ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I have rewired my entire desk and I'm so happy.

00:00:05 ◼   ► - Oh no.

00:00:06 ◼   ► - It took, this has been maybe two weeks in the making

00:00:09 ◼   ► because, and we've talked about this before,

00:00:11 ◼   ► so I'll be quick, but listeners, if you missed it

00:00:14 ◼   ► the last time we talked about this,

00:00:15 ◼   ► the secret to clean, nice wiring is to get the shortest

00:00:20 ◼   ► wires you can that will fit the purpose.

00:00:24 ◼   ► 'Cause like, what so much wire clutter is,

00:00:26 ◼   ► is basically you have excess wire that you have to either

00:00:29 ◼   ► bundle up and tie with a cable tie or whatever.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Like, you gotta like bunch up excess wire.

00:00:32 ◼   ► So, the good thing is, these days, so many products

00:00:36 ◼   ► have standard connectors, whether it's like the power plug

00:00:39 ◼   ► with those standard like IEC things, or obviously USB-C

00:00:43 ◼   ► and various USBs, like, you can just go on Amazon

00:00:46 ◼   ► and buy short versions of all of those things

00:00:49 ◼   ► for almost no money.

00:00:50 ◼   ► So, measure how long you need a cable to be

00:00:54 ◼   ► and then go to Amazon and put it in your cart.

00:00:56 ◼   ► The shortest length that will be a little bit longer

00:00:58 ◼   ► than how long it needs to be, just to allow like

00:01:00 ◼   ► bending radius and stuff.

00:01:01 ◼   ► That makes everything so much easier.

00:01:04 ◼   ► So, now I have a very nice, clean layout.

00:01:07 ◼   ► I did have to, also as part of this project,

00:01:09 ◼   ► I did have to add some openings to my desk.

00:01:12 ◼   ► I guess some might call them holes.

00:01:14 ◼   ► - Oh my.

00:01:15 ◼   ► - But it turns out, look, people out there,

00:01:18 ◼   ► if you are not that handy, like me, I'm not handy,

00:01:21 ◼   ► I'm not a woodworker, my desk, I really like my desk

00:01:25 ◼   ► and want it to remain looking nice.

00:01:28 ◼   ► But, you know those like, those circular covers

00:01:32 ◼   ► with little pass-throughs for wires that many desks have,

00:01:35 ◼   ► like two of, kind of like small cup holders?

00:01:38 ◼   ► Those are called grommets.

00:01:39 ◼   ► And you can go on Amazon, you can buy desk grommets

00:01:42 ◼   ► for nothing.

00:01:44 ◼   ► You can also, many people, like me, are handy enough

00:01:47 ◼   ► to operate a drill, but not to actually do woodworking.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Well, let me introduce you to the hole saw.

00:01:54 ◼   ► The hole saw is a drill attachment that just

00:01:57 ◼   ► creates round holes in things.

00:02:00 ◼   ► And it's super easy to use, it's just like drilling.

00:02:03 ◼   ► Even people like me can use a hole saw to add grommets

00:02:08 ◼   ► into desks, shelves, other wooden items in your house

00:02:12 ◼   ► or office to have nice wire pass-throughs.

00:02:16 ◼   ► And so the combination of adding holes

00:02:19 ◼   ► and buying short cables has finally led me

00:02:21 ◼   ► to a wonderful desk wiring experience.

00:02:24 ◼   ► And so I'm talking to you now through all new wires

00:02:28 ◼   ► and holes, and hopefully I wired everything correctly

00:02:31 ◼   ► and we won't have me turning into Casey

00:02:33 ◼   ► from last week's bootleg.

00:02:35 ◼   ► - Let's hope not.

00:02:36 ◼   ► - Tune in next week when Marco discovers the C-clamp.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Hole saws, amazing.

00:02:41 ◼   ► - All right, let's do some follow-up.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Just a little bit, since this is an event episode.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Amanda writes in, "I've taken a stab at calculating

00:02:52 ◼   ► "the inflation-adjusted market price for the RAM

00:02:54 ◼   ► "in the starter model of Mac laptop between 1999 and 2024,

00:02:57 ◼   ► "though finding good data sources is difficult."

00:03:00 ◼   ► There's a chart, we will put a link to this toot

00:03:03 ◼   ► in the show notes, which has the chart,

00:03:05 ◼   ► or I shouldn't say chart, it's a graph really.

00:03:07 ◼   ► And hopefully Marco will make this the chapter art

00:03:10 ◼   ► when he edits it.

00:03:11 ◼   ► But John, can you take us through what this indicates?

00:03:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this was in response to those charts

00:03:16 ◼   ► that we had from several past shows.

00:03:19 ◼   ► David Schaub made a bunch of them showing

00:03:21 ◼   ► how much RAM comes in the base model of various Macs

00:03:24 ◼   ► and how the growth has sort of plateaued

00:03:26 ◼   ► and we've been stuck in eight gigs forever.

00:03:28 ◼   ► So Amanda was interested in what is the market price

00:03:31 ◼   ► if you were to buy that much RAM on the market,

00:03:34 ◼   ► how much would it cost?

00:03:35 ◼   ► And the RAM chart obviously increases slowly over time

00:03:39 ◼   ► before it kind of plateaus,

00:03:41 ◼   ► but the price chart fluctuates all over the place.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Lots of big swings, 'cause RAM is a commodity

00:03:46 ◼   ► and the price has fluctuated,

00:03:47 ◼   ► depending if they manufactured too much

00:03:49 ◼   ► and they need to get rid of it or there's not enough,

00:03:51 ◼   ► and there's demand out, strip supply.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Anyway, it bounces all over the place,

00:03:57 ◼   ► but given that it's over like a 20 something year span,

00:04:00 ◼   ► you can see the trend line pretty clearly.

00:04:02 ◼   ► And the trend line, Apple, is down.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Not just like the cost of one megabyte of RAM

00:04:09 ◼   ► has gotten cheaper,

00:04:10 ◼   ► this is I believe the cost of buying the amount of RAM

00:04:14 ◼   ► that's in the base model Mac.

00:04:17 ◼   ► So the amount of RAM is going up.

00:04:19 ◼   ► So it's not just like price per megabyte, I believe,

00:04:22 ◼   ► this is just the total price.

00:04:23 ◼   ► And the total price that, the market price,

00:04:27 ◼   ► if you were to buy this RAM on the open market,

00:04:29 ◼   ► has been going down despite the fact

00:04:31 ◼   ► that the amount has been going up,

00:04:32 ◼   ► which is what we all imagine to be the case,

00:04:34 ◼   ► because we all had computers when we were children

00:04:37 ◼   ► that had very small amounts of RAM,

00:04:39 ◼   ► and now our computers have much, much more.

00:04:41 ◼   ► RAM gets cheaper over time.

00:04:43 ◼   ► That's something we forget sometimes as Apple customers,

00:04:45 ◼   ► because it doesn't happen for us.

00:04:48 ◼   ► But I like this chart because, A, it does show

00:04:49 ◼   ► the fluctuations, 'cause that's something that people,

00:04:51 ◼   ► feedback people gave.

00:04:52 ◼   ► It's like, okay, well that, the RAM chart,

00:04:55 ◼   ► getting more RAM is Mac, isn't that easy?

00:04:57 ◼   ► Prices fluctuate, Apple has to time their purchases

00:04:59 ◼   ► and do all this clever stuff.

00:05:01 ◼   ► Or it was like, okay, that's all well and good.

00:05:02 ◼   ► But still, the trend line is down.

00:05:05 ◼   ► And it's, you know, we should have more RAM for less money.

00:05:09 ◼   ► More on that later.

00:05:10 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:05:12 ◼   ► All right, we have more feedback somehow

00:05:15 ◼   ► on HomeKit Light Controls UI.

00:05:17 ◼   ► Max Levin writes, "The versions of the Home app

00:05:20 ◼   ► on Mac OS, iOS, and watchOS all feature a card interface

00:05:23 ◼   ► for controlling devices, and the card contains two buttons,

00:05:26 ◼   ► the body or background, which is all a tappable region,

00:05:30 ◼   ► and a circular button in the corner of that card.

00:05:32 ◼   ► One takes you to the device settings,

00:05:34 ◼   ► and the other toggles the device state.

00:05:36 ◼   ► It's just that which does which is flipped

00:05:38 ◼   ► between watchOS and Mac OS and iOS."

00:05:40 ◼   ► - Yay, yep. - So, well done.

00:05:42 ◼   ► Yeah, so watchOS, the toggle button,

00:05:46 ◼   ► or the humongous card is a toggle,

00:05:49 ◼   ► and then there's an ellipsis in the corner

00:05:51 ◼   ► to get to settings, if you will.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Then on Mac OS and iOS, instead of an ellipsis,

00:05:58 ◼   ► you have like an indicator of what the device is,

00:06:01 ◼   ► like a light bulb, if you will, in the corner.

00:06:03 ◼   ► That's how you toggle.

00:06:04 ◼   ► And the rest of the card is how you get to settings.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Cool.

00:06:07 ◼   ► - Don't tap the wrong thing.

00:06:08 ◼   ► - So many places I could go from here.

00:06:10 ◼   ► All right, so let's talk about the Vega Sphere.

00:06:13 ◼   ► The Holoplot Speakers are the speakers

00:06:16 ◼   ► that are used in the Vega Sphere,

00:06:18 ◼   ► and somebody linked us to a video which talks about this.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And I did watch this video.

00:06:22 ◼   ► I was not that impressed by the demonstration,

00:06:25 ◼   ► even with headphones on, but it's a hard thing

00:06:26 ◼   ► to really get into video form.

00:06:29 ◼   ► But what was cool, which, John, you pulled out

00:06:31 ◼   ► and noted here, each module, each speaker module,

00:06:36 ◼   ► has somewhere between 80 and 96 speakers,

00:06:38 ◼   ► costs between 36 and $38,000, and weighs 220 pounds.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Holy dangimoles.

00:06:45 ◼   ► - Each module is like a really heavy suitcase, kind of.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Like, that's the size range that it is.

00:06:50 ◼   ► But if you look at it, like, you know,

00:06:52 ◼   ► 96 speaker drivers, or 80 in the one that has subwoofers,

00:06:55 ◼   ► so many speakers just spread, you know,

00:06:57 ◼   ► nested as close as they could possibly be,

00:06:59 ◼   ► however they can get room to them.

00:07:00 ◼   ► And they're all essentially computer controlled,

00:07:02 ◼   ► and the computer control interface is like inside that box.

00:07:06 ◼   ► So, you know, one of those boxes costs, you know,

00:07:09 ◼   ► 36 to $38,000, and I can't imagine how many

00:07:11 ◼   ► of those boxes they have in the sphere,

00:07:14 ◼   ► so that's why the thing costs $2 billion.

00:07:16 ◼   ► But it's really cool, it's like the idea of having

00:07:18 ◼   ► lots of small, relatively inexpensive speakers,

00:07:21 ◼   ► like the speaker drivers, each individual one

00:07:23 ◼   ► is inexpensive, but you got 96 of them,

00:07:25 ◼   ► and then having computers control them

00:07:27 ◼   ► to do the beam forming and everything

00:07:30 ◼   ► to be able to target different sounds

00:07:31 ◼   ► at different parts of the audience,

00:07:32 ◼   ► or just to make it so that every seat sounds good,

00:07:36 ◼   ► as opposed to, they compare it in the video

00:07:38 ◼   ► to the more traditional thing where you do the,

00:07:41 ◼   ► I wish I had a YouTube link to this,

00:07:43 ◼   ► but the recent trend that if you go to live music

00:07:45 ◼   ► you've seen is to have long vertical tower,

00:07:49 ◼   ► kind of gently curving towers of speakers.

00:07:51 ◼   ► That was not the case, like if you look

00:07:52 ◼   ► at a '70s rock concert, you didn't see those,

00:07:55 ◼   ► but we've learned since the '70s that you get better sound

00:07:58 ◼   ► across a larger area in the audience

00:08:00 ◼   ► if you do those long vertical towers,

00:08:01 ◼   ► but those are fixed, like they don't adjust

00:08:04 ◼   ► or do beam forming or whatever, they're just speakers,

00:08:06 ◼   ► they're carefully arranged in one position,

00:08:09 ◼   ► and they try to make it sound as good as they can

00:08:11 ◼   ► and as many places as they can, but it's kind of,

00:08:14 ◼   ► if you were to look at the field of sound

00:08:15 ◼   ► that those produce, it is uneven,

00:08:17 ◼   ► whereas these things are trying to give

00:08:18 ◼   ► every individual seat sort of the same experience

00:08:21 ◼   ► by using constructive and destructive interference

00:08:24 ◼   ► and timing and all sorts of other things

00:08:25 ◼   ► with what must be hundreds of speakers,

00:08:28 ◼   ► thousands of speakers, I think they have a number,

00:08:30 ◼   ► how many speakers are actually in this sphere,

00:08:31 ◼   ► it's a huge number, and through the magic of computers

00:08:34 ◼   ► they try to make it sound good.

00:08:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:37 ◼   ► And this is also not an easy problem to solve

00:08:41 ◼   ► because you think about the acoustics of that space,

00:08:45 ◼   ► trying to make a dome sound good for every seat,

00:08:50 ◼   ► even setting aside just the cool dynamic stuff,

00:08:54 ◼   ► we're gonna send English to this section

00:08:56 ◼   ► and Spanish to this section or whatever,

00:08:57 ◼   ► even setting that stuff aside,

00:08:59 ◼   ► just making it sound good for every seat in there,

00:09:02 ◼   ► that is a massive acoustic challenge,

00:09:05 ◼   ► and to make it sound good without those giant

00:09:08 ◼   ► tower speaker arrays being visible

00:09:10 ◼   ► because they don't wanna block the view of the screen,

00:09:12 ◼   ► so all the speakers have to be behind the screen.

00:09:16 ◼   ► There's a lot of just challenging physical situations there

00:09:21 ◼   ► to try to make that both sound at all good,

00:09:24 ◼   ► but then to make it sound good for everybody,

00:09:27 ◼   ► and I gotta tell you, it sounds really good,

00:09:31 ◼   ► most concerts, I mean granted,

00:09:33 ◼   ► I'm listening through AirPods as ear plugs,

00:09:36 ◼   ► so it's being modified, but most concerts,

00:09:39 ◼   ► despite ostensibly being about the music,

00:09:42 ◼   ► the sound is actually not that good,

00:09:45 ◼   ► 'cause it's just, again, it's a giant acoustic challenge

00:09:48 ◼   ► to make that sound good in any kind of,

00:09:50 ◼   ► especially indoor environments,

00:09:52 ◼   ► but they did a really good job with making it sound good

00:09:55 ◼   ► in what is probably a very, very difficult situation

00:09:59 ◼   ► to be in.

