00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 511 for May 7th 2024. Today's show is brought to you by
00:00:17 ◼ ► Squarespace, Tailscale, Vitaly and Factor. My name is Mike Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi,
00:00:23 ◼ ► Jason Snow. Hi, Mike Hurley. How are you? I am very well, Jason. I have a snow talk question for you.
00:00:28 ◼ ► It comes from me. Oh, where are you right now, Jason Snow? Mike Hurley, I am reporting to you live
00:00:36 ◼ ► from a hotel room in New York City. New York! New York City! Hey, he's podcasting you! Hey, forget about it. Forget about it. We'll talk about why you're there in a little bit because I also had a fun experience today too for the iPad event which we're going to be talking about.
00:00:57 ◼ ► So, but I'm happy that you were able to make it and we're still here to record a show as we always do. Even though you're in New York and I'm here in London. If you would like to send in a snow talk question to open a future episode of the show, you can just go to upgradefeedback.com, leave a question for us for a future episode.
00:01:18 ◼ ► Before we get started today, Jason, I want to remind the Upgradients that we have merchandise available, limited edition upgrade tees in a variety of designs. But this is the last time you're going to hear us talk about it. It's just six days left.
00:01:34 ◼ ► So if you want to get yourself one of our fantastic new upgrade logo tees in either the pro colors or the colors are colors, these are really great t-shirts. I'm very happy with it. Whatever color you choose is the color of the arrow and the upgrade logo.
00:01:48 ◼ ► Or you want to get our awesome gradient summer fun t-shirt or dongle town tee, you've got to go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com. These are available for just a few more days. It's the last time you hear us talk about it. So please go check it out. Support your favorite show and wear it on your body.
00:02:08 ◼ ► Good, yeah. Good use of your torso. Wear the show on your body. What are you doing in real life if you're not doing that? Makes sense. Upgradiowardrobe.com.
00:02:18 ◼ ► So before we get into talking about all of the products that were announced, we should do as we do and score the draft, which I will remind people was a draft that we made at the end of March for these iPads. I'm proud of us, Mike. Because we thought it was going to be, you know, press releases any day now. We don't want to waste a draft. Little did we know there was going to be more of an event than Apple's done in a very long time.
00:02:47 ◼ ► Since October. I would say, well, considering that it was a MacBook, multiple locations, this is like a thing that they have not done for a super long time. That's true. That's true. That's true. I'm proud of us. We, I mean, I'm more proud of you.
00:03:03 ◼ ► Although I'll say last week I looked at this and I thought you were going to destroy me. And in the end I did better than I expected. Yes. But you are once again continuing your amazing streak. Thank you. I've got to get more boring and more competitive to win.
00:03:17 ◼ ► No, we score it at 7-6. So I don't know if there was really much of it. I will just say I run through these real quick. We're a little fuzzier on our scoring than usual, but this is a score that we can agree on.
00:03:33 ◼ ► The challenge here is, um, we did this so long ago and like one of the things that I got right was not mentioned in the video, but was part of the announcement. And this was so long ago now that I'm like, I don't know. We didn't, we didn't record by the time we recorded it wasn't right after.
00:03:51 ◼ ► But we don't even need to argue about it. So it doesn't matter. But I should not have been allowed to pick this, but I picked it and I got it right. So it's fine. It's a thing that there's some stuff that maybe we wouldn't have picked the way that we did if we thought there was a video. Cause there's stuff that just doesn't get shown in videos. So we've been a little bit more fuzzy. So, uh, we'll run through, uh, your picks and my picks. So we have for Jason new Apple pencil introduced, got that. Correct. Larger track pad on the magic keyboard.
00:04:17 ◼ ► Correct. The base model iPad receives an update. So the entire draft hinges on this one, but you and I and Stephen Hackett all agree that although the lower, the base model iPad got a price change, it did not technically receive an update and therefore it is wrong.
00:04:54 ◼ ► It's just barely not black, white or gray, but it is. It's denim. It's sort of blue. Winner. Winner.
00:05:10 ◼ ► There's a bunch of stuff going on in the Apple. And the barrel roll thing, we got stuff to talk about. Yeah.
00:05:18 ◼ ► I was last week I was like, oh man, I don't know about this, but it's absolutely true. The aluminum, uh, of the magic keyboard comes in the same two boring colors that the iPad pro comes in.
00:05:28 ◼ ► Which is weird because like the white, one of them is called white, but it's only white on the plastic part.
00:05:34 ◼ ► The aluminum. We'll talk about it later, but they're not what I expected, but yeah, totally.
00:06:18 ◼ ► iPad air comes in current iPad pro sizes. Again, an ungentlemanly participant could claim that since it is now a 13 inch iPad air, it is not the same size as the 12.9 inch iPad pro of the last generation.
00:06:43 ◼ ► The iPad pro starts at a higher price, which it does. The new magic cube board has a function row, which it does.
00:07:09 ◼ ► It's pretty great. I think I did a really good job. And don't forget, this was before that Mark Gurman report as well.
00:07:30 ◼ ► Squarespace is the all in one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online.
00:07:35 ◼ ► Whether you're just getting started or managing a growing brand, you can stand out from the crowd with a beautiful website,
00:07:41 ◼ ► engage with your audience directly and sell your products, services, even the content that you create.
00:07:54 ◼ ► You can start a completely personalised website with their new guided design system, Squarespace Blueprint.
00:08:00 ◼ ► Choose from professionally curated layout and styling options to build a unique online presence from the ground up,
00:08:09 ◼ ► And then easily launch your website and get discovered fast with integrated optimised SEO tools
00:08:17 ◼ ► You can also integrate flexible payments to make checkout seamless for your customers with simple but powerful payment tools.
00:08:24 ◼ ► Except credit cards, PayPal and Apple Pay and in eligible countries offer customers the option to buy now and pay later with Afterpay and Clearpay.
00:08:36 ◼ ► It is their next generation website design editor and it's never been easier for anyone to unlock their creativity.
00:08:42 ◼ ► You choose your website's starting point and customise every design detail with reimagined drag and drop technology for desktop or mobile.
00:08:49 ◼ ► Stretch your imagination online with Fluid Engine included in any new Squarespace site.
00:08:55 ◼ ► Something that I love about Squarespace is just how easily it is to do the design stuff.
00:09:10 ◼ ► What I really love about Squarespace is to customise the colours, to change the layout just by dragging and dropping things.
00:09:26 ◼ ► When you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com/upgrade to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
00:09:33 ◼ ► That is squarespace.com/upgrade and when you decide to sign up, you'll get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for the show.
00:09:54 ◼ ► I don't live here. No, it's that thing that happens sometimes where I'm summoned to New York.
00:10:04 ◼ ► "Oh Jason, we got some briefings in Cupertino but you have to go to New York because that's where Colleen is and that's where you're going to interview her."
00:10:19 ◼ ► They did them this year for this event in New York and in London where members of the press were invited to come and watch a video together.
00:10:32 ◼ ► All of which are on background, no quotes, but for background information about the product.
00:10:39 ◼ ► So I was with a friend of the show, Federico Fittucci, and we were at the London event.
00:10:49 ◼ ► Which is an absolutely stunning building that I've gotten to spend a little time in before but this is the most time that I've spent there, especially in the atrium area.
00:11:17 ◼ ► And I saw people from YouTubers that I recognise all the way to newspapers and journalists and other content creators and everybody in between.
00:11:53 ◼ ► Oh and then also at the end, John Turnus came onto the stage to talk about the products a little bit and then take us to the hands-on area.
00:12:02 ◼ ► So we also got to spend time with, you know, basically the hands-on, it was like a hands-on area.
00:12:34 ◼ ► I guess experimenting with trying to appeal to the European audience as well as the North American audience by having it be timed so that they could do events in both London and New York and cover a large portion of their primary market.
00:12:50 ◼ ► I think one of the things that's been interesting about modern Apple marketing is, and PR, is that they're experimenting with different concepts for it.
00:12:59 ◼ ► So here, instead of just having, so in October what happened is we all got briefings under embargo because the event was at 5 p.m. Eastern, right?
00:13:18 ◼ ► But we got it all under embargo and so we wrote our stories or whatever first looks we had and those were all posted in embargo time.
00:13:26 ◼ ► Well, this time we all just showed up at 9.30 and were seated at 10 to watch the video and then everything happened post announcement.
00:13:41 ◼ ► Like when the invitation came through for me, which is, oh, they're launching Vision Pro.
00:13:52 ◼ ► Like that's how they started the presentation and that seemed like the logical thing to me.
00:13:56 ◼ ► Like if you were going to launch a Vision Pro, you'd want to have people see it, maybe have demos.
00:14:01 ◼ ► So you'd set up like an event for Europe and maybe other countries and it turned out like basically all of Asia to come over.
00:14:08 ◼ ► But yeah, that didn't happen. I don't know if that was maybe the plan when they set this whole thing up.
00:14:13 ◼ ► But it doesn't seem like there is potentially an issue of availability of the Vision Pro.
00:14:18 ◼ ► So I don't know. I don't know why they did it, but I really hope they do more of it because it was for me, like fantastic.
00:14:49 ◼ ► So let's start by talking about the iPad Air, I think, because there's just less to say here.
00:15:06 ◼ ► 13 inch iPad Air. We tried to make this happen last time and people pushed back at us and said you can't do that.
00:15:11 ◼ ► And so now Apple has blessed us to do it so we can call it the 13 inch iPad Air anymore.
00:15:48 ◼ ► Yeah, and with, we'll talk about the Apple Pencil later, but with support for the new Apple Pencil Pro.
