Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:10 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 461, and it is the WWDC keynote draft for 2023.

00:00:23 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Nom Nom and Dark Noise.

00:00:26 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by my competitor in the draft, Jason Snow.

00:00:34 ◼   ► You're going down, Mike, is that what competitors say?

00:00:37 ◼   ► Welcome, hello.

00:00:38 ◼   ► You can say that.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Welcome to the Octagon, where two podcasters enter and both leave, but one of them will

00:00:44 ◼   ► win next time.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Yes, this time we will both enter and both leave.

00:00:48 ◼   ► And both leave?

00:00:49 ◼   ► Next time, one will win.

00:00:50 ◼   ► But we'll still both leave, but they'll be a winner.

00:00:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:54 ◼   ► I have a Snow Talk question for you.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:00:57 ◼   ► It comes from me and I would like to know, one week out from WWDC, how are your vibes?

00:01:02 ◼   ► You excited?

00:01:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I am.

00:01:04 ◼   ► I am.

00:01:05 ◼   ► I mean, we always talk about this and it's always like, oh, it's a lot of work, right?

00:01:09 ◼   ► And I don't even have a trip, right?

00:01:11 ◼   ► It's literally, I just drive down.

00:01:13 ◼   ► It's not that, it's all, you're coming to California.

00:01:15 ◼   ► It's a whole thing.

00:01:16 ◼   ► And for me, it's just like, but I'll tell you, not only am I always interested in the

00:01:22 ◼   ► resetting of the Apple software year and what are the new OS is going to be and all that,

00:01:25 ◼   ► and it's like so much about like, what are they, what are their focuses and what are

00:01:29 ◼   ► they going to say and what are we going to be focusing on in our jobs for the next year?

00:01:33 ◼   ► I mean, it's a big deal, but it's not every day Apple launches an entirely new platform,

00:01:37 ◼   ► hardware and software.

00:01:38 ◼   ► And, uh, this been, you know, you say about it's the next year, right?

00:01:43 ◼   ► This one is like years.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:45 ◼   ► That's the difference.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:48 ◼   ► No, this is, this is, I mean, really, I would say probably since the Apple watch that we've

00:01:52 ◼   ► had something of this scope.

00:01:54 ◼   ► And if what we assume is going to happen is going to happen.

00:01:57 ◼   ► So that is extra exciting because those moments are special.

00:02:02 ◼   ► And although there's this public perception out there that like Apple releases a new revolutionary

00:02:07 ◼   ► product every year, or they used to, but they don't anymore, like it's never been true.

00:02:12 ◼   ► It's very rare that you get one of these moments, but here we are.

00:02:16 ◼   ► And this one's particularly interesting because so much of it is sort of a mystery.

00:02:20 ◼   ► I know that there have been all these leaks and all these features and all that, but like,

00:02:25 ◼   ► I, it's what I always say about Apple events, but like exploded several more times, which

00:02:30 ◼   ► is what's the narrative, what do they emphasize?

00:02:33 ◼   ► What are some of the details?

00:02:35 ◼   ► Like we know a lot about like the bill of lading for this thing, but we don't know a

00:02:39 ◼   ► lot about like the philosophy behind it and how they've structured the operating system

00:02:43 ◼   ► and, and, and clever little details that are going to make you go, Oh, of course.

00:02:48 ◼   ► Um, that's the stuff that I'm really looking forward to.

00:02:52 ◼   ► It's like my kind of feeling of this one right now, the headset is the first new product

00:03:00 ◼   ► that could have a potential effect like the iPhone.

00:03:04 ◼   ► I feel like the iPad, we kind of works.

00:03:08 ◼   ► We're excited about it.

00:03:09 ◼   ► I'm just like, this is new thing.

00:03:11 ◼   ► The Apple watch, I don't think anyone realistically expected that the Apple watch would be its

00:03:18 ◼   ► own revolutionary product, right?

00:03:20 ◼   ► That it was going to be, I mean, the press at the time though, this is, I'm not saying

00:03:24 ◼   ► reasonably, I'm saying the press at the time was like, Apple needs another thing and oh,

00:03:28 ◼   ► this is going to be the next iPhone.

00:03:30 ◼   ► And we, those of us like, including you and me, we're like waving our arms like, no, no,

00:03:34 ◼   ► no, it's not, there's not going to be another iPhone.

00:03:36 ◼   ► It's not, it's not this headset is not going to be that if there is going to be something,

00:03:42 ◼   ► I think this is the start of it.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Like if yeah, the glasses are the future.

00:03:47 ◼   ► This is the beginning.

00:03:48 ◼   ► So I'm very excited.

00:03:50 ◼   ► Obviously I'm also incredibly excited because I'm coming.

00:03:54 ◼   ► I'm going to be at the keynote and this time Jason, I am going to be at the keynote.

00:03:59 ◼   ► I have, I'm manifesting this in my mind.

00:04:03 ◼   ► I will be there at Apple park.

00:04:04 ◼   ► We'll be there together.

00:04:05 ◼   ► We have something fun to share about that in a little bit, but we have some rules to

00:04:11 ◼   ► get to for the draft.

00:04:12 ◼   ► This is a game of rules.

00:04:15 ◼   ► There are going to be 16 rounds in this year's draft, a total of 32 overall picks split into

00:04:24 ◼   ► five categories.

00:04:26 ◼   ► They will be iOS and iPadOS.

00:04:28 ◼   ► That is one category then headset, other, stagecraft and a bonus round for picking the

00:04:34 ◼   ► Mac OS name.

00:04:35 ◼   ► It's your favorite round.

00:04:37 ◼   ► It's going to be fun for everyone.

00:04:39 ◼   ► The winner of the previous draft gets the first pick.

00:04:41 ◼   ► I was the winner of the previous draft.

00:04:43 ◼   ► So it's me, all of the things that we pick are from a predetermined list of choices,

00:04:48 ◼   ► which we have been amassing.

00:04:49 ◼   ► We have agreed that these are all set and anything that is verifiable on screen can

00:04:57 ◼   ► be, is what is counted.

00:04:59 ◼   ► We do not put in ridiculously obvious things here.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Like you cannot pick, there will be a new version of iOS.

00:05:06 ◼   ► That's not there.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Yeah, there's no, there's no, there will be a headset pick, right?

00:05:10 ◼   ► There's none of that.

00:05:11 ◼   ► You got to have more detail required.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:14 ◼   ► Uh, for an item to be counted and to be scored, uh, it must either be clearly announced on

00:05:19 ◼   ► stage or on a slide during the presentation.

00:05:22 ◼   ► So the draft is scored purely on the keynote presentation.

00:05:25 ◼   ► If something's in the state of the union, that's great for the state of the union.

00:05:28 ◼   ► It doesn't matter for the draft.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Or on the website.

00:05:32 ◼   ► It doesn't matter.

00:05:33 ◼   ► It does not matter.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:35 ◼   ► There are no partial points awarded and Stephen Hackett will be brought into adjudicate in

00:05:38 ◼   ► the case of a scoring stalemate between the two of us.

00:05:41 ◼   ► But as we always say, we like to settle it together.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Yes, we do.

00:05:44 ◼   ► Gentlemen, gentlemen, like, uh, very gentle.

00:05:47 ◼   ► That's yes.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Sportsman like the points awarded on the episode are final and are finalized during the scoring

00:05:54 ◼   ► segment.

00:05:56 ◼   ► In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question.

00:05:59 ◼   ► Loser will get the pick of the tiebreaker question.

00:06:02 ◼   ► The winner will become draft champion and will display the champion pennant.

00:06:07 ◼   ► Loser becomes the draft challenger and displays the challenger pennant.

00:06:11 ◼   ► So we have these pennants in our respective offices.

00:06:14 ◼   ► Mine says champion.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Jason's says challenger.

00:06:18 ◼   ► For a while now.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Here are the draft results for 2022.

00:06:25 ◼   ► I was the winner picking up both the WWDC and September wins.

00:06:30 ◼   ► Jason's won the March event.

00:06:31 ◼   ► So it was a 2-1.

00:06:33 ◼   ► This is the first event of 2023, which is interesting.

00:06:36 ◼   ► I know.

00:06:37 ◼   ► The history of the WWDC draft is thusly, I have won four times.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Jason has won three times.

00:06:44 ◼   ► So this is WWDC draft V-I-I-I.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Correct.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:06:50 ◼   ► I, now you said that I wish we would have made that the episode like naming convention.

00:06:58 ◼   ► We could have gone like WWDC V-I-I-I.

00:07:01 ◼   ► How fun would that be?

00:07:03 ◼   ► I just submitted it as a title.

00:07:04 ◼   ► Maybe we'll change it.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:07:06 ◼   ► So at least it will be the subtitle, potentially.

00:07:10 ◼   ► Here is some programming notes.

00:07:12 ◼   ► Next week, we will be recording live together from Apple Park.

00:07:18 ◼   ► Looks like.

00:07:20 ◼   ► This will be the first time, hopefully, that the episode will have been recorded with both

00:07:24 ◼   ► of us together in the grounds of Apple.

00:07:27 ◼   ► We are currently scheduled.

00:07:28 ◼   ► I've been live at Apple.

00:07:29 ◼   ► You've been live.

00:07:30 ◼   ► And I was on a screen there.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:33 ◼   ► We don't need to rub it in, do we really?

00:07:36 ◼   ► You know?

00:07:37 ◼   ► See, this is Jason.

00:07:38 ◼   ► He's in draft mode right now.

00:07:39 ◼   ► The iPhone event was like that.

00:07:40 ◼   ► You weren't in California at all for the iPhone event and you were on a little screen.

00:07:44 ◼   ► Well, I was also on a screen for the WWDC one and I was also in San Jose, but that wasn't

00:07:51 ◼   ► super helpful for anyone.

00:07:53 ◼   ► But this time, no screens, hopefully, just you and me together at an undisclosed location

00:08:00 ◼   ► somewhere around the Apple campus.

00:08:03 ◼   ► We are currently scheduled to start around 1.45 PM if you listen live.

00:08:07 ◼   ► This could change, though, of course.

00:08:09 ◼   ► Please keep an eye on the Upgrade Mastodon account or in the Relay FM members Discord

00:08:13 ◼   ► and we will keep you updated on our going live time.

00:08:17 ◼   ► But we will be recording live.

00:08:18 ◼   ► So if you are a Relay FM member, you can listen and hang out and chat in our Discord.

00:08:23 ◼   ► But you can listen on the web at relay.fm/live.

00:08:27 ◼   ► That's 1.45 PM Pacific.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Pacific time.

00:08:30 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:31 ◼   ► Cupertino time.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Cupertino time.

00:08:33 ◼   ► It's the time that we'll both be in.

00:08:34 ◼   ► So it's the time that we'll observe.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it's the time.

00:08:37 ◼   ► If you would like to score along with the draft, you can get your scorecard upgrade.cards.

00:08:43 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Upgrading and Relay FM Discord mod Zach Knox for putting that together

00:08:48 ◼   ► for us as they always do.

00:08:50 ◼   ► It's highly appreciated.

00:08:52 ◼   ► You can find the whole history there of the drafts if you'd like to go through yourself.

00:08:56 ◼   ► And if you would like to get your very own draft shirt, you can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:09:02 ◼   ► That is a permanently available item.

00:09:06 ◼   ► So let's get into it.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Let's start with a tiebreaker.

00:09:08 ◼   ► We have for many years done event duration.

00:09:11 ◼   ► And I think that that continues to be our preferred tiebreaker question.

00:09:16 ◼   ► So Jason, would you like to choose the time in minutes?

00:09:20 ◼   ► And I will go over under.

