00:00:27 ◼ ► Good morning. If you would like more context for this, I guess check out our Instagram,
00:00:34 ◼ ► I'll explain it a little bit more, but there'll be some more of that over on our various videos,
00:00:56 ◼ ► Oh, you know, the truth is, road trips are long and the only way you can do it, I think,
00:01:05 ◼ ► at least the only way I can do it is by switching. So I try to kind of go back and forth between
00:01:13 ◼ ► music and spoken word. It's mostly podcasts, music and podcasts. I have done audiobooks.
00:01:18 ◼ ► I'm not an audiobook person, but I did. I was driving to Phoenix for Christmas and it was
00:01:25 ◼ ► just me because my family flew down later. I spent some extra days with my mom and I did listen to an
00:01:31 ◼ ► audiobook on that trip because I was trying to work that in. But it's not my primary thing.
00:01:38 ◼ ► But music and podcasts, so like when we were going up to Oregon last month, it was, and I drove,
00:01:44 ◼ ► same thing, I drove that one way by myself because I can take days off because I'm my own boss and my
00:01:52 ◼ ► wife is not her own boss and cannot take so many days off. So I do a lot of that sort of like
00:01:57 ◼ ► logistics mixing kind of thing. So she drove back with me, but I drove up there and that was a very
00:02:02 ◼ ► much empty my podcast queue. But after a while, you're like, I cannot listen to these people
00:02:07 ◼ ► anymore. And then I play music for a while and then I go back to the podcast. So I think like
00:02:12 ◼ ► it's part of this complete nutritious breakfast. You got to have a little bit of the music,
00:02:17 ◼ ► a little bit of the podcasts and you kind of mix it up a little bit. I don't think I could do just
00:02:21 ◼ ► either. And that goes back to when I had a long car commute and stuff. I feel like, like I, when
00:02:28 ◼ ► I had a long car commute in the nineties, when I was just starting out, I had to drive across the
00:02:33 ◼ ► San Mateo bridge. It was really, Oh God, I drove so much, spent so much time in my car at that time.
00:02:37 ◼ ► Podcast listeners know what I'm talking about because a lot of you are doing that right now.
00:02:41 ◼ ► And I listened to sports talk for a while and news radio for a while. And I think I would switch
00:02:49 ◼ ► between them. And I came to the point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I literally
00:02:53 ◼ ► bought a CD player from my car. Cause I'm like, I got to listen to something else. And then,
00:02:58 ◼ ► so I can put music on. So it's just a balanced, a balanced diet is what I say balanced diet.
00:03:12 ◼ ► You know that, but that, that did happen some positive industry with COVID, but it didn't
00:03:17 ◼ ► happen so much. So thank you for that. Appreciate it. Yeah. We appreciate it. It's true. Now a song.
00:03:24 ◼ ► Indeed. If you'd like to send in, that's not a question of your own. It's very simple. Just go
00:03:29 ◼ ► to upgrade feedback.com and you can send one in. Jason, I have some, I would say breaking news,
00:03:39 ◼ ► very good breaking Mac pro follow-up that came into us. This is not necessarily like we can't
00:03:48 ◼ ► confirm this story. Sure. Because it just came in across the transom from somebody who is anonymous.
00:03:56 ◼ ► So take it for what it's worth, but it's very interesting information. So this came from one
00:04:10 ◼ ► It pains me to say that Jason's speculation is correct. The quad chip has been canned with no
00:04:17 ◼ ► plans to return. For context, we are actively developing what will presumably be the M5 chip.
00:04:23 ◼ ► And the quad chip was only ever specced for the M1 and removed late in the project. There are no
00:04:30 ◼ ► plans to create a quad chip through at least the M7 generation. My understanding is that the quad
00:04:38 ◼ ► required too much effort for too small of a market. Something interesting that may come in
00:04:44 ◼ ► the M8 in future generations is called multi-die packaging. This allows the CPU and GPU parts of
00:04:51 ◼ ► the chip to be fabricated on different dies and packaged together much like how two max chips make
00:04:57 ◼ ► an ultra. With this design, it is conceivable that we could have three, four, or five or more
00:05:03 ◼ ► GPU dies with one or two CPU for a graphics powerhouse or vice versa for a CPU workstation
00:05:09 ◼ ► that doesn't need as much GPU grunt. However, as far as I know, no such plans exist yet.
00:05:25 ◼ ► things not looking great for the Mac Pro. No. At least not the idea of a Mac Pro that some people
00:05:31 ◼ ► really want, right? Which is this CPU powerhouse. So to kind of break that down in case you need a
00:05:38 ◼ ► little catch up, the idea of we would, there was a talk of and consideration of taking like four
00:05:46 ◼ ► M1 Pros would it have been and putting them together to make an M1 Extreme effectively,
00:05:53 ◼ ► or to take two M1 Maxes and put those together and make like an M1 Extreme chip, which would be housed
00:06:00 ◼ ► inside of the new Mac Pro. That didn't happen. And what our informant is suggesting is this was
00:06:06 ◼ ► only ever planned for the M1. So once the Mac Pro did not come out during the M1, well, that was the
00:06:12 ◼ ► end of that. Yeah. It's interesting because the thing here is that what I said on, I think it
00:06:21 ◼ ► might have even been an Upgrade Plus, but what I always said about this. We continued our conversation
00:06:24 ◼ ► about the Mac Pro even further in Upgrade Plus, but we spoke about this in the main show too.
00:06:29 ◼ ► When you're talking about the relevance of the Mac Pro going forward for anything other than this
00:06:34 ◼ ► extremely limited use case of some expansion, you know, IO cards and otherwise it's performance it
00:06:39 ◼ ► offers is identical to the Mac Studio. What I said was if there's a quad chip at some point,
00:06:47 ◼ ► then it makes sense. If there is not a quad chip at some point, it doesn't really make sense. And
00:06:53 ◼ ► in my real question based on this, if this is true, my question is, is Apple going to keep the
00:06:59 ◼ ► Mac Pro case? I mean, on one level, they can keep the Mac Pro case alive because they've designed
00:07:04 ◼ ► it essentially, and they're going to keep making these new versions of the Ultra chip. They could
00:07:09 ◼ ► just keep dropping them in there. And how much expense is that really? And so maybe they'll keep
00:07:15 ◼ ► it around. But like if you're looking for a Mac Pro that offers appreciably greater performance
00:07:21 ◼ ► than a Mac Studio, you would need to go out. I mean, to this idea, an intriguing idea that
00:07:34 ◼ ► which could potentially happen. But you're still, I mean, at this point, we're talking about like
00:07:38 ◼ ► six, seven, eight years from now, a very long time. And so if this is accurate, what we need
00:07:44 ◼ ► to do is think of the Mac Pro as what we think of it today, like literally today, which is all it is
00:07:51 ◼ ► is a Mac Studio with slots for IO. And that's all it's going to be for a while, according to this
00:07:56 ◼ ► report. - I mean, I've probably assumed this is just it. Like, do I imagine in like seven years,
00:08:11 ◼ ► I wouldn't be willing to put money on that basically. Like, like it, maybe it makes sense
00:08:17 ◼ ► for right now. It maybe makes sense because they promised it, you know, maybe part of the problem
00:08:21 ◼ ► was maybe part of the reason this thing exists is they promised it when they were going to do
00:08:26 ◼ ► the four die chip, but then they stopped that plan, but they promised that the Mac Pro was coming.
00:08:34 ◼ ► And so here it is. And it's just like the ultra chip with some expandability. And that's because
00:08:44 ◼ ► that's what they promised they would deliver something. And they're just going to, I just
00:08:48 ◼ ► reckon they move on over the next few years. And the, maybe the Mac Studio grows in some way to
00:08:55 ◼ ► swallow up more of the market and the market just gets smaller and smaller and smaller that
00:08:59 ◼ ► is it worth it? Like, because the way I would see it, right, this idea of, of, of this multi-die
00:09:05 ◼ ► packaging, right, that our informer's talking about, I don't, if they develop that, they're
00:09:09 ◼ ► not developing that just to make like configurable Mac Pro machines, it's going to go into other
00:09:15 ◼ ► stuff, right? So like, it doesn't make sense to me necessarily that they would keep the current
00:09:21 ◼ ► Mac Pro tower design around for another six, seven, eight years on the hope that they might
00:09:28 ◼ ► be able to create a chip tailored for that one. You know what I mean? Like, I just felt like this
00:09:32 ◼ ► would just go on MacBook Pros, it would go in Mac Studios. I hear what you're saying, but, um, I
00:09:37 ◼ ► don't, I don't know now that they've done an Apple Silicon Mac Pro, I'm not sure that there's much
00:09:42 ◼ ► cost in them keeping it around now and just keeping it like, literally they're like, we know
00:09:46 ◼ ► how many people, assuming it sells at all, right, to this market that they apparently want to keep,
00:09:51 ◼ ► which is this, you know, audio and video studio kind of market that they say, okay, we'll just
00:09:56 ◼ ► keep iterating that every year or two with the new chip, but otherwise making no other changes and
00:10:01 ◼ ► it'll just sit there and there's not, you know, it's of limited cost since they've already got it
00:10:05 ◼ ► out the door. It's got cost, but like they made this one, I could see them making others.
00:10:09 ◼ ► Yeah, yeah, they've done it and I see that makes perfect sense, but if someone asked me to put
00:10:17 ◼ ► money on it, I wouldn't, I wouldn't put money on it. So I'm just not, not sure. Nevertheless,
00:10:22 ◼ ► this is a super interesting piece of information. I'm willing to go along with it because it makes
00:10:30 ◼ ► sense to me with the way that it was explained, that because the rumors did just stop about this
00:10:36 ◼ ► extreme chip, like it just stopped at a certain point and that may have been just because they
00:10:45 ◼ ► Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that the Mac, right, I do have that question about like, if they didn't say,
00:10:50 ◼ ► yes, we're going to do a Mac Pro and also we're living down the legacy of having said, no, no, no,
00:10:55 ◼ ► no, no, we care about you and we designed this new Mac Pro, right? Like all that legacy is probably
00:10:59 ◼ ► part of the reason that that product exists at all, but we don't know, like it's entirely possible
00:11:04 ◼ ► that Apple looks at it and says, look, this is, this is, we're not willing to overhaul our entire
00:11:09 ◼ ► processor architecture in order to do a different kind of Mac Pro, but we'll do this Mac Pro. This
00:11:16 ◼ ► Yeah, we'll find out. I'm not, I don't know. I mean, I think I heard, well, I heard the episode
00:11:22 ◼ ► of ATP where Jon was talking about what we were talking about in response to us, so we can follow
00:11:26 ◼ ► back around to that again. And I think maybe you just may have mentioned it, he may have mentioned
00:11:30 ◼ ► to it too, the idea of like the Mac round table and they got everybody together and spoke about the
00:11:35 ◼ ► future of the Mac. And you'll maybe need to remind me, but I don't remember that they spoke about the
00:11:40 ◼ ► Mac Pro then, just that there was an iMac Pro. Did they talk about the Mac Pro then too?
00:11:45 ◼ ► No, the way, the way it worked is they were, they were doing the iMac Pro as the replacement for the
00:11:49 ◼ ► Mac Pro, and then they changed direction. Ah, there it is. And the round table, they said,
00:11:53 ◼ ► we will do a new Mac Pro. We got the Mac Pro wrong. We are going to make a modular system.
