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The Talk Show

402: ‘Live From WWDC 2024’, With John Giannandrea, Craig Federighi, and Greg Joswiak

 

00:00:00 ◼   ► Good evening, you beautiful geeks! Welcome to San Jose's historic California Theater.

00:00:13 ◼   ► We are thrilled to once again be live and in person at Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference

00:00:19 ◼   ► 2024. Now won't you please silence your devices, then open your ears and put your hands together

00:00:30 ◼   ► for our host, Jon Gruber.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Hello! Welcome to the talk show. I am your host Jon Gruber. Most of you here are probably

00:00:52 ◼   ► familiar with me. Welcome! I was told we were backstage and the House Sound guys were like,

00:01:01 ◼   ► "This crowd is really loud. What do you do?" It is great. The crowd is always great here.

00:01:11 ◼   ► It does feel a little extra energetic and with good reason. I think we're going to have

00:01:16 ◼   ► a very good show. But before we get to the meat of the show, I have some very special

00:01:23 ◼   ► people to thank. These are our sponsors, without whom we would not be here, trust me. They

00:01:30 ◼   ► are amazing sponsors, three of them. The first amazing sponsor is iMazing. iMazing 3 is the

00:01:40 ◼   ► all new version of the world's best iPhone manager for both Mac and Windows. Since the

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00:01:53 ◼   ► you wish existed working for your iPhone, iPad, or if you still have one, an iPod and

00:01:59 ◼   ► your computer. I don't know, Phil Schiller obviously still has an iPod. I know he flies

00:02:05 ◼   ► with it. Version 3 of iMazing features a brand new user interface. It is so beautiful. It

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00:03:31 ◼   ► is iMazing.com/thetalkshow. Second, my good friends at Flexibits, the makers of Fantastical

00:03:46 ◼   ► and Cardhop. These are, you guys probably have heard of them, these are amazing. Fantastical

00:03:54 ◼   ► is a calendar, Cardhop is a contact manager, absolutely gorgeous, previous Apple design

00:04:01 ◼   ► award winner and they are for every platform Apple makes. Of course the Mac, iPhone, iPad,

00:04:10 ◼   ► they even have right on day one a fantastic version of Fantastical for Apple Vision Pro.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Really gorgeous. Now I'm not naming names, but there are other companies that don't have

00:04:25 ◼   ► a calendar app that is native for Vision Pro. Fantastical was native on day one and it is

00:04:33 ◼   ► gorgeous. How Fantastical for Vision did not win an Apple design award this year, I do

00:04:39 ◼   ► not know. I got to find Galenzi in the audience after the show and petition him, I don't know,

00:04:45 ◼   ► must be a back story there, but it is beautiful, beautiful apps. They also have Flexibits Premium

00:04:52 ◼   ► is their subscription service. You pay for Flexibits Premium and you get it all. You

00:04:57 ◼   ► get Cardhop and Fantastical for all the platforms. You don't just pay per platform, you just

00:05:03 ◼   ► pay one thing, you get them all. They are great apps, they work together very well and

00:05:09 ◼   ► they have been using the fact that it is a subscription service to build out an infrastructure

00:05:15 ◼   ► on the web to do things like doing the thing where you pick a time for an event and people

00:05:25 ◼   ► coordinate that sort of thing. All super, super secure, they only send the data that

00:05:30 ◼   ► they need to the cloud, they don't keep anything they don't need, but to coordinate picking

00:05:34 ◼   ► time, stuff like that, you go to the web, you send an invitation, people can say, "Oh,

00:05:39 ◼   ► I'm free at 2, I'm free at 2, he's free at 3, everybody's free at 2.30, then we'll do

00:05:45 ◼   ► it at 2.30." That sort of stuff, all they're built into Flexibits Premium service, it is

00:05:51 ◼   ► fantastic. And serious, serious stuff like integration with Microsoft 365 and totally

00:05:57 ◼   ► fun stuff like stickers that you can put in messages. I mean, the whole scale from totally

00:06:02 ◼   ► serious enterprise to putting stickers in messages with the fantastic mascot. Really,

00:06:09 ◼   ► really great. New and existing customers with this special deal for this show, new customers

00:06:15 ◼   ► get 20% off when you start a subscription. Lots of people who watch my show probably

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00:06:31 ◼   ► renew. Everybody gets 20% off, new and existing, by going to flexibits.com/wwdc2024. That's

00:06:39 ◼   ► F-L-E-X-I-B-I-T-S flexibits.com/wwdc2024. Third, Flighty. How many people here already

00:06:58 ◼   ► use Flighty? I use Flighty, it is fantastic. Flighty, another Apple Design Award winner

00:07:10 ◼   ► back in 2023, way back last year. Every download of Flighty, you get the pro features complimentary

00:07:19 ◼   ► for your first flight. You do not need to sign up for a subscription and then cancel

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00:07:29 ◼   ► can see what it's like. I guarantee you, you will sign up after you've flown with Flighty

00:07:34 ◼   ► compared to flying without it. Every year, there's a new record for problems with flights.

00:07:41 ◼   ► I mean, I don't think I'm making this up here. Flying is getting worse. Last minute delays,

00:07:50 ◼   ► more disruptions, plus the airlines are secret and they don't really want to keep you up

00:07:56 ◼   ► to date. Flighty hooks into all of the data sources and APIs that the airline industry

00:08:01 ◼   ► has and keeps you up to date. I cannot tell you just in the last year how many times Flighty

00:08:05 ◼   ► has told me about gate changes. It's not just like, oh, you go from A-10 to A-8, but when

00:08:10 ◼   ► you go from gate A-23 to gate D-12. It's like, oh, that's 20 minutes away in the airport.

00:08:18 ◼   ► Flighty tells you as soon as it happens. You're not at the wrong end of the airport. It is

00:08:21 ◼   ► absolutely fantastic. They've got great features for sharing your flights with friends or friends

00:08:29 ◼   ► sharing your flights with you. So if somebody in your family or dear friend is traveling,

00:08:34 ◼   ► put their flight into Flighty and you get everything you need to know and of course

00:08:38 ◼   ► hooks up to all of the latest stuff that you would want them to. Live activities on the

00:08:43 ◼   ► home screen, everything you want. It is so fantastic, so beautiful. Honestly, the airlines

00:08:50 ◼   ► just want you to sit quietly and just be uninformed at the gate, get there three hours early and

00:08:54 ◼   ► just sit there on your iPhone. No, get Flighty. You will be there when you need to be there

00:09:00 ◼   ► without wasting time and you will be informed of everything you need to know. Go to flighty.com/tts.

00:09:10 ◼   ► The talk show, TTS, flighty.com/tts. My thanks to all of those sponsors. And now with no

00:09:26 ◼   ► further ado, I have two very special guests to introduce. Ladies and gentlemen, let's

00:09:34 ◼   ► hear it for Craig Federighi and Greg Joswiak. Craig. >> Fired up? I'm fired up. >> You

00:09:47 ◼   ► shrunk. >> I'm not really Craig Federighi. I can never pull off the real hair. Anyway. All

00:09:55 ◼   ► right. Let's bring up the real Craig. >> I think they got both Craig Federighi and Greg

00:10:07 ◼   ► Joswiak at the same time. >> They did. It's a twofer. >> That was fantastic. >> That's as

00:10:16 ◼   ► close as Craig hair I'm ever going to get to. >> All right. >> Going in the opposite

00:10:21 ◼   ► direction. >> How many people in the audience saw last year's show? How many people remember

00:10:29 ◼   ► the end of last year's show? Mr. Federighi is one hell of a guitar player and did some

00:10:42 ◼   ► shredding. We don't have anything like that today. Now, how many people here were at Apple

00:10:50 ◼   ► Park for the keynote yesterday? And I'm sure for everybody watching in post on YouTube,

00:11:01 ◼   ► I'm sure everybody has watched the keynote. But for those who were in Apple Park the last

00:11:07 ◼   ► couple of years since this new format has been out, the keynote starts right at 10 a.m.

00:11:12 ◼   ► but around 955, Tim comes out, welcomes the crowd, has Craig come out to also say hello

00:11:18 ◼   ► to the crowd, and Craig comes out and fibs to the audience and tells them that there

00:11:28 ◼   ► are no gags, there are no -- there's no zany opening movie, and none of that is true. Well,

00:11:38 ◼   ► I'm an honest man, and I'm telling you, I swear to you, there is no stunt at the end

00:11:44 ◼   ► of the show. We spitballed ideas. There was an idea to maybe have Craig parachute from

00:11:58 ◼   ► up there. We have a helmet. >> That helmet is heavy, by the way. >> But I am to understand

00:12:06 ◼   ► there was some concern about the helmet and the hair. >> I mean, not especially. >> But

00:12:12 ◼   ► I thought it looked especially good on Josh. >> Yeah, I had cool Craig hair. Hey, we do

00:12:17 ◼   ► have some gifts for you. You have to declare those on your taxes. They are two patches

00:12:22 ◼   ► for WWDC. >> I have one more comment about the opening. I thought the opening movie of

00:12:35 ◼   ► the keynote was fantastic. I mean, I think you guys always -- [ Applause ] I mean, it

00:12:48 ◼   ► looked realistic. You did not jump out of an airplane. >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

00:12:54 ◼   ► what the hell, Gruber? What are you implying? >> But here's my real question. My real question,

00:13:03 ◼   ► number one, how great was it to see captain Phil Schiller flying the airplane? [ Applause ]

00:13:12 ◼   ► >> I will tell you that stuff wasn't the only take. >> Well, that was my question. Are there

00:13:25 ◼   ► alternate takes where you didn't say I'm getting too old for this stuff? >> That was the G-rated

00:13:30 ◼   ► version of that take. >> You know Phil, you know there are other takes. >> As usual, I

00:13:38 ◼   ► think you guys did a very good job ordering the keynote, and I think we can stick to roughly

00:13:45 ◼   ► keynote order as we progress through topics tonight. If you guys -- >> We picked that

00:13:51 ◼   ► order for a reason. >> It opened with vision OS 2 and a sort of state of Apple vision pro.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Do you find it frustrating that five months in of shipping, four months? >> Four, four,

00:14:11 ◼   ► five months. Don't age us. >> That there's widespread sentiment that, well, it's not

00:14:24 ◼   ► really as popular as the iPhone. This product is a dud. >> John, we've gotten that with

00:14:31 ◼   ► every product we've ever introduced for new products. Truly, I mean, the iPod came out

00:14:36 ◼   ► and people are like, oh, my God, who's going to buy this, you know, at the time it was

00:14:42 ◼   ► a $399 music player, CD players are $39. There's no future in this. And the reality is it takes

00:14:49 ◼   ► time. It took us about two years, right? And iPod, if you remember that worked out pretty

00:14:54 ◼   ► well. But in the meantime, everybody was calling for its death. Same thing, by the way, for

00:15:02 ◼   ► the iPhone. The iPhone started off and it had a fairly meager start. You may remember

00:15:07 ◼   ► even after we were sometime into it, we said, okay, we'd love to get 1% market share of

00:15:14 ◼   ► the phone business in the first full year, which in 2008, we just barely made it, right?

00:15:19 ◼   ► And that turned out pretty well as well. >> Got past two, I think. >> Got past two. And,

00:15:29 ◼   ► you know, I mean, we have all the time. And watch has gotten it. I mean, oh, what a dud,

00:15:33 ◼   ► who's buying this? It's working out pretty well. So it takes time to build a business.

00:15:38 ◼   ► I think there's a general human tendency. I actually think it, God, I hate to tell you

00:15:42 ◼   ► whose quote it was, but somebody who talked about the fact that people tend to overestimate

00:15:49 ◼   ► things that can happen in the near term and they underestimate things that happen in the

00:15:53 ◼   ► longer term. And I think that product expectations are much like that. It takes a little while

00:15:57 ◼   ► to build a business. >> Well, and isn't platform building almost

00:16:04 ◼   ► the canonical example of that? That what platform ever debuted as a huge hit? Maybe the web,

00:16:15 ◼   ► right? You could sort of say sort of exploded and then you look back to -- >> Yeah, even

00:16:19 ◼   ► that. Started slower than you think. >> Right. And then you look back to like -- >> That's

00:16:22 ◼   ► worked out pretty well as well. >> When Tim Berners-Lee invented it and it's

00:16:27 ◼   ► like, oh, no, there was like a five-year stretch there where I was still using Gopher. >> Originally

00:16:32 ◼   ► had to buy a next machine in order to do the web. So the market was contained for a while

00:16:37 ◼   ► there. >> But I'll tell you what, we're psyched over how many apps we already have for Vision

00:16:40 ◼   ► Pro. We have over 2,000 native apps already. We had over 1,000 just in the first few days,

00:16:46 ◼   ► which was faster start than even we had for the original app store. And let's not forget,

00:16:51 ◼   ► we have a million and a half compatible apps. So there's a lot of things you could do with

00:16:54 ◼   ► it even today, even as we're, as you said, building a platform. So it's pretty exciting.

00:17:07 ◼   ► >> One of the themes I thought for this show and talking about Vision OS and the platform

00:17:17 ◼   ► is just the word patience. And I think that Apple as a company has institutional patience

00:17:25 ◼   ► that other companies in the field don't have. For example, I can think of a company that

00:17:35 ◼   ► was also in the AR/VR space and even renamed themselves after, I can't remember the word.

00:17:49 ◼   ► What was the word? >> I don't know. I don't say the word, you

00:17:56 ◼   ► know that. >> That was a trap. Because you told Joanna

00:18:04 ◼   ► Stern when she asked you what you thought of the metaverse, your answer was.

00:18:10 ◼   ► >> I would never, ever use that term. >> A word I would never say.

00:18:13 ◼   ► >> A word I will never say. And you tried to trick me right here.

