Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 446.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Ladder,

00:00:16 ◼   ► ExpressVPN and Fitbond.

00:00:18 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - I'm Myke Hurley, how are you?

00:00:23 ◼   ► - I'm very good.

00:00:24 ◼   ► In lieu of small talk, as we do every week,

00:00:26 ◼   ► we will begin today's episode of a Snell Talk question.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Jon wants to know, Jason, what was your favorite game

00:00:32 ◼   ► on the original Macintosh?

00:00:35 ◼   ► - I have a lot of favorites from the original Macintosh.

00:00:37 ◼   ► I played a lot of games on the,

00:00:39 ◼   ► well, original Macintosh is not quite right.

00:00:41 ◼   ► I had a Mac SE, but like, I know what Jon means here.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Like back in the day, right when I first got a Mac.

00:00:46 ◼   ► What were my favorite games?

00:00:47 ◼   ► When I was thinking about this,

00:00:51 ◼   ► I thought about like their Shuffle Puck Cafe,

00:00:53 ◼   ► which where you use the mouse as a paddle

00:00:56 ◼   ► to play air hockey against an AI opponent.

00:01:01 ◼   ► It was pretty great.

00:01:03 ◼   ► And also a good use of the mechanism of having a mouse

00:01:08 ◼   ► to basically replicate the movement of the puck

00:01:13 ◼   ► or of the little, not the puck, of the little thing

00:01:18 ◼   ► that you use, the little plastic thing

00:01:20 ◼   ► that you use to hit the puck, 'cause the mouse was that.

00:01:22 ◼   ► And so there was sort of a one-to-one relationship.

00:01:24 ◼   ► I love that.

00:01:26 ◼   ► SimCity, played a lot of SimCity in SimCity 2000,

00:01:31 ◼   ► a lot of that.

00:01:33 ◼   ► It was also kind of soothing.

00:01:36 ◼   ► I get the same vibe from Mini Motorways and Mini Metro.

00:01:41 ◼   ► They're very similar in that they're what,

00:01:43 ◼   ► even though there's a little more,

00:01:45 ◼   ► I mean, there's gameplay in both,

00:01:46 ◼   ► but it's also just sort of like soothing and chill

00:01:48 ◼   ► and you can actually just put it in endless mode

00:01:53 ◼   ► if you want to.

00:01:56 ◼   ► But the answer here, the single game I may have spent

00:02:01 ◼   ► the most time playing in my lifetime,

00:02:04 ◼   ► it's still probably Tetris.

00:02:07 ◼   ► So that's my answer, Tetris.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Spectrum Holobyte, official license from the Soviet Union.

00:02:15 ◼   ► There was no little actual property.

00:02:16 ◼   ► Alexey Pajitnov who wrote Tetris,

00:02:18 ◼   ► didn't see money from Tetris for like a decade

00:02:21 ◼   ► when it was the most popular game in the world.

00:02:23 ◼   ► But it's totally Tetris.

00:02:25 ◼   ► I love Tetris.

00:02:26 ◼   ► To this day, I love it.

00:02:27 ◼   ► I have a Tetris on my Playdate, in fact.

00:02:30 ◼   ► But for me, as a Mac Tetris person,

00:02:34 ◼   ► in fact, that 512 Mac that I have the floppy EMU on

00:02:39 ◼   ► that has the, so I can boot it and play stuff

00:02:42 ◼   ► from the old days,

00:02:44 ◼   ► it boots to a disc that has Tetris on it.

00:02:47 ◼   ► JK, what was it?

00:02:51 ◼   ► JKLI for the movement and the space bar to drop is just,

00:02:56 ◼   ► it's burned in my brain.

00:02:59 ◼   ► It's in there, Tetris.

00:03:01 ◼   ► - There was, my uncle had a Mac of some description.

00:03:05 ◼   ► Like I was a young, young kid, like single digit age.

00:03:09 ◼   ► I remember this.

00:03:10 ◼   ► I don't know what Mac it was,

00:03:12 ◼   ► but I know that it was green on black, right?

00:03:14 ◼   ► So I assume it was just a Mac, right?

00:03:16 ◼   ► Like an original Mac of some description.

00:03:19 ◼   ► And he had a golf game.

00:03:20 ◼   ► I don't know what game this was, right?

00:03:22 ◼   ► But like, that is like a big early memory for me.

00:03:26 ◼   ► Like, it was just, the game was just like green on black.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Some kind of golf game.

00:03:31 ◼   ► I used to play this a lot when I'd visit his house.

00:03:34 ◼   ► So that's all I know.

00:03:36 ◼   ► I have tried many times to try and find this one,

00:03:38 ◼   ► like, but I don't know what it was.

00:03:40 ◼   ► Like, it's complicated.

00:03:42 ◼   ► - Did you ask John Syracuse?

00:03:43 ◼   ► - No.

00:03:45 ◼   ► - He might know.

00:03:46 ◼   ► - He might know.

00:03:47 ◼   ► - I don't remember.

00:03:48 ◼   ► I do, I remember,

00:03:50 ◼   ► And back then, you know, without the internet and stuff,

00:03:53 ◼   ► you ended up with, so I discovered the Mac at college.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And so people with Macs at college,

00:03:58 ◼   ► first off, lots of people didn't have Macs at college, right?

00:04:00 ◼   ► But there were people with Macs at college.

00:04:01 ◼   ► And when you would find the person with the Mac at college,

00:04:04 ◼   ► you would find like what games or what discs they had, right?

00:04:08 ◼   ► And what games they had.

00:04:10 ◼   ► And you would discover, you'd be like,

00:04:12 ◼   ► I have never even heard of this.

00:04:13 ◼   ► And there would be, so I wouldn't be surprised

00:04:15 ◼   ► if somewhere in my brain,

00:04:17 ◼   ► there's lodged a golf game that I saw.

00:04:19 ◼   ► I was like, "Oh, golf on a computer? Okay, whatever." But that was never one that I copied

00:04:24 ◼   ► or whatever. By which I mean bought. I don't mean bought.

00:04:28 ◼   ► Copy the idea and then went to a store and bought it is what you meant.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Yeah, that's totally what I meant. When I say pirate, I mean more of a privateer really.

00:04:37 ◼   ► Anyway, yes, those are the games. And then in my college newspaper office, we actually

00:04:44 ◼   ► were networked. And so we played, there was a game called Net Track, also not licensed

00:04:50 ◼   ► by, from Star Trek, but they use some of the art and sound effects, but it was a network

00:04:56 ◼   ► space battle game, basically, and then Spectre, which was a network tank game that came a

00:05:02 ◼   ► little bit later, but Net Track was something we played because it was the idea that everybody

00:05:05 ◼   ► got on. I mean, it was really just an amazing moment. That was our first, most of us, that

00:05:10 ◼   ► was the first networked gaming experience where we're in different rooms in the office

00:05:16 ◼   ► flying our little spaceship around trying to destroy the other people's spaceships.

00:05:21 ◼   ► And that was just a revelation whenever you did that for the first time in that era you

00:05:27 ◼   ► remembered like, "Oh, this is going to be a thing. This is a big deal to be able to be

00:05:31 ◼   ► on your different computers and play against your friends." It was pretty great.

00:05:35 ◼   ► I think Apple's making like a Tetris movie.

00:05:39 ◼   ► - Yes, I think that's true.

00:05:42 ◼   ► - I still, I don't really know much about it

00:05:44 ◼   ► other than it's happening.

00:05:46 ◼   ► I think I wanna leave it that way for now, you know?

00:05:50 ◼   ► And just like, I wanna see what that ends up being

00:05:53 ◼   ► when it comes.

00:05:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:58 ◼   ► I think it's about like Alexey Pajitnov making Tetris.

00:06:03 ◼   ► But-- - I don't know, man.

00:06:05 ◼   ► I'm gonna assume that it's like an animated movie

00:06:08 ◼   ► and it's all of the Tetris pieces.

00:06:10 ◼   ► - It was already, wasn't there already like a Tetris movie

00:06:13 ◼   ► that was like big blocks are coming from the sky

00:06:16 ◼   ► or something, I don't know.

00:06:18 ◼   ► I don't know. - Was that Battleship?

00:06:19 ◼   ► - There was a Battleship movie, yes.

00:06:21 ◼   ► - If you would like to send in a question

00:06:24 ◼   ► to help us open an episode of Upgrade in the future,

00:06:26 ◼   ► just send in a Snell Talk question

00:06:29 ◼   ► by going to upgradefeedback.com.

00:06:31 ◼   ► Thank you to everybody that has.

00:06:34 ◼   ► I have some follow-up, which is that I am now on Mastodon, Jason.

00:06:38 ◼   ► I have joined the Don.

00:06:40 ◼   ► I'm hanging out with everybody else now on Mastodon.

00:06:43 ◼   ► So you can come follow me.

00:06:45 ◼   ► I have set up my own instance,

00:06:47 ◼   ► as it seems to be the cool thing all my friends are doing,

00:06:49 ◼   ► at mike.social.

00:06:50 ◼   ► >> Join us.

00:06:51 ◼   ► >> I am iMyke on mike.social,

00:06:54 ◼   ► so you can come follow me there.

00:06:55 ◼   ► There's a couple of reasons,

00:06:56 ◼   ► like in a nutshell, I won't belabor the point.

00:06:59 ◼   ► I wanted to have somewhere where I could talk about

00:07:01 ◼   ► all the various things that I'm doing about

00:07:02 ◼   ► bringing these things to all of my various shows, right?

00:07:05 ◼   ► So it gives me a place to talk about what I'm up to.

00:07:07 ◼   ► And also, everyone's there right now,

00:07:09 ◼   ► and it seems like a lot of fun, and it has that vibe.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Mastodon right now has the early Twitter vibe.

00:07:18 ◼   ► There are all these apps, and loads of stuff's happening,

00:07:21 ◼   ► and I kind of feel like I'm missing out

00:07:24 ◼   ► on something cool that's happening

00:07:26 ◼   ► in our corner of the world.

00:07:27 ◼   ► To help myself, I've set a bunch of,

00:07:30 ◼   ► what I'm calling guardrails about like how many people I'm following

00:07:33 ◼   ► and how much time I'm spending on the service every day.

00:07:36 ◼   ► Um, I have a 15 minute app limit in ivory at the moment.

00:07:40 ◼   ► And it's going great for me so far.

00:07:43 ◼   ► And, uh, I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to understand a Fediverse

00:07:46 ◼   ► for everything that it's got to offer.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Uh, but I would appreciate it if you're so interested that you can

00:07:51 ◼   ► come find me on mike.social.

00:07:53 ◼   ► Oh boy.

00:07:54 ◼   ► With upgrades also on Mastodon too.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Jason set up a bot.

00:07:58 ◼   ► So if you have followed us previously,

00:08:01 ◼   ► we are upgrade on mastodon.social.

00:08:04 ◼   ► If you like, you don't want to find out

00:08:06 ◼   ► when the show is posted and stuff like that,

00:08:08 ◼   ► we're also there so you can go and do that.

00:08:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I wired all that up.

00:08:13 ◼   ► So the upgrade Twitter account

00:08:15 ◼   ► and the upgrade mastodon account.

00:08:17 ◼   ► Upgrade Twitter account used to be hand posted.

00:08:18 ◼   ► It's not now, it's auto posted based on the show notes

00:08:21 ◼   ► and the mastodon account has that as well.

00:08:23 ◼   ► So if you want to follow that just as a source of,

00:08:25 ◼   ► is there a new episode or are we live?

00:08:27 ◼   ► which I'm still working on the live thing,

00:08:28 ◼   ► but we'll get there.

00:08:29 ◼   ► I'll get that all together.

00:08:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, we'll get there.

00:08:32 ◼   ► But yeah, we're trying it out and it is fun

00:08:36 ◼   ► and it's cool and it's interesting.

00:08:38 ◼   ► And I'm trying to keep it a little bit looser

00:08:40 ◼   ► than I did on Twitter towards the end as well.

00:08:43 ◼   ► So yeah, you can come follow us.

00:08:45 ◼   ► And Jason, how's Zeppelin.flights?

00:08:47 ◼   ► Everything going well over there?

00:08:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, Zeppelin.flights is going good.

00:08:51 ◼   ► I got, you know, there's several people on there.

00:08:53 ◼   ► It's not just me 'cause it's other people from Incomparable.

00:08:55 ◼   ► But what I found is with Meso.host is-

00:08:58 ◼   ► - Which is why I'm using two, which is great.

00:09:00 ◼   ► - I'm using their planet level or something.

00:09:03 ◼   ► And it's, you know, I think I'm probably pushing it

00:09:06 ◼   ► a little bit.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Actually, day to day, it works fine.

00:09:09 ◼   ► The challenge is that if you have a decent number

00:09:12 ◼   ► of followers, so like when I migrated,

00:09:14 ◼   ► when Dan Morin migrated, and when I recently migrated

00:09:16 ◼   ► six colors over there, which has a few thousand followers,

00:09:19 ◼   ► the moment you press the migration button,

00:09:22 ◼   ► the whole thing just slows to a crawl for a few hours maybe.

00:09:25 ◼   ► and then it's fine again.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Because what happens is every other server

00:09:30 ◼   ► that's looking, that contains a person

00:09:33 ◼   ► who's following that account,

00:09:34 ◼   ► hits mastodon.social where it was,

00:09:37 ◼   ► gets the forward request and immediately hits

00:09:40 ◼   ► the new server at zeppelin.flights.

00:09:43 ◼   ► And that all happens at once

00:09:45 ◼   ► and that server gets real slow.

00:09:47 ◼   ► And then it works fine.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Like once the transition is over,

00:09:50 ◼   ► again, it works good.

00:09:52 ◼   ► And I haven't had a problem with it.

00:09:53 ◼   ► So that's, that's, yeah, it's going okay.

00:09:56 ◼   ► - How was your Super Bowl experience?

00:10:00 ◼   ► - I mean, I watched the Super Bowl at home.

00:10:02 ◼   ► We didn't have anybody over or anything.

00:10:04 ◼   ► We didn't go anywhere.

00:10:05 ◼   ► We just watched the Super Bowl.

00:10:06 ◼   ► We had a busy morning.

00:10:07 ◼   ► We came home, we're very tired,

00:10:09 ◼   ► and we watched the Super Bowl.

00:10:10 ◼   ► So the big, the story though is, of course,

00:10:15 ◼   ► what I really, how should I phrase this?

00:10:17 ◼   ► Well, what I really was there for, Myke,

00:10:19 ◼   ► is the Apple Music halftime show.

00:10:21 ◼   ► That's not true, but I watched the Super Bowl every year,

00:10:23 ◼   ► but it was the inaugural Apple Music halftime show.

00:10:28 ◼   ► Inaugural.

00:10:29 ◼   ► - I don't think we spoke about this

00:10:30 ◼   ► right when it was announced,

00:10:31 ◼   ► but this is such a smart move for Apple, right?

00:10:35 ◼   ► Like the halftime show is one of the biggest

00:10:38 ◼   ► musical events of the year.

00:10:40 ◼   ► And it was Pepsi for a long time, right?

00:10:43 ◼   ► For Apple to get kind of like the branding right on this.

00:10:47 ◼   ► I don't know if they have any kind of input

00:10:51 ◼   ► or like help or whatever.

00:10:53 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, but I don't think it matters, right?

00:10:55 ◼   ► It's just like, this is great.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - I don't, you know, I don't know whether,

00:10:59 ◼   ► so what happened is it used to be outsiders

00:11:03 ◼   ► who produced the halftime show.

00:11:07 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:11:08 ◼   ► - And then what happened is the wardrobe malfunction,

00:11:13 ◼   ► which people might remember.

00:11:16 ◼   ► - Yep, yep.

00:11:17 ◼   ► - That's the Janet Jackson, Justin Timberlake thing.

00:11:20 ◼   ► And that was, I think, did MTV produce that?

00:11:22 ◼   ► Anyway, and the NFL was like, no, no, no,

00:11:25 ◼   ► we're gonna produce it.

00:11:25 ◼   ► I don't know, I'm gonna have to look,

00:11:27 ◼   ► I don't know whether this was an Apple Music production

00:11:30 ◼   ► or a co-production with the NFL,

00:11:32 ◼   ► but I'm sure that Apple had input on what it was.

