00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade. Episode 507 for April 8th 2024. Today's show is brought to you by
00:00:17 ◼ ► Delete Me, Adblock Pro, Fitbud and Vitaly. My name is Mike Hurley and I have the pleasure of being joined by
00:00:33 ◼ ► We're gonna get to that in a little bit but to start off I have a Liss Talk question for you and it comes from
00:00:39 ◼ ► listener Justin. How many Apple Watch bands do you have and how often do you change them?
00:00:44 ◼ ► So I'm gonna bring some interesting energy to the show immediately and tell you, Mike, that I saw
00:00:50 ◼ ► that this was in the show notes document and I thought to myself, "Self, you need to go and look
00:00:55 ◼ ► at how many Apple Watch bands you have so you can answer this question when it's time to record."
00:01:00 ◼ ► And then Michaela has been sick for the last few days and everything has been upside down in
00:01:11 ◼ ► I'm not sure if I should be offended or not but we're just gonna plow forward. So I off the top of
00:01:18 ◼ ► my head, so this is actually a very complicated question because I used to rock the larger size
00:01:24 ◼ ► watch. I believe it was a 42 millimeter if I'm not mistaken at the time. You're the watch person so
00:01:29 ◼ ► you tell me but I think at the time was 42 millimeters and then when it did the switch from
00:01:33 ◼ ► 42 to 44 something broke in my brain and I somehow decided that was just impossibly too large for my
00:01:39 ◼ ► for my little wrist and so whatever year that was, it was several years ago now, I switched and I came
00:01:45 ◼ ► down to what is it 38 millimeters now? I think it used to be 36 now it's 38 something along those
00:01:50 ◼ ► lines and so now Aaron and I are on the same size watch and thus we can share watch bands and that
00:01:56 ◼ ► means although I accrued I would guess between five and ten watch bands over the course of my
00:02:03 ◼ ► 42 millimeter time, I now had access to all of Aaron's watch bands and I was you know since in
00:02:09 ◼ ► the last couple years I've brought some of my own to the party ever you know on the occasions we get
00:02:12 ◼ ► I get a new apple watch whatever the case may be so I would guess all told that of the small size
00:02:19 ◼ ► watch bands which is the ones that are relevant right now because I'm wearing a small size watch
00:02:22 ◼ ► which is the 41 millimeter watch is it no is it yeah used to be 38 but now it's 41 wow I had that
00:02:30 ◼ ► all wrong I'm thankful for that correction so thank you so anyway so of the of those size bands
00:02:36 ◼ ► I would guess we have 10 ish that are almost exclusively sport or sport adjacent bands you
00:02:43 ◼ ► know we don't have like a well I did have a Milanese a knockoff Milanese Milanese whatever
00:02:48 ◼ ► it's called for the big one but like we don't have any of those for the small ones I think Aaron has
00:02:52 ◼ ► one with like a traditional clasp on it you know like the the pokey through the the metal pokey bit
00:02:59 ◼ ► that now I'm not talking the pin on the sport band you know what I'm talking about like the
00:03:02 ◼ ► the rectangle and you have a little pokey bit like on a belt is it an apple one or is it a
00:03:06 ◼ ► no it's enough okay we just call it a class we'll just call it okay there you go but the only time
00:03:12 ◼ ► I generally switch watch bands there's two times I switch watch bands the first time is I really like
00:03:18 ◼ ► the completely featureless just band of silicone or whatever it is silicon thing what do they call
00:03:25 ◼ ► that like the sport something or other where there's no holes in it oh so not the sport band
00:03:38 ◼ ► it's the fluoro elastomer was what the original ones were made made of okay so the solo loop
00:03:43 ◼ ► that's what I was thinking of so I really like the solo loop but in my experience they last
00:03:47 ◼ ► approximately three to six months before I somehow get a cut in them and then they immediately just
00:03:52 ◼ ► give way and so you cut them like the like they break when you they break I've had two or three
00:03:58 ◼ ► and every single one of them is broken which is really a bummer I'm not a fan of that like I don't
00:04:03 ◼ ► like the the idea of like just pulling a piece of like I don't yeah you know like uh they're what
00:04:09 ◼ ► they remind me of is when you go swimming and you have a locker key and it's on a little band that
00:04:15 ◼ ► you have to like put and I don't like that experience I guess yeah I've never never dug
00:04:20 ◼ ► those ones yeah I like them even though I'd like I like on the traditional sport loop which is what
00:04:25 ◼ ► I typically wear I like being able to bring it one notch tighter when I'm actively working out
00:04:29 ◼ ► because I've told myself that helps with like heart rate monitoring that may or may not be true
00:04:33 ◼ ► that's just what I've told myself but in any case so when I get a new watch I will inevitably go
00:04:38 ◼ ► back to the solo loop and then six months later I will regret it and then I will return to my some
00:04:43 ◼ ► flavor of deep-ish blue apple branded uh sport what is this this traditional the standard issue
00:04:50 ◼ ► sport band sport band there you go okay so that's what I'm wearing right now is like a bluish sport
00:04:56 ◼ ► band with you know the the the pin and the holes and whatnot in the smaller of the available sizes
00:05:01 ◼ ► but when it's football season in the fall and by that I mean American football uh we have season
00:05:07 ◼ ► tickets to Aaron's alma my wife's alma mater uh the University of Virginia and so what I'll do is
00:05:13 ◼ ► I'll typically take one half of this blue sport band and one half of an orange sport band because
00:05:21 ◼ ► that's their school colors is blue and orange and I will mix them together if you will so I'll have
00:05:25 ◼ ► an orange and blue setup that I'll put on for that Saturday and then I will take it off on Sunday and
00:05:30 ◼ ► go back to my traditional blue or occasionally I'll wear green that reminds me of do you remember
00:05:34 ◼ ► when apple did the um the Olympic watch bands and they had like bands for every country they were
00:05:42 ◼ ► weird and fun so very cool thank you for that extensive information sorry we're already on a
00:05:48 ◼ ► journey one question I'm putting in the show notes an app called band bright which zach put in the
00:05:54 ◼ ► discord which is like an an iphone app to track your band oh that's very clever uh we've been
00:06:00 ◼ ► I think we spoke about this before I've mentioned before in the uk apple calls them straps not bands
00:06:06 ◼ ► oh interesting because that's what we call that like we call it one strap not a watch band but
00:06:10 ◼ ► like when you go to the apple website it says straps instead of bands my current favorite
00:06:31 ◼ ► I haven't got the alpine loop it's the trail loop I also have the ocean band which I kind of like
00:06:37 ◼ ► but the orange beige trail loop is my current favorite but they get a bit dirty right because
00:06:42 ◼ ► it's like it's like the sport loops uh not sport the sport oh man I'm the yeah the sport loop it's
00:06:49 ◼ ► like that it's that kind of like velcro-y uh feeling you know so they get a little bit dirty
00:07:02 ◼ ► when they announced the fine woven I bought one of the leather ones another one because I used one
00:07:07 ◼ ► on my previous watch and kind of wore it out I love it in blue and now I have this other one
00:07:12 ◼ ► sometimes I change into that one if I want to dress up my apple watch but it's it's it's
00:07:17 ◼ ► difficult to dress up the apple watch ultra in my opinion it was easier to dress up my gold
00:07:21 ◼ ► stainless steel at least I had the gold milanase which I still have but don't have a watch that's
00:07:26 ◼ ► really good to wear it with right I got that also a real-time follow-up I forgot to mention
00:07:30 ◼ ► I have one of the original pride official apple pride bands I think it's like a velcro-y one yeah
00:07:35 ◼ ► and I actually really like that one I haven't had it on in a few months now but I really like that
00:07:39 ◼ ► one and occasionally switch to that one too I forgot about that that's the sport loop and yes
00:07:44 ◼ ► and that's right yeah so it feels similar in construction to the to the trail loop thank you
00:07:50 ◼ ► so much to Justin for sending in that question if you would like to send in a question of your own
00:08:01 ◼ ► welcome back to the show well thank you I'm so pleased to be here so Jason's away he's looking
00:08:07 ◼ ► at the sky today so he's looking at the eclipse you have any interest in the eclipse I do but
00:08:14 ◼ ► Virginia is not terribly close to the path of totality and so I think it's starting like as
00:08:29 ◼ ► you have 10-ish minutes on Snell Talk slash List Talk this may be a four-hour adventure but
00:08:33 ◼ ► nevertheless it should be starting sometime around I think two or three in the afternoon
00:08:39 ◼ ► my time and it's currently shortly after noon as we record so we'll see what happens but yeah I
00:08:44 ◼ ► mean I'm interested in it but it's not if I see it great if I don't I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
00:08:49 ◼ ► weep about it but I wasn't about to go out of my way to do it probably because I've just been very
00:08:54 ◼ ► busy recently and couldn't handle trying to put all that effort together but no I mean it's
00:09:00 ◼ ► certainly fun we had one go through Virginia and I think it was either a total eclipse or darn near
00:09:03 ◼ ► one several years ago now it was probably six seven years ago and that was really cool but and
00:09:09 ◼ ► I prepared you know a pinhole like viewing thing out of an old Tom Bihn box and that was neat but
00:09:15 ◼ ► this time I've done absolutely nothing to prepare other than tell the kids don't look at the sun
00:09:19 ◼ ► perfect that's probably the most important thing to be honest just don't look at the sun kids use
00:09:24 ◼ ► that as just like a general rule since you were on the show last time you have released your
00:09:29 ◼ ► fabulously popular application call sheet can you give the elevator elevator pitch for call sheet
00:09:35 ◼ ► yeah so so call sheet if you're not familiar is an app that lets you look up cast and crew
00:09:42 ◼ ► information and information about tv shows and movies and things like that and it does it super
00:09:47 ◼ ► fast and it's pretty well designed if I'm if I may be so bold as to say so you can get a lot
00:09:52 ◼ ► of information very quickly and it's trying it tries to do well with respecting its users so
00:09:59 ◼ ► there's no pop-ups there's no advertising it is a subscription app although you get 20 searches for
00:10:05 ◼ ► free there's features for preventing spoilers so the canonical example for this no spoilers is that
00:10:12 ◼ ► I was watching the the incredible HBO miniseries Watchmen several years ago and one of the
00:10:18 ◼ ► characters in that show I will not specify which they have dual roles like they have a secret
00:10:24 ◼ ► identity right and I looked at the internet movie database IMDB to see information about these
00:10:30 ◼ ► different actors and actresses and whatnot and I saw you know oh Joe Smith is character A/character
00:10:36 ◼ ► B and I didn't know about the secret identity yet I was very years later I'm very upset by this and
00:10:41 ◼ ► so one of the things that Call Sheet allows you to do for tv shows anyway is that you can say well
00:10:46 ◼ ► I don't want to see character names or I don't want to see how many episodes they're in in case
00:10:50 ◼ ► you know this character is killed off after three episodes or what have you or I don't want to see
00:10:53 ◼ ► the thumbnails for the episodes and things like that and the other nice thing about it is for
00:10:57 ◼ ► things like tv episodes and movies where there's a there's a concrete and discrete release date
00:11:02 ◼ ► in the list of the cast and the crew and whatnot it'll actually show okay well this person was 38
00:11:06 ◼ ► years old when this was released this person was 43 years old and maybe that sounds a little silly
00:11:11 ◼ ► but for me I always am curious as to you know how old actors and actresses and crew are so
00:11:15 ◼ ► yeah that's good I was just doing the thing which I'll be able to tell people about in a couple of
00:11:21 ◼ ► weeks and I was it was helpful for me to be able to see the people in this movie because like just
00:11:28 ◼ ► to see how old they were like I actually found that useful because the movie was on the older
00:11:33 ◼ ► side so that's pretty cool Call Sheet is available wherever you have your Apple platforms right so
00:11:38 ◼ ► it's on the iPhone, iPad, Mac and even on Vision Pro as well which I think is a nice addition if
00:11:44 ◼ ► you have a Vision Pro and you're watching movies and of course there'll be a link in the show notes
00:11:47 ◼ ► so people should go check it out it's one of my favorite apps of the last couple of years
00:11:51 ◼ ► and not just because Casey's my friend it's just a genuinely very good application that I use
00:12:01 ◼ ► well thank you I appreciate it we have some follow-up now you weren't on last week's episode
00:12:06 ◼ ► but I think you'll understand the follow-up anyway so we were talking about leaks so we had the Andrew
00:12:12 ◼ ► Owadade leak story and an anonymous person wrote in to say I just wanted to say that I worked for
00:12:18 ◼ ► Apple in their hardware division for close to eight years and I was reached out to by at least
00:12:23 ◼ ► five reporters in that time and I know a bunch of folks who had the same experience I'd like to
00:12:32 ◼ ► than the other way around not surprised to me no definitely not I well it's not a surprise that
00:12:39 ◼ ► it's flowing that direction and yet at the same time I kind of wonder like what does the reporters
00:12:43 ◼ ► play here like just cruising LinkedIn and trying to find people who list their employers Apple and
00:12:49 ◼ ► just cold calling them or whatever sources right I guess I don't know I don't have the gumption to
00:12:54 ◼ ► do that think about it right if you're if you're at Mark Gorman now right it's all good like you
00:12:59 ◼ ► know what I mean he's getting people coming to him all the time but if you're starting up or you're
00:13:03 ◼ ► like lower in the rock maybe Mark Gorman 10 years ago where did how those connections get built
