Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 486 for November 13th, 2023.

00:00:16 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by ExpressVPN, Zocdoc, Factor, and Oracle.

00:00:22 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason.

00:00:26 ◼   ► You know, Mike, Upgrade 486 is good, but wait until we get to Upgrade Pentium.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Oh man, it's going to be fast.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Is that a PowerPC joke?

00:00:35 ◼   ► No, it's an Intel joke.

00:00:38 ◼   ► The PC list, all of our Windows users know what I'm talking about, huh?

00:00:43 ◼   ► Woo! Windows!

00:00:45 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

00:00:47 ◼   ► All of those four people got the joke.

00:00:50 ◼   ► It was a chip. That was the chip from Intel before the Pentium was a 486.

00:00:56 ◼   ► I have a Snell Talk question for you.

00:00:59 ◼   ► It comes from Tom, who wants to know,

00:01:01 ◼   ► when you put your iPhone into a MagSafe stand for using standby,

00:01:05 ◼   ► so you have it on the whole horizontal,

00:01:08 ◼   ► which orientation is it?

00:01:10 ◼   ► Volume buttons up or volume buttons down?

00:01:14 ◼   ► I think it's...

00:01:16 ◼   ► So what I do is I take it out of my hand and I rotate it counterclockwise.

00:01:21 ◼   ► So I guess the answer there is that side button up, volume buttons down

00:01:26 ◼   ► camera bump up, but it's mostly just a...

00:01:31 ◼   ► I mean, it's really, I think ergonomically, I'm walking over to the stand,

00:01:36 ◼   ► which is in my kitchen, and my hand, I'm holding it.

00:01:41 ◼   ► I think even though I'm usually a left-hander,

00:01:43 ◼   ► I think I put it in the stand with my right hand and I rotate it counterclockwise.

00:01:47 ◼   ► So yeah, I guess I never really think about it, honestly.

00:01:50 ◼   ► I'm using it more though. Here's the funny thing, Mike.

00:01:53 ◼   ► I have the Studio Neat little wooden, very nice wooden thing that holds a MagSafe puck.

00:01:59 ◼   ► It's beautiful. I forget the name of it.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Material dock?

00:02:02 ◼   ► Yeah, but it's just a little tiny one.

00:02:04 ◼   ► It's just a little...

00:02:05 ◼   ► They're all Material dock and then they have different ones.

00:02:07 ◼   ► I see.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Here's the problem. The camera pump on the iPhone 15 is so big

00:02:12 ◼   ► that in order to get it on the charger, you basically need to put it on the charger

00:02:15 ◼   ► and then just slide it until it hits the camera bump.

00:02:17 ◼   ► And that's pretty much where the MagSafe charge is.

00:02:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Yeah, it's huge.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Because this is the thing with the Apple one, right?

00:02:25 ◼   ► The little fold-out travel guy?

00:02:28 ◼   ► That like, it doesn't sit completely flat anymore because the camera bump is so big.

00:02:33 ◼   ► Yeah, so that I have occasionally not set it properly and my phone has not had battery.

00:02:38 ◼   ► So I'm using that and also for standby, I'm using the stand a little bit more

00:02:45 ◼   ► because standby is cool.

00:02:46 ◼   ► And in fact, my standby started doing a thing I hadn't ever noticed it doing before this weekend.

00:02:52 ◼   ► Came out on Saturday morning to make the tea.

00:02:56 ◼   ► And there was on the phone, instead of what it usually is, which is the time and the weather,

00:03:05 ◼   ► it was a live activity that had started from the TV app telling me that Arsenal was playing

00:03:12 ◼   ► and that it was currently nil-nil with like 30 minutes or 20 minutes in.

00:03:18 ◼   ► I haven't seen a live activity on...

00:03:20 ◼   ► I've realized that now because I remember that was the thing that they announced.

00:03:23 ◼   ► I have not seen one.

00:03:24 ◼   ► I think it's enabled in the beta.

00:03:27 ◼   ► I think this must be enabled in the beta because I'm on the beta on my phone.

00:03:31 ◼   ► And I don't think I've ever seen a completely unbitten live activity start for a sports team.

00:03:37 ◼   ► And I saw it all weekend.

00:03:39 ◼   ► I also saw it at times that I didn't want to see it and you kind of have to manage that.

00:03:42 ◼   ► But where they're like, "Hey, the Warriors are starting."

00:03:45 ◼   ► I'm like, "You know, I like the Warriors, but I also like to see the time."

00:03:48 ◼   ► But for Arsenal, it was great because I, as an American middling fan of soccer,

00:03:56 ◼   ► I never remember when they're playing.

00:03:58 ◼   ► And when they're playing at six in the morning, I don't really try very hard to get up.

00:04:01 ◼   ► But because of our time change and all that, I've been getting up earlier lately.

00:04:04 ◼   ► And I was like, "Oh, I'll turn it on."

00:04:06 ◼   ► While I drink my tea in bed in the morning at 6.30 in the morning, I'll turn on Arsenal.

00:04:11 ◼   ► So I did.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Anyway, so live activity fired off.

00:04:13 ◼   ► That was kind of fun too.

00:04:14 ◼   ► So I enjoy being able to explore this feature.

00:04:19 ◼   ► And so I've been trying to use Standby more.

00:04:21 ◼   ► So it's been fun.

00:04:22 ◼   ► I love Standby.

00:04:24 ◼   ► I'm following you in buttons on the top.

00:04:26 ◼   ► I have no reason why.

00:04:27 ◼   ► That's just how I put it in every time.

00:04:29 ◼   ► I have no opinion or reason and everything wants to be like, "Fight me.

00:04:32 ◼   ► This is what the right way is to do it."

00:04:34 ◼   ► And I just, I don't have any reason and don't care.

00:04:37 ◼   ► But that is, I'm just reporting the facts here.

00:04:39 ◼   ► That seems to be how I'm doing it for now.

00:04:43 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of Upgrade,

00:04:46 ◼   ► just go to upgradefeedback.com and you can send in a Snow Talk question of your own.

00:04:52 ◼   ► I have a reminder for you, Upgradians.

00:04:54 ◼   ► Oh.

00:04:55 ◼   ► The Upgradies, the 10th annual Upgradies are coming soon.

00:05:00 ◼   ► Within just a couple of weeks time, the nominations will close on December 5th.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Please go to upgradeies.vote and make your nominations for the 10th annual Upgradies Awards.

00:05:11 ◼   ► This is your duty as an Upgradient to make these nominations to help Jason and I award our favorites

00:05:18 ◼   ► in many categories in early December.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Please go to upgradeies.vote and enter your nominations.

00:05:26 ◼   ► There's a whole compilation process that happens, but I did a little automation I showed you last week

00:05:31 ◼   ► that I think is going to help speed things up a little bit, which is great.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Because it usually takes a really long time.

00:05:36 ◼   ► So I'm excited about it.

00:05:37 ◼   ► It does.

00:05:37 ◼   ► It still does, but it'll be a little bit faster.

00:05:40 ◼   ► But yeah, get those in now.

00:05:41 ◼   ► We want to hear from you.

00:05:42 ◼   ► While we're in this portion of the show, I will also remind you if you would like longer ad-free

00:05:49 ◼   ► version of the show each and every week along with tons of other benefits for being a Relay FM member,

00:05:55 ◼   ► like access to the Relay FM members Discord, which is a cool place to hang out,

00:05:58 ◼   ► and where all the live discussion happens when we record live every week,

00:06:02 ◼   ► go to getupgradeplus.com.

00:06:04 ◼   ► It's just $5 a month or $50 a year.

00:06:06 ◼   ► A bargain, I would say, to get no ads

00:06:09 ◼   ► and longer episodes each and every week.

00:06:11 ◼   ► On this week's Upgrade Plus segment, we're going to be talking about a selection of homekit updates

00:06:16 ◼   ► that Jason has for me, which I'm very excited to hear all about.

00:06:19 ◼   ► It's true.

00:06:19 ◼   ► It's true.

00:06:20 ◼   ► And we have some follow-up.

00:06:22 ◼   ► So I wanted to know from you, Jason, right?

00:06:25 ◼   ► So when we recorded last time, you just published the reviews of the MacBook Pro.

00:06:29 ◼   ► And I feel like--

00:06:31 ◼   ► And the iMac.

00:06:31 ◼   ► And the iMac, of course.

00:06:33 ◼   ► And I feel like over the last couple of years, every time Apple releases a new laptop

00:06:38 ◼   ► or a new-- actually, any of the Apple Silicon products,

00:06:41 ◼   ► there is the review process.

00:06:43 ◼   ► They go out in the world.

00:06:45 ◼   ► And we talk about it.

00:06:47 ◼   ► People make-- the reviewers make their assumptions.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Then it feels like the conversation shifts.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Yes.

00:06:55 ◼   ► In a way that always makes me feel uncomfortable,

00:06:57 ◼   ► because it's like we talk about these things,

00:07:01 ◼   ► we have our opinions, or, you know, I'll talk to you,

00:07:04 ◼   ► you have your opinion, it helps form my opinion,

00:07:05 ◼   ► and that's the conversation that we have.

00:07:07 ◼   ► But then there tends to be this like, "But what about the thermals?"

00:07:11 ◼   ► Or like there was a question that we had on last week's episode,

00:07:14 ◼   ► which is like, we had no experience or information about the Pro chip, for example.

00:07:18 ◼   ► That was just like a nebulous thing out there.

00:07:20 ◼   ► Or like I think back to the Ultra,

00:07:23 ◼   ► when it was like, "Oh, the Ultra is really powerful, super cool."

00:07:26 ◼   ► And then it's like, "But the Mac Pro has no graphics cards!"

00:07:28 ◼   ► Right?

00:07:29 ◼   ► And so like then this like conversation kind of like moves.

00:07:32 ◼   ► And so I just wanted to ask you,

00:07:35 ◼   ► have you had any further opinions

00:07:39 ◼   ► based on how the conversation has gone over the last week?

00:07:41 ◼   ► It's an interesting effect, and I think it's a combination of things.

00:07:44 ◼   ► First off, it's like, you know, we have our opinions,

00:07:47 ◼   ► and I have, you know, done my due diligence as a reviewer,

00:07:51 ◼   ► and I have opinions.

00:07:52 ◼   ► And then it gets done to a wider world,

00:07:54 ◼   ► and naturally different people are going to get different systems,

00:07:56 ◼   ► they're going to have different needs,

00:07:57 ◼   ► they're going to have different perspectives.

00:07:58 ◼   ► I think that's all great.

00:07:59 ◼   ► I do also think there's a tendency though for the internet

00:08:02 ◼   ► to have a discourse that happens

00:08:04 ◼   ► that includes people grinding all the axes that they want to grind.

00:08:07 ◼   ► And it's, you know, it's not, I don't love it,

00:08:10 ◼   ► but like it's, that's what it is.

00:08:12 ◼   ► That's the internet.

00:08:13 ◼   ► It's going to do that, and people are going to do that,

00:08:15 ◼   ► and websites are going to write clickbaity articles

00:08:17 ◼   ► to try and create new gates and new anger

00:08:20 ◼   ► because it is, you know, better than a shrug, right?

00:08:24 ◼   ► And honestly, I feel like my reviews were kind of shrugs,

00:08:26 ◼   ► and a lot of the reviews were kind of shrugs.

00:08:28 ◼   ► And in that kind of environment where it's just like it's a speed boost,

00:08:31 ◼   ► and here's the deal,

00:08:32 ◼   ► and otherwise these things are unchanged,

00:08:34 ◼   ► and you know, it basically is a vacuum into which hot takes

00:08:39 ◼   ► and gripes and things can fill that void,

00:08:42 ◼   ► and there are a lot of people who want to fill them.

00:08:44 ◼   ► And again, I don't love them personally,

00:08:47 ◼   ► but it is a natural part of the process, I think.

00:08:51 ◼   ► The part of the discourse that I don't particularly love in the last week

00:08:59 ◼   ► has been about that base model M3 MacBook Pro.

00:09:02 ◼   ► And the reason I don't, I understand it even though I don't love it.

00:09:07 ◼   ► What I don't love about it is it's very idealistic,

00:09:11 ◼   ► and like, you know, idealism, good on you,

00:09:15 ◼   ► but I've heard a lot of "but it's called MacBook Pro."

00:09:18 ◼   ► And if it's called MacBook Pro, with the word Pro in it,

00:09:22 ◼   ► it should insert what you think is the pro-defining,

00:09:26 ◼   ► category-defining feature.

00:09:28 ◼   ► It should have 16 gigs of RAM.

00:09:30 ◼   ► It should have a bigger SSD.

00:09:32 ◼   ► It should have more ports.

00:09:33 ◼   ► It should support two external displays.

00:09:36 ◼   ► There's a whole lot of "it shoulds."

00:09:38 ◼   ► And the challenge with that is that it doesn't mean anything.

00:09:42 ◼   ► Pro doesn't mean anything.

00:09:44 ◼   ► There's an iPad Pro, right?

00:09:47 ◼   ► There's a Pro chip now for the iPhone, you know,

00:09:52 ◼   ► because there's a Pro iPhone.

00:09:55 ◼   ► What does it all mean?

00:09:56 ◼   ► And the answer is it means what you want it to mean,

00:09:58 ◼   ► it means what Apple wants it to mean.

00:09:59 ◼   ► Apple generally has meant it's nicer.

00:10:01 ◼   ► You know, there is no definition of what a Pro laptop is.

00:10:05 ◼   ► So it's all in the eye of the beholder.

00:10:06 ◼   ► And so if you have a particularly idealistic view,

00:10:10 ◼   ► I mean, first off, you're a pretty hardcore computer nerd

00:10:13 ◼   ► at that point, to have an idealistic view

00:10:14 ◼   ► of what a computer spec should be.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Doesn't, I'm just saying, you know,

00:10:19 ◼   ► it is coming from a very particular perspective.

00:10:22 ◼   ► Not saying it's right or wrong,

00:10:23 ◼   ► just saying it's a particular perspective.

00:10:25 ◼   ► What I would say though, is that what frustrates me

00:10:27 ◼   ► about that discourse, because it's very much strongly implied

00:10:30 ◼   ► that like Apple is making a huge mistake

00:10:32 ◼   ► because they call this system Pro,

00:10:34 ◼   ► but they don't dare to make it a properly Pro system

00:10:37 ◼   ► because it doesn't meet my standards.