00:09:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:09:22 ◼   ► So what we have seen is thus far, Apple has done a lot of live events for WWDC that have

00:09:28 ◼   ► been just over two hours, sometimes a lot over if Jimmy Iovine comes out on stage and

00:09:32 ◼   ► rambles.

00:09:34 ◼   ► But their video events have been under two hours.

00:09:37 ◼   ► The question is with this keynote and this product that they're going to announce, are

00:09:43 ◼   ► they going to be able to go under two hours and show that discipline?

00:09:47 ◼   ► Or are they going to blow through it and put it up above 120 minutes?

00:09:51 ◼   ► And so I'm just going to lay it down right there, Mike.

00:09:53 ◼   ► Tiebreaker.

00:09:54 ◼   ► Are they going to break 120 minutes?

00:09:56 ◼   ► Or are they going to keep it under no matter what?

00:09:58 ◼   ► Oh, I hate this so much.

00:10:01 ◼   ► That's the idea.

00:10:06 ◼   ► My personal inclination is that it will break two hours.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Like I do believe that that's going to be the case.

00:10:15 ◼   ► So I'm going to say yes, I'm going to say over 120 minutes.

00:10:19 ◼   ► Okay.

00:10:20 ◼   ► And my personal inclination is that they won't break two hours because they've just decided

00:10:24 ◼   ► that's the limit.

00:10:25 ◼   ► And that's why I said it where I did is I thought that that's actually a natural break

00:10:29 ◼   ► between what you already think and what I already think.

00:10:31 ◼   ► So there it is.

00:10:32 ◼   ► It's on the line in case of a tie.

00:10:35 ◼   ► We'll see how long the event is.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I do think though, if it does, it will break it by like barely anything.

00:10:42 ◼   ► Like I reckon it will be like as close to two hours as they can get it.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:47 ◼   ► It's not going to be Jimmy Iovine link.

00:10:48 ◼   ► That's for sure.

00:10:49 ◼   ► It's going to be in the ballpark of 120.

00:10:50 ◼   ► That WBC was horrible.

00:10:53 ◼   ► That was, I remember I was watching it in a, um, like an event watching party that the

00:10:59 ◼   ► release notes conference put on.

00:11:02 ◼   ► And I'm not sure if I've ever needed to use the bathroom more in my life by the end of

00:11:06 ◼   ► that.

00:11:07 ◼   ► Schmoozy showbiz services talk should not be in a WWDC key.

00:11:13 ◼   ► And just the amount of guests that they had and like the amount of executives they had

00:11:16 ◼   ► all just for Apple music.

00:11:18 ◼   ► That was all it was for an hour for Apple music.

00:11:20 ◼   ► It was so ridiculous.

00:11:21 ◼   ► It was not good.

00:11:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Not great.

00:11:25 ◼   ► But we don't have to worry about that for this time.

00:11:27 ◼   ► It's going to be great.

00:11:28 ◼   ► Probably not.

00:11:29 ◼   ► You got to hope.

00:11:30 ◼   ► But I mean, I think one of the reasons, the problems that they had is it was just, it

00:11:33 ◼   ► wasn't tightly edited.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Right?

00:11:35 ◼   ► Like that was the issue.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:11:37 ◼   ► It's it's live.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And if you ramble in your, on the current Apple videos, they just cut you down or cut

00:11:42 ◼   ► you out.

00:11:43 ◼   ► But back then you're on stage, you're Jimmy Iovine, you're Eddy Cue, you're out there

00:11:46 ◼   ► on stage.

00:11:47 ◼   ► There is no comical hook, vaudeville style hook to like pull you off the stage.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Like no, that's it.

00:11:56 ◼   ► That's enough.

00:11:57 ◼   ► So they're just out there rambling and wasting time.

00:12:00 ◼   ► So yeah, they don't do that anymore.

00:12:01 ◼   ► They'll cut you out or they'll tell you to tell you to snap it, snap it up while they're

00:12:05 ◼   ► recording it and just figure it out.

00:12:07 ◼   ► Was there Apple TV stuff in that one too?

00:12:11 ◼   ► I don't remember.

00:12:13 ◼   ► Because I...

00:12:14 ◼   ► That was a long time ago.

00:12:15 ◼   ► I believe that there was a keynote.

00:12:17 ◼   ► If not that one where I think it was that one that they stretched it for time because

00:12:21 ◼   ► they didn't have some deals done for Apple TV.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Is that something that...

00:12:24 ◼   ► Ah.

00:12:25 ◼   ► But that doesn't make any sense why you would need to stretch it for time.

00:12:28 ◼   ► It's like it's not like you need a minimum requirement.

00:12:31 ◼   ► But yeah, it kind of the keynote kind of went off the rails a little bit because something

00:12:34 ◼   ► had to get cut.

00:12:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

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00:14:44 ◼   ► So we move into the first 4 picks, the first round.

00:14:50 ◼   ► Which is iOS and iPadOS.

00:14:55 ◼   ► As the winner of the previous draft I will get to go first.

00:14:58 ◼   ► And that's the way I tend to do things.

00:15:00 ◼   ► I have my little list here that I've compiled, you know, like I've gone in and made my

00:15:04 ◼   ► own list based on our list and ranked them.

00:15:08 ◼   ► And I'm going to go with widgets on the iPad lock screen as my first pick.

00:15:17 ◼   ► We have like this long list of stuff right?

00:15:19 ◼   ► And I'm kind of stuck a little bit in trying to guess what I think is the most likely stuff

00:15:28 ◼   ► to be added in a year where iOS and iPadOS may not be the focus.

00:15:34 ◼   ► And also what I'm trying to wonder is what are they going to show in the keynote?

00:15:40 ◼   ► And I think this is a visual thing they could show for the iPad that we may immediately

00:15:46 ◼   ► be able to understand if they haven't spent a lot of time on iPadOS itself.

00:15:53 ◼   ► So that's kind of where I'm thinking they're going to go.

00:15:56 ◼   ► And I'm using for that like a previous recipe I'm trying to think of, like a previous

00:16:06 ◼   ► like trend of Apple introduces something for the iPad and then the next year we see it

00:16:12 ◼   ► on the iPad.

00:16:14 ◼   ► And I feel like lock screen widgets on the iPad is something that should exist.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Like it makes a lot of sense to do that.

00:16:19 ◼   ► So this is what I'm expecting.

00:16:21 ◼   ► Well Mike, you'll be happy to know that that was my top choice.

00:16:24 ◼   ► Oh great.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Well, please stay you agree with me.

00:16:26 ◼   ► The sound that you made initially, I felt like I had to justify myself.

00:16:29 ◼   ► I was like, oh no.

00:16:30 ◼   ► I mean, you always have to justify yourself, but no, that was, I was surprised that you

00:16:36 ◼   ► picked it, but I had it at the top of my list.

00:16:39 ◼   ► So you know, you're playing to win.

00:16:41 ◼   ► I appreciate that.

00:16:42 ◼   ► Oh, I am 100% playing to win.

00:16:44 ◼   ► I've had a taste of the winning life and I want to keep my, I don't want to turn this

00:16:47 ◼   ► pendant around Jason Sehle.

00:16:49 ◼   ► I know I get it.

00:16:52 ◼   ► I am going to choose the health app on the iPad for my pick.

00:16:56 ◼   ► There's some rumors out there.

00:16:57 ◼   ► Mark Gurman said it would happen.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Part of this is as always wish casting on my part.

00:17:01 ◼   ► I think that it should be on the iPad.

00:17:03 ◼   ► I think that having that information available on the iPad makes sense.

00:17:07 ◼   ► It's frustrating that it's only on the iPhone.

00:17:09 ◼   ► And since there is a credible rumor out there that it's going to happen, I've decided to

00:17:13 ◼   ► just step up and pick it.

00:17:16 ◼   ► Time to get that thing on the iPad.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Health is, should not be limited to one device.

00:17:22 ◼   ► You have to remind me here.

00:17:23 ◼   ► If this was to exist, would my iPhone's data sync to my iPad?

00:17:29 ◼   ► I think it would have to, right?

00:17:31 ◼   ► I mean, maybe, maybe if you were, I mean, this is the question, right?

00:17:35 ◼   ► It's like Apple watch only does it with the iPhone, like doing fitness.

00:17:40 ◼   ► But can't you do fitness without the Apple watch now?

00:17:46 ◼   ► And yeah, I mean, I think that implicit in the idea of the health app on the iPad is

00:17:49 ◼   ► that they would do some end to end encryption of your health data and be able to sync it

00:17:54 ◼   ► between devices.

00:17:55 ◼   ► So I hope that's what they did.

00:17:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:57 ◼   ► I mean, I know that they do the end to end encryption and I'm hoping that there'll be

00:18:01 ◼   ► some way for that to then find its way onto my iPad, right?

00:18:05 ◼   ► Like my iPad could also have the key to unlock it because that would be the benefit.

00:18:10 ◼   ► It is one of those things when I, every time people say the health app should come to the

00:18:14 ◼   ► iPad, my first thought is, wait, the health app is not on the iPad.

00:18:17 ◼   ► Like it just feels like a fitness is there.

00:18:21 ◼   ► I have all this health data from my runs and all my Apple watch data syncs to my iPhone.

00:18:28 ◼   ► And I always want to look at it when I'm using my iPad and I can't.

00:18:34 ◼   ► And I have to go to my iPhone and I admit I am more iPad focused than iPhone focused,

00:18:39 ◼   ► but like, surely I'm not the only one like that.

00:18:42 ◼   ► And it doesn't seem reasonable that my health data is only located on that one iPhone.

00:18:47 ◼   ► I would like it to be on my other device is certainly on my iPad.

00:18:50 ◼   ► If I at least wish to have it all sync.

00:18:52 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm, but again, there was also a rumor out there that this was going to happen.

00:18:57 ◼   ► So it's not, I'm not completely, I wouldn't pick this if there was no rumblings about

00:19:00 ◼   ► it, but it sounds like this is something that may actually happen.

00:19:03 ◼   ► So talking about potential apps that may be finding their way onto iOS that have been

00:19:10 ◼   ► rumored.

00:19:11 ◼   ► My second pick in the draft will be the introduction of a journaling app for iOS and iPad.

00:19:16 ◼   ► I was a little shaky on this thing.

00:19:21 ◼   ► But a few days ago, Mark Gummum published a report also kind of confirming that it's

00:19:25 ◼   ► coming.

00:19:26 ◼   ► I have a lot, I have more questions on this than the health app, for example, right?

00:19:33 ◼   ► Because like the health app is just bringing over something existing.

00:19:36 ◼   ► But the journaling app, I'm really intrigued to see exactly what it is Apple's going to

00:19:40 ◼   ► do.

00:19:41 ◼   ► And when thinking about iOS and iPadOS maybe having as not high a focus as normal, this

00:19:52 ◼   ► feels like something you could put into iOS 17, even though realistically it probably

00:19:57 ◼   ► doesn't need that.

00:19:58 ◼   ► You know, like this is building on a set of existing technologies surely that Apple has,

00:20:04 ◼   ► but they're going to put it into iOS 17 as an iOS 17 feature.

00:20:08 ◼   ► It would just be a new app from Apple.

00:20:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree with you.

00:20:13 ◼   ► This is a really exciting category.

00:20:14 ◼   ► I had it on my list, but I decided to go with, for my pick, the broader choice, which was

00:20:18 ◼   ► also on our list, which is a new Apple default app on iPad or iPhone.

00:20:24 ◼   ► What would that mean in this circumstance like for this year?

00:20:28 ◼   ► I mean, it's if the journaling app is not in the app store, but is on the device pre-installed

00:20:34 ◼   ► or if they do a password thing, which is another one of our individual choices.

00:20:39 ◼   ► That's how I interpret it.

