ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I have found a great use for the Vision Pro.

00:00:04 ◼   ► - This is gonna be good.

00:00:06 ◼   ► I don't think I even knew you had yours back,

00:00:07 ◼   ► or do you not?

00:00:09 ◼   ► - I have, I've had it back.

00:00:10 ◼   ► It has been in its little marshmallow pod for, you know,

00:00:13 ◼   ► a month or two at least, since the last time I used it.

00:00:17 ◼   ► - I thought you had loaned it to somebody, that's why.

00:00:18 ◼   ► - I did, yeah, I loaned it to a friend for like,

00:00:20 ◼   ► two or three weeks earlier in the spring.

00:00:22 ◼   ► - I gotcha.

00:00:23 ◼   ► - But, you know, I've had it back now for a while.

00:00:25 ◼   ► It took me a while to like, you know,

00:00:26 ◼   ► actually motivate myself to, you know,

00:00:28 ◼   ► actually reset it back up as me, and you know,

00:00:31 ◼   ► charge it, update, and all that stuff.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Because like, you know, every time that you put it on,

00:00:36 ◼   ► and it's either discharged, or it needs a software update,

00:00:39 ◼   ► that's an excuse for you, or that's kind of a requirement

00:00:41 ◼   ► for you to like, all right, let me take it off,

00:00:42 ◼   ► I'll let it do its thing, and I'll come back to it.

00:00:45 ◼   ► And I never come back to it.

00:00:47 ◼   ► This last few days, I have been strictly constrained

00:00:52 ◼   ► to lying on the couch, because I got a vasectomy.

00:00:57 ◼   ► It doesn't really matter for everyone to know this,

00:00:59 ◼   ► but it's minor surgery, and more men in this country

00:01:01 ◼   ► should do our part for birth control,

00:01:04 ◼   ► since especially women's options are being needlessly

00:01:08 ◼   ► and horribly limited.

00:01:09 ◼   ► So anyway, it's no big deal.

00:01:11 ◼   ► I've been laid up on the couch for a few days,

00:01:13 ◼   ► and I was told, you know, don't do anything.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Like, don't sit at a desk, don't walk around,

00:01:17 ◼   ► like, don't lift heavy things, don't do anything.

00:01:20 ◼   ► And honestly, really, men out there,

00:01:22 ◼   ► it really isn't that bad.

00:01:23 ◼   ► If you're on the fence, just do it.

00:01:25 ◼   ► I was scared, and it was fine, and it's totally fine.

00:01:28 ◼   ► Anyway, I had to lay on the couch for a couple days,

00:01:31 ◼   ► and I am really bad at doing nothing.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Like, I just wanna get up and do, I wanna work,

00:01:36 ◼   ► I wanna do stuff around the house, I wanna walk the dog,

00:01:38 ◼   ► like, there's a million things I wanna be doing.

00:01:40 ◼   ► But I had to lay on the couch.

00:01:41 ◼   ► And when you're lying on the couch,

00:01:43 ◼   ► it's really not that comfortable to use a laptop,

00:01:46 ◼   ► you know, when you're really lying down.

00:01:47 ◼   ► It's also, you know, in a situation like this,

00:01:49 ◼   ► you might not necessarily want to be putting things

00:01:52 ◼   ► in your lap.

00:01:54 ◼   ► - Like some frozen peas.

00:01:55 ◼   ► - Right, yes, and by the way, those work great.

00:01:58 ◼   ► - Noted.

00:02:00 ◼   ► - Way better than the special Amazon underwear

00:02:02 ◼   ► with the ice packs.

00:02:03 ◼   ► I can say a bag of frozen peas works better than that.

00:02:06 ◼   ► - Noted.

00:02:07 ◼   ► - It'll just save you 40 bucks.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:02:10 ◼   ► - That is true, because I'm supposed to say

00:02:11 ◼   ► I will be following in your footsteps

00:02:13 ◼   ► at the end of the summer.

00:02:14 ◼   ► So this is good advice.

00:02:16 ◼   ► - All right, well, after the apocalypse,

00:02:17 ◼   ► I guess it'll be up to me to repopulate the planet.

00:02:19 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:02:21 ◼   ► It'll be all little Syracuse's, it'll be great.

00:02:23 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh.

00:02:25 ◼   ► - Anyway, this was the perfect use case for the Vision Pro.

00:02:29 ◼   ► I got to lie down on the couch,

00:02:31 ◼   ► and I didn't want to,

00:02:32 ◼   ► if you're lying down on the couch,

00:02:34 ◼   ► in most living room arrangements, including mine,

00:02:36 ◼   ► you can't look directly at the TV.

00:02:38 ◼   ► The TV is off to your side.

00:02:40 ◼   ► - Oh, contraire.

00:02:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think I have that moved down,

00:02:43 ◼   ► but anyway, go on.

00:02:44 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, 'cause you're more diagonal.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Anyway, we have a more standard linear couch to TV layout.

00:02:52 ◼   ► - Easy places to put your speakers.

00:02:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I know how it is.

00:02:54 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:02:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:56 ◼   ► Anyway, so I've been watching stuff in the Vision Pro

00:03:01 ◼   ► and kind of messing around with it

00:03:04 ◼   ► as basically lying on the couch,

00:03:05 ◼   ► being able to look straight up

00:03:07 ◼   ► and have a virtual screen projected

00:03:09 ◼   ► straight up above my head.

00:03:11 ◼   ► I've been watching WBC session videos mostly

00:03:13 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:03:14 ◼   ► But a long time ago, when Federico Vatici

00:03:18 ◼   ► had to spend a lot of time in hospital beds for a while.

00:03:21 ◼   ► That's when he fell in love with the iPad

00:03:23 ◼   ► because the iPad was easy to use in a hospital bed.

00:03:26 ◼   ► And that was a huge computing win for him.

00:03:30 ◼   ► I can say with confidence that the Vision Pro

00:03:34 ◼   ► is not necessarily as big of a win

00:03:37 ◼   ► for general purpose computing as the iPad is

00:03:41 ◼   ► in that context.

00:03:42 ◼   ► But it does serve an interesting role

00:03:44 ◼   ► in that you can compute while you are lying down

00:03:47 ◼   ► and you can do so while holding nothing in your hands

00:03:51 ◼   ► and barely even moving your hands.

00:03:53 ◼   ► And so there are decent numbers of cases

00:03:55 ◼   ► where that can be very useful to people.

00:03:57 ◼   ► It is a lot harder to get a lot of things done

00:04:00 ◼   ► in the Vision Pro, to be honest.

00:04:01 ◼   ► And there's a lot less software

00:04:02 ◼   ► and a lot of totally missing apps

00:04:04 ◼   ► that you just have no way to run in there.

00:04:05 ◼   ► - Like the iPad.

00:04:07 ◼   ► - But man, it actually was like,

00:04:09 ◼   ► I actually really came to appreciate it

00:04:12 ◼   ► during these two days for that purpose.

00:04:14 ◼   ► - I thought you were gonna say that the person

00:04:16 ◼   ► who did the procedure used the Vision Pro to do it.

00:04:18 ◼   ► - Oh wow. - No.

00:04:19 ◼   ► - I sure would not have appreciated that, no.

00:04:21 ◼   ► - Maybe they did, you don't know.

00:04:23 ◼   ► - That's true, I have no idea.

00:04:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:04:26 ◼   ► - Well I'm glad that it took a little minor surgery

00:04:29 ◼   ► to get you on the Vision Pro bandwagon.

00:04:31 ◼   ► Welcome, we're happy to have you.

00:04:33 ◼   ► So all kidding aside, you said you were watching

00:04:38 ◼   ► some developer videos.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Is there anything else that,

00:04:40 ◼   ► or any moments that you've had that you're like,

00:04:42 ◼   ► hey, this is actually pretty great.

00:04:45 ◼   ► - I also did watch the talk show live in there.

00:04:47 ◼   ► It was actually really cool to see it that way.

00:04:50 ◼   ► It worked very well, in fact, Casey,

00:04:52 ◼   ► you can even hear you talking at the very, very end,

00:04:55 ◼   ► like when the lights come, everything's up,

00:04:57 ◼   ► and the lights come up, 'cause you were apparently

00:04:58 ◼   ► sitting right next to the camera rig.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Right at the end, you hear Casey say something

00:05:01 ◼   ► right before the audio cuts out.

00:05:03 ◼   ► - I was sitting right by the camera rig,

00:05:05 ◼   ► 'cause it blocked my view of the stage.

00:05:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, well. - It's very upsetting,

00:05:07 ◼   ► but I survived.

00:05:08 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I was like,

00:05:09 ◼   ► if you wanted to see the show from the perspective

00:05:11 ◼   ► of where I sit, that's the 3D thing that they put up.

00:05:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I'll tell you what,

00:05:16 ◼   ► so the talk show live, so our friend Adam Lisagor

00:05:19 ◼   ► at Sandwich, and this other company,

00:05:21 ◼   ► I forget the name of it, Spatial something.

00:05:23 ◼   ► - Something Gen maybe?

00:05:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's it.

00:05:26 ◼   ► They did a live, so Sandwich has a new app called Theater.

00:05:30 ◼   ► It's kind of like the big screen equivalent

00:05:32 ◼   ► of their television app, where you can watch

00:05:34 ◼   ► arbitrary videos inside cool settings,

00:05:38 ◼   ► or in the case of television, inside retro TV sets

00:05:40 ◼   ► in the Vision Pro.

00:05:41 ◼   ► So they made this theater app,

00:05:42 ◼   ► and they did a live broadcast of John Gruber's

00:05:45 ◼   ► the talk show live at WWDC event in stereo video,

00:05:49 ◼   ► so in 3D video.

00:05:51 ◼   ► It's really cool, and first of all,

00:05:54 ◼   ► it's an interesting and remarkable technical achievement

00:05:57 ◼   ► that they were able to do this live event this way

00:05:59 ◼   ► with what appear to be two very small companies,

00:06:02 ◼   ► relatively speaking, while Apple has currently broadcast

00:06:05 ◼   ► zero live events to the Vision Pro.

00:06:08 ◼   ► So as far as I can tell, there have been no other

00:06:11 ◼   ► live events broadcast to the Vision Pro,

00:06:14 ◼   ► and it was really compelling.

00:06:15 ◼   ► And I don't wanna speak for them,

00:06:18 ◼   ► but from what I heard, it sounded like the engagement

00:06:21 ◼   ► numbers were pretty good to my ears.

00:06:23 ◼   ► There really is a cool potential for the Vision Pro

00:06:28 ◼   ► for spatial video broadcast of live, cool events,

00:06:33 ◼   ► and I just hope someone else ever does it,

00:06:36 ◼   ► because that really is a really cool idea.

00:06:41 ◼   ► It worked very, very well.

00:06:44 ◼   ► It turned out great, and I would love to watch

00:06:47 ◼   ► other concerts or productions or other live events this way.

00:06:52 ◼   ► I obviously support people, I know,

00:06:53 ◼   ► we're dying to watch sports this way too.

00:06:55 ◼   ► There is so much potential there,

00:06:57 ◼   ► and so I hope that potential is realized,

00:07:00 ◼   ► because obviously if this one, or these two small companies

00:07:05 ◼   ► who get together and do this, obviously there's nothing

00:07:07 ◼   ► stopping Apple or major sports leagues

00:07:10 ◼   ► or major content providers from doing this themselves,

00:07:13 ◼   ► there's still a long way to go in a lot of the technical

00:07:15 ◼   ► angles of it, but this was literally just like,

00:07:17 ◼   ► this was a fixed camera at a fixed location,

00:07:20 ◼   ► it was like you were sitting in the front row,

00:07:21 ◼   ► and you just saw a fixed viewport, and it was 3D,

00:07:25 ◼   ► and it was, yeah, a little bit low resolution

00:07:27 ◼   ► and a little bit low frame rate, but it looked great,

00:07:29 ◼   ► it looked like you were there.

00:07:30 ◼   ► It was a really cool thing to see,

00:07:31 ◼   ► and so I really hope we see more of this

00:07:33 ◼   ► coming to the Vision Pro.

00:07:34 ◼   ► - Well that's really awesome.

00:07:35 ◼   ► I do plan to at least take a quick watch of it.

00:07:39 ◼   ► John and a few of our friends and I

00:07:42 ◼   ► were all sitting front row because Gruber was kind enough

00:07:44 ◼   ► to leave some reserved seats and whatnot,

00:07:46 ◼   ► and so the view of the camera is basically

00:07:49 ◼   ► what Syracuse and I had seen, we were on either side of it,

00:07:52 ◼   ► but basically what we had seen for the show,

00:07:55 ◼   ► and it was a good show.

00:07:56 ◼   ► It ran long, I was surprised that the Apple execs

00:08:00 ◼   ► were willing to give Gruber two hours.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Not that he's undeserving, just that I feel like typically

00:08:05 ◼   ► they're getting antsy at like 90 minutes,

00:08:07 ◼   ► but it was a full two hours, and it was good.

00:08:09 ◼   ► So yeah, you should definitely check it out.

00:08:10 ◼   ► And they have a rendered or mastered in 4K YouTube version,

00:08:14 ◼   ► like a standard 2D YouTube version,

00:08:16 ◼   ► which I also have not watched yet,

00:08:18 ◼   ► or I mean since I was there, but nevertheless,

00:08:21 ◼   ► if you don't have a Vision Pro,

00:08:22 ◼   ► don't feel like you're entirely missing out,

00:08:23 ◼   ► you can just watch it on YouTube.

00:08:25 ◼   ► - It's also a podcast, there was a podcast version today

00:08:27 ◼   ► as well, and content-wise, I gotta say,

00:08:29 ◼   ► that I really enjoyed this live talk show.

00:08:32 ◼   ► You know, they were interviewing John Giannandrea,

00:08:34 ◼   ► Jaws, and Federighi, and I think it went great

00:08:37 ◼   ► for all three of them, and I think John Gruber

00:08:40 ◼   ► had a really good balance of like questions

00:08:43 ◼   ► to kind of let them flex and show off

00:08:45 ◼   ► and tell us a few more cool details,

00:08:47 ◼   ► but also some hard questions that kind of, you know,

00:08:49 ◼   ► had them have to answer for certain things,

00:08:51 ◼   ► or have to explain certain things.

00:08:52 ◼   ► It was a really good balance of that,

00:08:54 ◼   ► and so I really enjoyed it, highly recommended

00:08:56 ◼   ► for anybody listening to this show.

00:08:58 ◼   ► - You know what else was highly recommended?

00:09:00 ◼   ► Our interview, which we were lucky enough to do,

00:09:03 ◼   ► this is, we're recording this on Friday.

00:09:05 ◼   ► It was Tuesday that we sat down with Holly Borla

00:09:08 ◼   ► and Ben Cohen, both Swift compiler engineers

00:09:12 ◼   ► are in that vicinity. - Core team.

00:09:14 ◼   ► - Yes, with core team, thank you.

00:09:16 ◼   ► It was, I wasn't nervous going into it,

00:09:21 ◼   ► but you know, you don't know how it's gonna go,

00:09:22 ◼   ► and having five people on one show can be challenging,

00:09:26 ◼   ► and I thought that Holly and Ben did a phenomenal job.

00:09:30 ◼   ► I thought it was really great.

00:09:32 ◼   ► They are very willing to get in the weeds,

00:09:35 ◼   ► but they don't jump immediately there.

00:09:37 ◼   ► You know, they're extraordinarily good communicators,

00:09:39 ◼   ► both of them.

00:09:40 ◼   ► It was really, really great, and I had an absolute blast.

