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ATP

587: No Dots Are Going to Help Me

 

00:00:00 ◼   ► I am so happy to be back in the ScanSnap world.

00:00:05 ◼   ► - I wasn't aware that you left it.

00:00:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, where were you when you weren't

00:00:08 ◼   ► in the ScanSnap world?

00:00:09 ◼   ► - So this is the line of Fujitsu, well now,

00:00:13 ◼   ► what I learned is that, 'cause I headed by a new one today,

00:00:15 ◼   ► what I learned is that they've now rebranded as Ricoh.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I guess Ricoh probably bought Fujitsu,

00:00:19 ◼   ► or somehow bought their assets of that business or whatever.

00:00:21 ◼   ► There's a little note in the box that they've rebranded

00:00:24 ◼   ► due to ownership changing or whatever.

00:00:27 ◼   ► But so now, what was Fujitsu ScanSnap is now Ricoh ScanSnap.

00:00:31 ◼   ► And anyway, so I briefly mentioned on the show,

00:00:35 ◼   ► probably something like three or four years ago,

00:00:38 ◼   ► when I had first moved out to the beach during early COVID,

00:00:42 ◼   ► I needed some kind of document scanner like I have always

00:00:45 ◼   ► used, Fujitsu had gone kind of a while without any major

00:00:49 ◼   ► updates, and there was this new one that I had gotten ads

00:00:52 ◼   ► for all over the place called Raven.

00:00:55 ◼   ► What I liked about it was that it was standalone,

00:00:56 ◼   ► like Fujitsu had always kind of been annoyed that I had

00:01:00 ◼   ► to run their software on my Mac to make anything work,

00:01:03 ◼   ► and the Raven scanner was one of those many products,

00:01:06 ◼   ► like we were just talking about with the R1,

00:01:08 ◼   ► was one of those many products where it's just an Android

00:01:11 ◼   ► tablet that happens to be bolted into a scanner body,

00:01:14 ◼   ► and so it's this whole touchscreen on the front that very

00:01:16 ◼   ► slowly would navigate you through whatever scanning

00:01:19 ◼   ► operations it had, and it was literally just an Android

00:01:21 ◼   ► touchscreen, and when it would do software updates,

00:01:24 ◼   ► you'd even see the Android logo,

00:01:26 ◼   ► it was a very thinly veiled Android touchscreen.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Anyway, it was fine, the touchscreen was very slow,

00:01:34 ◼   ► it was very annoying having to wait for your scanner

00:01:36 ◼   ► to boot for like 45 seconds every time you wanted to use it,

00:01:40 ◼   ► like it was kind of an annoyingly slow product,

00:01:42 ◼   ► I wasn't that happy with it.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Eventually I brought my ScanSnap to the beach,

00:01:49 ◼   ► and everything was better.

00:01:50 ◼   ► Now I'm in the new Long Island house, and I need a scanner,

00:01:54 ◼   ► and I pull out the Raven out of storage,

00:01:56 ◼   ► and I plug it in, it's acting a little weird,

00:01:59 ◼   ► turns out they're gone, they're out of business,

00:02:01 ◼   ► and their entire scanner basically has stopped working,

00:02:04 ◼   ► even though it was never that fast to begin with,

00:02:06 ◼   ► now it's extraordinarily slow and throws a bunch of errors

00:02:08 ◼   ► and can't really do anything because the company's

00:02:09 ◼   ► basically gone, and most of the web backend appears to be

00:02:13 ◼   ► either absent or barely functional.

00:02:15 ◼   ► - Wait, seriously, 'cause raven.com, is this not it?

00:02:18 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm looking at it right now.

00:02:19 ◼   ► - Click on any link on the page.

00:02:21 ◼   ► - Help Center, hmm.

00:02:22 ◼   ► SSL version or Cypher mismatch, says Chrome.

00:02:25 ◼   ► Downloads, oh no, that exists.

00:02:26 ◼   ► But no, I take your point though.

00:02:28 ◼   ► So this is mostly defunct.

00:02:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, so that's gone, and today I'm going through

00:02:33 ◼   ► all these, I was going through a month and a half of mail,

00:02:37 ◼   ► once I had been accumulating on my desk,

00:02:39 ◼   ► as we've been doing all this house stuff,

00:02:40 ◼   ► I'm like, I really want a scanner,

00:02:42 ◼   ► and Amazon had the latest ScanSnap for same delivery,

00:02:44 ◼   ► I'm like, great, done.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Back to ScanSnap, let me tell you, it is glorious.

00:02:49 ◼   ► So now, ScanSnap has fully standalone WiFi models,

00:02:53 ◼   ► where you don't have to install their weird software

00:02:55 ◼   ► on your Mac, you can just have it scanned

00:02:57 ◼   ► directly to a Dropbox folder or whatever.

00:02:59 ◼   ► It's so fast, it's so good, it's a lot smaller,

00:03:03 ◼   ► and folds up nicer than the Raven, also,

00:03:05 ◼   ► so happy to be back in the ScanSnap world,

00:03:07 ◼   ► even though now it is apparently the Ricoh ScanSnap world.

00:03:10 ◼   ► But it is still as good as ever when you get a new one

00:03:13 ◼   ► and set it up as WiFi only.

00:03:14 ◼   ► - You know, it's interesting to me,

00:03:16 ◼   ► I don't scan everything, and I keep a lot more paper

00:03:19 ◼   ► than I probably need to and/or should,

00:03:22 ◼   ► but I probably should go more in this direction

00:03:24 ◼   ► with my life, this, I presume, does what I would think of

00:03:27 ◼   ► as duplex scanning, maybe that's not the right term for it.

00:03:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, it scans both sides at the same time,

00:03:31 ◼   ► very, and it just shoots them through,

00:03:33 ◼   ► like it has an automatic feeder,

00:03:35 ◼   ► so it's sucking the paper in, one by one by one,

00:03:37 ◼   ► ScanScanScan, and it's amazingly fast.

00:03:40 ◼   ► Like, it is, you know, these are a few hundred dollars,

00:03:42 ◼   ► it is overkill for what many people need,

00:03:45 ◼   ► but once you get used to this style of document scanner,

00:03:49 ◼   ► where it just looks like a little inkjet printer

00:03:50 ◼   ► and it just shoots them through,

00:03:52 ◼   ► rather than having like a giant flatbed thing

00:03:54 ◼   ► that might have a feeder on top, maybe,

00:03:56 ◼   ► like this kind is so much faster and so much better,

00:03:59 ◼   ► and what it does is, you know,

00:04:01 ◼   ► you stick a stack of paper in it, you hit go,

00:04:04 ◼   ► and it scans them all into OCR'd PDF files.

00:04:08 ◼   ► - Oh, that's fancy.

00:04:11 ◼   ► - So this is not the right tool for the job

00:04:13 ◼   ► if you were trying to like scan your old photo negatives,

00:04:16 ◼   ► or like it doesn't, I think you might be able to,

00:04:19 ◼   ► like you can scan photos with it,

00:04:21 ◼   ► but it's not very good for it,

00:04:22 ◼   ► it's not super high resolution,

00:04:24 ◼   ► and it doesn't have a lot of the more advanced

00:04:25 ◼   ► like color options that a flatbed scanner

00:04:28 ◼   ► would have for scanning photos.

00:04:29 ◼   ► If what you wanna do is scan paper

00:04:31 ◼   ► to get it out of your life,

00:04:32 ◼   ► get a ScanSnap and get a shredder.

00:04:34 ◼   ► It's a continuous operation from one to the other,

00:04:36 ◼   ► the paper is then gone from your life.

00:04:39 ◼   ► It is wonderful, it scans everything to PDFs,

00:04:42 ◼   ► and it goes right to Dropbox, no software, it's fantastic.

00:04:45 ◼   ► It is a great way to get paper as much out of your life

00:04:49 ◼   ► as it can, because like the reality is,

00:04:51 ◼   ► like I love, you know, whenever we talk about printers

00:04:54 ◼   ► or scanners, we hear from the young people,

00:04:58 ◼   ► and the same people are like,

00:05:00 ◼   ► I haven't written a check in my entire life.

00:05:03 ◼   ► And it's like, okay, well that's wonderful.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Unfortunately you do occasionally still have to write checks.

00:05:08 ◼   ► I had to write one to a plumber literally three days ago.

00:05:10 ◼   ► Like it's not a common action,

00:05:12 ◼   ► but I do still have to write checks sometimes.

00:05:14 ◼   ► Similarly, I still have to deal with paper sometimes.

00:05:17 ◼   ► I get mail, I'm an adult, I get envelopes,

00:05:19 ◼   ► I have to deal with them,

00:05:20 ◼   ► sometimes it's some kind of important document

00:05:21 ◼   ► that I need to hold onto in some form.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Like I get paper, I have to deal with it.

00:05:25 ◼   ► I also use a printer to print things sometimes.

00:05:27 ◼   ► Like so, even though we are in this modern tech life

00:05:30 ◼   ► where we have this notion of like,

00:05:32 ◼   ► I don't even need cash anymore, I don't even need a wallet,

00:05:34 ◼   ► like I just have my phone, everything's on my phone,

00:05:36 ◼   ► I don't even need paper, or like,

00:05:38 ◼   ► that's a wonderful theory and some people

00:05:40 ◼   ► are able to do that.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Most people in the world still need these legacy technologies

00:05:45 ◼   ► like paper and cash and checks.

00:05:47 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:05:48 ◼   ► You just need these sometimes.

00:05:49 ◼   ► And so it's really very satisfying as a technologist

00:05:53 ◼   ► to have really good tools to deal with the paper

00:05:57 ◼   ► in your life.

00:05:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I totally get that.

00:05:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I have a HP printer that is very old

00:06:02 ◼   ► and I like it just fine, it has a scanner on it.

00:06:05 ◼   ► And it's not a bespoke, super fast scanner,

00:06:09 ◼   ► it doesn't scan duplex or anything like that.

00:06:10 ◼   ► But it has a scanner and one of the things

00:06:12 ◼   ► I really like about it is this particular printer

00:06:14 ◼   ► can scan to a Samba share, to a network share.

00:06:18 ◼   ► And so I like to do that and I'm sure I could work around

00:06:21 ◼   ► whatever the ScanSnap does if it doesn't support that.

00:06:24 ◼   ► - Well I can tell you, if you install

00:06:26 ◼   ► the ScanSnap desktop software and connect it via USB

00:06:28 ◼   ► instead of WiFi, you can do all sorts of stuff.

00:06:31 ◼   ► Then you can do automations and all sorts of stuff.

00:06:34 ◼   ► There is that option available to you.

00:06:36 ◼   ► I just prefer to have it be standalone

00:06:38 ◼   ► and not have the software on my computer anymore.

00:06:40 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:06:42 ◼   ► - So we need to do a little bit of happy housekeeping.

00:06:44 ◼   ► There is a new member special.

00:06:47 ◼   ► And for those of all six of you that enjoyed

00:06:49 ◼   ► our prior show, "Neutral," well, we've sort of kind of done

00:06:53 ◼   ► a new episode and for everyone else,

00:06:54 ◼   ► I guess you can just ignore it.

00:06:55 ◼   ► But we did ATP neutral colon car shopping.

00:07:00 ◼   ► And this was an idea or a seed of an idea that I had

00:07:04 ◼   ► that Jon has watered and sprouted

00:07:06 ◼   ► into a full-fledged episode.

00:07:08 ◼   ► And Jon, do you want to give us a nickel tour

00:07:10 ◼   ► of what you came up with?

00:07:12 ◼   ► - Sure, the idea is something we often discuss on the show,

00:07:14 ◼   ► which is basically if your current car

00:07:16 ◼   ► are poofed out of existence and you had to get a new one,

00:07:18 ◼   ► what would you get?

00:07:19 ◼   ► And then when we were talking about the topic,

00:07:21 ◼   ► we were talking about how many different parameters

00:07:23 ◼   ► you can put on that.

00:07:24 ◼   ► And in typical ATP fashion, we decided to answer

00:07:27 ◼   ► the question subject to a large set of parameters.

00:07:30 ◼   ► So we didn't just answer it once,

00:07:31 ◼   ► we answered it many times over,

00:07:33 ◼   ► starting off fairly practical

00:07:34 ◼   ► and ending being somewhat absurd.

00:07:36 ◼   ► So if you want to hear us ruminate

00:07:38 ◼   ► on what we would personally get to satisfy the needs of cars

00:07:42 ◼   ► or the wants of cars in our life,

00:07:44 ◼   ► if we had to get a car right now,

00:07:46 ◼   ► that's what we talk about.

00:07:47 ◼   ► And yeah, we did a whole podcast of that, believe it or not.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Not just talking about car buying, we talked about cars.

00:07:52 ◼   ► But anyway.

00:07:53 ◼   ► - So you can go and check the show notes if you remember,

00:07:57 ◼   ► just to see if any of the links there tickle your fancy

00:08:00 ◼   ► and you can skip around and listen.

00:08:02 ◼   ► I really enjoyed it, I thought it was a lot of fun.

00:08:04 ◼   ► It was funny seeing where the three of us agreed

00:08:07 ◼   ► and as you would expect, where all of us disagreed.

00:08:10 ◼   ► But nevertheless, it was a fun episode.

00:08:12 ◼   ► So you can consider this, what was this,

00:08:14 ◼   ► the 14th episode of "Neutral"?

00:08:15 ◼   ► I forget where we left off.

00:08:16 ◼   ► - Something like that.

00:08:17 ◼   ► - So it's the spiritually 14th episode of "Neutral".

00:08:20 ◼   ► And John, if you weren't a member, what do you have to do?

00:08:24 ◼   ► - Go to atp.fm/join and I will add,

00:08:27 ◼   ► if one of us, well, all right,

00:08:29 ◼   ► if I or Casey ever get a new car,

00:08:31 ◼   ► we'll probably do another member special about it.

00:08:33 ◼   ► We can't keep up that pace with Marco's car buying.

00:08:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:36 ◼   ► His new car, as we'll just mention on this show.

00:08:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, it'll just be, oh, Marco got another new car.

00:08:41 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

00:08:43 ◼   ► All right, let's do some follow-up.

00:08:45 ◼   ► And we gotta talk about the Crush ad

00:08:48 ◼   ► because Apple has officially and formally apologized for it.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Reading from the Verge, "Apple has apologized

00:08:54 ◼   ► "after a commercial meant to showcase its brand new iPad Pro

00:08:56 ◼   ► "drewed widespread criticism among the creative community.

00:08:59 ◼   ► "In a statement provided to Ad Age,

00:09:01 ◼   ► "Tor Maran, Apple's Vice President of Marketing,

00:09:03 ◼   ► "said the company quote unquote missed the mark.

00:09:05 ◼   ► "The full quote is, 'Creativity is in our DNA at Apple

00:09:08 ◼   ► "'and it's incredibly important to us to design products

00:09:10 ◼   ► "'that empower creatives all over the world.

00:09:11 ◼   ► "'Our goal is to always celebrate the myriad of ways

00:09:14 ◼   ► "'users express themselves and bring their ideas

00:09:16 ◼   ► "'to life through iPad.'

00:09:17 ◼   ► "We missed the mark with this video and we're sorry."

00:09:20 ◼   ► So yeah, our bad.

00:09:23 ◼   ► And then Charlie Chapman added on Mastodon,

00:09:24 ◼   ► "Pour one out for the ad director

00:09:26 ◼   ► "shooting the WWDC opening video right now

00:09:27 ◼   ► "showing a thousand developers being squeezed

00:09:29 ◼   ► "by a car crusher into the new Xcode AI."

00:09:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:09:33 ◼   ► Well done, well done.

00:09:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, luckily they have time to cancel that now,

00:09:37 ◼   ► but yeah, I hope they don't.

00:09:38 ◼   ► Because that is, we'll talk about WWDC when WWDC arrives,

00:09:42 ◼   ► but the AI sauce that they're pouring or everything,

00:09:45 ◼   ► surely some of that sauce will be poured over our Xcode.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Anytime AI these days is said in association

00:09:53 ◼   ► with the thing that you do for a living,

00:09:55 ◼   ► it makes people nervous.

00:09:56 ◼   ► - All right, we had some feedback.

00:09:59 ◼   ► Well, we actually had a lot of feedback

00:10:00 ◼   ► with regard to your AppleCare+ conundrum

00:10:03 ◼   ► with your educationally discounted iPad.

00:10:07 ◼   ► And Carter Sanderson was one of the first,

00:10:10 ◼   ► or perhaps the most eloquent of all the ones we got.

00:10:12 ◼   ► I don't know why John picked this particular one,

00:10:14 ◼   ► but you get the prize, Carter.

00:10:15 ◼   ► And Carter writes, "The reason John only had the option

00:10:17 ◼   ► "to purchase the two years upfront AppleCare+

00:10:19 ◼   ► "in the EDU store is because the AppleCare+

00:10:21 ◼   ► "is also discounted, not just the iPad itself.

00:10:24 ◼   ► "John could have had his cake and eaten it too

00:10:26 ◼   ► "after the two years when the AppleCare expires

00:10:29 ◼   ► "there's a 30 day window in which you can enroll

00:10:30 ◼   ► "in a monthly AppleCare and continue paying

00:10:33 ◼   ► "as long as you'd like.

00:10:34 ◼   ► "This is actually slightly more bang for your buck

00:10:36 ◼   ► "even without the educationally discounted AppleCare.

00:10:39 ◼   ► "Alas, it's too late to fix it now

00:10:41 ◼   ► "because once AppleCare is canceled,

00:10:42 ◼   ► "it can never be added back with the exception

00:10:43 ◼   ► "of the 30 day grace period mentioned above."

00:10:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, and Apple has a document

00:10:47 ◼   ► about extending your AppleCare+ coverage.

00:10:49 ◼   ► I believe this wasn't always the case,

00:10:51 ◼   ► that there was some point in the past of AppleCare

00:10:54 ◼   ► where if you got the two year one,

00:10:55 ◼   ► you didn't have the option to add month to month after,

00:10:57 ◼   ► but I could be misremembering that.

00:10:59 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah, I just end up paying full price.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Like I said, I could just return

00:11:03 ◼   ► and get the EDU price or whatever,

00:11:05 ◼   ► but I'm not going to because it's too much of a hassle.

00:11:09 ◼   ► - No argument there.

00:11:10 ◼   ► I don't recall where this was stated,

00:11:12 ◼   ► but I did hear or read Jason saying something

00:11:15 ◼   ► with regard to the nanotexture glass.

00:11:17 ◼   ► I think it was mostly John,

00:11:18 ◼   ► but maybe all of us were wondering,

00:11:20 ◼   ► hey, how does that work since the prior example

00:11:23 ◼   ► of nanotexture glass, which is the studio display,

00:11:27 ◼   ► or not, what is it, Cinema Display Studio?

00:11:28 ◼   ► - Pro Display. - Pro Display.

00:11:29 ◼   ► - What's the R and Studio Display?

00:11:30 ◼   ► - I couldn't get it right.

00:11:31 ◼   ► Anyways, those displays, Apple made it very clear

00:11:34 ◼   ► that you aren't supposed to touch them.

00:11:35 ◼   ► You have to use the special bespoke rag to clean it.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And Jason says the nanotexture glass

00:11:40 ◼   ► is an entirely different process on the iPad.

00:11:42 ◼   ► It's a chemical etch that's designed

00:11:44 ◼   ► to survive greasy fingers and Apple Pencils.

00:11:46 ◼   ► - So there you have it.

00:11:47 ◼   ► At the very least, Apple is saying,

00:11:49 ◼   ► this is not the same thing.

00:11:50 ◼   ► We use the same name for it as we do,

00:11:52 ◼   ► but this one stands up to fingers and pencils,

00:11:54 ◼   ► and we'll surely find out if that is the case.

00:11:57 ◼   ► - Moving right along, with regard to thinness

00:12:00 ◼   ► and durability on the iPad, Arun Maini,

00:12:04 ◼   ► forgive me, I'm not entirely sure

00:12:05 ◼   ► what the correct pronunciation is.

00:12:06 ◼   ► Anyway, he is a very big YouTuber.

00:12:09 ◼   ► He interviewed John Ternus and Greg Joswiak,

00:12:11 ◼   ► presumably at the top of the Tribeca apartment loft thing

00:12:14 ◼   ► that they have in New York, but one way or another.

00:12:17 ◼   ► This is, I think, strewn across four different tweets.

00:12:21 ◼   ► But Arun asks, "Years ago, we had a phase

00:12:23 ◼   ► "where every company was trying to cut

00:12:25 ◼   ► "every millimeter off of phones,

00:12:26 ◼   ► "and then that became an unpopular opinion,

00:12:28 ◼   ► "and now we are going super thin with the tablet."

00:12:31 ◼   ► To which Greg Joswiak replied,

00:12:33 ◼   ► "Sometimes I think what you saw

00:12:35 ◼   ► "when people were reacting poorly

00:12:36 ◼   ► "to what some other device manufacturers were doing

00:12:38 ◼   ► "when they were making them thinners

00:12:39 ◼   ► "that they were making them less capable.

00:12:41 ◼   ► "They were giving poor battery life

00:12:42 ◼   ► "or less features or poor quality.

00:12:44 ◼   ► "We engineer our products to last

00:12:46 ◼   ► "for years and years and years,

00:12:48 ◼   ► "so we don't tend to make those compromises

00:12:50 ◼   ► "that others make to do those sorts of changes.

00:12:51 ◼   ► "We love to defy physics, if you will,

00:12:53 ◼   ► "and figure out how to make things smaller and lighter

00:12:55 ◼   ► "and make them that much better as well."

00:12:57 ◼   ► - There's such a marketing guy answer when he says,

00:12:59 ◼   ► "You know what some other people were doing

00:13:01 ◼   ► "when they were making them thinner?

00:13:02 ◼   ► "They were making them less capable

00:13:04 ◼   ► "and giving them bad battery life."

00:13:05 ◼   ► And Arun should have interrupted and said,

00:13:06 ◼   ► "No, no, I was referring to the iPhone 6 that bent.

00:13:10 ◼   ► "You guys made that one."

00:13:11 ◼   ► And by the way, it also had bad battery life

00:13:13 ◼   ► because it was so thin because the battery was thin.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Anyway, just to clarify, that's what I was referring to.

00:13:17 ◼   ► I wasn't referring to what, quote,

00:13:18 ◼   ► "other device manufacturers did

00:13:20 ◼   ► "when they made their devices thinner."

00:13:21 ◼   ► In fact, I'm not sure other device manufacturers

00:13:24 ◼   ► really were as obsessed as Thinness's Apple

00:13:25 ◼   ► was back in the days, but by all means,

00:13:27 ◼   ► frame this as something that other device manufacturers did

00:13:30 ◼   ► because that's why you get paid the big bucks, Jaws.

00:13:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was trying to figure out

00:13:33 ◼   ► what other products could he have been talking about.

00:13:36 ◼   ► I couldn't go up in the water.

00:13:37 ◼   ► - I mean, I'm sure there were.

00:13:38 ◼   ► I'm sure, that's the thing about this.

00:13:40 ◼   ► I'm sure there were.

00:13:41 ◼   ► I'm sure his statement is accurate.

00:13:43 ◼   ► It just neatly sidesteps the implied context

00:13:46 ◼   ► of the question, which is what marketers do.

00:13:48 ◼   ► So this is a non-sarcastic thumbs up.

00:13:51 ◼   ► I was very impressed by that little spin move.

00:13:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, Jaws is a pro.

00:13:55 ◼   ► - He is a pro, and this is not his first rodeo.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Then with regard to iPad thinness and durability,

00:14:00 ◼   ► John Turnus replied, "The main logic board runs

00:14:03 ◼   ► "right down the center in between the two batteries

00:14:05 ◼   ► "and the iPad Pro.

00:14:06 ◼   ► "That's really helpful from a thermal dissipation standpoint

00:14:09 ◼   ► "so we can spread heat evenly.

00:14:11 ◼   ► "We also have a cowling over the main logic board,

00:14:14 ◼   ► "a metal cover that helps with thermal spreading,

00:14:16 ◼   ► "but also effectively creates a central rib

00:14:19 ◼   ► "that runs through the whole thing

00:14:20 ◼   ► "that tremendously improves the stiffness of the product."

00:14:23 ◼   ► - This is great.

00:14:24 ◼   ► I love hearing about heat.

00:14:26 ◼   ► I love when the Apple says anything about dealing with heat.

00:14:28 ◼   ► It is smart to put the hot thing in the middle

00:14:30 ◼   ► so it can spread from side to side

00:14:31 ◼   ► instead of jamming it all to one side

00:14:32 ◼   ► like the logic board used to be.

00:14:34 ◼   ► That's great.

00:14:35 ◼   ► And the fact that they made a little structure out of it

00:14:36 ◼   ► that makes a little rib that makes it stiffer, that's great.

00:14:39 ◼   ► I'm assuming, I haven't seen the tear downs yet,

00:14:40 ◼   ► but I'm assuming this rib runs the length,

00:14:42 ◼   ► the long length of the iPad, right?