00:20:41 ◼   ► They'll add an app to the collection of apps that just comes with your phone.

00:20:46 ◼   ► How would we know that?

00:20:49 ◼   ► Like the journaling app, how would we know it comes pre-installed?

00:20:52 ◼   ► Why is it on our list if we wouldn't know it?

00:20:53 ◼   ► Yeah, but the way I've always assumed default app was kind of like, "Hmm, hmm."

00:21:00 ◼   ► I was thinking about it in different terms, but...

00:21:05 ◼   ► Well, yeah.

00:21:07 ◼   ► I highlighted it very much as like, I think they're going to add an app and then you could

00:21:11 ◼   ► also pick passwords or journaling if you wanted to.

00:21:13 ◼   ► You pick journaling.

00:21:14 ◼   ► I'm like, "Well, I don't know.

00:21:15 ◼   ► That was lower down on my list."

00:21:17 ◼   ► Because I'm like, "And app, I feel like there's a higher chance of that than this."

00:21:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I wonder what were you thinking by this?

00:21:24 ◼   ► Because I can take it out.

00:21:25 ◼   ► I think this maybe shouldn't have been in the list this year because we had the Postos

00:21:28 ◼   ► and journaling app.

00:21:29 ◼   ► I always kind of considered this as like some...

00:21:32 ◼   ► Is this recycled from last year?

00:21:34 ◼   ► That was one of the recycled ones.

00:21:35 ◼   ► I do think that maybe if we're going to have the passwords and journaling apps, we should

00:21:40 ◼   ► maybe have not had that one in there.

00:21:42 ◼   ► All right, that's fair.

00:21:44 ◼   ► I will withdraw it then.

00:21:45 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:21:46 ◼   ► And I'm going to go in a different direction.

00:21:47 ◼   ► Look at this sportspersonship going on over here.

00:21:50 ◼   ► Yeah, it's happening.

00:21:51 ◼   ► This is how really calm predictions are made.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Gentlemen like.

00:21:55 ◼   ► Yeah, on the Connected podcast, somebody would pick it and then everybody would agree that

00:22:00 ◼   ► it was invalid, but they couldn't change the pick.

00:22:03 ◼   ► But it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

00:22:04 ◼   ► It's too late.

00:22:05 ◼   ► It's too late.

00:22:06 ◼   ► Yeah, or let's amend that for next time.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Okay, I'm going to go with iPad support.

00:22:14 ◼   ► iPad with stage manager on an external display will work with closed.

00:22:20 ◼   ► Wow.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Wow.

00:22:23 ◼   ► Okay.

00:22:24 ◼   ► Are you wish casting here?

00:22:26 ◼   ► Or do you really think they're going to do this?

00:22:29 ◼   ► I really think they're going to do it.

00:22:30 ◼   ► I think that this is something they just left on the table and that there's been enough

00:22:35 ◼   ► complaint about it and there's enough of a use case for this.

00:22:37 ◼   ► I think actually having the iPad screen on when you're attached to an external display,

00:22:43 ◼   ► it makes everything worse.

00:22:45 ◼   ► Because one of the things that happens with stage managers, it starts sending things back

00:22:50 ◼   ► to the iPad screen, which at least when I use it, like I don't want, when I've got a

00:22:55 ◼   ► big screen in front of me and then the iPad is off to the side or down below or whatever,

00:22:58 ◼   ► I don't want things on the iPad screen.

00:23:01 ◼   ► I want them not on the iPad screen.

00:23:04 ◼   ► So I think that this is a thing for them to do to actually make the iPad experience better

00:23:10 ◼   ► by offering this.

00:23:11 ◼   ► All right.

00:23:13 ◼   ► Third pick, control center redesign.

00:23:16 ◼   ► Wow.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:18 ◼   ► It's time.

00:23:19 ◼   ► This one was rumored really early on.

00:23:25 ◼   ► This was one of the rumors when the discussion around iOS 17 was not much going on.

00:23:32 ◼   ► This is before some of this app stuff that we've been hearing about, which is talking

00:23:36 ◼   ► about.

00:23:37 ◼   ► I feel like that this is when we spoke about it at the time when it came up in Rumor Roundup.

00:23:43 ◼   ► It is a design that has stuck around for a decade, realistically.

00:23:49 ◼   ► Visually so similar still to iOS 17.

00:23:52 ◼   ► It's just kind of moved a bunch.

00:23:54 ◼   ► It used to be at the bottom.

00:23:56 ◼   ► Now it comes from the top and now it takes over the whole screen.

00:23:59 ◼   ► I just feel like that there are much better ways of showing this kind of information than

00:24:05 ◼   ► this like weird semi-transparent button thing that they've got going on right now.

00:24:11 ◼   ► I want it to happen.

00:24:13 ◼   ► Haven't heard about it in a while, but you're right.

00:24:14 ◼   ► There was a credible rumor about that, which makes it more than wish casting.

00:24:17 ◼   ► I would love to see it.

00:24:18 ◼   ► I think we did an episode where we talked about it in detail, the idea of being able

00:24:22 ◼   ► to customize it much more and we complained about the way that home stuff is in there.

00:24:28 ◼   ► You can't turn it.

00:24:30 ◼   ► It's going to pick what it's going to pick.

00:24:34 ◼   ► I would love to see that.

00:24:36 ◼   ► We had two in our list that I think we maybe should merge together because I think they

00:24:39 ◼   ► mean the same thing, which is more functionality for the lock screen slash always on functionality.

00:24:47 ◼   ► That's definitely meant to be the same.

00:24:49 ◼   ► That's the same thing.

00:24:50 ◼   ► So I'm going to pick it.

00:24:54 ◼   ► It was coming up for me very shortly, that one.

00:24:57 ◼   ► This is the idea that one, they introduced all the lock screen stuff last time and they

00:25:02 ◼   ► may add functionality there in terms of maybe expanded widgets, who knows what.

00:25:09 ◼   ► But also I think it encompasses this late breaking Mark Gurman rumor, which is this

00:25:14 ◼   ► idea that just came out last week.

00:25:16 ◼   ► We haven't even talked about it on the show because we did our last rumor roundup last

00:25:21 ◼   ► week.

00:25:22 ◼   ► But this idea that there's going to be kind of a, it's almost like nightstand mode for

00:25:28 ◼   ► the Apple watch, except for the iPhone where you put it on its side and it gives you a

00:25:34 ◼   ► nightstand thing where it's got like a different interface and it's just meant to be an ambient

00:25:41 ◼   ► display for when you're in that mode.

00:25:44 ◼   ► And that's really interesting too.

00:25:46 ◼   ► But I think between those two ideas that they're going to work on this stuff and they're going

00:25:51 ◼   ► to tweak the lock screen or add this new mode.

00:25:55 ◼   ► Once you've gotten always on display, those are the two things you can do, right?

00:25:58 ◼   ► You could add more content to the existing feature or you could also make a variation

00:26:02 ◼   ► on the feature.

00:26:03 ◼   ► And I love nightstand mode on my Apple watch.

00:26:06 ◼   ► That's what I use every single night.

00:26:09 ◼   ► I don't leave the iPhone by the side of the bed, but I know a lot of people do.

00:26:13 ◼   ► And this might actually be a pretty great feature.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Or if you just got a dock somewhere, if you could put information on it and have it actually

00:26:19 ◼   ► visible when it's on your desk or wherever, that's cool too.

00:26:23 ◼   ► So I think there's something there.

00:26:25 ◼   ► I don't know what, but something.

00:26:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:26:29 ◼   ► I would love to see this on the iPad more than the iPhone.

00:26:31 ◼   ► - I know, I know.

00:26:33 ◼   ► - But obviously there is a benefit to having this on an always on display.

00:26:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:26:39 ◼   ► - Right?

00:26:40 ◼   ► - And then on a display that you then have to keep on all the time and just really drain

00:26:44 ◼   ► the battery down.

00:26:45 ◼   ► So.

00:26:46 ◼   ► - Right.

00:26:47 ◼   ► Although, I mean, again, it's one of those things that if I were tasked, if I were at

00:26:49 ◼   ► Apple and I was tasked with this idea for the iPad, I would say, well, what do we have?

00:26:54 ◼   ► Like we have cameras and we have the infrared dot projector and sensor and like, could we

00:26:59 ◼   ► do, cause like my cheap kitchen appliance devices, both back when I had the Echo Show

00:27:04 ◼   ► and now that I've got the Nest Home, like they've got a sensor that's like, it knows,

00:27:11 ◼   ► first off it knows what time it is.

00:27:13 ◼   ► It knows what, how much light there is.

00:27:15 ◼   ► And then it knows if there's like movement in front of it and it adjusts accordingly.

00:27:18 ◼   ► So like you could potentially do that with the iPad based on the stuff that's already

00:27:22 ◼   ► there.

00:27:23 ◼   ► And wouldn't that be nice to have this feature where you could set an iPad in your kitchen

00:27:27 ◼   ► and it would, or anywhere really.

00:27:29 ◼   ► And it would behave in a certain way, depending on the time of day, show you information that's

00:27:36 ◼   ► useful, not just be kind of like an empty slab, but I don't know.

00:27:40 ◼   ► The Mark Gurman didn't actually say when he was reporting about this other feature, he

00:27:44 ◼   ► didn't actually say that it wasn't coming to the iPad.

00:27:46 ◼   ► What he did was the thing where he says, well, usually what they seem to be doing is bringing

00:27:50 ◼   ► it to the iPhone and then bringing it to the iPad.

00:27:53 ◼   ► And maybe that's what the plan is here is step one is put it on the iPhone.

00:27:57 ◼   ► And step two is, come out with that rumored kind of like dock product that goes with an

00:28:02 ◼   ► iPad that you could put in the kitchen and it would use this mode.

00:28:07 ◼   ► Maybe we'll get there, but yeah, start with the iPhone would be okay.

00:28:11 ◼   ► If they do bring it to the iPad, I think I get the points anyway, cause it's not specific

00:28:14 ◼   ► to that, but looking forward to it.

00:28:16 ◼   ► All right.

00:28:17 ◼   ► So we're onto our final pick for iOS and iPadOS and I'm really struggling between two.

00:28:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:28:22 ◼   ► And there's like, well, that's good.

00:28:25 ◼   ► Cause I've only got two left on my pick list and I was going to have to go into the dregs.

00:28:28 ◼   ► So I'm not going to say which, but I'll give you my problem.

00:28:32 ◼   ► There's one that I think is very possible, but might not get mentioned or shown.

00:28:37 ◼   ► And there's one that they would definitely spend time showing, but I'm not convinced

00:28:41 ◼   ► they're going to do it.

00:28:42 ◼   ► So this is, this is where I am with these two.

00:28:44 ◼   ► I know what, I know which one that one is.

00:28:46 ◼   ► I don't know about the other one, but I know which one that one is.

00:28:51 ◼   ► I'm going to go with the one that I think is maybe the most likely to happen, which

00:28:56 ◼   ► is more functionality for the dynamic island.

00:28:58 ◼   ► Oh, you had the same two that I did.

00:29:01 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:02 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:03 ◼   ► More.

00:29:04 ◼   ► You, you think this is, but here's the thing is I, I'm not convinced that there'll be more

00:29:07 ◼   ► functionality for the dynamic island.

00:29:08 ◼   ► I want there to be.

00:29:09 ◼   ► I'm not convinced.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Cause the dynamic island is great, but I'm not convinced that after year one with the

00:29:14 ◼   ► dynamic island, that they're going to do anything other than just keep the dynamic island.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:19 ◼   ► So there could be more stuff around live activities.

00:29:22 ◼   ► There are things they could do.

00:29:23 ◼   ► And I see this as a potentially more likely thing than probably what you're going to say,

00:29:29 ◼   ► which is interactive widgets, I'm assuming.