00:10:01 ◼   ► - Someone in the chat room found the YouTube video

00:10:03 ◼   ► I was thinking of, it's from Wired,

00:10:04 ◼   ► why music festivals sound better than ever,

00:10:07 ◼   ► and that's talking about the big vertical towers

00:10:09 ◼   ► of speakers, those are a big advance over the old way,

00:10:12 ◼   ► where I guess they just sort of put the speakers

00:10:13 ◼   ► on the stage in little stacks or whatever,

00:10:15 ◼   ► they figured out this arrangement produces

00:10:18 ◼   ► the fewest terrible dead spots or places in the audience

00:10:21 ◼   ► that sound terrible as compared to the old arrangements,

00:10:23 ◼   ► but the computer controlled one is,

00:10:25 ◼   ► we're gonna make sure there are essentially no spots

00:10:28 ◼   ► where the sound is totally off or totally bad,

00:10:30 ◼   ► or there's no bass or way too much bass,

00:10:31 ◼   ► or you hear delayed or echoed or whatever,

00:10:34 ◼   ► that's what the computers are trying to do.

00:10:36 ◼   ► - When I was in high school and had more free time

00:10:39 ◼   ► to go to concerts, I remember vividly,

00:10:42 ◼   ► you know, I went to high school in Connecticut

00:10:43 ◼   ► and we used to go to what was at the time

00:10:45 ◼   ► called the Meadows Music Theater in Hartford

00:10:47 ◼   ► or outside Hartford, and it was one of those theaters

00:10:49 ◼   ► where there's like an amphitheater section

00:10:51 ◼   ► and then a lawn behind it.

00:10:52 ◼   ► Even though I fully and completely understood

00:10:55 ◼   ► the science behind it, I always found it both funny

00:10:57 ◼   ► and kind of mildly annoying that I would be looking

00:11:00 ◼   ► at the screens, both behind the stage

00:11:03 ◼   ► and at the edge of the pavilion, if I was on the lawn,

00:11:06 ◼   ► and I'd be looking at the screens

00:11:07 ◼   ► and I would see a snare hit,

00:11:11 ◼   ► but by the time the sound made it to where I was,

00:11:14 ◼   ► the drummer had moved on like one or two notes past

00:11:18 ◼   ► what I was hearing, so I would see the future, if you will.

00:11:22 ◼   ► It was a very weird bit of time travel,

00:11:24 ◼   ► and admittedly, I might have had a contact high

00:11:27 ◼   ► from everyone around me at a Dave Matthews concert,

00:11:28 ◼   ► but I had not partaken myself, so sound and light,

00:11:32 ◼   ► it's weird, it works in mysterious ways.

00:11:34 ◼   ► - The only way they can fix that is you,

00:11:35 ◼   ► I'd have gotta watch the whole thing in Vision Pro

00:11:37 ◼   ► 'cause then they can sync up the visuals and the audio

00:11:40 ◼   ► by delaying the visuals, essentially.

00:11:42 ◼   ► - That remains a product in Apple's lineup.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Speaking of products that are still, for now,

00:11:46 ◼   ► in Apple's lineup, fine woven accessories

00:11:48 ◼   ► may get one last ride before Apple pulls the plug.

00:11:51 ◼   ► This was reported on MacRumors a couple of weeks back.

00:11:53 ◼   ► Over the weekend, Apple leaker and prototype collector

00:11:56 ◼   ► Kousutami claimed that Apple has decided to halt production

00:11:58 ◼   ► of fine woven accessories over durability concerns.

00:12:01 ◼   ► In a future update, the leaker has now suggested

00:12:03 ◼   ► we might see yet one more round of fine woven products

00:12:07 ◼   ► in a season of new colors before Apple finally says

00:12:10 ◼   ► farewell to the material for good.

00:12:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, the fine woven thing is weird.

00:12:14 ◼   ► We saw all the complaints about durability

00:12:16 ◼   ► and it looking ugly and getting, you know,

00:12:18 ◼   ► and the bottom line is if people don't like the product

00:12:23 ◼   ► and it gets a reputation for not being good,

00:12:26 ◼   ► they gotta try again.

00:12:27 ◼   ► Then they're not gonna go back to leather,

00:12:28 ◼   ► but yeah, take a second crack at this.

00:12:30 ◼   ► Like they tried something that's a little bit different

00:12:33 ◼   ► than what most people do, which is they make like,

00:12:35 ◼   ► they call it, you know, vegan leather.

00:12:36 ◼   ► They don't wanna call it fake leather or whatever.

00:12:39 ◼   ► All sorts of names they have for them

00:12:40 ◼   ► like in the car industry, basically saying

00:12:42 ◼   ► it's supposed to look and feel like leather,

00:12:43 ◼   ► but it's not made from animals at all.

00:12:45 ◼   ► It's made from petroleum, so it's fine.

00:12:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:12:48 ◼   ► - Great.

00:12:50 ◼   ► Yeah, this whole thing, like when this rumor came out

00:12:52 ◼   ► last week, it sounds like Apple is just discontinuing

00:12:56 ◼   ► the current line of colors and is making

00:12:59 ◼   ► a new spring collection.

00:13:00 ◼   ► They do that.

00:13:01 ◼   ► Like they always do that every year

00:13:02 ◼   ► with all their accessories.

00:13:03 ◼   ► So I'm not that surprised that things are changing

00:13:07 ◼   ► in that area for the spring.

00:13:08 ◼   ► I would be surprised if nothing changes

00:13:11 ◼   ► to that lineup this fall when they would typically

00:13:13 ◼   ► unveil like a whole new shape and size for the new phone.

00:13:17 ◼   ► So we'll see what happens then, but I think right now

00:13:19 ◼   ► it's too soon to really say that anything's happening.

00:13:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, and despite the petroleum crack,

00:13:23 ◼   ► like most of the fake leather stuff

00:13:25 ◼   ► does have some plastic component

00:13:26 ◼   ► 'cause you can make various kinds of plastic,

00:13:28 ◼   ► rubbery type materials look and feel

00:13:30 ◼   ► a little bit like leather.

00:13:31 ◼   ► That's what they do in car interiors.

00:13:33 ◼   ► Often they can be, you can make them more durable

00:13:37 ◼   ► than leather or at least durable in a different way

00:13:39 ◼   ► because leather wears, which is something people like

00:13:41 ◼   ► about leather, like leather that it changes appearance

00:13:44 ◼   ► and feel over time, but that's wearing, right?

00:13:46 ◼   ► It doesn't stay looking brand new,

00:13:48 ◼   ► whereas a lot of the fake leathers

00:13:50 ◼   ► can stay looking the same for longer,

00:13:52 ◼   ► but they may not be as durable long-term as leather

00:13:55 ◼   ► and you can sort of recondition leather and dye it

00:13:57 ◼   ► and repair it and all sorts of other stuff.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Anyway, it's a challenge.

00:14:00 ◼   ► It's a challenge to come up with,

00:14:01 ◼   ► Apple's had this challenge before,

00:14:02 ◼   ► to come up with environmentally friendlier versions

00:14:06 ◼   ► of things they use a long time,

00:14:08 ◼   ► whether it's putting tin in there or lead

00:14:10 ◼   ► or whatever in the solder or the plastic

00:14:12 ◼   ► that they used to use for the cables

00:14:14 ◼   ► that would come with your phone.

00:14:16 ◼   ► They had to change that to an environmentally friendly one

00:14:18 ◼   ► and the first time they tried to do that,

00:14:19 ◼   ► the plastic was all brittle and broken.

00:14:22 ◼   ► It's hard, but that's the challenge

00:14:23 ◼   ► they've put in front of themselves.

00:14:24 ◼   ► So if fine woven is a swing and a miss,

00:14:27 ◼   ► I'd give them a pass, good effort, try again next year.

00:14:30 ◼   ► - We are brought to you this episode by Compiler,

00:14:34 ◼   ► an original podcast from Red Hat,

00:14:36 ◼   ► discussing tech topics big, small, and strange.

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00:14:45 ◼   ► between those who are new to tech

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00:15:05 ◼   ► things like what are the components of a software stack?

00:15:07 ◼   ► And in fact, they have an episode, number 25,

00:15:10 ◼   ► The Great Stack Debate.

00:15:11 ◼   ► This is the first in their kind of a mini series

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00:16:24 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:16:27 ◼   ► - All right, let's talk about the Apple event

00:16:31 ◼   ► that happened yesterday as we record this.

00:16:33 ◼   ► This was, as per Tim Cook, the biggest day for iPad

00:16:37 ◼   ► since its introduction.

00:16:39 ◼   ► And we started off by noting that the Vision Pro

00:16:41 ◼   ► remains a product in Apple's lineup.

00:16:43 ◼   ► - That was the best.

00:16:44 ◼   ► - Tim was like, this event's all about iPads.

00:16:47 ◼   ► But first let's talk about the Vision Pro.

00:16:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just wanted to remind everyone.

00:16:51 ◼   ► I mean, I think that was as much as I made fun of it

00:16:53 ◼   ► and saying that the Vision Pro remains a product

00:16:55 ◼   ► in their lineup.

00:16:55 ◼   ► I think they have to do this, right?

00:16:59 ◼   ► Because if they didn't say anything,

00:17:01 ◼   ► it'd be like, look, they had an event

00:17:02 ◼   ► and they didn't even mention the Vision Pro.

00:17:03 ◼   ► You gotta mention it.

00:17:04 ◼   ► You gotta say, to show that Apple is still committed

00:17:09 ◼   ► to doing whatever it's doing with the Vision Pro.

00:17:11 ◼   ► Like they're not ashamed of it.

00:17:12 ◼   ► They're not trying to hide it.

00:17:13 ◼   ► They don't wanna not talk about it

00:17:15 ◼   ► because things aren't going well.

00:17:17 ◼   ► They are still behind it.

00:17:18 ◼   ► So I think that was an important reassurance.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Yes, Apple will take their lumps for saying like,

00:17:22 ◼   ► oh, you know, people don't think it's going great

00:17:24 ◼   ► out there in the world.

00:17:25 ◼   ► But by talking about it and trying to show

00:17:27 ◼   ► the few positive things they did have to say about it,

00:17:29 ◼   ► look, the enterprise loves it.

00:17:30 ◼   ► People are doing surgery with it.

00:17:31 ◼   ► It's great, right?

00:17:33 ◼   ► You gotta do that.

00:17:33 ◼   ► It's the newly announced product

00:17:35 ◼   ► and I'm kind of glad that was in the presentation.

00:17:38 ◼   ► - They of course have to keep promoting it

00:17:39 ◼   ► but they're not really giving us anything.

00:17:43 ◼   ► Like they're not really adding anything to it.

00:17:46 ◼   ► They don't have any--

00:17:46 ◼   ► - No, there's nothing to announce.

00:17:47 ◼   ► - Right, there's nothing to announce.

00:17:48 ◼   ► There's nothing to show off.

00:17:50 ◼   ► It doesn't seem like it's going super well

00:17:52 ◼   ► and so they don't really have anything they can brag about.

00:17:54 ◼   ► They don't really have any cool new uses.

00:17:56 ◼   ► They can really specifically talk about

00:17:57 ◼   ► that consumers would care about.

00:17:59 ◼   ► So it's a little, it feels a little bit strained.

00:18:02 ◼   ► - If they'd waited a few more days,

00:18:03 ◼   ► like this we'll probably talk about next week,

00:18:05 ◼   ► but there's this Marvel Studios what if immersive product,

00:18:09 ◼   ► whatever, coming to Vision Pro.

00:18:10 ◼   ► But I guess that just wasn't ready

00:18:12 ◼   ► because this obviously the video was recorded

00:18:14 ◼   ► before it was shown to us.

00:18:16 ◼   ► That would have been a nice thing to mention.

00:18:18 ◼   ► Like to say, and we actually have some new content

00:18:20 ◼   ► and it's from Marvel and it's an hour long

00:18:22 ◼   ► and that could get people excited

00:18:23 ◼   ► but it didn't make the cut.

00:18:25 ◼   ► - No, it didn't make the cut

00:18:26 ◼   ► because it may not have ever been there to get cut

00:18:28 ◼   ► to your point a moment ago.

00:18:29 ◼   ► Like the--

00:18:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, it didn't make the cut in terms of time wise.

00:18:32 ◼   ► I think this announcement happened

00:18:34 ◼   ► after they had long since recorded the--

00:18:36 ◼   ► - Exactly, yep, yep, yep.

00:18:37 ◼   ► So yeah, so the Vision Pro still exists.

00:18:40 ◼   ► The MacBook Air is the world's best selling 13

00:18:42 ◼   ► and 15 inch laptop.

00:18:43 ◼   ► - And 15 inch, you hear that?

00:18:45 ◼   ► Oh, I heard the 15 inch MacBook Air,

00:18:46 ◼   ► nobody wants to buy it.

00:18:47 ◼   ► It's the world's best selling 15 inch laptop, Apple.

00:18:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's pretty great.

00:18:51 ◼   ► - Don't think about canceling that

00:18:52 ◼   ► because it's not as popular as the 13.

00:18:55 ◼   ► - Yep, so things are going well,

00:18:56 ◼   ► at least in the MacBook Air section of the world.

00:18:59 ◼   ► And then we end up with John Turnus on a subway,

00:19:01 ◼   ► I guess it was the Bart, I don't know,

00:19:02 ◼   ► it doesn't really matter.

00:19:03 ◼   ► And I noticed as he was standing there

00:19:06 ◼   ► that the marquee or whatever behind him,

00:19:09 ◼   ► the little ticker tape, if you will,

00:19:10 ◼   ► says this train now goes to 13,

00:19:13 ◼   ► which was a surprising nod to what was expected,

00:19:16 ◼   ► but still yet to come.

00:19:18 ◼   ► And what was coming was the iPad Air,

00:19:20 ◼   ► which is now in 11 and 13 inches.

00:19:23 ◼   ► And there was an off the cuff mention

00:19:27 ◼   ► or an off-handed comment that about half of the users

00:19:30 ◼   ► choose 13 inch iPad, I guess it was iPad Pros,

00:19:33 ◼   ► I think they were talking about.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - That was for Pro.

00:19:35 ◼   ► They were saying that inspired by iPad Pro, comma,

00:19:39 ◼   ► where about half of the users choose the larger screen.

00:19:41 ◼   ► Which is interesting.

00:19:42 ◼   ► - 'Cause the users couldn't have chosen larger screen

00:19:44 ◼   ► on the iPad Air, we didn't have one.

00:19:45 ◼   ► - Right, and honestly, that's new information,

00:19:48 ◼   ► that of all iPad Pros, about half choose the 13 inch.

00:19:51 ◼   ► That's surprising to me.

00:19:52 ◼   ► I would have expected that to be less, but.

00:19:53 ◼   ► - I mean, I guess it kinda shows who's in the market

00:19:56 ◼   ► for an iPad Pro, and I feel like at this point

00:19:58 ◼   ► the iPad Pro's strongest, unique selling proposition

00:20:03 ◼   ► is the pen, right, the pencil, whatever.