00:15:56 ◼ ► They did something that I was pontificating on on Connected last week, which was a way to handle this situation is to split the camera and the Face ID sensors apart and put the magnet in the middle.
00:16:11 ◼ ► If you look at the device now, you can see you have the camera and then you can see you have the sensors, but they are further apart from each other.
00:16:29 ◼ ► It turns out they aren't, which is great, but it does come with some pitfalls for the Pencil.
00:17:06 ◼ ► I worked real hard not to laugh out loud and embarrass this person in front of all of the media who were with us.
00:17:59 ◼ ► I was stuck in a hotel, so I got an iPad to be delivered to me so I could have something to do.
00:18:11 ◼ ► I don't know if the... Anyway, I couldn't use it on M1, so I was like, "Let me get this to try it out."
00:18:20 ◼ ► Yesterday, we now use that iPad Air as an iPad to watch TV on when we eat dinner or something.
00:18:35 ◼ ► I have the apps that I need, like the streaming video apps, but then my thumbnails for my photos are too big.
00:18:51 ◼ ► And it's just becoming... I'm at the point yesterday where I was just removing the mail app and the notes from this iPad
00:19:50 ◼ ► And Apple was clear. So, again, it's one of those things where I can't really quote anybody.
00:19:58 ◼ ► Apple is clear. The whole point of the iPad Air is to get iPad Pro features and technology
00:20:40 ◼ ► But if you're a fan of the iPad Pro and maybe were hoping for something that you didn't get today,
00:20:49 ◼ ► but you want a new iPad Pro because yours is a little old, maybe it's a pre-M1 or something like that,
00:21:11 ◼ ► It's not everything, right? It's not everything, but it's a lot of the things for $799. Pretty good.
00:21:41 ◼ ► where the previous iPad Pro, for example, says it supports the keyboard and the Keyboard Folio.
00:22:33 ◼ ► But still, still, it's a very impressive pair of iPads for $599 and $799 starting prices.
00:22:43 ◼ ► I think it's just the 12 point -- maybe it's just the 12.9 that doesn't support the Smart Keyboard.
00:23:20 ◼ ► It's in the education store because there are a lot of education customers that need it.
00:23:25 ◼ ► So I feel like this is actually kind of like the M1 MacBook Air where it's not entirely gone.
00:23:31 ◼ ► But in terms of the message Apple is sending to consumers and the general consumer market, forget about it.
00:23:59 ◼ ► I just think it's been a while now where Air just means regular and then Pro means the other thing.
00:24:21 ◼ ► And I know that that's a function of going all the way back to the original MacBook Air and that people like the name.
00:24:27 ◼ ► But if you view Apple's product line and you see iPad Air, iPad Pro, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro,
00:24:33 ◼ ► 1113, 1315, it kind of makes sense in that context of I get why this tag means this part of the product line.
00:24:50 ◼ ► that the MacBook Air is the 13 and the 15 above the best-selling products in the product class,
00:25:25 ◼ ► the 13-inch iPad Air is literally the same size of the 12.9-inch iPad Pro of the previous generation.
00:27:42 ◼ ► And it's the easiest way to connect devices and services to each other wherever they are.
00:28:20 ◼ ► and authenticate without authentication using Tailscale app connectors and so much more.
00:28:26 ◼ ► Try Tailscale out for free for up to 100 devices and 3 users at tailscale.com, no credit card required.
00:28:34 ◼ ► That's tailscale.com to try Tailscale for free for up to 100 devices and 3 users, no credit card required.
00:29:21 ◼ ► I think we parsed out based on this bizarre assertion from Mark Gurman at the last minute.
00:29:27 ◼ ► I definitely have heard from people inside Apple who are like, "Oh, we held that one so close to the vest for so long."
00:29:41 ◼ ► Like they made it clear. They even called it out in the presentation that this is a new 3-nanometer process.
00:29:50 ◼ ► And so if you think about it, what this is -- and again, this didn't happen 3 months ago or 6 months ago.
00:29:59 ◼ ► Apple and TSMC, who makes their chips for them, were talking about the processes for their new 3-nanometer nodes.
00:30:07 ◼ ► And there's the one that was going to come sooner but wasn't going to stick around and the one that they were going to move to.
00:30:13 ◼ ► And the M4 is very clearly the chip that was designed for the one they're going to move to.
00:30:20 ◼ ► And so I think Apple and TSMC -- and this is just me reading between the lines a little bit --
00:30:28 ◼ ► M3 is going to be based on this process and then we're going to cut over to M4 on the new process.
00:30:46 ◼ ► It feels like the M3 and that whole generation are just not going to stick around too long
00:30:52 ◼ ► because they are on this kind of more fraught and more expensive original first-generation 3-nanometer process.
00:31:00 ◼ ► Whereas this M4 is on the new generation, which goes to the thing that I think we speculated about last week,
00:31:06 ◼ ► which is maybe this is why Mark Gurman reported that everything is going to move to the M4.
00:31:17 ◼ ► I'll also say it is my understanding that, and you can see it in some of the video details too,
00:32:33 ◼ ► Yeah, I saw it. I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot and I've been mentioning it every now and then.
00:33:10 ◼ ► It just feels like they are using and deploying the technology when and where they need it.
00:33:22 ◼ ► Do I think, as Germin has reported, do I think that Apple's ultimate goal is to do M chips on a yearly cycle?
00:33:34 ◼ ► And this is an example where I think we can intuit that Apple wanted to get off of the first generation 3nm process at TSMC.
00:33:43 ◼ ► It gave them first 3nm chips shipping in bulk and they got to boast about that and they got to do that for the M3.
00:33:59 ◼ ► So you take the opportunity to go to M4 now and you build in the display controller that will enable this iPad Pro and maybe other products too.
00:34:35 ◼ ► And part of that is because they really want to focus on the difference between the M2 and the M4 because that's where the iPad Pro goes.
00:34:42 ◼ ► And the argument is you can't really compare an M3 and a MacBook Air and an M4 and an iPad Pro
00:34:51 ◼ ► because they're different enclosures and they've got different cooling and they've got different thermal dynamics
00:34:57 ◼ ► And that's true. That all said, also if you run a synthetic benchmark on an M2 in an iPad and in a MacBook Air, you get the same score, more or less.
00:35:14 ◼ ► And fair enough, but my understanding is that the CPU cores are a little bit different.
00:35:19 ◼ ► They're not necessarily like a super next generation CPU core, but they are a little bit different.
00:35:34 ◼ ► They talk about, "Oh, well look at all these things that it can't do and it's so much better at GPU than the old iPad Pro."
00:35:39 ◼ ► What they're talking about is all that stuff that we talked about for the M3, where they're able to do a bunch of rendering stuff
00:36:00 ◼ ► Again, and they also, I think they made some modifications to the neural engine too, which, AI, everybody cares about AI,
00:36:15 ◼ ► And I'm kind of emptying my notebook here, but another note that I wanted to throw out there is the M4 neural engine thing.
00:36:28 ◼ ► Apple, just to put this in perspective, Apple has been shipping, not working on, shipping neural engines in their chips for seven years,
00:36:47 ◼ ► And what the chip team does is look at what the papers are about machine learning, AI research, and try to skate where the puck is going.
00:36:58 ◼ ► But obviously, there's two or three years of lag time there because they have to do chip design processes and all of that.
00:37:04 ◼ ► So my understanding is that there's some more support for quantized machine learning models,
00:37:12 ◼ ► basically smaller models that use less memory, like 8-bit models instead of 16-bit models.
00:37:16 ◼ ► They saw that coming a few years ago, and so there's better support for that in the neural engine this time around.
00:37:22 ◼ ► 2017, when they started shipping neural engine, is actually when the first Transformer model paper happened.
00:37:28 ◼ ► And so that was the case where they looked at that and they were shipping their first neural engine.
00:37:33 ◼ ► They're like, "Oh, geez, Transformer models, that's interesting," and so started planning that.
00:37:38 ◼ ► So I think the people inside of the neural engine team at Apple are very focused on where the cutting edge of machine learning and AI research is going,
00:37:47 ◼ ► but they've also been shipping neural engines for seven years, and every one of them is better and faster and more impressive, and that continues.
00:37:57 ◼ ► And it's one of the things that makes it, I think, I mean, it bugs me, and I'm sure it infuriates them when people say that Apple's not paying attention to AI or just started paying attention six months ago.
00:38:10 ◼ ► One of the things I think that's happening on the CPU core side is that there's some stuff that they're doing to enable certain machine learning tasks that are small
00:38:21 ◼ ► that would not benefit speed-wise from throwing them off into the neural engine or the GPU.
00:38:28 ◼ ► One of the tricks you can do on a computer core is have a specialized command, a specialized area that will just do a thing.
00:38:44 ◼ ► It's just built in. It's like, well, ProRes video encoding, it's just kind of baked into the chip.
00:38:48 ◼ ► Well, I think they have some of those in the CPUs as well, and the idea there is that you don't have to throw those out to the neural engine or the GPU.
00:39:10 ◼ ► What's the CPU? What's the GPU? What's the neural engine? What else is going on? What custom blocks are there?
00:39:17 ◼ ► The answer, as far as I can see on day one here at least, is that the M4 is more than the M3.
00:39:27 ◼ ► But it's different. What we've learned about how TSMC and their different fabs and their different processes work is,
00:39:43 ◼ ► And just as with the M2 to the M3 or the M1 to the M2, parts of it are more changed than other parts of it.
