Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 450. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14 ◼   ► ExpressVPN and Campital One. I'm Mike Hurley and I'm joined by Jason

00:00:18 ◼   ► Snow. Hi Jason. Hi Mike Hurley. I'm back two in a row for

00:00:22 ◼   ► me. Look at that. Making a streak here in

00:00:25 ◼   ► episode 450. We're starting a new record. Can you go? What would it be?

00:00:29 ◼   ► - It might be, so you went to, you got like 447.

00:00:33 ◼   ► So now you have to get to 448 episodes.

00:00:35 ◼   ► - Even then I cheated by recording segments and--

00:00:38 ◼   ► - Doesn't matter.

00:00:39 ◼   ► - You know, but we've broken the glass now.

00:00:41 ◼   ► So now when I go on vacation again--

00:00:43 ◼   ► - It's gonna be a full time.

00:00:44 ◼   ► - We'll just, yeah.

00:00:46 ◼   ► See, here's the problem.

00:00:48 ◼   ► My lovely wife has a real job and limited vacation time.

00:00:53 ◼   ► So I could just go whenever.

00:00:56 ◼   ► - Whenever you want.

00:00:57 ◼   ► But I can't, so yeah, exactly.

00:01:00 ◼   ► - I have a Snell Talk question for you, comes from David.

00:01:04 ◼   ► David wants to know,

00:01:06 ◼   ► what device do you use the most for iMessage?

00:01:09 ◼   ► - I feel like this is really just a proxy

00:01:12 ◼   ► for what device you use the most, at least for me,

00:01:15 ◼   ► because I am usually using a device.

00:01:18 ◼   ► And so I'm gonna disappoint people, I suppose,

00:01:22 ◼   ► or at least I'm gonna once again say

00:01:24 ◼   ► what I've said on the show before,

00:01:25 ◼   ► which is, I am not your typical Apple product user

00:01:30 ◼   ► in the sense that I don't use my iPhone very much.

00:01:33 ◼   ► I don't go outside.

00:01:34 ◼   ► I don't like, right?

00:01:35 ◼   ► And when I do go outside, I often,

00:01:37 ◼   ► I just bring my Apple watch.

00:01:38 ◼   ► So the answer is probably my Mac,

00:01:43 ◼   ► but maybe my iPad, 'cause it's all contextual.

00:01:47 ◼   ► And I'm usually either on my Mac or my iPad.

00:01:50 ◼   ► And if I'm not on them, the iPad is close to me.

00:01:53 ◼   ► The phone generally sits on its charger.

00:01:57 ◼   ► So it's usually not at hand at any point

00:02:00 ◼   ► unless I'm out and about.

00:02:02 ◼   ► So I would say, you know, it's either my Mac or my iPad,

00:02:06 ◼   ► depending on context.

00:02:07 ◼   ► So that's the truth of it,

00:02:10 ◼   ► is I just don't use my iPhone very much.

00:02:12 ◼   ► - For me, I'm not sure of the exact answer.

00:02:15 ◼   ► It's probably my iPhone because of weekends, right?

00:02:20 ◼   ► So like I'm not sitting in front of the Mac

00:02:21 ◼   ► or my desk on the weekends, right?

00:02:23 ◼   ► so I'm texting them on my phone.

00:02:25 ◼   ► But I know that recently I have come to want to more

00:02:29 ◼   ► frequently send iMessages at my Mac

00:02:32 ◼   ► because I like to use my actual nice keyboard

00:02:35 ◼   ► rather than the iPhone keyboard.

00:02:36 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:02:37 ◼   ► - I'm less likely to have auto-correct issues

00:02:40 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:02:41 ◼   ► But I think realistically it's probably my iPhone

00:02:44 ◼   ► because I am only at a Mac

00:02:48 ◼   ► whenever I'm at the studio.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Outside of that, I'm going to be using my iPhone.

00:02:54 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a "Snow Talk"

00:02:56 ◼   ► question of your own, just go to upgradefeedback.com,

00:02:59 ◼   ► and you can tick the box, fill it out,

00:03:02 ◼   ► and your question may be answered on a future episode.

00:03:05 ◼   ► We have some follow-up, Jason Snow.

00:03:07 ◼   ► -Okay. -Julianne and Michael

00:03:09 ◼   ► both wrote in to suggest --

00:03:10 ◼   ► We were talking about two-factor codes and SMSes

00:03:13 ◼   ► and stuff like that -- that they create a contact

00:03:16 ◼   ► for their two-factor codes

00:03:18 ◼   ► and then add all of the numbers

00:03:19 ◼   ► that you get codes from to it.

00:03:21 ◼   ► I've heard, I think John Siracusa recommend this before.

00:03:26 ◼   ► The reason I'd never done this is because I'm too lazy

00:03:28 ◼   ► to do it, to be honest, is the real reason.

00:03:31 ◼   ► If it was simple, fine.

00:03:34 ◼   ► But the idea of having to do that all the time,

00:03:36 ◼   ► I just never done it.

00:03:37 ◼   ► Plus, up until very recently,

00:03:39 ◼   ► I had significant issues with my contacts

00:03:43 ◼   ► and them saving those devices

00:03:45 ◼   ► to the point where maybe this is a few months ago,

00:03:48 ◼   ► I exported my contacts from my Mac and I deleted them all.

00:03:53 ◼   ► I ran them back in again, did a de-duping thing and busy,

00:03:57 ◼   ► I think it was busy contact I used,

00:03:59 ◼   ► de-duped all my contacts

00:04:00 ◼   ► 'cause they had triplicated over time.

00:04:03 ◼   ► So I de-duped them all, put them back in,

00:04:05 ◼   ► and now it's all perfect.

00:04:06 ◼   ► If I had a contact on one device, it syncs up on another,

00:04:09 ◼   ► this would be years this would be going on for.

00:04:11 ◼   ► So these are the two reasons.

00:04:13 ◼   ► I did create a Mr. Two-Factor contact,

00:04:18 ◼   ► and I'm trying that out.

00:04:21 ◼   ► But I think our larger point was,

00:04:22 ◼   ► it would be nice if the system knew

00:04:26 ◼   ► that these were just two-factor codes

00:04:27 ◼   ► and kind of just hid them, right?

00:04:29 ◼   ► - Well, it did more, right?

00:04:30 ◼   ► 'Cause we know that they do.

00:04:32 ◼   ► We know that they do.

00:04:33 ◼   ► - I think maybe Android does that out.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Somebody said like after a couple of weeks,

00:04:36 ◼   ► Android kind of like suppresses them

00:04:38 ◼   ► 'cause they know that they're just not important.

00:04:41 ◼   ► And I just, I feel like that's an area that Apple could explore.

00:04:45 ◼   ► I do have a funny thing in my found.

00:04:47 ◼   ► This is a tangent, but a funny thing I found in my contacts.

00:04:50 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:51 ◼   ► If you'd like to, if you'd like to see it.

00:04:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I'd love to see it.

00:04:54 ◼   ► So this is like stupid contact tricks.

00:04:56 ◼   ► So when I go to Arizona, my mom lives really far outside and I used to rent a

00:05:02 ◼   ► car, but car rental now is incredibly expensive and I discovered that there's

00:05:06 ◼   ► this real cottage industry in my mom's community out in the middle of nowhere,

00:05:10 ◼   ► where people from that community make money,

00:05:12 ◼   ► basically picking up people at the airport

00:05:15 ◼   ► and driving them back

00:05:16 ◼   ► or driving people from that community to the airport.

00:05:19 ◼   ► But it's really kind of like a transitory kind of job.

00:05:24 ◼   ► People get other jobs.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Like the first guy who drove me,

00:05:26 ◼   ► he was like also selling real estate on the side.

00:05:28 ◼   ► And then the last time he took me, he was like,

00:05:30 ◼   ► "Yeah, I'm stopping.

00:05:31 ◼   ► You set this up, so I'm driving you,

00:05:34 ◼   ► but I'm out of the driving business

00:05:36 ◼   ► and I'm in the real estate business half full time."

00:05:38 ◼   ► And so they keep moving around

00:05:39 ◼   ► and sometimes they're not available

00:05:40 ◼   ► and they recommend other people.

00:05:42 ◼   ► And as a result, at the bottom of my contacts list,

00:05:44 ◼   ► I have this collection that I sent you the screenshot

00:05:48 ◼   ► in the Discord, this collection of people

00:05:50 ◼   ► who are all first names followed by a car emoji

00:05:53 ◼   ► of some sort.

00:05:55 ◼   ► So I've got, you know, Dan blue car, Ryan blue car,

00:05:59 ◼   ► Chris red car.

00:06:00 ◼   ► And then yesterday I put in,

00:06:02 ◼   ► while I was trying to find somebody to take me

00:06:03 ◼   ► to my mom's house, Bart, Carol and Mary taxi emoji.

00:06:07 ◼   ► And that's how they live.

00:06:09 ◼   ► They're all, I have my little car fam

00:06:11 ◼   ► down there at the bottom.

00:06:12 ◼   ► - Do these people do like Uber and Lyft as well?

00:06:17 ◼   ► - Some of them do.

00:06:18 ◼   ► - Right.

00:06:19 ◼   ► - Some of them do Uber and Lyft as well.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:06:23 ◼   ► - Does your mom live in like a village kind of?

00:06:26 ◼   ► 'Cause this feels very village-y to me.

00:06:28 ◼   ► - It is, so she's more than an hour

00:06:31 ◼   ► outside of the Phoenix Airport and it's in a town,

00:06:35 ◼   ► but it's actually not in that town.

00:06:36 ◼   ► It's out.

00:06:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, basically it's like a housing development

00:06:40 ◼   ► where there's just a load of houses

00:06:43 ◼   ► and on one side of the street, it's the 55 plus community.

00:06:47 ◼   ► And on the other side of the street,

00:06:48 ◼   ► anybody can live there and there's like pools

00:06:50 ◼   ► and pickleball courts and whatever else.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Like there's all that stuff is there.

00:06:57 ◼   ► So it is a little bit like, yeah,

00:07:00 ◼   ► like she's in a community that's been plopped down,

00:07:02 ◼   ► not quite out in the middle of nowhere,

00:07:03 ◼   ► but real close to the middle of nowhere.

00:07:07 ◼   ► So that's contact.

00:07:08 ◼   ► We've spent some time recently on this show,

00:07:11 ◼   ► on my other shows too, talking about live activities

00:07:13 ◼   ► and where they're popping up and where they're not.

00:07:16 ◼   ► And I saw on one of my favorite web blogs, sixcolors.com,

00:07:20 ◼   ► that the MLB app has been updated

00:07:22 ◼   ► with live activity support,

00:07:23 ◼   ► which I'm sure you're pretty jazzed about.

00:07:26 ◼   ► - For the baseball, yeah.

00:07:27 ◼   ► It's spring training right now,

00:07:28 ◼   ► so the data is not consistent yet.

00:07:30 ◼   ► I assume that when they get to the actual stadiums

00:07:34 ◼   ► and the season begins, the data will be more consistent.

00:07:36 ◼   ► So right now it's a little inconsistent,

00:07:37 ◼   ► but the way it's supposed to work,

00:07:38 ◼   ► and it works in some cases,

00:07:40 ◼   ► is you, in the MLB app,

00:07:42 ◼   ► you set your favorite team or teams.

00:07:44 ◼   ► And then those teams,

00:07:46 ◼   ► when you're in the game view on the iPhone,

00:07:49 ◼   ► there is a highlight for,

00:07:52 ◼   ► like under the game that says, "Track this game,"

00:07:54 ◼   ► and a little blue track button that you can tap.

00:07:56 ◼   ► And at which point, when you close the app,

00:08:00 ◼   ► you get a live activity that has spawned,

00:08:02 ◼   ► that is the information about the game.

00:08:04 ◼   ► And people have said,

00:08:06 ◼   ► Some people have said that it's delayed a little bit.

00:08:08 ◼   ► It's not really current.

00:08:10 ◼   ► Other people have said that that's not an issue.

00:08:11 ◼   ► I imagine again, that this is all actually

00:08:14 ◼   ► Major League Baseball working this stuff out too,

00:08:17 ◼   ► because again, they're not playing real games now.

00:08:19 ◼   ► They're playing practice games

00:08:21 ◼   ► as they get ready for the season.

00:08:22 ◼   ► And so we'll see how it goes during the regular season,

00:08:25 ◼   ► but it's a cool idea.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Also, I can't find it in the iPad app,

00:08:28 ◼   ► which technically has live activities, right?

00:08:31 ◼   ► Like aren't there live activities

00:08:32 ◼   ► on the live screen in the iPad?

00:08:34 ◼   ► Or are there not?

00:08:35 ◼   ► or is it only there at all?

00:08:36 ◼   ► Okay, well then let's just file that.

00:08:38 ◼   ► Like, why are they not there at all?

00:08:40 ◼   ► - Well, this is that thing, right?

00:08:41 ◼   ► You do widgets one year. - I use lock screen

00:08:42 ◼   ► on my iPad all the time.

00:08:43 ◼   ► - Then you do widgets on iPad the next year, right?

00:08:46 ◼   ► You do app library and then the next year.

00:08:47 ◼   ► So live activities, this one.