00:29:34 ◼   ► So let's just, let's just put that out there.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Let's just put it on the table and talk about the both of them.

00:29:38 ◼   ► That's that's the one that we, we both have the same two as our next pick.

00:29:41 ◼   ► So interactive widgets feels like if they do that, they're going to show that off and

00:29:45 ◼   ► spend a bunch of time with it.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:47 ◼   ► But I'm not sure they're going to do it.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Oh, and also there is, this may form part of a different operating system and they just

00:29:55 ◼   ► show it during the operating system and don't talk about it in iOS.

00:29:59 ◼   ► And then later on in the state of the union say, Oh, and by the way, you can now bring

00:30:03 ◼   ► these features over to iOS.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Cause like a lot of the time when I'm thinking about the draft here this year is what are

00:30:09 ◼   ► they just not going to say so they can cut time?

00:30:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:13 ◼   ► Cause that's the truth of it, right?

00:30:14 ◼   ► There there we, I would almost guarantee there are going to be features that we at least

00:30:18 ◼   ► if not picked, we have in our, our list of potential picks that are totally going to

00:30:23 ◼   ► happen and either not appear in the keynote at all or appear in the keynote as a bullet

00:30:28 ◼   ► point on a slide when they normally would have had a demo because they're just cutting

00:30:32 ◼   ► stuff and, and we have a pick later, a stagecraft pick, but I'll give you a hint about it now.

00:30:37 ◼   ► It's the footnote in the middle of the keynote that says state of the union.

00:30:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:43 ◼   ► I made another video that explains more about all of this because we can't get it in here.

00:30:50 ◼   ► What's the state of the union of video last year?

00:30:52 ◼   ► Like it was prerecorded too?

00:30:54 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:30:55 ◼   ► They're all, they're all prerecorded.

00:30:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:57 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:58 ◼   ► I wasn't sure about that one, but yeah, it makes sense.

00:30:59 ◼   ► All right.

00:31:00 ◼   ► So that is the end of the iOS and iPadOS round.

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00:33:36 ◼   ► So we move into a brand new round in the draft.

00:33:39 ◼   ► It's not often that we add an entire new category.

00:33:43 ◼   ► I know, but we have to do it.

00:33:46 ◼   ► And this is the category that is receiving the most picks this year.

00:33:50 ◼   ► There are five picks in the headset category.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Yeah, here we are.

00:33:57 ◼   ► I hope it happens.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Otherwise these five picks will just be a footnote.

00:34:01 ◼   ► That is not the first time that that has happened to us.

00:34:04 ◼   ► It's true.

00:34:05 ◼   ► Right?

00:34:06 ◼   ► We did.

00:34:07 ◼   ► I don't remember what draft it was, but when we were expecting, I think it was in 2020

00:34:10 ◼   ► when they did the watch and the iPad and we made iPhone picks, but there was no iPhone

00:34:16 ◼   ► in that.

00:34:17 ◼   ► There was no iPhone.

00:34:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:19 ◼   ► Good times.

00:34:20 ◼   ► Okay.

00:34:22 ◼   ► My top pick for the headset, no headset pricing announced.

00:34:29 ◼   ► Oh, that was on my list.

00:34:31 ◼   ► That was definitely on my list.

00:34:33 ◼   ► That's a good pick.

00:34:35 ◼   ► They're not going to talk about it here, right?

00:34:37 ◼   ► Like I feel like no pricing information, probably no release information.

00:34:45 ◼   ► I expect they will make some reference to what, and there's more to tell you later on

00:34:50 ◼   ► this year.

00:34:51 ◼   ► I may say shipping later this year or something, right?

00:34:53 ◼   ► But no headset pricing will be announced.

00:34:58 ◼   ► I think that's fair.

00:34:59 ◼   ► James Thompson asks a good question in the discord that maybe we want to clarify.

00:35:03 ◼   ► What about developer pricing?

00:35:07 ◼   ► I don't really, I feel like we're looking for consumer, right?

00:35:10 ◼   ► Like a developer kit is not the headset, if that makes sense.

00:35:13 ◼   ► It could be anything.

00:35:15 ◼   ► No consumer headset pricing announced.

00:35:18 ◼   ► Good clarification to make, but that's kind of, I feel the spirit of the pick here.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:23 ◼   ► Oh, definitely.

00:35:24 ◼   ► For sure.

00:35:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:26 ◼   ► They're not going to do it, right?

00:35:27 ◼   ► They don't have to do it.

00:35:28 ◼   ► I don't think they're going to do it.

00:35:29 ◼   ► No.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Like it's not shipping.

00:35:31 ◼   ► Why, why give people more time to chew over that price if, um, if they don't have to and

00:35:36 ◼   ► they can just wait until anything can change right up until it comes out, right.

00:35:40 ◼   ► They might want to change it up or down depending on how people react.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:35:45 ◼   ► So I think that's a good pick.

00:35:47 ◼   ► I had that in my, high up in my list of picks.

00:35:50 ◼   ► I am going to just embrace the name Reality Pro.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Oh, wow.

00:36:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:36:02 ◼   ► Jason coming in hot with a naming pick.

00:36:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:06 ◼   ► Huh.

00:36:07 ◼   ► Well, there's again, lots of evidence out there that they've been trademarking Reality

00:36:12 ◼   ► Pro and Reality One and that Reality Pro is probably the high end one and Reality One

00:36:18 ◼   ► is probably the low end one that will come later.

00:36:21 ◼   ► And I it's got to have a name.

00:36:24 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:26 ◼   ► And I think it's Reality Pro.

00:36:28 ◼   ► So I'm just gonna, I'm gonna embrace it.

00:36:29 ◼   ► I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose it.

00:36:31 ◼   ► That's it.

00:36:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:36:35 ◼   ► I mean, if I was gonna go with a name, right?

00:36:40 ◼   ► Like my guess for a name, this would be the name out of all the names we've heard, right?

00:36:46 ◼   ► It was at the end, but like it was in the little pick, like my potential picks that

00:36:50 ◼   ► I made was Reality Pro, but it was actually my last pick of the ones that I whittled down.

00:36:58 ◼   ► Just because I don't, I don't feel sold on any of the names for anything really.

00:37:06 ◼   ► That's how I feel about the OS names too.

00:37:08 ◼   ► And we know that they can, they can change names and we know that they can misdirect,

00:37:11 ◼   ► but I feel like that's the name.

00:37:13 ◼   ► More just in that none of them are great.

00:37:17 ◼   ► So I just, I can't feel like I can put my finger on what they might particularly go

00:37:21 ◼   ► with.

00:37:22 ◼   ► Like this is called reality.

00:37:24 ◼   ► This might just be called reality.

00:37:26 ◼   ► Reality.

00:37:27 ◼   ► They may not have a pro because there isn't anything else.

00:37:30 ◼   ► So could be.

00:37:33 ◼   ► My second pick is headset will be quote shipping later this year.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:41 ◼   ► That would have been my next pick.

00:37:42 ◼   ► So then I was going to give any more information than just like later.

00:37:46 ◼   ► And I feel like they have to say something right.

00:37:50 ◼   ► And who knows that they might say next year.

00:37:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:37:53 ◼   ► I doubt it.

00:37:54 ◼   ► Well, that's it.

00:37:55 ◼   ► You could be wrong.

00:37:56 ◼   ► I think if they say by the end of the year, then you're right.

00:37:57 ◼   ► If they don't give a time, I think you're wrong.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Yes.

00:38:00 ◼   ► And if they say next year, you're wrong.

00:38:03 ◼   ► Basically anything else is shipping later this year.

00:38:07 ◼   ► Yep.

00:38:08 ◼   ► I think that's very likely to be the case.

00:38:11 ◼   ► So good pick.

00:38:13 ◼   ► Very much a good pick.

00:38:15 ◼   ► I am going to pick VR FaceTime demo.

00:38:21 ◼   ► This was going to be my next one.

00:38:23 ◼   ► I think communication and collaboration is just too important to Apple.

00:38:28 ◼   ► I think they've been laying the groundwork here.

00:38:31 ◼   ► FaceTime SharePlay, Memoji, like we...

00:38:35 ◼   ► Spoilers for an article I haven't yet written, but very clearly, Dan or I will write an article

00:38:41 ◼   ► sometime in late June or early July for Macworld, where we detail all of the foundational software

00:38:49 ◼   ► features that Apple has been building for the last five years in anticipation of announcing

00:38:54 ◼   ► this device.

00:38:56 ◼   ► And so I just, I can't see them not saying you're going to be able to communicate with

00:38:59 ◼   ► other people and it's going to be like, you're right together.

00:39:01 ◼   ► And that's going to be, and when I say FaceTime demo, I mean, if they call it something different,

00:39:05 ◼   ► we know what a VR FaceTime demo is.

00:39:07 ◼   ► It's VR communication where you're in a room with somebody else.

00:39:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:12 ◼   ► Like there are two people that are in different places that both wear headsets and they're

00:39:16 ◼   ► having a conversation.

00:39:17 ◼   ► That's VR FaceTime, but that's what they're going to call it.

00:39:20 ◼   ► Right?

00:39:21 ◼   ► Like, I feel like it will just be FaceTime.

00:39:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:23 ◼   ► It'll just be FaceTime.

00:39:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:25 ◼   ► I think so.

00:39:26 ◼   ► So I'm going to go in that vein and say VR Fitness Experience shown.

00:39:31 ◼   ► Oh, very good.

00:39:32 ◼   ► Very good.

00:39:33 ◼   ► Now, here's the thing though, about both of these things that we've just picked.

00:39:36 ◼   ► Now I expect that this is what they will need to do to show the device, but I did have this

00:39:42 ◼   ► thought of like, we were talking about the Apple Music demo where the problem with the

00:39:46 ◼   ► Apple Music demo at WWDC was it's just like a lot of things for a consumer at the developer

00:39:53 ◼   ► conference.

00:39:55 ◼   ► So it's like an interesting thing of like, here's just like how this thing works, which

00:39:59 ◼   ► is...

00:40:00 ◼   ► Will they withhold features like fitness?

00:40:03 ◼   ► Will they withhold some of that for the announcement and focus more on sort of like what the platform

00:40:09 ◼   ► is capable of doing and hold back some of these things and say, we're not going to show

00:40:14 ◼   ► you.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Like I think FaceTime is more likely as a collaboration thing than fitness, but fitness

00:40:18 ◼   ► is like, will they hold that back and say, oh, Apple Fitness is also on the heads up.

00:40:22 ◼   ► As we were talking about it, I've kind of talked myself out of it, but it's too late

00:40:25 ◼   ► now.

00:40:26 ◼   ► It's too late.

00:40:27 ◼   ► But yeah, I think of the two, and that was how I ranked them.

00:40:29 ◼   ► FaceTime is more likely for those reasons, just because realistically, that's what people

00:40:34 ◼   ► want to see.

00:40:35 ◼   ► They want to see like how are Apple going to demonstrate communication?

00:40:39 ◼   ► Like that is more important than fitness.

00:40:42 ◼   ► Fitness will, I am convinced, make up a part of the product, but that could be a, we'll

00:40:47 ◼   ► show you it in September situation, then we'll show you it now.

00:40:52 ◼   ► Yeah well we'll see.

00:40:54 ◼   ► I'm gonna, I don't like it, but I understand it and it's too consistent not to pick.

00:40:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna pick the external battery pack.

00:41:00 ◼   ► This is my next pick.

