00:00:00 ◼ ► So, hey, I just got back from Tennessee. Howdy, y'all. Sweet. Are you gonna say that now?
00:00:06 ◼ ► Like that's, you know how like, you ever know those people in your life that like, they go to, you know, say England or something? Like some country and then they come back and they have kind of a half accent like forever after that point?
00:00:16 ◼ ► I gotta tell you, the lift at the hotel was extremely slow. I was very sad about it. You're gonna break John. I know John is gonna... Don't they say "howdy" in Tennessee? Is that a howdy state? I don't even know, to be honest with you.
00:00:34 ◼ ► So, honestly, I kind of wish I was in a y'all state because it's like the the second person plural is extremely useful and the rest of English doesn't really, you know, we just have you and you.
00:00:44 ◼ ► I think y'all is spreading. I think I need to see a y'all map. I think it's spreading. I don't think it's South only anymore.
00:00:49 ◼ ► I hear it. I hear it a lot around here. I used it myself a lot at work. I heard it a lot at work at my jobby jobs.
00:01:00 ◼ ► It's not common, but I think it's spreading. I am here for you. Mr. John Syracuse was saying y'all like that that warms my mind.
00:01:12 ◼ ► Well, I certainly wouldn't. I'm used to hearing it. Like I didn't say it with a southern accent.
00:01:16 ◼ ► I just... I think you're required to say it with a little bit of a southern accent though.
00:01:23 ◼ ► and I thank the South for this because like, you know as as we have become a little bit more aware of
00:01:28 ◼ ► Inclusion and things that you know trying to get rid of gendered phrases like guys, you know to refer to just general people
00:01:36 ◼ ► Replace it with something more neutral and you see like what options exist in the language and there's not a lot of good options out
00:01:42 ◼ ► There you know, there's like some some politicians have used like folks, you know, hey folks. I like that one
00:01:47 ◼ ► I use the one myself too. I think it's great. I don't like that one so much very folksy
00:02:00 ◼ ► Like there's not really any context in which it would feel weird or impart any additional
00:02:04 ◼ ► Meaning that you wouldn't intend the way folks kind of does so I feel like y'all is a far superior word
00:02:13 ◼ ► It's fine. It just just means people. It's a shorter version for people. There's I don't think is anything applied about folks
00:02:22 ◼ ► In fact, if anything and I'm a staunch defender of y'all, but I think y'all reads more or sounds more folksy than folks
00:02:35 ◼ ► Motor vehicle safety inspection in Tennessee because every darn car that I was in or near had a shattered windshield, but be that as it may
00:02:56 ◼ ► So many people that I saw and it was so great to see them because I hadn't seen any of them since 2019
00:03:01 ◼ ► And so now I've been whittling down the list of people. I haven't seen you know, Marco and I saw each other in November
00:03:06 ◼ ► I believe it was and then Mike I saw in March if I'm not mistaken now, I've seen this group
00:03:23 ◼ ► However, we are getting prepped for September because if you are a longtime or even a mildly longtime ATP listener
00:03:29 ◼ ► You'll know that September is childhood cancer awareness month and we spend a lot of time and energy raising money for st
00:03:35 ◼ ► Jude Children's Research Hospital, so st. Jude was doing their play life Plus creators summit
00:03:41 ◼ ► Which I guess was born from a video game only crowd in the like twitch streamers and whatnot
00:03:50 ◼ ► I guess I've been doing this for a handful of years and they would come in and you know learn about st
00:04:07 ◼ ► But in this case I was an outcast because I wasn't the right kind of dork because I don't know
00:04:14 ◼ ► See I was gonna say like so they did this is a thing where they were together with like twitch streamers and stuff and it sounds
00:04:19 ◼ ► Like this year they decided to expand it out into much less cool dorks. Oh, correct. That is true
00:04:24 ◼ ► Gasters are welcome now. Well, no, no, it was actually both less cool and more cool dorks because there were definitely some like fashion
00:04:40 ◼ ► Cooler then then the gamer people who were kind of de facto cool because there were so many of them and then me
00:04:46 ◼ ► Podcasters yeah, then a handful podcasters, but it was right now like nobody made me feel like an outsider deliberately
00:04:56 ◼ ► What what do you stream as in what video games do you stream and and that I'd had no good answer for that and it's again
00:05:05 ◼ ► It's just you know, that's what they were used to. But anyway, so what did you say when they said what do you stream?
00:05:13 ◼ ► I'm part of a group that raises a whole pile of money and I said, oh and walked away pretty much
00:05:24 ◼ ► so we went and we learned a little more about st. Jude and I got to take a tour of the campus and
00:05:36 ◼ ► Anyway, even before this trip and holy crap Amole. I am so in the bag for st. Jude right now
00:05:42 ◼ ► It's ridiculous because this stuff these people do is incredible and I mean admittedly, you know
00:05:54 ◼ ► they brought up several different people both employees and patients and everyone in between that said some flavor of the story of
00:06:01 ◼ ► Yeah, either myself or my spouse or you know, my my son or daughter or my cousin or what have you had an extraordinarily?
00:06:13 ◼ ► Was told by my doctors. I have a 10% chance to live then somebody had the idea. Oh, let's call st
00:06:21 ◼ ► I had plane tickets to Memphis and within days I was getting treated and there were many of these stories
00:06:27 ◼ ► It's it's unreal what they do there. It's it's just incredible and they were talking about the family Commons
00:06:34 ◼ ► But basically they took an entire floor of the hospital and said here's what we're gonna do
00:06:37 ◼ ► We're gonna not do hospital things here. We're gonna have a salon. We're gonna have a place where you get your nails done
00:06:42 ◼ ► We're gonna have classrooms. We're gonna have makerspace. They told a story of a young girl that
00:06:54 ◼ ► For her family to listen to after she passed away like I basically cried for three straight days. It was it was nuts. So I
00:07:13 ◼ ► Jude as much of your hard-earned money as we possibly can because they really do just incredible incredible work there and it's so
00:07:20 ◼ ► Incredibly moving the work that they do and you know, I put a blog post up about this will link it in the show notes
00:07:33 ◼ ► Jude and they had this this easel with sort of thing up and it says what inspires you and then I had a bunch of
00:07:44 ◼ ► I was killing sometimes I was looking around at some of these answers and a lot of them are just really adorable and cute whatever
00:07:48 ◼ ► But one of them and I have pictures of both of these on this blog post one of them reads
00:07:57 ◼ ► Jude I was expired inspired by the fact that I will make it with a heart below it like holy balls
00:08:05 ◼ ► Jude and was inspired by the lives they saved including mine. I mean, how can you not be excited about this organization?
00:08:12 ◼ ► So this was a part of the reason a large part of the reason I was there is because in September
00:08:16 ◼ ► We're gonna have a weird recording schedule because I will be at st. Jude for the relay FM podcastathon, which is 12 hours of non-stop
00:08:29 ◼ ► Even if I don't end up going for some strange reason you should tune in because it's incredible and this organization
00:08:41 ◼ ► Saving work and I'm so proud that the three of us have done so much to raise money for them
00:08:47 ◼ ► I'm so proud to be associated with relay who has done so so much to raise money for them
00:08:52 ◼ ► It's just such an incredible incredible place and there's also really good barbecue real right nearby, which is a which is a nice
00:09:02 ◼ ► We went to the pyramid which is a best pro shops, which you two northerners know nothing about
00:09:06 ◼ ► And we also had some barbecue and we got to visit the pod cabin. So I took a picture with my
00:09:16 ◼ ► Well, you know, you should find out watch the podcastathon September, but it was a really good time
00:09:20 ◼ ► Stephen's great host and we had a ton of fun and I'm so excited to go back in September and try to raise a whole pile
00:09:30 ◼ ► Pretty much the whole of the internet wrote to tell us about this tip, which I had known
00:09:38 ◼ ► and so I failed you John but friend of the show Dan Sturm has come through and told us there is a
00:09:43 ◼ ► Way to toggle a dimmable light in the home app and in homekit John. What's the story here?
00:09:58 ◼ ► Couple people wrote in with the idea that this used to be reversed and it used to be if you tapped anywhere
00:10:14 ◼ ► Control Center or tap the home icon and you know try to mess with my light side that brings up the dimmer and
00:10:19 ◼ ► Someone sent me a video and I said doesn't bring up a dimmer for me. It turns my life on and off
00:10:28 ◼ ► I'm like nope brings up the dimmer for me and we never would have figured this out until
00:10:36 ◼ ► Specifically on the icon. These are very big buttons. They're very big touch targets, and I guess I just always tap on the
00:10:46 ◼ ► Maybe it's because I'm using my thumb and I'm coming from the right side because I'm using my right hand
00:10:54 ◼ ► It's not like that the icon is small now that I know it. I think I'll be able to aim for it
00:10:58 ◼ ► I kind of wish it was reversed or I still kind of wish you could just say just make the whole button talk light
00:11:02 ◼ ► I don't know but there you have it the icon does something different than the whole rest of the button
00:11:07 ◼ ► Pedro Fernandez has some information about the haze AT command set. What was this born out of the member special?
00:11:17 ◼ ► Because we were talking about like, you know me getting all these old slow modems slowly over time and still remembering all the AT commands
00:11:27 ◼ ► Oh, no, if you do any kind of development with 4g or 5g connectivity data modules or modems you talk to them with AT commands
00:11:38 ◼ ► They remain a pain I've worked on hundreds of systems and they all require a routine quote-unquote cron
00:11:48 ◼ ► You don't want to drive 300 miles to unfreeze a 4g or 5g data module. Yeah that that sounds right
00:11:53 ◼ ► It's amazing that uh, the modern technology and our modern phone systems this things like this live on
00:12:07 ◼ ► 1.6 nanometer process for 2026 chips. Do we eventually get to zero? Is that how this works? Cuz holy Jamal
00:12:14 ◼ ► Yeah, that's yeah as we've discussed before Morris law does end because at a certain point you can't make things smaller
00:12:19 ◼ ► Well, I mean to be fair like when I was growing up that I believe these are measured in micrometers
00:12:28 ◼ ► I mean, you're right eventually, you know, we can't make them smaller because we run into problems of like physics
00:12:34 ◼ ► This was from Mac rumors from just a few days ago TSMC yesterday on April 24th unveiled a series of technologies
00:12:44 ◼ ► 1.6 nanometer node the a 16 technology which TSMC plans to begin producing in 2026 incorporates innovative nanosheet
00:12:55 ◼ ► This development is expected to provide an 8 to 10 percent increase in speed and 15 to 20 percent reduction power
00:13:16 ◼ ► Someone had mentioned TSMC's backside power thing and I'm like, I thought that was an Intel thing
00:13:24 ◼ ► through the bottom of the chip instead of the top because if you send it through the top you gotta like wiggle it around all
00:13:31 ◼ ► It's a more direct route and you don't have to do that complicated weaving through all the logic that you put in the chip
00:13:41 ◼ ► and the second reason is they're calling it a 16 as if we didn't have enough problems with
00:13:51 ◼ ► And and keeping track of the fact that the a5 was the first a series chip, but it was not in the iPhone 5 now
00:14:01 ◼ ► A16 we are doomed on this show. Like there's they need to come up with new names for things
00:14:21 ◼ ► We're going to season of iOS 18, which is also watch OS 11, which is also vision OS 2 and Matt
00:14:29 ◼ ► I mean with all the ridiculousness of like n to be and into E and into P at least it was different than it
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00:16:38 ◼ ► excuse me designed by Teenage Engineering made by the company rabbit the reviews are in and
00:16:50 ◼ ► We've got Stephen Robles on YouTube and KB HD on YouTube. We've got the verge via tag or a blog post about it
00:17:04 ◼ ► So the same Robles videos good is it shows you all the functionality and how poorly it works?
