00:00:16 ◼ ► Ladder, and Factor. My name is Mike Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.
00:00:21 ◼ ► Hi, Mike Hurley. Where am I? You're at home, we're gonna talk about that later on. Jason's had a busy
00:00:28 ◼ ► morning, but that's gonna come up in follow-up because right now, I have a Snell Talk question
00:00:32 ◼ ► for you. It comes from Kevin, who wants to know, "Jason, if you're working on a document of some
00:00:37 ◼ ► kind that features formatting, do you apply the formatting as you go along, like bold text,
00:00:42 ◼ ► underlined text, etc., or do you do everything afterwards?" This is a weird... apologies to Kevin,
00:00:50 ◼ ► but I react to the idea that you write everything first and apply formatting later as almost like
00:00:57 ◼ ► like an a—coming from an alien. Yeah, yeah. I can see how maybe, if you're writing, first off,
00:01:04 ◼ ► I mean, most of the formatting I do is just the occasional link or bold or italic, and I just do
00:01:11 ◼ ► that as I write. Headers, I do those as I write because I'm writing in markdown. I can see how
00:01:17 ◼ ► you might, from time to time, end up having to go back through a document and put some structure to
00:01:21 ◼ ► it, and that that might be a reason to format it after the fact, but for the most part, to answer
00:01:26 ◼ ► the question directly, for the most part, no. I am doing the formatting as part of my creation of
00:01:38 ◼ ► I knew the answer to this as I started writing, entering this information, and I bolded Kevin's
00:01:44 ◼ ► name in the Google doc before I wrote it. You know, I pressed, you know, command B, and then
00:01:54 ◼ ► I was like, yeah, I know how I am. This was one of those questions to me too, where I was like,
00:01:59 ◼ ► I didn't think there was another way people did this. I may go back once a document's done and
00:02:05 ◼ ► add some stuff, but as I'm going through, if there's formatting I know I need, I'm going to
00:02:11 ◼ ► add it. This makes me feel like Kevin is one of the former rather than the latter, you know?
00:02:17 ◼ ► That Kevin applies all of the formatting at the end. Yeah, maybe so. Maybe not. Maybe Kevin
00:02:24 ◼ ► thought somebody else is a formatting alien and not him. I don't know. I just, I find it, again,
00:02:32 ◼ ► I think there are probably workflows where it makes sense to do your work on the document,
00:02:37 ◼ ► because there's complex formatting things to do afterward, but I never even consider that for the
00:02:44 ◼ ► stuff that I do. If you would like to send in a question of your own to be featured to help us
00:02:51 ◼ ► open an episode of Upgrade in the future, you can send in your Snell Talk question by going
00:02:56 ◼ ► to upgradefeedback.com or clicking the link in your show notes and you can submit your question
00:03:01 ◼ ► there. Thank you to everybody that does. We have some follow-up to Snell, including something new
00:03:08 ◼ ► for the show. So we've been talking about this mostly on Upgrade Plus, maybe over the last month
00:03:18 ◼ ► additional content every single week. But we are experimenting with making short video clips of the
00:03:24 ◼ ► show that we're posting on various social media outlets. Upgrade is not becoming a video podcast.
00:03:32 ◼ ► In fact, we have cameras recording us right now, but we do not see each other. We don't have them
00:03:38 ◼ ► turned on. They're just making local recordings so that the podcast remains an audio only experience.
00:03:44 ◼ ► It doesn't feature me saying, "Hey Jason, take a look at this." And none of you can see it.
00:03:48 ◼ ► So we thought long and hard about this and this is how we've been doing it and trying to test it out.
00:03:53 ◼ ► So we don't want to change the experience for you. But what we were trying to do here is to see,
00:03:58 ◼ ► it seems like this happens more and more these days that people make clips out of their podcasts.
00:04:03 ◼ ► Does it actually work in helping the show find new people? That's what we're trying to find out.
00:04:09 ◼ ► Yeah, we don't know. We don't know. It's fun right now. I think people who listen to the show
00:04:14 ◼ ► are having fun seeing the clips. I know the podcast I listen to that have started doing this.
00:04:21 ◼ ► And maybe down the road, it will help us find some new people. And that would be nice too.
00:04:28 ◼ ► But we're just experimenting with it. This may be a best practice in doing podcast promotion.
00:04:33 ◼ ► And we want to try it out in a way that doesn't actually impact the way we do the show.
00:04:38 ◼ ► So unless there's, I mean, it's possible we'll do like a Summer of Fun episode or something where we
00:04:43 ◼ ► do a special something and there's a video of it. But we're not planning on, like this is not
00:04:49 ◼ ► going to be a video podcast because we do not want that to be what it is. But we'll try to post short
00:04:55 ◼ ► clips of things on social media. TikTok and Instagram. I almost said TikTak. What we're
00:05:03 ◼ ► going to do is we're going to make breath mints. That's our pivot. Pivot to breath mints now.
00:05:12 ◼ ► Upgradebreath.com. I love it. No, we're not doing that. You can find, we're posting these to
00:05:19 ◼ ► Instagram and TikTok. You may have been given away the fact that me and Jason don't understand how to
00:05:24 ◼ ► use TikTok. It's just, look, I've been up a long time and it's still Monday morning. Friend of the
00:05:30 ◼ ► show and official video consultant, Jeremy Burge. Jeremy Burge is our, yes, he is, he, for those who
00:05:41 ◼ ► don't know Jeremy Burge, founder of Emojipedia, currently a gentleman of leisure, I believe,
00:05:45 ◼ ► after selling Emojipedia. One of the things that he has done is he is a TikTok star about boats.
00:05:56 ◼ ► About his boat in particular, his canal boat that he drives around, or pilots, I don't know,
00:06:01 ◼ ► in the canals in England. And he has learned a lot about posting little video clips to the socials,
00:06:08 ◼ ► and he's providing us advice and help. And we thank him for that. So I'm currently producing
00:06:14 ◼ ► all the clips. In the long run, that will probably have to go to someone else. But for now,
00:06:18 ◼ ► I'm trying to figure out what I want them to be like. And I would like, at some point, to add to
00:06:24 ◼ ► your list of things, Mike, note where you think there was a thing that happened that was fun that
00:06:30 ◼ ► might be worth a clip. That's good. I could do that while I'm taking my editing notes. While
00:06:34 ◼ ► you're taking your notes. I'll keep that in mind. That would help me. But yeah, we're just
00:06:38 ◼ ► experimenting with it. We're doing them as vertical videos, because again, the kids on the TikToks,
00:06:47 ◼ ► seriously, for this to make any sense, it has to hit algorithms. If we're doing this to try and
00:06:56 ◼ ► help new people find the show, you've got to be in the places where there's algorithms. Right now,
00:07:03 ◼ ► I like how you said that too. The places where there are algorithms. We need to find the
00:07:07 ◼ ► algorithms. Where are they? Get them in here. We can post this to Mastodon, and that's fine.
00:07:20 ◼ ► I've been posting them there as an experiment, and also because it's kind of fun. But yeah,
00:07:24 ◼ ► I think the idea is, what you want is to find people who will be inclined to discover the show,
00:07:31 ◼ ► because the algorithm has sort of said, this is the kind of content you might be interested in.
00:07:36 ◼ ► And get some new listeners, just because I think it's fun. And also because I think we're also
00:07:41 ◼ ► doing this because we don't want to be the kind of people who look at a thing that seems to be
00:07:47 ◼ ► a new way of doing podcast stuff, and be the people who are like, "No, no, no, no, no. Surely
00:07:56 ◼ ► it is the children who are wrong." Right? We don't want to be those people. I want to be open to this.
00:08:00 ◼ ► This may end up being impractical for us. It may not have a real benefit, and it may be too much
00:08:05 ◼ ► overhead. But I think we need to experiment with it and not just poo-poo it. So we're going to give
00:08:14 ◼ ► it a try. And I appreciate you pushing us. Without ruining the audio podcast by having that like,
00:08:19 ◼ ► "Whoa, Mike, what's that? Look over there. Oh, can you believe that thing?" "There's someone
00:08:23 ◼ ► behind you." "Whoa." Yeah. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. So we mentioned you've had
00:08:30 ◼ ► a busy morning. We're recording this at what's 10 a.m. for you, but you've already been on a
00:08:43 ◼ ► And we were visiting our kids. Our kids would go to college at the same college for this year only,
00:08:48 ◼ ► because my daughter's a senior and my son's a freshman. And so we visited them, and it turns
00:08:53 ◼ ► out that there are flights back and forth between Eugene and the Bay Area are limited. And there
00:09:00 ◼ ► seemed to be no Sunday night flight. So we decided we would just have the very early morning,
00:09:07 ◼ ► Monday morning flight. And so we, you know, got up and took a cab to the airport, and then,
00:09:14 ◼ ► you know, waited at the airport and got on the plane and then had to get the parking shuttle
00:09:19 ◼ ► to our car. And then I had to drive Lauren to her job directly and drop her off and then come here.
00:09:26 ◼ ► And then just before we started, I made some tea and, not my first tea of the day, but made some
00:09:32 ◼ ► tea and made some English muffin with peanut butter so I would have protein in my body and
00:09:40 ◼ ► be as coherent as one might want on a podcast. Podcasts need protein. Everyone knows that.
00:10:02 ◼ ► but we always just talk in Slack. I think we just got used to it. We have like, we talk all the time,
00:10:06 ◼ ► but we just talk in Slack. But you sent me an iMessage of a flighty link for me to track your
00:10:13 ◼ ► flight, which was a great experience because I had a live activity on my iPhone that I was able to
00:10:20 ◼ ► monitor through the morning as you were flying. So I knew when you were landing so I could kind
00:10:24 ◼ ► of plan my day out a little bit. I was able to take advantage of the newer feature in Flighty,
00:10:29 ◼ ► which is to designate a flight as a friend's flight so it doesn't show up in your stats and it's in a
00:10:38 ◼ ► me the link. I tapped the link and it just opened the Flighty app for me, which I already have.