00:09:42 ◼   ► I don't wanna speak for you two,

00:09:43 ◼   ► well, maybe I do a little bit,

00:09:44 ◼   ► but I could've gone easily another hour,

00:09:47 ◼   ► probably another two if we had the space and the time,

00:09:49 ◼   ► and I don't know if Holly and Ben would've liked that,

00:09:52 ◼   ► but I would've, it was a lot of fun,

00:09:54 ◼   ► and it was really, really great,

00:09:55 ◼   ► and that is not behind any sort of paywall

00:09:58 ◼   ► or anything like that.

00:09:59 ◼   ► It's just a little bonus episode

00:10:00 ◼   ► that we released a couple of days ago now.

00:10:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's primarily for programmers.

00:10:04 ◼   ► If you're a programmer, we do go heavy into programery stuff.

00:10:08 ◼   ► It helps if you know about Swift, Apple's ecosystem.

00:10:10 ◼   ► We went very deep because we,

00:10:12 ◼   ► to take advantage of the people we got to speak to,

00:10:15 ◼   ► that was the best use of our time,

00:10:16 ◼   ► because if you're talking to experts,

00:10:17 ◼   ► you don't ask them just the basic stuff,

00:10:20 ◼   ► but we have heard from some people who are like,

00:10:21 ◼   ► "Look, I don't develop for Apple's platforms,

00:10:24 ◼   ► "or maybe I'm not even a programmer,"

00:10:25 ◼   ► and they still found it interesting

00:10:26 ◼   ► to get a feel for things,

00:10:27 ◼   ► 'cause we did cover stuff at a higher level

00:10:29 ◼   ► as well as getting way down to the nitty-gritty,

00:10:32 ◼   ► so please check it out.

00:10:33 ◼   ► - Yep, yep, it was really, really fun,

00:10:34 ◼   ► and I think you would enjoy it.

00:10:37 ◼   ► All right, this is the customary WWDC, or post-WWDC,

00:10:42 ◼   ► all follow-up, all the time episode,

00:10:44 ◼   ► so unless we somehow absolutely fly through this,

00:10:48 ◼   ► I'm just setting the stage now, this is all follow-up,

00:10:49 ◼   ► but that's okay, we gotta clear the decks

00:10:51 ◼   ► so we can get back to regularly scheduled programming

00:10:54 ◼   ► in the next episode.

00:10:55 ◼   ► So Microsoft has had a bit of a rollercoaster

00:10:58 ◼   ► over the last few days, or last couple of weeks, really,

00:11:01 ◼   ► so on June 7th, there's a Verge article,

00:11:04 ◼   ► "Microsoft Changes Recall," which is their thing

00:11:07 ◼   ► which records your screen and lets you ask questions

00:11:10 ◼   ► of what you saw where.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Anyways, Microsoft changes recall to be opt-in

00:11:15 ◼   ► and improves the security from The Verge.

00:11:17 ◼   ► - As we predicted, by the way, in the pre-WWDC episode,

00:11:21 ◼   ► that they would have to change it to opt-in,

00:11:23 ◼   ► and we weren't just kidding, it was obvious next move,

00:11:25 ◼   ► and they did it almost immediately

00:11:26 ◼   ► after we released the show.

00:11:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that's the right move.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Microsoft says it's making its new recall an opt-in feature

00:11:33 ◼   ► and addressing various security concerns.

00:11:35 ◼   ► Windows and Devices VP, Pavin Davulri,

00:11:38 ◼   ► Davulri, hopefully that's somewhere close,

00:11:42 ◼   ► said, "If you don't proactively choose to turn it on,

00:11:44 ◼   ► "it will be off by default."

00:11:46 ◼   ► They also said, "We are adding additional layers

00:11:48 ◼   ► "of data protection, including just-in-time decryption

00:11:50 ◼   ► "protected by Windows Hello enhanced sign-in security,

00:11:53 ◼   ► "so recall snapshots will only be decrypted and accessible

00:11:56 ◼   ► "when the user authenticates.

00:11:57 ◼   ► "In addition, we encrypted the search index database."

00:11:59 ◼   ► That was June 7.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Fast forward just barely under a week, it's now June 13.

00:12:05 ◼   ► Microsoft delays recall again, won't debut it

00:12:07 ◼   ► with the new co-pilot plus PCs after all.

00:12:10 ◼   ► Reading this time from Ars Technica,

00:12:12 ◼   ► Microsoft will be delaying its controversial recall feature

00:12:15 ◼   ► again, according to an updated blog post

00:12:16 ◼   ► by Windows and Devices VP, Pavin Davulri.

00:12:20 ◼   ► And when the feature does return,

00:12:21 ◼   ► quote in the coming weeks, quote, Pavin writes,

00:12:24 ◼   ► "It will be as a preview available to PCs

00:12:26 ◼   ► "in the Windows Insider program,

00:12:28 ◼   ► "the same public testing and validation pipeline

00:12:29 ◼   ► "that all the other Windows features usually go through

00:12:32 ◼   ► "before being released to the general public."

00:12:34 ◼   ► That was the 13th, so.

00:12:35 ◼   ► - So it went from a flagship feature to a big controversy

00:12:39 ◼   ► to not being opt-in to not shipping at all,

00:12:42 ◼   ► except as a Windows Insider sort of beta preview.

00:12:45 ◼   ► Really, this has soured the whole co-pilot plus PC launch

00:12:49 ◼   ► for like the Snapdragon ARM processor and everything.

00:12:53 ◼   ► It's just, what should have been such a clean win

00:12:56 ◼   ► for them, hey, we have good laptops now,

00:12:59 ◼   ► a software feature.

00:13:00 ◼   ► And I think actually a software feature

00:13:01 ◼   ► with the potential to be a good software feature

00:13:04 ◼   ► is just done so poorly with, you know,

00:13:07 ◼   ► this is what, it's so important to like,

00:13:09 ◼   ► pick the right defaults, to know your audience,

00:13:11 ◼   ► to know how to frame things.

00:13:12 ◼   ► Like the same basic feature could have been released

00:13:16 ◼   ► without all of this, if it had been implemented better,

00:13:19 ◼   ► if it had been off by default,

00:13:20 ◼   ► if it had been like not present

00:13:22 ◼   ► on the enterprise version of Windows.

00:13:24 ◼   ► Like you have to really know who is able, who wants this,

00:13:27 ◼   ► who's willing to give it a chance

00:13:29 ◼   ► and who absolutely does not want this on their computers.

00:13:32 ◼   ► And Microsoft really blew this one.

00:13:35 ◼   ► - Sure seems like it.

00:13:37 ◼   ► All right, so Intel and AMD's co-pilot plus PCs

00:13:41 ◼   ► won't have the co-pilot AI features at launch.

00:13:44 ◼   ► Whoopsie doopsies.

00:13:45 ◼   ► It's reading from the Verge.

00:13:46 ◼   ► "Microsoft's new Windows AI features

00:13:48 ◼   ► "like AutoSuper Resolution for smoother gaming

00:13:50 ◼   ► "aren't exclusive to Qualcomm.

00:13:51 ◼   ► "Intel's Lunar Lake and AMD's StrixPoint chips

00:13:54 ◼   ► "will have enough AI co-processing performance too.

00:13:57 ◼   ► "But when Intel and AMD's new co-pilot plus PCs

00:13:59 ◼   ► "arrived this fall, no one is promising

00:14:01 ◼   ► "they'll ship with all or even any of the new AI features.

00:14:05 ◼   ► "Each of those laptops will require free software updates

00:14:07 ◼   ► "before they get Microsoft's co-pilot plus AI features

00:14:09 ◼   ► "and those updates won't necessarily even arrive

00:14:11 ◼   ► "before the end of 2024."

00:14:12 ◼   ► Microsoft said, "Intel, Lunar Lake and AMD Strix PCs

00:14:16 ◼   ► "are Windows 11 AI PCs that meet our co-pilot

00:14:19 ◼   ► "plus PC hardware requirements.

00:14:21 ◼   ► "We are partnering closely with Intel and AMD

00:14:22 ◼   ► "to deliver co-pilot plus PC experiences

00:14:24 ◼   ► "through free updates when available."

00:14:27 ◼   ► - I mean, this is like also Qualcomm's having problems.

00:14:30 ◼   ► The ARM, the big coming out party for Windows on ARM

00:14:33 ◼   ► with good laptops is not going well.

00:14:35 ◼   ► And Intel and AMD, as we noted on the pre-WWC episode,

00:14:37 ◼   ► they have their own processors that also qualify for this.

00:14:40 ◼   ► And they're not here to rescue anybody

00:14:42 ◼   ► because Microsoft doesn't have the software features

00:14:43 ◼   ► ready for them yet.

00:14:44 ◼   ► It seems like Microsoft was like, this is gonna be,

00:14:47 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know, this is our chance

00:14:49 ◼   ► to make ARM a thing.

00:14:51 ◼   ► You know, we won't even support the Intel and AMD things,

00:14:53 ◼   ► or maybe it was just poor planning,

00:14:54 ◼   ► but this whole launch, I guess it's just a 2025 thing.

00:14:59 ◼   ► And they're hoping we'll just ignore it until then.

00:15:03 ◼   ► I'm very disappointed.

00:15:04 ◼   ► Obviously, I want Windows to go entirely to ARM.

00:15:06 ◼   ► That seems like it's not happening,

00:15:07 ◼   ► but they can't even get the Intel and AMD

00:15:09 ◼   ► versions of these features out.

00:15:11 ◼   ► - You just want it for the games.

00:15:12 ◼   ► - I do, 100%, I do.

00:15:13 ◼   ► - I mean, I think this shows, though,

00:15:15 ◼   ► like a massive architectural change

00:15:18 ◼   ► in all new processors and all new hardware,

00:15:21 ◼   ► it's a big ordeal.

00:15:22 ◼   ► It shows, yeah, Apple was able to do it,

00:15:24 ◼   ► but it took a ton of work, and that's just one company

00:15:29 ◼   ► who could get aligned behind it.

00:15:32 ◼   ► The PC ecosystem does not work that way at all.

00:15:35 ◼   ► You have, I mean, think about the uphill battle

00:15:37 ◼   ► they have here.

00:15:38 ◼   ► They have an architecture transition

00:15:40 ◼   ► that most of their customers don't want,

00:15:43 ◼   ► that totally screws some of their biggest partners

00:15:46 ◼   ► in Intel and AMD.

00:15:47 ◼   ► Dealing with a company, Qualcomm,

00:15:49 ◼   ► that is certainly not super easy and friendly

00:15:52 ◼   ► to deal with by most metrics that we hear about,

00:15:57 ◼   ► but mainly selling into companies

00:15:59 ◼   ► that kind of don't want this,

00:16:02 ◼   ► selling to users that kind of don't want this

00:16:05 ◼   ► with a bunch of software that's not ready for it.

00:16:08 ◼   ► So yeah, they kind of have a tough environment

00:16:12 ◼   ► to get this through.

00:16:14 ◼   ► They've tried this before.

00:16:15 ◼   ► It didn't work.

00:16:16 ◼   ► Obviously, things are a little bit different now.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Technology's better.

00:16:18 ◼   ► The translation/emulation story is better.

00:16:22 ◼   ► So I think they have a better chance now,

00:16:24 ◼   ► but it's still far from an easy thing.

00:16:26 ◼   ► And what they're doing is trying to convince

00:16:28 ◼   ► a whole bunch of companies and a whole bunch of customers

00:16:31 ◼   ► to take a move that many of them don't want to take.

00:16:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, so the recall thing doesn't help with that,

00:16:35 ◼   ► because that's like just an additional thing to deter you.

00:16:38 ◼   ► You didn't even know this was on the table.

00:16:40 ◼   ► It's a thing that can make you not want it,

00:16:41 ◼   ► but guess what?

00:16:42 ◼   ► We added a thing that's scary and you don't want

00:16:43 ◼   ► to just on top of that.

00:16:44 ◼   ► And the thing is, I don't think they're framing it

00:16:46 ◼   ► as an architecture transition.

00:16:47 ◼   ► It's more like, here's another way that you can run Windows,

00:16:51 ◼   ► and it's complicated by the fact that they keep bringing up

00:16:53 ◼   ► AMD and Intel, and AMD and Intel do have hardware

00:16:55 ◼   ► that competes, which is why it's not a transition.

00:16:58 ◼   ► It says, look, these are new software features in Windows,

00:17:01 ◼   ► and by the way, they're also supported

00:17:02 ◼   ► on a new architecture, and you shouldn't have to know

00:17:04 ◼   ► which is which, but the reason for you to buy an ARM PC

00:17:08 ◼   ► is undercut by Intel and AMD having competitive SOCs,

00:17:12 ◼   ► which they will soon-ish.

00:17:14 ◼   ► And then those SOCs won't have all the features

00:17:16 ◼   ► that you're rolling out in software.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Again, it seems like their role is to, in 2027,

00:17:22 ◼   ► if Microsoft paint a picture of what the PC market

00:17:25 ◼   ► would look like, I guess it's like,

00:17:26 ◼   ► you can buy a Windows PC with AI features,

00:17:29 ◼   ► and it will either have an x86 processor

00:17:31 ◼   ► or an ARM processor, and what is their ideal percentage

00:17:36 ◼   ► of the market?

00:17:36 ◼   ► Is it 50/50, is it 60/40, is it 90/10?

00:17:39 ◼   ► Like, it doesn't seem like they're even trying

00:17:41 ◼   ► to make a transition, because as you noted,

00:17:43 ◼   ► a transition would totally screw over into an AMD,

00:17:46 ◼   ► and they don't wanna do that, but I don't honestly know

00:17:50 ◼   ► what they're trying to do here, but whatever it is,

00:17:52 ◼   ► they're doing it poorly.

00:17:54 ◼   ► - UTM, which is a general purpose emulator,

00:17:56 ◼   ► won't be in the App Store, excuse me.

00:17:59 ◼   ► So this is a post from one of the authors, I guess.

00:18:03 ◼   ► Thomas, after an almost two-month-long review process,

00:18:06 ◼   ► Apple has rejected UTMSE from the iOS App Store,

00:18:09 ◼   ► as well as from notarization for third-party app stores.

00:18:13 ◼   ► Yikes.

00:18:14 ◼   ► Their reasoning is that rule 4.7,

00:18:16 ◼   ► which Apple recently introduced that allows for Delta,

00:18:18 ◼   ► PP, SSPP, and other emulators to be allowed,

00:18:21 ◼   ► does not apply to UTMSE.

00:18:23 ◼   ► The App Store review board determined that, quote,

00:18:25 ◼   ► "PC is not a console," quote, regardless of the fact

00:18:28 ◼   ► that there are retro Windows and DOS games for the PC

00:18:30 ◼   ► that UTMSE can be useful in running.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Additionally, Apple stances that UTMSE is not allowed

00:18:35 ◼   ► on third-party marketplaces either,

00:18:37 ◼   ► because rule 4.7 also applies

00:18:39 ◼   ► to the notarization review guidelines.

00:18:43 ◼   ► So rule 4.7 covers mini apps, minigames, streaming games,

00:18:47 ◼   ► chatbot plugins, and game emulators.

00:18:50 ◼   ► Then there was an update later on from UTM.

00:18:52 ◼   ► Apple's reached out and clarified

00:18:53 ◼   ► that the notarization was rejected under rule 2.5.2,

00:18:56 ◼   ► and that 4.7 is an exception

00:18:58 ◼   ► that only applies to App Store apps,

00:19:00 ◼   ► but which UTMSE does not qualify for.

00:19:02 ◼   ► And then you can see more on Michael Tsai's blog.

00:19:04 ◼   ► Finally, UTM writes,

00:19:06 ◼   ► "We will adhere by Apple's content and policy decision,

00:19:08 ◼   ► because we believe UTMSE,

00:19:10 ◼   ► which does not have just-in-time compilation,

00:19:12 ◼   ► is a sub-parse experience and isn't worth fighting for."