00:14:46 ◼   ► And that's a potentially clever hack

00:14:49 ◼   ► because I think most YouTubers will try to bend it

00:14:51 ◼   ► along the long edge, like to get more leverage,

00:14:54 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:14:55 ◼   ► So that's why they reinforced it

00:14:56 ◼   ► because a big vertical rib going down the middle

00:14:58 ◼   ► doesn't help as much with bending in the other direction,

00:15:00 ◼   ► but I don't think most YouTubers

00:15:02 ◼   ► will bend it in that direction.

00:15:03 ◼   ► So another smart move.

00:15:04 ◼   ► I haven't seen any good bending videos though.

00:15:06 ◼   ► I haven't actually been seeking them out,

00:15:07 ◼   ► but just FYI, Apple has actually done some stuff

00:15:11 ◼   ► with these very thin iPads to address the bending.

00:15:15 ◼   ► - Actually, to that end, did you receive your iPad?

00:15:18 ◼   ► Do you wanna go grab it and bend it now?

00:15:19 ◼   ► - I did not wanna bend it.

00:15:20 ◼   ► I have received it.

00:15:21 ◼   ► In fact, I can give some updates on it

00:15:23 ◼   ► in this next item here.

00:15:25 ◼   ► - Let's try to think, is there a person on Earth

00:15:27 ◼   ► more likely to resist bending?

00:15:29 ◼   ► Jon probably has it in a protective pouch surrounded by--

00:15:34 ◼   ► - I do have a pouch for it, but I--

00:15:36 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

00:15:37 ◼   ► - Of course you do.

00:15:37 ◼   ► - I was the type of person who,

00:15:38 ◼   ► when I took it out of the whatever cellophane

00:15:42 ◼   ► that they wrap it in or whatever,

00:15:43 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, be careful not to put any fingerprints

00:15:46 ◼   ► on the side that I'm never gonna see

00:15:47 ◼   ► because the case will be covering it.

00:15:49 ◼   ► You know what I mean, like the backside?

00:15:50 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:51 ◼   ► 'Cause why put a fingerprint there?

00:15:53 ◼   ► Just put a fingerprint there and then cover it

00:15:54 ◼   ► with the case for three years?

00:15:55 ◼   ► No, oh my God.

00:15:57 ◼   ► - All right, so you are a Smart Folio fan.

00:16:00 ◼   ► Now, if you would please,

00:16:02 ◼   ► because their names mean nothing to me,

00:16:04 ◼   ► can you remind me exactly what the Smart Folio is?

00:16:07 ◼   ► This is not a keyboard, is that right?

00:16:09 ◼   ► - It's not a keyboard, it's not a trackpad,

00:16:11 ◼   ► it's not anything.

00:16:12 ◼   ► It's just a thing that puts some flat, gummy,

00:16:14 ◼   ► protective material on both sides of the iPad.

00:16:17 ◼   ► They've had this product ever since they went

00:16:19 ◼   ► to the flat-sided iPad Pro.

00:16:22 ◼   ► It's just like, it makes a little sandwich out of it.

00:16:23 ◼   ► I like it because it protects it.

00:16:25 ◼   ► And also the top part of it is like in three segments

00:16:28 ◼   ► and you can like fold it into like a little triangular

00:16:30 ◼   ► shape tube type thing to prop up your iPad.

00:16:34 ◼   ► And when they talked about the product in the event video,

00:16:37 ◼   ► they said, and the new iPad Pro Smart Folio,

00:16:41 ◼   ► you know, supports more angles or something,

00:16:44 ◼   ► I looked at the pictures of it and I'm like,

00:16:45 ◼   ► it looks exactly like my existing Smart Folio.

00:16:47 ◼   ► I don't understand the angles thing.

00:16:49 ◼   ► But when I got my Smart Folio case,

00:16:51 ◼   ► which came like two days after we recorded

00:16:53 ◼   ► before the iPad. - Of course.

00:16:54 ◼   ► - You could see a picture on the back of the box

00:16:57 ◼   ► that showed how the angles worked.

00:16:58 ◼   ► And now that I actually have my iPad as well,

00:17:00 ◼   ► I put it in the Smart Folio

00:17:01 ◼   ► and it does indeed work that way.

00:17:03 ◼   ► So you can make the little triangle behind it

00:17:04 ◼   ► when it's in like landscape mode

00:17:06 ◼   ► and it's kind of mostly upright,

00:17:08 ◼   ► but tilted back away from you a little bit.

00:17:10 ◼   ► Well, now there's three different positions

00:17:12 ◼   ► that you can put it in.

00:17:14 ◼   ► There's like kind of the middle position,

00:17:15 ◼   ► which is the same as the one and only position

00:17:17 ◼   ► with the previous iPad Pro Smart Folio.

00:17:20 ◼   ► And then there's one that's farther back

00:17:21 ◼   ► and one that's farther up.

00:17:23 ◼   ► And this is great for me because when I use,

00:17:26 ◼   ► like I said, I use the Smart Folio to prop my iPad up

00:17:28 ◼   ► when I watch TV with it in bed,

00:17:30 ◼   ► which is the main thing that I do with my iPad, right?

00:17:32 ◼   ► And very often the little triangle

00:17:34 ◼   ► is not quite at the right angle for me.

00:17:37 ◼   ► So I like prop it up by like putting my finger

00:17:38 ◼   ► underneath the back of it,

00:17:40 ◼   ► or I smush the pillow that it's on or whatever.

00:17:42 ◼   ► And this is great, I don't want it to do that anymore.

00:17:43 ◼   ► I can just pick one of three possible angles,

00:17:45 ◼   ► which again, I'm pretty sure one of them is more tilted

00:17:48 ◼   ► and one of them is less tilted.

00:17:49 ◼   ► So I can't wait to use this.

00:17:51 ◼   ► I just got my iPad Pro today,

00:17:52 ◼   ► so I haven't done anything with it other than set it up,

00:17:54 ◼   ► which is a whole other story.

00:17:56 ◼   ► We probably don't have time to get into it,

00:17:57 ◼   ► but suffice it to say that process is still not smooth.

00:18:00 ◼   ► And I did put it in the case and I did prop it up

00:18:04 ◼   ► and I did try out the pencil and stuff like that.

00:18:06 ◼   ► But anyway, I'm looking forward to using this for real

00:18:09 ◼   ► to watch some video probably tomorrow night.

00:18:12 ◼   ► - This is relevant, but earlier today I saw a reel

00:18:15 ◼   ► from MKBHD on Instagram and MKBHD seems to have

00:18:18 ◼   ► a kind of happy, funny obsession with magnets.

00:18:22 ◼   ► And he has, I forget the name for it,

00:18:24 ◼   ► but this like greenish blackish like film

00:18:26 ◼   ► that will show magnetic fields,

00:18:28 ◼   ► where we kind of show magnets effectively.

00:18:30 ◼   ► And he has this reel where he puts this on the back

00:18:33 ◼   ► of the prior gen iPad Pro in the new one.

00:18:36 ◼   ► And I'm doing this off memory,

00:18:37 ◼   ► but I believe on the new one,

00:18:39 ◼   ► there's like either a series of magnets

00:18:41 ◼   ► or kind of like a rib, if you will,

00:18:44 ◼   ► of magnets where this smart folio can connect.

00:18:47 ◼   ► So that's what gives it, I think,

00:18:48 ◼   ► some of the extra like stops or the way he described it,

00:18:52 ◼   ► it almost sounded like it was infinite.

00:18:53 ◼   ► I'm not trying to say that's the case.

00:18:55 ◼   ► It's just, that's kind of what it sounded like.

00:18:56 ◼   ► But it's worth checking out this like minute and a half reel

00:19:00 ◼   ► just to see where these magnets are.

00:19:01 ◼   ► 'Cause he has a pretty good diagram of it at the end too.

00:19:04 ◼   ► So I'll put that in the show notes.

00:19:05 ◼   ► - Hold on, I'm gonna ding his team for in the end,

00:19:07 ◼   ► they had a, like, and here's where all the magnets are.

00:19:08 ◼   ► And the magnets didn't show the ribs

00:19:10 ◼   ► that he was talking about in the main video.

00:19:11 ◼   ► So slight miss there.

00:19:12 ◼   ► - Oh, whoops.

00:19:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, but anyway, yeah, it's not,

00:19:14 ◼   ► having used the thing, there's three distinct positions.

00:19:17 ◼   ► You can feel them, like there's basically three sets

00:19:19 ◼   ► of magnets where the little back thing attaches to

00:19:21 ◼   ► and they're, you know, low, medium and high.

00:19:23 ◼   ► So, but yeah, I give it a great,

00:19:25 ◼   ► unexpected advantage of this iPad.

00:19:28 ◼   ► And it really does feel thinner,

00:19:29 ◼   ► but of course when you put the cover on it,

00:19:30 ◼   ► it gets a lot thicker real quick.

00:19:32 ◼   ► The one thing I will say though,

00:19:33 ◼   ► is I do have Procreate and I do have the pencil

00:19:36 ◼   ► and I did try the barrel rotation thing

00:19:38 ◼   ► and I could not for the life of me.

00:19:39 ◼   ► - Do a barrel.

00:19:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I could not get it to work.

00:19:41 ◼   ► I have the latest version of Procreate

00:19:43 ◼   ► that's on the App Store,

00:19:44 ◼   ► but I think maybe the version they demoed in the event

00:19:46 ◼   ► is not out yet because they also did

00:19:47 ◼   ► the pencil squeeze thing and squeeze,

00:19:50 ◼   ► and they brought up a menu and squeeze does not bring up

00:19:52 ◼   ► a menu in the current App Store version of Procreate.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Unless I have like a bad CDN or something,

00:19:57 ◼   ► but I did go directly to the Procreate page

00:19:59 ◼   ► in the App Store and it didn't say update.

00:20:00 ◼   ► So I don't know what to tell you, but yeah, the pencil,

00:20:03 ◼   ► the squeezy pencil thing is real great.

00:20:05 ◼   ► The haptics are real nice and gentle,

00:20:07 ◼   ► thumbs up on the pencil as well.

00:20:08 ◼   ► - Very nice.

00:20:09 ◼   ► So we weren't talking about a keyboard,

00:20:13 ◼   ► but now we are because an anonymous genius writes,

00:20:17 ◼   ► in regard to the Smart Folio keyboard,

00:20:19 ◼   ► it was markedly less reliable over time

00:20:22 ◼   ► than the Magic Keyboard.

00:20:22 ◼   ► The wires that connected the keyboard

00:20:24 ◼   ► to the smart connector interface ran through the folds

00:20:26 ◼   ► and over time, the constant folding

00:20:28 ◼   ► and unfolding makes them fail.

00:20:29 ◼   ► I'm a retail technician, so I don't have hard numbers,

00:20:32 ◼   ► but anecdotally, we see way more dead Smart Folios

00:20:35 ◼   ► than Magic Keyboards to the point

00:20:36 ◼   ► that there was a silent repair program

00:20:37 ◼   ► to cover these failures for three years

00:20:39 ◼   ► from purchase on almost all models.

00:20:42 ◼   ► Meanwhile, the Magic Keyboard rarely comes in

00:20:43 ◼   ► for anything other than physical damage or damaged keys.

00:20:46 ◼   ► It's too bad though, the folio was nice and light.

00:20:48 ◼   ► - I mean, to be clear though,

00:20:50 ◼   ► there are other reasons why Apple retail staff

00:20:54 ◼   ► might see a lot more Smart Keyboard folios coming in.

00:20:57 ◼   ► The Magic Keyboard's number one, they cost a lot less

00:20:59 ◼   ► and number two, they've been out for many more years

00:21:01 ◼   ► and so there's probably way more of them out there

00:21:04 ◼   ► in the field and the average age of them is probably higher

00:21:07 ◼   ► compared to the Magic Keyboard,

00:21:08 ◼   ► which is much newer and much more expensive.

00:21:10 ◼   ► So there are other factors there, but that being said,

00:21:13 ◼   ► this is true that the Smart Keyboard folio

00:21:17 ◼   ► did not last very long.

00:21:18 ◼   ► Like I had, I think I had two of them die

00:21:20 ◼   ► over the last whatever, however many years since 2018,

00:21:24 ◼   ► but also the Magic Keyboards don't hold up that well either.

00:21:29 ◼   ► By most people's, at least the Surface

00:21:33 ◼   ► doesn't hold up that well.

00:21:34 ◼   ► They do seem to at least function,

00:21:36 ◼   ► but they seem to age very poorly

00:21:37 ◼   ► in terms of like Surface finishing

00:21:39 ◼   ► and the materials peeling and stuff like that.

00:21:41 ◼   ► So I think that reason alone is not a good enough defense

00:21:46 ◼   ► for why the new Magic Keyboard has seemingly replaced

00:21:51 ◼   ► the need for the Smart Keyboard folio.

00:21:54 ◼   ► I do think that as we're seeing people get them

00:21:56 ◼   ► and some people are posting the comparison photos,

00:21:58 ◼   ► it does look like the decision Apple probably made

00:22:03 ◼   ► for getting rid of the Smart Keyboard folio

00:22:04 ◼   ► is that A, they have replacement that costs more,

00:22:09 ◼   ► and you better believe the Magic Keyboard

00:22:11 ◼   ► does not have only a 30 whatever percent profit margin

00:22:16 ◼   ► to Apple that their main products have.

00:22:18 ◼   ► It probably has a way bigger profit margin than that.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Accessories usually do.

00:22:22 ◼   ► So that's a huge profit center.

00:22:24 ◼   ► Like whenever, when you're selling devices at retail,

00:22:28 ◼   ► you always wanna get the what they call attachment sales.

00:22:30 ◼   ► And this is accessories, warranty plans, stuff like that

00:22:34 ◼   ► that you sell along with the main thing the person came for,

00:22:37 ◼   ► the phone, the iPad, the computer, whatever.

00:22:40 ◼   ► You wanna get those attachment sales

00:22:41 ◼   ► because they have way higher profit margins

00:22:44 ◼   ► than the device itself.

00:22:45 ◼   ► So Apple wants to push people

00:22:47 ◼   ► towards the higher priced product.

00:22:49 ◼   ► So it makes sense that when they,

00:22:50 ◼   ► for the first new line of iPad Pros

00:22:53 ◼   ► that existed after the Magic Keyboard,

00:22:54 ◼   ► they can say, you know what,

00:22:55 ◼   ► we're just not gonna make that merely $200 one.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Now you have to buy the $300 one.

00:23:01 ◼   ► But also the overall bulk with the Magic Keyboard

00:23:05 ◼   ► on the new ones is similar to the overall bulk

00:23:08 ◼   ► with the Smart Keyboard Folio on the old ones.

00:23:10 ◼   ► So the combination of them making way more money

00:23:13 ◼   ► from the Magic Keyboard probably,

00:23:14 ◼   ► and also it being reasonably similarly sized and weighted

00:23:19 ◼   ► to the previous Smart Keyboard Folio combo

00:23:21 ◼   ► probably led them to conclude

00:23:23 ◼   ► we can go without the Smart Keyboard Folio this time.

00:23:25 ◼   ► - Also, even though the Smart Keyboard

00:23:28 ◼   ► or the Magic Keyboard is newer, we'll see.

00:23:30 ◼   ► But thus far, there's no silent three year repair program

00:23:35 ◼   ► for that one.

00:23:36 ◼   ► So I think that speaks to how bad the reliability

00:23:38 ◼   ► must have been that Apple actually had a official program

00:23:41 ◼   ► of replacement extending past when people expected it to.

00:23:44 ◼   ► So it's not just because there's more of them

00:23:46 ◼   ► and because they're older,

00:23:47 ◼   ► but also there was a repair program.

00:23:49 ◼   ► So maybe there'll be a repair program

00:23:50 ◼   ► for the Magic Keyboard as well, but we'll see.

00:23:53 ◼   ► - And I'm reserving judgment

00:23:55 ◼   ► on whether the new Magic Keyboard combo is actually good

00:23:59 ◼   ► until I get a chance to actually operate one.

00:24:00 ◼   ► So I'll go to an Apple store sometime soon

00:24:02 ◼   ► and try to see one in person

00:24:04 ◼   ► because the Smart Keyboard Folio was really a great combo.

00:24:08 ◼   ► That with the 11 inch made such an amazing

00:24:10 ◼   ► ultra portable setup.

00:24:13 ◼   ► And one thing I'm a little scared about is

00:24:15 ◼   ► when I did try the original 11 inch Magic Keyboard

00:24:20 ◼   ► before I very quickly returned it,

00:24:21 ◼   ► but when I did try it, I found that the key layout

00:24:24 ◼   ► was actually more cramped

00:24:26 ◼   ► than the Smart Keyboard Folio keyboard on the 11 inch.

00:24:29 ◼   ► It seemed like a keyboard that was designed

00:24:30 ◼   ► more for the 13 inch iPad

00:24:32 ◼   ► and they kind of wedged it down to the 11,

00:24:35 ◼   ► whereas the Smart Keyboard Folio was great even on the 11.

00:24:39 ◼   ► And I worry that, according to our friends,

00:24:42 ◼   ► like Jason Snell has mentioned this in a couple podcasts,

00:24:44 ◼   ► it seems like the actual keys and key layout

00:24:48 ◼   ► seem to be the same between the new Magic Keyboard

00:24:50 ◼   ► and the old one, or at least roughly the same.

00:24:52 ◼   ► So I'm a little concerned whether the 11 inch

00:24:55 ◼   ► will feel too cramped.

00:24:56 ◼   ► It seems like a slam dunk if you're a 13 inch user,

00:24:58 ◼   ► but for the 11 inch, I still have reservations,

00:25:01 ◼   ► so we'll see.

00:25:02 ◼   ► - Maybe, but I think it's all in the eye of the beholder

00:25:06 ◼   ► to a degree because I have the 11 inch iPad Pro,

00:25:09 ◼   ► the MT1, and I've had this Magic Keyboard

00:25:13 ◼   ► since it was available in I think early 2020.

00:25:16 ◼   ► And I don't find, like it's not spacious, the keyboard,

00:25:20 ◼   ► but I can't remember a time I've been trying to type

00:25:23 ◼   ► and been like, "Oh, son of a gun.

00:25:25 ◼   ► "This thing is so cramped," or anything like that,

00:25:27 ◼   ► which isn't to say that you're wrong.

00:25:28 ◼   ► It isn't to say that Jason's wrong.

00:25:29 ◼   ► It's just I'm used to it, and it's not something

00:25:32 ◼   ► that I find bothersome personally,

00:25:34 ◼   ► so your mileage may vary.

00:25:35 ◼   ► And if you have an Apple store nearby,

00:25:37 ◼   ► I encourage you to give it a shot.

00:25:40 ◼   ► Marco, remind me, maybe we covered this last week

00:25:42 ◼   ► and I completely forgot.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Did the Arment family order any?

00:25:45 ◼   ► Like did Tiff grab one or anything like that?

00:25:47 ◼   ► - No, I asked her 'cause she draws in Procreate a lot,

00:25:49 ◼   ► and I asked her, she still has the M1 13 inch.

00:25:53 ◼   ► I'm just gonna say that instead of 12.9.

00:25:55 ◼   ► I'm gonna retcon that 'cause it's easier.

00:25:57 ◼   ► She still has the M1 13 inch, and I asked her,

00:25:59 ◼   ► "Hey, here's the new features of this new pencil.

00:26:02 ◼   ► "Would that interest you?

00:26:03 ◼   ► "How would that affect you?"

00:26:04 ◼   ► And she said basically, "Yeah, it would be nice

00:26:07 ◼   ► "to have the additional dimension,

00:26:09 ◼   ► "especially the turning of the long nibbed virtual pens

00:26:14 ◼   ► "and stuff like that."

00:26:15 ◼   ► That's kinda what she had in mind.

00:26:17 ◼   ► To have that extra dimension of being able to turn

00:26:19 ◼   ► a shaped tip as you're doing a stroke would be helpful,

00:26:24 ◼   ► but she also said, "I don't really need it that much.

00:26:26 ◼   ► "It's fine."

00:26:27 ◼   ► The Arment family, outside of me being a gadget hand

00:26:32 ◼   ► and wanting everything new constantly,

00:26:34 ◼   ► especially anything Apple makes,

00:26:36 ◼   ► there's really not much drive in my family

00:26:38 ◼   ► for iPad upgrades until and unless one breaks

00:26:42 ◼   ► because we don't push the boundaries.

00:26:44 ◼   ► Which we'll get to in a little bit.

00:26:46 ◼   ► My iPad usage, if I had the new iPad,

00:26:49 ◼   ► would not change at all.

00:26:51 ◼   ► All the things that I can't do on an iPad now,

00:26:54 ◼   ► I wouldn't be able to do with the new one.

00:26:55 ◼   ► And all the times that I would choose to use a Mac

00:26:58 ◼   ► instead of an iPad, the new one wouldn't change that at all.

00:27:01 ◼   ► So, and that's how the whole family's like that.

00:27:02 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, we use iPads for certain things.

00:27:05 ◼   ► None of them are particularly demanding on the hardware,

00:27:08 ◼   ► and so as long as they continue to work, it's fine.

00:27:12 ◼   ► - Yep, that's fair.

00:27:14 ◼   ► All right, Scott writes with regard to Apple stickers,

00:27:17 ◼   ► "I work at a large company where most people

00:27:18 ◼   ► "use Windows PCs.

00:27:19 ◼   ► "While Macs are technically supported,

00:27:21 ◼   ► "getting one requires that your manager approves it

00:27:22 ◼   ► "explicitly and some won't.

00:27:24 ◼   ► "A very important function of Apple stickers

00:27:26 ◼   ► "in this environment is to cover up the Dell logo

00:27:28 ◼   ► "on laptops that belong to people who are protesting

00:27:30 ◼   ► "the injustice of not being granted a Mac."

00:27:32 ◼   ► Well done.

00:27:33 ◼   ► - We actually heard this from a number of people

00:27:35 ◼   ► that apparently it is very common for people

00:27:38 ◼   ► with corporate-owned PCs to put Apple stickers on there,

00:27:42 ◼   ► like Dells and HPs and stuff.

00:27:44 ◼   ► That's incredible.

00:27:45 ◼   ► You know, like if Steve Jobs were still around,

00:27:50 ◼   ► if he saw that, that would be the reason

00:27:52 ◼   ► we wouldn't get stickers anymore.

00:27:54 ◼   ► He would take away the entire sticker program

00:27:56 ◼   ► after seeing one Dell laptop with an Apple sticker on it.

00:27:59 ◼   ► He'd be like, "That's it, no more."

00:28:01 ◼   ► - We're done, cut 'em off.

00:28:02 ◼   ► - 'Cause they'd all be on slightly crooked

00:28:04 ◼   ► and that would drive him insane.

00:28:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, there would be multiple issues.

00:28:06 ◼   ► - You ever see anyone trying to place

00:28:08 ◼   ► a non-symmetrical sticker, hell, even a symmetrical sticker,

00:28:11 ◼   ► in the dead center of the back of a laptop?

00:28:13 ◼   ► It's much harder than you think.

00:28:15 ◼   ► - Wade Tregaskis writes with regard to the M4's

00:28:20 ◼   ► next generation ML accelerators.

00:28:22 ◼   ► The MLX CPU extensions were AMX,

00:28:24 ◼   ► or Apple Matrix Extensions, I assume, starting with the M1.

00:28:28 ◼   ► They're basically custom matrix instructions

00:28:30 ◼   ► as kind of an extension of Neon, which is its own thing.

00:28:33 ◼   ► They were never officially documented,

00:28:35 ◼   ► and I wouldn't be surprised if Apple rejects any apps,

00:28:37 ◼   ► or for their app stores anyway, which use them directly.

00:28:40 ◼   ► As far as I know, officially the only way to use them

00:28:43 ◼   ► is through Apple frameworks.

00:28:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is a pretty good guess

00:28:46 ◼   ► at what those next generation ML accelerators are.

00:28:48 ◼   ► The keyword is next generation,

00:28:50 ◼   ► which shows that they already had ML accelerators,

00:28:51 ◼   ► but these are new ones.

00:28:53 ◼   ► Neon is the ARM SIMD thing,

00:28:55 ◼   ► single instruction, multiple data,

00:28:57 ◼   ► where you take an instruction like add,

00:28:59 ◼   ► and you apply it to like 17 integers

00:29:01 ◼   ► all packed together into a thing or whatever.

00:29:03 ◼   ► So that's the idea.

00:29:04 ◼   ► One instruction, and then you have these really big registers

00:29:06 ◼   ► that hold multiple smaller pieces of data.

00:29:09 ◼   ► Modern CPUs have all had them

00:29:11 ◼   ► since the Altavec and MMX days ages ago.

00:29:14 ◼   ► ARM has them, but apparently Apple

00:29:17 ◼   ► added these AMX instructions,

00:29:19 ◼   ► which are ones that Apple made up for its own SOCs.

00:29:23 ◼   ► And them not officially being part of ARM,

00:29:26 ◼   ► and them not being exposed to the developer,

00:29:28 ◼   ► that gives Apple the flexibility

00:29:30 ◼   ► to change those whenever it feels like,

00:29:32 ◼   ► because the only officially supported way

00:29:34 ◼   ► to get at them is through Apple framework.