00:39:51 ◼ ► This part of the presentation was presented by an actual friend of the show, Tim Millet.
00:40:10 ◼ ► And that Apple, he says they have the most powerful one because they've been doing it for a long time.
00:40:15 ◼ ► Like it's like a neural processing unit on another system on a chip is what I'm mistaken that away from.
00:40:41 ◼ ► And certainly on the chip side, they're like, "No, we've been shipping machine learning stuff for seven years."
00:40:52 ◼ ► Because the reason that the neural engine exists is because there were some basic things that Apple needed to do.
00:41:00 ◼ ► Like the photos app needed to process or the camera app in order to do, you know, photometric stuff.
00:41:16 ◼ ► And then Face ID at the same time was the thing where they needed to do facial recognition.
00:41:24 ◼ ► And they had the ability to say, "Okay, let's build in some custom silicon in our chip that will support that."
00:41:51 ◼ ► I think it's a dedicated advantage that they're only now, you know, some of it is really, like we said last week, it's marketing.
00:42:06 ◼ ► They were touting the power efficiency of this M4 chip from previous iPads and also against the rest of the PC industry.
00:42:17 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean, we will talk about, obviously, what they've done around the physical dimensions of this device.
00:42:22 ◼ ► But clearly, like, I was wondering, like, "Oh, they're going to talk about increased battery life here."
00:42:27 ◼ ► But I think where they were actually driving to is, "Oh, we can make this new iPad Pro so thin because it's now so much more power efficient."
00:42:39 ◼ ► But what they are able to do is make the processor more efficient and also look at how the design fits into it.
00:42:59 ◼ ► Because the reason you do that is you want to radiate out heat because there's no fan in this thing.
00:43:04 ◼ ► You want to be able to radiate out heat and continue to run it at higher performance for longer.
00:43:09 ◼ ► And so they end up with their comparison being they can offer the same performance as the M2 using half the power.
00:43:17 ◼ ► And they can offer the same performance as a thin and light PC laptop using a quarter of the power.
00:43:23 ◼ ► So, I mean, those are Apple favorable numbers, of course, but I think it shows you that they continue to have a great deal of pride in the energy characteristics of their chips.
00:43:45 ◼ ► So in this iPad lineup, in the iPad Pro lineup where the M4 is featured, there is a little chip binning going on again.
00:43:53 ◼ ► So if you get the 256 or 512 versions of the iPad Pro, you will get a nine-core CPU, which features three performance cores instead of four, and the six efficiency cores.
00:44:12 ◼ ► And you will get the full four and six if you get the one or two terabyte models, and you'll also get 16 gigabytes of RAM.
00:44:20 ◼ ► Now, my assumption here, because this isn't the first time that Apple has had a different amount of RAM in a one terabyte iPad Pro.
00:44:29 ◼ ► They've done this before, and when pushed, they've answered that they have different amounts for being able to run the USB controllers and to be able to access the storage and da-da-da-da.
00:44:39 ◼ ► And it enabled things like apps like Procreate could have more layers on the one terabyte version because it had more RAM.
00:44:47 ◼ ► My expectation here is that they are doing this for AI-related stuff down the line, that they are talking about RAM in the iPad, which is a thing that they have never done before.
00:45:03 ◼ ► Well, essentially they are differentiating between the low and the high end for a lot of things, and it allows them to put the higher capacity stuff in the more expensive ones.
00:45:16 ◼ ► The nano texture display option on the iPad Pro is also only available on the top two models.
00:45:24 ◼ ► And the idea there is, if you're a professional user of the iPad Pro at the high end, you want more RAM, you want more storage, you might want nano texture.
00:45:34 ◼ ► It's all there for you, but we're not going to make that available at the base price because it's too much to put in the base price, and they want the base price to look good.
00:46:11 ◼ ► Apple really is proud of their efficiency cores and says that they're not bad cores, they're really, really, really good cores, and it allows them to turn them on and off and only go to the performance when they need to.
00:46:21 ◼ ► And it's all part of the fine tuning of battery efficiency and performance on these systems.
00:46:26 ◼ ► So we'll presumably see that in Macs at some point down the road and we'll see what they do there.
00:46:32 ◼ ► But yeah, I do think it's interesting that they continue to differentiate without differentiating.
00:46:37 ◼ ► They're differentiating based on essentially storage, but it's not just that, right? It's RAM and storage.
00:46:43 ◼ ► But you can't mix and match. You either get the low RAM, low storage configuration, or you get the high RAM, high storage configuration.
00:46:59 ◼ ► I'm sure there are lots of things that will work better with more memory, but memory management on the iPad is intended to be kind of opaque.
00:47:10 ◼ ► Yeah, you're not really supposed to think about it, which is why it's weird for me to see it.
00:47:35 ◼ ► Yeah, sure. I mean, we've obliquely touched on it, but yeah, the product that the chip is inside of.
00:47:43 ◼ ► So the 11 and 13, they are both significantly thinner and lighter than the models that they replaced.
00:47:48 ◼ ► The 13-inch iPad Pro is the thinnest Apple product ever. They even showed it off next to the iPod Nano, which was an incredible thing.
00:47:56 ◼ ► However, I believe if I'm correct, the previous one was also thinner than the iPod Nano, but they wanted to just show it off.
00:48:16 ◼ ► I don't really think realistically that they can get thinner than this because you've got maybe a couple of millimeters at most that you could go thinner before you can't plug in a USB anymore.
00:48:30 ◼ ► And actually, in one of the demos that we got to see, the Pro app demo, they had a Thunderbolt cable plugged into the iPad Pro.
00:49:18 ◼ ► I think primarily I think that that the old mini LED backlight, like I think it was thick and heavy.
00:49:26 ◼ ► And once it was out and they went to OLED, they were able to make the whole product thinner and lighter.
00:49:44 ◼ ► And I mean, yeah, as somebody who holds an iPad Pro in his hand every day, it is pretty impressive what they did.
00:49:56 ◼ ► And I know there were all those rumors out there that they were going to get thinner and lighter.
00:50:03 ◼ ► I share your feeling that I'm not sure how much more they can shave off because there's still glass and there's still the display technology.
00:50:40 ◼ ► But I was it was very tempting to think about the 13 inch iPad Pro because now really it's just because I don't want that size screen.
00:50:56 ◼ ► Both of them. But the 13, especially because it's the most surprising, like when you hold it in your hand, it just doesn't really feel like as much of anything.
00:51:11 ◼ ► And I'm not sure I really want to give up the screen size as as nice as would be to have a lighter iPad.
00:51:31 ◼ ► It's just that the keyboard on the 11 feels cramped to me in a way that the 13 doesn't.
00:51:40 ◼ ► And you put it in that smart keyboard and you close it up and it's like a little tiny laptop that Apple doesn't make.
00:51:58 ◼ ► It is two OLED panels that they put on top of each other to make sure they can hit the brightness levels that they wanted.
00:52:15 ◼ ► And ProMotion of course. And I would say a little more color about the display controller and how it's worked here.
00:52:47 ◼ ► There's some variance in brightness and the calibration process creates a map of how you adjust each pixel so that they display consistently.
00:52:59 ◼ ► So that if you've got a big span of red, it all looks consistently red and not blotchy.
00:53:05 ◼ ► Which might happen if you have some of those reds are brighter and some of those reds are darker. Right?
00:53:12 ◼ ► So that's where you need a new display controller because this thing has to take those adjustments on every single pixel of the dual OLED display at 120 frames a second.
00:53:47 ◼ ► Sometimes, like obviously on this show, inherent in doing this show, there is an element of like, we are fans and we love Apple products. Right?
00:54:10 ◼ ► Like that they're like, well, we want to put OLED in, which is better, but it won't be bright enough. And that's not good enough.
00:54:32 ◼ ► If you remember back when they did the 5K retina and they did the whole thing about like the T-Con and the whole idea of like how they had to build a custom thing in order to get the video to work at 5K retina.
00:54:46 ◼ ► And I mean, it's incredibly inefficient. Like this is the, this is the beauty of controlling your own Silicon and not having it be like on an Intel system or, or where you have to kind of hack into it at a high level because you can't have access to the low level.
00:55:00 ◼ ► The, you want to talk legacy nodes, the T-Con stuff, you know, you're talking about chips that are running, they're like a hundred nanometer nodes and it's wildly inefficient.
00:55:12 ◼ ► When if you built it into the chip, you know, you could be on a three nanometer chip to do that work at the level where you can do it all kind of like properly.
00:55:25 ◼ ► So it's like, that's a contrast, right? Where it was like before they could do stuff that was innovative, but they kind of had to hack it and it was going to use more power and it was going to be less efficient.
00:55:35 ◼ ► And now today's Apple with Apple Silicon, they do a lot of like call up Johnny and his boys and we're going to put this in and it's a team effort, right?
00:55:45 ◼ ► It's obviously, it's not just like there are iPad display people who call Johnny Srouji and say, I need, or Tim Malet and are like, can I have this thing?
00:55:53 ◼ ► It's a, it's a collaborative effort, but this is the result is that Apple gets to have a vision for where they want to push a product.
00:56:00 ◼ ► And instead of, and look, there are, there are lots of pros and cons of, of a lot of things that Apple does.
00:56:07 ◼ ► But like, I think I would say this is why Apple does stuff that the rest of the industry doesn't do from time to time is that a lot of the computer industry is taking parts off a shelf.
00:56:17 ◼ ► And sometimes they work with the chip maker and that, you know, to build in a little custom thing.
00:56:23 ◼ ► Apple used to do that at the first Mac book air processor was a collaboration with Intel because Apple needed some things that Intel wasn't offering.
