00:00:16 ◼ ► to you by Squarespace and Ooni Pizza Ovens. My name is Mike Hurley and I have the pleasure
00:00:33 ◼ ► for you. It comes from Braden, who wants to know, "Jason, on a previous episode, you discussed
00:01:03 ◼ ► I know that, and that's right outside. In fact, so I wrote about that this week on Mass
00:01:14 ◼ ► widget. So I use the excellent scriptable app, which lets you, among other things, write
00:01:43 ◼ ► outside. And my weather widget on my iPhone in standby mode in the kitchen said 68 degrees.
00:01:53 ◼ ► And that was like really, really wrong. And it showed how the relying on non-local sources
00:02:00 ◼ ► for temperatures here in our weird Bay Area micro-climb was a bad idea. So I updated the
00:02:08 ◼ ► scriptable widget to support standby, which just, it's a small widget blown up and I had
00:02:14 ◼ ► to do a couple of tweaks. But now it actually shows the current, my phone in standby is
00:02:19 ◼ ► showing the data from my weather station as well as a forecast from Apple weather, from
00:02:30 ◼ ► about the software side first, I have an app that's a very old, but continues to be updated
00:02:35 ◼ ► Mac app called WeatherCat that talks to the weather station and pulls down the data and
00:02:42 ◼ ► then generates a webpage with it. And I'm also generating a bunch of JSON and some other
00:02:48 ◼ ► feed stuff with it too. And then I got a bunch of scripts that run on my Mac mini server
00:03:05 ◼ ► comes with a webpage you can look at that shows current status. But like, I really like
00:03:13 ◼ ► like that. And then my scripts parse the data file and do stuff with it and generate charts.
00:03:33 ◼ ► worked. So that's the software side. I will put some links in the show notes of some of
00:03:37 ◼ ► my stories on six colors about it. The weather station, in fact, we'll put a link in the
00:03:42 ◼ ► show notes to the story I wrote when I decommissioned my old weather station after 17 years on
00:03:47 ◼ ► the job. I put it in in 2004. It lasted until 2022 where it finally sort of like, I replaced
00:04:00 ◼ ► its life. And so I, and they had updated it over time, but like, cause the internet wasn't
00:04:12 ◼ ► had to have an adapter and I had to connect and over the years I updated it, but it was
00:04:24 ◼ ► and because that original station was a Davis Vantage Pro, I decided I would buy another
00:04:30 ◼ ► Davis weather station. The Davis weather stations are a little bit more, they're a little bit
00:04:39 ◼ ► really nice, simple weather stations that you can get from like Netatmo and places like
00:04:45 ◼ ► that. But I got the Davis Vantage View this time, which is a little cheaper. Some of the
00:05:06 ◼ ► wireless receiver cause it's completely wireless. It's solar powered. And then this little box
00:05:12 ◼ ► sits in my house attached to my network and receives the data from that. And then everything
00:05:18 ◼ ► else talks to the data. So Vantage View. And I do not have the console because I got rid
00:05:27 ◼ ► of the console. They sell you a very seventies, almost eighties, I guess, looking console
00:05:45 ◼ ► and it's unnecessary. So the new one is entirely just like if you want to look at the temperature,
00:06:19 ◼ ► are looking for, and thank you to everybody that is sending in summer related, you know,
00:06:25 ◼ ► warm related, warmth related, anything kind of questions for Snow Talk. Just go to upgrade
00:06:32 ◼ ► I just want to point out that Snow Talk was built to get me to not talk about the weather.
00:07:00 ◼ ► We're in follow up now. Well, we're following up from last week where we spoke about the
00:07:03 ◼ ► fact that 4th of July was coming. 4th of July has happened. We're following up on that.
00:07:15 ◼ ► Great. It was lovely. It was a hot day. We had a bit of a heat wave. Sorry for the weather
00:07:24 ◼ ► it gets hot, it doesn't get that hot. I fixed a weather widget just for fun recreationally.
00:07:35 ◼ ► We walked the dog, read the book, sat outside because it was a nice warm day. We cooked
00:07:44 ◼ ► on the grill because we didn't want to cook inside because it was a warm day. We had set
00:07:48 ◼ ► up, we got stuff the day before so that we could do a proper 4th of July. We had burgers.
00:07:54 ◼ ► We had grilled zucchini. We had grilled corn. You soak ears of corn for a couple hours and
00:08:08 ◼ ► cook themselves. Then we ate it outside. Another thing I did, our outdoor table hasn't gotten
00:08:15 ◼ ► a lot of use this year so far and I got the power washer out and washed it down. We got
00:08:23 ◼ ► to eat at the table outside. It was very nice. It was lovely. That was what we were going
00:08:29 ◼ ► for for 4th of July. That was it. It was just pretty simple. Our son's home. The three of
00:08:53 ◼ ► Yeah, bad day for all conservatives really if you think about it. But yes, we effectively
00:08:59 ◼ ► installed a new government which seems like it's harder and harder to do these days but
00:09:14 ◼ ► I have some follow up. Bradley and Josh wrote in regarding the Upgrade American quiz. Bradley
00:09:25 ◼ ► and then continued in Upgrade Plus last week. Go to getupgradeplus.com and sign up if you
00:09:34 ◼ ► United States is the Missouri River, not the Mississippi River. I'm a hydraulic engineer
00:09:39 ◼ ► who works on Mississippi River projects for both navigation and environmental purposes.
00:09:44 ◼ ► I do a decent amount of public outreach for my job as well and the Missouri River being
00:09:49 ◼ ► the longest is always a fun bit of trivia I try to work in for audience participation."
00:09:54 ◼ ► And Josh says, "People disagree as to whether the Missouri or the Mississippi is the longest
00:10:12 ◼ ► I for one cannot believe that people are doubting the accuracy of an apparently AI generated
00:10:22 ◼ ► involved many repeated questions. Some questions that were clearly wrong that I skipped, some
00:10:35 ◼ ► said I was disappointed because every answer was A, I had to go look because I didn't disbelieve
00:10:46 ◼ ► right answer be A. It's not true. Their right answers came from all the different letters
00:11:13 ◼ ► Well, you know, according to the quiz, I got it correct and that's kind of all that matters.
00:11:17 ◼ ► Well, I think that was my feedback to Bradley was I think the point is that the answer in
00:11:44 ◼ ► I will. I did. I was very proud of myself. I think I did well. William wrote in to say,
00:11:49 ◼ ► Ming-Chi Kuo's suggestion that the infrared cameras in AirPods are being meant for spatial
00:12:05 ◼ ► leading to gradual shifts that must be corrected. It also works poorly in cars, trains, planes,
00:12:15 ◼ ► fixed objects nearby. I have actually experienced what William is talking about, where I've
00:12:28 ◼ ► And you feel it shift. You can feel it shift. You say, "Well, that's not right." But obviously
00:12:34 ◼ ► That's not it. What's happening is it doesn't know and it may have drifted over time. So
00:12:40 ◼ ► if you settle in a new sort of like standard position, at some point it infers from that
00:12:47 ◼ ► Yeah. That was kind of what I meant, but I fully explained it. Right. So this is interesting.
00:12:56 ◼ ► great point, but I still think we can go back to what we were talking about. The idea that
00:13:04 ◼ ► Yeah. That's, I appreciate William's phrasing here isn't entirely nonsense. It's not, and
00:13:09 ◼ ► I'm aware of the recentering kind of system. First off, yeah. The Mingshi quote report was,
00:13:22 ◼ ► we take Vision Pro out of it and we say just AirPods in general, my argument is I don't
00:13:27 ◼ ► see how you need to add a camera just to make it slightly better. Like it's good enough.
