00:00:00 ◼ ► I do feel really good tonight because earlier today I moved my deployment target for my new rewrite of the app from iOS 16 to iOS 17.
00:00:15 ◼ ► I know, well, but also, okay, part of the rewrite is a new sync protocol that is way more efficient both on the client and the server.
00:00:24 ◼ ► So I thought I should target iOS 16 because like 95% or something of my users are on iOS 16 and above.
00:00:30 ◼ ► So I'm like, if I can deploy this to them, I can also save a bunch on the server side resource wise and dramatically lighten the load on the servers.
00:00:38 ◼ ► So my thinking was, if I ship this thing sometime this winter, I can ship it to everybody and dramatically lighten the load on the servers.
00:00:45 ◼ ► Well, in the meantime, I made the mistake of looking at my numbers for last fall of like how quickly did people adopt iOS 17 last fall?
00:00:53 ◼ ► Out of my user base, not out of the entire world of iPhone users, but just out of my users.
00:01:01 ◼ ► And it turned out that by December, I had something like 88% by December 1st of people who had already installed iOS 16 by then.
00:01:21 ◼ ► And I was looking at my own life, introspectively, and thinking, what are the odds that I ship this thing before December 1st?
00:01:34 ◼ ► I just cannot imagine making that much progress in that much time where I'd have this entire rewrite of the app ready to ship only, you know, five months from now or something.
00:01:47 ◼ ► Look, and I would love if for some reason, if four and a half months from now, you hear me in the show complaining, oh, I can't believe I can't ship this rewrite.
00:01:55 ◼ ► It's been done sitting around for weeks now and I can't ship it because my iOS 17 adoption isn't high enough yet.
00:02:27 ◼ ► Like, how many subsystems there are, how many features there are, how many screens there are.
00:02:35 ◼ ► And I don't have to, look, I can kind of part this and I don't have to rewrite every subsystem.
00:02:57 ◼ ► Like, there's so much that I have to rewrite and all these little tiny behaviors that I have to, you know,
00:03:21 ◼ ► if I can ship iOS 17 plus and use all of the new observable stuff as I'm writing all my Swift UI stuff.
00:03:34 ◼ ► And I couldn't believe, like, I could get rid of so much crap, so much boilerplate, so much like, you know,
00:03:48 ◼ ► And by the time I, you know, I mean, by the time I ship this rewrite, it might be time for iOS 18.
00:04:11 ◼ ► Because I am in the meantime going to ship an iOS 17 update for the old code base that has a new widget for iOS 17.
00:04:22 ◼ ► It was tricky to, back when I naively thought I will just modify my iOS 16 widgets to work on both.
00:04:32 ◼ ► That's like, as I started designing it and started looking into, like, okay, what does interaction mean?
00:04:52 ◼ ► And I started modifying it and had all these, like, giant, you know, conditional logic of, okay, well, if you're on iOS 17, then modify this thing this way.
00:05:24 ◼ ► And just conditionally, you know, render the entire widget from the whole separate class or struct, I guess.
00:05:33 ◼ ► Because the thing is, like, making them interactive, first of all, that changes everything.
00:05:37 ◼ ► But you don't want them interactive everywhere because, like, interaction in standby mode is kind of annoying because you have to unlock the phone after you interact with it to do anything.
00:05:48 ◼ ► So, like, there are certain places where you don't want interaction or that you kind of have to be different.
00:05:55 ◼ ► Anyway, all this to say, this fall, listeners, I would expect many of your apps that have widgets are going to completely rewrite them.
00:06:14 ◼ ► Before we move on to follow up, I should mention that if you are currently driving or perhaps walking, if you're mobile at the moment, please do yourself a favor.
00:06:27 ◼ ► Not even me. Do yourself a favor. Pull over. Step to the side. Do whatever you got to do.
00:06:38 ◼ ► I think clearly, because of the amazing sales job I'm doing right now, I will end up getting easily 25% of the profit.
00:07:16 ◼ ► A lot of people wrote in to remind me of something that I am actually actively using, except I almost never use it.
00:07:22 ◼ ► I was talking in the after show last week about when I had my IP address on my home internet connection change out from under me,
00:07:30 ◼ ► which happens extremely rarely because this is a connection that's always up, but it does happen from time to time.
00:07:37 ◼ ► And it changed out from under me, and I think, Jon, you were talking about dynamic DNS solutions,
00:07:46 ◼ ► Anyways, a lot of people pointed out, including a friend of the show, Spencer, and many others,
00:07:59 ◼ ► And what you can do is you can have your Synology phone home to the Synology server's website, what have you,
00:08:04 ◼ ► and it will update the IP address of your Synology, and then you can refer to 123mainstreet.synology.me
00:08:32 ◼ ► But for whatever reason, I guess because it has Synology in the URL, I think of that as being unique to the Synology.
00:08:49 ◼ ► he wrote in and said, "Speaking about dynamic DNS, Synology not only has a built-in client,
00:08:53 ◼ ► but also provides a free service." And Alex talked about this. We'll put a link to this in show notes.
00:08:57 ◼ ► But what was interesting was Alex said, "Then you could add a CNAME, such as mainstreet.caseylist.com,
00:09:08 ◼ ► So to recap, what Alex is saying, which is a clever idea that I probably wound up doing,
00:09:23 ◼ ► Because the kind of backing store, if you will, for the IP address is the Synology setup that should always be updated.
00:09:30 ◼ ► But I can still continue referring to it as whatever.caseylist.com. I just thought that was interesting.
00:09:36 ◼ ► I'm also using the free Synology dynamic DNS service, and so I was aware that it existed.
00:09:41 ◼ ► But what I wasn't aware of is that if you go to that same place, it's on your Synology,
00:09:49 ◼ ► It also supports third-party services, so it's not just the Synology.me service that I guess they just run for free for Synology owners.
00:09:57 ◼ ► It does a bunch of other ones. It doesn't include the service that I've been freeloading on for 17 years.
00:10:02 ◼ ► So that's not in there, but... Or actually, maybe it was, but hover wasn't in there for whatever reason.
00:10:07 ◼ ► But anyway, a lot of them are supported, and like a lot of these systems, it's probably pluggable,
00:10:33 ◼ ► Shake hands with the CEO. This person has refused to give us money for 20 years. Here's your plaque.
00:10:40 ◼ ► We'll see what I do, but yeah, I should just make it alias from one of my umpteen domains.
00:10:59 ◼ ► Yes. So, first of all, I am vindicated. Everyone has these problems with Logitech CircleView cameras.
00:11:08 ◼ ► A lot of people wrote in, first of all, thank you. Second of all, wow, we've had a lot of people write in with a lot of content,
00:11:14 ◼ ► and it's all very good and helpful, so thank you very much. Also, I think you can stop now.
00:11:26 ◼ ► But anyway, so, Logitech CircleView cameras, the issues I was having with constant Wi-Fi dropouts and connection drops and everything,
00:11:37 ◼ ► It seems like some people have had good luck putting Wi-Fi access points extremely close to them, and it seems like that helps.
00:11:46 ◼ ► A few people have said that trying to configure their Wi-Fi system such that they only ever connect to the same AP occasionally helps,
00:12:00 ◼ ► So it seems like weak and buggy Wi-Fi is their problem, and that if you can somehow make the Wi-Fi to them easier for them to handle,
00:12:09 ◼ ► that seems to improve the error rate. And that actually kind of maps... I mentioned that one of them that I have is pretty reliable, the bite camera one.
00:12:18 ◼ ► And that happens to be about five feet from an AP. So that actually makes a lot of sense that, you know,
00:12:25 ◼ ► why that one would be more reliable than the others, which are a totally reasonable distance from APs, but not quite so close.
00:12:31 ◼ ► Anyway, though, everyone wrote in to say, first of all, there are more HomeKit secure video cameras than I thought.
00:12:39 ◼ ► I linked it in the show notes after the fact, and we'll link again maybe this time to this iMore article that shows every HomeKit secure video camera currently on the market.
00:12:47 ◼ ► And I also want to point out there's multiple forms of HomeKit cameras. There is HomeKit compatible, and then separately from that is HomeKit secure video compatible.
00:12:58 ◼ ► Those are actually two different levels of integration with HomeKit, and a lot of the things people wrote in only were compatible with HomeKit in the sense that you could view them in the Home app,
00:13:07 ◼ ► but not necessarily secure video, which is their own kind of cloud storage and certain other features kind of thing.
00:13:14 ◼ ► Anyway, a lot of people wrote in to recommend the Eufy cameras, the E-U-F-Y. This is Anker's home, like smart home kind of brand.
00:13:23 ◼ ► And I had Eufy cameras first. Listeners may remember, that's the brand that I kept killing the cameras I put in them outside.
00:13:38 ◼ ► They actually have had a couple of little scandals here and there since then with some security badness here or there.
00:13:50 ◼ ► They have some options that work with HomeKit and some options that work with HomeKit secure video, some of which are outdoor compatible.
00:13:58 ◼ ► And people say they're okay. But ultimately, everyone said, "Just get Eufy cameras." Everyone.
00:14:11 ◼ ► And everyone basically said, "Yes, the Wi-Fi cameras and everything are nice and cheap and simple.
00:14:19 ◼ ► However, if you want reliable cameras, it has to be PoE cameras." Power over Ethernet, hardwired, hardpowered cameras.
00:14:30 ◼ ► You can use any PoE cameras. Like there's this brand Amcrest, some people recommend it and everything.
00:14:39 ◼ ► You can also use Synology's surveillance station with other cameras if you want, but everyone basically said,
00:14:53 ◼ ► So the recommended setup is to run PoE cameras, probably Ubiquiti's cameras with Ubiquiti's recorder and stuff like that,
00:15:06 ◼ ► And it's stored on your local hard drive and inside whatever Ubiquiti appliance you're using to record the video.
00:15:12 ◼ ► That's like the 24/7. But then you can also bridge that into HomeKit and possibly HomeKit Secure Video
00:15:24 ◼ ► So that way you get the nice notifications from HomeKit. You get the motion detection from HomeKit.