00:11:36 ◼   ► And I think, I mean, look, okay, so it was Rihanna.

00:11:39 ◼   ► I think that Apple's goal is to have the musical guests,

00:11:44 ◼   ► guest or guests at the Super Bowl be relevant, right?

00:11:47 ◼   ► Like Apple's goal is not nostalgia trip, I think.

00:11:52 ◼   ► And so I think while sometimes the Super Bowl halftime show

00:11:55 ◼   ► is a classic artist, a great artist.

00:11:57 ◼   ► - Like last year's, which was awesome, right?

00:11:59 ◼   ► The De Deuray show was fantastic,

00:12:02 ◼   ► especially if you're my age.

00:12:04 ◼   ► I think it was like perfect.

00:12:05 ◼   ► - Right, so I guess this is the question is,

00:12:07 ◼   ► you don't want it to be like so new

00:12:09 ◼   ► that nobody knows who they are,

00:12:11 ◼   ► because it's the Super Bowl.

00:12:12 ◼   ► It is a broad entertainment event.

00:12:13 ◼   ► It's the most watched television program

00:12:15 ◼   ► in the United States,

00:12:16 ◼   ► and it's one of the biggest TV events in the world,

00:12:18 ◼   ► but it's certainly number one in the US by a mile.

00:12:21 ◼   ► And so you want somebody who is gonna be known,

00:12:25 ◼   ► but also that I would say you want it to be relevant.

00:12:30 ◼   ► And if you're Apple, you especially don't wanna be known

00:12:32 ◼   ► as like a brand that's attached to some old star.

00:12:36 ◼   ► Like Paul McCartney was at the Super Bowl.

00:12:39 ◼   ► Paul McCartney did not perform at the Super Bowl, right?

00:12:41 ◼   ► Like that's the dividing line.

00:12:43 ◼   ► Rihanna performed at the Super Bowl.

00:12:45 ◼   ► So I think it'll be interesting

00:12:47 ◼   ► to see how these guest selections go going forward.

00:12:49 ◼   ► Does Apple have influence with artists

00:12:51 ◼   ► that maybe the NFL or Pepsi struggled with

00:12:55 ◼   ► that Apple will be able to be involved with?

00:12:57 ◼   ► I think it's also interesting that Rihanna performed

00:13:01 ◼   ► without any special guests.

00:13:02 ◼   ► That was another thing that's happened in recent,

00:13:04 ◼   ► and we can't call it a trend 'cause this is the first one,

00:13:07 ◼   ► but in recent years, there has been a lot of like

00:13:09 ◼   ► stuffing in of extra stuff.

00:13:12 ◼   ► So it'll be like, hey, you know, this person will be there.

00:13:16 ◼   ► But they, and then there's like,

00:13:18 ◼   ► And then these three other famous people appeared

00:13:20 ◼   ► to do one song.

00:13:21 ◼   ► And then this other famous person appears.

00:13:23 ◼   ► And this was Rihanna.

00:13:24 ◼   ► That's it.

00:13:25 ◼   ► And dancers.

00:13:26 ◼   ► That's it.

00:13:27 ◼   ► Period. - The weekend,

00:13:27 ◼   ► a few years ago, was the same, right?

00:13:29 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:13:30 ◼   ► - But like, lost years was like--

00:13:31 ◼   ► - Which I enjoyed.

00:13:32 ◼   ► That was one of my favorites.

00:13:33 ◼   ► Because it felt like he was,

00:13:35 ◼   ► I thought, not only did I enjoy that,

00:13:36 ◼   ► but it was just him and it was a good show.

00:13:38 ◼   ► And it was somebody, I would say, who is big,

00:13:42 ◼   ► but probably, I mean, he was verging on,

00:13:44 ◼   ► is the weekend big enough?

00:13:46 ◼   ► but like for the Super Bowl, or is it a little too soon?

00:13:50 ◼   ► But I thought it was worth that.

00:13:52 ◼   ► That I think, I wonder if that might've been the model.

00:13:54 ◼   ► If Apple Music was like that weekend show,

00:13:56 ◼   ► we want that to be the show.

00:13:59 ◼   ► And it was amazing.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Like they had, they were on floating platforms

00:14:02 ◼   ► because this is a dome basically with a cutout,

00:14:06 ◼   ► but they were on the floating platforms

00:14:08 ◼   ► and you could see that they're tethered,

00:14:09 ◼   ► like Rihanna was tethered behind.

00:14:12 ◼   ► So she's not gonna fall off.

00:14:14 ◼   ► - Still man. - But still.

00:14:15 ◼   ► - That thing, those things were moving.

00:14:17 ◼   ► - And dancing on platforms that are like floating

00:14:21 ◼   ► high above the stadium.

00:14:23 ◼   ► And then they brought her down and they were dancing more.

00:14:25 ◼   ► And so Lauren was enjoying the dancers on the platforms

00:14:28 ◼   ► 'cause they're sort of like,

00:14:29 ◼   ► "Move your extremities slightly, but not too much."

00:14:32 ◼   ► But anyway, I thought it was a good show.

00:14:36 ◼   ► My daughter was very excited and loved it.

00:14:41 ◼   ► I thought it was really good.

00:14:43 ◼   ► and I love the fact that she just held it down.

00:14:45 ◼   ► There was no need for extra leavening of guest artists.

00:14:49 ◼   ► Like, no need.

00:14:51 ◼   ► - Her catalog is so large, right?

00:14:53 ◼   ► Like, you kind of see it in these moments.

00:14:56 ◼   ► It tends to be a lot of medleys,

00:14:58 ◼   ► but usually I feel like even in these medley full

00:15:02 ◼   ► performances, you'll get someone do like most of a song.

00:15:05 ◼   ► I don't think she had the time to do any one song in full

00:15:09 ◼   ► to fill half an hour.

00:15:10 ◼   ► - But it was like greatest hit one after another

00:15:12 ◼   ► just coming over and over again and showing my deep Rihanna knowledge I feel

00:15:17 ◼   ► like she ended with the songs that I had heard it was like oh I know these now

00:15:22 ◼   ► we're into the ones that I know Umbrella, Shine a Bright Light, A Diamond, yeah I got it

00:15:29 ◼   ► anyway the key news though the key news here Myke is it's time for where in the

00:15:35 ◼   ► world are Tim and Eddie. Tim Cook and Eddie Q. And the answer is in a luxury box in Phoenix,

00:15:43 ◼   ► Arizona, watching the Super Bowl. And we know this because we got to see pictures that went

00:15:48 ◼   ► across the social media, including Tim Cook sitting next to Billie Eilish, which had very

00:15:55 ◼   ► strong "my dad made me come to this football game" energy.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Yes. Yes, it does.

00:16:02 ◼   ► Mm-hmm and Eddie Q sitting next to Adele which led to our friend John, Syracuse, uh, posting on Mastodon everyone else in the world

00:16:08 ◼   ► Hey, it's Adele me and the people I know Eddie

00:16:11 ◼   ► You know when I saw these images I'm like this is another key reason for Apple to want

00:16:19 ◼   ► Moozing there were parties beforehand. They get to

00:16:23 ◼   ► Afterwards. Yeah to the stars that they want to make sure right like Adele Billy Irish like, you know

00:16:31 ◼   ► you're in the family, but hey, come down, look after you, you know, like all that kind of stuff.

00:16:36 ◼   ► And it's a genuine big reason for all of this corporate stuff, right?

00:16:40 ◼   ► It's why a lot of companies put their names on the side of arenas, because then it becomes like a thing that they can offer to clients or whatever.

00:16:47 ◼   ► This is about as big a ticket as you can score.

00:16:50 ◼   ► And Apple, I'm sure, get multiple boxes or whatever as part of this.

00:16:55 ◼   ► Well, they got obviously there's this big luxury suite and the stars are all in there and they're

00:17:00 ◼   ► doing parties beforehand and like it's a whole,

00:17:03 ◼   ► it's a whole thing, right?

00:17:05 ◼   ► And it's just one piece of Apple's larger strategy,

00:17:08 ◼   ► but I think this is an interesting Apple music

00:17:10 ◼   ► kind of thing and they're committed, right?

00:17:11 ◼   ► Isn't the deal for 10 years?

00:17:13 ◼   ► I mean, they're committed to this.

00:17:15 ◼   ► We'll see where it goes from here.

00:17:18 ◼   ► But you know, we're guaranteed that Tim Cook's

00:17:20 ◼   ► gonna take in at least one non-Auburn football game

00:17:23 ◼   ► a year now, it'll be the Super Bowl.

00:17:25 ◼   ► By the way, before we continue, speaking of Auburn,

00:17:28 ◼   ► I just wanna throw this out there if you don't know

00:17:30 ◼   ► Tim Cook's a big fan of Auburn College football. I believe Auburn plays at Cal

00:17:35 ◼   ► this year, so what I'm saying is Tim I have an extra ticket. Give me a call.

00:17:40 ◼   ► Okay. Take off that red shirt. One rumor roundup item this week. Ross Young is

00:17:46 ◼   ► suggesting that a 15.5 inch MacBook Air could be coming in April. Quote, "15.5

00:17:52 ◼   ► inch MacBook Air started panel production this month. We would expect an early

00:17:57 ◼   ► April launch. Right, remember Ross Young is a display analyst and therefore when he says started

00:18:04 ◼   ► panel production like this is one of those supply chain things which is he knows they're making the

00:18:09 ◼   ► displays now for this thing and that they know the size and they know what it you know the

00:18:15 ◼   ► everything all the specs of the panel and that that leads to this um this result but I like bring

00:18:21 ◼   ► it on I'm very excited about this because as we've talked about here several times um you shouldn't

00:18:25 ◼   ► need to spend more than $2,000 if all you really want is a bigger screen in your Apple

00:18:33 ◼   ► laptop, right?

00:18:34 ◼   ► I feel like this screen for Ross Young is real easy to guess, right?

00:18:38 ◼   ► Just because a screen of that size in the quality of display panel is only really one

00:18:44 ◼   ► place it can go.

00:18:45 ◼   ► It's not the spec of the MacBook Pro, it's probably the same spec as the smaller MacBook

00:18:51 ◼   ► Air panel.

00:18:52 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Yeah. Love it.

00:18:57 ◼   ► And Apple has announced a new person coming to the executive board at the C-suite level,

00:19:05 ◼   ► a Chief People Officer, which is going to be a role fulfilled by Carol Surface, which

00:19:15 ◼   ► I like the Surface joke. I've been thinking, "Is there a joke around Surface that I can

00:19:20 ◼   ► get here but I couldn't think of one. Carol Surface is joining Apple.

00:19:25 ◼   ► From now on, going to be referred to as Carol iPad. Sorry everybody.

00:19:27 ◼   ► There you go. There you go. Oh boy. Carol Surface is joining Apple to fill the position

00:19:35 ◼   ► after spending a decade as vice president of HR, a medical device company called Medtronic.

00:19:42 ◼   ► Deidre O'Brien who was fulfilling these roles and then also took over the retail role back

00:19:48 ◼   ► in 2017 from Angela Ahrendts, Deirdre was running two roles, is now relinquishing HR

00:19:55 ◼   ► duties to focus fully on retail. Deirdre was people, moved to people and retail, and now

00:20:01 ◼   ► is letting go of people. So I wanted to ask you two thoughts on this. One, that this is

00:20:07 ◼   ► a C-level role, which is intriguing, and what do you think about bringing in someone from

00:20:13 ◼   ► outside of Apple to fill the role in charge kind of a like corporate culture.

00:20:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think this role is really in charge of corporate culture. I mean, it's

00:20:23 ◼   ► a it's a it's an HR role. And in fact, the reason Deidre O'Brien got the retail job is

00:20:28 ◼   ► because most of Apple's people are retail people, right? Like, that's the truth of it

00:20:34 ◼   ► is the bulk of Apple's employees because I always see these stories, you know, sorry

00:20:38 ◼   ► for the tangent here, but like I see these stories about hiring in Silicon Valley, and

00:20:41 ◼   ► talk about the size that Apple is. And they're like, "Oh, and Apple has all these employees."

00:20:45 ◼   ► And it's like, "Yeah, but most of them are retail." And I'm not saying that retail employees

00:20:49 ◼   ► aren't like real employees. I'm saying, I see people use the employee number as a proxy

00:20:56 ◼   ► for how much R&D Apple is doing and stuff. And it's like, there is a group of people

00:21:02 ◼   ► who are in Cupertino and in other places who are building product, and then there's retail.

00:21:07 ◼   ► running this retail chain is an enormous task and it has a huge number of people employed.

00:21:14 ◼   ► There are different needs for people who are working in retail than the people who are

00:21:17 ◼   ► working writing software or designing a processor. So I don't know, bringing in an outsider is

00:21:24 ◼   ► always weird. They have so many different things about the culture, including Apple

00:21:27 ◼   ► University that I feel like, I'm sure they were concerned about it, but what they really

00:21:32 ◼   ► one is a good head of HR so that Deidre O'Brien doesn't have to keep doing it, right? Like

00:21:38 ◼   ► that seems to be the task here is so that Deidre O'Brien doesn't have to keep being

00:21:43 ◼   ► directly responsible for HR. So they brought they bring her in, Carol surface, they bring

00:21:48 ◼   ► her in at a CPO level, Chief People Officer level, probably because that's how they could

00:21:54 ◼   ► get her and they wanted her. We'll see how it goes, right? I mean, there is definitely

00:21:59 ◼   ► This feels like it might be fine,

00:22:01 ◼   ► but there is a track record of people coming in

00:22:03 ◼   ► from the outside to Apple and just not fitting.

00:22:06 ◼   ► And I'm sure that concerns them,

00:22:08 ◼   ► but just because it concerns them,

00:22:09 ◼   ► they may still have done this.

00:22:10 ◼   ► And there may even be a, well, we'll see.

00:22:13 ◼   ► In fact, if I were Carole Surface, I would say,

00:22:16 ◼   ► I'm gonna keep thinking about that name.

00:22:21 ◼   ► You got in my head now.

00:22:23 ◼   ► If I was Carole Surface, I would definitely want a,

00:22:25 ◼   ► what if this doesn't work out?

00:22:27 ◼   ► how much are you going to pay me to leave? I would have that consideration because there's

00:22:32 ◼   ► a non, anybody coming in from the outside at a high level to Apple, there is a non-zero

00:22:37 ◼   ► chance that you're not going to make it, right?

00:22:40 ◼   ► History does not work kindly on that.

00:22:43 ◼   ► You might be Browett level where you're just a bad cultural fit and kicked out almost immediately.

00:22:48 ◼   ► You might be an Angela Ahrendts level where it's sort of like, yeah, but not really and

00:22:53 ◼   ► let's just agree to part. And so anyway, if you're coming in at the level that Carol

00:22:59 ◼   ► Surface is, I would definitely want to have those scenarios plotted out. But I'm sure

00:23:04 ◼   ► everybody wants it to work. And it's not, I mean, I'd say what's critical about this,

00:23:10 ◼   ► I was going to say it was not a critical part of Apple's business. It is, but in a different

00:23:14 ◼   ► way than a lot of these other executive jobs, right? Like what are the most relevant things

00:23:20 ◼   ► Carol surface is going to have to deal with. I think it's going to be retention of their

00:23:25 ◼   ► existing employees, especially the ones who are highly valued and have a lot of stock

00:23:29 ◼   ► options and maybe, you know, maybe want to do something else and have a new challenge.

00:23:35 ◼   ► And then the big one, I think, is retail and all the issues, especially about unionization

00:23:41 ◼   ► in retail. Obviously a big area where a lot of news has happened in the last year about

00:23:48 ◼   ► unionizing or potentially unionizing at various retail stores and that's something that she's

00:23:52 ◼   ► going to have to, I'm sure you know, from the perspective of Apple, she's going to have

00:23:58 ◼   ► to handle it, right? Like make sure that doesn't happen is probably what her charge is going

00:24:02 ◼   ► to be. But yeah, we'll see. Interesting to bring anybody in from the outside. I guess

00:24:08 ◼   ► this means that Deidre O'Brien has gone well as head of retail, right? Like, because otherwise,

00:24:14 ◼   ► I mean, right?

00:24:15 ◼   ► Like, she's gonna keep doing that job

00:24:17 ◼   ► and that's just gonna be your job.