00:13:35 ◼ ► It's not important enough of a feature to go to the lengths of adding an infrared camera
00:13:48 ◼ ► the case of how will the poor Vision Pro know which way is up because it does. It's got
00:13:56 ◼ ► camera in the AirPods could be inward facing and could monitor temperature of the human
00:14:05 ◼ ► interesting thought that the infrared camera is actually the inside camera. And this came
00:14:09 ◼ ► up, I think you guys on Connected may have been talking about this, a podcast I listened
00:14:13 ◼ ► to last week, I'm not sure, was talking about AirPods and the phrase, maybe it was ATP,
00:14:20 ◼ ► the phrase, "There's not a microphone on the inside" came up. And I thought, well, there
00:14:24 ◼ ► is. There is a microphone on the inside of AirPods. That's how it does its noise canceling
00:14:31 ◼ ► is it's not just noise canceling the outside. It's actually listening to what happens on
00:14:52 ◼ ► your AirPods are going to start monitoring health data feature? Maybe possible. I don't
00:15:03 ◼ ► this a cheap expedient way to measure temperature or is there a cheaper, more expedient way
00:15:20 ◼ ► Apple's F1 movie is going to be called F1. It previously was untitled and they're using
00:15:25 ◼ ► the Formula One logo, which is very intriguing to me. They've also released a trailer of
00:15:29 ◼ ► the movie, which I thought looked also interesting. The thing that I was most drawn by is the
00:15:44 ◼ ► be shown in IMAX, which is what I was hoping would happen because it felt like that was
00:15:48 ◼ ► the right approach for this movie. It's starting to feel like to me that this may be Apple's
00:16:02 ◼ ► like Napoleon and Killers of the Flower Moon where they felt like somewhat limited releases.
00:16:11 ◼ ► that this feels like more of a concerted effort to release this movie widely, which I think
00:16:16 ◼ ► is the right move for it. Napoleon and Killers of the Flower Moon were also sort of awards
00:16:28 ◼ ► And what this feels like is Apple is releasing what is essentially a blockbuster and they
00:16:33 ◼ ► wanted to do really well in theaters. And that's yeah, that feels different than saying
00:16:38 ◼ ► to Ridley Scott and Martin Scorsese, yes, we will give you a theatrical release. Exactly.
00:16:52 ◼ ► know, maybe a special effects award or something like that. Who knows? We've been talking a
00:17:05 ◼ ► to be is focused to work with the Vision Pro to improve gaming and experiences with the
00:17:17 ◼ ► would have to integrate the Surreal SDK into their app. There's also a way to connect it
00:17:26 ◼ ► game developer, you would integrate the Surreal SDK into your app as a controller option.
00:17:32 ◼ ► And then you would be able to use their hand controllers, which look pretty nice. I mean,
00:17:36 ◼ ► they look very, very influenced by the Oculus controllers with along with your Vision Pro.
00:17:40 ◼ ► Yeah, I got this from a lot of people. And it's unclear how many of them sort of thought,
00:17:45 ◼ ► well, here you go. But as I said to several of them, the problem is it's not from Apple.
00:17:53 ◼ ► So like game developers aren't going to flock to Vision Pro now with their things that require
00:17:59 ◼ ► that level of integration with a hand controller and build them to an API that supports a single
00:18:05 ◼ ► company's product, which is what this is. So this feels very PR stunty to me. And their
00:18:12 ◼ ► fallback is that they have an app. Yeah, that works with Steam on a PC to let you play Steam
00:18:20 ◼ ► games on the Vision Pro and use their controllers. And like, I don't know, I'm glad this product
00:18:28 ◼ ► apparently is going to exist if it doesn't already. But like the solution is there needs
00:18:34 ◼ ► to be an SDK for this from Apple. There needs to be support in Vision OS for hand controllers
00:18:43 ◼ ► so that multiple third parties can make hand controllers and app developers just have to
00:18:55 ◼ ► Apple just needs to build the API and then let it happen. Let the app store happen. Let
00:19:10 ◼ ► it feels very much like we've got a solution. Yeah, I don't envision this changing the world.
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00:22:05 ◼ ► Here we go. Here we go again. Here we go again. This time over Epic's alternative app marketplace.
00:22:23 ◼ ► design of the install buttons for the applications that are inside the marketplace. Apple said
00:22:29 ◼ ► it was too similar to the design of Apple's get button in the app store, as well as Epic's
00:22:34 ◼ ► labeling of in-app purchases looking too similar to Apple's. After Epic went public with this,
00:22:40 ◼ ► the next day Apple approved a previously rejected notarization. They say, "Oh no, this one
00:22:46 ◼ ► is fine," even though they previously rejected it for these reasons. But they have said to
00:22:49 ◼ ► Epic that this rejection is temporary and they expect the buttons to be changed. Epic have
00:23:06 ◼ ► I, okay. Look, Epic does a lot of stuff. I think Epic is often a jerk. I think Tim Sweeney
00:23:39 ◼ ► Sweeney, "Can you post the screenshots?" And they're like, "No, we're not going to do that.
00:23:43 ◼ ► We're not going to play that game." He's like, "Ah." And Ryan Jones' answer was something
00:23:46 ◼ ► like, "I'm just asking because Apple's complained about that stuff with my apps too." It does
00:24:23 ◼ ► And I think that Apple, it's not quite politicizing, but Apple making notarization something other
00:24:43 ◼ ► bad. Let's just, I'll put it that way. I think you are turning something that is meant to
00:24:49 ◼ ► be essentially neutral, essentially just a, "Let's make sure this follows some very specific
00:24:57 ◼ ► rules so people aren't harmed, but we're not interceding as a gatekeeper. We're more just
00:25:03 ◼ ► checking things out as a platform owner." It requires Apple to think of itself as a platform
00:25:09 ◼ ► owner and not as a gatekeeper. That's sort of the deal there. And that's why it's allowed
00:25:16 ◼ ► by the EU. If the EU allows the notarization step, it's because the notarization step is
00:25:23 ◼ ► not being used to be a gatekeeper. Otherwise, they won't allow it. Otherwise, they'll say
00:25:27 ◼ ► you can't notarize apps. And that has restrictions, that has problems because it is a security
00:25:33 ◼ ► measure. So what makes me mad about the situation is Apple is taking a security measure that
00:25:38 ◼ ► is probably good and necessary and saves everybody from really bad stuff in the EU in this
00:25:56 ◼ ► spend months holding up your apps like what Riley Testud says is happening with Alt Store."
00:26:17 ◼ ► Especially when Apple makes it so hard to install these things in the first place. Nobody's
00:26:23 ◼ ► So suggesting that a design button, and I'll also say something so generic as an install
00:26:37 ◼ ► is is it's Apple using security as an excuse to exert control that they're used to exerting.
00:26:45 ◼ ► And I have a hard time seeing a scenario here where Apple isn't in the wrong. Apple needs
00:26:55 ◼ ► slapped for it because they're turning their security excuse into just that, into a thing
00:27:08 ◼ ► And they promised not to do that. They haven't done it on the Mac, but in the EU it seems
00:27:14 ◼ ► like they have decided to change their story and say, "No, we're gonna use iOS notarization
00:27:19 ◼ ► to reject anything that displeases us and act as a gatekeeper." And again, I think notarization
00:27:26 ◼ ► is a good step to have in the process. I think having Apple as a platform owner look at stuff
00:27:32 ◼ ► that's coming in and say, "Oh, this is malware. We're not gonna sign it. We're gonna reject
00:27:37 ◼ ► it," is a good thing. But if you start turning it into an app store rejection and approval
00:27:43 ◼ ► process that has a lot to do with things that are not fundamental security, but it's like,
00:28:01 ◼ ► terrible," but it's on them. They're the ones who are muddying what should be a very clear,
00:28:07 ◼ ► pristine, straightforward notarization process as it is and has been for years now on macOS.