00:08:49 ◼   ► - I don't like it.

00:08:50 ◼   ► I know there's no Dynamic Island,

00:08:51 ◼   ► but there's still a lock screen

00:08:52 ◼   ► that I'm on all the time for my iPad.

00:08:54 ◼   ► - Well, because there are live activities

00:08:56 ◼   ► on phones without Dynamic Islands.

00:08:59 ◼   ► - Right, but not on the iPad.

00:09:01 ◼   ► - There's no reason why they just didn't do it.

00:09:03 ◼   ► And so it will be the big thing of iPadOS 17 or whatever.

00:09:08 ◼   ► - So, okay.

00:09:10 ◼   ► So I'll then say, this is exciting, but again,

00:09:13 ◼   ► I just said earlier, I don't use my iPhone that much.

00:09:17 ◼   ► So when I'm out and about, but then again, live activity,

00:09:19 ◼   ► when I'm out and about, and this live activity

00:09:23 ◼   ► is on my phone for like the Giants game,

00:09:25 ◼   ► that'll be great, right?

00:09:27 ◼   ► - Here's a question.

00:09:28 ◼   ► - But it's not the primary use case

00:09:29 ◼   ► that I would have for it, unfortunately,

00:09:31 ◼   ► 'cause that would be on the iPad.

00:09:32 ◼   ► What about live activities for Apple Watch?

00:09:35 ◼   ► Why doesn't that exist?

00:09:36 ◼   ► - I know, well, I would use it,

00:09:38 ◼   ► I would love to have it on my Apple Watch too.

00:09:40 ◼   ► That there was a way, I don't know how that would work.

00:09:42 ◼   ► - Like just sitting there on the notification thing,

00:09:44 ◼   ► you pull down, get your live activity?

00:09:46 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, you could argue that,

00:09:47 ◼   ► I mean, there's like an MLB complication you could use,

00:09:50 ◼   ► but I think there's some challenges there

00:09:51 ◼   ► with data refresh, right?

00:09:52 ◼   ► Like that's my feeling about a lot of complications

00:09:55 ◼   ► on the Apple Watch.

00:09:56 ◼   ► - I mean, and visual,

00:09:57 ◼   ► like the amount of visuals you can have, right?

00:09:59 ◼   ► - Sure. - Like,

00:10:00 ◼   ► 'cause what I'm thinking is you could fit in

00:10:02 ◼   ► basically everything that's in the dynamic island into a notification on the Apple watch.

00:10:06 ◼   ► So it just lives in the notification drawer or whatever.

00:10:08 ◼   ► Yeah, just swipe down and see what's going on.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:10:13 ◼   ► I mean, there's a real UI challenge there, but I would love to see them find a way to

00:10:17 ◼   ► use this infrastructure of live activities and which feels, all this stuff feels like

00:10:22 ◼   ► it's sort of maybe even started with things for Apple watch.

00:10:25 ◼   ► And then they're like, Oh, we could do this on the phone.

00:10:27 ◼   ► It's like, okay, but there's also the Apple watch.

00:10:29 ◼   ► might be a good place to put that sort of thing too. Like, I don't know. It's an interesting

00:10:35 ◼   ► challenge, but I'd like to see more of it. Anyway, the MLB thing, I'll see how it works

00:10:39 ◼   ► in practice in terms of like how up-to-date is it and all of that, but I love the idea.

00:10:43 ◼   ► And I know that, you know, some of our friends who have like Stephen Hackett follows the

00:10:48 ◼   ► NBA and so he's been using an app to do NBA tracking for the Memphis Grizzlies and like,

00:10:54 ◼   ► It's a cool idea. I actually got my first carrot weather. I can give you a live activity

00:11:01 ◼   ► for the rain.

00:11:02 ◼   ► Oh, I got these all the time, obviously. I appreciate it.

00:11:06 ◼   ► London. But I got it today because we have lots of rain here right now. That was kind

00:11:12 ◼   ► of fun where it's like, "Yeah, I'll just put up a little live activity that tells you how

00:11:14 ◼   ► long the rain is going to last. In 18 minutes, it'll stop raining, theoretically." That's

00:11:22 ◼   ► - It's fun too, I mean, I really do like live activities.

00:11:27 ◼   ► You know, the thing I use the iPhone the most,

00:11:29 ◼   ► honestly is podcasts, 'cause I just do all my overcast,

00:11:32 ◼   ► like when I'm, even when I'm like taking a shower,

00:11:33 ◼   ► that's like with the iPhone.

00:11:34 ◼   ► So I, it's not like I'm not using my iPhone, I should say.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I do use my iPhone in very specific circumstances,

00:11:40 ◼   ► but if I'm just sitting in the house,

00:11:41 ◼   ► it's usually not with me, not always.

00:11:44 ◼   ► It's with me right now, actually.

00:11:45 ◼   ► So I do, I guess it does end up on my desk a lot,

00:11:48 ◼   ► where I'm looking down at the always on display.

00:11:51 ◼   ► So, you know, somewhat, but again,

00:11:53 ◼   ► if somebody sent me a text,

00:11:54 ◼   ► I would use my Mac 'cause keyboard.

00:11:57 ◼   ► - The Oscars were last night, the Academy Awards.

00:12:00 ◼   ► And Apple TV+ won the animated movie short.

00:12:05 ◼   ► So let me re-say that.

00:12:07 ◼   ► The Apple TV+ animated movie,

00:12:10 ◼   ► The Boy, The Mole, The Fox and The Horse,

00:12:12 ◼   ► won the Oscar for best animated short.

00:12:14 ◼   ► That is a clearer way of getting that across.

00:12:16 ◼   ► So this is the movie that you may remember

00:12:19 ◼   ► that Johnny Ive was an executive producer on.

00:12:22 ◼   ► They just picked up,

00:12:23 ◼   ► Apple's now picked up their second Academy Award.

00:12:26 ◼   ► I don't think they were up for anything else of note.

00:12:30 ◼   ► - There was a Best Supporting Actor nomination

00:12:33 ◼   ► for an Apple TV+ movie that that person didn't win.

00:12:37 ◼   ► But congratulations to the boy, the director, the mole,

00:12:41 ◼   ► the writer, the fox, the producer, the horse,

00:12:44 ◼   ► and Johnny Ives, yeah.

00:12:46 ◼   ► - Woody Arson was also.

00:12:48 ◼   ► This one just had a ton of people attached to it,

00:12:50 ◼   ► like Bad Robot was producing it,

00:12:52 ◼   ► and Woody Harrelson was executive producing it,

00:12:55 ◼   ► and Johnny Iov too.

00:12:56 ◼   ► - That's a, you know, I don't know.

00:12:58 ◼   ► There's a lot of people involved in the,

00:13:00 ◼   ► that category often has like,

00:13:01 ◼   ► it's like one person's labor of love,

00:13:04 ◼   ► and then in comes this thing that feels like

00:13:05 ◼   ► it was a very expensive star studded production,

00:13:10 ◼   ► and it wins the Academy Award, and I'm like,

00:13:12 ◼   ► on one level it's like, great,

00:13:13 ◼   ► and on another level I think to myself,

00:13:16 ◼   ► Come on, let the guy in his basement

00:13:19 ◼   ► who's been making a movie for five years

00:13:21 ◼   ► win his Academy Award.

00:13:22 ◼   ► But no, it was a big budget.

00:13:25 ◼   ► And it's that Johnny I.F. magic, that's what it was.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Probably, yeah.

00:13:29 ◼   ► - It was originally a longer full featured movie

00:13:33 ◼   ► but Johnny just took scenes out until it was a short.

00:13:37 ◼   ► - That's right, it's minimalism, yeah.

00:13:39 ◼   ► That's what he goes for.

00:13:40 ◼   ► That's right, we took it into the white room

00:13:42 ◼   ► and we edited it down.

00:13:44 ◼   ► It used to be the boy, the mole, the fox, the dog,

00:13:48 ◼   ► the chicken, the farmer, the ox.

00:13:53 ◼   ► - The horse and the hound and the fox.

00:13:55 ◼   ► - The horse and the horse's best friend

00:13:58 ◼   ► who is also a horse.

00:13:59 ◼   ► And Johnny's like, "There's too many things.

00:14:01 ◼   ► Too many things.

00:14:02 ◼   ► Can we cut it back?"

00:14:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:04 ◼   ► Good move.

00:14:05 ◼   ► - And they originally set it at sea,

00:14:06 ◼   ► but he didn't want there to be any ports in the movie, so.

00:14:10 ◼   ► - Oh, hey, zing.

00:14:12 ◼   ► - And also, I wonder how he'll, you know,

00:14:17 ◼   ► if he gets his hands on that Oscar,

00:14:18 ◼   ► nobody let him get his hands on the Oscar,

00:14:20 ◼   ► 'cause he's gonna be like, you know,

00:14:21 ◼   ► can we make this minimal and how about all white?

00:14:25 ◼   ► - What's the deal with Johnny Art?

00:14:27 ◼   ► Anyway, so the Apple Vision Accessibility Report Card

00:14:32 ◼   ► has been released, I saw you also linked to the six colors.

00:14:35 ◼   ► This was kind of an adaptation and progression

00:14:39 ◼   ► of the six colors report card,

00:14:41 ◼   ► into a very specific area of Apple-related technology.

00:14:44 ◼   ► I will read from Applevis.com.

00:14:47 ◼   ► "We are thrilled to unveil our inaugural

00:14:49 ◼   ► "Apple Vision Accessibility Report Card,

00:14:51 ◼   ► "which provides valuable insights into the experiences

00:14:54 ◼   ► "and opinions of visually impaired community members

00:14:56 ◼   ► "who rely on voiceover braille support

00:14:58 ◼   ► "or the low vision features on Apple devices."

00:15:01 ◼   ► It is a great idea, right?

00:15:02 ◼   ► Like, take an area that, you know,

00:15:05 ◼   ► if you are knowledgeable about

00:15:08 ◼   ► and rate it in the same way that the Six Colors report card does too. I think it's very smart.

00:15:13 ◼   ► I love it. Yeah, yeah. I love that they're taking... I think they asked... Every now and

00:15:18 ◼   ► then I get people are like, you know, "Could I do a report card?" And I'm like, "Yeah."

00:15:21 ◼   ► Like, there is nothing about that format that is owned by anybody. So be my guest to do that.

00:15:28 ◼   ► Well, it's like, as you mentioned, it wasn't even your idea in the first place, right? So like,

00:15:31 ◼   ► this is a community affair. No, it was Koi-Vin. Koi-Vin suggested it to me. He said, "Somebody

00:15:36 ◼   ► somebody should do this." And I said, "Okay, I'll do it." That my first year. And now I

00:15:40 ◼   ► do the Enterprise Report Card 2, which will actually be coming out in a few weeks, where

00:15:45 ◼   ► I ask IT professionals in the Apple space how they are feeling about Apple's IT efforts.

00:15:51 ◼   ► And so that's another spinoff of the premise. So I'm glad that Applevis.com did this. It's

00:15:57 ◼   ► a very cool idea.

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00:18:26 ◼   ► Saddle up Jason Snow, it's room around uptime.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Yee-haw.

00:18:32 ◼   ► - So we're going back to the well of MacBook Air,

00:18:36 ◼   ► which I feel like there's so,

00:18:37 ◼   ► there is so much smoke around these MacBook Airs right now.

00:18:41 ◼   ► - That's right, but is there fire?

00:18:42 ◼   ► That's the question, is there fire?

00:18:44 ◼   ► - We'll find out.

00:18:45 ◼   ► 9to5Mac has published a report of their own sources

00:18:50 ◼   ► that say that the upcoming 13 and 15 inch MacBook Airs

00:18:54 ◼   ► will be both announced together

00:18:57 ◼   ► and will feature an M3 chip.

00:18:59 ◼   ► So we were questioning about whether they would,

00:19:02 ◼   ► whether they'd maybe release one and then the other later,

00:19:04 ◼   ► you know, like M2 in the 15, M3 in the 13,

00:19:07 ◼   ► but lay it down the line.

00:19:09 ◼   ► They're saying that they will both be announced

00:19:11 ◼   ► at the same time and will feature M3 chips.

00:19:14 ◼   ► Nine to five also say that the M3 chip,

00:19:17 ◼   ► the CPU will have eight cores,

00:19:19 ◼   ► the same as the M1 and the M2.

00:19:21 ◼   ► But I guess what we're expecting is a increase,

00:19:25 ◼   ► potentially a significant increase, right,

00:19:27 ◼   ► in the actual speed of each core

00:19:31 ◼   ► because of the jump to three nanometer.

00:19:33 ◼   ► We'll see, I mean, who knows?

00:19:34 ◼   ► - And power efficiency too, those are the things

00:19:36 ◼   ► that work out like that. - There you go, yep.

00:19:38 ◼   ► The current 13-inch MacBook Pro will also apparently

00:19:41 ◼   ► be getting an M3 upgrade.

00:19:44 ◼   ► I don't know why I hadn't thought about this,

00:19:47 ◼   ► but of course it's not gonna go away.

00:19:49 ◼   ► Of course.

00:19:51 ◼   ► Apparently they said there was an internal discussion,

00:19:54 ◼   ► which ended up not progressing,

00:19:56 ◼   ► about just renaming this to MacBook.

