ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hey, so John, how's it going?

00:00:02 ◼   ► - I think COVID-19, everyone's favorite disease/germ,

00:00:08 ◼   ► has achieved the ATP hat trick.

00:00:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:12 ◼   ► Knocked off all three hosts.

00:00:15 ◼   ► - Yep, apparently, so the way I think this has happened,

00:00:18 ◼   ► this is the headcanon, is that I received it from Lex

00:00:23 ◼   ► via your daily Lex, he infected me, that he infected me,

00:00:26 ◼   ► and then I have now infected you,

00:00:29 ◼   ► and hopefully I have not taken down the rest of the people

00:00:32 ◼   ► in your house with you. What's the status there?

00:00:34 ◼   ► - So far, so good.

00:00:36 ◼   ► I mean, so I've been having symptoms since Monday.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I was negative on Monday and Tuesday,

00:00:41 ◼   ► and then I was positive on Wednesday.

00:00:43 ◼   ► - Were you taking evasive maneuvers within the house

00:00:46 ◼   ► on Monday or Tuesday, or were you assuming it was a cold?

00:00:48 ◼   ► - No, because here's why.

00:00:49 ◼   ► People are always having colds in the house,

00:00:51 ◼   ► and whenever someone has a cold, we give them COVID tests

00:00:54 ◼   ► and they come up negative and everything's fine.

00:00:55 ◼   ► So I had a cold and I was giving myself COVID tests

00:00:57 ◼   ► like I do anytime I have a cold

00:00:58 ◼   ► and they're coming up negative.

00:01:00 ◼   ► And then on Wednesday morning, it was positive.

00:01:01 ◼   ► And then I immediately retreated to my room

00:01:03 ◼   ► where I have been hiding since then.

00:01:06 ◼   ► - All right, so what have you been doing to kill time then?

00:01:07 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, for the first three days of this,

00:01:12 ◼   ► I just basically had a fever the whole time.

00:01:14 ◼   ► That's sucky.

00:01:15 ◼   ► I know people had it much worse than I have for sure,

00:01:17 ◼   ► but no one likes having a fever though.

00:01:18 ◼   ► I'm used to fevers breaking and this wasn't breaking.

00:01:21 ◼   ► So that was kind of crappy.

00:01:25 ◼   ► It's not the worst cold I've ever had, but it's a pretty crappy cold.

00:01:29 ◼   ► I did get a Paxilovid prescription and I talked to my doctor and she was like, "Well, you

00:01:35 ◼   ► know, if you don't want to take it, you know, because you don't want any weird side effects

00:01:39 ◼   ► or whatever, if you start getting better, that's fine.

00:01:42 ◼   ► But if I can tell you that, you know, the third day of your symptoms is probably not

00:01:45 ◼   ► the peak, it could get worse.

00:01:48 ◼   ► So do what you want to do."

00:01:49 ◼   ► And after my third day of symptoms, it was not getting better.

00:01:52 ◼   ► It was getting worse.

00:01:53 ◼   ► So I started taking it and that's what I'm on now.

00:01:56 ◼   ► - And so today, how are we feeling this evening?

00:01:58 ◼   ► - I mean, I feel like the fever is mostly gone.

00:02:01 ◼   ► So all you got is stuffiness, headaches, body aches.

00:02:04 ◼   ► It's not a terrible cold.

00:02:07 ◼   ► I do credit some of that to the medicine,

00:02:09 ◼   ► but who knows, honestly.

00:02:10 ◼   ► I just started taking it 'cause I was like,

00:02:11 ◼   ► look, if it got better on its own,

00:02:13 ◼   ► I wouldn't have taken it.

00:02:14 ◼   ► But it wasn't getting better on its own.

00:02:15 ◼   ► I knew I had to do a podcast.

00:02:16 ◼   ► So I did record a podcast on Tuesday,

00:02:18 ◼   ► which at the time I'm sure had COVID, right?

00:02:20 ◼   ► Even though I was still testing negative.

00:02:22 ◼   ► And that was kind of miserable and involving a lot of coughing and sweating and feveriness.

00:02:26 ◼   ► And so, you know, it's part of the grand ATP tradition of all of us podcasting when we are

00:02:31 ◼   ► COVID positive.

00:02:31 ◼   ► Indeed. I mean, that is that is the rule, apparently, amongst the three of us.

00:02:35 ◼   ► The show must go on.

00:02:36 ◼   ► And the great thing about podcasting the way we do it is, despite the earlier joking, is not

00:02:41 ◼   ► transmissible to the other co-hosts.

00:02:43 ◼   ► So let's do some follow up.

00:02:46 ◼   ► What was the context for this?

00:02:48 ◼   ► This is about getting your data, a copy of your data from Apple and for the life of me.

00:02:51 ◼   ► I can't remember when this came up.

00:02:52 ◼   ► - There was an Ask ATP about how to export your messages

00:02:54 ◼   ► or something, I don't know, I remember talking about

00:02:57 ◼   ► Google Takeout, which is Google's version of this.

00:02:59 ◼   ► - That's right, so I presume, John,

00:03:01 ◼   ► somebody put this in the show notes, privacy.apple.com,

00:03:03 ◼   ► where you can get a copy of your data.

00:03:05 ◼   ► And a few years ago now, Zach Whitaker at ZDNet,

00:03:10 ◼   ► back in 2018, did exactly this, and it was funny.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Zach went through all the data he received,

00:03:17 ◼   ► and he said it actually wasn't that much,

00:03:19 ◼   ► which in this context is a good thing,

00:03:21 ◼   ► because it means Apple didn't have that much.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Well, if you trust Apple to be telling the truth.

00:03:25 ◼   ► - No, I think they didn't even give him his messages.

00:03:28 ◼   ► The reason the data's important here is that it's 2018,

00:03:30 ◼   ► is this is before GDPR, I think?

00:03:33 ◼   ► - Right, yes, or it was around the time of--

00:03:34 ◼   ► - And so, I mean, if you're wondering why Apple

00:03:37 ◼   ► is improving this feature,

00:03:38 ◼   ► I'm assuming it's for regulatory compliance.

00:03:40 ◼   ► Because what his download contained was like,

00:03:42 ◼   ► well, here's some metadata about your messages,

00:03:43 ◼   ► but not the actual messages.

00:03:45 ◼   ► And of course, Apple does have that data,

00:03:47 ◼   ► even though it's encrypted.

00:03:47 ◼   ► They could give it to you,

00:03:48 ◼   ► and you could decrypt it with your local machine keys,

00:03:51 ◼   ► but they didn't used to do that,

00:03:52 ◼   ► but I think now it has improved.

00:03:53 ◼   ► So, you know, why is Apple now making this feature better?

00:03:58 ◼   ► Probably for regulatory compliance reasons.

00:04:00 ◼   ► - That is true.

00:04:01 ◼   ► I did think the post was interesting though, nevertheless,

00:04:03 ◼   ► and it's worth a quick read if you're interested.

00:04:05 ◼   ► And then also tell me about iMazing, if you please.

00:04:08 ◼   ► - That was a third party application

00:04:10 ◼   ► that a lot of people recommended.

00:04:11 ◼   ► I think I've either bought or at least downloaded

00:04:13 ◼   ► that application multiple times in the past

00:04:16 ◼   ► to try to use it.

00:04:17 ◼   ► from the old days back when you used to both like mount your iPod as a USB disk

00:04:21 ◼   ► and pull things out of it remember that I believe this software has its origins

00:04:25 ◼   ► in that era of devices obviously we're far from that now but still they have a

00:04:28 ◼   ► thing that lets you go onto your phone and pull stuff off somehow and some

00:04:32 ◼   ► people do use that to pull messages I'm amazed that still works yeah yeah I'm

00:04:37 ◼   ► not quite sure how they're doing it maybe they're secretly jailbreaking for

00:04:39 ◼   ► and I have no idea I don't want to pass dispersions on this thing but anyway

00:04:42 ◼   ► people some people swear by it they say this is how I downloaded my messages for

00:04:45 ◼   ► my phone onto my Mac to get a local copy. So if you're looking for a third-party

00:04:48 ◼   ► application that claims to do that, here's one. Rob Howard writes with regard

00:04:54 ◼   ► to, oh yes, the context here is you, I think it was John, was saying, so it was

00:05:00 ◼   ► kind of slagging on Dolby Pro Logic, you know, the original, one of the original

00:05:04 ◼   ► surround sound systems. I didn't, I was saying systems that tried to take a

00:05:07 ◼   ► stereo sound and put it into back channels, but there's lots of different

00:05:10 ◼   ► ways you can do that, and the specific one that Rob is writing about here is

00:05:14 ◼   ► is one of the better ones.

00:05:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I actually, I didn't interrupt you at the time

00:05:18 ◼   ► 'cause that was my understanding as well,

00:05:20 ◼   ► is that the system would just kind of make a best guess

00:05:23 ◼   ► as to what was in the rear channel.

00:05:24 ◼   ► So I obviously didn't know much about this,

00:05:27 ◼   ► or certainly less than I thought I did.

00:05:28 ◼   ► So Rob Howard writes, "Old home surround sound systems

00:05:31 ◼   ► "didn't rely on guesswork.

00:05:32 ◼   ► "Dolby systems encoded the rear channels

00:05:35 ◼   ► "into the stereo channels so they could be decoded later.

00:05:38 ◼   ► "Not as good as discrete channels, of course,

00:05:40 ◼   ► "but calling it guesswork probably sells the work

00:05:42 ◼   ► "of Dolby's engineers a little short."

00:05:44 ◼   ► and this is with regard to Dolby Pro Logic,

00:05:46 ◼   ► and building on that, and we'll link to Wikipedia,

00:05:48 ◼   ► a Dolby Pro Logic decoder or processor unfolds,

00:05:51 ◼   ► quote unquote, the soundtrack back into its original

00:05:54 ◼   ► 4.0 sound, left and right, center,

00:05:56 ◼   ► and a single limited frequency range mono rear channel,

00:06:00 ◼   ► which was fascinating.

00:06:01 ◼   ► I did not think that Pro Logic was that smart,

00:06:03 ◼   ► but it turns out it is.

00:06:05 ◼   ► - A seven kilohertz low pass filtered mono rear channel

00:06:09 ◼   ► is not ideal, let's say, for a surround,

00:06:11 ◼   ► but at least they have a way of getting the signal out

00:06:13 ◼   ► as opposed to just taking stereo and guessing.

00:06:15 ◼   ► And by the way, the reverse of that is also true.

00:06:17 ◼   ► If you have a multi-channel thing and you're watching stereo,

00:06:20 ◼   ► every receiver and every receiver-like device thing

00:06:23 ◼   ► will have a way to say, well,

00:06:24 ◼   ► I'm only getting two channels of sound,

00:06:26 ◼   ► but I'll figure out a way to spread it over your speakers

00:06:28 ◼   ► in a reasonable way.

00:06:29 ◼   ► I mean, that's a little bit easier

00:06:30 ◼   ► because it's not like you're losing information.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Worst case scenario,

00:06:33 ◼   ► you can just play back the same stereo sounds evenly

00:06:37 ◼   ► throughout the right and left half of the speakers.

00:06:39 ◼   ► But it is true that no matter how many speakers you have,

00:06:42 ◼   ► sometimes you're gonna be watching content

00:06:43 ◼   ► that doesn't match that number of speakers,

00:06:45 ◼   ► and sometimes you might not be able to pick a soundtrack,

00:06:48 ◼   ► especially in the modern age of streaming,

00:06:49 ◼   ► where back in the day when you get a plastic disc,

00:06:52 ◼   ► they'd often have different soundtracks on them,

00:06:54 ◼   ► the stereo mix and a 5.1 mix or whatever.

00:06:57 ◼   ► But with streaming, there's not that much of that.

00:06:59 ◼   ► So you're at the mercy of whatever the audio track is,

00:07:01 ◼   ► and if your number of speakers matches that, great,

00:07:03 ◼   ► and if not, some device somewhere

00:07:05 ◼   ► is gonna be doing something for you.

00:07:07 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:07:08 ◼   ► I've probably told this story five times on the show

00:07:10 ◼   ► over the last decade, but I remember vividly

00:07:13 ◼   ► when this was probably like '93, '94, something like that,

00:07:18 ◼   ► my dad's favorite party trick in the world,

00:07:21 ◼   ► which says a lot about my dad in many different ways,

00:07:23 ◼   ► was he would put on the top, I almost said top gear,

00:07:27 ◼   ► the top gun laser disc, and we had a laser disc player

00:07:31 ◼   ► in a Dolby surround sound system set up,

00:07:34 ◼   ► and there were times that the plane would pass

00:07:37 ◼   ► from the bottom of the frame to the top of the frame,

00:07:39 ◼   ► and ostensibly it's going over the camera and behind you.

00:07:41 ◼   ► And it sounded like it was going behind you.

00:07:43 ◼   ► And I tell you what, in 1993 or whatever this was,

00:07:46 ◼   ► that blew my mind.

00:07:49 ◼   ► And then it got even better

00:07:51 ◼   ► because we had one of those really ridiculous

00:07:53 ◼   ► remote controls that had a physical jog wheel at the bottom.

00:07:56 ◼   ► So you could go frame by frame on the laserdisc

00:07:58 ◼   ► and that was also like earth shatteringly cool at the time.

00:08:02 ◼   ► It was amazing.

00:08:03 ◼   ► And of course the fidelity of these frames

00:08:06 ◼   ► was straight trash.

00:08:07 ◼   ► I mean it was not quite real player bad,

00:08:09 ◼   ► but it was not great.

00:08:10 ◼   ► It was like basically VHS bad,

00:08:12 ◼   ► and somebody's gonna correct me

00:08:13 ◼   ► and tell me it was actually better than VHS,

00:08:14 ◼   ► it doesn't matter, the point is.

00:08:15 ◼   ► - Laserdisc was better than VHS for sure.

00:08:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think the resolution was necessarily better.

00:08:21 ◼   ► - But the fidelity is in terms of the reproduction,

00:08:24 ◼   ► not being filled with noise from various things

00:08:27 ◼   ► messing with the magnetic garbage

00:08:29 ◼   ► on a piece of plastic tape.

00:08:30 ◼   ► - And it could freeze frame

00:08:31 ◼   ► without like weird distortion or whatever.

00:08:33 ◼   ► - Right, right, right.

00:08:34 ◼   ► And so that's what he would do,

00:08:35 ◼   ► and it just seemed like the coolest thing

00:08:37 ◼   ► in the frickin' world.

00:08:38 ◼   ► - That's the thing, like back in those days,

00:08:40 ◼   ► like talking about Dolby Pro Logic

00:08:42 ◼   ► and all these different things,

00:08:43 ◼   ► I mean, there were so many amazing, clever hacks done

00:08:46 ◼   ► with these old simple analog formats

00:08:49 ◼   ► to try to cram more data or more channels

00:08:51 ◼   ► or more tricks into them,

00:08:52 ◼   ► and some of them actually worked pretty well,

00:08:55 ◼   ► and many of them were from Dolby, honestly.

00:08:58 ◼   ► But I remember, I also had, for all of my complaining

00:09:02 ◼   ► about how surround sound really isn't super compelling

00:09:05 ◼   ► for me today, we actually had surround sound in the 90s also.

00:09:08 ◼   ► We had it pretty early because at some point

00:09:12 ◼   ► in the mid 90s, my mom bought this 5.1 Bose system.

00:09:17 ◼   ► She basically made like three impulse purchases

00:09:22 ◼   ► throughout my entire childhood and that was one of them.

00:09:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:09:25 ◼   ► And so we had this Bose surround sound system

00:09:28 ◼   ► and first it was just from VCRs

00:09:31 ◼   ► and whatever was encoded on those.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Eventually we got a DVD player

00:09:33 ◼   ► and that broadened our horizons a little bit there.

