ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► What are you hitting escape for most of the time, Argo?

00:00:02 ◼   ► - A lot of times I will use it to defocus a text field

00:00:06 ◼   ► or something, or cancel a menu, or cancel a dialog box.

00:00:10 ◼   ► I don't know, I use it all the time.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Or I'll use it for autocomplete in text areas,

00:00:14 ◼   ► or in Xcode, like, I use it all the time.

00:00:18 ◼   ► - The main thing I use it for, when I'm not in Emacs,

00:00:21 ◼   ► which I'm rarely in, but anyway, the main thing I use it for,

00:00:23 ◼   ► believe it or not, is canceling drags.

00:00:25 ◼   ► I don't know if you two do this, but I'm very often dragging

00:00:27 ◼   ► things around in the Finder and saying--

00:00:29 ◼   ► - All the time.

00:00:30 ◼   ► - And thinking better of it, I'm like, eh, no,

00:00:32 ◼   ► and I just want that drag to be over,

00:00:34 ◼   ► and I love escape for that.

00:00:36 ◼   ► I do wonder when people who don't know how to do that,

00:00:38 ◼   ► what do they do when they have essentially a handful of files

00:00:41 ◼   ► and remember where they started dragging,

00:00:43 ◼   ► because the Finder's so weird about that.

00:00:45 ◼   ► - I didn't know I could do this, this is amazing.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I just-- - Oh my gosh, really?

00:00:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, what I do, I just try to carefully put it back.

00:00:50 ◼   ► That's what I've known. - Oh my word, Argo.

00:00:52 ◼   ► - Escape, escape, that's why you had your escape key for,

00:00:55 ◼   ► does it escape, you don't have to,

00:00:57 ◼   ► does carefully putting it back used to be so much better,

00:00:59 ◼   ► and now in the Finder, even when I,

00:01:01 ◼   ► if I try to carefully put it back, it's like,

00:01:03 ◼   ► I don't trust it, it's like, is it gonna move files up

00:01:05 ◼   ► on, like it was a ListView window?

00:01:07 ◼   ► Try putting files back in a ListView window

00:01:09 ◼   ► where you have a bunch of folders turned down, escape.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Escape says bail out of this drag operation.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Works across the whole operating system, I'm pretty sure.

00:01:16 ◼   ► - Oh man, now this is life-changing.

00:01:18 ◼   ► So this even, when you told me a year ago,

00:01:25 ◼   ► in order to get to my downloads folder,

00:01:27 ◼   ► I used to like click the stupid icon

00:01:30 ◼   ► that brings up the stack and then like--

00:01:31 ◼   ► - What, the keyboard shortcut?

00:01:32 ◼   ► - And you told me, just hold down Command + Option

00:01:35 ◼   ► and click the downloads folder and it brings up the folder.

00:01:37 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, the dock thing, yeah.

00:01:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, like, oh my god, that's so much better.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Like that's, yeah.

00:01:41 ◼   ► - Imagine if you could configure it to do that

00:01:42 ◼   ► on plain click, imagine that.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I've been waiting like 17 years for Apple to say,

00:01:47 ◼   ► you know what, it would be great if you could make that

00:01:49 ◼   ► an option or a P list setting or something, nope.

00:01:51 ◼   ► And so like it's ingrained in my hands,

00:01:53 ◼   ► Command + Option, clicking on folders in the dock forever.

00:01:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, thank god for that.

00:01:57 ◼   ► - You still can't dock a folder alias, by the way.

00:02:00 ◼   ► I filed that so many times, they just keep closing it

00:02:03 ◼   ► as like, we don't care.

00:02:04 ◼   ► Make an alias to a folder, drag it into the dock,

00:02:06 ◼   ► try to drag something into that alias of the folder.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Does the thing drag, go into the folder

00:02:09 ◼   ► that the thing's an alias of?

00:02:10 ◼   ► Nope, it just bounces back 'cause it's like,

00:02:12 ◼   ► I have no idea what to do here.

00:02:13 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense to me.

00:02:15 ◼   ► You dragged a file onto a folder icon,

00:02:17 ◼   ► I can't figure it out.

00:02:18 ◼   ► Abort, abort.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Just put the file in the folder, Apple.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Or don't let me put aliases to folders in the dock.

00:02:25 ◼   ► Those are your two choices, either one is fine.

00:02:27 ◼   ► Current behavior is maddening.

00:02:29 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:31 ◼   ► - How do you really feel?

00:02:32 ◼   ► - I filed it, I filed it, they closed it.

00:02:33 ◼   ► I should file, every five years I should refile that bug.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Not that anyone's working on the dock anymore.

00:02:38 ◼   ► - That's a reasonable interval to basically

00:02:41 ◼   ► like bother them again about something.

00:02:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, to watch your feedbacks just descend

00:02:46 ◼   ► into the black hole, yeah.

00:02:50 ◼   ► - We have one final reminder about ATP merch.

00:02:54 ◼   ► John, can you tell us, what should we be buying right now?

00:02:57 ◼   ► - We're buying everything.

00:02:58 ◼   ► This is the last time we will be telling you

00:03:02 ◼   ► about the ATP Holiday Store, which I know it seems

00:03:04 ◼   ► very close 'cause it's only the middle of November

00:03:05 ◼   ► as we're recording this, but like I said,

00:03:07 ◼   ► we're trying to push the sale back so you have a chance

00:03:09 ◼   ► of getting these things in time for the holidays.

00:03:12 ◼   ► This sale ends on Sunday, November 17th.

00:03:14 ◼   ► This is your last chance.

00:03:15 ◼   ► If you've been putting it off saying,

00:03:16 ◼   ► ah, maybe you'll get something, whatever,

00:03:18 ◼   ► you gotta do it now.

00:03:19 ◼   ► By the time you hear this episode,

00:03:20 ◼   ► it may be within a day or two of the thing closing.

00:03:23 ◼   ► So what do we have this year?

00:03:25 ◼   ► Obviously we have our gift memberships.

00:03:26 ◼   ► And by the way, gift memberships are available

00:03:27 ◼   ► all year round.

00:03:28 ◼   ► We put them on holiday sale 'cause it's the holiday season.

00:03:31 ◼   ► You might wanna give someone a gift membership.

00:03:32 ◼   ► You might want someone to get you a gift membership.

00:03:34 ◼   ► You can do that at any time.

00:03:35 ◼   ► Like on the store page, if you're logged in,

00:03:37 ◼   ► you'll see a link to give you an ATP gift membership.

00:03:42 ◼   ► Or you can just tell people to go to ATP.fm/gift.

00:03:45 ◼   ► It's real easy.

00:03:46 ◼   ► They can do that at any time.

00:03:47 ◼   ► That's the one thing that lives past the end of the sale

00:03:49 ◼   ► is the gift memberships.

00:03:50 ◼   ► You should still get them now

00:03:53 ◼   ► and copy the link now if you can.

00:03:54 ◼   ► But anyway, the actual March.

00:03:55 ◼   ► So we have all our M4 stuff.

00:03:57 ◼   ► As we have discussed in the past several episodes,

00:04:00 ◼   ► the M4 series of chips that have been released

00:04:02 ◼   ► for Macs are really good.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Lots of people writing in to say,

00:04:06 ◼   ► hey, I don't have an M4 Mac.

00:04:07 ◼   ► I have like an M2 Mac.

00:04:08 ◼   ► Can I get an M2 shirt?

00:04:10 ◼   ► It's like, just like going for a job interview

00:04:13 ◼   ► or being in a job, dress for the job you want.

00:04:16 ◼   ► You may not have an M4 now.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Dress for the chip that you want in your Mac

00:04:21 ◼   ► because who knows when the M4 chips will be sold again.

00:04:23 ◼   ► So even though you might have an M1 or an M2

00:04:25 ◼   ► or maybe an Intel CPU like some people,

00:04:29 ◼   ► you should still get the M4 shirt

00:04:31 ◼   ► because by the time you actually get an M4,

00:04:33 ◼   ► maybe we'll be selling M6 shirts, right?

00:04:35 ◼   ► So if you want a shirt to match your thing,

00:04:36 ◼   ► you should get it.

00:04:37 ◼   ► And like I said, this is a great line of chips

00:04:39 ◼   ► as we will discuss at further length in followup,

00:04:42 ◼   ► believe it or not, for like the third week in a row,

00:04:44 ◼   ► how great the M4 things are.

00:04:46 ◼   ► And the shirts, they're just M4 shirts,

00:04:47 ◼   ► but if you want to represent

00:04:49 ◼   ► and show that you're representing

00:04:51 ◼   ► one of the really good M chips,

00:04:52 ◼   ► not just because it's the biggest number that's available,

00:04:55 ◼   ► but this is a really good one.

00:04:56 ◼   ► So M4, M4 Pro, M4 Max, T-shirts, long sleeve, sweatshirts,

00:05:01 ◼   ► you name it, we've got it.

00:05:03 ◼   ► In black and also in a whole bunch of colors

00:05:05 ◼   ► with the monochrome M4 logo on them.

00:05:07 ◼   ► And of course we've got our ATP pullover hoodies

00:05:11 ◼   ► in various colors as well.

00:05:12 ◼   ► We've got the ATP pixels product

00:05:14 ◼   ► in a variety of different styles

00:05:16 ◼   ► that's proven to be very popular.

00:05:19 ◼   ► Long sleeve T-shirt, sweatshirt, all that good stuff.

00:05:21 ◼   ► And then we have our plain old ATP logo stuff

00:05:23 ◼   ► with colored shirts and also the black shirts

00:05:26 ◼   ► with the rainbow logo on it.

00:05:27 ◼   ► We have our zip hoodie, which is very popular.

00:05:30 ◼   ► My family loves the zip hoodie

00:05:31 ◼   ► when they destroy and or lose them,

00:05:33 ◼   ► they make me buy another one.

00:05:35 ◼   ► That's how much they like them.

00:05:36 ◼   ► It's one of the few pieces of branded merch

00:05:37 ◼   ► that my children are willing to wear

00:05:39 ◼   ► because the branding is discreet.

00:05:40 ◼   ► It's just a tiny little embroidered logo.

00:05:43 ◼   ► And otherwise it's just a really nice,

00:05:44 ◼   ► comfortable, high quality hoodie.

00:05:45 ◼   ► And that's what they love.

00:05:47 ◼   ► We've got the polo available.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Speaking of dressing for the job you want

00:05:50 ◼   ► or maybe dressing for the season you want

00:05:52 ◼   ► because it's short sleeve.

00:05:53 ◼   ► We've got a whole bunch of mugs left.

00:05:56 ◼   ► So if you want a cobalt ATP mug,

00:05:59 ◼   ► maybe get two because people drop them and break them

00:06:01 ◼   ► and then they want a replacement

00:06:02 ◼   ► and we don't sell them anymore in that color

00:06:04 ◼   ► or style and they're sad.

00:06:05 ◼   ► So always get backups and we've got the ATP hat.

00:06:08 ◼   ► So yeah, this is your last chance.

00:06:10 ◼   ► You're not gonna hear about this sale anymore

00:06:11 ◼   ► because by the time we record the next episode,

00:06:13 ◼   ► the sale will be over and it will be too late.

00:06:16 ◼   ► So get your stuff while you can.

00:06:18 ◼   ► ATP.fm/store, maybe I should mention that.

00:06:20 ◼   ► That's where you go, ATP.fm/store.

00:06:23 ◼   ► And if this was an actual podcast ad,

00:06:25 ◼   ► I would have to read it a third time,

00:06:26 ◼   ► but it's not, so I won't.

00:06:27 ◼   ► - Don't forget to go to ATP.fm/store.

00:06:31 ◼   ► That's ATP.fm/store.

00:06:33 ◼   ► One more time, this is just an exclusive offer

00:06:35 ◼   ► for our listeners, ATP.fm/store.

00:06:38 ◼   ► - Oh, we didn't even mention that.

00:06:39 ◼   ► Remember, if you are a member,

00:06:40 ◼   ► you get a 15% off discount code

00:06:42 ◼   ► that'll be on your member page.

00:06:44 ◼   ► If you're already logged in to ATP.fm

00:06:46 ◼   ► when you go to the store page,

00:06:47 ◼   ► it will fill it in automatically,

00:06:48 ◼   ► but you can always go to your member page

00:06:49 ◼   ► and copy and paste it.

00:06:50 ◼   ► We even make a little copy button

00:06:51 ◼   ► so you don't have to try to select text in web browser,

00:06:53 ◼   ► which is always ridiculous.

00:06:54 ◼   ► That's why these copy buttons are all over ATP.fm

00:06:57 ◼   ► because I hate trying to select text in a web page.

00:06:59 ◼   ► It's like the selection is all over the place

00:07:00 ◼   ► and you get like a space at the beginning end and stuff.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So we will give you a copy button.

00:07:04 ◼   ► And if you wanna become a member, just get a discount.

00:07:06 ◼   ► It's totally worthwhile to do so

00:07:08 ◼   ► if you can save more than the one month of membership costs.

00:07:10 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:07:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I will just pipe in very quickly

00:07:14 ◼   ► and do my annual, I guess, biannual reminder,

00:07:16 ◼   ► my common reminder that there is always,

00:07:20 ◼   ► always like 50 people that say,

00:07:22 ◼   ► "Haha, I forgot to do my order."

00:07:24 ◼   ► But there's also a handful of people

00:07:25 ◼   ► that legitimately say, "Oh no, oh no, I'm that person.

00:07:30 ◼   ► "It's me, I'm the problem, it's me."

00:07:33 ◼   ► There's nothing we can do.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Once the sale closes, the sale closes.

00:07:35 ◼   ► So don't be that person.

00:07:37 ◼   ► Don't be the one that has to come hat in hand,

00:07:39 ◼   ► Puss in Boots style, looking up at me

00:07:41 ◼   ► with your big gigantic eyes saying,

00:07:43 ◼   ► "Oh, but Casey, I forgot this time."

00:07:44 ◼   ► Don't be that person.

00:07:45 ◼   ► ATP.fm/store.

00:07:47 ◼   ► - I recently learned that was from a pop song,

00:07:49 ◼   ► but I have already forgotten which artist and song it was.

00:07:52 ◼   ► What's from a pop song?

00:07:53 ◼   ► - I'm the problem, it's me.

00:07:55 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, well, it's an obscure act.

00:07:57 ◼   ► You probably never heard of it.

00:07:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:07:59 ◼   ► - Oh God, let's move on.

00:08:00 ◼   ► - I might have gone to their concert depending on who it is.

00:08:03 ◼   ► I don't think you did.

00:08:03 ◼   ► You would remember it.

00:08:04 ◼   ► - Would I? - You would indeed.

00:08:06 ◼   ► Your wallet would remember it.

00:08:07 ◼   ► - Yes, it would.

00:08:08 ◼   ► - Oh, was it Taylor Swift?

00:08:09 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:08:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I definitely didn't do that.

00:08:11 ◼   ► - That's not the type of thing that would slip your mind.

00:08:13 ◼   ► - No, I did see Billie Eilish though.

00:08:15 ◼   ► - All right. - Oh, how was that?

00:08:16 ◼   ► - Honestly, excellent.

00:08:17 ◼   ► Like really good. - I don't doubt it.

00:08:19 ◼   ► - I'm assuming that was not at your request.

00:08:22 ◼   ► - Correct.

00:08:22 ◼   ► You bring enough people to fish concerts

00:08:24 ◼   ► and eventually you gotta go to a different one.

00:08:26 ◼   ► - It's payback time.

00:08:27 ◼   ► Well, I am not surprised that that was a very good show.

00:08:29 ◼   ► - Honestly, it was amazing.

00:08:31 ◼   ► I totally get why she's so popular.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Like there's very good reason.

00:08:37 ◼   ► It was very good.