00:10:39 ◼   ► And then there's the reality, right?

00:10:41 ◼   ► And the reality, again, and I'm trying to not take this

00:10:45 ◼   ► as like I'm taking Apple's side, 'cause that's not it,

00:10:48 ◼   ► but I am on the side of reality.

00:10:50 ◼   ► I do think it's worth pondering reality

00:10:52 ◼   ► and not just living in idealism.

00:10:54 ◼   ► And in reality, that base 14-inch MacBook Pro

00:10:59 ◼   ► with the M3 chip instead of the M3 Pro

00:11:01 ◼   ► and with eight gigs of RAM, exists for the exact same reason

00:11:06 ◼   ► that the dumb 13-inch Touch Bar MacBook Pro

00:11:08 ◼   ► that we all complained about,

00:11:11 ◼   ► because it was so inferior to the actual MacBook Pro models.

00:11:15 ◼   ► It's the same reason that that thing existed.

00:11:17 ◼   ► And it's an ugly reason, but it's the truth.

00:11:20 ◼   ► It's filthy commerce, right?

00:11:23 ◼   ► Apple isn't gonna compromise on its margins.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Apple knows that there is a market

00:11:30 ◼   ► for a sub-$2,000 MacBook Pro that they need to hit

00:11:34 ◼   ► because there are people who insist on buying something

00:11:37 ◼   ► with the label Pro, but won't spend two grand on it.

00:11:42 ◼   ► And this isn't somebody who's a legitimate Pro

00:11:45 ◼   ► who spends 1800.

00:11:47 ◼   ► This is a corporate buyer or somebody

00:11:49 ◼   ► who wants something nice and is willing to buy something

00:11:53 ◼   ► with terrible specs or with a Touch Bar.

00:11:56 ◼   ► But they're not gonna spend $2,000 on that laptop.

00:12:00 ◼   ► It's gonna be 1300 or now maybe 1600.

00:12:03 ◼   ► That's it.

00:12:04 ◼   ► So these products are completely not,

00:12:10 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know how to put it.

00:12:13 ◼   ► These products are not what we would ideally call

00:12:17 ◼   ► a Pro-level system.

00:12:19 ◼   ► The Touch Bar MacBook Pro certainly wasn't that,

00:12:21 ◼   ► and yet it existed for two chip generations.

00:12:24 ◼   ► Why is it?

00:12:25 ◼   ► Because Apple knows that people wanna buy something

00:12:27 ◼   ► called MacBook Pro, and Apple is not willing

00:12:30 ◼   ► to compromise on its margins.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Remember also that the new design for the M1 MacBook Pro,

00:12:35 ◼   ► every time you iterate as Apple an existing product,

00:12:39 ◼   ► the margins go up.

00:12:41 ◼   ► So after two iterations with M3,

00:12:43 ◼   ► they were able to get something with that screen

00:12:47 ◼   ► and that beautiful 14-inch screen

00:12:49 ◼   ► down to still only 1599,

00:12:53 ◼   ► not down to 13, 1299 or whatever, 1599.

00:12:57 ◼   ► So it's still a price increase.

00:12:59 ◼   ► But clearly they are fighting margin,

00:13:02 ◼   ► and they're not willing to give up their margin.

00:13:04 ◼   ► And we could argue like,

00:13:05 ◼   ► oh, in order to service the word Pro,

00:13:09 ◼   ► Apple should give up its margins and sell computers at cost

00:13:12 ◼   ► because you can't use the word Pro.

00:13:13 ◼   ► And like, okay, again, I'm not gonna say they're wrong.

00:13:16 ◼   ► I'm gonna say that that's not a realistic view

00:13:18 ◼   ► of how the world works.

00:13:19 ◼   ► And if you wanna believe that yes,

00:13:20 ◼   ► Apple should not call it Pro, okay.

00:13:23 ◼   ► Or Apple should not, should include more RAM in it

00:13:26 ◼   ► at the same price which is gonna hurt their margins.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Or, I mean, my problem is that I don't know

00:13:32 ◼   ► what the answer is that those people are seeking.

00:13:35 ◼   ► Is it Apple gives up their margins?

00:13:36 ◼   ► Is it Apple, because that's not realistic, again.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Is it Apple should not call any laptop under $2,000 Pro?

00:13:44 ◼   ► Anything without 16 gigs of RAM or more and a Pro processor?

00:13:48 ◼   ► Is that the answer?

00:13:49 ◼   ► That feels very let them eat cake to me.

00:13:52 ◼   ► It does it as a Pro user, does it make you feel better

00:13:57 ◼   ► that there isn't some substandard computer

00:13:59 ◼   ► that somebody buys that they can call Pro

00:14:01 ◼   ► like your computer is Pro

00:14:02 ◼   ► and they've sort of let the rabble in the door?

00:14:04 ◼   ► I mean, it frustrates me

00:14:06 ◼   ► when I hear some of these arguments.

00:14:07 ◼   ► Or should Apple eat its margins

00:14:10 ◼   ► because there is some group of users

00:14:12 ◼   ► who thinks that 16 gigs of RAM should be the minimum

00:14:16 ◼   ► and that nobody should ever be forced, I guess,

00:14:19 ◼   ► to buy a computer with less than that?

00:14:21 ◼   ► Or should these computers just be priced out

00:14:25 ◼   ► of what some group of people can afford?

00:14:26 ◼   ► Also keep in mind, Apple will probably lose sales.

00:14:29 ◼   ► I think Apple will lose some sales

00:14:31 ◼   ► by making the base model $1599 instead of $1299.

00:14:34 ◼   ► They will get some new sales

00:14:37 ◼   ► and they'll convert some to MacBook Air sales,

00:14:39 ◼   ► but they'll also lose some sales from whoever,

00:14:42 ◼   ► whatever corporations are like,

00:14:44 ◼   ► "No, we're not gonna go down that loan.

00:14:46 ◼   ► "We're not gonna buy a MacBook Air."

00:14:48 ◼   ► Anyway, I hear the idealism, I get it.

00:14:52 ◼   ► We all agree more RAM is better, more storage is better,

00:14:56 ◼   ► more external monitors are better,

00:14:59 ◼   ► but we also live in the real world

00:15:01 ◼   ► and I think understanding why Apple does what it does

00:15:03 ◼   ► and I think the attack here is not on that model

00:15:08 ◼   ► for being, that base model for being underpowered.

00:15:14 ◼   ► I think it exists because of the people who are buying it

00:15:19 ◼   ► and Apple knows that.

00:15:20 ◼   ► Apple knows exactly who's buying it.

00:15:22 ◼   ► The truth is Apple always, I would say,

00:15:28 ◼   ► prices their products with a base model that is poor

00:15:32 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:15:33 ◼   ► because they wanna hit a price point, right?

00:15:36 ◼   ► They wanna hit $999 or $1099 or $1599

00:15:40 ◼   ► and they know that somebody's gonna upgrade the RAM

00:15:43 ◼   ► and we all know that that RAM upgrade for $200

00:15:47 ◼   ► is way overpriced for what it should be in our opinions

00:15:51 ◼   ► given the rest of the RAM market.

00:15:54 ◼   ► I get the raging, I guess, but it frustrates me

00:15:59 ◼   ► because it strikes me as that a lot of it

00:16:01 ◼   ► is sort of naively idealistic and it's like,

00:16:04 ◼   ► "Well, sure, I want an M3 Max for $1,000."

00:16:09 ◼   ► But that's not gonna happen.

00:16:11 ◼   ► So I understand the frustration here,

00:16:13 ◼   ► but it's also, just to wrap it up, it's not new.

00:16:16 ◼   ► I'll just say that again.

00:16:17 ◼   ► This is the exact same thing

00:16:19 ◼   ► as the dumb 13-inch Touch Bar MacBook Pro.

00:16:21 ◼   ► It's the exact same reason.

00:16:22 ◼   ► It is a substandard computer for what's on the label

00:16:26 ◼   ► because some people buy the label.

00:16:28 ◼   ► That's what it is.

00:16:29 ◼   ► It's not great.

00:16:30 ◼   ► My review, I really don't think that most people

00:16:35 ◼   ► who care enough to be concerned about the eight gigs of RAM

00:16:38 ◼   ► should buy it regardless.

00:16:40 ◼   ► I think they should buy the base model of the M3 Pro

00:16:43 ◼   ► because it's not that much more money.

00:16:45 ◼   ► And if you've got a few hundred dollars more,

00:16:47 ◼   ► you're gonna get more RAM

00:16:49 ◼   ► and you're gonna get the better chip.

00:16:51 ◼   ► But I know why this product exists.

00:16:53 ◼   ► This product, I mean, honestly,

00:16:54 ◼   ► this product isn't for nerds who care about specs.

00:16:56 ◼   ► It's not.

00:16:57 ◼   ► It's for corporate buyers and other people

00:16:59 ◼   ► who refuse to buy a MacBook Air

00:17:00 ◼   ► because it's a baby computer, even though it's not.

00:17:03 ◼   ► And because this is a pro computer,

00:17:05 ◼   ► because it's called pro.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Even though, yes, I think we can all agree

00:17:10 ◼   ► that in an ideal world,

00:17:11 ◼   ► a computer spec like this shouldn't be called MacBook Pro.

00:17:14 ◼   ► I get it.

00:17:15 ◼   ► But it frustrates me

00:17:17 ◼   ► because I don't think those arguments

00:17:21 ◼   ► are living in the real world.

00:17:23 ◼   ► - Very well put.

00:17:24 ◼   ► I think the only thing that I would add

00:17:26 ◼   ► is kind of like building on what you were saying

00:17:28 ◼   ► about like being realistic and the product naming.

00:17:31 ◼   ► I feel like pro for Apple lives on this kind of scale now

00:17:35 ◼   ► of mentality to branding.

00:17:37 ◼   ► And so I've kind of listed down all of the products

00:17:40 ◼   ► that I can think of that Apple's called pro in recent memory

00:17:44 ◼   ► from like at the very beginning of this list,

00:17:47 ◼   ► this is pro by mentality to the end of this list.

00:17:51 ◼   ► This is pro by branding.

00:17:52 ◼   ► So you've got Mac Pro, iMac Pro, MacBook Pro,

00:17:56 ◼   ► iPad Pro, iPhone Pro, AirPods Pro.

00:18:00 ◼   ► When you get down to that very end, the AirPods Pro,

00:18:02 ◼   ► that is not a professional product.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Like a professional would not use AirPods in their work.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Because there are Bluetooth headphones,

00:18:11 ◼   ► they have latency and/or they don't sound as good

00:18:13 ◼   ► as other products on the market.

00:18:15 ◼   ► - And you can't plug them into a lossless source

00:18:17 ◼   ► and all those things.

00:18:18 ◼   ► - Mac Pros are literally only bought by professionals

00:18:21 ◼   ► 'cause you would be out of your mind to do it otherwise.

00:18:25 ◼   ► Especially now.

00:18:26 ◼   ► And then in the middle--

00:18:27 ◼   ► - I would question that iMac Pro.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Remember when the iMac Pro came out and people said,

00:18:30 ◼   ► "How can this be considered pro?

00:18:31 ◼   ► "It doesn't have slots."

00:18:33 ◼   ► But it was though.

00:18:34 ◼   ► Over its life we learned--

00:18:35 ◼   ► - Let's see how our processors repeat for you.

00:18:37 ◼   ► - It was for professionals.

00:18:38 ◼   ► And then when you get into the middle,

00:18:40 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro and the iPad Pro,

00:18:42 ◼   ► they are products that professionals in the class

00:18:46 ◼   ► that would buy this product would buy.

00:18:49 ◼   ► So you get the expensive MacBook Pros,

00:18:51 ◼   ► the expensive iPad Pros used by people

00:18:53 ◼   ► doing professional work.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Whether it's artists for the iPad Pro

00:18:57 ◼   ► or it's coders for the MacBook Pro.

00:18:59 ◼   ► But both the MacBook Pro and the iPad Pro

00:19:02 ◼   ► is where things start to shift.

00:19:03 ◼   ► Where these products are bought by people

00:19:05 ◼   ► who are doing consumer level work on them.

00:19:08 ◼   ► - That's why they're game demos about the MacBook Pro.

00:19:12 ◼   ► And you think to yourself,

00:19:13 ◼   ► "Well, you're buying a $7,000 MacBook Pro to play games."

00:19:15 ◼   ► And the answer is, "No, you're not."

00:19:17 ◼   ► You're buying a 1599 MacBook Pro to play games.

00:19:20 ◼   ► Or maybe a $2,000 MacBook Pro to play games.

00:19:22 ◼   ► And people do.

00:19:23 ◼   ► And they're allowed to.

00:19:25 ◼   ► They don't have to show their Pro card and say,

00:19:26 ◼   ► "Yes, I realize that eight gigs of RAM is not enough."

00:19:29 ◼   ► They don't have to do that.

00:19:31 ◼   ► They can just buy it because they want it.

00:19:33 ◼   ► 'Cause it's nice.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Because that is definitely...

00:19:35 ◼   ► One of our listeners did their whole thesis on this

00:19:37 ◼   ► and sent it to me.

00:19:38 ◼   ► I actually have a copy of his thesis.

00:19:39 ◼   ► I forget his name now.

00:19:40 ◼   ► But it was absolutely...

00:19:45 ◼   ► It means that it's nice.

00:19:46 ◼   ► It was Taylor.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Listener Taylor.

00:19:47 ◼   ► - Is that the one we would quote it in?

00:19:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, that was cool.

00:19:50 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:19:51 ◼   ► But it's a signifier.

00:19:52 ◼   ► It doesn't always mean what you...

00:19:54 ◼   ► Even, and this is the thing about branding, right?

00:19:57 ◼   ► All of us get to decide what the brand means to us.

00:20:00 ◼   ► All of us do, right?

00:20:02 ◼   ► The mistake is when you believe that that is what it means

00:20:05 ◼   ► or should mean to everyone.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Because a good chance it doesn't, right?

00:20:09 ◼   ► MacBook Pro and iPad Pro are great examples, Mike,

00:20:12 ◼   ► of...

00:20:13 ◼   ► I know it says Pro on it.

00:20:15 ◼   ► And you may be a pro who uses it for professional reasons.