00:29:35 ◼   ► So that seems to me probably

00:29:37 ◼   ► what the next generation ML accelerators are.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Which, I mean, you haven't really heard Apple

00:29:42 ◼   ► ever talk about in the M1, M2, or M3,

00:29:45 ◼   ► their ML accelerators in the CPU,

00:29:47 ◼   ► but I guess they were there since the M1.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Max Laves writes, "The Geekbench Core ML NE scores

00:29:53 ◼   ► for the M4 iPad are only incrementally better than the M3,

00:29:57 ◼   ► according to Tom's Hardware."

00:29:58 ◼   ► Quote, "Apple's M3 was rated for 18 trillion operations

00:30:02 ◼   ► per second at floating point 16."

00:30:04 ◼   ► I'm assuming that's what FP stands for,

00:30:05 ◼   ► floating point 16 precision.

00:30:07 ◼   ► But the M4 is rated for 38 trillion operations per second,

00:30:12 ◼   ► but with int8.

00:30:14 ◼   ► That means if equalized to int8 precision,

00:30:17 ◼   ► we're looking at a 5% improvement in total operations,

00:30:21 ◼   ► or excuse me, trillions of operations per second

00:30:23 ◼   ► for the M4 over the M3.

00:30:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I was thinking of

00:30:26 ◼   ► and couldn't remember the details of last time.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Like, oh, that 38 trillion number,

00:30:29 ◼   ► but the previous one was 18,

00:30:30 ◼   ► but I think there was something about 16 versus 32 bit.

00:30:32 ◼   ► No, it turned out it was 16 versus eight bit.

00:30:34 ◼   ► So anyway, same type of deal.

00:30:37 ◼   ► There wasn't this huge leap from 18 to 38 trillion.

00:30:40 ◼   ► It was a smaller leap combined with a different thing

00:30:43 ◼   ► that they were measuring.

00:30:44 ◼   ► So there you have it.

00:30:45 ◼   ► - And then finally, the M4

00:30:48 ◼   ► with one disabled performance core versus the M3

00:30:51 ◼   ► with no disabled performance cores.

00:30:53 ◼   ► Looking at MacRumors and reading from MacRumors,

00:30:55 ◼   ► assuming that the GeekBench 6 listing is accurate,

00:30:58 ◼   ► the M4 with one disabled performance core

00:31:01 ◼   ► is still around 13% faster

00:31:03 ◼   ► than the M3 in multi-core performance

00:31:05 ◼   ► and up to 35% faster than the M2

00:31:07 ◼   ► in the previous generation iPad Pro.

00:31:09 ◼   ► - Yep, this is what we guessed

00:31:10 ◼   ► once we saw the single core GeekBench scores

00:31:12 ◼   ► for the M4 last time.

00:31:13 ◼   ► We're like, oh, maybe an M2 with all the performance cores

00:31:15 ◼   ► will beat it, but no.

00:31:17 ◼   ► The single core and the M4 is ridiculous.

00:31:19 ◼   ► And so, yeah, it can beat all of its predecessors

00:31:22 ◼   ► with one performance core tied behind its back.

00:31:25 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:31:26 ◼   ► All right, so we obviously have a lot of iPad stuff

00:31:30 ◼   ► to discuss, but we have something neat to discuss first.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Apple, what is this, World Accessibility Day?

00:31:35 ◼   ► I think that's today as we record,

00:31:37 ◼   ► or something along those lines, forgive me

00:31:38 ◼   ► if I've gotten the exact name wrong,

00:31:40 ◼   ► but they have announced in honor of that

00:31:42 ◼   ► new accessibility features, including eye tracking,

00:31:45 ◼   ► music, haptics, and vocal shortcuts.

00:31:47 ◼   ► So there were several of these that were announced today,

00:31:51 ◼   ► and Jon has picked out a few.

00:31:53 ◼   ► Now, Jon, I'm happy to read through this if you'd like,

00:31:54 ◼   ► and you can chime in, or do you wanna handle it?

00:31:56 ◼   ► How would you like to proceed?

00:31:57 ◼   ► - You can do it, I'll just comment.

00:31:59 ◼   ► - All right, so let's start with eye tracking,

00:32:00 ◼   ► which is coming to the iPad and the iPhone.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Powered by artificial intelligence,

00:32:04 ◼   ► eye tracking gives users a built-in option

00:32:06 ◼   ► for navigating iPad and iPhone with just their eyes.

00:32:09 ◼   ► Eye tracking uses the front-facing camera

00:32:10 ◼   ► to set up and calibrate in seconds,

00:32:12 ◼   ► and with on-device machine learning,

00:32:13 ◼   ► all data used to set up and control this feature

00:32:15 ◼   ► is kept securely on device and isn't shared with Apple.

00:32:18 ◼   ► Eye tracking works across iPad OS and iOS apps,

00:32:21 ◼   ► and doesn't require additional hardware accessories.

00:32:24 ◼   ► With eye tracking, users can navigate

00:32:25 ◼   ► through the elements of an app,

00:32:26 ◼   ► and use dwell control to activate each element,

00:32:29 ◼   ► accessing additional features, excuse me,

00:32:31 ◼   ► functions such as physical buttons, swipes,

00:32:33 ◼   ► and other gestures solely with their eyes.

00:32:35 ◼   ► Turns out the Vision Pro is feeding back into iOS.

00:32:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, like in the Vision Pro world,

00:32:40 ◼   ► this reads as like, hmm, just really, really makes you think

00:32:44 ◼   ► like, I know that like no additional hardware,

00:32:47 ◼   ► this is an accessibility feature, yada yada.

00:32:50 ◼   ► Like the context of this is just, you know,

00:32:52 ◼   ► another alternate way to control your iPad or iOS device.

00:32:57 ◼   ► But in a world where the Vision Pro exists,

00:32:59 ◼   ► you're like, but this is like the main interface,

00:33:02 ◼   ► or pointing interface anyway, in Vision Pro.

00:33:04 ◼   ► Granted, very different sensors, very different, you know,

00:33:07 ◼   ► it's a different thing.

00:33:09 ◼   ► But I read this and I'm like, you know what?

00:33:12 ◼   ► I think it might be actually kind of neat

00:33:14 ◼   ► to essentially have Vision Pro caliber eye tracking

00:33:18 ◼   ► on an iPad when doing complicated stuff.

00:33:21 ◼   ► Now I imagine that's not possible,

00:33:23 ◼   ► because there's not a thing strapped to my face, you know?

00:33:26 ◼   ► Like it's gotta be using like the camera,

00:33:28 ◼   ► whatever it's using, it's using sensors

00:33:30 ◼   ► that are fewer in number, farther away from my face,

00:33:33 ◼   ► not as expensive, like all that stuff.

00:33:35 ◼   ► So it's probably not nearly as accurate as in the Vision Pro

00:33:38 ◼   ► but I'm intrigued by the idea of having my eyes

00:33:43 ◼   ► as an additional input method on Macs, on iPads,

00:33:46 ◼   ► that just, I would like to see how that could work,

00:33:50 ◼   ► if that technology ever gets good enough

00:33:51 ◼   ► to approach the quality that it exists

00:33:54 ◼   ► in the Vision Pro right now.

00:33:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, that could be very, very interesting.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Music haptics make songs more accessible.

00:34:01 ◼   ► Music haptics is a new way for users who are deaf

00:34:03 ◼   ► or hard of hearing to experience music on iPhone

00:34:04 ◼   ► with this accessibility feature turned on.

00:34:06 ◼   ► The Taptic Engine in iPhone plays taps, textures,

00:34:09 ◼   ► and refined vibrations to the audio of the music.

00:34:11 ◼   ► Super cool.

00:34:12 ◼   ► - That's why everyone should be in their seat

00:34:13 ◼   ► in the sphere, Marco, so they can feel the vibrations.

00:34:16 ◼   ► - It is, honestly, it's a way better experience

00:34:18 ◼   ► when you're sitting down, if you can see.

00:34:20 ◼   ► - I mean, and to that end, again, I read this feature

00:34:22 ◼   ► and yes, you understand the purpose of this,

00:34:24 ◼   ► the accessibility purpose of this is clear.

00:34:27 ◼   ► I think maybe there is usefulness for everybody who,

00:34:31 ◼   ► you know, is it kind of like a subwoofer in your pocket?

00:34:33 ◼   ► Right, like if this could be added to regular music,

00:34:35 ◼   ► it'd probably kill your battery,

00:34:36 ◼   ► but I am also intrigued to try this feature.

00:34:39 ◼   ► - I mean, yeah, 'cause like, so the way the Haptic Engine

00:34:41 ◼   ► works, it's basically a little subwoofer.

00:34:44 ◼   ► It is basically a speaker that just has a very,

00:34:47 ◼   ► very low frequency that it vibrates usually

00:34:51 ◼   ► with, you know, very precise control of like,

00:34:53 ◼   ► okay, we're gonna make it move in and out,

00:34:54 ◼   ► ba-boom, now, you know, like that's one big movement

00:34:57 ◼   ► of what is basically a speaker driver compared to,

00:35:01 ◼   ► you know, what you would do for actually playing music.

00:35:04 ◼   ► You'll be, you know, tons and tons of, you know,

00:35:06 ◼   ► vibrations that are, you know, split second long.

00:35:09 ◼   ► So the Haptic Engine, it can be used more dynamically

00:35:13 ◼   ► to do all sorts of things.

00:35:15 ◼   ► So I haven't, you know, felt this yet or tried this yet

00:35:18 ◼   ► or haven't any details on it besides what's

00:35:20 ◼   ► in the press release, but that's probably how they're

00:35:22 ◼   ► doing it, like some kind of like special,

00:35:24 ◼   ► basically like a special bass version of the music.

00:35:29 ◼   ► Maybe, I don't know if they're filtering out

00:35:30 ◼   ► certain low frequencies or maybe doing beat detection

00:35:33 ◼   ► to like make the beats do like the big vibration moves

00:35:36 ◼   ► in the motor, but however they're doing it,

00:35:38 ◼   ► it's, that's, it is based on, you know, treating it

00:35:42 ◼   ► like a big speaker basically, probably,

00:35:44 ◼   ► and I'm really curious to see what that is.

00:35:47 ◼   ► - Of course, the Haptic Engine is essentially designed

00:35:49 ◼   ► not to move air though, like they want the Haptic Engine

00:35:52 ◼   ► itself to be quiet, but as we know, as we all know

00:35:54 ◼   ► who have a phone, oh, the Haptic Engine is trying

00:35:57 ◼   ► to be quiet, it doesn't have like a speaker cone,

00:35:59 ◼   ► it's not moving air itself, but it does vibrate the device

00:36:03 ◼   ► and if that device itself is in contact with anything

00:36:06 ◼   ► that can become a speaker cone very easily,

00:36:07 ◼   ► have you ever put your phone on top of like a tissue box

00:36:09 ◼   ► and the vibration motor goes off, it turns the whole

00:36:11 ◼   ► tissue box into a speaker, right?

00:36:13 ◼   ► You know, so there is the tension between Apple

00:36:16 ◼   ► probably wants the Haptic Engine to make no noise

00:36:18 ◼   ► on its own, but it does actually have to shake the phone,

00:36:21 ◼   ► so that's why it kind of works as a, you know,

00:36:24 ◼   ► and anything can become a speaker if you shove

00:36:26 ◼   ► a vibrator up to it.

00:36:27 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh, all right, we gotta move on.

00:36:32 ◼   ► There are new features for a wide range of speech.

00:36:35 ◼   ► With vocal shortcuts, iPhone and iPad users

00:36:37 ◼   ► can assign custom utterances that Siri can understand

00:36:40 ◼   ► to launch shortcuts and complete complex tasks.

00:36:44 ◼   ► Listen for Atypical Speech, another new feature,

00:36:46 ◼   ► gives users the option for enhancing speech recognition

00:36:48 ◼   ► for a wider range of speech.

00:36:50 ◼   ► Does that include Mario?

00:36:51 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:52 ◼   ► Listen for Atypical Speech uses on-device machine learning

00:36:55 ◼   ► to recognize user speech patterns designed for users

00:36:58 ◼   ► with acquired or progressive conditions that affect speech,

00:37:01 ◼   ► such as cerebral palsy, amyotropic lateral sclerosis,

00:37:06 ◼   ► or ALS, or stroke.

00:37:08 ◼   ► These features provide a new level

00:37:09 ◼   ► of customization and control.

00:37:11 ◼   ► - You made the comment about Mario, but I ask again,

00:37:13 ◼   ► you know, this is great for accessibility

00:37:15 ◼   ► for all the people who obviously need it,

00:37:16 ◼   ► but for everybody, having it, well, first of all,

00:37:20 ◼   ► the voice shortcuts, that's just played for everybody.

00:37:23 ◼   ► Like, we all want to be able to say different things

00:37:26 ◼   ► to our phones and have it do cool stuff,

00:37:28 ◼   ► and Siri is pretty bad at that,

00:37:29 ◼   ► so this is just good for everybody.

00:37:31 ◼   ► And Atypical Speech, we hear from people who, for example,

00:37:34 ◼   ► speak English with a very thick accent,

00:37:37 ◼   ► that Apple's devices are not great at understanding them,

00:37:40 ◼   ► even when it ostensibly has like a localization

00:37:42 ◼   ► for like Scottish English or whatever.

00:37:44 ◼   ► Atypical Speech-- - Shots fired.

00:37:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I'm saying, like, this is not me saying,

00:37:49 ◼   ► this is people, Scottish people say,

00:37:50 ◼   ► I try to use my Apple devices,

00:37:52 ◼   ► and they don't understand what I'm saying.

00:37:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, you're just asking the questions, Jon.

00:37:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, anyway, calling it Atypical is obviously a,

00:37:59 ◼   ► you know, not the great terminology here,

00:38:02 ◼   ► but all I'm saying is that I'm arguing in favor

00:38:04 ◼   ► of Apple's devices being better at understanding variations

00:38:08 ◼   ► within the same language,

00:38:10 ◼   ► because we all have accents of some kind,

00:38:11 ◼   ► and some of our accents are thicker than others,

00:38:14 ◼   ► and I really feel like, especially in America,

00:38:16 ◼   ► where we have, maybe not as many accents as the UK,

00:38:19 ◼   ► but we have a larger place with more people

00:38:22 ◼   ► who have each kind of accent,

00:38:23 ◼   ► and some of those people may be having trouble

00:38:25 ◼   ► talking to Apple devices, so this is all good.

00:38:28 ◼   ► Apple also, I mean, I don't know if this is

00:38:30 ◼   ► what they're talking about here,

00:38:32 ◼   ► but Apple's also very good, typically,

00:38:34 ◼   ► compared to the rest of the industry

00:38:36 ◼   ► at dealing with speech patterns like stutters,

00:38:38 ◼   ► or very slow speech, or having, like, you know,

00:38:41 ◼   ► a lot of times, like, if you have a stutter,

00:38:43 ◼   ► and it takes you a while to get a sentence out,

00:38:46 ◼   ► a lot of other products will time out,

00:38:47 ◼   ► and they'll, like, you know,

00:38:48 ◼   ► they'll try to answer your partial question,

00:38:50 ◼   ► or fail in some other weird way.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Apple has historically been very good

00:38:54 ◼   ► about that kind of thing, so this is,

00:38:56 ◼   ► I don't know if that's included in what they're calling

00:38:58 ◼   ► atypical speech here, but that's,

00:39:01 ◼   ► they're already very good at that,

00:39:02 ◼   ► and so I'm guessing they're gonna keep pushing

00:39:04 ◼   ► in that direction and keep getting better there, too.

00:39:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, so it'll wait and make sure it gets

00:39:08 ◼   ► your entire question out before it gives

00:39:09 ◼   ► its totally wrong answer.

00:39:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, that guy's gonna say, like,

00:39:12 ◼   ► it's, there's still a lot of other work to be done

00:39:14 ◼   ► on the voice interaction with Apple products.

00:39:17 ◼   ► - I send these to Merlin when I find them,

00:39:19 ◼   ► because he is haunted by the terribleness of Syria,

00:39:22 ◼   ► and I had some good ones recently.

00:39:24 ◼   ► These are just from people online.

00:39:26 ◼   ► This is just a screenshot, so it's showing the text

00:39:28 ◼   ► that Siri recognized, so recognition is not a problem, right?

00:39:32 ◼   ► Here's an example of the text.

00:39:34 ◼   ► Turn off focus mode, that's the command to Siri.

00:39:37 ◼   ► Can you guess the response?

00:39:38 ◼   ► Of course you can't.

00:39:40 ◼   ► Sorry, I can't do that.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Great, that's great.

00:39:43 ◼   ► - I feel like I've tried this with CarPlay,

00:39:45 ◼   ► and it hasn't worked, I think, but I can't recall

00:39:48 ◼   ► having tried it with just Siri on my phone.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Not surprised it doesn't work, though.

00:39:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, here's one more.

00:39:52 ◼   ► How long does it take for Neptune to orbit the sun?

00:39:56 ◼   ► Good question.

00:39:57 ◼   ► Maybe Siri's gonna send us to the web or whatever.

00:40:00 ◼   ► Here's what Siri responded.

00:40:02 ◼   ► You can manage medications in the medications app.

00:40:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:40:06 ◼   ► - What?

00:40:07 ◼   ► My word.

00:40:08 ◼   ► - Just this is pre-WWC, we gotta get in all these

00:40:10 ◼   ► cheap shots while we can.

00:40:11 ◼   ► - I think we still will be able to after.

00:40:13 ◼   ► - Nothing beats my seven Cs question.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Adam still jokes about that.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:40:19 ◼   ► - I spent a while looking at the Neptune one

00:40:20 ◼   ► to try to figure out how did it get medications?

00:40:22 ◼   ► I can't figure it out.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Moving along, vehicle motion cues

00:40:26 ◼   ► can help reduce motion sickness.

00:40:29 ◼   ► With vehicle motion cues, animated dots on the edges

00:40:31 ◼   ► of the screen represent changes in vehicle motion

00:40:33 ◼   ► to help reduce sensory conflict without interfering

00:40:35 ◼   ► with the main content.

00:40:37 ◼   ► Using sensors built into iPhone and iPad,

00:40:39 ◼   ► vehicle motion cues recognizes when a user is

00:40:41 ◼   ► in a moving vehicle and responds accordingly.

00:40:42 ◼   ► The feature can be set to show automatically on iPhone

00:40:44 ◼   ► or be turned on and off in control center.

00:40:47 ◼   ► And there's a little demo video that we will put

00:40:50 ◼   ► in the show notes.

00:40:51 ◼   ► I guess what this is indicating is what the car

00:40:55 ◼   ► or vehicle is doing in terms of how it's affecting

00:40:59 ◼   ► your body so when you brake there's dots that kind of

00:41:01 ◼   ► float to the top of the screen.

00:41:03 ◼   ► I don't know if there's a better way to paint

00:41:06 ◼   ► this word picture.

00:41:07 ◼   ► - It looks like, you know those JavaScripts you'd insert

00:41:10 ◼   ► into your MySpace page that would make it snow on the page?

00:41:13 ◼   ► It looks like that, but considering the motion of the car.

00:41:18 ◼   ► And so if the car is making a right turn,

00:41:22 ◼   ► the inertia of your body wants to shift to the left

00:41:25 ◼   ► and so it kind of shows those snowflake dots

00:41:28 ◼   ► on your iPhone screen kind of breezing to the left

00:41:30 ◼   ► a little bit, you know?

00:41:31 ◼   ► It's that kind of thing.

00:41:33 ◼   ► And so I guess the idea is to kind of guide

00:41:38 ◼   ► your motion perception into not being confused

00:41:42 ◼   ► and not thinking it's looking at a still screen

00:41:44 ◼   ► when it's feeling motion and actually kind of showing,

00:41:47 ◼   ► hey look, here's whoosh, little snowflake moving

00:41:48 ◼   ► to the left.

00:41:50 ◼   ► If that works, that's a great feature.

00:41:53 ◼   ► I mean, half the people I know I think would use

00:41:56 ◼   ► that feature if it works 'cause lots of people

00:41:57 ◼   ► have motion sickness when looking at screens in cars.

00:41:59 ◼   ► - This is very relevant to my life.

00:42:00 ◼   ► Not because I get motion sick, but I do.

00:42:03 ◼   ► I get very motion sick.

00:42:05 ◼   ► This is relevant to my life.

00:42:06 ◼   ► This isn't relevant to my life because I would never

00:42:08 ◼   ► look at a screen in a car that would be insanity.

00:42:11 ◼   ► I would get so sick.

00:42:12 ◼   ► I know this from experience.

00:42:13 ◼   ► No dots are going to help me and yeah,

00:42:15 ◼   ► and that's exactly what they're going for.

00:42:16 ◼   ► The idea is that, they even say this in the paragraph

00:42:18 ◼   ► before this is like, one of the causes of motion sickness

00:42:21 ◼   ► is your inner ear feels something that your eyes

00:42:23 ◼   ► don't see reflected in front of them.

00:42:26 ◼   ► They expect when your inner ear feels you yanking

00:42:28 ◼   ► to the left, you better see stuff moving to the right.

00:42:30 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:42:32 ◼   ► But when there's a mismatch, you get sick.

00:42:34 ◼   ► And it doesn't take much to get, I can't read a book,

00:42:36 ◼   ► I can't look at a phone, I can't do anything in a plane,

00:42:38 ◼   ► in a car, in a boat, nothing, nothing, nothing.

00:42:40 ◼   ► And that's no problem.

00:42:41 ◼   ► I just don't do that.

00:42:42 ◼   ► I know what I have to do.

00:42:43 ◼   ► I have to look out the front window.

00:42:44 ◼   ► I have to do all this stuff, right?

00:42:45 ◼   ► But you know who doesn't know that or rather,

00:42:47 ◼   ► who knows that but their brain is not yet developed enough

00:42:49 ◼   ► to do anything about it?

00:42:51 ◼   ► My children.

00:42:52 ◼   ► We go on long car trips, they all look at their devices,

00:42:55 ◼   ► then they get motion sick and complain that they're motion

00:42:57 ◼   ► sick and I say, you know why you're motion sick?

00:42:58 ◼   ► 'Cause you're looking at your phone.

00:43:00 ◼   ► And so they've proven they will not stop looking

00:43:03 ◼   ► at their phone.

00:43:04 ◼   ► They'll do it until they get sick and then they'll put

00:43:06 ◼   ► their phone down and go, oh, I feel sick again and again

00:43:09 ◼   ► and again 'cause teenagers brains don't work right yet.

00:43:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:12 ◼   ► But this, I maybe, maybe I can persuade them to turn this on

00:43:16 ◼   ► and I will let you know if it works.

00:43:18 ◼   ► I will let you know because they're certainly gonna look

00:43:19 ◼   ► at their phones like, can you just put on these dots?

00:43:21 ◼   ► They might be like, oh, these dots are covering my screen.

00:43:23 ◼   ► I don't like it but like, if it works, it will give them

00:43:27 ◼   ► a way to be teenagers who make poor choices

00:43:30 ◼   ► and be slightly more comfortable at the same time.

00:43:33 ◼   ► - And it seems like it's designed for car use.

00:43:35 ◼   ► And Apple already has like some, what we now call AI

00:43:39 ◼   ► but what we would previously call some ML algorithms

00:43:41 ◼   ► to process the motion data from the phone's accelerometer

00:43:44 ◼   ► and stuff into trying to detect whether you're in a car,

00:43:47 ◼   ► whether you're riding a bike, whether you're walking.

00:43:49 ◼   ► So as far as I can guess, it probably wouldn't be showing

00:43:52 ◼   ► these dots all the time as you're just walking around

00:43:55 ◼   ► in the world.

00:43:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, you can turn it on manually

00:43:57 ◼   ► and you can also set it to auto detect when you're in a car

00:44:00 ◼   ► which I'm assuming you'll just use GPS or whatever.

00:44:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, or those ML algorithms for motion which I think

00:44:06 ◼   ► if it's that unintrusive to just leave it enabled

00:44:08 ◼   ► and it would only show when you're in a car

00:44:10 ◼   ► and only when the car is doing kind of inertia generating

00:44:13 ◼   ► movements, that could be something that people leave on

00:44:16 ◼   ► all the time and be totally fine.

00:44:18 ◼   ► So I hope it works 'cause if again, that's a big problem.

00:44:21 ◼   ► Like my wife would use it, my son would use it

00:44:23 ◼   ► for the same reason that Sean mentioned about your kids.

00:44:26 ◼   ► I think that would be a great feature if it works.

00:44:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause people who don't get motion sick easily

00:44:31 ◼   ► will insist that they don't get motion sick period

00:44:34 ◼   ► which is not true for any human who has a functioning worker

00:44:36 ◼   ► in a year and is conscious.

00:44:37 ◼   ► Everyone gets motion sick eventually.

00:44:39 ◼   ► But if you don't get motion sick easily,

00:44:41 ◼   ► you think every time it happens to you is an anomaly.

00:44:44 ◼   ► But it's not.

00:44:45 ◼   ► If you're in a car and it's moving around a lot

00:44:48 ◼   ► and you stare at your phone,

00:44:49 ◼   ► you will eventually get motion sick.

00:44:50 ◼   ► It's just a question of how long

00:44:51 ◼   ► and how much movement it takes.

00:44:52 ◼   ► And just people get surprised by it again and again and again.

00:44:55 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, most of the time you're fine

00:44:56 ◼   ► but on the winding mountain road, you're not fine.