00:17:09 ◼ ► The MKB HD one is just a straight review as you would expect the MKB HD title is barely
00:17:26 ◼ ► I think at some point one of us even said if this works, which it won't well, it doesn't
00:17:31 ◼ ► You know fairness. I'm pretty sure I was always of the don't bet against the smartphone opinion
00:17:45 ◼ ► And when I say it doesn't seem like it be able to do it like will it do the things they say it will do
00:17:53 ◼ ► It tries to it tries to do like for example you speak to it and can order something from door -
00:18:01 ◼ ► Pretty much. No like watch watch the Steven Robles video like no he could not make it do the thing
00:18:16 ◼ ► Whether this is should be a phone or whatever. It's because it's it's a it's a small company. It's a new product. It's new technology
00:18:24 ◼ ► It's trying to do new things which is like you know automating the function automating the use of a UI made for humans
00:18:34 ◼ ► It's a very clever solution to the problem that a start-up like this doesn't have its own large language model can't do deals with
00:18:43 ◼ ► Execution is not good even within the constraints of the idea that they had which is a shame
00:18:55 ◼ ► Humane pin and the company seems like a lot more fun, and this is just version one and if they survive long enough
00:19:05 ◼ ► Even though it seems like you'd put this on the humane pin in the same bucket of like oh they have this idea of the thing
00:19:11 ◼ ► You're gonna talk to it. It's gonna do stuff for you and both of them didn't quite work. I have
00:19:14 ◼ ► Kinder feelings for the rabbit are one because it's cuter cheaper and has a better idea
00:19:32 ◼ ► Gadget people and as tech people we want things like this to succeed we want them to be good
00:19:40 ◼ ► But ultimately like the phone is just going to slaughter all these things and what we ultimately want
00:20:02 ◼ ► Like technical hardware reason why our phones can't do this like it isn't like we need custom hardware
00:20:09 ◼ ► To have these kind of AI things. No, we we already have it in our phones and maybe our watches too
00:20:19 ◼ ► We already have that we have already bought that are already extremely advanced with their hardware
00:20:25 ◼ ► They're you know, they're cellular connected there. They have amazing processors. They have amazing cameras
00:20:30 ◼ ► They have touch screens that are super easy to navigate stuff on when you do need to look at something or watch or look at
00:20:35 ◼ ► Controls or whatever. They're already integrated with all of your contacts and everything like that all the other apps
00:21:02 ◼ ► WWDC to give us all sorts of promise about things that Android and iPhones will be able to do in the very near future
00:21:10 ◼ ► That will make us very rapidly stop talking about this being separate hardware categories because ultimately these this is not
00:21:18 ◼ ► Destined to be separate hardware categories. This is all destined to just be part of our phones
00:21:27 ◼ ► Connected unfortunately for the people who don't like this topic to the whole EU DMA DOJ everything
00:21:33 ◼ ► Because the reason these things are standalone devices is they have to be they have to be and they and they also they want to
00:21:39 ◼ ► Be and they have to be they want to be in that like look if you're trying to if you want to be the next
00:21:48 ◼ ► So if you have ambitions like we're gonna make the next great platform and we see an opportunity
00:21:51 ◼ ► Here where the big players haven't jumped on AI and we think this is a way that we can get in
00:22:00 ◼ ► rabbit or only humane had the secret sauce to make it work and they had a couple year head start on Apple and they're like
00:22:07 ◼ ► But like maybe well, maybe we'll outrun them or whatever. Obviously that has not happened, right?
00:22:11 ◼ ► So they want to be their own but also they have to be their own because to make anything like this
00:22:19 ◼ ► Separate hardware as in like a thing with a camera that you pin to your lapel or whatever
00:22:23 ◼ ► Is that the integration they need with the phone platforms? They tend not to be able to get certainly with Apple
00:22:33 ◼ ► So if your ambition is to be a much better Siri and but replace Siri on the phone, that would be great
00:22:37 ◼ ► Everyone's got the phones. We're charging them. They're incredibly powerful. Someone else runs the platform. You don't have to do it
00:22:41 ◼ ► But Oh Apple doesn't let you replace Siri do they and they don't let you integrate with their phone so tightly that you how like
00:22:47 ◼ ► Is that it's almost like Apple doesn't let its own watch integrate that well with it because there's so much
00:22:51 ◼ ► connectivity issues between the watches and phones it's gotten better over time, but still
00:22:57 ◼ ► 9to5 Mac it said AI hardware is like trying to invent the iPod after the iPhone and the whole story not once did they mention
00:23:03 ◼ ► the fact that these companies are forced to do this because the people who own the platforms are not interested in allowing a
00:23:10 ◼ ► Third-party to essentially be a peripheral to the phone and that's what we want like with these devices, you know AirPods are great example
00:23:17 ◼ ► They are a peripheral to the phone. Imagine if AirPods tried to be a standalone device with a little computer
00:23:21 ◼ ► I mean they do have computers but like a standalone device with its own OS doing everything all on itself, right connecting to
00:23:27 ◼ ► Cellular and Wi-Fi and just like they didn't connect to the phone at all, right? That's like what these companies are doing
00:23:32 ◼ ► You're like, why would you do that? We have phones and they have amazing computing power
00:23:35 ◼ ► It's like yeah, but I can't integrate with them in the way I need to right so AirPods are great
00:23:45 ◼ ► Auxiliary hardware a peripheral for your phone a thing that you don't have to take out of your pocket
00:23:53 ◼ ► That's what these products want to be but can't be so the fact that these companies are trying to do things that we think are
00:24:00 ◼ ► They're the reason they're technically clever because they're working around a unfortunate business
00:24:04 ◼ ► Situation which is they can't be the products they want to be but every time one of these products
00:24:09 ◼ ► gets funded tries to do this and fails and we look at it and say that's a clever way to try to work around a
00:24:24 ◼ ► Competitive market where innovation can flourish because basically we have to sit back and wait until Google and Apple decide
00:24:31 ◼ ► That they're going to do something and a WWDC Apple will do something and Google already is doing things
00:24:36 ◼ ► But like we don't want to have to wait for these two companies to decide what kind of things they want to do
00:24:41 ◼ ► People have other ideas and they would like to do them but asking them to say to do that
00:24:48 ◼ ► Your own everything be completely independent of the phone because the phone companies are never not the phone companies
00:24:54 ◼ ► You know, I mean, I'm never gonna get the integration you need. That's why this is mostly a story about the
00:25:00 ◼ ► The sort of awkward shape of the market and you know, people are cleverly trying to get around it and it's not like they're old
00:25:06 ◼ ► Doom to failure again if AI was better than it was and one of these companies really hit it out of the park
00:25:14 ◼ ► Where you could get out ahead and start doing something like what do we see recently with?
00:25:19 ◼ ► Maybe you could say maybe the pebble watch got a little traction before the Apple watch squished it every once in a while
00:25:24 ◼ ► There's like something that pops out that gets out ahead of one of the big tech giants before the tech giants wake up and smush
00:25:33 ◼ ► Give them points for trying and especially rabbit. I give a lot of points for coming up with a
00:25:42 ◼ ► Attempt to work around the Giants. But yeah, this is not what we want. We want our air pods
00:25:49 ◼ ► We want a little tiny lapel microphone or camera to see everything around us and explain everything and we want a pair of glasses to
00:25:59 ◼ ► There are a couple of interesting things about this first of all, I thought it was very very well done
00:26:04 ◼ ► I think there's a mention in the 9 to 5 that 9 to 5 Mac link that Dave 2d who's a youtuber I
00:26:11 ◼ ► Put together a clip of this that I'll put in the show notes, but is looking at the the rabbit and says well, you know
00:26:20 ◼ ► What if we took this like the the push to talk about him moved it to the other side and actually let's make them volume
00:26:35 ◼ ► Just by making the things and this is coming back to what you were saying Marco like by making the thing work better for the thing
00:26:43 ◼ ► I mean and the rabbit does run Android and is that people have discovered that basically the thing that's running is essentially an Android app
00:26:49 ◼ ► That you can take you can rip off of the rabbit and put it on an Android phone and run it there
00:26:56 ◼ ► Like that's like wait, I did you think they wrote their own operating system like the play date?
00:27:03 ◼ ► You know modern hardware devices like my scanner is just an Android app and Android and Android of course is just Linux and yeah
00:27:10 ◼ ► The language is running is just Java. Yeah, there's there's a whole bunch of hardware out there
00:27:14 ◼ ► That is quote just an Android app running on some kind of commodity Android tablet kind of guts and you know
00:27:21 ◼ ► And it just so happens. Oh, here's a scanner with a touchscreen. Like what do you think is powering that?
00:27:25 ◼ ► Right. Yeah, a lot of times it's Android. It's fine. Like that's people made a big deal out of this. Oh my god
00:27:30 ◼ ► It's just an app like yeah, of course. That's that's not a story. The story is this device can't compete with smartphones
00:27:37 ◼ ► It's like why didn't you just make a phone? Oh, well making a phone first off. You just made another Android phone great
00:27:45 ◼ ► It's competitive like making a good Android phone is not an easy thing to do and second
00:27:52 ◼ ► They want they wanted to be like the next big thing and that's why they're taking a stab in this direction now
00:28:00 ◼ ► Can you replace like the Google assistant on like Google or Samsung branded Android phones or any of the Android phones that matter?
00:28:06 ◼ ► How open is it to you integrating to sort of have an always always reliable always connected type of high-speed low-latency
00:28:14 ◼ ► connection between a peripheral and the thing, you know more than just Bluetooth, right?
00:28:18 ◼ ► I don't know what that situation is like, but obviously none of these companies were interested in going that route
00:28:27 ◼ ► Being standalone is a tough gig that's kind of another thing the rabbit did and humane for that matter. No apps
00:28:35 ◼ ► Do you know what it's involved with trying to run a platform and vending API's and tools and like that's insane
00:28:40 ◼ ► Like there have been very few successful computing platforms in our entire lives. You can like count them on like fingers and toes, right?
