Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 510,

00:00:13 ◼   ► for April 29th, 2024.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:18 ◼   ► SaneBox, and Vitally.

00:00:20 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:00:23 ◼   ► - Hi, Mike, how are you doing?

00:00:25 ◼   ► - I'm good, I've got a big show today.

00:00:26 ◼   ► There's a lot going on. - Big show.

00:00:27 ◼   ► - Got a lot going on. - Big show.

00:00:29 ◼   ► - There is a lot, there was a lot of movement that happened.

00:00:31 ◼   ► - A lot of news, I've got a little story,

00:00:34 ◼   ► I've got one of those stories.

00:00:35 ◼   ► - We're both a little frazzled.

00:00:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, a little frazzled. - You did some travel,

00:00:38 ◼   ► I did some travel. - Yep, big travel buddies.

00:00:41 ◼   ► - I had a big weekend.

00:00:42 ◼   ► We did not travel together,

00:00:44 ◼   ► but we are big travel buddies in another sense.

00:00:47 ◼   ► But you visited with a Relay FM host

00:00:50 ◼   ► and I visited with Relay FM hosts, how about that?

00:00:52 ◼   ► - Incredible. - But different trips.

00:00:54 ◼   ► - Look at us. - Different places.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Look at us, you can look at us

00:00:58 ◼   ► if you go to our YouTube channel

00:01:00 ◼   ► where this version of the show is posted as a video as well.

00:01:03 ◼   ► - You love to see it. - How about that?

00:01:04 ◼   ► That was a little organic marketing.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - That was really good, that was really good.

00:01:10 ◼   ► I have a snow-tall question for you,

00:01:11 ◼   ► comes from Dylan who wants to know,

00:01:13 ◼   ► do you read footnotes when you read a nonfiction ebook?

00:01:17 ◼   ► - I love this question because of course we know

00:01:19 ◼   ► that we are one of the world's foremost ebook podcasts.

00:01:26 ◼   ► And my answer to Dylan is, okay,

00:01:30 ◼   ► there's a method to reading footnotes

00:01:34 ◼   ► when you're reading a nonfiction book.

00:01:37 ◼   ► And the method is context.

00:01:39 ◼   ► The method is, is the little symbol or number

00:01:43 ◼   ► at the end of this statement that just happened

00:01:45 ◼   ► strongly implying that something is going on

00:01:50 ◼   ► in the footnote that you might wanna read about?

00:01:54 ◼   ► Or is it like obligatory?

00:01:56 ◼   ► And so my answer is, when it seems like the footnote

00:02:01 ◼   ► is going to expand on a thing in a way I'm interested in,

00:02:06 ◼   ► I will tap to bring up the footnote.

00:02:08 ◼   ► I'll also say my habits with footnotes in eBooks

00:02:11 ◼   ► were formed in an earlier age.

00:02:14 ◼   ► There was a time when to read a footnote,

00:02:17 ◼   ► you would tap on the footnote

00:02:18 ◼   ► and it would take you to the end of the book

00:02:20 ◼   ► where the footnote was and you couldn't get back

00:02:24 ◼   ► automatically and even worse in the earliest days

00:02:27 ◼   ► of the Kindle, from then on, it would think

00:02:29 ◼   ► that you had read to the end of the book

00:02:31 ◼   ► 'cause it measured your furthest page read.

00:02:36 ◼   ► It was so bad.

00:02:37 ◼   ► - Congratulations, you finished the book.

00:02:39 ◼   ► - You finished the book, yay.

00:02:41 ◼   ► So I stopped most footnotes.

00:02:45 ◼   ► However, software has advanced.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Now when you tap on a footnote,

00:02:49 ◼   ► it brings it up in a floating thing.

00:02:50 ◼   ► You don't even leave the page, you can dismiss it.

00:02:53 ◼   ► It doesn't mess up your anything about your,

00:02:55 ◼   ► where you're reading and all that, it's fine.

00:02:57 ◼   ► However, I will say, I still only really do it

00:02:59 ◼   ► if I think, oh boy, there's gonna be something good here.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Part of the context, by the way,

00:03:03 ◼   ► is that you've had positive interactions with that

00:03:05 ◼   ► in the past.

00:03:06 ◼   ► If I read a book and like a couple of times I tap

00:03:09 ◼   ► and it's just a citation to a scholarly journal or something,

00:03:12 ◼   ► it's like fool me once, shame on me,

00:03:16 ◼   ► fool me twice, shame on you,

00:03:17 ◼   ► I will stop tapping on footnotes.

00:03:18 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, in this book, the footnotes are boring.

00:03:23 ◼   ► But if you got good footnotes, if I'm like, oh, this book,

00:03:26 ◼   ► every time I see it like 22, I'm like, oh,

00:03:30 ◼   ► what wacky side story will be under footnote 22?

00:03:33 ◼   ► Then you got me, I will tap on those.

00:03:35 ◼   ► Unless it seems, sometimes I'll see them

00:03:37 ◼   ► and I'll be like, well, I'm not that interested,

00:03:39 ◼   ► I don't need to tap on the footnote.

00:03:40 ◼   ► But mostly I will be into it.

00:03:42 ◼   ► So it depends on what the book is

00:03:43 ◼   ► and how the footnotes are used.

00:03:46 ◼   ► And that's my answer.

00:03:47 ◼   ► So it's not a yes or no.

00:03:48 ◼   ► It's like, if they're good, yes.

00:03:50 ◼   ► If they're just citing sources

00:03:52 ◼   ► and so that you prove that they're not plagiarists,

00:03:56 ◼   ► whatever, boring, then I won't.

00:03:59 ◼   ► I do have a little side note about footnotes though.

00:04:01 ◼   ► The way footnotes work, and this is a sort of a,

00:04:03 ◼   ► harkening back to those primitive days early on in eBooks

00:04:10 ◼   ► where as I described, tapping a footnote was a whole journey.

00:04:14 ◼   ► The one thing that they don't seem

00:04:17 ◼   ► to have the capability to do is mark the footnotes

00:04:22 ◼   ► and the end material as outside the range

00:04:27 ◼   ► of the length of the book.

00:04:29 ◼   ► And I say this because I was reading a book the other week.

00:04:33 ◼   ► It was a book about, it was called "Fifth Son."

00:04:36 ◼   ► It's about the Aztecs, really good book.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Highly recommended if you care about that kind of stuff.

00:04:42 ◼   ► I'm really going into that middle-aged dad phase

00:04:45 ◼   ► where I'm listening to history podcasts

00:04:46 ◼   ► and reading books about history.

00:04:47 ◼   ► Just leaning in, leaning in, Mike.

00:04:50 ◼   ► Anyway, I read this book about the Aztecs

00:04:52 ◼   ► and there's a library loan.

00:04:54 ◼   ► - What was the name of that book?

00:04:55 ◼   ► I wanna make sure I get the right one for the show.

00:04:56 ◼   ► - "Fifth Son," S-U-N, "Fifth Son," by an American.

00:05:01 ◼   ► - "Fifth Son, a New History of the Aztecs," by-

00:05:07 ◼   ► - By Camilla Townsend. - Camilla Townsend.

00:05:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I'm reading it and the library's like,

00:05:13 ◼   ► you're gonna need to give that back to us in two days.

00:05:16 ◼   ► I'm like, oh my God, I'm only 40% through.

00:05:17 ◼   ► I'm never gonna get there.

00:05:19 ◼   ► I'm never gonna get there.

00:05:20 ◼   ► And I'm rushing through it.

00:05:21 ◼   ► And I get to like, I swear, Mike, like 55%.

00:05:24 ◼   ► And it's the end of the book.

00:05:26 ◼   ► And the rest of it, footnotes.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Like, oh, I think I'm at the end.

00:05:32 ◼   ► I got to the last chapter and it was like,

00:05:35 ◼   ► she's like kind of bringing it all together.

00:05:36 ◼   ► And I'm like, strange to be bringing it all together

00:05:38 ◼   ► in the late fifties.

00:05:39 ◼   ► What's going on here?

00:05:40 ◼   ► Tap, boop, done, footnotes.

00:05:43 ◼   ► I'm like, ah, well, I got to turn in the book.

00:05:45 ◼   ► I read the whole book.

00:05:46 ◼   ► It was great.

00:05:47 ◼   ► But like, here's my little feature request

00:05:49 ◼   ► to the kobos and kindles of the world is,

00:05:51 ◼   ► you probably have like a mark.

00:05:53 ◼   ► And when you're gauging length of the book,

00:05:55 ◼   ► don't include the footnotes.

00:05:56 ◼   ► Just don't, don't do it.

00:05:58 ◼   ► I beg you.

00:05:59 ◼   ► Anyway, that's my footnotes rant that I didn't know I had.

00:06:01 ◼   ► - That was a footnote for the footnote conversation.

00:06:04 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:06:05 ◼   ► You can go back.

00:06:06 ◼   ► And by the way, we've talked about eBooks in the past

00:06:09 ◼   ► in previous episodes, including last week.

00:06:11 ◼   ► That's also a footnote right there.

00:06:13 ◼   ► - Footnotes are in the show notes.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Thank you for sending in Dylan, that question.

00:06:18 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question of your own

00:06:19 ◼   ► to start off the show, go to upgradefeedback.com

00:06:23 ◼   ► and send in your Snell Talk question.

00:06:26 ◼   ► Jason, what season is it?

00:06:27 ◼   ► - Merch season.

00:06:30 ◼   ► - It's merch season.

00:06:31 ◼   ► Go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com

00:06:35 ◼   ► 'cause we have brand new merchandise.

00:06:37 ◼   ► Jason Snell, purveyor of merchandise.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Would you like to give the Upgradians an audio tour

00:06:42 ◼   ► of what they will find at upgradeyourwardrobe.com?

00:06:45 ◼   ► - And normally at upgradeyourwardrobe.com,

00:06:47 ◼   ► we've got a few on demand things.

00:06:48 ◼   ► There's a room around up shirt.

00:06:50 ◼   ► I think there's an upgrade logo shirt.

00:06:52 ◼   ► - There usually is an upgrade logo shirt,

00:06:53 ◼   ► but not right now to avoid confusion.

00:06:56 ◼   ► - Right now, because for a limited time,

00:06:59 ◼   ► 'cause it's Cotton Bureau and this is how it goes

00:07:01 ◼   ► for the next couple of weeks,

00:07:03 ◼   ► you will be able to get some new, with a footnote, merch.

00:07:09 ◼   ► We're doing the upgrade logo t-shirt

00:07:13 ◼   ► with a little twist this time,

00:07:14 ◼   ► which is that the arrow pointing upward

00:07:16 ◼   ► is gonna be left blank

00:07:18 ◼   ► and it will reflect the color of the shirt you're wearing.

00:07:21 ◼   ► So we're basically creating

00:07:23 ◼   ► a customize your upgrade logo experience.

00:07:27 ◼   ► It comes in two versions.

00:07:30 ◼   ► There is Upgrade Pro.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Those are monochrome colors

00:07:36 ◼   ► because they're very professional

00:07:38 ◼   ► and you should be a professional and use them

00:07:41 ◼   ► and they're not boring at all.

00:07:42 ◼   ► They're just professional.

00:07:43 ◼   ► - Lots of grays.

00:07:45 ◼   ► - Grays, blacks, whites, whatever.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Shades of gray, professional gray.

00:07:51 ◼   ► So that's Upgrade Pro.

00:07:52 ◼   ► And then if you're saying to yourself,

00:07:54 ◼   ► but I am not a professional upgrade t-shirt wearer, Jason,

00:07:57 ◼   ► I am merely a regular t-shirt wearer.

00:08:00 ◼   ► Well, good news, everybody.

00:08:01 ◼   ► You have gotten a visit from the Upgrade Colors R

00:08:04 ◼   ► and we've got non-pro colors.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Yes, colorful colors.

00:08:08 ◼   ► Various new colors so that you can have your upgrade logo

00:08:12 ◼   ► in any of the colors that are on offer

00:08:15 ◼   ► that are the color of a t-shirt.

00:08:16 ◼   ► - Mostly pastel colors, which is a new thing for us,

00:08:19 ◼   ► which I'm very excited about.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Some really lovely options in there.

00:08:22 ◼   ► Some very summery.

00:08:24 ◼   ► - As we're getting into the summer of fun,

00:08:25 ◼   ► it seems appropriate to have some nice summery colors

00:08:28 ◼   ► in there.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Speaking of the summer of fun, Mike,

00:08:31 ◼   ► well, another little segue,

00:08:32 ◼   ► we're all about the segues today.

00:08:34 ◼   ► Summer of fun, 2024 edition.

00:08:37 ◼   ► Now this is not a new shirt.

00:08:39 ◼   ► It is the 2022 beach shirt with the iPhone in the sand.

00:08:43 ◼   ► I love that design.

00:08:45 ◼   ► It came in a couple of different color options last time.

00:08:48 ◼   ► There was sort of like a,

00:08:49 ◼   ► it was like a green and aqua with a yellow print.

00:08:51 ◼   ► This time, the geniuses at the cotton bureau said,

00:08:56 ◼   ► here's an idea.

00:08:57 ◼   ► What if we did a gradient,

00:09:01 ◼   ► they call it split fountain.

00:09:04 ◼   ► A gradient. - I don't know

00:09:05 ◼   ► what it means.

00:09:06 ◼   ► And I also didn't know it was actually possible.

00:09:08 ◼   ► I'm very impressed by this.

00:09:09 ◼   ► - Two different shades are put in,

00:09:12 ◼   ► instead of having it cover the shirt for one shade,

00:09:15 ◼   ► they have two different inks

00:09:16 ◼   ► and then they end up in a gradient.

00:09:19 ◼   ► So they look really interesting.

00:09:22 ◼   ► They're available on dark and light colored shirts.

00:09:25 ◼   ► They look great on both.

00:09:26 ◼   ► So if you wanna relive the summer of fun with this,

00:09:31 ◼   ► I love this artwork.

00:09:33 ◼   ► It's like a surfboard in the sand,

00:09:35 ◼   ► but it's an iPhone and there's a Palm tree

00:09:37 ◼   ► and the upgrade logo is the setting sun

00:09:39 ◼   ► or rising sun depending. - And a pineapple.