00:28:14 ◼ ► I'm gonna read the Notarization for iOS Apps guidelines for security. "Apps cannot enable
00:28:22 ◼ ► distribution of malware or suspicious or unwanted software. They cannot download executable
00:28:27 ◼ ► code, read outside of the container or direct users to lower the security on their system
00:28:32 ◼ ► or device. Also, apps must provide transparency and allow user consent to enable any party
00:28:38 ◼ ► to access the system or device or reconfigure the system or other software." I don't know
00:28:43 ◼ ► within that the issue around a "Get" button. And the other things, accuracy, functionality,
00:28:49 ◼ ► safety, and privacy definitely doesn't apply to either of these as well, and this is from
00:28:55 ◼ ► the review guidelines. So I think it's very clear at this point, as you said, that Apple
00:29:07 ◼ ► but they appear to be doing, because I can't see a scenario looking at the notarization
00:29:41 ◼ ► a gatekeeper, and the more they make it arbitrary and not like Mac OS, the more they're a gatekeeper.
00:29:48 ◼ ► And there's a scenario where this is fine, where everyone could be like, "Yeah, you know
00:29:53 ◼ ► what? If you're checking for malware on viruses, we're not going to argue with that, that makes
00:29:58 ◼ ► sense, but it should be an automatic process, but it isn't." And now there's just more...
00:30:05 ◼ ► And the thing I don't understand, Jason, right? I kind of get to a point, we were talking
00:30:10 ◼ ► about those a couple of weeks ago, the emulator apps, and they reject them, right? That they
00:30:14 ◼ ► maybe want to do that and get away with it. But this is epic, why would you do this? Do
00:30:21 ◼ ► you think that they weren't going to complain? Like, what was your endgame here? It's very
00:30:32 ◼ ► so Epic complained, so they said it's okay, but you still got to check." It's like, what
00:30:35 ◼ ► is going on here? Like, what is the goal that they're trying to achieve from this? It's
00:30:50 ◼ ► eroded my trust is in Apple using mechanisms like Gatekeeper, or as a Gatekeeper, mechanisms
00:30:59 ◼ ► like notarization to do things beyond their remit as a steward of their platform and using
00:31:08 ◼ ► it as a crude blunt instrument to smash stuff they don't like, in violation, I think, of
00:31:14 ◼ ► the certainly the spirit of the DMA, and act as a Gatekeeper and erect new gates in order
00:31:24 ◼ ► I think it's super telling that Epic, a company I do not like, run by a guy I think is a jerk,
00:31:32 ◼ ► I think they've got more credibility in this than Apple does. I think people at Apple should
00:31:37 ◼ ► consider that somebody like me, who observes this stuff, trusts Epic, who I don't like,
00:31:46 ◼ ► and believes them more than I believe Apple's claims at this point. And that's where Apple
00:31:51 ◼ ► is right now, is that I'm inclined to believe that this is Apple based on a whole track
00:31:56 ◼ ► record. And like, again, if Apple wants to explain itself, by all means explain yourself.
00:32:01 ◼ ► What they're doing is the same game plan as when they were arbitrarily rejecting things
00:32:23 ◼ ► not worth it, just let it through, and we'll bureaucrat them later with a fix it ticket.
00:32:31 ◼ ► Like I just, again, if they want to make their point, I'm happy to hear it, but I don't,
00:32:38 ◼ ► it looks an awful lot like they are completely ruining the concept of notarization as a security
00:32:44 ◼ ► measure because they can't let go of the control of their platform. And I understand why they
00:32:51 ◼ ► want control of their platform, but you know what? The European Commission has said they
00:33:09 ◼ ► get why they don't like it, but I also don't like the idea that notarization is being turned
00:33:15 ◼ ► into a de facto app approval. Because what I don't like about it is it feels like they're
00:33:20 ◼ ► being disingenuous. That's what I don't like about it. Like they said it was going to be
00:33:27 ◼ ► this point, especially when, well, if Apple, if you don't feel that way, then let's talk
00:33:46 ◼ ► powerful company who have performed some stunts against Apple, but these are stunts that I
00:33:53 ◼ ► ultimately agreed with where they were coming from, right? Like what people don't like Epic
00:33:58 ◼ ► for in a lot of instances is what they, you know, by sneaking in the in-app purchase stuff
00:34:10 ◼ ► we are currently sitting is did Apple really have the right to own all of the in-app purchase
00:34:15 ◼ ► flow for something that they were ultimately uninvolved with, with the success of Fortnite?
00:34:20 ◼ ► Fortnite wasn't successful because of Apple, right? But yet they wanted their 30%. Like
00:34:25 ◼ ► that's what a lot of people don't like Epic for, but if you like any of what's happening
00:34:30 ◼ ► now, like anything that's happening now, Epic had the reason for it. But then I also think
00:34:56 ◼ ► about the fact that they're playing this game with this particular company. Like it doesn't,
00:35:10 ◼ ► I also think, you know, one of their motivations here, I mean, I think some of this at this
00:35:19 ◼ ► an enemy and they're going to treat him that way. But I think there's a larger issue here,
00:35:23 ◼ ► which is Apple has often been motivated to take their cut, right? They believe that they,
00:35:30 ◼ ► platform. Well, that's fine, but you got to cut us in. We want our cut. That's a classic
00:35:34 ◼ ► Apple maneuver. It's been like that for years. Apple wants its money and Apple believes that
00:35:38 ◼ ► everybody that's on its products and platforms and is making money from things that are related
00:35:53 ◼ ► it in the late nineties and they want their money. And I look at something like this and
00:35:57 ◼ ► think you're following this instinct so far that I don't know about European regulators
00:36:03 ◼ ► and politics and things like that, but I look at this and think for want of your cut, you're
00:36:15 ◼ ► that will lead to an enormous fine from the EU, which is it, it's like you agreed to fix
00:36:34 ◼ ► right? Let alone now what they're doing. Post it. Very strange, very strange. Saddle up
00:36:43 ◼ ► for Rumor Roundup. Yeehaw. Mark Gurman is reporting that Phil Schiller will get an observer
00:36:48 ◼ ► board seat at Open AI as part of their arrangement with Apple. They're like Apple will get a
00:36:53 ◼ ► seat and that is going to be filled by Phil Schiller. This is the same arrangement that
00:36:59 ◼ ► Open AI have with Microsoft where they have, I believe it's Satya Nadella sits on the board
00:37:11 ◼ ► AI will be kicked out and then coming back and they changed the whole board. An observer
00:37:22 ◼ ► because they're on the board, they are aware of the company roadmap. They, they're, they're
00:37:27 ◼ ► present in board meetings, et cetera. Well, I think it's great that they're giving Phil
00:37:31 ◼ ► Schiller stuff to do. I think he's already doing a lot of stuff. I think that whole previous
00:37:37 ◼ ► thing we spoke about, he might have been involved in that, but Phil Schiller being given a seat
00:37:42 ◼ ► on the board or as you put it, the seat that will be filled by Phil Schiller. I just want
00:37:45 ◼ ► to say the phrase Phil Schiller's seat filler. Oh, anyway. Um, because that's where we are.