00:20:05 ◼   ► And so if you're an artist and you're gonna actually

00:20:07 ◼   ► use that pencil, sure, you definitely want the bigger one,

00:20:10 ◼   ► right, 'cause the same people wanted, you know,

00:20:12 ◼   ► bigger Wacom tablets or whatever, like, that's,

00:20:15 ◼   ► I don't imagine people are buying the bigger one

00:20:18 ◼   ► so they can browse the web a little bigger.

00:20:19 ◼   ► It's all about having a bigger canvas to draw with the pencil

00:20:22 ◼   ► but for whatever reason, yeah, people are buying

00:20:23 ◼   ► the big one, which is the most expensive one.

00:20:26 ◼   ► - So we get the new iPad Air, 11 and 13 inches.

00:20:29 ◼   ► It's got an M2, it's got some okay colors.

00:20:32 ◼   ► They're not super wild, but they're fine.

00:20:35 ◼   ► And by the way, it's the new 11 inch and 13,

00:20:38 ◼   ► obviously the 13 inch is the new size.

00:20:39 ◼   ► The 11 inch, it's the same size as the 10.9.

00:20:42 ◼   ► Like, it's not, they just, Apple has just decided

00:20:44 ◼   ► they're not gonna do the decimal thing,

00:20:46 ◼   ► which was kinda weird that they did it to begin with.

00:20:47 ◼   ► I think the actual screen is like 10.86 inches.

00:20:50 ◼   ► Apple used to call it the 10.9 with rounding

00:20:52 ◼   ► but they couldn't round to one more place.

00:20:54 ◼   ► Now they're just calling it the 11,

00:20:55 ◼   ► but I believe it is the exact same resolution

00:20:56 ◼   ► and exact same dimensions as the previous 10.9 inch screen.

00:20:59 ◼   ► - Well, and that rounding is actually happening

00:21:01 ◼   ► across all four of the iPads that were announced today.

00:21:03 ◼   ► There's different amounts of rounding,

00:21:05 ◼   ► but they're all being rounded up to the nearest inch,

00:21:07 ◼   ► which is fine.

00:21:08 ◼   ► - That's what they do,

00:21:09 ◼   ► they've always done that with their laptops.

00:21:10 ◼   ► It's not like the 13 inch laptops

00:21:12 ◼   ► has always been exactly 13.0 inches.

00:21:14 ◼   ► It's just weird that for so long

00:21:15 ◼   ► we've dealt with like the 10.9 inch or 12.9 inch,

00:21:18 ◼   ► but yeah, whoever had that idea, Apple snapped out of it.

00:21:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm glad.

00:21:23 ◼   ► It's much easier now.

00:21:24 ◼   ► - Now I thought that some, I read somewhere,

00:21:27 ◼   ► this is not part of the event,

00:21:27 ◼   ► but I could've sworn I read somewhere

00:21:29 ◼   ► that there are a few more pixels.

00:21:31 ◼   ► - We'll get to that.

00:21:32 ◼   ► It's in the Pro, not in this one though.

00:21:33 ◼   ► - This, the iPad Air, I believe has exactly,

00:21:36 ◼   ► the iPad Air is essentially the previous iPad Pro,

00:21:40 ◼   ► but without Face ID and with the Touch ID thing added.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Like it's, I don't think there's any,

00:21:45 ◼   ► there's new screen, obviously the 13 inch is new, right?

00:21:48 ◼   ► But the 10.9, I believe is down to the pixel,

00:21:51 ◼   ► down to the millimeter, the same as it was.

00:21:53 ◼   ► - But no promotion in the iPad Air, which is worth noting.

00:21:57 ◼   ► But anyways, so yeah, so what is this iPad Air?

00:21:59 ◼   ► It's an M2, it works with the existing

00:22:03 ◼   ► at this point Magic Keyboard.

00:22:05 ◼   ► So this is the one that we'll later find out.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Well, we knew that it doesn't have a function row,

00:22:09 ◼   ► but we didn't know yet that that's what differentiates it.

00:22:11 ◼   ► And it works with a Apple Pencil.

00:22:15 ◼   ► I still, I need to bring up that stupid chart

00:22:17 ◼   ► 'cause I'm still not entirely clear

00:22:19 ◼   ► which Apple Pencils it works with.

00:22:20 ◼   ► - All the iPads that were announced to,

00:22:23 ◼   ► well, hmm, not all, okay, anyway.

00:22:25 ◼   ► If your iPad works with two pencils and it's just announced,

00:22:28 ◼   ► it works with the Apple Pencil Pro,

00:22:30 ◼   ► which we'll talk about in a little bit, and the USB one.

00:22:32 ◼   ► - The USB one works with any of them

00:22:34 ◼   ► 'cause you plug it in with a wire and it's all,

00:22:35 ◼   ► like there's no sort of physical incompatibility with them.

00:22:39 ◼   ► So that essentially works with all of them.

00:22:41 ◼   ► And if you have a flat-sided iPad with a landscape camera

00:22:46 ◼   ► that's not the cheapest one,

00:22:48 ◼   ► then you work with the Apple Pencil Pro

00:22:51 ◼   ► because that's the only one that has the magnets

00:22:53 ◼   ► and inductive charging to work with the flat-sided ones

00:22:56 ◼   ► with the landscape camera.

00:22:58 ◼   ► - Right on.

00:22:59 ◼   ► - So you can't use the Apple Pencil 2,

00:23:01 ◼   ► even though it looks like you could,

00:23:03 ◼   ► because it doesn't have the magnets and inductive stuff

00:23:06 ◼   ► to line up with where it is

00:23:07 ◼   ► 'cause they had to move all this stuff around

00:23:09 ◼   ► because it's got the camera on the long side

00:23:11 ◼   ► and it previously didn't.

00:23:12 ◼   ► So even though we're still in this transition period

00:23:15 ◼   ► of confusion, we are approaching a future year

00:23:18 ◼   ► when every iPad, right now every iPad works with a pencil,

00:23:22 ◼   ► which is good, and soon every iPad will work

00:23:24 ◼   ► with two pencils, the cheap one and the expensive one.

00:23:27 ◼   ► We'll get there eventually.

00:23:28 ◼   ► We're not there yet, but we'll get there.

00:23:30 ◼   ► - All right, yay yay.

00:23:32 ◼   ► All right, so then,

00:23:34 ◼   ► so to work with the existing Magic Keyboard,

00:23:36 ◼   ► a couple of Apple Pencils, it now starts at 128 gigs

00:23:39 ◼   ► and goes up to a terabyte,

00:23:41 ◼   ► starting at $600 and $800 available sometime next week.

00:23:45 ◼   ► I thought I heard on upgrade today

00:23:47 ◼   ► that it was like Wednesday or Thursday

00:23:49 ◼   ► of this upcoming week, so not tomorrow as we record,

00:23:51 ◼   ► but like a week from or something like that.

00:23:53 ◼   ► But there's some interesting news

00:23:55 ◼   ► with regard to packaging.

00:23:57 ◼   ► - Oh, actually, before we get to that, just to highlight,

00:23:59 ◼   ► even though this looks like the old iPad Pro,

00:24:02 ◼   ► like in appearance and can use the Magic Keyboard

00:24:05 ◼   ► and everything, it does not have Face ID.

00:24:07 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:24:08 ◼   ► - It has the Touch ID button thingy on the power button,

00:24:12 ◼   ► which is kind of weird to have like,

00:24:15 ◼   ► oh, it's just like the old Pro,

00:24:16 ◼   ► but we pulled out a bunch of stuff to make it cheaper.

00:24:17 ◼   ► I guess it makes sense, but just to be clear,

00:24:21 ◼   ► you do not get Face ID with this one.

00:24:24 ◼   ► - So according to 9to5Mac, the new iPad Pro and iPad Air

00:24:28 ◼   ► no longer include charger in the box in the UK

00:24:31 ◼   ► and other countries in Europe, and according to 9to5,

00:24:34 ◼   ► this appears to be due to the waste from electrical

00:24:37 ◼   ► and electronic equipment rules in the EU.

00:24:39 ◼   ► It's applicable to the UK because it predates Brexit.

00:24:42 ◼   ► - And what's that acronym,

00:24:43 ◼   ► Electrical and Electronic Equipment?

00:24:45 ◼   ► Weeeee, W-E-E-E rules, the weeeeee rules, weeeeeee, no charger for you. They sound so fun. [laughing]

00:25:02 ◼   ► - Apple's Apple logo stickers will not be included in the box

00:25:03 ◼   ► for the new iPad Pro and iPad Air.

00:25:06 ◼   ► The company says that this is part of its environmental goals

00:25:08 ◼   ► as it strives to ensure its packaging

00:25:09 ◼   ► is completely plastic-free.

00:25:10 ◼   ► Apple stores, however, are receiving shipments

00:25:12 ◼   ► with a limited quantity of Apple logo stickers

00:25:14 ◼   ► that can be distributed to customers

00:25:15 ◼   ► who buy a new iPad Pro or iPad Air, but only upon request.

00:25:19 ◼   ► - What a weird thing the Apple stickers are.

00:25:20 ◼   ► We don't talk about it too much on the show,

00:25:22 ◼   ► but how weird is it that for like, what, 25, 30 years,

00:25:26 ◼   ► Apple has been including tiny stickers of its company logo

00:25:30 ◼   ► in essentially all of its products,

00:25:31 ◼   ► and what did people do with those?

00:25:33 ◼   ► I mean, I guess you could put them on your car or whatever,

00:25:35 ◼   ► but honestly, like, if you are an Apple customer

00:25:38 ◼   ► for any amount of time, you've got enough stickers.

00:25:41 ◼   ► Like, the logo doesn't change.

00:25:42 ◼   ► Like, oh, you got a black one with the Mac Pro or whatever,

00:25:44 ◼   ► but like, you're being inundated with stickers

00:25:46 ◼   ► that you do not care about.

00:25:47 ◼   ► They're just going in the trash

00:25:48 ◼   ► or they're sitting inside the box in your attic

00:25:50 ◼   ► if you're me or whatever, and it's like, how many stickers,

00:25:53 ◼   ► how many Apple logo stickers does the world need?

00:25:56 ◼   ► - No, I mean, a lot of people who don't have

00:25:58 ◼   ► as many Apple products as you, which is most people,

00:26:01 ◼   ► they, like, I see those stickers on cars.

00:26:03 ◼   ► Somebody on my dog walk has them on their trash cans

00:26:06 ◼   ► for some reason. - Right, but that's like one.

00:26:08 ◼   ► Every product would come with two.

00:26:09 ◼   ► So you've got the one on your car,

00:26:10 ◼   ► and you've got the one spare,

00:26:12 ◼   ► and you're good until you get a new car.

00:26:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:26:16 ◼   ► Like, it's too many stickers.

00:26:17 ◼   ► Like, it's kind of amazing that they've shipped that long,

00:26:20 ◼   ► especially if you look at everything else

00:26:22 ◼   ► that has come with the products.

00:26:23 ◼   ► Like, they used to come with a little instruction manual,

00:26:24 ◼   ► instruction booklets, and they were slowly narrowed down

00:26:27 ◼   ► to just be like one piece of paper

00:26:29 ◼   ► or like a folding thing that folds out

00:26:31 ◼   ► and has like three pages.

00:26:32 ◼   ► Like, they have really reduced the amount of literature,

00:26:37 ◼   ► essentially, or paper things

00:26:39 ◼   ► that come with all of their products.

00:26:41 ◼   ► And because the stickers are plastic,

00:26:43 ◼   ► they're, you know, it's amazing they last that long,

00:26:45 ◼   ► is what I'm saying.

00:26:46 ◼   ► I don't begrudge people.

00:26:47 ◼   ► I think it's great to have them in the store.

00:26:48 ◼   ► That's exactly how it should be.

00:26:49 ◼   ► Even they can even offer you,

00:26:50 ◼   ► buy something at Apple Store and say,

00:26:51 ◼   ► "Hey, do you want a sticker?"

00:26:52 ◼   ► And if you want one, you get one,

00:26:53 ◼   ► and if you don't, you pass.

00:26:55 ◼   ► But shipping them to everybody,

00:26:57 ◼   ► whether they want them or not, it's too much.

00:26:58 ◼   ► - And I agree.

00:26:59 ◼   ► My view is skewed by buying way too many Apple products.

00:27:03 ◼   ► But I feel like even if you don't buy a lot of them,

00:27:04 ◼   ► even if you had a new phone every five years

00:27:06 ◼   ► and you're an iPhone customer,

00:27:07 ◼   ► by now you've got a lot of those stickers.

00:27:09 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:27:11 ◼   ► All right, anything else with regard to the iPad Air?

00:27:15 ◼   ► I mean, this seems good.

00:27:16 ◼   ► It seems like a really nice product.

00:27:18 ◼   ► I think for most people, including surely me,

00:27:22 ◼   ► if I had any common sense, this was more than enough.

00:27:24 ◼   ► I mean, it's a really nice machine.

00:27:26 ◼   ► And it's not cheap, but it's not absurdly expensive.

00:27:29 ◼   ► So I'm on board with all these changes.

00:27:32 ◼   ► - I really like the 13-inch Air with the pencil.

00:27:36 ◼   ► It's a much cheaper way to get a really big iPad

00:27:40 ◼   ► that you can draw on, essentially.

00:27:42 ◼   ► Just like the 15-inch MacBook Air,

00:27:44 ◼   ► just like the iPhone Plus size,

00:27:46 ◼   ► keeping the big version stuck in the highest end,

00:27:51 ◼   ► like trim level, essentially,

00:27:52 ◼   ► was always a bad decision in terms of satisfying

00:27:56 ◼   ► customer needs, right?

00:27:58 ◼   ► And it's great that there is now a big one that is cheaper

00:28:00 ◼   ► and that is pretty good.

00:28:02 ◼   ► Like, Face ID, yeah, I like it and everything,

00:28:05 ◼   ► but it doesn't affect the drawing experience.

00:28:07 ◼   ► It's just the unlock experience, so who cares?

00:28:09 ◼   ► And so I give the iPad Air mostly a thumbs up.

00:28:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's,

00:28:14 ◼   ► and we'll get into this more as the show goes on,

00:28:16 ◼   ► but there is kind of the question

00:28:19 ◼   ► of what people use iPads for.

00:28:22 ◼   ► And of course, there's lots of different answers

00:28:24 ◼   ► to that question, but obviously,

00:28:25 ◼   ► a very, very common use case for them

00:28:27 ◼   ► is basically being big screens running low-needs apps,

00:28:31 ◼   ► like in terms of computing power.

00:28:32 ◼   ► So that would be obviously things like watching video,

00:28:35 ◼   ► that's a very popular use for them.

00:28:37 ◼   ► But even, you know, a lot of people use them

00:28:38 ◼   ► as kind of light productivity devices,

00:28:41 ◼   ► or kind of like low-end gaming devices, especially for kids.

00:28:45 ◼   ► And so I feel like there is a very large market

00:28:49 ◼   ► for iPads that are just decent

00:28:53 ◼   ► and have maybe a bigger screen, like the new 13X Air,

00:28:57 ◼   ► without having all of the cost of the Pro.