00:09:41 ◼   ► - And there's a pineapple.

00:09:42 ◼   ► Why is there a pineapple? - Which I think

00:09:43 ◼   ► fell from the tree.

00:09:44 ◼   ► I don't know, man.

00:09:45 ◼   ► - Because pineapple.

00:09:47 ◼   ► Okay, because pineapple.

00:09:49 ◼   ► So that's available.

00:09:51 ◼   ► And then we've also brought back the classic dongle town,

00:09:55 ◼   ► our most popular dongle town shirt,

00:09:58 ◼   ► the dongle town USB-C.

00:10:01 ◼   ► - It's the portal authority.

00:10:03 ◼   ► - Port authority, exactly right.

00:10:05 ◼   ► In new colors that we haven't had before.

00:10:07 ◼   ► So there's some variety.

00:10:08 ◼   ► We wanted to, so we're bringing back some classics,

00:10:10 ◼   ► but with different colors, different options.

00:10:13 ◼   ► And that's our spring and summer,

00:10:15 ◼   ► at least in the Northern hemisphere vibe of merch.

00:10:19 ◼   ► So those will be available for the next couple of weeks

00:10:21 ◼   ► at upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:10:24 ◼   ► - You did, this is Jason's idea,

00:10:25 ◼   ► the kind of like customize your logo color one.

00:10:29 ◼   ► And I think it's inspired.

00:10:31 ◼   ► I love it so much.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Like some of the color options,

00:10:34 ◼   ► it looks so good to see the little logo peeking through.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I mean, you can go traditional and be red, right?

00:10:39 ◼   ► So it matches the show artwork,

00:10:41 ◼   ► but why not get pink or blue or purple or yellow

00:10:44 ◼   ► or many other colors that are available to you.

00:10:47 ◼   ► - Or light gray or a slightly darker gray

00:10:51 ◼   ► or an even darker, some would say midnight to space black.

00:10:55 ◼   ► - You can also just get gray.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - If you're wearing your shirt professionally,

00:10:58 ◼   ► you can do that.

00:10:59 ◼   ► - So we'd appreciate it if you wanna check these out

00:11:01 ◼   ► at upgradeyourwardrobe.com on sale

00:11:03 ◼   ► for just a couple of weeks.

00:11:05 ◼   ► - Limited time, order now.

00:11:08 ◼   ► I think, I don't wanna make some claims here, Mike.

00:11:10 ◼   ► I don't wanna make some claims here,

00:11:12 ◼   ► but I'm just gonna say there are other t-shirts

00:11:14 ◼   ► being sold on Cotton Bureau.

00:11:16 ◼   ► I think if you ordered them all together,

00:11:18 ◼   ► you would get them all together with one shipping cost,

00:11:21 ◼   ► but you'll have to wait

00:11:22 ◼   ► because of the way they phase their different things.

00:11:24 ◼   ► You'd have to wait for them all to go off sale

00:11:27 ◼   ► before that happens.

00:11:28 ◼   ► So you do you, but it's there as an option.

00:11:32 ◼   ► We have some follow up.

00:11:33 ◼   ► Scott wrote in to say,

00:11:35 ◼   ► "I found it strange that Mike was insistent

00:11:37 ◼   ► "about Delta adding in-app purchases

00:11:39 ◼   ► "or a premium subscription to the app to make more money

00:11:41 ◼   ► "when the developer already said they have a Patreon.

00:11:44 ◼   ► "If the developer says their model is already working,

00:11:46 ◼   ► "why keep suggesting a model that would be worse

00:11:48 ◼   ► "for lower income consumers,

00:11:49 ◼   ► "like keeping features behind a paywall?

00:11:51 ◼   ► "I get that a premium add-on or subscription

00:11:53 ◼   ► "would be optional, but the Patreon is already optional

00:11:56 ◼   ► "and it's working according to the developer."

00:11:58 ◼   ► Quite simple.

00:11:59 ◼   ► I love the app and I want them to make loads of money.

00:12:01 ◼   ► And I don't think it's possible,

00:12:04 ◼   ► actually I know it's impossible for the app store version

00:12:08 ◼   ► for the Patreon to provide any bonus features.

00:12:10 ◼   ► Like you can't do that.

00:12:12 ◼   ► Now the alt store version, they are doing that.

00:12:14 ◼   ► I would just like it because I think it's amazing

00:12:17 ◼   ► and I want the Delta folks like Riley and team

00:12:21 ◼   ► to make more money.

00:12:22 ◼   ► So like to add simple things in like theming and stuff

00:12:25 ◼   ► and put some behind a paywall and have people pay for it.

00:12:28 ◼   ► That's like the app also did not even call out

00:12:31 ◼   ► the Patreon, I think this is something they've added,

00:12:33 ◼   ► but I'm not actually sure this is something Apple

00:12:37 ◼   ► will allow, but I think they put it in anyway

00:12:38 ◼   ► and I think this goes here it goes.

00:12:41 ◼   ► But that's why, 'cause I just, I want the developer

00:12:44 ◼   ► to get as much support as possible.

00:12:45 ◼   ► I signed up for their Patreon for a year

00:12:49 ◼   ► because I'm using the app every single day

00:12:52 ◼   ► but I just want them to be very successful

00:12:53 ◼   ► because they deserve it.

00:12:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I would simplify it even further and say,

00:12:58 ◼   ► I think having a Patreon for it is perfect,

00:13:01 ◼   ► but you can't, you basically can't integrate Patreon

00:13:04 ◼   ► in that way in the app store outside of the EU, right?

00:13:06 ◼   ► You have to, and the app store period

00:13:08 ◼   ► and the EU they've got the alt store instead.

00:13:10 ◼   ► So doing with it at the, still at the top of the charts,

00:13:15 ◼   ► it would be nice if they find a way for people

00:13:17 ◼   ► to be able to give the developers money.

00:13:20 ◼   ► I don't think what we're saying they should charge for it.

00:13:22 ◼   ► They should charge $10 for Delta.

00:13:23 ◼   ► No, that's not it.

00:13:24 ◼   ► It's like you've got this huge user base.

00:13:26 ◼   ► Maybe you should add a tip jar or a subscription

00:13:29 ◼   ► where you get a little bit of a bonus content.

00:13:31 ◼   ► Maybe it's some bonus content that's related to things

00:13:33 ◼   ► that are unlocked by the Patreon,

00:13:35 ◼   ► but in the rest of the world, they can't do that.

00:13:37 ◼   ► So they have to make, like I would encourage them to do that.

00:13:41 ◼   ► Look, if Riley is happy to just like let it be free,

00:13:43 ◼   ► that's great, but like it would be nice

00:13:46 ◼   ► if people who liked it could give them more money.

00:13:48 ◼   ► I don't think we were saying,

00:13:49 ◼   ► take things away from people who can't afford it.

00:13:52 ◼   ► That's not what we're saying.

00:13:53 ◼   ► We're saying Riley deserves support for,

00:13:58 ◼   ► and the product's been so successful,

00:14:01 ◼   ► there should be ways to give, clearly give support.

00:14:04 ◼   ► And if the Patreon link works out, that's great,

00:14:06 ◼   ► but there are other ways that App Store apps

00:14:10 ◼   ► turn goodwill into some money for the creators,

00:14:13 ◼   ► and it would be great if they could do that.

00:14:16 ◼   ► - Speaking of emulation,

00:14:19 ◼   ► so you wrote an article on six colors,

00:14:21 ◼   ► a little bit about this, and I just,

00:14:24 ◼   ► there was a couple of things,

00:14:25 ◼   ► we've been talking about this stuff on and off,

00:14:26 ◼   ► and one of the things that I just wanted to read

00:14:30 ◼   ► is a quote from your article, which I really agree with,

00:14:32 ◼   ► where you say, "The right decision is for Apple

00:14:34 ◼   ► "to allow retro emulators of all kinds in the App Store

00:14:36 ◼   ► "and to allow game emulators to use

00:14:39 ◼   ► "just-in-time performance to boost performance.

00:14:41 ◼   ► "Otherwise, its limited expansion of the rules

00:14:44 ◼   ► "feels mostly for show and not indicative

00:14:46 ◼   ► "of a real change in approach to App Store rules."

00:14:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, the goal here,

00:14:52 ◼   ► I mean, the file name of this article

00:14:54 ◼   ► was Emulate All The Things.

00:14:56 ◼   ► I feel like this is a sign

00:14:58 ◼   ► that there is a lot of potential here.

00:15:02 ◼   ► And when we talk about Apple's rules,

00:15:05 ◼   ► one of the things that we talk about

00:15:07 ◼   ► is that Apple is actually in some ways hurting itself,

00:15:11 ◼   ► because the flip side of the App Store,

00:15:15 ◼   ► which I firmly believe, the App Store

00:15:17 ◼   ► and the richness of the App Store

00:15:18 ◼   ► is what helps make the Apple platforms rich, right?

00:15:22 ◼   ► It's not like the iPhone is great,

00:15:24 ◼   ► and then also there are apps.

00:15:25 ◼   ► It's like the iPhone has the rich app ecosystem.

00:15:28 ◼   ► That's one of the reasons the iPhone is great.

00:15:30 ◼   ► So the converse of that, the flip side of that is,

00:15:34 ◼   ► if there are things that aren't in the App Store

00:15:35 ◼   ► because Apple isn't allowing them,

00:15:37 ◼   ► Apple is making their platform worse.

00:15:39 ◼   ► I think the success of Delta shows

00:15:41 ◼   ► that emulation has real potential.

00:15:45 ◼   ► I mean, look, emulators have been happening

00:15:48 ◼   ► outside of iPhones for a long time now,

00:15:50 ◼   ► but on the iPhone, it's not been a possibility.

00:15:52 ◼   ► And my point with my piece on six colors

00:15:55 ◼   ► is that I don't want this Delta thing to be a fake,

00:16:00 ◼   ► like I said, mostly for show,

00:16:07 ◼   ► where it's sort of like, well, we'll approve emulators,

00:16:10 ◼   ► but only in the most limited fashion possible

00:16:12 ◼   ► in order to get everybody off of our backs.

00:16:15 ◼   ► I think they need to truly embrace this idea.

00:16:19 ◼   ► I think that they need to,

00:16:21 ◼   ► so what I say in the article is like the JIT argument,

00:16:25 ◼   ► to me is, I get that they're worried,

00:16:29 ◼   ► but like the whole no emulator thing was a security worry.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Remember, this is all based on a rule back in the day

00:16:36 ◼   ► where they're like, nothing can execute code.

00:16:39 ◼   ► No apps can execute code.

00:16:41 ◼   ► And that was like, you could put Python on it,

00:16:43 ◼   ► but you couldn't have any Python,

00:16:45 ◼   ► you had to type in your Python scripts

00:16:47 ◼   ► 'cause you're like, no, no, no, you can't.

00:16:49 ◼   ► It's code that could be interpreted or executed.

00:16:52 ◼   ► We can't allow it.

00:16:53 ◼   ► And they have gradually backed off on a lot of that.

00:16:55 ◼   ► But this saying that they're not gonna allow JITs,

00:16:58 ◼   ► so they're not gonna allow dolphin in the store,

00:17:02 ◼   ► is it strikes me as being one of those cases

00:17:05 ◼   ► where they are really hiding behind security

00:17:08 ◼   ► as a way to continue their control.

00:17:11 ◼   ► And so my article is basically saying, Apple, give it up.

00:17:14 ◼   ► Give it up for JITs, give it up for console.

00:17:19 ◼   ► Give it up for JITs and give it up for console.

00:17:22 ◼   ► Give it up for console.

00:17:24 ◼   ► I've said this before, but like,

00:17:26 ◼   ► my favorite games as a kid were on the Apple II.

00:17:29 ◼   ► Well, that's not a console, it's a computer.

00:17:33 ◼   ► And yeah, I could boot it up and do 10 print,

00:17:36 ◼   ► Jason is cool, 20 print, go to 10, but, or no, 20 go to 10.

00:17:40 ◼   ► If I do 20 print, go to 10, it's just gonna say,

00:17:42 ◼   ► Jason is cool, go to 10, which no one cares about.

00:17:45 ◼   ► I just, I just a bug in a basic program,

00:17:47 ◼   ► right on a podcast.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:17:49 ◼   ► - No, do execute this code on your podcast.

00:17:53 ◼   ► - Mostly what I want to do is play "Load Runner," okay?

00:17:57 ◼   ► I wanna play SSI computer baseball

00:18:00 ◼   ► on my iPhone and my iPad.

00:18:01 ◼   ► I should be able to do that, even though it's not a console.

00:18:05 ◼   ► And it's such an arbitrary rule, all of those things.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Retro, I know you've talked about this,

00:18:09 ◼   ► like what does retro mean?

00:18:10 ◼   ► What does gaming mean?

00:18:11 ◼   ► What does console mean?

00:18:13 ◼   ► And I think it's stupid.

00:18:14 ◼   ► I think these are more arbitrary words that give Apple

00:18:18 ◼   ► essentially authority to say yes or no to anything.

00:18:20 ◼   ► It's that classic argument about like the point of a law

00:18:23 ◼   ► that isn't enforced is that it can be arbitrarily enforced

00:18:27 ◼   ► whenever, right?

00:18:28 ◼   ► Like if you make everything illegal,

00:18:30 ◼   ► then you can stop anyone you don't like for any reason.

00:18:33 ◼   ► And it's a portal to ultimate power.

00:18:35 ◼   ► It's not law and order anymore.

00:18:36 ◼   ► It's just control.

00:18:38 ◼   ► And that's where we are with this rule.

00:18:40 ◼   ► So I'll go further.

00:18:42 ◼   ► And some of this is I've talked about before,

00:18:44 ◼   ► but like old Mac emulators,

00:18:47 ◼   ► I played a lot of games on the Mac too,

00:18:48 ◼   ► but like regardless of games,

00:18:50 ◼   ► like Mac emulators should be allowed.

00:18:54 ◼   ► And in fact, I would say Apple might wanna

00:18:56 ◼   ► start making an effort.

00:18:57 ◼   ► In fact, there was just a story over the weekend

00:18:59 ◼   ► about how what some version of,

00:19:02 ◼   ► is it DOS or Windows, some old PC operating system

00:19:06 ◼   ► that was just put out publicly.

