00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 514 for May 27th, 2024. Today's show is brought to you by
00:00:17 ◼ ► Squarespace, Vitaly and Ladder. My name is Mike Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason!
00:00:23 ◼ ► Hi, Mike! How are you? I'm doing fine. I'm traveling for the long holiday weekend. How's
00:00:29 ◼ ► your bank holiday going? I was gonna say, I wondered if you were gonna say, I was thinking
00:00:33 ◼ ► about this today. Are you free from banks? If you would say to me, "Happy Memorial Day," and then I
00:00:38 ◼ ► would say to you, "Happy early spring bank holiday," which is what this one is technically called.
00:00:48 ◼ ► early summer, late summer, you know, or first August bank holiday, second August. Well,
00:00:53 ◼ ► congratulations to everybody celebrating the bank holiday, except for the workers and the banks who
00:00:58 ◼ ► have to work on the bank holiday. Well, I mean, and podcasters. We do this to ourselves. This is
00:01:04 ◼ ► a funny thing where like, I'm sure we've mentioned this a million times on the show for this exact
00:01:08 ◼ ► reason where people, you know, I'm working on bank holidays here and people are like, "Oh,
00:01:11 ◼ ► you work on the bank holidays?" "Yep, because Jason doesn't." And then, but then I say,
00:01:16 ◼ ► "Well, similarly, there's any American, like, what do you call them, public holidays that are
00:01:21 ◼ ► on Mondays?" "Jason works them because I'm working." This is the one where we technically both
00:01:26 ◼ ► could have just said, "No, let's not bother," but why would we do that? This is the truth. The truth
00:01:30 ◼ ► is if either of us has a holiday that we want to take off and move the show, we'll move the show,
00:01:35 ◼ ► we'll prerecord it. The problem is then you have to say, "Well, can we do it on Friday?" Or is it,
00:01:41 ◼ ► "Can we move it to Tuesday?" And, "Oh, I got to move a thing here and I got to do this there."
00:01:45 ◼ ► And in the end, usually you and I look at each other and are like, "Let's just do it." I think
00:01:51 ◼ ► Merlin has spoken about this the most, of like, the knock-on effects of one podcast moving.
00:02:08 ◼ ► Exactly, and so it's often easier, unless you're traveling. I mean, I'm traveling here and I was
00:02:13 ◼ ► able, there's a car trip, I brought lots of stuff with me because I could do that. But,
00:02:20 ◼ ► unless you're like, if you're traveling for the holiday and you're truly taking a holiday,
00:02:24 ◼ ► then we'll move the show, right? We'll move the show. I didn't have to do this today, but
00:02:48 ◼ ► Now, for the sake of the question, I have them listed as follows, not in order, but just listed.
00:02:53 ◼ ► iOS, iPadOS, macOS, WatchOS, VisionOS, TVOS. So, Jason, what do you think Apple's ranking
00:03:17 ◼ ► So, right now I would say, I mean, iOS is always number one. Right now I would say maybe even
00:03:23 ◼ ► VisionOS is number two because it's a product that's still in process of happening, and then
00:03:31 ◼ ► I would say... Then I would probably say iPadOS only because it picks up a lot of the work of iOS,
00:03:39 ◼ ► so it's coming along for the ride. Then I would say macOS, then WatchOS, and then TVOS.
00:04:37 ◼ ► Yeah, I know. I would do it very differently, but if I'm greedy, the iPhone's fine. The other
00:04:46 ◼ ► products need more love, and I know why they don't get them, but they need more love. And TVOS...
00:04:50 ◼ ► Shout out to Joe Rosenstiel, who's written many, many, many blog posts about this, but TVOS
00:04:56 ◼ ► has so much potential because even though that box is more expensive than the competition,
00:05:01 ◼ ► it's like the hardware is so much better. There's so much that could be improved about it,
00:05:05 ◼ ► and it just doesn't get better. And I use it every day, so I would like it to be way better than it
00:05:12 ◼ ► is, and the potential's there, but it's just not there. I mean, truth is I'd probably rate VisionOS
00:05:17 ◼ ► highly because I think that there's a lot of potential there, and I think they just desperately
00:05:20 ◼ ► need to improve it. All right, my personal ranking would be, in my ideal world, iOS, macOS,
00:05:30 ◼ ► iPadOS, VisionOS, WatchOS, TVOS. And while I similarly love TVOS, the things I want them to
00:05:40 ◼ ► do for TVOS, I don't think they're going to be able to do them because it requires Netflix and stuff.
00:05:49 ◼ ► - Then I would flip... Okay, in that regard, I'll flip TVOS and WatchOS. WatchOS, I don't really
00:05:54 ◼ ► need to do anything. It's fine for me as it is. I'm good with it. Because again, if I was in charge,
00:06:02 ◼ ► there would be another operating system called FitnessOS, and I would put that on a band with
00:06:08 ◼ ► no screen. But yeah, that's where I would go. For me, iOS, I think is... It is the most important
00:06:18 ◼ ► still, and I would still put it that way because the work of iOS will inform all the other OSes,
00:06:24 ◼ ► and I think it will only ever work that way. I can't imagine macOS features really influencing
00:06:37 ◼ ► - Thank you to Ryan for that great question. If you would like to send in one of your own,
00:06:48 ◼ ► open an episode of Upgrade. A little bit of follow-up. First off, I would like to thank
00:06:54 ◼ ► all of the listeners and the Upgradients who are the same, one and the same, who wrote in
00:07:20 ◼ ► a kind of superfluous, and you have to look for them, but it was using the tagline from
00:07:28 ◼ ► the Photoshop file. And I also noticed when people were posting them that in our old Upgrade+
00:07:33 ◼ ► show art, we capitalized all the things in the tagline, whereas in the regular show art,
00:07:57 ◼ ► - All right, the dereliction of the owners, but it has been corrected, and the responsible
00:08:05 ◼ ► - Very important stuff here. Super important. - It might be possible to know, actually.
00:08:08 ◼ ► I'll see if I can try and find out the answer to that. Maybe there's some kind of provenance
00:08:15 ◼ ► It was, I like, I'm very happy that we refreshed it without changing it, essentially, because that
00:08:19 ◼ ► was the brief, right? Like, you and I both were very happy with our logo. We just didn't want it
00:08:32 ◼ ► "Listening to your discussion about the iPhone slim, I am thinking that this kind of market
00:08:37 ◼ ► segmentation damages the iPhone brand. When I had an iPhone 5, if you had the latest iPhone,
00:08:43 ◼ ► you had the best iPhone. It democratized the best in the world. But now, the regular iPhone just
00:08:48 ◼ ► means you can't afford the quote-unquote good ones. I wonder if it's worth it for Apple to go
00:08:53 ◼ ► higher in market segmentation and alienate users." - I always love some follow-up from Carlos,
00:09:00 ◼ ► because he's a little feisty, and I often disagree with him, but I think he makes interesting points.
00:09:07 ◼ ► I feel like the existence of the, well, first off, I question the premise that it just means
00:09:17 ◼ ► and it's not because they can't afford the 15 Pro. It's that they don't think that's a good use of
00:09:21 ◼ ► their money. Like, for them, the cheaper phone is fine, and that the Pro is like, "What am I really
00:09:27 ◼ ► getting out of it?" And there are other people for whom it's like, not a question, just like,
00:09:30 ◼ ► "Pay the most, want the best." And so that's, I think, good market segmentation. I think similarly,
00:09:35 ◼ ► if you're Apple and you have the opportunity to make a $2,000 phone that feels like the future,
00:09:40 ◼ ► but no, and you're like, "Well, we can't make the iPhone $2,000, right? We can't do it. It will be
00:09:46 ◼ ► disastrous." But what we could do, and I'm making up that number, but like, just, it's a proxy for
00:09:50 ◼ ► a big number, way more than the current phones. Well, you can't replace the iPhone right now,
00:09:56 ◼ ► but you could make that phone if you're capable and sell it and get people a taste of the future,
00:10:02 ◼ ► and some portion of your audience will buy it. I don't buy the premise that the iPhone's success
00:10:09 ◼ ► is based on the fact that everybody gets the same one, because that hasn't been true for several
00:10:15 ◼ ► years, and the iPhone is still successful. And in fact, there are people who are perfectly happy
00:10:19 ◼ ► to buy the cheaper model because they don't feel like they need to buy all those features. They're
00:10:23 ◼ ► not going to use all those features, or they don't want all those features, and they'll save a little
00:10:26 ◼ ► bit of money, and it makes them feel good about buying the iPhone of their choice. I don't think
00:10:30 ◼ ► there are a lot of iPhone 15 and 14 owners going, "Oh man, I don't like this phone. I wanted the
00:10:35 ◼ ► good phone, but I couldn't afford it, so I just got this." I don't think that's the case. I think
00:10:39 ◼ ► that's a different market segment. But even if there are, I don't think Apple cares, and I think
00:10:44 ◼ ► that the results have borne out. Well, they haven't lost sales over it, I don't think, right?
00:10:50 ◼ ► The thing about aspirational goods is in the name. They will make expensive, full-featured iPhones,
00:10:57 ◼ ► because people will, the majority of people, will want to buy them, and either will, or they will
00:11:03 ◼ ► look to the point when they can, and they will just look forward to when they can make that
00:11:07 ◼ ► purchase. Like, you're a student now, but when you have a job, maybe you'll get the Pro Phone,
00:11:12 ◼ ► because you're not having a phone bought for you by your parents who are trying to just get you
00:11:16 ◼ ► what they can afford, right? Like, I don't think that, well, honestly, if this was the case,
00:11:23 ◼ ► this wouldn't have worked, right? For the last 10 years or whatever that they've been doing
00:11:29 ◼ ► the segmentation. 10 years, it's been almost 10 years since the 6 and 6 Plus. And what Apple has
00:11:36 ◼ ► proven time and time again is every single time they have a more expensive phone, it always sells
00:11:41 ◼ ► the most. In fact, it creates a spike in iPhone revenue when they do. So I don't, I get the idea,
00:11:48 ◼ ► I understand how if you can't afford it, that really sucks, but like, Apple's just going to do
00:11:52 ◼ ► what makes it the most money, same as pretty much any business that wants to make money.