00:10:44 ◼ ► I'm a big fan of Flighty. If you don't have it, you get a webpage that's got the information in
00:10:55 ◼ ► I'm sure there's a button in here that says View Full Details and I'm sure that on the web view,
00:11:00 ◼ ► I'm sure that takes you to like, "Hey, you should get Flighty." But it's not like the web view is
00:11:07 ◼ ► - Right. Because it's meant to be shared with people. That's the point of it, right? It's like,
00:11:12 ◼ ► "Hey, I'm traveling," and then you text your person you're going to see or family member or
00:11:18 ◼ ► whatever it is and say, "Here's my flight info." And they can actually see like, they got off on
00:11:26 ◼ ► plus to drive plus the shuttle to the... I mean, there was a lot more. After we landed,
00:11:39 ◼ ► - I was tempted to text you and be like, "Five minutes to go." I'm not going to leave you alone.
00:11:44 ◼ ► I'm not going to be alone. But I was like, the Flighty live activities, I think it's gotten even
00:11:50 ◼ ► better since the last time I used it. I looked at it at one moment and it was giving like a
00:11:55 ◼ ► countdown like in minutes and seconds until you were going to land. It's like, "Oh, I didn't even
00:11:59 ◼ ► know live activities could do that." I hadn't seen one other than the official one do like a
00:12:05 ◼ ► countdown like that. Just the design of the live activities is so good. Flighty is a top-tier
00:12:19 ◼ ► - But it is so great. So yeah, that was... So yeah, I'm a little discombobulated today. It's because
00:12:27 ◼ ► it was a very unusual morning, but now I'm just sitting at my desk doing an upgrade. So now it
00:12:38 ◼ ► rumor roundup, Jason Snow. Maybe that will help out. Let me give you the lay of the land,
00:12:42 ◼ ► what's been going on over the last few days. Although there is a lot more bigger rumors we're
00:12:47 ◼ ► going to talk about later on in the episode today. We are fully in rumor season right now,
00:12:55 ◼ ► 9to5Mac is reporting that the iPhone 15 and 15 Pro may feature a frosted glass back. These were
00:13:08 ◼ ► There is a question I have for you here is, could we be seeing a glass finish swap? So the Pro
00:13:16 ◼ ► phones have had frosted glass for many years now and the regular phones... I said 15 Pro,
00:13:23 ◼ ► I meant to say 15 Max. The iPhone 15 and 15 Max. That is my correction that I'm giving you.
00:13:33 ◼ ► Nobody remembers the name of this phone anymore. It's too confusing. The iPhone 15 and 15 Plus
00:13:37 ◼ ► may feature a frosted glass back. So the Pro phones have had frosted glass, the regular
00:13:44 ◼ ► phones have had a kind of like a matte texture, regular glass. I'm wondering if they're going to
00:13:49 ◼ ► flip. I wouldn't call it matte texture. It's it's it's shiny glass, gripping and glass.
00:13:56 ◼ ► And it's bright. Well, OK, so here's the question. Is the reason that the iPhone lower models,
00:14:07 ◼ ► And the reason the ones on the Pro models have been less colorful is because they had the frosted
00:14:12 ◼ ► glass? Or is it more just Apple's differentiation between them? Because what I don't want to see is
00:14:19 ◼ ► that the low end phones get boring like the high end phones are in terms of color, although it
00:14:23 ◼ ► would be nice if the higher end phones had color as well. But it's all a mystery, right? Like it
00:14:29 ◼ ► is the stated opinion of the upgrade program that Apple's products should all be more colorful than
00:14:35 ◼ ► they are. So I would if they do this, I would hate for it to mean that the iPhone 15 and 15 Plus are
00:14:48 ◼ ► brighter color that Apple said, you know what? We let our color excitement get away from us and we
00:14:55 ◼ ► actually made nice colors and we can't have that. So we're going to make we're going to dull it all
00:15:01 ◼ ► up a little bit. I hope that's not the case. I still don't quite understand Apple's strategy
00:15:05 ◼ ► with color and the iPhone. But I will say I'm interested in how this plays out because I have
00:15:12 ◼ ► felt for this entire generation of iPhones, the 12, 13, 14, that the low end model has been nicer
00:15:21 ◼ ► looking. I prefer how they look to the high end model because of the colors and because of the
00:15:28 ◼ ► nature of that glass back. So what's it going to be? I don't know. I mean, this is the problem is
00:15:38 ◼ ► these colors color. I feel color rumors are some of the worst rumors because I don't know. It just
00:15:44 ◼ ► feels to me like that's shaky ground. Apple can make decisions. Color is one of those things that
00:15:50 ◼ ► Apple can decide later on in the process. They just need to manufacture. They could have eight
00:15:55 ◼ ► colors going in and then decide on four or three when they actually ship them. We don't know. But
00:16:02 ◼ ► it's an interesting idea. I mean, they got to do something, right? They want these to feel a
00:16:06 ◼ ► little bit different. Otherwise, it's the exact same phone for three or four years in a row and
00:16:11 ◼ ► that's no good. So I'm remembering the pro phones are expected to get titanium frames. So there was
00:16:19 ◼ ► nine to five medical questioning if there could be something going on there that maybe they're
00:16:23 ◼ ► changing the way that the glass looks on the line in some way. Maybe it will match up better with
00:16:28 ◼ ► the titanium or they're just trying to potentially make the phones, as you say, just overall look
00:16:33 ◼ ► more different even though they're not changing, potentially not changing too much of the industrial
00:16:38 ◼ ► design. And I don't know enough about how the titanium manufacturing process works, but the
00:16:45 ◼ ► question would be also how does titanium coloration work, right? If there is an anodization-like
00:16:54 ◼ ► process for titanium that allows them to have it hold bright colors, then that would allow them to
00:17:01 ◼ ► do bright colors on those phones. If there isn't and it really just needs to be shades of gray with
00:17:08 ◼ ► a very subtle tint, then we're going to be back where we've been all along with those pro phones.
00:17:16 ◼ ► like titanium can be, that color can be added to it. But what we don't know is like how much color,
00:17:24 ◼ ► you know, like yes, you can add a color, but like, is it bright or is it bold? Like, I don't
00:17:29 ◼ ► know the answer to that. And we also don't know what Apple will do, you know, because they have
00:17:35 ◼ ► their own ways of metallurgy. - I use my very clever upgrade search engine to see that that
00:17:41 ◼ ► was in episode 441 when Josh wrote in to let us know that titanium can in fact be anodized and the
00:17:49 ◼ ► colors can be quite vibrant. So maybe dream, dream here, dare to dream, maybe we'll get some pro phones
00:17:58 ◼ ► with brighter color options on the glass backs and on the anodized titanium or equivalent thereof
00:18:07 ◼ ► titanium frame. - Meiqi Kuo is reporting that the 15 inch MacBook Air will only offer an M2 chip.
00:18:14 ◼ ► It had previously been suggested that maybe an M2 Pro would be available in this model,
00:18:25 ◼ ► this is my conjecture, I assume this would be one with a graphics, some description. Not a surprise,
00:18:31 ◼ ► I don't think. - No, if this is, if this, this computer has been described as a MacBook Air,
00:18:37 ◼ ► and if it's a MacBook Air, I think that implies that it doesn't have a fan. - Yep. - And therefore
00:18:42 ◼ ► it's not going to have a Pro chip in it. I think the, I think a lot of people got like,
00:18:46 ◼ ► ran away with this story and they're like, oh, it's not going to be an M2, it's going to be an M3
00:18:50 ◼ ► because the M3 is going to come out and then maybe it's going to be the Pro and all that.
00:18:58 ◼ ► and then three months later or six months later, they're going to come out with an M3 MacBook Air
00:19:03 ◼ ► and people are going to go, oh no, who will buy the M2 MacBook Air if there's an M3 MacBook Air?
00:19:10 ◼ ► And the answer is going to be people who want a 15 inch laptop will buy it. That's the answer.
00:19:19 ◼ ► the 15 inch will have the M2, the 13 inch will have the M3. There's also a 13 inch that has the
00:19:23 ◼ ► M1 that might stick around. So like they make it work. And if there was any computer that I
00:19:29 ◼ ► thought might get the M2 Pro as a config, it would be the 13 inch MacBook Pro, right? Because that's
00:19:35 ◼ ► got a fan. So they could probably put the M2 Pro in it. And that would at least differentiate it
00:19:43 ◼ ► from the MacBook Air in some way and make it actually be a MacBook Pro in a way that it isn't
00:19:50 ◼ ► right now. That would be the one that if I had to guess, if they were revising anything to have the
00:20:03 ◼ ► - Mark Gurman was recently a guest on the Mac Rumor Show podcast where he shared that he believes
00:20:10 ◼ ► that while the Mac Pro is likely to be released this year, he does not expect it to be shown at
00:20:15 ◼ ► WWDC. Sorry Mac Pro fans. - Okay. I mean, there's a lot going on. Like having them say they probably
00:20:22 ◼ ► aren't gonna have room for that product or if it's gonna be late in the year. They're probably eyeing
00:20:29 ◼ ► another. I don't think the Mac Pro is gonna be an event kind of thing, right? But like,
00:20:42 ◼ ► the other possibility is that there'll be a fall Mac event. I guess the question I have then is,
00:20:48 ◼ ► if you wait too long, you're gonna start rolling out M3 MacBook Air. And would you put out an M2
00:20:55 ◼ ► Macs, Mac Pro at the same time as an M3 low-end MacBook Air? Would that be too weird? I don't
00:21:01 ◼ ► know, but they could do whatever they want with the Mac Pro. Honestly, it's such a, I know that
00:21:05 ◼ ► it takes up an outsized part of our imagination as Mac aficionados, but they could do it with a
00:21:13 ◼ ► press release and a little video and it would be fine. Because the people who care are gonna care.