00:37:51 ◼ ► Phil Schiller seat filler. There he is. He's there. I have seen people like everybody needs
00:38:00 ◼ ► And what do they do and why are they getting in bed with these awful people and all this
00:38:35 ◼ ► they are doing good stuff or whether they're going off the rails. I think it's obviously
00:38:39 ◼ ► much more important for Microsoft that is hugely invested in Open AI and it's much more
00:38:47 ◼ ► mission critical for Microsoft than Apple. But this idea of having some actual like real
00:38:53 ◼ ► tech companies watching the clown show at Open AI and making sure that they don't continue,
00:39:00 ◼ ► you know, return to their clownish ways that they're not doing stuff that's bizarre. Like
00:39:06 ◼ ► I view it as that. This is not adult supervision. It's more like adults in the room to offer
00:39:19 ◼ ► a Open AI is up to. So, oh, there's this exciting thing they're working on, right? Well, how
00:39:30 ◼ ► thinking about all of this, right? Where it's Apple's coming in and getting the same, the
00:39:44 ◼ ► see what, what Microsoft's end game is here. Like, because what it looks like is they're
00:39:48 ◼ ► starting to build their own stuff that they will be able to replace. And it's like, well
00:39:54 ◼ ► then what happens to Open AI? Because Open AI benefits significantly from the infrastructure
00:39:59 ◼ ► they get from Microsoft. Really interesting. I think based on such in Dell's history, I
00:40:04 ◼ ► actually think he doesn't care because this is not the Microsoft of old. Yeah. Microsoft
00:40:08 ◼ ► doesn't have a mobile operating system, right? It doesn't, it's got windows. That's great.
00:40:14 ◼ ► They're integrating all this stuff into copilot PCs and all that. They don't have a mobile
00:40:17 ◼ ► operating system and they're heavily invested in Open AI and the competition is Google.
00:40:22 ◼ ► And along this one particular axis, it's Apple and Microsoft and Open AI on one side and
00:40:35 ◼ ► they said, if there's something top secret that is involving the Microsoft relationship
00:40:38 ◼ ► with Open AI, they can, you know, they'll, they'll ask Phil Schiller to leave the room.
00:40:42 ◼ ► He will leave his seat that he was filling, feeling fulfilled and Phil will move outside
00:40:49 ◼ ► for a Phil's coffee maybe. I mean, technically any coffee that Phil Schiller has is Phil's
00:40:53 ◼ ► coffee. Anyway, I'm just enjoying that way too much. Phil's Phil's Phil coffee. And likewise,
00:40:59 ◼ ► if there's something that is super relevant to the Apple relationship and Microsoft needs
00:41:03 ◼ ► to not hear about it, they might ask such a Nadella to step outside as well. So I don't
00:41:08 ◼ ► think it's, I don't think it's that weird. And I also don't think it's that big a deal.
00:41:12 ◼ ► I think that there's a level of sort of courtesy involved here, which is like, since we're
00:41:16 ◼ ► going to be your partner, but it's my initial reaction was, you know, they're not paying
00:41:21 ◼ ► them. Nobody's paying anybody and it's an optional feature. And so why is it a big deal?
00:41:25 ◼ ► I think the reason it's a big deal is more what I said earlier, which is it's, it's Open
00:41:33 ◼ ► AI's best mobile platform access, right? Because their, their enemy is Google and Google controls
00:41:39 ◼ ► the other platform. So they need to be in a line with it, with Apple. And they want Apple
00:41:47 ◼ ► are. I think Apple, right. They've got all the warning labels. It's turned off by default.
00:41:52 ◼ ► It warns you when it goes to chat GPT. Apple is doing a kind of as a hedge, but also at
00:41:58 ◼ ► arm's length, but from Open AI's perspective, like it's a big deal because you know, they're
00:42:09 ◼ ► but you know, Google's AI is going to be in Android phones. That's how it is. It already
00:42:18 ◼ ► the most important tech space, which is, which is smartphones. So I think that's what's behind
00:42:24 ◼ ► Mark Gurman is also reporting on some details about the upcoming Apple watch releases for
00:42:30 ◼ ► this year. The series 10 will be getting a, will be getting bigger screens with the larger
00:42:54 ◼ ► Apple watch X that was going to be like all new and different. It's not going to be this
00:42:58 ◼ ► one, not this, the series 10 and the ultra, which would be otherwise unchanged. The Apple
00:43:08 ◼ ► chip, which would be in both the 10 and the ultra. Uh, Gurman says this quote could lay
00:43:13 ◼ ► the groundwork for AI enhancements down the road. I expect we'll see about that. I'm not
00:43:20 ◼ ► sure what that story is going to be. Uh, eight gigabytes of Ram embedded in the watch strap.
00:43:25 ◼ ► Yeah, no, I wrote, I wrote that whole story. I think we talked about, I wrote that whole
00:43:29 ◼ ► story last week for Mac world about, um, or, uh, not emoji fragmentation, Siri fragmentation
00:43:33 ◼ ► and the idea of like, there are ways for them to approach this and this might be that, right?
00:43:43 ◼ ► Apple intelligence and seem like it's got Apple intelligence, but most of it is happening
00:43:47 ◼ ► in the cloud or it's happening on its paired iPhone, like something else. Like I think,
00:43:52 ◼ ► cause cause remember it's a two layer or multiple layer model that they're doing the way Apple
00:43:58 ◼ ► intelligence is working. You're doing a, you're giving a command and then it's actually the
00:44:02 ◼ ► model is determining whether it's going to execute that on device or whether that's the
00:44:06 ◼ ► kind of thing that it needs to go to the cloud to do. And so what you'd want is a device
00:44:16 ◼ ► and has to hand it off. That's one way you could approach it. So beefing up the hardware,
00:44:21 ◼ ► but like, yeah, I, I think down the road is the key phrase there. Cause it may be like,
00:44:30 ◼ ► just not going to get there for another year. So yesterday I'm sitting on the couch and
00:44:36 ◼ ► I saw Adina's watch had the, like your battery's about to die thing. And I was like, do you
00:44:48 ◼ ► like, this watch is so small, like so small. Well, you have a, you have an ultra, right?
00:44:58 ◼ ► is tiny. And I, I mean, I spoke to her and I said like, you know, the rumors of the watches
00:45:04 ◼ ► are going to get bigger and she's like, Oh, I don't know. Because the current Apple watch,
00:45:17 ◼ ► petite person. And I'm just not, I'm very interested. I remain open-minded, but intrigued
00:45:22 ◼ ► about if these watches get like the screens get physically bigger, that is an interesting
00:45:39 ◼ ► Um, but we'll say the, this actually, I know it's one of your favorite topics. Yeah. If,
00:45:45 ◼ ► if there's this impulse toward doing more screen, like we need more screen on the Apple
00:46:01 ◼ ► interact, but I wonder it is a dangerous game they're playing. They make this, they make
00:46:06 ◼ ► the Apple watches larger. Are they aware of what portion of their user base might really
00:46:11 ◼ ► be resistant to having a larger Apple watch? This is the same way, the same argument with
00:46:15 ◼ ► phones. Like I know people like small phones. I had an iPhone mini, but Apple's decision
00:46:27 ◼ ► if you lose some people at the, at the bottom end, but it makes your product more popular
00:46:32 ◼ ► elsewhere than that's a decision you can make and people can be upset about it, but it could
00:46:36 ◼ ► be understandable, but there's a risk there. So, uh, what I, I just had the thought, you
00:46:50 ◼ ► a fitness band ish kind of Apple watch design that was really small and that rely cause
00:47:03 ◼ ► voice assistant and it's about syncing to the Apple watch and, or singing to the iPhone.