00:19:09 ◼   ► Like I know it's a little bit of effort,

00:19:11 ◼   ► at least legally to do it,

00:19:13 ◼   ► but like I would really like to see some tiny portion

00:19:15 ◼   ► of Apple acknowledge that their old platforms

00:19:18 ◼   ► can be emulated and that have some value

00:19:20 ◼   ► and that Apple should embrace it

00:19:23 ◼   ► and not have it be on the black market essentially.

00:19:26 ◼   ► And this also goes for the thing that we've lamented

00:19:29 ◼   ► for a long time, which is iPhone games.

00:19:32 ◼   ► That and apps in general,

00:19:34 ◼   ► and I would go beyond games here too and say,

00:19:37 ◼   ► one of the great tragedies of the app store

00:19:39 ◼   ► and app development is that Apple's pace

00:19:42 ◼   ► of iOS development is so great

00:19:45 ◼   ► that apps break and Apple even has a policy

00:19:47 ◼   ► of like if you don't touch an app,

00:19:49 ◼   ► I have a sticker app that's literally just stickers

00:19:51 ◼   ► for the incomparable in the store.

00:19:53 ◼   ► And I got a note saying, if you don't change it,

00:19:55 ◼   ► we'll take it off the store.

00:19:57 ◼   ► And it's like, there's stickers, man.

00:19:59 ◼   ► The stickers are still the stickers.

00:20:01 ◼   ► And they're like, no, we're gonna just take it off the store

00:20:03 ◼   ► because it hasn't gotten any updates.

00:20:05 ◼   ► And so they're really aggressive about updating the OS

00:20:10 ◼   ► which is fine, but it breaks old apps

00:20:12 ◼   ► and then kicking old apps off the store.

00:20:14 ◼   ► And I know that they've done some things with Apple Arcade

00:20:16 ◼   ► where they've said, oh, well, we're gonna pay somebody

00:20:18 ◼   ► to make flight control work again and all that.

00:20:20 ◼   ► But I'll just put it out there.

00:20:23 ◼   ► Today's phones and iPads are so powerful

00:20:25 ◼   ► that one thing you could do is offer a virtual machine

00:20:30 ◼   ► four-year-old operating system versions

00:20:34 ◼   ► so that old apps can still run, right?

00:20:38 ◼   ► Like, I know that's a wild idea,

00:20:39 ◼   ► but what's stopping Apple from emulating iOS 5

00:20:44 ◼   ► and letting all those apps run or iOS 7?

00:20:47 ◼   ► Like, resource-wise, it's not that much.

00:20:51 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not saying it wouldn't be work to build it,

00:20:53 ◼   ► but the hardware is so powerful

00:20:56 ◼   ► that I would really like to see Apple embrace this

00:20:58 ◼   ► as a strategy to keep things compatible.

00:21:01 ◼   ► And I know that there's this relentless,

00:21:03 ◼   ► like, well, yeah, but you've gotta keep,

00:21:05 ◼   ► we want our developers to move with the times.

00:21:07 ◼   ► It's fine, have the window be 10 years ago.

00:21:09 ◼   ► I don't care, but I think there's opportunity there.

00:21:12 ◼   ► And I've already said

00:21:14 ◼   ► that you should also just open emulation.

00:21:16 ◼   ► Like, the iPad should be able to run

00:21:17 ◼   ► a version of Parallels or VMware

00:21:19 ◼   ► and should be able to run Windows for ARM,

00:21:22 ◼   ► and it should be able to run macOS

00:21:24 ◼   ► because it's an ARM processor.

00:21:25 ◼   ► It's an M1 or M2 or who knows, M3 or M4 processor

00:21:30 ◼   ► and that iPad, we'll get to it.

00:21:31 ◼   ► And so I just emulate all the things is what I come back to.

00:21:34 ◼   ► It's like emulation is an amazing thing

00:21:36 ◼   ► because computers have been around

00:21:38 ◼   ► and phones have been around for a while now.

00:21:39 ◼   ► And there's amazing software out there that people love.

00:21:42 ◼   ► And yeah, some of it is nostalgia,

00:21:43 ◼   ► but like it's amazing software out there

00:21:45 ◼   ► that is lost to history otherwise.

00:21:47 ◼   ► It shouldn't live in the darkness.

00:21:49 ◼   ► It shouldn't be limited to just on like a PC

00:21:53 ◼   ► or a Linux box or something like that

00:21:56 ◼   ► because other people should have the delight

00:21:57 ◼   ► that you, Mike Hurley, have

00:21:59 ◼   ► in being able to play Pokemon on your iPhone.

00:22:01 ◼   ► Like, that should happen for everyone.

00:22:06 ◼   ► And I think it would make the platform better

00:22:08 ◼   ► and I wish Apple would get off of this box

00:22:10 ◼   ► and just admit that emulation is good

00:22:14 ◼   ► and they should allow it,

00:22:16 ◼   ► not allow it with a big asterisk

00:22:18 ◼   ► that means that only when they feel like it.

00:22:20 ◼   ► - So moving on, Ross Young has corrected his report

00:22:25 ◼   ► on the larger iPad Air having a mini LED screen.

00:22:28 ◼   ► He is now saying that the device could be coming

00:22:31 ◼   ► later this year that features this screen,

00:22:34 ◼   ► but it won't be the Air that we'll probably see next week.

00:22:38 ◼   ► And that if there is this device that could come later on,

00:22:43 ◼   ► it could be in Q4.

00:22:45 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:22:47 ◼   ► I still, I don't think I can even say.

00:22:53 ◼   ► I have also heard that this is a perfectly logical thing,

00:22:56 ◼   ► them reusing the mini LED screen

00:22:58 ◼   ► because they already built it

00:23:00 ◼   ► and that I've heard that like that's a reasonable thing

00:23:04 ◼   ► for them to do.

00:23:05 ◼   ► - Young says that he heard from many supply chain sources

00:23:10 ◼   ► that this won't be happening,

00:23:12 ◼   ► that his earlier report was wrong.

00:23:14 ◼   ► - Not this one.

00:23:14 ◼   ► So there may be something going on there,

00:23:16 ◼   ► but it's not this one.

00:23:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, so they may be reusing that screen, yes,

00:23:20 ◼   ► but it's not this.

00:23:22 ◼   ► - Interesting, interesting.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Well, this is bad in the sense that that's a nice feature.

00:23:28 ◼   ► It's good in the sense that it probably allows the iPad Air

00:23:31 ◼   ► to be a little more clearly downscale from the iPad Pro.

00:23:35 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

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00:25:56 ◼   ► It is time to lawyer up, Jason Snow.

00:26:01 ◼   ► Now, clunk, clunk.

00:26:02 ◼   ► We have amazing artwork being made soon is what I'll say.

00:26:05 ◼   ► The artwork is coming soon.

00:26:07 ◼   ► It's very good, but it takes time.

00:26:09 ◼   ► Because today the European Union has designated the iPad

00:26:14 ◼   ► as a gatekeeper and had given Apple six months

00:26:18 ◼   ► to comply with the DMA rules for iPad OS.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Previously, the DMA had just applied to iPhone OS,

00:26:25 ◼   ► but now iPad OS.

00:26:26 ◼   ► I'm gonna quote from the EU's press release.

00:26:30 ◼   ► "The commission opened a market investigation

00:26:32 ◼   ► "to assess whether Apple's iPad OS,

00:26:35 ◼   ► "despite not meeting the quantitative thresholds laid down

00:26:38 ◼   ► "in the EMA constitutes an important gateway

00:26:41 ◼   ► "for business users to reach end users

00:26:43 ◼   ► "and therefore should be designated as a gatekeeper."

00:26:45 ◼   ► Basically, they're saying the iPad does exceed

00:26:49 ◼   ► the thresholds of users for them

00:26:51 ◼   ► and that those users are locked into iPad OS.

00:26:55 ◼   ► I think there's going to be a lot of argument

00:26:58 ◼   ► in a lot of places about whether or not the EU

00:27:02 ◼   ► has just basically extended the rules to include this,

00:27:06 ◼   ► but nevertheless, they're saying they want it to comply

00:27:11 ◼   ► so they have six months to comply and put the iPad

00:27:15 ◼   ► in the same bucket as the iPhone.

00:27:17 ◼   ► So that means at marketplaces and all that fun stuff

00:27:20 ◼   ► for those in Europe.

00:27:21 ◼   ► - Right, now in terms of the sheer technical aspect

00:27:26 ◼   ► of this, iPad OS and iOS are the same essentially.

00:27:30 ◼   ► So it will, they've done the work, right?

00:27:33 ◼   ► So it's not, extending it to iPad OS is not going

00:27:38 ◼   ► to be hard for them.

00:27:39 ◼   ► I'm just gonna predict because they've already done it

00:27:42 ◼   ► for iOS.

00:27:43 ◼   ► I'll be interested to see the justification here.

00:27:47 ◼   ► I'm fine with it.

00:27:48 ◼   ► I always felt it was very weird that we would talk

00:27:50 ◼   ► about this thing, but only in an iPhone context.

00:27:52 ◼   ► So some of this stuff feels like it's actually better

00:27:54 ◼   ► in an iPad context.

00:27:56 ◼   ► I say that as somebody who uses his iPad more

00:27:59 ◼   ► than he uses his iPhone, right?

00:28:01 ◼   ► Like I can picture it better, a lot of things I'd like

00:28:04 ◼   ► to do on the iPad and you can't do them.

00:28:06 ◼   ► So this will allow them to do that.

00:28:08 ◼   ► - So I actually think they've updated this press release

00:28:11 ◼   ► 'cause it's much more clear now than it was this morning

00:28:13 ◼   ► when I looked at this.

00:28:14 ◼   ► So that quote that I just read sounded weird, right?

00:28:18 ◼   ► But basically what they were trying to say is,

00:28:21 ◼   ► end user numbers for consumers,

00:28:24 ◼   ► the numbers weren't large enough to be in the threshold,

00:28:29 ◼   ► but now they are now saying that Apple's business

00:28:32 ◼   ► customer numbers exceed the quantitative threshold

00:28:36 ◼   ► for that 11 fold.

00:28:38 ◼   ► So that's why.

00:28:39 ◼   ► - And I believe what they said too is that they expect

00:28:42 ◼   ► that they will meet the quantitative threshold

00:28:45 ◼   ► for the regular users soon.

00:28:48 ◼   ► - 'Cause they say they are very close to it.

00:28:49 ◼   ► And so they're just basically getting ahead of it

00:28:52 ◼   ► and saying, put it in.

00:28:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, now I'm not gonna go into it here,

00:28:57 ◼   ► but we'll just say based on our discussion

00:28:59 ◼   ► about the Department of Justice suit,

00:29:04 ◼   ► that claiming that users are locked in

00:29:09 ◼   ► is an extremely debatable issue.

00:29:14 ◼   ► That said, justifications being whatever they are,

00:29:20 ◼   ► the European Commission has the force of law

00:29:24 ◼   ► to demand that Apple change its behavior.

00:29:26 ◼   ► So we can debate this,

00:29:28 ◼   ► but there's no debate society here in court

00:29:31 ◼   ► like there will be in the US.

00:29:33 ◼   ► This is just, they've decided it,

00:29:35 ◼   ► and therefore they will regulate it.

00:29:37 ◼   ► End result, I would argue,

00:29:40 ◼   ► will be a less fractured experience for users in the EU,

00:29:44 ◼   ► because it's gotta be weird to have stuff on your phone

00:29:48 ◼   ► that is completely unavailable on your iPad.

00:29:50 ◼   ► Although I will say this, if you've got a bunch of stuff,

00:29:56 ◼   ► you've embraced the DMA lifestyle in the EU on your iPhone,

00:30:00 ◼   ► and your iPad can't use any of that,

00:30:05 ◼   ► does making the iPad be compatible with all that stuff

00:30:11 ◼   ► actually make the iPad more part of an ecosystem

00:30:16 ◼   ► and therefore increase lock-in?

00:30:20 ◼   ► I'm just saying, right?

00:30:22 ◼   ► 'Cause if the iPad can't do all the stuff your phone can do,

00:30:25 ◼   ► and then there's stuff on Android that does it,

00:30:28 ◼   ► I mean, would you consider getting an Android, I don't know.

00:30:30 ◼   ► I'm being a little bit silly, but at the same time,

00:30:33 ◼   ► it actually sort of bringing the iPad

00:30:35 ◼   ► into alignment with the iPhone makes it actually easier

00:30:38 ◼   ► to just be comfortable in Apple's ecosystem,

00:30:40 ◼   ► because now those two things are connected

00:30:42 ◼   ► in a way that they weren't before.

00:30:43 ◼   ► But I guess we'll see what happens.

00:30:44 ◼   ► I don't anticipate this is gonna be a big deal.

00:30:47 ◼   ► My guess, if I had to guess right now,

00:30:49 ◼   ► it will be that Apple will have an update

00:30:51 ◼   ► that will follow the new OS version in the fall.

00:30:55 ◼   ► There will be a subsequent update

00:30:57 ◼   ► that will implement this in the EU sometime this fall,

00:31:02 ◼   ► right at the deadline, right?

00:31:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, it'll either be like 18.1 or whatever,

00:31:07 ◼   ► but it's gonna be around that time.

00:31:10 ◼   ► As you say, I mean, I'm sure there's work, but way less,

00:31:14 ◼   ► because they're essentially the same, right?

00:31:17 ◼   ► - And this is gonna be end of October,

00:31:19 ◼   ► so it could be 18.0, but it could also easily be

00:31:21 ◼   ► like an 18.1 update,

00:31:24 ◼   ► depending on how they wanna do their release schedule.

00:31:26 ◼   ► - I'm actually kind of happy this has happened

00:31:28 ◼   ► just to make the bifurcation less complicated.

00:31:33 ◼   ► - I agree, I agree.

00:31:34 ◼   ► It always felt a little bit weird

00:31:35 ◼   ► that we were talking about,

00:31:36 ◼   ► that we're so used to talking about everything

00:31:38 ◼   ► in the iPhone and iPad context,

00:31:40 ◼   ► and then there's this EU thing where it's just not.

00:31:43 ◼   ► So for us, it'll be more convenient, us outside the EU.