00:09:36 ◼   ► But it was amazing for the time.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Ultimately though, I don't find that compelling now

00:09:44 ◼   ► because to me it is kind of like that 90s trick

00:09:46 ◼   ► that we've made the trick better over the years,

00:09:49 ◼   ► but it's still just kind of like this novelty thing

00:09:51 ◼   ► that when I don't have it, I don't miss it.

00:09:54 ◼   ► So that's why I'm down on it for myself now.

00:09:56 ◼   ► But I don't fault anyone else for caring more than I do,

00:09:58 ◼   ► obviously, I care more than most people do

00:10:00 ◼   ► about lots of things, so I understand what that's like.

00:10:02 ◼   ► and if you care more than I do about this,

00:10:04 ◼   ► more power to you, but all this is to say

00:10:06 ◼   ► that all this crazy surround hack stuff we had in the '90s

00:10:10 ◼   ► was actually pretty decent and worked surprisingly well

00:10:15 ◼   ► considering how little technical sophistication

00:10:20 ◼   ► they had to work with.

00:10:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I completely, very emphatically agree.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Speaking of surround systems and hacks,

00:10:28 ◼   ► let's talk about Jon's Sony HT-A9 setup, shall we?

00:10:32 ◼   ► We got a lot of feedback about this.

00:10:34 ◼   ► Personally, I'm just sitting here smug on my Sonos throne, feeling very good about my

00:10:38 ◼   ► world right now.

00:10:39 ◼   ► But to come back to the Sony HTA-9, if you recall, this was, I'm pretty sure Jon brought

00:10:45 ◼   ► this up, it was considered, we considered it a more baller version of the Sonos setup

00:10:50 ◼   ► that I have.

00:10:52 ◼   ► The way it works is there's a box, it's like an Apple TV box, and it communicates via a

00:10:56 ◼   ► proprietary wireless thing to four satellite speakers, and then optionally a subwoofer,

00:11:01 ◼   ► and allegedly it sounds really frickin' good.

00:11:04 ◼   ► Well, a lot of people wrote in to us to say,

00:11:07 ◼   ► "Oh, there's some evidence that this is not as good

00:11:09 ◼   ► "as we thought."

00:11:10 ◼   ► There is a Linus Tech Tips video.

00:11:12 ◼   ► I'm not a Linus fan,

00:11:14 ◼   ► but we will link it in the show notes nonetheless.

00:11:16 ◼   ► - I'm making that expression on my face right now.

00:11:18 ◼   ► That's all of his thumbnails.

00:11:19 ◼   ► (yelps)

00:11:20 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:11:20 ◼   ► - I think that's why a lot of people said this,

00:11:22 ◼   ► because I see he's a popular YouTuber,

00:11:24 ◼   ► and a lot of people have seen that video.

00:11:25 ◼   ► Surely not this many people actually own the HDA9,

00:11:29 ◼   ► but some people who do own it did write in.

00:11:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:11:32 ◼   ► And so the first bit of follow-up we got was from John Koch.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I don't, I'm gonna try to summarize this

00:11:39 ◼   ► as best I can on the fly.

00:11:40 ◼   ► It was a genuinely fascinating follow-up,

00:11:43 ◼   ► but it was extremely verbose,

00:11:45 ◼   ► and I'm gonna try to do my best here.

00:11:46 ◼   ► So John Koch writes, starts off by writing,

00:11:49 ◼   ► I'm writing to strongly warn you

00:11:51 ◼   ► and the listeners about the HTA-9.

00:11:53 ◼   ► Like you, I took Andrew's recommendation,

00:11:54 ◼   ► found the system on sale for much less than the 2,700,

00:11:57 ◼   ► but still almost $2,000.

00:11:58 ◼   ► The system advertises using five gigahertz wireless,

00:12:01 ◼   ► and it turns out that that's Wi-Fi, 802.11n Wi-Fi.

00:12:04 ◼   ► Yes, a wireless technology from 2009.

00:12:06 ◼   ► It creates its own Wi-Fi network like Sonos,

00:12:08 ◼   ► presumably to bypass contention

00:12:10 ◼   ► with other stations in the user's home.

00:12:12 ◼   ► The problem is it's freaking terrible at it.

00:12:16 ◼   ► It uses a 40-megahertz channel.

00:12:18 ◼   ► The other alternatives they could have chosen.

00:12:21 ◼   ► It's terrible about choosing a channel.

00:12:23 ◼   ► In order to get it to work without dropping out,

00:12:25 ◼   ► I had to reconfigure my own home Wi-Fi

00:12:27 ◼   ► to not use channels that the HT-A9 seemed to like,

00:12:30 ◼   ► which is not great, but okay.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Other Wi-Fi systems may not be so configurable.

00:12:34 ◼   ► The issue for John is that he lives in the townhouse

00:12:36 ◼   ► and, you know, has a lot of other adjacent Wi-Fi

00:12:38 ◼   ► that he can't control, blah, blah, blah.

00:12:41 ◼   ► So John said, "Sometime after I return the system,

00:12:43 ◼   ► put in a traditional AVR surround speaker setup."

00:12:45 ◼   ► Linus Tech Tips posted a video describing an issue

00:12:47 ◼   ► with the system affecting his own Wi-Fi.

00:12:50 ◼   ► And John finishes by saying, "When it does work,

00:12:52 ◼   ► it really is incredible in effect and simplicity,

00:12:54 ◼   ► but unless you have precise control over your own Wi-Fi

00:12:56 ◼   ► and have little external 5 gigahertz Wi-Fi interference,

00:12:58 ◼   ► you should stay away from the system

00:13:00 ◼   ► or at least be very prepared to return it.

00:13:02 ◼   ► Meanwhile, Ian White writes,

00:13:04 ◼   ► "I haven't noticed any Wi-Fi interference,

00:13:05 ◼   ► "but I have a pretty intense mesh Wi-Fi setup

00:13:07 ◼   ► "with four nodes and a 1,500 square foot space,

00:13:10 ◼   ► "so it could be that my overkill system

00:13:12 ◼   ► "can overcome any interference speakers

00:13:13 ◼   ► "might otherwise cause.

00:13:15 ◼   ► "One thing I will say is that I do occasionally

00:13:17 ◼   ► "experience speaker dropouts."

00:13:19 ◼   ► That's not desirable.

00:13:20 ◼   ► It's not common.

00:13:22 ◼   ► It happens maybe once every two or three months,

00:13:24 ◼   ► which, okay, fine, not that big a deal, says Casey,

00:13:27 ◼   ► but it gets better.

00:13:28 ◼   ► and requires me to rerun the built-in RF calibration

00:13:31 ◼   ► to resolve it.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Not good, Bob.

00:13:34 ◼   ► But I still find it irritating, considering the cost.

00:13:37 ◼   ► This is something.

00:13:38 ◼   ► - This is like when you're old iMac,

00:13:39 ◼   ► you're like, it's fine, nothing's wrong with it.

00:13:41 ◼   ► Well, it does randomly power off twice a week, maybe,

00:13:45 ◼   ► and occasionally corrupts the RAM,

00:13:47 ◼   ► and it's like, oh, but it's fine, everything's all right.

00:13:49 ◼   ► - It's fine, don't worry about it.

00:13:50 ◼   ► Don't look behind the curtain.

00:13:51 ◼   ► So he writes, "I still find it irritating,

00:13:54 ◼   ► "consisting the cost in that the little base station

00:13:55 ◼   ► "is not that far from all the speakers

00:13:57 ◼   ► and has line of sight to all of them.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Last, I'll say that I'm no audiophile,

00:14:01 ◼   ► but I think the sound is great and nicely immersive.

00:14:03 ◼   ► I wasn't aware of the smile curve you guys talked about,

00:14:05 ◼   ► but I don't doubt it.

00:14:05 ◼   ► I do sometimes wish it was better bringing the dialogue out.

00:14:08 ◼   ► So yeah, that Sony magic is maybe not so magical.

00:14:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the problem with any kind of wireless system

00:14:13 ◼   ► is if you're gonna have wireless speakers,

00:14:16 ◼   ► they're super convenient, but guess what?

00:14:17 ◼   ► They communicate wirelessly,

00:14:18 ◼   ► and there's only so much bandwidth,

00:14:20 ◼   ► especially if you're in a situation

00:14:21 ◼   ► like you're an apartment or a townhouse

00:14:22 ◼   ► where you have a bunch of neighbors real close to you

00:14:24 ◼   ► and you have no control over their Wi-Fi

00:14:26 ◼   ► and it's bleeding into your space, that can be kind of a mess.

00:14:29 ◼   ► Yeah, this is just like, you know, earlier tonight there was, unbeknownst to me, there

00:14:34 ◼   ► was an Apple Music outage. And what I wanted was to get music playing. I had just gotten

00:14:39 ◼   ► home, we were out of town, I had just gotten home, I was unloading everything, unloading

00:14:43 ◼   ► groceries, had to wash the dishes, I'm like, "Let me just put on some music." So I asked

00:14:47 ◼   ► my HomePods, "Hey, play the Rolling Stones." Never heard of them. Yeah, well, yeah, Siri

00:14:51 ◼   ► had not heard of them. It was giving responses like, "I'm sorry, I don't find any songs by

00:14:56 ◼   ► the Rolling Stones and Apple Music." Hmm, like cool. Was there a contractual dispute?

00:15:01 ◼   ► What like, and eventually, and eventually I just airplayed it from my phone and that worked fine,

00:15:05 ◼   ► but, and eventually I learned there was an outage. But as I was, as I was going through it,

00:15:10 ◼   ► I was thinking like, you know, when our parents came home from a long day and they wanted to put

00:15:15 ◼   ► some music on, what they did was they walked over to the stereo, they maybe took out a record or,

00:15:20 ◼   ► or later on a CD, and then they would put it in the stereo

00:15:25 ◼   ► if it wasn't already there, and they'd hit play,

00:15:27 ◼   ► and it would play.

00:15:28 ◼   ► It wouldn't play 60% of the time.

00:15:30 ◼   ► It wouldn't throw random errors halfway through songs.

00:15:33 ◼   ► One speaker wouldn't occasionally drop out

00:15:35 ◼   ► for a few seconds for no reason.

00:15:36 ◼   ► It would just play, like that was it.

00:15:38 ◼   ► - Sometimes the record would skip.

00:15:40 ◼   ► - Really, I mean really, really.

00:15:41 ◼   ► And then once we went to tapes and CDs,

00:15:43 ◼   ► that stopped being a problem too.

00:15:44 ◼   ► - Well sometimes the machine would need the tape.

00:15:46 ◼   ► - That's very rare.

00:15:48 ◼   ► Every technology has its own problems.

00:15:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, but we have more of them.

00:15:51 ◼   ► - If you walked or jumped near the CD player,

00:15:53 ◼   ► sometimes that would skip as well.

00:15:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, you gotta go by the one with the big buffer.

00:15:56 ◼   ► - Well, but the point is, I feel like

00:15:58 ◼   ► with our modern ways of doing things,

00:16:00 ◼   ► we've added so much complexity

00:16:03 ◼   ► in the name of convenient features or nice abilities,

00:16:06 ◼   ► and many of those are great.

00:16:07 ◼   ► Many of those features and abilities

00:16:10 ◼   ► we really do use and appreciate,

00:16:12 ◼   ► but it has come with it a lot of complexity.

00:16:14 ◼   ► And so in an area like this, we're like, okay,

00:16:16 ◼   ► If you have a home theater speaker system

00:16:19 ◼   ► that is communicating between the speakers

00:16:22 ◼   ► via a Wi-Fi network or a Wi-Fi like protocol

00:16:25 ◼   ► or whatever it is, there's so many layers

00:16:27 ◼   ► of complexity there, and that's just one part of the stack.

00:16:30 ◼   ► Feeding that is whatever electronic media source

00:16:34 ◼   ► is feeding the TV or receiver or whatever,

00:16:37 ◼   ► so there's another point of failure there.

00:16:38 ◼   ► And it's like, the more complex you make your system,

00:16:41 ◼   ► the more points of failure there are.

00:16:43 ◼   ► And the more technical tricks you play,

00:16:46 ◼   ► oh, we're gonna make this one automatically smart

00:16:49 ◼   ► and have it process the sound in this way

00:16:50 ◼   ► to sense where the speakers are

00:16:51 ◼   ► and have room calibration and wifi.

00:16:54 ◼   ► The more of those things you layer on top,

00:16:57 ◼   ► the more likely it is that you're gonna run

00:16:58 ◼   ► into weird failures or intermittent problems

00:17:01 ◼   ► or bugs in people's implementations.

00:17:03 ◼   ► And electronics manufacturers are not known

00:17:05 ◼   ► for fixing bugs really ever.

00:17:09 ◼   ► this is a recipe for a system overall,

00:17:13 ◼   ► or a setup overall in your living room

00:17:16 ◼   ► that seems really cool and is really great when it works,

00:17:20 ◼   ► but you're just asking for just periodic weirdness

00:17:23 ◼   ► or flakiness or bugs.

00:17:24 ◼   ► And I don't know, increasingly as I get older,

00:17:26 ◼   ► I'm like, get off my lawn with that stuff.

00:17:28 ◼   ► Just give me stuff that works every time.

00:17:30 ◼   ► - I don't know, I think Casey Sonnus shows

00:17:32 ◼   ► that wireless speakers that are vaguely smart

00:17:35 ◼   ► and communicate with each other wirelessly

00:17:36 ◼   ► is not necessarily a recipe for unreliability,

00:17:39 ◼   ► it's just that Sony maybe is not doing as good a job

00:17:42 ◼   ► as Sonos in this area.

00:17:43 ◼   ► And I feel like the Sony system, as I said last time,

00:17:46 ◼   ► it's solving a specific problem

00:17:47 ◼   ► that is not solved by other solutions.

00:17:49 ◼   ► If you have a crap room where you can't put things

00:17:51 ◼   ► in the right place, a regular system's not gonna sound good.

00:17:54 ◼   ► It'll be reliably bad all the time,

00:17:56 ◼   ► because you just can't put the speakers

00:17:58 ◼   ► in the right places, or they'll bounce sound

00:17:59 ◼   ► off of weird places, you need something like this

00:18:02 ◼   ► where you're like, this is literally the only place

00:18:03 ◼   ► I have to put these speakers, I can't run speaker wire,

00:18:06 ◼   ► I need something that's small,

00:18:07 ◼   ► and I have to put them in weird, awkward places.

00:18:09 ◼   ► Can you do something with that?

00:18:10 ◼   ► That's what this product is supposed to do.

00:18:11 ◼   ► It seems like it would be better if it did that job

00:18:15 ◼   ► without as much wireless messiness.

00:18:17 ◼   ► But everyone who's wrote in about it has said

00:18:20 ◼   ► that it does sound really good.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And so I think it is solving the problem.

00:18:22 ◼   ► And that problem can't be solved without this complexity.

00:18:26 ◼   ► So I'm still pro progress.

00:18:28 ◼   ► I don't wanna go back to big, giant speakers

00:18:30 ◼   ► like my parents had that are taller than I was as a toddler,

00:18:33 ◼   ► and there's only two of them,

00:18:34 ◼   ► and they're next to a giant piece of furniture

00:18:36 ◼   ► where the turntable is.

00:18:38 ◼   ► - Right.

00:18:38 ◼   ► No, it's funny listening to Marco talk,

00:18:40 ◼   ► and it's, you know, tell me you're a HomePod user

00:18:43 ◼   ► without telling me you're a HomePod user.

00:18:45 ◼   ► Well, whenever I try it, nothing works

00:18:46 ◼   ► and everything's broken these days.

00:18:48 ◼   ► Yep, well, okay.

00:18:50 ◼   ► Now, to be fair to Marco and your HomePod setup,

00:18:52 ◼   ► I can't shout to the Sonos using Apple Music,

00:18:56 ◼   ► you know, unless I enabled Alexa or something.