00:12:04 ◼ ► they wouldn't do it, right? That's the counter argument is if they did this and it led to less
00:12:14 ◼ ► - Nobody knows which models of iPhone sell most more than Apple, right? And so they know.
00:12:21 ◼ ► - While talking about the iPhone slim, I would like to make a quick correction as pointed out
00:12:25 ◼ ► to me by our wonderful video editor, Chip. I attributed the story of the iPhone slim to Jeff
00:12:31 ◼ ► Poo. Jeff is an analyst at Hightong International Securities who shared information about the design
00:12:36 ◼ ► changes coming to the iPhone 17 lineup as a whole corroborate the idea of a slim iPhone. But the
00:12:42 ◼ ► report of the iPhone slim from the information was written by Wayne Ma and Chianna Lu. So Leo,
00:12:48 ◼ ► so I wanted to just correct myself there because it's important. Jason, you reviewed the Kobo Libra
00:13:07 ◼ ► - So it's great. My review is hilarious because when it's in caps, it's O-U-R. And then when I
00:13:12 ◼ ► refer to the screen, I just say C-O-L-O-R. It's like, that's just how it is. That's how it's
00:13:31 ◼ ► to read comics, although I did try. I read some Saga from a PDF. The color is like newsprint-y.
00:13:38 ◼ ► It's not super vibrant or anything because it's an e-ink screen. It's impressive that e-ink can
00:14:06 ◼ ► very useful in most cases. Color book covers, I guess? And if you do highlighting, you can
00:14:13 ◼ ► color code them, which there might be people for whom this is valuable, but I'm somebody who reads
00:14:18 ◼ ► books on my e-reader, and I don't understand. Like, $40 more without any other real improvements
00:14:27 ◼ ► other than color is not great. They seem to have discontinued the black and white model,
00:14:32 ◼ ► which they didn't do for some of their other models, but this one, the old Libra 2, is gone.
00:14:36 ◼ ► So unless they're working on a black and white successor, it's really a bummer because now you
00:14:43 ◼ ► have to spend $40 more, so it's that much more expensive. And then there's the big issue, which
00:14:49 ◼ ► is that color screen is impressive, but its backlight doesn't go as bright. It's not as bright.
00:14:57 ◼ ► And the screen itself has a very fine texture, I would say, almost, a pattern on the background
00:15:06 ◼ ► that I think is an effect. Some of it might be ghosting. I also have noticed some ghosting where
00:15:17 ◼ ► is just fundamental, which is on the black and white Kobo and on Kindles that are black and white,
00:15:31 ◼ ► there's a lot of contrast on the black and white model, and the color model with these little dots
00:15:40 ◼ ► means the contrast is less. So it gets less bright and there's poorer contrast. And in bright
00:15:46 ◼ ► writing, in bright reading environments, I notice this, right? Like I notice it doesn't get as
00:15:52 ◼ ► bright. It's not as easy to read as the old model. So in the end, I think it's a disappointment.
00:15:57 ◼ ► I despair about the current state of e-readers because Amazon seems to also have kind of voided
00:16:11 ◼ ► A lot of the ones that I thought were really good, like the Kindle Oasis, which was expensive but
00:16:21 ◼ ► very good, that seems to be gone. The Kobo Libra 2, that is gone and now you have to pay for the
00:16:28 ◼ ► color model or you can step up to the Sage, but that's much more expensive. Like I just...
00:16:34 ◼ ► there's no... I'm used to there being no excitement in the e-reader space, but now I feel like the
00:16:40 ◼ ► e-reader space is aggressively getting worse. And so the Kobo Libra color, like I wouldn't choose it
00:16:45 ◼ ► over a Libra 2, honestly, even though I think it is faster and the page is turned faster. And I
00:16:50 ◼ ► think there's some nice things about it, but like bottom line is it's not really appreciably better
00:16:54 ◼ ► than the model it replaces. It's more expensive and the screen isn't as good. So what are we even
00:16:59 ◼ ► doing here? So I'm feeling a lot of despair about the e-reader market right now. Well, you have the
00:17:06 ◼ ► savior of the Daylight Computer, right? I've heard from like a half a dozen people at least saying,
00:17:12 ◼ ► "Oh, I can't wait to see what Jason says about the Daylight Computer." The Daylight Computer is
00:17:17 ◼ ► basically an iPad with a screen that they say is "like e-ink," which that's a red flag. "Like
00:17:24 ◼ ► e-ink." What does that mean? I've seen people say it is a black and white LCD display with an amber
00:17:32 ◼ ► backlight, not a regular backlight. That's all it is? Yeah. Yeah. That sounds about right. Like,
00:17:38 ◼ ► it's not e-ink, right? It's not because they would say if it was. And what also irks me is that some
00:17:45 ◼ ► of the hype people around this product, because they've got a really good, I'll give them credit,
00:17:49 ◼ ► a really good process of rolling this out where people are talking about it. And coming to me,
00:17:53 ◼ ► "Oh, Jason, e-inker, e-paper," whatever they say. Beautiful. They have a very good looking website.
00:17:59 ◼ ► Their video is, I think it's a sandwich video. Is there a launch video? Oh, really? Yeah, but it
00:18:04 ◼ ► rolls, it makes me roll my eyes because it's all about like, "Oh, we're addicted to our screens,
00:18:08 ◼ ► and this is going to free you from your screens." I'm like, "Come on." But like, so these are the
00:18:12 ◼ ► red flags. It's making a lot of claims about, "Oh, we're addicted to our screens," which
00:18:16 ◼ ► people like their screens. I don't, I really can't stand the "we're addicted to our screens,
00:18:21 ◼ ► here's another screen." Yeah, I know, but our screen is a different screen. It's like e-ink,
00:18:26 ◼ ► but not, but not, but it is. So I got a lot of red flags. It might be an interesting product.
00:18:30 ◼ ► It's iPad-sized, it's black and white, e-ink-like, but not. It's got a stylus. You can attach a
00:18:36 ◼ ► keyboard. It runs Android, but they've customized it. You know, then again, I reviewed a TCL tablet
00:18:42 ◼ ► that I got mostly because they put a matte display protector on it with some, and it had some tweaks
00:18:51 ◼ ► of Android where you could put it in a black and white mode where it looked remarkably like a
00:18:55 ◼ ► Kindle, except it was an Android tablet. So it's still like full-on refresh rate. And they say,
00:19:01 ◼ ► "This one's got a, whatever, 60 hertz refresh rate and all that." It's interesting, but this is
00:19:08 ◼ ► a product in the category of the like, "remarkable" or something, or that word processor that uses
00:19:15 ◼ ► like an e-ink screen so that you can just focus on your writing. That's the market that strikes me,
00:19:20 ◼ ► and there's a lot of woo-woo kind of like, "We're addicted to our screen stuff in that marketing,
00:19:24 ◼ ► in that category." And this strikes me as being where it is targeted, which doesn't really
00:19:30 ◼ ► interest me at all. And the truth is that I'm interested in, I cover e-readers not because it's
00:19:36 ◼ ► an important market that I need to cover as part of my business and my brand. I cover them because
00:19:42 ◼ ► I care and nobody else seems to care, or very few other people seem to care, but I care.
00:19:54 ◼ ► interest in it is that I have raised an eyebrow at some other marketing, and I can't wait for
00:19:59 ◼ ► people who are not getting a sneak peek from the company to actually find out what it is and how
00:20:07 ◼ ► it really works, because I would love to know the choices they've made to allow them to make
00:20:14 ◼ ► the claims they're making, but for me, there's zero interest. I would rather use an iPad,
00:20:21 ◼ ► and as an e-reader, I would rather use a Kindle or a Kobo or a Books Palma or whatever, right?
00:20:27 ◼ ► Like any of the above, but not... I'm interested. I would love to try the product. Like, I would love
00:20:32 ◼ ► them to send me one. I actually reached out to them and said I would like to try one. Like,
00:20:37 ◼ ► I'm not going to spend the $700 on two of those. Gruber bought one, apparently. Well, the other
00:20:40 ◼ ► thing is that, yeah, I'm also not going to buy one. I think there is, in addition to... I mean,
00:20:46 ◼ ► there is a marking up PDFs market, right? That is one of the things that frustrates me about
00:20:50 ◼ ► the e-reader market is they keep getting bigger and they keep adding pens, and I don't care,
00:20:55 ◼ ► but I understand... But also, like, you know, me and Gray were talking about this on Cortex.
00:20:59 ◼ ► Like, they're doing it, but it's still not good enough. Like, you know, they're making the screens
00:21:04 ◼ ► bigger. They're adding pens, but getting PDFs on a lot of these devices is still very complicated
00:21:09 ◼ ► and, like, not as easy as putting it on an iPad. Right. Right. Advantage of the Kobo is it supports
00:21:14 ◼ ► Google Drive and Dropbox now, which is kind of nice. And it's got a pen, apparently, but I don't
00:21:20 ◼ ► want it and I don't care, right? Anyway, so there... I understand what's happening here,
00:21:24 ◼ ► which is the e-reader market itself is not very big. And so they are trying to find other markets.
00:21:28 ◼ ► And people marking up documents is... And now the pen technology is such that you can get...
00:21:35 ◼ ► You can integrate that into your product and build something that potentially has another market to
00:21:41 ◼ ► it. Now, I think the truth is for marking up documents with a pen, you probably want a much
00:21:46 ◼ ► larger screen than the kind of screen that I want. And this product has it. And that's one way where
00:21:52 ◼ ► this product might be interesting. I mean, you and I both... And it runs Android, which is great.
00:21:56 ◼ ► And it runs Android. That's the way to do this. You know, we know David Sparks. Like, David,
00:22:00 ◼ ► in his attorney job especially, like, one of the things that, like, a lot of attorneys and other
00:22:04 ◼ ► people do lots of paperwork, they use the iPad to do this. Here's the other thing, though, again,
00:22:08 ◼ ► I will say is, yes, very impressive. Long battery life, apparently. Black and white screen. Doesn't
00:22:14 ◼ ► have the big backlight shining in your eyes. Okay, great. I can see why this might be an interesting
00:22:19 ◼ ► use case. Although, again, at that point, I think... Or you could just use an iPad and an
00:22:24 ◼ ► Apple Pencil. But, hey, interesting idea, but not anything I would consider as an e-reader. It's a
00:22:33 ◼ ► totally different category of product that I... Yeah, no, thank you. Next week, it's the draft.