00:20:18 ◼   ► But that's not always what it means.

00:20:22 ◼   ► - And also, the other part of this,

00:20:24 ◼   ► like this scale of branding versus mentality

00:20:27 ◼   ► that I'm thinking about.

00:20:29 ◼   ► People know where they sit in this.

00:20:32 ◼   ► And then you make the decisions, right?

00:20:33 ◼   ► So if you want MacBook Pro for the branding,

00:20:37 ◼   ► then you'll get the entry level.

00:20:39 ◼   ► But if you're a professional,

00:20:40 ◼   ► you know what you're buying, right?

00:20:43 ◼   ► If you are a...

00:20:44 ◼   ► You need professional scale computer,

00:20:48 ◼   ► you do not buy the entry level MacBook Pro.

00:20:50 ◼   ► You're not buying it, right?

00:20:52 ◼   ► 'Cause you should know what you need to do your work.

00:20:55 ◼   ► You're not gonna be like, "Oh, it says Pro on it.

00:20:57 ◼   ► It's definitely gonna be okay for me."

00:20:59 ◼   ► Like, you're a professional, right?

00:21:01 ◼   ► That you understand what you need from your tools.

00:21:05 ◼   ► You're a professional.

00:21:07 ◼   ► - Right.

00:21:08 ◼   ► One of the problems that I've had in the last week

00:21:10 ◼   ► is hearing and reading professionals

00:21:15 ◼   ► who are expert computer users,

00:21:18 ◼   ► who are probably going to buy,

00:21:19 ◼   ► if they buy in this generation,

00:21:21 ◼   ► the M3 Macs MacBook Pro,

00:21:26 ◼   ► saying essentially,

00:21:29 ◼   ► I know they didn't say it this way,

00:21:30 ◼   ► but this is how I read it.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Essentially, Apple shouldn't sell

00:21:35 ◼   ► eight gigs of RAM as the base model,

00:21:38 ◼   ► because some people are too dumb

00:21:40 ◼   ► to know that that's not enough.

00:21:43 ◼   ► That's how I read it.

00:21:44 ◼   ► And it's like, you know what?

00:21:45 ◼   ► They're not too dumb.

00:21:46 ◼   ► They have a budget or they don't care.

00:21:49 ◼   ► And will it mean that their computer runs a little slower

00:21:52 ◼   ► when they've got lots of Chrome tabs?

00:21:53 ◼   ► Yes, it will.

00:21:55 ◼   ► It's not ideal,

00:21:57 ◼   ► but we don't live in that ideal world.

00:22:00 ◼   ► We just don't.

00:22:02 ◼   ► And the alternative, I don't like the alternative,

00:22:05 ◼   ► which is no, no, no, no, no.

00:22:06 ◼   ► If you don't have $2,000 to buy a MacBook Pro,

00:22:08 ◼   ► you shouldn't buy a MacBook Pro.

00:22:10 ◼   ► Shouldn't be labeled that way.

00:22:11 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, well, no.

00:22:13 ◼   ► Apple's decided no, the market has decided no.

00:22:16 ◼   ► It's not gonna happen.

00:22:17 ◼   ► And like I said,

00:22:18 ◼   ► Apple's not gonna sell 16 gigs of RAM for 1599.

00:22:22 ◼   ► They're not.

00:22:23 ◼   ► Maybe 1699 or 1799.

00:22:25 ◼   ► Like if they made it the base, it would probably be 1699.

00:22:29 ◼   ► I'm sure they looked at that.

00:22:30 ◼   ► And they decided like, no,

00:22:32 ◼   ► that kills too much of our market

00:22:33 ◼   ► because there's a market down there

00:22:34 ◼   ► that doesn't wanna spend a lot of money,

00:22:36 ◼   ► but once pro is the label.

00:22:38 ◼   ► And they're gonna get it one way or another.

00:22:41 ◼   ► At least the touch bar is gone.

00:22:43 ◼   ► - This is way too big of a conversation for today.

00:22:48 ◼   ► I feel like, and I'm just gonna say this and move on.

00:22:50 ◼   ► I feel like too much discourse today online

00:22:53 ◼   ► is focused around fake people

00:22:56 ◼   ► that people create in their minds.

00:22:58 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, sure. - And then make arguments

00:23:00 ◼   ► for that person that doesn't exist.

00:23:03 ◼   ► - Right.

00:23:04 ◼   ► - Brock wrote in to say,

00:23:05 ◼   ► to further add to the confirmation

00:23:07 ◼   ► that the plans for the bigger iMac is likely dead,

00:23:10 ◼   ► the text for the iMac shown in the banner

00:23:12 ◼   ► of Apple's Mac page on their website

00:23:15 ◼   ► was updated to say, from iMac 24 to simply iMac.

00:23:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, the URL changed too.

00:23:22 ◼   ► It's apple.com/mac/imac.

00:23:26 ◼   ► And it used to be iMac-24.

00:23:28 ◼   ► It's not anymore.

00:23:30 ◼   ► - Not anymore.

00:23:31 ◼   ► It's just the iMac.

00:23:32 ◼   ► That's the whole problem.

00:23:33 ◼   ► - How many ways can we tell you that we are never,

00:23:37 ◼   ► ever getting back together?

00:23:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

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00:25:25 ◼   ► It's time for the details.

00:25:29 ◼   ► So we're gonna spend more time in a future episode

00:25:34 ◼   ► actually looking at 17.2 'cause there's a lot in there.

00:25:37 ◼   ► I've said for weeks now that we were gonna do this

00:25:41 ◼   ► and things keep happening that's putting it off.

00:25:42 ◼   ► - Things keep happening.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Yeah, those live activities I think.

00:25:45 ◼   ► - Indeed. - Those live activities

00:25:46 ◼   ► in standby, I think that's gotta be a 17.2 thing.

00:25:49 ◼   ► I wasn't getting those before.

00:25:50 ◼   ► So there's stuff happening, things are happening.

00:25:52 ◼   ► - And we can keep pushing it because 17.2 isn't out yet.

00:25:56 ◼   ► So it's like this is a thing we can get to

00:25:58 ◼   ► when there isn't other more important things to talk about.

00:26:01 ◼   ► But this week Apple not only dropped in the beta

00:26:06 ◼   ► the ability this past week to record spatial videos

00:26:09 ◼   ► on the iPhone, so now on the iPhone

00:26:10 ◼   ► you can scroll to one of the many, many, many things

00:26:13 ◼   ► you can scroll through now in the camera app.

00:26:15 ◼   ► - Well, it's not a scroll, it's a button you turn on.

00:26:18 ◼   ► So there's a setting in photos that allows you to do

00:26:21 ◼   ► in the photo settings of the settings app.

00:26:25 ◼   ► - The camera? - That lets you

00:26:27 ◼   ► do advanced, it's like where you set

00:26:31 ◼   ► all that kind of advanced features of like,

00:26:33 ◼   ► you wanna capture raw and all those things.

00:26:36 ◼   ► And one of the switches down there is capture 3D video,

00:26:39 ◼   ► capture spatial video.

00:26:40 ◼   ► - Then how do you actually make the capture?

00:26:42 ◼   ► - You're in the video tab and there's a little button

00:26:46 ◼   ► that is a picture of a Vision Pro.

00:26:48 ◼   ► And if you tap it and it lights up yellow

00:26:50 ◼   ► and then you are recording only horizontally,

00:26:53 ◼   ► only in 1080p 30.

00:26:56 ◼   ► And that's how you do it.

00:26:58 ◼   ► So it's just a mode of video capture.

00:27:00 ◼   ► It's not a special spatial video thing you swipe to.

00:27:03 ◼   ► - That's cool actually.

00:27:04 ◼   ► 'Cause my hope is that in the future

00:27:07 ◼   ► this will work like a live photo works in that,

00:27:11 ◼   ► like once they've gotten better at this,

00:27:13 ◼   ► that like you can just record video,

00:27:15 ◼   ► but it will also capture the data

00:27:16 ◼   ► or like will also capture a second video or something.

00:27:19 ◼   ► That's my hope for the future.

00:27:20 ◼   ► - Well, you could always leave this on.

00:27:22 ◼   ► You're just gonna only get 1080p 30.

00:27:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, which is not. - And the reason for that is--

00:27:26 ◼   ► - And you can only record horizontally too.

00:27:29 ◼   ► - And you can only record horizontally.

00:27:30 ◼   ► And the reason for that is you've gotta have two cameras

00:27:33 ◼   ► next to each other so that you can do the parallax effect.

00:27:36 ◼   ► And that means it has to be horizontal.

00:27:38 ◼   ► And then they moved it so that it's the ultra wide

00:27:42 ◼   ► and the wide that are together

00:27:44 ◼   ► and that the telephoto is elsewhere.

00:27:47 ◼   ► And the reason to do that is that they can crop

00:27:50 ◼   ► the ultra wide to have it match the wide

00:27:53 ◼   ► and you end up with a usable set pair of images

00:27:56 ◼   ► that are offset to generate a 3D video.

00:27:59 ◼   ► But once you crop the ultra wide

00:28:01 ◼   ► to the same field of view as the wide, guess what?

00:28:04 ◼   ► You can't do the resolution, the beautiful resolution

00:28:07 ◼   ► that you would normally get in the wide.

00:28:09 ◼   ► And you're down to, essentially they were not happy

00:28:13 ◼   ► with anything other than 1080p 30.

00:28:16 ◼   ► So that's where we are for now.

00:28:18 ◼   ► I would put money on the fact that Apple is working

00:28:22 ◼   ► on their camera stack to make it more capable

00:28:26 ◼   ► of shooting 3D video.

00:28:28 ◼   ► And I would also not be surprised if the long run,

00:28:31 ◼   ► not only are they focused on having the higher quality

00:28:34 ◼   ► on the cameras so that their 3D video

00:28:36 ◼   ► is of a higher resolution, but that they make it

00:28:38 ◼   ► so that their camera stack works 90 degrees from each other

00:28:43 ◼   ► so that they can do vertical as well as horizontal.

00:28:46 ◼   ► - I didn't know this until I read some of these stories

00:28:50 ◼   ► that with the new iPhone, they rearranged

00:28:53 ◼   ► where the cameras were placed so that this would work.

00:28:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, that was part of the agenda.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it feels like this was a, nothing's a quick swap,

00:29:02 ◼   ► but it feels like this was, this is not a complete

00:29:06 ◼   ► rethinking of the iPhone's camera system

00:29:08 ◼   ► so far as I can tell, as it is, we're gonna need

00:29:10 ◼   ► to do 3D capture on the iPhone and they made it work.

00:29:14 ◼   ► But what I'm saying is I would probably put money

00:29:17 ◼   ► on a future camera stack design that is more specifically

00:29:22 ◼   ► designed to be capable of shooting spatial video.

00:29:27 ◼   ► - So they introduced spatial video recording on the iPhone

00:29:31 ◼   ► and then in conjunction with that, Apple brought in

00:29:33 ◼   ► a selection of journalists who experience some of these

00:29:36 ◼   ► spatial videos recorded on iPhones on a Vision Pro.

00:29:40 ◼   ► So more people got in to go in, try on Vision Pros again,

00:29:44 ◼   ► it seemed like quite a select group.

00:29:45 ◼   ► The response to this overall was once again very positive

00:29:49 ◼   ► from everyone about kind of the experience

00:29:50 ◼   ► of using the Vision Pro.

00:29:52 ◼   ► And I particularly liked this quote from Joanna Stern

00:29:54 ◼   ► because Joanna kind of sums up my initial feelings

00:29:58 ◼   ► of the demo that we had of seeing these spatial videos.

00:30:02 ◼   ► So Stern says, "Apple showed me some other spatial videos

00:30:05 ◼   ► and one, a dad was telling his young kids a story

00:30:07 ◼   ► in the back of an RV.

00:30:08 ◼   ► It was so lifelike and cozy that it almost creeped me out.

00:30:11 ◼   ► Why am I spying on this random family?"

00:30:13 ◼   ► That's obviously the big appeal here, spatial videos

00:30:15 ◼   ► create intimacy in ways 2D videos and photos don't.

00:30:19 ◼   ► So like the technology is really cool, but if it's not

00:30:21 ◼   ► your videos, it makes you feel kind of weird

00:30:23 ◼   ► 'cause it's so good.

00:30:24 ◼   ► So I thought that this is interesting as a way

00:30:28 ◼   ► of getting like a new renewed focus on the product again

00:30:31 ◼   ► and then having these like smaller experiences

00:30:34 ◼   ► for people to talk about ahead of kind of, I guess,

00:30:36 ◼   ► a re-reveal of the product next year.

00:30:38 ◼   ► I thought this was very clever from Apple to kind of like

00:30:41 ◼   ► keep throwing the breadcrumbs out there for now.

00:30:44 ◼   ► - And they didn't get to, you know,

00:30:45 ◼   ► they're gonna release that capture feature.

00:30:46 ◼   ► They did release that capture feature in beta.

00:30:49 ◼   ► And so people are gonna talk about it.

00:30:51 ◼   ► People are gonna reverse engineer the file format.

00:30:55 ◼   ► All those things are gonna happen.

00:30:56 ◼   ► I actually am, I haven't looked, but I'm assuming

00:30:59 ◼   ► that at some point I'm gonna be able to look the stuff

00:31:01 ◼   ► that I've captured already.

00:31:02 ◼   ► Look at that in, on my quest, right?

00:31:07 ◼   ► 'Cause somebody will reverse engineer it

00:31:09 ◼   ► or find a way to play it or something

00:31:11 ◼   ► and have it be like a 3D, you know, thing

00:31:16 ◼   ► in other video players.

00:31:17 ◼   ► I imagine that will happen.

00:31:19 ◼   ► It's just a heath package, right?

00:31:23 ◼   ► With two videos in it.

00:31:24 ◼   ► And when you play it back, you only see one of them.

00:31:26 ◼   ► Anyway, I did capture some this weekend,

00:31:29 ◼   ► just thinking this is gonna, you know,

00:31:33 ◼   ► build up a library now for when the Vision Pro comes out.

00:31:36 ◼   ► - The 17.2 betas are also showing indication

00:31:39 ◼   ► that 3D movies are finding their way to the Apple TV app

00:31:43 ◼   ► with a new icon that shows an outline of a Vision Pro

00:31:46 ◼   ► with the word, well, the character's 3D overlaid on top.

