00:00:23 ◼ ► we now have Vision Pro pre-order information. So, beginning on January 19th is when you'll
00:00:30 ◼ ► be able to order this thing. It's on sale from February 2nd. Apple says they're going to be
00:00:34 ◼ ► available in all US Apple stores starting at $3499 for a 256GB model. It will come with two
00:00:42 ◼ ► head straps, the one we've seen and another with a top strap that me and Jason got to use when we
00:00:46 ◼ ► tried them on in June. The Zeiss lenses will start at $99 for readers and $199 for prescription.
00:00:53 ◼ ► Why am I telling you this? Well, as you can imagine, big chunks of today's episode are us
00:01:02 ◼ ► So we had to pre-record this segment. We hope that you will be able to enjoy it. There's still
00:01:06 ◼ ► a bunch of stuff in there that's post the launch frame and talking about what will happen for the
00:01:11 ◼ ► rest of the year. So, still tons of stuff in there. But you will get to be able to enjoy and maybe
00:01:17 ◼ ► grade us on just how right or how wrong we are and how we thought this thing was going to be
00:01:23 ◼ ► announced. I will say from my perspective, big surprise that they announced it with a press
00:01:27 ◼ ► release and when this thing is going to be going on sale. No more information than that as of right
00:01:31 ◼ ► now. We'll be back to normal next week to break down all of this news. Please enjoy today's episode.
00:01:53 ◼ ► 2024. Today's show is brought to you by Factor, Vitaly, and Nom Nom. My name is Mike Hurley,
00:02:00 ◼ ► I'm joined by Jason Snow and welcome to the January upgrade-ies. That's what we're doing.
00:02:06 ◼ ► It's all upgrade-ies all the time. All the time? All the time. No. Let's shorten it to just like
00:02:11 ◼ ► upgrade. We'll call it just upgrade. All right, that's good. Well, we'll just award every piece of
00:02:16 ◼ ► news. That's what we're going to do now. We're back to normal now. Thank you to everybody who
00:02:23 ◼ ► checked out our December episodes. We had the weirdest scheduling of over Christmas day and
00:02:28 ◼ ► New Year's Day episode and I think we did a good job. People seem to really enjoy the episodes and
00:02:34 ◼ ► I'm very happy that we made it all work. Yeah, I mean as a Monday show we had multiple holidays
00:02:39 ◼ ► plus travel. There was a lot going on there and so we... it was weird though because we did
00:02:45 ◼ ► essentially record two and a half episodes in a two-day period. Yep. So that was... there was a lot
00:02:51 ◼ ► and then there was nothing. Yep. We have definitely part of my... recorded since December 18th which is
00:02:56 ◼ ► very strange for us. It is. It's very weird but we're back now. We are indeed. Just like that. We're back
00:03:04 ◼ ► with all of the trimmings that you expect including a Snell Talk question. This Snell Talk comes from
00:03:10 ◼ ► Ryan who wants to know, "Jason, how do you keep track of the books that you want to read?"
00:03:24 ◼ ► generally one of two things. I start with Libby which is a fantastic iOS app that works with
00:03:34 ◼ ► OverDrive which basically if you have a library card and if you don't you should get one for
00:03:40 ◼ ► your local library you can do ebooks from your library and Libby is the interface for that and
00:03:47 ◼ ► if you have multiple libraries and you may find that there are multiple libraries that you're
00:03:50 ◼ ► allowed to... you don't... you're not limited. It's not like voting where you can only vote in one place.
00:03:55 ◼ ► You can actually sign up for multiple libraries and sometimes there are even reciprocal
00:03:59 ◼ ► library agreements. I actually am logged into four different library systems in my Libby
00:04:03 ◼ ► which is a little confusing but I'm eligible for all four so I have all four. Anyway, so great thing
00:04:10 ◼ ► about that is that I hear about a book and I can search for it and if they've got it I can either
00:04:16 ◼ ► borrow it right then and read it on any device I want or I can... if it's not ready I can wishlist it
00:04:23 ◼ ► and if I'm not ready to read it right now but I want to remember it I tag it in Libby. Libby has
00:04:29 ◼ ► a tagging feature and I have a "I want this book" tag that I'll put on it and that allows me to look
00:04:34 ◼ ► later and say oh here are books... here are library books that I wanted to read at some point and
00:04:40 ◼ ► you know then I can put myself... like if they're available right then I can be like oh I'll just
00:04:44 ◼ ► check it out right now and read it and so that's really great. If it's not available in the library
00:04:50 ◼ ► or I want to read it right now and it's not available in the library for months then I will
00:04:56 ◼ ► usually just go to Kobo since my primary reader is a Kobo. I'll just go to kobo.com generally and buy
00:05:05 ◼ ► it and then it's on my device so I sort of have two places to look for books when I'm deciding
00:05:09 ◼ ► what I want to read. I have my e-reader itself and I have Libby on my iPad or iPhone and those
00:05:15 ◼ ► are the places that I get my books. Libby is never not weird to me. Like I understand it but I still
00:05:21 ◼ ► don't... can't fully get my head around the idea of like library ebooks. Yeah it's... I mean it's really
00:05:34 ◼ ► Kindle and it opens a web page and you basically say okay you log in if you're not logged into Amazon
00:05:40 ◼ ► and say okay and it just shows up on your Kindle. With Kobo, my Kobo is logged into one of the
00:05:47 ◼ ► libraries so with Kobo I just check it out and sync the Kobo and it just shows up on I mean on
00:05:54 ◼ ► next sync whether I sync it or not. So that's... and it's just there and then it's got an expiration date
00:05:59 ◼ ► it will take it you know 21 days later it will it will take it away from you if you haven't
00:06:04 ◼ ► finished it and on the Kobo when you get to the end it actually says would you like to return the
00:06:07 ◼ ► book now and you say yes and it connects to Libby and it boop or overdrive and it and it checks it
00:06:13 ◼ ► back in for you and then you can even download it to your computer using Adobe Digital Editions
00:06:22 ◼ ► which is a very bad piece of software but it will sync with e-readers too. So the other way to do
00:06:28 ◼ ► it is you can download the file on your computer and then sync it that way and that also works. So
00:06:37 ◼ ► checking out than buying a book somewhere. Yeah overdrive is a weird name for a library app. Libby
00:06:42 ◼ ► is a good name. Overdrive that doesn't tell me what it is at all. Yeah you know so the service
00:06:48 ◼ ► the service is called overdrive and they're sort of I think stuck with it but and they used to have
00:06:53 ◼ ► an overdrive app but they created Libby as an app and I think for the reason that you just suggested
00:06:58 ◼ ► which is it's actually for a library branded friendly consumer facing library thing Libby is a
00:07:05 ◼ ► good name for an app. What's the name for that library book app? Overdrive. Yeah okay yeah yeah
00:07:13 ◼ ► just because you might you know need to go into overdrive I don't I don't know why it's like
00:07:18 ◼ ► you know some brand names don't make are not the best like there's the the library also offers a
00:07:25 ◼ ► bunch of video stuff including movies and things you can get from your local library that are
00:07:29 ◼ ► digital and that's usually on Hoopla which is a thing that is a name that doesn't say anything
00:07:36 ◼ ► about anything so Libby in the grand scheme of things. You know what I here's the thing it would
00:07:41 ◼ ► not surprise me if getting streaming video from the library is a bit of a Hoopla you know. Ah it
00:07:47 ◼ ► is in fact it is 100 Hoopla. There you go so maybe that one they actually chose the name correctly.
00:07:53 ◼ ► But Libby and Hoopla I think you have like a limited number of movies you can check out in a
00:07:58 ◼ ► month or something like that but Libby it's just like you know you just read the book and then turn
00:08:01 ◼ ► it back in and then read another book it's once I got in the habit and as I realized just the yeah
00:08:06 ◼ ► the support that the e-readers have I highly recommend it if you or even if you're reading on
00:08:10 ◼ ► like a on your iPhone I mean you can actually read in the Libby app or you can send it to the
00:08:15 ◼ ► Kindle and read in the Kindle app there's lots of different options it's pretty amazing so check in
00:08:21 ◼ ► with your local and regional libraries find out where you can get a card and see who's got
00:08:25 ◼ ► overdrive. I highly recommend this episode brought to you by libraries. Libraries they're your friends.
00:08:30 ◼ ► Thank you to Ryan for that snow talk question if you would like to send in a question to help
00:08:36 ◼ ► us open a future episode of the show go to upgradefeedback.com where you can submit one.