00:47:11 ◼ ► And you know, not everybody is super screen forward. Maybe there's a little tiny screen
00:47:20 ◼ ► Apple watch. And that would be one way you could push the Apple watch up and still have
00:47:24 ◼ ► people maybe like Adina and other people who don't need a full blown Apple watch with a
00:47:28 ◼ ► big screen to be happy. And I'm a little surprised that they haven't gone down that path of having,
00:47:34 ◼ ► you know, a lighter version of the Apple watch of watchOS. That's like a different product.
00:47:40 ◼ ► It's more like a fitness band. I'm a little surprised they haven't gone there. Yeah. And
00:47:43 ◼ ► while I want that product personally, I still don't, I, and I see where you're coming from
00:47:48 ◼ ► with that. I just think that there are a lot of people that would be upset about the watch
00:47:52 ◼ ► size changes. It's not that they necessarily don't want a watch, right? Like I feel like
00:48:03 ◼ ► than to just accept a bigger screen. A bigger screen. Well, yeah, I mean, this is, this
00:48:06 ◼ ► is the difficulty of marketing and I'm sure that they've done a lot of research of their
00:48:11 ◼ ► existing customers and potential customers and what their competition is doing when they
00:48:15 ◼ ► make these changes, just as they do with the iPhone. But yeah, this one seems really weird
00:48:20 ◼ ► on the outside. I, you know, the fitness band, I'm just thinking there's probably another
00:48:24 ◼ ► segment there that doesn't need, I'm fascinated by the impulse of let's make the screen bigger
00:48:46 ◼ ► thin. It's like, I get it on a, like a really broad scale, but in the end the product needs,
00:48:52 ◼ ► you know, is that your top profile? Is that your top reason here? You're like, Oh yeah,
00:49:01 ◼ ► I'm like, yeah, bigger screens can be nice, but like, I don't know at what cost, but they
00:49:07 ◼ ► are the ones who know who buys these things and they are the ones who know, or at least
00:49:10 ◼ ► they think they know based on their research and that's a tough job. So maybe they're right.
00:49:27 ◼ ► ultra-flying more of the Apple watch line. The ultra becomes just a rugged Apple watch.
00:49:33 ◼ ► It's no longer the big Apple watch. It's just the rugged Apple watch. It will have the battery
00:49:38 ◼ ► life though, compared to, because it, because it, because the Apple watch is really thick,
00:49:43 ◼ ► right? And it's, remember is that this one is going to get thinner. So yeah. And I also
00:49:48 ◼ ► agree, this was something that came up on, um, accidental type podcast last week, which
00:49:53 ◼ ► is, you know, our friend Casey lists, people love it when we talk about Casey on upgrade,
00:49:58 ◼ ► is a, it buys a, uh, buys a small Apple watch because he says he has small wrists. And Marco
00:50:02 ◼ ► made the point the other day, cause he saw him at WWDC. He said, you do not need to wear
00:50:12 ◼ ► is Apple sort of saying, lots of people think that they, that they want a smaller watch,
00:50:17 ◼ ► but they don't. And when we check and we test and we ask people and we try it, they don't.
00:50:39 ◼ ► it thinner, like significantly thinner, it would be comfortable in a different way. Cause
00:50:54 ◼ ► That it is thinner. And so it doesn't stick out as much, but it's a bit bigger. So you're
00:50:58 ◼ ► spreading it out instead of, instead of just expanding it, you're, you're kind of squishing
00:51:20 ◼ ► Um, but I think people have a hesitancy to it, but I just look at the phone thing, right?
00:51:26 ◼ ► That there is, what is that? The term stated and revealed preference, which by and large,
00:51:31 ◼ ► I don't necessarily agree with that thinking, especially when it comes to software and algorithms
00:51:36 ◼ ► and stuff. But I think that with, with phones that seems to have borne out that when people
00:51:42 ◼ ► get the choice of buying a phone, they tend to buy the bigger one, uh, or they try a bigger
00:51:52 ◼ ► to see if that applies to smartwatches. I don't know. But like for me, I love the ultra
00:52:08 ◼ ► but I don't think these are going to get their battery life improvement cause they're going
00:52:10 ◼ ► to make it thinner, which I do actually think is the right way. So if you're going to make
00:52:13 ◼ ► it, make it bigger, maybe that's the answer. It's all very subtle, but I'm looking down
00:52:17 ◼ ► on my watch now and I'm remembering the original Apple watch and like so small it, it, it, it's
00:52:33 ◼ ► And maybe one of the ways that you make it thinner is by expanding the footprint so that
00:52:38 ◼ ► the battery can, you know, take up, continue to take up a reasonable amount of volume while
00:52:43 ◼ ► not, you know, in the, in the, in the width while losing some of the height. I don't know.
00:52:48 ◼ ► And frankly, like it just comes back to the thing if Apple's making this decision, they're
00:52:52 ◼ ► making it for reasons that make sense for them. I, they can't try to appease everybody.
00:53:00 ◼ ► We seen them try to do that. Like they have that fourth phone and that fourth phone never
00:53:08 ◼ ► phone and it doesn't sell and they keep changing it. So, yeah, cause they've realized, I mean,
00:53:14 ◼ ► they're trying to find a market at the edges and it turns out that the, that maybe none
00:53:20 ◼ ► of the edges are a big enough market for them, right? Like maybe they've been searching around
00:53:25 ◼ ► in the dark like, well, what about this kind of phone? Well, what about this? And it may
00:53:28 ◼ ► be like, no, the iPhone, yes, having some other models to choose from is good, but like
00:53:33 ◼ ► when you start to push outside of the middle, big middle, none of them are worth it for
00:53:41 ◼ ► Apple again, for Apple to spend the time on it because you know, there are always going
00:53:46 ◼ ► to be companies making weird kind of niche shapes and sizes and stuff, but like for Apple
00:53:51 ◼ ► to do it, it really needs to sell incredibly well. And they've found in some cases that
00:53:58 ◼ ► I mean, I would say though that they should make a small phone before they should continue
00:54:02 ◼ ► making the Mac Pro. That's my, that's my take on that one. If you want to find some edges,
00:54:33 ◼ ► sensor changes this year. Apple continues work on their sleep apnea detection and blood
00:54:38 ◼ ► pressure monitoring as their next big things to go for before hopefully getting to a blood
00:54:43 ◼ ► glucose down the line, but they have hit development issues on these features as well as having
00:54:53 ◼ ► both or at least sleep apnea detection. They can't, it would be difficult for them to be
00:55:08 ◼ ► that they're not going to be able to take your blood pressure. It'll be like your blood
00:55:18 ◼ ► continued issue with the Apple watches. They've got a lot of sensor data that's feeding features
00:55:32 ◼ ► Well, the problem with, with, with the health sensors is they started off with an excellent
00:55:38 ◼ ► one, right? The heart rate monitoring, which they can do incredibly well. And then everything
00:55:48 ◼ ► that that disparity has gotten worse and worse over time. But you know, blood pressure going
00:55:54 ◼ ► up or down is interesting information to have, maybe more than the blood oxygen. The risk
00:56:03 ◼ ► temperature stuff I know is useful for people, so that's good. But you know, it's like,
00:56:08 ◼ ► ah, there, there are more hit and miss than like how it started with like, bang, here's
00:56:14 ◼ ► your heart rate. We can, we can give you that like incredibly precise and also we can save
00:56:24 ◼ ► since is a bit like, yeah, you know, you could kind of use it to check against the baseline,
00:56:31 ◼ ► which is less exciting. Although, you know, I'm, I am very intrigued about their vitals
00:56:36 ◼ ► thing that they're bringing, where it's like pulling in a bunch of information where maybe
00:56:44 ◼ ► So maybe, I mean, they're there, the sensors may get better. Yeah. The analysis of sensor
00:56:55 ◼ ► use machine learning algorithms to do analysis of data and you can pull some signal out of
00:56:58 ◼ ► the noise, which can be useful. So, you know, over time this may evolve, but there is also
00:57:03 ◼ ► just the challenge of a thing that's the size of like a big postage stamp sitting on your
00:57:07 ◼ ► wrist. And from there, all information about your body needs to be divined. That's hard
00:57:20 ◼ ► featuring a hard plastic case instead of aluminium in efforts to reduce the price. I think this
00:57:35 ◼ ► a G-Shock, right? Like that's what I was hoping for. They didn't give it to me, but I think
00:57:46 ◼ ► that like it's for young people and it's for older people. And it's like, you know what?