00:29:00 ◼   ► And with the Pro, you know, adding a bunch of features

00:29:02 ◼   ► for that cost that I think almost all iPad owners

00:29:06 ◼   ► really don't need.

00:29:07 ◼   ► I do wish it had Face ID.

00:29:09 ◼   ► That's the one big kind of like, you know,

00:29:12 ◼   ► hard to swallow pill here.

00:29:14 ◼   ► And Apple PR has obviously been telling everybody

00:29:17 ◼   ► who was at the PR event today,

00:29:19 ◼   ► 'cause we've heard it all on a bunch of other podcasts now,

00:29:20 ◼   ► you can tell, you can always see

00:29:23 ◼   ► what Apple's PR talking points are

00:29:25 ◼   ► by listening to the podcasts and the YouTube videos

00:29:28 ◼   ► of the people who were there,

00:29:30 ◼   ► 'cause you can tell they were all fed

00:29:31 ◼   ► the same talking points.

00:29:32 ◼   ► But clearly Apple is telling everybody

00:29:34 ◼   ► that the Face ID components are expensive,

00:29:36 ◼   ► and that's why it just can't be in the air.

00:29:40 ◼   ► And they could put it in there if they wanted to.

00:29:43 ◼   ► It's not that expensive, it's not like Face ID is brand new.

00:29:46 ◼   ► - The follow-up question would be like, how expensive?

00:29:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Like they're choosing not to put it in there,

00:29:51 ◼   ► I think mostly for segmentation.

00:29:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, the thing is, I agree

00:29:55 ◼   ► that they probably are expensive,

00:29:56 ◼   ► but you know, it's not like they're $300, right?

00:30:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:30:02 ◼   ► - So they're, and you know, how much do they cost Apple?

00:30:06 ◼   ► Whatever they cost, it's like,

00:30:08 ◼   ► because if Apple told you the truth,

00:30:09 ◼   ► not that they're ever gonna do this,

00:30:10 ◼   ► but if they told you, okay, when we buy this part

00:30:13 ◼   ► plus the integration and assembly, like all told,

00:30:16 ◼   ► it would cost us this much more per unit

00:30:19 ◼   ► to put Face ID into it.

00:30:21 ◼   ► And you would say, great, I'll pay that.

00:30:23 ◼   ► And Apple would be like, well, that's not what you would pay.

00:30:26 ◼   ► You'd pay that plus our typical 40% margin.

00:30:29 ◼   ► Now will you do it?

00:30:30 ◼   ► And you're like, oh, the cost of all that

00:30:32 ◼   ► plus the 40% margin, now I'm adding

00:30:34 ◼   ► like 100 and something bucks to it.

00:30:35 ◼   ► No, actually I won't pay that.

00:30:36 ◼   ► And Apple's gonna be like, see?

00:30:38 ◼   ► And we would say, how about you don't take a 40% margin

00:30:41 ◼   ► on Face ID, and Apple's like,

00:30:42 ◼   ► that's not how we became the richest company in the world.

00:30:44 ◼   ► So that's how that conversation would go essentially.

00:30:46 ◼   ► But I mean, what Apple's, the Apple talking point

00:30:50 ◼   ► is essentially emphasizing that unlike RAM

00:30:53 ◼   ► and every other part of computing,

00:30:55 ◼   ► apparently the Face ID components haven't gone down

00:30:58 ◼   ► in price over the years as much as you would think.

00:31:01 ◼   ► And of course my fault for that would be like,

00:31:03 ◼   ► what about the things that do go down in price, Apple?

00:31:05 ◼   ► You also don't give us a break on those.

00:31:08 ◼   ► So whatever, it's the cheaper product.

00:31:10 ◼   ► Like what we all hope is from the good old days

00:31:13 ◼   ► of computing is something will come out

00:31:15 ◼   ► and it will only be on the high end model

00:31:17 ◼   ► and we'll just wait a few years and it will trickle down

00:31:18 ◼   ► to the rest of the lineup.

00:31:20 ◼   ► And for things whose cost follows the typical electronics,

00:31:25 ◼   ► computing curve, that does happen.

00:31:28 ◼   ► And we do see things trickling down to the lower end models.

00:31:30 ◼   ► But Apple's talking point on this,

00:31:32 ◼   ► which we just take their word for 'cause I don't know,

00:31:34 ◼   ► is that the Face ID components have not reduced in price

00:31:38 ◼   ► like we would expect of typical components

00:31:40 ◼   ► that go into things.

00:31:41 ◼   ► That's why it hasn't trickled down yet.

00:31:42 ◼   ► We would presume that in five years, 10 years,

00:31:46 ◼   ► eventually it all trickles down.

00:31:48 ◼   ► Like it used to be that the cheap ones had home buttons

00:31:50 ◼   ► and we finally got rid of that.

00:31:51 ◼   ► It took a long time to get rid of that, but we finally did.

00:31:53 ◼   ► But we didn't replace it all with Face ID,

00:31:55 ◼   ► we just have Touch ID and the power button.

00:31:56 ◼   ► But I think it will happen eventually,

00:32:00 ◼   ► but yes for market segmentation and yes,

00:32:02 ◼   ► there's probably some truth to the idea

00:32:04 ◼   ► that those components haven't come down in price

00:32:05 ◼   ► because I'm not sure how many other manufacturers

00:32:07 ◼   ► are buying those, but honestly Apple is such a big customer,

00:32:09 ◼   ► it shouldn't really matter.

00:32:10 ◼   ► So anyway, fingers crossed for what?

00:32:12 ◼   ► Let's say five years from now,

00:32:14 ◼   ► finally getting Face ID on the iPad Air.

00:32:16 ◼   ► Not the cheap iPad, but just the iPad Air.

00:32:18 ◼   ► - Right.

00:32:19 ◼   ► And I think it's interesting too,

00:32:20 ◼   ► like when you're comparing,

00:32:21 ◼   ► or trying to figure out relative component costs,

00:32:24 ◼   ► look at the iPhones.

00:32:25 ◼   ► And what's interesting about when you compare iPhone

00:32:28 ◼   ► to iPad is that they do have a lot of the same components.

00:32:31 ◼   ► However, iPhones generally cost way more than iPads.

00:32:36 ◼   ► But iPads have these giant screens and more speakers

00:32:41 ◼   ► and they don't actually save that many of the components.

00:32:44 ◼   ► - And bigger batteries, those cost more too.

00:32:47 ◼   ► - Right, and bigger cases.

00:32:48 ◼   ► So it's interesting, when you look,

00:32:51 ◼   ► the iPads actually probably,

00:32:53 ◼   ► they probably do need lower end hardware

00:32:57 ◼   ► in a lot of ways to hit those prices

00:32:59 ◼   ► because they are, while keeping at Apple's margins,

00:33:02 ◼   ► because they are so much lower priced

00:33:05 ◼   ► than kind of similar generation or comparable iPhones.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Like right now, the cheapest iPhone is the SE,

00:33:12 ◼   ► for if we're matching storage tiers,

00:33:14 ◼   ► then it's 480 for the SE at 128,

00:33:19 ◼   ► versus 600 for the cheapest phone,

00:33:23 ◼   ► which is currently the old 13, that's still for sale.

00:33:25 ◼   ► $600 is the cheapest phone at 128 gigs with Face ID.

00:33:29 ◼   ► So that compares to the exact same price

00:33:33 ◼   ► as the iPad Air with the same storage.

00:33:36 ◼   ► And the iPad Air has the M1 in it, sorry, M2 in it.

00:33:39 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:40 ◼   ► - And a massive screen.

00:33:41 ◼   ► - Right, and a massive screen and more speakers.

00:33:43 ◼   ► And so you can sort of see, okay, it is kind of,

00:33:47 ◼   ► they don't have the cell modem, so that saves some.

00:33:51 ◼   ► You can get it for more money, obviously,

00:33:54 ◼   ► but at that price, they have less cellular equipment,

00:33:58 ◼   ► the camera system is cheaper, probably,

00:34:00 ◼   ► but you can start to see there is some price pressure there

00:34:04 ◼   ► that they're trying to sell these devices

00:34:06 ◼   ► with phone components, with phone profit margins,

00:34:11 ◼   ► but they're bigger devices, so that does become harder.

00:34:14 ◼   ► But all that being said, I do think the choice of Face ID

00:34:18 ◼   ► is not about component cost in this case,

00:34:21 ◼   ► it is primarily segmentation.

00:34:23 ◼   ► - So that's the iPad Air, and you know,

00:34:25 ◼   ► I think it's basically two thumbs up from the ATP crew,

00:34:28 ◼   ► I think we're good.

00:34:29 ◼   ► - I think though, for our listeners,

00:34:30 ◼   ► if you're trying to consider what to buy,

00:34:33 ◼   ► I would suggest, unless you are really pushing

00:34:37 ◼   ► the processing power of your iPad,

00:34:39 ◼   ► which we'll get to, it's difficult to do,

00:34:42 ◼   ► iPads tend to last a long time in use,

00:34:45 ◼   ► like they tend to have pretty long lives.

00:34:48 ◼   ► I would suggest maybe going for a Pro

00:34:51 ◼   ► and just keeping it longer, compared to going for an Air.

00:34:54 ◼   ► If you are a nerd who listens to this show,

00:34:56 ◼   ► who cares about things like the best screen,

00:34:59 ◼   ► the Face ID convenience, like the better speakers,

00:35:02 ◼   ► better, all that stuff, I think you'd be better off

00:35:06 ◼   ► buying an iPad Pro every five years or whatever,

00:35:10 ◼   ► compared to buying an iPad Air every three years,

00:35:12 ◼   ► or whatever the numbers are for you,

00:35:14 ◼   ► I think you're better off getting the nice Pro features

00:35:18 ◼   ► if you're a nerd like us.

00:35:19 ◼   ► But for most people who are not nerds,

00:35:21 ◼   ► this is a great mid-range product and they won't care.

00:35:24 ◼   ► - And you can look at a refurb like previous model iPad Pro

00:35:27 ◼   ► if you don't care about the features

00:35:28 ◼   ► that are new on this one, because you will get

00:35:30 ◼   ► all the Pro features and you'll get Face ID,

00:35:31 ◼   ► you'll get all the good stuff, you get a fast processor,

00:35:33 ◼   ► it just won't have this year's stuff.

00:35:34 ◼   ► And while those are still in stock from Apple,

00:35:37 ◼   ► or if you can find one cheap elsewhere,

00:35:39 ◼   ► that you can get a good deal on it.

00:35:41 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

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00:37:39 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:37:41 ◼   ► - So let's talk iPad Pro.

00:37:45 ◼   ► And as we were transitioning from Ternus in the library,

00:37:50 ◼   ► talking about the iPad Air, he grabs a little book

00:37:53 ◼   ► that says, the title was It's Thin Possible,

00:37:56 ◼   ► which I thought was pretty funny.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And we learn about the iPad Pro.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Was it immediately that we get the commercial thing?

00:38:05 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:38:05 ◼   ► - The crushing video?

00:38:06 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:38:07 ◼   ► - Oh, what a weird thing that was.

00:38:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, so again, as we're recording, it's Wednesday night.

00:38:13 ◼   ► And I have been mostly offline for most of the day,

00:38:18 ◼   ► but I've been online enough to see that apparently

00:38:20 ◼   ► people have thoughts about the crushing commercial.

00:38:23 ◼   ► So let me describe this real quick.

00:38:24 ◼   ► So you see on one of those gigantic industrial presses,

00:38:29 ◼   ► just massive, massive, massive industrial presses,

00:38:32 ◼   ► there's like a piano and instruments and art and paint

00:38:37 ◼   ► and all these different things that are all supposed

00:38:39 ◼   ► to represent different flavors of art and whatnot.

00:38:42 ◼   ► And it's on this industrial press

00:38:44 ◼   ► that starts squishing it all down.

00:38:45 ◼   ► And they do some kind of funny things where there's like,

00:38:48 ◼   ► I don't know the name for it,

00:38:49 ◼   ► but you know those wooden people,

00:38:51 ◼   ► like humanoid models that you can pose in different poses.

00:38:55 ◼   ► If you saw a picture of it,

00:38:55 ◼   ► you'd know exactly what I'm thinking of.

00:38:57 ◼   ► And it's got its arms up and its head looking back like,

00:39:00 ◼   ► "No, don't squish me," sort of thing.

00:39:01 ◼   ► And then there's a TV with a little animated character

00:39:05 ◼   ► and it looks up and kind of does an oh no sort of thing.

00:39:07 ◼   ► And at the time, I didn't think that much of it.

00:39:11 ◼   ► I didn't think it was stellar,

00:39:13 ◼   ► but I saw what they were going for.

00:39:15 ◼   ► It made sense to me at the time.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Oh, what they're doing is they're squishing all this down.

00:39:19 ◼   ► And then the end of the commercial,

00:39:20 ◼   ► the press comes back up

00:39:22 ◼   ► and you see that there's an iPad Pro sitting there.

00:39:23 ◼   ► So the ostensible message here

00:39:25 ◼   ► is that all these different things that you can do,

00:39:27 ◼   ► you can paint, you can play music,

00:39:29 ◼   ► you can do video, all this stuff,

00:39:31 ◼   ► you can squish into this one iPad Pro.

00:39:33 ◼   ► - And this new iPad Pro is really thin.

00:39:36 ◼   ► That's the other thing.

00:39:37 ◼   ► We squished the iPad so it got even skinnier

00:39:40 ◼   ► 'cause it was squished in a hydraulic press.

00:39:41 ◼   ► That's why it's so thin.

00:39:43 ◼   ► That's why it's thin possible,

00:39:44 ◼   ► so our thinnest product ever, blah, blah, blah.

00:39:45 ◼   ► So that's why they're using a hydraulic press in this app.

00:39:48 ◼   ► - Right.

00:39:49 ◼   ► So for me, when I first saw it, I was like,

00:39:51 ◼   ► "Eh, okay, whatever."

00:39:52 ◼   ► And apparently there's been some discourse since then.

00:39:55 ◼   ► And I think, again, for me, I don't really understand it,

00:40:00 ◼   ► but if I try to put my head in the shoe,

00:40:02 ◼   ► or put my thoughts in the shoes

00:40:03 ◼   ► of someone who's a creative professional in that sense,

00:40:06 ◼   ► like a true-to-form artist, musician, so on and so forth,

00:40:09 ◼   ► especially what's been going on with AI recently

00:40:11 ◼   ► and the discourse around AI,

00:40:14 ◼   ► I could see how it would be a little bothersome

00:40:16 ◼   ► to say the least, even--

00:40:17 ◼   ► - Oh, god, I think it was terrible.

00:40:20 ◼   ► So I am not a creative professional

00:40:22 ◼   ► in any of the ways that were represented there.

00:40:26 ◼   ► Maybe they could crush a podcasting microphone.

00:40:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:40:30 ◼   ► So it starts out, and the first thing you see get crushed

00:40:33 ◼   ► is a trumpet standing on its end.