00:18:19 ◼   ► >> But that, you know, seemingly has lost interest in the metaverse in favor of AI and

00:18:26 ◼   ► it's the new, you know, it's the hot new thing, chasing the hot new thing and then another

00:18:30 ◼   ► hot new thing and then you chase it. Whereas Apple, you know, there was the sometime in

00:18:39 ◼   ► the last decade, a thousand no's forever yes. But that when you guys get to a yes, you stick

00:18:48 ◼   ► with it. And I think, you know, four months into a platform is very early to judge the

00:18:55 ◼   ► long term prospects of it. >> We agree.

00:19:02 ◼   ► >> I thought that the other -- >> That was really well said, John.

00:19:06 ◼   ► >> WWDC is a developers conference, but I thought that some of the news yesterday about

00:19:13 ◼   ► vision was it's -- if you expand developers to creative people, it was creating content

00:19:22 ◼   ► for vision pro with partnerships, with cannon making a new lens with two elements so that

00:19:29 ◼   ► you can get stereo right from one lens and a camera system. A partnership with black

00:19:35 ◼   ► magic. Again, production tools for creating immersive content. And that to me is where

00:19:44 ◼   ► Apple is. Where Apple has always been is creating these platforms for creative people to make

00:19:51 ◼   ► the things. So I'm curious what else you see coming soon for vision and vision OS.

00:19:58 ◼   ► >> Well, let me just maybe even kind of build on that because that was probably one of the

00:20:01 ◼   ► biggest questions we got from creatives and film makers was I want to be able to do this.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Because once you see a movie, you know, even a 2D movie, it looks amazing. You see a 3D

00:20:13 ◼   ► movie, it looks even better. It's kind of like, you know, you've heard some of these

00:20:18 ◼   ► directors saying this is the way they always envision a 3D movie to be experienced is how

00:20:23 ◼   ► it was in vision pro. And then when you see the immersive video we did, it's like being

00:20:27 ◼   ► there. And of course, the film makers realizing this feels like the future, right? This feels

00:20:32 ◼   ► like the way you want to experience those things. They want to go out and create their

00:20:34 ◼   ► own stuff. So it was a big push for us to go out and work with, you know, the cannons,

00:20:40 ◼   ► the black magics to be able to say let's enable an ecosystem because also as part of building

00:20:44 ◼   ► a platform, you know, is an ecosystem, right? An ecosystem of content providers, app providers,

00:20:50 ◼   ► the whole works. So that was a big deal for us. So it's coming along.

00:20:53 ◼   ► >> All right. Moving on. Time is ticking. iOS opened up with --

00:21:03 ◼   ► [ Laughter ]

00:21:05 ◼   ► >> We agreed. Yeah.

00:21:06 ◼   ► >> Home screen customization. Apparently it takes 18 revisions to get to the point where

00:21:15 ◼   ► you can arrange icons. Where you want -- can you speak to the engineering challenges?

00:21:24 ◼   ► [ Laughter ]

00:21:25 ◼   ► >> You talked earlier, John, about patience. You got to wait, you know, pick your moments.

00:21:38 ◼   ► We thought 18 years is about the right moment to move an icon from the top down to the bottom.

00:21:48 ◼   ► >> It felt worth it to me. >> We did it.

00:21:53 ◼   ► [ Applause ]

00:21:57 ◼   ► >> There were actually developers that were born. We had to wait until they could mature

00:22:04 ◼   ► and join Apple and finish the project. We got to do it.

00:22:13 ◼   ► >> It's for the kids. >> You need to save a win for the next generation.

00:22:20 ◼   ► >> I think -- and I know we have very serious, very complicated, very serious computer science

00:22:26 ◼   ► topics to talk about tonight. But I do think -- I think it was a very fun and going to

00:22:34 ◼   ► be beloved feature in addition to being able to arrange the icons where you want, but being

00:22:40 ◼   ► able to customize the look and flipping to dark mode, I never thought of it before, but

00:22:46 ◼   ► I thought, boy, these icons -- I know dark mode is super duper popular, but it never

00:22:50 ◼   ► really had occurred to me before that the icons don't change in dark mode, and now they

00:22:54 ◼   ► do, and they do look really cool. But I think even cooler than that is the customization

00:23:00 ◼   ► you can do where you can pick these color tints and you can make it your own. Like the

00:23:04 ◼   ► example in the keynote was very, very vibrant, like a vibrant electric yellow, and it themed

00:23:09 ◼   ► all the things. My two thoughts on that are it takes me back to being when I first got

00:23:16 ◼   ► a Mac, and what did I do in the early '90s when I first got a Mac is I sat there and

00:23:21 ◼   ► dicked around in ResEdit customizing my icons and making -- ResEdit.

00:23:26 ◼   ► >> ResEdit. We loved ResEdit. >> And remember, folder icon maker, folder

00:23:33 ◼   ► icon maker was this great utility where if you wanted to make a folder for all of your

00:23:37 ◼   ► Photoshop files, you would drop Photoshop's icon on folder icon maker, and it would spit

00:23:44 ◼   ► out a folder icon with Photoshop's icon on the folder. Well, I thought my computer was

00:23:50 ◼   ► way better than anybody else's because my files were organized in folders that had the

00:23:55 ◼   ► icon of the app. I spent a lot of time on that. But a couple of years ago with shortcuts,

00:24:02 ◼   ► what I saw -- and my son really got into it and made this customized home screen where

00:24:07 ◼   ► all of his icons -- and it was sort of a three or four step process where you make a shortcut,

00:24:11 ◼   ► and the shortcut just opens the app, but then you can assign a custom icon to the shortcut

00:24:16 ◼   ► so it looks like you're tapping the app and it just jumps you into the app. You spend

00:24:23 ◼   ► some time, make a whole home screen of black and white icons, monochromatic, and then if

00:24:28 ◼   ► the mood hits you like, "I wish they were all blue," well, then you got to start all

00:24:32 ◼   ► over and do them all over again. Now you've made a feature where, you know, I think that's

00:24:37 ◼   ► great that you guys spend time on that because people love to customize.

00:24:41 ◼   ► >> I am glad, though, that you were able to pass that legacy on to your son. Had we made

00:24:48 ◼   ► it too easy, his critical step in his maturation would have missed it, and now he's stronger

00:24:53 ◼   ► for it.

00:24:56 ◼   ► >> But do you see that as a people pleasing, like, yes, people are going to love this feature?

00:25:01 ◼   ► >> Yeah, 100%. When we shipped iOS 14 with widgets and, you know, things went nuts. I

00:25:08 ◼   ► mean, just even the number of people becoming developers to download the beta on that first

00:25:16 ◼   ► release because --

00:25:17 ◼   ► >> It's true.

00:25:19 ◼   ► >> And I think it had really gone viral on social media with people sharing what they

00:25:24 ◼   ► were doing to their screens and it created this incredible enthusiasm. So, you know,

00:25:31 ◼   ► we waited four more years and then we did something about it.

00:25:35 ◼   ► >> Patience.

00:25:36 ◼   ► >> Patience. That is one of the nice themes I'm told.

00:25:39 ◼   ► >> But, you know, I think that at times, I mean, you guys are -- Apple is very famously

00:25:45 ◼   ► known for its design strength and, you know, you buy Apple products because they are well

00:25:53 ◼   ► designed and they are designed by Apple designers, but it's not, oh, here's how we want your

00:25:58 ◼   ► iPhone to look. Your iPhone is going to look just like the ones in the Apple store with

00:26:03 ◼   ► our wallpaper and our arrangement and, no, I mean, this is -- your iPhone can look like

00:26:09 ◼   ► your iPhone.

00:26:11 ◼   ► >> I think that's true. I think the design team has really wanted to -- I mean, when

00:26:15 ◼   ► you build a new product, I think you do want to agree to establish a kind of shared reality

00:26:20 ◼   ► and identity for that product and we certainly did that pretty thoroughly with iPhone. But

00:26:27 ◼   ► then there becomes a point where you want to let everybody make it their own, but you

00:26:33 ◼   ► still want it to be their own iPhone. And I think we've found the balance between your

00:26:38 ◼   ► -- even as you do all of this customization of your home screen, of your lock screen,

00:26:43 ◼   ► we did a bunch of work there, they are very much your own, but they're still very much

00:26:48 ◼   ► iPhone and I think that's where we've tried to find the balance and I think this year

00:26:52 ◼   ► we pushed that frontier a little further and I think people are really going to enjoy it.

00:26:58 ◼   ► >> I would say the biggest upgrade to control center since control center was added, where

00:27:03 ◼   ► control center now is almost like a mini environment within itself with third party APIs for controls,

00:27:18 ◼   ► including all the way back to the lock screen where you can -- previously it's like you

00:27:22 ◼   ► can get the flashlight or the camera or you can get the flashlight and the camera. And

00:27:28 ◼   ► now you can fill those spots with anything you want, including from third party apps

00:27:33 ◼   ► who can make their own controls for those spots.

00:27:37 ◼   ► >> Do you think it's a member of the control center engineering team out there?

00:27:44 ◼   ► >> Either way. We absolutely -- we started to see even with the action button on the

00:27:51 ◼   ► iPhone, like a lot of enthusiasm for people to run custom actions, sometimes they were

00:28:01 ◼   ► of course using shortcuts as a means to do that. And so the idea of making controls really

00:28:08 ◼   ► kind of a universal concept in the system, letting you of course tie them to the action

00:28:12 ◼   ► button, but also put them in control center and then that naturally became okay, well

00:28:16 ◼   ► you're going to want to customize control center and a lot of ways to do that. You might

00:28:19 ◼   ► have more of them, so you might want multiple pages of control center. And then the biggest

00:28:25 ◼   ► leap, those two sacred buttons, ever since iPhone 10 down at the bottom of the screen,

00:28:31 ◼   ► to allow those to be customized was a big step for us to take. But it opens up a lot

00:28:39 ◼   ► of power. And the other thing we did many years ago, you might remember, control center

00:28:43 ◼   ► had a brief moment with pagination. There was a time where it was side scrolling and

00:28:50 ◼   ► that design had the property that it was guaranteed that every time you went to control center

00:28:53 ◼   ► it was on the last page you were on that wasn't the page you wanted to use next. So we backed

00:28:59 ◼   ► off from that and created an all in one design. For this one, of course we preserved the ability

00:29:05 ◼   ► to have a really full featured main page if you want, but also we created a gesture so

00:29:11 ◼   ► you can just pull down and get right to the page you want in one step. And we thought

00:29:16 ◼   ► that was super important to make it browsable, but also essentially instantly navigable as

00:29:21 ◼   ► you build new pages. And so I think people are going to have a lot of fun with that.

00:29:26 ◼   ► And I think developers now just exposing more and more of their capability as actions and

00:29:32 ◼   ► giving users so many different ways to tap into that, whether it's from the shortcuts

00:29:35 ◼   ► app or from control center or these other action buttons are great. And as we'll talk

00:29:40 ◼   ► about later, the intense framework that is actually the way they express actions has

00:29:44 ◼   ► other side benefits in other parts of the system.

00:29:47 ◼   ► >> You say we'll talk later, but I know you haven't looked at my notes here. You said

00:29:52 ◼   ► we were going to talk about the show in order. So I'm just figuring. You're a thorough man.

00:29:57 ◼   ► You'll get us there eventually.

00:29:58 ◼   ► >> All right. Here's a feature that I think kind of flew by in the keynote, but it really

00:30:02 ◼   ► caught my eye, and it's the new setup accessories API.

00:30:06 ◼   ► >> Whoa!

00:30:07 ◼   ► >> I definitely remember the team.

00:30:08 ◼   ► >> We now know where every -- by the end of this we're going to have a map of where everybody

00:30:17 ◼   ► works.

00:30:18 ◼   ► >> We can call out different groups.

00:30:19 ◼   ► >> Webkit.

00:30:20 ◼   ► >> But I would say that this -- you -- in the keynote it was presented as solving the

00:30:30 ◼   ► following problem. It's just when you buy certain third-party peripherals that say use

00:30:35 ◼   ► Bluetooth or want to get on Wi-Fi, and when you're setting them up, they would ask to

00:30:41 ◼   ► use Bluetooth, which brings up a system prompt, and it would say this wants to use Bluetooth

00:30:47 ◼   ► and the explanation text would be like it wants to connect to certain things or something

00:30:52 ◼   ► like that. And it's like allow or don't allow. And it's like, well, I don't even -- I have

00:30:57 ◼   ► no idea why this thing I bought wants to connect to Bluetooth. What am I doing? It's very confusing.

00:31:01 ◼   ► I guess allow it. I bought the thing. And this solves it by presenting it in a very,

00:31:09 ◼   ► you know, pretty much using the framework of the way that you pair AirPods.