00:44:58 ◼   ► So put the phone down.

00:45:00 ◼   ► - It's inevitable apparently.

00:45:02 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right.

00:45:03 ◼   ► And then finally, or at least finally

00:45:05 ◼   ► that we're gonna talk about,

00:45:07 ◼   ► there are some accessibility features coming to VisionOS.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Accessibility features coming to VisionOS

00:45:11 ◼   ► will include system-wide live captions

00:45:13 ◼   ► to help everyone including users who are deaf

00:45:15 ◼   ► or hard of hearing to follow along with spoken dialogue

00:45:19 ◼   ► in live conversations and in audio from apps.

00:45:21 ◼   ► With live captions for FaceTime and VisionOS,

00:45:23 ◼   ► more users can easily enjoy the unique experience

00:45:26 ◼   ► of connecting and collaborating using their persona.

00:45:29 ◼   ► So I think the implication here is that

00:45:31 ◼   ► there'll be a little floating window

00:45:32 ◼   ► that's just not translating,

00:45:34 ◼   ► but showing what the people around you are saying

00:45:38 ◼   ► or perhaps the app you're in the middle of using

00:45:42 ◼   ► is saying to you.

00:45:44 ◼   ► So you get like a live transcript

00:45:46 ◼   ► of what's going on around you

00:45:47 ◼   ► or perhaps even in your device.

00:45:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think by the time we have

00:45:51 ◼   ► essentially Apple Vision Pro caliber stuff in glasses,

00:45:54 ◼   ► hopefully the transcription quality will be such that

00:45:59 ◼   ► this will be another killer app

00:46:00 ◼   ► in addition to putting people's names over them.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Just like if you're hard of hearing

00:46:04 ◼   ► or just going out into an environment

00:46:05 ◼   ► where it's challenging to hear

00:46:06 ◼   ► like a restaurant or a busy bar or something

00:46:09 ◼   ► and trying to talk to somebody,

00:46:11 ◼   ► being able to see the words that they're speaking in text

00:46:13 ◼   ► floating below their mouth

00:46:14 ◼   ► or in a little cartoon speech bubble as they say it,

00:46:17 ◼   ► using your glasses that just look like glasses,

00:46:19 ◼   ► that is a future we can all buy into

00:46:21 ◼   ► because that's just, I mean,

00:46:22 ◼   ► people love subtitles on their televisions

00:46:24 ◼   ► for shows that they watch now in their own houses

00:46:26 ◼   ► because their dogs bark too much or whatever.

00:46:28 ◼   ► Having this out there in the real world is great.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Not so great that people are gonna spend $3,500

00:46:32 ◼   ► and put on a giant pair of ski goggles to do it,

00:46:34 ◼   ► but even in that context, like I said,

00:46:36 ◼   ► for people who wanna participate in meetings,

00:46:37 ◼   ► obviously there's an accessibility angle

00:46:38 ◼   ► if you can't actually hear them

00:46:40 ◼   ► or have difficulty hearing them in the Vision Pro,

00:46:42 ◼   ► but even if you can hear them,

00:46:44 ◼   ► being able to see a hopefully accurate transcription

00:46:47 ◼   ► of what they're seeing in text form is great.

00:46:49 ◼   ► - And then finally, our friend, Shelly Brisbane

00:46:52 ◼   ► over at Six Colors.

00:46:53 ◼   ► I get, well, she guest posted over at Six Colors

00:46:56 ◼   ► talking about all this and Shelly is awesome

00:46:59 ◼   ► and she is vision impaired

00:47:01 ◼   ► and so she has some personal experience

00:47:03 ◼   ► with a lot of this stuff and has a really great take.

00:47:05 ◼   ► You can read over at Six Colors,

00:47:06 ◼   ► which we will link in the show notes.

00:47:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, and there are more features than what we listed.

00:47:09 ◼   ► We just picked some of the interesting ones,

00:47:11 ◼   ► but there's more stuff as well.

00:47:12 ◼   ► And you mentioned that it's like World Accessibility Day

00:47:15 ◼   ► or whatever that's like,

00:47:16 ◼   ► explains why Apple does this announcement when they do,

00:47:19 ◼   ► and I think that makes sense,

00:47:20 ◼   ► but every time they do this, I'm like,

00:47:23 ◼   ► it's kind of like when they give

00:47:24 ◼   ► the Science of Technical Awards before the real Oscars.

00:47:28 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:47:29 ◼   ► I don't know if Marco knows what that is, but they,

00:47:32 ◼   ► they have a separate award show

00:47:34 ◼   ► for the less phonogenic nerdy people

00:47:36 ◼   ► and they get their Oscars then

00:47:39 ◼   ► and then the real Oscars that air on TV

00:47:40 ◼   ► that have the good looking celebrities,

00:47:42 ◼   ► you know, where they give like best picture

00:47:43 ◼   ► and best actor take place or whatever.

00:47:45 ◼   ► And I always kind of feel like, well,

00:47:46 ◼   ► why aren't these accessibility features

00:47:48 ◼   ► part of an event or a keynote or WWDC?

00:47:51 ◼   ► And the answer is because this is World Accessibility Day.

00:47:53 ◼   ► So I give Apple a pass on it,

00:47:54 ◼   ► but it is, some of this stuff is so cool

00:47:56 ◼   ► and so interesting and so impactful on people's lives

00:47:58 ◼   ► that it feels like it should be just as important

00:48:01 ◼   ► as whatever other features they're gonna talk about

00:48:03 ◼   ► in the new OS's and WWDC.

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00:50:03 ◼   ► - All right, Jon, do you wanna talk about your purchase

00:50:10 ◼   ► or do we wanna just dive into the discourse?

00:50:13 ◼   ► - I mean, just briefly on my purchase,

00:50:15 ◼   ► like I just literally got it today

00:50:16 ◼   ► and took a long time to set it up

00:50:17 ◼   ► because the thing is stupid.

00:50:19 ◼   ► I'll give my two second story on that,

00:50:21 ◼   ► but like I haven't actually used it much yet

00:50:23 ◼   ► other than the setup process.

00:50:25 ◼   ► So I'll have more to say about it in the future.

00:50:27 ◼   ► But you know, like the screen looks really good.

00:50:28 ◼   ► It's really thin.

00:50:29 ◼   ► It's nice.

00:50:30 ◼   ► I like it.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Like it's so similar to my previous one,

00:50:33 ◼   ► except that it's a little bit thinner.

00:50:34 ◼   ► It also feels like it's not as wide and as tall.

00:50:38 ◼   ► I don't know if that's the case.

00:50:39 ◼   ► I'll have to put them on top of each other and see.

00:50:42 ◼   ► But I look forward to using,

00:50:42 ◼   ► especially with a little adjustable sand

00:50:44 ◼   ► and the screen looks great.

00:50:45 ◼   ► The setup process, like I don't know what the problem,

00:50:49 ◼   ► I'm having bad setup luck,

00:50:50 ◼   ► but like, you know, you bring your other iPad in the air

00:50:53 ◼   ► or whatever and I'm faced with that terrible screen

00:50:55 ◼   ► that I never know the right thing to pick

00:50:57 ◼   ► and I always pick the wrong click.

00:50:58 ◼   ► It's like, do you want to step in iCloud?

00:50:58 ◼   ► It'll take 15 minutes,

00:50:59 ◼   ► but then your apps will slowly be loading forever.

00:51:01 ◼   ► Or do you want to transfer from another device?

00:51:03 ◼   ► All your data will be there

00:51:03 ◼   ► and it will take 40 minutes or something.

00:51:05 ◼   ► And I always pick other device

00:51:06 ◼   ► 'cause I just want all my stuff.

00:51:08 ◼   ► And then it takes hours and hours.

00:51:09 ◼   ► But anyway, I picked other device

00:51:11 ◼   ► and then it's like, oh, your system needs to be updated.

00:51:13 ◼   ► Of course, it doesn't tell me that

00:51:14 ◼   ► until 15 steps into the setup process.

00:51:16 ◼   ► So I ran an OS update.

00:51:17 ◼   ► And then it's like, oh, you know, find the other device.

00:51:19 ◼   ► Oh, transfer from the other device.

00:51:20 ◼   ► And it's like, log into your Apple ID.

00:51:23 ◼   ► And it's like, your Apple ID is locked.

00:51:26 ◼   ► As I've talked about recently in rectifs,

00:51:27 ◼   ► my Apple ID is always locked.

00:51:29 ◼   ► Do you want to unlock your Apple ID?

00:51:30 ◼   ► And I try to unlock my Apple ID.

00:51:31 ◼   ► And then it says, your iPad needs to be reset.

00:51:35 ◼   ► Whatever starts all over again.

00:51:37 ◼   ► I went through this like six times.

00:51:38 ◼   ► I'm an old pro at unlocking my Apple ID.

00:51:41 ◼   ► And as I said in rectifs,

00:51:42 ◼   ► don't be fooled into thinking you have to reset your password

00:51:45 ◼   ► because you don't.

00:51:46 ◼   ► But anyway, it took me like five tries.

00:51:48 ◼   ► And each of the five tries was like,

00:51:49 ◼   ► the whole iPad needs to be reset

00:51:51 ◼   ► and has to restart through the process

00:51:53 ◼   ► and unlocking my Apple ID and doing all this.

00:51:55 ◼   ► What a headache.

00:51:56 ◼   ► Like, why is my Apple ID constantly locked?

00:51:58 ◼   ► It's been this way for years.

00:51:59 ◼   ► It's not just because of the recent Apple ID thing

00:52:01 ◼   ► that you've heard about.

00:52:03 ◼   ► It's been happening to me for years and years.

00:52:04 ◼   ► So that's why I'm not scared by it

00:52:06 ◼   ► and know how to deal with it, but so frustrating.

00:52:08 ◼   ► And then it's 30 to 40 minute estimate

00:52:10 ◼   ► for the data transfer is hilarious.

00:52:11 ◼   ► It took, I think, three and a half hours.

00:52:13 ◼   ► But anyway, it's set up now.

00:52:15 ◼   ► - All right, so before we go any further,

00:52:18 ◼   ► a couple of quick points of clarification.

00:52:19 ◼   ► First of all, when you say your Apple ID is locked,

00:52:21 ◼   ► that to me sounds like an American credit,

00:52:25 ◼   ► like your credit, what is it?

00:52:26 ◼   ► Credit report or credit profile or whatever,

00:52:28 ◼   ► where you are choosing to lock it.

00:52:29 ◼   ► That is not what you're saying.

00:52:31 ◼   ► Is that correct?

00:52:32 ◼   ► - Right, so it's, the message you usually get is,

00:52:35 ◼   ► your Apple ID has been locked.

00:52:36 ◼   ► Sometimes they'll say something like, for security reasons,

00:52:39 ◼   ► but they never get into details.

00:52:41 ◼   ► What's the problem with someone trying to log in?

00:52:43 ◼   ► Did we get the wrong password too many times?

00:52:45 ◼   ► Is it because we think you're in a foreign country?

00:52:46 ◼   ► Like, they don't tell you.

00:52:48 ◼   ► It's just as your Apple ID has been locked

00:52:49 ◼   ► or your Apple ID has been locked for security reasons,

00:52:52 ◼   ► and you have to unlock it.

00:52:53 ◼   ► And to unlock it, it makes you do things like,

00:52:55 ◼   ► enter the phone number of your trusted device,

00:52:58 ◼   ► get a text, put in a number, enter your Apple ID password,

00:53:01 ◼   ► use a trusted device to unlock,

00:53:03 ◼   ► there's like 17 different ways to unlock your Apple ID

00:53:05 ◼   ► on every different device.

00:53:07 ◼   ► I've been through all of them 50 times.

00:53:08 ◼   ► Sometimes some of them work, sometimes some of them don't.

00:53:10 ◼   ► A lot of them eventually lead you to a screen

00:53:11 ◼   ► where they want you to enter a new password.

00:53:14 ◼   ► You don't have to do that.

00:53:15 ◼   ► You can just hit cancel and try another route down

00:53:17 ◼   ► the twisted phone tree that is the unlocking of your Apple ID.

00:53:21 ◼   ► And the bottom line is, when your Apple ID is locked,

00:53:23 ◼   ► you can't do anything with your Apple ID.

00:53:26 ◼   ► And Apple is the one locking it.

00:53:28 ◼   ► They're basically saying, we're not sure you're you anymore

00:53:32 ◼   ► on this device or whatever, so you need to prove to us

00:53:36 ◼   ► that you are you and you own this Apple ID

00:53:39 ◼   ► before we will let you use your Apple ID anymore.

00:53:41 ◼   ► And this has been happening to me on and off

00:53:43 ◼   ► for years and years and years, and I'm not the only one.

00:53:46 ◼   ► And it's not a fun part of the Apple ID system,

00:53:48 ◼   ► but it exists.

00:53:49 ◼   ► - Well, the discourse is happening.

00:53:52 ◼   ► And it seems like every year this storm

00:53:57 ◼   ► is getting a little bigger and a little louder.

00:53:59 ◼   ► And this year it's hit a bit of a crescendo, if you will.

00:54:03 ◼   ► And I think John, but somebody put in the show notes,

00:54:05 ◼   ► iPad Pro Dissatisfaction, as the name of this section.

00:54:08 ◼   ► And I think that that's pretty accurate.

00:54:11 ◼   ► And so in summary, I think all three of us can agree,

00:54:15 ◼   ► and most people can agree, that the iPad Pro hardware

00:54:20 ◼   ► has been, and especially now, is bananas.

00:54:26 ◼   ► It is absolutely out of control good.

00:54:28 ◼   ► It can be all things to all people

00:54:31 ◼   ► from a hardware perspective.

00:54:32 ◼   ► Yes, I'm sure you can nitpick here and there.

00:54:34 ◼   ► Maybe it would be nice to have one more port.

00:54:36 ◼   ► Maybe it'd be nice to have more battery life.

00:54:37 ◼   ► But ultimately, without too much compromise,

00:54:41 ◼   ► the iPad Pro hardware is as close to perfect

00:54:44 ◼   ► as I think we can get in the year 2024.

00:54:46 ◼   ► - And by the way, Casey, since you love to do this to me,

00:54:48 ◼   ► we should all just realize that the iPad Pro

00:54:53 ◼   ► has the fastest single-core performance

00:54:55 ◼   ► of any device Apple has ever sold, has ever sold.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Faster than all your MacBook Pros, your Mac Studio,

00:55:02 ◼   ► your M2 Mac Pro, single-core performance

00:55:06 ◼   ► on the ridiculously thin, fanless iPad

00:55:10 ◼   ► for your single-core, non-parallelizable jobs,

00:55:13 ◼   ► the iPad Pro is the king.

00:55:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's bananas.

00:55:18 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know any other word to use to describe it.

00:55:20 ◼   ► It's just, it's bananas.

00:55:23 ◼   ► So anyway, so that is, I think, pretty much understood

00:55:27 ◼   ► by everyone who has ever looked at an iPad,

00:55:29 ◼   ► that yes, again, we could nitpick here and there,

00:55:31 ◼   ► but by and large, iPad Pro hardware is currently solved.

00:55:36 ◼   ► You know, maybe it'll, over time,

00:55:37 ◼   ► I'm sure it'll be different and get better and so on,

00:55:39 ◼   ► but for right now, it's been solved.

00:55:40 ◼   ► - And well, not so much solved as,

00:55:42 ◼   ► it has shown steady progression.

00:55:44 ◼   ► Every time a new iPad comes out,

00:55:46 ◼   ► it's a little bit better than before,

00:55:47 ◼   ► and if you do that over the course of 14 years,

00:55:49 ◼   ► you get from the original iPad to what we have now.

00:55:52 ◼   ► It just keeps getting better hardware-wise.

00:55:56 ◼   ► Screen gets better, and like we said last show,

00:55:58 ◼   ► it's mostly just a big screen.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Now it's got the best screen Apple has ever sold,

00:56:01 ◼   ► not the biggest, but the best looking screen

00:56:03 ◼   ► with the best specs or whatever.

00:56:05 ◼   ► It gets thinner, it gets lighter,

00:56:06 ◼   ► the battery life has been held steady

00:56:08 ◼   ► at what Apple thinks is an acceptable amount of battery life

00:56:10 ◼   ► and most people, for the most part, agree.

00:56:13 ◼   ► The hardware advances the way we expect

00:56:16 ◼   ► a technology product's hardware to advance.

00:56:18 ◼   ► The one quibble we might have with the hardware,

00:56:20 ◼   ► setting aside the port limitations,

00:56:21 ◼   ► is it is getting more expensive over time,

00:56:24 ◼   ► which doesn't feel great,

00:56:25 ◼   ► and that is more of a business complaint

00:56:28 ◼   ► than a technological one.

00:56:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:56:31 ◼   ► However, with all that said,

00:56:33 ◼   ► as amazing as this hardware is, and it is amazing,

00:56:37 ◼   ► what about that software though?

00:56:40 ◼   ► And that's where everything takes a turn.

00:56:45 ◼   ► And I think it's hard, it's hard to talk,

00:56:49 ◼   ► or for me anyway, it's hard to talk about this

00:56:51 ◼   ► because I have wants and needs for my computing platforms

00:56:56 ◼   ► and they are not the same as John's,

00:57:00 ◼   ► they're not the same as Marco's,

00:57:01 ◼   ► they're not the same as yours.

00:57:02 ◼   ► But there are many like it, but this one is mine,

00:57:05 ◼   ► that's a reference, John.

00:57:05 ◼   ► And so for me, there's a lot of times

00:57:10 ◼   ► that I will have my iPad in hand and then I'll go,

00:57:14 ◼   ► ugh, this would be so much faster

00:57:16 ◼   ► if I just run up the stairs and use my Mac.

00:57:18 ◼   ► And I don't remember if I said it publicly or privately,

00:57:20 ◼   ► I don't remember if we were recording at the time,

00:57:23 ◼   ► but it's happened enough that I confessed to Marco

00:57:26 ◼   ► sometime recently again, maybe privately,

00:57:29 ◼   ► that I started wondering, should I have an iPad Air

00:57:32 ◼   ► downstairs instead of an iPad, or excuse me, not an iPad Air,

00:57:35 ◼   ► a MacBook Air downstairs instead of an iPad?

00:57:39 ◼   ► So then I would have a laptop on both floors,

00:57:41 ◼   ► which immediately I chastised myself immediately for this

00:57:46 ◼   ► for a few reasons, which we can go into later

00:57:49 ◼   ► if we really care, but suffice to say,

00:57:51 ◼   ► the fact that I had that thought, I think,

00:57:55 ◼   ► is kind of indicative that something isn't really right.

00:58:00 ◼   ► And so there's an argument,

00:58:03 ◼   ► and I think Gruber did a really good job

00:58:04 ◼   ► of presenting this argument, that look,

00:58:07 ◼   ► the constraints, the guardrails, the limits of iPadOS

00:58:12 ◼   ► is a feature, not a bug.

00:58:13 ◼   ► And I think unquestionably, there are many people,

00:58:16 ◼   ► probably in all of our lives,

00:58:18 ◼   ► where they find it refreshing to have those guardrails,

00:58:22 ◼   ► those limits, et cetera,

00:58:24 ◼   ► but my mom, for example, and I don't pick on her

00:58:28 ◼   ► because of any reason other than

00:58:30 ◼   ► she is a real-world example close to me,

00:58:33 ◼   ► that she is perfectly capable of using a Mac,

00:58:35 ◼   ► but she prefers having an iPad because it's easier,

00:58:39 ◼   ► it's simpler, it's harder to screw it up.

00:58:43 ◼   ► And there are millions of people like that,

00:58:46 ◼   ► and I don't want any of the three of us

00:58:48 ◼   ► to lose sight of that because there's something to be said

00:58:51 ◼   ► for those people, but I don't think any of the three of us

00:58:54 ◼   ► are those people.

00:58:56 ◼   ► And so for us, whenever I use an iPad,

00:58:59 ◼   ► for anything even remotely quote-unquote serious,

00:59:04 ◼   ► I feel like I'm walking through molasses,

00:59:06 ◼   ► and it's frustrating, and I wish I had a native terminal.

00:59:11 ◼   ► There are great terminal apps for iPad,

00:59:13 ◼   ► but I wish I had a native terminal.

00:59:15 ◼   ► I wish I had windowing the way I wanna do windowing.

00:59:18 ◼   ► I wish I had a clipboard manager.

00:59:20 ◼   ► I wish the Files app wasn't a pile of garbage.

00:59:23 ◼   ► I wish so many things for iPad OS.

00:59:25 ◼   ► And that doesn't mean that the iPad isn't good.

00:59:28 ◼   ► It doesn't mean that it's worthless.

00:59:30 ◼   ► It's just, it will always for me kinda sorta be a toy,

00:59:35 ◼   ► or be for looking rather than doing.

00:59:39 ◼   ► And when you remember what John said just a minute ago,

00:59:42 ◼   ► it's the fastest single core, you said,

00:59:44 ◼   ► the fastest single core processor that Apple has ever made.

00:59:47 ◼   ► It's got the new ones have the best screens

00:59:49 ◼   ► Apple has ever made.

00:59:50 ◼   ► It's the thinnest device Apple has ever made.

00:59:54 ◼   ► In so many ways, it has cellular, Marco, it has cellular.

00:59:57 ◼   ► And let me tell you, it is freaking fantastic.

00:59:59 ◼   ► I have a cellular iPad, it has service, it is amazing.

01:00:04 ◼   ► All of those things make it so wonderful and so powerful.

01:00:07 ◼   ► And yet for so many professionals, not all,

01:00:10 ◼   ► but a lot of us, and granted the ones that are the kind

01:00:14 ◼   ► to have a podcaster to write code, for so many of us,

01:00:17 ◼   ► it's just a non-starter and that's crummy.

01:00:20 ◼   ► And I just wish that maybe not for the iPad,

01:00:25 ◼   ► maybe not for the iPad Air,

01:00:27 ◼   ► but if you're going to call a device an iPad professional,

01:00:30 ◼   ► and yes, I know the professional doesn't always mean

01:00:33 ◼   ► for a pro, doesn't always mean professional.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Pro oftentimes just means nice, the iPad nice.

01:00:38 ◼   ► But if you're gonna call it the iPad Pro,

01:00:41 ◼   ► and if you're gonna put this ridiculous bananas hardware

01:00:44 ◼   ► in it, can you let us do more with it, please?

01:00:48 ◼   ► And Jason has been banging the drum of,

01:00:51 ◼   ► let's allow Mac OS to be virtualized inside iPad OS.

01:00:56 ◼   ► And he's not backpedaled,

01:00:59 ◼   ► but kind of clarified a few times recently,

01:01:01 ◼   ► look, I'm not saying that this is the best solution,

01:01:06 ◼   ► but it would be a wonderful pressure release valve.

01:01:10 ◼   ► And Steve Trout and Smith,

01:01:11 ◼   ► which we'll probably talk more about him in a moment,

01:01:13 ◼   ► has said the same thing.

01:01:15 ◼   ► This is not the perfect answer,

01:01:17 ◼   ► this theory where you can virtualize Mac OS,

01:01:19 ◼   ► is not the perfect answer, but it's an answer.

01:01:22 ◼   ► And it's an answer that doesn't require Apple

01:01:25 ◼   ► to fundamentally rethink so much of iPad OS,

01:01:27 ◼   ► which in the last 14 years,

01:01:29 ◼   ► they seem to be very reluctant to do.

01:01:31 ◼   ► And the times that they've done it,

01:01:32 ◼   ► ahem, stage manager, have not been stellar.

01:01:36 ◼   ► So that's kind of my summary and my own opinions

01:01:39 ◼   ► about the discourse that's going on right now.

01:01:43 ◼   ► - As the iPad lightest user of the three of us,

01:01:46 ◼   ► Marco, any comments from you,

01:01:47 ◼   ► and then John, you can kind of bring us through full circle.

01:01:49 ◼   ► - Oh, I have infinite comments,

01:01:50 ◼   ► but I'll try to keep it reasonably contained.

01:01:52 ◼   ► - That's true, I forgot with whom I'm speaking.

01:01:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's kind of the reason we have podcasts.

01:01:57 ◼   ► All right, so it can be very difficult

01:02:00 ◼   ► for discussions like this to be productive

01:02:03 ◼   ► in such a way that don't come down to,

01:02:07 ◼   ► like, well, it works for me, why wouldn't it work for you?

01:02:10 ◼   ► Or it works for me, and if it doesn't work for you,

01:02:12 ◼   ► it's the wrong tool for your job,

01:02:13 ◼   ► or you're using it wrong, or whatever.

01:02:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:16 ◼   ► - For a lot of people, the iPad is what they use

01:02:19 ◼   ► on a regular basis, either as their only computer

01:02:21 ◼   ► or their primary computer,

01:02:22 ◼   ► or just one of the accessory devices in their lives,

01:02:25 ◼   ► and they're perfectly happy with it.