00:57:51 ◼ ► This thing is a watch for a purpose. It is not a watch for fashion. So we'll see if they
00:57:57 ◼ ► do that. I hope they do, but I, I don't know. I don't know. I think Apple was so burned
00:58:09 ◼ ► I think you do some fun stuff with that. Also plastic is bad for the environment and they
00:58:13 ◼ ► have all sorts of environmental commitments. So there's a question there too. Depends how
00:58:21 ◼ ► of course, but they can make a good, and also this is one of those sayings of like, what
00:58:26 ◼ ► is quote unquote plastic from this reporting? Right. What material are they actually using?
00:58:32 ◼ ► Yeah. And that there could be something else made of paper. It's really good pressed paper.
00:58:46 ◼ ► it's pressed and it's biodegradable. So you can, you can get it wet. You can get it wet,
00:59:04 ◼ ► found reference to a new home accessory, uh, in development from Apple. They found it in
00:59:10 ◼ ► some code being referred to as quote home accessory 17 comma one. This makes Mac rumors
00:59:22 ◼ ► would be a device running an a 18 chip featuring a variant of TV OS. This continues the hope
00:59:35 ◼ ► falls iPhone chip, which is interesting because that means it's potentially Apple intelligence,
00:59:43 ◼ ► right? Yeah. A variant of TV OS, which makes sense. This is the home pod with a screen,
00:59:49 ◼ ► right? It's I, some people did a mockup that makes it look like the G4 iMac, which is really
01:00:01 ◼ ► turn around and stuff. Mark Gurman keeps calling it a robot. He needs to stop. Um, do I have
01:00:14 ◼ ► might turn or tilt to keep your, your face in view? It's not a robot. It's just a thing
01:00:27 ◼ ► it's a reality. I wish you would stop because he, cause he's got this narrative about Apple's
01:00:32 ◼ ► also working on robotics and he keeps throwing this thing in and it's like, man, this is
01:00:36 ◼ ► just a home pod with a screen. This is not a robot. Stop making it part of Apple's robotics
01:00:46 ◼ ► a Google home nest, whatever in my kitchen. Uh, I would love, uh, having a home pod with
01:01:00 ◼ ► that. So I hope that's what this is. Me too. Also, finally, uh, Mark Gurman is reporting
01:01:06 ◼ ► in his power on newsletter, uh, that Apple intelligence features will launch to the public
01:01:20 ◼ ► would be the more like actual like heavy stuff, right? The beginnings of understanding a lot
01:01:29 ◼ ► more about your device and that, uh, because there would still be things this year like
01:01:38 ◼ ► intelligence would be coming all the way into spring of next year. She's wild. Not surprising,
01:01:52 ◼ ► was that a lot of this stuff, I mean, there will be, make no mistake, there will be Apple
01:01:59 ◼ ► going to be the ones you think more what Mark has got here, which is different to what he's
01:02:09 ◼ ► now it's the kind of the nailing down of 18.4 as the thing for when we can expect these.
01:02:21 ◼ ► a consideration that maybe it would be before 18 launched or, you know, at some point this
01:02:26 ◼ ► year, but that doesn't seem possible. Yeah. I appreciate the detail here, but it's, it's
01:02:31 ◼ ► not anything that it's exactly what I was expecting, which is I remember after WWDC just
01:02:58 ◼ ► to say, yes, we're on it, but it's going to take time and it's going to be a real challenge.
01:03:02 ◼ ► I mean, I know I've talked about it before. I know you talked about with Federico, like
01:03:06 ◼ ► it, iOS release day in the fall is not going to be like it was even as Apple's been pulling
01:03:25 ◼ ► winter and the spring, this is going to be a lot of that. This is going to be like huge
01:03:34 ◼ ► like, I think it's a good thing to have a whole cycle year long cycle instead of putting
01:03:38 ◼ ► everything in the one edition, but here it's going to be really, it's going to be a challenge,
01:03:43 ◼ ► right? Because we're really not, they're not shipping their whole OS in the fall. They're
01:03:47 ◼ ► shipping a first version and then adding on with the second version and the third version
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01:06:21 ◼ ► So Summer of Fun is what we're in right now. Summer of Fun! Summer of Fun! And it's where
01:06:32 ◼ ► I would say this summer so far, tough summer. Would you say it's a cruel summer? Cruel summer.
01:06:37 ◼ ► I would say it's a cruel summer. Alright. I think right now it's hard. Like being excited
01:06:45 ◼ ► about technology is a little bit tougher right now because there's so many things to drag.
01:06:56 ◼ ► and Apple, I would prefer that not to happen. I find it interesting because it's happened,
01:07:04 ◼ ► but my choice would be that didn't happen. I like covering these things on the show because
01:07:15 ◼ ► how it shifts, I want to cover it. This is the same of Apple intelligence, right? Where
01:07:23 ◼ ► wouldn't have done that, but if they're going to do it, I want to talk about it because
01:07:30 ◼ ► I just think right now all of these things that are happening makes covering technology
01:07:37 ◼ ► just more tiring. Whether it's us having to understand things to talk about them, whether
01:07:50 ◼ ► feedback from listeners, which understandably a lot of the time is not really directed at
01:08:02 ◼ ► was putting the document together today and I was actually feeling a little bit of this,
01:08:14 ◼ ► stay excited and enthusiastic about technology at times where news is low or where it drags
01:08:37 ◼ ► - Yeah, I mean, none of us, I think, and neither of us for sure, got into this because what
01:08:46 ◼ ► we really wanted to do was talk about AI potentially putting people out of work, potentially being
01:08:58 ◼ ► trained on people's work without their permission, which is how it's basically gone, to talk
01:09:04 ◼ ► about government regulation. If I could encapsulate it, I would say, "As a kid, I loved computers.
01:09:16 ◼ ► When we got the newspaper, the last section I would ever choose to read was the business
01:09:22 ◼ ► section." I think that's sort of what I'm getting at, is I have an enthusiasm for technology.
01:09:31 ◼ ► I don't have the enthusiasm. Put it this way, the enthusiasm does not stem from a lot of
01:09:38 ◼ ► the places where we end up having to talk about it. That's not where my initial enthusiasm
01:09:45 ◼ ► came from. As a kid, I wasn't like, "Oh boy, I can't wait to grow up and think about government
01:09:49 ◼ ► regulation of technology companies and legislation and lawsuits and tech companies that might
01:09:56 ◼ ► be out of control and ripping people off and potentially leading to the loss of lots of
01:10:17 ◼ ► charts and we talk about it and it's fun and all that. Every time we do Apple quarterly
01:10:21 ◼ ► earnings, August 1st, by the way, is the date this quarter, so get ready. It'll be just
01:10:27 ◼ ► in time for me to be back for my trip to cover that. Every time I do that, it's money and
01:10:38 ◼ ► I didn't even read and here I am in it. It's been part of my profession. Part of my profession
01:10:50 ◼ ► something that I have fundamental enthusiasm for, they aren't. The stuff that keeps the
01:10:56 ◼ ► pilot light lit, that keeps the flame burning, is that there are so many different ways that
01:11:03 ◼ ► technology impacts my life and other people's life in a fun way. That could be as simple
01:11:24 ◼ ► a younger sibling, which is exactly the dynamic that my kids had. Then I can just drag and
01:11:31 ◼ ► drop out of that to my mom who wants to see pictures of the baby, other side of the family,
01:11:36 ◼ ► so not related, but she wants to see because who doesn't want to see pictures of the baby?