00:22:40 ◼ ► The WWDC draft. We're here already. It's kind of unbelievable. Like, looking at my next couple
00:22:47 ◼ ► of weeks, like, oh, yeah, here we go. It's ramping up now. WWDC is just around the corner. So, next
00:22:50 ◼ ► week on the show, we're going to be drafting. Could be the biggest draft ever. We're actually
00:22:55 ◼ ► going to talk about it in Upgrade Plus. So, go to getupgradeplus.com if you haven't signed up
00:22:58 ◼ ► already. Get longer ad-free episodes of the show. Thank you to everybody that has. We really
00:23:04 ◼ ► appreciate you. But we're actually going to talk about the categories because this one's different.
00:23:09 ◼ ► Obviously, with the introduction of AI and stuff like that, I think we're going to have to... And
00:23:13 ◼ ► VisionOS. We're going to have to talk about how we're going to set our categories. And so, our
00:23:18 ◼ ► picks are usually me and Jason. We did this in a frenzy in Slack. But instead, today, I thought,
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00:25:42 ◼ ► show and all of Relay FM. Room around up time. It's that time again partner. So got a bunch of
00:25:50 ◼ ► stuff for you. I'm gonna start with a report from Mark Germin with some details about WWDC
00:25:57 ◼ ► announcements and his power on newsletter. So got a few things here. Focus in a couple of areas
00:26:02 ◼ ► starting with AI in Apple's platforms mostly in iOS 18 and Mac OS 18 is where 15. They should make
00:26:12 ◼ ► the numbers the same I think. They should. I think they should do that. All the other platforms right
00:26:16 ◼ ► it's the same they like tvOS will be tvOS 18. So why is Mac OS 15? Let's just make it 18 because
00:26:23 ◼ ► really technically Mac OS is on to like version 50 or something right? Yeah it's because the year
00:26:29 ◼ ► that they went to Mac to iOS 11 and I said spinal tap would appear WWDC. They said no no no no we're
00:26:37 ◼ ► just going to keep it at 10 when that was the perfect year to make it Mac OS 11 and because of
00:26:41 ◼ ► that we're now in this ridiculous situation where they waited four years and it's just come on for
00:26:45 ◼ ► three years. So yeah. So Apple will have a system on devices that will decide if a task needs to be
00:26:52 ◼ ► completed on device or in the cloud depending on the complexity of it. A quote from Mark Germin,
00:26:58 ◼ ► "Most of the on device features will be supported by chips released in the last year or so. The cloud
00:27:03 ◼ ► component will be powered by M2 Ultra chips located in data centers." I had a thought this
00:27:08 ◼ ► morning that made me upset. I don't want to upgrade my MacBook Air, my M2 MacBook Air. I don't want to
00:27:15 ◼ ► do that. I really hope I don't have to do that. Right. Yeah. Yeah it would yeah that there may be
00:27:24 ◼ ► some consternation if the Mac like I understand if they say only iPhone 15 Pro and later gets this
00:27:33 ◼ ► and otherwise it's in the cloud like I would understand that and there's an Apple Watch
00:27:37 ◼ ► better performance mention that he has here and I thought well that's going to be for the on device
00:27:42 ◼ ► engine which only runs on the Series 9 and the Ultra 2 right. I see it like okay great but yeah
00:27:50 ◼ ► they say oh this can't run locally on an M1 or M2 Mac you know there may be rioting in the streets.
00:27:58 ◼ ► Yeah I imagine uh stage manager all over again. Yeah yeah. Siri will be upgraded with quote
00:28:07 ◼ ► more natural sounding interactions uh with better performance on Apple Watch for completing tasks
00:28:15 ◼ ► that are focused on platform as well. This we spent some time on this last week I think I
00:28:21 ◼ ► think there are two problems with Siri. We talk about the problems with Siri. I think there are
00:28:29 ◼ ► two problems with Siri when people have problems with Siri. One of them is you just try you're
00:28:34 ◼ ► just trying to get everyone's devices to go off. Why are you saying it so many times? Okay well I
00:28:40 ◼ ► mean whatever turn off well Mike the fact is everybody's turned it off so um just real quick
00:28:47 ◼ ► can I just I just said hey watch out I'm sorry uh Adina was watching Lute on Apple TV and they
00:28:56 ◼ ► someone said Siri and it set her phone off. Oh man it's like even the product integrations are
00:29:01 ◼ ► ruining people's experiences. Yeah you cannot have you cannot have the hey and it goes off too well.
00:29:06 ◼ ► My my dog is named the two vowel sounds of the trigger phrase so I've had that happen a lot.
00:29:16 ◼ ► Anyway um here are the two problems with un with that device that I set off 10 times in the last
00:29:22 ◼ ► two minutes. One problem is the conversational problem right it's that you have to code your
00:29:31 ◼ ► question and word it in a right in the right way it's really uncomfortable to do sometimes and if
00:29:36 ◼ ► it missed if it doesn't understand it or it gets it wrong it just fires off some sort of ridiculous
00:29:42 ◼ ► thing and then you can't really get it back you kind of have to start again and it's very
00:29:46 ◼ ► frustrating so something like an llm and that would be better at understanding your context
00:29:53 ◼ ► and being able to answer follow-up questions and being able to focus and and correct things and
00:29:59 ◼ ► have a conversation with you that gets to the result of what it needs you know to give you
00:30:04 ◼ ► the result that you want great like that's so that's one part of it and then the other part
00:30:09 ◼ ► of it is bad results right which is I think part of the first part but also has to do with the data
00:30:14 ◼ ► sources and how and the fact that it punts things to the web too often right and things like or or
00:30:21 ◼ ► or can't answer it on a home pod because you've got to have your phone there right so I feel like
00:30:27 ◼ ► the the way that this report is phrased I read that as being that they're trying to make the
00:30:32 ◼ ► conversation with the agent better which is great yeah that leaves us with the other part which is
00:30:45 ◼ ► are the data sources in siri sorry uh okay are they are they good enough if the agent is more
00:30:54 ◼ ► intelligent maybe but I still think that there are those things where it's like oh I need to look on
00:30:59 ◼ ► the web for this uh and that may be that's the that's the part two and is that where partners
00:31:05 ◼ ► with other llms come in and is it again there's the mystery of llm integration which you know would
00:31:12 ◼ ► would they would see no you can say I wasn't saying you couldn't say it was just funny to
00:31:17 ◼ ► me that you said it like five times in a row yeah well I'm just trying to beat it into submission
00:31:22 ◼ ► would uh would siri be able to use some of those llms as a data source and say hey I am now asking
00:31:30 ◼ ► you to give me this thing but you know who I am right and you know what I want right and then have
00:31:35 ◼ ► it come back you know with something that it parses and says I talked to my friend GPT and it
00:31:42 ◼ ► says this uh would that be better so I mean we'll we'll see how they the story of how they choose to
00:31:49 ◼ ► implement this uh but I still get a little bit of the willies that we're gonna get a siri that we're
00:31:54 ◼ ► gonna be like finally they fix siri and then we're gonna look at what they do and we're gonna go did
00:31:57 ◼ ► you fix it really uh mark says xcode will get ai enhancements this is what we're all thinking
00:32:05 ◼ ► that happened last year right like yeah this is the co-pilot thing which is that programmers have
00:32:11 ◼ ► and I mean I've done this with python scripts like it's you look at code repositories and samples of
00:32:17 ◼ ► code and how things do things and instead of finding a web you know okay let's just say it
00:32:21 ◼ ► instead of going to stack overflow and finding the three questions that seem to be your question and
00:32:26 ◼ ► the answers and trying to parse which one actually works and makes sense for you and there's a jerk
00:32:31 ◼ ► in the comments who says no you did it wrong and then this one gets upvotes and all of that
00:32:35 ◼ ► what it turns out that uh an ai parsing all of those and just giving you the answer can be more
00:32:43 ◼ ► efficient maybe not more effective but often more effective and so having more of those tools in the
00:32:49 ◼ ► development tools totally makes sense because it's it's kind of a proven concept this can be helpful
00:32:54 ◼ ► for programmers ai generated emoji so based on conversations that you're having the system may
00:33:05 ◼ ► be able to create new emoji that do not exist that you could use yeah now my expectation is this is
00:33:13 ◼ ► not emoji these are stickers we've been here before yes although I did have that moment
00:33:19 ◼ ► because you and I both know jeremy birch uh emoji pedia emeritus yep and so we know a lot of things
00:33:27 ◼ ► about emojis that most people don't know including the fact that many emojis are actually put together
00:33:31 ◼ ► these days with combinations of unicode code points so instead of saying there's a code number
00:33:38 ◼ ► for firefighter male and a code number for firefighter female and a code number for fire
00:33:45 ◼ ► fighter neutral gender instead there's a code for firefighter and then you follow it with a
00:33:53 ◼ ► male symbol or a female symbol or a neutral symbol and or maybe the firefighter is neutral by default
00:34:00 ◼ ► and you modify it but regardless that a lot of emoji are built that way so you end up with I
00:34:05 ◼ ► think the lime emoji is literally the lemon followed by green square yeah and it turns into
00:34:11 ◼ ► that so I did have a moment where I thought would they do that would they just sort of like say what
00:34:17 ◼ ► are all the other ways I can combine emojis and build art for them and then just like do it that
00:34:21 ◼ ► way but I think you're right probably it's stickers probably they've got an emoji generator I'm basing
00:34:26 ◼ ► this on all of apple's look at this emoji we made started with me emoji then likes to stickers in
00:34:33 ◼ ► general like they've always added them as stickers and of course now you have the emoji as stickers
00:34:38 ◼ ► thing anyway as I as of iOS 17 I can imagine that it will create things that look like emoji but put
00:34:45 ◼ ► them in your images yeah right because again they're not going to be able to send them as
00:34:50 ◼ ► actual emoji because it wouldn't work actual emoji don't exist yeah and also if you were sending that
00:34:55 ◼ ► to a different platform or in a different app like a previous version of the OS yeah so it would just
00:35:01 ◼ ► there'll be stickers and I reckon there will be smart recaps of notifications messages web pages
00:35:07 ◼ ► notes and other types of content so you can ask the platform like hey you know what was that
00:35:13 ◼ ► message or catch me up that kind of thing I expect Mark Gurman says that apple will not have
00:35:19 ◼ ► a chatbot of its own it will rely on partnerships this is not stated by Gurman or really anyone yet
00:35:25 ◼ ► as to how exactly this will work like is it right what you were saying earlier that that siri will
