Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:11 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 462, recorded live from Apple Park.

00:00:17 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, Fitbod, and Notion.

00:00:21 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley, and I'm joined sitting right next to me by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Ladies and gentlemen, Mike Hurley told me earlier today, and I can report this exclusively here on Upgrade,

00:00:31 ◼   ► that this is one of the greatest days of his life.

00:00:34 ◼   ► It is indeed. I made it. I have dealt with lots of jokes at the expense of my friends

00:00:39 ◼   ► about if I would make it to the keynote today, and I'm happy to report I made it to the keynote today.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Yeah, you were right behind me.

00:00:45 ◼   ► I was right behind you. We were—

00:00:47 ◼   ► We were in the sun. There's a very narrow part of the area—

00:00:49 ◼   ► We were in the sun for a short period of time.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Yes, and then the sun went away behind me.

00:00:53 ◼   ► We actually had really good seats for that reason. So there was kind of like,

00:00:57 ◼   ► tons of seats outside, half under a canopy, and then some kind of sitting behind, right?

00:01:03 ◼   ► Like kind of like a—like it kind of in towards the building, and we were right on the edge.

00:01:09 ◼   ► So at first it was sun there, so no one was sitting there. So like, all right, we'll sit there.

00:01:12 ◼   ► But then as the sun went away, because time moves the sun, that's how that works.

00:01:17 ◼   ► That's not—

00:01:18 ◼   ► It is. No, that's how it works. And then we were in shade. It was lovely. And we had great seats.

00:01:22 ◼   ► We did.

00:01:22 ◼   ► For quite an incredible time.

00:01:24 ◼   ► Quite a show, yeah.

00:01:26 ◼   ► So we're just going to get through what we're going to get through,

00:01:28 ◼   ► so we can start talking about all the announcements of today.

00:01:31 ◼   ► So keynote was incredible. I had a wonderful time. It was amazing to watch it.

00:01:36 ◼   ► We got to go to the Steve Jobs Theater, and I went there for the first time.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Just amazing. I'm going to take some time to process all of this, I think.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I think it's going to—

00:01:44 ◼   ► It's a big day.

00:01:45 ◼   ► It's got to settle in for me a little bit.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Big day for Mike.

00:01:48 ◼   ► We have some new merch available.

00:01:49 ◼   ► If you go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com, you will find a selection of designs to celebrate the Summer of Fun,

00:01:55 ◼   ► which is kind of going to start next week, because we're going to record it in person in your garden.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Indeed.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Very summery.

00:02:01 ◼   ► But we brought back a bunch of Summer of Fun designs, including a brand new design,

00:02:06 ◼   ► which is the Dungletown Surf Shop. Do you want to tell the Upgradians about that?

00:02:09 ◼   ► It's a—you might—you walk down to the beach there in Dungletown, and there's Thunderbolt Dock, is right there.

00:02:16 ◼   ► And Thunderbolt Dock, as you may know, is a famous, world-famous surf shop.

00:02:20 ◼   ► So the Thunderbolt Dock Surf Shop tee is now available, along with a couple of classics, Summer of Fun.

00:02:27 ◼   ► And just for the next couple of weeks.

00:02:29 ◼   ► So get in there, buy many, buy them soon.

00:02:32 ◼   ► upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:02:35 ◼   ► Now we move into draft results.

00:02:37 ◼   ► Yes.

00:02:37 ◼   ► So we actually did some adjudication before the episode.

00:02:40 ◼   ► It's a quiet ceremony, adjacent to this podcast studio at Apple Park.

00:02:45 ◼   ► Mike and I got together, had a discussion, and consulted with Stephen Hackett on a key feature.

00:02:50 ◼   ► And we've decided, and have shaken hands on it, that the final score was 10-10,

00:02:55 ◼   ► with Mike winning on the tiebreaker because the keynote was about two hours and five minutes long.

00:03:02 ◼   ► I was—we were getting an hour and 56, and I'm like, "Oh, the tiebreaker's going to me."

00:03:06 ◼   ► No, yeah, yeah.

00:03:07 ◼   ► Because they were like, "Now let's talk about the technology."

00:03:09 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Oh, I'm good."

00:03:11 ◼   ► At about 150, I thought, "Oh no, we've gone it. It's not going to happen now."

00:03:15 ◼   ► So we'll probably go through another time the actual scoring, maybe,

00:03:20 ◼   ► because again, there's a ton to do today.

00:03:22 ◼   ► But I'm happy with that 10-10.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Well, the key thing to know about this is we did the other category.

00:03:28 ◼   ► I went into the other category thinking firmly that there would be no Mac stuff announced here.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Mere days after we recorded that, it became clear that Mac stuff would be announced here.

00:03:38 ◼   ► And that was pretty much all she wrote.

00:03:40 ◼   ► Yep.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Yeah, take it in.

00:03:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm happy to win.

00:03:48 ◼   ► So I'm keeping the draft dream alive.

00:03:52 ◼   ► I reckon there's probably only one more event this year.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Probably.

00:03:55 ◼   ► I mean, you never know, but probably.

00:03:57 ◼   ► It feels like maybe.

00:03:58 ◼   ► So, well, who knows, actually?

00:03:59 ◼   ► Because this is the thing that I think I'm most surprised about.

00:04:03 ◼   ► We're going to talk about in-depth reality—no, wait, it's not—

00:04:06 ◼   ► it's called Apple Vision Pro.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Apple Vision.

00:04:08 ◼   ► Pro.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Classic, a name from history, brought back.

00:04:11 ◼   ► But the timing of it is interesting to me.

00:04:14 ◼   ► I guess we'll hear more about it in September, but we might not.

00:04:16 ◼   ► We might not.

00:04:17 ◼   ► We might be.

00:04:18 ◼   ► We might wait until like December maybe, or early next year, depending on when it's available.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Which is kind of fascinating.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Alright, but we need to get into Apple Vision Pro.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Let me take our first break, and we'll start breaking it down.

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00:05:22 ◼   ► I have been using Squarespace forever.

00:05:25 ◼   ► As long as I've been producing things online, which I realize has been about 15 years now,

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00:05:58 ◼   ► I maybe have never felt less prepared for a show than I feel right now.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Yeah, we, um, two things.

00:06:08 ◼   ► First off, we last night were talking about this and there comes a moment when those of

00:06:13 ◼   ► us who enjoy preparing for podcasts or anything else in life realize there's literally nothing

00:06:17 ◼   ► more you can do because we don't know the answers until 10 a.m. on Monday.

00:06:23 ◼   ► And so you can't prepare in advance.

00:06:25 ◼   ► You really can't.

00:06:26 ◼   ► And then secondarily, we've been running around Apple Park all day, whereas normally you are

00:06:31 ◼   ► watching from somewhere and watching the keynote and then afterward you do some diligent work

00:06:37 ◼   ► and I'm running around and don't know what's going on.

00:06:40 ◼   ► And then you tell me, so what's going on?

00:06:42 ◼   ► My biggest thing, and I have no doubt because the Upgradients have listened to this show

00:06:46 ◼   ► forever, they, you know, they know our stories.

00:06:49 ◼   ► I decided today to not take notes during the keynote.

00:06:52 ◼   ► I wanted to sit and just watch it and enjoy it and be around all my friends and like have

00:06:58 ◼   ► that experience rather than sitting there as I would normally do and taking all my notes.

00:07:02 ◼   ► So we're going a little bit more off the dome today, but I thought it would be best to start

00:07:06 ◼   ► by talking about Apple Vision Pro.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Uh, straight up the name.

00:07:11 ◼   ► Good name.

00:07:12 ◼   ► Good name.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Good name.

00:07:14 ◼   ► I looked and I don't think we ever predicted it, although I think maybe I saw or participated

00:07:17 ◼   ► in a conversation somewhere where it came up as a list of possible names and because

00:07:21 ◼   ► somebody mentioned, because Apple Vision at one point there was a monitor called Apple

00:07:25 ◼   ► Vision.

00:07:26 ◼   ► I think in the power early power Mac era, Apple had a branded monitor called Apple Vision.

00:07:31 ◼   ► So name floating out there.

00:07:33 ◼   ► I like it.

00:07:34 ◼   ► I think it's a better name than any of the other names that were rumored about it.

00:07:37 ◼   ► I think it's actually a very good name.

00:07:38 ◼   ► And is it Vision OS?

00:07:40 ◼   ► It is Vision OS.

00:07:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:42 ◼   ► Good.

00:07:43 ◼   ► Also a good name.

00:07:44 ◼   ► Reality or XR or VR or AR.

00:07:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Just got to hand it to the marketing team there.

00:07:48 ◼   ► They did it.

00:07:49 ◼   ► Thumbs up.

00:07:50 ◼   ► I think the interesting thing is that, I mean, I do wonder if they were trying to lead people

00:07:55 ◼   ► off this cause there are a lot of trademarks, right?

00:07:57 ◼   ► I think, well, I think at one point you were doing it to cover all your bases and then

00:08:01 ◼   ► at another point you keep it going because what you really want to do is, um, not give

00:08:06 ◼   ► it away.

00:08:07 ◼   ► And also as you say, like who knows when this part is actually decided, it's like one of

00:08:11 ◼   ► the least important things in the overall idea of the PR create in the presentation

00:08:16 ◼   ► does not come out until 2024.

00:08:18 ◼   ► There are no boxes, right?

00:08:19 ◼   ► There's no, there's no story here.

00:08:22 ◼   ► There's no developer story.

00:08:23 ◼   ► There's literally a price and next year and that's it.

00:08:27 ◼   ► So they can call it, I mean, honestly they could have called it anything.

00:08:31 ◼   ► I think there's going to be more of a developer story over the next couple of days.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Cause they gave some basic kind of outlines of these that we're using the same tools and

00:08:40 ◼   ► stuff, you know, and you know that.

00:08:43 ◼   ► And I think one of the presenters did say that there would be more this week and more

00:08:48 ◼   ► this year.

00:08:49 ◼   ► I expect the state is for context, you know, cause saying about not being prepared.

00:08:54 ◼   ► So we watched the keynote, went to the hands on area.

00:08:56 ◼   ► I went and got a coffee and then we came straight to record and you also had a briefing in that

00:09:02 ◼   ► time when I was grabbing a drink.

00:09:04 ◼   ► And so we, we are currently counter programming the state of the union, which I have no doubt

00:09:09 ◼   ► that talking about in the state of the union and I'm sure that there will be a bajillion

00:09:13 ◼   ► sessions because it's what people want to know.

00:09:16 ◼   ► I mean more that there is, there was no sort of like how do developers get their hands

00:09:19 ◼   ► on the hardware, which maybe that story will happen too.

00:09:22 ◼   ► But the point is, um, this product is not like, we got a lot of products today that

00:09:27 ◼   ► we'll talk about later where it seemed like they were never going to come out or they

00:09:31 ◼   ► were not going to come out for a very long time.

00:09:33 ◼   ► And then they're like, Oh yeah, next week it'll be there.

00:09:36 ◼   ► This was not that right.

00:09:37 ◼   ► This is, this is so far out there and this is a unique chance where Apple has a brand

00:09:41 ◼   ► new product that they can pre-announce it.

00:09:43 ◼   ► They can lay all the groundwork they want in whatever way they want and they don't have

00:09:47 ◼   ► to, I mean literally they could have changed other than recording the videos.

00:09:52 ◼   ► Like the night before they recorded the videos for this, they could have changed the name

00:09:55 ◼   ► if they wanted to.

00:09:56 ◼   ► So they had that freedom that they don't usually have, but they chose a great name.

00:10:00 ◼   ► I think it's a good name.

00:10:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:02 ◼   ► The, we talk about the hubber a ton obviously, right?

00:10:04 ◼   ► But the biggest thing is the screen on the front.

00:10:09 ◼   ► The eyesight.

00:10:10 ◼   ► Is that, is that what that's called?

00:10:11 ◼   ► Eyesight.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:13 ◼   ► It seemed before today like an impoten- like an impossible thing to get to look right.

00:10:23 ◼   ► But in all of the imagery, and again, neither of us have actually seen, I've seen the hardware,

00:10:27 ◼   ► but not on, or like it like just playing like with no eyes.

00:10:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Uh, I from, from the photos from the videos, they've nailed that and that is ingenious.