00:31:47 ◼   ► But I would imagine that there are a lot of people in the EU

00:31:50 ◼   ► who have iPhones and iPads who've been frustrated

00:31:51 ◼   ► 'cause they really love something,

00:31:53 ◼   ► whether it's just an emulator or whatever.

00:31:55 ◼   ► They're gonna be things that they like,

00:31:57 ◼   ► assuming that anybody adopts all of these changes, right?

00:32:00 ◼   ► But assuming you add an alternative app store

00:32:02 ◼   ► and all of that, like you get Fortnite, let's say,

00:32:04 ◼   ► and you get it on your phone, and you're like,

00:32:05 ◼   ► "Yeah, but I'm gonna switch to my iPad and play it there."

00:32:08 ◼   ► It's like, nope, you can't, you're not allowed.

00:32:10 ◼   ► Not allowed on the iPad, so this will change that.

00:32:13 ◼   ► - Room around uptime.

00:32:16 ◼   ► - Yeehaw.

00:32:17 ◼   ► - Mark Gurman's been busy.

00:32:18 ◼   ► He's had a bunch of reports in the last few days,

00:32:20 ◼   ► and I wanna go over them with you.

00:32:22 ◼   ► So first up, reporting that Apple and OpenAI

00:32:26 ◼   ► have renewed discussions about being a part of iOS 18.

00:32:30 ◼   ► This feels late in the game.

00:32:31 ◼   ► I'm wondering, so basically this is them being

00:32:36 ◼   ► one of the options, that Apple's gonna have

00:32:38 ◼   ► multiple partners, and like a search engine,

00:32:40 ◼   ► you'll be able to choose who you want.

00:32:42 ◼   ► I think that this is very much, I could imagine,

00:32:45 ◼   ► we're talking with multiple partners,

00:32:48 ◼   ► and they might not even go over it yet.

00:32:50 ◼   ► I mean, why wait for September for this part?

00:32:52 ◼   ► - We're not picking any winners, and well,

00:32:54 ◼   ► this goes with our speculation a while ago,

00:32:58 ◼   ► which is the idea is if Apple handles the front end

00:33:01 ◼   ► and has a model on the phone,

00:33:04 ◼   ► then a lot of stuff can be in the cloud,

00:33:08 ◼   ► and you can have different sources

00:33:09 ◼   ► for different kinds of material.

00:33:11 ◼   ► You can have different sources in different regions.

00:33:13 ◼   ► You could be able to choose a primary source

00:33:15 ◼   ► like a search engine, and it doesn't feel quite as

00:33:19 ◼   ► late in the game to me because it's a backend cloud service.

00:33:23 ◼   ► And I think, like if you're Apple,

00:33:26 ◼   ► you don't wanna tie yourself so closely

00:33:28 ◼   ► to a single cloud provider on the backend,

00:33:31 ◼   ► 'cause then you're kinda yoked to them.

00:33:34 ◼   ► And so I think this is the idea is it's all Apple up front,

00:33:38 ◼   ► and then back in the cloud, there's stuff,

00:33:41 ◼   ► and it might be open AI stuff, it might be Google stuff,

00:33:43 ◼   ► it might be other things that rise

00:33:45 ◼   ► or things that fall get pulled out,

00:33:47 ◼   ► and they can just have that all be,

00:33:50 ◼   ► it's backing information.

00:33:51 ◼   ► It's my LLM is gonna talk to your LLM,

00:33:55 ◼   ► and it's gonna give back information,

00:33:57 ◼   ► which then my LLM's gonna process it

00:34:00 ◼   ► and give it to the user, right?

00:34:01 ◼   ► It's gonna be stuff like that.

00:34:02 ◼   ► - Here's something that I think

00:34:04 ◼   ► could be interesting here, right?

00:34:05 ◼   ► Like I imagine Apple could potentially reference

00:34:08 ◼   ► the fact that this would happen, right?

00:34:09 ◼   ► There's on-device stuff, and then there's stuff

00:34:11 ◼   ► that happens off-device, and that's,

00:34:13 ◼   ► you know, there's another provider.

00:34:15 ◼   ► I, you know, we call those for the web,

00:34:19 ◼   ► they're search engines, right?

00:34:20 ◼   ► It's your default search engine.

00:34:21 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:34:22 ◼   ► - Is Apple going to create a term

00:34:25 ◼   ► to call ChatGPT, Gemini?

00:34:30 ◼   ► Like we call them like LLM's.

00:34:31 ◼   ► I don't think Apple's gonna do that.

00:34:33 ◼   ► I'd be surprised. - No, it'll be like,

00:34:34 ◼   ► like AI source or something, right?

00:34:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so my wonder is if Apple creates this term,

00:34:41 ◼   ► could that become a term, like the industry term

00:34:43 ◼   ► to describe these things?

00:34:44 ◼   ► It's possible?

00:34:45 ◼   ► - It's possible.

00:34:46 ◼   ► I also had the thought that,

00:34:48 ◼   ► depending on where they're integrating this stuff,

00:34:50 ◼   ► so let's say they're integrating this stuff

00:34:52 ◼   ► into a generative AI thing, right?

00:34:56 ◼   ► Where they're not gonna do generative,

00:34:58 ◼   ► it sounds like, out of the box for their tool,

00:35:00 ◼   ► but this is the sort of thing where it's like,

00:35:03 ◼   ► look at this paragraph and correct the grammar,

00:35:05 ◼   ► or write three paragraphs about this topic, right?

00:35:09 ◼   ► And first off, that's really great if Apple can like say,

00:35:12 ◼   ► "Nope, it wasn't us who hallucinated that thing.

00:35:14 ◼   ► "It was the Cloud AI provider."

00:35:18 ◼   ► But if they do that, one way for them to do that

00:35:20 ◼   ► is to integrate it into their text editing APIs, right?

00:35:25 ◼   ► Where, this is an interesting idea,

00:35:28 ◼   ► where there might be new LLM-based features

00:35:33 ◼   ► that are available through the text editing APIs

00:35:36 ◼   ► that are basically so it's at the system level.

00:35:39 ◼   ► And then you would choose your source potentially,

00:35:42 ◼   ► but you would be able, so if you're following me here,

00:35:45 ◼   ► like you could choose ChatGPT, or you could choose Gemini,

00:35:49 ◼   ► or you could choose something else, I don't even know.

00:35:52 ◼   ► And that would be what would be used when you say,

00:35:56 ◼   ► when you select text and say, correct this,

00:35:59 ◼   ► or when you are in pages and you say,

00:36:01 ◼   ► give me three paragraphs, it would use like, right?

00:36:05 ◼   ► Which would make sense in a certain way

00:36:06 ◼   ► that it would be pervasive in the system at an API level.

00:36:10 ◼   ► And then there would be the models that would be

00:36:13 ◼   ► part of that at the system level, right?

00:36:16 ◼   ► So instead of it being, we wired pages with ChatGPT,

00:36:20 ◼   ► it would be that system text and there's this API

00:36:24 ◼   ► and they know about each other

00:36:26 ◼   ► and your apps also will know about it

00:36:28 ◼   ► and get to use this feature.

00:36:30 ◼   ► And so app developers, 'cause at WWDC,

00:36:32 ◼   ► they'll be talking to app developers.

00:36:34 ◼   ► This is how you build this stuff in.

00:36:35 ◼   ► At a system level, which I think is smart,

00:36:38 ◼   ► I think that's a way to do it.

00:36:39 ◼   ► 'Cause then instead of you having to do the work

00:36:41 ◼   ► of integrating with an AI provider,

00:36:46 ◼   ► you integrate with a system

00:36:47 ◼   ► that you're used to integrating with

00:36:48 ◼   ► and it hands that stuff to you.

00:36:50 ◼   ► So if they do it that way, so it's like,

00:36:51 ◼   ► you can do it in notes, you can do it in pages,

00:36:53 ◼   ► you can do it in mail,

00:36:55 ◼   ► and you can do it in your third party apps.

00:36:57 ◼   ► That starts to sound like an app-ily approach

00:37:01 ◼   ► to using these LLMs.

00:37:03 ◼   ► - Also, Mark Gurman is reporting

00:37:08 ◼   ► some other features coming to iOS 18.

00:37:11 ◼   ► So updates to many built-in apps

00:37:13 ◼   ► like mail, fitness notes, and photos.

00:37:16 ◼   ► How much those updates, I don't know.

00:37:18 ◼   ► I could imagine all of these apps getting some AI stuff.

00:37:22 ◼   ► So I expect that to be sprinkled all over the place.

00:37:25 ◼   ► The iPad is going to get a calculator app

00:37:27 ◼   ► because the calculator app is going to be updated

00:37:30 ◼   ► and they're gonna put it on the iPad.

00:37:32 ◼   ► - Amazing.

00:37:32 ◼   ► - Pull one out for James Thompson.

00:37:34 ◼   ► - It only took him a million years.

00:37:36 ◼   ► - And once again, confirming the other reports,

00:37:40 ◼   ► free placement of icons on the home screen.

00:37:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, you wanna put that app down there in the corner?

00:37:46 ◼   ► - Go for it. - Great, do it.

00:37:48 ◼   ► - You know? - Yep.

00:37:49 ◼   ► What a life, what a world.

00:37:50 ◼   ► - Let's get some aesthetics up in there.

00:37:52 ◼   ► And also, Mark had a final report ahead of the new iPad

00:37:56 ◼   ► unveiling, which we're gonna talk about in a little bit,

00:37:58 ◼   ► the iPad event coming next week.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Two details, one, the Apple Pencil will have haptic feedback.

00:38:04 ◼   ► I don't know what this means.

00:38:06 ◼   ► Is this haptic like an iPhone or haptic like an AirPod?

00:38:11 ◼   ► You know?

00:38:12 ◼   ► They're both haptic feedback, but the AirPod,

00:38:15 ◼   ► it just feels like you're clicking it.

00:38:17 ◼   ► Or the Magic Trackpad or whatever.

00:38:20 ◼   ► But the iPhone, I mean, now things like buzzing and bipping

00:38:22 ◼   ► and blooping all over the place.

00:38:24 ◼   ► So what's it gonna be?

00:38:25 ◼   ► - Right, so is it a button that you squeeze

00:38:28 ◼   ► and it makes it, you have a little,

00:38:31 ◼   ► it feels like you squeezed it?

00:38:32 ◼   ► Or is it that I'm drawing on the screen

00:38:34 ◼   ► and it's going, you know, when you get to the edge

00:38:37 ◼   ► or when you snap to a marker or whatever?

00:38:40 ◼   ► - Do Apple do what so many people have tried to do

00:38:42 ◼   ► and say, "It feels like you're drawing on paper,"

00:38:44 ◼   ► because they like give you a little vibration?

00:38:47 ◼   ► - Let me tell you, having experienced the haptic feedback

00:38:51 ◼   ► on the Magic Trackpad, which I've turned off on Mac OS,

00:38:55 ◼   ► where they have that thing where it hits the rule boundary

00:38:58 ◼   ► and it locks, it snaps for a moment

00:39:01 ◼   ► and it vibrates the trackpad.

00:39:03 ◼   ► I hate all that stuff.

00:39:04 ◼   ► No, don't do it.

00:39:05 ◼   ► But if it's AirPod-like where it's sort of like

00:39:09 ◼   ► I squeeze it and I get some feedback,

00:39:10 ◼   ► so that's how they're doing their button, that's fine.

00:39:13 ◼   ► I'm also worried about if you use it too much,

00:39:15 ◼   ► you're gonna kill the battery too on top of everything else.

00:39:17 ◼   ► - Very possible.

00:39:19 ◼   ► But the weird news, honestly, Mark Gurman believes,

00:39:24 ◼   ► he doesn't feel sure about this himself, I think,

00:39:27 ◼   ► from his reporting, that he has heard

00:39:30 ◼   ► that the iPad Pro could feature an M4 chip

00:39:32 ◼   ► and would be positioned as an AI-powered device.

00:39:36 ◼   ► I have two issues with this.

00:39:40 ◼   ► One, it's strange, I mean, not impossible,

00:39:44 ◼   ► but strange to introduce the M4 here.

00:39:46 ◼   ► Like, that is odd.

00:39:48 ◼   ► - It would be even weirder for them to talk about this

00:39:50 ◼   ► as an AI-powered device when nothing will change

00:39:55 ◼   ► for another six weeks, right, at minimum.

00:39:57 ◼   ► It's only as AI-powered as any other current product

00:40:02 ◼   ► that Apple sells.

00:40:03 ◼   ► Like, it's not, okay, they may get

00:40:06 ◼   ► the neural engine enhancements

00:40:08 ◼   ► that every A&M series chip has had, right?

00:40:11 ◼   ► That like, things that like in a Pixel major on the iPad

00:40:17 ◼   ► will happen quicker, but that's not making it

00:40:19 ◼   ► any more AI-powered than before, just things happen faster.

00:40:23 ◼   ► This would be, I would be fascinated to see

00:40:26 ◼   ► if they're able to pull that off,

00:40:28 ◼   ► but it would be surprising to me, honestly.

00:40:30 ◼   ► - I could not believe this report.

00:40:34 ◼   ► - No.

00:40:35 ◼   ► - It doesn't make sense to me for so many reasons.

00:40:38 ◼   ► It doesn't make sense in terms of the chip cycle.

00:40:44 ◼   ► Like, this is doing a chip ahead of the chip cycle,

00:40:49 ◼   ► ahead of the iPhone chip cycle.

00:40:52 ◼   ► It's, you know, what even is an M4 chip

00:40:55 ◼   ► if it comes out a few months after the M3 chip?

00:40:59 ◼   ► Also, wasn't this product supposed to be released

00:41:02 ◼   ► like a month or two ago?

00:41:03 ◼   ► And like, it was even closer to the, like,

00:41:06 ◼   ► I wonder if there's some enthusiasm for this product

00:41:10 ◼   ► that has gotten in the way, 'cause I've heard people

00:41:13 ◼   ► assuming it was an M4 to begin with,

00:41:14 ◼   ► and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:41:16 ◼   ► No, we're not there yet.

00:41:17 ◼   ► This is M3, this is late M3 cycle, not M4 cycle.