00:56:31 ◼ ► And so they worked together on it and it was kind of not a very good chip, but it got better over time.
00:56:41 ◼ ► You can build things into the chips that enable a hardware and you can't do that if you're just taking parts off of a shelf.
00:56:47 ◼ ► Now, the downside is if Apple doesn't prioritize your feature, like having multiple external displays, you're just out of luck, right?
00:57:00 ◼ ► But it does get you things like this where Apple just says, we need this and so we're going to build it.
00:57:06 ◼ ► And so they build it in and now the M4, I don't know if any other product in the M4 that ends up using the M4 will need this display controller.
00:57:14 ◼ ► We'll see, but it's here. Since it's a display controller, it does make me wonder if the display capabilities of M4 Macs will also be superior
00:57:25 ◼ ► because they souped up the display controller in the base M4. Maybe, but at least today the reason is so the iPad Pro could exist with an OLED display like this.
00:57:36 ◼ ► So this display on the 1TB and 2TB models for $100 upgrade, you can get a nano texture.
00:57:44 ◼ ► Now this was surprising to me. We'd heard about the potential matte display, but they called it nano texture because nano texture is what is on some of the studio displays and the pro display.
00:57:57 ◼ ► And Apple has previously described it as they like etch into the glass and you're not supposed to touch those.
00:58:03 ◼ ► Don't touch it. So it's like, well this is a surprise. So I was told that this nano texture display is created by chemically altering the glass.
00:58:22 ◼ ► They built it specifically for the iPad is my understanding as well so that it will survive fingerprints and survive Apple pencil.
00:58:34 ◼ ► Two things that just a Mac display don't need to deal with, but then an iPad display does.
00:58:41 ◼ ► Two things that will destroy a Mac display. I don't know if you looked at it, but I looked at one and all those beautiful contrast ratio and all the dark blacks of OLED are gone, are ruined, I would say by the nano texture.
00:58:58 ◼ ► Nano texture does that thing where everything is a little bit more foggy, but it means that you can work in very bright light and there's no reflection on the glass.
00:59:06 ◼ ► And that's the way Apple pitches it. Apple says, this is why it's on the high end systems. I was told, I think very clearly, this is an option for pros who are out in the field.
00:59:19 ◼ ► But I think even Apple would say, most people should not get this. It really is for like, if you know if you absolutely need a nano texture iPad, but most people are probably not going to want it.
00:59:32 ◼ ► Under regular lighting, it looked fine to me, but you move it a little bit and something looks weird. Like it just like all of a sudden it's like, it's like light, it's like surreal light is hitting it, but not bouncing, but you can see that light is hitting it.
00:59:50 ◼ ► So like the colors change. It's very peculiar, but yes, I would say that do not get this unless you know you need this. If you don't already know you need this, don't do this.
01:00:04 ◼ ► If you're an artist or a director of photography or a film editor or something who's using an iPad out in the fields in bad lighting situations where you've got huge glare issues and all that, you should buy this.
01:00:16 ◼ ► Everybody else, you should not buy this because it will make the OLED not as good and it's not necessary. It's just not, especially for a mobile device where probably in most cases, unless you're in extreme environments, you could just move a little bit and not have the glare anymore.
01:00:34 ◼ ► I would say this was better than I expected. It looks better to me than any Paperlike or any of these things that I've seen. Just visually, what it did to the display was less of an impact than any screen addition that I've seen before.
01:00:53 ◼ ► But it didn't make me feel like I needed it. I was just like, "Oh, okay, but I want to get the best out of OLED." And so for that, I will get the regular one.
01:01:05 ◼ ► So let's talk about the accessories. So we have the Apple Pencil Pro. So these are the things that it can do. There is now a squeeze gesture that has a haptic, which will allow you to in certain apps invoke some kind of menu.
01:01:20 ◼ ► Like in the Notes app or wherever Pencil Kit is used, it brings up a little wheel of tools that you can select from.
01:01:27 ◼ ► Right, including a multi-step undo, which is pretty awesome. You tap the undo button and then you can circle around and go back, back, back, back, back a bunch of steps, which is just a really smart thing. I like that a lot.
01:01:40 ◼ ► And then it can be customized. That wheel can be, or that squeeze gesture can invoke anything if an app wants to override it.
01:01:47 ◼ ► And then you can also enable a barrel roll, which is a feature enabled by a new gyroscope. So you can, this enables, this is another thing that can enable a bunch of things depending on the app.
01:02:01 ◼ ► So you can have a little bit of a twist. So you can have a little bit of a twist. You can have a little bit of a twist in the app. And you can have a little bit of a twist in the app. You can have a little bit of a twist in the app. You can have a little bit of a twist in the app.
01:02:21 ◼ ► So super cool. But this was the thing that I was trying to think about. Now, the current Apple Pencil, it had something, a tilt, it could recognize tilt, but I guess it could not recognize you twirling the pencil in your hand.
01:02:37 ◼ ► Yeah, exactly. You can put it down and then spin the pencil as you go and it will move, it will rotate the brush or whatever. Yeah, I saw a demo where there was like a twirl effect that was going on. You could put down and then twirl and it would distort that part of the image.
01:02:54 ◼ ► So we'll see how people use it. It's interesting. I think the one that I immediately thought of is calligraphers, calligraphy pens that have this, they're not square, they're not round, they're long. And there's a hole with calligraphy, like you use the long part and the short part depending on detail.
01:03:15 ◼ ► And you could do that now with an Apple Pencil Pro. That will work. Did you feel the haptic? Yes, it's incredible. It's good. It's very much like the haptic track pads that you think are moving but aren't moving. It's absolutely it. You think you're squeezing it, or AirPods.
01:03:33 ◼ ► You think you're squeezing it and you're not squeezing it but it feels like you're squeezing it. The actual gesture area is about a third of the Apple Pencil which I thought was cool. You don't have to hold it in a specific area. Exactly right.
01:03:48 ◼ ► The haptic, you feel it when you squeeze like an AirPod. So if you do the squeeze gesture, you feel it as if you've squeezed it and it's clicked. It's when your Mac's forced on the Pencil. The haptic engine or the haptic can be used by applications to suggest that an action has been done.
01:04:09 ◼ ► This is just like on the Mac on the track pad. It's this idea so that if you're dragging out and you hit a snap boundary, it can go "bip" and you feel like you've reached the snap and then you can move beyond it. You can optionally give it that sort of feedback if you're in app.
01:04:23 ◼ ► And it also features hover and double tap like the previous Apple Pencil. Right, they didn't get rid of double tap. It's still there. Unless they fixed it, I still think it activates when I don't want it and when I do want it, it doesn't.
01:04:38 ◼ ► But we'll see. And the hover is there. I don't know why double tap exists now that the squeeze thing exists. There must be some things that said people... Some apps are going to have different stuff going on. Right? And so there might be a better way.
01:04:52 ◼ ► Some apps already have done double tap as a feature and people will use it and so they don't want to invalidate that and it probably wasn't worth moving it out since that's an accelerometer feature. So where does this leave the Apple Pencil now? The answer is it's complicated but maybe less complicated than it was.
01:05:09 ◼ ► So the way I think you should look at it is for every iPad there are two Apple Pencils. There's a cheaper one and a better one that's more expensive. So for the iPad Pro and iPad Air 2024, today's iPads, they will work with the Pencil Pro or the USB-C pencil.
01:05:35 ◼ ► And if you're wondering why, the answer is as a part of designing the camera to be on the horizontal side, they had to redesign the magnetic attach and charge of the Apple Pencil. They could do it. Again, this is one of those things where people are like, "Oh, they're not going to be able to do it."
01:05:52 ◼ ► They could do it. They're perfectly capable of doing it but it broke compatibility with the Apple Pencil 2 that we all know. So this new one has a different magnetic charge compatibility shape, essentially. The pencil itself looks exactly the same but it's different.
01:06:08 ◼ ► So the new iPads work with it. No other iPad works with it. That's the Pencil Pro. Or you can use that USB-C pencil that they came out with last year and that one is the one that charges via USB-C and it doesn't have the barrel roll and the haptic and all that. It's fewer features but it'll be cheaper.
01:06:28 ◼ ► And same price, by the way. I know that you might hear Apple Pencil Pro and think it's more expensive but no, it's $129. The same as the Apple Pencil version 2.
01:06:38 ◼ ► Version 2, right. USB-C is a little bit cheaper. It's the same price as the one that it is technically replacing for these new iPads.
01:06:44 ◼ ► Older iPads might use the Apple Pencil 2 and some iPads use the Apple Pencil USB-C. All iPads can use the Apple Pencil USB-C. Any USB-C iPad supports the Apple Pencil with USB-C. So that's the new kind of default.
01:07:04 ◼ ► Right. But the 10th generation iPad uses the Pencil 2. The 10th generation iPad uses the... It currently sells on Apple's website that you would use either Apple Pencil with USB-C or Apple Pencil first generation for the 10th generation.
01:07:35 ◼ ► Apple Pencil, which is USB-C, and Apple Pencil Pro, which is magnetic attached, magnetic charge, extra features. And those will be the two. But they still have to clear out some iPads to make that happen.
01:08:39 ◼ ► You can see now that it's all going through. You can see now that in a year as things come off the price list or update. Once they update the iPad Mini and the base iPad, I feel like the Pencil story will be clear. But it's not right now.
01:08:57 ◼ ► There is a new Magic Keyboard. It has a refined design. Not new, but not dramatically different.
