Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade.

00:00:11 ◼   ► This is episode number 18 and today's show is brought to you by lynda.com where you can

00:00:16 ◼   ► instantly stream thousands of courses created by industry experts.

00:00:19 ◼   ► For a 10-day free trial, visit lynda.com/upgrade, MailRoute, a secure hosted email service for

00:00:25 ◼   ► for protection from viruses and spam, and Stamps.com,

00:00:29 ◼   ► postage on demand.

00:00:30 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley, and I have the pleasure

00:00:33 ◼   ► of being joined by your host and mine,

00:00:35 ◼   ► the one and only, man of action, Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I just want to keep it going. - In this corner!

00:00:43 ◼   ► Five feet 11, 200 pounds!

00:00:45 ◼   ► - I thought I've used enough interesting ways

00:00:47 ◼   ► to describe you, I might as well just keep going

00:00:49 ◼   ► until it ends, and I've got there.

00:00:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, hi Myke, how's it going?

00:00:53 ◼   ► - I am very well, sir, how are you?

00:00:55 ◼   ► Doing good, doing good, good, starting the week.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I'm in this thing, it's funny in my new life

00:01:00 ◼   ► that I'm in this, I'm realizing that all of my old

00:01:05 ◼   ► sort of cycles of what I would do are gone,

00:01:07 ◼   ► obviously, since September, but I'm starting to recognize

00:01:12 ◼   ► the things that I'm kind of, are my new cycles

00:01:15 ◼   ► that are starting to happen, things that I'm used

00:01:17 ◼   ► to having happen, and these days, on Sunday,

00:01:22 ◼   ► I usually am thinking about what upgrade is gonna be

00:01:25 ◼   ► and making sure that our topic list is up to date,

00:01:27 ◼   ► checking the #AskUpgrade spreadsheet and things like that.

00:01:32 ◼   ► And then Monday morning, the kids are going to school,

00:01:35 ◼   ► everybody's having a little harder time waking up,

00:01:37 ◼   ► and my wife and I will drop my son off at school

00:01:40 ◼   ► and take a little bit of a walk.

00:01:42 ◼   ► And then I come home and then it's sort of like,

00:01:44 ◼   ► then I actually switch the sponsors on six colors,

00:01:48 ◼   ► and then I get ready to do Upgraded.

00:01:50 ◼   ► It's like my Monday, Upgrade,

00:01:51 ◼   ► my Sunday night, Monday morning,

00:01:54 ◼   ► that's just a big part of it is getting ready to do this.

00:01:56 ◼   ► So it's nice.

00:01:57 ◼   ► It's nice to have some mild posts like that.

00:01:59 ◼   ► So I'm not like waking up wondering what day it is.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Which could happen in this kind of,

00:02:06 ◼   ► when I don't leave the house to go anywhere,

00:02:08 ◼   ► that could happen.

00:02:10 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Yes, I went swimming this morning.

00:02:15 ◼   ► So I feel terrible.

00:02:17 ◼   ► - Did you go to the Olympic pool?

00:02:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I went to the Olympic pool.

00:02:19 ◼   ► - Oh, good.

00:02:22 ◼   ► I'm not one of these people,

00:02:24 ◼   ► and I know many people like this,

00:02:26 ◼   ► that feel great after they work out.

00:02:28 ◼   ► You know? - Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:02:30 ◼   ► The endorphin rush thing. - Yeah.

00:02:32 ◼   ► I feel like I have the opposite of that,

00:02:33 ◼   ► but that's maybe something for another day.

00:02:38 ◼   ► - Well, you're doomed then if you don't.

00:02:40 ◼   ► I did, I'm actually thinking,

00:02:41 ◼   ► I did, I started running a couple years ago.

00:02:44 ◼   ► I ran when I was in high school

00:02:48 ◼   ► just to burn off my extra energy.

00:02:51 ◼   ► and just not like in an organized way,

00:02:55 ◼   ► like literally put the tape in the,

00:02:56 ◼   ► 'cause I'm old, in the Walkman and run.

00:02:59 ◼   ► And I started running again a couple of years ago

00:03:04 ◼   ► and then, because my daughter had to run a mile,

00:03:07 ◼   ► and so we did a couch to 5K kind of thing,

00:03:09 ◼   ► and we did that and then we stopped,

00:03:11 ◼   ► because basically if we didn't schedule it,

00:03:13 ◼   ► and I thought about going back to that.

00:03:15 ◼   ► And my experience doing that a couple of years ago

00:03:17 ◼   ► after having not really run for a long time,

00:03:19 ◼   ► except when chased by bears, is that I totally get that afterward I feel like I felt like

00:03:29 ◼   ► I'd accomplished something.

00:03:30 ◼   ► And I wouldn't say I felt good, I would say I felt good tired.

00:03:34 ◼   ► I felt like I was tired afterward, but in a, like, I don't know, like a good kind of

00:03:41 ◼   ► tired as opposed to just I'm exhausted.

00:03:43 ◼   ► It was more like I had accomplished something and that was why I was low on energy afterward.

00:03:49 ◼   ► It's weird. It's fine. I'm not a fan of exercise. I force myself to do it sometimes, not as

00:03:53 ◼   ► often as I should. And yeah. But I should do more. It's the exercise vertical.

00:04:00 ◼   ► It is. Jason Snow. Do you have some follow-up for us today?

00:04:04 ◼   ► I do. Listener and Upgrading Wes Morgan wrote in to ask, "Can we refer to the shore-up release

00:04:12 ◼   ► that's been theorized of OS X 10.11?" Everybody is hoping that there will be, rather than

00:04:18 ◼   ► in a major new release with a lot of new features.

00:04:23 ◼   ► We'll get to that in a moment.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Can we refer to that as snowsemity?

00:04:28 ◼   ► Hashtag ask upright.

00:04:29 ◼   ► No.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Nope.

00:04:33 ◼   ► We can't.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:04:35 ◼   ► - Nice try Wes, but we can't do that.

00:04:38 ◼   ► - Nope.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Anyway, moving on.

00:04:41 ◼   ► Listener Justin.

00:04:42 ◼   ► Okay, so listener Justin appears to be our winner.

00:04:46 ◼   ► We talked about the how many hours has SmartSpeed saved you in Overcast last time.

00:04:51 ◼   ► And many people wrote to us.

00:04:56 ◼   ► Lots and lots of many of lots and lots of many of people.

00:05:00 ◼   ► With their hour totals.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Thank you for sending them over though.

00:05:04 ◼   ► It's been interesting to see how basically everybody listens to more podcasts than me.

00:05:10 ◼   ► I was quite proud of my number, Jason.

00:05:12 ◼   ► What was your number?

00:05:14 ◼   ► I'm gonna go back now.

00:05:15 ◼   ► It might be something like 40 or something like that.

00:05:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, mine's like 20.

00:05:19 ◼   ► - It was so much that I had to double check the wording.

00:05:23 ◼   ► Oh, 28 I'm at.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Because it said, "Smart speed has saved you

00:05:28 ◼   ► "an extra 28 hours beyond speed adjustments alone."

00:05:31 ◼   ► So I wanted to just double check

00:05:33 ◼   ► that it wasn't all speed adjustments.

00:05:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it's just smart speed.

00:05:37 ◼   ► - It's just smart speed.

00:05:38 ◼   ► So it's like, so when,

00:05:41 ◼   ► we haven't said the amount yet, have we?

00:05:45 ◼   ► - No, so, so listener Justin, so the winner,

00:05:47 ◼   ► so far as we can tell is listener Justin,

00:05:50 ◼   ► upgradeian Justin, who said,

00:05:52 ◼   ► "I have saved 222 hours using smart speed on Overcast."

00:05:57 ◼   ► And then he followed that up by trash talking a little bit

00:06:02 ◼   ► and saying, "Hashtag upgradeians aren't hashtag amateurs."

00:06:05 ◼   ► I am to where is, yeah, yeah.

00:06:08 ◼   ► - I can't even understand how.

00:06:12 ◼   ► - I don't, he just, he just listens all the time.

00:06:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, like I don't get it, I just don't get it.

00:06:17 ◼   ► Like what are you, like to save 222 hours

00:06:21 ◼   ► just to smart speed, like how many thousands of hours?

00:06:25 ◼   ► - That's, I can't, maybe he listens to lots of podcasts

00:06:29 ◼   ► with lots of pauses.

00:06:30 ◼   ► - So I spoke to Justin a little bit

00:06:33 ◼   ► because I was taken aback.

00:06:36 ◼   ► And he says he subscribes to over 100 podcasts,

00:06:40 ◼   ► but he listens to probably like 25,

00:06:43 ◼   ► and he's allowed to listen at work all day.

00:06:46 ◼   ► So he does, he listens all day, every day.

00:06:48 ◼   ► - Amazing. - Congratulations.

00:06:51 ◼   ► - And again, a lot of pauses, I think,

00:06:52 ◼   ► are happening to listener Justin.

00:06:54 ◼   ► So I think he wins, but we thank everybody

00:06:57 ◼   ► for sharing their number.

00:06:58 ◼   ► We also helped somebody.

00:07:00 ◼   ► It turns out there was a bug that Marco is hoping is fixed

00:07:03 ◼   ► in the update that he's about to do for Overcast,

00:07:06 ◼   ► that some people don't see their saved hours.

00:07:08 ◼   ► And we have a couple people, I think, who discovered that.

00:07:11 ◼   ► So we did some good in the world,

00:07:13 ◼   ► and stop sending us how many hours you saved

00:07:15 ◼   ► because we appreciated it

00:07:18 ◼   ► and we don't need to see it anymore.

00:07:21 ◼   ► My Twitter stream was full of just screenshots

00:07:23 ◼   ► of overcast with the text saying,

00:07:25 ◼   ► 26 hours, 34 hours, 52 hours.

00:07:28 ◼   ► - I did that thing. - 222.

00:07:30 ◼   ► - Just to see what it was like.

00:07:31 ◼   ► I did that thing with Tweetbot

00:07:32 ◼   ► where you turn it into the media stream.

00:07:35 ◼   ► And I'm just looking for it,

00:07:36 ◼   ► I'm like, it's just pictures of it.

00:07:37 ◼   ► - It's just overcast.

00:07:38 ◼   ► - I only want to hear from you about this now.

00:07:41 ◼   ► you've beaten 222 hours. Yes, you gotta beat listener Justin. If you don't beat

00:07:45 ◼   ► upgrade Ian Justin, then I don't want to see it. Yes, he's a proud upgrade Ian. Moving on to other

00:07:54 ◼   ► feedback, listener Amgid wrote in to say, "Regarding Apple software, has anyone

00:08:01 ◼   ► mentioned the f-word potential impact of Scott Forstall leaving Apple? Could his

00:08:08 ◼   ► leaving have been a potential cause for some of the software instability that

00:08:12 ◼   ► we're that we're currently seeing. As I said last week, one of our really big

00:08:18 ◼   ► challenges with talking about this is that we're on the outside. I don't

00:08:23 ◼   ► have any inside information about the exactly what everybody at Apple is doing

00:08:28 ◼   ► and whose positions were what and why changes were made and I don't have that.

00:08:32 ◼   ► And so there are people you know who've got sources or secret

00:08:38 ◼   ► you know, former Apple developers or whoever,

00:08:40 ◼   ► anonymous Apple developers who could maybe tell more.

00:08:43 ◼   ► From the outside, I would say that if there's anybody

00:08:46 ◼   ► whose departure strikes me as being somebody

00:08:48 ◼   ► who might've had an impact on what Apple is doing

00:08:51 ◼   ► with their software methodology,

00:08:53 ◼   ► it's probably Bertrand Cerlet.

00:08:55 ◼   ► - Why is that?

00:08:57 ◼   ► - Well, he was for a long time,

00:09:00 ◼   ► I mean, he was the OS guy at Apple.

00:09:03 ◼   ► And while Scott Forstall was the high profile

00:09:08 ◼   ► big name, big name on stage kind of guy, whereas Bertrand you never saw unless you went to

00:09:14 ◼   ► the State of the Union session after lunch on keynote day at WWDC. But he was the Senior

00:09:23 ◼   ► Vice President of Software Engineering at Apple from '97 to 2011. Well, I mean, he was

00:09:30 ◼   ► -- Avi Tavenian was in charge and then Bertrand was in charge. After 2003 Bertrand was in

00:09:35 ◼   ► charge until he left Apple. And, you know, again, I don't know all the details, but it

00:09:43 ◼   ► strikes me that he seems to be a guy who had some very specific, he was not a public kind

00:09:49 ◼   ► of person, but he struck me as being somebody who was pretty professional and was running

00:09:56 ◼   ► that ship for a very long time. And his departure, it strikes me, probably had a big impact on

00:10:02 ◼   ► on Apple. But again, I don't know. That would just be, that would be my guess. It's easy

00:10:05 ◼   ► for us to point at Scott Forstall because he was very high profile. He was on stage.

00:10:09 ◼   ► There are lots of stories about Steve Jobs liking him, about him not getting along with

00:10:13 ◼   ► other people. And then he was obviously sent to the garden for some gardening leave by

00:10:19 ◼   ► Tim Cook. But I wonder about Bertrand and whether Bertrand had more of an impact. But

00:10:24 ◼   ► I don't know because I'm not, you know, I don't have input into that. But I think one

00:10:30 ◼   ► of the mistakes we sometimes make when we're talking about Apple is we're looking, like

00:10:34 ◼   ► I said, at the surface and we're looking at people whose names we've heard and there are

00:10:37 ◼   ► stories about them. And sometimes it can be not one particular person or it might be a

00:10:41 ◼   ► person that you haven't even heard of unless you're, you know, at WWDC or you know engineers

00:10:46 ◼   ► at Apple who know this executive. So I'll just throw that out there that maybe Bertrand

00:10:52 ◼   ► Cerlet. He had a lovely French accent. I always enjoyed listening to him talk about the operating

00:10:58 ◼   ► systems and pronounce various operating system code names in French accent.

00:11:03 ◼   ► So my question with this is, who replaced Bertrand then? Did nobody replace him?

00:11:10 ◼   ► Yeah I don't know. Because there was there's a gap there like if he left in

00:11:15 ◼   ► 2011 because they didn't do the like the software group merging until later to

00:11:21 ◼   ► like what 2013, 2014? Because that was after Forstall left right and he left

00:11:27 ◼   ► later than 2011 didn't he? Yeah it looks to me like Bertrand was in charge of

00:11:33 ◼   ► operating system and Forstall was in charge of iOS so Forstall worked for

00:11:39 ◼   ► Bertrand so far as I could tell but again not on the inside don't have I'm

00:11:44 ◼   ► trying to remember trying to rack my brain. So then maybe when he left they

00:11:47 ◼   ► just split them a little bit and then nobody kind of took over from him and

00:11:52 ◼   ► then Forstall left and then they squished it all into what like Federighi's

00:11:57 ◼   ► team? Yeah, I mean, Forstall left in 2012 and Bertrand left in 2011, so it was

00:12:06 ◼   ► right in there. So maybe Forstall, I don't know, maybe those things,

00:12:09 ◼   ► Forstall and Federighi, were both just reporting up rather than reporting to

00:12:13 ◼   ► Bertrand. I'm not sure. It seems to me that Craig Federighi basically has this

00:12:17 ◼   ► role now, the Bertrand role, which is in charge of all software. But anyway, I

00:12:24 ◼   ► I like Bertrand. Some sources tell me that the year after Bertrand left Apple, or the year Bertrand left Apple, he was seen having lunch with John Syracuse at WWDC.

