503: We Own the Refs, the Stadium, and the Field


00:00:00   [music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 503 for March 11th, 2024.

00:00:15   This episode is brought to you by Factor and DeleteMe.

00:00:18   My name is Mike Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason.

00:00:22   - Hi, Mike. How are you? - I'm very good, thank you. How are you?

00:00:26   - I'm doing good. Why wouldn't I be? - Yeah, exactly.

00:00:29   I mean, we're recording this an hour earlier than usual because of the cruel tyranny of time,

00:00:37   - and I couldn't be more excited. - It's not really an hour.

00:00:41   It depends on how you look at time, right? Because for you it's the same time.

00:00:44   It's actually an hour earlier for me, but you've lost an hour.

00:00:48   But I've lost an hour and I can't find it anywhere.

00:00:51   - I hope you find it. - Boo. Thanks.

00:00:53   I have a Snow Talk question for you that comes from a Christian who wants to know,

00:00:58   "What is your strategy with the face detection feature of photos?

00:01:02   Do you only tag close friends and family or do you give a name to anyone it detects?"

00:01:07   Christian, neither of those. Neither of those.

00:01:10   I do not only tag close friends and family, nor do I give a name to everyone it detects.

00:01:16   I give a name to anyone whose name I know off the top of my head,

00:01:23   so I know them well enough to label them.

00:01:25   There's a lot of pictures of little kids from my kids' school things,

00:01:32   and they don't get tagged unless it's very obviously like a friend my kids had for a long time,

00:01:40   in which case I will mark them.

00:01:42   For example, I've been inconsistent with famous people because I'm looking at my photos library here.

00:01:51   Hey, there's Seth Green. He's in my photos library.

00:01:54   That's weird. - Because he was at the Space Shuttle launch that I went to.

00:01:57   Okay, I'm going to tag Seth Green. There he is. Now he's tagged.

00:02:01   I recognize Seth Green and now he's in there.

00:02:03   Well, I think I have Sal, who you all know. I've got him in there.

00:02:06   I think I have Steve Jobs and Tim Cook in my people, because I have pictures of Steve Jobs and Tim Cook.

00:02:13   But mostly it's friends and family and kids' friends and stuff like that.

00:02:19   And occasionally, there are lots of random faces that I have not done anything with.

00:02:26   I just leave them in there. But I'm saying I named my daughter's kindergarten teacher.

00:02:33   As I scroll through, there are some that are named, but mostly not.

00:02:42   Yeah, okay. I think you fall closer to the second category, where I am in the first category,

00:02:47   where I only put names to people I truly really care about in my life.

00:02:52   And so there are people in the ad people section where I'm not going to put them in.

00:02:57   Because for me, it's like, whose photos do I really want to look back over?

00:03:02   And I actually also did find out in preparing for this, I didn't know that it was called People and Pets now,

00:03:09   because it used to be called Faces. - It is. That was just this version last fall.

00:03:14   And in fact, as I just put it into our Discord, I have pets there, including not my own pets.

00:03:19   Romeo, the adorable friend of the show, who is occasionally walking across the rooftop next to me as I record.

00:03:27   He has his own entry, where I've snapped various shots of Romeo doing his thing, adventuring around my neighborhood.

00:03:34   I have two pets in mind. My brother's dog and a friend's dog.

00:03:39   I wonder, actually, I don't know the answer to this. If you don't tag pets, does it just say people?

00:03:45   I don't think so. I think it's renamed to People and Pets, regardless.

00:03:50   If you have no photos of animals at all in your photo library, I don't know what happens then.

00:03:56   If anybody does know, please let us know. Write in over at UpgradeFeedback.com.

00:04:02   If you have no animals, does it say just people? Or maybe I'll say just the first person write that in.

00:04:08   If you don't think you're the first person, don't write in, because otherwise I'll be digging through a lot of follow-up.

00:04:11   Or just don't write in.

00:04:12   Or just don't write in at all. Thank you so much to Christian for sending that question.

00:04:16   If you would like to help us open an episode of the show, just send in a Snell Talk question.

00:04:21   We're going to UpgradeFeedback.com. It can be about anything you like. You help us open an episode.

00:04:27   Couple of items of follow-up. We are recording the day after the Oscars. Did you watch the Oscars, Jason?

00:04:33   I did. I watched the whole thing.

00:04:36   And Apple didn't win any.

00:04:39   Apple won zero, even though Killers of the Flower Moon was up for a lot, and that's an Apple movie.

00:04:44   Apparently, they ran a big campaign, spent a lot of money. No Oscars.

00:04:49   I think Lily Gladstone was their best chance, and she was one of the favorites for the Best Actress award.

00:04:55   But it sounded like kind of a toss-up between her and Emma Stone, and Emma Stone won that one.

00:05:03   So none for Marty and Marty's movie, and none for Tim and company.

00:05:09   But it happens. They can just hold Coda tighter to their heart.

00:05:14   It's the same for Netflix, too, right? They didn't win anything with Maestro.

00:05:16   I know that that was their big bet, was Maestro, and they didn't win on that either.

00:05:22   I did what I always do. I watched a bunch of clips this morning.

00:05:25   So I watched the monologue, which I enjoyed, but especially my very favorite thing.

00:05:30   And I recommend everybody watches this. Ryan Gosling just going all out with his performance of I'm Just Ken,

00:05:37   which is the musical number from Barbie. This man is an absolute treasure.

00:05:41   The amount of effort he put into this from a performance perspective, I was very impressed.

00:05:46   And it's so much fun. And it's great.

00:05:49   It's great. It's fantastic. It's the high point of the whole show.

00:05:53   And I say that as somebody who didn't really love his performance in Barbie.

00:05:58   But this? Yeah, I didn't really like it. I thought he was outshined, charisma-wise, by other Kens.

00:06:05   And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe don't put Sima Liu so close to Ryan Gosling.

00:06:11   But this is amazing. It's great.

00:06:14   And my other high point of the whole thing was when Danny DeVito and Arnold Schwarzenegger came out,

00:06:19   and you thought they were going to do a twins joke. And they're like, "Well, you know why we're here.

00:06:22   It's because we both lost to Batman." And they're like, "There he is."

00:06:26   And it's Michael Keaton in the audience, and he's giving him the steely glare of Batman.

00:06:30   And he holds it the whole bit. They keep cutting back to him.

00:06:33   He's still giving him the steely glare and some nods and some "I'm going to get yous" hand gestures.

00:06:39   And it's just that was like, that made me laugh so much.

00:06:41   So it's like, "Ah, yes, it's Batman, including the great line. How'd he get you?"

00:06:47   He's like, "Well, you know, he found my one weakness. Heat? No, love."

00:06:52   And he says, "Oh, he just threw me out. He just threw me out a window."

00:06:55   It looked like this was a pretty good Oscar for this kind of stuff.

00:06:58   The John Cena bit was very funny to me.

00:07:01   John Cena bit was good? Yeah, there were mostly good bits.

00:07:03   There was one... Even the presenter bits were pretty good.

00:07:06   I actually liked the... They had five former winners come out and speak directly to the five nominees

00:07:12   in the acting categories. I thought that was really good.

00:07:16   There was one intro that was really groan-worthy and bad,

00:07:20   where there was a whole banter back and forth. I forget what it was even now.

00:07:24   And it was just the worst. It was just unwatchable.

00:07:27   But other than that one, it did really well. So I think they did a good job.

00:07:31   I enjoyed it. I thought it was a pretty good show.

00:07:36   Oh, yeah, John Mulaney doing his whole getting off track with Field of Dreams plot thread questions

00:07:42   instead of introducing the category. Also very funny, and John Mulaney is just great.

00:07:46   There are rumors about this, and I hope it's true, that Mulaney might be the next Oscars host

00:07:52   or might do it after Kimmel, because he did the Governor's Ball,

00:07:56   which is the one, or the Governor's something. Isn't that the ball?

00:07:59   There's like a pre-Oscars thing. And he hosted that.

00:08:03   So he's great. Kimmel is perfect for that job. I was reminded again.

00:08:09   He's perfect for that job. Yeah, some of his jokes were silly and some of his jokes were dad jokes,

00:08:12   but he's trying to set a mood, take it a little light, while also understanding

00:08:20   that this is important for the nominees. ABC does the Oscars. He's a talk show host on ABC,

00:08:25   so it actually is a perfect fit. But I think he's very good at the job.

00:08:30   So if he doesn't want to do any more, I think, sure, John Mulaney is hilarious

00:08:34   and would be a very interesting choice. But also in my mind, Kimmel and this year's producers

00:08:41   could just keep doing it, because they did a good job. Sorry, Apple.

00:08:47   And my favorite movie, the movie that I walked out of, and I thought, yep, that's it.

00:08:50   That's the best movie I saw all year. That's probably best picture. That happened.

00:08:54   So Oppenheimer won them all. I have a point, but I could just go back to the Kimmel part.

00:08:59   The one part of it I did not like the jokes about Robert Downey Jr. I didn't think that

00:09:04   they were good, and I feel like we should have passed these kinds of jokes in 2024.

00:09:09   I liked it up to a point, and I thought it went on too long. I think viewing it from a

00:09:17   Hollywood perspective of that he was unemployable, and then he's come all the way back to this.

00:09:25   But then again, he did that and better in his thank you speech.

00:09:29   It was way better. I think it would have been better to lean on the unemployable

00:09:35   than to make drug jokes. That was not, I didn't find that.

00:09:39   Well, they started to riff on it, and it was a bit, like I said, I think it went on too far.

00:09:43   I think that there was a little jab to be made about like, can you believe it?

00:09:47   And then you move on and it dwelt on. There were a few bits like that where I was like,

00:09:51   yeah, you know, but that's in the grand scheme of things, pretty good for,

00:09:56   I mean, I've seen some Oscar shows that were like death, and this was not that.

00:09:59   Then about Oppenheimer, we were watching it this morning, and Eddie turned to me and she was like,

00:10:04   I just think it's great that the best picture is a movie we actually saw and enjoyed,

00:10:09   which is like, I feel like it's a rare thing. I feel like for a long time, we've watched

00:10:16   the best picture after it won best picture because it won best picture. But like, it's rare that like

00:10:23   there was the movie that I chose to see because I wanted to see it ended up being the best picture.

00:10:29   So yeah, it's a good feeling.

00:10:31   DMA today time, everybody's favorite segment. This is actually DMA related today. It's not

00:10:40   just European adjacent. So over the course of about three days last week, Apple pulled

00:10:46   and reinstated Epic's developer account in Sweden again. So I'm going to try and bridge all of this.

00:10:55   It started with an exchange of emails between Phil Schiller and Tim Sweeney about getting assertions

00:11:01   that Epic would follow the rules again, and not like break rules like they did last time.