01:09:09 ◼ ► It's less dramatic than I thought. It is not replacing the cantilever with a laptop design. But the cantilever is shorter. So it feels more laptop-y without it actually anchoring. It still covers the whole back of the iPad.
01:09:30 ◼ ► It's bottom and top when you close it is the rubberized gray or white material. But a couple of things here.
01:09:39 ◼ ► One is, and there are little three dots on the back to attach it and magnetic attach on the back. That's all the same.
01:09:46 ◼ ► It's only compatible with this model. There are some physics reasons why that's the case. Because the new iPad Pros are thinner and lighter, it gives them a little bit more room to push it back a little further.
01:10:02 ◼ ► There are also some changes like the thing that used to be a round thing with a USB on it. That hinge is now kind of oval. It's kind of pill-shaped. It's a little bit different, but very familiar to the Magic Keyboard that was unveiled in 2020.
01:10:19 ◼ ► The trackpad is bigger. There's a function row. Hurray! It's the function row. They got it in there. And the big difference is the keyboard surface is aluminum.
01:10:34 ◼ ► The keyboard surface is color matched to the iPad. So when it's open, if you're using the space gray, or sorry, space black, space black now, Mike, it's not space gray. If you're using the space black one, the keyboard is space black. The trackpad is space black.
01:10:52 ◼ ► But if you close it, it's still that rubberized gray material. It's just the inside that is color matched.
01:10:59 ◼ ► You have around the keyboard tray a very slight rim of rubber, too, so the keyboard will touch the screen less, which would be nice.
01:11:10 ◼ ► And then the white one, it's rubberized white on the outside, and then the inside is color matched to the silver metallic. When you're using it, it feels very laptop-like, but when you close it, it looks very iPad-like.
01:11:25 ◼ ► So the cantilever is less pronounced now, I think, because the, I don't know why, I guess maybe the weight difference means they don't need to put so much of a balance in.
01:11:37 ◼ ► Yeah, that's it. It is lighter, and so they can shift that weight, and lighter and thinner, they can shift the weight back a little bit.
01:11:45 ◼ ► They also have changed some of the design a little bit, where the metal part that sits at the back where you can put the USB-C in is more exposed now than on the previous one, where it was wrapped in a material.
01:12:00 ◼ ► Yeah, it's got a little bit of a, it kind of just sticks out at the back there, which looked strange to me.
01:12:06 ◼ ► Yeah, it's a redesign, I mean, like the iPad Pro itself, it is legitimately a redesigned product, but if you were to look at it, you would say, "Oh, I know what that is."
01:12:18 ◼ ► It's not redesigned in the sense that you're like, "Oh my God, this is totally unlike the Magic Keyboard was before." No, it is recognizably the Magic Keyboard.
01:12:26 ◼ ► It is an evolution of it, but it is not a "let's throw it away and do something completely different" kind of thing. It's a little further back, but it's still got the part that you can tilt, so you can tilt the screen.
01:12:43 ◼ ► And they added the function row, and oh, oh, and we didn't mention it, it's got a haptic trackpad. So now when you click the trackpad, it vibrates, it doesn't click, and that actually means that if you're, some people are actually sensitive to the fact that they're sitting in a relatively quiet space going click, click, click every time they click that trackpad. Well, this one just vibrates, so it feels like a click, but it doesn't make that noise anymore.
01:13:09 ◼ ► I don't know about you, but I found it really hard to open. I closed it up, and I think it, I don't know if it's maybe stronger magnets, or it's because the iPad Pro is thinner. I found it, and I was watching other people doing the same. You close it, and it's like, it took a little bit of effort to open the iPad with the Magic Keyboard.
01:13:36 ◼ ► I will say for me as well, I have not used the Magic Keyboard on an iPad for a long time, and it does add a lot of weight. You have these new incredibly light iPads, and then it's like, oh man. I mean, you know, it's a laptop.
01:13:52 ◼ ► And the keyboard is lighter too, right? So the whole package is lighter than it was by a bit, but it's still, you're going from an iPad to a laptop. Mike, honestly, when I take my Smart Folio off of my iPad, just the little wrapper, even that I'm amazed at how much thinner and lighter my iPad Pro feels.
01:14:12 ◼ ► The other day, I took it out of the case, and I was like, oh, where have you been hiding? Yeah, so that's going to happen. That's why Apple used to make the covers that were magnetically attached on the side and only covered the front. I mean, that's totally wise, because they wanted it to be lighter.
01:14:27 ◼ ► So yeah, I mean, I'd say when you're in laptop mode, judge it as a laptop, and it's going to be thinner and lighter than the old laptop mode. But yeah, the keyboard weighs, even though it's lighter, it's definitely going to weigh it down, and it changes what it is. The beauty of the iPad is you can just pull it off the keyboard.
01:14:46 ◼ ► This iPad Pro only has one camera instead of two. It loses the ultra-wide. They have a 12-megapixel wide camera and a LIDAR sensor, which is in place of the ultra-wide. So we've gone back to having a big problem with the LIDAR sensor.
01:15:01 ◼ ► Yeah, well, I mean, the LIDAR sensor was there before, but they took out the ultra-wide.
01:15:05 ◼ ► Yep, and they have an adaptive true-term flash, which they said make document scanning better, and the front-facing camera is on the landscape edge as well. I saw, I think Halide was posting about this, saying that their expectation, which would make sense, is it is for thinness.
01:15:24 ◼ ► Yeah, also, I mean, who knows? I mean, Apple's going to say what Apple's going to say, but it may also be that Apple looked at usage of the iPad Pro cameras and found that the ultra-wide was not necessary.
01:15:40 ◼ ► But they did. They took it off. It's an interesting omission. I mean, they must feel strongly, and maybe it is the thinness thing, where it's like, we can make this a lot thinner if we don't have that second camera, and somebody said, "Why do we care about the ultra-wide camera?"
01:16:01 ◼ ► It looks weird, though, right? Because if you look at both of them, the iPad kind of, the camera on the new iPad Pro compared to the old one, they're kind of laid out very similarly, but things have moved around.
01:16:15 ◼ ► It's like they moved the flash to where the LiDAR used to be. They've moved the LiDAR to where one of the cameras used to be, and then there's a microphone and something else.
01:16:24 ◼ ► It's interesting to look at it and be like, "It looks the same, but there's different components in there." It's why I didn't notice it at first. It's like, "Oh, you know, it's got a camera on it."
01:16:35 ◼ ► I forget that there were multiple cameras on the iPad Pro in that configuration anyway.
01:16:46 ◼ ► Yeah. Higher starting storage, again, $256, and a higher starting price, $999 starting price for the 11-inch, $1299 for the 13-inch. It's a $200 price increase.
01:17:03 ◼ ► Yeah. This was our tiebreaker in the draft where I made you pick above or below $950, and you picked below.
01:17:13 ◼ ► This is what I thought. I thought that it would be $999 for the base model this time instead of for the big model. So, yeah, $1299.
01:17:23 ◼ ► As I was flying out here, I was thinking back to when I was flying back from the Brooklyn event and writing about the 2018 launch of the iPad Pro.
01:17:33 ◼ ► I wrote this piece on six colors about the future of the iPad Pro, and I mentioned again that I think that Mac OS is Apple's kind of secret weapon at this point,
01:17:45 ◼ ► and that they should put Mac OS on an iPad Pro. They should put Mac OS in Vision OS as an option. I think the Mac is such a powerful thing,
01:17:54 ◼ ► and it's no longer the dead end, and it's the future. It is the present and future of computing, and the iPad is no longer the future of computing, but something else.
01:18:03 ◼ ► I still feel that way. The reason that I was motivated to say that, and Apple didn't do that today. I'm not surprised. I didn't really expect them to.
01:18:10 ◼ ► But the reason I say that is Apple needs to give people a lot of reasons to buy an iPad Pro instead of an iPad Air.
01:18:21 ◼ ► That's, to me, that's the thing. And the $1,000 for an 11, $1,299, $1,300 for a 13, and then if you want a keyboard, it's an extra $300.
01:18:37 ◼ ► It adds up real quick, and that's fine if you can get value out of it. And I think that Apple today made some good arguments about some of the things that the iPad Pro is great at.
01:18:54 ◼ ► It talked about photography. It talked about design. It talked about illustration a whole lot, and some 3D work that you can do in it, and a lot of sort of like creative things you can do with an iPad.
01:19:09 ◼ ► And, okay, I'll give them those, especially with the Apple Pencil. I'll give them those.
01:19:15 ◼ ► My challenge is that strikes me as being a pretty small slice, and that while they talk about this keyboard, right, and they're like, "Oh, look at this keyboard. There's a guy on the bar train. He's working on numbers."
01:19:29 ◼ ► It's like, okay, but the truth is that for, like, I need more reason to buy an iPad Pro over an iPad Air. And right now what you got is OLED, Face ID, and processor power, but really, and ProMotion, right?
01:19:51 ◼ ► But really, like, is it compelling enough for a large enough slice, or is that slice a little too small still? Because the, I mean, I'll just, one of my reactions when I was watching this thing.
01:20:06 ◼ ► And it was, you know, I have fun, it's a wild ride watching Apple videos, and I had fun watching it all, but I had that moment where they pivoted from the M4 and all the things that are in the M4 that enable the iPad.
01:20:26 ◼ ► They pivoted from that to iPad OS, right? And I could feel my soul leaving my body, because the fact is, I still believe that just as it was the case in 2018, Apple is so good at building amazing hardware.
01:20:47 ◼ ► That screen, that processor, like, it's amazing. Who could deny it? The power and performance, the battery life, like, all of those things. This product is amazing.