00:12:36 ◼   ► Owe to be a fly on the wall.

00:12:38 ◼   ► Oh really?

00:12:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I think, I don't know, I mean they may just have had a friendly lunch, but I thought that was funny that it's like the guy who's been in charge of OS X development essentially since close to the beginning.

00:12:51 ◼   ► having a chat with John about OS X would have been a fascinating thing.

00:12:58 ◼   ► I don't know if that's actually true, but that's what I heard, is that they had a lunch together.

00:13:03 ◼   ► I like to assume that that was John debriefing Bertrand and thanking him for his

00:13:09 ◼   ► lethal cell work inside of Apple.

00:13:12 ◼   ► I like to imagine that it was Bertrand saying, in his French accent, "John, you were so right!"

00:13:18 ◼   ► right? I would look that was more Russian. Anyway, I don't do accents and I like to imagine that you

00:13:24 ◼   ► were so right about everything, Jon. We listen to you. Except for the file system thing you were

00:13:30 ◼   ► wrong about that. Something like that. Then Jon just throws his fork down and says this

00:13:33 ◼   ► lunch is over and storms. That's my Jon Sierkius of Bertrand-Soleil fan fiction.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Maybe Joe Steele can write a screenplay about that. Do you remember the the famed Eric Schmidt

00:13:45 ◼   ► Steve Jobs lunch meeting thing. Do you remember that when they were sitting

00:13:49 ◼   ► outside of a coffee shop? Oh yeah, yeah, I remember and there were pictures of them

00:13:52 ◼   ► sitting there. You've just created a new one of those. Yeah, Jobs and Schmidt

00:13:55 ◼   ► were probably like talking about how they weren't gonna hire anybody and

00:13:58 ◼   ► they were gonna make everybody's suppress all the wages in Silicon Valley.

00:14:01 ◼   ► Something like that. Yeah, just little things. Yeah, anyway, so that's that's

00:14:08 ◼   ► that's that one. Speaking of Joe Steele, he wrote in asking about automation

00:14:14 ◼   ► scripts and things that have helped us do work. If we could detail some of those,

00:14:19 ◼   ► he linked to a Dr. Drang post on Dr. Drang's site about this sorting script

00:14:26 ◼   ► that he built to sort of manually to automated sort of... he was doing wind

00:14:33 ◼   ► directions I think and he got the directions wrong and then he wanted to

00:14:36 ◼   ► write a script to correct himself rather than just correct it manually, which I

00:14:39 ◼   ► totally understand because the fear there is if you write a script to do it

00:14:43 ◼   ► it, then it will do apply the same rules to what you've done on every line, and it will

00:14:49 ◼   ► either be completely wrong or completely right. Whereas if you do it by hand, you may get

00:14:53 ◼   ► some of them wrong. And that's scary, because then you've got some of your list items are

00:14:58 ◼   ► incorrect. And it's fascinating because you do get the sense sometimes with Dr. Drang,

00:15:03 ◼   ► who is a brilliant guy, that, you know, he does like writing his scripts. And there is

00:15:09 ◼   ► that question of like, have you fallen down the rabbit hole at some point and spent too

00:15:12 ◼   ► much time writing a script. I think there's an XKCD cartoon. There is for everything,

00:15:17 ◼   ► right, about this. The chart of how much time you save and then how much time you spend

00:15:23 ◼   ► building the tool to automate the thing that is supposedly saving you time. I don't know

00:15:28 ◼   ► if you do any automation stuff. I can say, for me, you know, in Macworld I had a lot

00:15:33 ◼   ► of scripts in BBEdit that automated a whole bunch of stuff. Before that I actually had,

00:15:37 ◼   ► When we were using this home built CMS for the TV website

00:15:41 ◼   ► that Greg Noss wrote,

00:15:42 ◼   ► I had some scripts that were basically like

00:15:46 ◼   ► made BB edit into a blog posting tool.

00:15:48 ◼   ► I would run the script and it would post the story,

00:15:51 ◼   ► which was pretty great at that time

00:15:53 ◼   ► when there were no blog posting tools to do that.

00:15:55 ◼   ► These days I've got some automator stuff

00:15:57 ◼   ► for uploading images and to six colors

00:16:00 ◼   ► and resizing them and things.

00:16:02 ◼   ► And I posted about that and uploading podcasts

00:16:05 ◼   ► to the incomparable.

00:16:08 ◼   ► So I've got some,

00:16:09 ◼   ► and then the other one that really saves me a lot of time,

00:16:12 ◼   ► I've got a lot of little scripts in BBEdit

00:16:13 ◼   ► that just do quick search and replaces in a sequence.

00:16:17 ◼   ► And I put some time into that

00:16:20 ◼   ► because I feel like over time it saves me a huge amount

00:16:23 ◼   ► just to, if I'm saving a fraction of a second,

00:16:27 ◼   ► but I use it a thousand times,

00:16:28 ◼   ► then I'm actually saving appreciable amounts of time

00:16:31 ◼   ► and not breaking my concentration.

00:16:33 ◼   ► And most of those are grep patterns.

00:16:37 ◼   ► They're pattern matching regular expressions,

00:16:40 ◼   ► and those take some time to build sometimes too.

00:16:43 ◼   ► But when they work, again,

00:16:44 ◼   ► you can save a whole lot of time.

00:16:45 ◼   ► And like Dr. Drang's example, it's consistent.

00:16:48 ◼   ► You can tell if it worked or not

00:16:50 ◼   ► because either it works or it doesn't

00:16:53 ◼   ► rather than it being something that you update by hand

00:16:55 ◼   ► and it turns out that you made mistakes

00:16:57 ◼   ► on 5% of the things you were trying to update.

00:17:01 ◼   ► I have very little experience with Automator.

00:17:06 ◼   ► I've used it a few times to build actions

00:17:08 ◼   ► to like bulk rename a file or something.

00:17:11 ◼   ► But now anything like that on my Mac, I use Hazel for.

00:17:16 ◼   ► So I only have a few Hazel actions.

00:17:19 ◼   ► I have one that goes through and categorizes

00:17:23 ◼   ► all of the photos that I upload to Dropbox

00:17:26 ◼   ► that I kind of stole and Frankenstein from Federico.

00:17:30 ◼   ► I'll find that and put that in the show notes as well where he explains his photo

00:17:35 ◼   ► automation workflow. And I also have one that just does some stuff. So for

00:17:41 ◼   ► example, all the calls that we have here and all the Skype calls I have and shows that I

00:17:45 ◼   ► have, CoreRecorder automatically records them. And I have Hazel go in and clear

00:17:51 ◼   ► old ones out after a certain amount of time.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I just go in and say, "Oh my god, there are a lot in here," and delete them every now and then.

00:17:59 ◼   ► But I mean Dan Morin on clockwise we asked this question and Dan Morin said most of the automation he uses was written by me

00:18:05 ◼   ► So I do I have been somebody who sort of like pushes the stuff on others and that's how I felt on

00:18:11 ◼   ► Mac world was I was automating stuff for me

00:18:14 ◼   ► But I was also then

00:18:15 ◼   ► Passing that around and saying you could use this too and save time and it's already built

00:18:19 ◼   ► So if they were writing and markdown and BB edit they could use the tools or not

00:18:22 ◼   ► But they were there for them and and that's mostly what it is. I don't I'm not a

00:18:28 ◼   ► You know, Dr. Draring is a shell scripter and he's got these amazing scripting skills that I do not have.

00:18:35 ◼   ► But I do have those moments where I think, like I said,

00:18:37 ◼   ► uploading images to six colors. I did that for a couple of weeks where I was opening every image, resizing it twice,

00:18:44 ◼   ► saving it out twice, and then uploading the file.

00:18:47 ◼   ► And then opening my template of like what the

00:18:51 ◼   ► HTML was to place that in the document and then putting in the file name and all that. And now I have a script that

00:18:58 ◼   ► automatically resizes them, automatically uploads them,

00:19:00 ◼   ► and puts the HTML for those file names on the clipboard,

00:19:03 ◼   ► so I can just paste it into my text editor.

00:19:06 ◼   ► That's better. (laughs)

00:19:08 ◼   ► And although it's not perfect and I need to make some,

00:19:10 ◼   ► I've actually been thinking I need to tweak this,

00:19:13 ◼   ► it's been great to have that,

00:19:15 ◼   ► and that saved me a lot of time.

00:19:17 ◼   ► So that's the kind of stuff that I end up automating.

00:19:20 ◼   ► I do try very hard to recognize that,

00:19:22 ◼   ► I try not to fall into the bottomless pit.

00:19:27 ◼   ► I try to think like how much effort am I gonna be able

00:19:29 ◼   ► to put into this and what am I gonna get out of it?

00:19:32 ◼   ► And I try to be pretty, I'm okay with doing some tasks

00:19:35 ◼   ► if they're not too repetitive,

00:19:37 ◼   ► if the alternative is having to spend hours

00:19:40 ◼   ► trying to automate something 'cause that's no good.

00:19:43 ◼   ► But that six colors image uploader thing, that was great.

00:19:46 ◼   ► That took me a couple hours,

00:19:47 ◼   ► but that has reduced the friction

00:19:50 ◼   ► in posting stories to the site.

00:19:52 ◼   ► And that whether I've netted that time back yet or not,

00:19:56 ◼   ► I feel like it's worth it because now when I'm done with the story, the story is done.

00:20:02 ◼   ► Instead of when I'm done with the story now, I have to go through these 10 steps in order

00:20:05 ◼   ► to get the story live because that's no fun.

00:20:07 ◼   ► So sometimes I wonder if it's better to be in a world like in my mind where I know how

00:20:16 ◼   ► to do these things and then have, you know, then have like the pain of I need to tighten

00:20:21 ◼   ► this up or to be in the world that I'm in where I don't identify the situations that

00:20:27 ◼   ► could probably be scripted because I'm unsure of some of the power that these things have.

00:20:32 ◼   ► And I wonder what's the better place to be in? Like not scripting things and just doing

00:20:37 ◼   ► it as it is or scripting them and then feeling like, "Oh, maybe I need to tighten this up

00:20:42 ◼   ► or something like that." I don't know what the worst trade-off is, you know?

00:20:46 ◼   ► No.

00:20:47 ◼   ► Because I have kind of blissful ignorance.

00:20:50 ◼   ► I hate, this is true, this is true,

00:20:54 ◼   ► I mean, what I hate is I hate repetitive tasks.

00:20:57 ◼   ► There's that moment, whether you know how to do scripting

00:21:00 ◼   ► or regular expressions or anything,

00:21:02 ◼   ► there's that moment where you're looking at a text file

00:21:07 ◼   ► or an Excel file or something like that and thinking,

00:21:10 ◼   ► oh my God, I just need to go through this line by line

00:21:13 ◼   ► and make one change to every single thing in here.

00:21:15 ◼   ► And that's that moment where you say to yourself,

00:21:18 ◼   ► this is a computer,

00:21:19 ◼   ► shouldn't the computer be able to do this for me?

00:21:22 ◼   ► The stupid task that is just gonna take me

00:21:24 ◼   ► half an hour of clicking and occasionally typing,

00:21:28 ◼   ► there's gotta be a better way.

00:21:30 ◼   ► And the next step is I have some ways

00:21:34 ◼   ► and maybe one of them is better,

00:21:35 ◼   ► and if it is, I'm gonna use that.

00:21:37 ◼   ► And that's great when that happens,

00:21:40 ◼   ► but I think that moment happens regardless.

00:21:42 ◼   ► I mean, I think there's a moment

00:21:44 ◼   ► where you're sitting there clicking for 30 minutes

00:21:46 ◼   ► where you've gotta be thinking to yourself,

00:21:48 ◼   ► all I'm doing is sitting here clicking

00:21:49 ◼   ► and I'm using this powerful computer,

00:21:52 ◼   ► surely there is some way, and maybe I don't know it,

00:21:55 ◼   ► but surely there is some way to reduce this friction

00:21:57 ◼   ► or not waste myself with this stupid task that I have.

00:22:02 ◼   ► And that happens to me a lot.

00:22:04 ◼   ► I have a lot of things that work like that,

00:22:08 ◼   ► that I end up pasting text into BBEdit

00:22:11 ◼   ► and running a regular expression or exporting something

00:22:13 ◼   ► and into a tab delimited text file

00:22:16 ◼   ► and bringing it into Excel and sorting it

00:22:18 ◼   ► and then putting it back out and lots of stuff like that.

00:22:20 ◼   ► But that does happen.

00:22:22 ◼   ► So I think it does happen on a certain level to everybody.

00:22:26 ◼   ► And the difficulty is if you don't have any tools to use

00:22:30 ◼   ► to get yourself out of that predicament,

00:22:35 ◼   ► then you just feel even worse

00:22:37 ◼   ► because you know this is stupid.

00:22:39 ◼   ► There's gotta be a better way, but you don't know it.

00:22:41 ◼   ► And so you just have to do the work.

00:22:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is going on way too long now.

00:22:47 ◼   ► - Thanks Joe Steele.

00:22:48 ◼   ► - I know, I feel like, I just had something else

00:22:51 ◼   ► that I wanted, oh yeah, well I think part for me

00:22:53 ◼   ► is like a lot of the repetitive tasks that I have,

00:22:56 ◼   ► I can't automate, like the audio editing stuff.

00:23:00 ◼   ► So going in and doing a lot of that,

00:23:02 ◼   ► some of it can be, but a lot of it,

00:23:04 ◼   ► the majority of it, can't be automated.

00:23:07 ◼   ► There's nothing I can do about it.

00:23:08 ◼   ► So maybe I just have a higher threshold,

00:23:11 ◼   ► so I don't even think about it

00:23:12 ◼   ► because it's not something that I worry about, you know?

00:23:17 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't know.

00:23:18 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:23:20 ◼   ► Well, anyway, that's our,

00:23:21 ◼   ► I guess that's our automation vertical.

00:23:23 ◼   ► I have one more bit of listener follow-up,

00:23:26 ◼   ► which is listener Andy, who said,

00:23:29 ◼   ► "Show17, we mentioned those sort of dictionary passwords

00:23:34 ◼   ► for something like 1Password that are easy to remember

00:23:37 ◼   ► because they're all real words,

00:23:38 ◼   ► but they're unrelated words.

00:23:40 ◼   ► And XKCD obviously had a cartoon about this

00:23:43 ◼   ► 'cause XKCD has a cartoon about everything.

00:23:46 ◼   ► But Andy sent a link in that we'll put in the show notes

00:23:48 ◼   ► to a little tool that uses the XKCD method

00:23:53 ◼   ► to randomly pick four words.

00:23:57 ◼   ► And you can just hit reload until you find something

00:23:59 ◼   ► that pleases you and you can set the number of words

00:24:02 ◼   ► and all of that.

00:24:03 ◼   ► And I just went there and I got

00:24:04 ◼   ► Paddington Carla Guildford Films.