00:11:58 ◼ ► At one point they were like, the future of the Mac Pro is a closed system. It's an iMac Pro,
00:12:04 ◼ ► which is essentially what the Mac studio is. Right? Like essentially that's the same strategy
00:12:08 ◼ ► if they were to drop the Mac Pro. And so I think part of them is like, you know, let's keep it
00:12:13 ◼ ► alive. We designed this thing, the enclosure, the one time. So we've got the enclosure. They've now
00:12:18 ◼ ► built an Apple Silicon version of it that is, they'll watch, I'm sure. And, and depending on
00:12:23 ◼ ► the pain point, they might kill it entirely. But I would, I would probably make the counter argument,
00:12:28 ◼ ► which is if there's an M2 Mac Pro, there will probably be M3 or at least M4 Mac Pro as well.
00:12:40 ◼ ► it could have very impressive performance depending on the amount of GPU cores that they
00:12:44 ◼ ► put in the future chips, but it's not going to be that quad thing that would really have the
00:12:55 ◼ ► commitment they can make without, you know, doing a larger commitment, like doing a quad chip or
00:13:00 ◼ ► changing their entire architecture. So maybe that's what the future of the Mac Pro is, is,
00:13:04 ◼ ► is what this is. But if this report is right, I think that there are only two futures for the Mac
00:13:09 ◼ ► Pro in the near term, which is more of this or gone. Yeah, I think the thing that threw me is
00:13:15 ◼ ► there was so much in that round table. Cause it was also when we found out about the iMac Pro for
00:13:19 ◼ ► the first time, right? Like this is where we'd first heard about it. If I'm remembering correctly,
00:13:24 ◼ ► they were talking about like a more powerful iMac as well as a modular Mac Pro, but the iMac Pro was
00:13:29 ◼ ► around the corner cause it was just about to get rid of the Mac Pro, but they ended up changing
00:13:35 ◼ ► course. But yeah, nevertheless, this, I just think this is more example of changing courses in Apple
00:13:41 ◼ ► and how it affects the Mac Pro, which I think is just kind of how it always will because it is the
00:13:46 ◼ ► thin end of the wedge. It's an edge case, right? It's an edge case. And so when Apple, when Apple
00:13:51 ◼ ► makes any sort of like larger company-wide or even platform-wide decision, the shape of the
00:13:57 ◼ ► thing gets deformed a little bit, right? Or reformed into something new. And the, uh, if
00:14:03 ◼ ► you're on the edge, right, you could discover that the, uh, your edge has gone, right? And then you're
00:14:09 ◼ ► not even in the bubble anymore and you have to move or lost. Yep. And I think nothing shows that
00:14:16 ◼ ► more than the Mac Pro we have right now, because it was only created because of uproar, right?
00:14:23 ◼ ► And so like it was this machine created to kind of hearken back to the glory days, quote unquote,
00:14:30 ◼ ► with the Mac Pro, right? Like the G5, right? Like that kind of era, be like the big silver tower,
00:14:36 ◼ ► right? Looking as it does. And so we ended up with that, but it was just before Apple Silicon,
00:14:42 ◼ ► where clearly in an Apple Silicon world, that's not the design they want either, right? Like,
00:14:48 ◼ ► because it doesn't need to be as big as it is now. It only really needed to be that size for when
00:14:55 ◼ ► they originally did it for the few years that they did it. And then halfway through its life cycle,
00:15:00 ◼ ► it now has a completely different architecture inside and all of the modularity, the vast
00:15:04 ◼ ► majority of the modularity has now been taken away from it. And so like this, I think this current
00:15:09 ◼ ► Mac Pro is like a perfect example of what it's like to be that edge case product where like,
00:15:16 ◼ ► now it's kind of not fit for purpose because its original purpose was for a very specific thing,
00:15:22 ◼ ► which now doesn't exist anymore, but we still have this case. - No, that's exactly it. There's in our
00:15:27 ◼ ► Discord, David's shop is like, "Oh, that was just a marketing stunt. It doesn't mean anything about
00:15:31 ◼ ► it today." But it's like, but you gotta understand the path that it led to, which is it was part of a
00:15:36 ◼ ► re, it's not that they can't break a promise, but they did make a promise, so they're doubling back
00:15:41 ◼ ► on it as hard, but also it set them on a path where they designed that case and they made a lot,
00:15:46 ◼ ► right? Like, and now that then they've got the case, so they're like, "Well, we've got the case,
00:15:49 ◼ ► so we could do this." And like, it does lead to where we are now in a way, but here we are,
00:15:57 ◼ ► right? That's the truth of it is like, would Apple make this decision today of like, "Oh,
00:16:01 ◼ ► you know what we should do is we should build a giant case, a giant tower case with slots,
00:16:06 ◼ ► but not those kinds of slots. Those don't work, but these other kinds of slots that very few
00:16:11 ◼ ► people use, but some people use." No, you would never do that, but we are here where they already
00:16:18 ◼ ► built that, right? And that was the result of the thing that generated that round table, and so
00:16:23 ◼ ► that's why we're here. It's really interesting, but yeah, you are right. It's a little like,
00:16:28 ◼ ► it's like the shoreline moved or a river changed course and the Mac Pro ended up kind of beached,
00:16:34 ◼ ► and your choices there are that you either find the water again, I'm just full of metaphors today,
00:16:40 ◼ ► or you, or you're dead on the side of the road. I don't know. It's, I mean, this is the thing,
00:16:48 ◼ ► is that, is that as the profile of the platform changes, the products change and the edge case
00:16:53 ◼ ► products are the ones that are most likely to die. I mean, the iMac Pro also, same story, right? Like
00:16:59 ◼ ► the iMac Pro was a new edge case, and then they went back to the old edge case and it died.
00:17:03 ◼ ► It wasn't needed, right? The iMac Pro just wasn't needed after they ended up reassessing the course
00:17:11 ◼ ► again. And so, honestly, kind of like this current Mac Pro feels like the iMac Pro, right? Where it's
00:17:18 ◼ ► like the iMac Pro was born out of a decision, but then they went back on it and then they made the
00:17:23 ◼ ► Mac Pro, but now they've kind of gone back on that because realistically for even more people,
00:17:30 ◼ ► it's just not a machine that's needed anymore because everything else is so powerful. Exactly.
00:17:34 ◼ ► Couple of other little bits of follow up before we move on. We spoke about this a number of weeks
00:17:41 ◼ ► ago, but it's been made official. Lionel Messi has officially joined the Inter Miami MLS team
00:17:46 ◼ ► on a three year deal. His first game will be broadcast on Apple TV+ with the MLS pass thing
00:17:54 ◼ ► on Friday, July 21st. So that's this Friday. Quote, "Apple, an MLS production, have committed to
00:18:01 ◼ ► showing Messi's games with premium quality broadcasts. Coverage of his games will feature
00:18:08 ◼ ► 18 camera angles, Steadicam, Super Slow Mo, drone shots and more to enhance the experience
00:18:16 ◼ ► for viewers." That comes from 9to5Mac. I love that idea of like they have all this opportunity,
00:18:21 ◼ ► but for Messi, they're going to throw everything at it from a quality perspective. Those are going
00:18:39 ◼ ► I really wonder what it's going to look like. Like what the quality of play will end up looking like.
00:18:48 ◼ ► Well, yeah, that's right. I'm curious about what the viewership will be. Will there be a broader
00:18:53 ◼ ► international audience for these matches because it's Messi and people want to see Messi? I'll tell
00:18:58 ◼ ► you this, I would imagine that in Argentina, they're going to do a lot of Apple TV+. But yeah,
00:19:05 ◼ ► we'll see. I feel like at least for these first couple of games, it would be a bit higher. Like
00:19:13 ◼ ► I feel like there might be some lucky losers. For sure. No, I think Messi will bring an audience,
00:19:18 ◼ ► I think the numbers will be higher than ever on an ongoing basis too. But yeah, there'll be a bump
00:19:24 ◼ ► at the beginning. I'm actually kind of surprised that they're not doing a free game. Right? That
00:19:30 ◼ ► like one of these isn't the free game, like his first one. I have no doubt that there will be
00:19:37 ◼ ► free Messi games because I know they do put some games for free. It just surprised me that they
00:19:43 ◼ ► didn't just go all in and make this like a taster match. Follow up for you specifically, Jason Stone,
00:19:51 ◼ ► maybe any other audience that care. Apple's Q3 earnings will be broadcast on August 3rd.
00:20:05 ◼ ► Make the worst transcript in history? I don't. So I'm trying to figure out if I can change my plane
00:20:12 ◼ ► or what. Can you imagine how many things would have to go wrong before you would ask me to do that?
00:20:26 ◼ ► I think your premise is, it has one problem, which is it's actually very easy for me to just say,
00:20:34 ◼ ► sorry everybody, no transcript this time. I fall below that. I fall below it not happening.
00:20:42 ◼ ► That's what I'm saying. Something has to go wrong. Such a mistake that I decide somehow to do it
00:20:52 ◼ ► And you'll be happy about this one. GM dealers are reportedly very unhappy about the idea of GM
00:20:57 ◼ ► dropping CarPlay in favor of their own system, which we spoke about a month or so ago. There's
00:21:07 ◼ ► Which is a beautiful quote. There's a Detroit Free Press story, which I can't read because it's
00:21:16 ◼ ► paywalled for subscribers only, but Chance Miller of 9to5Mac hacked the Detroit Free Press or
00:21:25 ◼ ► Maybe just paid. You know, what I've discovered, a little side note, what I've discovered,
00:21:29 ◼ ► because I subscribed to a really nice newsletter called the California Sun for people who are in
00:21:33 ◼ ► California. It's really great. It's by a guy who used to do the New York Times California letter.
00:21:38 ◼ ► And it's a substack basically. It's not substack, but it's a subscription newsletter that summarizes
00:21:44 ◼ ► sort of the news of the day from California with a lot of links. And what I've discovered is
00:21:48 ◼ ► lots of newspapers have syndication deals. So he does a lot of links that are like to MSN.com
00:21:56 ◼ ► or Yahoo or AOL.com, believe it or not, to these places that like republish their articles,
00:22:02 ◼ ► not behind a paywall. So that's a approach. First off, if you're in California, check out the
00:22:09 ◼ ► California Sun. I think it's Californiasun.co. And also that's a thing you could always try and I'm
00:22:14 ◼ ► sure is part of Chance's wheelhouse too, which is you might not be able to get that Detroit Free
00:22:20 ◼ ► Press story from the Detroit Free Press, but what if it's also on MSN or something? And then you can
00:22:26 ◼ ► find it there. Anyway, "Car plays not broken. Why fix it?" is the great quote. The risk of failure
00:22:32 ◼ ► is very high. I don't even know the name of this new system, much less what benefits our customers
00:22:37 ◼ ► can expect. Nobody has had any communication from GM. The new system just can't work. It has to be
00:22:44 ◼ ► the best in the market. It's got to be better than car play. Good luck. Good luck. Yeah, because it
00:22:52 ◼ ► falls down at the first hurdle, which is how you connect your phone to it. Like that's the first
00:22:56 ◼ ► thing. And there isn't really a way to do it. So it's just like disaster. Somebody wrote in a while
00:23:03 ◼ ► ago when we were talking about Apple News, like I don't know if this is the thing with the Detroit
00:23:06 ◼ ► Free Press, but as a thing, a lot of publications are in Apple News. If you have Apple News, it can
00:23:14 ◼ ► be a way to get around the paywall for the one article that you want to read. Have a search for
00:23:19 ◼ ► it in Apple News. I also wanted to do a quick piece of follow out, just because I'm very impressed
00:23:26 ◼ ► by this. Underscore David Smith is doing just a superb job right now sharing what he is working
00:23:31 ◼ ► on for Widgetsmith in Vision OS. He's been making some blog posts about this in his design note
00:23:38 ◼ ► series, also sharing things on Mastodon too. I just want to say if you are a developer working
00:23:44 ◼ ► on Vision OS and you're not following what Underscore is doing right now, I think you should,
00:23:48 ◼ ► because he's being very open about the processes that he's taking. And I'm also learning some
00:23:54 ◼ ► interesting stuff myself about what this system is capable of and what it isn't. There are a lot of
00:24:01 ◼ ► people sharing these things right now, but Underscore is not only a great communicator,
00:24:06 ◼ ► but he is also building one of the most popular apps that exist, like a version of that for this.