00:40:35 ◼   ► First of all, my kid plays a trumpet,

00:40:36 ◼   ► so there's trumpets in my house.

00:40:37 ◼   ► And I'm like, "I don't think musicians will like this."

00:40:40 ◼   ► And even I, not a musician,

00:40:43 ◼   ► I see they're crushing a trumpet.

00:40:44 ◼   ► I'm like, "That's so destructive, what a waste."

00:40:47 ◼   ► And I'm like, "I see what they're going for.

00:40:49 ◼   ► "Look, you can cram all this stuff into an iPad."

00:40:51 ◼   ► What it looked like to me was we are destroying

00:40:56 ◼   ► all of these real-world artistic objects

00:40:59 ◼   ► because you don't need them anymore

00:41:00 ◼   ► because you're replacing them with this fake digital version

00:41:03 ◼   ► and that's pretty disrespectful.

00:41:05 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, there's a lot of anxiety

00:41:07 ◼   ► about AI replacing creative people

00:41:10 ◼   ► and the computers taking their jobs and stuff,

00:41:12 ◼   ► and I think that's all tied up in this as well.

00:41:13 ◼   ► - I didn't even consider it an AI thing,

00:41:15 ◼   ► although I see why people would be sensitive

00:41:17 ◼   ► about that right now, that makes sense.

00:41:18 ◼   ► But I think it just showed disrespect

00:41:22 ◼   ► for all of these instruments of music and art.

00:41:26 ◼   ► It's like, you don't need this crap anymore.

00:41:29 ◼   ► You just have an iPad.

00:41:30 ◼   ► It's like, ooh, that's an odd message to be sending.

00:41:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, I see how they came up with this ad, though.

00:41:36 ◼   ► I posted this on Mastodon.

00:41:38 ◼   ► I was surprised at how many people didn't know about this

00:41:40 ◼   ► 'cause I feel like it's one of the most famous channels

00:41:42 ◼   ► on YouTube, but there's a channel on YouTube

00:41:44 ◼   ► called, fittingly, the Hydraulic Press channel.

00:41:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:47 ◼   ► - And they just take a hydraulic press and squish things.

00:41:50 ◼   ► And the reason people like that channel

00:41:52 ◼   ► is it's fun to see what various materials do

00:41:54 ◼   ► when put under a tremendous amount of pressure.

00:41:56 ◼   ► And generally what people wanna see

00:41:58 ◼   ► is them do something dramatic.

00:42:01 ◼   ► They explode, they shatter,

00:42:02 ◼   ► or they crush in a really interesting way,

00:42:05 ◼   ► or they're just destroyed,

00:42:07 ◼   ► or it doesn't look like anything has happened

00:42:09 ◼   ► for 30 seconds and then finally they just shatter

00:42:11 ◼   ► into a million pieces, right?

00:42:13 ◼   ► That's why this channel is popular.

00:42:14 ◼   ► So when they came up with the idea of it's really thin,

00:42:17 ◼   ► we're gonna put it in the hydraulic press,

00:42:18 ◼   ► oh, let's make it look like we're pressing

00:42:20 ◼   ► all this stuff into it,

00:42:21 ◼   ► like we're pressing all this creativity inside of it.

00:42:23 ◼   ► The problem is that when you're shooting this

00:42:26 ◼   ► and you live in a culture

00:42:27 ◼   ► where the Hydraulic Press channel exists

00:42:29 ◼   ► and you know that people like it

00:42:31 ◼   ► because of the destruction, that's the direction you go,

00:42:34 ◼   ► which is like, okay, it's not just that we have

00:42:36 ◼   ► a bunch of musical instruments and sculptures

00:42:40 ◼   ► and paints and all sorts of stuff in the thing.

00:42:42 ◼   ► It's okay, but when they get pressed,

00:42:44 ◼   ► they're going to do something dramatic.

00:42:46 ◼   ► They're gonna crumple, they're gonna explode,

00:42:48 ◼   ► they're gonna squirt.

00:42:49 ◼   ► That means at the end of the thing they had a giant,

00:42:50 ◼   ► like a big explosion type thing, right?

00:42:54 ◼   ► And so what they, and unknowingly,

00:42:57 ◼   ► they think they're doing what they should be doing,

00:42:58 ◼   ► which is like, that's what people like

00:42:59 ◼   ► about the Hydraulic Press channel.

00:43:00 ◼   ► We have to do that, of course,

00:43:01 ◼   ► but what they've unknowingly started to do

00:43:03 ◼   ► is show the destruction of things

00:43:06 ◼   ► that are meaningful to people.

00:43:07 ◼   ► And it mostly doesn't matter whether it was all CG,

00:43:10 ◼   ► all practical, or anywhere in between.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Like, I don't think anyone is specifically angry

00:43:15 ◼   ► that they killed one trumpet, right?

00:43:17 ◼   ► It's the idea of showing even a completely CG trumpet

00:43:21 ◼   ► being crushed because it is,

00:43:23 ◼   ► it's disrespectful to the objects, you know?

00:43:26 ◼   ► It looks like, because they're destroying them.

00:43:29 ◼   ► The destruction of them is the point,

00:43:31 ◼   ► because that's what people like

00:43:32 ◼   ► about the Hydraulic Press channel,

00:43:34 ◼   ► is things are destroyed,

00:43:35 ◼   ► and they got those wires crossed, right?

00:43:37 ◼   ► And so that's, it'll pass or whatever,

00:43:41 ◼   ► but I feel like it's an interesting point,

00:43:43 ◼   ► because everyone making it feels like they're doing,

00:43:46 ◼   ► like, you know, creative stuff is inside the iPad.

00:43:49 ◼   ► The iPad's real thin,

00:43:50 ◼   ► and also everybody loves the Hydraulic Press channel.

00:43:53 ◼   ► And when they put them together, it's like, no,

00:43:55 ◼   ► you didn't realize, you know,

00:43:57 ◼   ► you took a bunch of individual things that people like,

00:43:59 ◼   ► but you crossed the streams.

00:44:01 ◼   ► To the people watching the Hydraulic Press channel,

00:44:03 ◼   ► like, no violinist wants to go to the Hydraulic Press channel

00:44:06 ◼   ► and see them destroy even the cheapest violin

00:44:08 ◼   ► in the Hydraulic Press.

00:44:09 ◼   ► Like, that's what they essentially did.

00:44:11 ◼   ► They went to the Hydraulic Press channel and they said,

00:44:13 ◼   ► what item do you care about in your life

00:44:15 ◼   ► as a creative professional?

00:44:16 ◼   ► Come to the Hydraulic Press channel,

00:44:17 ◼   ► we're gonna put that in it.

00:44:19 ◼   ► And that, people don't like.

00:44:21 ◼   ► Like, that's not the vibe.

00:44:23 ◼   ► So, you know, they'll learn,

00:44:25 ◼   ► hopefully learn from this mistake.

00:44:27 ◼   ► I think the idea of squishing it to make it real flat

00:44:28 ◼   ► is fine, but you know, they can all be winners.

00:44:32 ◼   ► - And one thing I noticed immediately, too, in the video is,

00:44:35 ◼   ► you don't see any Apple products getting squished.

00:44:37 ◼   ► Like, they squish, they have some PC monitors,

00:44:40 ◼   ► that look, they might be Apple products,

00:44:41 ◼   ► but they just get knocked over and it cuts away,

00:44:44 ◼   ► you never see them actually get damaged.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Like, you only see other things get--

00:44:47 ◼   ► - What would they crush into the iPad?

00:44:50 ◼   ► Like, I guess I'd put, I don't know, the iPod Nano,

00:44:53 ◼   ► that we see later.

00:44:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:55 ◼   ► - Well, the Mac for a few years ago.

00:44:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true.

00:44:59 ◼   ► - Butterfly keyboard, wee!

00:45:00 ◼   ► - The smart keyboard folio, aw.

00:45:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, that's true.

00:45:04 ◼   ► So, in any case, so let's talk about the design,

00:45:08 ◼   ► and Apple said, quote, "We've always envisioned iPad

00:45:10 ◼   ► "as a magical sheet of glass."

00:45:12 ◼   ► And so, apparently it's pretty darn close now.

00:45:15 ◼   ► So, the 11 inch is 5.3 millimeters

00:45:18 ◼   ► and just barely under a pound.

00:45:20 ◼   ► The 13 inch is 5.1 millimeters,

00:45:23 ◼   ► and I don't have the weight in front of me,

00:45:25 ◼   ► 1.02 pounds, I believe.

00:45:27 ◼   ► And a lot of people have pointed out,

00:45:30 ◼   ► this doesn't bother me as much as I think it bothers

00:45:32 ◼   ► a lot of other people, although it does make me chuckle.

00:45:34 ◼   ► The iPad Pro is now lighter than the iPad Air, which,

00:45:38 ◼   ► I understand how we got there, and maybe, John,

00:45:40 ◼   ► you can give us a nickel tour, or I can if you prefer,

00:45:42 ◼   ► of how we ended up here, but that is kind of funny

00:45:45 ◼   ► that this is where we are.

00:45:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, it's just that, more of Apple's, like,

00:45:49 ◼   ► difficulty, let's say, in naming things.

00:45:51 ◼   ► The iPad Air, the original one, Air,

00:45:53 ◼   ► was because it's light as air, and it's thin,

00:45:55 ◼   ► and it fits in a metal envelope, and the problem is,

00:45:57 ◼   ► that product was wildly successful, and so, Apple's like,

00:46:00 ◼   ► "We need to leverage this brand equity."

00:46:03 ◼   ► People like the MacBook Air.

00:46:06 ◼   ► Air is good, A, we're gonna keep making that,

00:46:08 ◼   ► and B, we can put the Air suffix on other products,

00:46:11 ◼   ► and make people associate them with the good feelings

00:46:13 ◼   ► they have about the MacBook Air, even though it doesn't

00:46:16 ◼   ► necessarily make any sense, because they would put Air

00:46:18 ◼   ► on products that were not the smallest, lightest,

00:46:20 ◼   ► thinnest, most manila envelope, slippy, like,

00:46:23 ◼   ► they're just doing it because it's a brand name that worked,

00:46:24 ◼   ► and Air has long since stopped meaning anything

00:46:27 ◼   ► about how small it, remember when there was the,

00:46:29 ◼   ► you know, the MacBook One, the 12-inch MacBook,

00:46:31 ◼   ► it was way smaller than any Air, but it wasn't called Air,

00:46:34 ◼   ► but the Air still exists, they were bigger than that, right?

00:46:36 ◼   ► So it's, Air just means it's not the Pro One,

00:46:39 ◼   ► and we're trying to leverage, establish brand equity

00:46:43 ◼   ► based on the MacBook Air, so it's not particularly sensible,

00:46:46 ◼   ► and they probably should have retired it,

00:46:49 ◼   ► or kept it just in the MacBook Air.

00:46:51 ◼   ► When they extended it to the iPad, you're like,

00:46:53 ◼   ► "All right, fine, whatever," but anyway,

00:46:55 ◼   ► the fact that the Air is a little bit heavier

00:46:57 ◼   ► than the Pro now, like, who cares?

00:46:59 ◼   ► It's not a big deal.

00:47:00 ◼   ► - Well, it made sense, the very first iPad Air

00:47:04 ◼   ► was a big weight and thickness savings

00:47:06 ◼   ► over its predecessor, so it actually made sense

00:47:09 ◼   ► to use it when they first used it.

00:47:11 ◼   ► - Briefly. - But yeah,

00:47:12 ◼   ► but then all iPads just became those dimensions,

00:47:14 ◼   ► and now it doesn't mean anything anymore.

00:47:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, and you know, now the Pro's got thinner,

00:47:18 ◼   ► which is interesting, so Apple's big pitch on this was,

00:47:21 ◼   ► it's the thinnest Apple product ever,

00:47:24 ◼   ► and I immediately started googling, I'm like,

00:47:25 ◼   ► "Really, was it thinner than,"

00:47:27 ◼   ► I'm trying to think of the thinnest product,

00:47:29 ◼   ► they compared it to the iPad Nano, and--

00:47:30 ◼   ► - The iPod Nano. - Obviously,

00:47:31 ◼   ► they showed it on camera, I'm like,

00:47:33 ◼   ► wasn't, and I looked this up, I'm like,

00:47:35 ◼   ► "Surely the buttonless shuffle was thinner than the Nano,"

00:47:38 ◼   ► but the answer is no, it was not,

00:47:40 ◼   ► according to my brief googling during the keynote.

00:47:42 ◼   ► So I take Apple at their word,

00:47:44 ◼   ► this is the thinnest Apple product ever.

00:47:46 ◼   ► There is some history with thin Apple products,

00:47:49 ◼   ► mostly not good. (laughs)

00:47:52 ◼   ► When, what was it, the iPhone 6, I believe,

00:47:56 ◼   ► it was-- - Yeah, Vendgate.

00:47:57 ◼   ► - The thinnest iPhone they had ever made,

00:48:00 ◼   ► that didn't work out that well,

00:48:01 ◼   ► it turned out to be easier to bend.

00:48:03 ◼   ► I guarantee you, you're going to see bent iPad Pros

00:48:07 ◼   ► on a million YouTube channels,

00:48:08 ◼   ► 'cause that's, I mean, there's YouTube channels

00:48:09 ◼   ► that are just literally dedicated

00:48:10 ◼   ► to buying every Apple product and bending it,

00:48:12 ◼   ► like that just always happens. (laughs)

00:48:13 ◼   ► And it will happen with these as well.

00:48:15 ◼   ► And Apple does the same thing,

00:48:16 ◼   ► Apple bends its own products to see how bendy they are.

00:48:20 ◼   ► This is thinner than it was before,

00:48:23 ◼   ► is it thinner, is the amount that it's thinner,

00:48:25 ◼   ► 'cause I think it's only like, especially the 11 inches,

00:48:26 ◼   ► around like maybe one or two millimeters thinner

00:48:28 ◼   ► than it used to be, right?

00:48:30 ◼   ► And it's noticeable when you pick it up

00:48:31 ◼   ► from the reports of the people who were there.

00:48:34 ◼   ► Is that change in thickness enough

00:48:36 ◼   ► to change the durability of this?

00:48:38 ◼   ► Because when you see these YouTube channels

00:48:40 ◼   ► that are gonna buy a new iPad Pro and bend it,

00:48:42 ◼   ► take note of whether or not they take

00:48:46 ◼   ► a previous generation iPad Pro and also bend it.

00:48:48 ◼   ► And do they do it on a piece of equipment

00:48:50 ◼   ► that can measure the strength required?

00:48:51 ◼   ► Like, is it worse than the previous one is my question?

00:48:54 ◼   ► And I think a lot of the sensational YouTube videos you see

00:48:56 ◼   ► will not answer that question.

00:48:58 ◼   ► They'll just say, it's bendy, look how easy it is to bend.

00:49:00 ◼   ► Okay, but is this worse than it was before?

00:49:02 ◼   ► Is it better than it was before

00:49:04 ◼   ► because they reinforced it?