00:35:30 ◼ ► go and ask or is it that the chatgpt app is installed on your phone or is you know like or
00:35:35 ◼ ► you just get thrown to a ui who knows this is what I was thinking is I actually even wonder if it
00:35:40 ◼ ► might be something you wouldn't necessarily need partnerships but like if it's integrated with the
00:35:44 ◼ ► system there could be it's in spotlight or siri will ask I was thinking the other way you could
00:35:52 ◼ ► do this is have an API and let because one of the things that some people want is to like trigger
00:35:59 ◼ ► this from other places so maybe you could even build an API that's like if you if you offer a
00:36:03 ◼ ► chatbot service you do this API and then people can choose their default chatbot and it we we
00:36:10 ◼ ► built some UI around it but it's a real question it's an interesting idea of how do they deeply
00:36:14 ◼ ► integrate this because the chatbots are on iOS now they're just not super integrated they're just
00:36:18 ◼ ► apps but how does apple choose to integrate them if it chooses to grant them some special privileges
00:36:25 ◼ ► that you know that because they're going up against android where gemini is going to be deeply
00:36:30 ◼ ► integrated so that's that's the challenge that they've got is how do we provide users with
00:36:36 ◼ ► whatever it is that they want from these things so that we don't look like we're behind google in
00:36:43 ◼ ► terms of the integration I mean as well like since we since our last show microsoft showed up a bunch
00:36:49 ◼ ► of stuff of their own which is very interesting you know the new devices throughout windows windows
00:36:55 ◼ ► that they're using and I the the last thing that is mentioned by mark german is that these AI
00:37:02 ◼ ► features may be labeled as a preview either up until release or post post release as the more
00:37:09 ◼ ► we're finding out the more we're getting these little reports and then the more we're seeing
00:37:15 ◼ ► from apple's competitors the more I'm like oh boy I don't think this is gonna go very well
00:37:21 ◼ ► I remain hopeful that there's stuff that we haven't seen and the implementations may be
00:37:26 ◼ ► really cool but apple's competitors are going very hard on this and and I'm not sure how they're
00:37:34 ◼ ► gonna stack up well think about so think about how long it takes to build these things you know
00:37:41 ◼ ► longer than a few months and the german report is that apple was caught flat-footed and had to
00:37:48 ◼ ► change direction last year so if apple yeah if we look at the announcements at wwc and are like
00:37:57 ◼ ► I mean there's something there but they're still not at the level of what google's doing in android
00:38:01 ◼ ► and what microsoft is doing in windows I I don't think that that's a an oh boy they blew it now
00:38:12 ◼ ► I think that's more like we now can see the fact that they were caught flat-footed a year ago
00:38:20 ◼ ► because of the the catch-up time so like it's like even apple can't go like microsoft and google had
00:38:27 ◼ ► such a head start because they took this more seriously microsoft you were with open ai and
00:38:33 ◼ ► google with its own stuff and then apple was like oh geez uh okay we need to do this now and nine
00:38:39 ◼ ► months later I would not be surprised if it's the best they could do in nine months but they're not
00:38:46 ◼ ► going to be able to necessarily match if they were truly caught flat-footed what microsoft and google
00:38:51 ◼ ► have been doing because microsoft and google were not caught flat-footed they have been at a
00:38:55 ◼ ► at a run already and that means apple will be it will expose how far behind apple was last year
00:39:04 ◼ ► right is what I'm saying and that is something we don't know for sure but the reports suggest that
00:39:10 ◼ ► they are and and up to now we've been like well is apple behind because there's nothing really out
00:39:14 ◼ ► there but when you see how gemini is integrated with android and you see what microsoft is doing
00:39:18 ◼ ► with it with copilot this summer it may become apparently clear exactly how far behind apple is
00:39:25 ◼ ► and then you know I think can they catch up sure I think they can but that's I think what we're
00:39:32 ◼ ► going to learn this summer is how how slow did apple get off the blocks when they realized that
00:39:39 ◼ ► they needed to actually integrate this everywhere like their competitors mar german also says that
00:39:46 ◼ ► the some of the homescreen improvements that we'll see is the free placements of apps and widgets
00:39:51 ◼ ► which you'd heard before and the ability for a user to change the color of app icons developers
00:39:57 ◼ ► will probably hate this but this is the this is the aesthetic thing where I mean they're already
00:40:01 ◼ ► doing this like I saw somebody say I hate this and then somebody else said yeah but they're already
00:40:06 ◼ ► doing it right because we know that people have all sorts of ways of building you build a shortcut
00:40:11 ◼ ► to an app that uses a custom icon and then you can have all of your icons be green or all of your
00:40:16 ◼ ► icons be pink or have them color coded I love the example the bloomberg-iest of examples which is
00:40:23 ◼ ► finance apps can all be green like money oh yes oh you you're you're letting your monocle and top
00:40:30 ◼ ► hat slip a little bit there mr bloomberg but uh sure a patented mike hurley guarantee on this one
00:40:37 ◼ ► okay this will be an api and only independent developers will opt in that is what I that's
00:40:43 ◼ ► what I think oh oh the developers are gonna have to opt in to allow uh customization of their icons
00:40:50 ◼ ► you know interesting okay that's an well put that on the draft I know google did it with material
00:40:55 ◼ ► you that's great that's fine I don't think that's how I think it will be different I think that this
00:41:00 ◼ ► is how Apple will do it because I just can't imagine a scenario because I also don't think
00:41:05 ◼ ► that it really makes any sense like a brand chooses its colors right and then they're just
00:41:10 ◼ ► like oh forget it like you know what if an apple podcast they were like opt in and people could
00:41:15 ◼ ► change the look of your show artworks and no I don't want people to do that we have chosen how
00:41:19 ◼ ► we want our show artwork to look exactly so here is my counter prediction you're like I love it
00:41:26 ◼ ► counter prediction um here it is what they're gonna do is they're gonna have one of the sessions
00:41:31 ◼ ► and I love these sessions I watch these videos I love them where they're like you know it's
00:41:35 ◼ ► the videos that are changes in emoji and changes in how icons work and and and uh changes in widget
00:41:42 ◼ ► design I love those design they're design sessions where it's like technical but it's also design
00:41:47 ◼ ► I bet that they will have a new approach to app icons that will say um you know users can choose
00:42:03 ◼ ► alternate icons for each palette or designate a layer of your icon as customizable and that the
00:42:14 ◼ ► system will change that layer based on the palette that's you know what that makes sense actually
00:42:21 ◼ ► where it's like oh by the way this isn't a choice but I think you're I think you're right that it's
00:42:27 ◼ ► not going to be like would you like us to just run a filter on the slack icon to turn it into a
00:42:32 ◼ ► different color I don't think they will go that far but it'll be more like hey colorful icons
00:42:39 ◼ ► everybody's getting in the game here's how you participate and it's either you can meticulously
00:42:44 ◼ ► choose every single icon or you can do this thing where you're like I gotta here's this layer you
00:42:51 ◼ ► know the letter in our logo can be any color right it's like okay great wonderful okay that's
00:42:56 ◼ ► an I like that I like that so maybe it's time to lawyer up clunk clunk oh I like that I like that
00:43:06 ◼ ► it's a law and order kind of thing right yeah that's fun that's fun I like the sound effects
00:43:13 ◼ ► that go with every chapter I had a friend text me the other day and say oh I was listening to upgrade
00:43:18 ◼ ► I haven't listened in a while and there's a lot there's a lot of uh a lot of segments not yet
00:43:25 ◼ ► that's verticals that's verticals we've been we've been doing it since the beginning though
00:43:28 ◼ ► the verticals we kind of went away from it a little bit now we got more now we got more
00:43:32 ◼ ► verticals we're back with the verticals I love structure I know you don't do in my podcasts
00:43:38 ◼ ► makes amazing in the world of technology there are two parties the regulators and apple this is their
00:43:45 ◼ ► story clunk clunk on bluebird profiled the developers of the alt store and their journey
00:43:52 ◼ ► so far in this article it mentions that alt store pow has already passed a hundred thousand downloads
00:43:58 ◼ ► in the eu yeah this is a fun story if you've got access to bloomberg I highly recommend it
00:44:03 ◼ ► um mr bloomberg with his top hat in this monocle um it is great the thing I love about it the most
00:44:10 ◼ ► is that is that riley test it and his business partner uh they're like in their mid to late 20s
00:44:22 ◼ ► they've just been living in europe for a while and like going airbnb's in various places they're in
00:44:27 ◼ ► amsterdam they're in copenhagen they're in dublin they're like and there's literally a quote in the
00:44:33 ◼ ► story that's like I want to go home yeah but but they they want to they want to do this it's a it's
00:44:39 ◼ ► a fun it's just a fun look into all the effort that is required to try and make this happen and
00:44:46 ◼ ► it's got that really nice moment where they're about ready to launch and then apple says oh
00:44:50 ◼ ► delta emulators can just be in the store and they're like ah which really hits home about
00:44:55 ◼ ► how much that was a move to cut them off at the knees from launching their thing by putting it in
00:45:03 ◼ ► the regular app store but they did it they're like okay we'll put in the app store and then of course
00:45:07 ◼ ► it goes to number one uh yeah it's a good story it's a really good story but I just like the idea
00:45:12 ◼ ► that they want to go home but they can't because they gotta keep doing things in europe uh shane is
00:45:17 ◼ ► the name of riley's shane yeah they need to I think they just need to hire a uh I they probably
00:45:23 ◼ ► don't have the they need to hire a part-time like european beard right like I mean I mean it's
00:45:29 ◼ ► possible right like maybe I who knows what they may have actually ended up having to do or will
00:45:35 ◼ ► end up having to do but you can't test this stuff outside of europe is the is the thing because your
00:45:42 ◼ ► phones are then I mean I guess yeah right I don't know shuttling back and forth you can't you can't
00:45:47 ◼ ► actually my understanding is that a lot of this stuff is not testable outside of europe if you're
00:45:51 ◼ ► a developer so because apple's not apple's not gonna make it easy big surprise that's the other
00:45:57 ◼ ► thing that I really got out of it and then there's another note you're about to mention which is it's