00:24:19 ◼   ► - I mean, it seems like the stores have kind of

00:24:23 ◼   ► restabilized, I guess.

00:24:25 ◼   ► 'Cause there was a period of upheaval, some good, some bad.

00:24:28 ◼   ► Like, I think that was what they asked Andrew and I

00:24:31 ◼   ► to do, but then Apple's business changed underneath her,

00:24:34 ◼   ► right, and they had to start shifting iPhones.

00:24:37 ◼   ► No stores were not set up for shift in iPhones.

00:24:40 ◼   ► - Hard sell.

00:24:41 ◼   ► - And so I think that they've changed that around again,

00:24:44 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, it's gonna be interesting

00:24:46 ◼   ► because like the unionization thing

00:24:48 ◼   ► is also something for Deidre O'Brien to deal with, right?

00:24:50 ◼   ► Like I feel like this isn't,

00:24:51 ◼   ► and well, reports have been suggesting

00:24:54 ◼   ► Deidre has been dealing with.

00:24:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I think these all go,

00:24:58 ◼   ► I mean, these all go together and I, yeah.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Obviously they're gonna be working together

00:25:05 ◼   ► on a lot of this stuff because it is people

00:25:07 ◼   ► and it is retail and they go together.

00:25:09 ◼   ► So that's the case here.

00:25:11 ◼   ► I do wonder, I mean, first off,

00:25:13 ◼   ► there's a whole HR infrastructure, right?

00:25:15 ◼   ► And somebody has to do that part.

00:25:16 ◼   ► And that'll be, Carole Surface will be in charge of that.

00:25:19 ◼   ► But like, I do wonder about at what level

00:25:23 ◼   ► the retail head is involved in the details of retail.

00:25:26 ◼   ► Since there are so many retail employees

00:25:28 ◼   ► and they're so different from the other employees at Apple,

00:25:32 ◼   ► you know, are the retail employees

00:25:35 ◼   ► still kind of the province of Deidre O'Brien?

00:25:38 ◼   ► You know, does she have extra?

00:25:39 ◼   ► Like, I don't know how that works, the dynamic is.

00:25:42 ◼   ► Is Carole Surface gonna be more like,

00:25:43 ◼   ► you really need to focus on the people who aren't retail.

00:25:46 ◼   ► Deidre is still gonna focus on retail

00:25:47 ◼   ► and then obviously we'll still use the HR infrastructure

00:25:50 ◼   ► which reports to you how much that is

00:25:53 ◼   ► or how much it is that Deidre O'Brien

00:25:55 ◼   ► like has other things she needs to deal with

00:25:57 ◼   ► and doesn't need to spend all this time talking

00:25:59 ◼   ► about the retail employees and unionization

00:26:02 ◼   ► and all of that.

00:26:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:26:04 ◼   ► - She's got stores of inner store to build.

00:26:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, good luck to Carol iPad.

00:26:10 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Ladder.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Look, let's be real, I'm sure you, like me, have a tendency to put some things off

00:26:18 ◼   ► until the very last minute.

00:26:20 ◼   ► Whether it's going to renew your driving license, getting your next dental checkup

00:26:23 ◼   ► on the books, or getting around to that pile of home improvement projects you've got

00:26:28 ◼   ► going on, you know the kind of things I'm talking about.

00:26:30 ◼   ► We all have these things.

00:26:32 ◼   ► While most of the time it works out, the one thing in life that you really cannot afford

00:26:35 ◼   ► to wait on is setting up term coverage life insurance.

00:26:38 ◼   ► You've probably seen life insurance commercials on TV and thought "I'm going to get to

00:26:42 ◼   ► that" but this isn't something you should wait on.

00:26:46 ◼   ► Choose life insurance through Ladder today.

00:26:48 ◼   ► Ladder is 100% digital, no doctors, no needles, no paperwork when you apply for $3 million

00:26:54 ◼   ► in coverage or less.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Just answer a few questions about your health in an application.

00:26:59 ◼   ► Ladder's customers rate them 4.8 out of 5 on Trustpilot and they made Forbes best life

00:27:03 ◼   ► insurance list of 2021.

00:27:06 ◼   ► You just need a few minutes and a phone or laptop to apply.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Ladder's smart algorithms work in real time so you'll find out if you're instantly

00:27:13 ◼   ► approved.

00:27:14 ◼   ► There are no hidden fees, you can cancel at any time and you'll get a full refund if

00:27:18 ◼   ► you change your mind in the first 30 days.

00:27:21 ◼   ► Ladder policies are issued by insurers with long proven histories of paying claims.

00:27:25 ◼   ► They're rated A and A+ by AM Best.

00:27:28 ◼   ► And since life insurance costs more as you age, now is the time to cross it off your

00:27:34 ◼   ► list.

00:27:35 ◼   ► done. Go to ladderlife.com/upgrade today to see if you're instantly approved. That's

00:27:42 ◼   ► L-A-D-D-E-R-L-I-F-E.com/upgrade. One last time ladderlife.com/upgrade. A thanks to Ladder

00:27:48 ◼   ► for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:27:53 ◼   ► It is report card season.

00:27:55 ◼   ► It is.

00:27:56 ◼   ► A couple of weeks ago we had the report card, well I had it, sent to me along with, how

00:28:02 ◼   ► How many people do you send the report card to now?

00:28:05 ◼   ► To complete?

00:28:07 ◼   ► - Oh, it's a large list.

00:28:09 ◼   ► I'm not gonna disclose how large it is,

00:28:11 ◼   ► although I don't actually know.

00:28:12 ◼   ► Not everybody fills it out.

00:28:13 ◼   ► So 55 filled it out this year.

00:28:15 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:28:16 ◼   ► And so we get it, it has a bunch of questions on it.

00:28:18 ◼   ► You know, like, what do you think of this?

00:28:19 ◼   ► What do you think of that?

00:28:21 ◼   ► Everyone goes through, fills out their scores,

00:28:23 ◼   ► send it back to you with comments.

00:28:26 ◼   ► You collate those comments and create a score

00:28:28 ◼   ► of kind of people in the community

00:28:30 ◼   ► who are observers of Apple.

00:28:32 ◼   ► I filled it out, you do not fill it out,

00:28:36 ◼   ► but today I will be asking you for your scores.

00:28:38 ◼   ► I wanna go through each category.

00:28:41 ◼   ► We'll take a look at where it was scored,

00:28:42 ◼   ► how it compares to years prior.

00:28:45 ◼   ► You can give your scores, I'll give mine.

00:28:46 ◼   ► And I've also pulled out some, I think,

00:28:48 ◼   ► really interesting quotes from some of the people

00:28:51 ◼   ► that sent this stuff in.

00:28:52 ◼   ► So we'll start, we'll go in the order

00:28:53 ◼   ► that the Six Colors Report card is ordered in.

00:28:58 ◼   ► we'll start with the Mac, which received an A- grade of 4.2 out of 5, which is a year-over-year

00:29:04 ◼   ► decline. So it was 4.6 last year, 4.7 the year before. Jason, what would you rate the

00:29:11 ◼   ► Mac in 2022?

00:29:13 ◼   ► I'm gonna say 4.

00:29:16 ◼   ► Okay. What makes you say 4?

00:29:19 ◼   ► And I think what's going on in the survey is similar to what makes me say 4. It's a

00:29:23 ◼   ► a decline from the debut of the M1 Macs in 2020,

00:29:27 ◼   ► still a very good score.

00:29:28 ◼   ► And I think four out of five is a very good score.

00:29:31 ◼   ► The reason it's not five out of five,

00:29:34 ◼   ► I mean, they have had some problems shipping Macs.

00:29:38 ◼   ► I think that is an issue.

00:29:40 ◼   ► And so the MacBook Pro and the Mac Mini

00:29:44 ◼   ► didn't ship until 2023, right?

00:29:46 ◼   ► And this is for 2022.

00:29:48 ◼   ► So I would mark them down for struggling with that,

00:29:51 ◼   ► for not fulfilling their promise

00:29:52 ◼   ► to close the Apple Silicon transition.

00:29:54 ◼   ► The Mac Pro is still floating out there as well.

00:29:57 ◼   ► But I'm generally positive on that side.

00:29:59 ◼   ► I would also mark them down for things like system settings

00:30:04 ◼   ► and I'm not gonna really mark them down on the Mac

00:30:07 ◼   ► for stage manager.

00:30:08 ◼   ► I think it's okay.

00:30:09 ◼   ► It's not for me.

00:30:10 ◼   ► But the system settings thing is a good example

00:30:13 ◼   ► of an own goal on a thing that like was not great,

00:30:17 ◼   ► but has not been, has been redone and is also not great.

00:30:22 ◼   ► and we've detailed that in the past.

00:30:23 ◼   ► So I could have given them five out of five,

00:30:25 ◼   ► but I feel like, you know, you know me, Myke,

00:30:28 ◼   ► I don't give five out of five for almost anything

00:30:30 ◼   ► because, you know, nothing is so perfect

00:30:34 ◼   ► that it can't be complained about.

00:30:35 ◼   ► - That's what they do say that about you.

00:30:37 ◼   ► That is a thing people say,

00:30:38 ◼   ► people say that specifically and about you quite a lot.

00:30:41 ◼   ► I, for me, it's easy five out of five.

00:30:43 ◼   ► Like, let me tell you why, right?

00:30:44 ◼   ► The MacBook Air, the M2 MacBook Air

00:30:46 ◼   ► is my favorite Mac of all time.

00:30:49 ◼   ► It is perfect, in my opinion.

00:30:51 ◼   ► The Mac Studio came out in 2022.

00:30:54 ◼   ► That is a whole new Mac that didn't exist before.

00:30:56 ◼   ► - It's true, and I love it.

00:30:57 ◼   ► - And the Studio Display, which wasn't perfect,

00:30:59 ◼   ► but I really wanted it and I love it.

00:31:02 ◼   ► I feel like-

00:31:02 ◼   ► - Those are arguments for five out of five, yeah.

00:31:04 ◼   ► - I feel like if these products would not have come out

00:31:06 ◼   ► at the start of the year, but came out later in the year,

00:31:08 ◼   ► the score would be higher than 4.2.

00:31:10 ◼   ► That's what I think.

00:31:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that might be the case.

00:31:15 ◼   ► I mean, it's an interesting dynamic.

00:31:17 ◼   ► There's definitely a what have you done for me lately,

00:31:19 ◼   ► what's happened recently kind of vibe that happens

00:31:21 ◼   ► in these votes in general.

00:31:23 ◼   ► And what was last left with them was that period

00:31:26 ◼   ► where no Macs were announced,

00:31:27 ◼   ► when everybody thought we'd be getting new MacBook Pros.

00:31:31 ◼   ► - Alex Cox wrote, "It still feels like a Mac Renaissance

00:31:34 ◼   ► with the redesigned MacBook Air.

00:31:36 ◼   ► There feels like a default to what most consumers want

00:31:39 ◼   ► when they get an app or any laptop.

00:31:41 ◼   ► The lack of a Mac Pro update is disappointing,

00:31:44 ◼   ► but the M series of Macs we've gotten so far

00:31:46 ◼   ► are any indication it will be worth the wait."

00:31:50 ◼   ► John Syracuse said "I'm not dinging Apple for failing to "completely transition"

00:31:55 ◼   ► to Apple Silicon in 2022, but the continued lack of a larger than 24-inch iMac combined

00:32:00 ◼   ► with the inability to transition all the existing plain old M1 Macs to M2 means the Mac line

00:32:06 ◼   ► lacks the lustre of last year's M1-powered supergroup."

00:32:09 ◼   ► I think a lot of people might echo what John said there about wanting the M1s to turn over.

00:32:15 ◼   ► I know that you've been talking about, you've been kind of disappointed in the iMac as it

00:32:18 ◼   ► kind of just stayed where it was.

00:32:21 ◼   ► And Shelly Brisbane said,

00:32:24 ◼   ► "In a year where some were doubtless disappointed

00:32:27 ◼   ► that a favorite product wasn't refreshed,

00:32:29 ◼   ► the new Mac Studio and improved Macbook Air

00:32:31 ◼   ► are worthy additions to the lineup

00:32:32 ◼   ► advancing the silicon transition."

00:32:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, a lot of positivity there, right?

00:32:38 ◼   ► But is it perfect?

00:32:40 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:32:41 ◼   ► I mean, I think giving it a five is perfectly reasonable.

00:32:43 ◼   ► Giving it a four is, I think, pretty reasonable too.

00:32:45 ◼   ► - I think so too.

00:32:46 ◼   ► I think the Mac is in a very, very good place.

00:32:49 ◼   ► - I think it would be really, really hard

00:32:51 ◼   ► to beat the 2020 score of 4.7.

00:32:54 ◼   ► Like, I can't imagine them being able to surprise us

00:32:59 ◼   ► to the level that they did with the first round of M1 Macs.

00:33:03 ◼   ► Like, just how powerful they were

00:33:05 ◼   ► and how efficient they were.

00:33:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, that's the big moment

00:33:10 ◼   ► where you do a processor transition is,

00:33:12 ◼   ► that's always gonna be the best,

00:33:13 ◼   ► 'cause after that, it's incremental again.

00:33:15 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:33:16 ◼   ► You always do these great charts.

00:33:18 ◼   ► What are these kind of charts called,

00:33:20 ◼   ► where it's like the lines with the circles?

00:33:22 ◼   ► Is there like a particular name for this kind of chart?

00:33:24 ◼   ► - I don't know, I don't know.

00:33:26 ◼   ► - We'll call it the circle line chart.

00:33:28 ◼   ► My favorite circle line chart

00:33:29 ◼   ► in the Six Colors Report card is the iPhone,

00:33:32 ◼   ► because it's just incredibly consistent, right?

00:33:34 ◼   ► Like the variance year to year is never more than like 0.5,

00:33:39 ◼   ► right, like it's incredibly consistent.

00:33:42 ◼   ► The iPhone scored a B plus, a 3.9 average.

00:33:46 ◼   ► Where would you have put the iPhone for 2022?

00:33:48 ◼   ► - You know, it's good, but boring.

00:33:54 ◼   ► I think I would probably give it a four.

00:33:56 ◼   ► I thought about giving it a three.

00:33:58 ◼   ► I don't love the low end iPhone being kind of like separated.

00:34:03 ◼   ► I understand it, but I don't have to like it.

00:34:04 ◼   ► I don't like the mini being dropped.

00:34:07 ◼   ► I don't like the old processor on the lower end models.

00:34:11 ◼   ► I don't, you know, it is also year three of this design

00:34:14 ◼   ► which I don't love.

00:34:15 ◼   ► I think that the pro design is not,

00:34:18 ◼   ► I mean, again, everybody can have their,

00:34:20 ◼   ► have their own personal style opinions,

00:34:21 ◼   ► but like, I don't like the iPhone pro design.

00:34:24 ◼   ► I don't like how heavy it is.

00:34:25 ◼   ► I don't like the stainless steel.

00:34:26 ◼   ► I don't like the look of it.

00:34:27 ◼   ► I think the look of the lower end phones is better.

00:34:30 ◼   ► And then this year they stuck a better processor

00:34:33 ◼   ► and a much better camera in the higher end phone,

00:34:35 ◼   ► making it so much better on a spec basis,

00:34:38 ◼   ► but still not a phone that I particularly like

00:34:41 ◼   ► to look at or carry because of the weight

00:34:43 ◼   ► and the choices they made

00:34:46 ◼   ► and the color choices that they made.

00:34:48 ◼   ► All of that is, you know, not my favorite.

00:34:52 ◼   ► I do love the features that they brought though this year.

00:34:54 ◼   ► The dynamic island is great.

00:34:56 ◼   ► The always on screen is pretty cool.

00:34:57 ◼   ► That camera is amazing.

00:34:59 ◼   ► So there's a lot of positivity there too.

00:35:01 ◼   ► So I kind of throw it in at four because the,

00:35:05 ◼   ► and it's what you said, right?

00:35:06 ◼   ► It's the iPhone is, the iPhone abides, right?

00:35:10 ◼   ► - And I own is there and Apple focuses on it

00:35:14 ◼   ► and makes sure that it's good and it is good.

00:35:17 ◼   ► But I have enough quibbles with it

00:35:20 ◼   ► that it gives me pause to give it a four out of five.