00:41:21 ◼   ► So it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

00:41:24 ◼   ► And the AI stuff, right, like, the AI stuff is happening

00:41:26 ◼   ► in June at WWDC, right?

00:41:28 ◼   ► That's what we've all been told.

00:41:30 ◼   ► So why is it that a month earlier,

00:41:34 ◼   ► there's a product launch that details AI features,

00:41:37 ◼   ► but just for the iPad, and also has this chip

00:41:42 ◼   ► that should probably not be available for six months?

00:41:45 ◼   ► It doesn't, I mean, you're right, Mark Gurman is hedging,

00:41:49 ◼   ► but it's also Mark Gurman.

00:41:51 ◼   ► - I think he has the same, I'm going to infer

00:41:56 ◼   ► he has the same skepticism that we do,

00:41:59 ◼   ► that on the face of what he has said,

00:42:01 ◼   ► it doesn't make sense.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Like, but I can understand a scenario

00:42:06 ◼   ► where take the AI part of it, that the M4 chip is so good

00:42:11 ◼   ► for what they're going to announce,

00:42:13 ◼   ► that they're just putting it in here now,

00:42:15 ◼   ► because it's the best thing for September, October time.

00:42:19 ◼   ► - Right, so I've got, so I, let's say, I don't believe this,

00:42:24 ◼   ► but I have a scenario where this happens.

00:42:29 ◼   ► So here it is, we already did our draft,

00:42:32 ◼   ► we'll talk about it, but I have a scenario

00:42:35 ◼   ► where this happens, so scenario one, the chip.

00:42:39 ◼   ► The, what if the AI stuff really did,

00:42:44 ◼   ► like Apple was concerned enough about the rise of AI stuff,

00:42:48 ◼   ► that while they couldn't change their roadmap,

00:42:51 ◼   ► there was a way to expedite a generation where they're like,

00:42:55 ◼   ► this is going to be way better,

00:42:57 ◼   ► and expedite the base chip from that generation,

00:43:01 ◼   ► and pull it forward a little bit.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Like, is that impossible?

00:43:05 ◼   ► No, it doesn't, it's not something they've done before,

00:43:09 ◼   ► but first off, they can call anything an M4,

00:43:13 ◼   ► it could literally be an M3 on a different process,

00:43:16 ◼   ► and they could call it M4.

00:43:18 ◼   ► So there's that, right?

00:43:19 ◼   ► Like how different is it?

00:43:20 ◼   ► And is it possible that they felt like

00:43:23 ◼   ► they were going to expedite the low end M4 generation chip,

00:43:27 ◼   ► and get it out now?

00:43:28 ◼   ► Although keep in mind, there's an M3 chip,

00:43:29 ◼   ► according to Germin, that hasn't even shipped yet

00:43:31 ◼   ► in a product, right?

00:43:34 ◼   ► That they're planning on shipping.

00:43:35 ◼   ► So how would this be an M4?

00:43:37 ◼   ► But I'm just saying,

00:43:38 ◼   ► just because I'm trying to play this out,

00:43:40 ◼   ► is there a scenario where they kind of did a red alert,

00:43:44 ◼   ► and they were targeting this generation,

00:43:47 ◼   ► and saying, can we get this?

00:43:49 ◼   ► Or maybe they got it, the fab at TSMC came up,

00:43:54 ◼   ► that could make this, and they're like, you know what?

00:43:56 ◼   ► We could put this in that iPad,

00:43:58 ◼   ► 'cause it's not going to ship in the kind of quantity

00:44:00 ◼   ► where we need to get it up and running,

00:44:03 ◼   ► and then by the time we need this in some iMacs,

00:44:05 ◼   ► or a MacBook Air, it's going to be six months from now,

00:44:09 ◼   ► and we can put it in now,

00:44:10 ◼   ► and it will give us a little bit of a benefit.

00:44:11 ◼   ► - And if we're talking ourselves into this, right?

00:44:14 ◼   ► This, we've been expecting these iPads for like two months.

00:44:18 ◼   ► - I know, and so you, yeah.

00:44:19 ◼   ► Although, so that actually--

00:44:20 ◼   ► - And then also, if I make one last point,

00:44:22 ◼   ► and what if some of the features that are AI focused,

00:44:29 ◼   ► they realized we can only have this on new hardware?

00:44:34 ◼   ► - Okay, so this is a good segue into my other point here,

00:44:37 ◼   ► which is, remember, they were supposed to come earlier,

00:44:42 ◼   ► according to Mark Gurman, and then they weren't.

00:44:45 ◼   ► And one of the things that he kept saying was,

00:44:48 ◼   ► because of the software update, and again,

00:44:51 ◼   ► I'm not saying I believe this report, 'cause I don't,

00:44:54 ◼   ► but he said because of the software update,

00:44:56 ◼   ► and we read that as being, well,

00:44:58 ◼   ► they gotta add in the software for the keyboard,

00:45:00 ◼   ► and they gotta add in the software for the pencil.

00:45:03 ◼   ► - I think Mark read it that way too.

00:45:04 ◼   ► I think that's how it seemed.

00:45:05 ◼   ► - But again, just spitballing here,

00:45:08 ◼   ► I don't think this is likely,

00:45:10 ◼   ► but I'm just gonna put it out there.

00:45:12 ◼   ► What if there were some features

00:45:15 ◼   ► that were plausibly AI related?

00:45:18 ◼   ► If Apple's really feeling the heat about AI,

00:45:21 ◼   ► plausibly AI related, that were previously going to be held

00:45:26 ◼   ► for another version of the software,

00:45:28 ◼   ► for an 18 beta and then an 18 release,

00:45:32 ◼   ► that were far enough along that they put them,

00:45:36 ◼   ► and again, that they pulled them back and said,

00:45:39 ◼   ► let's make this work on a very late 17 release on iPad OS,

00:45:44 ◼   ► mark it as a beta, but let us ship it in May,

00:45:49 ◼   ► and say, because then we're gonna be able to say

00:45:52 ◼   ► these new iPads are AI monsters,

00:45:54 ◼   ► and it's gonna get some of the heat off of us.

00:45:57 ◼   ► - Because realistically-- - Is that impossible?

00:45:59 ◼   ► - Like, is there even-- - I mean, yeah, that's enough.

00:46:02 ◼   ► - If it's a Siri model, right?

00:46:05 ◼   ► We'll just say for the sake of it,

00:46:07 ◼   ► we'll call it Siri, right?

00:46:08 ◼   ► And it's doing some stuff.

00:46:10 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:46:10 ◼   ► - Is there even an SDK for that anyway?

00:46:12 ◼   ► - Right, is there a developer story at all?

00:46:15 ◼   ► - Does it need to wait for that?

00:46:16 ◼   ► And they can also still have like a,

00:46:18 ◼   ► hey, we have a new AI kit that you can integrate with,

00:46:22 ◼   ► but you're right, could they stage it out?

00:46:24 ◼   ► Could there be a part of it that's like,

00:46:26 ◼   ► it doesn't really need beta testing

00:46:29 ◼   ► because it's not necessarily, I don't know, I don't know.

00:46:33 ◼   ► - It could also be literally that they tie pages and notes

00:46:37 ◼   ► and stuff into an LLM as a beta,

00:46:42 ◼   ► and it's not the Apple thing at all,

00:46:44 ◼   ► it's just some other features, and they're like,

00:46:46 ◼   ► look, AI, more to come, and then they walk away.

00:46:50 ◼   ► So I guess what I'm saying is,

00:46:53 ◼   ► I can't entirely discount this rumor

00:46:56 ◼   ► because if Apple was desperate enough

00:47:01 ◼   ► to show that they're not behind in AI,

00:47:05 ◼   ► I mean, they are not as far behind in AI

00:47:08 ◼   ► as they're portrayed to be, and to make the stock market,

00:47:13 ◼   ► make their investors feel good about it.

00:47:16 ◼   ► And I'm not saying that is, quite the opposite,

00:47:19 ◼   ► that is not the way to develop a product.

00:47:23 ◼   ► - Can I just say on that for a second,

00:47:25 ◼   ► 'cause a lot of people say this,

00:47:26 ◼   ► there is a possibility that Apple do not want

00:47:29 ◼   ► this perception inside of the technology community,

00:47:32 ◼   ► that it's not just for investors,

00:47:34 ◼   ► it's that generally in the community,

00:47:38 ◼   ► they are considered as behind.

00:47:39 ◼   ► And also, do you know what this is before?

00:47:42 ◼   ► It's before Google I/O, where it is very expected

00:47:47 ◼   ► that Google is about to drop huge Gemini integrations

00:47:51 ◼   ► into Android, and that they are going to potentially

00:47:55 ◼   ► keep some of it for themselves on their own devices.

00:47:58 ◼   ► And maybe they wanna get ahead of that too, I don't know.

00:48:01 ◼   ► Like we're in for what is unprecedented times for a while,

00:48:05 ◼   ► because the playing field has been leveled a bit.

00:48:09 ◼   ► - Right, so what I would say is,

00:48:12 ◼   ► it's not necessarily about the stock market,

00:48:15 ◼   ► but it is also about the stock market.

00:48:17 ◼   ► It is about general perception, general perception about it.

00:48:20 ◼   ► It is about competition, which is great.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Also, I can see Apple saying,

00:48:28 ◼   ► we have some of this stuff now, right?

00:48:35 ◼   ► So I say, this isn't how you design and develop a product,

00:48:38 ◼   ► but I can see them saying, you know what?

00:48:41 ◼   ► We have some of this stuff now,

00:48:43 ◼   ► and we're gonna have more in the future.

00:48:45 ◼   ► And we've got these new iPads coming out,

00:48:46 ◼   ► and then we're not gonna update iPads for a year and a half.

00:48:49 ◼   ► So if we're gonna do this, maybe we should,

00:48:51 ◼   ► if we've got it and we can make some claims now,

00:48:54 ◼   ► let's make some claims now,

00:48:55 ◼   ► and let's change the narrative going into WWDC

00:48:58 ◼   ► with our first, and it doesn't have to run anywhere else yet,

00:49:01 ◼   ► but like our first super AI powered product,

00:49:05 ◼   ► and it's the iPad Pro, let's say, and that sets the table.

00:49:08 ◼   ► So again, do I think that this is likely?

00:49:12 ◼   ► I kind of don't.

00:49:13 ◼   ► Do I think that Apple will position the iPad Pro

00:49:15 ◼   ► as an AI powered device?

00:49:17 ◼   ► Well, probably, because everything is AI powered.

00:49:19 ◼   ► They positioned the MacBook Air as an AI powered device too,

00:49:22 ◼   ► to a certain extent.

00:49:23 ◼   ► So if they add a feature here or there

00:49:25 ◼   ► in that software update, they will certainly,

00:49:28 ◼   ► if it's got any machine learning algorithms in it,

00:49:30 ◼   ► they will make claims that it is.

00:49:31 ◼   ► But if it's got something where they're like,

00:49:34 ◼   ► you know what, we pulled pages,

00:49:35 ◼   ► AI powered pages forward or whatever,

00:49:38 ◼   ► then they'll do that.

00:49:40 ◼   ► If they've got some APIs that they can,

00:49:41 ◼   ► that were basically at the ready,

00:49:43 ◼   ► that they changed their priority on four months ago

00:49:47 ◼   ► to get them in a little bit sooner, marked as a beta,

00:49:51 ◼   ► because remember, the counter argument is

00:49:52 ◼   ► it's only a month till WWDC,

00:49:54 ◼   ► which means it's really only like five or six weeks

00:49:56 ◼   ► before they would release a beta of the new features.

00:50:01 ◼   ► So could you polish them a little more

00:50:04 ◼   ► so that they fit in the existing OS

00:50:06 ◼   ► and still call them beta?

00:50:08 ◼   ► And I know developer beta is scary,

00:50:09 ◼   ► but you give them an extra three or four months.

00:50:11 ◼   ► Like all of this is possible.

00:50:14 ◼   ► I think the chip part is the most outlandish one

00:50:18 ◼   ► because it goes against everything they've done.

00:50:20 ◼   ► And also, like I've said all along,

00:50:23 ◼   ► Apple's chips already have AI ML capabilities.

00:50:27 ◼   ► They've, between the neural engine

00:50:29 ◼   ► and the stuff they've been doing on the GPU,

00:50:31 ◼   ► like they have lots of that stuff already built in.

00:50:33 ◼   ► It doesn't require like to flip the switch

00:50:35 ◼   ► to go to an AI chip.

00:50:36 ◼   ► Like they don't need to do that.

00:50:38 ◼   ► So I'm super skeptical,

00:50:41 ◼   ► but I can't just say it's not gonna happen

00:50:45 ◼   ► because I think you gotta look at the fact

00:50:48 ◼   ► that Apple is fighting this perception in the industry,

00:50:51 ◼   ► in the stock market,

00:50:53 ◼   ► just in general that they have lost the plot.

00:50:56 ◼   ► And although you might be like,

00:50:57 ◼   ► "Ah, they'll just shrug it off. They always do."

00:51:00 ◼   ► Yeah, but Tim Cook is going on,

00:51:02 ◼   ► the industry quarterly analyst calls,

00:51:05 ◼   ► talking about how they're gonna do AI.

00:51:07 ◼   ► He's talking to doing interviews and saying,

00:51:09 ◼   ► "AI is a big focus for us.

00:51:11 ◼   ► And we're gonna make some big AI announcements

00:51:14 ◼   ► later this year."

00:51:14 ◼   ► That is a sign that they are very concerned about perception.

00:51:17 ◼   ► And we saw with the MacBook Air release

00:51:22 ◼   ► that they've changed how they refer to features.

00:51:26 ◼   ► And they are talking about AI power now,

00:51:29 ◼   ► which they always soft-pedaled.

00:51:31 ◼   ► They're now hard selling it.

00:51:33 ◼   ► And calling it AI.

00:51:34 ◼   ► Because they are concerned about their perception.

00:51:37 ◼   ► So we do exist in a world where Apple is deeply concerned

00:51:40 ◼   ► about the perception that they are losing it

00:51:42 ◼   ► when it comes to AI.

00:51:44 ◼   ► So while this is an extreme bizarre assertion

00:51:48 ◼   ► that it's gonna be an M4 chip with AI features,

00:51:51 ◼   ► I don't think we can rule it out

00:51:53 ◼   ► because Apple is feeling that pressure.