00:11:06   Then Apple removed Epic's account again, in part because of public criticisms that Sweeney posted

00:11:13   on X about Apple's response to the DMA, which is a wild thing for Phil Schiller to put in writing.

00:11:19   Just like, I don't know what he's doing. Then the EU commission, I think quite rightly,

00:11:26   started asking questions about this. Then Apple reinstated them again. This is a stupid,

00:11:32   petty mess to add on top of all of the other stupid messes that they're trying to deal with

00:11:37   right now. This is absolutely superfluous, unnecessary, benefited nobody. I do not know

00:11:43   why this happened. Yeah, it was after the, I would say, basically a PR own goal of them putting down

00:11:50   in their little letter about how they essentially view the app store as a gift to everybody else,

00:11:55   and that Spotify built a whole big successful business on Apple, giving it to them for free.

00:12:02   Which at the time, I think I said this last week, I thought, "Well, doesn't that make you look kind

00:12:07   of dumb that that was your business model that you stuck with?" Also, it just gets to the whole idea

00:12:12   of Apple's attitude toward other people being involved in their platforms as being that Apple

00:12:17   creates the value and they sort of suck the value away, which is not true. It's much more symbiotic

00:12:21   than they would believe. But this, I think this shows just how rooted this mindset is,

00:12:29   which is, and also I gotta say a little bit baffling, and this is the thing is I thought

00:12:36   when I saw that letter from Phil Schiller basically saying, "Hey, Tim, you know, reassure me you're not

00:12:43   going to break the rules again." And his response was, "I absolutely reassure you we will not break

00:12:49   the rules again, and I will provide anything you want in writing to say that." The result was then

00:12:57   that Apple then banned them and said they did it because they were mean to Apple, they dared to

00:13:03   criticize Apple publicly. It's like, "Well, wait a second. Feelty to Apple is not in the App Store

00:13:10   rules, right? Omerta, right? Silence and do not talk about Apple and your relationship with Apple

00:13:18   is not in the App Store rules, nor would it be legal for it to be there, especially in Europe."

00:13:24   And so for them to do that, it shows you how petty and vindictive people at Apple can be. And

00:13:31   it's a bad look when you're an incredibly powerful company. It's understandable to a certain extent

00:13:37   when you're fighting for your life, which is I think why that attitude got ingrained in Apple.

00:13:42   It was in the early Steve Jobs return era, and they were fighting for their lives. But I will say

00:13:46   also I think it's just a Steve Jobs trait that has transferred to the company, as he's always

00:13:50   felt like he did. He always felt like he did great works and everybody else made money off of it,

00:13:55   and he felt like they were all just kind of leeching off of his greatness. And just bottom

00:13:59   line, I've seen it. It happened in the relationship with Macworld and Macworld Expo. It's just a fact.

00:14:04   And then I see it here and I think, "Oh yeah." And let's be clear, I'm just going to be honest.

00:14:09   Look, I've worked with a lot of great people at Apple over the years, but I've seen this firsthand

00:14:16   that if you do stuff Apple doesn't like, they won't say so necessarily, but they'll punish you.

00:14:23   They'll punish you. They'll forget you on the next round of review units or whatever. It has

00:14:31   happened to me multiple times, to people I know multiple times. And in this, I was getting the

00:14:37   flashbacks, which is it's like, "Oh, we're going to..." Phil Schiller assures Sweeney that if he

00:14:46   gives him his word, basically, they'll let them back in, probably knowing that the European

00:14:53   Commission wants them to let them back in. And Sweeney, who is not a compliant guy,

00:14:58   I find him unpleasant and he has a real attitude. And his response to Phil is like, "Yes, Phil,

00:15:06   anything. I assure you, and we will provide anything you want." And then they're also doing

00:15:12   their public publicity campaign against Apple's policies. And that's what gets you kicked out,

00:15:20   is daring to speak your dissent to the powerful gatekeeper. Well, that's certainly not going to

00:15:27   play well in the regulatory environment where they're trying to shut down powerful gatekeepers.

00:15:33   But I found the whole thing telling and offensive. And I feel like Apple's relationship with

00:15:42   regulators and developers about the App Store needs a reset. And while Phil...

00:15:49   Really, Phil fixed a lot of things that were wrong with the App Store when he came back.

00:15:57   Because remember, Eddie was in charge of this, and I think didn't really care about it. And Phil

00:16:01   Schiller came in, took it over. And if you think relationships with Apple and developers are bad

00:16:06   now, you should have seen it back then. The number of arbitrary rejections and some of the rules,

00:16:13   a lot of things changed for the better. At this point, though, when I look at stuff like this,

00:16:18   I feel like there needs to be some new blood in this relationship. Almost politically, you need to

00:16:23   sort of say, "No, we're going to put somebody new in charge of this stuff, and they're going to be

00:16:27   able to sort of say, "Okay, we're going to reset, and we're going to change the rules a little bit,

00:16:31   and we're going to..." It's not going to be like it was. Because this is so poisonous that I'm

00:16:36   not sure how Phil Schiller can represent Apple in this stuff. And that's not to say that he

00:16:43   hasn't done some good stuff and isn't a really smart guy, but I feel like this can't continue

00:16:50   like this. It's different people for different phases, right? Eddie was good for getting it set

00:16:55   up. Phil has been good for building it up to this powerhouse that it is and giving more options to

00:17:00   developers for how they make money and this kind of stuff. But maybe there is a new mindset needed

00:17:07   for the regulation era of the App Store. Quite frankly, it's a long email that Phil wrote to Tim,

00:17:15   where essentially it boils down to the fact that you broke the rules in the past, and your

00:17:21   criticism is why we're not letting you in. And so really what it means is it's the criticism.

00:17:26   It's the criticism. They reinstated the account knowing full well what they'd done in the past.

00:17:31   So the only thing that had changed is Tim Sweeney was tweeting about it. And that is an

00:17:37   absolutely unacceptable reason to deny anyone to be in the App Store, let alone one of the biggest

00:17:45   game makers in the world, probably the biggest game maker in the world, which should be on the

00:17:49   platform. Why do you think I have anonymous people who do the Apple report card every year?

00:17:53   Honestly, this is the thing is if you want things out of Apple, I mean, it's not necessarily if I'm

00:18:00   on the record criticizing Apple, Apple's going to pull me from the App Store, my perfectly fine app,

00:18:05   but it does mean like, "Oh, now I'm not going to get help with my app," or "Now I'm not going to

00:18:09   get my app featured in the App Store," or whatever. Now my icon is never going to appear on a slide at

00:18:16   WWDC. It's petty stuff like that. That absolutely happens. So that's the problem here. And that's

00:18:23   why I think there needs to be a reset. And I don't know what it's going to take. What's it going to

00:18:28   take? Is this what it's going to take? Is it a $2 billion fine that it's going to take? Is it going

00:18:33   to be a future fine that's even larger from the EC than what it's going to take? The 10% of the

00:18:37   overall company turnover. Those are the fines that are on the line for the DMA. So I don't know what

00:18:45   it's going to take, but I know we've talked about this a lot in the past, but like now there's even

00:18:49   more teeth to it. Like Apple's not playing the game it thinks it's playing. It's not playing the

00:18:56   game it was playing five years ago, certainly not 10 years ago or 15 years ago. And yet it's acting

00:19:03   like it is. It's acting like it's an upstart that's just trying to make it and figuring things out.

00:19:10   And it's like it's 2009 and it's not. It's 2024. You're a giant. You're making huge amounts of

00:19:17   money and acting in a way that is like, you know, that is imperious and dangerous and arrogant and

00:19:25   threatening to all of those who are not as powerful as you, who you hold sway over,

00:19:31   which is everybody. And again, just to be clear about this, the whole DMA and the whole EC thing,

00:19:39   the whole idea there, the concept behind it is that there are certain gatekeepers so powerful

00:19:44   that they exert an undue amount of power over everybody. And so it's bad for businesses and

00:19:51   consumers. Nothing reinforces that than trying to rule by fear, which is effectively what Apple

00:20:00   has been and continues to do. And there there's no better example than this of literally do not

00:20:07   criticize us or we will make your business break. This is the best example. Like, I can't recall

00:20:14   ever seeing in writing an Apple executive telling a developer we are not going to allow you in the

00:20:24   app store because you were mean. And it is wild to me. Yeah, because you disagree with us about our

00:20:31   business and you said it out loud. You can disagree with us all you like as long as you never

00:20:35   tell anybody and act like you like it. That's the policy. It's wild of all the times to do this.

00:20:43   That's why I made that comment about writing it down. The fact that this is written down is like,

00:20:48   have you learned nothing? But I just want to spell this out again, though, just to say

00:20:55   this is this is entirely consistent. Anyone who wants to tell me that this is an aberration and

00:20:59   it's because it's Tim Sweeney and all of that and that Apple doesn't normally act this way,

00:21:03   talk to someone who knows better because talk to a developer who's had a run-in with Apple,

00:21:09   talk to somebody in the press who's had a run-in with Apple. This is how Apple has operated for

00:21:14   more than a decade, for at least 15 years, probably more like 20 years, 25 years, I don't

00:21:19   know, pretty close to as long as I've been doing this. They play hardball. And like I said, it was

00:21:29   never fun, but they are so powerful now. And this is the result. It's not necessary. It is not

00:21:38   necessary. I firmly believe that Apple can compete on its own merits. And that's the part that really

00:21:45   bugs me about all of this. And again, I don't know if it's just the why should we change the

00:21:50   thing that we've done that's been so successful, whether there's some arrogance attached to that.

00:21:53   I mean, I think there is, but I think that there must be an underlying fear going on here as well,

00:22:00   because I don't think Apple needs to play like this to win, but they feel like they...

00:22:06   It's like, if you let it be a more fair playground, more fair playing field,

00:22:12   what do you think is going to happen? I think Apple would do well, but I guess their attitude

00:22:20   is why find out? It's just the worst. Why find out? If we own the refs, I mean, we've got a

00:22:29   good team. We've got a really good team. We probably got the best team, but we also own the

00:22:33   refs and the stadium and the field. So why should we even risk it? We've got to buy. This is a win.

00:22:40   The Washington generals might show up, but that's going to be it. We are going to own it. And that's

00:22:49   the part that drives me crazy, is that I think that they can... Not only do I think that they

00:22:52   could succeed on the merits, it would actually force them to make an effort in some places maybe

00:22:57   where they don't make an effort, and that would make it better for developers and better for users,

00:23:01   but instead we're left with this sort of naked bullying that's happening, and it's outrageous.

00:23:06   And again, I don't like Epic particularly, and I don't like Tim Sweeney particularly, but boy,

00:23:12   he managed to get some real clarity about Apple's behavior toward developers with this.