00:18:57 ◼   ► I can't shout to the Sonos, you know, go play this.

00:19:00 ◼   ► - That's probably a feature, not a bug.

00:19:01 ◼   ► - Doesn't have its own voice assistant

00:19:03 ◼   ► where you can do Hey Sonos or something?

00:19:04 ◼   ► - You absolutely, no it does have Hey Sonos,

00:19:07 ◼   ► but to the best of my recollection,

00:19:08 ◼   ► that's only about controlling the Sonos.

00:19:10 ◼   ► Like you know, volume up, volume down,

00:19:12 ◼   ► move this to whatever room.

00:19:13 ◼   ► You know, it's a very limited repertoire.

00:19:15 ◼   ► So in the defense of the home pods,

00:19:17 ◼   ► or in the defense of Marco's broken home pods,

00:19:21 ◼   ► you know I can't do quite as much with my Sonos

00:19:22 ◼   ► as he can with his home pods.

00:19:24 ◼   ► But genuinely, it has been,

00:19:26 ◼   ► and it's only been a few months, I'll admit that,

00:19:28 ◼   ► but it has been pretty much bulletproof.

00:19:30 ◼   ► And the thing, I actually did this

00:19:31 ◼   ► just two or three days ago.

00:19:32 ◼   ► I keep my Sonos Roam, which is a little like, you know,

00:19:36 ◼   ► Jambox-esque portable speaker.

00:19:38 ◼   ► I keep that on a base station.

00:19:40 ◼   ► Yeah, right?

00:19:41 ◼   ► God, I love my Jambox so much.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Anyway, I took that off of its base station,

00:19:46 ◼   ► which is in our room,

00:19:47 ◼   ► which is clear on the other side of the house

00:19:49 ◼   ► from the screened-in porch.

00:19:50 ◼   ► And I, you know, mashed down on the play button,

00:19:53 ◼   ► which is Sonos speak for, you know, continue play,

00:19:55 ◼   ► whatever's playing in somewhere else.

00:19:57 ◼   ► Take your best guess as to which one of the speakers

00:19:59 ◼   ► you want to mimic here, which in my case,

00:20:01 ◼   ► there was only one other thing playing,

00:20:03 ◼   ► and start playing it right here, right?

00:20:04 ◼   ► So, you know, something was playing on the porch,

00:20:06 ◼   ► I mashed down the play button for a couple seconds,

00:20:07 ◼   ► then it starts playing whatever was on the porch

00:20:09 ◼   ► here on the speaker, literally in my hand, right?

00:20:12 ◼   ► And I am clear, now we don't have a very big house,

00:20:14 ◼   ► but I'm clear across the house, a floor up.

00:20:17 ◼   ► I go walking downstairs,

00:20:19 ◼   ► I have three different Eero bass stations in the house.

00:20:21 ◼   ► I would assume that if I am on the house wifi,

00:20:24 ◼   ► that I've jumped between Eero bass stations at least once.

00:20:27 ◼   ► I go downstairs, I walk through the living room,

00:20:29 ◼   ► which is playing the same song,

00:20:31 ◼   ► into the porch and I could not hear not a millisecond

00:20:36 ◼   ► of difference between what was coming out of my hand

00:20:39 ◼   ► and what was coming out of the speakers.

00:20:40 ◼   ► As I'm moving between rooms through the house,

00:20:42 ◼   ► it blew my mind because I would have absolutely expected

00:20:46 ◼   ► that there would have been some small,

00:20:49 ◼   ► infinitesimal amounts of latency somewhere

00:20:51 ◼   ► and I heard none.

00:20:53 ◼   ► It was amazing.

00:20:54 ◼   ► I don't know how it works.

00:20:56 ◼   ► - Well, playing back music you can cheat with buffers,

00:20:58 ◼   ► But playing soundtracks to video is much tougher.

00:21:01 ◼   ► Yes, you can buffer the video as well,

00:21:03 ◼   ► but the Sonos system and the other sound systems

00:21:05 ◼   ► don't have complete control over the video

00:21:07 ◼   ► unless they themselves make a receiver,

00:21:09 ◼   ► which is the hack to get that,

00:21:10 ◼   ► or playing video games or whatever.

00:21:11 ◼   ► So the latency issue and sync issues get much harder

00:21:15 ◼   ► as the size of the buffer you're allowed to have shrinks.

00:21:19 ◼   ► - That's fair, that's fair.

00:21:20 ◼   ► - So I think playing back music,

00:21:21 ◼   ► it can just build that sucker up

00:21:23 ◼   ► and make sure everybody's synchronized

00:21:24 ◼   ► and have no underflow problems,

00:21:26 ◼   ► and it doesn't matter if it takes a second or two

00:21:27 ◼   ► to build that up, you're fine.

00:21:29 ◼   ► Whereas if you wanna hit play on a movie

00:21:32 ◼   ► and see audio and video start instantaneously,

00:21:34 ◼   ► your buffer can't be too big.

00:21:36 ◼   ► - Everything you said, I completely agree with.

00:21:37 ◼   ► And it may just be as simple as buffering and timing,

00:21:40 ◼   ► like you said.

00:21:40 ◼   ► And the other thing I wanna very, very briefly mention is,

00:21:42 ◼   ► Sonos does have like true, it's true something or other,

00:21:46 ◼   ► I forget the marketing term they use for it,

00:21:48 ◼   ► but what you can do is, for the home theater stuff,

00:21:51 ◼   ► you can take an iPhone or an iPad,

00:21:53 ◼   ► and actually one thing that's not great about Sonos

00:21:55 ◼   ► is they're not very good about updating this

00:21:57 ◼   ► for new hardware, I presume because they have to get

00:22:00 ◼   ► that hardware in-house and figure out

00:22:01 ◼   ► what the microphones are like and blah, blah, blah.

00:22:03 ◼   ► But one way or another, you can take an iPad or an iPhone,

00:22:06 ◼   ► as long as they're not brand new,

00:22:07 ◼   ► and you can go into the Sonos app

00:22:09 ◼   ► and you walk around your room as it plays different tones,

00:22:12 ◼   ► as you're literally waving the iPad or iPhone

00:22:14 ◼   ► up and down in your arms, you look like a friggin' idiot

00:22:18 ◼   ► when you're doing this, but--

00:22:20 ◼   ► - This is one of those things that's like,

00:22:21 ◼   ► if your spouse walks in on you when you're doing this--

00:22:24 ◼   ► - Oh, it's bad.

00:22:25 ◼   ► so many better things for them to walk in on than this.

00:22:28 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, yeah, the list of things that are worse

00:22:31 ◼   ► is not very long, but nevertheless,

00:22:33 ◼   ► they do have this True Tone, or whatever,

00:22:35 ◼   ► I forget what it's called, where allegedly,

00:22:38 ◼   ► it will do similar things to the Sony setup

00:22:40 ◼   ► that we've been talking about.

00:22:41 ◼   ► I am not here trying to say that it's the same,

00:22:43 ◼   ► I'm not trying to say that it's better than the Sony,

00:22:45 ◼   ► or even as good as the Sony, but allegedly,

00:22:49 ◼   ► they will do some sort of sound shaping

00:22:51 ◼   ► in order to accommodate your room.

00:22:53 ◼   ► I mean, I did this, and I didn't notice

00:22:54 ◼   ► particularly big difference but who knows. We are sponsored this week by the

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00:24:49 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:24:53 ◼   ► Mark Johnson writes, with regard to John's woes-- and

00:24:55 ◼   ► it's not just John--

00:24:56 ◼   ► with skipping intro and accidentally mashing on the

00:25:00 ◼   ► touch pad and doing all sorts of various and sundry terrible

00:25:03 ◼   ► things, Mark Johnson writes, when using the Apple TV and

00:25:06 ◼   ► presented with the skip intro prompt on the screen, don't

00:25:08 ◼   ► use the middle button at the top of the remote.

00:25:10 ◼   ► Use the play/pause button instead.

00:25:12 ◼   ► In Netflix and Plex, that button works.

00:25:14 ◼   ► The icon on the screen actually has the play/pause

00:25:16 ◼   ► icon before the skip text.

00:25:19 ◼   ► I didn't know that.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Couple things to this.

00:25:21 ◼   ► So first I did, since complaining about it on the last show, I did actually bite the

00:25:24 ◼   ► bullet and turn off touch sensitivity on my Apple TV remote just to try that for a while

00:25:28 ◼   ► to see if I, you know, and predictably as soon as I do that I try to swipe on the thing

00:25:32 ◼   ► on the main screen to navigate and of course it doesn't work.

00:25:34 ◼   ► But I'm trying that to see if it helps reliability.

00:25:38 ◼   ► In terms of the play/pause button, one of the things I didn't mention when I was complaining

00:25:42 ◼   ► about apps is forget about the touch pad.

00:25:46 ◼   ► Some apps that I use on Apple TV, I'll be watching a show and I will hit the play pause

00:25:50 ◼   ► button to pause the video and then I'll go to do something and then I'll come back and

00:25:54 ◼   ► hit the play pause button again to resume the video and it will start playing five minutes

00:25:57 ◼   ► in either direction.

00:25:58 ◼   ► Really?

00:25:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like that is close to basic functionality fail as you can get with the Apple TV short

00:26:05 ◼   ► of not showing picture or sound, right?

00:26:08 ◼   ► Because it's like there's no touchpad involved here.

00:26:09 ◼   ► This is not a complicated UI.

00:26:11 ◼   ► And again, I don't blame the Apple TV.

00:26:14 ◼   ► Whatever app this is, it's doing something terrible.

00:26:16 ◼   ► It's like the mortal sin of a playback application.

00:26:18 ◼   ► Jump to jump me forward in a show

00:26:20 ◼   ► that I've never seen before, five minutes,

00:26:21 ◼   ► when all I did was hit play/pause,

00:26:23 ◼   ► a non-touch sensitive button on my remote.

00:26:25 ◼   ► So, so angry.

00:26:26 ◼   ► So I really hope Apple TV apps get better with time

00:26:30 ◼   ► because a lot of them are really falling down the job.

00:26:32 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, I don't use that many apps on the Apple TV.

00:26:36 ◼   ► - I do, unfortunately.

00:26:37 ◼   ► That's why I did this tour of all the bad programming

00:26:40 ◼   ► across the industry.

00:26:42 ◼   ► - Because I'm not trying to argue with your experience.

00:26:44 ◼   ► I'm not trying to say you're wrong,

00:26:45 ◼   ► but for me, most of my watching is in Plex, Disney Plus,

00:26:49 ◼   ► or channels, and all three of them,

00:26:52 ◼   ► I can't recall having had this problem.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Maybe I have and I just don't remember,

00:26:55 ◼   ► but certainly not with the frequency that you seem to,

00:26:58 ◼   ► so I don't know if it just so happens

00:26:59 ◼   ► that it's not those three apps

00:27:01 ◼   ► that you're seeing this all the time?

00:27:02 ◼   ► - I don't think, it's usually the more obscure ones,

00:27:05 ◼   ► and I'm counting like Hulu is maybe more obscure

00:27:07 ◼   ► than those things.

00:27:08 ◼   ► Amazon, I think, is the worst, probably.

00:27:10 ◼   ► Amazon is probably the buggiest

00:27:11 ◼   ► in terms of fundamental bugs.

00:27:14 ◼   ► problems with Hulu, the various HBO apps over the years have been of varying quality. The

00:27:21 ◼   ► Apple TV+ one I think is the only one that I've probably never had a problem with. The

00:27:26 ◼   ► problem with that one of course is I can never find what I was watching, but that's a universal

00:27:30 ◼   ► problem.

00:27:31 ◼   ► Just yesterday I sat down to watch the first episode of Ted Lasso to prepare myself for

00:27:35 ◼   ► the new season. I think I'm a day behind already, but this is the time that if you watch one

00:27:39 ◼   ► a day you'll be roughly synced up by the time the new season starts. And for the life of

00:27:44 ◼   ► with me, the information architecture on the Apple TV app

00:27:47 ◼   ► is the biggest pile of garbage.

00:27:49 ◼   ► It is so bad.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Maybe it's just my brain doesn't work the way

00:27:53 ◼   ► that those designers do.

00:27:54 ◼   ► - Just give up and search, 'cause if you have a goal in mind

00:27:57 ◼   ► that UI will fight you every second of the way.

00:27:59 ◼   ► - Yes!

00:28:00 ◼   ► - Their whole point is that they don't want you

00:28:02 ◼   ► to have a goal, they want, says,

00:28:04 ◼   ► don't you try to watch something,

00:28:06 ◼   ► let us tell you what to watch.

00:28:07 ◼   ► And it's like, but what if I already know

00:28:08 ◼   ► what I wanna watch?

00:28:09 ◼   ► It's like, no, sorry, that's wrong, user.

00:28:11 ◼   ► You should not know what you wanna watch.

00:28:13 ◼   ► I know you think you want to watch the next episode on the show you've been watching.

00:28:16 ◼   ► For the past 30 days, all you've been doing every night is watching the show.

00:28:19 ◼   ► You probably want to watch the next episode, but there's no way in hell I'm going to show

00:28:21 ◼   ► that to you.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Try and find it.

00:28:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I could not agree with you more.

00:28:25 ◼   ► It's so bad.

00:28:26 ◼   ► It's so bad.

00:28:27 ◼   ► Anyway, all right, moving along.

00:28:29 ◼   ► Michael McGuire writes, "This is with regards to your Ask ATP segment about IDE updates.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I think your focus on incremental updates of Xcode versus full downloads might have

00:28:36 ◼   ► missed the point of the question.

00:28:37 ◼   ► In almost every other development platform I've used, including Visual Studio, Visual

00:28:40 ◼   ► Studio Code, IntelliJ, and others, there's a separation between the SDK, the build system,

00:28:45 ◼   ► and the editor itself.

00:28:46 ◼   ► Take Android, for instance.

00:28:47 ◼   ► The SDK is a direct download from Android Studio, which uses Gradle for building.

00:28:52 ◼   ► Even the compiler is a separate component that can often be independently upgraded.

00:28:55 ◼   ► With Apple, it's a big gelatinous blob.

00:28:57 ◼   ► When you update Xcode, you're getting a new compiler, build system, SDK, and IDE.

00:29:01 ◼   ► Other than simulators and Swift compiler tool chains, it is an all or nothing affair.

00:29:05 ◼   ► And even with Swift, you can't use compiler outside of the one shipping with Xcode if

00:29:09 ◼   ► if you are deploying to the App Store.

00:29:11 ◼   ► I think that this is perhaps why the writer

00:29:12 ◼   ► of the question is confused.

00:29:13 ◼   ► From the outside, Apple's way of doing things

00:29:15 ◼   ► is completely foreign.

00:29:16 ◼   ► That's a pretty good summary, actually.

00:29:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, but the explanation for that

00:29:19 ◼   ► is pretty straightforward.

00:29:20 ◼   ► Like, everyone who knows enough to ask this question

00:29:22 ◼   ► knows why Apple does it.

00:29:23 ◼   ► It's more convenient for them.

00:29:24 ◼   ► It's more convenient, it's actually,

00:29:26 ◼   ► you would say it's less convenient for users

00:29:28 ◼   ► 'cause you gotta do this big download,

00:29:29 ◼   ► but it has fewer permutations of stuff.

00:29:31 ◼   ► If Apple lets you mix and match,

00:29:32 ◼   ► like they used to let you mix and match more than they do,

00:29:35 ◼   ► but if they let you mix and match,

00:29:37 ◼   ► Debugging problems for Apple and for developers

00:29:40 ◼   ► would be more difficult because it's so much harder

00:29:42 ◼   ► to describe your situation, whereas at least now

00:29:45 ◼   ► you can say I'm using Xcode, whatever, whatever, right?