00:31:15 ◼   ► >> Yeah, I mean, this is one of the cases where providing the better user experience

00:31:21 ◼   ► and a more private one were hand in hand. And, you know, it is the case today or prior

00:31:27 ◼   ► to yesterday, I guess, that when you set up that accessory, if you felt comfortable proceeding

00:31:35 ◼   ► and you set up your drone or whatever it was, that app still had open-ended access to Bluetooth

00:31:41 ◼   ► or Wi-Fi or whatever, and so you don't know what kind of signature it's gathering of discovering

00:31:46 ◼   ► nearby devices and so forth, and you probably didn't go back afterwards and take that permission

00:31:52 ◼   ► away and maybe the app even still needed it. So we've really focused over the years, we've

00:31:57 ◼   ► seen this on feature after feature where we've made the granting of access very clear and

00:32:05 ◼   ► specific and well scoped. And you saw that this year also with contacts because, you

00:32:10 ◼   ► know, today you'd have an app, maybe you want to do some messaging with it or something,

00:32:14 ◼   ► and it says, all right, this app wants access to your contacts in order to give you maybe

00:32:18 ◼   ► convenient autocomplete as you're typing a name or something. Convenient autocomplete,

00:32:26 ◼   ► yes, we found that engineer. So, but what did you do? I mean, you just gave him like

00:32:33 ◼   ► the full history of your contacts, present and future, out of which we've seen a history

00:32:38 ◼   ► of people kind of hoovering that up and using it to build a social graph on their servers

00:32:42 ◼   ► and all sorts of things. And so now that's locked down. But one thing we weren't able

00:32:47 ◼   ► to really cover in great detail in the keynote is that we've given apps a great out of process

00:32:54 ◼   ► API for if you're typing in that app, trying to type a completion, there's a way that they

00:32:59 ◼   ► can surface in their own search UI without seeing the contact they're surfacing, surface

00:33:03 ◼   ► a match that we get out of your contacts so then you can grant access one at a time. So

00:33:08 ◼   ► this this gives you the same kind of convenience you want without just opening the kimono on

00:33:12 ◼   ► all your some of the most sensitive data. Right. So it's out of process. That was a

00:33:16 ◼   ► graphical image. kimono closed. And there's also a thing that didn't make the keynote,

00:33:24 ◼   ► which is to use the new setup accessories. It's a new API. So peripheral makers, the

00:33:32 ◼   ► people who make the apps for those peripherals that are on their phone that asked for the

00:33:36 ◼   ► permission have to opt into this. I think they're going to want to because it's such

00:33:39 ◼   ► a nicer experience. But if they stick with the older one, those dialogues saying the

00:33:45 ◼   ► older one saying this app wants to access Bluetooth have been expanded to show you,

00:33:52 ◼   ► oh, well, if you before you say allow or don't allow, here are all the Bluetooth things that

00:33:59 ◼   ► are in your network right now that you would be telling this app that you have or if it's

00:34:05 ◼   ► Wi Fi, here's all the devices and in my house, it's an awful lot of devices are on the Wi

00:34:10 ◼   ► Fi. But that's really, really just just fantastic. Because I think those those dialogues before

00:34:17 ◼   ► like I have no idea what it's going to I don't really feel comfortable giving this access

00:34:22 ◼   ► to this app. I don't know why it wants us but I don't even know what it would see. Now

00:34:25 ◼   ► it shows you what it would see. Yeah, these these dialogues. It was started with location

00:34:31 ◼   ► where you need some text in your location, you didn't quite get a visceral sense of what

00:34:35 ◼   ► that meant. And so we started showing you on a map what you were giving them. And then

00:34:40 ◼   ► if you gave app apps location over the long term, we remind you we still do remind you

00:34:46 ◼   ► and kind of show you where you've been right as well to give this sense just at a glance

00:34:50 ◼   ► visually like this is what you've been handing over. This is what you're going to be handing

00:34:54 ◼   ► over. And I think that's a critical design problem. How do you convey the concept of

00:34:59 ◼   ► sharing because a little bit of explanatory explanatory text, you know, doesn't doesn't

00:35:05 ◼   ► come close to giving like that picture or that real world sample of all your devices

00:35:10 ◼   ► and so forth. And so that that's been a big piece of work for us over the last several

00:35:13 ◼   ► years. Now, the other problem I see this solves is the accusation that okay, AirPods get a

00:35:22 ◼   ► really slick pairing UI because Apple makes AirPods and Apple makes the iPhone and you

00:35:30 ◼   ► get this really beautiful UI. What about third parties? Well, sure. And and the pattern that

00:35:39 ◼   ► I see, but here's the pattern that I see there's a problem. The problem is it's really hard

00:35:43 ◼   ► to pair wireless ear ear pods with a device. Yeah. To Apple solves the problem with a really

00:35:50 ◼   ► clever solution. Three, Apple creates API's using that same thing so that anybody can

00:35:58 ◼   ► do the same thing that Apple does with it. Apple sounds pretty great. But in between

00:36:05 ◼   ► step two and three is patience. That's one of our themes. But is the virtue. But is that

00:36:13 ◼   ► what do you say to someone who says that it should ship as a public API right away? Like

00:36:17 ◼   ► the day AirPods dropped, that should have been an API that any other company that makes

00:36:23 ◼   ► headphones could have used? Well, I think a lot of where where our ability to to innovate

00:36:30 ◼   ► comes is from our ability to rapidly try things out, some of which don't work, some of which

00:36:37 ◼   ► we need to get out there and learn and perfect before they become API API is a contract virtually

00:36:49 ◼   ► written in blood like people then depend on it. We are then signing up to support it,

00:36:55 ◼   ► keep it working well over time and getting to the right API. I think any any developer

00:37:01 ◼   ► here who knows, you know, you put something together for use inside your app. That's one

00:37:05 ◼   ► thing. Getting exactly the right abstractions, the right contract that you want to live with

00:37:11 ◼   ► and support for the decades is a whole different exercise. And so the practice of we have teams

00:37:19 ◼   ► internally that, you know, live on if you're any team shipping software with the operating

00:37:24 ◼   ► system, you're taking the pain of living on a lot of work in progress that are us different

00:37:32 ◼   ► teams at Apple trying out new framework APIs and designs and you're riding that crazy wave

00:37:38 ◼   ► and taking in, you know, a lot of the pain of doing that also that we can then produce

00:37:45 ◼   ► hopefully an API for others that has been perfected through through that process. And

00:37:51 ◼   ► I think that's that's a virtuous cycle for us to be able to perfect it and then and then

00:37:56 ◼   ► scale it out. And so do you think people out there need a little more patience? And yes,

00:38:05 ◼   ► absolutely. Speaking of patience, speak to me about the engineering challenges of bringing

00:38:15 ◼   ► color to tap backs. It was a lot more than color this time. That may not have been an

00:38:31 ◼   ► engineering issue. That might be the best answer you've ever ever. There is a lot of

00:38:49 ◼   ► cool stuff in messages, but I'm going to move on to photos and photos for both iOS and iPad

00:39:03 ◼   ► OS has it's very familiar when you launch it. It is a very it's a significant new version.

00:39:12 ◼   ► But when I heard that the tab bar at the bottom was eliminated, I have to admit I wasn't.

00:39:18 ◼   ► That seems like the wrong way to go. It seems like, oh, here's a list of photos. And now

00:39:25 ◼   ► a new version. We've added a tab bar at the bottom to organize. But then I saw it and

00:39:30 ◼   ► I realized and then I took out I saw iOS 18 photos and then I took out my phone still

00:39:36 ◼   ► running iOS 17 and I realized I don't really use that tab bar. I'm always in library. And

00:39:43 ◼   ► what are the what were those tabs for? They were for things like albums and stuff, which

00:39:48 ◼   ► you manually create and put things in or manually defined smart albums on the Mac or something

00:39:53 ◼   ► like that. But that you the user sit there and spend time on a Saturday afternoon organizing

00:39:59 ◼   ► and not necessarily the replacement. But the next step in iOS 18 and iPad or in all the

00:40:06 ◼   ► platforms and photos is using machine learning even more to automatically categorize your

00:40:13 ◼   ► photos into things like trips or groups or what other ways is machine learning organizing

00:40:22 ◼   ► your tens of thousands of photos for you?

00:40:25 ◼   ► >> Yeah, so well, one of my favorites now, you know, last year we did pets, which was

00:40:32 ◼   ► pretty great. But now we even do like groups of people. So because if you analyze the graph

00:40:38 ◼   ► of photos and who appears with whom, you'll find things like in my library also, you know,

00:40:44 ◼   ► me and my spouse, me and my best friend, me and the whole family together, these like

00:40:50 ◼   ► collections you're very often looking for exactly those those kinds of photos, right?

00:40:55 ◼   ► Not just of a single person, but of groups being together or another big one is trips,

00:41:00 ◼   ► right? Which are not just someday or some moment, but a extended period where you were

00:41:07 ◼   ► away and certain kind of photos and it's amazing. Just turns out we can do an extremely good

00:41:13 ◼   ► job of finding trips, finding the best photos of those trips and it creates a really just

00:41:20 ◼   ► compelling way to look back. But I think that design point about the tabs, this was one

00:41:28 ◼   ► that we worked on a long time. In fact, this was one where we were building it, you know,

00:41:34 ◼   ► design was doing incredible work. We were building prototypes. We were living on them.

00:41:39 ◼   ► We had patience. It was a whole year where we were thinking of shipping it. And then

00:41:43 ◼   ► we said, you know, we don't quite have it right yet. And we kept we kept iterating on

00:41:47 ◼   ► it to get it to get it right. And I think that the team did just amazing work to do

00:41:51 ◼   ► that. But part of what we realized is for many users, this is true across a lot of apps

00:41:57 ◼   ► on the phone. They have tabs, but you only use one of them, you know, and you forget

00:42:03 ◼   ► about the rest. And again, almost like that pagination of the original control center.

00:42:13 ◼   ► If you ever left photos on the other tab, you probably next time you came back, it was

00:42:16 ◼   ► in the wrong place. And we had this great area called for you. That was a tab that you

00:42:21 ◼   ► probably rarely went to unless maybe you clicked on a widget or something and it took you in

00:42:25 ◼   ► there. And yet that was where all of this organization actually had been building up

00:42:29 ◼   ► and happening over time. And it was like this hidden gem that we didn't have the right way

00:42:34 ◼   ► to make it accessible. And we finally found the design that said, if you're trying to

00:42:38 ◼   ► get at the grid, your most recent photos, there it is, it's effortless. It's just as

00:42:42 ◼   ► it was before. You want to see these organized collections. Well, they're right there to

00:42:47 ◼   ► each of them just as accessible as the other. I think it really came together to be interesting

00:42:51 ◼   ► to see how much whether third parties pick up this pattern or not for other kinds of

00:42:57 ◼   ► apps, because I think it's come together really, really nicely. Off the top of my head, I think

00:43:04 ◼   ► photos is the app that just broadly almost almost everybody, it's almost the odd user

00:43:11 ◼   ► who doesn't have a large collection of photos in their library. It's for very typical users.

00:43:18 ◼   ► And at the scale of your platforms, we're talking what, like a billion people? We have

00:43:25 ◼   ► over a billion users. That's correct. Over 1%. Over 1%. It's worked out all right. But

00:43:34 ◼   ► like, I have lots and lots of, I don't know, probably 100,000s of emails, most of them

00:43:40 ◼   ► unread still. But everybody has lots of email, but most people tend to live at the top of

00:43:46 ◼   ► their inbox at the new email. But photos is a thing where the stuff that's in there, you

00:43:52 ◼   ► know, if you have 50,000 photos in your library, if you go back 40,000 photos, if anything,

00:43:59 ◼   ► they might be more valuable to you, right than the most recent ones. You can take a

00:44:03 ◼   ► new picture. If I lost my last week of photos, I can take a picture of my family from the

00:44:08 ◼   ► last week and they look the same. I can't lose a photo. But you know what I mean? I

00:44:14 ◼   ► mean, I think it's very true. It's the one thing that everybody has in their lives where

00:44:19 ◼   ► it's a massive amount of data and what are you going to do with it? And this is where

00:44:24 ◼   ► machine learning, I think, it's just a step change in exposing this and changing the way

00:44:31 ◼   ► people deal with their photo libraries. Well, and you took the photos for a reason,

00:44:36 ◼   ► right? And you want to go back and enjoy them. And I think the team's done an amazing job

00:44:39 ◼   ► with everything from the photo widget to this redesign to exposing those things. I mean,

00:44:45 ◼   ► how many times do you get those photos and you're like, oh, my God, this is amazing.

00:44:47 ◼   ► And you share it, right? You go share it back with your family. It's like, that's why we

00:44:53 ◼   ► take pictures. We want to enjoy them. Yeah, I don't know about the Gruber household

00:44:58 ◼   ► when you were growing up, but in my household, I don't know, there were maybe four photos

00:45:03 ◼   ► taken of us per year. Like every few years, one of them made it up onto the mantle or

00:45:11 ◼   ► something like that. And growing up, those are like the only photos. My self-conception

00:45:16 ◼   ► is rooted in like handful of couple of photos. And now, my kids live in an entirely different

00:45:23 ◼   ► world where not only are we taking photos constantly, but now these, like the widgets

00:45:29 ◼   ► on my desktop are constantly picking great photos of them at different times of their

00:45:33 ◼   ► lives. And then I click on them and then I'm texting them every day with some photo of

00:45:37 ◼   ► them. Look at this, you used to look like this. I don't know what I'm doing to them,

00:45:43 ◼   ► but it's different at least. And I'm sure it's good. I'm sure it's all psychologically.

00:45:51 ◼   ► But it really couldn't do these things without machine learning.

00:45:54 ◼   ► No, no way. Yeah. I mean, if we were just picking photos at random, you'd get lots of

00:45:59 ◼   ► screenshots, whiteboards, receipts. It'd be great. Look at this. Yeah.

00:46:04 ◼   ► And I mentioned mail. Mail very similarly has a very nice machine learning updates this

00:46:10 ◼   ► year with things like categorization of your incoming mail. These are where things like

00:46:16 ◼   ► receipts go. These are things you subscribe to a bunch of newsletters. They go somewhere

00:46:20 ◼   ► else and it leaves your inbox for actual email from actual people trying to get to you. I

00:46:28 ◼   ► thought one of the cleverest little things was the, I think it was almost a throwaway

00:46:32 ◼   ► line in the keynote that, hey, maybe the first two lines of an email are not the best way

00:46:38 ◼   ► to understand what the email is about. Use machine learning to summarize the email. And

00:46:45 ◼   ► if you're only going to have, you know, it's a row of your inbox and you only get two or

00:46:48 ◼   ► three lines of text. Let AI give a summary. It's got to be better than the first two lines

00:46:52 ◼   ► that like PR people send me, right? It's life. Oh, PR people out there. But not your emails.