00:10:39 ◼   ► I want to give some credit to Mark Gurman who kept by this when everybody else was like,

00:10:43 ◼   ► this seems unreasonable.

00:10:44 ◼   ► And we were talking about this again last night when we were, we were hanging out.

00:10:51 ◼   ► Um, I, I keep thinking, and I kept thinking in this last week that Apple, I really believe

00:10:58 ◼   ► that all those stories about the debate about does headset technology do VR and AR separate

00:11:04 ◼   ► you from the real world and separate you from people.

00:11:07 ◼   ► And if you look at this presentation, you can see the care that Apple took every step

00:11:12 ◼   ► of the way, including in the hardware to make a product that is harder, a lot harder to

00:11:20 ◼   ► accuse of not caring about human interaction and not caring about cutting people off from

00:11:26 ◼   ► the world.

00:11:27 ◼   ► And the screen is a part of that story.

00:11:29 ◼   ► The fact that they made it lenticular lens, which is if you ever bought like a baseball

00:11:34 ◼   ► card or a, or a collector's card of some kind where it's got the funny kind of, or a DVD

00:11:38 ◼   ► even where there's a, it's got the funny ridges so that when you move it, it looks like the

00:11:42 ◼   ► person is moving or they're in 3d.

00:11:45 ◼   ► That is what lenticular is.

00:11:47 ◼   ► And that's what the screen is.

00:11:48 ◼   ► And the idea there is if you're to their left, it's like you're looking in from the left.

00:11:53 ◼   ► And if you're to the right, it's like you're looking in from the right.

00:11:57 ◼   ► So it's giving this illusion of depth that it, that furthers the idea that this person

00:12:02 ◼   ► you're actually sort of seeing through, even though there's hardware in the way, it's like

00:12:06 ◼   ► you're seeing through ski goggles or something to their eyes.

00:12:09 ◼   ► And that's the effect that they want.

00:12:11 ◼   ► And the idea that it also serves, let's talk about Google glass for a second.

00:12:16 ◼   ► One of the big criticisms of Google glass was like, Oh, they may be videoing me.

00:12:19 ◼   ► They may be, you know, taking pictures of me.

00:12:21 ◼   ► And they had a whole story here, which is first off, if you see the eyes, they're looking

00:12:26 ◼   ► at you.

00:12:27 ◼   ► If you don't see that, they can't see you.

00:12:31 ◼   ► They also then had the idea that you could be in this environment, but then if somebody

00:12:35 ◼   ► walks up to you, you see them, which is an incredible moment.

00:12:39 ◼   ► Everybody was like gasping.

00:12:42 ◼   ► And so you ladies are the size of a mountain, right?

00:12:44 ◼   ► Like it's like she was looking out on like a vista of mountains or something like that.

00:12:48 ◼   ► And then like a colleague comes and sits down or a friend sits down and there's just like

00:12:51 ◼   ► sitting next to the mountain.

00:12:52 ◼   ► So you end up with this scenario and then they, the privacy angle, which I thought was

00:12:56 ◼   ► so good that, I mean, it's very typical Apple, but I thought it was really well done.

00:13:00 ◼   ► The idea that you have all these cameras that are looking out over your house.

00:13:04 ◼   ► Well, what is that?

00:13:05 ◼   ► Where does, where does that camera data go?

00:13:06 ◼   ► And the answer is nowhere.

00:13:08 ◼   ► We're not going to let it go anywhere.

00:13:09 ◼   ► And when you see people, you know, where does that go?

00:13:11 ◼   ► And the answer is nowhere.

00:13:13 ◼   ► We're not going to let that go anywhere.

00:13:14 ◼   ► And that's part of the story too.

00:13:15 ◼   ► But fundamentally, I think Apple is trying to approach this product from the most humane

00:13:21 ◼   ► standpoint possible, which is you should be able to see your surroundings when you want

00:13:26 ◼   ► to, and people should know what you're doing and it shouldn't cut you off.

00:13:29 ◼   ► Unless you totally want to be cut off.

00:13:31 ◼   ► I did like that moment where they're on an airplane and it's like goodbye.

00:13:34 ◼   ► Yeah, that was great.

00:13:36 ◼   ► But even on an airplane, I'd kind of like to know if somebody is trying to get my attention,

00:13:39 ◼   ► right?

00:13:40 ◼   ► What people come up to you.

00:13:41 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:13:42 ◼   ► So I think that they did a really good job of telling that story, which I was, I have

00:13:45 ◼   ► to say last night when we were talking about it, I felt like if I would bet anything, it

00:13:49 ◼   ► would have been that they would have done that.

00:13:51 ◼   ► And I think the story started immediately with Tim Cook and the way they're positioning

00:13:55 ◼   ► this product.

00:13:56 ◼   ► This is an AR product.

00:13:58 ◼   ► That is what this is.

00:13:59 ◼   ► It looks like a VR product.

00:14:00 ◼   ► It will work like a VR product if you want.

00:14:03 ◼   ► It will.

00:14:04 ◼   ► But for Apple, this is an AR product.

00:14:06 ◼   ► They leaned into augmented reality.

00:14:09 ◼   ► The majority of the demos are looking into an environment.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Every context was you're going to start in the real world.

00:14:15 ◼   ► You start the product in the real world.

00:14:18 ◼   ► You start any experience in the real world.

00:14:20 ◼   ► And then they would say, or you know, you can watch a movie in your house or you can

00:14:25 ◼   ► watch it on Mount Hood or in space or whatever.

00:14:27 ◼   ► Right?

00:14:28 ◼   ► And they say, that's great.

00:14:29 ◼   ► But they always start with, you know, you're working in your office and somebody comes

00:14:34 ◼   ► up to you or you can turn that dial.

00:14:36 ◼   ► You can turn that digital crown dial and turn your back on the world.

00:14:40 ◼   ► But you have to choose to exit the world.

00:14:45 ◼   ► And that again, without changing the hardware or software at all, you could make claims

00:14:52 ◼   ► that this is a VR product that has AR.

00:14:55 ◼   ► You could do that because it will do that.

00:14:57 ◼   ► We didn't even see any games that are pure VR experiences, which is like the number one

00:15:02 ◼   ► application for VR.

00:15:03 ◼   ► One of the presenters said during that part, this is just the start of the gaming story

00:15:07 ◼   ► for vision pro.

00:15:08 ◼   ► And I feel like that was like, Hey, yes, we have only shown you someone playing a PlayStation

00:15:13 ◼   ► with a PlayStation controller, which is not gaming for this device realistically.

00:15:17 ◼   ► So it feels extremely intentional to me that they really didn't want to show cutoff experiences

00:15:26 ◼   ► that weren't influenced by the real world.

00:15:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:29 ◼   ► Cause it was all like no fitness demo.

00:15:31 ◼   ► And like I turned to one underscore about this and he was surprised that maybe the second

00:15:35 ◼   ► time.

00:15:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:37 ◼   ► Right.

00:15:38 ◼   ► Maybe they'll show games then maybe they'll show fitness then when maybe people have had

00:15:41 ◼   ► more time to sit on it.

00:15:43 ◼   ► They will certainly have at least one more opportunity to introduce the world to this

00:15:47 ◼   ► product.

00:15:48 ◼   ► This is step one.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And I think that they've held some things back, not even necessarily for technical reasons,

00:15:54 ◼   ► but because they want to tell this very particular message about what this product represents

00:15:59 ◼   ► and it is connected to reality, not turning your back on reality.

00:16:04 ◼   ► Spatial computing.

00:16:05 ◼   ► That's the term that we're going to be very used to hearing.

00:16:09 ◼   ► That's the new term.

00:16:10 ◼   ► That's what this is.

00:16:12 ◼   ► And it's, you know, the, I was joking about this on connected, but I think we're here

00:16:16 ◼   ► is like the age of skeuomorphism is back like, but it's different now.

00:16:20 ◼   ► But the, the UI design has a tactility to it.

00:16:23 ◼   ► It looks like it's real, like it's physical things laid on top of each other.

00:16:26 ◼   ► Like even the app icons, there's like a distance between the background and the foreground.

00:16:31 ◼   ► There was a lot of that going on.

00:16:32 ◼   ► And this idea of we saw it, right?

00:16:35 ◼   ► Like you'd open an app and your other app would go to the left and you'd look over there

00:16:39 ◼   ► and you would be able to see your apps and like it's all kind of physically around you.

00:16:45 ◼   ► That's what this is.

00:16:47 ◼   ► They calling it the spatial computing device.

00:16:48 ◼   ► Like that's what vision OS is going to be.

00:16:51 ◼   ► Variable spatial computing.

00:16:53 ◼   ► This is, it's interesting, right?

00:16:55 ◼   ► Because I think a lot of this stuff has been maybe sort of second rate.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Like it's a, yeah, it's a game machine or it's a, it's a using a phone processor or

00:17:09 ◼   ► it's tethered to a, tethered to a game console, right?

00:17:14 ◼   ► In the case of the PSVR and Apple strength is saying, this is another mobile device.

00:17:21 ◼   ► This is a wearable spatial computer.

00:17:24 ◼   ► Apple understands computers.

00:17:25 ◼   ► They understand technology.

00:17:27 ◼   ► They understand wearables.

00:17:28 ◼   ► Like so what Apple wants you to do is think of this product in terms of Apple's strengths.

00:17:33 ◼   ► And I think that that's super smart.

00:17:34 ◼   ► I think that them spending time on having an M2 as well as a custom chip in order to

00:17:41 ◼   ► do all of the real time processing shows you that that's how you want this to feel.

00:17:46 ◼   ► Now I will also admit that as they kept saying that, um, the, you know, that part of this

00:17:52 ◼   ► product, I started to think the more they say this is a computer and it's a spatial

00:17:58 ◼   ► computer and it's using Apple's prowess.

00:18:01 ◼   ► I thought every time they do that, the price goes up.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Yes.

00:18:05 ◼   ► Right.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Because what did they call it?

00:18:07 ◼   ► The most advanced computer they've ever made or something like that?

00:18:11 ◼   ► It was the most advanced personal electronic device ever in the world ever.

00:18:15 ◼   ► I mean, and when they showed just the, all of the sensors and because, because powered

00:18:20 ◼   ► by the R1 chip, which is in combination with the M2 chip, I was kind of like, yeah, you

00:18:25 ◼   ► know, I can see that this looks like it's doing just an obscene amount of work.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Twelve cameras, five sensors, six microphones, uh, two 4k displays plus the external display.

00:18:38 ◼   ► And you know, this is what we all sort of were expecting, which is something that is

00:18:41 ◼   ► going to max out, um, what's possible because they want to show, I really believe this.

00:18:47 ◼   ► They want to show this technology and this entire concept of what a device can be in

00:18:50 ◼   ► the best light possible rather than it being something that's sort of like broken but affordable.

00:18:55 ◼   ► They want to show it first and foremost as amazing.

00:18:59 ◼   ► And then they'll deal with making it affordable down the road.

00:19:02 ◼   ► In fact, at several points they did say, this is the closest you'll ever get to Apple talking

00:19:06 ◼   ► about future products is this is the first step.

00:19:10 ◼   ► They said that several times.

00:19:11 ◼   ► It's clear in the name.

00:19:12 ◼   ► Why is pro in the name?

00:19:13 ◼   ► Right?

00:19:14 ◼   ► Like when there's no other thing, it's just this.

00:19:16 ◼   ► This is just the beginning.

00:19:17 ◼   ► Tim Cook says at one point it's a first step, but I will say every time they talked about

00:19:23 ◼   ► the technological prowess, I did think less and less likely that they were going to be

00:19:29 ◼   ► a price that was surprising us in a positive way.

00:19:32 ◼   ► And so when they dropped the price at $34.99, which is $500 more than anybody expected it

00:19:37 ◼   ► to be, even in the highest thing.

00:19:39 ◼   ► I loved the build up to that where you listed all of the things inside of it.

00:19:42 ◼   ► Like here we go.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:44 ◼   ► Right.

00:19:45 ◼   ► Where it's like, well look, but you're getting this cameras and these things and all that

00:19:48 ◼   ► and all that.

00:19:49 ◼   ► And you end up with this price.

00:19:50 ◼   ► Now that's an incredibly expensive thing.

00:19:52 ◼   ► I will say that the beauty of being in the reality distortion field as you and I were

00:19:57 ◼   ► today is you had the moment where they say $34.99 and you're like, I don't care what

00:20:01 ◼   ► it costs.

