able to call emergency services,

00:13:19 ◼   ► at least in the US and probably in a bunch of other countries

00:13:21 ◼   ► that have those rules.

00:13:22 ◼   ► But that's it, just emergency services.

00:13:24 ◼   ► You can't place an emergency phone call to your mom.

00:13:27 ◼   ► That is not allowed.

00:13:28 ◼   ► That's that you're getting around.

00:13:30 ◼   ► You're gonna make a collect call to my mom?

00:13:32 ◼   ► No, you can't call 911.

00:13:34 ◼   ► That's all you can do.

00:13:36 ◼   ► And at least in the US, that's how it works.

00:13:38 ◼   ► But it's a good point that Doug mentions

00:13:42 ◼   ► and I think it's worth people knowing

00:13:44 ◼   ► that that's what that interim SOS only,

00:13:48 ◼   ► emergency only mode means.

00:13:50 ◼   ► It's like just because you don't have cell signal

00:13:52 ◼   ► doesn't mean you can't call for help if you need help.

00:13:55 ◼   ► Right.

00:13:56 ◼   ► The answer is just don't fall down.

00:14:00 ◼   ► Do what you can.

00:14:01 ◼   ► That is my advice.

00:14:02 ◼   ► My best advice is don't fall down.

00:14:06 ◼   ► We're not doctors, but it seems good.

00:14:08 ◼   ► I wanted to see, Ken, check in with you.

00:14:11 ◼   ► You wrote this piece and y'all spoke about it.

00:14:13 ◼   ► The Mac is the model.

00:14:15 ◼   ► How has response been to that?

00:14:16 ◼   ► That piece has been in the world now,

00:14:18 ◼   ► like I don't know, a couple of weeks, 10 days or something.

00:14:20 ◼   ► How has that been?

00:14:22 ◼   ► I think it's actually been better than I thought.

00:14:24 ◼   ► I think anytime you are in the business of writing about

00:14:28 ◼   ► and having opinions about Apple, you know this,

00:14:31 ◼   ► criticizing Apple will always get people

00:14:34 ◼   ► who will come out of the woodwork to say,

00:14:36 ◼   ► but no, Apple is great

00:14:38 ◼   ► and everything Apple does is fine, right?

00:14:39 ◼   ► Like there are people who really are,

00:14:42 ◼   ► they only want people to be cheerleaders for Apple,

00:14:46 ◼   ► which I've never really been.

00:14:48 ◼   ► I feel like I advocate for the users,

00:14:50 ◼   ► not for the company.

00:14:51 ◼   ► The company has got a lot of money

00:14:52 ◼   ► and it doesn't need my help,

00:14:54 ◼   ► but more positive than I thought.

00:14:56 ◼   ► I mean, there was definitely some pushback from some people.

00:14:59 ◼   ► I think maybe one of the reasons it was muted

00:15:01 ◼   ► is that the whole point of how I wrote the article

00:15:03 ◼   ► was to say Apple itself has solved this problem.

00:15:05 ◼   ► And so Apple has its own solution that it built for the Mac.

00:15:09 ◼   ► So that I feel like made it harder to make the argument

00:15:13 ◼   ► that it's impossible for Apple to do this

00:15:15 ◼   ► because Apple literally did it.

00:15:17 ◼   ► That was my whole point.

00:15:19 ◼   ► I've definitely heard from people though.

00:15:21 ◼   ► And like, I understand the pushback that I've gotten

00:15:24 ◼   ► that I expected, but I think is more nuanced

00:15:27 ◼   ► is people saying,

00:15:28 ◼   ► but I like Apple being in complete control of the platform.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Like that's basically the comment that I thought is,

00:15:36 ◼   ► I think it's the most interesting is I like it here.

00:15:39 ◼   ► I like it in the Wald's garden.

00:15:40 ◼   ► I like Apple having all the payment systems.

00:15:43 ◼   ► I like all of that.

00:15:45 ◼   ► And I understand that.

00:15:46 ◼   ► My problem with that is,

00:15:48 ◼   ► my argument is that you don't have to change

00:15:51 ◼   ► unless you want to,

00:15:52 ◼   ► but also that you may not even know

00:15:55 ◼   ► some of the things you're missing

00:15:56 ◼   ► because Apple has complete control

00:15:58 ◼   ► over the entire market, right?

00:16:01 ◼   ► There are things, there are apps,

00:16:04 ◼   ► there are app experiences,

00:16:06 ◼   ► there are website links that can't be made.

00:16:09 ◼   ► And so you don't even know what the experience would be.

00:16:11 ◼   ► I guess I got a version of that was the,

00:16:13 ◼   ► but Android already does this, so why?

00:16:15 ◼   ► And my answer there is I'm an iOS user

00:16:19 ◼   ► and telling me to leave the platform that I like

00:16:21 ◼   ► because I don't like their policy.

00:16:23 ◼   ► Like that's, I mean, okay, but that's not my point.

00:16:26 ◼   ► My point is that all computing platforms

00:16:29 ◼   ► should have some level of the owner of the product

00:16:32 ◼   ► being able to install software on it and not the other way.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Not having the maker of the product dictate

00:16:38 ◼   ► what goes on that computer essentially

00:16:41 ◼   ► that can run arbitrary third-party software.

00:16:43 ◼   ► Plus there's the issue of,

00:16:45 ◼   ► and we know a lot of these people,

00:16:46 ◼   ► people who have invested their knowledge and skillset

00:16:49 ◼   ► into developing for Apple platforms.

00:16:52 ◼   ► And you could say, well, that was their mistake.

00:16:53 ◼   ► It's like, okay, but a lot of them came from the Mac,

00:16:57 ◼   ► but they're also on iOS.

00:16:59 ◼   ► And I would argue they are a large portion

00:17:02 ◼   ► of the reason that the iPhone was successful, right?

00:17:04 ◼   ► 'Cause they're the ones who developed apps in the app store.

00:17:07 ◼   ► And they're captives because you can't take your iOS app

00:17:10 ◼   ► and run it on Android.

00:17:11 ◼   ► You can't, it's not the same skillset.

00:17:13 ◼   ► It's not the same language.

00:17:15 ◼   ► It's not the same APIs.

00:17:16 ◼   ► And so they're kind of trapped.

00:17:18 ◼   ► And yeah, it's easy to say, well,

00:17:20 ◼   ► just reeducate and become a Java developer

00:17:22 ◼   ► and go write Android apps

00:17:23 ◼   ► where there's no market for it anyway,

00:17:25 ◼   ► or just suck it up and make your money from Apple.

00:17:28 ◼   ► They'll take their 15 or 30% and deal with it.

00:17:30 ◼   ► But like, my point is those are people saying,

00:17:34 ◼   ► yeah, just take what you can get

00:17:35 ◼   ► instead of me trying to be a little idealistic here

00:17:37 ◼   ► and say, it's wrong, it's wrong.

00:17:39 ◼   ► And that was my point.

00:17:40 ◼   ► So not as vociferous feedback as I thought I would get,

00:17:44 ◼   ► even though that's definitely out there.

00:17:46 ◼   ► - I think that also speaks to the overall feelings

00:17:50 ◼   ► in the community about the app store, right?

00:17:52 ◼   ► Like Apple's just, they've lost so much goodwill

00:17:55 ◼   ► over these issues.

00:17:56 ◼   ► - And it's their own fault, right?

00:17:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:17:59 ◼   ► - It could have been, right?

00:18:00 ◼   ► Like they could exert,

00:18:01 ◼   ► this is the thing that I think a lot of us feel

00:18:03 ◼   ► is they could have exerted an amount of control

00:18:07 ◼   ► and skimmed an amount of money out of the app store

00:18:09 ◼   ► while addressing more of the issues

00:18:12 ◼   ► that really set people off and it would have been fine.

00:18:16 ◼   ► This is the whole argument of like,

00:18:17 ◼   ► well, why don't they wanna compete?

00:18:20 ◼   ► 'Cause I think they could compete really strongly.

00:18:22 ◼   ► And the answer is, 'cause it's better to just not compete

00:18:24 ◼   ► than to even to be a strong competitor

00:18:27 ◼   ► who would take the lion's share of the revenue

00:18:29 ◼   ► from the market, the lion's share isn't all of it,

00:18:32 ◼   ► which is sort of what they wanna do.

00:18:34 ◼   ► But that is the point that I thought,

00:18:37 ◼   ► the point about like, I don't want it to be complicated.

00:18:40 ◼   ► Like I get it, but that is sort of my point

00:18:43 ◼   ► about the Mac model is, by default,

00:18:45 ◼   ► you can't run unsigned software on the Mac.

00:18:48 ◼   ► You have to go through lots of hoops to get there.

00:18:50 ◼   ► And an administrator or a user can set it

00:18:54 ◼   ► to only run from the Mac app store,

00:18:55 ◼   ► which I would assume in any circumstance

00:18:57 ◼   ► would probably be the default on any future version of iOS.

00:19:00 ◼   ► I don't think it would be particularly different,

00:19:03 ◼   ► but it frustrates me, but I understand it

00:19:08 ◼   ► when people sort of say, but I don't want it,

00:19:10 ◼   ► so it shouldn't happen.

00:19:11 ◼   ► Because the point is other people might want it,

00:19:15 ◼   ► and I don't love it when people say, well, I'm okay,

00:19:19 ◼   ► so it doesn't matter what other people feel.

00:19:21 ◼   ► Like that's not a great impulse.

00:19:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, if they open it up, it's just an option, right?

00:19:26 ◼   ► You're not, like with the Mac, right?

00:19:29 ◼   ► Again, going back to the Mac as the model,

00:19:31 ◼   ► if you wanna live just within the Mac app store, you can.

00:19:36 ◼   ► Now, it's not a perfect analogy

00:19:38 ◼   ► because there's a lot of software on the Mac

00:19:42 ◼   ► that's not available in the Mac app store.

00:19:44 ◼   ► But again, you have the option.

00:19:46 ◼   ► For other, yeah, for lots of reasons, actually.

00:19:50 ◼   ► But yeah, I just, I love the piece.

00:19:52 ◼   ► I really thought about it a lot

00:19:54 ◼   ► and just wanted to kinda see how it was.

00:19:58 ◼   ► 'Cause sometimes it feels like these sorts of topics

00:20:00 ◼   ► are potentially spicy.

00:20:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, it was, I mean, I had that moment

00:20:05 ◼   ► where I was thinking about it and I got frustrated.

00:20:07 ◼   ► I was like, I gotta write this sometime.

00:20:08 ◼   ► And then when I was writing it, I'm like, well,

00:20:10 ◼   ► I believe this.

00:20:12 ◼   ► I believe that it's sort of fundamentally

00:20:14 ◼   ► that if we buy $1,000 plus computing devices,

00:20:17 ◼   ► we should be able to put software on them.

00:20:19 ◼   ► And that if you're somebody

00:20:20 ◼   ► who has a skillset writing software,

00:20:23 ◼   ► you shouldn't be at the whims

00:20:25 ◼   ► and under the complete control of the platform owner.

00:20:27 ◼   ► It just feels wrong.

00:20:29 ◼   ► And I know that that's a weird, squishy, emotional

00:20:32 ◼   ► and moral argument.

00:20:33 ◼   ► But I do really legitimately believe it,

00:20:36 ◼   ► that it just, it feels wrong.

00:20:38 ◼   ► Like not, leaving the business model stuff aside,

00:20:41 ◼   ► it just feels wrong for that to be the case.

00:20:44 ◼   ► That this is, I don't believe that computers

00:20:47 ◼   ► and phones and iPads are computers

00:20:49 ◼   ► should be entirely closed platforms

00:20:52 ◼   ► that are dictated by the company that makes the OS.

00:20:55 ◼   ► I just, I think that that is wrong.

00:20:58 ◼   ► And of course, what's gonna happen

00:21:00 ◼   ► is Apple's not gonna say, "You're right, Jason."

00:21:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:03 ◼   ► "I apologize, we'll change our business model."

00:21:05 ◼   ► What's gonna happen is,

00:21:07 ◼   ► what is already starting to happen in the EU,

00:21:09 ◼   ► which is regulators will say,

00:21:11 ◼   ► "No, you can't do it this way."