00:47:04 ◼   ► I'm talking about other PR people. I get these, these messages and they used to say, you know,

00:47:10 ◼   ► uh, Craig, you know, I love Apple so much and then you, whatever. And then now it's

00:47:15 ◼   ► just for me. Now it just says wants free iPhone. That's right through it. That's also for me.

00:47:30 ◼   ► But photos, like I said, I think, I don't know, do you guys know like what is the average

00:47:37 ◼   ► photo library size? I don't know if you guys even collect that. I don't know. But we know

00:47:43 ◼   ► more pictures are taken with an iPhone than any other camera in the world. Anecdotally,

00:47:48 ◼   ► I think, you know, very, very typically tens of thousands, lots, lots and lots, lots of

00:47:53 ◼   ► lots. Everybody uses email, right? It is, you know, for better or for worse, it is,

00:47:58 ◼   ► you know, it's part of the glue. Lots of people are age choosing. Yeah. I was gonna say it's

00:48:02 ◼   ► an age thing. Once, once, once people get jobs, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. For that,

00:48:09 ◼   ► for that, some other apps that I don't, there may be some others. Yes. So you're saying

00:48:13 ◼   ► those young engineers who got the home screen to have icons for everyone and don't answer

00:48:17 ◼   ► their emails. Not on the home screen. Yes. But these are very practical apps that people

00:48:27 ◼   ► use very widely and machine learning is making things they actually do better or making it

00:48:35 ◼   ► so they do the things way less time like skipping the wants free iPhone, iPhone email. I mean,

00:48:44 ◼   ► that's a, that is probably a theme that I'm glad you picked up from, from our event. I

00:48:50 ◼   ► mean, I think it's a theme from Apple over many years now that in many cases you didn't

00:48:58 ◼   ► need to think about how we're doing it. Is it machine learning? Why does this camera

00:49:03 ◼   ► take a good photo? Why is photos building me a nice memory? How is it surfacing a photo

00:49:11 ◼   ► I actually care about? Yeah, there was a lot of powerful machine learning happening behind

00:49:15 ◼   ► that all along, but the key is what is it doing for you? Right. Watch OS. I think a

00:49:20 ◼   ► flagship feature of the new version of watch OS is the machine learning powered update

00:49:26 ◼   ► to the photos face, which is doing similar things like, Hey, not just this is a good

00:49:33 ◼   ► photo of a person I think you would like on your watch, but it's also one that's framed

00:49:40 ◼   ► well for Apple watch and with machine learning. Here's where we think the numerals for the

00:49:46 ◼   ► time could go and would fit and works. And I played with it in a demo and it's like,

00:49:53 ◼   ► yeah, this is like, these things look designed, they look like posters. Yeah. But where does

00:49:59 ◼   ► that are you guys frustrated or you guys just don't care that these features are in the

00:50:04 ◼   ► works with amidst this narrative of Apple is behind on artificial intelligence and all

00:50:11 ◼   ► of this whiz bang new intelligent software features. Well, we've been doing machine learning

00:50:18 ◼   ► and AI. You know, you've heard me say it for so many years. We didn't even call it ML or

00:50:24 ◼   ► AI. We called it proactive. If you remember, we're doing proactive features. We're doing

00:50:29 ◼   ► this stuff for a long time. We've been building neural engines for seven years now, I think,

00:50:33 ◼   ► to help us do AI and ML on devices. So we've been at this a long time. Well, I mean, that

00:50:40 ◼   ► has that's been the funny bit now with the AI PC. It's like someone discovered the idea

00:50:54 ◼   ► of a neural engine this year. A neural processing unit. Nothing like what we've done.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Yeah. So, so obviously, you know, from, from, you know, phone phones for, for many years

00:51:10 ◼   ► and you know, the first M one Mac and we introduced in 2020 and every Mac we've introduced since

00:51:16 ◼   ► I guess we missed the boat to name it an AI PC because we've been making great ones this

00:51:21 ◼   ► this whole time. But you know, that's not the point. They're great Macs.

00:51:27 ◼   ► Starling right from iOS into iPad OS. And I think this year it's particularly blurred

00:51:36 ◼   ► distinction because maybe there's some minor exceptions, but it seems like with the tent

00:51:42 ◼   ► pole features, it's feature parody on iOS and iPad OS with like, for example, when lock

00:51:49 ◼   ► screen customization first came to iPhone, it came to iPad one year later. Yeah. The

00:51:56 ◼   ► things we've already been talking about moving icons around, tinting your icons, getting

00:52:01 ◼   ► dark mode icons, iPad OS 18, the troll center. Yeah. Yeah. New photos app. Yeah. We were,

00:52:07 ◼   ► we were able to do them in sync this year, which is great. And then of course we added

00:52:13 ◼   ► on you know, one, one particular app this year.

00:52:20 ◼   ► Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience for your theme. Patience. Finally, calculator

00:52:31 ◼   ► for iPad. Yes.

00:52:38 ◼   ► Was your strategy to hold back on a calculator for iPad so that when you did it, we would

00:52:45 ◼   ► get this sort of reaction. We wanted you to really, I mean, could you imagine all

00:52:50 ◼   ► the, the adulation we would have given up had we actually shipped it right out the gates?

00:52:54 ◼   ► You know, when I first came out, would anyone have cheered? No, no, no. You hold it and

00:52:59 ◼   ► hold it and hold it like that dramatic pause. Yeah. I forget if I've previously asked you

00:53:07 ◼   ► about a calculator app for iPad. I know in other interviews I've seen you do, you have

00:53:12 ◼   ► been asked about it all the time. I mean, truly all the time. We did the big iPad introduction,

00:53:16 ◼   ► you know, in early May and I was still getting asked, do you guys do a calculator? You know,

00:53:24 ◼   ► I'm like, patience. That must've been hard in May. Oh, it was. It was. But one of your

00:53:31 ◼   ► answers when you would be asked your sort of non-answer answer was, well, what would

00:53:36 ◼   ► we bring to a calculator on a bigger screen? Turned out to be true. You did bring something

00:53:43 ◼   ► with math notes. Yeah. I mean, it was a real answer at the time, which is we, we really,

00:53:52 ◼   ► I mean, obviously it was straightforward if we wanted to bring a blown up iPhone style

00:53:57 ◼   ► calculator to the iPad. But we really felt that we wanted to do something more and different

00:54:04 ◼   ► and uniquely iPad when we did it. And we, you know, we really found the moment for a

00:54:11 ◼   ► lot of things to come together this year to do that, to do one that made it meaningful

00:54:17 ◼   ► for iPad. And so, and I couldn't be happier, I think, and the team with the reception that

00:54:25 ◼   ► all of you gave it at the event. I mean, it was fantastic. And we're obviously really

00:54:31 ◼   ► happy with the work. I think one of the really cool things about doing it with, or with the

00:54:36 ◼   ► pencil integration, which is not the only way to do it. I know in the keynote it was,

00:54:40 ◼   ► it came up in the iPad segment, it's all with the pencil, but it's there on the phone. It's

00:54:46 ◼   ► speaking about feature parody. It's on the Mac. And obviously on the Mac there's no pencil.

00:54:52 ◼   ► You type, you know, you can type Mac too. But I think, but I thought the really interesting

00:54:59 ◼   ► thing about emphasizing with pencil wasn't just finally there's an iPad calculator. It's

00:55:03 ◼   ► that for mathematical notation, the pencil is actually far more natural and expressive

00:55:10 ◼   ► than typing, right? You can't make a square root thing and with a keyboard, you know,

00:55:16 ◼   ► you type SQRT with parentheses. And that's not how math students think of it. Math students

00:55:22 ◼   ► think of it with the notation that they're doing in class. And you just draw it. And

00:55:26 ◼   ► then you're like, oh, I need parentheses. Well, it's a pencil. So you just draw the

00:55:29 ◼   ► pencils around it afterwards, or you draw the parentheses around it afterwards. That's

00:55:32 ◼   ► how I learned it. We agree, John. Yep. Sort of in the same lines, but the Smart Script,

00:55:44 ◼   ► which is the name that's the name for the feature where you're writing and you're handwriting,

00:55:50 ◼   ► and Smart Script will actually make your handwriting better. Yeah. I mean, step one was to learn

00:55:58 ◼   ► your handwriting so that we could both create writing that was consistent with your handwriting

00:56:07 ◼   ► and that we could even sort of build the neatest version of your handwriting that was consistent

00:56:12 ◼   ► with your handwriting style. You know, going back years now, we really had this goal to

00:56:17 ◼   ► how there's so many things that are great about writing with a pencil or pen. And but

00:56:25 ◼   ► there's also so much that's great that's a disjoint set about typing, which is type text.

00:56:30 ◼   ► You know, if you spell check and correct like no problem, it can rewrap that. You want to

00:56:34 ◼   ► insert in the middle? No problem. It can reflow it. You want to copy and paste a section?

00:56:40 ◼   ► You can do that. But of course, when you want to do that with handwriting, those things

00:56:44 ◼   ► aren't really possible unless we can actually generate your handwriting. If you want to

00:56:49 ◼   ► copy paste and move all the words around and change it, or we want to spell check, we have

00:56:52 ◼   ► to rewrite that word for you. And so SmartScript lets us learn your handwriting. And then we're

00:56:59 ◼   ► able to build all these other capabilities to I mean, I don't know if you take notes

00:57:03 ◼   ► with a pencil, I sometimes do. And always I realize like there's a word I want to insert

00:57:09 ◼   ► in the middle there. And then you know, you put an arrow and you scribble some mess up

00:57:12 ◼   ► above it, right? Now you can just move it aside. But of course, that means it has to

00:57:17 ◼   ► rewrap. So now we need to understand the flow of the text and rewrap it. So we're really

00:57:20 ◼   ► trying to bring the best of pencil and the best of type text together and SmartScript

00:57:25 ◼   ► lets us do that. So cool. Yeah. Somewhere out there, there's got to be some very long

00:57:37 ◼   ► term Apple employees who worked on the Newton who were like, Yes, this is what we were going

00:57:44 ◼   ► for. Right. And including scribble to create the gap to say I don't want that word anymore.

00:57:51 ◼   ► scribble, scribble it out, scribble it out, which is one thing I've been missing that

00:57:55 ◼   ► I can remember with my Newton that I missed until now. And now I've got it. Yep, you got

00:58:00 ◼   ► it. There you go. Patience. Patience. So a couple of years ago at WWDC, I think maybe

00:58:10 ◼   ► 2018 I didn't bother looking at it doesn't matter what year but there I think it was

00:58:13 ◼   ► sort of an iconic slide in a keynote was you addressing the sort of conjecture out there

00:58:23 ◼   ► that Apple was in the midst of merging Mac OS and iPad OS. And do you remember the slide

00:58:31 ◼   ► that was very clear slide very simple. No. I really with I believe an anvil drop and

00:58:39 ◼   ► there was I think it was the single biggest biggest letters on a Apple slide. I think

00:58:46 ◼   ► at the time, the conjecture that you were addressing was of the mind that the Mac, which

00:58:57 ◼   ► came out in 1984 is old, and the iPod iPad is new. And that if that was what Apple was

00:59:06 ◼   ► thinking, it was going to be the iPad superseding the Mac is what people thought and you're

00:59:13 ◼   ► like, No. I think we've come around in the six years since and you know, with the new

00:59:21 ◼   ► iPads that came out a month ago, and in re up this sort of mentality of, oh, you're calling

00:59:30 ◼   ► these iPad pros, but I can't do my professional work on them. You should let me do boot my

00:59:38 ◼   ► iPad into Mac OS or why don't you bring app kit and Mac OS to iPads. And I kind of feel

00:59:48 ◼   ► like we're heading towards another No. But I tried to write about it but looking for

00:59:57 ◼   ► the answer. I've pontificated along similar lines of that of my not necessarily frustration,

01:00:06 ◼   ► but my personal feeling that I'm far more productive on the Mac than the iPad. But the

01:00:10 ◼   ► light bulb that went off to me is well, the way I deal with that is I just do what I feel

01:00:16 ◼   ► most productive on the Mac on the Mac and let the iPad be the iPad. That's exactly the

01:00:20 ◼   ► right answer. John. They're very different products. They're different design points.

01:00:24 ◼   ► And, you know, iPads great strength is the fact that it's you've heard us say it's a

01:00:29 ◼   ► cliche at this point, it's a magical sheet of glass becomes anything you want it to be.

01:00:33 ◼   ► And it's over a million apps that are designed for the iPad to allow to do incredible things.

01:00:38 ◼   ► And I wouldn't tell somebody who's a procreate artist that they're not doing pro things,

01:00:41 ◼   ► right? They're doing amazing things. And now we have Final Cut Pro, we have Logic Pro,

01:00:45 ◼   ► we have all kinds of incredible apps for it. And the Mac is the Mac. And I don't know,

01:00:51 ◼   ► I don't know why people have wanted for the time that these have existed to want to merge

01:00:56 ◼   ► them together. That's not our that's not our desire to still big fat No. Yeah, I love my

01:01:01 ◼   ► iPad, I probably spend at least as much maybe more time on my iPad doing a whole variety

01:01:08 ◼   ► of things than I do on my Mac. I also love my Mac. I do not want them to become the same

01:01:14 ◼   ► device. I think you have you've used the phrase in the past, maybe that the, you know, Mac

01:01:21 ◼   ► is heavy so that iPad can be light or something like that. And I don't think Mac is heavy.