00:28:52 ◼ ► We're just gonna like to be up an appliance a magical appliance through the use of AI. Maybe we can be independent and
00:28:58 ◼ ► Unfortunately, the magic they relied on were LMS that are not up to this job, which is a shame
00:29:13 ◼ ► When we don't need to belabor this but you know the humane people were talking about how they're you know
00:29:18 ◼ ► God's gift to software and hardware development and how we're the best for the best for revolutionizing
00:29:25 ◼ ► look at us and how smart we are in our colorways and this and that and everyone pooped all over them because they
00:29:38 ◼ ► So who cares and it's just so funny to me that an ounce of humility it really does go a long way
00:29:51 ◼ ► Although I will say the Jesse fellow seemed to be kicking rocks and humane direction an awful lot lately
00:29:56 ◼ ► But I still think the broader point is fair that maybe just don't be a jerk and things will work out a little better for you
00:30:06 ◼ ► The hardware is cute, but also cheap right there their business model of trying to work around the big companies
00:30:15 ◼ ► It is like if you're gonna blow $200 on something that doesn't work feels much better than blowing 600 on it
00:30:19 ◼ ► I mean they put a screen on it another example. They're like, well, let's just how about we have a screen
00:30:24 ◼ ► How about that instead of like a laser projector right simpler cheaper, you know, it just it shows more pragmatic choices
00:30:34 ◼ ► They're doomed to failure but like it just it's it's a tough gig to coming out with a product like that with so much attention on
00:30:46 ◼ ► I'm gonna say they don't work that like spectacular failures, but it's pretty big failure when it's not like oh, it's a little slower
00:30:54 ◼ ► It's a little buggy like both of them have cases where they just simply do not do what the product is supposed to do and that
00:31:10 ◼ ► But just general feedback with regard to Delta availability. So a toot from Riley getting some questions about Delta availability
00:31:21 ◼ ► Because of Apple's new developer terms all downloads in the EU cost us 50 euro cents a year in alt store store pal
00:31:28 ◼ ► And the App Store so we couldn't offer Delta in the EU app stores without making a page
00:31:33 ◼ ► App Store only supports one-time paid upfront apps, so we'd have to pick a price that could support
00:31:49 ◼ ► They would choose to make everything free everywhere if it wasn't for the core technology fees
00:31:54 ◼ ► So I mean you made this bed EU so now you got to sleep in it. I thought like Apple made the bed
00:32:05 ◼ ► I mean, it's I think a little calm a little calm me, but you're you're more right than wrong. I'm moving the world moving along
00:32:11 ◼ ► iPad OS has been identified as a quote-unquote digital gatekeeper under the new EU tech rules. So
00:32:19 ◼ ► Snippets from Mac rumors left September the European Commission designated Apple as a gatekeeper for its iOS phone operating system
00:32:27 ◼ ► the Commission opened a market investigation to whether iPad OS constitutes an important gateway for business users to reach end users in order to
00:32:40 ◼ ► The Commission's investigation found that Apple presents the features of a gatekeeper in relation to iPad OS for the following reasons
00:32:49 ◼ ► 11-fold while its end user numbers were close to the threshold and predicted to predicted to rise in the near future
00:32:58 ◼ ► I Apple leverages its large ecosystem to disincentivize and users from switching to other operating systems for tablets and
00:33:04 ◼ ► number three business users are locked into iPad OS because of its large and commercially attractive user base and its importance for certain use cases such
00:33:12 ◼ ► Commission is now given Apple a six-month deadline to fully comply with the obligations set by the DMCA
00:33:18 ◼ ► which means we should expect enforced changes in iOS and iPad OS like alternative app stores web distribution and
00:33:25 ◼ ► Alternative browsers and that should all come to iPad OS as well in a forthcoming update. I think this makes sense
00:33:31 ◼ ► I like how the reasons are like well, we have a bunch of criteria. I bet almost meets them, but whatever it's the same
00:33:42 ◼ ► Like it's kind of weird that iPad OS didn't get folded in to begin with but they went through this little dance to say
00:34:02 ◼ ► Circumstances or whatever, but the thing is the EC can do whatever the hell they want and this is what they want to do
00:34:07 ◼ ► So and it just honestly it makes it simpler because I have time always forgetting. Oh, yeah, there's no alternative
00:34:14 ◼ ► Marketplaces on iPad OS but now there will be and it's more consistent for Apple. It's more consistent for users
00:34:19 ◼ ► It just makes more sense. So yep. I mean this this this is good. This is good. Good work you
00:34:40 ◼ ► German says that Apple's latest vision pro roadmap quote doesn't currently call for a second generation model until the end of 2026 quote in
00:34:49 ◼ ► He said that the device was at least 18 months away according to German sources Apple still trying to figure out a way to bring a
00:34:55 ◼ ► Cheaper version of market before then although the company remains flummoxed by how exactly to bring down the cost
00:35:00 ◼ ► Kind of tangentially related. I don't recall if we said this on the show, but they did actually release the second episode of the
00:35:16 ◼ ► It's been a wonky recording schedule for us, but it has been released and it's another like five minute thing and it was fine
00:35:23 ◼ ► I did have somebody reach out on mastodon and said hey I worked on this and just so you know
00:35:28 ◼ ► It's it's I was gonna say historically accurate. I guess that's not the right term turn a phrase
00:35:35 ◼ ► So like things that should have feathers have feathers and colors are as best as we think they could be at the time
00:35:41 ◼ ► I won't be able to dig up these toots to link to them. I'm sorry, but I did find that fascinating
00:36:01 ◼ ► But what it basically means is the parts in this that are expensive are not getting cheaper
00:36:18 ◼ ► They're not the most expensive component in this thing. Anyway, and Apple has some control over that and the aluminum and stuff
00:36:28 ◼ ► but the screens that are in front of your eyeballs are not made by a lot of companies are not in wide supply and
00:36:34 ◼ ► Apparently are not going to get cheap enough fast enough for Apple to come out with something sooner
00:36:40 ◼ ► so this is gonna be a long wait with the what it's like who would have predicted that the
00:36:45 ◼ ► The Apple like the glasses the goggles the VR whatever we were talking about the headset
00:36:50 ◼ ► But we were talking about before this was released that will end up being essentially an HomePod like product
00:36:56 ◼ ► Where they release one and it sits there and people go. Hmm Apple still doing this thing or
00:37:01 ◼ ► So I know it's not a good a good comparison when people start thinking of your product the same way
00:37:08 ◼ ► They think of the HomePod the big HomePod that is but if this is true and there's not any other
00:37:23 ◼ ► You know people people are making a big deal out of that news. I don't think that's that surprising
00:37:29 ◼ ► I think the bigger surprise for me with this launch is that Apple seems to be putting no wood behind the arrow
00:37:42 ◼ ► But as you mentioned like there's some pretty critical inhibitions to making it cheaper that are gonna stay that way for
00:37:47 ◼ ► Probably at least like five years like, you know, we're not close to making it cheaper at least a lot cheaper like yeah
00:37:54 ◼ ► Yeah, you know you could make it a little bit cheaper with some of the cuts here and there as you're mentioning
00:37:57 ◼ ► But like it's not gonna be a mass-market priced device for some time if ever so in the meantime
00:38:15 ◼ ► That's the part that's the surprise to me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot happening there yet
00:38:21 ◼ ► Like I would have assumed since there really was no like, you know competitive pressure to release this when they did
00:38:28 ◼ ► I would have assumed it would be more like you mentioned the play that a little earlier casey
00:38:48 ◼ ► We're selling a brand new hardware platform with no installed base and no software library that will be there when we get there
00:38:55 ◼ ► So we have to create that so they did like and that was a great strategy. It worked very well. I
00:39:03 ◼ ► Because they had plans to give it a real, you know oomph kind of release that seems to not have been the case
00:39:14 ◼ ► How many people does panic have there there's such a big corporation with huge staff incredibly well resourced
00:39:25 ◼ ► exactly, so like that's like that's what that's what the vision pro needs like what it needs is
00:39:30 ◼ ► Reasons for the people who are willing to spend 35 $3500 which again that's not gonna be mass market for some time
00:39:42 ◼ ► They're not massive, but they exist Apple has served them in other ways before there is a market there at the current price
00:39:57 ◼ ► Non-price ways and if they launched a brand new hardware revision, you know in in six months or a year instead of this
00:40:04 ◼ ► This rumor of 2026 whatever like if they launched one earlier, that's not gonna change that like what's holding it back right now is
00:40:14 ◼ ► It's the price which won't change for a long time and the ecosystem and the software just kind of not like
00:40:19 ◼ ► What's the killer app? Where's the killer content? That's what we need now. They don't need more hardware releases
00:40:28 ◼ ► I mean like I know one was kind of more important than the other but like that's the reason I compared it to the home
00:40:33 ◼ ► Pod is when people don't see updates to a product year over year, especially for like three years in a row
00:40:38 ◼ ► they start to wonder about the company's commitment and that's really death for a new platform and
00:40:43 ◼ ► Even though new hardware like it's I mean, it's not gonna be that different within a year or two
00:40:48 ◼ ► Like what the technology is not advancing that quickly, but it does show Oh Apple still committed to this
00:40:53 ◼ ► They've made some twain even if it's just like physical changes like we have a little bit better ideas for straps now that we've put
00:41:01 ◼ ► Even if it's exactly the same screen still an m2 like just minor revisions shows that the company is committed to the product
00:41:09 ◼ ► No, that's not gonna move the market, but it will make people feel a little bit more comfortable
00:41:12 ◼ ► Especially if you're you know a a tech gadget fan that like Apple is committed to this obviously content also
00:41:20 ◼ ► Would do that to make you know that Apple's committed to but if they just release content and everyone was loving it three years in
00:41:28 ◼ ► But what they need to release more of this and need to make a cheaper one because no one's gonna buy this is too expensive
00:41:40 ◼ ► But of course that will be equally expensive or even more expensive and then there also needs to be a cheaper one
00:41:50 ◼ ► Unsold like the big home pods were and then when Apple does come out with the new one would like the home pod mini
00:42:03 ◼ ► But we changed our mind. We'll make the big one again. And here's a better one. Like that's not a good path
00:42:07 ◼ ► For instilling confidence and the home pods not even a platform. That's the home pod is not a platform
00:42:15 ◼ ► This is a platform and so you need people to believe in it need developers to believe in it
00:42:21 ◼ ► you need to have it show signs of life and one of the ways you can show signs of life is
00:42:25 ◼ ► Don't wait three years between changing the hardware at all. I mean see also the mac pro
00:42:37 ◼ ► Like you were saying a moment ago Marco that there really hasn't been much of a push for content like since the launch
00:42:53 ◼ ► It right like yeah other than some some bug fixes and mild improvements to the OS and in some legitimately pretty
00:43:07 ◼ ► But even still like that's not that much and you would think and I think the playdate is a just perfect
00:43:26 ◼ ► Well, I mean talk about like a way to get content for quote-unquote for free like hey Netflix content YouTube
00:43:31 ◼ ► It's kind of it had to be third parties to like make these own kind of a webkit enabled
00:43:37 ◼ ► Screen scraping clients to try to do something useful out of it. Yeah, it's just it's not pretty good
00:43:42 ◼ ► Are we still I think we're still waiting on those coming soon new environments, right? Oh, that's true. Yeah
00:43:46 ◼ ► Yeah, I forgot about that is all those gonna come out the end of 2026 - yeah fair Netflix and YouTube
00:43:53 ◼ ► There's lots of reasons why that's kind of out of Apple's control some of which are their fault
00:43:58 ◼ ► But it but still like, you know, that's not within their control directly. They could have thrown more money at it
00:44:15 ◼ ► So for instance, they do have content studios. They could be making more of this content
00:44:21 ◼ ► They could have made it in advance certain deals. They could make with other content providers, you know things like the sports leads
00:44:29 ◼ ► But you need something there now for people to use this device with now and then of course
00:44:35 ◼ ► Other things that they could make themselves directly like things like the environments we were saying or their own apps
00:44:40 ◼ ► Yeah, yeah. Yeah, every Apple app that shipped is an iPad app on the vision Pro is kind of like, yeah
00:44:45 ◼ ► I know this this comes up occasionally whenever when we I want you to know out there audience when we criticize Apple
00:45:01 ◼ ► This is just like no matter how much we all want the vision Pro to succeed because it is amazing technology
00:45:08 ◼ ► Like we all we all are rooting for this. We were rooting for this. We still are rooting for this to succeed
00:45:16 ◼ ► But it just looks like Apple is fumbling the ball so badly sorry for the sports analogy
00:45:22 ◼ ► but like it just looks like they're they just were not prepared to have actually launched us and it almost seems like
00:45:28 ◼ ► We have more faith in the product than large parts of Apple do and and that's concerning and and the problem is if
00:45:36 ◼ ► They don't put a bunch of wood behind that arrow no one's going to buy it and keep it and keep using it and the platform
00:45:43 ◼ ► Will fail even though it's an amazing piece of hardware if the outcome that we want is for this product to succeed
00:45:50 ◼ ► We should be bugging bugging Apple from the outside be like hey, you know, you gotta like do something here, right?