00:20:02 ◼   ► Just give it to me now.

00:20:04 ◼   ► I feel when they said that I was like, Oh, cause it is, it was more, but having watched

00:20:09 ◼   ► that presentation, I was kind of like, yeah, you know, I think I can see why.

00:20:14 ◼   ► And I kind of agree to do it this way.

00:20:17 ◼   ► I think they justified it.

00:20:18 ◼   ► I think that they're going to be lots of people who are going to say it's too expensive, quite

00:20:21 ◼   ► rightly.

00:20:22 ◼   ► And they're going to say a lot of people won't buy it.

00:20:24 ◼   ► Which we've heard that even Apple actually behind the scenes thinks that it's going to

00:20:28 ◼   ► be a relatively low volume product.

00:20:30 ◼   ► It's step one.

00:20:31 ◼   ► They're producing it in low volume.

00:20:32 ◼   ► It's US only.

00:20:33 ◼   ► I think exactly.

00:20:34 ◼   ► I think though it will be harder.

00:20:37 ◼   ► You can still make the case cause anybody can have a hot take, but I think it'll be

00:20:40 ◼   ► harder to make the case that the price is unjustified.

00:20:46 ◼   ► Because I think, I think Apple has one of the things they had to do today was say, here's

00:20:50 ◼   ► why it's like this.

00:20:52 ◼   ► It's because we spared no expense and we did all these things and we did this for a reason.

00:20:56 ◼   ► And so I think it's a perfectly reasonable analysis for somebody to say at that price,

00:21:01 ◼   ► they're not going to sell any of it.

00:21:03 ◼   ► It's going to be extremely limited and they're going to need to do better.

00:21:07 ◼   ► And I'm, I'm, I would bet that behind the scenes people at Apple would say, well, of

00:21:10 ◼   ► course this is the first step.

00:21:11 ◼   ► We were going to start here and set the bar.

00:21:14 ◼   ► But I think I would not agree with anybody who said, look at this thing.

00:21:20 ◼   ► I can't believe they priced it the way they did because that's a different argument, right?

00:21:24 ◼   ► It's not the, can it sell at that price?

00:21:27 ◼   ► It's is there enough technology in that product for you to understand that price?

00:21:31 ◼   ► And on that, on that level, yes, I do.

00:21:34 ◼   ► I get why it costs what it costs, even though I also kind of blanch at it and say, you know,

00:21:40 ◼   ► because and that'll be part of the developer question too.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Developers will have to say is how long am I going to have to do work on this platform

00:21:46 ◼   ► before I'll be able to make money?

00:21:48 ◼   ► Because if they're going to be only, you know, a few hundred thousand of these sold in the

00:21:52 ◼   ► first year, um, I'm going to have to, you know, you're, Apple's going to be asking them

00:21:56 ◼   ► to make an investment in the long haul in hope of that future return in two or three

00:22:01 ◼   ► or four years or five or longer.

00:22:03 ◼   ► Right.

00:22:04 ◼   ► You know, this is one of those things.

00:22:06 ◼   ► I was talking with our friend, Mike Sargent on clockwise.

00:22:08 ◼   ► We're both going to be on clockwise today as well.

00:22:10 ◼   ► So check out relay FM, uh, clockwise.

00:22:13 ◼   ► And we both looked at each other and we were thinking the same thing.

00:22:16 ◼   ► And he said, maybe it's because I'm here and I'm excited about this, but I feel like I

00:22:23 ◼   ► just watched the iPhone keynote from 2007 I want to feel that way because that's exciting

00:22:30 ◼   ► for me.

00:22:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:22:32 ◼   ► But I truly feel like I've seen something special today.

00:22:36 ◼   ► Like even, so we went to the Steve jobs theater and upstairs they had the max, we'll talk

00:22:40 ◼   ► about the max in a bit downstairs.

00:22:42 ◼   ► They had just the hardware on like a plinth and I took some photos and the photos looked

00:22:48 ◼   ► like the photos from Mac war 2007 where it's just, here's the hardware suspended and there

00:22:55 ◼   ► are just too many people to count taking photos.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Right.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Right.

00:23:01 ◼   ► And I guess the thing about the 2007 one, there wasn't cameras as such.

00:23:04 ◼   ► It was just people looking cause there was no iPhone to take the photo.

00:23:08 ◼   ► There were people there with traditional cameras, but it was mostly just today.

00:23:12 ◼   ► We should have taken a picture.

00:23:13 ◼   ► Right.

00:23:14 ◼   ► And there is, I think something about this.

00:23:18 ◼   ► I mean I believe in this general sense of technology anyway.

00:23:21 ◼   ► I have for awhile, I think that there is something interesting here in AR and VR, but what they

00:23:26 ◼   ► showed today, the package that they put together of what this thing does, the level of production

00:23:33 ◼   ► for the videos, the detail that they went into, it feels to me like we may look back

00:23:41 ◼   ► on this one in 10 years and be like, Oh man, that was, I mean that's what they're shooting

00:23:45 ◼   ► for.

00:23:46 ◼   ► Right.

00:23:47 ◼   ► It's going to be a historic day one way or another.

00:23:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:23:50 ◼   ► Um, I don't think there's going to be any in between either.

00:23:51 ◼   ► This is going to be the beginning of something big, which Apple thinks it is or it's not

00:23:55 ◼   ► at which point we're going to be like, wow, Apple really thought there was going to be

00:23:57 ◼   ► something there.

00:23:58 ◼   ► But um, so the moments where I, there were a few moments where the magic kind of fell

00:24:06 ◼   ► apart for me.

00:24:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Um, where in the attempt to show how useful this thing is, cause one of the challenges

00:24:15 ◼   ► is how, how is this useful?

00:24:17 ◼   ► Why would you use it?

00:24:18 ◼   ► Right.

00:24:19 ◼   ► It's trying to explain, I think the fundamental question, everybody I talked to when I say

00:24:21 ◼   ► Apple's doing a headset, they ask, well, why, why, why, why would I do it?

00:24:26 ◼   ► Why would I use it?

00:24:27 ◼   ► Why would I buy one?

00:24:28 ◼   ► And they made some very good points.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Uh, when they showed Microsoft office apps running, Dan Morin was sitting next to me

00:24:34 ◼   ► and he had a, he laughed out loud and I thought, well, I want to do this.

00:24:38 ◼   ► It is, it is kind of like, well, when you go to, when you go to Microsoft, but a place

00:24:42 ◼   ► where it lost me and I have, I think there's a reason for it.

00:24:46 ◼   ► One of the places that it lost me was in the, um, we created this amazing, uh, 3d photo

00:24:53 ◼   ► thing so that you, so that when your child's having its birthday party, you can wear a

00:24:58 ◼   ► headset and take 3d images of your child doing it.

00:25:02 ◼   ► And there were a few other things that were kind of like that where you're like, well,

00:25:05 ◼   ► you could do that, but why now I will make a fearless projection here, which is that

00:25:09 ◼   ► 3d camera technology is coming to the iPhone because how would you not, cause that's what

00:25:14 ◼   ► you want to do is take 3d video and photos on your iPhone and then watch them on the

00:25:21 ◼   ► vision.

00:25:22 ◼   ► The idea about having a 3d camera on the thing is smart.

00:25:25 ◼   ► You can take pictures when you have it on a thing happens to take a photo, but there

00:25:28 ◼   ► was a dystopian moment of here's the birthday party, which means you are wearing this thing

00:25:36 ◼   ► at the birthday party.

00:25:37 ◼   ► Like that is, and I know why, I know why they did it because clearly there are several shots

00:25:42 ◼   ► in this thing where people are walking around doing stuff in the real world.

00:25:48 ◼   ► And that is sending the message that this is not a thing that you put on your head and

00:25:52 ◼   ► then you stay still and don't interact with the real world.

00:25:55 ◼   ► They want people to think this is mixed reality, but that went a little too far.

00:26:00 ◼   ► Um, and I think that there were a few other moments like that that looked to me like trying

00:26:07 ◼   ► a little too hard to sell.

00:26:09 ◼   ► And the truth is that some of these things won't be the reasons people want it and then

00:26:12 ◼   ► others will be and they're taking their shot.

00:26:14 ◼   ► But there are definitely a few moments where I thought, well, it's cool that it does this,

00:26:18 ◼   ► but there are lots of other ways to do this.

00:26:20 ◼   ► I do appreciate that and applaud them for the idea that they have a vision of extended

00:26:26 ◼   ► workspaces, whether you're at work or traveling, where, you know, that moment, the moment that

00:26:32 ◼   ► Federico I know just lost it, um, was because he was sitting right behind me right next

00:26:37 ◼   ► to you, um, was, and Dan, Dan reacted this way too.

00:26:41 ◼   ► It was very funny.

00:26:42 ◼   ► The crowd really reacted was when you put the Mac laptop down on the table and the screen

00:26:46 ◼   ► goes out and a giant screen appears floating above it.

00:26:49 ◼   ► That is just super cool.

00:26:52 ◼   ► It's known reason to do it that way, but I just love it that way.

00:26:55 ◼   ► That's right.

00:26:56 ◼   ► Well that's, that's like, just look at your Mac and then there's a huge screen in front

00:26:58 ◼   ► of you.

00:26:59 ◼   ► And then the, what I really liked, I'm very keen to know if they're going to allow you

00:27:04 ◼   ► to have multiple Mac screens that you could, right.

00:27:07 ◼   ► But what they did do, which like you've got your Mac and your vision, OAS apps on either

00:27:12 ◼   ► side and they can all interact with each other.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Which can be iPhone and iPad apps.

00:27:16 ◼   ► Which is, I mean, that will work fantastically.

00:27:18 ◼   ► The vision here is that instead of having to have a bunch of big displays, huh, you

00:27:22 ◼   ► can have a bunch of virtual displays and you can do that at your office.

00:27:26 ◼   ► You could do that at a hotel room.

00:27:28 ◼   ► You can do that wherever.

00:27:30 ◼   ► And I think that that's really interesting.

00:27:32 ◼   ► We haven't even talked about the interaction model, which I think is also very interesting.

00:27:34 ◼   ► They're scanning your eyes.

00:27:36 ◼   ► They're doing eye tracking.

00:27:37 ◼   ► That's good for foveated rendering where they don't, they can focus the highest resolution

00:27:44 ◼   ► stuff which is very clever.

00:27:46 ◼   ► But also it knows where you look.

00:27:48 ◼   ► By the way, that was a great part of the privacy thing.

00:27:50 ◼   ► Cause imagine TikTok, like I don't like TikTok because it knows when I stop on a video for

00:27:54 ◼   ► five seconds.

00:27:55 ◼   ► Imagine if TikTok knew exactly what images on the video drew your attention.

00:28:00 ◼   ► They're reading your mind, it's gross.

00:28:02 ◼   ► And they're like, no, we don't do that.

00:28:03 ◼   ► There's a totally different system.

00:28:05 ◼   ► I appreciated that.

00:28:06 ◼   ► But they also showed people curled up on a couch and they're looking at stuff and they're

00:28:10 ◼   ► just doing very subtle gestures with their hands because they're doing a click.

00:28:13 ◼   ► Cause it can, it knows where you're looking and you're making some very limited gestures.

00:28:17 ◼   ► You know, there's like a scroll gesture and a click gesture and a, and like a pinch to

00:28:21 ◼   ► zoom gesture.

00:28:22 ◼   ► And they're very simple.

00:28:24 ◼   ► And I, I like how that looks, how it works in practice.

00:28:27 ◼   ► I don't know how comfortable it's going to be.

00:28:30 ◼   ► So like, if I feel like the gestures still looked more than an iPhone, you know, if you're

00:28:37 ◼   ► scrolling through an iPhone, you scroll up your iPhone, you just do it with your thumb,

00:28:41 ◼   ► right?

00:28:42 ◼   ► There was a lot of like movement of the hand and I, and I'm not convinced about the, the

00:28:48 ◼   ► like how that will feel to do.

00:28:52 ◼   ► But what I like is that, that you have the ability to connect peripherals to the, to

00:28:57 ◼   ► the thing.

00:28:58 ◼   ► You can use a track pad too.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Basically I'm thinking if I'm working, I would prefer a keyboard and track pad.