00:21:17 ◼ ► - They're gonna care no matter. - And nobody else will care because it's the lowest selling Mac,
00:21:22 ◼ ► and it's not important in most ways. I know the ways that it is important, but I'm just saying,
00:21:29 ◼ ► like in terms of Apple's Mac business, it's important as a flagship and maybe as a point
00:21:34 ◼ ► of pride about where Apple Silicon is, but it's not something that needs to be, like Apple,
00:21:39 ◼ ► I mean, nothing needs to be in an event other than the iPhone, I suppose, but certainly the Mac Pro
00:21:45 ◼ ► doesn't need to be an event. If it was, it would be WWDC. I still would hold out some hope that
00:21:51 ◼ ► they might tease it because it's been so long since John Turness. - I wouldn't do it again.
00:21:56 ◼ ► - That's another story. - I wouldn't tease it again. - Well, you know, they could, I mean,
00:22:00 ◼ ► they did, that's how they released the, was it the trash can or the, was it the... - Oh, you mean like
00:22:06 ◼ ► a full on... - Like a video with a silhouette and like, here it is and it's coming later this year
00:22:13 ◼ ► and we have more to share later and nothing else, right? - Unless they have a video like they did
00:22:18 ◼ ► with the trash can, like they did with the iMac Pro, like I wouldn't. - That's right. - Because
00:22:22 ◼ ► they made a mistake, like we spoke about this last week, like John Turness never should have
00:22:26 ◼ ► done that wink at the camera, like that was a mistake, right? It was over a year old now.
00:22:32 ◼ ► - Yeah, or they changed the path, right? And that got it delayed, so that would make it a mistake.
00:22:38 ◼ ► Again, it's that classic, like maybe this is why you shouldn't ever pre-announce literally anything
00:22:42 ◼ ► if you're gonna wink at the camera like that and then there's nothing. So, but wouldn't, I mean,
00:22:49 ◼ ► I'll take Mark at his word here that Mac Pro, not a WWDC, it may just be like they're looking
00:22:56 ◼ ► at the lineup and they're clearing the decks and it doesn't fit and so they'll do it later or it's
00:23:02 ◼ ► not ready and they'll do it later. - With what we've got to talk about later on with his kind of
00:23:06 ◼ ► report on what the headset will be doing, I don't know how there'll be time for anything else during
00:23:13 ◼ ► the WWDC presentation. - Yeah. - But we'll get to that later on. One last thing, Mark Gurman also on
00:23:18 ◼ ► the MacRumors show shared that he believes that Apple will only be enabling the ability for third
00:23:23 ◼ ► party app stores on iOS in regions that require it. So right now, they would be building this
00:23:30 ◼ ► feature potentially into iOS 17 just for the European Union due to the Digital Markets Act
00:23:36 ◼ ► and that will be the only place where you'll be able to quote unquote side load applications
00:23:40 ◼ ► in some form. - Yeah, that would fit Apple's behavior. - Yes, it would, yes. - It would only do the letter
00:23:48 ◼ ► of the law and no more. That said, and I said this before when we talked about it because we talked
00:23:55 ◼ ► about this a while ago and I think we got some feedback saying, but you're talking as if this is
00:24:01 ◼ ► going to be everywhere but wouldn't it just be in the EU? The answer is yes, perhaps, but I don't know.
00:24:08 ◼ ► I just feel like the moment that Apple opens this door somewhere, first off, the door will never
00:24:15 ◼ ► close and second, the door will just keep opening wider and wider and it will be how do I,
00:24:22 ◼ ► you know, right, download this thing or I'll sell you an account I made with a gift card in it for
00:24:31 ◼ ► an Apple ID from the EU or here's a spoofing thing you can do or use a VPN to enable this and
00:24:39 ◼ ► like, and I imagine that if you're in the EU and you enable this, they're not gonna like
00:24:45 ◼ ► kick out all the apps when you travel to the United States, right? So they can lock it to an
00:24:50 ◼ ► Apple ID or they can have it be like, there are ways that they can do that and I realize that it
00:24:54 ◼ ► might not be mainstream but like once the door is open, people will keep kicking it wider and wider
00:25:02 ◼ ► open. Plus it does actually give Apple a bargaining chip everywhere else in the world where they can
00:25:10 ◼ ► say, if you would like us to turn this on, if you know, if you regulate us to do this, we'll do it
00:25:15 ◼ ► for you too but because it's there but we're not going to do it unless you tell us to. Yeah, that's
00:25:20 ◼ ► what I would assume when you say about like the door being kicked open that it's governments
00:25:25 ◼ ► around the world kicking that door open, right? When they see that, yeah, we can ask Apple to do
00:25:30 ◼ ► this. I mean, they already did it so let's just do it. Just do it. Yeah, yeah, so I think it will
00:25:50 ◼ ► legislation that is a lot easier because they can look at Apple's feature and say, do that,
00:25:57 ◼ ► essentially, and know that it's already being done or they'll wait a little bit and watch and
00:26:03 ◼ ► see what happens in the EU. What we said before that bears repeating too is that Apple's claim
00:26:08 ◼ ► that sideloading is the devil and that it would be a disaster because curation in the app store and
00:26:30 ◼ ► shown to be utterly toothless but we'll find out one way or another, right? Like if they do this
00:26:35 ◼ ► and they say this is the road to perdition and then it happens in the EU and it's fine, then
00:26:46 ◼ ► Only in America is it bad. Anyway, so we'll see but yeah, I think, I think this is inevitable
00:26:55 ◼ ► once it starts. The avalanche will continue but it has to start first so we'll see if that happens
00:27:02 ◼ ► next year. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Factor. This spring you need nutritious,
00:27:09 ◼ ► convenient meals to energise you for warmer active days and keep you on track to reaching your goals.
00:27:15 ◼ ► Factor is America's number one ready-to-eat meal kit and can help you fuel up fast with
00:27:21 ◼ ► ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door. You save time, eat well and tackle everything on
00:27:27 ◼ ► your to-do list because that one thing's taken care of for you. Skip that trip to the grocery
00:27:31 ◼ ► store, skip the chopping, prepping and cleaning up after cooking too. Factor's fresh, never frozen
00:27:37 ◼ ► meals are ready in just two minutes which is so much faster than any takeout option so all you
00:27:42 ◼ ► have to do is heat and enjoy, then get back outside, soak up the warmer weather, take those
00:27:47 ◼ ► tasks off your to-do list, do what, just play a video game, do whatever you want. There are
00:27:51 ◼ ► delicious flavour-packed options on the menu each week to fit a variety of lifestyles like keto,
00:27:58 ◼ ► calorie smart which are around less than 550 calories per serving, vegan, veggie and protein
00:28:03 ◼ ► plus. Prepared by chefs and approved by dieticians, each meal has all of the ingredients you need to
00:28:09 ◼ ► feel satisfied all day long while meeting your goals. With over 34 chef prepared, dietician
00:28:15 ◼ ► approved weekly options there's always something new to try plus you can round out your meal and
00:28:20 ◼ ► replenish your snack supply with an assortment of over 45 add-ons including breakfast items like egg
00:28:27 ◼ ► bites, smoothies and more. Jason did you go for protein plus because podcasters need protein?
00:28:32 ◼ ► I actually did chef's choice. Oh ho ho I'll have the chef's choice if you don't. Which is um
00:28:39 ◼ ► because none of those things particularly were appealed to me and like well that's what I want
00:28:43 ◼ ► and so I decided to go with chef's choice of like just you know send me your best, send me your good
00:28:50 ◼ ► stuff and we'll see. I've been especially um Lauren works uh on an evening so I've got one day a week
00:28:58 ◼ ► where it's just me for dinner and then I also have um frequently the dilemma of what I do for lunch
00:29:06 ◼ ► so I'm looking forward to trying these out. Oh yeah and I guess as well like in those situations
00:29:10 ◼ ► it is it can be like if you're used to cooking for multiple people if you're cooking for just
00:29:14 ◼ ► one person it's like a lot of effort right to cook a whole meal and like it's so difficult to cook
00:29:20 ◼ ► for just one person right because you have too many ingredients you end up with too many leftovers
00:29:26 ◼ ► that's awesome. I look forward to in future episodes hearing what the chef's choice provided you.