01:01:27 ◼   ► I think the Mac is awesome. But, but I think I think you're right. And I think you're years

01:01:34 ◼   ► ago wise man talked about kind of cars and trucks. And and I think I was I was honestly

01:01:41 ◼   ► bracing myself for another wave of this, not at this particular forum, but of this sentiment

01:01:48 ◼   ► when we were about to release the the iPad with an incredible M4 in it. Because there's

01:01:55 ◼   ► a mindset out there that says, Okay, you took this incredible powerful V8 engine that powers

01:02:03 ◼   ► this truck that I use to tow my boat, and you put it in this sports car. Why can't I

01:02:11 ◼   ► haul lumber and a boat with this sports car? And it's like, no, this engine is awesome

01:02:17 ◼   ► in the truck. And it's awesome in the sports car. And and when you use your iPad Pro right

01:02:24 ◼   ► now, it's, it's the best iPad experience you can ever imagine. And that's worth a lot to

01:02:31 ◼   ► to a lot of people. I mean, that is that is a great experience. And we want to keep making

01:02:35 ◼   ► iPad, the best iPad it can be we are not trying to create a Windows 8, PC or whatever.

01:02:50 ◼   ► Moving on to Mac OS Sequoia. A I can't every time I see Sequoia, I cannot help but note

01:02:56 ◼   ► that it has all five vowels. Wow. Wow. And achievement. I think I play too much wordle.

01:03:10 ◼   ► I think it looks like well, that's cool. But big deal. I think it's like a game changer.

01:03:16 ◼   ► I'm really like it's like a light bulb went off in my head. Like I think I'm going to

01:03:20 ◼   ► use this all the time with the new continuity feature where you can get iPhone mirroring

01:03:23 ◼   ► on Mac. Yeah. Is that it? It seems like that's harder than it looks. Great low latency connectivity

01:03:42 ◼   ► and discovery and all that is is the magic behind continuity and is always a challenge

01:03:49 ◼   ► to make to make great. But when it works, it's magic. And that's that's why continuity

01:03:54 ◼   ► is magic. But this this is one that many of us and I certainly wanted for a long, a long

01:04:00 ◼   ► time. I use continuity camera all the time. And then my phone is up here. And, you know,

01:04:08 ◼   ► I believe it up there sometimes and then I want to get at it. And now now click boom,

01:04:14 ◼   ► I can, you know, it's it's right there. But there are just so many times when you want

01:04:18 ◼   ► to access your phone, it's on the other side of the house or in your bag. And it's it's

01:04:24 ◼   ► great. And we made the trackpad gesture handling just totally smooth. So manipulating the phone

01:04:31 ◼   ► is really natural. So I think it's great. Apple operates worldwide and. The world is

01:04:41 ◼   ► very wide. And you guys often say Apple complies with the laws around the world as needed on

01:04:54 ◼   ► a per country or, you know, whoever the jurisdiction. Yep. The world's gotten wider in the last

01:05:01 ◼   ► year and flatter. But with the DMA in the EU now in effect. Really. Best stickers out

01:05:19 ◼   ► there. Now we know the attendees from Belgium are sitting. Russell. In general, as Apple

01:05:32 ◼   ► has adjusted the rules, the nature, whether they're technical rules or they are policy

01:05:39 ◼   ► rules like in the app store to adapt to the changing world, to adapt to changing features.

01:05:45 ◼   ► In general, you guys seem to make significant efforts to keep the rules the same everywhere

01:05:55 ◼   ► as much as you can. For example, when you guys came to an agreement with the Japanese

01:06:02 ◼   ► Fair Trade Commission about something, something with reader apps. OK. And we'll just make

01:06:08 ◼   ► this the new rules everywhere. With the DMA compliance, you guys have gone a different

01:06:17 ◼   ► way where, OK, this is what we need to do in the EU. Here is an extensive set of frameworks,

01:06:26 ◼   ► technologies, policies. Trust me, I read it all. It is super extensive. But where what

01:06:35 ◼   ► is your thinking about when to, OK, let's apply these changes everywhere versus, OK,

01:06:43 ◼   ► we're going to keep this as the default everywhere, but we'll do that only when needed. Well,

01:06:48 ◼   ► John, this has been a first of all, it's been a massive effort. A massive effort by a lot

01:06:55 ◼   ► of people at Apple to work to comply to it. As you said, we have to write. We do business

01:07:03 ◼   ► in Europe. We have to comply with the laws there. And as the DMA is written, it's been

01:07:08 ◼   ► a heavy lift. And especially to do that while trying to balance the safety, security, privacy

01:07:17 ◼   ► needs of our users because a lot of these things, as you know, run in opposition to

01:07:22 ◼   ► those. So it's been a heavy lift. And it's only been in effect for three months since

01:07:31 ◼   ► early March. So it's still early days, but we're working hard to try to do what we have

01:07:37 ◼   ► to do there. But it's a tough one. Yeah, I don't think, especially among the technically

01:07:44 ◼   ► savvy among us, many of us in this room have an idea that we all used Macs since even the

01:07:52 ◼   ► pre-internet era. We use them now. And we feel like we know how to keep ourselves safe.

01:08:04 ◼   ► We know there is no battle that is more continuously fought and just a pitched battle than the

01:08:15 ◼   ► one we have around keeping our devices secure and creating an ecosystem where my mom, my

01:08:26 ◼   ► kids, I feel like go ahead and download whatever you want and enjoy your phone. That's not

01:08:35 ◼   ► what we say with the Macs, unfortunately. And that has been such a powerful thing for

01:08:43 ◼   ► our users and such an amazing thing, I think, for the overall community, for developers,

01:08:49 ◼   ► the opportunity it creates when everyone feels like, you know, I want to try that. Oh, I'll

01:08:53 ◼   ► just download it. It works. When we see something that has the threat of imperiling our users

01:09:00 ◼   ► and disrupting the ecosystem that has been so valuable to all of the participants in

01:09:06 ◼   ► that ecosystem, we're going to, where we can, protect our customers. And we've done lots

01:09:15 ◼   ► of very, very hard things in the EU to minimize the damage. But it is no panacea what's being

01:09:24 ◼   ► put on users there. And I think it's underappreciated, and I understand on a technical audience,

01:09:30 ◼   ► why they might think that. I can tell you and from the point of view of our security

01:09:35 ◼   ► teams and those that work on protecting our users, this is a serious issue. And so we're

01:09:43 ◼   ► trying to do the best we can for all the users where we can.

01:09:47 ◼   ► I think it's technically minded. Thank you. I think it's technically minded critics who

01:10:03 ◼   ► don't see things your way, who rolled their eyes and think it's spin and not true, that

01:10:11 ◼   ► you guys hear an overwhelming amount of feedback from users who say, oh, I like my iPhone and

01:10:16 ◼   ► iPad the way they are. I've decided I trust Apple, and I like the idea that everything

01:10:24 ◼   ► going into my phone comes through the App Store, which is vetted by Apple. And I mean,

01:10:31 ◼   ► is that true that there really are people that feedback to us by real users is just

01:10:35 ◼   ► overwhelming in that regard. And look, I think I think look, it's totally valid. Like if

01:10:40 ◼   ► you want an Android phone, go buy it. Right? There is there is choice out there. It's fantastic.

01:10:49 ◼   ► They're so there are options. And by the way, in Europe, I mean, more people have Android

01:10:55 ◼   ► phones than iPhones. So some people, though, say they like the overall ecosystem that Apple

01:11:04 ◼   ► has offered. And our customers there write us extensively. Like, don't let them screw

01:11:08 ◼   ► this up. And so we don't want to let them screw it up.

01:11:19 ◼   ► There's another big topic I want to talk about. But before we get to it, I think I would be

01:11:23 ◼   ► remiss not to mark that this WWDC is the 10 year anniversary of Swift. I guess it's me

01:11:37 ◼   ► getting older and the way time compresses. But I still think of Swift as new. But I did

01:11:43 ◼   ► the math. And when Mac OS 10 10.0 shipped in 2001, do you remember the code name for

01:11:50 ◼   ► 10.0? Which cat? Oh, Jaguar. Cheetah. Cheetah. Very good crack marketing team. When Mac OS

01:12:05 ◼   ► 10.0 shipped, Next was only 13 years old. I know Objective C technically came like 1984,

01:12:13 ◼   ► something like that. But it was sort of known for only 13 years. And here we are 10 years

01:12:17 ◼   ► into Swift. How is this going? I'm very extraordinarily well, and many dimensions.

01:12:25 ◼   ► I mean, when you talk about trying to and you're like, if you can go look around the

01:12:31 ◼   ► industry and see different places where companies have tried to create new languages, very,

01:12:36 ◼   ► very few of them kind of ultimately go anywhere. And Swift was, it has been just a runaway

01:12:46 ◼   ► success for app development on our platform. Right? Just a million app on the App Store.

01:12:52 ◼   ► I'm not sure what the number is. It's an extraordinary number of apps that use Swift. There's a whole

01:12:58 ◼   ► generation of developers now who've come up programming in it. But also many of us who

01:13:06 ◼   ► love and loved Objective C have, yeah, hell yeah, have learned to love and appreciate

01:13:15 ◼   ► all that Swift brings as well. So it's been phenomenally successful.

01:13:20 ◼   ► When we introduced the language, though, our ambition, step one was clearly a great language

01:13:26 ◼   ► for app development on our platform. Right? That was mission number one. But the ambition

01:13:30 ◼   ► for the language was as a general purpose systems programming language. And what's happened

01:13:37 ◼   ► semi-quietly while Swift has continued to be successful as an app programming language

01:13:44 ◼   ► is Apple's adoption and some others as a systems programming language. I mean, now with embedded

01:13:51 ◼   ► Swift we're running Swift in like the secure Enclave processor. We're running Swift on

01:13:57 ◼   ► servers. We're running Swift just all over the, yes, all over the system. And these are

01:14:06 ◼   ► places that historically our only alternative really was C or C++ really. And many of us

01:14:16 ◼   ► grew up programming those languages. They are by design effectively unsecurable. Right?

01:14:24 ◼   ► They have many interesting properties, but they're operating at a pretty low level of

01:14:28 ◼   ► abstraction and are inherently not very safe. And in the world we live in now, having a

01:14:33 ◼   ► programming language be safe as well as ideally expressive, incredibly productive are big

01:14:39 ◼   ► virtues. We've done so much work on Swift to make it great for interoperability, not

01:14:46 ◼   ► just with Objective-C and C, but now also with C++ that we think there's a new era ahead

01:14:54 ◼   ► where the world needs a safe, expressive systems programming language. And we think Swift is

01:15:01 ◼   ► it. The slide I saw in the State of the Union, I wrote it down, Swift is the best choice

01:15:06 ◼   ► to succeed C++. That's the whole slide. And that is the truth. You look at the alternatives

01:15:14 ◼   ► out there, nothing, look, Swift is built by the team that built probably the most popular

01:15:21 ◼   ► C++ compiler in use today in Clang. And Swift is more native to C++ than any of the alternatives

01:15:30 ◼   ► out there. Its ability to call and interoperate with C++. Because this code base, there are

01:15:35 ◼   ► code bases out there that aren't going away overnight. And people are going to continue

01:15:39 ◼   ► to write a lot of C and C++, but people are also going to add a lot onto it where using

01:15:44 ◼   ► a language that can interoperate seamlessly with it and let you grow a safer and more

01:15:51 ◼   ► productive code base and also create other things is a unique Swift power. And I see

01:15:57 ◼   ► Swift as having an extraordinary future, of course inside of Apple, but across the industry.

01:16:04 ◼   ► And I think that's the next 10 years.

01:16:13 ◼   ► Obviously we want to talk about Apple intelligence, but I feel if we're going to talk about Apple

01:16:18 ◼   ► intelligence, we should have somebody out here who's actually intelligent about it.

01:16:26 ◼   ► Ladies and gentlemen, John G. Andrea.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Hey guys.

01:16:37 ◼   ► Wow.

01:16:39 ◼   ► All right.

01:16:44 ◼   ► JG.

01:16:46 ◼   ► JG.

01:16:47 ◼   ► JG.

01:16:49 ◼   ► GJ.

01:16:50 ◼   ► What's the deal, Craig?

01:16:56 ◼   ► Sorry.

01:16:59 ◼   ► Sorry for keeping you waiting. It's your colleagues fault for having so much to talk about.

01:17:03 ◼   ► It was fun listening to you backstage.

01:17:07 ◼   ► Siri.

01:17:09 ◼   ► Let me give you a slogan. This time we mean it.

01:17:18 ◼   ► I think when I started working with the Siri team, the first instruction I gave them was

01:17:21 ◼   ► failure is not an option because a lot of people use Siri a lot of the time. And as

01:17:29 ◼   ► it's got better over the years, people just, we see in our data that people just use it

01:17:32 ◼   ► more. And the numbers, I'm not going to tell you what the numbers are, but they're huge.

01:17:39 ◼   ► A billion and a half requests a day.

01:17:42 ◼   ► A billion and a half voice requests a day. But within that, like the mix is shifting

01:17:46 ◼   ► because when people use a voice assistant and it works for them, then they use it more.

01:17:50 ◼   ► So it's a very shifting target.

01:17:54 ◼   ► I'm going to give you a recent example from a friend of mine. This is obviously using

01:17:58 ◼   ► iOS 17. What time zone is Las Vegas in? And the answer was I tried it and got the same

01:18:06 ◼   ► answer. Sorry, I can't help with that, but you can ask me the time in a specific city.

01:18:12 ◼   ► Yes.

01:18:14 ◼   ► If you change that from what time zone is Las Vegas in to what time zone is Las Vegas,

01:18:21 ◼   ► then it would, it gets a good answer.

01:18:22 ◼   ► So this is the NLP brittleness problem, which is you don't want to have to teach your system

01:18:27 ◼   ► all of the ways that human beings might ask for something. So one of the things that we

01:18:31 ◼   ► showed at WWDC was an example of you correcting yourself and saying two different things and

01:18:37 ◼   ► the new models figuring out which thing you meant. And so the good news is that the technology

01:18:42 ◼   ► of language models is getting dramatically better and is less likely to make these fragile

01:18:47 ◼   ► mistakes because they drive us nuts too.