00:46:02 ◼ ► very clear too that this is apple making it as difficult as possible every step of the way because
00:46:07 ◼ ► this is your malicious compliance right which is they'll do it but they're not going to be happy
00:46:11 ◼ ► and they're not going to make it easy uh on mastodon riley tester has said that the notarization
00:46:16 ◼ ► process from apple is taking multiple weeks even though apple would originally said they could
00:46:21 ◼ ► expect notarization to happen within a few hours yeah that's not good how about that good this is
00:46:27 ◼ ► not good yeah I think riley suggested that if you don't like this contact the european commission
00:46:32 ◼ ► which is like yeah I mean you should people should do it and and I hope that I hope that
00:46:36 ◼ ► they're making a complaint too because this isn't right I was listening to last week's accidental
00:46:41 ◼ ► tech podcast and um they had a conversation about emulators and not things we talked about about
00:46:48 ◼ ► like not having a just-in-time compiler be allowed and all that stuff and it just struck me again
00:46:52 ◼ ► that the real issue here is if I have to like completely simplify it is it's a different thing
00:47:10 ◼ ► put it in front of the platform's council of you know of elders and have them say yes or no
00:47:17 ◼ ► and if they say no you have zero recourse right like if you say no your thing is dead because
00:47:26 ◼ ► it doesn't run anywhere else it's built for that platform and they won't tell you up front whether
00:47:32 ◼ ► you can have it and and I mean I guess the story was that riley talked to somebody at apple and
00:47:37 ◼ ► probably in developer relations who said no that'll no problem that'll be great and then
00:47:41 ◼ ► he submitted delta and they're like no you can't do this so why because we say so okay um which is
00:47:47 ◼ ► the same with that clip utility which the bloomberg article says um why is this not allowed um because
00:47:54 ◼ ► apple says so and then apple's response is something like oh apple totally allows clipboard
00:47:58 ◼ ► managers that protect the privacy of the user by which they mean don't work um and I just this is
00:48:04 ◼ ► the this is the core frustration that goes to all of this which is all of this would be solved
00:48:09 ◼ ► all of this would be solved if there was a fallback like there is on the mac where the default is
00:48:20 ◼ ► everything's locked up tight everything comes through the app store that's your only option
00:48:25 ◼ ► but there is a secondary world where you can turn on and get all of the scare dialogues and
00:48:33 ◼ ► apps can live there too like on the mac and apple doesn't want to do that but like when when I was
00:48:42 ◼ ► thinking about riley's delta story I thought oh wow you know the fact is today if you get rejected
00:48:47 ◼ ► with your app that you built on ios apple says no well you can't release that app except in europe
00:48:55 ◼ ► where you totally can and i thought wow see see there's a little glimmer there of what this is
00:49:00 ◼ ► and i know there are lots of issues and a lot of people have strong opinions about this but i think
00:49:04 ◼ ► fundamentally that's that's what this is about is apple like why invest in developing for this
00:49:12 ◼ ► platform if apple can capriciously kick you out at any point um you know and without without
00:49:17 ◼ ► recourse right again it's not i have no problem with apple saying no we don't want this kind of
00:49:22 ◼ ► app in our store great we don't want it in our default platform because of security reasons it's
00:49:27 ◼ ► locked down fine but when there's no alternative and in the eu there is now so that's that's good
00:49:34 ◼ ► but i don't i don't like the idea that yes oh well we have this you know this is this is actually was
00:49:39 ◼ ► the huge fear about um the huge fear when they did notarization on the mac was that apple would use
00:49:46 ◼ ► it as a de facto app approval system and fortunately notarization on the mac has actually been very
00:49:55 ◼ ► outside the app store was well it's going to be more intensive of our process which i can see the
00:50:02 ◼ ► why right like it's not fundamentally unreasonable however multiple weeks per app is completely
00:50:12 ◼ ► unreasonable yep the set app mobile app marketplace has entered invite only beta as they prepare to
00:50:20 ◼ ► launch their subscription model offering this summer the verge got a look at it and wrote a big
00:50:25 ◼ ► piece about it at least at launch setup have said that they will not be charging for their app
00:50:30 ◼ ► marketplace they're going to be paying the ctf for marketplace installs themselves so like the 50
00:50:35 ◼ ► cents that you need to install the app marketplace setup will just pay that they told the verge that
00:50:41 ◼ ► they don't expect app developers to pass the 1 million install threshold for the ctf like it's
00:50:47 ◼ ► just not something they're expecting is going to happen very often if at all and i'm sure that
00:50:51 ◼ ► they're using their own data of what set up on the mac and set they have like a version on ios
00:50:57 ◼ ► which i'm not 100 sure exactly how that works like i know it does work i know existing apps and
00:51:01 ◼ ► there's coupons or something it's weird i don't know how they get through that but they do mac
00:51:07 ◼ ► poor who makes setup have confirmed that there will be over 30 apps available when the open beta
00:51:13 ◼ ► launches uh in a little bit in the summer there's like 17 apps are now yeah yeah so this is you pay
00:51:19 ◼ ► you pay for a subscription to set up like you do now you pay for a subscription to the setup
00:51:24 ◼ ► at marketplace and um all the apps in it are free at that point right you you you buy them through
00:51:30 ◼ ► your subscription instead yep and we may soon learn if and how all of this work with the dma
00:51:38 ◼ ► will scale to other countries nine to five mac is reporting that apple may soon need to offer
00:51:43 ◼ ► alternative app marketplaces in japan legislation is currently being debated in parliament that
00:51:48 ◼ ► could result in a similar set of requirements to the dma basically uh not default app stores
00:51:55 ◼ ► there should be other payment options etc etc yeah it is simultaneously dma providing a road map for
00:52:02 ◼ ► other i mean we said this was going to happen a road map for other regions other regulators to do
00:52:06 ◼ ► what they do it's easy and then more than that well and more than that you know what apple's built
00:52:12 ◼ ► right yeah so you if you if you build something that more or less follows what's going on in
00:52:16 ◼ ► europe apple doesn't really have a leg to stand on in terms of pleading like oh no it will take us
00:52:21 ◼ ► time to do this it's like well you already built it so build it for us now and that that was always
00:52:28 ◼ ► the danger that is the thing about what the eu should be congratulated for is that they were able
00:52:34 ◼ ► for whatever reason to be able to put the right amount of pressure on apple to make them do it
00:52:38 ◼ ► and google and that right and all the other companies that the dma will or will not affect
00:52:43 ◼ ► like that it is quite impressive that they were able to do it yeah and now that apple has built
00:52:48 ◼ ► because remember these rumors i mean this stuff was discussed more than a year ago that they were
00:52:55 ◼ ► going to do this and it was going to take until you know the following year which is now um but
00:53:02 ◼ ► the beauty of it is they the eu made them build it made them spend a big part of the ios development
00:53:07 ◼ ► cycle on these features and now they exist and now other regions can just say i want that and that
00:53:14 ◼ ► that's always been apple's greatest danger is that once the once the features have been implemented
00:53:20 ◼ ► it's a lot easier for everybody else to just say yeah give me that i want that the marketplace cat
00:53:26 ◼ ► is out of the bag um meow uh apple's also been looking at a new segment marketplace cat no i
00:53:32 ◼ ► don't think so uh apple's also been lowering up they're going to challenge the 1.8 billion euro
00:53:44 ◼ ► services like spotify they're filing a lawsuit at the eu general court this one was obvious that
00:53:49 ◼ ► they were going to do this because that is a whopping fine uh and apple has also filed a pre-motion letter
00:53:56 ◼ ► to ask a dismissal of the u.s department of justice's antitrust case against them apple is saying
00:54:02 ◼ ► that the market share definition is wrong that they do not have monopoly power and they have not
00:54:07 ◼ ► harmed consumers basically what are the three things for antitrust that they don't they're not
00:54:11 ◼ ► doing any of them uh this is all expected as part of the process that we're going to go through you
00:54:17 ◼ ► know when we were talking about this is going to take multiple years this is part of why it's like
00:54:21 ◼ ► it was obvious it was to happen um there will be many amounts of back and forth now to see if it
00:54:26 ◼ ► will not be dismissed we'll find out later on this year or early next year as to whether a dismissal
00:54:31 ◼ ► will work for apple or not if it doesn't the trial stuff begins yeah and that's why we ordered art
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00:56:14 ◼ ► uh varies widely um there was a span of about a week and a half where i didn't use it at all and
00:56:21 ◼ ► then i was like oh yeah vision pro let's get back on and then you know and got it started back up
00:56:25 ◼ ► again um but i did actually have i'd say yeah i'd say it's maybe a couple of days a week um i
00:56:33 ◼ ► i had some there's some work going on in our house and it's and i work at our house so it's extremely
00:56:41 ◼ ► disruptive extremely disruptive to my work and at one point i needed to write i think it was a mac
00:56:50 ◼ ► world column and i just like i had to blot out the world and i i got the bluetooth keyboard and
00:56:59 ◼ ► i actually sat in the bedroom on the bed with my headphones in my airpods noise canceling music
00:57:04 ◼ ► playing for some of it and wrote that whole article on the vision pro which i hadn't done in a
00:57:12 ◼ ► in maybe a month um and it was really great i was reminded and then when i was done i was like i'm
00:57:17 ◼ ► just gonna stay in here for a little while and look at some stuff and all of that and be reminded
00:57:21 ◼ ► about it i think the challenge with vision pro right now for me is i need more reasons to put
00:57:26 ◼ ► it on yes i need more kind of things and this is the challenge with the platform right now is
00:57:31 ◼ ► it needs more juice it needs more content it needs more reasons to use it it needs more features and
00:57:39 ◼ ► i you know i i it's fine right like i get it it is a uh a new platform that's really just kind
00:57:48 ◼ ► of starting but that's about that's sort of where i am with it is if there's new content i will go
00:57:52 ◼ ► watch it and if there's a very particular thing where i want to kind of block out the world i will
00:57:57 ◼ ► use it but um also it's a little of that is artificial like the ipad pro took up all of my