00:08:38 ◼   ► - All right, let's move on before everyone writes us email

00:08:40 ◼   ► and let's start with Jason Sims who writes,

00:08:42 ◼   ► "Aperture was indeed developed from scratch by Apple."

00:08:46 ◼   ► I guess one of us, John, I suppose,

00:08:48 ◼   ► had said that it was a purchase.

00:08:50 ◼   ► - No, I just said I didn't remember.

00:08:51 ◼   ► Remember we were talking about Apple's various pro apps,

00:08:54 ◼   ► many of which were purchased from the outside,

00:08:56 ◼   ► like Logic and Shake and stuff.

00:08:58 ◼   ► And I said, "Aperture," I couldn't remember

00:09:00 ◼   ► if that was a purchase or developed in-house.

00:09:02 ◼   ► And we got a clarification, developed in-house.

00:09:04 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:09:05 ◼   ► Well, I appreciate it, Jason.

00:09:06 ◼   ► - And then canceled in-house.

00:09:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:09:09 ◼   ► - With regard to the MacBook Pro, Eric Roach

00:09:12 ◼   ► reminded us to point out that the plain M4 MacBook Pro

00:09:16 ◼   ► now supports two external displays

00:09:18 ◼   ► at up to 6K or 60 hertz over Thunderbolt,

00:09:22 ◼   ► or one 6K 60 hertz over Thunderbolt

00:09:24 ◼   ► and one 4K 144 hertz over HDMI.

00:09:28 ◼   ► The M3 MacBook Pro, by comparison,

00:09:30 ◼   ► the plain M3 MacBook Pro, not the M3 Pro, not the M3 Max,

00:09:33 ◼   ► but the plain one, supported only one external display

00:09:36 ◼   ► with up to 6K resolution at 60 hertz

00:09:38 ◼   ► and required you to close the lid to use a second display

00:09:40 ◼   ► with up to 5K resolution at 60 hertz.

00:09:43 ◼   ► - I can't remember if we mentioned this

00:09:44 ◼   ► on the thing's launch, or maybe we just, you know,

00:09:47 ◼   ► it folded into our past discussions

00:09:49 ◼   ► of the multiple display controllers on the M4.

00:09:51 ◼   ► But just to reiterate, one of the big limitations

00:09:53 ◼   ► that people didn't like about the plain M3 MacBook Pro

00:09:56 ◼   ► was it's not very good external display support.

00:09:58 ◼   ► You just got one external display.

00:09:59 ◼   ► And then halfway through the life of that product,

00:10:01 ◼   ► Apple said, "Oh, here's a software fix

00:10:03 ◼   ► "to let you have two external displays,

00:10:04 ◼   ► "but you gotta close the lid,

00:10:06 ◼   ► "because we take away the internal one

00:10:07 ◼   ► "when we give you the external one."

00:10:09 ◼   ► All those limitations are gone with the M4.

00:10:11 ◼   ► You get legit two external displays,

00:10:13 ◼   ► plus also still the one on the laptop,

00:10:15 ◼   ► which is pretty much what I think should be table stakes

00:10:19 ◼   ► for a bottom-of-the-line MacBook Pro, and now it is.

00:10:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, honestly, that baseline MacBook Pro

00:10:25 ◼   ► like that just has the M4 and not the M4 Pro chips,

00:10:28 ◼   ► that is now a pretty good option for a lot of people.

00:10:32 ◼   ► I think that competes well with the MacBook Air,

00:10:35 ◼   ► because it gives you the Pro screen, the Pro speakers,

00:10:39 ◼   ► the port on the right side, the SD card slot on the right.

00:10:43 ◼   ► It actually gives you a lot over the MacBook Air

00:10:46 ◼   ► for not a ton more money.

00:10:48 ◼   ► You do kind of pay for it in weight and thickness, but--

00:10:52 ◼   ► - But not much.

00:10:53 ◼   ► - That's a really good, yeah, that's a really good option

00:10:55 ◼   ► for a lot of people now.

00:10:56 ◼   ► And so I'm actually, I'm happy to see that product

00:11:00 ◼   ► no longer be this weird asterisk that you try

00:11:03 ◼   ► to convince people not to buy.

00:11:05 ◼   ► That's a product now that I could actually see myself

00:11:07 ◼   ► buying the equivalent in the future.

00:11:09 ◼   ► - And it starts at 16 gigs of RAM, and I don't know

00:11:11 ◼   ► if we emphasized that when we first talked about it,

00:11:13 ◼   ► but you just mentioned it in passing.

00:11:14 ◼   ► These things in the past have had two ports

00:11:16 ◼   ► only on one side, but now it has three ports,

00:11:19 ◼   ► so one of the ports on the other side.

00:11:20 ◼   ► And you might think, well, who cares?

00:11:21 ◼   ► It's the bottom of the line one,

00:11:24 ◼   ► how many ports do you really need?

00:11:25 ◼   ► Two is fine.

00:11:26 ◼   ► It's so convenient to have ports on both sides,

00:11:30 ◼   ► 'cause you never know what kind of desk setup

00:11:31 ◼   ► you're gonna be seeing, which side it's convenient

00:11:33 ◼   ► to get the power cable from, right?

00:11:35 ◼   ► If you have a USB-C power thing, you're not using

00:11:37 ◼   ► the MagSafe thing, 'cause MagSafe is still just on one side.

00:11:40 ◼   ► Yeah, there's nothing that you need to excuse

00:11:43 ◼   ► on the baseline one anymore.

00:11:44 ◼   ► It's got a great processor, it's got more ports

00:11:47 ◼   ► than it used to, it's got reasonable display support.

00:11:49 ◼   ► It is really a better, more expensive MacBook Air.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Of course, when the M4 MacBook Air comes out,

00:11:54 ◼   ► we'll see how that model shakes up,

00:11:55 ◼   ► but for now, it's a really impressive machine.

00:11:58 ◼   ► Yeah, honestly, it's a great option for a lot of people.

00:12:01 ◼   ► - With regard to the Mac Mini, we have quite a bit

00:12:05 ◼   ► of follow-up, and the bombshell that dropped,

00:12:07 ◼   ► I think it was sort of mentioned during Quinn's teardown,

00:12:11 ◼   ► which I think happened either right before

00:12:12 ◼   ► or right after we recorded, but then it has become

00:12:14 ◼   ► even more of a bombshell.

00:12:16 ◼   ► The new Mac Mini has quote-unquote modular storage.

00:12:19 ◼   ► So as it turns out, there are different setups and boards,

00:12:23 ◼   ► and we'll talk about that in a minute,

00:12:24 ◼   ► but all the different Mac Minis have their SSDs

00:12:28 ◼   ► on removable boards, which is not super-duper.

00:12:32 ◼   ► In fact, I would argue it isn't user-replaceable

00:12:34 ◼   ► unless you are really going spelunking,

00:12:37 ◼   ► but it makes it a lot more replaceable

00:12:39 ◼   ► than it ever had been before.

00:12:40 ◼   ► So Jon, can you tell us more about this?

00:12:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, so the modular storage, anyone who's familiar

00:12:44 ◼   ► with the inside of recent Apple Silicon Macs

00:12:47 ◼   ► will recognize the quote-unquote modular storage.

00:12:49 ◼   ► It's the same type of storage module that's used

00:12:52 ◼   ► in the Mac Studio, and also very similar to the one

00:12:54 ◼   ► that's used in the Mac Pro, including even the 2019 Mac Pro,

00:12:57 ◼   ► not even the Apple Silicon one.

00:12:59 ◼   ► It is a card that goes into a slot that has the,

00:13:04 ◼   ► you know, SSD NAND storage on it,

00:13:07 ◼   ► and that make you think, great,

00:13:09 ◼   ► storage is upgradable on these things.

00:13:11 ◼   ► And technically speaking, it kind of is.

00:13:14 ◼   ► We'll put some links in the show notes

00:13:15 ◼   ► to someone demonstrating what it takes

00:13:19 ◼   ► to upgrade the storage on a Mac Mini.

00:13:21 ◼   ► It's DOSDude1, which I think that name

00:13:23 ◼   ► is not quite appropriate, but it's fine.

00:13:25 ◼   ► - Your name is awesome.

00:13:26 ◼   ► - And also the same YouTuber has done upgrades

00:13:29 ◼   ► in the past with Mac Studio SSDs.

00:13:31 ◼   ► The short version is get out your soldering gun.

00:13:35 ◼   ► Because the way you, you can't buy those little modules.

00:13:40 ◼   ► They're not standard modules.

00:13:41 ◼   ► It's not like an M.2 module or NVMe type thing.

00:13:43 ◼   ► It's not standard at all.

00:13:44 ◼   ► It's an Apple proprietary thing.

00:13:46 ◼   ► You can't buy those Apple proprietary things.

00:13:48 ◼   ► You can find a used one like an eBay or something

00:13:50 ◼   ► and stick it in, but then in that case,

00:13:52 ◼   ► it still feels like it doesn't work

00:13:54 ◼   ► unless the NAND is actually blank.

00:13:56 ◼   ► So what DOSDude does is gets,

00:14:00 ◼   ► either takes the one that came with it

00:14:01 ◼   ► and desolders the NAND chips from it

00:14:04 ◼   ► and then buys blank, no data, nothing on them,

00:14:08 ◼   ► NAND chips and resolders them on top of the board.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Or if you look at the Mac Studio SSD upgrade video

00:14:13 ◼   ► from a year or two ago,

00:14:15 ◼   ► we'll put a timestamp link in there.

00:14:17 ◼   ► Someone made a custom printed circuit board

00:14:20 ◼   ► by looking at Apple's and saying,

00:14:21 ◼   ► I'm going to make my own empty printed circuit board

00:14:24 ◼   ► like that, so you could, in theory,

00:14:25 ◼   ► find that person in France

00:14:27 ◼   ► who made that custom circuit board, buy it from them,

00:14:29 ◼   ► find those blank NANDs that DOSDude found to buy somewhere,

00:14:33 ◼   ► buy those, solder the two of them together,

00:14:35 ◼   ► and voila, you have an empty storage module

00:14:38 ◼   ► that will work in a Mac Studio, maybe a Mac Pro,

00:14:41 ◼   ► and certain Mac Minis, which we'll get to in a second.

00:14:44 ◼   ► So it seems to me, at no point in this process

00:14:46 ◼   ► is anybody hacking any security key

00:14:49 ◼   ► or fooling some DRM encrypted or jailbreaking anything,

00:14:54 ◼   ► is just a question of how hard is it to get the parts.

00:14:57 ◼   ► So it seems like if someone wanted to sell

00:15:00 ◼   ► third-party SSD upgrades for the Mac Mini or the Mac Studio,

00:15:04 ◼   ► I don't see why they couldn't do

00:15:07 ◼   ► what the person in this video did,

00:15:08 ◼   ► which is find that guy in France

00:15:10 ◼   ► and buy his printed circuit board design

00:15:13 ◼   ► and mass produce it,

00:15:14 ◼   ► find where that guy bought those blank NAND modules for,

00:15:16 ◼   ► 'cause they're not like special Apple NAND modules,

00:15:18 ◼   ► or if they are, he found a place to buy them,

00:15:20 ◼   ► and then combine them, put them in a little retail box,

00:15:24 ◼   ► and say, "Hey, guess what?

00:15:25 ◼   ► "Would you like to upgrade your Mac Mini to a bigger SSD?

00:15:27 ◼   ► "We'll sell it to you for half the price

00:15:29 ◼   ► "that Apple sells it."

00:15:31 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure why that market hasn't opened up.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Maybe it's because there's not enough people

00:15:34 ◼   ► who own these devices to make it worthwhile

00:15:36 ◼   ► to do what I just described,

00:15:37 ◼   ► but technically speaking, you'll see two YouTube videos

00:15:40 ◼   ► where it is literally possible to upgrade the storage

00:15:42 ◼   ► on your Mac using those little card thingies,

00:15:45 ◼   ► which is good, I guess, but like I said,

00:15:47 ◼   ► since 2019 with the Mac Pro,

00:15:50 ◼   ► the little module things have been upgradeable.

00:15:53 ◼   ► It just hasn't been a thriving,

00:15:55 ◼   ► I'm not gonna say legitimate,

00:15:56 ◼   ► thriving normal third-party market for upgradeable storage.

00:16:01 ◼   ► You really have to be kind of like a do-it-yourselfer,

00:16:03 ◼   ► or someone who wants to use a soldering iron,

00:16:05 ◼   ► or someone who wants to cruise eBay for used parts

00:16:08 ◼   ► and deal with all those things,

00:16:09 ◼   ► and it's all sorts of weird caveats and stuff,

00:16:11 ◼   ► so it's not ideal, but Apple, look,

00:16:15 ◼   ► if you're not gonna solder it to the board,

00:16:17 ◼   ► A, you should sell them separately yourself

00:16:19 ◼   ► at your own ridiculous prices,

00:16:20 ◼   ► 'cause at least that gives people an option of upgrading.

00:16:22 ◼   ► If you could buy an upgrade from Apple

00:16:25 ◼   ► at ridiculous prices, at least you'd feel comfortable

00:16:26 ◼   ► that I know this is gonna work,

00:16:27 ◼   ► and B, it would be great if you just let third parties

00:16:30 ◼   ► build these things and sell them.

00:16:31 ◼   ► Remember when third parties used to be able to sell parts

00:16:33 ◼   ► that you can put aside Macs to make them better?

00:16:34 ◼   ► Remember, Casey, when you could buy third-party RAM

00:16:36 ◼   ► and stick it in your Mac,

00:16:37 ◼   ► and there'd be no problems whatsoever?

00:16:39 ◼   ► - Did it make it better, though?

00:16:40 ◼   ► All right.

00:16:42 ◼   ► - For years, for people who are newer Mac users,

00:16:44 ◼   ► for years and years, for a good sort of middle portion

00:16:47 ◼   ► of the recent Mac era, it was standard practice

00:16:52 ◼   ► to tell people, if you were a tech nerd,

00:16:55 ◼   ► oh, hey, buy this Mac, but buy it with the minimum

00:16:57 ◼   ► everything, the minimum RAM and the minimum storage,

00:17:00 ◼   ► and then when you get it, buy a third-party RAM upgrade

00:17:03 ◼   ► and a third-party storage upgrade,

00:17:04 ◼   ► and your total cost will still be less

00:17:07 ◼   ► than if you had bought those upgrades from Apple.

00:17:08 ◼   ► This whole expensive upgrade thing is not new for Apple.

00:17:11 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, that was how I bought my first few Macs,

00:17:13 ◼   ► 'cause I would never be able to afford

00:17:14 ◼   ► the Apple upgrade prices.

00:17:16 ◼   ► You know, this is one of the things we very much lost

00:17:18 ◼   ► going to the modern everything-soldered-on-the-board

00:17:21 ◼   ► kind of era that used to be able to just buy the base model

00:17:25 ◼   ► and go on Newegg or Amazon and buy some components

00:17:28 ◼   ► and stick 'em in, and it was fine.

00:17:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's not entirely Apple being super evil

00:17:32 ◼   ► by soldering all these things to the board.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Lots of things used to be replaceable.

00:17:35 ◼   ► Cell phone batteries all used to be easily replaceable.

00:17:38 ◼   ► They're not really anymore.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Laptop batteries all used to be easily replaceable.

00:17:41 ◼   ► They're not anymore.

00:17:42 ◼   ► It's not just Apple.

00:17:43 ◼   ► It's the industry.

00:17:43 ◼   ► There's reasons for this.

00:17:44 ◼   ► It's more reliable.

00:17:45 ◼   ► It's smaller.

00:17:46 ◼   ► It's thinner.

00:17:47 ◼   ► It's more power-efficient, yada, yada.