00:08:45 ◼ ► I have some follow-up for you Jason Snow. I will say today is lots of followed where I think by
00:08:51 ◼ ► and large we are going to be covering what has been going on over the last few weeks while we've been
00:08:58 ◼ ► doing we giving out awards. It's been a month yeah since we addressed current events. I also wasn't on
00:09:05 ◼ ► the last regular episode so which is right because that was John Siracusa. Yeah was I no I came back
00:09:13 ◼ ► one never it doesn't matter anyway follow up killers of the flower moon is debuting on Apple
00:09:18 ◼ ► TV plus on January 12th so we have a date you decided to wait like I did just in the end I was
00:09:26 ◼ ► just procrastinating now I'll be able to watch this movie for quote unquote free next weekend
00:09:31 ◼ ► which I'm looking forward to in two installments probably we're going to do the same it's gonna
00:09:36 ◼ ► it's it's gonna get lots of Oscar nominations everybody I I'll watch it in one go but we've
00:09:41 ◼ ► three and a half hours yeah well okay that will that will also work right so I did with the Irishman
00:09:46 ◼ ► you know or it's like take a break we just did our our annual well it's not annual we just did our
00:09:53 ◼ ► recurring family event when Jamie was visiting us too we were all here and we did the six nights of
00:09:59 ◼ ► the Lord of the Rings where we watched the extended editions oh boy which on disc and we I actually
00:10:06 ◼ ► have the 4k h you know HDR ultra HD whatever is the blu-ray that I bought after we went to New Zealand
00:10:13 ◼ ► yeah the it's great so you watch those extended editions they're super long but they they break
00:10:19 ◼ ► in the middle and you watch one half a night for six nights and it was a lot of fun so I the
00:10:27 ◼ ► intermission they don't make movies with intermissions anymore but that was a good kind of
00:10:31 ◼ ► like set by the filmmakers intermission process and I you know sometimes I wonder if if for
00:10:37 ◼ ► something like Killers of the Flower Moon if Martin Scorsese could like offer it in two forms like
00:10:41 ◼ ► with an intermission and without an intermission but I guess for most people the pause button
00:10:49 ◼ ► actually this would be a good time to go to the bathroom if you want you pause it here this is an
00:10:55 ◼ ► appropriate because sometimes I pause it thinking like oh man another two hours I gotta go to the
00:11:00 ◼ ► bathroom now and then I come back and I and I unpause it and like the scene ends and then
00:11:04 ◼ ► there's like a a huge like story break and I'm like oh why did I save those last 30 seconds but
00:11:10 ◼ ► you don't know if you're watching it for the first time anyway didn't Martin Scorsese do the exact
00:11:14 ◼ ► opposite of this where some places were putting intermissions in and he got really mad about it
00:11:19 ◼ ► and like made made the theaters stop doing it I don't know if I know that story but but this is
00:11:25 ◼ ► the thing is like I you shouldn't do it without the filmmaker's permission but the fact is home
00:11:32 ◼ ► video gives everybody permission and so you know the counter argument would be you know what if
00:11:38 ◼ ► filmmakers who are making very long films actually built in an intermission either in theaters or for
00:11:45 ◼ ► even home video would what would that look like could you do an intermission in software where
00:11:48 ◼ ► it's sort of like there was a fade out and then it was like take a break or continue I somebody
00:11:53 ◼ ► should experiment with that yep there were two cinema chains one in the uk and one in amsterdam
00:11:59 ◼ ► where they put intermissions in and they got in trouble with paramount that's not allowed
00:12:03 ◼ ► you're doing it it's not allowed well talking about not allowed the japanese fair trade
00:12:09 ◼ ► commission is working on a law similar to the digital markets act in the eu that could force
00:12:15 ◼ ► companies like apple to allow well not to allow to force companies like apple to allow I should
00:12:21 ◼ ► say sideloading I said allow three times yeah but I knew what I meant you said it out loud did yeah
00:12:26 ◼ ► so japanese fair trade commission they were the organization that had the first ruling for links
00:12:37 ◼ ► being put in to sign up for a service remember that a very long time ago now good times and they
00:12:44 ◼ ► are now looking to go down the same routes as the eu have when it comes to sideloading and also like
00:12:52 ◼ ► dominant browsers and all that kind of stuff this is for google and apple and anyone else
00:12:56 ◼ ► so I'm just putting that on the radar because I think it's going to be a thing we're going to be
00:13:00 ◼ ► talking a lot about again this year yep apple have announced the first vehicles or at least
00:13:06 ◼ ► the first vehicles to get the new carplay have been announced this includes the Aston Martin
00:13:12 ◼ ► db12 coming in 2024 hello governor you're gonna get one of those no and Porsche have said that they
00:13:20 ◼ ► will be adding the new carplay to their cars but gave zero details other than saying that they would
00:13:27 ◼ ► adopt it I've got a link in the show notes to a macrumors article where they have images from
00:13:32 ◼ ► Aston Martin showing how they are actually going to implement it into db12 and then there was a
00:13:39 ◼ ► there was like a mock-up image from Porsche or something that they might want to do so this is
00:13:44 ◼ ► you know the new carplay where apple is controlling your uh odometers and all that fun stuff so you
00:13:51 ◼ ► get your speed and like I know you're not gonna buy an Aston Martin but like you should contact
00:13:57 ◼ ► you're you're a British person you should contact Aston Martin pr okay and see if in somewhere in
00:14:03 ◼ ► swinging London uh-huh they might have a demo of the new Aston Martin with carplay do you think that
00:14:10 ◼ ► my lack of a driving license could be a problem I think carplay is is perfectly fine from the
00:14:19 ◼ ► well I mean you do need to be in the okay you got me get up step one get it because because they're
00:14:24 ◼ ► going to be right in front of you too because you're actually controlling it it's not just on
00:14:27 ◼ ► the screen yeah could be yeah well they're not going to they're probably not going to trust you
00:14:32 ◼ ► to drive that fancy car anyway so you just sit in the they'll just sit in the showroom and they'll
00:14:36 ◼ ► let you look at it there how about that how about that I'll do what I can on that one no promises
00:14:41 ◼ ► just tell them that you can drive and see what happens what they say I mean would they really
00:14:46 ◼ ► check you know you're a fully licensed media professional that's all that really matters
00:14:51 ◼ ► that's true I do have my license from the media professional agency that's right on that the
00:14:58 ◼ ► apple store apple's infinite loop campus will be closing on january 20th pull one out for the the
00:15:03 ◼ ► company store I've been there this was the apple store before there was an apple store this was the
00:15:08 ◼ ► apple store and they always sold stuff that you couldn't get anywhere else we got a onesie for our
00:15:13 ◼ ► baby yep company store at one point in the in the uh what 2002 era um the for our baby who is a
00:15:23 ◼ ► college graduate now that that baby so um it is you know it's kind of been surpassed they built a
00:15:29 ◼ ► whole store at apple park right a store slash visitor center and it also sells unique stuff
00:15:35 ◼ ► like merchandise that is just not available in any other apple retail store and it's about five times
00:15:40 ◼ ► the size of the infinite loop store yeah it is it is also I mean the infinite loop store has sold I
00:15:47 ◼ ► don't know I haven't been there in years now um they did used to sell like there were computers
00:15:51 ◼ ► there and there were there were um peripherals there and stuff like that it was um always you
00:15:59 ◼ ► know right it predated the retail store and then at some point they put it into retail but it wasn't
00:16:03 ◼ ► quite the same as a real retail store the apple store at apple park is a real apple retail store
00:16:07 ◼ ► with extra stuff and the company store uh the infinite loop store never really felt quite like
00:16:13 ◼ ► that so small so it's I think the writing was on the wall I honestly am surprised that it is still
00:16:20 ◼ ► there but it will shortly not be there anymore my understanding is they did sell some unique items
00:16:24 ◼ ► because they sold some infinite loop specific items not apple there's a lot of apple park
00:16:28 ◼ ► branded apple merchandise at apple park as well as but like that's where I've got a t-shirt with
00:16:35 ◼ ► a rainbow apple logo on it I'm like where do you buy that and the answer is you buy it at one of
00:16:40 ◼ ► these stores that's that's the the only place they don't sell those it's a funny quirk of apple
00:16:45 ◼ ► retail that apple does not spend any money on buy a t-shirt with the apple logo on it in any
00:16:51 ◼ ► place other than when you make a pilgrimage to cupertino it's pretty funny I went there um the
00:16:57 ◼ ► last wwc so wwc last year because I wanted to take it in there and it was closed uh they were
00:17:04 ◼ ► they were doing set up for a developer event there or something like that and so it was very hot and
00:17:09 ◼ ► we had to then stand and wait for an uber to take us away again which was very sad yeah but she got
00:17:14 ◼ ► her picture in front of the sign which is really the real reason to go there yeah what's rapidly
00:17:20 ◼ ► becoming a nostalgia trip since there's a I mean it's not the center of the universe anymore at
00:17:27 ◼ ► apple although it used to be and it's uh I mean it's they built a replacement for it oh and it's
00:17:35 ◼ ► like a thousand times better like the visitor center apple park is fantastic right that like
00:17:41 ◼ ► it's a store and like an exhibition space and a cafe and seating area and like there's also
00:17:48 ◼ ► something to look at because no offense to infinite loop not much to look at but you can look at apple
00:17:53 ◼ ► park you can see some hints of it from the from that little viewing area at the top like there was
00:17:58 ◼ ► a world in which they did none of that and I'm happy that they ended up doing all of it sure the
00:18:02 ◼ ► people that well I think they knew they knew that people were going to come because people come to
00:18:06 ◼ ► the infinite loop and they're like okay how do we deflect them right it's like we don't want them in
00:18:11 ◼ ► the ring because like literally infinite loop you can just drive around it yeah you can walk up to
00:18:17 ◼ ► you can walk inside I mean they'll stop you but like you can you can drive and park you can drive