01:02:26 ◼   ► And so anything that, when we get into, like,

01:02:30 ◼   ► can the iPad be used for pro tasks, what is a pro task,

01:02:33 ◼   ► how could it be made better to make certain pro tasks better

01:02:36 ◼   ► or certain just everyday tasks better,

01:02:38 ◼   ► the reason these discussions come up,

01:02:41 ◼   ► so when you're trying to get it to be more pro-like, well,

01:02:45 ◼   ► why, one reason is Apple releases a new product

01:02:49 ◼   ► that has pro in the name, and it costs a lot of money,

01:02:51 ◼   ► and it has great hardware specs, and so we're like, wow,

01:02:54 ◼   ► I wish this product could work for me,

01:02:56 ◼   ► because it can be kind of off-putting

01:02:59 ◼   ► if Apple, this company that you like,

01:03:01 ◼   ► makes a product that looks really cool,

01:03:03 ◼   ► and they're saying, look how amazing this is,

01:03:05 ◼   ► and you really want the hardware,

01:03:07 ◼   ► but it doesn't work for you for your software needs.

01:03:09 ◼   ► At the same time, lots of people use it just fine,

01:03:11 ◼   ► and so it's very difficult to discuss this

01:03:14 ◼   ► without inflaming somebody or inflaming some group,

01:03:17 ◼   ► and so with that giant prefix, you mentioned earlier

01:03:22 ◼   ► the difference between a MacBook and an iPad

01:03:24 ◼   ► in certain contexts.

01:03:26 ◼   ► I would say, for your own personal purposes, Casey,

01:03:29 ◼   ► the idea of it sounding ridiculous to have a MacBook Air

01:03:32 ◼   ► on the bottom floor of your house

01:03:34 ◼   ► is not any more ridiculous than having an iPad

01:03:37 ◼   ► on the bottom floor of your house,

01:03:38 ◼   ► because now they cost in the same price range.

01:03:41 ◼   ► - That's a really good point, actually.

01:03:43 ◼   ► - Well, the iPad Pro does.

01:03:44 ◼   ► The iPad spans all the way down to $350.

01:03:46 ◼   ► That's part of the reason we're talking about this,

01:03:48 ◼   ► is we're talking about the ones that go up to $3,700.

01:03:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I'm not even talking about

01:03:52 ◼   ► the crazy high spec ones.

01:03:53 ◼   ► I'm just saying, if you want an iPad Pro with a keyboard,

01:03:57 ◼   ► you're in MacBook Air territory,

01:03:58 ◼   ► and it's a lot of the same hardware.

01:04:00 ◼   ► One of the frustrating things is that

01:04:02 ◼   ► if you're a Mac person, it's frustrating

01:04:04 ◼   ► to look at the iPad Pro, because the iPad Pro,

01:04:07 ◼   ► for the same size and price class as a MacBook Air,

01:04:12 ◼   ► has much of the same hardware,

01:04:15 ◼   ► but some of it's way higher end, like the display.

01:04:18 ◼   ► Way higher end on the iPad

01:04:21 ◼   ► than on the similarly priced MacBook Air.

01:04:23 ◼   ► - I would also say that the cellular radio

01:04:25 ◼   ► is a little bit better on the iPad than the MacBook Air.

01:04:28 ◼   ► - That's another thing, too.

01:04:29 ◼   ► Apple has clearly shown at this point,

01:04:31 ◼   ► it isn't that they haven't gotten to it yet.

01:04:33 ◼   ► They have actively refused and continue

01:04:37 ◼   ► to actively refuse to make cellular Macs.

01:04:40 ◼   ► We are long past the point where they could have done it.

01:04:43 ◼   ► They could have done it many times.

01:04:44 ◼   ► We now know lots of things, like hey,

01:04:47 ◼   ► it fits with Apple Silicon, because they do it in iPads.

01:04:50 ◼   ► It fits within this price envelope,

01:04:51 ◼   ► because they do it with iPads.

01:04:53 ◼   ► It fits within the size category,

01:04:55 ◼   ► because they do it with iPads.

01:04:56 ◼   ► It fits within this battery life,

01:04:57 ◼   ► because they do it with iPads.

01:04:58 ◼   ► When you look at the hardware between an iPad Pro

01:05:01 ◼   ► and a MacBook Air, it's so similar now

01:05:04 ◼   ► that there is no good excuse

01:05:07 ◼   ► for why Apple can't do cellular Macs.

01:05:10 ◼   ► They are just choosing not to.

01:05:11 ◼   ► They are refusing to do cellular Macs.

01:05:14 ◼   ► And I don't know their reasons.

01:05:15 ◼   ► I wish they would change their mind on that.

01:05:17 ◼   ► I hope someday they do.

01:05:19 ◼   ► But it can be frustrating then, like as a Mac person,

01:05:21 ◼   ► to look at the iPad Pro and say,

01:05:23 ◼   ► why can't we have those amazing screens

01:05:27 ◼   ► and an amazing feature like cellular,

01:05:29 ◼   ► maybe even pencil support, on our Mac laptops?

01:05:33 ◼   ► So there is also that angle of Mac people

01:05:35 ◼   ► looking at the iPad and being a little bit frustrated.

01:05:37 ◼   ► But the fundamental difference between these platforms,

01:05:40 ◼   ► a Mac is a generalist.

01:05:43 ◼   ► A Mac can be pretty good to very good at almost anything.

01:05:48 ◼   ► You don't have to ask somebody for the most part,

01:05:52 ◼   ► hey, can you get your work done on a Mac?

01:05:55 ◼   ► If they can get their work done on a computer,

01:05:57 ◼   ► it can probably be done on a Mac.

01:06:00 ◼   ► In almost every case, most people with most needs,

01:06:03 ◼   ► most of the time, they can do what they need to do

01:06:05 ◼   ► with a Mac.

01:06:07 ◼   ► If you are already in the Apple ecosystem,

01:06:09 ◼   ► you can probably do almost everything you would need to do

01:06:12 ◼   ► on a Mac, except maybe anything requiring

01:06:14 ◼   ► like the Apple pencil or something that's only available

01:06:16 ◼   ► in an iOS app, for instance.

01:06:18 ◼   ► But for the most part, Macs are the generalists.

01:06:21 ◼   ► They can do pretty much anything.

01:06:23 ◼   ► There is never a time, if I am on a trip,

01:06:27 ◼   ► and I have with me my phone, which I always have,

01:06:31 ◼   ► and a Mac, which I almost always have,

01:06:34 ◼   ► there is never a time when I'm like,

01:06:35 ◼   ► well, whatever I wanna do, I can't get it done

01:06:38 ◼   ► with these two devices, I need to get an iPad to do this.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Like that never happens.

01:06:42 ◼   ► Whereas, when I am using an iPad,

01:06:45 ◼   ► I frequently run into things where,

01:06:48 ◼   ► oh, I can't do it here.

01:06:49 ◼   ► This thing I have to do, I gotta do it on a Mac,

01:06:51 ◼   ► or maybe my phone, usually it's my Mac.

01:06:53 ◼   ► - Or, a couple quick notes here.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Number one, it could be that you are capable

01:06:58 ◼   ► of doing it on your iPad or perhaps your phone,

01:07:03 ◼   ► but it would be way faster to do it on a Mac

01:07:06 ◼   ► than just not even close to the difference in time

01:07:09 ◼   ► it would take to do something on the iPad

01:07:12 ◼   ► versus doing it on the Mac.

01:07:13 ◼   ► And secondly, you said this earlier,

01:07:15 ◼   ► but I just wanna reiterate,

01:07:16 ◼   ► there are people for whom the iPad is the best solution,

01:07:21 ◼   ► and especially people who are like drawing

01:07:22 ◼   ► with the Apple pencil, for example.

01:07:23 ◼   ► Again, you said this earlier.

01:07:25 ◼   ► But I would venture, and I think this is what Marco

01:07:28 ◼   ► was saying, there are considerably more people

01:07:31 ◼   ► that can almost always get their work done on a Mac

01:07:35 ◼   ► than those who are artists and illustrators

01:07:37 ◼   ► and so on and so forth.

01:07:39 ◼   ► - If you look at what the iPad is good for,

01:07:41 ◼   ► if you picture a bar graph, with each bar being

01:07:44 ◼   ► how good it is at a certain task,

01:07:46 ◼   ► how the Mac is good at different tasks,

01:07:50 ◼   ► the bar graph basically forms what looks like

01:07:52 ◼   ► a rolling hills kind of thing.

01:07:55 ◼   ► The Mac is like a rolling hills of bars

01:07:57 ◼   ► that are just like, it's pretty good at this,

01:07:59 ◼   ► pretty good at that, it's kinda pretty good at everything.

01:08:01 ◼   ► Something it's really great at.

01:08:03 ◼   ► The iPad, when you look at that same virtual graph of tasks,

01:08:08 ◼   ► it looks like skyscrapers in a city.

01:08:11 ◼   ► It's really good at certain things.

01:08:12 ◼   ► It's like great and zero, great and zero.

01:08:15 ◼   ► Like up, down, up, like huge spikes

01:08:18 ◼   ► that it's like, it's really good at some things,

01:08:20 ◼   ► and other things it just cannot do at all.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Or the barriers to do it are so ridiculous

01:08:27 ◼   ► that only the most advanced dedicated users

01:08:29 ◼   ► could do them and would take the time to do them.

01:08:31 ◼   ► If you're on a Mac and you run into a snag with something,

01:08:35 ◼   ► odds are you can probably get around it.

01:08:37 ◼   ► First of all, odds are you'll run into fewer snags.

01:08:39 ◼   ► And you can probably get around it

01:08:41 ◼   ► in some relatively straightforward way.

01:08:43 ◼   ► On an iPad, if you run into a limitation or a snag,

01:08:46 ◼   ► you are usually out of luck.

01:08:48 ◼   ► You just can't.

01:08:49 ◼   ► Like this thing that you wanna do, it just won't happen.

01:08:51 ◼   ► You can't.

01:08:52 ◼   ► Sometimes you're at the whims of the developers

01:08:55 ◼   ► of iPad apps, which are always an afterthought.

01:08:59 ◼   ► Sometimes you're at the whims of iPad OS itself,

01:09:03 ◼   ► which, hate to tell ya,

01:09:05 ◼   ► is also usually an afterthought to Apple.

01:09:07 ◼   ► 'Cause that's one of the other problems here.

01:09:10 ◼   ► iPad OS gets relatively little attention from Apple.

01:09:13 ◼   ► It is a relatively low priority.

01:09:15 ◼   ► Believe me, as a Mac user, I can spot the signs of this.

01:09:19 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:09:20 ◼   ► People always expect, like everyone's expecting

01:09:23 ◼   ► that at WBC this year, there's gonna be some kind of

01:09:26 ◼   ► massive new upgrade to iPad OS

01:09:28 ◼   ► to take advantage of all this new hardware.

01:09:30 ◼   ► I hate to break it to you, that's unlikely to happen.

01:09:33 ◼   ► I would bet strongly against that.

01:09:35 ◼   ► Here's what's probably going to happen this year at WBC.

01:09:38 ◼   ► We're gonna hear all about a ton of new AI-based features

01:09:41 ◼   ► and a ton of new improvements to iOS.

01:09:43 ◼   ► Some of them are gonna be only on the phone

01:09:46 ◼   ► and not on the iPad.

01:09:48 ◼   ► And the iPad might get them next year or the year after.

01:09:51 ◼   ► What the iPad will get this year will be a couple of,

01:09:54 ◼   ► you know, a trickle of kind of token updates

01:09:58 ◼   ► just to keep it going, give it a small section

01:10:00 ◼   ► in the keynote, because most of the attention

01:10:03 ◼   ► has been focused probably on iOS for this year,

01:10:06 ◼   ► if it is as big of an iOS update as we think it is.

01:10:08 ◼   ► - No one out there thinks this year

01:10:10 ◼   ► that there's no rumors about a big overhaul of iPad OS

01:10:13 ◼   ► to become more capable.

01:10:15 ◼   ► That may happen, I'm just saying there aren't actually

01:10:17 ◼   ► current rumors about this.

01:10:18 ◼   ► I really don't think anyone is thinking that,

01:10:19 ◼   ► especially since so many years of people wishing

01:10:22 ◼   ► and hoping for that with no rumors and not getting it.

01:10:25 ◼   ► I think this year, same deal.

01:10:27 ◼   ► There are no rumors that I'm aware of that that is coming

01:10:30 ◼   ► and I think people are mostly in despair about it.

01:10:32 ◼   ► - Exactly, and this is the life of being an iPad power user.

01:10:37 ◼   ► You want this thing to be better at what you need it to do,

01:10:43 ◼   ► because it is really amazing hardware.

01:10:46 ◼   ► And it's let down by software, some of which is Apple's fault

01:10:51 ◼   ► some of which is not Apple's fault, like third party stuff.

01:10:54 ◼   ► One of the cases where I could very easily use an iPad

01:10:57 ◼   ► is when I'm running the sound for my town meetings.

01:11:01 ◼   ► It involves two laptops, one of them is at the mixing console

01:11:05 ◼   ► hosting the Zoom call.

01:11:07 ◼   ► The other one is on a table being the remote second host,

01:11:13 ◼   ► so I can kick people out if they come and spam it

01:11:16 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:11:18 ◼   ► That one has to not be playing any audio,

01:11:20 ◼   ► because it would just be echoing back into the room.

01:11:23 ◼   ► On a Mac, you just hold the volume down button all the way

01:11:27 ◼   ► and it goes down to zero and you proceed with your day.

01:11:30 ◼   ► On an iPad, the Zoom app on iPad, as far as I know,

01:11:34 ◼   ► as far as I could tell, will not let you set it

01:11:37 ◼   ► to no volume.

01:11:38 ◼   ► If you turn the volume all the way down

01:11:39 ◼   ► in the Zoom app for iPad, it will turn it back up

01:11:41 ◼   ► to the first notch.

01:11:43 ◼   ► - What?

01:11:43 ◼   ► I didn't know that.

01:11:44 ◼   ► - And I cannot find any way to override that,

01:11:46 ◼   ► 'cause there actually is an iOS API to change the volume.

01:11:51 ◼   ► It's been deprecated for like 12 years, but it's there,

01:11:54 ◼   ► and they're using it, I think.

01:11:55 ◼   ► So you just can't, unless I plug in a dummy headphone cable

01:12:00 ◼   ► or something through the zero headphone ports it has.

01:12:03 ◼   ► - Right, if you just plug in the USB-C headphone adapter,

01:12:05 ◼   ► even if there's no headphones, would that be enough?

01:12:07 ◼   ► - Maybe, but probably, who knows?

01:12:10 ◼   ► I'd probably have to plug in a cable or something.

01:12:12 ◼   ► But there's little things like that.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Whenever I use an iPad for anything other than

01:12:19 ◼   ► casual couch browsing and email,

01:12:22 ◼   ► I run into something like that.

01:12:24 ◼   ► Again, you run into a wall with an iPad,

01:12:25 ◼   ► and usually there is not much you can do about it.

01:12:28 ◼   ► In that context, I wanna turn the volume all the way down

01:12:30 ◼   ► for the Zoom call.

01:12:31 ◼   ► Well, too bad.

01:12:32 ◼   ► Maybe if you get a hardware hack, like get a headphone

01:12:35 ◼   ► dongle and plug in an empty wire, maybe.

01:12:37 ◼   ► But what if I don't have one of those with me right now,

01:12:40 ◼   ► or I don't own one?

01:12:41 ◼   ► You know, there's been so many problems with iPadOS.

01:12:44 ◼   ► And so I think that there are so many frustrations

01:12:48 ◼   ► with the iPad that a lot of people feel,

01:12:51 ◼   ► but all the people out there who are using it every day

01:12:53 ◼   ► just fine don't feel them.

01:12:54 ◼   ► And so it can be hard to discuss them,

01:12:56 ◼   ► and all those people who are using it just fine

01:12:58 ◼   ► can so easily tell the people who want it to be different,

01:13:02 ◼   ► hey, you're using the wrong tool,

01:13:03 ◼   ► you should just use a Mac or whatever.

01:13:05 ◼   ► And in the short term, that's generally true.

01:13:09 ◼   ► That is the solution in the short term.

01:13:12 ◼   ► If you are constantly battling the iPad

01:13:14 ◼   ► to get your power user work done,

01:13:16 ◼   ► you should probably be using a Mac.

01:13:17 ◼   ► That is probably the better tool for the job

01:13:19 ◼   ► in a lot of those cases.

01:13:20 ◼   ► And the iPad is fine to continue to appeal to,

01:13:25 ◼   ► you know, the cheaper iPads have a pretty broad base,

01:13:28 ◼   ► and the really expensive iPads, I think,

01:13:29 ◼   ► have pretty narrow appeals and pretty narrow markets.

01:13:33 ◼   ► And it can stay this way forever.

01:13:35 ◼   ► It probably will, 'cause Apple is not investing heavily

01:13:38 ◼   ► in iPad OS, as far as we can tell from the outside.

01:13:42 ◼   ► But if Apple wants to push the iPad market further,

01:13:47 ◼   ► if Apple wants to improve iPad sales

01:13:50 ◼   ► and increase this market size for the higher priced models,

01:13:55 ◼   ► they're gonna have to do something.

01:13:56 ◼   ► But I don't see them doing it.

01:13:58 ◼   ► Again, I think it's a low priority.

01:13:59 ◼   ► And it can be frustrating every time new iPads come out,

01:14:04 ◼   ► all of us people who are like not quite satisfied

01:14:06 ◼   ► or not able to do our jobs on the iPad,

01:14:08 ◼   ► we're like, all right, hey Apple, by the way,

01:14:09 ◼   ► we would love to use this cool hardware you've made.

01:14:12 ◼   ► Can you just maybe give us feature or capability X, Y, Z?

01:14:16 ◼   ► And every couple years, Apple comes back and is like,

01:14:19 ◼   ► we made it faster.

01:14:21 ◼   ► And we're like, okay, thanks.

01:14:22 ◼   ► However, that doesn't really solve our problem.

01:14:25 ◼   ► As fast as it is, it still can't do

01:14:27 ◼   ► these basic features X, Y, and Z.

01:14:29 ◼   ► Couple years later, Apple goes back and is like,

01:14:31 ◼   ► now it's even faster.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Like, okay, that's, okay, thanks,

01:14:34 ◼   ► but you're still not really changing anything else

01:14:39 ◼   ► that could broaden this market or make me

01:14:41 ◼   ► or somebody like me able to use this.

01:14:43 ◼   ► And Apple's like, okay, we hear you, thanks.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Okay, now, this new model we come out with,

01:14:48 ◼   ► it's more pro than ever.

01:14:51 ◼   ► It's even faster.

01:14:52 ◼   ► Like, oh my God, like, so that's what's happening

01:14:55 ◼   ► like every few years.

01:14:58 ◼   ► We go through the same cycle

01:14:59 ◼   ► and we're gonna keep going through it.

01:15:01 ◼   ► Ultimately, I think the solution is just

01:15:05 ◼   ► the Mac continuing to get better.

01:15:06 ◼   ► And for most people who are not able

01:15:10 ◼   ► to do your work on an iPad,

01:15:12 ◼   ► you're probably still not able to do your work on an iPad.

01:15:16 ◼   ► You probably will never be able to do all of your work

01:15:18 ◼   ► on an iPad with the current rate of improvement

01:15:20 ◼   ► of iPad OS and change and everything.

01:15:22 ◼   ► And so the right tool for your job

01:15:24 ◼   ► is probably some other type of computer, most likely a Mac.

01:15:27 ◼   ► It sucks that Apple won't make a Mac

01:15:29 ◼   ► with a great OLED screen and that price and size range.

01:15:31 ◼   ► It sucks that Apple won't make a Mac with cellular.

01:15:33 ◼   ► It sucks that Apple won't make a Mac

01:15:34 ◼   ► that is convertible to a tablet.

01:15:36 ◼   ► It sucks that Apple won't make a Mac with pencil input.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Like, there's all these different things

01:15:39 ◼   ► that Apple won't do because they view the iPad

01:15:41 ◼   ► as the tool to do that.

01:15:42 ◼   ► And for all of us whose work is impossible

01:15:46 ◼   ► or very difficult on an iPad,

01:15:47 ◼   ► it is kind of a slap in the face

01:15:49 ◼   ► with all the cool hardware that the iPad line gets.

01:15:51 ◼   ► But that's the reality of it.

01:15:52 ◼   ► And for those of us who are that way,

01:15:54 ◼   ► I strongly suggest buy a MacBook Air for the same money

01:15:59 ◼   ► and about the same size and weight.

01:16:01 ◼   ► Buy a MacBook Air and use it wherever you use an iPad.

01:16:04 ◼   ► It's gonna be a lot better in a lot of those cases.

01:16:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, and just very quickly,

01:16:08 ◼   ► I think I'll speak for myself

01:16:09 ◼   ► and I think I'm speaking for Marco

01:16:11 ◼   ► that part of the reason we're begging

01:16:13 ◼   ► to get better software on the iPad

01:16:18 ◼   ► is because I love the physical iPad.

01:16:22 ◼   ► I love the device.

01:16:24 ◼   ► I feel like having something that is modular,

01:16:27 ◼   ► which is a drum that Federico has been banging

01:16:29 ◼   ► for a long time,

01:16:30 ◼   ► having something that's modular that can be now

01:16:33 ◼   ► the thinnest device Apple makes if you want it to be,

01:16:35 ◼   ► or it can be extremely thin and have a keyboard,

01:16:38 ◼   ► or it can be extremely thin

01:16:40 ◼   ► and have just a cover around it like John has.

01:16:43 ◼   ► The fact that it can be that flexible,

01:16:45 ◼   ► the fact that it has cellular,

01:16:46 ◼   ► the fact that it can do all these things,

01:16:49 ◼   ► I feel like the hardware is capable

01:16:52 ◼   ► of being all things to all people if it wants to be.

01:16:54 ◼   ► And I want it to be because I'm jealous

01:16:56 ◼   ► of the people that can do everything they need on the iPad.

01:16:59 ◼   ► I wanna be able to do everything that I need on the iPad.

01:17:02 ◼   ► I wish so desperately that I could,

01:17:05 ◼   ► but right now I just can't and that's what sucks.

01:17:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the thing is the iPad,

01:17:11 ◼   ► it has to, for those of us who we can't do everything

01:17:15 ◼   ► on the iPad, then it has to justify itself to us somehow.

01:17:19 ◼   ► We love this hardware.

01:17:21 ◼   ► We want a reason, and it isn't just,

01:17:24 ◼   ► we don't just want an iPad that runs Mac OS.

01:17:27 ◼   ► We also want the benefits of iPad OS.

01:17:30 ◼   ► That's the frustrating thing.

01:17:32 ◼   ► The thing is you have to justify the iPad purchase

01:17:35 ◼   ► and you have to justify carrying it around

01:17:36 ◼   ► and keeping it charged and keeping it updated

01:17:38 ◼   ► and keeping it maintained and getting the accessories for it

01:17:41 ◼   ► but for most people, again, you have a phone already

01:17:45 ◼   ► and you're probably gonna have a Mac of some kind,

01:17:48 ◼   ► like a Mac laptop already.

01:17:50 ◼   ► And so it's very hard for the iPad to justify itself

01:17:55 ◼   ► to be brought with you to be purchased in the first place

01:17:58 ◼   ► and then to be brought with you when traveling,

01:18:00 ◼   ► everyone going around and stuff like that

01:18:03 ◼   ► because most things that you can do on an iPad,

01:18:07 ◼   ► you can also do on an iPhone.

01:18:09 ◼   ► And if you keep needing that Mac escape hatch to do things,

01:18:14 ◼   ► it's very easy to just fall back into,

01:18:16 ◼   ► I'm just gonna bring an iPhone and a MacBook Air.

01:18:19 ◼   ► And again, for most people, that is the better choice.

01:18:22 ◼   ► In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that.

01:18:24 ◼   ► I love that combination.

01:18:25 ◼   ► There's a reason it's so popular.

01:18:27 ◼   ► It's a very, very good combination.

01:18:29 ◼   ► But again, if Apple wants to broaden the market

01:18:31 ◼   ► for high-end iPads, they're gonna have to do a lot more

01:18:35 ◼   ► than just make it faster.

01:18:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, and just very quickly,

01:18:38 ◼   ► and John, you've been very patient and I appreciate it,

01:18:41 ◼   ► but just very quickly, I also,

01:18:43 ◼   ► and Marco kind of hinted at this or said this

01:18:45 ◼   ► just a second ago, I don't necessarily want Apple

01:18:48 ◼   ► to just can iPad OS and give me 100% of the time

01:18:52 ◼   ► Mac OS and the iPad.

01:18:53 ◼   ► That's why Jason's idea of virtualization,

01:18:55 ◼   ► I find so interesting and appealing

01:18:57 ◼   ► because it gives me the escape hatch, the option of Mac OS.

01:19:01 ◼   ► Again, I don't think that's the rightest answer,

01:19:03 ◼   ► but if nothing else, it would give me the option

01:19:06 ◼   ► to drop into Mac OS when necessary.

01:19:08 ◼   ► But for general stuff, for most of the time

01:19:11 ◼   ► that I'm on the iPad, I prefer iPad OS.

01:19:14 ◼   ► I don't want iPad OS to be that different.

01:19:18 ◼   ► You know, one of the things when Swift first came out

01:19:20 ◼   ► was that they claimed at the time,

01:19:22 ◼   ► I'm not so sure they achieved the mission,

01:19:23 ◼   ► but they claimed at the time that it was very good at,

01:19:27 ◼   ► oh shoot, the name just flew out of me,

01:19:29 ◼   ► progressive disclosure, there you go.