00:51:55 ◼   ► And that might have led Apple

00:51:57 ◼   ► to make some surprising off-pattern judgments

00:52:00 ◼   ► a few months ago,

00:52:02 ◼   ► which potentially delayed this product.

00:52:05 ◼   ► Especially, I'll bring us back to that original report,

00:52:08 ◼   ► delayed because of software.

00:52:10 ◼   ► - I'm still not convinced,

00:52:12 ◼   ► but I'm more convinced than I was when I read this report.

00:52:16 ◼   ► Like I feel like we have talked ourselves around on it

00:52:19 ◼   ► that I can understand the scenario in which it would happen,

00:52:21 ◼   ► but I'm still not sure that it will.

00:52:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's, I don't know.

00:52:25 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure they will position it

00:52:28 ◼   ► as an AI powered device, right?

00:52:29 ◼   ► But like, and it would not be,

00:52:32 ◼   ► again, I just wanna say,

00:52:33 ◼   ► it would not be that wild.

00:52:36 ◼   ► I know everybody's like,

00:52:37 ◼   ► "Oh, they're breaking their pattern.

00:52:37 ◼   ► They're not gonna do that."

00:52:39 ◼   ► But like, it would not be that wild for them to say,

00:52:42 ◼   ► "We have new versions of iWork

00:52:43 ◼   ► that have AI features in them."

00:52:45 ◼   ► Right?

00:52:46 ◼   ► I mean, they could do something like that.

00:52:48 ◼   ► That's not everywhere in the OS is a pervasive thing.

00:52:51 ◼   ► But you're right, Mike.

00:52:52 ◼   ► They could also say,

00:52:53 ◼   ► here's a preview, you know,

00:52:54 ◼   ► you can turn on this beta preview of Siri 2

00:52:57 ◼   ► or Siri Pro or whatever,

00:52:59 ◼   ► Siri AI on the iPad Pro.

00:53:01 ◼   ► And people are like, "What do you mean?

00:53:02 ◼   ► It's just on the iPad Pro."

00:53:03 ◼   ► And they're like, "Mm, wait and see."

00:53:07 ◼   ► They could do that too.

00:53:08 ◼   ► So, certainly I would guarantee

00:53:11 ◼   ► there will be an AI story at this event about the iPad.

00:53:14 ◼   ► There will absolutely be.

00:53:16 ◼   ► The question is,

00:53:17 ◼   ► is it as kind of radical as it seems here in this report?

00:53:20 ◼   ► Or is it more what we expected,

00:53:23 ◼   ► which is Apple's gonna,

00:53:24 ◼   ► like with a MacBook Air,

00:53:25 ◼   ► they're gonna kind of push it and say,

00:53:26 ◼   ► "Yeah, AI, AI."

00:53:29 ◼   ► But we're really gonna need to wait

00:53:30 ◼   ► until the developer conference to see more.

00:53:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

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00:55:27 ◼   ► and Real AFM.

00:55:28 ◼   ► So there is an iPad event.

00:55:31 ◼   ► There is an actual video event,

00:55:33 ◼   ► which we did not expect. - Yeah.

00:55:35 ◼   ► - And it is happening on May 7th.

00:55:37 ◼   ► Now, leading on from that conversation we just had,

00:55:39 ◼   ► I'm like, why would they do that?

00:55:42 ◼   ► They have something to say?

00:55:44 ◼   ► Oh, I'm coming around to this report

00:55:48 ◼   ► that I'm not sure about.

00:55:49 ◼   ► So we'll be recording after the event at some point.

00:55:53 ◼   ► So on May 7th, because we'll be talking

00:55:56 ◼   ► about the thing that it was,

00:55:57 ◼   ► but we have already drafted.

00:55:58 ◼   ► So I've spent a few days with my friend and our friend,

00:56:02 ◼   ► friend of the show, _DavidSmith.

00:56:04 ◼   ► I'm gonna talk about that in Upgrade Plus today

00:56:06 ◼   ► because we got up to some fun stuff.

00:56:08 ◼   ► And he referenced to me, he's like,

00:56:10 ◼   ► are you gonna draft today?

00:56:11 ◼   ► And he was like, oh, you already did it.

00:56:13 ◼   ► Yes, we already did it on March 25th.

00:56:17 ◼   ► Over a month ago, we drafted

00:56:19 ◼   ► because we were expecting some press releases to appear.

00:56:23 ◼   ► But no, now we have an actual event coming up,

00:56:27 ◼   ► which I'm excited about.

00:56:28 ◼   ► It's gonna be interesting.

00:56:29 ◼   ► I thought though, what might be fun today

00:56:32 ◼   ► is to now in the cruel light of a month later,

00:56:35 ◼   ► look at our picks and run through them real quick

00:56:37 ◼   ► and see how confident we're feeling about them

00:56:40 ◼   ► one way or another ahead of scoring them next week.

00:56:43 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:56:44 ◼   ► - Let's do it.

00:56:46 ◼   ► - All right, you go through yours and I'll go through mine.

00:56:48 ◼   ► - Okay, new Apple Pencil introduced.

00:56:52 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:56:53 ◼   ► - Feel good about it.

00:56:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:56:56 ◼   ► - I think that is- - That one's good.

00:56:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, that one's good.

00:56:59 ◼   ► Oh, some of these others are not so good,

00:57:01 ◼   ► but that one's good.

00:57:02 ◼   ► Larger track pad on the Magic Keyboard.

00:57:06 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:57:08 ◼   ► - I'm just trying to imagine.

00:57:09 ◼   ► So the rationale here is I'm trying to imagine,

00:57:12 ◼   ► I'm also seeing in the harsh light of day,

00:57:15 ◼   ► why I've lost so many drafts in a row

00:57:17 ◼   ► is it's 'cause I'm making dumb picks, that's why.

00:57:19 ◼   ► I'm making picks that are entertaining

00:57:22 ◼   ► and that I want to happen and not picks that are boring

00:57:25 ◼   ► and actually going to happen.

00:57:27 ◼   ► So the rationale here is

00:57:30 ◼   ► if you're gonna do a Magic Keyboard

00:57:32 ◼   ► and one of the big knocks on it is the lack of function rows

00:57:36 ◼   ► and the other big knock on it is the track pad is tiny,

00:57:39 ◼   ► would you not make the track pad bigger?

00:57:42 ◼   ► That's it, that's all I got.

00:57:44 ◼   ► The base model iPad receives an update.

00:57:50 ◼   ► Now, I think I've seen some reports

00:57:52 ◼   ► that that's not happening.

00:57:53 ◼   ► - Oh, really?

00:57:54 ◼   ► - So I thought I saw something that said

00:57:56 ◼   ► that that wasn't gonna happen.

00:57:58 ◼   ► So we'll see, we'll see.

00:58:01 ◼   ► An iPad Pro case is offered in a color

00:58:03 ◼   ► that isn't essentially gray, white or black.

00:58:06 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't know Mike.

00:58:09 ◼   ► Right now they used to do it in colors

00:58:13 ◼   ► and then they kind of took the colors away.

00:58:15 ◼   ► So I'm concerned about this,

00:58:16 ◼   ► but again, I wanna manifest things that are good

00:58:20 ◼   ► into the world by picking them on a draft.

00:58:22 ◼   ► It's not how you should draft.

00:58:24 ◼   ► iPad Pro has a new OS feature

00:58:26 ◼   ► that takes advantage of a new accessory.

00:58:27 ◼   ► I think that's a given, right?

00:58:30 ◼   ► There'll be something

00:58:30 ◼   ► that takes advantage of a new accessory.

00:58:33 ◼   ► Pencil thing that is alternate pencil items or something.

00:58:38 ◼   ► - There's an expectation of some kind of button or feature.

00:58:42 ◼   ► So like you've got to tie it to something.

00:58:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:58:46 ◼   ► Magic Keyboard comes color matched to iPad Pro models.

00:58:50 ◼   ► So right, currently it's like white and gray.

00:58:56 ◼   ► So, but there's this metallic,

00:58:58 ◼   ► it's supposed to be like aluminum.

00:59:00 ◼   ► So I feel like they want to make them match.

00:59:03 ◼   ► I actually feel okay about that pick too.

00:59:05 ◼   ► You have a lot of Magic Keyboard picks here.

00:59:07 ◼   ► I'm really excited about the Magic Keyboard.

00:59:08 ◼   ► That's the problem.

00:59:10 ◼   ► Magic Keyboard only works with 2024 iPad Pro models.

00:59:12 ◼   ► I still believe that too.

00:59:14 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:59:15 ◼   ► - It'll eventually work with others,

00:59:16 ◼   ► but I think not out of the gate.

00:59:18 ◼   ► - No.

00:59:19 ◼   ► - And new Apple Pencil has an eraser,

00:59:21 ◼   ► which we said at the time,

00:59:23 ◼   ► if you can flip it over and erase something in a mode,

00:59:27 ◼   ► then that's what I'm talking about.

00:59:29 ◼   ► It's sort of a second surface to do that sort of thing.

00:59:33 ◼   ► I don't know what happens.

00:59:34 ◼   ► We'd have to check the tape if you can press a button

00:59:37 ◼   ► and turn it into a eraser,

00:59:38 ◼   ► but that's sort of not what I was thinking.

00:59:40 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:59:41 ◼   ► - Those are my choices.

00:59:42 ◼   ► Mine are both iPad Pro models have an OLED display.

00:59:46 ◼   ► - I'm feeling good about that.

00:59:48 ◼   ► - The iPad Pro front camera is on the horizontal edge.

00:59:52 ◼   ► - Feeling good about that.

00:59:53 ◼   ► - iPad Air comes in current iPad Pro sizes.

00:59:56 ◼   ► - Also feeling good about that.

00:59:58 ◼   ► - iPad Pro starts at a higher price.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Feeling good about that.

01:00:02 ◼   ► New Magic Keyboard has a function row.

01:00:05 ◼   ► - I think, why not?

01:00:06 ◼   ► - This is very similar to your larger trackpad.

01:00:08 ◼   ► If you're gonna do it, actually do it.

01:00:10 ◼   ► - Do it.

01:00:11 ◼   ► - Do it if you're gonna do it.

01:00:12 ◼   ► - The iPad Air front camera is on the horizontal edge.

01:00:15 ◼   ► I'm going all horizontal edge.

01:00:17 ◼   ► I didn't remember doing that.

01:00:18 ◼   ► - It's interesting 'cause it's possible.

01:00:21 ◼   ► I mean, it should be, right?

01:00:22 ◼   ► But it's possible that this will be one of those frustrations

01:00:25 ◼   ► where Apple still doesn't drag the whole product line

01:00:28 ◼   ► where it needs to go

01:00:29 ◼   ► because it's reusing old hardware designs or something.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:00:34 ◼   ► I hope so.

01:00:35 ◼   ► - The new Apple Pencil charges magnetically.

01:00:39 ◼   ► And the reason that that is a,

01:00:41 ◼   ► I guess a pick of question is because of the camera, right?

01:00:45 ◼   ► What happens to that thing?

01:00:47 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:00:48 ◼   ► They came up with that new Apple Pencil

01:00:49 ◼   ► that charges via USB-C.

01:00:52 ◼   ► So there's a question, if they move the camera,

01:00:55 ◼   ► do they offer magnetic charging

01:00:58 ◼   ► or is it just also a USB-C kind of thing?

01:01:02 ◼   ► - And the iPad Pro gets MagSafe for charging.

01:01:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:06 ◼   ► I don't think that one's gonna happen.

01:01:08 ◼   ► - I still do, but I think it's not MagSafe

01:01:10 ◼   ► as we think of it.

01:01:11 ◼   ► - Like it could even be Mac MagSafe or something else.

01:01:15 ◼   ► I mean, they already have two MagSafes.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Why not have another one?

01:01:19 ◼   ► - Why not more MagSafes?

01:01:20 ◼   ► - Why not just keep doing it?

01:01:22 ◼   ► Do they say that the Apple Watch charges via MagSafe?

01:01:26 ◼   ► - Uh, no. - I don't think they do.

01:01:28 ◼   ► I don't think they do.

01:01:29 ◼   ► - No.

01:01:30 ◼   ► - Yeah. - No, they don't.

01:01:31 ◼   ► - That would be funny, though.

01:01:33 ◼   ► I'm feeling confident about mine.

01:01:35 ◼   ► I think that you're being too harsh on yours.

01:01:38 ◼   ► I still think there's a lot of stuff in here

01:01:40 ◼   ► which will happen, but I feel better about my picks

01:01:45 ◼   ► than your feeling about yours, I think.

01:01:47 ◼   ► - Yes, I feel better about your picks

01:01:49 ◼   ► than I'm feeling about mine.

01:01:50 ◼   ► - Maybe that's why I'm champion.

01:01:51 ◼   ► - I think so.

01:01:53 ◼   ► Confidence. - Maybe that's why.

01:01:55 ◼   ► - And also not making bad picks, those two things.

01:01:57 ◼   ► - To be champion, you have to make good picks.

01:02:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, my advice to people who are playing drafts,

01:02:02 ◼   ► make better picks.

01:02:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, really good.

01:02:06 ◼   ► - Make good picks and you win.

01:02:07 ◼   ► Yeah, make dumb picks and you will not win.

01:02:10 ◼   ► That's just how it goes.

01:02:11 ◼   ► - I have a story for you, Jason Snow.

01:02:13 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:02:14 ◼   ► - Something that happened to me over the weekend.

01:02:17 ◼   ► - It's gonna be one of those good stories, right?

01:02:18 ◼   ► Really happy story, like affirming, life affirming.

01:02:21 ◼   ► - Don't think so.

01:02:23 ◼   ► It's an interesting story.

01:02:24 ◼   ► So on Friday, reports started appearing,

01:02:28 ◼   ► and I've got a link here for 9to5Mac,

01:02:31 ◼   ► of people having their Apple IDs locked randomly

01:02:35 ◼   ► and that password changes were required to unlock

01:02:40 ◼   ► their Apple ID.

01:02:42 ◼   ► And as of recording, so this happened on Friday,

01:02:45 ◼   ► as of recording on Monday, there has been no clarity

01:02:48 ◼   ► over why this happened.