00:19:59 ◼   ► I'm happy they're not doing that

00:20:00 ◼   ► because if they ever do a MacBook again,

00:20:03 ◼   ► I want it to be an actual product that they've created,

00:20:06 ◼   ► not just like a, this is an existing product

00:20:09 ◼   ► and we've just renamed it.

00:20:11 ◼   ► - Sad, strange product that also the MacBook Pro

00:20:14 ◼   ► is like literally, and I don't know this for a fact,

00:20:18 ◼   ► but all evidence suggests this product exists

00:20:20 ◼   ► specifically so they have something

00:20:22 ◼   ► that corporate buyers can buy and fulfill their policy

00:20:26 ◼   ► of only buying professional systems

00:20:29 ◼   ► by having this be a MacBook Pro,

00:20:30 ◼   ► even though it doesn't make sense

00:20:32 ◼   ► for any regular people to buy this thing.

00:20:35 ◼   ► - So in 9to5's reporting,

00:20:37 ◼   ► the one thing that they weren't sure of

00:20:39 ◼   ► is when exactly these products will launch.

00:20:41 ◼   ► Like they were trying to kind of pinpoint

00:20:44 ◼   ► potentially June, right, WWDC.

00:20:47 ◼   ► But Ross Young is again saying that he believes

00:20:50 ◼   ► that the 15 inch is expected to be launching in April.

00:20:53 ◼   ► Now, the reason he would say that

00:20:56 ◼   ► and the reason I can understand

00:20:58 ◼   ► why he is targeting that specific machine

00:21:02 ◼   ► is that's the change he can see in the product,

00:21:05 ◼   ► in the like the factory lines.

00:21:07 ◼   ► - The supply chain.

00:21:08 ◼   ► - Supply chain, that's the phrase I was looking for.

00:21:10 ◼   ► Because the 13 inch is just gonna keep looking

00:21:13 ◼   ► like the 13 inch if you're a display analyst, right?

00:21:15 ◼   ► Like there's no new panel, but the 15 inch panel's new.

00:21:19 ◼   ► So if he is aware, he seems to be aware of the fact

00:21:21 ◼   ► that it is in a specific part of the process,

00:21:24 ◼   ► which would indicate to him,

00:21:26 ◼   ► April is going to be the launch for this machine.

00:21:30 ◼   ► - So these reports are kind of at odds.

00:21:35 ◼   ► - Yes. - It's fascinating to me.

00:21:38 ◼   ► I still don't know quite what to think.

00:21:39 ◼   ► Ross Young being confident

00:21:41 ◼   ► that the 15-inch is launching in April, I guess,

00:21:44 ◼   ► and 9to5Mac being confident

00:21:45 ◼   ► that they're gonna launch together with an M3 chip.

00:21:49 ◼   ► I guess the question is, is the M3 chip gonna premiere

00:21:52 ◼   ► in April, like less than a year since they premiered

00:21:57 ◼   ► the M2 chip?

00:21:59 ◼   ► That is a scenario, I guess.

00:22:01 ◼   ► It's one that I had sort of discounted.

00:22:02 ◼   ► I've been assuming all along that they would debut

00:22:05 ◼   ► the M3 chip in June with the MacBook Air.

00:22:10 ◼   ► But what if, you know, that was a delayed product last year?

00:22:14 ◼   ► What if they're already at the point where they're ready

00:22:17 ◼   ► to move on to the M3.

00:22:19 ◼   ► And Ross Young doesn't have any visibility into the 13 inch

00:22:23 ◼   ► because that's the same panel as you said.

00:22:25 ◼   ► And so therefore he's not gonna be able

00:22:26 ◼   ► to detect a change there.

00:22:28 ◼   ► He can just see that the 15 inch panel is there.

00:22:30 ◼   ► The 9to5 Mac thinking it will be later is a tougher one.

00:22:35 ◼   ► I guess what that would suggest is maybe

00:22:37 ◼   ► that what Ross Young is seeing is a supply chain

00:22:40 ◼   ► that's cranking away on these things,

00:22:41 ◼   ► but that Apple isn't going to put them up for sale right away

00:22:44 ◼   ► and they're gonna hold them for a little while.

00:22:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, just to be clear,

00:22:48 ◼   ► Nine to Five don't have any sourcing on when.

00:22:52 ◼   ► They're just saying that that's when they expect

00:22:55 ◼   ► is to be the VC.

00:22:56 ◼   ► - Right, and I can understand it from, right,

00:22:59 ◼   ► like everything we've said about like,

00:23:01 ◼   ► but last year, so isn't it too soon and all of that.

00:23:04 ◼   ► What's in Ross Young's favor here is that he's,

00:23:07 ◼   ► he is looking at Apple and saying,

00:23:10 ◼   ► Apple doesn't produce computers in volume

00:23:16 ◼   ► and then just sit on them for months, right?

00:23:20 ◼   ► I mean, they could, they could produce them

00:23:22 ◼   ► and put them on a slow boat and save some money

00:23:26 ◼   ► and then have them ready to go.

00:23:28 ◼   ► But it would mean that the M3 is producing now, right?

00:23:32 ◼   ► It would mean, which there are,

00:23:33 ◼   ► I've seen reports that suggest that that's not the case,

00:23:37 ◼   ► that that process is not necessarily generating chips yet.

00:23:41 ◼   ► So the logic here in some ways is to say,

00:23:46 ◼   ► what Ross Young is really saying

00:23:49 ◼   ► is there's gonna be an M2 15 inch,

00:23:50 ◼   ► and then later there'll be an M3 13 inch,

00:23:53 ◼   ► but that's not what nine to five Mac sources say,

00:23:56 ◼   ► which is they're gonna launch together.

00:23:58 ◼   ► So it is, they're a little diametrically opposed here.

00:24:01 ◼   ► I suppose the simplest solution is,

00:24:04 ◼   ► yeah, turns out the M3 is ready.

00:24:06 ◼   ► And then in April, they're just gonna say,

00:24:07 ◼   ► new MacBook Airs, and also that MacBook Pro

00:24:10 ◼   ► that we don't talk about, and their M3s, yay, moving on.

00:24:15 ◼   ► And now we've got two versions of the MacBook Air.

00:24:17 ◼   ► Like that could be it.

00:24:18 ◼   ► It would certainly, if they did that,

00:24:20 ◼   ► it would certainly eliminate the weirdness of having,

00:24:24 ◼   ► you know, a 15 inch that is an M2

00:24:27 ◼   ► that's trailing the 13 inch that's an M3 by months,

00:24:31 ◼   ► by a few months, and therefore is, you know,

00:24:34 ◼   ► lagging behind and that would potentially suppress.

00:24:37 ◼   ► I'm not sure that many people would really care,

00:24:40 ◼   ► but it would be, you know, potential suppression of sales

00:24:45 ◼   ► because it's the old chip and not the new chip.

00:24:47 ◼   ► So it's mysterious, right?

00:24:49 ◼   ► Like, I wonder what the sources are here

00:24:52 ◼   ► and why this is happening this way.

00:24:54 ◼   ► - If I was gonna like put my cards on the table

00:24:59 ◼   ► with this one, I do not think this is a product

00:25:02 ◼   ► we see at WWDC.

00:25:03 ◼   ► I think they should not have anything at WWDC

00:25:07 ◼   ► that isn't 100% needed.

00:25:09 ◼   ► because it should be, by our current expectations,

00:25:14 ◼   ► an absolutely packed keynote.

00:25:15 ◼   ► And so spending time talking about a new MacBook Air

00:25:18 ◼   ► doesn't really make any sense.

00:25:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, if you do have a Mac there, have it be the Mac Pro.

00:25:22 ◼   ► But I agree, the MacBook Air is not a good fit.

00:25:24 ◼   ► And the only reason they did it last time

00:25:26 ◼   ► is because it was delayed quite a while.

00:25:29 ◼   ► So I mean, that is definitely a good working theory,

00:25:32 ◼   ► which is that they're actually back on track

00:25:35 ◼   ► with the M3 and the MacBook Air.

00:25:37 ◼   ► And that means that it's gonna be less than a year

00:25:40 ◼   ► because that one was delayed so much internally

00:25:44 ◼   ► that they announced it months after they wanted to,

00:25:47 ◼   ► according to reports,

00:25:48 ◼   ► that maybe they're back on track with this.

00:25:50 ◼   ► And once you've got the M3 ready to go,

00:25:52 ◼   ► there's no point in sticking around,

00:25:56 ◼   ► especially since you've got that MacBook Air design

00:25:58 ◼   ► ready to go, the existing one,

00:26:00 ◼   ► which none of us are expecting anything

00:26:01 ◼   ► other than the M2 MacBook Air to become an M3 MacBook Air.

00:26:04 ◼   ► And maybe they'll tweak the colors

00:26:06 ◼   ► or maybe they won't at all,

00:26:08 ◼   ► but it'll be basically the same

00:26:10 ◼   ► 'cause they just redesigned it.

00:26:11 ◼   ► So that design's gonna stick around for a while.

00:26:14 ◼   ► And this is probably the basis of the 15 inch design too.

00:26:17 ◼   ► So, I mean, that'd be great.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I would love to see MacBook,

00:26:19 ◼   ► and bring on like M3 MacBook Air next month.

00:26:21 ◼   ► I'd love to see that if they can make that work.

00:26:25 ◼   ► But it is a little funny that, you know,

00:26:28 ◼   ► these sources are, again, they seem to be colliding,

00:26:33 ◼   ► but there are scenarios in which they actually do

00:26:36 ◼   ► make sense together.

00:26:37 ◼   ► They're just surprising, I think,

00:26:38 ◼   ► scenarios that we weren't necessarily expecting.

00:26:41 ◼   ► - This is a short one.

00:26:42 ◼   ► Ming-Chi Kuo is reporting that Apple is set

00:26:44 ◼   ► to launch a redesigned HomePod

00:26:46 ◼   ► with a seven inch display in the first half of 2024.

00:26:49 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:26:50 ◼   ► - Please.

00:26:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm excited about this.

00:26:53 ◼   ► This is the idea that,

00:26:55 ◼   ► and I think Mark Gurman has reported about,

00:26:57 ◼   ► like that they are working on a lot of different,

00:26:59 ◼   ► this is like Apple's new home device strategy

00:27:03 ◼   ► that they're actually working on

00:27:04 ◼   ► and that this would be the first thing we'd see.

00:27:06 ◼   ► And I know I detailed, I think,

00:27:08 ◼   ► an upgrade plus a few weeks ago,

00:27:10 ◼   ► how I got rid of my Echo Show in my kitchen

00:27:14 ◼   ► and replaced it with a Google Nest Hub.

00:27:17 ◼   ► And I wrote about that last week on Six Colors.

00:27:20 ◼   ► It was great.

00:27:21 ◼   ► It was a success.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I was frustrated by all the junk

00:27:28 ◼   ► that had been collecting on the Amazon Echo

00:27:32 ◼   ► that Amazon kept shoving things onto the home screen

00:27:34 ◼   ► and kept having the voice assistant interrupt me.

00:27:39 ◼   ► Basically, anytime I would ask it anything,

00:27:41 ◼   ► it would tack on to their answer an ad

00:27:44 ◼   ► for some other thing.

00:27:45 ◼   ► - You have a notification.

00:27:47 ◼   ► Would you like to read?

00:27:48 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah.

00:27:49 ◼   ► We are delivering or have delivered a package to you.

00:27:52 ◼   ► Or by the way, did you know I do this thing?

00:27:54 ◼   ► And it's like, I got very frustrated.

00:27:56 ◼   ► I've been very happy with the Google device,

00:27:59 ◼   ► which while not perfect,

00:28:00 ◼   ► does the limited things that I want to do

00:28:03 ◼   ► without getting in my way.

00:28:04 ◼   ► But the truth is that in that moment of despair

00:28:07 ◼   ► where I finally said, let's just get the Google thing

00:28:10 ◼   ► and see if it's better,

00:28:11 ◼   ► I definitely had that feeling of like,

00:28:12 ◼   ► I wish Apple would do something here.

00:28:16 ◼   ► Now we'll see what they implement, right?

00:28:18 ◼   ► Like there's a lot of mysteries about

00:28:20 ◼   ► what does a HomePod with the display look like?

00:28:22 ◼   ► Like, is that, is it, are they widgets?

00:28:25 ◼   ► Is it tvOSy?

00:28:26 ◼   ► Is it iPadOSy?

00:28:27 ◼   ► Like, what is it?

00:28:29 ◼   ► I think there's some real questions there,

00:28:31 ◼   ► a little mystery about how they decide to do that,

00:28:33 ◼   ► but I'm hopeful that it will be a better fit

00:28:38 ◼   ► than what I've currently got.

00:28:41 ◼   ► And I'm really happy that Apple seems to actually care

00:28:44 ◼   ► about that category of the smart speaker with display,

00:28:48 ◼   ► which they have thus far not been interested in.

00:28:52 ◼   ► - Came downstairs this morning

00:28:53 ◼   ► and my Echo Show was showing to me,

00:28:56 ◼   ► Why don't you ask, what is the dog breed of the day?