00:21:13 ◼   ► And the good news here, I guess, in a way,

00:21:16 ◼   ► is that Apple has already built this other model

00:21:19 ◼   ► and they have already used it.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Now the bad news is, I mentioned,

00:21:23 ◼   ► I mentioned notarization in the piece

00:21:26 ◼   ► and mentioned that there was one example of Apple

00:21:28 ◼   ► using kind of notarization as a weapon in the EU.

00:21:31 ◼   ► And the very week I wrote that,

00:21:33 ◼   ► there were then some new cases

00:21:35 ◼   ► where Apple used notarization as a weapon in the EU.

00:21:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:38 ◼   ► And I mean, I'm not a European lawyer again,

00:21:41 ◼   ► but it feels to me like they are not gonna be able

00:21:45 ◼   ► to make that work.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Because what they basically said is,

00:21:47 ◼   ► "We've created a new open system called notarization.

00:21:49 ◼   ► "And while it involves us approving everything,

00:21:51 ◼   ► "we're not gonna use it for evil."

00:21:53 ◼   ► And then immediately they said,

00:21:55 ◼   ► "Oh, but we don't like this app,

00:21:56 ◼   ► "so it won't be notarized by us."

00:21:58 ◼   ► Which is de facto app store outside the app store.

00:22:01 ◼   ► I can't see how the European Commission

00:22:04 ◼   ► will ever allow that kind of behavior.

00:22:07 ◼   ► It seems to be in complete opposition to the whole idea.

00:22:11 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:22:12 ◼   ► But what really bothers me is, it tarnishes the Mac model.

00:22:15 ◼   ► Because what it suggests is that that second ring

00:22:19 ◼   ► of software, which is checked by Apple and signed by Apple,

00:22:22 ◼   ► is going to be used as the first ring,

00:22:24 ◼   ► as an approval system for apps that Apple doesn't like.

00:22:29 ◼   ► Not to protect users,

00:22:31 ◼   ► but because Apple has just decided they don't want it.

00:22:33 ◼   ► And the example that I've given a couple of times is,

00:22:35 ◼   ► if Apple, if third-party apps could run outside

00:22:38 ◼   ► of the app store, we'd have macOS running on iPad.

00:22:42 ◼   ► Because all the emulators would appear,

00:22:44 ◼   ► and you'd be able to run Linux,

00:22:45 ◼   ► and you'd be able to run Windows,

00:22:47 ◼   ► and presumably at that point you'd be able to run macOS.

00:22:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, macOS is just right there.

00:22:51 ◼   ► - Since it's literally the same hardware,

00:22:54 ◼   ► you would be able to do that.

00:22:56 ◼   ► And I'm pretty sure that's why you can't,

00:22:58 ◼   ► is 'cause Apple doesn't want to do that.

00:23:01 ◼   ► And Apple wants either the option to do it themselves,

00:23:03 ◼   ► or to have nobody do it.

00:23:04 ◼   ► Like, I think that that's the motivator,

00:23:06 ◼   ► but I really don't like the idea that,

00:23:09 ◼   ► even in a system that was open, like in the EU,

00:23:12 ◼   ► where there's theoretically this other pathway,

00:23:14 ◼   ► if you tried to submit VMware or Parallels for iPad

00:23:19 ◼   ► to notarize, to get into a marketplace in the EU,

00:23:24 ◼   ► I feel like Apple would just refuse to notarize it,

00:23:27 ◼   ► and that's not great, right?

00:23:29 ◼   ► Like, that's completely contrary.

00:23:30 ◼   ► So, I don't know.

00:23:32 ◼   ► I think in the end that at least a large portion of this

00:23:35 ◼   ► is going to come to pass,

00:23:36 ◼   ► because I just don't think regulators,

00:23:40 ◼   ► in many parts of the world at least, will do it.

00:23:43 ◼   ► And the only question is, will the regulators,

00:23:46 ◼   ► will it be enough of a fragmentation

00:23:48 ◼   ► that Apple just says, "Okay, we give up.

00:23:50 ◼   ► "We don't want to have two completely different models

00:23:52 ◼   ► "for what we do worldwide.

00:23:54 ◼   ► "We're gonna just build this single model."

00:23:56 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:23:57 ◼   ► I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

00:23:59 ◼   ► - No, me neither.

00:24:00 ◼   ► You know what I can get my hopes up about, though?

00:24:03 ◼   ► - Oh, that's a great segue.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Is it the upgradees?

00:24:06 ◼   ► - It is.

00:24:07 ◼   ► It is the 11th annual upgradees.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Tell people how they can nominate.

00:24:10 ◼   ► - All right, well, so the way this works is,

00:24:12 ◼   ► you send in your suggestions, and they are votes,

00:24:14 ◼   ► but they're also suggestions

00:24:15 ◼   ► for things that Mike and I can look at.

00:24:17 ◼   ► And then Mike will compile the results

00:24:19 ◼   ► using a fancy shortcut that's really just a Python script

00:24:23 ◼   ► that I wrapped in a shortcut to make Mike feel better.

00:24:26 ◼   ► And 'cause Mike's resistance, you know this,

00:24:29 ◼   ► Mike's resistance to technical things is fascinating, right?

00:24:31 ◼   ► Like, yeah, I pushed him on this, and I was like,

00:24:33 ◼   ► "Oh, you could do a shortcut.

00:24:34 ◼   ► "Oh, there's a Python script."

00:24:35 ◼   ► And he's like, "No, no."

00:24:36 ◼   ► And I finally, I wrapped a Python script

00:24:38 ◼   ► inside the shortcut and sent it to him,

00:24:41 ◼   ► and then he saw it running, and he was like,

00:24:44 ◼   ► "Oh, okay, yes."

00:24:45 ◼   ► And now he loves it.

00:24:46 ◼   ► It's the best thing ever.

00:24:46 ◼   ► But anyway, so he will compile,

00:24:49 ◼   ► but we want your suggestions.

00:24:50 ◼   ► It will guide us.

00:24:51 ◼   ► We make the final decision.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Sometimes we go with what the upgradeans want.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Sometimes we use that and keep it under advisement.

00:24:57 ◼   ► Sometimes it breaks ties.

00:24:58 ◼   ► And sometimes it makes us go out and do our own research

00:25:01 ◼   ► about these apps that we've never heard of.

00:25:03 ◼   ► And why is everybody raving about this app

00:25:06 ◼   ► that I've never heard of?

00:25:07 ◼   ► And we go check it out, and it's awesome.

00:25:09 ◼   ► So that's great too.

00:25:09 ◼   ► Lots of great reasons to do it.

00:25:11 ◼   ► You don't have to fill out every form

00:25:13 ◼   ► or every item in the form if you don't want to.

00:25:14 ◼   ► It's fine, but we wanna hear from you,

00:25:16 ◼   ► and we wanna know what you liked this year, basically,

00:25:18 ◼   ► and what you are liking.

00:25:20 ◼   ► So go to upgradees.com.

00:25:23 ◼   ► Sorry, upgradees.vote will be where you can vote,

00:25:26 ◼   ► and upgradees.com will show you all of the previous winners.

00:25:29 ◼   ► And you've got a few more days.

00:25:31 ◼   ► You've got 11 more days, so a little more than a week.

00:25:33 ◼   ► But again, don't leave it to the last minute.

00:25:35 ◼   ► Upgradees.vote.

00:25:37 ◼   ► And the official upgradees program will be,

00:25:41 ◼   ► we're gonna record it and release it on December 30th,

00:25:43 ◼   ► right at the end of the year.

00:25:44 ◼   ► That'll be our big happy new year celebration.

00:25:47 ◼   ► It's our favorite stuff.

00:25:48 ◼   ► Nice to go out on a positive note, I think.

00:25:50 ◼   ► - It is, yeah. - I like it.

00:25:52 ◼   ► - And Connected has won two favorite podcast awards,

00:25:55 ◼   ► one away from Lifetime Achievement,

00:25:58 ◼   ► just putting that out there.

00:25:59 ◼   ► - Even though one of the hosts is on upgrade,

00:26:01 ◼   ► somehow that happened.

00:26:02 ◼   ► He recuses himself, sort of,

00:26:03 ◼   ► but I like Connected and Upgrade.

00:26:08 ◼   ► Upgrade never gets votes, by the way.

00:26:10 ◼   ► People should vote for Upgrade as favorite podcast,

00:26:12 ◼   ► 'cause you're listening to Upgrade right now.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Come on, people.

00:26:15 ◼   ► I always like it when Upgrade is third

00:26:16 ◼   ► on the list of favorite podcasts.

00:26:18 ◼   ► It's just like seeing,

00:26:20 ◼   ► I've been seeing all of these overcast shares

00:26:22 ◼   ► of people's podcasts listening,

00:26:24 ◼   ► and the ones that make me laugh.

00:26:26 ◼   ► So many of them are like ATP,

00:26:29 ◼   ► and then maybe the talk show,

00:26:30 ◼   ► and I'm like, "Is Upgrade in there?"

00:26:31 ◼   ► And they're like, "Upgrade's in there.

00:26:32 ◼   ► It's not up at the top for most of them."

00:26:34 ◼   ► But it's like, it's in there.

00:26:36 ◼   ► - It's in there. - And we appreciate that.

00:26:37 ◼   ► I don't need to be number one here.

00:26:38 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:26:39 ◼   ► - It's fine. - It's fine.

00:26:40 ◼   ► - ATP's got home court advantage.

00:26:42 ◼   ► - They really, I mean. - With Evercast, really.

00:26:44 ◼   ► - That is, it's a podcast by the person

00:26:47 ◼   ► who makes the podcast app.

00:26:48 ◼   ► That is about as good as you can.

00:26:49 ◼   ► Talk about your advantages.

00:26:50 ◼   ► Apple would kill for that advantage.

00:26:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, vertical integration, I think is what they call it.

00:26:54 ◼   ► - I think that might be it.

00:26:56 ◼   ► This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by DeleteMe.

00:27:00 ◼   ► We've talked before about how much of your personal data

00:27:02 ◼   ► could be out there on the internet for people to see,

00:27:05 ◼   ► like Stephen Smith's initial,

00:27:07 ◼   ► and how uncomfortable that can make you feel.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Now, Mike tells me, this is Mike Hurley.

00:27:13 ◼   ► Remember him?

00:27:13 ◼   ► He loves DeleteMe. - I do.

00:27:15 ◼   ► - It gives him an extra layer of comfort

00:27:16 ◼   ► for his online privacy.

00:27:17 ◼   ► He knows that DeleteMe is in his corner.

00:27:20 ◼   ► They're making sure to take care of removing his data

00:27:22 ◼   ► from the places he doesn't want it to be.

00:27:24 ◼   ► He even set up a gift subscription of DeleteMe

00:27:27 ◼   ► for his wife recently.

00:27:28 ◼   ► Oh, now that, give the gift of DeleteMe, I love it.

00:27:31 ◼   ► She is also equally excited to see how her reports turn out

00:27:35 ◼   ► to give her more control of her data.

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00:29:14 ◼   ► and Relay.

00:29:15 ◼   ► It's rumor roundup time, Steven.

00:29:19 ◼   ► Yeehaw.

00:29:20 ◼   ► Yeah, there we go.

00:29:22 ◼   ► You're in the spirit.

00:29:23 ◼   ► You got a new horse.

00:29:26 ◼   ► I do.

00:29:26 ◼   ► It's a nice-- Do I?

00:29:28 ◼   ► Nice little brown horse.

00:29:29 ◼   ► I got a mustache, so that counts for something.

00:29:32 ◼   ► That's right, you're basically a cowboy already.

00:29:35 ◼   ► That's right.

00:29:36 ◼   ► Yes, that's true.

00:29:37 ◼   ► ♪ I am titanium ♪

00:29:42 ◼   ► No, well, are you?

00:29:43 ◼   ► I'm not. That's the question, Jason.

00:29:44 ◼   ► Oh, the iPhone 17.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Might it be losing titanium?

00:29:50 ◼   ► It could be.

00:29:51 ◼   ► So there's been this back and forth in the rumors,

00:29:54 ◼   ► which are really my favorite,

00:29:55 ◼   ► is when rumor people are fighting each other.