00:24:14 ◼ ► I think it makes him very specifically targeted and focused. I think it's really interesting to
00:24:22 ◼ ► see what he's up to. The weather app concept that he put together is beautiful too. He's getting me
00:24:28 ◼ ► very excited, even more excited for using Vision OS apps. And I'm really curious about this thing
00:24:37 ◼ ► that you put in our show notes, which said, "Do you want to just do it? I don't want to spoil it.
00:24:42 ◼ ► You just want to tell people what it is." Sure. So here, very exciting thing. It's a first for the
00:24:48 ◼ ► Upgrade podcast. I hope that it goes well. We just do a lot of these going forward. I'm sure it's
00:24:53 ◼ ► going to be a regular recurring segment. It's coming into college football season pretty soon.
00:25:03 ◼ ► will be hosting the Auburn Tigers, Tim Cook's favorite football team, Auburn, coming to Berkeley
00:25:12 ◼ ► to Memorial Stadium, historic Memorial Stadium, for an interconference battle between the SEC
00:25:19 ◼ ► and the Pac-12, which is going to be 10 soon. Anyway, we don't talk about that. Two illustrious
00:25:25 ◼ ► universities, one more illustrious than the other. Two illustrious football teams, one vastly more
00:25:29 ◼ ► illustrious than the other. Playing a game in the evening in California on probably a warm late
00:25:36 ◼ ► summer Saturday night in Berkeley. Watch the sun go down, literally from the stadium, you can watch
00:25:41 ◼ ► the sun go down behind the Golden Gate Bridge across the bay and watch a college football game.
00:25:47 ◼ ► Now, I am a season ticket holder of Cal football and have been for many years, and before I had
00:25:53 ◼ ► those tickets, my dad had those tickets, so they've been in the family since the 60s, believe it or not.
00:25:58 ◼ ► It is a family tradition. I have four tickets. Currently, those tickets are being used by myself,
00:26:04 ◼ ► my wife, and my good friend Philip Michaels, who chips in for a ticket because he, I got, yes, I took,
00:26:10 ◼ ► he's such a good friend that I got him to be a fan of a bad football team. Wow, what a buddy.
00:26:14 ◼ ► Anyway, what I'm saying is we always have an extra ticket, and so sometimes Phil won't come and we'll
00:26:20 ◼ ► bring a couple friends of ours, or we'll just invite one person, or Phil will bring a friend, and we just
00:26:24 ◼ ► work it out. But I would like to now officially say to Tim Cook, I have an extra ticket for September 9th
00:26:35 ◼ ► for Auburn against Cal. Did you know that Auburn is coming to the Bay Area, your home, your beloved
00:26:40 ◼ ► football team? They are. And I got you covered. I've got a ticket. And now, Tim, I know you've got some
00:26:47 ◼ ► questions about this. One of your questions is going to be, is this in like a luxurious box where
00:26:51 ◼ ► I'm separated from the masses? And the answer is no. Unfortunately, it's not. Those are available,
00:26:57 ◼ ► I'm sure, and you could, you could go down that route if you really want to, if you really want to
00:27:00 ◼ ► be bothered. Is it in the super central 50-yard line donor section where you have to like pay tens
00:27:08 ◼ ► of thousands of dollars for the right to pay thousands of dollars for a seat, and you have your
00:27:12 ◼ ► own concession area and all of that? Sadly, no. We used to sit over there before they redid the
00:27:18 ◼ ► stadium and made those the super expensive seats, but these seats aren't those. Is it a bad ticket?
00:27:25 ◼ ► Do I sit in a bad location? I don't think so. It's actually very nice. We're kind of at the
00:27:30 ◼ ► five-yard line on the north end, which is the good place to be. We're on the alumni side, so you're
00:27:37 ◼ ► not gonna have to deal well. It's a night game, so you won't have to be in the sun at all because the
00:27:41 ◼ ► sun will already be going down at that point. But anyway, it's a beautiful place to sit. We're about
00:27:44 ◼ ► 20 rows back. A great view of the north end zone when the excitement is going on there.
00:27:49 ◼ ► And we got the ticket. And Tim, now I know there's one other thing you're asking me, which is,
00:27:55 ◼ ► "Jason, what does it cost?" And the answer is, the ticket is free. You would be my guest. You can
00:28:01 ◼ ► come sit with us, with me and Lauren and Phil, and we'll watch a game. It's Pac-12 After Dark.
00:28:05 ◼ ► It'll be on, I think, ESPN probably, and we'll have a good time. And you know what? If you feel
00:28:11 ◼ ► bad about not being able to compensate me for the cost of the ticket, that's fine. Buy me a hot dog
00:28:15 ◼ ► or something at the game. It's fine. We'll work it out. If you really want to do that, buy me a
00:28:19 ◼ ► Coke and a hot dog and we'll call it even. But it's not really necessary. It's all fine. So anyway,
00:28:24 ◼ ► open invitation, Tim. Get in touch. Cal Auburn, looking forward to it. It's bench seating, but
00:28:30 ◼ ► it's generous enough that we can all squeeze in there and watch your Auburn Tigers probably
00:28:37 ◼ ► dismantle my Cal Bears. And it'll be a lot of fun. I'll teach you some of the Cal cheers. You can
00:28:41 ◼ ► teach me some of the Auburn cheers. So anyway, open invitation, Tim. Gonna be a beautiful night.
00:28:46 ◼ ► I'm looking forward to seeing you there. - If Tim says yes, but only if you wear a red shirt,
00:28:50 ◼ ► would you do it? - It's a red? I don't think red is an Auburn color. - No, but isn't the whole thing
00:28:54 ◼ ► about take off the red shirt? - Yeah. Oh no, you're right. I mean, why would he do that? That would be
00:29:00 ◼ ► cruel. - Yeah, but it's like a challenge, you know? Like, I'll do it, but only if this, you know?
00:29:06 ◼ ► - I'll wear an orange shirt. I won't wear a red shirt, but orange for the Auburn Tigers. I would
00:29:11 ◼ ► do that, but I would prefer to wear navy. Navy, because navy is in the colors of both teams. Anyway,
00:29:17 ◼ ► Tim, call me. Or, you know, have your people call me. It's fine. - Yeah, of course. That's also okay.
00:29:21 ◼ ► We'll accept people. - Also, there's an electronic. Now, you're also saying to yourself, Tim,
00:29:25 ◼ ► but I don't, you know, Jason lives in the North Bay. I live in the South Bay. I don't really want
00:29:29 ◼ ► to like schlep around and we're going to mail a ticket in the mail. Tim, I got great news for you.
00:29:34 ◼ ► Computers are the future. - You may have heard of them. - And perhaps you've heard of them, and there is a
00:29:42 ◼ ► newfangled digital ticket system involving the internet that lets me check a box on one of my
00:29:47 ◼ ► tickets and transfer it to a friend. So, if you give me your email address or your phone number,
00:29:52 ◼ ► then you can receive that ticket and place it in your Apple wallet. Put it on your watch.
00:29:56 ◼ ► That'll work. And then we can meet at the seats. I don't have to give you the ticket in
00:30:01 ◼ ► advance. We don't have to meet at the bear statue outside the stadium. We can actually just meet in
00:30:05 ◼ ► the seats because you'll have my ticket. So, anyway, have your people call my people, and by which
00:30:10 ◼ ► my people, I mean me. - This episode is brought to you by Notion. Project management tools are
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00:32:29 ◼ ► So we are in the summer of fun. Summer of fun! And in honor of World Emoji Day that happened
00:32:37 ◼ ► yesterday, as you're listening to this, it's I guess World Emoji Week now, I thought that we
00:32:43 ◼ ► could look at our frequently used emoji as displayed in the keyboard inside of iOS. Can we
00:32:52 ◼ ► call this a, can we name this segment? Can we call it something? We can call it whatever you want.
00:32:55 ◼ ► All right, well, you know, our friend Jeremy Burge is the founder of Emojipedia, although he's no
00:33:02 ◼ ► longer involved. So why don't we call him the Jeremy's? I don't like that. Oh, that one doesn't work for me,
00:33:08 ◼ ► but we can workshop it. All right. We can call it the Worldy's. How about the Burgees? The Burgees,
00:33:16 ◼ ► there you go. The Burgees. I have links in the show notes to my and your most frequently used
00:33:24 ◼ ► emoji. Thought we could take a look at them, maybe make some comments about them. Do you want to take
00:33:27 ◼ ► a look at mine? Tell me what you think. If you've got any questions for me about some of the emoji
00:33:31 ◼ ► that I use as represented by the iOS keyboard. Sure, sure. I have some problems with this,
00:33:39 ◼ ► but I'll deal with mine. If you feel that this is a decent representative sample, we'll go with it.