00:45:56 ◼ ► Like, you know, this is not gonna fix itself like this the situation in the vision Pro right now
00:46:01 ◼ ► Over time this is not going to get better unless changes are made like this isn't something that will work itself out
00:46:07 ◼ ► It isn't like oh, we're just right around the corner from a bunch of apps being made for it
00:46:21 ◼ ► What I see is the slope going down down down down down that does not tell me that I as a developer should invest in
00:46:28 ◼ ► This platform what about content makers? What about Netflix? What about YouTube? They're seeing the same graphs?
00:46:34 ◼ ► I'm sure of whatever data they have showing how many of their of their potential customers might be using this thing and
00:46:42 ◼ ► At from from a pretty low number to begin with and so if you follow this out what's going to happen?
00:46:47 ◼ ► What how is this gonna look six months from now? How's it gonna look a year from now if
00:46:56 ◼ ► It's going to be you know just a continuation of this downward slope with almost no one left using it
00:47:05 ◼ ► And it's not gonna come from the outside because the outside parties have no reason to do it
00:47:26 ◼ ► And had a hard drive and it was very different from what you see today, but it was essentially
00:47:32 ◼ ► similar product similar job an Apple connected thing that you you know you connect to your television and it helps you watch TV and
00:47:42 ◼ ► To find whatever legs it has there was a long time where Apple itself would refer to it as a hobby
00:47:47 ◼ ► Project to sort of undercut it and damp tamp down expectations that is not how the vision pro is launched to say the least as a hobby
00:47:54 ◼ ► Product right, but that did kind of give it you know they had to figure out like what should this be a Mac
00:47:59 ◼ ► Should it run Mac OS 10 should it have a hard drive like what is the right role for this product?
00:48:27 ◼ ► But Apple didn't give up on it. They just rethought regroup tried a couple times made a couple really bad remotes
00:48:36 ◼ ► If you don't give up, and you're willing to keep putting money into it, and you do actually do
00:48:42 ◼ ► Occasional updates you can make progress, but again Apple TV as a platform. I think is not where Apple wants
00:48:50 ◼ ► Vision Pro to be as a platform and Apple TV was not launched with the same fanfare as vision Pro
00:48:57 ◼ ► What Apple is saying about the vision Pro and how much it costs and how they launched it and the actual?
00:49:17 ◼ ► iPad Pro exit interview, and I don't know Marco. This is kind of your baby. Do you have any opening statement?
00:49:24 ◼ ► Do you want to start do you want to yeah? Yeah, so whenever whenever we think that a new?
00:49:30 ◼ ► Product or read more recently OS version is about to be unveiled like we'll do one right before the BBC for iOS 17 etc
00:49:51 ◼ ► The iPad Pro is probably about to be replaced before or right on our next show the current iPad Pro
00:50:09 ◼ ► That was when the 11-inch was released when they got the flat side the magnetic pencil face ID
00:50:21 ◼ ► But overall I think it's really been a fantastic product and kind of going into the what is most likely to be the update I think
00:50:41 ◼ ► Number one thing I wanted was move the face ID sensor to either the corner or the long edge
00:50:52 ◼ ► Which is how I almost always use it usually with a keyboard and not have your hand cover the face ID sensor
00:50:59 ◼ ► It has been rumored for a while one of the more recent iPad base models actually did that they actually moved the face ID camera
00:51:09 ◼ ► Basic improvements just like things we've learned along the way and for me the major theme for things we've learned along the way since
00:51:24 ◼ ► There is some kind of keyboard whether it's one of Apple's many options for keyboards for the iPad
00:51:30 ◼ ► Or whether it's a third-party keyboard case, whatever. I really never use an iPad regularly
00:51:46 ◼ ► And you know it does it but like again like the face ID and the camera were in the wrong spot for it
00:51:51 ◼ ► Though you know the volume buttons and everything like everything on it is clearly in the wrong spot
00:51:58 ◼ ► So I would like to see an iPad Pro. You know whatever they choose to do with the other ones whatever
00:52:05 ◼ ► But the iPad Pro I think is maybe more likely than the others to be used with a keyboard
00:52:51 ◼ ► Some kind of physical like clip kind of thing something that the keyboard can clip into
00:53:21 ◼ ► But like I'm not talking about like some kind of giant slot that runs the whole into the thing this could be like
00:53:30 ◼ ► The millimeter wave window on an iPhone on the side of the iPhones the recent ones a little oval
00:53:35 ◼ ► Inset into it with some latch mechanism inside that a keyboard could be designed to latch into
00:53:45 ◼ ► Attaching things with magnets is great. It is great when you have no other options when it is the best option
00:53:50 ◼ ► It isn't always the best option. It is especially not always the best option with the Apple pencil, and this is like that now I guess
00:53:57 ◼ ► The Apple pencil always falls off the iPad Pro when you to point you bring it in and out of any bag ever the pencil will
00:54:05 ◼ ► Many pencils have been lost or have fallen into bags or airline seat gaps or whatever from this reason. I would love to see
00:54:25 ◼ ► I think this is even less likely than the m4 rumor like I think this is very very unlikely to be the design
00:54:37 ◼ ► Cutouts that something could could poke into with strong metal and maybe have like a little expanding latch part that expands out and latches it
00:54:58 ◼ ► The keyboard could then be like half the weight it could be way smaller way lighter way
00:55:06 ◼ ► mechanically simpler which maybe could allow them to lower the obscene prices of those smart keyboards and
00:55:15 ◼ ► Size and weight competitive with similarly sized laptops because right now. It's really not it gets pretty bulky
00:55:44 ◼ ► And it just looks like a perfect uninterrupted form that is not super compatible with many realities
00:55:57 ◼ ► Bolt things to it with magnets or have cables coming out in weird ways like that's the reality
00:56:08 ◼ ► What they actually need how they're actually used that way the way most people actually end up using them can be more graceful and can
00:56:15 ◼ ► Work better, so that's what I want. I don't think I'm going to get it, but I want that more than I want any other
00:56:25 ◼ ► The M4 or the M3 or AI it's more important to me than OLED screens even sorry John like
00:56:40 ◼ ► Actually using it more like a laptop, and it won't happen probably well. You just want a touchscreen laptop running iPad OS
00:56:48 ◼ ► Yes, you just cut to the chase. No, but it's convertible. It would still be convertible in fact
00:56:52 ◼ ► More easily you just pop it right out. Yeah, so I mean the the the holes idea is interesting
00:56:59 ◼ ► But I don't think actually solves the main problem which is the weight distribution because all of the computing guts are in the quote-unquote
00:57:10 ◼ ► I mean I know what you're saying about like instead of having the maggots in the back have an attachment point that saves you some
00:57:18 ◼ ► So I don't know I think it had to really sketch this out to try to come up with something that actually is both lighter
00:57:24 ◼ ► Sturdier with the addition of holes, but it's it's a tough sell, and I don't think they're gonna go in that direction
00:57:35 ◼ ► I think that it was a really important design and in the evolution of the iPad in particular the
00:57:44 ◼ ► It does come off it is better than the previous pencil which didn't stick to it at all way better
00:57:51 ◼ ► And I think basically it only stayed around for like one generation too long right like this last time when it didn't get revised
00:57:57 ◼ ► And just got new guts on the inside and when the the iPad 10th gen or whatever got the landscape camera and everything
00:58:05 ◼ ► Yeah, this year. It's kind of a shame the iPad Pro, but that's just one year right there still
00:58:19 ◼ ► I think we can Casey do you have any iPad iPad Pro exit interview stuff before we dive into the announcement?
00:58:35 ◼ ► predominantly Michaela at this point, but you know deco when we use it from time to time and I had bought the
00:58:50 ◼ ► Absolutely adore that as an around the house computer as in in the car as a passenger computer things of that nature
00:59:08 ◼ ► Mm-hmm. I was gonna say windshield shattering. Yes, that's true. Let me remind you Apple
00:59:31 ◼ ► I I don't particularly disagree with anything Marco is saying with regard to like cases and things like that
00:59:37 ◼ ► I use the cantilevered. What is it magic keyboard is that right? I always get them backwards
00:59:41 ◼ ► The magic is the more expensive cantilevered one the smart keyboard cover is the one that I use and Craig Federighi uses
00:59:56 ◼ ► and so I I do have one of those that's what's on Michaela's iPad and I use that until the
01:00:27 ◼ ► 2022 iPad is that it's not really that much better than the 2018 like it's noticeably better but not night and day better even though
01:00:34 ◼ ► You know four years had elapsed and I think the only thing that I see now we're leaving the exit interview part
01:00:40 ◼ ► Sorry, John, but the only thing I really seek from a new one. Well, first of all, I don't sitting here now
01:00:46 ◼ ► but the only thing I really seek is I would love to have the FaceTime the front facing camera on the
01:00:53 ◼ ► Longer edge but like the pencil yet falls off all the time, but at least it can connect that doesn't really bother me
01:00:59 ◼ ► The cantilever keyboard is heavy, but it's you know, I love that thing. I think it's worth it's worth
01:01:14 ◼ ► But the corner one of the corners of mine is looking real gross and like the the outer shell like the kind of rubbery outer
01:01:22 ◼ ► There's definitely some other spots that have like nicks and whatnot that it's not aged
01:01:27 ◼ ► Extraordinary extraordinarily gracefully, so maybe a little bit better keyboard. Oh and actually come to think of it
01:01:33 ◼ ► You know and now that I'm wish casting bigger trackpad, which is a common refrain, you know
01:01:38 ◼ ► I think Jason and Mike talked about this the connected boys talked about this bigger trackpad and for the love of all that
01:01:46 ◼ ► I would love that on a future keyboard but in the grand scheme of things the hardware itself like it's fine
01:01:58 ◼ ► For the Apple pencil. I do have one and when I use it, I really really like it, but I'm not an artist
01:02:17 ◼ ► I mean what we're not talking about which is we have no reason to talk about it until they've ever see is the OS which
01:02:23 ◼ ► As we always say is the main thing that's holding back, but we're not getting a new OS for the iPad on May 7th
01:02:31 ◼ ► We're just talking about the hardware but honestly part of the one big part of the the problem with the iPad
01:02:57 ◼ ► But it did have what it have it had had a bunch of different images. I got the one that had someone holding an Apple pencil
01:03:04 ◼ ► Yeah, which might be the first time that Apple literally put the product they're gonna announce in the image
01:03:09 ◼ ► Because it's so clearly an Apple pencil. It's not it's not like a regular pencil. It's an Apple pencil
01:03:14 ◼ ► But there was apparently six possible images that you can get and they're all kind of abstract
01:03:33 ◼ ► But anyway, you would think that they're gonna have an event on May 7th where they're gonna announce an Apple pencil and that's it
01:03:42 ◼ ► So that's great. But the actual iPad as I said earlier in the year, I think is the hardware product
01:03:51 ◼ ► Because I'm definitely gonna get one that the rumors are true and it has an OLED screen because I use my iPad as
01:03:59 ◼ ► And OLED is better for TVs the black levels on the current 11 inch iPad Pro are very bad
01:04:06 ◼ ► And OLED won't have that problem. And so I'm excited for it and honestly from a hardware perspective
01:04:18 ◼ ► This is a very significant upgrade to the screen so significant that I think this will be the best screen that Apple sells
01:04:30 ◼ ► So there's the question of whether those are screens, but I guess but even within that realm I think this one will have
01:04:36 ◼ ► Better color reproduction and brightness than the vision Pro once it maybe not as high resolution
01:04:42 ◼ ► But better color reproduction and brightness and also you don't to strap it to your head
01:04:45 ◼ ► All right, but just for traditional screen setting aside things that are inside goggles for traditional screens this
01:04:51 ◼ ► I think this is gonna be everything that they sell if the rumors are true. It's supposedly a
01:04:54 ◼ ► Dual-stacked OLED. So the problem with OLED says you can't make them too bright over there
01:05:01 ◼ ► So instead they take two OLEDs and put them on top of each other and run each one. It's slightly lower power
01:05:06 ◼ ► So each individual OLED doesn't wear itself out as fast but the total light throughput you get is I don't know if it's double
01:05:21 ◼ ► So I know that's not exciting to most people except for maybe color reproduction for people who are trying to do like professional
01:05:45 ◼ ► I think that's that's probably more narrow interest for people who want to use it for productivity
01:05:53 ◼ ► Reason that the landscape camera is important because people are watching video. I would imagine mostly in landscape
01:05:59 ◼ ► I don't think people are blowing up the tick-tock app to 2x and watching everything vertically on it
01:06:03 ◼ ► So the landscape camera helps with the people use it as a mini TV. I cover that stupid camera with my hand all the time
01:06:10 ◼ ► And the screen it's basically a big screen and it'll be an amazing screen and then the other thing about the guts
01:06:18 ◼ ► For what it says about the iPad and more so for what it says about all their other products is the m4 rumor
01:06:29 ◼ ► The MacBook Air just came out the m3 and who's been out for a while put it an iPad sure
01:06:42 ◼ ► There's two sets of evidence. I've meant to grab this one from a screenshot. One of them was the
01:06:46 ◼ ► Was it the part number for the the CPU and Apple has these weird internal part numbers like the m2 was?