00:29:03 ◼   ► Even the gaming scenario, they went, they went to it right away.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Right.

00:29:07 ◼   ► Which is look, if you want to play a game, here's a game pad.

00:29:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:10 ◼   ► But that's, yes.

00:29:12 ◼   ► I'm I'm.

00:29:13 ◼   ► I liked it in that sense.

00:29:15 ◼   ► That sense that it's like, you're not limited here, but we're going to start you with simple

00:29:19 ◼   ► gestures.

00:29:20 ◼   ► So that was playing a game on a fake screen.

00:29:25 ◼   ► I'm, I still remain intrigued and unconvinced about full VR gaming with just hand tracking

00:29:35 ◼   ► and so we'll see how that goes.

00:29:37 ◼   ► And eye tracking, but yes.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:39 ◼   ► But like the PlayStation VR too has eye tracking and it's one of the things people like about

00:29:43 ◼   ► it a lot, but they still have the controllers because you need buttons for all of these

00:29:47 ◼   ► games.

00:29:48 ◼   ► It might be and as it should be, and because VR needs to break out of that model anyway,

00:29:52 ◼   ► so it can, cause at the moment a lot of VR games are just the same.

00:29:56 ◼   ► And so this hand tracking, eye tracking combo might make some developers kind of pull out

00:30:01 ◼   ► of their comfort zones, but realistically people are going to want Beat Saber on this

00:30:06 ◼   ► and maybe they could do hand tracking Beat Saber.

00:30:08 ◼   ► I don't know, but you know, like there are going to be things like that.

00:30:11 ◼   ► Pick your, your special Bluetooth saber accessory at the Apple store.

00:30:15 ◼   ► But if that's what they do, I think that's fine.

00:30:18 ◼   ► Like if they, if they ultimately end up working with a company to create an MFI and hand controller,

00:30:26 ◼   ► I think that, so we'll see.

00:30:28 ◼   ► We do need to move on.

00:30:29 ◼   ► I do just want to touch on one last thing, which is the word persona for the 3D thing.

00:30:34 ◼   ► Digital persona, yes.

00:30:35 ◼   ► I didn't want to talk about that.

00:30:36 ◼   ► Not sold on that term.

00:30:39 ◼   ► It doesn't feel, I feel like they almost didn't want to call it an avatar.

00:30:43 ◼   ► I feel like that was what you would want to call it, but they can't.

00:30:46 ◼   ► So they called it, well they could.

00:30:47 ◼   ► A persona.

00:30:48 ◼   ► So they called it the digital persona.

00:30:50 ◼   ► That's going to be interesting.

00:30:51 ◼   ► I thought it looked incredibly clever, but the truth is you were literally having your

00:30:56 ◼   ► face 3D scanned and then a digital persona version of you is created.

00:31:01 ◼   ► I feel like it's going to be some weird stuff.

00:31:04 ◼   ► I feel like that is going to be, the demo that they showed, it looked very 1.0, which

00:31:10 ◼   ► is what it is.

00:31:11 ◼   ► And I can imagine that will only get better, but looked in like just the fact that if they're

00:31:16 ◼   ► able to do that and it works the way it does in that keynote, that is unbelievable that

00:31:20 ◼   ► they're able to do that from the cameras on this device because there's no camera actually

00:31:24 ◼   ► looking at you.

00:31:25 ◼   ► And I know it's like you use the, you scan your face and then it's using movement to

00:31:29 ◼   ► try and work out what's going on.

00:31:31 ◼   ► To match what your actual expression is.

00:31:32 ◼   ► I'm intrigued what that's going to be like.

00:31:34 ◼   ► I feel like that's going to be the thing that's going to see the most progression of the time.

00:31:40 ◼   ► And I think that there's a real question about what do you want your digital persona to represent?

00:31:45 ◼   ► Because right in this, especially because you're talking about work and FaceTimes and things

00:31:48 ◼   ► like that, you want it to represent you, but there's also not only do you not necessarily

00:31:54 ◼   ► want it to represent exactly you, but you may want it to represent you in a particular

00:31:58 ◼   ► different state.

00:31:59 ◼   ► Like I have a friend who shall remain nameless, who every time we do a zoom call, she uses

00:32:08 ◼   ► the zoom lipstick and the zoom eyebrows because she doesn't want to be represented as she

00:32:15 ◼   ► is in the moment.

00:32:16 ◼   ► She wants to be represented, augmented in a way.

00:32:21 ◼   ► And the zoom lets you do that, which is great.

00:32:23 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:32:24 ◼   ► But like, that's, those are some of my questions for this persona is what if I have different

00:32:28 ◼   ► personas in different places or I want my persona to not look like I actually look.

00:32:33 ◼   ► And that was not the focus of this, which is fine.

00:32:36 ◼   ► And it is a 1.0, but I think that it's interesting.

00:32:38 ◼   ► And also I will say one way you get out of the uncanny valley is to make the persona

00:32:43 ◼   ► less like you.

00:32:46 ◼   ► And so people may, people may actually prefer to be more Memoji like.

00:32:51 ◼   ► And there may be, like, we don't know, right?

00:32:53 ◼   ► There may be the opposite.

00:32:54 ◼   ► And there probably is the opposite of just saying, I want to be an elephant or whatever.

00:32:59 ◼   ► FaceTime calls now.

00:33:02 ◼   ► Why would you not also be able to do it there?

00:33:03 ◼   ► But you also have, and you know, realistically, if you're going to show one of them today,

00:33:08 ◼   ► you'd show this one because it is, it is fascinating from a technological perspective.

00:33:12 ◼   ► Memoji, we know what that means.

00:33:15 ◼   ► It's like, how do you do?

00:33:16 ◼   ► Because here, what they were doing is solving the problem of, and we all thought it because

00:33:19 ◼   ► they didn't show it until later, which is, isn't it great?

00:33:22 ◼   ► You're having a FaceTime conversation.

00:33:23 ◼   ► It's like, well, what are they seeing?

00:33:25 ◼   ► Because you have this thing on your face and you don't have a camera pointed at you.

00:33:28 ◼   ► And as they said, if you did it, you would have this thing on your face.

00:33:31 ◼   ► So how do they do that?

00:33:32 ◼   ► And then when they show it, you're like, actually you're kind of relieved, right?

00:33:36 ◼   ► Because it's like, oh, it's not like a picture of my, up my nose or something like that.

00:33:40 ◼   ► It looks like me kind of.

00:33:43 ◼   ► And that was the, that was the right answer to give here, but there's gotta be more to

00:33:46 ◼   ► dig into there.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Speaking of more to dig into, we are obviously going to spend weeks talking about this thing.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Months.

00:33:55 ◼   ► And there will be much more information.

00:33:56 ◼   ► Like, I mean, just like over the next few weeks, I think there is going, I would imagine

00:34:00 ◼   ► the show will be pretty much dominated by talking about this.

00:34:03 ◼   ► So we'll pause it today because there's more to talk about.

00:34:06 ◼   ► There is more.

00:34:07 ◼   ► But this episode is brought to you in part by Notion.

00:34:11 ◼   ► Project management tools are supposed to help you move faster and stay organized.

00:34:15 ◼   ► If you're still jumping between 50 tabs just to get your work done, maybe you haven't find

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00:34:57 ◼   ► on deadline.

00:34:58 ◼   ► I'm very excited about this.

00:35:00 ◼   ► I'm starting to look into this with some Cortex brand stuff.

00:35:03 ◼   ► Notion Project looks really fascinating.

00:35:05 ◼   ► Notion is super customizable.

00:35:07 ◼   ► Everyone has preferences for how they like to view their projects, so you can view everything

00:35:10 ◼   ► in the way that works best for you, whether that's a timeline, a table, or a Kanban board.

00:35:15 ◼   ► There's powerful filtering and automation features, so you can work exactly the way

00:35:18 ◼   ► that you want.

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00:35:24 ◼   ► like summarizing meeting notes or finding next steps, freeing you up to do the deep work.

00:35:30 ◼   ► I've actually been playing around with Notion AI to help me with podcast episode descriptions

00:35:34 ◼   ► and social media posts to promote shows, because I know the things I want to say.

00:35:39 ◼   ► I'm just not sure how to most succinctly say them.

00:35:41 ◼   ► So you can ask Notion AI to help you, and it puts it all together for me with all the

00:35:45 ◼   ► correct grammar, which I do struggle with sometimes.

00:35:48 ◼   ► I think that these tools can be really useful as additions to the work that we're already

00:35:53 ◼   ► doing to fill in gaps that would otherwise take up a ton of time.

00:35:56 ◼   ► Usually I'd write the description, I'd send it to one of my co-hosts, they would look

00:36:00 ◼   ► at it, well Notion AI can help me with that instead.

00:36:03 ◼   ► Do your most efficient work with Notion projects.

00:36:06 ◼   ► You can try it for free today at notion.com/upgrade.

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00:36:18 ◼   ► Thanks to Notion for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:36:22 ◼   ► We're gonna, I think, lightning round the operating systems.

00:36:25 ◼   ► Alright, let's do it.

00:36:26 ◼   ► So just as an overall thought, if this WWDC stopped before Vision Pro, that's a good WWDC.

00:36:35 ◼   ► I felt like there was a lot here, way more than expected.

00:36:39 ◼   ► When they started with, "Hey, we've got some updates to the phone app," like, "Wait, what?

00:36:42 ◼   ► I wasn't expecting this."

00:36:44 ◼   ► And there was just some really interesting stuff, and you could see the progression in

00:36:47 ◼   ► some of these things in the new AirDrop feature, which is namedrop, which is a fantastic name.

00:36:54 ◼   ► It took me two minutes.

00:36:55 ◼   ► I was like, "Oh, I get it.

00:36:57 ◼   ► I'm looking at the poster contact thing."

00:36:59 ◼   ► This seems to all be coalescing from lock screens.

00:37:03 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:37:04 ◼   ► These are a lot of features that came from lock screens that are moving on.

00:37:07 ◼   ► I think the idea that you...

00:37:10 ◼   ► And it's also coalescing from our custom messages images, right?

00:37:15 ◼   ► You set a message.

00:37:16 ◼   ► You set an image for yourself, and that's what your friends see.

00:37:19 ◼   ► I like it that if I call someone, and I assume if I'm not in their phone book, they will

00:37:26 ◼   ► now get the image of me and my name.

00:37:28 ◼   ► That's how I understood that to be.

00:37:30 ◼   ► I'm not sure if that happens if you're not in their phone book.

00:37:34 ◼   ► You may have to add them as a contact.

00:37:36 ◼   ► And you can also...

00:37:37 ◼   ► Because remember, it's somebody else sending you something, right?

00:37:40 ◼   ► So they may be wanting to protect you from bad photos that are being pranked to you.

00:37:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:47 ◼   ► So I think...

00:37:48 ◼   ► But if it's in your contacts, and then they have the control at that point, you allow

00:37:52 ◼   ► them in, and now...

00:37:55 ◼   ► So you put on a Santa hat or something, because it's Christmas time, and then call me, and

00:38:00 ◼   ► I'll see that.

00:38:01 ◼   ► And the whole contact card too is nicer.

00:38:03 ◼   ► It's not me choosing how to represent you.

00:38:07 ◼   ► You get to choose how you represent yourself.

00:38:09 ◼   ► And that means everybody who calls you, who's in your contacts, has this...

00:38:12 ◼   ► Unless you say, "I don't wanna use that," they have their own custom thing that's very

00:38:17 ◼   ► clever.

00:38:18 ◼   ► I love the idea that...

00:38:19 ◼   ► And just follow me here.

00:38:21 ◼   ► Remember Visual Voice Mail?

00:38:22 ◼   ► That was one of those key features in the original iPhone thing?

00:38:26 ◼   ► Well, with iOS 17, your phone rings and you wanna send it to Voice Mail.

00:38:32 ◼   ► You tap Send to Voice Mail.

00:38:34 ◼   ► And what happens is they don't go to Voice Mail.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Your phone answers, plays your Voice Mail message, beeps, begins recording and transcribing

00:38:44 ◼   ► what they say, shows it on the screen, and at any point, if you wanna pick it up, you

00:38:50 ◼   ► tap the button and say, "Oh no, I'm actually here," like back when we had answering machines

00:38:55 ◼   ► back 20 years ago.

00:38:57 ◼   ► And that's all happening on device.