00:17:48 ◼   ► But when Apple does make something like, say,

00:17:50 ◼   ► a desktop computer where they have enough room

00:17:52 ◼   ► to make removable storage and they choose to do so,

00:17:55 ◼   ► like the Mac Studio, like the Mac Pro,

00:17:57 ◼   ► and now also like the Mac Mini,

00:17:58 ◼   ► if you're gonna make modular storage, Apple,

00:18:02 ◼   ► like give consumers the benefit of modular storage.

00:18:05 ◼   ► Again, even if it's only Apple selling the upgrades

00:18:07 ◼   ► at their own ridiculous prices,

00:18:09 ◼   ► Apple would not be losing any margin.

00:18:11 ◼   ► It just makes it more flexible.

00:18:12 ◼   ► It's one of the benefits of desktop computers

00:18:14 ◼   ► is they can be larger, take more power.

00:18:16 ◼   ► You have enough room for removable stuff inside them.

00:18:19 ◼   ► They didn't do it with the SOC.

00:18:21 ◼   ► They didn't do it with the RAM.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Like, you know, that all makes sense

00:18:23 ◼   ► given the way the Apple Silicon works,

00:18:25 ◼   ► but they did do it with the storage.

00:18:26 ◼   ► And it's kind of a shame for it to remain the realm

00:18:29 ◼   ► of people who are comfortable desoldering chips

00:18:32 ◼   ► and everything, 'cause it's not easy.

00:18:34 ◼   ► Watch these videos.

00:18:35 ◼   ► It's not the type of thing that you'll just do

00:18:36 ◼   ► in two seconds.

00:18:37 ◼   ► It takes skill and care, and you'll probably screw it up.

00:18:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think the benefit of these SSD modules

00:18:44 ◼   ► being socketed now is not really for us to change them.

00:18:49 ◼   ► It's to make it cheaper and easier for Apple to change them

00:18:52 ◼   ► in the case of service.

00:18:53 ◼   ► So like, you know, if in four years your SSD dies,

00:18:57 ◼   ► this is probably gonna be a cheaper repair

00:18:59 ◼   ► that Apple would have to do to repair it

00:19:01 ◼   ► than replacing the entire logic board,

00:19:02 ◼   ► which is what they would have to do before.

00:19:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, and David Shaw points out in the chat

00:19:06 ◼   ► that for the Mac Pro, you can, in fact,

00:19:08 ◼   ► buy Apple-branded SSD upgrades at Apple ridiculous prices.

00:19:13 ◼   ► So it's not unprecedented. - Oh my good grief.

00:19:15 ◼   ► Look at this.

00:19:17 ◼   ► - I mean, they cost what you would think they cost.

00:19:18 ◼   ► They cost exactly the same as if you can configure

00:19:20 ◼   ► the machine with it, which is to say

00:19:22 ◼   ► six, seven, eight times the real cost.

00:19:24 ◼   ► But you can buy them, and you can be sure

00:19:26 ◼   ► that they'll work because they're from Apple.

00:19:28 ◼   ► Gracious.

00:19:29 ◼   ► - $2,800.

00:19:31 ◼   ► $2,800 for an eight terabyte SSD array.

00:19:35 ◼   ► - Or two terabyte for $1,000.

00:19:38 ◼   ► - That's how much storage costs, right?

00:19:39 ◼   ► $1,000 for two terabytes?

00:19:40 ◼   ► That's accurate, right? - Oh my god.

00:19:42 ◼   ► - No, is that not?

00:19:43 ◼   ► - Yet more reasons why the Mac Pro is trash.

00:19:45 ◼   ► Am I right, am I right?

00:19:46 ◼   ► - $1,000 for two terabytes.

00:19:48 ◼   ► - I'm playing Mac Pro's trash, so we can all agree.

00:19:51 ◼   ► Anyways.

00:19:52 ◼   ► - That module really does look very similar

00:19:54 ◼   ► to the one that's in the Mac.

00:19:55 ◼   ► I think it's probably exactly the same module

00:19:56 ◼   ► that's in the Mac Studio and some Mac Minis.

00:19:59 ◼   ► - All right, so from our friend Paul Haddad,

00:20:02 ◼   ► who is the author, one of the authors of Tweetbot,

00:20:05 ◼   ► and may it rest in peace, and Ivory, and so on and so forth.

00:20:08 ◼   ► Paul got a couple of Minis,

00:20:10 ◼   ► I think with the intention of returning one, if not both.

00:20:12 ◼   ► And so Paul had some toots about this.

00:20:15 ◼   ► Paul writes, "The M4 Mini Pro SSD is faster

00:20:17 ◼   ► at comparable sizes compared to the M4 Mini,

00:20:20 ◼   ► the M4 plane Mini, if you will."

00:20:22 ◼   ► And there's some links we'll put in the show notes

00:20:24 ◼   ► with different toots of his that demonstrate this.

00:20:27 ◼   ► Paul continues, "I use the SSD benchmark results

00:20:30 ◼   ► from Tom's hardware for the 512 gig M4 Mac Mini,

00:20:34 ◼   ► then compared it to my M4 Pro Mac Mini

00:20:36 ◼   ► with the same size SSD.

00:20:38 ◼   ► The M4 plane at 512 gigs from Tom's guide

00:20:42 ◼   ► is 3,437 megabytes per second read, 3,017.3 write.

00:20:47 ◼   ► In comparison to the M4 Pro that Paul has,

00:20:51 ◼   ► which is at also 512 gigabytes, 5,085.4 megabytes

00:20:56 ◼   ► as compared to 3,437 for read,

00:20:59 ◼   ► and 5,397 for write as compared to 3,017.

00:21:04 ◼   ► So again, 5,085 instead of 3,437,

00:21:08 ◼   ► and 5,397 instead of 3,017."

00:21:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this was the difficulty of like,

00:21:13 ◼   ► we're trying to suss us out going back and forth

00:21:15 ◼   ► on Mastodon, it's like, benchmarks are weird

00:21:18 ◼   ► 'cause you really kind of want to run the benchmarks

00:21:20 ◼   ► on like the same machine or at the same time

00:21:23 ◼   ► or in the same environment at the same temperature.

00:21:26 ◼   ► It shouldn't be that big of a deal for storage,

00:21:28 ◼   ► but I'm not entirely sure what explains this.

00:21:30 ◼   ► So very often you'll see different SSD sizes

00:21:32 ◼   ► at different speeds because sometimes very larger sizes

00:21:35 ◼   ► will have like four chips instead of two

00:21:37 ◼   ► and you can read and write them all in parallel.

00:21:39 ◼   ► And these speed tests are always like,

00:21:41 ◼   ► what is the most fastest that I can shove on there?

00:21:44 ◼   ► It's only kind of a realistic test

00:21:45 ◼   ► if you're transferring individual very large files

00:21:49 ◼   ► because otherwise the overhead of dealing with all

00:21:51 ◼   ► the individual file metadata will swamp the transfer rate.

00:21:54 ◼   ► But it's just like, what if I'm, you know,

00:21:55 ◼   ► what if you care about like copying huge video files

00:21:59 ◼   ► or reading and writing huge video files, you know,

00:22:01 ◼   ► in a video editor or something,

00:22:02 ◼   ► that's where you might care about this

00:22:04 ◼   ► and this, you know, Blackmagic disc speed test

00:22:06 ◼   ► try to measure this.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Why would the same size SSD though be faster on an M4 Pro

00:22:12 ◼   ► than it is on an M4?

00:22:13 ◼   ► I'm not sure what explains that.

00:22:15 ◼   ► Is it a different NAND chip?

00:22:17 ◼   ► Does the M4 Pro have more, have a wider path to NAND

00:22:22 ◼   ► than the plain M4?

00:22:23 ◼   ► I would love for somebody who is more intimately familiar

00:22:25 ◼   ► with these to explain this.

00:22:26 ◼   ► It could just be that, you know,

00:22:27 ◼   ► all that benchmark test was run with, you know,

00:22:30 ◼   ► the benchmark setup was different

00:22:32 ◼   ► or they ran a different part of the test or something like,

00:22:36 ◼   ► so that's why I put links in the show notes

00:22:37 ◼   ► to these two results.

00:22:38 ◼   ► This is the best we could do

00:22:39 ◼   ► because no one had these two machines sitting there.

00:22:41 ◼   ► Someone had an M4, someone had an M4 Pro,

00:22:43 ◼   ► we were collecting the results.

00:22:45 ◼   ► You know, 3000 to 5000 is a pretty big difference.

00:22:48 ◼   ► And so if you care about that,

00:22:50 ◼   ► maybe like benchmark the machine you're planning on buying

00:22:53 ◼   ► before you buy it.

00:22:54 ◼   ► But practically speaking, if you're just,

00:22:55 ◼   ► if you're not doing anything that cares about

00:22:57 ◼   ► the absolute fastest sequential read and write speed,

00:23:00 ◼   ► you probably don't care too much about this.

00:23:02 ◼   ► - All right, then iFixit did their tear down,

00:23:04 ◼   ► which is only like five or six minutes long.

00:23:06 ◼   ► And you can see in here,

00:23:07 ◼   ► and this is what I was alluding to earlier,

00:23:08 ◼   ► that the SSD modules are different

00:23:10 ◼   ► between the M4 Mac Mini and the M4 Pro Mac Mini.

00:23:15 ◼   ► In fact, the M4 module looks very, very similar

00:23:19 ◼   ► to the Mac Pro module that you were talking about earlier,

00:23:22 ◼   ► John.

00:23:23 ◼   ► - The SUDIA module.

00:23:24 ◼   ► - Is it okay?

00:23:25 ◼   ► But the M4 Pro looks quite a bit different.

00:23:27 ◼   ► But you can see the differences in their tear down.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Additionally, there's actually,

00:23:32 ◼   ► and this is super cool, no sarcasm,

00:23:35 ◼   ► this is super freaking cool.

00:23:36 ◼   ► Maybe this has always existed for other machines

00:23:38 ◼   ► and I didn't realize it,

00:23:38 ◼   ► but there is an actual support document

00:23:41 ◼   ► that talks about how a user could replace the SSD module.

00:23:45 ◼   ► And of course it says, before you begin,

00:23:47 ◼   ► remove the following parts,

00:23:48 ◼   ► bottom cover, antenna plate, and fan,

00:23:49 ◼   ► which is not an insignificant process,

00:23:52 ◼   ► but they link to the instructions for each of these things

00:23:55 ◼   ► and then they tell you exactly how to do the SSD.

00:23:57 ◼   ► And I am here for this.

00:23:59 ◼   ► Again, perhaps this was something that existed

00:24:01 ◼   ► and I wasn't aware, but this is super cool.

00:24:03 ◼   ► It is worth looking at this write up on Apple's website

00:24:06 ◼   ► just to see how well documented it is.

00:24:08 ◼   ► - I'm giving a little bit of side eye though,

00:24:10 ◼   ► because I've watched a lot of Mac Mini tear downs

00:24:11 ◼   ► at this point, and the bottom cover, which is plastic,

00:24:15 ◼   ► which is where the power button is,

00:24:16 ◼   ► that bottom plastic cover,

00:24:18 ◼   ► it has four like little pin clip thingies

00:24:22 ◼   ► that you have to unclip and also glue, 'cause why not?

00:24:26 ◼   ► And I have seen at least one YouTuber

00:24:28 ◼   ► crack the plastic bottom while trying to pry it up

00:24:32 ◼   ► with those little guitar picks sort of like little thingies

00:24:34 ◼   ► that iFix it uses.

00:24:35 ◼   ► It is a thin plastic bottom cover.

00:24:38 ◼   ► Why is it glued?

00:24:39 ◼   ► The thing's not waterproof.

00:24:40 ◼   ► Do you need to glue it?

00:24:42 ◼   ► Like they could have just screwed the bottom end,

00:24:44 ◼   ► but then you'd have visible screws, so fine.

00:24:45 ◼   ► You don't wanna use screws.

00:24:46 ◼   ► They use those little pin thingies.

00:24:47 ◼   ► Are the pin thingies not sufficiently strong

00:24:49 ◼   ► that they have to glue it?

00:24:50 ◼   ► When you put it back, you're not gonna glue it.

00:24:52 ◼   ► No one's gonna buy a little stick of the special Apple glue

00:24:55 ◼   ► and put it around the rim to glue the thing back together

00:24:57 ◼   ► if you're doing it at home.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Maybe if they'd repaired it at an Apple repair center,

00:25:00 ◼   ► they would do that, but you're not going to.

00:25:02 ◼   ► So getting the bottom off these things is,

00:25:05 ◼   ► I feel like needlessly unfriendly.

00:25:07 ◼   ► iFixes didn't even make too much of a mention of it

00:25:09 ◼   ► 'cause they're so used to prying apart things

00:25:10 ◼   ► that are glued together, and this is actually an easy one

00:25:12 ◼   ► compared to opening up a phone or an iPad or something.

00:25:15 ◼   ► But geez, like it's a aluminum square.

00:25:20 ◼   ► With a plastic thing on the bottom.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Just let me unscrew the bottom and take it off.

00:25:24 ◼   ► Or make it waterproof or something.

00:25:26 ◼   ► I don't know, something to defend against Casey

00:25:28 ◼   ► and all the strings that he's gonna smell on his Mac Mini.

00:25:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:25:32 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's kind of a shame,

00:25:33 ◼   ► but it is nice to give the instructions.

00:25:35 ◼   ► And it's pretty easy to get to

00:25:36 ◼   ► once you pull out all that other stuff.

00:25:38 ◼   ► One of the reasons I think the M4 Pro module is different

00:25:43 ◼   ► is because if you look at the images

00:25:45 ◼   ► from Apple's repair guide or the teardowns,

00:25:48 ◼   ► you'll see that the M4 Pro Mac Mini

00:25:52 ◼   ► is different on the inside.

00:25:53 ◼   ► The M4 Pro SoC is just plain bigger than the M4, right?

00:25:57 ◼   ► And therefore it has a bigger heat spreader on it

00:25:59 ◼   ► and a bigger heat pipe.

00:26:01 ◼   ► And that bigger heat pipe leads to a larger copper heat sink

00:26:04 ◼   ► with more fins, kind of like on the Mac Studio

00:26:06 ◼   ► when you got the lesser models,

00:26:08 ◼   ► you would get a smaller aluminum heat sink.

00:26:10 ◼   ► And when you got the ultra, you'd get a bigger copper one.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Same deal here.

00:26:15 ◼   ► And the bigger SoC takes up a little bit more room

00:26:19 ◼   ► so that the place where the SSD goes on the plain M4

00:26:23 ◼   ► is a little bit too narrow.

00:26:24 ◼   ► So they put it kind of on the side

00:26:26 ◼   ► in a skinnier little card.

00:26:28 ◼   ► The connector is the same.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Like the connector is exactly the way it was,

00:26:33 ◼   ► but it's in a different place and it's narrower, right?

00:26:36 ◼   ► So iFixit actually tried swapping them.

00:26:40 ◼   ► And first they just took like an SSD from one M4 Mac Mini

00:26:44 ◼   ► and put it into another M4 Mac Mini and that worked.

00:26:47 ◼   ► So if you have two Mac Minis and just one SSD,

00:26:49 ◼   ► you can swap it between them and it'll be fine.

00:26:51 ◼   ► But then they tried to put a plain M4 SSD

00:26:54 ◼   ► into an M4 Pro Mac Mini and it sort of fits.

00:26:57 ◼   ► Like you can, the connectors are the same

00:26:59 ◼   ► and you can kind of shove it in there,

00:27:00 ◼   ► but they couldn't get that to work right.

00:27:02 ◼   ► So maybe that's not supportive for some reason,

00:27:04 ◼   ► or maybe the connector was just not connecting all the way

00:27:06 ◼   ► 'cause it was on an angle.