00:15:30 ◼ ► You get the feature that I've actually never used where you can have it pop in a picture on your Apple TV
00:15:36 ◼ ► if someone's at your front door camera and show it right there on your Apple TV as a little video doorbell kind of thing.
00:15:42 ◼ ► So you can do all that with Ubiquiti and other cameras using either HomeBridge or the one thing that everyone said
00:15:57 ◼ ► So Scripted with a Y in the middle of it. Scripted apparently bridges those kind of systems to HomeKit Secure Video.
00:16:04 ◼ ► And so this is what I'm going to do. I have stuff on order. It might take a couple of weeks to get it all in here
00:16:13 ◼ ► I cannot tell you how many people wrote in to say Ubiquiti's cameras are great and use them with Scripted
00:16:21 ◼ ► to bridge them into HomeKit. Everyone wrote in to tell me this. And people gave me sample footage.
00:16:27 ◼ ► People were pointing out people who worked there, people who didn't work there, people who've installed this for many different homes
00:16:32 ◼ ► or for clients that they work with, businesses that use it. Everyone agreed. Ubiquiti cameras and then you Scripted.
00:16:40 ◼ ► I feel like you have a special case here though. I was thinking about this while reading through all the email
00:16:44 ◼ ► with the people recommending the power over Ethernet cameras. I'm not sure if that's the best solution for you
00:16:50 ◼ ► because I just kept thinking of that Ethernet connector out there in the elements and thinking about that USB.
00:16:56 ◼ ► I know, but I'm thinking about the Ethernet connector that will be on your power-resistant phones.
00:17:00 ◼ ► And then I was comparing it to the USB-A connector that you showed that had rusted out.
00:17:04 ◼ ► The advantage that a wireless one has is it can be completely weather sealed with nothing plugged into it at all
00:17:11 ◼ ► except for I suppose power. Or even that, it could be battery powered with one of those magnetic charging base things.
00:17:16 ◼ ► I think the Nest cameras have that where it's hard-wired to a base that inductively charges a magnetically attached thing.
00:17:23 ◼ ► Anyway, you'll find out, but the advantage of wireless for you is less rust surface potentially.
00:17:30 ◼ ► Or it could be no matter what you do, the Salt Air is going to destroy this camera in a year anyway, so it might as well get cheap ones.
00:17:37 ◼ ► Well, so on that front, what attracts me to the PoE option here is you can get like 100-foot Ethernet cables and just run them from a safe place.
00:17:48 ◼ ► And so my physical setup here is I have a utility closet where all the networking gear is based, and that is interior condition space.
00:17:56 ◼ ► And there is a small pipe conduit that runs from that down to under the house and to all the utility areas down there.
00:18:17 ◼ ► Even though you thought the same thing in the other closet and they started to leak. Do not store water next to your electronics.
00:18:22 ◼ ► It's below the electronics. Unless we had a significant steam situation forming from this water, it would not reach the electronics.
00:18:29 ◼ ► You just cannot stop putting indoor things outdoors and storing water next to your electronics in closets.
00:18:39 ◼ ► Anyway, so the advantage here with Power Reisement is that I can, and this is how all, I have a couple of access points that are outdoors as well, and this is how I use them.
00:18:49 ◼ ► They're also powered by PoE and so I basically have long cables that run from the inside closet through that conduit to the outside world.
00:19:08 ◼ ► And I can enhance it if I want to. There's like additional boxes you can mount them to that are their own kind of sealed little things.
00:19:28 ◼ ► So I bought a tube of that as well to kind of stick on the connector so it kind of seals it up that way.
00:19:33 ◼ ► So I'm going to do all the sealing and everything and see how it goes. I don't know if it's going to work. Out here...
00:19:38 ◼ ► Can you evacuate the air from the chamber? Because even the small amount of air that you trap inside there is probably filled with salt that is going to corrode things.
00:19:45 ◼ ► It is definitely filled with salt. But I can't imagine the static amount of non-moving air in there would really be a problem.
00:19:52 ◼ ► The reason I think about this is because the contacts on an ethernet connector, an RJ45 connector, they're so tiny and delicate compared to the huge contacts on USB-A.
00:20:01 ◼ ► And your weather defeated the USB-A connector. So I'm thinking those little tiny contacts on an ethernet connector don't stand a chance.
00:20:07 ◼ ► Well, the USB-A connector was not just bare in the world. It was inside. You can buy on Amazon these little sealed plastic boxes that are made for if you're running Christmas lights.
00:20:18 ◼ ► And you have a cable outside that you want to join with an extension cable or something.
00:20:23 ◼ ► And so even if you have two outdoor cables, or if you plug them into each other, that's going to be a joint that can rust and have problems.
00:20:29 ◼ ► So you can buy these plastic boxes that are made to put cable connections into and then they seal up from the elements.
00:20:37 ◼ ► That USB-A plug from last week or whenever, that was in one of those boxes. And it still got like this.
00:20:43 ◼ ► I think you need to start shopping, see this is getting you more towards the boat stuff, find things for people who live on boats.
00:20:51 ◼ ► That's what I look for. Whenever I'm looking for anything that goes outside, like a padlock or something.
00:20:56 ◼ ► Like, any of that stuff, I always look for like marine grade. But the thing is, everyone says everything is marine grade and then you get it.
00:21:04 ◼ ► Yeah, yeah. You got to actually go to the place where people who own boats shop and I bet it's just not on Amazon.
00:21:09 ◼ ► I don't think people who own boats have things last forever for them. Like, think about what boat ownership is like.
00:21:14 ◼ ► I know. You know, it lasts pretty long. One of my favorite sailing channels that I watch, I've been watching for many, many years.
00:21:24 ◼ ► Yeah, they have a, I think it's like a five cylinder Volvo engine in their sailboat for when there's no wind.
00:21:32 ◼ ► Connected to a transmission and everything. And like, it's in a sailboat and they live at sea.
00:21:36 ◼ ► So it's the worst case scenario. And this thing lasted for years. They just recently replaced some parts and I'm like, how do you have a giant hunk of metal in a sailboat at sea that has lasted you this long?
00:21:47 ◼ ► There must be some way that boat people know how to seal things up so they don't rot. Same thing, they had solar panels so they just replaced the solar panels after several years.
00:21:54 ◼ ► I'm like, how are those solar panels functioning? Marco can't keep a USB-A plug functioning outside his house.
00:21:59 ◼ ► You're literally in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with these solar panels. Anyway, they must know something we don't.
00:22:05 ◼ ► Maybe there's a lot of dielectric grease on things. I guess. I don't know. Because like, you know, I buy stuff that claims to be like, you know, stainless steel, everything.
00:22:12 ◼ ► And then you get it. And it's like, yeah, okay, maybe like the main body of the thing is stainless steel. But somewhere there's two screws that are not and they rust out instantly.
00:22:21 ◼ ► And you can always tell, like, oh, they didn't get that one washer in stainless steel. There's always something. There's some part on everything that is clearly, you know, just crap metal and it rusts instantly out here.
00:22:33 ◼ ► And despite everything claiming to be marine grade or whatever. So I think marine grade is a bunch of horse crap, personally. In my experience, that doesn't actually lend much credibility to the longevity of a product out here.
00:22:45 ◼ ► I don't think there's probably no laws governing the use of that phrase. You can put it on anything.
00:22:53 ◼ ► All right. So Marco, when you're buying all this stuff, how are you going about doing that?
00:22:57 ◼ ► Oh, yes, this is one of the things I wanted to cover. So I mentioned last episode about the Ubiquiti router. I was trying to get this router that was out of stock on Ubiquiti site.
00:23:07 ◼ ► And I ended up ordering it from some Amazon scalper for like a $50 premium because I just I kind of needed like the internet connections being installed in like two days. So I needed I need the router.
00:23:17 ◼ ► So I ended up buying it from them. And then about two hours after it shipped from that vendor.
00:23:23 ◼ ► It was pointed out to me by a few people actually, that B&H is a Ubiquiti retailer. And they had it in stock for only a $30 premium instead of a $60 premium.
00:23:35 ◼ ► So now I know and I ended up buying all the surveillance stuff from B&H because I they're they're local to us here in New York. They are a wonderful retailer. I've bought from them forever.
00:23:47 ◼ ► I don't buy everything from them. But I always buy like things from them that Amazon will either treat poorly, or that has a high chance of being counterfeited.
00:23:59 ◼ ► So things like SD cards, or like fancy cameras, that kind of stuff I always buy from B&H. And if you're anywhere anywhere around New York, shipping is extremely fast. Like it's basically free overnight shipping.
00:24:10 ◼ ► So anyway, it's wonderful. I recommend them as a retailer. So when I learned they were Ubiquiti retailer, I'm like, Oh, done. I'm now I'm only buying from them.
00:24:17 ◼ ► So anyway, thanks for pointing that out, everybody. And thank you again. Thank you, everybody for all your feedback on Ubiquiti stuff and on the camera situation.
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00:26:27 ◼ ► Sure, this is a little bit of feedback about a suggestion. It was an Ask ATP question about what do you think about a Mac Pro that uses like a big RAM disk to make swap faster, to make up for the fact that Mac Pro SoCs can't have a lot of RAM on them.
00:26:42 ◼ ► It was a quite elaborate scenario that we discussed in a past episode. And Akshay Narayanan had some information to share about that.
00:26:49 ◼ ► He says, "Your discussion of this topic touched on a research product that I was part of, so I thought I would chime in. Jon was right to describe the technique as an expansion of the memory hierarchy.
00:26:59 ◼ ► And when restricted to low-performance personal/professional computing, which covers everything Apple manufactures, this discussion was correct."
00:27:05 ◼ ► You can tell someone's an academic when they talk about "low-performance computing." Those wimpy little computers you have in your desk that don't fill entire rooms, right?
00:27:12 ◼ ► So Akshay continues, "However, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this technique in higher performance settings. A recent trend in both academia and industry has been in resource disaggregation.