00:38:59 ◼   ► There's no carrier support required.

00:39:01 ◼   ► It's all just happening on your iPhone.

00:39:04 ◼   ► So smart.

00:39:05 ◼   ► And how many times have...

00:39:07 ◼   ► I don't know about you.

00:39:09 ◼   ► I am constantly getting phone calls where I'm like, "I don't know what that is.

00:39:12 ◼   ► I sent it to Voice Mail."

00:39:13 ◼   ► And then I look at the Voice Mail transcription and I think, "Oh, I should have answered it."

00:39:18 ◼   ► And this solves that problem.

00:39:19 ◼   ► I've absolutely had that problem and it totally solves it.

00:39:22 ◼   ► So I'm assuming that that kind of dictation is being done with the same new tech that's

00:39:28 ◼   ► in the dictation and the keyboard, where Apple dropped that they are using a transformer

00:39:33 ◼   ► machine learning model, which is the transformer is the T in GPT.

00:39:38 ◼   ► So they are adopting this stuff for autocorrect, for this new transcription stuff.

00:39:46 ◼   ► That was a big surprise to me that they just, "Hey, we're using transformable models now

00:39:50 ◼   ► too."

00:39:51 ◼   ► And it looked like a thing that I've really wished from autocorrect for a while is more

00:39:57 ◼   ► accurate for sentence changing that if I type something out and there's clearly a word,

00:40:07 ◼   ► the tense is incorrect for the rest of the sentence, or I've left maybe an apostrophe

00:40:12 ◼   ► out, but then when the rest of the sentence...

00:40:13 ◼   ► You know I actually meant to say where rather than where, and you could now go back in and

00:40:18 ◼   ► change that for me.

00:40:19 ◼   ► Word two seemed to be one of these two things when you typed it, but now that I've gotten

00:40:23 ◼   ► to the end of the sentence, I know which one it is.

00:40:27 ◼   ► And so I'm really...

00:40:28 ◼   ► One, I also want autocorrect to be better because I rely on it and make so many mistakes.

00:40:33 ◼   ► And now it's going to be doing autocorrection that's personal on device for you, which is

00:40:36 ◼   ► so good, right?

00:40:37 ◼   ► Because one of the big failings in autocorrect lately is that they've been using the masses

00:40:43 ◼   ► of...

00:40:44 ◼   ► Differential privacy.

00:40:45 ◼   ► ...of humanity and the way that they write things, which is, I mean it's nice, it's better

00:40:50 ◼   ► maybe than nothing, but nothing's going to be better than the way you write.

00:40:54 ◼   ► And that's how the stories back in the day of like, there would be basically what felt

00:40:58 ◼   ► like these bugs in everyone's phones where some kind of spelling error would just propagate.

00:41:03 ◼   ► It would just get in there.

00:41:04 ◼   ► And there were times they had to put out operating system updates to change a spelling mistake.

00:41:08 ◼   ► Hats off to Craig Federighi for actually saying ducking.

00:41:11 ◼   ► That's just so...

00:41:12 ◼   ► That got a big laugh and was a big surprise.

00:41:14 ◼   ► So good, so good.

00:41:15 ◼   ► So I think that's really great and that voicemail feature is brilliant because it serves a need.

00:41:20 ◼   ► I didn't think new phone app features was on my bingo card, but like, yeah, using essentially

00:41:25 ◼   ► being able to build a lock screen like thing for your contact.

00:41:29 ◼   ► So when you call your friends or family, they see you represented as you want.

00:41:34 ◼   ► That's such a cool, clever idea.

00:41:36 ◼   ► I got two things in messages that I wanted so bad and gave up on wishing for.

00:41:42 ◼   ► All emoji as stickers and emoji as tap backs.

00:41:46 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

00:41:47 ◼   ► And I'm fascinated by, and I actually wonder how much of this has to do with why do you

00:41:52 ◼   ► choose the sticker pipeline for this instead of the tap back pipeline?

00:41:57 ◼   ► Because I thought they would always just eventually add emoji to tap backs and that's not what

00:42:02 ◼   ► they did.

00:42:03 ◼   ► They added stickers to tap backs and they added all emoji to stickers.

00:42:07 ◼   ► Same result.

00:42:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they're so proud of that object occlusion thing where you can pull someone

00:42:12 ◼   ► out and now, rest in peace, Sticker Drop, an amazing app that was an iMessage app that's

00:42:18 ◼   ► come in Sherlock now because Apple now let you add stickers and it's so much easier to

00:42:22 ◼   ► do because, and also you can make animated ones from live photos.

00:42:25 ◼   ► I'm very excited about these features, but yeah, it is odd that they didn't just, but

00:42:30 ◼   ► to be fair, this kind of just feels like a, wouldn't it be good if we had stickers in

00:42:34 ◼   ► tap backs to, next time we're just going to move forward and just bring it all together.

00:42:39 ◼   ► And I'm very excited about this.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I think if you had to choose, you would choose this over just emoji picking because

00:42:46 ◼   ► this is more flexible.

00:42:48 ◼   ► It's anything as a tap back.

00:42:49 ◼   ► I love that.

00:42:50 ◼   ► And I can imagine that it kind of started and it's like, oh, let's just do the whole

00:42:53 ◼   ► thing.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Because if we do this now, are we going to end up doing this later on?

00:42:56 ◼   ► Like adding stickers to tap, let's just make emoji stickers, stickers, tap back.

00:43:00 ◼   ► I just liked that I could use emoji as stickers.

00:43:03 ◼   ► I've wanted that since the beginning of the stickers, right?

00:43:05 ◼   ► It's just like, I like this, but sometimes I just want to have an emoji and now they're

00:43:09 ◼   ► all there and I'm very excited about that.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Let's talk about standby for on iOS.

00:43:18 ◼   ► It's an interesting feature.

00:43:19 ◼   ► What I liked about this feature, this is the, you know, you put your phone in landscape,

00:43:23 ◼   ► uses the always on display and you can show clock or widgets.

00:43:26 ◼   ► It's like nightstand on the Apple watch.

00:43:29 ◼   ► The clock images that they use were beautiful.

00:43:32 ◼   ► Like that kind of like old school alarm clock vibes.

00:43:35 ◼   ► You can choose.

00:43:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:37 ◼   ► I'm very excited about the way that looked.

00:43:38 ◼   ► And I don't know if you caught it, but if you use different mag safe chargers in different

00:43:41 ◼   ► places, since the mag safe chargers all have their own unique ID, um, your settings, um,

00:43:46 ◼   ► stay the same.

00:43:48 ◼   ► That is provided that you're using, I assume a mag safe charger, not in a magnetic wireless

00:43:53 ◼   ► charger, right?

00:43:54 ◼   ► No, I believe it's, I believe it's mag safe.

00:43:57 ◼   ► Although I don't know.

00:43:58 ◼   ► I mean, it depends on what the, what the cheese standard is and if there's like an ID number

00:44:03 ◼   ► that gets passed when you do that.

00:44:04 ◼   ► I think that might be a mag safe thing.

00:44:06 ◼   ► So it may just be Apple, but the idea there is that if you've got a mag safe in the kitchen

00:44:09 ◼   ► and a mag safe in the bedroom and you want them to behave differently in the two different

00:44:12 ◼   ► places, they will.

00:44:13 ◼   ► Yep.

00:44:14 ◼   ► So this standby and a FaceTime on TV OS, this is all leading towards a home pod of a screen.

00:44:23 ◼   ► This is all leading toward home pod with a screen and Apple TV that is with a camera.

00:44:29 ◼   ► Both of those things.

00:44:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:31 ◼   ► The moment that they announced the, the, um, the stand feature, Dan Morin and I who both

00:44:37 ◼   ► written extensively about smart assistants in the kitchen and things like that.

00:44:42 ◼   ► We both just looked at each other immediately.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Cause it's like, it's when they started going into the details of like, Oh, and you can

00:44:47 ◼   ► scroll down and there are witches and then you can, and the moment, the real clarity

00:44:50 ◼   ► moment was, and then you can ask Siri things and it will show them to you on the screen.

00:44:55 ◼   ► It's like, well, they've built it now.

00:44:57 ◼   ► They've literally built a smart assistant.

00:44:59 ◼   ► No longer need to say, Hey, it's just, yeah.

00:45:01 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:45:02 ◼   ► Um, you know, the software now completely exists to build a standalone smart assistant

00:45:08 ◼   ► that can live in your kitchen.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Multiple timers and live in a magical time, like a medical age or something that, that

00:45:14 ◼   ► was very funny.

00:45:15 ◼   ► Well, I hear the time makes the sun go around.

00:45:17 ◼   ► So that's when I heard, I heard about that today.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Interactive widgets.

00:45:22 ◼   ► This is a thing that I feel like I know exists now, but I have no idea about what is possible.

00:45:28 ◼   ► So I can tell you.

00:45:29 ◼   ► Um, the idea is, yeah, see, I picked this stuff up while you were having coffee.

00:45:36 ◼   ► Interactive widgets are meant to be, uh, limited.

00:45:39 ◼   ► I think a calculator widget, sorry James, it's not going to happen.

00:45:44 ◼   ► But there are some fundamental things that you can do.

00:45:47 ◼   ► So like they showed the flashcards.

00:45:48 ◼   ► So I think the idea of toggling informational states is probably in there.

00:45:53 ◼   ► I'm not a hundred percent on that, but the idea that if you've got a widget that's got

00:45:57 ◼   ► kind of like two frames, you could go back and forth between them.

00:46:01 ◼   ► Uh, because that's sort of what's implied by the flashcard thing.

00:46:05 ◼   ► And then the idea that you can, um, very simple things like check a box.

00:46:10 ◼   ► So check off a reminder.

00:46:13 ◼   ► That's the kind of stuff that's intended here is very simple interactions for very basic

00:46:19 ◼   ► things.

00:46:20 ◼   ► Um, interactive with a widget from your internet, complete a to do play a pause or song or a

00:46:26 ◼   ► song, like the thing that I'm excited about, right?

00:46:28 ◼   ► Like I use Timery and now I'd be able to start and stop a timer without ever opening the

00:46:32 ◼   ► app.

00:46:33 ◼   ► Right.

00:46:34 ◼   ► Because the widget will just start and stop it.

00:46:35 ◼   ► Because there's no text entry necessarily required and if you set it up that way and

00:46:39 ◼   ► so that's going to be fantastic.

00:46:41 ◼   ► The dice by Pico could be interactive.

00:46:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Me and James were actually talking about this beforehand and I said to him that you're probably

00:46:47 ◼   ► more likely to have that, right?

00:46:48 ◼   ► Whereas like you can, you compress and you'll get the Apple just provide you a number rather

00:46:53 ◼   ► than being able to type it.

00:46:54 ◼   ► I just need it all going to be like a keyboard.

00:46:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:57 ◼   ► There's no keyboard.

00:46:58 ◼   ► There's no keyboard for sure.

00:46:59 ◼   ► But I'm excited about that.

00:47:00 ◼   ► It's good.

00:47:01 ◼   ► It makes widgets are good.

00:47:02 ◼   ► Right?

00:47:03 ◼   ► Like I'm sure there's some grumpy person out there who doesn't say so, but like I think

00:47:07 ◼   ► of the things that Apple has introduced in the last few years.

00:47:09 ◼   ► These new widgets are very good.

00:47:10 ◼   ► They're really nice.

00:47:11 ◼   ► I didn't want them to, I really liked the way they look and I didn't want them to go

00:47:15 ◼   ► too far back to what they were.

00:47:17 ◼   ► So I think just something in the middle is a really nice touch.

00:47:20 ◼   ► The journaling app looks fantastic.

00:47:22 ◼   ► Great.

00:47:23 ◼   ► Like I like the way it looks.

00:47:26 ◼   ► I think they've, they've put a lot of thought into it.

00:47:28 ◼   ► I'm super happy that there's an API so people can give their information to the journaling

00:47:33 ◼   ► app.

00:47:34 ◼   ► Right.

00:47:35 ◼   ► I wish there was, I doubt there is, I wish there was an API that went the other way.

00:47:37 ◼   ► It doesn't go the other way.

00:47:38 ◼   ► So, so other journaling apps can use that information, but other, Oh yeah.

00:47:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:43 ◼   ► So this is it.

00:47:44 ◼   ► Other journaling apps can use that information.