00:19:15 ◼   ► See a blog post that I think,

00:19:18 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure we talked about this in the past,

00:19:19 ◼   ► but about why Dolphin, the, what is that,

00:19:21 ◼   ► a Wii emulator, is that right?

00:19:23 ◼   ► - Yep, GameCube.

00:19:24 ◼   ► - Why it isn't coming to the App Store.

00:19:25 ◼   ► And so UTM continues,

00:19:27 ◼   ► "We do not wish to invest any additional time or effort

00:19:29 ◼   ► trying to get UTMSE in the App Store or third-party stores

00:19:31 ◼   ► unless Apple changes their stance."

00:19:33 ◼   ► I'm not loving this, not loving this at all.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - So this is something, because, like, so what,

00:19:38 ◼   ► Apple rejecting stuff in the App Store, whatever,

00:19:39 ◼   ► like even just, it's weird that they're rejecting

00:19:41 ◼   ► because they allowed Delta,

00:19:42 ◼   ► and this is an emulator that doesn't have a JIT,

00:19:44 ◼   ► so it should fall within the rules,

00:19:45 ◼   ► but it's a PC emulator and PCs aren't consoles.

00:19:48 ◼   ► Remember we talked about the definition

00:19:49 ◼   ► of like retro console games, what do all those words mean?

00:19:52 ◼   ► Apple has now said after two months,

00:19:53 ◼   ► PC is not a console, fine, whatever.

00:19:55 ◼   ► But they also rejected it from the notarization process,

00:19:59 ◼   ► which is an overloaded term in the Apple world,

00:20:01 ◼   ► that they do for things going to third-party App Stores.

00:20:04 ◼   ► So they can't even get this into a third-party App Store.

00:20:08 ◼   ► And Apple's only supposed to reject things

00:20:10 ◼   ► from third-party App Stores for using private APIs

00:20:13 ◼   ► and for security reasons.

00:20:15 ◼   ► They could maybe make an argument

00:20:17 ◼   ► that there's some sort of security issue with this thing

00:20:19 ◼   ► of like, well, it's an emulator,

00:20:20 ◼   ► and like it can download arbitrary,

00:20:23 ◼   ► but like, I don't understand how they're going to defend

00:20:25 ◼   ► this to say, "Oh, remember when we said we're just gonna

00:20:28 ◼   ► "check for private APIs and security?

00:20:29 ◼   ► "Also, we're just gonna make decisions

00:20:31 ◼   ► "like we don't want this emulator in any store,

00:20:32 ◼   ► "it's not even ours."

00:20:34 ◼   ► I don't know why they would do this.

00:20:35 ◼   ► Like, why do they care if a thing that emulates Windows

00:20:38 ◼   ► and DOS games is on a third-party App Store?

00:20:41 ◼   ► - This doesn't make any sense to me,

00:20:42 ◼   ► and maybe there is a completely fair and logical reason,

00:20:45 ◼   ► but I can't put my finger on it if so.

00:20:47 ◼   ► - If there is, I feel like they would have communicated it

00:20:49 ◼   ► to the UTM authors, you know what I mean?

00:20:51 ◼   ► They would have said, "Here's why,"

00:20:52 ◼   ► 'cause like, you know, the virtualization framework

00:20:54 ◼   ► you're using has a security flaw

00:20:56 ◼   ► and it would allow people to root phones or something.

00:20:57 ◼   ► Like, just say that if it's the case, but they haven't.

00:21:00 ◼   ► - Not a great look, not a great look at all.

00:21:02 ◼   ► All right, Apple and Meta could face charges

00:21:04 ◼   ► for violating EU tech rules.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Apple and Meta could soon face charges, I'm sorry,

00:21:08 ◼   ► this is from The Verge, could soon face charges

00:21:10 ◼   ► from the European Commission for Violating

00:21:11 ◼   ► Digital Markets Act, or DMA, rules.

00:21:14 ◼   ► The commission is reported to be targeting Apple

00:21:15 ◼   ► over its steering rules that charge developers

00:21:18 ◼   ► for appointing to third-party purchase options.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Meta's charges will reportedly revolve

00:21:23 ◼   ► around its ad-free subscription for Facebook

00:21:25 ◼   ► and Instagram in the EU.

00:21:26 ◼   ► The commission will be using preliminary findings,

00:21:28 ◼   ► according to Reuters, meaning that the companies

00:21:30 ◼   ► can make changes to try to correct things

00:21:33 ◼   ► before the commission makes a final decision.

00:21:34 ◼   ► Apple is set to be charged first.

00:21:36 ◼   ► Reuters reports, and the Financial Times

00:21:38 ◼   ► says we could see the charges in the coming weeks.

00:21:40 ◼   ► They can charge something like 5% of annual revenue

00:21:43 ◼   ► or something like that, so this is like pretty serious money

00:21:47 ◼   ► if they choose to go that deep in it.

00:21:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is a leak, I mean, we talked about this

00:21:52 ◼   ► right after Apple rolled out its DMA compliance,

00:21:55 ◼   ► and we said the EU is investigating to see

00:21:58 ◼   ► if what Apple did is actually compliant.

00:22:01 ◼   ► And we're coming to the part where we're gonna get

00:22:04 ◼   ► that answer, and it seems like this is a leak

00:22:05 ◼   ► from the EU to say our answer is going to be no,

00:22:08 ◼   ► what Apple did is not compliant.

00:22:10 ◼   ► This doesn't even mention things like rejecting UTM

00:22:12 ◼   ► from third-party app stores, this is just talking about

00:22:15 ◼   ► the steering rules and taking money from developers

00:22:19 ◼   ► for going to third-party purchase pages and stuff like that.

00:22:21 ◼   ► We'll see what the ruling says, they're always kind of

00:22:24 ◼   ► slow to move and a little bit back in time,

00:22:26 ◼   ► like they can't keep up with all the violations

00:22:28 ◼   ► that Apple is doing, but yeah.

00:22:30 ◼   ► That's always the risk with these things is

00:22:33 ◼   ► they make a rule, Apple says they comply,

00:22:35 ◼   ► and then the EU takes its time to say,

00:22:37 ◼   ► but have you really complied, and their ruling is coming,

00:22:40 ◼   ► and it doesn't look good for Apple.

00:22:41 ◼   ► - Say it again like you mean it.

00:22:43 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:22:44 ◼   ► - It's not looking good for Apple, and I mean, I don't know,

00:22:48 ◼   ► I have such mixed feelings about this,

00:22:50 ◼   ► and depending on when you catch me,

00:22:52 ◼   ► sometimes I think the EU is being a bit heavy-handed,

00:22:55 ◼   ► and then I'll tell you 10 minutes later

00:22:57 ◼   ► that Apple deserves everything it's getting,

00:22:58 ◼   ► and right now I'm leaning more towards,

00:23:00 ◼   ► well, you kind of deserve it, but ask me again

00:23:03 ◼   ► 10 minutes, like I said.

00:23:04 ◼   ► - Well, but that right there, that is the risk

00:23:07 ◼   ► of failing to self-regulate and creating--

00:23:11 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

00:23:12 ◼   ► - Creating a need for governments to step in,

00:23:14 ◼   ► because when governments do step in,

00:23:16 ◼   ► they're not gonna get everything right.

00:23:17 ◼   ► They're gonna do things, 'cause these are largely

00:23:19 ◼   ► not technology people, certainly whatever technology people

00:23:23 ◼   ► who talk to the government and influence them

00:23:25 ◼   ► are gonna be only from a certain side of it,

00:23:27 ◼   ► so when governments are forced to regulate tech,

00:23:31 ◼   ► they don't always do what's good for everybody

00:23:33 ◼   ► or what's good for us in the industry

00:23:34 ◼   ► or what's good for our customers, and that's the risk.

00:23:38 ◼   ► But for Apple failing to self-regulate

00:23:39 ◼   ► to an acceptable degree for all these years,

00:23:42 ◼   ► and I think getting worse over time in a lot of these areas,

00:23:45 ◼   ► they have invited the government regulation risk

00:23:50 ◼   ► by their own failure to self-regulate,

00:23:52 ◼   ► and that's the risk of doing that.

00:23:55 ◼   ► Yes, they've made some extra money here and there

00:23:58 ◼   ► on their various App Store cuts

00:24:00 ◼   ► and anti-competitive behavior they've done there,

00:24:02 ◼   ► but they also provoked governments to regulate them.

00:24:07 ◼   ► Now they have to accept the consequences of that.

00:24:09 ◼   ► I think it would have been a better long-term strategy

00:24:11 ◼   ► to hold back a little on the anti-competitive behavior

00:24:14 ◼   ► and maybe avoid some of this regulation,

00:24:16 ◼   ► but I mean, hey, I'm not the CEO of Apple,

00:24:19 ◼   ► so they didn't take my advice, obviously,

00:24:21 ◼   ► and we'll see how it turns out, but that's,

00:24:23 ◼   ► they rolled the dice themselves, and this is what they got.

00:24:26 ◼   ► - And they're still kind of betting that their compliance,

00:24:29 ◼   ► the people call it malicious compliance.

00:24:30 ◼   ► It's not quite that bad, but it's like,

00:24:32 ◼   ► can we plausibly comply with this in a way

00:24:35 ◼   ► that makes all the alternatives

00:24:36 ◼   ► they're trying to introduce unattractive?

00:24:39 ◼   ► And as we discussed in the episode about the DMA compliance,

00:24:42 ◼   ► even if they were complying with the letter of the law here,

00:24:45 ◼   ► they are not complying with the spirit.

00:24:47 ◼   ► They have worked very hard to arrange things

00:24:49 ◼   ► to make the alternatives basically impossible

00:24:52 ◼   ► for them to be more attractive than what Apple offers

00:24:55 ◼   ► because of the rules that Apple itself makes.

00:24:57 ◼   ► They made rules to make all the other options

00:25:00 ◼   ► at best on equal footing with Apple's,

00:25:02 ◼   ► but most of the time, you know, worse,

00:25:04 ◼   ► and that is not the spirit of the law.

00:25:06 ◼   ► The spirit of the law is supposed to allow competition.

00:25:08 ◼   ► It's not supposed to allow Apple to make a set of rules

00:25:11 ◼   ► that doesn't allow anything better to ever exist,

00:25:14 ◼   ► and rejecting apps like UTM from third-party app stores

00:25:18 ◼   ► is just icing on the cake.

00:25:20 ◼   ► So, so far, they've been betting they can get away with this.

00:25:22 ◼   ► The penalties are supposedly huge,

00:25:24 ◼   ► but like all government things, everything happens slowly.

00:25:27 ◼   ► We've waited how many months for the EU to say

00:25:30 ◼   ► whether they're compliant?

00:25:31 ◼   ► They're probably gonna say that they're not,

00:25:33 ◼   ► and who knows how much longer we'll have to wait after that

00:25:35 ◼   ► for Apple to say, okay, well, what about now?

00:25:37 ◼   ► Now are we compliant?

00:25:38 ◼   ► And this could just go on for ages,

00:25:39 ◼   ► so, you know, the wheels of government move slowly.

00:25:42 ◼   ► - We are brought to you this episode by Squarespace,

00:25:46 ◼   ► the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs

00:25:49 ◼   ► to stand out and succeed online.

00:25:51 ◼   ► Whether you're just starting out

00:25:52 ◼   ► or managing a growing brand,

00:25:53 ◼   ► Squarespace makes it easy to create a beautiful website,

00:25:56 ◼   ► engage with your audience, and sell anything,

00:25:58 ◼   ► from your products to your content to your time,

00:26:01 ◼   ► all in one place and all on your terms.

00:26:04 ◼   ► Squarespace makes it super easy to make websites,

00:26:06 ◼   ► and they are especially good at making storefronts

00:26:09 ◼   ► and business websites.

00:26:10 ◼   ► So they had this brand new guided design system,

00:26:12 ◼   ► Squarespace Blueprint.

00:26:14 ◼   ► You start with a professionally curated layout

00:26:16 ◼   ► and styling options, and you build a unique online presence

00:26:19 ◼   ► from the ground up, tailored to your brand or business,

00:26:22 ◼   ► and optimized for every device.

00:26:23 ◼   ► You can easily launch your website

00:26:25 ◼   ► and get discovered quickly with integrated,

00:26:26 ◼   ► optimized SEO tools, so you show up more often

00:26:30 ◼   ► to more people and grow the way you want.

00:26:32 ◼   ► When your customers are ready to buy from you,

00:26:34 ◼   ► you also have amazing checkout

00:26:35 ◼   ► and flexible payments options,

00:26:37 ◼   ► simple and powerful tools that you accept credit cards,

00:26:40 ◼   ► PayPal, Apple Pay, and even in some countries,

00:26:42 ◼   ► offer the customers the option to buy now

00:26:44 ◼   ► and pay later with Afterpay and Clearpay.

00:26:46 ◼   ► There is so much more to look at at Squarespace.

00:26:49 ◼   ► It's all powered by their new, next generation Fluid engine.

00:26:53 ◼   ► It's never been easier with the Fluid engine

00:26:55 ◼   ► to unlock your unbreakable creativity.

00:26:57 ◼   ► You choose your website starting point

00:26:59 ◼   ► and you customize every design detail.

00:27:01 ◼   ► It's reimagined drag and drop

00:27:02 ◼   ► that works for desktop and mobile,

00:27:04 ◼   ► so you can really stretch your imagination online

00:27:06 ◼   ► with the Fluid engine.

00:27:08 ◼   ► Go to squarespace.com to try all this out with a free trial.

00:27:12 ◼   ► I am so strongly recommending Squarespace.

00:27:15 ◼   ► It is great.

00:27:16 ◼   ► It will almost certainly fit all of your needs, plus more,

00:27:18 ◼   ► and it's so easy, anyone can use it.

00:27:21 ◼   ► Go there, start a free trial.

00:27:22 ◼   ► You can build the whole site in trial mode.

00:27:23 ◼   ► You can see for yourself how great it is.

00:27:25 ◼   ► When you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com/ATP

00:27:28 ◼   ► to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

00:27:31 ◼   ► So once again, squarespace.com for that free trial.

00:27:34 ◼   ► When you're ready to launch, squarespace.com/ATP

00:27:37 ◼   ► to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

00:27:40 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Squarespace for sponsoring our show.

00:27:43 ◼   ► - So achievement unlocked.

00:27:49 ◼   ► I was a little, little itty bitty speck in the keynote,

00:27:52 ◼   ► in the actual WWDC keynote.

00:27:55 ◼   ► We were seated fairly far away from the screen,

00:27:57 ◼   ► which is fine, I'm not complaining,

00:27:59 ◼   ► but my eyes are not good enough to have been able

00:28:01 ◼   ► to discern in the wall of icons of Vision Pro apps,

00:28:06 ◼   ► does mine exist there?

00:28:08 ◼   ► And I mean, given that there's not too many,

00:28:10 ◼   ► you would think so, and some eagle--

00:28:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was all of them on screen.

00:28:14 ◼   ► - And eagle-eyed viewers have pointed out to me,

00:28:17 ◼   ► and I think John, I think you made this a very helpful image

00:28:19 ◼   ► Noah Sarcasm.

00:28:20 ◼   ► - I did make it for you.

00:28:21 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:28:22 ◼   ► But there at the top of the screen is Call Sheet.

00:28:25 ◼   ► So I was actually with my friend, Stee, that did that icon.

00:28:29 ◼   ► Jelly did the kind of default one for iOS,

00:28:31 ◼   ► Stee did the default one for VisionOS,

00:28:34 ◼   ► and I was with him just an hour ago,

00:28:36 ◼   ► and we were both sharing a happy moment

00:28:38 ◼   ► about how we had made it into the keynote.