00:49:05 ◼   ► We don't know.

00:49:05 ◼   ► But it is somewhat of a concern

00:49:07 ◼   ► because as far as we can tell,

00:49:09 ◼   ► the materials this is made out of

00:49:11 ◼   ► are the same as they have been.

00:49:12 ◼   ► And Apple didn't brag about any,

00:49:15 ◼   ► like every car manufacturer does,

00:49:16 ◼   ► every time there's a new generation of a car,

00:49:18 ◼   ► they will tell you how much increased torsional rigidity

00:49:21 ◼   ► that they frame had.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Apple did not say that about this.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Last time Apple said that was I think with the 6S maybe,

00:49:26 ◼   ► or whenever they fixed the bendy one

00:49:28 ◼   ► before they started making the phone sticker again.

00:49:30 ◼   ► So I'm not against thin iPads.

00:49:33 ◼   ► I think it's great.

00:49:35 ◼   ► I do wonder about the durability,

00:49:38 ◼   ► but I'm certainly not going to try to bend mine.

00:49:40 ◼   ► I treat my iPad so gently,

00:49:41 ◼   ► it's probably not gonna get bent.

00:49:42 ◼   ► But this is something we'll find out.

00:49:44 ◼   ► Someone's gonna buy that 13 inch iPad Pro,

00:49:47 ◼   ► which is the thinnest ever, 5.1 millimeters,

00:49:49 ◼   ► and they're gonna put it in their backpack

00:49:50 ◼   ► with a bunch of books or something,

00:49:52 ◼   ► and they're gonna take it out one day

00:49:53 ◼   ► and it's gonna be bent

00:49:54 ◼   ► and there's gonna be story about it.

00:49:55 ◼   ► And the question will remain,

00:49:57 ◼   ► is it more bendy than the previous 12.9 inch was?

00:50:01 ◼   ► And that is a question that could be answered with science,

00:50:03 ◼   ► but I don't have the science or the money

00:50:07 ◼   ► to bend two iPads to find out the answer to that question.

00:50:09 ◼   ► Presumably Apple does and they're okay with it.

00:50:11 ◼   ► So for now, I would just say, if you buy one of these,

00:50:15 ◼   ► maybe be a little tiny bit extra careful with it.

00:50:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, so 5.1 and 5.3 millimeters

00:50:21 ◼   ► and the iPad Air is seven millimeters.

00:50:23 ◼   ► And as they mentioned during the video,

00:50:26 ◼   ► it is thinner than the iPad Nano.

00:50:30 ◼   ► I almost said iPad there.

00:50:32 ◼   ► And our friend Federico Viticci was in London

00:50:36 ◼   ► at a press event that they had there.

00:50:38 ◼   ► And he had the wherewithal to notice

00:50:40 ◼   ► that the standard Apple Thunderbolt cable

00:50:43 ◼   ► is just barely taller than, or bigger than the,

00:50:48 ◼   ► I presume this is the 13 inch iPad Pro,

00:50:52 ◼   ► which is just bananas that the cable is,

00:50:55 ◼   ► when you include the housing and whatnot,

00:50:57 ◼   ► is bigger than the--

00:50:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, like the plastic grommet,

00:50:59 ◼   ► the plastic little thing that has the little Thunderbolt

00:51:02 ◼   ► symbol on it, a Thunderbolt cable,

00:51:03 ◼   ► that is thicker than the device.

00:51:05 ◼   ► - That's amazing.

00:51:06 ◼   ► - It's just bananas.

00:51:07 ◼   ► - And they're really approaching,

00:51:09 ◼   ► we've talked about this

00:51:10 ◼   ► when they made the transition from lightning.

00:51:11 ◼   ► Now these devices are pushing up against

00:51:14 ◼   ► how thin you can make a device with a USB-C connector on it.

00:51:16 ◼   ► As predicted years ago on past shows,

00:51:19 ◼   ► it's like if they keep getting thinner,

00:51:21 ◼   ► eventually you will hit the limit of USB-C.

00:51:23 ◼   ► And the limit of USB-C is a little,

00:51:25 ◼   ► you'll hit that limit a little bit sooner

00:51:27 ◼   ► than you would have for lightning.

00:51:28 ◼   ► They need to do this, 'cause again,

00:51:30 ◼   ► this is not just the USB-C port, it's a Thunderbolt port,

00:51:32 ◼   ► that's one of the Pro features.

00:51:34 ◼   ► But I feel like there is a limit

00:51:37 ◼   ► on how thin they can make these iPads,

00:51:39 ◼   ► and it's defined by that plug right there.

00:51:42 ◼   ► - Yep, so battery capacity has changed.

00:51:44 ◼   ► In the 11 inch, it's gone up about 10,

00:51:47 ◼   ► a little less than 10%,

00:51:49 ◼   ► but in the 13 inch, it's gone down about 5%,

00:51:52 ◼   ► which is kind of funny.

00:51:53 ◼   ► - And the battery life for all of them

00:51:54 ◼   ► is rated the same as it ever was, which is 10 hours.

00:51:57 ◼   ► So it's interesting how they end up with that.

00:52:00 ◼   ► I don't think the insides of these devices

00:52:03 ◼   ► are different in any way,

00:52:04 ◼   ► other than obviously the big one has a big screen,

00:52:06 ◼   ► which presumably uses more energy.

00:52:08 ◼   ► So it's weird that the, well, I guess,

00:52:11 ◼   ► it's weird that the 11 inch got bigger,

00:52:12 ◼   ► but this is relative to the previous 11 inch,

00:52:14 ◼   ► and the 13 inch got smaller

00:52:15 ◼   ► relative to the previous 13 inch.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Obviously, the 13 inch does have a bigger battery

00:52:19 ◼   ► than the 11 inch, but whatever they're doing,

00:52:21 ◼   ► like I heard from people who were there in person,

00:52:23 ◼   ► like, wow, the 11 inch is so thin,

00:52:25 ◼   ► even though it's like only a millimeter,

00:52:26 ◼   ► you can really feel the difference.

00:52:27 ◼   ► They must have a smaller battery in the 11 inch,

00:52:29 ◼   ► but they don't, they have a bigger battery.

00:52:31 ◼   ► It's the device thinner, and it has a bigger battery,

00:52:33 ◼   ► or at least a battery with more capacity.

00:52:35 ◼   ► I don't know if it's physically larger,

00:52:36 ◼   ► maybe they have a better energy density

00:52:39 ◼   ► with whatever new battery thing they're using,

00:52:41 ◼   ► but don't think just because these are thinner

00:52:43 ◼   ► that they are sacrificing battery life.

00:52:45 ◼   ► They're not, well, they may be sacrificing battery life,

00:52:48 ◼   ► but if they are, it's probably not because of the thickness,

00:52:50 ◼   ► because they actually added battery to the 11 inch.

00:52:53 ◼   ► And the 13 inch, the little one down,

00:52:54 ◼   ► only went down by like 5%.

00:52:56 ◼   ► - The colors are, speaking of, same as it ever was,

00:53:00 ◼   ► they're silver and space black.

00:53:01 ◼   ► I guess maybe that's slightly different than before,

00:53:03 ◼   ► but effectively it's the same as it always was,

00:53:05 ◼   ► as Jason and Mike have talked about on Upgrade many times.

00:53:08 ◼   ► The fancier the device, the less cool the colors get.

00:53:11 ◼   ► Sweet.

00:53:13 ◼   ► But John, I'm just gonna sit back

00:53:15 ◼   ► and let you take this from here.

00:53:17 ◼   ► Ultra Retina XDR, and it's on both sizes, baby.

00:53:21 ◼   ► So how happy are you, John Syracuse?

00:53:24 ◼   ► - I did know that the good screen was gonna come on both,

00:53:27 ◼   ► because that has always been the rumor, and that's great,

00:53:29 ◼   ► because in the previous generation,

00:53:31 ◼   ► the mini LED backlit screen was only on the big size,

00:53:36 ◼   ► and I didn't buy that.

00:53:37 ◼   ► I don't like mini LED, and it wasn't important enough

00:53:39 ◼   ► for me to get a big iPad anyway.

00:53:41 ◼   ► But yeah, it's on both.

00:53:42 ◼   ► It is as was rumored, as we discussed in the last episode.

00:53:45 ◼   ► It's a two-layer OLED.

00:53:48 ◼   ► They call it the tandem OLED, where they take two OLEDs

00:53:50 ◼   ► and they just lay them on top of each other,

00:53:53 ◼   ► so they can run each one at a little bit lower power

00:53:55 ◼   ► to extend its life, but then they get more light output,

00:53:57 ◼   ► because you got, hey, two screens for the price of one.

00:54:00 ◼   ► It's 1,000 nits max for SDR and HDR.

00:54:05 ◼   ► I guess they're saying that's full screen.

00:54:08 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:54:09 ◼   ► I only know how they do these great things

00:54:12 ◼   ► on television ratings.

00:54:13 ◼   ► It's not clear how they're doing it here.

00:54:14 ◼   ► But anyway, a 1,600 nits peak HDR,

00:54:16 ◼   ► which means not probably the whole screen,

00:54:19 ◼   ► those numbers, the 1,600 one may be familiar to you

00:54:22 ◼   ► from what the iPhone OLEDs are rated at

00:54:25 ◼   ► and what the Pro Display XDR is rated at,

00:54:27 ◼   ► and this is kind of like the 10-hour battery life.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Well, Apple has just decided that 1,600 nits peak HDR,

00:54:33 ◼   ► that's good for a while.

00:54:34 ◼   ► So the XDR did that ages ago.

00:54:37 ◼   ► All the MacBook Pros have screens that do 1,600 nits peak HDR

00:54:42 ◼   ► now, and the phones do, and now this thing does.

00:54:45 ◼   ► That's just what they pick,

00:54:46 ◼   ► 'cause you can drive these screens harder

00:54:47 ◼   ► to make them brighter and wear them out sooner,

00:54:49 ◼   ► and so you can kind of pick where that is,

00:54:50 ◼   ► but that's what these are capable of,

00:54:51 ◼   ► and it's all in the family.

00:54:53 ◼   ► The 1,000 nits for SDR is interesting,

00:54:55 ◼   ► because SDR is like when you're looking at your Windows

00:54:58 ◼   ► and your menu bar and stuff like that.

00:54:59 ◼   ► On a Mac or on any other thing, we're just looking at the UI.

00:55:01 ◼   ► The UI is not an HDR unless you do something weird

00:55:04 ◼   ► to force it that way.

00:55:05 ◼   ► And the SDR limits for Apple stuff

00:55:10 ◼   ► is usually around 500 to 600 nits,

00:55:13 ◼   ► like for the Macs, for the iMac, even for the XDR.

00:55:17 ◼   ► When I'm looking at my XDR now,

00:55:19 ◼   ► nothing on my screen is 1,600 nits,

00:55:21 ◼   ► because it's just UI, there's no HDR in it, right?

00:55:24 ◼   ► And it's probably around, well, at a maximum,

00:55:26 ◼   ► 500 to 600 nits, I don't crank it up that way

00:55:28 ◼   ► like Marco does, but anyway. (laughs)

00:55:30 ◼   ► This iPad's go to 1,000 in SDR,

00:55:33 ◼   ► and this is the feature of televisions as well,

00:55:35 ◼   ► where they're like, okay, the actual limit for SDR,

00:55:39 ◼   ► for standard definition, like before the age of HDR,

00:55:41 ◼   ► like back in the '70s or '80s or whatever,

00:55:43 ◼   ► how bright or television's supposed to be,

00:55:45 ◼   ► like what was the mastering monitors they were using,

00:55:47 ◼   ► it's so incredibly dim by modern standards

00:55:49 ◼   ► that nobody would run into that.

00:55:50 ◼   ► So it has been a feature of televisions for ages

00:55:53 ◼   ► to say you can watch non-HDR content, like your local news,

00:55:57 ◼   ► and you can turn the brightness up

00:55:59 ◼   ► so that it'll be much brighter

00:56:01 ◼   ► than it's quote-unquote supposed to be.

00:56:03 ◼   ► For a portable device, that's an important feature,

00:56:07 ◼   ► so you can see the screen outdoors, basically,

00:56:08 ◼   ► like they're not going to show it at like 300 or 200 nits

00:56:11 ◼   ► or some thing that's like what you would expect

00:56:14 ◼   ► like in a dark room,

00:56:16 ◼   ► you'd wanna look at a computer monitor.

00:56:17 ◼   ► You want it to be able to go brighter.

00:56:19 ◼   ► So allowing the UI to go up to 1,000 nits,

00:56:22 ◼   ► essentially it's a software change or whatever,

00:56:25 ◼   ► is a feature for outdoor viewability.

00:56:27 ◼   ► Again, I don't know if this is full screen

00:56:30 ◼   ► or some portion of the screen on televisions.

00:56:32 ◼   ► For power reasons, it is very, very often the case

00:56:36 ◼   ► that a very like 10% of the screen can light up

00:56:39 ◼   ► to some huge number and 100% of the screen can light up

00:56:41 ◼   ► to that number divided by like 10 or 20, right?

00:56:44 ◼   ► Hope that's not the case on these screens,

00:56:46 ◼   ► but honestly, I don't care that much

00:56:47 ◼   ► because I don't spend my time while looking

00:56:48 ◼   ► at 100% white images filling the entire screen

00:56:52 ◼   ► at maximum brightness, that's pointless,

00:56:54 ◼   ► unless you're using it as a flash.

00:56:56 ◼   ► There are new resolutions on these screens.

00:56:59 ◼   ► The pixels per inch is still 264,

00:57:01 ◼   ► the same as it's always been.

00:57:03 ◼   ► The 11 inch one gets 32 extra pixels in width,

00:57:08 ◼   ► woo, compared to the old one.

00:57:10 ◼   ► And the 13 inch one gets 20 pixels in width

00:57:13 ◼   ► and 16 pixels at height.

00:57:15 ◼   ► This is not a feature, like obviously this is so small

00:57:18 ◼   ► you can't even see it, these pixels are very small.

00:57:20 ◼   ► It's just, this is the part they got.

00:57:22 ◼   ► I don't know how they came to this decision,

00:57:23 ◼   ► but it is relevant for software developers

00:57:25 ◼   ► if you have some kind of pixel perfect layout,

00:57:26 ◼   ► but honestly you shouldn't.

00:57:28 ◼   ► Size classes have been around for ages,

00:57:29 ◼   ► flexible layouts have been around for ages,

00:57:31 ◼   ► but just FYI, these screens, these iPad Pro OLED,

00:57:35 ◼   ► tandem OLEDs are not the same size

00:57:38 ◼   ► as any previous iPad screens.

00:57:41 ◼   ► And they're slightly bigger, which is fine.

00:57:45 ◼   ► You do have a nano texture glass option,

00:57:48 ◼   ► and we will start getting into the portionification

00:57:51 ◼   ► of the iPad at this stage.