00:29:00 ◼   ► The problem is for me, I find that infuriating.

00:29:05 ◼   ► There is at least one person in my home that loves that

00:29:08 ◼   ► and always asks, what's the dog breed of the day?

00:29:10 ◼   ► Loves it.

00:29:11 ◼   ► And so this is the issue that I'm in.

00:29:13 ◼   ► I don't want any of that anymore, but we're at odds here.

00:29:17 ◼   ► So there's nothing I can do about it.

00:29:20 ◼   ► Someone finds it adorable.

00:29:22 ◼   ► I find it maddening, but here we are.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Same, same.

00:29:28 ◼   ► I just, all that, like all the junk

00:29:31 ◼   ► that it puts on the screen that I don't,

00:29:33 ◼   ► like you can't, you can't avoid it.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Even when it's putting good information on the screen,

00:29:37 ◼   ► usually at the bottom, it's got like, say this phrase.

00:29:41 ◼   ► And it's just like, it's so aggressive with its marketing

00:29:43 ◼   ► and I just got tired of it.

00:29:45 ◼   ► But the thing that put me over the top

00:29:46 ◼   ► was the by the way interruptions, right?

00:29:48 ◼   ► Where it's like, I just, I just want,

00:29:50 ◼   ► or would you like me to enable that?

00:29:52 ◼   ► I've heard that several times where Lauren's in the kitchen

00:29:56 ◼   ► and she's asked for a timer or something like that

00:29:58 ◼   ► 'cause she's cooking dinner and it says,

00:29:59 ◼   ► "By the way, I can do this thing.

00:30:00 ◼   ► "Would you like me to do that?"

00:30:02 ◼   ► And she's like, "No!"

00:30:04 ◼   ► Right, it's like, "No, get out of my way.

00:30:06 ◼   ► "That's not what I'm doing right now."

00:30:08 ◼   ► - It was my biggest issue is that if I'm cooking, right,

00:30:10 ◼   ► that's when I'm usually set,

00:30:11 ◼   ► you know, that's when I'm using it the most,

00:30:13 ◼   ► I'm setting timers and stuff.

00:30:14 ◼   ► I'm cooking, I have my AirPods Pro in on noise canceling mode

00:30:19 ◼   ► 'cause I don't need to hear the cooking.

00:30:21 ◼   ► I wanna listen to a podcast or whatever.

00:30:24 ◼   ► So I say like, "Hey, set a 10 minute timer."

00:30:26 ◼   ► and I hear, "What is happening?"

00:30:39 ◼   ► Here's a fun Rorschach test for you.

00:30:43 ◼   ► The Financial Times is reporting that Tim Cook sided with Jeff Williams on pushing Apple

00:30:48 ◼   ► to launch their Mixed Reality headset this year.

00:30:51 ◼   ► This is against the wishes of the design team managing the project, who have concerns that

00:30:56 ◼   ► the product is not yet ready for launch.

00:30:59 ◼   ► They have said that they would prefer to wait until a lightweight AR product is possible.

00:31:05 ◼   ► So like 2027?

00:31:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:08 ◼   ► Quote from MacRumors via Financial Times, "The company's industrial design team cautioned

00:31:13 ◼   ► that devices in the category were not yet ready for launch and wanted to delay until

00:31:18 ◼   ► a lightweight AR glasses product had matured several years later. Williams' team pushed

00:31:24 ◼   ► for the mixed reality product even though it would be more limited than what they could

00:31:28 ◼   ► achieve in the future. Speaking to the Financial Times, former Apple engineers who worked on

00:31:34 ◼   ► the device described the huge pressure to ship.

00:31:37 ◼   ► - So yes, you're right, this is a real Rorschach test.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And, you know, maybe depends on what you thought

00:31:44 ◼   ► of that book that I didn't like about,

00:31:48 ◼   ► oh, the design team, the heroes of the design team.

00:31:50 ◼   ► I definitely raised an eyebrow at the idea that,

00:31:54 ◼   ► like, 'cause this story is not design team caution,

00:31:56 ◼   ► the product was not ready to go

00:31:58 ◼   ► and they needed to make some more tweaks

00:31:59 ◼   ► and they should push it back a year.

00:32:01 ◼   ► It's the design team rejects your premise

00:32:05 ◼   ► of a mixed reality headset and says,

00:32:08 ◼   ► "Let's not ship anything until we've created

00:32:11 ◼   ► the perfect form, which is lightweight AR glasses,

00:32:14 ◼   ► which will take another five years or longer."

00:32:18 ◼   ► That seems to be the story here, right?

00:32:21 ◼   ► And it is absolutely within the realm of reason

00:32:26 ◼   ► for Tim Cook and Jeff Williams to be like,

00:32:31 ◼   ► "Oh no, we're gonna ship the mixed reality headset first.

00:32:34 ◼   ► We'll get there, but we need to ship this.

00:32:37 ◼   ► We need to ship a real product here, even though it's not,

00:32:40 ◼   ► 'cause I read this as almost like,

00:32:41 ◼   ► this is not the idealized product that you dream of,

00:32:45 ◼   ► but we need to ship something.

00:32:46 ◼   ► I mean, I don't wanna get into, you know,

00:32:48 ◼   ► real artists ship Steve Jobs-isms here,

00:32:50 ◼   ► but at some point somebody has to decide,

00:32:53 ◼   ► is this a product or not?

00:32:54 ◼   ► And this sounds, this one little passage is so weird

00:32:59 ◼   ► because it's basically the industrial design team

00:33:02 ◼   ► didn't think they should do a VR product.

00:33:04 ◼   ► just said, "We don't think you should do it.

00:33:07 ◼   ► We think you should wait for the ideal product,

00:33:09 ◼   ► which isn't gonna happen for another five years."

00:33:12 ◼   ► And that is so weird.

00:33:14 ◼   ► And I ranted about this when I ranted about that book,

00:33:19 ◼   ► Trip Mickel's book, a little bit,

00:33:21 ◼   ► that I appreciate the veneration

00:33:23 ◼   ► that a lot of people feel for Apple's design team

00:33:26 ◼   ► and for Apple's design-centric culture.

00:33:29 ◼   ► I've been following it forever, right?

00:33:32 ◼   ► Like, I get it.

00:33:33 ◼   ► But, you know, they also can get way too precious.

00:33:38 ◼   ► And you gotta be able to say, you gotta say,

00:33:42 ◼   ► "No, they don't run the company."

00:33:44 ◼   ► And they shouldn't run the company.

00:33:45 ◼   ► And I actually would say, this is the perfect example

00:33:49 ◼   ► of why whatever the design team says is right,

00:33:53 ◼   ► is the wrong philosophy for any functional company.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Because the design team here seems to have,

00:34:01 ◼   ► is living in an idealized space where it's like,

00:34:06 ◼   ► we don't need to ship a product for years.

00:34:09 ◼   ► We've been working on it.

00:34:10 ◼   ► We've been spending a lot of money.

00:34:11 ◼   ► We've got something that is a little bit clunky,

00:34:13 ◼   ► like first-generation products often are.

00:34:16 ◼   ► Why don't we just not ship it

00:34:18 ◼   ► and continue to sit here in our space iterating

00:34:22 ◼   ► and having you guys continue to work on new technology

00:34:25 ◼   ► and spend more money and then call us in four or five years

00:34:29 ◼   ► when you've got something that meets our standards.

00:34:32 ◼   ► It's totally ridiculous.

00:34:34 ◼   ► So if this report is correct, it's like,

00:34:37 ◼   ► and the way I've seen it passed around, it's like,

00:34:39 ◼   ► "Oh no, they overrode the designers.

00:34:42 ◼   ► What a disaster."

00:34:42 ◼   ► And it's like, how could you, it would be,

00:34:44 ◼   ► I mean, it would be malpractice

00:34:46 ◼   ► if you didn't override the designers

00:34:47 ◼   ► when they just try to tell you,

00:34:48 ◼   ► "Yeah, that product you've been working on,

00:34:50 ◼   ► we don't like it.

00:34:51 ◼   ► You should just not ship it

00:34:52 ◼   ► and wait years until you invent something better."

00:34:56 ◼   ► It's unbelievable.

00:34:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, we are in complete agreement on this one.

00:34:59 ◼   ► Like, I think this is the right move.

00:35:01 ◼   ► We haven't seen the product, right?

00:35:02 ◼   ► But,

00:35:03 ◼   ► if the, you know, it's all in the marketing, right?

00:35:06 ◼   ► But you've got to do something at some point.

00:35:08 ◼   ► You can't just keep developing a product forever.

00:35:11 ◼   ► - You're never gonna get to the great product

00:35:13 ◼   ► if you never ship a product, right?

00:35:16 ◼   ► Please show me, please show me the product

00:35:19 ◼   ► that benefited from being delayed five years

00:35:22 ◼   ► and then when it came out, it was perfect.

00:35:24 ◼   ► Like, that's not how it works.

00:35:26 ◼   ► You've gotta ship and you've gotta get it out there.

00:35:29 ◼   ► Like they need to get it out there

00:35:30 ◼   ► so that the software can be picked apart, right?

00:35:33 ◼   ► Like, and that first, the first version of this thing,

00:35:36 ◼   ► it's probably gonna have buggy software.

00:35:37 ◼   ► It's gonna have lots of weird limitations.

00:35:38 ◼   ► And you know what?

00:35:39 ◼   ► That's part of the process.

00:35:40 ◼   ► Part of the process is saying, this doesn't work right.

00:35:42 ◼   ► And they're like, oh wow, we didn't think of that.

00:35:44 ◼   ► And then fixing it.

00:35:45 ◼   ► And people really hate this thing about the product.

00:35:47 ◼   ► Oh, we learned a lesson there.

00:35:49 ◼   ► We'll make it better.

00:35:50 ◼   ► But you gotta get it out there.

00:35:51 ◼   ► This is not the same thing as designers saying

00:35:54 ◼   ► there are fundamental flaws in the headset,

00:35:57 ◼   ► in the VR mixed reality headset that need to be addressed.

00:36:01 ◼   ► And I'll point out that it has been delayed a while.

00:36:04 ◼   ► It's perhaps those things also went on,

00:36:07 ◼   ► but it's one thing to say,

00:36:09 ◼   ► we need to fix things before this product ships.

00:36:11 ◼   ► And another thing to say, don't ship this product,

00:36:14 ◼   ► wait for it to achieve its final form

00:36:17 ◼   ► because the final form doesn't get achieved

00:36:20 ◼   ► by not shipping a product.

00:36:21 ◼   ► It just doesn't.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Look, there is obviously the asterisk of it could be atrocious,

00:36:26 ◼   ► but I think we're just assuming that's not the case, right?

00:36:29 ◼   ► Like it might, it probably will be,

00:36:31 ◼   ► I expect good at a bunch of things,

00:36:33 ◼   ► probably not great at any of those things,

00:36:35 ◼   ► but that's a version one.

00:36:38 ◼   ► Like really, this is a, this honestly feels like

00:36:41 ◼   ► we have everything that we know about it currently,

00:36:44 ◼   ► that this is the biggest kind of risk product

00:36:49 ◼   ► that I can remember Apple taking in the sense of like,

00:36:52 ◼   ► is super expensive, they're going super high end

00:36:54 ◼   ► because they just feel that they gotta get started.

00:36:57 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:36:58 ◼   ► - And so I agree with this idea of like at a certain point,

00:37:01 ◼   ► you gotta draw a line in the sand and be like,

00:37:03 ◼   ► - Gotta ship it. - As you say,

00:37:04 ◼   ► you need to ship it and see how people react

00:37:06 ◼   ► and then move on from there, which I would argue

00:37:09 ◼   ► is probably what happened with the Apple Watch, right?

00:37:12 ◼   ► - Yes. - Because they shipped

00:37:14 ◼   ► a product that is, aside from industrial design,

00:37:20 ◼   ► completely different in idea and scope now to then.

00:37:23 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.

00:37:25 ◼   ► - And so I figured they'd go to stock.

00:37:26 ◼   ► - And they had to get it out there.

00:37:27 ◼   ► They had to get it out there, they had to iterate.

00:37:29 ◼   ► They had to get the feedback about,

00:37:32 ◼   ► they shipped that where the apps are running on the phone

00:37:34 ◼   ► and all that, and they knew that that was not gonna be

00:37:37 ◼   ► there in the long run, and they could've waited

00:37:40 ◼   ► another year, I suppose, but again,

00:37:41 ◼   ► you're just waiting to get started.

00:37:43 ◼   ► You should probably just get started.

00:37:46 ◼   ► And I'm not advocating for shipping a product that is,

00:37:48 ◼   ► There is a bar, right?

00:37:50 ◼   ► There is a bar to clear of like, is this a viable product?

00:37:52 ◼   ► Is this a product that is worth getting out the door

00:37:55 ◼   ► and having the public see it?

00:37:57 ◼   ► But that's not the, the bar can't be set at perfect

00:38:00 ◼   ► or at a different product.

00:38:01 ◼   ► - 'Cause this doesn't even seem like an issue

00:38:05 ◼   ► with Apple's product specifically,

00:38:07 ◼   ► but in the idea that a mixed reality headset

00:38:11 ◼   ► is inherently the wrong direction,

00:38:12 ◼   ► which I don't agree with fundamentally.