00:27:07 ◼   ► It wasn't clear.

00:27:08 ◼   ► They didn't detail their experience,

00:27:10 ◼   ► but these are two different modules.

00:27:12 ◼   ► And if and when Apple does sell these modules,

00:27:15 ◼   ► make sure you're buying the right one

00:27:17 ◼   ► for your specific Mac Mini.

00:27:18 ◼   ► - All right, so we have a couple other things

00:27:20 ◼   ► we need to mention.

00:27:21 ◼   ► First of all, there are two NAND chips on the 256 gig model.

00:27:25 ◼   ► I guess they're two 128 gig chips, one would assume.

00:27:28 ◼   ► And additionally, the WiFi and Bluetooth are on separate,

00:27:32 ◼   ► on a separate PCB, which is a little baby circular one,

00:27:35 ◼   ► which was kind of interesting.

00:27:36 ◼   ► And that's the one that's mounted

00:27:38 ◼   ► like in the center of the fan, right?

00:27:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, on the very bottom.

00:27:40 ◼   ► So the two NAND chips is important.

00:27:42 ◼   ► I mean, it's commonplace now,

00:27:45 ◼   ► but for a while back in the earlier Apple Silicon things,

00:27:49 ◼   ► they would ship the lowest end storage

00:27:52 ◼   ► with a single 256 gig NAND chip instead of two 128s.

00:27:56 ◼   ► And it would be roughly half the speed

00:27:58 ◼   ► because you can read and write to both the chips

00:28:00 ◼   ► at the same time.

00:28:00 ◼   ► And they backtracked on that and fixed it.

00:28:03 ◼   ► And just to let people know going forward,

00:28:06 ◼   ► the Mac Mini also does not do

00:28:08 ◼   ► that terrible half speed SSD thing.

00:28:09 ◼   ► So even if you get the base storage,

00:28:11 ◼   ► you get two 128s, so it should not be a half speed drive.

00:28:14 ◼   ► It'll still be slower than the 512 and the one terabyte

00:28:16 ◼   ► and all that other stuff,

00:28:17 ◼   ► but it won't be like half as fast as it could be.

00:28:19 ◼   ► So that's great.

00:28:20 ◼   ► And the WiFi and Bluetooth being on a separate,

00:28:22 ◼   ► tiny little adorable circular printed circuit board,

00:28:25 ◼   ► just really highlights what a shame it is

00:28:29 ◼   ► that this thing doesn't have WiFi seven, right?

00:28:32 ◼   ► 'Cause it's not like they need to do like a big revision

00:28:35 ◼   ► to the board, like at any time they could have just,

00:28:39 ◼   ► they could have designed the whole Mac Mini logic board

00:28:41 ◼   ► and had it all ready to go.

00:28:42 ◼   ► And that's just a question of what little circular

00:28:45 ◼   ► WiFi Bluetooth thing do we attach to it?

00:28:48 ◼   ► And that could have been at the last minute,

00:28:49 ◼   ► oh, put a WiFi seven in there, but it's not.

00:28:51 ◼   ► So I guess it means that the next version of this,

00:28:54 ◼   ► it should be easy for it to get WiFi seven

00:28:56 ◼   ► and Bluetooth 5.4 or whatever,

00:28:58 ◼   ► because it is entirely separate.

00:29:00 ◼   ► Like it's an adorable,

00:29:02 ◼   ► like quarter size printed circuit board

00:29:04 ◼   ► that has all that stuff in it.

00:29:05 ◼   ► And it's just connected with antennas and wires

00:29:07 ◼   ► and everything.

00:29:08 ◼   ► And it's at the bottom just so it can get away

00:29:10 ◼   ► from the other components,

00:29:11 ◼   ► because all of the wireless stuff

00:29:12 ◼   ► and this aluminum little cube thing

00:29:16 ◼   ► comes out the bottom where it's plastic,

00:29:18 ◼   ► where it's radio transparent.

00:29:19 ◼   ► So the wireless stuff isn't nestled into the aluminum.

00:29:22 ◼   ► There's no like plastic lines,

00:29:24 ◼   ► like on all the iPhones on the top,

00:29:26 ◼   ► all the wireless stuff has to come out of the bottom.

00:29:28 ◼   ► So that's why the circuit board is down there,

00:29:29 ◼   ► but it does make it very modular.

00:29:32 ◼   ► - All right, and then we had some questions

00:29:34 ◼   ► with regard to external storage.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Peter Welton writes,

00:29:36 ◼   ► "In an effort to bypass the silly overpriced

00:29:38 ◼   ► storage upgrades, the obvious move is an external SSD.

00:29:41 ◼   ► What I've never really understood is

00:29:42 ◼   ► what is the best setup of files and libraries, et cetera,

00:29:45 ◼   ► between an internal 256 and a larger external drive?

00:29:48 ◼   ► How would you choose which data to put where

00:29:50 ◼   ► so that you could get the best performance?"

00:29:52 ◼   ► And additionally, Dennis Lee writes,

00:29:54 ◼   ► "Do you have a recommended best practice

00:29:55 ◼   ► for how to operate a Mac with the base level of storage

00:29:57 ◼   ► in a much larger secondary disk?

00:30:00 ◼   ► Do you make sim links between the file system

00:30:02 ◼   ► and folders on the secondary disk,

00:30:03 ◼   ► or do you just turn the secondary disk

00:30:04 ◼   ► into the boot drive?"

00:30:06 ◼   ► - So this is always tricky.

00:30:08 ◼   ► It's kind of a shame that Apple doesn't sell the Mac Mini

00:30:13 ◼   ► with an internal SSD so small

00:30:16 ◼   ► that the only thing you really put on it

00:30:18 ◼   ► is the operating system.

00:30:19 ◼   ► - Wait, please don't advocate for them to ship smaller SSDs.

00:30:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:30:24 ◼   ► - That would be an interesting thing that they could do.

00:30:26 ◼   ► A little bit of the trouble of this is that

00:30:29 ◼   ► some applications don't like it

00:30:32 ◼   ► when their stuff is not on the boot drive.

00:30:34 ◼   ► Some Apple applications historically have not liked it

00:30:37 ◼   ► when their stuff was not on the boot drive.

00:30:38 ◼   ► And you may be asking yourself,

00:30:39 ◼   ► "Which applications is that?

00:30:41 ◼   ► How do I tell?

00:30:42 ◼   ► Is there some webpage I can go to

00:30:43 ◼   ► where Apple will tell me that I shouldn't put

00:30:45 ◼   ► my photos library in external drive

00:30:47 ◼   ► or it is supported and I can do that?

00:30:49 ◼   ► Where do I find these answers?"

00:30:50 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:30:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:30:52 ◼   ► I wish Apple was more upfront about that.

00:30:54 ◼   ► At this point, Apple has done it so much and so often,

00:30:57 ◼   ► it should be like in the get info screen

00:30:59 ◼   ► on the finder that says,

00:31:00 ◼   ► "Just FYI, this thing really wants you to have it stuff

00:31:03 ◼   ► on the boot drive, otherwise it's gonna flip out."

00:31:06 ◼   ► I think most applications don't care about this,

00:31:10 ◼   ► but it's worth looking into.

00:31:12 ◼   ► In particular, photos is the one you probably care about

00:31:13 ◼   ► if you have a big photo library

00:31:14 ◼   ► because that's one of the biggest things

00:31:16 ◼   ► a lot of people have on their Macs.

00:31:17 ◼   ► And if you want to download originals

00:31:18 ◼   ► from your iCloud photo library,

00:31:21 ◼   ► you better make sure that it is supported in external drives.

00:31:23 ◼   ► I actually don't actually know the answer

00:31:24 ◼   ► because mine is on the boot drive,

00:31:26 ◼   ► but I believe it is currently supported.

00:31:28 ◼   ► I think maybe it's not supported to have it

00:31:30 ◼   ► on like a NAS or something,

00:31:31 ◼   ► but I think it's supported on an external drive.

00:31:34 ◼   ► But anyway, that's one thing to look into

00:31:36 ◼   ► is look at the applications that you use

00:31:38 ◼   ► and how much data they have

00:31:40 ◼   ► and see which ones you would like to be on an external drive

00:31:42 ◼   ► and then check whether that is supported

00:31:45 ◼   ► with the application vendor.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Worst case, you could probably email support or something

00:31:48 ◼   ► and find out for each application,

00:31:50 ◼   ► "Hey, can I put your library, your data, your whatever

00:31:52 ◼   ► on the external drive?"

00:31:54 ◼   ► Keep in mind that some applications do stuff

00:31:56 ◼   ► like have cache folders and things

00:31:58 ◼   ► that you don't get to pick where they live

00:32:00 ◼   ► if the program is not very configurable.

00:32:02 ◼   ► So they're just gonna go on your boot drive

00:32:04 ◼   ► whether you want it or not.

00:32:05 ◼   ► And those might be big.

00:32:06 ◼   ► So you really do have to figure out

00:32:08 ◼   ► how much stuff you're gonna have on your internal drive.

00:32:11 ◼   ► But in general, I would say in this scenario

00:32:15 ◼   ► where you're gonna have boot drive

00:32:17 ◼   ► and then bigger external drive on a desktop

00:32:19 ◼   ► that's permanently connected,

00:32:20 ◼   ► I would try to put everything on the external one if I could,

00:32:23 ◼   ► just so I wouldn't have to guess where things are

00:32:25 ◼   ► and only put things on the boot drive

00:32:27 ◼   ► that have to be there, right?

00:32:29 ◼   ► Now, how do you accomplish that?

00:32:30 ◼   ► Dennis's question, should I make SIM links?

00:32:32 ◼   ► Should I make aliases?

00:32:33 ◼   ► Sure, I make hard links to directories.

00:32:35 ◼   ► How should I weave these things together?

00:32:37 ◼   ► Should I do the weird overlay mount thing or whatever?

00:32:39 ◼   ► It's gonna be annoying.

00:32:41 ◼   ► Don't use SIM links.

00:32:42 ◼   ► You'll be sad.

00:32:44 ◼   ► Lots of programs don't handle them correctly.

00:32:47 ◼   ► You're not gonna get an answer from support

00:32:49 ◼   ► about whether they do that or not.

00:32:51 ◼   ► You just have to find a way,

00:32:52 ◼   ► you just have to hope that your programs that you care about

00:32:54 ◼   ► let you put your big stuff on the external drive.

00:32:58 ◼   ► It's gonna be annoying

00:32:59 ◼   ► 'cause your documents folder is gonna be on the boot drive

00:33:01 ◼   ► and you're like, "Don't try to move your,"

00:33:02 ◼   ► this is another thing,

00:33:03 ◼   ► "Don't try to move your home directory

00:33:04 ◼   ► to the external drive."

00:33:05 ◼   ► Yes, you can do that, but you'll be sad.

00:33:07 ◼   ► It's just not well supported by Apple

00:33:10 ◼   ► and you're gonna have to fidget with stuff.

00:33:12 ◼   ► So this is one of the reasons why people who have the money

00:33:17 ◼   ► pay the stupid Apple tax to get the gigantic internal drive

00:33:20 ◼   ► because dealing with it on an external drive is annoying.

00:33:23 ◼   ► The best case scenario is just data files that are there.

00:33:27 ◼   ► So in that case,

00:33:29 ◼   ► nothing's ever gonna be reading them except for yourself

00:33:31 ◼   ► and you can put an alias in your documents folder

00:33:34 ◼   ► to your external drive or every time you save,

00:33:36 ◼   ► you can just save and select your external drive

00:33:38 ◼   ► from the OpenSave dialog.

00:33:39 ◼   ► If it's all just like data files,

00:33:40 ◼   ► like video files or whatever,

00:33:42 ◼   ► that should all be fine on an external drive.

00:33:44 ◼   ► But if it's like libraries or things that belong to stuff

00:33:47 ◼   ► like my iTunes library, for example,

00:33:50 ◼   ► it's not an external drive,

00:33:51 ◼   ► but it's also not in my home directory.

00:33:53 ◼   ► And so far that hasn't blown up in my face,

00:33:55 ◼   ► but every individual app has a different attitude,

00:33:59 ◼   ► let's say, towards you trying to make it store its stuff

00:34:02 ◼   ► somewhere other than where it wants to.

00:34:04 ◼   ► And you just have to make sure it's well supported.

00:34:05 ◼   ► So I don't mean to discourage people from doing this.

00:34:08 ◼   ► It can be done, but it is going to be annoying.

00:34:11 ◼   ► There is no seamless magic way

00:34:13 ◼   ► where you can just have these merge

00:34:14 ◼   ► and it just looks like one big disk.

00:34:15 ◼   ► I'll just make a like transparent fusion drive

00:34:18 ◼   ► out of my internal SSD.

00:34:19 ◼   ► Like lots of things are technically possible,

00:34:22 ◼   ► but they're just not well supported enough

00:34:23 ◼   ► to recommend to somebody unless you're a nerd

00:34:25 ◼   ► and you just want to do it because you think it's fun.

00:34:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

00:34:28 ◼   ► I understand the motivation behind this,

00:34:30 ◼   ► but I don't think I would recommend it.

00:34:33 ◼   ► I really don't.

00:34:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, the problem is like you are,

00:34:36 ◼   ► if you're doing this, you are entering territory

00:34:39 ◼   ► that the vendors of all your software mostly don't test

00:34:43 ◼   ► or even use themselves very much.

00:34:45 ◼   ► You know, Apple is one of many.

00:34:46 ◼   ► Like you can tell, if you try to do this,

00:34:49 ◼   ► you can tell that like, oh, no one in Apple does this.

00:34:51 ◼   ► It becomes very obvious very quickly.

00:34:54 ◼   ► And there are some things that do work well.

00:34:56 ◼   ► You know, John mentioned the iTunes library

00:34:59 ◼   ► that I have found whenever I've needed to do that,

00:35:02 ◼   ► that does work well.

00:35:03 ◼   ► Photos, you can move your photos library,

00:35:07 ◼   ► but I did have that problem a year or two ago

00:35:09 ◼   ► when it started taking up huge amounts of space

00:35:13 ◼   ► on the internal drive for some kind of like unclaimed

00:35:15 ◼   ► or like unallocated or untracked space usage.

00:35:18 ◼   ► It was really weird.

00:35:19 ◼   ► So like it seems like you can do it again,

00:35:22 ◼   ► but like you're just, you're gonna run into a lot

00:35:24 ◼   ► of little annoyances and bugs and untested

00:35:28 ◼   ► or under-tested conditions.

00:35:30 ◼   ► And so, you know, you have to balance that

00:35:34 ◼   ► with like how much do you want to do this?

00:35:36 ◼   ► How much do you need to do this?

00:35:37 ◼   ► Like it will cost you something.

00:35:40 ◼   ► So, you know, you gotta weigh all that when you're deciding.

00:35:43 ◼   ► - And speaking of cost, some other people also asked

00:35:45 ◼   ► about performance.

00:35:46 ◼   ► Is the external SSD gonna have worse performance

00:35:49 ◼   ► than an internal one?

00:35:50 ◼   ► And I thought I had an obvious answer to that,

00:35:52 ◼   ► but then I just started to do some more research

00:35:54 ◼   ► to get the numbers and it's really weird, right?

00:35:56 ◼   ► So the internal SSDs on Macs are, can be extremely fast.

00:36:01 ◼   ► We read before some numbers about internal SSDs,

00:36:03 ◼   ► the 512 internal SSD having 3000 megabytes per second

00:36:07 ◼   ► read-write, but then the M4 Pro at 5000 read-write.

00:36:10 ◼   ► You'll see them pushing up into 6000 megabytes read-write

00:36:12 ◼   ► on the bigger ones, right?

00:36:14 ◼   ► Internal can be real fast.