01:18:51 ◼   ► It's good to hear that. Let me clarify something. And I don't think it was unclear in the keynote,

01:18:59 ◼   ► but I just think that it's so important that it deserves to be emphasized over and over

01:19:05 ◼   ► again is everything we've spoken about heretofore is not Apple intelligence, right? Scene learning

01:19:11 ◼   ► and photos, the email categorization, all sorts of stuff that would broadly fall under

01:19:19 ◼   ► your domain is not what you're calling Apple intelligence.

01:19:23 ◼   ► Some of it is powered by Apple intelligence.

01:19:25 ◼   ► Well, so things, things like for instance, the smart script, the math and so forth. We

01:19:33 ◼   ► are not, those aren't built on the foundation model on device or in the cloud. And when

01:19:39 ◼   ► we're able to bring those to the much broader class of devices because they don't require

01:19:47 ◼   ► some of the power that is foundational to running these foundation models. And so the

01:19:55 ◼   ► keynote was organized in part both to get that big idea out of Apple intelligence, but

01:20:00 ◼   ► also to make kind of clear for people what's for all the devices and what's for the class

01:20:06 ◼   ► of devices that can support Apple intelligence.

01:20:08 ◼   ► So let's talk about the class of devices that can support Apple intelligence. The cutoff

01:20:13 ◼   ► is for iPhone is very recent. It is the iPhone 15 pro with the a 17 pro system on a chip

01:20:22 ◼   ► and then any iPad or Mac with an M series chip. What, what is that cutoff? What were,

01:20:32 ◼   ► why, why is that the cut?

01:20:34 ◼   ► So these models, when you run them at runtime is called inference and the inference of large

01:20:39 ◼   ► language models is incredibly competition expensive. And so it's a combination of bandwidth

01:20:45 ◼   ► in the device. It's the size of the A and E it's the, it's the, the, the, the, the oomph

01:20:51 ◼   ► in the device to actually do these models fast enough to be useful. You could in theory

01:20:56 ◼   ► run these models on a very old device, but it would be so slow. It would not be useful.

01:21:01 ◼   ► And so it is not a scheme to sell new iPhones.

01:21:11 ◼   ► No not at all. Otherwise we've been smart enough just to do recent iPads and Macs too.

01:21:15 ◼   ► Wouldn't we?

01:21:16 ◼   ► Yes.

01:21:17 ◼   ► No, you know, we've, we've had so many, I mean, our, our first move in any ways to figure

01:21:22 ◼   ► out how we can bring features back as far as, absolutely. That's, I think you've seen

01:21:28 ◼   ► that time and time again with us. What, what JG says is, is right here. We, this is what

01:21:36 ◼   ► it takes. This is the hardware, what it takes. I mean, it's a pretty extraordinary thing

01:21:40 ◼   ► to run models of this power on an iPhone. And it turned out it, it took us building

01:21:46 ◼   ► this iPhone.

01:21:49 ◼   ► You guys have mentioned the neural engine and that the A17 Pro is the first A series

01:21:54 ◼   ► chip with the neural engine. But is RAM a function of that too? Or is it really primarily

01:22:00 ◼   ► neural engine or it's really all of it?

01:22:02 ◼   ► Sure. It's many dimensions of the system. Yeah. RAM is one of the, one of the pieces

01:22:06 ◼   ► of the total.

01:22:07 ◼   ► Yeah. And the A17 Pro is not the first A chip that's good in your engine, but it's got a

01:22:10 ◼   ► much bigger neural engine than the chip that came before.

01:22:13 ◼   ► Right.

01:22:15 ◼   ► One thing that it doesn't seem, I don't even know if they're capable of it, but like I,

01:22:23 ◼   ► I find with dealing with other human beings.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Difficult, right?

01:22:29 ◼   ► Difficult. I do. Yeah. Obviously. Well, you know, you know how many, how many colleagues

01:22:34 ◼   ► do I have? I got one podcast on the side with one colleague. Let's see if I can keep, keep

01:22:42 ◼   ► that going. No, but I, I find it, or I should say maddening when I meet somebody who never

01:22:52 ◼   ► says I don't know. I think that the humility of somebody who hopefully you know most of

01:23:01 ◼   ► the questions I'm talking to you about, but if you don't know, I appreciate just saying

01:23:06 ◼   ► I don't know or I'll go find out. Seems like LLMs do not have the I don't know.

01:23:13 ◼   ► They also have the feature that they double down on what they said. I think we technically

01:23:24 ◼   ► call this bullshitting, but so what we have done in the features that we announced is

01:23:34 ◼   ► we've been very careful about applying this technology in a very thoughtful way. So we

01:23:39 ◼   ► don't have features that will write, you know, a college essay about something about the

01:23:45 ◼   ► world, right? We've tried to make this, we've tried to corral this technology to do what

01:23:49 ◼   ► it's really good at doing. So a good example of that would be summarization. That used

01:23:53 ◼   ► to be an open research problem in the NLP community and now it's essentially solved

01:23:57 ◼   ► with guardrails and a whole bunch of careful work, but basically you can summarize an email

01:24:01 ◼   ► now and so that that's that for each of the features that we launched, we've had these

01:24:05 ◼   ► internal debates about is this technology ready for real users to use.

01:24:10 ◼   ► Right. So that you're not going to recommend using glue to stick your cheese on a pizza.

01:24:19 ◼   ► We do not have that feature. Just to take an example at random.

01:24:28 ◼   ► How broadly, how are you thinking though about protecting against, let's say offensive, wrong

01:24:36 ◼   ► or just playing goofy like using glue on pizza responses?

01:24:41 ◼   ► Yeah, so there's two problems that you have to address with that alignment. One is the

01:24:47 ◼   ► hallucination problem you've alluded to just saying random stuff that's not true. But the

01:24:52 ◼   ► other is the research community calls the safety problem, which is saying things that

01:24:55 ◼   ► are inappropriate or suggesting things are bad or illegal, for example. And there we

01:25:04 ◼   ► have to tread much more carefully because we think that the user is using our devices

01:25:10 ◼   ► for their purposes and their creative reasons. And so we don't want to be the arbiter. We

01:25:15 ◼   ► don't want to have a huge blog list of words you're not allowed to say or ideas that somehow

01:25:20 ◼   ► don't work in the word processor. So we have to find that balance point where we're not

01:25:24 ◼   ► amplifying inappropriate uses. And we do have a huge number of what we call guardrails and

01:25:31 ◼   ► system techniques to make sure that certain topics are off limits. But it's a very fine

01:25:38 ◼   ► balance as we spend a lot of time and a lot of meetings trying to figure out, because

01:25:42 ◼   ► this is new for us, this is new for the whole industry, trying to figure out where that

01:25:45 ◼   ► balance point should be.

01:25:47 ◼   ► And it seems you don't really have, like you said, like you're not writing, Apple Intelligence

01:25:54 ◼   ► is not generating a first draft of an essay. So you can't get it, you can't give it a prompt.

01:26:01 ◼   ► There is no interface to give it a prompt to say, write me a story about shoplifting

01:26:07 ◼   ► from my local Apple store. I'm trying to pick something that is funny and wrong, but you

01:26:17 ◼   ► know, would be a headache for Jaws that, oh, everybody's getting the new Apple Intelligence

01:26:24 ◼   ► to give them instructions on how to steal stuff from the Apple store.

01:26:27 ◼   ► Yeah, an example we use internally and research use all the time is like, tell me how to hot

01:26:30 ◼   ► wire a car. It's a factual question. Most large language models go try it, will probably

01:26:37 ◼   ► refuse to answer that question because they've detected that it's illegal activity and not

01:26:41 ◼   ► going to help with that.

01:26:44 ◼   ► So what you could do with Apple Intelligence is you can sit down and write your own story

01:26:51 ◼   ► that might be inappropriate or goofy or committing crimes in the story, select it and then say,

01:27:02 ◼   ► make this more serious. But that's your story that you started with.

01:27:09 ◼   ► That could be a fictional story.

01:27:11 ◼   ► Right. It could be fictional, but that's not being generated. You're the person. You're

01:27:15 ◼   ► the one who wrote the story. So if now it has more professional sentence structure,

01:27:21 ◼   ► that's on you. I feel like this is a very interesting balance you guys have.

01:27:25 ◼   ► It is. And I mean, we literally had ethicists involved in our discussions on this. We do

01:27:33 ◼   ► have our roots as a personal computing company. This is a tool for you. So if you were writing

01:27:40 ◼   ► a story or maybe you are writing something about a very harmful phenomena for the purposes

01:27:51 ◼   ► of illustrating why it's bad or to protest against it. And if you're not careful, a model

01:28:00 ◼   ► that you say, well, summarize this for me or help proofread it for me, make it more

01:28:04 ◼   ► professional, a model that says, I'm sorry, I can't do that. This seems to be about

01:28:10 ◼   ► harmful topics. Well, now that's not empowering you as the use of the system. We aren't going

01:28:17 ◼   ► to introduce the harm. We're not going to amplify the harm. But we do think it's a tool

01:28:23 ◼   ► for you. And so that's the line we're carefully trying to draw.

01:28:29 ◼   ► Yeah. And we published a blog post yesterday which goes into some depth about how we built

01:28:37 ◼   ► these models and how they work and so on and so forth, some technical behind the scenes

01:28:40 ◼   ► stuff. And in there we actually listed some of our values about how we approach our Apple

01:28:47 ◼   ► intelligence. And one of those is respect the user's agency.

01:28:59 ◼   ► I'm not surprised and I'm glad to hear it, but with rumors that you guys were heading

01:29:08 ◼   ► towards, I mean, Jaws kind of spoiled it with his tweet when he announced.

01:29:13 ◼   ► Absolutely incredible. Absolutely incredible.

01:29:15 ◼   ► Well, you saw right through that one, didn't you?

01:29:20 ◼   ► But I'll even admit knowing Apple's sensitivity towards the brand and the brand promise to

01:29:29 ◼   ► customers that perhaps Apple would shy away from such things. And I think that's great

01:29:36 ◼   ► that you don't want to limit, but you're not going to give them the story, but you'll let

01:29:41 ◼   ► them make the story they want to make. Yeah, it's very early days. This technology

01:29:45 ◼   ► is very, very nascent. It's very powerful, super exciting, the experiences we've been

01:29:49 ◼   ► able to build this year. But it really is the first of a many, many year journey with

01:29:54 ◼   ► its technology. Image playgrounds, I guess, is the closest

01:29:59 ◼   ► or is the part of it where you're generating the most. Right. And there's three styles.

01:30:07 ◼   ► I think you call them animation, illustration and sketch, sketch, sketch, but not among

01:30:15 ◼   ► them is photo realistic. Yes. Coincidence.

01:30:22 ◼   ► A notable absence. Why? Well, because you don't want to make it easy

01:30:32 ◼   ► to make deep fakes. Right.

01:30:34 ◼   ► And there's no reason to do that in the first version of the product. And there's lots of

01:30:37 ◼   ► other tools that you can still get. I mean, let's face it, there is an ick factor

01:30:47 ◼   ► to it. Right. It is. This is kind of gross and uncomfortable and worrisome, really. Right.

01:30:54 ◼   ► Yeah, potentially. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the opportunities for abuse are really high. And

01:31:02 ◼   ► we we think a lot of this we're focused on communication. That's fun and expressive.

01:31:09 ◼   ► We're not trying to create an alternate reality at all. It's very clear when you see our output,

01:31:14 ◼   ► no one's going to go like, oh, my God, JG was on the moon or whatever. Right. Is that

01:31:21 ◼   ► alligator really on a surfboard? Is that alligator on a surfboard? We want to create no confusion

01:31:25 ◼   ► on these points. But like with the new feature in photos where

01:31:29 ◼   ► you can remove unwanted either people or objects in the background, that I'm guessing is generative

01:31:36 ◼   ► technology because the fill is not just, you know, checkerboard. It's actually filling

01:31:42 ◼   ► in what it is. So obviously, the capability is there in in the technology you have. But

01:31:48 ◼   ► there you're not generating reality. You're filling in the reality that was there behind

01:31:54 ◼   ► the object or movement. Yeah, it's it's and it's a super it's a super

01:31:58 ◼   ► fine line. And, you know, we how aggressive we would pursue, like decluttering a photo

01:32:09 ◼   ► is also a point of great debate. We make sure to mark up the metadata of the generated image

01:32:13 ◼   ► to indicate that it's been altered in this way. And like you say, we're not. Yeah, it's

01:32:18 ◼   ► good to. But but but yeah, we're not trying to generate photo realistic images of people

01:32:27 ◼   ► or places or anything like that. And or when you point your iPhone at the moon, for example,

01:32:37 ◼   ► or a good example, another random example, just off the top of my head. One of if I can

01:32:47 ◼   ► pick one word to summarize the entirety of yesterday's keynote, I would pick this word,

01:32:55 ◼   ► trust. And let me give you an example. Hypothetically speaking, let's say there's another company

01:33:05 ◼   ► that makes desktop operating systems and they see AI as, you know, the bright future that

01:33:19 ◼   ► it really has that this is where and we're on the cusp of it. And maybe they want to

01:33:24 ◼   ► power AI PCs and would introduce a feature that could recall everything that was on your

01:33:33 ◼   ► screen every five seconds. And then it turns out that the first version they shipped is

01:33:42 ◼   ► shipping the database of all of the text that was on your screen all the time in a plain

01:33:49 ◼   ► text database on your startup drive. Hypothetically speaking, I think that's the perfect reaction.

01:34:02 ◼   ► But is that frustrating to you that that it sort of plays into the consumer's worst fear

01:34:11 ◼   ► about this stuff? New stuff is scary. Fingerprint sensor on my phone. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Apple's

01:34:17 ◼   ► going to have my fingerprint. That seems scary. Oh, no. You know, and they're just on device

01:34:21 ◼   ► and it's not just on the device, but it's in a secure enclave. And we can explain to

01:34:25 ◼   ► you how the secure enclave is very clear and would never go to the cloud. And if you get

01:34:28 ◼   ► another device, you've got to use the fingerprint sensor again because we never had your fingerprint.