00:13:09 ◼ ► wasn't there some sort of story I might be making this up but I thought there was a story that one
00:13:13 ◼ ► of his initial sources was like his girlfriend or like his girlfriend's brother or something like
00:13:16 ◼ ► that years ago I don't know if that's true or not you are half remembering a story okay that
00:13:22 ◼ ► I'm not sure if it was a story that was public or it was a story that was just has been shared
00:13:27 ◼ ► around over the years but I'm pretty sure I've heard it on podcast too and I think I've even
00:13:31 ◼ ► mentioned it that a source of his was a sibling of someone who worked at Apple and that person got
00:13:41 ◼ ► fired I see okay that's that is the story as I know it but it could be his say I think that's
00:13:47 ◼ ► what you're remembering yeah I think you're right and either way I mean your point is completely
00:13:51 ◼ ► fair that somehow some way you need to build up this this clientele is not the right word for it
00:13:56 ◼ ► you know this list of sources and I guess cold calling might work I guess if you happen to hit
00:14:01 ◼ ► that disgruntled employee at the right moment but I don't know I'm surprised it's it works enough
00:14:06 ◼ ► that people you know actually execute on it maybe it doesn't work though you know that's fair it's
00:14:11 ◼ ► the thing that people try it doesn't mean it's going to work I think that people that are likely
00:14:16 ◼ ► to want to share this kind of stuff they're probably actively attempting to do that rather
00:14:27 ◼ ► we've been talking a lot about immersive video apple has announced that a new episode of the
00:14:34 ◼ ► Pre-Astonic Planet immersive video series for vision pro will be released on April 19th so
00:14:39 ◼ ► the slow drip feed continues imagine my surprise as I was preparing for the show and I looked in
00:14:45 ◼ ► the show notes and I saw that there's a new episode coming and I said there is yeah well
00:14:48 ◼ ► you've got 11 days to prepare um of all of the the immersive video this is actually an episode
00:14:55 ◼ ► that I couldn't finish I actually I want to go back to it but the the initial shots of this it's
00:15:00 ◼ ► kind of like drone footage going towards an island and it's like movement it's there to make me feel
00:15:04 ◼ ► I think a little bit motion sick which I'd never experienced before uh and so I bailed out of that
00:15:09 ◼ ► but I do want to go back and watch it so maybe I'll check it out another time but you shared
00:15:13 ◼ ► something with me which is yes kind of immersive video it's not from apple although I think apple
00:15:18 ◼ ► was quite heavily involved in this I think just judging by the way some of the things look in the
00:15:23 ◼ ► video and some of the products used in the video but there is a gucci app which features in the
00:15:30 ◼ ► vision pro version an interactive video documentary about gucci's new creative director sabato d'assano
00:15:38 ◼ ► and it shows his first fashion show which I think was in the beginning of last year beginning of
00:15:46 ◼ ► this year I think um it was it's basically a 20 30 minute video showing his first fashion show
00:15:53 ◼ ► but as you're watching the video in like a like a window or a video window things are breaking out
00:16:00 ◼ ► and like taking over an immersive space around you or being in your environment it's really cool and
00:16:06 ◼ ► you can pause the video at certain points and look at the products and look at his sketches
00:16:12 ◼ ► of the collection that he put together this is the kind of stuff that like these little things
00:16:18 ◼ ► come out and you're like oh there you go like that that's that's something right like that that's
00:16:24 ◼ ► what that's one of the reasons to have this thing like it's it's experiences like this one it's very
00:16:29 ◼ ► cool where did you find it so this was emailed to the ATP feedback and by Jason F and they had said
00:16:38 ◼ ► like this is incredible I can't believe nobody's talking about it I had never even heard of it
00:16:42 ◼ ► well it's just in the gucci app you know what I mean so like yeah not not really a thing that
00:16:47 ◼ ► me and you were checking frequently exactly so one way or another I only had the chance to watch the
00:16:53 ◼ ► first five maybe 10 minutes so far and I do plan to watch the rest because it's really what I went
00:16:58 ◼ ► into this it's absolutely worth it it's also just a well-made documentary like it's just a well-made
00:17:03 ◼ ► little documentary it is absolutely worth your time and so like a couple of quick examples from
00:17:07 ◼ ► the first five minutes there's at one point where they're talking about like train tracks I forget
00:17:13 ◼ ► the context but there was some sort of like train or maybe they were doing a photo shoot at a train
00:17:16 ◼ ► or tram or whatever and so you're like Mike had said you know imagine a rectangle where you're
00:17:22 ◼ ► watching this video and then suddenly there's like train or tram or whatever tracks extending out not
00:17:28 ◼ ► from the inside of the of the rectangle like above or behind the rectangle it's like the background
00:17:34 ◼ ► suddenly becomes train tracks or tram or what have you and then this tram car just comes in like a
00:17:39 ◼ ► 3d tram car this is totally outside of your rectangular viewing window it just comes in from
00:17:44 ◼ ► the side of your available you know visual space and just kind of parks for a second and chills and
00:17:49 ◼ ► then there was another part where they were talking about that the fashion show was going to be
00:17:53 ◼ ► in this like era I forget what city it was it doesn't really matter it's an Italian city
00:17:57 ◼ ► oh it was Milan okay thank you so in Milan there's this small corner of Milan there's like this
00:18:02 ◼ ► cobblestone area and it leads up to a church and so there you're looking at this in a standard you
00:18:07 ◼ ► know rectangular viewport and then all of a sudden the the stuff that's going on behind the viewport
00:18:12 ◼ ► instead of your desk or your living room wherever you're watching this it becomes a 3d rendering of
00:18:18 ◼ ► that like street corner if you will and so you see the church right there in front of you and it's
00:18:22 ◼ ► it's not subtle subtle isn't the word I'm looking for but it's it's immersive it's very it's very
00:18:30 ◼ ► immersive and it's not immersive in the sense like the Apple demo stuff is which I love I'm not trying
00:18:34 ◼ ► to you know throw shade on the Apple demo stuff but that the entire experience is immersive and
00:18:39 ◼ ► you can look around and see different things and whatnot it's it's how do you take a regular video
00:18:44 ◼ ► and complement it with VR elements that's right exactly where the video is just the video it's not
00:18:54 ◼ ► it's not altered by the fact that you're wearing it in the vision pro but the environment around
00:18:59 ◼ ► the video screen is enhanced yep this is the kind of stuff where you see it and it's like
00:19:04 ◼ ► these are the things that can be done like these are the things that somebody you see these little
00:19:10 ◼ ► breadcrumbs and like you understand how early we are in it like I gotta say I'm I find it
00:19:19 ◼ ► frustrating that people are saying that the vision pro is dead like yeah agreed it's too soon it's
00:19:27 ◼ ► way too soon and I think that we need these are the types of experiences that will exist and we're
00:19:33 ◼ ► going to talk about another one later on in the episode where they become these little green shoots
00:19:38 ◼ ► that can become something bigger in a few years time which I in my opinion was the whole point
00:19:45 ◼ ► of this in the first place and we're getting there and like to me this was another example of this of
00:19:51 ◼ ► like oh this isn't an immersive video it's not a regular video I'm not watching this video inside
00:19:56 ◼ ► of a movie theater environment I'm watching this video and then all of a sudden I'm being delighted
00:20:01 ◼ ► and surprised by these things that are popping up and then for something like a Gucci runway show
00:20:07 ◼ ► the fact that I can look at like AR versions of the products and move them around make them bigger
00:20:15 ◼ ► and smaller and take a look at the bags and the shoes and the jewelry like that's fantastic for
00:20:20 ◼ ► Gucci right because now I can experience that be like oh that fashion show was beautiful these
00:20:24 ◼ ► clothes are amazing let me look at this bag so I think it's a very if you have a vision pro take
00:20:30 ◼ ► the 20 minutes and watch this it's also just one of those things which I love of the story of a
00:20:34 ◼ ► creative person and how they overcome challenges to produce something it's really cool yeah yeah
00:20:40 ◼ ► again I only saw the first five maybe 10 minutes and it was 100% worth your time and like Mike was
00:20:44 ◼ ► saying I like that it's kind of like two and a half d in that the video is the video it's a
00:20:50 ◼ ► regular 2d video Mike has said it a couple times I'll reiterate that but everything is happening
00:20:53 ◼ ► around it it's like you know salt beige sprinkled a little like 3d on top of a regular or immersion
00:20:58 ◼ ► I guess is a better way to put it on top of a regular 2d video it's very very clever and very
00:21:05 ◼ ► very well done and I could not care less about fashion it is not my thing do not care and I was
00:21:11 ◼ ► riveted in the five or ten minutes I was watching this it is definitely worth your time
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00:24:03 ◼ ► everybody's favorite segment it is dma today are you excited to be a part of dma today today casey
00:24:09 ◼ ► i am overjoyed to be a part of dma today today today will be a great day to do dma today
00:24:14 ◼ ► the verge has published a first look at alt store which is planning to be one of the first
00:24:19 ◼ ► alternative app marketplaces in europe it's a really good piece um i have a couple of tidbits
00:24:25 ◼ ► that i wanted to pull out of this article but i recommend reading it so one with alt store apps
00:24:30 ◼ ► can monetize via patreon and offer the app as a puck and you can link the two together two things
00:24:36 ◼ ► that are interesting about this one there are other ways to pay for things who knew it's patreon
00:24:43 ◼ ► but also with patreon but if you tie the app to a pledge you can limit the amount of people that
00:24:50 ◼ ► can claim that pledge so therefore oh yes i see okay yeah yeah yeah you as the developer could
00:24:57 ◼ ► get out of the core technology fee however the alternative app marketplaces how they're going
00:25:05 ◼ ► to pay for their core technology fee like that is different apps are doing it in different ways
00:25:10 ◼ ► because if you're at marketplace you have to pay the core technology fee no matter what some uh are
00:25:15 ◼ ► passing that on in the form of a subscription to the developers alt store as a publishing cycle
00:25:21 ◼ ► haven't announced that that's being done but you as the developer still don't have to pay it until
00:25:25 ◼ ► you hit that million threshold where you could set the tier there and then maybe have a more expensive
00:25:31 ◼ ► tier for the one after that if you hit that right so it gives you that flexibility in your business
00:25:37 ◼ ► and the sense that you couldn't the app couldn't just explode overnight because you're able to cap
00:25:41 ◼ ► it so that's cool apps in alt store as well do things that other ios apps cannot do for example
00:25:50 ◼ ► there is an app that is shown off called clip which is a clipboard manager clip stays awake in
00:25:56 ◼ ► the background using the mapkit apis so this is something that app store apps can't do because
00:26:02 ◼ ► you can't use the mapkit api for this apple will reject you so and what happens is if you copy a
00:26:08 ◼ ► piece of if you like select some text and press copy you get a push notification immediately it's
00:26:12 ◼ ► like hey do you want to save that and you can just interact with the notification and save so it's
00:26:17 ◼ ► like a true clipboard manager we have a little bit of a weird workaround but the fun thing about this
00:26:23 ◼ ► is the mapkit solution was the solution that notarization approved after some back and forth
00:26:29 ◼ ► no but like so it's existing right this is a a feature an app store app would be rejected for
00:26:37 ◼ ► but it's in alt store having gone through notarization like the original method whatever
00:26:43 ◼ ► it was for staying awake in the background apple said you can't do that via notarization because
00:26:49 ◼ ► it was like a misuse of an api but they allowed the mapkit use so interesting times of course the
00:26:57 ◼ ► delta emulator for nintendo games old nintendo systems is in alt store that's the ryletester
00:27:04 ◼ ► who created delta also created and is running um alt store so obviously that would be in there
00:27:11 ◼ ► do you have anything you'd like to mention about alt store before i move on to the other emulator
00:27:15 ◼ ► piece of news uh just briefly i i don't run emulation software often but on occasion i'll
00:27:25 ◼ ► have a reason to bust out an old video game from my childhood and i cannot tell you how delightful
00:27:31 ◼ ► it is to use like open emu on the mac and run mega man 2 which decalin was i don't remember oh no
00:27:38 ◼ ► decalin was playing smash brothers that's what it was my nine-year-old son was playing smash
00:27:42 ◼ ► brothers and was asking about who mega man was and i was like oh buddy buckle up so he can talk
00:27:47 ◼ ► about this and so we ran upstairs to uh to my mac and i opened up mega man 2 which i spent just hours
00:27:54 ◼ ► upon when i was roughly his age just hours and hours and hours on mega man 2 and being able to
00:27:59 ◼ ► run old software in an emulator like that is so delightful particularly when you have a controller
00:28:03 ◼ ► like i have the uh the 8-bit do 8-bit do i forget how you pronounce anyways the the one the sn30
00:28:09 ◼ ► pro that looks like a super nintendo controller and i have that and i hooked it up to my mac and
00:28:13 ◼ ► it was delightful even though this is an nes game still having a super nintendo controller was great
00:28:17 ◼ ► it's so much better than using a keyboard and being able to do that on my phone or even perhaps
00:28:22 ◼ ► more so my ipad which although i guess the alternative stores are not coming to ipad is