00:47:46 ◼   ► What you can't do is have apps contribute things into what's known by the journaling

00:47:51 ◼   ► app.

00:47:52 ◼   ► But that's fantastic.

00:47:53 ◼   ► But yes, so if you're day one, if you're day one, you should be able to use this API and

00:47:57 ◼   ► get the same stuff that the journaling app is getting from Apple.

00:47:59 ◼   ► I'm over the moon happy about that.

00:48:01 ◼   ► Cause I just think it's the right way to be.

00:48:03 ◼   ► I think it would have been really mean.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Almost everything they announced today, if you notice, they're like, it does this great

00:48:10 ◼   ► thing.

00:48:11 ◼   ► And there's an API for developers.

00:48:12 ◼   ► I mean, this is a developer conference.

00:48:14 ◼   ► That's the way to do it.

00:48:15 ◼   ► There's like an API and areas, right?

00:48:16 ◼   ► Like an API to offer this information up to the journaling app.

00:48:21 ◼   ► So like, so like you can say like, Hey, I make a podcast app and I can say to the API,

00:48:26 ◼   ► like, Oh, someone listened to this podcast.

00:48:28 ◼   ► No, it's the other, it's the other way.

00:48:31 ◼   ► It's the other way.

00:48:32 ◼   ► So I don't believe this is my understanding.

00:48:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:34 ◼   ► Don't ask me how I know that, that like apps can't contribute items to your day of things

00:48:40 ◼   ► that have happened.

00:48:41 ◼   ► Also the rumor that it was going to be all about proximity and stuff.

00:48:43 ◼   ► That's also not true.

00:48:44 ◼   ► Um, so how does it know when it says it like you shared the day with interactions with

00:48:48 ◼   ► people like texts or, or, uh, phone calls or I believe their faces in photos.

00:48:55 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:56 ◼   ► Well, that's cool.

00:48:57 ◼   ► That's better than the fine line thing.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Cause I thought it might, it was a bit weird.

00:49:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:01 ◼   ► I really want to know more about it, but like I, I like what they're doing.

00:49:03 ◼   ► I liked that there's prompts.

00:49:05 ◼   ► I liked that there is, uh, there is a focus on mental health of it.

00:49:09 ◼   ► I like the way that they've positioned this app.

00:49:13 ◼   ► I think it looks very good.

00:49:14 ◼   ► The icons are very pretty.

00:49:15 ◼   ► This is one that I want to spend more time digging into on iOS is like, I'm really, really

00:49:21 ◼   ► excited.

00:49:22 ◼   ► One of the things I'm most excited about is playing around with that.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Cause I just think it's like a cool thing that they did.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Lighting round.

00:49:26 ◼   ► Yep.

00:49:27 ◼   ► iPadOS, we have lock screen customization.

00:49:29 ◼   ► We have widgets.

00:49:30 ◼   ► That's great.

00:49:31 ◼   ► Yep.

00:49:32 ◼   ► More flexibility with stage manager who had that one on their bingo card seriously is

00:49:35 ◼   ► a thing that was going to happen this time.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:37 ◼   ► Well, unfortunately my bingo card was lid closed, which didn't happen, but I will point

00:49:40 ◼   ► out that you can't do lid closed unless you have something like support for the webcam

00:49:44 ◼   ► and the external display.

00:49:45 ◼   ► So that's all got to come before.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Which they now have.

00:49:47 ◼   ► So maybe we're on the, on the board to getting to lid closed, clamshell mode eventually.

00:49:51 ◼   ► Also, yeah, the more flexibility thing, the idea that you can, for example, my complaint

00:49:56 ◼   ► was always I tend to work with one window in the center.

00:49:59 ◼   ► That's my primary window that I'm working in when I'm writing a story.

00:50:01 ◼   ► And then I like to have some other windows kind of off to the side.

00:50:05 ◼   ► And um, you kind of couldn't do that with stage manager before cause they would say,

00:50:08 ◼   ► no, that's unbalanced.

00:50:09 ◼   ► Let's just put it two up.

00:50:10 ◼   ► I don't want it to up.

00:50:12 ◼   ► And now you're going to be able to do that.

00:50:13 ◼   ► I don't trust stage manager until I try it now.

00:50:15 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:50:16 ◼   ► Because it looked perfect the first time.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Sure.

00:50:18 ◼   ► We were, we were doing Federico and I were doing like slow-mos of the animations trying

00:50:23 ◼   ► to understand what we were seeing.

00:50:24 ◼   ► And I'm very excited to see, hopefully maybe there's some changes to my quest stage manager.

00:50:29 ◼   ► Maybe if I'm lucky, I would like some enhancements.

00:50:31 ◼   ► I want to do a quick shout out to PDF because people are like, what?

00:50:34 ◼   ► Like PDF.

00:50:35 ◼   ► Why?

00:50:36 ◼   ► That's like phone app.

00:50:37 ◼   ► Like why are we doing this?

00:50:38 ◼   ► And I'll tell you, I twice in the last year have been in a situation where I wanted to

00:50:44 ◼   ► do a collaborative markup of a PDF with somebody like, like a puzzle and you want to solve

00:50:49 ◼   ► it together or something.

00:50:51 ◼   ► And I, what I did is I brought it into free form and it was terrible.

00:50:58 ◼   ► And now they're just like, no, you can just do it with PDFs.

00:51:01 ◼   ► We're not going to make you go into some other app in order to do the markup.

00:51:05 ◼   ► You can just mark up PDFs together.

00:51:07 ◼   ► Also using machine learning to like figure out this is a form and yeah, all of that.

00:51:11 ◼   ► It's just, it's really great.

00:51:12 ◼   ► PDF is one of those things that I know it sounds boring, but like it's paper at this

00:51:16 ◼   ► point.

00:51:17 ◼   ► It is what Adobe wanted it to be all along, which is like, it's digital paper.

00:51:21 ◼   ► Everybody uses it.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Everybody uses the format.

00:51:23 ◼   ► And so to see the ability to do that kind of thing, including shared markup with Apple

00:51:28 ◼   ► pencil.

00:51:29 ◼   ► I love it.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Just, I know it's boring, but like I've literally had multiple times where I've tried to do

00:51:35 ◼   ► it and had that moment, which is like, this should be easier and now it will be hopefully.

00:51:40 ◼   ► So that's great.

00:51:42 ◼   ► The Mac got TV, the TVOS screen savers, which is awesome.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Yes.

00:51:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Which is, I'm very happy with that.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Widgets on the desktop.

00:51:50 ◼   ► On the desktop.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Where they do the haze over kind of thing where they fade into the background and then

00:51:54 ◼   ► you click on desktop and they come back up as full color and all of that, but they're

00:51:57 ◼   ► there.

00:51:58 ◼   ► And then it obviously benefits from the other stuff.

00:52:00 ◼   ► There wasn't.

00:52:01 ◼   ► Mac gaming got a segment.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:03 ◼   ► Who had that?

00:52:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:05 ◼   ► Game mode.

00:52:06 ◼   ► That's a big deal.

00:52:07 ◼   ► Game mode, basically like if you put a game in full screen, the Mac now will actually

00:52:11 ◼   ► know that you're playing a game and that it gets priority for the CPU and the GPU, which

00:52:16 ◼   ► I actually launched No Man's Sky the other day cause it came out for the Mac.

00:52:21 ◼   ► And I still had like Safari and Mime Stream and a whole bunch of other apps open.

00:52:28 ◼   ► And like, it just was, the frame rate was terrible.

00:52:33 ◼   ► And I was like, oh yeah, I need to quit all my other apps.

00:52:35 ◼   ► Well the prospect here is that if you launch a game when you have other apps running on

00:52:40 ◼   ► your Mac, the Mac goes, oh, you're playing a game now and prioritizes that for the CPU

00:52:47 ◼   ► and the GPUs.

00:52:48 ◼   ► That should help a lot.

00:52:49 ◼   ► Lower latency.

00:52:50 ◼   ► That's really good.

00:52:51 ◼   ► And then they're, yeah, they're increasing their Bluetooth sampling.

00:52:52 ◼   ► They've lowered the audio latency.

00:52:54 ◼   ► The whole idea here, like is this going to solve everything about the Mac being a gaming

00:52:58 ◼   ► platform?

00:52:59 ◼   ► No, but it's, it's, it helps.

00:53:02 ◼   ► I mean, genuinely, I think Hideo Kojima and the things he said were a very big deal to

00:53:07 ◼   ► me.

00:53:08 ◼   ► Like bringing Death Stranding is fine.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Like Death Stranding is not a new game.

00:53:11 ◼   ► And like, but he said like, and our future games, future projects.

00:53:15 ◼   ► And I'm excited about this as like the start of a new future of Mac gaming.

00:53:18 ◼   ► I was like, oh damn, that's a huge deal.

00:53:23 ◼   ► Like that is a, I was excited about that.

00:53:26 ◼   ► And again, he has nothing to do with No Man's Sky.

00:53:28 ◼   ► I have no idea why that became a thing.

00:53:30 ◼   ► But anyway, not so much on the Mac.

00:53:34 ◼   ► And what else on watchOS as well was leading up to it, like, oh, this is going to be like

00:53:39 ◼   ► the biggest change for our operating system.

00:53:42 ◼   ► It's so what it, there's stuff, it's new and it looks cool, but it's not, it's not a complete

00:53:46 ◼   ► rethink except I've got a couple of things about the watch.

00:53:49 ◼   ► One is the way that the widgets are built is that you scroll the crown and the widgets

00:53:56 ◼   ► come up on top of your watch face.

00:53:59 ◼   ► That's really good.

00:54:00 ◼   ► And you can choose what widgets go there, which means that you, you, if you value widgets,

00:54:05 ◼   ► you can get to them very quickly.

00:54:07 ◼   ► You don't have to launch an app and you don't have to be limited to a complication.

00:54:10 ◼   ► That's really good.

00:54:11 ◼   ► It also means that if you're somebody who uses complications, cause you can make a widget

00:54:16 ◼   ► with complications in it.

00:54:18 ◼   ► So it means that if you have watch faces that you wanted to use, but you can't because you

00:54:22 ◼   ► need complications, just use those watch faces now.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Cause you scroll up and there are your complications.

00:54:27 ◼   ► They're right there to tap, to go to, you know, to check your rings or whatever you want to

00:54:31 ◼   ► do.

00:54:32 ◼   ► So that's all really good.

00:54:35 ◼   ► It doesn't feel like a rethink, although I did like the part of the app design change

00:54:41 ◼   ► that they made that I really liked is the idea that apps basically have complications

00:54:45 ◼   ► in the corners.

00:54:46 ◼   ► And that's how you do it.

00:54:48 ◼   ► And that, that I will say after 10 years of Apple watch development, that's a great example

00:54:54 ◼   ► of Apple realizing how people use the watch.

00:54:56 ◼   ► Like, Oh, watch users understand about little icons in the corners that have meetings logical

00:55:01 ◼   ► sense.

00:55:02 ◼   ► Let's use that to solve this problem.

00:55:04 ◼   ► All the time, there's stuff in the corners on your Apple watch.

00:55:08 ◼   ► Why would it not be all the time?

00:55:10 ◼   ► Like it's, it's, it's one of the things that makes a lot of sense.

00:55:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:15 ◼   ► So, so that part, so it's not, it's not the watch was rethink that we thought, but I think

00:55:19 ◼   ► those are two tangible things that improve watchOS.

00:55:21 ◼   ► But it's, it's, it's effectively like a rethink of the serial watch face.

00:55:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Bringing it to the whole system and saying, why is it limited to that?

00:55:29 ◼   ► Cause I never used the serial watch face cause I didn't really like it even though I liked

00:55:32 ◼   ► the idea of it.

00:55:33 ◼   ► And this is like, well, no, no, just use whatever watch face you want.

00:55:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:36 ◼   ► And all that information is just right there for you.

00:55:38 ◼   ► I think that's good.

00:55:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:40 ◼   ► I'm intrigued.

00:55:41 ◼   ► I'm intrigued how that's going to play out.

00:55:42 ◼   ► I think it could be really cool to have more information kind of just there.

00:55:45 ◼   ► And obviously the, the widgets will be more information rich than a complication.

00:55:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:50 ◼   ► And so like I may, for example, stop using my weather complication cause I'll use a widget

00:55:54 ◼   ► and then I have a new complication space.