00:29:31 ◼ ► Plus Factor focuses on sustainability. They offset 100% of their delivery emissions to your door plus
00:29:38 ◼ ► they source 100% renewable electricity for their production sites and offices and they feature
00:29:43 ◼ ► sustainably sourced seafood in their meals. Head to factormeals.com/upgrade50 and use the code
00:29:50 ◼ ► upgrade50 to get 50% off your first box. That's upgrade50. Upgrade 50 at factormeals.com/upgrade50
00:30:00 ◼ ► to get 50% off your first box. The links in the show notes are thanks to Factor for their support
00:30:05 ◼ ► of this show and all of Relay FM. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Apple is developing a
00:30:14 ◼ ► journaling app that could possibly be unveiled with iOS 17. A quote from the journal. The Apple
00:30:20 ◼ ► journaling app, oh the journal, do you think it's a coincidence that the journal got information
00:30:25 ◼ ► about the journal app? Well I mean it is the official journal of journaling on Wall Street
00:30:30 ◼ ► so that makes sense. So maybe this is an app for Wall Street journals to journal? It is an app for
00:30:37 ◼ ► Wall Street journals. It is a journaling app. It is reported by the Wall Street Journal. Are you
00:30:42 ◼ ► getting it yet? It's an app. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Apple is developing
00:30:51 ◼ ► a journaling app that could possibly be unveiled with iOS 17. The Apple journaling app says,
00:30:59 ◼ ► the journal codenamed Jurassic is designed to help users keep track of their daily lives
00:31:06 ◼ ► according to the documents describing the software. The app will analyze the user's behavior
00:31:11 ◼ ► to determine what a typical day is like including how much time is spent at home compared to
00:31:17 ◼ ► elsewhere and whether a certain day included something outside of the norm. So it seems like
00:31:23 ◼ ► what they're going to be doing here is combining a bunch of data from across the system, right? From
00:31:28 ◼ ► like maybe screen time, find my maps, fitness, like all these kinds of areas and it references
00:31:34 ◼ ► later on as well that this they also what does it say about according to report Apple's app will
00:31:40 ◼ ► have the ability to gather much more user data than third-party journaling apps and will have
00:31:45 ◼ ► access to text messages and phone calls but privacy and security will be central to the
00:31:49 ◼ ► software's design. The analysis of the user's day will take place on device and journaling suggestions
00:31:54 ◼ ► will remain in the system for four weeks after which they will be removed. And as well as the
00:32:00 ◼ ► automatic stuff it is actually supposedly acting as a journal so it brings in like this data for
00:32:06 ◼ ► you to look at and maybe you can add it to the app in some way but it is also prompting you to
00:32:12 ◼ ► reflect on and write about your day, right? So like you will have the ability to just write what
00:32:19 ◼ ► you're feeling, write what you're thinking based on this information. Does this surprise you as an app
00:32:26 ◼ ► that Apple would want to make? Yes and no. It struck me a little bit like conceptually a little
00:32:35 ◼ ► like Freeform, right? When we talked about Freeform, Freeform is an app that's kind of built
00:32:42 ◼ ► out of a bunch of constituent parts that Apple already had and then they got kind of like put
00:32:47 ◼ ► together with some new stuff on it but it was some features that sort of Apple already worked on a
00:32:51 ◼ ► lot of this stuff. They had the components. They could put it together and do some extra work and
00:32:56 ◼ ► build an app and this feels a little like that in the sense that Apple has all of this information
00:33:01 ◼ ► already and so on one level it's like well we you know Apple already knows how you spent your day
00:33:10 ◼ ► so it can really help with everything else that's going on and I could see the pitch being that
00:33:20 ◼ ► right which is like well you know journaling apps are fun but we can make a very simple one because
00:33:26 ◼ ► again it's Apple. If they do this as an included app it's going to be the one to reach the broad
00:33:33 ◼ ► audience they're going to want to reach instead of like the really dedicated journaling people
00:33:43 ◼ ► you know, anything that the phone knows about you, what notifications you got. I mean there's
00:33:51 ◼ ► a question of like what can they intercept and catalog even if it's all on device you still have
00:33:56 ◼ ► to ask yourself that question. I'm intrigued by that but it is your phone is a very personal
00:34:00 ◼ ► object and it does know things about you and it could probably contribute those or offer to
00:34:04 ◼ ► contribute those to this and then maybe there's an API or something where you know apps are going to
00:34:10 ◼ ► be able to contribute events of like you listen to this podcast or you know whatever you listen to
00:34:14 ◼ ► this music they know right if you listen to Apple music but you set up some events APIs where
00:34:20 ◼ ► apps can sort of log things that you did during the day and then they're also presented to you
00:34:26 ◼ ► it's an interesting idea. I think that they could there's probably already things that developers
00:34:31 ◼ ► have to do right that this would be able to pull from like a you know kind of like how Shortcuts
00:34:36 ◼ ► works right where like Shortcuts is taking advantage of an API which is named I can't remember
00:34:42 ◼ ► to be able to recommend things that you do frequently on your device right and so they can
00:34:46 ◼ ► then be incorporated into Shortcuts is how kind of like the Siri Shortcuts thing started off right
00:34:53 ◼ ► of like here's the thing that you do frequently why don't you turn this into a shortcut.
00:34:57 ◼ ► So I think this is a fascinating idea like uh in the Discord it's saying intense API which I think
00:35:04 ◼ ► is what it's called now I think it used to have a different name it was something else but now I
00:35:09 ◼ ► think it's intense. This idea is fascinating to me obviously I care about journaling I make a journal
00:35:16 ◼ ► right and I think because I believe in the idea of like reflecting and writing out for someone who's
00:35:20 ◼ ► already a journaler I could imagine myself wanting to take advantage of the data part but I'm still
00:35:27 ◼ ► going to write it down on pen and paper because that's just what I care about. I would love it
00:35:32 ◼ ► if I could you know maybe take a picture of my like my theme system journal put it into this app
00:35:38 ◼ ► right so like what I write down I could add it in and it could you know be something like that I know
00:35:47 ◼ ► and takes pictures of it and saves it in day one right so like you could you could do that
00:35:51 ◼ ► but you'd benefit from all this information. I mentioned day one so I will say here this
00:35:59 ◼ ► the thing that surprises me about even approaching an app like this and the way that they're building
00:36:04 ◼ ► it it's like it just kind of feels like they're asking for trouble like because Apple will now
00:36:10 ◼ ► make a journaling app with features that only they're able to access but and existing apps that
00:36:17 ◼ ► do this kind of stuff they can't get all of the information about your text messages your phone
00:36:21 ◼ ► calls your proximity to other people which is a thing that it will be able to work out to try and
00:36:26 ◼ ► suggest that you know maybe you spent time with Jason today because you were both in the same
00:36:30 ◼ ► place based on five mile like third parties aren't going to be able to access this data
00:36:35 ◼ ► so whilst this could be a good feature it could end up just being another kind of place to hang
00:36:49 ◼ ► perplexed by this idea because I can't imagine this will be a set of APIs for journaling apps
00:36:56 ◼ ► to be able to use. Well that right I mean so this is I think this makes the counter argument
00:37:02 ◼ ► which is the privacy argument which in in the Wall Street Journal report that's what they say is that
00:37:14 ◼ ► counter argument which is Apple is going to keep all this on device and it's going to be encrypted
00:37:22 ◼ ► and in your iCloud account etc etc and that's and and that anything that Apple's doing in terms of
00:37:29 ◼ ► analyzing your behavior it's just going to go to this place and it's just going to stay on your
00:37:34 ◼ ► device and and then Apple the stuff you choose to save is only going to sync encrypted to Apple
00:37:40 ◼ ► and it's going to be super perfect right the reason that they're going to say that is because
00:37:45 ◼ ► honestly can you imagine saying we've got an API now that's going to collect all the behavior of
00:37:50 ◼ ► everything you do on your iPhone and third oh yes third-party apps will be able to read it all
00:37:56 ◼ ► no like you can't you can't do that right because there's essentially zero trust with third-party
00:38:04 ◼ ► apps we've we've been down this road before yeah and even if there's I mean there are clever ways
00:38:09 ◼ ► they could do it they could have it be like okay it is an API we're not non-competitive day one
00:38:14 ◼ ► can use this other journaling apps can use this but here's how it works is they have a they use
00:38:20 ◼ ► this API and it and they never see what is offered to the user and the user chooses what to add
00:38:27 ◼ ► yeah from an API that's running kind of like the that photos API that brings up a photo picker but
00:38:33 ◼ ► the the app doesn't see the photos in your library it just sees the ones you pick and pass to it but
00:38:39 ◼ ► it doesn't see all the photos in the library and that's apple's approach to privacy they could do
00:38:43 ◼ ► something like that and maybe maybe they would but it would have to be at that level right which is
00:38:49 ◼ ► we've created an event picker that's based on the events that happen on your phone they stay on the
00:38:54 ◼ ► device and third-party apps can have access to it if you allow them but even then they only will see
00:39:02 ◼ ► the events that you choose to share and it won't be like a yes share all my music with this app
00:39:08 ◼ ► it'll be choose the music that you listen to here's a list that you listen to today pick the songs you
00:39:17 ◼ ► want to share with this app maybe they could do it that way but it's going to be tough and and often
00:39:22 ◼ ► often what apple does is they release the app and then they you know the API comes later
00:39:27 ◼ ► it's like just this time it's just us but you would certainly the counter-argument would be
00:39:33 ◼ ► there are already journaling apps out there what are you doing why are you privileging yourself
00:39:37 ◼ ► here why don't you just build the API and let all the journaling apps use it if you think it's such
00:39:40 ◼ ► a great idea yeah yes like my counter-argument to your original counter-argument which is like the
00:39:46 ◼ ► one about safety and security is apple don't have to make a journaling app like this isn't a business
00:39:53 ◼ ► they need to be in at all like it it right this is not something that is expected of phones right
00:40:01 ◼ ► like it's not like a a temp hole feature that they should have to be able to meet their competition
00:40:07 ◼ ► like this would be a really interesting app that they could do some really cool stuff with and