01:34:32 ◼   ► Oh, OK. Oh, now you're going to scan your face. Oh, no, no, no. Not my face. Right.

01:34:37 ◼   ► But that's I'm exaggerating. But I think it's not really normal. Not really. That was that

01:34:43 ◼   ► was the reaction. It's normal that people are like, whoa. And then, OK, let me listen.

01:34:50 ◼   ► But like with the Windows recall feature, it literally plays into the worst fears people

01:34:55 ◼   ► have. They hear this feature and then hear 10 days later, somebody figures it out. And

01:35:00 ◼   ► it's like it's all in plain text there. Is that frustrating to you as you're building

01:35:04 ◼   ► out features that you're trying to build trust in that overall are outside? Are we frustrated

01:35:10 ◼   ► by the failings of our competitors? The answer is no.

01:35:28 ◼   ► Let's right before you came out, we were talking about Swift. And to go back to that, a big

01:35:41 ◼   ► part of the news didn't really make the keynote because State of the Union is where developer

01:35:46 ◼   ► oriented news goes. That's you know, I always call it the developer keynote. And Xcode has

01:35:53 ◼   ► a tremendous amount of new generative A.I. features. There's I think at the first cut

01:36:02 ◼   ► is completion, code completion. And the next one is Swift Assist. Am I getting the name

01:36:11 ◼   ► right? Because it's Swift only. Right. It's very specific to Swift. Yeah. I hear that,

01:36:20 ◼   ► though. And I think trust. And I think there's two trust factors. The first one is can a

01:36:24 ◼   ► developer trust the code that's being generated? And then the second one is can the developer

01:36:29 ◼   ► trust that their code isn't being misused to train the data for others? Yeah, both are

01:36:36 ◼   ► true. Right. So so I mean, it turns out these large language models are very good at generating

01:36:42 ◼   ► code if you ground them in code that's either been run and tested or code that came, you

01:36:49 ◼   ► know, was legitimate code that was being used. And there's a technique for doing this called

01:36:53 ◼   ► retrieval augmented generation. And so that second feature is anchored in, you know, ground

01:37:00 ◼   ► truth about what is good working code. And yes, certainly we would not use our developers

01:37:07 ◼   ► code to train our models. In fact, we could say something even stronger, which is we don't

01:37:11 ◼   ► use any of our users data to train Apple Foundation models. So what what can you say about the

01:37:25 ◼   ► training data that you did use to train the code generation features? Where did it come

01:37:30 ◼   ► from? If not from users? Well, the foundation models themselves are trained on a wide variety

01:37:41 ◼   ► of data, some of it public web data and some of it licensed data. And so for the public

01:37:47 ◼   ► web data, these large language models learn to generalize by seeing literally, you know,

01:37:55 ◼   ► billions and trillions of tokens. When we do that, with with Apple bot, we let publishers

01:38:01 ◼   ► opt out of having their website be included in that. But the web is a very big place.

01:38:07 ◼   ► And then for the Swift code specifically, I actually don't know the answer to the question.

01:38:12 ◼   ► Oh, look at you like that. He said, I don't know. Yeah. Some of my team's feature, but

01:38:19 ◼   ► I do know that he uses rag. So it's grounded in code that's probably been licensed or otherwise

01:38:24 ◼   ► acquired. Yeah. And then we do a lot of synthetic data generation as well. When it comes to

01:38:28 ◼   ► coding data, we can take things like our own documentation prompt them up. All right. That

01:38:38 ◼   ► is someone who works on our document. But but use it to prompt prompt a model to say

01:38:44 ◼   ► what what are the kinds of things people would want to do with this API write a program that

01:38:47 ◼   ► does that and then create a pipeline that verifies that that's working code, corrects

01:38:53 ◼   ► it, et cetera. And so through through these kinds of advanced pipelines, you can generate

01:38:58 ◼   ► more and more great examples, which then in turn become great, great training data or

01:39:04 ◼   ► great prompts at runtime to answer answer questions. So synthetic data, I think, is

01:39:08 ◼   ► going to become more and more of the answer for making these models smarter, especially

01:39:13 ◼   ► if you can build a good evaluation feedback loop to establish like this. This generated

01:39:18 ◼   ► output is actually correct. So a question very specifically for you, Craig, is are the

01:39:25 ◼   ► engineers on your teams using these features only in a pilot sense so far? Because these

01:39:35 ◼   ► things have come together. Well, we've been working on training them and getting them

01:39:39 ◼   ► into a great shape. They've only been we've only achieved the performance and quality

01:39:43 ◼   ► level we wanted very recently. And so I can't claim that, you know, this this release was

01:39:48 ◼   ► X percent written by our models, but people who who use them love them. I mean, the acceleration

01:39:59 ◼   ► is sometimes it's it's you know, it's kind of a mind reading experience. You know, you

01:40:03 ◼   ► know what you want. You're like, wow, OK, I did it. It gave me exactly what I wanted.

01:40:07 ◼   ► And so I expect we'll be using it very regularly internally. Well, they will be. So I don't

01:40:12 ◼   ► mean to say present tense in terms of I know that this is new and maybe, you know, very

01:40:17 ◼   ► early release developer tools aren't being used for production releases of software.

01:40:22 ◼   ► But the plan is that they this is not just for others who, oh, OK, you guys want code

01:40:27 ◼   ► generation and Xcode internally. It's being it will be dog food. Oh, for sure. This is

01:40:31 ◼   ► like a lot of internal demand, a lot of interest in it. And absolutely. And in terms of that

01:40:38 ◼   ► fear or just back of your mind suspicion that, oh, I don't want to use a tools that have

01:40:44 ◼   ► a server component with my data because I don't know what happens with it. Engineers

01:40:50 ◼   ► on your team will be able to use it with Apple intelligence, even when it goes to the private

01:40:57 ◼   ► cloud compute. Knowing the secrecy that your teams work with, even inside Apple. Yeah,

01:41:04 ◼   ► well, and it's I mean, private cloud compute is a topic I'd love to dig into the the predictive

01:41:11 ◼   ► code completion feature you talked about, though, one of the great things about it is

01:41:14 ◼   ► it's entirely on device. Right. So we really get. Yeah. Which which I think is relatively

01:41:20 ◼   ► novel. I think a lot of the tools out there that do that now are involving sending your

01:41:24 ◼   ► code off to somebody servers and not private cloud compute servers, for that matter. But

01:41:30 ◼   ► this is all running on device. It's incredibly fast and it has it's going to work when you're

01:41:34 ◼   ► on the plane or offline, et cetera. So I think that's a fantastic component. But, yeah, I

01:41:40 ◼   ► mean, a huge part. And I think many of us who wanted to use models for a lot a lot of

01:41:50 ◼   ► times what you want to use them for are things that involve personal or confidential information.

01:41:55 ◼   ► You know, if you're going to like revise an email or fix up some code, odds are that's

01:42:02 ◼   ► not code. You just are attempting to give away or confidential information that you

01:42:09 ◼   ► were intending to leak into someone else's training set. And so for us, a prerequisite

01:42:16 ◼   ► to doing personal intelligence that involves data you actually care about is ironclad privacy.

01:42:24 ◼   ► And there. Yes. And on device, of course, a fantastic answer where that works. And we've

01:42:32 ◼   ► really been pushing the limits of what is possible to do on device. And part of this

01:42:36 ◼   ► is specializing these models for certain high value tasks by building adapters that can

01:42:41 ◼   ► achieve really high level performance. But sometimes you hard to beat having tons of

01:42:47 ◼   ► compute to throw at the problem in an instance when it comes to these big things. But we

01:42:52 ◼   ► don't want that to mean the compromise of giving away your data or losing control of

01:42:57 ◼   ► your data in any fashion. And so we absolutely moved mountains across like every component

01:43:05 ◼   ► of the stack from having our hardware team build us custom servers to us building a custom

01:43:11 ◼   ► OS and inventing a lot of technology for trusted attestation and server management, a bunch

01:43:19 ◼   ► of code written in Swift to do that, to create, I think, for the first time in the industry,

01:43:26 ◼   ► a an at scale AI inference platform where the operator of the platform and no one else

01:43:35 ◼   ► can have any access to the data that's being used for inference. So now you can use this

01:43:40 ◼   ► thing and really feel like, oh, I'm not I'm not exposing my data to others. It's existing

01:43:46 ◼   ► in that same privacy bubble that has protected my data on my phone. And that's been extended

01:43:52 ◼   ► to the cloud. And we think that's an extraordinary engineering achievement. And I think what

01:43:56 ◼   ► the future of AI should be. Was this table stakes for Apple that, OK, some of these tasks

01:44:14 ◼   ► are going to require cloud compute today. And if they're going to and we want to have

01:44:20 ◼   ► these features, therefore, we need to do what Craig just said and build out Apple's own

01:44:27 ◼   ► servers, Apple's own everything. Yeah. Yep. Private by design. I have to ask, what is

01:44:40 ◼   ► the Apple silicon in the cloud servers saying? No, we didn't specify. I said we didn't specify.

01:44:48 ◼   ► Oh, we didn't specify. That's the way we choose not to answer. John, when you say how many

01:44:56 ◼   ► of the servers there are a lot. It's very powerful. I had some value up here. John,

01:45:10 ◼   ► all right. Let me ask about this with private cloud compute. A lot of people are very concerned

01:45:17 ◼   ► with the rise of A.I. in general, which in until yesterday was almost entirely for a

01:45:28 ◼   ► large language models and generative in the servers in the cloud. The environmental impact.

01:45:35 ◼   ► Very, very serious concerns. What is the story with Apple's private cloud compute and its

01:45:43 ◼   ► environmental impact? I mean, there are two reasons why we wanted to build private cloud

01:45:48 ◼   ► compute out of Apple Silicon. One is the privacy architecture it gives us, you know, building

01:45:53 ◼   ► on the secure or enclave, trusted boot, every other thing about the systems. But the other

01:45:59 ◼   ► is the incredible energy efficiency of Apple Silicon, which, you know, is forged in our

01:46:04 ◼   ► history of building mobile silicon. This is not the history of your typical A.I. inference

01:46:10 ◼   ► silicon, right? But it is ours. And so we just get tremendous efficiency out of our

01:46:18 ◼   ► private cloud compute. And this is going to allow us to continue to have our data centers

01:46:22 ◼   ► be 100 percent carbon neutral, which renewable energy. More than that. It's more than 100.

01:46:28 ◼   ► No, no, it's a it's all renewable energy, right? It's all. Yeah. So it's not just it's

01:46:33 ◼   ► not just carbon neutral. It's entirely 100 percent renewable energy. That's right. Yeah.

01:46:40 ◼   ► So to clarify, this is not with carbon offsets. No, this is 100 percent renewable energy.

01:46:47 ◼   ► So it's a phenomenal environmental story. Not to mention that a ton of this is running

01:46:51 ◼   ► on your device, which is inherently very efficient. Right. And not even going to the data centers.

01:46:57 ◼   ► But as you know, this has been a big concern for generative A.I. is the amount of energy

01:47:01 ◼   ► they they're using off the grid. And we have an incredible Apple kind of story on that.

01:47:09 ◼   ► Is it possible that achieving that took a little extra time? Hence the patience. Patience.

01:47:19 ◼   ► But that's I do think that there was, you know, with with the rise of A.I. and the you

01:47:24 ◼   ► know, a couple of years ago, the hot new thing was cryptocurrency. And I don't think people

01:47:30 ◼   ► were waiting for Apple to mint its own cryptocurrency. I think most people expected Apple to let

01:47:37 ◼   ► that one pass. And I think A.I., there is undeniably not just a little there, there

01:47:44 ◼   ► a lot of there there. And I think there was a consensus of, oh, that 2030 whole company

01:47:51 ◼   ► is going to be carbon neutral. Wow. That goes out the door because now there's this monkey

01:47:56 ◼   ► wrench thrown in. But no, no, this does not disrupt. This doesn't move it back to 2031.

01:48:03 ◼   ► It's day one. Renewable energy. Yeah. I think that that goal is very much alive and well.

01:48:18 ◼   ► Can you speak to me a little bit about this? This idea of verifiable images on the cloud

01:48:22 ◼   ► compute. It's not source code that you're giving to researchers. They're images. But

01:48:28 ◼   ► how does that how does getting an image of the OS let them verify the integrity of the

01:48:35 ◼   ► OS in a cloud? A couple of things. So our benchmark really is iPhone. Right. When with

01:48:43 ◼   ► your iPhone, we of course, are every time we make a change to the behavior of of iPhone,

01:48:51 ◼   ► it's because we've shipped a software update with an image of the software and researchers

01:48:56 ◼   ► are able to debug that system and observe its behavior and check its code and so forth.

01:49:04 ◼   ► And traditionally in the cloud, that's totally not the case. Right. If you someone's operating

01:49:10 ◼   ► in a server, you're sending your request to their server. You have no idea what's running

01:49:15 ◼   ► on that server. You have no way to inspect what's on that server. Even if at one moment

01:49:20 ◼   ► in time it got audited, you don't know if a minute later it changed its code and a minute

01:49:24 ◼   ► later changed it back. I mean, you just can't have any confidence in what's happening there.