00:29:58 ◼   ► It's like in Anchorman, you know?

00:30:02 ◼   ► Sure.

00:30:03 ◼   ► And then Mark Gurman comes in with a trident,

00:30:05 ◼   ► kills everybody.

00:30:06 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:30:07 ◼   ► It really went off the rails quickly.

00:30:12 ◼   ► So yeah, so the question is the iPhone 17 Pro

00:30:14 ◼   ► and 17 Pro Max, will they feature titanium,

00:30:17 ◼   ► just like the 15 and 16 Pro line?

00:30:21 ◼   ► And I think it's really interesting.

00:30:22 ◼   ► I love the titanium.

00:30:24 ◼   ► I think, obviously, weighing less is good.

00:30:27 ◼   ► I like that it's not as smudgy like the stainless steel was.

00:30:31 ◼   ► But I just wonder, do people care about this?

00:30:33 ◼   ► I don't think they do.

00:30:37 ◼   ► It's a good question.

00:30:38 ◼   ► So I got a couple titanium thoughts here.

00:30:41 ◼   ► Welcome to our new segment.

00:30:42 ◼   ► I like to call it titanium thoughts.

00:30:44 ◼   ► Titanium thoughts.

00:30:45 ◼   ► I got a titanium phone.

00:30:47 ◼   ► I treated myself to it, or not a titanium phone,

00:30:50 ◼   ► titanium watch.

00:30:51 ◼   ► So the higher, the more expensive watch.

00:30:54 ◼   ► 'Cause I was like, you know what?

00:30:56 ◼   ► Birthdays and anniversaries and stuff,

00:30:58 ◼   ► and I buy presents for Lauren, and sometimes it's jewelry,

00:31:01 ◼   ► and I don't really wear jewelry to speak of,

00:31:05 ◼   ► at least not at the level where I'm, you know,

00:31:08 ◼   ► buy an earring, buy earrings by a ring, buy a necklace.

00:31:13 ◼   ► It's nice, but I'm not into that.

00:31:16 ◼   ► And I thought, well, what is the equivalent?

00:31:17 ◼   ► What could I ask for?

00:31:18 ◼   ► And it was, I thought, oh, you know,

00:31:20 ◼   ► I'm gonna treat myself to a nicer Apple Watch.

00:31:22 ◼   ► And I got the black titanium Apple Watch.

00:31:25 ◼   ► Now I have the Series 10,

00:31:28 ◼   ► and it's the black aluminum Series 10.

00:31:30 ◼   ► And Steven, I could not tell the difference,

00:31:33 ◼   ► if you asked me, between aluminum and titanium.

00:31:38 ◼   ► It's all mental.

00:31:39 ◼   ► I mean, it was really nice, but this one is really nice too.

00:31:44 ◼   ► And this is the thing about the iPhone.

00:31:47 ◼   ► Like, I like the idea of a lighter frame.

00:31:49 ◼   ► I like the idea of a lighter phone, lighter watch,

00:31:53 ◼   ► all this, like, great.

00:31:54 ◼   ► And maybe somebody out there can say, oh yes,

00:31:57 ◼   ► but you don't understand.

00:32:00 ◼   ► It was like, the stainless steel was heavy is the problem.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Not that, not that, aluminum and titanium

00:32:05 ◼   ► are both pretty light.

00:32:05 ◼   ► Stainless steel was very heavy.

00:32:07 ◼   ► So if they go to aluminum instead of titanium,

00:32:08 ◼   ► I don't think it'll make that much of a difference.

00:32:11 ◼   ► I do think that Apple brilliantly used titanium

00:32:16 ◼   ► for at least two years as a major differentiator

00:32:20 ◼   ► on products that didn't change very much, right?

00:32:22 ◼   ► I mean, like, I see all those ads.

00:32:24 ◼   ► There's like the AT&T ad where the AT&T lady is like,

00:32:29 ◼   ► it's the new iPhone with titanium.

00:32:31 ◼   ► And I think, who cares, right?

00:32:33 ◼   ► But I think it was pretty effective as a,

00:32:36 ◼   ► as just, it's different and doesn't it sound cool.

00:32:39 ◼   ► And so, I mean, fine, but in some ways

00:32:43 ◼   ► they were really saying not heavy, like stainless.

00:32:46 ◼   ► And so, you know, I don't know.

00:32:48 ◼   ► I don't know, what do you think?

00:32:50 ◼   ► I think the visual sort of material difference

00:32:53 ◼   ► maybe makes more of a difference in other markets

00:32:56 ◼   ► than the US, right?

00:32:57 ◼   ► We talked about this a lot.

00:32:59 ◼   ► When the phone changes shape or design,

00:33:02 ◼   ► they'll have kind of a big year in China

00:33:03 ◼   ► and some other markets because that's valued more highly

00:33:06 ◼   ► than it is here, which I find really interesting.

00:33:09 ◼   ► But I think speaking about the American market,

00:33:12 ◼   ► I agree with you, the way, like,

00:33:14 ◼   ► moving from stainless steel was the big change.

00:33:18 ◼   ► And it is remarkable if you pick up a stainless steel phone,

00:33:22 ◼   ► like it really does feel heavier.

00:33:24 ◼   ► But most people, you know, slapping their phones in cases

00:33:28 ◼   ► so that they never see those rails.

00:33:30 ◼   ► They don't really care about the smudginess maybe

00:33:32 ◼   ► the way some of us do.

00:33:34 ◼   ► And so, you know, I think if they were to go to aluminum

00:33:39 ◼   ► on the pro phones, like, I don't think it's that,

00:33:41 ◼   ► I don't think it's that big of a deal.

00:33:46 ◼   ► You know, I think people would, it would be a cycle, right?

00:33:51 ◼   ► And then they would just still sell a bajillion phones.

00:33:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think, especially if there are other design

00:33:56 ◼   ► changes, they'll use those to sell them.

00:33:58 ◼   ► And if it's aluminum and they'll just say it's lighter,

00:34:00 ◼   ► and I don't think there are gonna be a lot of people

00:34:01 ◼   ► who feel like, I'm so betrayed that there's no titanium.

00:34:04 ◼   ► Right? - Right.

00:34:06 ◼   ► - I mean, there'll probably be like a handful

00:34:08 ◼   ► of super titanium fans who are like, how dare you?

00:34:11 ◼   ► I only buy things made of titanium.

00:34:13 ◼   ► But otherwise, I think an aluminum frame is fine.

00:34:17 ◼   ► I think it's funny, 'cause this is a style issue too, right?

00:34:20 ◼   ► It's like Apple felt like aluminum was light,

00:34:22 ◼   ► but you know, kind of boring and that the stainless,

00:34:25 ◼   ► it was like, no stainless, it's surgical stainless steel.

00:34:28 ◼   ► It's beautiful and heavy and weighty.

00:34:30 ◼   ► And that was like a selling point.

00:34:32 ◼   ► And then they're like, it's too heavy.

00:34:34 ◼   ► Titanium is better.

00:34:36 ◼   ► And they put that on there as really, yeah, like you said,

00:34:38 ◼   ► it's a cycle, it's fashion, it's,

00:34:40 ◼   ► there's no one right answer.

00:34:43 ◼   ► So they keep kind of moving around as they need to,

00:34:47 ◼   ► or as they feel they need to.

00:34:49 ◼   ► And I think that's okay.

00:34:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think people buy the Profones for the cameras.

00:34:54 ◼   ► Right?

00:34:55 ◼   ► Like that's why people upgrade.

00:34:56 ◼   ► Maybe the screen, but I think mostly the cameras.

00:34:59 ◼   ► And as much as I like titanium and I really like this phone

00:35:04 ◼   ► and the phone right before it,

00:35:05 ◼   ► like it wouldn't be a big deal to me

00:35:06 ◼   ► if they went to aluminum and it would make the colors

00:35:11 ◼   ► our conversation even more awkward, you know?

00:35:14 ◼   ► But that's fine.

00:35:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

00:35:18 ◼   ► I feel like they can make colors on anything now,

00:35:20 ◼   ► but certainly on aluminum, we know that they can

00:35:22 ◼   ► and they're good at it.

00:35:23 ◼   ► And it's, you know, it's affordable and light

00:35:26 ◼   ► and it's a great material, right?

00:35:28 ◼   ► So they should do whatever they need to do.

00:35:30 ◼   ► I think it's interesting to say, to wonder,

00:35:34 ◼   ► what do the people who designed the iPhone

00:35:37 ◼   ► and the materials used in it think about the style choices?

00:35:41 ◼   ► Right?

00:35:42 ◼   ► Because like if they had their druthers

00:35:44 ◼   ► and they didn't care about selling titanium or stainless,

00:35:48 ◼   ► would they always use aluminum?

00:35:50 ◼   ► And were those directives sort of, let's shake it up?

00:35:53 ◼   ► Or were they bottom up where they're like,

00:35:55 ◼   ► we want to try titanium.

00:35:57 ◼   ► And the execs are like, yeah, let's do it.

00:35:58 ◼   ► We can market that.

00:35:59 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:01 ◼   ► I would like to believe that it's the engineers

00:36:03 ◼   ► sort of saying, why don't we try a different material?

00:36:05 ◼   ► But I do wonder if it's actually, you know,

00:36:08 ◼   ► them being kind of prodded by people to say,

00:36:10 ◼   ► well, why don't we try this other thing?

00:36:11 ◼   ► Why don't we try another material?

00:36:13 ◼   ► Because, you know, the fact is,

00:36:14 ◼   ► it's not just a utilitarian block.

00:36:16 ◼   ► It is a device that needs to be marketed

00:36:20 ◼   ► and it has a fashion element to it.

00:36:21 ◼   ► And that's part of the design too.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Is it the designers who say, you know,

00:36:25 ◼   ► let's do titanium this year?

00:36:26 ◼   ► And the engineers are like, okay, we can do that.

00:36:29 ◼   ► I don't know what the push and pull is there.

00:36:32 ◼   ► And if the engineers had their druthers,

00:36:33 ◼   ► they would just always use aluminum or whatever.

00:36:35 ◼   ► I honestly don't know.

00:36:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, and this year, notably,

00:36:39 ◼   ► they are using aluminum inside the phone.

00:36:42 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:36:42 ◼   ► - For that better heat dissipation.

00:36:44 ◼   ► That was an issue with the 15 Pro.

00:36:46 ◼   ► So yeah, it's super interesting.

00:36:48 ◼   ► I'm sure there's always that tension

00:36:49 ◼   ► between people making the devices

00:36:52 ◼   ► and the people selling the devices.

00:36:54 ◼   ► It's also interesting that the Apple Watch, right,

00:36:56 ◼   ► stainless steel at the beginning was the nice material

00:36:59 ◼   ► once they got rid of the gold.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Like we don't talk about that one.

00:37:01 ◼   ► And then they moved to titanium

00:37:04 ◼   ► and now it's aluminum and titanium.

00:37:06 ◼   ► I think the steel is still available on the Hermes watch,

00:37:09 ◼   ► but you know, they've moved away from steel there.

00:37:13 ◼   ► And I can tell you on the Apple Watch,

00:37:14 ◼   ► it made a huge weight difference

00:37:15 ◼   ► 'cause I wore a stainless steel watch for years

00:37:18 ◼   ► and then went to the titanium

00:37:20 ◼   ► whenever that was the series, six or seven or whatever.

00:37:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, Lauren had a, her first Apple Watch was stainless.

00:37:25 ◼   ► And again, it was sort of me being nice,

00:37:27 ◼   ► but then she went to the aluminum and was like,

00:37:29 ◼   ► oh, it's so much lighter.

00:37:30 ◼   ► I like, it was stainless was nice and all,

00:37:32 ◼   ► but like the aluminum one is,

00:37:34 ◼   ► I think that's Apple's problem is that the truth is

00:37:38 ◼   ► that on the Apple Watch, the aluminum is the best.

00:37:41 ◼   ► It's just the best 'cause it's so light.

00:37:43 ◼   ► - I think the only little like niggle I have with that

00:37:47 ◼   ► is that the aluminum gets the ion glass

00:37:50 ◼   ► and you get sapphire with the nicer metal

00:37:53 ◼   ► and the sapphire displays do hold up better.