00:29:47 ◼   ► And that description encapsulates the entirety

00:29:50 ◼   ► of your situation.

00:29:51 ◼   ► If you had to say I'm using this compiler,

00:29:53 ◼   ► with this IDE, with this, you know,

00:29:55 ◼   ► it's more variables, right?

00:29:57 ◼   ► So they ship it all to one unit

00:29:59 ◼   ► because it's just simpler for everybody involved.

00:30:01 ◼   ► It is more limiting, you have less flexibility,

00:30:03 ◼   ► that's true, but I kind of don't fault Apple for this

00:30:06 ◼   ► because they have a fairly complicated thing.

00:30:08 ◼   ► Xcode itself is a very complicated IDE.

00:30:10 ◼   ► Their compiler tool chain is complicated.

00:30:12 ◼   ► They target lots of different devices.

00:30:14 ◼   ► I would not endorse the idea that Apple should,

00:30:16 ◼   ► at this point with their current quality standards

00:30:19 ◼   ► and resourcing, break out their IDE from their tool chain,

00:30:23 ◼   ► from their build system or whatever.

00:30:24 ◼   ► Please continue to ship it as all in one unit.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Just make it work better.

00:30:27 ◼   ► - And frankly, as a developer,

00:30:29 ◼   ► with the disclaimer that my internet connection

00:30:30 ◼   ► is good enough that the download sizes aren't prohibitive,

00:30:34 ◼   ► I actually prefer it this way,

00:30:35 ◼   ► because I don't wanna have to deal with,

00:30:38 ◼   ► oh, this version of this tool is out of date,

00:30:40 ◼   ► but this is conflicting with this thing over here.

00:30:43 ◼   ► You know what it would be like.

00:30:44 ◼   ► We've seen this in other areas of tech

00:30:45 ◼   ► and with these other ideas.

00:30:46 ◼   ► - Tell me you're a CocoaPods developer

00:30:48 ◼   ► without telling me you're a CocoaPods developer.

00:30:50 ◼   ► Holy smokes, it's so bad.

00:30:51 ◼   ► - Right, we know exactly what,

00:30:53 ◼   ► it would be a mess of package installation

00:30:56 ◼   ► and conflicts and dependencies

00:30:58 ◼   ► and tools not working right with each other

00:31:00 ◼   ► or things thinking they're there when they're not.

00:31:02 ◼   ► We know what that world would be like.

00:31:04 ◼   ► I am very happy to have this one area of my life

00:31:07 ◼   ► that I don't want to deal with that.

00:31:08 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:31:09 ◼   ► William Vibrinskas writes,

00:31:12 ◼   ► the Ford F-150 Lightning Sunroof does kind of

00:31:14 ◼   ► what you explained in the latest ATP.

00:31:16 ◼   ► It's the full length of the roof, slightly tinted,

00:31:18 ◼   ► it fully opens and has a cloth motorized cover.

00:31:21 ◼   ► I am here for Marco driving a pickup.

00:31:24 ◼   ► I cannot imagine what that would look like.

00:31:26 ◼   ► - I'm shocked that something like this exists.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Like it really, I looked at a video,

00:31:29 ◼   ► really does all those things.

00:31:30 ◼   ► You know, it's just a unicorn.

00:31:33 ◼   ► I don't know of any other vehicle in like the past two decades that had all these things

00:31:37 ◼   ► glass on roof with tint with a cloth cover and that also opens.

00:31:40 ◼   ► It's unheard of.

00:31:41 ◼   ► Aaron's does Aaron's it's not as it's not the full length of the roof.

00:31:44 ◼   ► I mean, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

00:31:45 ◼   ► Like in modern sort of modern full glass roof thing, but that also is tinted, but that also

00:31:50 ◼   ► opens but that also has a cloth color like it's everything combined.

00:31:54 ◼   ► It used to be the norm like this when you get all of them back when Sunroofs were these

00:31:58 ◼   ► little rounded wreck portals on top of your car, but now it's the whole roof.

00:32:01 ◼   ► I mean, Aarons is the largest sunroof

00:32:04 ◼   ► that I have had ownership of,

00:32:07 ◼   ► but it is not nearly as big as a lot of these.

00:32:08 ◼   ► - And it doesn't, there's glass between it

00:32:10 ◼   ► and the windshield too, it's not continuous.

00:32:12 ◼   ► - Yes, there's metal between it and the windshield.

00:32:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's true on the F-150 as well.

00:32:16 ◼   ► It's just the Model X is the full glass thing.

00:32:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, which by the way,

00:32:19 ◼   ► we made all the Model X owners mad and don't care.

00:32:21 ◼   ► - It was more tinted than it is.

00:32:23 ◼   ► It does look more tinted from the outside, that is true.

00:32:26 ◼   ► - We have a little bit of a COVID follow-up.

00:32:27 ◼   ► Let me just start with a disclaimer

00:32:30 ◼   ► that if you are worried about getting advice

00:32:33 ◼   ► regarding COVID, the last three humans on the planet

00:32:37 ◼   ► you should listen to are the three of us.

00:32:38 ◼   ► But-- - I wouldn't say that.

00:32:40 ◼   ► We all have a lot of experience now.

00:32:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true.

00:32:43 ◼   ► We all do. - Also, there's a lot

00:32:44 ◼   ► of way worse advice out there.

00:32:46 ◼   ► - Well, okay, that's also fair.

00:32:47 ◼   ► I'm trying to be self-deprecating here,

00:32:49 ◼   ► but no, you are right.

00:32:50 ◼   ► There may be one of the last. - A lot.

00:32:52 ◼   ► - Well, hey, let me preface this,

00:32:53 ◼   ► because the reason this is important,

00:32:55 ◼   ► the reason I put these links in here,

00:32:57 ◼   ► when I talked about this last time,

00:32:59 ◼   ► I said a bunch of stuff about COVID,

00:33:01 ◼   ► and Mark was like, "Oh, I hadn't heard of that,"

00:33:02 ◼   ► or one of you was like, "Oh, I hadn't heard of that."

00:33:05 ◼   ► If you're not constantly keeping up with all the articles

00:33:07 ◼   ► that come out about COVID and the various studies,

00:33:09 ◼   ► stuff's changing all the time.

00:33:10 ◼   ► So what I had said about multiple COVID infections being,

00:33:14 ◼   ► subsequent COVID infections being worse,

00:33:16 ◼   ► getting worse and worse instead of getting better,

00:33:19 ◼   ► I wasn't just making that up.

00:33:20 ◼   ► It was something that I had read.

00:33:21 ◼   ► And then people said, "Oh, actually,

00:33:23 ◼   ► "there've been more studies,"

00:33:24 ◼   ► and they found out that's not really the case, right?

00:33:25 ◼   ► That's the way science works, right?

00:33:27 ◼   ► But I was like, is that really super outdated information?

00:33:29 ◼   ► Because people ask for like, where did you read this?

00:33:31 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, I've seen this recently enough.

00:33:33 ◼   ► I can pull up the link and I would send it to people.

00:33:35 ◼   ► And the study was like a Washington University study

00:33:37 ◼   ► or something, November, 2022.

00:33:40 ◼   ► That's not that long ago.

00:33:41 ◼   ► - No, it is not. - So November, 2022,

00:33:43 ◼   ► it's like already outdated, right?

00:33:45 ◼   ► Because there are so many people are studying this

00:33:47 ◼   ► as you can imagine, the status quo changes.

00:33:50 ◼   ► And if you haven't looked at the status quo

00:33:52 ◼   ► since like 2020 or 20, if you haven't like read up

00:33:54 ◼   ► about COVID stuff since 2020 or 2021,

00:33:56 ◼   ► So much has changed since then.

00:33:58 ◼   ► So there's a whole class of people who had,

00:33:59 ◼   ► I'd never heard that subsequent COVID infections get worse.

00:34:02 ◼   ► I'd heard about it all over the place,

00:34:03 ◼   ► 'cause like, for whatever reason,

00:34:05 ◼   ► in my various news feeds and Twitter feeds

00:34:07 ◼   ► and Macedon feeds, I tend to see these articles.

00:34:09 ◼   ► And there was a big hubbub made about this article

00:34:11 ◼   ► in November 2022.

00:34:12 ◼   ► And that's the last thing I had read about COVID

00:34:15 ◼   ► that had stuck in my mind.

00:34:16 ◼   ► And it wasn't that long ago.

00:34:18 ◼   ► But since then, people have jumped on that and said,

00:34:20 ◼   ► okay, well, we'll try to reproduce this study.

00:34:22 ◼   ► Let's look at this study,

00:34:23 ◼   ► whether there are flaws in it or whatever.

00:34:24 ◼   ► And so the upshot is that subsequent studies have found

00:34:28 ◼   ► that they can't reproduce the results of this other one

00:34:30 ◼   ► and they're not sure it was representative

00:34:34 ◼   ► of average people.

00:34:35 ◼   ► So research continues.

00:34:36 ◼   ► But this is just to drive home the point

00:34:38 ◼   ► that it's hard to stay on top of this stuff

00:34:40 ◼   ► because it is changing like month by month, week by week.

00:34:44 ◼   ► And even when there's a big story

00:34:45 ◼   ► that's across all the big papers and everything,

00:34:46 ◼   ► 'cause this Washington University study,

00:34:47 ◼   ► you'll find it in every single big news site,

00:34:49 ◼   ► covered heavily, you have to look and see if they will.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And of course that story gets more coverage

00:34:54 ◼   ► than the followup that says,

00:34:56 ◼   ► actually we couldn't reproduce this,

00:34:57 ◼   ► 'cause that's not as exciting a story.

00:34:58 ◼   ► But it is out there.

00:34:59 ◼   ► And there'll be another one at like the recent round

00:35:02 ◼   ► of things are like,

00:35:03 ◼   ► what kind of things you're more susceptible to

00:35:05 ◼   ► after you're infected with COVID?

00:35:06 ◼   ► Oh, five times higher chance of heart disease

00:35:08 ◼   ► and three times higher chance of diabetes or whatever.

00:35:11 ◼   ► And then the followups to those are like,

00:35:12 ◼   ► well, is it give you more of a chance of diabetes?

00:35:15 ◼   ► Are you now going to the doctor

00:35:16 ◼   ► so you're more likely to be diagnosed with diabetes?

00:35:18 ◼   ► Whereas before you weren't going to the doctor

00:35:19 ◼   ► 'cause you were quarantining.

00:35:20 ◼   ► And it's like, research continues.

00:35:22 ◼   ► So it's hard to keep up with this treadmill,

00:35:24 ◼   ► but I think it is,

00:35:26 ◼   ► it's not important to be on the treadmill,

00:35:27 ◼   ► but it's also not important to cement your idea of COVID

00:35:30 ◼   ► in 2020 because so much has changed

00:35:32 ◼   ► and since then it will continue to change.

00:35:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I really enjoyed Keith's feedback.

00:35:36 ◼   ► I'm gonna try to make this very quick.

00:35:37 ◼   ► As per the proof that your audience is extremely diverse,

00:35:39 ◼   ► I'm a scientist, PhD medicinal chemist

00:35:42 ◼   ► who has worked on viruses for pretty much my whole career,

00:35:44 ◼   ► first as a medicinal chemist and then in other roles.

00:35:48 ◼   ► And Keith has worked on basically anything

00:35:49 ◼   ► you've heard of in the past.

00:35:51 ◼   ► "Reinfection does not lead to increased severity.

00:35:52 ◼   ► Most systematic studies have shown that disease severity

00:35:55 ◼   ► is generally lower or similar on reinfection."

00:35:57 ◼   ► There are tons of references out there,

00:35:59 ◼   ► but they're in, he cites different studies,

00:36:01 ◼   ► would have been the show notes.

00:36:03 ◼   ► And then a more recent publication seems to confirm this

00:36:05 ◼   ► and suggests that reinfection has a similar severity

00:36:06 ◼   ► to the first infection, not worse.

00:36:08 ◼   ► Related, "COVID does not interfere with the immune system

00:36:10 ◼   ► to make subsequent infections worse.

00:36:11 ◼   ► This famously occurs with dengue and likely Zika

00:36:14 ◼   ► through a mechanism called antibody dependent enhancement.

00:36:17 ◼   ► There's no evidence that this occurs with COVID."

00:36:19 ◼   ► Selfishly, I thought this was fascinating.

00:36:21 ◼   ► Keith had commented that if Michaela had been vaccinated

00:36:24 ◼   ► in the last three months, which again,

00:36:25 ◼   ► she was first week in January and we got sick,

00:36:28 ◼   ► what, like two, three weeks ago,

00:36:30 ◼   ► then her antibody levels are likely to be high enough

00:36:32 ◼   ► to prevent infection, and we tested her a handful of times

00:36:35 ◼   ► and she was negative every time.

00:36:37 ◼   ► And then John started sprinkling the links,

00:36:40 ◼   ► which we'll put in the show notes,

00:36:40 ◼   ► to this study that you were referring to

00:36:43 ◼   ► just a moment ago, John, and in a subsequent email to me,

00:36:45 ◼   ► Keith wrote, "I would add that there's a study

00:36:47 ◼   ► "that seems to show worse outcomes on reinfection,"

00:36:49 ◼   ► which I think John may be referring to.

00:36:51 ◼   ► This is a veteran study published late last year,

00:36:53 ◼   ► and it did indeed get a lot of attention.

00:36:55 ◼   ► It is a good paper, and there are no obvious massive flaws.

00:36:57 ◼   ► However, no other publication has shown this,

00:36:59 ◼   ► and most have shown the opposite.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Plus, it somewhat flies in the face of basic immunology

00:37:03 ◼   ► that the immune system learns what infects it

00:37:05 ◼   ► so that it is prepared for future infections.

00:37:08 ◼   ► The study has received some level of criticism

00:37:10 ◼   ► that the study is based to older white males.

00:37:12 ◼   ► Personally, I think there's something odd

00:37:14 ◼   ► about the selection criteria,

00:37:15 ◼   ► i.e. who goes into the control group and who doesn't,

00:37:17 ◼   ► that makes me suspect that there's an underlying bias

00:37:19 ◼   ► that screws things up.

00:37:20 ◼   ► Or perhaps the study is correct,

00:37:22 ◼   ► and old white dudes are getting some payback,

00:37:25 ◼   ► which I thought was quite funny.

00:37:26 ◼   ► So thank you to Keith.

00:37:27 ◼   ► There was a lot more, a lot more that Keith wrote

00:37:29 ◼   ► that I, again, found utterly fascinating,

00:37:31 ◼   ► but that's the TLDR,

00:37:32 ◼   ► which I also thought was very, very interesting.

00:37:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, and part of the people writing about

00:37:37 ◼   ► and trying to study the idea of it

00:37:39 ◼   ► messing with your immune system is the idea

00:37:41 ◼   ► that if subsequent infections get worse and not better,

00:37:43 ◼   ► that flies in the face of what you would expect,

00:37:45 ◼   ► And it only happens in infections that do actually attack your immune system in some

00:37:50 ◼   ► way.

00:37:51 ◼   ► I mentioned measles last time as another example here.

00:37:54 ◼   ► So that's why people study these things.

00:37:55 ◼   ► And that's why when someone does a study, someone follows up on it and tries to figure

00:37:58 ◼   ► out more.

00:37:59 ◼   ► So every day hopefully we're making progress.

00:38:03 ◼   ► But I think it is worth occasionally dipping your toe back into the updated information

00:38:09 ◼   ► on whatever your trusted source is.

00:38:11 ◼   ► not a newspaper, but the big health systems like the CDC in the US or whatever tend to

00:38:17 ◼   ► take a while to get on board, as we saw during the initial wave of COVID. Maybe CDC's advice

00:38:22 ◼   ► lagged behind the best thinking by a significant amount, and maybe is occasionally politically

00:38:27 ◼   ► motivated, which is not great, but wherever you decide to check things out, it's a good

00:38:32 ◼   ► idea to occasionally check back in and see how things have changed.