00:24:07 ◼   ► - Oh, there's lots of beautiful British words in there.

00:24:10 ◼   ► - I know, how about that?

00:24:12 ◼   ► - Paddington and Guilford, S. Guilford by the way.

00:24:14 ◼   ► - Underwater passports, living programs.

00:24:18 ◼   ► I think that's pretty good too.

00:24:19 ◼   ► Anyway, so thank you to listener Andy,

00:24:22 ◼   ► and we'll put that link in the show notes.

00:24:23 ◼   ► That's a, if you want a little tool to help you come up

00:24:25 ◼   ► with a memorable, but not really guessable password,

00:24:30 ◼   ► you can give that a try.

00:24:31 ◼   ► - It's perfect.

00:24:32 ◼   ► Thank you, Andy.

00:24:33 ◼   ► - Thank you, Andy.

00:24:34 ◼   ► - You're a true upgrade in.

00:24:35 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:24:36 ◼   ► And a good friend.

00:24:39 ◼   ► - Speaking of friends, Myke.

00:24:41 ◼   ► - Beautiful, beautiful.

00:24:42 ◼   ► Is a segue really a segue if you acknowledge it?

00:24:45 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:24:46 ◼   ► Kickstart your new year and challenge yourself

00:24:48 ◼   ► to learn something new with a free 10-day trial to lynda.com.

00:24:52 ◼   ► They are helping support this week's episode of Upgrade.

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00:25:55 ◼   ► looking to build an app.

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00:26:42 ◼   ► and all of Relay FM.

00:26:44 ◼   ► - Yay.

00:26:45 ◼   ► - So we have a little bit more follow up,

00:26:49 ◼   ► but this is a verticalized follow up.

00:26:51 ◼   ► - Yes, this is follow up from other podcasts,

00:26:53 ◼   ► which I thought I would do because I have opinions

00:26:55 ◼   ► and would like to share them.

00:26:57 ◼   ► So this may be particularly exciting for people

00:26:59 ◼   ► who listen to other podcasts

00:27:01 ◼   ► and maybe have 200 hours of saved things and overcast and maybe not.

00:27:05 ◼   ► I wanted to mention, so we talked about Mark Armand's piece last week which he had just posted

00:27:12 ◼   ► and then since then he made some edits to it and he said he did a post saying that he kind of

00:27:17 ◼   ► regretted posting it and ATP talked about it last week and I again I kind of assume that most people

00:27:26 ◼   ► who listen to this show probably also listen to accidental tech podcasts so I don't want to really

00:27:29 ◼   ► go over everything there. I liked the fact that, I mean, I was listening to it live. I was in the

00:27:36 ◼   ► chat room. I was making dinner and listening to ATP, which is actually a lot of fun. And I don't

00:27:42 ◼   ► know, I feel bad for Marco. I think they, you know, clearly the story is that he dashed it off

00:27:48 ◼   ► and didn't expect it to get noticed. And the, you know, by a massive audience. And the reality

00:27:55 ◼   ► of writing something on the internet and putting it out there is that any piece you write could be

00:27:59 ◼   ► be that piece and you kind of need to be prepared for that. And I think Marco's

00:28:04 ◼   ► take may include the idea that he's not willing to do that much diligence and so

00:28:10 ◼   ► he's just gonna be more reluctant to say things on his blog, which I think is

00:28:13 ◼   ► unfortunate. I think everybody had a good laugh about the fact that

00:28:17 ◼   ► those guys have been very critical of the same issue in the podcast for ages

00:28:22 ◼   ► and nobody noticed because nobody listens to podcasts who writes those

00:28:25 ◼   ► stories. They don't do that. We don't yet have somebody who's the truth squad who's

00:28:30 ◼   ► doing transcripts of every podcast and then quoting those things on websites. And so,

00:28:36 ◼   ► you know, you can bury opinions in podcasts like this one that might be more problematic

00:28:42 ◼   ► if you just wrote a headline and, you know, a few hundred words on the website. And I

00:28:47 ◼   ► think that's just the world we live in. But I like their discussion about software stability.

00:28:53 ◼   ► I come back to what we said last week as well,

00:28:55 ◼   ► which is we don't know all the details

00:28:57 ◼   ► and we don't know what all that's going in there.

00:28:59 ◼   ► There was also a nice piece that I saw linked to from,

00:29:04 ◼   ► well, Daring Fireball linked to it,

00:29:05 ◼   ► and I saw it on Twitter as well,

00:29:07 ◼   ► from Ashley Nelson Hornstein,

00:29:11 ◼   ► who works at Dropbox, but used to work at Apple.

00:29:16 ◼   ► And I thought it was encouraging

00:29:18 ◼   ► 'cause she was basically saying,

00:29:19 ◼   ► I know a ton of smart people who work there and I think they have noticed this problem

00:29:27 ◼   ► and are moving to make the proper adjustments and we just haven't seen the results yet.

00:29:31 ◼   ► And that's encouraging, I think.

00:29:34 ◼   ► Yeah, that's like via the horse's mouth, you know.

00:29:37 ◼   ► I think you can, because obviously Apple can't, well not can't, Apple won't address it, like

00:29:44 ◼   ► publicly, you know, in the media. So at least if we hear from people that either A) work

00:29:51 ◼   ► there or B) have and like or you know have seen this stuff, that's a good thing.

00:29:57 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah, but we, you know, we're on the outside. And this is something I tried to

00:30:02 ◼   ► say last week and that I think it's worth repeating, which is a lot of what happens

00:30:09 ◼   ► the, especially people who write about Apple a lot in that sphere, a lot of what happens

00:30:15 ◼   ► is us waving our arms to say, "Do you guys know that this is a problem? Do you think

00:30:21 ◼   ► that this is a problem? Are you aware that this is happening?" And then we just kind

00:30:25 ◼   ► of have to hope that, you know, maybe something good happens. But I don't feel, as somebody

00:30:32 ◼   ► who is part of this sphere, I don't feel like I can write something and get results at Apple.

00:30:40 ◼   ► I feel like I can write something that somebody at Apple might notice and they might use it

00:30:48 ◼   ► as part of their thought process, but they might just as easily never see it or just

00:30:52 ◼   ► look at it and go, "Nope, he doesn't know what's really going on on the inside here."

00:30:56 ◼   ► And so I feel like all we can do is say, "Hey, we think this is an issue, do you?" and hope

00:31:00 ◼   ► that they do if, you know, we think it's a problem, we hope that they think it's a problem,

00:31:05 ◼   ► and we hope that they are working on it. And that's all we can do. And with Apple, you

00:31:10 ◼   ► literally won't know until the situation gets better or they make a nod toward it at WWDC

00:31:17 ◼   ► or something like that. So that's just, that's where we are. So that's my, I just wanted

00:31:21 ◼   ► to touch back on that and say that I liked the ATP discussion of it. I think, I actually

00:31:25 ◼   ► think there were two interesting discussions to be had about it, one being about the Apple

00:31:31 ◼   ► and software stability in general, and one being about the funny media world we live

00:31:35 ◼   ► in where Marco's piece got picked up, and how you end up writing defensively sometimes

00:31:42 ◼   ► because you're aware of the scrutiny that's placed on you as a writer, and how I think

00:31:47 ◼   ► Marco doesn't like to think that way. I don't want to say he wasn't aware of it, because

00:31:52 ◼   ► I think he's aware of it on one level, but I think he just doesn't want to think that

00:31:55 ◼   ► I think he wants to be able to write the stuff that he wants to write and the difficulty is that some of his stuff

00:32:00 ◼   ► Is a little provocative and some of it sometimes he you know

00:32:03 ◼   ► he will write phrases that are a little bit too far and not more incendiary than maybe he actually intends and

00:32:10 ◼   ► the difficulty is he likes writing those pieces and he's now in a

00:32:14 ◼   ► position of visibility where it's very difficult for him to write those pieces because people will

00:32:20 ◼   ► quote him and use his words to further their

00:32:23 ◼   ► their take on the issue, even if Marco doesn't share

00:32:26 ◼   ► where they're coming from and they'll appropriate his words and you just you know

00:32:31 ◼   ► Yeah, that kind of sucks that you can't do what you like to do before but that's just how it is

00:32:36 ◼   ► that's like, you know, I'm sure George Clooney would like to

00:32:39 ◼   ► Go into his local 7-eleven and buy a Slurpee like he did when he was 14, but he can't he just can't

00:32:47 ◼   ► So that's just that's life. That's life in the big city

00:32:50 ◼   ► And on the internet now, so I thought those were two interesting discussions

00:32:54 ◼   ► I also wanted to mention briefly John, Syracuse, who a couple weeks ago did an ATP

00:32:59 ◼   ► post credits segment

00:33:01 ◼   ► I think post music segment about he how he has like a thousand windows on his screen a

00:33:06 ◼   ► Million windows an infinite number of windows spawning. There's a new one spawning every 30 seconds forever

00:33:12 ◼   ► And he never closes any of them

00:33:13 ◼   ► I exaggerate a little bit, but I wanted to talk about that briefly only because I thought it was

00:33:19 ◼   ► fascinating. And I thought it was a good reminder that none of us uses our computer like anyone

00:33:25 ◼   ► else. We all are special little quirky snowflakes when it comes to how we use our computers. And

00:33:33 ◼   ► also many people on the internet are very judgmental about this. I can't believe you

00:33:36 ◼   ► don't do it the way I do it. And the answer is nobody does it the way you do it because we all

00:33:40 ◼   ► all do it differently. But it struck me like John having all these windows open, that I

00:33:47 ◼   ► am a minimal window open person. I'm not a no windows open person, but I try to keep

00:33:53 ◼   ► it small. I only have web browser windows open when I'm actively using them, and even

00:33:58 ◼   ► then I will often hide Safari or hide some windows because I don't want a thousand windows

00:34:02 ◼   ► open. I very rarely have more than about eight windows open, and I very rarely have more

00:34:07 ◼   ► than about five things in a particular browser tab. And I was curious, Myke, what your window

00:34:14 ◼   ► situation is.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Okay, so, I, for context, I use a 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro, okay? So my main desktop

00:34:25 ◼   ► has one, two, three, four, five, let's say five on average, apps open that all have a

00:34:31 ◼   ► single window, Tweetbot, OmniFocus, Slack, Lingo, and Messages. So they're always there

00:34:37 ◼   ► on home screen one. I have a second home screen, like a desktop sorry, look at me

00:34:42 ◼   ► iOS generation, I have a second desktop which at the moment has Byword and On

00:34:49 ◼   ► the Outliner open for something that I'm working on, a little project. I don't

00:34:53 ◼   ► always have this but I probably will have this for the foreseeable future.

00:34:56 ◼   ► Then everything else I use full screen apps. So I have two Chrome windows in

00:35:02 ◼   ► fullscreen. I have Mailbox and Evernote as well and they they occupy fullscreen.

00:35:08 ◼   ► I probably have about 10 or 15 tabs in window number one on Chrome and then

00:35:17 ◼   ► about the same in window two. Window two is pretty much completely Google Drive

00:35:23 ◼   ► and then a couple of Wikipedia articles for some research for a show outline.

00:35:30 ◼   ► And then in window one is all of the stuff that I browse on a daily basis and

00:35:37 ◼   ► or some things that I want to come back to later. I do like John I keep some tabs

00:35:41 ◼   ► open for things that I want to get to. But like that's that's good to hear I

00:35:46 ◼   ► don't do full screen anything. I don't. I don't use faces. You do have a huge computer though as well.

00:35:53 ◼   ► Like what about on the 11 inch, you must on the 11 inch?

00:35:56 ◼   ► - No.

00:35:56 ◼   ► - What?

00:35:57 ◼   ► - Ah, how do you?

00:35:58 ◼   ► - No, I don't, I don't, and I, you know,

00:36:02 ◼   ► one of the reasons why I've tried that,

00:36:03 ◼   ► sometimes I will do that with logic on the 11 inch

00:36:06 ◼   ► because I need every last little bit of space.

00:36:09 ◼   ► But the problem is then something happens

00:36:12 ◼   ► and it flies out of full screen or it slides your app away

00:36:15 ◼   ► because something else is going on in the computer.

00:36:17 ◼   ► And I have some, I don't know,

00:36:19 ◼   ► I have some problems with what happens

00:36:23 ◼   ► when things are sliding in and out

00:36:25 ◼   ► and you're over, now I'm over in this space

00:36:28 ◼   ► and now I'm back over here and switching between apps.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Having an app be the size of the screen

00:36:35 ◼   ► and yet not in full screen mode works okay for me

00:36:39 ◼   ► a lot of the time.

00:36:40 ◼   ► So I do a lot of that.

00:36:41 ◼   ► So like right now I've got the Skype window open

00:36:43 ◼   ► in the background because we're doing a Skype call

00:36:45 ◼   ► but that's just kind of floating there.

00:36:46 ◼   ► I have a web browser window open,

00:36:49 ◼   ► a single one with three tabs,

00:36:51 ◼   ► and it's our topic list and the two friend ad reads

00:36:55 ◼   ► that are coming up.

00:36:56 ◼   ► I have my reminders window open

00:36:58 ◼   ► because I just put a couple of story ideas into it.

00:37:01 ◼   ► And I've got my IRC window open

00:37:03 ◼   ► for the chat room for the show.

00:37:05 ◼   ► And that's it, that's it.

00:37:06 ◼   ► I don't have any other like,

00:37:08 ◼   ► I don't use open windows as to-do lists most of the time.

00:37:13 ◼   ► And if I was working on a story right now,

00:37:16 ◼   ► it would be open in BVEdit and maybe hidden.

00:37:18 ◼   ► I might've just hidden BVEdit just to get it out of the way

00:37:20 ◼   ► because I'm not working on that right now.

00:37:22 ◼   ► I'm working on the show.

00:37:23 ◼   ► And it's also very rare that I keep web browser windows open

00:37:26 ◼   ► because there's an article I want to read,

00:37:28 ◼   ► which is something John talked about.

00:37:30 ◼   ► Generally, I will just put them in Instapaper.

00:37:33 ◼   ► If I'm not gonna read it right now,

00:37:36 ◼   ► I'll just put it in Instapaper and I'll read it later

00:37:38 ◼   ► and close the window.

00:37:40 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:41 ◼   ► See, everybody's different.

00:37:43 ◼   ► - Everybody is a special interface snowflake.

00:37:47 ◼   ► That's just how it is.

00:37:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, indeed.

00:37:52 ◼   ► I am very surprised that you don't use any full screen apps

00:37:55 ◼   ► on an 11 inch MacBook Air though.

00:37:57 ◼   ► That's interesting. - I've tried.

00:38:00 ◼   ► I've tried.

00:38:01 ◼   ► I've tried.

00:38:02 ◼   ► There's something about the, yeah,

00:38:04 ◼   ► there's just something about the way

00:38:06 ◼   ► that you switch between them

00:38:07 ◼   ► that I end up wanting to go back.

00:38:09 ◼   ► I just so often, like logic,

00:38:12 ◼   ► When I'm editing, I can be in full screen mode,

00:38:14 ◼   ► but then there's that moment when I need to drag

00:38:15 ◼   ► an audio file in from the finder.