00:36:15 ◼   ► And so first you may be wondering, okay,

00:36:17 ◼   ► so if internal can be up to 6000 megabytes read-write

00:36:20 ◼   ► if I got a fast internal one,

00:36:21 ◼   ► can I compete with that an external?

00:36:24 ◼   ► So Thunderbolt three and four top out

00:36:27 ◼   ► at 40 gigabits per second.

00:36:28 ◼   ► That's 5000 megabytes per second.

00:36:30 ◼   ► So in theory, if you had a five or 6000 megabyte

00:36:34 ◼   ► per second internal, in theory, an external one,

00:36:37 ◼   ► if it was the only thing contending for your Thunderbolt bus

00:36:41 ◼   ► could match the speed of an internal one.

00:36:43 ◼   ► Like the bus wouldn't be the bottleneck.

00:36:45 ◼   ► But keep in mind that these M4 things,

00:36:47 ◼   ► these desktops have Thunderbolt five,

00:36:49 ◼   ► and that's 80 gigabits,

00:36:51 ◼   ► and that's 10,000 megabytes per second.

00:36:52 ◼   ► So the bus, the wire connecting your Mac main to the SSD

00:36:56 ◼   ► is not going to be the bottleneck most likely, right?

00:36:59 ◼   ► But now the question is,

00:37:01 ◼   ► what do I put at the under end of that cable

00:37:03 ◼   ► that can achieve those speeds?

00:37:05 ◼   ► And at first I thought, well,

00:37:08 ◼   ► you probably can't find an SSD that's gonna be as fast

00:37:10 ◼   ► as these little NAND things that are real close to the CPU

00:37:14 ◼   ► with those proprietary connectors,

00:37:15 ◼   ► because they probably just have a wider bus or whatever.

00:37:17 ◼   ► And I looked up lots of benchmarks

00:37:19 ◼   ► and you'd see people benchmarking their external SSDs

00:37:21 ◼   ► and they'd be happy to get like 2700 megabytes per second

00:37:24 ◼   ► read-write, 3000 megabytes per second read-write,

00:37:26 ◼   ► where the internal ones were getting up to six.

00:37:28 ◼   ► So I was like, wow, the extra ones are like half the speed.

00:37:30 ◼   ► That's a bummer.

00:37:31 ◼   ► But then I found some reports of external ones

00:37:33 ◼   ► that were faster that seemed to be close

00:37:34 ◼   ► to the internal ones.

00:37:36 ◼   ► So I don't know, like, again,

00:37:39 ◼   ► the bus is not the bottleneck here.

00:37:43 ◼   ► It may be the, so when you buy an external SSD,

00:37:48 ◼   ► you should buy a Thunderbolt one.

00:37:50 ◼   ► If you buy a product that is a Thunderbolt SSD

00:37:53 ◼   ► that connects with a Thunderbolt cable

00:37:54 ◼   ► and uses the Thunderbolt like protocol connection stuff,

00:37:57 ◼   ► you can buy that as a standalone product.

00:37:59 ◼   ► You can also buy enclosures that support Thunderbolt

00:38:02 ◼   ► that you plug in an NVMe standard NAND thing into.

00:38:07 ◼   ► But then you're like, which enclosure do I buy?

00:38:09 ◼   ► Which enclosure has the best performance?

00:38:10 ◼   ► It doesn't overheat, it doesn't throttle

00:38:12 ◼   ► after a certain period of time.

00:38:13 ◼   ► And then what SSD do I plug into that?

00:38:15 ◼   ► There's a lot of, it's kind of like buying an external,

00:38:17 ◼   ► back in the day when you'd buy the hard drive mechanism

00:38:19 ◼   ► and the external case that it goes in, it's tricky.

00:38:22 ◼   ► So if you care about the absolute fastest speed,

00:38:25 ◼   ► it is easier to just find benchmarks

00:38:29 ◼   ► for the built-in one on the Mac that you care about

00:38:31 ◼   ► and decide whether that is fast enough.

00:38:34 ◼   ► But you can get very fast speeds on external SSDs,

00:38:39 ◼   ► just maybe not the maximum

00:38:40 ◼   ► that you can get on the internal ones.

00:38:41 ◼   ► And I wish I could give you a more concrete answer

00:38:43 ◼   ► about what is the source of the limitations.

00:38:46 ◼   ► Again, the Thunderbolt 5, the limitation is not the bus.

00:38:48 ◼   ► It's something else.

00:38:49 ◼   ► Maybe it's contention for the bus

00:38:50 ◼   ► if you have a bunch of other stuff going on.

00:38:52 ◼   ► So I know that's not a satisfactory answer,

00:38:55 ◼   ► but just like the answer is,

00:38:57 ◼   ► find benchmarks for the external SSD thing

00:38:59 ◼   ► that you're thinking of buying,

00:39:00 ◼   ► whether it is a standalone product

00:39:02 ◼   ► or an enclosure and a thing,

00:39:05 ◼   ► and decide if that benchmark satisfies

00:39:07 ◼   ► what you think your needs are.

00:39:08 ◼   ► And after saying all this, you may be thinking,

00:39:09 ◼   ► oh, this is like, you're saying it's so great

00:39:11 ◼   ► you can do external storage.

00:39:12 ◼   ► You can't upgrade the RAM,

00:39:13 ◼   ► but you can do external storage,

00:39:14 ◼   ► but now you're saying external storage is useless.

00:39:16 ◼   ► It's totally not.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Like for normal stuff where your disk storage need

00:39:21 ◼   ► is I have huge files, like say you're a video editor,

00:39:24 ◼   ► you can fill like any disk or storage

00:39:27 ◼   ► with just huge video files.

00:39:28 ◼   ► Go out and shoot footage at 4K 120, you will fill anything.

00:39:31 ◼   ► And those files can live on an external SSD

00:39:35 ◼   ► that does 3,000 megabytes per second,

00:39:37 ◼   ► and you can edit 4K footage at that speed.

00:39:39 ◼   ► Now I'm not an expert video editor.

00:39:40 ◼   ► Maybe they'll tell you that, yeah,

00:39:41 ◼   ► but you'll run into problems when you do X, Y, and Z

00:39:44 ◼   ► with very large products or very large resolutions

00:39:46 ◼   ► or whatever, but for data files,

00:39:49 ◼   ► if you just need a place to store huge data files,

00:39:52 ◼   ► a big external SSD is great.

00:39:54 ◼   ► And if you need every last ounce of the speed,

00:39:56 ◼   ► maybe you can put your current project on the boot drive,

00:39:58 ◼   ► edit it, and then put it back over there.

00:40:01 ◼   ► But yeah, like for most storage,

00:40:03 ◼   ► what you care about is having the space to keep your stuff.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Not that you're constantly going to be reading

00:40:08 ◼   ► all of your stuff at 6,000 megabytes per second,

00:40:10 ◼   ► so now you can't do external storage at all.

00:40:12 ◼   ► And then of course, if you really want to spend the money,

00:40:15 ◼   ► I'm sure some vendor will sell you

00:40:17 ◼   ► some insane external storage device

00:40:19 ◼   ► that puts a bunch of SSDs in parallel

00:40:21 ◼   ► and does get speeds that rival or exceed

00:40:24 ◼   ► the lone single internal SSD,

00:40:27 ◼   ► because you can do the, whatever that thing is

00:40:29 ◼   ► the MKBHD bought for its Mac Pro.

00:40:31 ◼   ► It's like a PCIe card with like eight SSDs stuck on it.

00:40:35 ◼   ► Then you might run into bandwidth limits,

00:40:38 ◼   ► but the good news is it'll go up to 10,000 megabytes

00:40:40 ◼   ► per second in theory on Thunderbolt 5.

00:40:41 ◼   ► So external storage is still very useful,

00:40:45 ◼   ► but it is an additional complication,

00:40:47 ◼   ► which is why it's a shame that Apple charges so much

00:40:50 ◼   ► for its internal storage.

00:40:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's becoming my number one bugbear,

00:40:55 ◼   ► is now that the base RAM is at least reasonable,

00:41:00 ◼   ► these, the SSD prices are just from a different planet.

00:41:04 ◼   ► They really, really are.

00:41:05 ◼   ► I mean, well, and I guess I should also be thankful

00:41:07 ◼   ► that they haven't raised prices, you know,

00:41:09 ◼   ► and it seemed in a lot of ways, you know,

00:41:11 ◼   ► things that are, that should be more expensive

00:41:14 ◼   ► because inflation haven't gotten more expensive.

00:41:16 ◼   ► So there is a lot to be thankful for,

00:41:17 ◼   ► but whoa, man, are they ever making it up

00:41:20 ◼   ► with these SSD prices.

00:41:22 ◼   ► Gracious.

00:41:23 ◼   ► All right, let's talk about the M4.

00:41:24 ◼   ► Wes' campaign did the Lord's work

00:41:28 ◼   ► and compiled a whole bunch of data

00:41:30 ◼   ► on a single core Geekbench scores per gigahertz

00:41:35 ◼   ► for the M series chips and--

00:41:37 ◼   ► - Is gigahertz the singular form of that unit of measure?

00:41:41 ◼   ► - Sorry, gigahertz.

00:41:41 ◼   ► - It's just one hertz, one gigahertz.

00:41:43 ◼   ► - Just one gigahertz, that's it.

00:41:45 ◼   ► One ping only, please.

00:41:47 ◼   ► Anyways, so yes, there's a very fancy chart

00:41:50 ◼   ► in the show notes and as well,

00:41:52 ◼   ► or there's a table as well as a chart that details--

00:41:56 ◼   ► - I had to make the chart.

00:41:58 ◼   ► People, don't post a table on numbers.

00:41:59 ◼   ► No one can look at that and know what it is.

00:42:01 ◼   ► You gotta visualize it.

00:42:02 ◼   ► That's what charts are for.

00:42:03 ◼   ► It's for visualizing numbers.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Humans are much better at looking at a bunch of bars

00:42:06 ◼   ► of different heights than looking at numbers.

00:42:08 ◼   ► Even though it's like all the information is there

00:42:10 ◼   ► in the numbers, it's just harder to see.

00:42:11 ◼   ► Yeah, so I made the chart and you may be wondering

00:42:14 ◼   ► who cares about single core performance per gigahertz.

00:42:17 ◼   ► It's just another way to demonstrate

00:42:19 ◼   ► how good the M4 generation is.

00:42:22 ◼   ► So what we mean per gigahertz is like,

00:42:24 ◼   ► so these chips score a certain score

00:42:27 ◼   ► on the Geekbench single core thing.

00:42:28 ◼   ► We're just looking at this individual cores

00:42:30 ◼   ► at this point here.

00:42:32 ◼   ► And whatever that score is, you can also look

00:42:34 ◼   ► at the clock speed that the chip was running

00:42:36 ◼   ► to achieve that score and do some division

00:42:37 ◼   ► and find out for each one gigahertz,

00:42:40 ◼   ► how much of the score that it achieved

00:42:42 ◼   ► is attributable to that gigahertz, right?

00:42:44 ◼   ► And that matters because you might be wondering,

00:42:48 ◼   ► is the M whatever faster than its predecessor

00:42:51 ◼   ► because it is like a quote unquote better chip

00:42:54 ◼   ► or is it just clock tire?

00:42:56 ◼   ► Like did they make changes to the CPU core,

00:42:58 ◼   ► the individual CPU core that make it a better CPU core

00:43:02 ◼   ► or is it just that changes to the processor

00:43:04 ◼   ► now let them take essentially the same CPU core

00:43:06 ◼   ► and just clock it higher, right?

00:43:08 ◼   ► And to be clear, clocking higher is great.

00:43:10 ◼   ► Back in the good old days, we used to clock things higher

00:43:12 ◼   ► and they would just get faster and it was like free money.

00:43:15 ◼   ► Those days are long gone, right?

00:43:16 ◼   ► So just being able to clock them higher is great

00:43:19 ◼   ► and we will take every ounce of that that we can get.

00:43:21 ◼   ► We would love it if the CPU never changed

00:43:23 ◼   ► and they just double the clock speed every year.

00:43:25 ◼   ► We would love it.

00:43:26 ◼   ► There's no reason to like demand the CPUs be quote better

00:43:29 ◼   ► at what they do in each clock cycle.

00:43:31 ◼   ► But given that we can't keep doubling

00:43:34 ◼   ► the clock speed every year, given that clock speed gains

00:43:36 ◼   ► are hard fought and require process changes

00:43:39 ◼   ► and it just really is like pulling teeth

00:43:41 ◼   ► to get those little bits of clock speed,

00:43:43 ◼   ► it would be nice if the CPU could also do more

00:43:47 ◼   ► in each turn of the crank in each one of those clock cycles.

00:43:50 ◼   ► And if you look at the M1 through the M4,

00:43:53 ◼   ► M1 Pro and Max, M2, M3, M4,

00:43:57 ◼   ► and look at the performance per gigahertz,

00:44:00 ◼   ► it has been increasing.

00:44:01 ◼   ► The M1 had 738 giga bench score per gigahertz

00:44:04 ◼   ► and then it goes 746, 756, 755, 759,

00:44:08 ◼   ► 778, 751, 758, 763, it's going up, right?

00:44:13 ◼   ► We went from 738 to 763, this is performance per clock.

00:44:17 ◼   ► And by the way, obviously the clock speeds

00:44:19 ◼   ► have also increased across that whole thing,

00:44:20 ◼   ► which is why an M3 is faster than an M1, right?

00:44:24 ◼   ► But now look at the M4's bars.

00:44:26 ◼   ► They are 890, 889 and 896.

00:44:30 ◼   ► It is a discontinuity.

00:44:31 ◼   ► M1, M2, M3 barely eked out small gains

00:44:36 ◼   ► in sort of architectural improvements

00:44:38 ◼   ► and all the rest of their improvement

00:44:40 ◼   ► has been from clock speed, which again is great, we love it.

00:44:43 ◼   ► And the M3 is certainly faster than the M1,

00:44:46 ◼   ► just look at the benchmarks.

00:44:47 ◼   ► - Also there's been like cash increases

00:44:49 ◼   ► and stuff like that that also help a lot.

00:44:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, but like there was cash increases

00:44:52 ◼   ► on the M2 and on the M3 as well, right?

00:44:54 ◼   ► And this is just single core by the way,

00:44:56 ◼   ► because multi-core is very different

00:44:57 ◼   ► 'cause these have different number of cores.

00:44:58 ◼   ► But just looking at the individual core scores.

00:45:00 ◼   ► Now it could be that all of the additional performance

00:45:03 ◼   ► per gigahertz is attributable

00:45:04 ◼   ► to just massively big caches in the M4.

00:45:06 ◼   ► But whatever it's attributable to be,

00:45:08 ◼   ► it is a discontinuity.

00:45:10 ◼   ► The M1 and M2, M3 were getting a little bit better per clock

00:45:14 ◼   ► and the M4 gets a lot better per clock.

00:45:18 ◼   ► Now we'll see, does this continue

00:45:19 ◼   ► or do we get M5, M6, M7 that are also gradual?

00:45:23 ◼   ► But it's just another way of demonstrating

00:45:24 ◼   ► how much better the M4 is than the others.

00:45:27 ◼   ► And by the way, the M4 is also clock higher.

00:45:29 ◼   ► That is not represented in this graph

00:45:31 ◼   ► 'cause this graph is intentionally ignoring clock increases.

00:45:34 ◼   ► But yeah, the entire M4 generation

00:45:37 ◼   ► is a pretty substantial leap over all of its predecessors

00:45:40 ◼   ► in many different ways.

00:45:42 ◼   ► We don't have a power chart in here,

00:45:43 ◼   ► but lots of people who are testing these

00:45:44 ◼   ► are amazed at how low power they are

00:45:46 ◼   ► when they're doing nothing compared to their predecessors,

00:45:48 ◼   ► which is also great.