00:28:40 ◼   ► So that's very, very exciting,

00:28:41 ◼   ► and I was very pleased to see that.

00:28:42 ◼   ► - That's awesome, congrats.

00:28:44 ◼   ► - Thanks.

00:28:44 ◼   ► - That was the good news.

00:28:45 ◼   ► That was the good news to you, Casey.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Now, it's a not so good news.

00:28:48 ◼   ► - Now, some not so great news.

00:28:49 ◼   ► So Apple TV's Insight feature,

00:28:51 ◼   ► which is like the Amazon X-ray thing,

00:28:53 ◼   ► which for a brief window of time,

00:28:55 ◼   ► I thought completely Sherlocked me,

00:28:56 ◼   ► and then the more I've learned,

00:28:57 ◼   ► the more I think that's not true, I say,

00:29:00 ◼   ► as I knock on wood.

00:29:02 ◼   ► Anyways, that feature apparently will also use your iPhone,

00:29:05 ◼   ► which admittedly, like taking off my selfish hat

00:29:08 ◼   ► for a second, that sounds really slick.

00:29:10 ◼   ► So reading from 9to5Mac,

00:29:12 ◼   ► when using the existing remote app on iOS,

00:29:15 ◼   ► Apple will populate your iPhone's display

00:29:17 ◼   ► with the info provided by Insight.

00:29:19 ◼   ► This means you won't need to obstruct your view on the TV

00:29:21 ◼   ► with Insight panel, but instead,

00:29:22 ◼   ► you can view and interact with Insight

00:29:23 ◼   ► entirely on your iPhone.

00:29:25 ◼   ► Again, taking off my selfish hat,

00:29:27 ◼   ► that is very freaking cool.

00:29:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I thought you were totally safe,

00:29:31 ◼   ► because no one wants to junk up their screen

00:29:33 ◼   ► with stuff that blocks the view

00:29:34 ◼   ► when someone wants to ask something,

00:29:36 ◼   ► they should just look it up on their phone.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Obviously, Call Shoot is still way more full featured

00:29:39 ◼   ► than the Insight feature,

00:29:40 ◼   ► and has tons and tons of information, anyway.

00:29:43 ◼   ► But still, Apple did apparently provide a way

00:29:46 ◼   ► for you to look up this information

00:29:47 ◼   ► without junking up your screen.

00:29:49 ◼   ► - This next one, I did not see

00:29:51 ◼   ► when I was going through the show notes

00:29:52 ◼   ► literally three hours ago,

00:29:53 ◼   ► so this must be another late-breaking news,

00:29:55 ◼   ► and it makes me miserable.

00:29:56 ◼   ► So apparently, Insight isn't using metadata

00:30:00 ◼   ► on Apple TV, or Apple, yeah, Apple TV Plus provided media.

00:30:04 ◼   ► It's using ML to identify actors in songs.

00:30:07 ◼   ► Please tell me it ain't so.

00:30:09 ◼   ► - This is very late-breaking news

00:30:11 ◼   ► from Digital Friends, a YouTube channel

00:30:13 ◼   ► that I watch for TV reviews,

00:30:15 ◼   ► and they're doing a news segment,

00:30:16 ◼   ► and they're always talking about Apple TV.

00:30:17 ◼   ► I think this is info straight from Apple, apparently,

00:30:20 ◼   ► that instead of doing what Amazon does,

00:30:22 ◼   ► which is, of course, hire armies of people

00:30:24 ◼   ► to watch every single show on their streaming service,

00:30:26 ◼   ► and manually annotate when every single actor

00:30:29 ◼   ► is on the screen, so that the little pop,

00:30:31 ◼   ► that's what they do, it's like,

00:30:32 ◼   ► "Who's visible on the screen now?

00:30:33 ◼   ► "Who's in this scene?"

00:30:35 ◼   ► X-Ray shows that in the Amazon video thing.

00:30:38 ◼   ► I thought that's what Apple was doing.

00:30:40 ◼   ► They'll just do it for their own shows,

00:30:41 ◼   ► 'cause I believe this is limited to Apple TV Plus,

00:30:43 ◼   ► but according to this video

00:30:44 ◼   ► that we will link in the show notes,

00:30:46 ◼   ► apparently, no, they're using machine learning

00:30:48 ◼   ► to identify both the actors' faces

00:30:50 ◼   ► and the Shazam thing to identify the songs,

00:30:52 ◼   ► 'cause that's all they show,

00:30:53 ◼   ► and this is a very limited feature.

00:30:54 ◼   ► They show the actors who are on screen,

00:30:56 ◼   ► and if there's music, they show the song that's playing.

00:30:59 ◼   ► And I mean, what they said in the video

00:31:02 ◼   ► that we'll link is that that means

00:31:04 ◼   ► Insight could potentially be sort of an OS-wide thing

00:31:08 ◼   ► on TV OS and not just in Apple TV Plus,

00:31:11 ◼   ► because if they're just looking at the video

00:31:13 ◼   ► and identifying faces, and it also means,

00:31:16 ◼   ► well, okay, is it gonna be able to identify faces of people

00:31:20 ◼   ► when they have makeup on or they're dressed

00:31:23 ◼   ► as a fantasy creature or something,

00:31:26 ◼   ► or their backs to the camera, or they're in shadow?

00:31:31 ◼   ► I'm really curious to see, A, if this is actually true,

00:31:34 ◼   ► and B, how well this feature works,

00:31:36 ◼   ► as compared to the let's just brute force it method

00:31:39 ◼   ► of Amazon of having people enter all that information.

00:31:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, this makes me very sad.

00:31:44 ◼   ► I mean, well, again, as a user, that sounds incredible

00:31:48 ◼   ► and really, really useful, but as a developer

00:31:51 ◼   ► of a competing product, that's making me hear

00:31:53 ◼   ► a very, very sad trombone.

00:31:54 ◼   ► - And it makes Apple happy,

00:31:55 ◼   ► because they don't wanna spend money.

00:31:57 ◼   ► And hey, we don't have to pay hundreds of people

00:31:59 ◼   ► to watch thousands of hours of content

00:32:01 ◼   ► and manually annotate it.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Why don't we just let computers do it for us?

00:32:04 ◼   ► - Indeed, that is, well, we'll see what happens.

00:32:07 ◼   ► But selfishly, I hope not, unselfishly, yeah, let's go.

00:32:11 ◼   ► All right, so you had cast about John,

00:32:13 ◼   ► I think it was you, John, maybe it was Marco,

00:32:14 ◼   ► but I presume it was John.

00:32:15 ◼   ► - It was all of us. - It was all of us.

00:32:16 ◼   ► There you go.

00:32:17 ◼   ► How do we disable sports?

00:32:18 ◼   ► Well, it wasn't me, 'cause I actually kinda like this.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Anyway, how to disable--

00:32:21 ◼   ► - Do you like the sports?

00:32:22 ◼   ► You didn't chime in.

00:32:23 ◼   ► Do you like them?

00:32:23 ◼   ► You're like, ooh, I didn't know

00:32:25 ◼   ► that my favorite college football team,

00:32:27 ◼   ► something happened to them.

00:32:28 ◼   ► Do you, does that happen?

00:32:30 ◼   ► - I like it.

00:32:31 ◼   ► On the occasion, it's a team that I care about.

00:32:34 ◼   ► Now, it will, if memory serves,

00:32:35 ◼   ► I don't, other than F1,

00:32:37 ◼   ► I'm not really paying attention to sports at the moment.

00:32:40 ◼   ► So anyways, if it's a team that I don't care about,

00:32:43 ◼   ► or especially a sport I don't care about,

00:32:45 ◼   ► then I find it frustrating and annoying,

00:32:46 ◼   ► like I think you guys do.

00:32:48 ◼   ► But if it's at least a sport that I care about,

00:32:51 ◼   ► like let's say it's a close game between two teams

00:32:53 ◼   ► that I don't really care that much about,

00:32:56 ◼   ► then I don't mind that so much at all.

00:32:57 ◼   ► But so like if it's two college football teams, for example,

00:33:00 ◼   ► that are having a close game,

00:33:01 ◼   ► yeah, maybe I'll be interested in that.

00:33:02 ◼   ► But if it's two, I don't know, baseball teams

00:33:06 ◼   ► that are having a close game, could not care less.

00:33:08 ◼   ► - See, here's why.

00:33:09 ◼   ► This thing has irritated me so much.

00:33:12 ◼   ► You know, people wrote in to say,

00:33:13 ◼   ► "Oh, just unfollow all the sports teams.

00:33:15 ◼   ► "You must have launched Apple Sports

00:33:16 ◼   ► "and followed sports teams."

00:33:18 ◼   ► And so I went in there and, nope, sure didn't.

00:33:21 ◼   ► Then some other people said,

00:33:22 ◼   ► "Oh, you have to go unfollow your local teams

00:33:25 ◼   ► "in the Apple News app under their sports section."

00:33:27 ◼   ► So I went there and, nope,

00:33:30 ◼   ► I didn't have anything there either.

00:33:31 ◼   ► This is literally just an opted in feature

00:33:34 ◼   ► that they added to tvOS for, I think, everyone.

00:33:38 ◼   ► Because nothing about any of my Apple activity

00:33:41 ◼   ► would suggest that I ever want to watch

00:33:43 ◼   ► or ever have watched sports using an Apple device.

00:33:46 ◼   ► So I guess this is just opted in for everyone.

00:33:50 ◼   ► And what dressed me nuts is like,

00:33:52 ◼   ► Apple is, or at least used to be,

00:33:54 ◼   ► so careful about respecting the user experience

00:33:59 ◼   ► when doing something really immersive,

00:34:01 ◼   ► like watching a drama on TV.

00:34:03 ◼   ► Like, I've been sitting there watching these

00:34:05 ◼   ► really serious TV shows, often, by the way,

00:34:08 ◼   ► not even using the Apple's TV app,

00:34:10 ◼   ► often in other apps like the Max app.

00:34:12 ◼   ► And then this sports pop-up pops up in the corner.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Like, I never would have enabled that.

00:34:17 ◼   ► I never did enable that.

00:34:18 ◼   ► I've never watched sports on an Apple device.

00:34:20 ◼   ► I don't follow any sports teams on any device,

00:34:21 ◼   ► let alone an Apple device,

00:34:23 ◼   ► 'cause I don't follow any sports.

00:34:24 ◼   ► They are just intruding upon the sanctity

00:34:28 ◼   ► of a full-screen TV episode, a drama,

00:34:31 ◼   ► that I'm watching on my TV with their premium experience,

00:34:35 ◼   ► allegedly premium experience Apple TV platform and box.

00:34:38 ◼   ► That is so against their ethos.

00:34:40 ◼   ► That is so gross.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Apple used to never do stuff like that,

00:34:44 ◼   ► and there are so many paper cuts like this

00:34:47 ◼   ► creeping into their products in the effort

00:34:49 ◼   ► of ever-increasing services engagement and revenue.

00:34:51 ◼   ► It is really irritating me.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And it just seems like the standards of the company

00:34:56 ◼   ► around things like this are just going down

00:34:59 ◼   ► and down and down over time, and it makes me sad.

00:35:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, you can see why they would want to throw this

00:35:05 ◼   ► in people's face, because no one's ever gonna find it,

00:35:08 ◼   ► like, to turn it on manually.

00:35:10 ◼   ► But the normal way to do that, which is still irritating,

00:35:13 ◼   ► but is way better than what they did,

00:35:14 ◼   ► is on first startup after the OS update,

00:35:19 ◼   ► or on the first time you go back to the home screen

00:35:20 ◼   ► after the OS update, pop up a one-time thing,

00:35:23 ◼   ► you hope it's one time,

00:35:24 ◼   ► pop up a one-time thing that says, "Hey, by the way,

00:35:26 ◼   ► it looks like you just upgraded to tvOS 123.

00:35:29 ◼   ► There's a new feature that will show you sports scores

00:35:32 ◼   ► when something exciting happens.

00:35:33 ◼   ► Do you want to enable that? Yes, no."

00:35:34 ◼   ► Right? But they didn't do that.

00:35:36 ◼   ► They just literally, apparently, turned it on.

00:35:38 ◼   ► And, you know, as Marco mentioned,

00:35:40 ◼   ► those places that it mentioned to look,

00:35:42 ◼   ► you should look there,

00:35:43 ◼   ► because I did add favorite teams to the sports app,

00:35:47 ◼   ► and I'm like, "That must be it," so I deleted them.

00:35:49 ◼   ► And I looked in Apple News,

00:35:50 ◼   ► and I didn't have anything there.

00:35:51 ◼   ► But the actual location of this feature,

00:35:53 ◼   ► thanks to Jason Snell, is in tvOS,

00:35:56 ◼   ► go to Settings, Apps, TV,

00:36:00 ◼   ► and then find the item that says Exciting Games

00:36:03 ◼   ► in the notification section and turn that off.

00:36:05 ◼   ► That is the thing that they turned on for you.

00:36:07 ◼   ► No one would ever find that on their own

00:36:08 ◼   ► to turn it on manually,

00:36:10 ◼   ► which is why you'd have to prompt them

00:36:11 ◼   ► on first boot after the new OS or whatever,

00:36:13 ◼   ► but they just turned it on from everybody.

00:36:15 ◼   ► And as Marco mentioned,

00:36:16 ◼   ► like of all the things to intrude on,

00:36:18 ◼   ► a full-screen, watching television experience

00:36:22 ◼   ► that they need to come up with

00:36:24 ◼   ► like sort of company-wide guidelines that like,

00:36:26 ◼   ► "Look, unless someone has manually opted into it,

00:36:28 ◼   ► you cannot ever pop up anything on the screen,

00:36:30 ◼   ► unless it's like their house is on fire.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Like the HomeKit can pop up things

00:36:33 ◼   ► if there's a smoke alarm going off.

00:36:34 ◼   ► I'll allow that, or like a security camera."

00:36:36 ◼   ► But other than that,

00:36:37 ◼   ► sports scores are not the same as your house on fire.

00:36:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I can totally understand

00:36:43 ◼   ► why this would be very frustrating,

00:36:44 ◼   ► and I do not like how buried it is.

00:36:46 ◼   ► Let me just repeat what you said.

00:36:48 ◼   ► Settings, Apps, TV, Exciting Games.

00:36:51 ◼   ► That's not where I would look to find this at all,

00:36:54 ◼   ► but what are you gonna do?

00:36:56 ◼   ► All right, we got a phenomenal flex from Matthew Willoughby,

00:37:01 ◼   ► who is extremely excited

00:37:03 ◼   ► about finally being able to get a rest day.

00:37:04 ◼   ► And they sent us a picture of an Apple Watch Ultra

00:37:08 ◼   ► where it says, "You've received this award,"

00:37:11 ◼   ► this is your longest move streak,

00:37:12 ◼   ► "You've received this award for your longest move streak,

00:37:14 ◼   ► which lasted 3,338 days.

00:37:18 ◼   ► This was sent on such a day that," I guess,

00:37:20 ◼   ► John, you computed,

00:37:22 ◼   ► "that 3,338 days before when this was sent

00:37:25 ◼   ► was April 23rd of 2015."

00:37:28 ◼   ► Does that have any significance?

00:37:29 ◼   ► - That was the day the original Apple Watch first launched.

00:37:33 ◼   ► On the previous episode, I said,

00:37:34 ◼   ► "Hey, this move streak thing

00:37:36 ◼   ► where you are allowed to have rest days,

00:37:37 ◼   ► I bet there's someone out there who got a Series Zero watch

00:37:40 ◼   ► and has had a move streak going since that day,

00:37:42 ◼   ► and somehow didn't lose their streak

00:37:44 ◼   ► every time they upgraded watches,

00:37:46 ◼   ► and is just thankful that finally they can get a rest day.