00:38:15 ◼   ► These headsets can be really great when done well,

00:38:19 ◼   ► but it seems like that there are at least some people inside

00:38:21 ◼   ► and again, as we always say, you hear about this stuff,

00:38:24 ◼   ► you've heard about it from the people

00:38:25 ◼   ► that are the most angry, right?

00:38:27 ◼   ► - Consider the source. - Consider the source.

00:38:29 ◼   ► - Financial Times specifically says,

00:38:31 ◼   ► former Apple engineers who worked on the device.

00:38:34 ◼   ► So these are people who left Apple and are like,

00:38:37 ◼   ► so first off, how recent is their knowledge of this?

00:38:40 ◼   ► But they're like, oh, they wanted to do this,

00:38:42 ◼   ► but like, it feels very much

00:38:45 ◼   ► Like what they're saying is,

00:38:46 ◼   ► I never liked the idea of mixed reality.

00:38:48 ◼   ► I'm in love with the dream of those lightweight glasses

00:38:52 ◼   ► that again, lightweight AR glasses.

00:38:54 ◼   ► I just wanna be clear here.

00:38:57 ◼   ► The technology to make them doesn't exist, right?

00:39:01 ◼   ► Like the reason Apple isn't making them today

00:39:03 ◼   ► instead of this headset that's gonna come out

00:39:05 ◼   ► in the next few months,

00:39:06 ◼   ► which is mind boggling when you think about that,

00:39:09 ◼   ► that we're very close to that.

00:39:10 ◼   ► The reason is it doesn't exist yet.

00:39:12 ◼   ► Like it needs to be invented.

00:39:15 ◼   ► It is not ready to do a lightweight pair of glasses

00:39:18 ◼   ► that actually do proper AR.

00:39:20 ◼   ► Like they can't do it.

00:39:21 ◼   ► And so you've got to, that's why I'm saying

00:39:25 ◼   ► you've got to ship and you've got to iterate

00:39:26 ◼   ► and you've got to build the next thing.

00:39:27 ◼   ► You can't just sort of wait around for the,

00:39:30 ◼   ► we're pretty sure this is the future,

00:39:31 ◼   ► but it hasn't been invented yet.

00:39:33 ◼   ► So we're going to wait around until we invent it

00:39:35 ◼   ► and then we'll ship it, is not a viable solution.

00:39:37 ◼   ► But it sounds like that's what's happening

00:39:39 ◼   ► by a bunch of former engineers who had worked on the device

00:39:42 ◼   ► and probably fought their battles

00:39:43 ◼   ► and maybe fought some battles about the existing headset

00:39:46 ◼   ► and are frustrated about it.

00:39:48 ◼   ► But the ideal headset, those glasses, those are perfect,

00:39:53 ◼   ► because they are just an ideal and don't really exist.

00:39:57 ◼   ► So yeah, consider the sources here.

00:40:00 ◼   ► This story doesn't suggest whether the product

00:40:03 ◼   ► that's gonna come out this year is good or bad.

00:40:07 ◼   ► It is being read that way,

00:40:10 ◼   ► but that's not how I read this at all.

00:40:12 ◼   ► I read this as being like designers didn't wanna ship it

00:40:16 ◼   ► because they prefer the elegance

00:40:18 ◼   ► of a product that doesn't exist.

00:40:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, and like something that Kate mentioned

00:40:23 ◼   ► in the live chat is like about what the expectations

00:40:27 ◼   ► and reality of the product is.

00:40:28 ◼   ► And it may have been that when this project

00:40:30 ◼   ► was first started, the idea was,

00:40:33 ◼   ► let's try and make some AR glasses.

00:40:35 ◼   ► But then along the way, realize, as you mentioned,

00:40:37 ◼   ► oh, it's not physically possible to do that right now.

00:40:39 ◼   ► - We can't do that.

00:40:40 ◼   ► Yeah, we can't do that.

00:40:41 ◼   ► you started in that place, maybe you had these grand ideas of what it would be, but you've

00:40:46 ◼   ► had to make a concession along the route. And I continue to maintain without ever seeing

00:40:52 ◼   ► this product, this is the right move to go down, because you've got to start somewhere

00:40:58 ◼   ► and it's best to just get it going and see what people say and see what people like,

00:41:02 ◼   ► see what people don't like. There is a 100% a world in which even when AR glasses exist,

00:41:09 ◼   ► I actually believe this is the case.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Even when AR glasses exist, there will still be a desire and use case for a mixed reality

00:41:17 ◼   ► product.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Because AR glasses will never be able to isolate you from an environment and that is still

00:41:23 ◼   ► an interesting thing to do for gaming and even for just immersion.

00:41:28 ◼   ► And so I can still imagine Apple continuing to make some version of a mixed reality headset

00:41:34 ◼   ► even once they've developed the technology for AR glasses.

00:41:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, you could maybe make AR glasses

00:41:41 ◼   ► that also have a VR mode, but at that point,

00:41:43 ◼   ► it's a little bit like you're spending a lot of money

00:41:46 ◼   ► to make very expensive things that are light

00:41:48 ◼   ► and pass through and then covering them up.

00:41:51 ◼   ► - You would need to like have these attachments, right?

00:41:53 ◼   ► Like it would be very- - Right, it's like flip down

00:41:56 ◼   ► VR mode or something, and so you might just continue

00:41:58 ◼   ► to have that separate product.

00:42:00 ◼   ► I will recommend to everybody on Connected,

00:42:04 ◼   ► was it last week? - Last week, yeah.

00:42:05 ◼   ► - Federico, so Mike and I have been using VR

00:42:09 ◼   ► for a while now.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Federico is sort of new to it.

00:42:12 ◼   ► And he's going through a phase of his life

00:42:16 ◼   ► where he's trying new things, which is great.

00:42:18 ◼   ► And he got the old time VR religion last week on connected.

00:42:23 ◼   ► Like to the point where he's like, I wanna work in VR.

00:42:28 ◼   ► I don't even need a display anymore.

00:42:29 ◼   ► I can just use a VR display on my Mac

00:42:32 ◼   ► and things like that, right?

00:42:33 ◼   ► Which is pretty wild.

00:42:35 ◼   ► But I think that there's some, there potentially is some truth to that.

00:42:38 ◼   ► And so I'll recommend that because I think his enthusiasm is fun, but also

00:42:43 ◼   ► because I think he details pretty well.

00:42:46 ◼   ► All the different possibilities for this and why it's exciting

00:42:50 ◼   ► that Apple's doing this.

00:42:51 ◼   ► And I think you can believe that this is an interesting category that is going to

00:42:56 ◼   ► push things in a lot of interesting ways and that Apple, because it's invested so

00:43:01 ◼   ► much time and money, Apple is trying to have the experience be the best one we've ever seen. You

00:43:09 ◼   ► can believe that and also believe that it will be very expensive and not do as much as it should,

00:43:15 ◼   ► and be frustrating in a bunch of areas. Because I think that in the end, that's kind of what you're

00:43:19 ◼   ► going for, right? You're kind of going for a first generation product that shows off how amazing

00:43:25 ◼   ► this technology can be while also recognizing the fact

00:43:30 ◼   ► that it is version one and that there's a lot of learning

00:43:33 ◼   ► to do before we get to the point where people feel better

00:43:38 ◼   ► about this and that it feels better as a product.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Both of those things can be true and I think

00:43:45 ◼   ► if you do it right, that's your best case scenario.

00:43:48 ◼   ► I think there's no scenario where Apple releases something

00:43:50 ◼   ► and everybody goes, "Oh, they figured it out, it's fine.

00:43:52 ◼   ► "This is what it would be like from now on."

00:43:54 ◼   ► I just don't think that'll happen, right?

00:43:55 ◼   ► It's a first version of the operating system

00:43:58 ◼   ► and the app platform and all of those things.

00:44:00 ◼   ► It's not gonna be done.

00:44:02 ◼   ► It's gonna be a start.

00:44:04 ◼   ► But if they can nail the other part,

00:44:06 ◼   ► which is everybody sees the potential,

00:44:08 ◼   ► that's what you build on.

00:44:10 ◼   ► - This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Capital One.

00:44:15 ◼   ► At Capital One, technology makes direct deposits available

00:44:18 ◼   ► up to two days sooner,

00:44:19 ◼   ► improves fraud defense of machine learning,

00:44:22 ◼   ► and helps businesses manage data challenges in the cloud

00:44:25 ◼   ► with Slingshot, the first solution from Capital One software.

00:44:29 ◼   ► Search technology at Capital One to learn more.

00:44:32 ◼   ► Our thanks to Capital One for their support of this show

00:44:35 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

00:44:36 ◼   ► Capital One, what's in your wallet?

00:44:38 ◼   ► So we're gonna talk about yellow iPhone now.

00:44:42 ◼   ► - Oh boy.

00:44:43 ◼   ► - Upgrading Adams suggested that this segment

00:44:46 ◼   ► should be called color grade.

00:44:48 ◼   ► - Uh huh.

00:44:49 ◼   ► - Which.

00:44:50 ◼   ► - It's clever.

00:44:51 ◼   ► - I love.

00:44:52 ◼   ► So that's what we'll call it, color grade.

00:44:54 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:44:56 ◼   ► - There's a yellow iPhone.

00:44:57 ◼   ► - It's true, boy is there.

00:45:00 ◼   ► I have it right here.

00:45:01 ◼   ► - A great job of making something not exciting,

00:45:06 ◼   ► like interesting by producing a live stream,

00:45:10 ◼   ► wearing yellow with lots of yellow things,

00:45:12 ◼   ► like bravo to you on that one.

00:45:14 ◼   ► - Yellow, I had that moment where I thought,

00:45:16 ◼   ► boy, if only I had a banana and a lemon,

00:45:18 ◼   ► we could really go to town.

00:45:20 ◼   ► I laughed and laughed and then I thought,

00:45:22 ◼   ► I should probably do that.

00:45:24 ◼   ► I didn't have a banana or a lemon,

00:45:25 ◼   ► but I did have a can of tennis balls and a play date

00:45:30 ◼   ► and a barrel of monkeys in yellow.

00:45:33 ◼   ► And so, you know, we made, and a yellow T-shirt,

00:45:36 ◼   ► a hypercritical T-shirt and a yellow cow hat.

00:45:38 ◼   ► And so we made it work.

00:45:39 ◼   ► We did a dumb, I did a dumb thing for 10 minutes where I,

00:45:43 ◼   ► and then people are like,

00:45:44 ◼   ► you should compare it to the play date.

00:45:44 ◼   ► And I had to go, I literally like got up and left

00:45:47 ◼   ► and ran to the back of the house and got the play date

00:45:49 ◼   ► and ran back and put it.

00:45:50 ◼   ► It's just a very dramatic moment.

00:45:52 ◼   ► Anyway, yes, there is a yellow iPhone.

00:45:54 ◼   ► It is a yellow iPhone.

00:45:58 ◼   ► Like, you know, I mean, we talked about it.

00:46:01 ◼   ► They obviously see value in refreshing,

00:46:05 ◼   ► in adding a color and refreshing their marketing,

00:46:08 ◼   ► which I think is a big part of it.

00:46:10 ◼   ► And getting another opportunity

00:46:12 ◼   ► to talk about the iPhone midstream

00:46:14 ◼   ► when it's been a while since we've talked about the iPhone.

00:46:17 ◼   ► I think that, and since they've marketed the iPhone

00:46:20 ◼   ► and engage with people about like something new

00:46:22 ◼   ► about the iPhone 'cause it sits there for six months.

00:46:25 ◼   ► So, and then they refresh it a little bit

00:46:27 ◼   ► and then that has to keep it going.

00:46:30 ◼   ► So it's the smallest of updates,

00:46:32 ◼   ► but like they keep doing it

00:46:34 ◼   ► as the spring update every year.

00:46:36 ◼   ► So obviously they find value in doing it this way.

00:46:39 ◼   ► And when I asked them sort of like the big question,

00:46:41 ◼   ► which is, well, you know, why not just do all the,

00:46:44 ◼   ► why do it now?

00:46:47 ◼   ► Why not do it earlier?

00:46:47 ◼   ► And their answer is something like,

00:46:49 ◼   ► well, you know, now our line is complete.

00:46:51 ◼   ► It's like a non-answer, right?

00:46:52 ◼   ► 'Cause the answer is-- - Does that even mean

00:46:54 ◼   ► like there has been a long delay on the yellow one?

00:46:57 ◼   ► - It was missing a color and now the color is there.

00:47:00 ◼   ► And it's like, okay, but you could have done the,

00:47:01 ◼   ► just nevermind, okay, fine.

00:47:03 ◼   ► It's like, can we all know the reason?

00:47:04 ◼   ► - Jason, you don't understand the order of nature.

00:47:06 ◼   ► Yellow phones take longer to make.

00:47:08 ◼   ► Everyone knows this.

00:47:10 ◼   ► - Everybody knows it.

00:47:11 ◼   ► So anyway, here they are, and they got us talking about it.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Literally, there's nothing new about it

00:47:16 ◼   ► except that the iPhone is in a yellow color

00:47:21 ◼   ► and there are some new, it's their traditional thing, right?