00:33:45 ◼ ► I would say yeah. Okay. It's enough anyway. Okay. What do you think of mine? Oh, I thought you were
00:33:53 ◼ ► going to take me through it. I like it. There are some that surprise me. I am surprised by the
00:34:00 ◼ ► steaming pie. Yes. And actually, other than that, I think this is a pretty good list. There's the
00:34:11 ◼ ► kebabs. I guess I'm a little surprised by that, but otherwise I think this is a, I understand
00:34:16 ◼ ► these emotions. I understand why you would, I think the fact that you have the microphone emoji
00:34:21 ◼ ► is the most on brand of all. The kebab thing that I think you're seeing, this is one of those like,
00:34:28 ◼ ► it's like it's a cultural emoji from back in the original days of emoji. This is actually
00:34:34 ◼ ► called Dango, which is a Japanese treat of sticky rice balls. And the reason that I have this is we
00:34:48 ◼ ► are currently decorating our home. And it just so happens that in our, we're doing like a few
00:34:54 ◼ ► different colors in our main area because like our downstairs area is like a very large open plan
00:34:59 ◼ ► area, but it's split into some like zones and we are actually using pink, cream and green. And so
00:35:05 ◼ ► our downstairs area of the house is the Dango area now, basically. That's why that is there
00:35:12 ◼ ► because me and Adina have been making that reference to each other. There are some just
00:35:17 ◼ ► emojis that I love in here. So obviously top right is the, it's called heart decoration,
00:35:21 ◼ ► the white heart and the purple box. That is the heart that I have chosen to use because nobody
00:35:25 ◼ ► really uses it. So I use it. We have the hot face emoji, which I just think is fantastic in tons of
00:35:31 ◼ ► different use cases. It's one of the greats. The salute emoji, which I have pledged my allegiance
00:35:44 ◼ ► That's the Homer retreating back into the hedge emoji. Right. It's like, I'm not even here right
00:35:51 ◼ ► now. Another like just excellent, excellent emoji. Yeah. So I have, I have a lot of emojis that I
00:35:58 ◼ ► enjoy here. The, I think this is a pretty good representation. I use eyes a lot. I use the love
00:36:02 ◼ ► heart face one a lot. I use the scholar lot. I think this is a pretty good representation of
00:36:07 ◼ ► the emoji that I tend to use the most. If you have any, you want to particularly praise as a great
00:36:14 ◼ ► emoji. Under, under appreciated, maybe. I don't know. Oh, another appreciated one. I mean, you,
00:36:20 ◼ ► you use, so I'll, I'll point out, you've got the, the smiling face with surrounded by hearts,
00:36:24 ◼ ► which I think of as a, an early mic embracing thing that is actually really nice, which is the,
00:36:29 ◼ ► I am happy because I feel loved basically emoji. And I think that's a really good expression to
00:36:35 ◼ ► have in the emoji set. And I think you've always used that really well of like, this is a, this is
00:36:40 ◼ ► me feeling good about that. I do. I use that a lot and I use raised hands a lot. That is like my,
00:36:45 ◼ ► that's my universal thank you. I think it's better than the thumbs up. I don't really like thumbs up.
00:36:50 ◼ ► It's like a thank you. I think raised hands is like a really good one. It's like, Oh, you're
00:36:54 ◼ ► so incredible. That's kind of how I imagine it whenever I, whenever I use it. Why the pie,
00:36:58 ◼ ► why the pie? Is that from when I was sending you all those pictures from New Zealand about,
00:37:02 ◼ ► about meat pies and why America doesn't have meat pies? This is, this is kind of like part of a pet
00:37:08 ◼ ► name thing. So I'm not going to give all of the information there. All right. All right. You just
00:37:14 ◼ ► love hot pie from chicken pot pie, as I call my hot pie. There's a character named hot pie on game
00:37:20 ◼ ► of thrones. Hot pie. I don't watch game of thrones. So I wouldn't well, hot pie. Just wait. When you
00:37:24 ◼ ► ever do, uh, you'll see hot pie and you'd be like, I'm just not, I'm fine with it. You know,
00:37:29 ◼ ► cause like for me, I feel like all the big things have been spoiled just because of the internet.
00:37:33 ◼ ► And so it's just like, I'm not interested. You didn't know about hot pie. I do know why I didn't,
00:37:41 ◼ ► I don't know. Hot pie is kind of important. All right. Let me take a look at your emoji here.
00:37:47 ◼ ► All right. So there was some, there's some already. So here's the, here's the thing. First off,
00:37:51 ◼ ► the place I, I do the place I send emoji the most is Slack on my Mac. And the second place is Slack
00:38:07 ◼ ► on my iPhone and my iPad are so bizarre because it's full of emoji. I don't recall ever sending.
00:38:14 ◼ ► And I think it's because I don't send enough of them often enough. Like the one that I sent you
00:38:20 ◼ ► has the New Zealand flag and a Kiwi and a, and a, and an airplane and a, and a suitcase because
00:38:27 ◼ ► those are emoji I sent in February when I was in New Zealand. And they're still on the frequently.
00:38:33 ◼ ► I mean, you've been talking about Kiwis a lot recently still. So, you know, like for as much,
00:39:05 ◼ ► I like the blue heart. I see other people using the blue heart and I'm like, yeah, I see you.
00:39:21 ◼ ► It is an adequate depiction of mental state. I do that a lot of like, I don't know why this
00:39:27 ◼ ► happened. I do the wink a lot. I enjoy the shush emoji because you often are ironically,
00:39:47 ◼ ► Pretty versatile too. Right. Like sometimes we'll get, we'll get a conspiracy email and I will use
00:39:54 ◼ ► the detective emoji. I'm like, Oh, they've got it figured out now. One that I'm intrigued by is
00:39:59 ◼ ► actually the one below the detective emoji, which is the big smiling face of the teeth and the tiny
00:40:04 ◼ ► round eyes. Yes. That one is weird looking to me, that emoji. I don't like that emoji very much.
00:40:19 ◼ ► my mom does not use the standard smiley emojis at all. She uses the cat set. Oh, the worst set.
00:40:25 ◼ ► It's not my favorite, but she is all of them are cat emojis. I don't like the smiley cat and the
00:40:33 ◼ ► hard-eyed cat. She uses all those. I don't use those, but yeah, no cat set is bad. Like, uh,
00:40:37 ◼ ► I don't like that one. I honestly, this is one of those things like, why is it there? Like,
00:40:48 ◼ ► I mean, the wink emoji is probably the one I use the most because I try to use that to,
00:40:59 ◼ ► that's what's so great about emoji in general, right? It's like how they can help you communicate
00:41:08 ◼ ► you otherwise might not be able to do. Exactly. Which is why I use the wink emoji a lot.
00:41:12 ◼ ► Upside down smiling face emoji. I use that, that, that, uh, that came from, uh, I noticed, uh, our
00:41:20 ◼ ► friend Joe Rosen steel using that a lot. And I just, I really love it because it's the right.
00:41:30 ◼ ► Lauren and I were texting and there was like, how do you even express this? And I just sent
00:41:34 ◼ ► back the upside down. She's like, yeah, that's it. Which is like, oh brother. Right. It's a,
00:41:43 ◼ ► it's another very versatile one. I think like it has, it has a lot of potential uses, which
00:41:51 ◼ ► I think those are the best emoji really when you can kind of take them and turn them into something.
00:41:56 ◼ ► It's like, that's simply for salute. I feel like salute is very versatile. I do have some questions
00:42:00 ◼ ► about a couple of emoji. All right, sure. Go ahead. Saxophone. I have no memory of sending the
00:42:08 ◼ ► saxophone emoji to anyone at any point. I'm sure if I did, it was in the context of nonstop bangers
00:42:13 ◼ ► involving sax solos, probably Baker street. Yep. One of the, right. It's nonstop bangers.
00:42:20 ◼ ► Just one of the old time. Or, or other, or it was with Jamie and it's some other yacht rock related
00:42:26 ◼ ► sax solo. But again, like the New Zealand stuff, I probably sent it once like three months ago and
00:42:38 ◼ ► thumbs up. I use that a lot. I use the eyes a lot. In fact, when I first log into discord,
00:42:42 ◼ ► before we're about to stream live, I put the eyes in the discord as like, we're waking up and paying
00:42:47 ◼ ► attention. We're about to be live. And the curling stone is one that I get a lot of use out of because
00:42:52 ◼ ► I actually do that. And there's an emoji for it, which is pretty awesome. Right? Like the sport,
00:42:58 ◼ ► the sport that I, you can't, you can't miss it. You know what it is, the curling stone. It's right
00:43:02 ◼ ► there. It's a really, really good emoji. But I also want to know the poop emoji. Do you use the poop?
00:43:08 ◼ ► I hate the poop emoji. I hate that it exists. I can tell you why, because it's in the same row
00:43:13 ◼ ► as the New Zealand flag and the Kiwi. We were having drinks at a restaurant in Christchurch
00:43:22 ◼ ► and the water bottle that they brought us, so they brought a, basically an old gin bottle,
00:43:35 ◼ ► And it was silent pool gin, but somebody had rubbed the letters off of it. So it said silent poo.
00:43:42 ◼ ► And I took a picture of it. And then I, I captioned it with the poop emoji because it was the
00:43:49 ◼ ► silent poo. Cause I thought it was good wholesome fun. Good wholesome fun. The poop emoji in that
00:43:56 ◼ ► context, but I don't use the poop emoji either. There's a salute emoji in there. I'm starting to
00:44:00 ◼ ► use the salute emoji a little bit more because I have learned about its uses from you and Steven
00:44:05 ◼ ► and Federico. And now I'm, I can see the context of the salute emoji. But you also provided another
00:44:14 ◼ ► image. Slack. Yes. It's actually, and I think Slack does it that it's frequently used in the Slack,
00:44:21 ◼ ► not by you. Cause I don't use the troll emoji in the relay Slack, but Casey List does. And so
00:44:28 ◼ ► the troll emoji is in there. However, what I will say is, I want to point out, so I use emoji in
00:44:34 ◼ ► Slack a lot and that's my primary use. And also I'm one of the people in the world, other than
00:44:39 ◼ ► Jeremy Burge, who has commissioned emoji art. So two of my favorite emoji that I use in Slack
00:44:46 ◼ ► are the Skeletor emoji, which there's a cartoon Skeletor emoji. And now there's an Apple style
00:44:54 ◼ ► photo realistic Skeletor emoji. I'd say the Skeletor emoji is often used like the upside
00:44:59 ◼ ► down smiling face emoji by me. And then there's the reference acknowledged emoji, which used to
00:45:06 ◼ ► be a picture of Tony Sindelar, our friend who says reference acknowledged and has popularized
00:45:23 ◼ ► So those I also use a lot. All three of those emoji are in the relay FM members discord too.
00:45:29 ◼ ► They are. And people use them. I hate the iOS Skeletor one. It is very upsetting to me.
00:45:44 ◼ ► That is fantastic. That is a great one. But the one that actually looks like a real skull.
00:45:50 ◼ ► It's basically the skull emoji except yellow and in the purple hood to be extra. It's Skeletor.
00:45:59 ◼ ► Well, yeah, I mean, it's Skeletor. I love it though, because it's I believe those were done
00:46:04 ◼ ► by the artist. It was actually referred to me by Jeremy who's done art for Emojipedia. And I was
00:46:20 ◼ ► making the finger reference acknowledged. And it's great. There are a few others in here,
00:46:25 ◼ ► obviously in Slack, especially because they shorten it to tada. The party popper emoji is
00:46:30 ◼ ► very successful, which is great. Somebody celebrating something, you throw that in there
00:46:33 ◼ ► as an emoji reaction. It's going to be great. I do use the skull emoji sometimes. It really just
00:46:38 ◼ ► sort of means either I'm dead or this will kill me. One of those. I use the scream emoji a lot in
00:46:46 ◼ ► both cases. That's the, whether it's seriously, oh my goodness, or it's an actual, like,
00:46:52 ◼ ► this is what makes me want to scream. I throw that in there a lot too. Those are good. And I want to
00:46:57 ◼ ► point out that I have the lion emoji in here. I mostly, there are two uses of the lion emoji
00:47:03 ◼ ► recently. One of them is that we just did a total party kill that won't come out as is our tradition
00:47:09 ◼ ► for several years. But we just played an adventure where I turned into a lion and menaced a bunch of
00:47:15 ◼ ► casino goers, which is great. So while we were doing that adventure, there was a lot of lion
00:47:21 ◼ ► emojis going around. And the other thing is that at certain times, Stephen Hackett looks like a lion
00:47:27 ◼ ► - When he's in a certain hair configuration, he's very lion-y and he looks just like that emoji.