00:55:56 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:58 ◼   ► So like there's a little bit.

00:55:59 ◼   ► So if you want to put your weather at the top, that's what I would want to do.

00:56:01 ◼   ► Or if you wanted to put the complications at the top, you could write, so then you could

00:56:04 ◼   ► use the photo watch face and still have your complications just to one little, and you're

00:56:08 ◼   ► right there.

00:56:09 ◼   ► That's good.

00:56:10 ◼   ► That's really cool.

00:56:11 ◼   ► Um, the mood tracking thing, it looks like a really nice experience.

00:56:14 ◼   ► I, I like the visualness of it.

00:56:19 ◼   ► That I think is very nice to use.

00:56:22 ◼   ► It's pleasant to use, which is what you would want from a thing like that if you were feeling

00:56:27 ◼   ► down, right?

00:56:29 ◼   ► That like you don't have to say how you're feeling.

00:56:32 ◼   ► You can just choose from a visual.

00:56:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:34 ◼   ► Like I think that there is a, there's a nicety to that.

00:56:36 ◼   ► I like that.

00:56:37 ◼   ► And then it tracks it.

00:56:38 ◼   ► So it's got, it's able to gain some insight about whether you're, you know, you're feeling

00:56:41 ◼   ► down or if you, you, you know, it's understanding your history.

00:56:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:47 ◼   ► And I liked the quizzes and stuff that you're able to take that you evaluations.

00:56:50 ◼   ► It was really nice.

00:56:51 ◼   ► Can I mention that we were doing the iOS lightning around here?

00:56:54 ◼   ► I just want to point out that, or the, the OS, that there was, there were, there was

00:56:59 ◼   ► iOS, iPadOS, MacOS, and then, um, things that support the audio, audio in the home, TVOS,

00:57:05 ◼   ► I guess would be in that.

00:57:07 ◼   ► AirPods OS.

00:57:08 ◼   ► And the AirPods.

00:57:09 ◼   ► Like TVOS actually had, we mentioned it earlier.

00:57:12 ◼   ► Great.

00:57:13 ◼   ► FaceTime on TVOS with continuity camera is great.

00:57:16 ◼   ► I do weekly.

00:57:18 ◼   ► Yep.

00:57:19 ◼   ► Or I guess it's every other week, zoom calls with Lauren's family and we're sitting in

00:57:24 ◼   ► front of a big TV and we ended up putting it on like an iPad or a laptop and it's stupid.

00:57:30 ◼   ► So this is great.

00:57:31 ◼   ► I think this is going to be great.

00:57:32 ◼   ► And the fact, again, they went out of their way to say, this will also work with zoom

00:57:35 ◼   ► and anything else.

00:57:36 ◼   ► And they're going to be on TVOS for the first time.

00:57:39 ◼   ► And so I was, I was very happy with that.

00:57:41 ◼   ► And also TVOS, you'll, you'll like this as the TVOS reviewer, that new control center

00:57:45 ◼   ► for TVOS that doesn't, isn't stupid.

00:57:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:48 ◼   ► It's actually good.

00:57:49 ◼   ► These were some good updates to TVOS.

00:57:51 ◼   ► There was more right then.

00:57:52 ◼   ► I obviously was in my draft.

00:57:53 ◼   ► I thought they wouldn't even talk about it.

00:57:55 ◼   ► And I was, I'm actually enthused by them doing it this way because this gives them the opportunity

00:58:01 ◼   ► to talk about this operating system and these features all in one bucket.

00:58:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:58:07 ◼   ► HomePod and AirPods and TV.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Like it makes sense to put them all together.

00:58:11 ◼   ► And I thought it was a nice presentation.

00:58:13 ◼   ► And as we finished the lightning round, I want to say shout out to Adaptive Audio.

00:58:18 ◼   ► That looks good.

00:58:20 ◼   ► It's well, and think about it.

00:58:22 ◼   ► It's like, again, they took the things they built for AirPods.

00:58:26 ◼   ► So transparency mode, noise canceling.

00:58:29 ◼   ► And it's like, those are nice, but this is now that they've been out in the wild for

00:58:33 ◼   ► a while, this is their, what if we could intelligently blend them so you don't have to do that?

00:58:38 ◼   ► You can if you want to, but like what if we made it so that when somebody starts talking

00:58:43 ◼   ► to you, it does something to adapt.

00:58:46 ◼   ► What if we made it so that you can hear important sounds that are around you, but not dumb noise

00:58:51 ◼   ► that's around you and being able to try and make some guesses about all of that.

00:58:55 ◼   ► That's because in the end, as great as transparency and noise canceling are, what's even greater

00:59:00 ◼   ► is if you don't have to keep reaching up to your ear to toggle between them because the

00:59:05 ◼   ► device knows.

00:59:06 ◼   ► That's like for me, one of the times where I use noise cancellation, but I don't want

00:59:11 ◼   ► to is when I'm on the tube, right?

00:59:13 ◼   ► Because sometimes the trains are really loud, so I want to put noise cancellation on, but

00:59:17 ◼   ► I want to be able to hear the announcements.

00:59:20 ◼   ► So my hope is that this would provide that, right?

00:59:23 ◼   ► That like if there was an announcement, it might be able to pick that up and give that

00:59:27 ◼   ► information to me.

00:59:29 ◼   ► So that I would like that a lot.

00:59:31 ◼   ► It's worth noting AirPods Pro, second generation only, which makes me think we're wearing AirPods

00:59:36 ◼   ► Max today.

00:59:37 ◼   ► I use AirPods Max when I'm on planes.

00:59:39 ◼   ► I'm now hoping there will be a new generation of AirPods Max that will support this.

00:59:42 ◼   ► Because like for me, a good time is plane.

00:59:45 ◼   ► When I was flying over here multiple times, the flight attendant was asking me questions

00:59:51 ◼   ► and Adina had to hit me.

00:59:52 ◼   ► He's asking me a question.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Because I was just watching, I watched 13 episodes of the West Wing on the flight.

00:59:59 ◼   ► I didn't mean to do that, but I just started and that was where I went.

01:00:02 ◼   ► And so I was engrossed in the show and I wasn't, but like, because I couldn't hear that someone

01:00:06 ◼   ► was talking to me.

01:00:07 ◼   ► And this shows you how Apple has a philosophy as a company, because this is the same conversation

01:00:12 ◼   ► we had about the Apple Vision Pro, which is letting you be as detached from reality as

01:00:19 ◼   ► you need to be, but being smart about allowing you to remain attached in some way.

01:00:24 ◼   ► This is that kind of idea that you're on the plane and somebody is trying to talk to you

01:00:28 ◼   ► and it knows and it connects you unless you want to not be bothered.

01:00:33 ◼   ► But like, I think that's great.

01:00:35 ◼   ► I think that's how it should work.

01:00:37 ◼   ► We will talk more about these operating systems over the coming months, especially as we install

01:00:41 ◼   ► bators and get time to use them and find out what people are finding out from the little

01:00:46 ◼   ► bits and bobs.

01:00:47 ◼   ► This week we'll learn a lot.

01:00:49 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Fitbond.

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01:02:32 ◼   ► We have got three new Macs today.

01:02:35 ◼   ► 15-inch MacBook Air, new version of the Mac Studio, Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

01:02:43 ◼   ► Apple Silicon Mac Pro is shipping next week.

01:02:45 ◼   ► That is unbelievable to me.

01:02:47 ◼   ► Like out of nowhere?

01:02:49 ◼   ► And for all of our tea leaf reading about what Apple does and why they do it, and you

01:02:57 ◼   ► know there are a lot of people out there who are like, "Apple will never... what will Apple

01:03:01 ◼   ► never?"

01:03:02 ◼   ► Apple will never release an M2...

01:03:03 ◼   ► I don't know why they talk like that.

01:03:04 ◼   ► But they do.

01:03:05 ◼   ► Apple will never release an M2 15-inch MacBook Air because the M2 13-inch MacBook Air has

01:03:14 ◼   ► been out for almost a year.

01:03:16 ◼   ► They'll never do that.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Well, they did it.

01:03:18 ◼   ► Apple will never release a Mac Studio with an M2 Ultra in it and a Mac Pro with an M2

01:03:24 ◼   ► Ultra in it.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Apple will do a lot of things that people think it'll never do.

01:03:29 ◼   ► And the idea here is the Mac Pro is what it is.

01:03:32 ◼   ► It's not...

01:03:34 ◼   ► It's just got the Ultra chip in it.

01:03:37 ◼   ► It's got lots of slots.

01:03:38 ◼   ► The slots are not for graphics.

01:03:40 ◼   ► They're for storage and networking.

01:03:43 ◼   ► On audio and stuff like that.

01:03:44 ◼   ► And audio and all those things.

01:03:45 ◼   ► And they had a bunch set up.

01:03:46 ◼   ► Specific uses.

01:03:47 ◼   ► And they said, you know, for video editors, they like a lot of this.

01:03:50 ◼   ► And for audio editors, they do this.

01:03:51 ◼   ► And there's a lot of like super fast networking that's done in media fields.

01:03:54 ◼   ► And that's what they're doing.

01:03:55 ◼   ► And of course, from Apple's perspective, they can't at least yet re-engineer the way graphics

01:04:01 ◼   ► cores work in Apple Silicon.

01:04:03 ◼   ► So they're going to lean into the other things.

01:04:05 ◼   ► Because that's what they've got.

01:04:07 ◼   ► But it's here.

01:04:08 ◼   ► It closes the transition.

01:04:10 ◼   ► And now we can start speculating about, are they going to do more on the Mac Pro side

01:04:14 ◼   ► going forward?

01:04:15 ◼   ► But it's out.

01:04:16 ◼   ► They shipped it.

01:04:17 ◼   ► And they shipped the Ultra at the same time.

01:04:20 ◼   ► Or are about to ship the Ultra.

01:04:22 ◼   ► At the same time, or the studio with Max and Ultra.

01:04:27 ◼   ► A little curious about why it took them so long to get those Max Studios out there.

01:04:32 ◼   ► But happy to see them out there.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Because as somebody who loves the Max Studio, I'm glad that the Max Studio is not a one-off.

01:04:37 ◼   ► I think they maybe didn't want to rev the Max Studio until they had the Mac Pro.

01:04:43 ◼   ► I think maybe you're right.

01:04:44 ◼   ► Because it sent the wrong message.

01:04:45 ◼   ► And now they can say, here's why you can choose, right?

01:04:50 ◼   ► And I liked that they framed it that way, answering some of those questions about why.

01:04:54 ◼   ► And the answer is, look, we have customers who just need this.

01:04:57 ◼   ► And we have customers who need this space of the Mac Pro.

01:05:00 ◼   ► And so we're going to give that to them.

01:05:03 ◼   ► And nothing surprising about it.

01:05:04 ◼   ► There's no big conspiracy theory.

01:05:07 ◼   ► It's literally the enclosure that you know.

01:05:10 ◼   ► Lots and lots of space inside it for lots and lots of cards.

01:05:16 ◼   ► And there's no change to the RAM and graphics model because it's Apple Silicon.

01:05:20 ◼   ► And that's where we are.

01:05:21 ◼   ► And I mean, you can put up to 192 gigabytes of RAM in there.

01:05:26 ◼   ► So I think you're going to be fine.

01:05:27 ◼   ► Oh, sure.

01:05:28 ◼   ► I mean, it's just one of those debates about like, but what if I need more GPUs and all

01:05:33 ◼   ► that?

01:05:34 ◼   ► However, the star of the show, other than you know, is the 15-inch MacBook Air.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Because here's the thing.

01:05:41 ◼   ► It's not any different from the 13-inch MacBook Air.

01:05:44 ◼   ► It is an M2 MacBook Air that's bigger.

01:05:45 ◼   ► I got to hold one.

01:05:47 ◼   ► Me too.

01:05:48 ◼   ► It is, other than the fact that there's more space on the sides of the keyboard because

01:05:51 ◼   ► it's a bigger computer and it's got a bigger screen.

01:05:54 ◼   ► If you didn't know about this, if you didn't notice the space on the sides of the keyboard,

01:05:58 ◼   ► you might not even understand whether you are not just looking at a 13-inch because

01:06:02 ◼   ► they're designed the same.

01:06:04 ◼   ► They look the same.

01:06:05 ◼   ► It's just bigger.