00:41:03 ◼   ► Just seems to like the signals are too strong that this is the story that they went with

00:41:08 ◼   ► a design that is lighter on your head, but requires you to have a little pack that you

00:41:14 ◼   ► put in a pocket.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And what I'm curious about, we haven't really talked about this a lot, is I've seen some

00:41:21 ◼   ► people make the comment like, okay you can watch a movie with this, but if the battery

00:41:24 ◼   ► life is only two hours, like you're not gonna be able to do it.

00:41:27 ◼   ► I kind of assume that there's gonna be a pass-through where you could plug the thing that you use

00:41:32 ◼   ► to charge the battery, you can also just plug it in and sit down to watch a movie and it'll

00:41:37 ◼   ► just run forever.

00:41:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:40 ◼   ► I think, I'm trying to remember now.

00:41:43 ◼   ► I think I remember a rumor suggesting from, I believe it's from Mark Gurman, that the

00:41:47 ◼   ► battery pack will connect via a MagSafe-like connector that locks, but there's also gonna

00:41:53 ◼   ► be a USB-C on it for like power and like maybe some data transfer or something.

00:42:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I expect you're right, that you'll be able to plug it into like a laptop power adapter

00:42:05 ◼   ► and just sit for hours and that will be how people will use it at their desks, for example.

00:42:10 ◼   ► At their desks, exactly.

00:42:11 ◼   ► Yep, yep.

00:42:12 ◼   ► That's not my pick, it's just the external battery.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, external battery pack is the pick and I think that's a good one and, you know,

00:42:19 ◼   ► this is one of those ones that I could imagine if this wasn't true, that would have been

00:42:23 ◼   ► corrected by now.

00:42:24 ◼   ► Yes, in fact, I was gonna say the reverse, which is if it had an external battery pack

00:42:28 ◼   ► and it hadn't leaked yet, Apple would totally leak it, because it's funny how we first heard

00:42:32 ◼   ► about this and we're like, "Oh, that's so inelegant, that's so not Apple," and now we're like,

00:42:36 ◼   ► "Yeah, that's totally what it's gonna be," right?

00:42:38 ◼   ► Like we've just kind of come to accept that it's gonna be like that.

00:42:41 ◼   ► I have been on board with this idea from the start.

00:42:43 ◼   ► I think this is a very, very good idea because VR headsets currently are too heavy.

00:42:47 ◼   ► They're just too heavy.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Well, this is in the design is how it works phase, right?

00:42:50 ◼   ► Which is from a pure Johnny Ive kind of like it all needs to be what it stripped down to

00:42:56 ◼   ► its fundamentals, right?

00:42:59 ◼   ► And having it just be an entirely self-contained object that you put on, I think is the design

00:43:06 ◼   ► ideal, but there's the design is how it works thing, which is like, that's really heavy

00:43:12 ◼   ► and unpleasant and you don't wanna use it.

00:43:15 ◼   ► And so you make a concession to the complexity of the hardware in exchange for the experience

00:43:23 ◼   ► being better.

00:43:24 ◼   ► And yeah, I agree.

00:43:25 ◼   ► I think that's probably the right decision.

00:43:27 ◼   ► And a single cable, like people say it get in your way.

00:43:29 ◼   ► Like the thing I'll have to say to you is like, did you have this problem when you used

00:43:32 ◼   ► an iPod?

00:43:33 ◼   ► Like, we all had cables.

00:43:36 ◼   ► It's a very easy way to do this.

00:43:37 ◼   ► You plug it in and then you just drop the battery pack down the inside of your shirt

00:43:41 ◼   ► and put it in your pocket.

00:43:42 ◼   ► Like this is very simple to get around.

00:43:44 ◼   ► Lots of ways to do it.

00:43:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:46 ◼   ► Like this won't be an issue.

00:43:48 ◼   ► It will be great.

00:43:49 ◼   ► I think it will make a much better experience than any of the meta headsets because it's

00:43:55 ◼   ► going to be just more comfortable to wear provided they get the rest of it right.

00:44:00 ◼   ► But the white part will definitely be a good thing.

00:44:03 ◼   ► I'm going to go back to the developer story a little bit and something that I think will

00:44:07 ◼   ► be shown off is iPad apps running in VR a demoed.

00:44:12 ◼   ► Yes.

00:44:13 ◼   ► This was next on my list.

00:44:14 ◼   ► In fact, this will be like one of the two part of the developer story, right?

00:44:17 ◼   ► That there will be a traditional app story.

00:44:23 ◼   ► How do you get your apps today into reality pro and ha and then how do you develop whole

00:44:31 ◼   ► new VR first experiences like they're the two concurrent things, which I think will

00:44:37 ◼   ► actually really benefit this product that there are two legitimate paths for getting

00:44:42 ◼   ► apps on the thing, you know, and I think that that will be helpful for people using it and

00:44:47 ◼   ► for its adoption in the long run that you'll be able to do everything you can currently

00:44:51 ◼   ► do on an iPad in theory.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Plus there are these full immersive experiences.

00:44:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:58 ◼   ► It makes sense.

00:44:59 ◼   ► It makes sense.

00:45:00 ◼   ► I agree with you.

00:45:01 ◼   ► Who was next on my list?

00:45:02 ◼   ► Who is next then?

00:45:04 ◼   ► Ooh, yeah.

00:45:05 ◼   ► Well, that's the question.

00:45:08 ◼   ► I'm going to go with a core AR feature that I think you've got to have in a product like

00:45:17 ◼   ► this, which is facial expression tracking.

00:45:22 ◼   ► Very good one.

00:45:23 ◼   ► Very, very good one.

00:45:24 ◼   ► The idea here is that it's going to have technology to look at your eyes and you're like, are

00:45:29 ◼   ► you closing your eyes?

00:45:31 ◼   ► Are you lifting an eyebrow?

00:45:33 ◼   ► Are you frowning?

00:45:35 ◼   ► It's going to be able to look at you and intuit your expression so that it can convey that

00:45:40 ◼   ► in an avatar in some way and that they'll talk about that.

00:45:44 ◼   ► There'll be a moment of like, yeah, and it matches what your eyes are doing.

00:45:50 ◼   ► And I'm not saying where that will happen, but I think that they'll have to mention we're

00:45:56 ◼   ► not going to make your avatar a completely opaque, just like a serial killer face that

00:46:04 ◼   ► has no expression.

00:46:06 ◼   ► We're going to do expressions and we're going to do it by watching your expressions and

00:46:09 ◼   ► conveying them in your avatar.

00:46:13 ◼   ► Just like they do with Memoji, where you can pose for a Memoji and it looks at your face.

00:46:19 ◼   ► It'll be like that.

00:46:20 ◼   ► It's going to look at your face and track those expressions.

00:46:25 ◼   ► The MetaQuest Pro has this.

00:46:27 ◼   ► So it has facial expression tracking sensors and in meeting environments, it makes a huge

00:46:35 ◼   ► difference because if you're talking to someone, they start thinking, they start looking up,

00:46:40 ◼   ► you get that.

00:46:42 ◼   ► You see them do that.

00:46:44 ◼   ► I think that it is for immersion in these environments, it is a pretty important thing.

00:46:51 ◼   ► And as well, if you're doing eye tracking as well, it's not a huge jump to imagine face

00:46:57 ◼   ► tracking.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Eye tracking has been mentioned for this thing for a long time, so they can do that foveated

00:47:02 ◼   ► rendering stuff, which is what the PlayStation headset does.

00:47:07 ◼   ► My final pick is this isn't the other side of the developer part, but I think will be

00:47:16 ◼   ► an interesting part of the device.

00:47:19 ◼   ► I think it will be one of the ways that they show really cool AR technology, which will

00:47:25 ◼   ► be that the headset has a mode to operate like a desktop computer experience.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Oh, all right.

00:47:32 ◼   ► So you're doing iPad apps and computer experience.

00:47:36 ◼   ► This was my next choice, but it feels less likely as a demo than the iPad thing.

00:47:41 ◼   ► What's that going to be like?

00:47:42 ◼   ► But yeah, the idea, this is the use case where it's like you can be anywhere and connect

00:47:48 ◼   ► to your Mac and have a big screen.

00:47:50 ◼   ► Here's what I'll ask you for the grading of this.

00:47:54 ◼   ► We say like, I see the Mac as part of it, but what if it was, you can also sit down

00:47:59 ◼   ► and use a keyboard and mouse to control the iPad apps?

00:48:03 ◼   ► That would be fine.

00:48:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Well, hmm.

00:48:06 ◼   ► I think the way to maybe to judge this is are there peripherals involved?

00:48:14 ◼   ► That's the, I feel like to me, that's the desktop computer experience part.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:20 ◼   ► I mean, it's like a virtual screen.

00:48:21 ◼   ► I was thinking more of it from the perspective of connect to a Mac.

00:48:23 ◼   ► Well, I think of that too.

00:48:25 ◼   ► I do think that too, because I also do think they'll have that.

00:48:28 ◼   ► I think that will be a really cool part of it.

00:48:30 ◼   ► But if they say, hey, you can run iPad apps.

00:48:31 ◼   ► And in fact, heck with that, you can run a whole giant screen with iPad apps on it.

00:48:38 ◼   ► And it's like a virtual screen and you've got a keyboard and a device or whatever.

00:48:43 ◼   ► It's like an actual stage manager thing, right?

00:48:46 ◼   ► I don't understand why you would do that.

00:48:48 ◼   ► That would be weird on the iPad, but yeah, I'm open to it.

00:48:51 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:48:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:53 ◼   ► I think you would do that because of the typing experience.

00:48:54 ◼   ► I think that the air typing...

00:48:56 ◼   ► Yeah, it's the pointing that's weirder, but the typing, yeah.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:59 ◼   ► The typing experience is going to be pretty key, I think, but cool.

00:49:03 ◼   ► Although I'm also a believer in this concept of the mixed reality input devices where you

00:49:08 ◼   ► have a physical keyboard and it recognizes that you have a physical keyboard and shows

00:49:13 ◼   ► it to you either a virtual analog or it just shows you a picture that that part of the

00:49:18 ◼   ► screen shows you your virtual keyboard or your real keyboard.

00:49:22 ◼   ► Something like that too.

00:49:24 ◼   ► It doesn't necessarily have to be pecking an imaginary keyboard.

00:49:27 ◼   ► It could be a real keyboard.

00:49:28 ◼   ► You could be typing on a keyboard that's not actually connected to the headset itself,

00:49:32 ◼   ► but it's picking it up.

00:49:33 ◼   ► That would be wild.

00:49:35 ◼   ► What's your final pick for the headset?

00:49:37 ◼   ► I have one more and it's going to be...

00:49:41 ◼   ► You know, if this was a consumer launch where I felt like the consumer story was important,

00:49:48 ◼   ► I would probably pick a content choice here like movies or sporting events being mentioned.

00:49:55 ◼   ► But as we said before, it's not.

00:49:58 ◼   ► It's the developer conference.

00:50:00 ◼   ► I think especially content like TV plus movies and sports.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:50:05 ◼   ► I can't imagine that they would spend too much time on that if at all at WWDC.

00:50:10 ◼   ► Well, unless they've got a story that's really impressive and they're really proud, but the

00:50:14 ◼   ► MLS season will be over before it ships, right?

00:50:18 ◼   ► So I'm going to go the other way and say that there'll be a technical announcement and it's

00:50:21 ◼   ► going to be an M2 chip powering the headset.

00:50:24 ◼   ► Now I could be wrong because they could have an R1 or whatever, but I think it's going

00:50:28 ◼   ► to be M2 family and it could be pro or it could be M2 or whatever, but they're going

00:50:33 ◼   ► to say something about it being an M2, essentially an M2.

00:50:38 ◼   ► I would actually even be okay if what they said was that it's basically an M2.

00:50:43 ◼   ► We took the M2 and that's what it's going to be.

00:50:46 ◼   ► I was going to say this.