00:18:21 ◼ ► all the way around you can power do some power sliding as you drive around the loop you can you
00:18:25 ◼ ► can and then you can park anywhere which is also where the employees park although you're not
00:18:30 ◼ ► supposed to I think you're supposed to park only by the store and then you can walk you can walk in
00:18:34 ◼ ► or walk up to pretty much any of the buildings and then they will stop you because you don't just you
00:18:39 ◼ ► know you don't deserve to be there you don't belong there you don't have a pass you're not
00:18:42 ◼ ► seeing anybody you're get out get out and stay out they very rarely said that to me but you know
00:18:49 ◼ ► occasionally and you know I don't know whether they plan on like gating that entrance but they
00:18:56 ◼ ► on mariani avenue but they could because it was always a little bit weird so when they built the
00:19:00 ◼ ► new one they're like no no uh parking and everything is completely separate but across the street from
00:19:07 ◼ ► the security gates we've made a little place for the general public to go and you can you can stay
00:19:13 ◼ ► there if you want and the apple watch series 9 and apple watch ultra 2 are currently back on sale so
00:19:21 ◼ ► now in upgrade continuity we have to be clear we never covered them going off sale okay because
00:19:29 ◼ ► as we recorded our last episode they had just uh said that they were going to go off sale and we
00:19:35 ◼ ► we were like well let's not even break the seal on that one because who knows how it's going to
00:19:40 ◼ ► change between now and uh and and beginning of january which is where we are now so they went
00:19:45 ◼ ► off sale and then they came back on sale i'm gonna not give all the details but basically they're in
00:19:50 ◼ ► a patent battle of a company called massimo over the block oxygen sensor if you do not know about
00:19:57 ◼ ► this right now there'll be some links in the show notes you can read up but the point thank you for
00:20:01 ◼ ► only listening to upgrade and no other tech podcast i guess if you've never heard about it
00:20:05 ◼ ► you never know i mean surely with at least one person's only source of apple news right
00:20:10 ◼ ► no i'm sure i've heard i've had people say that the upgrade is their uh their apple or tech
00:20:15 ◼ ► podcast which we appreciate very much there's an apple watch kerfuffle involving patents and it was
00:20:20 ◼ ► briefly off sale and then when the biden administration declined to uh overrule the patent
00:20:28 ◼ ► organization which they did for apple's benefit in a dispute with samsung but samsung not an american
00:20:35 ◼ ► company massimo is an american company and despite the name which makes it sound like it's done by
00:20:41 ◼ ► italian spies i keep thinking it's italian check with federico on that one but it's not it's an
00:20:46 ◼ ► american company it's based in irvine it's like a mile from where my in-laws live massimo so i
00:20:50 ◼ ► could check it out i could reconnoiter at some point in irvine in orange county so uh they the
00:20:57 ◼ ► biden administration said nope we're not going to do it apple immediately appealed the appeals court
00:21:01 ◼ ► immediately basically said okay it can go back on sale while we consider the case because it is
00:21:05 ◼ ► taking a product off sale is harm and generally courts are like let's not do harm while we're
00:21:12 ◼ ► waiting to process what's going to happen and uh and as a result apple has appealed and can keep
00:21:18 ◼ ► appealing and until it's all wrapped up um it will still be on sale and presumably apple and massimo
00:21:25 ◼ ► i don't know are they talking there it feels like this is all jockeying for leverage yeah yeah the
00:21:30 ◼ ► u.s customs and border protection have to make a decision on january 12th as to whether software
00:21:38 ◼ ► changes that apple wants to make would be deemed acceptable of massimo's patents right the appeals
00:21:44 ◼ ► court that apple went to that put like a stop to the the ban or a stay as it's called i was also
00:21:50 ◼ ► asked the itc the international trade commission to consider whether they would be willing to just
00:21:55 ◼ ► stay the ban completely until the full appeals process has been completed one way or another so
00:22:02 ◼ ► they could potentially be ruled against and have to take it back off sale or they could be told
00:22:07 ◼ ► and again i feel like in general courts and and other organizations you kind of want to not
00:22:16 ◼ ► that's what stays are for is you kind of want to not do harm i mean i guess massimo would argue
00:22:21 ◼ ► that the existence of the apple watch is doing them harm yeah but um if there's a penalty that
00:22:27 ◼ ► could potentially come uh you know if it's in dispute about whether an appeal is likely to be
00:22:33 ◼ ► one or not i mean i don't know we'll see i i feel like that apple's got a real shot here for them to
00:22:38 ◼ ► say you can keep selling it while this processes but this this may also be apple just kind of
00:22:42 ◼ ► running out the clock yeah the itc happens on january 10th to confirm what they think about that
00:22:48 ◼ ► that like you know obviously if the customs and border protection say it's okay then that's going
00:22:53 ◼ ► to help them but if they don't then the appeals court has asked the itc if it can still be sold
00:22:58 ◼ ► but failing all of this apple has another hearing on january 15th for the us court of appeals to try
00:23:03 ◼ ► and get everything overturned entirely this is very messy this is very messy this is massimo
00:23:09 ◼ ► i think some would probably call it okay they've got a something's gonna get done about this
00:23:20 ◼ ► that like it's been happening while we've been mostly on break because this story is kind of
00:23:25 ◼ ► exhausting to me to be honest and uh you calling it messy mode does not make it better so it does
00:23:32 ◼ ► it makes everything what if what if there was like a big apple story and we just didn't cover it on
00:23:36 ◼ ► upgrade we're like nope i mean we haven't not done that you know there are things that are going on
00:23:41 ◼ ► where we just don't bother because it's like not really like you know that there are people talking
00:23:47 ◼ ► about it but it's kind of for us there's not really much to add so we just don't but this one
00:23:52 ◼ ► is big enough that we would have and are now so like you know we'll probably give follow-up in
00:23:58 ◼ ► the next couple of weeks as to exactly what's happening with this because it is a big story
00:24:02 ◼ ► the idea of a product just being taken off sale which it was yeah wild it's also just a lot of
00:24:09 ◼ ► court stuff which realistically is not really super interesting when all you can do is say
00:24:16 ◼ ► what we've just said like there was an appeal that appeal was said yes appeal was said no two things
00:24:22 ◼ ► um more that i wanted to say about this one is buying psychology which is i don't know about you
00:24:30 ◼ ► i mean you you have a you have a an ultra 2 i do when it was right before christmas and they're
00:24:36 ◼ ► like oh it's gonna go off sale because of this part of my brain was like jason just buy an ultra 2
00:24:41 ◼ ► right now okay like why and the answer was because it's going away so maybe you should get it now and
00:24:51 ◼ ► i'm like i don't think i really even want an ultra 2 i'm very happy with my previous generation
00:24:56 ◼ ► titanium watch it's black it's titanium it's beautiful um i find it funny that apple has sold
00:25:02 ◼ ► this titanium watch because it's i don't know if you could even tell that it's not an aluminum
00:25:07 ◼ ► watch but i know right i know that it's titanium but and it's and it's it fits my wrist and it's
00:25:12 ◼ ► fine i don't need an ultra 2 but part of my brain was like jason but the ultra 2 it's going away
00:25:17 ◼ ► maybe you should get it now before it goes away because what if at some point in the future you
00:25:21 ◼ ► decide you do want an ultra 2 and it's not available in any store what will you do then
00:25:26 ◼ ► and i didn't buy it but i just i thought about it and i thought that was a really funny bit of
00:25:30 ◼ ► buying psychology right like oh we're gonna take it off sale and part of my brain was like oh buy
00:25:35 ◼ ► it now then before it goes away even if you don't want it you gotta buy it now anyway my other thing
00:25:41 ◼ ► is just that if they really wanted to make this uh perfect confluence it would be uh leonel messimo
00:25:50 ◼ ► love it uh i don't know why you think that was acceptable but mine wasn't um no i'm just going
00:25:55 ◼ ► further into the into the garbage dump there so you're welcome to me this whole thing is hilarious
00:26:00 ◼ ► because of the feature that is the problem which is like realistically a useless feature of the
00:26:05 ◼ ► apple watch because of how it's been implemented which is the blood oxygen reading compared to the
00:26:11 ◼ ► other health stuff it's you know i know right like if this was the heart rate sensor it's like okay
00:26:19 ◼ ► fight this i mean it will it will do some warning and i do wonder if like the sleep apnea detection
00:26:25 ◼ ► that they're rumored to be working on if part of what that is going to include is an oxygen monitor
00:26:30 ◼ ► and like do they how they but there's all the the fda approvals and things like that and as a result
00:26:36 ◼ ► there are some alerts but mostly it's just you go to the app and it gives you a number and we know
00:26:41 ◼ ► that the number isn't like as accurate as some other equipment would make it but it is something
00:26:48 ◼ ► uh but yeah it's it's very funny this is this is hardly a honestly if if the ruling came down and
00:26:54 ◼ ► they said look just turn the feature off on new hardware or even new and existing hardware until
00:27:00 ◼ ► we rule on this would it really be a material destruction of functionality of the apple watch
00:27:05 ◼ ► to have the blood oxygen sensor shut off for a while yeah because it's just a feature that
00:27:09 ◼ ► they've never really even when it's never felt core yeah well they just never did a good job
00:27:16 ◼ ► of explaining what you could use it for and and i don't even think it's the case of like oh it's not
00:27:21 ◼ ► fda approved because like the temperature sensors are not as good as they could possibly be but it's
00:27:27 ◼ ► actually implemented into a useful part of the product right right although very specific part
00:27:33 ◼ ► of the product and there's potential yes but other potential uses it they have shied away from sure
00:27:39 ◼ ► so i don't know but the blood oxygen sensor is it doesn't even ever really feel like to me it
00:27:45 ◼ ► even had that one thing that it was doing that was super beneficial yeah i am a blood oxygen sensor
00:27:58 ◼ ► i am massimo that's what you are are you are you mike massimo is that you are you from italy or