01:06:06 ◼   ► The battery is, it's got the bigger screen.

01:06:09 ◼   ► Presumably it's got better battery too.

01:06:10 ◼   ► The net result is the same quoted battery life.

01:06:13 ◼   ► The only thing that's really different, other than the fact that the screen's bigger and

01:06:17 ◼   ► it's a little bit heavier, is that the audio's a little bit bigger.

01:06:20 ◼   ► There was room for like two more drivers, I guess, in the audio.

01:06:24 ◼   ► But like basically, it's the 13-inch MacBook Air but bigger.

01:06:28 ◼   ► 13-inch MacBook Air, most popular laptop around essentially.

01:06:33 ◼   ► You and me both.

01:06:36 ◼   ► And some people want a bigger one.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Like this is, this is, it is Apple.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Look, Apple could have said, well, if you want a bigger laptop, pay more than $1,000

01:06:48 ◼   ► to get a MacBook Pro.

01:06:49 ◼   ► And some people will say yes.

01:06:51 ◼   ► A lot of people will say no.

01:06:53 ◼   ► I think the 15-inch Air is going to be a big hit, maybe bigger than the 13-inch.

01:06:59 ◼   ► If not, you know, because they're a couple hundred dollars apart because they cut the

01:07:02 ◼   ► price of the M2 Air by 100, which is great.

01:07:05 ◼   ► Awesome.

01:07:06 ◼   ► You can see it's like, it's getting closer and closer.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Like another year or two, it's 999.

01:07:09 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:07:10 ◼   ► It's getting there.

01:07:11 ◼   ► So that's the one that like all of us jaded Apple watchers are like, yeah, okay, MacBook

01:07:17 ◼   ► Air, M2, Boring, whatever.

01:07:20 ◼   ► That thing is going to be a hit.

01:07:22 ◼   ► And people are going to love it.

01:07:25 ◼   ► And it's going to be really, really good and successful because the 13-inch model is great.

01:07:30 ◼   ► And now there's one for $100 more than the 13-inch model used to cost until today.

01:07:37 ◼   ► You can get a 15-inch laptop and there hasn't been a 15-inch Mac laptop in that price range

01:07:43 ◼   ► for a while.

01:07:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:45 ◼   ► If I used my laptop more like a laptop, like it's plugged into my studio display most of

01:07:51 ◼   ► the time.

01:07:52 ◼   ► Like I think I would prefer the 15 over the 13 because you get more screen space.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:57 ◼   ► Like more space.

01:07:58 ◼   ► Right now I don't have enough screen space to do what I'm doing, but most of the time

01:08:03 ◼   ► this is not a problem to me because I'm plugged into a display and I like having the small

01:08:06 ◼   ► form factor for traveling.

01:08:08 ◼   ► And I know a lot of our listeners are MacBook Pro people and they're like, "Well, you just

01:08:11 ◼   ► get a MacBook Pro."

01:08:12 ◼   ► The MacBook Pro-

01:08:13 ◼   ► You don't need a MacBook Pro anymore.

01:08:14 ◼   ► The 16-inch MacBook Pro is so expensive.

01:08:17 ◼   ► It's also so much bigger.

01:08:19 ◼   ► It's heavier, it's thicker.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And it's bigger and it's heavier and all those things.

01:08:22 ◼   ► And some people might choose that just for the screen size.

01:08:26 ◼   ► But what the 15-inch Air suggests is, which I think is true, there are a lot of people

01:08:31 ◼   ► who are just not going to spend $2,500 on a laptop to get a bigger screen.

01:08:36 ◼   ► And Apple wasn't serving that audience.

01:08:38 ◼   ► There are a lot of people that use their laptop for everything.

01:08:43 ◼   ► They watch all their media on their laptop.

01:08:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:45 ◼   ► Right?

01:08:46 ◼   ► Like I'm thinking like students and stuff, right?

01:08:47 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:08:48 ◼   ► Or if you flat share and you just have a bedroom, right?

01:08:52 ◼   ► You don't necessarily want to put a TV in there.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Like wouldn't it be better to just have a bigger screen?

01:09:00 ◼   ► This thing's going to do good.

01:09:01 ◼   ► I think so.

01:09:02 ◼   ► I picked it up and was genuinely surprised about how light it was.

01:09:05 ◼   ► It's really good.

01:09:08 ◼   ► I wanted to check like what the weight difference was between the 13 and 15.

01:09:12 ◼   ► So it's 2.7 pounds for the 13, 3.3 pounds for...

01:09:17 ◼   ► I mean it's half a pound heavier, but it's also a 15.3 inch display.

01:09:21 ◼   ► It's a really nice size display.

01:09:24 ◼   ► Look good too.

01:09:25 ◼   ► I went through the whole demo, they were showing me something.

01:09:28 ◼   ► It's like it's an M2 MacBook Air with the biggest screen.

01:09:31 ◼   ► That's literally all it is.

01:09:32 ◼   ► And I know we can all be like, "Oh, again, it's so boring."

01:09:36 ◼   ► It's like, "Yeah, it is boring.

01:09:37 ◼   ► It's also going to be an enormous hit."

01:09:39 ◼   ► And in this calendar year, the most important product that Apple announced today.

01:09:45 ◼   ► So yeah.

01:09:46 ◼   ► Yes.

01:09:47 ◼   ► Oh, you know what I wanted to talk about real quick before we wrap up?

01:09:52 ◼   ► Is the availability thing of the Reality Pro?

01:09:55 ◼   ► Nope, Vision Pro.

01:09:56 ◼   ► Vision Pro.

01:09:57 ◼   ► You got to stop saying it.

01:09:58 ◼   ► I will get there eventually.

01:09:59 ◼   ► The Apple Vision Pro, it's facing a potential conundrum for me of available in, say, January,

01:10:07 ◼   ► February next year.

01:10:09 ◼   ► US only.

01:10:10 ◼   ► And unknown time.

01:10:11 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I got to get one.

01:10:14 ◼   ► So it's like, do I have someone buy one and ship one to me?

01:10:17 ◼   ► Do I come to America?

01:10:18 ◼   ► Big Vision buddy.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Oh, coming to America.

01:10:20 ◼   ► I could do that.

01:10:21 ◼   ► I could take a flight to somewhere on the East Coast.

01:10:23 ◼   ► But it's going to be an interesting thing.

01:10:26 ◼   ► I'm not sure what I'm going to do there, but I have a lot of time to think about that.

01:10:29 ◼   ► But anyway, that was a diversion.

01:10:31 ◼   ► Back to the Macs.

01:10:32 ◼   ► I am interested in this Mac Studio because for me, so I think for me in the future, a

01:10:39 ◼   ► Mac Studio is a good idea for me because right now I'm using a 14-inch MacBook Pro that is

01:10:44 ◼   ► permanently in clamshell mode as my recording and production machine at the studio just

01:10:49 ◼   ► because I have it.

01:10:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:51 ◼   ► So like when I got the MacBook Air completely won me over with the review unit and I was

01:10:54 ◼   ► like, this is the laptop I want, but I still need something to produce my shows.

01:10:58 ◼   ► And that's really powerful and it's doing a great job for me.

01:11:01 ◼   ► And I always thought maybe the Mac Studio makes sense for the actual physical setup

01:11:06 ◼   ► that I have, but I was nervous that it was a one and done, but it's not.

01:11:11 ◼   ► It's not.

01:11:12 ◼   ► So now I don't know when or if I would, I'm probably a couple of years away now from still

01:11:18 ◼   ► wanting to upgrade that machine.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Sell that MacBook Pro.

01:11:21 ◼   ► I might do.

01:11:22 ◼   ► I'll see.

01:11:23 ◼   ► But my point now is I now feel confident in Mac Studio as a thing.

01:11:28 ◼   ► I can like get on board with that idea.

01:11:32 ◼   ► Mac Studio is more of a representation of Apple's vision of what computing is in Apple

01:11:39 ◼   ► Silicon for pro users than the Mac Pro is.

01:11:44 ◼   ► The Mac Pro is like there because it needs to be there and it's nice to have it and all

01:11:49 ◼   ► of that.

01:11:50 ◼   ► But the fact is that given the priorities that Apple has done for Apple Silicon in terms

01:11:55 ◼   ► of things like closely integrating the GPU and the memory and all those things, the Mac

01:11:59 ◼   ► Studio is the ultimate kind of iteration of that philosophy.

01:12:04 ◼   ► The Mac Pro is more like a little sideline where it's tweaked a little bit and it's a

01:12:07 ◼   ► little more modular because some people want that.

01:12:09 ◼   ► But like the purity of the vision, I think, is that Mac Studio.

01:12:15 ◼   ► What a day.

01:12:16 ◼   ► Big day.

01:12:17 ◼   ► Huge day.

01:12:18 ◼   ► This is going to take some time to process.

01:12:19 ◼   ► I feel like we had two WWDC keynotes today.

01:12:21 ◼   ► It felt like that a little bit, doesn't it?

01:12:23 ◼   ► And so I'm very excited to be here and we can bathe in the information over the next

01:12:29 ◼   ► few days and then we'll be recording together again on Monday as we'll ring in the beginning

01:12:35 ◼   ► of the Summer of Fun and we'll talk more about this stuff.

01:12:38 ◼   ► We'll have more information and we'll be able to dig into it further.

01:12:40 ◼   ► Speaking of the Summer of Fun, don't forget that you can get your exclusive official Summer

01:12:45 ◼   ► of Fun merchandise right now by going to upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

01:12:48 ◼   ► Go and check out the new Thunderbolt Doc Surf Shop t-shirt.

01:12:52 ◼   ► It's very fun, very cool, great colors.

01:12:55 ◼   ► Thanks to designer JD.

01:12:56 ◼   ► Yes.

01:12:57 ◼   ► I had a vision of a Surf Shop shirt and JD came through.

01:13:02 ◼   ► JD came through.

01:13:03 ◼   ► If you want to send us your feedback, follow up and questions, I'm sure you'll have a ton

01:13:07 ◼   ► of Ask Upgrade questions for us the next week.

01:13:09 ◼   ► Go to upgradefeedback.com.

01:13:11 ◼   ► You can check out Jason and Dan's work at sixcolors.com.

01:13:14 ◼   ► I'm sure you're going to have a ton of stuff going on over the next few weeks.

01:13:17 ◼   ► You can hear Jason's shows here on RelayFM and the incomparable.com.

01:13:20 ◼   ► Check out Downstream and the new Downstream Plus.

01:13:23 ◼   ► That's a really cool thing you're doing.

01:13:25 ◼   ► You can listen to my shows here on RelayFM and check out my work at cortexbrand.com.

01:13:28 ◼   ► We're on Mastodon.

01:13:30 ◼   ► Jason is at Jason now on zeppelin.flight.

01:13:32 ◼   ► You can find me as @imike on mike.social.

01:13:35 ◼   ► You can also find the show as @upgrade on relayfm.social where you can also see video

01:13:39 ◼   ► clips along on our TikTok and Instagram accounts.

01:13:42 ◼   ► We are @upgraderelay on both.

01:13:44 ◼   ► I was hanging out with a video consultant at the show, Jeremy Burge, yesterday and he

01:13:47 ◼   ► posted an official TikTok face reveal for me, which is apparently a thing.

01:13:52 ◼   ► We, thanks to the people at Apple, have video of this.

01:13:56 ◼   ► Yes, we'll try to post it somewhere.

01:13:58 ◼   ► So this show, I mean you've already heard it now, but there'll be a video version if

01:14:01 ◼   ► you just want to see what it looked like and we'll put some clips up I'm sure somewhere.

01:14:05 ◼   ► Hi everybody.

01:14:06 ◼   ► Hi everyone.

01:14:07 ◼   ► Thank you to our members who support us at Upgrade Plus.

01:14:10 ◼   ► You can go to getupgradeplus.com to find out more.

01:14:13 ◼   ► Thank you to Fitbud and Notion and Squarespace for their support of this show.

01:14:17 ◼   ► First of all, thank you for listening.

01:14:19 ◼   ► Until next time, say goodbye just now.

01:14:21 ◼   ► Goodbye Mike Hurley.

01:14:22 ◼   ► Bye.

01:14:23 ◼   ► Bye.

01:14:23 ◼   ► Bye.

01:14:26 ◼   ► Bye.

01:14:36 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]