00:58:03 ◼ ► bandwidth for a couple of weeks where i just use the ipad pro all the time and and anytime i would
00:58:08 ◼ ► be like well i could do this on the like i was watching i was gonna watch something on the vision
00:58:13 ◼ ► pro and then i thought i i gotta watch this on the oled screen on the ipad pro because i need that as
00:58:17 ◼ ► another data point i need more video that i'm watching on the ipad pro so some of it is that how
00:58:21 ◼ ► are you doing with yours uh i use mine once or twice a week for a few hours at a time usually and
00:58:28 ◼ ► and i similarly to you i use it more when there's a thing that gets me there and then i'll use it
00:58:35 ◼ ► for a long period of time right yes and so for me i've watched every episode of xmen 97 on division
00:58:42 ◼ ► pro so every wednesday i was sitting down watching uh an episode for 30 minutes and then using it for
00:58:48 ◼ ► like another hour an hour and a half like because when i'm in the vision pro i just want to spend
00:58:54 ◼ ► time in it like i love what i say it's the perfect noodling computer i'm like over here checking this
00:58:59 ◼ ► message i'm over here looking at this like i really like it like if imagine how like for a
00:59:04 ◼ ► lot of people i expect you may be similar to me uh if you if you when you're on an ipad you're kind
00:59:10 ◼ ► of like spending some time on it you're like checking what's on this app what's on that app
00:59:14 ◼ ► what's in my rss like that's how i love to use division pro it's like the ultimate ipad in that
00:59:20 ◼ ► way with like and i find it very engaging like the operating system looks really great like it's kind
00:59:26 ◼ ► of general procrastinating or as i like to call work procrastinating like you're just kind of
00:59:32 ◼ ► you're doing little jobs it's the stuff i would be doing anyway but i'm doing it here instead of there
00:59:36 ◼ ► and it's fantastic for that i i agree 100 with your perception which is i need a reason to put
00:59:41 ◼ ► it on but once i put it on i'm like oh yeah well while i'm here i'm gonna do this thing and that
00:59:45 ◼ ► thing and all that because it's really fun but you do need it's enough of a leap where like i
00:59:49 ◼ ► don't have it like hanging out where i'm like i'm just gonna flip this thing right on it's more like
00:59:53 ◼ ► am i going to use the vision pro yeah i'm gonna do that i'm gonna get set somewhere with it and
00:59:56 ◼ ► i'm gonna put it on i'm gonna get it all hooked up and i'm gonna be ready to go and once i'm over
01:00:02 ◼ ► that hump i'm like i don't want to leave honestly for for some period of time and similarly for me
01:00:07 ◼ ► in here if i have to write something longer than an email i'm putting the vision pro on because
01:00:11 ◼ ► i find it to be really helpful for helping me stay focused because it's so visually engaging and like
01:00:17 ◼ ► audio engaging to use so but there is new content so this is one of the one of the reasons i wanted
01:00:24 ◼ ► to talk today is there's three things content wise which for the vision pro is like it's like ice
01:00:31 ◼ ► water in the desert right now so the first thing i saw sigmund judge who's the host of magic rays
01:00:38 ◼ ► of light on max stories on mastodon said that the experience immersive trailer been updated so this
01:00:45 ◼ ► is like the sizzle reel and this it's all new there's so much stuff that's in this now so they
01:00:53 ◼ ► have um more sports stuff so there is a golf shot there is uh content from the super bowl wow and
01:01:00 ◼ ► the nbr all-star nba all-star game wow in this now there's more soccer there's more human interest
01:01:07 ◼ ► stuff there's like hot air balloons and there's people uh wild swimming and there's more wildlife
01:01:12 ◼ ► content there's so much more stuff it's like a new sizzle reel it seems like they're getting
01:01:20 ◼ ► ready for a bit of a relaunch maybe to more people like there's a ton of content yeah that is not
01:01:27 ◼ ► available in full form right so like the original immersive trailer i think everything that was in
01:01:34 ◼ ► there essentially except some of the sports stuff but that all came out in the episode ones of each
01:01:40 ◼ ► of those like different immersive content but there was a ton of stuff in this one that isn't
01:01:45 ◼ ► available anywhere else nice like you can't like one of the nba all-star shots you're at courtside
01:01:51 ◼ ► which is what people wanted right you're sitting at courtside and you can look around and you're
01:01:54 ◼ ► watching them what's really great there's this one shot where uh someone misses a pass and the
01:02:00 ◼ ► ball hits the camera and like it cuts at that moment but it's like so perfect just so happening
01:02:05 ◼ ► at the ball i haven't seen this this is great this is all new go watch it it's really great
01:02:10 ◼ ► they also released um the second episode of the adventure series so the adventure series the first
01:02:16 ◼ ► high line is the high line fjords the first one yeah this one is of a parkour group in paris
01:02:22 ◼ ► interesting and terrifying because you're up there watching these guys make their jumps and
01:02:29 ◼ ► it's really well done i i liked this more than the highlining one it's really really good i
01:02:36 ◼ ► was like my like my heart was pounding watching it it was very very good but it's not all apple
01:02:43 ◼ ► there's also this is announced a couple of weeks ago the trailer is out now uh what if it's a marvel
01:02:50 ◼ ► experience ilm interactive a marvel worked together to produce this it's so me and you have both
01:02:59 ◼ ► actually experienced this we both are on the beta we can only talk about the intro of it right now
01:03:05 ◼ ► it's a very very early impressions we'll actually maybe talk more about it next week um i think so
01:03:10 ◼ ► so it is some what if is an animated series on disney plus uh which is based on a comic series
01:03:18 ◼ ► where it's basically what if what if you took things that happened in the marvel timeline and
01:03:24 ◼ ► did them in another direction so like what if peggy carter became captain britain rather than
01:03:30 ◼ ► steve rogers becoming captain america exactly one of the big stories in the like the what if show
01:03:36 ◼ ► for example um this is a part movie part you're involved in it um you can watch the trailer you
01:03:46 ◼ ► put the trailer and some impressions and six colors like this is exactly the kind of thing
01:03:51 ◼ ► that we were hoping for like it's fun the fidelity is fantastic you're using hand tracking to like
01:03:58 ◼ ► make spells right like you're casting dr strange like spells it's really cool yeah wong wong
01:04:03 ◼ ► appears in the intro and and basically says you know here are some hand gestures and there's the
01:04:09 ◼ ► the and there's like a guide but it's an in-universe guide it's like the hand of agamotto
01:04:14 ◼ ► is going to show you how to do this gesture to do a teleport and this gesture and uh that's a super
01:04:19 ◼ ► clever right way of integrating the hand tracking uh that vision pro can do in order to to make it
01:04:25 ◼ ► feel more immersive i i love that they call it an immersive experience because i was trying to
01:04:30 ◼ ► explain this to somebody and i said well they don't want to call it a game because it's not very long
01:04:40 ◼ ► but like an hour long is like the longest piece of immersive content that that's been on vision pro
01:04:45 ◼ ► yep so there's that right like but it's it's interactive i wouldn't call it a game because
01:04:51 ◼ ► it's not a game i don't i again i don't want to go too far but i i don't think you can die
01:04:55 ◼ ► um i think you just play the game or you play the the experience but it for things to happen
01:05:02 ◼ ► you have to do things right it's interactive that's the thing that it is also it's a combination
01:05:09 ◼ ► of things right some of it is spatial video it's 3d video some of it is uh interaction in your
01:05:19 ◼ ► augmented reality space some of it is virtual reality environments all of it's using all of
01:05:25 ◼ ► those different pieces so to call it i know it feels silly to call it a an immersive experience
01:05:31 ◼ ► but i don't know what else you would call it because it is all of those things that you're in
01:05:35 ◼ ► that's essentially what it's like a cartoon episode of what if sometimes sometimes you're
01:05:40 ◼ ► watching it through like a portal sometimes you're in it yeah and uh and some things have
01:05:48 ◼ ► have to happen because you do them and the story progresses and there are twists and turns and
01:05:55 ◼ ► you know there are choices that need to be made and like so it is interactive but i don't want
01:05:59 ◼ ► to overhype it and say like it's totally a what if game because it's not a game it's but it is
01:06:05 ◼ ► interactive and immersive and uh as a it's a really interesting experiment and again it's
01:06:11 ◼ ► like an hour so it's it's actually it's got a if you think of it as a game you'll think oh it's
01:06:18 ◼ ► only it's really short but if you think of it as versus like one of these immersive videos that
01:06:22 ◼ ► they've been doing or something like an app like encounter dinosaurs and this is an app too it's uh
01:06:29 ◼ ► it's it's the most i think that they've done yeah this really it feels like someone at disney
01:06:35 ◼ ► you know or marvel like during the process of of uh them getting to see it initially was like
01:06:42 ◼ ► i have a really cool idea because yeah the doctor strange kind of idea the casting spells of your
01:06:48 ◼ ► hands obviously fits so well for this yeah we'll talk about it more next week because we can't
01:06:53 ◼ ► really talk about the full experience more than just the intro part which is what we're talking
01:06:56 ◼ ► about right now and it's going to be free so if you've got a vision pro on wednesday you can i
01:07:00 ◼ ► think it's wednesday you can get it yeah get it uh and i just want to say getting embargo access
01:07:06 ◼ ► to anything marvel property is like dream come true for me so loved it you had a note too in our
01:07:14 ◼ ► vision pro segment today uh called selling the vision pro have you sold your vision pro jason
01:07:19 ◼ ► what is that no no i i i have talked to some of my uh people i know who work in apple retail
01:07:28 ◼ ► and it sounds like there's been at least semi-officially some recalibration in how they
01:07:38 ◼ ► approach selling the vision pro in retail i think it's interesting because and i think it's good
01:07:46 ◼ ► but it sounds like okay remember when this all started apple did its most apple thing which is
01:07:52 ◼ ► like oh we're gonna bring everybody to cupertino and we're gonna have them all learn this script
01:07:55 ◼ ► and they're gonna need to say it word for word and it's a half hour experience that involves like
01:08:00 ◼ ► you're gonna have to get your eyes scanned and then the things are gonna be assembled in the back
01:08:05 ◼ ► and brought to you and then you're gonna be stepped through by a person a 30-minute experience
01:08:10 ◼ ► and all of that and i i think they've done that now right like they've literally everybody who