00:47:41 ◼ ► and I also use it in very specific contexts to suggest frustration or somebody being monstrous,
00:47:56 ◼ ► depending on what set you're in. It is this, it's like a devil. It's like a red-faced monster.
00:48:19 ◼ ► in a sort of evil menacing way, but also fun. I love that emoji so much. And when the moment
00:48:24 ◼ ► comes to use, ogre, I am there, right? Like I know the instant somebody says something, I'm like,
00:48:40 ◼ ► some here that I really like, and I've got to say the Microsoft Teams one is excellent. It's
00:48:45 ◼ ► like animated on the Emojipedia website, and it is actually ha ha ha-ing. It's great. I love the new
00:48:52 ◼ ► Microsoft style of this like cartoony, like I really like the new emoji that Microsoft has been
00:49:03 ◼ ► - I do not appreciate the whackification, the goofinesses of the Microsoft Teams emoji of the
00:49:11 ◼ ► ogre. The ogre is meant to be a little more menacing, I think. A little more like he's,
00:49:18 ◼ ► like, "Am I in on the joke with the ogre or is he going to eat me?" And that's what the Apple
00:49:30 ◼ ► - But anyway, that's a favorite of mine that does not get used very much. I enjoy the ogre.
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00:51:52 ◼ ► The public B-Tails. You've had a ton of coverage on 6 Colors. I think you add an article for every
00:52:03 ◼ ► Yeah, we wrote a lot of, Dan and I wrote a lot of stories there too. I appreciate you mentioning it
00:52:08 ◼ ► on Connected last week, which I was listening to on my travels, that you didn't just say
00:52:13 ◼ ► Mac stories, you said it on 6 Colors too. Oh, that's very nice. We did, we wrote a lot of things
00:52:18 ◼ ► about betas. We did, yeah, because the public betas are out as of last week. The general public
00:52:41 ◼ ► Was this a year where it was easy to write about them? Were you having to struggle to find things
00:52:46 ◼ ► to write about? Oh no, no. In fact, I mean, just very much the idea that you write, because the
00:52:55 ◼ ► way this works is Apple says they're coming out in July, but you don't know when. And you've got some
00:52:59 ◼ ► idea that like they usually do it this particular week, but you don't actually know. And you spend
00:53:04 ◼ ► time recovering from WWDC and then you are like, I guess I should install the betas on and live with
00:53:09 ◼ ► them and you start to live with them. And then you do that for a while and you say, it's now July and
00:53:14 ◼ ► they're coming soon. I better start writing. And the beauty of it being the public beta cycle is
00:53:19 ◼ ► you can write about the marquee features and then have a section at the end of your story that's
00:53:23 ◼ ► like, and there's a bunch of other stuff too. Talk to you later and not cover it or not cover it in
00:53:29 ◼ ► as much detail. So I got to all the features that I felt I had time to get to and energy to get to
00:53:36 ◼ ► in depth. And then the rest of them, I mentioned a lot of them in passing with maybe a few brief
00:53:42 ◼ ► thoughts. And then I'm, 'cause I'm saving it. I've got time for the, over the summer to write
00:53:48 ◼ ► a more full accounting of it. 'Cause I will write a full review of everything in the fall when these
00:53:54 ◼ ► things ship. So I, but I did not feel like I was scraping, like iPadOS, honestly. iPadOS, I
00:54:03 ◼ ► literally wrote the morning when we were waiting for the public beta to drop. I just, we were ready
00:54:09 ◼ ► to go and I was sitting at my desk and I thought, oh well, I guess I should write the iPadOS thing
00:54:13 ◼ ► right now. So that story didn't take me very long to write at all. And there's not a lot more than
00:54:18 ◼ ► what's in that story, but that's okay. Like that one, so that one was fairly easy 'cause there's
00:54:24 ◼ ► not a lot in there. - Well, the iPadOS one is always complicated anyway, right? And it's why,
00:54:29 ◼ ► like, you know, with Federico's huge review, usually iPadOS is just a chapter of the iOS
00:54:34 ◼ ► review because everything that comes to iOS by and large comes to iPadOS. So you, like, there's a lot
00:54:39 ◼ ► of features already in there and then it's just about like, what is different? And so like really,
00:54:44 ◼ ► by and large, I think most years iPadOS is probably one of the easier ones to write about.
00:54:49 ◼ ► - I think we're at the point now where what you're writing about with iPadOS a lot of the time
00:54:54 ◼ ► is the new iPad iteration of last year's iPhone feature. So those are unique to the iPad in that
00:55:01 ◼ ► they're not quite implemented the same way as they are on the iPhone and you need to kind of like
00:55:05 ◼ ► talk about why. And then in this case, there were some tweaks to Stage Manager that make it
00:55:09 ◼ ► appreciably better that I got wrote about and I made a little video of the feature where there's,
00:55:16 ◼ ► so as people know, or maybe do not know, one of the frustrations that I had with Stage Manager
00:55:24 ◼ ► and that many other Stage Manager users had is that it was finally an interface that lets you
00:55:29 ◼ ► freely position windows on the iPad, except not freely. Like why, but why? Why would you do this
00:55:35 ◼ ► and then not do it? And so like you put a window somewhere and it goes, oh, I don't want the window
00:55:38 ◼ ► there. I want it over here a little bit. And the one that bothered me was I like to have one
00:55:42 ◼ ► window front and center and then sometimes I like it just to have like one window over on the side
00:55:46 ◼ ► and it'd be like, oh, you've got two windows. You probably want them side by side. It's like, no,
00:55:49 ◼ ► I don't. But in iPadOS 16, that was what they would do. They would just force them to be side
00:55:55 ◼ ► by side and I couldn't drag one into the middle and leave it there. New Stage Manager, the grid is
00:56:02 ◼ ► much tighter. So even though you can't exactly position windows, it feels like you can. It used
00:56:08 ◼ ► to be you'd put it like, I'll put it here. And in 16, the system would be like, how about a little
00:56:14 ◼ ► down into the left? And now it feels like when you say, I'll put it here, it just stays there,
00:56:19 ◼ ► even if maybe it goes a little bit down into the left, but only a teeny tiny bit. Like it's
00:56:22 ◼ ► snapping to a grid, but the grid is so small, so high density that it doesn't feel like it's moving
00:56:29 ◼ ► your window, even if it is a little tiny bit. But the big thing is it is going to honor your choices.
00:56:35 ◼ ► So I can work with a main window right in the center, which is where I'm writing, and have like
00:56:39 ◼ ► a single reference window that's like a PDF or a webpage off to my left, which is usually what I do.
00:56:44 ◼ ► And it keeps it there instead of saying, no, these should be side by side. Because mentally,
00:56:49 ◼ ► I like writing in the center of my screen, not on one half of it. I just don't like working that way.
00:56:57 ◼ ► Everybody can, if you can choose, everybody can choose differently. But in Stage Manager in 16,
00:57:03 ◼ ► you couldn't choose. So that's all great. And then they did this other thing that's very funny,
00:57:08 ◼ ► which is, and I know we've talked about this over the course of this whole debate about,
00:57:11 ◼ ► should there be windows in the iPad? One of the challenges that Apple has is they know that on
00:57:16 ◼ ► the Mac, people lose windows. More novice and even intermediate users, they lose windows and they
00:57:22 ◼ ► don't know how to find them. And Apple has built keyboard shortcuts and system features and trackpad
00:57:28 ◼ ► gestures to show all your windows or show all the windows in your particular app. And the fact is,
00:57:33 ◼ ► people still lose windows. Where'd that window go? And the answer is it's behind other windows,
00:57:37 ◼ ► right? So you can't see it. And out of sight, out of mind. So they're coming to implement windows on
00:57:42 ◼ ► iPad and they're like, all right, we can't let them lose their windows. And so what we got with
00:57:49 ◼ ► iPadOS 16 was this really heavy-handed window management thing that was like, you can't even
00:57:55 ◼ ► put a window in front of another window imbalanced because it's like, mm-mm, we're cleaning all that
00:58:02 ◼ ► stuff up. The window police were really on patrol in iPadOS 16. But part of the reason for that is
00:58:07 ◼ ► this idea that they didn't want this, especially since they don't have like gestures for this or a
00:58:14 ◼ ► window menu in the menu bar, 'cause there's not a menu bar, to like get people out of the hit,
00:58:20 ◼ ► the lost window problem. So in iPadOS 17, what happens if you click on a window and bring it to
00:58:27 ◼ ► the front and it completely covers another window? The answer is the back window peeks out the side
00:58:34 ◼ ► of the window, like it's leaning to the side going, hey, I'm back here. And it just sticks out
00:58:40 ◼ ► just a little tiny bit, but it sticks out and there's an animation and everything. I think
00:58:45 ◼ ► it's kind of adorable. Also, I think it's a very clever, carefully considered solution.
00:58:57 ◼ ► the little buddy window in the background will move along with the window and occasionally will
00:59:04 ◼ ► like pop to the other side and then pop back or pop to, it's like, I'm over here, no, I'm over here,
00:59:08 ◼ ► no, oh, now I'm back over here. And it will chase your window around the screen, but it's always
00:59:13 ◼ ► visible because it doesn't want you to lose it once you know that you left a window behind this
00:59:17 ◼ ► window. I like it, it's really good. And as a result, Stage Manager is vastly more usable
00:59:24 ◼ ► than it would have been before. The real last frontier that they need is to run it without
00:59:31 ◼ ► relying on the external screen, to have a true kind of lid closed mode where you don't have to
00:59:36 ◼ ► keep going back to the main, 'cause even if you run it in fake lid closed mode, which I know
00:59:42 ◼ ► Federico does, where you say, hey, if I cover the screen with the smart cover, don't lock the
00:59:48 ◼ ► display, there are times when the system is like, you need to go use the iPad screen now, if you're
00:59:55 ◼ ► on an external display, just you can't escape it. And they need to address that, 'cause I think
01:00:01 ◼ ► that that would help a lot, but yeah, otherwise it's a pretty good feature. So that was what I
01:00:05 ◼ ► spent. I spent a lot of time with iPadOS 17 and then I sort of like, on the morning of,
01:00:11 ◼ ► on July 12th, I just sort of let it all pour out. Also, a lot of the features that you say
01:00:16 ◼ ► as being in the iOS public beta, we this year decided to just do a story about the platform
01:00:23 ◼ ► features that are on iOS and iPadOS and macOS. And so that took actually some of the content
01:00:29 ◼ ► out of the iOS story and put it in that separate story. - My stickers, check-in, that kind of stuff,
01:00:35 ◼ ► right? Notes, those kinds of features moved. - Yeah, the password sharing, PDF, yeah, the stickers,
01:00:42 ◼ ► all of that stuff is in there, the autocorrect, that stuff. - Was there any, like, aside from
01:00:48 ◼ ► the things you mentioned, any other favorite features across the betas that you've tried
01:00:51 ◼ ► that are really calling out to you, things that you're really enjoying or things that you see
01:00:55 ◼ ► potential for upon full developer adoption? - Well, I like the widgets a lot. I have not
01:01:04 ◼ ► seen enough widget interactivity to make a decision about that. I know there are some betas out there,
01:01:11 ◼ ► but it seems awfully promising to have interactive widgets. - I've also seen videos from developers,
01:01:19 ◼ ► right? Which I think gives you two of, like, some really, really interesting stuff that people are
01:01:23 ◼ ► building. - Yeah, well, imagine a calendar widget that instead of having a list actually had, like,
01:01:29 ◼ ► seven days, and you could tap on any of the days to see what was happening on that day, all without
01:01:34 ◼ ► launching your calendar app. That would be a good feature, right? That is a sort of, like, base-level
01:01:39 ◼ ► productivity feature. Or a lot of these, like, my Fantastic Cal widget, a lot of these widgets,
01:01:44 ◼ ► weather widgets, have this, you know, they have, like, 10 different widget styles. It's like, oh,
01:01:49 ◼ ► you could show this, or you could show this, or you could show this. And I keep thinking Carrot
01:01:52 ◼ ► weather is like this, too. It's like, maybe, imagine this, a widget that had some buttons on it
01:01:59 ◼ ► that let you toggle between hourly and daily, for example, right? That's a, oh, that's nice,
01:02:06 ◼ ► nice idea, right? - Rather than needing a stack. - Not to have to have separate ones, right? A stack
01:02:10 ◼ ► with the different widgets in it. Exactly. So, I think that stuff is good. My PDF tests were pretty
01:02:18 ◼ ► successful. I think that that's gonna be, again, incredibly boring feature. - So, definitely,
01:02:23 ◼ ► it is a really boring feature until you need it, right? And then it's gonna be great. - And then
01:02:27 ◼ ► somebody emails you a PDF, and you're like, ah. Or you got a paper form you're supposed to email
01:02:33 ◼ ► back, and you're like, um. The answer is you take a picture of it, and then it autofills it for you.