00:37:55 ◼   ► - I agree, but they could,

00:37:59 ◼   ► like there's nothing stopping them from making aluminum

00:38:01 ◼   ► on all the Apple Watch models with the nicer glass, right?

00:38:04 ◼   ► Or the higher end model of aluminum

00:38:05 ◼   ► comes with the nicer glass.

00:38:07 ◼   ► They've decided to differentiate based on metal,

00:38:09 ◼   ► but I guess what I'm saying is they could just all be

00:38:12 ◼   ► aluminum and it probably would be fine,

00:38:14 ◼   ► except the reason I bought a titanium Apple Watch

00:38:17 ◼   ► is like I wanted to treat myself and get something nicer.

00:38:19 ◼   ► And it was nice, but aluminum is nice.

00:38:22 ◼   ► And I'm not sure there's much difference in between them,

00:38:24 ◼   ► at least for me, there isn't.

00:38:26 ◼   ► So we'll see how my series 10 holds up.

00:38:29 ◼   ► It's doing great so far.

00:38:31 ◼   ► I'm liking it.

00:38:32 ◼   ► It's nice.

00:38:33 ◼   ► I went like three years without an Apple Watch update.

00:38:35 ◼   ► And so for me, it's so much thinner

00:38:39 ◼   ► and I actually, I can see how much thinner it is.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Just it's not bulging above my wrist

00:38:45 ◼   ► like the old sensor did.

00:38:47 ◼   ► It's really nice.

00:38:47 ◼   ► And I got the black aluminum, so it's all shiny.

00:38:50 ◼   ► And so the shininess matches the shininess of the glass.

00:38:54 ◼   ► And it's a really good look.

00:38:55 ◼   ► So I'm liking it.

00:38:57 ◼   ► I got this watch at in Memphis.

00:39:00 ◼   ► You did, you lost it on my couch.

00:39:02 ◼   ► I did, I did.

00:39:04 ◼   ► Good times, good times.

00:39:05 ◼   ► It was good times.

00:39:07 ◼   ► All right, I wanted to talk.

00:39:09 ◼   ► It was Thanksgiving last week.

00:39:10 ◼   ► And what happens, I think for a lot of our listeners

00:39:15 ◼   ► and for us is when you visit with family,

00:39:19 ◼   ► you also do troubleshooting for family.

00:39:23 ◼   ► I have a troubleshooting story that I wanna tell

00:39:26 ◼   ► and then I'm curious if you've got any too.

00:39:28 ◼   ► My father-in-law sent me an email last week.

00:39:31 ◼   ► It was like, "Jason, when you're down here,

00:39:32 ◼   ► "if you don't mind taking time away from your vacation,

00:39:36 ◼   ► "I have some technical questions for you."

00:39:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:39:38 ◼   ► Like, of course I will help you with your thing.

00:39:41 ◼   ► So Friday, I'm thinking, well, today's the day

00:39:43 ◼   ► we're gonna do the technical things.

00:39:44 ◼   ► I'm literally sitting at the kitchen table.

00:39:46 ◼   ► We just got there.

00:39:47 ◼   ► I'm drinking some tea.

00:39:48 ◼   ► And Elliot walks in and says,

00:39:52 ◼   ► he's just gotten back, this is what it is, I'm drinking tea.

00:39:54 ◼   ► He's just gotten back from a bike ride.

00:39:56 ◼   ► He walks in, he's still got his yellow bike jacket on,

00:40:00 ◼   ► like visibility jacket.

00:40:01 ◼   ► And I'm thinking, oh, he's gonna take off his stuff

00:40:04 ◼   ► and maybe take a shower or do whatever he needs to do

00:40:06 ◼   ► and then maybe we'll do the troubleshooting.

00:40:08 ◼   ► He immediately walks up to me and says,

00:40:10 ◼   ► "Jason, do you have time now to do the troubleshooting?"

00:40:12 ◼   ► I'm like, "Well, first off, you gotta know my father-in-law.

00:40:15 ◼   ► "This is exactly like him,"

00:40:16 ◼   ► which is like, he's got a list in his head.

00:40:18 ◼   ► And he waited on Thanksgiving.

00:40:20 ◼   ► And he's like, "I'm not gonna ask him on Thanksgiving.

00:40:21 ◼   ► "We agreed, we talk about it on Friday."

00:40:23 ◼   ► But literally the first second he sees me on Friday,

00:40:26 ◼   ► he's like, "Jason."

00:40:27 ◼   ► - Let's go.

00:40:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:29 ◼   ► - So there are three things.

00:40:33 ◼   ► And I just wanna say them 'cause I think it's fascinating.

00:40:35 ◼   ► It's fascinating to see, we set people up

00:40:37 ◼   ► and then we walk away and then we're gone for a long time.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And then you come back and you're like, what?

00:40:41 ◼   ► It's that community, Jif, where Troy brings the pizza in

00:40:45 ◼   ► and everything's on fire.

00:40:46 ◼   ► You're like, I was just here, what is happening?

00:40:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, what did you do?

00:40:51 ◼   ► So one of these, I put them in our show notes.

00:40:55 ◼   ► What do you think, the first one, what is my first item?

00:40:59 ◼   ► Do you see it?

00:41:03 ◼   ► It's all, I'll tell you what it is, you can guess.

00:41:05 ◼   ► Two password.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Any idea? - Okay, two password.

00:41:09 ◼   ► Does that mean two factor?

00:41:11 ◼   ► - No, oh, if only it did.

00:41:13 ◼   ► If only it did.

00:41:14 ◼   ► Two password means that my father-in-law's complaint was

00:41:18 ◼   ► I used to be able to auto-fill passwords

00:41:23 ◼   ► and click on open site in 1Password

00:41:26 ◼   ► and it would auto-fill the password and now it doesn't.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Can you fix this?

00:41:30 ◼   ► And what I discovered when I went to his applications folder

00:41:33 ◼   ► is that his applications folder contained 1Password 7

00:41:38 ◼   ► and 1Password.

00:41:40 ◼   ► They were both open in the doc.

00:41:41 ◼   ► So two versions of 1Password were open simultaneously.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And there were like five 1Password.zip backup files

00:41:49 ◼   ► of the app in that folder too.

00:41:51 ◼   ► And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is too many 1Passwords.

00:41:56 ◼   ► So I, and he said something about like, yeah,

00:42:01 ◼   ► but on my, I use the, he's basically,

00:42:04 ◼   ► he's using his 1Password cloud password on his Mac,

00:42:08 ◼   ► but he's using his old vault password on his iPhone.

00:42:13 ◼   ► And he felt like they, I don't know what the rationale is

00:42:16 ◼   ► here, so I deleted all the old 1Passwords,

00:42:19 ◼   ► making sure that the whole vault was synced in the cloud

00:42:23 ◼   ► and all that for the actual current version of 1Password.

00:42:27 ◼   ► He handed me his phone,

00:42:29 ◼   ► he had two versions of 1Password on his phone too,

00:42:31 ◼   ► so we deleted 1Password 7.

00:42:33 ◼   ► You opened up 1Password 8,

00:42:35 ◼   ► I made sure auto-fill was on in all the places.

00:42:38 ◼   ► His behavior is fascinating.

00:42:39 ◼   ► I didn't understand this, but this is a thing you can do.

00:42:42 ◼   ► He goes to secure sites by opening that site

00:42:47 ◼   ► in 1Password and clicking open.

00:42:50 ◼   ► And then it opens the browser and auto-fills the password,

00:42:55 ◼   ► which I find bizarre, but it's supported.

00:42:58 ◼   ► It's a thing you can do in 1Password.

00:43:01 ◼   ► So 2Password, he had too many 1Passwords.

00:43:06 ◼   ► It's so much, and his password, oh, the other thing,

00:43:08 ◼   ► his password is incredibly detailed, as you might expect,

00:43:11 ◼   ► 'cause you don't wanna steal the logins of a retired person.

00:43:14 ◼   ► I mean, he's got his financial stuff and all that, I get it.

00:43:16 ◼   ► So he's put it under a very difficult password.

00:43:19 ◼   ► And we get to the phone and I'm like,

00:43:20 ◼   ► well, it won't be so bad on the phone.

00:43:21 ◼   ► You won't have to pack it in on a software keyboard

00:43:23 ◼   ► because you use Face ID.

00:43:25 ◼   ► And he doesn't use Face ID.

00:43:27 ◼   ► And I said, why don't you use Face ID?

00:43:28 ◼   ► And he says, I just, I don't wanna do it.

00:43:29 ◼   ► I like having a password.

00:43:31 ◼   ► Okay, I mean, you're the one,

00:43:36 ◼   ► you're the one closer to the end of your life

00:43:38 ◼   ► who is spending a minute typing in

00:43:40 ◼   ► a very complicated password every time you wanna open

00:43:42 ◼   ► one password on your phone.

00:43:44 ◼   ► It's your choice, it's your choice.

00:43:46 ◼   ► I'm gonna let that one go.

00:43:47 ◼   ► Anyway, 2Passwords.

00:43:49 ◼   ► - 2Password.

00:43:50 ◼   ► - He also said, I have this thing where when I'm clicking

00:43:54 ◼   ► on menu items or things in the interface

00:43:56 ◼   ► that it doesn't click.

00:43:57 ◼   ► I said, well, what does it do?

00:43:59 ◼   ► He says, well, it will bring up,

00:44:01 ◼   ► usually it will bring up like a menu or something,

00:44:04 ◼   ► but it doesn't click.

00:44:06 ◼   ► I'm thinking, well, that's the Alt+Click,

00:44:08 ◼   ► that's Control+Click or Right+Click.

00:44:09 ◼   ► And he's using an Apple mouse.

00:44:11 ◼   ► And I investigated and here's the best I can guess.

00:44:15 ◼   ► I don't know this for certain,

00:44:16 ◼   ► but here's the best I can guess.

00:44:18 ◼   ► And this is this whole computer mystery solver thing

00:44:23 ◼   ► that I think a lot of technical people have to do.

00:44:25 ◼   ► And some of it is really intuition.

00:44:27 ◼   ► It is that we've seen so many things.

00:44:29 ◼   ► It's like my story about the guy at the Apple store

00:44:31 ◼   ► who when I was completely distraught about my Mac studio,

00:44:34 ◼   ► he was like, I think I know what this is.

00:44:36 ◼   ► And within like 10 minutes we had solved it

00:44:38 ◼   ► because he'd seen it a million times

00:44:40 ◼   ► and he could see the pattern.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Whereas I couldn't see the pattern

00:44:43 ◼   ► 'cause it had not really happened to me before.

00:44:46 ◼   ► So I showed him the mouse setting

00:44:49 ◼   ► where you can actually say,

00:44:51 ◼   ► don't use the right side of the mouse as an Alt+Click.

00:44:56 ◼   ► But I asked him and he does seem to use a right click

00:44:59 ◼   ► from time to time.

00:45:00 ◼   ► So in the end, much to my surprise,

00:45:02 ◼   ► my solution to his mouse click problem was behavioral.

00:45:06 ◼   ► I said, I think what's happening is

00:45:09 ◼   ► as you're using the mouse slowly,

00:45:12 ◼   ► your hand is creeping to the right

00:45:14 ◼   ► and the mouse is getting a little tilted.

00:45:17 ◼   ► And then when you click,

00:45:18 ◼   ► you're clicking with your index finger or whatever

00:45:21 ◼   ► that you think is gonna be a left click,

00:45:23 ◼   ► but you're actually over on the other side

00:45:25 ◼   ► and it's a right click,

00:45:26 ◼   ► or maybe it's right in the middle

00:45:27 ◼   ► and it's not registering at all.

00:45:29 ◼   ► And so when you have this thing again,

00:45:31 ◼   ► look at your hand and maybe reposition

00:45:35 ◼   ► and maybe that will solve it.

00:45:36 ◼   ► I don't know a hundred percent,

00:45:37 ◼   ► but I think that's what's going on.