00:37:49 ◼   ► This person truly does exist."

00:37:50 ◼   ► - It's Matthew Willoughby.

00:37:52 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:37:53 ◼   ► - This is wearing an Apple Watch Ultra.

00:37:54 ◼   ► So he has upgraded from the Series Zero

00:37:56 ◼   ► through a series of Apple Watches to the Ultra.

00:37:59 ◼   ► His move streak has lasted the longest

00:38:01 ◼   ► that any Apple Watch move streak could possibly last

00:38:04 ◼   ► for someone who bought this watch at retail,

00:38:05 ◼   ► because that was literally day one

00:38:07 ◼   ► of the release of the Apple Watch.

00:38:09 ◼   ► - It's impressive, it's very impressive.

00:38:11 ◼   ► - He says, and I quote, "All caps,

00:38:13 ◼   ► I can finally have a rest day."

00:38:14 ◼   ► Yes, Matthew, you can.

00:38:16 ◼   ► You've earned it.

00:38:17 ◼   ► - I'm not sure that's what he said.

00:38:19 ◼   ► I think what he said is, "I can finally have a rest day!"

00:38:23 ◼   ► Something more along those lines.

00:38:25 ◼   ► - Apple should fly someone to his house.

00:38:27 ◼   ► Like, the gamification of fitness,

00:38:31 ◼   ► I think he won the game.

00:38:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:38:33 ◼   ► - Well done.

00:38:37 ◼   ► All right, Apple ID has been renamed to Apple Account,

00:38:40 ◼   ► as was foretold.

00:38:41 ◼   ► - As the prophecy foretold.

00:38:43 ◼   ► - So Apple, in one of their newsroom posts,

00:38:45 ◼   ► says, "With the releases of iOS 18, iPadOS 18,

00:38:49 ◼   ► Mac OS Sequoia, and Watch OS 11,

00:38:51 ◼   ► Apple ID is renamed to Apple Account

00:38:52 ◼   ► for a consistent sign-in experience

00:38:54 ◼   ► across Apple services and devices,

00:38:56 ◼   ► and relies on a user's existing credentials."

00:38:59 ◼   ► - They did it!

00:39:01 ◼   ► So they did this, and now, make a marker, listener here,

00:39:05 ◼   ► how many years will it take us

00:39:06 ◼   ► to not say Apple ID on this program?

00:39:09 ◼   ► - Infinite, infinite years.

00:39:10 ◼   ► - It's gonna be a while.

00:39:11 ◼   ► - All right, let's start doing some OS-based follow-up,

00:39:15 ◼   ► and let's start, because Jon wrote

00:39:17 ◼   ► pretty much all these show notes.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Where do you think we're gonna start?

00:39:20 ◼   ► We're gonna start with macOS.

00:39:21 ◼   ► So, tell me about macOS 15 Sequoia

00:39:24 ◼   ► with the Apple Pencil and iPad in sidecar mode.

00:39:27 ◼   ► So what's the ask here, what are we talking about?

00:39:30 ◼   ► - Technically, we started with tvOS,

00:39:31 ◼   ► because we wanted to get your glory/sadness in.

00:39:34 ◼   ► But anyway, yes, macOS is the next one up.

00:39:36 ◼   ► So, we were talking before, like,

00:39:38 ◼   ► we were talking about Math Notes.

00:39:39 ◼   ► Like, do you think you could use Math Notes

00:39:41 ◼   ► with handwriting in Sequoia

00:39:43 ◼   ► if you used an iPad in sidecar mode?

00:39:45 ◼   ► Like, they should do that, that would be really cool.

00:39:48 ◼   ► And apparently that already works.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Not in Sequoia, but if you take your iPad

00:39:55 ◼   ► and use it in sidecar mode as a second monitor,

00:39:57 ◼   ► which I did with my iPad, and have an Apple Pencil,

00:40:00 ◼   ► you can go into, for example, the Notes app,

00:40:02 ◼   ► and scribble yourself a little sketch on your iPad,

00:40:05 ◼   ► even though you're using the macOS version of Notes.

00:40:07 ◼   ► Because then you're just using your iPad

00:40:09 ◼   ► as a secondary screen, but it's basically

00:40:11 ◼   ► a touch screen on your Mac.

00:40:13 ◼   ► It even does the hover effect with the cursor

00:40:15 ◼   ► and everything, that already works.

00:40:16 ◼   ► Now, I didn't try it with Math Notes on Sequoia,

00:40:19 ◼   ► mostly because Math Notes in Sequoia

00:40:21 ◼   ► in the very first developer beta is super duper buggy.

00:40:25 ◼   ► But I'm hoping this will mean that if you really want

00:40:27 ◼   ► to handwrite Math Notes on your Mac,

00:40:29 ◼   ► and you have an iPad, you can do it.

00:40:32 ◼   ► - That is very cool, that's super neat.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Chris Kjellberg writes with regard

00:40:36 ◼   ► to iPhone mirroring in Sequoia,

00:40:38 ◼   ► "Is iPhone mirroring a way to rearrange

00:40:40 ◼   ► your iOS home screen more easily?"

00:40:41 ◼   ► I don't know, possibly, right?

00:40:43 ◼   ► - Yes, I hadn't thought of it,

00:40:44 ◼   ► but I would much rather use a mouse pointer

00:40:47 ◼   ► than my finger, because A, it doesn't obstruct everything,

00:40:50 ◼   ► and B, I have pixel perfect precision as I try to drag,

00:40:53 ◼   ► because it will still be that weird game

00:40:54 ◼   ► of bumping around icons and stuff.

00:40:56 ◼   ► But this actually is a big upgrade

00:40:59 ◼   ► in my ability to rearrange my home screen

00:41:02 ◼   ► without pulling my hair out.

00:41:03 ◼   ► We'll see how it goes.

00:41:04 ◼   ► But, and also the thing with being able to leave space,

00:41:07 ◼   ► I hope it doesn't make the icons as squirmy,

00:41:09 ◼   ► and as collapsible as they were before.

00:41:13 ◼   ► So I am actually looking forward to trying this.

00:41:15 ◼   ► - Jon, I'm not trying to be funny.

00:41:16 ◼   ► Remind me why people like,

00:41:19 ◼   ► what is this network locations thing?

00:41:21 ◼   ► I've heard of this, and I remember talking about

00:41:23 ◼   ► it having left and everyone was upset,

00:41:25 ◼   ► but I don't think I've ever used it,

00:41:26 ◼   ► so can you give me a two second tour

00:41:27 ◼   ► of what network locations is, please?

00:41:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't use it either,

00:41:31 ◼   ► but I believe the idea is that

00:41:33 ◼   ► when you are in different locations,

00:41:35 ◼   ► you might have different network setups.

00:41:37 ◼   ► When I'm at work, I use work's DNS servers,

00:41:39 ◼   ► I have a VPN, Wi-Fi is ahead of ethernet

00:41:43 ◼   ► in my network order, all sorts of stuff like that.

00:41:46 ◼   ► And you don't wanna have to manually

00:41:48 ◼   ► switch all this networking stuff, network locations.

00:41:51 ◼   ► I don't know if it's actually location aware,

00:41:52 ◼   ► but it does let you have a pop-up menu that says,

00:41:54 ◼   ► I'm on this network now, I'm on my home network,

00:41:56 ◼   ► I'm on my work network, I'm on my traveling network

00:41:58 ◼   ► where I use a VPN or whatever.

00:42:01 ◼   ► I believe that's what the feature is for.

00:42:03 ◼   ► The reason it's a story is because it disappeared

00:42:05 ◼   ► when they redid the settings app,

00:42:06 ◼   ► and when the system preferences became system settings,

00:42:08 ◼   ► network locations disappeared.

00:42:10 ◼   ► The functionality was still in the OS,

00:42:11 ◼   ► but the GUI for it was gone, and the story is now,

00:42:14 ◼   ► thanks to Raycat, let us know,

00:42:16 ◼   ► network locations are back in the GUI in Sequoia.

00:42:18 ◼   ► So if you missed them, they are there.

00:42:20 ◼   ► They're still kind of buried in the network pane,

00:42:22 ◼   ► but it's better than trying to do it from the command line.

00:42:25 ◼   ► - We do have some sad news though, from Rob.

00:42:28 ◼   ► Bad news, Syracuse, it looks like the password field

00:42:31 ◼   ► is still right aligned in the passwords app,

00:42:32 ◼   ► at least on iOS.

00:42:34 ◼   ► - And it's the same on Mac OS.

00:42:35 ◼   ► I launched, I installed Sequoia, I was using the beta,

00:42:37 ◼   ► I launched the password app.

00:42:38 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just so weird.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Like if you stick the insertion point at like,

00:42:44 ◼   ► the, I can't even say it, the beginning of the word?

00:42:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it is the beginning.

00:42:48 ◼   ► It's the first letter of the word,

00:42:49 ◼   ► and you type a character, the character appears

00:42:52 ◼   ► to the left of your insertion point.

00:42:54 ◼   ► - That's very weird.

00:42:55 ◼   ► - Which makes sense if you think about it,

00:42:56 ◼   ► but like when you're typing, it's like,

00:42:57 ◼   ► this is not how typing should be.

00:43:00 ◼   ► Like again, I think this is possible on the web

00:43:03 ◼   ► using modern web technology,

00:43:04 ◼   ► but no one would ever do this.

00:43:07 ◼   ► Like why?

00:43:08 ◼   ► Just, it's literally a form.

00:43:11 ◼   ► There are labels and there are text fields.

00:43:13 ◼   ► Username colon field, password colon field.

00:43:17 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be this hard apple.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Just use regular text fields, you're breaking my brain.

00:43:21 ◼   ► I should file a bug on it now.

00:43:24 ◼   ► I guess like, you know, you gotta get those bugs in early.

00:43:26 ◼   ► Hell, I mean, I don't know why I didn't file it

00:43:27 ◼   ► for the year and a half since this,

00:43:29 ◼   ► or two years, whatever it's been since then.

00:43:31 ◼   ► File it now, like you made a whole new app, it's all new.

00:43:34 ◼   ► Can we fix the text fields please?

00:43:36 ◼   ► - Our friend MB Bischoff writes

00:43:38 ◼   ► with regard to Sequoia window tiling.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Window tiling in Sequoia can be disabled

00:43:42 ◼   ► or set to happen only when option is held down.

00:43:44 ◼   ► Also it can optionally leave margins between windows.

00:43:47 ◼   ► That's pretty cool, I didn't know any of that.

00:43:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm shocked if there are any settings

00:43:50 ◼   ► related to this.

00:43:51 ◼   ► I was afraid I would just have to like find

00:43:52 ◼   ► some hidden P list key to turn it off.

00:43:54 ◼   ► But if you can find it in system settings,

00:43:57 ◼   ► it's a little bit hidden.

00:43:58 ◼   ► There are three whole options to do it.

00:44:00 ◼   ► And I was playing with the tiling.

00:44:03 ◼   ► I don't know if I know all the options,

00:44:05 ◼   ► but it seems kind of limited.

00:44:09 ◼   ► It didn't seem like a lot of flexibility for the tiling

00:44:11 ◼   ► where I can do eighths and thirds and grids

00:44:14 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:44:14 ◼   ► It's more like just left half of the screen,

00:44:15 ◼   ► right half of the screen, top bottom,

00:44:18 ◼   ► limited top bottom stuff because when you do the top,

00:44:20 ◼   ► you end up going to the spaces thing.

00:44:22 ◼   ► But anyway, margins between windows,

00:44:23 ◼   ► I am a big fan of, but I know some people don't like it,

00:44:26 ◼   ► so hey, make it a toggle.

00:44:27 ◼   ► If you don't like margins, no margins.

00:44:28 ◼   ► If you do like them, there they are.

00:44:30 ◼   ► It doesn't let you adjust the margins, which they should.

00:44:33 ◼   ► And my dream of having full Windows Server access

00:44:35 ◼   ► to make a real window manager continues to be a dream.

00:44:38 ◼   ► But for now, all those people who like Windows style,

00:44:41 ◼   ► Windows tiling, they will get thrown a bone in Sequoia.

00:44:45 ◼   ► - We have a miracle.

00:44:47 ◼   ► A miracle has happened in Sequoia.

00:44:49 ◼   ► Steve Trout and Smith noticed that there's an update

00:44:53 ◼   ► to the chess app.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Yes, in macOS, there's been a chess app,

00:44:56 ◼   ► what, forever, I think, or at least in--

00:44:59 ◼   ► - I believe it was there in Next as well,

00:45:00 ◼   ► but don't quote me.

00:45:01 ◼   ► In Next app, it's a very old app.

00:45:03 ◼   ► - Right, so apparently the renderer has been updated,

00:45:07 ◼   ► and according to Steve Trout and Smith,

00:45:09 ◼   ► it's the first time since macOS 10.3 Panther,

00:45:13 ◼   ► which is 21 years ago.

00:45:17 ◼   ► My goodness.

00:45:18 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:45:19 ◼   ► - We'll link to a post from my cable sash that shows

00:45:22 ◼   ► the old renderer and the new one.

00:45:23 ◼   ► The new one, I'm assuming, is using a reality kit,

00:45:25 ◼   ► and it looks nice, and the old one looks super dated.

00:45:27 ◼   ► And remember, the old one was new in macOS 10.3,

00:45:32 ◼   ► 21 years ago.

00:45:34 ◼   ► So the chess app, not only will the chess app not die,

00:45:36 ◼   ► it seems like it's getting more updated

00:45:38 ◼   ► than a lot of other apps in macOS these days.

00:45:42 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:45:43 ◼   ► With regard to iCloud Keychain and browser integration

00:45:47 ◼   ► in Sequoia, Jonathan Freese noticed that a clean install

00:45:50 ◼   ► of macOS Sequoia has what appears to be pre-installed

00:45:54 ◼   ► extensions for passwords, and Jon, you've put in a bunch

00:45:57 ◼   ► of JSON in our show documents,

00:45:58 ◼   ► so can you talk about this, please?

00:46:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, he just sent the path to a JSON file,

00:46:05 ◼   ► and it was like /library/google/chrome/native-message-host/com.apple

00:46:11 ◼   ► .password-manager.json.

00:46:13 ◼   ► Like, okay, does that say that the extension

00:46:17 ◼   ► is pre-installed, or is that just information

00:46:19 ◼   ► about where they might get it?

00:46:20 ◼   ► And I looked at it, and if you look at the JSON,

00:46:23 ◼   ► it's got a name and a description, and it's got a path,

00:46:26 ◼   ► and the path is to the Cryptex thing,

00:46:28 ◼   ► I think we talked about on the past shows,

00:46:29 ◼   ► the system has these Cryptexes, which are like sub-images

00:46:32 ◼   ► that they're allowed to be overlaid

00:46:33 ◼   ► on top of the cryptographically secure OS image,

00:46:36 ◼   ► so that the combination of them

00:46:37 ◼   ► is also cryptographically secure,

00:46:39 ◼   ► and the Cryptexes are so that Apple can update those

00:46:41 ◼   ► separately from the whole OS, so they don't have to do

00:46:44 ◼   ► a full OS update when one little thing changes.

00:46:47 ◼   ► And it looks like, well, it's called password-manager-browser-extension-helper.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Is that the full extension?

00:46:54 ◼   ► It looks like it, I mean, it's a .app,

00:46:57 ◼   ► it's .app, contents, Mac OS, I think that Apple

00:47:00 ◼   ► is literally bundling the iCloud, like Jonathan says,

00:47:04 ◼   ► the iCloud keychain extensions for Chrome and for Firefox.