00:50:47 ◼   ► That yes, it's either an M2 or they say we took the M2 and here's the R1, right?

00:50:54 ◼   ► Just the mentioning of the M2 chip somehow involved in this headset is what you need

00:51:02 ◼   ► for that.

00:51:03 ◼   ► I'm going to reword this as M2 chip mentioned is helping power the headset.

00:51:07 ◼   ► Because I would really expect they will have its own name because realistically they're

00:51:15 ◼   ► going to put other things on the chip that are specific to this.

00:51:20 ◼   ► They may just say we're bringing the power of the M2 to the headset.

00:51:27 ◼   ► Because does it need the same RAM requirement?

00:51:34 ◼   ► But what I'm thinking here is first off, fundamentally they have to talk about the specs.

00:51:38 ◼   ► They're going to talk about the specs.

00:51:39 ◼   ► They don't want to talk to developers about how powerful it is.

00:51:42 ◼   ► So I think since the M2 is currently their state of the art, I don't think it's going

00:51:46 ◼   ► to be the A whatever because they want to impress you.

00:51:50 ◼   ► So they're going to say it's the power of the M2.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Whether it's actually the M2 or not, they're going to say it.

00:51:58 ◼   ► One of the picks we had in here that neither of us chose, I think for good reason, is if

00:52:02 ◼   ► they will or will not mention competitors in this.

00:52:06 ◼   ► And I don't know if they will mention competitors by name or not, but I do think that they will

00:52:12 ◼   ► want to talk about the power of the headset.

00:52:23 ◼   ► And I think that they will maybe reference its power compared to other things.

00:52:31 ◼   ► You know, that we put a desktop class processor inside of our mixed reality headset.

00:52:39 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:52:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:41 ◼   ► No one else has done that.

00:52:42 ◼   ► Agreed.

00:52:43 ◼   ► Agreed.

00:52:44 ◼   ► If you enjoy this show and you'd like to get more of it, even this draft episode, you should

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00:52:51 ◼   ► You get no ads, you get bonus content every week, and you'll get access to the Relay

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00:52:56 ◼   ► Go to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up.

00:52:59 ◼   ► The Discord is awesome around this time of the year.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Everyone's focused on WWDC there.

00:53:04 ◼   ► We have channels that are focused on this stuff.

00:53:07 ◼   ► And when all of the live recordings are going on during WWDC week, that's where you'll be

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00:53:16 ◼   ► If you are subscribed to Upgrade Plus in the Upgrade Plus segment this week, we'll talk

00:53:20 ◼   ► about some of the things that were on our long list but didn't make it into our draft

00:53:25 ◼   ► predictions to help round out the overall picking that me and Jason think might occur

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00:53:39 ◼   ► content.

00:53:40 ◼   ► Thank you if you do.

00:53:42 ◼   ► So the other round we are in now.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Other includes Mac OS, watch OS, tv OS, services, and all other potential hardware.

00:53:53 ◼   ► It's a huge round.

00:53:56 ◼   ► And that said, I'd be surprised if more than a couple of points come out of this whole

00:54:02 ◼   ► round.

00:54:03 ◼   ► Yes, and I struggled to pick mine from this one.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Yeah, in fact in the document we only have four, which would be fine with me if we only

00:54:11 ◼   ► picked four here.

00:54:13 ◼   ► Yes.

00:54:15 ◼   ► I think we were only doing four, right?

00:54:17 ◼   ► Uh, I think it was gonna be five, but I don't care.

00:54:20 ◼   ► Let's do four.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Let's do four.

00:54:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:23 ◼   ► Okay, I'm gonna swing on this one.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:31 ◼   ► Watch OS now features a widget-like interface.

00:54:34 ◼   ► Well, that's a smart choice.

00:54:38 ◼   ► I agree.

00:54:39 ◼   ► I think I was just doing an interview with somebody for an article they're writing about

00:54:43 ◼   ► WWDC in advance and for mainstream media and they're like, "Is there anything else?"

00:54:48 ◼   ► And I said, "I don't know.

00:54:49 ◼   ► The Apple Watch is rumored to get a big overhaul and I'm actually interested in that.

00:54:53 ◼   ► I think it'll be quiet for everything else."

00:54:55 ◼   ► So I think this is a good pick.

00:54:56 ◼   ► I think that stuff happening on the Watch is a good idea.

00:55:00 ◼   ► You know, I think we spoke about it at the time and if this is the case, this may be

00:55:03 ◼   ► the most...

00:55:04 ◼   ► This is gonna be the most time they spend on any other platform, right?

00:55:10 ◼   ► If they've really gone to it and given Watch OS a whole rethink, I think it would be nice

00:55:14 ◼   ► to explore that a little bit.

00:55:16 ◼   ► That would be my hope, I think, of all of the platforms that I use.

00:55:21 ◼   ► This year, it's the one I would like them to do the most with.

00:55:24 ◼   ► I'm good with iOS.

00:55:26 ◼   ► I'm good with Mac OS, but I think the Watch needs its rethink time and I would really

00:55:33 ◼   ► appreciate if they gave it that.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

00:55:38 ◼   ► I agree.

00:55:39 ◼   ► I feel like this is the time.

00:55:40 ◼   ► Well, Mike, there's not a lot here that I think is gonna happen, honestly.

00:55:45 ◼   ► So I'm just gonna go for the glory.

00:55:47 ◼   ► I'm gonna go for the glory.

00:55:48 ◼   ► Oh, here he goes, everyone.

00:55:49 ◼   ► It's glory time.

00:55:50 ◼   ► It is.

00:55:51 ◼   ► Get ready.

00:55:52 ◼   ► Are you ready?

00:55:53 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

00:55:54 ◼   ► Mac Pro teaser.

00:55:56 ◼   ► You mad, lad.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Mac Pro teaser.

00:56:00 ◼   ► Wow.

00:56:01 ◼   ► I don't know what form...

00:56:02 ◼   ► Nobody knows what form the Mac Pro teaser will take.

00:56:05 ◼   ► Maybe it'll just be a knowing glance from John Turnus going, "Remember that Mac Pro?"

00:56:08 ◼   ► "Eh, eh."

00:56:09 ◼   ► "Remember that promise I made?"

00:56:11 ◼   ► "Still promising."

00:56:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:13 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:56:14 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:56:16 ◼   ► Maybe it'll be, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, you don't get a Mac Pro."

00:56:18 ◼   ► That would technically be teasing.

00:56:19 ◼   ► There's one under this desk, but you can't use it.

00:56:21 ◼   ► You can't see it.

00:56:24 ◼   ► But if the...

00:56:26 ◼   ► Yeah, in fact, honestly, if it's Johnny Stroogy talking about something and next to his desk

00:56:32 ◼   ► is a humorously placed Mac Pro that's got a label on it saying "secret" or something,

00:56:37 ◼   ► that's probably a Mac Pro teaser.

00:56:38 ◼   ► But I just...

00:56:39 ◼   ► I'm gonna...

00:56:40 ◼   ► I don't think any of these things are gonna happen, so I'm just gonna choose that because

00:56:43 ◼   ► I do think there's at least a chance that at the developer conference they will say

00:56:46 ◼   ► something about their previous promise for the Mac Pro.

00:56:50 ◼   ► Mac Pro teaser.

00:56:51 ◼   ► Well, if we're going into Mac Land, I'm gonna pick the thing that I don't think belongs

00:56:57 ◼   ► here realistically, but if they're gonna do it, they'll probably need to do it here, and

00:57:04 ◼   ► that is the 15-inch MacBook Air.

00:57:06 ◼   ► All right.

00:57:07 ◼   ► It's not gonna happen.

00:57:08 ◼   ► You don't think so?

00:57:09 ◼   ► But why not?

00:57:10 ◼   ► Maybe it will.

00:57:11 ◼   ► What makes you say it will?

00:57:12 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:13 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:14 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:15 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:16 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:17 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:18 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:19 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:20 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:21 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:22 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:23 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:24 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:25 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:26 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:27 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:28 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:29 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:30 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:31 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:32 ◼   ► I'm proud to say that we're doing a 15 inch version

00:57:35 ◼   ► that's gonna be available next week.

00:57:37 ◼   ► And then they'll move on and it'll be a press release.

00:57:40 ◼   ► But why would you do that if you could wait three weeks

00:57:45 ◼   ► and have everybody cover it without covering

00:57:48 ◼   ► all the rest of the stuff?

00:57:49 ◼   ► I don't think it makes sense to just trickle it out

00:57:52 ◼   ► and it doesn't fit the day.

00:57:56 ◼   ► It doesn't fit the event, the occasion.

00:57:58 ◼   ► - I mean, did the 13 inch?

00:58:02 ◼   ► Did the M2 MacBook Air fit the occasion?

00:58:05 ◼   ► 'Cause they did it last time.

00:58:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, but they had room last time.

00:58:09 ◼   ► They weren't launching a major new platform is my argument.

00:58:11 ◼   ► - Well, I was thinking like,

00:58:13 ◼   ► if the hands-on area is happening, right?

00:58:15 ◼   ► And the hands-on area includes headsets.

00:58:17 ◼   ► And let's imagine the hands-on area includes demos

00:58:19 ◼   ► of the headset, which I actually don't think will happen,

00:58:21 ◼   ► but let's imagine that it does.

00:58:23 ◼   ► Or let's imagine there's like some cycle

00:58:25 ◼   ► you can just put it on and just look at it

00:58:26 ◼   ► through the thing, right?

00:58:28 ◼   ► There's not gonna be a lot of them.

00:58:29 ◼   ► They're gonna be pressed to do something

00:58:30 ◼   ► while they're waiting.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Get them to go take pictures of the MacBook Air instead.

00:58:34 ◼   ► - I guess.

00:58:36 ◼   ► I'm going to go back to the watch

00:58:40 ◼   ► and say smart complications that change based on data.

00:58:43 ◼   ► So basically an upgrade to complications

00:58:46 ◼   ► so that they are better and the slots will change

00:58:51 ◼   ► where the content in them can change based on status.

00:58:54 ◼   ► It's a dream I have.

00:58:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, I like this.

00:58:59 ◼   ► - This is the, like I was one of the judges

00:59:02 ◼   ► on the Mac stories, Automation April,

00:59:03 ◼   ► and one of the winners was a thing called Yes More Events.

00:59:08 ◼   ► And the entire premise of it is you have the,

00:59:10 ◼   ► you have a calendar widget that says no more events

00:59:13 ◼   ► when you don't have any more events that day.

00:59:15 ◼   ► And so what the shortcut does is create an event

00:59:17 ◼   ► at the end of the day with other information in it

00:59:19 ◼   ► that you might find valuable so that it says something

00:59:23 ◼   ► that is valuable instead of no more events.

00:59:26 ◼   ► And that's a great example.

00:59:28 ◼   ► Or if there's a timer running to show it happening,

00:59:32 ◼   ► the question would be, do complications matter as much

00:59:34 ◼   ► at all if there are widgets?

00:59:36 ◼   ► And I don't know the answer to that question,

00:59:38 ◼   ► but I'm going to pick it because this is like a glaring hole

00:59:42 ◼   ► in the whole concept of complications.

00:59:44 ◼   ► - Oh, I hate this round.

00:59:48 ◼   ► - Yep, it's not good.

00:59:53 ◼   ► - I have a pick.

00:59:55 ◼   ► I'm just going to make this pick,

00:59:56 ◼   ► but then I have a clarifying question.

00:59:57 ◼   ► - It's kind of fun though.

00:59:58 ◼   ► It's kind of fun picking things that you know

01:00:00 ◼   ► are just not going to happen and it's not going to matter

01:00:02 ◼   ► because your opponent is also going to pick things

01:00:04 ◼   ► that don't happen and don't matter.