00:45:50 ◼   ► So buy those shirts.

00:45:52 ◼   ► Get an M4 shirt even if you never get an M4 Mac.

00:45:55 ◼   ► This is a good generation.

00:45:57 ◼   ► - So yeah, so Wes also notes that

00:45:59 ◼   ► if you look at the iPhone Pro scores

00:46:01 ◼   ► over the last few years,

00:46:02 ◼   ► there's a similar major jump

00:46:03 ◼   ► at the A18 Pro's performance per gigahertz.

00:46:06 ◼   ► Whatever they've done to improve the performance

00:46:07 ◼   ► of this latest generation of performance cores

00:46:09 ◼   ► is really amazing.

00:46:11 ◼   ► And then Ken Case points out,

00:46:13 ◼   ► "A fun discovery this week is that an M4 Mac Mini

00:46:15 ◼   ► with four performance and six efficiency cores

00:46:17 ◼   ► does a clean build of OmniFocus

00:46:19 ◼   ► one and a half times faster than an M1 Ultra Mac Studio

00:46:22 ◼   ► with 16 performance cores and four efficiency cores."

00:46:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, so that is a comparison of two chips

00:46:29 ◼   ► that are very unlike each other,

00:46:31 ◼   ► the lowest end M4 and the highest end M1

00:46:34 ◼   ► doing a real world task.

00:46:35 ◼   ► Ken Case runs OmniGroup by the way,

00:46:38 ◼   ► makers of lots of fine applications,

00:46:40 ◼   ► and doing a thing that you need to do as part of your job.

00:46:42 ◼   ► How long does it take to build this application

00:46:44 ◼   ► that we develop?

00:46:45 ◼   ► And after four generations of the M series chips,

00:46:49 ◼   ► the slowest M4 is now substantially faster

00:46:53 ◼   ► than the fastest M1 that was ever sold.

00:46:55 ◼   ► In a real world, multi-core task.

00:46:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is, I mean, the progress we've made

00:47:01 ◼   ► in processor performance just since the Apple Silicon era,

00:47:05 ◼   ► even if you only consider the Apple Silicon era

00:47:07 ◼   ► within itself, not even considering how it compared

00:47:10 ◼   ► to Intel, which--

00:47:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, the M1 was not a bad chip, it was amazing.

00:47:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, the M1 destroyed everything before it.

00:47:15 ◼   ► And even just when you look at what we have done

00:47:18 ◼   ► since the M1, which admittedly that was what,

00:47:20 ◼   ► four years ago, a little over four years ago,

00:47:23 ◼   ► something like that.

00:47:24 ◼   ► That was not, four years is a long time in computers,

00:47:28 ◼   ► but when you compare the gains we've had

00:47:31 ◼   ► in the Apple Silicon era versus what we were getting

00:47:34 ◼   ► in the Intel era for the previous 15 years,

00:47:38 ◼   ► with Intel chips, you were lucky if you were getting

00:47:41 ◼   ► maybe five to 7% per year faster.

00:47:44 ◼   ► Like, you were not getting this kind of gain.

00:47:47 ◼   ► So this has just been an incredible run so far.

00:47:50 ◼   ► And I'm sure it's gonna ebb and flow

00:47:53 ◼   ► and how quickly things progress over time,

00:47:55 ◼   ► but we're just in a really great era right now.

00:47:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, and if you look at Intel, by the way,

00:48:00 ◼   ► Intel now is getting a TSMC to manufacture

00:48:03 ◼   ► all our parts of its chips because its process

00:48:05 ◼   ► isn't as good, so the Intel chips are like,

00:48:07 ◼   ► there was all this noise about them being competitive

00:48:09 ◼   ► when we talked about the Qualcomm chips being competitive.

00:48:13 ◼   ► All those Intel chips and Qualcomm chips

00:48:15 ◼   ► when we were talking about them,

00:48:16 ◼   ► they were all comparing themselves to the M3.

00:48:18 ◼   ► And we always knew the M4 was coming,

00:48:20 ◼   ► and it's like, okay, well it's fair to compare it

00:48:21 ◼   ► to what's on the market because they're comparing

00:48:23 ◼   ► their chips to what you can buy now

00:48:24 ◼   ► and you can only buy M3 Macs now.

00:48:25 ◼   ► Well, that time is over.

00:48:26 ◼   ► You can buy M4 ones now and they're amazing.

00:48:28 ◼   ► So, too bad for Intel's stuff and for Qualcomm's stuff.

00:48:33 ◼   ► They had their brief moment in the sun

00:48:35 ◼   ► when they were within shooting distance,

00:48:37 ◼   ► within whatever the expression is,

00:48:39 ◼   ► within punching distance of Apple's then best line of chips,

00:48:43 ◼   ► but the M4s are here now and they have jumped out ahead

00:48:47 ◼   ► fairly comfortably in all measures

00:48:48 ◼   ► that anyone cares about.

00:48:49 ◼   ► And obviously it's not just the SoCs.

00:48:51 ◼   ► Everything has to do with the M4s,

00:48:53 ◼   ► all the architectural changes,

00:48:55 ◼   ► although it is, you know, the memory controllers

00:48:56 ◼   ► and the storage stuff is related to the SoC as well.

00:48:58 ◼   ► But it's everything about these computers.

00:49:01 ◼   ► That's how far we've come.

00:49:03 ◼   ► You wait for four generations of SoC

00:49:04 ◼   ► and the slowest one is faster

00:49:06 ◼   ► than the fastest original series chip.

00:49:09 ◼   ► So, we're making good progress.

00:49:11 ◼   ► It's great to see.

00:49:13 ◼   ► It's hard fought, right?

00:49:14 ◼   ► It requires billions of dollars in new process

00:49:16 ◼   ► and lots of difficult chip design and lots of,

00:49:19 ◼   ► you know, it's not as easy as it was

00:49:20 ◼   ► back in the old days when we were just cranking up

00:49:21 ◼   ► the clock speed and you just get faster.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Those days are long gone,

00:49:25 ◼   ► but that's why it's so great to see that it's not like,

00:49:27 ◼   ► oh, the M1 came along and it was amazing

00:49:29 ◼   ► and then it just kind of plateaued after there.

00:49:31 ◼   ► Nope, they're still making good gains.

00:49:34 ◼   ► Whatever brain drain happened

00:49:36 ◼   ► from when all of the Apple Silicon people left

00:49:38 ◼   ► to form Nuvia and that got bought by Qualcomm,

00:49:41 ◼   ► apparently it has not been enough

00:49:42 ◼   ► to completely cripple Apple's ability to make good chips

00:49:47 ◼   ► 'cause the M4 chips are great.

00:49:49 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:49:50 ◼   ► We are sponsored this episode by DeleteMe.

00:49:54 ◼   ► Look, data brokers profit off of your data.

00:49:56 ◼   ► Your data is a commodity.

00:49:58 ◼   ► Anyone on the web can buy your private details.

00:50:00 ◼   ► This can lead to lots of problems for you,

00:50:02 ◼   ► things like identity theft, phishing attempts, harassment,

00:50:04 ◼   ► even simpler stuff like just unwanted spam phone calls.

00:50:07 ◼   ► But now, you can help protect your privacy with DeleteMe.

00:50:10 ◼   ► This is a great service that I have personally used myself.

00:50:14 ◼   ► Here's what you do.

00:50:15 ◼   ► You sign up and provide the DeleteMe

00:50:17 ◼   ► with exactly what information you want deleted

00:50:19 ◼   ► about you and your family members if you want

00:50:22 ◼   ► and then they take it from there.

00:50:23 ◼   ► They send you a regular personalized privacy report

00:50:26 ◼   ► showing what info they were able to find

00:50:27 ◼   ► in various data broker sites and databases and stuff,

00:50:30 ◼   ► where they found it,

00:50:31 ◼   ► and then what they were able to remove.

00:50:33 ◼   ► And DeleteMe isn't just a one-time service.

00:50:36 ◼   ► They're always continually working for you

00:50:38 ◼   ► to monitor and remove your personal info

00:50:41 ◼   ► that you don't want in these various databases

00:50:43 ◼   ► and stuff all over the internet

00:50:44 ◼   ► because the thing is it's so easy

00:50:46 ◼   ► to just do a quick Google search or whatever

00:50:48 ◼   ► and find everyone's personal information

00:50:51 ◼   ► and it's kinda creepy.

00:50:52 ◼   ► Obviously, nothing is a perfect solution to everything,

00:50:55 ◼   ► but you can make it a lot harder

00:50:57 ◼   ► getting your info out of all these different databases

00:50:59 ◼   ► and that's what DeleteMe really specializes in.

00:51:01 ◼   ► So it's a great service.

00:51:03 ◼   ► They do all the hard work of helping wipe

00:51:05 ◼   ► your and your family's personal info

00:51:07 ◼   ► from all these data broker websites out there.

00:51:09 ◼   ► So take control of your data

00:51:11 ◼   ► and keep your private life private

00:51:13 ◼   ► by signing up for DeleteMe,

00:51:14 ◼   ► now at a special discount for our listeners.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Today, get 20% off your DeleteMe plan

00:51:19 ◼   ► when you go to joindeleteme.com/atp

00:51:23 ◼   ► and use promo code ATP at checkout.

00:51:25 ◼   ► The only way to get 20% off

00:51:27 ◼   ► is to go to joindeleteme.com/atp

00:51:30 ◼   ► and enter code ATP at checkout.

00:51:32 ◼   ► That's joindeleteme.com/atp, code ATP.

00:51:37 ◼   ► Thank you so much to DeleteMe for sponsoring our show.

00:51:42 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:51:44 ◼   ► So we've had fits and spurts of news

00:51:47 ◼   ► over the last, I don't know, month, maybe two months,

00:51:49 ◼   ► about some sort of home device

00:51:52 ◼   ► that Apple was flirting with.

00:51:54 ◼   ► And we had the biggest, I guess, like summary

00:51:58 ◼   ► and a little bit of new news from,

00:52:01 ◼   ► as you would expect, Mark Gurman.

00:52:03 ◼   ► This was yesterday as we record this.

00:52:05 ◼   ► There's a lot to read here and I apologize for that,

00:52:07 ◼   ► but I think all of this is interesting

00:52:08 ◼   ► and is a pretty good summary

00:52:10 ◼   ► and also, like I said, some new information.

00:52:12 ◼   ► - It's not just a summary.

00:52:12 ◼   ► This is, here's the way I characterize it.

00:52:14 ◼   ► We've talked about this HomePod with a screen

00:52:17 ◼   ► for I think more than multiple months.

00:52:18 ◼   ► I think it's been a long time we've been talking about this.

00:52:20 ◼   ► A lot of time we talked about it,

00:52:22 ◼   ► specifically about the robot arm

00:52:24 ◼   ► that's gonna make the screen point towards you or whatever.

00:52:26 ◼   ► And that was all like, Apple's planning a product

00:52:28 ◼   ► that's like a HomePod with a screen

00:52:29 ◼   ► that might have a robot arm.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Let me tell you about it.

00:52:32 ◼   ► But this dump from Gurman here is like,

00:52:34 ◼   ► all right, that time is over

00:52:36 ◼   ► where we talk about a vague product that Apple has.

00:52:38 ◼   ► Let me tell you about the specific product

00:52:40 ◼   ► that Apple is going to release.

00:52:41 ◼   ► And this has tons of details

00:52:43 ◼   ► that have not been in there before.

00:52:44 ◼   ► I mean, he might as well have included

00:52:46 ◼   ► like a name and a product shot.

00:52:48 ◼   ► Like, this is a lot.

00:52:49 ◼   ► That's why we've included all these details.

00:52:50 ◼   ► 'Cause this is, you know, when you read the Gurman stories

00:52:52 ◼   ► that it's like, Apple might be looking at this

00:52:53 ◼   ► and looking at that.

00:52:54 ◼   ► And then you read the Gurman stories,

00:52:55 ◼   ► it's like, here's what's coming out next week.

00:52:58 ◼   ► And he tells you everything about the machines.

00:52:59 ◼   ► This reads like that.

00:53:01 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

00:53:02 ◼   ► So let me start reading.

00:53:03 ◼   ► The device has a roughly six inch screen

00:53:06 ◼   ► and looks like a square iPad.

00:53:08 ◼   ► There's also a camera at the top front,

00:53:10 ◼   ► a rechargeable built-in battery and internal speakers.

00:53:12 ◼   ► Apple plans to offer it in silver and black options.

00:53:15 ◼   ► The product has a touch interface

00:53:17 ◼   ► that looks like a blend of the Apple Watch operating system

00:53:19 ◼   ► and the iPhone's recently launched standby mode.

00:53:22 ◼   ► But the company expects most people to use their voice

00:53:25 ◼   ► to interact with the device.

00:53:26 ◼   ► Hardware was designed around App Intents,

00:53:28 ◼   ► a system that lets AI precisely control applications

00:53:31 ◼   ► and tasks, which is set to debut in the coming months.

00:53:35 ◼   ► The product will be marketed

00:53:36 ◼   ► as a way to control home appliances,

00:53:38 ◼   ► chat with Siri and hold intercom sessions

00:53:41 ◼   ► via Apple's FaceTime software.

00:53:43 ◼   ► It will also be loaded with Apple apps,

00:53:45 ◼   ► including ones for web browsing,

00:53:46 ◼   ► listening to news updates and playing music.

00:53:48 ◼   ► Users will be able to access their notes

00:53:50 ◼   ► and calendar information,

00:53:51 ◼   ► and the device can turn into a slideshow

00:53:54 ◼   ► to display their photos.

00:53:56 ◼   ► Apple's already planning a more expensive follow-up version,

00:53:58 ◼   ► because of course they are,

00:53:59 ◼   ► with a robotic limb that can move the screen around.

00:54:02 ◼   ► The higher end product could be priced

00:54:04 ◼   ► at as much as $1,000,

00:54:06 ◼   ► which if you follow Jason Snell's math,

00:54:08 ◼   ► which is double whatever you think it will be,

00:54:11 ◼   ► then it's $2,000.

00:54:12 ◼   ► The display-only device will be far less than that

00:54:15 ◼   ► and approaching the cost of competitors' products.

00:54:18 ◼   ► And for reference, the Echo Show 8 is priced at 150 bucks,

00:54:21 ◼   ► while the Echo Hub is 180.

00:54:23 ◼   ► The Nest Hub Max costs $230.

00:54:27 ◼   ► Apple's designed different attachments for the device,

00:54:30 ◼   ► including ones that affix the screens onto walls.

00:54:32 ◼   ► There will be bases with additional speakers

00:54:33 ◼   ► that can be placed in the kitchen.

00:54:35 ◼   ► We've got the Playdate dock all over again.

00:54:37 ◼   ► On a nightstand or on a desk.

00:54:39 ◼   ► The screen device, which runs a new operating system

00:54:42 ◼   ► code named Pebble, too soon,

00:54:44 ◼   ► will include sensors to determine how close a person is.

00:54:47 ◼   ► It will then automatically adjust its features

00:54:49 ◼   ► depending on the distance.

00:54:50 ◼   ► For example, if users are several feet away,

00:54:52 ◼   ► it might show the temperature.

00:54:53 ◼   ► As they approach, the interface can switch to a panel

00:54:55 ◼   ► for adjusting the home thermostat.

00:54:57 ◼   ► That's very clever.

00:54:58 ◼   ► During development, Apple discussed launching an app store

00:55:01 ◼   ► as part of the device,

00:55:02 ◼   ► but it recently decided to exclude this feature,

00:55:04 ◼   ► at least in the initial version.

00:55:06 ◼   ► That sounds familiar.