00:47:09 ◼   ► I guess I should, I mean, I had limited time

00:47:12 ◼   ► with the developer beta, it seems pretty solid,

00:47:14 ◼   ► but a lot of the new features are buggy

00:47:16 ◼   ► or entirely missing, like the AI stuff,

00:47:18 ◼   ► so I'll have to, I think you'd look into this,

00:47:20 ◼   ► but that would be a bold move.

00:47:23 ◼   ► Pre-shipping, like really just saying,

00:47:25 ◼   ► hey, third parties have to make you install

00:47:28 ◼   ► their browser extensions to use it

00:47:30 ◼   ► for their password manager, but we can just ship them.

00:47:32 ◼   ► Everyone who gets this, and honestly,

00:47:34 ◼   ► I think, well, in one respect, I think it's a good idea,

00:47:37 ◼   ► because you get explaining to anybody that,

00:47:40 ◼   ► you know, you can use iCloud keychain,

00:47:43 ◼   ► it does two-factor, it does this, it does that.

00:47:45 ◼   ► A, they don't know what iCloud keychain is,

00:47:47 ◼   ► and they say, oh, but I use Chrome.

00:47:50 ◼   ► No problem, just install the iCloud keychain

00:47:55 ◼   ► Chrome extension, I would never trust someone,

00:47:58 ◼   ► you know, someone who's not a tech nerd,

00:48:00 ◼   ► to be able to find the correct, non-scammy,

00:48:02 ◼   ► real live Apple iCloud keychain.

00:48:05 ◼   ► I don't even know what it's called.

00:48:06 ◼   ► I have to check 100 times before I install it

00:48:08 ◼   ► to make sure, this is actually from Apple,

00:48:10 ◼   ► or is this just gonna steal all my passwords?

00:48:12 ◼   ► Pre-installing in the OS is the right way to go.

00:48:15 ◼   ► Must be nice to be the platform owner.

00:48:17 ◼   ► - Indeed, you can just make these things so much easier.

00:48:21 ◼   ► There is incredibly great news for a lot of developers,

00:48:25 ◼   ► particularly macOS developers.

00:48:27 ◼   ► For the longest time, if you wanted to have

00:48:30 ◼   ► a virtual machine on your computer,

00:48:32 ◼   ► maybe of an old version of macOS or something like that,

00:48:35 ◼   ► you couldn't sign into iCloud, so that means on this VM,

00:48:39 ◼   ► you couldn't do anything that relates to iCloud,

00:48:40 ◼   ► you know, because it wouldn't let you sign in.

00:48:42 ◼   ► And that's still true of all the existing,

00:48:47 ◼   ► or the already released versions of macOS,

00:48:49 ◼   ► but Sequoia virtual machines will allow logging into iCloud,

00:48:53 ◼   ► which is super duper exciting for those that have that need.

00:48:56 ◼   ► That's not me personally, but that is really great, no joke.

00:49:00 ◼   ► So reading from Ars Technica,

00:49:01 ◼   ► as long as your host operating system is macOS 15 or newer,

00:49:04 ◼   ► and your guest operating system is macOS 15 or newer,

00:49:06 ◼   ► VMs will now be able to sign into and use iCloud

00:49:09 ◼   ► and other Apple ID-related services,

00:49:11 ◼   ► just as they would when running directly on the hardware.

00:49:14 ◼   ► That's very cool.

00:49:15 ◼   ► - I think they mean Apple account-related services.

00:49:16 ◼   ► - Ah, that's true, they say we already did it.

00:49:19 ◼   ► - It begins.

00:49:20 ◼   ► - It begins.

00:49:21 ◼   ► Then there's a doc on Apple's developer site

00:49:24 ◼   ► using iCloud with macOS virtual machines,

00:49:27 ◼   ► and reading from that doc,

00:49:28 ◼   ► when you create a VM in macOS 15

00:49:29 ◼   ► from a macOS 15 software image, blah, blah, blah,

00:49:32 ◼   ► virtualization configures an identity for the VM

00:49:35 ◼   ► that it derives from the security information

00:49:36 ◼   ► in the host's secure enclave.

00:49:38 ◼   ► Just as individual physical devices have distinct identities

00:49:41 ◼   ► based on their secure enclaves,

00:49:42 ◼   ► this identity is distinct from other VMs.

00:49:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is a thing that pretty much

00:49:46 ◼   ► only Apple could do because they are the ones

00:49:48 ◼   ► who are the keeper of all the software

00:49:50 ◼   ► that interacts with the secure enclave.

00:49:51 ◼   ► The reason it didn't work before

00:49:53 ◼   ► is because the VMs didn't have access to that,

00:49:55 ◼   ► and you need that to sign into iCloud,

00:49:56 ◼   ► and you may be thinking,

00:49:57 ◼   ► who cares if you can sign into iCloud?

00:49:59 ◼   ► So many things and so many apps require an iCloud,

00:50:01 ◼   ► not just in-app purchase or stuff like that,

00:50:04 ◼   ► but anything that uses CloudKit

00:50:06 ◼   ► or any of Apple's cloud services.

00:50:08 ◼   ► It was very difficult to do what iOS users take for granted

00:50:12 ◼   ► of being able to have a simulator or a VM

00:50:14 ◼   ► where you can test your software,

00:50:16 ◼   ► especially for Mac OS

00:50:18 ◼   ► if you wanna support two versions back.

00:50:19 ◼   ► You had to keep running old Macs, running old versions,

00:50:21 ◼   ► and that's a little bit more cumbersome

00:50:23 ◼   ► than keeping around old phones

00:50:25 ◼   ► because the Macs are just bigger,

00:50:26 ◼   ► and you gotta have a keyboard and mouse attached to them

00:50:28 ◼   ► and everything, right?

00:50:29 ◼   ► We're like, it would be great

00:50:30 ◼   ► if we could just do this all in virtualization.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Oh, but we can't because even though you can

00:50:34 ◼   ► and have been able to virtualize Mac OS for years,

00:50:36 ◼   ► the inability to sign into iCloud put a big damper on that.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Now, it's not great that this requires,

00:50:41 ◼   ► you have to be running Sequoia to run the VM,

00:50:43 ◼   ► and the only OS you can run in the VM is Sequoia or later.

00:50:47 ◼   ► So it doesn't help people now, but two years from now,

00:50:51 ◼   ► you'll be able to run the two-year-old version of Mac OS

00:50:54 ◼   ► in a VM.

00:50:54 ◼   ► So I mean, you could quibble with how they did it

00:50:56 ◼   ► or whatever, but obviously it kind of requires support

00:50:59 ◼   ► in both the OS and the VM thing,

00:51:00 ◼   ► so I can see why it requires 15 on both,

00:51:03 ◼   ► and in a few years, this will fix itself.

00:51:05 ◼   ► I'm just glad this finally came.

00:51:06 ◼   ► They heard the cries of their developers.

00:51:08 ◼   ► Next stop, Mac OS simulators in Xcode, dare to dream.

00:51:13 ◼   ► - That would be cool, and I mean,

00:51:15 ◼   ► there's no reason not to, right?

00:51:16 ◼   ► I mean, the reason is it takes work,

00:51:18 ◼   ► but hypothetically, there's no reason

00:51:20 ◼   ► we couldn't, that Apple couldn't do it.

00:51:22 ◼   ► All right, let's move on to Apple intelligence.

00:51:25 ◼   ► Rick Knoller writes with regard to Apple intelligence

00:51:28 ◼   ► and third-party mail apps.

00:51:29 ◼   ► Could you add your Gmail account to the Apple mail app

00:51:32 ◼   ► and then hide it?

00:51:33 ◼   ► That might allow Apple intelligence to access that info,

00:51:36 ◼   ► but you wouldn't have to use it or see it in mail.app.

00:51:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do this on my Mac.

00:51:41 ◼   ► I think I mentioned this before.

00:51:42 ◼   ► I have a weird arrangement, Apple mail on my Mac,

00:51:45 ◼   ► which is an app that I do not use.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I occasionally launch it, and I have my Gmail account

00:51:50 ◼   ► configured with this ancient Google thing

00:51:53 ◼   ► that has been in there forever,

00:51:54 ◼   ► where you can pop from your Gmail account.

00:51:58 ◼   ► It's very strange, and they still support it.

00:52:00 ◼   ► I keep waiting for it to break,

00:52:01 ◼   ► but the old pop protocol where you just say,

00:52:03 ◼   ► what's new since the last time I checked,

00:52:05 ◼   ► and it downloads the messages individually, right?

00:52:07 ◼   ► That exists for Gmail, and I use it

00:52:10 ◼   ► to basically make a network backup of my Gmail, right?

00:52:13 ◼   ► An incremental network backup.

00:52:15 ◼   ► So I launch Apple mail every once in a while.

00:52:17 ◼   ► It downloads all the messages into a pop local mailbox,

00:52:20 ◼   ► and I just stick them into a folder called Gmail archive.

00:52:22 ◼   ► It's the tertiary backup of my Gmail.

00:52:27 ◼   ► And what that means is Apple intelligence on, not my Mac,

00:52:31 ◼   ► but on my future Mac will be able to have access to my mail

00:52:35 ◼   ► to use that to give it the context

00:52:37 ◼   ► that it needs to do smart things.

00:52:38 ◼   ► But on my phone, I don't do that.

00:52:40 ◼   ► And so the suggestion from Rick is something I'm gonna try.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I configured my Gmail account, not with pop,

00:52:46 ◼   ► but just the default way you can configure it on your phone.

00:52:49 ◼   ► I haven't figured out how to hide the account.

00:52:51 ◼   ► I just ignore it, and I'm into my other inbox.

00:52:53 ◼   ► I'm not in the all inboxes view or whatever.

00:52:56 ◼   ► And I hope what that means is that my phone

00:52:58 ◼   ► will also see my mail.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Now, unfortunately, I don't ever wanna use Apple mail,

00:53:03 ◼   ► and my default email client is set to the Gmail app,

00:53:06 ◼   ► but I hope this means that Apple intelligence,

00:53:09 ◼   ► again, not on my current phone 'cause it's only a 14 Pro,

00:53:12 ◼   ► will be able to be smart about my email

00:53:15 ◼   ► even though I don't use Apple mail.

00:53:17 ◼   ► - All right, Xcode AI code completions.

00:53:20 ◼   ► In the documentation for Xcode 16,

00:53:23 ◼   ► it reads Xcode 16 includes predictive code completion

00:53:26 ◼   ► powered by a machine learning model

00:53:27 ◼   ► specifically trained for Swift and Apple SDKs.

00:53:30 ◼   ► See you, Objective-C.

00:53:31 ◼   ► Predictive code completion requires a Mac with Apple Silicon

00:53:33 ◼   ► and 16 gigs of unified memory running Mac OS 15.

00:53:37 ◼   ► - So another double whammy.

00:53:38 ◼   ► So A, Xcode 16, if you want the cool code completion,

00:53:42 ◼   ► you have to also be running Mac OS 15,

00:53:44 ◼   ► which has not always been the case.

00:53:45 ◼   ► Sometimes, usually when there's new versions of Xcode,

00:53:47 ◼   ► you can run them on the current stable OS,

00:53:50 ◼   ► and they work and have all the features, but not this year.

00:53:54 ◼   ► And the second thing is, hey, you want code completion?

00:53:56 ◼   ► Hope you didn't buy a base model MacBook

00:53:57 ◼   ► or MacBook Pro with eight gigs of RAM

00:54:00 ◼   ► because the cool, smart code completion requires 16 gigs

00:54:03 ◼   ► of memory.

00:54:05 ◼   ► In other words, it requires a Co-pilot Plus PC.

00:54:07 ◼   ► - Ooh.

00:54:08 ◼   ► - All right, yeah, that's tough, but I mean, here we are.

00:54:12 ◼   ► More with regards to the hardware requirements,

00:54:17 ◼   ► David Steer writes, "I'm curious as to why Apple Intelligence

00:54:20 ◼   ► works on M1 chips, but you need an A18 Pro

00:54:22 ◼   ► to use it on iPhone.

00:54:23 ◼   ► If I recall correctly, the M1 is roughly equivalent

00:54:25 ◼   ► to the A15 Bionic, which means anything after iPhone 13,

00:54:28 ◼   ► including iPhone SE third generation,

00:54:30 ◼   ► could possibly have the necessary power,

00:54:32 ◼   ► but crucially, not the required amount of RAM.

00:54:35 ◼   ► Do you think it's possible that Apple's

00:54:36 ◼   ► notoriously stingy RAM provision could be coming back

00:54:38 ◼   ► to bite them in the era of AI?

00:54:40 ◼   ► It's true that lack of backwards compatibility

00:54:42 ◼   ► could help them manage server capacity

00:54:43 ◼   ► or drive customers to upgrade their devices,

00:54:45 ◼   ► but they'll need to balance that with the difficult

00:54:47 ◼   ► messaging that their new flagship features are not available

00:54:49 ◼   ► to the vast majority of their user base."

00:54:51 ◼   ► - Yep, 100%, it's the RAM.

00:54:53 ◼   ► I mean, Grubber asked that on the talk show,

00:54:55 ◼   ► and they were typically cagey about it,

00:54:57 ◼   ► but they did confirm.

00:54:58 ◼   ► It's lots of factors, including the RAM.

00:55:00 ◼   ► It's 100% the RAM.

00:55:01 ◼   ► Like, that's why the 15 Pro can do it,

00:55:03 ◼   ► and the other ones don't.

00:55:04 ◼   ► Yes, the 15 Pro does have a better neural engine

00:55:06 ◼   ► than the 14 Pro, but not that much better.

00:55:09 ◼   ► But what the 15 Pro has is more RAM,

00:55:11 ◼   ► and it seems to me that getting any of this stuff

00:55:15 ◼   ► to work on a phone with the limited amount of RAM

00:55:17 ◼   ► that's on a phone, because I believe,

00:55:19 ◼   ► what, the 15 Pro has what, eight gigs?

00:55:20 ◼   ► - I believe that's right.

00:55:21 ◼   ► - So we just got done saying that on the Mac,

00:55:24 ◼   ► to get a somewhat pedestrian feature, AI feature,

00:55:28 ◼   ► like code completion of like where I write some code for you

00:55:31 ◼   ► or whatever, you need 16 gigs of RAM.

00:55:34 ◼   ► And they're trying to get this to work on a phone with eight.

00:55:37 ◼   ► They cannot get it to work on a phone with six, apparently.

00:55:40 ◼   ► Like RAM is the thing here.

00:55:41 ◼   ► If you bought a base model MacBook Air

00:55:44 ◼   ► after hearing people rave that you can do everything

00:55:45 ◼   ► on this, you can buy an eight gig MacBook Air,

00:55:47 ◼   ► you can do Xcode, you can do all your development,

00:55:49 ◼   ► well, you don't get the AI features that you want

00:55:51 ◼   ► from the new version of Xcode, 'cause you need 16.

00:55:54 ◼   ► And we discussed on a past show how the rumor was

00:55:56 ◼   ► that all of the phones for this year in September

00:55:59 ◼   ► are going to have eight gigs of RAM, this is why, right?

00:56:01 ◼   ► And even eight gigs is probably pushing it,

00:56:03 ◼   ► because it's the same amount as the 15 Pro.

00:56:05 ◼   ► Why didn't they go to nine or 10 or 11 or 12 or 16, whatever?

00:56:08 ◼   ► AI eats RAM, it needs a lot of it.

00:56:12 ◼   ► RAM takes battery, RAM takes space, RAM produces heat.