00:38:17 ◼   ► And I can't be in full screen mode to do that.

00:38:19 ◼   ► So then I have to switch out of full screen mode

00:38:21 ◼   ► and then position the window and drag it and all of that.

00:38:23 ◼   ► And it just, you know, I use multiple apps a lot for things.

00:38:28 ◼   ► And in full screen mode, you can't, you're just using one.

00:38:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, see I set up separate desktops as well though,

00:38:34 ◼   ► right, to try them. - Oh my God, yeah.

00:38:36 ◼   ► I've tried that too and it just never works for me.

00:38:39 ◼   ► I end up going back to, it's very rare that I have two

00:38:43 ◼   ► like totally different sets of windows that interact

00:38:46 ◼   ► with each other and not with anything else.

00:38:48 ◼   ► I, you know, occasionally I have done that for a project,

00:38:53 ◼   ► but in the end I end up just going back to,

00:38:55 ◼   ► I think it's just because I, you know,

00:38:57 ◼   ► started to use a Mac in an era when you didn't do that,

00:39:00 ◼   ► when you just did your own window management

00:39:01 ◼   ► and you had one space and that was it.

00:39:03 ◼   ► And I think that that is a lot of it too.

00:39:09 ◼   ► Yeah, anyway, so there's some window follow up for somebody else's show.

00:39:12 ◼   ► And then I wanted, I have a couple items for, um, uh, other podcasts to say that

00:39:18 ◼   ► we talked about hello, internet and CGP gray last week, I just wanted to mention,

00:39:22 ◼   ► um, that I just realized that that video that was great, that I watched about how

00:39:27 ◼   ► robots are going to take over everything for humans and nobody really knows what

00:39:30 ◼   ► humans are going to be good for anymore is a CGP, P gray video.

00:39:33 ◼   ► And I think that was the first one of his that I, that I saw.

00:39:36 ◼   ► That's very outside of his usual style.

00:39:39 ◼   ► It's like a 15 minute video with lots of imagery and stock video and stuff like that.

00:39:45 ◼   ► Not so many cartoons, yeah.

00:39:46 ◼   ► Yeah, it's very different but it's incredible.

00:39:48 ◼   ► And of course it will be in the show notes which are at relay.fm/upgrades/18.

00:39:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:55 ◼   ► So I wanted to throw that out there.

00:39:57 ◼   ► Also mention that the latest episode of the Flophouse is a live episode

00:40:02 ◼   ► that they did in front of an audience and it's awesome.

00:40:04 ◼   ► I'm about 20 minutes in and it's amazing.

00:40:08 ◼   ► I thought that it's the live version and they're talking about the new the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie and as they put it the old

00:40:14 ◼   ► Not the old one and then there's an extended riff about what the 1950s Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie might have been

00:40:22 ◼   ► But it's it's pretty funny

00:40:24 ◼   ► And I remember I was at Comic Con last summer and I was actually in line for I was in line for a room

00:40:30 ◼   ► That was currently doing a panel about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie

00:40:35 ◼   ► And so I was there for the what was coming next

00:40:38 ◼   ► but I was in the line with some of the people who hadn't yet gotten in who were hoping to sort of get into the

00:40:43 ◼   ► last 20 minutes of the Ninja Turtles session and

00:40:45 ◼   ► I was fascinated by that because I was too old to ever be into I remember

00:40:50 ◼   ► What Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the comic book was parodying which is all of the ninjas that were in Marvel Comics in the 80s?

00:40:57 ◼   ► Like Frank all Frank Miller's daredevil stuff

00:40:59 ◼   ► It's like like as they say on the on the podcast on the flophouse

00:41:03 ◼   ► Like a hundred ninjas appear and it turns out that a hundred ninjas are much less dangerous than one ninja one ninja will kill you

00:41:09 ◼   ► 100 ninjas you can fight him off. It's fine

00:41:11 ◼   ► Yeah, do one it's one at a time and the that was totally I mean as much as I love some of those comics from the

00:41:20 ◼   ► 80s

00:41:21 ◼   ► Ninjas was a really really overused trope that the tick the comic book version of the tick did a some great jokes

00:41:28 ◼   ► They had an issue called "Night of a Million Kajillion Ninjas" that was a parody of those Daredevil comics.

00:41:34 ◼   ► And "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" was a... that was the joke.

00:41:37 ◼   ► The X-Men were big, so that was the mutant, and the Teen Titans, and the Teenage Mutant, and then the ninjas from the...

00:41:42 ◼   ► That was the joke.

00:41:43 ◼   ► So I'm old enough to remember what the joke was about, but I wasn't a kid who's, you know, formative years watching cartoons

00:41:50 ◼   ► coincided with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

00:41:52 ◼   ► So for me, standing in that line at Comic-Con, I was just baffled.

00:41:55 ◼   ► I'm like, "Really? They're remaking Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

00:42:00 ◼   ► You know, really?" And I just didn't get it, so...

00:42:02 ◼   ► I was that generation.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:42:05 ◼   ► I was the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles as well, they were called.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Was it "hero"?

00:42:11 ◼   ► I feel like, yeah.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Ah, well, it may have been, you know, like in the UK, they may have changed some things that,

00:42:18 ◼   ► you know, like, "Oh, ninjas are bad and they throw, you know, throwing stars and they're

00:42:24 ◼   ► they're dangerous and children will be, you know, poking their eyes out with

00:42:28 ◼   ► ninja stars so we're gonna say hero turtles. In Europe they were known as the

00:42:33 ◼   ► Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. That's weird. Which is what I'm used to because there

00:42:37 ◼   ► was a TV show and the song used to go "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" anyway like that and I was

00:42:44 ◼   ► of that generation but had absolutely zero interest in a Michael Bay produced

00:42:49 ◼   ► anything. Yeah, it seems like a bad idea.

00:42:53 ◼   ► Yeah. Yes, "Local censorship policies," says Wikipedia, "deem the word 'ninja' to have

00:42:58 ◼   ► excessively violent connotations for a children's program."

00:43:02 ◼   ► So they changed it to "heroes." And the lyrics in the song were changed

00:43:09 ◼   ► as well, because ninjas--well, you missed the whole ninja joke then.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Anyway, that's a Flop House episode. I'm excited that they did a live episode.

00:43:17 ◼   ► And I had one more podcast thing, which was when we talked in the upgrade is about podcasts we liked.

00:43:22 ◼   ► I don't think I mentioned the bugle and I wanted to mention the bugle because that is one of my

00:43:25 ◼   ► other very favorite podcasts. And it's a little more irregular now that John Oliver has his own

00:43:30 ◼   ► TV show on HBO, but it's it's John Oliver and Andy Zaltzman, two British comedians, one in New York

00:43:36 ◼   ► and one in London. And they comment seems to be every other week now on news events with lots of

00:43:45 ◼   ► comedy and I enjoy it greatly and that's another really great podcast to listen to. So The Bugle,

00:43:51 ◼   ► check it out. You listen to The Bugle? Have you heard of The Bugle? Heard of it, never listened to

00:43:56 ◼   ► it. Yeah, it's pretty funny. I fear that it's going to fade away now that John Oliver has to

00:44:01 ◼   ► devote all of his new satire to his own TV show that he makes his whole career on instead of this

00:44:08 ◼   ► dumb podcast that he does. But it is a huge amount of fun and has coined many interesting

00:44:16 ◼   ► phrases that I cannot say on this podcast because they would have to be bleeped out.

00:44:21 ◼   ► But actually one of the things I like about the Bugle is they bleep out a couple of words

00:44:26 ◼   ► that John Oliver's HBO show doesn't because it's HBO and they don't need to. And I actually

00:44:30 ◼   ► think they're funny or bleeped. I think it's funnier to bleep out words and then you know

00:44:34 ◼   ► what the words are rather than to just leave them in.

00:44:36 ◼   ► but. Oh yeah I definitely think that like Arrested Development is so much funnier.

00:44:42 ◼   ► You know what they're saying. Yeah or when they like kind of then they kind of

00:44:46 ◼   ► like weirdly obscure the mouth with like somebody's shoulder I love that I just

00:44:50 ◼   ► think that is fantastic. Yeah. So we're out of the follow-up. We we have escaped

00:44:58 ◼   ► the tunnel of follow-up now well I mean that was sort of meta follow-up follow

00:45:01 ◼   ► that was sort of like Jason wants to talk about things that are not this

00:45:04 ◼   ► podcast and that was, but our other podcasts. But we're done with it.

00:45:08 ◼   ► We still have some really interesting topics, but I think considering follow-up is completely

00:45:13 ◼   ► over, we should put a stick in the ground and thank a friend.

00:45:15 ◼   ► Okay, thank a friend, not a stick. Don't thank the stick, thank the friend. The friend I'm

00:45:22 ◼   ► going to thank right now is Stamps.com. We talked about them last week. Some very exciting

00:45:26 ◼   ► news on the Stamps.com front that I'll get to in a minute, but just to tell you about

00:45:31 ◼   ► Stamps.com a little bit. These days you can get pretty much anything you want on demand,

00:45:35 ◼   ► including this podcast. You are listening to this. We're recording this on for me Monday morning.

00:45:41 ◼   ► Who knows when you're listening? A night, in the day, in a car, on a bus, anywhere, you know,

00:45:47 ◼   ► you choose and you listen, you're listening when it's convenient for you to listen.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I say this in contrast to the post office, which has limited hours and a long line,

00:45:58 ◼   ► and it's really annoying to go there

00:46:00 ◼   ► and mail something out and I hate it.

00:46:02 ◼   ► There is nothing I hate, I discovered this about myself,

00:46:04 ◼   ► there's nothing I hate worse than shipping packages.

00:46:06 ◼   ► I hate it.

00:46:07 ◼   ► I just mailing things, I hate it.

00:46:08 ◼   ► I just hate it.

00:46:09 ◼   ► I would have things sit in my office at Macworld for months

00:46:11 ◼   ► because I did not want to ship them back.

00:46:13 ◼   ► This is the beauty of Stamps.com.

00:46:15 ◼   ► It brings pointing and clicking on something on the internet

00:46:19 ◼   ► together with mailing things

00:46:20 ◼   ► and now you can get postage on demand

00:46:22 ◼   ► and you don't have to deal with other human beings.

00:46:24 ◼   ► I love that.

00:46:26 ◼   ► So anything you can do at the post office,

00:46:27 ◼   ► you can do now right from your desk with Stamps.com.

00:46:29 ◼   ► You can buy and print official US postage, sorry Myke,

00:46:32 ◼   ► US postage for any letter or package

00:46:35 ◼   ► using your own computer and printer.

00:46:36 ◼   ► And unlike the post office, Stamps.com never closes.

00:46:39 ◼   ► It's open 24/7, just like your computer can be on

00:46:43 ◼   ► at any time, it's up to you, super convenient.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Now, I have now received my Stamps.com scale,

00:46:50 ◼   ► which will actually connect to my Mac via USB

00:46:53 ◼   ► and it will weigh packages and things.

00:46:55 ◼   ► And I actually used it.

00:46:57 ◼   ► I sent a little box with Apple's old,

00:47:02 ◼   ► is it the, was it the Magic Mouse or the Mighty Mouse?

00:47:06 ◼   ► The one with the little tiny ball on the top?

00:47:08 ◼   ► - I'm pretty sure that's the Mighty Mouse.

00:47:10 ◼   ► - That's the Mighty Mouse with the little tiny ball

00:47:12 ◼   ► on the little tiny track ball.

00:47:14 ◼   ► So I have one of those from an old computer

00:47:17 ◼   ► that was not being used.

00:47:18 ◼   ► And I saw on Twitter that Brianna Wu's husband, Frank,

00:47:22 ◼   ► who is near and dear to my heart, Frank is,

00:47:25 ◼   ► because he's the one in that relationship that likes,

00:47:27 ◼   ► like, you know, the original Star Trek

00:47:30 ◼   ► and doesn't like playing, like, super crazy video games.

00:47:33 ◼   ► And he's a lot like me.

00:47:35 ◼   ► And so I'm in there for him,

00:47:37 ◼   ► but he also uses this crazy mouse.

00:47:39 ◼   ► And I've been there where you love a piece

00:47:41 ◼   ► of outmoded technology and it's hard to find it.

00:47:43 ◼   ► And you're like, what's gonna happen

00:47:44 ◼   ► when my thing that I love is broken?

00:47:47 ◼   ► What am I gonna do?

00:47:48 ◼   ► And so I fell for him because his Mighty Mouse is dying.

00:47:53 ◼   ► So I got a box out of the garage here.

00:47:55 ◼   ► I got some bubble wrap.

00:47:56 ◼   ► I got the mouse, put it all together in the box,

00:47:58 ◼   ► went to stamps.com.

00:48:00 ◼   ► I weighed the box.

00:48:02 ◼   ► I printed out all the information,

00:48:06 ◼   ► the little barcodes and stuff,

00:48:07 ◼   ► and put that all on the box,

00:48:09 ◼   ► stuck it in my mailbox with the flag up

00:48:11 ◼   ► telling my letter carrier to take it away.

00:48:15 ◼   ► And magical, it all worked,

00:48:18 ◼   ► and the box is winning its way to the East Coast now

00:48:22 ◼   ► with that mouse inside for Frank.

00:48:23 ◼   ► And I didn't have to go to the post office,

00:48:25 ◼   ► I didn't have to wait in line.

00:48:27 ◼   ► It was delightful.

00:48:28 ◼   ► I haven't sent anything to you yet, Myke,

00:48:30 ◼   ► but that is gonna happen

00:48:31 ◼   ► because they also ship internationally.

00:48:32 ◼   ► But my first stamps.com moment was great

00:48:36 ◼   ► because I didn't talk to anybody.

00:48:38 ◼   ► I just printed things out and taped things down

00:48:40 ◼   ► and it was really nice.

00:48:42 ◼   ► So to our listeners, use promo code upgrade at stamps.com.

00:48:47 ◼   ► You will get a special offer.

00:48:48 ◼   ► There's a no risk trial

00:48:49 ◼   ► and there is a $110 bonus offer,

00:48:52 ◼   ► which includes a digital scale

00:48:53 ◼   ► and up to $55 in free postage.

00:48:57 ◼   ► So don't wait, go to Stamps.com.

00:48:59 ◼   ► Before you do anything else,

00:49:00 ◼   ► click on the microphone at the top of the homepage

00:49:02 ◼   ► and type in the word upgrade.

00:49:04 ◼   ► Stamps.com, click on the microphone and enter upgrade.

00:49:08 ◼   ► And thank you so much to Stamps.com

00:49:10 ◼   ► for sponsoring Upgrade and supporting our show

00:49:13 ◼   ► and letting me not have to go to the post office

00:49:15 ◼   ► to mail that weird mouse to Frank.

00:49:18 ◼   ► I love that you can just put packages in and put the little flag up and the mail delivery

00:49:25 ◼   ► recipient person picks it up and takes it. We have to go to post boxes.

00:49:29 ◼   ► He just took it away, yeah.

00:49:31 ◼   ► That's magical.

00:49:32 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. Amazing. All right. Other topics. What do you want to talk about? You want to

00:49:41 ◼   ► talk about all this chatter about the Mark Gurman report about the 12-inch MacBook Air?