00:28:27 ◼ ► that right well i mean they're also not coming to you well yeah fair yeah that's that's a very good
00:28:33 ◼ ► point but in principle uh just being able to hook a controller up to my phone you know because delta
00:28:38 ◼ ► allows this like to take that jump that's one of the things that delta would allow you to do
00:28:42 ◼ ► and being able to play like an old nes or super nintendo game on my phone like i don't think i
00:28:46 ◼ ► would have the occasion to do it often but being able to do it would be super cool this hardware
00:28:50 ◼ ► is so good like why wouldn't you want to or at least be able to do that if you saw it it would
00:28:55 ◼ ► be very fun great news for you casey list because yes it might not just be delta is the way to do
00:29:01 ◼ ► this so apple is does publish yet another update to the app store guidelines one of them being
00:29:14 ◼ ► noting that quote you are responsible for all such software offered in your app including ensuring
00:29:21 ◼ ► that such software complies with these guidelines and all applicable laws this is a worldwide
00:29:28 ◼ ► immediate change that allows for emulators yeah so in theory i mean i haven't seen uh riley talk
00:29:37 ◼ ► about this yet but in theory i don't see any reason why you couldn't have delta on the regular
00:29:43 ◼ ► traditional worldwide app store right or am i missing something yeah in in theory unless riley
00:29:48 ◼ ► is doing things with delta that would otherwise be outside of what's allowed right so like he may be
00:29:56 ◼ ► as you can see using apis that might not otherwise be available to a developer but in theory now
00:30:06 ◼ ► we will start to see emulators appear on the app store um and there's going to be a lot of them
00:30:30 ◼ ► so like i'm really keen to see how this is going to go because like what is a retro game console
00:30:36 ◼ ► like that's not defined yeah is the nintendo switch retro depends on who you ask is the 3ds
00:30:53 ◼ ► lore of this fascinating but i look forward to playing pokemon i guess or something like
00:31:01 ◼ ► i'll have any opportunity to play pokemon on my iphone this is incredible and i think you're right
00:31:07 ◼ ► that the the ownership side of the software is where this will get very very interesting both in
00:31:13 ◼ ► the good and not so good ways so to back up you made mention a minute ago of roms so the way this
00:31:18 ◼ ► works for emulators is they typically do not provide any games to play they the emulator is
00:31:24 ◼ ► the software that allows you to play a game but you need to bring the game yourself and so you
00:31:29 ◼ ► need to you know take a game cartridge and use a piece of hardware to download all of the bits on
00:31:36 ◼ ► that game cartridge and that's the rom the read-only memory from the cartridge and then you
00:31:40 ◼ ► put that in a file and you upload that file to your computer or to your phone or what have you
00:31:44 ◼ ► and then you can play the game i have a thing for the game boy that can do this exactly and as with
00:31:49 ◼ ► all things you know there are alternative approaches which we do not condone here at upgrade but
00:31:53 ◼ ► nevertheless that's the question is like you know what is apple going to allow for this you know
00:31:58 ◼ ► how is a how is riley a delta supposed to verify effectively that you have the cartridge for the
00:32:12 ◼ ► don't care but like they're they're just going to be like oh that's your responsibility so basically
00:32:17 ◼ ► oh yeah no i mean basically what this is is like they've just like i think i've seen a lot of
00:32:23 ◼ ► people say this i think it's true it's like i guess maybe they're fearful of the competition
00:32:29 ◼ ► here or something like i i guess right so like they figure that something like delta is enough
00:32:36 ◼ ► for people in europe to want to install alt store oh heck yeah put it on the app allow these on the
00:32:41 ◼ ► app store and then people will get them from the app store but it's for me i see this as a you know
00:32:47 ◼ ► they wrote it in there it's in the yo you said that you will comply with laws so when nintendo
00:32:52 ◼ ► comes to us we're just going to send them directly to you like that's the way this is going to go
00:32:56 ◼ ► so it's going to be fascinating to see how this plays out i have yet to find an emulator in the
00:33:04 ◼ ► app store it is a bit soon um but i am really keen to see who's first and how does this shake out a
00:33:12 ◼ ► part of me is surprised that somebody like riley who granted is very busy right now but somebody
00:33:17 ◼ ► wasn't waiting on the wings like ready to submit to there's no way anybody thought this was gonna
00:33:22 ◼ ► happen well but that's exactly what i was gonna say is that on the one side like how could you
00:33:25 ◼ ► not be ready for this but on the other side you know there are there are hotter places in the
00:33:30 ◼ ► world that would have frozen over before i would have expected this to happen right like i didn't
00:33:34 ◼ ► think in a million years this would happen and i i think this is absolutely indication that what the
00:33:40 ◼ ► eu is doing it looks like it's working because i think you're right i think at least some of this
00:33:45 ◼ ► is trying to get ahead of alt store and trying to make sure that apple's users don't have any
00:33:50 ◼ ► particular justification for looking outside the app store and hey turns out it sounds like a lot
00:33:55 ◼ ► of people would love to run old games on their phones so maybe we should allow for that imagine
00:34:01 ◼ ► that apple what a just fascinating it is a hard thing to allow though like it is a it's not even
00:34:06 ◼ ► really a legal gray area in some instances like it's a legal gray area or many but in some it's
00:34:12 ◼ ► just like no you just this is bad because like where did i draw the line like we just had all
00:34:16 ◼ ► this stuff with uh nintendo killing the user emulator which was for the switch which i think
00:34:23 ◼ ► is a bit aggressive uh and i i'm not surprised and i don't really personally i don't really have
00:34:29 ◼ ► a problem with nintendo going after that one but when you go back to something like the game boy
00:34:35 ◼ ► it's like all right like you know you're not gonna lose out on money here like make the games
00:34:40 ◼ ► available like you can do your thing so i don't know uh they also made a change in europe that
00:34:46 ◼ ► music streaming services can have a buy button to sign up for the service it takes you to a web page
00:34:51 ◼ ► to learn more and sign up what a novel concept what imagine that imagine just in europe this
00:34:58 ◼ ► one though because we all know that non-europeans cannot deal with buy buttons in their applications
00:35:02 ◼ ► yep we are too stupid mike we cannot handle it i'm so thankful i'm so thankful that i am not lost on
00:35:09 ◼ ► when i'm using the spotify app it's just if this i don't want to go off i don't want to pop off like
00:35:14 ◼ ► i've been doing so often on atp about how ridiculous and entitled apple is and so i will
00:35:19 ◼ ► just say that i am glad that there's at least some amount of forward progress even if it seems to be
00:35:24 ◼ ► by by way of the prod rather than you know the cattle prod rather than the the carrot if you
00:35:28 ◼ ► will i think i'm mixing metaphors here but um it turns out like i said a minute ago it looks like
00:35:32 ◼ ► this has worked like the system is working they are forcing apple to make changes that they
00:35:37 ◼ ► wouldn't or didn't appear to be willing to make otherwise and you know what i am here for it yep
00:35:44 ◼ ► it's time for a rumor roundup yeehaw nine to five mac has found evidence in ipad os 17.5 in the beta
00:35:52 ◼ ► that the next apple pencil may feature a squeeze gesture this is a quote from nine to five mac
00:35:57 ◼ ► the gesture can be used for quick interactions such as adding shapes signatures stickers or
00:36:02 ◼ ► a text field presumably the gesture will be triggered by pressing the apple pencil surface
00:36:07 ◼ ► that's very interesting i don't i don't know how i would feel about a squeeze gesture i'm sure once
00:36:12 ◼ ► i tried it i'd be like oh yes of course oh yeah yeah that's pro right yes yeah it's that oh yeah
00:36:18 ◼ ► i guess that's fair point yeah but i just use that for playpond i mean what would i i don't know well
00:36:22 ◼ ► i mean just read but you're not drawing of your air pods but you know i could imagine there'd be
00:36:26 ◼ ► an application and you'd set it and it's like some i don't know some frequent thing that you're doing
00:36:32 ◼ ► inside of said application like it could be undo and procreate or change into you know between two
00:36:39 ◼ ► tools or something like that i would prefer button a button and squeezing but we'll see and we may be
00:36:45 ◼ ► seeing soon because mark well not as soon as we thought though mark german is reporting now that
00:36:50 ◼ ► the new ipads are due to be announced on may 6th which is a month away from now which is kind of
00:36:55 ◼ ► funny because we've been expecting these new ipads for at least a month uh something got lost a year
00:37:01 ◼ ► well i mean we've wanted them for that amount of time sure yeah it's just like a funny scenario
00:37:07 ◼ ► that we've ended up in where we were all convinced that these ipads were coming out in early march
00:37:11 ◼ ► and they're actually now looking like they will arrive in early may yeah and i thought i'd read
00:37:17 ◼ ► somewhere i don't know if we'll be able to put a link in the show notes or not but i feel like
00:37:20 ◼ ► i read somewhere that they were having really bad yield problems with the oled displays or something
00:37:24 ◼ ► along those lines since that might have something to do with it marcus also said that there are
00:37:28 ◼ ► software issues so it's a bit it's a kind of six of one half thousand of the other with right
00:37:34 ◼ ► right stuff but yes this is coming out later than expected but you know as people say kc it's not
00:37:40 ◼ ► delayed if they haven't announced it that's true that is true mark german is also reporting that
00:37:45 ◼ ► apple is now exploring home robotics now that the car project is over in the search for the next big
00:37:53 ◼ ► thing this is what they're going to start pursuing i'm going to read some quotes this is this piece
00:37:58 ◼ ► is just like full of interesting quotes so i'm just going to read them out we can talk about it
00:38:01 ◼ ► engineers at apple have been exploring a mobile robot that can follow users around their homes
00:38:07 ◼ ► the original concept for the robot was the device that could navigate entirely on its own about human
00:38:11 ◼ ► intervention and serve as a video conferencing tool one pie in the sky idea was having it to
00:38:17 ◼ ► be able to handle chores like cleaning dishes in a sink but that would require overcoming
00:38:22 ◼ ► extraordinarily difficult engineering challenges something that's unlikely this decade apple has
00:38:28 ◼ ► developed an advanced tabletop home device that uses robotics to move a display around this idea
00:38:34 ◼ ► was to have the display mimic the head movements of a call such as nodding of a person on a facetime
00:38:40 ◼ ► session it's it would also feature the it also have features to precisely lock onto a single
00:38:46 ◼ ► person among a crowd during a video call the robotics work is happening within apple's hardware
00:38:52 ◼ ► engineering division and it's ai and machine learning group run by jean gianandrea matt
00:38:57 ◼ ► costello and brian lynch two executives focused on home products have overseen the hardware
00:39:01 ◼ ► development this is interesting i on the surface it makes sense kind of because you know in this
00:39:08 ◼ ► world with the car you need to have incredible spatial awareness and in a house you would also
00:39:13 ◼ ► need some good spatial awareness but it is a pretty big leap from one to the other i'm not
00:39:18 ◼ ► sure they're really related and just in the sense of like they were working on a car now they've
00:39:23 ◼ ► given up on that and now they're working on something else fair and the other thing is like
00:39:28 ◼ ► what would i want a house robot to do with by following me around like the only thing i can
00:39:34 ◼ ► think of is remember and i think you used one of these at wool once i thought it was you that was
00:39:38 ◼ ► there we had a call using one that's what i'm talking about i forget the term the the telepresence
00:39:43 ◼ ► robot there you go that's the that's the generics uh the generic term but yeah it's these robots you
00:39:48 ◼ ► could you know wander around a office building or what have you and they basically have like an ipad
00:39:52 ◼ ► or equivalent on on the at about eye level actually and so you could sort of kind of carry
00:39:57 ◼ ► on a conversation with a co-worker even though the co-worker is hundreds of miles away or whatever
00:40:02 ◼ ► and that was neat and i saw a handful of offices try it and it seemed like none of them stuck with
00:40:08 ◼ ► it and i don't know if that's because the thing was never charged or because it was too difficult
00:40:12 ◼ ► to use or latency was too bad or whatever but i don't i can't think of any reason why i would
00:40:16 ◼ ► want a robot following me around the house you know it's not like that and i've just talked about
00:40:20 ◼ ► this in atp and i forget the name of it but there's those robots that will follow you around
00:40:23 ◼ ► in a city and they're like a backpack but you don't carry it it's just this little like segue
00:40:27 ◼ ► style thing that's following a you know a meter or two behind you and that in principle actually
00:40:33 ◼ ► sounds pretty appealing but that's when you're out of the house and it's also like seven thousand
00:40:37 ◼ ► dollars or something like that so look you know think about what they're saying would be the pie
00:40:41 ◼ ► in the sky wouldn't you love something to do house chores for you i mean i suppose yeah imagine a
00:40:46 ◼ ► roomba but that can do everything right but it's too big this is too big of a thing to even consider
00:40:52 ◼ ► which i think they're getting at right like this is a and i think people can take some of these
00:40:57 ◼ ► reports as being like a gospel thing but no like there was an idea that somebody had of like the