01:07:13 ◼ ► But the rumor the people trying to find like things in the OS or whatever says that this new upcoming iPad is t8 1 3
01:07:22 ◼ ► Hmm. I know it's confusing because one is the m2 and two is the m3 that's made on the a16 process for
01:07:30 ◼ ► 11 inch iPad for my iPad OS 17 the part number if they follow this if they follow the same pattern the part number says
01:07:37 ◼ ► It's an m4 and the other thing is that the like the product number this sort of internal product numbers that Apple has for its devices
01:08:02 ◼ ► Was and the iPad proven 2020 were labeled iPad 13 comma something and they have the m1 and all the iPads that have the m2
01:08:20 ◼ ► so they're skipping iPad 15 which would have been the m3 model and that leads more evidence to this being the m4 so
01:08:39 ◼ ► I find this so hard to believe and if it wasn't for this like 16 comma, whatever whatever
01:08:49 ◼ ► Model number thing is really giving me pause and the part number thing because the part numbers even more obscure those like t8
01:08:56 ◼ ► Whatever like that's super obscure like what there'd be no reason to like fake that or skip a number and that that's really even farther
01:09:06 ◼ ► they they skipped over the m3 thing and this looks like it's gonna have an m4 and I find it perfectly plausible because
01:09:16 ◼ ► 3 whatever chip that Apple has made has been on the m3b process, which is super expensive and
01:09:28 ◼ ► But they don't want to stick with it for any longer than they have to and so if TSMC can
01:09:38 ◼ ► You bet Apple would love to not have to pay to make another super expensive and 3b based products
01:09:46 ◼ ► And I think it is plausible that you can announce something on May 7th with an m14 in it
01:09:54 ◼ ► TSMC doesn't always publicly say when they're doing all you know, so I I think it is plausible
01:10:00 ◼ ► I think it's plausible based on the part numbers things plausible based on the timing, but it's super interesting because
01:10:05 ◼ ► That would mean that the m4 all the rumors about the m4 lineup and how like by the end of next year every single Mac
01:10:36 ◼ ► Doesn't that also have to have the m4 or maybe not maybe they just announced the m3 ultra like I just
01:11:05 ◼ ► Gurman's traffic records been pretty good about the concert recently and he's pretty sure about it from his sourcing
01:11:10 ◼ ► so like it's looking like this is a real possibility and and you know to some degree like we don't we don't know how
01:11:18 ◼ ► Big of an update the m4 is compared to the m3 like, you know, John mentioned like there is this this process
01:11:32 ◼ ► It was very this very expensive process and that's what the m3 and all of last fall's phone chips were made on
01:11:52 ◼ ► You know and three whatever the what's the new one n3p and m3e and but and keep in mind m3e is essentially
01:12:11 ◼ ► So Apple wants to get off that everyone wants to get off it as soon as possible, but not because n3e is
01:12:28 ◼ ► I assume like whatever they do with the neural engine or if they rebranded or whatever AI mumbo jumbo like that could
01:12:35 ◼ ► But I mean, I don't think it's just a warmed over m3 because the the thing about n3e is it's not
01:12:41 ◼ ► Whatever the term is it's not compatible with the designs they did for n3b. So you have to essentially relay out the chip
01:12:49 ◼ ► More of its own device than we might imagine because it's not like they can just take the exact layout of the m3 and stamp
01:12:59 ◼ ► So what that if if this is if the the last this is the start of the m4s and there are no more m3s
01:13:08 ◼ ► We use the most expensive process that no one else wanted to pay for and we did a whole bunch of chips all at once
01:13:14 ◼ ► But if on the other hand W3C comes and they've introduced an m4 iPad Pro and they say and now here's the new
01:13:38 ◼ ► so I just it and it's so strange to be launching this in the iPad because who has an iPad who's like
01:13:47 ◼ ► Like no one is thinking that they're thinking it needs a better OS and needs a better keyboard to Marco's point
01:14:02 ◼ ► about things like the process node switch how n3b is so expensive owns kind of a dead end I'm
01:14:12 ◼ ► You were saying Apple wants to get off of that process quickly that the m3 and the a whatever we're on for the phones that
01:14:19 ◼ ► This like there's a reason why this year only the pro phones got the got the new a chip with the three nanometer process
01:14:30 ◼ ► We've already for months heard the rumors that this coming falls iPhones are both going to get a new chip
01:14:37 ◼ ► So it's not going to continue that lag of like, you know, the the cheaper phone has has last year's chip
01:14:59 ◼ ► It seems it's not going to go to next year's cheaper phone when Apple's house making the iPhone 15 pros this September
01:15:05 ◼ ► That chip is gone. It's not in anything else. That's one of the chips out of the way then we have the m3 generation
01:15:12 ◼ ► Well, it sure looks like we've heard rumors so far and it sure looks like just based on timing
01:15:19 ◼ ► What's gonna be left with the n3b process chips, which are the m3 m3 pro m3 max and a whatever is on the phone?
01:15:33 ◼ ► Those both get updated pretty much every year to every chip that comes out for them on the iMac the iMac
01:15:42 ◼ ► but anyway, so the iPad pro gets updated less frequently and so maybe what they're looking to do here is
01:15:49 ◼ ► Jump the iPad pro forward first because then they can keep making that for the next two years
01:16:05 ◼ ► For the really important high-end products that need a 3 nanometer to get ahead stay competitive
01:16:19 ◼ ► The products that have longer refresh cycles or are kind of less important like the Mac mini the Mac studio
01:16:32 ◼ ► That's but but you know, maybe they'll just update that, you know with the output the MacBook Air
01:16:39 ◼ ► I think the iMac will move to m4 quickly. Like I don't think the m3 iMac is gonna be around for four years
01:16:45 ◼ ► I think they're gonna move that to them for as quick, you know quicker than we think but we'll see
01:16:53 ◼ ► Something that Apple is trying to get out there as quickly as possible to minimize the amount of time
01:17:06 ◼ ► Massive expectations for the m4 over the m3 because m3 is was the m3 was already a big jump
01:17:24 ◼ ► Like Apple should be leading into this everyone else is and they look like they're behind
01:17:27 ◼ ► So they should be leading into AI as a marketing thing their chips already are good at many AI related tasks
01:17:34 ◼ ► They're already good at running inference. They're already good at training. They already have good GPUs good neural engines
01:17:46 ◼ ► That's because all of their chips are pretty good for that relative to other consumer product chips
01:17:50 ◼ ► So they can still say all that while the m4 doesn't necessarily need to be a major jump forward
01:17:59 ◼ ► Everything move to the m4 as quickly as possible possibly even all in this calendar year. We'll see
01:18:04 ◼ ► Well, the problem is the rumors for like the good beefy m4 chips for like the studio and Mac Pro are like well out into
01:18:12 ◼ ► Next year and so that really puts cold water on my idea that there's gonna be a Mac studio announcement at WWDC with the m4 in it
01:18:25 ◼ ► So they beat they need they need the m4 to be available if the m4 wasn't available. They wouldn't do this
01:18:32 ◼ ► That's why I think it also update the iMac because as soon as the m4 is available with a reasonable upgrade cycle
01:18:37 ◼ ► They're gonna like we got to get to your point get everything off of n3b any products. We sell within three bees in them
01:18:53 ◼ ► Within you know within the next calendar year, right and this being the first product is like well
01:19:03 ◼ ► Then it gives them more runway to let this I'm gonna say let's languish but not it's not gonna languish like again
01:19:07 ◼ ► The computing power is not the thing that is holding this back and this will be presumably the new design
01:19:12 ◼ ► With the new pencil and the new camera orientation and no holes in the bottom. Sorry Marco, although I
01:19:31 ◼ ► This is the new most expensive pencil and how can you tell a it'll be more expensive and be it has new features
01:19:37 ◼ ► And the rumored features are a squeeze function because yeah sure like I mean you can you could do also do a button Apple
01:19:48 ◼ ► Haptic feedback in the pencil of some kind maybe that's just in response to your squeeze
01:19:52 ◼ ► maybe it'll be like a rumble feature to make it feel like textured paper or something who knows but
01:19:57 ◼ ► The pencil continues to get increasingly fancy. I think the rumors are that it will still be flat sided
01:20:07 ◼ ► Maybe to fit in wherever they're gonna slap it on maybe it'll go on the short side this time as
01:20:10 ◼ ► More of a landscape, you know landscape oriented iPad type thing where the cameras on the top and the pencils on the side
01:20:17 ◼ ► You know, that's that's a reasonable and then the year one hope this year Marco is the rumors of a more quote
01:20:35 ◼ ► You know, I'll tell everybody with their poor worn out iPad keyboards that are made of whatever
01:20:40 ◼ ► Fabric or rubbery membrane or whatever if you make the thing out of aluminum and plastic just like the laptops
01:20:50 ◼ ► Bigger trackpad maybe a glass trackpad. It's made aluminum. It can be more structurally sturdy
01:20:56 ◼ ► They still have the problem of most of the weight being in the screen part sort of being the inverse of a laptop where laptops
01:21:03 ◼ ► The screen is light and the base is heavy and that works out for a you know, a simple rear hinge
01:21:07 ◼ ► They don't have that on the iPad. So they got to do some sort of cantilevering thing. But for people who do want a
01:21:13 ◼ ► More laptop like experience out of their iPad the rumors are that Apple is going to deliver that
01:21:27 ◼ ► Has always been a little finicky and a little bit like it's easy to accidentally trigger it. Excuse me. Excuse me
01:21:33 ◼ ► That is not fair. It is so frustratingly difficult to get right really. I've always found it like triggers accidentally
01:21:40 ◼ ► Well, yeah, it's either you're do well, that's the thing. You're either doing it when you don't want to or
01:21:49 ◼ ► So like I assume that that double tap gesture will be replaced by whatever form this like haptic squeeze
01:21:56 ◼ ► Possible button thing is and if so, that's great because that needs that needs to be rethought
01:22:02 ◼ ► I'm hoping to see that you think it'll replace it or be an addition to it. Oh, that's a good question
01:22:07 ◼ ► I hope it replaces it directly because I think that would be better. I mean you replaced it in the air pods
01:22:12 ◼ ► There's that precedent right there pods used to be tapping now their squeeze. Yes, but the air pods don't have haptic feedback
01:22:18 ◼ ► They play a click sound so like they give you feedback, but it's audio feedback. Not not like vibration feedback
01:22:27 ◼ ► You know if you look like there were rumors last fall about the iPhones getting basically like non moving buttons
01:22:36 ◼ ► That would that would provide haptic feedback so they would feel like buttons, but they wouldn't actually be moving
01:22:40 ◼ ► Maybe they are using whatever tech that was that didn't make it into last year's iPhones. Maybe that's what this is in the pencil
01:23:03 ◼ ► You know you had like the the haptic home screen, but or the home buttons on the iPhone 7 and forward and you know
01:23:12 ◼ ► The clicking trackpad like they when they actually attempt to make something look and feel and work like a button
01:23:31 ◼ ► How the heck it will attach and charge and where it will attach and charge to the to the iPad and battery life
01:23:39 ◼ ► Right, but now they're gonna put a motor in there like a little the little in whatever it is. They though taptic engine
01:23:47 ◼ ► It's it would probably be pretty tiny and you're not like you're not basically feeling it constantly like it would only be anyway
01:23:58 ◼ ► How does it charge and do they give it some kind of you know, nice button feel or button effect for that?