01:21:03 ◼ ► And then we get to iPad OS, and it's sort of like, hmm, you know, and I'm not an iPad OS hater, but, like, it is, like, it cannot compare to the hardware work that Apple's doing right now.
01:21:17 ◼ ► And if Apple fancies itself that its secret sauce is the fusion of hardware and software working together, the story of the iPad for the last six years, if not longer, is that the software lets down the hardware.
01:21:33 ◼ ► And while the software has gotten better, the hardware has gotten a lot better. And I look at this today and I think, there are specific applications that, like, not apps, like, use cases applications that are really remarkable.
01:21:48 ◼ ► And Apple knows it, and Apple is calling all of those out. But I keep thinking about how this doesn't really change the conversation where there's a lot of capabilities in iPad OS,
01:21:59 ◼ ► but we all know that there's a whole lot of things that iPad OS just can't do. And so now you've got the power of an M4 processor inside that thing. And, like, yeah, you can pay $1200 for one, and it'll be a beautiful movie player.
01:22:14 ◼ ► It'll be really expensive, but it'll be a beautiful movie player. You won't be using most of its features, but it will be a beautiful player because of the OLED screen.
01:22:22 ◼ ► And I'm not saying iPad OS is an F. I'm saying the hardware is an A. And iPad OS is a, I don't know, C, B, B-. For some things, it's good. For other things, it's still what it is, which is kind of like, there's a bunch of stuff it can't do, and it probably will never be able to do, and it still frustrates me.
01:22:45 ◼ ► So I had that moment. That was my moment of sort of sourness in this, is that after that real high of the hardware and the fact that they're still kicking on this, and they've got the tandem OLED, and they've got the M4 out of nowhere with all this stuff in it.
01:22:59 ◼ ► And they're like, "And now let's talk about iPad OS." And I was like, "Well, I can see how this is going to go." And it's, I mean, yeah, there's a new version of Final Cut and Logic, and there are some nice features that will also be in the Mac version.
01:23:11 ◼ ► But I don't know. It was a letdown, not that I was expecting some kind of amazing iPad OS story. In fact, if they're going to have that story, they should have it at WWDC next month anyway.
01:23:22 ◼ ► But it was just a reminder to me of the contrast, not even saying that iPad OS is bad, just saying that Apple is at the top of its game and maybe the game on the hardware side of these products.
01:23:36 ◼ ► And then on the software side, you're like, "Oh, yeah, it's the same old story. It's just kind of, it's okay. It's got some stuff it doesn't do, some stuff it does do. It's kind of a big iPad or a big iPhone, a little bit still."
01:23:49 ◼ ► I don't know. I don't know what you thought about it, but I just, it was a real, I actually put it in my notes. I'm like, "Oh, the letdown right here." I felt it.
01:23:57 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean, I understand it, right? Federico turned to me at the end and he's like, "What do you think? What did you think about all that?" Basically, it was like, I got exactly what I thought we were going to get.
01:24:09 ◼ ► I share the desire for Mac virtualization, but I don't really expect we're going to get it. I don't expect it.
01:24:20 ◼ ► And I don't want to go overboard about Mac virtualization because Mac virtualization in many ways is my attempt to find a solution to the problem of the iPad.
01:24:29 ◼ ► Because the problem of the iPad is at one point it seemed like they were going to drive it toward being the replacement for the Mac.
01:24:35 ◼ ► And then at some point they sort of like, they struggled with it and they didn't really get it there. And then they seem to stop trying and decided that the Mac is the future of the Mac.
01:24:44 ◼ ► But they don't have a convertible and the iPad Pro does some things well and there are other things that it just doesn't do. And I would be fine if they said, "We're reinvigorating iPad OS in order to do all these things because we don't want it to have the limitations it's got."
01:24:59 ◼ ► But instead it feels like they're in this position where they're like, "The Mac's over there and it can do anything you want. And the iPad's over here and it's never really going to do more than it does right now."
01:25:08 ◼ ► And so when I bring up something like virtualizing Mac OS when you're in a keyboard and trackpad case in order to just sort of use it as a laptop for a while, it is in some ways an act of desperation.
01:25:20 ◼ ► But it's also me trying to find a solution that unlocks the power of that hardware because iPad OS doesn't do it.
01:25:26 ◼ ► You were saying about the future of computing and it seemed like it was going down that track and then they changed course. I actually wonder if... I don't know if the iPad changed course. I think that the Apple that was potentially moving towards getting rid of the Mac and replacing it with the iPad maybe wanted the iPad to be just what it is.
01:25:45 ◼ ► Well I mean they may have decided that. It felt though like at one point there was a real project of we're going to push a lot of extra features into iPad OS because we want it to be more Mac-like because in the end the Mac is going to kind of fade away.
01:26:00 ◼ ► And when they realized with Apple Silicon and I think they decided they were going to not just keep the Mac around as a legacy product but they were going to put it on Apple Silicon and they were going to make the effort to take the underpinnings and get them connected between Mac OS and iPad OS so they're all running the same base system and all of that.
01:26:17 ◼ ► They decided to do that. I feel like what probably happened is that the pressure went off iPad OS. It's like, "Oh, you don't have to be more Mac-like now."
01:26:34 ◼ ► This is exactly what I think we all expected other than the M4 which is more than we expected in fact.
01:26:38 ◼ ► Yeah, but I mean the M4 is still emblematic of what I expect which is the iPad's incredibly powerful and I'm not going to use any of that.
01:26:46 ◼ ► Yeah, and this brings back to my point about when I write these articles and stuff I'm not actually criticizing the iPad.
01:26:56 ◼ ► I'm criticizing the existence of the iPad Pro because I don't think for most use cases it makes any sense because there are a lot of Pro use cases out there where Pro users might want a convertible but iPad OS can't do it for them.
01:27:13 ◼ ► So you're left with this narrow slice of creative cases with Apple pencil and it's 3D and even Apple struggles a little bit to be like, "What's a creative use that also requires the power of an M4 processor?"
01:27:24 ◼ ► And as the iPad Air gets better and is a lot cheaper I feel like I have to have that question which is like, "Okay, I love the iPad. I think the iPad Air is really good.
01:27:36 ◼ ► What are the things that justify the existence of the iPad Pro and justify its price?" And that's where I just start to struggle a little bit because Apple has built it.
01:27:46 ◼ ► They built it, right? They built the amazing machine but now to what end? And sometimes I get frustrated because I feel like there is no what end there.
01:28:02 ◼ ► You're going to need it for all the AI that you're going to be doing. Okay, alright, fine, fair, fair.
01:28:07 ◼ ► I do want to talk about real quick an actual real incredible Pro use case that I saw today which was the Final Cut Pro 2 and the Final Cut Camera app with Multi View.
01:28:21 ◼ ► So I got to see a demo of them actually. They set up a bunch of cameras and they were doing like a here's a product walkthrough and the product manager was showing us how it worked.
01:28:37 ◼ ► Yes, three or four iPhones and then they had the iPad which was bringing in, it was like getting all of the files, they were like streaming to it as reference files.
01:28:46 ◼ ► And you're able to multi-cam, like edit, like do a very quick edit but you can also change all of the settings of all of the cameras wirelessly and independently of each other.
01:28:59 ◼ ► So they built, yeah, they built this camera app to run on the iPhone or the iPad and it will work in standalone mode.
01:29:07 ◼ ► It's kind of like the Blackmagic camera or one of those apps. It's like it's got a lot of advanced features for capturing video.
01:29:13 ◼ ► But one of the killer features is if you're attached to an iPad running Final Cut, you can remote control those cameras.
01:29:22 ◼ ► So they had one that was mounted, I assume this is the case for you too, that was mounted like high up looking down on the table.
01:29:33 ◼ ► And then the previews are being streamed live over, I think it's an ad hoc Wi-Fi connection and they're obviously they're lower resolution but they're streaming resolution.
01:29:45 ◼ ► And then you can start shooting and you can multi-cam that way and you can adjust them even on the fly, you can change the focus, you can do all those things.
01:29:53 ◼ ► And then at the end when you're done, it will, it's a little like those podcast and video apps where they catch up at the end.
01:30:01 ◼ ► Like when you're done, those apps will continue streaming the full quality video to the iPad so that in the end the iPad can walk away with the whole project, which is also smart, right?
01:30:14 ◼ ► So there's a proxy that is the low quality streamed version and then it backfills it with the full quality version and puts that in the project, which is super clever and super smart.
01:30:24 ◼ ► And I also, one of the people in our group asked about Apple IDs 'cause they're like, do these all have to be on the same Apple ID?
01:30:33 ◼ ► And the person said, no, because you probably don't wanna buy four iPhones, you're probably bringing a bunch of people's iPhones.
01:30:38 ◼ ► And that's fine 'cause you can do an authentication thing where you basically say trust this iPhone and you say yes and then they talk to each other and you can have multi-cam that way.
01:30:49 ◼ ► - Very clever and this is, I believe, a feature that's not gonna be on Final Cut Pro for the Mac because they're doing, most of the logic and Final Cut features that they announced are coming to updates to the Mac versions as well, but I think this particular one is iPad only.
01:31:07 ◼ ► - These iPads are available next Wednesday, which is a very weird day to me. Wednesday.
01:31:17 ◼ ► It's like, okay, Wednesday. It's usually these things are Fridays, right? Like just the middle of next week you can get them.