01:02:50 ◼   ► And it seemed like it was relatively widespread.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I have a few friends that I know this happened to,

01:02:58 ◼   ► and there was a lot of reports of it

01:03:00 ◼   ► that are in somebody's art course.

01:03:02 ◼   ► I was away this weekend.

01:03:05 ◼   ► I went to the Lake District with our friend,

01:03:08 ◼   ► underscore David Smith.

01:03:09 ◼   ► We did some hiking.

01:03:10 ◼   ► It was a wonderful trip.

01:03:11 ◼   ► - I love the Lake District.

01:03:13 ◼   ► - I had a notification on my Apple Watch

01:03:15 ◼   ► at 6.15 in the morning on Friday to enter my password.

01:03:20 ◼   ► So I was gonna be waking up at seven,

01:03:22 ◼   ► so it was a little early, but I felt a tap.

01:03:24 ◼   ► You know, I was like, I guess I was kinda starting to rise.

01:03:27 ◼   ► I felt a tap.

01:03:28 ◼   ► And it said, enter your password for your Apple ID,

01:03:31 ◼   ► which I thought was very peculiar,

01:03:33 ◼   ► but I was still slightly asleep,

01:03:36 ◼   ► and I managed to type it in on my Apple Watch.

01:03:39 ◼   ► No problem, you know?

01:03:41 ◼   ► Type, type, type, type, type, enter.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Your Apple ID has been locked.

01:03:46 ◼   ► Now that was odd, I will say.

01:03:49 ◼   ► And the reason I did this is 'cause the hotel that I was in,

01:03:52 ◼   ► it did not have, I hate when this happens,

01:03:54 ◼   ► they did not have plug sockets next to the bed.

01:03:58 ◼   ► So my phone was charging over on a little desk.

01:04:03 ◼   ► So that was why I didn't grab my phone

01:04:05 ◼   ► to type in my password, right?

01:04:07 ◼   ► So I get up and go grab my phone, grab my phone,

01:04:11 ◼   ► and it says your Apple ID has been locked.

01:04:13 ◼   ► Unlock your Apple ID.

01:04:15 ◼   ► So I tap whatever button to put in my password,

01:04:18 ◼   ► and it says, oh, sir, no, no, no.

01:04:21 ◼   ► Stolen device protection,

01:04:22 ◼   ► because I'm not at home, kicks in,

01:04:25 ◼   ► to tell me, you know, for the safety of my device

01:04:29 ◼   ► and my Apple ID, I will need to wait an hour now.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Now, the key thing here is,

01:04:36 ◼   ► I think this is happening just to me at this point.

01:04:39 ◼   ► I don't know, I didn't see the reports, I was sleeping.

01:04:42 ◼   ► I didn't know that this was like a widespread thing

01:04:45 ◼   ► that was happening.

01:04:47 ◼   ► And so I'm thinking I'm being hacked, right,

01:04:50 ◼   ► is what's happening to me.

01:04:51 ◼   ► Someone's trying to get into my Apple ID,

01:04:53 ◼   ► and I don't know what is going on.

01:04:55 ◼   ► And now I'm like, wait an hour.

01:04:57 ◼   ► And at the same time, I'm starting to get tons

01:05:00 ◼   ► of notifications on my watch of things not working, right?

01:05:03 ◼   ► Like, it's just freaking out.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Like, iMessage, all this kind of stuff is going on.

01:05:07 ◼   ► I grab my laptop, all the same errors, right?

01:05:10 ◼   ► Like, iMessage isn't working,

01:05:13 ◼   ► I'm getting errors from my email app,

01:05:16 ◼   ► errors from my calendar,

01:05:17 ◼   ► all of the stuff that's attached to my Apple ID.

01:05:19 ◼   ► But, and I'm also getting the same, like, you know,

01:05:23 ◼   ► your Apple ID has been locked,

01:05:24 ◼   ► unlock your Apple ID thing there.

01:05:27 ◼   ► And because stolen device protection is not on the Mac,

01:05:31 ◼   ► I was able to do this, right?

01:05:33 ◼   ► I was able to go in, reset my Apple ID,

01:05:36 ◼   ► and I had to change my password,

01:05:37 ◼   ► which is not a thing I wanted to do at that point.

01:05:40 ◼   ► So I now have a brand new Apple ID password,

01:05:43 ◼   ► and I didn't have to wait on the device.

01:05:45 ◼   ► This then fixed all the device prompts, right?

01:05:48 ◼   ► So that it stopped then.

01:05:49 ◼   ► And it actually fixed it on my iPhone.

01:05:51 ◼   ► I don't know how this was the case, but it did.

01:05:53 ◼   ► It stopped it.

01:05:54 ◼   ► I guess they're linking together somehow.

01:05:56 ◼   ► And I did, by the way, get like 45 minutes later,

01:06:00 ◼   ► a thing that says, hey, you can change your password now

01:06:02 ◼   ► on my iPhone, but I'd already done it, so I didn't need to.

01:06:05 ◼   ► This then had a couple of knock-on effects.

01:06:09 ◼   ► So some applications like calendar apps, mail apps,

01:06:12 ◼   ► stuff like that, they require app-specific passwords.

01:06:16 ◼   ► And so all of my devices, so two Macs, my iPhone, my iPad,

01:06:21 ◼   ► whatever, they're logged into FantasticOwl and Spark

01:06:23 ◼   ► via this app-specific password thing,

01:06:25 ◼   ► which by the way, Apple, sort that out,

01:06:28 ◼   ► however you have to do it.

01:06:29 ◼   ► I don't care, just find a way to do it.

01:06:31 ◼   ► Like none of my other services need this thing.

01:06:34 ◼   ► You can just log in via some authentication system

01:06:37 ◼   ► or create some kind of version of like a system level thing

01:06:42 ◼   ► that they can take that information from or whatever.

01:06:44 ◼   ► But like, I don't know why I need to do this.

01:06:46 ◼   ► Well, all of those app-specific passwords

01:06:49 ◼   ► have now been deleted because I changed my Apple ID password,

01:06:54 ◼   ► a thing I didn't want to do.

01:06:57 ◼   ► So now all of my devices are not working

01:07:02 ◼   ► with the things that require app-specific passwords.

01:07:05 ◼   ► So like a lot of this stuff,

01:07:06 ◼   ► there are a couple other things too

01:07:07 ◼   ► that I'll mention in a minute.

01:07:09 ◼   ► I hate the kind of errors where there are knock-on effects

01:07:13 ◼   ► that you can't see yet.

01:07:15 ◼   ► I know that there are things that are broken.

01:07:17 ◼   ► I don't know what's broken, but there's stuff that's broken.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Like similarly, I didn't know,

01:07:22 ◼   ► I saw this happen to our friend, James Thompson,

01:07:24 ◼   ► he was posting about it on Mastodon,

01:07:26 ◼   ► saying that if this happened to you,

01:07:28 ◼   ► you have to go in on your devices

01:07:30 ◼   ► and manually re-enable iMessage and FaceTime,

01:07:33 ◼   ► because for some reason this turns them off

01:07:36 ◼   ► and also changes your settings.

01:07:38 ◼   ► So if you're like start new messages

01:07:40 ◼   ► from email or phone number,

01:07:41 ◼   ► it just reverts that to phone number, I think.

01:07:44 ◼   ► But like all my devices were like signed out of iMessage,

01:07:46 ◼   ► so I had to go in and sign them all in.

01:07:48 ◼   ► And so I'm also like,

01:07:51 ◼   ► I couldn't see fitness sharing on my Apple Watch

01:07:54 ◼   ► until I rebooted my Apple Watch.

01:07:55 ◼   ► Like there's all this weird stuff that's now happening.

01:07:58 ◼   ► And I'm very frustrated about it all.

01:08:01 ◼   ► But this was just a very weird thing that happened to me

01:08:04 ◼   ► because it all like kicked off and was made worse

01:08:08 ◼   ► by the fact that I happened to be traveling.

01:08:10 ◼   ► So someone device protection, I think it's a good idea,

01:08:13 ◼   ► unless something happens on Apple's Apple ID servers

01:08:17 ◼   ► randomly and makes you reset your password.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And as I mentioned before, no idea what happened.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Was this a security breach?

01:08:25 ◼   ► Was there some kind of a code deployment issue?

01:08:29 ◼   ► Like unknown, but this is what happened to me

01:08:32 ◼   ► at 6.20 AM on a Saturday morning.

01:08:35 ◼   ► - I think it's interesting that Apple,

01:08:37 ◼   ► like it's not great that Apple has not communicated

01:08:39 ◼   ► to people about this as of this recording.

01:08:42 ◼   ► Like that's a thing where you should have a communication

01:08:45 ◼   ► either via the press or via a direct email

01:08:49 ◼   ► or something to customers who are affected.

01:08:52 ◼   ► I don't need them to contact me directly, really.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Like I think it would be best,

01:08:56 ◼   ► but like it's just surprising to me

01:08:58 ◼   ► that they haven't responded to media inquiries,

01:09:01 ◼   ► it seems like.

01:09:02 ◼   ► - Right, and the status page doesn't say we had this issue.

01:09:05 ◼   ► Now I have one theory about this,

01:09:06 ◼   ► which is this could be a security measure, right?

01:09:09 ◼   ► They could have had an ongoing or an alert

01:09:12 ◼   ► about some sort of a security problem that caused a,

01:09:17 ◼   ► you know, basically led them to do a mass reset,

01:09:21 ◼   ► a mass locking of-

01:09:21 ◼   ► - I feel like if you do that,

01:09:23 ◼   ► you should disclose that, right?

01:09:25 ◼   ► Like that's the thing that you would proactively disclose.

01:09:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:09:30 ◼   ► I mean, again, I could see the argument of like,

01:09:32 ◼   ► if it's an ongoing issue where they're concerned

01:09:34 ◼   ► about something that's still happening

01:09:36 ◼   ► and they don't want, you know,

01:09:37 ◼   ► but once people are talking about it,

01:09:39 ◼   ► it's not like that you could give away what's going on

01:09:43 ◼   ► necessarily by just admitting that there's an issue there.

01:09:45 ◼   ► But the fact that they aren't talking about it at all,

01:09:47 ◼   ► I find that very strange.

01:09:49 ◼   ► And it makes me uncomfortable, right?

01:09:52 ◼   ► Because it actually suggests that maybe

01:09:54 ◼   ► this is a larger problem

01:09:56 ◼   ► that they don't want to admit to right now,

01:09:59 ◼   ► or that they don't understand right now,

01:10:01 ◼   ► where there were some, you know,

01:10:02 ◼   ► some ingress that they don't fully understand

01:10:06 ◼   ► and that this was just like a quick response to that.

01:10:09 ◼   ► But whatever it is,

01:10:10 ◼   ► there should be some disclosure that hasn't happened.

01:10:12 ◼   ► It's too bad.

01:10:13 ◼   ► - So yeah, that's my little story.

01:10:15 ◼   ► It was very strange, very weird.

01:10:17 ◼   ► I was very freaked out and I felt much better

01:10:20 ◼   ► when I'm in a Mastodon and just saw the timeline

01:10:22 ◼   ► of people happening.

01:10:23 ◼   ► And then I told my wife and she was like,

01:10:26 ◼   ► "Oh, so that's why the Apple TV was freaking out last night."

01:10:28 ◼   ► I was like, "Yup, that's why the Apple TV is freaking out."

01:10:31 ◼   ► - Makes sense, makes sense.

01:10:32 ◼   ► - That happened to her too.

01:10:33 ◼   ► She had to do the whole thing that I had to do as well.

01:10:36 ◼   ► So I don't know. - I'm glad

01:10:38 ◼   ► that you got your hiking time in the Lake District,

01:10:40 ◼   ► which is a beautiful place.

01:10:42 ◼   ► I've been to a couple of times, it's great.

01:10:45 ◼   ► And although, did Dave take it easy on you?

01:10:50 ◼   ► - He did, he did.

01:10:51 ◼   ► I'll have more details about this in Upgrade Plus.

01:10:53 ◼   ► He did mention to me, which is good,

01:10:54 ◼   ► let's just be happy that this didn't happen

01:10:56 ◼   ► while we were up a mountain.

01:10:58 ◼   ► - Yeah. - With one bar of reception.

01:11:00 ◼   ► - With one, yeah, mm-hmm.

01:11:01 ◼   ► All right, that's good.

01:11:02 ◼   ► Well, we'll talk about it in Upgrade Plus a little bit.

01:11:04 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm going to Scotland.

01:11:06 ◼   ► - I know you are. - And to islands

01:11:08 ◼   ► where you've got to hike around.

01:11:10 ◼   ► I should probably ask Dave for advice.

01:11:11 ◼   ► - You should ask him, he'll have recommendations for you.

01:11:13 ◼   ► I know that. - Awesome.

01:11:14 ◼   ► I will do that then.

01:11:16 ◼   ► - All right, well, this sucks.

01:11:18 ◼   ► And on top of that,

01:11:20 ◼   ► the fact that Apple hasn't explained anything about it,

01:11:22 ◼   ► that's bad.

01:11:23 ◼   ► - 'Cause yeah, I mean, these things happen

01:11:25 ◼   ► when it's like one person,

01:11:26 ◼   ► weird stuff happens to one person.

01:11:28 ◼   ► This wasn't one of those. - Sure.

01:11:29 ◼   ► We have a mutual friend who is locked out of his account

01:11:34 ◼   ► all the time. - All the time, yeah.

01:11:35 ◼   ► 'Cause someone wants it.

01:11:36 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Probably.

01:11:37 ◼   ► Or something else, he's being grief or whatever.

01:11:39 ◼   ► But like, yeah, these things happen,

01:11:41 ◼   ► but I don't think this was that.

01:11:43 ◼   ► - No.

01:11:44 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by Vitally.

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01:13:05 ◼   ► Let's finish out today with some Ask Upgrade questions.

01:13:09 ◼   ► (mimics air whooshing)

01:13:11 ◼   ► First up today comes from Janis who asks,

01:13:15 ◼   ► "In what area or with what tasks

01:13:17 ◼   ► "would you like AI to help you the most?"

01:13:21 ◼   ► - Whoa.

01:13:22 ◼   ► Oh, wow.