00:47:24 ◼   ► There are some new case colors

00:47:25 ◼   ► and there are some new watch band colors

00:47:27 ◼   ► and that's where we are, yeah.

00:47:30 ◼   ► - I will say it again, just 'cause I have to say it,

00:47:31 ◼   ► like I'm legally contracted to say it,

00:47:33 ◼   ► why can't we get a pro phone in any of these colors?

00:47:38 ◼   ► I would love a yellow iPhone pro,

00:47:41 ◼   ► like just, but that color though, right?

00:47:43 ◼   ► Like that color.

00:47:44 ◼   ► I don't want like, mid-blue or like, yeah.

00:47:48 ◼   ► - Midnight lemon is what it would be, right?

00:47:49 ◼   ► It would be like gold, except not nice, right?

00:47:53 ◼   ► It would be just like--

00:47:54 ◼   ► - Muddy gold.

00:47:55 ◼   ► - Dark muddy gold, right?

00:47:57 ◼   ► And it's just, the truth, here's the truth.

00:48:00 ◼   ► The truth is, back when they did the design decisions

00:48:03 ◼   ► for these phones, so the, what, the 12?

00:48:06 ◼   ► They decided that the Pro phones would have the frosted

00:48:12 ◼   ► frosted glass back and that the camera bump would be matte or would be shiny.

00:48:20 ◼   ► And they decided that the inverse would be true for the low-end model. And as a result of that

00:48:26 ◼   ► decision, you can't really make bright colors with that glass the way it is. You could, I mean,

00:48:32 ◼   ► it would be okay, but I think the truth is that it wouldn't look very good. And therefore,

00:48:37 ◼   ► where they're kind of, I mean, that decision has meant

00:48:40 ◼   ► that the iPhone Pro has been really boring

00:48:43 ◼   ► and sedate the whole time.

00:48:44 ◼   ► And I think this whole generation,

00:48:46 ◼   ► the low-end model looks better, like the whole generation.

00:48:48 ◼   ► So I hope they address it when they redesign the iPhones,

00:48:52 ◼   ► because I hate it.

00:48:54 ◼   ► Again, when we talk about this, this color stuff,

00:48:58 ◼   ► we're not saying you shouldn't be able

00:49:00 ◼   ► to buy a sedate phone, right?

00:49:02 ◼   ► It's just like when we were talking about the iMacs,

00:49:03 ◼   ► like they make silver, right?

00:49:05 ◼   ► Like you can have your sedate, we say boring,

00:49:10 ◼   ► but like you can have like something that's neutral

00:49:13 ◼   ► that doesn't call attention to it

00:49:15 ◼   ► because for whatever reason you prefer that, that's fine.

00:49:18 ◼   ► But some of us would prefer a little color

00:49:21 ◼   ► and Apple is not willing to do that on pro devices

00:49:26 ◼   ► and I don't understand it.

00:49:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, you can buy just like a black regular iPhone

00:49:31 ◼   ► and a white one, right?

00:49:32 ◼   ► Like, so even though they have the colors

00:49:34 ◼   ► in the regular ones, you can still just buy standard, right?

00:49:39 ◼   ► And then you get red, a blue that I don't really like.

00:49:42 ◼   ► - That's the iPhone I have right here.

00:49:45 ◼   ► It's black, basically.

00:49:47 ◼   ► It's like the very dark gray back

00:49:49 ◼   ► with the black camera bump.

00:49:50 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:49:52 ◼   ► - But anyway, yellow iPhone.

00:49:54 ◼   ► - Yellow.

00:49:55 ◼   ► - Apple Music classical.

00:49:57 ◼   ► Let me give you a bit of history

00:50:00 ◼   ► those that are not deep in the classical law. In 2021, Apple bought a company called Primephonic

00:50:08 ◼   ► and this was their thing. I think they were a classic music streaming service. And with this,

00:50:13 ◼   ► when they announced it, promised a new Apple Music classical app by the end of the year 2022.

00:50:22 ◼   ► So it wasn't going to be an integration into Apple Music. It was going to be like a brand new

00:50:27 ◼   ► app by the end of 2022. Apple has now announced a pre-order in the app store for the Apple

00:50:37 ◼   ► Music classical app which will be launching on March 28th.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Some details about Apple Music classical, a lot of these came from a post on MacRumors

00:50:52 ◼   ► with information that I'm not sure how they got unless someone at Apple told them this

00:50:55 ◼   ► information which is good right because there was no press release so like information about

00:51:00 ◼   ► this application hard to get it is going to be available no extra cost to Apple music

00:51:05 ◼   ► subscribers it will support spatial audio with Dolby Atmos and high res lossless which

00:51:10 ◼   ► makes sense I think the high res lossless makes the most sense visually it looks like

00:51:15 ◼   ► Apple music but they're using the serif New York typeface rather than the San Francisco

00:51:20 ◼   ► Typeface, which I find very funny. It is going to benefit from complete and accurate metadata

00:51:26 ◼   ► to make sure you know exactly what and who you are playing. Learn while you listen. With

00:51:36 ◼   ► thousands of composer biographies, descriptions of key works, and more, the app will offer

00:51:41 ◼   ► over 5 million tracks, hundreds of curated playlists, and thousands of exclusive albums.

00:51:47 ◼   ► as commissioned unique artwork of famous artists for Apple Music Classical using color palettes

00:51:53 ◼   ► and artistic references from their relevant classical period. The uh-

00:51:56 ◼   ► [Music]

00:51:57 ◼   ► Yup, just like that one. That's- that- when you open the app it just plays that constantly.

00:52:05 ◼   ► No matter what happens.

00:52:06 ◼   ► The classical music fans out here are like, "Oh yeah, Bay tokens fifth and Ode to Joy,

00:52:11 ◼   ► the two most obvious classical music selections."

00:52:14 ◼   ► I'm just like, "Ugh, such a normie."

00:52:15 ◼   ► - Sorry, I'm riffing here, okay?

00:52:17 ◼   ► - Such a normie.

00:52:18 ◼   ► What I really like is that in the Apple Music classical

00:52:21 ◼   ► App Store page, they have one of these images of Beethoven,

00:52:24 ◼   ► where he does not look happy to be inside

00:52:27 ◼   ► of Apple Music classical.

00:52:28 ◼   ► - That's Beethoven.

00:52:29 ◼   ► - He looks real mad.

00:52:30 ◼   ► He's real mad about being locked inside of this application

00:52:33 ◼   ► and he doesn't want anything to do with it.

00:52:35 ◼   ► And he's not happy about it at all.

00:52:38 ◼   ► So this is really interesting.

00:52:40 ◼   ► - Cheer up, Beethoven.

00:52:43 ◼   ► - This app is interesting for me,

00:52:46 ◼   ► not because of what it is,

00:52:48 ◼   ► it's more like what it's not doing.

00:52:49 ◼   ► So like it will not have a Mac app,

00:52:51 ◼   ► it will not have an iPad app, it will have an Android app.

00:52:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, the iPad, so it shows up on my iPad.

00:52:58 ◼   ► So I keep thinking that what's gonna happen

00:52:59 ◼   ► is it's gonna launch and it's gonna have the Mac app

00:53:02 ◼   ► running on the iPad, which is, you know, not so great.

00:53:06 ◼   ► But it does show up.

00:53:07 ◼   ► - But they've set up, I've seen people saying

00:53:10 ◼   ► that they've had confirmation from Apple

00:53:11 ◼   ► that there is no iPad on Mac app.

00:53:14 ◼   ► It is iPhone only.

00:53:16 ◼   ► - That's fine, except it shows up in the app store

00:53:19 ◼   ► on my iPad, which leads me to believe

00:53:21 ◼   ► that I'll be able to run it on my iPad.

00:53:22 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I mean, you run it like an iPhone.

00:53:24 ◼   ► - In iPhone compatibility mode.

00:53:25 ◼   ► But that's so sad, right?

00:53:26 ◼   ► - That's no good. - It's so sad.

00:53:27 ◼   ► Well, okay, so yeah, and no Mac app,

00:53:30 ◼   ► and that's not great.

00:53:33 ◼   ► The positive thing here, and for people who are wondering,

00:53:36 ◼   ► like people who love classical music,

00:53:39 ◼   ► they tend to listen to music in a very different way

00:53:41 ◼   ► than people who like popular music do, right?

00:53:44 ◼   ► Like the pop music, and that's what iTunes

00:53:47 ◼   ► and now Apple Music is based on,

00:53:48 ◼   ► is pop music, singles and things like that.

00:53:51 ◼   ► It's like you get an artist and a song

00:53:52 ◼   ► and it's kind of canonical and that's what it is.

00:53:54 ◼   ► Whereas my understanding is classical music,

00:53:57 ◼   ► you're not saying find me some Beethoven,

00:54:00 ◼   ► sweet, sweet Beethoven Fifth Symphony, let's do it.

00:54:03 ◼   ► You're like, I wanna listen to this performance

00:54:07 ◼   ► by this orchestra, right?

00:54:08 ◼   ► like lots of details about specific performances of works

00:54:12 ◼   ► 'cause the works are performed a lot

00:54:14 ◼   ► and you wanna drill down and get like a particular one.

00:54:17 ◼   ► And pop music, there are cover versions and stuff like that

00:54:21 ◼   ► but basically it's like the version, give me that song.

00:54:26 ◼   ► And so you need to have something like

00:54:30 ◼   ► what Primephonic tried to do,

00:54:31 ◼   ► which is a good classical database

00:54:34 ◼   ► and also a different interface,

00:54:36 ◼   ► which is why it's a different app.

00:54:37 ◼   ► And I know I've heard from people who are like,

00:54:39 ◼   ► why not just make classical experience

00:54:42 ◼   ► inside the Apple Music app better?

00:54:43 ◼   ► And I think the answer is, yes, that would be great.

00:54:47 ◼   ► I suspect that Apple Music's architecture

00:54:51 ◼   ► would have required lots of changes to the Music app.

00:54:54 ◼   ► And they probably had a code base from Primephonic

00:54:56 ◼   ► and they're like, let's just leave music alone.

00:55:00 ◼   ► - I mean, I expect this is just like what happens with Beats.

00:55:03 ◼   ► I expect the team that is working on this is Primephonic,

00:55:06 ◼   ► like the old people that made Prime Formic have been sucked into Apple and they made this.

00:55:09 ◼   ► Like, that's what I expect has happened here.

00:55:12 ◼   ► So, but I just find that like,

00:55:16 ◼   ► not having an iPad app is just weird to me. It's just weird to me. It's like,

00:55:20 ◼   ► I feel like you just should, like they should just be taught, no, like,

00:55:24 ◼   ► because you can, if you, you know, if they have this whole thing of like,

00:55:28 ◼   ► a bunch of information, maybe it would look really nice to read composer biographies and descriptions of key works

00:55:34 ◼   ► on a bigger screen,

00:55:35 ◼   ► like on an iPad, like I just find it, it frustrates me

00:55:39 ◼   ► because it's like, it just looks like they don't care

00:55:42 ◼   ► about it, right?

00:55:43 ◼   ► And it's just like, well, I don't like that.

00:55:46 ◼   ► Like the Mac, fine, whatever, right?

00:55:48 ◼   ► Like they don't wanna make a Mac app, don't make a Mac app.

00:55:52 ◼   ► But like, you know, like whatever, right?

00:55:55 ◼   ► - Right, but you make an iPhone app

00:55:56 ◼   ► and you make it a catalyst app.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Again, that's probably all coming.

00:56:00 ◼   ► That's my guess.

00:56:01 ◼   ► My guess is that part of the product pathway here,

00:56:05 ◼   ► 'cause remember, they missed their deadline already

00:56:07 ◼   ► and now they're shipping this thing, right?

00:56:08 ◼   ► Like the product pathway is probably,

00:56:11 ◼   ► but I don't know if we mentioned it,

00:56:13 ◼   ► Apple Music, if you're an Apple Music subscriber,

00:56:15 ◼   ► you get this, it's not an extra anything.

00:56:17 ◼   ► - Although weirdly, unless you're in China, Japan, Korea,

00:56:20 ◼   ► Russia, Taiwan, Turkey, Afghanistan, or Pakistan.

00:56:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause they're not licensed or whatever there.

00:56:25 ◼   ► So the product pathway probably is that there will be

00:56:28 ◼   ► an update that supports the iPad

00:56:30 ◼   ► and then they will probably have a catalyst version

00:56:32 ◼   ► beyond that that you'll be able to run on the Mac.

00:56:34 ◼   ► - I really hope so. - That's almost certainly

00:56:35 ◼   ► where it's going, but they clearly like couldn't get it done

00:56:39 ◼   ► in order to get it out by the end of March,

00:56:42 ◼   ► which is already three months after their self-imposed

00:56:45 ◼   ► deadline/promise about this.

00:56:48 ◼   ► So I think this is great.

00:56:49 ◼   ► I love, they're like classical music people.

00:56:53 ◼   ► Like we talk about how the App Store is distorted

00:56:56 ◼   ► by the fact that it's based on iTunes,

00:56:57 ◼   ► which means it's based on the single hit single model

00:57:00 ◼   ► and how that is affected so much about what the App Store is

00:57:04 ◼   ► because they took off their own shelf,

00:57:07 ◼   ► they took a music sale engine

00:57:11 ◼   ► and turned it into a software sale engine.