00:55:07 ◼   ► The product will be a standalone device,

00:55:09 ◼   ► meaning it can operate almost entirely on its own,

00:55:11 ◼   ► but it will require an iPhone for some tasks,

00:55:13 ◼   ► including parts of the initial setup.

00:55:15 ◼   ► Apple hopes it can sell multiple units of the device

00:55:17 ◼   ► to consumers who will place them around the house

00:55:19 ◼   ► and use them several times a day.

00:55:21 ◼   ► - So that is a product.

00:55:22 ◼   ► That is a product that is less than,

00:55:24 ◼   ► I guess let's just say less than $1,000,

00:55:26 ◼   ► according to this rumor,

00:55:27 ◼   ► 'cause I don't know if it's gonna be $200 or $150,

00:55:29 ◼   ► or less than $1,000.

00:55:31 ◼   ► No apps, no app store.

00:55:33 ◼   ► It is an appliance in the sense of the HomePod, I guess.

00:55:38 ◼   ► You don't buy apps for your HomePods, right?

00:55:40 ◼   ► They just put them in your house.

00:55:41 ◼   ► They do a thing.

00:55:42 ◼   ► They hopefully are inexpensive.

00:55:44 ◼   ► And the thing that they're going to do is,

00:55:46 ◼   ► it's going to be a screen that lets you do home stuff

00:55:49 ◼   ► and maybe look at some photos and maybe do FaceTime stuff.

00:55:52 ◼   ► And that is, I think, a pretty reasonable product.

00:55:56 ◼   ► Lots of the rumors were so concentrating on that robot arm

00:55:58 ◼   ► and thinking it's gonna be like in your kitchen table

00:56:00 ◼   ► in front of you and turning the screen around,

00:56:01 ◼   ► but it's like, this is just, people say,

00:56:04 ◼   ► "Oh, it's like an iPad, I hang my wall, so what?"

00:56:05 ◼   ► Well, first of all, iPads are super expensive.

00:56:08 ◼   ► And second, iPads don't have software

00:56:11 ◼   ► that lets them do the things that this thing is gonna do.

00:56:13 ◼   ► This is really like, think of it as like Apple's Ecobee,

00:56:18 ◼   ► or something similar to that,

00:56:19 ◼   ► or I guess the Echo Show is kind of similar as well.

00:56:21 ◼   ► But like, I like the idea

00:56:23 ◼   ► that this doesn't have apps initially,

00:56:25 ◼   ► because it forces Apple to say,

00:56:27 ◼   ► "Make this product useful

00:56:29 ◼   ► with just the stuff that it comes with.

00:56:31 ◼   ► You should be able to fiddle with all your home stuff

00:56:35 ◼   ► and see what the temperature is and adjust your thermostat.

00:56:37 ◼   ► And it's neat that you can also talk to it

00:56:39 ◼   ► and have it do voice assistant stuff,

00:56:40 ◼   ► and it can show pictures of your family."

00:56:42 ◼   ► And I guess you could do FaceTime

00:56:44 ◼   ► if you had it on the kitchen counter or something,

00:56:46 ◼   ► but really, I just see this as being sold as like,

00:56:49 ◼   ► in a fancy house, to control house stuff,

00:56:53 ◼   ► you'd have a couple of these hanging around,

00:56:55 ◼   ► and it would be nicer than an Ecobee,

00:56:58 ◼   ► nicer than a Nest, integrated into Apple's ecosystem.

00:57:02 ◼   ► And it opens the door for potentially Apple

00:57:05 ◼   ► to sell devices that connect to this

00:57:08 ◼   ► and do interesting stuff.

00:57:09 ◼   ► So far, Apple hasn't been interested in that.

00:57:11 ◼   ► They don't sell the thermostats,

00:57:12 ◼   ► they don't sell the smart lights,

00:57:13 ◼   ► they don't sell, so they just, you know,

00:57:15 ◼   ► they do HomeKit, and they support Matter

00:57:17 ◼   ► and Thread radios and all that stuff,

00:57:18 ◼   ► but they don't sell devices that connect to this.

00:57:21 ◼   ► But if this is not an App Store play,

00:57:23 ◼   ► but is instead just a electronic product

00:57:26 ◼   ► you buy from Apple to solve a problem

00:57:27 ◼   ► for a single price one time,

00:57:30 ◼   ► that, at this point, is actually kind of novel

00:57:33 ◼   ► and refreshing, which is maybe sad,

00:57:35 ◼   ► but that's how I feel about this.

00:57:37 ◼   ► I'm like, yeah, a less than $1,000 thing

00:57:39 ◼   ► that's not a full-blown iPad,

00:57:41 ◼   ► that I don't want to be a full-blown iPad,

00:57:43 ◼   ► that just does home stuff, that does it in a nice way

00:57:45 ◼   ► with a pleasant interface with no ads,

00:57:47 ◼   ► that never asks me if I wanna reorder something

00:57:48 ◼   ► I just ordered from Amazon, I give that a thumbs up.

00:57:52 ◼   ► - I have two major concerns about this kind of ads presented.

00:57:55 ◼   ► Number one, this is exactly the kind of product

00:58:00 ◼   ► that Apple historically has kind of put out there

00:58:05 ◼   ► and then neglected, and then it dies.

00:58:07 ◼   ► I think the entire HomePod line,

00:58:10 ◼   ► you can look at and say, hmm,

00:58:12 ◼   ► that's the predecessor to this, how's that going?

00:58:16 ◼   ► - If it kept working, though, like,

00:58:18 ◼   ► I kind of hope-- - Well, that's a big if.

00:58:21 ◼   ► - I kind of hope that my Ecobee thermostat

00:58:22 ◼   ► doesn't keep getting updated and doing weird stuff,

00:58:25 ◼   ► I just want it to do exactly what it does now,

00:58:27 ◼   ► forever, and not break.

00:58:28 ◼   ► - Well, here's the problem, though.

00:58:29 ◼   ► Number two thing I'm worried about is

00:58:32 ◼   ► this sounds like it depends a lot on HomeKit

00:58:35 ◼   ► and HomeKit accessories and the market

00:58:38 ◼   ► of HomeKit accessories and how good they are

00:58:40 ◼   ► and how healthy that ecosystem is.

00:58:41 ◼   ► And that's not a great thing I would depend on.

00:58:46 ◼   ► I have a bunch of HomeKit stuff, it's a mixed bag.

00:58:50 ◼   ► And over time, it does not seem like

00:58:53 ◼   ► it's going in a great direction.

00:58:55 ◼   ► It seems like, again, it's kind of one of those things

00:58:57 ◼   ► that's been put out there and then it just kind of

00:59:00 ◼   ► sits around and we see a story play out with HomeKit

00:59:03 ◼   ► that we see a lot with Apple, which is

00:59:06 ◼   ► they declare a certain standard,

00:59:09 ◼   ► that standard ends up being more expensive

00:59:12 ◼   ► or harder to implement than people making

00:59:14 ◼   ► their own standards or other computing standards,

00:59:16 ◼   ► and as a result, there's not much of an ecosystem there.

00:59:18 ◼   ► It's a handful of partner brands and not much else.

00:59:21 ◼   ► That's what we see with HomeKit.

00:59:22 ◼   ► And HomeKit adds to it the other problem

00:59:25 ◼   ► of Apple not caring that much about it.

00:59:27 ◼   ► So the Apple Home app is kind of a mess.

00:59:29 ◼   ► HomeKit itself is kind of spotty here and there.

00:59:33 ◼   ► It's not nearly as reliable as dedicated systems

00:59:37 ◼   ► like the Phillips Hue systems or like Lutron, Casada,

00:59:40 ◼   ► like where they kind of have their own protocols.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Those are way more reliable.

00:59:44 ◼   ► You don't see a lot of HomeKit products being released.

00:59:47 ◼   ► You don't see that ecosystem really thriving.

00:59:49 ◼   ► So whatever this product is that Kerwin's talking about,

00:59:51 ◼   ► this square wall pad thing, whatever this is,

00:59:56 ◼   ► controlling home devices should probably not be

00:59:59 ◼   ► a major reason why people would buy this

01:00:01 ◼   ► because I think that's gonna be disappointing

01:00:03 ◼   ► and probably neglected.

01:00:05 ◼   ► Now, the other parts of this,

01:00:07 ◼   ► from a technical point of view,

01:00:09 ◼   ► as soon as Apple released standby mode on the iPhone,

01:00:12 ◼   ► we were all saying, why isn't this just like an iPad

01:00:16 ◼   ► that you can stick somewhere and be like an appliance?

01:00:19 ◼   ► It seems like they made this system on the iPhone,

01:00:22 ◼   ► which is like this whole environment

01:00:24 ◼   ► where you're kind of running these blown up

01:00:26 ◼   ► but small information density widgets

01:00:30 ◼   ► in kind of this like appliances kind of mode.

01:00:33 ◼   ► That is indeed screaming out for like more products

01:00:39 ◼   ► to expand what that does.

01:00:41 ◼   ► But even that, Apple put it out there

01:00:45 ◼   ► and kind of didn't do anything with it after that.

01:00:48 ◼   ► They put it out and kind of walked away whistling

01:00:50 ◼   ► like a cartoon character.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Are they going to invest more in that?

01:00:54 ◼   ► Is it gonna work better?

01:00:55 ◼   ► Is it gonna have better capabilities?

01:00:56 ◼   ► Is it gonna be a little bit easier to develop for

01:00:58 ◼   ► 'cause standby is not super easy to develop for?

01:01:00 ◼   ► And then we're moving into the AppIntense system

01:01:04 ◼   ► that this is allegedly based on,

01:01:05 ◼   ► which again, that's part of Apple intelligence.

01:01:08 ◼   ► That's part of the plan for like the next year

01:01:11 ◼   ► part of Apple intelligence where it will hopefully

01:01:13 ◼   ► be able to index and then start operating on AppIntense

01:01:17 ◼   ► without our app exposed.

01:01:18 ◼   ► But that first of all is an API that doesn't exist yet

01:01:23 ◼   ► for an area of iOS which is intense

01:01:29 ◼   ► that historically has been very limited,

01:01:32 ◼   ► a little bit buggy, very hard to develop for.

01:01:35 ◼   ► And now you're launching it allegedly or developing

01:01:38 ◼   ► or kind of relying on that ecosystem

01:01:41 ◼   ► which is difficult, buggy and not well supported

01:01:44 ◼   ► and largely non-existent so far.

01:01:46 ◼   ► Integrating that with Apple intelligence which is not,

01:01:51 ◼   ► it's barely existing so far, that's in its very early days,

01:01:54 ◼   ► trying to build upon Siri which so far

01:01:59 ◼   ► we're still waiting for it to get good.

01:02:02 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:02:02 ◼   ► - It hasn't yet.

01:02:04 ◼   ► And a quick aside here, I think it was a huge mistake

01:02:09 ◼   ► to launch the Siri UI redesign with the colorful border

01:02:14 ◼   ► around the screen before it is the Apple intelligence

01:02:17 ◼   ► version of Siri.

01:02:19 ◼   ► That they should have paired those things together

01:02:20 ◼   ► 'cause what people see now is oh Siri's different,

01:02:24 ◼   ► this is the update, great.

01:02:25 ◼   ► And then you ask to do something and it still sucks

01:02:27 ◼   ► and then you think Apple intelligence sucks.

01:02:29 ◼   ► I think that was a terrible marketing move to split that off.

01:02:33 ◼   ► The colorful border should indicate this is the new

01:02:36 ◼   ► Apple intelligence Siri and if that Siri isn't ready yet,

01:02:39 ◼   ► we shouldn't be seeing that colorful border yet.

01:02:40 ◼   ► Anyway, that's an aside.

01:02:41 ◼   ► So going back to the square pad wall thing,

01:02:44 ◼   ► it seems like this is a product.

01:02:47 ◼   ► In this Mark Gurman conception,

01:02:49 ◼   ► which I'm sure is incomplete and missing a lot of the point

01:02:52 ◼   ► and way less cool and missing on some of the features, fine.

01:02:55 ◼   ► But in this version of it, what I'm hearing is

01:02:58 ◼   ► here's a product that we're kind of not sure

01:03:02 ◼   ► where this fits in a lot of people's homes,

01:03:04 ◼   ► lives and budgets being built upon a bunch of

01:03:08 ◼   ► kind of unreliable or often neglected parts of Apple's

01:03:12 ◼   ► tech stack and business.

01:03:14 ◼   ► I don't know, I'm a little wary of this product

01:03:18 ◼   ► the way it's described so far.

01:03:20 ◼   ► - I kind of like it because the competitors are so terrible.

01:03:22 ◼   ► Like for example when I was visiting my brother

01:03:25 ◼   ► out in California, they wanted something in their house

01:03:28 ◼   ► that could just show like their calendar, right?

01:03:31 ◼   ► You know, their Google calendar, whatever they were using.

01:03:33 ◼   ► But it was like somewhere convenient in the house

01:03:35 ◼   ► like in the kitchen or on the wall or whatever

01:03:37 ◼   ► just so they can keep track of stuff.

01:03:39 ◼   ► They don't have to like look on their phone

01:03:40 ◼   ► or scroll or whatever because calendars are big

01:03:42 ◼   ► and you need to see lots of stuff.

01:03:44 ◼   ► That type of appliance, a relatively inexpensive

01:03:48 ◼   ► compared to like an iPad thing that can just

01:03:51 ◼   ► show your calendar and like the weather and the time.

01:03:54 ◼   ► People buy those that do literally nothing else.

01:03:56 ◼   ► They don't have any apps, they don't have any features,

01:03:58 ◼   ► they don't control any home stuff.

01:03:59 ◼   ► All they do is show their calendar.

01:04:00 ◼   ► It's not even interactive, you can't even interact with it.

01:04:02 ◼   ► It just shows your calendar and the events and the time

01:04:04 ◼   ► and maybe the weather.

01:04:06 ◼   ► And it's like, you know, $100 and it's some weird

01:04:09 ◼   ► Android tablet and they buy it and they're happy with it.

01:04:11 ◼   ► Like the fact that it doesn't have apps

01:04:14 ◼   ► I think is key for this product.

01:04:15 ◼   ► I hope it never has apps because I just want it to be

01:04:18 ◼   ► a inexpensive in Apple land which probably means like $299

01:04:21 ◼   ► or whatever but still like a thing that's not an iPad,

01:04:25 ◼   ► a thing that is inexpensive compared to an iPad

01:04:28 ◼   ► that just does a limited number of things and looks nice

01:04:32 ◼   ► and doesn't have ads on it and doesn't constantly want you

01:04:34 ◼   ► to buy things and isn't doing weird, creepy stuff

01:04:37 ◼   ► or whatever, it has good security, it's not selling

01:04:40 ◼   ► any of your information and it just does something boring.

01:04:43 ◼   ► I think there's a market for something like that

01:04:46 ◼   ► and I've always wished Apple would make one of these things

01:04:48 ◼   ► 'cause a lot of the third party ones you have questions

01:04:50 ◼   ► of like, is this just constantly gonna be selling me things,

01:04:52 ◼   ► is it listening to hear what TV shows I'm watching

01:04:57 ◼   ► and it's selling that information to some data broker

01:04:59 ◼   ► or whatever, Apple is a company that I trust

01:05:02 ◼   ► to do a simple thing that just shows the time and the weather

01:05:05 ◼   ► shows the family calendar, shows a slideshow of photos

01:05:09 ◼   ► of my kids when it's idle and if as a bonus,

01:05:12 ◼   ► it can also control my HomeKit enabled thermostat

01:05:15 ◼   ► or something that's great and setting aside

01:05:18 ◼   ► how good HomeKit's going, I don't have a lot of experience

01:05:20 ◼   ► with home stuff but it seems like there is no,

01:05:23 ◼   ► with the exception of Lutron which is like flawless

01:05:26 ◼   ► and works perfectly but is not a sort of smart app platform

01:05:31 ◼   ► or anything, I don't think they have anything equivalent

01:05:33 ◼   ► to the big thing with the screen.