00:57:53 ◼   ► Nano texture is a feature that was available

00:57:54 ◼   ► on the Pro Display XDR ages ago,

00:57:57 ◼   ► it's also on the studio display.

00:57:59 ◼   ► It's basically like a matte screen,

00:58:00 ◼   ► but instead of making the matte screen

00:58:02 ◼   ► by putting like a piece of plastic over it

00:58:03 ◼   ► or something or whatever, they take the glass,

00:58:05 ◼   ► the normal glossy glass and they microscopically etch it

00:58:09 ◼   ► so the glass is like, if you looked at it in a microscope,

00:58:12 ◼   ► it's like rough instead of smooth,

00:58:13 ◼   ► and they do this to make reflections more diffuse

00:58:17 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:58:17 ◼   ► I personally do not like nano texture,

00:58:22 ◼   ► and I'm glad about that because it was a $1000 option

00:58:24 ◼   ► on my already expensive screen.

00:58:26 ◼   ► I don't know how much it actually costs

00:58:29 ◼   ► to make nano texture.

00:58:30 ◼   ► There's maybe like the gold mine of profit margins for Apple,

00:58:32 ◼   ► but Apple has always charged a huge amount for it.

00:58:34 ◼   ► They charge less on the studio display proportionally

00:58:37 ◼   ► than they do the XDR, which makes you think

00:58:38 ◼   ► it's just like, it's gotta be almost pure profit for them,

00:58:40 ◼   ► but who knows?

00:58:41 ◼   ► Nano texture is an option on both of these iPads,

00:58:45 ◼   ► but the only way you get access to that option

00:58:48 ◼   ► is if you buy the WiSAC package,

00:58:51 ◼   ► I'm pronouncing that wrong probably,

00:58:53 ◼   ► ViSAC package?

00:58:54 ◼   ► Porsche has these option packages

00:58:56 ◼   ► that if you want any of the good stuff,

00:58:57 ◼   ► you gotta buy the big option package, right?

00:58:59 ◼   ► You can't just get nano texture,

00:59:01 ◼   ► 'cause nano texture is you just add like what,

00:59:02 ◼   ► $100, $200, whatever it is,

00:59:05 ◼   ► but no, you can't even get nano texture

00:59:07 ◼   ► unless you buy one of the iPads

00:59:10 ◼   ► that has one or two terabytes of storage.

00:59:12 ◼   ► And what relation does storage have to the nano texture?

00:59:15 ◼   ► None.

00:59:15 ◼   ► None whatsoever. (laughing)

00:59:17 ◼   ► It's totally unrelated.

00:59:19 ◼   ► But if you want nano texture,

00:59:20 ◼   ► if you want the privilege of paying

00:59:21 ◼   ► a couple hundred extra bucks for nano texture,

00:59:23 ◼   ► you have to pay up to what, $600 more

00:59:28 ◼   ► from going from the base to,

00:59:30 ◼   ► I think it's $100 for nano texture plus $600

00:59:32 ◼   ► to go to the one terabyte model from 256.

00:59:35 ◼   ► So the nano texture option is essentially

00:59:38 ◼   ► a $700 option starting from the base model.

00:59:41 ◼   ► And that's rough.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Again, I don't care 'cause I don't like nano texture.

00:59:45 ◼   ► I don't think people should get nano texture.

00:59:47 ◼   ► And there are a lot of open questions about nano texture

00:59:49 ◼   ► because nano texture on the XDR,

00:59:50 ◼   ► when it first came out, people were like,

00:59:52 ◼   ► "Oh, if you get the nano texture on the XDR,

00:59:54 ◼   ► "make sure you don't touch your screen

00:59:55 ◼   ► "'cause it's really hard to get fingerprints off

00:59:57 ◼   ► "because you have to clean it with Apple special cloth

01:00:00 ◼   ► "and you can't use any microfiber cloth.

01:00:02 ◼   ► "You have to use Apple special ones."

01:00:03 ◼   ► I think it's mostly BS,

01:00:04 ◼   ► but if you use a low quality microfiber, it might be bad.

01:00:06 ◼   ► But if you get finger grease on it, it's hard to clean off.

01:00:10 ◼   ► You can't use certain cleaners, don't use abrasive things.

01:00:12 ◼   ► You can mess it up.

01:00:13 ◼   ► And because it is such a micro textured finish,

01:00:16 ◼   ► I believe you could mess it up

01:00:18 ◼   ► if you used anything even mildly abrasive.

01:00:20 ◼   ► And by messing it up,

01:00:21 ◼   ► it would essentially permanently smudge your screen

01:00:24 ◼   ► by making it unevenly rough

01:00:26 ◼   ► because you will have disturbed

01:00:28 ◼   ► the evenly rough nano texture to surface

01:00:30 ◼   ► with like an abrasive paper towel or something

01:00:33 ◼   ► and made it unevenly rough.

01:00:35 ◼   ► Nano texture has always terrified me.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Anyway, Apple is now selling touch devices

01:00:40 ◼   ► that you're supposed to touch when you use it.

01:00:41 ◼   ► Forget about don't quit your finger.

01:00:43 ◼   ► You're supposed to touch it with nano texture on them.

01:00:46 ◼   ► I don't know if it's the same nano texture

01:00:47 ◼   ► that's on their screens.

01:00:48 ◼   ► I don't know if they've tested it and they say it's fine.

01:00:50 ◼   ► Finger grease is fine.

01:00:51 ◼   ► It does come with the little special microfiber cloth,

01:00:55 ◼   ► which I think is just a high quality microfiber cloth.

01:00:57 ◼   ► But I personally would not recommend

01:01:00 ◼   ► buying any of these devices with nano texture

01:01:02 ◼   ► if you are at all concerned about

01:01:06 ◼   ► fingerprint smudges and cleaning the screen.

01:01:08 ◼   ► Wait a week, wait a month.

01:01:09 ◼   ► See what the deal is with nano texture.

01:01:11 ◼   ► Is it okay to have a nano texture screen

01:01:13 ◼   ► that you get fingerprints all over?

01:01:14 ◼   ► Is it not a big deal?

01:01:15 ◼   ► Or is there some sort of problem?

01:01:17 ◼   ► Because this is the very first one of these

01:01:18 ◼   ► that has existed.

01:01:19 ◼   ► And unlike an XDR where you can just be disciplined

01:01:21 ◼   ► and say, I just won't touch it,

01:01:22 ◼   ► that's not an option with the iPad.

01:01:24 ◼   ► I guess if you use the Apple Pencil everywhere,

01:01:26 ◼   ► you could do it.

01:01:26 ◼   ► But even with the Apple Pencil,

01:01:27 ◼   ► I'm like, do I wanna rub the Apple Pencil

01:01:29 ◼   ► against my nano texture screen?

01:01:31 ◼   ► Apple has obviously tested this

01:01:32 ◼   ► and I'm sure they're gonna say everything's fine.

01:01:35 ◼   ► But I am personally super nervous about nano texture,

01:01:38 ◼   ► which is why I'm absolutely definitely not getting it

01:01:39 ◼   ► on any thing that Apple ever sells me

01:01:41 ◼   ► and certainly not on iPad.

01:01:43 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:01:45 ◼   ► - So how do you really feel about it, Jon?

01:01:47 ◼   ► - I'm happy about the screens.

01:01:48 ◼   ► The specs look great.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Color reproduction looks reasonable.

01:01:51 ◼   ► I'm happy the 1600 nits,

01:01:53 ◼   ► you know, like everything looks good about the screen.

01:01:56 ◼   ► I'm happy with the battery life, the thickness.

01:01:58 ◼   ► Like they put a double layer screen in there

01:02:00 ◼   ► that gets way brighter

01:02:01 ◼   ► and it's got the same 10 hours of battery life.

01:02:03 ◼   ► Like thumbs up.

01:02:05 ◼   ► Like this, from what I want from this thing,

01:02:09 ◼   ► it's looking pretty good.

01:02:10 ◼   ► - You're happy, but you're less effusive

01:02:13 ◼   ► than I thought you would be.

01:02:14 ◼   ► I mean, you've been waiting for this for a few years now.

01:02:16 ◼   ► Aren't we like overjoyed?

01:02:17 ◼   ► Like I expect to see you or hear you running around the room

01:02:20 ◼   ► screaming to the rooftops how excited you are

01:02:21 ◼   ► and I'm not getting that from you.

01:02:22 ◼   ► - Well, when I get it, I'll see how amazing it is.

01:02:26 ◼   ► But yeah, no, there are things to modify my happiness

01:02:30 ◼   ► that we will get to shortly.

01:02:31 ◼   ► - This is just how Jon sounds when he's excited.

01:02:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is what Jon sounds like

01:02:35 ◼   ► when he's really excited.

01:02:36 ◼   ► - There are some things that are not as exciting about this.

01:02:40 ◼   ► Setting aside the nanotexture thing, which we'll get to.

01:02:42 ◼   ► Obviously this works with Apple Pencil Pro,

01:02:44 ◼   ► but not the Apple Pencil 2 because of the landscape camera.

01:02:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, just like, you know,

01:02:49 ◼   ► just before we leave the screen,

01:02:50 ◼   ► like I think the screen is a huge part of the Pro story.

01:02:55 ◼   ► It is, by all accounts, a really great screen.

01:03:00 ◼   ► And you know, what they've had to do with, you know,

01:03:02 ◼   ► the dual layers to make it.

01:03:04 ◼   ► There is no question, like, we are all going to just be

01:03:09 ◼   ► waiting and waiting and waiting for these screens

01:03:11 ◼   ► to come to the other products in their lineup.

01:03:13 ◼   ► Like we cannot wait for the screen to come to a MacBook Pro.

01:03:15 ◼   ► We cannot wait for the screen to come,

01:03:17 ◼   ► maybe eventually to a desktop-sized monitor.

01:03:19 ◼   ► Like, this is gonna be like the thing we're waiting for

01:03:22 ◼   ► 'cause it is, by all accounts, just such an amazing screen.

01:03:26 ◼   ► So I'm really happy to see, like, they are still

01:03:30 ◼   ► leading the industry in really good screens.

01:03:32 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, it's the Samsung screen or whatever.

01:03:34 ◼   ► Like, people always attribute this to Apple.

01:03:35 ◼   ► Apple App's not making this screen.

01:03:36 ◼   ► They're just, but yeah, this--

01:03:37 ◼   ► - Well, no one else is selling 'em.

01:03:38 ◼   ► Like, I don't see anyone else doing it.

01:03:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, they have the power of the money

01:03:42 ◼   ► to say we want a screen that works like this.

01:03:44 ◼   ► I mean, companies have been trying to do these dual layer

01:03:47 ◼   ► OLEDs for a long time and it's been very difficult

01:03:49 ◼   ► and Apple's gonna, you know, Apple gets the good stuff first

01:03:51 ◼   ► 'cause they pay the money, right?

01:03:52 ◼   ► So they, you know, and I do hope this expands

01:03:55 ◼   ► to other products and to review for the people

01:03:58 ◼   ► who don't know why we care about OLED,

01:03:59 ◼   ► I heard Gurbron Dithering say he was looking for blooming

01:04:02 ◼   ► and didn't see it.

01:04:03 ◼   ► You're not gonna see blooming in OLED.

01:04:05 ◼   ► Like, the reason we are excited about OLEDs

01:04:07 ◼   ► is because each individual pixel lights up individually.

01:04:10 ◼   ► And you may think, isn't that how all screens work?

01:04:12 ◼   ► I have an iPad and each individual pixel lights up.

01:04:14 ◼   ► Well, LCD screens are done with a backlight

01:04:16 ◼   ► where there are lights behind the pixels

01:04:19 ◼   ► and then like color filters of various kinds

01:04:21 ◼   ► that color it or whatever.

01:04:22 ◼   ► But the lights behind the pixels are not one pixel in size.

01:04:25 ◼   ► The lights behind the pixels are huge compared to pixels.

01:04:28 ◼   ► There's often like, you know, there's millions of pixels

01:04:30 ◼   ► but there's like a few hundred backlight regions of,

01:04:34 ◼   ► you know, the backlights are like one inch by one inch

01:04:36 ◼   ► or one centimeter by one centimeter.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Huge number of pixels, especially retina resolution

01:04:40 ◼   ► are behind that.

01:04:41 ◼   ► And so the like the worst case scenario for that

01:04:43 ◼   ► is like a star field in space.

01:04:46 ◼   ► It's perfectly black with these pinpoints of stars.

01:04:49 ◼   ► Each little pinprick of stars is a couple of little pixels

01:04:52 ◼   ► at very high brightness.

01:04:53 ◼   ► On an LCD display, on a quote, mini LED display,

01:04:57 ◼   ► you have to light up the backlight region

01:04:59 ◼   ► behind each one of the stars.

01:05:01 ◼   ► The star is a pinprick,

01:05:03 ◼   ► but the backlight is like one centimeter by one centimeter

01:05:05 ◼   ► or one inch by one inch

01:05:07 ◼   ► or like whatever size the backlight regions are.

01:05:09 ◼   ► You have to light up that entire thing behind that pinprick.

01:05:12 ◼   ► So what you end up with is the blackness of space,

01:05:16 ◼   ► pinpricks of light, but around each pinprick of light,

01:05:18 ◼   ► there's like a little,

01:05:19 ◼   ► you can even see the shape of the backlight region sometimes.

01:05:21 ◼   ► It's like a little square glowing, right?

01:05:23 ◼   ► And for years, manufacturers have been trying to figure out

01:05:25 ◼   ► how can we make it so you can't see the backlight

01:05:29 ◼   ► behind that because LCDs can't block all the light.

01:05:31 ◼   ► Like when you turn off the, when you make an LCD black

01:05:34 ◼   ► and you tell it block all the light from the backlight,

01:05:36 ◼   ► they block as much as they can, but they can't block at all.

01:05:38 ◼   ► And that light that leaks through

01:05:40 ◼   ► where it's not supposed to be there,

01:05:42 ◼   ► where there's supposed to be black space,

01:05:43 ◼   ► but now there's gray space,

01:05:45 ◼   ► that is bloom around those pinpoints of light or whatever.

01:05:49 ◼   ► OLED doesn't have that problem.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Every individual pixel in OLED lights up all by itself.

01:05:53 ◼   ► There's no backlight region.

01:05:54 ◼   ► There's no how many different regions of backlights,

01:05:56 ◼   ► how many individual backlights.

01:05:57 ◼   ► There's essentially one backlight for every pixel.

01:06:00 ◼   ► That's why we love OLED.

01:06:01 ◼   ► There is no blooming in OLED

01:06:02 ◼   ► other than the natural blooming of a pinprick of light

01:06:05 ◼   ► when you look up at the sky and you see a star.

01:06:07 ◼   ► It is a point source

01:06:08 ◼   ► because you can just light up that one pixel.

01:06:11 ◼   ► That's why everyone goes gaga over OLED.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Our phones are OLED.

01:06:14 ◼   ► You can buy OLED televisions.

01:06:16 ◼   ► There are OLED screens on laptops and so on.