01:19:30 ◼   ► So over time, Swift should be simple to approach,

01:19:34 ◼   ► even though I'm not so sure it is,

01:19:35 ◼   ► but go with me on the theory.

01:19:37 ◼   ► - It's not.

01:19:38 ◼   ► - Right, but go with me on the theory, right?

01:19:40 ◼   ► It should be simple to approach and over time,

01:19:42 ◼   ► as you want more and more out of Swift,

01:19:44 ◼   ► it will return with more and more tools

01:19:47 ◼   ► with which to accomplish those tasks.

01:19:49 ◼   ► And that's what I want out of an iPad.

01:19:51 ◼   ► For most of the time I'm using the iPad, I want iPad OS.

01:19:54 ◼   ► I don't want all the cruft and complexity of Mac OS,

01:19:59 ◼   ► except when I do, or except when I don't have another choice

01:20:02 ◼   ► and that's when.

01:20:02 ◼   ► And so I don't want anyone who's listening to this

01:20:06 ◼   ► to come away from the conversation saying,

01:20:08 ◼   ► oh well, you know, Casey and Marco think that iPads suck

01:20:10 ◼   ► and that only doofuses can use them.

01:20:12 ◼   ► Far from it.

01:20:13 ◼   ► That's exactly opposite from what we're saying.

01:20:17 ◼   ► I love iPad OS and I love my iPad,

01:20:19 ◼   ► I just wish I could do more with it.

01:20:22 ◼   ► So John, we've been talking a long time,

01:20:24 ◼   ► you've been so very patient, thank you again.

01:20:25 ◼   ► What should we really be saying right now?

01:20:28 ◼   ► What should we be thinking?

01:20:29 ◼   ► - Well, we talked about the iPad, the hardware.

01:20:32 ◼   ► Last episode we said is like,

01:20:34 ◼   ► obviously this is just a hardware announcement,

01:20:36 ◼   ► they're not announcing a new version of iPad OS,

01:20:38 ◼   ► that'll come with WWDC, we'll talk about it then.

01:20:40 ◼   ► So you may be wondering why we're talking

01:20:41 ◼   ► about this topic now.

01:20:43 ◼   ► Well, this is before WWDC,

01:20:45 ◼   ► so whatever they're gonna do with WWDC,

01:20:47 ◼   ► and again, there's no rumors that they're doing

01:20:49 ◼   ► any kind of big overhaul, but maybe they kept it secret,

01:20:51 ◼   ► who knows, but anyway, this is the time

01:20:54 ◼   ► when people remain dissatisfied with the software story

01:20:57 ◼   ► because they haven't given us the new software story

01:21:00 ◼   ► for this year yet, right?

01:21:01 ◼   ► And the reason it's kind of like,

01:21:03 ◼   ► seems to be louder each year is because I think,

01:21:07 ◼   ► Marco's characterization of what pro people

01:21:09 ◼   ► have been wanting on the iPad is a little bit off.

01:21:11 ◼   ► What's been happening actually is people wanna do more

01:21:14 ◼   ► with their iPads, and Apple has been over the past many,

01:21:17 ◼   ► many years giving us a slow trickle of expanded capability.

01:21:22 ◼   ► iPad OS, and before that iOS on the iPad,

01:21:25 ◼   ► has had its capabilities expanded year after year

01:21:28 ◼   ► after year after year just enough to keep that glimmer

01:21:32 ◼   ► of hope, not enough to be really useful,

01:21:35 ◼   ► but they're essentially leading us on.

01:21:37 ◼   ► If they just never added any capabilities

01:21:40 ◼   ► to the iPad software-wise, we would have given up,

01:21:43 ◼   ► we wouldn't have been so angry.

01:21:44 ◼   ► I think the anger comes from the fact that we see

01:21:46 ◼   ► that they're making changes.

01:21:47 ◼   ► They have added so much.

01:21:49 ◼   ► Be able to use external drives, file access,

01:21:52 ◼   ► all the pencil stuff, like just the stage manager,

01:21:55 ◼   ► the multitasking, it's not like they're doing nothing,

01:21:58 ◼   ► but they are not doing enough.

01:21:59 ◼   ► And to characterize that like not doing enough,

01:22:02 ◼   ► like I think Viticci had a good article this year.

01:22:05 ◼   ► He said, "Not an iPad Pro review.

01:22:06 ◼   ► "Why iPad OS still doesn't get the basics right."

01:22:09 ◼   ► Viticci is a super duper iPad power user

01:22:12 ◼   ► and has been for years and years, right?

01:22:14 ◼   ► And he complains about the software situation all the time.

01:22:16 ◼   ► And this year he got to the point where like,

01:22:17 ◼   ► "You know what, I've been complaining about this

01:22:19 ◼   ► "in everything that I've written about the iPad

01:22:21 ◼   ► "for years and years and years,

01:22:22 ◼   ► "but people can't be expected to go back

01:22:24 ◼   ► "through the whole history and gather up all this knowledge.

01:22:27 ◼   ► "Let me just summarize in a single article

01:22:29 ◼   ► "what I mean when I say that the iPad is falling down."

01:22:32 ◼   ► And here's the thing about that.

01:22:33 ◼   ► I think that those of us who want more capabilities

01:22:37 ◼   ► out of the iPad understand,

01:22:40 ◼   ► at least certainly at a surface level,

01:22:42 ◼   ► why the people who enjoy the iPad

01:22:45 ◼   ► and don't need any more capabilities do so.

01:22:48 ◼   ► We understand, again, as Casey said, it applies to us.

01:22:51 ◼   ► We get it, we get the appeal of the iPad,

01:22:54 ◼   ► the simplicity, the people who do not care,

01:22:57 ◼   ► don't want the iPad to do any more.

01:22:59 ◼   ► They're like, "It's fine, I don't need

01:23:01 ◼   ► "any more software features, I like the iPad."

01:23:03 ◼   ► We understand them.

01:23:04 ◼   ► I think the reverse is not always true.

01:23:07 ◼   ► And that's part of the conflict here.

01:23:08 ◼   ► The reverse is the people who are happy

01:23:09 ◼   ► with the software capabilities of the iPad

01:23:12 ◼   ► don't quite understand what is it that these people want.

01:23:14 ◼   ► They keep saying they want it to be more pro

01:23:16 ◼   ► and they want capabilities.

01:23:17 ◼   ► What the hell does that actually mean?

01:23:19 ◼   ► So I appreciate Petichi literally writing down,

01:23:22 ◼   ► it's his list, but it is a good representative list.

01:23:24 ◼   ► And you can read through this and say,

01:23:26 ◼   ► this is what those people mean.

01:23:28 ◼   ► So that both camps can understand each other,

01:23:30 ◼   ► to Marco's point, so that it's not as contentious.

01:23:32 ◼   ► And again, I think the people who want more capabilities,

01:23:35 ◼   ► we do understand the appeal of the people,

01:23:38 ◼   ► the vast majority of people who enjoy their iPads

01:23:40 ◼   ► and don't need any more capabilities.

01:23:42 ◼   ► There needs to be understanding in the other direction.

01:23:44 ◼   ► Steve Trout and Smith also wrote a thing,

01:23:46 ◼   ► the iPad Pro Manifesto 2024 edition,

01:23:48 ◼   ► which he gives his list of capabilities

01:23:50 ◼   ► that he would want out of it.

01:23:51 ◼   ► There's a lot of overlap between the lists.

01:23:53 ◼   ► If you read both these articles,

01:23:54 ◼   ► we'll link them in the show notes.

01:23:55 ◼   ► I think it will give you an idea of like,

01:23:57 ◼   ► what is it that these nerds are talking about?

01:23:59 ◼   ► Why do they want their iPad to do something?

01:24:02 ◼   ► Like they can't even, like,

01:24:03 ◼   ► my iPad does everything that I already wanted it to do.

01:24:05 ◼   ► And they don't even have like the fancy iPads.

01:24:07 ◼   ► So I'm like, if you don't like the expensive iPads,

01:24:08 ◼   ► just don't buy it, it's not for you, right?

01:24:11 ◼   ► And as Marco said, the reason tech nerds

01:24:14 ◼   ► in particular are always, you know,

01:24:16 ◼   ► sort of always wanting the iPads to do more

01:24:19 ◼   ► is because we know, we know from the hardware specs,

01:24:21 ◼   ► even before the Macs had the same stuff,

01:24:23 ◼   ► we knew from the hardware specs

01:24:25 ◼   ► as the iPad got more and more powerful,

01:24:26 ◼   ► we're like, you know what?

01:24:28 ◼   ► That's a powerful general purpose computer in there.

01:24:31 ◼   ► The hardware in there is getting to be laptop class.

01:24:33 ◼   ► Now it is faster than many Apple laptops, right?

01:24:36 ◼   ► And so we see that and we know

01:24:38 ◼   ► you can do more with that OS.

01:24:40 ◼   ► Remember the, you know, iPad OS is basically,

01:24:43 ◼   ► you know, it's iOS with rebadged or whatever.

01:24:46 ◼   ► See, Trautensmith points out that it's not even

01:24:48 ◼   ► a separate project, I think it's the same sort

01:24:49 ◼   ► of OS root of files and it just decides what to run.

01:24:51 ◼   ► You know, it's not as separate as you might think

01:24:53 ◼   ► it would be, the EU has also decided

01:24:55 ◼   ► that it's not as separate as you might think.

01:24:56 ◼   ► Anyway, like, it is derived from iOS.

01:25:01 ◼   ► iOS was originally an operating system meant to run

01:25:04 ◼   ► on a phone with incredibly weak hardware.

01:25:06 ◼   ► No multitasking, one app at a time, no copy and paste,

01:25:10 ◼   ► like just incredibly limited.

01:25:12 ◼   ► And it has grown over the years, the phones have also

01:25:13 ◼   ► gotten more powerful over the years.

01:25:15 ◼   ► But fundamentally, it was an operating system designed

01:25:19 ◼   ► around the limitations of the hardware.

01:25:21 ◼   ► And then we look at the modern iPad Pro and we say,

01:25:23 ◼   ► what limitations of the hardware?

01:25:25 ◼   ► What does an M4 base 16 gigabytes of RAM, one terabyte SSD,

01:25:30 ◼   ► amazing high resolution 13 inch screen,

01:25:34 ◼   ► remind me again what the hardware limitations are

01:25:36 ◼   ► on this device, such that it has to have

01:25:39 ◼   ► an entirely different model of like multitasking

01:25:42 ◼   ► and process management and everything to fit

01:25:45 ◼   ► within the hardware that is vastly more powerful

01:25:48 ◼   ► than any laptop Apple has ever made.

01:25:50 ◼   ► Like tech nerds understand that.

01:25:52 ◼   ► That's why we see like this could do more.

01:25:55 ◼   ► The hardware is there, the limitations,

01:25:58 ◼   ► the arguments for it weren't there.

01:25:58 ◼   ► And so we wanted to do more.

01:26:00 ◼   ► There's things we know we can't do that we need to do

01:26:02 ◼   ► as part of our weird work that we do.

01:26:05 ◼   ► And it's frustrating.

01:26:06 ◼   ► And the fun conspiracy theories are like,

01:26:09 ◼   ► oh, they don't wanna do that 'cause they'll eat

01:26:11 ◼   ► into Mac sales or whatever.

01:26:13 ◼   ► I don't think any of that is true, first of all,

01:26:14 ◼   ► because Apple loves to eat into its own sales

01:26:17 ◼   ► with a new product.

01:26:17 ◼   ► It does it all the time.

01:26:18 ◼   ► It wants you to buy the new thing and not the old thing.

01:26:21 ◼   ► And if anything, if you wanted to subscribe

01:26:23 ◼   ► to a conspiracy theory, which I don't,

01:26:25 ◼   ► you should look at the Mac and say,

01:26:28 ◼   ► why the heck is Apple not allowing,

01:26:30 ◼   ► why are they not making a touchscreen Mac?

01:26:32 ◼   ► Because the Apple Pencil, like a convertible Mac

01:26:34 ◼   ► that you use the Apple Pencil with,

01:26:35 ◼   ► the Apple Pencil works perfectly good in Mac OS.

01:26:36 ◼   ► You don't even need to redesign the OS.

01:26:38 ◼   ► Like it's a precision pointing device

01:26:39 ◼   ► and you could draw on it and you get a procreate on Mac OS

01:26:41 ◼   ► 'cause it runs iPad apps.

01:26:42 ◼   ► And like, why are they not doing that?

01:26:44 ◼   ► Because they don't wanna cut into the iPad sales.

01:26:46 ◼   ► Also not the reason, but a fun conspiracy theory.

01:26:49 ◼   ► The real reason is Apple just has decided

01:26:50 ◼   ► this is how they've divided their product line.

01:26:52 ◼   ► They have the big no slide is Mac OS and iPad OS merging.

01:26:55 ◼   ► No, whatever.

01:26:57 ◼   ► We'll revisit that in a few years.

01:26:58 ◼   ► But anyway, this is how they've divided things up

01:27:02 ◼   ► and it's just not satisfactory for a certain class of people.

01:27:06 ◼   ► Now, having said all that and thinking about this,

01:27:09 ◼   ► like the reason, another reason people are angry about this

01:27:12 ◼   ► was the whole iPad is the promise

01:27:15 ◼   ► of the future of computing, right?

01:27:16 ◼   ► This is gonna be the post PC era.

01:27:19 ◼   ► We're all gonna be using iPads.

01:27:21 ◼   ► And it's, this is what computer is gonna be like

01:27:23 ◼   ► in the future.

01:27:25 ◼   ► They're not going to be like the Macs and the PCs

01:27:27 ◼   ► of the days of yore.

01:27:28 ◼   ► When Steve Jobs was still around, he introduced the iPad.

01:27:30 ◼   ► It was so clear to me that essentially the iPad

01:27:32 ◼   ► is what he wished the original Macintosh could have been

01:27:35 ◼   ► if technology was magic and it existed back then.

01:27:38 ◼   ► A real computer for the rest of us.

01:27:39 ◼   ► And this is the thing I think most people forget

01:27:41 ◼   ► about the iPad.

01:27:42 ◼   ► It's true of our phones as well.

01:27:44 ◼   ► But I think people realize it about the phones

01:27:46 ◼   ► or maybe don't because they just take it for granted.

01:27:48 ◼   ► But like the reason people love the iPads,

01:27:50 ◼   ► Casey got out of it before, is it's a computer

01:27:52 ◼   ► that you can't screw up as easily.

01:27:54 ◼   ► Like that's the thing that people love

01:27:57 ◼   ► about the iPad versus a PC.

01:27:59 ◼   ► Even people who know perfectly well how to use a PC,

01:28:01 ◼   ► there are headaches involved using a Mac or a PC

01:28:04 ◼   ► with that operating system and those capabilities

01:28:06 ◼   ► that just don't exist on the iPad.

01:28:08 ◼   ► It feels as safe as a phone.

01:28:09 ◼   ► You can install software, there's not really much

01:28:11 ◼   ► you can do to mess it up.

01:28:12 ◼   ► It's very simple, right?

01:28:13 ◼   ► That's why people love their iPads.

01:28:14 ◼   ► Again, we understand that about it.

01:28:16 ◼   ► Here's, there is though surprisingly a little bit

01:28:20 ◼   ► of overlap between all the things that I've just discussed.

01:28:23 ◼   ► Future computing, why do people think that?

01:28:24 ◼   ► Because it has fewer problems and the capabilities.

01:28:29 ◼   ► A lot of this tech nerd discussion is like,

01:28:32 ◼   ► just make the iPad do more.

01:28:33 ◼   ► The hardware's capable, you've got an operating system

01:28:36 ◼   ► that does it, virtualized Mac OS,

01:28:37 ◼   ► which I don't think is a good idea,

01:28:38 ◼   ► but anyway, it's just like, look,

01:28:39 ◼   ► if you don't wanna figure it out, Apple,

01:28:41 ◼   ► here's a dumb solution that would work.

01:28:43 ◼   ► And they're right, it is a dumb solution to work it,

01:28:45 ◼   ► whatever, I don't think Apple's gonna do it

01:28:47 ◼   ► and it's definitely not the best solution.

01:28:48 ◼   ► But it is a solution and we're all desperate out here.

01:28:51 ◼   ► But you can't just say, make the iPad more capable

01:28:57 ◼   ► and think that it is going to preserve all of the things

01:29:01 ◼   ► that make people love the iPad and make people think

01:29:03 ◼   ► it's the future of computing, all of the problem-freeness.

01:29:05 ◼   ► And I know, like, you know, a little progressive disclosure,

01:29:07 ◼   ► if you don't care about it, it won't be there.

01:29:09 ◼   ► It's like, multitasking wasn't the beginning,

01:29:11 ◼   ► you can turn it off or if you never want

01:29:13 ◼   ► to do these capabilities, they won't bother you at all.

01:29:15 ◼   ► There is some truth to that and that is sort of

01:29:17 ◼   ► Apple's challenge, how can you add capabilities

01:29:19 ◼   ► without screwing up the iPad Pro?

01:29:21 ◼   ► But to give just one example to show this is not as simple

01:29:24 ◼   ► as you think it is, last episode I was complaining about,

01:29:26 ◼   ► I was proxy complaining through,

01:29:28 ◼   ► letting Steve Trout and Smith proxy complain through me,

01:29:31 ◼   ► like Final Cut Pro, Apple finally ported Final Cut Pro

01:29:34 ◼   ► and Marco had a good point that I was going to make as well,

01:29:36 ◼   ► which is like, Apple's investment in the iPad

01:29:38 ◼   ► is another big factor in this and their investment

01:29:40 ◼   ► is not strong, let's say.

01:29:42 ◼   ► How long did it take them to make Final Cut Pro

01:29:44 ◼   ► for the iPad, a long time, right?

01:29:46 ◼   ► Anyway, Final Cut Pro, it's a pro app.

01:29:48 ◼   ► If you're doing video work, you can do it on your iPad,

01:29:50 ◼   ► amazing, it's great, you go to render a complicated project,

01:29:53 ◼   ► you switch out of Final Cut Pro to do literally anything else

01:29:56 ◼   ► on your iPad and it stops your render.

01:29:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:29:59 ◼   ► And someone wrote in and said, are you sure?

01:30:01 ◼   ► Because Logic has an option that says run in background,

01:30:04 ◼   ► maybe they just didn't turn on the run in background option,

01:30:06 ◼   ► but no, Final Cut Pro does not have

01:30:07 ◼   ► the run in background option.

01:30:09 ◼   ► - I can guess why, by the way, it's probably,

01:30:11 ◼   ► so in iOS, typically you're not allowed to use the GPU

01:30:14 ◼   ► if you're not present foregrounded.

01:30:15 ◼   ► Logic would have no reason to use the GPU,

01:30:18 ◼   ► whereas obviously Final Cut does.

01:30:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, GPU limitations with Steve Trout and Smith's

01:30:23 ◼   ► option there, whatever, right?

01:30:24 ◼   ► So, and you may be thinking, see, this is another example.

01:30:27 ◼   ► It's iPad OS, an OS designed in a much more

01:30:29 ◼   ► resource constrained environment, has a policy

01:30:32 ◼   ► that no longer fits with the hardware.

01:30:34 ◼   ► Because if you get an M3 MacBook Pro

01:30:36 ◼   ► with the same amount of RAM as an iPad,

01:30:38 ◼   ► and it's got a slower SOC, you can run Final Cut Pro on it,

01:30:42 ◼   ► and you can start that render on your MacBook Air,

01:30:44 ◼   ► and you can switch to Safari and browse

01:30:46 ◼   ► the well bought renders.

01:30:47 ◼   ► You can do anything else on your computer

01:30:48 ◼   ► and you'll be fine, right?

01:30:49 ◼   ► And so, tech nerds look at this and it's like,

01:30:51 ◼   ► they should just let you do that on iPad OS.

01:30:55 ◼   ► Take off the training wheels, stop,

01:30:57 ◼   ► get rid of these limitations, allow applications

01:31:00 ◼   ► with the special entitlement or whatever

01:31:02 ◼   ► to run in the background and do the same thing

01:31:06 ◼   ► that a MacBook Air could do, right?

01:31:08 ◼   ► And in the end, that is what we're asking for.

01:31:10 ◼   ► But the complexity is this, if you allowed that to happen,

01:31:14 ◼   ► and you gave it to an iPad user, maybe they're rendering,

01:31:17 ◼   ► they've, I don't know, they're using Final Cut Pro,

01:31:18 ◼   ► but anyway, a typical iPad user,

01:31:20 ◼   ► they start a render or whatever,

01:31:21 ◼   ► then they go back to Springboard,

01:31:24 ◼   ► and look at that, your render's still running.

01:31:26 ◼   ► I don't know how you can tell that

01:31:27 ◼   ► because the multitasking model doesn't really show you

01:31:28 ◼   ► what other apps are doing, but anyway,

01:31:29 ◼   ► something to the side that you have a problem, right?

01:31:31 ◼   ► Then they launch a game and they try to play it,

01:31:33 ◼   ► and the frame rates are garbage

01:31:35 ◼   ► because that game was designed in a world

01:31:38 ◼   ► where when you run a game on an iPad,

01:31:39 ◼   ► it essentially gets to hog the GPU,

01:31:41 ◼   ► and it's at the ragged edge of what it's capable of,

01:31:44 ◼   ► and it gets 30 frames per second,

01:31:45 ◼   ► but only if it's got the full GPU,

01:31:46 ◼   ► and now the game is unplayable.

01:31:47 ◼   ► And the kid's like, my iPad is broken,

01:31:50 ◼   ► or the adult is like, my iPad is broken,

01:31:52 ◼   ► what the hell, does this game not work?

01:31:54 ◼   ► I'm getting garbage frame rates.

01:31:55 ◼   ► If you were on a Mac and started a Final Cut Pro render,

01:31:58 ◼   ► and then launched a game and it ran crappy,

01:32:00 ◼   ► you'd be like, oh, as a Mac user, I understand.

01:32:03 ◼   ► There's a limited pool of resources on my computer,

01:32:05 ◼   ► and if I do something complicated that requires the GPU

01:32:08 ◼   ► and then I try to play a game,

01:32:09 ◼   ► of course the game's gonna have a lower frame rate.

01:32:11 ◼   ► But that's not how anyone thinks about the iPad,

01:32:13 ◼   ► which is part of why people love the iPad,

01:32:15 ◼   ► that they don't have to think about mentally keeping track

01:32:18 ◼   ► of resource utilization.

01:32:20 ◼   ► They don't have to think when I launch a game on the iPad,

01:32:22 ◼   ► I gotta make sure I'm not running

01:32:23 ◼   ► all the other big stuff in the background,

01:32:24 ◼   ► otherwise this game's gonna have low frame rates.

01:32:26 ◼   ► That's not how people think.

01:32:27 ◼   ► They love not having to know that,

01:32:29 ◼   ► because frankly, most people don't know that.

01:32:31 ◼   ► We know that, we understand how a computer works,

01:32:33 ◼   ► so we're computer nerds, right?

01:32:34 ◼   ► People don't wanna have to know that.

01:32:36 ◼   ► They don't wanna have to remember the rules,

01:32:37 ◼   ► they don't wanna have to have an intuition

01:32:39 ◼   ► about what you can and can't do.

01:32:40 ◼   ► They just want to be able to mindlessly do stuff

01:32:43 ◼   ► on their iPad and have it all work the same way all the time

01:32:47 ◼   ► and the incredibly limited processing model on the iPad

01:32:50 ◼   ► provides that experience to them,

01:32:52 ◼   ► but it also makes it impossible to use the thing

01:32:56 ◼   ► like we would use a computer with the same capabilities.

01:32:58 ◼   ► So this is the problem in front of Apple.

01:33:00 ◼   ► I'm not saying this is an impossibility,

01:33:01 ◼   ► I'm saying this is the challenge.

01:33:03 ◼   ► It's not as simple as just open up the floodgates

01:33:06 ◼   ► or put a big switch in settings that says

01:33:07 ◼   ► I can do pro stuff or whatever.

01:33:09 ◼   ► It is actually a challenge for them

01:33:11 ◼   ► to balance these two things.

01:33:13 ◼   ► To make the computer as iPad-like as possible

01:33:17 ◼   ► and as bulletproof as possible while still allowing

01:33:19 ◼   ► the capabilities to be exploited.

01:33:22 ◼   ► Lots of them are easy, you don't have to do this problem

01:33:24 ◼   ► like of just multiple audio tracks or whatever,

01:33:27 ◼   ► that's not gonna tax the system so much,

01:33:28 ◼   ► you should just allow that.

01:33:29 ◼   ► But things like Final Cut Pro render

01:33:31 ◼   ► is really at the ragged edge of like,

01:33:33 ◼   ► look, if you allow that to run in the background,

01:33:35 ◼   ► this iPad is going to behave very differently for the users.

01:33:38 ◼   ► Or even just like an iMovie render,

01:33:40 ◼   ► if you don't wanna use Final Cut Pro like in a fantasy world

01:33:42 ◼   ► where there was a fancy version of iMovie,

01:33:43 ◼   ► it could do similar things, right?

01:33:45 ◼   ► Maybe there is, I don't even know.