00:41:03 ◼ ► real goal for a project like this is create a multi-purpose home robot but they know they're
00:41:10 ◼ ► not going to be able to do that for a very long time if ever yeah but inside of this piece is the
00:41:16 ◼ ► real thing that they seem to be working on i hope that they're working on which is a tabletop home
00:41:21 ◼ ► device that can move a display around like this is the advanced echo show like device from apple
00:41:28 ◼ ► the home pod with a screen which apparently this product is quote much further along but there is
00:41:33 ◼ ► disagreement inside of the company of wherever it's something people would want something i would want
00:41:38 ◼ ► as an we have an echo show in the house and i don't like it but my wife does but it's nice to
00:41:43 ◼ ► have a screen in the house where it's showing photos from a photo library but we can also talk
00:41:49 ◼ ► to it you can you know when you're cooking you can see the timers on it you can interact with
00:41:54 ◼ ► like amazon's made a great business of this i would love apple to do one of these and if it
00:41:58 ◼ ► could do things like i could have a facetime call with someone and it will follow me around and all
00:42:03 ◼ ► that kind of stuff it sounds fantastic but i also would love apple to build me a robot that could do
00:42:09 ◼ ► all of my chores but i i genuinely i'm not sure if we'll see that in my lifetime yeah agreed and
00:42:16 ◼ ► with regard to the echo show style thing that's not something i feel like i want in my life but i
00:42:20 ◼ ► but let me you know hedge by saying i've never had an echo show or anything equivalent so it may be
00:42:26 ◼ ► one of those things that once i had it in my life i'd go oh yes of course um but you know the closest
00:42:37 ◼ ► facetime with my mom and dad when they were at their house and you know we were at ours of course
00:42:42 ◼ ► and i just stuck my phone on the mantle below the tv and it was fine like it really wasn't bad the
00:42:47 ◼ ► audio allegedly on their end wasn't bad because that's the thing i worry about our family room
00:42:52 ◼ ► is very very wide and not very deep so we're physically relatively close to the tv which helps
00:42:57 ◼ ► a lot for the purposes of audio but when you do a facetime call with an apple tv the audio is the
00:43:01 ◼ ► camera microphone on your phone right and so sometimes in a in a room that's deeper and not as
00:43:06 ◼ ► wide you can sound like you're 400 miles away from the microphone because you kind of are luckily our
00:43:12 ◼ ► house is laid out in such a way that that's not really a problem uh but that sort of thing is
00:43:16 ◼ ► where i feel like we're missing something in our you know the list family is missing something is
00:43:19 ◼ ► having the ability to do a group facetime call on a big screen and what with continuity camera and
00:43:24 ◼ ► in the the apple tv support and more recent versions of the apple tv os then that seems
00:43:31 ◼ ► to be fixed for us so i don't personally have a need for this but again i can't stress enough
00:43:37 ◼ ► that it might be one of those things that i get it in the house and i'm like oh yes of course how
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00:45:52 ◼ ► show and relay fm so a couple of days ago uh i incessantly bullied you into getting onto a
00:46:04 ◼ ► facetime call with me that is both accurate and inaccurate but it is probably more accurate than
00:46:08 ◼ ► i care to admit to myself yes because uh spatial personas have launched so this is an an advanced
00:46:15 ◼ ► persona feature for facetime calls with the vision pro so previously you would have a call with
00:46:20 ◼ ► somebody and they would be trapped inside of a little box but at wwdc when they showed off the
00:46:26 ◼ ► vision pro initially they gave a tease for the next evolution of personas where people would be
00:46:32 ◼ ► essentially like floating heads and hands inside of inside of your space with you but that apple
00:46:39 ◼ ► touted at the time that it was a much more immersive experience now you were going to be my
00:46:43 ◼ ► co-host on the show today i wanted to talk about it and i wanted you to come onto the show having
00:46:46 ◼ ► had this experience and i wanted you to have this experience with me and so by this point i had had
00:46:52 ◼ ► a call with a couple of friends solo and then also a group hangout session this was your first
00:46:59 ◼ ► experience with spatial personas what did you think so the thing with the vision pro is that
00:47:08 ◼ ► there's so much potential there and it's so obvious that the technology is just phenomenal
00:47:14 ◼ ► it's big it's clunky it's heavy but it's still it's there it's there much more so than you would
00:47:18 ◼ ► expect but it's hard to convince yourself of that sometimes even even as someone who can spend as
00:47:23 ◼ ► much time as i want with the vision pro because you know so there's so few examples of it being
00:47:29 ◼ ► there and the immersive video we were talking about earlier is a great example this gucci thing
00:47:34 ◼ ► is silly as it makes it may sound i think that's an example and i've done a facetime call or two
00:47:39 ◼ ► with the vision pro previously and it was fine and after you know five or ten minutes you can kind of
00:47:44 ◼ ► get over the fact that you're looking at a cartoon version of your friend or whatever but it was fine
00:47:48 ◼ ► the spatial personas are a whole different thing and it is a great example of what makes the vision
00:47:55 ◼ ► pro so freaking cool and what makes you feel like yep we're there this is it it's not the future
00:48:02 ◼ ► it's not the future in the future it's the future today and it was bananas it's incredible i did this
00:48:10 ◼ ► in my office in the same room i'm sitting in right now i did this without any air pods in or anything
00:48:14 ◼ ► like that i was just using the audio pods whatever they call the thing you know the stems on the
00:48:18 ◼ ► vision pro and the the way that it felt like you were around me was phenomenal because if you were
00:48:27 ◼ ► off to my left you sounded like and looked like you were off to my left if you're off to my right
00:48:31 ◼ ► and you sounded like and looked like you were off to my right and what really blew my mind which is
00:48:36 ◼ ► funny because i think at this point i had heard connected if i'm not mistaken and so i was aware
00:48:41 ◼ ► of most of these things and so i knew what to expect and yet you know we were sitting or we were
00:48:47 ◼ ► i guess we were adjacent to each other i forget exactly what the scenario was one way or another
00:48:50 ◼ ► i was looking at you even if i don't remember if i was looking at you head on or if you were off to
00:48:54 ◼ ► my side but one way or another you said okay i'm gonna stand up now and sure enough when you stood
00:48:59 ◼ ► up your head went from eye level to a couple of feet above me which is what would happen if we
00:49:06 ◼ ► were sitting next to each other yeah and also it creates a shared physical space so i can walk
00:49:10 ◼ ► around you yeah yeah i mean your space and i'm moving around so like and there are things that
00:49:17 ◼ ► you can do which are wild like you can have somebody follow your finger with their eyes and
00:49:21 ◼ ► you can watch them do that like the latency and the realness of this is it's honestly like a
00:49:30 ◼ ► technological marvel here's the thing if you've seen pictures of this and i'll put links in the
00:49:35 ◼ ► show notes to jason's article about this and steven's article about this which has a bunch
00:49:38 ◼ ► of pictures of these calls that i was on too they look ridiculous right it is a floating head
00:49:44 ◼ ► floating hands it looks ridiculous but it doesn't feel like that when you're in it there is something
00:49:49 ◼ ► about just the head and the hands and the shoulders but when they're moving and they're
00:49:53 ◼ ► talking and you can see someone promoting it is just the amount that you need for your brain to
00:49:59 ◼ ► be tricked that you're in the room with the person it's like just enough and you know you've heard
00:50:03 ◼ ► of these kinds of things before like the bare minimum that your brain needs to be able to make
00:50:09 ◼ ► these kinds of jumps like these leaps this 100% does it it's the most immersive vr call i've ever
00:50:16 ◼ ► experienced and i've tried a bunch of these things because not only does it work really well i'm
00:50:22 ◼ ► looking at the person i'm talking to and it looks like them a lot like them because the new personas
00:50:27 ◼ ► got even better like truly it looks weird trust me i know it looks weird but if you experience it
00:50:36 ◼ ► it is like um it's unbelievably good like it's unbelievably good and it pulls in so many different
00:50:43 ◼ ► technologies spatial audio is key as casey was talking about if i stand up i'm high in my you
00:50:49 ◼ ► know i'm i'm he can here i'm above him if i move around him he can experience that share play
00:50:55 ◼ ► you can share windows content all this kind of stuff together like i did this with you we
00:51:00 ◼ ► shared a freeform board i could get up and walk towards the board and point to things on the board
00:51:05 ◼ ► like a presentation obviously you could do keynote and stuff in this and then there are also like i
00:51:10 ◼ ► think the best way to experience this well actually before you jump to that though hold on the the the
00:51:16 ◼ ► the uh freeform thing blew my mind because again i had heard connected i knew what to expect but yet
00:51:23 ◼ ► you shared a freeform board potentially even the same one you shared with them and you and what we
00:51:28 ◼ ► went from looking at each other sitting you know one facing the other to now we are adjacent to
00:51:34 ◼ ► each other one on either side of the board which is what you would expect to happen if you were in
00:51:38 ◼ ► a space with a whiteboard right and you can like you just said you can point to something and i can
00:51:43 ◼ ► point to something we can tell what the other is doing like i know mike just said that but i really
00:51:48 ◼ ► need to hammer that home because it you would expect there to be like inaccuracies or horrible
00:51:53 ◼ ► latency or something but no no it was spot on i forget exactly what was on the board you know
00:51:58 ◼ ► i was i said something like okay point to the red rectangle and sure enough you pointed to it and
00:52:03 ◼ ► you know and i said okay what am i pointing at and you said oh you're pointing to the same red
00:52:06 ◼ ► rectangle the other side of it yep yes i am like it was it's so silly to be so impressed by this if
00:52:12 ◼ ► you think about it like and if you look at these pictures like mike had been saying it's like okay
00:52:15 ◼ ► this looks super weird why are you so excited no i can't even begin to describe it is just
00:52:21 ◼ ► stupefying the difference that all of this makes especially in aggregate like it's clear that your
00:52:28 ◼ ► mike wasn't physically standing next to me like that's obviously not the case but it tickled all
00:52:34 ◼ ► of the same kinds of emotions you know what i mean like it it felt effectively like you were and it
00:52:40 ◼ ► was almost as satisfying as us having a brainstorming session i mean even though it was all
00:52:44 ◼ ► you know contrived but it was almost as satisfying as us having a brainstorming session in a room
00:52:48 ◼ ► together and given that you're what like three thousand two thousand miles away from me this is
00:52:52 ◼ ► a lot easier and cheaper to do with it meeting up somewhere to do it in person like last week i felt
00:52:58 ◼ ► like i was able to hang out with a bunch of my friends over these different calls it was a very
00:53:04 ◼ ► enriching experience for me because it was able to tickle a lot of those sensations that you get
00:53:14 ◼ ► for having spent time with people because you're talking to them you feel like you're in a place
00:53:20 ◼ ► with them you very quickly ignore the weird part of it and accept it for what it is or think it's
00:53:27 ◼ ► more than what it is you're able to look into the eyes of your friends as they're talking to you
00:53:32 ◼ ► and like you're actually looking into their eyes and they're looking into your eyes the amount of
00:53:37 ◼ ► work that must have gone into this i cannot fathom like i genuinely think like if you have a friend
00:53:44 ◼ ► that has a vision pro and you've been on the fence or whatever this is a reason to buy one if you can
00:53:48 ◼ ► if you want to have these experiences together because so one of the things that we did was we
00:53:53 ◼ ► played a game called game room which i think is the perfect demo for this oh it's it's phenomenal it
00:53:58 ◼ ► i cannot stress enough you must try this they have a version of they have a bunch of different games
00:54:04 ◼ ► inside a game room one of them is essentially battleship and the two of us were able to play
00:54:10 ◼ ► a game about ship it's a very well done application just in general like the animations are fantastic
00:54:16 ◼ ► it's it's very well designed fast and fun but like you're able to play actual games together like i
00:54:22 ◼ ► really really hope that more games do this it's all built on shareplay so it's just a shareplay
00:54:28 ◼ ► game um i'm hoping that more of this kind of stuff exists because i i want to create like hangouts
00:54:37 ◼ ► for friends like the the the group call that i did it was basically just there was an active
00:54:43 ◼ ► facetime calling kind of inside of a group chat so people were able to drop in and drop out
00:54:47 ◼ ► because that's how face time group chats work that's so there were at one point there was three
00:54:53 ◼ ► of us then there was four of us then there was five of us and you know people were dropping in
00:54:57 ◼ ► and dropping out like yep so you could imagine like uh just a friend hangout session and you know
00:55:03 ◼ ► you can hang out you can chat but having activities like shared activities to do and games being one
00:55:09 ◼ ► of them like man this is what i was saying earlier on in the show like it is way too soon to be like
00:55:17 ◼ ► oh this platform's dead it's not going anywhere like there's no developers for it da da da da da
00:55:23 ◼ ► obviously i was listening to atp last week and i would say the three of you to to an element were