00:28:07 ◼ ► from southern california which is it answer the question this episode is brought to you by factor
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00:29:14 ◼ ► to cook a factor meal uh disruptive is not a word i would ever even use it's super easy but what i
00:29:22 ◼ ► i mean you can see in the microwave and it takes two two three minutes and that's it and then it
00:29:27 ◼ ► comes out and it tastes good and i'll just say again i think i've said this here before um they
00:29:32 ◼ ► sent us another box and lauren just would steal them and take them to work with her yep i mean
00:29:38 ◼ ► like i i said hey wait a second they our very nice sponsor sent those to me so that i can talk about
00:29:43 ◼ ► it on a podcast and uh she was not really interested in hearing that and just took them to
00:29:48 ◼ ► work with her and the comment she also gave me as she stole my lunches away to take to work for to
00:29:54 ◼ ► use as her lunches was i don't know how they make microwave chicken taste good which i agree with
00:30:03 ◼ ► that you you might think about it like reheating a microwave meal and you can heat them up in a
00:30:06 ◼ ► toaster oven or an oven too if you want to but um but it's easy in three minutes in a microwave
00:30:11 ◼ ► um if you've reheated microwave food before or frozen food in the microwave you know sometimes
00:30:16 ◼ ► especially with like meat you're like this isn't quite right there's stuff and that's just not the
00:30:22 ◼ ► case i don't know what they're doing uh some of it is the high quality ingredients but um it's just
00:30:26 ◼ ► good and and uh and and all of it that's that's what impresses me it's in three minutes you've
00:30:32 ◼ ► got something that does not feel like it came out of a you know lab somewhere and was extruded from
00:30:37 ◼ ► a microwave instead it feels like fresh good ingredients it's pretty remarkable and like i said
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00:31:30 ◼ ► saddle up partner it's time for a round up uh the horse is happy to get out in the back 50 again
00:31:38 ◼ ► the new york times is reporting that apple is in talks with various publishers to license their
00:31:43 ◼ ► content to be used for training their large language model at apple the times is reporting
00:31:50 ◼ ► that apple is offering quote multi-year deals worth at least 50 million dollars and has made
00:31:56 ◼ ► these deals to publications like condonist and nbc news and i wonder maybe the new york times
00:32:02 ◼ ► could it be you know i find that to be very funny uh like how did you get this information new york
00:32:09 ◼ ► times well you know certainly the reporters don't know but um but it is always funny when they're
00:32:16 ◼ ► like we're reporting on something that's happening inside the building that's always pretty hilarious
00:32:22 ◼ ► so this is in contrast to i guess what open ai is doing where they are doing some of these deals but
00:32:29 ◼ ► they are reportedly very small and i think and the new york times has taken has taken open ai to court
00:32:37 ◼ ► and open ai said hey we were talking to them we were trying to arrange something and my
00:32:41 ◼ ► expectation is open ai was like that's not enough money see you in court right so uh a couple
00:32:47 ◼ ► thoughts here one is there is this ongoing debate about whether you know training a model on
00:32:56 ◼ ► copyrighted material is allowed if that's legal and also if if it is legal what is legal in
00:33:07 ◼ ► terms of how it gets presented because that lawsuit that was filed which is i think the
00:33:12 ◼ ► new york times filed against microsoft and open ai they said basically we can we can make a prompt
00:33:18 ◼ ► that gets gets your model to spit out a paragraph that is verbatim from our source and i know it was
00:33:27 ◼ ► a complex it was like literally pasting the first two graphs of the story and saying write the next
00:33:31 ◼ ► graph but that's not the point the point is if you can coerce an ai model to output copyrighted
00:33:39 ◼ ► material that i i'm fascinated by this argument because i i'm moved by the idea that google
00:33:46 ◼ ► indexing the web is not copyright infringement but google republishing your article is copyright
00:33:51 ◼ ► infringement and there's a gray area in between where it's sort of like are they stealing your
00:33:58 ◼ ► you know ability to make a business on it by summarizing it in a way that devalues it and
00:34:02 ◼ ► they're using it as raw material and and uh but leaving that aside i feel like the big problem
00:34:08 ◼ ► with a lot of these models is that is not necessarily that they're trained on copyrighted
00:34:13 ◼ ► material i do think that's a problem but that there's no control over what they output and
00:34:26 ◼ ► and so it's like a copyright violation machine right in some ways like if you think about it
00:34:34 ◼ ► like let's say it's legal to train on everything that's owned by everybody but it's still not legal
00:34:40 ◼ ► to reproduce copyrighted material and i start if i'm a lawyer especially i start to look at uh
00:34:47 ◼ ► at these llms and think wait a second what's stopping the llm from generating something that
00:34:53 ◼ ► will get us sued for copyright infringement and the answer is as far as i know absolutely nothing
00:34:59 ◼ ► and i think a lot of the controversy is about that which is these things don't know what their
00:35:07 ◼ ► sources are and because you're feeding the copyrighted material in you will get it back out
00:35:12 ◼ ► and there's two solutions to that one is only uh you know it's either you you do a filter at the
00:35:18 ◼ ► end that says does this look like something that actually exists oh it does and don't do that or
00:35:23 ◼ ► some sort of licensing agreement that says it's okay not necessarily just to train but like it's
00:35:29 ◼ ► okay to train and that the output might contain some of my content because we've got a license
00:35:34 ◼ ► for that and i don't know what the nature of this deal is that's being reported that they're talking
00:35:38 ◼ ► about with apple i would imagine that apple is thinking of both those things apple is thinking
00:35:43 ◼ ► on one hand we want to do a license a content license because that's going to put us in opposition
00:35:47 ◼ ► to microsoft and open ai and we like that and it also is giving us a business relationship with the
00:35:53 ◼ ► people who are generating the content so when the content comes out it is okay because we all are on
00:36:00 ◼ ► the same page about this i also though wonder if it's more than that if it's also that apple
00:36:04 ◼ ► is then apple's llms are then allowed to summarize or quote from the material because it's licensed
00:36:12 ◼ ► and that would be one way to get better quality output right in some ways is having the confidence
00:36:17 ◼ ► to say when you build your model that if they're you know if you can find a good source you could
00:36:24 ◼ ► actually say here's what the new york's times said about it and it would be all cool because
00:36:29 ◼ ► they're or here's what these wired magazines said about it i don't know it's an interesting approach
00:36:34 ◼ ► i mean apple has a history of this right so they're the the machine learning algorithms that
00:36:40 ◼ ► they built photo recognition on was on licensed imagery because i remember the question at the
00:36:47 ◼ ► time of like you're using our images to train your algorithm and it was like no i remember
00:36:53 ◼ ► craig vidry i think he said on the talk show said we have we are using licensed imagery so you
00:36:58 ◼ ► imagine they must have spent millions like just buying up all this imagery so they could train it
00:37:04 ◼ ► on and i guess what is one of the best ways to get this kind of text information is like to go to
00:37:10 ◼ ► an institution with as much information as something like the new york times and just be
00:37:14 ◼ ► like we'll just take all of that please just check out yeah and conde nast and nbc news and you build
00:37:19 ◼ ► a sort of a licensed engine that is going to be distinct in some ways from some of the other
00:37:25 ◼ ► models and i again this llm stuff and all the machine learning stuff it's really interesting
00:37:33 ◼ ► i have no doubt that apple misjudged the public's interest in the in the llm chatbot kind of thing
00:37:40 ◼ ► i still am kind of amazed when i see some articles that are like oh apple's like mark german's
00:37:47 ◼ ► newsletter this week said apple's years behind on this and i'm like okay i can believe that
00:37:52 ◼ ► apple is years behind that apple you know that people have been working on this for years and
00:37:56 ◼ ► that apple really only kicked it into gear last year okay i'll accept that but then his examples
00:38:00 ◼ ► are like because because google barred and the thing in bing are out there and it's like those
00:38:07 ◼ ► things are embarrassing experiments they're not real apple doesn't do embarrassing experiments
00:38:11 ◼ ► in public and it feels like a version of that same argument which is oh apple's late to the
00:38:17 ◼ ► apple watch because apple waited until it was ready to release the apple watch and even arguably
00:38:23 ◼ ► they should have waited another year but the pressure was pretty intense it feels a little
00:38:26 ◼ ► like that to me which is like well wait a second barred and the the gpt inside bing and what was
00:38:34 ◼ ► the other thing that he he said he said uh oh there was another ai thing where it's like oh
00:38:39 ◼ ► apple's way back oh amazon announced a new version of alexa like i mean did they even ship that or is
00:38:46 ◼ ► it just sort of like a it's just an announcement that they're gonna do it like to compare that to
00:38:50 ◼ ► what apple's doing like i'm sorry you i'm inclined to believe that apple's a few years behind on ai
00:38:57 ◼ ► these are not great examples because they're not things apple would do right apple is not going to
00:39:02 ◼ ► put out uh something like the the barred experiment where it's sort of like i don't know the results
00:39:08 ◼ ► aren't very good but you could try it out and they're not going to do something like pre-announce
00:39:12 ◼ ► that syria is going to be better eventually in two years or whatever right like they they famously
00:39:17 ◼ ► they don't do that so i need more evidence here about all of this stuff but um and i'm inclined
00:39:24 ◼ ► to believe that yeah they're late to the party but what's interesting about this report is it
00:39:28 ◼ ► suggests that they also got a different approach to this than some of their competitors and maybe
00:39:33 ◼ ► that is born out of the fact that they're late to the party um maybe it's born out of the fact that