00:35:23 ◼   ► - Jessica Dennis wrote,

00:35:24 ◼   ► "I wish I hadn't traded in my iPhone 13 mini

00:35:26 ◼   ► "for the iPhone 14 Pro.

00:35:27 ◼   ► "It was small and pink and my new phone

00:35:29 ◼   ► "is not better enough that I don't miss that."

00:35:32 ◼   ► Just made me think, you know, you're saying about like,

00:35:35 ◼   ► is a big jump to go to the Pro

00:35:37 ◼   ► 'cause not only is it bigger, it is heavier.

00:35:39 ◼   ► Like I would like to see them move away from stainless steel.

00:35:42 ◼   ► I've really enjoyed it for the years that I've had it.

00:35:45 ◼   ► Like it being nice and shiny with the gold is great,

00:35:48 ◼   ► but I wouldn't mind a weight reduction on the iPhone.

00:35:52 ◼   ► - I think, you know, I think the whole iPhone 12, 13,

00:35:56 ◼   ► 14 Pro design, I think it's a misfire.

00:35:59 ◼   ► I think that it's not only leaving aside the lack of color

00:36:03 ◼   ► and the need for colors are to come in there.

00:36:06 ◼   ► The matte back, whereas the base model has the shiny back,

00:36:11 ◼   ► I think the matte back is boring

00:36:13 ◼   ► and doesn't look as good as the shiny back.

00:36:15 ◼   ► And the stainless is too heavy

00:36:16 ◼   ► and weighs the whole thing down

00:36:18 ◼   ► and the benefit of having the stainless ring.

00:36:19 ◼   ► So I've been using the 14 Pro

00:36:21 ◼   ► because I wanna use the Dynamic Island,

00:36:24 ◼   ► which there hasn't been as much Dynamic Island stuff

00:36:26 ◼   ► as I would like, although I'm looking forward to it

00:36:28 ◼   ► when baseball season comes around especially,

00:36:29 ◼   ► I wanna check that out.

00:36:31 ◼   ► But I've been using that and my mini is on my desk here

00:36:34 ◼   ► and I keep looking at it.

00:36:35 ◼   ► And I feel what Jessica Dennis feels, which is,

00:36:38 ◼   ► I'm not sure, other than the Dynamic Island,

00:36:41 ◼   ► the benefit that I'm getting out of here,

00:36:43 ◼   ► like I, let me put it this way.

00:36:46 ◼   ► If I didn't write about iPhone stuff as part of my job

00:36:50 ◼   ► and therefore want to see the latest and greatest

00:36:54 ◼   ► with especially the Dynamic Island,

00:36:56 ◼   ► I would just go back to the Mini that's sitting on my desk.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Like I would, because it, you know,

00:37:03 ◼   ► I don't think that the trade-off is worth it.

00:37:05 ◼   ► And part of that is just my objections in general

00:37:07 ◼   ► to some of the decisions they made on the pro side.

00:37:10 ◼   ► And you know, if you like your iPhone Pro, that's great.

00:37:12 ◼   ► I just, there are decisions they made

00:37:13 ◼   ► that we have now lived with for three years

00:37:16 ◼   ► that I disagree with, that I think are not,

00:37:19 ◼   ► were not the right ones.

00:37:20 ◼   ► So I hope they try to make that phone lighter.

00:37:22 ◼   ► And I hope they try to make it like,

00:37:24 ◼   ► not only weight lighter,

00:37:25 ◼   ► but like literally lighter and brighter.

00:37:27 ◼   ► And 'cause why should that phone be so boring

00:37:32 ◼   ► and did serious, it's ridiculous.

00:37:34 ◼   ► - So I gave it a four as well.

00:37:36 ◼   ► Like this wasn't like a mind blowing year,

00:37:39 ◼   ► but they did the things that I wanted them to do,

00:37:41 ◼   ► the always on display.

00:37:43 ◼   ► They brought the 48 megapixel camera,

00:37:45 ◼   ► but I don't think they really took full advantage of that.

00:37:48 ◼   ► And you can as a user, but it's complicated.

00:37:51 ◼   ► But the dynamic island kind of saved it for me

00:37:54 ◼   ► as this like this delightful little thing

00:37:56 ◼   ► that I wasn't expecting them to do

00:37:58 ◼   ► the way that they did it, right?

00:37:59 ◼   ► Like none of us did.

00:38:01 ◼   ► And it's been great.

00:38:02 ◼   ► Like you, I wish that there were more live activities

00:38:05 ◼   ► using the Dynamic Island than there are,

00:38:07 ◼   ► but the ones that do, I always really enjoy it.

00:38:10 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett wrote,

00:38:11 ◼   ► "The iPhone 14 Pro's Dynamic Island

00:38:13 ◼   ► "is the biggest UI change to come to iOS

00:38:16 ◼   ► "since the iPhone 10 ditched the home button back in 2017."

00:38:19 ◼   ► It is a big change, and I do hope that,

00:38:22 ◼   ► this is me now saying this, it is a big change.

00:38:24 ◼   ► I do hope that developers continue to embrace it.

00:38:26 ◼   ► There's been some that seem like obvious ones to me

00:38:29 ◼   ► that yet still haven't.

00:38:31 ◼   ► And it could just be one of those things

00:38:33 ◼   ► that like it's big companies and they take a long time

00:38:35 ◼   ► and Apple dropped it in September

00:38:36 ◼   ► and it's still not the time for people.

00:38:38 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:38:39 ◼   ► I want to read this one last quote from Christina Warren

00:38:42 ◼   ► who said, "The iPhone lineup this year,

00:38:44 ◼   ► like every year is good.

00:38:45 ◼   ► I'm no longer wowed by the iPhone the way I once was,

00:38:48 ◼   ► but that also doesn't matter

00:38:49 ◼   ► because the iPhone remains the best phone available."

00:38:51 ◼   ► Which I just think is like a really nice way

00:38:53 ◼   ► of putting it to be honest.

00:38:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is the challenge with the iPhone, right?

00:38:58 ◼   ► is like, we can criticize it, but like Apple,

00:39:02 ◼   ► Apple's very diligent in making sure that the iPhone

00:39:04 ◼   ► kind of motors along, even though we can criticize it.

00:39:07 ◼   ► It's not a product that we're like, what are they doing?

00:39:10 ◼   ► Right, like it's not quite like that.

00:39:12 ◼   ► - No.

00:39:13 ◼   ► The iPad got a C grade, three average.

00:39:18 ◼   ► That is the lowest grade the iPad has received

00:39:21 ◼   ► in all of the years that you have been doing

00:39:23 ◼   ► the report card.

00:39:25 ◼   ► - It is.

00:39:25 ◼   ► - Which is. - It is.

00:39:26 ◼   ► I mean, if you think back from now all the way to 2015,

00:39:30 ◼   ► I don't know if this is necessarily the worst year.

00:39:32 ◼   ► However, I think it's the kind of chain of disappointment

00:39:37 ◼   ► that has led to this, right?

00:39:39 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:39:40 ◼   ► - What is your grade?

00:39:41 ◼   ► - I am, I was tempted to give it a two,

00:39:45 ◼   ► but I'm gonna give it a three,

00:39:47 ◼   ► but it's one of those three pointing down kind of threes.

00:39:50 ◼   ► And here is, I don't know.

00:39:54 ◼   ► - I see what you're saying.

00:39:55 ◼   ► - It's like, you know, there's nothing more boring

00:39:57 ◼   ► than hearing people explain why

00:39:58 ◼   ► that they would give things a half rating

00:40:00 ◼   ► if the scale had half ratings.

00:40:01 ◼   ► I hate it.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And I was the one who chose no half ratings

00:40:03 ◼   ► 'cause I don't wanna hear about your half ratings.

00:40:05 ◼   ► Choose.

00:40:06 ◼   ► And I've chosen a three, but just to be clear,

00:40:09 ◼   ► I was not choosing between a three and a four.

00:40:10 ◼   ► I was choosing between a three and a two here.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Look, the great,

00:40:14 ◼   ► and I think that the panelists really captured it.

00:40:17 ◼   ► The great conundrum about the iPad right now

00:40:20 ◼   ► is that the iPad, individual iPads are great.

00:40:25 ◼   ► Like iPadOS is incredibly capable.

00:40:28 ◼   ► Individual iPads are great.

00:40:31 ◼   ► They have great features.

00:40:32 ◼   ► There are little quirks here and there,

00:40:34 ◼   ► but like they have great features.

00:40:36 ◼   ► You could buy an iPad Air or a 10th generation iPad

00:40:39 ◼   ► and be very happy with those products.

00:40:41 ◼   ► They're very good.

00:40:42 ◼   ► You could buy an iPad Pro and be happy with it.

00:40:44 ◼   ► However, as a whole, looking at every product

00:40:50 ◼   ► that's available, looking at what the features are,

00:40:52 ◼   ► looking at what the prices are,

00:40:54 ◼   ► just pondering where the iPad is going,

00:40:58 ◼   ► where it's been, what it's trying to be,

00:41:00 ◼   ► doesn't make a lick of sense.

00:41:02 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense.

00:41:03 ◼   ► And while I'm willing to have some sympathy for Apple

00:41:07 ◼   ► 'cause of the supply chain issues

00:41:09 ◼   ► and some other stuff that they've run into,

00:41:11 ◼   ► the bottom line is they have had a long time

00:41:13 ◼   ► to get the iPad to make sense and they have failed.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And maybe they will someday make the iPad make sense again,

00:41:19 ◼   ► the iPad as a whole. But right now, they've got new features that are presumably going

00:41:24 ◼   ► to be in all iPads that have debuted in the low-end iPad. They've got a high-end iPad

00:41:29 ◼   ► called iPad Pro that still lacks, for example, their Pro software on it, even though it's

00:41:33 ◼   ► got the M2 chip now. They have got, uh, the features on the 10th generation iPad aren't

00:41:41 ◼   ► on the iPad Pro because the iPad Pro has unchanged since 2018. I think actually a bunch of people

00:41:46 ◼   ► I've seen anecdotally, decided to upgrade their iPad Pros to the M2 model from the 2018 model,

00:41:52 ◼   ► feeling like, you know, it was time to upgrade. And like, yeah, I guess it is, except it's largely

00:41:58 ◼   ► unchanged. The 2018 iPad was so powerful as it was that is your iPad really from 2018 still being

00:42:04 ◼   ► taxed, your iPad Pro, compared to the current model other than like external display support

00:42:11 ◼   ► or stage manager. The hardware situation is super confused. And while I, again, I'm sympathetic

00:42:24 ◼   ► to Apple with supply chain issues and all that stuff being in a bit of a jam here. But at the

00:42:30 ◼   ► end of the day, if I'm looking at the iPad line, it doesn't make sense. And that's on Apple.

00:42:37 ◼   ► and the fact that they were willing.

00:42:39 ◼   ► I think the most damning thing to me about the iPad

00:42:42 ◼   ► this year is not stage manager,

00:42:44 ◼   ► which I think Federico hates it.

00:42:46 ◼   ► I think it's okay.

00:42:47 ◼   ► I don't think it's great.

00:42:48 ◼   ► I think it's okay.

00:42:49 ◼   ► I think I understand what they're trying to do there.

00:42:52 ◼   ► I've got some frustrations about it,

00:42:54 ◼   ► but I don't use my iPad as aggressively

00:42:57 ◼   ► as Federico tries to,

00:42:58 ◼   ► so I understand that it doesn't meet his standards

00:43:00 ◼   ► and it isn't what he's looking for there.

00:43:03 ◼   ► But for me, the most damning thing

00:43:05 ◼   ► is that they decided to push out that M2 iPad Pro

00:43:08 ◼   ► with essentially nothing new about it,

00:43:10 ◼   ► rather than, I think what they should have done,

00:43:13 ◼   ► which is just wait six months, wait nine months,

00:43:17 ◼   ► wait a year, and actually do a proper new iPad Pro,

00:43:22 ◼   ► because of all the products for them

00:43:25 ◼   ► to just decide to let sit there,

00:43:29 ◼   ► the iPad Pro, I mean, it has really led for me

00:43:34 ◼   ► to a, that combined with that touch screen rumor

00:43:36 ◼   ► that we heard about, touch screen max,

00:43:38 ◼   ► led me to a real crisis of,

00:43:41 ◼   ► almost like an existential crisis about the iPad.

00:43:44 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm now starting to think

00:43:46 ◼   ► the iPad is a brilliant product line

00:43:49 ◼   ► and the iPad Pro is a mistake

00:43:52 ◼   ► because they don't know what to do with it.

00:43:54 ◼   ► They can't put, you know, they can't equip it properly.

00:43:57 ◼   ► They can't even update it properly.

00:43:59 ◼   ► And then you look at the iPad Air

00:44:00 ◼   ► and you're like, "The iPad Air is right there

00:44:01 ◼   ► "and it's pretty good, right?"

00:44:02 ◼   ► Like think how positive the iPad lineup would be

00:44:06 ◼   ► if they weren't trying so hard with stage manager

00:44:10 ◼   ► and the magic keyboard and all of that stuff at the high end

00:44:15 ◼   ► and instead we're like, oh, look at this great iPad Air

00:44:17 ◼   ► and the 10th generation iPad

00:44:19 ◼   ► and it's a really nice solid tablet

00:44:21 ◼   ► within some lower constraints

00:44:24 ◼   ► rather than pushing it to the high end.

00:44:26 ◼   ► But before you say, well, it's those high-end power users

00:44:30 ◼   ► who are trying to make the iPad,

00:44:31 ◼   ► destroyed the iPad into something it's not,

00:44:33 ◼   ► I will just say since 2015, I think, 2014,

00:44:37 ◼   ► Apple has been selling a product called iPad Pro.

00:44:40 ◼   ► So Apple brought this on itself and here we are.

00:44:43 ◼   ► So, you know, the reason I don't give it a two

00:44:48 ◼   ► is because I do think the individual iPads are still great

00:44:51 ◼   ► and I use my iPad probably more than any other Apple device

00:44:54 ◼   ► and I love it.

00:44:56 ◼   ► My frustration is I think it,

00:44:58 ◼   ► I feel like it is in a bad place,

00:45:03 ◼   ► that the product line as a whole is kind of coasting.

00:45:07 ◼   ► And while there are good things that are happening

00:45:09 ◼   ► in parts of the iPad line,

00:45:11 ◼   ► it lacks any kind of cohesive vision,

00:45:15 ◼   ► at least that we can see.

00:45:17 ◼   ► And my hope for the iPad in the future

00:45:19 ◼   ► is that we finally see what Apple is trying to do here.

00:45:25 ◼   ► But we talk about this a lot about how more than half

00:45:30 ◼   ► of Apple's revenue is the iPhone

00:45:32 ◼   ► and the iPhone has to be the priority

00:45:34 ◼   ► and it does have to be a priority.

00:45:35 ◼   ► And then we had that moment where Apple's like,

00:45:38 ◼   ► no, no, we're committed to the Mac

00:45:39 ◼   ► and we've seen the Apple Silicon stuff on the Mac.

00:45:42 ◼   ► And then you look at the iPad and it's,

00:45:44 ◼   ► I know that there's some progress happening there,

00:45:46 ◼   ► but it's very hard to look at the current state

00:45:48 ◼   ► of the iPad line as a whole and not think this is in part

00:45:51 ◼   ► because Apple just hasn't thought it was important enough

00:45:54 ◼   ► because it's embarrassing.

00:45:56 ◼   ► Like rolling out some of those features on the low end iPad

00:45:58 ◼   ► and then just pushing the iPad Pro M2 update out

00:46:01 ◼   ► with nothing.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Again, it's a bad look.

00:46:04 ◼   ► And the fact that they thought that they could just like

00:46:07 ◼   ► push it out there and make everybody wait for 18 months

00:46:10 ◼   ► for another iPad Pro generation, I don't know.

00:46:13 ◼   ► I feel like it says a lot about,

00:46:16 ◼   ► not that Apple doesn't care, but that Apple is not,

00:46:21 ◼   ► you know, they haven't executed.

00:46:24 ◼   ► I guess that's what I'd say.

00:46:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, I gave it a two.

00:46:28 ◼   ► This is the product line I'm the most disappointed with.

00:46:31 ◼   ► As I wrote, I said that Apple had one job

00:46:33 ◼   ► to do with the iPad Pro this year and couldn't get it done.