00:31:50 ◼   ► MacRumors are reporting that quote,

00:31:52 ◼   ► "3D titles seen in the Apple TV app include

00:31:55 ◼   ► "Jurassic World Domination, Pacific Rim, Uprising,

00:31:57 ◼   ► "Shrek, Trolls, Warcraft, Minions, The Rise of Gru,

00:32:02 ◼   ► "Mortal Engines, Everest, Kung Fu Panda 3, and more."

00:32:05 ◼   ► What a ragtag selection of movies there.

00:32:10 ◼   ► They're just loading them in, they're loading them in.

00:32:11 ◼   ► - People are, they're loading them in, that's it.

00:32:13 ◼   ► I expect that at launch, I think somebody said

00:32:16 ◼   ► that they saw Hugo in there, and that's a really good 3D movie.

00:32:21 ◼   ► But yeah, I would imagine since Hollywood generally

00:32:24 ◼   ► has 3D versions of most of their movies,

00:32:25 ◼   ► that they will put them in there,

00:32:27 ◼   ► because this is an opportunity for them to be seen.

00:32:30 ◼   ► And the 3D TV market didn't really take off.

00:32:32 ◼   ► So having 3D titles available in Vision Pro

00:32:36 ◼   ► seems like a pretty, like, absolutely makes sense to me.

00:32:41 ◼   ► - This is making it all feel like the Vision Pro

00:32:44 ◼   ► is in fact very close, right?

00:32:46 ◼   ► That like, there are now these other bits of the system

00:32:49 ◼   ► that need to be put in place.

00:32:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I said something on Mastodon this weekend.

00:32:54 ◼   ► I said that I went to, at the Cal game this weekend,

00:32:57 ◼   ► I captured, like I captured, which for me is like,

00:33:00 ◼   ► even from when I was a kid, is like the moment,

00:33:02 ◼   ► which is when you come through the tunnel

00:33:04 ◼   ► and out into the stands, and this field opens up to you,

00:33:07 ◼   ► and you're in the canyon, and the hills are in the background

00:33:09 ◼   ► and all of those things.

00:33:11 ◼   ► And so I captured that in Spatial.

00:33:14 ◼   ► And then I did some, like the band and stuff like that.

00:33:17 ◼   ► I just did a few, and my whole thought process

00:33:19 ◼   ► was capture it now while this is happening.

00:33:22 ◼   ► And in the winter, you know,

00:33:24 ◼   ► when there are no football games to capture,

00:33:26 ◼   ► I will be able to relive this moment

00:33:28 ◼   ► and see how it makes me feel and all those things, right?

00:33:30 ◼   ► I was like, I like thinking ahead.

00:33:32 ◼   ► And somebody on Mastodon replied and said,

00:33:34 ◼   ► "You wish winter."

00:33:36 ◼   ► And I said, okay, first off, I don't wish anything.

00:33:38 ◼   ► I don't care.

00:33:39 ◼   ► It's not my job to ship the product.

00:33:41 ◼   ► And they backed off and said something like,

00:33:43 ◼   ► "Oh, I meant everybody."

00:33:44 ◼   ► I'm like, well, that's not what you said.

00:33:45 ◼   ► You said you wish.

00:33:46 ◼   ► But I am, despite that person,

00:33:51 ◼   ► I am actually pretty confident that this is a winter thing.

00:33:55 ◼   ► I just, I think it's gonna come sooner than people think.

00:33:59 ◼   ► I don't have anything to back that up

00:34:00 ◼   ► other than that Apple seems to be continuing to say

00:34:03 ◼   ► early next year.

00:34:04 ◼   ► And my understanding is the hardware

00:34:05 ◼   ► has been done a long time

00:34:07 ◼   ► and that they're working real hard on the software.

00:34:09 ◼   ► And I would be surprised if it lingers

00:34:12 ◼   ► into spring, into the second quarter.

00:34:15 ◼   ► I think it'll be earlier than that.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Maybe a lot earlier than that.

00:34:18 ◼   ► - The thing that surprises me is,

00:34:20 ◼   ► I have not seen any indication

00:34:23 ◼   ► that developer kits have ever been shipped.

00:34:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true.

00:34:28 ◼   ► That's true.

00:34:29 ◼   ► I mean, if there have been,

00:34:30 ◼   ► there haven't been leaks and nobody's talking about it.

00:34:32 ◼   ► - And I just don't believe that there is any way

00:34:35 ◼   ► that they could be shipping them

00:34:36 ◼   ► to individual developers or small companies.

00:34:40 ◼   ► And at least the existence of that fact

00:34:42 ◼   ► would not have gotten out there.

00:34:44 ◼   ► And I have not seen that or heard that from anyone.

00:34:48 ◼   ► And so like, that's the surprising thing to me,

00:34:51 ◼   ► just because they made people submit those forms

00:34:54 ◼   ► so long ago now, right?

00:34:56 ◼   ► Like within a couple of weeks after it was announced.

00:34:59 ◼   ► - We know they're bringing retail employees into Cupertino.

00:35:03 ◼   ► I think that's early next year.

00:35:04 ◼   ► - And they're doing more like the developer labs

00:35:06 ◼   ► are expanding them across different territories,

00:35:09 ◼   ► which is good, like they're doing that, right?

00:35:11 ◼   ► But yeah, that has been the surprising thing to me.

00:35:14 ◼   ► I still believe it's on track for early,

00:35:15 ◼   ► but I'm kind of wondering why they bothered

00:35:18 ◼   ► with the developer kit thing.

00:35:20 ◼   ► - I mean, maybe they shifted directions

00:35:22 ◼   ► and they've focused on expanding

00:35:23 ◼   ► those developer kitchen sessions instead.

00:35:25 ◼   ► - And maybe the developer kits just come out

00:35:27 ◼   ► when the product comes out,

00:35:28 ◼   ► because they're being realistic.

00:35:29 ◼   ► - Well, that's what I was thinking,

00:35:30 ◼   ► is it may just get to the point where they're like,

00:35:32 ◼   ► you know what, let's just ship this.

00:35:35 ◼   ► Why are we going through this other process?

00:35:36 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:35:37 ◼   ► And it's possible that it is delayed.

00:35:38 ◼   ► I just, I don't get those vibes.

00:35:40 ◼   ► I just don't feel like it's gonna be,

00:35:42 ◼   ► Tim Cook is still real,

00:35:45 ◼   ► sounds real confident about it.

00:35:47 ◼   ► - No, I still think it's coming like in January, February.

00:35:50 ◼   ► Like I feel very confident.

00:35:51 ◼   ► - Early next year.

00:35:53 ◼   ► I don't think May is early next year, right?

00:35:57 ◼   ► I don't think April is early next year.

00:35:59 ◼   ► I think it will be- - I think it's before

00:36:00 ◼   ► the spring, like I'm on your board here.

00:36:01 ◼   ► - I agree.

00:36:03 ◼   ► Yeah, thank you.

00:36:03 ◼   ► - Anytime.

00:36:05 ◼   ► - Welcome to the board.

00:36:08 ◼   ► You're on the Jason board now.

00:36:09 ◼   ► That's great.

00:36:10 ◼   ► I'm the chairman, but you can be on it.

00:36:11 ◼   ► - I'm happy for that.

00:36:12 ◼   ► That's no problem with me.

00:36:13 ◼   ► - Okay, thank you.

00:36:15 ◼   ► It's a diving board though.

00:36:16 ◼   ► Bad news.

00:36:17 ◼   ► - Sure, okay.

00:36:19 ◼   ► It is rumor roundup time.

00:36:21 ◼   ► - Woo, yee-haw.

00:36:22 ◼   ► - We have so much rumor roundup

00:36:26 ◼   ► that we are going to be breaking rumor roundup today

00:36:29 ◼   ► into a selection of different products.

00:36:34 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:36:35 ◼   ► - Is what we're gonna be doing.

00:36:36 ◼   ► I'm going to start- - Many rumors roundup.

00:36:38 ◼   ► - Many rumors to be rounded.

00:36:39 ◼   ► I'm going to start today with iPad and Mac.

00:36:43 ◼   ► That's where we're gonna begin.

00:36:45 ◼   ► So the Elec has some details about the OLED displays

00:36:50 ◼   ► that will power future iPads and Macs.

00:36:54 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:36:55 ◼   ► - Apple are going to be working with LG display

00:36:57 ◼   ► to put together an OLED package,

00:36:59 ◼   ► which is custom for them, for Apple,

00:37:01 ◼   ► to sit in both the 11 and 13 inch iPad Pros

00:37:05 ◼   ► on schedule for next year

00:37:07 ◼   ► with a MacBook for 2027.

00:37:10 ◼   ► - Just another report of what we've heard before.

00:37:12 ◼   ► - Yep. - Really?

00:37:13 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:37:14 ◼   ► This is like more confirmation stuff, right?

00:37:16 ◼   ► This is the interesting part to me.

00:37:18 ◼   ► This is new.

00:37:20 ◼   ► Is it, I don't know, it's not wall breaking,

00:37:21 ◼   ► but the panels that Apple would be using

00:37:24 ◼   ► will feature what's called a two stack tandem structure,

00:37:26 ◼   ► which features two light emitting layers on the display

00:37:30 ◼   ► so that brightness levels are maintained

00:37:32 ◼   ► from the like LCD and micro LED.

00:37:35 ◼   ► Is it micro LED that's in the iPad Pro now?

00:37:39 ◼   ► Or is it mini LED? - Mini.

00:37:40 ◼   ► - Mini LED? - Mini LED, yeah.

00:37:42 ◼   ► - So they will retain the brightness levels from OLED

00:37:45 ◼   ► 'cause typically OLED is not as bright.

00:37:48 ◼   ► I found out from this

00:37:49 ◼   ► that the iPhone uses a single stack OLED.

00:37:52 ◼   ► So this must be a harder problem with larger displays

00:37:55 ◼   ► to keep the brightness level up.

00:37:56 ◼   ► - I think that's right.

00:37:57 ◼   ► And the stack, I mean, the LCD panels,

00:38:00 ◼   ► what you've got is you've got a screen

00:38:02 ◼   ► and then behind it, you've got these individual arrays,

00:38:05 ◼   ► these arrays of individual LCDs that are coming on

00:38:09 ◼   ► or LEDs that are coming on, not LCDs,

00:38:13 ◼   ► LEDs that are behind the LCD panel.

00:38:16 ◼   ► And that's how you get the brightness

00:38:18 ◼   ► is that they light up more or less.

00:38:20 ◼   ► And the more of them, if you had a one-to-one,

00:38:21 ◼   ► you'd basically have OLED, right?

00:38:23 ◼   ► And that's what micro LED is sort of supposed to be

00:38:26 ◼   ► as a technology.

00:38:28 ◼   ► So I don't know what they're doing here,

00:38:29 ◼   ► but it sounds like maybe they're doing something like this

00:38:31 ◼   ► where there's an OLED layer

00:38:33 ◼   ► and then below it, there is another light layer,

00:38:36 ◼   ► whether it's OLED or whether it's some other LED layer

00:38:41 ◼   ► to give it that boost.

00:38:42 ◼   ► This is a big deal because maybe, I mean, the iPad,

00:38:46 ◼   ► it's important that the iPad be bright,

00:38:49 ◼   ► taken outside and taken in all sorts of bright environments

00:38:52 ◼   ► is really important.

00:38:53 ◼   ► How many times have I said that big, bright,

00:38:56 ◼   ► beautiful screen about the MacBook Pro since it came out?

00:38:59 ◼   ► If they replaced that with OLED in 25, 26, 27,

00:39:03 ◼   ► whenever it is, they can't regress, right?

00:39:06 ◼   ► Like you can't go back to being like,

00:39:08 ◼   ► "Oh, well, it's OLED,

00:39:09 ◼   ► "but it's much dimmer than it was before."

00:39:11 ◼   ► I don't think they can do that.

00:39:12 ◼   ► And so- - I don't think people

00:39:13 ◼   ► would appreciate the benefit of OLED in that case.

00:39:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, and OLEDs are dark generally.

00:39:19 ◼   ► OLEDs don't get super bright.

00:39:20 ◼   ► One of the reasons I don't have an OLED TV

00:39:22 ◼   ► in my living room is that my living room has a giant set

00:39:25 ◼   ► of windows and French doors on one side

00:39:28 ◼   ► and modern OLEDs would probably not be bright enough

00:39:33 ◼   ► for me to watch like a football game during the day.

00:39:36 ◼   ► So that's a challenge for Apple to solve here.

00:39:38 ◼   ► - One of the things I found interesting from this report

00:39:43 ◼   ► is like, if this is based on facts, right?

00:39:47 ◼   ► Not just, there's not speculation in this part

00:39:49 ◼   ► that it is referencing an 11 and 13,

00:39:51 ◼   ► because we had wondered like,

00:39:53 ◼   ► "Is this time to get rid of the 11 on the iPad Pro

00:39:56 ◼   ► "and maybe go bigger?"

00:39:57 ◼   ► Especially with something else

00:39:58 ◼   ► I'm gonna talk about in a minute.

00:39:59 ◼   ► So this is the case, the 11 inch iPad Pro sticking around.

00:40:02 ◼   ► I do think that an 11 inch OLED iPad Pro

00:40:05 ◼   ► would be a very nice product, right?

00:40:07 ◼   ► Like that.

00:40:07 ◼   ► It's why I was so disappointed

00:40:09 ◼   ► that they never put the new screen technology,

00:40:13 ◼   ► the mini LED in the 11, right?

00:40:15 ◼   ► 'Cause that just felt like it would be so good

00:40:17 ◼   ► and would give it differentiation to the air.

00:40:20 ◼   ► But while talking about that,

00:40:22 ◼   ► let me talk about our next thing.

00:40:23 ◼   ► We could talk about differentiation.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Okay.

00:40:25 ◼   ► - So I did a quick Google and it sounds like

00:40:28 ◼   ► the dual stack, two stack OLEDs are really two layers of OLED

00:40:33 ◼   ► and that dramatically increases,

00:40:38 ◼   ► well, it doubles the brightness of an OLED panel

00:40:40 ◼   ► by having two different layers of OLEDs,

00:40:43 ◼   ► which is again, light emitting diodes.

00:40:45 ◼   ► They are light emitting dots, basically.