00:39:39 ◼ ► their ml people are really skeptical about where all the ai stuff is has been going and is going
00:39:46 ◼ ► and are are trying to approach it and that doesn't necessarily mean it's a better approach but they're
00:39:50 ◼ ► approaching it differently i don't know but this is another data point i mean also though there's
00:39:56 ◼ ► there's i think there's just a difference in the companies i think apple is well aware that there
00:40:01 ◼ ► is no world in which anyone would accept apple taking this data without paying them like people
00:40:08 ◼ ► are asking questions about open ai like i think right so but if apple did it we're in a whole
00:40:13 ◼ ► different scenario no one's going to accept that right so so like that they're going about it the
00:40:17 ◼ ► right way i mean google's doing it amazon's doing it so but i think you're right in the sense that
00:40:22 ◼ ► apple wants to differentiate and there are lawsuits going on and like it let me tell you
00:40:27 ◼ ► it is no coincidence that the lawsuit and the apple is going to pay stories happened within a
00:40:34 ◼ ► day of each other right that is not a coincidence yeah that is the whole message is here's the right
00:40:39 ◼ ► way to do it here's the wrong way to do it from somebody perhaps the new york times i don't know
00:40:43 ◼ ► but like it's yeah it's it's interesting i don't know again i'm not trying to say oh apple i i've
00:40:52 ◼ ► got the inside scoop apple really is killing this like i don't know they they probably were behind
00:40:57 ◼ ► they were caught flat-footed but they're also their attitude to machine learning has always
00:41:01 ◼ ► been different they've been shipping machine learning based products for years they have
00:41:05 ◼ ► different standards and they're again there's an argument that maybe their standards are a little
00:41:09 ◼ ► too high but time and again what we've seen is apple gets criticized for being late to the party
00:41:15 ◼ ► because everybody else is pre-announcing things or doing experimental things and then apple comes in
00:41:21 ◼ ► at a moment when it's a it's a product that apple would actually be proud of and all of what what is
00:41:30 ◼ ► surprising when you're in it is that all that stuff fades away like do we really remember now
00:41:37 ◼ ► really unless unless we do this for a living maybe that like that first apple watch when it was
00:41:44 ◼ ► coming out when it was uh like six months before it was even introduced let alone shipped people
00:41:50 ◼ ► were writing stories about how apple desperately needed a new product and tim cook needed something
00:41:57 ◼ ► to justify him being the ceo those were ridiculous then but there was a lot of it there was a lot of
00:42:02 ◼ ► heat because people are you know people are people and they're impatient and they want to be
00:42:07 ◼ ► entertained and it doesn't necessarily mean that you know apple has to exercise discipline to be
00:42:12 ◼ ► like i know people want to be entertained people want us to the hot thing is chatbots we need to
00:42:17 ◼ ► launch a chatbot but we need to do it right now that could lead to complacency and it could lead
00:42:21 ◼ ► to apple missing the boat it absolutely could but i just i keep thinking about things like the apple
00:42:26 ◼ ► watch where it was the most important thing ever and yes a lot of us looked at it then we're like
00:42:32 ◼ ► guys the iphone is the most important thing and it's going to remain the most important thing the
00:42:36 ◼ ► apple watch is a nice thing if it happens but it's it's never going to be more important than the
00:42:41 ◼ ► than the iphone and yet that was the case and then the apple watch shipped and it was what it was
00:42:47 ◼ ► and six months or a year later it blew over and everybody was kind of over it and and like i said
00:42:54 ◼ ► earlier i think we could all agree thinking back on that original apple watch it was kind of too
00:42:58 ◼ ► early right like it was running everything on the phone and projecting it onto the watch it was like
00:43:02 ◼ ► it was a little it was a little early if anything but they shipped it because they were under
00:43:06 ◼ ► intense pressure to do it so i think about the with the ai stuff is that we're comparing apples
00:43:10 ◼ ► to oranges here we're talking about companies that can afford to put up experimental things and have
00:43:17 ◼ ► them be terrible and have like horrible output that misleads people and makes people file like
00:43:22 ◼ ► legal briefs that are citing cases that don't exist and they're like eh what you're gonna do
00:43:27 ◼ ► it's all an experiment and apple couldn't get away with that but it also is possible and i think
00:43:33 ◼ ► actually likely that apple's vision of where machine learning tech was going to be applied
00:43:41 ◼ ► in its products maybe maybe lacked a little bit in terms of where the technology was going to take
00:43:51 ◼ ► great leaps and capture people's imagination and i think both of those things can be true so i'm
00:43:56 ◼ ► interested this is going to be a great year to answer this question of like well what can they
00:43:59 ◼ ► get in a product this summer what can they get in the os is um but uh this story this this story
00:44:06 ◼ ► about the licensing says it again right which is like if you're expecting apple to just jump in and
00:44:11 ◼ ► play the exact same game as everybody else they're not gonna i'm like what part of apple do you not
00:44:16 ◼ ► understand they're not gonna do it they're just it's just not how they're wired um and they may
00:44:22 ◼ ► succeed they may fail but they're not playing the same game they're just not main qi quo is
00:44:28 ◼ ► reporting that the ultra wide camera on the iphone 16 pro will feature a 48 megapixel sensor this
00:44:35 ◼ ► would allow it to capture much more light and generate higher quality images uh i would love
00:44:41 ◼ ► this because i have been unhappy for the last couple of years of how frequently the iphone
00:44:46 ◼ ► switches to like the ultra wide macro setting when you're close to stuff because it produces
00:44:52 ◼ ► a worst looking image like they can be like definitely not as good in low light so my hope
00:44:57 ◼ ► would be that this would help make that better if they had a lens with that sensor behind it that
00:45:01 ◼ ► could take things from closer um instances to get that benefit so that would be good if they do it
00:45:08 ◼ ► a lot of good bits here um remember ultra wide gives you even more area like you could use this
00:45:17 ◼ ► for um for center stage um you could use this uh for macro and i think one of the big motivators
00:45:26 ◼ ► here is if you use this with the main camera to do um stereo videos um 3d videos for the for the
00:45:36 ◼ ► vision pro it's cropping from a much higher sensor because it's you know what it's going to be one of
00:45:43 ◼ ► the eyes along with the main camera that's how they do that but the current one that's implemented
00:45:48 ◼ ► on the 15 it's cropping a low megapixel sensor in order to get the same field of view as the main
00:45:56 ◼ ► camera which means that's why it's like a 1080 picture is because the quality just isn't as good
00:46:02 ◼ ► so if they put it at 48 not only yeah your ultra wides are going to look good and you can you can
00:46:11 ◼ ► zoom in like center stage like you can zoom into parts of it and it's actually going to be good
00:46:15 ◼ ► macro is good stereo capture is good it's funny because in a normal world apple probably looks
00:46:21 ◼ ► at the ultra wide and it's like why does this need to be higher quality uh but then you start
00:46:26 ◼ ► to tick off oh but we use the ultra wide it's like a utility camera we use it for a lot of other stuff
00:46:30 ◼ ► okay like i think they use the main for center stage when you use continuity camera but like
00:46:36 ◼ ► the ultra wide has more coverage so i could see a scenario where you even used it for that
00:46:40 ◼ ► and said if you need to go outside the frame switch to the ultra wide and then you can go
00:46:44 ◼ ► even further to the left or the right and get everybody in there like there there are a bunch
00:46:49 ◼ ► of uses for it right to having that ultra wide and so we've reached the point now where they
00:46:52 ◼ ► look at the ultra wide camera and they're like oh yeah i guess it should be better which is great i
00:47:03 ◼ ► because they they all should keep getting better and mark german is reporting that the iphone 16
00:47:09 ◼ ► lineup will include a new dedicated button that you can press for taking video i'm assuming also
00:47:15 ◼ ► photos but mark has just said video it will be a signable i don't know it will be a capacitive
00:47:21 ◼ ► button on the bottom right side of the phone where the millimeter wave antenna is if you have a us
00:47:26 ◼ ► model the button will not physically move but it will feature haptic feedback and force sensitivity
00:47:32 ◼ ► so it'd be an area that you'll you'll press apple did this with the uh the home button for many
00:47:37 ◼ ► years when it moved to touch id this is very interesting and weird to me it's like it's just
00:47:45 ◼ ► like a button like why now like i know right now but also ours emerged from their tomb after many
00:47:50 ◼ ► years it's this is odd this is an odd one um i would like it like why not but it's like it's
00:47:57 ◼ ► one of those things where like you know we were just talking about the the 3d video like you know
00:48:04 ◼ ► like spatial videos this might be part of the reason but it is just like a funny thing to after
00:48:09 ◼ ► all these years you now put a physical quote unquote button on the phone for capturing media
00:48:17 ◼ ► of two new buttons and two new buttons in two years yeah two new buttons in two years the iphone
00:48:23 ◼ ► 20 the entire rail of the phone will be all buttons just all buttons it's all buttons yeah i
00:48:29 ◼ ► mean it puts one it puts an action button on the other side that's part of it we know that they
00:48:34 ◼ ► were trying to do capacitive pressure sensitive you know fake button buttons with the action
00:48:40 ◼ ► button and the report is they couldn't get it to work so they or with the volume buttons i think
00:48:44 ◼ ► it was right like and they couldn't it was it was the volume and the the action button was supposed
00:48:50 ◼ ► to be action but that's what the rumors said anyway initially anyway and that they had to back
00:48:54 ◼ ► out of that so this is on the other side it's on the other end i think it maybe addresses the issue
00:48:58 ◼ ► of having it be held upright for um you know held for 3d captures that you put a more natural place
00:49:07 ◼ ► for your finger to go i i mean as i'm speaking to you now i'm capturing video on my iphone using a
00:49:14 ◼ ► amount that's like the the studio neat glyph so it's a it's like a clip and i keep you know it's