00:49:45 ◼   ► A lot of people have talked about that. This is where our Monday recording schedule bites

00:49:50 ◼   ► us a little bit because I feel like this has been through the cycle a little bit. But I

00:49:54 ◼   ► did write a piece on Six Colors about it.

00:49:56 ◼   ► Yeah, this is one of the rare things where we got to speak about it on Connected before

00:50:03 ◼   ► we get to speak about it on this show, I think. But I do want to talk to you about it because

00:50:09 ◼   ► obviously we've had more time to think about it and I value your opinion in such things

00:50:14 ◼   ► as I know many people do, and you did write a great piece on the wonderful six colours.

00:50:22 ◼   ► Which colour did I write it in?

00:50:24 ◼   ► Blue.

00:50:25 ◼   ► In my mind, you wrote it in blue.

00:50:27 ◼   ► Okay, got it.

00:50:28 ◼   ► So, having some time to think over this and listen to what other people say and to kind

00:50:33 ◼   ► of to maybe reflect upon your own piece, do you think that... how much truth do you think

00:50:40 ◼   ► there could be in this rumour?

00:50:44 ◼   ► Well Mark Germin, his sources are good.

00:50:47 ◼   ► His track records are pretty good recently for these types of things, isn't it?

00:50:51 ◼   ► I think, and again, you never know, they may have seen something that is going to change,

00:51:00 ◼   ► they may rethink about it, those things happen.

00:51:03 ◼   ► Some of the wrong rumors are actually right at the time, but then they change, and what

00:51:09 ◼   ► comes out at the end is not what was reported and they say, "Haha, they got this wrong."

00:51:14 ◼   ► And sometimes that's not true. Sometimes that was an accurate report and then somebody,

00:51:18 ◼   ► you know, the product changed inside Apple. So I don't want to approach it as being like,

00:51:24 ◼   ► this is totally happening because there's a lot of time and anything can change. I will

00:51:28 ◼   ► say I do give Mark Gurman a lot of credit. He has made—his reports are generally quite

00:51:35 ◼   ► good. And so I think it's worth taking it seriously. And I think it's also worth

00:51:38 ◼   ► just having that—this report contains some information that's so wacky that I

00:51:43 ◼   ► think it's worth having the—just thinking about it and thinking about what

00:51:47 ◼   ► would this be if this was a thing. And some of the reaction to it was very much

00:51:51 ◼   ► like, "Oh, this is crazy. It's impossible. It's not gonna be like this." And I

00:51:54 ◼   ► didn't feel like that. I felt like, like, if we take this seriously, let's try to

00:51:57 ◼   ► walk through the process of why Apple would do these things. And having thought

00:52:02 ◼   ► about it for a little while, I definitely came to the conclusion that this product

00:52:07 ◼   ► as wacky as it is described by Mark Gurman is not unreasonable for Apple

00:52:14 ◼   ► to do. Now we can argue, I also don't want to say I'm defending the product and

00:52:19 ◼   ► think it's a great idea. It may or may not be a successful product, but it seems

00:52:23 ◼   ► to me totally like a product that Apple would make. If that makes sense.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Yeah it does and I guess a lot of the thinking is now like you know if you

00:52:33 ◼   ► look back to what the MacBook Air originally was right it was this

00:52:38 ◼   ► trailblazing device that did really weird things.

00:52:42 ◼   ► Yeah I had it and it was weird it had you could get with a hard drive that was

00:52:49 ◼   ► a little iPod hard drive was slow and awful or you could get with an SSD which

00:52:54 ◼   ► was even smaller than the I think was an 80 gig hard driver you could get a 64

00:52:59 ◼   ► gig SSD if you wanted the 64 gig SSD it was an extra thousand dollars and it had

00:53:07 ◼   ► one USB port on a little door that flipped down that was a USB port and a

00:53:11 ◼   ► headphone jack on a little door it had this processor there was a brand new

00:53:16 ◼   ► processor that Intel had had collaborated with Apple on that later

00:53:20 ◼   ► would be in other devices but Apple sort of drove Intel to build this low power

00:53:25 ◼   ► low heat kind of device and then the thermal stuff on on the original Air was

00:53:30 ◼   ► a disaster to the point where if it got too hot it turned off a processor core

00:53:34 ◼   ► and on the very slow two core processor in that system one when one of the cores

00:53:39 ◼   ► shut down you basically couldn't use the computer anymore like even moving the

00:53:43 ◼   ► mouse was got jerky. It was it was a as un-apple-like an experience as you could

00:53:50 ◼   ► possibly imagine to the point where I think I said this in the Six Colors

00:53:54 ◼   ► article it was a really great computer to use in a meat locker and a really bad

00:54:00 ◼   ► computer to use if you had a west-facing window in the afternoon because the

00:54:06 ◼   ► hotter it got the worse it you know you could eventually you could you had to

00:54:11 ◼   ► stop using it. I mean I would I would often take it to a place where there

00:54:17 ◼   ► wasn't sun just to continue working because I needed to be cooler.

00:54:22 ◼   ► Working outside on a hot day on it was not something I could do. So it was a

00:54:28 ◼   ► compromised computer but and it was weird in all these different ways the

00:54:31 ◼   ► fact that it only had the one USB port, had no optical drive, had that little

00:54:35 ◼   ► hard drive or the crazy SSD thing.

00:54:38 ◼   ► And yet, you know, that's what this Mark Gurman report

00:54:43 ◼   ► is sort of like.

00:54:44 ◼   ► It's like, it's weird, it breaks a lot of rules.

00:54:46 ◼   ► But the MacBook Air over the years has really evolved

00:54:50 ◼   ► into something that's a much more fully functional device.

00:54:52 ◼   ► It's no longer a weird system,

00:54:54 ◼   ► it's kind of a mainstream system.

00:54:55 ◼   ► Lots of people have MacBook Airs, lots of people use it.

00:54:58 ◼   ► It's the 899 entry point onto Apple's laptop lineup.

00:55:03 ◼   ► And it brings into question sort of like

00:55:05 ◼   ► what the point of the MacBook Pro is.

00:55:07 ◼   ► I mean, yeah, it's heavier and it's got retina

00:55:09 ◼   ► and it's more powerful, but they're not as far apart

00:55:13 ◼   ► as you might think and as Apple might want them to be.

00:55:17 ◼   ► And so that was the thought process I went through

00:55:19 ◼   ► is having a weird computer that drops a whole bunch

00:55:23 ◼   ► of things that we take for granted

00:55:24 ◼   ► and put some distance between it and the MacBook Pro

00:55:29 ◼   ► is a very Apple thing to do.

00:55:31 ◼   ► And in fact, it's what Apple did

00:55:33 ◼   ► with the original MacBook Air.

00:55:35 ◼   ► So why would they not potentially do it again?

00:55:39 ◼   ► And rechristen the Air as a thing

00:55:41 ◼   ► that is really about thinness and lightness

00:55:43 ◼   ► and not about being a full featured laptop

00:55:46 ◼   ► that's got all these power features

00:55:47 ◼   ► that everybody who's kind of like us expects in a laptop.

00:55:51 ◼   ► - Is this a MacBook Air?

00:55:54 ◼   ► Like this is what everyone's calling it.

00:55:56 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:55:57 ◼   ► - But is this the MacBook Air?

00:55:58 ◼   ► Is it something else?

00:55:59 ◼   ► If it is a MacBook Air,

00:56:00 ◼   ► do the current MacBook Air has become something else?

00:56:02 ◼   ► - The way it's described is as a MacBook Air,

00:56:05 ◼   ► and I would say it seems like a MacBook Air

00:56:06 ◼   ► because it seems like it is being,

00:56:08 ◼   ► it is a device that is being solved

00:56:09 ◼   ► for as thin and light as possible.

00:56:11 ◼   ► Other features be damned.

00:56:12 ◼   ► The features that are most important in this product

00:56:15 ◼   ► are thin and light, right?

00:56:17 ◼   ► Weight and thinness are the things.

00:56:21 ◼   ► And again, we can argue about whether Apple should be

00:56:24 ◼   ► solving for those things, but let's just say they are

00:56:27 ◼   ► 'cause that's sort of been the whole idea

00:56:29 ◼   ► behind the MacBook Air in general.

00:56:31 ◼   ► My gut feeling is they'll do what they did.

00:56:34 ◼   ► I mean, you can still buy a non-Retina MacBook Pro right now.

00:56:38 ◼   ► That's still in the product list.

00:56:40 ◼   ► So my gut feeling is that this product

00:56:43 ◼   ► ends up being there alongside

00:56:48 ◼   ► of existing MacBook Airs for a while,

00:56:50 ◼   ► whether it's the 11 and the 13 or just the 13.

00:56:52 ◼   ► Keeping the 11 around at 899 or even 799,

00:56:58 ◼   ► Apple does that a lot now. Apple does a lot of older models still hang around and you

00:57:02 ◼   ► can still buy them and they're cheaper. So some people are speculating that this is going

00:57:08 ◼   ► to be the cheap one. This is going to be Apple's cheap, you know, Chromebook competitor and

00:57:12 ◼   ► it's going to be $699. And I look at it and I think, eh, I think it's more likely that

00:57:16 ◼   ► they'll take the existing MacBook Airs, keep them in the product line and have them go

00:57:22 ◼   ► down in price. And that this will be, especially if it's a retina, that this is a higher end

00:57:26 ◼   ► device. This will cost more than the existing MacBook Airs do.

00:57:30 ◼   ► So you think they could bring the cost down to the current and this one will be higher anyway?

00:57:35 ◼   ► That's my... if Apple is consistent with what they've been doing the last couple

00:57:40 ◼   ► of years, when you never know they could change things up, that's my

00:57:45 ◼   ► guess. Apple seems to not be afraid to keep old tech around. Like I said, the

00:57:50 ◼   ► 13-inch non-retina MacBook Pro is still available for sale to this day. That is

00:57:56 ◼   ► pretty wacky, but that's what it is. You can buy it for $10.99 right now.

00:58:02 ◼   ► So why not keep the existing Airs around? They are fully functional, they're not

00:58:08 ◼   ► going to be as thin and light and awesome as this new thing, but they're

00:58:14 ◼   ► very nice functional computers and Apple knows how to make them. They're already

00:58:18 ◼   ► designed, they're making them at volume, they can probably cut some price out of

00:58:23 ◼   ► them and still have a pretty good margin, would you not? That just seems like a better

00:58:30 ◼   ► move for me from Apple, and maybe I'm wrong. But to me, I have a hard time imagining that

00:58:36 ◼   ► Apple would make a brand new design, especially if it has retina, because I have a hard time

00:58:44 ◼   ► with them making any new design that doesn't have retina at this point. I just don't see

00:58:48 ◼   ► why they would bother investing in building a non-retina device. So at that point, the

00:58:53 ◼   ► most likely scenario is that the new thing from Apple costs, you know, $12.99 or something,

00:59:00 ◼   ► $11.99, and that the old things, the old MacBook Airs, stay the same or go down in price a

00:59:05 ◼   ► little bit. And that's consistent with the 5C, it's consistent with the old iPads that

00:59:11 ◼   ► are still being sold. You keep the old thing around, the margins on it are better than

00:59:15 ◼   ► they used to be when you introduced it, and you discount it and you keep that one around.

00:59:19 ◼   ► your new stuff, your hot new stuff, people want to pay for and you should, you know,

00:59:25 ◼   ► and also that your margins on it are going to be less to start. So for me, this feels

00:59:29 ◼   ► like a product that is going to go above the existing heirs and then the existing heirs

00:59:34 ◼   ► will eventually fade away because that seems to be Apple's stock and trade, you know, for

00:59:40 ◼   ► the last few years anyway.

00:59:43 ◼   ► So my next kind of line of inquiry is kind of, maybe the elephant in the room, I don't

00:59:52 ◼   ► know, but the weirdest part of all of it, which is the single USB 3.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Ah yeah.

00:59:59 ◼   ► So one, I mean, what do you think about this?

01:00:02 ◼   ► Is this possible?

01:00:03 ◼   ► Is this livable?

01:00:05 ◼   ► And the next, is this kind of saying that Thunderbolt is going the way of Firewire?

01:00:10 ◼   ► Well, yes.

01:00:12 ◼   ► I think it is and and I think maybe that's okay because

01:00:15 ◼   ► USB 3 is pretty good

01:00:19 ◼   ► And I'm not sure if Thunderbolt is really necessary given that this USB 3 can do a lot of the stuff that Thunderbolt does

01:00:25 ◼   ► And I'm not sure

01:00:27 ◼   ► Thunderbolt is better enough

01:00:29 ◼   ► to to beat USB 3 and the fact that Apple has been a participant in this USB C

01:00:34 ◼   ► Stuff makes you think you know, maybe there's there's more to this

01:00:39 ◼   ► I don't know, this is not to get back to accidental tech podcasts for a minute, but one of the

01:00:44 ◼   ► things those guys were doing that I think is a perfect reflection of people who listen

01:00:48 ◼   ► to podcasts or do podcasts about Apple tech, and that's, you know, me and you and everybody

01:00:53 ◼   ► listening to this, is we are not every user.

01:00:57 ◼   ► We are not necessarily even the target for a product like this.

01:01:00 ◼   ► So when Marco and John and Casey were talking about, like John, I think, was saying about,

01:01:05 ◼   ► well, you gotta put a USB key,

01:01:07 ◼   ► or you gotta attach a hard drive,

01:01:08 ◼   ► and then you've got a,

01:01:09 ◼   ► or an external wired mouse for clicking.

01:01:13 ◼   ► And I just sat there while I was making dinner,

01:01:15 ◼   ► thinking, no, no, no, no.

01:01:18 ◼   ► The answer, if you're Apple, if you think like Apple,

01:01:20 ◼   ► the answer is, well, if somebody really wants a mouse,

01:01:22 ◼   ► get a wireless mouse.

01:01:24 ◼   ► And a USB key, they're like, seriously, USB key?

01:01:28 ◼   ► Who uses that?

01:01:29 ◼   ► And if, yeah, okay,

01:01:30 ◼   ► if you have needs for external devices like that,

01:01:32 ◼   ► either this is not the computer for you,

01:01:34 ◼   ► or you will need some kind of a hub.

01:01:36 ◼   ► And I think this is the kind of product

01:01:38 ◼   ► that makes decisions like that and says,

01:01:40 ◼   ► "Look, most people in the future do not need

01:01:43 ◼   ► "those things attached to their computer.

01:01:46 ◼   ► "It's all wireless, so we're just going to,

01:01:49 ◼   ► "we're gonna make it harder for those people

01:01:51 ◼   ► "who need that level of convenience, but we don't care

01:01:53 ◼   ► "because we want this to be super simple and thin

01:01:56 ◼   ► "and light and wireless and only have one port."

01:01:58 ◼   ► So I think that sounds very Apple.

01:02:00 ◼   ► And we can argue about, again, this is not me saying

01:02:03 ◼   ► I think it's a perfect decision.

01:02:04 ◼   ► It's me saying I can totally see Apple making that decision.

01:02:07 ◼   ► So I do wonder if there's another part to this story

01:02:11 ◼   ► that Mark Gurman didn't report on.