01:11:41 ◼ ► I think about stuff like that. I think about having fun on the 4th of July, doing something
01:11:46 ◼ ► as dumb as updating my JavaScript widget so that when my phone is in the kitchen in standby,
01:11:55 ◼ ► it has the right temperature on it and getting excited about talking to you about that weather
01:12:00 ◼ ► station. There's lots of cool stuff in terms of customizing what you do and amazing that
01:12:15 ◼ ► It still feels like we live in an amazing time with all this amazing capability. I can't
01:12:30 ◼ ► science fiction and let me tell you, science fiction is not generally PR for the tech industry.
01:12:52 ◼ ► way that I think tech companies and the social and political ramifications of technology
01:13:15 ◼ ► that is getting me down, I try to also think about the stuff that is positive because I
01:13:26 ◼ ► Yeah, it's not a million miles away from where I am too. I think I care a little bit more about the business side of technology than you do, but it isn't where my love comes from.
01:13:49 ◼ ► It kind of always has been and even though I use the same technology to do lots of things,
01:13:54 ◼ ► I also like to play with the technology. Over the last five years or so, I've been finding
01:14:04 ◼ ► new ways of doing that too. If it comes from learning and building keyboards and learning
01:14:11 ◼ ► some of the electronics that go into that. Recently, I've been getting a bit more interested
01:14:23 ◼ ► get emulators running on them and things like that and understanding what that might lead
01:14:32 ◼ ► because I love the technology, but it's always similar to like, "Oh, I want to try this new
01:14:38 ◼ ► app or I want to be on this beta to see what this is about." The problem I think is that
01:14:49 ◼ ► science fiction of it all and it just means that the toys become... There are more health
01:14:59 ◼ ► warning with toys, right? We have to consider that stuff more and because where we are in
01:15:27 ◼ ► that we do. I just think right now, it's just particularly difficult. I'm finding it particularly
01:15:32 ◼ ► difficult right now, right? Where I'm wading into these huge topics about what AI is, whether
01:15:41 ◼ ► I like it or not, you know? And I find it interesting to talk about, but it's also just
01:15:47 ◼ ► very emotionally draining in a way that technology usually is exciting for me, right? My emotions
01:16:07 ◼ ► Yeah, it's hard when you've got a hot button issue that is an issue that you need to talk
01:16:11 ◼ ► about because, you know, a really hot button issue, something like AI. The problem is that
01:16:18 ◼ ► talking about it engenders so much feeling from people on all sides of the issue. There's
01:16:27 ◼ ► more than two sides with AI. And it can get really difficult really fast. And having difficult
01:16:36 ◼ ► conversations is not bad. In fact, for podcasting, I think it can be very good. But having difficult
01:16:44 ◼ ► conversations, good, healthy. Do they lead to good vibes? Maybe not. Sometimes you want
01:16:52 ◼ ► good vibes and that's just life, right? Sometimes, and if talking about technology is a place
01:16:58 ◼ ► that maybe gives you good vibes, having the other difficult kinds of talks about technology
01:17:03 ◼ ► are not giving you those good vibes necessarily. And it's a natural reaction. You and I have
01:17:10 ◼ ► had, if you go back a few years, we have had topics where we've talked on Sunday and said,
01:17:17 ◼ ► basically, I guess we got to talk about it. And we do. And often those are good conversations
01:17:27 ◼ ► that. And we get feedback later saying that was a really good conversation. And it's true
01:17:33 ◼ ► and I can even be proud of how that conversation went. But at the same time, on Sunday, we
01:17:44 ◼ ► as we're doing it, I feel unpleasant. I feel like, oh, I don't love talking about this,
01:18:14 ◼ ► we talked about had that weight on it, I wouldn't want to do podcasts anymore. I just wouldn't
01:18:20 ◼ ► want to do it. Let me tell you, there was a podcast called download that we, that Stephen
01:18:33 ◼ ► ended up happening was that it became the all because of when we were doing it, it became
01:18:39 ◼ ► the weekly, all of the terrible ways that Facebook is ruining humanity podcast, essentially.
01:18:52 ◼ ► And you know what happened to download is we stopped doing it because it was so unpleasant
01:19:03 ◼ ► people did love called the fuzzy puppy update that we did at the end of that podcast, literally
01:19:15 ◼ ► ourselves up when we were done. I'm like, man, I just can't, there's serious stuff that
01:19:20 ◼ ► we have to talk about. But like, if everything was like that, this is not what I got into
01:19:24 ◼ ► this to do. It would just be, I, I, I would try to find something else to do with my life.
01:19:39 ◼ ► these topics right now. You do. And that might be too many for one person. Yeah. Like usually
01:19:55 ◼ ► even now, like what we're doing right now, I'm still having these conversations in very
01:20:12 ◼ ► is a, this is the cool summer that we're in, I suppose. And it's just a case of like pushing
01:20:17 ◼ ► through it. But then when I hear things like spring of 2025, I'm like, Jesus, please just
01:20:23 ◼ ► launch it. So I don't have to keep speculating about the launching of the, you know what
01:20:27 ◼ ► I mean? Just get it out there. Then we can understand it, deal with it and move on. Like
01:20:32 ◼ ► it's it, it's like the, the not knowing is the, the part that's frustrating for me right
01:20:40 ◼ ► now. Maybe I want to recommend to people who haven't heard it last week's episode of connected
01:20:45 ◼ ► episode 509. It's just you and Federico Federico has lots of thoughts about AI, but what I
01:20:53 ◼ ► fun. Let's just say it. It's also not a fun, not fun when one of your friends is extremely
01:20:59 ◼ ► passionate about an issue and you don't entirely agree with them, right? I don't, I don't entirely
01:21:05 ◼ ► disagree with him either, but my take on it is not quite his and that can be awkward, right?
01:21:12 ◼ ► That can be awkward and difficult. I thought you did a good job in that episode of saying,
01:21:18 ◼ ► know, I see where you're coming from. I don't entirely agree or disagree with it. But what
01:21:22 ◼ ► I, what I liked about that episode is he got to elaborate very clearly some of his concerns
01:21:48 ◼ ► about a concern about how AI is used and is going to be used and how it is in Federico's
01:22:06 ◼ ► that is fundamentally dehumanizing. And it's a, I mean, it's a big issue and it's complicated.
01:22:23 ◼ ► agree with, because it was really good to think about it. Was it summer fun, good vibes?
01:22:29 ◼ ► No sir, it was not, but I really liked it and I appreciated all of it while I was, this
01:22:35 ◼ ► is a callback to, uh, to our follow-up, uh, while I was power washing my outdoor table.