00:45:39 ◼   ► And I told him, if this continues to be a problem,

00:45:42 ◼   ► turn off the right click in the mouse settings

00:45:46 ◼   ► and just use Control+Click

00:45:47 ◼   ► when you need to bring up a menu.

00:45:49 ◼   ► So we'll see what happens with that.

00:45:50 ◼   ► But I was fascinated.

00:45:51 ◼   ► I'm like, I think you're just holding it wrong.

00:45:53 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:45:54 ◼   ► That's literally what it is,

00:45:55 ◼   ► is you're just not paying attention.

00:45:57 ◼   ► And I'm not a mouse user, so I really don't know,

00:46:00 ◼   ► but that's my best guess is that his finger

00:46:01 ◼   ► is just kind of going rightward until he's right,

00:46:05 ◼   ► he's left clicking on the right side.

00:46:07 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:09 ◼   ► Yeah, as Kyle points out in Discord,

00:46:11 ◼   ► kudos that he's using a password manager at all.

00:46:15 ◼   ► He's already really ahead of the curve.

00:46:18 ◼   ► Yeah, he asked me about that at one point

00:46:20 ◼   ► and I said, you should use one password.

00:46:22 ◼   ► And one thing I will give my father-in-law

00:46:24 ◼   ► great credit for is if I basically say,

00:46:27 ◼   ► here's a thing and you have to pay for it,

00:46:28 ◼   ► but it solves your problem,

00:46:29 ◼   ► he's like, I have already bought it now.

00:46:32 ◼   ► He's instantly bought it.

00:46:33 ◼   ► He has no fear of that, if I say,

00:46:36 ◼   ► this will solve your problem.

00:46:38 ◼   ► He's like, great, where do I buy it?

00:46:40 ◼   ► And he's been using it faithfully, like I said,

00:46:42 ◼   ► apparently two at a time, but faithfully.

00:46:45 ◼   ► So yeah, also I should say the dynamic in this house

00:46:49 ◼   ► is hilarious 'cause my mother-in-law has a MacBook Air

00:46:51 ◼   ► and my father-in-law has an iMac, it's an Intel iMac.

00:46:56 ◼   ► And on a desk, it's a beautiful desk,

00:47:01 ◼   ► I think it's an uplift, like bamboo top,

00:47:04 ◼   ► it's gorgeous, it's great.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Long and it's got the printer on it,

00:47:09 ◼   ► it's got a bunch of papers on it, but it's an iMac.

00:47:11 ◼   ► So he's a desktop user, that's how he wants to use it.

00:47:14 ◼   ► And she does not want to use a desktop at all,

00:47:17 ◼   ► she wants to use a laptop.

00:47:18 ◼   ► I think it's just an interesting split between them.

00:47:21 ◼   ► Anyway, the last one is spam in his email.

00:47:26 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:30 ◼   ► That one can be tricky.

00:47:31 ◼   ► - So this one, what I found is that he was saying,

00:47:36 ◼   ► I get these emails and I block the sender,

00:47:39 ◼   ► but they keep sending me email.

00:47:41 ◼   ► And I said, okay, there's a few things going on here.

00:47:43 ◼   ► I said, first off, if it's truly spam,

00:47:46 ◼   ► blocking the sender will do nothing

00:47:48 ◼   ► 'cause they will send from another randomized email address.

00:47:50 ◼   ► So we'll never, blocking sender is not the solution.

00:47:53 ◼   ► You block a sender if it's like a person who's bad.

00:47:56 ◼   ► So I said, first thing you gotta do

00:47:57 ◼   ► is you gotta send it to junk, send it to your junk mail.

00:48:01 ◼   ► And Apple Mail junk filtering was on,

00:48:04 ◼   ► but he wasn't training it and he was still getting this stuff

00:48:10 ◼   ► so I said, okay, step one, send it to junk mail.

00:48:12 ◼   ► Step two, if it feels like it's a legitimate mailing list

00:48:16 ◼   ► that you just don't wanna be on,

00:48:19 ◼   ► Apple Mail puts a unsubscribe button at the top,

00:48:22 ◼   ► just click the unsubscribe button.

00:48:23 ◼   ► He says, well, what if it's a spammer?

00:48:25 ◼   ► I said, well, the worst thing that happens

00:48:27 ◼   ► is that they see that you're alive

00:48:28 ◼   ► and they send you more spam,

00:48:32 ◼   ► but most spammers don't really do the unsubscribe thing.

00:48:36 ◼   ► But if it's a company that you've had some dealing with

00:48:38 ◼   ► in the past and never wanna hear from again,

00:48:40 ◼   ► just click unsubscribe.

00:48:41 ◼   ► But otherwise, add them to junk

00:48:43 ◼   ► that trains the junk interface

00:48:45 ◼   ► and your life will be better for it.

00:48:48 ◼   ► So I just thought it was really interesting

00:48:50 ◼   ► that he had decided block sender

00:48:52 ◼   ► was the right way to deal with spammers and is not.

00:48:56 ◼   ► And then he said, of course, but I still get him,

00:48:58 ◼   ► what do I do when I'm on my iPhone?

00:48:59 ◼   ► I'm like, well, here's the thing,

00:49:01 ◼   ► Apple's decided that spam doesn't happen on the iPhone

00:49:04 ◼   ► so there's no junk mail interface at all.

00:49:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:08 ◼   ► And he's not using Gmail or iCloud mail,

00:49:10 ◼   ► he's using mail from his internet provider, Cox.

00:49:12 ◼   ► So- Okay, that's what I was gonna ask.

00:49:15 ◼   ► I was gonna say like, you just can't, sorry, can't be done.

00:49:19 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I use Gmail for everything

00:49:22 ◼   ► and I can just drag it in the junk folder

00:49:23 ◼   ► and then it learns and I actually have,

00:49:26 ◼   ► well, I don't even use mail, I use MimeStream,

00:49:28 ◼   ► but I don't have any like client side filtering.

00:49:30 ◼   ► I just let it all happen at the server level.

00:49:32 ◼   ► I have Gmail and I have sandbox, a former sponsor.

00:49:35 ◼   ► And so I use MimeStream

00:49:37 ◼   ► and they are doing all of that filtering for me,

00:49:40 ◼   ► which is great, right?

00:49:42 ◼   ► But if you are, and that also means that on my phone,

00:49:46 ◼   ► it's also filtered,

00:49:47 ◼   ► even though I'm using Apple mail on my phone,

00:49:49 ◼   ► it doesn't matter because the spam filtering

00:49:51 ◼   ► is happening regardless.

00:49:53 ◼   ► And I will, most of my training that I do

00:49:55 ◼   ► is that I get on all these garbage mailing lists,

00:49:58 ◼   ► I think because I'm press

00:50:00 ◼   ► and I'm circulating in some press list and,

00:50:03 ◼   ► or podcasts, you get this, I'm sure.

00:50:05 ◼   ► It's the, "Hello, podcast,

00:50:07 ◼   ► "I can make you a more successful podcast.

00:50:09 ◼   ► "Please get in touch."

00:50:10 ◼   ► And those all go in the same black hole

00:50:12 ◼   ► and I never hear from these people.

00:50:13 ◼   ► Yep, goodbye.

00:50:14 ◼   ► So, yeah.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a nightmare.

00:50:18 ◼   ► So do you have any recent troubleshooting things going?

00:50:22 ◼   ► Oh, I should mention,

00:50:23 ◼   ► you are the, in addition to being the co-host of Connected,

00:50:25 ◼   ► co-host of MacPowerUsers,

00:50:27 ◼   ► and you have a troubleshooting episode coming up.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Is that true?

00:50:32 ◼   ► We do.

00:50:33 ◼   ► Sunday's episode will be about this.

00:50:36 ◼   ► In hindsight, probably should have done it

00:50:37 ◼   ► before Thanksgiving in America, but we missed that.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Still got it before the big holidays in December,

00:50:42 ◼   ► so that's good, right?

00:50:43 ◼   ► There's a lot of holidays in December,

00:50:44 ◼   ► so there'll be a lot of family,

00:50:46 ◼   ► whether it's Christmas or Hanukkah or anything else.

00:50:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:49 ◼   ► So you're gonna be able to get people before the,

00:50:51 ◼   ► the more extended, I would say,

00:50:52 ◼   ► Thanksgiving is sometimes so fast.

00:50:54 ◼   ► I was in Orange County and I didn't get to see

00:50:56 ◼   ► your MPU co-host, David Sparks,

00:50:58 ◼   ► 'cause I literally had no time.

00:51:00 ◼   ► That was not the, sort of two days of intense family time,

00:51:03 ◼   ► and then that was it.

00:51:04 ◼   ► Christmas often is, you really do have that time,

00:51:07 ◼   ► unless your father-in-law is such a go-getter

00:51:09 ◼   ► that he's like, "Jason, now, let's do it."

00:51:12 ◼   ► You may need to relax.

00:51:14 ◼   ► So I think it's still good to have,

00:51:15 ◼   ► this is a good time to do the troubleshooting episode.

00:51:18 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, so Sunday we're talking about,

00:51:21 ◼   ► iCloud and iPhone storage space, backups, printing,

00:51:24 ◼   ► bad Wi-Fi, that sort of thing.

00:51:26 ◼   ► What I noticed over Thanksgiving,

00:51:30 ◼   ► and really just kind of in general is like,

00:51:33 ◼   ► I have family members who wanna, who ask me about AI,

00:51:37 ◼   ► because they either have heard the buzzwords,

00:51:40 ◼   ► or they've seen the Apple commercials

00:51:42 ◼   ► with Apple Intelligence, which as we have all talked about,

00:51:44 ◼   ► not a great ad because that stuff's not really out yet.

00:51:48 ◼   ► And that I think is gonna be something

00:51:51 ◼   ► that a lot of people like us,

00:51:53 ◼   ► upgrade-ians, we're gonna face that in the holiday season

00:51:56 ◼   ► of our aunt and uncles and whoever

00:51:59 ◼   ► asking us about these things.

00:52:00 ◼   ► And some people have some pretty wild ideas

00:52:03 ◼   ► about what is possible or what's coming.

00:52:06 ◼   ► And it could be difficult to have nuance

00:52:10 ◼   ► in some of those conversations.

00:52:12 ◼   ► Like when I sort of realized that this was happening

00:52:14 ◼   ► was a extended family member who is kind of a tech bro,

00:52:20 ◼   ► like he works at a start-up. I'm sorry.

00:52:22 ◼   ► He has a startup and he wears a vest

00:52:24 ◼   ► and drives a Tesla.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Typical. Typical.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Asking, he was very excited about AI

00:52:35 ◼   ► and wanted to know what things I thought

00:52:37 ◼   ► it would revolutionize.

00:52:38 ◼   ► And my answer was like, I think for most people,

00:52:41 ◼   ► like some of the writing tools may be interesting.

00:52:43 ◼   ► And then my big thing is like,

00:52:45 ◼   ► I don't think society is ready for anyone in the world

00:52:49 ◼   ► to make AI-generated images.

00:52:51 ◼   ► And Apple has sort of had a softball with it

00:52:56 ◼   ► because their styles are very cartoony,

00:52:59 ◼   ► you're very hand-drawn,

00:53:00 ◼   ► you're not making photo-realistic stuff with Apple's tools.

00:53:03 ◼   ► I think that that is them trying to avoid these issues

00:53:07 ◼   ► while still having the feature.

00:53:09 ◼   ► But you can go ask any number of things

00:53:12 ◼   ► to make a lifelike image of anybody

00:53:15 ◼   ► and they're pretty good at this point.

00:53:17 ◼   ► And I don't think we're ready for that.

00:53:18 ◼   ► I don't think people are ready for that.

00:53:20 ◼   ► And he was like, "Ah, yeah, no,

00:53:22 ◼   ► but it's gonna like cure diseases or whatever."

00:53:25 ◼   ► I'm like, "Yeah, that may also be true,

00:53:27 ◼   ► but I'm more worried about my family members on Facebook

00:53:31 ◼   ► seeing an image that's just not true, not accurate."

00:53:33 ◼   ► And I've already seen it.

00:53:34 ◼   ► Like I've seen it unfold already on social media.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And I think we gotta all be prepared

00:53:40 ◼   ► to answer those questions.