00:40:12 ◼ ► i would be really interested in it as a user like i don't use something like day one because i don't
00:40:18 ◼ ► have a personal need for it um it would just be i would be doing what i'm doing on pen and paper
00:40:24 ◼ ► which i prefer i would be typing it which i don't want to do but this app would be intriguing to me
00:40:30 ◼ ► because it may be able to surface things to me that i wasn't even aware i did right because
00:40:34 ◼ ► it's collecting up data from my phone and then i can use that in some kind of way of reflecting
00:40:39 ◼ ► on my day it'd be like a here's a bunch of data that i have and i can use that and that's all fine
00:40:45 ◼ ► right but also i will say if it's all on device i have a question too which is is it going to be as
00:40:51 ◼ ► useless as some of apple's other stuff where their commitment to on-device privacy means that if i'm
00:40:57 ◼ ► journaling on my ipad and i've been places with my iphone that my ipad doesn't know about it because
00:41:02 ◼ ► it's only on the iphone that's stupid but apple does that with the health stuff and i hate it so
00:41:09 ◼ ► i i would wonder you know is this a thing where really you're only able to do this on on your
00:41:14 ◼ ► iphone because only your iphone knows these things and it would be maybe iphone specific you're right
00:41:20 ◼ ► i'm making it there doesn't there doesn't need to be an app to do this but it's also possible that
00:41:24 ◼ ► they that they think that this is a nice bit of functionality that they have access to and it
00:41:28 ◼ ► could be that this is literally a demo app i mean that they'll do the basic app but that there if
00:41:33 ◼ ► there's an api behind it then they're also saying we've allowed this whole new class of data to be
00:41:39 ◼ ► shared with apps that you trust as i described right which is you bring up a an event picker
00:41:45 ◼ ► and you choose the events and they get sent to whatever app you choose to send them to yeah maybe
00:41:52 ◼ ► that that's the idea but i would know it's just it's the case it's it is difficult right you can
00:41:58 ◼ ► see the the thing here where there's apple apple has access to some very specific data that apps
00:42:04 ◼ ► don't have and so on one level you're like well this is this is interesting maybe we should make
00:42:09 ◼ ► an app but if you do that then you have now built this app from a privileged position that
00:42:15 ◼ ► potentially hurts all of the apps that aren't in the privileged position but at the same time you
00:42:20 ◼ ► can't give them access to privileged information because who knows what that app is going to do
00:42:25 ◼ ► with it sync it back to somewhere mine it for information you know whatever it is so then you
00:42:30 ◼ ► have to erect security and this this is why apple gets in trouble right this is why because there
00:42:35 ◼ ► is a legitimate argument and it varies in how legitimate it is but there is a legitimate
00:42:40 ◼ ► argument that the reason apple holds on to this stuff is not anti-competitive it's because it's
00:42:45 ◼ ► protective and you know i i think that's true to a certain extent and then not to the extent that
00:42:49 ◼ ► apple pushes it but you can see it right here in this idea and your argument is also a strong one
00:42:54 ◼ ► which is like maybe just don't do it right maybe just don't step in another one but here it is
00:43:01 ◼ ► again watch if this does come out in ios 17 i will say again watch for the nature of that is this an
00:43:08 ◼ ► api that other apps get access to or is this apple building something just for itself that only apple
00:43:14 ◼ ► can can see because that's um a little bit tougher to it you can understand why they would do it that
00:43:22 ◼ ► way but it's also a choice that they've made to keep that keep it for themselves instead of
00:43:26 ◼ ► building something that any app could potentially use in a secure way and it's like it's frustrating
00:43:31 ◼ ► to me because i would like this application to exist i am sure that there are people inside of
00:43:38 ◼ ► apple who wanted it to exist so they've made it right it's like a cool thing that they've made
00:43:44 ◼ ► but there's this part in the middle where decisions have been made about how apple runs its business
00:43:50 ◼ ► that makes this like a it can't just be a celebration of like a cool thing that they've made
00:43:55 ◼ ► right that there will be like wordpress right who owns day one like automatic i should say who owns
00:44:02 ◼ ► day one yeah we'll be like hang on a minute like i actually think in the wall street journal article
00:44:07 ◼ ► if i'm remembering rightly they spoke spoke to paul maine the founder of day one and you know he
00:44:13 ◼ ► was kind of just like here we go again yeah well i mean and and sherlocking as a concept is most
00:44:21 ◼ ► often applied to things that feel like they're part of the core yeah and that and and that
00:44:28 ◼ ► allowing that thing to just be on the third party that at some point it's like well no that needs to
00:44:32 ◼ ► be first party we need to bring that on the inside this feels so outside of that and i i totally can
00:44:40 ◼ ► hear the pitch from inside apple about it and i think that there's validity in that but you are
00:44:45 ◼ ► like there's no driving impetus to doing something like this this is literally literally like hey
00:44:53 ◼ ► uh journaling apps are uh popular but we could do way better because we have access to better info
00:44:58 ◼ ► let's just make a journaling app like okay but you're not supposed to do that no uh it's always
00:45:06 ◼ ► the worst thing to have to hear that you're about to be sherlock today one founder paul maine told
00:45:10 ◼ ► the wall street journal after hearing about apple's plans it would definitely give us some competition
00:45:15 ◼ ► yeah right i mean and then the counter-argument is apple apple validating the category matters yeah
00:45:38 ◼ ► casual users are pleased with what the the platform vendor can offer there's still a big
00:45:44 ◼ ► opportunity and in all the stuff that the platform vendor will never offer because apple is going to
00:45:50 ◼ ► keep it simple because it's a stock app yeah so it's an opera it's it's dangerous but also an
00:45:58 ◼ ► opportunity depending on the details yeah i think that for me the sherlocking part becomes more
00:46:05 ◼ ► complicated when and if right apple has created something in their system to allow just them to
00:46:15 ◼ ► do this part of it like yeah we're gonna make the same apps an app in the same category as you
00:46:21 ◼ ► but ours will be able to do a thing that we will not allow you to do right nobody else has access
00:46:27 ◼ ► to this data it's privileged but we get it and so that's why ours is that's more complicated to me
00:46:32 ◼ ► yes i agree that's that's that's why i think looking for is this part of a sharing api or is
00:46:38 ◼ ► this literally uh only apple will provide this information and that's it you don't you know no
00:46:44 ◼ ► other app can get this information in any way that's shakier but like as someone in case people
00:46:50 ◼ ► are wondering about conflicts right as someone in the journaling business like this for me for me is
00:46:55 ◼ ► good right because i don't make a journaling app but i make a journal and this will put journaling
00:47:00 ◼ ► in the minds of more people so to me is like a good thing right because like we i make something
00:47:06 ◼ ► so different to an app that like you have to want to do it so this might do that thing right exactly
00:47:11 ◼ ► what you're saying where people find out about journaling more and then i can be like oh hey have
00:47:16 ◼ ► you seen this really nice paper version that you might want instead but like if i'm making an app
00:47:23 ◼ ► right if i if me and gray were making the theme system journal app i'd be pretty upset about this
00:47:28 ◼ ► right because that's more of a direct competition so i'd be interested to see like i am genuinely
00:47:36 ◼ ► very intrigued about this i think it would be great to be able to have applications where they're
00:47:42 ◼ ► able to pull in more stuff across the system right i think that would be great and i would love it
00:47:47 ◼ ► more if there was some easy api or like some easy way for this journaling app to be able to pull in
00:47:53 ◼ ► things that i'm doing at third party apps i think that that stuff tends to fall down quite a lot
00:47:58 ◼ ► right like shortcuts is a perfect example in places where it'd be great if developers actually
00:48:12 ◼ ► this episode is brought to you by zocdoc you might be trying to find you got something going on right
00:48:21 ◼ ► and then you end up stumbling down a rabbit hole online and now you're a bit more worried than you
00:48:25 ◼ ► were before there are better ways to get the answers that you want rather than googling or
00:48:31 ◼ ► being on tiktok the care that you deserve from trusted professionals and not random people on the
00:48:36 ◼ ► internet that is the better way to get these answers zocdoc helps you find expert doctors and
00:48:42 ◼ ► medical professionals that specialize in the care that you need to deliver the type of experience
00:48:47 ◼ ► that you want zocdoc is the only app that lets you find and book doctors who are patient reviewed
00:48:53 ◼ ► take your insurance are available when you need them and treat almost every condition under the
00:48:57 ◼ ► sun being able to book doctors appointments in an app and then arrange calls and just do the whole
00:49:03 ◼ ► thing without ever needing to leave your office leave home that is such a game changer rather than
00:49:08 ◼ ► taking the time going to the doctor surgery waiting in the doctor surgery then being late
00:49:12 ◼ ► now you're late like that's a whole hassle being able to just do all of this stuff right there when
00:49:18 ◼ ► you need it is great or even if you do want to go and see the doctor in person not having to call up
00:49:22 ◼ ► wait on hold and trying to find and then like trying to look at your calendar all of that's
00:49:27 ◼ ► hassle this is what makes zocdoc so great there's no more doctor roulette or scouring the internet
00:49:32 ◼ ► for questionable reviews with zocdoc you have a trusted guide to connect you to your favorite
00:49:37 ◼ ► doctor that you haven't met yet millions of people use zocdoc's free app to find and book a doctor in
00:49:42 ◼ ► their neighborhood who's patient reviewed and fits their needs and schedule just right go to zocdoc.com
00:49:48 ◼ ► slash upgrade fm and download the zocdoc app for free then find a book a top-rated doctor today
00:50:04 ◼ ► our thanks to zocdoc for their support of this show and relay fm i mentioned that we were in high
00:50:11 ◼ ► time when it comes to to rumors 420. oh interesting yeah i mean what we did we did uh celebrate 420 i
00:50:21 ◼ ► guess if that was your thing last week but i don't know if this was right but who could tell
00:50:31 ◼ ► sort of celebrating 420 all the time oh interesting is that the case i don't know anything like in
00:50:37 ◼ ► like in downtown san francisco yeah there's a oh okay yeah i actually actually a little side story
00:50:42 ◼ ► since that people weren't expecting this little side story um i went in a i went into a marijuana