00:27:22 ◼ ► In the specific context of memory, this is sometimes called 'far memory,' which refers to the unbundling of hardware resources from physical computers, almost always servers in a data center, due to hardware restrictions referred to as the 'memory capacity wall.'
00:27:34 ◼ ► Basically, the amount of memory that is possible to pack into a single server has an upper bound, and the only way around this is to either store less stuff in memory (this is unacceptably slow for the same reasons regarding page faulting that Jon mentioned)
00:27:47 ◼ ► or to put the memory somewhere else, which is basically the idea the Ask ATP question was considering.
00:27:52 ◼ ► The general rule of thumb is, remote memory is faster than local disk. Like any other level in the cache hierarchy, it works pretty well if there's stuff you need to access all at once, before then moving on to another batch of stuff to access all at once.
00:28:03 ◼ ► If you need to go pointer chasing through gigabytes of memory, on the other hand, this is not likely to play nice.
00:28:08 ◼ ► If you'd like to read more, here's my own paper from 2016, and we'll put a link in the show notes to that, that makes the use of the 'swap device' trick, and there are a couple other papers we'll link.
00:28:17 ◼ ► There's a Google paper that uses far memory in the sense of compressed pages in the same machine.
00:28:23 ◼ ► Mac OS does this, since it was called Mac OS X has done this, I think if you go into Activity Monitor you can look and see which pages are compressed. There's a way in Mac OS to see which memory is compressed, but Mac OS does this because it is faster and cheaper to compress and decompress the memory as it goes into and out of RAM than it would be to not do that and let it spill over into swap.
00:28:47 ◼ ► Because like I said, once you hit swap, you're not reading memory from a memory bus anymore, now you're asking the operating system to run a whole bunch of code that invokes the I/O subsystem that reads from disk that goes through the disk driver and it's just so much slower.
00:29:00 ◼ ► So you would think, isn't that going to be incredibly inefficient to run compression routines when you're reading and writing data from RAM? That turns out to be the most optimal path and that's what Mac OS does for I think pretty much all memory, but like I said, I think there's a way you can tell in the OS which pages are compressed or whatever.
00:29:16 ◼ ► And there's also another paper that tries to figure out how much performance gains there are to be had by using techniques like this.
00:29:23 ◼ ► So the idea of far memory is fun, but it really is not particularly relevant to personal computers because they're talking about a data center with tons and tons of machines in them and you're basically using RAM that is not installed on your computer, it's installed on the computer three racks over, sort of just collecting all that RAM together as one giant pool.
00:29:47 ◼ ► Alright, in the last couple of days as we record this on a Sunday night, which is a little unusual, we got some news that Apple is in the App Store are going to require developers to describe why their apps use certain APIs. This broke just a couple of days ago.
00:30:02 ◼ ► I don't think it was breaking news. I think they said this at WWDC but nobody noticed because it was one of those sessions that's boring and nobody looks at.
00:30:11 ◼ ► I vaguely recall, because it's in a WWDC session, so it was there and I think I watched some of that session, I think I recall seeing this but I kind of didn't pay much attention to it.
00:30:21 ◼ ► But because it's been a story on "mainstream Mac websites" now people are noticing again. So it's not actually news news, but I think what has happened is that the thing they talked about at the WWDC session is now a real thing that you can do.
00:30:34 ◼ ► So that's the news. They talked about it at WWDC but I think it didn't ship until the latest version of Xcode 15 that's out now.
00:30:40 ◼ ► Yeah, so we'll put a summary from 9to5Mac in the show notes and I believe this is quoting from there.
00:30:47 ◼ ► "As detailed on the Apple developer website, some APIs are now classified as 'required reason APIs.'
00:30:53 ◼ ► This means that in order to use them in an app, the developer must describe to Apple the purpose of that API in the app.
00:30:58 ◼ ► The company explains that the measure aims to crack down on fingerprinting, a technique for tracking users across different apps and websites."
00:31:05 ◼ ► So if you look at the documentation for this, which will be linked in the show notes as well,
00:31:09 ◼ ► and I started looking through this the other day when this came out, "File timestamp APIs."
00:31:13 ◼ ► Well, I'm not entirely sure how that gets to fingerprinting, but okay, whatever, that's fine.
00:31:24 ◼ ► "Active keyboard APIs." You know, what languages are accessible to the user? Yeah, that makes sense.
00:31:36 ◼ ► Now if you're not an iOS developer, user defaults is the, I would describe it as like the default place to,
00:31:41 ◼ ► that's overusing the word, this is the standard place to store little chunks of information like the user's preferences for things and stuff like that.
00:31:50 ◼ ► Yeah, in fact, on Mac OS, if you look in the library folder and you have a preferences subfolder of that,
00:31:55 ◼ ► and you have all those like, you know, com.domainname.whatever.plist files, that's where user defaults are stored on the Mac.
00:32:02 ◼ ► It's that for iOS, basically, and it's a similar storage mechanism there, you just don't see it,
00:32:08 ◼ ► but it's like those little plist files that have little bits and pieces of preference data usually.
00:32:12 ◼ ► Yeah, and plist meaning property list, it's basically an XML, you know, kind of equivalent of JSON sort of kind of.
00:32:18 ◼ ► And when we say preferences, though, we mean like any app that has any kind of setting, do you want light mode or dark mode?
00:32:24 ◼ ► You know, what do you want your default homepage to be in your web browser? What's the minimum font size?
00:32:29 ◼ ► Like literally any setting, if you go into settings and there's a checkbox or radio on or whatever,
00:32:33 ◼ ► on pretty much any Apple platform, you can store that however you want, but in practice, everybody just uses user defaults
00:32:49 ◼ ► just so you know like which checkbox they checked, which thing they picked from whatever.
00:32:59 ◼ ► but all of my apps use it for just a handful of little switches and bits and bobs here and there.
00:33:04 ◼ ► It's nothing particularly interesting or exciting, but that's the obvious place to turn.
00:33:09 ◼ ► And so now we need to justify the use of something that basically every damn app on the planet uses.
00:33:20 ◼ ► how or why it is that user defaults they feel is privacy risky or maybe privacy leaking,
00:33:38 ◼ ► pretty much every iOS developer touches user defaults for at least one or two pieces of data.
00:33:43 ◼ ► Yeah, that's why this has become a story because like, okay, so you have to give a reason
00:33:48 ◼ ► why you use a bunch of these APIs that use fingerprinting, and it's an example of bad actors ruining it for everybody
00:33:59 ◼ ► like all sorts of clever ways to track you without using cookies in the web world or like the same thing in iOS.
00:34:04 ◼ ► They need something to uniquely identify you, and so they try to combine a bunch of information
00:34:21 ◼ ► But once they threw user defaults in there, that's basically saying that to a reasonable approximation
00:34:33 ◼ ► This thing in Xcode, you just create a little document, then you got to enter which APIs you use.
00:34:45 ◼ ► And Apple has reason codes that say, okay, if you use these APIs, here are the valid reason codes for you.
00:35:09 ◼ ► Declare this reason to access user defaults to read and write information that is only accessible to the app itself.
00:35:15 ◼ ► This reason does not permit reading information that was written by other apps or the system
00:35:23 ◼ ► That may sound reasonable to you, because it's like, okay, well, you know, I'm starting preferences for my app.
00:35:28 ◼ ► But the thing is, when I read this, I said, the one and only reason that you're allowed to use user defaults
00:35:39 ◼ ► because my two apps that use user defaults use a feature supported by Apple called App Groups,
00:35:51 ◼ ► and that allows them a shared pool of user defaults that is shared between the two apps.
00:35:58 ◼ ► or if you want one app to know about the settings of another app while still, you know,
00:36:06 ◼ ► CA 92.1, the one and only reason you're allowed to use user defaults, does not allow this.
00:36:10 ◼ ► It explicitly says, "Read and write information that is only accessible to the app itself," and that's not true.
00:36:18 ◼ ► They do have their own separate user defaults, but they both write to shared user defaults.
00:36:33 ◼ ► Here's the wording they say. It says, "If you have a use case that directly benefits users
00:36:40 ◼ ► complete and submit this form." And here's what the form asks you, and I filled out this form.
00:36:47 ◼ ► So I basically said I've got two apps. They have shared user defaults using app groups.
01:10:56 ◼ ► because you're using the keyboard commands because you don't want to keep clicking things,
01:11:24 ◼ ► How many photos do I have that are A, cropped, and B, cropped with the original aspect ratio?
01:11:41 ◼ ► You can do a smart album, and then you can combine it with the data from SQLite to get this answer.
01:11:46 ◼ ► That's a minimum estimate, because sometimes you crop more than once and change your mind.
01:11:51 ◼ ► Sometimes you make it portrait, then landscape, and you decide you want to change the aspect ratio and change it back.
01:12:15 ◼ ► Now, there are ways around this for trackpad users, PowerBook, laptop users that have trackpads, or Mac users who have trackpads.
01:12:27 ◼ ► Then you don't have to click original, because if you pinch and zoom, it will maintain the aspect ratio,
01:12:34 ◼ ► But that is much less precise, pinching and zooming, much less precise than grabbing one of the corners of the little crop thingy or whatever.
01:12:47 ◼ ► So when I did this, because I don't have a trackpad and don't use a trackpad to do my editing,
01:13:04 ◼ ► What it's really like is I don't use photos for a long period of time, and then over the course of 3 days,
01:13:09 ◼ ► I click crop aspect original, crop aspect original, crop aspect original thousands of times.
01:13:15 ◼ ► What I would like is for the photos application to declare in their privacy manifest thing or whatever
01:13:25 ◼ ► And in the user defaults API, they're going to store an integer value that indicates the last aspect ratio
01:13:44 ◼ ► because the photos application would have remembered for the past 8 years this person has clicked this 16,000 times.
01:13:56 ◼ ► It seems that over the past 16,171 photos this person has cropped, they have chosen original 16,171 times.