00:23:19   And I will just like... Hopefully, this is going to be the last point. We can move on,

00:23:22   but at least we clearly both really care about this, right? And I think, yeah, but for me,

00:23:27   I feel like I'm seeing a lot online of like anti-Europe sentiment about this whole thing

00:23:33   happening, but for me, this is why it's happening. Because without the European commission,

00:23:39   no one would have changed this decision. If this was a decision that, before the DMA,

00:23:45   that was the end of this, right? Phil Schiller sends this email to Tim Sweeney,

00:23:49   done. And because that was what they decided. Like the last 15 years, literally what you're

00:23:54   describing is the last 15 years, where if you get on Apple's bad side, if you don't do what they

00:23:58   want, you're out. That's it. There's no judge. And they only changed this decision because the

00:24:04   European commission told them to. And so they did it. So this is why we need it. Someone has

00:24:11   to change this and it's Europe. I think that there are reasonable criticisms of governments

00:24:17   trying to get results through legislation that don't necessarily get the results that they want.

00:24:22   But I think this is a really good example of what happens when oversight is added to a process where

00:24:27   there was none. In very simple terms, there was no oversight and now there is actual oversight.

00:24:33   And that's the only reason that this whole thing happened and that Epic Sweden has its account back.

00:24:38   I would prefer for it not to be a government too, but we've been asking for years for Apple to do

00:24:46   something about this and they've decided not to. We've talked about this a lot. We live in an era,

00:24:50   we were talking about this in terms of Tim Cook and China at one point, right? We live in an era

00:24:54   where, when I was a kid, I used to read science fiction about the future. The future where

00:24:59   corporations were more powerful than governments. We live in the present where corporations are

00:25:04   more powerful than most world governments and as powerful as many other world governments.

00:25:09   And this is a case where, who is going to solve this issue anywhere? And the answer is,

00:25:15   the entire European Union can take on Apple. That's what it takes. Maybe South Korea a little

00:25:25   bit, the Netherlands a little bit, takes government actors. And I'm not saying that governments are

00:25:28   the best use of this, but who else is there? Who is as powerful and can make these companies

00:25:34   do what they want? There's nobody else. They are so powerful and they have such a stronghold

00:25:39   on parts of our world that it's necessary. We have another item in DMA Today, by the way,

00:25:45   but I think it is all of the same thing, which is criticism of some of Apple's policies that leads

00:25:53   to changes in policies that I'm skeptical would ever have been made otherwise. Because again,

00:25:58   there's a hammer now with the EC. Because I guess it is worth noting, I should have mentioned this

00:26:04   at the top, the DMA is now in effect. Yes. In between the last two episodes. Happy DMA Day to

00:26:09   all who celebrate. It's happened now. And this is why I think the epic thing could be changed,

00:26:16   because well now there were the rules. The rules are in place and so everybody has to get in line.

00:26:24   Apple before releasing 17.4 and because the DMA was going into effect of 17.4, they made some

00:26:32   tweaks to the new business terms that developers can opt into. So this is everything about the

00:26:37   core technology fee and all that kind of stuff. It's the new business terms. So they made three

00:26:41   changes. Previously, if you wanted to opt in with any app that an entire business would own,

00:26:47   it would opt in every associated developer account you may have in your business. But you can now do

00:26:52   this on a per account business, not a corporation business. So if you had some large company and it

00:26:57   had multiple developer accounts and multiple apps, if you did app A, apps B and C would also need to

00:27:03   go into the new business terms. But now you don't need to do that. You can do it on a per account

00:27:09   basis. You are now allowed to switch back from the new business terms to the old ones. One time,

00:27:15   there was previously, if you go to the new business terms, there's no coming back. No

00:27:21   turning back. Now you can come back one time, which realistically means you can go back and forward

00:27:25   technically any amount of times you want. We thought, oh, there's clearly some kind of

00:27:30   technical reason for this. No, if you can come back, this means this is just what Apple wants

00:27:34   you to do, but you're allowed to go there. And if you've made a big mistake, you can go back

00:27:38   to the old 70, 30 terms. And there's new eligibility criteria for app marketplaces.

00:27:46   Basically, you can provide the letter of credit where you do like the 1 million euro.

00:27:53   There is now a second way that you can do this. So if you can't provide the line of credit,

00:27:59   you can apply to be an app marketplace if you have been "a developer in good standing

00:28:06   for more than two years" and have an app that has had more than 1 million installs in a year

00:28:13   in the European Union. These are the new terms. No changes on the core technology fee, though,

00:28:20   so nothing's been adjusted there. This might affect the developer of AltStore,

00:28:24   and I would imagine SetApp as well. It would be helpful for them, right? That they may now not

00:28:30   have to provide the line of credit. However, if those are two apps that we know had already said

00:28:35   they were doing it, so they must have been able to get that. But now maybe they don't need to.

00:28:39   Although, again, it may help them out there. And I do wonder if this is somebody going to the EC,

00:28:43   or whether this is feedback to Apple, or how exactly this pathway works to get this stuff.

00:28:48   Because it could very well be that there's feedback from developers who are like,

00:28:53   "But what about this scenario?" And Apple's like, "Oh yeah, okay,

00:28:55   all right, that doesn't hurt us. That's fine." I could imagine that there is a developer that

00:29:01   Apple would quite like to have an app marketplace, or it would be beneficial to them if they had one,

00:29:05   but they can't get the... The associated developer account thing is big,

00:29:09   too, right? Because it used to be that it was everywhere, and now it's sort of like it could be

00:29:13   in a sub-account. I actually wonder what this means for something like Facebook, right? Like,

00:29:21   could you end up with Facebook Europe having a Facebook app store, just for Facebook Europe,

00:29:27   that's separate from the blue Facebook account, and all of those, and that Facebook Europe would

00:29:35   be under the terms for their new app store, but they wouldn't be paying per install for

00:29:39   the blue app that was in the app store, but was coming from a different Facebook corporate account.

00:29:45   I don't know. Who knows?

00:29:49   This episode is brought to you by Factor. Eating better doesn't have to be hard. In fact,

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00:30:48   takeout, and every meal is dietitian approved to be nutritious and delicious. Jason, I'm sure that

00:30:53   these Factor meals are still in hot demand in the snow house for lunchtime. Well, we haven't gotten

00:30:59   a box in a little while, but the last time we got a box like three or four weeks ago, yeah, that was

00:31:03   the story, is that Lauren goes to work every day, unlike me, and she needs lunch every day. I mean,

00:31:10   I do too, but I have a whole refrigerator of food that I own, and so she would just take the meals

00:31:14   away because they passed her test. We've gotten a few boxes from Factor, and I mean, I really don't

00:31:19   think there's a better... We get podcast stuff, right? Some of us are like, "Well, that's nice,

00:31:23   dear," and the Factor meals were like, "I want that. I want that. I want that. Give me that.

00:31:30   Give me that. Give me that," and so I had one of them, I think. She took them all, so don't listen

00:31:37   to me. Listen to Lauren. They taste good. They don't taste like weird microwave, and the ones

00:31:46   with chicken, where Lauren has specifically said to me, "I do not like reheating chicken in the

00:31:50   microwave," but guess what? The Factor meal she took had chicken, and she reheated them,

00:31:55   and they were great because I've had them too, and they are really, really good. The ingredients

00:31:59   are quality. It's not like you're getting this weird TV dinner of salty stuff that doesn't look

00:32:06   quite right, and it's just not like that. It is remarkable. I can't say this enough, how good the

00:32:14   ingredients are, and you don't realize how low your expectations are for a cold, microwavable

00:32:20   lunch until you have Factor, and you're like, "Oh, it turns out the bar was lower than I thought,"

00:32:27   because this is good. It helps you see in color. It's all black and white. You set it low, and

00:32:32   you're like, "It's edible. I didn't die," and then you have a Factor meal, and you're like, "Oh,

00:32:37   those were not any good, were they? They weren't. They were very bad," so it'll ruin you for other

00:32:43   meals. But that's fine because you can get 50% off. Factor is available. Yeah, that's right.

00:32:48   factormeals.com/upgrade50 and the code UPGRADE50, and you'll get 50% off. That is the code UPGRADE50

00:32:55   at factormeals.com/upgrade50, and you'll get yourself 50% off our thanks to Factor for the

00:33:01   support of this show and all of Real AFM. It's time for the B-Tails.

00:33:09   VisionOS 1.1 is now available and brings of it. This is the first major update to VisionOS since

00:33:20   it was released, and it comes with it. I guess the headlining feature is new personas. Have you

00:33:27   set up a new persona for yourself? I have. I set up a new persona in 1.1. It looks better.

00:33:33   It looks better. It looks more like me. It looks a little bit better. I can't really even quantify

00:33:38   it other than to say I think the expressions. Also, they have the new capture. There's a new

00:33:42   accessibility capture, which I used, which allows you to capture your face without holding it up.

00:33:48   You can put it on an eye-level surface, which is really nice because then you're capturing me while

00:33:54   I'm gripping a thing in front of my face, and I feel like my facial expressions and my arms and

00:34:03   everything is a little more relaxed when I'm not holding that thing and trying to get it to point

00:34:09   right at me. So yeah, better capture and better capture process. I had to do mine three times,

00:34:16   though, because the first two times I did it, my eyes were looking in different directions.

00:34:22   That's not a thing that I have, but that was happening, but I fixed it. What I would say,

00:34:30   and I think I've seen this in mine and in others too, the skin tones seem warmer.

00:34:37   I think that is a key difference that I'm seeing. I think it was better too. I think the variation

00:34:45   on the face of the skin tone was better, and they say that among the things that's better is skin

00:34:50   tone and makeup too. I think that they're maybe doing a little more attentiveness to some details

00:34:57   on faces that maybe got a pass in the 1.0 personas. My mouse still doesn't move, though.

00:35:03   They did not fix the mouse thing. So anybody who's rolling this out in the enterprise,

00:35:09   which I guess is happening, there's MDM now, so these can be managed devices. A bunch of stuff

00:35:14   that's in the iPhone and the iPad that they're like, "Nope, not for 1.0. Nope." And so that and

00:35:19   the iMessage contact key verification is in there now. For something that they have not added that

00:35:25   is driving me mad, no profiles in Safari. No profiles in Safari. So I can't get my tabs

00:35:32   hidden away from me in my other profiles. I have already followed the feedback on that. I was a

00:35:39   good boy, but I haven't gotten that. It's weird. They're syncing up features, but not all the

00:35:44   features have made it, which is kind of funny. I wonder if they're like, "How do we do that

00:35:47   interface?" Anyway, because the tabs are kind of weird in Safari anyway. Mac Virtual Display is

00:35:53   supposedly improved. I haven't really noticed, but I've heard people say that it is more stable and

00:35:57   clearer than it was, which is nice. This is the new Safari Phil Snappier, right? I'm sure it's

00:36:05   clearer now. I'm sure it's clearer. Captive Wi-Fi network, so if you're in a hotel or something or

00:36:09   in an office building somewhere and you have to log in and agree to their terms. I reported that

00:36:15   to Apple where, I think I said this in the show, where I couldn't, when I was trying to do the

00:36:18   setup, I couldn't connect to the Wi-Fi network because I needed to do the capture portal. But

00:36:24   then my wonderful wife, Adina, was able to convince the hotel to give me their direct

00:36:30   Wi-Fi. That was how I got it set up. And that's how you got in. That's right. The context there,

00:36:35   you talked about the Wi-Fi and then your helpful wife, Adina, and I almost read that as Wi-Fi.