01:49:30 ◼   ► Very much unlike what's happening on your phone. So we want to make sure we could give

01:49:35 ◼   ► that same property. And we do this by saying that the whole trusted boot infrastructure

01:49:45 ◼   ► that the SCP, the secure enclave processor on the server is measuring is able to identify

01:49:53 ◼   ► exactly the total image of that software. And this OS is also frozen so that no new

01:49:59 ◼   ► code can be added. No new code can be generated at runtime. Like the OS literally won't map

01:50:04 ◼   ► in any executable code pages that aren't part of the encrypted image. And when you make

01:50:09 ◼   ► a request to that server, there's a handshake where the SCP attests and says this was a

01:50:16 ◼   ► trusted boot and here is the measurements, the signature of this OS that you would be

01:50:22 ◼   ► talking to if you were to send me the request and here are the keys to have that conversation

01:50:27 ◼   ► with this thing. Well, separately your phone is going to look in an attestation log, an

01:50:34 ◼   ► append only log, brought up crypto, that kind of technology, that Apple had to post that

01:50:42 ◼   ► these are known posted public images of this and your phone says is the image I'm talking

01:50:48 ◼   ► to a publicly posted image? If it's not, I will not talk to that device. So even if an

01:50:55 ◼   ► attacker were to try to sign an image, put it on that server and try to intercept a request,

01:51:03 ◼   ► your phone would refuse to talk to it. So there you've got these images that we have

01:51:08 ◼   ► to publicly post. We are then also equipping researchers with VMs so they can run those

01:51:15 ◼   ► images on a Mac and debug and test them and verify our claims as well, which is even a

01:51:22 ◼   ► step up from what they're offered for iPhone. And do the same thing where they can take

01:51:27 ◼   ► the image on their local VM that they're testing and check that its signature matches. Exactly.

01:51:33 ◼   ► The one that you've posted to this write only chain that they can verify that you didn't

01:51:38 ◼   ► ship, you Apple didn't ship the researchers a different image. Exactly. Exactly. And no

01:51:50 ◼   ► one's ever done anything like that. Not that I know of. Yeah. It's not a subtle difference,

01:51:57 ◼   ► but a complete inversion difference with Apple intelligence in the starting point is that

01:52:02 ◼   ► because you were running on the customers devices, you've got all of this personal context

01:52:11 ◼   ► to start with as opposed to starting with whatever was just typed in a box. How different

01:52:18 ◼   ► is that in terms of are your models along the lines of other models and you just have

01:52:27 ◼   ► a different data source or is it an entirely different approach to creating generative

01:52:33 ◼   ► models? The core models are so-called foundation models. What's new and novel is that they

01:52:40 ◼   ► can operate, the ones on device can operate over their semantic understanding of the user's

01:52:46 ◼   ► data. So we have a semantic index of your messages, things on your, Craig was mentioning

01:52:53 ◼   ► earlier about relationships in your photos and so on and so forth. And so the model can

01:52:57 ◼   ► reason over that private data. And what that gives you essentially is a personalized feature

01:53:04 ◼   ► that is personal to you and runs on your device. Whereas these other chatbot like products,

01:53:10 ◼   ► they have tremendous world knowledge, they've ingested all of Wikipedia or whatever, but

01:53:14 ◼   ► they don't know anything about you. And so they're limited from talking in a completely

01:53:17 ◼   ► unpersonalized way. And we think that that's just interesting but less useful than getting

01:53:23 ◼   ► done with your data like we demonstrated at DubDub.

01:53:29 ◼   ► Right like typing into a chatbot when does my mom's flight arrive?

01:53:34 ◼   ► It won't work, right?

01:53:36 ◼   ► It couldn't.

01:53:37 ◼   ► It'll make something up.

01:53:38 ◼   ► Right, right, right, because it's not going to say I don't know. We can try it right now

01:53:43 ◼   ► and it'll.

01:53:44 ◼   ► But I mean it's even more foundational than that. If you ask a chatbot what time is it?

01:53:47 ◼   ► Right.

01:53:48 ◼   ► It doesn't know. There's no concept that there's an API call that you should be making.

01:53:53 ◼   ► Yeah and I know John you sort of track how different parts of our stack develop over

01:53:57 ◼   ► time and what's interesting about the semantic index is for many, many years foundational

01:54:02 ◼   ► part even going back to Mac OS X has been Spotlight and apps and with iPhone apps contributing

01:54:10 ◼   ► information in the Spotlight so that the user could search them or so that the app could

01:54:14 ◼   ► use powerful search from the system index within the apps.

01:54:20 ◼   ► Well that same interface, the same way that apps are donating that context to Spotlight,

01:54:25 ◼   ► that is the source that the semantic index is then able to take that data and index it

01:54:29 ◼   ► not just by keyword and so forth but semantically and that becomes the source for Apple intelligence

01:54:38 ◼   ► running on device to look things up.

01:54:40 ◼   ► So it's not that there's a whole new, there's no new information being exposed to the system.

01:54:44 ◼   ► It's the same information that's been exposed to Spotlight all along and there's no new

01:54:49 ◼   ► work for developers. Another good reason for developers though to provide information into

01:54:53 ◼   ► Spotlight because now it's making Apple intelligence even more able to help the user and to direct

01:55:00 ◼   ► the user back into doing activities inside that app.

01:55:04 ◼   ► Probably worth saying it's stored securely on your device as well.

01:55:07 ◼   ► Yeah that too.

01:55:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:55:09 ◼   ► Yeah in the same way the data always has been on your iPhone.

01:55:12 ◼   ► And the difference in context, like I said, it's very useful over here with world knowledge

01:55:18 ◼   ► but entirely different but in many more practical ways with personal context.

01:55:25 ◼   ► But in your career really, do you find yourself thinking about how humans deal with context

01:55:35 ◼   ► naturally? Craig just addressed me as John a minute or two ago.

01:55:39 ◼   ► You knew he was talking to me even though you're John.

01:55:44 ◼   ► Does your mind as someone whose career has been like this, do you constantly think about

01:55:50 ◼   ► how you knew that that was me John not you John John?

01:55:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:55:54 ◼   ► I have spent a considerable part of my career working on this problem.

01:56:01 ◼   ► So I mean the technical answer to this question is the breakthrough with transformer models

01:56:07 ◼   ► and LLMs that has caused all of the excitement of the last few years is around an idea called

01:56:14 ◼   ► attention which is that not all data is equally relevant when you're considering a time sequence

01:56:19 ◼   ► of things.

01:56:20 ◼   ► So this is why we use examples like when do I need to leave to go pick mom up at the airport

01:56:24 ◼   ► because the model really truly has understood the notion that you have to do one thing before

01:56:28 ◼   ► the other and therefore that it needs to find a flight from your mom.

01:56:34 ◼   ► So let's go call the semantic index and see where that flight is.

01:56:36 ◼   ► It could be in my email, it could be in messages, whatever.

01:56:39 ◼   ► But that notion that there is the idea of picking somebody up from the airport is actually

01:56:44 ◼   ► really learned by these models.

01:56:48 ◼   ► And that has really been the breakthrough for LLMs and why this technology is so important

01:56:52 ◼   ► to figure out how to use appropriately.

01:56:55 ◼   ► That brings me to the last topic from the keynote and that is the partnership with OpenAI

01:57:00 ◼   ► and ChatGPT.

01:57:02 ◼   ► Here's my question.

01:57:03 ◼   ► Everything we have spoken about in this very long interview to date has all been Apple

01:57:08 ◼   ► technology.

01:57:09 ◼   ► Yes.

01:57:10 ◼   ► Correct.

01:57:11 ◼   ► Yeah, 100%.

01:57:12 ◼   ► All of it.

01:57:13 ◼   ► All of it.

01:57:14 ◼   ► And this is a lot and it is extremely useful and it is broad.

01:57:17 ◼   ► So why partner with OpenAI?

01:57:21 ◼   ► Well, we think there are use cases for these larger world models.

01:57:28 ◼   ► They're not the use cases we've been talking about.

01:57:31 ◼   ► But we know that people are pretty excited to use these models for all kinds of tasks.

01:57:36 ◼   ► And what we think is going to happen over the coming years is there will be many of

01:57:40 ◼   ► these large models that are specialized for very specific things.

01:57:44 ◼   ► And some of them will have different business models.

01:57:45 ◼   ► Some of them will be free.

01:57:46 ◼   ► Some of them you'll have to pay for.

01:57:48 ◼   ► But there may be legal models or maybe models that understand healthcare really well.

01:57:53 ◼   ► And so we think that baking an entry point into these models into the user interface

01:58:00 ◼   ► is kind of sort of necessary.

01:58:03 ◼   ► Otherwise you're forced with like bringing up a chatbot and cutting and pasting stuff.

01:58:08 ◼   ► And we respect what these models can do enough to say we should make it easy to do.

01:58:14 ◼   ► And we should give you a choice ultimately of models to use.

01:58:17 ◼   ► And so we'll see how users like the integration that we've done.

01:58:22 ◼   ► But we think that this technology is not going away anytime soon.

01:58:27 ◼   ► And I think of it a bit like the way Safari deals with search engines.

01:58:31 ◼   ► Search engines, sure.

01:58:32 ◼   ► Right?

01:58:33 ◼   ► I mean, it just became a thing that you would type into the URL bar your search term and

01:58:38 ◼   ► that's just a good way to do that.

01:58:40 ◼   ► Well similarly, if you actually do want to write an essay about blue whales and you want

01:58:43 ◼   ► to use ChatGPT to do it, we want to make it as easy as possible.

01:58:46 ◼   ► And we want to make it very super clear to you that you're using ChatGPT, that the thing

01:58:49 ◼   ► you're getting back might have hallucinations.

01:58:52 ◼   ► And so that's why we've done the integration that way.

01:58:55 ◼   ► Right.

01:58:56 ◼   ► All right.

01:58:57 ◼   ► It's probably worth clarifying.

01:58:58 ◼   ► We talk about it sort of built in, the integration built into the system.

01:59:06 ◼   ► The integration is turned off by default.

01:59:08 ◼   ► So when you first, I don't know if that's good, but it's a thing that when, you know,

01:59:15 ◼   ► if there were ever a time when the system thought that you might want to use ChatGPT,

01:59:21 ◼   ► it's going to say, do you want to set this up?

01:59:23 ◼   ► Right.

01:59:24 ◼   ► So it's not, there's nothing that's happening automatically or whatever.

01:59:27 ◼   ► You have to say, yes, I want to enable this feature.

01:59:31 ◼   ► And you know, if someone for some reason just never wants it to be suggested to them at

01:59:35 ◼   ► all, they also can just say, you know, never ask, I have no interest in this feature.

01:59:40 ◼   ► And so if this isn't somehow, you know, insidiously integrated and pre-enabled or anything like

01:59:46 ◼   ► this, it's just available if someone wants to turn it on.

01:59:51 ◼   ► And it's free and it doesn't require a subscription.

01:59:54 ◼   ► And your IP address is obscured and your requests are not logged, you know, so it was a lot

01:59:59 ◼   ► of really cool things.

02:00:00 ◼   ► There's a lot we did to make sure that if you were going to use it, that it was as good

02:00:03 ◼   ► as it could be.

02:00:06 ◼   ► So who's paying whom?

02:00:13 ◼   ► I pay Craig.

02:00:14 ◼   ► Craig pays Sean.

02:00:16 ◼   ► Yeah, sorry, you know, no answer.

02:00:23 ◼   ► You knew the answer.

02:00:26 ◼   ► Can you tell me, is it a good story?

02:00:29 ◼   ► Did I get Eddie up here?

02:00:35 ◼   ► And a bottle of tequila.

02:00:38 ◼   ► All right, last question.

02:00:41 ◼   ► I've seen this floating about on social media, the same sentiment, but something to the fact,

02:00:47 ◼   ► but I think it's everywhere because I think it resonates with people.

02:00:53 ◼   ► I don't want AI to create songs and write poetry and make paintings so that I can wash

02:01:02 ◼   ► my dishes and do my laundry.

02:01:06 ◼   ► I want AI to wash my dishes and do my laundry so that I can make music and I can make paintings

02:01:12 ◼   ► and I can make art.

02:01:16 ◼   ► And I think it speaks to Apple as a tool maker for people who want to do things like that.

02:01:22 ◼   ► It dates to the origins of the founding of the company.

02:01:26 ◼   ► Do you guys see it that way?

02:01:29 ◼   ► That you're making tools for creative people, not tools to replace creative people?

02:01:33 ◼   ► Yeah, 100%.

02:01:34 ◼   ► Absolutely.

02:01:35 ◼   ► But I do think these tools will amplify people's creativity and capability.

02:01:43 ◼   ► How many people now, I mean, just to go technology from the 80s could pick up a synthesizer and

02:01:51 ◼   ► now make music that maybe previously involved in orchestra, but now they're composing something

02:01:58 ◼   ► so much bigger because they have a powerful instrument at their disposal.

02:02:02 ◼   ► I think these tools are going to enable people to, a single individual to express their creativity

02:02:09 ◼   ► in bigger and bigger ways.

02:02:11 ◼   ► I think that's tremendously empowering and that's what it's for for us.

02:02:17 ◼   ► And that's what computing has always really been for is to augment human creativity.

02:02:24 ◼   ► Good answer.

02:02:27 ◼   ► Let me thank my guests, John G. Andrea, J.G., Craig Federighi, Jaws.

02:02:34 ◼   ► Let's go with Jaws.

02:02:40 ◼   ► I would also like to thank everybody here at the theater.

02:02:44 ◼   ► I would like to thank my friends at Sandwich who shot the video, Spatial Jen who shot this

02:02:52 ◼   ► and hopefully live streamed it.

02:02:56 ◼   ► I would like to thank my wife and my son who are here helping backstage, Amy and Jonas.

02:03:04 ◼   ► I would like to thank my sponsors, iMazing, Flexibits, Fantastic Alan Cardhop, and of

02:03:11 ◼   ► course Flighty, thank you to them, and thank you to you for coming.

02:03:17 ◼   ► This is great.

02:03:18 ◼   ► And don't forget the helmet.

02:03:19 ◼   ► Good job.

02:03:19 ◼   ► [Applause]

02:03:37 ◼   ► [End of Audio]