00:53:41 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, how do, yeah.

00:53:42 ◼   ► It's like, how do we talk to your kids

00:53:45 ◼   ► about the birds and the bees?

00:53:46 ◼   ► How do we talk to your uncle about AI features

00:53:49 ◼   ► and that tech bro cousin in your family about AI?

00:53:54 ◼   ► I mean, my stock line about AI all along has been

00:53:57 ◼   ► it's over-hyped and also could be huge, right?

00:53:59 ◼   ► Like I think it's both.

00:54:00 ◼   ► And I think we don't entirely know

00:54:02 ◼   ► exactly what parts are gonna be huge.

00:54:04 ◼   ► And I think it's interesting to see the stories

00:54:07 ◼   ► that suggest that they are running into problems,

00:54:11 ◼   ► building better models.

00:54:13 ◼   ► And the hype train is so hard

00:54:15 ◼   ► that it's actually really hard to tell

00:54:16 ◼   ► whether that's the backlash speaking.

00:54:19 ◼   ► Certainly if you're in an AI company

00:54:21 ◼   ► and you're running into problems, you would deny it, right?

00:54:24 ◼   ► You would be like, "No, no, no, I need my stock options.

00:54:27 ◼   ► No, we're great. We're great. Our company is great."

00:54:29 ◼   ► So it's actually kind of hard to tell,

00:54:31 ◼   ► but it is possible that there's gonna be a correction

00:54:34 ◼   ► where people realize that right now we're in the,

00:54:37 ◼   ► what doesn't it do phase,

00:54:38 ◼   ► where it's like AI is the solution to all of life's problems

00:54:42 ◼   ► and you know what? It's not.

00:54:44 ◼   ► I think I can give you 100% guarantee that it's not,

00:54:46 ◼   ► that all of the things that people claim AI can do

00:54:49 ◼   ► will not be things AI can do.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Some of them may, right?

00:54:54 ◼   ► I think some of them will, but not all of them.

00:54:57 ◼   ► And that's gonna lead to some bumps

00:54:59 ◼   ► where some companies that are driven by AI

00:55:02 ◼   ► are gonna be like, "Oh yeah, we can't do that."

00:55:05 ◼   ► And some of them are gonna go out of business.

00:55:08 ◼   ► They're gonna spend a lot of money now

00:55:09 ◼   ► assuming there's gonna be a big payoff

00:55:11 ◼   ► and they're gonna discover that there isn't a big payoff

00:55:12 ◼   ► and there'll be a consolidation.

00:55:14 ◼   ► I actually wonder if that will ultimately be a validation

00:55:16 ◼   ► to Apple's, like Apple didn't do it on purpose.

00:55:19 ◼   ► It wasn't their strategy to get behind on AI.

00:55:21 ◼   ► They were caught flat-footed,

00:55:22 ◼   ► but it may be a benefit to them

00:55:24 ◼   ► because they may be late enough to the party

00:55:26 ◼   ► that they can choose useful investments better

00:55:30 ◼   ► than some companies have done.

00:55:32 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:55:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's interesting.

00:55:34 ◼   ► I hadn't thought about it through that lens,

00:55:36 ◼   ► but yeah, that could definitely be how it-

00:55:38 ◼   ► - They may luck out basically.

00:55:40 ◼   ► They're like, "Oh, well, our small models running on devices

00:55:45 ◼   ► that don't cost us a lot in terms of these huge data centers

00:55:49 ◼   ► and we're focusing on summarization and writing tools

00:55:52 ◼   ► and some automation, like user automation,

00:55:55 ◼   ► I think is a potentially huge place

00:55:56 ◼   ► where this stuff could be successful.

00:55:58 ◼   ► That's why I'm excited about the app intents

00:56:01 ◼   ► and the personal contexts and being able to,

00:56:03 ◼   ► I love user automation, but even at the shortcuts level,

00:56:06 ◼   ► it's way too complicated for people.

00:56:08 ◼   ► And if people could say, "Hey, assistant,

00:56:11 ◼   ► I'd like to do this thing,"

00:56:14 ◼   ► and have it know that you could grab from this app

00:56:16 ◼   ► and take it here and transform it in this way

00:56:18 ◼   ► and then put it into this app and all of that

00:56:19 ◼   ► without you actually having to think like a programmer,

00:56:22 ◼   ► I think that's awesome.

00:56:24 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:56:26 ◼   ► I mean, Apple is behind on this stuff,

00:56:28 ◼   ► but maybe they'll dodge a bullet.

00:56:31 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Related to this, my spider sense went off

00:56:37 ◼   ► while listening to Connected last week.

00:56:39 ◼   ► I'm in the shower 'cause I listen to podcasts

00:56:43 ◼   ► in the shower when I'm walking the dog, don't be creepy.

00:56:45 ◼   ► It's just how it is.

00:56:46 ◼   ► I have two places that I can really reliably listen

00:56:48 ◼   ► to podcasts when I'm not driving back and forth to LA,

00:56:51 ◼   ► in which case, wow, we listen to a lot of podcasts.

00:56:54 ◼   ► But for this, I'm listening to Connected

00:56:58 ◼   ► in the shower yesterday,

00:56:59 ◼   ► and you're talking about your Apple Watch battery issues.

00:57:02 ◼   ► And you say, "Well, I think it might be the fast charging."

00:57:05 ◼   ► I think maybe, which I immediately thought it could be that.

00:57:09 ◼   ► So to back up, you and your wife both simultaneously

00:57:13 ◼   ► started having battery issues with your Apple Watches,

00:57:16 ◼   ► which is deeply suspicious, right?

00:57:18 ◼   ► That it's like, it's gotta be something

00:57:20 ◼   ► that's happening on both devices.

00:57:21 ◼   ► And all of the things we can isolate are,

00:57:24 ◼   ► there was probably a software update at some point

00:57:27 ◼   ► that hit both of your devices, right?

00:57:29 ◼   ► Okay, you changed the chargers.

00:57:33 ◼   ► And although that doesn't seem like it would

00:57:35 ◼   ► make any difference, and I don't think you're suggesting

00:57:38 ◼   ► that maybe fast charging an Apple Watch battery

00:57:40 ◼   ► just nukes it, right?

00:57:41 ◼   ► It makes it worse.

00:57:42 ◼   ► - Right, yeah.

00:57:43 ◼   ► - But I do wonder if Apple's charging algorithm

00:57:47 ◼   ► on the Apple Watch, its charging firmware,

00:57:49 ◼   ► might handle charging from the fast charger different,

00:57:54 ◼   ► and might taper it at the top differently,

00:57:58 ◼   ► and might even display the battery status differently.

00:58:02 ◼   ► And I wonder if it's one of those things

00:58:04 ◼   ► where you're using the fast charger, it charges fast,

00:58:07 ◼   ► but it doesn't charge as completely,

00:58:09 ◼   ► and you end up with a little less battery,

00:58:11 ◼   ► you think it's full, but it's not.

00:58:13 ◼   ► I had that thought, but the thing that made me literally

00:58:17 ◼   ► stick my hand out of the shower, pick up my phone,

00:58:19 ◼   ► and send you a text from the shower, which I did,

00:58:24 ◼   ► because I didn't wanna forget it,

00:58:25 ◼   ► 'cause then the conversation's gonna go on,

00:58:27 ◼   ► and I'm gonna miss it, and I'm gonna forget it,

00:58:30 ◼   ► was you changed your Wi-Fi,

00:58:32 ◼   ► and you went to two Wi-Fi, Ubiquiti Wi-Fi base stations.

00:58:37 ◼   ► And I just, it was, again, it's probably not it,

00:58:39 ◼   ► but it was doing that pattern recognition thing

00:58:42 ◼   ► that happens when you're a technology person,

00:58:44 ◼   ► and you're trying to troubleshoot, which was,

00:58:46 ◼   ► is it possible that even though the Wi-Fi is perfectly fine

00:58:50 ◼   ► for your laptops and your phones,

00:58:53 ◼   ► if it's just weak enough in the places

00:58:55 ◼   ► where you wear your watch,

00:58:57 ◼   ► that it has to ramp up the Wi-Fi power

00:59:00 ◼   ► in order to get on your Wi-Fi network,

00:59:03 ◼   ► or it doesn't see one of them, and it sees the faraway one,

00:59:07 ◼   ► and it's expending enough power

00:59:10 ◼   ► that it's pulling more from your battery,

00:59:12 ◼   ► and it's invisible to you, because you're still on the Wi-Fi.

00:59:16 ◼   ► A little like how if you're in a bad cell reception area,

00:59:19 ◼   ► your phone will get hot,

00:59:20 ◼   ► because it has to really crank up the power

00:59:22 ◼   ► in order to get anything on the receiving end.

00:59:26 ◼   ► So that was enough of an idea that you didn't mention

00:59:28 ◼   ► that I, so sorry, I sent you a text from the shower.

00:59:30 ◼   ► It happens.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it was good,

00:59:32 ◼   ► and some connected listeners had also said,

00:59:35 ◼   ► like, hey, this happened. (laughs)

00:59:38 ◼   ► When you swapped out your Wi-Fi.

00:59:39 ◼   ► When you swapped from eero to UniFi,

00:59:43 ◼   ► and it was not only that the battery life was bad,

00:59:46 ◼   ► but also our watches would drop,

00:59:49 ◼   ► basically drop off the network,

00:59:51 ◼   ► so they would be disconnected from our phones.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:54 ◼   ► And I think that also was like cycling

00:59:56 ◼   ► into the battery thing, like, oh, I don't know what to do.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Sure. My phone is gone.

01:00:00 ◼   ► And I spent some time this weekend doing some looking

01:00:04 ◼   ► around, some searching, and came across a couple posts,

01:00:08 ◼   ► none of them super recent,

01:00:10 ◼   ► but people having similar issues with UniFi.

01:00:14 ◼   ► And so I made a couple of changes to the network,

01:00:18 ◼   ► just, and honestly, Jason, some of them I don't understand.

01:00:21 ◼   ► It's like, oh, change this sort of handoff

01:00:25 ◼   ► to this other kind of handoff.

01:00:26 ◼   ► It's network voodoo.

01:00:27 ◼   ► And I had a Ubiquiti router for a while.

01:00:29 ◼   ► It's the only Ubiquiti product I've had,

01:00:30 ◼   ► but it was one of those things where I'm like,

01:00:32 ◼   ► I don't know what any of this stuff means.

01:00:34 ◼   ► I'll just check some boxes.

01:00:36 ◼   ► But that's one of the things you can do is like,

01:00:39 ◼   ► if I check this box, what happens?

01:00:40 ◼   ► If I, you know, it's a one level above,

01:00:42 ◼   ► turn it off and back on again.

01:00:44 ◼   ► By the way, I should mention my father-in-law.

01:00:45 ◼   ► He did have another problem later in the day

01:00:47 ◼   ► where he's like, Jason, I clicked open to open this email

01:00:50 ◼   ► and it opened with a blank nothing.

01:00:51 ◼   ► And I did command Q.

01:00:53 ◼   ► I was like, well, let's quit and relaunch mail.

01:00:54 ◼   ► And I did command Q and nothing happened.

01:00:56 ◼   ► And I thought, let's restart your Mac.

01:00:59 ◼   ► And then it all was fine after that.

01:01:01 ◼   ► It's like, you gotta go through the steps.

01:01:02 ◼   ► You gotta go through tier one troubleshooting,

01:01:04 ◼   ► which is, did you try to turn it off and back on again

01:01:07 ◼   ► and then get there?

01:01:08 ◼   ► But like for networking, I mean,

01:01:10 ◼   ► that's what you, even if you don't know anything,

01:01:12 ◼   ► that's what you do is like,

01:01:13 ◼   ► maybe DHCP leases should be longer.

01:01:16 ◼   ► Maybe they should be shorter.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Maybe this weird repeater thing should be on if it's off.

01:01:23 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:01:25 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:01:26 ◼   ► So I changed a couple of settings.

01:01:28 ◼   ► And then last night came across a more recent thread

01:01:33 ◼   ► that people were having issues with this

01:01:35 ◼   ► if six gigahertz was turned on.