00:50:49 ◼ ► dispensary when i was in eugene okay why why because i have been told that it was an amazing
00:51:08 ◼ ► there was a like there was like a star trek uh label like was on the walls of the enterprise
00:51:14 ◼ ► in the original series on the wall at one point they had like they had star wars stuff it was
00:51:26 ◼ ► not interested in purchasing their purchasing their wares but i did go in um and it smelled
00:51:31 ◼ ► less like pot on the inside than it did on the streets that makes sense there was that too
00:51:36 ◼ ► they don't blaze in inside not inside no you take that outside clearly but uh yeah so anyway it's
00:51:41 ◼ ► it's just i i was laughing because um having worked in downtown san francisco um going to eugene was
00:51:46 ◼ ► like oh yeah yep pervasive anyway well the products like sci-fi named like did they have like funny
00:51:55 ◼ ► names oh yeah i think so i think it's all i think it's all themed like the whole thing the place is
00:51:59 ◼ ► called space buds this is now an ad for space buds in eugene oregon space um just go in i'm not i'm
00:52:05 ◼ ► not enjoying the product i'm just saying that it it's uh their decorations are awesome space buds
00:52:11 ◼ ► yep was it with an s or with a z do you know space buds oregon i'm gonna let people find it themselves
00:52:21 ◼ ► rather than put it in the show notes i feel like that's just going to open us up to a whole new set
00:52:25 ◼ ► of uh email spam that we you know to add to our current collection of email spam that we get based
00:52:31 ◼ ► on the information in our show notes okay people can go to space buds the dispensary.com which is
00:52:37 ◼ ► not a great domain name to be honest it's not that great it's not as bad as 1-800-flowers.com but it's
00:52:43 ◼ ► pretty bad yeah but even that domain like you remember that one you just said it right like
00:52:47 ◼ ► what you're gonna remember after today space buds yeah well yeah but it's a phone number as a domain
00:52:52 ◼ ► name is a bad idea anyway they have a billboard as you get off of i-5 and are headed to eugene
00:52:58 ◼ ► there is a billboard by the side of the freeway for space buds we were laughing dispensary
00:53:06 ◼ ► oh there is i see what you're saying yeah that don't want i didn't i didn't know where you were
00:53:11 ◼ ► going with that but now i get it anyway mark german has more reports over at bloomberg on how
00:53:18 ◼ ► apple's headset is shaping up and how they plan to launch this product to the world they're going to
00:53:24 ◼ ► be focusing the product on a few key areas gaming fitness collaboration entertainment and kind of
00:53:33 ◼ ► creating a work environment for yourself this seems very broad right but it appears that they
00:53:41 ◼ ► are packing this feature like packing this with features to appeal to as many people as possible
00:53:46 ◼ ► see what sticks move forward apple is planning on ipad apps to be a i think surprisingly big
00:53:55 ◼ ► component of the headset it appears that reality os which is based on ios will draw from the ipad
00:54:03 ◼ ► app store for applications as well as apps that are made kind of primarily for ar vr but you will
00:54:10 ◼ ► be able to search for apps and you'll find anything that's available for ipad apple's going to be
00:54:16 ◼ ► optimizing a vast array of their core platform apps that are on ipad for the headset these are
00:54:23 ◼ ► you know messages notes photos the list goes on and on and on every app that is considered to be
00:54:29 ◼ ► kind of like core to the platform which usually installed of course they're going to optimize to
00:54:33 ◼ ► be available here in vr versions as well as pages numbers keynote garage pad and imovie are all
00:54:41 ◼ ► called out in the in the report from mark there will be a selection of experiences that are fully
00:54:47 ◼ ► tailored to the vr capabilities of the device apple books is in this part which i i can't get
00:54:55 ◼ ► my head around the vr apple books experience like what that is i don't know do you think it's going
00:55:03 ◼ ► to be like you'll hold your hand out and there'll be a book in it and you'll just like turn the page
00:55:07 ◼ ► like what is it for for a coffee table book is it maybe it's audiobooks and then you can listen
00:55:13 ◼ ► while you're doing something else i don't know i don't know that one i this is you should go on
00:55:17 ◼ ► and read the rest of these but like this is this is the part where i think is is fascinating which
00:55:21 ◼ ► is what apps need to be in vr other than like as a floating window or windows containing data because
00:55:30 ◼ ► that makes sense right that you but when you put this on you basically have an ipad or iphone uh
00:55:36 ◼ ► power and so you you can run those apps and they all sync with your icloud account so if you want
00:55:40 ◼ ► to call up your notes you can just do it when you're in there and you have them float you know
00:55:45 ◼ ► float over here and they'll probably be something like stage manager there'll be sort of a windowing
00:55:50 ◼ ► system that'll allow you to have multiple items floating and then switch between items they won't
00:55:56 ◼ ► i don't think it's going to be the case um that as was suggested on connected last week i don't
00:56:01 ◼ ► think it's going to be the case where like you're on a calendar and you have to run to the right day
00:56:07 ◼ ► and then jump on it and then the calendar man and the day yeah and then the day emerges and then you
00:56:12 ◼ ► can you can touch the i don't think it's going to be like that there'll be a window with a calendar
00:56:16 ◼ ► someone is going to make the vr calendar app that you climb through yeah you know someone made the
00:56:20 ◼ ► podcast that didn't have a recording and only had show notes too there are bad ideas exist in the
00:56:31 ◼ ► you have just you've transported me back like sense memory style what if we didn't record a
00:56:36 ◼ ► podcast but we just gave you and posted this show notes yeah great idea yep um but there are other
00:56:44 ◼ ► apps that apple are making which do make more sense i think like when you just read them uh
00:56:49 ◼ ► rather than books so a meditation app great right like you can create a serene environment right and
00:56:58 ◼ ► you can also be like you know locked away inside of the app well yeah because it's sensory right
00:57:02 ◼ ► you got you got the audio and the visual to try and create a a pleasant place for meditation
00:57:08 ◼ ► right makes sense it's like like the breathe app or what is is the breathe app now the meditation
00:57:14 ◼ ► app anyway you know it makes sense yep uh freeform which will quote let users work on virtual white
00:57:21 ◼ ► boards together while in mixed reality i actually imagine freeform will build part of the new
00:57:28 ◼ ► facetime experience like i actually think that they will work together uh yeah because you'll
00:57:32 ◼ ► be in a virtual meeting conference room with a shared whiteboard essentially i think those two
00:57:38 ◼ ► things will go together and or you remember how um in ios 16 there was like hey all of these apps
00:57:45 ◼ ► have new collaboration features right like i could imagine any app that they added this like icloud
00:57:52 ◼ ► collaboration to could also be pulled into a vr meeting and we worked on of course time together
00:57:58 ◼ ► just just to share play will be like that just to share play the same the same kind of kind of
00:58:03 ◼ ► thing that'll be there so yeah i think most apps are going to be like again not running across a
00:58:08 ◼ ► calendar not like having to you know take an adventure to move from one tab of a numbered
00:58:14 ◼ ► spreadsheet to another like those will be things that maybe they'll be like little vr affordances
00:58:20 ◼ ► but i'm really thinking of it as it's a computer that's already running and it's on your face and
00:58:24 ◼ ► so those apps will be there so if you want to uh bring up keynote you can do that and you'll be able
00:58:32 ◼ ► to do some level of productivity in here i think the question is always going to be why am i doing
00:58:36 ◼ ► this on a headset and not on an iphone or an ipad or a computer and maybe the reason is that they
00:58:44 ◼ ► want you to think of this as a productivity device where like you can go this is that famous concept
00:58:49 ◼ ► of you know what if i go on a on a business trip and i don't bring my laptop instead i just bring
00:58:54 ◼ ► the headset and i can sit in the hotel room and i can do work with a big monitor and everything
00:58:58 ◼ ► but i actually am just using the headset maybe maybe not we'll see but the the there's a not a
00:59:04 ◼ ► very heavy lift to bring these apps in their basic form to the headset the question is which ones
00:59:12 ◼ ► deserve more and that's the that's a little bit of the mystery here on that note about like kind
00:59:20 ◼ ► of going back a little bit talking about these apps like ipad apps a quote from the marks report
00:59:25 ◼ ► the device will be able to run multiple apps at the same time floating within the mixed reality
00:59:29 ◼ ► interface the product will remember where you were physically when you were using the app
00:59:34 ◼ ► if say a user runs the web browser from the kitchen goes to another room and then comes
00:59:39 ◼ ► back the browser will reappear i like that this feels a little like siri intelligence almost which
00:59:45 ◼ ► is like except for spatial right where it's like oh i know that this time of day you do this this
00:59:50 ◼ ► is i know that you know when you're in the kitchen you had the web browser up so i'm going to do that
00:59:54 ◼ ► so yeah or imagine uh stage stage manager that's geotagged what i would like in this is like you
01:00:01 ◼ ► know we both have spoken about mela the recipe right if that was just pinned to my wall always
01:00:09 ◼ ► in the kitchen right right like because that's what i that's the place where i need it it's the
01:00:14 ◼ ► place where i want it it's like that kind of thing could make sense with a headset on i mean we also
01:00:20 ◼ ► have to think on one level this all is seems a little we're gonna have some questions where it
01:00:25 ◼ ► seems ridiculous like why am i doing the headset there and i think we're gonna be able to analyze
01:00:30 ◼ ► this when this thing is real and say what's apple thinking here because something like web browser
01:00:44 ◼ ► i think the answer is imagine the future product that is always not as cumbersome and that's ar
01:00:55 ◼ ► and that you would wear and is augmenting all aspects of your life i think part of what apple
01:01:01 ◼ ► is trying to do with this in the long run is that and so some stuff might make more sense
01:01:08 ◼ ► in the near term and some stuff might be like well this is great but i'm not going to actually
01:01:14 ◼ ► cook with this thing on and the answer will be no but in five years you'll wear something
01:01:21 ◼ ► and you will use it to cook but so we're starting that process now it'll be interesting to see that
01:01:26 ◼ ► because some of the stuff will seem a lot less practical than other stuff will mark calls out
01:01:30 ◼ ► a few things that we've mentioned around video so we've been kind of worrying wondering about this