00:40:49 ◼   ► Two layers of them, you get more light,

00:40:52 ◼   ► which means that it gets to be brighter.

00:40:54 ◼   ► - It seems hard work to make work.

00:40:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, and expensive.

00:40:57 ◼   ► - Mark Gurman, yes, Mark Gurman and Ming-Chi Kuo

00:41:00 ◼   ► are reporting that it is Apple's plan

00:41:02 ◼   ► to overhaul the entire iPad line next year.

00:41:05 ◼   ► - Makes sense, makes sense.

00:41:07 ◼   ► - Ming-Chi Kuo gave some scheduled details for the products.

00:41:10 ◼   ► So Kuo was expecting the iPad Air in Q1.

00:41:13 ◼   ► So, and that would update the existing 10.9 model

00:41:18 ◼   ► and introduce a 12.9 inch iPad Air.

00:41:20 ◼   ► - Right.

00:41:21 ◼   ► - The iPad Pro would come in Q2

00:41:24 ◼   ► and would feature the OLED displays in an 11 and 13

00:41:27 ◼   ► and an M3 chip.

00:41:29 ◼   ► The iPad and the iPad mini in the second half of the year,

00:41:33 ◼   ► but no details.

00:41:34 ◼   ► And with that, the ninth gen iPad

00:41:37 ◼   ► that features the lightning port would be removed from sale

00:41:40 ◼   ► so that every iPad is USB-C.

00:41:42 ◼   ► - Right, so they may be,

00:41:44 ◼   ► depending on what's in the 11th generation iPad,

00:41:47 ◼   ► that might be cheaper

00:41:50 ◼   ► and they get rid of the ninth and the 10th.

00:41:52 ◼   ► - More likely the 10th will then kick down the price list

00:41:55 ◼   ► and the 11th will be a little bit better

00:41:57 ◼   ► and we'll continue to have an old iPad in the mix.

00:42:00 ◼   ► - But just the thing that I find interesting

00:42:02 ◼   ► is like 11 and 13 inch iPad Air, 11 and 13 inch iPad Pro.

00:42:07 ◼   ► Okay, you remember those rumors before

00:42:11 ◼   ► that the iPad Pro was gonna get incredibly expensive?

00:42:14 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:42:15 ◼   ► - I wonder if this is how they mitigate that.

00:42:17 ◼   ► It's like, well, we have a big iPad now.

00:42:20 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:42:21 ◼   ► - You have to spend the most expensive iPad

00:42:24 ◼   ► in order to get a big iPad screen if that's what you want.

00:42:27 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:42:29 ◼   ► And it uses, this is something that,

00:42:31 ◼   ► when we were talking about iPad a few weeks ago,

00:42:33 ◼   ► I talked about the idea that iPads

00:42:35 ◼   ► are made by their accessories, right?

00:42:37 ◼   ► Like iPads are devices that have that core

00:42:40 ◼   ► and then it's all the accessories that go around it.

00:42:42 ◼   ► And the reason that you make iPads the same size

00:42:45 ◼   ► is not just like, it's so confusing, there's two 12.9s.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Well, one of the reasons you do it

00:42:49 ◼   ► is that you don't have to make two separate everything

00:42:53 ◼   ► for that, right?

00:42:54 ◼   ► Oh, this is a new 12.5 inch Air.

00:42:58 ◼   ► And like, you can't, like Apple can't, I mean, they can,

00:43:01 ◼   ► but they don't wanna make that many different accessories.

00:43:03 ◼   ► So if you do a 12.9 Air,

00:43:04 ◼   ► guess what it's gonna use for a Magic Keyboard?

00:43:07 ◼   ► The existing iPad Pro 12.9 Magic Keyboard.

00:43:11 ◼   ► So keeping those things in sync is important for accessories.

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00:45:17 ◼   ► So we're gonna continue our rumor roundup,

00:45:21 ◼   ► and now we're gonna talk about the Apple Watch.

00:45:24 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:45:25 ◼   ► - So Mark Gurman had a really big story

00:45:28 ◼   ► that was also like history.

00:45:30 ◼   ► - That's a great story.

00:45:31 ◼   ► - It's like really detailed, really interesting.

00:45:34 ◼   ► It's good reporting, but as well as looking backwards,

00:45:36 ◼   ► it looks forwards.

00:45:38 ◼   ► - With Drake Bennett, we should say,

00:45:40 ◼   ► that was a co-buy line.

00:45:41 ◼   ► - Thank you very much, I missed that.

00:45:42 ◼   ► So I appreciate that.

00:45:44 ◼   ► So this is talking about health in Apple's products,

00:45:49 ◼   ► but mostly focused on the Apple Watch

00:45:51 ◼   ► because it's the product that they focus on most.

00:45:52 ◼   ► So I'm gonna get a quote from the article.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Apple has an enticing roadmap for 2024,

00:45:57 ◼   ► including hypertension and sleep apnea detection

00:46:00 ◼   ► for the watch and hearing aid capabilities for AirPods.

00:46:03 ◼   ► There are plans to turn its forthcoming Vision Pro

00:46:06 ◼   ► into a health and fitness device,

00:46:08 ◼   ► and work continues on a paid health coach service

00:46:12 ◼   ► that uses AI.

00:46:14 ◼   ► So I wanna dig into a couple of these things

00:46:16 ◼   ► a little bit more.

00:46:17 ◼   ► So hypertension detection is enabled

00:46:21 ◼   ► via a blood pressure monitoring system

00:46:23 ◼   ► that would be found in the 2024 Apple Watch.

00:46:26 ◼   ► I'll go back to another quote from the report.

00:46:28 ◼   ► The system is designed to just tell a user

00:46:30 ◼   ► if their blood pressure is trending upward

00:46:32 ◼   ► and to offer a journal for the user to jot down

00:46:34 ◼   ► what was happening when hypertension occurred,

00:46:36 ◼   ► to avoid potentially giving a misdiagnosis,

00:46:39 ◼   ► the feature will then direct the user to talk to their doctor

00:46:42 ◼   ► or check their blood pressure with a traditional cuff,

00:46:44 ◼   ► which can provide exact systolic and diastolic measurements.

00:46:49 ◼   ► - I love this idea that, you know, there's the proverbial,

00:46:51 ◼   ► not to make light of this, but the proverbial like,

00:46:55 ◼   ► that really raised my blood pressure moment.

00:46:57 ◼   ► And your watch goes, yes, it did.

00:47:00 ◼   ► And you're like, yeah, okay, really raised my blood pressure.

00:47:03 ◼   ► And I say that as somebody with high blood pressure,

00:47:05 ◼   ► I will say that.

00:47:05 ◼   ► I am a person who takes medication for high blood pressure.

00:47:09 ◼   ► So I get it, I get it.

00:47:11 ◼   ► But it's still funny to, I mean,

00:47:13 ◼   ► it's a little like the noise thing, right?

00:47:15 ◼   ► Where I'm at a football game and it's fourth down

00:47:18 ◼   ► and they're going for it.

00:47:19 ◼   ► And we're all yelling 'cause our team's on defense.

00:47:22 ◼   ► And I get a little thing on my watch that says,

00:47:24 ◼   ► it's a little bit loud right now.

00:47:26 ◼   ► I'm like, yeah, it is.

00:47:28 ◼   ► It's okay, watch, it's okay.

00:47:30 ◼   ► So now it's like, somebody said something

00:47:32 ◼   ► that really (beep) you up, didn't they?

00:47:35 ◼   ► Your blood pressure, maybe check it, yeah.

00:47:38 ◼   ► - So I had the other day, my first high heart rate thing.

00:47:43 ◼   ► You know where it's like, your heart rate's a little high.

00:47:47 ◼   ► I've never had one before.

00:47:49 ◼   ► I was watching the Marvels in the cinema

00:47:53 ◼   ► and there was a big tense moment, I guess,

00:47:55 ◼   ► 'cause my heart rate shot up.

00:47:56 ◼   ► I'd been to the gym before, so maybe I was like,

00:48:00 ◼   ► you know, a little high anyway.

00:48:02 ◼   ► But yeah, I've never had one of those before.

00:48:03 ◼   ► - That's amazing.

00:48:04 ◼   ► - Hey, your heart rate's too high.

00:48:05 ◼   ► And I was like, oh my God, Captain Marvel, no, you know?

00:48:09 ◼   ► I was obviously very upset.

00:48:11 ◼   ► Fun movie, by the way.

00:48:13 ◼   ► - I wanna see it tonight.

00:48:14 ◼   ► - I had a great time.

00:48:15 ◼   ► - See, talk about discourse.

00:48:16 ◼   ► There's a lot of discourse out there about,

00:48:17 ◼   ► oh, Marvel people are getting tired of Marvel

00:48:18 ◼   ► and I guess it didn't open well

00:48:20 ◼   ► and there's some negative reviews of it.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Every human being I know who I've talked to,

00:48:25 ◼   ► who has seen it, has liked it.

00:48:27 ◼   ► So I don't know. - It honestly, to me,

00:48:29 ◼   ► felt like a return to form, like from a movie perspective.

00:48:32 ◼   ► I was like, I had a really good time watching that movie

00:48:35 ◼   ► and I cared about what happened, you know?

00:48:37 ◼   ► I will also say on a side note,

00:48:39 ◼   ► low key season two, fantastic.

00:48:42 ◼   ► - Same story there.

00:48:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, between these two. - I've heard a lot

00:48:44 ◼   ► of discourse about it.

00:48:45 ◼   ► And then I talked to my friends about it

00:48:46 ◼   ► and they're all like, I really enjoyed it.

00:48:47 ◼   ► I haven't watched it yet.

00:48:48 ◼   ► - Between these two,

00:48:49 ◼   ► I feel like they're getting their groove back, but.

00:48:52 ◼   ► - This is a little sub-segment we call the Marvel moment.

00:48:54 ◼   ► - Marvel moment inside of "Rouba Round Up."

00:48:56 ◼   ► - Inside of "Rouba Round Up," there's a Marvel moment.

00:48:59 ◼   ► - This very Marvel too, to actually just,

00:49:01 ◼   ► everything's alliterated, you know?

00:49:04 ◼   ► - Of course.

00:49:04 ◼   ► - In the future with the hypertension,

00:49:10 ◼   ► they would want to expand it to provide

00:49:13 ◼   ► actual exact numbers.

00:49:14 ◼   ► 'Cause what this would do is it says,

00:49:15 ◼   ► it says that you are trending up,

00:49:16 ◼   ► but you're not gonna be able to take a blood pressure reading

00:49:20 ◼   ► with this initial technology.

00:49:22 ◼   ► - We talked about this with the temping

00:49:24 ◼   ► and then it turned out that they use the temperature

00:49:26 ◼   ► for cycle tracking.

00:49:27 ◼   ► But it's this idea that you can build sensors

00:49:30 ◼   ► that do this stuff on the watch

00:49:32 ◼   ► and it's very impressive when they do.

00:49:35 ◼   ► But the problem is that they can't be as exact.

00:49:39 ◼   ► They can't be as precise as a purpose-built device

00:49:44 ◼   ► because they just, the shape, the place on your wrist,

00:49:48 ◼   ► all of those things feed into it.

00:49:50 ◼   ► So instead what you, I think you're gonna see

00:49:52 ◼   ► for a lot of the stuff they add to the Apple Watch over time

00:49:54 ◼   ► is it's gonna be like trends without details

00:49:58 ◼   ► and saying you should look at this

00:49:59 ◼   ► with a purpose-built device.

00:50:00 ◼   ► If you have high blood pressure,

00:50:02 ◼   ► you should have a high blood pressure cuff

00:50:03 ◼   ► and you should check that out.

00:50:05 ◼   ► And what we can tell you is you're trending up,

00:50:07 ◼   ► which can be really valuable.

00:50:09 ◼   ► If I'm on my medication

00:50:11 ◼   ► and I need to go on a different medication

00:50:13 ◼   ► 'cause it's not doing its job anymore,

00:50:14 ◼   ► if I was told actually your blood pressure is trending up,

00:50:17 ◼   ► you should look into that.

00:50:19 ◼   ► That is useful, but it's not a replacement

00:50:22 ◼   ► for the little thing that is gonna go on your arm

00:50:25 ◼   ► and squeeze it or not if you're Johnny Ive.

00:50:28 ◼   ► - Or early signs for someone who doesn't.

00:50:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:50:33 ◼   ► - Who has not had an issue before.

00:50:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, and then your blood pressure is up.

00:50:36 ◼   ► That was a reference by the way, apparently in this story

00:50:38 ◼   ► that Johnny Ive developed like a squeeze proof

00:50:41 ◼   ► hypertension like cuff, weird.

00:50:45 ◼   ► Okay, but that never came to fruition.

00:50:50 ◼   ► - Not yet.

00:50:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's right. - You know?

00:50:52 ◼   ► - It's just on the shelf,

00:50:53 ◼   ► it's on the Johnny shelf in the white room.

00:50:55 ◼   ► - They're gonna be like, oh, you can get the Apple blood.

00:50:58 ◼   ► - Apple Cuff.

00:50:59 ◼   ► - Apple Cuff in case you want it.

00:51:00 ◼   ► - No, you know what they'll do is they'll be like,

00:51:01 ◼   ► yeah, you know, Belkin makes a blood pressure cuff.

00:51:05 ◼   ► - Oh, of course.

00:51:05 ◼   ► - It's totally designed by Apple.

00:51:06 ◼   ► Oh no, no, you can get it from them.

00:51:08 ◼   ► - Look at this, look at this.

00:51:09 ◼   ► It came out at the same time, you know?

00:51:11 ◼   ► Incredible.

00:51:13 ◼   ► - Amazing.

00:51:14 ◼   ► - These things like that idea of being able

00:51:16 ◼   ► to give those early warnings

00:51:18 ◼   ► and we're gonna talk about some other stuff like that

00:51:19 ◼   ► in a minute too.

00:51:20 ◼   ► It is kind of incredible how they are building

00:51:27 ◼   ► this product to make it that you would feel

00:51:32 ◼   ► like you need to wear it every day, right?

00:51:35 ◼   ► Because if it's going to be there in the background,

00:51:40 ◼   ► monitoring your body for signs of an issue

00:51:44 ◼   ► that you would otherwise not know about

00:51:45 ◼   ► until it's too late or until it's like too far down the path,

00:51:50 ◼   ► I mean, who doesn't wanna wear that product, right?