00:36:40   My Wi-Fi, Adina. Wi-Fi, Adina. Yeah, Wi-Fi, Adina. We'll just run it right in there. Amazing.

00:36:45   And those environments still say "coming soon" too, which I love. I love that. Soon is not yet.

00:36:51   Virtual keyboard is supposed to be better. I haven't seen that it's better. It's still awful.

00:36:56   And you can delete apps from the home view now. Yay! Apple's apps. Yeah, you can take Apple's

00:37:03   apps out. I immediately got rid of mail. Goodbye mail, I don't want you. No, I use mail. That's

00:37:10   one of the ones I use, which is kind of weird. I use Spark. Goodbye mail. But anyway, it's nice

00:37:16   to see that there's an update, that it actually has some things in it. I don't know how many

00:37:20   more of these are in the line before they just are entirely focused on 2.0, but I would hope

00:37:24   that they're going to keep going with the things that are like the real pain points to get us

00:37:28   through. Because again, 2.0, while we might see a beta of it in June, will not ship until September.

00:37:34   And I think leaving this thing out even at 1.1 until September for people who are not

00:37:40   brave. And I mean, there is an argument that if you're brave enough to be on the Vision Pro,

00:37:44   you can be brave enough to be on the developer beta, but I don't think that's fair. I think

00:37:48   you need to keep pushing the 1.0 features forward a little bit further too. I agree too.

00:37:54   One of the things that I mentioned previously is I was, you know, because the window management

00:37:59   is a problem. Like if the device turns off, which my device loves to turn off like every day,

00:38:04   you lose your windows. And something I was hoping to get was, you know, I could maybe

00:38:08   make a shortcut to at least open the apps that I use a lot and then I can move them where I want

00:38:12   them. But the open app shortcut action would just open an app and then close it and then open the

00:38:18   next app and then close it. Federico found that that has now been fixed. So the open app shortcut

00:38:23   works as you would imagine, where it will just open a bunch of apps and stack them on top of

00:38:27   each other, but then you can move them around. So now you could build a shortcut to open your

00:38:32   favorite apps and then you could just move them where you need them to be. That is at least an

00:38:39   improvement that they fixed that and I'm pleased that they did. I mean clearly everybody who has

00:38:44   written about or talked about VisionOS has talked about how window management is, I mean,

00:38:51   I would say it's a work in progress, but that's not fair because it's not. It's like there needs

00:38:57   to be some because right now window management is literally there are windows. You can move them

00:39:01   around. You can open them and close them. Good luck, which is okay as a start, but like yes,

00:39:06   it would be really nice if you could save a workspace. You could save a set of windows.

00:39:10   Have you been in this position where you've lost a window? You know the app is running,

00:39:17   but you can't find the window and you can hold the crown down to bring it to the front,

00:39:21   but it brings all of them to the front and then you have to relay out all of your things. There's

00:39:27   no like can I find that app and bring it here? Because what I find funny with that too is like

00:39:32   there are some apps that support multiple windows, but you can't like open a new window if you can't

00:39:38   see the current one. Yeah, absolutely. I've also run into with one app I ran into a situation where

00:39:45   it was one of these time battery widget apps where I could set it and then I could never get back to

00:39:51   the screen. I think they did an update to fix it, but like I could never get back to the screen

00:39:55   where you set it because the screen where you said it was the opening window, but once it had

00:40:00   a window open it remembered that that was the clock and the battery count and you could never

00:40:06   get back to the setup screen. I was like ah 1.0 OS here we are beta apps 1.0 OS it's fine,

00:40:13   but it all needs to get better. I'm not expecting like a new interface model in 1.x right? I'm not,

00:40:21   but there are some things like the open at least the open app shortcut does what

00:40:25   you want it to do. It would be nice if some of those coming soon environments actually came

00:40:30   soon. It's still soon, but not yet. But not what what are you waiting for? Why? I want my beach.

00:40:36   You know missives from the sun are fine, but that's a reference to an upgrade plus episode.

00:40:45   Missives from the sun that are puscular and on the in the out in the distance in Joshua Tree are

00:40:52   great, but like I want my beach. I want my beach. Bring me the beach. I want to be Ken or I want to

00:40:57   work as Ken. That's there you go that that's in the in the dream house. Yeah let's do it.

00:41:02   Room around up time. Saddle up partner. Yee-haw. So many segments today. Wow. So many segments.

00:41:09   Look this is we're a segment show. Are we reacting to the death of Upshift where we're like

00:41:15   we have to run into the arms of our other segments. There was a different version of today's show that

00:41:21   brought Upshift back, but I got no because there was that big Bloomberg article right and I was

00:41:26   thinking about talking about it but then decided I didn't want to talk about it anymore. So that

00:41:30   we did it. We did it. It's it's in the ground. We did it. And but yes look we're a very segment

00:41:35   focused show. I think that's part of the joy of upgrade. I'm sure some people don't but I love it.

00:41:41   As of today's recording there are still no OLED iPad Pros. It was rumored that they would come

00:41:48   this month. There have been differing rumors. Some people saying that it would happen last week,

00:41:53   this week. Mark Gurman is saying later on in the month. So we are now on iPad Pro Watch over here.

00:41:59   I guess so. I guess we are. I mean I was checking the Apple newsroom on the hour every hour for

00:42:05   three hours today because as I said to Jason before we started recording I didn't prep half

00:42:10   of this show until like 20 minutes. This is like an hour before we started because I didn't want

00:42:15   to throw away work which I've done before. So I will now be doing that every Monday in case all

00:42:21   the iPad Pros appear. I've got a few Ming-Chi Kuo reports for you today. Okay. Because I'm busy.

00:42:28   Ming-Chi Kuo is reporting that Apple has canceled its plans for a micro LED screen. Micro led?

00:42:34   Micro LED screen in the Apple Watch Ultra for "the foreseeable future due to costs being too

00:42:41   high to be economically viable." It appears from Kuo's reporting that this is actually the case for

00:42:47   all micro LED projects from Apple. As of right now they can't seem to make the technology work

00:42:52   for them and be cost effective but they hope to return to it at some point. As a reminder,

00:42:58   because I had to look this up again today, micro LED tends to be better than OLED in brightness,

00:43:03   color, and contrast. So it's like a step past OLED. Yeah, I think this follows a report that a

00:43:10   supplier of micro LED had announced that they had lost a major supply or a major contract. Yep,

00:43:20   that was the report. And then Ming-Chi Kuo rolls in and goes "yeah that was Apple." And Kuo also

00:43:25   added that like he is had the understanding that there are people at Apple that got laid off who

00:43:31   were working on micro LED. Yeah, I mean this is honestly a speculative thing, right? Where you're

00:43:39   like "I think this could beat OLED and that we could take this and this could be our new

00:43:43   technology." And then you go down the road a few years and you say "no it's not." Right? Like that's

00:43:49   going to happen. You investigate stuff, it doesn't all pan out. And it sounds like this just didn't

00:43:53   pan out or didn't, to use a slightly different metaphor, pencil out where they looked at the

00:43:58   cost and they said "this doesn't make sense to do this." So yeah. At some point they will get back

00:44:04   to it. It makes sense, right? Like it's an advancement technology, but it doesn't look like

00:44:10   now is going to be the time that they get it done. So moving on, Kuo also has a couple of reports

00:44:18   about the Vision Pro. First off that he expects Apple will not make any significant hardware

00:44:22   upgrades until at least 2027 for the Vision Pro. He expects a modification of the current model

00:44:29   in late 2025 or early 2026, but his focus would be on reducing manufacturing cost and production

00:44:35   efficiency. It may not be a public revision at all unless they make a price cut. So they may

00:44:41   change the way they make the thing to make it more cost effective, but it's not like Vision Pro

00:44:47   with an M3 in it or whatever. It'd be more like Rev B, right? And really you wouldn't know unless

00:44:55   they were like "hey the Vision Pro is 2500 now" or "it's 3000" or whatever. We didn't do this,

00:45:01   it's a little too early for the draft of the ages, but I wonder what chip will be in the

00:45:08   next hardware, you know, actual hardware revision, not a stealth revision, of the Vision Pro? Is it

00:45:15   going to be like the M5? M6? I mean it's got an M2 in it now. M2 in it now, so if they made it today

00:45:23   it would be an M3 and so you maybe would say M3 until 2025. So then maybe, yeah, maybe M7?

00:45:31   M6 maybe? I don't think it's on. Yeah. Is it going to be every year for the M series? Maybe?

00:45:37   M6, M7? I mean it's just going to be interesting. If this is true you're going to have a Vision Pro

00:45:42   running the M2 replaced by a Vision Pro running the M567. It's a long, it's a long way to go,

00:45:51   it's all I'm saying. Yeah, we're gonna find out. Yeah, you know what though? We could talk about

00:45:56   this later on. Less of an impact maybe now. Yeah, well I was gonna say I think one of the reasons,

00:46:02   by the way, that that's okay is I think there are a bunch of things that Apple wants to bring to the

00:46:09   M series that they already put in the R1 coprocessor. Yeah. That there's stuff that's

00:46:16   like, oh this will be better at this and it's like, yeah, we had to build a whole chip for that.

00:46:20   Yeah, we did it already. Now we can put it in here. Yeah. I do wonder though if they,

00:46:24   maybe they had that discussion about like, could we slide an M4 in here in 2026 or an M3 or are

00:46:31   we going to keep it at the M2? But I've been expecting for a while now that Vision Pro is just

00:46:36   going to be what it's going to be for a while, right? This is not a quick iterate product because

00:46:41   it's so far out in the future in terms of what's in it. It's so sort of unreal already. It could be

00:46:47   one of those things where they're not even currently pushing it as far as it could be

00:46:53   pushed, right? And so like there are efficiencies that they could make within the software, for

00:46:58   example, to make it run better and like it's a very powerful machine maybe for what it's doing,

00:47:01   we don't know, but we'll find out by 2026 and see how it's running at that point.