00:57:13 ◼   ► But it's also worth thinking about the fact

00:57:16 ◼   ► that there are kinds of music

00:57:18 ◼   ► that don't fit the pop single model either.

00:57:23 ◼   ► And classical is the best example of that.

00:57:26 ◼   ► I do wonder if there are other,

00:57:27 ◼   ► I was talking to Dan Morin about this.

00:57:29 ◼   ► I wonder if like soundtracks,

00:57:31 ◼   ► other stuff like that, that's not quite classical,

00:57:33 ◼   ► but it's not a great fit necessarily for Apple Music.

00:57:38 ◼   ► If there'll be some of that in here too, I don't know.

00:57:41 ◼   ► I just don't know, but I'm glad that they're doing it.

00:57:45 ◼   ► The technical details are perplexing, right?

00:57:47 ◼   ► This is an Apple, fundamentally,

00:57:48 ◼   ► Apple is launching a new service with an app

00:57:50 ◼   ► that only runs on the iPhone.

00:57:52 ◼   ► And that is wild, right?

00:57:54 ◼   ► Like if you're an iPad user,

00:57:55 ◼   ► if you listen to music on your iPad

00:57:57 ◼   ► and you're like, well, wait a second, what about me?

00:57:59 ◼   ► And the answer is, sorry, not yet, at least.

00:58:03 ◼   ► it will be available. This is an app that I mean, I'll download and look at it,

00:58:07 ◼   ► but like, I don't know what I'm doing in there. You know what I mean? Right.

00:58:09 ◼   ► I'll give it, I'll give it a whirl.

00:58:11 ◼   ► Hopefully there'll be some content in there for, for beginners, right? To say,

00:58:15 ◼   ► like, here's, here's a style to try or here's a thing to try. And it's like for,

00:58:19 ◼   ► for Jason, it'll be like, Beethoven will be there. And it'll be like, Jason,

00:58:23 ◼   ► don't tap on Beethoven.

00:58:24 ◼   ► The only music that you seem to be able to generate that's classical out of your

00:58:28 ◼   ► brain for some reason is Beethoven. Try,

00:58:32 ◼   ► Have you tried Mozart?

00:58:34 ◼   ► You could try that, give that a try too.

00:58:36 ◼   ► I tried to think of a third song

00:58:39 ◼   ► that I could sing now of classical.

00:58:42 ◼   ► And I realized, I was like, oh yeah, I know for Elise,

00:58:46 ◼   ► also Beethoven, also Beethoven, what is it with,

00:58:49 ◼   ► you know, I think I did have a,

00:58:52 ◼   ► when I was, when I took piano lessons as a kid,

00:58:54 ◼   ► they would give you little plastic statues.

00:58:55 ◼   ► They're like Funko pops,

00:58:57 ◼   ► except there were Funko classicals, essentially,

00:59:00 ◼   ► little statues of classical performers or composers and I know I had Chopin but I'm

00:59:07 ◼   ► pretty sure I had a Beethoven where he's scowling because all images of Beethoven he's scowling.

00:59:11 ◼   ► He is a very just a grumpy guy. The Mortal Beloved, interesting movie. Check it out. Gary

00:59:16 ◼   ► Oldman I think is Beethoven in that. Anyway that's also I have exhausted my classical music knowledge

00:59:23 ◼   ► now if you're interested oh yeah I honed namaste toven in German the Beethoven

00:59:28 ◼   ► dog movies you can get those two those are great and of course you can you can

00:59:35 ◼   ► do Amadeus you can watch Amadeus which is a we watch for the incomparable

00:59:39 ◼   ► actually last year and is a legitimately great movie just an amazing movie so

00:59:45 ◼   ► that's all about Mozart folks so what's the connection there I don't I have no

00:59:50 ◼   ► - Amadeus is about Mozart.

00:59:53 ◼   ► - It's about Mozart.

00:59:54 ◼   ► - It's about Mozart.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Well, it's about the guy who's Mozart's rival,

00:59:56 ◼   ► who's very frustrated with how talented Mozart is.

00:59:59 ◼   ► And Mozart's kind of like a rock star.

01:00:00 ◼   ► He's a misbehaving guy.

01:00:02 ◼   ► And the guy who has been putting his entire career,

01:00:05 ◼   ► who's played by F. Murray Abraham,

01:00:06 ◼   ► who won the Oscar for that role.

01:00:07 ◼   ► Like he is so angry at Mozart and hates Mozart

01:00:12 ◼   ► because Mozart's just so effortlessly talented.

01:00:15 ◼   ► And he just is a grinder who has ground his way

01:00:18 ◼   ► to being the court musician for the Austrian empire or whatever.

01:00:24 ◼   ► And sorry for the impromptu summary of Amadeus.

01:00:29 ◼   ► But having watched it, I watched it as like a teenager and I was bored by it,

01:00:32 ◼   ► but as an adult watching Amadeus, it's so good.

01:00:36 ◼   ► So yeah, that can be a double feature. Amadeus and Immortal Beloved.

01:00:39 ◼   ► You'll get your Mozart, you'll get your Beethoven.

01:00:42 ◼   ► And then download your iPhone app, I guess.

01:00:44 ◼   ► And I'm assuming Amadeus, Amadeus, nothing to do with it.

01:00:48 ◼   ► Well, I mean, that's about Mozart.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Yeah, but not the movie.

01:00:53 ◼   ► The Rock Me Amadeus by Falco.

01:00:56 ◼   ► It is, it is, it is. That's the whole idea, right?

01:01:01 ◼   ► Is that, how does that, "È va ein superstar, È va so popular?"

01:01:06 ◼   ► He was, yeah, it's like Wolfgang Mahler was in Mozart, was a

01:01:11 ◼   ► rock star of his time and uh and yes mike you've zeroed in on it rock me

01:01:16 ◼   ► amadeus inspired by the movie rock me amadeus

01:01:20 ◼   ► themes very similar to the themes in the movie

01:01:23 ◼   ► amadeus yeah falco rest in peace talco i'm naturally

01:01:28 ◼   ► assuming up gradients you got what you expected

01:01:31 ◼   ► from this segment right like you weren't expecting

01:01:35 ◼   ► anything more than this do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do

01:01:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's we're really experts in this category.

01:01:45 ◼   ► But I'm very excited for my friends

01:01:47 ◼   ► who are classical music fans,

01:01:48 ◼   ► because suffice it to say modern streaming services

01:01:51 ◼   ► like Apple Music and Spotify, not that great.

01:01:54 ◼   ► Like Apple Music specifically, like not that great

01:01:56 ◼   ► if you're a classical music fan.

01:01:57 ◼   ► iTunes historically has been not that great.

01:02:00 ◼   ► Macworld, Kirk McElhern wrote,

01:02:03 ◼   ► I don't wanna say, it wasn't dozens,

01:02:06 ◼   ► but many articles about how to try

01:02:08 ◼   ► to tame your iTunes library for classical use because it was such a mess.

01:02:13 ◼   ► So this has been the case for a long time so I'm very excited for

01:02:18 ◼   ► classical music fans who are using Apple's music ecosystem that they're

01:02:22 ◼   ► finally gonna get something that will hopefully serve them well. So that part

01:02:26 ◼   ► that that part's great and and yeah go see Amadeus it's great.

01:02:29 ◼   ► 2nd of August 2016. Got an article here from Kirk McElhone I think on his own

01:02:36 ◼   ► on the website, Apple is finally making iTunes better

01:02:39 ◼   ► for classical music.

01:02:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, they progress.

01:02:43 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to what Kirk has to say about it

01:02:44 ◼   ► 'cause Kirk is a bit of a grumpy guy actually.

01:02:47 ◼   ► - This is your time, Kirk.

01:02:48 ◼   ► - But he cares, so rise to the occasion, Kirk McElhern.

01:02:50 ◼   ► Do it, I mean, this is, I can't wait to see what he says

01:02:53 ◼   ► about this app when it launches at the end of the month

01:02:55 ◼   ► because he'll be a, he's the perfect audience

01:03:00 ◼   ► for this kind of thing.

01:03:01 ◼   ► - Rock me, McElhern.

01:03:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:03:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:03:06 ◼   ► - If you enjoy this show and want more of it,

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01:03:44 ◼   ► Sometimes it's challenges.

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01:03:47 ◼   ► We're doing that in the next couple of weeks.

01:03:49 ◼   ► Today, I think we're gonna talk a little bit about

01:03:52 ◼   ► video previews as a thing for the show

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01:04:09 ◼   ► It's time for some Ask Upgrade questions.

01:04:16 ◼   ► Grant wrote in and says "My 2017 10.5" iPad Pro has broken.

01:04:24 ◼   ► I bought it at launch for £620.

01:04:27 ◼   ► What iPad would you suggest to replace it now?

01:04:30 ◼   ► The current iPad Pro is significantly more expensive, but the iPad and iPad Air lose

01:04:36 ◼   ► features like ProMotion.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Well, Grant, only you can decide, but my suggestion is the iPad Air, which I know is not quite

01:04:50 ◼   ► as fully featured as the current iPad Pro, but you've got a 2017 iPad Pro, so it's back

01:04:56 ◼   ► a little bit.

01:04:57 ◼   ► - You got like a home button on that thing.

01:04:59 ◼   ► - Is that right?

01:05:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it is.

01:05:02 ◼   ► - It is right.

01:05:03 ◼   ► - And does he have promotion or not?

01:05:06 ◼   ► - Yes, it does.

01:05:07 ◼   ► - It does have promotion on it.

01:05:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I believe that device was the first iPad

01:05:13 ◼   ► to get promotion.

01:05:13 ◼   ► - To have promotion, yeah.

01:05:15 ◼   ► So I would probably say unless the promotion thing

01:05:18 ◼   ► is gonna kill you, like get the iPad Air.

01:05:21 ◼   ► It's a good deal.

01:05:23 ◼   ► It is basically like an iPad Pro in so many different ways

01:05:28 ◼   ► and yet is cheaper.

01:05:30 ◼   ► And so I would say that's probably what you should do.

01:05:35 ◼   ► If you could get a deal on a iPad Pro,

01:05:40 ◼   ► then you could go that way.

01:05:42 ◼   ► But I feel like the iPad,

01:05:44 ◼   ► and also there's rumors that next year

01:05:47 ◼   ► the iPad Pro is gonna get redesigned, right?

01:05:49 ◼   ► So you'd be getting the last of the existing iPad Pros.

01:05:53 ◼   ► You could do it, again, if you can find a deal or a refurb

01:05:56 ◼   ► or something like that, but the iPad Air,

01:05:57 ◼   ► I think is the best buy just sort of in general,

01:05:59 ◼   ► if you can stand to lose some of those

01:06:02 ◼   ► very specific iPad Pro features,

01:06:04 ◼   ► 'cause you'll save some money.

01:06:05 ◼   ► - I realize now that there was a story

01:06:07 ◼   ► that I should have included in "Rouba Roundup,"

01:06:09 ◼   ► which is about these OLED iPad Pros.

01:06:12 ◼   ► We'll talk about that next week.

01:06:15 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:06:15 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I'm glad we didn't break that seal,

01:06:17 ◼   ► 'cause there's a whole thing that spins off of those

01:06:19 ◼   ► about what is Apple doing with the iPad Pro.

01:06:22 ◼   ► So we'll save that for next time.

01:06:23 ◼   ► We'll save that for next time.

01:06:24 ◼   ► What I will say is, if you can get a good deal, right,

01:06:29 ◼   ► on a third gen 11 inch or something,

01:06:34 ◼   ► then you should maybe look at that.

01:06:36 ◼   ► But realistically, I would say to go to the iPad Air,

01:06:39 ◼   ► it's a great device.

01:06:40 ◼   ► You'll lose, I think only like two features.

01:06:42 ◼   ► You get stereo speakers rather than the,

01:06:46 ◼   ► like two speakers rather than the four speakers,

01:06:49 ◼   ► like I said, we're all on stereo, and it's ProMotion.

01:06:51 ◼   ► but that iPad is great.

01:06:53 ◼   ► You still got touch ID.

01:06:55 ◼   ► I would recommend that one, I think,

01:06:57 ◼   ► if out of that line right now.

01:06:58 ◼   ► It's actually the pick I make to anybody now.

01:07:00 ◼   ► Like I think that iPad Air is kind of just like

01:07:03 ◼   ► the best iPad for most people.

01:07:04 ◼   ► The iPad Pro in its current iteration in the 11 inch,

01:07:08 ◼   ► that's not worth it.

01:07:10 ◼   ► Caleb asks, "How are those play dates doing?"

01:07:14 ◼   ► - Great.

01:07:16 ◼   ► I took mine to New Zealand and played it a little bit

01:07:17 ◼   ► on the Inter Island Ferry.

01:07:21 ◼   ► and some other places.

01:07:23 ◼   ► And there's still some games that I really like on it.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Now there's a bunch of new games that have come out

01:07:29 ◼   ► as a part of the launch of the new,

01:07:32 ◼   ► basically app store for Playdate.