01:14:25 ◼ ► But I don't care. I don't care if I'm literally the only person on the planet who wants the original.
01:15:20 ◼ ► You can't use it to edit a thousand photos without noticing that it does not remember your aspect ratio.
01:15:26 ◼ ► I would like, sometime in the next decade, someone to make it remember that I am always going to click original.
01:15:42 ◼ ► Have you ever considered using some other photo ingesting app to do your initial first pass and basic cropping and everything.
01:16:25 ◼ ► Even when you edit an external editor, you can preserve edits or whatever and be able to revert to the original.
01:16:33 ◼ ► I don't know of a way to do that in a way that when I feed it into photos it continues to be non-destructive.
01:16:49 ◼ ► Where someone applied for a job and in their first two weeks on the job they went into the repo for the code.
01:16:56 ◼ ► They fixed some bug that had been bothering them and then they gave the two weeks notice.
01:17:03 ◼ ► I mean, granted, it's kind of a fantasy to think that you're going to spend two weeks fixing this.
01:17:07 ◼ ► Because even if you were a new employee at Apple, it would probably take you six months to get this through the bureaucratic process to be in the thing.
01:17:26 ◼ ► And then you'd have to herd it through the release process and it would come out in Mac OS, you know...
01:17:34 ◼ ► If you're lucky, if it isn't already too late to get it into that release, you have to justify it to some high up person.
01:17:42 ◼ ► Is this a strategic thing? Someone wants to add a user to fault? We have too many settings already."
01:17:57 ◼ ► But that seems like a lot of effort. It would be great if someone could just pick up this feedback and just do it.
01:18:13 ◼ ► For whatever reason, I think it's probably because something was being wonky and I did the thing where you hold down command and option when you launch photos on the Mac.
01:18:31 ◼ ► But every once in a while, the people detection in photos on the Mac loses its way and kind of forgets what you think it once knew.
01:18:52 ◼ ► It will remember that you said that and sink it across all your devices so you don't have to say it again elsewhere.
01:19:03 ◼ ► But what it seems to lose is, okay, based on your affirmative answers of who your son is, who your daughter is, who your wife, all these people are,
01:19:14 ◼ ► You didn't affirmatively identify it as them, but based on the ones you did identify, I can figure out this is also your son.
01:19:23 ◼ ► And certainly if you import thousands of new photos, it has to go over those photos and say, "Based on what you've told me, let me go through these photos and
01:19:31 ◼ ► A) Find all the faces in them, which is task number one, and B) Of all the faces that I found, do any of those faces belong to people that you've previously identified so I can group them in?"
01:19:42 ◼ ► And when I gather my thousands of photos from vacation and edit them and favorite them and keyword them and do all that stuff,
01:19:50 ◼ ► one of the things I also want to do is have sub-smart albums like "Long Island 2023 Favorites of My Daughter"
01:20:12 ◼ ► And when I'm editing photos, I'm loading them on my laptop at the beach, and then when I come home, I start up my Mac and they all sync there and everything gets loaded up.
01:20:24 ◼ ► And probably a day or two after I'm back, I'm like, "Okay, now it's time for me to start doing my photo editing. Make my albums, make my book."
01:20:32 ◼ ► And I was thwarted this year because my little smart albums that I would make to help me arrange things for the book had no idea who was in any of the photos.
01:20:41 ◼ ► And I'm like, "Why does Favorites of My Daughter from Long Island 2023 have zero photos in it?"
01:20:47 ◼ ► And I went and looked through my photos from Long Island and I'm like, "Nah, you can turn on a thing in Mac Photos that will put circles around people's faces. You can view where it found the faces."
01:20:58 ◼ ► And I'm faced with that situation that we're all kind of faced with in Mac OS and Mac apps and many apps that Apple makes, which is, "Alright, what do I do now?"
01:21:10 ◼ ► Like, what I wanted to say was, "Apple Photos, find faces. Do that now because I can't do the thing that I want to do until you find faces."
01:21:25 ◼ ► And lots of things like this are sort of like, "You don't have to worry about that. There's no button to find faces. It will just find them for you. Don't worry about when it will find them. Don't worry about how it will find them.
01:21:36 ◼ ► In fact, we'll find them at a low priority, only when you're plugged into battery and this, like, there's all sorts of conditions and you don't have to worry about it."
01:21:44 ◼ ► Well, I do have to worry about it if I have thousands of photos where you haven't found the faces, let alone identified who's in them, and it's blocking my work.
01:21:51 ◼ ► So what I would like to say is, right now, on my plugged-in desktop computer, use every single resource in the system to find faces and identify.
01:21:59 ◼ ► Use all the cores. Use all the GPU. Use everything. I'm literally not going to be doing anything else on my computer.
01:22:05 ◼ ► You have the full power of this mighty Intel Mac Pro to right now identify all the faces on these thousands of photos. Do it now.
01:22:13 ◼ ► Excuse me, excuse me. Once mighty Intel Mac Pro. It's still mighty because it still has the highest potential GPU capability of any Mac. Potential.
01:22:29 ◼ ► And so you end up on Google, and what you will find on Google are tons and tons of results for how do I make Mac photos identify my faces right now, right now, right now.
01:22:39 ◼ ► And there's all sorts of, you know, witchcraft and superstition about how to do it. I will link to one of the pages and it's like, you can, you know, okay, so restart your computer because that's always step number one.
01:22:54 ◼ ► Log in, launch photos to get the photos demons to run, launch activity monitors and search for photos so you can see them.
01:23:01 ◼ ► So you want photo, you want to see photo cloud library, the photo library, the photo analysis D, but then quit photos because photos can't be running when identifies faces photos will say something like we will identify faces when you're not using the application.
01:23:14 ◼ ► But that language makes people debate on the Internet. Does that mean photos can be running, but I'm not using it or should photos should photos be quit or photo will only run if photos is the app is running, but I'm not using it or will also run and photos is quit people like, okay, well, the photo analysis.
01:23:29 ◼ ► The demon won't launch until you launch photos once, but then quit photos and some people like you got to remove all login items, right?
01:23:36 ◼ ► There's just all all sorts of just like reckons people have about what is the precise second is. Oh, make sure photos isn't open on your iPad or your phone either with the same Apple ID.
01:23:46 ◼ ► Make sure multiple accounts aren't logged in. And I was doing all these things. I'm like, please, because I'm like everyone else. I'm an activity monitor and I'm trying to say photo analysis.
01:23:56 ◼ ► Why are you using 0% CPU? Am I looking at the wrong demon? Is it really photo library D that I should be looking out? But I would search for photo or cloud and they'd all be using 0% CPU.
01:24:06 ◼ ► There's nothing going on in my system. Everything is logged out. The only time I logged into a single account with nothing else running. And I'm just like, please, please analyze faces.
01:24:16 ◼ ► Please analyze for days. I'm trying to get this thing to analyze. And then sometimes I'll come back to them like photo analysis is using 60% CPU. Oh, it's down to zero again. Was that a fluke?
01:24:27 ◼ ► And you'll come back to the people library and it will say, oh, sometimes it'll say you have, you know, 10,000 more photos to analyze. Come back later and they'll probably be done.
01:24:37 ◼ ► But I'm like, please. Like it took me like three days of just delicately trying to arrange the world so that my Mac felt like it was safe for it to analyze faces in my photos, as opposed to having a button somewhere in settings that says, analyze the faces right now.
01:24:56 ◼ ► That's what I want. And this is, this is not a good user experience because if you aren't willing to Google the world and figure out how you have to get everything just so, so it feels comfortable enough to analyze faces, you would never know.
01:25:09 ◼ ► Like you, you would think this feature doesn't even exist. And for this, during this time, that's literally the only thing I wanted to do in my computer. I wanted to make my photo book.
01:25:19 ◼ ► I wanted to make these smart albums. I wanted to do this thing and I couldn't do it because my computer, which was otherwise idle, refused to do the thing I wanted to do all in service of having this magical, don't worry about it behind the scenes.
01:25:32 ◼ ► I'll do this whenever you want. Like, I won't drain your battery. Don't worry. I'll do it when I feel safe. I just wanted to do it right now.
01:25:39 ◼ ► So that's complaint number two. And it's a meta complaint because it's true across tons of Apple's applications where they want it to be a magical user experience where you don't have to worry your pretty little head about it.
01:25:48 ◼ ► But sometimes I just want a button to do it. That's why we always talk about the sync button in messages as this amazing thing. I mean, it doesn't work all the time or whatever, but just to have some kind of button that says, do the thing now.
01:25:59 ◼ ► The thing that you're afraid to do because you think it's going to drain my battery or make my system slow, whatever, do it now. And then maybe a button to cancel it, you know, or whatever. Like, call me crazy.
01:26:09 ◼ ► Like, I feel like we've gone backwards in technology with this whole magical, I'll do it behind the scenes and you don't have to worry about it. Sometimes it needs to be done right now.
01:26:18 ◼ ► So that's number two. So number one, remember the aspect ratio I want. That's a single user setting. And number two, some way for me to tell photos to do this and all the many other things that photos claims to do for you in the background transparently so you don't have to worry about it.
01:26:35 ◼ ► Just that, Jon. Two things, just two things this year. Not even going to talk about the info window and how it is incredibly hostile to all forms of user input. How kind of you.
01:26:45 ◼ ► Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for your troubles. And I don't know. I don't do a lot of these editing things that you do in photos, which probably makes my pictures not as great as yours. But nevertheless, I can see how that would be incredibly, incredibly frustrating. And I am deeply amused that you went spelunking through the SQLite database in order to answer this question for yourself.
01:27:10 ◼ ► That's just to make a snarkier feedback. You know, that wasn't really part of the process. I did eventually analyze all my photos, by the way, for I think it was three days of trying to arrange the world. It's kind of like, you know, I'm trying to think of an analogy of like just, you know, the stereotypical thing where there's a bunch of guys in a movie are trying to pee, but they can't pee if someone's watching them or they need to have water running or whatever like that whole.