00:38:35 ◼   ► Well, it's also, you know, quote, "COVID is not just one virus." Like, we've had so many variants

00:38:41 ◼   ► that have become dominant at different times throughout this pandemic that, you know,

00:38:46 ◼   ► whatever variant you get now, you know, you might have different responses to it because it's

00:38:52 ◼   ► actually a different virus than the one you got two years ago. Like, it's not, this is not a,

00:38:57 ◼   ► you know, stationary target that we're talking about here. The virus is also evolving,

00:39:01 ◼   ► conditions are also changing, treatments are changing, people have or don't have vaccines,

00:39:07 ◼   ► and different timings on that, different vaccines they could have gotten, different drugs they

00:39:11 ◼   ► might have taken, there's so many variables here. So yeah, the way to stay on top of things

00:39:18 ◼   ► like this is to be willing to change your mind when new information becomes available.

00:39:22 ◼   ► Yeah, a lot of the subsequent studies are on exactly that. They're like, "Well, we studied

00:39:27 ◼   ► this, and we're pretty happy that everyone was able to reproduce it and we understood

00:39:30 ◼   ► but that was for like the original variant. So now we have to do all those same studies again

00:39:35 ◼   ► with Delta, with Omicron, because they're basically redoing stuff to confirm, "Hey,

00:39:40 ◼   ► does this still apply with the current variant that's out now?" Just like they had to do with

00:39:44 ◼   ► all the science they did about COVID before vaccines, they had to redo all that with vaccines

00:39:49 ◼   ► as to how did the vaccines change, how did they affect it at all? And that's why, even if you

00:39:52 ◼   ► think everything is settled down and it's understood, when new variants come out, they

00:39:57 ◼   ► they have to redo a lot of that stuff

00:39:58 ◼   ► because they have to at the very least confirm

00:40:00 ◼   ► is this also true of whatever the popular variant is now?

00:40:03 ◼   ► So it's tough.

00:40:04 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:40:05 ◼   ► There are definitely worse people to get the advice from

00:40:08 ◼   ► than the three of us.

00:40:09 ◼   ► I don't know what I was thinking.

00:40:11 ◼   ► This is the danger of speaking extemporaneously.

00:40:14 ◼   ► - We will never tell you to take horse paste.

00:40:16 ◼   ► (laughing)

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00:41:59 ◼   ► Apparently it is the season, 'tis the season for iPhone leaks and rumors, but more leaks.

00:42:07 ◼   ► And we have a report from 9to5Mac, two reports actually, one about the iPhone 15 CAD drawings,

00:42:12 ◼   ► which allegedly reveal a larger 6.2 inch display and a dynamic island and USB-C. And then separately

00:42:19 ◼   ► they also have an exclusive first look at the special edition color for the

00:42:23 ◼   ► iPhone 15 Pro which I believe is coral if I'm not mistaken it's very okay there

00:42:30 ◼   ► you go they just need to pair it with orange and they'll be set and not many

00:42:33 ◼   ► of you understood that joke but power to you if you did go Hokies so anyways this

00:42:38 ◼   ► stands to reason that the iPhone 15 the not Pro is getting the dynamic island

00:42:42 ◼   ► this year getting a slightly larger display USB C is a surprise if that's

00:42:47 ◼   ► real but otherwise this basically makes sense to me.

00:42:50 ◼   ► - I think it is real because I feel like this is basically

00:42:52 ◼   ► iPhone announcement day.

00:42:54 ◼   ► iPhones just reliably leak.

00:42:56 ◼   ► I think this is earlier than normal but once the CAD drawings

00:43:01 ◼   ► as they always call them in these stories,

00:43:02 ◼   ► once that stuff comes out and it's close enough to the date

00:43:05 ◼   ► and enough sort of people corroborated and it starts

00:43:08 ◼   ► appearing around, it might as well be the day

00:43:11 ◼   ► of the iPhone announcement.

00:43:12 ◼   ► We talked about future iPhones all the time in the show

00:43:14 ◼   ► and usually we're just covering the rumors.

00:43:15 ◼   ► Here's what people think it might be, here's what it could

00:43:16 ◼   ► here's what it means technology-wise, right?

00:43:18 ◼   ► But at a certain point, all of that coalesces to be,

00:43:21 ◼   ► here's the new iPhone.

00:43:22 ◼   ► And then when they announce the new iPhone,

00:43:23 ◼   ► they're like, yep, that's exactly what we knew about,

00:43:25 ◼   ► you know, however long ago.

00:43:26 ◼   ► And so if you look at these CAD drawings,

00:43:28 ◼   ► it has eliminated a lot of the things that I was hoping for

00:43:32 ◼   ► and confirmed some things that, you know,

00:43:34 ◼   ► that I was expecting.

00:43:35 ◼   ► So the USB-C on everything, you know,

00:43:38 ◼   ► even though these are just CAD drawings,

00:43:39 ◼   ► we know a USB-C hole when we see it, right?

00:43:42 ◼   ► That's what this is.

00:43:43 ◼   ► I think I've talked about it in the past,

00:43:45 ◼   ► but my desire for less of a camera bump and my hope that the "parascope camera" lens

00:43:51 ◼   ► assembly on future iPhones would make this happen, this is not that year.

00:43:56 ◼   ► The only place there's going to be a periscope camera is in the Pro Max, and they're not

00:44:00 ◼   ► using it to make the bump smaller, they're just using it to get more zoom, right?

00:44:05 ◼   ► These drawings, they look kind of like the existing iPhone 13 or 14 Pro, but with more

00:44:11 ◼   ► rounded edges.

00:44:12 ◼   ► In the same case, it has more of a rounded edge,

00:44:15 ◼   ► it's flat sides, but a little bit more of a rounded edge,

00:44:17 ◼   ► and the pros apparently have a titanium frame,

00:44:18 ◼   ► which will be cool from a materials finish point of view,

00:44:21 ◼   ► if that's even true.

00:44:22 ◼   ► But otherwise, if you look at the CAD drawings,

00:44:26 ◼   ► they look a lot like a 14 Pro.

00:44:28 ◼   ► There's a massive three camera,

00:44:30 ◼   ► gigantic plateau with many, many levels,

00:44:33 ◼   ► and the regular iPhone has just the two cameras

00:44:35 ◼   ► with a smaller plateau.

00:44:37 ◼   ► They have not radically changed the design,

00:44:38 ◼   ► there's not a new camera hump,

00:44:40 ◼   ► they're not slimmer in the camera area,

00:44:42 ◼   ► They're just new iPhones,

00:44:46 ◼   ► which is not disappointing necessarily,

00:44:48 ◼   ► but I mean, I guess it increases my odds

00:44:50 ◼   ► 'cause this is not my phone year.

00:44:51 ◼   ► Next year is my phone year.

00:44:52 ◼   ► I guess it increases my odds if that's gonna happen.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Maybe it'll happen the next year, but I don't know.

00:44:56 ◼   ► I just kind of feel like we're stuck with this lump

00:44:58 ◼   ► for a while and it's kind of disappointing.

00:45:00 ◼   ► But the titanium will be exciting.

00:45:01 ◼   ► And the other thing in the story is,

00:45:03 ◼   ► oh, breaking down how it's gonna be between pro and non-pro

00:45:05 ◼   ► and how they're gonna differentiate.

00:45:07 ◼   ► They're already differentiating in this generation

00:45:09 ◼   ► with the good SOC and the pro

00:45:11 ◼   ► and like quote unquote last year's SOC in the non-pro,

00:45:15 ◼   ► that it seems like they're gonna continue to do that

00:45:17 ◼   ► and this MaxTech video that we'll link in the show,

00:45:19 ◼   ► it's had like a little slide that listed

00:45:22 ◼   ► what they thought would be the pro features

00:45:24 ◼   ► to get you to pony up for the fancy one.

00:45:26 ◼   ► ProMotion, I'm assuming that would be there.

00:45:29 ◼   ► They list the screen sizes as well,

00:45:30 ◼   ► but I assume those will be close.

00:45:32 ◼   ► Apparently the pro has a different size screen.

00:45:34 ◼   ► The 15 Pro has a different size screen slightly

00:45:36 ◼   ► than the 14 Pro, which whatever,

00:45:38 ◼   ► it could just be the screen manufacturer.

00:45:41 ◼   ► 2.5D glass, which is their way of saying,

00:45:44 ◼   ► kind of like on the Apple Watch,

00:45:45 ◼   ► if you look at it from the side,

00:45:47 ◼   ► the glass bulges out a little bit,

00:45:49 ◼   ► which seems wild to me,

00:45:50 ◼   ► and you can't really see in these CAD drawings,

00:45:52 ◼   ► 'cause the CAD drawings are just of the case,

00:45:54 ◼   ► but wouldn't you want the glass of your phone

00:45:56 ◼   ► not to stick out past the edge?

00:45:58 ◼   ► That's what phone cases do.

00:46:00 ◼   ► But on the other hand, kind of like the watch glass,

00:46:03 ◼   ► maybe it does that because it's thicker,

00:46:05 ◼   ► but on the other other hand,

00:46:06 ◼   ► really thick glass would make your finger

00:46:07 ◼   ► not feel like it's touching the things

00:46:09 ◼   ► under the screen as well.

00:46:10 ◼   ► So I don't know what to make of that, but I'm just reading out what's here.

00:46:14 ◼   ► Thinner bezels, if you can even tell that without your calipers out.

00:46:18 ◼   ► Titanium frame, solid state buttons, which we talked about in the past, which is wacky.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Periscope lens on the Pro Max model, the A17, which the regular iPhone 15 won't have presumably,

00:46:27 ◼   ► 8 gigs of RAM, Wi-Fi 6E, and Thunderbolt 3.

00:46:32 ◼   ► So the rumor is that the plain iPhone 15 has a USB-C shaped hole, but it is not Thunderbolt.

00:46:37 ◼   ► The rumor was that it's USB 2 speeds, which I guess would definitely be an Apple thing

00:46:43 ◼   ► to do, right?

00:46:44 ◼   ► Put USB-C on the iPhone and not increase the transfer speed.

00:46:46 ◼   ► But the rumor is that the Pro has a USB-C H-shaped hole that does Thunderbolt 3, which

00:46:51 ◼   ► would be a welcome improvement.

00:46:52 ◼   ► So that's actually a lot of advantages for the Pro, mostly achieved by making the non-Pro

00:46:58 ◼   ► crappier, I guess.

00:47:01 ◼   ► But anyway, if you're wondering what the iPhone 15 is going to be, at this point I feel pretty

00:47:05 ◼   ► confident saying that if you follow this Lincoln 9 to 5 Mac and look at the pictures, the only

00:47:09 ◼   ► things you don't know are the things nobody ever knows.

00:47:11 ◼   ► What are they going to call the color?

00:47:12 ◼   ► What are the new colors going to be?

00:47:13 ◼   ► What are the new finishes going to be?

00:47:14 ◼   ► What are the exact prices going to be?

00:47:15 ◼   ► All that stuff basically doesn't leak because you don't need thousands and thousands of

00:47:20 ◼   ► people to know it.

00:47:22 ◼   ► But because you need to manufacture so many of these things and because they're probably

00:47:24 ◼   ► going to start manufacturing them soon, this stuff can and will leak.

00:47:28 ◼   ► And so when we watch these iPhone keynotes, it's like the only thing we're finding out

00:47:31 ◼   ► is seeing the Apple promo videos

00:47:35 ◼   ► and seeing what they're gonna call that coral color.

00:47:38 ◼   ► - This makes me very, very happy overall

00:47:41 ◼   ► because here's the thing, all the things that we don't know,

00:47:44 ◼   ► you know, and there's so many,

00:47:46 ◼   ► every year there's usually some new camera feature

00:47:49 ◼   ► that the new hardware enables

00:47:51 ◼   ► that's only available on the newest phone,

00:47:52 ◼   ► and so there's gonna be some cool camera feature.

00:47:54 ◼   ► We don't know the details about the cameras really

00:47:56 ◼   ► to any degree of credibility.

00:47:58 ◼   ► How good is, if they're gonna do a periscope thing,

00:48:01 ◼   ► How good is that gonna be for the optical zoom or whatever?

00:48:04 ◼   ► How zoomed in is it gonna be?

00:48:06 ◼   ► How compromised is that camera going to be

00:48:09 ◼   ► relative to the One X camera?

00:48:11 ◼   ► There's so many details like that,

00:48:12 ◼   ► but for me, they had me at USBC.

00:48:14 ◼   ► They could change nothing else.

00:48:16 ◼   ► They could make it just switch to USBC charging

00:48:19 ◼   ► and I'd be like sold and I'd buy it instantly.

00:48:21 ◼   ► And to me, the two things I'm most excited about

00:48:24 ◼   ► are USBC, number one, by a mile,

00:48:27 ◼   ► and then a distant number two, titanium.

00:48:30 ◼   ► because ultimately I'm pretty happy with my,

00:48:34 ◼   ► what are we on, 14?

00:48:35 ◼   ► With my 14 Pro. (laughs)

00:48:38 ◼   ► Except it's really frickin' heavy.

00:48:40 ◼   ► And it's not like a deal breaker.

00:48:43 ◼   ► I do wish it was smaller, but I really wish it was lighter.

00:48:47 ◼   ► And it's pretty hard to make a modern smartphone lighter

00:48:51 ◼   ► without giving up a lot of battery life,

00:48:53 ◼   ► 'cause batteries are pretty heavy.

00:48:55 ◼   ► And one of the ways they can do it

00:48:57 ◼   ► is they can switch from steel for the outer rim,

00:48:59 ◼   ► which there is no reason to have that,

00:49:02 ◼   ► they can switch to a lighter metal

00:49:04 ◼   ► and titanium is a great option.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And I was like, we see these renders here,

00:49:08 ◼   ► but remember a few days ago,

00:49:10 ◼   ► somebody actually posted like a leaked alleged photo

00:49:13 ◼   ► of the case.

00:49:14 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah.

00:49:15 ◼   ► - And I saw that photo and I saw the kind of

00:49:18 ◼   ► horizontal grained brushed finish

00:49:21 ◼   ► and I was like, "Titanium!"

00:49:22 ◼   ► I was like, "I yelled it."

00:49:23 ◼   ► I was so happy.

00:49:25 ◼   ► You could tell instantly by looking at that,

00:49:27 ◼   ► that's almost certainly titanium

00:49:29 ◼   ► And I was so happy to see that.

00:49:32 ◼   ► - I do wonder if that's an unfinished model,

00:49:34 ◼   ► you know what I mean though?

00:49:35 ◼   ► Like they haven't put the finish on it?

00:49:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh yeah, we don't know

00:49:38 ◼   ► what the final finish will be.

00:49:39 ◼   ► It looked like brushed finish titanium,

00:49:42 ◼   ► and it wouldn't surprise me if that is the final finish.

00:49:44 ◼   ► - I wish they would sell one that looked like that,

00:49:46 ◼   ► like the look would be brushed unfinished titanium,

00:49:48 ◼   ► but I have a feeling they're not going to.

00:49:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I mean, I can't even tell you

00:49:51 ◼   ► what the outside of mine looks like,

00:49:52 ◼   ► 'cause it's in a case all the time,

00:49:53 ◼   ► because these are too big to hold.

00:49:55 ◼   ► - No, no, you just want it to be lighter.

00:49:56 ◼   ► If you look at the titanium watches,

00:49:59 ◼   ► they have also not looked like unfinished titanium.

00:50:01 ◼   ► They've always kind of had a uniform matte

00:50:04 ◼   ► kind of thing going on.

00:50:05 ◼   ► I'm not sure what that finish is, but it's--

00:50:06 ◼   ► - Well, no, it's interesting.