01:01:38 ◼   ► 'Cause then like the phones on 6E, Wi-Fi 6E,

01:01:41 ◼   ► which the Apple Watch doesn't support.

01:01:43 ◼   ► Oh, interesting.

01:01:45 ◼   ► And so I turned that off

01:01:47 ◼   ► and I'm still getting gigabit speed.

01:01:48 ◼   ► Like five gigahertz will give you gigabit Wi-Fi speed.

01:01:52 ◼   ► And so I'm not really losing any speed

01:01:54 ◼   ► from going down.

01:01:56 ◼   ► And then someone else also recommended

01:01:59 ◼   ► forget the Wi-Fi network on your phone

01:02:01 ◼   ► and like rejoin it.

01:02:02 ◼   ► 'Cause I used the same SSID and password as I had before

01:02:07 ◼   ► 'cause I don't wanna run around

01:02:08 ◼   ► and like rejoin the new Wi-Fi network

01:02:10 ◼   ► to a bunch of devices. Absolutely.

01:02:12 ◼   ► And so I've done all of those things

01:02:14 ◼   ► and so far it's been okay,

01:02:15 ◼   ► but it's only been like 12 hours.

01:02:17 ◼   ► So we'll see.

01:02:20 ◼   ► I do think my wife's like small size series eight,

01:02:25 ◼   ► like when a small watch gets down to 88% battery

01:02:31 ◼   ► or whatever, like you start to feel it

01:02:32 ◼   ► more than the ultra. Sure, for sure.

01:02:34 ◼   ► And so I think she may end up getting an upgrade anyways,

01:02:37 ◼   ► but yeah, I need to continue to chip away at this.

01:02:41 ◼   ► I'm pretty convinced that it's something with the Wi-Fi now.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Ooh, oh, what a validation for shower Jason.

01:02:48 ◼   ► Yes, I think shower Jason was right.

01:02:50 ◼   ► And as we're thinking of the people,

01:02:52 ◼   ► and someone even emailed me with some suggestions,

01:02:54 ◼   ► which is very kind, thank you.

01:02:56 ◼   ► I've emailed back and forth with somebody now

01:02:58 ◼   ► about this for a little bit.

01:02:59 ◼   ► So we'll see. We'll see.

01:03:02 ◼   ► We will see how this goes.

01:03:03 ◼   ► And I don't, it's fixable, I'm sure.

01:03:07 ◼   ► I think maybe Mary's watch

01:03:10 ◼   ► was probably right on the edge, right?

01:03:11 ◼   ► Where we're still getting it done,

01:03:12 ◼   ► but just a little phantom battery drain is enough

01:03:15 ◼   ► to make it suddenly, right?

01:03:16 ◼   ► 'Cause you hit the wall where it's like,

01:03:17 ◼   ► well, if I can't wear it all day,

01:03:19 ◼   ► because I'm sitting at home in the evening

01:03:21 ◼   ► and it's 8 p.m. or 9 p.m.,

01:03:22 ◼   ► and it's telling me I'm at 10% and I'm gonna die,

01:03:25 ◼   ► that's when you notice, right?

01:03:27 ◼   ► If it goes from being 30% when you go to bed

01:03:30 ◼   ► to 20% when you go to bed, it doesn't matter.

01:03:32 ◼   ► But when suddenly you start getting the alerts,

01:03:35 ◼   ► and so it's just enough phantom battery drain

01:03:37 ◼   ► somewhere in the process to tick her watch over

01:03:39 ◼   ► into panic mode, but you could also get her a new watch.

01:03:42 ◼   ► That'd be nice.

01:03:43 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:03:46 ◼   ► I usually upgrade her every three years anyways.

01:03:48 ◼   ► So it's about time.

01:03:50 ◼   ► But we'll see.

01:03:52 ◼   ► I'm hopeful that turning off six gigahertz

01:03:55 ◼   ► is enough for now.

01:03:56 ◼   ► And if you're listening and you have UniFi stuff

01:04:00 ◼   ► and you've had issues like this, please reach out

01:04:02 ◼   ► because I would like to get this solved.

01:04:04 ◼   ► I believe it's fixable.

01:04:07 ◼   ► The fact that there's really not a lot online about it

01:04:09 ◼   ► suggests that this is not a widespread thing.

01:04:11 ◼   ► And I reached out to some friends with UniFi stuff.

01:04:15 ◼   ► They're like, no, we haven't seen this.

01:04:16 ◼   ► And so I think it's probably something maybe unique

01:04:20 ◼   ► to my setup, but we will see.

01:04:24 ◼   ► But this is some of the fun stuff.

01:04:26 ◼   ► Yeah, it's super annoying that my watch just disappears

01:04:28 ◼   ► from my phone and my activity rings are empty for the day.

01:04:32 ◼   ► That's not great.

01:04:33 ◼   ► But part of it, a little part of me,

01:04:36 ◼   ► I'm also having fun with it.

01:04:37 ◼   ► It's a mystery to be solved.

01:04:39 ◼   ► Because the kids are still being able to stream Netflix.

01:04:41 ◼   ► It's not like it's broken my network.

01:04:44 ◼   ► It's really just affecting me and Mary

01:04:46 ◼   ► and she didn't even notice until Siri didn't work.

01:04:49 ◼   ► She's a big Siri on the watch person.

01:04:52 ◼   ► But I feel like there's a fix out there.

01:04:56 ◼   ► What Siri's watch does she have again?

01:04:59 ◼   ► She is on the Series 8, the little one.

01:05:02 ◼   ► So she doesn't have the Siri on the watch at all?

01:05:07 ◼   ► Right, but I mean, just hitting the button

01:05:10 ◼   ► and talking to Siri and it's really going through the phone.

01:05:12 ◼   ► So having gone from the, I think, seven to the 10,

01:05:15 ◼   ► 'cause I think it's the nine and the 10

01:05:17 ◼   ► that have the onboard Siri and the ultras.

01:05:19 ◼   ► She's gonna love that upgrade, right?

01:05:22 ◼   ► Because that's the thing that I use.

01:05:24 ◼   ► I use it mostly for reminders and timers and stuff.

01:05:27 ◼   ► But man, having the model running on the device

01:05:30 ◼   ► instead of having to go back to the phone, it's so great.

01:05:34 ◼   ► It's so great.

01:05:36 ◼   ► It's much more responsive.

01:05:38 ◼   ► I used to just get so frustrated with Siri on the watch

01:05:40 ◼   ► because it would spin and spin and spin and spin

01:05:42 ◼   ► and then say, "I give up."

01:05:44 ◼   ► And now it never does that.

01:05:45 ◼   ► Because the hardware is improved to the point

01:05:47 ◼   ► where you can run that stuff on the device.

01:05:49 ◼   ► It's great.

01:05:50 ◼   ► So she'll love that.

01:05:52 ◼   ► I hadn't even thought about that.

01:05:53 ◼   ► But yeah, that plus the battery may be enough for me to.

01:05:57 ◼   ► Yeah, feels good.

01:05:58 ◼   ► Maybe I can find a Cyber Monday deal.

01:06:00 ◼   ► Thanks, Unifi.

01:06:01 ◼   ► Today.

01:06:02 ◼   ► Thanks, Unifi.

01:06:03 ◼   ► Cost him even bringing families together.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Even more money.

01:06:07 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:06:09 ◼   ► This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Smarter World.

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01:06:20 ◼   ► I am here, Jason.

01:06:21 ◼   ► Let me tell you.

01:06:23 ◼   ► Let's sit down here.

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01:06:25 ◼   ► Turn this chair around backward.

01:06:28 ◼   ► We're gonna wrap a little.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Okay, tell me.

01:06:30 ◼   ► Let's start with a couple of questions.

01:06:31 ◼   ► How do you control a robotic arm with your voice?

01:06:35 ◼   ► Which technology allows cars to communicate in real time

01:06:39 ◼   ► as they drive?

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01:06:58 ◼   ► about how smart energy is changing the buildings we work in.

01:07:02 ◼   ► My old building used to like leave the lights on

01:07:04 ◼   ► all the time and leave the AC on half the time.

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01:07:09 ◼   ► Like they need a better system.

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01:07:23 ◼   ► Ooh, I have a friend who's into electric motorcycles.

01:07:27 ◼   ► That's cool.

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01:07:47 ◼   ► and all of Steven's podcast network.

01:07:50 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:53 ◼   ► Steven, I wrote a thing that I say for you for this podcast,

01:07:58 ◼   ► which is indecision at the intersection of the Mac studio

01:08:01 ◼   ► and the Mac mini, which is my article where I get lots

01:08:05 ◼   ► and lots and lots and lots of advice from people I know

01:08:11 ◼   ► about what kind of computer I should buy,

01:08:13 ◼   ► because I'm feeling the Mac mini sweats, right?

01:08:16 ◼   ► Like the, oh, that Mac mini pro chip, so impressive.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Do I want that?

01:08:21 ◼   ► I have a Mac studio M1 max, which is really, really good.

01:08:25 ◼   ► I ran benchmark tests against the pro and I was like,

01:08:28 ◼   ► well, it's way faster at CPU, but actually,

01:08:30 ◼   ► 'cause it has so many fewer GPU cores than my M1,

01:08:34 ◼   ► it's only like a 7% GPU boost, which is impressive

01:08:38 ◼   ► going from a max to a pro.

01:08:39 ◼   ► But like, if I'm gonna get a new computer after three years,

01:08:42 ◼   ► I want like a really impressive jump.

01:08:44 ◼   ► And that was enough to get me off of the Mac mini train,

01:08:48 ◼   ► I think, even though it's so cute, because I thought,

01:08:51 ◼   ► it's just, it's not enough of a benefit for me,

01:08:54 ◼   ► even though it's sorely tempting.

01:08:55 ◼   ► But it's just like, okay, maybe I'll just wait and see,

01:08:59 ◼   ► they'll probably be the high end of the Mac mini

01:09:01 ◼   ► and the low end of the Mac studio, usually crossover,

01:09:04 ◼   ► and you get the max chip in the Mac studio,

01:09:06 ◼   ► even the base model is gonna be way more impressive

01:09:09 ◼   ► than the high end Mac mini, and presumably will blow

01:09:14 ◼   ► my existing Mac studio out of the water.

01:09:17 ◼   ► And this was great until some of my friends,

01:09:19 ◼   ► and I use that term somewhat pejoratively here,

01:09:22 ◼   ► said, Jason, you have a laptop

01:09:26 ◼   ► that you travel with sometimes,

01:09:27 ◼   ► you have a desk in your garage,

01:09:29 ◼   ► and you have a desk in the back of the house

01:09:30 ◼   ► that you use a lot in the winter,

01:09:32 ◼   ► because you don't wanna heat your garage

01:09:35 ◼   ► and it's a separate space heater.

01:09:37 ◼   ► All of this is true.

01:09:38 ◼   ► And they say, you should just get a MacBook Pro,

01:09:41 ◼   ► you can get an M4 Max MacBook Pro today,

01:09:45 ◼   ► you don't even need to wait for the Mac studio.

01:09:47 ◼   ► And the best part is, Macs are good at syncing data,

01:09:51 ◼   ► but they're not great at syncing data.

01:09:53 ◼   ► There's a lot of data that doesn't sync,

01:09:56 ◼   ► that you're like, oh, suddenly this app,

01:09:59 ◼   ► I think it was Hazel the other day,

01:10:01 ◼   ► where it's like, oh, Hazel doesn't know what to do on this,

01:10:04 ◼   ► and the Python version was different,

01:10:06 ◼   ► and this thing wasn't installed

01:10:08 ◼   ► when I went from one room to another.

01:10:11 ◼   ► And my friends, again, so-called friends were like,

01:10:14 ◼   ► if you have a MacBook Pro,

01:10:15 ◼   ► you literally carry your computer from room A to room B,

01:10:19 ◼   ► and everything is the same,

01:10:21 ◼   ► because it's literally the same computer.

01:10:22 ◼   ► And you know what you can also do then?

01:10:24 ◼   ► When you go visit your mom in Phoenix,

01:10:27 ◼   ► it's also the same, 'cause it's the same computer.

01:10:30 ◼   ► And are you getting it yet?