00:51:52 ◼   ► Like if I'm like, oh, my blood pressure is fine,

00:51:56 ◼   ► I expect at some point in my life, it won't be.

00:52:00 ◼   ► If I know that sooner based on something

00:52:03 ◼   ► that's continually monitoring my body

00:52:06 ◼   ► and could then take the path,

00:52:09 ◼   ► like the steps to making a better life choices,

00:52:13 ◼   ► like why would you not wanna put that on your arm every day

00:52:16 ◼   ► when it's also a watch?

00:52:18 ◼   ► Like it's not just like this extra thing I have to wear.

00:52:20 ◼   ► Like I don't need to get a cuff

00:52:22 ◼   ► and take my blood pressure every day, you know?

00:52:25 ◼   ► - I have seen some, this is related, I guess,

00:52:29 ◼   ► to that last thing that I said,

00:52:31 ◼   ► some discourse about this story that said,

00:52:34 ◼   ► because the story points out quite rightly

00:52:36 ◼   ► that Apple, when they talk about health, they face a choice.

00:52:40 ◼   ► And one of the choices that they faced is,

00:52:44 ◼   ► are you focused on well people who may need diagnoses

00:52:49 ◼   ► of either they're maintaining their health

00:52:52 ◼   ► or they're warned that there's a problem,

00:52:55 ◼   ► or do you focus on taking care of the sick?

00:52:58 ◼   ► And so the discourse is like, well,

00:53:00 ◼   ► of course Apple doesn't wanna take care of sick people.

00:53:04 ◼   ► That's all a lie.

00:53:06 ◼   ► They just wanna have healthy people

00:53:08 ◼   ► feel better about themselves.

00:53:10 ◼   ► However, again, I'm gonna say idealism versus reality here.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Just pay attention to the history of the Apple Watch,

00:53:17 ◼   ► not just from these reports, but like from observing it.

00:53:21 ◼   ► It's incredibly difficult.

00:53:22 ◼   ► One of the huge reasons that the Apple Watch

00:53:24 ◼   ► can't do lots of things is because

00:53:26 ◼   ► once you become a medical device,

00:53:28 ◼   ► the rules are incredibly specific.

00:53:31 ◼   ► And the Apple Watch is meant to be a general use device.

00:53:36 ◼   ► When you're sick, you have specific needs

00:53:41 ◼   ► and you probably need a specific medical device for it.

00:53:45 ◼   ► And they make a lot of medical devices

00:53:46 ◼   ► that like connect to the Apple Watch and stuff.

00:53:48 ◼   ► But I don't think it's unreasonable

00:53:50 ◼   ► for any company like Apple making a product

00:53:52 ◼   ► like the Apple Watch to say, look,

00:53:54 ◼   ► our goal here is to monitor you

00:53:56 ◼   ► and warn you when there's a problem

00:53:57 ◼   ► so that you can enter the medical system and get treatment,

00:54:02 ◼   ► which might include other devices,

00:54:04 ◼   ► including maybe devices that work with the Apple Watch.

00:54:06 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:54:07 ◼   ► I've got a blood pressure cup that does health kit.

00:54:10 ◼   ► Great.

00:54:11 ◼   ► But it is, I just, I don't think it's like some conspiracy.

00:54:18 ◼   ► I think it's like realism that Apple is not,

00:54:21 ◼   ► although they put their toe in the water

00:54:23 ◼   ► and the story talks about them thinking about doing

00:54:26 ◼   ► like healthcare clinics and trying that

00:54:27 ◼   ► and realizing how expensive it is

00:54:29 ◼   ► and they can't really do it that way.

00:54:30 ◼   ► And they're doing something very similar

00:54:31 ◼   ► to what Amazon is trying with their healthcare clinics.

00:54:34 ◼   ► I think the truth is Apple is a maker

00:54:36 ◼   ► of mass market products.

00:54:38 ◼   ► And the Apple Watch is a great example

00:54:39 ◼   ► of a product that is on the periphery of medical,

00:54:44 ◼   ► but like is never gonna go too far down medical

00:54:48 ◼   ► for a few reasons.

00:54:49 ◼   ► One of which is because I don't think there's enough space

00:54:52 ◼   ► in there to make it a detailed medical device

00:54:55 ◼   ► for all sorts of different conditions in one place.

00:54:58 ◼   ► And two, the amount of regulation that would be required

00:55:00 ◼   ► would be enormous.

00:55:01 ◼   ► And three, you can see here,

00:55:02 ◼   ► a lot of what they're able to get in that watch shape

00:55:05 ◼   ► is not as precise as you'd want for something

00:55:09 ◼   ► that is actually actively detailing a medical condition.

00:55:12 ◼   ► So I think that explains why the Apple Watch

00:55:17 ◼   ► is always gonna be, I think like this,

00:55:19 ◼   ► which is they're gonna try their best

00:55:22 ◼   ► to do things that will be able to read your wrist

00:55:26 ◼   ► and give you a sign,

00:55:28 ◼   ► but it's probably never going to be as precise

00:55:31 ◼   ► as anybody would want it to be.

00:55:32 ◼   ► There will always be a better medical device

00:55:36 ◼   ► than the Apple Watch.

00:55:37 ◼   ► The Apple Watch is like a leading indicator,

00:55:39 ◼   ► a warning light.

00:55:41 ◼   ► It's able to track you 'cause you wear it all the time

00:55:43 ◼   ► or can wear it all the time.

00:55:45 ◼   ► That's really valuable,

00:55:46 ◼   ► but it's not a replacement for a sleep study

00:55:50 ◼   ► or a heart monitor that you tape to your chest

00:55:53 ◼   ► and wear for a week or like any other medical device.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Or a proper multi-lead EKG, right?

00:56:02 ◼   ► It's never gonna be those things.

00:56:03 ◼   ► It is always gonna be like trying to do what it can

00:56:08 ◼   ► to give you warnings and information

00:56:10 ◼   ► in a limited way on your wrist.

00:56:13 ◼   ► - So the sleep apnea detection that you mentioned

00:56:16 ◼   ► is enabled via, I guess this is just smarts, right?

00:56:20 ◼   ► So it's using sleep tracking and breathing patterns.

00:56:23 ◼   ► 'Cause there will be things that they will add over time

00:56:25 ◼   ► that don't need sensors, right?

00:56:26 ◼   ► It's just like we're able to use data.

00:56:30 ◼   ► And that's how I imagine that even something

00:56:32 ◼   ► like the blood pressure system could get better over time.

00:56:35 ◼   ► If you have enough of them out there

00:56:37 ◼   ► and you can build a model.

00:56:38 ◼   ► - You built a better machine learning model, right?

00:56:40 ◼   ► That's exactly what it is.

00:56:41 ◼   ► And the sleep apnea detection,

00:56:42 ◼   ► I mean, sleep detection is already using

00:56:45 ◼   ► a machine learning model.

00:56:46 ◼   ► 'Cause what does it have?

00:56:47 ◼   ► It doesn't have like a sleep sensor.

00:56:49 ◼   ► It's got motion sensors and maybe sound.

00:56:53 ◼   ► I don't know if it's using sound or not

00:56:54 ◼   ► to hear snoring or breathing or whatever, but like motion.

00:56:57 ◼   ► And you do machine learning training

00:57:00 ◼   ► on these very minute motions

00:57:03 ◼   ► and you are able to pull patterns out of that data

00:57:08 ◼   ► and see your breathing patterns

00:57:10 ◼   ► and see your sleep patterns at it.

00:57:11 ◼   ► But it's limited 'cause all it has

00:57:16 ◼   ► is those sensors in the Apple Watch.

00:57:18 ◼   ► That's it.

00:57:19 ◼   ► - What continues on the blood glucose monitoring system?

00:57:23 ◼   ► When I was reading about this in this report,

00:57:25 ◼   ► like we spoken about it before,

00:57:26 ◼   ► this feels like the white whale for them.

00:57:30 ◼   ► They're like, if they can get this working,

00:57:33 ◼   ► 'cause it also sounds like it will be

00:57:35 ◼   ► like this hypertension system initially

00:57:36 ◼   ► where it's about trends, not readings.

00:57:38 ◼   ► But even then, if they can get that

00:57:40 ◼   ► and if they can get up and down working, right?

00:57:43 ◼   ► You're trending up or trending down,

00:57:45 ◼   ► my word, it's gonna be huge

00:57:50 ◼   ► if they can get this to work.

00:57:52 ◼   ► - Well, again, they're trying to do things like,

00:57:54 ◼   ► yeah, monitor your blood sugar.

00:57:55 ◼   ► And it may, again, it may not be something

00:57:58 ◼   ► that's useful for full on diabetics,

00:58:01 ◼   ► but it may be useful for people who are pre-diabetic

00:58:04 ◼   ► or might not know that they're pre-diabetic

00:58:06 ◼   ► to make changes and understand how their blood sugar

00:58:08 ◼   ► is affecting them.

00:58:09 ◼   ► - Also just for people to understand their diet more.

00:58:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, absolutely, right?

00:58:14 ◼   ► Oh, why is my blood sugar up?

00:58:15 ◼   ► I just had a bunch of carbs.

00:58:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, and everybody reacts differently

00:58:19 ◼   ► to different types of foods, right?

00:58:20 ◼   ► So it may help you better plan what you're eating

00:58:24 ◼   ► and when you're eating it based on you being able to see

00:58:26 ◼   ► when your blood pressure's going up and down,

00:58:28 ◼   ► sorry, when your blood glucose is going up and down.

00:58:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, and again, this is one of those cases

00:58:33 ◼   ► where I think that there was some initial idealism

00:58:37 ◼   ► inside Apple when the Apple Watch was being developed

00:58:39 ◼   ► that they were gonna be like a medical device

00:58:41 ◼   ► that just could tell everything.

00:58:43 ◼   ► And they've had in the last 10 years,

00:58:45 ◼   ► a lot of reality about what is capable,

00:58:47 ◼   ► even with the amazing things that they're able to pack

00:58:49 ◼   ► in that watch, what they're really capable of doing

00:58:52 ◼   ► when all they have is a little tiny window

00:58:54 ◼   ► onto a person's wrist.

00:58:56 ◼   ► There are incredible limitations to that.

00:58:59 ◼   ► And that's just how it's gonna be.

00:59:03 ◼   ► So in this case, they're like,

00:59:04 ◼   ► are we gonna be able to be a full-on blood glucose monitor?

00:59:09 ◼   ► And it's like, well, maybe not, but we're gonna,

00:59:12 ◼   ► there's value in what we can do,

00:59:14 ◼   ► I think is what they're trying to do.

00:59:15 ◼   ► There's a lot of that with the Apple Watch now.

00:59:16 ◼   ► - I can't imagine any computer-based system

00:59:19 ◼   ► that could be sticking the little thread

00:59:22 ◼   ► inside of your arm, right?

00:59:23 ◼   ► Like that's, it's in there.

00:59:26 ◼   ► - Maybe, that would be quite a breakthrough,

00:59:27 ◼   ► but it's always gonna be like,

00:59:29 ◼   ► you're looking through skin and a blood vessel exterior

00:59:33 ◼   ► to make some judgments about what's going on in the blood.

00:59:36 ◼   ► And then there's looking at the blood.

00:59:37 ◼   ► And those are, one of them is harder, but again,

00:59:42 ◼   ► I'm not, I think that there will be sensor

00:59:44 ◼   ► and machine learning breakthroughs that will be amazing.

00:59:48 ◼   ► But they're probably not saying,

00:59:50 ◼   ► but like there's also a good chance that there are things

00:59:52 ◼   ► that you literally can't measure

00:59:54 ◼   ► no matter how intelligent you are

00:59:56 ◼   ► from sitting on the back of someone's wrist.

00:59:59 ◼   ► - But I mean, even with like the models

01:00:00 ◼   ► and that kind of stuff,

01:00:01 ◼   ► you're still just gonna go and have somebody

01:00:04 ◼   ► check your real, check the blood, right?

01:00:05 ◼   ► Like you'll get to a point and be like,

01:00:07 ◼   ► this doesn't seem right or something's going wrong here.

01:00:10 ◼   ► You would go to the doctor

01:00:11 ◼   ► and you'd have a blood test done or something, right?

01:00:13 ◼   ► Like there's, I think there's something there.

01:00:18 ◼   ► And also to round out this,

01:00:21 ◼   ► 'cause basically I read the quote

01:00:22 ◼   ► with touching all the things.

01:00:24 ◼   ► The AirPods thing, so AirPods would essentially

01:00:27 ◼   ► get the functionality to work as a replacement

01:00:30 ◼   ► for an over the counter hearing aid.

01:00:31 ◼   ► So they'll build in the functionality to make it like,

01:00:34 ◼   ► it could work like a hearing aid,

01:00:35 ◼   ► as well as being able to use AirPods

01:00:38 ◼   ► to perform hearing tests.

01:00:40 ◼   ► - So we talked about this a while ago,

01:00:42 ◼   ► the idea that they've changed the way

01:00:43 ◼   ► that hearing aids are licensed in the US

01:00:45 ◼   ► and it should, at the time it was sort of like,

01:00:47 ◼   ► this should open the door for companies like Apple

01:00:50 ◼   ► to be able to make things like AirPods work as hearing aids,

01:00:54 ◼   ► instead of having to sort of like not do certain things

01:00:58 ◼   ► or not make claims or have to sell them as a medical device.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Like they can do this.

01:01:03 ◼   ► And this was an interesting report

01:01:05 ◼   ► because it suggests that that is happening.

01:01:07 ◼   ► I hadn't heard before that it was definitely happening

01:01:10 ◼   ► within Apple, just that it opened the door

01:01:12 ◼   ► for Apple to go in there.

01:01:13 ◼   ► And any of us who've used like AirPods and AirPods Pro

01:01:16 ◼   ► and all the different processing, like,

01:01:18 ◼   ► it's hard not to think about how it could probably

01:01:23 ◼   ► have different modes that would be more

01:01:26 ◼   ► like a traditional hearing aid.

01:01:28 ◼   ► So here we are.

01:01:30 ◼   ► And also I'll point out, there are a lot of people

01:01:33 ◼   ► who resist hearing aids and there are people

01:01:35 ◼   ► who can't afford them, that's an issue,

01:01:38 ◼   ► but there are also people who resist them

01:01:40 ◼   ► and don't think they need them.