01:08:19 ◼ ► wants to see that has seen it um and i think that it's interesting because retail is very sales
01:08:27 ◼ ► focused in a way that maybe they weren't in the early days with ron johnson um where they were
01:08:31 ◼ ► sort of like just the extrusion of apple as a uh an entity and a brand in your community and they're
01:08:37 ◼ ► like it's a place for you to go and like it's not a hard sell place you can just come and use the
01:08:41 ◼ ► computers and they've transitioned into a much more of a that you know everybody is who works
01:08:47 ◼ ► in retail is motivated by sales i would say to some degree or another but what i'm hearing is
01:08:52 ◼ ► that a lot of the feedback that they've gotten is from people who when they're offered a vision pro
01:08:59 ◼ ► experience say they say it's going to be 30 minutes and they're like i don't have that kind
01:09:03 ◼ ► of time and of course they don't you're just somebody in a mall you're walking by you're like
01:09:08 ◼ ► oh yeah i have heard about the vision pro can you show me show it to me and they're like yeah it'll
01:09:12 ◼ ► take about half an hour you're like nope nope nope so my understanding is that um there's been a
01:09:19 ◼ ► little bit of a recalibration which is sort of like if if you can get them in it for five minutes
01:09:25 ◼ ► or 10 minutes great do it and you maybe will keep one here in the drawer that is just like a stock
01:09:33 ◼ ► uh no special lenses and if somebody comes in and they don't need an adjustment you just pull it out
01:09:39 ◼ ► and put it on right you don't make them wait um and so i was thinking about this and it's like
01:09:47 ◼ ► well what what is the goal of the vision pro in the apple retail store and the reason i mentioned
01:09:52 ◼ ► the earlier days where it wasn't all about sales is if i were running the zoo i would do this i
01:10:01 ◼ ► would make it much easier to get that thing on people's faces because first off as a reviewer i
01:10:09 ◼ ► can say i don't recommend the vision pro for people like i don't it costs too much and there's
01:10:14 ◼ ► not enough there the people who should use it are people like us people like developers and people
01:10:19 ◼ ► who really want to be on the cutting edge and don't mind that it costs 3500 it's fine they're
01:10:23 ◼ ► happy to pay that to be to get a taste of the future that's fine but for everybody else like
01:10:27 ◼ ► it's kind of a development platform and a future thing and it's not ready yet so if i'm thinking
01:10:32 ◼ ► about apple retail i'm like we're not going to sell a lot of these and i'm sure that that's what
01:10:36 ◼ ► they found is that they they don't sell a lot of them and that the demo doesn't really um even sell
01:10:43 ◼ ► a lot of them so i would say what is our goal with vision pro in apple retail and i would take a page
01:10:49 ◼ ► from the earlier days of apple retail i would say people coming into apple retail who are curious
01:11:00 ◼ ► about the vision pro let's make it as easy as possible for them to explore it as long as they
01:11:06 ◼ ► want up to the half full half hour and if all i have to do if all i'm able to do is put it on
01:11:13 ◼ ► and let them have a single immersive video experience put it on and have alicia keys start
01:11:19 ◼ ► singing or put it on and see the highline video whatever it is what and then they and then they
01:11:26 ◼ ► take it off and they're like wow that was really cool and they leave the store what have i
01:11:29 ◼ ► accomplished and this is my thought which is they came into the apple store to buy an iphone case or
01:11:35 ◼ ► to buy an ipad or whatever they're curious about vision pro so they're in your ecosystem probably
01:11:40 ◼ ► they're curious about vision pro you let them try it you show off your most impressive thing which
01:11:47 ◼ ► and this is again i think the kind of like mistake about the early days of the vision pro where
01:11:51 ◼ ► they've gone you know they've gone all in on spatial computing as a thing which you know they
01:11:56 ◼ ► may believe in it may also be a combination of what they were able to ship and what they haven't
01:12:00 ◼ ► been able to ship but the fact that it isn't it doesn't really play very many games and the games
01:12:05 ◼ ► it plays are not like the games that you get on a on a quest and it's like no no but it's a computer
01:12:10 ◼ ► right like when somebody's got five minutes to see the vision pro you know what you don't want to do
01:12:16 ◼ ► is show them how to launch an app i i mean you don't okay that's great and all but what i want
01:12:22 ◼ ► to do is if i've got five minutes with somebody is i want to put it on and do the immersive video
01:12:27 ◼ ► thing i want to do the demo reel and then i want to say which one would you like to watch you want
01:12:31 ◼ ► to watch the highline you want to watch elise your keys you won't watch this don't watch the
01:12:34 ◼ ► mls video thing but well you know like what do you want to see i want minimum i just want them to have
01:12:40 ◼ ► some time in immersive video that's what i want because that's that's the platform at its best
01:12:44 ◼ ► that's the thing that's going to blow them away more than anything else i don't need to teach them
01:12:49 ◼ ► to the the window interactions i don't i mean ideally you'd even have it set up to just play
01:12:55 ◼ ► the video when you put it on and i know that's not the full demo i know it's not showing off
01:13:00 ◼ ► all the capabilities of this thing but i think maybe the the goal in retail right now should not
01:13:07 ◼ ► be let's sell a bunch of 3500 headsets that most people don't want it should be you're already in
01:13:12 ◼ ► the apple store you're already in our ecosystem you presumably like apple as a brand here's the
01:13:17 ◼ ► new thing that's totally impractical right now but you can get a taste of it you can see how amazing
01:13:22 ◼ ► it is and then you can keep in the back of your mind oh one yeah apple is where futuristic stuff
01:13:27 ◼ ► happens they are really on this this is why i like apple as a brand is that they're they're looking
01:13:32 ◼ ► at the future and also oh that vision pro i have experienced it if somebody asked me i can say yeah
01:13:36 ◼ ► it was pretty amazing that's good and then yeah maybe in a few years when it's cheaper it's more
01:13:42 ◼ ► affordable there's more stuff for it maybe i will buy one of those because i've experienced it now
01:13:45 ◼ ► and i had a positive experience with it all of that stuff is good none of it leads directly to
01:13:51 ◼ ► a sale in the store um and i think that's okay so if that's what apple is doing here in retail which
01:13:58 ◼ ► is kind of admitting that vision pro is more there to enhance the brand point the way to the future
01:14:04 ◼ ► get people to have a great experience with the product right now because that's the the goal
01:14:10 ◼ ► in five minutes or 10 minutes and not 30 minutes they should totally do that and i hope that that
01:14:17 ◼ ► is a more broad policy that is coming for apple retail because the if you think about the way
01:14:22 ◼ ► that they rolled out the sales where it was 30 minute time slots whole walkthrough how do you
01:14:28 ◼ ► move windows around how do you launch apps it's like first off i totally understand if nobody
01:14:33 ◼ ► wants to spend 30 minutes getting that whole demo lots of us are really busy and we're just in the
01:14:38 ◼ ► mall and i just wanted to get an iphone case but i am curious if you can lower that barrier and get
01:14:44 ◼ ► that thing on their face quickly and have them see an immersive video you've that's a victory even if
01:14:51 ◼ ► they don't buy it it has so many ancillary benefits so i sort of feel like until they've
01:14:56 ◼ ► got something that makes a better case for actually converting to sale that's what they
01:15:01 ◼ ► should do i mean have the 30-minute walkthrough available for people who have the time of course
01:15:07 ◼ ► but go with your best five minutes if you can and and um so i hope that i hope that this is not you
01:15:14 ◼ ► know the people i'm hearing from are sort of like yeah you know we're trying this but we got
01:15:18 ◼ ► indoctrinated in this other way of doing it but now we're doing it this way and like is that good
01:15:21 ◼ ► is that bad and like i think a lot of retail employees are like it's bad because everything
01:15:26 ◼ ► here is about sales now and i think that's culturally going to be a challenge for apple
01:15:31 ◼ ► retail but like this product should not be about sales this product should be about halo it should
01:15:35 ◼ ► be about making people more impressed with apple as a brand as they come in to buy some other apple
01:15:40 ◼ ► product and and also about the future about thinking about vision pro being able to have
01:15:46 ◼ ► a first-hand experience with it the more people who experience that immersive video today are more
01:15:51 ◼ ► people who will be willing to buy a version of it in three years or five years yeah i think it
01:15:56 ◼ ► i agree with this i think it is as important right now to like one person at a time change the public
01:16:01 ◼ ► perception about the product because right now the general public perception is is too expensive
01:16:07 ◼ ► and it is too expensive but wouldn't it be nicer to say like it's really expensive but it's really
01:16:12 ◼ ► cool uh yeah i want one of these i can't afford it but i you know maybe in a few years i'll buy
01:16:16 ◼ ► one because everybody knows the way that apple works i feel like yes you know like if you're
01:16:21 ◼ ► at all even tangentially interested in technology you know there's going to be a cheaper one in the
01:16:26 ◼ ► future that's why that's why i think it's such a great thing to get the demo as a brand extension
01:16:30 ◼ ► as a brand to glow up the brand even more it's like people are already in your store and they
01:16:35 ◼ ► don't have 30 minutes but you can give them five or ten and you can give them an experience that
01:16:39 ◼ ► reinforces their connection to apple as an innovator as a company that makes cool stuff
01:16:44 ◼ ► and as and that the stuff keeps getting cooler yeah even if this isn't for you today it makes
01:16:51 ◼ ► you go oh someday i've seen the future and you presumably will tell people too it's like oh
01:16:58 ◼ ► yeah that vision pro like i like you said i know it's it's too expensive and all but it was amazing
01:17:05 ◼ ► one of these days those those geniuses at apple are gonna do this thing and it's gonna be amazing
01:17:10 ◼ ► when it's 500 i'll buy one and yeah the most most people possible to have that experience should be
01:17:17 ◼ ► the goal and i would wonder if like if you know if you said i can give you five minutes if it's just
01:17:22 ◼ ► going to be video they might not even need to they could create a version you don't even need to do
01:17:26 ◼ ► the eye training exactly that well that's what i was saying is is like you might want to have a few
01:17:32 ◼ ► in in the drawer that literally just go on your face and start playing video and this is like no