01:22:42 ◼ ► That was, I was thinking deep thoughts about AI with Federico Fattucci while also power
01:22:59 ◼ ► do is to entertain people, right? Like that is ostensibly what I do. It can be, I think
01:23:22 ◼ ► produce something that I think is entertaining, like emotionally harder when it's about
01:23:27 ◼ ► such a difficult topic. I find it way easier to crack jokes, right? With my friends and
01:23:49 ◼ ► entirely unmoored from anything and is just in jokes and wackiness and all of that. Like
01:24:03 ◼ ► also wouldn't want it to be entirely weightless all the time, right? Like the world is mixed
01:24:16 ◼ ► and good to talk about it, is still difficult and it doesn't spark the kind of joy that
01:24:31 ◼ ► really go anywhere other than the fact of just like lifting the lid of my brain a little
01:24:35 ◼ ► bit and letting people look inside. Like this is kind of where I am right now. And it's
01:24:40 ◼ ► interesting. I am very aware of the fact that I am running on fumes at the moment because
01:24:56 ◼ ► a little raw at the moment, which might be why I'm feeling this way today. So thank you
01:25:08 ◼ ► Let's finish out with some Ask Upgrade today. Kit writes in and says, "I have the newest
01:25:18 ◼ ► I don't recall ever replacing an Apple product within the same generation though. Have either
01:25:29 ◼ ► I just wanted to start off by saying that I feel for Kit and I think that Apple's doing
01:25:33 ◼ ► the iPad mini an injustice. That product should be given more love. It's a fantastic form
01:25:48 ◼ ► Battery replacement, then you can hand it down and then you can buy yourself a new iPad
01:25:51 ◼ ► mini. But like at this point in its life cycle, oh, a battery replacement is going to be cheaper
01:26:10 ◼ ► AirPods within the same generation. And that is either because the batteries are so gone,
01:26:16 ◼ ► but like with that product, the battery replacement cost isn't really worth it compared to replacing
01:26:22 ◼ ► them. And I think Apple actually just replaces them if you need to replace the batteries
01:26:26 ◼ ► anyway. You usually get new ones. So I've done it with both sets of AirPods Pro because
01:26:36 ◼ ► times. If you do get the quote unquote the same product, it might be slightly different.
01:26:41 ◼ ► Like Qi charging case or USB-C check case and Vision Pro features or whatever, but where
01:26:52 ◼ ► think that is partly because we try and if we're replacing something, it's usually because
01:26:59 ◼ ► there's something new, right? And we're replacing for the new thing way more frequently than
01:27:07 ◼ ► Yeah, I think we're unusual in that way. I do also do a lot of hand-me-downs. So again,
01:27:24 ◼ ► case and use that as an opportunity to push my AirPods down to Jamie, I think. So yeah,
01:27:34 ◼ ► there's some of that, but not really because we're primarily, you know, because this is
01:27:43 ◼ ► And Joao asks, how do you explain to non-tech people, especially family, that your iPhone
01:27:49 ◼ ► does not listen to you to show ads? I can never get them to believe me. I think cross-site
01:27:54 ◼ ► tracking is so hard to understand and the conspiracy theory is more attractive. I wonder
01:28:00 ◼ ► if there had been a conversation around the family dinner table for you, the last couple
01:28:05 ◼ ► of weeks. It's interesting. This is funny to me, right? Like this getting this question
01:28:12 ◼ ► was actually a good example of this phenomenon. Two days ago, me and Idina were having a conversation
01:28:29 ◼ ► on here personally. I think the algorithms are so good that they can often show you things
01:28:52 ◼ ► if you recall something, then you can jump to like, "Oh, I was just thinking about that"
01:28:57 ◼ ► or "I was just talking about that." But you don't, for the things that you weren't thinking
01:29:01 ◼ ► about go, "I was never thinking about that." You only can pay attention to the patterns.
01:29:08 ◼ ► I was happy to see your response because it's mine too. I don't think you can convince them
01:29:19 ◼ ► easy for people to make connections like that. What I will say is if you want to talk about
01:29:22 ◼ ► it technically, you're like, "Oh yeah, but if you say the name, then the voice assistant,
01:29:34 ◼ ► audio or not. The way those wake words work is that the microphone on the device, there's
01:29:54 ◼ ► word. Apple actually got in a lot of trouble where it turned out that some of their activations,
01:30:01 ◼ ► the audio was being recorded and was available in data centers, and now you have the option
01:30:05 ◼ ► to say no to that. I feel like, again, it's impossible because it's a conspiracy theory
01:30:20 ◼ ► Yeah, of all the things, it's just the ads. Of all the things that you could do with that
01:30:25 ◼ ► information, this is actually a pretty harmless one. There are way worse things you could
01:30:33 ◼ ► would tell you as somebody who's watched stories about Apple over the years, that if this was
01:30:39 ◼ ► happening we would all know about it, right? But we don't. In fact, Apple is like a war
01:30:52 ◼ ► but if they want to believe that their phone is listening to them, I guess you just got
01:31:01 ◼ ► I've never listened to the podcast Reply All, but I remember they did an episode on this
01:31:06 ◼ ► subject that I saw lots of people very excited about. So I'll put a link in the show notes
01:31:10 ◼ ► to that. Maybe this will help them. It's called "Is Facebook spying on you?" is the episode.
01:31:15 ◼ ► And they tried to investigate this exact phenomenon. I'm sure that they probably end up in a scenario
01:31:26 ◼ ► isn't happening. I mean, the other thing, if your concern is that your iPhone is listening
01:31:32 ◼ ► to you, even if it is, that date is never finding its way to Facebook. That's the problem
01:31:39 ◼ ► here, right? For us, it's what we know, we're too close to the metal. They're never giving
01:31:57 ◼ ► Maybe you could shift the conspiracy a little bit. Only Apple could even be listening and
01:32:22 ◼ ► search engines, right? Which is so easy to then just be like, "Well, maybe they're just
01:32:26 ◼ ► giving this data to Google." This is the problem with this stuff is there is a, I think, sometimes
01:32:34 ◼ ► in a lot of ways, wise mistrust about these large companies, but it then ends up sometimes
01:32:39 ◼ ► going a little bit too far. This one, it just doesn't make sense for these businesses to
01:32:45 ◼ ► do this because of the amount of information they would have to be sharing. And also there's
01:32:50 ◼ ► a thing of like, "Nobody cares about you that much." Right? Someone's listening to your
01:33:05 ◼ ► folding chair on Amazon, all your ads then suddenly are like, "Hey, folding chair enthusiast,
01:33:14 ◼ ► I see happen a lot. And I think this is one that trips people up, right? A lot say like
01:33:19 ◼ ► Instagram or whatever. They are aware, depending on how you have stuff set up, of devices on
01:33:32 ◼ ► could have had a conversation with your partner and your partner went and looked something
01:33:35 ◼ ► up. Then you get ads for the thing you were talking about, right? Like this is one where
01:33:40 ◼ ► I think that's one of the things that's happening that trips people up. Where they're like,
01:34:00 ◼ ► I find this to be somewhat of a fascinating thing, especially having conversations with
01:34:08 ◼ ► because you end up being the one where people are like, "Why is my phone listening to me?"
01:34:12 ◼ ► And it's like, "I can't help you. I'm afraid." But yo Av, I hope that helped. If you would
01:34:18 ◼ ► like to send in your questions for a future episode of the show or send us any feedback
01:34:22 ◼ ► or follow up, just go to upgradefeedback.com. If you want to check Jason's writing out,
01:34:29 ◼ ► go to sixcolors.com. You can hear his podcast on the incomparable.com and here on RelayFM
01:34:34 ◼ ► where you can hear me too and check out my work at cortexbrown.com. You can find us online.
01:34:50 ◼ ► you to our members who support us on Upgrade Plus. Go to getupgradeplus.com and you can