01:24:24 ◼ ► I think somebody was saying like wouldn't it be great if this also worked with future iPhones and
01:24:30 ◼ ► Yeah, that was small. That would be amazing it but yeah, it probably it would not be smaller to it to magnetically attached to an iPhone
01:24:39 ◼ ► Honestly, I would love something like that for iPhones, but the the problem also with that is that
01:24:44 ◼ ► If you've noticed recent iPads that are compatible with the pencil get really fingerprint you way more than your phone
01:24:52 ◼ ► And the reason why is because the phone's oleophobic coating apparently gets worn away if you would use it on the iPad for the pencil
01:25:02 ◼ ► They actually had to switch to a worse oleophobic coating on the glass and that's why I've had modern iPads get so so incredibly
01:25:11 ◼ ► Those are my wishes for the pencil. I would love for it to have some kind of physical attachment mechanism
01:25:16 ◼ ► It was not just magnets that actually would stay there, but I'm not super confident in that
01:25:26 ◼ ► Third-party opportunity. There's lots of cases with little loops and latches and pockets and things for you to stick your pencil in
01:25:32 ◼ ► That's that's the seems to be Apple solution to this problem is it attaches with a magnet if you don't jostle it too much if
01:25:38 ◼ ► You want to travel with it buy one of those cases where you can stick it in a little holster
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01:27:09 ◼ ► Charlie Sorrell writes years and years ago when Marco was still child free Casey told Marco that once he became a dad
01:27:14 ◼ ► He'd give up making fancy coffee. I think was Aeropress at the time. That was a while ago now, obviously what actually happened?
01:27:24 ◼ ► But damned if I remember having this conversation. Shocking that you don't remember something that happened years ago on the show. Exactly exactly
01:27:48 ◼ ► like you know that when you roast was a whole bunch of like smoke and stuff you have to deal with and
01:27:51 ◼ ► And the beach setup was just really not a good environment for that and what happened in in those years
01:28:00 ◼ ► Mail-order coffee was already really good by that point. I had these wonderful mail-order options
01:28:06 ◼ ► What also happened around that same time was my taste in coffee shifted towards more medium and light roasts
01:28:24 ◼ ► So my home roasting kind of fell off and I stopped doing it and I just switched mail order
01:28:39 ◼ ► I'm still living in a construction zone here if there's still like, you know paper on the floors
01:28:45 ◼ ► There's there's like coverings on the countertops. They're still doing like some painting and wall works
01:28:56 ◼ ► Or like the sink will have a drop cloth over it because they're working above it or something
01:29:01 ◼ ► So what I've been doing mostly is just going to the coffee shop in town or I've often just been doing
01:29:06 ◼ ► frozen coffee pods this company called comiteer that also they make sure they get frozen pods and
01:29:19 ◼ ► having these like frozen pods that you have to get shipped to you and you know that I'm you know,
01:29:28 ◼ ► coffee maker or an era press nearby to use if you just need to like make some coffee without
01:29:35 ◼ ► Pretty much any equipment except maybe a hot water kettle. It's a great way to do it and
01:29:42 ◼ ► The coffee that I get from comiteer is better than anything I've ever home roasted. It's really good
01:29:49 ◼ ► So anyway, so all that is to say I've completely stopped roasting my own beans, which I used to do regularly for years
01:30:00 ◼ ► because I just haven't had like a reliable kitchen set up a lot of the time for the last few months and
01:30:10 ◼ ► You know once things calm down here and I actually have a kitchen that is not full of dust that I can actually use reliably
01:30:17 ◼ ► I expect to get back into brewing my own coffee and get it and you know remaining good at that
01:30:30 ◼ ► Also comiteer kind of ruined me because it's really good too. It doesn't sound like any of his kid related though
01:30:37 ◼ ► No, well, not really. No because like I mean really, you know, Mike my kid just turned 12
01:30:45 ◼ ► Roasting my own coffee until he was about eight and brewing my own coffee until he was 11
01:30:53 ◼ ► I think the I think it's just like old person reality aging related. Yeah. Yeah busyness related and aging related like
01:31:04 ◼ ► And other options for that top for that taste became available that were that were really good
01:31:14 ◼ ► I hope you guys will cover the what to do or not to do at WWDC as I've been told that you've done in the
01:31:22 ◼ ► I don't feel like I can be of help at all because last time I was at WWDC was in San Jose
01:31:30 ◼ ► Yes, so so one thing to note Andy is that the WWDC experience today and for the last couple of years that it's been at
01:31:37 ◼ ► Apple Park is very different from what it was in the past where it was like at a conference center
01:31:46 ◼ ► All the sessions are virtual. So there's really no in-person component there at all. The only in-person stuff to do now is
01:31:53 ◼ ► There's like a big developer event that you were presumably invited to at Apple Park to watch the keynote
01:31:59 ◼ ► So what this is is you are sitting in a lawn like an Apple Park in front of those giant sliding doors for the cafeteria
01:32:13 ◼ ► And then you know you watch the video basically on a giant screen and then afterwards you like
01:32:26 ◼ ► Other stuff around Apple Park for that day and maybe the day after especially revolving around the Apple Visitor Center
01:32:37 ◼ ► It's basically a big Apple store and stuff. So and then there's a handful of other community events that happen
01:32:47 ◼ ► Smaller groups that are arranging things and certain developer groups and meetup kind of things happening
01:32:56 ◼ ► It's just it's just different the big thing to keep in mind when you're going there now, there is no
01:33:03 ◼ ► Conference Center, so, you know you're led into the event and you're you're there like, you know in Apple Park
01:33:11 ◼ ► Very well controlled by Apple people the whole time of like where you can go and what you're doing
01:33:17 ◼ ► You have the few the handful things they then you're escorted out and you can't get back in
01:33:24 ◼ ► Plan if you're gonna be there for like a few days try to plan stuff to do with the other
01:33:29 ◼ ► Groups and events that happen around that because you're just like kind of let out into suburban Cupertino is like, alright
01:33:36 ◼ ► Bye, that's it. You know, it's not like you're not in downtown San Jose anymore or down in San Francisco
01:33:44 ◼ ► It's just like Apple Park and in the visitor center and then a bunch of houses around you. So
01:33:51 ◼ ► The hotel situation is a little a little, you know boring or challenging the like, you know dinner and evening
01:33:59 ◼ ► Event situation is a little limited there. You're basically hanging out in the suburbs next to an office park that won't let you back in
01:34:05 ◼ ► So plan for that with like what you expect event wise if you can get into any of the other like side events that are
01:34:13 ◼ ► You know plan for that accordingly and and I wouldn't honestly I wouldn't recommend staying
01:34:19 ◼ ► Past, you know, like the the events on Monday. I would say you can usually safely leave on at least Wednesday
01:34:27 ◼ ► maybe even Tuesday, you know depending on whether you whether there's certain events you want to go to but
01:34:31 ◼ ► That's what to expect like it's a really fun presentation that day, but then you're kind of on your own so plan accordingly
01:34:38 ◼ ► Wade asks does it bother you that you have no privacy with public electric charging stations?
01:34:44 ◼ ► They know who you are and where you live because you're billing information what car you drive where you were when how far you drove?
01:34:50 ◼ ► Between charges etc. Is there any practical way to have an electric car not be tracked short of only ever charging it at home?
01:34:56 ◼ ► Do you know what the charger operators do with this information? Do they anonymize it? Do they sell it?
01:35:00 ◼ ► I mean I hear you but I mean this is the way the world is going and I don't think bad news about credit cards
01:35:13 ◼ ► Just I'm really struggling to get myself worked up about this, especially since credit cards exist
01:35:20 ◼ ► Which you know, the apples doing their best to try to issue but maybe Wade pays with cash at gas stations
01:35:31 ◼ ► More in the vein of things that are car specific because knowing where you are and what you're doing
01:35:36 ◼ ► if you use any kind of electronic form of payment, that's sufficient, but the car stuff is like
01:35:41 ◼ ► Knowing how you drive and so there are a couple stories. This one is from March of this year
01:35:48 ◼ ► Automakers sharing consumers driving behavior with insurance companies that you don't want I mean, I especially do not want that I can assure you
01:35:57 ◼ ► I mean like it's kind of the point of insurance like as you as you slice and dice the insured
01:36:02 ◼ ► Population into smaller and smaller groups based on the behavior insurance stops being insurance
01:36:08 ◼ ► So you have to be in a group with there has to be variability within a group if you just put all the high risk
01:36:26 ◼ ► It's insurance companies aren't gonna be that stupid but insurance companies do want to
01:36:30 ◼ ► Adjust the risk pools to their advantage based on knowing exactly how you drive and that was a controversy in March and then
01:36:38 ◼ ► About ten days later General Motors said that they're going to stop sharing their driving behavior with data brokers, right?