00:47:07   Quo also reports that Apple is still on track to launch the Vision Pro outside of the US before

00:47:13   WWDC. Quo said that US sales have slowed down significantly currently, but that Apple have

00:47:19   sold between 200 to 250,000 units, which outperformed their estimate of 150 to 200,000

00:47:26   in this period. It's expected that other English speaking nations will see the Vision Pro first

00:47:31   because that's just the easiest to do, but MacRumors is reporting that Apple is currently

00:47:35   working on localizing Vision OS into French, German, Italian, and Spanish. So there are your

00:47:42   next places. You'll probably see the UK, Australia, Canada, and then the rest.

00:47:48   MacRumors is reporting via Trendforce that server manufacturer Supermicro is "aggressively

00:47:56   expanding its capability to try and secure an order from Apple to assist with their upcoming

00:48:01   AI needs." It's expected Apple may be ordering around 20,000 servers this year for iOS 18,

00:48:08   looking to spend over $4 billion. I include this, I mean, it doesn't really say like, you know,

00:48:13   this is Supermicro trying to do it, but the server industry is expecting Apple will be making some

00:48:18   kind of order. This, I feel like kind of answers the question of it's not all going to be on device.

00:48:24   Right. Oh yeah, for sure. Well, there's a lot of processing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely,

00:48:29   I think they're going to put as much on device as they can, but you're going to have a whole

00:48:33   bunch of stuff that just benefits dramatically from it being in the cloud. And that's what I

00:48:37   would want to see as a hybrid model, because if they're going to do it on a device, they won't be

00:48:40   able to compete, but like I want there to be a split. And this is an indication at least that

00:48:44   there will be that split, which I think is important if Apple really wants to make a good

00:48:48   run at this. There needs to be some stuff that's done on the web. So there you go. Supermicro,

00:48:53   the company mentioned in that Bloomberg big hack story. You know, I was thinking about,

00:48:57   I was thinking about it, but what happened there? All right. Here's an interesting one.

00:49:03   According to Reuters, Apple is hiring Olivia Allaire Dalton, deputy assistant to the US

00:49:10   president and white house principal deputy press secretary. Bolton is expected to be taking a

00:49:16   senior communications role at Apple. Maybe Apple needs somebody who knows how to communicate with

00:49:22   governments. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I, you know what? I didn't consider that. Yes. Maybe that's what

00:49:28   this is for. Wow. Could she be leading their efforts to communicate on the government and

00:49:36   regulatory side of the business? Maybe as a senior communications person who might could maybe could

00:49:42   send better emails to people like Tim Sweeney. Maybe. I don't know. This could be for like

00:49:47   external, but also maybe Apple is preparing for these fights in America too, which I do feel like

00:49:53   it's going to happen. Uh, Dalton worked for, has worked for Joe Biden for 20 years, apparently.

00:50:00   So, okay. So you got to expect this person knows some people. Oh yeah. And I'm going to say now

00:50:08   that means Tim Cook, you can just, you can stay a CEO for another 20 years. That's 20 years,

00:50:13   20 more years. And according to business insider, Apple is also hiring Joseph Cady,

00:50:18   who is an advertising executive from NBC universal to join a team working on global ad sales at Apple

00:50:24   TV+. Uh, these reports would seem to indicate Apple is working potentially on an ads tier for

00:50:29   TV+. I wrote a story on Mac world last year, thanks to my, you know, downstream conversations

00:50:38   and all that, and seeing how the way that this works, that it was inevitable that Apple would

00:50:44   put ads on a tier of Apple TV+. Inevitable. Literally everybody else is doing it, including

00:50:51   companies that said they would never Disney did it. Did it. Netflix did it. Like Amazon did it.

00:50:57   Amazon was the last where I was like, well, maybe because of the it's an ecosystem play. Maybe. Nope.

00:51:01   Amazon put ads on there. Now I'm not sure what this means in terms of Apple TV+ being like,

00:51:08   are they going to make everybody who's currently on Apple TV+ play, pay more for an ad free version,

00:51:15   which is what Amazon did, or are what they, are they going to make a bunch of Apple content

00:51:20   available for free or for some smaller price or tied into other Apple services, but with ads,

00:51:28   but the ad, what, what for the shorthand for people who are our listeners who hate ads,

00:51:33   I will say is an analysis of the businesses of streaming have largely found that you make more

00:51:41   money per user from an ad ad tier than from a no ad tier, which is why all the no ad tiers are

00:51:49   getting their prices raised because Netflix discovered that at their old price tiers,

00:51:54   they made more money from the people watching ads than they did from the people who didn't

00:51:58   and were paying more, which is bad news for people who pay more like me to not watch ads.

00:52:03   Cause all of that's more expensive now because they need, it doesn't make sense, right? It

00:52:06   doesn't make sense that you would have, you'd be making less money from your premium subscribers.

00:52:11   So, and, and if you, if you lose them, you'll probably figure you'll lose them to the ad tier

00:52:16   where you're making more money anyway. So I think Apple can't, Apple can't let this go by.

00:52:21   They, they, they can't. I, I, I think one of Apple's struggles is that TV plus is a largely invisible

00:52:28   thing. When you talk to people out there, like it is a very small service and it's had some

00:52:34   successes like Ted Lasso, but it is, uh, it is small and that this might be a way for them

00:52:41   to get that content out there to a much larger audience and then upsell them on the paid product.

00:52:46   If they made this free or really cheap. They need to do it. You know, I talk about this a lot,

00:52:53   but my favorite podcast, the town, which is about, uh, Hollywood, there is the,

00:52:57   basically everybody that comes on that show seems to see some variation of it's good content,

00:53:01   but nobody's watching it. Like Apple needs that there, the viewership is very low for, uh,

00:53:08   for TV plus stuff and except for Ted Lasso. So they, they need to find a way to get more

00:53:15   people to watch the content. So having a easy to use free tier, like I hear people like in my life

00:53:21   talk about it a lot where it's like, I, you know, Oh, I've, I've referenced the TV plus thing. Like,

00:53:27   Oh, you know, I watched had less have been and canceled it. And so maybe I'll come back to it

00:53:31   later on. Like people did dip out, but yeah. And it's too bad. It's also too bad. Right. Because

00:53:36   those of us who have it and I've seen like, it's got a lot of really great stuff. Like it's batting

00:53:39   average is very good. There's a lot of really great stuff. Like if I, if somebody came to me

00:53:44   and said, I've never done Apple TV plus, and I'm thinking of getting it, what should I watch? I'd

00:53:48   be like, Oh boy, like all the seasons of for all mankind, all the seasons of Ted Lasso, Ted Lasso,

00:53:54   both the foundation seasons, silo, slow horse. Oh my God. There's so much stuff. Yep. Uh,

00:54:02   they're like, there's a lot of stuff there. Sure. Yeah. I've heard that. Is it masters of air?

00:54:09   Is that what it's called? Yeah. I've seen mixed reviews of it. So, I mean, that's for dads who

00:54:14   want to see something about world war II. It's great. Dad's need shows too. Dad's need shows.

00:54:19   That's nice. Well, they should start with slow horses though, but then yes, they can watch

00:54:22   masters of air. There's a lot of good content on TV plus, but it has a very tiny audience.

00:54:27   And that's not great for Apple because they actually do want to have like, they're paying

00:54:32   a lot of money for this content. If there's another way for them to monetize it, that will

00:54:35   increase the amount of money they make. They should do it. So, um, I, I, I suspect we'll get

00:54:41   a free or cheap Apple TV tier with ads and not the one that we're all on now. Um, and if they do that,

00:54:48   I'll be very sad. And I think that's a bad decision, right? Cause I think they're struggling

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00:57:19   So you have published your M3 MacBook Air review. I have. And I wanted to talk about a

00:57:27   couple of things with you. Sure. Really does it feel any different to the M2 MacBook Air?

00:57:33   No it's functionally identical. Yeah. I think if you're I mean it's incrementally faster on

00:57:40   multi-core like I can do the number I did the numbers yeah it's incrementally faster on multi-core

00:57:45   17% or something it's good it's a nice update and you know so the GPUs are better the ray tracing

00:57:52   like if you're playing games that have a ray you know ray tracing that is going to make a huge

00:57:55   difference. I do love to trace those rays. You got to trace the rays if you want to chase the rays.

00:58:01   Man dude. But yeah I mean I had somebody ask me this on social media it was like oh but

00:58:08   does it actually feel do you sit down with it and go whoa and like I have an M2 midnight MacBook

00:58:14   Air and I have an M3 review unit midnight MacBook Air and I migrated one to the other and I was

00:58:19   using the M3 and I was like okay I mean it's like it feels like home it's the same. The point here

00:58:26   is again now don't upgrade from the M2 to the M3 unless there's the one feature there's the one

00:58:32   feature that if you want that feature you should do it but other than that you can M2 is fine like

00:58:38   for the M1 it's an interesting argument I think the M1 Air is still great and fine but you know

00:58:43   you could if you if you're gonna hand it down like for me I think about the M3 and I think the only

00:58:49   way I would buy an M3 Air is if I do a hand-me-down right if I if I take the M2 or or Lauren's M1 and

00:58:56   I give that to let's say Jamie so that she can do more video work for upgrade as our social media

00:59:02   expert that I might do but I'm not gonna you know other than a roll down like the M1 is great like

00:59:11   the M1 Air is great so it's really still honestly about people who are on Intel and are like I can't

00:59:18   I can't go and in fact that that ties in to one the one like surprising new feature of the M3 Air

00:59:25   which is that the the ability to drive two external displays with the lid closed which I know some

00:59:31   people who are on Intel that's what they wanted is the the run two external displays maybe with

00:59:37   a lid open sorry you can't do that but with the lid closed I mean two displays is the limit of

00:59:41   the base M chips it's been that way there are good reasons for it they would have to add it would add

00:59:46   size and cost to the chip and it's not what they're solving for if you want to drive three

00:59:50   displays you should get a better chip than that that's just bottom line and I'm okay with that

00:59:55   choice on Apple's part it was always frustrating that you could run your MacBook Air and lid closed

01:00:00   and still not drive a second display it was very frustrating so I'm glad that they've addressed

01:00:04   that and I did haul the Studio B studio display out and put it on my desk here with my other studio

01:00:13   display and I put it in like a v-shaped configuration so I had display all around me

01:00:18   and then I texted Casey and I said I don't know how light how you live like this because it's

01:00:23   just not for me it's too many things too many pixels too many k what I do here at my recording

01:00:29   desk I have one display in portrait where I have I have audio hijack and zoom like I have all of

01:00:39   the apps that are recording on that display so it's always visible no matter what I'm looking

01:00:44   I can always look over and be like yes I am recording so that you know that's what I have it

01:00:49   for that's nice yeah I just it's never really been for me but I did I work that way there's some

01:00:54   quirks one of them one of them can be scaled and the other one like scaled up to like more space