01:10:32 ◼   ► It's not three different computers in three different places,

01:10:34 ◼   ► it's one computer.

01:10:35 ◼   ► - It's one computer. - You move between places.

01:10:38 ◼   ► And so I come to you, also with this,

01:10:42 ◼   ► I wanted to just share a link.

01:10:43 ◼   ► There is an absolutely bananas article

01:10:47 ◼   ► on 9to5Mac last week,

01:10:50 ◼   ► that was how I turned the M4 Mac mini

01:10:52 ◼   ► into a travel computer, it's hilarious.

01:10:54 ◼   ► I really admire the moxie of the 9to5Mac writer,

01:11:00 ◼   ► Fernando Silva, because it's like,

01:11:03 ◼   ► I've got a backpack, I got a little portable display,

01:11:06 ◼   ► I got a Mac mini, I got a keyboard,

01:11:08 ◼   ► and I can travel with my computer.

01:11:10 ◼   ► And then he's like, of course you could also buy a laptop.

01:11:12 ◼   ► I'm like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, you could do that, you could.

01:11:15 ◼   ► - You know whose fault this story is?

01:11:17 ◼   ► This travel M4 Mac mini,

01:11:20 ◼   ► we're gonna get back to you in a second,

01:11:22 ◼   ► but this travel M4 Mac mini situation,

01:11:24 ◼   ► it's Federico Vittucci's fault,

01:11:26 ◼   ► because he cut a MacBook Air in half

01:11:28 ◼   ► and stuck an iPad on top of it.

01:11:30 ◼   ► And suddenly everybody's hacking their hardware.

01:11:32 ◼   ► - It was the original sin of this whole thing, was that.

01:11:35 ◼   ► - It was, you know, Sigmund has got an Apple TV.

01:11:39 ◼   ► Do you know, we talked about it on Connected, I think,

01:11:42 ◼   ► he doesn't even have the screen anymore.

01:11:44 ◼   ► - No, he threw it away.

01:11:45 ◼   ► - So he just has half a MacBook Air in his drawer.

01:11:47 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:11:48 ◼   ► - What are you doing, man?

01:11:50 ◼   ► Back to you, though.

01:11:51 ◼   ► - Thank you.

01:11:52 ◼   ► - And I think last time I was on upgrade,

01:11:54 ◼   ► I also had some sort of, I was judging something.

01:11:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, you bring the Mac therapy.

01:12:01 ◼   ► - Wisdom, yeah.

01:12:02 ◼   ► - Thank you.

01:12:03 ◼   ► - So for years, I had a desktop Mac and a laptop.

01:12:09 ◼   ► And so I did this, right?

01:12:11 ◼   ► Like I kind of have my desktop be my main computer.

01:12:14 ◼   ► And then I took my notebook with me

01:12:15 ◼   ► when I went to go work somewhere else.

01:12:16 ◼   ► And I did the data juggling thing.

01:12:18 ◼   ► And you're right, documents, photos, calendar stuff,

01:12:21 ◼   ► that's really easy to sync.

01:12:23 ◼   ► It's all sort of the other stuff that we as nerds

01:12:26 ◼   ► have a lot of extra stuff.

01:12:28 ◼   ► That's where you're really kind of like rebuilding it

01:12:31 ◼   ► on both systems.

01:12:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's all the stuff that's in like your library files

01:12:36 ◼   ► and that the apps have not, or the system,

01:12:39 ◼   ► have just not moved, which they have to engineer themselves,

01:12:44 ◼   ► like move to a system where that stuff ends up

01:12:47 ◼   ► living in a synced place.

01:12:49 ◼   ► And so they all get out of sync.

01:12:51 ◼   ► It just, it happens.

01:12:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, it can actually be kind of frustrating.

01:12:55 ◼   ► It's like, oh, why isn't this thing working?

01:12:59 ◼   ► Hazel's a great example of this for me.

01:13:01 ◼   ► 'Cause I use Hazel and it's like,

01:13:02 ◼   ► oh, why is this PDF still just sitting on my desktop?

01:13:04 ◼   ► Why hasn't it moved?

01:13:05 ◼   ► It's like, oh, because I want a different computer.

01:13:08 ◼   ► So.

01:13:09 ◼   ► - And Hazel has a sync system,

01:13:10 ◼   ► but you have to turn it on

01:13:13 ◼   ► and make sure you turn it on in the right place

01:13:14 ◼   ► and say, now this, and then go to the other computer

01:13:17 ◼   ► and say, now use that and also do it here.

01:13:19 ◼   ► And if you do that, it does work, but you have to do it.

01:13:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, same with Alfred, which is my launcher of choice.

01:13:25 ◼   ► And if Alfred's not the same whenever I use a computer,

01:13:28 ◼   ► I use my brain, does it work?

01:13:30 ◼   ► But you have to go in and you put a folder on Dropbox

01:13:33 ◼   ► and then it syncs it.

01:13:34 ◼   ► And we all know how reliable that can be over time.

01:13:38 ◼   ► But so that was my life for really,

01:13:42 ◼   ► for like seven, probably seven or eight years,

01:13:45 ◼   ► my first seven or eight years being independent, I did this.

01:13:48 ◼   ► And then with the M2 generation,

01:13:51 ◼   ► I bought a pretty nice M2 Pro MacBook Pro

01:13:55 ◼   ► and made the decision, like I'm gonna have one computer.

01:13:57 ◼   ► And when I'm at my desk, it's hooked up to my studio display

01:14:00 ◼   ► and my sound equipment, everything else.

01:14:01 ◼   ► I use a Thunderbolt dock for that.

01:14:03 ◼   ► But then I can just eject time machine.

01:14:07 ◼   ► I can unplug a single cable

01:14:09 ◼   ► and my one computer goes with me.

01:14:12 ◼   ► Now there are downsides to that, right?

01:14:14 ◼   ► The laptop's more expensive.

01:14:15 ◼   ► If your car gets broken into and someone snatches your bag

01:14:19 ◼   ► and your one computer was in it, that's a problem, right?

01:14:22 ◼   ► Or if you spill ice tea into it

01:14:24 ◼   ► and you know, and so I still have,

01:14:27 ◼   ► like I have an M1 MacBook Air

01:14:28 ◼   ► that's my beta machine in the summer.

01:14:30 ◼   ► And that's sort of my escape patch.

01:14:32 ◼   ► Like if something happened to this laptop,

01:14:34 ◼   ► I could still record a podcast by getting,

01:14:37 ◼   ► you know, some stuff installed on it.

01:14:38 ◼   ► So, you know, there's nothing saying

01:14:41 ◼   ► you wouldn't have the redundancy

01:14:44 ◼   ► or sort of the safety net of that.

01:14:46 ◼   ► But I have really come to enjoy having

01:14:51 ◼   ► just the one Mac with everything on it

01:14:53 ◼   ► and my setup being the same everywhere.

01:14:57 ◼   ► And I think in your case,

01:14:58 ◼   ► where you are kind of bouncing back and forth

01:15:00 ◼   ► between the garage and the bedroom, Studio B back there,

01:15:05 ◼   ► I think there's real benefit to it.

01:15:06 ◼   ► And I think the 14-inch M4 Macs would smoke your studio.

01:15:11 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:15:14 ◼   ► - And give you that.

01:15:16 ◼   ► And I understand like you're a small laptop person.

01:15:18 ◼   ► You know, the 14-inch is a little bulky and I get that.

01:15:21 ◼   ► But I think the benefits outweigh that, at least for me.

01:15:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm coming around.

01:15:25 ◼   ► I'm still not there yet, right?

01:15:27 ◼   ► 'Cause I have been a MacBook Air person for so long.

01:15:29 ◼   ► But the truth is, my MacBook Air-ness was very much

01:15:33 ◼   ► based on the fact that I used to be a commuter

01:15:36 ◼   ► and brought my laptop back and forth.

01:15:38 ◼   ► 'Cause you talk about, you know,

01:15:40 ◼   ► having your same computer everywhere.

01:15:41 ◼   ► I did that.

01:15:42 ◼   ► It was in my backpack.

01:15:42 ◼   ► It was a MacBook Air on my back.

01:15:44 ◼   ► So I wanted to be as light as possible,

01:15:45 ◼   ► but I docked it at work and then used it at home.

01:15:48 ◼   ► It was great.

01:15:49 ◼   ► And when I started this, I started with a Mac.

01:15:52 ◼   ► I eventually bought that Retina iMac when it came out.

01:15:54 ◼   ► But when I started doing this work-from-home thing,

01:15:57 ◼   ► it was with a docked MacBook Air on a monitor.

01:16:01 ◼   ► And it was great.

01:16:02 ◼   ► So I'm open to it because my laptop,

01:16:05 ◼   ► like I don't use the laptop around the house very much

01:16:07 ◼   ► at all because I use the iPad.

01:16:10 ◼   ► Like on the couch and stuff, it's never the laptop.

01:16:14 ◼   ► It's always the iPad for that stuff.

01:16:16 ◼   ► And even in the backyard, most of the time I'm writing,

01:16:19 ◼   ► I'm actually writing on the iPad with the keyboard.

01:16:21 ◼   ► I'm not writing with the MacBook Air.

01:16:23 ◼   ► So my MacBook Air use is really limited

01:16:26 ◼   ► to the back of the house as the Studio B driver.

01:16:30 ◼   ► And when I go visit my mom or do any other kind

01:16:34 ◼   ► of like business travel where I need to record podcasts

01:16:36 ◼   ► and stuff like that, because I'm not as far gone

01:16:38 ◼   ► as Federico, who has completely forsaken the Mac.

01:16:40 ◼   ► It's not gonna be me.

01:16:41 ◼   ► I'm not gonna go that far.

01:16:42 ◼   ► For now, he'll be back.

01:16:44 ◼   ► He always comes back.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Yeah, he'll boomerang around.

01:16:47 ◼   ► He bounces around.

01:16:48 ◼   ► I love it.

01:16:49 ◼   ► He's just traveling the world and seeing the sights

01:16:53 ◼   ► and you can't pin him down.

01:16:55 ◼   ► It's great.

01:16:56 ◼   ► That's why we love him.

01:16:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:16:58 ◼   ► So I am seriously considering it,

01:16:59 ◼   ► which I kind of can't believe.

01:17:01 ◼   ► The other thing is I write these articles.

01:17:03 ◼   ► I write these reviews of these MacBook Pros.

01:17:06 ◼   ► And I always go out of my way to talk about the display

01:17:10 ◼   ► because it is the best display Apple has ever made, period.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Yeah, full stop.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Hands down.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Period.

01:17:16 ◼   ► It is spectacularly good, bright colors.

01:17:20 ◼   ► It's just incredible.

01:17:22 ◼   ► And having one of those when I travel,

01:17:26 ◼   ► well, you know, that would be nice.

01:17:28 ◼   ► That would be really nice.

01:17:29 ◼   ► And it's very rare that I'm using a laptop

01:17:31 ◼   ► in cramped conditions where I am going to say,

01:17:35 ◼   ► oh man, I really wish I had the MacBook Air

01:17:37 ◼   ► instead of the MacBook Pro.

01:17:38 ◼   ► It's not that much.

01:17:39 ◼   ► I mean, it's not the 11-inch Air, right?

01:17:41 ◼   ► That's the other thing is Apple is never gonna make,

01:17:43 ◼   ► I think, personally, I think,

01:17:44 ◼   ► never gonna make a Mac laptop smaller than the 13-inch Air.

01:17:48 ◼   ► I don't think they're gonna ever make a,

01:17:50 ◼   ► I would love it if they made an 11-inch Sub Air or whatever,

01:17:53 ◼   ► but I don't think they will.

01:17:55 ◼   ► And even if they did, I don't think I'd want it

01:17:57 ◼   ► because it would probably be so compromised at that point.

01:18:00 ◼   ► So I am coming around to the idea

01:18:03 ◼   ► that maybe a 14-inch M4 Max MacBook Pro

01:18:10 ◼   ► might be in my future replacing all of my other Macs.

01:18:14 ◼   ► And as for the fear of like, having a disaster

01:18:19 ◼   ► where you have to send your computer in

01:18:21 ◼   ► and you don't have access to a Mac for a while,