01:01:42 ◼   ► And even though they totally need them,

01:01:46 ◼   ► they don't think they need them.

01:01:48 ◼   ► I've had some relatives like that.

01:01:50 ◼   ► This is really interesting, I think, for those edge cases,

01:01:53 ◼   ► where it's somebody who doesn't think they need

01:01:55 ◼   ► a hearing boost, like, oh, I don't need a hearing aid.

01:01:58 ◼   ► But then they say, oh, but Apple's got this thing

01:01:59 ◼   ► that makes conversations clearer.

01:02:00 ◼   ► And you're like, oh, that sounds like a good idea.

01:02:02 ◼   ► Don't tell them it's a hearing aid,

01:02:04 ◼   ► it's just making conversations clearer, right?

01:02:07 ◼   ► Like, that's great, that's awesome.

01:02:10 ◼   ► - And on a separate note, Ming-Chi Kuo is reporting

01:02:13 ◼   ► that there are currently no signs

01:02:15 ◼   ► that an Apple Watch Ultra 3 is in development.

01:02:18 ◼   ► Kuo believes that the likelihood of a new version

01:02:21 ◼   ► in 2024 is decreasing and feels

01:02:25 ◼   ► that it's maybe because of production issues

01:02:27 ◼   ► with the micro LED display that Apple wants to bring

01:02:30 ◼   ► to the product within the next couple of years.

01:02:33 ◼   ► This is whatever, right, this report, I feel like.

01:02:36 ◼   ► The reason I wanted to bring it in

01:02:37 ◼   ► is 'cause the question I wanted to ask you is,

01:02:40 ◼   ► I wonder if it's all focused on this Apple Watch X instead.

01:02:45 ◼   ► And so they're like, here's one watch next year

01:02:48 ◼   ► and it's like the brand new watch, I don't know.

01:02:51 ◼   ► Or this is nothing.

01:02:53 ◼   ► - Or they're taking a year off

01:02:55 ◼   ► and there'll be a minor increment to the Apple Watch in '24

01:02:58 ◼   ► and then the big watch updates

01:02:59 ◼   ► will happen simultaneously in '25.

01:03:01 ◼   ► I think they're, look, it's great

01:03:04 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch Ultra 2 came into being.

01:03:06 ◼   ► You've got one, right?

01:03:07 ◼   ► - And I love it, that if you want my long-term review,

01:03:11 ◼   ► I adore it.

01:03:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't feel like the Apple Watch Ultra

01:03:14 ◼   ► needs to be updated every year.

01:03:16 ◼   ► It's nice if it is, but I don't feel like it needs to be.

01:03:19 ◼   ► And if they skip a year with it,

01:03:20 ◼   ► like, Ultra 2 is gonna be fine.

01:03:23 ◼   ► It's gonna be fine.

01:03:24 ◼   ► And I don't think it says anything

01:03:27 ◼   ► about the future of the Apple Watch Ultra.

01:03:29 ◼   ► I'm actually pretty convinced

01:03:30 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch Ultra is a winner

01:03:32 ◼   ► and it's gonna stick around.

01:03:33 ◼   ► But yeah, it's possible that this is also like,

01:03:35 ◼   ► they're saving up and, you know,

01:03:41 ◼   ► 2025 might be the big Apple Watch year, who knows?

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01:06:33 ◼   ► The final rumor roundup for today is about iOS,

01:06:39 ◼   ► some stuff going on on iOS.

01:06:42 ◼   ► So first up, we go back to the sheriff, Mark Gurman,

01:06:46 ◼   ► who has been, had a couple of reports

01:06:48 ◼   ► over the last couple of weeks

01:06:50 ◼   ► about the development of iOS 18 and Mac OS as well,

01:06:54 ◼   ► of course, but obviously most of this stuff

01:06:56 ◼   ► is focused around iOS these days,

01:06:59 ◼   ► and kind of what Apple's doing

01:07:01 ◼   ► and a little bit of what they're focusing on.

01:07:03 ◼   ► So last week in his Power On newsletter,

01:07:06 ◼   ► Mark detailed that Craig Federighi ordered a freeze

01:07:08 ◼   ► on all new development to focus on bugs and issues

01:07:12 ◼   ► in the current internal builds of iOS 18.

01:07:15 ◼   ► So they were unhappy at Apple with the quality, I think,

01:07:20 ◼   ► of what was being produced, and it was really buggy,

01:07:25 ◼   ► which is funny that they're like,

01:07:26 ◼   ► how buggy could it be this early?

01:07:29 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:07:29 ◼   ► Like if it's bad, right?

01:07:30 ◼   ► Like you'd expect it to be buggy.

01:07:32 ◼   ► It must've been pretty bad for them, right, to do this.

01:07:36 ◼   ► - And there was that in his newsletter,

01:07:38 ◼   ► he mentioned that these, there are usually four milestones.

01:07:41 ◼   ► I didn't know any of this, right?

01:07:42 ◼   ► We don't get to see much inside the black box at Apple.

01:07:45 ◼   ► Nice to know that also in this report, it's very clear,

01:07:48 ◼   ► like these are described as being changes

01:07:50 ◼   ► that Craig Federighi has made to try to address issues.

01:07:53 ◼   ► And I like hearing about-

01:07:54 ◼   ► - Since 2019.

01:07:56 ◼   ► - That he's been working,

01:07:58 ◼   ► 'cause he's in charge of software, right?

01:07:59 ◼   ► He's been working to try to address some issues

01:08:01 ◼   ► that we've all seen on the outside internally,

01:08:04 ◼   ► and that's great.

01:08:05 ◼   ► So Mark said in his newsletter,

01:08:06 ◼   ► like there's these four milestones,

01:08:08 ◼   ► and that they tend to be sort of like development

01:08:11 ◼   ► and then sort of like fixing the regressions

01:08:12 ◼   ► and integration, and then, and they kind of alternate.

01:08:15 ◼   ► And it sounds like this was one of those where it was like,

01:08:17 ◼   ► wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:08:18 ◼   ► We can't move on to the next milestone.

01:08:21 ◼   ► It's not good enough.

01:08:22 ◼   ► So let's spend another week on this milestone

01:08:26 ◼   ► addressing all the issues.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And so it's not like a big, like press the stop button

01:08:32 ◼   ► and cease and all of that.

01:08:34 ◼   ► It's more, the way it came across to me is it's more like

01:08:37 ◼   ► he wasn't satisfied with it going to the next stage.

01:08:41 ◼   ► It didn't feel like they were ready to go there.

01:08:44 ◼   ► And like, I am never gonna say, no, no, move on.

01:08:49 ◼   ► Don't fix the bugs, right?

01:08:51 ◼   ► Like so many, Apple's platforms are so mature right now,

01:08:55 ◼   ► and they need, and we all rely on them,

01:08:57 ◼   ► and they need to be stable, and they need to work well,

01:09:01 ◼   ► and they need to not be full of bugs.

01:09:03 ◼   ► - There was a part in this report that I really liked.

01:09:06 ◼   ► It says in 2019, Federighi adopted a policy

01:09:09 ◼   ► that its division calls the pact.

01:09:12 ◼   ► And the pact is we will never knowingly allow regressions

01:09:16 ◼   ► in the build.

01:09:16 ◼   ► And when we find them, we will fix them quickly.

01:09:20 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:09:21 ◼   ► - I like that.

01:09:22 ◼   ► - I like it.

01:09:23 ◼   ► - Just to think of something.

01:09:24 ◼   ► So Mark Herman saying that iOS 18, this is interesting.

01:09:29 ◼   ► This seemed weird to me.

01:09:30 ◼   ► iOS 18 is gonna be used to sell the iPhone 16

01:09:33 ◼   ► because the iPhone 16 is not gonna have a lot of changes.

01:09:36 ◼   ► And so they want iOS 18 to be really good.

01:09:38 ◼   ► And I kind of, I don't know what I think about that.

01:09:42 ◼   ► Like, what is it?

01:09:43 ◼   ► Is it gonna be like a bunch of iOS 18 features

01:09:45 ◼   ► that are only in the iPhone 16?

01:09:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, maybe.

01:09:49 ◼   ► I also don't know how much of this linkage is real

01:09:52 ◼   ► and how much of it is Mark Herman's analysis

01:09:55 ◼   ► based on his knowledge of the iPhone 16

01:09:57 ◼   ► not being particularly anything.

01:09:59 ◼   ► I'm not sure if somebody said,

01:10:01 ◼   ► "Oh, they want this to be good

01:10:04 ◼   ► "because there's nothing in the iPhone 16."

01:10:07 ◼   ► Or if he sees they want this to be good

01:10:09 ◼   ► and he looks at the iPhone 16

01:10:10 ◼   ► and doesn't think that there's anything in it

01:10:12 ◼   ► and makes a connection.

01:10:13 ◼   ► I don't know that, but that does seem weird.

01:10:15 ◼   ► And it does, I mean, lends credence

01:10:17 ◼   ► to some of our vibes sometimes where it's like,

01:10:19 ◼   ► why is this feature only on this model

01:10:22 ◼   ► when it could have been on a previous model?

01:10:24 ◼   ► And, you know, although, I mean,

01:10:26 ◼   ► it doesn't have to be that, right?

01:10:28 ◼   ► Like it could be, and I'm sure it is every cycle

01:10:31 ◼   ► that there are new hardware in the 16 that they know about

01:10:34 ◼   ► that they're building features for.

01:10:36 ◼   ► And that, you know, but it is an interesting note of like,

01:10:39 ◼   ► we really gotta sell this because I guess,

01:10:43 ◼   ► does Apple feel like one of the biggest selling points

01:10:45 ◼   ► of iPhone hardware is the new OS

01:10:47 ◼   ► that you can get on your old hardware?

01:10:49 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't know.

01:10:50 ◼   ► - Well, apparently iOS 18 is being positioned

01:10:54 ◼   ► with a focus on AI and machine learning, quote,

01:10:57 ◼   ► internally Apple senior management

01:11:00 ◼   ► has described its upcoming systems as ambitious

01:11:02 ◼   ► and compelling with major new features and designs

01:11:05 ◼   ► in addition to security and performance updates.

01:11:08 ◼   ► So iOS 18 feels like a big one,

01:11:10 ◼   ► there's no real detail in it.

01:11:11 ◼   ► But like, if it's meant to be a focus on AI,

01:11:13 ◼   ► is it like the chip is needed, right?

01:11:18 ◼   ► Like they need more machine learning like cores?

01:11:22 ◼   ► - I can't imagine that they're gonna make an ambitious

01:11:25 ◼   ► and compelling update that only has features

01:11:27 ◼   ► for the iPhone 16, I don't see that.

01:11:31 ◼   ► - So this is why I think that I'm not convinced

01:11:34 ◼   ► that these two are linked as such.

01:11:37 ◼   ► But I like the idea that this is the machine learning

01:11:41 ◼   ► and AI release because it does give us all hope

01:11:43 ◼   ► that that means they're going to do some things

01:11:46 ◼   ► of an intelligent assistant variety,

01:11:50 ◼   ► which I think would be great, right?

01:11:53 ◼   ► Like Siri needs to be replaced throughout, right?

01:11:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:59 ◼   ► - And there was just one other quote that I wanted to read

01:12:02 ◼   ► 'cause I just, it made me feel bad for Apple engineers

01:12:06 ◼   ► for like how confusing their life must be.

01:12:08 ◼   ► So last month, the company completed

01:12:10 ◼   ► the first internal versions of the updates,

01:12:12 ◼   ► including the biggest new features.

01:12:14 ◼   ► When Apple gets to that stage known as M1,

01:12:17 ◼   ► it usually embarks on work for the next milestone, M2.

01:12:21 ◼   ► In this case, the debugging break delayed the start

01:12:23 ◼   ► of M2 development by a week.

01:12:25 ◼   ► So inside of Apple, they have things called M1 and M2

01:12:29 ◼   ► and I guess M3 and M4, and that just must make their lives

01:12:33 ◼   ► so complicated sometimes now.

01:12:35 ◼   ► - These are the M1 Macs.

01:12:37 ◼   ► - They're in M2 stage.

01:12:39 ◼   ► - M2, M1, Macs, Macs.

01:12:42 ◼   ► Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

01:12:47 ◼   ► Going back to the ML thing, like last week,

01:12:49 ◼   ► there was that AI pin event thing.

01:12:53 ◼   ► - Oh, the humane?

01:12:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, humane, yeah, which was not a good marketing video.

01:12:58 ◼   ► I would say everybody should watch that video

01:13:00 ◼   ► as a good example of how good Apple is at marketing videos

01:13:02 ◼   ► because I think it made it a bad job.

01:13:05 ◼   ► I think the presentation wasn't very good.

01:13:07 ◼   ► It has mistakes in it, but it's more than that.

01:13:09 ◼   ► They also, I think they mis-prioritized

01:13:12 ◼   ► the way they described the product.

01:13:13 ◼   ► And one of the first things they talk about

01:13:16 ◼   ► is the color ways of the product.

01:13:18 ◼   ► And nobody cares, dude.

01:13:20 ◼   ► That's at the end.

01:13:21 ◼   ► Why are you saying that first

01:13:23 ◼   ► and using those terms in that way

01:13:24 ◼   ► and having your cutie names for colors

01:13:27 ◼   ► that are just white and black and silver, whatever.

01:13:30 ◼   ► But what I, so that's my nutshell of the humane thing

01:13:34 ◼   ► is like, I don't think it was,

01:13:36 ◼   ► I think the product was let down by the presentation.

01:13:38 ◼   ► I think the product is a weird

01:13:40 ◼   ► and probably should be part of a larger ecosystem

01:13:42 ◼   ► of products, but they got funding to ship a product.

01:13:45 ◼   ► So it's a standalone product with its own phone number.

01:13:49 ◼   ► Like, all right, whatever.

01:13:50 ◼   ► - I will say on this pin, like I watched a video

01:13:53 ◼   ► and the whole time I was like, if Apple made this,

01:13:55 ◼   ► I would buy this.