01:27:31 ◼ ► It almost is like my computer. It's like, I can't do it if you're watching me leave the room and don't have any other apps running. And then I'll think about analyzing face up. No, you scared it away again.
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01:29:43 ◼ ► For me, I'm pretty sure I'm not even using this anymore. But the one place that I can think of off the top, or I think it's the only place I'm using UIKit is speaking of spelunking.
01:29:55 ◼ ► The Internet's favorite spelunker, Guy Rambo, helped me figure out a way to determine if the search field is focused or not.
01:30:03 ◼ ► But as I think Marco and I talked about just a couple of weeks ago, that is coming in Iowa 17. It's just not there in 16. And I'm pretty sure that's the only place I'm using UIKit in CallSheet.
01:30:13 ◼ ► But Marco, what are you doing in Overcast? I know you've said that there's been some times in the new rewrite that you've considered dropping down to UIKit. Are you actually doing that at all? Or did you just think about it in an abandoned ship?
01:30:27 ◼ ► Well actually, Casey is the only one who can actually answer this question because neither Marco nor I have quote-unquote "Swift UI apps."
01:30:35 ◼ ► He has UIKit apps, and I have AppKit apps, and we use Swift UI, but only Casey, if I'm correct here, has the actual Swift UI app lifecycle thing. That's what you have, right, Casey?
01:30:49 ◼ ► Actually, Jon, that's not correct for me. I have a Swift UI app. Really? You went full-fledged to the Swift UI app lifecycle thing? No wonder it's taking you forever.
01:30:59 ◼ ► No, it's not Overcast. Oh, that's right. What is it, the Tide thing? I have my Fire Island driving app. Yeah, that is all Swift UI, except since I wrote it last year, it had to be compatible with iOS 15 and 16.
01:31:17 ◼ ► Yeah, and two of them had iOS 15. That's why, because it's not all tech nerds. It's like real people. Users ruin everything.
01:31:25 ◼ ► Yeah. Anyway, so that is almost all Swift UI, except I have to wrap all the MapKit stuff, because I think Swift UI just got MapKit now with iOS 17, or at least maybe 16. But anyway, so I had to wrap all that stuff.
01:31:39 ◼ ► So I had to drop down to UIKit for tons and tons and tons of the map stuff, and that honestly really sucked. But if I were writing that app from scratch today, I wouldn't need UIKit probably for anything anymore.
01:31:52 ◼ ► And I think that's where I am with my rewrite, which you didn't ask, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I am actually using entirely Swift UI, I think, for pretty much everything.
01:32:03 ◼ ► There's been occasionally a time where I'll run into some issue like, how do I style the, you know, how do I apply my font, which is not the system default font, it has a few tweaks.
01:32:14 ◼ ► I use sf-rounded, and I use the alternative 4, 6, and 9 glyphs. So I need, like, for part of my interface to look correct, I have to be able to customize the font.
01:32:25 ◼ ► Sometimes I'll have an issue with Swift UI, like, alright, well, how do I customize the font of this navigation bar title, or something like that. Occasionally I've had to dip into UIKit to style certain appearance attributes like that.
01:32:38 ◼ ► But then, like, a month or two later, I'll find some way to do it where I don't need that anymore, and then I'll take it out.
01:32:44 ◼ ► So right now, I have, I think, either almost nothing or nothing that's UIKit in the current build of the app.
01:32:49 ◼ ► But, you know, it peaks in here and there, but I'm trying very hard to not need it. That being said, you know, for the questioner here, it depends a lot on what your app is doing.
01:33:00 ◼ ► Like, you know, last year when I had to make an app that uses MapKit, well, I didn't really have much of a choice. I kind of had to use UIKit there.
01:33:07 ◼ ► And so, I think, you know, obviously it depends what your app is doing, but if your app is doing something that can be done in 100% Swift UI, it's generally recommended, I think, these days that you do it in Swift UI.
01:33:24 ◼ ► Even though I'm not using UIKit, I'll answer this from the AppKit perspective. My app is an AppKit app. My main UI is Swift UI. But in some cases where I could have used one or the other, for example, the context menus, I have right-click menus on my little things.
01:33:39 ◼ ► You can do that in Swift UI, and I did it in Swift UI using the Swift UI native, like, context menu pop-up thingy, and it looked and behaved terribly on the Mac.
01:33:49 ◼ ► And so I just used AppKit for it, because AppKit menus work and they look and work exactly how you would think they would.
01:33:56 ◼ ► If you use the Mac, have you used the menu bar, you know those menus, I want those menus.
01:34:00 ◼ ► And the things Swift UI was giving me was not those. So I chose to use AppKit for that context menu, even though I could have used Swift UI.
01:34:07 ◼ ► There's tons of lifecycle stuff. When we talk about lifecycle, I mean, like, what is the top level of your code? How do you define, this is my app, and these are the parts of my app, and here's where execution begins in the code that I wrote.
01:34:18 ◼ ► This is the first line of the code that I wrote that runs in the second and the third, like, that's what we're talking about is the lifecycle, like, the top level structure.
01:34:25 ◼ ► There's lots of things you can do in an AppKit app that currently don't have an equivalent place in the quote-unquote native Swift UI, like, from top to bottom thing.
01:34:36 ◼ ► All sorts of callbacks and delegates and stuff like that that I use to implement functionality in my app that don't exist in the Swift UI top level thing on the Mac.
01:34:45 ◼ ► Another example is my apps have menu bar icons. You can do that in Swift UI, but it's so much easier for me to do stuff like, oh, but what about when someone option clicks on it?
01:34:55 ◼ ► What about when they, you know, like, I have access to exactly what's happening at, like, the individual click level and all the modifiers and what's focused, and it's just so much easier to do that from AppKit,
01:35:07 ◼ ► because in Swift UI, since it's all declarative, someone has to have thought about wanting that information at this point to make it accessible.
01:35:15 ◼ ► Whereas AppKit, it's all imperative, and I can just go get that information wherever I want it.
01:35:19 ◼ ► And in fact, there's tons of callbacks for everything you can possibly imagine in AppKit, because it's like a 40-year-old API or whatever the hell it is.
01:35:25 ◼ ► So I continue to use AppKit for all those things that haven't made it into Swift UI yet, and for all the, like, the obscure, I mean, not that obscure,
01:35:36 ◼ ► but they're kind of obscure because my apps are not, like, my apps are not normal apps that just have, like, it's not a document-based app with a bunch of windows and saving things.
01:35:48 ◼ ► And I imagine it's similar on UIKit. If you're doing something out of the ordinary, Swift UI probably hasn't gotten around to implanting your thing,
01:35:55 ◼ ► but UIKit probably has some kind of hook or callback or delegate method or completion handler or something that does what you want.
01:36:02 ◼ ► Indeed. David Campbell writes, "What does Jon think about the Sony A6700? I set out the last upgrade opportunity, and I'm about to click by on an A6700.
01:36:13 ◼ ► Well, sorry, David, this probably took way too long, but nevertheless, to replace my A6300. Just curious about his thoughts.
01:36:20 ◼ ► I'll be using it much like Jon does, family vacations and outings. I have a few Sony lenses, so I'm feeling locked into the ecosystem.
01:36:25 ◼ ► Is it still a good camera when I feel like pulling out the "big camera," or should I jump to Canon?"
01:36:30 ◼ ► It's actually kind of timely. The A6700 just came out. The A-6-something-something-something-thousand line of cameras are Sony's APS-C cameras.
01:36:42 ◼ ► The sensor is smaller than full frame, and the cameras are also smaller. It was the first Sony that I really got into.
01:36:48 ◼ ► I had a series of them. I had the A6300, then I upgraded to the 6600, and the 6700 is the new one.
01:36:54 ◼ ► That's what they're asking about. All these cameras still just have APS-C sensors. The reason I used these APS-C ones is because when I want my long lens for the beach,
01:37:08 ◼ ► if I want an equivalent zoom distance on a full frame camera, the lenses are huge. Just massive, and so heavy, and so big, and so expensive.
01:37:20 ◼ ► Whereas on a smaller sensor, you get a double whammy. One, the lenses are smaller. They're just physically smaller.
01:37:28 ◼ ► Their diameter is smaller. They weigh less. They're not as long. They're smaller lenses.
01:37:32 ◼ ► And two, when you get a lens that says like mine, "350mm maximum zoom," that's 350mm at full frame with an APS-C sensor, like a 1.5x multiplier.
01:37:45 ◼ ► It's more zoomed in than that. It's more zoomed in than even that. So when I want to shoot people in the ocean waves and they are far out from the shore,
01:37:56 ◼ ► APS-C cameras are really great because I wouldn't want to buy a high quality, what is the equivalent of, 350x 1.6? Can't do the math in my head.
01:38:09 ◼ ► Try to find a full frame zoom lens like that, that's good quality, that's a huge amount of money, and then try carrying that in the hot sun for a long period of time.
01:38:19 ◼ ► It's too big. It's just too big. Maybe I'll eventually get to there. I look at them all the time and then I look at how much they weigh, how big they are, and I'm like, "No."
01:38:29 ◼ ► So, I think the APS-C camera size and this line of cameras is still worth having. I do wish that they would make the sensors a little bit better.
01:38:39 ◼ ► They increased the megapixels a little bit, they made the sensor a little bit better. It's the same sensor they've used in a lot of their video cameras.
01:38:45 ◼ ► So what have they done from the 6600 to the 6700? The 6600 was the previous top of the line, and it's got in-body stabilization, and it's got the best motion tracking stuff,
01:38:56 ◼ ► and the most features, and it uses the big battery, which I think is the most important feature. It uses the big battery from the full frame camera, so the battery lasts forever,
01:39:05 ◼ ► because this is a smaller camera, but with the battery from the big camera, it's kind of like the 15-inch MacBook Air. So the 6600 is great.
01:39:13 ◼ ► The 6700, to me, for my purposes, is not a pure win, because they made it thicker, like the body is thicker, which kind of cuts into the, "Oh, this is a small camera."