01:02:13 ◼   ► And I sort of touched on it briefly in my story,

01:02:15 ◼   ► which is Apple might come out and say,

01:02:18 ◼   ► "Hey, there's only one port and it's for power.

01:02:21 ◼   ► So if you want to attach any peripheral to it,

01:02:23 ◼   ► you're gonna have to buy an accessory."

01:02:25 ◼   ► You know, so long suckers, jetpack, and they're out, right?

01:02:28 ◼   ► They could do that.

01:02:30 ◼   ► I tried to put jetpack in the story.

01:02:32 ◼   ► I was like, nobody's gonna understand this.

01:02:33 ◼   ► It's like a flop house joke.

01:02:34 ◼   ► Anyway, but I could see Apple saying,

01:02:39 ◼   ► this is revolutionary, nobody's done this before.

01:02:42 ◼   ► But it's not just the computer that's revolutionary,

01:02:45 ◼   ► the power plug is revolutionary

01:02:46 ◼   ► and we've got a breakaway magnetic thing

01:02:49 ◼   ► or the power plug is itself a hub.

01:02:52 ◼   ► And so when you're traveling,

01:02:53 ◼   ► you can plug devices into the little white plastic brick

01:02:58 ◼   ► and it'll connect to the computer and it'll charge.

01:03:00 ◼   ► And isn't that amazing that we've,

01:03:02 ◼   ► Apple's reinvented the power plug now,

01:03:05 ◼   ► or we've also got a $49 thing that you can put on your desk

01:03:09 ◼   ► and that you dock to and it takes in power

01:03:12 ◼   ► and attaches peripherals and then you just plug in

01:03:15 ◼   ► the one cable.

01:03:16 ◼   ► Isn't that amazing?

01:03:17 ◼   ► And it's only 49 or 79 or 99 or whatever it is.

01:03:21 ◼   ► I could totally see Apple telling those stories about,

01:03:23 ◼   ► we've got this amazing travel thing

01:03:26 ◼   ► that's right on the power plug

01:03:27 ◼   ► that lets you do some of this stuff.

01:03:28 ◼   ► And then we've got this amazing port or something

01:03:32 ◼   ► that you can put on your desk if you want,

01:03:34 ◼   ► or that'll be a third party thing.

01:03:35 ◼   ► I totally see that.

01:03:36 ◼   ► And yes, is this gonna be a computer that is not convenient

01:03:40 ◼   ► for somebody who always is plugging in USB devices?

01:03:44 ◼   ► Yeah, okay, yeah, sure.

01:03:46 ◼   ► But they don't care.

01:03:47 ◼   ► I mean, the iMac was really inconvenient

01:03:49 ◼   ► when it didn't have a floppy drive and they didn't care.

01:03:51 ◼   ► This is very Apple is what I'm saying.

01:03:53 ◼   ► And although we can debate whether it's good or not,

01:03:55 ◼   ► I don't think there's a strong argument

01:03:58 ◼   ► that Apple wouldn't do something like this.

01:04:00 ◼   ► This seems very much like the kind of attitude Apple often has when it's pushing into new

01:04:05 ◼   ► areas.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Like, "Look, it doesn't matter that you've got USB keys.

01:04:09 ◼   ► We're not going to let your USB keys be the thing that keeps us from making this product."

01:04:13 ◼   ► Because they may even be able to say internally, "We know that only two-tenths of our laptop

01:04:19 ◼   ► users ever do that."

01:04:21 ◼   ► Or one percent or five percent.

01:04:24 ◼   ► And at that point they say, "Well, the MacBook Pro is for you then.

01:04:27 ◼   ► You're a pro.

01:04:28 ◼   ► You've got lots of USB devices.

01:04:29 ◼   ► you care about that stuff, buy the MacBook Pro. This product isn't for you." Very Apple

01:04:34 ◼   ► in that way too, I think.

01:04:37 ◼   ► What about MagSafe?

01:04:39 ◼   ► I don't know. It depends on how hard—again, maybe there's a story there. Maybe they say,

01:04:44 ◼   ► "Well, actually, this is a little cable and it pops right out if you put any pressure

01:04:49 ◼   ► on it, so don't worry about it. It's this little tiny reversible thing. So we don't

01:04:52 ◼   ► even need the magnet anymore." Or maybe they say, "We've got an amazing magnetic latch

01:04:58 ◼   ► in the port that if there's enough force, it just pops it off. Or like I said, maybe

01:05:04 ◼   ► it's down the cable. Maybe the tripping point is down the cable and there's a magnetic something

01:05:12 ◼   ► or other at the little plastic box or somewhere along the line that pops off if there's force

01:05:18 ◼   ► attached. You know, then again, they could also explain that away. I am with John Syracuse

01:05:23 ◼   ► that point, by the way, which is it would be a shame to just kiss off MagSafe. It is

01:05:28 ◼   ► really nice that they have this thing that means my laptop isn't going to fall on the

01:05:31 ◼   ► floor when somebody trips on the cord, but they may have another story there that we

01:05:37 ◼   ► don't see in this report, because this report is just, you know, the report looks like it's

01:05:42 ◼   ► a complete thing with renders and all that, but chances are pretty good that what Mark

01:05:46 ◼   ► Germin really got was like a bulleted list of things that are in it, and lots of things

01:05:51 ◼   ► that might be in it or next to it that he didn't get aren't in that report. So it's

01:05:56 ◼   ► even though I think his report is probably accurate I don't know I don't necessarily

01:05:59 ◼   ► think it's complete. Right. Okay. I don't know. It's fascinating. I love I love thinking

01:06:07 ◼   ► about this because it makes you know before Apple says anything about it because you have

01:06:11 ◼   ► to play that game of would Apple do this and that's not the same game as do I want it.

01:06:16 ◼   ► I mean, I look at this report and I think,

01:06:19 ◼   ► would I want one of those?

01:06:21 ◼   ► And probably not, but just because I don't want it

01:06:26 ◼   ► doesn't mean Apple's not gonna do it.

01:06:27 ◼   ► And it doesn't mean that there isn't a market for it.

01:06:29 ◼   ► It just means that it's not for me.

01:06:31 ◼   ► And I think a lot of us can make that mistake of thinking,

01:06:33 ◼   ► oh, this doesn't fit my use case.

01:06:36 ◼   ► This isn't a kind of product that I would buy

01:06:38 ◼   ► and writes it off when in fact,

01:06:40 ◼   ► you have to think of people who are not you,

01:06:43 ◼   ► who might actually like having that thinner, lighter,

01:06:47 ◼   ► you know, the renders are kind of amazing.

01:06:50 ◼   ► I mean, it would be a crazy, crazy thin laptop.

01:06:54 ◼   ► We didn't even get to, I didn't even mention that.

01:06:55 ◼   ► The rumor also says it's not gonna have

01:06:57 ◼   ► a clicking track pad.

01:06:58 ◼   ► You're gonna have to tap on it.

01:06:59 ◼   ► And I hate that.

01:07:00 ◼   ► I never use tap to click, but you know, that's me.

01:07:05 ◼   ► For me, don't buy it basically.

01:07:09 ◼   ► All right, fair enough.

01:07:10 ◼   ► Maybe I won't buy it.

01:07:11 ◼   ► Or maybe they'll have a story that is better

01:07:13 ◼   ► than just tap to click that makes it better than just sort

01:07:18 ◼   ► of no feedback tapping in order to get a mouse click.

01:07:21 ◼   ► We'll see if it's real.

01:07:22 ◼   ► Well, there we go.

01:07:28 ◼   ► You OK, Myke?

01:07:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm fine.

01:07:30 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:07:31 ◼   ► I'm just not sure how I feel about it.

01:07:34 ◼   ► It's like the one thing that I keep trying to remember

01:07:39 ◼   ► and to get--

01:07:40 ◼   ► not necessarily to get my head around,

01:07:41 ◼   ► but just to force upon myself is like,

01:07:45 ◼   ► this has been done so many times,

01:07:47 ◼   ► Apple have done this type of thing so many times,

01:07:50 ◼   ► where they're just like, we're removing that thing

01:07:52 ◼   ► that you think that you need, just get used to it.

01:07:57 ◼   ► Like, oh, we're taking away the hard drive,

01:07:59 ◼   ► not the hard drive, we're taking away this optical drive,

01:08:03 ◼   ► before that, we're taking away a floppy drive,

01:08:05 ◼   ► and you kind of just, maybe this is the one,

01:08:08 ◼   ► this is just the next one,

01:08:09 ◼   ► which is like we're taking away everything.

01:08:12 ◼   ► And maybe that's it.

01:08:14 ◼   ► You know, I don't know.

01:08:15 ◼   ► But it's just interesting to me.

01:08:18 ◼   ► And I guess what you would expect maybe soon

01:08:22 ◼   ► that we would see this maybe?

01:08:24 ◼   ► - I don't know.

01:08:27 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:08:28 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:08:29 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:08:30 ◼   ► I'm not clear.

01:08:31 ◼   ► I think, you know, it really depends.

01:08:35 ◼   ► They could at some point,

01:08:38 ◼   ► They could have it ready to go.

01:08:39 ◼   ► They could be making them now.

01:08:41 ◼   ► Although my guess is that they aren't

01:08:43 ◼   ► because we would probably have seen

01:08:44 ◼   ► leaked supply chain photos,

01:08:47 ◼   ► but they could be making them soon

01:08:48 ◼   ► or they could still be working on it

01:08:50 ◼   ► and not ready to release it

01:08:52 ◼   ► and not happy with the supplies

01:08:55 ◼   ► or the cost of the supplies

01:08:56 ◼   ► or the margin on the product.

01:08:57 ◼   ► And it could be six months or nine months.

01:09:00 ◼   ► It's hard to say.

01:09:02 ◼   ► Could be any time or not.

01:09:08 ◼   ► - Should we take a final break this week's episode?

01:09:11 ◼   ► - I think it's a good time.

01:09:12 ◼   ► - Tell me all about mail route, Jason Snow.

01:09:15 ◼   ► - All right, mail route.

01:09:16 ◼   ► I've mentioned it before, Myke.

01:09:18 ◼   ► Mail route is a magical service, magical.

01:09:22 ◼   ► Oh, I'm gonna, this is like an Apple product now.

01:09:24 ◼   ► So it's a magical service.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Imagine, imagine a world, Myke, without spam or viruses

01:09:30 ◼   ► or bounced email messages.

01:09:31 ◼   ► This is a magical world.

01:09:33 ◼   ► No, it's the real world if you use mail route.

01:09:36 ◼   ► I've been using mail route for a few years now.

01:09:38 ◼   ► It is a service that sits between your mail server

01:09:41 ◼   ► and the internet, takes in your mail,

01:09:44 ◼   ► processes it to see if it's spammy or has attached viruses,

01:09:49 ◼   ► or if it's just full of just, you know,

01:09:51 ◼   ► bounced junk from the internet,

01:09:52 ◼   ► and it filters that stuff out,

01:09:53 ◼   ► and then it passes it on to your mail server.

01:09:55 ◼   ► So your mail server doesn't have to bear the load

01:09:57 ◼   ► of receiving all that spam.

01:09:59 ◼   ► It never sees it.

01:10:00 ◼   ► And then you can optionally get a report every so often,

01:10:03 ◼   ► and you decide how often on their easy web interface

01:10:07 ◼   ► that will list the stuff that got knocked out

01:10:10 ◼   ► of your account.

01:10:10 ◼   ► And if there's something there,

01:10:11 ◼   ► if there was a false positive,

01:10:13 ◼   ► you can with one click whitelist the person who sent it

01:10:15 ◼   ► so their mail never gets caught again

01:10:18 ◼   ► and have that mail immediately delivered into your inbox.

01:10:21 ◼   ► And I do that occasionally,

01:10:23 ◼   ► but there are very few false positives at this point.

01:10:25 ◼   ► MailRoute is doing a great job.

01:10:28 ◼   ► The stuff that is in my little MailRoute message

01:10:31 ◼   ► or digest that I get, that's all, it's all spam.

01:10:34 ◼   ► And I just laugh at the subject lines

01:10:36 ◼   ► and then I move on with my day, which is great.

01:10:38 ◼   ► So MailRoute has done this for me, it can do it for you.

01:10:43 ◼   ► You don't have to install any hardware,

01:10:44 ◼   ► you don't have to install any software.

01:10:47 ◼   ► It's all in the cloud, it's MailRoute software

01:10:48 ◼   ► on their servers, it's easy to set up, it is reliable.

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01:12:12 ◼   ► So let's talk about battery life.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Okay.

01:12:17 ◼   ► Now, you wrote a piece on Six Colors looking at iOS devices and...

01:12:23 ◼   ► Yes. Thanks to Steven Hackett.

01:12:24 ◼   ► Yes.

01:12:25 ◼   ► I believe you guys, not to spoil upcoming episode of Connected, but I believe you guys

01:12:32 ◼   ► are working on something that is iPad related.

01:12:38 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:12:39 ◼   ► And Mr. Hackett was looking, he recalled that I've talked a lot about how Apple tends to

01:12:45 ◼   ► solve for specific battery life with their iOS products.

01:12:49 ◼   ► That every year there's a new iPhone and people think, "Oh, maybe this year the iPhone will

01:12:53 ◼   ► have a bigger battery."

01:12:54 ◼   ► And the answer is always, no, this iPhone is smaller.

01:12:57 ◼   ► And the amount of battery life that Apple quotes

01:12:59 ◼   ► is pretty much the same as last year.

01:13:01 ◼   ► And that happens every year.

01:13:03 ◼   ► That Apple obviously is not trying to make their phones

01:13:07 ◼   ► bigger or even the same size and have more battery life.

01:13:11 ◼   ► Instead, they're trying to, they're playing the game of

01:13:13 ◼   ► how small can we make this thing?

01:13:16 ◼   ► And how much can we tweak the software?

01:13:18 ◼   ► And how power saving is the hardware

01:13:20 ◼   ► so that we can get to the point where it's got

01:13:23 ◼   ► that suitable battery life and no more.

01:13:28 ◼   ► And so Steven asked me,

01:13:31 ◼   ► "Hey, did you ever write a story about that?"

01:13:33 ◼   ► And I said, "No, I talk about it all the time

01:13:34 ◼   ► "and I've never written a story about it."

01:13:35 ◼   ► So he did some research into the numbers

01:13:38 ◼   ► that Apple has quoted for iPhones and iPads over the years

01:13:41 ◼   ► and made some charts that I sort of adapted

01:13:46 ◼   ► and wrote a piece around.

01:13:48 ◼   ► So now we've got a piece that if you ever do talk about this

01:13:51 ◼   ► in a future episode of Connected,

01:13:52 ◼   ► you can link to this piece,

01:13:53 ◼   ► 'cause now that piece finally exists.

01:13:56 ◼   ► And the numbers are amazing.

01:13:58 ◼   ► It was all anecdotal.

01:14:00 ◼   ► Obviously, in covering these products over the years,

01:14:02 ◼   ► I would always do the math and say,

01:14:04 ◼   ► "Oh, well, it's pretty much the same as the last time."

01:14:06 ◼   ► It's always pretty much the same as the last time.