00:49:19 ◼ ► halfway down the phone because above it there are buttons and you can't press the buttons now this
00:49:24 ◼ ► if it's capacitive actually i think the any kind of mount will not affect it because it's being
00:49:30 ◼ ► touched by not a human not human skin but i do have that moment of like how am i going to even
00:49:36 ◼ ► mount my phone anymore but that all said like i love it this is i'm just going to replay we
00:49:41 ◼ ► could just go to the clip uh what i said about the action button which is there is something amazing
00:49:46 ◼ ► about having tactile it's it's like uh physical interfaces in cars instead of touch screens it's
00:49:52 ◼ ► the same thing like having to deal with software and like how do you get there well you tap on this
00:49:57 ◼ ► and then you scroll here and you swipe down and then you tap and then you open the glove
00:50:01 ◼ ► compartment in a tesla right it's like or you set the setting on your iphone like it's so much better
00:50:08 ◼ ► to turn on the air conditioning with a with a button or a switch it's so much better to start
00:50:15 ◼ ► capturing video or take a photo by pressing a button or doing whatever with the action button
00:50:20 ◼ ► but i think the the goal of the action button initially was literally i want a shutter button
00:50:25 ◼ ► and this sounds like the primary goal is i want a let's start doing video button and i think that
00:50:30 ◼ ► that is i think what it shows is that apple is really analyzing how people how regular people
00:50:37 ◼ ► use their iphones and that one of the complaints about using their iphones is a camera which is
00:50:47 ◼ ► is is oh i got it like do i unlock it and i have to go and i find the app and then by the time that
00:50:53 ◼ ► i do all that the moment has passed and i know there are shortcuts and stuff you can swipe in
00:50:57 ◼ ► this direction and do that but like there's nothing like the the smooth physical action
00:51:01 ◼ ► of pulling your phone out of your pocket it's in your hands you press the button you don't even
00:51:05 ◼ ► need to look you press the button and know that the capture is starting i think that's the key
00:51:10 ◼ ► part and you're capturing video you can get it going before you've even looked at the display
00:51:15 ◼ ► just with your hands feeling the phone that is powerful because and because you don't have to
00:51:22 ◼ ► interact with software at all it is like a physical like camera from the old days right
00:51:28 ◼ ► where if you're a photographer if you ever had a camera you probably know that you can just go like
00:51:34 ◼ ► turn in the old days like turn it on and then put your finger where the shutter is and then halfway
00:51:40 ◼ ► down and click and you know you're and you're taking pictures there's no like okay well first
00:51:44 ◼ ► you gotta turn on the camera and then you've gotta tap on the on the on the back of it in order to
00:51:50 ◼ ► like that no it's muscle memory it's it's physical and there's great power in that especially for
00:51:55 ◼ ► something like capturing video or stills where your eyes are not really on the phone and you
00:52:00 ◼ ► don't want them to be on the phone you want them to be on the subject so i you know i don't know
00:52:04 ◼ ► where this comes from that apple is just suddenly adding buttons everywhere but i love it like bring
00:52:10 ◼ ► it on bring on the all button phone fine let's we'll figure it out uh well you know but like a
00:52:16 ◼ ► few discrete buttons you don't want to overwhelm people with buttons then it's like the apollo
00:52:20 ◼ ► lunar lander right like it's like this is maybe too many buttons but surely a few more buttons
00:52:26 ◼ ► would be welcome for things like capture this is great i love this rumor i look forward to
00:52:31 ◼ ► the disasters of cases again oh man yeah yeah well you know case making is a lucrative business
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00:54:10 ◼ ► thanks to vitally for their support of this show and relay fm so let's look ahead a little bit to
00:54:24 ◼ ► for how this thing plays out roughly right okay we're going to start the year with an announcement
00:54:29 ◼ ► of some kind right however that happens doesn't really make too much of a difference for the fact
00:54:34 ◼ ► that it will happen then units will start going out to reviewers presumably there would then be
00:54:40 ◼ ► reviews before customers buy them customers will buy them apps will be released then wwdc rolls
00:54:47 ◼ ► around presumably for operating system improvements i expect we'll see some wwdc then later on in the
00:54:54 ◼ ► year a new version of the os and moving forward i doubt would i cannot imagine any more hardware
00:55:01 ◼ ► this year but by the end of the year more countries right would start to potentially be
00:55:06 ◼ ► receiving the ability to buy this product so this year no matter what is the story right like we are
00:55:15 ◼ ► going to be talking about the vision pro throughout all of 2024 like with the product actually
00:55:22 ◼ ► existing not just the way we've been doing it for the last couple of years where we've been talking
00:55:27 ◼ ► about what it might be and then talking about our experiences and then wondering more about it but
00:55:31 ◼ ► like we should see it in january probably some this is when this stuff will start to kick off
00:55:36 ◼ ► and then it is the entire year right yeah the whole year yeah for sure are you excited about
00:55:43 ◼ ► that prospect um yeah this is this is this is it right like whenever we were talking about like
00:55:51 ◼ ► looking forward to 2024 what i keep saying is it's going to be a great year i know i heard you guys
00:55:56 ◼ ► talking about this uh on connected last week that it doesn't matter how it goes i was trying to tell
00:56:06 ◼ ► this to leo leport who's a real skeptic on mac break weekly a real skeptic about the vision pro
00:56:11 ◼ ► and my point is it's okay to be a skeptic it's a weird product in a weird category that apple's
00:56:17 ◼ ► never done before and they're trying a bunch of stuff but the point is first off they are trying
00:56:23 ◼ ► a lot of stuff this is not a half-baked product this is cutting edge you and i both used it it is
00:56:32 ◼ ► amazing technically it is an amazing piece of hardware so this is the world's number one
00:56:40 ◼ ► technology company spending years building a product that is basically the best product
00:56:46 ◼ ► money can buy to do this thing that people think many people think is going to be the future of
00:56:50 ◼ ► computing and that's why they're doing it is because they think this is a future direction now
00:56:54 ◼ ► are they wrong what are the it's a 1.0 product it's guaranteed because it's a 1.0 product that
00:57:00 ◼ ► you're going to look back in five years and go boy right like because just even if it's successful
00:57:05 ◼ ► because you learn things and the tech march is on but you got to start somewhere so regardless like
00:57:12 ◼ ► look i i'm not an apple investor right and i'm not an apple employee so i don't have that kind
00:57:19 ◼ ► of investment in it where i oh it needs to work because i need my stock to go up i i i'm not
00:57:26 ◼ ► coming from that perspective but like as somebody who is enthusiastic about the kind of march of
00:57:32 ◼ ► technology what a story this is succeed or fail because like start with what are the decisions
00:57:41 ◼ ► they made we've got now a clue about that with the june announcements and with our 30 minutes each
00:57:46 ◼ ► on it and they were very impressive but like it was a constrained environment extremely constrained
00:57:52 ◼ ► we were told what to do for 30 minutes it was not free form so what what is that broader experience
00:58:00 ◼ ► like what are the choices they made where do they fall down where do they succeed again regardless
00:58:05 ◼ ► of whether it's a success or a flop because i don't think we're gonna know right like even if
00:58:10 ◼ ► it's got a lot of of limitations it's a 1.0 product and i think they're in this for the long
00:58:16 ◼ ► haul so they're going to be a lot of hot takes right that that's going to happen but like the
00:58:21 ◼ ► big story here is it's an entirely new apple platform where they've spent a huge amount of
00:58:26 ◼ ► time building incredibly cutting edge not just hardware but like software user interactions
00:58:32 ◼ ► like the eye tracking based stuff i can't wait to see it and dig into it and see where it takes us
00:58:40 ◼ ► and that's why 2024 is going to be i think is going to be great because i'm not saying the
00:58:46 ◼ ► product is going to be great but i'm going to say the product it's impossible to look at that product
00:58:51 ◼ ► and conceive that product and not think of how interesting and particular and peculiar that it's
00:58:59 ◼ ► going to be and i don't think even apple understands because you never know until it's out there how
00:59:05 ◼ ► people are going to use it how software developers are going to dive into it the ones that do like
00:59:12 ◼ ► all of that is you can't even conceive of it until you start the clock and start shipping it
00:59:17 ◼ ► like there are just fundamental questions that we don't have the answers to like what is it like
00:59:23 ◼ ► to use it for one hour is it uncomfortable 30 say what is it like to use it for 32 minutes right like
00:59:32 ◼ ► we don't know we don't know like what is it truly like to watch a movie on this thing like is it
00:59:37 ◼ ► actually a nice experience like it looks like it would be but we don't know what is it like to
00:59:42 ◼ ► write an email you know like what does the keyboard like to use on this thing like there are just all
00:59:48 ◼ ► the things that we that are fundamental to the product that we do not understand yet and like
00:59:55 ◼ ► just this whole idea this this this idea of spatial computing that apple is trying to bring
01:00:01 ◼ ► to the world here right where this thing isn't just a media entertainment device it is a full-on
01:00:08 ◼ ► computer computer you can use it like what is that world truly like right an ipad you put on your
01:00:16 ◼ ► face what is that what is that like do you want to spend your afternoon moving your head left right
01:00:20 ◼ ► up and down like is it nice or is it not no we don't know these things that is one of the
01:00:25 ◼ ► questions that i really am curious about is if i sit at this this desk and instead of using
01:00:33 ◼ ► the display the 27 inch display that's here i use a big display or a great use case for me is if i go
01:00:39 ◼ ► visit my mom in phoenix and i sit at her dining room table with my macbook air but hovering above
01:00:46 ◼ ► it now is a giant screen that is my mac in vision pro would i you know could i do that could i could