01:39:25 ◼ ► It doesn't weigh that much more, but it is visibly substantially thicker. They also made the handle bigger, so I guess that's good if you want to put your grip on it,
01:39:32 ◼ ► but they made it thicker. The sensor is a little bit better, but a lot of the features they added are for video. I don't care about video.
01:39:41 ◼ ► If you don't care about video with your camera, I feel like the 6700 is, I'm not going to say it's not a good deal,
01:39:51 ◼ ► but I would think hard about whether you should get the 6700 over the 6600 if you don't care about video,
01:39:58 ◼ ► because you're getting a thicker camera that takes slightly better pictures, but in exchange for, like, it costs more money, it's bigger.
01:40:07 ◼ ► I don't know, it's tough. The one thing that I pushed the 6700 over is they further improved the autofocus system and the tracking and all that,
01:40:15 ◼ ► and the 6700 has their, I don't know, everybody brands everything with AI, but their AI subject detection, which is better than the 6600.
01:40:24 ◼ ► It can find birds and insects and people and animals, and it's really good about following them, and it'll follow people even when their heads are turned,
01:40:31 ◼ ► their backs turn to you, and they turn back, like it'll keep focus on them the whole time. That is better on the 6700,
01:40:37 ◼ ► but it's not compelling me to upgrade, and if I was buying a camera straight out now, I would think a lot about getting a 6600 instead of 67,
01:40:46 ◼ ► just because all the features they added to this thing that have to do with video, I do not care about,
01:40:52 ◼ ► and I don't know, I guess I would probably go with it just for the AI motion tracking thing, but I say this not having actually held it in my hand.
01:41:00 ◼ ► I might be disappointed in the extra thickness, so think about the 6600, hold the 6700, if you can handle the extra size and weight,
01:41:13 ◼ ► Ben Gunzberger writes, "Every time you talk about your use of platforms like Twitter or Mastodon or Threads, I'm sorry, X, or Mastodon or Threads,
01:41:23 ◼ ► it feels like I'm using a totally different service. I've tried multiple times to get value out of them, but every time it's the same cycle.
01:41:30 ◼ ► I log on and mostly see a lot of very low quality comments from people with nothing interesting to say.
01:41:34 ◼ ► Then I manage to find a few people I respect and try to join interesting conversations but get no responses or feedback, including from ATP.
01:41:41 ◼ ► Then I give up and go back to one-way communication, such as podcasts, newsletters, RSS Flipboard, etc.
01:41:48 ◼ ► Maybe I just haven't persevered enough, but I hear people talking about the great discussions and friendships they've experienced on these platforms,
01:41:58 ◼ ► I totally sympathize with what Ben is saying, although it certainly sounds like you're not coming to this with a terribly open mind.
01:42:10 ◼ ► I can probably speak for the three of us. We get a surprising amount of mentions on Mastodon and previously on Twitter.
01:42:35 ◼ ► when you're getting 100 mentions a day, you're just not going to respond to all of them.
01:42:39 ◼ ► It doesn't mean that something that you tweeted, tweeted, X'd at us wasn't good or interesting or useful.
01:42:51 ◼ ► But generally, the way I've made inroads into clicks or social circles, even in these social networks,
01:43:10 ◼ ► perhaps somebody else makes an interesting point to one of us that you happen to see, and then you comment to them.
01:43:18 ◼ ► Over time, you start to realize, "Oh, I spoke to that guy or that girl or that person, whatever.
01:43:25 ◼ ► I spoke to them three weeks ago, and we shared that one witty story," or whatever the case may be.
01:43:32 ◼ ► I think, to some degree, yeah, you might have to persevere more, and to some degree, you might have to open your mind a little more.
01:43:44 ◼ ► I think the key to getting into a social network and getting into communities is to not expect the world immediately, but to be persistent.
01:43:57 ◼ ► In a community, people who show up and who are consistently putting out interesting or good or kind thoughts tend to get found
01:44:09 ◼ ► and tend to get integrated into the community over time, but it might take a little while.
01:44:14 ◼ ► It might take some persistence. It might take making some posts here and there that not a lot of people see for a while, and you just kind of keep at it.
01:44:28 ◼ ► It's a little bit harder now in the fragmented world of the random Twitter spin-offs, basically.
01:44:37 ◼ ► All these different communities that have broken off of Twitter or communities that have been previously Twitter, like Macedon, but have been invaded by Twitter refugees
01:44:48 ◼ ► It was much easier on Twitter when that was the big game in town when "everybody" was just in one place. It was just Twitter.
01:44:58 ◼ ► That's one of the greatest powers that Twitter had back before the doofus bought it and ruined it, is that it was the one place where so many people were.
01:45:08 ◼ ► You could assume, if you wanted to have a conversation with any media personality, any celebrity, any famous person, any content creator, any company,
01:45:20 ◼ ► you could be reasonably sure they were probably on Twitter, and you'd go look and you'd probably find them.
01:45:25 ◼ ► That is gone now, and it's fragmented now, and it's going to remain fragmented for the foreseeable future, as we've talked about.
01:45:32 ◼ ► It's harder now in the sense that now you might need to go to multiple places to try to develop communities or audiences or whatever.
01:45:41 ◼ ► It would probably help most to specialize to one. Rather than bouncing between a bunch of different places, I would say stick on one and try to establish yourself there.
01:45:53 ◼ ► The problem is there, it's kind of hard to know which one right now, and there's been so much turbulence in the last 10, 12 months in terms of all the different services.
01:46:05 ◼ ► Twitter's ruined, and now where are we going to go? Let's try Mastodon, and now, oh hey look, there's Blue Sky, oh now look, there's Threads, oh my god.
01:46:12 ◼ ► There's all these things going on everywhere, and there's no clear winner yet, and there might never be one, or it might be a very long time.
01:46:20 ◼ ► Twitter is still around, even though now it's renamed, and it's progressively getting worse, but it's still there, there's still a bunch of people there.
01:46:27 ◼ ► Mastodon is still very much around and still doing great, and that's where I spend most of my time.
01:46:32 ◼ ► Threads is still booming like crazy, and everyone's using it now, but there's also still Mastodon.
01:46:38 ◼ ► Blue Sky, I think, probably doesn't have a great future ahead of it, but it's still there, and there's still a community there.
01:46:45 ◼ ► So now there's a whole bunch of places, and it's kind of hard to know which one to invest in, so it can be a little tricky.
01:46:51 ◼ ► But I can tell you from somebody who has the privilege of having the audience on these platforms, you're seeking the experience that I have to some degree.
01:47:04 ◼ ► It was built up over the last 15 years or whatever it's been, putting out good stuff on a regular basis, or at least putting out stuff on a regular basis.
01:47:12 ◼ ► It wasn't all good, but putting out stuff on a regular basis, and over time, that develops communities and audiences.
01:47:19 ◼ ► When I look through the mentions for an account, or when I look through emails, I don't respond to most of them, because, as Casey was saying, sometimes we get a lot.
01:47:27 ◼ ► Like, an example, this Ubiquity camera topic, or the home security camera topic, we've gotten so much feedback.
01:47:35 ◼ ► There are so many emails that have been incredibly detailed, helpful things, and I've responded to some, but it's been a lot.
01:47:43 ◼ ► And so there's a lot that I'm not responding to. However, when I see the same name pop up every few weeks, I'll see somebody write an email with the same name, I'll start to remember some of those names.
01:47:56 ◼ ► Or on Twitter or Mastodon or whatever Twitter-like service I'm on this semester, I'll recognize people's usernames, and I'll start recognizing, "Oh, hey, it's them again. I remember them, and I remember their stuff."
01:48:09 ◼ ► When you are persistent, not like overbearing, not responding to every single thing, but when you are consistently having good feedback or good interaction in some way, or posting good stuff yourself,
01:48:23 ◼ ► that does tend to pick up traction eventually. It might take a little while, but it does pick up traction eventually.
01:48:29 ◼ ► And I would actually say, on one level, because we haven't really settled on where necessarily we're going to be long-term in a lot of cases yet, on one level it's hard to know where to invest your time, and that makes this kind of thing more difficult.
01:48:41 ◼ ► On the other level, every time one of these new services launches, all of us who go try it out go find new people to follow, because that's not only an opportunity to do that, because it's all brand new, and it's a kind of fresh, unclaimed ground, and freshly formed audiences that haven't collected into stars and galaxies yet, and everyone's kind of floating around after the Big Bang.
01:49:06 ◼ ► So there's a lot of opportunity when services change to get new audiences and new communities formed.
01:49:14 ◼ ► So even though it's a little hard to know where to focus your energy, which one of these communities to invest in right now, or which multiple of these communities to invest in right now, it is also a huge opportunity to establish yourself.
01:49:28 ◼ ► It's like changing schools. You're establishing yourself with new people, new environment, so there's a lot of opportunity there, but ultimately this boils down to put good stuff out there, and eventually it does tend to be found.
01:49:42 ◼ ► So Ben mentions a couple different things here. One is just seeing random comments from people. That's one of the reasons the chronological timeline is not the best for most people, because if you show up on a service and you're like, "Uh, and it's chronological timeline, who should I follow?"
01:50:00 ◼ ► Sometimes they'll suggest somebody you should follow, or maybe you try to find some of your friends who you follow them, but it's a pretty meager experience because you're like, "Okay, I thought of three people to follow, and either one of them seem to be either awake right now or using the service at all, so my timeline has nothing in it? Should I follow a famous person now?"
01:50:20 ◼ ► That seals empty, and so Ben says they find a few people they respect and try joining those conversations and don't get any response. I've followed the person who is the reason that I get into podcasting. I've followed that person for 16 years on Twitter.
01:50:36 ◼ ► I read all of their tweets because I'm a timeline completionist. I would respond when I thought I had something interesting to say. I've never gotten a response from that person. Never. 16 years. So that's the problem with finding important or famous people and saying, "I'm going to follow them and participate in their conversations."