01:05:35 ◼   ► With the assumption of sort of infrastructure stuff

01:05:36 ◼   ► that's amazing, everything that tries to do something nicer

01:05:40 ◼   ► ends up being kind of like flaky or annoying

01:05:43 ◼   ► or just sort of not up to Apple standards

01:05:45 ◼   ► so I think Apple should have a product like this

01:05:47 ◼   ► and yes, they should also make the HomeKit stuff better

01:05:49 ◼   ► and they need to deal with that and they need to actually

01:05:51 ◼   ► use all the thread radios that are shipping

01:05:53 ◼   ► every other devices, by the way, the Mac mini also

01:05:55 ◼   ► has a thread radio, we don't even mention it anymore

01:05:57 ◼   ► but like everything Apple sells has thread radios.

01:05:59 ◼   ► What is it good for, what is it being used for?

01:06:02 ◼   ► Who knows, someday it will be super important

01:06:03 ◼   ► but anyway, Apple does need to shore that up

01:06:06 ◼   ► but setting all that aside, just a little cheap screen

01:06:10 ◼   ► that's not a hand-me-down iPad that comes with mounting

01:06:13 ◼   ► hardware that you can stick somewhere in your house

01:06:15 ◼   ► that looks nice and does a simple thing,

01:06:17 ◼   ► I think that's a good product.

01:06:18 ◼   ► I question why Apple, I'm kind of, not question,

01:06:21 ◼   ► I'm kind of amazed that Apple is building it

01:06:23 ◼   ► because I currently don't see the services revenue angle

01:06:26 ◼   ► and it seems like everything Apple makes

01:06:27 ◼   ► needs to have that angle but this has no apps,

01:06:30 ◼   ► no, you know, cut of percentage of developer stuff for it,

01:06:34 ◼   ► presumably no subscription other than maybe iCloud

01:06:37 ◼   ► they can integrate into that, it's just a thing you buy

01:06:39 ◼   ► that's nice that does something in your home

01:06:42 ◼   ► and I long for products like that that are not junked up

01:06:45 ◼   ► and I hope that's what this is.

01:06:46 ◼   ► If it's not what this is and they get all tied up

01:06:48 ◼   ► with a robot arm thing and try to pitch this

01:06:51 ◼   ► as the ultimate HomeKit console for a fantasy house

01:06:54 ◼   ► that doesn't actually exist outside of Apple's

01:06:55 ◼   ► little model home where everything is controlled

01:06:58 ◼   ► by HomeKit and it all works, yeah,

01:07:00 ◼   ► 'cause you know, in real life people have ring doorbells,

01:07:02 ◼   ► people have Google security camels,

01:07:03 ◼   ► people have all sorts of different stuff

01:07:05 ◼   ► and this thing is not going to help you like integrate

01:07:08 ◼   ► that heterogeneous smart home and clarify it all

01:07:11 ◼   ► and connect with home, like that's not this product, right?

01:07:14 ◼   ► But in that case, I'm just like, can you at least

01:07:16 ◼   ► just show me a calendar and a clock in the weather

01:07:17 ◼   ► and maybe I'll buy it.

01:07:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:20 ◼   ► Like the bar is low is what I'm saying, like,

01:07:22 ◼   ► the bar, for stuff like this, the bar is really low,

01:07:25 ◼   ► it's hard to find stuff like this that is actually nice.

01:07:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know, I've never had any of the screen-based

01:07:33 ◼   ► assistants in my house, we did have the original

01:07:37 ◼   ► very tall tubular Echo, we have a couple of Echo dots

01:07:42 ◼   ► that we almost never used to be honest,

01:07:45 ◼   ► in fact, there's one in our primary bedroom

01:07:49 ◼   ► that about the only time it ever gets used

01:07:51 ◼   ► is for me to tell it to ignore, clear my notifications

01:07:54 ◼   ► after a delivery from Amazon.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Or occasionally Penny will go to sleep in her bed

01:07:59 ◼   ► in the bedroom while we're downstairs watching TV

01:08:02 ◼   ► and so I will do a drop in up to the bedroom

01:08:04 ◼   ► to tell her to come downstairs and go pee

01:08:07 ◼   ► before we go to bed.

01:08:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, we've got one of those dots too, by the way,

01:08:09 ◼   ► and it is basically the Amazon has delivered something light

01:08:12 ◼   ► - Yep, exactly. - And I like it

01:08:13 ◼   ► for that function.

01:08:14 ◼   ► I like that I can, when it lights up, let me know

01:08:16 ◼   ► that there's a package and I mean, I won mine for free

01:08:20 ◼   ► in a work contest, so I didn't even pay for it,

01:08:23 ◼   ► but it keeps working and when I tell it

01:08:25 ◼   ► to clear notifications, it does every time

01:08:27 ◼   ► and when I do my little three voice assistant competitions

01:08:30 ◼   ► from the dining room table, it participates gamely,

01:08:34 ◼   ► so well worth the $0 I paid for it.

01:08:38 ◼   ► - Go team.

01:08:38 ◼   ► But yeah, I don't know, I've never had, like I said,

01:08:40 ◼   ► a screen-based one in my house or in my life

01:08:43 ◼   ► and I have some friends or we have some friends

01:08:46 ◼   ► that are local and will be at their house

01:08:48 ◼   ► from time to time and they have, I don't even know

01:08:50 ◼   ► the name of the device, but it's a Amazon device

01:08:53 ◼   ► that is a screen that looks roughly the size

01:08:56 ◼   ► of a laptop screen, you ever take a little bit?

01:08:58 ◼   ► And it seems to me like it's a rotating billboard

01:09:01 ◼   ► of stuff that I am deeply uninterested in.

01:09:04 ◼   ► Now, that very well could be that that's how they set it up

01:09:06 ◼   ► and maybe I would set it up differently and better

01:09:09 ◼   ► or whatever the case may be, but based on that one

01:09:11 ◼   ► experience, no thanks.

01:09:13 ◼   ► That doesn't mean that this doesn't have a place in my life,

01:09:17 ◼   ► particularly if it's done with a little more taste,

01:09:20 ◼   ► which I assume Apple would, but knowing what little

01:09:23 ◼   ► I know now, I don't feel like I have a need for it,

01:09:26 ◼   ► but that's also the same thing I say about every freaking

01:09:28 ◼   ► device that Apple ever makes, so here we are.

01:09:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I think your experience with seeing

01:09:34 ◼   ► a lot of mediocrity in the Amazon products with screens,

01:09:38 ◼   ► that mirrors I think almost every report I've ever heard

01:09:40 ◼   ► about them, and I even had the very first Echo Show

01:09:43 ◼   ► that was the very first Echo with a screen,

01:09:45 ◼   ► I actually bought one and returned it within one day

01:09:47 ◼   ► of having it, because what we very quickly learned

01:09:51 ◼   ► with the Echo Show series is that you can't trust

01:09:55 ◼   ► Amazon with a screen, they just use it to promote

01:09:59 ◼   ► stuff at you, you are literally paying them money

01:10:02 ◼   ► to have them advertise and yell in your face,

01:10:06 ◼   ► and that's not a great product experience for most people.

01:10:09 ◼   ► You can turn off some of those things, but then they'll

01:10:11 ◼   ► just add new ones and opt you in, because that's

01:10:14 ◼   ► a wonderful trick that for some reason is legal.

01:10:16 ◼   ► So what we see is we see the failure modes of these products.

01:10:20 ◼   ► In Amazon's case, the failure mode is they just use it

01:10:24 ◼   ► as an advertising channel to spew ads at you

01:10:27 ◼   ► in various forms, whether it's promoted news stories

01:10:31 ◼   ► or direct actual just ads, whatever it is,

01:10:34 ◼   ► they're spewing stuff at you that you don't want.

01:10:36 ◼   ► In Apple's case, the failure mode will be

01:10:39 ◼   ► unreliability and neglect, so we have to see,

01:10:42 ◼   ► I think I will trust Apple for the most part,

01:10:47 ◼   ► not absolutely, but for the most part, I trust Apple

01:10:52 ◼   ► not to be as egregious as Amazon in spamming us

01:10:57 ◼   ► with stuff we don't want.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Now-- - When you walk into the room

01:10:59 ◼   ► and there's a new Apple TV+ show filling the entire screen,

01:11:03 ◼   ► we'll know they've failed in this regard.

01:11:05 ◼   ► - Hey, how about a sports team score that I don't care about?

01:11:08 ◼   ► You know you can catch this right now on Apple TV+?

01:11:10 ◼   ► - That is a user interface failure.

01:11:12 ◼   ► Apple's not trying to sell us anything

01:11:14 ◼   ► with those sports scores, they're just,

01:11:15 ◼   ► scores, they're just annoying us in ways

01:11:17 ◼   ► that we could not figure out how to stop

01:11:18 ◼   ► without extreme effort, so that is not,

01:11:20 ◼   ► that's just bad UI in there, but the Apple TV+ shows,

01:11:24 ◼   ► I think, is an example of them being like,

01:11:25 ◼   ► 'cause they put 'em in the keynotes now,

01:11:27 ◼   ► it's like, hey, while we've got your attention,

01:11:28 ◼   ► did you know there's a new TV show coming out

01:11:30 ◼   ► on the service that we want you to subscribe to?

01:11:33 ◼   ► - Or you could also see them, in various ways,

01:11:36 ◼   ► they have eroded the user experience on iOS over the years

01:11:41 ◼   ► to do things like harass you with notifications

01:11:44 ◼   ► and full screen takeovers and stuff for things like,

01:11:47 ◼   ► if you haven't bought Apple Music,

01:11:49 ◼   ► if you aren't an Apple Music subscriber,

01:11:50 ◼   ► and you try to use the music app, good luck with that.

01:11:52 ◼   ► If you don't buy Apple Care for your phone,

01:11:55 ◼   ► you go to the settings app, good luck with that.

01:11:57 ◼   ► They do advertise at us, and they are getting

01:12:02 ◼   ► more and more shameless about it,

01:12:03 ◼   ► and so I would expect a product like this

01:12:06 ◼   ► to not be immune to that, but I think it would be

01:12:08 ◼   ► a vastly different level lower than what Amazon does

01:12:12 ◼   ► with their Echo Show series.

01:12:13 ◼   ► So anyway, so we see this kind of product line.

01:12:17 ◼   ► The problem with, Google also has their own versions of this

01:12:21 ◼   ► and I don't have any experience with them.

01:12:23 ◼   ► Jon, your Google things don't have screens, right?

01:12:25 ◼   ► - No, I was just looking at the Nest Hub Max,

01:12:27 ◼   ► which looks very much like what Apple is competing with.

01:12:30 ◼   ► It's the more expensive one, it's like a little

01:12:32 ◼   ► Android tablet on an angle on a little stand

01:12:35 ◼   ► that probably does all the things that Android tablets do,

01:12:37 ◼   ► but in a more limited homey version of it,

01:12:39 ◼   ► that definitely just looks, I mean,

01:12:41 ◼   ► Google's not gonna be advertising to you

01:12:43 ◼   ► as much as Amazon is, but it's like a Google ecosystem

01:12:46 ◼   ► version of this, and I feel like that is probably

01:12:49 ◼   ► Apple's target is the Nest Hub Max with its functionality,

01:12:51 ◼   ► but it'll be in the Apple ecosystem as well.

01:12:54 ◼   ► So if you just did want something to show you

01:12:56 ◼   ► your Google calendar, maybe the Nest Hub Max is the answer,

01:12:58 ◼   ► but I haven't actually used it, so I don't know

01:13:00 ◼   ► how annoying it is and how flexible it is.

01:13:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I don't know anything about it, we'll see.

01:13:04 ◼   ► I haven't really heard anything about people who use those,

01:13:06 ◼   ► so I don't think there's a lot of them,

01:13:09 ◼   ► but I would suspect that might suffer as many

01:13:12 ◼   ► kind of side Google projects do, probably from a lack

01:13:15 ◼   ► of attention, but that's just speculation.

01:13:17 ◼   ► - And Google is a little bit more invested

01:13:19 ◼   ► in the ad ecosystem than Apple is, let's say.

01:13:21 ◼   ► - Sure, sure, but I do think Amazon historically

01:13:24 ◼   ► is the most egregious at spamming you through their Alexa

01:13:28 ◼   ► products, through the Echo products, like with extra

01:13:32 ◼   ► commentary that promotes some stuff you can do,

01:13:34 ◼   ► with extra content, extra things showing up on your screen.

01:13:38 ◼   ► So we know with the Amazon products how that fails.

01:13:42 ◼   ► Apple just seems like, if they're gonna do this,

01:13:44 ◼   ► again, we don't know much about this, obviously,

01:13:46 ◼   ► but if they're gonna do something like this,

01:13:49 ◼   ► it seems like it rests on a lot of assumptions

01:13:52 ◼   ► about subsystems that work better than they do,

01:13:57 ◼   ► a lot of architecture and infrastructure

01:13:58 ◼   ► that doesn't seem to exist yet or is barely being deployed

01:14:01 ◼   ► in the form of Apple Intelligence, into a market

01:14:05 ◼   ► of hardware that is not nearly as good as Apple

01:14:09 ◼   ► purports it to be or wants it to be, with HomeKit stuff,

01:14:14 ◼   ► and relying on a market of software in the form of apps

01:14:17 ◼   ► and app intents and things like that, where like,

01:14:20 ◼   ► how do we know apps are even gonna take advantage

01:14:22 ◼   ► of app intents, how many apps are actually going

01:14:23 ◼   ► to adopt this new API, how many apps are going to want

01:14:26 ◼   ► to be controlled headlessly through Siri

01:14:29 ◼   ► and Apple Intelligence without making you go into the app

01:14:32 ◼   ► and see all the apps, promos and stuff.

01:14:34 ◼   ► So there's a lot of faith going into this product

01:14:39 ◼   ► from the way it's described here, that I'm not sure

01:14:42 ◼   ► I would have a lot of strong confidence in.

01:14:45 ◼   ► So I don't know, this remains to be seen.

01:14:48 ◼   ► I do see the market for a dashboard type of thing,

01:14:53 ◼   ► but I don't know that that's this,

01:14:55 ◼   ► but I guess we'll find out.

01:14:56 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, if the price is low enough,

01:14:58 ◼   ► all your concerns really don't make that much

01:15:00 ◼   ► of a difference because it's like, well,

01:15:01 ◼   ► think of it this way, do you currently have an old iPad

01:15:04 ◼   ► that you use to listen to music in your kitchen?

01:15:06 ◼   ► Well, this is a cheap version of an old iPad

01:15:09 ◼   ► that you use to listen to music.

01:15:10 ◼   ► If you subscribe to Apple Music,

01:15:11 ◼   ► and that's how you listen to music,

01:15:12 ◼   ► you already subscribe to it, and you're currently using

01:15:14 ◼   ► an old iPad in your kitchen, this will probably have,

01:15:17 ◼   ► it'll be cheaper than that iPad was when it was new.

01:15:19 ◼   ► It will come with that little speaker stand thingy,

01:15:21 ◼   ► which presumably will have better sound

01:15:23 ◼   ► than your iPad speakers, and it's designed for this.

01:15:25 ◼   ► It's got a little stand, you don't have to prop it up

01:15:27 ◼   ► on something, or maybe it's even waterproof now.

01:15:30 ◼   ► It certainly won't be, but you can dream, right?

01:15:33 ◼   ► And you can do FaceTime from it more easily

01:15:35 ◼   ► 'cause it'll have that center stage camera

01:15:38 ◼   ► or whatever thing, and maybe the robot,

01:15:40 ◼   ► even if it does none of the things