01:01:35 ◼ ► for a while like watching movies in a vr theater which is a thing that we've both done with oculus
01:01:40 ◼ ► products in the past and then also like kind of sports and live events that you would actually be
01:01:46 ◼ ► able to have some kind of presence within that event which was you know there was a company
01:01:51 ◼ ► called next vr that apple bought many years ago and they were doing this exact thing so they would
01:01:56 ◼ ► set up at a sporting event record it and then you could use their tools to watch it back and feel
01:02:01 ◼ ► like you had some kind of sense of being there in fact i i think even more than that we're going to
01:02:06 ◼ ► see this into um mls and friday night baseball where it's live where they're you know they've
01:02:17 ◼ ► got a vr rig or two or three or whatever and allow you to be um you know present at a sporting event
01:02:26 ◼ ► in a way that you're not currently and that's an interesting uh since they've got rights now to
01:02:31 ◼ ► some sporting events that's an interesting approach for them uh one of the big one of the ones that i
01:02:38 ◼ ► think is actually going to be a very big deal if they get it right is fitness plus if you could do
01:02:44 ◼ ► vr workout and you've got someone standing in front of you doing the workout but you can kind
01:02:51 ◼ ► of really like better see how i think that could be a really big deal if they get that i agree
01:02:57 ◼ ► and as a as a bike uh as a bike rider i would really love having the extra because i do i
01:03:04 ◼ ► have a stationary bike that i use sometimes especially when the weather is bad and it's
01:03:09 ◼ ► so boring yeah even if i'm watching tv shows it's just it's real boring and if i'm watching
01:03:13 ◼ ► an apple fitness thing which i do now um it's still kind of boring right like i like those
01:03:19 ◼ ► trainers fine but it's still kind of boring i think that in a circumstance where i could be
01:03:25 ◼ ► maybe riding with them maybe riding through a landscape while they're floating above me and
01:03:34 ◼ ► giving me instruction whatever it is i think there's some opportunity for some immersiveness
01:03:38 ◼ ► there beyond just you're in the apple fitness studio with the trainers although even that would
01:03:43 ◼ ► be kind of interesting yeah but you could as you say right the rowing workout why can't i be rowing
01:03:51 ◼ ► on a little creek somewhere little lake yeah yeah why not right why not do that yep and then this
01:03:58 ◼ ► part was fascinating to me uh mark german is saying now contrary to basically every report
01:04:03 ◼ ► that has come before gaming will now apparently be a central piece of the product quote the company
01:04:09 ◼ ► has been working with a small number of developers for months to help them upgrade their assisted
01:04:13 ◼ ► software for mixed reality there you go yeah and it's going to be who y'all know right it's going
01:04:19 ◼ ► to be this is very clearly developers of games that are on ios probably apple arcade games right
01:04:28 ◼ ► like uh there are some existing developers that it was a game that i loved called what the golf
01:04:33 ◼ ► that was one of the early arcade games they have a vr game called what the bat which is
01:04:37 ◼ ► hilarious and fantastic where you have bats for arms and so like there are already existing
01:04:45 ◼ ► developers that they're aware of that you know have vr titles that could be one way to do it
01:04:50 ◼ ► and and there could also be uh they could be working with people to create virtual reality
01:04:57 ◼ ► versions of their existing games etc etc but i still remain intrigued about what the control
01:05:04 ◼ ► mechanisms are if it's all going to be hand tracking i don't know yeah this device will have
01:05:10 ◼ ► biometrics in the form of eye scanning it's a iid oh god i hate that i guess it would be retina id
01:05:20 ◼ ► right retina id yeah something like that although if they call it iid incredible right like just
01:05:28 ◼ ► i would be flabbergasted but maybe it's one of those things everybody's written down nobody
01:05:35 ◼ ► said it out loud it was too late might be irises i don't know if it's irises or retinas or what
01:05:41 ◼ ► they're scanning but maybe maybe it's just your eyes and your face so maybe it's just face id
01:05:46 ◼ ► mark german followed up and so this was all the piece on bloomberg he didn't followed up in his
01:05:51 ◼ ► uh newsletter spoke a little bit more about this and kind of referred to the approach of scatter
01:05:56 ◼ ► shot uh this morning our friend to show steven hackett wrote about this approach and kind of he
01:06:03 ◼ ► compares the product launches over time of like iphone ipod apple watch like these big things and
01:06:09 ◼ ► kind of like how they were perceived at the time how they were spoken about you know like everybody
01:06:15 ◼ ► knows the iphone presentation right the three things and then apple tried to redo this a little
01:06:19 ◼ ► bit with the apple watch but that presentation ended up being much broader and he says the thing
01:06:25 ◼ ► that i like says every new product needs to be broad now because consumers assume that everything
01:06:30 ◼ ► is a computer that can be do computer things splashing cold water on the headsets upcoming
01:06:35 ◼ ► announcement because it appears to lack a killer app feels premature to me doing a bit of everything
01:06:41 ◼ ► is mere table stakes now so like this this whole thing that mark's talking about is like hey it
01:06:46 ◼ ► does everything but you know we've been talking about this in previous weeks of like the killer
01:06:52 ◼ ► app and what is a killer app like realistically the killer app for this headset is just using it
01:06:59 ◼ ► and it feels good like it but it needs to do it all or it'll emerge right like they'll give a sense
01:07:06 ◼ ► of a thing where it's like oh that thing is what everybody loves about it and these other things
01:07:10 ◼ ► don't matter but i agree with steven it's table stakes at this point and you've got the other
01:07:14 ◼ ► thing is apple's advantage here and this is actually what i wrote about in macworld last week
01:07:24 ◼ ► a zillion different bespoke hardware or software platforms for hardware that they make right
01:07:29 ◼ ► like they they don't just have one they have they have a half dozen of them the the only way they
01:07:34 ◼ ► can do that is by recycling everything is basically based on ios except for mac os and even that
01:07:39 ◼ ► they share code um and and uh history and so this product is going to be based on ios too and the
01:07:47 ◼ ► apps are going to be very much like ios the great advantage is what we talked about earlier you can
01:07:52 ◼ ► just bring in your ios apps and say you know do people want to use notes or or pages in in
01:07:58 ◼ ► vr maybe maybe not we don't know but um you can and then let's find out and they can do that at
01:08:07 ◼ ► a cost that is so much less than uh if you had to build everything like that from scratch like
01:08:12 ◼ ► facebook can't do that right but apple can do that and then they can see and then they can focus in
01:08:19 ◼ ► other areas and place some bets and i do think that that's what's going on and i and as stephen
01:08:24 ◼ ► points out like the apple watch did that too and i think there's i i i don't love it because the
01:08:30 ◼ ► ideal product launch is a product where you know exactly what it is um and why it's going to be a
01:08:35 ◼ ► hit but the truth is modern computing platforms are so varied that you kind of just need to fill
01:08:40 ◼ ► in the table stakes and then place some bets and then see what happens and go from there and follow
01:08:46 ◼ ► your users if you're going to build an operating system like if you're going to say this thing has
01:08:51 ◼ ► its own operating system in 2023 there are 15 things it needs to do right like it needs to be
01:08:57 ◼ ► able to access all your photos your messages you've got to be able to access your email your
01:09:02 ◼ ► account like it's got to have all of that and apple gets that for free if not for free apple
01:09:07 ◼ ► gets that for real cheap yeah and that's that's one of their huge advantages with this is they
01:09:11 ◼ ► get it for cheap because it's an ipad on your head right and so it can run that software unmodified
01:09:18 ◼ ► probably right just as a window probably doesn't even need anything they're probably gestures that
01:09:22 ◼ ► are equivalents and all of that right so that gets them that and then they add extra stuff yeah it's
01:09:31 ◼ ► how you interact with a touch device on a virtual screen and how you move around to different apps
01:09:36 ◼ ► and different windows and different apps and that that layer of it matters a lot and what these
01:09:41 ◼ ► individual kind of like apps that go beyond like the wellness app that's a good place where you
01:09:49 ◼ ► need to figure it out if there's a meditation app or whatever it is so you know that's the that's
01:09:55 ◼ ► the trick is you place your bets you do the table stakes sorry i'm mixing my gambling metaphors here
01:09:59 ◼ ► but you do the table stakes and then you and then you have areas of interest where you kind of add
01:10:03 ◼ ► on and then you and really you ship it and see what happens i'm a firm believer in that that
01:10:09 ◼ ► like that that's what they have to do is they have that's why this product has to ship because they
01:10:14 ◼ ► got it they got to start going and they got to start getting legitimate feedback from the world
01:10:18 ◼ ► about the decisions that they made on the inside that were right and the decisions that they made
01:10:22 ◼ ► on the inside that were wrong so that they can change direction and you you just won't know that
01:10:26 ◼ ► until you ship it marco has a few details about the battery pack to wrap this one up today
01:10:31 ◼ ► it will feature a magnetic connector so there will be like a cable coming from the battery pack
01:10:38 ◼ ► that will have a make a proprietary magnetic connector on the end that you'll attach to the
01:10:42 ◼ ► headset and you twist it so it locks so that way it won't come out and cut your power right right
01:10:49 ◼ ► you'll just twist it disconnect easily the battery pack will look similar to the magsafe iphone
01:10:55 ◼ ► battery pack but will be bigger and should give about two hours of power so mark expects which
01:11:01 ◼ ► would make sense that you would have the ability to buy extras of these so you could you know have
01:11:07 ◼ ► three of them and keep charging charges by usb-c the battery pack itself the headset also has a
01:11:14 ◼ ► usb-c port on it so maybe you could just plug it in if you're seated and just power it that way
01:11:21 ◼ ► right like that you'd have the option potentially but yeah that's how it's gonna run i think they're
01:11:25 ◼ ► gonna need to do that if they're really talking about doing productivity things i feel like
01:11:30 ◼ ► they're gonna need to have the ability for you to plug in directly yep why not right and that
01:11:36 ◼ ► would maybe that's an extra you know hundred dollar a six foot cable that does that i don't
01:11:43 ◼ ► know yeah maybe special vr cables gold-lined vr cables yeah this episode is brought to you by