01:07:34 ◼   ► You can still sideload things.

01:07:35 ◼   ► It's not like an Apple app store,

01:07:36 ◼   ► but they have this new app called Catalog.

01:07:38 ◼   ► It has a couple of free games

01:07:39 ◼   ► and then a whole bunch of games you can buy.

01:07:41 ◼   ► And you know, it's great.

01:07:44 ◼   ► I don't play it.

01:07:45 ◼   ► Like I've said before,

01:07:46 ◼   ► I don't play it as much as I thought I would,

01:07:48 ◼   ► mostly because of the fact that it's not backlit.

01:07:51 ◼   ► And so I am sometimes in situations

01:07:54 ◼   ► where I think about playing it

01:07:55 ◼   ► and there's not enough light.

01:07:57 ◼   ► And that's too bad that that's the way it is,

01:07:59 ◼   ► but that's the way it is.

01:08:00 ◼   ► And nobody has made a clip on play date light yet.

01:08:04 ◼   ► So this is where I am right now.

01:08:06 ◼   ► But I do love it.

01:08:08 ◼   ► And I love the software is obviously done with great care

01:08:13 ◼   ► and love by people who are, who they just love video games and devices like the playdate.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And so you've got a, you know, nobody, I think nobody is making games for the playdate because

01:08:25 ◼   ► it's a cash grab, right? They're doing it for the love of the genre and that comes through

01:08:29 ◼   ► too.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I've, uh, I haven't touched mine for a bit. Like I've, you know, I played a bunch

01:08:34 ◼   ► of games a bunch. Um, and then I was done with the games that I wanted to play from

01:08:39 ◼   ► the first season. There is one or two that I still haven't checked out that I've been

01:08:42 ◼   ► meaning to but I I've booted up and downloaded the catalog thing and I want

01:08:47 ◼   ► to go in and poke around with some of those games my favorite playdate game

01:08:51 ◼   ► bloom which I've sideloaded is in the catalog it's one of the catalog games

01:08:57 ◼   ► and they've updated it I need to go in and check like what I would like to be

01:09:01 ◼   ► able to do is download this new version and it keeps my save file from my

01:09:06 ◼   ► sideloaded version I really hope that's the case because I don't want to play

01:09:09 ◼   ► through the whole game again to get to the new content but bloom is an

01:09:13 ◼   ► incredible experience of a game it's like a beautiful narrative game with

01:09:19 ◼   ► some kind of like farming kind of ideas it is wonderful I love it and they've

01:09:26 ◼   ► made it as part of their catalog which I'm not surprised about because I think

01:09:28 ◼   ► it's a triumph of a game on that platform but yeah I love to play they

01:09:32 ◼   ► I'm really looking forward to their stereo dock because I just think that'd

01:09:34 ◼   ► be really fun as a thing to buy and I really wish that the Jack Jason they

01:09:38 ◼   ► just make a clip on life of the thing like like we used to get for Gameboys. I think

01:09:42 ◼   ► in a different timeline wherein it was easier for them to have made the play dates because

01:09:47 ◼   ► they're still shipping from the original orders like they're still shipping them which is

01:09:52 ◼   ► incredible it was this wonderful success but also complicated. I reckon they would have

01:09:57 ◼   ► made more accessories like that like the Bluetooth dot they announced when they announced the

01:10:01 ◼   ► thing and they just were like we had to put that thing on hold because we had to actually

01:10:04 ◼   ► make these things. And they have now increased the price. It's going to be, I think, $1.99,

01:10:09 ◼   ► which $1.99 is difficult, right? You're basically a Nintendo Switch now. But it is a wonderful,

01:10:18 ◼   ► unique experience.

01:10:19 ◼   ► - I think it's only $20 different, but yeah, that's right. It's just a different thing.

01:10:23 ◼   ► It's just a different kind of object. And the people it appeals to, it appeals in a

01:10:28 ◼   ► very particular way. And if you want a Nintendo Switch, you know, there's like, I know that

01:10:34 ◼   ► They're both handheld game devices,

01:10:35 ◼   ► but boy, they're not the same at all.

01:10:38 ◼   ► - And of course you get games, right?

01:10:39 ◼   ► Like with the Play Date, that's like 12 games.

01:10:43 ◼   ► Like it is a wonderful thing

01:10:45 ◼   ► that I recommend people check out.

01:10:47 ◼   ► If you like games, I think you'll enjoy it.

01:10:49 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like, especially if you like indie games.

01:10:51 ◼   ► And you can tell the love that goes into the entire thing.

01:10:54 ◼   ► Like it is something that I adore my little Play Date.

01:10:58 ◼   ► I had so much fun with that thing,

01:10:59 ◼   ► but I just haven't tried it.

01:11:01 ◼   ► I haven't picked it up in a while, but I'm going to.

01:11:04 ◼   ► Mitch asks, "Do you think Apple,"

01:11:08 ◼   ► this is the perennial question,

01:11:09 ◼   ► "Will stick with the numbering scheme of the iPhone

01:11:12 ◼   ► all the way up to iPhone 17 and beyond?

01:11:15 ◼   ► I note this because it would be

01:11:16 ◼   ► the first three-syllable iPhone name."

01:11:19 ◼   ► So I wrote down a potential name today,

01:11:22 ◼   ► which is iPhone 17 Pro Max.

01:11:25 ◼   ► - Yeah. - That's a long name.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Like, just many syllables.

01:11:30 ◼   ► - It is.

01:11:31 ◼   ► I don't know how they get off the train at this point.

01:11:35 ◼   ► Right?

01:11:36 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:11:37 ◼   ► - I just, I feel like they're on it now.

01:11:39 ◼   ► I don't know what can be done.

01:11:42 ◼   ► Like as long as they're selling old models,

01:11:47 ◼   ► they can't just call it the iPhone 2023.

01:11:51 ◼   ► Right?

01:11:51 ◼   ► They can't do it.

01:11:52 ◼   ► They have to specify what model it is.

01:11:55 ◼   ► And the Tim Cook strategy of, you know,

01:11:57 ◼   ► we're still selling the iPhone 16

01:12:00 ◼   ► and we're still selling the iPhone 15

01:12:02 ◼   ► and we're still selling the iPhone 4,

01:12:04 ◼   ► that strategy where it takes a long time for it

01:12:06 ◼   ► to kind of coalesce into an SE is going to continue, I think.

01:12:11 ◼   ► And that's the result,

01:12:14 ◼   ► which is they gotta name these things unique names

01:12:16 ◼   ► and the number, it is what it is.

01:12:21 ◼   ► Like I would have preferred them to go to the year

01:12:24 ◼   ► at this point, right?

01:12:25 ◼   ► So that it would be the iPhone 23 comes out in 23.

01:12:29 ◼   ► but they don't seem to want to do that.

01:12:32 ◼   ► - I mean, it's still just an ever increasing number.

01:12:36 ◼   ► It's a different number.

01:12:37 ◼   ► - It's just a different number.

01:12:39 ◼   ► It's absolutely true.

01:12:40 ◼   ► - Couple of points,

01:12:41 ◼   ► Zach points out three GS is three syllables,

01:12:43 ◼   ► yeah, but I think it's different.

01:12:45 ◼   ► And David says, hopefully they'll drop the pro from Pro Max,

01:12:48 ◼   ► but if they do, they'll probably make it ultra,

01:12:50 ◼   ► which is still two syllables,

01:12:51 ◼   ► so we're back to the same problem again.

01:12:52 ◼   ► I think the problem is just like 17 pro,

01:12:56 ◼   ► it's just like so much,

01:12:57 ◼   ► like you just keep going on forever,

01:12:59 ◼   ► 17 Pro Max.

01:13:01 ◼   ► So many, it's just such a big name.

01:13:03 ◼   ► It's just so big, but whatever, you know what I mean?

01:13:07 ◼   ► Like they're just gonna,

01:13:08 ◼   ► what is, as you say, what else are they gonna do?

01:13:10 ◼   ► Should call it iPhone?

01:13:11 ◼   ► - Yeah. - No, they can't do that.

01:13:12 ◼   ► It's too complicated.

01:13:13 ◼   ► I know they do it for other products,

01:13:15 ◼   ► but it's too complicated for the iPhone.

01:13:16 ◼   ► - As long as they're not replacing them every year,

01:13:19 ◼   ► but keeping them around for longer than a year for cheaper,

01:13:22 ◼   ► they can't do that, right?

01:13:23 ◼   ► Like they can't say, this is the iPhone

01:13:25 ◼   ► and that's also the iPhone.

01:13:27 ◼   ► They can't do that. - Yep.

01:13:28 ◼   ► They could, if they discontinued it every year

01:13:31 ◼   ► and replaced it with new models,

01:13:32 ◼   ► they could do what the MacBook Air does, right?

01:13:34 ◼   ► Which is just, it's the MacBook Air.

01:13:36 ◼   ► - Or the iPad, right?

01:13:37 ◼   ► The iPad's the same. - Or the iPad.

01:13:38 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:13:40 ◼   ► But if they keep them around, they can't do that.

01:13:43 ◼   ► And they keep them around,

01:13:44 ◼   ► that's part of the big iPhone strategy.

01:13:46 ◼   ► So, and they're not gonna, I'll put it this way,

01:13:49 ◼   ► they're not gonna change that strategy

01:13:51 ◼   ► just to make the names more satisfying, right?

01:13:54 ◼   ► If they change that strategy for other reasons,

01:13:56 ◼   ► they could say, "Hey, wait a second,

01:13:57 ◼   ► we don't need to do the name thing anymore,

01:13:59 ◼   ► but I just don't see any signs of that happening.

01:14:02 ◼   ► - No, neither do I.

01:14:04 ◼   ► So we're just gonna keep getting those names

01:14:05 ◼   ► longer and longer and longer.

01:14:07 ◼   ► iPhone 264 Pro Max.

01:14:10 ◼   ► - And David Shaw points out, yeah,

01:14:11 ◼   ► it actually is a problem with the MacBook Air

01:14:13 ◼   ► 'cause there's the M1 MacBook Air and the M2 MacBook Air.

01:14:15 ◼   ► That is true.

01:14:16 ◼   ► But there they're using the chip basically

01:14:18 ◼   ► as a differentiator, but it's complicated, right?

01:14:20 ◼   ► 'Cause they've left the old model around.

01:14:22 ◼   ► But you're right, the iPad is a good example.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Even there, the iPad, there's the ninth generation

01:14:25 ◼   ► and the 10th generation, and you see--

01:14:27 ◼   ► - But they don't care about that.

01:14:29 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:14:29 ◼   ► - That's how it bites you though,

01:14:31 ◼   ► is that now we're using parenthetical names

01:14:34 ◼   ► that are confusing.

01:14:36 ◼   ► It's worse than saying iPad 9.

01:14:38 ◼   ► - And we will always do that though.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Like even if, this is the thing,

01:14:43 ◼   ► it's like even if Apple do this though,

01:14:45 ◼   ► we'll still use ways to describe each model year, right?

01:14:49 ◼   ► - Sure, we will.

01:14:50 ◼   ► But there'll be consumer confusion.

01:14:52 ◼   ► - The market--

01:14:53 ◼   ► - 'Cause the consumer will just be like,

01:14:54 ◼   ► iPhone this, iPhone that, right?

01:14:55 ◼   ► Like how do I even do that?

01:14:58 ◼   ► So I just, I feel like they're on this path now

01:15:00 ◼   ► and I have a hard time imagining them changing

01:15:03 ◼   ► as ridiculous it is, you know, to say iPhone 17 or iPhone 23.

01:15:08 ◼   ► That seems to be where we are.

01:15:09 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:15:10 ◼   ► It's weird.

01:15:12 ◼   ► - If you would like to send in an Ask Upgrade question

01:15:14 ◼   ► for us to answer on a future episode of the show,

01:15:17 ◼   ► go to upgradefeedback.com

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01:15:23 ◼   ► Ask Upgrades, whatever you like.

01:15:24 ◼   ► It's also a link in your show notes.

01:15:26 ◼   ► It's right, I think, at the very top,

01:15:28 ◼   ► or one of the top two links in your show notes.

01:15:30 ◼   ► In every episode in your podcast app of choice,

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01:15:35 ◼   ► or follow up for a future episode of the show.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Thank you so much to everybody that does.

01:15:41 ◼   ► Much appreciated.

01:15:42 ◼   ► This was episode 450 of Upgrade.

01:15:47 ◼   ► Until next time, if you would like to check out

01:15:49 ◼   ► Jason's work, go to sickcolors.com.

01:15:51 ◼   ► You can also hear his podcast at the incomparable.com

01:15:54 ◼   ► and

01:16:08 ◼   ► You can send us your feedback and questions at UpgradeFeedback.com.

01:16:11 ◼   ► Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus.

01:16:14 ◼   ► If you would like to sign up, go to GetUpgradePlus.com.

01:16:17 ◼   ► Thank you to Capital One and ExpressVPN for their support of this show.

01:16:21 ◼   ► And most of all, thank you for listening.

01:16:23 ◼   ► Until next time, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:16:26 ◼   ► - Goodbye, everybody.

01:16:27 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:16:30 ◼   ► [ Music ]