00:55:30 ◼ ► like you know talking about the death of the platform already and but it's not just you guys
00:55:37 ◼ ► like i'm hearing it all over the place i'm seeing it on mastadon like it's too soon i would love to
00:55:42 ◼ ► know how we would deal with the iphone now that's interesting yeah yeah if the iphone was now
00:55:52 ◼ ► what would we be saying like we're in the first year of the iphone and there's no apps for it
00:55:57 ◼ ► right like what would what would the conversations be like i just think that like if you see things
00:56:03 ◼ ► like this like the spatial persona stuff to say that they are not putting effort into this
00:56:09 ◼ ► platform like i can't even imagine how hard this was to build like this is clearly what they wanted
00:56:16 ◼ ► it to launch with right but couldn't get it ready in time because there's no reason that you would do
00:56:21 ◼ ► the first version of this right like if you had the second version ready like it was very clear
00:56:27 ◼ ► now that this first version is just the they did it until they could stop to finish yeah a stop gap
00:56:33 ◼ ► and like it's it's truly mind-blowing it's i hate to use this word but it's true it's a transformative
00:56:40 ◼ ► experience of using technology like this because you know i'm hearing time and time and time again
00:56:46 ◼ ► from you and from everybody else like the vision pro is a uh anti-social product right like you
00:56:53 ◼ ► can't use it with people around you and i'm not saying that this changes that but it makes it
00:56:58 ◼ ► social in a different way yeah i was just about to say it's differently social and you're exactly
00:57:03 ◼ ► right in the same way that i mean your iphone and your ipad is an anti-social device too
00:57:07 ◼ ► but we say it's a social device because you can talk to your friends who are across the ocean
00:57:13 ◼ ► right so like oh it's additive to my life because i'm connected to people this is an even stronger
00:57:18 ◼ ► connection so it's just you know like i've heard i was listening to atp this morning so it's fresh
00:57:26 ◼ ► in my mind and you were talking about the fact of how like you wouldn't sit on the couch next to
00:57:29 ◼ ► aaron um you know you would wear one of these and she's watching avatar on the tv and you're watching
00:57:35 ◼ ► it yeah right right you also wouldn't watch avatar on your phone while she's watching it on
00:57:39 ◼ ► the tv that's fair that is fair yeah people are i think a lot of time at creating these scenarios
00:57:44 ◼ ► that sound ridiculous because they are ridiculous like you wouldn't do that you also wouldn't have
00:57:49 ◼ ► four people wearing or wearing one in the same way that like you wouldn't have four people all
00:57:54 ◼ ► looking at an ipad like these devices will fit into our lives in different ways for some people
00:58:00 ◼ ► they won't fit into their lives at all and that's totally fine right like there's going to be a
00:58:05 ◼ ► balance here for what this kind of technology can provide and what it can't but this is like oh
00:58:12 ◼ ► here's here's the thing you can't do the only way you can do this is a vision pro you cannot have
00:58:18 ◼ ► this experience with any other apple product because a facetime that ain't it son like this is
00:58:26 ◼ ► so much better than a facetime call so much better than a facetime call for so many reasons
00:58:33 ◼ ► as long as your mouth moves of course mine does well that was that was very off-putting because
00:58:37 ◼ ► it's still quite fixed uh you're mad i'll get there i'm sure if they look if they can work
00:58:41 ◼ ► this out they can get the mouth movement issue with mustaches fixed but the only obvious answer
00:58:46 ◼ ► is you just need to trim your beard and mustache back a lot that's the that's the one true way
00:58:51 ◼ ► i'm not doing that for like you know what i mean of like if that's their answer then then they're
00:58:56 ◼ ► then i'll say the platform is dead you know what i mean yeah no it's your criticisms of atp i think
00:59:02 ◼ ► are fair and it's funny what a difference just a few days makes because i i to a degree i stand by
00:59:09 ◼ ► what i was saying on hb and i would think of the three of us i was far and away the most positive
00:59:12 ◼ ► but i was still kind of poo-pooing the whole thing and it's funny because at the time i was thinking
00:59:17 ◼ ► all right well they haven't come up like apple hasn't come out with any of the new immersive
00:59:20 ◼ ► videos yet i didn't realize that the um the dinosaur thing was forthcoming yeah but still
00:59:26 ◼ ► it's one episode it's not like that's still not good enough like not even close and the soccer
00:59:30 ◼ ► thing as has been talked about ad nauseam was not great by any means and i'm looking at this and i'm
00:59:36 ◼ ► like well what's what's the point like i still like it but i think i said on the show were it
00:59:41 ◼ ► not for professional obligations i think i wouldn't have bought it and i don't think i would have
00:59:45 ◼ ► missed it well fast forward what is this like five days later six days later and i've experienced uh
00:59:50 ◼ ► spatial personas in in facetime i've experienced collaborating not necessarily in a professional
00:59:56 ◼ ► sense but even like in a gaming sense collaborating on something i've experienced this gucci app which
01:00:01 ◼ ► is silly as it is really is mind-blowing like it's such a clever way of approaching this this
01:00:07 ◼ ► not problem but you know this task of presenting a documentary in an interesting way like in just
01:00:13 ◼ ► in the past less than a week i feel like the stock of the vision pro is going quite a bit up in my
01:00:19 ◼ ► mind because i'm starting to be to see new and interesting ways to use it and this comes back
01:00:24 ◼ ► to what you've been saying this entire episode well more than this episode but especially this
01:00:27 ◼ ► episode it is too darn soon to throw this thing out it is too darn soon to say it's a dead platform
01:00:33 ◼ ► walking because it isn't we haven't had the time for people to really start flexing their muscles
01:00:38 ◼ ► and being creative and seeing what they can do and we're getting bits and pieces of it here and like
01:00:43 ◼ ► i i am looking forward to having the time to put on the vision pro and doing the what is the name
01:00:50 ◼ ► of the app game room the game room app which i don't know if you said this out loud but it's in
01:00:53 ◼ ► apple arcade so if you're an apple one or whatever it's called member uh you get this quote unquote
01:00:58 ◼ ► for free i can't wait to try it again and i showed i recorded a little bit of video of the two of us
01:01:05 ◼ ► playing and i showed the family and everyone was looking at this and even though they don't really
01:01:11 ◼ ► know what like they've had the vision pro on but they they didn't experience playing the game and
01:01:15 ◼ ► all of them were still like oh that's real cool you know like and of course deklyn my nine-year-old
01:01:20 ◼ ► was like oh i want to try that as soon as i can and and he hasn't had the chance yet but you know
01:01:24 ◼ ► it's it's so immediately captivating and another thing i don't think you mentioned this yet but
01:01:29 ◼ ► another thing you did and i didn't even realize you could do this is you can share your perspective
01:01:33 ◼ ► oh yeah and so um i had seen many many many photos of mega office but i have never been to mega
01:01:40 ◼ ► office i've never been sorry thank you my apologies mega studio and so i'd never been there and that's
01:01:47 ◼ ► why i didn't know the right name of it but anyway i i you know mike said to me it's at some point
01:01:51 ◼ ► all right hold on a minute watch this and now i'm getting a 3d view of mega studio which was amazing
01:01:56 ◼ ► and i mean again i've seen photos so i could i kind of had a layout in my mind of what it looked like
01:02:02 ◼ ► but in the span of like you doing one 360 degree spin well now i know exactly what mega studio
01:02:07 ◼ ► looks like you know what i mean and and similarly like i mean my office is a disaster despite what
01:02:11 ◼ ► hopefully it looks like on the video but you know i took you on a quick spin around my office which
01:02:15 ◼ ► is not exciting at all but nevertheless at least now you get to have a mental model for where it is
01:02:20 ◼ ► i'm sitting right now talking to you and like stuff like that is super cool and if memory serves that
01:02:25 ◼ ► was in 3d like it was immersed well it wasn't immersive i don't think it was in 3d no it's just
01:02:29 ◼ ► like is it not okay you just get to see kind of like a video feed i was so bowled over by it i may
01:02:36 ◼ ► as well have been 3d you're probably right it probably wasn't but it felt like it at the time
01:02:41 ◼ ► and so it's it's it's incredibly incredibly cool what they've done with with just facetime broadly
01:02:47 ◼ ► because this you know seeing what mike's seeing doesn't really have anything to do with spatial
01:02:51 ◼ ► personas that's just i guess share play if nothing else but my goodness was it cool and it enables
01:02:57 ◼ ► you to kind of have a presence somewhere else and you know 3d or 2d one way or another it it was so
01:03:03 ◼ ► immersive in the figurative sense because i couldn't you know change where i was looking
01:03:07 ◼ ► or anything because i'm just getting the view from mike's you know headset but it still felt so
01:03:12 ◼ ► you know lowercase i immersive if you will that that it felt like i was there and it was unreal
01:03:19 ◼ ► like this this is phenomenal and if you're in a position like let's say you were you know having
01:03:25 ◼ ► have a long distance relationship or something like that oh my god fathom oh my god yeah are
01:03:30 ◼ ► you kidding like it would it would it would be this alone just facetime spatial personas alone
01:03:37 ◼ ► if you have the money one thousand percent worth the seven thousand dollars you know for each of
01:03:41 ◼ ► you to get one get the crappiest vision pro you can which is not still extremely expensive but
01:03:46 ◼ ► like look here's the thing none of this is is is achievable right now but this is like you know
01:03:52 ◼ ► i mean like what we're talking about you know if you're in a long distance relationship do you have
01:03:58 ◼ ► seven thousand dollars to spend like it's that is ridiculous to say yeah but in four years time
01:04:06 ◼ ► in five years time where i genuinely think that in five years time we will have like full bodies
01:04:11 ◼ ► because they'll be able to just work out even if they can't scan it so you would have a full body
01:04:16 ◼ ► in it or like much more of a body maybe at least the top half right because they can just
01:04:20 ◼ ► work it out i mean this is kind of what meta does right then they're looking at where your
01:04:24 ◼ ► hands are and then assuming the way the rest of your body moves it's all machine learning
01:04:29 ◼ ► models at the end of the day but like if this thing is fifteen hundred dollars then you could
01:04:33 ◼ ► each have one i mean yeah then then we're off to the races because it's the beginning now this
01:04:39 ◼ ► product has been available for three months and look at the progress we've made in three months
01:04:45 ◼ ► yeah no it's it's unreal i it's the thing that bothers me about all this the thing that i'm so
01:04:52 ◼ ► frustrated by with regard to all this is that i don't have the vocabulary or the the the the
01:04:58 ◼ ► way with words to appropriately verbalize what this feels like and i think you and i have done
01:05:04 ◼ ► as best a job as we possibly can but it's one of those you really just do need to experience it and
01:05:09 ◼ ► like i said i cannot stress enough i know i've said it like two or three times but i heard
01:05:12 ◼ ► connected i saw the photos in these blog posts i knew what to expect and still my mind was blown
01:05:21 ◼ ► when mike and i got on this got on this facetime call together it's unbelievable and it's again one
01:05:26 ◼ ► of those things where the sum is greater than the whole or the the greater the the sum is greater
01:05:31 ◼ ► than the parts are great some are greater than the parts the sum of the parts is greater than the
01:05:35 ◼ ► whole who knows yeah yeah yeah you know that's what they say but you know what i mean like it's
01:05:43 ◼ ► like the spatial persona was super cool the freeform thing super cool the game room thing
01:05:48 ◼ ► super cool yeah but all together like all of this was mind-blowing i put it together what have you
01:05:54 ◼ ► got bibbidi-bobbidi-boo you know what i'm saying you know what i'm saying when i quote mary poppins
01:06:00 ◼ ► oh i do you know that's not very problems is it that's uh cinderella isn't it yeah it doesn't
01:06:05 ◼ ► matter when i quote mary poppins quoting cinderella as she does in the movie and everyone remembers it
01:06:10 ◼ ► exactly right that's like the michael scott thing right like wednesday the gwen greske coat and
01:06:16 ◼ ► then michael scott underneath that's me right now i know what you're thinking of yeah yeah no it's
01:06:20 ◼ ► it's really incredible if you have it if you're lucky enough to have a vision pro you must find
01:06:23 ◼ ► someone to do this with you you and i should like do cameo style things where we'll schedule 10
01:06:28 ◼ ► minutes doing this with people who don't have any other vision pro friends well we can make
01:06:37 ◼ ► i could be convinced i'm just saying i could be convinced all right stop me before this gets even
01:06:42 ◼ ► worse what is something else we can talk about this episode is brought to you by fitbud when you
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01:08:46 ◼ ► our thanks to fitbud for their support of this show and relay fm so last time you were on the show
01:08:52 ◼ ► which was episode 448 which was back in february of 2023 it's been about a year and a bit i created
01:09:01 ◼ ► a new segment called the casey list vibe check and i would like to to reinstate the segment today so
01:09:08 ◼ ► this may become a thing that you just do every time you're on the show with me because jason is
01:09:12 ◼ ► clearly now willing to take weeks off which it only took us nine years before he was willing to
01:09:18 ◼ ► do it and a celestial event in this case yeah well last time he went to new zealand and i was like
01:09:23 ◼ ► this is untenable just take some time off so what we're going to do is i have 10 words or phrases