01:00:54 ◼ ► i use it that way they say you can but like they say a lot of things right that's that's when
01:01:00 ◼ ► reality meets pr is that that's when we we get in there and we're like okay well here's here what
01:01:05 ◼ ► the issues are and i don't even i can't even make up what those issues are i don't know is there a
01:01:10 ◼ ► is there an amazing workflow where there's like i was thinking about like the fact that it runs
01:01:14 ◼ ► a lot of common apple apps i thought you know i i can do stuff on the ipad without having a mac
01:01:23 ◼ ► around i can do a lot of stuff not everything but a lot of stuff and i thought i haven't even
01:01:26 ◼ ► considered like what's it going to be like if i can put slack over here and calendar over here
01:01:39 ◼ ► theoretically i can do that but we don't know whether we you know you do that for half an hour
01:01:47 ◼ ► and you're like nope forget about it or whether it's something you could do for all day or half
01:01:52 ◼ ► a day or a couple of hours like yeah and and watching a movie and relaxing and doing playing
01:02:01 ◼ ► a game like we don't know we just don't know about about that because all we've people inside apple
01:02:07 ◼ ► know and maybe some people developers know a little bit more in the developer labs but really
01:02:12 ◼ ► nobody on the outside is going to know until we set these things up and use it for minute 31 on
01:02:21 ◼ ► we like what are the apps going to be like right like people have been dreaming this stuff up in
01:02:26 ◼ ► their minds for a while like what they're working in the simulator there is the opportunity for
01:02:32 ◼ ► experiences and applications that truly open our minds to what this world can be like i've said
01:02:41 ◼ ► this in a few places now so i'm apologizing for repeating myself but i am kind of coming to this
01:02:46 ◼ ► is this is probably the most important thing that apple has done in my time covering them
01:02:56 ◼ ► professionally because it is a brand new thing with large ramifications like the apple watch is
01:03:06 ◼ ► the only other thing that was brand new but it was never positioned as being a computer like that's a
01:03:15 ◼ ► different that's a different thing right right it's an iphone accessory and and also that was
01:03:20 ◼ ► 10 years ago 10 years 10 years ago it was a very different time this is a computing platform yeah
01:03:26 ◼ ► it's a new apple computing platform completely new well i mean completely within asterisk i guess i
01:03:31 ◼ ► would say the last time that there was anything even remotely like this was the ipad introduction
01:03:35 ◼ ► and although the ipad was a lot like the phone the vision os has a lot in common but it's also
01:03:41 ◼ ► 10 years on so i would say you could make a very easy argument that this is the biggest apple
01:03:45 ◼ ► hardware introduction since the original iphone and like the way that i have been thinking about
01:03:50 ◼ ► this in my mind is like it is adding the third input mechanism right so we had the mouse we have
01:03:59 ◼ ► touch we have eye tracking eye tracking which yeah i was over christmas when we were in Bucharest
01:04:06 ◼ ► there was some some of our friends were asking me about it and i kind of hit on a thing which is how
01:04:11 ◼ ► i remember it being and again as i said to them i have not dined out so much on half an hour in my
01:04:17 ◼ ► entire career as i have on that one 30-minute experience that i got right but as i've reflected
01:04:21 ◼ ► on it for the last six months one of the things that i remembered is like the move the eye
01:04:28 ◼ ► tracking almost when you get into the flow of it feels a little bit like mind reading it does
01:04:34 ◼ ► because you naturally naturally look where you want to interact with so the fact that you are
01:04:42 ◼ ► like oh i want to look at discord right now and your eyes will just go to discord and then discord
01:04:49 ◼ ► is ready for you to interact yeah there is so little delay between these things happening in
01:04:54 ◼ ► your brain it just feels like it felt like the device was just ready and working with me and and
01:04:59 ◼ ► that is very cool well it's reading your mind and the reason that it feels like it's reading your
01:05:04 ◼ ► mind is because like you're i mean people can look at your vision look at your eyes and and
01:05:13 ◼ ► intuit things from it but at a very gross level right like oh you're looking you're looking over
01:05:19 ◼ ► to the i'm talking to you and you're looking over to the left and you know you're bored or distracted
01:05:23 ◼ ► or whatever this isn't like that this is like nobody knows exactly what i'm looking at exactly
01:05:29 ◼ ► right it's only me because i i can see like it's it's a private like our gaze is at least i think
01:05:44 ◼ ► and the vision pro is like no i know i know where you're looking it knows what word you're looking
01:05:49 ◼ ► at in a sentence yeah that's next level which is why which is why the privacy stuff is so
01:05:54 ◼ ► important right because you can imagine bad apps and things building a profile of you based on
01:06:01 ◼ ► where your eyes go and that's gross that's really gross because they're trying to read your mind
01:06:06 ◼ ► but at a system level what it's doing is it's making the whole landscape around you in the
01:06:12 ◼ ► vision pro you know augmented reality space it is it is like your companion who knows exactly what
01:06:20 ◼ ► you're thinking at that at that moment and and i it's i don't want to overstate it but you are
01:06:25 ◼ ► exactly right that like you it's like you think about doing something and tap your fingers
01:06:30 ◼ ► together and the thing happens now what you're actually doing is you're looking at it and tapping
01:06:34 ◼ ► your fingers and the thing happens but there is a leap i think that our brains make of you know
01:06:40 ◼ ► thought to sight to action and by vision pro being able to take that that jump to sight it's like it's
01:06:48 ◼ ► connecting thought to action directly and i think that that is going to be the thing that surprises
01:06:54 ◼ ► people the most like i think that will be the thing that when people use it they will be kind
01:06:59 ◼ ► of blown away why is is the accuracy again if it truly is as accurate as our experience was
01:07:05 ◼ ► right and it does need to be for it to to have that effect um but it was very good when we used
01:07:16 ◼ ► and it's a very clever trick that they play really well like at first like look over here and do that
01:07:21 ◼ ► and then eventually it's like just click photos for me and like you just go and do it like there
01:07:25 ◼ ► is a because it ends up becoming quite intuitive that's what i expect will be quite startling to
01:07:32 ◼ ► people how kind of how good it is um but yeah i i'm i'm very excited for this year i think that the
01:07:43 ◼ ► opportunities for content are massive like for us like i am so excited for what we will be able to
01:07:51 ◼ ► talk about like i am very excited about it i mean we do okay when nothing's going on but it's great
01:07:56 ◼ ► when stuff is going on and it's like even yes it's like even better yeah and you know my only thing
01:08:01 ◼ ► that was just like how long until i get one i'm like trying trying to plan this out in in my year
01:08:07 ◼ ► is the most complicated part but i will try everything possible in within my power time for
01:08:15 ◼ ► another visitor to to uh the united states i guess i mean that is my plan right like my plan is yeah
01:08:23 ◼ ► order one and then book a flight schedule a pickup book a flight yeah yeah the um i wanted to say the
01:08:30 ◼ ► one thing that um i'm most interested in seeing i'm sure there are going to be a lot of things
01:08:35 ◼ ► that are in the shipping version of the vision pro that surprise us that apple has withheld
01:08:39 ◼ ► that they perhaps will even mention i'd be actually a little disappointed if they're like nope
01:08:43 ◼ ► everything we showed in june is all that there is and the rest of it we took out i would be a little
01:08:48 ◼ ► disappointed i want there to be some more stuff that they withheld but the one thing that i'm
01:08:53 ◼ ► sure they withheld that i'm really curious about is is voice control because we didn't see any
01:09:03 ◼ ► indication of siri or anything like that and and when you start to think about stuff especially
01:09:10 ◼ ► what i think about is text input right but also you know more abstract commands in general i can
01:09:17 ◼ ► see how you can go really fast with vision pro with your eyes and with your hands but i wonder
01:09:25 ◼ ► if you can really take a leap production wise productivity wise if you can add your voice to
01:09:32 ◼ ► the mix yeah because they said it was possible but they they never showed it they never showed
01:09:37 ◼ ► anything right and tapping on a keyboard like if i want to answer somebody's text uh who sent me a
01:09:43 ◼ ► message i i will see but like i have a hard time imagining that my preference is going to be to tap
01:09:50 ◼ ► on a virtual keyboard instead of being able to dictate the answer yeah and and i i just will that
01:09:57 ◼ ► be iphone level or will there be some quirks and interesting things that may that elevated a little
01:10:03 ◼ ► bit because if you okay this is a little unfair but like if you have to break out the keyboard
01:10:10 ◼ ► and the trackpad they blew it right like that you you shouldn't have to do that like if you want to
01:10:15 ◼ ► be like oh i need to type a lot i'm going to bring out a bluetooth keyboard and go and i'm typing
01:10:20 ◼ ► into something and it shows up in the vision pro great great do that if you need to do that but
01:10:24 ◼ ► like i i if i'm tapping things out on the little virtual keyboard inside uh like there needs to be
01:10:32 ◼ ► some more so i i'm anyway i'm curious about how well that integrates and if it's just iphone level
01:10:36 ◼ ► siri or if there's some extra stuff going on there i'm digging around on the page and again this is
01:10:42 ◼ ► nothing wild but they're like to dictate you just look at the microphone button and start speaking
01:10:47 ◼ ► is one of the things on the page yeah baby see see and we weren't we didn't get to use that but like
01:10:52 ◼ ► that's the that's that that's that um mind reading thing again right which is you look at the
01:10:56 ◼ ► microphone and you give a command and then you look away and it's not it's not i don't know it
01:11:02 ◼ ► feels that feels different to me than having to sort of take a deep breath and call the assistant
01:11:08 ◼ ► to you ahoy telephone i give you a command now right and instead it's sort of like you just look
01:11:16 ◼ ► and go this thing and then you move to the next thing and it's just it it becomes part of the