01:36:49 ◼ ► It's not knowing where you go based on paying for charging electric chargers. It is the telemetry
01:36:54 ◼ ► Gathered while you are driving and where that information goes and what control you have over that information
01:37:04 ◼ ► The battle of like trying to find an electric charging station where you can feed $20 bills into a slot
01:37:13 ◼ ► But yeah, like again everywhere you go if you pay for gas with the credit card or any kind of electronic form of payment
01:37:18 ◼ ► It's not really that much different in terms of knowing what you drive. Everybody knows what you drive. It's your vehicles registered
01:37:24 ◼ ► Like it's not this is all publicly available or at least information that's available to the people who want to know it
01:37:33 ◼ ► During yeah fight for your right to privacy while you're driving like you're the actual moment-to-moment information about your driving
01:37:41 ◼ ► Even what your trips are where you go how long it takes you to get from point A to point B all that information
01:37:49 ◼ ► You just want to have legally have some kind of control over it and hopefully we'll get some laws in that area
01:38:02 ◼ ► That people have been trying to do that for a while, but things move slowly around here
01:38:06 ◼ ► So fingers crossed and by the way, like, you know to the question of specifically like electric fast charging stations. There are
01:38:26 ◼ ► And so there are kind of there are options there for like, you know less data tracking that you could do
01:38:47 ◼ ► You can just go to hotels that have those 220 volt chargers and charge overnight every time like you could that is an option you have
01:38:57 ◼ ► But you know, there are other options and usually those 220 volt chargers are even less sophisticated
01:39:08 ◼ ► There's no authentication for that or it could be like a third-party one or a CCS based one
01:39:13 ◼ ► Like there's there's all sorts of them. But if you pay for that hotel with a credit card, they already know you there
01:39:17 ◼ ► So that's it. Yeah, I mean like there's so many, you know, if you have like electronic tolling like, you know
01:39:23 ◼ ► Like that'll tell everybody everything like so there's there's lots of ways you can be tracked very very very very easily for people who actually
01:39:29 ◼ ► Want to track you, but if you are looking to minimize it, that is something to consider for sure
01:39:37 ◼ ► 2024 and thank you to our members who support us directly. You can join ATP FM slash join our member only
01:39:47 ◼ ► Which is our member only kind of bonus segment bonus topic after the main show is gonna be about the limitless pendant
01:39:58 ◼ ► We're gonna be talking about that in ATP overtime this week join to listen at FM slash join
01:41:39 ◼ ► They I got I had the newest model the USBC ones and I don't know if that matters probably not but they were
01:41:50 ◼ ► It's a minor hardware update since the last time I used them which was last fall or last summer
01:41:57 ◼ ► There's you know, iOS 17 came out in the meantime. So there's been some software updates as well to the air pods
01:42:02 ◼ ► So whatever they have done if it's changed or it could just be the way this fear does audio, which is kind of
01:42:08 ◼ ► Advanced and custom and everything but whatever it is, they were flawless as concert earplugs
01:42:17 ◼ ► There was no like variation if I move my head side to side or like turn my head like there was last time
01:42:22 ◼ ► It was great. I actually took a picture which I will I will make the chapter art for this chapter
01:42:27 ◼ ► of how my watch was reducing the sound because I actually I you know, the watch measures it and tells you through the air pods and
01:42:40 ◼ ► 84 decibels and it was saying like the outside world at that time in the concert was like in the 90s like around
01:42:58 ◼ ► I didn't go into any of the accessibility stuff because that that alters things in ways that I don't quite want
01:43:12 ◼ ► Loud sound reduction and it was in transparency mode and everything else was left alone
01:43:22 ◼ ► Earlier today when I was just playing music at like medium to loud volume in my car just driving around windows closed
01:43:37 ◼ ► So like it's it didn't sound quiet and this isn't something I would recommend that you listen to like hours and hours a day
01:43:51 ◼ ► But if you just go to a few concerts a year and you want something to be able to enjoy them with some protection
01:43:57 ◼ ► This still continues to work fantastically. So I strongly can encourage people to try this
01:44:09 ◼ ► These are better than all of them in terms of sound quality clarity ease of use even comfort for me
01:44:14 ◼ ► they don't offer as much protection as like some of the really heavy-duty ones, but it's
01:44:30 ◼ ► I know before you establish that can we recap for those who may not be aware what the sphere is and what the kind of?
01:44:58 ◼ ► And they can show whatever video content they want on that screen. There's actually there's a good video. I'll put it in the show notes
01:45:19 ◼ ► It's like it's absurd like the tons of custom video case. It's actually very interesting
01:45:25 ◼ ► And so if you're interested in like the hardware of this arena, I definitely watch this video
01:45:33 ◼ ► And it shows like, you know, what kind of screens they have and it's basically just a whole bunch of tiny LEDs that
01:45:52 ◼ ► It is impossible to capture what this is like with you know a phone camera or whatever like
01:45:58 ◼ ► It's very much like when you hear people try to explain what it's like to watch immersive video in a vision Pro
01:46:04 ◼ ► And this is a theme I'll come back to when when you hear like what what it's like to be immersed in some in some kind
01:46:18 ◼ ► you can't really like take a picture or video of it and really get what it feels like to be there and
01:46:24 ◼ ► That's exactly what it's like seeing a concert in the sphere. Like it's it's such an amazing thing the scale of it is so
01:46:37 ◼ ► What this means first of all is that it is incredibly immersive in the sense that it dominates your entire field of view
01:46:50 ◼ ► Straight like you can look straight up and you're still looking at video content and even you can look back
01:46:55 ◼ ► Somebody if you're if you're not like in the very back of the place you can even look back
01:47:02 ◼ ► but you know, that's that's kind of the funny thing is like they have this like world-class sound system in there and it's almost like
01:47:08 ◼ ► incidental to the reason why most people are gonna be there which is the video streams, but it is
01:47:18 ◼ ► So one thing that surprised me first of all is that this the you know, the screen of the you know
01:47:30 ◼ ► Did not expect that like I was thinking a screen that big they're gonna be doing a lot of like
01:47:35 ◼ ► projection and scaling and I figured it would be kind of dim and I did not expect it to be very high resolution and
01:47:46 ◼ ► Extremely bright to the point where like, you know most concerts you in the audience are basically sitting in the dark
01:47:53 ◼ ► And you know the bands lit up and occasionally maybe some light will like shine into the crowd or something
01:48:11 ◼ ► Like you're in the living room. It's so that first of all, like you're you're bathed in light because it's it's just that bright
01:48:20 ◼ ► so sharp that whatever they want the content to look like they can make it look like that there like
01:48:37 ◼ ► It's everything the vision Pro tries to create and and kind of can't with current technology and there's I mean
01:48:43 ◼ ► This is a you know concert arena that cost two billion dollars to build so it's kind of an unfair comparison
01:49:00 ◼ ► they're so far from you that your eyes are effectively at like infinite focus at that point and so
01:49:05 ◼ ► You can create 3d ish effects and it it doesn't look like you're looking at a flat screen
01:49:11 ◼ ► It can look like you are in a 3d environment pretty well pretty convincingly just because it's so far away
01:49:17 ◼ ► You don't perceive like the the lack of you know parallax or whatever a few remarks on the audio
01:49:37 ◼ ► They showed several times that didn't actually go into they tried to I think they were trying to show that different sections of the audience
01:49:44 ◼ ► What yeah that that is something that that the sphere has promoted as like as an ability they have there
01:49:55 ◼ ► There were like so at certain times they they played with and I think they used it very sparingly for the best
01:50:01 ◼ ► but at certain times they clearly were playing with panning effects where it would seem like
01:50:05 ◼ ► one of the instruments was all of a sudden coming from like the far left side of the room and then moved across to the
01:50:11 ◼ ► Right side of the room and then and then went back but I think you could tell that they were playing around and they did
01:50:15 ◼ ► They did it like I went to two nights and I think I heard that a total of maybe three or four times across the two
01:50:32 ◼ ► Partially transmitted through the seat speakers like that. I guess there's speakers along the seats somehow somewhere
01:50:38 ◼ ► I didn't see them, but maybe they're like, you know in the floor or whatever, but when you sit down
01:50:45 ◼ ► But like, you know you get tired and eventually like you want it might want to sit down for a couple of songs
01:51:03 ◼ ► Even if the people in front of you are standing and you want to sit for a minute as an as an old person
01:51:07 ◼ ► This is disappointing to me that people are standing in the sphere. The whole point is they have these amazing haptic seats and everything
01:51:22 ◼ ► Experience they have the world's most high-tech chairs. Some of the sound is in the chair sit in the chairs
01:51:30 ◼ ► You need to wait till people I get that there needs to be a cultural shift and the beginning of the show
01:51:43 ◼ ► Yeah, well you when you run your own concert venue you can put that sign up and see how it goes
01:51:49 ◼ ► You can make it happen. They have a lot of control cultural control over their audience
01:51:57 ◼ ► So sitting down was actually a really nice experience because you would feel much more of the bass sitting down
01:52:09 ◼ ► Like if you just get like if you want to take a break or something like normally most concerts you sit down
01:52:18 ◼ ► In this case like that it was much better than that. So that's great. They also they have
01:52:22 ◼ ► The the haptic seating is not just like a speaker that is just playing normal volume each of the two concerts
01:52:33 ◼ ► where it almost seemed like there was an earthquake like that the entire balcony seemed to shake and
01:52:39 ◼ ► Everyone kind of looked around like that. Somebody just like drop a whale on this balcony or something like it
01:52:45 ◼ ► Huge like shaking vibration and I looked it up afterwards and I learned like that's actually that's also a feature of their haptic seats
01:53:02 ◼ ► Situation because there's all these like physical features of it and physical realities of being in this big video dome
01:53:26 ◼ ► But second of all a few rows down the people behind me pointed out was seated train estas EO's dad
01:53:47 ◼ ► I ran into Peter on Spock a member of goose. Did you introduce yourself or what like to say? Hi or whatever very quickly
01:53:57 ◼ ► Everybody was trying to take pictures with them. And so I just breeze through pretty quickly
01:54:03 ◼ ► So anyway, so yeah, I figure if if Trey's dad and a member of goose were seated in this section
01:54:11 ◼ ► But back to back to the show. So obviously as a fish fan they were the music was fantastic. They were very well-rehearsed
01:54:25 ◼ ► like I believe I speak to last week like it might be kind of like iTunes visualizer or something and
01:54:30 ◼ ► There were certain like every song they had a different thing going on with the screens
01:54:41 ◼ ► composited live video effects of the band playing so they had cameras on the band like on each member of the band and they would like
01:54:54 ◼ ► It's processing their live video and then throw it up on the screens like in a big grid like, you know
01:54:59 ◼ ► Brady Bunch style or like a like some kind of like, you know video like color shifting and shadow playing and edge finding like, you know
01:55:19 ◼ ► Tweaked live and there have been a few articles about this where they apparently the Virgin article that was they actually used
01:55:29 ◼ ► Animations that what that the director could control based on what the band was doing because that's the thing like with fish
01:55:36 ◼ ► Like they they're a jam band like, you know when you too was in this venue you too had they composed like a complete show
01:55:43 ◼ ► with you know predefined like at this point we're gonna play this song and that we're gonna have this visual and it's gonna
01:56:04 ◼ ► to be able to go on for any amount of time and to be able to be tweaked and like kind of manually
01:56:13 ◼ ► so that was just like just technically speaking like that's a pretty impressive accomplishment when you're dealing with like live manipulation of
01:57:04 ◼ ► Specifically because I know we're running long, but they one of their songs pillow jets. It's a recent song
01:57:16 ◼ ► And so when that song started it they they had like this like forest that you're like slowly moving through almost like an Apple TV
01:57:23 ◼ ► landscape screensaver you're like slowly moving forward in this in this like CGI forest and that song comes on and a bunch of fans kind of
01:57:31 ◼ ► I guess this is a good time to go to the bathroom the whole row in front of me got up and left
01:57:40 ◼ ► It was you're going through this forest and then the colors start shifting on the trees
01:57:51 ◼ ► And then like over the course of this like ten minute long song the trees slowly start becoming
01:57:59 ◼ ► Exploding out of each of the leaves of the trees and I'm like and this is a good time for me to clarify
01:58:07 ◼ ► I was about to ask I was trying to figure out how to interrupt and ask that question delicately
01:58:22 ◼ ► The security guys like, you know, what's in your pocket and I take out a bag of fishermen's friends
01:58:26 ◼ ► I'm probably the only person here who brings in a bag of cough drops to a fish concert that are actually just cough drops
01:58:41 ◼ ► Mushroom trip color explosion is happening on the streets and I felt high like it was that immersive
01:58:53 ◼ ► and and it's just it shows like the the incredible immersion and and of course the I mean
01:58:59 ◼ ► Some of this is just I say a large part of this is that fish themselves and their visual staff
01:59:04 ◼ ► Did a really good job with it. Like this is this is a canvas bands can use it in different ways
01:59:12 ◼ ► Fish does a really good job with this stuff and this was no exception. They did an amazing job
01:59:16 ◼ ► And and yeah, the pillow jets tree firework explosion mushroom trip was definitely my favorite
01:59:22 ◼ ► Like and I had the clear view because everyone in front of me got up and left and like they came back afterwards and I was
01:59:34 ◼ ► It was great and it really like it is so much elevated above a regular concert experience
01:59:54 ◼ ► Like this is very different from the experience of seeing a band in most venues because in most venues you are looking at the band
02:00:00 ◼ ► You are watching them play and maybe looking a little bit the lights with this the band could have not even been there
02:00:10 ◼ ► Sky above them so you're not really looking down at the band very much at all. Oh, that's wild
02:00:16 ◼ ► You know, that's gonna that's gonna affect obviously like what kind of act you'd want to see in a place like this
02:00:25 ◼ ► Only the biggest acts will be able to afford to produce a show like this with all these visuals and everything like that
02:00:35 ◼ ► Strongly encourage you all out there if you ever get a chance to see anything at the sphere
02:00:46 ◼ ► There's a band playing there and you can get reasonable tickets that are somewhat centrally located in the venue
02:00:56 ◼ ► It is quite an experience now if you can get a band you love that's of course way better
02:01:10 ◼ ► Whatever is playing that you can get into next time you find a way to get to Vegas or if you happen to be there
02:01:23 ◼ ► Apple recorded the whole thing and it'll be released on vision Pro soon, right? Oh, can you imagine?