01:50:57 ◼ ► Because of the volume, it's just impossible for those people to guarantee that you're going to get any kind of response. The amount of email we get, if you look at the total amount in our mailboxes, it's like, "Oh, that's not that much."
01:51:11 ◼ ► But if we responded to every single one of those emails, all we would do all day from when we woke up and went to sleep is respond to listener email. That would be our whole day.
01:51:20 ◼ ► That's nothing else. You stop for meals and go to the bathroom, but you'd just be answering email. Because giving a good answer to an email, a good thoughtful answer to a very long, well thought out email, requires that. Never mind follow-up emails and responses or whatever.
01:51:34 ◼ ► So talk to Merlin about it. It's important to manage your time and perhaps think about which emails require response, what do you have time to respond. That's why the person I followed for 16 years never replied to me. They don't hate me. They don't even know who I am. They get lots of replies.
01:51:51 ◼ ► Famous people, like real famous people, like celebrities or whatever, I forget about our little nerd circles, but like famous people, get too much stuff. So if you're going to go on a service and find people who are either little F famous or big F famous and think you're going to reply with something witty to them and suddenly you'll be involved in the conversation, that's probably not going to happen.
01:52:14 ◼ ► It doesn't reflect anything on you and it doesn't reflect anything on them. It's just a numbers game. They can't possibly, real celebrities, can't even look at all their replies. No matter what service they're on. Even if you're like, the first day that Blue Sky is here and a famous sci-fi author is on Blue Sky, maybe you'll get one response because there's five people on the service, but that's it.
01:52:34 ◼ ► So don't pin your hopes on becoming buddy-buddy with someone famous. It has nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with them. It's just about volume. So how do you go about finding people? First of all, this is what algorithmic timelines are for.
01:52:48 ◼ ► For services that offer them, especially services that offer ones that work in some reasonable way, and I think Threads does kind of work in a reasonable way, use the algorithmic timeline to discover subgroups that you might be interested in, hopefully that do not involve celebrities or anybody with tons of followers.
01:53:05 ◼ ► There is going to be some period of time where you're either mostly listening or trying to find the groups where you fit in, and the way you sort of become part of that group is by having something to offer.
01:53:25 ◼ ► Whatever it is that you are interested in, that you know about, that is a thing that you--everyone's got something that they're--whatever it is, it's like, I know everything about this particular reality show on TV.
01:53:38 ◼ ► You might think it's dumb, but there will become a time when someone in some group is having a conversation about that and you'll be like, you know what? I've seen every episode of that show and I've rewatched the seasons that I like 17 times, and now it's my time to shine.
01:53:52 ◼ ► And I can be helpful, useful, provide information that people didn't know, have an informed opinion, you know, like whatever thing you're good at.
01:54:01 ◼ ► You want to be able to do the thing that you're good at and offer the things that you have to offer, and that's how you'll stand out in a conversation.
01:54:11 ◼ ► And you don't know when that's going to be. You may be super interested, like I'm super interested in cars, but if someone's talking about Formula 1, I don't have anything to offer in that conversation. I like cars, I just am not into Formula 1.
01:54:23 ◼ ► And so if the famous people that I respect are talking about Formula 1, I can't provide any value to that conversation. And if I tried to, they're not going to remember me because I'm not providing anything that is memorable.
01:54:35 ◼ ► So part of this process of finding, you know, of making the services valuable is finding the group where you are a valued and valuable member.
01:54:45 ◼ ► And there's a million different ways to do that. It can be about hobbies, it can be about, you know, where you live, it can be about the fact that you just got married and you're involved with a group of other people who just got married.
01:54:55 ◼ ► Like, there's so many ways you can bin yourself, that's the magic of the internet. And in those subgroups where you have something to offer, you will become an important, notable, valued member of that by what you offer to the group.
01:55:10 ◼ ► Don't enter a subgroup about Formula 1 if you've never seen Formula 1. You will not become a valued member of that group unless you want to get into Formula 1, in which case, read that group for a year, and on year 2, you're going to be like, you know what?
01:55:22 ◼ ► I know a lot about Formula 1 now, and I can participate in these conversations, you know? So it takes time, but I feel like that's the thing that people miss.
01:55:30 ◼ ► And I think about the people who have become people that we know in our nerd subgroups, all of us at one point were not in this nerd subgroup that we're in.
01:55:40 ◼ ► We, you know, we were not in it at all, and we entered into it somehow by offering something that was found to be valuable.
01:55:48 ◼ ► Here's an example, _DavidSmith that we talk about on the program a lot. He came into this nerd circle kind of around the same time that we were entering into it as well.
01:55:59 ◼ ► The first time I remember seeing him was in the IRC chat room for my Hypercritical podcast. He was _DavidSmith in the chat room.
01:56:08 ◼ ► And the reason I recognize his name, even though it's probably like one of the most common names in the English language, David Smith, there's a lot of them in the world, I think.
01:56:16 ◼ ► Was because he was always in the chat room, and he always used _DavidSmith, and the things he said in the chat room were smart and interesting.
01:56:25 ◼ ► Because he turns out he knows stuff about, you know, the stuff we were talking about, Apple and technology stuff.
01:56:32 ◼ ► When I first started seeing his name, I didn't know he was an app developer. I didn't know he made iOS apps, right? I didn't know him from anybody.
01:56:40 ◼ ► I think he was in the chat room of Marco's podcast as well, Build and Analyze on 5x5. Where else was he?
01:56:47 ◼ ► If you were involved in the tech podcast world and they had a chat room, chances are you'd see someone named _DavidSmith in there.
01:56:55 ◼ ► Eventually we learned that he did make Mac apps, and he had a website, and he would tweet things, and he would blog about it, and he would talk about his apps, and eventually we met him in person and became friends with him.
01:57:03 ◼ ► First he was nobody, and then he was a name you saw, and then he was a name you remembered, and then he was somebody who was offering things.
01:57:11 ◼ ► In fact, a lot of people would, I bet if you listen to ADP, you know there's some people, not just Steve Stratton Smith, but some people you've heard who've offered feedback in the follow-up section.
01:57:20 ◼ ► You've heard their names over many years in ADP, and we know their names because we know they listen to the show, and they send us tons of feedback.
01:57:27 ◼ ► They send us 500 things as feedback, but they get three on the show, but that's three spread across three years, and you hear that same name once a year for three years.
01:57:38 ◼ ► Maybe if you were at WWDC and you were talking about ADP, you'd be like, "Oh, I recognize your name because they said it in the feedback section, or when they were talking about follow-up, or you know, Ask ATP."
01:57:50 ◼ ► And why are they in Ask ATP? Why are they in follow-up? Because they're offering answers to questions that we asked on the show, things we didn't know, or asking interesting questions that we think are things that other people might want to hear about.
01:58:03 ◼ ► That will happen in social media as much as it does on podcasts, as much as it does in chat rooms.
01:58:09 ◼ ► It's just that it's not going to happen instantly, and you have to know where and who you should be talking with, and where you are interested in participating, and where you have something to offer.
01:58:21 ◼ ► And if you don't have something to offer today, like I said, you can lurk there, which used to be a thing in the news, and you would lurk in the news group for several months before you even put your first post in, to get up to speed.
01:58:32 ◼ ► Because if you're interested in something, you eventually will become knowledgeable about it, and be able to participate in the conversation in a way you couldn't in the beginning.
01:58:40 ◼ ► So, I know it's frustrating to not just instantly be like, "Oh, here's a circle of people, and they welcome me, and we're all having fun together."
01:58:47 ◼ ► But that's tough to do. And the final thing I'll say is, almost all these little circles that we're talking about are a little apple nerd circle, and the sub-circles, or whatever.
01:58:55 ◼ ► Most of these, the way these tend to form, is not by looking in existing circles of famous people and joining it.
01:59:02 ◼ ► If that was true, I'd be in a circle with David Pogue and John Dvorak. I am not in a circle with those people.
01:59:07 ◼ ► Not because they're bad people or anything, but my dream reading Mac magazines is like, "I'm going to talk to those visionary people who are right on the back page of these Mac magazines."
01:59:16 ◼ ► Reality? I was never going to be in circles with them. Instead, I formed circles with a bunch of people who were "nobodies" who became somebodies over the course of 15 years of hanging out with each other.
01:59:27 ◼ ► There's this thing of like, "Oh, I see the people who are currently popular or famous, and I want to join them."
01:59:33 ◼ ► When in reality, you should be finding other people who are not popular and famous, just like you, and make your own circles with them, because you will be the next popular and famous people.
01:59:42 ◼ ► That's how it works. Everyone wants to look towards the famous people. Find the other people who are your current peers in experience or knowledge or whatever.
01:59:51 ◼ ► Join with them. It's like, "Oh, but I'd much rather be talking with these famous people." Yeah, but that's not going to happen.
01:59:59 ◼ ► John Dvorak never answered any of my letters, and he's actually kind of a jerk. David Pogue's cool, though.
02:00:05 ◼ ► Very rarely do you meet your heroes and become incorporated into little circles with them. What actually happens is you form your circles with your own people.
02:00:14 ◼ ► I would suggest, apply less value to the current fame of people and believe that you and your "non-famous" regular people friends have just as much value, because you do.
02:00:32 ◼ ► Thanks to our sponsors this week, Trade Coffee and Collide, and thanks to our members who support us directly. You can join us at atp.fm/join, and we will talk to you next week.
02:00:45 ◼ ► Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, 'cause it was accidental. (Accidental) Oh, it was accidental. (Accidental)
02:00:57 ◼ ► John didn't do any research, Margo and Casey wouldn't let him, 'cause it was accidental. (Accidental) Oh, it was accidental. (Accidental)
02:01:08 ◼ ► And you can find the show notes at atp.fm, and if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S, so that's Casey, Liszt, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, A-N-T, Margo, R-M-N, S-I-R-A-C, U-S-A, Syracuse.
02:01:34 ◼ ► It's accidental. (Accidental) They didn't mean to, accidental. (Accidental) Tech podcast, so long.