00:50:08 ◼   ► So the Ultra, which is titanium,

00:50:10 ◼   ► basically has like a uniform sandblasted look to it.

00:50:13 ◼   ► There is no grain on the Ultra,

00:50:16 ◼   ► whereas the previous series up to seven editions

00:50:20 ◼   ► that were titanium have vertical or horizontal graining,

00:50:24 ◼   ► and it looks really nice.

00:50:26 ◼   ► This is, I mean, I still,

00:50:28 ◼   ► My daily driver, Apple Watch, is still a Series 7

00:50:31 ◼   ► because I like titanium so much,

00:50:34 ◼   ► and they took it away with the Series 8.

00:50:36 ◼   ► Again, I really hope they bring this back with the Series 9.

00:50:38 ◼   ► That's like my one wish for the Apple Watch Series 9.

00:50:42 ◼   ► My biggest wish is bring back titanium,

00:50:44 ◼   ► and then my second biggest wish is things like

00:50:46 ◼   ► make the software better, but that's a different story

00:50:49 ◼   ► for a different day, but yeah.

00:50:50 ◼   ► So iPhone 15 rumors, thumbs up from me so far.

00:50:54 ◼   ► I don't have a dire need for USB-C in terms of travel,

00:50:59 ◼   ► which I think is when most people would be interested in it

00:51:02 ◼   ► because I do love my little docking base thing

00:51:05 ◼   ► that I talked about many moons ago.

00:51:07 ◼   ► But I will tell you that we have a single USB-C

00:51:11 ◼   ► Apple charging cable strung from the wall through the couch,

00:51:15 ◼   ► so it's basically available to whoever's sitting

00:51:18 ◼   ► on the couch at the time.

00:51:19 ◼   ► And you know what's great about that is it can charge

00:51:21 ◼   ► Aaron's computer.

00:51:23 ◼   ► It can charge my computer, it can charge the kid iPad,

00:51:26 ◼   ► it can charge my iPad, but you know what it can't

00:51:29 ◼   ► friggin' charge?

00:51:31 ◼   ► My stupid phone.

00:51:32 ◼   ► I would love it.

00:51:33 ◼   ► I mean, I would love to have Thunderbolt in a Pro phone,

00:51:36 ◼   ► but even leaving that aside,

00:51:37 ◼   ► I think this is what you were saying a minute ago, Marco,

00:51:39 ◼   ► like, just give me the connector.

00:51:41 ◼   ► I don't even care if it's USB 2.0 speeds for the most part.

00:51:44 ◼   ► Just give me the damn connector.

00:51:46 ◼   ► And so I can sit on the couch and use the cable

00:51:49 ◼   ► that's right there and actually charge the phone.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Yes, please. I'll take two.

00:51:54 ◼   ► I can only hope.

00:51:56 ◼   ► There was a very interesting release from Mark Gurman this week.

00:52:01 ◼   ► Gurman says that Apple has made major progress on a no-prick blood glucose tracking for its watch.

00:52:09 ◼   ► Apple Inc. has a moonshot-style project underway that dates back to the Steve Jobs era.

00:52:13 ◼   ► Non-invasive and continuous blood glucose monitoring.

00:52:16 ◼   ► The goal of this secret endeavor, dubbed E5,

00:52:18 ◼   ► is to measure how much glucose is in somebody's body

00:52:20 ◼   ► without needing to prick the skin for blood.

00:52:24 ◼   ► After hitting major milestones recently,

00:52:25 ◼   ► the company now believes it could eventually

00:52:28 ◼   ► bring glucose monitoring to market,

00:52:30 ◼   ► according to people familiar with the effort.

00:52:31 ◼   ► I'll be the first to tell you

00:52:32 ◼   ► I don't know very much about all of this,

00:52:34 ◼   ► but my limited understanding is,

00:52:36 ◼   ► and please, one of you jump in whenever you're ready,

00:52:38 ◼   ► is that for those of us who are diabetic,

00:52:41 ◼   ► you need to know what the status of your blood glucose is.

00:52:45 ◼   ► And to do that is kind of a pain,

00:52:47 ◼   ► and there are these continuous monitors that you can get,

00:52:50 ◼   ► but I guess they're very complicated,

00:52:52 ◼   ► and they don't work very well,

00:52:53 ◼   ► and then people will like hack them.

00:52:54 ◼   ► Didn't, what's the guy from Microsoft,

00:52:56 ◼   ► whose name is escaping me right now,

00:52:57 ◼   ► that's done a lot of this.

00:52:58 ◼   ► - Paul Allen?

00:52:59 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:53:01 ◼   ► - He's dead?

00:53:02 ◼   ► - No.

00:53:03 ◼   ► - Paul Allen was dead, right?

00:53:04 ◼   ► - No, I didn't think he was.

00:53:05 ◼   ► - Is he?

00:53:05 ◼   ► - Now I gotta look, now we gotta derail everything.

00:53:08 ◼   ► No, the programmer guy, yes, he died in 2018.

00:53:11 ◼   ► - He died in 2018, yeah.

00:53:13 ◼   ► Oh, wow, I didn't know that.

00:53:14 ◼   ► I think I can't say something.

00:53:16 ◼   ► - No, that's too bad.

00:53:17 ◼   ► - Anyways, no, the developer guy,

00:53:19 ◼   ► oh gosh, I'm so mad that I can't think of his name.

00:53:21 ◼   ► - The developer guy, Raymond Chen?

00:53:23 ◼   ► Hanselman, Scott Hanselman?

00:53:24 ◼   ► - Yes, thank you, Hanselman, that's who I'm thinking of.

00:53:27 ◼   ► - I would not have pegged him as the Microsoft guy.

00:53:29 ◼   ► All right.

00:53:30 ◼   ► - Well, he is at Microsoft.

00:53:31 ◼   ► - I know, I get it.

00:53:32 ◼   ► Yeah, you're right, he's a guy at Microsoft.

00:53:35 ◼   ► - Anyway, this is going right off the rails,

00:53:38 ◼   ► and I'm pretty sure it's my fault,

00:53:39 ◼   ► and I'm not the sick one.

00:53:41 ◼   ► But anyways, I believe that he is diabetic

00:53:44 ◼   ► something along those lines and has done a lot of stuff with regard to continuous blood

00:53:48 ◼   ► glucose monitoring. And I guess there's like a whole hobby in not even industry but like

00:53:52 ◼   ► a grassroots thing where people will figure out how to hack like existing blood glucose

00:53:59 ◼   ► monitors to make them work way better and something like that. So all of that is to

00:54:03 ◼   ► say my very limited, mostly ignorant understanding is this is a big frickin' deal. And I can

00:54:11 ◼   ► only imagine how amazing this would be if I were diabetic to have something like this.

00:54:14 ◼   ► Well, the good news is you're now 40% more likely to be diabetic.

00:54:17 ◼   ► Why? Because COVID?

00:54:19 ◼   ► Yeah. This is a March 31st, 2022 story, so I'm sure it's changed since then. But anyway,

00:54:24 ◼   ► lots of people… Again, it's the question, as I was saying before. So, they do these studies,

00:54:28 ◼   ► and it says, you know, people who had COVID-19 were 40% more likely to develop diabetes up to

00:54:32 ◼   ► a year later. But then it's like, okay, but is that just because they went to the doctor?

00:54:36 ◼   ► Right? Because they had… they're getting diagnosed because they made a trip they wouldn't

00:54:40 ◼   ► normally taken to the doctor and so now it's discovered and it would have been there anyway

00:54:44 ◼   ► so it's hard to tell. I'm just making a joke. But anyway, I think that what corrects that is like

00:54:48 ◼   ► 10% of the US adult population is diabetic or something. It's not a rare condition, which is why

00:54:54 ◼   ► this story, which by the way as the you know the Germin article notes, this project has been known

00:55:00 ◼   ► outside of Apple as a rumor of course because Apple has been confirming this stuff for just

00:55:04 ◼   ► a long long time and it's kind of like saying yeah we're working on perpetual motion or you know

00:55:09 ◼   ► cold fusion or whatever. It's a thing that if you were to find a way to do it, it is

00:55:14 ◼   ► a big money maker and also it would have a big effect on people's lives. It doesn't sound

00:55:19 ◼   ► like it's a big deal. It's like, "Oh, what's the big deal? You prick your finger, blah,

00:55:21 ◼   ► blah, blah." Imagine if you had to do that every day, sometimes multiple times a day

00:55:25 ◼   ► to plan out how you're eating. It is painful and annoying and inconvenient and it really

00:55:31 ◼   ► messes with people's lives and it affects millions and millions of people. So if you

00:55:35 ◼   ► find a non-invasive way to do that, you can make a lot of people's lives better, which

00:55:39 ◼   ► means you can also make a lot of money.

00:55:41 ◼   ► And there's those things they have now that you sort of slap onto your skin that look

00:55:45 ◼   ► like little stickers, but they have little things that poke into your skin, and they're

00:55:48 ◼   ► not painful, but they hook up to some other meter.

00:55:52 ◼   ► Everyone's always trying to crack this nut, because there's a huge addressable market,

00:55:55 ◼   ► it is a big problem, and current solutions are seemingly barbaric.

00:55:59 ◼   ► I mean, pricking your finger with a piece of metal and putting a drop of blood onto

00:56:02 ◼   ► to a strip of paper is stone age technology from a medical perspective.

00:56:09 ◼   ► If your Apple watch could just tell you, "Boy, wouldn't that have been amazing?

00:56:13 ◼   ► Kind of like if you had a car that could drive itself while you sleep at the wheel, wouldn't

00:56:17 ◼   ► that be amazing?

00:56:18 ◼   ► That would be amazing!"

00:56:19 ◼   ► But also really hard to do.

00:56:21 ◼   ► So the fact that Apple is trying to tackle this, at first it probably seemed like, "Alright,

00:56:26 ◼   ► I get it.

00:56:27 ◼   ► That would make the world a better place.

00:56:28 ◼   ► It would make Apple a lot of money.

00:56:29 ◼   ► it's the intersection of liberal arts and technology,

00:56:31 ◼   ► the intersection of altruism and capitalism,

00:56:34 ◼   ► whatever you want to call it, kind of makes sense,

00:56:36 ◼   ► but why does Apple have to do this?

00:56:37 ◼   ► Apple's not a healthcare company, right?

00:56:39 ◼   ► But on the other hand, as technology advances,

00:56:43 ◼   ► this problem, like the way you're trying

00:56:44 ◼   ► to solve this problem, it's like, okay,

00:56:46 ◼   ► well we need a bunch of sensors

00:56:49 ◼   ► that are attached to your body with a microprocessor

00:56:51 ◼   ► to interpret the results, because it's not straightforward.

00:56:53 ◼   ► Like it's not like, oh, we'll just, you know,

00:56:55 ◼   ► take this measurement and if it's above this value,

00:56:57 ◼   ► It's complicated.

00:56:59 ◼   ► The technology they're talking about, the rumors,

00:57:01 ◼   ► is they fire a bunch of tiny lasers

00:57:04 ◼   ► into your skin and everything,

00:57:05 ◼   ► and look at the scatter back,

00:57:07 ◼   ► and analyze it with this complicated,

00:57:09 ◼   ► like you need a little computer.

00:57:11 ◼   ► And if the idea is you need to have sensors

00:57:14 ◼   ► attached to your skin with a powerful little computer

00:57:16 ◼   ► that people are willing to wear,

00:57:17 ◼   ► suddenly you're like, hmm,

00:57:19 ◼   ► Apple seems actually a pretty good fit for this.

00:57:21 ◼   ► So if Apple can ever figure it out,

00:57:24 ◼   ► they're as well positioned as anybody

00:57:26 ◼   ► to solve this problem in a way that, as they would say,

00:57:30 ◼   ► synergizes with their business.

00:57:31 ◼   ► They're already selling Apple Watches.

00:57:32 ◼   ► Apple Watches' primary purpose is already mostly for fitness

00:57:35 ◼   ► and health-related things.

00:57:37 ◼   ► Lots of people have this health problem.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Being able to sell them an Apple Watch

00:57:41 ◼   ► that would solve this problem,

00:57:42 ◼   ► boy, they would sell so many Apple Watches.

00:57:44 ◼   ► The one bad thing that Apple probably doesn't anticipate

00:57:46 ◼   ► is that if they actually solve this problem,

00:57:48 ◼   ► there will be immediate pressure for them

00:57:50 ◼   ► to sell Apple Watches for less money,

00:57:51 ◼   ► because it is unfair to sort of keep this technology,

00:57:55 ◼   ► you know, it's like, oh, it's Apple patented,

00:57:56 ◼   ► no one else can implement it, and blah, blah, blah,

00:57:59 ◼   ► which is terrible and all.

00:58:01 ◼   ► And the cheapest Apple Watch that has this feature

00:58:03 ◼   ► is like $400.

00:58:04 ◼   ► I mean, people will still pay it,

00:58:05 ◼   ► 'cause, you know, they'll find a way to pay it,

00:58:08 ◼   ► 'cause it's such a quality of life increase,

00:58:10 ◼   ► but it almost seems-- - It's cheaper than insulin.

00:58:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, yeah.

00:58:14 ◼   ► It almost seems ridiculous and unfair

00:58:16 ◼   ► that something that could improve so many people's lives

00:58:18 ◼   ► is under the control of a private company

00:58:20 ◼   ► that, for reasons unrelated to evil,

00:58:23 ◼   ► but just related to their market positioning,

00:58:25 ◼   ► doesn't sort of serve down market.

00:58:27 ◼   ► And even when, you know, you mentioned insulin thing,

00:58:29 ◼   ► like what was it, the person who made the insulin discovery

00:58:32 ◼   ► or got the patent for it or whatever,

00:58:34 ◼   ► intended it to be available for everybody

00:58:35 ◼   ► and never wanted it to be expensive.

00:58:37 ◼   ► But that person died and the rest of the people

00:58:40 ◼   ► took that ball and ran with it

00:58:41 ◼   ► and now insulin costs a bazillion dollars in the US

00:58:44 ◼   ► 'cause people found out that other people needed to live

00:58:46 ◼   ► and you can charge them a lot of money,

00:58:47 ◼   ► which is why healthcare should not be

00:58:48 ◼   ► a for-profit enterprise.

00:58:49 ◼   ► Anyway, I guess this is good to hear

00:58:53 ◼   ► oh progress is being made, but at this point,

00:58:56 ◼   ► this is like the original product, Titan.

00:58:58 ◼   ► At this point when I hear stories

00:58:59 ◼   ► about the blood glucose thing, I'm like,

00:59:01 ◼   ► okay, well, when you figure it out, let me know.

00:59:04 ◼   ► I'll just wait another decade here

00:59:05 ◼   ► because it's been going on for so long,

00:59:08 ◼   ► and so far we've got pretty much nothing to show for.

00:59:10 ◼   ► Like Apple does health stuff, and blood pressure,

00:59:13 ◼   ► and ECG or whatever, they do all these health things,

00:59:16 ◼   ► but not once has there been a whiff

00:59:18 ◼   ► of blood glucose anything from Apple.

00:59:20 ◼   ► So obviously they haven't figured it out yet.

00:59:22 ◼   ► So I'm rooting for them, but I really, you know,

00:59:26 ◼   ► I don't think it's a story until it's a story.

00:59:28 ◼   ► And until then it is a very long running money pit

00:59:33 ◼   ► for Apple that I think honestly has more promise

00:59:36 ◼   ► than Project Titan at this point.

00:59:37 ◼   ► - Oh far more.

00:59:39 ◼   ► - It's also been running longer than Project Titan

00:59:41 ◼   ► without results, so I don't know.

00:59:42 ◼   ► - I mean the thing is like other companies make cars

00:59:44 ◼   ► and they're pretty good, which we'll get to

00:59:45 ◼   ► a little bit later.