00:56:16 ◼   ► Like Apple is stingy because they're cheap,

00:56:19 ◼   ► but also stingy because, especially in a portable device,

00:56:22 ◼   ► RAM has a cost to it.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Well, now they're rolling out tons of AI features,

00:56:26 ◼   ► and I don't think Apple wants the only phone

00:56:31 ◼   ► that can run this stuff to be the very tippy top flagship,

00:56:34 ◼   ► 'cause even the iPhone 15 can't run it.

00:56:36 ◼   ► Only the 15 Pro can run it, that is not ideal.

00:56:39 ◼   ► It's nice on the Mac that it can run all,

00:56:41 ◼   ► you know, all the AI features can run all the way back down

00:56:43 ◼   ► to the M1, so kudos to those teams,

00:56:45 ◼   ► but like the Macs have more stuff, they have more battery,

00:56:48 ◼   ► they have more memory, they have more CPU.

00:56:50 ◼   ► And even though the Xcode code completion requires 16 gigs,

00:56:53 ◼   ► Apple Intelligence, broadly speaking, as far as I know,

00:56:56 ◼   ► does not require 16 gigs,

00:56:57 ◼   ► so a lot of the Apple Intelligence features

00:56:58 ◼   ► will work with eight gigs, just not the Xcode thing,

00:57:01 ◼   ► it seems, but yeah, this is definitely

00:57:04 ◼   ► chickens coming home to roost.

00:57:05 ◼   ► Apple being stingy with RAM seems like it's fine.

00:57:07 ◼   ► Every time someone probably made an internal argument,

00:57:09 ◼   ► we should put more RAM, they say, "It's fine, I'll show you."

00:57:11 ◼   ► Like we even got some inside information ages ago

00:57:14 ◼   ► that they said we did tests with, it was just about SSDs.

00:57:17 ◼   ► And it turns out one SSD chip isn't actually that bad,

00:57:20 ◼   ► it's not noticeably worse than having the two SSD chips,

00:57:23 ◼   ► so we didn't do it.

00:57:24 ◼   ► They reversed that decision because of, you know,

00:57:26 ◼   ► presumably public outcry, or they just didn't want to hear

00:57:28 ◼   ► people whine about it anymore.

00:57:30 ◼   ► But all the previous cases where they said

00:57:32 ◼   ► actually eight gigs of RAM is fine,

00:57:33 ◼   ► they need to keep up with the pace of the industry,

00:57:37 ◼   ► even if it doesn't seem like it's strictly necessary,

00:57:40 ◼   ► they can lag behind a little bit,

00:57:41 ◼   ► but you can't just ignore it forever in saying

00:57:43 ◼   ► there will never be another thing that we need to do

00:57:44 ◼   ► that requires more RAM than we have now.

00:57:47 ◼   ► Here's AI saying, "Guess what, we found a use

00:57:49 ◼   ► for all that RAM."

00:57:51 ◼   ► That always happens.

00:57:52 ◼   ► There's always something over the horizon

00:57:53 ◼   ► that requires more resources.

00:57:54 ◼   ► Usually it's just games.

00:57:56 ◼   ► Honestly, games will always eat everything you give them,

00:57:59 ◼   ► right?

00:58:00 ◼   ► But sometimes there's applications that everybody uses,

00:58:02 ◼   ► although at this point everybody games to some degree

00:58:04 ◼   ► or another, something is going to want those resources.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Computers are never fast enough and never have enough RAM,

00:58:10 ◼   ► so you have to keep up with the industry.

00:58:13 ◼   ► You can't say we finally plateaued.

00:58:14 ◼   ► Computers will never need more than eight gigs of RAM.

00:58:17 ◼   ► It's AI now, who knows what it'll be in 20 years.

00:58:20 ◼   ► Apple, please give us RAM.

00:58:22 ◼   ► - I think this also should inform your purchasing decisions

00:58:27 ◼   ► of Macs over time.

00:58:29 ◼   ► If you buy a Mac today and you want it to still have

00:58:32 ◼   ► cutting edge features for as long as possible,

00:58:35 ◼   ► this is a pretty big reason to not just leave it

00:58:37 ◼   ► at the eight gig default.

00:58:38 ◼   ► Even 16, because LLMs as we know them are giant RAM hogs

00:58:43 ◼   ► and because we don't really know what the future will hold

00:58:48 ◼   ► with features, there might be some really killer feature

00:58:51 ◼   ► that comes out in two or three years that requires

00:58:54 ◼   ► 16 gigs of RAM or more on the Mac to actually be usable.

00:58:58 ◼   ► And even if Apple doesn't do it, someone else might.

00:59:01 ◼   ► So this should inform your purchases even today.

00:59:05 ◼   ► Sometimes you can kind of peer into the future and be like,

00:59:08 ◼   ► well, I think we're on the cusp of something

00:59:10 ◼   ► that's about to need a lot of Resource X.

00:59:13 ◼   ► In this case, we are there right now for RAM.

00:59:17 ◼   ► We are in the early days of something that needs a lot

00:59:20 ◼   ► of RAM and so maybe for your next Mac purchase,

00:59:23 ◼   ► get a little more than you otherwise would have.

00:59:26 ◼   ► - Apple's AI training data at machinelearning.apple.com

00:59:29 ◼   ► and we'll put the full URL in the show notes of course.

00:59:32 ◼   ► It reads, we train our foundation models on licensed data,

00:59:35 ◼   ► including data selected to enhance specific features,

00:59:38 ◼   ► as well as publicly available data collected

00:59:39 ◼   ► by our web crawler, Applebot.

00:59:42 ◼   ► Web publishers have the option to opt out of the use

00:59:44 ◼   ► of their web content for Apple Intelligence Training

00:59:46 ◼   ► with the data usage control.

00:59:48 ◼   ► We never use our users' private personal data

00:59:50 ◼   ► or user interactions when training our foundation models.

00:59:53 ◼   ► And we apply filters to remove personally

00:59:55 ◼   ► identical information like social security

00:59:57 ◼   ► and credit card numbers that are publicly available

01:00:00 ◼   ► on the internet.

01:00:00 ◼   ► We also filter profanity and other low quality content

01:00:03 ◼   ► to prevent its inclusion in the training corpus.

01:00:05 ◼   ► In addition to filtering, we perform data extraction,

01:00:07 ◼   ► deduplication and the application of a model-based classifier

01:00:10 ◼   ► to identify high quality documents.

01:00:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is kind of the same answer

01:00:14 ◼   ► that they gave on stage.

01:00:15 ◼   ► We saw them twice talk about this,

01:00:17 ◼   ► I think once in the iJustine interview

01:00:19 ◼   ► and then again on the talk show.

01:00:20 ◼   ► And as I said before, and I'll say again,

01:00:23 ◼   ► their answer to how do you train your AI models is not great.

01:00:27 ◼   ► It could be worse.

01:00:28 ◼   ► I like the idea of they're saying,

01:00:29 ◼   ► we are not using your private or personal data,

01:00:31 ◼   ► we're not training in anything that you do.

01:00:33 ◼   ► And they do use licensed data and so on and so forth,

01:00:35 ◼   ► but they also always have this item,

01:00:37 ◼   ► they say we use publicly available data.

01:00:41 ◼   ► You know, oh, you can opt out.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Well, it's kind of hard for us to opt out

01:00:44 ◼   ► when this is the first we're hearing

01:00:45 ◼   ► of the fact that you're training AIs on our data.

01:00:47 ◼   ► So you already got it, you already did it,

01:00:49 ◼   ► you already trained.

01:00:50 ◼   ► Now, I think Applebot is a pre-existing thing

01:00:53 ◼   ► and we could have been blocking things

01:00:54 ◼   ► with robots.txt or whatever.

01:00:55 ◼   ► But if you care about this,

01:00:56 ◼   ► if you didn't know that Apple was training its AI,

01:01:00 ◼   ► you wouldn't have maybe been blocking Applebot

01:01:02 ◼   ► because you're like, oh, Apple's not doing anything like that

01:01:03 ◼   ► and I don't have to worry about it.

01:01:04 ◼   ► Now, setting aside the legality and ethics

01:01:07 ◼   ► of training on this type of data,

01:01:11 ◼   ► I'm still kind of surprised that Apple didn't use

01:01:15 ◼   ► one of its greatest resources, money,

01:01:17 ◼   ► to pull an Adobe and say,

01:01:19 ◼   ► we do not train on publicly available information.

01:01:21 ◼   ► We train only on information that we licensed.

01:01:24 ◼   ► Cut deals with the people that have the information.

01:01:26 ◼   ► Make a licensing deal with the New York Times,

01:01:29 ◼   ► if you have to do with Wikipedia,

01:01:31 ◼   ► with Encyclopedia Britannica,

01:01:33 ◼   ► just having sort of consensual data sharing relationships,

01:01:38 ◼   ► but apparently that is insufficient

01:01:39 ◼   ► to train something as complicated

01:01:41 ◼   ► as what they're attempting to do.

01:01:42 ◼   ► So they've been training on publicly available

01:01:44 ◼   ► information, meaning they're crawling the web,

01:01:46 ◼   ► looking for stuff and throwing it through this engine

01:01:49 ◼   ► and how that's going to shake out in the US anyway

01:01:54 ◼   ► has yet to be determined because those cases

01:01:56 ◼   ► are winding in their way through the court system.

01:01:57 ◼   ► I don't think Apple's really painting itself

01:01:59 ◼   ► into a corner here because there are other companies

01:02:02 ◼   ► that are much worse off.

01:02:03 ◼   ► If it turns out that training on publicly available

01:02:07 ◼   ► information requires some kind of legal arrangement

01:02:10 ◼   ► or whatever, Apple will just make those legal arrangements.

01:02:12 ◼   ► Like they're not doomed or anything like that.

01:02:14 ◼   ► It just kind of surprises me that they didn't take

01:02:17 ◼   ► an even more conservative approach than they have.

01:02:19 ◼   ► And so it forces Apple executives to be on stage

01:02:22 ◼   ► and they have to say, we use this, we use that,

01:02:24 ◼   ► and we also use publicly available information.

01:02:26 ◼   ► If you press them and say, what is publicly available

01:02:28 ◼   ► information, I mean, they will say web pages,

01:02:30 ◼   ► web pages that are on the web, your web pages.

01:02:32 ◼   ► Do you have a blog?

01:02:33 ◼   ► Is it on the web?

01:02:34 ◼   ► Does it have stuff in it?

01:02:35 ◼   ► We probably trained our AI on it,

01:02:36 ◼   ► unless it contains profanity or credit card numbers

01:02:38 ◼   ► or whatever, right?

01:02:39 ◼   ► That is not an easy thing for a company like Apple

01:02:42 ◼   ► to talk about or say.

01:02:44 ◼   ► And in this case, they can't say, oh, but OpenAI,

01:02:47 ◼   ► we push all the problems off onto them

01:02:48 ◼   ► because this is Apple training its models,

01:02:51 ◼   ► its foundation models, and presumably its future

01:02:54 ◼   ► ChatGPT competitor on publicly available information.

01:02:58 ◼   ► - All right, so what if you don't want your website

01:03:00 ◼   ► to be included in Apple's AI models?

01:03:03 ◼   ► Well, there's a knowledge base document

01:03:05 ◼   ► that we will link in the show notes that describes

01:03:06 ◼   ► how you can modify your robots.txt

01:03:08 ◼   ► in order to tell it to kindly bugger off.

01:03:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, just go back in time and do that like two years ago.

01:03:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:03:16 ◼   ► But we'll put a link in the show notes if you're interested.

01:03:18 ◼   ► All right, Tim Cook did a interview on the Washington Post

01:03:21 ◼   ► and the Washington Post asked a lot of questions.

01:03:24 ◼   ► John, you've extracted a few.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Do you want me to play the role of Tim

01:03:28 ◼   ► and you'll play the role of the Washington Post?

01:03:30 ◼   ► - Oh, you can't do both of them?

01:03:32 ◼   ► - I can, I thought we would play it.

01:03:33 ◼   ► - You can do a funny voice. - Play the space.

01:03:34 ◼   ► - Can you do Tim Cook's accent?

01:03:35 ◼   ► I can't do it.

01:03:36 ◼   ► Good morning.

01:03:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:03:39 ◼   ► All right, the Washington Post asked,

01:03:40 ◼   ► did you take any special delight

01:03:41 ◼   ► in calling it Apple Intelligence

01:03:42 ◼   ► as opposed to artificial intelligence?

01:03:44 ◼   ► To which Tim replied,

01:03:45 ◼   ► it seems sort of a logical conclusion

01:03:47 ◼   ► after looking at so many names.

01:03:48 ◼   ► At least for me, I can tell you it wasn't a riff off

01:03:50 ◼   ► of artificial intelligence.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Wow, I'm struggling.

01:03:53 ◼   ► - It wasn't?

01:03:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, right.

01:03:55 ◼   ► It was sort of calling it what it is.

01:03:57 ◼   ► I'm sure a lot will be said about it,

01:03:59 ◼   ► but it's probably not as it appears.

01:04:01 ◼   ► - As far as Tim's concerned, it's just like,

01:04:02 ◼   ► oh, it's an Apple feature that's intelligent

01:04:04 ◼   ► and has nothing to do with AI.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Okay.

01:04:07 ◼   ► - It's a feature, Tim, okay.

01:04:08 ◼   ► I mean, at least for him.

01:04:10 ◼   ► He's saying his perspective.

01:04:11 ◼   ► - Washington Post asked,

01:04:15 ◼   ► what's your confidence that Apple Intelligence

01:04:16 ◼   ► will not hallucinate?

01:04:18 ◼   ► To which Tim replied, it's not 100%,

01:04:20 ◼   ► but I think we've done everything that we know to do,

01:04:22 ◼   ► including thinking very deeply about the readiness

01:04:24 ◼   ► of the technology in the areas that we're using it in.

01:04:26 ◼   ► So I'm confident that it will be very high quality,

01:04:28 ◼   ► but I'd say in all honesty, that's short of 100%.

01:04:31 ◼   ► I would never claim it's 100%.

01:04:33 ◼   ► - So this is interesting because,

01:04:35 ◼   ► as people have noted, when you opt into OpenAI,

01:04:39 ◼   ► you have to explicitly say you're sending your data to them,

01:04:41 ◼   ► and when it comes back,

01:04:43 ◼   ► there's a little disclaimer underneath it,

01:04:44 ◼   ► like there isn't all these things that says,

01:04:46 ◼   ► check important information,

01:04:48 ◼   ► or this information might not be correct,

01:04:49 ◼   ► or so on and so forth.

01:04:50 ◼   ► But this question was not about OpenAI.

01:04:52 ◼   ► It was not about the OpenAI integration.

01:04:53 ◼   ► It wasn't about that screen

01:04:55 ◼   ► that has the disclaimer at the bottom.

01:04:56 ◼   ► It was about Apple Intelligence,

01:04:58 ◼   ► because Apple does have models.

01:05:00 ◼   ► The chances of Apple's own stuff, not OpenAI,

01:05:03 ◼   ► the stuff that stays on device

01:05:04 ◼   ► or goes to Apple's super duper private servers,

01:05:06 ◼   ► what about that?

01:05:07 ◼   ► What does that have a chance of hallucinating?

01:05:08 ◼   ► As I continue to futilely point out,

01:05:10 ◼   ► hallucinating is a terrible term,

01:05:12 ◼   ► because there is no distinction between a quote hallucination

01:05:15 ◼   ► and a quote correct answer.

01:05:17 ◼   ► The AI model is functioning the same way in both cases.

01:05:21 ◼   ► It's not like, oh, it made a mistake,

01:05:23 ◼   ► or it got, like we know from the outside,

01:05:24 ◼   ► we can judge whether we think this is a good or bad thing,

01:05:27 ◼   ► but the internal machinery is operating

01:05:30 ◼   ► as expected in both cases.