01:09:30 ◼ ► you don't know what they are i'm going to say these to you you give me the first word or small
01:09:36 ◼ ► phrase that comes into your head and then we may go back and dig into some of these that are
01:09:43 ◼ ► particularly interesting to me so i have my list here and i want you to tell me what you think all
01:09:48 ◼ ► right okay are you ready now i did not go back and listen to the last one because it occurred to me
01:09:53 ◼ ► you might repeat some and i don't want to like in my cell and so i i was planning to go back and
01:09:59 ◼ ► listen just remind myself how this went and i remember being a little dodgy on my part so i
01:10:03 ◼ ► wanted to re-listen but then i decided no we're just going to roll with it we're going to see what
01:10:07 ◼ ► happens because i don't want to like you know taint my opinions here so i have no idea what's
01:10:12 ◼ ► coming because we i do have a couple of repeat vibes to check all right first one ai everywhere
01:10:30 ◼ ► a lot it's a lot alternative app marketplaces uh non-starter oled ipad pro neat m3 ultra
01:10:57 ◼ ► i think that's my answer okay that's not what i need for now vision or less uh i want to see
01:11:06 ◼ ► what's coming apple tv plus uh impressive actually and mac pro uh please no all right obviously the
01:11:18 ◼ ► mac pro we all know uh you're a co-host especially john we'll talk about it forever um it you know
01:11:24 ◼ ► again it's always funny to me to try it's always funny to me first to remember that he's still
01:11:29 ◼ ► using that mac pro i know i know and then for what what's it gonna take you know like that's that's
01:11:36 ◼ ► the way it's like a funny thing for me to think about um so digging into a couple of these so ai
01:11:41 ◼ ► is actually the one that i was most interested in to see where where you're at do you use any ai
01:11:46 ◼ ► tools it's one of those things where it's it's not um how can i phrase this i i need ai to figure out
01:11:55 ◼ ► what i need to verbalize this so i don't ever immediately jump to ai it's like oh i'm having a
01:12:01 ◼ ► something i need done well ai will fix it i i'm not at that point by any means oftentimes though
01:12:07 ◼ ► especially you know when it comes to code related things i'll flail around for how to do something
01:12:13 ◼ ► and realize i just can't figure this out quickly and i've gotten better over the last year or so
01:12:18 ◼ ► since you know chat gpt has really hit i've gotten better at thinking to myself oh you know what
01:12:24 ◼ ► i wonder if i could ask chat gpt this and i bet i will either get a good answer or an answer that
01:12:29 ◼ ► will you know push me in the right direction and i've gotten better and better at that but it's
01:12:34 ◼ ► still not the sort of thing where i i have to get there by desperation if that makes sense like
01:12:45 ◼ ► chat gpt's credit oftentimes it does get me across the finish line one way or another either by way
01:12:49 ◼ ► of inspiration or by an actual solution so i am using it some so you're using actual chat gpt for
01:12:55 ◼ ► the code questions you know using something specific to code correct that's correct do you
01:12:59 ◼ ► have you ever tried the github stuff or microsoft no i know i know of what you speak but i haven't
01:13:04 ◼ ► tried any of it now so you would just go to chat gpt i assume the free version that's right and
01:13:10 ◼ ► describe my issue and say you know how do you fix it and do you find it gives you good answers
01:13:16 ◼ ► uh in on some occasions it will give me literally the answer you know there was a there was an
01:13:21 ◼ ► instance where i wanted to create an enumeration which is basically like you know you have a bunch
01:13:27 ◼ ► of different options in code and and you will only ever be one of them um and so i wanted to create
01:13:34 ◼ ► an enumeration based off of some other piece of data so i had a list of like 20 or 30 things and
01:13:39 ◼ ► i wanted a code enumeration based off of those 20 different things i could do this by hand it's not
01:13:44 ◼ ► conceptually difficult to do it's just a pain right it's a bunch of rote work and so i said
01:13:49 ◼ ► to chat gpt hey i have this i think it was a json object i have this json object and i would like
01:13:54 ◼ ► um i would like an enum an enumeration based on this can you do that for me and i think i had to
01:14:00 ◼ ► phrase it differently one or two or three times but then once i got it phrased appropriately it
01:14:05 ◼ ► was good to go and so i saved myself a whole bunch of time not just you know mashing on the
01:14:09 ◼ ► keyboard doing the same thing over and over again by spending two minutes in chat gpt and so that
01:14:14 ◼ ► that's a great example of it on occasion if i have a weird ffmpeg incantation where i'm trying to
01:14:17 ◼ ► convert a video from one format to another i'll turn to chat gpt to do it so yeah it's definitely
01:14:22 ◼ ► given me reasonable answers occasionally you know completely on its own without me having to like
01:14:27 ◼ ► you know triple check or anything like that okay i i mean i have two main uses at the moment um
01:14:34 ◼ ► one is to help me rewrite stuff uh and i use a combo depending on the tool that i'm in if i'm
01:14:40 ◼ ► in notion i use notions ai to do it if i'm uh doing something that i'm just putting into a
01:14:46 ◼ ► random text box sometimes i'll just use chat gpt um but my the thing i'm most excited about right
01:14:51 ◼ ► now is the service called perplexity and i've not heard of this it's a service where like they
01:14:57 ◼ ► combine a bunch of different models together and have their own stuff that you sprinkle on top
01:15:01 ◼ ► i'm using it in replacement of trying to do 50 google searches to get an answer for something
01:15:10 ◼ ► so that's what it's really good at so we're going to disneyland paris later on this year
01:15:16 ◼ ► and we're trying to find some restaurants to book now as a disneyland fan or disney wild fan sorry
01:15:24 ◼ ► thank you thank you you know the issue of trying to search for anything disney related it is just
01:15:30 ◼ ► seo garbage website off the seo garbage website right and what i like about these tools is they
01:15:38 ◼ ► will just read every website and find the things that correlate between them to give you the answers
01:15:44 ◼ ► you're looking for like for searches like this it's like so good at wrangling in the seo destroyed
01:15:50 ◼ ► web of course the problem is these tools will also create more of this job garbage content but i'm
01:15:57 ◼ ► trying to live in that perfect moment where i can get the answers that i want without you know stuff
01:16:03 ◼ ► happening also like also with comics like a similar thing i'm trying to pick up some like i've
01:16:08 ◼ ► basically read all of the spider-man comics i could possibly read or would want to read and so
01:16:12 ◼ ► i want to turn my attention to some different titles like i want to maybe read some daredevil
01:16:17 ◼ ► comics or some x-men comics and i ask it like give me some suggestions and i i went with these tools
01:16:24 ◼ ► like to try and get the most out of them i'll always give their pro versions a try at least for
01:16:34 ◼ ► so like they understand the question it's like do you want good stories for an origin story
01:16:42 ◼ ► do you want good stories that are short do you want good stories that are a long period of time
01:16:47 ◼ ► that have some classic moments in and then i can select just tap which ones i want then it goes out
01:16:52 ◼ ► creates a list for me then you can also collect up your answers into these little collections like
01:16:57 ◼ ► i'm a bit i'm pretty high on this this service right now because i just like it like it kind
01:17:01 ◼ ► of sounds like i'm doing an ad for them like i actually think i would like them to sponsor the
01:17:05 ◼ ► show now um so perplexity if you're out there just you know send me an email but yeah it's a service
01:17:11 ◼ ► that i really like so it's just a treat um why do you think alternative app marketplaces are a non-starter
01:17:18 ◼ ► it's too much work and nobody's going i mean not literally nobody of course there are people who
01:17:22 ◼ ► will care but i think it's as much work as you think it is i i mean i think it was it's a lot of
01:17:28 ◼ ► work for the developers yes that's true that is not what i was referring to for the record
01:17:33 ◼ ► yes i was referring to what you think you just go to a website tap a button tap install like it's
01:17:37 ◼ ► it's not that wild if i recall correctly the verge said you needed to like go to the website and then
01:17:42 ◼ ► you needed to like effectively introduce your phone to the fact that this marketplace exists
01:17:46 ◼ ► then you need to go into like settings and say to your phone yes i'm aware it exists yes i would like
01:17:50 ◼ ► to use it then you got to go back to the website then you got to install the app marketplace and
01:17:53 ◼ ► all this jazz and like it's not it's not an obscene amount of work but i think it's enough
01:17:59 ◼ ► that until we get something oh yeah you're right i was what i was thinking of is how easy it is
01:18:04 ◼ ► to install apps from the app marketplaces yes to actually install the marketplace itself you have
01:18:09 ◼ ► to like jump through a bunch of hoops which i would be surprised if all those hoops will still
01:18:13 ◼ ► exist in a year from now that's also very very fair that is a very good point but sitting here
01:18:17 ◼ ► today as what we know now i just don't think your average person is going to jump through these hoops
01:18:22 ◼ ► and like there needs to be some justification for it um as an example when the iphone first came out
01:18:29 ◼ ► i remember there was an app and i can't remember the name of the app it was like i tether or
01:18:34 ◼ ► something like that i forget exactly what it was but basically what it allowed you to do was tether
01:18:39 ◼ ► to your phone and i forget if it was like a socks proxy or something like that or if it just enabled
01:18:43 ◼ ► something in ios or at that point iphone os but one way or another it was a way to let your your
01:18:49 ◼ ► phone tether even if your carrier didn't give you permission to do so and it required a jailbreak
01:18:54 ◼ ► and i remember i desperately wanted to be able to tether and i don't remember the the reason why and
01:19:00 ◼ ► i ended up only doing it a handful of times but i jail broke my phone in no small part it was like
01:19:04 ◼ ► this and whatever it was where you could drag down from the top of the screen there were a bunch of
01:19:07 ◼ ► widgets do you remember that do you know what i'm thinking of there was like you know like wi-fi on
01:19:11 ◼ ► and off and like volume and all that and those two things were enough to make me jump through all the
01:19:16 ◼ ► hoops of jailbreaking now i'm not trying to say that jailbreaking is the same as an alternative
01:19:20 ◼ ► app marketplace but it's spiritually yeah no it is it absolutely is but it's spiritually in the
01:19:25 ◼ ► same direction and so i don't i i can see the argument that it is for a particular type of
01:19:30 ◼ ► person and that particular type of person is likely to jump through those hoops the thing that
01:19:35 ◼ ► i wonder about is like is there a breakout app that can exist that we're saying the same thing
01:19:40 ◼ ► that's exactly it is that you know it is delta enough and maybe maybe delta is full it's all
01:19:45 ◼ ► take or fortnight is actually that's an even that's a much much better example is fortnight
01:19:50 ◼ ► enough and if and that i could absolutely see well what we know today where fortnight isn't
01:19:57 ◼ ► yet in an alternative app store they've said it will be but it hasn't yet knowing what we know
01:20:01 ◼ ► today i stand by it's a non-starter but i 100 agree there can and honestly likely will be some
01:20:08 ◼ ► sort of app that pushes people over the edge to deal with jumping through all these hoops
01:20:17 ◼ ► mostly because i'm just sad that i'm missing out again or at least sitting here now that's
01:20:29 ◼ ► denied a developer pass have you been what they said no yeah yeah yeah they went out uh right
01:20:34 ◼ ► before we recorded uh atp last week so it was thursday i i know they send an email if you get
01:20:39 ◼ ► in i didn't know if they sent an email to yes did not get in yeah i i mean i can dig it up if you
01:20:44 ◼ ► give me a minute but it's nice to say they're like hey we're sorry in the past they have sent these
01:20:47 ◼ ► out like they've sent out some afterwards but i don't know if they're like yeah that and i think
01:20:53 ◼ ► that is possible and you know there it is plausible that i would get a press pass but certainly you
01:20:58 ◼ ► know the history indicates that that is unlikely there was one year i want to say it was 22 maybe
01:21:04 ◼ ► it was 21 but i think it was 22 um there was one year i was off your press pass but it was before
01:21:08 ◼ ► mikaela was my youngest kid was vaccinated and i didn't want to mess with traveling across the
01:21:12 ◼ ► country it was 22 it was when like we all found out like two days before or something it wasn't
01:21:17 ◼ ► that right but it was like we weren't even it was there was going to be a developer event and then
01:21:21 ◼ ► all of a sudden it got bigger um and a bunch of people were invited yeah and so i did get a an
01:21:27 ◼ ► invite then which i declined when it absolutely murdered me to do so but i stand by it and so i
01:21:33 ◼ ► never no other time ever ever ever ever ever since i'd been going to wwdc in 2011 which admittedly
01:21:38 ◼ ► was before anyone knew who the heck i was i've never been offered a press pass to it i don't
01:21:42 ◼ ► expect to this year but i i would love to be able to go at some point to see apple park to see it
01:21:48 ◼ ► what it's like at apple park etc etc but yeah i mean i'm not i'm i've not been offered and that
01:21:54 ◼ ► was my initial gut reaction is to be selfish to be honest with you but more broadly if i'm allowed a
01:21:58 ◼ ► second uh a second opinion on it i am excited for it actually i'm excited for all of this you know
01:22:04 ◼ ► ai stuff there's enough smoke around here that there's got to be a fire i'm excited to see what
01:22:08 ◼ ► ai really means in apple's context i'm super excited to see what vision os 2.0 looks like