00:59:46 ◼   ► And so like, you know, it's fun,

00:59:49 ◼   ► like we don't need Apple to make a car.

00:59:51 ◼   ► No one has done this.

00:59:52 ◼   ► And you're right, if they can pull this off,

00:59:57 ◼   ► it's a massive deal.

00:59:58 ◼   ► And so that's why I think hearing even a rumor

01:00:02 ◼   ► from Mark Gurman that this might have made major progress

01:00:06 ◼   ► and that this might be able to become a product

01:00:08 ◼   ► at some point in the future, hearing news about this,

01:00:12 ◼   ► it's not quite on the same level,

01:00:13 ◼   ► but I think it's a similar kind of moonshot as fusion.

01:00:18 ◼   ► It's like, oh my God, when you hear news

01:00:20 ◼   ► that we've made progress, as we actually recently have,

01:00:23 ◼   ► made progress in the area of sustainable fusion energy.

01:00:26 ◼   ► Like that's the kind of moonshot this is.

01:00:28 ◼   ► It's like this is like--

01:00:30 ◼   ► - That would be curing diabetes.

01:00:31 ◼   ► I think it would categorize that.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I'm not just finding a better way to deal with it.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Curing it would be more of that type of,

01:00:36 ◼   ► or maybe curing cancer.

01:00:37 ◼   ► 'Cause and fusion, by the way,

01:00:39 ◼   ► so we don't get all the followup on that,

01:00:40 ◼   ► the progress on fusion,

01:00:41 ◼   ► the fusion naysayers are gonna write it

01:00:43 ◼   ► and tell us that it's not as close as you think,

01:00:45 ◼   ► 'cause that's the way fusion works.

01:00:46 ◼   ► - I didn't say it was close,

01:00:47 ◼   ► but I said they made progress, which is true.

01:00:48 ◼   ► And I think that's how this is.

01:00:50 ◼   ► - It's hard to tell when you're so far

01:00:52 ◼   ► from the finish line.

01:00:52 ◼   ► - I know, I know, but the point is people care a lot

01:00:55 ◼   ► even when small progress is made

01:00:57 ◼   ► because if we ever pull it off it's such a big deal.

01:01:00 ◼   ► That's how this is.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Any news on this front is a big deal

01:01:05 ◼   ► because if this thing ever actually is workable

01:01:07 ◼   ► as a real product, that's a huge deal.

01:01:10 ◼   ► None of us have diabetes, but my dog does.

01:01:13 ◼   ► And I actually have used on him

01:01:16 ◼   ► one of those continuous monitor things.

01:01:18 ◼   ► and you know, you mentioned, oh yeah, it doesn't hurt, well--

01:01:21 ◼   ► - But dogs don't understand though,

01:01:22 ◼   ► you can't explain to them.

01:01:23 ◼   ► - I know, but like, so here's the thing,

01:01:25 ◼   ► like what you're trying to sample,

01:01:28 ◼   ► and please, actual diabetics out there,

01:01:29 ◼   ► I apologize for if any of these details are wrong,

01:01:32 ◼   ► I only know it through my dog,

01:01:34 ◼   ► but what you're trying to sample is,

01:01:36 ◼   ► you're trying to figure out the curve

01:01:39 ◼   ► of your blood glucose level over time,

01:01:41 ◼   ► and you know, when you eat, that goes up

01:01:43 ◼   ► and then it comes down over time

01:01:44 ◼   ► as the effect of insulin comes in and everything,

01:01:47 ◼   ► And so when you just prick your finger

01:01:50 ◼   ► and get a little sample there,

01:01:52 ◼   ► you're sampling one point on a wave.

01:01:55 ◼   ► You might not necessarily know where on that wave you are.

01:01:59 ◼   ► So while the point sampling has clear value

01:02:03 ◼   ► over no information, continuous data is far more useful.

01:02:07 ◼   ► Way, way, way more useful.

01:02:09 ◼   ► Way more actionable, way more precise.

01:02:12 ◼   ► And in fact, I'm pretty sure,

01:02:14 ◼   ► I don't know the details of this so forgive me,

01:02:15 ◼   ► but I know that the diabetic human world

01:02:18 ◼   ► has long since largely moved to insulin pumps,

01:02:21 ◼   ► which kind of monitor stuff continuously

01:02:22 ◼   ► and give you the right amount of insulin

01:02:24 ◼   ► at any given time is how I understand it,

01:02:25 ◼   ► but instead of just one big shot,

01:02:27 ◼   ► whereas I have to give my dog just two big shots a day,

01:02:30 ◼   ► 'cause they don't have those for dogs,

01:02:31 ◼   ► and he's really small anyway, so it wouldn't even fit him.

01:02:33 ◼   ► But anyway, and yes, it's horrible

01:02:36 ◼   ► giving your dog insulin shots, it's heartbreaking.

01:02:37 ◼   ► They let you do it 'cause they let you do anything,

01:02:39 ◼   ► but God, it's heartbreaking for you,

01:02:40 ◼   ► 'cause you can't tell them why you're hurting them.

01:02:42 ◼   ► Oh God, I can't give them the carrot fast enough.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Like just, oh God, anyway.

01:02:46 ◼   ► So, it breaks my heart.

01:02:49 ◼   ► But anyway, so when we were first figuring out his diabetes,

01:02:53 ◼   ► we had one of those continuous monitor things.

01:02:55 ◼   ► And it's basically, it looks like,

01:02:56 ◼   ► it's like the size of like,

01:02:58 ◼   ► maybe like two half dollar coins stacked on each other.

01:03:01 ◼   ► But it has about a half inch needle

01:03:04 ◼   ► pointing straight out the back.

01:03:05 ◼   ► It's like sticking a thumbtack into your arm.

01:03:09 ◼   ► And it sits there and it stays there for like a week.

01:03:12 ◼   ► And then after a while, you know,

01:03:13 ◼   ► you gotta like change it and put a new one on it.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And they have these things for humans.

01:03:17 ◼   ► It's the exact same product for dogs.

01:03:19 ◼   ► I forget what it's called,

01:03:20 ◼   ► but it's the exact same product.

01:03:22 ◼   ► It's this Bluetooth thing,

01:03:23 ◼   ► and I was able to go on the app

01:03:24 ◼   ► and see his blood insulin or his blood glucose curve,

01:03:28 ◼   ► and see, okay, well, here's where he's peaking roughly,

01:03:30 ◼   ► so we'll give him the insulin here,

01:03:32 ◼   ► we'll measure it, and we'll see over time how it does,

01:03:34 ◼   ► and here's how it's gonna work,

01:03:35 ◼   ► here's when we need it, all that stuff.

01:03:38 ◼   ► So for diabetics, continuous monitoring is hugely valuable,

01:03:42 ◼   ► And if you can do it on a device that you're already buying

01:03:46 ◼   ► or that you might be buying for a combination

01:03:48 ◼   ► of other reasons, maybe you're buying it for fitness,

01:03:50 ◼   ► notifications, whatever it is you're buying on Apple Watch,

01:03:53 ◼   ► you already have it, then it's there.

01:03:55 ◼   ► And then additionally, there's a huge amount of value

01:03:58 ◼   ► for non-diabetics who would never have a reason

01:04:02 ◼   ► to get a prescription for the thing that you stick

01:04:04 ◼   ► in your arm and have continuous monitoring.

01:04:08 ◼   ► I personally would never, why would I get one of those?

01:04:12 ◼   ► I'm not diabetic, so I don't have any reason

01:04:14 ◼   ► to get one of those and to stick it on my arm

01:04:16 ◼   ► and have this needle sticking to my arm for a week.

01:04:19 ◼   ► But there's huge value in knowing those levels

01:04:23 ◼   ► if you're doing things like paying attention

01:04:24 ◼   ► to your nutrition or maybe trying to avoid

01:04:27 ◼   ► getting type two diabetes in the future

01:04:29 ◼   ► if you're kind of at risk for that,

01:04:31 ◼   ► if you're kind of on the border,

01:04:33 ◼   ► you can start making changes,

01:04:34 ◼   ► you can see what you have to do,

01:04:35 ◼   ► you can maybe see like, hey, you know what,

01:04:37 ◼   ► After I have this one kind of breakfast,

01:04:39 ◼   ► my glucose spike's really high.

01:04:41 ◼   ► Maybe I should think about changing that diet.

01:04:43 ◼   ► There's so much value there,

01:04:45 ◼   ► in the same way that right now the Apple Watch will,

01:04:48 ◼   ► there's settings that I believe that are on by default

01:04:51 ◼   ► where if you're in a super loud environment,

01:04:54 ◼   ► it will tell you, hey, you're above 90 decibels

01:04:57 ◼   ► for the last minute.

01:04:58 ◼   ► This could really hurt your hearing

01:04:59 ◼   ► if you do this all the time.

01:05:00 ◼   ► Everyday people can get that and see, huh,

01:05:02 ◼   ► that's interesting, maybe I shouldn't put my desk

01:05:05 ◼   ► right next to this jet engine.

01:05:07 ◼   ► In the same way, maybe they could have a future feature

01:05:10 ◼   ► where if you have some massive sugar bomb meal

01:05:14 ◼   ► and your blood glucose spikes way too high,

01:05:16 ◼   ► maybe it could tap you in the wrist and say,

01:05:18 ◼   ► hey, your blood sugar's really high right now.

01:05:20 ◼   ► Maybe consider having some fiber or something.

01:05:23 ◼   ► And so even if you can think,

01:05:26 ◼   ► not only would this be life-changing to diabetics probably,

01:05:30 ◼   ► but even just for everyone in the world,

01:05:32 ◼   ► they could build other health-conscious features around it.

01:05:36 ◼   ► And so there is just, and not to mention the fact

01:05:38 ◼   ► that even people, you know, people who aren't paying

01:05:41 ◼   ► attention can get kind of alerts in extreme cases like that.

01:05:44 ◼   ► But people who are paying attention, like,

01:05:46 ◼   ► I would love that because I care a lot about diet

01:05:49 ◼   ► and fitness these days and so I would love to know,

01:05:52 ◼   ► like, to set goals to be like, you know what,

01:05:54 ◼   ► I wanna make sure I'm not gonna, I'm not achieving,

01:05:57 ◼   ► or I'm not exceeding this range of glucose levels

01:06:00 ◼   ► in my day to day life and maybe, like,

01:06:02 ◼   ► maybe I would like to get an alert if I ever do

01:06:04 ◼   ► so I can make changes just for my own,

01:06:07 ◼   ► the same people track their sleep and stuff.

01:06:09 ◼   ► I wanna be able to track that kind of health as well.

01:06:11 ◼   ► So there are huge possible features and benefits

01:06:14 ◼   ► to this kind of thing if they can get it going.

01:06:16 ◼   ► A huge part of the Apple Watch is taking something

01:06:20 ◼   ► that used to be a specialized medical thing,

01:06:23 ◼   ► like the EKG for instance,

01:06:25 ◼   ► taking something like that and bring it to a device

01:06:28 ◼   ► that a lot of people are gonna just have

01:06:29 ◼   ► for other reasons anyway.

01:06:31 ◼   ► And then if they have a weird heart arrhythmia or something,

01:06:36 ◼   ► their watch can tell them,

01:06:37 ◼   ► "Hey, something's a little bit off."

01:06:39 ◼   ► And that is such massive value.

01:06:41 ◼   ► So you have the massive value for the people

01:06:43 ◼   ► who have certain conditions,

01:06:44 ◼   ► like the AFib detection is huge.

01:06:46 ◼   ► If you know anybody who has AFib or if you have AFib,

01:06:49 ◼   ► having the Apple Watch be able to track that

01:06:51 ◼   ► and tell you when you're in AFib is a pretty big deal.

01:06:55 ◼   ► But also it's a big deal for a whole bunch of other people

01:06:58 ◼   ► who don't know that this might be a problem for them,

01:07:01 ◼   ► and then if it starts becoming a problem for them.

01:07:03 ◼   ► Like one of the things I figured out, weirdly,

01:07:06 ◼   ► I know that this is gonna sound really crazy and stupid,

01:07:09 ◼   ► but I've had COVID twice, I think,

01:07:12 ◼   ► and both times I had COVID,

01:07:14 ◼   ► the day before I tested positive,

01:07:18 ◼   ► there was a point in the day,

01:07:19 ◼   ► and I was feeling crappy,

01:07:21 ◼   ► and the Apple Watch gave me that alert that says,

01:07:23 ◼   ► hey, your heart rate's a little bit high,

01:07:25 ◼   ► and you don't seem to be doing anything.

01:07:27 ◼   ► - Alarming.

01:07:28 ◼   ► - Both times I had COVID, that happened to me

01:07:30 ◼   ► the day before I tested positive.

01:07:32 ◼   ► And I've never got that alert any other time.

01:07:35 ◼   ► So it is telling me, hey, your body's, something's wrong.

01:07:39 ◼   ► Like something, like that kind of alert, that helps,

01:07:41 ◼   ► that is actionable for people.

01:07:43 ◼   ► That really has a pretty big benefit to people,

01:07:46 ◼   ► even who don't have whatever kind of certain conditions

01:07:50 ◼   ► might have them get some kind of medical device

01:07:51 ◼   ► in the first place.

01:07:52 ◼   ► So again, this is amazing for diabetics,

01:07:55 ◼   ► But it is not just limited to diabetics and benefit.

01:07:57 ◼   ► This could have huge benefits to everyone.

01:08:00 ◼   ► - Especially hypochondriacs, they love it.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the dark side of all these things

01:08:03 ◼   ► that sometimes, as Merlyn said,

01:08:05 ◼   ► having more data is not helpful,

01:08:06 ◼   ► especially with people who find it

01:08:08 ◼   ► kind of an attractive nuisance.

01:08:09 ◼   ► But in general, it's a net win to know this stuff.

01:08:11 ◼   ► In particular, especially if our healthcare system

01:08:13 ◼   ► wasn't barbaric and this could, for example,

01:08:15 ◼   ► funnel into your doctor, who is probably more qualified

01:08:18 ◼   ► to know if this is normal for your age and activity for you

01:08:24 ◼   ► or if there's something to be concerned about.

01:08:26 ◼   ► So it'd be great if that could be tied in for them,

01:08:29 ◼   ► not to just ask you how have you been feeling

01:08:30 ◼   ► or to look at your most recent measurements,

01:08:32 ◼   ► but to just, if you're doing continuous monitoring,

01:08:34 ◼   ► it would be great if they could just see that graph

01:08:36 ◼   ► over the past 30 days and say,

01:08:38 ◼   ► looks like you might be a diabetic,

01:08:40 ◼   ► or no, actually, you're fine, don't worry about this,

01:08:42 ◼   ► don't freak out when you see this number,

01:08:43 ◼   ► because for your age and what you ate at that meal,

01:08:46 ◼   ► this is actually fine,

01:08:47 ◼   ► and it's not a thing to be worried about,

01:08:49 ◼   ► because they know whether it's something

01:08:51 ◼   ► to be worried about or not,

01:08:52 ◼   ► whereas you're just looking at a number

01:08:53 ◼   ► saying that seems high on Google and that number shouldn't be that high maybe

01:08:56 ◼   ► I'm dying so it's tricky so don't get too calm that but the difficult thing

01:08:59 ◼   ► with the glucose monitoring I feel like is well it's not difficult for them but

01:09:04 ◼   ► like when you see the story it seems like what they're going for is the brass

01:09:07 ◼   ► ring of like continuous monitoring that you can use instead of breaking your

01:09:11 ◼   ► finger right that's what people want you know no more patch no more finger pricks

01:09:14 ◼   ► just an Apple non-invasive Apple watch the Holy Grail but for all the other

01:09:19 ◼   ► stuff they've done like a fib detection stuff they're really cautious they're

01:09:22 ◼   ► like well took the words right out of my mouth I was gonna bring this up as well

01:09:25 ◼   ► if you if you're if something's really out of whack we'll be like hey we think

01:09:30 ◼   ► this is probably not great but that's not what you want from glucose monitoring

01:09:32 ◼   ► I mean it would be it's better than nothing that's what I'm saying it's

01:09:35 ◼   ► better than nothing we don't have to go for get the brass ring if it just tells

01:09:38 ◼   ► you oh you might you might have missed a shot or something and things are really

01:09:42 ◼   ► bad and it alerts you that is useful but you really don't want that to be the

01:09:46 ◼   ► only functionality you want to be able to have the watch let you know what you

01:09:51 ◼   ► would find out from doing your testing or continuous monitoring with a patch or pricking

01:09:55 ◼   ► your finger or whatever.