01:00:05 ◼   ► - That's true, that's true.

01:00:06 ◼   ► I'm going to go with a new Apple Silicon chip is introduced.

01:00:09 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting.

01:00:12 ◼   ► - But I have a question.

01:00:13 ◼   ► - But it can't be related to the headset

01:00:14 ◼   ► because it's another pick.

01:00:15 ◼   ► - That's what I was going to say.

01:00:16 ◼   ► So should we say for the Mac at the end of that?

01:00:20 ◼   ► - Yes, sure, why not?

01:00:22 ◼   ► - A new Apple Silicon chip is introduced for the Mac.

01:00:23 ◼   ► - That's a ridiculous choice, go ahead.

01:00:25 ◼   ► - Well, you know what else is ridiculous, Jason?

01:00:26 ◼   ► I'm not a Mac Pro teaser, but if it is the Mac Pro,

01:00:28 ◼   ► maybe I piggyback with you.

01:00:31 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:00:32 ◼   ► - You know, they're like, here's the Mac Pro

01:00:34 ◼   ► and it's coming with our most powerful

01:00:36 ◼   ► Mac Apple Silicon chip ever.

01:00:39 ◼   ► It's called M27, because that's how long

01:00:42 ◼   ► you're going to wait for the Mac Pro.

01:00:44 ◼   ► It's 23 years away.

01:00:46 ◼   ► - Sure, that could happen.

01:00:47 ◼   ► You're going to be really mad if I nail

01:00:50 ◼   ► a couple of these other picks and that's how I win.

01:00:53 ◼   ► - Not really, I'll be impressed.

01:00:56 ◼   ► - Honestly, I don't think I'll be mad.

01:00:59 ◼   ► - That'd be a miracle if it happens.

01:01:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'll be too impressed of you

01:01:01 ◼   ► if you manage to win that way.

01:01:03 ◼   ► - Okay, I'm gonna, we're also like in the,

01:01:11 ◼   ► there's no evidence that these things are gonna happen.

01:01:13 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:14 ◼   ► - But I just wrote about this, we talked about it.

01:01:17 ◼   ► It's been a recurring segment here.

01:01:19 ◼   ► This is the official podcast of the Quad Box.

01:01:22 ◼   ► - Quad Box.

01:01:23 ◼   ► - Quad Box!

01:01:26 ◼   ► So I'm gonna pick it.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Apple recently brought the Quad Box to the TV app.

01:01:31 ◼   ► I'm gonna say TV OS announcement,

01:01:33 ◼   ► big headlining TV OS announcement,

01:01:36 ◼   ► multi-view support across the operating system.

01:01:38 ◼   ► Apps will have to be right into the API,

01:01:42 ◼   ► just like they wrote into the picture in picture API.

01:01:45 ◼   ► Although maybe it'll actually use the same thing

01:01:47 ◼   ► as the picture in picture API,

01:01:48 ◼   ► but you'll be able to put multiple items in the Quad Box.

01:01:54 ◼   ► The Quad Box.

01:01:55 ◼   ► It's a dream I have.

01:01:57 ◼   ► - Jason, I'm gonna just make my next pick

01:02:00 ◼   ► so I can talk about your pick.

01:02:02 ◼   ► My pick, my final pick in the other picks

01:02:05 ◼   ► is that TV OS is not mentioned during the keynote at all.

01:02:10 ◼   ► You might get your Quad Box,

01:02:12 ◼   ► but you know what you're not gonna find out about it?

01:02:14 ◼   ► In the keynote.

01:02:15 ◼   ► - In the keynote, yeah, I think you might be right.

01:02:18 ◼   ► I love a not mentioned pick, I love a buzzkill pick.

01:02:20 ◼   ► - Why?

01:02:21 ◼   ► I mean, look, I love TV OS.

01:02:22 ◼   ► I'm the official reviewer on the connected podcast

01:02:26 ◼   ► of TV OS every year.

01:02:27 ◼   ► If they spend any time talking about TV OS,

01:02:31 ◼   ► I think they're wasting their time.

01:02:33 ◼   ► It is a platform that even if you do something like say,

01:02:38 ◼   ► here's the Quad Box,

01:02:39 ◼   ► all of the services that are the most popular

01:02:43 ◼   ► don't use Apple's playing interface anymore.

01:02:47 ◼   ► Max just dropped it, right?

01:02:49 ◼   ► The new Max app.

01:02:50 ◼   ► There are more and more apps not using

01:02:52 ◼   ► the official Apple player than ever.

01:02:55 ◼   ► It just feels like it continues going on and on and on.

01:02:58 ◼   ► I just don't see it happening.

01:02:59 ◼   ► - What if they have a partner?

01:03:00 ◼   ► What if they bring up YouTube TV or they bring up ESPN

01:03:03 ◼   ► and say, yeah, we implemented this and it's great.

01:03:06 ◼   ► It just uses picture in picture interface and you do this

01:03:08 ◼   ► and then you can see our stuff next to Apple stuff, yay.

01:03:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, imagine if they did that.

01:03:14 ◼   ► Imagine if they did it during this keynote.

01:03:16 ◼   ► When they gonna speak YouTube time,

01:03:18 ◼   ► like come on YouTube, talk about it.

01:03:19 ◼   ► - They gotta talk about something.

01:03:21 ◼   ► They gotta talk about something, right?

01:03:23 ◼   ► Well, my next pick was gonna be TV OS related

01:03:28 ◼   ► because why not?

01:03:29 ◼   ► And now I'm looking at the picks

01:03:30 ◼   ► that I thought I was gonna pick

01:03:31 ◼   ► and I think they're all ridiculous.

01:03:33 ◼   ► And so I'm just gonna go off the board completely

01:03:36 ◼   ► to another random thing and I'm gonna say, you know what?

01:03:40 ◼   ► You know what's greater than a Mac Pro teaser?

01:03:42 ◼   ► Third party watch faces.

01:03:45 ◼   ► - My word Jason Snow.

01:03:46 ◼   ► - Third party watch faces, boom, done.

01:03:50 ◼   ► Just watch, just watch Mike, Mac Pro teaser,

01:03:53 ◼   ► third party watch faces.

01:03:54 ◼   ► I win the draft by one.

01:03:56 ◼   ► That'll be amazing.

01:03:57 ◼   ► - Honestly, if you do it, I mean, no one's gonna be mad.

01:04:01 ◼   ► - I know, game recognize game, right?

01:04:03 ◼   ► - I guess I'll have to.

01:04:08 ◼   ► All right, final regular round, stagecraft.

01:04:12 ◼   ► - Stagecraft.

01:04:15 ◼   ► I wanna, the reason you may ask yourself

01:04:17 ◼   ► why stagecraft picks?

01:04:18 ◼   ► Well, one is if we put these in other,

01:04:20 ◼   ► all of our picks would have been stagecraft.

01:04:22 ◼   ► - Correct.

01:04:23 ◼   ► - And so we're gonna force ourselves

01:04:25 ◼   ► to make just two stagecraft picks.

01:04:28 ◼   ► - And I'm gonna go with the gimme.

01:04:30 ◼   ► The guaranteed pick of all of the picks

01:04:34 ◼   ► that could ever occur during any WWDC,

01:04:38 ◼   ► Craig Federighi appearance.

01:04:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, I'm surprised that's even allowed

01:04:42 ◼   ► on the list, yes, it's there.

01:04:45 ◼   ► Nevertheless, we keep it going.

01:04:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, Craig Federighi appearance.

01:04:49 ◼   ► I think that's the best one.

01:04:50 ◼   ► I'm, you know, you can, I might be proven wrong,

01:04:57 ◼   ► but I think you can never go wrong with game demos.

01:04:59 ◼   ► - This is my second one.

01:05:00 ◼   ► They're gonna, I think at least have at least one VR game demo.

01:05:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think they have to.

01:05:08 ◼   ► - There was a rumor from Mark Gorman about

01:05:13 ◼   ► Hideo Kojima being involved in No Man's Sky.

01:05:15 ◼   ► That was absolute hogwash.

01:05:17 ◼   ► Like he's not involved in that game at all.

01:05:19 ◼   ► But No Man's Sky is a game that was,

01:05:22 ◼   ► like Hideo Kojima has been rumored

01:05:23 ◼   ► to be around Cupertino this week.

01:05:25 ◼   ► So maybe he's gonna be doing something for the headset.

01:05:28 ◼   ► But No Man's Sky, which was a game shown off ages ago,

01:05:32 ◼   ► is coming to Apple Silicon,

01:05:33 ◼   ► coming to Apple because of Apple Silicon,

01:05:35 ◼   ► it is yet to arrive,

01:05:36 ◼   ► but No Man's Sky has a very robust VR mode.

01:05:38 ◼   ► So it could be a very easy slot into this.

01:05:43 ◼   ► - My second and final pick in Stagecraft,

01:05:47 ◼   ► Metaverse is not said.

01:05:50 ◼   ► - Metaverse is not said.

01:05:52 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:05:53 ◼   ► - I think that's pretty good.

01:05:55 ◼   ► I mean, there might be a joke.

01:05:57 ◼   ► If the word appears anywhere in the keynote,

01:06:00 ◼   ► you lose this pick.

01:06:01 ◼   ► - Correct.

01:06:01 ◼   ► I don't think that's a pretty good pick.

01:06:05 ◼   ► - To mention it is basically acknowledging Facebook

01:06:11 ◼   ► and their lead, right?

01:06:13 ◼   ► And I just don't think they're gonna do it.

01:06:15 ◼   ► - I think you're probably right.

01:06:16 ◼   ► I think the reason that this is risky

01:06:18 ◼   ► is only that they may be like,

01:06:20 ◼   ► "You've heard of the Metaverse.

01:06:21 ◼   ► Well, forget that, right?

01:06:23 ◼   ► That dismissive of it."

01:06:24 ◼   ► - I don't know what's gonna happen.

01:06:26 ◼   ► - But I think you're right.

01:06:28 ◼   ► Okay, here's my last Stagecraft pick.

01:06:29 ◼   ► I mentioned this earlier,

01:06:33 ◼   ► you wanna just put it out there.

01:06:35 ◼   ► The way I phrased it is explicit exhortation

01:06:38 ◼   ► to watch the State of the Union for OS details.

01:06:40 ◼   ► But really what I'm saying is somewhere in this event,

01:06:43 ◼   ► I feel like they're gonna say,

01:06:45 ◼   ► "We have a whole lot more OS things to announce."

01:06:47 ◼   ► They're in the State of the Union,

01:06:48 ◼   ► which we'll post later this afternoon.

01:06:50 ◼   ► Something.

01:06:51 ◼   ► There will be a little footnote,

01:06:52 ◼   ► 'cause I feel like this is the kind of event

01:06:54 ◼   ► where they're kicking off WWDC,

01:06:56 ◼   ► but they're not gonna give as much time to the OS

01:06:58 ◼   ► as maybe they would normally.

01:07:00 ◼   ► And they're gonna be like pointing

01:07:01 ◼   ► at the State of the Union,

01:07:02 ◼   ► saying, "We made another video that's for boring OS things

01:07:06 ◼   ► that only developers care about.

01:07:07 ◼   ► Go watch that for more."

01:07:09 ◼   ► Because it's too packed.

01:07:10 ◼   ► So I'm just gonna, it's Stagecraft.

01:07:12 ◼   ► - Final round of the draft is the Mac OS.

01:07:17 ◼   ► My least favorite of every possible thing.

01:07:18 ◼   ► - Let's dive into California geography.

01:07:21 ◼   ► - Is the Mac OS naming round,

01:07:23 ◼   ► where we each get two potential names that we can give

01:07:27 ◼   ► that may form the Mac OS version.