01:22:14 ◼ ► uh because you know at this point we have a point we don't have we need at least one more point to
01:22:18 ◼ ► make a line and i really want to see where this this inevitable line is going to be reaching for
01:22:25 ◼ ► i'm trying not to use the word point again so in what direction is this line going yeah i'm pretty
01:22:30 ◼ ► excited for for wwbc the potential of it this year like yeah in for these reasons of like is vision
01:22:36 ◼ ► os 2 going to be exciting or is it going to be disappointing like i hope it's going to be
01:22:40 ◼ ► but obviously the star of the show this year i thought it might originally i thought the star
01:22:46 ◼ ► of the show would be vision os 2 but that was before uh ai reared its head and apple was talking
01:22:52 ◼ ► about it and saying they have stuff coming and you know we obviously have heard things now we've seen
01:22:57 ◼ ► reports and so it's intriguing to wonder what it's going to look like um and is it going to be
01:23:05 ◼ ► like a whole new way of thinking about using our iphones like potentially or at least will
01:23:13 ◼ ► developers have brand new tools to create new experiences they couldn't before so i'm i'm
01:23:18 ◼ ► pretty excited for wwbc but you know similar to you i i don't i'm pretty sure i'm not going to be
01:23:24 ◼ ► attending this year and i've got some stuff going on in the summer and i don't think i'm going to be
01:23:28 ◼ ► able to make it work so that will be a shame but i'm excited about the announcements that could come
01:23:34 ◼ ► yeah before we move on from wbc very briefly i've been thinking this is not an original thought of
01:23:40 ◼ ► mine in fact i think around the same time i had this epiphany i want to say it was on mac stories
01:23:45 ◼ ► that uh john or federico was talking about it but i really am getting the vibe based on zero facts
01:23:52 ◼ ► just the vibe that we're going to see some sort of visual refresh for ios this year and it's going to
01:23:57 ◼ ► look very similar to vision os and i have no facts to back this up maybe i just get this vibe that
01:24:03 ◼ ► that's going to happen and i'm very curious to see if we do get some sort of visual refresh on the
01:24:07 ◼ ► ios side how does that make you feel as an app developer as a developer i am not looking forward
01:24:13 ◼ ► to it is it made easier by the fact that you use swift ui i think it is and because you'll get some
01:24:19 ◼ ► stuff for free in theory in theory especially since i generally stick pretty close to the way
01:24:25 ◼ ► things look stock i mean obviously i tweak here and there but i'm generally i don't go too off the
01:24:30 ◼ ► wall with it i think what makes me dread it even less though is having gone through the vision
01:24:35 ◼ ► vision os native port because it's not very hard at all to get an ipad app to work in vision os in
01:24:40 ◼ ► fact it's pretty darn straightforward but to to take a an app that has an ipad version but make a
01:24:47 ◼ ► native vision os version you can flip that switch reasonably easily and just comment out a bunch of
01:24:54 ◼ ► stuff that doesn't that isn't applicable in vision os as an example like you can't change the icon
01:24:58 ◼ ► right now of a vision os app and so you just got to comment all that out but in order to make a
01:25:03 ◼ ► vision os app that feels good on the platform which i like to think the call sheet does a
01:25:07 ◼ ► pretty good job of that's a fair bit of work and it took me a long time to really understand what
01:25:12 ◼ ► work needed to go where now that i've been through it though i feel better about it and so i don't
01:25:17 ◼ ► i'm not nearly as miserable as i would be if i'd never done that effort but uh as a developer i'm
01:25:22 ◼ ► kind of about it but as a user i like the look of vision of vision os i think it looks good i think
01:25:27 ◼ ► it looks modern i like that there's affordances for buttons even if it takes you you know looking
01:25:31 ◼ ► at them first but at least there's affordances you know so i like it from a user perspective
01:25:35 ◼ ► i think it would be kind of nice but from a developer perspective why don't you want the
01:25:39 ◼ ► m3 ultra is that like for yourself or just to exist because that means mac pro in theory
01:25:46 ◼ ► max studio it will also go in the studio no no it's it's that was again me being completely selfish
01:25:52 ◼ ► about mac pro related discussions because my co-hosts on atp especially john as you mentioned
01:25:56 ◼ ► are obsessed with mac pro are very disappointed in the current mac pro and so the m3 ultra is to
01:26:02 ◼ ► me i associate that almost exclusively with the mac pro even though you are 100 correct and it's
01:26:07 ◼ ► really more about the max studio i would argue more about the studio but but to me it's a lot
01:26:13 ◼ ► about the mac pro like if they had something above ultra like maybe that like because there was the
01:26:17 ◼ ► rumors of the extreme the extreme for a while like that that might be a mac pro only thing but i would
01:26:23 ◼ ► be really surprised if they made anything just for the mac pro because like that thing is hanging on
01:26:29 ◼ ► by a tether like it really is but i mean that being said the m3 ultra is interesting and
01:26:33 ◼ ► especially since it seems like all of the m3 uh generation chips they they appear to all be bespoke
01:26:40 ◼ ► rather than kind of different cuts both in a literal and figurative sense of other chips in
01:26:44 ◼ ► the lineup you know the m1 and the m2 it seemed like they had a building block and they just
01:26:48 ◼ ► combined it or you know or doubled it in different and interesting ways whereas what we've seen of
01:26:54 ◼ ► the m3 dies is that they're more you know bespoke and each m3 is is just tweaked a little bit to be
01:27:01 ◼ ► that one and only one thing honestly i think the apple silicon story so far especially when it
01:27:07 ◼ ► comes to the mac we have been wrong in assuming that it was going to form a pattern yeah that's
01:27:14 ◼ ► true i mean it did for the first two years but then now we've gone way off it well i would i
01:27:18 ◼ ► don't know if it did like they were doing weird things and like the we're assuming a certain type
01:27:22 ◼ ► of power gain and it wasn't necessarily there like i and again like one is not a pattern right
01:27:30 ◼ ► yeah yeah so i don't know i'm i'm intrigued about it because that's the computer i want next is an
01:27:38 ◼ ► ah ultra max studio which i'm sure will be incredible and in that sense i very much want
01:27:43 ◼ ► this to happen i would love to see what this looks like and so in that sense unselfishly
01:27:48 ◼ ► so here for it but selfishly i really don't want to hear the boys whining about it for a while
01:27:53 ◼ ► yeah i i just you know i'm using an m1 max macbook pro as the machine that i do my recording on and
01:28:02 ◼ ► stuff and really for me with the the reason i want to get the the studio and i want it with an m3 i
01:28:09 ◼ ► don't even think ultra like an m3 pro would would would be fine for me yeah i want inbuilt io
01:28:17 ◼ ► and i want something that will last me 10 years yeah you know in theory 10 years right like it
01:28:22 ◼ ► doesn't go to but like i want a bit of headroom which is much more achievable for me now
01:28:32 ◼ ► the most out of this mac pro and i could keep running it for longer but i really don't like
01:28:38 ◼ ► having to use a dock for the important io and i just aren't enough ports on this machine yeah
01:28:46 ◼ ► it's funny you know i oftentimes will bring the computer to different parts of the house
01:28:51 ◼ ► i'm running an m3 max macbook pro i had an m1 max macbook pro before i probably shouldn't have
01:28:55 ◼ ► upgraded but i couldn't resist and i'm glad i did but i probably didn't need to nevertheless uh it
01:29:01 ◼ ► is not unusual particularly when doing development work so i have a phone plugged in i might have an
01:29:05 ◼ ► external display plugged in or perhaps i have uh the vision pro plugged in i can quickly run out
01:29:11 ◼ ► of my three usb ports that's not even counting power you know i've got magsafe for power
01:29:16 ◼ ► i i don't think the machine has too few ports but i would not complain if it had a couple more
01:29:23 ◼ ► last one i wanted to start on with you unless there was any that you wanted specifically to
01:29:28 ◼ ► give more context on was apple tv plus you said impressive yeah i didn't expect much of
01:29:34 ◼ ► apple tv plus when it was originally announced especially since you know early on all we really
01:29:38 ◼ ► knew of apple's entertainment stuff was like behind the app or whatever it was and that like
01:29:44 ◼ ► in the carpool karaoke and there were like a couple of things early on that were just not good
01:29:50 ◼ ► but then you know ted lasso drops and what was that 2020 and ever since then i feel like i have
01:29:57 ◼ ► had many different people both in and out of nerd circles recommend to me a smattering of different
01:30:03 ◼ ► apple tv plus shows and we have not watched all of them and we're not caught up on a couple of them
01:30:08 ◼ ► but any that we've spent the time to try i don't think there's been a one that we've been like
01:30:13 ◼ ► eh like we've loved uh or maybe loved a strong but we've we really liked the morning show we
01:30:18 ◼ ► haven't seen the most recent season we've loved for all mankind that's the best recent season
01:30:23 ◼ ► i mean for all mankind is really that's that show my opinion um shrinking is phenomenal
01:30:29 ◼ ► i'll wait for the last so it's phenomenal um uh what's the one that with ben stiller directed
01:30:34 ◼ ► i'm drawing a blank thank you severance we all of i think those are the only slow horses we
01:30:40 ◼ ► haven't watched that one oh okay so you will love slow horses i know the kinds of books that you
01:30:45 ◼ ► like right and like i know that we both like jack ryan like you like those kinds of like spy and
01:30:50 ◼ ► that kind of stuff yes but i think we talked about this on analog several months ago now but i read
01:30:54 ◼ ► the first slow horses book and i thought it was fine forget it forget it forget it i bet you i
01:30:59 ◼ ► would enjoy the tv show quite a bit more gary oldman less work is just incredible in the show
01:31:10 ◼ ► oh yeah how was that really good really good it's three hours it's split into two parts it's kind of
01:31:17 ◼ ► like looking at back at his career and then looking at where he is now which is really great and we
01:31:24 ◼ ► just started watching palm royale i've heard of this but i know nothing of it it's really nice
01:31:31 ◼ ► like it's not setting the world on fire but i think it is a visual treat and like it's it's
01:31:37 ◼ ► quite an interesting story we're about maybe a third or halfway through i would recommend
01:31:43 ◼ ► checking it out like that this got a fantastic cast at least ricky martin's in it which is oh
01:31:51 ◼ ► wow no that's cool rich is amazing god damn does he look incredible my god he spends a lot of time
01:31:56 ◼ ► to be shot off and oh boy ricky martin he's like 55 years old isn't he i need caution but uh
01:32:03 ◼ ► whatever the case maybe no that's not at all surprising there's a lot of either makeup or like
01:32:08 ◼ ► smoothing with cgi and some of these characters in this but like nevertheless he looks incredible uh
01:32:13 ◼ ► he looks incredible that's very cool but yeah that's that's really fun yeah i agree i mean the
01:32:17 ◼ ► thing that i worry about about tv plus is the viewership is is very low it's very low it's a bit
01:32:24 ◼ ► it's got starting to become a bit of a joke in hollywood for that like people want to keep bringing
01:32:29 ◼ ► shows to them because apple pays a lot and they pay up front which is not normal and they are
01:32:34 ◼ ► allowing people to take swings and take risks and you know as well like it seems that if you do a
01:32:39 ◼ ► project with them they will keep working with you on new projects like it seems to be like they're
01:32:44 ◼ ► building good relationships but the viewership is is very low compared to the other streamers i'm
01:32:50 ◼ ► surprised i totally believe you i am not at all trying to argue with you but i'm surprised that
01:32:53 ◼ ► that's the case because again i've had so many people reach out and say oh severance is so good
01:32:59 ◼ ► oh shrinking is amazing i mean of course no but this is regular this is regular people too it's
01:33:08 ◼ ► breakout right like ted lasso so basically a lot of this stuff is the neilson ratings right
01:33:14 ◼ ► and the neilson ratings are really low but ted lasso they made it into the top 10 but it's like
01:33:18 ◼ ► the only time they've done that so like they have the opportunity to do it but the general like
01:33:22 ◼ ► people are not watching content on these on their platform and part of it might be is that they don't
01:33:28 ◼ ► have a lot of content right so maybe when it looks like how much time are people spending on any
01:33:33 ◼ ► streaming platform apples might be lowest because they don't have 10 seasons of the office to watch
01:33:40 ◼ ► but they are low and you know again all we have is that data because no one will ever tell you
01:33:46 ◼ ► anything right but they're having successes for sure i just hope that they're willing to stick
01:33:52 ◼ ► with it in the long term there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to though because they have
01:33:58 ◼ ► the money right but it is i find it a shame that that more people don't watch a lot of their stuff
01:34:03 ◼ ► which is like genuinely you know in the last five years the majority of my favorite new tv shows are
01:34:09 ◼ ► coming from apple tv plus yeah which is incredible and so i i like i said it's impressive i really do
01:34:15 ◼ ► think it's impressive thank you for allowing me to check your vibes of course my vibes may always be
01:34:21 ◼ ► checked by you mike i am here for you this episode is brought to you by vitally customer success
01:34:27 ◼ ► teams today they're facing a new problem how do they connect customer data back to their work
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01:35:30 ◼ ► upgrade and get that free pair of airpods pro that is vitally.io/upgrade and get yourself a free pair
01:35:39 ◼ ► of airpods pro when you schedule a qualified meeting our thanks to vitally for their support