01:33:46 ◼   ► There is a tension, there is a real functional

01:33:52 ◼   ► user expectation tension between expanding capability,

01:33:56 ◼   ► and that's why PCs are the way they are.

01:33:58 ◼   ► Like, oh, it's because they're legacy and they're old.

01:34:00 ◼   ► No, the thing, the model under which they work,

01:34:03 ◼   ► the things we actually do, the things they're able to do

01:34:06 ◼   ► is because they give you enough rope to hang yourself.

01:34:09 ◼   ► And that's what we need, we need enough rope

01:34:11 ◼   ► to tie a complicated knot and hopefully not hang ourselves,

01:34:14 ◼   ► because we know how to manage the resources.

01:34:16 ◼   ► We know not to run a heavy job here,

01:34:18 ◼   ► and we know if we do this over here,

01:34:19 ◼   ► then that will slow down over there.

01:34:20 ◼   ► Like, we know all these things as experienced PC

01:34:23 ◼   ► or Mac users that iPad users do not wanna know.

01:34:26 ◼   ► Or even if they do know, the relief of not having

01:34:28 ◼   ► to think about them is what makes the iPad attractive.

01:34:31 ◼   ► So yeah, virtualizing macOS is like,

01:34:35 ◼   ► don't try to figure out all the hard problems.

01:34:37 ◼   ► Just let us do this.

01:34:38 ◼   ► And it takes over the whole screen,

01:34:39 ◼   ► it takes over the whole device,

01:34:41 ◼   ► and it gets suspended when it's in the background

01:34:43 ◼   ► or whatever, but that's just really a terrible solution.

01:34:45 ◼   ► Honestly, they should just add touch and pen support

01:34:46 ◼   ► to macOS and put cellular in Apple laptops

01:34:49 ◼   ► and have that be that.

01:34:51 ◼   ► But the iPad, the plain old iPad,

01:34:54 ◼   ► can add capabilities and has been over the years.

01:34:57 ◼   ► It should just add them faster and better,

01:34:59 ◼   ► but eventually it will come up against this tension

01:35:03 ◼   ► between adding those capabilities

01:35:04 ◼   ► without ruining the iPad-ness.

01:35:06 ◼   ► And that, I think, is another source of conflict,

01:35:07 ◼   ► 'cause when people who like the iPad

01:35:09 ◼   ► for what it is here us talking,

01:35:10 ◼   ► they think you're gonna ruin my iPad,

01:35:12 ◼   ► and they're not 100% wrong.

01:35:15 ◼   ► They're only maybe like 80% wrong.

01:35:16 ◼   ► Like, we don't wanna ruin the iPad,

01:35:19 ◼   ► but it is possible to ruin the iPad by saying,

01:35:23 ◼   ► it's like a Mac, you can do whatever you want,

01:35:25 ◼   ► because that puts them back into the world

01:35:27 ◼   ► where they have to think about this stuff.

01:35:28 ◼   ► And honestly, they don't wanna have to think about it.

01:35:30 ◼   ► And in general, it's why PCs and Macs

01:35:32 ◼   ► are such a mystery to so many people.

01:35:34 ◼   ► Like, something isn't working and they don't know why,

01:35:36 ◼   ► they don't wanna have to diagnose it,

01:35:37 ◼   ► they don't wanna have to figure out why,

01:35:39 ◼   ► and this is the magic of the iPad.

01:35:41 ◼   ► It never asks them to figure out

01:35:42 ◼   ► why it's not working the way they expect.

01:35:44 ◼   ► It never asks them to diagnose it,

01:35:45 ◼   ► not never, but like way less than a Mac or a PC.

01:35:48 ◼   ► So I don't envy the task before Apple,

01:35:51 ◼   ► but I do wish they would A, put way more resources into it,

01:35:53 ◼   ► and B, be a little bit less cautious,

01:35:56 ◼   ► because at their current rate of advancement,

01:35:59 ◼   ► the anger boiling up about the software situation

01:36:02 ◼   ► on the iPad is just, it's getting untenable for Apple.

01:36:06 ◼   ► One stat to throw out there from one of the press things

01:36:09 ◼   ► that might have been one of these interviews

01:36:10 ◼   ► that we just read from before,

01:36:12 ◼   ► I think Jaws said this,

01:36:13 ◼   ► and so I'll take his word for the numbers.

01:36:16 ◼   ► I don't know if you guys read this.

01:36:18 ◼   ► What percentage of Mac users do you think own an iPad?

01:36:22 ◼   ► - A third?

01:36:23 ◼   ► - I would say very low.

01:36:24 ◼   ► I'd say like something like five or 10%, maybe.

01:36:27 ◼   ► - So Jaws, I believe it was Jaws,

01:36:29 ◼   ► and so again, this is directly from Apple,

01:36:30 ◼   ► and I'm pretty sure he's not picking up these numbers

01:36:32 ◼   ► off the app, he said,

01:36:33 ◼   ► more than half of Mac users own an iPad.

01:36:35 ◼   ► - What? - Wow.

01:36:36 ◼   ► - I would not have guessed that.

01:36:38 ◼   ► Now the reason we're thinking that

01:36:39 ◼   ► is 'cause we don't realize how few Macs are sold.

01:36:41 ◼   ► He didn't say more than half of iPhone users.

01:36:43 ◼   ► Okay, let's get a grip here.

01:36:44 ◼   ► He said more than half of Mac users,

01:36:45 ◼   ► but still, we as Mac users are thinking like, really?

01:36:48 ◼   ► And I think part of that is because, again,

01:36:51 ◼   ► all of us have uses in our lives or in our families

01:36:54 ◼   ► for the iPad that are right in its sweet spot.

01:36:57 ◼   ► That, you know, I'm watching video online,

01:37:01 ◼   ► for crying out loud.

01:37:02 ◼   ► There are plenty of uses that are right in the sweet spot.

01:37:04 ◼   ► So even the people who are complaining,

01:37:06 ◼   ► those same people either have iPads

01:37:08 ◼   ► or someone in their family has an iPad, probably,

01:37:11 ◼   ► that it doesn't, they use it without requiring

01:37:13 ◼   ► any of these complicated capabilities.

01:37:15 ◼   ► They just use it right in that sweet spot

01:37:16 ◼   ► for simple, low stress, so like,

01:37:18 ◼   ► we all are benefiting from that angle of the iPad.

01:37:22 ◼   ► And I think that's why there are so many iPads out there,

01:37:25 ◼   ► because it's like, we'll keep buying 'em,

01:37:27 ◼   ► again, when the old one breaks or whatever,

01:37:29 ◼   ► because we do use it in that way.

01:37:32 ◼   ► But the tech nerd in us still says,

01:37:34 ◼   ► yeah, but the really good ones,

01:37:36 ◼   ► that hardware should be able to do more,

01:37:38 ◼   ► and it annoys us, and especially if you buy them

01:37:41 ◼   ► and you keep hoping this OS update will be the one,

01:37:43 ◼   ► or you keep trying to find a way to do your work,

01:37:45 ◼   ► or Apple finally puts out a new app and you try it,

01:37:47 ◼   ► but there's one little limitation

01:37:48 ◼   ► that's bothering you or whatever.

01:37:50 ◼   ► Like, they're not denying us everything.

01:37:53 ◼   ► They're just giving us just enough to keep leading us on,

01:37:56 ◼   ► and we keep following them through it all.

01:37:58 ◼   ► And in the meantime, we are all benefiting

01:38:00 ◼   ► from all the things the iPad is good at,

01:38:02 ◼   ► that attach rate, to use your terms,

01:38:04 ◼   ► from before Margot, the attach rate of like,

01:38:06 ◼   ► I wouldn't say it's attached to the Mac, but anyway.

01:38:09 ◼   ► More than half the Mac users owning an iPad,

01:38:11 ◼   ► that is very surprising to me.

01:38:14 ◼   ► And there was another thing that showed a chart

01:38:16 ◼   ► of some third-party thing, saying like,

01:38:17 ◼   ► the average age of iPads when they're replaced,

01:38:19 ◼   ► and as you can imagine, they're older than you might think,

01:38:21 ◼   ► because iPads last a long time,

01:38:23 ◼   ► and until someone sits on them,

01:38:24 ◼   ► or until the battery gets really bad,

01:38:25 ◼   ► or until they're really slow and buggy,

01:38:27 ◼   ► we just use them until they're dead,

01:38:28 ◼   ► and then you get another one,

01:38:29 ◼   ► 'cause we gotta have an iPad in the house,

01:38:30 ◼   ► because person XYZ uses it to watch TV,

01:38:33 ◼   ► or browse the web on the couch, or whatever.

01:38:36 ◼   ► That role is secure, but the hardware is so good,

01:38:40 ◼   ► Apple should find a way to allow it to do more

01:38:43 ◼   ► without destroying what's good about it.

01:38:45 ◼   ► And I think it's possible,

01:38:47 ◼   ► and I think Apple is trying to do it,

01:38:48 ◼   ► they're just doing it way too slowly,

01:38:50 ◼   ► and probably with not enough resources.

01:38:53 ◼   ► - All right, let's do a couple of quick AskATPs,

01:38:55 ◼   ► or hopefully anyway.

01:38:57 ◼   ► Rumi Ahmed writes, "With the new M4

01:38:59 ◼   ► "and its updated display drivers,

01:39:01 ◼   ► "is there a possibility now that the base chip

01:39:02 ◼   ► "can support two external displays

01:39:04 ◼   ► "with the laptop lid open natively?"

01:39:07 ◼   ► I don't think so, but I'm honestly not sure.

01:39:11 ◼   ► John, what's the answer here?

01:39:12 ◼   ► - So there's been a lot of stories

01:39:13 ◼   ► about the new display driver,

01:39:15 ◼   ► which Apple talked about in the event,

01:39:17 ◼   ► and by talked about, I mean they said

01:39:18 ◼   ► we have a new display driver.

01:39:20 ◼   ► They didn't give any technical details,

01:39:21 ◼   ► and people are speculating,

01:39:22 ◼   ► as we speculated on the last episode.

01:39:24 ◼   ► Is that because of dual layer display?

01:39:26 ◼   ► Is there some controlling on the SOC level

01:39:28 ◼   ► to drive the two-layer display,

01:39:30 ◼   ► or is there a driver chip between that handles that,

01:39:33 ◼   ► and that's not what this is about?

01:39:34 ◼   ► Apple hasn't told us, but the bottom line is,

01:39:36 ◼   ► there is a new display driver,

01:39:37 ◼   ► so if you want to, again, have that glimmer of hope

01:39:41 ◼   ► that maybe the M4 has better external display to support

01:39:44 ◼   ► than the M3, M2, and M1,

01:39:46 ◼   ► now's the time to nurture that hope

01:39:48 ◼   ► until we get an M4-based laptop

01:39:50 ◼   ► and we find out what the real story is,

01:39:51 ◼   ► but right now, Apple is not telling us.

01:39:53 ◼   ► If someone inside Apple would like to tell us

01:39:55 ◼   ► why the updated display driver was needed,

01:39:57 ◼   ► is it for the tandem OLED?

01:39:58 ◼   ► Is it unrelated to the tandem OLED?

01:40:00 ◼   ► Can it drive more displays?

01:40:01 ◼   ► These are answers I want to know,

01:40:02 ◼   ► but right now we don't know, but there is hope,

01:40:05 ◼   ► so nurture that hope while you still can.

01:40:07 ◼   ► - Mike Runciman writes,

01:40:09 ◼   ► why do you think there's so much discussion

01:40:11 ◼   ► around the CPU power and costs for iPads,

01:40:13 ◼   ► but not around the iPhone?

01:40:15 ◼   ► The cost of an iPhone Pro can reach that of a MacBook Air

01:40:17 ◼   ► or MacBook Pro, but no one asks the question,

01:40:19 ◼   ► what are people doing with all that power in their phones?

01:40:21 ◼   ► Or people don't make statements like,

01:40:22 ◼   ► the power of the iPhone is really held back by iOS.

01:40:25 ◼   ► My main computer is an M2 iPad Pro,

01:40:27 ◼   ► and I use it for everything from basic email,

01:40:29 ◼   ► web browsing, and social media, to editing photos,

01:40:31 ◼   ► and even editing videos in Final Cut

01:40:32 ◼   ► and LumaFusion for a time.

01:40:34 ◼   ► I appreciate that Apple continues to upgrade these devices,

01:40:37 ◼   ► and I'd hate for Apple to think they're good enough,

01:40:40 ◼   ► and let the iPad line languish.

01:40:42 ◼   ► This is an interesting question,

01:40:44 ◼   ► and on the surface I want to dismiss it out of hand,

01:40:46 ◼   ► but Mike's not wrong, so what gives?

01:40:49 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, as we said before,

01:40:52 ◼   ► I don't think anyone is arguing

01:40:53 ◼   ► that the hardware is good enough

01:40:55 ◼   ► they shouldn't keep improving it.

01:40:56 ◼   ► We love the hardware, we want them to keep improving it.

01:40:58 ◼   ► This is what we expect, is the model.

01:41:00 ◼   ► The model for hardware products,

01:41:01 ◼   ► every year, make them better, right?

01:41:03 ◼   ► So no one is arguing for that.

01:41:05 ◼   ► The question about why are we making these statements

01:41:08 ◼   ► about the iPad and not the phone,

01:41:11 ◼   ► we discussed earlier that soon the phones will come

01:41:13 ◼   ► with the same base RAM as all the low-end Macs or whatever.

01:41:16 ◼   ► The answer is actually pretty simple.

01:41:19 ◼   ► It's because it's small and fits in your pocket.

01:41:21 ◼   ► Like, that sounds dumb, right?

01:41:23 ◼   ► Because like, oh, what does the screen size matter?

01:41:24 ◼   ► But it really, really does.

01:41:26 ◼   ► Like, attaching a keyboard to your phone,

01:41:28 ◼   ► a hardware keyboard and a trackpad, not really practical.

01:41:31 ◼   ► Doing tons of things at once

01:41:33 ◼   ► and doing complicated stuff on your phone,

01:41:35 ◼   ► the screen is just a little bit too small

01:41:37 ◼   ► to do lots of complicated stuff.

01:41:39 ◼   ► Right now we're frustrated

01:41:40 ◼   ► 'cause we can't do complicated stuff on the iPad

01:41:42 ◼   ► and we think the power is there.

01:41:44 ◼   ► We think that because the power is there

01:41:48 ◼   ► and the screen is there and the input devices are there.

01:41:50 ◼   ► Like, it's basically a laptop

01:41:52 ◼   ► when you attach all that stuff to it, right?

01:41:54 ◼   ► And even when you don't, you have all that screen area.

01:41:56 ◼   ► And how is that different than the phone?

01:41:57 ◼   ► Even if the phone literally had an M4

01:41:58 ◼   ► with 16 gigs of RAM in it, it's still a phone.

01:42:01 ◼   ► It's too small.

01:42:02 ◼   ► We don't want it to have a keyboard.

01:42:03 ◼   ► We don't want to attach a full-size keyboard to it.

01:42:05 ◼   ► You can't do so much on the screen, right?

01:42:07 ◼   ► So that just goes to show,

01:42:08 ◼   ► it's not like there's just hardware burning a hole

01:42:10 ◼   ► in our mental pocket and we're like, oh, we've got an M4,

01:42:12 ◼   ► we've gotta be able to do this amazing stuff.

01:42:14 ◼   ► It's because the whole device

01:42:17 ◼   ► looks so much like this whole other device we have,

01:42:20 ◼   ► the MacBook Air, that we know we can do it there.

01:42:23 ◼   ► We wouldn't want to edit our Final Cut Pro project

01:42:25 ◼   ► on even the biggest iPhone with no keyboard attached, right?

01:42:28 ◼   ► Even if the phone worked with a pencil,

01:42:30 ◼   ► even if the phone had external hardware keyboard,

01:42:32 ◼   ► it's like, what are you doing?

01:42:33 ◼   ► That's not, the screen is too small.

01:42:35 ◼   ► It's a handheld device, right?

01:42:37 ◼   ► That's the answer, that's why.

01:42:38 ◼   ► And doesn't mean we don't want the phones

01:42:39 ◼   ► to keep getting more powerful.

01:42:40 ◼   ► We do, because they can do amazing stuff.

01:42:42 ◼   ► And with the AI stuff, the amount of RAM they need

01:42:43 ◼   ► is probably gonna only increase.

01:42:46 ◼   ► But it's literally the fact of the hardware.

01:42:49 ◼   ► If the phone did not have a screen on it

01:42:51 ◼   ► and we all wore little glasses

01:42:52 ◼   ► and our phone projected an image onto it or whatever,

01:42:55 ◼   ► then we'd be asking the same questions about the phone,

01:42:56 ◼   ► maybe, because a lot of those limitations

01:42:58 ◼   ► would be taken away.

01:43:00 ◼   ► So that's the reason, like the physical form factor.

01:43:02 ◼   ► We are creatures with sense organs and hands and arms

01:43:05 ◼   ► and the size of things is important.

01:43:09 ◼   ► How we hold them, how we use them,

01:43:11 ◼   ► how we do input with the keyboard,

01:43:12 ◼   ► like that is all not incidental.

01:43:15 ◼   ► You don't just look at it and say,

01:43:16 ◼   ► it's got this CPU with this much RAM

01:43:18 ◼   ► and this much pair, therefore should be able

01:43:19 ◼   ► to do this thing.

01:43:20 ◼   ► The input and output devices define the products.

01:43:23 ◼   ► And we ask about the iPad probe,

01:43:25 ◼   ► is the input and output devices are big enough

01:43:28 ◼   ► and powerful enough to do all the things that we want

01:43:30 ◼   ► and not true on the phone.

01:43:32 ◼   ► - I think there's also, there's a big mismatch,

01:43:36 ◼   ► as we've been discussing this episode,

01:43:37 ◼   ► between what iPad hardware is capable of,

01:43:40 ◼   ► just sheer spec-wise and speed and memory and bandwidth-wise,

01:43:45 ◼   ► what the hardware is capable of versus what the OS

01:43:51 ◼   ► will let you do with it.

01:43:52 ◼   ► There's a pretty big disconnect there.

01:43:54 ◼   ► It is actually very difficult to use the power

01:43:59 ◼   ► that the iPad has because of the inherent limitations

01:44:03 ◼   ► of what they will allow you to do

01:44:05 ◼   ► or just how people are choosing to use them.

01:44:07 ◼   ► Whereas on a phone, first of all,

01:44:09 ◼   ► phones have way fewer resources than iPads,

01:44:11 ◼   ► like way fewer CPU cores, way smaller processors,

01:44:14 ◼   ► way less GPU power, way less RAM.

01:44:17 ◼   ► So phones are a much smaller power envelope,

01:44:20 ◼   ► much smaller space envelope.

01:44:22 ◼   ► - Even if that wasn't true, though, by the way,

01:44:23 ◼   ► even if they had, like I said, a 16 gigs of RAM and an M4,

01:44:26 ◼   ► what they wouldn't have is a big battery.

01:44:29 ◼   ► If you put an M4, and that's the reason

01:44:32 ◼   ► they don't have an M4 and a 16 gig,

01:44:33 ◼   ► but if you put that in there,

01:44:34 ◼   ► they have the same number of CPU cores

01:44:35 ◼   ► and everything or whatever,

01:44:36 ◼   ► the size of the device dictates

01:44:39 ◼   ► that it cannot have as big a battery as the iPad

01:44:41 ◼   ► 'cause it's literally not as big.

01:44:43 ◼   ► And that also limits what you can do with it.

01:44:46 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:44:47 ◼   ► And so in our phones, they have the smaller processors,

01:44:51 ◼   ► fewer resources, but then what people

01:44:54 ◼   ► are actually doing with their phones

01:44:56 ◼   ► oftentimes is really using a lot of the phone's capacity.

01:45:00 ◼   ► Think about just the massive amount

01:45:03 ◼   ► of computation required just taking pictures.

01:45:06 ◼   ► When people take pictures with their phones,

01:45:07 ◼   ► the amount of processing the phone is doing,

01:45:10 ◼   ► both live viewing of the viewfinder

01:45:12 ◼   ► and then to actually take and process the photo,

01:45:14 ◼   ► it's a huge amount of computation.

01:45:16 ◼   ► And that gets ramped up every year

01:45:19 ◼   ► as the phone hardware goes up in capability.

01:45:22 ◼   ► So phones actually are being, I think,

01:45:26 ◼   ► more, the resources are being utilized

01:45:28 ◼   ► to a greater degree than the average iPad

01:45:31 ◼   ► in just the way people are actually using them.

01:45:33 ◼   ► - And on-device AI is just gonna crank that up.

01:45:36 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:45:37 ◼   ► And I think that's gonna be used a lot more

01:45:39 ◼   ► on phones than on iPads, frankly,

01:45:40 ◼   ► because people use their phones in different ways

01:45:43 ◼   ► and different contexts, and I think phones

01:45:44 ◼   ► are gonna have way more of that.

01:45:46 ◼   ► And even if we look already,

01:45:47 ◼   ► phones are already using a large amount

01:45:50 ◼   ► of the resources that they have.

01:45:52 ◼   ► Whereas iPads, as John was saying,

01:45:54 ◼   ► iPads are given laptop resources

01:45:57 ◼   ► and have laptop price tags.

01:45:59 ◼   ► So it can be very frustrating when you can't do

01:46:04 ◼   ► all the things you wanna do on a laptop on an iPad.

01:46:07 ◼   ► And it feels kind of wasteful to have,

01:46:09 ◼   ► if you have a recent iPad Pro and a recent MacBook Air,

01:46:15 ◼   ► they probably have the same processor,

01:46:18 ◼   ► or roughly the same processor, a similar processor.

01:46:22 ◼   ► They probably have similar amounts of RAM,

01:46:24 ◼   ► maybe similar storage, and so you're looking like,

01:46:26 ◼   ► all right, I have this aluminum slab

01:46:29 ◼   ► that can do these things, and I have this other

01:46:31 ◼   ► aluminum slab over here that is extremely similar

01:46:35 ◼   ► that can do a very different set of things.

01:46:37 ◼   ► They're made by the same company.

01:46:38 ◼   ► They run a lot of the same software.

01:46:40 ◼   ► Why can't they just both do the same things?

01:46:43 ◼   ► It's a more frustrating situation

01:46:48 ◼   ► when you have these two very similar products

01:46:51 ◼   ► that have limitations that seem, I wouldn't say arbitrary,

01:46:56 ◼   ► but that seem forced beyond their need.

01:47:00 ◼   ► The phone is actually, the hardware for the phone

01:47:03 ◼   ► is well suited to the task that people ask the phone to do,

01:47:07 ◼   ► and it's well suited to the phone's physical realities

01:47:09 ◼   ► and the price reality of a phone.

01:47:11 ◼   ► Whereas iPad versus MacBook, those statements don't apply.

01:47:15 ◼   ► Everything is less fitting for its purpose,

01:47:18 ◼   ► and the iPad is just dying for more ways to use

01:47:22 ◼   ► this amazing hardware, and the software

01:47:24 ◼   ► just won't let us use it.

01:47:26 ◼   ► - You mentioned the price stuff, though, by the way.

01:47:27 ◼   ► I think you can price the most expensive iPhone

01:47:29 ◼   ► up into MacBook Air territory, but that doesn't change

01:47:31 ◼   ► the physical reality of the device.

01:47:33 ◼   ► It's a small device with a small screen

01:47:34 ◼   ► and a small battery, and so it's excluded.

01:47:37 ◼   ► Whereas with the iPad Pro to MacBook Air comparison,

01:47:39 ◼   ► same size screen, similar size keyboard,

01:47:41 ◼   ► similar weight, similar dimensions,

01:47:43 ◼   ► in general the iPad tends to be more expensive

01:47:46 ◼   ► if you spec them out to be the same.

01:47:48 ◼   ► Some people find that frustrating,

01:47:49 ◼   ► but the iPad also turns into a tablet

01:47:51 ◼   ► and can use the Apple Pencil and has a better screen

01:47:56 ◼   ► and has a faster CPU.

01:47:57 ◼   ► You're paying for the flexibility,

01:47:59 ◼   ► that flexibility that you get,

01:48:01 ◼   ► you don't get that with the MacBook Air.

01:48:02 ◼   ► Again, these are decisions Apple's made

01:48:04 ◼   ► in their product lines.

01:48:04 ◼   ► You can imagine a touchscreen MacBook Air-sized device

01:48:07 ◼   ► that is essentially a current M4 iPad Pro

01:48:11 ◼   ► with everything fused together running macOS,

01:48:13 ◼   ► but that you could take the screen off,

01:48:14 ◼   ► Apple has patents on that.

01:48:15 ◼   ► Thus far they haven't done that,

01:48:16 ◼   ► made a convertible touchscreen Pencil-equipped Mac.

01:48:19 ◼   ► I think they 100% should do that.

01:48:21 ◼   ► They haven't done it yet.

01:48:22 ◼   ► But setting that aside, that's separate

01:48:24 ◼   ► from the issue of the iPad.

01:48:25 ◼   ► And if they did that, you could say,

01:48:27 ◼   ► well, this takes the pressure off the iPad.

01:48:28 ◼   ► Now that we've got touchscreen Pencil-capable

01:48:30 ◼   ► cellular Mac laptops, we don't have to worry about the iPad.