01:14:08 ◼   ► People would always shake their fists and be like,

01:14:09 ◼   ► "Ah, I really wish there was more battery life."

01:14:12 ◼   ► And the answer was,

01:14:13 ◼   ► Apple thinks there's enough battery life in the iPhone.

01:14:16 ◼   ► At least they're not willing to compromise

01:14:18 ◼   ► and make the iPhone heavier or thicker

01:14:20 ◼   ► for your battery life.

01:14:21 ◼   ► much as what we just talked about, about the MacBook Air,

01:14:24 ◼   ► I feel like that happens here too,

01:14:26 ◼   ► which is Apple saying, sure,

01:14:28 ◼   ► if you really want mega battery life, go buy a battery pack,

01:14:31 ◼   ► but we're not gonna put the battery pack

01:14:33 ◼   ► in every single iPhone because most people don't want it.

01:14:37 ◼   ► I really think that that's the approach here.

01:14:40 ◼   ► So with Steven's research,

01:14:41 ◼   ► we were able to generate some charts,

01:14:43 ◼   ► which are in this story, which show the,

01:14:46 ◼   ► he did iPhone battery life, the quoted standby time,

01:14:50 ◼   ► and also the quoted sort of average time talk time

01:14:53 ◼   ► on whatever networks were in those phones

01:14:56 ◼   ► when they were released,

01:14:57 ◼   ► the prevalent network supported by the phone at the time.

01:15:00 ◼   ► So that changed over time from 2G to 3G to LTE.

01:15:04 ◼   ► And what you see is for the iPhone,

01:15:07 ◼   ► the quoted talk time has been,

01:15:10 ◼   ► it came up from the original iPhone and the 3G

01:15:14 ◼   ► from in the eight hour range to about 11 hours in the 4S.

01:15:19 ◼   ► regressed with the 5, went back up with the 5C, 5S,

01:15:24 ◼   ► but they're not that different.

01:15:25 ◼   ► And it's only with the iPhone 6 that the talk time

01:15:28 ◼   ► has gotten sort of above 12 hours quoted.

01:15:32 ◼   ► These are not based on,

01:15:33 ◼   ► they're based on Apple's internal tests

01:15:35 ◼   ► for marketing purposes so that they can figure out

01:15:38 ◼   ► what numbers to quote, but it's not,

01:15:40 ◼   ► these are not the independent test numbers.

01:15:42 ◼   ► These are just sort of what Apple says the battery life is.

01:15:45 ◼   ► And then there's the 6 Plus, and the 6 Plus, yeah,

01:15:48 ◼   ► there's a lot of battery life in the 6 Plus.

01:15:49 ◼   ► That is the change to the equation.

01:15:52 ◼   ► And if you look at the standby numbers,

01:15:53 ◼   ► it's the same thing.

01:15:54 ◼   ► They haven't changed a whole lot over time.

01:15:56 ◼   ► There is not a strict upward progression over time,

01:15:59 ◼   ► 'cause you can see that Apple is taking away

01:16:01 ◼   ► some battery life when it needs to

01:16:03 ◼   ► in order to get more powerful or thinner or lighter.

01:16:06 ◼   ► And again, it's only really with the 6 Plus

01:16:09 ◼   ► that you see something that is way outside the norm.

01:16:12 ◼   ► So clearly on the normal,

01:16:14 ◼   ► whatever they consider the normal sized iPhone,

01:16:17 ◼   ► Apple is solving for that battery life.

01:16:18 ◼   ► And on the iPad, it's even more hilarious.

01:16:20 ◼   ► On the iPad, Wi-Fi iPads are always 10 hours of battery life.

01:16:25 ◼   ► That's what they're shooting for,

01:16:27 ◼   ► the quoted number of 10 hours of battery life.

01:16:29 ◼   ► And the only exceptions in the entire life of the iPad

01:16:32 ◼   ► are the iPad 2, iPad 3, and iPad 4 cellular models.

01:16:37 ◼   ► They were quoted at nine hours.

01:16:41 ◼   ► But the current cellular models are all quoted at 10 again.

01:16:46 ◼   ► So, and I think maybe the first mini was also a nine hour

01:16:49 ◼   ► for the cellular version.

01:16:50 ◼   ► So basically, the point of these dumb charts is,

01:16:54 ◼   ► Apple's trying to hit a battery life,

01:16:57 ◼   ► not grow battery life over time.

01:16:59 ◼   ► And the only exception seems to be the six plus.

01:17:01 ◼   ► - Okay, so I disagree with that hypothesis.

01:17:08 ◼   ► - Interesting.

01:17:10 ◼   ► - For the-- - Six plus user.

01:17:12 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, but for the phones.

01:17:13 ◼   ► Okay, so you look at the iPad, right?

01:17:15 ◼   ► and clearly Apple are making decisions in the negative and positive to get it to 10.

01:17:22 ◼   ► There is like a number on the wall in the iPad hardware development team that just says 10.

01:17:28 ◼   ► This is a paper on the wall that says 10, which is clear right? Because you look at that

01:17:32 ◼   ► and it's over the these six iterations it's sticking at 10. Those standby numbers for the

01:17:39 ◼   ► phone are all over the place. So Apple have not decided on an amount. But if

01:17:46 ◼   ► they thought the original iPhone was the right amount, which is kind of where we

01:17:50 ◼   ► are again with the 6, then like why did it increase for the 3G, the 3GS, and the 4?

01:17:55 ◼   ► And then it decreased significantly for the 4S, and it's only kind of building up from there.

01:18:01 ◼   ► With standby, I wonder how much of software is embedded into the standby.

01:18:06 ◼   ► And also we've got, not only do we have software and hardware changes, but

01:18:09 ◼   ► we've got these wireless changes that happen.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Like if you look at the battery life with talk times,

01:18:15 ◼   ► the reason the 4S goes down to the 5, it's gotta be LTE.

01:18:21 ◼   ► It's gotta be LTE.

01:18:23 ◼   ► Like LTE, they took a hit

01:18:24 ◼   ► and the battery life regressed 'cause of LTE.

01:18:27 ◼   ► And maybe, you know, 3G,

01:18:30 ◼   ► when the iPhone went to the iPhone 3G,

01:18:32 ◼   ► it regressed in battery life on cell.

01:18:34 ◼   ► And that was probably because of the extra power required

01:18:38 ◼   ► for the 3G and then they got better over time.

01:18:41 ◼   ► - But like I said, if we look at the sell chart though,

01:18:45 ◼   ► they were happy to let it increase, right?

01:18:48 ◼   ► And then LTE come by and struck it down.

01:18:50 ◼   ► But if you look at the overall trend,

01:18:54 ◼   ► if you were to draw a trend line from iPhone to iPhone 6,

01:18:58 ◼   ► that Apple are increasing it.

01:19:00 ◼   ► And if they're increasing it,

01:19:01 ◼   ► it means they don't think that they found

01:19:03 ◼   ► the number that they found with the original iPad.

01:19:07 ◼   ► original iPad the number is the same as it is today we are not at that stage

01:19:11 ◼   ► with the iPhone admittedly it's not a huge increase but it's big enough it's

01:19:15 ◼   ► it's basically double so my argument would be is they have not found that

01:19:21 ◼   ► point yet but they are making decisions in the way that they make the phone

01:19:26 ◼   ► which don't let it go crazy like it does for the 6 plus the 6 plus is battery is

01:19:30 ◼   ► that the battery life is only that great because they have added space they have

01:19:35 ◼   ► extra space because it's so large they just chuck it in there. And the 6 has extra space too,

01:19:39 ◼   ► which is I think why the 6 has the best battery life in terms of cellular

01:19:44 ◼   ► talk. I guess what I would say is there is a positive trend over time but it

01:19:48 ◼   ► seems to be related to adopting a new technology and then improving within

01:19:52 ◼   ► that technology. So the 3G era you see improvement 3G, 3GS, 4, 4S and then you

01:20:00 ◼   ► take the step back with LTE and then you see forward steps there although the

01:20:04 ◼   ► the jump from the 5C and 5S era to the 6 is a much bigger jump from the 5 to the 5C and the 5S,

01:20:11 ◼   ► and I think that's because of size as a part of it. I guess I don't dispute that Apple is

01:20:18 ◼   ► open to adding more battery life. I guess I would say clearly Apple is not concerned about—if you

01:20:27 ◼   ► look at that base number for the 5, let's say, Apple felt like that was good enough, and that

01:20:32 ◼   ► that they made and the five is so much thinner

01:20:36 ◼   ► than the 4S and they were okay with that

01:20:39 ◼   ► because they thought that battery life was okay.

01:20:42 ◼   ► And I mean, and these are all messy numbers

01:20:44 ◼   ► and but I just, in my mind, I look at this and I say,

01:20:48 ◼   ► this shows that Apple kinda is not,

01:20:52 ◼   ► they don't care if they regress with battery a little bit

01:20:55 ◼   ► from time to time, they just don't care.

01:20:56 ◼   ► Whereas thinness, they really seem to care if they regress.

01:21:00 ◼   ► - Oh, I agree with that.

01:21:01 ◼   ► thinness and lightness, they have to be marching forward.

01:21:03 ◼   ► Battery, they're like, they're okay.

01:21:06 ◼   ► 'Cause again, you could have gone from the 4S to the 5

01:21:09 ◼   ► and kept the thickness of the 4S,

01:21:11 ◼   ► and that battery life would have been better.

01:21:13 ◼   ► And they didn't do it.

01:21:14 ◼   ► They put it back in,

01:21:16 ◼   ► 'cause I think they're just shooting for,

01:21:19 ◼   ► and underlying this, I would say,

01:21:21 ◼   ► is they're shooting for all day.

01:21:22 ◼   ► They're shooting for some platonic ideal of all day,

01:21:24 ◼   ► which is you unplug your phone in the morning

01:21:26 ◼   ► when you go to work, you're at work all day,

01:21:29 ◼   ► and then you go home in the evening

01:21:31 ◼   ► and it should last that much time.

01:21:34 ◼   ► And that they have models of usage that are based on that.

01:21:38 ◼   ► It's like, you can do that all day,

01:21:40 ◼   ► but if you're gonna be on your device

01:21:42 ◼   ► every minute of that day using data, it's gonna die,

01:21:45 ◼   ► but then you're an outlier and they're not solving for you,

01:21:48 ◼   ► they're solving for somebody

01:21:50 ◼   ► who's got lighter use than that.

01:21:51 ◼   ► So I would expect these numbers to improve,

01:21:55 ◼   ► not because battery technology is improving,

01:21:58 ◼   ► but because Apple wants to increase,

01:22:01 ◼   ► if Apple targeted this as a feature

01:22:02 ◼   ► it wanted to improve over time, it would have,

01:22:04 ◼   ► and it hasn't really, until the six.

01:22:06 ◼   ► And I think the six is where the story changes

01:22:08 ◼   ► because of the size.

01:22:10 ◼   ► - So I definitely agree with you that they're,

01:22:14 ◼   ► that they're not averse to cutting it for certain reasons.

01:22:17 ◼   ► It's just my kind of, my, the way that I look at this is,

01:22:21 ◼   ► they found something with the iPad

01:22:23 ◼   ► that they've not yet found with the iPhone,

01:22:24 ◼   ► which is the number, right?

01:22:26 ◼   ► The iPad, I don't know why they made the decision that they made, but they decided to go with

01:22:32 ◼   ► 10 and they stuck on it.

01:22:33 ◼   ► They're just like, "This is just where we're going to go."

01:22:36 ◼   ► It's just interesting to me that that is how that has been.

01:22:40 ◼   ► Because even the Mini, right?

01:22:41 ◼   ► The Mini's 10, isn't it?

01:22:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:44 ◼   ► It's all 10.

01:22:46 ◼   ► Because then you'd think, the Mini and the Air, in theory, they were pretty much the

01:22:52 ◼   ► same internals, the Air should have had bigger battery life in theory if you

01:22:56 ◼   ► look at the 6 and the 6 plus right because that is like a in they are very

01:23:01 ◼   ► similar in that idea pretty much the same internals bigger screen you think

01:23:05 ◼   ► bigger screen would take more battery clearly it doesn't but Apple potentially

01:23:09 ◼   ► made a choice and like 10 hours is what it gets and we're gonna put in it

01:23:12 ◼   ► there's there's a really this is an example from another company but I think

01:23:16 ◼   ► this is really interesting in illustrating how companies make these

01:23:19 ◼   ► decisions. This is Nintendo. So on the Wii U, the Wii U gamepad gets about

01:23:27 ◼   ► four to six hours of battery life, something like that. But Nintendo sell a

01:23:32 ◼   ► bigger battery that you can buy. You can buy it from from Nintendo's website and

01:23:38 ◼   ► it says it's very easy to change. It's just one screwdriver and you

01:23:44 ◼   ► can put it in and you get like eight to ten hours of battery life. Now the

01:23:48 ◼   ► reason I bring this up is because what that obviously does is it adds weight to

01:23:52 ◼   ► the overall product and potentially makes it a less comfortable thing to

01:23:55 ◼   ► hold in your hand. So it's just like this is from a company that is not averse

01:24:00 ◼   ► to letting you put things and change things right? But they made a

01:24:06 ◼   ► decision because the battery pack, the battery slot for the Wii U, the

01:24:14 ◼   ► battery in it doesn't fit inside the entire pack it's smaller so you the

01:24:19 ◼   ► place that you put this battery pack in it's the larger battery pack it fits in

01:24:23 ◼   ► the same place so like they have additional space for it sure but they

01:24:27 ◼   ► decide that they don't want to use it that way I just think it's just an

01:24:30 ◼   ► interesting like parallel you know they they make decisions based on that I yeah

01:24:36 ◼   ► I think I think you make I mean you're right the the battery life on the Apple

01:24:42 ◼   ► stuff is it fluctuates. I think the larger point is that Apple feels like

01:24:49 ◼   ► it's enough. Apple clearly is not being driven by people complaining that their

01:24:54 ◼   ► phone doesn't last all day to make the phone have more capacity unless we look

01:24:59 ◼   ► at the 6 which is kind of a byproduct of the size and see that there is more

01:25:04 ◼   ► battery life on the 6 than there was. It just it's funny like if if if it was

01:25:10 ◼   ► clear that everybody hated the iPhone because it didn't last long enough. I

01:25:15 ◼   ► think you would see in the numbers a bigger drive to get to, you know, 12, 15,

01:25:21 ◼   ► 18 hours. And that it's just kind of not there. It's just this slow progression

01:25:27 ◼   ► where the the chips are getting more efficient and then there's a new cell

01:25:31 ◼   ► technology and it drops again. It explains to me why my daughter's iPhone

01:25:35 ◼   ► is constantly running out of battery because she's a heavy user and it

01:25:41 ◼   ► doesn't have very good battery life and it's and it's two years old but but yeah

01:25:46 ◼   ► it's it's just it's interesting I'm glad that Steven did the research here and and

01:25:50 ◼   ► it was a fun story to write but you know Apple's not gonna let you swap in a new

01:25:55 ◼   ► battery like Nintendo and Apple has shot I mean to Nintendo has decided that for

01:25:59 ◼   ► most people that base battery is probably fine and if you're somebody

01:26:03 ◼   ► who's an outlier, you'll buy the extra battery and you can put it in and that's fine, but

01:26:07 ◼   ► they're not going to spend the money on the extra battery if most people don't need it.