01:02:37 ◼ ► Like, that's so, it's so great. So, there's a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of little stuff. This
01:02:43 ◼ ► is the story of these OS releases. I kind of love it. I kind of love it that there are not, like,
01:02:49 ◼ ► here's a huge earth-shattering feature that's going everywhere, and it's gonna change your life
01:02:54 ◼ ► forever. That's not this release, but there's a lot of little stuff, including a bunch of stuff
01:03:01 ◼ ► that we've wanted for a year or two, or maybe even a few years, and other quality of life
01:03:09 ◼ ► improvement things that I've been very impressed by. So, whether it's the camera controls and being
01:03:16 ◼ ► able to take your studio display camera and zoom it in a little bit and pan it a little bit and
01:03:21 ◼ ► say this is where I want it, which you couldn't do before. I would talk about doing video controls in
01:03:26 ◼ ► the OS, and I got this chorus of people every time I would talk about it who'd be like, "Apple's never
01:03:31 ◼ ► gonna do that. Nobody, real people don't want video controls." And it's like, you know, I mean,
01:03:38 ◼ ► they were saying that because Apple didn't offer it, and so there are always people who are rushing
01:03:42 ◼ ► to explain why Apple didn't do something. Apple did it. Apple did it. Apple said, "You know what?
01:03:48 ◼ ► Video camera controls are a good idea," and they implemented it, and they're pretty nice. The auto
01:03:53 ◼ ► correct that they did, it's pretty nice. The password sharing is pretty good. There's a bunch
01:03:59 ◼ ► of that little stuff that is throughout that I like. Let's talk about boring things. As somebody
01:04:08 ◼ ► with a server in my house, the screen sharing app, which used to be interface-less. Essentially, you
01:04:15 ◼ ► would click on share screen in the Finder on a computer, and it would launch the screen sharing
01:04:20 ◼ ► app, but it had no interface. It's got an interface now, and they added this local network
01:04:27 ◼ ► high performance mode where you can theoretically edit video via screen sharing and edit audio via
01:04:34 ◼ ► screen sharing, which kind of works in my testing, but still, screen sharing. Who was lining up with
01:04:44 ◼ ► the torches and the pitchforks being like, "Give us screen sharing!" And yet somebody at Apple was like,
01:04:49 ◼ ► "You know what? We can make screen sharing a lot better. Let's do that this time." And they did.
01:04:53 ◼ ► It's so much better. It's really good. It's that kind of release where you may not look at the
01:05:02 ◼ ► marketing page and go, "Oh, this is amazing." You may be like, "Whatever. I don't care." But I think
01:05:08 ◼ ► for a lot of this stuff, you're going to start using it, and there will undoubtedly be one, two,
01:05:12 ◼ ► three, four things that hit exactly where you live, where it doesn't have to be the most
01:05:19 ◼ ► earth-shattering feature in the world, but if you use screen sharing or if you get frustrated by
01:05:26 ◼ ► your webcam not being pointed quite right, all of these little things, you will be happy.
01:05:33 ◼ ► Also, I wanted to mention, and this is something that podcasts talk about a lot, Apple podcasts
01:05:41 ◼ ► especially, about Apple software that doesn't have the attention to detail it used to, it isn't as
01:05:46 ◼ ► whimsical as it used to be. I noticed several places in this OS where they made decisions,
01:05:53 ◼ ► the little window peeking out from behind other windows is one of them, where there were these
01:05:58 ◼ ► things that felt a little whimsical and also were nice touches that were probably unnecessary,
01:06:14 ◼ ► One example I have of that is the stickers, the stickers in iOS, the fact that you can make them
01:06:20 ◼ ► holographic or bubble stickers, that's a nice little extra thing that wasn't needed, but I love
01:06:25 ◼ ► that it's there. Not necessary. Well, so here's the one that I think is the best representation
01:06:30 ◼ ► of this. In macOS Sonoma, they're unifying, optionally, unifying screensaver, wallpaper,
01:06:39 ◼ ► and lock screen. First off, I love this because I have a custom wallpaper and the lock screen was
01:06:46 ◼ ► always the generic OS lock screen. I hated it. It's like, "Why are you using my wallpaper for
01:06:55 ◼ ► But the screensaver thing, the story was like, "Oh, they brought the aerial screensavers from
01:06:59 ◼ ► Apple TV to macOS. Isn't that nice?" Yes, that's nice. But the way they did it is they organized
01:07:05 ◼ ► it in a different way where you can pick Hawaii or whatever. You can pick specific ones. You don't
01:07:09 ◼ ► have to just be like all nature. And there's a checkbox that says, "Use this as my wallpaper."
01:07:16 ◼ ► Because Apple has decided that every frame of these 4K videos is so beautiful that you could
01:07:21 ◼ ► use it as your wallpaper, which is funny, but I think probably accurate. It's still kind of funny
01:07:26 ◼ ► that they feel that way. They have that confidence. But the thing that blows me away, and this is the
01:07:29 ◼ ► unnecessary thing, is if you're using a screensaver as your wallpaper, the screensaver is going and
01:07:36 ◼ ► you unlock your Mac. What you would expect, I think, as a computer user, is that when you
01:07:43 ◼ ► unlock your Mac, either it would stop immediately and that would be your background, or it would
01:07:52 ◼ ► flicker from your video that was playing to a chosen frame from it. Neither of those things
01:08:01 ◼ ► happen. Instead, when you unlock from the screensaver, your interface comes up, the wallpaper
01:08:09 ◼ ► is still playing on the desktop, and it slows to a halt. It is an effect that is subtle, but it's
01:08:35 ◼ ► There's a takeout there, I'm sure, that's like, "This is the stuff we were missing before,
01:08:51 ◼ ► Depending on how you're feeling about Apple today, you might be like, "Ah, more of this, please."
01:08:56 ◼ ► Or you might be like, "Yep, that's what they do." Either way, I was taken aback by how completely
01:09:04 ◼ ► unnecessary it was, and yet it's delightful. That, to me, is-- Look, not every feature can be like
01:09:12 ◼ ► that, but I think that's a quintessentially Apple moment of saying, "We need to take time to give
01:09:22 ◼ ► this the proper fit and finish," and saying, "Well, when they unlock, it'll just jump to a
01:09:28 ◼ ► keyframe," or, "When they unlock, we'll just stop it." Obviously, at some point, somebody looked at
01:09:33 ◼ ► that behavior and said, "It's unpleasant. What can we do to make this nicer?" And then somebody else,
01:09:39 ◼ ► or many people else, came up with the idea of, "What if we wait momentarily and then slow the
01:09:47 ◼ ► video, and it's like it eases to a stop, and then you're hovering in that one frame, and that's your
01:09:52 ◼ ► background?" It's just delightful. I think that's representative. I think these OS updates are all
01:09:58 ◼ ► really good. They're very gentle. They're not particularly disruptive. I guess that brings us
01:10:02 ◼ ► to the big question, which is, should anybody install them? I've kind of come around on this,
01:10:09 ◼ ► which is, Apple calls it a public beta. As far as I'm concerned, Apple thinks it's fine for you to
01:10:16 ◼ ► install them. Due diligence, you should probably check and see that some app that you're relying on
01:10:21 ◼ ► does not break under the beta before you use it. If you're going to lose your job, if you can't use
01:10:28 ◼ ► this app, and you install the beta and you can't use that app, you should check. Right? Check.
01:10:33 ◼ ► Check. For us, it's Audio Hijack. That's why I have a second computer now, so that I can,
01:10:38 ◼ ► for the summer, use Audio Hijack on computer number two while I'm using the beta on computer
01:10:43 ◼ ► number one. That's my due diligence there. I am not comfortable warning people away from these
01:10:49 ◼ ► betas like I used to. One, I've been using them for a few weeks. They're fine. Maybe the mobile
01:10:56 ◼ ► devices drain battery a little bit faster. Maybe not. Some of that is probably just the update to
01:11:00 ◼ ► the beta. Over time, I found my battery life is fine. I don't think it's worse, but your mileage
01:11:06 ◼ ► may vary. But, you know, Apple, I know it's called a beta, but it's a public beta. Apple makes these
01:11:14 ◼ ► for the public. So, if you want to go ahead, as long as you've checked and made sure that whatever
01:11:19 ◼ ► app you rely on, if you've got one, doesn't completely break. And there's a small list of
01:11:24 ◼ ► the ones that do out there. You can find it. But other than that, like, sure. I mean, if you want
01:11:32 ◼ ► to get access to this stuff, that's why they make a public beta. You're the public. Go forth in beta.
01:11:56 ◼ ► the complaints that we have with the control center toggles. They don't randomly change,
01:12:02 ◼ ► right? You can have a recommended one, or you can actually specifically say what you want to be in
01:12:08 ◼ ► each widget. So, you could have multiple widgets for different rooms or even like for whatever.
01:12:14 ◼ ► You could even have it for, like me, I could have different widgets for the studio and for home,
01:12:22 ◼ ► I tried this out. I put my number one used home item in a widget. It's my living room lights. And
01:12:31 ◼ ► what I do is I set the brightness and dimness of them. Doesn't work. Widget wants to tap it on and
01:12:40 ◼ ► off. And I should file a feedback about this. What you could do is make a scene. Well, yeah, but,
01:12:46 ◼ ► like, tap and hold. I get it that like that gesture is there to edit the widget. So, you can't
01:12:53 ◼ ► do that. But like, I want at least the ability to tap on the thing and have it bring up the slider
01:12:58 ◼ ► or bring up some presets or something. But because on off is not what I need. I need adjust brightness.