00:46:36 ◼   ► - And they didn't do it?

00:46:36 ◼   ► - They just didn't do it, which was do something.

00:46:39 ◼   ► For me, what I'm referencing is the 11 inch, right?

00:46:42 ◼   ► - And the iPad Pros from 2022 are fine, right?

00:46:47 ◼   ► This is the conundrum, right?

00:46:48 ◼   ► Is they're fine, but they're also the same.

00:46:53 ◼   ► And I think that says so much to me about how they're,

00:46:58 ◼   ► that Apple seems to be content to just let it ride.

00:47:01 ◼   ► And those of us who are observing the iPad as a platform

00:47:05 ◼   ► say, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't let it ride.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Don't do that.

00:47:10 ◼   ► And they did it.

00:47:11 ◼   ► - Let's see what Federico has to say.

00:47:12 ◼   ► I think it's great that I can now use my iPad Pro

00:47:15 ◼   ► of an external display and have a separate set

00:47:17 ◼   ► of app windows on it.

00:47:19 ◼   ► The problem is everything else.

00:47:20 ◼   ► In practical terms, aside from more concurrent

00:47:22 ◼   ► Windows on screen, iPadOS 16 doesn't let me get more things done on a daily basis compared

00:47:27 ◼   ► to iPadOS 15. I want to continue loving the iPad, but I also need to get my work done

00:47:33 ◼   ► and I'm tired of having to rely on supplementing my iPad Pro over Mac mini to do all the things

00:47:38 ◼   ► I need to do.

00:47:41 ◼   ► This reminds me of what David Sparks said I think last year, which set like a fire in

00:47:47 ◼   ► my brain which is just like I'm just gonna use the iPad for what it's meant for and I'm

00:47:52 ◼   ► gonna stop trying to make it do something it's not. I feel like Federico's kinda coming

00:47:58 ◼   ► to that now as well.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Steven Aquino wrote, "It feels like Groundhog's Day with iPadOS every year, standing at odds

00:48:06 ◼   ► with the top-notch hardware of the iPad." It's a beautiful way of putting that thing

00:48:09 ◼   ► that we say all the time, right? Of like, software's just gonna catch up with the hardware,

00:48:14 ◼   ► any day now, I suppose?

00:48:17 ◼   ► And Aline Sim says, "The iPad product line is more robust

00:48:20 ◼   ► than it's ever been, but none of the models

00:48:23 ◼   ► fit my needs well."

00:48:25 ◼   ► - It's kind of a mess.

00:48:28 ◼   ► As down as I am on the iPad in 2022,

00:48:31 ◼   ► I think they can get it together.

00:48:32 ◼   ► I mean, like the changes they made

00:48:33 ◼   ► on the 10th generation iPad are good changes, right?

00:48:36 ◼   ► Like moving the FaceTime camera is a good change.

00:48:41 ◼   ► But then they like, they said the iPad Pro,

00:48:44 ◼   ► "Meh, wait a year and a half.

00:48:47 ◼   ► "We're just gonna give you the same old thing now."

00:48:49 ◼   ► I think that's the root of it.

00:48:50 ◼   ► That and people who are very angry about Stage Manager.

00:48:52 ◼   ► I mean, for me, I think that's the root of it,

00:48:54 ◼   ► is by all accounts, and again,

00:48:57 ◼   ► Apple didn't announce anything, but by all accounts,

00:48:59 ◼   ► there was a next-gen iPad Pro that they were working on

00:49:02 ◼   ► that they basically didn't ship.

00:49:05 ◼   ► And it feels very much like they had to punt on that.

00:49:08 ◼   ► And as a result, you've got these new features

00:49:11 ◼   ► in the product line that are not in your high end product.

00:49:13 ◼   ► And that's not a great place to be in.

00:49:15 ◼   ► I'm sure that people at Apple know

00:49:16 ◼   ► that's not a great place to be in.

00:49:17 ◼   ► I'm sure they're frustrated that they couldn't get there.

00:49:20 ◼   ► But in the end, it's not my job to pat them on the back

00:49:23 ◼   ► and say, you'll get them next time.

00:49:24 ◼   ► It is my job to call it out and say, you blew it.

00:49:27 ◼   ► I'm sure there are reasons.

00:49:29 ◼   ► I'm sure it was hard.

00:49:30 ◼   ► I'm sure the supply chain didn't help.

00:49:31 ◼   ► I get it.

00:49:32 ◼   ► But bottom line is you punt it on the iPad Pro.

00:49:36 ◼   ► And if the answer is, well, what should we have done?

00:49:38 ◼   ► and the answer is not ship the M2 iPad Pro

00:49:41 ◼   ► and try to ship the next generation iPad Pro sooner

00:49:44 ◼   ► than a year and a half from now.

00:49:46 ◼   ► And maybe the answer would be, well, production line

00:49:48 ◼   ► and this is the only chance we get it

00:49:49 ◼   ► and then we have to wait 18 months.

00:49:51 ◼   ► And it's like, wouldn't you rather have the M2 than the M1?

00:49:54 ◼   ► And honestly, no, no, I don't want reheated M1

00:49:59 ◼   ► with M2 chips in there

00:50:01 ◼   ► and everything else is exactly the same.

00:50:03 ◼   ► I think that was a bad choice on their part.

00:50:08 ◼   ► That shows maybe that they don't care so much

00:50:11 ◼   ► about the people who buy iPad Pros.

00:50:13 ◼   ► - And like frankly, we are this hard on them, we all are,

00:50:17 ◼   ► because of what they do in the other categories, right?

00:50:19 ◼   ► Like we see they have the ability,

00:50:21 ◼   ► but it feels like time and time again,

00:50:24 ◼   ► they miss with the iPad.

00:50:25 ◼   ► And it's like, but you have had,

00:50:27 ◼   ► you know, you've done so much on the Mac

00:50:28 ◼   ► and the iPhone remains so consistent.

00:50:30 ◼   ► What is it about the iPad specifically,

00:50:34 ◼   ► where we seem to be having these issues?

00:50:37 ◼   ► And that's why we keep coming back time and time again.

00:50:39 ◼   ► And it's why the iPad score is slipping.

00:50:43 ◼   ► It went back up in 2017

00:50:45 ◼   ► and it's just been on a steady decline ever since.

00:50:47 ◼   ► So moving to wearables and Apple Watch,

00:50:51 ◼   ► which got an A grade of a 4.4 average,

00:50:54 ◼   ► you kind of couple this with Apple Watch only

00:50:57 ◼   ► as its own category that received an A minus

00:51:00 ◼   ► of a 4.2 average.

00:51:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I used to only ask about Apple Watch

00:51:04 ◼   ► and only since 2019 have I changed it to be wearables.

00:51:07 ◼   ► because it was clear that that was the category.

00:51:11 ◼   ► And as a result, I didn't wanna kind of leave the,

00:51:13 ◼   ► lose the trend of Apple Watch.

00:51:15 ◼   ► At some point I'll drop that,

00:51:17 ◼   ► but for now the complexity remains.

00:51:18 ◼   ► If people ask me why I don't tweak these categories

00:51:21 ◼   ► year to year, this is why.

00:51:22 ◼   ► I think there's value in showing

00:51:24 ◼   ► here's how it's changed since 2015.

00:51:25 ◼   ► And if I tweak anything like this category,

00:51:29 ◼   ► I have to footnote it forever, essentially,

00:51:31 ◼   ► until I drop the data that was historical.

00:51:35 ◼   ► - So what is your overall wearable score

00:51:37 ◼   ► on your Apple Watch score?

00:51:38 ◼   ► - You know, I'll give it a four.

00:51:42 ◼   ► Apple Watch Ultra, good to see the Apple Watch platform

00:51:44 ◼   ► moving forward.

00:51:45 ◼   ► The main Apple Watch platform hasn't really moved forward

00:51:47 ◼   ► in quite a while now, but the Ultra was a move forward.

00:51:50 ◼   ► It's not as big a move forward.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Like the software doesn't seem to have really embraced

00:51:53 ◼   ► the Ultra, it seems like it's just a big Apple Watch,

00:51:55 ◼   ► but the hardware is very impressive.

00:51:57 ◼   ► That action button is an interesting idea

00:51:58 ◼   ► that I would like to see brought back perhaps

00:52:01 ◼   ► to the regular old Apple Watch at some point.

00:52:03 ◼   ► AirPods Pro 2 came out.

00:52:06 ◼   ► A lot of people call those out.

00:52:07 ◼   ► I love them, AirPods Pro 2.

00:52:09 ◼   ► I mean, I wouldn't have believed

00:52:10 ◼   ► that I would have loved the original AirPods

00:52:11 ◼   ► as much as I did.

00:52:12 ◼   ► I was very, very skeptical.

00:52:14 ◼   ► AirPods Pro 2, I mean,

00:52:16 ◼   ► then I started using AirPods Pro, which were great.

00:52:18 ◼   ► AirPods Pro 2 are amazing.

00:52:20 ◼   ► I love them.

00:52:21 ◼   ► The noise cancellation is incredible.

00:52:25 ◼   ► The sound is good.

00:52:26 ◼   ► It's pretty much everything I want

00:52:28 ◼   ► from a set of headphones that I would take around,

00:52:32 ◼   ► like not at my desk,

00:52:32 ◼   ► but that I go around and walk in the dog

00:52:36 ◼   ► or whatever, like all that stuff is happening.

00:52:38 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm pretty positive about it.

00:52:41 ◼   ► For, I don't know, I mean, the AirPods Max still exists

00:52:47 ◼   ► and hasn't been updated and it's not,

00:52:49 ◼   ► it's very weird and awkward.

00:52:50 ◼   ► And like I said about Apple Watch being kind of like

00:52:53 ◼   ► the main Apple Watch seems like it's kind of static

00:52:56 ◼   ► right now and that's enough for me not to give it

00:52:59 ◼   ► a five out of five.

00:53:00 ◼   ► - So you give a four for both?

00:53:02 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:53:03 ◼   ► For me, I give a 4 for the Apple Watch and a 5 for the overall category.

00:53:10 ◼   ► So with the Apple Watch, I think the Apple Watch Ultra is awesome, right?

00:53:14 ◼   ► Like it looks cool, they're doing a bunch of really interesting things in it.

00:53:17 ◼   ► It's something new and exciting.

00:53:20 ◼   ► But the Series 8, I still want a redesign of the regular Apple Watch and it's still

00:53:24 ◼   ► not happening and I can't fathom it at this point.

00:53:28 ◼   ► But AirPods 2, raw.

00:53:30 ◼   ► AirPods 2 might be the best thing Apple did last year, maybe the AirPods Pro 2 I should

00:53:35 ◼   ► say. It's in contention with me with the MacBook Air. I had my AirPods Pro in yesterday,

00:53:41 ◼   ► I wasn't listening to anything at the time, I could pause something or whatever, and I

00:53:45 ◼   ► whistled and I noticed my AirPods bring the volume down and I was like, what? Just every

00:53:51 ◼   ► now and then it gets me and I'm like, that adaptive transparency, the noise cancellation

00:53:56 ◼   ► is just unbelievable on something so small. The adaptive transparency is so good and I

00:54:02 ◼   ► love the volume control. It takes a little bit to get used to but once you get used to

00:54:07 ◼   ► it's an excellent addition. Quinn Nelson said AirPods Pro 2 are one of the greatest products

00:54:13 ◼   ► Apple has ever created. Marco Arment says the second generation AirPods Pro improved

00:54:17 ◼   ► on an already excellent product. Apple Watch Ultra was a bold risk to expand the watch

00:54:22 ◼   ► line up and it worked out very well.

00:54:24 ◼   ► And Alex Cox said, "I used to joke that Apple is the only company I trust with my menstrual

00:54:29 ◼   ► act physical, but the US Supreme Court made that monkey's paw into a harsh reality."

00:54:35 ◼   ► But this was the great thing about the Series A is the temperature thing that got added,

00:54:39 ◼   ► it was very singular and focused, but compared to the, what was it, six when they added the

00:54:45 ◼   ► blood oxygen, they actually had something you could use it for rather than just like,

00:54:50 ◼   ► "Hey, we do this now."

00:54:52 ◼   ► so they had an accurate story around the product.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Although I think overall the Series 8

00:54:56 ◼   ► didn't really move forward in a meaningful way.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Apple TV got a B grade with an average of 3.6.

00:55:06 ◼   ► What did you give it?

00:55:07 ◼   ► - I'm gonna say four.

00:55:13 ◼   ► - Oh, okay.

00:55:14 ◼   ► - Gonna be on the high side with this one.

00:55:17 ◼   ► I use Apple TV every day.

00:55:21 ◼   ► This year, they updated the product

00:55:24 ◼   ► and they made a cheaper version of the product,

00:55:26 ◼   ► which we've been asking them to do.

00:55:29 ◼   ► I feel like the Apple TV now makes sense

00:55:31 ◼   ► because Apple has put all of its stuff

00:55:34 ◼   ► on every box and TV that they can,

00:55:39 ◼   ► that what they,

00:55:42 ◼   ► the pressure's off the Apple TV in that way, right?

00:55:45 ◼   ► Like, it doesn't need to be the thing like,

00:55:47 ◼   ► well, if you want Apple stuff,

00:55:49 ◼   ► you gotta buy an Apple TV box and they're expensive.

00:55:51 ◼   ► And now it's more like, I don't know,

00:55:53 ◼   ► this year I feel more comfortable with the Apple TV

00:55:55 ◼   ► as being just a premium product that you pay more.

00:55:58 ◼   ► And do you get more?

00:56:00 ◼   ► I think there are arguments.

00:56:01 ◼   ► I try to keep up on those other boxes.

00:56:05 ◼   ► I have a Roku TV in my house.

00:56:07 ◼   ► I have a Fire TV.

00:56:09 ◼   ► I buy a new Fire TV stick or box every so often

00:56:12 ◼   ► just to keep up on the state of the art.

00:56:17 ◼   ► What I would say is if people are bothered

00:56:19 ◼   ► by the amount of sort of Apple TV marketing

00:56:21 ◼   ► that Apple does on the Apple TV,

00:56:24 ◼   ► they should see what is happening on the Roku

00:56:26 ◼   ► and on the Amazon products, because it's way worse.

00:56:30 ◼   ► Plus there's that argument about like those companies

00:56:33 ◼   ► want your data for various reasons.

00:56:35 ◼   ► And although you can turn that stuff off,

00:56:37 ◼   ► like Amazon's products especially,

00:56:39 ◼   ► they're marketing products.

00:56:40 ◼   ► Amazon products are sold to you at a loss or a discount

00:56:44 ◼   ► because they are trying to make it up on selling you stuff.

00:56:49 ◼   ► like that's just how it works. That's why I abandoned my Echo show. So having Apple

00:56:55 ◼   ► TV out there as a, I would say nicer, but more expensive equivalent, I feel more comfortable

00:57:03 ◼   ► with that. Now, Apple TV is a mess. In terms of the software, there are a lot of issues

00:57:08 ◼   ► with it. I've had remotes that become ghosts that flicker on the screen and I have to wipe

00:57:15 ◼   ► them and repair them and stuff. Some of the software is good, some of the

00:57:20 ◼   ► apps, some of the software is bad, but I will say I don't... I use it

00:57:31 ◼   ► every day and I still give it a good score. So that's what I would say is it's

00:57:36 ◼   ► not perfect but I think it's pretty good. And having used some of the alternatives,

00:57:40 ◼   ► I appreciate how good the Apple TV stuff is.

00:57:45 ◼   ► Plus being in Apple's ecosystem,

00:57:46 ◼   ► having the fitness app there and all that,

00:57:48 ◼   ► like that stuff is good too.

00:57:50 ◼   ► I'm not happy with everything they've done

00:57:51 ◼   ► in addition to their usual quirks.

00:57:53 ◼   ► They changed the behavior of the up next view

00:57:55 ◼   ► in the latest software update to make it feel more

00:57:57 ◼   ► like you're forced to watch an animated ad

00:58:00 ◼   ► while you're browsing what you wanna watch next.

00:58:02 ◼   ► Used to be when you browsed up next,

00:58:05 ◼   ► there was like a big picture of the thing

00:58:06 ◼   ► you were currently selecting

00:58:09 ◼   ► that was reinforcing what you were currently selecting.