01:31:26 ◼ ► - I was sitting behind a couple of product reviewers who looked at each other and swore and I laughed because-
01:31:30 ◼ ► - Yep, it's even worse 'cause this was the thing where like Federico's like, okay, next Friday. It's like, no, next Wednesday is when they're available to the public.
01:31:44 ◼ ► Customer success teams are facing a problem. How do they connect customer data back to their work?
01:31:53 ◼ ► An all-in-one collaborative workspace that combines your customer data with all the capabilities you expect from today's project management and work platforms.
01:32:02 ◼ ► Because it's designed for today's customer success team, that is why Vitally operates of unparalleled efficiency, improves net revenue retention, and delivers best in class customer experiences.
01:32:12 ◼ ► It's the solution to helping your customer success teams keep a better pulse on your customers, which maximizes productivity, visibility, and collaboration.
01:32:25 ◼ ► And if you take a qualified demo of Vitally, you'll get yourself a free pair of AirPods Pro.
01:32:32 ◼ ► So if you're a customer success decision maker actively seeking CS solutions, working at a B2B software as a service company with 52,000 employees,
01:32:40 ◼ ► and you're willing to explore changing customer success platforms if you have one in place already,
01:32:45 ◼ ► schedule your call today by going to vitally.io/upgrade and get that free pair of AirPods Pro.
01:32:51 ◼ ► That is vitally.io/upgrade for a free pair of AirPods Pro when you schedule a qualified meeting.
01:33:03 ◼ ► So I put the call out to the Upgradients that if they had questions that we could answer to send them in to askupgrade.
01:33:17 ◼ ► Alex wants to know, "Is the new iPad Pro 13 inch thin and light enough to consider as someone who previously thought it was too heavy for daily use?"
01:33:28 ◼ ► I think, yes. I mean, it depends on if you thought it was absolutely untenable, but I think that this is, weight-wise, fine for daily use.
01:33:51 ◼ ► But if you were right on the edge and you want the bigger screen and you just say, "I wish it was a little lighter and a little thinner," well, it is now.
01:33:58 ◼ ► Stee asks, "Did you get to touch the nanotexture screens? How did they handle fingerprints?
01:34:04 ◼ ► I remember reading that you need special cleaning cloths for the nanotexture display. I'm curious how they handled that for a touch-first device. Did you touch it at all?"
01:34:12 ◼ ► I touched it. It feels like an iPad. It just looks different. They wouldn't make it if it couldn't be touched because it's an iPad.
01:34:21 ◼ ► It does come with a cloth that they recommend you use to wipe down the fingerprints because I think they don't want you to use some other kind of material that might do something weird.
01:34:31 ◼ ► Yeah, you probably don't want to use any kind of cleaning solution on this if they've done something chemically to it, I would expect.
01:34:38 ◼ ► And also, I didn't notice fingerprints. I'm sure that it's just going to show any device.
01:34:44 ◼ ► And I don't know if it's a problem as such. Maybe they showed the fingerprints show more on a glossy display anyway than a matte display? I don't know.
01:35:02 ◼ ► Brian wants to know, "Is there any reason why the new Magic Keyboard doesn't support older iPad Pros? I imagine the dimensions are similar except for thickness."
01:35:16 ◼ ► But the reason would be that the Bigly, primarily, is a quarter of a pound lighter. The physics are totally different. Just think about it.
01:35:33 ◼ ► They did not solve for that process with the old iPad. They used the new iPad. So it's not designed. That's the reason.
01:35:41 ◼ ► My understanding is that they do not work. The old keyboard will not work on the new one because they're not designed for that and they have broken compatibility in order to design something different.
01:35:53 ◼ ► Is there some way to hack the old one to work with the new? Maybe. But Apple's saying don't.
01:36:01 ◼ ► There are times when they've said, "Oh, it will technically still work." But they're saying, "No, this stuff."
01:36:09 ◼ ► The pencil and the keyboard for the new iPads, you must use the new stuff. They've changed things around.
01:36:17 ◼ ► So you've got to bear that in mind for the iPad Pro especially and the Apple Pencil for the iPad Air.
01:36:23 ◼ ► Jeff asks, "The hand-rest area on the new Magic Keyboard is aluminium, but what kind of material did they use on the back or outside? Is it the rubbery material of the old Magic Keyboard?"
01:36:38 ◼ ► Yeah, it looks the same, feels the same. I think I kind of dig the two-tone to be honest.
01:36:45 ◼ ► I don't know. It's probably fine. My concern is that there's the metal part and then there's the other part that are connected together.
01:36:54 ◼ ► I'm a little concerned that that's not going to wear well or that it will come apart or that it will fray right there at that connection between them because it's like one thing is glued to the other one.
01:37:06 ◼ ► So in the long run, we'll see how it survives. But yeah, it's a familiar thing. If you thought your iPad was going to turn into a shiny aluminium laptop when it's closed, that is not what happens.
01:37:18 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean, I ordered a silver iPad Pro. I ordered one already because it was what I wanted as a product.
01:37:33 ◼ ► As I said before, I'm not really using my iPad for stuff or I need a keyboard for it that often or a trackpad.
01:37:39 ◼ ► But I don't like the weight that it adds to the overall package and I love how an iPad feels in a smart cover and that's perfect for me.
01:37:47 ◼ ► But I would not have gotten the silver one because I would not want the mismatching colour and I wouldn't want a white keyboard is the problem, right?
01:38:03 ◼ ► Now, obviously the aluminium won't get dirty, right? So it's not going to pick up grease from your hands in that way that the old smart Magic Keyboard. There was a white Magic Keyboard, right?
01:38:20 ◼ ► Oh yeah, there was a white Magic Keyboard. That's not new. The grey and the white are the same.
01:38:24 ◼ ► Yeah, but the white would discolour, I guess, a little bit. But on this one, at least on the keyboard itself, the keyboard part, it won't because it's aluminium but the outside will still get dirtier than the black one would.
01:38:37 ◼ ► Jeff also asks, "The new Magic Keyboard has a 14-key function row. What is it about the design of the new keyboard that gives you space to be able to reach that new function key row? Is that difference an improvement or a shortcoming?"
01:38:52 ◼ ► It's the... The cantilever doesn't go as far forward probably because the iPad is lighter. And is that a shortcoming?
01:39:01 ◼ ► I mean, right now I would say having a function key row is an improvement. But in terms of the positioning of the iPad, I'm going to have to use it to tell you that. And I will. That's all part of the plan.
01:39:13 ◼ ► But, you know, does it tip over more? Is it too far away? Is it less comfortable on the lap? I didn't get to try any of that stuff, so I can't tell you.
01:39:23 ◼ ► I found for me that the function row is a little more tucked underneath the iPad than I would like, but I don't know how often I would need to use those keys that it would be a problem.
01:39:45 ◼ ► But when you've got it tilted a little bit, you're kind of reaching under the bottom lip of the iPad to hit some of those keys. But I think it's fine.
01:39:55 ◼ ► I did like that one of the keys was you could lock the iPad with the function row. I thought that was cool. Because there's nothing to eject and nothing to turn off, which is what that is.
01:40:10 ◼ ► I wanted the Magic Keyboard to have a floppy drive in it. That would have been so cool.
01:40:15 ◼ ► I mean, look, it would have been a choice, you know? Like if they would have done it and made it work, it would have been a choice.
01:40:25 ◼ ► Kevin says, "I'm coming from a 2020 iPad. I'm assuming iPad Pro, which I use for note-taking, document markup, video consumption, and RSS. Should I upgrade or hold off another cycle?"
01:40:42 ◼ ► Yeah, we're going to say 2020 iPad Pro. Because that was the one that just got the LiDAR.
01:40:48 ◼ ► Yeah. I think what I would say, I'd say I'd hold off and see what iPad OS brings and maybe there'll be some things there that'll make you upgrade.
01:40:58 ◼ ► But unless you're, I mean, this is the thing. This is incredibly impressive hardware, but unless there's a very specific thing about it that speaks to you, you can probably survive a little longer.
01:41:10 ◼ ► Yeah, I would say if you are a 2018 iPad Pro user, which I know there are many, this is probably a pretty great upgrade for you if you use it.
01:41:19 ◼ ► A bunch of the Final Cut and Logic features don't work unless you've got an M1, I think, primarily because of RAM issues and memory management issues.
01:41:31 ◼ ► I also wonder if maybe some of the, well, I mean, look, there is the other question here, which we don't know, is like, what potential features could come to iPad OS and iOS this year that may need new hardware? Like that is a, that's a real possibility. And so like, maybe in a few weeks time.
01:41:53 ◼ ► Yeah, a bunch of iPad OS, AI features where they're like, requires M series. Yeah. You're like, "Okay, maybe I will update them."
01:42:02 ◼ ► M4 or M2 or yeah, maybe. Maybe. I'm doubtful. I think that requires M4. I mean, it's possible. It's possible that there could even be, remember there was that one feature, I don't even remember what it was, where you needed the bigger one.
01:42:15 ◼ ► You needed to have had the big one that had more RAM in it in order to do something. And we, you know, maybe it's possible that could happen. I don't know.
01:42:24 ◼ ► Doug asks, "There's a long list of great changes for these iPads, but what do you think are the most striking updates to the iPad Pro, the keyboard or the pencil after handling them?"
01:42:35 ◼ ► Like what, what really stuck out to you? Well, one, I will ask you actually, are you interested in updating your iPad Pro?
01:42:46 ◼ ► But what makes, what sticks out to you to make this the one that you would maybe update where you haven't before?
01:42:59 ◼ ► Is a mini LED? Okay, sorry, I forget. Yes. M1 was the first one to get it. M2 got it again.