01:17:36 ◼ ► setup really you just put it on and as long as you have good enough it measures your pupils yeah and
01:17:42 ◼ ► and it just starts playing yeah yeah and obviously if you need correction then so be it but like if
01:17:46 ◼ ► you don't need correction just make it happen yeah because then it could be like uh uh because that's
01:17:53 ◼ ► also a thing right to get a fuller demo where someone's like wow that was amazing like do you
01:17:57 ◼ ► want to do some more if they say yes like all right we'll just do this quick setup and we'll
01:18:01 ◼ ► start showing you some other stuff like there's there's something interesting in that and you know
01:18:06 ◼ ► what the what if could be a perfect part of the demo too right like that could do that instead
01:18:12 ◼ ► of encounter dinosaurs or something like that i can imagine apple using that kind of stuff
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01:19:58 ◼ ► this show and relay fm it is time for some ask upgrade questions first comes from carl who says
01:20:08 ◼ ► on the mac third-party system utilities and extensions are essential to professional and power
01:20:13 ◼ ► user use apps like alfred clean shot x audio hijack better snap tool and more even if ipad
01:20:27 ◼ ► do you think apple will ever allow the ability for apps like these to become system utilities on the
01:20:33 ◼ ► ipad i don't think that there's a clear demarcation between like a system utility and a utility like
01:20:40 ◼ ► they're all utilities um i think there's a spectrum i think some of them require apple to provide
01:20:47 ◼ ► access i think some of them require apple to change the way that the operating system works
01:20:51 ◼ ► like number one is allow background tasks right that's number one alfred watches the file system
01:20:58 ◼ ► in the background like i don't know if apple would need to make any changes beyond that right
01:21:03 ◼ ► it's an alfred oh no alfred's a launcher i mean a launcher runs in the background waits for a
01:21:07 ◼ ► global keyboard shortcut and launches it right i was thinking hazel which also like watches
01:21:12 ◼ ► the file system for changes you could do that too i think like uh something like clean shot is using
01:21:18 ◼ ► the screenshot api they might need to or screenshot system they might need to but you can capture
01:21:25 ◼ ► video and you can capture screens so that's already a lot of the stuff is already there
01:21:29 ◼ ► and a lot of these things on the mac especially in recent years apple has been creating more
01:21:33 ◼ ► official ways for things to write like audio hijack which now uses apple's official apis and
01:21:39 ◼ ► okay great see because clean shot used to use the accessibility stuff and now it uses the more
01:21:44 ◼ ► newly created screen capture yeah yeah so a lot of this stuff is there's an api or there's a private
01:21:50 ◼ ► api that apple uses um and that i think a lot of this stuff gets solved primarily by allowing
01:21:55 ◼ ► background um apps and allowing global keyboard shortcuts to be assigned which would also be great
01:22:00 ◼ ► for things like shortcuts um so you know whether they would go to the level of something like
01:22:07 ◼ ► better snap tool um or better touch tool or you know there are going to be subsystems and this is
01:22:15 ◼ ► true on the mac to a certain extent there's going to be subsystems that are harder to get access to
01:22:20 ◼ ► but um i think it's a spectrum i think it's a continuum um and i think some of those apps would
01:22:27 ◼ ► be enabled by apple allowing background tasks and allowing apps to to have access to stuff that
01:22:33 ◼ ► apple's own system uh frameworks do and some of them they're already you can do them but you just
01:22:38 ◼ ► can't do them in the in the background right you you got to be the foreground app which limits
01:22:43 ◼ ► their utility so i hope so i don't have faith in it honestly i don't i don't oh yeah like the
01:22:49 ◼ ► chance that apple would allow this i i think well let me put it this way i think saying ipad os
01:23:04 ◼ ► is a better chance than apple saying we're going to let you virtualize mac os i think i think
01:23:12 ◼ ► background tasks is an ipad os feature that would be would add a bunch of utility and they can afford
01:23:17 ◼ ► to do it because of the hardware and i somebody mentioned on a podcast i don't even remember what
01:23:22 ◼ ► podcast it was like the danger of was marco i think it was marco who said on atp said well
01:23:30 ◼ ► the danger is then you've got stuff running in the background and you know it it changes how you
01:23:36 ◼ ► handle um using an ipad because people can send things in the background and it can kill the
01:23:41 ◼ ► battery life and they're like why did this happen and the answer is you mistakenly sent something
01:23:45 ◼ ► to the background or whatever it's like that's true but i would really hate it that the argument
01:23:50 ◼ ► is well we should never allow on any ipad ever backgrounding because it might cause some problems
01:23:56 ◼ ► to some users it's like i mean well what are we even doing here let's just stop let's stop
01:24:00 ◼ ► selling the ipad pro as well because why yeah um i i believe there are ways that apple can find ways
01:24:06 ◼ ► to do this and communicate to users maybe it only works in stage manager mode right maybe it only
01:24:11 ◼ ► works if you turn on a background task maybe it only works if there's a scare dialogue that says
01:24:17 ◼ ► alert alert this app is going to do this and then you know what if it drains your battery a little
01:24:21 ◼ ► bit and you have to learn that so be it but it adds so much functionality that you can't like
01:24:27 ◼ ► hide away from functionality there's already functionality in ipad os that allows added
01:24:31 ◼ ► complexity and i guess the argument is basically we only should have one and that should be the
01:24:36 ◼ ► lowest common denominator of feature set on ipad os and i just don't agree i think that i don't
01:24:42 ◼ ► think it's an insolvable problem for apple and i think that it's a convenient excuse to say oh well
01:24:50 ◼ ► apple can't add features to the ipad because that would confuse people on low-end ipads or it would
01:24:56 ◼ ► make them not understand it's like well if apple does its job that right that won't happen so let's
01:25:01 ◼ ► not assume that apple would do the job badly let's imagine what if the what if apple did the job well
01:25:05 ◼ ► so that ipads that had lots of ram and lots you know right and a powerful processor could do
01:25:12 ◼ ► background tasks and maybe the ipads that don't can't and i'm okay with that like i'm super okay
01:25:18 ◼ ► with that that sort of thing so i hope someday as one of it really would be a thing that would
01:25:24 ◼ ► unlock a lot of possibilities on ipad os how pessimistic am i about it i don't know i mean
01:25:34 ◼ ► mark says given recent controversies regarding scarlett johanson and open ai and google's new
01:25:41 ◼ ► ai summaries feature do you think apple should go back to using the term machine learning to
01:25:47 ◼ ► avoid comparisons uh apple will use the term ai as long as it's convenient yeah what they only
01:25:55 ◼ ► started using ai when it was convenient right like where they've now rebranded their machine learning
01:26:00 ◼ ► things as ai as ai because everybody's like where's apple on ai and apple's like guys we've had all
01:26:05 ◼ ► this stuff for years and they're like no that's machine learning we're asking you where you are
01:26:08 ◼ ► in ai also it's where we're behind on what people think ai is with the chatbot i mean everyone's
01:26:13 ◼ ► behind on what ai actually is right it's almost yeah so we're we're gonna call this ai because
01:26:20 ◼ ► it makes us look better and they will continue to call it ai until the moment that it doesn't
01:26:24 ◼ ► make them look better and they're again people in the streets with torches and pitchforks about ai
01:26:32 ◼ ► start to whistle and disappear into a hedge and john says rumors have it that the update to ios
01:26:40 ◼ ► at wwdc this year as we've spoken about earlier will be the biggest update ever do you think it
01:26:45 ◼ ► will be all ai related upgrades if they are i know i'll be really disappointed i'm sure there's a lot
01:26:53 ◼ ► of other stuff in there we talked about the home screen stuff that's not an ai thing i'm sure there
01:26:57 ◼ ► will be plenty of other functions out there um also there's always new features that are machine
01:27:03 ◼ ► learning based right and that they'll just call them ai things now but like photos the photos app
01:27:08 ◼ ► always has new machine learning based stuff and they added the whole thing with the autocorrect
01:27:13 ◼ ► being based on an llm uh or on a transformer model sorry on a transformer model last year so
01:27:19 ◼ ► like they're going to be three classes of things they're going to be some features that are just
01:27:22 ◼ ► features they're going to be some features that would have been there anyway and they're going
01:27:25 ◼ ► to be called ai because they can be and then there'll be some ai features that'll be the
01:27:29 ◼ ► ones that they'll try to make the most hay over but we'll have to see i i think i think maybe
01:27:34 ◼ ► there'll be fewer major new features than in past years because that are not ai because of the push
01:27:41 ◼ ► for ai but i don't think it's going to be like that there aren't features other than ai features
01:27:47 ◼ ► i would also just say and they'll say this to all up gradients try and keep an open mind like don't
01:27:51 ◼ ► be disappointed before wwdc right that like try not to make your mind that like if they talk about
01:27:58 ◼ ► ai stuff at all i'm going to be disappointed like we know they're going to see what they have first
01:28:03 ◼ ► and see how it makes you feel right like they're they're a different thing like ai is different
01:28:08 ◼ ► right like ai uh like machine learning is different to ai generative content you know like
01:28:16 ◼ ► apple's not necessarily going to be trying to replace artists here they might just be helping
01:28:22 ◼ ► you write a text message quicker right like there aren't emoji artists that will go out of business
01:28:29 ◼ ► because you can create weird emoji stickers like they're still going to you know just keep an open
01:28:34 ◼ ► mind i think you'll be happier that way and just see what they've got before we all decide that
01:28:39 ◼ ► it's going to be a disaster and then judge them if you would like to send in a question of your own
01:28:45 ◼ ► for a future episode very easy to do so go to upgrade feedback.com you can also leave us your
01:28:50 ◼ ► feedback and follow up there you can check out jason at sixcolors.com you can hear his shows
01:28:56 ◼ ► here on relay fm and at the incomparable.com the incomparable.com i really i swallowed a couple of
01:29:02 ◼ ► letters there jason incomparable i'll give it another go for you you can listen to my shows
01:29:06 ◼ ► here on relay fm and check out my work cortexbrand.com jason is at jay snell on social media i am at
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