01:06:18 ◼   ► And this is Apple's introduction

01:06:19 ◼   ► to larger than iPhone size OLEDs.

01:06:23 ◼   ► And of course, OLEDs burn in.

01:06:24 ◼   ► So now they've got a dual layer one

01:06:25 ◼   ► where you can run them at lower power

01:06:27 ◼   ► to hopefully combat burn in

01:06:28 ◼   ► and you can make it very bright and very colorful.

01:06:30 ◼   ► And so anyway, yeah, this is a great screen.

01:06:33 ◼   ► As I said last episode,

01:06:34 ◼   ► I think this will be the best screen Apple has ever made.

01:06:36 ◼   ► I think Apple itself made that pitch.

01:06:38 ◼   ► And like Margot said,

01:06:40 ◼   ► that means we want screens like this to be on all our devices

01:06:43 ◼   ► assuming they don't have any bad burn in problems.

01:06:46 ◼   ► But again, we'll find that out as these enter the market.

01:06:48 ◼   ► - What is the, I should know this, but I do not.

01:06:51 ◼   ► What is the longevity for OLED?

01:06:53 ◼   ► Because don't they eventually,

01:06:55 ◼   ► it's organic light emitting diodes, right?

01:06:58 ◼   ► So something--

01:06:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, every time you use a pixel,

01:07:00 ◼   ► it wears down a little bit.

01:07:02 ◼   ► - Cool.

01:07:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I mean, ideally what you want to happen

01:07:05 ◼   ► and the television does as well,

01:07:07 ◼   ► as they wear down,

01:07:09 ◼   ► they do like essentially a compensation cycle

01:07:10 ◼   ► where there's like a computer

01:07:12 ◼   ► that figures out how much each one has worn down

01:07:14 ◼   ► and it tries to level them because they could say,

01:07:15 ◼   ► okay, this one is worn out,

01:07:16 ◼   ► so we got to give it a little more power than that one.

01:07:18 ◼   ► They want to make it so that it's even,

01:07:20 ◼   ► but inevitably what happens is over time,

01:07:22 ◼   ► if even this, if these compensations are working perfectly,

01:07:26 ◼   ► the max, if you just put the whole screen being white,

01:07:29 ◼   ► that will just slowly get dimmer over time

01:07:30 ◼   ► 'cause you will be slowly wearing out the pixels.

01:07:32 ◼   ► What you want is for it to get dimmer uniformly

01:07:34 ◼   ► and not have like the logo

01:07:36 ◼   ► that's in the corner of the screen burned in or whatever.

01:07:38 ◼   ► Like that's what the compensation cycles are trying to do,

01:07:41 ◼   ► but yeah, they wear it over time,

01:07:42 ◼   ► but they'll, and OLED should last

01:07:45 ◼   ► the normal usage lifetime of an iPad.

01:07:48 ◼   ► I mean, look at our phones, like same deal.

01:07:49 ◼   ► We've had OLED phones for years and years, right?

01:07:52 ◼   ► And if you buy like a five-year-old phone,

01:07:54 ◼   ► maybe you could detect some kind of like, you know,

01:07:56 ◼   ► image retention, burn in, worn out pixels or whatever,

01:07:58 ◼   ► but in general, they work,

01:08:00 ◼   ► OLED phones work until nobody wants to buy them anymore,

01:08:02 ◼   ► right, until they're so old that they're obsolete.

01:08:04 ◼   ► So the same should be true of the screen, fingers crossed.

01:08:08 ◼   ► No promises though.

01:08:09 ◼   ► All right, so let's talk performance.

01:08:14 ◼   ► There were some rumors,

01:08:15 ◼   ► which I think we discussed last week,

01:08:17 ◼   ► that, oh, you know what?

01:08:18 ◼   ► This might have the M4.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And when I first heard this, I was like, "NFW."

01:08:22 ◼   ► And then after hearing a bunch of our friends

01:08:25 ◼   ► talk about it on various shows,

01:08:26 ◼   ► and if we talked about it, I was like,

01:08:27 ◼   ► "Well, I'm still really skeptical, but maybe."

01:08:32 ◼   ► And so sure enough, Tim Millett comes up and says,

01:08:36 ◼   ► "We're going to 4, M4 time,

01:08:38 ◼   ► "and this is the second generation 3-nanometer technology.

01:08:43 ◼   ► "And I'm just going to step aside

01:08:44 ◼   ► "and give you back the floor, John Syracuse,

01:08:46 ◼   ► "so tell us about this, please."

01:08:48 ◼   ► - N3e, they didn't say it in the show,

01:08:50 ◼   ► but the closest they're gonna get

01:08:51 ◼   ► to having a slide that says N3e,

01:08:53 ◼   ► because yeah, that's second gen 3-nanometer technology

01:08:56 ◼   ► from TSMC.

01:08:57 ◼   ► And as we said last week with the rumors of this,

01:09:00 ◼   ► once the iPad model numbers and the part number things

01:09:03 ◼   ► were dug out, like iPad model numbers

01:09:05 ◼   ► were dug out of iPad OS 17.5 beta.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Right, that's hard evidence.

01:09:11 ◼   ► And you could say, "Well, you don't know

01:09:13 ◼   ► "that they're gonna keep the numberings."

01:09:14 ◼   ► They were increasing the numbers by one for each M1, right?

01:09:18 ◼   ► And they skipped over M3,

01:09:19 ◼   ► and so that was pretty much hard evidence.

01:09:20 ◼   ► So like with so many of these things,

01:09:23 ◼   ► it's a rumor, you don't know, maybe, kind of.

01:09:26 ◼   ► And then as the date approaches of the announcement,

01:09:29 ◼   ► things solidify.

01:09:30 ◼   ► And since we had the luxury of recording

01:09:31 ◼   ► just one week before the event, they had solidified,

01:09:35 ◼   ► pretty much, I really expected to see M4,

01:09:37 ◼   ► and lo and behold, we did.

01:09:39 ◼   ► What is the M4?

01:09:41 ◼   ► Apple says it has 28 billion transistors.

01:09:43 ◼   ► To give a comparison, the M3 has 25 billion transistors.

01:09:47 ◼   ► So this does have more transistors than the M3,

01:09:50 ◼   ► not by a lot, but it's different.

01:09:52 ◼   ► So if you just think this was,

01:09:53 ◼   ► "Oh, this is just the M3, but on the M3e process,"

01:09:56 ◼   ► it's not, it's a different SOC, as we'll see

01:09:59 ◼   ► as we go on here.

01:10:00 ◼   ► And again, the M3 is the comparison,

01:10:02 ◼   ► because the M3 Pro has 37 billion,

01:10:05 ◼   ► and the M3 Max has 92 billion.

01:10:07 ◼   ► So this is the little one, just the plain old M4,

01:10:10 ◼   ► no suffix.

01:10:11 ◼   ► It does have 128 gigabits per second memory bandwidth,

01:10:15 ◼   ► which is up from 100 on the M3, M2, and M1.

01:10:19 ◼   ► So this is a bump.

01:10:21 ◼   ► We went three generations of the plain M series chips,

01:10:24 ◼   ► so they all had 100 gigabytes per second,

01:10:25 ◼   ► now we're up to 120.

01:10:27 ◼   ► They're either using faster RAM, or,

01:10:29 ◼   ► I mean, that's what it's gotta be.

01:10:30 ◼   ► I think there's like a LPDDR standard

01:10:32 ◼   ► that's slightly faster.

01:10:33 ◼   ► So that's good.

01:10:34 ◼   ► So we've made, it's kind of like a,

01:10:36 ◼   ► the first generation of LEAP in the baseline,

01:10:39 ◼   ► smallest M series chip memory bandwidth.

01:10:42 ◼   ► It has a new display engine,

01:10:43 ◼   ► which Apple didn't elaborate on.

01:10:44 ◼   ► I imagine it's, I don't even know.

01:10:47 ◼   ► Like, they didn't say,

01:10:48 ◼   ► "Oh, we need this new display engine

01:10:49 ◼   ► "to drive the two layers of the screen."

01:10:51 ◼   ► Maybe that's true.

01:10:52 ◼   ► I would imagine there's some display firmware

01:10:54 ◼   ► that does that, and they don't have to.

01:10:55 ◼   ► I don't even know what they mean.

01:10:56 ◼   ► But anyway, new display engine.

01:10:58 ◼   ► There's a new media engine,

01:10:59 ◼   ► which is like the thing that does the H.264 and H.265

01:11:02 ◼   ► and ProRes decoding and encoding and stuff.

01:11:04 ◼   ► Apple didn't really talk about that,

01:11:06 ◼   ► but if you look at the specs,

01:11:08 ◼   ► only the M4 models say hardware accelerated 8K,

01:11:12 ◼   ► H.264, blah, blah, blah,

01:11:14 ◼   ► that 8K is only in the specs for the M4 ones.

01:11:17 ◼   ► So I guess the other ones couldn't do hardware accelerated 8K.

01:11:19 ◼   ► They had to fall back to software or something.

01:11:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:11:21 ◼   ► But anyway, it does have a new media engine.

01:11:23 ◼   ► So that's good.

01:11:24 ◼   ► And that's also good because M1, M2, M3,

01:11:28 ◼   ► whenever someone tested any computer with that thing in it,

01:11:32 ◼   ► and they do like, "Let's see how fast it can encode

01:11:36 ◼   ► or decode H.264,"

01:11:38 ◼   ► that was just running on the media engine.

01:11:39 ◼   ► It didn't matter how many CPU cores it had,

01:11:42 ◼   ► how good the GPU was.

01:11:43 ◼   ► There's dedicated hardware in these SOCs

01:11:45 ◼   ► to do stuff like H.264 encoding and decoding, right?

01:11:49 ◼   ► And that dedicated hardware has not gotten faster

01:11:53 ◼   ► or better that quickly.

01:11:54 ◼   ► I'm not sure if it's changed at all from the M1 to the M3,

01:11:57 ◼   ► but it has changed in the M4,

01:11:59 ◼   ► kind of like the memory bandwidth.

01:12:00 ◼   ► This may be, I can't say this for certain,

01:12:02 ◼   ► but this may be the first time

01:12:04 ◼   ► that the media engine hardware decoder encoder thing

01:12:08 ◼   ► has gotten substantially faster.

01:12:10 ◼   ► At a certain point in the presentation,

01:12:14 ◼   ► I figured who it was, but the person on screen said,

01:12:17 ◼   ► "The M4 has up to four performance cores."

01:12:19 ◼   ► And I said, "Wait, what now?"

01:12:21 ◼   ► (both laughing)

01:12:22 ◼   ► "Up to four performance cores?"

01:12:24 ◼   ► Anyway, and six efficiency cores.

01:12:27 ◼   ► And so the M3 had four performance cores

01:12:29 ◼   ► and four efficiency cores.

01:12:30 ◼   ► So you got two new efficiency cores,

01:12:32 ◼   ► same number of performance cores compared to the M3.

01:12:35 ◼   ► Are these the same cores as the M3?

01:12:37 ◼   ► Well, Apple says that the M4 cores have,

01:12:41 ◼   ► all the cores in the M4 come with quote,

01:12:44 ◼   ► "Next generation ML accelerators."

01:12:47 ◼   ► Not the neural engine, not the GPU,

01:12:50 ◼   ► the CPU cores all have next generation ML accelerators.

01:12:54 ◼   ► I have no idea what that means,

01:12:56 ◼   ► but what it does mean is these cores are not the same

01:12:58 ◼   ► as the M3 cores.

01:12:59 ◼   ► The power cores aren't the same,

01:13:01 ◼   ► the efficiency cores aren't the same.

01:13:03 ◼   ► They're probably similar in size.

01:13:04 ◼   ► They probably have a close to the similar of transistors,

01:13:07 ◼   ► but they are different enough

01:13:08 ◼   ► that they have whatever the hell that is.

01:13:10 ◼   ► I'm sure we'll find out as time goes on,

01:13:13 ◼   ► but just to be clear.

01:13:14 ◼   ► And then Apple throughout this entire presentation

01:13:16 ◼   ► does the thing that they love to do,

01:13:17 ◼   ► which is only slightly more justified in this case,

01:13:19 ◼   ► which is let's compare it not to its predecessor,

01:13:23 ◼   ► but to its predecessor minus one,

01:13:25 ◼   ► which makes some sense in this one

01:13:27 ◼   ► because there's never been an M3 iPad.

01:13:28 ◼   ► So what are you gonna compare it to?

01:13:29 ◼   ► You're gonna compare it to the iPad Pro that it's replacing

01:13:32 ◼   ► and the one that's replacing came with an M2.

01:13:33 ◼   ► So they say it's 60% faster than the M2.

01:13:36 ◼   ► And as we always say when we talk about Apple's comparisons

01:13:41 ◼   ► to multiple generations old, people are like,

01:13:44 ◼   ► well, that just makes sense 'cause people have old stuff.

01:13:46 ◼   ► No, not everyone has the latest and greatest.

01:13:48 ◼   ► We wanna know how fast it is compared to the old thing

01:13:50 ◼   ► that most people have.

01:13:51 ◼   ► And I will explain again our reasoning.

01:13:53 ◼   ► It's not that we think everyone has to have

01:13:55 ◼   ► the newest stuff.

01:13:56 ◼   ► It's because what you wanna know,

01:13:57 ◼   ► at least if you're kind of a tech nerd enthusiast is,

01:14:01 ◼   ► is this the one to buy?

01:14:02 ◼   ► Is this a year where we make a big leap?

01:14:04 ◼   ► Is this a really good one?

01:14:06 ◼   ► And the way to know that is how big a leap is this one

01:14:11 ◼   ► over the one that came before it?

01:14:12 ◼   ► And again, the one that came before it is M2.

01:14:14 ◼   ► I understand that, but just talking about the M4 as an SOC,

01:14:18 ◼   ► like is M4 just like barely better than the M3

01:14:23 ◼   ► or is it twice as good as the M3, right?

01:14:26 ◼   ► Even if you don't have an M3, what you wanna know is,

01:14:29 ◼   ► is this the year we make a big leap?

01:14:30 ◼   ► Is this a good one to buy?

01:14:32 ◼   ► I haven't bought an iPad in six years.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Is this the year for me to buy?

01:14:35 ◼   ► Because we've just made a big leap.

01:14:37 ◼   ► Like you don't wanna buy,

01:14:38 ◼   ► if you've been waiting years and years to buy a new one,

01:14:40 ◼   ► you don't wanna buy when they come up with a model

01:14:41 ◼   ► that's 1% better than the previous one.

01:14:43 ◼   ► You wanna wait for that year when it's 5% or 10% or 20%

01:14:46 ◼   ► because it gives you the most bang for your buck.

01:14:49 ◼   ► That's the point of the comparison with the predecessor.

01:14:53 ◼   ► And again, I know the predecessor only had an M2

01:14:56 ◼   ► but there never was an M3 iPad

01:14:57 ◼   ► so it makes this a little bit tricky.

01:14:58 ◼   ► But there are devices that have M3s in them.