02:01:41 ◼ ► There could be like, you know a VR headset version of this like I would love they just like put
02:01:47 ◼ ► apples like Alicia Keys cameras like put those in the balcony that I was sitting in and
02:01:53 ◼ ► Just sell me a live stream of a fixed camera from that perspective that I can just you know
02:02:01 ◼ ► No, what you want is the direct feed of that 16k by 16k video mapped onto a sphere inside vision Pro
02:02:07 ◼ ► You don't need to send it through the analog hole and then get it back in through cameras. No go direct
02:02:13 ◼ ► Just get the video. But here's the thing. So I thought about that like obviously obviously you're right
02:02:17 ◼ ► That would be an option but like there was there was one song they played a song called ghost
02:02:27 ◼ ► They looked like giant robots made of high-voltage power line towers like those giant towers a hold the high-voltage power lines
02:02:37 ◼ ► and just against just flat black like straight black backdrop and these giant robots that are standing above you made of power lines and
02:02:45 ◼ ► Because again like because the screens are so far from you. You can't tell that these are being rendered right up, you know
02:03:00 ◼ ► You know power line robots that were angry and then at one point with the one the one that was directly above you
02:03:18 ◼ ► Part of the experience of being a place like this is the people around you you're experiencing this together
02:03:48 ◼ ► it would feel very lonely because it's like oh, I'm in the middle of this concert arena and
02:03:58 ◼ ► Feeling what everyone else was feeling and and capturing like what makes everyone else excited
02:04:14 ◼ ► Like from a from a perspective of a good seat in the audience. Why wouldn't you just want to be in it with?
02:04:40 ◼ ► Actual humans and probably not as high fidelity right now as a recording of actual humans
02:04:45 ◼ ► But I feel like the goal is hey instead of me just putting on this thing and me being alone in this giant sphere
02:04:50 ◼ ► It's me and the 5,000 other people who are all doing it all instants together in this one thing and I can hear them
02:05:02 ◼ ► Attainable with not so distant technology. It would be tempting to make it too technically perfect
02:05:09 ◼ ► by doing things like just sending you the video stream and mapping it in 3d and everything and
02:05:13 ◼ ► Under value of the human element and the value of the human element. I think that would be a mistake
02:05:23 ◼ ► Anything that's going to succeed and and give you anything close to the experience you want needs that it needs the human element
02:05:40 ◼ ► But it would have to it have to capture the people to even like even like honestly live sporting events, too
02:05:48 ◼ ► so I guess you capture them regardless but like when you're at a live sporting event a huge part of the fun of being there is
02:05:57 ◼ ► Reacting with them and feeling and hearing their reactions to everything. That's part of the fun of being in a live event
02:06:12 ◼ ► Like that's I know that we're not there yet. But that's the whole idea is that the humans are providing that content
02:06:24 ◼ ► like that's I feel like that's where it the experience that is sold by a lot of the VR stuff and you know it with the
02:06:37 ◼ ► but it is actually there is a there's a tiny glimmer of that human element that you're talking about even in the very primitive even
02:07:03 ◼ ► so like obviously not every context that's an option like that isn't always a possibility but
02:07:07 ◼ ► When that is a possibility like if you're trying to do some kind of live event as content
02:07:18 ◼ ► Like you you wouldn't see the camera so low that when the people in front of you stand up they block
02:07:23 ◼ ► I was gonna say like the cut this type of thing is ideal for things like the vision probe because you
02:07:29 ◼ ► Yeah, like you don't you don't you don't get up and go to the camera doesn't get up and go to the bathroom
02:07:33 ◼ ► So you don't have any of the problems of like motion sickness and changing perspective and cutting for you could do that
02:07:39 ◼ ► But they they shouldn't they should just even more so than sporting events because in a concert venue like this
02:07:48 ◼ ► The field is so big that sometimes you do want like a close-up on the goal or you know a different perspectives
02:07:56 ◼ ► So you can just pick that ideal seat plant the camera or virtual camera there and just keep there the whole time
02:08:27 ◼ ► Really think that part of what makes that so fun is that shared group experience is knowing even even for a band like fish
02:08:39 ◼ ► It's still amazing knowing that you're seeing art being created live right in front of your eyes and to a degree
02:08:47 ◼ ► The people the thousands of the hundreds of the thousands of tens of thousands of people that are next to you
02:08:52 ◼ ► are the only ones that will ever really and truly get the full version of that experience and even a
02:09:10 ◼ ► I think it would be amazing to be able to go on tour with Dave Matthews Bandar fish or who have you?
02:09:19 ◼ ► It will never replace the real deal, you know and and there's room in the world for both of these things
02:09:32 ◼ ► I wonder what's more expensive flying to Las Vegas and seeing a real sphere show or buying an evolution problem
02:09:42 ◼ ► like the VR version of this is obviously that we're projecting into a future where it is much less expensive to
02:09:47 ◼ ► Do this from your home and far more people can do it then because I think I don't know how many Spears they're planning on making
02:09:53 ◼ ► Their their plans for a bunch of other ones in other places, but like if people could do this from their own home
02:09:58 ◼ ► It's like they're seeing TV in a movie theater or seeing live sports for seeing sports on TV
02:10:05 ◼ ► But it is way more accessible to way more people and it's way less expensive and way more convenient
02:10:10 ◼ ► And it does actually have some advantages overseeing sports live in terms of perspective changes and in sin replay and stuff
02:10:23 ◼ ► Be obsolete anytime soon because big impressive screens are always big and impressive by the way
02:10:28 ◼ ► This is why people are so excited about micro LED TVs because this is just a big micro LED TV
02:10:34 ◼ ► But yeah, the problem micro LED TVs is to make make the LEDs small enough and close enough together
02:10:49 ◼ ► 77 inches like people were excited that it was so small which is like the opposite of what everyone's been thinking about
02:10:57 ◼ ► It's because they want this tech to be get to the point where they can jam all those little tiny lights
02:11:06 ◼ ► Unfortunately, they still cost tens of thousands of dollars. But yeah this they don't have a space problem
02:11:14 ◼ ► And they look really good as long as you're far enough away from them a couple of quick thoughts
02:11:19 ◼ ► First of all, if you haven't seen Drew Carey's review of his experience at the the sphere
02:11:32 ◼ ► It is not really kid-friendly, but it is quite funny. Let's just say he enjoyed his experience
02:11:47 ◼ ► I don't I don't have the faintest memory who it was and I apologize but um, there's a vision Pro app called
02:12:00 ◼ ► Ostensibly a like music kind of sort of concert app where you can download these immersive
02:12:11 ◼ ► And you can watch them and they have Megan stallion t-pain event sevenfold and there's a free one
02:12:22 ◼ ► Let me tell you I have an experience with getting real old that maybe we can talk about another time
02:12:26 ◼ ► But I feel older and older every passing day. But anyways, I mean that is how time works
02:12:49 ◼ ► Nevertheless it is worth checking out and downloading the free one just to see what sorts of things are possible
02:13:02 ◼ ► but it is funny because the Sarah Larson one she does like a song on the free version and
02:13:09 ◼ ► and gets like right up to the camera way closer than I saw Alicia Keys get and it was like
02:13:16 ◼ ► Kind of uncomfortable and off-putting like it was felt like she was looking deep into your eyes and then like a not comfortable way
02:13:23 ◼ ► I don't know. Maybe I'm maybe I'm just weird and old but that's kind of how I felt with the with the Highline video
02:13:29 ◼ ► like when it starts out and that you're extremely close to the woman's face and you're like
02:13:38 ◼ ► She doesn't know me. I feel like I should not be standing this closer. The difference though. Is that in in this case?
02:13:56 ◼ ► But anyway, it is it is worth checking out despite all that just to see what's possible. So you should you should take a look
02:14:08 ◼ ► Like what was what they had done like the nights before I was there because I missed the first two nights
02:14:12 ◼ ► Okay, I kind of regret honestly not going to all four but I had no way to know they would be this good but
02:14:19 ◼ ► but anyway, so I looked up some stuff I hadn't seen and I also looked up some videos of
02:14:38 ◼ ► It is really like videos cannot captures and this again. This is what everyone says about VR experiences too because a
02:14:50 ◼ ► 360-degree or 180 degree in front of you kind of experience like it is way better to experience it in person or
02:14:58 ◼ ► For things that don't exist in person in 3d like that's that is way better. So this is a huge opportunity
02:15:32 ◼ ► And you get the communal experiences if anything this shows like VR has promise if these deals can be made
02:16:08 ◼ ► I mean fish plays there a lot but like they can't make a space vortex above them when they do
02:16:16 ◼ ► Could happen if it was ever gonna happen. It would happen above a fish concert. That's for sure