01:13:08 ◼ ► I need the slider. So, yes, I would have to create some scenes with it at different things.
01:13:18 ◼ ► Doesn't change my point, which is Apple should solve this. There should be a better way to do
01:13:22 ◼ ► this. You should not be able to put a home item in a widget and say, oh, you wanted it to dim?
01:13:32 ◼ ► >> Yeah. But I like the on off anyway, because that's mostly what I'm doing. But I agree. Like,
01:13:36 ◼ ► if I was trying to do that, it would be annoying. I love the shortcuts ones. I love that you can
01:13:41 ◼ ► have two actions on the little widget now, right? Like the smallest one. Little widget's got two
01:13:49 ◼ ► >> So much. So proud. Gone to school now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Little widget goes to college.
01:13:55 ◼ ► I love it. >> Standby is so much better than I thought it was going to be. I love it. I now have
01:14:00 ◼ ► MagSafe docs. I bought the studio neat MagSafe docs. I have them in the studio here. Yes, it is
01:14:06 ◼ ► frustrating that I have to take my MagSafe pop socket off, but it's actually the feature is
01:14:10 ◼ ► worth it. Like, I actually really like the main views. So the one where you can set up widgets,
01:14:17 ◼ ► and then the photos one. I think they're both fantastic. They're configurable. I have an app
01:14:22 ◼ ► that works in this. So Timery has standby widgets. Awesome. Like right now, I'm looking at my phone,
01:14:29 ◼ ► and it's telling me that I have a timer set for upgrade and how long it's been on the left. And
01:14:33 ◼ ► then on the right, it's going between a clock that I like, a clock face that I like. It's in a stack
01:14:39 ◼ ► of also some photos, like an album of my choice. And then sometimes I can swipe over if I want to,
01:14:45 ◼ ► and I can see the photos screen, I guess, which goes between featured images. You can see nature,
01:14:53 ◼ ► cities, and people. And it just like gently changes. And I find it very delightful while
01:14:59 ◼ ► I'm recording to just have this little photo frame going. So I think standby is fantastic.
01:15:05 ◼ ► I like it. I do have some complaints. One of my complaints is that in that one view where you've
01:15:11 ◼ ► got the clock, they only have clocks with hands, and they don't have digital time. There's another
01:15:19 ◼ ► view that's got digital time. But if you want to have the time in the square, with another one with
01:15:27 ◼ ► a widget, you can't do that. You only can have clock faces with hands. And it doesn't make any
01:15:32 ◼ ► sense to me because in that view, I'm often not close enough to properly parse the hands. I just
01:15:41 ◼ ► want a number there. And the numbers in the other view, but not in that view. And what I really want
01:15:45 ◼ ► to do is put the time and a widget together, and it won't let me. So again, I should file a feedback.
01:15:55 ◼ ► - Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. But again, like David Smith shouldn't have to. There are multiple
01:16:08 ◼ ► - I can tell time, but sometimes I just want the numbers. It's far away. I want to see the number.
01:16:14 ◼ ► - The share sheet is horrifically broken for me, which is pretty funny. Most of the time,
01:16:20 ◼ ► I see share extensions for airdrop messages, mail, news, and books. I don't know why those
01:16:25 ◼ ► ones specifically. Notes is the one I'm looking for, which is not showing up anymore. So I can't
01:16:31 ◼ ► add things very easily to my show notes. And also shortcuts does a really bad job of appending to
01:16:36 ◼ ► notes. So like, this isn't great, but I know it will come back. Yeah, it just is what it is.
01:16:47 ◼ ► - The funny thing for me, Jason, is it has gotten worse. Like it was fine at the start.
01:17:02 ◼ ► - Yeah. I've noticed that airdrop is weird, right? Like airdrop, you tap it. And I've noticed that
01:17:08 ◼ ► there's this sort of like, I can't find anything. And you're like, work it out. And then it goes,
01:17:13 ◼ ► oh, oh, right. There's a computer right next to me. I'm like, yeah, you got it. You got there.
01:17:21 ◼ ► and this is something I don't think we've talked about. Just I'm going to mention it here.
01:17:24 ◼ ► You know that the new feature where you can like tap to, or bring one phone next to another in
01:17:30 ◼ ► order to share contacts or set up an airdrop. I hadn't thought about it before in this way,
01:17:37 ◼ ► but this is when I had the, I had a moment of like, oh, that's why. And it's, they took the
01:17:43 ◼ ► ability to always see other people in airdrop away, right? That was one of those things that
01:17:49 ◼ ► you can turn it on for like 15 minutes to airdrop to anybody, but it's off. It's only your contacts
01:17:56 ◼ ► or nobody by default. This is the other part of that feature. This is the, so now I'm with
01:18:03 ◼ ► somebody. They're not in my contacts or whatever, and I want to airdrop them something. How do I do
01:18:07 ◼ ► that? And it used to be, you had to go to that setting or have that setting on all the time.
01:18:12 ◼ ► And the answer now is that there's a one-time airdrop privilege given by proximity. I hadn't
01:18:17 ◼ ► really thought about that before. And so that proximity thing is the solution to the, but what
01:18:23 ◼ ► if I want to airdrop something to people I don't know, and now you've turned off that feature. The
01:18:28 ◼ ► answer is bring them close to each other. And then it's the proximity. And then you saying, yes, I
01:18:35 ◼ ► will, is enough approval, enough for Apple to be confident that you're going to, that you've given
01:18:41 ◼ ► your permission essentially to receive something as opposed to it just being through the airwaves.
01:18:46 ◼ ► Anyway. You know, you're saying about airdrop. That's one of the places that I've been seeing
01:18:51 ◼ ► tip tips. I'm seeing them everywhere. This is the thing we spoke about. And I think it's actually
01:19:00 ◼ ► when I bring up a photo picker, it says, hey, this app can only see certain images because you said
01:19:05 ◼ ► that, right? That's one. And so you can change that feature. I saw one for airdrop where it's
01:19:10 ◼ ► like, hey, you can just bring your phone next to somebody else's phone. Like I am actually quite,
01:19:15 ◼ ► I mean, I'm impressed with Tipkit. I think it's doing a good job of surfacing features. And I hope
01:19:21 ◼ ► that they continue to put the effort into that because I think it is the solve for the problem
01:19:25 ◼ ► that we were talking about a number of weeks ago. I think it's actually doing it. Yeah. No, I think
01:19:30 ◼ ► having looked at that session, because it doesn't have to be right away, it can wait, it can, it can
01:19:35 ◼ ► spread them out. It can, you can actually say like, I know that I've got 15 different tips I could
01:19:40 ◼ ► show right now, but I can only ever show one tip every two days or whatever. It's smart enough to
01:19:45 ◼ ► do that. I really like that about it. You mentioned the photo thing. That's a feature that apps are
01:19:53 ◼ ► going to get, have to get updated, but I love it. Because in the end, what Apple first tried to do
01:19:58 ◼ ► is have this thing where it was sort of like, you could choose photos to put in a box and then the
01:20:03 ◼ ► app could see the photos you put in the box. And that saved you from having to give them access to
01:20:08 ◼ ► your whole library. The new system is you don't give the app permission to see any photos, but the
01:20:17 ◼ ► photo picker they bring up, the app can't see the photos in the photo picker. The photo picker is a
01:20:22 ◼ ► system photo picker and you pick the photos and then you press select or press okay or whatever.
01:20:29 ◼ ► And then those photos are handed back to the app. So, which is honestly how it should have been all
01:20:34 ◼ ► along. It was wild that you had that setting of like, allow access to all photos or just the ones
01:20:39 ◼ ► you choose. It's like, I don't know why. I did that in Slack at one point and then it was like,
01:20:44 ◼ ► literally, I would see the same three photos every time I tried to add a photo to Slack,
01:20:51 ◼ ► But how do you do that? And the answer is, I think that third-party apps are all going to basically
01:21:09 ◼ ► - I mentioned stickers earlier. I think that they're really fun and I like the way that
01:21:13 ◼ ► they've done them. I like that we have the emoji stickers, but it's not complete yet because
01:21:21 ◼ ► - Yes. I'll be able to bring in my reference acknowledged emoji as a sticker and then use
01:21:36 ◼ ► - Please. I'll look forward to it. The keyboard autocorrect is super good. I like the way it
01:21:41 ◼ ► feels, I like the way it looks and works. It's definitely more reliable. I like how it's,
01:21:47 ◼ ► the more I'm using it, I feel like it's getting way better at giving me the next words that I
01:21:52 ◼ ► might want to use or a full sentence. You just press the, it puts them in light gray, you just
01:21:56 ◼ ► press the space bar and it fills it all in. My expectation is it will just get better and better
01:22:01 ◼ ► and better as time goes on and it learns from me because that's what the system is supposed to do.
01:22:05 ◼ ► - Yeah, it's not perfect. I don't want to overhype it. It's a lot better. It's not perfect. You can
01:22:16 ◼ ► it should be going back and correcting a word in a sentence once the sentence is complete. I feel
01:22:22 ◼ ► like there are sometimes there are things that are clearly an autocorrect change that when the
01:22:29 ◼ ► sentence is complete, that first word shouldn't say, or shouldn't have an apostrophe in it anymore,
01:22:42 ◼ ► - Yeah. I have had great success with the thing that always bothered me, which is that it corrects
01:22:47 ◼ ► the correct thing to the wrong thing. And now I love the fact that I can tap on it and put it back
01:22:52 ◼ ► to what I actually typed, which is correct. Also, what I've found is that sometimes that underline
01:22:59 ◼ ► includes what I typed and other options that are close. So what if I type something and it's a
01:23:05 ◼ ► little bit wrong and then it autocorrects it to the wrong thing? When I tap that, it will give
01:23:11 ◼ ► me the thing I typed that's a little bit wrong and often it will give me the thing that's the
01:23:15 ◼ ► alternate correction that is what I typed. And I can go to that one. So that's all better too.
01:23:20 ◼ ► - The visuals for text selection, the cursor, all of that looks nicer too, more alive feeling,
01:23:27 ◼ ► like they've done a really good job with the UI of all of that. There is a problem though, Jason.
01:23:42 ◼ ► So when you use to type lol in iOS 16, you would get three emoji that would appear in the
01:23:50 ◼ ► quick type bar. They would be face with tears of joy, so like the laughing with the tears coming
01:23:56 ◼ ► out, grinning squinting face and squinting face with tongue. I have a screenshot in the show notes
01:24:02 ◼ ► that shows all of these three. The new ones are winking face with tongue, so you're winking
01:24:16 ◼ ► - None of the, like the two that they've changed, they changed face with tears of joy and grinning
01:24:22 ◼ ► squinting face, replaced it with winking face with tongue, which is not even laughing. That's
01:24:26 ◼ ► not even laughing. One is literally ROFL, not LOL. The emoji is called rolling on the floor laughing
01:24:36 ◼ ► and you've made that the LOL emoji, which is too much, right? Like all you really want,
01:24:41 ◼ ► like for me, it was just those first two, like I would use face with tears of joy and grinning
01:24:45 ◼ ► squinting face. And I would just, I have a few things like this where I type the letters as a
01:24:52 ◼ ► quick to get the emoji. So like I type LOL and because I know I'm going to get a good emoji,
01:25:04 ◼ ► They've done a bad job with this change and I want them to change it back. I'm saying it here,
01:25:09 ◼ ► I will eventually file a radar if they don't change it. Maybe we'll be a new beta this week.