01:05:32 ◼   ► Everything from an LLM is either not a hallucination

01:05:35 ◼   ► or a hallucination.

01:05:37 ◼   ► There's no special, like, oh, it did a bad, it did a good.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Like, it's just a big stew of words and probabilities,

01:05:43 ◼   ► and it's a machine that is deterministic,

01:05:46 ◼   ► that is it fed various inputs and various parameters

01:05:49 ◼   ► that tweak it, and you get output from it,

01:05:51 ◼   ► and every time it does that, it is exactly as correct

01:05:54 ◼   ► or exactly as incorrect as every other instance.

01:05:57 ◼   ► But anyway, what it is saying is,

01:05:59 ◼   ► can that machine produce stuff that is not useful

01:06:02 ◼   ► because it doesn't fulfill the purpose?

01:06:05 ◼   ► If you're asking a question,

01:06:06 ◼   ► did it give you an answer that is correct?

01:06:08 ◼   ► Did it actually give you something helpful?

01:06:10 ◼   ► Did it understand what you were asking for

01:06:12 ◼   ► and give it to you?

01:06:13 ◼   ► Like, we can judge what it does,

01:06:15 ◼   ► and this is Tim Cook saying,

01:06:17 ◼   ► some of the things that we ship as Apple intelligence

01:06:20 ◼   ► might not do the right thing.

01:06:21 ◼   ► Now, for Genmoji, what do you care?

01:06:25 ◼   ► You ask for, you know, a turtle skiing down the Alps,

01:06:30 ◼   ► and the turtle doesn't look like a turtle.

01:06:32 ◼   ► Who cares, right?

01:06:33 ◼   ► No harm, no foul.

01:06:34 ◼   ► Summarization, I guess it could get wrong

01:06:36 ◼   ► if you ask it to summarize something,

01:06:38 ◼   ► and its summary is not accurate

01:06:42 ◼   ► in a way that is significant.

01:06:44 ◼   ► Like, if it's a big article about, like, you know,

01:06:47 ◼   ► how much detergent you're supposed to use in the dishwasher,

01:06:49 ◼   ► and the article has a whole bunch of paragraphs

01:06:51 ◼   ► talking about all the things that you shouldn't do,

01:06:52 ◼   ► and then at the end tells you what you should do,

01:06:54 ◼   ► and the summary decides that the best summary of this article

01:06:59 ◼   ► is one of the bad things,

01:07:00 ◼   ► that the article is somehow concluding

01:07:02 ◼   ► that you should do one of the things

01:07:03 ◼   ► that it's actually saying you shouldn't do,

01:07:05 ◼   ► I would call that, in Tim's parlance here, hallucination,

01:07:08 ◼   ► because you asked it to summarize the article,

01:07:09 ◼   ► and it didn't summarize the article the way a human would,

01:07:13 ◼   ► because it didn't understand the point of the thing,

01:07:16 ◼   ► and if you rely on that summary,

01:07:18 ◼   ► you'll put the wrong amount of detergent

01:07:19 ◼   ► in your dishwasher or whatever, right?

01:07:22 ◼   ► And this is another awkward position

01:07:23 ◼   ► for Tim Cook to be put in.

01:07:25 ◼   ► This is a good question from the Washington Post.

01:07:26 ◼   ► You have to say, you're rolling out

01:07:28 ◼   ► a bunch of these features.

01:07:29 ◼   ► Are they going to essentially malfunction

01:07:31 ◼   ► and not do what they're supposed to do

01:07:34 ◼   ► in a way that's not like, oh, we'll file a radar

01:07:36 ◼   ► and we'll fix it, 'cause Apple ships software

01:07:37 ◼   ► that doesn't do what it's supposed to do all the time,

01:07:39 ◼   ► but those are bugs, and they can fix them.

01:07:41 ◼   ► There's nothing you can do when this happens.

01:07:43 ◼   ► You could send this to Apple and say,

01:07:44 ◼   ► hey, it summarized this thing wrong,

01:07:47 ◼   ► and they'll try to make it better next year,

01:07:48 ◼   ► but it's not as simple as this caused a crash,

01:07:51 ◼   ► or this thing was misaligned,

01:07:53 ◼   ► or a cosmetic error, or whatever.

01:07:54 ◼   ► This is a different realm,

01:07:55 ◼   ► where Apple is shipping products that might not function

01:07:59 ◼   ► correctly and that there's nothing Apple can do about it

01:08:02 ◼   ► except for try harder next year with their next model

01:08:05 ◼   ► that is trained on more data than they select from the web.

01:08:07 ◼   ► - So then the Washington Post asked,

01:08:10 ◼   ► what makes you think OpenAI and Sam Altman specifically

01:08:12 ◼   ► are trustworthy partners who share Apple's values?

01:08:14 ◼   ► Very well phrased and a very good question,

01:08:17 ◼   ► to which Tim replied, they've done some things

01:08:20 ◼   ► on privacy that I like.

01:08:21 ◼   ► They're not tracking IP addresses,

01:08:23 ◼   ► and some of the things like that

01:08:24 ◼   ► that we're very keen on not happening.

01:08:27 ◼   ► I think they're a pioneer in the area,

01:08:28 ◼   ► and today they have the best model,

01:08:30 ◼   ► and I think our customers want something

01:08:31 ◼   ► with world knowledge some of the time.

01:08:34 ◼   ► So we considered everything and everyone,

01:08:35 ◼   ► and obviously we're not stuck on one person forever

01:08:38 ◼   ► for something.

01:08:39 ◼   ► We're integrating with other people as well,

01:08:41 ◼   ► but they're first, and I think today

01:08:42 ◼   ► it's because they're best.

01:08:43 ◼   ► - It's another uncomfortable situation.

01:08:45 ◼   ► People keep asking Apple about OpenAI.

01:08:47 ◼   ► It's uncomfortable that feature exists.

01:08:49 ◼   ► It's uncomfortable that OpenAI is what it is.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Tim is trying to put a part of his spin on it,

01:08:52 ◼   ► saying they're doing some things with privacy they like.

01:08:54 ◼   ► You know why they're doing that?

01:08:55 ◼   ► Probably because Apple forced them to.

01:08:57 ◼   ► I don't think they were doing that on their own.

01:08:59 ◼   ► I think if you use a chat GPD through the web,

01:09:01 ◼   ► they are tracking IP addresses and other stuff like that,

01:09:04 ◼   ► but whatever they did with Apple,

01:09:06 ◼   ► there's baggage that comes with Samalpa and OpenAI,

01:09:11 ◼   ► and Apple, I guess they feel like,

01:09:14 ◼   ► this is on Tim, 'cause he's the person

01:09:17 ◼   ► to give a go, no go on this type of thing,

01:09:19 ◼   ► saying this is what everyone's talking about.

01:09:21 ◼   ► We need to have it.

01:09:22 ◼   ► We don't have any of this.

01:09:23 ◼   ► We don't have anything that matches this internally,

01:09:26 ◼   ► and in fact, we think it's a little bit dangerous,

01:09:27 ◼   ► but either way, we have no choice.

01:09:28 ◼   ► We have to partner, and the Google deal didn't go through,

01:09:32 ◼   ► and they're still keeping the door open,

01:09:33 ◼   ► saying it's not just OpenAI.

01:09:34 ◼   ► We'll partner with whoever, but yeah,

01:09:36 ◼   ► they have to partner with this company

01:09:38 ◼   ► and put a disclaimer on their little thing.

01:09:40 ◼   ► It's the opt-in, and there's a disclaimer

01:09:42 ◼   ► that says it might be wrong,

01:09:43 ◼   ► but they feel like they need to have it

01:09:45 ◼   ► because they think that's what people want.

01:09:48 ◼   ► I think they're right that that's what people want.

01:09:50 ◼   ► I think the whole story would have been

01:09:51 ◼   ► that they still don't have an AI chatbot,

01:09:53 ◼   ► but I think the utility of AI chatbots is still maybe not,

01:09:58 ◼   ► it's kind of like when something is good enough

01:10:00 ◼   ► to work in a Disney context,

01:10:02 ◼   ► I know Apple and Disney aren't the same thing,

01:10:03 ◼   ► but when is it good enough to work in an Apple context

01:10:05 ◼   ► where we have more expectations about,

01:10:09 ◼   ► I don't know, the cultural expectations

01:10:13 ◼   ► of an Apple product are different than a PC-type thing

01:10:16 ◼   ► or an Android phone.

01:10:18 ◼   ► It's more cautious about using the same things

01:10:23 ◼   ► like the App Store is not the same as the open web,

01:10:27 ◼   ► let's put it that way, right?

01:10:28 ◼   ► Apple runs the App Store in a more cautious way

01:10:31 ◼   ► than the open web runs, which is bad and good in some ways,

01:10:35 ◼   ► but here they are, they're like,

01:10:36 ◼   ► we have to provide this option

01:10:38 ◼   ► and we have to awkwardly answer every press question

01:10:40 ◼   ► about it by saying, people want it, they're the best one,

01:10:43 ◼   ► we're not stuck with them, next question, please.

01:10:47 ◼   ► - The aforementioned Steve Trouton Smith asks

01:10:49 ◼   ► with regard to Siri unsupported devices,

01:10:52 ◼   ► and so Steve writes, I still have so many questions

01:10:55 ◼   ► about Apple intelligence, does Siri just not get better

01:10:57 ◼   ► on anything below an iPhone 15 Pro,

01:10:59 ◼   ► no improvement to the cloud-based Siri on older devices,

01:11:02 ◼   ► HomePods, Apple TVs?

01:11:03 ◼   ► It's a good point.

01:11:04 ◼   ► - I don't know the answer to that.

01:11:06 ◼   ► I don't think anyone asked Apple that and they should have.

01:11:09 ◼   ► Obviously, the older devices can't run Apple intelligence

01:11:13 ◼   ► on them, certainly a HomePod can't.

01:11:14 ◼   ► Talk about RAM limits, right?

01:11:17 ◼   ► - Which by the way, for a device that is all about Siri

01:11:21 ◼   ► and that is so reliant on Siri and is so bad with Siri,

01:11:26 ◼   ► that's the device that needs it the most.

01:11:30 ◼   ► It's such a shame that this is not going to get it.

01:11:33 ◼   ► - It makes me wonder, is a new HomePod coming

01:11:35 ◼   ► with eight gigs of RAM?

01:11:36 ◼   ► Actually, I shouldn't say that.

01:11:37 ◼   ► I don't actually know how much RAM a HomePod has.

01:11:39 ◼   ► Do you know how much RAM a HomePod has?

01:11:41 ◼   ► - I have no idea.

01:11:42 ◼   ► - 128 kilobytes, I don't know.

01:11:44 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:11:44 ◼   ► - Maybe it does have eight gigs, but anyway,

01:11:47 ◼   ► here's the thing though, for all the devices

01:11:49 ◼   ► like every iPhone except for the 15 Pro,

01:11:51 ◼   ► it's not like Apple can't make Siri better for them

01:11:56 ◼   ► because they could, the whole magic of their strategy

01:12:00 ◼   ► for Apple intelligence is that they run it on device

01:12:04 ◼   ► if they can and if they can't, they run it on basically

01:12:07 ◼   ► a logical extension of your device.

01:12:09 ◼   ► That's the whole private cloud computing thing.

01:12:11 ◼   ► It is like a bigger iPhone processor

01:12:14 ◼   ► that is not in the room with you.

01:12:16 ◼   ► And so that's the cloud, the transparency of like,

01:12:19 ◼   ► we'll run on device or we'll run there,

01:12:20 ◼   ► but the software doesn't care where it runs

01:12:23 ◼   ► because it's basically running on Apple Silicon

01:12:25 ◼   ► with, you know, of a different size, right?

01:12:28 ◼   ► Runs on big Apple Silicon in our data centers,

01:12:30 ◼   ► runs on smaller Apple Silicon on your phone.

01:12:32 ◼   ► It could be that on devices like the HomePod

01:12:36 ◼   ► or every phone except for the 15 Pro,

01:12:39 ◼   ► it could just send everything to private cloud computing,

01:12:41 ◼   ► which obviously would be slower and there'd be latency

01:12:43 ◼   ► and so on and so forth, but at this point,

01:12:45 ◼   ► tons of Siri stuff, most of the Siri stuff

01:12:47 ◼   ► goes across the network anyway.

01:12:49 ◼   ► That could make Siri smarter on devices

01:12:53 ◼   ► that can't run Apple intelligence locally.

01:12:55 ◼   ► I would vastly prefer that.

01:12:56 ◼   ► I would let, my HomePod now is currently sending things

01:12:58 ◼   ► over the network and taking a long time to do bad things.

01:13:01 ◼   ► How about updating it and having it do everything

01:13:03 ◼   ► through private cloud computing to the LLMs?

01:13:06 ◼   ► I hope that's what they do, but I find it not encouraging

01:13:10 ◼   ► that Apple never offered that as a thing that they're doing.

01:13:14 ◼   ► Everyone was so excited and jazzed about Apple intelligence,

01:13:16 ◼   ► no one really said, what about my HomePods?

01:13:19 ◼   ► Maybe they just assume we all understand

01:13:23 ◼   ► that's what's going on, but they didn't say it.

01:13:25 ◼   ► They didn't say, we'll dynamically choose

01:13:27 ◼   ► if we do it locally or remotely,

01:13:28 ◼   ► and of course, on devices that can't do it locally,

01:13:30 ◼   ► we'll do it all remotely.

01:13:31 ◼   ► They didn't say that at all.

01:13:32 ◼   ► So we will all find out when we start installing the betas

01:13:36 ◼   ► that actually have Apple intelligence features in them

01:13:38 ◼   ► on our unsupported devices.

01:13:40 ◼   ► Apple Silicon in Apple's private cloud computing servers.

01:13:44 ◼   ► There's a blog post about this,

01:13:45 ◼   ► which I did not have a chance to read,

01:13:47 ◼   ► but I presume, Jon, you at least glanced at it.

01:13:49 ◼   ► You know, I need some AI to summarize this for me.

01:13:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, so this was a question on the talk show live,

01:13:55 ◼   ► which we talked about before.

01:13:56 ◼   ► You can, we'll link to the YouTube video

01:13:58 ◼   ► so you can check it out, or the Vision Pro video,

01:14:01 ◼   ► if that's your, if you have one,

01:14:02 ◼   ► get it out of its little marshmallow.

01:14:05 ◼   ► Gruber asked them-- - It's a pretty big

01:14:06 ◼   ► marshmallow. - Yeah.

01:14:08 ◼   ► Gruber asked them, what is the Apple Silicon

01:14:11 ◼   ► that is running on Apple's private cloud compute servers?

01:14:14 ◼   ► Like, what is it?

01:14:15 ◼   ► And predictably, they did not answer that question, right?

01:14:18 ◼   ► It's Apple Silicon.

01:14:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, there was no way they were gonna answer that.

01:14:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, we talked about the,

01:14:22 ◼   ► like maybe three or four shows ago,

01:14:24 ◼   ► we talked about the rumor that it said

01:14:26 ◼   ► that Apple is going to run data centers

01:14:28 ◼   ► with M2 Ultras in them or whatever.

01:14:30 ◼   ► And we thought, that doesn't make any sense.

01:14:31 ◼   ► And again, the private cloud computing thing explains that.

01:14:33 ◼   ► We talked about it in the WWDC episode.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Now it does make sense,

01:14:36 ◼   ► and using M2 Ultras also makes sense,

01:14:39 ◼   ► because this is a chip they already designed.

01:14:41 ◼   ► The speculation has been that there hasn't been enough time