01:13:25 ◼   ► Like, okay, couple of things.

01:13:27 ◼   ► One is I wanna have a voice assistant

01:13:29 ◼   ► that understands context better, is able to do things,

01:13:34 ◼   ► is able to remember what we're talking about

01:13:37 ◼   ► and allows me to correct it

01:13:40 ◼   ► and move it in the right direction.

01:13:42 ◼   ► I think voice assistance is a very clever category

01:13:46 ◼   ► that has never lived up in any voice assistant

01:13:49 ◼   ► to its potential.

01:13:51 ◼   ► I would like to be able to say something complex

01:13:54 ◼   ► to a voice assistant and have it ask me questions

01:13:57 ◼   ► that clarify things it doesn't understand about what I said.

01:14:01 ◼   ► And that just doesn't happen.

01:14:03 ◼   ► So that would be one of them.

01:14:05 ◼   ► And then the other thing is something

01:14:07 ◼   ► that we've talked about here, which is this idea that,

01:14:10 ◼   ► I use the example of Dan Morin looking up facts

01:14:17 ◼   ► about things that happen in his books.

01:14:18 ◼   ► And he's got four books, four or five books

01:14:21 ◼   ► set in the same world.

01:14:23 ◼   ► And he doesn't remember,

01:14:25 ◼   ► I mean, when I've written novels, it's the same thing.

01:14:28 ◼   ► I don't remember every detail about every character

01:14:31 ◼   ► across even one book, let alone five books.

01:14:34 ◼   ► And being able to pour that into an AI

01:14:38 ◼   ► where it has read your books and knows them all

01:14:41 ◼   ► and can hold it in its mind.

01:14:42 ◼   ► So that if you say,

01:14:44 ◼   ► did I ever say what hair color this person was?

01:14:47 ◼   ► Or when did this last person fire a weapon?

01:14:52 ◼   ► And it's something that you can't really search the text for

01:14:55 ◼   ► 'cause there's so many different ways of phrasing that,

01:14:58 ◼   ► but the AI can do that.

01:15:00 ◼   ► Being able to look at my email repository

01:15:04 ◼   ► and give me an answer

01:15:06 ◼   ► so I don't have to try to craft search queries.

01:15:08 ◼   ► And I'm pretty good at crafting search queries,

01:15:11 ◼   ► but I think that I'm an outlier at that.

01:15:15 ◼   ► I'm in the 99th percentile of search query crafting,

01:15:18 ◼   ► and even I get frustrated.

01:15:20 ◼   ► But people who are in the 50th percentile

01:15:22 ◼   ► or the 20th percentile,

01:15:23 ◼   ► imagine the boon to them of saying,

01:15:26 ◼   ► when was the last time I heard from so-and-so?

01:15:28 ◼   ► Or say, I got a text from a friend this weekend

01:15:31 ◼   ► who said it's been 10 years

01:15:33 ◼   ► since we went to a Premier League soccer match.

01:15:37 ◼   ► I can't believe it's been 10 years since that.

01:15:39 ◼   ► It was 2014, but it was great.

01:15:41 ◼   ► It was Fulham and Hull.

01:15:43 ◼   ► Hull was in the Premier League back then, or not now.

01:15:45 ◼   ► And I had that moment where I thought,

01:15:48 ◼   ► this is the sort of thing where you could ask an assistant,

01:15:51 ◼   ► like, when did I go to that soccer match?

01:15:54 ◼   ► And it would be able to look at my text messages,

01:15:56 ◼   ► my emails, and my photo library,

01:15:58 ◼   ► and be like, oh, I've got a photo library item

01:16:01 ◼   ► that was taken at Craven Cottage, the home of Fulham.

01:16:05 ◼   ► It's on this date.

01:16:06 ◼   ► And it might even be able to say,

01:16:08 ◼   ► oh yeah, you went with Matt and Simon to that match.

01:16:10 ◼   ► And it was, here's the final score.

01:16:12 ◼   ► Or I could ask at the final score.

01:16:14 ◼   ► It's all there, but I wanna be able to have it do that work,

01:16:19 ◼   ► researching my own data trove.

01:16:22 ◼   ► I could do it, but why?

01:16:26 ◼   ► The computer should do that for me.

01:16:28 ◼   ► - I'm in complete agreement with you.

01:16:30 ◼   ► And to further talk about what I would want,

01:16:32 ◼   ► I'm gonna go to Eric's question.

01:16:34 ◼   ► Eric, Eric asked, for the new AI features

01:16:37 ◼   ► coming out of the next WWDC,

01:16:39 ◼   ► do you think they'll call it Knowledge Navigator?

01:16:42 ◼   ► I don't, but if you've not,

01:16:45 ◼   ► if you don't know what that means,

01:16:46 ◼   ► or if you have not watched

01:16:48 ◼   ► the Apple Knowledge Navigator video in a while from 1987,

01:16:53 ◼   ► I recommend you do that,

01:16:55 ◼   ► because while this video is kind of hilarious

01:17:00 ◼   ► and incredibly pompous, but I guess it was made in 1987.

01:17:04 ◼   ► It's just like, is what it is.

01:17:06 ◼   ► - By a bunch of white lab coat computer geniuses

01:17:08 ◼   ► who thought that they, I mean, it's one of those.

01:17:10 ◼   ► - This was a, the Knowledge Navigator was a concept idea

01:17:14 ◼   ► that Apple was working out during,

01:17:17 ◼   ► working out during the John Sculley era.

01:17:19 ◼   ► And it is essentially like a foldable iPad,

01:17:22 ◼   ► which is also hilarious.

01:17:24 ◼   ► But the key thing that's going on

01:17:26 ◼   ► is the computer user in his Oak office

01:17:30 ◼   ► is just talking to the computer,

01:17:32 ◼   ► having a conversation with his computer

01:17:36 ◼   ► and asking the computer to retrieve things for him

01:17:38 ◼   ► in very colloquial language, simple language,

01:17:41 ◼   ► like talking to it as if it's a person,

01:17:44 ◼   ► and asking for the computer to do things for him.

01:17:47 ◼   ► Like, since 1987, people have wanted to do this,

01:17:53 ◼   ► and we've not gotten there.

01:17:55 ◼   ► But I believe that large language models are the biggest,

01:17:59 ◼   ► I mean, obviously not unloading this,

01:18:01 ◼   ► but watching this, large language models

01:18:02 ◼   ► are the biggest thing to have happened

01:18:05 ◼   ► that could possibly allow for something like this.

01:18:07 ◼   ► Like a computer's ability to store

01:18:10 ◼   ► an incredible amount of information

01:18:12 ◼   ► and make sense of it all in one go

01:18:14 ◼   ► and keep contacts and have memory.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Like this is something we've not truly had before.

01:18:19 ◼   ► Maybe we're getting closer now,

01:18:21 ◼   ► but I would like some version of this,

01:18:23 ◼   ► that I could have a conversation with my computer

01:18:27 ◼   ► in a way that makes sense in my brain

01:18:30 ◼   ► to be able to extract information.

01:18:32 ◼   ► But like what Jason was saying,

01:18:34 ◼   ► mostly I want it for my own information.

01:18:37 ◼   ► Like anything, anywhere on my computer

01:18:40 ◼   ► to be able to get that for me.

01:18:42 ◼   ► And it doesn't need to be like screen capturing my computer

01:18:45 ◼   ► forever and recording all the video.

01:18:47 ◼   ► Like I don't need that.

01:18:48 ◼   ► But like to be able to, at a moment's note,

01:18:51 ◼   ► just be able to search every task I've ever completed,

01:18:53 ◼   ► every email I've ever sent,

01:18:54 ◼   ► every iMessage I've ever sent,

01:18:56 ◼   ► to check my browser history.

01:18:57 ◼   ► Like all of this stuff that exists on my computer

01:19:00 ◼   ► that is searchable by text by me,

01:19:02 ◼   ► but I have to know where to look

01:19:04 ◼   ► for it to be able to search all of that stuff

01:19:06 ◼   ► and provide that information for me,

01:19:08 ◼   ► along with web searches.

01:19:11 ◼   ► Like that's what I want my computer to be able to do.

01:19:13 ◼   ► I want a knowledge navigator

01:19:15 ◼   ► and I'm hoping that maybe we're going to start getting that

01:19:18 ◼   ► in the next couple of years.

01:19:19 ◼   ► So I've got a weird related thing,

01:19:23 ◼   ► which is just this weekend,

01:19:24 ◼   ► I was having a conversation with John Moltz

01:19:28 ◼   ► about Star Trek as you do.

01:19:34 ◼   ► And John has a T-shirt for sale

01:19:39 ◼   ► that I guess I'll plug here.

01:19:41 ◼   ► So it's a reference to a Star Trek episode

01:19:43 ◼   ► called "The Conscience of the King," original Star Trek.

01:19:45 ◼   ► It's a great episode.

01:19:47 ◼   ► Turns out it was not like they didn't repeat it on NBC

01:19:50 ◼   ► because it's too talky.

01:19:51 ◼   ► That's 'cause it's like, yeah,

01:19:52 ◼   ► it's serious and weighty and not actiony,

01:19:56 ◼   ► but it's a great episode.

01:19:57 ◼   ► And one of the things that happens in it,

01:20:01 ◼   ► I was just struck by it again.

01:20:03 ◼   ► So you said we've been wanting this since the 80s,

01:20:06 ◼   ► how about the 60s?

01:20:07 ◼   ► So here is, there are multiple of these in this episode

01:20:11 ◼   ► and there are in other episodes too,

01:20:12 ◼   ► but I thought this was a great example

01:20:14 ◼   ► where Spock goes to the computer and says,

01:20:17 ◼   ► "Library computer."

01:20:19 ◼   ► Kevin Kirk says, "History file, subject,

01:20:21 ◼   ► former governor Kodos of Tarsus IV,

01:20:23 ◼   ► also known as Kodos the Executioner.

01:20:24 ◼   ► After that, background on actor Anton Kuridian."

01:20:27 ◼   ► And the computer says, "Working, Kodos the Executioner,

01:20:30 ◼   ► summary, governor of Tarsus IV 20 Earth years ago,

01:20:33 ◼   ► invoke Marshall," starts to give the summary.

01:20:35 ◼   ► Literally it's the TLDR.

01:20:37 ◼   ► And then it says, "Case closed,

01:20:39 ◼   ► detailed information follows on star date."

01:20:41 ◼   ► And he goes, "Stop."

01:20:43 ◼   ► Information on Anton Kuridian, gives the background on him.

01:20:46 ◼   ► And then says, "Give comparative identification

01:20:49 ◼   ► between actor Kuridian and governor Kodos.

01:20:51 ◼   ► No identification records available."

01:20:53 ◼   ► The computer says, "Give information on Kuridian

01:20:56 ◼   ► prior to Kodos' death.

01:20:58 ◼   ► No information available on the actor prior to 20 years ago."

01:21:02 ◼   ► And then Kirk says, "Photograph of Kodos."

01:21:04 ◼   ► And then it says, "Photograph of Kuridian."

01:21:05 ◼   ► He says, "Put them side by side."

01:21:07 ◼   ► And it does it.

01:21:08 ◼   ► And it's like, dun, dun, dun, they're the same guy, right?

01:21:12 ◼   ► And I was sitting there thinking, oh my God,

01:21:14 ◼   ► we are still talking about letting computers do this.

01:21:17 ◼   ► Star Trek got it exactly right, which is, you know,

01:21:20 ◼   ► he could be using, Captain Kirk could have his like,

01:21:22 ◼   ► his mouse and his keyboard out.

01:21:23 ◼   ► And he could be like, do do do do, we'll click on that.

01:21:26 ◼   ► And if he needs help, he can get a second person

01:21:28 ◼   ► to type with him on the keyboard.

01:21:29 ◼   ► 'Cause that's what makes that,

01:21:30 ◼   ► that goes faster according to television.

01:21:32 ◼   ► But no, he just talks to the computer

01:21:34 ◼   ► and has it refine its searches.

01:21:36 ◼   ► And it's searching the Interstellar Federation Database

01:21:39 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:21:40 ◼   ► And it's like, so I love that because it's still the dream.

01:21:44 ◼   ► And it should be doable, right?

01:21:47 ◼   ► It's just, how do you get there?

01:21:49 ◼   ► And I think actually, one of the reasons

01:21:51 ◼   ► people are super excited about these LLMs is this,

01:21:55 ◼   ► which is it actually fulfills a promise,

01:21:58 ◼   ► which is give me a system that is not smarter than me

01:22:01 ◼   ► in most ways, but is smarter than me in the fact

01:22:05 ◼   ► that it can hold all of this information in its brain

01:22:08 ◼   ► or find it if it needs to, and then give me back my answer

01:22:12 ◼   ► without me spending five or 10 or 20 or 30 minutes

01:22:15 ◼   ► doing all the research.

01:22:17 ◼   ► And it's just, that's what we're looking for here.

01:22:21 ◼   ► And it just struck me watching an episode of Star Trek

01:22:23 ◼   ► from like 1966, that this is absolutely the dream,

01:22:28 ◼   ► even now, that's literally they're talking to Siri

01:22:31 ◼   ► and Siri is in this case, good.

01:22:33 ◼   ► - So that's what I would love.

01:22:36 ◼   ► That's what we would love.

01:22:37 ◼   ► Give us the things we've wanted forever.

01:22:38 ◼   ► Let's navigate our knowledge.

01:22:40 ◼   ► - You didn't think original Star Trek was gonna happen,

01:22:42 ◼   ► did you?

01:22:43 ◼   ► - I think I'm in no way.

01:22:44 ◼   ► - I mean, it's me, there's always a non-zero chance of it.

01:22:47 ◼   ► - I never don't think it's, when it happens,

01:22:49 ◼   ► I'm not like, whoa, what, Star Trek?

01:22:51 ◼   ► No, I'm always ready.

01:22:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's not the Spanish Inquisition.

01:22:55 ◼   ► I mean, you kind of expect it before it gets here, yeah.

01:22:59 ◼   ► - And Nick asks, do you think the new iPad Pro

01:23:01 ◼   ► will feature a titanium design like the iPhone 15 Pro?

01:23:07 ◼   ► - No.

01:23:08 ◼   ► - I hadn't considered it, but I see it as possible.