01:07:31 ◼   ► And there is one point on the line for this.

01:07:34 ◼   ► I will just at this point publicly make my protest

01:07:36 ◼   ► for the existence of this round,

01:07:38 ◼   ► because I believe Jason Snell

01:07:40 ◼   ► has an advantage over me significantly.

01:07:42 ◼   ► It's almost as if, imagine they decided

01:07:45 ◼   ► to name Mac OS after English towns.

01:07:49 ◼   ► - So here's the thing.

01:07:51 ◼   ► This is why I disagree with you.

01:07:51 ◼   ► One is, I know too much about California.

01:07:55 ◼   ► And I think that that makes me overthink it,

01:07:58 ◼   ► because I'm thinking of like,

01:08:00 ◼   ► like with Ventura, it was an example where I'm like,

01:08:02 ◼   ► ah, Ventura is not that interesting.

01:08:05 ◼   ► Like I've been to Ventura County,

01:08:07 ◼   ► and it was Ventura, right?

01:08:09 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like a good name.

01:08:10 ◼   ► It's like an interesting name.

01:08:12 ◼   ► So I think that's part of the challenge here is,

01:08:14 ◼   ► I'm overthinking it, 'cause I'm thinking about the places.

01:08:17 ◼   ► Also, I'm providing you a list of things

01:08:19 ◼   ► I think it might be for you to pick from.

01:08:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I don't know what any of them means, you know?

01:08:23 ◼   ► But anyway, anyway. - You can look it up.

01:08:24 ◼   ► You can look them up.

01:08:26 ◼   ► Or is your ignorance and just looking at it as a brand name,

01:08:28 ◼   ► what Apple is also trying to do for people.

01:08:31 ◼   ► 'Cause most of Apple's customers don't know the names

01:08:34 ◼   ► of these things either, right?

01:08:35 ◼   ► So maybe you're better.

01:08:37 ◼   ► - You're making a good argument.

01:08:41 ◼   ► - That doesn't matter.

01:08:42 ◼   ► - I still don't like the round, but your argument's good.

01:08:45 ◼   ► - I get it.

01:08:45 ◼   ► - I'm gonna go with, should we do this one each, right?

01:08:49 ◼   ► So like, I do one, you do one, right?

01:08:51 ◼   ► I'm gonna go with what I think may have been

01:08:52 ◼   ► my favorite last year,

01:08:54 ◼   ► 'cause I actually do think it would be a nice name.

01:08:57 ◼   ► Mac OS Tahoe.

01:08:59 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:09:00 ◼   ► - I just like it. - It's a good name.

01:09:01 ◼   ► - I think it sounds nice.

01:09:03 ◼   ► My understanding, and I feel like the little I know

01:09:06 ◼   ► about Tahoe is that it's great in the summer

01:09:08 ◼   ► and in the winter.

01:09:09 ◼   ► So there's probably some good imagery you could get, right?

01:09:11 ◼   ► 'Cause it's got like the lakes and also the mountains.

01:09:15 ◼   ► Is that correct?

01:09:16 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:09:17 ◼   ► - So that'd be a nice one.

01:09:18 ◼   ► - I am going to go with,

01:09:24 ◼   ► so the last two have been Monterey and Ventura, right?

01:09:27 ◼   ► Both of which are coastal counties.

01:09:32 ◼   ► And Apple's never been afraid to pick a complicated name

01:09:37 ◼   ► that frustrates everybody who's not in California.

01:09:41 ◼   ► So I'm gonna pick with my first pick Mendocino.

01:09:45 ◼   ► - Hate it.

01:09:46 ◼   ► The way you spell this, like not you,

01:09:49 ◼   ► but the way it is spelled, M-E-N-D-O-C-I-N-O.

01:09:52 ◼   ► No, this is terrible. - Mendocino.

01:09:54 ◼   ► - I don't like it.

01:09:55 ◼   ► And you know what?

01:09:56 ◼   ► - And Federica will say Mendocino.

01:09:58 ◼   ► - Mendocino.

01:09:59 ◼   ► - Mendocino.

01:10:00 ◼   ► - My second pick, see, I don't know if I should do this.

01:10:03 ◼   ► So like I've made my picks and I was like,

01:10:05 ◼   ► I went and looked at last year's.

01:10:07 ◼   ► What I wanna pick as my second pick is exactly the same

01:10:09 ◼   ► as the second pick I made last time.

01:10:12 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:10:12 ◼   ► - So I would end up picking the same two things

01:10:14 ◼   ► two years in a row.

01:10:15 ◼   ► I think I'm just gonna go with my gut and do it.

01:10:17 ◼   ► Because again, I just think it's a good name.

01:10:20 ◼   ► Mac OS Golden Gate.

01:10:23 ◼   ► - Golden Gate's a good name.

01:10:24 ◼   ► It is a good name.

01:10:25 ◼   ► - I do wonder if they would save this for like a year

01:10:29 ◼   ► when they're really bridging it with iPad OS.

01:10:31 ◼   ► But I'm gonna go with Mac OS Golden Gate.

01:10:34 ◼   ► I like Tahoe and Golden Gate.

01:10:36 ◼   ► I'm going with two names that I just think sound good.

01:10:39 ◼   ► And I would like, although history has shown

01:10:42 ◼   ► they will not do that.

01:10:43 ◼   ► Mendocino.

01:10:47 ◼   ► - I, oh, there are still a bunch of good names here.

01:10:50 ◼   ► That's why I think it's good

01:10:52 ◼   ► that they went to the California names.

01:10:53 ◼   ► There's still a bunch of good names here.

01:10:55 ◼   ► - Mac OS North Antonshire.

01:10:58 ◼   ► - Hello mate.

01:10:59 ◼   ► This is Mac OS Islington.

01:11:02 ◼   ► Wow, this is a tough one.

01:11:10 ◼   ► - Can I just say, I love so much

01:11:15 ◼   ► that we still have Mac OS Alcatraz on this list

01:11:17 ◼   ► as if they would ever do that.

01:11:19 ◼   ► - We also have Mac OS Death Valley on this list

01:11:21 ◼   ► which you really would probably not name

01:11:24 ◼   ► an operating system after, but it's on the list.

01:11:26 ◼   ► 'Cause why not?

01:11:27 ◼   ► - I'm gonna go with Mammoth.

01:11:28 ◼   ► Mac OS Mammoth.

01:11:30 ◼   ► - I like that one. - Mammoth Lakes

01:11:31 ◼   ► is a volcanic area and a ski resort and a summer destination

01:11:36 ◼   ► and it's a fun name and it's an actual word

01:11:38 ◼   ► that people know.

01:11:39 ◼   ► And so Mac OS Mammoth, why not?

01:11:42 ◼   ► - You know, I wondered about Mammoth,

01:11:44 ◼   ► but I mean, I don't think they would care about this,

01:11:46 ◼   ► but I just feel like Mastodon has really wrapped up

01:11:49 ◼   ► all of that branding for now,

01:11:51 ◼   ► but they probably don't care about that.

01:11:53 ◼   ► - But they would just have mountains and snow and stuff.

01:11:56 ◼   ► - Mammoth I could see and I would like.

01:11:58 ◼   ► Like Mac OS Mammoth is a name that I would enjoy.

01:12:01 ◼   ► I would be so mad if they called it Mendocino

01:12:03 ◼   ► because I just don't like that at all.

01:12:05 ◼   ► - It's Mendocino.

01:12:06 ◼   ► - There you go.

01:12:07 ◼   ► Well, I'm gonna call it Mendocino.

01:12:08 ◼   ► - Indochino.

01:12:10 ◼   ► - That's what I'm gonna call it.

01:12:11 ◼   ► Mac OS Cappuccino.

01:12:13 ◼   ► And it doesn't work for me, but they work with Mavericks.

01:12:17 ◼   ► So the company that chose Mavericks

01:12:19 ◼   ► may choose literally anything

01:12:22 ◼   ► because Mavericks just sounded bad.

01:12:24 ◼   ► Mac OS Mavericks.

01:12:26 ◼   ► The fact that it has an S on the end just did not work.

01:12:29 ◼   ► - And also I'll say as a Californian,

01:12:32 ◼   ► nobody had ever heard of that place.

01:12:34 ◼   ► - What was it? A beach?

01:12:35 ◼   ► It was like a specific beach, right?

01:12:37 ◼   ► - It was like a ski.

01:12:37 ◼   ► It was like a surf area.

01:12:40 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

01:12:41 ◼   ► - No.

01:12:42 ◼   ► - That's the draft.

01:12:45 ◼   ► - That's it.

01:12:45 ◼   ► - We did it.

01:12:47 ◼   ► All the picks are out there.

01:12:48 ◼   ► - All that's left is the scoring.

01:12:51 ◼   ► - Which will happen.

01:12:52 ◼   ► - And a bit of recriminations.

01:12:54 ◼   ► - The scoring will occur on the ground

01:12:58 ◼   ► in which the picks will have come true.

01:13:02 ◼   ► I don't know, well, I'm basically saying

01:13:03 ◼   ► it will be at Apple Park next week.

01:13:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:13:06 ◼   ► - Which I'm super pumped for.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Very excited to see, and a bunch of friends

01:13:10 ◼   ► I haven't seen in a long time.

01:13:12 ◼   ► - Long time.

01:13:13 ◼   ► - And so we're looking forward to being in California,

01:13:16 ◼   ► soaking up the sun, and being inside of Apple Park,

01:13:20 ◼   ► watching the keynote, along with my friend, Jason Snell.

01:13:23 ◼   ► If you want to send us your feedback,

01:13:25 ◼   ► follow up and questions, you can go to upgradefeedback.com.

01:13:28 ◼   ► If you have things you want us to talk about

01:13:30 ◼   ► in the keynote, you can send them in there.

01:13:33 ◼   ► I will pre-warn people that if I do actually

01:13:37 ◼   ► make it to the keynote, I will be very excited

01:13:40 ◼   ► to talk about my keynote experience.

01:13:41 ◼   ► So just be aware of that.

01:13:43 ◼   ► That we're gonna be talking, obviously, about things,

01:13:46 ◼   ► but I will be a little excited bunny

01:13:47 ◼   ► and will want to talk about how happy I am

01:13:49 ◼   ► to have achieved a 15-year goal.

01:13:53 ◼   ► But in the meantime, and I'm sure during WWDC itself,

01:13:56 ◼   ► you will be wanting to keep locked to sixcolors.com

01:14:00 ◼   ► to check out Jason's work.

01:14:01 ◼   ► You can also hear Jason over at the incomparable.com

01:14:04 ◼   ► and here on Relay FM.

01:14:05 ◼   ► You can listen to me, my show's on Relay FM as well,

01:14:09 ◼   ► and check out my work at cortexbrand.com.

01:14:11 ◼   ► You can find us on Mastodon.

01:14:12 ◼   ► Jason is @jasonell on zeppelin.flights.

01:14:15 ◼   ► I am @imike on mike.social.

01:14:17 ◼   ► And you can find the show as @upgrade on relayfm.social,

01:14:21 ◼   ► where you can watch video clips along with our TikTok

01:14:24 ◼   ► and Instagram accounts where we are @upgraderelay on both.

01:14:28 ◼   ► Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus.

01:14:31 ◼   ► Thank you to Nom Nom and Dark Noise

01:14:33 ◼   ► for their support of this week's episode.

01:14:35 ◼   ► And most importantly, thank you for listening.

01:14:38 ◼   ► We will speak to you after the WWDC keynote.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:14:43 ◼   ► - See you next week, Mike.

01:14:45 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:14:47 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:14:50 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:14:53 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:14:55 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:14:58 ◼   ► (drumming)

01:15:00 ◼   ► Thank you for watching.