01:01:00   and the other one really can't and I wonder if that's just a function of the capability of like

01:01:06   the the you know we can do one at 5k and one in 6k and so it may be like that that's too many pixels

01:01:12   because it has to put the put the the scaled mode it's probably like drawing a larger one and then

01:01:18   scaling it down and it can't something is going on there that was surprised me a little but like

01:01:22   I was able to run it at sort of standard display mode with those two displays and you don't need

01:01:27   more space you've got more space you've got two monitors now how much space do you need you monsters

01:01:31   Casey's response when I said I don't know how you live like this to send a picture of his three

01:01:36   displays and I was like god just go away but um but yeah I was able to do it and it was great so

01:01:41   if you're that person who has especially if you've been hanging out on intel and being like I can't

01:01:46   give up my multiple displays I hope this will satisfy you because this is uh it you know I

01:01:54   think it's pretty good I never really liked I tried to use a an open laptop display with an

01:01:59   external display for a while I never really liked it because it was like what where is the I had it

01:02:04   on like a riser and it was tilted and it's still like the keyboard is there it still felt weird

01:02:09   anyway if you're that person that's a great reason to get it also can I tell my story about how I

01:02:15   spent a lot of money and about four hours of the one day I had to write the article on one paragraph

01:02:21   of my review can I do that can we pause just for one second okay I just have one I have a couple

01:02:26   of things I wanted to ask you about okay display thing all right is there any thing that you are

01:02:32   aware of for why they could not enable this on the m2 MacBook Air so there's some stuff going around

01:02:40   about how they did make a change in the m2 that allowed the uh the system to so in the m1 the

01:02:47   system it was hardwired essentially into the display and they and this this story um the

01:02:53   atp talked about it a lot the um last week the the story is basically that um even in the mac mini on

01:03:01   m1 you could only output one through thunderbolt and one through hdmi so there's like a hardwired

01:03:06   port they changed the design in m2 apparently uh that enough that the mac mini could output both

01:03:13   on thunderbolt they didn't have to go through the hdmi um but the m2 laptops didn't ever pick up

01:03:19   that feature so the question is the sort of conspiracy question is could they do a firmware

01:03:24   update for the m2 to enable the same feature yeah that's my that's what I wonder because they're

01:03:30   doing it with the m3 they're doing that with a macbook pro because it would seem that they did not

01:03:34   build into the m3 the ability for this to happen because otherwise that macbook pro would have had

01:03:38   that feature right like if it was specifically built in except except they did sort of build

01:03:43   into the m2 this other aspect of it yeah but they didn't enable it and then they didn't enable it on

01:03:48   the m3 macbook pro but they did then enable it and say that they will back port it to the m3 macbook

01:03:54   pro i i don't know the answer i think there are two scenarios that i just want to say for all the

01:04:01   people out there who are like you know conspiracy theorists i'm gonna lay them both out there you

01:04:06   decide you know how is princess kate doing i don't know oh please don't bring this to my show i can't

01:04:12   handle this the people in my life it's driving me mad photos were edited my photos were edited

01:04:18   anyway here are the two scenarios here are the two scenarios scenario one is yes apple built this

01:04:24   feature into their chip in m2 and yet nefariously withheld it for the entire run of that chip

01:04:29   because reasons but now they're enabling it because reasons and uh okay i think the more

01:04:37   reasonable suggestion because they never enabled it in the m2 even though they put it there and

01:04:43   yet they've done it for the m3 i think the more reasonable suggestion is that they did that work

01:04:47   in the m2 either to push this down the line to a point where in a future model they would be

01:04:54   comfortable putting it in and turning it on or they thought they had fixed it for the macbook air

01:05:00   and then they tried it and there was something that didn't work well maybe not maybe like you

01:05:06   could do it but maybe it was not up to their standards inconsistent buggy or whatever and

01:05:11   they're like shut it down we're just not going to do it for this generation better luck next time

01:05:16   let's fix it for m3 i think i i can't like if it worked fine in m2 they would have done this when

01:05:26   they rolled out m2 and they didn't so i think it's more likely that it didn't work fine or it was

01:05:35   never intended to work on the macbook air but they were working toward where they would get with the

01:05:41   m3 it is i will admit utterly baffling that they shipped the macbook pro with m3 with this

01:05:49   limitation that they could have addressed and didn't until now or later when the firmware

01:05:56   update comes out for it that that's weird right but you know sometimes the mother just wants to

01:06:02   edit her kids faces so that they're smiling on mother's day well i happens i will leave this show

01:06:07   the show will end i will walk away from this podcast right now i'm just getting people who

01:06:13   don't understand it will be baffled people who get it will get it and it's just i'm i'm just saying

01:06:17   there are conspiracy theories out there and some of them are probably not worth thinking about

01:06:22   this what i'm saying all right so thank you for answering my question you're well partly in a way

01:06:26   that i wish you wouldn't have but let's talk about what cost you some money and time okay these

01:06:32   things have wi-fi 6e i have like hero sixes that don't support wi-fi sexy and i thought to myself

01:06:39   should i get faster wi-fi in my house like it's been a little while since i bought new heroes

01:06:48   should i do it like faster wi-fi is nice although most of the computers won't take advantage of it

01:06:52   but eventually they will okay so i bought a new hero max 7 which the box came i'm like this is

01:07:05   a very large box for one hero they're very huge they're very big it's huge it's it's giant it's

01:07:12   like the size of a dinner plate there were multiple reasons why i didn't go with like the

01:07:18   6e stuff when when i was buying stuff when we moved into our house last year partly it was cost

01:07:22   because it is much more expensive right now yes but the other was they're so much bigger and it's

01:07:27   like one of these things where at some point they will get smaller and cheaper but that point is not

01:07:32   now yeah so i decided to do it i i did it and the reason and it's fine it's it's for my work um

01:07:38   i set up the m3 macbook air and it got basically the same speed as my ethernet and i was like wow

01:07:45   okay that's great right like for me yeah faster file transfer inside the house is good but like

01:07:51   the number one thing is if i can get the same up and down to the world as i do on my ethernet

01:07:57   connected mac studio word we're living large here it was like gigabit up and down that's what i want

01:08:04   great it doesn't always work that way it was inconsistent but like i was able to get it to

01:08:08   work that way and my my macbook arim too while pretty speedy was not as speedy so i'm like okay

01:08:15   all right worth it i can talk about it i wrote a paragraph about it the problem is that i changed

01:08:21   my network configuration mike know what happens then everything breaks so my internet connection

01:08:28   broke um it turns out that the way my fiber router was set up is it was forwarding all of the traffic

01:08:36   to the mac address of the old ero that i had replaced oh god so i had to connect my a macbook

01:08:45   air via an ethernet dongle directly to the uh to the fiber router and change it to point

01:08:52   and i was like what is happening why is it not working why is it not working i could get internet

01:08:58   out but like i couldn't get any traffic back in what is happening here turns out um i figured it

01:09:04   out i set that to the new router and it didn't work so then i rebooted them both rebooted the

01:09:11   fiber router rebooted the ero didn't work rebooted unplugged everything including the other ero

01:09:17   put it all back in didn't work reset the ero remapped all of my network settings for

01:09:25   all of the like port forwarding and reservations and stuff didn't work and i was so frustrated and

01:09:34   i was like okay let's just and so i unplugged everything again left it for five minutes came

01:09:39   back plugged it in didn't work i'm like what is happening i looked i looked at the at the router

01:09:44   settings i'm like i googled for it and they're like do this it's like i did that that's what i

01:09:49   did i googled that last time i set this up why is it not working i sent it and then i did actually

01:09:54   the thing that cured this the thing that solved it which is i sent an email to ero support and i said

01:10:01   why is it that when i swapped one of your heroes for the other all of a sudden i can't get any any

01:10:07   traffic forwarding but the moment i sent it i thought to myself this isn't the ero the ero is

01:10:11   not seeing any traffic this is coming from the router the router is is still not even though

01:10:16   it's set to forward it it's still i reset the router um it still didn't work like what is

01:10:23   happening and and then and i and i uh unplugged it and replugged it four hours in i've rebooted

01:10:32   these things so many times and then i was reminded of the number one thing that i always learn and

01:10:40   then always forget about network stuff which is you know what solves network stuff mike what is it

01:10:48   time because the next time i unplugged them and re-plugged them it all worked

01:10:54   and presumably if i had done nothing other than pointed at the right thing

01:11:00   and and unplugged them and re-plugged them a few times over the course of four hours

01:11:05   after four hours because something was cached somewhere even through resets it would have just

01:11:12   started working so um and zack is saying fun with with like time to live concept like at least from

01:11:19   a network perspective uh it shouldn't be because the time to live was set to be very low i was i

01:11:26   reset the device that was forwarding to the other device it didn't matter though somewhere somewhere

01:11:31   in there in the connection between those two devices there was a thing that really wanted

01:11:37   to forward all the traffic to the wrong place and that just stayed there until suddenly it went oh

01:11:46   right this guy done solved i wasted four hours taking screenshots of the aero app so i'd remember

01:11:55   what ports were being remapped to what i'm like oh it didn't matter i just needed to wait i just

01:12:00   needed to be patient i need to leave the house for four hours anyway those four hours i could

01:12:04   have been writing a macbook air review that i wasn't but you know the wi-fi is it's really

01:12:11   fast and i think covers the house better because it's an enormous thing with many many different

01:12:16   antenna in it uh different bands so i look forward to the day that i do buy a device that has wi-fi

01:12:24   uh 6e in it because i'll it'll be fast hooray how does the uh midnight coating hold up to fingerprints

01:12:33   now okay new anodization seal the same one that's on the space black and apple's like aha it will be

01:12:40   better for fingerprints it will be like don't worry about the fingerprints i'm gonna be that

01:12:45   guy and say i have two midnight macbook areas now and let me tell you they both cover with

01:12:49   fingerprints it's fine that's i don't they don't bother me but they're also not invisible they are

01:12:55   present i wonder if maybe part of it is that the space black is lighter than the midnight they kept

01:13:02   the midnight shade is exactly the same as it was on the m2 and so i wonder if maybe one of the

01:13:07   reasons the space black on the macbook pro is not so black is because the blacker you make it the

01:13:13   worse the fingerprints look and so they did the anodization seal on a darker gray and it it doesn't

01:13:19   pick up as much the midnight macbook air even on the m3 i'm sorry like i try to say i might say that

01:13:26   it's fainter or something but really it's it's not any different i mean like for me at least i

01:13:34   was i i put fingerprints on it immediately um wiping them off seemed pretty similar to

01:13:38   maybe they wipe off a little bit better but like i'm struggling to try to give you anything here

01:13:43   other than to say in my experience it like if you if you the only thing preventing you from