00:58:12 ◼   ► And now that is a separate space for Apple to promote stuff.

00:58:15 ◼   ► And I will say it also feels like Apple has,

00:58:18 ◼   ► I feel like Apple TV used to be a little more

00:58:22 ◼   ► like Apple was trying to curate

00:58:23 ◼   ► the whole entertainment universe

00:58:25 ◼   ► that was available on Apple TV.

00:58:27 ◼   ► And that they also had the Apple TV tab

00:58:30 ◼   ► where you could get Apple TV Plus tab

00:58:32 ◼   ► where you could get their own content.

00:58:35 ◼   ► I don't feel that way anymore.

00:58:36 ◼   ► I feel like Apple is only now paying lip service

00:58:40 ◼   ► to the existence of other services.

00:58:42 ◼   ► And almost everything that I see is a promo

00:58:45 ◼   ► for a program on Apple TV+.

00:58:47 ◼   ► And while I understand it, I don't like it.

00:58:50 ◼   ► I preferred the approach that like in the TV+ tab,

00:58:53 ◼   ► it's all about TV+, but out in the main tab

00:58:57 ◼   ► of the TV app on Apple TV,

00:58:59 ◼   ► it should be a little more like,

00:59:02 ◼   ► many services are available on your Apple TV.

00:59:05 ◼   ► here are some things you could watch.

00:59:07 ◼   ► In fact, the system should know which ones are there

00:59:09 ◼   ► and linked and logged in and all of that,

00:59:11 ◼   ► linked to the TV app.

00:59:12 ◼   ► They should know that, and so it should be able to say,

00:59:14 ◼   ► oh, you have Paramount Plus,

00:59:16 ◼   ► did you know about this thing and all that?

00:59:18 ◼   ► And the truth is, nine times out of 10,

00:59:20 ◼   ► it feels like it's some, some,

00:59:21 ◼   ► often old Apple TV Plus stuff

00:59:23 ◼   ► that they're like trying to push my way.

00:59:25 ◼   ► And I don't, I don't love that about it,

00:59:27 ◼   ► because that makes them seem a little more Amazon-y,

00:59:30 ◼   ► but again, not to the extent of Amazon and Roku.

00:59:32 ◼   ► So anyway, that's my Apple TV state of the year.

00:59:37 ◼   ► How about you?

00:59:39 ◼   ► - I gave it a three.

00:59:40 ◼   ► I mean, and I'm giving it a three

00:59:42 ◼   ► based on everything you said.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Like I'm frustrated with them,

00:59:47 ◼   ► but like in a way that I expect them to do

00:59:49 ◼   ► some of this stuff, right?

00:59:50 ◼   ► Like it seemed like a natural thing that over time

00:59:54 ◼   ► they would trend more towards promoting their own stuff.

00:59:57 ◼   ► But really for me, I just feel like Apple is doing

01:00:01 ◼   ► purely what is needed and nothing more,

01:00:03 ◼   ► and there is more they could do.

01:00:05 ◼   ► They could do more for tvOS,

01:00:08 ◼   ► they could do more to make the TV app what it should be,

01:00:11 ◼   ► as you said, like an actual destination.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Netflix could be in there if Apple was willing

01:00:16 ◼   ► to give Netflix what they wanted,

01:00:17 ◼   ► which I still think they should do.

01:00:20 ◼   ► And they could also be doing more on hardware.

01:00:22 ◼   ► They could have even more cheaper options.

01:00:25 ◼   ► Like Benjamin Mayo made a good point

01:00:27 ◼   ► and said the most important thing for the Apple TV box

01:00:29 ◼   ► is to make it cheaper, and they did that.

01:00:30 ◼   ► And I think that's great, but it could still be cheaper.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Especially because they offer software versions

01:00:36 ◼   ► of the TV app, right?

01:00:39 ◼   ► - I feel like it's a more reasonable argument now

01:00:41 ◼   ► that Apple is making that, that more,

01:00:43 ◼   ► that Apple product, right?

01:00:44 ◼   ► That more expensive than the competition,

01:00:45 ◼   ► but you know, but it's also nicer.

01:00:47 ◼   ► 'Cause I do think that that's true.

01:00:49 ◼   ► And that when you compare it to not the rock bottom one,

01:00:53 ◼   ► but the one that sort of meets it in terms of specs,

01:00:56 ◼   ► again, the Apple one is more expensive,

01:00:58 ◼   ► but you can make that argument.

01:00:59 ◼   ► you're in the ecosystem, you get some extra things

01:01:01 ◼   ► and all of that.

01:01:02 ◼   ► It's at least arguable in a way that I think maybe

01:01:04 ◼   ► before it was not at all.

01:01:06 ◼   ► And I understand Apple not wanting to go down there.

01:01:09 ◼   ► And I also understand that part of the appeal is that

01:01:11 ◼   ► Apple is not gonna be using your data

01:01:13 ◼   ► like Amazon and Roku are.

01:01:16 ◼   ► But a lot of us want Apple to be more competitive

01:01:20 ◼   ► with those companies.

01:01:21 ◼   ► And basically say, you don't need to sell your data

01:01:24 ◼   ► to Amazon, we have a product that you can buy instead.

01:01:27 ◼   ► And the problem is that I don't think there are ever,

01:01:29 ◼   ► not only is Apple not gonna go down there,

01:01:31 ◼   ► but they're also never gonna beat companies

01:01:33 ◼   ► that are designed to undercut their price

01:01:37 ◼   ► in order to get more people so that they can get more data.

01:01:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, like it's great that they don't sell my data,

01:01:44 ◼   ► but they also should be giving me a good experience

01:01:46 ◼   ► of good recommendations, right?

01:01:48 ◼   ► - I agree, I mean, yes, yes.

01:01:49 ◼   ► We've talked about this before.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Like the, I mean, well, also the truth is Roku,

01:01:53 ◼   ► you can turn it off, right?

01:01:55 ◼   ► I mean, you can turn it off.

01:01:57 ◼   ► But I get it.

01:01:58 ◼   ► I get people wanting to buy into the Apple TV thing.

01:02:03 ◼   ► I think it can be overstated

01:02:04 ◼   ► about the differences between them.

01:02:06 ◼   ► But I don't know.

01:02:08 ◼   ► Like I said, I think bottom line,

01:02:09 ◼   ► three would be perfectly reasonable too.

01:02:12 ◼   ► I gave it four, but I see where you're coming from.

01:02:14 ◼   ► I just think it's one of those things

01:02:17 ◼   ► that over the last few years,

01:02:19 ◼   ► I have gone from being like,

01:02:21 ◼   ► I've got an Apple TV out here,

01:02:22 ◼   ► and then I've got a Roku over here,

01:02:23 ◼   ► and I've got an Amazon thing over here

01:02:25 ◼   ► on the various TVs in my house.

01:02:27 ◼   ► And like, my daughter has an Apple TV,

01:02:30 ◼   ► my mom has an Apple TV,

01:02:31 ◼   ► and we have multiple Apple TVs in our house now.

01:02:34 ◼   ► 'Cause it's reached the point where I'm like,

01:02:35 ◼   ► you know what, I'm not gonna,

01:02:37 ◼   ► I don't think that the experience on those other devices

01:02:40 ◼   ► is good enough and I'd rather spend for this and use it.

01:02:44 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:02:45 ◼   ► And Casey Liss wrote, "The remotes are great.

01:02:47 ◼   ► "I appreciate that the new one charges via USB-C.

01:02:50 ◼   ► "The software isn't perfect, but honestly it's consistent

01:02:53 ◼   ► "and mostly stays out of the way."

01:02:54 ◼   ► Which is, as you're saying, a good point, it's a reason to do it, right?

01:02:57 ◼   ► Like, the software might not be great, but it's not in your face either.

01:03:01 ◼   ► And it works.

01:03:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:02 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you in part by our friends over at ExpressVPN.

01:03:08 ◼   ► Watching Netflix without using ExpressVPN is like playing your favourite game

01:03:12 ◼   ► and not having all of the power-ups available.

01:03:15 ◼   ► Why limit yourself when there's so much more to be had?

01:03:19 ◼   ► I don't know if you know this, right, but some streaming services,

01:03:22 ◼   ► they have different content libraries for every country.

01:03:24 ◼   ► So there are tons of shows available in other countries.

01:03:27 ◼   ► And with a VPN, you can access those other libraries.

01:03:30 ◼   ► It basically tweaks these services to think,

01:03:32 ◼   ► like for them to know where you are right now,

01:03:34 ◼   ► you can tell them you're somewhere else.

01:03:35 ◼   ► And that could give you, for example, Canadian Netflix,

01:03:38 ◼   ► where you can watch all of "The Office,"

01:03:40 ◼   ► Turkish Netflix, where you can watch "Lord of the Rings,"

01:03:42 ◼   ► or you could go back to Canadian Netflix again

01:03:45 ◼   ► for "Back to the Future."

01:03:47 ◼   ► Also in the UK-- - How about this one, Myke?

01:03:48 ◼   ► - Go on, Jason, hit me with it.

01:03:50 ◼   ► - How about this one?

01:03:51 ◼   ► What if I'm going to New Zealand

01:03:53 ◼   ► and I want to keep watching the new season

01:03:55 ◼   ► of Star Trek Picard on Paramount Plus in the US.

01:04:00 ◼   ► The answer is I can do that with ExpressVPN.

01:04:03 ◼   ► - Let me tell you, Jason, it's so easy.

01:04:04 ◼   ► All you need to do is just open the app with one click,

01:04:07 ◼   ► choose the country that you want Netflix

01:04:09 ◼   ► to think you're in and refresh.

01:04:11 ◼   ► Perfect.

01:04:12 ◼   ► There are so many reasons to choose ExpressVPN.

01:04:14 ◼   ► It has blazing fast speeds.

01:04:16 ◼   ► You can stream in HD with zero buffering.

01:04:18 ◼   ► It's compatible with all your devices, your phones,

01:04:20 ◼   ► laptops, media consoles, smart TVs and more. They have servers in 94 different countries

01:04:25 ◼   ► so you can gain access to thousands of new shows or as Jason pointed out, when you're

01:04:29 ◼   ► away the show is in your home. Like Netflix, your home, Paramount, whatever. It works with

01:04:36 ◼   ► so many services you can stop paying full price for streaming services and only getting

01:04:40 ◼   ► access to some of the content. Get your money's worth at ExpressVPN.com/upgrade and don't

01:04:46 ◼   ► Don't forget to use this link, expressvpn, exp, ress, vpn dot com slash upgrade to get

01:04:53 ◼   ► an extra 3 months of expressvpn for free. Our thanks to expressvpn for the support of

01:04:58 ◼   ► this show and relay FM.

01:05:02 ◼   ► Services got a B+ grade at a 3.8 average which is an increase over last year but still not

01:05:10 ◼   ► hitting the highs of the 4 in 2020, where would you put it?

01:05:15 ◼   ► I'll give it a 4. I think that, remember when Apple was bad at services? I think Apple's

01:05:21 ◼   ► actually pretty good at services. I'm an Apple One bundle person. It saved me money, and

01:05:26 ◼   ► yeah, I know they raised their prices and all that, but I feel like I get a lot of value

01:05:30 ◼   ► after the out of the Apple One bundle, especially iCloud and Music and TV+, but the rest of it

01:05:37 ◼   ► and it's yeah, I think they're doing a pretty good job.

01:05:41 ◼   ► I think my questions about services are more

01:05:43 ◼   ► about the company as a whole relying on services

01:05:46 ◼   ► than I am about the actual services

01:05:49 ◼   ► where I think they actually do a pretty good job.

01:05:52 ◼   ► - This is an easy five for me.

01:05:54 ◼   ► So many of my favorite TV shows of last year

01:05:59 ◼   ► came from TV+, right?

01:06:01 ◼   ► So like "Severance", "For All Mankind",

01:06:06 ◼   ► - Loads.

01:06:07 ◼   ► - Severance, my favorite show of last year,

01:06:09 ◼   ► and it's an Apple TV Plus show that's pretty good.

01:06:12 ◼   ► - And I will say, this doesn't count,

01:06:13 ◼   ► but I will add it in, if you're not watching Shrinking.

01:06:16 ◼   ► - Oh, it's so good?

01:06:17 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

01:06:18 ◼   ► - I love it.

01:06:19 ◼   ► - Somebody sent this to me on Mastodon,

01:06:21 ◼   ► and it's true, it's like Ted Lasso good,

01:06:25 ◼   ► like in the way it makes me feel.

01:06:27 ◼   ► It is hilarious.

01:06:29 ◼   ► - It's got similarities, it definitely does.

01:06:31 ◼   ► I wanted to mention also, actually my favorite movie

01:06:34 ◼   ► of last year was "Treasury of Macbeth."

01:06:39 ◼   ► That's a "Washington," that's a TV+ movie.

01:06:41 ◼   ► - That got the upgrade, didn't it?

01:06:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, they got the two for last year.

01:06:46 ◼   ► Pretty good content on that TV+, so yeah.

01:06:50 ◼   ► - By the way, just to save the follow-up,

01:06:52 ◼   ► I know that we know that "Shrinking"

01:06:54 ◼   ► is Ted Lesser made, basically, right?

01:06:57 ◼   ► - Yes, yeah. - Like Brett Goldstein.

01:06:57 ◼   ► - You don't need to tell us Brett Goldstein

01:06:59 ◼   ► and Delorence are the ones behind "Shrinking,"

01:07:01 ◼   ► that's why it's got a little bit of that vibe.

01:07:02 ◼   ► It's not the same. - Harrison Ford is in it,

01:07:04 ◼   ► and Harrison Ford, hilarious, right?

01:07:06 ◼   ► - I laugh out loud.

01:07:08 ◼   ► - Incredible, so good.

01:07:09 ◼   ► - I laugh out loud at every episode of Shrinking.

01:07:11 ◼   ► And you know what?

01:07:12 ◼   ► There are not that many comedies that make me laugh out loud.

01:07:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I really enjoy it.

01:07:18 ◼   ► - So good, but that's not what we're talking

01:07:20 ◼   ► about here today.

01:07:21 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett said, "After years and years of begging,

01:07:23 ◼   ► "users of iCloud Photos have finally had their cries answered

01:07:26 ◼   ► "in the form of family sharing."

01:07:27 ◼   ► - It's true, that's a big win.

01:07:29 ◼   ► That's definitely in the favor of Apple services

01:07:31 ◼   ► that iCloud photos, which is already pretty solid now added

01:07:34 ◼   ► that family sharing feature at long last.

01:07:36 ◼   ► Again, do we reward them for doing a feature

01:07:37 ◼   ► that they should have done six years ago?

01:07:39 ◼   ► Probably, I guess a little bit, but you know, yeah,

01:07:41 ◼   ► it's now that it's here, it's good.

01:07:44 ◼   ► - Casey Liss, he's back again, says,

01:07:46 ◼   ► I don't like that I feel like they're just

01:07:48 ◼   ► nickeling and diming all their customers to death.

01:07:51 ◼   ► It seems like everything new must have a services component

01:07:54 ◼   ► or it never sees the light of day.

01:07:56 ◼   ► - Well, this is the other part of it, right?

01:07:58 ◼   ► Which is, do you judge Apple services

01:08:01 ◼   ► based on the services they offer

01:08:02 ◼   ► or based on what they're doing

01:08:03 ◼   ► to the company's approach to products.

01:08:05 ◼   ► And Casey took the other approach.

01:08:07 ◼   ► One of the beauties of the report card

01:08:08 ◼   ► is it is in the eye of the beholder.

01:08:09 ◼   ► It really is, what do you think of this open-ended question?

01:08:14 ◼   ► I personally didn't heavily consider that in this category

01:08:18 ◼   ► 'cause I don't think that that's,

01:08:20 ◼   ► like, I don't think the fault of the services,

01:08:23 ◼   ► but who else are you gonna blame, I guess?

01:08:26 ◼   ► I do think that there is this real question,

01:08:28 ◼   ► which is Apple, I worry about Apple

01:08:33 ◼   ► trying to generate services revenue

01:08:40 ◼   ► by creating products that are not useful

01:08:44 ◼   ► or that are useful and should have been part of the product

01:08:47 ◼   ► but were withheld and made part of the service.