01:43:05 ◼ ► OLED. I can't wait to compare them, but like OLED, I think, and keyboard, partially because I use a keyboard to do my job and I don't really use a pencil to do much of my job other than, and the changes to the pencil don't particularly interest me.
01:43:24 ◼ ► I mean, maybe depending on the apps, the app that I use with the pencil, I could see it, but it's just, I'm not, again, artists are going to feel differently about it.
01:43:34 ◼ ► But for me, the keyboard with the function keys, I read a lot of stuff on my iPad using the magic keyboard.
01:43:44 ◼ ► So that's the one that I am, I think our most striking is the display and the keyboard.
01:43:53 ◼ ► And again, we don't really know. Maybe there are things that are going to be enabled again by iPad OS in the fall that we don't know about yet.
01:44:02 ◼ ► For me, the physical dimensions are a thing like the thinness I think is really compelling.
01:44:09 ◼ ► The Apple Pencil, I think that it's a really nice upgrade that even if you only use it sometimes, you're going to have a great time with it.
01:44:16 ◼ ► Like I cannot express how easy it is to change like tools now by just being able to do the squeeze thing.
01:44:27 ◼ ► And the OLED, as you say, the OLED screen, I mean, I've waited for Apple to put OLED in an iPad for a while now.
01:44:38 ◼ ► And I think it looks fantastic and I look forward to experiencing it in my usual environments with my usual content.
01:44:48 ◼ ► If you would like to send in an Ask a upgrade question in a future episode of your own, please go to upgradefeedback.com and you can do that.
01:45:11 ◼ ► Meet your wellness goals in time for summer thanks to the menu of chef crafted meals with options like calorie smart, protein plus and keto.
01:45:19 ◼ ► Factor's fresh, never frozen meals, dietitian approved and ready to eat in just two minutes.
01:45:24 ◼ ► So no matter how busy you are, you'll always have time to enjoy nutritious, great tasting meals.
01:45:36 ◼ ► With 35 different meals and more than 60 add ons to choose from every week, you'll always have new flavors to explore.
01:45:42 ◼ ► You can reach your wellness goals this May with dietitian approved meals and ingredients that you can trust.
01:45:47 ◼ ► You can treat yourself to restaurant quality products and meals that feature premium ingredients like filet mignon, shrimp and blackened salmon.
01:46:04 ◼ ► Choose from six menu preferences to help you manage calories, maximize protein intake, avoid meat or simply eat well balanced.
01:46:12 ◼ ► And Upgradians know, Jason, how popular the Factor meals are in your whole household, right?
01:46:21 ◼ ► Because she works in an office and needs lunch and they have passed her test and she has rejected many microwaves.
01:46:29 ◼ ► I'm always thinking, why is she didn't she take these leftovers to work and it's like some leftover.
01:46:39 ◼ ► You can go to factormeals.com/upgrade50 and use the code upgrade50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month.
01:46:49 ◼ ► That's the code upgrade50 at factormeals.com/upgrade50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active.
01:47:05 ◼ ► Two things before we finish, the first, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, time, money, time and charts, time, apples, Q2 results.
01:47:19 ◼ ► I don't know. I mean, you probably had it on your calendar, but I totally forgot that this is happening.
01:47:24 ◼ ► I was very surprised to see this hit my RSS feed from six colors, but I want to break this down real quick.
01:48:03 ◼ ► So reading your coverage on this, it seems like the main takeaway for why the iPhone had its...
01:48:16 ◼ ► That essentially there was pent-up demand due to COVID in the year-ago quarter that Tim says pulled basically $5 billion of revenue into that quarter, which is an anomaly.
01:48:32 ◼ ► I will point out that if you take the last two quarters of last year and last two quarters of this year and compare them, they're still down, right?
01:48:40 ◼ ► I think last quarter they didn't say, "Oh, you know, we're up, but you shouldn't count it because there was COVID."
01:48:59 ◼ ► But look, the iPhones in the right ballpark, I think that they said that a lot of their stuff is a difficult compare in part because of the strength of the dollar and that they have seen growth in a lot of markets, but that don't show up in the balance sheet because the growth is happening.
01:49:18 ◼ ► And then in a currency that when you translate to the dollar, the dollar has gotten stronger and so it makes it seem weaker than it actually is.
01:49:27 ◼ ► The big thing for me is that there were all of these reports from various research groups that Apple's phone sales in China were in freefall.
01:49:36 ◼ ► And on the call, Tim Cook was asked about it directly and he was like, "I don't know what to tell you. You just heard our numbers.
01:49:49 ◼ ► So I don't know what that means other than he points at the numbers and says, "We're doing okay in China." Interesting. Interesting conflict there.
01:50:01 ◼ ► He did say, I think, that it's like a really tough market though, which is interesting.
01:50:09 ◼ ► It was like, I don't know, it seemed interesting to me to hear him say that, but it is more competitive there than in other parts of the world, it seems like.
01:50:30 ◼ ► With the Mac being the only product line up year over year, which I guess considering today's comments, we can attribute to the success of the MacBook M3.
01:50:40 ◼ ► I think that is, they did that too. And they said today that the 15-inch is the best selling 15-inch.
01:50:50 ◼ ► We believe in the transformative power and promise of AI, and we believe we have advantages that will differentiate us in this new era, including Apple's unique combination of seamless hardware, software, and services integration, groundbreaking Apple Silicon with our industry-leading neural engines, and our unwavering focus on privacy, which underpins everything we create.
01:51:19 ◼ ► Apple's been building AI-focused hardware, AI-focused chips for seven years. So they're in pretty good shape there.
01:51:30 ◼ ► Privacy is a signal that they're going to do a lot of stuff on device if they can, see the chips thing, and that's an advantage for them because the more, it's not just good for users, but it's good for sort of everybody.
01:51:47 ◼ ► The more stuff that happens on device is the less stuff that is sent into the cloud, which is expensive for companies to have cloud servers to process that stuff when Apple is rolling out chips to everybody that can just do it right there. Plus it's faster.
01:52:05 ◼ ► I don't know. This may be a hint that they're going to do some integration with third-party AI stuff, right? Where it's like, that's not a thing that you get from Apple necessarily, and it's something that happens up in the cloud. That part's, yeah, interesting.
01:52:22 ◼ ► You know, I wonder if there are potentially some features available to iCloud bus subscribers or, you know, if things that cost Apple extra money or whatever it's going to be, I don't know, but it wasn't a surprise for me to hear Tim mention services when talking about this.
01:52:40 ◼ ► It's also rote. I mean, hardware, software and services is what they say. So he may not have, I mean, it may have been hardware, software and services, right? But, you know, they say that they say it all now. So it's in there.
01:53:05 ◼ ► The main reason we're doing lawyer up today is because we have lawyer up artwork now, which you can look at in your podcast player, which is truly incredible. So this is a back to the future like scenario I think we've got. So in Rumour Roundup, there are these two guys and their cowboys.
01:53:35 ◼ ► Taking a bite out of the law. But this is the, we've mentioned this segment before, this is our litigation segment now called lawyer up with its own artwork. And we're here today to talk about core technology fee changes.
01:53:56 ◼ ► So there is no longer going to be a core technology fee payable if an app has no revenue source.
01:54:14 ◼ ► This is the Riley tested like I'm just a kid who made an app that went viral. I don't owe you $3 million.
01:54:32 ◼ ► Now it was a Patreon, right? And so the Patreon would. But yes, back then of like, as they say, as Apple says, this condition is intended to give students hobbyists and other non commercial developers an opportunity to create a popular app without paying the CTF.
01:54:44 ◼ ► So essentially what you could do is if you wanted to have a free app and you're worried that it might blow up or whatever, you could do it. If it does, then you could make a business because you then understand where you are.
01:54:55 ◼ ► And then you'll give Apple the money. Right. But this is it stops that scenario of if you're just looking to do something for fun and it explodes.
01:55:08 ◼ ► I still think there are other CTF changes they should make. There are ones they have made, which we'll talk about, but I'm pleased they did this one.
01:55:18 ◼ ► If you make less than 10 million euros in global revenue a year, you get a three year on ramp for the CTF.
01:55:27 ◼ ► If you cross the 1 million installed threshold for the first time during this three year period, you will not pay the core technology fee.
01:55:36 ◼ ► If your revenue falls, like if your revenue balances at between 10 and 50 million euros during these three years, you would pay the CTF after the first 1 million installs in that, as we just mentioned, but you're capped at paying Apple a million euros a year.
01:56:10 ◼ ► They're trying again. And then the other news that has occurred is that Apple have confirmed they will make the iPad and iPadOS DMA compliant later this fall.
01:56:21 ◼ ► Later this fall, of course, as was prophesied by us. Of course it will be later this fall.
01:56:27 ◼ ► And you know what? It's been a long episode of Upgrade Mike. The fact is, if you stuck with us this long, I know you had to hear some boring legal stuff, but you got to see the lawyer up art.
01:56:45 ◼ ► If you'd like to send us in your feedback, follow up or questions, go to upgradefeedback.com.
01:56:50 ◼ ► You can check out Jason's work. I'm sure there's going to be more writing and information over at sixcolors.com about the new iPads.
01:57:01 ◼ ► You can listen to me here on Relay FM and you can check out my work at cortexbrand.com.
01:57:06 ◼ ► If you want to find us online, Jason is at JSNEL, J-S-N-E-L-L-L. I am at i-Mike, I-M-Y-K-E.
01:57:13 ◼ ► You can watch video clips of this show on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube where we are at Upgrade Relay.