01:13:49   buying an m2 macbook air is that you can't bear the fingerprints on the midnight macbook air

01:13:54   do not buy the m3 midnight macbook air because it still has fingerprints on it pretty much the same

01:14:00   sorry i know you spoke about like um speed and and that kind of stuff a little bit already but

01:14:07   there was something that i kind of really took away from the charts in your piece which is just

01:14:10   that you know there are year-over-year improvements with these m series chips but

01:14:14   apple silicon really is enforcing the idea that it's kind of like two years is what you should

01:14:19   be looking at at the like the very soonest before you would want to update yeah if you need to really

01:14:24   push it other than like very specific things in certain areas like there's the video encoding

01:14:28   stuff that went on the m2 that wasn't on the m1 so if you're doing things to like uh apple's uh

01:14:33   apple's codex uh encoding there is built in in a processor block in the m2 that wasn't there in the

01:14:39   m1 it was only in the m1 uh pro and max and ultra um and the so they're like it's got a new i think

01:14:47   it's a neural engine that has more cores or it's the newer neural engine i mean there's stuff in

01:14:51   there and the ray tracing is in there right there's stuff but unless you're a very specific use case

01:14:57   that requires these kind of updates even the m1 i mean if you're pushing if you're pushing

01:15:02   your CPUs or your GPUs uh from an m1 you will get it's it's like 30 or 40 percent faster i mean it

01:15:11   will be it'll be better i would argue that most of the people who are in that situation might want to

01:15:16   think about like a macbook pro because you're pushing it that hard because the macbook air

01:15:20   is a fanless laptop that is pretty good for most people but it's not going to do it for everybody

01:15:25   so i i don't know um it's yeah it's i would say what i said before which is coming from intel

01:15:32   then sure it's a no-brainer coming from the m1 even there i think i think i think the m1 air is

01:15:40   fine i think it's still fine so i think apple silicon um we've seen two revisions now and i

01:15:46   probably wouldn't give a strong buy recommendation to an upgrader coming from m1 even though i i like

01:15:51   the design i think the m2 air design that's now in the m3 is is really good um i i you know i like

01:15:59   the screen i like the magsafe like there are lots of reasons but again the m1 air is still a good

01:16:05   computer did you find the quote world's best consumer laptop for ai to be especially good

01:16:12   at ai tasks uh i mean no uh examples that i was given i mean like it's great in the cloud because

01:16:23   it just uses the cloud it's got a neural engine the ai task that i use the most is optimized for

01:16:28   gpu and not for neural engine um but it works i like it's entirely just it's it's no i think

01:16:36   not really any better than the m2 was it really is just that apple knows that everybody's talking

01:16:41   about ai and ai laptops and i think intel is pushing this concept of the ai laptop and apple's

01:16:46   like wait a second and and really it's that decision of like do you hover above the fray

01:16:51   or do you feel like you're getting uh beaten up about ai which apple is and therefore you're

01:16:57   going to say no no no no no no no our laptops do that too we just haven't talked about it and so

01:17:01   now we're going to talk about it but as it was i ran a whisper transcribe on them and it was faster

01:17:09   but again it was it was absolutely uh destroyed by a whisper transcode on a 40 gpu macbook pro right

01:17:18   so yeah i will make apple's argument for them a little bit and just say that like because i know

01:17:23   a lot of people have been putting fun as i put fun in now so i will now argue on the other side too

01:17:27   the majority of tasks that people are doing with ai right now are web-based tasks and the

01:17:35   macbook air is thin light great battery life yeah safari is great to use so fast wi-fi you can fast

01:17:42   wi-fi right you can make the argument that for the majority of tasks that people are actually doing

01:17:47   of ai the macbook air could well be the best laptop for this because i think it's the best

01:17:54   laptop for web browsing consumer laptop right which is because the macbook pro is yeah they're

01:17:59   basically consumers are using chat gpt consumers are not putting their own models onto a machine

01:18:05   and right there are some apps that do it for like photo stuff and there are some and there may be

01:18:09   more in the future but yes i think all of us all of us uh close focus apple people look at this and

01:18:16   we're you know we kind of laugh at it but like what they're doing here is i think apple has

01:18:20   felt like there's a perception that apple doesn't do ai which is incorrect and that they haven't

01:18:25   talked about it and that arguments have been framed around ai for laptops and for computers

01:18:31   in general and that apple is left out of the argument or is discounted and they they are afraid

01:18:38   that when somebody's weighing a purchase of an apple silicon laptop versus a an intel laptop

01:18:45   that one of the arguments that's being used against them is well this is an ai laptop apple

01:18:50   doesn't do ai and so apple's basically said okay if those are going to be the terms of the debate

01:18:55   so be it we're now going to talk about ai so ai has become essentially a check mark on a box right

01:19:01   you can't not talk about even if you check every box and and you know but you know for those who

01:19:07   don't know back when there were boxes the check mark on the box was obvious things but if you

01:19:12   didn't put it there people would think you didn't support it and so you ended up with an enormous

01:19:17   list of things with check marks next to them because you need to reassure people yes it does

01:19:22   that and ai is now a check mark for laptops so yes it's in the press release and does it change

01:19:30   the mac experience at all no not at all but it also took apple to actually start using the words

01:19:37   right yeah they were refusing to use the word apple was very much like this isn't really

01:19:43   artificial intelligence it's more like machine learning and we I was on that camp and the world

01:19:47   says yeah but we're calling it ai you're like all right i guess we're calling it that now it's just

01:19:52   look i didn't like the word app i preferred program or software and you know what at some

01:19:57   point you're like all right we're doing apps they're apps now yay apps would have rose by any

01:20:03   other name hallucinate so sweetly jason you know does anything remain missing from the macbook air

01:20:11   for you where what are the things you would like to see apple address with the macbook air that

01:20:16   they've yet to the webcam is fine i mean they're doing a lot of processing but it's still a 1080

01:20:23   webcam i would like them to put a higher resolution webcam with a larger field of view and center stage

01:20:32   but they they haven't and i know it's very thin i get it but like

01:20:35   i want there to be a better camera up there yeah um uh you know i i like i like touch id great when

01:20:43   i have used windows laptops like i have a surface go that you know is terrible but it runs some

01:20:50   windows software and uh every time i open it up it's like oh jason and it logs me in because it's

01:20:56   got face recognition and i think this dumb old windows convertible has face recognition and my

01:21:04   max don't and maybe it's bad and maybe this maybe it's not up to apple standards and all that but

01:21:08   like i feel like the real reason there's no face id on apple laptops is because they want to engineer

01:21:14   the screen part to be so thin that the sensors don't fit in there and they can't or more

01:21:19   accurately they can't reuse their sensors from the iphone and the ipad and therefore they just

01:21:25   don't bother and there should be face id on mac laptops and and and honestly and on mac desktops

01:21:31   like on on uh or on the studio display right like there should be there should be face id on the mac

01:21:37   and they're just gonna say this no one's gonna like it jason but i'm gonna say it all right

01:21:41   you ready this is gonna be very unpopular but i'm gonna say it i would take to get a better camera

01:21:48   and face id i would take a camera bump on a laptop whoa i'd take it i want them that bad i have

01:21:55   camera bumps on my phone and i'm fine with it put a put a camera bump on the laptop give me the

01:22:01   features yeah i said it good good for you i will take the bullet you know yeah uh you know you can

01:22:09   you can you can flog me on social media it's fine so you put a list in here and i actually this is

01:22:14   what i was going to say so thank you for channeling me or we're in agreement on this but the other

01:22:18   thing that's out there that you put in here that's absolutely true i feel like at this point we're

01:22:22   on the same wavelength is that yeah we we we we lose track of it and every now and then we mention

01:22:28   it but i'm just going to say it again there's a whole conversation that we've had here many many

01:22:31   times before but it needs to be said again which is uh you know what would be great especially when

01:22:36   my wi-fi was broken and i was trying to figure out whether things were reachable from the outside or

01:22:41   not and i had to use my iphone which was not ideal for setting settings in a web page cellular option

01:22:47   on laptops is is i i keep thinking that they it feels to me now like they're just trying to put

01:22:54   it off until they can integrate cellular into their chips which keeps getting kicked down the

01:22:59   road but like i find cellular and my ipad so useful and people always say i'm gonna say it

01:23:06   here because every time we mention this people like oh you can just tether i hate tethering

01:23:10   does my phone hot it kills the battery it's inconsistent or you've got a wire attached to

01:23:17   another thing i don't i i don't like it i have a cellular ipad i'm very happy i have to connect

01:23:24   to tethering every three times to get it to work one time this is like oh this is constant for me

01:23:29   you know it's like you connect it's like doesn't work connect doesn't work connect oh yeah it works

01:23:33   now it's a real good enough option which is like oh there's this thing that's kind of quirky and

01:23:37   strange but it exists and therefore you shouldn't need anything more and the answer is no we we

01:23:42   deserve better mac users deserve better mac users deserve to have cellular options on the laptops

01:23:48   just like ipad users have and uh and get on it like again like this should be in there i'm sorry

01:23:55   it should be in there as an option and i don't want to hear yeah i don't hear about tethering

01:23:58   and i don't want to hear about well they would have to pay a fee i don't care so they have they

01:24:02   probably have to pay a thousand dollars but like put give me the option give me the option of having

01:24:07   cellular on a laptop it would be great and i know that there's os things but they have been making

01:24:12   progress on the os side in controlling data usage by runaway you know apps they're doing more there

01:24:19   and i would also say you know what if you're that concerned about data usage get an unlimited plan

01:24:24   but like live get me the option let me have the option of putting a mac on cellular via some means

01:24:30   other than uh connecting to an example give us what we deserve cell radios and camera bumps

01:24:36   that's what we deserve all right just give us what we deserve on our laptops but all in all

01:24:41   m3 mac will care good laptop right good laptop yeah because the m2 was great and this is just

01:24:48   that but a little more recent so it's the latest model of the m2 if you remember from the mac draft

01:24:54   many people said m2 macbook air best mac i love it and so this is just that again and there was

01:25:01   a whole like there's the there's the discourse going around and like oh i i miss the wedge design

01:25:07   i have no time for this discourse i have no time for it i i don't either like i mean sure people

01:25:13   are nostalgic for for all sorts of stuff that is in the past and gone but this is this is i like

01:25:18   this design better like it's great if you want to keep the design of a 10 year old laptop that's

01:25:24   great it still works use it you know what i mean like we don't have to keep making new ones you

01:25:30   want an old laptop so bad use the old laptop but new laptop better than old laptop that's that's

01:25:36   what i say i agree if you enjoy this show and would like more of this show there's a very easy

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01:26:52   it is time for ask upgrade questions

01:26:57   kevin writes in and says have either of you tried facetime on apple tv i tried it for the first time