01:08:49 ◼   ► And they haven't done that so much,

01:08:52 ◼   ► but I'm concerned that as they go down this path,

01:08:55 ◼   ► we're gonna get more of that stuff where they,

01:08:57 ◼   ► You're no longer buying a whole product

01:08:59 ◼   ► when you buy an Apple product.

01:09:00 ◼   ► You're buying an expensive, nice Apple product

01:09:04 ◼   ► that you also need to pay a lot of money

01:09:08 ◼   ► in add-on services for it to do what you want.

01:09:10 ◼   ► And I think that down that path

01:09:12 ◼   ► could potentially be really bad for the company long-term.

01:09:17 ◼   ► - But on the flip side, Federico Vittucci says,

01:09:19 ◼   ► "I'm very happy with Apple's expansion

01:09:20 ◼   ► as a services company in the past few years.

01:09:22 ◼   ► In fact, I hope Apple does even more

01:09:24 ◼   ► and continues to grow in this field."

01:09:26 ◼   ► - Sure, they just need to do it right and not do it bad.

01:09:29 ◼   ► - Because the stuff that they've done this good

01:09:30 ◼   ► is so good, right?

01:09:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, the only one that gave me pause at all

01:09:34 ◼   ► was some of the privacy stuff that they said

01:09:36 ◼   ► you've gotta be an iCloud Plus user to get on the iPhone.

01:09:41 ◼   ► Some of their IP hiding mail privacy,

01:09:46 ◼   ► there's some stuff where you've got to pay them

01:09:50 ◼   ► to get an OS feature.

01:09:52 ◼   ► - It doesn't really seem that that stuff works very well.

01:09:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the stuff that gives me

01:09:57 ◼   ► the heebie-jeebies though, right?

01:09:58 ◼   ► Like that's the stuff where I feel like

01:09:59 ◼   ► we are now sort of saying,

01:10:01 ◼   ► would you like your phone to work better, pay us.

01:10:05 ◼   ► And I don't know, like privacy features are,

01:10:10 ◼   ► like I can get it when they're like,

01:10:11 ◼   ► well yeah, but we have to set up a whole network of services

01:10:13 ◼   ► and it costs us servers and it costs us money.

01:10:15 ◼   ► And like, yes, I totally understand it.

01:10:18 ◼   ► And yet it gives me just like, it's like, wait a second.

01:10:20 ◼   ► I feel like we're, if we haven't crossed the line,

01:10:23 ◼   ► we're like right on the line now

01:10:24 ◼   ► of you selling incomplete products

01:10:26 ◼   ► that must be completed through services.

01:10:28 ◼   ► And that's the danger, not what Federico says,

01:10:31 ◼   ► which is do more services that are great.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Like if Apple can make more services that are great,

01:10:35 ◼   ► like Apple TV+, let's like bring it on.

01:10:39 ◼   ► Let's do it.

01:10:40 ◼   ► If those exist, whatever those will be.

01:10:42 ◼   ► Or fitness, plus. - Need like servers,

01:10:46 ◼   ► but they don't charge for them, right?

01:10:47 ◼   ► Notes, messages, reminders.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Like, you know, just because there is a cost

01:10:53 ◼   ► - It doesn't mean they have to charge you, right?

01:10:55 ◼   ► But sometimes they choose to.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - It's true.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - HomeKit and Home got a D plus,

01:11:01 ◼   ► so 2.7 out of five,

01:11:04 ◼   ► which is exactly level with where it was in 2021.

01:11:07 ◼   ► What would you rate the Home efforts?

01:11:10 ◼   ► - I'm gonna give it a two.

01:11:11 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:11:12 ◼   ► - And these are my two data points

01:11:15 ◼   ► that I'm gonna throw out there.

01:11:16 ◼   ► One is I got a HomeKey lock this year,

01:11:19 ◼   ► and HomeKey is great.

01:11:21 ◼   ► And I'm so happy that Apple built that.

01:11:23 ◼   ► And I'm so happy that products are rolling out

01:11:25 ◼   ► that have Home Key support in it.

01:11:26 ◼   ► 'Cause it means that instead of the weird Bluetooth stuff

01:11:29 ◼   ► that we used to do, I can walk up to my front door

01:11:31 ◼   ► and touch my Apple Watch to the face of the lock

01:11:34 ◼   ► and it unlocks.

01:11:35 ◼   ► And Lauren can do that too.

01:11:36 ◼   ► And Julian can do that with his phone when he's home.

01:11:38 ◼   ► And Jamie can do that with her phone when she's home

01:11:40 ◼   ► 'cause they don't have Apple Watches.

01:11:42 ◼   ► That's so great.

01:11:44 ◼   ► And the old smart lock just wasn't reliable

01:11:47 ◼   ► 'cause it was Bluetooth and I have to see you go

01:11:48 ◼   ► and then you come back.

01:11:49 ◼   ► and then you wait and maybe it unlocks

01:11:53 ◼   ► or maybe you have to put the code in or whatever.

01:11:55 ◼   ► Home key, great little feature, part of HomeKit,

01:11:59 ◼   ► really nice, I like it.

01:12:00 ◼   ► Then my second point is everything else,

01:12:02 ◼   ► but if I had to boil it down, it would be this,

01:12:05 ◼   ► which is Apple, and all of the people on the panel said this,

01:12:09 ◼   ► Apple is essentially in stasis

01:12:12 ◼   ► because they're waiting for Matter, Matter got delayed,

01:12:15 ◼   ► Matter is now out, but it's not really,

01:12:18 ◼   ► Apple's supportive matter isn't out.

01:12:20 ◼   ► Of course, famously, they tried to do

01:12:21 ◼   ► this underlying architecture change late last year.

01:12:24 ◼   ► They had to stop rolling it out

01:12:26 ◼   ► because something bad happened

01:12:27 ◼   ► and they were like breaking people's houses again.

01:12:30 ◼   ► So that's the problem here is I actually have a lot of hope

01:12:34 ◼   ► in the smart home category for Apple

01:12:36 ◼   ► because I do think matter is made to address

01:12:39 ◼   ► a lot of the issues we have with HomeKit.

01:12:41 ◼   ► The problem is it's just not here.

01:12:45 ◼   ► Like it has been so slow,

01:12:47 ◼   ► not only for the products to come out,

01:12:49 ◼   ► but for Apple's support for it to come out.

01:12:51 ◼   ► So maybe 2023 will be the year that Apple gets it together

01:12:56 ◼   ► because matter, it becomes a thing

01:12:58 ◼   ► and it solves a lot of these problems.

01:13:00 ◼   ► But right now this was a whole year

01:13:01 ◼   ► where we waited around for matter and it never showed up.

01:13:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, as Shirley Brisbane said,

01:13:06 ◼   ► "The mass transition continues to be rough

01:13:08 ◼   ► and will hopefully work itself out in 2023."

01:13:11 ◼   ► Yeah, like this, I gave mine a two as well,

01:13:13 ◼   ► 'cause it's like really there was two things that they did.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Like they did a redesign of the home app,

01:13:18 ◼   ► which was like fine, like it's fine.

01:13:22 ◼   ► And the meta rollout, which I don't even know,

01:13:25 ◼   ► it is unclear exactly what went wrong,

01:13:28 ◼   ► but it went wrong enough that they had to redo it.

01:13:31 ◼   ► And I just think in general,

01:13:33 ◼   ► the product offering is uninspiring.

01:13:36 ◼   ► Like the actual hardware, the home hardware

01:13:39 ◼   ► that Apple make and sell is just not really great.

01:13:42 ◼   ► And they make so little of it.

01:13:44 ◼   ► And this is the other point too, right?

01:13:47 ◼   ► Which is what's Apple doing in this category?

01:13:49 ◼   ► We now have a second big HomePod

01:13:53 ◼   ► and we have the existing HomePod or HomePod mini.

01:13:56 ◼   ► So they've got those,

01:13:58 ◼   ► but like they miss the boat in a bunch of categories.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Are they gonna come back or are they not?

01:14:03 ◼   ► Does Matter give them the opportunity to say,

01:14:05 ◼   ► "Oh no, everything works with our stuff now

01:14:06 ◼   ► and it's all great."

01:14:07 ◼   ► Sort of like it's been the mystery.

01:14:10 ◼   ► we have talked about it for several years now.

01:14:12 ◼   ► It is this mystery of Apple's home strategy.

01:14:16 ◼   ► What is it and does it exist?

01:14:17 ◼   ► It seems to exist in some way

01:14:19 ◼   ► because they've got the HomePod

01:14:20 ◼   ► and the Apple TV and HomeKit,

01:14:22 ◼   ► and yet there's very little tangible evidence of it.

01:14:26 ◼   ► And matter was the biggest thing to come along

01:14:29 ◼   ► and it's still not here.

01:14:30 ◼   ► - Hardware reliability got an A at 4.5,

01:14:35 ◼   ► which has maintained this score for the last three years,

01:14:39 ◼   ► probably because of the keyboards, I'm assuming.

01:14:42 ◼   ► What do you think on that?

01:14:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's about it.

01:14:47 ◼   ► Yeah, like hardware reliability, sure.

01:14:52 ◼   ► I'll say five, sure.

01:14:55 ◼   ► This is a place, Apple's doing great here.

01:14:58 ◼   ► I have not personally had any hardware problems.

01:15:02 ◼   ► The hardware problems have been,

01:15:03 ◼   ► or the hardware has been solid.

01:15:05 ◼   ► Everybody's happy with Apple Silicon

01:15:07 ◼   ► and happy that there are no butterfly keyboards anymore.

01:15:10 ◼   ► And I'd go along with that.

01:15:11 ◼   ► I feel like this is Apple's strength right now

01:15:13 ◼   ► is that their hardware is just churning along.

01:15:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was a five too.

01:15:17 ◼   ► It's like, I haven't really had anything to say.

01:15:19 ◼   ► Everything's great.

01:15:20 ◼   ► No issues here, right?

01:15:22 ◼   ► I like what Steven said,

01:15:23 ◼   ► which like users can also get their own parts now

01:15:26 ◼   ► through the self-service repair program.

01:15:28 ◼   ► Like not only is there no issues,

01:15:32 ◼   ► you now have even more ways to fix these things,

01:15:35 ◼   ► even if maybe you wouldn't realistically,

01:15:36 ◼   ► but it's a good showing at least from them

01:15:39 ◼   ► that they're continuing to put more effort into this area.

01:15:43 ◼   ► Software quality got a B- at 3.4.

01:15:48 ◼   ► That is the same score as last year.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Where would you rate Apple software quality out of five?

01:15:53 ◼   ► This one has so much bundled into it.

01:16:02 ◼   ► Like it's a complicated one, I think to score.

01:16:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm gonna say three because my,

01:16:11 ◼   ► the quality of the software I'm running is pretty good

01:16:15 ◼   ► in the ways of like, does it let me do my job?

01:16:18 ◼   ► Does it crash?

01:16:19 ◼   ► Does it get weird?

01:16:20 ◼   ► And the answer is not so much, right?

01:16:22 ◼   ► And like the Mac especially,

01:16:24 ◼   ► I feel like the update was not an update

01:16:26 ◼   ► that introduced a bunch of problems in terms of stability.

01:16:30 ◼   ► However, the reason it's only a three

01:16:33 ◼   ► is there's the rest of it, right?

01:16:34 ◼   ► There's that, especially that system preferences app

01:16:39 ◼   ► on the Mac, which again, just was a mistake.

01:16:43 ◼   ► I think there is this lingering concern about the Mac

01:16:50 ◼   ► and like, is it stagnating and what's going on with SwiftUI

01:16:55 ◼   ► and what's the future of software on the Mac

01:16:58 ◼   ► and is it web apps or is it iOS apps or is it Mac apps

01:17:01 ◼   ► or do we know?

01:17:04 ◼   ► But I think that there are some lingering concerns

01:17:09 ◼   ► and there's some stupid moves that they've done.

01:17:11 ◼   ► And yet day to day, my Mac and my iPad,

01:17:15 ◼   ► my iPhone actually worked pretty well.

01:17:18 ◼   ► - I gave it a three.

01:17:20 ◼   ► Stage Manager was a, could have been so great, right?

01:17:24 ◼   ► Like just in general, I use it and like it on my Mac.

01:17:28 ◼   ► I want to love it on my Mac

01:17:29 ◼   ► and I want to want to use it on my iPad.

01:17:32 ◼   ► I feel like this one of those things where this happens every couple of years during

01:17:37 ◼   ► the keynote, the WWDC keynote they show off a thing and it's like, "Oh my God, they've

01:17:42 ◼   ► done it."

01:17:43 ◼   ► And then you get it and you're like, "Oh no, they didn't."

01:17:47 ◼   ► Once you've actually spent some time with it and I feel like this is it.

01:17:50 ◼   ► However, I am a person who happily used the stage manager on Mac OS all day every day

01:17:54 ◼   ► and I work with it and around it and it works for me.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Davinjohadwar agrees, "It's very nice to see Apple change up its multitasking philosophy

01:18:04 ◼   ► with Stage Manager."

01:18:06 ◼   ► David Sparks says, "It's becoming increasingly clear that Apple is turning up the dial on

01:18:10 ◼   ► their productivity software.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Notes, then reminders, and now mail are increasingly feeling more powerful and useful.

01:18:16 ◼   ► This year we got another entry with Freeform."

01:18:19 ◼   ► And John Gruber says, "I still have the same concerns about the direction of Apple's software

01:18:24 ◼   ► design that I did last year, especially on the Mac, but I think the software reliability

01:18:29 ◼   ► has been excellent.

01:18:30 ◼   ► I think that's a good point, right?

01:18:31 ◼   ► You look at something like,

01:18:33 ◼   ► like Mac OS was great overall, right?

01:18:35 ◼   ► But then you've got system settings, which is rough.

01:18:39 ◼   ► It's every time I open it, I'm like,

01:18:41 ◼   ► I don't know where anything is.

01:18:43 ◼   ► Like, I always have searched,

01:18:46 ◼   ► but there were a bunch of things where I didn't.

01:18:48 ◼   ► You know, like what I had,

01:18:49 ◼   ► something I had to do last week, Jason,

01:18:51 ◼   ► I had a, I was having an issue

01:18:55 ◼   ► with my wired connection in the studio,

01:18:57 ◼   ► but there is like a kind of private,

01:19:00 ◼   ► semi-private public Wi-Fi that I will connect to

01:19:02 ◼   ► when I was trying, I was waiting for something

01:19:04 ◼   ► to be fixed on my ethernet switch.

01:19:06 ◼   ► And so I had to reorder the priority of ethernet and Wi-Fi.

01:19:11 ◼   ► It's like buried under like three menus.

01:19:14 ◼   ► It's like, why is it so hard?

01:19:17 ◼   ► You know, like I know where that used to be.

01:19:19 ◼   ► I would go to network.

01:19:20 ◼   ► But like I've opened it now and like,

01:19:22 ◼   ► it's like, okay, network.

01:19:24 ◼   ► and then it's under a, there is a button

01:19:28 ◼   ► which is three dots and an arrow pointing down, right?

01:19:33 ◼   ► What kind of button is that?

01:19:36 ◼   ► The button is three dots.

01:19:38 ◼   ► - It's a mystery button.

01:19:39 ◼   ► - And then you hit that button

01:19:40 ◼   ► and then you can get the set service order.

01:19:42 ◼   ► But what is a button that is just three dots?

01:19:47 ◼   ► - I guess it means more?

01:19:50 ◼   ► - But why not say more, right?

01:19:52 ◼   ► Like what is a three dot button?

01:19:55 ◼   ► You know, stuff like that.

01:19:57 ◼   ► It's weird.

01:19:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:19:58 ◼   ► I called out the,

01:20:01 ◼   ► the wifi is a good example of that

01:20:05 ◼   ► where there's like these things like

01:20:07 ◼   ► they've got an advanced button.

01:20:09 ◼   ► It's like, why is the,

01:20:14 ◼   ► it's like, we wanna hide this stuff from you.

01:20:16 ◼   ► But some of it we'll put there,

01:20:17 ◼   ► but some of it we won't.

01:20:18 ◼   ► There's so many inconsistencies

01:20:20 ◼   ► in so many different places.

01:20:21 ◼   ► But yeah, in the networking, that three dot button

01:20:25 ◼   ► is bananas, right?

01:20:26 ◼   ► That's the, they put back the locations

01:20:29 ◼   ► and the set service order,

01:20:31 ◼   ► but why does that one not say advanced?