01:09:56 ◼   ► So you don't get into the bad situations.

01:09:58 ◼   ► That's what you want.

01:09:59 ◼   ► You want to avoid the extremes.

01:10:00 ◼   ► But with the health measurement stuff, Apple's been so cautious because it's really difficult

01:10:04 ◼   ► to be sure.

01:10:06 ◼   ► And with something like this where someone is making essentially a life or death decision

01:10:09 ◼   ► about weather and how much insulin they should take, it's not like, "Oh, if I get it wrong,

01:10:13 ◼   ► nothing bad will happen."

01:10:14 ◼   ► No, bad things can happen.

01:10:15 ◼   ► And if the pitch is kind of like self-driving cars, if the pitch is this car will drive

01:10:19 ◼   ► of itself and you can go to sleep,

01:10:20 ◼   ► that boy, that better be true.

01:10:22 ◼   ► Because the consequences of it's not are really bad.

01:10:24 ◼   ► And so if they say, oh no, you don't need to measure

01:10:27 ◼   ► with anything else except for the Apple Watch,

01:10:29 ◼   ► they better really have solved that problem.

01:10:32 ◼   ► You know, and again, that doesn't necessarily

01:10:33 ◼   ► have to be the pitch.

01:10:34 ◼   ► They could say, now we have glucose monitoring

01:10:36 ◼   ► the Apple Watch and it will give you an alert

01:10:38 ◼   ► if things are way out of bounds,

01:10:39 ◼   ► but you still have to test normally,

01:10:40 ◼   ► but it's just an insurance mechanism.

01:10:41 ◼   ► That's still useful, still give that a thumbs up.

01:10:43 ◼   ► But when these stories come out,

01:10:44 ◼   ► it's people dreaming that they won't have to do

01:10:46 ◼   ► whatever uncomfortable thing they're doing now.

01:10:49 ◼   ► And the crossing the bar for that, it's really high.

01:10:53 ◼   ► 'Cause you have to really be sure

01:10:54 ◼   ► it is literally life and death for millions of people.

01:10:57 ◼   ► It can't be guesswork and if your watch crashes,

01:11:00 ◼   ► there are big consequences and if it gets it wrong,

01:11:02 ◼   ► there are big consequences.

01:11:04 ◼   ► And I don't know how they're gonna handle it.

01:11:06 ◼   ► Kind of like the car, it's one of those type of things

01:11:08 ◼   ► where in general, Apple doesn't have products

01:11:10 ◼   ► where if they get it wrong, people die in short order.

01:11:13 ◼   ► That's true of the car and that's kind of true

01:11:15 ◼   ► of complete replacement glucose monitoring

01:11:18 ◼   ► if that is indeed what they're going after.

01:11:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was thinking about,

01:11:22 ◼   ► and then you brought it up,

01:11:23 ◼   ► when they did the EKG thing,

01:11:24 ◼   ► they were very quick to say,

01:11:25 ◼   ► this isn't, this is just a hint, this is just a hint.

01:11:28 ◼   ► And when they did the ovulation tracking

01:11:31 ◼   ► and prediction and whatnot,

01:11:32 ◼   ► oh, well, we're just giving you something else

01:11:34 ◼   ► to think about, you know,

01:11:35 ◼   ► you should still do your own thing,

01:11:37 ◼   ► just something to consider.

01:11:38 ◼   ► And when they, with the AFib stuff,

01:11:41 ◼   ► we don't know if you're having a heart attack,

01:11:43 ◼   ► we don't know that, we just know,

01:11:45 ◼   ► we have an idea about AFib.

01:11:46 ◼   ► and they pump the brakes on everything, which makes sense.

01:11:50 ◼   ► I don't begrudge them, having pumped the brakes,

01:11:52 ◼   ► but yeah, this is, like you said,

01:11:54 ◼   ► it is do or die, literally.

01:11:56 ◼   ► So they can't pump the brakes on this

01:11:59 ◼   ► if they are trying to get that brass ring,

01:12:01 ◼   ► as you referred to it.

01:12:02 ◼   ► And I don't know, I'm not sure how they're gonna handle this

01:12:04 ◼   ► and if I were diabetic, well, I was gonna say,

01:12:08 ◼   ► I don't know if I would trust an Apple Watch to this,

01:12:10 ◼   ► but I would imagine I'd be so miserable

01:12:12 ◼   ► with what I had been doing for years and years

01:12:13 ◼   ► that anything would pee like a cold glass of water in hell.

01:12:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, even if it doesn't solve the problem entirely,

01:12:18 ◼   ► if you just have to have one fewer prick per day

01:12:22 ◼   ► or three fewer per week, still that's an improvement.

01:12:26 ◼   ► It's just a question of what are they

01:12:27 ◼   ► actually able to achieve.

01:12:28 ◼   ► I have no doubt that they will not,

01:12:30 ◼   ► they're only going to announce

01:12:32 ◼   ► what they can actually achieve.

01:12:33 ◼   ► They're not going to over-promise like some other people

01:12:36 ◼   ► you may be familiar with related to self-driving cars.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Whatever they can do, they've been so conservative, right?

01:12:41 ◼   ► They've been so sort of underselling what they've done.

01:12:43 ◼   ► So if they're not able to solve the whole problem,

01:12:46 ◼   ► have full faith that they will not claim to have solved the whole problem. They just say

01:12:48 ◼   ► here's what it can do, here's what it can't do, it can improve your life but you're still going

01:12:52 ◼   ► to have to use the other more invasive methods to supplement your Apple Watch. It will just

01:12:58 ◼   ► maybe help you skip some of those or increase the granularity of the sampling or whatever.

01:13:03 ◼   ► Any improvement is good but this story is always so simplified in its rumor form which is like

01:13:08 ◼   ► they're gonna solve it and you know it's great to think that before they actually announce anything

01:13:11 ◼   ► But as the story notes, this story is so old

01:13:14 ◼   ► that it was around when Steve Jobs

01:13:15 ◼   ► was still running the company.

01:13:16 ◼   ► So it's taken a long time.

01:13:18 ◼   ► - Right.

01:13:19 ◼   ► Oh, blood oxygen was the other thing

01:13:22 ◼   ► I couldn't think of a second ago.

01:13:23 ◼   ► Blood oxygen, they were also like,

01:13:24 ◼   ► "We're not telling you if you have COVID or not.

01:13:25 ◼   ► We're just letting you know."

01:13:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, these numbers may not be accurate, accurate,

01:13:29 ◼   ► but if they're really out of whack,

01:13:30 ◼   ► you might say, "Hey, maybe look into this."

01:13:34 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:13:35 ◼   ► - And blood oxygen, the official thing

01:13:36 ◼   ► they use that in hospitals is very similar to an Apple Watch.

01:13:39 ◼   ► So it's not even that they're far from,

01:13:41 ◼   ► Like that is not new technology.

01:13:42 ◼   ► Shining a light through your skin,

01:13:44 ◼   ► as long as your skin is white,

01:13:45 ◼   ► shining a light through your skin

01:13:46 ◼   ► and getting a blood oxygenation measurement

01:13:48 ◼   ► is long established technology.

01:13:50 ◼   ► And even on that, they're like,

01:13:51 ◼   ► "Well, we do have a light and we do shine it into your skin,

01:13:53 ◼   ► "but we're not gonna make lots of promises

01:13:55 ◼   ► "because it is your wrist and not your fingertip

01:13:56 ◼   ► "and yada yada."

01:13:58 ◼   ► - Thanks to our sponsors this week,

01:14:00 ◼   ► Memberful and the Tech Meme Ride Home podcast.

01:14:03 ◼   ► And thanks to our members who support us directly.

01:14:05 ◼   ► You can join us at ATP.FM/JOIN.

01:14:08 ◼   ► We will talk to you next week.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

01:14:18 ◼   ► 'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:14:24 ◼   ► John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:14:29 ◼   ► 'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:14:34 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:14:39 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:14:48 ◼   ► So that's Kasey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:14:52 ◼   ► Auntie Marco Armin S-I-R-A-C

01:14:57 ◼   ► U-S-A-C-R-A-C-Uza

01:15:00 ◼   ► It's accidental (It's accidental)

01:15:03 ◼   ► They didn't mean to, accidental (Accidental)

01:15:08 ◼   ► ♪ Can't protect my cast so long ♪

01:15:12 ◼   ► - I see something fascinating in the show notes

01:15:17 ◼   ► for the after show.

01:15:18 ◼   ► It reads as follows, "Marco drove a Rivian."

01:15:23 ◼   ► Tell me everything.

01:15:26 ◼   ► - But why would he need to do that?

01:15:27 ◼   ► He's already got a perfectly good vehicle

01:15:30 ◼   ► for driving on the sand.

01:15:31 ◼   ► Why would he ever even look at another one?

01:15:33 ◼   ► It performs beautifully, it solves his problem entirely.

01:15:36 ◼   ► he even gave this car a watch.

01:15:38 ◼   ► - Are we really going there?

01:15:39 ◼   ► I was gonna be gentle on you, Marco,

01:15:41 ◼   ► but I am here for laughing about

01:15:44 ◼   ► the poorly constructed British car,

01:15:46 ◼   ► if that's what we wanna do.

01:15:46 ◼   ► - Well, I would love to know the order of events.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Did the car rebel when it heard you were straying,

01:15:50 ◼   ► or did you stray when it rebelled?

01:15:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:15:52 ◼   ► - That car rebelled on the way to drive the Rivian.

01:15:55 ◼   ► - Oh, it knows, it's like when you take your dog to the vet.

01:15:58 ◼   ► It knows. - It knew, it knew.

01:16:00 ◼   ► - But I will say, so there's a few relevant details here.

01:16:04 ◼   ► But first, what happened the day before

01:16:07 ◼   ► was I sold the Tesla.

01:16:09 ◼   ► - Oh, you didn't tell us this.

01:16:10 ◼   ► This is genuinely new news.

01:16:11 ◼   ► I'm not putting on an ad here. - Yes, I was saving it

01:16:12 ◼   ► for the show.

01:16:13 ◼   ► - Oh, this is news.

01:16:15 ◼   ► Who or what did you sell it to?

01:16:17 ◼   ► - So, as you know, I've been looking to try to get

01:16:20 ◼   ► just somebody to buy it.

01:16:22 ◼   ► I just wanted to do some kind of trade-in thing.

01:16:24 ◼   ► I didn't wanna go through eBay or Cars and Bids

01:16:27 ◼   ► or anything, 'cause I'm hardly ever there

01:16:30 ◼   ► where this car is, and it's winter.

01:16:32 ◼   ► I don't want to go get it cleaned and take pictures.

01:16:35 ◼   ► - You're perfectly timing this sale

01:16:36 ◼   ► for the peak of the used Tesla market though, not exactly.

01:16:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:16:40 ◼   ► So anyway, and what kept killing the value of the car,

01:16:45 ◼   ► so whenever you go online you fill out a form of like,

01:16:48 ◼   ► give me a quote for this car,

01:16:50 ◼   ► what would kill it is that officially

01:16:52 ◼   ► in whatever database they're looking at,

01:16:54 ◼   ► it has an accident report.

01:16:56 ◼   ► Because, and I think I said this on the show

01:16:58 ◼   ► when it happened, a couple years ago it got scraped

01:17:00 ◼   ► by a plow in the ferry parking lot.

01:17:02 ◼   ► - We talked about it.

01:17:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, it blew the tire up and everything.

01:17:04 ◼   ► - While it was parked.

01:17:05 ◼   ► - Yes, I wasn't even there.

01:17:07 ◼   ► It was parked, it got scraped on the front bumper panel

01:17:11 ◼   ► or whatever, so it was bad enough that a body shop

01:17:14 ◼   ► had to replace the bumper.

01:17:15 ◼   ► And I went through insurance,

01:17:17 ◼   ► 'cause it would have cost like $6,000

01:17:19 ◼   ► because of the way Teslas are made.

01:17:21 ◼   ► So anyway, went through insurance,

01:17:24 ◼   ► and apparently that got reported as quote, an accident.

01:17:28 ◼   ► But there were no details in these databases

01:17:29 ◼   ► of what this accident was.

01:17:30 ◼   ► So whenever I'd go on, whenever I'd like fill out a thing,

01:17:34 ◼   ► I'd be like, alright, model year, model mileage,

01:17:37 ◼   ► and it would tell me, okay, it's worth this.

01:17:40 ◼   ► But then once it got down to like, alright,

01:17:41 ◼   ► give us your license plate or VIN

01:17:43 ◼   ► so we can give you like a firm offer

01:17:44 ◼   ► on your particular car, it would go down like 10 grand

01:17:48 ◼   ► because of that stupid accident report.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Anyway, so I was at my wits end, and I was gonna like,

01:17:53 ◼   ► I'm fine, I'm just gonna, let me just see.

01:17:56 ◼   ► A few people said, try CarMax.

01:17:59 ◼   ► And I hadn't tried CarMax before because they,

01:18:03 ◼   ► for certain cars they won't give you a quote online.

01:18:06 ◼   ► It basically says like, your car is too rare or finicky

01:18:10 ◼   ► in the market value so you need to bring it to our store

01:18:13 ◼   ► and we'll give you a quote in person.

01:18:15 ◼   ► So I was like, I don't wanna deal with that.

01:18:17 ◼   ► But I was on my wits end so I eventually,

01:18:19 ◼   ► I'm like, you know what, let me go see what they have to say

01:18:22 ◼   ► 'cause I don't wanna deal with this anymore.

01:18:23 ◼   ► I'm tired of having three cars, it's a pain in the butt.

01:18:26 ◼   ► This car is decreasing in value every day, I don't sell it.

01:18:31 ◼   ► And the last thing I want is to be sitting on this

01:18:33 ◼   ► any longer than I have to.

01:18:35 ◼   ► So it's already gone down enough since last fall.

01:18:38 ◼   ► I wanna sell it, right?

01:18:42 ◼   ► So I went, I drove all the way to the nearest one

01:18:44 ◼   ► which was in New Jersey, it's an hour away.

01:18:47 ◼   ► I'm like, I'm gonna drive an hour for this.

01:18:49 ◼   ► But let me just see.

01:18:50 ◼   ► And honestly, I was a little sad to sell the Tesla

01:18:53 ◼   ► because I loved that car.

01:18:56 ◼   ► But as I was driving there, my back's all hurting

01:19:00 ◼   ► and I'm trying to get the seat in the right spot

01:19:02 ◼   ► so it doesn't irritate sciatic stuff.

01:19:04 ◼   ► And I'm like, since I've been away from this car

01:19:07 ◼   ► for so long, I can't get comfortable in it now.

01:19:09 ◼   ► And I'm sitting on the ground

01:19:12 ◼   ► and everyone's all higher than me.

01:19:14 ◼   ► And I'm like, I'm ready to get rid of it now.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Plus it is driving around in a big red mega hat.

01:19:20 ◼   ► So anyway, I get there and I'm kind of saying

01:19:24 ◼   ► a bite of the car on the way there.

01:19:26 ◼   ► We've had our good times.

01:19:27 ◼   ► I love my cars, not all of them, but many of them.