01:27:05   this weekend and i was blown away by how good the experience with continuity camera was

01:27:10   i have okay i've done zoom and facetime on apple tv do you do it a lot i do it some although i will

01:27:18   say it's a little telling that um that we didn't last night we did our zoom with lauren's family

01:27:26   and we just did it on an ipad sitting on the table instead um there's two reasons for that one is i

01:27:33   didn't want to go get the camera mount and attach it and connect it and do all of those things and

01:27:37   we were doing a bunch of other stuff and watching the oscars and making dinner and it was just

01:27:40   another thing um and the other thing is sound honestly which is i feel like when when the audio

01:27:47   is coming out of the tv far away and the microphone is on the phone far away that you end up sort of

01:27:52   like shouting and then there's room echo and it's not it cannot be as necessarily as good some of

01:27:58   that i think facetime is better at this and the zoom strangely because zoom does this all the time

01:28:03   for other zooms is maybe lacking a little bit there and maybe it will get better over time

01:28:08   but i found that that was a little echoey and that people were complaining about how we sounded which

01:28:12   is like that's not acceptable um so so it's a work in progress there i will say again apple or

01:28:21   one of its partners who you know if apple doesn't want to do it sometimes they're like oh we'll have

01:28:26   bell can do it or whatever they need somebody needs to make a continuity camera right because

01:28:34   there's no usb c on the apple tv anymore there's no usb on the apple tv anymore they took it off

01:28:42   so you can't just plug in a webcam to it and use that you have to use continuity camera so i would

01:28:47   like somebody to make a continuity camera that i can leave plugged in sitting on top of my tv so

01:28:54   that whenever we get a facetime while we're watching tv for my daughter my son other members

01:28:58   of my family i can just say yes and boop it pops up on apple tv but um now it's like oh good your

01:29:06   phone and move it over here and like i just don't want to do it so um and we could like use continuity

01:29:12   camera like on down on the table and look at the tv but then we're looking above the camera which

01:29:17   is also weird and not ideal so so my answer is i think this is a really good feature and i think

01:29:22   center stage looks really good with the iphone camera and i think it works really well and i

01:29:27   love the angle it gives where you can see us and we're sitting on the couch and it feels like a

01:29:30   sci-fi movie and i like it a lot but i've had some audio problems especially with zoom and i hate the

01:29:36   fact that i have to go through all the trouble of getting it and balancing it my phone falls off

01:29:39   because i didn't balance it right and i'm like i'm gonna break my phone trying to set up continuity

01:29:44   camera so i want there to be a continuity camera sold by somebody that i can leave plugged in

01:29:50   sitting on top of my tv please this isn't what you're asking for but i just wanted to put it

01:29:55   in here because i saw it i don't know why i find it funny but i do the bell can have an apple tv

01:30:00   like a tv focused uh mount magsafe mount thing now where you can put it on top of the tv or stick it

01:30:09   to the wall or whatever um i just find that funny i don't know why but it's funny to me you know i

01:30:15   haven't i have not used it and i had not considered which i have that mount it's good okay oh yeah the

01:30:20   belkin it's just there it's their mount for it's mount for tv essentially right it's for apple tv

01:30:26   4k but like it's it maybe it's a slightly different version of the same mount but it

01:30:30   looks just like the mount that i have that goes on the studio display i mean yes it's it's it's

01:30:36   fine stuck to the wall this one which is what makes it oh okay well that's that's that's nice

01:30:41   i guess mounting bracket for okay the keyhole mounts and mounting bracket added for added

01:30:45   stability that's that's good um but again then you got to still put your phone on it right like

01:30:51   and it just sits up there otherwise and i just i kind of want there to just be a camera up there

01:30:55   that would be a lot nicer i don't know have you used this at all i have not because

01:30:59   okay um i didn't have a way to do it that made sense uh especially with the way that we have

01:31:05   things set up like we have our tv mounted to the wall right and so like ah yes it's just like how

01:31:09   would i even do this and then it's like i'm just gonna put like the phone or the ipad in front of

01:31:13   me i'll just talk to the ipad that's in front of me which is i've been doing for years exactly and

01:31:17   so like there i do see the benefit of this product but there are some weird places i'd never even

01:31:23   considered the thing about like if it's with your phone and your phone's all the way over there if

01:31:28   you have that kind of living room which i know you do you have quite a long living room how are they

01:31:32   hearing you like with the phone uh yeah it's a good feature it is a good feature but it's not

01:31:38   one that i've used i i think i think it's only going to get better i think you you got to do a

01:31:42   lot of audio processing on the on the microphone to get it to isolate the voices which i think that

01:31:47   they're doing some of already like i said i think the facetime experience actually was better which

01:31:52   leads me to believe that maybe like apple really tuned this and zoom is sort of they're new on the

01:31:57   platform and i think they're maybe using things that are tuned for other environments and hopefully

01:32:02   they know that and then that they're working on it but like i really like the idea i would really

01:32:06   like to be able to make all of those calls that we do with our kids and lauren's family in the living

01:32:12   room i'd like to do those all on the tv i think that would be really nice because when i've done

01:32:17   it it's really quite pleasant but it it's not it's not all the way there it just isn't tom says do

01:32:25   you or asks do you think the ipad mini would ever get face id and the best possible screen available

01:32:32   i translate it to this basically do we ever think apple would make a pro version of the ipad mini

01:32:37   i don't i don't think so i don't think so anymore it's gonna always hover in the mid-range i think

01:32:44   it's always going to be like the small version of the mid-range ipad yes and that they it's a

01:32:49   combination of giving it a decent price for people who are price sensitive and want a smaller one

01:32:55   and a decent you know price for people who want a small ipad that that is decent specs so i think

01:33:01   it's always going to be the small mid-range ipad is like it will follow that so you know i do expect

01:33:07   it will get face id at some point in the future like i expect years into the future the ipad air

01:33:13   will get face id like yeah probably and so then it did mini would probably follow and oled maybe

01:33:21   in the future and the mini would get oled too but like i feel like it's always going to be on that

01:33:25   kind of ipad air level right while i would love a all bells and whistles version of the ipad mini

01:33:32   i don't think that's what this product is okay just don't think it is that anymore because it's

01:33:38   going to be very hard to argue uh an 800 dollar ipad mini or whatever it would be right uh that's

01:33:45   just a hard argument to make yeah ian wants to know what is your backpack of choice for commuting

01:33:51   of a larger than usual technology loadout i usually need to keep two 16-inch macbook pros

01:33:56   with me due to work my word and most bags aren't very accommodating i'm expecting neither of us and

01:34:02   i especially know if you will be able to answer this question specifically but i do have a

01:34:06   recommendation that i want to make for for myself for a larger uh technology loadout like two i don't

01:34:12   know if any bag in the world can accommodate two 16-inch macbook pros i would love to know what ian

01:34:17   needs that for as well but i want to make a recommendation for my kind of traveling bag which

01:34:23   is where i have the most technology on a daily basis i've used a bag from belroy for years now

01:34:30   called the belroy tokyo tote pack which i really love it's like a tote bag with backpack straps

01:34:35   great and i was using for travel the bag that all the nerds use the peak design right so that

01:34:42   became the the nerd bag for a while the peak design everyday backpack i got frustrated with

01:34:48   that bag over time like it has a very specific way that it wants you to use the bag and i ended

01:34:55   up not fitting with that so i went with uh a while ago another belroy bag the belroy venture ready

01:35:01   pack it's a big bag big bag and i use this when i travel and this bag is so big how big is it you

01:35:10   ask this bag is so big you can how big is it you can fit the vision pro travel case in it

01:35:17   horizontally it's that big so you know you can you can fit the vision oh oh no your vision pro

01:35:25   case you can fit my vision pro case that's cheap yeah i'm talking about my backpack the pillow the

01:35:31   apple pillow yes that can fit horizontally in this bag so you can still put more stuff in this bag

01:35:38   i would say you probably could fit two 16-inch laptops in this bag it would be tight but that

01:35:44   you would do it yeah this bag is really really nicely made i love belroy stuff and it's basically

01:35:49   what i wanted which was it's got some pockets but it's got just a very large open space where i can

01:35:55   put lots of big stuff in there so that's what i use that's what i recommend i just want to

01:35:59   recommend this bag to everyone i recommended it to our friend underscore and he bought it and he

01:36:05   loves it too so don't just take my word for it you can take underscore's word for it as well

01:36:09   and i'll i'll just say again my backpack is is a 25 year old backpack that i loved so much that

01:36:17   when it started to fall apart um i contacted the company and they're like we don't make that

01:36:22   anymore we'll send you a new one i'm like but i like this one and they sent me a new one it's

01:36:26   like i don't like this one i like this old one um so much so that i went on ebay and i found one

01:36:34   that was the same and i bought that so i'm actually not using the same backpack i've used for 25 years

01:36:39   i'm using another version someone else's backpack that i've used for 25 years our friend james

01:36:47   thompson also has this backpack and still uses it because it's great but they don't make it anymore

01:36:51   so um i can't really recommend it but i i can fit stuff in it so that's a backpack from the

01:36:59   late 90s that uh has had a vision pro in it so that's pretty cool get a time machine yeah

01:37:05   that's 1999 go to brent haven say i want your computer backpack you know what computer laptops

01:37:13   from 25 years old probably can fit two 16 inch mac because laptops were bigger so yeah it's not as

01:37:20   well padded as i think modern backpacks are but yeah i mean i could i have fit big big laptops in

01:37:26   there you're probably right because the laptops were bigger back then you probably could fit

01:37:30   so okay that's my answer then that's my final answer machine time machine or ebay if you would

01:37:37   like to send in a question that we can answer with the words time machine go to upgradefeedback.com

01:37:43   you can send us in your feedback your follow-up your ask upgrade questions and your snow talk

01:37:48   questions i just want to say as always thank you so much to our listeners who send me in so much

01:37:53   interesting stuff every week and i just want to say again i love so much that people use the form

01:37:58   the form makes my life so much better i don't want the email it's terrible to get this stuff on

01:38:03   social media the form is good form is good so thank you to people that use the form if you

01:38:09   want to find jason's work online including his wonderful uh review of the m3 macbook air go to

01:38:15   sixcolors.com you can hear jason's shows here on relay fm and the incomparable.com as well you can

01:38:22   listen to my podcast here on relay fm you can find my product work at cortexbrand.com we're

01:38:27   on social media jason is at j snow j s n e double l i am at i mike i m y k e if you want to find

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01:38:47   channel we're playing around with some fun stuff there uh thank you to our members the supporters

01:38:52   of upgrade plus thank you to delete me and factor for their support of this week's episode but most

01:38:58   of all thank you for listening we'll be back next week until then say goodbye jason snow time machine

01:39:04   mike time machine time machine you