02:01:47 ◼ ► So, you know, a week or two ago, was it last week? I don't know, time is a blur right now. Last week I was at the beach, and I did something very, well, maybe unusual, I don't know.
02:01:57 ◼ ► So, late last year, I think it was, I was watching a video that a friend of the show, Quinn Nelson, did on YouTube about, I think it was like really good gift ideas for the holidays or something like that, I'll dig it up and put it in the show notes.
02:02:11 ◼ ► And Quinn had suggested, among many other things, that he really likes this one travel router. It has a really god-awful name, because of course, it's a little teeny tiny travel router, and the idea is, you know, you can bring that and you can perhaps, if you're at, say, a beach house, you can plug that either into their router or even replace the beach house's router, and use that instead.
02:02:40 ◼ ► And then it's a known quantity, and that works out really nicely, because then all of your devices, they don't need to, you know, you don't need to input some new SSID and some new password.
02:02:52 ◼ ► You know, you can either use literally the exact same SSID and password as you have at your house, or you can use, you know, some other known thing that all of your devices are familiar with and so on and so forth.
02:03:09 ◼ ► because one of the things, because this is specifically a travel router, one of the things that it does is it will, I forget the technical term for it, but it will basically re-
02:03:20 ◼ ► like, I don't want to say repost, that's not the word I'm looking for, I'm sorry, I'm very tired, but it will take like captive Wi-Fi, and you can spoof a MAC address of the router if you want to,
02:03:31 ◼ ► but it will take like a Wi-Fi connection and rebroadcast that as, you know, a different SSID and so on and so forth. There's a term for this, which I'm failing to think of.
02:03:41 ◼ ► You know, you can log in to the captive thingy through it, and then it rebroadcasts from that? How does that work?
02:03:47 ◼ ► Well, no, so what you would do is you would log in on your MAC, figure out your MAC's MAC address, that's a lot of MACs all in one spot.
02:04:04 ◼ ► It might be a M1 maximum, but anyways, so the point is, it will then rebroadcast Wi-Fi and whatnot.
02:04:14 ◼ ► And one of the neat things that this particular travel router does is that it will also, if you so choose, it can, at the router level, connect to a WireGuard access point.
02:04:26 ◼ ► So what I did at the beach was I brought this router, and then I plugged it in so it was double-natted, but it doesn't matter because there was nothing coming into this router, I just needed to get out.
02:04:38 ◼ ► So I plugged this router into their router because it was not locked away, and then I turned on the WireGuard client, and so that meant that not only is it extremely unlikely that the owner of the house,
02:04:54 ◼ ► I mean not that they would, but the owner of the house could snoop any of the stuff that I was doing, but even more importantly, I have my piehole, hi Marco, I have my piehole available to me.
02:05:06 ◼ ► It's like how like, you know, like butt jokes are always funny no matter how old you are, no matter how mature you are, like butts are funny.
02:05:16 ◼ ► So anyway, so I had that already all available on the travel router and so on and so forth, or on the network when we were at the beach house,
02:05:26 ◼ ► but one of the very interesting things that I was quite proud of myself for coming up with this idea, which is probably not that unique, but I was excited that I thought of it.
02:05:35 ◼ ► I am, and I think we've talked about this plenty of times in the past, I am one of those people that is kind of a nut job about always having some sort of music playing.
02:05:52 ◼ ► So basically, anytime I'm conscious, I'm either listening to a podcast, usually in headphones, or music oftentimes from our Sonos system that we have in the house.
02:06:07 ◼ ► The Roam is like sort of kind of small like a Jambox and the Move is quite bigger, quite a bit bigger.
02:06:12 ◼ ► Well, if I set the travel router up to use the same SSID and password as I have at home, hypothetically, I should be able to take my two portable speakers and put one on each floor of this two-story beach house, and they should just think they're at home.
02:06:29 ◼ ► And so I plugged in my travel router, I plugged in the, or I put the two travel speakers, roaming speakers, whatever, on their little charging bases, started them up, and just like that, I got a two-speaker Sonos system with pretty much no configuration at the beach house.
02:06:49 ◼ ► I'm surprised that that works as well, especially, you know, something like, like I know the Sonos speakers, that's, you know, they have Wi-Fi and some of them support Bluetooth, but usually they kind of need to be on their Wi-Fi network, at least for setup, and even sometimes after that, like it's a whole thing.
02:07:11 ◼ ► Okay, so I can't find Quinn's video, I'm going to have to try to find it for the Sonos after I'm done recording, but the travel router is the gl.inet, gl-mt-1300 barrel VPN wireless little travel router, connect to a hotel Wi-Fi and captive portal, USB 3.0 3 gigabit ports, range extender, assess point, not access, but assess point, pocket-sized microSD slot ready to set up.
02:07:46 ◼ ► And then we actually had brought this to Disney when we went in January, and it just so happened we won the hotel room lottery in Disney World, because in our hotel room in Disney World, surprisingly not in the ceiling or on the ceiling or anything like that, in the hotel room at Disney World, I can dig up a photo because I took a photo of it because I was so happy about it.
02:08:08 ◼ ► There was the wireless access point for that block of rooms near us, and not only that, but it had a live Ethernet port.
02:08:24 ◼ ► So here it was, I could just plug this router via Ethernet directly into a hotel access point, because if you know anything about any hotel, but particularly Disney hotels, the Wi-Fi is often trash.
02:08:39 ◼ ► But I didn't need to worry about that, because I had Ethernet baby, because we won the hotel room lottery.
02:08:46 ◼ ► But anyway, this little travel router, I'll put a link in the show notes to the Amazon link.
02:08:51 ◼ ► Now this GL.iNet company has many different flavors of this same router, you know, there's lots and lots and lots of different configurations that you can get.
02:09:05 ◼ ► But yeah, if you're going places with any sort of regular, not even regularity, but if you're going places for an extended length of time, like a week plus, I really really enjoyed having this.
02:09:22 ◼ ► So your story makes me think of secret weird things in the spirit of reconcilable differences.
02:09:29 ◼ ► I'm thinking in my head, if I did a poll, like what's your reckon about how many people are like Casey and want like music playing or audio playing?
02:09:51 ◼ ► I'm saying like, regardless of source, regardless of the source of the sound, it's like sound, like something other than just, you know,
02:09:58 ◼ ► a sound playing from something or not sound playing because Casey is very strongly in the sound playing camp.
02:10:06 ◼ ► And I and everyone kind of feel I can bend themselves, even if they're not strongly at one point or the other.
02:10:13 ◼ ► You kind of you know, so I would in my first instinct, of course, me being, you know, everyone thinks like, oh, whatever I do is normal.
02:10:20 ◼ ► That's the whole point of the whole secret weird things that, you know, so I'm thinking surely Casey is an outlier.
02:10:25 ◼ ► But then I think, but if you did that poll, would he be in the majority and how big a majority would it be?
02:10:41 ◼ ► As soon as they arrive home, they flip the TV on and the TV is playing, just playing, you know, ambiently, constantly.
02:10:56 ◼ ► Right. So a lot of people love having some kind of ambient media playback somewhere in their house all the time whenever they're there.
02:11:03 ◼ ► I personally, I don't give a crap about TV for the most part, but I love music and podcasts.
02:11:10 ◼ ► And so whenever I'm, if I'm like around the house and especially like it's interesting, like when I am alone in the house, I always want something playing.
02:11:29 ◼ ► But anyway, but yeah, like if I'm like, if I'm alone and I'm like, you know, going to make lunch for myself or have some coffee, I will definitely play either music or a podcast.
02:11:45 ◼ ► So now we're at 66 percent of the U.S. is like Casey and 33 percent is like me judging by ATP.
02:11:51 ◼ ► Well, and John, and as you know, ATP does not just represent the U.S., we represent the entire world as the world always lets us know whenever we state anything and they accuse us of being U.S. centric.
02:12:07 ◼ ► Anyway, to answer your another part of this, though, Casey, is that this was one of the great surprises that I learned when developing Overcast.
02:12:15 ◼ ► At some point, when I put analytics about output devices, a lot of people are fine to just listen to their phone speaker for both podcasts and also for music.
02:12:29 ◼ ► If you listen to a lot of podcasts and music out loud on your phone's built in speakers and you get terrible battery life, that's why.
02:12:51 ◼ ► Like I just I don't I sometimes if I can move out of the way, I'll move out of the way.
02:13:18 ◼ ► But a lot of times I will just I'll use my phone to play like, you know, music as I'm getting dressed or something like it's not our phones are surprisingly less crappy than we would think.
02:13:30 ◼ ► Actually, just for also in this department last night, for the first time, I think ever, I watched a TV show in bed on my phone with AirPods in.
02:13:51 ◼ ► I mean, I use my iPad most of the time, but I will watch a YouTube video on my phone sometimes.
02:14:03 ◼ ► So this is the first time I've ever watched a show like on my phone in bed with AirPods.
02:14:26 ◼ ► They don't have any even fancy dynamic backlighting, at least the one I have from a couple of years ago.
02:14:45 ◼ ► And of course, the answer is, you know, OLEDs would have ridiculous burn in if they tried to do what the frames do with their static idle image.
02:14:59 ◼ ► So, I mean, you're right about burn in, but it doesn't stop manufacturers from offering that.
02:15:20 ◼ ► Anyway, so I was watching some stupid show, like some, you know, some bad Apple TV plus show.
02:15:33 ◼ ► First of all, how much better it looked on my little phone screen than on my giant Samsung frame TV because it's an OLED.
02:16:12 ◼ ► And every single app that you use with your AirPods on your phone, you have to go to the spatial audio thing and pick, I turn it off.
02:16:27 ◼ ► And it kind of got me thinking like maybe I should probably like, you know, think about surround sound setups again.
02:16:37 ◼ ► You're pushing way off of the topic that I wanted to get the answer to, which is what's your guess?
02:16:57 ◼ ► I'm going to say if we're talking, you know, if we rule out like, you know, kids, which is like U.S. adults.