01:11:53 ◼ ► ladder look we all have a tendency to put some things off to the very last minute i know i do
01:11:58 ◼ ► this all the time right i'm sure that you do too whether it's going to the dmv arranging a dental
01:12:04 ◼ ► checkup which i'm so bad at or getting to that next home improvement project you know the kinds
01:12:09 ◼ ► of things i'm talking about while most of the time it works out you just get it done when you get it
01:12:13 ◼ ► done one of the things in life that you cannot afford to wait on is setting up term coverage
01:12:18 ◼ ► life insurance you've probably seen life insurance commercials on tv and you thought i'll get to it
01:12:23 ◼ ► later on but this isn't something you want to wait on choose life insurance through ladder today
01:12:28 ◼ ► ladder is 100 digital no doctors no needles no paperwork when you apply for three million dollars
01:12:34 ◼ ► in coverage or less you just answer a few questions about your health in an application
01:12:38 ◼ ► ladder's customers rate them 4.8 out of five stars on trustpilot and they made forbs best
01:12:45 ◼ ► life insurance list of 2021 you just need a few minutes and a phone or a laptop to apply ladder's
01:12:51 ◼ ► smart algorithms work in real time so you'll find out if you're instantly approved there are no
01:12:56 ◼ ► hidden fees and you can cancel at any time and you'll get a full refund if you change your mind
01:13:01 ◼ ► in the first 30 days ladder's policies are issued by insurers with long proven histories of paying
01:13:07 ◼ ► out claims they are rated a and a plus by am best and since life insurance costs more as you age
01:13:14 ◼ ► now's the time to cross it off your list so go today to ladderlife.com upgrade to see if you're
01:13:21 ◼ ► instantly approved that's l-a-d-d-e-r life.com upgrade one last time ladderlife.com upgrade
01:13:29 ◼ ► our thanks to ladder for the support of this show and relay fm it is time for some ask upgrade
01:13:37 ◼ ► questions the first one comes from brent today who says i'm curious how you do your show notes
01:13:45 ◼ ► for the show specifically does each episode get a new file in google docs or do you have one single
01:13:52 ◼ ► document that you update every single episode and is this the same for all of your shows one single
01:13:58 ◼ ► document that we update each episode and for all of my shows that have show notes that is how we do
01:14:05 ◼ ► it yep the upgrade document there have been three of them in total because it gets to a certain point
01:14:12 ◼ ► where the document becomes really unusable on ios like there's just so much history in the document
01:14:23 ◼ ► so we set up a new document but we keep those old ones so this is from like episode 450 onwards
01:14:29 ◼ ► this is how i do for all of my shows like just the same google doc all the time i know that on mac
01:14:35 ◼ ► power users they use a new one every time and i cannot understand that it doesn't because they're
01:14:40 ◼ ► monsters um i will say that incomparable and we have this now with our our google sheet uh
01:14:48 ◼ ► i have a planning sheet yeah mac break weekly and twit and also clockwise have a google sheet with
01:14:58 ◼ ► new tabs for every episode and what they do there is they have a generic tab that they duplicate or
01:15:06 ◼ ► if you don't have that you you make a duplicate and then you delete everything from the previous
01:15:10 ◼ ► episode and put in the new information but that works better if you've got something where it's
01:15:14 ◼ ► sort of like the format is we're going to talk about these links or the format is uh everybody
01:15:20 ◼ ► brings a topic like clockwise what we do on upgrade is much more detailed and doesn't fit
01:15:26 ◼ ► that format so you can't outline in google sheets right so it's a google doc and then we just delete
01:15:33 ◼ ► it and i mean you you basically just delete it and put in the new sponsors and the new number and
01:15:38 ◼ ► and then new content in you know between the headers because i can always go back to the
01:15:42 ◼ ► history and see any episode that i want which i love if we need to we can go to the version
01:15:46 ◼ ► history and it allows us to put a bunch of stuff down at the bottom of like like you know here's an
01:15:50 ◼ ► extra thing and here's an idea and that all lives down at the bottom of the document yep
01:15:54 ◼ ► jack asks what are your favorite safari extensions and are they different on mac os and ios i have
01:16:03 ◼ ► just three and they're the same on all of my devices um one is super agent super agent is
01:16:11 ◼ ► a fantastic app that basically means that i never need to see cookie notices anymore right you set
01:16:18 ◼ ► some preferences in super agent and then every time a cookie notice comes up it just applies
01:16:25 ◼ ► those settings to whatever the cookie thing is right so like it can turn off tracking cookies
01:16:30 ◼ ► it can enable functional cookies only and then i just don't see them anymore um one password is
01:16:36 ◼ ► one of my extensions i really like it on ios a lot i think it does a great job um and then honey
01:16:41 ◼ ► i use honey this is the one where like it can save you money as you shop it's like why not just have
01:16:47 ◼ ► it there i've used it i have it there i haven't saved a lot of money with it but i've saved some
01:16:52 ◼ ► so why not right it's just there whenever i'm checking out it will check to see if there's
01:16:57 ◼ ► any available codes for me and apply them i'm using um one blocker i'm using which is an ad
01:17:07 ◼ ► blocker that's also content and custom i actually what was it i was on a website that i won't name
01:17:13 ◼ ► but it's a tech uh website and they have a new template where in the middle of the article they
01:17:29 ◼ ► turned on but that is inserting uh a comment in the story text essentially and i yeah i hate it
01:17:38 ◼ ► and one of the things one blocker lets you do is custom blockers where you if you can find the
01:17:53 ◼ ► of like the element that's in there and you just turn it off and it goes away so you can build your
01:18:01 ◼ ► own custom content blocking um so i it's blocking ads but it's also blocking comments and trackers
01:18:08 ◼ ► and widgets and other stuff um so i use that one password obviously and i am using um i wrote about
01:18:16 ◼ ► this a while ago redirect web for safari which basically is an app that lets you and and stop the
01:18:22 ◼ ► madness i think does this too you can basically put a url pattern in and say take this url pattern
01:18:27 ◼ ► when you see it and redirect it to a different web page and i actually use that because there are a
01:18:31 ◼ ► bunch of local newspapers in the bay area who are owned by the same company and they all have the
01:18:36 ◼ ► same url scheme and i subscribe to one of them but the subscriptions don't cross so it's set up that
01:18:42 ◼ ► if it hits a uh a url on the one site it rewrites that url to the site that i subscribe to which is
01:18:52 ◼ ► pretty cool yeah that's it james asks do you often use alternate icons for apps on ios or do you
01:19:00 ◼ ► stick with the default ones if an app has a a picker i will usually choose something yeah and
01:19:08 ◼ ► then i generally just leave it there forever after that i'll always take a look right and like most
01:19:12 ◼ ► of the apps that i like the most i i've chosen something uh custom for it just because they're
01:19:18 ◼ ► fun usually for me it's usually a color like i've chosen a bunch of orange ones yep but um yeah i'll
01:19:24 ◼ ► i'll give it a shot i don't change them at all but if if a if an i don't do the thing where you
01:19:30 ◼ ► make a shortcut and have a custom icon i don't do it no but i but i do if the app lets me pick i
01:19:35 ◼ ► will choose and and i'll do some of them if it's a they've got like a six colors uh rainbow apple
01:19:40 ◼ ► thing i'll do that because on brand right um i do that in some so yeah a little bit of six color
01:19:46 ◼ ► ones because they look good yeah okay one that way um i use the purple slack icon which is the
01:19:53 ◼ ► only good one in my opinion um which a lot of people don't know that there is an icon picker
01:19:59 ◼ ► and so yeah it's not great but like you only get three options i use that too because it it's
01:20:03 ◼ ► harder to think that it's the photos app yep the white one is is not great on the iphone because
01:20:08 ◼ ► it looks like so many other apps that are just just white with all the primary colors yeah i
01:20:15 ◼ ► use a few where i have the option to do so but there are some apps that i wish had better options
01:20:21 ◼ ► to say like todoist has a bunch of options but i don't like any of them so i just use the default
01:20:28 ◼ ► one but i think i would like to change it but i don't like the options that they give me this is
01:20:34 ◼ ► a fun piece of trivia in the discord james says the six color p-calc icon is the most popular one
01:20:39 ◼ ► that's fun love it and brock says should apple bring back the glowing logo on the lid of mac
01:20:48 ◼ ► books we've added we've asked this or we've answered this before this has been asked before
01:20:52 ◼ ► it's been answered before but i'll just say it again yes absolutely apple should and if it takes
01:20:57 ◼ ► more engineering or if they have to do like a custom led on the back or whatever like yeah they
01:21:03 ◼ ► should in fact wouldn't it be amazing if it was a custom thing and you could control it separately
01:21:08 ◼ ► but uh whatever reason i i'm sure there were some very good engineering reasons why it went away but
01:21:14 ◼ ► uh they should absolutely bring it back it was great that's it like that's the answer i'm gonna
01:21:20 ◼ ► say i'm gonna say no i'm gonna say no so hit what you said about if it was customizable in some way
01:21:26 ◼ ► maybe like if you could do something fun with it but like if it's just gonna glow white no i prefer
01:21:31 ◼ ► my color matched midnight apple logo than if it was lit up oh no so this is like what they should
01:21:40 ◼ ► do instead is more colors right because then you can get a yellow one or an orange one and they're
01:21:48 ◼ ► matched like you don't need it to light up oh i like it when it glows though it just is so pretty
01:22:06 ◼ ► like i don't want that i don't you gotta send out a beacon like here it is the apple logo
01:22:12 ◼ ► if you would like to send in a question for us to answer and ask upgrade you can go to upgrade
01:22:18 ◼ ► feedback.com you can also send us in your follow-up and your general feedback for the show
01:22:29 ◼ ► the incomparable.com and here on relay fm you can listen to my shows here on relay fm and check out
01:22:34 ◼ ► my work at cortexbrand.com we're on mastodon you can find jason as @jsnell on zeppelin.flights
01:22:41 ◼ ► you can find me as @imike on mike.social and you can find the show on relay fm.social as @upgrade
01:22:55 ◼ ► thank you to our members and also wriggly spearmint gum we're also upgrade relay on there
01:23:01 ◼ ► thank you to our members who support us with upgrade plus today on upgrade plus you're gonna
01:23:06 ◼ ► if you are a member you're gonna get to hear us talk about the results of our rss exploration
01:23:12 ◼ ► challenge go to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up thank you to our sponsors ladder zock doc