01:35:44 ◼ ► of this show and relay fm let's finish out today with some ask upgrade questions are you familiar
01:35:51 ◼ ► with this segment we have listeners write in with questions and then we answer them we call it ask
01:35:57 ◼ ► upgrade are you familiar with this kc i am i dropped the ball on the lasers at first my apologies i
01:36:02 ◼ ► completely forgot for a second good laser work good laser work that's right lucky writes in and says
01:36:07 ◼ ► how much storage did you both get in your vision pro and how much are you using right now do you
01:36:12 ◼ ► think base model storage is enough to get by don't worry about the number it's not important
01:36:16 ◼ ► i was gonna say i'm not sure how much i'm using because the answer is like it for me i got the
01:36:22 ◼ ► 512 right the middle one the amount that i'm using is just the amount that apps take up
01:36:27 ◼ ► i'm storing no content on this device this was just a question at first of like will i store
01:36:34 ◼ ► anything will i have download anything on here like i wasn't sure um and so like that's kind
01:36:40 ◼ ► of my answer right now i would say you don't need to do any other tier the reason i got the middle
01:36:47 ◼ ► tier is i don't know what's coming right and that was kind of how i felt at the time and 256
01:36:53 ◼ ► gigabytes wasn't a lot really and so i thought well let me get 512 because let's say for example if
01:36:58 ◼ ► i'm traveling and i download a bunch of movies like they're big files and we don't know how long
01:37:03 ◼ ► this device is around for right like if this hardware is around for four years things might
01:37:07 ◼ ► really change and so that's that's very fair yeah i got the 256 i wanted to get in and out as cheaply
01:37:12 ◼ ► as i could which still was not cheap i was like in for a pound pound pound in front of a pound
01:37:17 ◼ ► it's fair and i i wish i had had the chance to um to check but uh i know that i got the 256 and to
01:37:27 ◼ ► your point the only real data i have on it is downloaded movies and the only reason i did that
01:37:32 ◼ ► was for train travel actually leaving when i visited you in new york um and i'm planning to
01:37:38 ◼ ► probably be using it on a plane uh later this month for reasons and and so i've downloaded
01:37:43 ◼ ► some movies on there but other than that i have no data on there and i feel like sitting here today
01:37:48 ◼ ► 256 um is probably enough billy asks how many domain names do you own i looked i did look
01:37:59 ◼ ► earlier today to verify this and i have 11 only 11 okay so so billy's question is i hear mike
01:38:04 ◼ ► specifically mentioned very specific dot coms for his shows including upgrade and i'm curious you
01:38:10 ◼ ► have 11 do you have any that are like interesting outliers like do you have any domain names for
01:38:15 ◼ ► things that are like interesting names that you just got them for do you only have them for like
01:38:20 ◼ ► specific things no i don't think i have any like goofy ones like i know on bonanza may it rest in
01:38:26 ◼ ► peace that that was the you know the the case study and goofy names for things um i have uh a domain
01:38:34 ◼ ► for mikayla's name which is you know parked effectively i have a couple different variants
01:38:39 ◼ ► of app related domain names i just recently registered a domain name that i might use in the
01:38:44 ◼ ► future to represent services that are running out of the house so this may or may not ever be used
01:38:50 ◼ ► publicly but i wanted an actual domain name for it what do you mean what does that mean services so
01:38:55 ◼ ► like i have i have some things some like uh web-based things that that are served on my
01:39:01 ◼ ► synology here at home you can't have a podcast with me without talking about the technology
01:39:04 ◼ ► and so they're based out of the house and whether or not they're publicly accessible via the internet
01:39:09 ◼ ► publicly reachable via the internet the internet i might still want to have a domain name that will
01:39:14 ◼ ► respond with a like locally with an ip address that's only available locally and so i just in
01:39:19 ◼ ► the other just the other day registered that i do have lists dot family which i believe just
01:39:23 ◼ ► redirects to my website oh and i have a i have a deckland's name as well but by and large it's
01:39:29 ◼ ► nothing that interesting i guess the most kind of clever thing that i have is accidental.tech
01:39:33 ◼ ► which i thought was kind of fun um which i believe just redirects to atp.fm but yeah there's nothing
01:39:38 ◼ ► that exciting here there's 11. i have across two hover accounts uh i have 86 domain names
01:39:47 ◼ ► holy jamolys yeah it's a bit of a problem i i turn a bunch of them off every now and then so they
01:39:53 ◼ ► don't renew um but i i have like a large variety of domain names which are some of them they needed
01:40:02 ◼ ► some of them i have them but they're not needed some of them are like things i might use in the
01:40:07 ◼ ► future and some of them are just fun things that i like to have so like a bunch of them are jokes
01:40:12 ◼ ► like 123 membership.com which i think goes to connected membership i have filofeedback.com i
01:40:19 ◼ ► don't know where that goes um i think it is to our feet i think it might be going to the feedback
01:40:23 ◼ ► form for upgrade but these are jokes i make like there was one time where i made a joke about you
01:40:29 ◼ ► could spell get more text.com however you want oh i remember this that was a mistake that that is uh
01:40:36 ◼ ► 11 of my domain names is that especially because it was made into an animation so they're now on
01:40:43 ◼ ► youtube forever um i have a couple of interesting ones i have paidcasts.com interesting okay like
01:40:51 ◼ ► podcast but the word paid that was just like an idea that i had sometimes i have like words or
01:40:57 ◼ ► phrases that pop up and i'm like is that available and it is and i'm like i'll take that and so
01:41:01 ◼ ► i have a few of those uh what else i'm looking if i have anything else in here that's interesting
01:41:09 ◼ ► uh hackitnumber.com what was that i remember that being a thing what was that about it's
01:41:16 ◼ ► it's i don't remember now it's something related to the amount of computers you have represented
01:41:24 ◼ ► in oh yes based on a singular state of stephen's collection so you can calculate your own hackit
01:41:31 ◼ ► number based on that right right right right there's a similar thing in the relay discord
01:41:36 ◼ ► called the hurley number which is about your keyboard collection based on a constant state
01:41:40 ◼ ► of my keyboard collection at one point yeah i have a lot of domain names um it seems so
01:41:46 ◼ ► merely eight times what i have yeah your annual bills i know it's probably it's horrible of the
01:41:53 ◼ ► entire it's really bad that's especially because there is a certain time of the year when most of
01:41:57 ◼ ► them renew which is like in the summer is when all of the membership domains renew indeed which
01:42:02 ◼ ► includes all of those more text ones um and now i have like ones that were like for an episode once
01:42:08 ◼ ► like we did ask upgrade out loud.com where we had listeners submit video like audio of them
01:42:15 ◼ ► asking their ask up good questions we should do that again at some point because i have this
01:42:19 ◼ ► domain name that's true you might as well justify it might as well just it all of the max.com i
01:42:24 ◼ ► don't even know what that is i some of them is like i know these are like ref there's a jokes
01:42:28 ◼ ► for something but who could even tell what they are i also have uh so obviously my product the
01:42:33 ◼ ► sidekick notepad people think i say psychic notepad i was one of my own psychic notepad.com
01:42:39 ◼ ► for this reason you've got to prepare yourself that's very good i have a casey list question
01:42:45 ◼ ► for you right here it comes from mark mark wants to know how much extra would you be willing to pay
01:42:53 ◼ ► for a cellular mac so i'm thinking of the option how much would you be willing to pay to add on top
01:43:01 ◼ ► of the price of a mac laptop for it to have cellular connectivity all right hold on i gotta
01:43:06 ◼ ► log into my bank to see how much free money i have really because it is all of it how much more like
01:43:11 ◼ ► what is what is a like realistic surcharge that you'd be willing to have i think 200 or less i'm
01:43:20 ◼ ► not even blinking an eye i think all right 500 i'm starting to think is it really worth it i want
01:43:27 ◼ ► this so badly and for those that are that are really into tethering this probably sounds nuts
01:43:33 ◼ ► and for those that don't ever work outside of like a building this sounds bananas and to be fair
01:43:39 ◼ ► since covet has been settled down i'm not going to sit here and try to say it's gone away but since
01:43:44 ◼ ► it's settled down i will go into the library i will go into uh wegmans you know the local
01:43:48 ◼ ► grocer that has a really nice cafe area with tables and whatnot um and so i don't necessarily
01:43:54 ◼ ► need this as much as i did during covet times where i would only want to go outdoors to a
01:43:58 ◼ ► park bench don't call it a picnic table or to you know somewhere else but nevertheless like
01:44:03 ◼ ► if i'm a passenger in a car particularly like on a long car ride i'm likely to want to get a little
01:44:10 ◼ ► bit of work done and it would be phenomenal to just open the lid on my mac and effectively
01:44:16 ◼ ► instantly have an internet connection i would pay i would genuinely pay at least a couple hundred
01:44:21 ◼ ► dollars and i think around the 500 mark is where i would probably go maybe tethering is the right
01:44:26 ◼ ► answer you know what i mean like i would pay literally hundreds of dollars to have this option
01:44:30 ◼ ► and it would probably completely neuter my battery you know dramatically affect my battery life don't
01:44:37 ◼ ► care uh it's it's worth it especially with the apple silicon when you have all that extra battery
01:44:42 ◼ ► life anyway i i want this so badly i i would do almost anything for it i want it give it to me
01:44:48 ◼ ► please yeah i find tethering just like not in that like automatic tether tethering not to be
01:44:57 ◼ ► a very good experience i actually i wouldn't say i'm a unicorn but it works for me more often than
01:45:03 ◼ ► it doesn't but it doesn't work enough that it isn't annoying does that make sense you know
01:45:07 ◼ ► it's still just annoying enough that i absolutely want for this and plus the other thing with
01:45:11 ◼ ► tethering is now instead of destroying one battery you're now destroying two batteries you're
01:45:16 ◼ ► destroying the battery of the device you're using the battery of the device that you're tethering to
01:45:20 ◼ ► and and i just don't like it i just don't dig that and so yeah i would absolutely without a shadow of
01:45:25 ◼ ► doubt i would love for this to be an option maybe one day you'll get exactly what you want you'll
01:45:33 ◼ ► get your tethering mac i'm not convinced that they will ever do it at this point i don't think they
01:45:38 ◼ ► will i think we're more likely to get a touchscreen mac than we are a mac with cellular built-in but
01:45:43 ◼ ► for me i would vastly prefer a cellular enabled mac over a touchscreen mac i would like to provide
01:45:50 ◼ ► some really important real-time follow-up that's just been sent to me to wrap up today's episode
01:45:54 ◼ ► jason snell was on good morning america this morning what are you serious yeah um it's like
01:46:00 ◼ ► a random passerby or is like no featured he uh is to do with the eclipse and so jason was part of a
01:46:10 ◼ ► video package i think he called in from an airport about what to expect for a solar eclipse i think
01:46:16 ◼ ► it was like a pre-recorded thing i put a link in the show notes uh it's called what to expect for
01:46:23 ◼ ► a total solar eclipse uh and jason features in this video around the two minute and 50 second mark
01:46:32 ◼ ► and so he's calling in talking about his eclipse experiences uh how did this happen it's jason
01:46:38 ◼ ► snell what is happening i know how this happened i will allow for jason to tell that story of course
01:46:44 ◼ ► to tell that story yeah yeah definitely but oh my good gracious that's incredible so that that is
01:46:49 ◼ ► so funny if you if people want to want to watch jason and good morning america clearly he's
01:46:54 ◼ ► upgraded uh from this show right i'd say so interested in this show anymore he just wants to be
01:47:00 ◼ ► on morning shows instead he's like upgrade no way put me on gma only and that's where he is in his
01:47:07 ◼ ► life you know gma today gma today that's incredible that's i think that's where dma today comes from
01:47:13 ◼ ► it's one of those things i don't remember which one it was usa no it's usa today it's this yeah
01:47:18 ◼ ► yes the newspaper wow that's bananas i can't believe that that's so cool if you would like
01:47:24 ◼ ► to send in a question for jason and i to answer on next week's episode or you have any feedback
01:47:29 ◼ ► we don't know i mean who knows yes maybe national sensation he's just a correspondent now jason's
01:47:34 ◼ ► been discovered but if he is back you can send your questions in upgrade feedback.com thank you
01:47:40 ◼ ► to casey for filling in for jason this week if you want to find casey's work online go to caseylist.com
01:47:46 ◼ ► you should check out his app call sheet in the app store and you can hear casey's podcasts atp
01:47:52 ◼ ► and also analog which is on relay fm with me so if you enjoy the two of us together you can listen
01:47:57 ◼ ► to a show that's us every month just talking really it's just talking about our lives it's
01:48:01 ◼ ► just where casey and i get together we talk about what's going on our lives if you care about us
01:48:05 ◼ ► you'll probably enjoy that show you can listen to my shows like analog on relay fm you can check out
01:48:10 ◼ ► my work at cortexbrand.com you can find us online casey is at casey list c a s e y l i s s that's
01:48:18 ◼ ► casey list i am at my mic i m y k e you can watch video of this show which this week includes
01:48:24 ◼ ► caseyless over on tiktok instagram and youtube where we are at upgrade relay thank you to our
01:48:30 ◼ ► members who support us of upgrade plus go to getupgradeplus.com to sign up thank you to our