01:11:20 ◼ ► user interface that's really interesting depending on how they execute it it's probably not long now
01:11:27 ◼ ► not long now not long now not long no it's uh i love that we don't really understand how the
01:11:33 ◼ ► rollout's gonna go that's also exciting but uh but like this month like weeks away if not days now
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01:13:56 ◼ ► fm it is time for some ask upgrade questions i was worried that there could have been a backfiring you
01:14:08 ◼ ► know because well they had to power up yeah it's they haven't been used in a little while so they
01:14:11 ◼ ► get shut off to save some power we shut them off at the end of the year but now they're back yep
01:14:16 ◼ ► back for a new year powered up the carbon neutral so we turn them off when they're not needed oh
01:14:21 ◼ ► yeah they're recycled 100 recycled lasers yeah they just fire around the container we just
01:14:26 ◼ ► they use them yeah yeah it's like uh yeah well it's solar power so we get the light from there
01:14:31 ◼ ► and then we generate the lasers connor asks i'm looking to upgrade my intel macbook air and i'm
01:14:37 ◼ ► looking at either the m2 macbook air or the m3 pro macbook pro cost is a factor but i also don't want
01:14:45 ◼ ► to hit a ceiling in a few years i'm on zoom all day for work with an external display then i use
01:14:51 ◼ ► xcode at night for my side project i travel about once a month on average so weight is a consideration
01:14:57 ◼ ► but not a huge one i'm mostly worried about performance what do you think connor should go
01:15:02 ◼ ► with jason well the key phrases i zoom into here are i use xcode and i travel about once a month
01:15:13 ◼ ► so weight is not a huge consideration and i put those two things together and i say especially
01:15:19 ◼ ► since you were coming from an intel macbook air you could look you could get an m2 air and you're
01:15:23 ◼ ► going to be fine you're going to be happy but you also are concerned about hitting a ceiling in a few
01:15:28 ◼ ► years and you're using xcode and you don't travel every week you're traveling once a month and you're
01:15:33 ◼ ► not desperately concerned about weight and so i'm going to say macbook pro i think xcode your the
01:15:40 ◼ ► performance is a concern for you and xcode means that you're actually using it pretty intensely so
01:15:47 ◼ ► that's where i come down is i think you could get an air and it would be fine but i think you're
01:15:52 ◼ ► going to be happier in the long run with the pro because of that xcode use and because the weight
01:15:58 ◼ ► isn't super sensitive for you yeah while i am definitely a team macbook air i do think in this
01:16:05 ◼ ► particular circumstance like if you can stretch to the m3 pro macbook pro you'll probably get more
01:16:10 ◼ ► out of it yeah the xcode was the flag for me if he hadn't said xcode i've been like you know the air
01:16:15 ◼ ► is going to be fine it's going to be good enough for performance and battery and it's nice and
01:16:18 ◼ ► light and it's fine x kind of like okay yeah probably you should try to get a macbook pro
01:16:23 ◼ ► but pro m3 pro like he said yeah i do i i do still pause a little bit on and i am one of these people
01:16:31 ◼ ► just because how my circumstances ended out which is using the macbook pro with an external display
01:16:37 ◼ ► because the display on the macbook pro is so good it's almost like you're robbing yourself or
01:16:41 ◼ ► something which is fresh it's frustrating i can i am still frustrated that apple have not released
01:16:48 ◼ ► a standalone display with the same uh specs as the macbook pro display right with pro version
01:16:54 ◼ ► and stuff like that i think it's you're you're taking this beautiful display and closing it and
01:16:58 ◼ ► then plugging it into an inferior display which is what i do and so many people do it and i think
01:17:03 ◼ ► it's a shame but when you do use it uh as a laptop when you're traveling you'll have a great time
01:17:08 ◼ ► with that display yeah darian writes in and says what do you guys think of my prediction
01:17:15 ◼ ► given the max 40th anniversary on january 24th and accordingly the anniversary of the famous 1984 big
01:17:24 ◼ ► brother ad at the super bowl combined to the launch of the vision pro early early this year
01:17:29 ◼ ► what if we combine all of these things together apple will revisit that history of another super
01:17:35 ◼ ► bowl ad that introduces the largest audience on earth to the new vision of spatial computing
01:17:40 ◼ ► while calling back to the big brother ad and honoring the 40th anniversary all in one shot
01:17:45 ◼ ► well okay largest audience on earth doesn't see the ads they only see the game so that's the first
01:17:49 ◼ ► thing um it is the highest rated i think thing i mean the olympics are this year so i mean pretty
01:17:55 ◼ ► close in endurance uh defense the ads of the super bowl are are like an event they are an audience
01:18:04 ◼ ► unto themselves that's true i think that apple super bowl ad i think yes probably tied to the
01:18:08 ◼ ► 40th anniversary and the big brother ad with vision pro uh i mean it's not impossible that
01:18:13 ◼ ► they'll do something like that i i would have a hard time imagining the vision pro will i don't
01:18:18 ◼ ► know i think there'll be an apple super bowl ad vision pro may be involved it may not be they may
01:18:23 ◼ ► just be like iphone we gotta sell more iphones because the iphone is where they're gonna make
01:18:26 ◼ ► their money but it wouldn't i my answer to darren is maybe like i wouldn't bet against it
01:18:33 ◼ ► but it's a very specific prediction right i will eat a hat you'll eat a hat i will eat a hat if
01:18:40 ◼ ► they do a big brother ad are you kidding me they are big brother now they are big brother don't
01:18:47 ◼ ► nobody mentioned big brother anymore like that is nobody mentioned they can't do that like the last
01:18:52 ◼ ► time we saw the big brother ad and what i think more people living today referencing to is when
01:18:59 ◼ ► fortnight ripped it off about apple about apple yep and i i don't i i i don't pro vision pro
01:19:10 ◼ ► i mean who knows but i would say uh remember the apple did the thing where they where they put the
01:19:16 ◼ ► ipod and the head earbuds in her ears you remember that where apple t faced their own ad no i don't
01:19:24 ◼ ► remember that oh yeah they did it in the ipod era they did it they did a version of the ad where
01:19:29 ◼ ► she's wearing the white earbuds yeah but that was still pre iphone right yeah yeah no i'm just saying
01:19:36 ◼ ► that they've they've tried that i don't i don't i don't think i think there will be an apple ad in
01:19:40 ◼ ► the super bowl and it might be for vision pro but that's about all as far as i would be willing to go
01:19:44 ◼ ► brandon asks what do you think the storage tiers will be for the vision pro i hope there are none
01:19:53 ◼ ► i hope it's yeah one configuration please don't make me choose right like it should have a lot
01:20:00 ◼ ► more than enough it costs three and a half thousand dollars don't make me choose like the
01:20:05 ◼ ► only things that should add expense to this are my prescription lenses and any accessories i want to
01:20:11 ◼ ► buy yes there should not be multiple storage tiers i think when it starts at 34.99 i agree i think
01:20:17 ◼ ► probably not storage tiers and instead you you got to pay for the lenses you got to pay for the cover
01:20:23 ◼ ► you got to pay for an extra battery or an extra cable like there are there are accessory issues
01:20:30 ◼ ► that you'll pay extra for but i i agree with you i hope i and i can't even conceive of what the
01:20:36 ◼ ► tiers would be but like the idea of like well for 34.99 you only get 512 but if you're really going
01:20:43 ◼ ► to use the storage the disc on the headset then we'll bump it up to a terabyte so i have no idea
01:20:53 ◼ ► why i what am i doing with it you know what like why would i need storage downloading a movie but
01:20:58 ◼ ► you probably just stream it right so yeah i i i hope not i i'm with you i hope not and kevin asks
01:21:06 ◼ ► my current television is a 50 inch 1080p plasma instead of dropping thousands on the latest
01:21:11 ◼ ► greatest television do you think i should just wait and get a vision bro i live alone so family
01:21:15 ◼ ► use is not involved oh kevin buy a television kevin yeah i think so like i think so because
01:21:24 ◼ ► then it's just all you can you can have it when you're cooking dinner when you're you know you're
01:21:29 ◼ ► not gonna have a play video games right like you know yeah you buy television honestly if you're
01:21:35 ◼ ► really concerned um and you've got a plasma now like you you get an oled for fairly reasonable
01:21:42 ◼ ► you can get a enormous uh regular non-oled backlit display that does hdr and has local dimming for
01:21:50 ◼ ► under a thousand dollars that's way larger than your current tv so you could also just get a nice
01:21:56 ◼ ► 4k hdr tv and save the rest of your money for a few more years until this all gets shaken out but
01:22:02 ◼ ► i would even if you want to buy a a pricey oled i would buy a pricey old lead buy it just buy it
01:22:09 ◼ ► nice just just treat by tv television and like maybe yo self there will be used for a vision but
01:22:15 ◼ ► i i really don't think it's going to be the only way you'd want to watch stuff was with that i
01:22:21 ◼ ► can't conceive of i can't conceive of that no no and we also don't know the story about like what
01:22:26 ◼ ► apps are going to be there because like it's disney bob eiger says disney plus will be there but like
01:22:31 ◼ ► great point is your tv provider going to be there is netflix going to be there like what's going to
01:22:34 ◼ ► be there and are those going to be good and and that you get you're going to be tethered because
01:22:40 ◼ ► the battery only lasts so long like don't don't do it don't do it's too early there may come a day
01:22:45 ◼ ► where we all say you know what single people who never watch media with other people don't even
01:22:50 ◼ ► need a tv anymore because of the vision pro i don't think we're there yet and i don't think this
01:22:53 ◼ ► new version this first version is going to bring us oh they'll even be like oh there's it's it's
01:22:57 ◼ ► cheap enough that everyone in the house has one like a phone and we can share play and just watch
01:23:01 ◼ ► it like you know like there is a world in which that happens but sure years away anytime soon
01:23:07 ◼ ► yeah right if you would like to send us in your feedback follow-up and questions for ask upgrade
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01:23:55 ◼ ► where john sirocusa was on they were talking about me not being on upgrade much in december
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