01:48:33 ◼   ► It can just stay the same as it always has.

01:48:35 ◼   ► I still think that's not true,

01:48:36 ◼   ► because I think there is room for iPad OS capabilities

01:48:40 ◼   ► to grow without it becoming the disaster

01:48:45 ◼   ► that is the general purpose PC or Mac.

01:48:47 ◼   ► And I say that humorously.

01:48:48 ◼   ► I don't think it's a disaster,

01:48:49 ◼   ► but it's more difficult.

01:48:51 ◼   ► And Apple, because Apple has been walking that path,

01:48:54 ◼   ► and so far they haven't screwed up the iPad,

01:48:57 ◼   ► but they're being so cautious about it.

01:48:59 ◼   ► And they haven't made a touchscreen Mac

01:49:00 ◼   ► with Pencil support and cellular.

01:49:02 ◼   ► So we're currently in the age of dissatisfaction

01:49:05 ◼   ► about iPad software capabilities within the nerd community.

01:49:09 ◼   ► - Thank you to our sponsor this week, DeleteMe.

01:49:12 ◼   ► Thank you to our members who support us directly.

01:49:14 ◼   ► You can join us at ATP.fm/join.

01:49:17 ◼   ► One of the big benefits of membership

01:49:18 ◼   ► is you get to hear ATP Overtime,

01:49:20 ◼   ► a special bonus topic that we do after each episode now.

01:49:23 ◼   ► This week's bonus topic in ATP Overtime

01:49:26 ◼   ► is Meta wants to be the Microsoft of headsets.

01:49:30 ◼   ► They are kind of trying to get Meta Horizon OS

01:49:34 ◼   ► to run on other hardware.

01:49:35 ◼   ► So we're gonna talk about that in ATP Overtime

01:49:38 ◼   ► right now after the show.

01:49:39 ◼   ► So thank you so much to our members.

01:49:41 ◼   ► You can join if you wanna hear it, ATP.fm/join.

01:49:44 ◼   ► And we'll talk to you next week.

01:49:47 ◼   ► ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:49:52 ◼   ► ♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪

01:49:55 ◼   ► ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:49:56 ◼   ► ♪ Accidental ♪

01:49:57 ◼   ► ♪ Oh it was accidental ♪

01:49:59 ◼   ► ♪ Accidental ♪

01:50:00 ◼   ► ♪ John didn't do any research ♪

01:50:02 ◼   ► ♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪

01:50:05 ◼   ► ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:50:07 ◼   ► ♪ Accidental ♪

01:50:08 ◼   ► ♪ Oh it was accidental ♪

01:50:09 ◼   ► ♪ Accidental ♪

01:50:11 ◼   ► ♪ And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm ♪

01:50:16 ◼   ► ♪ And if you're into Mastodon ♪

01:50:19 ◼   ► ♪ You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S ♪

01:50:24 ◼   ► ♪ So that's Casey List M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M ♪

01:50:29 ◼   ► ♪ N-T Marco Arment S-I-R-A-C ♪

01:50:34 ◼   ► ♪ S-I-C-R-A-C-U-S-A ♪

01:50:37 ◼   ► ♪ It's accidental ♪

01:50:38 ◼   ► ♪ Accidental ♪

01:50:40 ◼   ► ♪ They didn't mean to ♪

01:50:42 ◼   ► ♪ Accidental ♪

01:50:44 ◼   ► ♪ Accidental ♪

01:50:45 ◼   ► ♪ Tech podcast ♪

01:50:47 ◼   ► ♪ So long ♪

01:50:49 ◼   ► - So I'm sure all of us are probably the IT support

01:50:54 ◼   ► for our immediate family slash extended family.

01:50:57 ◼   ► - Entire town.

01:50:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:51:00 ◼   ► I feel for my immediate families for sure.

01:51:05 ◼   ► And also for my children,

01:51:06 ◼   ► despite what my parents said when we got all these computers

01:51:09 ◼   ► in the house and they immediately became mine

01:51:10 ◼   ► and I'm the only person who understood how to use them

01:51:12 ◼   ► and I'm the only person who could fix them,

01:51:13 ◼   ► I decided what we got blah, blah, blah.

01:51:14 ◼   ► And I said, "Someday you'll have a kid

01:51:17 ◼   ► "and they'll do the same thing that you're doing to me

01:51:19 ◼   ► "and running rings around you and making you feel dumb

01:51:21 ◼   ► "for not knowing how to use your technology devices."

01:51:23 ◼   ► And let me tell you, that did not happen.

01:51:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:51:27 ◼   ► My kids do not care about computers

01:51:29 ◼   ► because they hate them for granted, right?

01:51:30 ◼   ► They don't know how to do anything,

01:51:32 ◼   ► they don't know how to troubleshoot technology

01:51:33 ◼   ► and my son's a CS major, he's a very good student.

01:51:35 ◼   ► - I was gonna say, I thought he was a CS major.

01:51:38 ◼   ► - He is, he just doesn't care about computers.

01:51:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, those are different things.

01:51:42 ◼   ► You can be a CS major and not care about the workings

01:51:45 ◼   ► and dealings of computers.

01:51:47 ◼   ► - And certainly not the debugging of problems.

01:51:48 ◼   ► So anyway, this is an older story.

01:51:51 ◼   ► He's back home now for the summer but he was off at school

01:51:54 ◼   ► and he's got a M2 MacBook Air that we got him for college.

01:51:57 ◼   ► He's had it since it was released.

01:51:59 ◼   ► Did get that one in educational discount

01:52:01 ◼   ► and I set it up for him when he was at home

01:52:03 ◼   ► and he's been using it at school

01:52:04 ◼   ► and every once in a while he has some sort of problem

01:52:07 ◼   ► where he needs my help setting it up

01:52:08 ◼   ► and I remote desktop into it and help him out or whatever.

01:52:10 ◼   ► - All right, slow down.

01:52:12 ◼   ► How do you orchestrate remote desktop in--

01:52:14 ◼   ► - Apple messages has a little feature cleverly hidden

01:52:17 ◼   ► in their terrible interface somewhere,

01:52:19 ◼   ► like you hit the little eye in a circle

01:52:20 ◼   ► next to a person's name and there's a little menu

01:52:22 ◼   ► comes up or something that says ask to share screen.

01:52:25 ◼   ► Yeah, that'll do it.

01:52:27 ◼   ► - And that works consistently?

01:52:28 ◼   ► 'Cause I haven't tried this in a long time.

01:52:30 ◼   ► - Oh no, it doesn't work consistently.

01:52:33 ◼   ► But it does work.

01:52:34 ◼   ► I usually blame the inconsistency

01:52:36 ◼   ► on his weird school network or something.

01:52:38 ◼   ► Like it disconnects, the audio disconnects,

01:52:39 ◼   ► we keep getting disconnected but eventually it works.

01:52:43 ◼   ► And it's easy for him to do

01:52:43 ◼   ► because he has messages and it's easy.

01:52:45 ◼   ► Anyway, towards the end of this year,

01:52:47 ◼   ► right around the time he was doing finals

01:52:50 ◼   ► and final projects, he's like, my computer's not working,

01:52:53 ◼   ► like the Finder is crashing,

01:52:54 ◼   ► like just every time I try to do anything,

01:52:56 ◼   ► the Finder just freezes and I get a beach ball or whatever

01:52:58 ◼   ► and I was like, all right.

01:53:00 ◼   ► So I'm gonna take a look at this.

01:53:01 ◼   ► And what my diagnosis fairly quickly was that I had,

01:53:06 ◼   ► I mean, 'cause I had made a mistake,

01:53:08 ◼   ► I had failed him by not setting him up for success.

01:53:11 ◼   ► When I originally set up his,

01:53:12 ◼   ► I think it wasn't even this laptop,

01:53:14 ◼   ► it was the one before this laptop.

01:53:15 ◼   ► When I originally set up his like homework laptop

01:53:17 ◼   ► when he was in high school,

01:53:18 ◼   ► 'cause he had a laptop in high school as well,

01:53:19 ◼   ► I think it was M1 Macbook Air back then.

01:53:21 ◼   ► I set him and my daughter up with a thing

01:53:24 ◼   ► that I do not use myself and that I don't,

01:53:26 ◼   ► and my wife doesn't use, which is iCloud Drive documents

01:53:31 ◼   ► in desktop sync.

01:53:34 ◼   ► - Oh no.

01:53:35 ◼   ► - Oh no.

01:53:36 ◼   ► Because my kids had, they had like nothing.

01:53:39 ◼   ► All they ever used was Chrome,

01:53:41 ◼   ► but they did occasionally throw things on their desktop

01:53:43 ◼   ► and they didn't want their things to be backed up

01:53:45 ◼   ► and they didn't wanna be in the time machine vortex

01:53:46 ◼   ► or whatever and they're like, we don't have any files,

01:53:48 ◼   ► so they're like, what are all those things on your desktop?

01:53:49 ◼   ► And like, but yeah, but those don't count.

01:53:51 ◼   ► Like, well, you'd be sad if they went up.

01:53:52 ◼   ► Anyway, I set them up with this

01:53:54 ◼   ► and this turned out to be a good thing

01:53:55 ◼   ► because many times it saved their butt

01:53:57 ◼   ► because they don't pay attention to stuff or whatever

01:53:59 ◼   ► and they had such light needs.

01:54:00 ◼   ► There was like, they chuck, they put things on their desktop

01:54:02 ◼   ► 'cause they don't know anything else that exists.

01:54:04 ◼   ► Occasionally they'd put something in a documents folder,

01:54:05 ◼   ► it all synced up, iCloud, it was piddling them out of data

01:54:08 ◼   ► and they just didn't back up their Macs

01:54:10 ◼   ► 'cause they were either using Chrome or,

01:54:12 ◼   ► not using Chrome, whatever, using a web browser,

01:54:14 ◼   ► Safari or Chrome to do their school stuff,

01:54:16 ◼   ► which is all through the web through Google thing,

01:54:18 ◼   ► that's why I'm thinking of Chrome, right?

01:54:20 ◼   ► Or they were doing occasional random stuff locally

01:54:23 ◼   ► and putting files in their desktop.

01:54:24 ◼   ► Well, my son went off to college in this.

01:54:26 ◼   ► Freshman year went okay, sophomore year,

01:54:28 ◼   ► he was getting into more heavy CS courses

01:54:30 ◼   ► and eventually we got to the place that,

01:54:32 ◼   ► the reason that I don't use it,

01:54:33 ◼   ► the reason I recommend people do not use it,

01:54:35 ◼   ► the reason I don't let my wife use it

01:54:37 ◼   ► is because I have no faith

01:54:39 ◼   ► in iCloud Drive's ability to sync files.

01:54:41 ◼   ► It's the reason I still use Dropbox for all its weirdness.

01:54:44 ◼   ► I know how it works, it's understandable

01:54:46 ◼   ► and for the most part, it does what it's supposed to.

01:54:48 ◼   ► iCloud Drive, none of those things is true about it.

01:54:50 ◼   ► It's just, it's so bad, I hate it so much

01:54:53 ◼   ► and it was fine for light needs,

01:54:54 ◼   ► but eventually what happened,

01:54:56 ◼   ► when I got on this computer to diagnose it,

01:54:59 ◼   ► top process was file provider D using 100% of the CPU,

01:55:03 ◼   ► finder locking up, nothing works,

01:55:05 ◼   ► just totally hosed and frozen and it was like,

01:55:09 ◼   ► how am I gonna get them out of this remotely?

01:55:11 ◼   ► So I did some heroics remotely

01:55:14 ◼   ► to try to get it into a state

01:55:15 ◼   ► where he could deal with stuff again.

01:55:17 ◼   ► Basically I had to turn off iCloud Drive,

01:55:19 ◼   ► which you're like, oh, at least you can just turn it off

01:55:21 ◼   ► and it cures everything.

01:55:22 ◼   ► Turning it off also doesn't work, of course,

01:55:25 ◼   ► because once it's totally hosed, you can't turn it off

01:55:28 ◼   ► and it's like, oh, updating things and it'll hang for,

01:55:30 ◼   ► and it's like, he's got stuff to do, he's got finals,

01:55:33 ◼   ► he's like, I don't, and I'm remote and like,

01:55:35 ◼   ► I eventually essentially successfully turned it off

01:55:38 ◼   ► after like manually copying the files

01:55:40 ◼   ► because he has a local account, my wife's Mac Studio,

01:55:45 ◼   ► where the files are also synced and it wasn't hosed

01:55:47 ◼   ► and so I copied them up into his Google Drive,

01:55:49 ◼   ► I zipped them and copied to his Google Drive.

01:55:51 ◼   ► - That's clever. - Then managed

01:55:52 ◼   ► to turn off iCloud Drive by booting into single user mode

01:55:55 ◼   ► in a bunch of, like, I did some heroics

01:55:57 ◼   ► and I got him out of the situation

01:55:59 ◼   ► and I said, look, your computer is essentially hosed,

01:56:01 ◼   ► but I've saved all your stuff,

01:56:03 ◼   ► put these zip files back on your desktop,

01:56:05 ◼   ► you can unzip them, iCloud Drive is disabled,

01:56:07 ◼   ► just get through these next two weeks

01:56:09 ◼   ► when you come home, I'll wipe your computer,

01:56:10 ◼   ► which is what I did, he came home, I wiped the computer,

01:56:12 ◼   ► I started all over or whatever

01:56:14 ◼   ► and I got into a sane situation.

01:56:15 ◼   ► Still in the end, I talked to him about this,

01:56:18 ◼   ► I said, do you still want, you know,

01:56:20 ◼   ► iCloud Drive syncing documents on desktop or whatever?

01:56:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, totally, why not, Dad?

01:56:24 ◼   ► - I mean, so here's the thing,

01:56:25 ◼   ► this is the kicker in the story

01:56:27 ◼   ► and maybe only Casey will know the answer to this,

01:56:29 ◼   ► but this is not 100% sure, but this is my leading theory.

01:56:34 ◼   ► What caused this to happen?

01:56:36 ◼   ► Well, why did it work freshman year,

01:56:38 ◼   ► but eventually it fell over sophomore year?

01:56:40 ◼   ► What was, you know, what was the straw

01:56:42 ◼   ► that broke this camel's back?

01:56:44 ◼   ► Why did we exceed the meager limits of iCloud Drive?

01:56:48 ◼   ► - I would assume too much storage was used,

01:56:50 ◼   ► like iCloud has eclipsed its two terabyte plan or whatever.

01:56:55 ◼   ► - That's a good guess, we were creeping up on it

01:56:57 ◼   ► and I did buy more storage,

01:56:58 ◼   ► this is part of my trying heroic debugging.

01:57:00 ◼   ► We were at like 90% and so I did buy

01:57:02 ◼   ► another like two terabytes or whatever,

01:57:03 ◼   ► but 90%, I don't think that was the problem,

01:57:05 ◼   ► like there's 10% of two terabytes

01:57:07 ◼   ► is still enough room to grow.

01:57:09 ◼   ► - I'm guessing there was like one problematic file

01:57:12 ◼   ► that like would not sync

01:57:13 ◼   ► and just silently broke the whole thing.

01:57:16 ◼   ► - You know, I would do LSOF to try to see

01:57:18 ◼   ► which if it's hitting a problematic file,

01:57:20 ◼   ► all the usual debugging stuff to try to figure out

01:57:22 ◼   ► if it's stuck on something or whatever.

01:57:25 ◼   ► No, no, it's something, it's two words,

01:57:27 ◼   ► but it's actually it's two words joined by an underscore.

01:57:30 ◼   ► - DS store?

01:57:33 ◼   ► - No.

01:57:34 ◼   ► - I'm not sure why you're looking at me,

01:57:35 ◼   ► I'm not mad, but I'm not clear

01:57:37 ◼   ► why you're looking at me to answer this,

01:57:38 ◼   ► which means it's something obvious

01:57:39 ◼   ► that I'm not thinking of.

01:57:40 ◼   ► - And again, I don't 100% know this is for the cause,

01:57:44 ◼   ► but I'm gonna say 60, 70, 80%.

01:57:48 ◼   ► Node modules, does that name ring a bell?

01:57:50 ◼   ► - Oh, that's why.

01:57:52 ◼   ► - He was doing a lot of courses this year

01:57:55 ◼   ► that were done in Node, and anybody who's ever used Node,

01:57:59 ◼   ► especially if you have multiple products all over the place,

01:58:02 ◼   ► if there's a Node modules directory,

01:58:04 ◼   ► the number of files that are in that directory

01:58:06 ◼   ► is astronomical.

01:58:07 ◼   ► And if those files are, because you're a kid and don't know,

01:58:12 ◼   ► on the desktop, file provider D was like,

01:58:17 ◼   ► I can't even, I give up, this is too many files,

01:58:22 ◼   ► changing too often, too fast.

01:58:25 ◼   ► And of course the project they were doing had some,

01:58:28 ◼   ► they were doing using Yarn instead of NPM

01:58:29 ◼   ► for God knows what reason,

01:58:30 ◼   ► and they had a Yarn command set up for Yarn fix,

01:58:34 ◼   ► Yarn fix dev, which was reset the world and delete everything

01:58:36 ◼   ► because otherwise the thing wouldn't work

01:58:37 ◼   ► after you change certain things.

01:58:39 ◼   ► And I'm like, this is not the way to run a software project.

01:58:41 ◼   ► If you don't understand what this is doing,

01:58:42 ◼   ► this should not be necessary.

01:58:43 ◼   ► But the bottom line is they were nuking and paving

01:58:46 ◼   ► constantly during their dev process

01:58:48 ◼   ► and refilling the Node modules directory

01:58:50 ◼   ► and doing all sorts of stuff.

01:58:52 ◼   ► File provider D is not up to a test.

01:58:54 ◼   ► So the only reason I'm relaying the story

01:58:55 ◼   ► is just to tell you, hey, if you hear me saying

01:58:58 ◼   ► that I don't have faith in iCloud drive

01:59:00 ◼   ► and that you shouldn't use it, this is exactly why.

01:59:02 ◼   ► It's fine if you have a small number of files,

01:59:04 ◼   ► but if you know what the Node modules directory is,

01:59:06 ◼   ► never use iCloud drive, never.

01:59:08 ◼   ► It can't handle that volume of files.

01:59:11 ◼   ► It can't handle that many changes.

01:59:12 ◼   ► It's bad, don't use it.

01:59:14 ◼   ► Use Dropbox, use Maestro, use literally anything else.

01:59:18 ◼   ► Because when iCloud drive goes bad,

01:59:20 ◼   ► like I said, you can't even turn it off easily.

01:59:23 ◼   ► - That hurts.

01:59:25 ◼   ► How were you doing, were you talking him through

01:59:29 ◼   ► the reboot into safe mode dance and all that jazz?

01:59:32 ◼   ► Or were you actually able to do that somehow?

01:59:34 ◼   ► - I was like, hold down the power button,

01:59:36 ◼   ► just hold it down.

01:59:36 ◼   ► And he's like, I am, but it just reboot.

01:59:39 ◼   ► It was in some weird boot loop thing

01:59:41 ◼   ► where it wouldn't even let him get to the boot options menu.

01:59:44 ◼   ► It was just, this is again, hard to diagnose remotely.

01:59:47 ◼   ► I had him FaceTiming, holding his phone up

01:59:49 ◼   ► to look at the screen.

01:59:50 ◼   ► - Oh, that's never good.

01:59:51 ◼   ► - It was really badly hosed.

01:59:53 ◼   ► And in fact, when all was said and done

01:59:55 ◼   ► and he brought it home, there were also,

01:59:56 ◼   ► as far as I can tell, essentially unrepairable

01:59:58 ◼   ► file system errors in APFS.

02:00:00 ◼   ► (bell dings)

02:00:01 ◼   ► - Oh gosh.

02:00:02 ◼   ► How did it even possible?

02:00:03 ◼   ► - I just nuked the whole thing.

02:00:05 ◼   ► Just, FSCK would find the errors

02:00:07 ◼   ► and say it was like repairing them,

02:00:08 ◼   ► but then you'd find the same errors in the second run.

02:00:10 ◼   ► I don't think they were the cause of the problem

02:00:12 ◼   ► because once I had turned off iCloud drive,

02:00:13 ◼   ► everything was fine.

02:00:14 ◼   ► Like there was no more problems, right?

02:00:16 ◼   ► But yeah, I just nuked the whole thing.

02:00:17 ◼   ► Just wiped everything on it, started over from scratch.

02:00:20 ◼   ► And he didn't lose any data because I had all of his files

02:00:24 ◼   ► on the Mac studio with iCloud drive synced

02:00:26 ◼   ► and I just copied them.

02:00:28 ◼   ► I made him a local folder in his home directory.

02:00:30 ◼   ► I said, anything that has the word node in it,

02:00:33 ◼   ► put in a local folder that will not sync.

02:00:35 ◼   ► So his desktop is still syncing.

02:00:37 ◼   ► And I told him, don't put stuff on the desktop.

02:00:40 ◼   ► But you can put like a PDF or Word document, whatever,

02:00:42 ◼   ► but any coding you're doing, don't put it there.

02:00:45 ◼   ► Put everything local.

02:00:45 ◼   ► So we'll see how this goes next year.

02:00:47 ◼   ► But yeah, iCloud drive, still not good.

02:00:50 ◼   ► In summary.

02:00:52 ◼   ► - Who woulda thunk it.

02:00:54 ◼   ► Who woulda thunk it.

02:00:55 ◼   ► - Wow. - Oy, that's a journey.

02:00:58 ◼   ► You know, I don't know if we need to include this

02:01:01 ◼   ► in the release version of the show,

02:01:02 ◼   ► but something I have wondered for myself

02:01:06 ◼   ► is would it make sense to have my dad install Tailstock

02:01:12 ◼   ► on his computer, either have me do it with my own credentials

02:01:17 ◼   ► and have his machine basically be a node in my tail net,

02:01:20 ◼   ► or alternatively have him install his own node

02:01:25 ◼   ► in his own tail net and then share that node with me

02:01:30 ◼   ► so that if I need to remote desktop into his computer,

02:01:33 ◼   ► it is way easier.

02:01:34 ◼   ► Now that's not necessary in my case

02:01:35 ◼   ► because I have my backup hosting Synology in his basement.

02:01:40 ◼   ► And I have set that up such that I can crawl

02:01:43 ◼   ► through Tailscale onto his network,

02:01:45 ◼   ► and I could log into his machine.

02:01:48 ◼   ► You know, and again, I would never do this

02:01:49 ◼   ► without permission, but I could log into his machine

02:01:52 ◼   ► basically at a moment's notice, and it would be fine.

02:01:54 ◼   ► But I wonder if it would make sense

02:01:56 ◼   ► if you were willing to do all this,

02:01:58 ◼   ► which it sounds like you probably aren't,

02:01:59 ◼   ► but if you were willing to do all this,

02:02:01 ◼   ► if it would make sense to have Alex and you

02:02:04 ◼   ► get on a tail net or something like that, such that--

02:02:06 ◼   ► - This is one more thing to debug.

02:02:08 ◼   ► No way.

02:02:09 ◼   ► Like that's the beauty of messages is that it's built in.

02:02:12 ◼   ► Right? - That's fair.

02:02:13 ◼   ► - I know if there's any problem with it,

02:02:15 ◼   ► it's like there is weird school network,

02:02:17 ◼   ► the weird school wifi, firewall rules they have.

02:02:19 ◼   ► The last thing I wanna debug is another layer

02:02:21 ◼   ► on top of that, which is, oh, Tailscale,

02:02:23 ◼   ► how is that interfering?

02:02:24 ◼   ► Like, yeah, that's why I recommend the messages thing.

02:02:27 ◼   ► It is like, it is the base level.

02:02:30 ◼   ► If you have two Macs and you need to help each other

02:02:31 ◼   ► with them, use the messages thing as your first option

02:02:34 ◼   ► because it eliminates all third-party software,

02:02:36 ◼   ► all third-party network and stuff,

02:02:37 ◼   ► it's all first-party and if that works ever,

02:02:40 ◼   ► even if it's intermittently, use that.

02:02:43 ◼   ► - I mean, I get what you're saying.

02:02:43 ◼   ► I have no real argument for it,

02:02:45 ◼   ► but just something to think about

02:02:46 ◼   ► because Tailscale is pretty reliable

02:02:48 ◼   ► and is very good at poking holes through firewalls.

02:02:52 ◼   ► Like that's kind of one of their things.

02:02:53 ◼   ► - I know, but like university networks are like,

02:02:57 ◼   ► it's like an adversarial situation.

02:02:59 ◼   ► University networks aggressively are attacking

02:03:01 ◼   ► what college students want to do with their computers.

02:03:04 ◼   ► Like my, take an example.

02:03:06 ◼   ► My son can't torrent his manga things from school

02:03:11 ◼   ► because they like, they stop all of that.

02:03:13 ◼   ► You're like, oh, Tailscale will get around it or whatever.

02:03:15 ◼   ► Wouldn't surprise me if the smart IT people at university

02:03:18 ◼   ► are also looking for and trying to detect

02:03:20 ◼   ► and shut down Tailscale stuff.

02:03:21 ◼   ► So it's a hostile environment over there.

02:03:23 ◼   ► (beeping)