01:25:21 ◼ ► - I would just say actually people in the Discord are saying they see different ones. Now that
01:25:26 ◼ ► doesn't make any sense to me. Why is that happening? But anyway, this is what I'm seeing.
01:25:32 ◼ ► So there is something going wrong. Maybe it's showing different emoji for different people,
01:25:35 ◼ ► but that's bad because they've chosen the wrong ones here. These aren't emoji that I use very
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01:27:43 ◼ ► The first one comes from Josh. If Intel continued to give Apple what they wanted so they never
01:27:53 ◼ ► needed to switch to Apple Silicon, do you think this would have changed the trajectory of the iPad
01:28:11 ◼ ► first off I dispute the question. I don't think that Apple went to Apple Silicon because
01:28:18 ◼ ► Intel gave Apple what it needed. I think that was much less the case than in any of the previous
01:28:23 ◼ ► processor transitions. I think it's more that Apple became more and more comfortable with their own
01:28:28 ◼ ► chip design, more comfortable with writing features, writing software for that chip, looked at their
01:28:34 ◼ ► Intel products and said, "Why do we still use Intel for this when we build our own chip that
01:28:39 ◼ ► can do this and do it better?" I think that that's primarily what drove Apple here is that they
01:28:44 ◼ ► already were making those chips. Why would they not? I think that, alternately, if Apple was like,
01:28:50 ◼ ► "We just want to keep the Mac on Intel," I think that's maybe what was happening earlier
01:28:58 ◼ ► moment and that they were viewing the Mac as a legacy platform, which would stay on Intel and
01:29:05 ◼ ► keep doing what it was doing, at which point the iPad was going to be more of that Mac replacement.
01:29:13 ◼ ► I think I can't pick apart this question because I think the path where Apple kept the Mac on Intel
01:29:19 ◼ ► is the path where the iPad is a Mac replacement. But I don't think it has much to do with what
01:29:28 ◼ ► Intel gave Apple. I think in the end, Apple, one, looked at its chip design and said, "These are
01:29:34 ◼ ► great. We could do these for Macs too." And two, decided that the Mac was something that they didn't
01:29:39 ◼ ► want to just put in the parking lot, but they actually wanted to make appreciably better by
01:29:45 ◼ ► leaning into the fact that they made all these other devices. They're all mobile devices. Let's
01:29:50 ◼ ► point out the Mac is primarily a mobile device at this point. Three-quarters of Macs sold,
01:29:54 ◼ ► roughly, our laptops. So they looked at that and said, "Well, we're a mobile device company,
01:30:02 ◼ ► essentially, and we excel at this. So let's take the Mac and make it this great new thing instead
01:30:07 ◼ ► of parking it." And by doing that, the iPad fell by the wayside as a Mac replacement. So
01:30:13 ◼ ► I mean, that's my answer. I question some of the premise, but I do think Josh is getting to
01:30:18 ◼ ► something here, which is, I think that's the decision point. From the outside, as an outside
01:30:22 ◼ ► observer, it feels like that's really the fork in the road, where they decided to not keep the Mac
01:30:27 ◼ ► as an Intel compatibility old platform, and instead bring it into Apple Silicon and more
01:30:35 ◼ ► aggressively update it and update its features and bring the iOS features over to it and all of that.
01:30:40 ◼ ► And that's where we are now. Yeah, I wanted to, I knew that there was a lot of jumps that we had
01:30:45 ◼ ► to do, right, to kind of talk about this because it is naturally, it's a thought exercise, right?
01:30:52 ◼ ► But I wanted to bring it in today because I thought that it actually dovetailed quite nicely
01:30:56 ◼ ► with the conversation around the Mac roundtable of what was the iPad's timeline then, right?
01:31:04 ◼ ► If or how would that have potentially been changed? Like, I don't know. I mean, maybe the iPad was
01:31:11 ◼ ► supposed to step up a bit more than it has. Yeah, I think there was probably a moment where they
01:31:18 ◼ ► shifted effort into the Mac, and probably what happened is the effort into the iPad as a priority
01:31:23 ◼ ► was reduced at that point, right? Because you got to get that from somewhere. And if the Mac is
01:31:28 ◼ ► really kind of end of life, then you would scramble, I think, more to make the iPad a Mac
01:31:35 ◼ ► replacement. And the stuff we've seen would have been faster and would have been amped up. So not
01:31:40 ◼ ► only your desktop class apps and Final Cut and Logic and all this, I think there would have been
01:31:49 ◼ ► more stuff like that poured into the iPad side if they were like, "Really, the Mac is only going to
01:31:54 ◼ ► be out there until 25 or something like that. And it's going to be diminishing in sales, and we're
01:32:00 ◼ ► just going to slap Intel processors into it. And it's going to be for legacy computing, but we're
01:32:05 ◼ ► going to build the new platform." And it would have been a Final Cut Pro X kind of thing where
01:32:09 ◼ ► they're like, "Old one's right over there, but we're building the new one over here. Be patient."
01:32:13 ◼ ► People weren't patient. And then in a few years, it'll be something that's perfectly suitable
01:32:18 ◼ ► for some, and people would still be unhappy with it. I mean, that's what would have happened. But
01:32:22 ◼ ► instead, we veered off. And I think as somebody who loves the Mac, I think it's a great decision
01:32:28 ◼ ► to say the Mac is not a legacy platform. The Mac will continue to grow and change and improve.
01:32:32 ◼ ► And as we said a couple of weeks ago, part of that decision is doing things like making it very
01:32:39 ◼ ► difficult to make a Mac Pro that makes sense. But they made that decision, and here we are.
01:32:43 ◼ ► I'll say this, if they had not made that decision, we'd still have an Intel Mac Pro, I guess? I don't
01:32:49 ◼ ► know. I guess maybe we wouldn't. We'd only have an iMac Pro at that point, a Xeon iMac Pro, and that
01:32:54 ◼ ► would be the high-end Mac. I really wish that it was possible to live out that timeline, like
01:32:59 ◼ ► really to know what was going to go on, like what was the plan. Man, that would have been...
01:33:04 ◼ ► Just like I'd love to see the fascinating alternate history. Mike Hurley in the Mac multiverse of
01:33:09 ◼ ► madness. Or the multiverse of makness? Yeah, the multiverse of makness. Multiverse of makness,
01:33:14 ◼ ► yes. I like that. Rob asks, "With iPadOS 17 getting lock screen widgets, how long before an iPad
01:33:22 ◼ ► gets an always-on display?" I mean, it's within the next year. I reckon one of the key drivers
01:33:28 ◼ ► for the OLED iPad that is supposedly coming within the next year is tying in with this. It might be...
01:33:36 ◼ ► I mean, honestly, it's probably why it's in 17, because before iOS 18, there will be an OLED iPad.
01:33:44 ◼ ► Yeah, I'm willing to hedge and say... Because remember, we had OLED iPhones and they didn't
01:33:51 ◼ ► do always-on, right? So I'm willing to hedge a little bit, but I feel like my hedge is basically
01:33:57 ◼ ► like, maybe it's only always-on in Nightstand. Something like that, right? It's only on when
01:34:03 ◼ ► it's plugged in. I mean, they could do an LTPO display on an iPad, like why not? So, but I think
01:34:10 ◼ ► so. I think that this is all lining up, right? Where it's like, you got those widgets on there,
01:34:14 ◼ ► and then you do an OLED iPad, and then you can see the lock screen widgets all the time. But
01:34:23 ◼ ► Which would be kind of nice, but at the very least, the lock screen widgets, yeah. Yeah,
01:34:27 ◼ ► I think so. I don't think Nightstand... Because I think Nightstand requires the charging as part of
01:34:35 ◼ ► it, right? I feel like it's true. And so, and I think they do that because it is showing more
01:34:41 ◼ ► than an always-on display shows, which is why they're like, things are continually moving.
01:34:46 ◼ ► Yes. And so I think that's why they want it to be like in conjunction with the charging. And it's
01:34:51 ◼ ► about, well, will the iPad get mag safe? Should do, I think, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
01:34:58 ◼ ► Last question. This one we've had in our document for a while, and I just thought it would be
01:35:02 ◼ ► interesting to bring up right now. Jack asks, do either of you use third-party keyboards on
01:35:07 ◼ ► your iOS devices? Nope. I used to. I used to use Gboard because the autocorrect was better,
01:35:13 ◼ ► but then Apple's autocorrect got better. And I have used TextExpander before, but now like
01:35:20 ◼ ► most of the apps that I really want TextExpander in, they integrate with really. And yeah,
01:35:25 ◼ ► third-party keyboards just never really got that full support that they should have to be
01:35:30 ◼ ► completely effective. And again, it's like over time, one of the reasons I used to use Gboard
01:35:35 ◼ ► because I love the swipe typing, but then Apple added swipe typing to the keyboards. It's like,
01:35:39 ◼ ► well, I have less and less needs for an external keyboard now. Yep. If you would like to send us in
01:35:46 ◼ ► your feedback, your follow-up, or questions for the show, go to upgradefeedback.com. Also go to
01:35:52 ◼ ► sixcolors.com where you'll be able to read Jason's work. Go and check out all of the wonderful first
01:35:58 ◼ ► looks that Dan and Jason put together over at sixcolors.com. If you want more, you want videos
01:36:04 ◼ ► and imagery that goes along with some of the stuff we've spoken about today. You can also hear
01:36:09 ◼ ► Jason's other shows at the incomparable.com and here on Real AFM. I can't wait for the next
01:36:14 ◼ ► episode of Downstream because I feel like Hollywood is imploding right now. And I can't
01:36:18 ◼ ► wait to hear what you and Julia have to say about it. There's a lot going on. There's so much going
01:36:22 ◼ ► on. I listen to so many podcasts. I listen to an emergency podcast right now. It's like a,
01:36:28 ◼ ► it's like a thing. You can listen to my other shows here on Real AFM. You can check out my
01:36:32 ◼ ► work at cortexbrand.com. You can find Jason and I on Mastodon and Threads. Jason is at J Snell.
01:36:38 ◼ ► I am at iMike, I M Y K E. You can find the show on Mastodon as @upgrade on relayfm.social. You'll
01:36:45 ◼ ► be able to find video clips of the show there. Also on TikTok and Instagram where we are @upgraderelay.
01:36:51 ◼ ► I think there's going to be some pretty good ones from this episode. So I recommend that you go and
01:36:55 ◼ ► check them out. Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus. You can get longer
01:36:59 ◼ ► ad-free versions of the show by going to getupgradeplus.com. And thank you to our sponsors
01:37:04 ◼ ► this week, ZocDoc, Notion and Electric for their support of the show. But as always, most of all,
01:37:11 ◼ ► more than anything else, thank you for listening. Until then, say goodbye to Jason Snow.
01:37:16 ◼ ► Until when? Next time. I always say until then. It's just how I say it, you know, sometimes you've
01:37:23 ◼ ► got to feel it's like a bookend, you know, like I say like until next time at the start and then