01:26:11 ◼   ► My son is kind of paranoid about the battery. It's good to know that that's the battery

01:26:15 ◼   ► life because he's paranoid about the battery. He doesn't even want to run the Wii controller

01:26:19 ◼   ► without being plugged in. Like, no, no, it's fine. It's got a battery. It'll last for a

01:26:24 ◼   ► while. I should let him know that because he tends to stay tethered to where it's plugged

01:26:30 ◼   ► again. Batteries huh? I'm just pleased that you finally put in print that I made the

01:26:38 ◼   ► superior choice with the 6 Plus. If battery life like that is what you care

01:26:43 ◼   ► about I know you need that battery life because of you know your long commute

01:26:47 ◼   ► and all the time you spend using your phone at your at your workplace. Oh right

01:26:51 ◼   ► you don't do that anymore. I still make commutes I have a co-working space it

01:26:55 ◼   ► takes me it takes about an hour to get there okay and then I'm off power I

01:27:00 ◼   ► Well good. Yeah, I very frequently continue to need my iPhone all day.

01:27:04 ◼   ► Good for you. Well, do we have, what do you think? Are we done? Should we do

01:27:12 ◼   ► one more? Let's just do this quickly. Okay, because I mean this one we got to

01:27:19 ◼   ► talk about it now or we lose it. Forever hold our peace. Which is that this, or until

01:27:23 ◼   ► next year. This week is the eighth anniversary, or last week I guess, eighth

01:27:28 ◼   ► anniversary of the iPhone launch. We just had it. Which also means it's the first anniversary of

01:27:34 ◼   ► that nice episode of The Prompt where you talked about the iPhone launch. Which was a great episode.

01:27:40 ◼   ► Thank you. Put it in the show notes. I will do. That took eight hours to edit. That was the,

01:27:46 ◼   ► I would say, listening to that episode was great because I thought, "Oh my god, they did an episode

01:27:51 ◼   ► of The Incomparable that's about an Apple event. That's awesome!" I love that. I never thought of

01:27:55 ◼   ► - I'll give it that way.

01:27:56 ◼   ► - It's an analytical, you know,

01:27:59 ◼   ► it looks like a review,

01:28:00 ◼   ► except instead of a movie or a TV show,

01:28:02 ◼   ► it's a video of an Apple event.

01:28:05 ◼   ► Broke it down.

01:28:06 ◼   ► I loved it.

01:28:07 ◼   ► And that was so January 9th,

01:28:10 ◼   ► a few days ago as we record this,

01:28:11 ◼   ► it was the eighth anniversary of that.

01:28:12 ◼   ► The iPhone didn't ship until the summer.

01:28:14 ◼   ► So the actual eighth anniversary of the iPhone on the,

01:28:17 ◼   ► you know, being available as a product is a few months away.

01:28:21 ◼   ► And I wanted to mention that it is the eighth anniversary.

01:28:25 ◼   ► and as somebody who's been doing this for a while,

01:28:26 ◼   ► I also wanted to mention,

01:28:28 ◼   ► I'm in the audience there,

01:28:31 ◼   ► although unlike the iPod event,

01:28:32 ◼   ► you can't see me in the video.

01:28:33 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure I'm not visible in the video,

01:28:36 ◼   ► but I'm there somewhere at Macworld Expo.

01:28:40 ◼   ► So I may actually be up in one of the front rows

01:28:42 ◼   ► for that one.

01:28:43 ◼   ► And at that time we weren't doing a live blog yet.

01:28:47 ◼   ► So I was sending instant messages back to the office

01:28:49 ◼   ► and Peter Cohen was turning it into a live news story.

01:28:52 ◼   ► So we would just write it as a news story,

01:28:54 ◼   ► but just keep updating it as everything got announced.

01:28:57 ◼   ► Because in back in those days,

01:28:59 ◼   ► live blogging wasn't quite the thing that it became.

01:29:03 ◼   ► And then I just wanted to mention

01:29:05 ◼   ► that there was a few days later,

01:29:08 ◼   ► I got to touch the iPhone. (laughs)

01:29:12 ◼   ► I got to use a sample.

01:29:15 ◼   ► And I remember that vividly

01:29:17 ◼   ► because I remember picking it up

01:29:20 ◼   ► and being surprised at how dense it felt.

01:29:23 ◼   ► and at the resolution of that screen,

01:29:26 ◼   ► which was, although not impressive now,

01:29:29 ◼   ► because it's not a retina display by any stretch,

01:29:32 ◼   ► it was roughly double what used to be

01:29:35 ◼   ► the standard max screen resolution,

01:29:38 ◼   ► which was 72 DPI, and that was in the 140 DPI range.

01:29:41 ◼   ► So it was a denser screen than Apple had ever made before.

01:29:46 ◼   ► So everything looked better,

01:29:48 ◼   ► and the stuff that worked worked really well.

01:29:51 ◼   ► And then there were the apps that you would touch on

01:29:53 ◼   ► and realized that it was just a screenshot

01:29:55 ◼   ► and that app didn't exist.

01:29:57 ◼   ► But that was a, there was a great like six month period

01:30:01 ◼   ► where I was one of a handful of people

01:30:03 ◼   ► who could say that they had actually held an iPhone

01:30:05 ◼   ► and used it for a little bit.

01:30:06 ◼   ► And don't think I didn't point that out

01:30:09 ◼   ► at every possible occurrence.

01:30:11 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I've used the iPhone.

01:30:12 ◼   ► Really?

01:30:13 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

01:30:15 ◼   ► - Oh, you know me.

01:30:16 ◼   ► - Good times.

01:30:17 ◼   ► Good times.

01:30:19 ◼   ► Anyway, that's a classic event.

01:30:20 ◼   ► is sort of the pinnacle of the Steve Jobs keynote. People should listen to episode 30 of The Prompt

01:30:25 ◼   ► because that's a great breakdown on that event. And that was a really, that was a cool thing to

01:30:30 ◼   ► see. It was amazing to be in the audience and hear the people tittering about the revolutionary

01:30:38 ◼   ► mobile phone, widescreen iPod with touch controls, breakthrough internet communicator as people got

01:30:44 ◼   ► it, right? Before he said, "You're getting it." People are like, "Oh, I see what he's doing here."

01:30:48 ◼   ► and there was people you could hear the audience just sort of like starting to come together and

01:30:52 ◼   ► yeah that was pretty cool so that was a good moment eight years ago where does the time go

01:30:57 ◼   ► amazing and one question for you about this then how did that come about you getting to go and

01:31:03 ◼   ► see it then because obviously it was during macworld so apple were around yeah they had

01:31:07 ◼   ► They had a room at Macworld Expo.

01:31:12 ◼   ► And it was often the mezzanine somewhere

01:31:21 ◼   ► and you'd go down a ways and then there was Apple people

01:31:24 ◼   ► that you couldn't pass unless you had the approval

01:31:26 ◼   ► and then you went back there.

01:31:27 ◼   ► So it was like, come by on Wednesday after or Thursday,

01:31:32 ◼   ► I think it was the last day,

01:31:33 ◼   ► come by on Thursday in the afternoon

01:31:35 ◼   ► and we'll have a briefing.

01:31:37 ◼   ► And it was, you know, I don't even remember who it was.

01:31:40 ◼   ► It might've been like Greg Joswiak or somebody.

01:31:43 ◼   ► I don't think Phil Schiller was there.

01:31:45 ◼   ► He might've been, but it was like two or three Apple,

01:31:47 ◼   ► it was like a PR person and a couple of Apple execs

01:31:50 ◼   ► and an iPhone.

01:31:51 ◼   ► And it was spread out over the week

01:31:53 ◼   ► because I suspect they only had a couple

01:31:55 ◼   ► that were functional that you could actually,

01:31:58 ◼   ► a member of the press could actually touch.

01:32:00 ◼   ► And, but they invited me in and toward the end of the week

01:32:02 ◼   ► and I got to use it and write a story about it

01:32:06 ◼   ► and have that in my mind of like,

01:32:07 ◼   ► this is what this device is gonna be like

01:32:09 ◼   ► for those months when we had no idea.

01:32:12 ◼   ► And it's funny to look back to my story now,

01:32:14 ◼   ► because that was, you know, after my 10 minutes with it.

01:32:16 ◼   ► And the 10 minutes were tough

01:32:17 ◼   ► because they wanted me to use it

01:32:18 ◼   ► and also ask them questions.

01:32:20 ◼   ► And I found that I couldn't.

01:32:22 ◼   ► I found like I would start using it and I'd be like,

01:32:23 ◼   ► I don't even, I'd start asking a question

01:32:26 ◼   ► and then I would be tapping on things

01:32:28 ◼   ► and the question would just trail off

01:32:29 ◼   ► and I'd be like, guys, I don't think I can do this.

01:32:31 ◼   ► I don't think I can focus on you and focus on this thing.

01:32:34 ◼   ► It was pretty incredible.

01:32:36 ◼   ► That is the most I have ever felt like

01:32:40 ◼   ► I can't believe this technology exists

01:32:43 ◼   ► in my entire career of using technology.

01:32:47 ◼   ► That a product that looked and felt like that

01:32:50 ◼   ► was actually in my hands and not fictional.

01:32:54 ◼   ► It was like that.

01:32:56 ◼   ► It was pretty crazy.

01:32:57 ◼   ► - So where people think that you're actually the lucky one,

01:32:59 ◼   ► you're actually an unlucky person

01:33:01 ◼   ► because we all just imagined what it would be like

01:33:04 ◼   ► before we get it, but you, like,

01:33:08 ◼   ► you knew what it was like, right?

01:33:10 ◼   ► So I think it's probably worse for you

01:33:12 ◼   ► because you know what you're gonna be getting

01:33:15 ◼   ► in a couple of months time.

01:33:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh yeah, it was clear

01:33:20 ◼   ► what that product was gonna be.

01:33:22 ◼   ► It was clear.

01:33:23 ◼   ► It is funny now though that I look at the pictures

01:33:26 ◼   ► of the people looking at the one that was in like

01:33:28 ◼   ► the plastic tube and everybody's like,

01:33:32 ◼   ► "Oh, the phone, the phone."

01:33:33 ◼   ► And it was all theoretical.

01:33:35 ◼   ► And for me, it was never theoretical.

01:33:37 ◼   ► After I saw it, I had an idea and it was pretty crazy.

01:33:41 ◼   ► That was great.

01:33:42 ◼   ► That was a great thing.

01:33:44 ◼   ► It was, I'm glad that Apple did that

01:33:46 ◼   ► because everybody who touched that phone,

01:33:50 ◼   ► got to hold that phone, knew what was going on.

01:33:53 ◼   ► So that was really smart of them

01:33:54 ◼   ► because in hindsight now,

01:33:55 ◼   ► with some of the reporting we've got,

01:33:57 ◼   ► we know there weren't that many that functioned

01:33:59 ◼   ► and that they probably didn't function for very long.

01:34:01 ◼   ► So they didn't want you doing too much on it

01:34:03 ◼   ► 'cause probably after each briefing,

01:34:04 ◼   ► they had to reboot it and reset it

01:34:06 ◼   ► and get it back to a clean state

01:34:08 ◼   ► 'cause it was still under serious development.

01:34:10 ◼   ► But yeah, it was once you held it,

01:34:14 ◼   ► I mean, I remember it was warm and dense

01:34:18 ◼   ► and that the screen was so bright and clear

01:34:22 ◼   ► and that the, you know, that touchscreen

01:34:25 ◼   ► coming from a trio or something, that the touchscreen was so responsive, and that the

01:34:29 ◼   ► keyboard was autocorrecting and things like that.

01:34:32 ◼   ► Just, yeah, it was pretty amazing.

01:34:35 ◼   ► See Elastic Scrolling, man, gets me every time.

01:34:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:34:38 ◼   ► You know, the bit in the video where you could hear audible gasps when he gets to the end

01:34:42 ◼   ► of the, I think he's in the music app.

01:34:45 ◼   ► It's called "Santenbot" and it bounces back.

01:34:48 ◼   ► Yep.

01:34:49 ◼   ► Every time.

01:34:50 ◼   ► I still get chills watching that video.

01:34:51 ◼   ► If you've never, if you haven't seen or you've never seen the iPhone announcement, or you

01:34:57 ◼   ► haven't seen it since the original, you should watch it again because it's still every bit

01:35:01 ◼   ► as magical.

01:35:02 ◼   ► It's a classic.

01:35:03 ◼   ► In a weird way.

01:35:06 ◼   ► And also it holds new entertainment value now because of all the things that they're

01:35:11 ◼   ► doing which now look crazy.

01:35:13 ◼   ► Like how Steve's like, you know, he looks at the phone and he pulls down his glasses

01:35:17 ◼   ► and he holds it in one hand he's like just with one finger tapping to type you

01:35:22 ◼   ► know and it's like he has no idea how to use this keyboard yet and there's just

01:35:27 ◼   ► all these little nice little touches about it like that which makes it well

01:35:29 ◼   ► worth watching yeah plus Stan Stigman oh skip that bit even when we did the when

01:35:38 ◼   ► we did the iPhone episode we we all skip that bit skip the Stan Stigman yeah it's

01:35:44 ◼   ► the worst. And weird Eric Schmidt is in that too. Yeah I watched his bit and

01:35:48 ◼   ► the Yahoo guy is the best bit like the Yahoo guy he's like "hey maybe you can give me one of those" and he's like "hey go away"

01:35:55 ◼   ► don't call me we'll call you good luck thanks for the search engine or whatever

01:36:02 ◼   ► it is thanks for the weather thanks for the stocks widget bye Jerry

01:36:05 ◼   ► oh they gave the push email for free oh that's it push email revolutionary

01:36:11 ◼   ► I love that the CEO of the company providing the free things to get our device and then

01:36:18 ◼   ► to ask on stage.

01:36:20 ◼   ► Just no luck.

01:36:22 ◼   ► If you'd like to find the show notes for this week's episode, you should go to relay.fm/upgrades/18.

01:36:27 ◼   ► Thanks again to our sponsors for this week, lynda.com, stamps.com, and mail route.

01:36:32 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley.

01:36:33 ◼   ► I'm @imike.

01:36:34 ◼   ► I M-Y-K-E, and I am joined as always by the lovely Mr. Jason Snow.

01:36:38 ◼   ► He is @jsnell and writes the fantastic sixcolors.com.

01:36:43 ◼   ► We'll be back next week with another episode of Upgrade.

01:36:47 ◼   ► If you'd like to listen live, go to relay.fm/schedule

01:36:50 ◼   ► and it will give you all the information that you need.

01:36:53 ◼   ► Or you can follow our Twitter account,

01:36:54 ◼   ► which is @_upgradefm.

01:36:57 ◼   ► Jason always issues a lovely tweet

01:36:59 ◼   ► to let you know when we're gonna be recording.

01:37:02 ◼   ► Thank you so much for listening.

01:37:03 ◼   ► Until next time, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:37:05 ◼   ► - Goodbye, everybody.

01:37:06 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:37:10 ◼   ► [ Music ]