01:13:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, this is the thing is

01:13:58 ◼   ► as part of a constellation of devices,

01:14:00 ◼   ► having a device that is, I mean, a lot of it,

01:14:04 ◼   ► you don't need if you've got an iPhone or AirPods

01:14:07 ◼   ► and all that, but like they do also have the thing

01:14:08 ◼   ► where it's like an Apple watch,

01:14:11 ◼   ► but they also have a camera looking out, which has value

01:14:14 ◼   ► and Apple's ecosystem sort of doesn't have something

01:14:16 ◼   ► like that that can see around you.

01:14:18 ◼   ► But really what I took away from it

01:14:20 ◼   ► and the thing that I really wish Apple had

01:14:22 ◼   ► and that other platforms had as well

01:14:25 ◼   ► is they are basically saying, look, our entire interface

01:14:29 ◼   ► is basically a GPT AI.

01:14:31 ◼   ► Like that is the whole interface.

01:14:33 ◼   ► And we don't even do apps.

01:14:34 ◼   ► You just tell it what you want and we get what it is back.

01:14:37 ◼   ► I think there's a fundamental mistake that they're making

01:14:39 ◼   ► that I understand because they, again,

01:14:41 ◼   ► they had to make a product and this is the product,

01:14:43 ◼   ► but like their attitude is that people don't like

01:14:46 ◼   ► their smartphones, which is bananas

01:14:48 ◼   ► because people love their smartphones.

01:14:49 ◼   ► Like, ah, smartphones, who has time for them?

01:14:52 ◼   ► Like, well, everybody in the human race seems to have time

01:14:54 ◼   ► for smartphones friends, but oh my goodness,

01:14:58 ◼   ► the attitude they have toward machine learning,

01:15:01 ◼   ► AI, chat, talk, information source,

01:15:06 ◼   ► that's what I took away and said, I want it, right?

01:15:10 ◼   ► Like that's what it's supposed to be like.

01:15:12 ◼   ► Alexa isn't like that.

01:15:14 ◼   ► Google assistant isn't like that.

01:15:16 ◼   ► Siri is certainly not like that.

01:15:18 ◼   ► Like that's the dream.

01:15:20 ◼   ► And yeah, it hallucinated.

01:15:21 ◼   ► It got a bunch of stuff wrong.

01:15:22 ◼   ► It got the Eclipse location wrong

01:15:24 ◼   ► and they kept it in the video,

01:15:25 ◼   ► which is like, what are you doing?

01:15:27 ◼   ► But the potential of being able to say,

01:15:32 ◼   ► what do I know about this?

01:15:34 ◼   ► And it's looked at your,

01:15:35 ◼   ► think about it from an Apple perspective,

01:15:37 ◼   ► it's got your notes, it's got your contacts,

01:15:40 ◼   ► it's got your email, it knows everything about you.

01:15:44 ◼   ► It is a personal assistant that you can use to find things

01:15:48 ◼   ► that you have in your personal data cloud,

01:15:50 ◼   ► but that you don't have in your brain.

01:15:52 ◼   ► It doesn't make the connection in your brain.

01:15:53 ◼   ► And it can make that connection.

01:15:56 ◼   ► That is huge.

01:15:58 ◼   ► The potential there is enormous to make our devices better.

01:16:02 ◼   ► I don't think it makes the smartphone obsolete,

01:16:05 ◼   ► which is sort of what humane is trying to say here.

01:16:07 ◼   ► But when we're talking about Apple trying to focus more

01:16:10 ◼   ► on machine learning and AI stuff,

01:16:12 ◼   ► and I know everybody is trying to do this right now.

01:16:14 ◼   ► Like that's what I want.

01:16:16 ◼   ► I want these assistants to be so much better.

01:16:19 ◼   ► One of the benefits of Apple having this enormous ecosystem

01:16:22 ◼   ► that they've built is that their machine learning

01:16:25 ◼   ► technologies could consume the content in the ecosystem,

01:16:28 ◼   ► in your personal ecosystem and know it.

01:16:32 ◼   ► And that would be incredibly valuable

01:16:34 ◼   ► if you could act on that.

01:16:35 ◼   ► So I don't know how realistic those humane demos even are,

01:16:38 ◼   ► and there were a lot of mistakes in them,

01:16:39 ◼   ► but like it showed the potential of something like a Siri 2

01:16:44 ◼   ► to do this if it works right.

01:16:48 ◼   ► And that's the big question is,

01:16:49 ◼   ► is this something that happens this year or in five years?

01:16:52 ◼   ► Before it's good enough.

01:16:54 ◼   ► And Apple's limitations and its conservatism about like,

01:16:56 ◼   ► well, if Apple's got a thing that tells you the eclipse

01:17:00 ◼   ► is in Australia when it's in America, guess what?

01:17:02 ◼   ► Not only they're not gonna put that in their demo,

01:17:04 ◼   ► they're not gonna ship it

01:17:05 ◼   ► because they don't wanna be embarrassed.

01:17:07 ◼   ► So there's lots of challenges going on here.

01:17:10 ◼   ► - I just can't believe they didn't check the video.

01:17:13 ◼   ► Is this happened in every AI focused product video?

01:17:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:17:17 ◼   ► - It feels like the obvious thing to do,

01:17:21 ◼   ► like check it. - Fact checker.

01:17:23 ◼   ► Fact checker.

01:17:24 ◼   ► - And also why would you ask questions in a product video

01:17:27 ◼   ► that you don't know it can give correct answers to?

01:17:31 ◼   ► - I know, never ask a question you don't know the answer to

01:17:34 ◼   ► in a marketing video.

01:17:35 ◼   ► That is for sure. - Very strange.

01:17:37 ◼   ► - Very strange.

01:17:38 ◼   ► Anyway, but the potential is enormous.

01:17:39 ◼   ► Like again, I don't know if a pin is the right way to go.

01:17:44 ◼   ► It does make me feel like that,

01:17:46 ◼   ► eventually having something you wear, maybe glasses,

01:17:49 ◼   ► even if all there is on them are some sensors

01:17:52 ◼   ► as a part of the kind of broader picture.

01:17:54 ◼   ► - Realistically, any product like this

01:17:56 ◼   ► that's going to succeed needs to have a camera on it.

01:17:59 ◼   ► And that camera needs to be able to see what you can see.

01:18:02 ◼   ► So it's either physical, like a pin or it's glasses,

01:18:05 ◼   ► right, like the Ray-Bans.

01:18:07 ◼   ► Because it seems like if you're able to look at something,

01:18:10 ◼   ► but what is that?

01:18:12 ◼   ► Who does, that's just like, that's cool.

01:18:14 ◼   ► - Your phone's in your pocket,

01:18:17 ◼   ► so your phone's not looking around

01:18:19 ◼   ► and having, and somebody on Mastodon was like,

01:18:22 ◼   ► oh yeah, that's gonna be really good video, right?

01:18:24 ◼   ► Like it's all, and it's like, well, that's not the point.

01:18:26 ◼   ► First off, you are totally underestimating

01:18:28 ◼   ► how good stabilization is these days,

01:18:30 ◼   ► based on machine learning.

01:18:32 ◼   ► You take a wide field and even though it's jumpy,

01:18:35 ◼   ► you can stabilize that thing.

01:18:37 ◼   ► And it's so valuable for it to see what's around you.

01:18:41 ◼   ► It can already hear what's around you with your Apple Watch

01:18:44 ◼   ► or your headphones or whatever, but it's an extra layer

01:18:48 ◼   ► and it's a piece of sensory information

01:18:50 ◼   ► that the iPhone doesn't have if it's in your pocket.

01:18:53 ◼   ► So that part is cool.

01:18:55 ◼   ► The rest of it I could take or leave

01:18:56 ◼   ► because I have an Apple Watch and it's got a speaker on it.

01:19:00 ◼   ► And some of their demos where it's like,

01:19:02 ◼   ► oh, you can play music to yourself

01:19:03 ◼   ► on a thing that's hanging on your pocket.

01:19:05 ◼   ► - A sonic speaker.

01:19:07 ◼   ► I did like the fact that it required physical interaction

01:19:12 ◼   ► to invoke things.

01:19:14 ◼   ► - Sure.

01:19:15 ◼   ► - 'Cause that is like, there needs to be visuals

01:19:19 ◼   ► to the world, right?

01:19:20 ◼   ► That like you're doing something.

01:19:22 ◼   ► Like I think that's gonna be really important, but.

01:19:24 ◼   ► - I do that all the time by pressing the digital crown

01:19:26 ◼   ► on my watch.

01:19:28 ◼   ► I don't do a lot of hey activations.

01:19:31 ◼   ► I do a lot of press the crown and say something

01:19:33 ◼   ► 'cause I don't like those mistaken activations.

01:19:36 ◼   ► I like being able to make a physical thing.

01:19:38 ◼   ► But I feel like if you're looking at everything

01:19:40 ◼   ► that the humane AI pen is purportedly doing,

01:19:44 ◼   ► most of them are covered by a product

01:19:45 ◼   ► in Apple's product constellation, but some are not.

01:19:50 ◼   ► And that I find that interesting.

01:19:52 ◼   ► And then there's the whole machine learning thing,

01:19:54 ◼   ► which is like, again, if you buy into the premise

01:19:56 ◼   ► and I think this is the beauty of these ML models

01:20:00 ◼   ► is like where their secret sauce is.

01:20:03 ◼   ► First off being able to search the internet

01:20:04 ◼   ► and get good answers to you that are correct

01:20:06 ◼   ► is a good one, right?

01:20:07 ◼   ► But like so much of it,

01:20:09 ◼   ► I was talking to Dan Morin about this last week

01:20:11 ◼   ► on the, I think on the Six Colors podcast.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Like he's written, what is it?

01:20:15 ◼   ► Five novels in the same universe now?

01:20:18 ◼   ► And when he's writing those books,

01:20:19 ◼   ► he doesn't remember every word that he's written.

01:20:21 ◼   ► He's got like a Wiki that he built

01:20:23 ◼   ► that I think he's got in Obsidian now.

01:20:26 ◼   ► But he was saying, the dream here,

01:20:29 ◼   ► and I think he could do that with GPT now.

01:20:31 ◼   ► The dream is to upload the contents of his novels

01:20:34 ◼   ► and then say things like,

01:20:37 ◼   ► what's the color of this character's eyes?

01:20:41 ◼   ► And for it to know they're blue

01:20:43 ◼   ► or I don't know it, you've never said that.

01:20:45 ◼   ► Or he example he gave is,

01:20:47 ◼   ► when's the last time this character fired a gun?

01:20:52 ◼   ► And Dan doesn't know the answer.

01:20:56 ◼   ► And how do you find that even in a Wiki?

01:20:59 ◼   ► How do you search for it in manuscripts?

01:21:01 ◼   ► You can't find it,

01:21:02 ◼   ► but the model may be able to know the answer to that.

01:21:07 ◼   ► That's the potential of all of this

01:21:08 ◼   ► is looking through all of your Apple Notes notes

01:21:11 ◼   ► and all your reminders and all your calendar items

01:21:13 ◼   ► and all your contacts and all your email

01:21:15 ◼   ► and all your documents that are in files

01:21:18 ◼   ► and or are in an API that is connected.

01:21:21 ◼   ► And it knows everything.

01:21:23 ◼   ► And it's your life, but you may not know the answer,

01:21:27 ◼   ► but it knows the answer.

01:21:28 ◼   ► That's the promise here.

01:21:30 ◼   ► That is amazing if you could get there.

01:21:33 ◼   ► - It's like on the GPTs thing,

01:21:34 ◼   ► like I saw on Mastodon last night,

01:21:36 ◼   ► Matt Burchler built one of those GPTs

01:21:39 ◼   ► for writing alt text images.

01:21:41 ◼   ► It's like, "That's really smart."

01:21:42 ◼   ► - Oh, wow.

01:21:43 ◼   ► - So you just in the app, you just upload an image

01:21:47 ◼   ► and it just describes it in a way

01:21:49 ◼   ► in which the language is good for alt text.

01:21:52 ◼   ► And I just thought it was super cool.

01:21:53 ◼   ► - Dr. Wave did a thing where he uploaded all the books

01:21:58 ◼   ► about the programming language LISP

01:22:01 ◼   ► and made a GPT that he can consult

01:22:05 ◼   ► about how to program, about programming problems in LISP.

01:22:09 ◼   ► - That's cool.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Imagine that, right?

01:22:11 ◼   ► You're just like, I just put all the books in there.

01:22:13 ◼   ► And then all I do is ask, "Hey, how do I do this?"

01:22:17 ◼   ► And it knows 'cause it's read all the books.

01:22:20 ◼   ► And yes, I mean, there are limitations.

01:22:22 ◼   ► It's not gonna be creative.

01:22:23 ◼   ► It's gonna be derivative.

01:22:24 ◼   ► But the idea is you bought all the books,

01:22:26 ◼   ► you own all the books.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Maybe you've even read or looked through all the books,

01:22:29 ◼   ► but like your puny human brain doesn't know.

01:22:32 ◼   ► And you could look at the indexes

01:22:35 ◼   ► and you've got eight books and are they well-indexed?

01:22:38 ◼   ► And how do you find the problem?

01:22:39 ◼   ► Or if you've got them, you could do a search,

01:22:41 ◼   ► but then you're searching for terms in PDFs.

01:22:44 ◼   ► Like there's just a lot of these very specific things.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Like again, for Dan, it's literally just,

01:22:51 ◼   ► you've read my novels and made all the connections.

01:22:55 ◼   ► You tell me the answer.

01:22:56 ◼   ► That's so powerful.

01:22:57 ◼   ► That's amazing.

01:22:58 ◼   ► I would do that for "Six Colors," honestly.

01:23:00 ◼   ► That might be a thing I do is give it an entire,

01:23:02 ◼   ► give a GPT, the "Six Colors" archive.

01:23:04 ◼   ► 'Cause then I'll know like, when did I write about this?

01:23:06 ◼   ► Or "Six Colors," stuff that I've written

01:23:09 ◼   ► and upgrade podcast transcripts and stuff.

01:23:12 ◼   ► And so then I can say like, when did I talk about this?

01:23:16 ◼   ► And get an answer that's a lot clearer.

01:23:19 ◼   ► That would be awesome. - Apparently the Discord

01:23:21 ◼   ► is letting you know, maybe you need a GPT of your own.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Leo Laporte did that.

01:23:24 ◼   ► - Oh, that was not Dr. Wave.