01:20:33 ◼   ► In the wifi, it says advanced down there.

01:20:34 ◼   ► And that one, it just says dot, dot, dot with a dropdown.

01:20:39 ◼   ► And like, well, I mean, look,

01:20:40 ◼   ► I wrote about this for several thousand words this summer

01:20:43 ◼   ► and the short version of it is Apple's a big company.

01:20:47 ◼   ► They've got a bunch of people who they employ

01:20:50 ◼   ► to do things like style guides and software architecture.

01:20:54 ◼   ► And it feels like this is a project

01:20:55 ◼   ► that didn't even get supervision

01:20:57 ◼   ► in terms of like organizational structure and style guides.

01:21:01 ◼   ► Like somebody should be saying,

01:21:03 ◼   ► here's what these buttons,

01:21:04 ◼   ► here's the rules for when you use this

01:21:06 ◼   ► and when you use that.

01:21:06 ◼   ► And that app does not show any evidence that that happened.

01:21:09 ◼   ► And if there was somebody who was trying to do that,

01:21:12 ◼   ► nobody listened to them.

01:21:13 ◼   ► Because this is an app that needs a style guide,

01:21:16 ◼   ► it needs information architecture,

01:21:18 ◼   ► it needs organizational structure.

01:21:20 ◼   ► I could go on and I did all summer,

01:21:22 ◼   ► so I'm gonna leave it there.

01:21:23 ◼   ► It's a mess.

01:21:24 ◼   ► - Developer relations got a C minus,

01:21:27 ◼   ► which is a 2.8 score,

01:21:29 ◼   ► which is the same as last year.

01:21:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:21:33 ◼   ► - And I was thinking at first, I was like,

01:21:36 ◼   ► oh, I thought it would have been lower than last year,

01:21:38 ◼   ► but then I remembered the year prior

01:21:40 ◼   ► was when there was all that stuff with like,

01:21:42 ◼   ► hay, right?

01:21:43 ◼   ► Was getting, and there were a lot of issues

01:21:45 ◼   ► around just like app store approval,

01:21:48 ◼   ► and then they was like there to do a dog and pony show

01:21:50 ◼   ► on that one, change a bunch of rules.

01:21:53 ◼   ► Where would you write developer relations for 2022?

01:21:57 ◼   ► - Two hundred and twenty-two and a three,

01:21:58 ◼   ► I think I'm gonna give it a two.

01:21:59 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:22:00 ◼   ► - I appreciate that Apple has done some things

01:22:02 ◼   ► to improve their relationship with developers,

01:22:05 ◼   ► like the developer center and everything else

01:22:07 ◼   ► that they did for WWDC,

01:22:09 ◼   ► and having developers come to WWDC.

01:22:13 ◼   ► And I think that that is a great event that,

01:22:17 ◼   ► and the sessions they put out are great.

01:22:19 ◼   ► Like there's so many positive things about that.

01:22:22 ◼   ► And I like that we continue,

01:22:24 ◼   ► a lot of people we know are small developers

01:22:26 ◼   ► who fall under their small business thing

01:22:28 ◼   ► and means that Apple is only taking 15%

01:22:30 ◼   ► and not 30% from them.

01:22:32 ◼   ► And that continues to be good.

01:22:33 ◼   ► And yet, I have to say,

01:22:36 ◼   ► everything else is so bad

01:22:39 ◼   ► that it's gotten to the point where like, okay,

01:22:44 ◼   ► and we have friends who worked on this,

01:22:46 ◼   ► But like, let's talk about that developer center,

01:22:49 ◼   ► which is a beautiful building

01:22:50 ◼   ► located across the street from Apple Park.

01:22:52 ◼   ► And we were in it, or sorry, I was in it

01:22:54 ◼   ► for an episode of Upbeat.

01:22:55 ◼   ► - Why? - You were not.

01:22:56 ◼   ► - Why would you do this?

01:22:58 ◼   ► - We, you were there virtually.

01:23:00 ◼   ► I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that.

01:23:01 ◼   ► - I know, I know, I know.

01:23:03 ◼   ► - And I've been inside it,

01:23:05 ◼   ► and a bunch of us were inside it.

01:23:07 ◼   ► And then, just not you. - Some healthy people

01:23:11 ◼   ► are inside.

01:23:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, uh-huh.

01:23:14 ◼   ► - Okay, let me just, let me just,

01:23:17 ◼   ► I'm trying to make a serious point here, so let me make it.

01:23:19 ◼   ► I appreciate all the work that went into it

01:23:22 ◼   ► and all the effort that went into it.

01:23:23 ◼   ► And I don't doubt that those people really wanna have,

01:23:26 ◼   ► people who work in developer relations

01:23:27 ◼   ► really wanna have great, it's their job.

01:23:29 ◼   ► They wanna have great relationships with developers.

01:23:33 ◼   ► And yet with all that other stuff that's going on,

01:23:36 ◼   ► it's very hard for me to not look at that

01:23:38 ◼   ► and ultimately just say, it's a PR ploy.

01:23:43 ◼   ► Like I just, it's gotten to that point now

01:23:46 ◼   ► where when I look at Apple doing nice things for developers,

01:23:49 ◼   ► I can't look at it as being anything.

01:23:55 ◼   ► And it was always a little bit of that,

01:23:57 ◼   ► but like now as anything other than kind of greenwashing,

01:24:00 ◼   ► right, kind of saying, "Oh no, no, no, look, look,

01:24:03 ◼   ► don't regulate us, we actually do care,

01:24:05 ◼   ► we are doing, look at what we do voluntarily

01:24:08 ◼   ► while they're getting squeezed by regulators

01:24:12 ◼   ► and threatened by politicians in the US and elsewhere.

01:24:17 ◼   ► The reason the scores, I think, stayed so low this year

01:24:20 ◼   ► in the Six Colors Survey is this happened not too long

01:24:23 ◼   ► after they rolled out that ad unit on App Store app pages

01:24:28 ◼   ► that was full of gambling ads and other really gross stuff.

01:24:31 ◼   ► And as I said at the time, but I wanna repeat it here,

01:24:34 ◼   ► the issue isn't just the advertising,

01:24:37 ◼   ► the issue is also that that app page is the only place

01:24:40 ◼   ► that developers have are allowed to have a relationship

01:24:44 ◼   ► really with their users in the App Store

01:24:46 ◼   ► because of all of Apple's other rules

01:24:48 ◼   ► where Apple wants you to think of yourself

01:24:50 ◼   ► as an Apple customer,

01:24:51 ◼   ► not the customer of a third party developer.

01:24:53 ◼   ► Third party developers can't communicate with those users

01:24:56 ◼   ► via email or anything like that or offer things.

01:24:58 ◼   ► There's all sorts of things or links to their website

01:25:00 ◼   ► or anything like that because again,

01:25:03 ◼   ► it's all controlled by Apple.

01:25:04 ◼   ► And so it was really like the most unkind cut of all.

01:25:09 ◼   ► It was that, that they were then putting a sleazy ad

01:25:14 ◼   ► on that page.

01:25:15 ◼   ► And then we can look at everything we've detailed

01:25:17 ◼   ► on this podcast in terms of Apple,

01:25:20 ◼   ► every time Apple is doing something to add a tool

01:25:24 ◼   ► to the developer's toolbox,

01:25:26 ◼   ► it's something that developers have wanted

01:25:28 ◼   ► for more than a decade that Apple has steadfastly refused.

01:25:32 ◼   ► And when they do offer it,

01:25:33 ◼   ► it is either because they realize

01:25:35 ◼   ► they're going to be forced to,

01:25:37 ◼   ► or they are forced to, and those are the options.

01:25:41 ◼   ► So it's just a tough situation when I talk to people

01:25:44 ◼   ► who I know who are Apple developers.

01:25:46 ◼   ► I feel like the hope is gone in a lot of ways.

01:25:49 ◼   ► There used to be hope that Apple would kind of get to this

01:25:52 ◼   ► and change its mind and all of that.

01:25:53 ◼   ► I think the only hope that remains now

01:25:55 ◼   ► is the hope that external forces basically demand

01:25:58 ◼   ► that Apple change its ways,

01:25:59 ◼   ► because I think everybody has sort of resigned

01:26:01 ◼   ► over the last year, Apple statements in various cases.

01:26:04 ◼   ► it seems to me Apple has hardened its resolve

01:26:07 ◼   ► that the stuff that it does that bothers developers

01:26:11 ◼   ► is actually right and what they should be doing

01:26:13 ◼   ► and the developers should like it and take it.

01:26:16 ◼   ► And I don't know, waiting for the EU or something

01:26:21 ◼   ► to sweep in and demand that Apple

01:26:23 ◼   ► give developers more rights,

01:26:25 ◼   ► that's like that's what they're left with now.

01:26:27 ◼   ► And it seems like a completely dysfunctional relationship

01:26:31 ◼   ► that if you wanna view it as entirely

01:26:34 ◼   ► a transactional relationship, a financial relationship,

01:26:37 ◼   ► I mean, that's what it feels like at this point.

01:26:39 ◼   ► And it certainly feels like that by the other part of this,

01:26:41 ◼   ► which is Apple's claims that they have to have

01:26:44 ◼   ► the App Store be exclusive because it's a well monitored area

01:26:48 ◼   ► full of, you know, that they're curating and all of that.

01:26:51 ◼   ► 'Cause the truth is that there's all sorts of awful stuff

01:26:54 ◼   ► that stays in there seemingly because of the financial

01:26:57 ◼   ► transactional relationship between Apple

01:27:00 ◼   ► and those developers of sleazy apps,

01:27:03 ◼   ► Apple wants the money.

01:27:04 ◼   ► And so they stay in the store

01:27:05 ◼   ► and then there's also other scam apps.

01:27:07 ◼   ► And it's just like the app store isn't a clean,

01:27:11 ◼   ► well-lighted, carefully curated place.

01:27:13 ◼   ► And so that directly contradicts all of their claims.

01:27:16 ◼   ► So yeah, I think at this point,

01:27:18 ◼   ► Apple no longer receives any benefit of the doubt,

01:27:21 ◼   ► not from me and not from developers

01:27:23 ◼   ► when it comes to this stuff.

01:27:24 ◼   ► I think they've shown their true face

01:27:26 ◼   ► and their true face is, show me the money,

01:27:29 ◼   ► do what I say, and we won't change our ways.

01:27:33 ◼   ► Even if we think that they're,

01:27:35 ◼   ► even if they're wrong, even if you think they're wrong,

01:27:37 ◼   ► we don't, we won't change our ways,

01:27:39 ◼   ► you're gonna have to make us.

01:27:41 ◼   ► And that's a tough partner to have if you're a developer.

01:27:44 ◼   ► - I wanna read a quote from John Siracusa's answer.

01:27:47 ◼   ► "Apple seems to merely tolerate developers,

01:27:49 ◼   ► and developers continue to mostly tolerate Apple,

01:27:52 ◼   ► but too much has been said and done

01:27:54 ◼   ► to damage the relationship.

01:27:56 ◼   ► Apple's reflexive expressions of love for developers now ring hollow.

01:28:01 ◼   ► Developers' complaints continue to fall on deaf ears.

01:28:04 ◼   ► The only thing that seems to move Apple at all is the threat of government regulation.

01:28:10 ◼   ► I always want to give them a one in this category.

01:28:12 ◼   ► That's kind of where I feel.

01:28:14 ◼   ► But for me, I gave them a three because of WWDC.

01:28:18 ◼   ► I think there are people that care and the care that those people have was shown during

01:28:25 ◼   ► the week of WWDC this year in the S of what they did for people that couldn't make it

01:28:31 ◼   ► or didn't want to travel and what they did for the people that did travel. And I think

01:28:36 ◼   ► that that was good.

01:28:37 ◼   ► I think that's the shame of it, right? Is that we know people at Apple who care a lot

01:28:43 ◼   ► about developers. It's undeniably the case. And yet, at a higher level within Apple, you

01:28:50 ◼   ► know, they will still do what they're doing. And that's because at a higher level within

01:28:55 ◼   ► Apple, they've decided these are the policies. And so what you end up with is a bunch of

01:28:58 ◼   ► people at lower levels who are saying, "Look, we know what the policies are, but we love

01:29:04 ◼   ► you and at least we care about you." And it's just a very difficult dynamic. Because I don't

01:29:09 ◼   ► doubt those people. Those people are, that's their job is to do that. I just, I feel now

01:29:14 ◼   ► my attitude toward it has been that those people essentially are there in order to have

01:29:19 ◼   ► the people at the higher levels being able to point at them and say, "See, we care about

01:29:23 ◼   ► developers and it's like, well, they care about developers, but the decisions you're

01:29:27 ◼   ► making, person who's pointing at them, I'm not so sure about you, right? So that's where

01:29:33 ◼   ► we are, unfortunately. And you know, Myke, I know this is stuff, this is basically another

01:29:39 ◼   ► Year in Review and Apple Overview episode that we're doing here. We talk about this

01:29:42 ◼   ► week to week. But like, I think maybe our biggest frustration about this is it didn't

01:29:47 ◼   ► have to be this way, right? That Apple could have come out with a little bit of a different

01:29:54 ◼   ► attitude and then they wouldn't be facing the scrutiny, they wouldn't have the anger,

01:29:59 ◼   ► but like instead they chose the path which was, "No, we are going to fight every battle.

01:30:06 ◼   ► We're never going to relinquish control. We're never going to leave a dollar on the table."

01:30:11 ◼   ► And that they chose this path. And that's really too bad because for 10 years a bunch

01:30:16 ◼   ► of us have been waving our arms saying, "Don't do this, don't do this." And they have chosen,

01:30:21 ◼   ► in many ways, some of the most extreme choices along the way. So it's too bad.

01:30:26 ◼   ► It's not like this is a 2022 problem. None of this is new.

01:30:33 ◼   ► I mean, this started when the App Store started, really, and has gone on. And they've reformed

01:30:38 ◼   ► some of those issues. And again, it's not a little thing to go... That small business

01:30:42 ◼   ► program is not a little thing to let the smaller developers only give Apple 15%. That's not

01:30:51 ◼   ► a small thing. That's had a huge impact on some of those smaller developers. But all

01:30:56 ◼   ► these other issues remain and then when they have come in lawsuits or other things to public

01:31:02 ◼   ► areas, they've decided that their strategy is going to be, "We're right and we're going

01:31:08 ◼   ► to take it all the way and you're going to have to make us and even then we're only going

01:31:11 ◼   ► follow the letter of the law. It's like okay, all right.

01:31:15 ◼   ► - And then finally, social and societal,

01:31:18 ◼   ► oh, I said I gave a three for that one.

01:31:20 ◼   ► I don't remember, developer relations, I gave a three.

01:31:22 ◼   ► Social and societal impact,

01:31:24 ◼   ► 'cause a B- and average of 3.4,

01:31:26 ◼   ► which is a slight increase over last year,

01:31:29 ◼   ► but still down on some of the heady days

01:31:32 ◼   ► of the four points that we've gotten here.

01:31:34 ◼   ► Out of five, how would you rank

01:31:36 ◼   ► Apple's social and societal impact?

01:31:39 ◼   ► I don't even know how to answer this one.

01:31:42 ◼   ► I'm fascinated by this category

01:31:44 ◼   ► because the whole idea here is,

01:31:46 ◼   ► Apple says it wants to make the world a better place,

01:31:50 ◼   ► how's it doing?

01:31:51 ◼   ► It's sort of the way that I did this.

01:31:53 ◼   ► And also remember when I started this in early 2016,

01:31:56 ◼   ► asking about 2015,

01:31:57 ◼   ► or maybe it was late 2015, asking about 2015.

01:32:01 ◼   ► There was stuff in the news about Apple in China

01:32:05 ◼   ► and Apple with environmental concerns and like,

01:32:08 ◼   ► And that stuff, like the issues ebb and flow

01:32:12 ◼   ► and change over time, but there's always this idea

01:32:14 ◼   ► that Apple is out there saying,

01:32:15 ◼   ► "Look, we're making the world a better place."

01:32:18 ◼   ► And if you're gonna, like a company that didn't do that,

01:32:22 ◼   ► I don't know if I would ask about it,

01:32:23 ◼   ► but like they brought it up. (laughs)